# Castrating 2 year old bull...



## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I have a two year old Brangus bull. He is a roamer, I am having an issue keeping him on our 175 acre ranch. He bred our cows last year, and we have since moved them off to another ranch. We got him as a 2 month old and I planned on having cows or heifers this year, but things didn't work out that way. Since this bull is not going to be breeding, and I am not going to butcher him, is castration at the age of two out of the question? 

I spoke to our vet clinic this morning and they do castrate bulls at this age. But I want him sedated, they only want to do a block. This is a large bull, he is 1400 pounds and still growing. Can they really just block him and castrate him safely that way? Seems dangerous to me. They do have a tilt squeeze chute...but still seems he should be sedated. 

Any help would be appreciated.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Yes, they can do a block and castrate him. 
It is a very quick procedure and you face more possible complications by knocking him completely out, IME.

Why are you keeping him if not as breeding stock or for beef? 
Keeping a 'pet' steer is an expensive proposition.
They can live 15 years or better.


ETA: Castrating him at this point is no guarantee he wont still go through fences.
He already knows how to do that and he wont be getting any smaller or smarter.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

We had planned to have a small herd by now but we had a bad year last year in business. Things are better, but prices are way up in our area for cattle and finding the right cows for beef calves is easy, but not cheap! We bought our bull as a two month old orphan and I hand raised him. We boarded a small herd of cows last year and our bull has two lovely calves on the ground this summer, but they aren't our cows, so no one for him to breed again. I have no problem selling beef calves, but butchering my bull isn't something I am interested in doing. I had hoped he would stop trying to leave by castrating him since we don't have any girls around. We can fortify our fence line, we know where he was going through...but if he is still a bull he will find a way. I would hope he may not be as adamant about leaving if he was a steer.

I know keeping him is maybe silly, but it is what it is! Even my husband can't see eating him or seeking him for slaughter...we are kind of attached to Norman!


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Well okay then. 

You are certainly not alone in the ranks of "pet steer" owners here on HT.
As long as you do realize that it is a long commitment you are choosing and not based on best business practices.
You could likely sell this young bull and use the money to better your herd.

I wont tell you how many bull calves I have hand-raised. 
There is always another just around the corner. 

But if you are doing a hobby/pet thing then that is a choice I can respect for what it is.
I commend you for your decision to have the vet come and castrate.
It goes really quick, there is not a lot to it, and Norman will be fine.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

This is my only cow. I actually am a horse owner, I do a ton of rescue and currently have 20 that range in age from 4 weeks to 30 years, all are staying. I take in the worst abuse/neglect/starvation cases. The ones that have no place else to go. A few are permanently lame, a few come to me already rideable, the rest I break and train in dressage, eventing, trail riding, reining, or cutting. My bull is a lucky boy to have landed here! He will be a long term resident, and we can afford him. I would love to keep him a bull, he is really a good looking boy, but not without cows for him to breed....

Thank you completely for understanding. Norm is a real sweet boy, I would like to keep him as a steer, at least he won't be longing for a girlfriend...I think he won't be anyway!


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## idigbeets (Sep 3, 2011)

So you're not breeding him, and not eating him.

Sell him. Take the money and buy a cow/calf pair, sell off the calf when it is weaned for nice profit, and buy a heifer or w/e you can afford. That is if you want cows again.. otherwise sell him and have a nice vacation.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Norman is sick and tired of living with horses, he's looking for something that goes moo. Selling him is the only choice, you will get tired of mending fences...Topside


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I did sell him at market on Monday this week. He is a two year old, very good looking, 1400 lb Red Brangus bull. Nice breeding on him, and he throws perfect low birth weight calves. Price of bulls is sky high, and he sold for a lot of money....to a slaughter buyer. So I bought him back. My husband and I are funny with things like this. If this was a beef calf we had raised with the intent of selling, we would have no problem. But this is OUR bull, we named him and took care of him and he is dog gentle with us (of course now that he is so big and able to breed, we stay on our side of the corral, but Norman still huffs at me for head rubs and ear scratches, which I give him through the steel tube rails) so we sold him to give him a chance to go to a cattle operation as a herd sire, but not as a steak! 

We could have put a little money in the bank, but that wasn't our desire. It isn't that we can't afford a cow/calf pair, though where I live they go for a lot right now, it is that Norman is a part of our ranch, and I would rather make him a steer and have him here, than have the money in the bank and/or a steak on the table. A cow will only be open for so long, then Norman will be bored and will travel, and I can't have him do that. He did it once, that's why I am looking for a solution


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

topside1 said:


> Norman is sick and tired of living with horses, he's looking for something that goes moo. Selling him is the only choice, you will get tired of mending fences...Topside


Norman is a little bored with the horses! He lived with my neighbor through the winter and bred his heifers. But then he travelled to another neighbors, and that was bad....we got him back home and are creating a solution for him by castrating him. I should have said, I DO plan on buying a cow for him to hang out with. Or two. But I can't right today, so for now, this is what we need to do. 

I do appreciate your input, this is a choice for us as much as for him. It is either castrate, or he will sell to a slaughter buyer as a bull and we aren't interested in doing that to him...


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

If you sell him to a private buyer as a breeding bull, what could be better than that? He'd have won the cow lotto!

Please stop petting him on the head, could be quite dangerous!


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Thanks for the advice. I had heard about not petting his head, so I actually don't do that...I do rub his ears and his neck though. I am extremely cautious around him, he is huge and bulls are so unpredictable. 

If I could find a buyer that would use him as a herd sire I would definitely sell him. Craigslist is the only way I know of though, and people are not what they represent themselves to be on craigslist from my experience. I probably could post him at my feed store, maybe I would find a buyer there....he did sell for almost 1700 for slaughter, I couldn't do it when I found out that it was a slaughter buyer though and I backed out. So, what would a fair price range be for him to a private buyer? I would be interested in doing that.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Being a wonderer and two years old he may not change even after being castrated. He may still roam and trash fences just because hes is bored. I have seen it happen several times in older bulls.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Being a wonderer and two years old he may not change even after being castrated. He may still roam and trash fences just because hes is bored. I have seen it happen several times in older bulls.


I sincerely would sell him as a bull if I could find a good buyer, one that is actually going to use him as a sire and not as a steak! I don't want him to roam and get hurt, or killed, and we do have strong fencing on our perimeter...but one small place was compromised and sure enough, he found that one spot and went through it. We shored it up, but I worry....


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

I am worried that you will have him castrated and he still charges through fences. , etc.Then you are short on options.
If he is an intact bull, he has the opportunity to be someone's herd sire. Advertise at feed mill, Cattle Breeders newsletter and get the word out.

If you want to keep him, fence busting and all, a cattle chute is a safe way to castrate.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

haypoint said:


> I am worried that you will have him castrated and he still charges through fences. , etc.Then you are short on options.
> If he is an intact bull, he has the opportunity to be someone's herd sire. Advertise at feed mill, Cattle Breeders newsletter and get the word out.
> 
> If you want to keep him, fence busting and all, a cattle chute is a safe way to castrate.


If i castrate him and he still fence hops, then I have a castrated fence hopper that I can't sell. Thanks for the advice. I will post him at my feed stores around town and see what kind of newsletters I can find to post him in as well.


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## momagoat61 (Mar 30, 2008)

posting at the feed store or the BBQ pit, it doesn't matter, The bull if sold private or sold at the auction the results at the end will be the same. Sold as a hire sire will not be long term for the bull. Being a hire sire isn't a long term thing. We breed and raise beef cattle and we calve out about 65-70 cows anually and we have two black angus bull's, they are regisitered and are low birth weight bull's and we only keep the same bull's for no more then 6 to 7 years at the most.


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## idigbeets (Sep 3, 2011)

So... you want a big pet. Get a Great Pyrenees and let this bull do his job for someone else, or become freezer beef. I don't get why people want domesticated cattle that do nothing but COST MONEY to maintain.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

A bull is the absolute worst pet you could choose. Norman is in his prime, he is full of hormones and lust, and he can smell cows a long ways off which could easily turn to rage via all that pent up frustration. Even if you get him castrated, he will be bored and lonesome for the company of his own kind. And, he may or may not give up fence busting as a hobby. 

If you could ask Norman whether he would prefer an all expense paid trip to the slaughterhouse, his current level of frustration, or just a long, dull, meaningless life, he just might choose the slaughterhouse!

However, he is in his prime and should be working in someone's herd if he is truly a good specimen of his breed and produces good calves. Sell him to someone who will use him for the purpose he was born to, please. Get his health work done and market him. You will be doing him a favor, he would thank you if he could.


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

aoconnor1 said:


> I did sell him at market on Monday this week. He is a two year old, very good looking, 1400 lb Red Brangus bull. Nice breeding on him, and he throws perfect low birth weight calves. Price of bulls is sky high, and he sold for a lot of money....to a slaughter buyer. So I bought him back. My husband and I are funny with things like this. If this was a beef calf we had raised with the intent of selling, we would have no problem. But this is OUR bull, we named him and took care of him and he is dog gentle with us (of course now that he is so big and able to breed, we stay on our side of the corral, but Norman still huffs at me for head rubs and ear scratches, which I give him through the steel tube rails) so we sold him to give him a chance to go to a cattle operation as a herd sire, but not as a steak!
> 
> We could have put a little money in the bank, but that wasn't our desire. It isn't that we can't afford a cow/calf pair, though where I live they go for a lot right now, it is that Norman is a part of our ranch, and I would rather make him a steer and have him here, than have the money in the bank and/or a steak on the table. A cow will only be open for so long, then Norman will be bored and will travel, and I can't have him do that. He did it once, that's why I am looking for a solution



:smack :flameproofundies: :umno::hair:shrug::doh::frypan::bash:


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

where are you AConner? I'm gonna sell your bull for'ya


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

aoconnor1 said:


> ............they do castrate bulls at this age. But I want him sedated, they only want to do a block. This is a large bull, he is 1400 pounds and still growing. .........


If you get him castrated, the block is much safer for him and it is much easier on him. There is little chance of losing him, and large animals can break themselves thrashing as they come out of a total anesthetic. It's dangerous and the vets don't like to do it unless there is no way around it.

They can chemically immobilize him and then they give him the reversing shot and he will just walk away with no after effects.

The reason that you can't sell him as a herd bull is becasue he is too big. Herd bulls are small young bulls who won't injure a cow's spine when he breeds her. If the mature bulls are high enough quality, they are isolated from teh cows and used for semen collection for AI.


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## AngusLover (Jan 12, 2014)

Is this bull registered stock?


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

oregon woodsmok said:


> If you get him castrated, the block is much safer for him and it is much easier on him. There is little chance of losing him, and large animals can break themselves thrashing as they come out of a total anesthetic. It's dangerous and the vets don't like to do it unless there is no way around it.
> 
> They can chemically immobilize him and then they give him the reversing shot and he will just walk away with no after effects.
> 
> *The reason that you can't sell him as a herd bull is becasue he is too big. Herd bulls are small young bulls who won't injure a cow's spine when he breeds her. * If the mature bulls are high enough quality, they are isolated from teh cows and used for semen collection for AI.


Ummm, no, wrong. "Herd bull" or "herd sire" simply means one bull with a harem of cows, and usually the top bull or favorite bull gets this privilege. A larger operation would have multiple groups. A "junior herd bull" often starts out by working cleanup on a set of AI'd females, then his performance and progeny determine if he will someday move up to be a "herd sire". It varies by individual, some bulls will simply have better "technique" than others. I have heard of bulls in their teens still out breeding cows successfully, and I have heard of bulls getting pulled out their first breeding season because they were rough/clumsy with the cows.

The reason to collect a bull for AI is because he is a top quality individual whose genetics should be widely used for breed improvement, not because he is too clumsy to breed the cows on his own.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

I sincerely appreciate all of the help. Here are a few things that may have been overlooked in my posts:

1. I usually have open heifers or cows here that are boarders on our pastures, this year they were moved to a different ranch with a different bull..they weren't my cows, I was boarding them while the owner secured her own place. 

2. Norman is a proven sire. He has 2 bull calves on the ground, they were both low birth weight and are very nice looking calves. While Norman is not a registered bull, he does come from very nice stock. If he was of mediocre breeding I would have castrated him as a young calf. Since he was such a nice bull though, and I thought I would have cows of our own this season for Norman to breed, I kept him a bull. We want to have a small beef calf operation.

3. I will not sell Norm to a slaughter buyer. That isn't something we are willing to do.

4.No, he isn't a pet, he is a working bull but has no cows right now, and he roamed to a neighbors place who thankfully needed his cows bred. That was after he bred the cows here that were moved to the other ranch. I have him back because the property being leased by my neighbor for his cows was sold and he had to move them. So Norman came home.

5. I would prefer leaving him a bull and buying cows/heifers for our ranch operation. Right now the prices are sky high for a buyer. To buy as many cows as I would need to keep Norm home, it would be much more than I could afford right now. That's not to say that I am not looking for good cows, but only that I can't buy the number of cows all at one time that would be needed to keep him here. 

6. I researched castration before I considered it. I would castrate him and then could buy a couple of bred cows for him to hang out with. He is a great one for young calves, he is very protective of them and was a fine babysitter for the calves who were here when the boarded cows calved. If he were castrated and could be content with a few cow pals, I would be happy for him.

7. Our BEST option is finding a herd for him to go live with. I live in vast cattle country in North Central Texas, and I would assume a ranch somewhere around me could use Norman. But other than posting flyers, which may or may not be seen, I am unsure of how to go about advertising my bull for sale or lease..

Anyway, I appreciate all of the feedback, and am still looking at all possibilities, except slaughter. I doubt Norman would prefer being slaughtered over hanging out being a lazy steer for his lifetime. He is a good, quiet boy, he talks to me each time he sees me (I feed him, he likes me!). And...yes, we are quite fond of him.

Thanks for listening!


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Why not offer him to a small farmer to use on their farm while you get money for your herd. Heck, I would love to use your bull for 2 years and then you come back and get him. You could come and visit all you wanted. Some small farmer getting started will help you if you will look around. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

idigbeets said:


> So... you want a big pet. Get a Great Pyrenees and let this bull do his job for someone else, or become freezer beef. I don't get why people want domesticated cattle that do nothing but COST MONEY to maintain.


I don't have any desire to have a "big pet". I already have 20 of those...all rescued horses. I also already own a Great Pyrenees, he is a great stock guard and protector of the chickens.

Thanks though.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Why not offer him to a small farmer to use on their farm while you get money for your herd. Heck, I would love to use your bull for 2 years and then you come back and get him. You could come and visit all you wanted. Some small farmer getting started will help you if you will look around.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


That is a great suggestion!!! I will look into this.

Thanks!


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

rambotex said:


> where are you AConner? I'm gonna sell your bull for'ya


Honestly, if you know a ranch that would use him, fine. But if it is to a slaughter buyer, no thanks. 

I came here honestly seeking help and a solution....one that I come to in a smart way. We own a working ranch, a working HORSE ranch. When we bought it we had cattle, then we had a seriously bad hit in our business and I sold my herd including our first bull. Then we had a small herd of borrowed cattle to keep our ag exemption, it was from that herd that my bull was a bummer calf and I took him and raised him. It wasn't intended that we end up in this position, our plan for this ranch was running cattle as well as horses, but not a huge herd. A 10 cow/calf pair plus the one bull herd. We have a good bull, we were trying not to lose that, but if it has to be that we castrate him to keep him here, I am willing to do that rather than sell him to slaughter. My choice? I would choose to have my Black Angus herd back, but I don't, and this decision to do anything but have cattle is difficult at best, dream losing at worst. Yes, there are other bulls, no, they won't be THIS bull. And we happen to have wanted to at least be able to retain the animal and use him as a herd support if not a herd sire. 

Sorry to vent a bit, this is hard. We are ranchers who took a bad couple year hit. Not a lifetime hit, just a couple years. But it set back our plans and we are trying to at least keep some of them intact. No pun intended. Aside for all of that, my top two horses died in horrific ways within 6 months of each other last year. So...am I holding on to something that maybe I oughta let go? Probably. But am I gonna lose him, too? Not if I can help it! Even if it to sell him or lease him for a herd other than mine, he will still be alive anyway.


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## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

idigbeets said:


> So... you want a big pet. Get a Great Pyrenees and let this bull do his job for someone else, or become freezer beef. I don't get why people want domesticated cattle that do nothing but COST MONEY to maintain.


I don't get why people don't respect others decisions what they do with their own livestock !!!


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

ufo_chris said:


> I don't get why people don't respect others decisions what they do with their own livestock !!!


Because she came here asking for advice. She was given quite a bit of good advice by people in the cattle business who took the time to read about her situation and gave advice based on sound business principles. 

She chooses to ignore that advice, which is her prerogative, but should not then wonder why people get annoyed when that good advice gets brushed aside. She says she had a bad hit to her business in the past. I don't know if that had to do with making decisions based on emotion instead of logic, but most of the advice she's been given would help to avoid additional hits to her business, or at least her pocketbook. I wish her well.


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Yes Chris it is the owners decision, however whenever the owner asks for ideas, opinions & recommendations well that's what they will get free of charge and quite a variety....Ask a question and you will receive many answers....I used to be a pet guy, but eventually even I grown out of that and have recognized livestock's many other values...Topside


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Good luck Norman! Got to go, my worklist is getting longer and longer, but if anyone wants my opinion I've got a wheelbarrow full.....Topside


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## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

We'll...op asked about advise about castrating ,even explained why the do not wanted to slaughter the bull which in my opinion she didn't need to do. But she did say why ,so while it helped for people to give them other ideas ,ie sell or lease as herd sire, she didn't need to hear people keep telling her they don't understand why they won't slaughter.
Anyways.....A.,I would not be surprised if the bull stays if u only give him one or two cows. Mine seems quite content even after they are bred,its a lot of being with their own kind too. And especially if u don't have any neighbors cows in heat ,he just may stay .


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Gravytrain said:


> Because she came here asking for advice. She was given quite a bit of good advice by people in the cattle business who took the time to read about her situation and gave advice based on sound business principles.
> 
> She chooses to ignore that advice, which is her prerogative, but should not then wonder why people get annoyed when that good advice gets brushed aside. She says she had a bad hit to her business in the past. I don't know if that had to do with making decisions based on emotion instead of logic, but most of the advice she's been given would help to avoid additional hits to her business, or at least her pocketbook. I wish her well.


I don't know what makes you think I ignored anything! I needed a solution BESIDES SLAUGHTER, and have been given many good ideas that I am looking into. That is all. The only advice given that I won't do is slaughter, everything else is on the table and being researched and looked into.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

topside1 said:


> Yes Chris it is the owners decision, however whenever the owner asks for ideas, opinions & recommendations well that's what they will get free of charge and quite a variety....Ask a question and you will receive many answers....I used to be a pet guy, but eventually even I grown out of that and have recognized livestock's many other values...Topside


I grew out of it a long time ago as well. I only want to make the best, informed, decision for this bull that I can, without slaughtering him. I sincerely appreciate all of the good advice...this is a long term decision that only We and our bull will have to live with, the best decision for him will be made and followed through with, I do promise you that!


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Gravytrain said:


> Because she came here asking for advice. She was given quite a bit of good advice by people in the cattle business who took the time to read about her situation and gave advice based on sound business principles.
> 
> She chooses to ignore that advice, which is her prerogative, but should not then wonder why people get annoyed when that good advice gets brushed aside. She says she had a bad hit to her business in the past. I don't know if that had to do with making decisions based on emotion instead of logic, but most of the advice she's been given would help to avoid additional hits to her business, or at least her pocketbook. I wish her well.


Also, our ranch only took a hit because our large construction company took a heavy hit almost 3 years ago now. We have recovered a lot, but not all the way, and finances are still somewhat tight. We own a large industrial construction outfit...the ranch stayed intact except for the cattle, those were sold off. Norman stayed because he had a job at the neighbors


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## bja105 (Aug 25, 2009)

We might be able to help more if we knew where the bull was. Fill out your profile!
If my heifer was a year older, and you were close, I could find a way to entertain a bull. When she gets older, and I have a few more cows, I will be looking to borrow a bull.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

bja105 said:


> We might be able to help more if we knew where the bull was. Fill out your profile!
> If my heifer was a year older, and you were close, I could find a way to entertain a bull. When she gets older, and I have a few more cows, I will be looking to borrow a bull.


Hi! I am in North Central Texas, about 40 miles west of Fort Worth. Wish you lived near, Norm might be a happy bull...


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## bja105 (Aug 25, 2009)

Put some stamps on him, take him to the post office.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

bja105 said:


> Put some stamps on him, take him to the post office.


Good thought


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

aoconnor1 said:


> Hi! I am in North Central Texas, about 40 miles west of Fort Worth. Wish you lived near, Norm might be a happy bull...


Stephenville/Glen Rose? you should be able to go to the local feed store or vet clinic and find someone that wants a young bull. lease him out for 1/2 a beef.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

rambotex said:


> Stephenville/Glen Rose? you should be able to go to the local feed store or vet clinic and find someone that wants a young bull. lease him out for 1/2 a beef.


I am north of Weatherford a little ways. I think I am going to offer him for sale and put up fliers in all of the local feed stores. I know some of the big ranchers around also, I will be talking to them too. I guess I would maybe like to see if they have any heifers for sale before I sell him...but if not I will let him go. 

I DO appreciate all of the good advice and help I have gotten. Put lots of ideas together in my mind.

What area are you in?


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Good Luck and Thanks for the entertaining post.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Allen W said:


> Good Luck and Thanks for the entertaining post.


Yes, it's amazing. I asked a question about castrating at age 2 and out of all the responses, only one was an answer to my question. The rest were all opinions on my having the bull, keeping the bull, selling the bull, or eating the bull. Not about what my question was to begin with, and the question was the only information I needed.

The end result is: he is getting castrated Tuesday. 

I defended mine and my husbands desire to keep this cow. I should have simply said "IT'S NONE OF ANYONE'S BUSINESS, JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION AT HAND" !!

Lesson learned, and more questions from me won't be happening here!


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Yes, you did ask a question in your original post. In the same post, you also shared the answer from your vet's office. Sounds like you are following the vet's suggestion?

Not too many people castrate a bull of that age and size, and very few people keep a bull for sentimental reasons, so it's little wonder that you got other suggestions.


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## Gravytrain (Mar 2, 2013)

aoconnor1 said:


> I defended mine and my husbands desire to keep this cow. I should have simply said "IT'S NONE OF ANYONE'S BUSINESS, JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION AT HAND" !!
> 
> Lesson learned, and more questions from me won't be happening here!


Yes, sorry, you're right. You wanted to know if your vet was competent and whether his procedure of using a block instead of general anesthesia is a valid one. While I don't know your vet, it is standard operating procedure. Bulls of any age can be castrated. If you trust the opinions of nameless, faceless individuals over the recommendations of your own vet, I recommend you find a new vet.

I wish you luck with your pet steer. May he have a long, productive life.:goodjob:


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

aoconnor1 said:


> I defended mine and my husbands desire to keep this cow. I should have simply said "IT'S NONE OF ANYONE'S BUSINESS, JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION AT HAND" !!


It's not a cow it's a bull soon to be a steer. Grandpa's rules were you don't count the bulls with the cows, just one of those little things that sticks with you.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Gravytrain said:


> Yes, sorry, you're right. You wanted to know if your vet was competent and whether his procedure of using a block instead of general anesthesia is a valid one. While I don't know your vet, it is standard operating procedure. Bulls of any age can be castrated. If you trust the opinions of nameless, faceless individuals over the recommendations of your own vet, I recommend you find a new vet.
> 
> I wish you luck with your pet steer. May he have a long, productive life.:goodjob:


My vet and I have a very good working relationship, and I trust him completely. But I don't trust that castration is the very best thing in this situation, so while I did need the answer, I also appreciate that advice. I am in turmoil over this, but needed to hear what everyone said. I should have just kept my mouth shut, kept to the question at hand, and been done...

I will hold off a week or so on castrating him, that will give me a fair shot at finding a ranch around me that can use him. 

Thank you...


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Allen W said:


> It's not a cow it's a bull soon to be a steer. Grandpa's rules were you don't count the bulls with the cows, just one of those little things that sticks with you.


I was using the general cattle term for anything that is cattle...Cow. I know quite well that a cow and a bull are two separate things, but the term cow was in reference to cattle, not gender. 

Thank you for the correction, I won't miss-reference it again.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

G. Seddon said:


> Yes, you did ask a question in your original post. In the same post, you also shared the answer from your vet's office. Sounds like you are following the vet's suggestion?
> 
> Not too many people castrate a bull of that age and size, and very few people keep a bull for sentimental reasons, so it's little wonder that you got other suggestions.


See, I don't know what age is Too old. I needed to hear what others opinions were, it just didn't need to get personal. Advice is advice until it becomes personal, then it is meddling. I just needed answers and solutions, not ugly attitudes and know it all mentalities. 

I will hold off a week and see what I can do. Maybe a ranch around here will pick him up, I don't know. But I will give it another week and see.

Thank you, I appreciate all of the actual advice....


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

rambotex said:


> Stephenville/Glen Rose? you should be able to go to the local feed store or vet clinic and find someone that wants a young bull. lease him out for 1/2 a beef.


I didn't think to ask my vet if they know anyone interested in leasing or purchasing the bull. Thanks for the thought, I am going to follow up on it tomorrow morning. I appreciate the help....


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

Most ranchers are not interested in using a non-virgin bull because of trych. In some states, it is even illegal to buy a non-virgin bull with the intent to use him as a herdsire. Just something to think about.


Tex


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Tex- said:


> Most ranchers are not interested in using a non-virgin bull necause of trych. In some states, it is even illegal to buy a non-virgin bull for the intent to use him as a herdsire. Just something to think about.
> 
> 
> Tex


Thank you for this information. I need to research and ask my vet about this...


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

Tex makes a good point, not that Norman really cares, but thought I'd post a quick link that describes the disease so other homesteaders may learn....Topside

http://osufacts.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-7271/VTMD-9134pod.pdf


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

I had a fence jumping steer here once, that problem was short-lived....Good luck Tuesday and beyond Norman...Topside


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

It would seem that there is a test available to determine if this disease is present. If my bull is tested and is clean, why wouldn't a ranch want him for a breeding program? He turns two years old this month, he is certainly young enough to be a herd sire for a few years or longer. The cows we used to keep after our herd was sold off were with the same bull for years...they are Brown Swiss are currently with a black angus bull, while the brown Swiss bull is with the black angus cows. But the two bulls have been used for those two herds for many years...the brown Swiss bull is 11 and still breeding.

Just curious about what happens should my bull test negative, and I want to sell him if I decide not to castrate after all....


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

Even if your bull tests negative, who is to say that all of the cattle he is exposed to are also tested? If you sell him through a salebarn, chances are he will be going straight to slaughter. As a rancher, I buy virgin bulls. That way I do not have to worry about any sexually transmitted diseases coming into our herd. I honestly don't know of any ranchers who buy non-virgin bulls. The risk is not worth any potential benefits.

If you decide to cut him, be sure and do it when the signs are right, so he doesn't bleed too much.

Speaking for myself, there is too much potential for a bad situation to keep a bull around as a pet or pasture ornament.

You may decide to go ahead and lease him out to someone who only has a few head, but there are many variables that need to be taken into consideration and put down in writing. The bull should also be sproting a visible registered brand. It would be very easy for someone to load him up and take him to a sale.

If you want to go ahead and cut him, the quickest and easiest way would be to have someone rope his heels and someone to rope his head. Once you get him down and stretched out, put the front leg on top through the loop around his head to keep him from choking down. This will also help control him a little better. When all of this is done, cut his nuts off. Don't forget to spray some fly spray on there and then get the heck out of the way. He'll be ok and in a better mood in a day or two.


Tex


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

You mention signs of when to castrate, and I have heard that term used. Can you fill me in on what signs? 

If I do cut him it will be done at my vets, they are fully equipped to handle any size bull or cow. I will take him down, drop him off, pick him up the following day.

So, if he was exposed to a positive heifer or cow, and he got Trich, it might not show up in testing? Or did you mean that even if a bull gets it and then they are clear of it after contracting it, they are carriers for their lifetime? 

Thanks for the good information. It is very important to me that I have all of the facts and information I can get, in a way that is not belittling or demeaning.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

aoconnor1 said:


> I was using the general cattle term for anything that is cattle...Cow. I know quite well that a cow and a bull are two separate things, but the term cow was in reference to cattle, not gender.
> 
> Thank you for the correction, I won't miss-reference it again.


I didn't mean to offend you.


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

aoconnor1 said:


> You mention signs of when to castrate, and I have heard that term used. Can you fill me in on what signs?
> 
> If I do cut him it will be done at my vets, they are fully equipped to handle any size bull or cow. I will take him down, drop him off, pick him up the following day.
> 
> ...


I do not know all of the ins and outs of Trich, but I will gladly tell you what liittle I do know.

To my knowledge, an animal can be a carrier without actually being infected. 

There may be some homesteaders with a handful of cows who may be interested, but there is an awful lot of liability. Should your bull become infected, he could get in with the neighbor's cattle after you get him back and then they too could become infected.

The signs I am talking about are the astrological signs. Before people moved to town and away from the farm, signs dictated when alot of things were done. When you are castrating animals, you always want to do it when the signs are below the loins (Scorpio) and going down. Castrating when the signs are in the feet (Pisces) is the best. Doing it while the signs are in the head can lead to an animal bleeding to death.

Some people don't believe in the signs, but I have seen them proven right too many times.

You will probably be ok if you take him into the vet, but it may be smart to also adhere to the signs as well. The next time you are at the grocery store, pick up a 2014 edition of The Old Farmers Almanac.

Been fighting a summertime head cold the last couple days and haven't much felt like doing the needed research for some of my posts, but the Almanac can explain everything better than I ever could anyhow.

Don't hesitate to ask if you have any questions.


Tex


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Allen W said:


> I didn't mean to offend you.


It's ok, I may have my feelings on my sleeve about this whole thing. 

Thank you...


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Tex- said:


> I do not know all of the ins and outs of Trich, but I will gladly tell you what liittle I do know.
> 
> To my knowledge, an animal can be a carrier without actually being infected.
> 
> ...


Cool information about castrating and using the zodiac signs to know the best time to cut. It is all about bariatric pressure, and seems to ring true according to my own dates I checked against when I had my colts cut. One had a difficult time and bled a lot, was quite swollen, etc. also had a donkey do the same thing. But my second colt did great...he had no bleeding after the first few hours, and virtually no swelling, which completely shocked me. When I checked dates and compared them to the zodiac moon tables for surgery, the first was done at the wrong time as was my donkey, but the second colt was cut on the exact day it said he should be gelded. Really interesting stuff. 

According to that then, my bull shouldn't be castrated until June 30th. I will wait that long to decide what I am going to do for sure. Really, after the information about Trich, I am even more inclined to cut him and keep him on the ranch to train my young horses about being around cows...that would give him a purpose to be around, and me a reason to have him. (Bad reasons, but reasons!)


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## Tex- (May 18, 2014)

In your first sentence, you mentioned "bariatric pressure" and I think you may have meant, "barometric pressure" and to my knowledge, the signs do not have anything to do with that. The barometric pressure dropping before a storm will sometimes cause springing cattle or mares, as well as other animals, to go into labor. I have seen that happen many times.

Don't ask me exactly how the "signs" work, but I do know that adhering to them works. I grew up in the Assemblies of God church and they sometimes look at this stuff to be of the occult, or the devil. I never saw things concerning this to be about anything evil and more along the lines of a gift from God. While reading my Bible, I once came across a verse somewhere in Genesis about there being a time and season for everything. Since then, I have looked at this verse as proof that using the signs was something God gave us to be better farmers and ranchers.

There are also some really cool little tidbits I've learned about calf sizes and branding that coincide directly with the moon's waxing and waning.

Just out of curiousity, what is the vet going to charge for castrating this bull?


Tex


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## buckshotme (Jun 22, 2014)

I wonder does the meat on a bull that's two year old really tough if butchered ?


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Tex- said:


> In your first sentence, you mentioned "bariatric pressure" and I think you may have meant, "barometric pressure" and to my knowledge, the signs do not have anything to do with that. The barometric pressure dropping before a storm will sometimes cause springing cattle or mares, as well as other animals, to go into labor. I have seen that happen many times.
> 
> Don't ask me exactly how the "signs" work, but I do know that adhering to them works. I grew up in the Assemblies of God church and they sometimes look at this stuff to be of the occult, or the devil. I never saw things concerning this to be about anything evil and more along the lines of a gift from God. While reading my Bible, I once came across a verse somewhere in Genesis about there being a time and season for everything. Since then, I have looked at this verse as proof that using the signs was something God gave us to be better farmers and ranchers.
> 
> ...


Lol! Sorry, I meant barometric. I was reading several things on the internet about the zodiac signs and two articles I read talked about barometric pressure, the tides, moon stages, etc. and how those affect barometric pressure and our bodies ability to bleed more or less. I can understand that, as the pressure goes up or down depending on the gravitational pull of the moon.

That verse is in Ecclesiates, my favorite book in the Bible. I absolutely believe that God gave us signs in each season to guide us in planting, harvesting, breeding, foaling, etc. It is very interesting to me. I never thought about calf sizes and branding...have to check that out as well. That will affect when I breed my mares...when or if a certain date is good/bad. I have heard about a storm throwing a mare into foaling, but to be honest have not had that issue in my mares. Ad they have been very very close to foaling when we have had bad storms, but held the foal.

My vet is charging 60 for the block, then after that I am not sure. He said he would have to check things out after the block, then he would give me a better idea. I do trust this vet, I have used him for a lot of years for small and large animal care...though I actually stopped using him for my horses, but I still go to him for Norm.

Thanks for the good information! I appreciate it!


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## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

buckshotme said:


> I wonder does the meat on a bull that's two year old really tough if butchered ?


NO, in other countries they ONLY butcher Bulls ! 
Bull meat is only bad if the bull is under severe stress and testosterone level is up when butchered! 
But Norman isn't getting butchered!!!


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

ufo_chris said:


> NO, in other countries they ONLY butcher Bulls !
> Bull meat is only bad if the bull is under severe stress and testosterone level is up when butchered!
> But Norman isn't getting butchered!!!


I should never name anything I might have on my plate someday! Norman is going to be a happy bull, we have decided to go ahead and buy several heifers and put them out with the boy. Hopefully he will hang out with his herd...last time he was with only a few cows he wandered as soon as he had them soundly bred. Bad Norman, bad!

He better not have a repeat performance!


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## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

Shore up your fencing and make sure it's hot!


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

G. Seddon said:


> Shore up your fencing and make sure it's hot!


Yes, I do have to get it hot! For all the critters!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Since much of the information is opinions based on varying amounts of experience/experiences, I'll add that I do not believe in planting or castrating or butchering by various "signs" of the zodiac, the moon or Farmers Almanac. 
Weigh a 10 pound bag of flour on a full moon and again on a new moon. Gravitational pull is nil.
Feel free to hold onto your beliefs and I'll keep mine.

A 2 year old bull isn't likely to be tough. If not fed grain for at least 5 weeks prior to butcher, you can expect an "off" taste. Just because most of us were raised on corn fed beef, that is what we tend to like best. Without grain, some folks complain about the gamey taste. Bulls tend to be leaner anyway, so you will have to either grind it up or be vey careful not to over cook it. Again, IMHO


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## Spamela (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm glad you are going to get to keep Norman:clap:


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## opportunity (Mar 31, 2012)

I think norman needs few girlfriend. I have had more luck keeping an intact bull home with a single girlfriend then a steer by itself. I do not see any reason to no steer him at this age other then he is more usefull intact. I hope he stays home with the girls you buy.


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## bja105 (Aug 25, 2009)

What kind of cows are you going to get? Do you have something in mind, or whatever the auction has?


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

bja105 said:


> What kind of cows are you going to get? Do you have something in mind, or whatever the auction has?


I would like to find some black angus or Brangus, would love to find some Brown Swiss, but they aren't at our market very often.


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## buckshotme (Jun 22, 2014)

View attachment 31902
my cross bull is almost two y/o . Going to take him to the butcher this fall . What should I feed him so the meat has an awesome flavor ?


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