# Pit Bulls



## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

Do you have one??? Know one?? What do you think of the breed?

I must admit, I have always been a believer that all dogs CAN be mean. I have known tiny dogs that would have been 'put down' --had they been bigger! But when our Jack was found hiding in under the truck, trying to get away from my Dachshund and two other small dogs, I was a little bit afraid that he MIGHT be mean..

OH, was I wrong.. two yrs. later, he is a sweet, huge, lovable, BOUNCING, puppy with too much energy.... The only real command he responds to is 'sit' but I haven't given up.. We have class every day after his long run.. He gets very angry, growls, barks, acting aggressive toward only one person -- my husbands nephew... (WHICH I hate and he is trouble)!! I know when he is anywhere around--waking the edge of our property--Thanks to Jack's reaction...

I just wanted to say, I love Jack!! And if he is a rep for the breed-- I am all 'in'...


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## Threeinhub (Dec 27, 2012)

Am. Staffs, pitbulls, etc. are known to be amazing with children and wonderful family dogs. They weren't called the "nanny dog" for nothing.

They are extremely loyal and have a very high tolerance for pain. Being terriers, they can have issues with other dogs if not properly socialized around them. All of these traits have made them targets for dirt bags to fight. 

No one wants a human aggressive bully breed, not even idiots who fight them. Imagine having to go into a fighting pit to remove a human aggressive dog after a fight, not going to happen. Hums aggression is NOT standard to the breed.

Obviously, if you have a powerful terrier that hasn't been around animals or other dogs you need to be responsible. Too many owners contribute to the stereotype by doing the "he was always such a great dog, I don't know why that happened, he must have snapped" after their dog causes injury or kills another dog/animal.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

One of the reasons pit bulls have such a bad reputation is that they are fiercely loyal to their people. They don't know if their person is a good guy or a bad guy :shrug: So when the cops come busting down the door going after their person, they're willing to defend them to the death - and that means they'll go after the cops. It's not the dog's fault that their owner is a scum bag, they just know that someone is trying to hurt their person and they want to stop them.

I owned an AmStaff for all 12 short years of his life. He was the sweetest dog ever, and had a rock solid temperament..... slept under my DD's crib when she was a baby, put up with both my girls and all their antics, and was absolutely positively the best dog I've ever owned. I still miss him, every day.


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

I've never owned one, but worked with many when I worked in vet clinics. Every one I handled was sweet and well behaved. The only dogs that ever sent me for stitches were small dogs - happened twice - a Beagle and an Eskimo Spitz. The only big dogs I've ever been bit by were an injured Golden and a dying German Shepherd (both excusable in my book).

I believe many breeds are profiled by what the "bad guys" do with them. I don't remember where I read it, but a few years ago, I read an article comparing dog bite stats, and Labs had more records of attacks than Pits for a period of 5 years, yet when Pits attack, you hear about it. When other breeds attack, not so much.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Worked with many, many of them. The vast majority were people friendly but dangerously aggressive towards all together animals. And in our society, that makes them terrible pets. You add stupid people to that mix and you end up with stuff that shows on the news. But there are other dog breeds that are similar and no matter what, any dog of any breed of any raising/training can still be dangerous to people and animals alike.


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## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

We have one. She is 9 years old. She went blind a couple years ago so now she is a couch potato, but the sweetest dog ever! Before she went blind she was a GREAT farm dog. She protected me a few times from cows that would get too close. She also helped move the cows when we needed. She also hated if our bulls would fight and would break it up if they got too rough. I can't say enough good about the breed. She is great with my smaller dogs and my children and my granddaughter. If a stranger came to the door, her bark makes them hesitate, but once invited inside, she is a great greeter and begs for attention.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I have never had one, and honestly probably wouldn't. But if she is 9, blind, and has been altered (like the one in bknth post) then even I would take a chance on the dog. She is probably pretty mellow by this age.
Honestly though, it would be extremely rare for me to even consider having one. It would have to be extraordinary circumstances.


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## simplerlife (Nov 25, 2012)

We have a pit mix that we adopted from the pound when she was about 6 weeks old. Hard to tell what she's mixed with. She's 3 now and the best dog I've ever had. Great with the kids, even little ones. Doesn't bark unnecessarily and smart as a whip. 

We have a 7 year old golden / chocolate lab mix and she's a much better dog than he is and we've worked with him more than her.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

The majority of "pitbulls" seen in homes and on the streets are mutts. You can have extreme variances in temperament. We could argue all day wether an am staff is a pit or not. I am in the opinion they are not any longer. There have been a lot of long discussions on this forum if you do a search. Anyone who owns one should know how to use a break stick and stop a fight but very few people do and thats when things turn real ugly. Don't be surprised if you have multiple dogs and one day your pit kills one over a minor scuffle. Loving a dog doesn't change the history of the breed and I don't believe they have place in a pet home. They should be kept by hunting guides and as working dogs where they are needed. Many owners think they can stop a dog attack but when the attack happens they are at a loss as to how to get it to release its grip. Everything has been tried to get them to release their grip and the only thing that works is a bite stick. Most people can't take the responsibility of owning one of these dogs seriously enough.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I really want a little Staffy Bull.


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## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

Jack is a mix.. The vet said-- his best guess is Pit and English Setter... But we love him--no matter the mix.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

I would NEVER own a put bull, too much tendency to go violent. I used to work with animal rescues and the rescue coordinator was a die hard pit bull fan. One day she came in with 30 stitches in her face. 

She had been sitting on the couch watching a movie with her pit bull on her lap when the dog snapped and turned abound and bit her in the face. The dog was put midtown and she would no longer recommend the breed.

I've heard way to many stories like this. I will never allow a pit bull or similar breed in my home.


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## lordoftheweeds (Dec 27, 2012)

It seems that there are more pits causing serious damage than other breeds in relation to the overall numbers of dog breeds. Numbers do not lie.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

That's because pit bulls are the most overbred dogs in various areas of the city. That's why the numbers are so high. I used to have a pit bull that I had two litters off on. All of her pups went towards hunting homes (catch dogs on hogs) and have heard all rave news about them. Never had an dog aggressive pit yet but know some day it may happen. Right now, I'm looking for one for catch dog work and has to be registered (just my preference).


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## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

I can say this with great honesty--- My parents had a Chihuahua which was the meanest, nastiest dog that ever walked this earth. He would bite anyone and everyone except my mother. My sister in the face --7 stitches, he ripped the skin off my uncles pointing finger --11 stitches. Twice he took hunks out of my brother. He would dig out of the fence to visit the neighbors dog (always in heat) and my parents would send us after him... He would bite anyone ---including the neighbors who tried to catch him... He caught the mailman on the leg--ripping pants and skin! He would pee on men's legs/shoes if they sat close to my mom... I ,honestly, believe had he weighed 20lbs, he would have killed someone but at 5lbs. he wasn't seen as a threat!


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

Overbreeding does not make an aggressive dog. Compare the op most dangerous dogs to the top most popular dogs. I don't see the correlation with over breeding and agressiveness...

Top most dangerous dogs...

1, Pit Bull
Varieties included: Pit Bull, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, American StaffordshireTerrier 
Registered dogs (U.S.): 2,683 
Child victims: 661 
Adult victims: 519 
Maimings: 819 
Deaths: 159

2, Chow Chow
Registered dogs (U.S.): 1,592 
Child victims: 35 
Adult victims: 14 
Maimings: 34 
Deaths: 7

3, Rottweiler
Registered dogs (U.S.): 14,709 
Child victims: 257 
Adult victims: 115 
Maimings: 244 
Deaths: 67

4, Akita
Registered dogs (U.S.): 2,457 
Child victims: 34 
Adult victims: 14 
Maimings: 41 
Deaths: 1

Most popular dogs



Labrador Retrievers	
German Shepherd Dogs	
Beagles	
Golden Retrievers	
Yorkshire Terriers


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## kentuckyhippie (May 29, 2004)

I have a 4 year old blue pitbull that I adopted 2 years ago. He was rescued when a dog fight ring was busted. he was being used as a bait dog to train the fighters on so the guy had cut his canine teeth out with bolt cutters so he couldnt actually kill the other dog. when I got him the poor guy was nearly starved to death. his mouth was infected and he couldn't eat. he only weighed 45 pounds and was so weak I had to carry him to the truck. we went straight to my vet, got antibiotics and I spent the first 2 weeks spooning baby food and yogurt down him until his mouth healed. now he's a romping 105 pounds of pure love. not an agressive bone in him. I have a cat that sleeps with him and shares his food and I've never seen him even growl at him. He does dislike men but I've never seen him act overly agressive, he just growls and stands in front of the door until I tell him that its ok then he's fine with who ever comes in. I treasure that about him because I'm alone since my husband passed away and this isn't the best of neighborhoods for a single old lady. He is loving inspite of the way he was treated. I hope he lives as long as I do but if he doesn't I will probably get another one.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

NamasteMama said:


> Overbreeding does not make an aggressive dog. Compare the op most dangerous dogs to the top most popular dogs. I don't see the correlation with over breeding and agressiveness...
> 
> Top most dangerous dogs...
> 
> ...


Can you cite your source of info? Because I see some major problems with numbers.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Threeinhub said:


> Am. Staffs, pitbulls, etc. are known to be amazing with children and wonderful family dogs. They weren't called the "nanny dog" for nothing.
> 
> They are extremely loyal and have a very high tolerance for pain. Being terriers, they can have issues with other dogs if not properly socialized around them. All of these traits have made them targets for dirt bags to fight.
> 
> ...


You are mistaken, several famous game dogs were man biters. Their awe inspiring traits come from being bred to fight not the other way around. All kinds of reasons dogs "snap" brain tumors, brain injury & just plain brain defect are all common enough. Another problem is that A LOT of what is called pit bulls are crosses w/ mastiff breeds that were bred for man work.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

NamasteMama said:


> Overbreeding does not make an aggressive dog. Compare the op most dangerous dogs to the top most popular dogs. I don't see the correlation with over breeding and agressiveness...
> 
> Top most dangerous dogs...
> 
> ...


Your source is defective. There are a heck of a lot more than 2600 registered am staffs let alone combining all three breeds. And no yearly death toll from all dogs combined has reached triple digits EVER.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

kentuckyhippie said:


> I have a 4 year old blue pitbull that I adopted 2 years ago. He was rescued when a dog fight ring was busted. he was being used as a bait dog to train the fighters on so the guy had cut his canine teeth out with bolt cutters so he couldnt actually kill the other dog. when I got him the poor guy was nearly starved to death. his mouth was infected and he couldn't eat. he only weighed 45 pounds and was so weak I had to carry him to the truck. we went straight to my vet, got antibiotics and I spent the first 2 weeks spooning baby food and yogurt down him until his mouth healed. now he's a romping 105 pounds of pure love. not an agressive bone in him. I have a cat that sleeps with him and shares his food and I've never seen him even growl at him. He does dislike men but I've never seen him act overly agressive, he just growls and stands in front of the door until I tell him that its ok then he's fine with who ever comes in. I treasure that about him because I'm alone since my husband passed away and this isn't the best of neighborhoods for a single old lady. He is loving inspite of the way he was treated. I hope he lives as long as I do but if he doesn't I will probably get another one.


See this is part of the problem, no such thing as 100# plus pit bull. What you have is a bulldog & Neapolitan mastiff mix.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Notice the victims out numbers the maimings and deaths. Wouldn't they add up to the same ? These numbers are made up.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

Pops2 said:


> Your source is defective. There are a heck of a lot more than 2600 registered am staffs let alone combining all three breeds. And no yearly death toll from all dogs combined has reached triple digits EVER.


Who said anything about yearly totals? This is compiled data over 10 years I believe, dont quote me on it. I went by the AKC, they seem to be fairly reputable and I would have no reason to doubt them. This site has further information.... http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/11/03/most-dangerous-dog-breeds.html The numbers dont lie, Pit Bulls are dangerous.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

PITBULL myths.... http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-myths.php
Myth #4: Fatal attack statistics about pit bulls are false
Pro-pit bull groups argue that the 20-year fatal dog attack study (from 1979 to 1998) issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in September 2000 is inaccurate because the study relied "in part" on newspaper articles. Pit bull advocates say that pit bull fatalities are more extensively reported by the media, therefore the authors of the study (most holding PhD credentials) must have "miscounted" or "double counted" the number of pit bull fatalities.10
As stated in the CDC report, the authors collected data from media accounts as well as the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) registry of fatal attacks. Also, all five authors, Jeffrey Sacks, Leslie Sinclair, Julie Gilchrist, Gail Golab and Randall Lockwood, openly oppose breed-specific laws. This bias is clearly reflected in the CDC report as well.11 If discrepancies were made in the report, it seems more likely that fatal pit bull attacks were underreported not over reported.

From 2005 to 2011, pit bulls killed 128 Americans, about one citizen every 20 days. Of these attacks, 51% (65) involved a family member and a household pit bull.4 In the first 8 months of 2011, nearly half of those killed by a pit bull was its owner -- one was even an "avid supporter" of Bad Rap, a recipient of Michael Vick's dogs.5


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

Myth #2: It's impossible to identify a pit bull
Pit bull advocates frequently claim that the average person cannot correctly identify a pit bull. As discussed in the Pit Bull FAQ, the pit bull is a class of dogs made up of several close breeds (See: What is a pit bull type dog?). This false claim is designed to confuse the public just as the pit bull breed's history of changing names is intended to do (See: Disguise breed name). As recently told to us by a top U.S. animal control enforcement officer, "If it looks like a pit bull, it usually is."


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

Newfoundland is the dog breed known as the nanny dog not pitbulls... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_(dog)

http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html
Nanny Dog Myth Revealed
From 2004 to 2010 59 US children were killed by the family's, babysitter's, neighbor's or friend's pit bull.

The pit bull apologia would have you believe that their fighting bred dogs are just like any other dog in many ways, but so superior in their unparalleled love and devotion for children they were commonly known as "The Nanny Dog" throughout the late 19th and early 20th centuries. If pit bulls are held in low esteem today, it is only due to ignorance and the gullible acceptance of biased news reporting because, once upon a time, pit bulls were the most beloved dog in England and the United States.

A google search brings up 77,100 results for the term "nanny dog." While some sites bestow the Nanny Dog mantle on the American Pit Bull Terrier or the American Staffordshire Terrier and some lead you to productions of Peter Pan, most of the results lead you to 21st century blogs and news articles about the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

120 sites dedicated to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier include this phrase in support of the fighting nanny dog mythology,
"These dogs were renowned for their courage and tenacity and despite their ferocity in the pit were excellent companions and good with children. In fact it was not unknown for an injured dog to be transported home in a pram with the baby!"
Frankly, even if this anecdote were plausible, let alone true, this doesn't support a nanny dog claim so much as it supports a sociopathic, baby abusing, dog abusing, parent claim.

REad more at link...


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## 91redford (Sep 20, 2012)

I did a rescue on a pit pup a few years back, his owner died suddenly and the little guy was left in the house for several days, i never thought i'd be a pit bull type having Australian cattle dogs, red & blue healers for the last decade or so, but i can honestly say he is one of the best dogs i have ever had, he is supper loving to everyone in the family and even cuddles the kittens in front of the stove where he sleeps. he gets along with the old cattle dog, calamity jane, she hated him at first but has grown to like him. his personality is as big as his chest. i love big blu.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

No wonder the stats you quote are way off from fact. The anti-dog ownership site and a anti-pitbull page you quote from is a great source of reliable unbiased info right? If a person actually takes the time to read that stuff they should be able to see right through it. Its almost as off the wall as PETA and HSUS propaganda. Its funny how most experts in the breed have never owned one.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

The site is not an anti dog site your comment is inaccurate. I'm no expert, but I was a foster to a pit, only one and it bit someone it instantly was put down. I have worked with rescues and the animal control. I have heard and seen too many horror stories, I know that they are dangerous and I will never own one.

I have owned mastiff, Great Danes , Pyrenees, a lab, chihuahua, and fostered many other breeds. This is the one breed that will never cross my door step again,


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Then what is it? Just because something is posted on the internet does means its correct information. I know the history of that site and how it got started and who created it. Its full of inaccuracies intended to cause knee jerk reaction which obviously works. Every breed you list you have owned has killed someone as well except maybe the chihuahua. Its all how dogs are handled. I have had many dogs and none have sat on my lap. Anyone with a little dog knowledge should know why your rescue coordinators dog bit her in the face. That wasn't a breed issue, the dog shouldn't be on her lap in the first place. 

You posted a quote from dogbite.org saying that 128 Americans were killed by pits from 2005-2010. The fact is 149 people were killed by dogs total in that period and 70 of them were pitbull type dogs. Pitbull type is like saying hound, it could be one of numerous breeds. The website your quoting from almost doubled the number.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

lordoftheweeds said:


> It seems that there are more pits causing serious damage than other breeds in relation to the overall numbers of dog breeds. Numbers do not lie.


Come work with me for a day and watch alll the cute little Poodles, Westies, and little lap terriers try to rip your face off. I would work with a Pit any day over a Pei or a Chow if we are talking about large breeds. Heck I would trade in every Lab I work with for a Pit too. Around here Labs are all huge, hyper, snappy and passive aggressive with no brains.

One day groomers and vets will start reporting dog bites, then Shih Tzus and Poodles will be banned, and people will be in shock and awe when the sky high numbers come in  For now, we just keep taking the snapping hits in silence.


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## Joe.G (Jun 26, 2012)

I have had pit's and my sister does now, They are sweet dog's and are great pet's, there are of course problems, they come from poor breeding ( just like any other dog can have ) they are also most of the time owned by people who could care less about the dog but want the image, They are also often times living in homes that should not have children or dog's and they have plenty of each. We go on calls all of the time and I hate to say it but in the lower class neighbor hoods it seems like everyone has a pit or a pit mix ( Most seem to be mixed or bred to be way out of standard ). The parents do not watch there children and they also do not train there dogs.

I would say to any one looking for a pit for the right reasons such as working dog or family pet, find a good breeder.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

NamasteMama said:


> Overbreeding does not make an aggressive dog.


I completely agree with your list of dangerous dogs. But I disagree with the statement above. Overbreeding does add to aggressiveness because they breed ANY dog instead of filtering out the aggressive ones. That's why cockerspaniels became so nippy. Way back when they were so overbred none of the biters were filtered out. Same with labs now. They have been so overbred that they do cause a lot of bites. If people just breed any dog willy nilly without taking temperament into account then it escalates the numbers of those with poor temperaments. Cockerspaniel rage says it all. That is why so many buff ones became so mean. Back when Lady and the Tramp started the popularity, and the President had one people bred the buff red ones wildly with no thought of temperament of the dogs.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Most people who have stories about pit bulls have never owned a pit bull. Most would not be able to pick a pit bull out of a line up of 20 other breeds and mixes.
When a person speaks about a pit bull over 100 pounds they are not talking about a pit bull. At best it is only part pit bull and pit bull is not the dominate breed.
When people talk about blue pit bulls they are usually not talking about pit bulls. There are very few blue pit bulls. The majority of blue pit bulls are crossbreeds of several breeds.
Most people think a pit bull is a short, stocky, large, dog with a big head. That is about the last thing a pit bull would look like.

It is very hard to carry on an intelligent conversation about something when people are talking about different animals. The person who is using the AKC for info on the pit bull is very mixed up. The AKC does not register or even recognize the pit bull, never has and probably never will. The number of pit bulls is another joke. I personally know people who own more that that number.

At one time someone on this forum put up a quiz that showed different breeds of dogs including 1 pit bull. If you do a search you can see how many people could actually pick out the pit bull from the other breeds. I can give you a hint. Very few people can describe a pit bull or pick it out.


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## NamasteMama (Jul 24, 2009)

Rally you know someone who owns more than 2000 pitbulls? I find that very hard to believe........


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## Kel T (Aug 19, 2011)

There will always be Am Pit Bulls in my home. Always. I have 4 at the moment, one is my service dog and is invaluable to me. People that sit there and spout nonsense about the breed has allowed PETA, HSUS, and various other anti breed groups spoon feed crap to them.

This breed is the same as any other. If you get a dog from questionable breeding or one with another breed mixed in, you don't know what you're getting. I only deal with well bred lines and they are bred for temperament. 

I have been raised with the breed and they have been in my life for 43 years, both game bred dogs as well as the more laid back ones. Have I ever been bit. Yes, once. My fault, I accidently sat on him and he nipped and immediately rolled over in submission, he knew he'd done wrong by putting his mouth on me. I have been bit by Boxers, Aussies, Goldens, GSD, Dachshunds, Chis, and several other breeds. 

Have I ever had one of my dogs kill another? No. I do know that the possibility is there. My DH's Boxer killed his Aussie, should that breed be banned?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

NamasteMama said:


> Rally you know someone who owns more than 2000 pitbulls? I find that very hard to believe........


You will notice I said people, not person.
I do know quite a few that have over 100.
At one time I had over 100.

Notice the number you posted that were in the U.S. I know of more than that just counting the people I know.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Kel T said:


> There will always be Am Pit Bulls in my home. Always. I have 4 at the moment, one is my service dog and is invaluable to me. People that sit there and spout nonsense about the breed has allowed PETA, HSUS, and various other anti breed groups spoon feed crap to them.
> 
> This breed is the same as any other. If you get a dog from questionable breeding or one with another breed mixed in, you don't know what you're getting. I only deal with well bred lines and they are bred for temperament.
> 
> ...


In the last 50 years there has been quite a bit of difference in the pit bull and the am bull. Most people do not even consider them the same breed nowdays.
Lots of people make the mistake of thinking just because a dog is not what they want in a dog that it is a result of poor breeding. Very few actually take the time to research what the breed was developed for. Their opinion of a poorly bred dog may be one that fits the standard very well.

One thing people should learn is the pit bull is not like other breeds. This idea has caused many attacks to people and other animals. The pit bull has been selective bred to be a warrior. Hundreds of years of selective breeding for strong aggressive dogs have produced a strong aggressive dog. They are just about as far from other dog breeds as a cat is.

People will learn, if they do a little research, that the problems with pit bull attacks only started when some people decided the pit bull was like other breeds. Before that time they weren't any pit bull attacks. The people who had them knew what they were capable of and knew how to handle them. The people who think they are just like any other breed do not know what to do when their lovable pit bull does exactly what they were bred to do.

Take a few minutes to see who owns the pit bulls you read about attacking people and other animals. You will not find a single one owned by people who have raised pit bulls for years. It is only the people who think the pit bull is just like other breeds and it is all in how you raise them that has a dog that makes the headlines.

Most people can't even control an am staff much less a pit bull. They should do more research than looking at a single dog or two that may not even have any pit bull blood in them before making any decision that could cause the death of another person or animal.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Any dog can bite, and any dog can be aggressive toward people or other animals.

It is my perception, and no I don't have links or facts about this, but it would seem to me that chihuahuas and poodles, while many are bitee little jerks, don't kill people when they do bite.

My Lab, or my Newfoundland, have the capacity to bite; what they do NOT have are the vice like jaws of a pit, the pound-per-inch of pressure, or the instinct to attack until the offending thing is dead. To me, that is the difference, and I know lots of people have great pitbulls. But I would never have one, because I have children, other pets and livestock; every pitbull is said to be someone's sweet pet, until it isn't.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Boxers are known to be friendly and good natured but aren't their jaws about as strong as a Pit Bull?


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

I don't know, it's almost impossible to find accurate information, and numbers, that aren't leaning in the direction of the writer's position on the issue.

Every decade, there is a breed that is demonized in the media, and then the criminals and reprobates get that breed, neglect them or teach them to be mean, which bolsters the argument that said dog is terrible, and on it goes.

My husband doesn't like German Shepherds, and would never agree to have one; he thinks they are mean. So, perception is everything, and everyone has an opinion about every breed, I guess.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

gapeach said:


> Boxers are known to be friendly and good natured but aren't their jaws about as strong as a Pit Bull?


Boxers do not have much power in their bite.
Just look at the nose and jaws. Nothing there to have strength.
Most boxers cannot even break the skin if they bite.


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## Shayanna (Aug 1, 2012)

My grandmother is always saying, "Did you see that pitbull on the news that mauled that baby?" Did you see that pitbull...yada yada yada. What it all boils down to is that people continue to say, "that dog is part of my family." "I could trust that dog with anybody," and they forget that a dog is an animal. No matter the breed, statistics, WHATEVER, a dog is an animal. Why are you trusting your newborn with an animal? I have a pitbull lab mix, more pit than lab. He is a sweetheart and is better behaved than our lab/beagle mix. And alot nicer. Does that mean he will EVER be in a room alone with my infant daughter no. And not until she is old enough to stand her ground will she ever be alone with either of our dogs.


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## Kel T (Aug 19, 2011)

pancho said:


> Boxers do not have much power in their bite.
> Just look at the nose and jaws. Nothing there to have strength.
> Most boxers cannot even break the skin if they bite.


 
This one sure broke the skin. Went to the bone right above my ankle. This Boxer is my DH's dog and although it's papered, I'm really wondering what is in this dog's line. She is turned differently than any Boxer I've been around.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Boxers have a bite just like any other bulldog. They might not have a real strong bite but if they get hold they won't let go. Even a weak bite is usually strong enough that a human isn't going to get them to release till they want too. They don't do much damage though.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

heres links to two of the greatest *TRUE* pitbulls to ever grace the earth. this is their pedigrees and if you click on other dogs in the peds. you will see pics of them also

Grand Champion ZEBO
http://www.apbtpedigrees.net/printpedigree/out.php?recordID=553&l=english&gen=4&w=1366&h=768
Champion JEEP
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=2

these are great examples of what a real pitbull is. was. and looks like. small dogs. not very impressive looking, esp. by todays distorted viewpoint. 
most everything seen today is a mere shadow of this type of dog. a poor representation, bred for looks only. 
ive owned many APBT through the yrs. ive even raised and sold the infamous blue pits but quit 6-7 yrs ago. they and most you see now adays are a joke. either way. i would never leave a small child, or have other pets around these dogs, or any dog for that matter. IMO a homestead is no place for a pitbull. a real one or the offshoots seen today. they do not generally do well with other pets, or animals.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

> Take a few minutes to see who owns the pit bulls you read about attacking people and other animals. You will not find a single one owned by people who have raised pit bulls for years. It is only the people who think the pit bull is just like other breeds and it is all in how you raise them that has a dog that makes the headlines.


no truer statement than this.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The reason I asked is because Boxers are known to be strong chewers, eating on trees and sticks,plus just about everything else. 

Back to German Shepherds, I was attacked by a German Shepherd when I was a child. He was a WWII dog brought home from Germany by a soldier. I might have mentioned this here before but I never wanted a GSD.
We were given a GSD puppy when my daughter got married. I was going to be home alone because my husband traveled. That was the most friendly dog I have ever known in my life. He would not even bark at a stranger. He had the greatest personality and my daughter had twin babies. I would not let him in the same room with them til he was almost 3 and my daughter insisted that he started interacting with them. He was a gentle giant with them. He was so funny, he would get down to their level and adored them. My husband just insisted we keep this pup and he was a great love in our lives. We still miss him.

I have never known a Pit Bull only a few mixes. I know that they can be great pets though. I would never let a small child be around any dog alone.


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## BlueCollarBelle (Oct 26, 2011)

Our foster fail, Zane is a pit/boxer mix, far as we can tell. If he is representative of either or both breeds, I will never own another kind! He is an amazing dog.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Dead Rabbit said:


> heres links to two of the greatest *TRUE* pitbulls to ever grace the earth. this is their pedigrees and if you click on other dogs in the peds. you will see pics of them also
> 
> Grand Champion ZEBO
> http://www.apbtpedigrees.net/printpedigree/out.php?recordID=553&l=english&gen=4&w=1366&h=768
> ...


Notice what it says about Zebo. Man biter. People who had the pit bulls back then could handle the dogs. If it was a good pit dog it was not culled because it was man aggressive.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Kel T said:


> This one sure broke the skin. Went to the bone right above my ankle. This Boxer is my DH's dog and although it's papered, I'm really wondering what is in this dog's line. She is turned differently than any Boxer I've been around.


Lots of boxers are aggressive dogs. They just don't have the strength and power to do much.
If you look at the skeleton of a boxer, really any of the pug nosed breeds, you will see they don't have much there to bite with. The teeth do not line up well enough, are weak, and will come out of the jaw very easily.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I never knew that before about the pug nosed breeds. My dog has that nose.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

I like pit bulls, they're just not the breed for me - way too much energy for my lifestyle.

However, 99% of the pits I have come across have been absolutely wonderful animals.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

another aspect about pits that may deter some from gettting them. 

most homeowners insurance companies do not cover them. in fact there is a list of dogs that they wont cover. and they will drop you and not cover claims if you are found to have one on the list. in this sue happy world that is something to consider. 

there are companies that cover these dogs but you pay high premiums for them. this is one reason i got rid of all my pits. that and i have other animals now that the two just dont co-inhabitat together to well.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

gapeach said:


> I never knew that before about the pug nosed breeds. My dog has that nose.


I can't remember where but there is someplace on the internet that shows the skeleton of the head of different breeds of dogs.
When you see the way the jaws line up and the short muzzle it is a lot easier to understand.
Sort of like a pry bar. If you have a short pry bar it isn't going to move much.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

pancho said:


> Notice what it says about Zebo. Man biter. People who had the pit bulls back then could handle the dogs. If it was a good pit dog it was not culled because it was man aggressive.



in ed farnon's book it said zebo was known to bite several people. i cant remeber how many, and i dont have the book any longer. but he was tolerated because of his awsome ability. most biters were put down if they didnt prove them selves spectacular.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Dead Rabbit said:


> another aspect about pits that may deter some from gettting them.
> 
> most homeowners insurance companies do not cover them. in fact there is a list of dogs that they wont cover. and they will drop you and not cover claims if you are found to have one on the list. in this sue happy world that is something to consider.
> 
> there are companies that cover these dogs but you pay high premiums for them. this is one reason i got rid of all my pits. that and i have other animals now that the two just dont co-inhabitat together to well.


I know several people who have real pit bulls and tell their insurance companies they are a mixed breed stray that they found. Most people don't know what they look like anyway.

I can understand not having them when you have other animals. People just don't understand what a 40 pound dog can do, until it is too late.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Dead Rabbit said:


> in ed farnon's book it said zebo was known to bite several people. i cant remeber how many, and i dont have the book any longer. but he was tolerated because of his awsome ability. most biters were put down if they didnt prove them selves spectacular.


Take a look at Bullyson.
The handelers carried clubs into some of his matches.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

ive always heard that those that were man biters were said to be curs at heart. bullyson proved it. they said zebo turned when against greaser. but didnt quit.

thats the problem with alot of the dogs now adays. theyve been bred for appearance sake only, which means alot of cur has been allowed to stay in the lines. not to mention, their athletic ability is nil to none now adays.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Dead Rabbit said:


> ive always heard that those that were man biters were said to be curs at heart. bullyson proved it. they said zebo turned when against greaser. but didnt quit.
> 
> thats the problem with alot of the dogs now adays. theyve been bred for appearance sake only, which means alot of cur has been allowed to stay in the lines. not to mention, their athletic ability is nil to none now adays.


Too many different stories about Bullyson for me to make any decision on him. I tried some dogs down from him but they didn't impress me much.

Not many game dogs now days. Some people say they have game bred dogs but there is a lot of difference in game dogs and game bred dogs.
Breeding for color and looks has ruined the breed.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

some more old school pictures of pits.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l7DuPve7yI[/ame]


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Dead Rabbit said:


> in ed farnon's book it said zebo was known to bite several people. i cant remeber how many, and i dont have the book any longer. but he was tolerated because of his awsome ability. most biters were put down if they didnt prove them selves spectacular.


Most bulldogs were put down if they weren't game.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Kel T said:


> This one sure broke the skin. Went to the bone right above my ankle. This Boxer is my DH's dog and although it's papered, I'm really wondering what is in this dog's line. She is turned differently than any Boxer I've been around.


Could be a throw back. The original boxers were built similar to a large pit bulldog about 50-60#good depth of chest but the head was a little blockier. They would have been right at home on a hogs ear right beside an American bulldog or dogo.


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## SageLady (Jun 10, 2008)

I was attacked by a German Shepherd when I was 12 years old. I've never forgotten it and I still am very scared whenever I see one even though I know it's not rational that every German Shepherd is bad. I know most are wonderful dogs. The same goes for other so called "aggressive" dogs, including pitbulls. Plenty of good ones out there, more good than bad...


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

the owner ofa dog (or any animal) that has the potential to do damage must have the ability to control that animail . my dogs are working partners with me on the farm and have to do here job protecting the livestock and have to free range the homestead I don't need to worry about meer readers or mushroom hunters and lost hikers being mangled if I had a junk yard or treasure or life to protect in a dangerious area or if hunting and catching wild hogs these would be the the breed of choise . I would NOT recommend a bull dog by any name as a farm dog or as a childs pet it just not worth the chance .that is not what they are bred for .in a fenced inclosed yard they are great guard dogs .I,m sure there are exceptions just as there are hounds that won't hunt .


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

lordoftheweeds said:


> It seems that there are more pits causing serious damage than other breeds in relation to the overall numbers of dog breeds. Numbers do not lie.


Most years lightning kills more people than ALL DOGS combined. Numbers do not lie.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

NamasteMama said:


> Who said anything about yearly totals? This is compiled data over 10 years I believe, dont quote me on it. I went by the AKC, they seem to be fairly reputable and I would have no reason to doubt them. This site has further information.... http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/11/03/most-dangerous-dog-breeds.html The numbers dont lie, Pit Bulls are dangerous.


ALL dogs are dangerous. Children have been killed by Yorkeies, poodles, & Pomeranians.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

NamasteMama said:


> The site is not an anti dog site your comment is inaccurate. I'm no expert, but I was a foster to a pit, only one and it bit someone it instantly was put down. I have worked with rescues and the animal control. I have heard and seen too many horror stories, I know that they are dangerous and I will never own one.
> 
> I have owned mastiff, Great Danes , Pyrenees, a lab, chihuahua, and fostered many other breeds. This is the one breed that will never cross my door step again,


All of your breeds have killed people, Danes especially have killed more than most people realize. Go look at the actual CDC study.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Pops2 said:


> Most bulldogs were put down if they weren't game.


Nowdays it is just the opposite. Any dog that shows a sign of gameness is put down.
It is easy to see what that has done to the breed.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

While its sad to see a breed no longer able to do what it was originally bred to do, in today's society there really isn't a place for a really game dog. Too many people, too many cities, too many lawsuits, too many ignorant people keeping pets of every breed. In terms of the survivability long term of a breed it may have to be bred away from its original use and into a good pet, although many will argue it can no longer be the breed without those characteristics. 

I realized 40 years ago, when I started breeding, that a good solid pet temperament was the single most important thing in breeding in today's world. Even so it wasn't always easy to get, even in a sporting breed (English Setters) with overall sweet temperaments. 

The gameness in a terrier breed is something I respect, but had to breed away from in my Silkys, because they are not used to hunt, but as family pets. I still had to be careful because even the most carefully bred would sometimes be dog aggressive and my own dogs had to be managed to protect them from fighting and harming each other. When I first started breeding them some 20 years ago, many Silkys were just plain nasty, reactive and biting people. That was one of my top priorities working with the breed, to try to get a sweeter temperament. 

I no longer breed or show dogs and lost my last two Silkys this winter at ages 15 and 16. I will say they were physically tough little dogs that didn't give up easily at all. I miss my girls! Now, for the first time in 40 years, I have only ONE dog, my smooth Collie. It is very strange. 

She has more of a working temperament and I find her to be the smartest dog I've ever owned, very willing, but a challenge as I am older and less fit and she needs to be busy DOING something, or she will come up with something to do...  She is a hoot though.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

this is the quiz Pancho mentioned. Its interesting to see how many dogs resemble what most of us think are pit bulls, when REAL pit bulls are actually fairly small and very lean dogs with moderate sized heads.....not the 100+ block headed dogs that are usually labeled as pit bulls.


The reason the statistics say pit bull maulings are so high is because the media tends to lump all large headed dogs into the "pit bull" group. There are a TON of large headed dogs out there, most of which are NOT pit bulls or Amstaffs. 

My pit bull Bailey was the best dog I have ever had. I have Roxy now, dual registered (UKC pit bull, AKC Amstaff) and she is going to be a fantastic dog too.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Haven said:


> Come work with me for a day and watch alll the cute little Poodles, Westies, and little lap terriers try to rip your face off. I would work with a Pit any day over a Pei or a Chow if we are talking about large breeds.


Same here! I've worked with dogs professionally for over 20 years, and I've never had a problem with any pit bull type dog. I won't even touch a Chow and Shar Peis, while not as aggressive as Chows, are near impossible to do anything with.



> One day groomers and vets will start reporting dog bites, then Shih Tzus and Poodles will be banned, and people will be in shock and awe when the sky high numbers come in


No kidding. Miniature Poodles, Lhasas and a good many Terriers will suddenly be the most dangerous dogs in America. 



GrannyCarol said:


> While its sad to see a breed no longer able to do what it was originally bred to do, in today's society there really isn't a place for a really game dog. Too many people, too many cities, too many lawsuits, too many ignorant people keeping pets of every breed. In terms of the survivability long term of a breed it may have to be bred away from its original use and into a good pet, although many will argue it can no longer be the breed without those characteristics.


I hate to say it, but I totally agree. There simply isn't a place in our society for a game dog. If only knowledgable people owned them, it would be one thing--but we have punks and wannabes and gang-bangers owning and breeding the heck out of these "Pit Bulls", throwing them away, and breeding more... our shelters are overflowing with Pit Bull types. Everyone who owns a Pit Bull, regardless of whether it is breedworthy or even registered, thinks it MUST be bred. Every Pit Bull I see walking around either has testicles or hanging teats... it's weird, it's like these people think the dogs have a "right" to breed, regardless of health, temperament, or anything else. It's got to stop.



> When I first started breeding them some 20 years ago, many Silkys were just plain nasty, reactive and biting people. That was one of my top priorities working with the breed, to try to get a sweeter temperament.


Thank you!! Too bad other breeders don't have this idea. I have groomed a couple of Silkies and they were NASTY little dogs--I swear, they were just a set of teeth connected to a body. One of them had to be muzzled the whole time. I'd rather groom a Pit Bull than a Silky any day!


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

NamasteMama said:


> PITBULL myths.... http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-myths.php
> Myth #4: Fatal attack statistics about pit bulls are false
> Pro-pit bull groups argue that the 20-year fatal dog attack study (from 1979 to 1998) issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in September 2000 is inaccurate because the study relied "in part" on newspaper articles. Pit bull advocates say that pit bull fatalities are more extensively reported by the media, therefore the authors of the study (most holding PhD credentials) must have "miscounted" or "double counted" the number of pit bull fatalities.10
> As stated in the CDC report, the authors collected data from media accounts as well as the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) registry of fatal attacks. Also, all five authors, Jeffrey Sacks, Leslie Sinclair, Julie Gilchrist, Gail Golab and Randall Lockwood, openly oppose breed-specific laws. This bias is clearly reflected in the CDC report as well.11 If discrepancies were made in the report, it seems more likely that fatal pit bull attacks were underreported not over reported.
> ...


You do realize that the paper by Sacks, Sinclair & Gilchrist failed peer review based almost solely on their admitted use of news media breed ID. Unlike Pinckney & Kennedy who required positive ID by a vet, humane society or registration papers from the attacking dogs' owners. Even the study Sacks et al piggy backed on insisted on positive breed ID. Sacks et al actually went back and changed the previous numbers by using media ID. Further their "study" was not officially commissioned by the CDC, they did it on their own time it used their CDC employment to give it credibility. Other aspects of the failure in credibility is the simple fact they arbitrarily combined THREE breeds to achieve consistent levels of attacks. But that goes back to Pinckney & Kennedy who ID them all as bullterriers. Interesting point is that the period covered by Pinckney & Kennedy (75-80) showed all bullterrier breeds combined in the same number of fatal attacks as Danes. That was also the period during which the HSUS began its publicity campaign to ban dog fighting. There is a MARKED increase in bull breed attacks following this period in the 80s. It's is also the time frame where ownership of the breeds moved away from the oldtime dogmen and country people keeping them as working dogs to urban & suburban dwellers keeping them as pets.
Also interestingly enough, if you look historically breeds that become popular in those same environments see rises in attacks reported in the media and calls for bans. For example dobermans & German sheperds in the late 50-early70s had widely reported attacks and calls for bans. Likewise Airedales between the world wars experienced the same thing.
The real insanity is that "pit bull TYPE" dogs kill less people than LIGHTNING (20-30 a year), DEER (200+ a year) or assault rifles. That's right pit bulls kill less people than the Aurora CO shooter. They kill A LOT less than deer but no one is advocating the eradication of Bambi and his murderous kin. Anybody want to ban lightning strikes? We should do it for the children.


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## Kel T (Aug 19, 2011)

Pops2, I think the Boxer is a throwback. She isn't typey at all, doesn't have the smashed in face of most Boxers. She is a big headed thing, built like a brick out house and just 'odd' for want of a better word. We've had 4 other Boxers over the years and none of them were anything like her. With her build and gameness, she'd make a good hog dog. I've always thought that and would love to have tried her, but she and I don't mix well for some reason.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

BarbadosSheep said:


> http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
> .


I got it right on the first try, although I had to stare at the dog next to the correct dog for a solid minute to decide for sure. I think some of the dogs in the survey are poorly bred, which makes it harder to choose - most of the dogs on the street are poorly bred the same way, which always seems to add confusion to these pIt conversations because people have no idea what breed or mix they are really talking about.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I had a person bring me a Bichon and tell me it was a purebred Shih Tzu a few days ago. I smiled and jokingly said "looks like a Bichon got mixed into the woodpile." The owner looked at me as serious as can be and said "Oh no! This is a different variety of purebred Shih Tzu for sure, I know because my sister in law bred it!." Me: "Oh, I see..." 

These are the same pet people who are reporting dog breeds of bites on the street...The same people affecting the results of the supposedly "accurate"statistics.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Many times people do not really know the breed of the dog they own. They may even have registeration papers to a dog. They just take the word of the person they got the dog from or make up a breed that they thing resembles their dog.

Then you have registrations such as the CKC who will register any dog as long as you send them the money. People should never buy a registered dog who has papers from places such as the CKC. Some people don't know any better and believe they really have a pure bred dog.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

There is a trend right now to save all the "pitbulls." There are even a few shows devoted to just pit bulls like "Pitbulls and Parolees" and "Pit boss." The majority of the dogs they take in are rescues which are mutts or mixes. The people veiwing these shows get the impression all these dogs are indeed pit bulls when the majority are dogs of no known ancestry. Shorty's favorite dog Hercules isn't even a pit bull, but he calls him a pitbull repeatedly. I can understand why nearly any short haired dog gets called a pit bull when the media and the "experts" call every mutt the come across a pitbull.


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## JPiantedosi (Apr 23, 2012)

NamasteMama said:


> Overbreeding does not make an aggressive dog. Compare the op most dangerous dogs to the top most popular dogs. I don't see the correlation with over breeding and agressiveness...
> 
> Top most dangerous dogs...
> 
> ...


I notice that you dont have any bite stats for GSD and the lab..... I remember reading somewhere once that "labs" bite as many people as any other breed.... I also find it hard to believe that there are no stats for the GSD.

the fact is like many have mentioned already, any block headed short haird dog is a pit in the eyes of the general public. Just like any yellow, black or chocolate dog with medium lenght hair and floppy ears is a lab.

For the second time in a week, I'll say..... Ya'll make me laugh.

Jim


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

I probably shouldn't even get into this thread, but I am a HUGE ambassador for the breed. I currently own 6 of them and have owned/bred/shown Pits for going on 23 years now. I think ANY breed can be bad in the wrong hands. I also think that Pits, more than other breeds, have a tendency to attract the kind of people that make them bad. You won't generally see 80 year old women owning them or even generally well to do bankers. Not that there aren't exceptions to that, but just as a general rule they attract the wrong kind of owners and part of the reason I got out of breeding them a number of years ago. At any rate, on the flip side of that coin they are powerful dogs. They have a lot of muscle and it also takes an owner with a strong personality and willingness to teach them and make them obedient. In careless, irresponsible hands they're a disaster.
That being said, I love every single one of my dogs and none of them would hurt a flea. I do have to crate and rotate to some degree as I have a couple of dogs that are "dog selective" and have their preferences for who they'll tolerate and who they won't. Not a big deal. Everyone gets their time. But at all times "I" am pack leader and they all know it. 
I think they are one of the most awesome breeds. We have 2 ex-show dogs, 2 ex-therapy dogs and 2 rescues. My one rescue is asleep in the chair behind me as I type and is my constant shadow. In the right hands.....they are awesome dogs. Too bad a lot of people only see them as a way to boost their egos and turn them into disasters.

This picture is of me and my ex-show dog "Elvis". His whole pedigree is nothing but UKC Grand champions. He's an awesome dog! The other is our ex-therapy dog April. Awesome with people, but is dog selective.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

On the ideas of a "game" dog. There are many ways that Pits can exercise that tenacity. They are excellent pulling dogs. We saw a lot of that in ADBA. Watching those dogs is something else. It's not something we ever personally got involved in, but it's a good outlet for the dogs. My two girls came out of a Schutzund dog. He was very good and in many ways surpassed the GSD. They also excel at search and rescue and drug sniffing dogs. They are finding new jobs that take the mental and physical strengths of the Pit and put them to good use and I am all for these outlets.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

6e said:


> On the ideas of a "game" dog. There are many ways that Pits can exercise that tenacity.


NO, there isn't. There is only one way to truly consistently prove gameness. No other outlet will ever test a bulldogs refusal to quit like another dog that refuses to quit. Wild animals can do a lot of damage but they also quit really fast and try to flee. Suppose if theoretically you could put your 20-30# bulldog on twenty plus coyote, bobcat & badgers in holes in one day that might be close. I suppose if you could get your bigger bulldogs on twenty or so mt lions, wolves & wolverines in a day that too might be close. But weight pull does not remotely test gameness. Gameness may make them freaky good at other jobs but those jobs do not test gameness.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

I never said anything about "testing" now did I? And I am absolutely against the idea of "testing" a dog's "gameness" as there is no call for fighting dogs and it is an illegal and cruel practice. What I SAID was there are other ways to put that "tenacity" which tends to be in all Pits to use. Read what I said before you retort please.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

I can't take it... Pancho, where on earth are you getting your information on Boxers? It is contrary to anything I have ever known or experienced with the breed. ~shrug~

As far as 'pit bulls' are concerned? Dogs are weapons and tools and companions. If you lose respect for those first two roles then they don't do very well in the third role. Be a good dog owner and try and understand the breed, if possible. People are going to have horror stories, real or false, about any breed. Very rarely is the trouble with a dog not the fault of the owner. 

Good luck OP!


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Nope, your post could easily be misleading to any casual reader. It needed to be said that there is only one way to prove gameness.


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## 6e (Sep 10, 2005)

Pops2 said:


> Nope, your post could easily be misleading to any casual reader. It needed to be said that there is only one way to prove gameness.


I didn't even say "prove", you just read it that way.  My point was that there are healthy outlets for Pit Bulls and all that tenacity.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

6e said:


> I didn't even say "prove", you just read it that way.  My point was that there are healthy outlets for Pit Bulls and all that tenacity.


I agree there are good useful outlets, I prefer hunting.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

CraterCove said:


> I can't take it... Pancho, where on earth are you getting your information on Boxers? It is contrary to anything I have ever known or experienced with the breed.


Bite strength is weak compared to non pug nosed dogs & the weak tooth set is common knowledge. The not breaking the skin may be a bit exaggerated.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

CraterCove said:


> I can't take it... Pancho, where on earth are you getting your information on Boxers? It is contrary to anything I have ever known or experienced with the breed. ~shrug~
> 
> As far as 'pit bulls' are concerned? Dogs are weapons and tools and companions. If you lose respect for those first two roles then they don't do very well in the third role. Be a good dog owner and try and understand the breed, if possible. People are going to have horror stories, real or false, about any breed. Very rarely is the trouble with a dog not the fault of the owner.
> 
> Good luck OP!


What part do you not like?
About the only thing I know about boxers are they are soft mouthed.
I have seen the skeleton of a boxer compared to several other breeds.

I have seen several boxers run into small pit bulls. They were not even able to break the skin of the pit bull.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Okay, so your experience is with some poorly bred Boxers then? Since the breed is designed and, by some people, still used to hunt and hold large prey until the hunter arrives. The design of their skull and jaw set is specifically in order to grip and hold. Even the folds of skin on a Boxer's muzzle serve a purpose, to keep blood out of the dog's eyes. If you witnessed a 'boxer' that couldn't even break some apparent iron hide's skin who am I to argue? Just seems a little out of the ordinary, that's all.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

CraterCove said:


> Okay, so your experience is with some poorly bred Boxers then? Since the breed is designed and, by some people, still used to hunt and hold large prey until the hunter arrives. The design of their skull and jaw set is specifically in order to grip and hold. Even the folds of skin on a Boxer's muzzle serve a purpose, to keep blood out of the dog's eyes. If you witnessed a 'boxer' that couldn't even break some apparent iron hide's skin who am I to argue? Just seems a little out of the ordinary, that's all.


. 

Could you share who has these boxers that hunt large game? Wrinkles on the face is a myth made by the show crowd. Do any wild canines have wrinkles? Do you see many catch dogs with short muzzles? No and it's for a reason. The boxers of old are not like the boxers of today.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

I forgot what a bunch of blowhards populate this portion of the board. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMig5M-3pnQ[/ame] I know, the hogs aren't the largest for sure and well, lots of those are stills, they could have just been set up by some show person. Oh, and it's working in conjunction with other dogs so I guess it's not all that convincing.

Granted it's easier to find video evidence of boxers rolling around with babies.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Like I said on the last page, there is always someone who comes out of the woodwork and says they have seen it all, no matter how out of the ordinary it is.

I once saw a midget play basketball.

If i wasn't at work, I would post a picture.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Notice that dog has a much longer muzzle then today's show boxers? We had boxers for years but I don't like what they turned into. Most boxers can't do much man work either because of their bites. You found an exception to the breed. Most can't breath through their noses either.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

I cant watch a video on this laptop that I am currently using, but from the still shot of the video, it looks like a boxer mixed with a Fila. Maybe the whole video shows otherwise.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Haven said:


> I got it right on the first try,


same here.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_dTW7oXdMA"][/ame]


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

This is why I have fencing, LSGs and a donkey. and not everyone should have a pit.
I took this a few weeks ago. My LSGs were going off like crazy so I took my camera (thought it might be a coyote or something cool) went out to and down the road to look.
the dogs were way too far for me to help (and owner was already there) but I got a good lens and was able to vid some just in case it was needed for proof. 
the dog must have been at large a while because AC showed up right after the dog ran off. 
I will say the owner is not one to kick a dog unless he thinks it would help the other

*WARNING not for the weak*


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_dTW7oXdMA[/ame]


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Hey! My boxer looks like that long-nosed one.  I wasn't sure, I just thought he was poorly bred but looking up some pics I think he might be more 'original'? Anyway, his mouth is definitely good for carrying things. At first, I didn't think he was capable of hunting - but the more he gets older the more I think I could easily train him to kill rabbits for me for dinner.

He's a calm sweet boofy dog. I didn't realize they were considered pit bulls [that's what I am getting from this thread?].... anyway his jaw can definitely break skin, but again he has the longer nose. Bite is dependent upon length of nose, not width, because that's how muscles work.

Still, I would never let him wander or would ever trust him alone with people I didn't know well. Simply put - he's a dog. A dog is a dog is a dog. The number of tiny dogs that have mauled things and the number of big dogs... well. It all depends on knowing your dog and not letting them get into bad situations to begin with, right?

My dog had a habit of wandering. So I locked him up in a pen. Problem solved. Your dog has a habit of biting? Lock him up in a pen, train him, _something_. Just don't let him get near people.

I don't give two bleeps what someone has for a pet as long as they know how to make sure it's controlled enough to not damage anything of *mine*.

Also, I picked the pitbull in one, too. Huzzah.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

tailwagging said:


> This is why I have fencing, LSGs and a donkey. and not everyone should have a pit.
> I took this a few weeks ago. My LSGs were going off like crazy so I took my camera (thought it might be a coyote or something cool) went out to and down the road to look.
> the dogs were way too far for me to help (and owner was already there) but I got a good lens and was able to vid some just in case it was needed for proof.
> the dog must have been at large a while because AC showed up right after the dog ran off.
> ...


 
That is a very good example of people not knowing what they are doing.


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## Kel T (Aug 19, 2011)

That is what our Boxer looks like as well. Big, longer nosed, not typey. She weighed 98 pounds at her last vet visit. Little big for the modern day Boxer.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

you put a pack of dogs on something, it means nothing. you put a dog one on one with a hog, now that would impress me.

those two pits fighting werent too serious either.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

They are throwbacks if they look like the one in the video. In the USA only two people that I have met (on line) have used boxers. A few others have used crosses. But boxers & especially mixes have been used extensively in Oz & New Zealand. The most commonly stated drawback to the breed & the mixes is the weak tooth set.
But yes Cratercove the "wellbred" representatives of the breed like the show champions are truly pug faced and have very little bite pressure. They also tend to have longer skinny weak necks. They don't even look like the same breed as the dog in the video.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Dead Rabbit said:


> you put a pack of dogs on something, it means nothing. you put a dog one on one with a hog, now that would impress me.
> 
> those two pits fighting werent too serious either.


Running one out is stupid. It increases the chances of losing dogs to overheating.
OTH running too many dogs is the main reason they get killed by a hog's cutters.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Dead Rabbit said:


> those two pits fighting werent too serious either.


I could agree with that BUT these were "pet pits" the one being attached seems to be a nice dog. I sometimes see it's family walking it. the other was always on the tense side. barking, lunging and slobbering when I would ride my donkey on the tail passed their land. he had to trotted close to two miles the way the crow flys to get to the other dog.
if you look you will see blood on the white/black one but I don't think it was from either. sooo I wonder what got hurt/killed before he came down here.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

The earlier boxers I have seen in a very earlypre 1900 video were actually very small with weak, snipey muzzles - more like smaller pinschers. I really need to look for that video, its pretty fascinating.

TW, looks like you have some wonderful neighbors...

ETA: I deleted my bookmark with the 1800s dog show video and cannot find it. Here is a picture I found that shows the small snipey Boxers as they used to be. Keep in mind that men back then were a lot shorter than they are today, so the dogs are even smaller than they appear. The Boxers I see at dog shows, especially bitches can also be much smaller than most expect. :


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

Haven, they aren't bad. they leave us alone and don't case trouble. just country folk. live and let live. I don't judge them and they don't me. but if I need any help they will come and help. and we are (as in everyone here and most of SC) are armed =)
the owner of the dog at large is a man who's had been in a very bad car wreck many years back and has a metal plate in his head (yes truly a metal plate) is son (who really owns the dog) takes advantage of him daily. I don't blame him.
I would like to see the other dog behind fence and off the tie out but.....


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

tailwagging said:


> I could agree with that BUT these were "pet pits" the one being attached seems to be a nice dog. I sometimes see it's family walking it. the other was always on the tense side. barking, lunging and slobbering when I would ride my donkey on the tail passed their land. he had to trotted close to two miles the way the crow flys to get to the other dog.
> if you look you will see blood on the white/black one but I don't think it was from either. sooo I wonder what got hurt/killed before he came down here.


i like th look of the smaller one, the larger one a good looking dog but if he acts like that, than hes a cull. no pit should act that way IMO. to a human. perhas its the donk. but still. not very becoming in a bull dog. 
i noticed the blood, but it looked old, not from the smaller dog. 
decent folk i say. around here, people be up in arms over that dog running at large killing and attacking other animals. i got drug into harrassed and drug into court when mine killed some chickens. even after i repeatedly offered to pay all damages. that lady was out for blood b/c she had such a fear hysteria over pitbulls


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

well here there is no leash law and they are reasonable, knowing that anyone can have a animal get loose. now if someone just lets their killer run loose or not pay for what their animal damaged then yes they get upset.
in this case AC came and they released the dog to them.


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## ChuckNora (Jan 8, 2013)

NamasteMama said:


> Who said anything about yearly totals? This is compiled data over 10 years I believe, dont quote me on it. I went by the AKC, they seem to be fairly reputable and I would have no reason to doubt them. This site has further information.... http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/11/03/most-dangerous-dog-breeds.html The numbers dont lie, Pit Bulls are dangerous.


Animals are dangerous.

Pit bulls are the number 1 dog for backyard breeders. They are mixed with everything under the sun. I have seen shepherd looking dogs who the owners swore were pure pit.

That is why pit bull attacks are so high. Because if someone want's a pit bull, they call their dog a pit bull. I'm not trying to convince you to like the dog. Just understand that maybe people are just as much to blame for the bad rep of these animals.

Animals are dangerous. And if people would learn to respect the power of them, there wouldn't be as many tragic happenstances.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Dead Rabbit said:


> Around here, people be up in arms over that dog running at large killing and attacking other animals. i got drug into harrassed and drug into court when mine killed some chickens. even after i repeatedly offered to pay all damages. that lady was out for blood b/c she had such a fear hysteria over pitbulls


I like the breed and I guess you can call it "getting all up in arms" but if a pit ends up at my place and starts killing things its a dead dog. If I find it before it kills anything I will bring it to the shelter or the owner and give them a warning it won't come home next time. I don't care if its my neighbors dog or not, I am not going to subject my animals to injury so they can have a free roaming pit bull even if the owner says they are willing to pay for damages. It may be just chickens at first but I am not going to wait around to see what else it starts killing when the chickens are dead. The guy with the gun would have just been better off shooting the black and white dog. Now it will sit in a shelter and tax payers will pay for its rabies quarantine and euthanization when the owners of it don't. Its funny how people with these dogs think its okay for them to kill other peoples pets and livestock. Yet when a pitbull get shots for attacking a cop, another pet, or even a human tons of pit fans starts throwing a fit about how unjust it and how its hysteria.


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Someone TW and I know recently had a whole herd of their mini horses shredded up and killed by 2 "Pit" dogs.

That person is a 2nd generation bully breeder/exhibitor who knows how to properly identify a dog.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

JasoninMN said:


> . The guy with the gun would have just been better off shooting the black and white dog. Now it will sit in a shelter and tax payers will pay for its rabies quarantine and euthanization when the owners of it don't. Its funny how people with these dogs think its okay for them to kill other peoples pets and livestock. Yet when a pitbull get shots for attacking a cop, another pet, or even a human tons of pit fans starts throwing a fit about how unjust it and how its hysteria.


No it was released to AC by the owner. they would put it down as soon as they got it back to the pound.

I didn't say it was ok to let it run. just that people down here understand that any dog can get loose and kill something even if you are careful.
i do wish they had a leash law but there isn't one. so I have my land fenced.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

haven said:


> someone tw and i know recently had a whole herd of their mini horses shredded up and killed by 2 "pit" dogs.
> 
> That person is a 2nd generation bully breeder/exhibitor who knows how to properly identify a dog.



oh no!!!!!!
Hb?!!


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## Haven (Aug 16, 2010)

Yes, Tw..happened a few months ago, I cant remember how many survived. It was a sad sight with a rectum torn out and necks and hocks shredded...bloody mess with mega vet bills.The neighbors dogs mysteriously disappeared immediately.


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

:Bawling::Bawling:give her a hug!
tell her I am soo sorry to hear it.
my heart hurts for her and the kids.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

JasoninMN said:


> Notice that dog has a much longer muzzle then today's show boxers? We had boxers for years but I don't like what they turned into. Most boxers can't do much man work either because of their bites. You found an exception to the breed. Most can't breath through their noses either.


...........And , besides that the pure breeds I've seen here abouts have weak looking bone structure in their legs and hind quarters ! They can obviously run fast but I'd think a 'HogDog' would be built with very strong , short leggs , bone structure and a hell of a strong bite. , fordy


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Fordy
Depends on the hog dog in open country like west TX a leggy dog is better, in Carolina coastal swamp a beagle size dog is hard to beat.


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## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

JasoninMN said:


> I like the breed and I guess you can call it "getting all up in arms" but if a pit ends up at my place and starts killing things its a dead dog. If I find it before it kills anything I will bring it to the shelter or the owner and give them a warning it won't come home next time. I don't care if its my neighbors dog or not, I am not going to subject my animals to injury so they can have a free roaming pit bull even if the owner says they are willing to pay for damages. It may be just chickens at first but I am not going to wait around to see what else it starts killing when the chickens are dead. The guy with the gun would have just been better off shooting the black and white dog. Now it will sit in a shelter and tax payers will pay for its rabies quarantine and euthanization when the owners of it don't. Its funny how people with these dogs think its okay for them to kill other peoples pets and livestock. Yet when a pitbull get shots for attacking a cop, another pet, or even a human tons of pit fans starts throwing a fit about how unjust it and how its hysteria.


your preaching to the choir. 

im all for killing dogs that kill other livestock. ive killed my own in yrs past for the same deed. 
this area is strict with leash laws. those dogs were no longer here after this happened. i believe in taking care of my own problems. 
but this lady was verbally abusive, wanting homeowner insur. info. downing the breed, downing those that kept them....etc. i offer many times to pay, many times to rebuild the damage done to coop, or send another contractor in. and all i get is nasty haughty "i dont want anything from you"
then the cops show up to ask questions etc. then two wks later, i get summoned to court. she was out for blood. ridiculous.

by the way i dont allow my animals to run loose w/o suppervision. my wife did it. while i was at work. let to many outa their kennels at once. she was told to not do this. it was a hard lesson learned.


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

I worked for the US Postal Service for 25+ years, and over the years had several encounters with Pit Bull types, none were pleasant. 

The worse case was a very aggressive attack when I was about half way between my vehicle and the house. I managed to fend the dog off with the large package (box) I was delivering until I made it into the screened porch, where I was trapped for over an hour.

I finally managed to maneuver him into the porch and beat him off with a broom while I escaped out the door and shut it behind me. Lucky to get away with only torn clothing.

The lady called the Postmaster and complained about the damaged package and swore Roscoe wouldn't harm a fly. She got no more house delivery. If she received a package I pulled into the yard and honked, if she didn't come out she had to drive to the PO to get it.

Lovers of the breed are welcome to them, but, I don't want them anywhere close to me, my family or my livestock. I don't know enough about them to distinguish between pure bred or crosses and have no interest in learning. But I've had enough bad experiences with what I took to be Pit bulls that any Pit Bull looking dog that shows up on my premises will be disposed of as soon as I can manage it.


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