# does anyone not feed thier goats grain? Dumor vs mfa



## pygmybabies (Apr 24, 2010)

ok, so I am trying to figure out the correct stuff to feed all the different ages and kinds of goats that I have, I am weaning the 15 week old off his morning bottle as he really isnt that interested anymore, so we are down to about 2-3 oz every morning I have been feeding noble goat medicated to all the ones under a year and mfa show goat to Muffin,,,possibly preg 16 month old. I looked today and it is medicated too..So I looked at the tsc brand and the purina they looked about the same in ingredients but tsc brand was cheaper. So I got the dumor and got some BOSS and some alfala pellets. they didnt have any 3 way but did have oats and corn. If i mixed up my own oats corn and barley would it be cheaper and would I still need to give them grain? What did they do hundreds of years ago before you bought grain? Now their seems to be a science to everything, I just want to feed them right have milk, pets and maybe someday meat. Dont want to feed preservatives and chemicals as much as possible and dont want to give them corn as most of it is genetic modified and really isnt good for them, I wonder if I grew barley oats and corn if I could use my wheat grinder to grind it up..thoughts please...thanks


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## deineria (Aug 22, 2009)

My goats did not like Dumor. They like Purina Show Goat sweet feed, though.

Dumor with BOSS or corn and Alfalfa Pellets should be fine though!


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## pygmybabies (Apr 24, 2010)

they have never had boss or alfalfa pellets should I just add a little at a time?


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

I don't feed any grain to my Nigerians. They get 100% alfalfa pellets with a handful of BOSS on the milking stand. If the pasture isn't able to provide nutrition then the whole herd gets alfalfa pellets. In the winter if it is icy then they get some grass hay too.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I feed only whole oats and alfalfa pellets (Boers) during the last couple of weeks of pregnancy and while they are nursing. Other than that just hay and pasture.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

In 3rd world countries where goats are a staple for survival people dont buy grain nor farm feed or buy minerals.
They take their animals out to feed and forage on whatever is out in the wilds. Their animals survive and reproduce just fine but its only the toughest, strongest animals that survive to breed!
Here we dont follow the only the strong survive methods. We use all sorts of modern help to get the most milk, the fastest meat and highest production.

Our goats and other livestock are not strong and as durable as their 3rd world counterparts.


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## pygmybabies (Apr 24, 2010)

river...why is that do you think, why arent ours as durable? I dont want the fastest meat possible, like with cows I would rather take the 2 years and grass feed over the 6 months and be fatten with corn. I am trying to live a whole new way.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

American animals (and humans) are not bred (in general) to be durable.


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## FunnyRiverFarm (May 25, 2010)

Non-producing goats--goats that are not growing, pregnant, or lactating--do not need grain, IMO. I usually give grain to doelings for their first year so they reach breeding size sooner. I also give grain to does in the last month of their pregnancy and while they are milking. It is true that they could all survive without grain...but they would not live up to their genetic potential that way. If you want to get the most out of the goat then grain is a must. 

Wethers are the goats that never really need grain...Bucks can benefit from grain during rut but don't need it at other times.


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## MoonFire (Jun 1, 2010)

I feed grain to the bucks (w/ ammonium chlor. for urinary tract health) and the milkers a 14% wet COB type goat grain...everyone else is on pasture/hay...but all get several free choice loose minerals...iodine and copper seem to be especially crucial
! 

JS Oregon


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

Dumor is made by purina without the price tag. Dumor sweet does not contain AC like all the other goat feeds that TSC carries. the sweet gives great milk but if its for other type goats i tend to reccomend the other dumor feed as it has ac in for the boys and not a sweet feed. All grain with the black oil sunflower seeds is a suitable feed as well, and not as expensive as the rest. If you ask, part of TSC is that we are suposed to give you one trial bag of feed for a penny, so if you concerned about if they will like it ask a manager, its not something we blast out loud but it is something that as a company we do (tsc, im a manager at one)
Unless you treat the goat for coccidia the medicated feeds dont do a whole lot of good, they are good for keeping the problem from re occuring not to be used as a treatment. 

And yes once you take something out of its natural enviorment it tends not to thrive as well and extra care has to be taken of the animal. I cant think of once I have seen a well fleshed animal living in a 3rd world country and they are asked allot of and tend not to live a very long life. So without getting on my soap box to badly, Im glad to spend a few dollars on minerals, feed and a little bit of time on maintance. The vast majority of people dont take time to do research to even find what is better for there area and spend way to much money.
What works for me in Ga is not likely to work as well as Vicky in TX, theres needs we each have unique to our area though some of the basics are the same. Most people would rather throw money at things they dont need than to find out, and Im happy to know the people here are always asking and great advise is given.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

No grain here. Handfull Boss at bedtime only. Grass hay, Alfalfa, pasture and browse


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I make my girl work too hard to not give her grain! She's a heavy milker, so she gets corn, oats, BOSS, some shredded beet pulp, in addition to free choice alfalfa pellets and hay, and browse, of course.

The kids get what grain they can swipe from the doe, as well as free choice alfalfa pellets, hay, and browse.

And yeah, I toss a handful of grain for the buck and wether to share. They don't necessarily need it, but it makes them happy and it makes me happy, too. (Of course, they still get their browse and hay!)


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## emanuelcs34 (Dec 5, 2007)

I feed my Nigies alfalfa, pasture, and alfalfa pellets mixed with oats on the milkstand. The only one that needs any grain is the nubian, to keep some weight on. If it wasn't for her I wouldn't feed grain at all.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

I heard that goats give richer milk if they DON'T have grain. Maybe not as much milk, but higher in butterfat. Anyone else heard this?


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## deineria (Aug 22, 2009)

If you've been overseas, you will have seen the condition of the goats and know, they are neither healthy or nice looking creatures - lol. I can assure you of this. Now, they are hardy, and if given good care, might look very fine. . .but under the conditions, they are sickly looking creatures. I wouldn't want those in my yard - 

Yes, if you're feeding bucks and wethers this mix, add AC (ammonium chloride). . .but the bucks might do find on just alfalfa pellets and browse.


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## christie (May 10, 2008)

My non lactating doe only get alfalfa pellets and an occasional handful of boss. Oh, and hay at bed time, forage in the day. And she is getting a bit heavy.
Girls on the stand get grain plus what the others get too!


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## christie (May 10, 2008)

They do fine with just hay and or alfalfa to answer your question.


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

Well you know me  I feed Dumor/alfalfa pellet/BOSS mix, (plus everything else) for my own reasons- lactating doe, pregnant doe due in 2 months, young kids yada yada. 
Once you start they will never let you stop!! "ponders over her slightly spoiled, over-indulged goat herd"


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

christie said:


> They do fine with just hay and or alfalfa to answer your question.


Not dissing what you're saying, but can a lactating doe actually get enough energy from just hay or alfalfa? 

My gal is a big Nubian. I'm having a heckuva time keeping any meat on her bones right now because she's in milk. 

The OP asked how it was done "hundreds of years ago," but that just wouldn't be pertinent today. Agricultural practices were different, and people didn't push their animals as they do now. 

We have set up an artificial system with our goats, starting with breeding for size and production. Because we've set it up this way, the animals have far different nutritional requirements for optimal health and production.

Will they survive on just hay? Sure. Will they thrive? I doubt it.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Hundreds of years ago, they fed milking does grain. At least, according to old farm records from the U.K. and Europe, they did. They generally fed a mixture of "corn, oats, and wheat", the "corn" in this instance meaning "barley corn".

Different people had different mixtures they swore by; some used rye instead of wheat, but barley and oats seems to have been the staple.

REALLY old records from ancient Egypt show that they fed their milking animals (cows and goats) grain during lactation, so this practice has been going on for thousands of years, rather than hundreds.


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## QoTL (Jun 5, 2008)

I agree that grain seems to be pretty essential, especially with lactating does. Due to a mistake in our budget, I ran out of grain and couldn't get more for two days. My milk production dropped quickly from my doe until I was only getting 1/2 the milk she had given me just 2 days before! Taught me a valuable lesson!

We also need to consider that animals are now bred for specific purposes, which means they are bred OUT of other things. Think of hybrid vigor (what I would think would be similar to the more common 'mutts' from before the intensive breeding). My mutt dog does well no matter what I feed him, healthy and happy. My purebred otoh has a much pickier body. 

It's a bit of what I consider 'hothouse flowers' in our livestock. When you coddle them for extra production, and you breed for people who coddle for extra production, then you lose what kept them healthy originally when they had rougher situations. 

Other people will argue with me there, and are welcome to do so  It's just a pet theory. It all boils down to the fact that I think our animals today do need more specialized care because we've bred them that way. They don't need everything we give them, certainly. But they need more than creatures who are allowed a more 'natural' state.

As one final example, I've been hatching chicks forever. I carefully brood them in a box at the required temps, and carefully keep them toasty and fed. My broody chicken hatched two chicks, and after the first couple of days, had those babies out and about. I think they WERE a little cold because they peeped a lot, but they certainly didn't die even though it was 60 instead of 90. OTOH, my broody lost both of her chicks (unrelated to the cold), and the ones I have in the brooder are still going strong, so it's a tradeoff I suppose.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

QoTL said:


> It all boils down to the fact that I think our animals today do need more specialized care because we've bred them that way. They don't need everything we give them, certainly. But they need more than creatures who are allowed a more 'natural' state.


It's more that we ask more of them, and that is why they need more feed.

Turn a herd of Nubians loose to go feral on some decent land. Sure, they will thrive on the browse and graze they get, and in a few generations, you will have animals that kid easily and are efficient feeders.

What you won't have are animals that produce lots of milk. Because they will have spent those generations ONLY producing enough for their offspring, and drying up naturally when those offspring are weaned.

If we want them to produce more than nature intended for them to produce, then we need to provide food that is more than they would get in nature.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

They used to say that cows could never produce without grain - but now they are discovering that grass based dairies do work. Because the animals aren't "pushed" the yields are lower, however the animals in general are healthier and don't "wear out" as soon. Plus Milk from 100-percent grass-fed animals is much healthier than ordinary milk. It has a higher concentration of vitamins and antioxidants, fewer &#8220;bad&#8221; fats, and more &#8220;healthy&#8221; fats such as omega-3 fatty acids and CLA (conjugated linoleic acid). 

Dairy Goats: Sustainable Production is an interesting article on setting up a sustainable dairy goat operation. Here is an excerpt concerning grass based dairying.


> Researchers found that body condition of the does greatly influenced milk production, with thinner does being less productive during the lactation. Internal parasite problems also had a negative effect on production. Milk production responded to grain, increasing by 1.7 pounds for every added pound of supplemental feed. However, in the second year of the study, when the does were kidded in better body condition, does fed no supplemental grain produced 7.74 lb. milk/day, while those in the barn produced 8.91 lb/day, and the does fed a small amount of grain (1/3 lb. for each pound of milk over 3.3 lb/day) produced 9.17 lb/day.
> 
> Considering the cost of grain and alfalfa hay, it seems likely that the goats on pasture were much more economical to feed and produced comparable quantities of milk. This has implications for those considering organic dairies and for others who want to reduce feed costs. Hart notes that butterfat percentages were lower in the second year for goats that were not supplemented. He also notes that having high-quality forage available in adequate amounts is the key to feeding dairy goats on pasture. The full description of this research is available on-line at www2.luresext.edu/goats/library/field/hart02.html.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I have been raising dairy goats for about 15 yrs; and been visiting this forum about 10 yrs. I have learned there are as many ways to feed goats as there are people who raise them. I have come to believe it only matters that the goats get a steady diet of whatever keeps them healthy and this is different in each location for each breed.

I mix 3 types of grains for "all" my goats. The bucks get a smaller amount than milking does and all is dependant upon the condition of the pastures and bailed hay that year. If I do make changes in their food (and that is rare), it is done very, very slowly; and since I always add a dab of Probios the first few days of this transition. (Since I stopped making use of our local vets, our herd has done beautifully.)


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

I feed very little grain and only use whole foods, no pre-mixed products. We feed 1:2 ratio of whole barley to whole oats and it works for us. Only the milkers get 1 pound per day split into two feedings. The pregnant does get a little if they are getting very close to kidding, just to make sure they don't get stomach upset along with kidding due to introducing a new feed at freshening.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

pygmybabies said:


> If i mixed up my own oats corn and barley would it be cheaper and would I still need to give them grain?
> I wonder if I grew barley oats and corn if I could use my wheat grinder to grind it up..thoughts please...thanks


I think most thread responders missed the above sections of the OPs post. I do not *think* she is not asking if there are people who feed no grains at all to their growing and working goats, but if there are people who do not feed sacked feeds such as Dumor, Purina and MFA brands. Please, OP, correct me if I'm wrong.:cowboy:

Many, many people just feed their own mix of whole grains(barley, oats, corn, black oil sunflower seeds, etc), and have been doing it for years with great success. They fed whole grains to livestock back in the days long, long, long before there were pelleted mixes available. They were using whole grains for livestock back in Biblical times and before.

I won't feed sacked mixed feeds to my goats. I use a simple mix of whole dry oats and black oil sunflower seeds that I mix myself. They also have free-choice loose minerals and fresh water. Hay or browse, whichever is in season. Sometimes they have hay and browse. They do extremely well on this and have for years.

Whole grains is the healthiest way to feed supplements to your goats. Don't let the feed companies con you into thinking you need their sacked mixes.

Working goats on my place(heavy-bred, lactating does, growing kids, and working bucks) get a small ration of whole grain to help them live and grow to their potential. If they are dry, short-bred, non-working bucks or does, they only get hay or browse. Grain for a non-working goat just makes them fat.

So yes, there are many people on this site who do not buy sacked grains for their goats(for multiple reasons), they feed whole grains to their working does and bucks and growing kids. It is working extremely well for me.


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## pygmybabies (Apr 24, 2010)

ozark, yes in a way i was asking if you can get by without feeding grain at all. I would like to mix mine as well, as I just dont want to give lots of corn to my animals. I want to thank everyone as I have learned tons from this, and I feel better now, about feeding them, I just love them and want to do what is right, I dont want to not feed them enough or the wrong thing. I talked to a guy at the elevator this morning and he is going to help me make a recipe up with what I want to give them, so that is next on my agenda.
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE, more comments are still welcome, I love learning all I can!


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

pygmybabies said:


> ozark, yes in a way i was asking if you can get by without feeding grain at all.


Ah, ok. In my opinion, a heavy working goat needs a bit of good whole grains to produce and live to potential. At the very least, if you decide to feed no grain at all, you'd better have a few years of experience under your belt and have done an awful lot of studying.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

pygmybabies said:


> Dont want to feed preservatives and chemicals as much as possible and dont want to give them corn as most of it is genetic modified and really isnt good for them, I wonder if I grew barley oats and corn if I could use my wheat grinder to grind it up..thoughts please...thanks




This is why I feed just whole oats and black oil sunflower seeds. I know exactly what my girls are eating this way. 
I don't like to feed much or any corn as it is a hot feed and as you say, much is GMO.
If you grew your own grains, you would not need to grind it, it can be fed whole and it doesn't loose any fat or nutrition that way. If you decided to grind it, then feed it right away so it doesn't loose feed value.
You would need to be careful when drying your homegrown grains, as you don't want ANY molds.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

ozark_jewels said:


> Ah, ok. In my opinion, a heavy working goat needs a bit of good whole grains to produce and live to potential. At the very least, if you decide to feed no grain at all, you'd better have a few years of experience under your belt and have done an awful lot of studying.


Very true - you have to really know your pasture/forage. Grass based dairy folks have their pastures tested and they sow specific grasses and shrubbery for specific dietary needs. I only buy my alfalfa pellets from a local farm that both grows and processes it and routinely has their product tested.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

pygmybabies said:


> ozark, yes in a way i was asking if you can get by without feeding grain at all. I would like to mix mine as well, as I just dont want to give lots of corn to my animals.


Are you avoiding corn because of GMOs? 

We're growing open pollinated corn (Reid Dent), tested neg for GMO infiltration. Hoping that the corn growers around here are far enough away that we can avoid pollen drift and contamination of our seed crop.

I don't necessarily think corn is best for my goats, but it's an awfully convenient, easy to grow and store food with lots of bang for the buck (and doe, too -- ha!)


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## sonya01234 (Jun 11, 2009)

i have a question what is BOSS?? thank you


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## deineria (Aug 22, 2009)

Black Oil Sunflower Seeds


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

pygmies are also hardier than most breeds thus requiring less feed per pound of body weight. I have nigerians, feeding half the amount to them as I was the boers and have almost 3xs the goats. Your goats will tell you more than anyone here can. Are there coats good? are the in good weight, active and have the other classic signs of being healthy? If so keep doing what you are doing, if not then its time to change something.


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