# Raising own pet food



## cjean (May 1, 2007)

How many of you raise your own meat (specifically rabbits, chickens, rodents) to feed your dogs and cats? 

I'm wondering how efficient it is, economically and health-wise. (I know that home-raised meat is likely more healthy for your pets - no additives and less bacterial risks.) I guess what I need to know is what do you feed your "prey animals", to keep the cost as low as possible.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

I find the premis of this idea absurd on many levels. I am visualizing raising and feeding my homegrown meat exclusivly to pets. They may get the leftovers but thats it!

If times got so tough I could not afford pet food my pet population would be quickly reduced.


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## southridgeacre (Feb 5, 2008)

Well, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think cjean is referring to feeding her pets a BARF (bones and raw food) diet to her pets, which is prob different from what you are thinking or postroad. 

I don't raise my own pet food, but I've heard of several others that do. I go to Wal-Mart and buy raw chicken and beef for our dog, who does much better on that than commercial dog food, in many ways. 

I think rabbits are the most commonly ones raised for BARF, but you'd need to have more variety than strictly rabbit,(they don't have enough fat), but I have thought about it several times myself, so this will be an interesting thread. 

Sam


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## no hurry (Mar 16, 2008)

I think it would be cost prohibitive to do it right. 

There are some veg recipes that you could add scrap meat to that might not be as expensive. Its pretty time intensive though. Depends on how big your pets are....


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

cjean said:


> How many of you raise your own meat (specifically rabbits, chickens, rodents) to feed your dogs and cats?


I understood correctly.


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

southridgeacre said:


> I don't raise my own pet food, but I've heard of several others that do. I go to Wal-Mart and buy raw chicken and beef for our dog, who does much better on that than commercial dog food, in many ways.


How can I put this without hurting feelings. Ah heck, I find that absurd as well.


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## MoonMedic (Jan 9, 2009)

Thats what led me to this site, LOL Now I am intreasted in so much more!

There are a coupel of schools of thought on raw feeding, RMB (raw meaty bones) and the old BARF style which incorporates other items, like veggies.

I really wouldnt cost more... for example, a 10 ib dog only needs 3-4% of its body weight a day, so 4 oz isnt all that much! Considering that same small dog eats about a cup of "premium" dog food a day! There is a lot of info on it, some yahoo groups and such. If you want some links and more info, pm me. I plan on switching to RMB in the fall. And hopefully raising some of it myself


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## postroad (Jan 19, 2009)

After some thought, It really is none of my business what people do on their on homesteads. My apologies for the snippy remarks.


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

I started raising chickens for the dogs. IMO even though the cost of feeding is much lower as they can free range, the processing is way too much work in relation to the amount of meat you get from it. Now the turkeys that free range, would be well worth it, but if kept penned, I put in more in feeed than it is worth. My BR x RP turkeys have been kept inside and only source of feed has been commercial and scraps...here they are like 7-8 mo old and still I don;t feed the hens would dress out decently. If I were to do it again, I would put them in a tractor. Ducks and geese are wonderful as well if you can free range them for cost. Like the turkeys, they do not require grain after they feather out and can get thier entire diet from the land. Once again though, they are a pain to process. I am now raising rabbits for the dogs. I got cals as I know they will grow quickly to a decent weight. The rabbits are easy to process. Skin, behead and defeet- you can dress a rabbit in this manner in just a few mins. Once again, tractor raising would be the most efficent way. I tried colony raising and had losses from fly strike after rains and fighting not to mention the dig outs....so I do cage raise now. The cals I chose are very efficeint at converting feed. I do feed a nhigh quality alfalfa based (not grain based) pellet and in the warm months I reduce my feed bill by half by feeding weeds , leaves, etc. I will not stray from pellets as I feel I get the fastest grow out with them, enabling me to process sooner and thereby free up cage space for another litter. I also raise french lops...those are not for meat...those are to pay the rabbit feed bill in sales as pets and show stock. If I sell one bun a month, I break even with my feed costs in winter and make money in warm months when I can supplement with grass and weeds. I do not feed hay as I have no where to store it and the pellets seem to cover everything just fine and eliminate the need for salt spools as it contains salt in it. I hate salt spools as they rust my cages. maintence of rabbits is easier than contained chickens. If you set your cages up outside, there is only the occassional cleaning needed for the rabbit that tends to get a build up in a corner. The manure can be used straight for the garden and veggies....so I just take it from the ground directly to the garden therefore, I see it as not cleaning up after rabbits, but working on the garden. In the winter I shovel the manure into the compost pile. I do have a row of cages above another row and those have trays...but once again, still easier than shoveling up the manure in the chicken coop and no expense for bedding except for a little straw in thier boxes in the winter and at nesting time. If you have chickens for your own use, then you can hang the cages outside in thier area...they will keep it stirred up and eat the worms (less feed for them). Otherwise you can have worm beds under the cages and make money off the sales of fish worms. So yes, rabbits are more ecomomical, easier to process and maintain. So what I do now is raise meat rabbits for dogs, french lops to support all the rabbits feed, Chickens for chick sales, eggs and cornish for meat birds (though older chickens could go to dogs), turkeys for sales of poults and meat for family, ducks for meat and eggs for family. I will be getting sheep and some of the meat from them will also go to dogs. I am choosing a hair sheep that is hardy and requires little care and no grain except for when there is no forage available. I look at the sheep as mostly being for family food and hope to learn to butcher my own so I will not have to pay for that. I will track my expenses for them as well and see if they are able to save enough money to make keeping a small flock reasonable. Rabbits was a good choice and I am pleased that it is easy to find a way for them to pay for thier keep and so the meat is essentially free. Now if you factor in start up costs, depending on how much you spend, you can be breaking even after the first year and making profit after that. I went with used cages and equipment paying 5-10 per hole and $25 for meat rabbits and $30 avg for French lops- but it took me time and patience to find them at that price. Your best bet is to buy in the fall/winter as rabbitries will want to reduce thier stock for the winter. I will be picking up a bunch of supplies in the next couple weeks- a rabbitry that went out of business- 11 24" square cages or more plus 2 grow out cages, 2 carriers and a grooming table for $150. They come with feeders and bottles too. Now how many rabbits will you need to produce? I figure I will get about 50% dress out (it will be more that than as I am going to be feeding the organs as well, but I am figuring low). So about 2.5 lbs per fryer if they are 5 lbs. So for me, who usually goes through about 20 lbs of chicken a day, I need to produce 8 rabbits for each feeding. My goal is to produce rabbit to feed the dogs 4 x a week right now. So I need 32 buns a week. Now I don;t think you go through as much meat per day as I do, so your number of rabbits needed will be much less. I am set up to house 16 cal does, though I know I will need to expand that in the future if I want to reach my goal- but from my figures that will give me enough to feed rabbit 3 times a week for now. I just did my first breedings, so get back with me in the summer and see how my plan is working out.


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## cjean (May 1, 2007)

Willowynd, thank you for the indepth post. Lots of good info in there - can't wait to see how your plan works out!

Yes, I was definitely asking about raw diet economics, since our dog has food allergies, and can't even eat the cat poo without getting ill (that's an "ugh, gross" no matter which way you look at it). So, we'd like to switch them all to raw, mainly the "prey model". With just one dog and two cats, it shouldn't be too hard.

Anyhow, we used to raise NZ and cal rabbits commercially about 4 years ago. We'd have about 500 in the barn at any given time. That was alot of pellets - 1 ton would last about 2 weeks. We did not ever mess around with alternative feeds, but now that we would like to raise just a few, it should be easier to experiment a bit. That's what I'm curious about - if feeding other kinds of food (hay, weeds, leaves, etc) might actually bring the cost down enough to make it a feasible alternative. 

Of course the rabbits, chickens, whatever, would also go to feeding the humans in the family.

We also have a small flock of hair sheep, and a few goats, so the freezer has some pet food already in it. 

What do you do with hides and feet, if you are going through that many rabbits a week? How do you dispose of them? I have a friend that raises her pet food - just throws the whole carcass in a grinder, and tans the hides to sell (they are professional trappers). I don't think we'd get that involved!


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## lmnde (Sep 25, 2006)

Mine eat the rabbits skin, head, feet, entrails and all. If I don't want any meat for the family, I do cut them into quarters + head for the big dogs or into 7-9 pieces for the littles [it goes easier if you first freeze them a bit]. I probably overfeed slightly but don't feel like messing around weighing the bits and pieces and in a group/pack environment it's beside the point anyways, as they will swap and hord, LOL, but we also fast them every 3rd or 4th day, depending on how enthusiastic they were on the last feeding. No specific rythm for the fast - it all depends on how fat they are getting, how picky they were at the last feeding, and also at times on how much meet I have at hand. They are doing great on this.

If we'll ever manage to get to our new place and have it all set up to live there, we will add goats, potbellies, chickens and geese to the menagerie. Chickens predominantly for us and eggs, as Willowynd said, as to me the work/$$ to process chickens is not cost effective enough to raise them for the dogs. 

1 pet bunny sale will pay for 2-3ea 40# boxes of chicken backs directly from the chicken factory around here. While it is probably not as healthy in comparison to homeraised, they do well on it, and at this time it is still the majority of the mainstay for the group. Don't forget hunting season for deer in fall/winter - great way to add big meaty bones that you otherwise won't get out of chicken + buns.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I feed all my dogs a raw diet, and I raise rabbits at home to suppliment what I get through our local raw feeders co-op. Even when I factor in the cost of feed for the rabbits, it costs about as much to feed my crew raw as it would to feed them kibble, but my vet bills went way down and I have significantly fewer health issues. And I don't start sweating when I hear talk of dog food recalls!

With the rabbits I can also eat the meat myself, sell some meat to family members, and I sell live rabbits occasionally as pets and/or as breeding stock. I'm also working on tanning the rabbit hides to make items that can either be sold or used by my family.


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

We tried to raise food for our dogs but gave it up. We have 3 Rhodesian Ridgebacks (2 are around 90 pounds, 1 is 125 pounds) and a Black Lab. I realized that we simply could not easily and conveniently raise enough meat to have a continuous supply. 

Recently I decided to try raw feeding again, but this time I am scavenging a bunch of the meat. I was given a small horse which died of colic and was frozen solid when we picked it up, and 2 small calves. Since the carcasses were already frozen we did not try to skin or gut them. We just cut pieces off with a sawzall as needed. The dogs eat the hide, hair, meat, bones, and even the feet. Heads, too. In fact, sometimes I just let the dogs into the machine shed to "self-feed" off the frozen carcasses. I don't worry too much about portion control- if they eat a lot today I can limit what they eat tomorrow. I figure it all evens out and I just keep an eye on their weight.

Today a former neighbor called to see if I wanted 6 goats. They are between 9 months and a year old, so there should be a fair amount of meat on them. I am going to get hubby to shoot them, and help me gut them, then hang them in the machine shed to freeze. Once they are frozen I will cut them up with the sawzall. If it doesn't warm up too soon I will be able to leave them hanging until they are consumed- otherwise I will have to cut them in small enough chunks to fit in the freezer.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Green stomach lining is very good for dogs. I've read a couple of articles that attest to the great things it does for doggies. If there is a slaughterhouse near you, you may be able to buy tripe very reasonably. It is huge, and the slaughterhouse has to pay to get rid of it. But, only buy from pastured animals. It will be green from the grass.


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## Willowynd (Mar 27, 2005)

Have you been to the rabbit forum? There has been discussions on alternate feeds. One person tried barley grass, but the results did not seem encouraging enough for me to try. Personally, I am not going to go out and hand pick different weeds to feed all my rabbits, which is why I went with a second breed to support them all through pet sales. 
If your only feeding one (large breed?) dog and a couple cats, you should be able to get by just fine with 3-4 rabbits a week for the dog- or one litter every 2 weeks. Cats if they are not used to raw can be a challenge to switch. If I did not have an old cat that resuse to eat anything but dry food (TOTW at that) in the the group, I would probably just feed chicken organs with cheap ground turkey, baby rabbits that died in the nest box, chicks, mice caught in a box trap, etc. Cats have a higher meat/bone ratio need than dogs do. Think of the amount of meat to bone in a small bird or a mouse.
Back to raising rabbits acconomically. If you only need that amount of feed, you would only need a 4 does and a buck for an intense breeding schedule or add a couple for a more relaxed breeding schedule. You could easily tractor them so they would get a majority of thier feed that way. Same concept as a chicken tractor, but a wire floor so they could not dig out. You could also give them alfalfa hay free feed and maybe some oats and BOSS to the nursing does. I would still be choosy about stock...using cals or cal/NZW's chosen for the most efficient production- but keep in mind that they are at peak production on commercial feed as that is what they were bred for. You would have to be strict with culling and choose young out of the does that convert the most efficently on what your providing. It will probably take a few generations to see improvement. If you hop on over the rabbit forum and look up zils...that may be a good option for you. There is some being passed on through the states currently in an attempt to get the breed out there. They thrive on forage. I am not remembering the production numbers/weights though. 
The skins- I plan to tan them and make things with them to sell. The feet...why lucky rabbits feet of course 



cjean said:


> Willowynd, thank you for the indepth post. Lots of good info in there - can't wait to see how your plan works out!
> 
> Yes, I was definitely asking about raw diet economics, since our dog has food allergies, and can't even eat the cat poo without getting ill (that's an "ugh, gross" no matter which way you look at it). So, we'd like to switch them all to raw, mainly the "prey model". With just one dog and two cats, it shouldn't be too hard.
> 
> ...


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Postroad,

RAW diet is better for dogs/cats because it more resembles their natural food. You don't see wolves chowing down on corn, and other veggies in the wild, do you? Dogs that are on the RAW diet have smaller poop which turn ash white and crumbles in 2-3 days. Dogs have more energy and from what I have heard, less chance of stomach problems. Keep in mind, RAW diet is a lot of work because you do have to freeze the meat and thaw out what is needed that day, etc. Most commerical dog food are fillers with lots of corn in it resulting in dogs with poor digestive systems who have to eat more to obtain more nutrients and therefore they poop alot more and gain weight, etc. Commerical dog food is a very recent invention. Many years ago, people fed RAW foods but they didn't call it that back then.


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## Reptyle (Jul 28, 2005)

I raise rodents for my snakes. I'd raise rabbits or something else for my dogs if I had the room to do so.

Something I have thought of is killing wild hogs and using them meat not only for myself, but for the pets as well. My understanding is that they're almost epidemic in some parts of the country, so taking one down won't cost much more than a little time, effort and the price of a bullet.

I just don't know after the processing if it would be cost effective.


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## cjean (May 1, 2007)

I'd actually seriously think about raising rodents for our dog and cats, if we didn't live on a farm in the first place (there's enough of them running around here). The akbash LOVES mice, moles, squirrels, etc., and would eat them all day if he could. A box trap for mice is a good idea.

Yes, I've checked the rabbit forum, and will continue to go there for ideas, but I really wanted to hear from people that are actually raising them for their own pet food. And doing it economically. Hard times are really coming, and we'd like to be as self-reliant as possible.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

we just started feed our dogs raw and so far I like it. The LGDs in the goat pasture were having to guard their food too much as the goats loved it too. The goats didn't need the dog food and the dogs needed to eat in peace. The goats won't touch the chicken parts etc. so it looks like it is working nicely.:clap:

Purina Dog chow went up in price and down in size making it about .50/lb. I have no idea what "premium" dog food goes for per lb but I am sure it is way up there. The strange things added to dog kibble makes it also more attractive to feed raw. I would have been sick to loose a dog to the melamine poisoning. I don't give my dogs or ourselves filet migon every day, but a good basic quality food is a must for all living things. Our dogs are a very important part of the farm. The coyotes would wipe us out in a night if we didn't have them.

I can get chicken quarters for $.50/lb and add reduced meats to that for not too much more .69-1.00/lb. I need to do some more searching to find organ meats cheaper (1.20)but as they don't get much of that anyway it will not bring up the cost much. 

If the raw meat diet is better for the dogs I don't mind spending a little extra. I feed daily to sometimes every other day. It really depends on how they respond to the meal. 

I was worried about agression in the 3 other dogs in our yard. so far no one has had problems. they get their food and pick out a spot and eat. it takes them longer to eat than kibble. I was feeding free choice kibble and would have a dog guard the feeder and be somewhat of a pill. 

I am sure if we tried to raise all our own feed it would be very expensive and we would be short often. I don't see us growing all very often but they will get anything that we won't eat from one of our butcherd animals.

ps I have found that they will also catch mice/rats and eat everything so they also get some of that once in a while.


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## Beaniemom (May 25, 2007)

I feed our two dogs a raw diet. I had been feeding a grain free dry diet with the 95% meat canned, which is the way to go if you cannot do a raw diet. Some dog breeds have a VERY high incidence rate of cancer, my vet said she has seen the # of cats with mouth cancer (how we lost our 17YO kitty a few years ago) increase. IMO, that has alot to do with what we are putting in their systems. I found it sad that a huge increase in mouth cancer in cats was just kinda of like, well, thats how it is now. She didn;t seem to care WHY there was an increase, but I did!

I have seen a HUGE difference in the health and vitality of my dogs, espcecially my Chihuahua. I got an older Chi from the pound. Loads of skin issues, very overweight, a pronounced heart murmur (lots of morning phlem and coughing)

Since we started raw, he has lost weight, tons more energy. No more morning phlegm, no more coughing, unless he over does it (which, hardly ever happens, unless you count when he eats too fast to keep the other dog from eating something) Nice shiny coats. No fleas. Clean healthy teeth. No vet visits, I could go on. LOL

The best part about giving them meat I raised myself, is I know where it came from. Not shipped from China, not packed in and raised goodness knows how and eating who knows what. If I could, I would raise my own Lamb, pork and beef. (Of course, we would eat lots of that!)

Is it more expensive? Perhaps. But they don;t eat anything I wouldn't eat myself. And I don't need to worry that there is something toxic in their feed from China either. I would pay three times what I pay now just for that piece of mind!

Right now we only raise chickens and rabbits. We also show rabbits, so feeding the dogs (and us) is really a side product, although when I first started, it was only to feed them (and us) not show!

I have goats and a pig on my list of critters to get this year. I first need to find someplace to have them butchered that will pick up, seeing as how I don;t see me delivering Boar goats or Pigs to butcher in the back of my PT cruiser!

I went from a perfectly normal person who fed grocery store kibble, to a Raw feeding nut! LOL Turns out, I had cans of the recalled poison food on my shelf that I hadn't fed my cat yet.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

I never understand why people think a raw diet for dogs and cats is absurd. Commercial pet food has only been around for 50-60 years or so.

Before that, dogs and cats ate.... raw food in the form of rats, mice, and discards from larger slaughtered animals (deer, cows, etc.)


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## MariaAZ (Jun 5, 2007)

DreamerTheresa said:


> I never understand why people think a raw diet for dogs and cats is absurd. Commercial pet food has only been around for 50-60 years or so.
> 
> Before that, dogs and cats ate.... raw food in the form of rats, mice, and discards from larger slaughtered animals (deer, cows, etc.)


My mother grew up in a large city with several dogs, all were fed a sort of meaty stew that my grandmother cooked up for them and liberally supplemented with bones and other goodies from the butcher. That was how everyone she knew fed their dogs. Back then the butcher has many meats/organs that were sold specifically for feeding pets because everyone prepared their own pet food.

I have fed my dogs home-cooked diets as well as raw, and they seem to do better (and enjoy more) than on kibble.


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