# Advice on Donkey



## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

Hi all,
I just got my first Donkey this week. I'm reading everything I can about their behavior, how to train them, etc. We got her to be a guard for our pasture which has chickens and (soon) rabbits, and as a pet. She was raised around mostly goats but also chickens. She is about 9 months old.

I go out there twice a day and check on her and interact with her. The past few times she's been leaning on me, pushing me with her head, and won't leave my side for a second - making it really hard to feed/water the chickens. She seems to be trying to pin me between her and the truck. So far what I do is a very stern no and hold her head or neck so she can't push me. Half the time it stops her, the other half she just leans harder and I have to move. I tried a really firm pat on her chest too.

She also chases my truck when I leave (I think she kicked it today) and it takes forever to get her to come back in the inner gate. 

1. How do I train her to:
A. Give me some space when I need to feed the other animals?
B. Stop chasing my truck?

2. Is the leaning/pushing aggression or affection? IE, is she lonely/sad/happy to see me, or angry at me?

3. Is this just an adjustment period of moving to our pasture and being away from her goats? If we got a goat (We want to get goats eventually anyway) would it make it better or worse? Better because she's used to goats, or worse because it's not HER goat? 


Note: I spent several years training dogs professionally for pet owners, using clicker training, and have competed with my dogs in dog sports. I understand basic learning theory/behavior training. I know she's not a dog, and she's not a horse - I want to train her using kind gentle methods rather than keep yelling and pushing her which doesn't work well anyway, but I also don't want to use food because I don't want her to expect a treat from me all the time. I just don't know enough about her body language to interpret if she is lonely or angry, and this is the largest animal I've ever had so I'm a little nervous of messing up. 

Here's a photo of her:










Thanks for any advice you can offer. I look forward to talking with other donkey owners - I have always loved them and am so excited to have my own now.


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## Pigeon Lady (Apr 4, 2004)

Your donkey is lovely! 

Here's a step by step guide that helped me out when I first got donkies:

http://www.calkinsart.net/donkeyinfo/vldonkclinic.html

Also enjoy this lady's videos:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtglQI2Ii7w[/ame]

I don't give treats. They love to be brushed so I keep the brush in my pocket and instead of rewarding with a treat I reward with short brushings. 

Enjoy your girl


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## SoldiersRest (Jun 4, 2013)

My jack declined badly, almost seemed to lose the will to live, when he left his sheep and became an only-hoofer. We got a couple of horses, and watched him come right back around. Later, he adopted the goats we bought, and the chickens, and isn't as dependent on the horses anymore. But they are definately herd animals!

On another note, you probably need to restrict the time you leave her on that lush pasture, donkeys can founder really quickly in good grass. I'm currently deployed to the part of Africa these critters came from, and the only green around here is acacia bush leaves. But the local donkeys seem to thrive on it!

Enjoy your jenny, my buddy Bert the jack has become an absolutly integral part of our family.


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## Pigeon Lady (Apr 4, 2004)

When I was in Mogadishu in '93 I would look at all the donkeys on the streets, pulling carts and wonder "what do they eat?" There was hardly a scrap of vegetation and I never saw where they were kept. It was a mystery. The whole place was gutted out, people living from hand to mouth. A whole community of refugees living in tiny domes built of sticks covered in scraps of cloth. One day, behind the torn up buildings of what had once been the university -where we were housed, I saw a half starved old man leading two beautiful sleek and shiny horses! It was mind boggling. Especially now when I see how much pasture and hay my two go through!


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## SoldiersRest (Jun 4, 2013)

Pigeon Lady said:


> When I was in Mogadishu in '93 I would look at all the donkeys on the streets, pulling carts and wonder "what do they eat?" There was hardly a scrap of vegetation and I never saw where they were kept. It was a mystery. The whole place was gutted out, people living from hand to mouth. A whole community of refugees living in tiny domes built of sticks covered in scraps of cloth. One day, behind the torn up buildings of what had once been the university -where we were housed, I saw a half starved old man leading two beautiful sleek and shiny horses! It was mind boggling. Especially now when I see how much pasture and hay my two go through!


I'm only about 100k north of Mogadishu, many people still live in bush huts with mosquito net roofs. There are huge herds of goats sharing these huts!


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## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

Thank you all for the replies. Yesterday she seemed a lot less pushy. I hope it's just an adjustment period.


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## SoldiersRest (Jun 4, 2013)

Glad to hear that!


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

She still a baby. They are full of vinager. They will kick up their heels at you, as thought to kick you, but it's just cheekiness. Push your fingers into her to make her move out of your space. Use a word. When you want her to back up, say "back" while you push your fingers into her chest. When you want her hand quarters to move, say "left" or whichever direction is appropriate, while you press your fingertips into her thigh.

Clicker works well with donkeys. You can use it to teach her to stand where you want her to stand, and to use a target. If she was a stable foal and not in a herd, she will be harder to handle because she is spoiled. Use a brush as a reward. Once you start brushing her she will discover that she loves it.


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## Pigeon Lady (Apr 4, 2004)

I'm no expert, but I think the leaning may be affection. My Jenny turns her head and leans it on the farrier's back during hoof trims. At first I thought she was turning to bite the farrier's bum but she says "no, I want her to do that, it's the donkey's sign that she's accepted me" 

Stay safe SR! I hope you'll be back home with your critters soon.


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## SoldiersRest (Jun 4, 2013)

Pigeon Lady said:


> I'm no expert, but I think the leaning may be affection. My Jenny turns her head and leans it on the farrier's back during hoof trims. At first I thought she was turning to bite the farrier's bum but she says "no, I want her to do that, it's the donkey's sign that she's accepted me"
> 
> Stay safe SR! I hope you'll be back home with your critters soon.


I agree, Bert leans on all of us. He also pushes his head against our bellies, waiting to get some arms wrapped around his head for a hug.

I fly out of here at the end of the week. It was a short deployment, just six months for me, but has really been rough on my wife. She's a city girl, so running the critters by herself has been hard. I can't wait to get back!


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## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

I think it's affection too, it's just too much!  I started halter training her today, she let me put the halter on and lead her 30 ft. 

(I know the halter is too big, I'm going to exchange it tomorrow)


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## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

Well I thought things were going well. The halter training was going ok, she lets me put it on her and lead her.

This morning I was just walking and she was following me around and she bit my arm! What the hell? I have a giant bruise. I was so mad.

Now I'm scared of her. I don't know why she did this so I don't know how to fix it. 

I also think she is looking heavier so I'll have to see about the grazing muzzle. Of course that will probably just make her madder at me.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Because she has no respect for you. Her leaning on you doesn't always mean affection.
She is trying to boss you around. 

Ella, when I first got her was quite Bossy in many ways... including not willing to pick up her hooves for cleaning.
Her halter training, you have to make them keep a respectful distance at all times, and be one step ahead of them. Nip any bad behavior in the bud.
I could do a big write up on the best direction to go in training, but I find a lot of things are lost. Is much better to learn in person.

Now that you are afraid of her, she will know it and try to take advantage even more.
Please, find a donkey or mule trainer to help you out. 

The Lady that owns this place is a good trainer. She has DVD's on training... she should know of a trainer close to you. I would ask for help.
http://luckythreeranch.com/website/


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I'm betting she's going to be very lonely. Donkeys are SMART and really need companionship, preferrably other equine companions. I once had a donkey with my sheep and goats, and he was miserable. He started tormenting the sheep and goats, and I finally had to re-home him to a donkey rescue.


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## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

Unfortunately I don't really have the money to hire a trainer right now. Otherwise I would definitely do that. 

We only got the one because I was told they won't be good guards if you have more than one. I definitely don't want to get another since I can't handle the one, that just seems like a recipe for disaster. 

Ugh. I'm really sad, this isn't working out the way I had hoped. She is basically making it impossible for me to do my chores out there in the morning and evening. I feel bad that she's clearly unhappy. All the info I read before getting her said to get one for a guard animal, even though they acknowledge that they do better in pairs. I would hate to make her miserable. Maybe we should have gotten an older one that was already trained better.


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## SoldiersRest (Jun 4, 2013)

You are getting good advice here. Biting in not unusual, just unacceptable. My jack Bert quit trying to bite after my son got ----ed off and bit him back, on the ear.

I had to go to an Amish harness maker to get a good-fitting halter. He made it with nearly no metal hardware, so Berts face no longer has hairless patches.


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## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

LOL thanks that made me laugh. 

Do you leave the halter on the donkey all the time? I only put it on her when I'm out there. Does that matter?

I really appreciate everyone's responses.


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## SoldiersRest (Jun 4, 2013)

He always wears it. Before we got other pasture critters he got through the fence regularly, so the halter let my very understanding neighbors bring him back!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

jesirose, I'm not sure who told you that donkeys are good guard animals because that's only part of the story. Some are and do a very good job but guard donks are generally bred, not trained. Others are flat out poor guards and we have a long list of people who buy them and then drop by to ask why their donkeys are trying to kill calves, lambs, goat kids or dogs. 

If I came to you and said that I'd trained horses all my life but had no background in dogs but wanted to train a guard dog, I'm very sure you would advise me to find a mentor with suitable background in guard dogs before my lack of skills caused a disaster.


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## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

I totally get that, I'm just not sure what to do about it now. We already have her. 

Is your point that she doesn't need training to be a guard, because you said it's about the breeding? It's not the guarding part that I'm concerned about at the moment. 

Maybe we should find her a home with another donkey then.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

I have little expereince with donkeys and my DW is the horse expert, but...

Equines bite each other when establishing dominance. Start your chores by working that donkey. Put a halter on and make her move her feet for a good 20 minutes. You want her walking back, away from you a good bit of that time; that shows your dominance and doesn't hurt the critter one bit. If you can make her sweat and view getting away from you as the best way to get some rest, she's less likely to come around trying to make trouble.

Have you ever lunged a horse? I haven't seen it done with donks, but if someone can help you with that, you would be WAAAAY ahead of the game. You want them to go forward, stop, turn, and come to you just with a couple of hand signals and your body position relative to hers. I'm still learning my way from my DW. DW has taken an unworked almost 3 yr old filly from one we couldn't catch in the field to an affectionate, gentle lover we can lunge at walk, trot canter, trail ride at a walk, and canter in the arena in 4 months, including one month of no work because the filly cut her shank on a fence. 

The leaning on you is not good right now. That is more dominance issues. Once you are established as the herd boss, you can allow her to come up and request hugs and she will do so submissively.


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## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

CesumPec said:


> I have little expereince with donkeys and my DW is the horse expert, but...
> 
> Equines bite each other when establishing dominance. Start your chores by working that donkey. Put a halter on and make her move her feet for a good 20 minutes. You want her walking back, away from you a good bit of that time; that shows your dominance and doesn't hurt the critter one bit. If you can make her sweat and view getting away from you as the best way to get some rest, she's less likely to come around trying to make trouble.



Thank you so much for the advice. Any specific tips on HOW to keep her walking farther back from me?



> Have you ever lunged a horse? I haven't seen it done with donks, but if someone can help you with that, you would be WAAAAY ahead of the game. You want them to go forward, stop, turn, and come to you just with a couple of hand signals and your body position relative to hers. I'm still learning my way from my DW. DW has taken an unworked almost 3 yr old filly from one we couldn't catch in the field to an affectionate, gentle lover we can lunge at walk, trot canter, trail ride at a walk, and canter in the arena in 4 months, including one month of no work because the filly cut her shank on a fence.
> 
> The leaning on you is not good right now. That is more dominance issues. Once you are established as the herd boss, you can allow her to come up and request hugs and she will do so submissively.


I haven't worked with any equines before unfortunately.


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## CesumPec (May 20, 2011)

I'm not qualified to give detailed training advice and I wouldn't want to steer you wrong by leaving out some important detail. I suggest you google and read all you can about "training horse to halter", "training horse to lead", "training horse to lunge". there is plenty of good info out there and names like Pat Pirelli, Julie Goodnight, Clinton Anderson, Buck Brannaman are all good folks who know how to train horses and horse owners. They all have DVDs to sell and a lot of them are fairly expensive, but if you subscribe to http://www.barnsweetbarndvds.com/ you can get them cheaply. Barn sweet barn is the Netflix of all things equine.

An important thing to remember is that some of your dog training is wrong for horses because of the difference between predator and prey thinking. A lot of times you'll see someone trying to walk backwards and pull a horse to them - wrong. The eye contact is telling the horse Whoa! Also you can sometime over power a dog, but that is not going to happen with even a small donkey so don't get into a battle you will lose.

With a horse, they somehow know where you are looking and that's where they will go whether you are leading or riding - once they trust you. So pull with your right hand, look where you want to go, don't stare at obstacles that you fear will be difficult for the horse. You can get a step ahead of the animal as long as you are facing forward, turn towards them and they will stop. 

You really need someone with equine experience to teach and critique you. Leading is something most any horse owner can show you. While many dog owners know nada about leading a dog, most every horse owner knows how to lead. Lunging is more difficult, it requires lots more human and horse training.

BTW - based on msg 11, the one thing you are doing wrong is trying to get the donk to walk upside down.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

jesirose, I'm saying that good guard animals are the product of gentics just like a good quality guard dog is and I'm also saying that it is quite difficult to convince a donkey (who is inclined to guard territory rather than a flock) to change their mind and not kill kids, lambs and calves. Training is important to any animal, because sooner or later you're going to need a vet and farrier and neither will see an agressive animal and anything that leaves marks like that needs far more than a clicker and deserves a serious meeting with the flexible end of a stock whip. 

I am also saying that just because you have experience training dogs, does not mean one is qualified to train a donkey and you really do need a mentor for this one, mainly because you don't speak their language. I can read and speak equine and bovine but neither would qualify me to train a canine. They have different language and different mentalities.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Another issue... you can not train them like you do horses.

Those big name clinic's... couldn't handle Icelandic's. Had a number of friends try to go that route, some just had their Icelandic's shut down, or blow up. It didn't turn out well with any of them, plus they had added issues, after going to those clinics.

Most Icelandic's need to be trained like a mule/donkey. 
Is a whole nother ball game.

Look to Donkey and Mule trainers to get any tips or ideas from. 

Think you are right, for now, it might be best to re home her, before she really hurts you, or starts killing your stock.

My Ella... she was a dear, but only after I had trained her. I could never, ever trust her with anything smaller than her.
She would chase and kill chickens, lambs.. cats.. what ever.


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## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks everyone, I will definitely consider finding her a new home, since I don't think we can afford a trainer. I'll call around and see if I can get some help first though. 

This morning instead of driving into the pasture I just kept my car parked outside so I wouldn't have the 20 minute struggle over getting her back inside, and she just stayed by my car the whole time I was taking care of the chickens. Then when I came back to the car, she came over to me, so I walked her around for a while and brushed her. She did not try to lean on me and I felt a lot more confident so hopefully that helped. 

I will be practicing walking her around every morning. I really appreciate all the advice. I know my experience with dogs doesn't really translate, I was just trying to explain I guess that I have the ability to learn how to work with different animals, if that makes sense. 





CesumPec said:


> BTW - based on msg 11, the one thing you are doing wrong is trying to get the donk to walk upside down.


Well that explains it!


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

In a sense you do train her like a dog. You reward for what you want. Unlike a horse, you cannot hurt the donkey. Don't whip her legs if she does something wrong, never hit the head. Horses forgive, donkeys do not.

You can lunge her, but unlike a horse, only do it for about five minutes. They learn very quickly from clicker. You can't click for sort of the right behavior, you click for the behavior you want, like a border collie.

I don't know about guard donkeys being bred to guard. Like any guard animal, you need to have them exposed young to the animal they will guard. When I got my jennets, one was four months old, the other seven months old. I kept them for a couple of months adjacent to the sheep before putting them together. They quickly became dominant members of the herd due to their size and good kicking hooves. From there, they became guards. If there was danger the sheep would all pack up behind the donkeys who stood solid before any dog or other posed danger. And these are minis.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Maura said:


> In a sense you do train her like a dog. You reward for what you want. Unlike a horse, you cannot hurt the donkey. Don't whip her legs if she does something wrong, never hit the head. Horses forgive, donkeys do not.


I agree with rewarding good behavior but are you really saying it's OK to hurt a horse? Whipping legs, and hitting them in the head for bad behavior? Cuz that's definitely not OK for horses or donkeys.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I'm pretty sure Maura was saying that a horse might forgive you for that sort of behavior, but a donkey won't, not that the behavior is acceptable or proper.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

GrannyCarol said:


> I'm pretty sure Maura was saying that a horse might forgive you for that sort of behavior, but a donkey won't, not that the behavior is acceptable or proper.


Maybe, but why talk about hitting and whipping at all?


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

If you haven't looked at the LGD forum, you might look there. I think there is some donkey information there. Opps, it's call Guard Animals now!


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Maybe, but why talk about hitting and whipping at all?


Because people do treat horses like that. If you read enough posts on this forum you will find these suggestions.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Maura said:


> Because people do treat horses like that. If you read enough posts on this forum you will find these suggestions.


I don't think anyone on this forum advocates hitting or whipping any type of equine. Can you provide examples please?


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

A good friend of mine has a pair of mammoth jennys that he trained. They do it all. Farm work, down the road 20 mile a day with the camper wagon you name it. He says the seceret to training a donkey is to keep him scared of you during the training and don't make a pet out him untill the training is done. He says the first thing you have to do is make the donkey go away from you in the round pen. There natural reaction is to stop and face you. Once you have overcome that you are on your way. Here is a short video where you can see how responsive they are. He has trained a local amishman to train donkeys for people also.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9gNwq5LNtw[/ame]


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Hmmm.... I trained Ella, with trust and respect... she wasn't afraid of me... but she did learn respect, manners and how to keep her space.

Granted I have been training and working with horse's... and Icelandic's a long time.
Working with and training my Icelandic's went a long way to teaching Ella.

But I don't want my animals scared of me. Can make them resentful, and when you least expect it... they will get you back.
Not the way I want to be around animals.

Firm but far works far better, than fear and abuse.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

If you have to make an animal scared of you to train it, maybe you should find a different hobby or learn new training methods.


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## jesirose (Jun 20, 2013)

I just wanted to update you guys that we decided since we don't have the money for a trainer, or the time to try to do a really good job training her ourselves, we are going to sell her and I'm going to make sure she will be with other donkeys. We have a few people interested so I know we can find her a better place where she won't be so lonely.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

jesirose said:


> I just wanted to update you guys that we decided since we don't have the money for a trainer, or the time to try to do a really good job training her ourselves, we are going to sell her and I'm going to make sure she will be with other donkeys. We have a few people interested so I know we can find her a better place where she won't be so lonely.


I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. She's a cute girl! It sounds like she'll be happy with other donkeys.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

Donkey training is different than mule or horses. By afraid I do not mean beat them or abuse them. By afraid I mean the natural wild afraid of humans mind set. He wants them naturally afraid or suspisious not an abuse afraid. For instance when he bought these as yearlings he bought those that did not come up to them in the field. Bob can give you some info and videos ideas you can look at to give you some hints. 

The donkeys he has are very affectionate and tame and very well trained. He says they are hard to train to go willingly but easy to tame.

If you would like to e mail him with any questions, he is always ready to talk donkeys. PM me and I will give you his email.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

I understand what you are saying rod44. It is easier to begin with a donk or mule that hasn't been spoiled or petted to death. One that has been cared for, but not overly handled if you understand is far easier to train than one that has picked up bad habits or allowed to be obnoxious. The naturally suspicious mule is easier to convince that the trainer has their best interests at heart because you teach them that every time you work with them. They will not know any better and are "uneducated" to "treats", disobeying, etc. A blank slate if you get my meaning. Blank slates are easiest to work with as they do not expect anything, do not know anything and therefore whatever they are taught is what they learn without all the excess baggage.

Good luck with your donkey, they are definitely worth the effort as once they learn the right things to do, they are superb rememberers (I made that word up as it describes the donks wonderfully).

I have friends with guard donks, they have told me that a donk needs to be raised with the animals they are to guard so that the goats/sheep/whatever will be "their" herd. It seldom works to take a donk that has never been with goats/sheep and has gotten older and try to put them with smaller critters. A young donk is best, they keep their weanlings in with older does/ewes that are used to donks. The older does will dscipline the donks if the donks get too rough with them. Same as a goat will do with a LGD.

But as WR says, not all donks are good at guarding or even care anything about it. Some are like people, they just don't want to work..lol


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