# mutt pups and huge prices



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I had my name on a list for a pup,called to set up pick up time, but they sold it to someone else, then I find out the pups were not registered. australian shepard ok no biggie. Then she sends me a photo of the runt and offers that one to me. $200.00 . Someone else is selling mixed breed pups lab registered and australian shepard also registered . But the pups wont be anything but mutts right?$300.00. I guess I just dont understand puppy getting anymore, it's been a long time that I actually went looking for a dog.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

They are pricing them at what the market will bear. With all of the spay and neuter and anti-breeder, adopt don't shop movements that have gone on, there really aren't a lot of puppies being produced. Except for the ones being bred in the huge overseas puppy mills to supply the "rescues."


----------



## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

Those prices are actually cheap. I have seen rescues in my area charge 4, 5 or even $600 for a "rescue fee", and people swallow the BS and actually believe the line that they get fed when the rescue tells them they are not "selling" the dog, they are charging a rescue or rehoming fee. The things that people will fall for and allow themselves to believe when their emotions overrule their logic are just amazing.


----------



## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

Why would anyone want to go to a rescue and buy someone else's defective or problem dog that could have health or other issues and think they are doing themselves or the world a favor? These are animals the original owner couldn't GIVE away...and now with the brand new title of 'rescue' attached to it, it's worth money?? Common sense really isn't so common anymore, is it?

These days, anyone who produces puppies whether by careful breeding or complete accident are absolutely terrorized by animal do-gooder folk and rescue organizations. Either way you are considered irresponsible and a bad person for puppies. Been there, done that. Still won't have my dogs spayed, and still give all my pups away free just like everyone used to do.


----------



## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

We have pure bread chocolate lab pups right now. Most sell before they are born. Ours are cheap at 800. The people who are looking to buy these dogs would never go to a shelter. They want healthy dogs who's health line they can track. They are also able to afford their care. Free and cheap dogs go many times to people who get them on a whim who likely rent and they end up having to get rid of them. So they end up at shelters. On our farm every animal has worth and value. This is the first time we bread our lab. And she had 9 pups. We made more off of them then cattle this year. Sounds like a winner to me. The anti group push a bunch of lies. We talked to each one of our buyers and their biggest fear was the unknown of the shelter dogs past their health line and breed which may carry an aggressive nature. It's like buying anything else. You want title insurance and the best your money can buy for a long return.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

I also have 9 puppies right now, they're almost 4 weeks old. Mine are Golden retrievers and I ask $600 which is very reasonable I believe.


----------



## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Beautiful Goldens. These are our little darlins.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Those are some nice, healthy, well adjusted looking pups. A lot of work goes into raising those if you do it right. Seems like there are loads of laws and hurdles that breeders have to go through, but the rescue people just run rampant. Seems like every week there is a rescue getting shut down because they are nothing more than a non-profit puppy-mill that keeps their animals in deplorable conditions. I am sure there are good ones, but the names they associate with, and the mantras espoused by those names, condemn any of their actions. 
I would be really ticked off if I was a breeder, and had to follow regulations, and some non-profit, tax evading, rescue was shipping in puppies from heaven knows where without any health papers, they don't follow any rules, and turn around and sell them for big bucks and call it adoption. Just this week I saw a load of foreign Golden Retrievers along with some sob story, and a sign up sheet for 600 dollar adoptions. Ever wonder how the rescues are so fortunate as to rescue large volumes of cute adorable, pass for purebred, puppies?

So, that is why puppies, even mixed breed, are bringing big bucks. Most people are afraid to even think of breeding their dog. And those that do, have waiting lists. Even when accidents happen, there is no shortage of people looking for them. Especially when you count those operating a rescue for retail, they peruse the lists and snatch up every free pup that comes along.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

I&#8217;m a rescue person. In 2014 our medical costs were nearly $100,000. That&#8217;s just for one little breed in one region. The highest medical bills any of mine incurred would be in the $600 range for dumped puppy mill breeders. This does not include food or travel to specialists. Our dogs go for $300, less for seniors dogs or senior adopters.

What you get for your money is a dog that has been living in a home, is comfortable in a home and a crate, issues are known because of living with a foster family, dog is up to date on shots and is neutered. When we had that big economic downturn with so many people loosing their homes the animal rescues were inundated with pets. People who would never have considered giving away their pets had to let go of them. We also get pets from people who have died or gone into a nursing home.

I don&#8217;t know why you think people are afraid of breeding their dog. There are breeders who breed best to best, and there are breeders who toss two dogs together without knowledge or care. Now, if you are talking about puppy mills, I&#8217;d like to see every one of them go out of business. And, for your information, the rescues have become wise to dogs being bred specifically for the rescue market and we no longer buy puppies at auctions to rescue them. 

The only rescues I know of that are bringing in rescue dogs are those in the north bringing unwanted dogs from the south. Yes, they are mostly from puppy mills, but they had been purchased and lived with an owner before ending up in rescue.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I have not looked at puppy prices in many years. So I am out of date for sure. Just dont understand spending $300 plus for a dog without papers, the buyer may want to breed some day. I guess being registered is not all that big of a deal anymore. are the puppy from overseas the pups in Just Puppy Stores? I bought a jack russel from them 15 years ago now I guess and that dog was sick, crazy, cost me hundreds in vet bills. and died at 2 yrs.

I had not hear of the overseas puppies. The rescues around here are not good. They post about a dog that needs saving now today will be killed but when you call and ask them about that dog they have a waiting list of people they are vetting. And the cost is nuts.$400. I just thought it would be nice to help a dog but I really think it just helps the person owning the rescue. Im in no hurry really just happen to hear/see about the puppy and it reminded me of my child hood pet.


----------



## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

I can't believe the prices of puppies also. The rescues here left a bad taste in our mouths. We were looking for LSG of some sort. None of the rescues in our area I talked to would let us keep the dog outside. Plus, wasn't giving anyone permission to come on the property anytime they felt like it to check on the dog. 

Tried the pound, all pit mixes(I know some of you have had good luck with those), wasn't going to try), but brought home the one Golden/lab mix. Lasted here a week.

Finally found a farmer who had a GP mix puppies $80. They were gone in a day. Didn't fix the one we have, hoping to find someone with a girl to breed to so we can get a puppy eventually.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The reality is that people that are looking for dogs usually want puppies. It is much easier for a puppy to assimilate into people's lifestyle than an older dog that grew up with somebody else's routine. People usually have better memories from dogs that were raised from a pup. So they want a pup. Sad for the old dogs, but it is reality.

So the rescues like pups too. They can make more money off of them. I read of an instance just today where a rescue went in and busted an evil puppy mill and confiscated all the pups that were living in horrible conditions. Left the old dogs, but they got the pups out of there. They got in trouble for it, I think there are criminal charges pending. There are good rescues, but how would you tell? Seems like they would serve people better by taking in unwanted pets from their locality, offering them for adoption for a reasonable amount of time, and then humanely euthanizing them instead of shipping them all over the country or in some cases world. How is it fair to an old dog in a shelter looking for a home if you ship a bunch of puppies in from the other side of the country or world, where there is an overpopulation problem? 

The stupid rescue people will dump hundreds or thousands into sick or old dogs that will eventually get put down, and some guy wants to chain a dog out back to keep ***** out of his sweet corn, they tell him he doesn't meet their criteria for adoption, and if he did, it would cost him hundreds of dollars for an adoption fee. So he goes and keeps the people that they claim to hate so much in business. And that is just the rescue people that aren't evil pet hoarding puppy mill types that operate purely for profit, with a tax exempt status, using volunteer labor and extorted donation money to supplement their high dollar pet sales.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

You know Im not so sure that the rescue people are not the same as a pet hoarder. I see a lot of them here in town at the Food Lion buying cat and dog food and they all smell of dog and cat poop and pee. I know I know that sounds bad but its true. This one cat rescue lady has 109 cats. Her car even stinks of cat pee. She was out my road last summer and picked up my cat on my driveway. The USP driver happened to see her put my cat in her van and drive away. He stopped back that evening to tell me. and I went and collected my cat with the sheriff.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I just looked on craigslist today Lots and lots of rehoming fees, and most of the puppies are pit and pit mixes. I too had pits. nice dogs. But not what I need at my place and at my age.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The whole pet overpopulation thing is a myth. The evil puppymill breeder and pet stores flooding the shelters thing is largely a myth. In fact if you take pit and pit mixes out of the equation, (because there is unfortunately a segment of society that embraces a type of dog that they aren't prepared to be in control of), we would have a dog SHORTAGE in this country right now, shelters would be setting empty everywhere.Some reading on the subject.

http://www.border-wars.com/2012/06/now-only-2-of-dogs-die-in-shelters.html


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

https://stlouis.craigslist.org/pet/5462420720.html

Don't bother placing your free puppy ad, we will take care of everything, for a small re-homing fee of a few hundred bucks or so.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

http://www.seattledogspot.com/dog-a...rantined-puppies-into-washington-from-mexico/

If there is a dog overpopulation problem, why in the world are people bringing in dogs from Mexico? Maybe trying to bring in a disease to help control population?


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Animal Control and the Humane Society here are constantly getting litters of puppies dumped over their fence at night. Getting a puppy through either one is a very good deal. They are clean, healthy, spayed or neutered and priced at $150. Vets here donate time to get the dogs fixed for adoption. Most pups are mixed breeds but they make wonderful pets too.


----------



## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Almost 4 years ago, someone dumped 3 pure bred mini pins on me. These dogs are so tramutized, that after all this time living with me, the only place theywill allow themselves to be touched, in in their beds! 9in my bedroom too) They are amazing sisters, they are the ones i am trying to recover from Nex Guard, given 9 months ago.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

what nex guard, I heard someone else say they used it and the dog wont take breeding?


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

here the humane society is a joke. you have to jump through so many hoops only friends get the nice dogs. under the table stuff going on all the time. I could pass for human adoption before they would let me have a dog. They actually said they wanted me to fence all 5+ acres. They come visit you several times unannounced. Call your vet and have a heart to heart talk.


----------



## LuLuToo (Dec 19, 2015)

Some of the pet rescues are a joke and others are very good. There is one in Kansas where my sister got her dogs. They are no kill, good about just charging a minimal fee, and truly just try to find the pets good homes. I know of others where they charge hundreds of dollars for the pets. It doesn't make sense to me. And our SPCA only charges $25 for a dog and a bit less, I believe, for a cat. The animals are vetted, spayed or neutered (or come with certificate for spay/neuter), and have the required tag. Right now, they are having $5 cat days. 

LuLu


----------



## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

No kill is not necessarily always a good thing. Like most every other emotion tugging term that rescues use to describe their activities this one too deserves a lot more scrutiny and thought than the average bleeding heart cares to put into it. Not every dog deserves to be saved, like it or not. Many have temperament issues which make them dangerous. There have been cases of rescues which cared so much about animal life and so little about human life that they saved a dog with temperament problems and placed it in a home, only to have it attack and in some cases even kill someone, usually a child. Some rescues spend hundreds even thousands of dollars on veterinary care to save every and any life that comes their way, wasting resources that could be used to save many more down the road. The sad fact is that you can't save them all, nor should you, but many of these people don't deal in reality. Some of the more reputable rescues, oxymoron which that may be, at least do refuse to take in dogs which have bitten or which show severe aggression.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Agriculture said:


> No kill is not necessarily always a good thing. Like most every other emotion tugging term that rescues use to describe their activities this one too deserves a lot more scrutiny and thought than the average bleeding heart cares to put into it. Not every dog deserves to be saved, like it or not. Many have temperament issues which make them dangerous. There have been cases of rescues which cared so much about animal life and so little about human life that they saved a dog with temperament problems and placed it in a home, only to have it attack and in some cases even kill someone, usually a child. Some rescues spend hundreds even thousands of dollars on veterinary care to save every and any life that comes their way, wasting resources that could be used to save many more down the road. The sad fact is that you can't save them all, nor should you, but many of these people don't deal in reality. Some of the more reputable rescues, oxymoron which that may be, at least do refuse to take in dogs which have bitten or which show severe aggression.


I love dogs and though it pains me to say so, I totally agree with you.

My heart breaks when I walk thru a shelter and see the masses of pit bulls and pitt crosses that will never and maybe should never be adopted. I think it far kinder to humanely euthanize dogs than to condemn them to a life spent in a shelter. And the shelters that attempt to hide a dogs past or propagate the nanny dog myth and put well meaning people or their children in danger...they should be horsewhipped.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Yet more evidence that there is no overpopulation problem in this country. We are bringing in dogs from Korea.
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-korean-dogs-rescued-20160227-story.html

I'm sure the Korean meat dog farmers are going to quit raising meat dogs. Probably more money in selling dogs to stupid Americans.


----------



## Agriculture (Jun 8, 2015)

No doubt. People will be falling over each other to get to that humane society door. I wonder what the "rescue fee" will be? No mention. You know it's got to cost a lot to to ship them in. Bidding war maybe. But wait a minute, it says that some were suffering from malnutrition. I'm not up on the latest Korean meat dog farming practices, but even I know that any farmer trying to raise something for meat doesn't usually keep it malnourished. It couldn't be that the humane society has it's information wrong, could it?

As if the rescue stories aren't sappy enough, now they're one upping each other. I can hear the conversations in the dog park now:
"Cute dog."
"Thanks. He's a _rescue_."
"Mine too. He was _abused_."
"My rescue was abused _by a man_."
"My rescue was abused _by a man in a Korean meat dog farm_."


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm over wanting a puppy. Just a fleeting depression mood booster thought I guess.


----------



## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

We just sold a litter of Patterdales our second and last one. Its priceless to watch them play and get updates from the new owner's. Its to hard for us to give them up Hopefully someone will kekep this breed going in our area as most folk's have no clue what they are.


----------



## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I breed & I work with reputable rescues. I also worked full-time in a kill animal shelter all thru my college years, so I've seen the industry from a number of different sides.

"Retail Rescue" is the name for rescues that are making $$ hand over fist while not really rescuing anything! They send a guy with a cargo van to Missouri, he purchases 50-75 small breed puppies at $50/each from a commercial breeder (i.e. puppy mill), drives them straight to New England where they unload them directly at an "adoption event", where these unvetted puppies who they've had less than 24 hours are then "adopted" for $500+. They're raking in $$ while avoiding the regulations that dog brokers (the people who purchase dogs from commercial breeders and sell them to pet stores) have to comply with, because they're a "rescue".

Read a report the other day that the number of missing Golden Retrievers in Turkey has skyrocketed in the last 6 months - coincides with the sudden import of hundreds of "stray" purebred Goldens that a rescue has been importing to the USA...but I'm sure it's a total coincidence . I've talked to people who visited Turkey or even lived there for a time who have confirmed that there isn't a magical population of purebred stray Goldens wandering the streets over there.

Rescues are sending representatives to commercial dog auctions, where they are bidding against each other (!) for dogs, which they then fundraise for, adopt out for $$$, and claim they "saved" the dogs from a horrible puppy mill fate. Riddle me this: if you want to put commercial breeders out of business, are you going to accomplish that by paying 4-5x for a pup what another commercial breeder will pay? Or are you lining their pockets and encouraging them to breed more dogs? Simple laws of supply and demand answer that question...

Google "why you should never purchase a puppy from a breeder at Christmas" and you'll find all kinds of articles explaining that only bad, greedy breeders will sell a puppy at Christmas time, that's the worst time of year to buy a puppy, etc. But look at the number of rescues who were posting pics of a sad-looking puppy sitting in Santa's lap in December with the caption "all I want for Christmas is a family", and read all the PR put out by rescues that "Christmas is the perfect time to adopt a homeless dog"...try to wrap your mind around that for a few minutes.

I fully support reputable rescues and reputable breeders. I detest retail rescue and for-profit breeders. Unfortunately, most people are falling prey to the "Adopt don't shop" mantra and lumping all breeders into the "bad" category and assuming all rescues are awesome. We adopt kids, we purchase pets....pets are considered property (which is a good thing, it gives us protection under the Constitution for unlawful seizure) and if you hand over $ in exchange for a pet, regardless of where you're getting that pet, you are PURCHASING that pet.

Overheard a conversation a while back in the vet's office, two ladies there with Chihuahuas. One said how much she loved the breed, the other agreed, both of them bonded over the fact that their dogs were rescues, followed by the "I'll always have a Chihuahua, they're such lovely dogs, but I'll NEVER buy one from a breeder! I'll always adopt one in need!" Well honey, where do you think that rescue Chihuahua comes from, the magical Chihuahua giver in the sky? Purebred dogs from rescues were 99% likely bred by a for-profit breeder, because all reputable breeders put it in their contracts that the dog must be returned to them/never surrendered to a shelter, we microchip our dogs, regularly follow up with the owners to see how things are going, and if we hear that a dog we bred is in a shelter/rescue we'll go to the end of the earth to get it back. BTW both of them were at the vet's because their dogs have ongoing health conditions that are not uncommon in poorly bred Chi's, and if they had purchased their dogs from a reputable breeder who health tests their dogs they'd be saving $ hand over fist (and their dogs would be in less pain and living a happier life as a result).

What the H$U$ and other groups don't want you to know is that 85% of all dogs/cats in the USA are already spayed & neutered. Only a few million dogs/cats are euthanized in shelters every year, and many of those are in poor health/have iffy temperaments or are downright aggressive or are otherwise unsuitable for rehoming for one reason or another. The rest are pits and pit mixes, and not everyone wants a pit :shrug:. 

The ASPCA published this article, sent to animal shelters across the country, regarding the SHORTAGE of adoptable puppies and hinting that rescues need to start BREEDING puppies to prevent people from getting a puppy from an evil breeder . 

http://naiaonline.org/blog/shelter-...es-and-shelters-is-a-good-thing/#.U0_fpqLjmQj


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I get so tired of self-righteous people on facebook ordering everyone to adopt a dog rather than buying a purebred from a reputable breeder. 

My dogs and cats have always been spayed and neutered and we've never deliberately or accidentally had a litter of puppies or kittens. Not my area of expertise. 
But when I want a Border Terrier because they are incredibly good with children, or a Great Pyr to guard my livestock or a bull terrier because I just like them and want to have one...I get annoyed when someone chides me because I don't want to get a dog of unknown lineage from a shelter.


----------



## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Forcast said:


> here the humane society is a joke. you have to jump through so many hoops only friends get the nice dogs. under the table stuff going on all the time. I could pass for human adoption before they would let me have a dog. They actually said they wanted me to fence all 5+ acres. They come visit you several times unannounced. Call your vet and have a heart to heart talk.


Well, we have 7 acres fully fenced with woven wire fencing and a strand of electric at the top. They still would not let us purchase one. 

You could of fence your place then they would just come up with another issue.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The problem with rescues, and with some dog registries, is that they have adopted policy based on propaganda from what basically amounts to radical terrorist organizations. When in fact, those organizations believe that in the end, pets are "better dead than fed." How better to achieve the goal of no pets under cruel captivity than to turn everyone against responsible breeders and get everyone else to neuter their pets. Their entire mantra needs to be rejected. Everything they say must not be believed. They attack one facet of animal ownership at a time. Today it is zoo elephants, tomorrow it is the cruel people that have dogs trapped behind electric fences and force them to live with other species and potentially fight with wild animals. They are coming for all animals and every use of an animal, one step at a time.

I haven't raised many pups, but the ones that I have, it seems like they take a good deal of care and management. If the gyp is not fed and fairly free of parasites, she will not have enough milk. If the pups don't get some worming and vaccination, they aren't going to make it to selling age. I can't really see how somebody that is truly a puppy mill could make much of a profit and stay in business very long if they didn't practice some fairly decent husbandry with their "stock". If they were allowed to operate openly, the bad operators would get weeded out pretty quickly. I wonder how many of the pictures of severely malnourished females that supposedly come from a puppy mill actually came from some "rescuer" trying to crank out a few pups to fund their work? I wonder how many "breeders" with an animal hoarding problem that used to do business as a puppy mill simply changed their name to "rescue"?


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

I was looking at dogs the other day. One of the HSUS in Illinois has a $500 adoption fee!

Mon


----------



## My2butterflies (Jan 17, 2015)

Rescues drive me nuts. Here it's hard to find young dogs or puppies in the local HS. And when they happen to get any pups in they cost well over $500. Even on Craigslist to get a pup average is between $400-$900! 
We waited over a year to find a puppy that cost under $300 in the breed we wanted. 
The only shelter around here I don't see as evil is the local pound. Most dogs there are under $100. Average is $75 or less. They neuter/spay update shots and yet don't require the crazy fees the humane society charges. I think that goes to show who is being greedy. 
The only reason we didn't adopt was because we were in the market for a pit and I don't trust someone's cast off dog with who knows what issues. I would otherwise have liked getting an adult dog. Our boxer we took on(adopted) from a couple(mom was a breeder) is the most amazing boy. He just turned three when we got him and I feel I was spoiled being able to skip the puppy years. 

I just hate that it's assumed you'll be a bad pet owner if you don't pay $500+ for a dog. Or a high price for any animal. Just lies greedy people use to justify requiring ridiculously high prices for animals.


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Katie Schuler
February 26 at 10:48am
PAWS Rescue in Forest Hill has the following puppies available for immediate adoption. Please read under the pictures for their information.
Our adoption fee is $350, $50 is refunded after spay/neuter which is REQUIRED before the pup turns 7 months old. All pups have at least their first vaccine, bordatella vaccine, flea and hw preventative, microchip, dewormings, vet check, and adoption folder with specials. 
Please email [email protected] for an application, do not PM me

when I asked were did the pups come from : Tenn.


----------



## tree-farmer (Jul 5, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> http://www.seattledogspot.com/dog-a...rantined-puppies-into-washington-from-mexico/
> 
> If there is a dog overpopulation problem, why in the world are people bringing in dogs from Mexico? Maybe trying to bring in a disease to help control population?


We brought a dog home from Mexico before. She was rescued from a garbage dump where she was born. Treated by a vet for mange, they gave her all her shots and had her spayed. I think we paid $40. This rescue certainly was not profiting and they were helping a lot of animals.
We couldn't keep her since I am allergic to the short-haired dogs but we found her a loving home with a friend of ours up here. She's a healthy dog and certainly did not spread any disease.


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I wrote my feelings about humane society and rescues here.
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/li...als/549112-humane-society-rescues-others.html

I asked recently why such a high fee and was told it is mostly to recover the vet cost ( see the above post of cost for vet per year)
My option of the vets they hire is they only use quacks. My last to pound pups got sick, one the next day after I picked her up was so sick and not eating she was at our vets 3 days a healthy vet bill paid for that one. Second one was sick within a week but we were lucky with that one and only had to buy meds still a cost we should have not had if they had taken or had a* GOOD* vet with a *GOOD REPUTATION* check the pup/dog over first.

Put a little more money with what the rescue is charging and visit a breeder and buy a pup.
We bought one last Saturday and for what we paid we get a pup with a one year health warranty, she is chipped and has up to date shots. When we pick her up we will be given all the health records and the papers to register her if we wish and it is also up to us if we want to have her spayed or not and it will not be done automatically by a quack at 8 weeks either. 

As I said visit the breeder see how they run their operation.

 Al


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

oneraddad said:


> I also have 9 puppies right now, they're almost 4 weeks old. Mine are Golden retrievers and I ask $600 which is very reasonable I believe.


----------



## romysbaskets (Aug 29, 2009)

oneraddad said:


>


Oh they are just beautiful~ Sigh.......keep me away from pups like these..what great looking parents....and adorable children!


----------



## Jlynnp (Sep 9, 2014)

barnbilder said:


> They are pricing them at what the market will bear. With all of the spay and neuter and anti-breeder, adopt don't shop movements that have gone on, there really aren't a lot of puppies being produced. Except for the ones being bred in the huge overseas puppy mills to supply the "rescues."


The so called "huge" puppy mills are not overseas but here in the good old USA. Go to the national breed club for the breed you want and mst have referral services for responsible breeders


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Well. if there are so many "puppy mills" in the US. (Whatever a puppy mill is, I've yet to see a definition.) Why are rescue groups shipping them in from other countries like Mexico and Turkey? Why are they stealing peoples dogs to sell in their shelters? 

It's because there is more demand for pets than the people that can qualify as "responsible breeders" can supply.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I've seen a lot of changes in dog breeding in the last 40+ years. I am a third generation dog breeder, my Grandpa bred Labs for field trials and show, my mother bred several breeds over many years for show and obedience. I bred mainly for show, but also worked hard to maintain the natural hunting instinct in my dogs (when I was breeding English Setters). I've helped at our local rescue for decades, mainly with grooming. 

There are puppy mills, one was busted in our area several years ago, it was awful. She had locked some of her dogs in a building and was letting them die of thirst and starvation, just crazy. Most of her dogs were unsocialized and pretty darn crazy. I fostered two of them for a time, one was pretty nuts, the other was young and should have made a good pet, I don't know for sure what happened with her, she went back to the rescue when I had to be out of town for a while, but she was a nice dog. However, most of them were quite traumatized by the lack of care and probably had poor temperaments to start with. I groomed several of them, they were terrified by any handling. 

Our local pet rescue is awesome and worked hard to salvage the ones that could be helped. I have no beef with them at all. I would have adopted from them when we last looked for dogs, but they just didn't have many. We ended up buying a five month old Collie from a very good breeder and got an awesome dog that we just love, with a fantastic background. She is exactly what I expected. We also got a retired showdog (English Setter) from an old friend who is also exactly what I expected and a wonderful pet. I love a good dog, purebred or not. I've had both over the years, I just love dogs. 

I miss breeding, but it was a lot of work and stress and I'm glad I'm not doing it any more in this political climate. Our well bred Collie has had two litters for her breeder - we leased her back and helped to raise the pups, great fun - and will be spayed this summer. She has 2 Champions in the first litter and 3 more from that litter that are expected to finish. She also has puppies with above average health and that will be doing obedience, rally, agility, herding, tracking, you name it. There are at least 3 of the second litter in show homes too. I like being able to help a reputable breeder continue her bloodline and to produce puppies of quality and health.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I would not take anything in the world for my Mutt, Sammie. Having her come back from a place in her former life where she was scared to death and so anxious to the lovable, sweet companion that she is today is worth whatever price we could have paid for her. We paid $150 for her but she was spayed, up to date on all shots, groomed and up to date on heartworm meds. All dogs are wonderful creatures no matter whether purebred or mixes.


----------



## tree-farmer (Jul 5, 2015)

barnbilder said:


> Well. if there are so many "puppy mills" in the US. (Whatever a puppy mill is, I've yet to see a definition.) Why are rescue groups shipping them in from other countries like Mexico and Turkey? Why are they stealing peoples dogs to sell in their shelters?
> 
> It's because there is more demand for pets than the people that can qualify as "rIesponsible breeders" can supply.


 I feel like most rescues probably are honest and doing a good job but like with anything you can expect there to be some people who are just in it to make a buck, no matter how. And like most things it is buyer beware. It's obviously worth learning a bit about the breeders and the parents of the puppies. A friend's ex once "rescued" a dog from a puppy-mill with a broken leg. He paid $1000. A fool and his money are easily separated.
Most of the rescue dogs around here come from the native reservations. Stray dogs and semi-stray dogs often roam in packs there, and puppies happen. We got one of our dogs that way, free at the gas station and from very nice people, they just have more of a live and let live attitude than we do.
The rescues around here come from the SPCA or this ranch that deals more with horses or pet farm animals. Puppies usually go instantly and the older dogs are more difficult for them to find homes for. The crazy do-gooders always try to tell anyone looking for a dog to adopt from a rescue but for a lot of people it doesn't make sense. While it is sad to think of all the dogs in cages unable to find a home, a lot of people want to know their dog from a puppy and less experienced dog owners probably shouldn't be adopting a 4 year old rescue if they aren't going to be able to train it properly and deal with the issues it may have. 
So it seems like there is more demand for puppies than legitimate rescues can provide, so there is a need for breeders. The do-gooders seem to think it is perfectly reasonable for someone to breed purebreds but will shout at anyone breeding mutts until they lose their voice. If prices for mutt puppies is "high" it is because there is a demand for them, though that price is nearly always less than what you'd pay for a purebred. Not trying to start a purebred vs mutt argument but obviously most purebreds were bred for a specific task. If you are looking for a working dog, you probably want a breed that excels at that task. Or if you are buying a pet dog and you're into a particular breed, nothing wrong with that either. It's your life and your money, do as you like. For a lot of other people breed is unimportant and they are just looking for a dog as a pet, and a less expensive mutt will do just fine. But if prices for those mutts are high it is because demand exceeds supply, and the do-gooders probably have something to do with that. I feel like they'd be protesting on our lawn if we ever bred our dogs.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

"Do gooders", uninformed fools that make decisions for the governance of others based on emotion. There was a time when roving bands of mangy, flea bitten, un-socialized "reservation dogs" were "hunted down like a dog." Dog fighting cast offs and out of control guard dogs got the same treatment. Now, thanks to the outcry of idiots, people will spend thousands of dollars on these worthless rejects, and clog the rescue system with them. Other places, between crusades, will import rejects from somewhere else, to keep their bank accounts solvent. Some poor old dog that is friendly and well behaved, whose owner died, went to assisted living, etc. will get gassed thanks to do-gooders always out to save some basket case. Crying the whole time about spaying and neutering, the evils of puppy mills, and funding the whole crazy thing by selling high priced garbage.
The registries and breed clubs back them right up, too. They make it sound like anyone that crossbreeds is a criminal. Then the rescues turn around and lie and steal to supply the market for crossbred dogs. Most people want a dog that is some breed, few people need a particular breed for fertilizing the back yard and walking at the park. Even people that use performance based dogs care little about breed. You think a German Shepherd/Mal cross won't take the seat out of your britches? You think a walker/bluetick cross won't tree a mountain lion? You think a lab/chessie cross won't go get a duck? Then your logic has been corrupted by the breed club/animal rights propaganda machine.


----------



## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Those really are lovely animals - sigh. Now if you would please turn them into non shedding animals I would love one!


----------



## RichNC (Aug 22, 2014)

barnbilder said:


> Some poor old dog that is friendly and well behaved, whose owner died, went to assisted living, etc. will get gassed thanks to do-gooders always out to save some basket case.


Not where I live, granted there are rescues for ask mid to high $$, but we have an amazing rescue that ONLY takes in pets of people who are dying or having to be put in a nursing home I have a foster cat from them right now and he is just a wonderful cat and the rescue and I are working hard so he can have a forever home, and I can get another foster...total cost to the forever home ZERO!!


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The Ga Rescue and Rehab where we got Sammie takes in old and sometimes abused horses, old dogs, cats, sometimes even other old large and small animals. They are very particular about where they place the horses. A person who wants to adopt a horse must be experienced with horses.


----------



## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

My2butterflies said:


> Rescues drive me nuts. Here it's hard to find young dogs or puppies in the local HS. And when they happen to get any pups in they cost well over $500. Even on Craigslist to get a pup average is between $400-$900!
> We waited over a year to find a puppy that cost under $300 in the breed we wanted.
> The only shelter around here I don't see as evil is the local pound. Most dogs there are under $100. Average is $75 or less. They neuter/spay update shots and yet don't require the crazy fees the humane society charges. I think that goes to show who is being greedy.
> The only reason we didn't adopt was because we were in the market for a pit and I don't trust someone's cast off dog with who knows what issues. I would otherwise have liked getting an adult dog. Our boxer we took on(adopted) from a couple(mom was a breeder) is the most amazing boy. He just turned three when we got him and I feel I was spoiled being able to skip the puppy years.
> ...


The problem is that breeding correctly costs money. Pups in my breed go for $2500 - $3500, which is a LOT of money. But a good year for me is a year that I break even....I'm not rolling in $$$$$. The people who ARE rolling in $$$$ are the ones charging $1500 for a dog in my breed. They do no health testing, don't show their dogs, feed sub-par dog food, use cut-rate vets, etc. 

I can't even begin to tell you how many people contact me about a puppy and go ballistic when I tell them my prices. Then they go and feel all good about themselves by paying half what I charge, and just when they are enjoying that smugness, the trouble starts....dog is spinning (genetic neurological condition), dog has a severe heart murmur (genetic aortic stenosis), dog has a terrible disposition and is ugly with people and animals (genetic temperament issues)....and lo and behold when they contact the cut-rate breeder they got the dog from they either get ignored or told that it's not their problem.

If you want a new BMW, do you buy one from a reliable source or do you get one off craigslist? If you paid half price for a new BMW from a shady source, would you be surprised if that car broke down within months of you getting it? 

Now many breeds do not have the level of expenses that my breed does. I just bought a very well-bred smooth Collie for $800 and that to me was so cheap that I was leery until I did all my research. In many breeds, if the price is under $1200, the breeder is cutting corners....and that means health, temperament, etc are a toss up.

Good friend of mine just went thru this, she wanted a Lab pup. I recommended some good breeders who charge $800-$1200 for an 8-week old pup from fully health tested parents with CGC's and solid temperaments. That was "too much" for her to spend, so she went with the $50 Lab pup she found on Craigslist. Met the seller in a parking lot a few hours away, no contract, no papers, no nothing. Few days later the pup was in the emergency vet with a severe parasite load and parvo, vet bill was $1200 and counting, the seller had blocked her number and eventually stopped answering all calls because she kept trying to reach her via other phone numbers. Can't say she's saving money on the dog


----------



## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Our very charges 375 a pop to check our litters over 2 different times. Full health check and blood screenings past to each buyer. And in 50 plus dollar a bag for 20 lbs bag of puppy food and 3 per can soft food and it adds up. Especially since chocolate labs have large litters. 10 on average. Then puppy pads worming, chew toys, litter registration and you aren't making much. We could charge much more than the 800 we charge. Especially since they are coming out of the first chocolate lab in us history to win the bird dog nationals and national field trials. But we just want them to go to good homes and vet our buyers big time. It's sad to see them go. We just finished a litter and my wife is pretty down. But we enjoy it very much. And people want pups that are raised with love in a home with children and family setting just like they are going to. Not cage raised pups with little interaction. They also want health guarantees that rescues and most mills won't give. So it's really a service that good breeders do to give living people a quality animal that won't end up a burden to the shelter system.


----------

