# Open Carry Activists



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I'm curious what you all think the reaction would be in different parts of the country, if a group of Muslims dressed in traditional clothing...robes, headscarves etc. exercised their second amendment rights and open carried with guns slung over their backs and started frequenting Starbucks, Target, etc.


I will admit to being pretty uncomfortable with it. But I'm uncomfortable with most civilians walking around with guns on their backs unless they're hunting and in the woods.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I think most of the open carry displays do far more harm than good.

There are probably about 10% on either side (on any issue) who are hard core, and the remaining 80% who don't much care either way.

If gun owners start intimidating that 80% by "exercising their rights", it won't turn out well at the polls when gun issues come up for votes


----------



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

If being a rectal orifice is part of exercising your rights you may want to do a little thinking.


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Clearly you have not been to open carry states where no one cares that you have a pistol on your hip openly! It's commonly accepted. Much like Texas, a bunch of people have guns in their trucks and no one cares. If you stopped and thought that maybe if someone went into the gas station and saw 4 out of 11 people toting guns they might back out. The aurora Colorado shooter did not go to the nearest movie theatre he went to one that said no guns online so no one could shoot back! Guns are a tool people use to commit crimes just like bats, tire iron, pens, knives, fertilizer and diesel! Try banning those things!


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

basketti said:


> I'm curious what you all think the reaction would be in different parts of the country, if a group of Muslims dressed in traditional clothing...robes, headscarves etc. exercised their second amendment rights and open carried with guns slung over their backs and started frequenting Starbucks, Target, etc.
> 
> 
> I will admit to being pretty uncomfortable with it. But I'm uncomfortable with most civilians walking around with guns on their backs unless they're hunting and in the woods.


As long as they stay at target and Starbucks I don't care! They won't go anywhere like bass pro or cabelas because half the people there probably have guns anyway!


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Maybe it's time to stop dividing people on left/right political views or even religious ones, and separate ourselves according to fear and courage.
Personally I have no fear of a group of armed muslims. Nor do I fear armed brown, black, red, yellow or white people.
They are just there and so am I.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> As long as they stay at target and Starbucks I don't care! They won't go anywhere like bass pro or cabelas because half the people there probably have guns anyway!


Why wouldn't they? If they are proudly exercising their 2nd amendment rights they should be more than welcome at Cabela's or BassPro...shouldn't they?


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Clearly you have not been to open carry states where no one cares that you have a pistol on your hip openly! It's commonly accepted. Much like Texas, a bunch of people have guns in their trucks and no one cares. If you stopped and thought that maybe if someone went into the gas station and saw 4 out of 11 people toting guns they might back out. The aurora Colorado shooter did not go to the nearest movie theatre he went to one that said no guns online so no one could shoot back! Guns are a tool people use to commit crimes just like bats, tire iron, pens, knives, fertilizer and diesel! Try banning those things!


I don't think twice about a gun rack in a pickup, that makes sense. So does carrying a pistol on your hip or in a shoulder holster in many instances. But walking around the mall, a restaurant, etc., with the maximum legal firepower slung over your shoulder is not normal or reasonable for your personal protection needs. It is childlike if you ask me, because children will keep pushing until they are corrected, that's how they learn boundaries. 

These doofuses that want to show the world their "assault rifle" might have the right, but no more common sense than children. Since they aren't committing a crime, the place of business will have to implement a "no firearms" policy to get rid of them and keep most of their other customers - so what did that gain for the cause of 2nd amendment rights???? Looks like a net loss to me. Bad PR with the public and less businesses that accommodate carrying. 

Inappropriate carrying is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Clearly you have not been to open carry states where no one cares that you have a pistol on your hip openly! It's commonly accepted. Much like Texas, a bunch of people have guns in their trucks and no one cares. If you stopped and thought that maybe if someone went into the gas station and saw 4 out of 11 people toting guns they might back out. The aurora Colorado shooter did not go to the nearest movie theatre he went to one that said no guns online so no one could shoot back! Guns are a tool people use to commit crimes just like bats, tire iron, pens, knives, fertilizer and diesel! Try banning those things!


Really? Arizona, Idaho and Washington don't count in your world? I lived in those states the past 25 years. I have a gun in my truck right now. I've carried my Ruger on my hip in a holster when I thought I might need it. I'm talking about big rifles slung over the backs of middle eastern type folks.


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

I think a bunch of American-citizen Muslims legally carrying semi-automatic black rifles and associated high capacity magazines would probably result in doubling or tripling the the business at the local gun shops and increase the the number of NRA members in the same region by the non-Muslim population.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> I think a bunch of American-citizen Muslims legally carrying semi-automatic black rifles and associated high capacity magazines would probably result in doubling or tripling the the business at the local gun shops and increase the the number of NRA members in the same region by the non-Muslim population.


I think you might be right.


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

MO_cows said:


> I don't think twice about a gun rack in a pickup, that makes sense. So does carrying a pistol on your hip or in a shoulder holster in many instances. But walking around the mall, a restaurant, etc., with the maximum legal firepower slung over your shoulder is not normal or reasonable for your personal protection needs. It is childlike if you ask me, because children will keep pushing until they are corrected, that's how they learn boundaries.
> 
> These doofuses that want to show the world their "assault rifle" might have the right, but no more common sense than children. Since they aren't committing a crime, the place of business will have to implement a "no firearms" policy to get rid of them and keep most of their other customers - so what did that gain for the cause of 2nd amendment rights???? Looks like a net loss to me. Bad PR with the public and less businesses that accommodate carrying.
> 
> Inappropriate carrying is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.


What is "maximum legal firepower"?


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

basketti said:


> Really? Arizona, Idaho and Washington don't count in your world? I lived in those states the past 25 years. I have a gun in my truck right now. I've carried my Ruger on my hip in a holster when I thought I might need it. I'm talking about big rifles slung over the backs of middle eastern type folks.


No gun scares me, with the exception of the one placed in the hands of a fool. No firearm is any deadlier than the next, all will have the same end result if used effectively one just leave more of a mess that's all. A 22 pocket revolver will provide the same outcome as my 300 win mag. Who cares what size the gun is anyway? A gun is a gun all day everyday and twice today!

Lastly, did I know you lived in Arizona Idaho and Washington is listed there but really?!? Did I know you lived in Arizona or toted a gun or had a Ruger in your truck? Nope sure didn't!


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> No gun scares me, with the exception of the one placed in the hands of a fool. No firearm is any deadlier than the next, all will have the same end result if used effectively one just leave more of a mess that's all. A 22 pocket revolver will provide the same outcome as my 300 win mag. Who cares what size the gun is anyway? A gun is a gun all day everyday and twice today!
> 
> Lastly, did I know you lived in Arizona Idaho and Washington is listed there but really?!? Did I know you lived in Arizona or toted a gun or had a Ruger in your truck? Nope sure didn't!


Then don't make stupid assumptions. 

A gun in the hands of a Muslim fanatic or any religious fanatic scares the bejesus out of me, and so does a gun in the hands of the mentally ill. And yes, fools.

And I do count as fools, those soft, citified morons who paraded around Starbucks with semi assault rifles slung over their backs.

MY stupid assumption is that they are trying to compensate for something else that isn't very big by carrying their BIG, LONG guns.


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Excuse me for the stupid assumption. Define assault rifle? I have never seen a "large" assault rifle either could you elaborate?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Excuse me for the stupid assumption. Define assault rifle? I have never seen a "large" assault rifle either could you elaborate?


Awww...now you're just being spiteful and sulky. 
Were you one of the ones carrying one on your back at Starbucks? 

I can actually see that.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

My own personal opinion.
Carrying a revolver, Glock, whatever handgun discreetly on your hip is one thing.
Carrying an AR-15 or an AK around on a sling, making a big show, is quite another thing.
While perfectly legal, it doesn't do our cause any good to scare the uninformed, the misinformed, or the ignorant.
We need to win the the battle of perception, we need to go back to guns are normal, commonplace, tools of the working class.
We've let the loony left portray guns as dangerous, the cause of all evil, and gun owners as radicals.
The bad guys are winning the propaganda war, because they are willing to lie, fabricate data and demonize honest Americans.


----------



## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Excuse me for the stupid assumption. Define assault rifle? I have never seen a "large" assault rifle either could you elaborate?


 All the liberals are such afraid of what MAY look like something they don't like, but under all that bling is NOTHING but a semi Automatic rifle that ANYONE may use at deer hunting time.
It is LOOKS that scare the be-jeepers out of them. LOL


----------



## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

basketti said:


> Then don't make stupid assumptions.
> 
> A gun in the hands of a Muslim fanatic or any religious fanatic scares the bejesus out of me, and so does a gun in the hands of the mentally ill. And yes, fools.
> *
> ...


Very well said.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

People are only afraid of so-called "assault rifles" because they are black.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf5TEoo-EY0[/ame]


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Farmerga said:


> People are only afraid of so-called "assault rifles" because they are black.


You are being facetious, aren't you? 

I think that people who aren't used to guns are afraid of them because they look like military weapons.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> You are being facetious, aren't you?
> 
> I think that people who aren't used to guns are afraid of them because they look like military weapons.


 
And how do they look like military weapons? They are black and scary looking.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

The one and only good thing I see about open carrying firearms is that it does let more of the population see that guns themselves do not hurt or kill people and in places where they are often carried openly, people do get used to them. In cities where some people never see a gun, they freak out at the mere sight of one.


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Personally, I think anyone that carries an AR around in public on their back looks like an idiot.. Or any long gun for that matter.. 

Here in WV, it's very common to see people walking around with a holster on their hip, usually with a semi-auto in it.. many times a 1911 or a glock. It's common, and doesn't bother me. Personally, I like to keep mine covered and concealed, but I don't worry much about my shirt pulling up too high and it showing.

Another really interesting thing about WV. We have some very relaxed gun laws, and a whole lot of people carry in this state. Take a look at the latest Mass Shooting maps... None here in WV... but look at all the states with all the heavy gun laws... Lots of shootings in those gun free zone states...


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> My own personal opinion.
> Carrying a revolver, Glock, whatever handgun discreetly on your hip is one thing.
> Carrying an AR-15 or an AK around on a sling, making a big show, is quite another thing.
> While perfectly legal, it doesn't do our cause any good to scare the uninformed, the misinformed, or the ignorant.
> ...


Yup. At what point in time did it become 'scary' for boy scouts to learn gun safety from scoutmasters? And shoot skeet? 
There was a big bruhaha about this training a few years ago here, in my town, by a bunch of hysterical liberal women...took a bit of calming & hopefully education to get them to shut up.
Somewhere in the last 50 or so years it became 'scary' to see a gun. 'Bout the same rtime we started giving everyone a trophy for just showing up.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Tricky Grama said:


> Yup. At what point in time did it become 'scary' for boy scouts to learn gun safety from scoutmasters? And shoot skeet?
> There was a big bruhaha about this training a few years ago here, in my town, by a bunch of hysterical liberal women...took a bit of calming & hopefully education to get them to shut up.
> Somewhere in the last 50 or so years it became 'scary' to see a gun. 'Bout the same rtime we started giving everyone a trophy for just showing up.


Hmm. Could it be because of the mass shootings? Or is that too far fetched an idea for you? :facepalm:

People that have no contact with guns except for when they read about a mass shooting will be nervous around them. Education is the key, not strapping a long gun on your back and parading around a city simply because you can.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Open carry just makes you a target and I think most do it just for the look at me factor.

If something goes down, I don't want anybody knowing my hand.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> Hmm. Could it be because of the mass shootings? Or is that too far fetched an idea for you? :facepalm:
> 
> People that have no contact with guns except for when they read about a mass shooting will be nervous around them. Education is the key, not strapping a long gun on your back and parading around a city simply because you can.


 Another rare occasion where we agree.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Hmm. Could it be because of the mass shootings? Or is that too far fetched an idea for you? :facepalm:
> 
> People that have no contact with guns except for when they read about a mass shooting will be nervous around them. Education is the key, not strapping a long gun on your back and parading around a city simply because you can.


There weren't many 'mass shootings' in the 60s, 70s. Plus why would that have any bearing? What its done in the last near decade is up the sales of guns.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Tricky Grama said:


> What its done in the last near decade is up the sales of guns.



That's good thing, right ? More guns make us more safe


----------



## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

We've been OCing here for a long time. Seems to be somethng the city folks have just discovered they can do and be just like the big boys - like driving pickups, lawn "tractors" etc. 

All these fools are going to accomplish is getting laws passed that ruin it for the rest of us.

Go back to the golf course before you hurt yourself.


----------



## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)




----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Hmm. Could it be because of the mass shootings? Or is that too far fetched an idea for you? :facepalm:
> 
> People that have no contact with guns except for when they read about a mass shooting will be nervous around them. Education is the key, not strapping a long gun on your back and parading around a city simply because you can.


I believe the problem is the propaganda
For decades now, we have been victimized by TV shows, politicians, etc. all showing how bad guns are.
As an example, I was watching a TV show a few years back, I don't remember which one, but there was a group of people, shipwrecked or something, i can't remember.
One guy had a gun, a semi auto pistol if I remember right.
There was something in the woods, a monster, wild animal, something scary...again, I don't remember what it was.
What I do remember is the guy pulled the gun out and everybody else freaked out. suddenly, the monster wasn't a problem, it was this nut with a gun.
They took the gun, dropped the mag, then threw the whole thing in different directions.
I guess the monster got them, I don't know, it's been a long time ago, but the message was "Guns are too dangerous to have, even if you are shipwrecked on an island with monsters"
That's just one example, there are thousands.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> I believe the problem is the propaganda
> For decades now, we have been victimized by TV shows, politicians, etc. all showing how bad guns are.
> As an example, I was watching a TV show a few years back, I don't remember which one, but there was a group of people, shipwrecked or something, i can't remember.
> One guy had a gun, a semi auto pistol if I remember right.
> ...


The average citizen has become very far removed their food source and often rely on the media to keep them informed. 

There also seems to be a trend with gun enthusiasts to make their firearms look as 'tough' as they can get them. Until I went to the big gun store in town with the big guy, I was of the impression that folks wanted guns that looked like what I was raised with (nice wood stocks, etc) but the market now seems to be driven by custom stocks & add ons that make them look like what they aren't. 

Kids want cool looking and parents are happy to oblige with the good old Cooey .22's that would make a terrific starting gun for a kid is left sitting on the consignment shelf with a $100 price tag while folks go look for something they can customize. 

I see the same with the Airsoft pellet guns as well. Your first pellet gun probably looked a lot like mine and mine has been passed down to my cousin's kids recently and even when my youngest got his first Airsoft, they looked like toys but now they even sell AR 15 replicas.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

wr said:


> The average citizen has become very far removed their food source and often rely on the media to keep them informed.
> 
> There also seems to be a trend with gun enthusiasts to make their firearms look as 'tough' as they can get them. Until I went to the big gun store in town with the big guy, I was of the impression that folks wanted guns that looked like what I was raised with (nice wood stocks, etc) but the market now seems to be driven by custom stocks & add ons that make them look like what they aren't.
> 
> ...



I look at the ar 10 and ar15 as the evolution of the weapon just the same as flintlock to cap lock to now. I like the platform for versatility, use them for hunting.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wr said:


> The average citizen has become very far removed their food source and often rely on the media to keep them informed.
> 
> There also seems to be a trend with gun enthusiasts to make their firearms look as 'tough' as they can get them. Until I went to the big gun store in town with the big guy, I was of the impression that folks wanted guns that looked like what I was raised with (nice wood stocks, etc) but the market now seems to be driven by custom stocks & add ons that make them look like what they aren't.
> 
> ...


I like most guns
I have my plastic fantastic guns (EBRs) but I also have my wood and blued steel.
If a gun is interesting, I'll take it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

no really said:


> I look at the ar 10 and ar15 as the evolution of the weapon just the same as flintlock to cap lock to now. I like the platform for versatility, use them for hunting.


There are literally millions who own AR's and AK's in this country that have never shot anything other than paper and steel, and have no intentions of doing so unless forced


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Tricky Grama said:


> Somewhere in the last 50 or so years it became 'scary' to see a gun. .


They started to get scary about the time bullets started coming out of them.


Believe it or not, *I'm* seeing plenty of common sense in this thread.

Carrying a holstered sidearm in public, should not be(and is usually not) that big of deal.

Carrying any rifle in public (other than a public firing range), especially those that even look like "assault" rifles, is just self serving and counterproductive, to protect one's self, or show support of gun rights.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

basketti said:


> I'm curious what you all think the reaction would be in different parts of the country, if a group of Muslims dressed in traditional clothing...robes, headscarves etc. exercised their second amendment rights and open carried with guns slung over their backs and started frequenting Starbucks, Target, etc.
> 
> 
> I will admit to being pretty uncomfortable with it. But I'm uncomfortable with most civilians walking around with guns on their backs unless they're hunting and in the woods.


I would have no problem with your hypothetical whatsoever. Anyone in my country should have the right to bear arms, not just the folks that go to my church. Second amendment and like that, well that and the fact that I don't shop at target nor frequent Starbucks.


----------



## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I fear people brainwashed from infant to hate anyone who don't believe their views. Who are encouraged to destroy infidels. I fear them carrying guns. 

Worse yet, I fear our liberal, sorry excuse for a leader, taking away a freedom that was fought for, millions of lives given, so that we may have this right to carry protection. Destroying our constitution. I fear all the close minded citizens backing this ridiculousness.


----------



## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

farmgal said:


> I fear people brainwashed from infant to hate anyone who don't believe their views. Who are encouraged to destroy infidels. I fear them carrying guns.
> 
> Worse yet, I fear our liberal, sorry excuse for a leader, taking away a freedom that was fought for, millions of lives given, so that we may have this right to carry protection. Destroying our constitution. I fear all the close minded citizens backing this ridiculousness.


I wish I could give your post 10,000 likes.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

poppy said:


> The one and only good thing I see about open carrying firearms is that it does let more of the population see that guns themselves do not hurt or kill people and in places where they are often carried openly, people do get used to them. In cities where some people never see a gun, they freak out at the mere sight of one.


Except of course when these idiots accidentally fire one off.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Patchouli said:


> Except of course when these idiots accidentally fire one off.


I'm curious as to how often that happens?


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

I guess I am like most I don't care who carries a gun responsibly. Carrying a long gun, especially improperly or any gun improperly worries me. Concealed carry or a weapon openly carried appropriately doesn't bother me. This time of year out here you will definitely see a long gun in most trucks. Along with a 4 wheeler in the back.  

I don't bat an eye on the rare occasion I glimpse a handgun in a holster. Unfortunately the open carry nonsense is popping up here in the state and if I see one of those idiots wandering around I give them a wide berth. It's not terribly time consuming or expensive or difficult to get your CC here. The people who are responsible get their CC.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I'm curious as to how often that happens?


I have posted several incidences recently. There have been several at gun shows lately. People who definitely should know better just being careless. Plenty of shootings involving kids getting a hold of gun improperly carried, there have been a couple of teachers who dropped guns. A couple of police officers. A few open carries. A few with a license. Fortunately most of them just shoot themselves.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> I have posted several incidences recently. There have been several at gun shows lately. People who definitely should know better just being careless. Plenty of shootings involving kids getting a hold of gun improperly carried, there have been *a couple *of teachers who dropped guns. *A couple* of police officers. *A few *open carries.* A few* with a license. Fortunately most of them just shoot themselves.


That's out of about *70 million* gun owners with close to *500 million* guns.

I get that you don't like anyone with guns (no matter how much you say you do), but let's keep it in perspective


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I see more carnage consistently on a daily basis with another licensed weapon - the automobile.
Everyday, all sizes, under all conditions, there a few irresponsible ones that claim lives and severely injure. At the very least, they use their vehicles to intentionally put others at risk.
I did say intentionally and I meant it. One was behind me on the way to work, and one in front of me on the way home.

But the point is, I get in my truck almost everyday and somehow manage to survive without killing or being killed and I like to think the primary reason is, I own one too and know how to use it and don't hesitate or become stifled with fear.
But I treat that 4 wheel weapon in the exact same way, following the common sense rules I've learned of offensive and defensive driving.

I'm not going to stop all the idiots from driving and I'm never going to be able to ban the vehicles from the road, allowing only trained gov't drivers. But I will survive and use that tool to the best of my abilities.

Think about it.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

farmgal said:


> I fear people brainwashed from infant to hate anyone who don't believe their views. Who are encouraged to destroy infidels. I fear them carrying guns.
> 
> Worse yet, I fear our liberal, sorry excuse for a leader, taking away a freedom that was fought for, millions of lives given, so that we may have this right to carry protection. Destroying our constitution. I fear all the close minded citizens backing this ridiculousness.


What freedom has Obama taken away? Please explain. 

It's absolutely ridiculous to think that anyone is going to ban guns. It will never happen. There might be more regulation on magazine size, but owning guns will *never* be banned in the US.


----------



## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

farmrbrown said:


> I see more carnage consistently on a daily basis with another licensed weapon - the automobile.
> Everyday, all sizes, under all conditions, there a few irresponsible ones that claim lives and severely injure. At the very least, they use their vehicles to intentionally put others at risk.
> I did say intentionally and I meant it. One was behind me on the way to work, and one in front of me on the way home.
> 
> ...


But it isn't the same at all.
To drive you need a test, license and insurance to get behind the wheel, and those that neglect to do so get pulled over and charged. And they stand out like a spore thumb- hard to hide a car you're driving.


----------



## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

And there's no well funded lobby promoting driving without any rules.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> What freedom has Obama taken away? Please explain.
> 
> It's absolutely ridiculous to think that anyone is going to ban guns. It will never happen. There might be more regulation on magazine size, but owning guns will *never* be banned in the US.


It doesn't stop them from trying, and at best they are happy to infringe our rights.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

fireweed farm said:


> But it isn't the same at all.
> To drive you need a test, license and insurance to get behind the wheel, and those that neglect to do so get pulled over and charged. And they stand out like a spore thumb- hard to hide a car you're driving.


Driving is not a Constitutional right, it's a privilege....huge difference


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Originally Posted by fireweed farm View Post
> But it isn't the same at all.
> To drive you need a test, license and insurance to get behind the wheel, and *those that neglect to do so get pulled over and charged.* And they stand out like a spore thumb- hard to hide a car you're driving.


Those who break laws with guns are also charged with their crimes.

No one suggests banning the cars to solve the problems created by a tiny minority of the users

Does anyone *seriously* believe one more law would stop someone from killing others?


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Here is some patriots.



> May 2, 1967 openly armed members of the Black Panther Party marched on the California State capitol[41] in opposition to the then-proposed Mulford Act prohibiting the public carrying of loaded firearms. After the march in the state capitol building, the law was quickly enacted


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_carry_in_the_United_States


For those that want to dis the BPP, they started their movement out of necessity.



> At its inception in October 1966, the Black Panther Party's core practice was its armed citizens' patrols to monitor the behavior of police officers and challenge police brutality in Oakland, California





> The initial tactic of the party utilized contemporary open-carry gun laws to protect Party members when policing the police. This act was done in order to record incidents of police brutality by distantly following police cars around neighborhoods.[38]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

fireweed farm said:


> But it isn't the same at all.
> To drive you need a test, license and insurance to get behind the wheel, and those that neglect to do so get pulled over and charged. And they stand out like a spore thumb- hard to hide a car you're driving.


_Not at all?_

Large number owned and large numbers of deaths - cars far greater. Both a great help or a great harm depending on how it's used. No ban on stupid people having one. No chance of impounding all of them.
And as far as being obvious, the OP's scenario of walking down the street with a rifle on your shoulder would receive a LOT of attention from the passing cars.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> Here is some patriots.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And you support the voter intimidation, calls for killing cracker babies?


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Except of course when these idiots accidentally fire one off.


Every time you take your car onto a public road you stand a better chance of being killed or injured than by being accidentally shot. I'd be willing to bet you have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do being accidentally shot in public by a firearm in the hands of a citizen. When you add cops into the mix I might hesitate a bit before betting.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> What freedom has Obama taken away? Please explain.
> 
> It's absolutely ridiculous to think that anyone is going to ban guns. It will never happen. There might be more regulation on magazine size, but owning guns will *never* be banned in the US.


What if similar regs were applied to voting or publishing or speaking in public?

A right delayed is a right denied. Ever heard that?


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

fireweed farm said:


> And there's no well funded lobby promoting driving without any rules.


Let's treat firearms like cars. Anyone of any age can buy a car all you need is money. You can freely buy a car in any state you wish. Anyone of any age can drive a car. You can build your own car. You can have a car that will do 200 mph. You can buy a stock car and alter it any way you wish.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

plowjockey said:


> Here is some patriots.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you read the history of gun control in America you will find that the vast majority of it was put into place to prevent certain groups from being able to resist. Back in the day Southern states passed laws which were written in just a way to make sure that blacks were unarmed. Kinda hard to castrate a black man if he has a Colt under his shirt.

A lot of people believe one of the most infamous laws, NYC's Sullivan law, was enacted to make sure Italian and Irish were not armed.

Oh, and one small aside, history shows that after the law went into effect the murder rate. . . .increased.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's out of about *70 million* gun owners with close to *500 million* guns.
> 
> I get that you don't like anyone with guns (no matter how much you say you do), but let's keep it in perspective


Just because I don't believe the same line of NRA bull you do and I am not an ammosexual does not mean I have any problem at all with intelligent trained people carrying guns in appropriate ways. Having a nuanced opinion is a sign that I am not so obsessed guns I can't see reality smacking me in the face. 

You won't admit anything bad because you have left the realm of the rational. That does your argument no good at all. If you want to convince moderates and liberals that guns are not all evil you have to show them you can admit that guns and gun owners are not perfect. You don't help your cause you hinder it.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> _Not at all?_
> 
> Large number owned and large numbers of deaths - cars far greater. Both a great help or a great harm depending on how it's used. No ban on stupid people having one. No chance of impounding all of them.
> And as far as being obvious, the OP's scenario of walking down the street with a rifle on your shoulder would receive a LOT of attention from the passing cars.



You really can't compare cars to guns. First for all the reasons Fireweed mentioned. Second most of the guns in American are not trotted out on a daily basis. Do you know why the stats are so positive for concealed carriers? Because there has always been a fairly tiny number of them and by and large they were people who loved guns. Not people who were obsessed or people hopped up on some political fad thing. People who genuinely loved guns. Most of the people I have known over the years who CC were military or law enforcement or came from families that were. They enjoyed their guns, spent a lot of time at the range shooting and I never had any concerns at all about them. I honestly did feel safer know those people were out there with guns.

Today that is no longer the case. It's become a fad. There are signs up everywhere for CC classes. Tons of complete morons trotting around with guns, posting stupid videos and pictures on the internet. I don't know why it's so difficult for y'all to get but there are a ton of stupid people in America. These days we have people who didn't grow up with guns, know nothing about them and just think they are cool who want to trot around in public with one. That is not a good thing.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

basketti said:


> I'm curious what you all think the reaction would be in different parts of the country, if a group of Muslims dressed in traditional clothing...robes, headscarves etc. exercised their second amendment rights and open carried with guns slung over their backs and started frequenting Starbucks, Target, etc.
> 
> 
> I will admit to being pretty uncomfortable with it. But I'm uncomfortable with most civilians walking around with guns on their backs unless they're hunting and in the woods.


Imagine Skin Heads w/ a gun slung over their back.
A pack of 'goth' kids wearing full length black trench coats in July.
KKK guys
Gang bangers in all their colors......
Hells Angels

Heck, a pack of NUNS w/ guns slung over their backs would make me uneasy......


----------



## TraderBob (Oct 21, 2010)

HDRider said:


> some open carry black/white video


There is a reason for stereotyping...
Tell me again, who commits most of the violent gun crimes?


----------



## TraderBob (Oct 21, 2010)

I don't have a problem with any citizen open carrying whatever they want. It doesn't bother me. That said, I would prefer the individual would carry a sidearm vs a long arm. 

I come from an open carry state where we used to walk across town with rifles slung over our shoulders to shoot in the field outside our small town. Nobody blinked.

I never though, carried one just because I could without a purpose...I did however open carry a discrete handgun. That's me...I would never try to infringe on your ability to carry what you want, regardless of my own actions and beliefs.

Edit: Kansas gov just signed no permit concealed carry! Takes effect July 1st. Score another one for the good guys, although I don't believe it needs to be a law...2nd Amendment covers it as far as i am concerned.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Imagine Skin Heads w/ a gun slung over their back.
> A pack of 'goth' kids wearing full length black trench coats in July.
> KKK guys
> Gang bangers in all their colors......
> ...


Points to ponder. . .

The good thing about freedom is you can do what you like. 

The problem with freedom is others can do things you don't like.

If you give the government power to stop someone from doing what you don't like you also give it the power to stop you from doing something you do like. 

Just because someone CAN abuse something is no reason to prevent everyone from having access or using it. 

Criminals and even nut cases do not want their victims to know they are armed.

Nut cases and criminals are not going to stop carrying weapons nor killing people just because its against the law.

The police have no duty to nor are they legally bound to protect you.

The largest mass murder in the US did not involve a firearm.

In almost every case the only real defense from a bad guy with a firearm is a good guy with a firearm.

If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim. -- Jeff Cooper


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Just because I don't believe the same line of NRA bull you do and I am not an ammosexual does not mean I have any problem at all with intelligent trained people carrying guns in appropriate ways. Having a nuanced opinion is a sign that I am not so obsessed guns I can't see reality smacking me in the face.
> 
> *You won't admit anything bad because you have left the realm of the rational.*
> 
> That does your argument no good at all. If you want to convince moderates and liberals that guns are not all evil you have to show them you can admit that guns and gun owners are not perfect. You don't help your cause you hinder it.


LOL
Reality is shootings have gone down since the 90's even though there are millions more guns.

That doesn't hurt my arguments at all, and it has nothing to do with the NRA.
It's just the simple truth. 

It's the anti-gun contingency relying on misinformation:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/2...o-show-phony-increase-in-mass-shootings-says/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mass-shooting-fbi-statistics-column/73199052/


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Originally Posted by fireweed farm View Post
> And there's no well funded lobby promoting driving without any rules.


What lobby is promoting shooting people, rules or not?

I think you're getting caught up in the urge to argue and aren't really thinking things through


----------



## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> What lobby is promoting shooting people, rules or not?
> 
> I think you're getting caught up in the urge to argue and aren't really thinking things through



I never said the lobby promotes crime. But they sure do fight plenty to keep guns in the hands of nut bars that shouldn't have access to them. 
I own a couple guns so no I'm not at all anti gun.


----------



## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

tamarackreg said:


> We've been OCing here for a long time. Seems to be somethng the city folks have just discovered they can do and be just like the big boys - like driving pickups, lawn "tractors" etc.
> 
> All these fools are going to accomplish is getting laws passed that ruin it for the rest of us.
> 
> Go back to the golf course before you hurt yourself.


That's what happened in California has to be in a locked case if your in your driveway taking it out of the car it has to be locked in a case which makes it dam useless in less your a criminal then you can blast away a will till the police get there.


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

fireweed farm said:


> And there's no well funded lobby promoting driving without any rules.


:lookout:
Huh?
Let's get together next February in Daytona.
Damit man, ain't you ever heard of NASCAR?





watcher said:


> Let's treat firearms like cars. Anyone of any age can buy a car all you need is money. You can freely buy a car in any state you wish. Anyone of any age can drive a car. You can build your own car. You can have a car that will do 200 mph. You can buy a stock car and alter it any way you wish.





Patchouli said:


> You really can't compare cars to guns.
> 
> 
> Yeah, but I did........
> ...


We DO get there are a ton of stupid people.
It might have been clearer if the Bill of Rights had used "stupid people" instead of "the people" when it was written, but stupid has been around since the dawn of time.
We can apologize for them, try to steer clear of them, even lock them up when they get TOO stupid, but here's what I'd like the gun control people to "get".

What other "stupid" people do, I will NOT allow to infringe on my rights.
You don't get to take away legitimate rights from some, because of illegitimate actions of others.

Period. End of story. Ain't gonna happen.
As long as I've got access to cold rolled steel, you'll NEVER take away the ability for me to have one. I've got two things in my favor.
I'm not stupid and I'm a machinist.
:whistlin:


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> LOL
> Reality is shootings have gone down since the 90's even though there are millions more guns.
> 
> That doesn't hurt my arguments at all, and it has nothing to do with the NRA.
> ...


Post of the day award.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

mustangglp said:


> That's what happened in California has to be in a locked case if your in your driveway taking it out of the car it has to be locked in a case which makes it dam useless in less your a criminal then you can blast away a will till the police get there.


Post of the day award.

Lets make another law & see if the terrorists abide.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Cornhusker said:


> And you support the voter intimidation, calls for killing cracker babies?


No, but what does that have to do with the subject of open carry?

Black gun owners should not allowed to carry guns in public? 

Breaking any law with a gun, is a completely different subject.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

watcher said:


> If you read the history of gun control in America you will find that the vast majority of it was put into place to prevent certain groups from being able to resist. Back in the day Southern states passed laws which were written in just a way to make sure that blacks were unarmed. Kinda hard to castrate a black man if he has a Colt under his shirt.
> 
> A lot of people believe one of the most infamous laws, NYC's Sullivan law, was enacted to make sure Italian and Irish were not armed.
> 
> Oh, and one small aside, history shows that after the law went into effect the murder rate. . . .increased.


I do know the history, I was just making a point that blacks that _were_ allowed to own guns, responsibly (at least then) openly carried to help reduce the Police abuse, that was prevalent in those time.

They could not get away with that, one iota today, even though the abuse still exists.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

fireweed farm said:


> *I never said the lobby promotes crime*. But they sure do fight plenty to keep guns in the hands of nut bars that shouldn't have access to them.
> I own a couple guns so no I'm not at all anti gun.


Then your analogy was pointless.

It's already illegal for "nut bars" to possess firearms.

If you are in favor of more regulation, you are "anti-gun" even if you have one yourself. 

It just makes you a hypocrite in addition.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> No, but what does that have to do with the subject of open carry?
> 
> Black gun owners should not allowed to carry guns in public?
> 
> Breaking any law with a gun, is a completely different subject.


You are the one who brought up the Black Panthers, not me.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

farmrbrown said:


> :lookout:
> Huh?
> Let's get together next February in Daytona.
> Damit man, ain't you ever heard of NASCAR?
> ...



I think there is some confusion here. There are a ton of things in life that I don't like. That does not mean I am advocating for those things to be made illegal. I don't like stupid people with guns. That does not mean I want an IQ law that sets a minimum requirement for people to own guns. I think a whole lot of people should not procreate. That does not mean I think they should all be sterilised. I would definitely chip in for free spay and neuter clinics for humans though.  

I have no interest in taking your guns away. I do have an interest in staying safe so if I see a young idiot like this in my Starbucks I will leave. And then I will tell my Starbucks manager that if he wants me to keep coming in for my daily Peppermint Mocha he needs to keep dudes like that out. And that's my right as a customer.  But I am not going to ask my city or state or federal government to take his gun away. Even though he is too stupid to have one.


----------



## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

watcher said:


> Points to ponder. . .
> 
> The good thing about freedom is you can do what you like.
> 
> ...


But if banning guns saves even one life isn't it worth it? After all, you justify taking away other rights and locking people away without due process because doing so might have saved lives.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

mmoetc said:


> But if banning guns saves even one life isn't it worth it? After all, you justify taking away other rights and locking people away without due process because doing so might have saved lives.


Banning cars would save more lives
Banning abortion would save more lives
Banning motorcycles would save more lives
Banning drugs would save more lives. (Is it working?)


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mmoetc said:


> But if *banning guns saves even one life isn't it worth it*? After all, you justify taking away other rights and locking people away without due process because doing so might have saved lives.


No. Saving one would cost countless.


----------



## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

mmoetc said:


> But if banning guns saves even one life isn't it worth it? After all, you justify taking away other rights and locking people away without due process because doing so might have saved lives.


I think we should Ban meth, heroin, cocaine first. Once that is outlawed and no more is available the crime should go down.


----------



## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

M5farm said:


> I think we should Ban meth, heroin, cocaine first. Once that is outlawed and no more is available the crime should go down.


 Its worked out real well so far....


----------



## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Carrying a semi-auto rifle into a coffee shop is about as appropriate as carrying a chainsaw into a coffee shop, or driving a riding mower through the front door.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

greg273 said:


> Carrying a semi-auto rifle into a coffee shop is about as appropriate as carrying a chainsaw into a coffee shop, or driving a riding mower through the front door.


Some people have a hard time with what is appropriate, or don't know how to make a statement.


----------



## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

greg273 said:


> Carrying a semi-auto rifle into a coffee shop is about as appropriate as carrying a chainsaw into a coffee shop, or driving a riding mower through the front door.


you should come down south, its not uncommon to see a gun, chainsaw and a lawnmower at our coffee shops. and you can get coffee the way coffee is supposed to be.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

M5farm said:


> you should come down south, its not uncommon to see a gun, chainsaw and a lawnmower at our coffee shops. and you can get coffee the way coffee is supposed to be.


Small town liqueur cycle.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Cornhusker said:


> You are the one who brought up the Black Panthers, not me.


I brought it up because they were the _perfect example_, of American citizens, using the 2nd amendment, to protect themselves against a government, they did not trust. Especially since for decades they were not even allowed to own guns.

That was supposedly what this thread is about.

You had to turn it racist, again, based on one incident that happened _43 years_ after they were founded.

Surprised, why they don't really care for "cracker babies"


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

greg273 said:


> Carrying a semi-auto rifle into a coffee shop is about as appropriate as carrying a chainsaw into a coffee shop, or driving a riding mower through the front door.



LOL.
You might get a kick riding around town with me then.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> I brought it up because they were the _perfect example_, of American citizens, using the 2nd amendment, to protect themselves against a government, they did not trust. Especially since for decades they were not even allowed to own guns.
> 
> That was supposedly what this thread is about.
> 
> ...


Because they are racist?
Stop making excuses for bad people


----------

