# Raw Milk vs. Pasteurized Milk



## Beckygoats (Oct 22, 2011)

Hello all, I have been doing my Goat research for about a year now and have recently acquired my very own goad herd (yippee!!) My question is if people drink raw goats milk successfully without illness. I have been researching the US pasteurization laws and am thinking that politics during the 1930's were more influential than research on the actual safety of the milk. At any rate I would prefer to drink our goat's milk raw, but would never forgive myself if I got my family, my precious 18 month old daughter or a future baby sick from raw milk. I am extremely clean when handling the milk and my herd appears healthy. Opinions?eep:


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## MullersLaneFarm (Jul 23, 2004)

Becky,
Did you nurse your daughter? If you did, what precautions did you take before you nursed? Did you wash your breast and nipple area every single time??

I nursed 3 children and I know I didn't!! There were times that I placed the child to my breast and off we go!

With milking a goat or cow, I HAVE taken special caution to clean the udder and teats individually with clean clothes. We milked by hand for about a year, and we made sure our hands and the stainless steel bucket were clean.

When we started milking our Jersey cow with a Surger belly milker, we made sure the udder, teats, our hands and the milker were clean.

We also checked for mastitus using the CMT (CA mastitus test). It may be an overkill, but we're talking about our children!!

Not once in our 7 years of milking did we encounter any sickness in our household because of raw milk.

You statistically have a higher chance of campholabacter (sp?) and listeria from store bought chicken than you do from properly processed raw milk.


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## Beckygoats (Oct 22, 2011)

Very good point about nursing! Yes I did breastfeed and heck no I didn't wash every time. Thank you for your response. I feel much more comfortable with the milk now. I'll just use common sense about the health of the goat and the handling of the milk and off we go!!!


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## BlackWillowFarm (Mar 24, 2008)

I know for us the first time we drank fresh milk, I thought I was taking my life in my hands. Because of all the information about milk and how it MUST be pasteurized to be safe, my brain was telling me DANGER, DANGER! I overruled my brain that day. 

That was 4 1/2 years ago. I never looked back. As long as you are milking healthy animals and your sanitation is excellent, you should be fine.

If your brain is like mine was, and you just can't feel comfortable feeding it to the rest of your family, why don't you be the only one drinking it for a week or two? If you're still alive, then they can join you in enjoying one of life's pleasures that has been taken away from most of us.

The first time always feels like a huge step. Once you take it, you'll wonder why you didn't do it years ago.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

We drink it raw here & have not had any problems. Being clean when milking & quickly cooling the milk is a huge factor. Years ago they most likely didn't clean the animal well & were not using stainless stell to milk in.


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## chewie (Jun 9, 2008)

my kids have grown up on raw milk, first cow from dairies i worked at, and for the last several years, goat since all the dairies around here closed up. have no reason not to, altho you are killing bad 'bugs' with heat treating, you're also killing good ones too. long as my goats are healthy, i operate in the cleanest manner possible and my kids aren't compromised health wise to begin with, raw is the best way to go!


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## eclipchic (Oct 24, 2010)

I'm assuming you are using a goat that comes from a reputable breeder and has been tested for CAE and is CL free....in other words a very healthy goat. You could have her tested for diseases that could be transmitted to humans, being as there are a few. We got our goat from a lady who's family drinks the milk raw, we felt it was safe but we only drink the milk that is less than 12 hours old and if I'm culturing into something else I pasteurize it first being as the process of culturing will culture both good and bad bacteria pretty easily


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

I've never got sick drinking milk from my goats raw.

However I have got sick a few times from drinking other peoples raw milk.

Most of us are in good health and even if we drink a few bugs we can fight it off.

The main thing I would be concerned with is kids or old people. 

As long as you keep a closed herd once everybody has drunk the milk a while if nothing new is introduced then you should be immune to anything that's in YOUR milk. 

What I would be conscious of is keeping the rodent population down (lepto, listeria) and cat (toxoplasmosis). Keep the bellies trimmed and the milk clean. Start with the adults drinking it and then if no problems allow the kids until you are sure you are safe.


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## Rustaholic (Dec 1, 2007)

All I drink is raw milk.
Now it is cows milk.
I had a milk goat for three years.
We had visitors come just as my sweet wife was making chocolate chip cookies. All we had in the house was goats milk.
I asked them if they would like goats milk or regular milk.
He said goats milk and she said regular milk.
She said she had drank goats milk before and it had a bad taste.
I poured two glasses of goats milk and handed one to each of them.
She would not taste his milk.
When she was done I asked her how her milk was.
She said it was good.
Then I told her that our regular milk IS goats milk.
The milk I drink now is from a Cow Share program.
I own 1/20 of Cindy
Homogenized milk from the store is deadly stuff!!!!!
That broken up fat loves to lodge in your arteries.
Real milk has large globs of fat that stays around to be digested for energy.


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## Cannon_Farms (Aug 28, 2008)

No one here has became ill either and I raised my daughter from 4 months on on raw milk, was I scared at first you bet, will our newest one get it once I have a goat freshen, you bet.

This is the thing with raw milk, yes you do get exposed to some pathogens but like those vaccines we "must" have we have to get a bit of some to gain immunity. Thats probably why one poster gets sick off some one elses milk is because they may have a different strain of something than she does. 
We limit exposure to a large degree and build immunity and personally Id rather have immunity than not to as much stuff as possible. Being in my 30s I dont mind getting a cold, sure it sucks but better to get it now than later in life.

There are risk but if I could find the link which I cant right now, more people are reported to become sick off of produce and city water than raw milk, and the bacteria that made those I think 7 people in total belonging to two different families was the same that was in the tap water. It was one of the ones from being exposed to fecal matter so keep it clean.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

I was nervous the first time, too. It helped me to research each of the major bugs/nasties that they warn you off about with raw milk. I went right down the list and checked them off one by one. In the end I pretty much found that the ones that could be present didn't scare me because we're around them all the time anyway with living on a farm. And the big ones that did -- like Brucellosis -- ended up not being a real problem in our area so weren't nearly as applicable as the powers that be would have probably liked me to believe.


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## mabeane (Jun 5, 2010)

I haven't gotten ill or died yet and I am almost 70. Goats milk has been part of my diet for 35 years. Our little herd gives the sweetest milk!


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## OJ Rallye (Aug 4, 2005)

The thing I never seen mentioned in the pasturization discussions is that it was a good thing...before and in the early days of refridgeration. We strain the milk and promptly chill it and keep it refrigerated. We keep everything as clean as we can....but I haven't sterilized the milkstand, the gates, the doorknobs etc.
I really like our raw goats milk.
I also eat many of our fruits and veggies w/o washing....especially the first of most veggies. They don't make it to the house! First spears of asparagus, first ear of sweet corn etc.


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## Coloneldad5 (Dec 6, 2011)

There is nothing as good as raw milk. I prefer it over the pasteurized milk that has had the flavor cooked out of it. 

I drank raw milk when I was a kid (healthiest time of my life) and have it now for my family. I believe that we are better off with raw versus cooked.


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## birdman1 (Oct 3, 2011)

My cow is healthy so her milk is healthy and extra healthy for me and mine .if your worried a vet can check a goat or cow out for you .I belive that you share antibodies ect. with your dairy animial by working and living in close contact to each other.the same with honey bees making honey from the pollen in your area you can benifet from useing it raw .I have not had a cold or flu sence getting my cow and bees .be careful what you feed your livestock as you are next in the food chain try not to worm or medicate while your milking I'v never had my cow sick or droupy she is a working contribitor to the homestead like the chickens who help feed a pig ,a beef and me we all seem extra healthy most all eat is produced at home .and there are not a lot of changes in livestock same cow for 4 years so there is not a lot of opertunity for bad germs or bacteria to move in


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## Mosherd1 (Nov 12, 2011)

I am totally new to the dairy end of things and am just curious at the moment. I have raised bees, rabbits, chickens for years but never a cow or goat. Few questions...If you can get sick by drinking milk from someone elses herd, how likely is it to get sick if you are drinking raw milk (either goat or cow) for the first time? Also, is there a taste difference between goat and cow milk? Thanks!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

If handled correctly, there is no taste difference. 

Hubby is immune supressed due to a kidney transplant. We drink raw goat milk. No problems.


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## Dusky Beauty (Jan 4, 2012)

I feel that the ONLY reasons to pasteurize are;
1. To cover for less than ideal conditions. --my clean milk parlor room isn't finished yet and I milk in the outdoors for the moment and sometimes dusty, so I pasteurize just to be thorough. It may not be as great as raw but I know its better than store bought. 

2.You believe your animal to be healthy but don't have the labs back to confirm a clean bill of health yet.

3. You know your animal has been exposed to a milkborn disease and pasteurization eliminates the risk.


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## peteyfoozer (Nov 23, 2012)

There are a LOT of benefits to raw milk you lose with pasteurization. Pasteurizing is a necessary evil for most large dairies because it's hard to keep things sanitary. You'd gag if you knew all the things that wind up in their tanks LOL Butter made with raw milk from grass fed cows has what is called the Wulzen factor that helps with joint stiffness and helps stave off arthritis (no, its not a cure) I have found the low levels of cortizone in raw milk help relieve my pain levels from RA which I had long before I started drinkin raw milk. I have heard kids raised on raw don't usually need orthodonture, but I cannot speak to that as I have no experience with it. Like everyone has said, if your animal is healthy and you keep things clean, its actually better for you. Try this. Leave a glass of raw out at room temperature for a week, and leave a glass of pasteurized milk out beside it. I think the results will help you make your decision. The raw milk clabbers and can be eaten as is, used to inoculate cheese, or used in various ways. The pasteurized rots...hope you don't have a strong gag reflex!


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## notbutanapron (Jun 30, 2011)

Husband lived on raw goats milk his whole childhood. He's healthy as anything. I only started drinking raw a couple years ago. My health has improved significantly.


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## Ellie Mae (Jan 18, 2011)

we drink our goats milk raw here, but unless I knew someone else's cleanliness habits while milking their herd, I would probably not want to drink it raw.

also,there is a difference imo, between nursing a child without cleansing the breast first and milking a goat who has laid out in the barnyard and possibly gotten assorted dirt, manure, etc on their udder, so our gals get their teats cleaned before milking. We also use a closed system so no hair, dirt or debri lands in the milk.

goats milk is delicious, but I recently had some raw cows milk from a friend, which was good also, but no where near as creamy, sweet and rich as our goats milk!


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

I milked a Jersey cow when my children were home. No one ever got sick from it. We raised calves and pigs on the excess milk, since that good unprocessed milk was too dangerous to sell, lol. 

Now read about A2A2 milk. It's my understanding that all goat's milk is A2A2, but it varies by breed of cow. I have a beautiful Guernsey heifer standing out in my lot right now. It's a terrible thing, but I don't trust our commercial food supply. So, back under the cow I will go. This time I will have the time to make cheese as well as butter. 

I bought some raw milk cheeses from a grass-based Amish farm a few weeks ago. Talk about FLAVOR! I'm hoping cheese isn't too hard to make. 

Another example: I stopped at a KFC a while back and asked for a packet of honey for my biscuit. It isn't even honey anymore! It's some sort of "blended honey product," probably straight from China.


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

Raw goats milk for 40+ years. However....when we have company, I buy milk..........their systems are not used to raw and it sometimes takes awhile to get your body regulated....


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

with a healthy cow and buy hand milking and bouth the cow and your family living in the same enviroment the cow will produce healthy antibodies to protect you just as she would her calf through her milk ;pastureizeing the milk destroys the good things .as well as the bad keep your cow healthy andshe will heip keep you healthy .this is how its worked for me and I have no experience with goats


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## harvestmoonfarm (Nov 24, 2012)

Not only do we drink our milk raw, but one of my favorite morning drinks (eggnog) is made using raw milk AND raw eggs (from my own chickens, of course). I know my animals, I know they're healthy and I know where my food is coming from.

IMHO, raw is the only way we should be drinking our milk, but the government has used its scare tactics to make the majority of the population feel otherwise. If you haven't already, take some time to watch Farmageddon - we watched it last week, and it's appalling and scary what lengths our government will go to in order to tell us what we should and shouldn't put in our own bodies.

Sorry for the rant. Congrats on your new herd!


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Drinking milk raw is healthier IF:

1. You KNOW you animals are disease free. This means testing. They should ALL have three, CLEAN AND NEGATIVE tests for TB, Brucella, Johne's, CL, and CAE. Four of those five diseases are KNOWN to be transmittable, or have been transmitted, to humans. The last one has moved to jumping to other species, so it is just a matter of time before it jumps to humans. Before drinking raw milk, be CERTAIN of the health of your animals.

2. Your milking procedure is clean and sanitary.

As long as these two criteria are met, raw milk is healthier for you than pasteurized milk. Heat treating milk kills the good bacteria and ruins the enzymes that help digest it. Also, some *bad* bacteria is resistant to heat (CL and Johne's being two of them), so it is far better to have tested, clean animals than it is to pasteurize your milk.

If, however, you are not absolutely certain of the disease status of your animals, you should pasteurize your milk, especially if you are feeding it to children. Even though it is not completely effective with some bacteria. Consuming sick and injured bacteria is better than consuming thriving and healthy bacteria, after all.

All of my goats are tested and clean. I have consumed their milk raw for years now, as did my kids, and even my allergic-to-the-North-American-continent granddaughter. We have suffered no ill effects from raw milk, and have enjoyed many benefits from it.


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## harvestmoonfarm (Nov 24, 2012)

Virginia is brucellosis free, and most here also don't do TB or Johne's testing. CL and CAE are not transmissible to humans via milk consumption UNLESS the doe has an open, running CL abscess on her udder...


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Yep....and how do you tell if a doe has an open CL abscess IN (yes, a doe can have a CL abscess INSIDE her udder, invisible to human eyes, and have it burst, putting all that bacteria into her milk) her udder? Some of them can be quite small....

CL abscesses can and do occur anywhere in a goat's body that has a lymph node, and the mammary system has several lymph nodes. I have seen necroscopies of CL infected goats where there were half a dozen abscesses in the mammary system.

TB and Brucellosis free states are fine, although people should check the GOAT status on that. Cow, goat, and deer status on those diseases are different, and a state can claim to be Br. and TB free and what it actually means is that all of their commercial dairy cows are tested and Br. and TB free. It is always better to TEST, at least once, for these diseases, though. You may not know where the goat has been last month, and whether it has rubbed shoulders with goats from NON-Free states. The tests are not all that expensive for health knowedge and peace of mind, especially if children wll be drinking the milk.

Johne's is transmittable to humans through milk consumption AND animal handling; it is called Crohn's disease in humans. Johne's disease is underreported throughout the country in even commercial dairy herds, and information on it has been kept pretty hush in the industry. Crohn's disease is another nasty thing that one would not wish to feel responsible for inflicting upon one's child. M. avium ssp. paratuberculosis, the bacteria responsible for both Johne's Disease and Crohn's disease, is resistant (although not immune) to heat treatment.

I stand by my assertion that raw milk is healthier IF one has healthy, TESTED (as how can you be SURE one's goats are disease free UNLESS one tests?), disease-free goats.

If one does not have healthy, tested, disease free-goats, then raw milk is a risk. It certainly isn't *healthy* for your child to have Crohn's Disease, now is it?


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## Shayanna (Aug 1, 2012)

There is nothing out there that proves Johnes can cause Crohns, or that Crohns is contagious. And I haven't found anything that states Crohns is passed through breast milk, so why would it be concerning to drink milk from an animal not Johnes tested, as long as the animal is healthy? That is if, as you say, they are in fact the same disease.
http://www.mad-cow.org/00/paraTB.html
http://crohnstoday.com/the-impact-of-crohns-on-pregnancy/


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## Shayanna (Aug 1, 2012)

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/cae.htm
http://www.health.ny.gov/diseases/communicable/brucellosis/fact_sheet.htm


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Lots of folks drink raw milk without promlems. Once in awhile, people get sick, sometimes seriously. Healthy goats and cows can carry milk-borne diseases. 
This is a hot button topic with a lot of emotion. Search related threads. Every month or so, I update a thread with the latest confermed illness from raw milk.
I worry most about listeria and campylobacter. Johnes is a concern, too, but not a raw vs pasteurized topic.


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