# Hives under attack by city



## DonofPaw (Apr 6, 2010)

Hello Everyone,

I am an urban beekeeper and gardener. Recently my neighbor cut down his hedges and can now see my bees. Someone called the city on me and I got a letter stating that I am in violation of 2.1 of the city ordinance. 2.1 includes floraculture, horticulture, and vinoculture... really 50% the city is in violation as my neighbors raise flowers, fruit, veg, and grapes and almost no one has 5 acres. Here is the ordinance thoughts?

Agriculture - the use of land, buildings or structures for agriculture and farming including floriculture, horticulture and viticulture; farming in all its branches and the cultivation and tillage of the soil; dairying; the production, cultivation, growing and harvesting of any agricultural, floricultural or horticultural commodities; the raising of livestock, the keeping and raising of poultry, swine, cattle and other domesticated animals used for food purposes, bees, fur-bearing animals; and any practices, included any forestry or lumbering operations performed by a farmer, who is hereby defined as one engaged in agriculture or farming as herein defined, or on a farm as an incident to or in conjunction with such farming operations, including preparations for market, delivery to storage or to market or to carriers for transportation to market, and the uses customarily accessory to the foregoing. (See Section 5.2 - a permitted use in all districts on parcels of five acres or more).


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## Dragonid (Mar 6, 2012)

That isn't an ordinance, it's just a definition of agriculture. There are usually clauses that exempt those same practices below some scale, allowing for gardens and pets.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

(1. Guess your going to spend abunch of money on a lawyer to fight this poorly written dumb law
(2. Or your going to find some one out side the city where you can keep your bees. 
(3. Or just give up and sell out. 
Even an idiot like me knows who turned you in.

 Al


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

So, I guess the question is what are you expecting from posting on a forum?

Do you belong to a bee club? Does your state have a state inspector? Are you connected in any way to the bee industry where you might find support, direction, and guidance in moving this forward? Several cities, and counties have recently passed or retracted laws banning beekeeping. But that took a concerted effort from beekeepers and others from a broad approach. 

Personally, I don't want my next door neighbor all of a sudden keeping 20 pigs 20 feet from my house. And for many, until they are educated, feel the same way about bees. But if beekeepers are "islands" to themselves, with no effort on helping the bee industry when it does not impact them, then I don't see how anybody can get all excited by helping when bad news comes a calling.

So you kept bees and your neighbors that lived close enough when they cut THEIR hedges down, can now see YOUR hives. So I take it you did nothing to keep your bee secluded, even though you were hush hush about them being there.

Yeah, Yeah....I'm all for one person not getting up in the business of the next. But that is not the world we live in. One should also understand that educating your neighbors and the public, pays off many times over. And being connected to the bee industry is also helpful. Waiting till you get a letter, usually gets you plenty of sympathy comments and "good luck" wishes. But I don't see much beyond that.


I would select #2 from the previous post, but with an added tweek. How about doing something aimed at getting the law changed. That might take some effort on your part. Others have done it. And so can you.

Good luck!


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

Dragonid said:


> That isn't an ordinance, it's just a definition of agriculture. There are usually clauses that exempt those same practices below some scale, allowing for gardens and pets.


Based on that definition, any body who had a garden of any type, even if it was just a couple tomato plants would be in violation. Likewise, even a few petunias or geraniums in a planter would be banned.

Ordinances like this can be changed. If you do some searches at some of the larger bee forums online (e.g., Beesource) you can find sample "bee friendly" ordinances that beekeepers have successfully been able to get towns to adopt. As others have noted, you need to get other beekeepers involved and work together. It doesn't take a lawyer, but it will take some time and effort. Earlier this spring I helped a new beekeeper convince his town council to allow him to keep bees, so I know it can be done.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Well, yoiu got away with it this far.

If I were you, I might be inclined to get the bees moved to someplace out of town. In the meantime, either build a 6' tall enclosure where the top is open, or find an area in your garage that you can create a "bee room" with an entrance to the outside.

Once things have quieted down, (like in the fall) move your hive back - to either the 6' tall fenced enclosure or the "bee room" in the garage.

In the meantime, you can point out that any person who has any kind of flowers or vegetables is breaking the law too.


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## k9 (Feb 6, 2008)

People are why I don't live in town.


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## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

bee hives are illegal in this city. Some people do have them though, but very few.


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## Coloneldad5 (Dec 6, 2011)

It might be a bit late now, but 'sharing' a little honey or honeycomb with your close neighbors and keeping them happy (as well as a gradual subliminal education) can be a way to avoid these situations. 

As for myself I'm with K9 on this type of situation.


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

I went over and met a gal who actually was one who helped get the City she is in to allow chickens, in town (up to 5). She is presently working to get that number increased per property. The size of the lots there? Less than .25 acre... She explained to me her chickens did have run of the yard, so got some free-ranging in, too.

As with others, I support working to get bees accepted, but in the meantime certainly move them.


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## indypartridge (Oct 26, 2004)

City Bound said:


> bee hives are illegal in this city. Some people do have them though, but very few.


City Bound - you list your location as New York City, but beekeeping was legalized there two years ago!

Sweet Victory: New York City Legalizes Beekeeping - DailyFinance

If you're interested in beekeeping, get connected with the NYC Beekeeping club:
New York City Beekeepers Association


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Giving honey to people to keep them happy, all that amounts to ransom. Where do you draw the line? When they want the use of your hubby for a night on the town or your wife while their wife travels to the mother in laws?

If the people want honey let them do the same as people who want beef. *BUY IT.*
Work at getting the law changed. Move to a more bee friendly area. Move the bees to an out yard. But *DO NOT PAY ANY ONE A BRIBE!!!!!!!!!*


 Al


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

ALLEYYOOPER,
If someone pastured their cows on my farm I would at very LEAST expect some beef. 
Its not a bribe its courtesy !


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

*Two different animals your talking about. *We pay yard rent in honey for the 8 out yards we have for the time being. No one gets less than a quart. Most get much more as they not only allow us to have bees on their property they keep critters populations down, set up winter wind breaks with big round bales of hay, mow around the hives and always make us feel welcome when we go to inspect the hives. Working at the Christmas tree farm this week Paul rode his ATV back to see how the bees were doing. Said he was going to go get the quart jars he had used all the honey out of. When he returned he also brought a dozen eggs. 

*This thread is about some one turning in a bee keeper when the city ordance doesn't allow them to keep them.* Al


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

how does a bee hive in my yard ,, compare in any way to a cow ??? 
lets see you play ball in your yard when cows are there and have been for a year ,, bees do not change in any way how you can and do use your yard ,, I have 7 hives less then a 100 feet from my house ,, I also have 8 grand kids here ,, we do no do any thing different then befor the bees got here ,, the dang yellow jackets , hornets , wasp , do change what we do at times ,, so out law them ,, lets send a letter to each house and say that the yellow jackets ,hornets , wasp are now out of city Ordinances ,, and you will be tagged and given a heavy fine , if any are found on you property , and known or unknown to you ..


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

I don't think giving some honey is bribery. I think it more as good neighbors. While I never keep bees on a working commercial farm without being paid for it, I do keep bees on properties that are part of our breeding program, by having apiary clusters and support yards. Giving out some honey goes a long way.

And I can certainly distinguish between the good will created by giving my neighbors a bottle of honey every so often, without clouding the issue by involving thoughts of someone after being handed a bottle of honey, wanting to sleep with my wife. 

Both my neighbors, and those that have my bees on their property (paid or unpaid for) are those that I trust and try to be civil with. If their cows get out, I try to help by calling them and somemes even help round them up. If I see someone in the orchards picking apples (or any other problem) that is not suppose to be there, I contact the owner. This in return has them contact me when a hive swarms, a top get blown off, kids knock over a hive, or anything else happening with the bees. I also get bags of fruits and veggies from them in return.

There just seems something wrong when a next door neighbor is in the dark about your beekeeping venture. And also when being a good neighbor and giving a bottle of honey is seen as a bribery or ransom.

If folks really wanted to be nasty, all they need to do is set out some tainted sugar water and kill all your bees. How many would smile and say "Well, keep your bees off my property and they will not have any problems."Then the beekeeper says "Hey, you can't kill my bees on YOUR property!" Then the homeowner next door, says, "So you acknowledge these are YOUR bees coming over to my pool and back porch?" And so it goes.....

A bottle of honey and being a good neighbor BEFORE there are problems, goes a along way. I just find that having the neighbor at the city/township board in support of beekeeping, means more than having them the one's complaining trying to get your bees removed. And taking the stance "Screw the ranson seeking jerks" and "MY bees don't bother them on THEIR property" a bit less than what may be needed to move forward in a positive position.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

And pray tell what should the gift to you bee for putting up with the racket of their peacocks and the crap their wandering gunie hens leave where ever they want?
After all if I am to start handing out free honey to neighbours then shouldn't all my neighbours pay a ransom to me for what they do that anoys me?

 Al


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## Coloneldad5 (Dec 6, 2011)

alleyyooper said:


> Giving honey to people to keep them happy, all that amounts to ransom. Where do you draw the line? When they want the use of your hubby for a night on the town or your wife while their wife travels to the mother in laws?
> 
> If the people want honey let them do the same as people who want beef. *BUY IT.*
> Work at getting the law changed. Move to a more bee friendly area. Move the bees to an out yard. But *DO NOT PAY ANY ONE A BRIBE!!!!!!!!!*
> ...



It's not necessarily a bribe, but just being neighborly, you know that old fashioned concept of being friends with those who live around you. Building good will in the neighborhood will be very beneficial when it comes to trying to get the city to change their policy because you can then bring in your neighbors to support your position.

Remember the quote: "you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar"?


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## DavidUnderwood (Jul 5, 2007)

I'm with yooper. My bees don't use up my neighbors
resources. In fact his flowers and vegetables are all
the better for them. Guess I'm lucky. None of my
neighbors have that "whats in it for me" attitude.


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

k9 said:


> People are why I don't live in town.


Although I am blessed with good neighbors, I envy K9!!! My perfect neighbor would be located on the next mountain over from mine.


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

alleyyooper said:


> And pray tell what should the gift to you bee for putting up with the racket of their peacocks and the crap their wandering gunie hens leave where ever they want?
> After all if I am to start handing out free honey to neighbours then shouldn't all my neighbours pay a ransom to me for what they do that anoys me?
> 
> Al


Well, since you asked....

Typical beekeeper response. You see the bees as a positive to other people's property, since you assume they benefit from what...pollination that probably was being accomplished by native pollinators long before you came along.

Then to turn around and seemingly have a problem with his chickens, is a bit one sided. Do the Guneas keep the tick population down? Do they eat other bothersome insects to your benefit. Do the chickens fertize your property with high quality poop? And do the chickens allow you to know the time of sunrise every morning, while alerting you to intruders in the area? Just make sure you hand back that dozen eggs that he might offer now and then....no need to take "bribes" by that nasty neighbor! Make sure you shout as he leaves "You can't buy me! I'm not for sale...and keep your hands off my wife" Oh wait, that would be you expecting to sleep with his wife under the scenario you painted.

That's right, as beekeepers we expect all other homeowners to deal with the bees at the pool, not have the grandkids be able to walk barefoot among the clovers, and for those actually allergic to honey bees, we expect them to just "deal with it!". Yes...draw that line in the sand. As the soup nazi would say.......NO HONEY FOR YOU! NEXT!!!!!!

And we ask why the homeowner never even gave the beekeeper a chance to work things out prior to lodging a complaint with the county or township. I bet I know why....


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

""""Do the chickens fertize your property with high quality poop? """"""
now your wife would like the grand kids rolling and plying in your yard with all that high quality poop ,and I bet your wife just loves setting out side in the yard with all that high quality poop
now that same poop gets on your shoes , you bring it in the house track it on the carpet that your 9 month old grand child is crawling on ,, never mind that marble size ball that he see's and is at that age were they eat any thing and every thing they find .. 
do the chickens allow you to know the time of sunrise every morning,
after getting off work at 1:30 am bcause your working 2nd shift ,, then your hour + drive home ,, now you want a shower befor going to bed and like to have a bit to eat ,,, now at 3:30 or 4:00 you get to bed ,, then at 5:30 6:00 that """" chickens allow you to know the time of sunrise """"" 

I have 8 grand kids here and they run bear foot all summer ,, roll around and play on the yard ,, they get stung ,BUT BY YELLOW JACKETS < WASP < HORNETS maybe 1 get's stung by honey bees ,


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## DavidUnderwood (Jul 5, 2007)

Tom, my roosters are crowing by 4:30 this time of year!
My closest neighbor can't hear them. I like it that way!


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

I think your missing the point.

I had chickens up till last year. Poop in the yard, poop on the back porch, and chickens making noise....is fine when they are your own. Just as with the bees. I don't mind the bees in the yard, and my kids do get stung from time to time. 

But it seems the very beekeepers who have a problem with chickens and some poop, expect every other homeowner to ignore the bees at the pool, at the hummingbird feeder, the recycling bin, the swarm in the back yard, and whatever else one could think of.

Then we as beekeepers get the attitude that being neighborly and keeping others perhaps in one's good grace, with a bottle of honey, as some bribe or ransom. 

As a beekeeper, I understand that my bees WILL impact the owners around me. I want them in good standing when the bees need water in mid-summer and they frequent the pool next door. I want them in good standing when my bees are all over the recycling bin in fall when there is nothing left for them to forage. I want them in good standing when they notice the yellow poop on the car. And I want them in good standing when that swarm lands in their tree in their backyard.

You can suggest they "---- off" every chance you get, ignore that your bees will impact the neighbors, and deny every and each comments.

Whether it's bees, chickens, pigs, or anything else, I just get the sense that perhaps some are doing far less then they could in being neighborly. And I have found out over the years when someone takes hard core stances and has problems with neighbors, while pointing fingers complaining about others, that it usually is a large part the fault of that very same person. That may be hard to see. But that comes with the territory as it lends to the conversation at hand.


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

BjornBee said:


> while pointing fingers complaining about others, that it usually is a large part the fault of that very same person. That may be hard to see. But that comes with the territory as it lends to the conversation at hand.


.... Says the Wax Moth, while complaining about how much of a pain in the @ss the Small Hive Beetle is.


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

Just to clarify. My comment was a synonym to "the pot calling the kettle black". I was in NO way trying to associate Al with a SHB....:nono:


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Not sure what is with letting your chickens make a real mess of your place, when it is easy to corral them like we do (?!). Of course, I have my own view of things, like we all do. The honey bees have their bee boxes, the Masons their Mason Houses, the 2 Cats get the great outdoors, our Dog has his dogloo w/the great outdoors. Neither of us want pets in the house due to all the work and issues involved. Others can do as they wish. Bees are incredibly beneficial and more should be done to get them accepted. Although some folks believe in gifting honey, I didn't, and wouldn't. These days, I have no honey bees as they were too expensive to get back into early in the year (lost my last hive over the Winter). So, I invested in more Blue Masons, got Osmia Californica's (another Mason Bee, the late one). The result? Our fruit trees are loaded with fruit! Now, in a short while, time to set out the Osmia's, and hello garden, here they come... I will miss the honey, but what can one do. It is VERY challenging to keep honey bees here


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

"""" I think your missing the point.""""
no ,,, I do understand what your saying ,, but it sounded like thats the way your thoughts were ,, you see a few around here feel what they do is right ,, even if there dog sets on your door step , kills every thing you have ,, bites you when your stepping out your door , got real mad when I told him to come get this dead dog out of my yard , they said they live in the country so the dog can run ,, but if you let your son park his car in your drive way for 3 weeks when hes out of town , he calls the city the 2nd week .. or his kid can run 4 wheelers at top speed back and forth on the road , snow mobel across your yard . from the road to the land in back ,run less then 10feet from the house ,, but your kid cann't run a sled along his road ditch 5 feet from road 
thats why I have told only 2 around here I have bees ,, one I told 2 years ago ,, the other 8 weeks ago ,, and by the way , the one that had the dog ,, he now has a hive any bees I do not know , he's the kind that beer comes first then any that is extra comes ,, only seen him the last 4 years with out a beer in his hand about 8 times the years befor that he allways had a beer in his hand for the last 30 years ..


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

A longtime beekeeper friend died last November without success after many years of trying to get the city to allow bees. All someone has to do to nix it is mention those who are allergic to bee stings. A stretch of legal thinking could find the city responsible if there were an anaphylaxis case resulting in death due to honeybees. If someone with a severe honeybee allergy was looking for a safe place to move to, a key to deciding upon moving to this city may be that honeybees are not allowed. The consequences would be all in how one would interpret the laws. Such people could press the issue that they should be allowed the freedom to not have to fear being stung. It's a stretch of imagination, yes, but also possible.

Might add that this is the first time in 49 years that there was never a single honeybee visiting my raspberries. No problem as it looks like the bumblebees did a fine job of assuring that every single blossom become a berry.

Martin


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

scrapiron said:


> .... Says the Wax Moth, while complaining about how much of a pain in the @ss the Small Hive Beetle is.


Pot and kettles....yeah, you know the scenario. Seems you know a thing or two about that. Last couple times I posted, you demanded I should not make posts on any thread started and claimed "yours". This came along with name calling and demands for my removal. You said something about you were all "serious" about beekeeping.

Now, you come back and reply directly to a post of mine, not giving me the same consideration you demand from me towards you. And some reference of pots and kettles did what in expanding or moving the conversation forward? For a "serious" beekeeper that see's other posts as wasting your time, I can hardly see the benefit in adding cliche sayings about pots and kettles. Although I do suspect a bit of "I'll come to the aid of another and make myself look good" playing into it. That is always good for some brownie points.

Do me a favor, keep to your own demands, and ignore any posts from me. I have been doing the same for you as requested. I did nothing wrong on this forum prior to your attacks on me, and have done nothing but honor your request since then. Can you please be serious enough to abide by your own words and demands?

Thank you. 
From the pot to the kettle.


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

TomJ.
I never said others were not right. Everything you said, I agree, they are wrong. But taking the whole "They are wrong....and because of that, I will be wrong also", might not always be the best situation. Do your neighbors need to be perfect prior to you trying to be? Or should you always take the high road, while knowing others do not? Having good neighbors means being a good neighbor. I do think that. 

I am not dismissing nasty neighbors. But I am not dismissing beekeepers for the sake that bees are some revered insects that impacts nobody outside your own property. And for beekeepers that do not want to be neighborly, and claim that the kids getting stung, or the bees at the pool are not his, when several hives are a few feet on the other side of the fence, it always makes for worse relationships. I'm just trying to point out perhaps another tactic and outcome based on taking the high road, putting your best foot forward, and expanding support for beekeeping, is happening in many communities. But I can assure you, those that are getting things done for the betterment of the bee industry, do not have the attitude that some display here. 

Fences make good neighbors. They are good for bees also. And one may keep the snowmobiles off your yard also.

Being a bad neighbior, cause youir neighbors did not live up to your expectations, makes the whole situation much worse.

This conversation started as a problem that was caused from a neighbor, and perhaps what beekeepers could do to better the situation. But I think it has turned into a "here is how you can also be a bad neighbor" to those stinking ransom seeking folks over there. How dare he say anything about my bees when his chickens crap in my yard sort of justifications. And we all know that that just does not cut it. It may be sad, but that is the way it is.

Taking the high road, even when others do not, comes back in so many ways. Even if it is just self pride and internally. But I have found out that it does pay off to be good neighbors, even when they do something questionable. Ten times they can be good. One time being bad will be remembered for years. Forgiveness means moving past re-living the same negative item over and over. Folks today just do not let things go.

And beleive me, I am not perfect in this area. Just read my post prior.


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## scrapiron (Jul 23, 2011)

HaHaHaHa, by now, everyone is well aware of how you manipulate the interpretation of peoples posts so you can stir the pot. Therefore, I am not even going to begin to defend myself against the nonsense above. It is very clear to the people of this Board how things were calm, cool, and collected until the addition of 1 member. Now instead of talking about the subject of the thread, it is all about how poor, unethical, uneducated all Beeks are.... (of course that does not include that 1 new member i refered to earlier) 
At the end of the day, it really is a shame. You are a very knowledgeable man and people COULD benefit from your experience. However your presentation stinks. Why must you come off as Holier than Thou? In your free time, (immediately) please grab a dictionary and look up _condescending_. Then once you understand that defenition, try some self help. I am sure there is an App for that! Or just come here and I will coach you along. 

In closing, it isnt who is right or who is wrong. I have had neighbors who I would gladly give a quart of honey to. Then there was those neighbors who would have gotten a quart of Maltov Cocktail. Every situation is different. Myself, I am not the type to pay hush money of any kind. But then again, I take care of my neighbors so it will hopefully will never lead to that.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I know where that quart of honey leads that you gave to all your neighbours. I have seen it first hand, to the point the bee keeper hid his hives at home. Only unloading honey supers from out yards after dark like a thief in the night.

I had fine living with no neighbour problems till they broke up the farm next door into 10 acre plots and moved in MFG houseing to make it afordable for trailer trash. Since then we have had tresspassing problems and thiefts, that loud noise the stupid worth less Peacoks make thru out the day. Wander loose gienie hens crappting on every thing and every where. 

We were less than friends well before I had bees just from the tresspassing. Warnings were scofted at. But the complaint and the fine finely were taken seiourisly. Of course my once pristine woods now has 4 types of tresspassing signs posted that have to be maintained on the two sides where the farm was broken up. There are also two huge signs on both sides of my drive way warning people not to tresspass as well to keep every thing on the up and up possiable to stop the tresspassing. 

All the neighbours who lived here when I moved in feel the same way about the newer trash and their pets that are never home.

With Michigans right to farm act they can't do any thing about my bees any more that I can stop that horriable pea cocks noise all day or the crap left behind I do not need by the fowling birds. 
spos I could turn my dogs out to deal with that problem and pratice the triple *S* method.

I'm not expecting a ransom or a bribe but I am not giving any either. Ifin ya'll want to do that then surely do it and expect to be asked for more cause their friends like free honey too.

 Al


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

There it is.........


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I don't know about your personal fued and I don't want to know. But I thought the wax moth and small hive beatle comment was both funny and apt. I have bees. I have peacocks. I have guineas and chickens and horses and cows and goats and dogs and cats and I even breed rats and snakes (for sale to pet industry) and a giant sulcatta tortoise. I have not had any honey to sell or give away yet....but when I have some I will probably gift some to some of the neighbors around the holidays. I have been living here almost 5 years, and when I have an abundance I gift to my nieghbors. I even TELL them it's a bribe. I'm bribing them to tell me first if any of my critters are a problem and give me a chance to get them under control. I tell them I'll give them the same chance, and a couple of the neighbors have had to retrieve their animals from my property (one neighbors goat is to this day still saddled with the name "Taco" cuz I threatened to eat him when he showed up here and started calling him "Taco"...the daughter he got on one of my goats is named "Chalupa")

I go out of my way to be nice to my nieghbors and hope they will do the same for me. Mostly they do~ I've had a couple problems with young people expecting I will just give stuff away~ but mostly people just laugh, thank me for the goodies and call me if they see a problem.


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## BjornBee (Jan 17, 2011)

I speak of honey as being neighborly, while others call it "Hush money" honey. It is obvious that some have larger issues at hand. For those reading this thread, perhaps understanding those other issues are at play is a nice thing rather than just reading a bunch of beekeepers who are so tight that being neighborly with a jar of honey is considered wrong and part of the norm. For those that don't have major issues with what is described as trailer trash, perhaps being neighborly and chatting bees while being nice and giving a jar of honey, might be rewarding on many levels. 

Others can read it the way they want. Getting attacked for being on a different side of an issue is not a problem to me. I'm just stating my opinion.


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## boiledfrog (Jun 2, 2011)

Offer to turn them loose.


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## Coloneldad5 (Dec 6, 2011)

Alleyyooper, I feel for you in your predicament. I lived in town and moved out just because they did something similar right next to me. I lived on the edge of town and had lots of fields/farms near by that have recently been bought up and put into numerous rental units. I left before the effects could start showing up. 

In your situation you are probably right in how you deal with your neighbors, hopefully there are at least a few who will be on your side, but the others certainly can make life miserable. I don't advocate giving away honey to bad neighbors, as to some degree there needs to be some reciprocity involved and not just free-loading. 

I would say that if the 'neighbors' animals keep "trespassing" and doing damage that you would be well within your rights to take care of the problems, even if that's utilizing the 3 S's. Subsonic .22s do work quite well as do pellet guns.


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## tom j (Apr 3, 2009)

BjornBee

Most things around here I let go but when they do not understand keep your dog ,,cat at home ..and its just here and not biting us ,, most i do is give it some exlax ,,then they deal with the dog in the house and keep it to home for a month or two ,, other things 99% of the time I just let it go ,, with the 4 wheeler I just told them if kids are out side , slow down ,,, with the snow Mobile they called the cops because my kids run in there ditch , so I told the cop to tell them to stay off of my yard ,, I have some around here that are nice but I talk to the neighbors as little as I can .. some its been 10 years some more some never have ..


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## foxtrapper (Dec 23, 2003)

DonofPaw said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> Here is the ordinance thoughts?


Get thee to the library, and read the full ordinances yourself. You will then be armed with knowledge, and will be better able to see your course of action.

Until you know the rules and laws, you are shooting blind and just guessing.


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