# The drawback of state level constitutional carry



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

For the ninth or tenth year one of our state level legislators has introduced a bill to do away with CCW permits.

Of course the state Sheriff's Association chairman initially said doing away with permits would significantly reduce S.O. discretionary funding as permit fees have always stayed in the county that the statewide CCW permit is issued.

After a couple weeks of newspaper articles for and against concealed carry without a permit an article finally told of the real drawback stated by five of our county Sheriffs of this state in that unless all states were to abandon CCW permits, if this state were to abandon the requirement of a permit, we would not be able to carry outside of our state as all the connecting states to us reciprocate our carry permits.

I make trips to neighboring states and carry my weapon almost every month going to car sales or taking weekend vacations and those trips justify my permit cost fee expense at less than the cost of a gallon of fuel used on a trip to not worry about having my weapon outside of my home state.

As long as other states require permits and reciprocate with other states, I don't see our state eliminating CCW permits and this state will continue being a shall issue after passing the background check permit and allowing in state transportation restricted open carry that passed the legislature a few years back.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

state level is the only way it is going to happen.

expect anything federal to be a mess , useless or worse than useless and a step int he wrong direction.

how many people never leave the state or only rarely? not taxing a right would be a good thing.

if Sheriffs need CCW money to run you already have a broken funding model.

LE agencies should never get to keep the money they collect it should go at the roads fund or some other tax offset and they should be fully funded by the tax payer.

why should they be fully funded by the tax payer ? so that the tax payer has a say and also because in virtually every place where the LE agency gets to keep the money collected it had made for a corrupt broken policing model that results in more deaths and less justice than in adjacent districts that fund fully 


*what says that you couldn't do like every other state that has gone constitutional carry and let people carry free then charge the fee for the card if they want to go to another state.*

sounds like yall are getting played again by your SO, by your politicians and by your media.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Shrek said:


> if this state were to abandon the requirement of a permit, we would not be able to carry outside of our state as all the connecting states to us reciprocate our carry permits.


Most states with "constitutional carry" have provisions to issue a permit to cover that contingency. For many people it wouldn't matter much anyway.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

very much sounds like a state house tantrum well if we can't have all your money then we will abandon everything and punish you for wanting to be free.


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

GCP,
Your right about the S.O. funding issues being weird. I don't mind paying a permit fee for a statewide permit that with reciprocation allows me to carry my weapon even into Texas when I go to spend my week long winter fishing vacation, but it would be nice if it went to the state and got issued out better.

Some counties have surplus equipment , yet as you said, roads need repairs and our state patrol is so understaffed where each county used to have a trooper post staffed with 4 to 8 patrol units to work interstate highways and fatality accidents , now 3/4 of the county trooper posts are closed field offices in case the cruiser MDTs crash and the trooper patrol zone is often from the north state line to the south state line or east to west lines and city or county patrols often have to hold fatality wreck scenes for one to 2 hours as a trooper travels from a wreck 100 miles away to work the next one.

A guy I was in high school with told me since so many left the trooper force that now he has to have his oil changed every week instead of every two to three weeks when he first became a trooper.

One of the articles on the CCW permit fees going to the S.O. discretionary funds for department equipment in the counties in my area indicated they total between $300,000 to $500,000 per year depending on the population density of the county.


----------



## flewism (Apr 2, 2007)

I know a person who a couple of years ago moved from AZ back to MI and went through some of this. He had a permit in AZ for 20 years then when AZ did no longer require a permit he chose not to renew. Then moved back to MI, He had to take the CPL courses in MI to be allowed to carry in MI. He drove his truck through a dozen states with a weapon on him to get to MI and if he was pulled over and that weapon found his troubles would have grown exponentially. If he had maintained his per AZ permit he would have been OK , and MI would have rubber stamped and issued a MI permit based on his AZ permit.

I found this out that he was carrying in MI without a permit in conversation a few weeks after his arrival and that he hadn't registered his hand guns in MI once he became a Michigan resident so I enlightened him. County PD were good when he walked in with a half dozen hand gun to register, and I got him signed up for a class at the local eagles club then it took two months for his MI CPL to show up.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

flewism said:


> I know a person who a couple of years ago moved from AZ back to MI and went through some of this. He had a permit in AZ for 20 years then when AZ did no longer require a permit he chose not to renew. Then moved back to MI, He had to take the CPL courses in MI to be allowed to carry in MI. He drove his truck through a dozen states with a weapon on him to get to MI and if he was pulled over and that weapon found his troubles would have grown exponentially. If he had maintained his per AZ permit he would have been OK , and MI would have rubber stamped and issued a MI permit based on his AZ permit.
> 
> I found this out that he was carrying in MI without a permit in conversation a few weeks after his arrival and that he hadn't registered his hand guns in MI once he became a Michigan resident so I enlightened him. County PD were good when he walked in with a half dozen hand gun to register, and I got him signed up for a class at the local eagles club then it took two months for his MI CPL to show up.


had your friend applied for his AZ carry card for out of state travel he would have likely had it in a week or two and then he would have been good through most of the states and MI would have recognized it. 

but people who are used to living free can hardly even imagine what the nanny state dreams up.
That does not mean that people in free states shouldn't keep living free.

if we are absolutely honest about what the founders intended all of this permits and licenses and restrictions and registrations are infringements and unconstitutional.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Shrek said:


> GCP,
> Your right about the S.O. funding issues being weird. I don't mind paying a permit fee for a statewide permit that with reciprocation allows me to carry my weapon even into Texas when I go to spend my week long winter fishing vacation, but it would be nice if it went to the state and got issued out better.
> 
> Some counties have surplus equipment , yet as you said, roads need repairs and our state patrol is so understaffed where each county used to have a trooper post staffed with 4 to 8 patrol units to work interstate highways and fatality accidents , now 3/4 of the county trooper posts are closed field offices in case the cruiser MDTs crash and the trooper patrol zone is often from the north state line to the south state line or east to west lines and city or county patrols often have to hold fatality wreck scenes for one to 2 hours as a trooper travels from a wreck 100 miles away to work the next one.
> ...


I completely understand the want to keep it local money just seems to disappear when it hits the state level.

but CCW holders are people seldom in need of policing. some Michigan numbers indicate that the average CCP holder is unlikely to even have a speeding citation in a 5 year time period. they are less likely than the average citizen to have any police contact.

300k or even 500k is not huge money when it comes to county budgets but if you could propose that half that money go back to CCW education and training like building ranges and SO offering reduced price classes at those ranges you could begin to change the funding model and benefit those who's money it is while strengthening the CCW in your state then maybe the fight for constitutional carry would carry it's self


----------

