# Building pens with nail guns - nails too long? Staples?



## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

I finally did it, I bought a nailing compressor and guns so that I can put that pesky hammer down!
So far I'm pretty impressed with the framing nailer and how easy and fast it is to put up boards and panels etc.

My only issue is that it can't shoot nails that are < 2" long. I am planning to build a bunch of sheep panels this year like these so that I can rearrange my barn on the fly for lambing:
http://www.cps.gov.on.ca/english/sh4000/sh4831.htm

using 1x4 or 1x6 lumber, that means the sharp ends would be sticking out and that's the last thing I need in the barn.

I got the guns as a kit including framing, finish, brad and staple guns. I'm wondering if any of these other types of nails will do the job and not just pull right out.
I'm sure the brad and finish nails will just rip out, kind of leaning towards the stapler as it can fire 18ga 1 1/4" long staples, which I think I have seen used on pallets to pretty good effect?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I used to have panels like those, I liked to put doubled uprights on the end. Make sure both uprights are in place and nail from one side, then turn the panel over and nail the other side. Held much better and was a lot stiffer. I used all 1"x4"s....James


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

You could turn them over and bend over the points. They'll never come apart that way.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

We always bend the points over when we have to use too-long nails.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

Yeah I guess I could just bend them over but that kind of defeats the point of using the gun to shoot them in!
Maybe the doubled uprights would do the trick though and make the panels sturdier as mentioned.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

3 x 3/4" = 2.25"

Sounds just right for 2" ring shanks. Either double up all the uprights as Jwal10 suggested or use 2" material for the uprights.

WWW


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## GarrettandKaty (Jun 26, 2013)

Another option is to get a palm nailer, this would let you use whatever nail you like and not have to swing the hammer over and over. Unfortionatly it would mean spending more on another tool, Harbor freight has affordable palm nailers available.


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

Clinch them over, or shoot them in at a sharp angle, but not skimp in the nails as it would compromise the integrity of the building......


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

IF you do clinch the nails, do it with the grain, making sure to bend the nail at or below the surface so it doesn't drive the nail back making the boards loose. Clinched nails, many times, after years of use and shrinking wood will protrude and become a catch place for clothes and skin. I liked the smaller "finish" ring shank nails, not the common size with thicker shanks and heavy heads. Nailing from both sides and double end boards, sandwiching the horizontal boards makes a strong panel. I found I didn't need a brace board. On longer panels, I would use a shorter vertical in the middle, only covering the bottom 4 boards on a 5 board panel, saved some weight....James


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

OK.. here's the post that isn't like the others.. the guy that throws a wrench in it..

I've left nails behind and only use screws for everything now... I've been using Grip-Rite brand for all my building needs... 

You can get them in almost any 1/4" size variant you need.. 

Holds so much better than nails, and it's really easy to back the screws out if you ever want to take the item apart..


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2014)

simi-steading said:


> OK.. here's the post that isn't like the others.. the guy that throws a wrench in it..
> 
> I've left nails behind and only use screws for everything now... I've been using Grip-Rite brand for all my building needs...
> 
> ...


Started to post same thing but didn't .


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

simi-steading said:


> OK.. here's the post that isn't like the others.. the guy that throws a wrench in it..
> 
> I've left nails behind and only use screws for everything now... I've been using Grip-Rite brand for all my building needs...
> 
> ...


I too use screws quite a lot. I really like the ones with the star heads. I've never had one strip.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

logbuilder said:


> I too use screws quite a lot. I really like the ones with the star heads. I've never had one strip.


Buy DeWalt or Bosch driver tips and you will... Pretty sad when the bit that comes with the screws is better than a name brand tool... I did just buy a couple of Kobalt 1/4" drive torx bits and they are KILLER!!!... They even chuck up inside the drill without having to use the 1/4 drive bit... Best ever drivers I found for the drill... I was surprised.. I expected junk.

So far I'be put around 25 lbs of screws in our house project... I've been through some bits and stripped heads..


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

I used to always build with screws but I decided that nails are 1/4 the price, go in 4x faster, and can be kept in the magazine of the gun which is so much nicer than the pocket/mouthful of screws.

So Jwal, you say the finish nails, with the little tiny heads, actually work well for these panels? Because I have a finish nail gun too (34 degrees), and these nails are available in shorter lengths. 

I worried about them pulling out but they say the shank has most of the holding strength anyways. I went full head framing for my wind boards because they can get some serious wind forces on them.

Ditching the brace would get rid of the slowest part of the process (cutting angles on the brace). I was going to build these 5x5 for lambing pens and if they are successful I might make some longer ones for subdividing my corrals


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## Shoestringer (Oct 18, 2013)

Some staples hold surprisingly well, if they are coated in adhesive. Many are plated to resist corrosion. See what you can find to fit your stapler. I never thought they would be any good, but have done a lot of demolition and they hold well.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Yea, i'm gonna have to say *coated* staples are the way to go, in my opinion they hold better than nails on smaller wood. I just wouldnt use them for structural pieces as they can twist.


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

​All my barn penning is done with carriage bolts and red or white oak build it once and be done with it


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

I picked up a pack of 1000 1 1/4" plated staples today and gave a few test shots into some scrap lumber. I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the holding power of these little guys as well as the ease with which the gun knocks them in, considering how long and spindly they look. I would never get even one in with a hammer without bending it over!
I think I shot 50 and only used 10psi out of my 4 gallon pancake compressor tank.

I will try to find these coated staples and if they hold better than the plated ones then they should do the trick. Pretty neat stuff!


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## chuckhole (Mar 2, 2006)

Your framing nailer should be able to shoot as small as 6d nails (well, mine does and that is what I know).
If not, definitely go with staples. They are pretty awesome.
You want at least 60% of your fastener for holding power (including screws).
Something to think about is the climate you live in. Freezing of moisture in the wood causes fasteners to heave so twist or ring shank would be better. If not, use screws for all the reasons already mentioned.


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## Rectifier (Jun 12, 2011)

Had to look up the nail size, we always just used inches around here. 6d = 2" which is my shortest length for my gun.
Unfortunately 1x lumber is 3/4" so there would be 1/2" sticking through or clinched over which I hate. I think the staples will work well though.

The nails I picked up for the wind boards and framing are the best gun nails I ever saw, 3 1/4" full head, twist, coated. Supplier showed me a sample and I went yep, that's the nail for me, gimme a whole box, SOLD!
Have to go to a specialty supplier for anything other than cheap smooth clip heads here.


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## chuckhole (Mar 2, 2006)

Rectifier said:


> Had to look up the nail size, we always just used inches around here. 6d = 2" which is my shortest length for my gun.
> Unfortunately 1x lumber is 3/4" so there would be 1/2" sticking through or clinched over which I hate. I think the staples will work well though.
> 
> The nails I picked up for the wind boards and framing are the best gun nails I ever saw, 3 1/4" full head, twist, coated. Supplier showed me a sample and I went yep, that's the nail for me, gimme a whole box, SOLD!
> Have to go to a specialty supplier for anything other than cheap smooth clip heads here.


Check into corral boards. Home Depot and Lowes sell them in 8' and 16' lengths. They are rough cut 1"x6" boards so they really are 1" x 6". Plus they are less expensive. No problem for 2" nails. Just a thought.......but I would probably go staples too.

I too delayed in getting air nailers.......until I got tennis elbow swinging a hammer. Took almost 4 months to heal.

Now I have 4 nail guns. Never go back.


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## Beulah_Land (Mar 24, 2014)

With regard to nails for pneumatic framing nailers, for best results, screw (twisted) nails and ring shank nails should not be considered interchangeable. These "deformed shank" nails are designed to resist "backing out" due to changes in temperature and moisture content.

Screw shank nails are designed for denser, drier woods. This type nail depends on the resistance of the firmer material to "screw" the nail into the wood. The ring-shank nails work best in softer, moist woods. The wood fibers actually open up and then close back around the rings.

I cannot think of any major nail manufacturer who does not "coat" their nails today. The coating is a very thin layer of a thermo-plastic polymer. The friction from driving the nail melts this coating. As it cools, it bonds with the wood fibers increasing the holding power of the nail. 

For exterior purposes, electro-galvanized nails can still be found in some flea markets, yard sales, etc... They should NOT be used in today's treated lumber. The galvanization is a "sacrificial" metal that delays corrosion of the nail. The newer wood preservatives are highly caustic and will completely dissolve an electro-galvanized nail in very short order. The ideal fastener for this application is stainless steel. They are quite pricey and harder to find. A middle of the road alternative is a "hot dipped" galvanized nail. The galvanizing zinc layer is much thicker and will delay failure of the nail for far longer than the electro-galvanized nail.

With the exception of stainless steel, smooth, ring shank and screw shank collated nails are commonly found in all the big box stores around the country. Be careful...not all nails are created equal. For structural work, try to use a shank diameter of .131" . You can get away with .120" diameter nails for subfloors, tread way boards, etc... Also watch the box counts. There are "consumer" packs and contractor packs. The price per thousand on the consumer pack will be much higher. 

It is also worth noting that there are three major categories of gun nails for "stick nailers". The difference is in the angle in which they are collated. A common type is the 33 degree "modified head" (commonly called clip head or D head). Paslode and Senco brand nailers commonly use this type. A second common type is the 22 degree full round head. Duo-fast and Hitachi are two brands that commonly use these. The third major type is the 28 degree modified head. This used to be peculiar to the Bostich brand tools - but I expect that there are other brands that will drive these nails as well (Max, Apach, etc...).

I would be remiss if I didn't make a pitch for safety glasses here. These tools work by using compressed air to ram a tempered piece of steel onto the end of a nail that is made from scrap metals that have been recycled. There will be tiny shards of steel flying around. In addition to wood chips, the plastic, paper or steel used to collate the nails also gets thrown around. Don't be the folks who are used as an example of why you should wear safety glasses!

Okay, I reckon I'm finished. Please feel free to ask if you have any questions.  (We haven't even touched roofing nailers, finish nailers, coil nailers or staplers yet!) For those of us who have used these things for years, it is not much of a mystery. I have to believe it is a bit daunting for a new user.


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## jamesdaclark (Aug 2, 2012)

I use a stapler for tons of jobs. Mine has a 1/2" crown and shoots from 1" to 2 1/2" staples. A box of 5000 staples is around $40 and lasts forever. I have used staples for nearly ten years now and have NEVER had anything come apart. The Senco brand staple I buy are galvy with adhesive. I have several other nail guns also, but for light construction jobs the stapler is by far my favorite.


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