# Brand new Echo CS-490 chainsaw... bummed.



## Al Yaz (Jun 13, 2017)

So I have a larger saw, a Stihl 461 with a 32” bar and thought I would trade my smaller Echo CS-310 in on a bit bigger saw. Echo had a sale on so got a brand new Echo CS-490 (50 cc saw with a 20” bar) for $399 Cdn. That’s about $150 off regular pricing. Anyway, the Echo shop gave me $200 for my CS-310, which I was pleased with. 

So on the way out I asked if it had been test run and the guy says, 'no need as they are set up at Echo and are good to go.' When I bought my CS-310 there they test ran it so I thought that was kinda weird but I was in a hurry so headed out - but I knew better - shame on me.

Two hours later when I got home I tried to start the new saw. Nuttin honey. Pulled on it, checked the plug, ensured there was a spark, etc. I am thinking it’s not getting fuel. So I called the Echo guy and he said their mechanic isn’t in for a few days and to bring the saw back. He was good but I live in a remote location and the back and forth is a major PITA. Being a new saw I thought it best to not pull the carb to check the supply line etc.

I have quite a bit of Echo stuff and it has always been great. Guess Echo’s QC is lacking as of late... 

I will head back into town on Wednesday and drop it off at the Echo shop. Will keep you posted on the outcome...


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Did you have it on the choke setting when you pulled the rope?

If so, was the spark plug wet (ie, flooded)?

If you had it on choke and the spark plug was not wet, try putting a bit of mixed gasoline or starting fluid in the spark plug hole, replace the plug, and then give it a few pulls.


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## Al Yaz (Jun 13, 2017)

That’s the weird thing ( I thought ) ... Even after pulling on it for two days trying different things, (choke in, choke out, etc) there was never a smell of fuel or signs of flooding. The spark plug has stayed dry throughout...

Does putting a bit of mixed fuel into the spark plug hole help prime it? Just trying to make sense of what mechanically is going on there...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

my sawshop / small engine shop owner wouldn't dare let a saw or mower or tiller or splitter out of his shop without first putting at least a half tank of his gas in and running it for a few minutes , when I bought my mower 2 years ago he set the deck height at what he considers ideal and mowed a few strips of grass with it , then double checked the oil level after it ran before we loaded it in my truck.

he wants to know 100% it was running perfect when it left his shop because it will be his hours put into fixing anything that comes back 


a lot of manufacturers will now extend your warranty a year if you buy 2 cans of their brand pre-mixed fuel with the new saw purchase. because bad mix / bad gas really does kill that many saws. perfect mix that is shelf stable for 2 years in the saw or on the shelf lets them know you got started the right way. most home owners saws die form lack of use and bad gas storage rather than being worn out. if you burn less than a gallon of mixed gas a year the pre-mixed fuel is really the way to go for sure if it is less than a half gallon a year.


either way as much of a hassle as it is , I would take it back to them before you do any more.

if you do choose to put fuel in I wouldn't do it in the plug hole , if you have a clean squirt bottle , my saw dealer has the refillable ketchup bottle he keeps mixed fuel in and will squirt a bit in the carb when diagnosing a problem.

I started doing the same I had a refillable food service squirt bottle I had used for salad dressing a while back basically what they use to put mayo on a sandwich at the sandwich shop. that way you have just a small amount of gas and it is mostly contained. I mainly use mine to get my old snow blower going for the first time of the year. when I am done using it I make sure to dump it in my log splitter , snow blower or lawn mower so that it gets used up and doesn't go bad in the container 

it is hard to pour little enough from a gallon or larger can much less get it where you want it and my wife's co-worker was pouring from an open cup into a truck carb this summer when it caught fire and the open cup was a bad idea he was badly burned it is some risk either way best to minimize the risk especially if you are remote medical might be a ways away.


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

One saw getting past QC does not mean they are lacking. There will always be human error. I will fault the shop for a lack of test run. Seth




Al Yaz said:


> So I have a larger saw, a Stihl 461 with a 32” bar and thought I would trade my smaller Echo CS-310 in on a bit bigger saw. Echo had a sale on so got a brand new Echo CS-490 (50 cc saw with a 20” bar) for $399 Cdn. That’s about $150 off regular pricing. Anyway, the Echo shop gave me $200 for my CS-310, which I was pleased with.
> 
> So on the way out I asked if it had been test run and the guy says, 'no need as they are set up at Echo and are good to go.' When I bought my CS-310 there they test ran it so I thought that was kinda weird but I was in a hurry so headed out - but I knew better - shame on me.
> 
> ...


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

A lesson worth learning, I'd say.
What was that Russian proverb Reagan used?


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## crehberg (Mar 16, 2008)

Hope it's an easy fix. I know I'd be jonesin to try a new saw so bad!


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Al Yaz said:


> That’s the weird thing ( I thought ) ... Even after pulling on it for two days trying different things, (choke in, choke out, etc) there was never a smell of fuel or signs of flooding. The spark plug has stayed dry throughout...
> 
> Does putting a bit of mixed fuel into the spark plug hole help prime it? Just trying to make sense of what mechanically is going on there...


Yes, it can. Whether you put a bit in the spark plug hole or in the throat of the carb, it should ignite and allow the engine to run at a high rpm for a while. This running of the engine can create enough vacuum - alot more than pulling the rope - to get the fuel flowing in a new engine.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I would not blame Echo, I would blame the dealer. My Echo dealer will not let a saw out before running it and tuneing it. Echos have had a reputation of comeing to the dealer set on the lean side

When I bought my CS400 I had to wait 20 minutes for them to do that and it came with a full fuel tank.

My friend John bought a CS490 from the same dealer and also had to wait. I had a chance to work his CS490 If I ever buy a new saw of that size it will be a Echo CS490. By the way a CS490 is a 59.8CC saw.

I am contplateing a new Echo 800P for a new big saw, will buy from the same dealer.
Nice people give veterans a discount on products & parts and make sure saws & other engine things are tuned before leaveing the shop and a follow up call 5 days after the sale.

 Al


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Before I poured fuel in the spark plug hole, I'd pour some in the fuel tank.


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## Al Yaz (Jun 13, 2017)

http://www.echo.ca/Products/Chain-Saws/CS-490

alleyyooper, you are thinking of the 590 Timberwolf, which is 59 cc. The 490 and 501P are both 50 cc saws. If they can’t get the 490 running I will probably just kick in the extra cash and get the 501P, which has about 17% more power (same weight). 

Yes I agree, Echo saws in order to meet the emissions levels have their saws tuned on the lean side. My Stihl already has but the new Echo, once it is running, will be going to a pro shop to get it tuned properly and safely.



alleyyooper said:


> My friend John bought a CS490 from the same dealer and also had to wait. I had a chance to work his CS490 If I ever buy a new saw of that size it will be a Echo CS490. By the way a CS490 is a 59.8CC saw. Al


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## Al Yaz (Jun 13, 2017)

Well the Echo shop has no idea what is wrong with the saw I returned so they gave me another brand new one. This one runs. Took it straight to ‘the tuners’ place who will get rid of the limiters and fatten it up and do a muffler tweak too. The Echo shop offered me a new 550P but I want a 50 cc saw as it fits into my needs better and is only about 10 lbs. versus 13 lbs for the 550P. If I need a bigger saw I have my Stihl 461.


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## Al Yaz (Jun 13, 2017)

Just a follow up... Was at the Echo dealership yesterday and the tech told me that he finally got the original CS-490 running. Said it was set so lean that he had to remove the limiters and reset all three screws. Said he knew they were set lean but had never seen one set that lean. 

So, fwiw, anyone buying a new Echo especially, please consider fattening up the mixture screws right from day one.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

If you buy from a decent Dealer that is worth a hoot they will run the saw set the high and low speed jets from the lean condition before it goes out the door.

 Al


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

alleyyooper said:


> If you buy from a decent Dealer that is worth a hoot they will run the saw set the high and low speed jets from the lean condition before it goes out the door.
> 
> Al


exactly , any dealer with a hoot will insist on fueling it up for the first time with his mix or off the shelf pre-mix fuel and start and run and check jets and make sure it is oiling. before letting a saw out the door.


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

CS-490 is a very good saw. I will get one whenever my Dolmar PS510 dies, which may take many more years. I did buy a CS-352 and fattened it up a bit. Not worried about warranty since you can get denied every which way, including Sunday these days on warranty claims. All they have to do is whisper "straight gas" and you can't fight them. Anyhoo, if I had done just a bit more research, I might have put 150.00 more on my purchase and gotten the CS-261P. Stihl and Husky still have the lion's share of the market, but there are other good saws out there as well.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

another good reason to have a good local dealer you maintain a relationship with. there is a lot they can do to back you on a warranty claim.

when a dealer does the work an then files the claim to get paid the generally have to believe their dealer.

another reason the dealer should fuel, oil ,start and run the saw and verifying low and high jet and max rpm before it leaves their shop they will be where the saw comes back to. they will fix it if they believe it is a warrantied fix and then they get paid from the supplier.

I have a digital tach and a tuning screw driver but I go bug my dealer when I think it needs an adjustment on a saw that is still under warranty. he also told me what gas station he buys his gas at and I buy from the same station , I buy my oil from him. so that should i have an issue I am covered. if the saw is out of warranty I will make the carb adjustments myself. but I still use premium oil and gas.


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## Al Yaz (Jun 13, 2017)

Probably been already said, but it is kinda sad that these saws are set so lean at the factory in order to meet the EPA regs. Running saws too lean is apparently one of the main warranty claim issues, which is somewhat ironic. I suspect that the damage done by running too lean versus no oil is similar - anyone know for sure? Also, I should have asked the tech, but if that 490 was set that lean at the factory, that it wouldn’t start, would the carb limiters have allowed enough adjustment to get it to run properly and safely? 

Anyway, using a good oil and a mix ratio that you are happy with, in conjunction with a carb adjustment and a tach check every once in a while should help prevent any unnecessary warranty claims...one would hope


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

yes running lean and strait gas the only difference is lean takes longer but the damage looks the same.

you may have to take the limiters off 

but yes good fuel oil and checking high with a saw tach and keeping a bit under the max recommended should avoid issues


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## Al Yaz (Jun 13, 2017)

Just for the fun factor, I mounted / installed a tach on each of my saws. Checked the tachs with my handheld Oppama tach (which shows they are accurate). Had seen a few guys doing it on Youtube. Just a nice feeling to know how they are always running at different times / temperatures.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

how dis you mount the tach did you screw it to the case ? picture


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## Al Yaz (Jun 13, 2017)

This tach came with two threadable inserts on the back, allowing me to bolt it thru the brake guard. Out of the way and doesn’t interfere with anything. On the Stihl 461 I zapped a ‘Hardline’ tach to the handle.



GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> how dis you mount the tach did you screw it to the case ? picture


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Al Yaz said:


> Probably been already said, but it is kinda sad that these saws are set so lean at the factory in order to meet the EPA regs. Running saws too lean is apparently one of the main warranty claim issues, which is somewhat ironic. I suspect that the damage done by running too lean versus no oil is similar - anyone know for sure? Also, I should have asked the tech, but if that 490 was set that lean at the factory, that it wouldn’t start, would the carb limiters have allowed enough adjustment to get it to run properly and safely?
> 
> Anyway, using a good oil and a mix ratio that you are happy with, in conjunction with a carb adjustment and a tach check every once in a while should help prevent any unnecessary warranty claims...one would hope





Al Yaz said:


> Just a follow up... Was at the Echo dealership yesterday and the tech told me that he finally got the original CS-490 running. Said it was set so lean that he had to remove the limiters and reset all three screws. Said he knew they were set lean but had never seen one set that lean.
> 
> So, fwiw, anyone buying a new Echo especially, please consider fattening up the mixture screws right from day one.


I've run into that the last few saws I bought......and after some normal use of a year or less, promptly burned them right up! 
One "authorized dealer" really lit my fuse by saying I must have run it with straight gas/no oil mix.
I ain't saying it could *never* happen, but it's something I go to great lengths to prevent, like having *one* designated container for my 2 cycle stuff and always looking at the color of the fuel every time I put fuel in something.
As mentioned, running lean will ultimately give the same results, a burnt and scored cylinder.
Besides always using non-ethanol gas, I started mixing the oil heavier than the recommendations just for that reason.
I'm all thumbs when it comes to adjusting carbs on small engines, so even though my saws don't run as good as they could, at least I haven't scorched anymore of them since I quit following "factory advice".


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Al Yaz,
Let me know when you put a turbocharger on there. What does it turn in the quarter mile?


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## Lookin4GoodLife (Oct 14, 2013)

farmrbrown said:


> Besides always using non-ethanol gas, I started mixing the oil heavier than the recommendations just for that reason.


I do the same thing. I use (and refill) one of those little 2 stroke oil bottles that has the reservoir on top and you squeeze it to get the oil into the top. I just always fill it to the top line no matter what I'm mixing for.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

too much oil in the mix can also cause issues , carbon build up around the exhaust port will also wear your rings on the exhaust side and cause failure.

can also foul plugs and cause difficult starting when cold.

that Goldilocks mix enough oil but not too much oil.


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## Al Yaz (Jun 13, 2017)

Good point. Seems like a lot of the professionals around here (loggers and tree climbers) are using non-ethanol fuel with between a 40:1 and 50:1 mix. From what I am hearing, most report having had good luck with that.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

I see pre-mix labeled 40/1. 50/1 and one labeled "For 40/1 and 50/1" I try to keep pre-mix on hand to start the engines, but I run them on non-ethanol and 2-cyle oil that I mix myself. I don't think that there is much question that the pre-mixes will start a cold, just-out-of-storage engine better than my own mix.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

I keep an old pump oil can on the shelf that has gasoline in it (maybe only a cup or so), that I can aim into the open spark plug hole with a few squirts. Replace the plug and give it a few pulls. This will get the motor firing, which may help pull fuel through the carb to keep it running.

This method has worked more times than not. You can also ground the loose spark plug against the frame and pull the recoil....this will show you the spark on the plug electrode (or not if fouled).


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

CKelly78z said:


> I keep an old pump oil can on the shelf that has gasoline in it (maybe only a cup or so), that I can aim into the open spark plug hole with a few squirts. Replace the plug and give it a few pulls. This will get the motor firing, which may help pull fuel through the carb to keep it running.
> 
> This method has worked more times than not. You can also ground the loose spark plug against the frame and pull the recoil....this will show you the spark on the plug electrode (or not if fouled).


I use a plastic bottle like you would put mayo or salad dressing in , the local small engine shop uses a ketchup squeeze bottle.

I make sure to dump it after each use so that the gas in the bottle doesn't go bad , either , usually into the tank of what ever I just needed to start.

you don't need it full just a little in the bottle.

it has worked for me on may a snow blower that was hard to start


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