# I got the place



## FarmboyBill

Owner just called. Said she had lost my number. Said she had called my banker to get it. Said banker told her everything was hunky dory on her end.
Im going to give them a check for $500 escrow Which I get back upon signing bank note. Escrow will be cause for her to write me a contract between them and I so that I can start moving onto the place.
That will be in effect until Oct. Si9nce it usually takes 60 days for things to get squared away with the bank, ital. be round Jan 1st when 1st payment comes due.


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## Terri

:drum:Yay, BILL!!!!!!!!:goodjob::bouncy::drum::bouncy::goodjob:


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## tambo

Congratulations!! Now remind us what you bought. House and land? Land?


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## Shygal

Congratulations!


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## cindilu

Very exciting, now do we get to see pictures of what you just brought? Inquiring minds and all that ya know.


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## vicker

Woohoo! That's great, Bill. Congrats!


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## FarmboyBill

10 acres all cleared. Slight slope. State owned land E & N of place. farmstead sits at crossroads. no house. Barn round 10yrs old, 10ft high sidewalls, around 32 X 64. 3 run dog shed around 5 X 15 of which I don't know what ill do with , and a A frame roof shed around 10 X 20. Theres a 10ftsq deer stand on the property that is around 6ft above ground with a camera mounted to one of the legs. no fencing. no well. rural water, electric hookups, 3 hydrants. 1 catalpa tree for fishermen/women. overflow pond from a river around 1/4 mile from the place N. It floods around towards 1/2 way uphill towards the place, but not on the place. Area peremeters is LOUSY with THICH thornless locust trees.
That's about it folks.
Im selling all my chickens at the sale tomorrow, and going to try to buy 6/8 wheels for a trailer that a lady on here said I could have for the hauling. IF I can get the wheels reasonable, That go a long way towards getting the tires also. Ill try to see IF I can get near new tires off of craigslist


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## FarmboyBill

No pics till I go back up there to sign the contract tween owners and me next Fri.


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## elkhound

great news....proud for you.


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## Tommyice

Great news Bill!!!

Now does it have running hot and cold water and indoor plumbing? LOL


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## FarmboyBill

Nope. Ill be taking 3 bldgs. from here to there, a chicken house, 10 X 30, a storage shed 12 X 36, , and an out house 4 X 4 lol


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## nehimama

Tommyice said:


> Great news Bill!!!
> 
> Now does it have running hot and cold water and indoor plumbing? LOL


LOL! I was just gonna ask that!!

Congratulations, Bill!


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## FarmboyBill

WHY would 2 TWO of you ask if it had hot and cold running water WHEN I said that it had rural water, but NO/KNOW house????????????????????????????????????????????


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## Echoesechos

Congratulations. You've worked hard at this for awhile... Please do show pictures when you get a chance.


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## swamp man

FarmboyBill said:


> WHY would 2 TWO of you ask if it had hot and cold running water WHEN I said that it had rural water, but NO/KNOW house????????????????????????????????????????????


Rural water (like I'm on) can be piped through a thing called a "water heater", and it makes cold water be hot. 
They asked 'cuz chicks like hot baths and flushing toilets. Scoot a little closer to the front of the class, bro.
Congrats, Bill. I'm happy for ya'.


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## Guest

FarmboyBill said:


> WHY would 2 TWO of you ask if it had hot and cold running water WHEN I said that it had rural water, but NO/KNOW house????????????????????????????????????????????


I was wondering the same thing.. Some barns have plumbing ..

Wishing you a ton on happiness in your new place


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## billooo2

Congrats!!!!!!!


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## FarmboyBill

The placer is 22 miles from Coffeville Kans, 6 from Nowata, 8 from Talala where my DD lives. Im 9 from her. Im around 14 from X and around 30 from DS. I think 22 from Bartlesville


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## Ramblin Wreck

Best wishes at keeping the ball rolling.


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## cindilu

Very very exciting news. We want pictures of your new place. Sounds like a dream place to me.


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## nehimama

FarmboyBill said:


> WHY would 2 TWO of you ask if it had hot and cold running water WHEN I said that it had rural water, but NO/KNOW house????????????????????????????????????????????


Maybe because we were so excited & happy for you, we didn't read/think it all the way thru?


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## Tommyice

Sorry Bill, Swamp's right. Hot baths and flush toilets are the way to go. 

People have been known to build a house around the idea of a great bathroom


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## elkhound

Tommyice said:


> Sorry Bill, Swamp's right. Hot baths and flush toilets are the way to go.
> 
> People have been known to build a house around the idea of a great bathroom



as we get older all tile or concrete with a drain in center and a garden hose makes even more sense....roflmao


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## BetsyK in Mich

What great news!! You're going to be happy there I'm sure, and yes, get hot running water and a flush toilet. You'll want it in about 5 years.


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## Tommyice

elkhound said:


> as we get older all tile or concrete with a drain in center and a garden hose makes even more sense....roflmao


Speak for yourself--I've got new plumbing


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## Jaclynne

Bill - that first picture looks like you nearly mossed over waiting to hear from the sellers! Sure glad to hear the good news - we need pictures.

Are you planning to build a place in the barn or move a travel trailer in? Or is that what the storage building is for?


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## FarmboyBill

In my second posting I mentioned that I had looked t a trailer a lady had offered to give me. Ive looked at it, and it has good potential. Im going to the sale tomorrow to buy 6/8 wheels for it, then try to get good used tires for it, if trailer tires price is prohibitive new.
I agree with ya nick, but I gotta have a place to have running hot and cold water, along with toilette and shower.
When I go up next Fri to sign their contract, OR at least look at it, Ill take a bunch of concrete blocks up and leave them at the place. There old used blocks, not new ones. Many are filled with concrete. A few are concreted together to make 1 1/2 to 2 blocks. That way well have something to lever the trailer with if/when we get it there.


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## FarmboyBill

I asked this on HQ, Ill ask it here.
How many buckets of mop should it take for a 12 X 60 roof? 
Should I want to mop it once and let it dry, and then hit it again?
Ill want to get it mopped and repainted as soon as possible after getting it moved.


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## COSunflower

CONGRATULATIONS FFB!!!!! Keep looking at Craig's list and also Freecycle. Sometimes here people will give away mobile homes just for moving them off the property!!!


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## frogmammy

*BIGGEST* congrats Bill!


I'd do the roof twice, for sure. If you're using Kool-seal, it ought to say on the bucket how much coverage you get...think you've got 780 square foot there on that roof.

Couple things to consider, you might want to have a concrete pad for the trailer. That pad could be as little as 2 strips of concrete 18 inches wide and 10 foot long that you put those concrete blocks on, and the trailer on top of that. This will help keep the trailer from warping....bare ground has give and take...you don't want to drop an egg in the kitchen and have to race back to the bedroom to catch it.

Also, consider building a roof over the trailer. It will cut down on future work you have to do to the roof (and inside if it leaks) AND help conserve heat/cool in the trailer. Heck, extend the roof out a bit in the front (or back) and have yourself a nice dry covered porch area.

Mon


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## FarmboyBill

I agree, and generally theres a reason. The one the lady on here is giving me is in pretty good shape. Doors shut, windows all in it. most all the floors solid.


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## Echoesechos

Frog, they call those snow roof here and they do help the trailers. A lot of folks make decks under them or enclose them in winter so they can store stuff out there. Lots of potential.


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## Twp.Tom

Glad for You Bill,Best Wishes getting it set up,the way you want it.


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## FarmboyBill

I thought of the roof already FM In other posts. I said Id like it to run out in front by around 20ft, and the same in back. I would build 2 rooms in back 10ft wide. one for the wash machine, one for the cream separator. In that one I would build shelves for whatever need there might be. Id put a small wood stove in the room with the separator, as there would be more room for it. When I washed, in the winter, id start a fire in the morning, go out and do morning chores, come back, have breakfast, and by the time I got ready to wash, the room ought to be tolerable warm. Of course, that would be one day at least id separate also.

We were thinking We would bring a tractor down to hook onto the trailer and bring it onto the county road. Wouldn't want the road tractor to get stuck trying to pull it out. My tractor might then be useless to extract him.
I was hoping to get to use my Neices husbands big trailer, but I heard tonight that they are breaking up. Money. Like most women, she likes to spend it.


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## FarmboyBill

QUESTION. Is the emptying of the septic tank USUALLY the obligation of the seller??????????????????????????


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## Vickie44

Bill I am really happy for you ! May this be the beginning of many good things.


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## d'vash

FarmboyBill said:


> QUESTION. Is the emptying of the septic tank USUALLY the obligation of the seller??????????????????????????


If it's for sale 'as-is' then no, the owners don't need to include anything at all. If it is not an 'as-is' sale, then usually the owners should be pumping the septic prior to closing. However, if this is not listed as a condition or inclusion on the bill of sale then the owners don't have to. While in some states, to my knowledge, pumping out the septic and a water sample prior to closing are mandatory. Did that make any sense at all?

... But if I read correctly, I thought you don't have a septic system on your land? Or are you talking about the trailer holding tank?


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## swamp man

Have you gotten quotes from a trailer moving company? It may save you a grip of trouble, they'll get everything slick with a water level, strap it down, and skirt it. The tie-down is real important for safety, bud.
Definitely, coat the roof right away cuz leaks will almost definitely develop during transport. I would tar around any penetrations on the roof (fartsnatcher vents, oven vent, etc), then cool seal or alum-kote over it all. If it's a single wide, you should be able to coat it with a coarse roller on a stick. Don't walk on that roof any more than you can avoid. 

I don't understand your question about the septic. Are you having to pump out a tank where you are now, or is there a tank at the new place that needs to be undookied?


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## frogmammy

I'm with you, Swampy! Hiring a company that does this sort of thing ALL the time would save a lot of sweat and tears and be a LOT faster. Probably better job too, from the experts....of course, THAT'S not written in stone...

Mon


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## shanzone2001

Yeah! Congratulations to you!!! =)


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## Dutchie

Great news, Bill.

One word of advise. Do NOT make any improvements to the place until you close on the sale.


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## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> Owner just called. Said she had lost my number. Said she had called my banker to get it. Said banker told her everything was hunky dory on her end.
> Im going to give them a check for $500 escrow Which I get back upon signing bank note. Escrow will be cause for her to write me a contract between them and I so that I can start moving onto the place.
> That will be in effect until Oct. Si9nce it usually takes 60 days for things to get squared away with the bank, ital. be round Jan 1st when 1st payment comes due.


This is confusing, so are you going to be renting the place until the actual bank closing, which you think will be sometime in October? 

I am happy for you, but something seems odd, and I for one would not start moving stuff to the property or making any changes until I was officially closed with the bank. Anything can happen, the appraisers inspection could go south and the bank will decide not to loan, and there you sit on land you don't own with no where to go!


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## SimplerTimez

Woohoo! Congratulations  Every time one of you on here makes it happen on their own, it shores up my hopes as well.

May you find contentment, good health and many full years there FBB.

~ST

p.s. Thumbs up on photos of the progress, love that stuff!


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## FarmboyBill

Neighbors got an old junky car hauler he ll sell for $200. IF I think its work a dang, Ill get it, and take the day to fill them both, it and my 10 X 20 flatbed, and when my boy and SIL get off work, they could come out here and haul them to the place and we unload them, and bring them back home for the next days loading. I ought to get a buncha stuff hauled in a week that way.
When everythings moved, and on their recommendation to sell it, Id take it out to the sale I go to and get rid of it. Besides the stuff in the house, and machinery, I have several loads of lumber to haul. 4 loads of misc to haul, that I can likely haul myself, like 2 rolls hog fence, 15 RR ties, 2 doz cattle and hog guards, a plastic driveway pipe, rock (to makle a wall around my well pipe when I drill it). 50 concrete blocks, 100 tomato cages made out of reinforcement wire. ! spool reinforcement wire, barb wire with no barbs on it, egg nests, water pans, ect. Then I gotr my hand tools, and hardware. scrap iron to use for projects, ect, bolts washers, nuts, bottles of oil, WD 40, ect, Garden hand tools, and other long handled tools, ladders, the mill part of a windmill, 2 hand pumps, 5 hydrants, wheel barrels, garden tractors, push plows, tiller, ect.


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## COSunflower

Here it is the responsibility of the seller to pump the septic tank. I wouldn't move ANYTHING Bill until the sale closes because if any little thing goes wrong...you would have to haul it all BACK!....


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## FarmboyBill

Yeah, and I see that. BUT, IF I wait till alls said and done, It would be around the end of the year before I sold all my hay, and extra equipment, the house im living in, ect to have the $10Gs to make the down payment. So, now im moving in in Janurary. Lots of fun that. I couldn't make payments on both places then, and I wouldn't have a place to park my cold but at signing time. No wood cut, or anything else.


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## COSunflower

So will you be RENTING the house till then? Whatever you do, get something in writing. People aren't as nice as we think sometimes.


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## Echoesechos

I agree Kim. Get something in writing. Because if it falls through then you will be moving in January anyhoo but you probably won't have anywhere to go back to. Don't let your excitment get ahead of you although I'm sure that is hard to stop. Protect yourself Bill.


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## FarmboyBill

Cos, not sure what you mean, (will you be renting the house till then)? IF your talking about the place im getting?? Well, it has no house. IF your talking about here, ill keep making payments till I move.
IF you mean will I be renting the PLACE till I move there? than no, Ill be putting up $500 escrow for them to hold the place until OCT when I get the contract to buy the place. Assuming it takes around 60 days to complete the transaction, Ill be at around the first of the year before it is finalized, and I start making payments. 
The contract I get this Fri, I will let my kids see it, and I will let my nieice see it who has worked for Tulsas biggest abstract title firm for 20yr see it.


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## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> Cos, not sure what you mean, (will you be renting the house till then)? IF your talking about the place im getting?? Well, it has no house. IF your talking about here, ill keep making payments till I move.
> IF you mean will I be renting the PLACE till I move there? than no, Ill be putting up $500 escrow for them to hold the place until OCT when I get the contract to buy the place. Assuming it takes around 60 days to complete the transaction, Ill be at around the first of the year before it is finalized, and I start making payments.
> The contract I get this Fri, I will let my kids see it, and I will let my nieice see it who has worked for Tulsas biggest abstract title firm for 20yr see it.


Well then will you be renting the land, until you close on it with the bank you don't own it, and you seem to be telling us that the owner is going to let you (with nothing more than the Earnest Payment or as you are calling Escrow) they are going to let you move onto and live on a property that you won't close on until sometime in October and pay nothing with the bank in January??

What you are signing on Friday is a "offer and contract to purchase", once they sign it, agreeing to your purchase price, then it goes to your bank, the bank will send out an appraiser to make sure the land is worth what they are loaning you and if it is, then they will schedule and you will have what is called a "CLOSING", where you and the seller meet with the bankers, lawyers, realtor, etc. and the property is officially sold to YOU once YOU pay any down payment and the closing costs!

My house here outside Aurora, CO, once the offer to purchase was signed by both parties, it was only 28 days until we had the closing, once that happened, they moved out and I moved in.


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## Terri

Brighton said:


> My house here outside Aurora, CO, once the offer to purchase was signed by both parties, it was only 28 days until we had the closing, once that happened, they moved out and I moved in.


The house I live in now took 3 months to close because both the buyers (us) and the sellers agreed it would take 3 months. It was to both of our benefit and so it was written into the contract. 

Always read through the contract! If you cannot handle reading the legal terms and stuff then take home a copy BEFORE you sign it and run it by somebody who can read it and understand it: perhaps your niece? 

My sister got burned because she did not read and understand the fine print of the contract!


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## Brighton

Terri said:


> The house I live in now took 3 months to close because both the buyers (us) and the sellers agreed it would take 3 months. It was to both of our benefit and so it was written into the contract.
> 
> Always read through the contract! If you cannot handle reading the legal terms and stuff then take home a copy BEFORE you sign it and run it by somebody who can read it and understand it: perhaps your niece?
> 
> My sister got burned because she did not read and understand the fine print of the contract!


I had my own lawyer, along with my own realtor, and I know how to read a contract, but I wanted to make sure I was protected! I wanted to close as soon as the sellers could manage, but I never would have thought about starting to move, buildings, livestock, etc., to the property prior to closing without a written agreement that I could do that.

FBB seems to be taking the word of the seller that everything is hunky dorry and he can just start moving in whenever he wants, and without something written from the seller that he can do that he could end up with his asp hanging out in the wind and no place to live.


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## wyld thang

Awesome Bill!!!!!!


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## FarmboyBill

When the seller contacted my banker both to see what my banker had to say, and to find out my ph# as she had lost it, She told the banker that I had wanted to hold off officially signing the bank mortgage until the end of the year, BUT that I wanted to have the time, between then and now to get moved onto the property. The banker said that, since it generally took at the maximum AROUND 60 days to close a contract, that she and me make our agreement in writing now so that it suited us both, so that I could get started moving onto the property. THEN around OCT, come and make out the final contract with the bank so as to make the mortgage, secure the money, and pay off the owners, and start making to the bank, the monthly payments.


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## starjj

While I think it is wonderful that FBB FINALLY got a place. I would not be moving ANYTHING onto the land or doing ANY improvements until the closing took place. Blind faith is one thing but don't be too trusting. I was and got burned on a few things even after closing. If they don't spell it out BEWARE.


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## Guest

Bill.
I've bought and sold a lot of property over the years.. Never would I move so much as a teaspoon onto a property before the closing date! 
The seller could die..
The property could have a horrendous lien on it..
Space debris could fall out of the sky and make a big hole where the barn used to be..
Waaaay too many things could happen, and you'd be up the proverbial creek.

Why move this stuff now??
Sell what you're going to sell and move the rest after you actually own the property..


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## FarmboyBill

Although I would normally agree 100% with what you both say, Heres the deal

I want to make 10 000 to put down on the purchase price of the place, $50 000.
I cant do that now. I wont be able to do that until I sell my hay, and some machinery. $10 000 will lower my payments $40+ a month, $500+ a year.
Ive got 2 cuttings of hay to make yet. Hay wont be worth its most till as late in winter as possible. Im figuring the end of the year.
Im finding it takes time to sell the machinery
Ive got to get my house emptied, and taken apart so I can sell it/them.
Im moving further North. This may be a bad winter with the amount of rain were having. I need to have a winters worth of wood cut UP THERE to heat with.
It will take me a couple months to get everything moved up there with my boy and SIL working during the day. I can try to get 2 trailers loaded DURING the day, BUT neither they or I want me to drive there pickups/trucks, 1 ton. Also, It would take time at each unlolading to get them unloaded, and hauled back here for me to repeat loading. This is around 90+ miles one way.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, Alla this will take time, of which I am running out of, Both to get moved, to get a house situated onto the property, AND to get the wood cut for winter.


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## gaucli

COSunflower said:


> So will you be RENTING the house till then? Whatever you do, get something in writing. People aren't as nice as we think sometimes.


I lost 17 acres by not doing this and trusting people


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## FarmboyBill

Yep, I lost a 20 dealing with Neal Shelton in W Planes, or Willow Springs Mo this way.
Went down there from St Joe Mo. He showed us the place. We liked it. I quit my job, and got ready to move, and went down with the first load. Place was gone. O he had some others, and we were in a lurch, so he shuffled us off onto another property.
I will always think that he owned the first place, and it was his showpiece to show people who might be in the same way I put myself into.
Likely, if somebody had said they liked it and would take it that day, then a day or 2 later he would tell them that there was a lein on it and it couldn't be sold, BUTT, he had this other place. ect ect ect.


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## FarmboyBill

HEY ALL. is there anyway they can prove to me before/at the signing of this (lease/rent) paper Fri, that the place has no leins on it??
Can I find that info at the tax office?


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## starjj

Lord help us you come here get sound advice and ignore all the warnings. I only hope it works out for you BUT life loves to throw curve balls at you so beware.

As far as liens you should have checked this out already. I believe the courthouse can tell you if there is any on the property but believe me if you don't get title insurance (and I imagine you won't bother) you are running a huge huge risk. It may cost you but well worth it IMO I sure wouldn't be putting down money on a property I knew so little about.


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## FarmboyBill

As to ignoring all the advice, Ive been tossing around the advice to my DS and DD . They have BOTH bought places in OKLA.


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## FarmboyBill

I am giving them $500 check which they will hold until I sign the bank mortgage , at which time they will give it back. Before giving the $500 check to them, I will have the bank arrainge for non payment procedures should it get to the bank.


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## Brighton

Can't your niece, the one that works for the big title company check on any liens for you? Otherwise, that is something that is done during the banks appraisal of the property, if they find out their is a lien then you can get your earnest money back.


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## Laura

I remember a wonderful gentleman who was a member now departed, God rest his soul, who plunked his meager savings on his Dream Property. Those wonderfully sellers needed to hurry and be in another part of the country so were willing to take his much lower cash offer rather than take payments. No need to worry about a thing, everything's in order, here ya' go, bye.

Except the real owners eventually showed up and wanted to know why they had a squatter on their place. It was a tough beans situation for him.

Other members, some now departed too, got together and put an engine in his truck and helped him move. Those were some wonderful men.


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## COSunflower

I remember that!!!! He was an older man and a vet, if I remember right, and his HT name had "moo" in it???


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## frogmammy

Hey Bill, thought of what you could do with those dog runs. If they are (or could be) inside and outside runs, you could board dogs for people. That's if you like dogs at all. Make about $15-$17 a day.

Mon


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## FarmboyBill

Thanks. Like dogs. Don't have or want any. Yes there inside and outside runs. all concreted.
Yes My SIL can check those things. I will call up the owners tomorrow and get the address and give it to her.


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## Laura

COSunflower said:


> I remember that!!!! He was an older man and a vet, if I remember right, and his HT name had "moo" in it???


 Moopups, Mitch Hearn. Ol' Hoot, Darryl in Fla I think, and a couple of other men put an engine in and got him to Florida where it was warm.

HT was a much smaller community back then.


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## FarmboyBill

I remember muhpoops. Been a long while since I heard of that name.


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## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> Thanks. Like dogs. Don't have or want any. Yes there inside and outside runs. all concreted.
> Yes My SIL can check those things. I will call up the owners tomorrow and get the address and give it to her.


Who is writing the contract to purchase? The sellers, or a realtor? Call and the the physical address and the parcel number and then you should be able to contact the court house in that county and check for liens yourself.


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## FarmboyBill

I dont think this is a contract to purchase, per se. They are writing it. I will then take it to s where kids and SIL will meet to gander at it, bring up any ideas, rearrangements, ect. I will take it back to them Sat, signed or not.


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## Echoesechos

Is your loan thru the bank contingent upon property appraisal? If so, what happens if the property appraises out lower than asking price. Even if your bank says you qualify for x amount of money doesn't mean they will give you that. I would guess that your loan hangs on the final appraisal. You might talk about that with them Friday. You've gotten good advice and we all want the best for you. It's worrisome on your wanting to move before it's a 100%&#8230; l/we want the best for you.


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## FarmboyBill

The banker never said anything about the bank appraising the property, and I never asked. a question ill ask the banker lady this week when I go get my monthly receipts checked after I get my uncles handout.


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## goatlady

Bill, that $500 check you give will NOT be returned to you, it will be a CREDIT on your closing costs or counted as part of your downpayment, no matter what the seller says, the RE law says otherwise. And NO bank will lend money on any property without doing an appraisal which will be part of YOUR closing costs unless your purchase agreement states otherwise. YOu're still not listening to folks who know what they are talking about, guy. We do understand your time constraints, but in all fairness, you are taking a huge chance on losing not only the property, but anything you have moved onto said property before you actually own it or have a signed rental agreement on it for the time between now and the actual closing of the property and transfer of same to you. Good luck. Also the bank will order a title search which will show any liens of the property that are recorded. You will get a copy of that title search before the closing of the property. YOu need to go back to your bank and get a clear understanding of what documents will be issued and what YOUR costs will be. The bank will be making up the loan documents directly from your purchase agreement between you and the sellers so THAT is THE most important document and should include/cover all facets concerning the purchase and other arrangements you and the seller might want to agree on, but they MUST be on that agreement, signed, and dated to be valid. Handshake and verbal agreements do NOT count for diddly with the bank.


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## starjj

Just an example. I paid for title insurance and in the process it was found that a former owner still had their name on the title to the place. It wasn't even the person I bought it from. It had been sitting on the deed to the property for at least 2 years. The sellers paid her to sign off on it.


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## Shygal

Oh Bill Bill Bill..........

you don't have the money for a down payment, you are assuming you will get it from selling hay and equipment, except that maybe the hay and equipment doesnt sell for what you want.

You don't know if the property has any liens on it

You don't think the bank has to appraise it

You think you can move all your stuff onto the property before its yours

I see heartache and trouble coming.


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## Terri

I last bought property 10 years ago. These are the steps that I recall.

1. Offer and acceptance. Bill, it sounds like you have completed this step.

2. Earnest money. It sounds like this is a work in progress, and you are working on it. If things go through the earnest money is used towards the down payment. If the *seller* backs out you get this earnest money back: as a rule of thumb if you back out you might not. It depends on how things were written. The problem with asking the bank to not pay it is that the check for $500 is expected to be cashed *AFTER* the papers are signed and the sale is finished: it is part or all of your down payment. And, $500 is reasonable. We once paid that as earnest money for a house, the seller backed out, the realtor gave us back the check. Fair enough. If the seller had NOT backed out it would have been considered part of the down payment and cashed after the papers were signed.

3. Bank paperwork, which is what is paid for in CLOSING COSTS. You do not do this, the bank does everything, and the buyer usually pays for it. Closing costs are usually added to the cost of the land and it adds $10-$25? or so to the monthly payment. Some people pay the closing costs up front but many of us do not. I did not: instead I paid the extra $10 odd dollars a month when they added it to the cost of the land.

Every bank I respect will check that the seller actually has title to the land, and also they will check for liens. That is part of the "title search", and is part of the paperwork the bank does. They will also check to see if the land is worth what it is being sold for: from what you have said I do not think this will be a problem for you.
....................................................................................
We bought a smaller, less expensive parcel of land than you are, and I think the closing costs were under $2000. Spread over 15 years of payments it came to about $12 a month, which was good because my pickup was on its last legs and I wanted that money in case the old pickup died without notice.

Bill, take your time, do not rush and run that contract by somebody who understands it. Do that, and things should work out. 

Also, if you want to know if there are liens then you can call the county courthouse and the secretary can tell you who to talk to about that. And, if there ARE liens you might ask them to either pay them before the sale or drop the selling price: they will either say "yes" or "no".


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## Terri

FarmboyBill said:


> The banker never said anything about the bank appraising the property, and I never asked. a question ill ask the banker lady this week when I go get my monthly receipts checked after I get my uncles handout.


They will. 

A back is not supposed to loan $5,000,000 on a property that is worth $1,500, so they always send an appraiser out. It is included in the closing costs, which is added to the loan. It does not add very much to the monthly loan payment.


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## FarmboyBill

I got the address of the place from the owner this morning, and gave it to my DD to check for leins at the courthouse.


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## FarmboyBill

Then theres the chance that, IF I don't get ahold of it now, somehow/anyhow, that it might be sold out from under me, Like that hasn't happened 3 times now already.

But u guys keep talking. IF I don't get the 5 back, and its only good till Oct when I go for the final bank contract, and Aug the hottest month of the year, meaning that id only be able to really do anything in Sept, I might as well forgo the contract with the people and wait 2 mos.


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## Guest

Bill..
Your daughter, who works at a title company, ought to go over the buying/financing process with you.. Step by step..

I understand the "wanting" your own place and being closer to your family.. Arcticow and I would dearly love to have the same.. Yet, we have to wait until we have ALL our ducks in a row.. It's hard to wait.. But often that serves everyone best in the long run..


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## farmgal

FarmboyBill said:


> HEY ALL. is there anyway they can prove to me before/at the signing of this (lease/rent) paper Fri, that the place has no leins on it??
> Can I find that info at the tax office?


 
You do not have a lawyer ? A bank is going to give you 50,000$ and not have a lawyer overseeing all the searches, appraisals, septic/well testing tax escrows and repair request? I believe a lender will insist on a lawyer. 

In New york, to borrow $50,000 you need a good $6000 setting in a bank to prove you can pay for closing costs. This money couldnt be transferred either, unless it is contracted as a gift to you. Is it different there? 

I wouldnt count my chickens till they hatch. I'm happy for you and hope it all works out. There are just too many variables in the story still. Even tho, the owner says move a trailer up there, others have a stake at the investment and can pull the plug anywhere along the line. You should just stay at a relatives until it closes.


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## FarmboyBill

Lesley, Its my SIL that works at the ab co. She will hopefully be around at Xs with DD and DS and see about the validity about these peoples contract. Whether its good, or not, changes she thinks should be made, so that, If so, I can take it back to them Sat and see about making those changes.


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## FarmboyBill

Farmgal, I have 6 setting in the bank and hope to raise it to 10 by signing the final contract time.
The contract we have been talking about IS NOT the final purchase contract for the place.
The bank has NO interest in this contract, and it does not involve them.
The contract, the final contract, that DOES involve the bank will take place in Oct. (you should stay at relatives until it closes.). Heck, I could and likely stay here till it closes. Im wanting to get the trailer moved onto, and water and elect hooked up, so that, by the time it DOES close, I got somewhere to live through the winter time. I don't know what winters are like in NY, tho I got an idea. There bad here, and I think this winter will be worse.


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## Fowler

I have nothing to add to this thread .....but it does give me heartburn


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## Echoesechos

Have you looked at the assessed amount through the tax office for that tax lot? If so you might have a good idea about the appraisal amount.... You've had a lot laid on you here. Maybe write down the questions you want answers to and write down the answers while you are sitting there. Then you can reference back to them. I find that works for me when I get overwhelmed with "stuff" in my brain. Contacting your County Clerk will reap you answers about liens that have been placed on the property. My county they have to be filed with the county to be valid. If you have the tax lot info you can call and inquire. You can also find out the assessed value through your tax assessors office.


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## coolrunnin

I know it's none of my business, but looking back in these threads you just received a lump sum payment from a retirement plan I see. 

I am sorry but if you blew through all that you really need to seek some financial counseling, at least listen to Dave Ramsey or try to take his course thru your church.


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## FarmboyBill

Ill see about the assessed value.

Gee Flower, I didn't know anybody would care about how we were feeling.
I hauled 12 bales from the field with tractor and bale buggy. I didn't have any under pants on, and I sweat terrible. My jeans bottom got wet and my bouncing around on the seat has made my butt tender.


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## FarmboyBill

yep cr, I went through 1/2 of it. Actually I went through a 1/3 of it. Uncle sam took 7


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## frogmammy

FarmboyBill said:


> Ill see about the assessed value.
> 
> Gee Flower, I didn't know anybody would care about how we were feeling.
> I hauled 12 bales from the field with tractor and bale buggy. I didn't have any under pants on, and I sweat terrible. My jeans bottom got wet and my bouncing around on the seat has made my butt tender.


:tmi: :shocked:

Mon


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## starjj

Anyone got a LARGE container of brain bleach?


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## FarmboyBill

Yeah, I see how it is. Fowler, who likely, tho I aint checked, is a woman, and so she can talk about her weeping heart. ME, a guy, last time I checked, cant talk about my leeking butt. Dissiscriminal in tha nation, or however you smell that word lol


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## Shygal

So if you put the trailer on their land, set it up, etc. doesnt it become THEIR Trailer ??

And bill, the bank is loaning you money on LAND without a home on it. IF you set up a single wide trailer on there BEFORE you get the loan, the bank will now consider it land with a home on it, and you will NOT get a mortgage for a single wide trailer on land.


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## Fowler

FarmboyBill said:


> Yeah, I see how it is. Fowler, who likely, tho I aint checked, is a woman, and so she can talk about her weeping heart. ME, a guy, last time I checked, cant talk about my leeking butt. Dissiscriminal in tha nation, or however you smell that word lol


Bill I dont have a weeping heart and besides I'm not the who's been sitting in sweatie poo pants all day...shake n bake......LOL!!!


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## FarmboyBill

Not if it isn't tied down. This house here dosent belong to anybody but me cause it was never ied down.
As to your second, You may well have a good point there. Im calling the banker tomorrow to ask about the appraiser, I will ask about your statement also. Thanks.


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## Fowler

Hello shy, nice to see ya post. Missed your honesty.


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## FarmboyBill

flower, LOL lol


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## FarmboyBill

I heard of itchiekoo park, not itchiepoo pants lol


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## FarmboyBill

Glad to see u got an infernal bone lol


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## elkhound

why do i have the urge to use a water hose all of a sudden......lol


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## FarmboyBill

Don't know. Saturdays bath time round here


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## FarmboyBill

I just got the report from the Nowata Co assessor. The WHOLE 10 acres appraises, for tax purposes, at $1,216.00. Taxes are $116yr


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## Shygal

Bill, the taxes will change with a trailer on there but shouldnt be too bad.

And I might be the only one that knows the song itchykoo park lol


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## Johnny Dolittle

Shygal said:


> So if you put the trailer on their land, set it up, etc. doesnt it become THEIR Trailer ??
> 
> And bill, the bank is loaning you money on LAND without a home on it. IF you set up a single wide trailer on there BEFORE you get the loan, the bank will now consider it land with a home on it, and you will NOT get a mortgage for a single wide trailer on land.


Trailers have a title just like a car. Whoever holds the title owns the trailer


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## Brighton

Johnny Dolittle said:


> Trailers have a title just like a car. Whoever holds the title owns the trailer


Maybe in PA, but that is most certainly NOT true in every state! And are you thinking of a horse trailer, 5th wheel trailer or a Mobile HOME...or as we call it here Trailer House/Single Wide/etc., which is anchored/tied down to the ground and has permanent plumbing, wiring, septic, etc.


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## Terri

In general, if something is attached to the land then it is owned by the land owner. A house is part of the land: a vacation trailer is not.

Also, the tax assessment will very possibly change after the sale, because in many counties it is easy to take the sales price as the value of the land. That means I pay taxes of maybe $300 a year, while the previous owner (who owned the land like, forever) paid $60.


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## FarmboyBill

u are right Terri, on all counts

I had an ephaney today
Place is for $52. 10 acres. That's $5+ an acre. No land is worth that with no house on it.
Talked to DS. He said that I should go ahead with the deal Fri, so that they couldn't sell it between now and Oct, BUT Not put anything on it. Said I ought to get my SIL to go with me
SIL said she couldn't represent me in the closing, and represent me in the contract negotiations, even with this pre contract. She said to get it in writing
$500 down is contingent upon receiving the loan from the bank. Otherwise, it reverts back to me.
She said somebody she worked with had told her of a 10 W of my DD with double wide only on it for 62. Don't know what the payments would be like, with payments on this 52 being 4 a month.


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## Terri

FarmboyBill said:


> u are right Terri, on all counts
> 
> I had an ephaney today
> Place is for $52. 10 acres. That's $5+ an acre. No land is worth that with no house on it.


With modern day prices? It is ABSOLUTELY worth it! 

Don't burn your bridges with this property unless you find something better, because this land is worth it.


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## Guest

Depends upon where you are..
My part of MO land prices can be as low as $1200/acre to $3,000.. Farther North towards Saint Louis finds the $5,000/acre land.


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## FarmboyBill

Not burning my budgies. That's why im getting this preliminary contract this Fri. Thatl tie it up until Oct. I bought this place, 20 for 2 an acre. No bldgs., no water., no house. $40Gs. 
That place, 10 acres, $52, no house, but water


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## FarmboyBill

Its the same here Lesley. If it was near Bartlesville, Oologah, Collinsville it could reach that price maybe, BUT Nowatas a , like dead county. The town of Nowata is the county seat of Nowata county, but youd never know it. The town is SMALL.


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## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> u are right Terri, on all counts
> 
> I had an ephaney today
> Place is for $52. 10 acres. That's $5+ an acre. No land is worth that with no house on it.
> Talked to DS. He said that I should go ahead with the deal Fri, so that they couldn't sell it between now and Oct, BUT Not put anything on it. Said I ought to get my SIL to go with me
> SIL said she couldn't represent me in the closing, and represent me in the contract negotiations, even with this pre contract. She said to get it in writing
> $500 down is contingent upon receiving the loan from the bank. Otherwise, it reverts back to me.
> She said somebody she worked with had told her of a 10 W of my DD with double wide only on it for 62. Don't know what the payments would be like, with payments on this 52 being 4 a month.


..................I'm assuming that the taxes are for Ag purposes on all 10 acres , I'd return to tax authority and see what happens with a single wide in residence and a Homestead exemption to exempt a % of the assessed value on the trailer . In Tx , as an example........when you homestead the home is assigned 1 acre for special valuation ! Also , check into property tax valuations for 65 and older ! Again in Tx , when a body turns 65 they cannot sell your property at an auction even , IF you can't pay your property taxes . I believe this is still the case . , fordy


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## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> u are right Terri, on all counts
> 
> I had an ephaney today
> Talked to DS. He said that I should go ahead with the deal Fri, so that they couldn't sell it between now and Oct, BUT Not put anything on it.


That seems very disingenuous at the least!


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## FarmboyBill

Fordy I can get a double homestead exemption cause of my age. Ive had a single exemption ever since I moved here

Brightone, I can respond to yours, as your word has too many letters in it for a High School Grad lol


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## Terri

Brighton said:


> That seems very disingenuous at the least!


Actually, it is common and accepted. The $500 check will keep the property off of the market, and if Bill backs out he will lose the $500. If Bill buys the property the $500 goes towards the down payment.


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## Brighton

Terri said:


> Actually, it is common and accepted. The $500 check will keep the property off of the market, and if Bill backs out he will lose the $500. If Bill buys the property the $500 goes towards the down payment.


Maybe where you live, but not anywhere I have ever lived or owned property! You want property, buy it, don't give the sellers a check to hold for 2.5 months and then maybe back out on it because you found something you think is better, which FBB seems to already be looking for, while the whole time they are paying taxes and hoping to get the place sold.

FBB - disingenuous - giving a false appearance of simple frankness (meaning honesty) : calculating.


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## FarmboyBill

AH. Thank you. for the info. Never too old to learn. Yes the sellers I suppose by now want to sell. Its been on the market since at least spring of 12 when I first saw it, but wasn't interested as it didn't have a house . They've had it maybe near at least 1 1/2 yrs that I know about. waiting/wanting to sell it. I imagine they'll be tickled to wait 2 mos to hopefully get it sold.

I don't see much difference in what im doing than, If I go and get a contract to purchase the property. When they've givin the contract, don't they think they've sold it?? Of course not. The bank may say they wont go that high. It aint there fault. It aint the buyers fault, its the banks inner mechanisms that somewhere in their gastroid guts makes these decisions. The buyer likely may not be able to pony up the extra money, and the seller may not be financially able to come down. So, in the end, the owners are left holding the bag, or farm in this case lol. 

Lets go the other way. U say, (u want the property, buy it). Well, I don't have the money to buy it with now. Because of that, I could walk away and forget it instead of fighting to hold it until I get the money. Do you, after a yr and a 1/2 at least think that another buyer will majically arise to snatch it up in the next 2 mos? Well, if it were anybody other than me, id say no. Since its me that wants it, I wouldn't be supprised if a dozen people don't want it in the next 2 mos lol.


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## Guest

It doesn't work that way..
All that contract SHOULD state is that your $500 is a promise to buy theÃ®r property IF you are able to obtain a loan, blah blah blah..if in the meantime , someone comes along with cash , all you get is usually 48-72 hours to finish the deal..
It doesn't mean the sellers have to take it off the market ..

The exception to this is sellers who don't know what they're doing.


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## FarmboyBill

Sorry Lesley I never heard of a contract, once made, being able to be broken, . Same way with a lease agreement.
If you had a farm, and I had a lease on it for the year, and you were selling it, and somebody came along with the cash, I dont think you could tell me, (Well, ive sold it, U got from 48 to 72 hrs to get your crops off the place.)


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## Echoesechos

FarmboyBill said:


> I just got the report from the Nowata Co assessor. The WHOLE 10 acres appraises, for tax purposes, at $1,216.00. Taxes are $116yr


Appraised at that or is taxed at that value? What I'm reading you to say, is that the whole property is valued at the $1,216.00. Assessed value might be different than appraised for tax purposes. Hopefully you have your questions ready on Friday.


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## Guest

FarmboyBill said:


> Sorry Lesley I never heard of a contract, once made, being able to be broken, . Same way with a lease agreement.
> If you had a farm, and I had a lease on it for the year, and you were selling it, and somebody came along with the cash, I dont think you could tell me, (Well, ive sold it, U got from 48 to 72 hrs to get your crops off the place.)


Selling vs leasing is apples and oranges..
Every day people write contracts for buying property which are "contingent" upon their being able to get financing.. The contract, if accepted by the seller, locks in a price for the buyer WHILE everyone waits for the buyer to obtain financing.

These contracts do not stop the seller from showing the property.. If someone comes along who can offer cash now,then the seller's only obligation is to give the contingency buyer time to make good on his offer or get his escrow deposit back. That is why sellers have a time limit for obtaining financing and why these contracts normally specify how many days the buyer has to get financing IF another buyer comes along with cash in hand.
That is why it is always better to have someone who actually KNOWS real estate to look over a contract for you..


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## FarmboyBill

Sounds like you know from what you speak. Well, I guess, with them having had it so long already, and they NOT having a REA, or a for sale sign out front, that Ill just have to take my chances. IF it gets sold out from under me, well, im no virgin to that. lol.
Onliest person I know knowledgeable on REA Affairs is SIL. And she said she couldn't/wouldn't help me frame the contract AND do all the other stuff also.


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## Guest

Everyone wants you to have the land near your grown children with a solid trailer on it etc.
Nobody wants to see you get the short end of the stick .. Just don't assume anything, nor be in a hurry to sign a contract. 
Perhaps today might be the day to do a google search on" how to write your own land offer contract in Oklahoma" and see what pearls of wisdom are out there..

Better still.. Bite the bullet and spend the money to have a real estate attorney look over that contract ..


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## FarmboyBill

Just called the Nowata banks land appraiser. He said most land in the area of the place was going for around $2000 acre, with some going as high as $3000 an acre.

That's a LONG ways from there wanting $5000 an acre.


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## Terri

Bill, if the appraiser says it is worth less, then most people would offer what the appraiser says it is worth. They will either say yes or no.


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## FarmboyBill

I know that Terri. And, Im going to call them up in the morning and tell them of the appraisers report, and state that, since they likely wont lower there price to 30,000, AND since they wont take payments on the 52,000. I would suppose that there is no good reason for us to get together Fri night.

As an aside, They have not called me about my call asking whether they had ever had it appraised, and if so, what the appraisel was. Bet I know why.


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## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> I know that Terri. And, Im going to call them up in the morning and tell them of the appraisers report, and state that, since they likely wont lower there price to 30,000, AND since they wont take payments on the 52,000. I would suppose that there is no good reason for us to get together Fri night.
> 
> As an aside, They have not called me about my call asking whether they had ever had it appraised, and if so, what the appraisel was. Bet I know why.


Why would you expect them to take payments on the land, they are tying to sell it not rent it, so unless the offered you a land contract they just want to sell it! And that is NOT an appraisers "report" that is the opinion of an appraiser who has never even seen the property, granted it might get you some bargaining room, but other than that it doesn't mean much!


----------



## Terri

FarmboyBill said:


> I know that Terri. And, Im going to call them up in the morning and tell them of the appraisers report, and state that, since they likely wont lower there price to 30,000, AND since they wont take payments on the 52,000. I would suppose that there is no good reason for us to get together Fri night.
> 
> As an aside, They have not called me about my call asking whether they had ever had it appraised, and if so, what the appraisel was. Bet I know why.


*HAS* the appraiser made a formal written report, or has he just said about what the land in that area runs? This is IMPORTANT!

If you back out before the appraiser has set foot on the land and made a written appraisal, then you will possibly end up losing the $500 earnest money you gave them.

If the appraiser says in a WRITTEN report that the land is overpriced, then the bank will refuse to make a mortgage on that amount and you get the $500 back.At least that is how things are usually done!

If the sale falls through due to no fault of your own, you are free to offer them a lower amount, like what the appraiser says it is worth.

*IF* you have already given them a check for earnest money, then you need to wait for the appraisers report!


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## Shygal

Bill, dont give the 500 dollars until you have a written appraisers report in your hands. Maybe you should look into the doublewide on 10 acres that your daughter told you about, it would have water and septic and a home already there


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## FarmboyBill

I HAVE NOT GIVIN ANYONE $500 YET.
Where u gals at. I said I wouldn't be doing that till Fri even IF I did it at all.
Im going to call them in the morning. Tell them that I had talked to the appraiser in Nowata, and he said nO WAY was ground worth that, in a nicer way. Im going to suggest (AFTER I talk to my SIL to see if writing up a contract this way is even doable,) that I could make monthly payments to them for X yrs till I got the place paid down to $20 where I would get a bank loan, and pay it off.
Ill say, If that's not possible, I can see no reason for getting together Fri night, unless you may thnk of one.
[What] cha think??


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## FarmboyBill

AND, The problem with that idea is that the bank only loans $50+


----------



## Terri

farmboybill said:


> i have not givin anyone $500 yet.
> Where u gals at. I said i wouldn't be doing that till fri even if i did it at all.
> Im going to call them in the morning. Tell them that i had talked to the appraiser in nowata, and he said no way was ground worth that, in a nicer way. Im going to suggest (after i talk to my sil to see if writing up a contract this way is even doable,) that i could make monthly payments to them for x yrs till i got the place paid down to $20 where i would get a bank loan, and pay it off.
> Ill say, if that's not possible, i can see no reason for getting together fri night, unless you may thnk of one.
> [What] cha think??


whew!


----------



## starjj

I think you went off half (whatever) if you did not know what the land was worth to begin with. If they are selling the place then I certainly would be insulted to offer them to take payments. I also would be mighty p oded after you promsied to give them a check for $500.00 to not get it. Lesson learned DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST


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## FarmboyBill

Your totally right in your post JJ. But
#1 I NEVER offered to give them $500. They made that offer.
#2 I don't yet understand why I didn't realize that a 10 at 52 is going to be 5,200 an acre. Guess I was overjoyed that it was over 50 which would suit the bank. Didn't think that when I paid 10 that it would be 42 and the bank wouldn't cover that, AND that at 52, they wernt going to cover that either.

I guess im larnin. Ive thought of several dastardly delicious things id like to do to my worst enemas, But I don't have enemas so bad that I would wish that they had to find a place to live. lol.


----------



## Shrek

Bill,
If you like the place, can afford it and plan to live there more than 15 years or die there, what does it matter if you pay more than its worth?

Just make sure the title search comes up clean and there are no liens against it.

When I bought this place it was priced twice the going rate for both house and acreage but it was well within what I could afford, where I wanted to be and my then wife and I both agreed that we would be here at least 15 years, so I bought it.

The wife lasted only 5 years and I took the place and without having to support her I paid it off 9 years early and instead of spending time to pay off the original 15 year commitment I used my increased disposable income to buy adjoining tracts of timber to add to my privacy and my disposable income.

My house and property still cost me more than the "going rate" but I still have adequate income both required and disposable to cover expenses every week , fund my entertainment and add to my investment reserves while still enjoying the dream from 1996 seventeen years later.

BTW when you were discussing the water and said the location was 8 miles from the town of Nowata, I thought to myself that it was a good thing it wasn't closer to Nowata because even a deep well probably wouldn't work there and you would have to buy a tanker to truck your water in . :rotfl:

Go for it if you can afford it and its clear titled and enjoy yourself.


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## Shygal

Took me a minute to get the Nowata joke lol


----------



## FarmboyBill

As far as the price. They wanted 53. I never argued a dime outa that. Im sure I coulda got it down to $50, but thought id use the fact I never tried to argu them down if and when I needed a favor from them .

AS IT STANDS NOW.
I called them and told them what the appraiser said. She called back and said she didn't know where I had got that info from, that land was mostly work 2 with a FEW worth 3. She said that lots of places had went for 4 and more. She said the guy before me had had it appraised at 46 but couldn't get the money. She said if I wanted out to tell them and theyed just place it back on the market.
I told her the appraisers name and number. I said I didn't want out, but the appraisers report had caused me to think that I wouldn't get the loan and I was going by that. She kept on about it being worth in the 4s, so I said that id be at my bank on Oct with a contract. She asked me 3 times about making the contract this fri for 60 days. She thought that was to hold the ground until Oct when id have stuff sold and were selling. I had to tell her, no, that was so that I could be working on the place, mowing it, cutting wood on it, hauling certain stuff over there, which I didn't feel good about doing now.. Left with, see ya in Oct.


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## FarmboyBill

I guess theres wata in Nowata. They got 4in rain Wed nightr. Don't know how much they got Last night.


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## Terri

No wata. That's... BAD!:teehee:


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## frogmammy

Echoesechos said:


> Appraised at that or is taxed at that value? What I'm reading you to say, is that the whole property is valued at the $1,216.00. Assessed value might be different than appraised for tax purposes. Hopefully you have your questions ready on Friday.


Sounds like that's what it was valued at for TAXES. Valued at for TAXES (as far as I've seen) is lower than valued by the bank. When we bought this house, many moons ago, the TAX value was $11,000. The LOAN value was $40,000.

Apples and oranges.

Mon


----------



## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> AS IT STANDS NOW.
> I called them and told them what the appraiser said. She called back and said she didn't know where I had got that info from, that land was mostly work 2 with a FEW worth 3. She said that lots of places had went for 4 and more. She said the guy before me had had it appraised at 46 but couldn't get the money. She said if I wanted out to tell them and theyed just place it back on the market.
> I told her the appraisers name and number. I said I didn't want out, but the appraisers report had caused me to think that I wouldn't get the loan and I was going by that. She kept on about it being worth in the 4s, so I said that id be at my bank on Oct with a contract.


I am sure she is confused considering it was not an ACTUAL appraisal report just the opinion of an appraiser at the bank who has never even seen the land!!

I know you don't really know what you are doing FBB, but you are kinda jerking these people around!


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## starjj

Goes to show that FBB needs someone that has KNOWLEDGE of what they are doing. I am not talking sons daughters DIL's etc etc even though you think they have the know all. Just because someone has bought property, works for a bank, works for an appraiser, does not mean they are knowledgeable about each piece of property you are considering.

I agree with Brighton you seem to be jerking these people around. If it was me and you said see you in October I would be saying see ya never.

Do you expect these people to HOLD the property for you with no money down?

What the value is for taxes and what the value is to the bank as property are two different things.

Comes down to what I said before DO YOUR HOMEWORK before you go making offers.


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## jwal10

Bill, I have watched you and your property forays for a while. You are putting yourself in a bind here. You want out of where you are now and to be closer to family. You need to work with a reputable realtor. You are putting yourself in the same place you are right now, just a different area. Using a realtor costs you nothing unless you COULD find a good deal on a for sale by owner property. BUT not using one can cost you plenty. All this info you are running around trying to find out, taking good with the bad, would all be done for you.

I know what you want to do but remember your health and how hard it is for you to do what you are trying to get done now. Don't get yourself into something you can't finish and make it too hard to live with, as you get older. You are like my Dad was, you're want to is way more than your can do. Keep your special toys and play with them but on a smaller scale. You need a small acreage with a small stick built house that will gain value and a lot less upkeep. There is a small property out there with your name on it for the $50,000 you can get at the bank, all ready to go. It will be cheaper in the long run. Build equity, see how you do and dream big from a comfortable HOME....James


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## FarmboyBill

I told her that IF she could sell it between now and OCT to go head and do it. I understood
jwal I am sizing down. Im going from 20 to 10 acres.


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## Brighton

I completely agree with Jwal10! In five years will you be able to take care of the 10 acres the way it really should be taken care of and will your kids want to deal with it once you are gone?

Find a nice little house with about an acre, really get into growing a big garden that provides for you for 1/2 the year or more, maybe have a few chickens.

There is a delightful old man not far from me, he has 1/2 an acre on the edge of town, he calls it Hill's Tiny Twenty, and he grows the most amazing produce and is busy all year around, if not planting, weeding and harvesting, then planning for the next year.


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## Echoesechos

10 acres sounds wonderful but you need a house that's comfortable and will provide you some security and be ready to go when you move in to it. Not sure why 5 acres and a nice home wouldn't do. Unfortunately we all are getting older and JWAL brings up some great points. 

I can't even remember why you want so much acerage at this point. Do you raise beef or ???? Sorry but as you get older running water, indoor plumbing etc will become just that much harder to do without. I know people here locally that have to haul water weekly, and plow so much snow 7 months a year. They thought it was fine 10 years ago but now at 70+ it's not so much fun. They are afraid of what happens if they get injured and then can't take care of their property. They have 10 acres and don't do much of anything with it.. Just sayin....


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## jwal10

Bills equipment and heritage means a lot to him, I understand that. I am not saying smaller than 10 acres, more pushing a stick built home, even small is much better than moving an old mobile or sheds/shacks. It is the work to get it all up and going, he will miss the part that means so much to him. Also 10 acres won't make him any real money to keep going. Plow a big garden/patch. Plant a little and have fun using the toys, not overwork yourself. 

I know he has problems with his feet/legs. I am younger than he and it does not get better. Walking and getting up and started gets harder and harder.

Bill, take it easier and keep going for a lot longer. You deserve to have a little fun. Don't give up on your dreams, just take care of yourself. I have seen you change your goals a lot in the last 2 years. You can get there yet....James


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## Terri

Bill, have you considered getting a loan someplace other than a bank? I saw this mentioned the the Homesteading site, though I have not taken the time to read it over. http://www.fsa.usda.gov/FSA/webapp?area=home&subject=fmlp&topic=landing


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## FarmboyBill

I got there ph# and will call Mon. Ive been to 2 other gov agencys, Farm Credit, and another one. No go. One said acres was too few. Other said money was too little for the property.
Brighton. One reason for moving up there IS that ill have my son and SIL, and 3 boys/grandkids to help me with it. Yes, ital. be like pulling teeth, but someone will always help me at any givin time. I know God willing and nothing happens to me, that I can operate on my own for at least 5yrs, and likely 10. My family is long livers. My uncle milt last plowed when he was 83. did 5 acres out of 70 and quit. He had a 41 H. When im to old to do anything, Ive got 1 in 4 chances that one of the grandkids will want the place.
Echos I guess you missed the part where I said that this place has a septic, electric AND RUNNING WATER to the trailer site. Where a trailer once sat.. I don't raise beef cause I have no water sufficient here to do that, But I intend to do that come winter there. Buy 1/doz/1doz, around Jan 1st and run them out till grass comes on and sell them. I also want to run a doz baby calves at the same time. Long about april I want to get 100 chicks and raise them up till now and start selling them off 20 a month.
jwal, U say 10 acres wont make much money. I just took 34 big bales off of 12, and will likely do so again either at the end of this month if we keep getting rain, or in Sept for sure, Then again just before Frost in Nov Dec when Ill take it to the ground rather than cutting it 6in off. Say 50 bales of hay. To me, that's some money.


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## FarmboyBill

J you say to have fun. What is fun? I havnt had FUN in 20yrs. Getting suited up in armour and fighting till I was soaked through with sweat, beaten from stem to stern, heart neary ready to crash through my chest. That was fun. I cant do that anymore, and don't want to. To have fun, one has to know what fun is so as to pursue it. I don't. I like to go to A steam show ONCE A YEAR, and I like to go to an antique tractor show ONCE A YEAR. That's enough. Ive seen it all. I don't need a constant course of it. A refresher a couple times a year is fine.
Getting out on the tractor to do some meaningful work is the closest to fun I know. Its if not enjoyable, it gives satisfaction. When an old person can say they have satisfaction in their lives, I suppose that's as close to fun as they get.

WHERE have you seen my goals change in the last few years. I havnt seen them change in several years. The big garden idea is getting weaker and weaker, but who knows. Up there I may be able to get help with it. Show the GKs that they can make some real money selling a big garden. That would be fun for me. Teaching and watching, and expanding the city lives of them,


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## newfieannie

I forget how old Bill is but I know i'm older and i'm also from a long line of long lived people who worked hard to the end. this bit of land I have in the city is just not enough to keep me going. I've practically got every inch of it planted. I can't have any chickens here. (although I can't see any difference than having rabbits next door that are constantly escaping) so i'm getting back to my country place as fast as I can. I want a couple pigs, ducks, meat hens, goats etc. and large gardens to grow all my own veggies. I do hope you get a place that you're happy with Bill! ~Georgia.


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## frogmammy

newfieannie said:


> I forget how old Bill is but I know i'm older and i'm also from a long line of long lived people who worked hard to the end. this bit of land I have in the city is just not enough to keep me going. I've practically got every inch of it planted. I can't have any chickens here. (although I can't see any difference than having rabbits next door that are constantly escaping) so i'm getting back to my country place as fast as I can. I want a couple pigs, ducks, meat hens, goats etc. and large gardens to grow all my own veggies. I do hope you get a place that you're happy with Bill! ~Georgia.


Georgia, you just plain have more going for you than FBB does, and that's a fact!

Mon


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## fordy

................Well , If 'Old Bill' had a couple o' wimmins cookin and researchin his property choices he'd have more time to avail himself of the small print particulars of each property ! As it stands currently he can't even figure out how he's gonna move all his farmin stuff from his currrent Estate to the next . 
................When a feller has 6 tractors , 4 bailors , 3.5 swathors , 2.75 wind rowers , 2.5 outhouses , 10 sears catalogues , 2 wimmins , 4 pigs , 148 chickens , 3 dawgs , 4 ex wives , and a jackass that won't pull a cart , movin to a new Estate is a big deal ! , lol , fordy:hysterical:


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> I don't raise beef cause I have no water sufficient here to do that, But I intend to do that come winter there. Buy 1/doz/1doz, around Jan 1st and run them out till grass comes on and sell them. I also want to run a doz baby calves at the same time. Long about april I want to get 100 chicks and raise them up till now and start selling them off 20 a month.
> jwal, U say 10 acres wont make much money. I just took 34 big bales off of 12, and will likely do so again either at the end of this month if we keep getting rain, or in Sept for sure, Then again just before Frost in Nov Dec when Ill take it to the ground rather than cutting it 6in off. Say 50 bales of hay. To me, that's some money.



Bill.........you really think 10 acres is going to support 12 beef cattle and 12 calves???


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## FarmboyBill

LOL. Yeah, and that's with alla the stuff I already got rid of lol.

Ill be 66 Oct 8tth.


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## FarmboyBill

Ill get I don't know how much fodder off of 10 acre OP corn. Then ill have 10 acres of hay for one cutting.
Fodder is created by running bundles of corn, cut by a corn binder through a husker shredder, which shucks off the ear and deposits it into whatever, and shreds the stalk into 2 or 3in pieces. Cows wont eat a corn stalk, just the leaves. BUT with it shredded, they will. There is a higher protein content in OP corn than in hybred corn. making the stalks much more desirable to cows when augmented with sorgum sudan grass hay. The bu per acre are way less, but the tonnage of fodder is way higher. The corn will be for chickens, or pigs. With one cutting of hay, which I ought to get round 30 big bales, but I wont big bale it. With a barn I can square bale it. (Course, theres the possibility that when/if I want to, I can put big bales into the barn too. 30 bales should run a doz cows out from Jan to grass. IF Im running out of hay, Ill start selling off the cows a few at a time earlier.
The calves will be bottle calves, and ill only keep them till grass opens up. There just something to do to wile away the long winter days.
Everybody used to get there baby chicks in Feb/Mar in the old days. That would have helped keep me busy I guess, BUT the electric bills so high as to make it not have any profit. So, Ill wait to do that till early spring. possible sell out of the calves and cows, and buy into the chicks roundabout the same time.


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## Shygal

but you talked about selling the hay for money?


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## FarmboyBill

IM SELLING THE HAY H E R E FOR MONEY NOT the hay I WOULD raise THERE. I COULDNT get any cows THIS winter, and likely would bee way to busy fencing, cutting down trees for wood, building chicken houses, grainery/toolshed, whatever to fool with COWS THIS winter. Likely I could do the calves.


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## jwal10

Are you still wanting to build that big haymow barn? I know it depends on what is on the property you get. 10 acres minus the homestead and machinery yard does not leave a lot. You say 3 cuttings of hay where you are now. 1 corn crop for fodder and 1 cutting of hay up there AND pasture for a dozen cattle? When you are all done on that 10 acres, how much you plan you will have left. How much are 30 rounds worth after your expenses. I KNEW the fun part for you is getting out there on that old machinery, it was the same for me. Bout killed me when I HAD to give it up my H....James


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## littlejoe

Thought you had something contracted by the thread title, but doesn't sound like it after reading a little?

I realize a part of your search is to try and get closer to your kids. but what if they get job offers that take them farther?

I don't remember the particulars of the land deal you have now, just that it isn't feasible. Have you ever thought about approaching them with another offer? It can be your offer???? *Let your imagination be your guide, but be fair!* Guessing you've kept your payments up?

You're at home now. You need some improvements made. See the above. Make it work for you as well as them.


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## littlejoe

You have 20 acres of farmable land now, and that isn't too many acres for you to handle, regardless of the naysayers. You can do a lot with 20 if you have moisture enough! Make it work for you!!!! Don't just talk about it!


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> IM SELLING THE HAY H E R E FOR MONEY NOT the hay I WOULD raise THERE. I COULDNT get any cows THIS winter, and likely would bee way to busy fencing, cutting down trees for wood, building chicken houses, grainery/toolshed, whatever to fool with COWS THIS winter. Likely I could do the calves.



You don't have to Y E L L . I didn't yell at you, I asked a reasonable question. Sheesh.


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## Shygal

littlejoe said:


> Guessing you've kept your payments up?
> 
> .



You'd guess wrong


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## FarmboyBill

Sorry SG. I was just trying to emphasize certain points, that might get missed if the whole thing is in one set type. Sorry.

Joe, I don't know if im understanding you or not. No the payments are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY behind on the place I currently live on.

jwal. Don't know if I wanted to b uild a big haymow barn. Ive realized for awhile/years that steps are NOT my friends, and that's likely only to get worse. Its a shame cause the walls on this 32 X 64 barn are 10/12ft high. Just made for a loft.
Your absolutely right that id likely be only farming 7 acres. Still ought to get a couple doz bales outa it thereabouts.
As to how much balers are worth, U know that counts on the year involved. There worth a lot less this year than the last 2 by a good third.
The cows I wouldn't get until round the first of the year, a couple months thereabouts after getting the hay crop off.

My kids wont leave there mom, and my moving up there cements that, My boy is looking at a 30 now somewhere my DD.
Joe, Here #1 Im way behind on payments.
#2 There isn't a well or city water
#3 There is no barn 
#4 I have no relation here, and I am around 60 miles from my boy and 80 from my DD.


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## COSunflower

Hey everyone - don't spoil FBB's dreams!!! We are all entitled to our dreams!!! He has an opportunity to buy some land and not one of us wouldn't be dreaming about all that we COULD do if we had the time and money. Doesn't hurt to dream. That's what keeps us going - if we had nothing to look forward to then we might as well just sit down and die.  I feel bad that so many are trying to squash FBB's dreams. What will be, will be. If he is meant to get the land - he will...he will get moved...he will make a home...he will be happy...All in good time - there is NO timeline saying that he has to do it all now!!! Support him like a good HT friend should and be happy for him!!!


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> Its a shame cause the walls on this 32 X 64 barn are 10/12ft high. Just made for a loft.



Did you go inside the barn? Maybe there is a loft. Maybe its full of trash


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## FarmboyBill

Ive been in the barn everytime ive been there. Been in the dog run once. I took 20 pics Sat. Got stuck 10ft from the driveway taking a pic of the water line marker. Luckly after 10 mins a couple young men came by with a 4 wheel drive tractor on a trailer. They unloaded it WITHOUT using ramps and pulled me out. These are about 1/2 odf them Others didn't upload.
se


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## FarmboyBill

Theres doorways E&W. you can see the highth of the walls compared to my GS highth. Theres a box stall, and some kind of home made chicken coop one on either side. The roof isn't sagging, jsust the gutrter. The board stall and house and opening is at the N.


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## Brighton

COSunflower said:


> Hey everyone - don't spoil FBB's dreams!!! We are all entitled to our dreams!!! He has an opportunity to buy some land and not one of us wouldn't be dreaming about all that we COULD do if we had the time and money. Doesn't hurt to dream. That's what keeps us going - if we had nothing to look forward to then we might as well just sit down and die.  I feel bad that so many are trying to squash FBB's dreams. What will be, will be. If he is meant to get the land - he will...he will get moved...he will make a home...he will be happy...All in good time - there is NO timeline saying that he has to do it all now!!! Support him like a good HT friend should and be happy for him!!!


We are trying to support him, support him in making an educated decision, which he is not doing because he doesn't have a clue what he is doing!

I want very much for Mr. Bill to live near his children, and be happy. But going into the deal with half baked assumptions, "if they would take payments on the land", and "reports" from appraisers that have never even been on the property well that is just silly and misleading to the seller.


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## jwal10

I just don't want him to end up like last time, stuck in a property that he has not been able to do what he wanted to do. This place looks very promising from what I can see from the pictures and his description. I don't believe the best thing is to end up with an old mobile home especially for that price. AND now it looks like he won't know until Oct IF the property will still be available or be able to get moved like he had hoped. I think something better is out there if he will work with a realtor. More move in ready....James


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## po boy

Bill,

Have you completed a loan application and got an approval...??


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## starjj

COSunflower said:


> Hey everyone - don't spoil FBB's dreams!!! We are all entitled to our dreams!!! He has an opportunity to buy some land and not one of us wouldn't be dreaming about all that we COULD do if we had the time and money. Doesn't hurt to dream. That's what keeps us going - if we had nothing to look forward to then we might as well just sit down and die.  I feel bad that so many are trying to squash FBB's dreams. What will be, will be. If he is meant to get the land - he will...he will get moved...he will make a home...he will be happy...All in good time - there is NO timeline saying that he has to do it all now!!! Support him like a good HT friend should and be happy for him!!!


 
I don't see anyone trying to squash FBB dreams. I see people that are concerned that he is taking on too much and has not done his HOMEWORK. He asked for opinions and advice. The way most people see it is he has not researched anything in the proper way. I guess we are just suppose to say go for it because it is a dream. I don't think that is what friends do. They give HONEST opinions not blow smoke up your .

He is already not making payments on the place he has because he got in too deep over his head but you go ahead and say atta boy FBB just go ahead and get into another situation because it is your dream.

Personally I don't think he listens to any of the advice anyway which is a shame.


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## Terri

There looks to be pretty good grass on the new place! I can see why FBB is thinking cows.


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## starjj

Yes looks like good grass but I don't understand how you can run cows calves and not have to buy hay to support them on just 10 acres. It was tough for me when I had just the two and one calf on 5. One summer was dry and I had to buy more hay then normal. You get one bad summer and your sunk. Now I have just the mule and chickens. The mule does not keep the pasture down enough because this has been a good year for grass. I had to have my neighbor bush hog it. Cows are eating machines but you have to know what your pasture will support and you can't tell about the weather.


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## FarmboyBill

Terri, That grass would have been plowed up, and a crop of corn taken off and then a crop of hay taken off and plowed again before that ground saw any cows. Gotta plow down the hay grazer, as it will kill cows eating it after its been frosted on. 
Id cut it when the temps got in the low LOW 40s. Then would hope to get a bit of regrowth to plow under, as sorgum sudan grass supposed to make great green fertilizer.


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## FarmboyBill

JJ Im NOT running cows, as you suggest. Im ONLY keeping them for around 3 months.


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## Terri

FarmboyBill said:


> JJ Im NOT running cows, as you suggest. Im ONLY keeping them for around 3 months.


 I think I might have heard of this: buy calves in the spring, graze them all summer, and sell them as larger calves in the fall?


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## starjj

FBB explain to me why keeping COWS 3 months has any profit? You mentioned cows aand calves seperately.

I can see why keeping calves 3 months makes sense although people around here that do that usually keep them longer, of course KY probably has a longer grass season then OK.

Cows here are going sky high but there are lots being sold also. I stopped in at the local auction barn on Tues. and the pens were packed. Must have been over 40 pens easily. Steers mainly but cows also. I only saw one cow with a calf by the side. Saw 4 LARGE bulls (Angus)


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## fordy

................Heard the other day that the beef population is as low as it ever has been ! Given that fact , the obvious conclusion would be that , most heifer calves are going to be utilized to repopulate and yearling steers are headed to the auction ring . Healthy cow\calf pairs are or should be bringing top dollar as those cattlemen will cash in when they think the market is topped out . , fordy


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## FarmboyBill

Terri Im going to buy the calves as bottle calves, in/at the first of the year, Then sell them at around 3 months, when grass starts comeing one and they are weined. People will want to buy a calf that will weigh over 100lbs by fall for butchering.

JJ Many old ranchers here don't like to carry cows through winter. There wives want to go to Florida and sit out the winter, or whatever. in any case theres a glut of cows on the mkt as winter approaches here. That drives the price down somewhat. IF I can buy them then, and run them through till the pastures green up, and the ranchers are looking for good looking cows to put on there ranges, I should make more than what I bought them for. Its a theory. Havnt tested it. IF it don't work, then that's the end of that. Ill just sell the hay and feed the fodder and a bit of alfalfa to the milk cow s.


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## FarmboyBill

yep fordy. I heardrthat from a stockman last year.


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## jwal10

I don't understand when you will have pasture, corn, then haygrazer until frost, plowed under for corn next spring. My concern is he gets the property, spent all his money plus all he can borrow, gets a free mobile. Not done yet, needs to get it [edit](everything) set up, that takes money. He is right back to the same as now....with city water bill. 

Bill how much and when have you done all this, sounds great on paper but real life is different, especially when you leave out a couple steps. Big dreams and memories are not reality. BTDT.

I am lucky though, My body and my mind are on the same page for once. Think it has something to do with the pain of forced learning....James


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## jwal10

Maybe I am learning from my elders. I see where you are at, your age, and don't want to go there. I understand the want to, perfectly. Good luck, Bill. I hope for the best for you. Some people say "nothing ventured, nothing gained" . BUT you could lose it all.

I will shut up now and stay out of your business....James


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## FarmboyBill

Hope ya don't jwal. I value you your insites.


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## elkhound

why not just have a acre or two of OP corn and a couple bottle calves...raise them to butcher..one for you one to split between your children.keep a pig,a few does and a buck rabbit,12 hens and a garden.this set up would keep you fed....heck you could even have a milk cow.forget selling stuff....produce your needs to keep your retirement money in your hand instead of buying outside goods.


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## FarmboyBill

Course your right. Its all plans and dreams as yet. With the plan drawn out and worked over with alla you peoples thoughts and insites, I can have a plan worked out that ought to fit/suit me. IF I find I cant do the work, Ill get help to finish the season ONE TIME likely only. IF the kids see that it works but that im too old to work it, they may do it, using my plan and doing the work. That's what my brother did to/with my dad, and slowly but surely shut out dad of the cattle he had. He would drive down 20 miles when he needed to put out hay, ect. Dad would call him when he saw something bro needed to do. Bro did that cause he saw there was a profit to be made off dads place. IF that is the case on this place, then I likely could get someone in the family interested in continuing it, even tho I couldn't anymore.
We had a ddollie, black and white named lassie. She was a good cattle dog. She got to be around 14 and was humped back and thin and shedding, ect and would sleep most of the day. We got another dog, but she wasn't a cattle dog. We hadn't used lassie in a few years to go get the cattle. But, we coaxed her into going with us and we took our time and got her to the top of the hill in the pasture where the cows were. when we yelled, SICKUM LASSIE, off she went, we hollered the same to the new dog, and she more or less did the same.. We kept holloring to both of them till the cows were got in. Lassie never did it again. The new dog learned to do it from that one time. Maybe it will be that way with me.


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## FarmboyBill

Could work Elk. Sounds like a darn good plan to fall back on if mine fails. OTHER than I cant eat beef. I get pains in my upper chest that like ta kill me. Don't like to eat meat much at all, as, even with eating mostly vegetables, I have a HARD time keeping my weight down. IF I had a woman around, id be as big as a house lol.
The rabbits would be like the bottle calves, something more to look at and kill time with, But you cant make any money with them here. Feed costs too much.
I don't know how much corn id have to have to feed a couple doz laying hens. Them and a couple hogs would like eat up 40bu acre OP corn, on 7 acres. Doubt if id have enough to grind up for a milk cow. too. A couple doz chickens would likely give me between 10 and 20 eggs a day. That would be enough for me and the kids. When the kids came to get eggs, I could get them to do what I couldn't. BUT Both of my kids have told me they don't eat hardly any eggs as we had a glut of them when they were here, and they got weined off of them. I can sell them at the farmers mkt if I have an inspection from the state ag which then gives me a roll of stickers to put one on each egg carton. I can eat 6 to 8 a breakfast and not break a sweat.


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## Terri

To save the cost of milk replacer you might get a milk cow. After you wean the first batch of bottle calves at 3 months, I bet you could get another bunch for another 3 months.

Of course that would leave you with a milk cow to winter over or to sell!!!!!!!!!!


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## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> People will want to buy a calf that will weigh over 100lbs by fall for butchering.


Why would anyone butcher a 100lb calf, unless it was a veal calf!?


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## frogmammy

Bill, don't EXPECT your kids to be manipulated into working the farm you want, for you. They have jobs and families to take care of, and likely don't need, nor have the time for, a non-paying regular job.

Mon


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## FarmboyBill

Good idea, and I thought about that. I might use real milk on a calf that wasn't acting right with replacer. I think its harder for a calf to get scours on real milk, but I don't know that, IF once they get scours, giving them whole milk is a good answer. Seems like it might be too rich, as opposing to reducing the intake of replacer a bit.
But one cow wouldn't supply the needs of a doz calves, AND me. AND the cats lol. Id like to have 2, and hopfully have them both milking at the time I got the calves, but that would be tricky.
As to getting another herd of calves started after selling the first batch, I doubt id want to do that. What with a big garden, getting in the corn, ect, raising 100 chicks, I think id be busy enough.

As an aside, I still got around 70 rabbit cages yet, Id take and set up. Ill be taking the 100 X 300 board hog/goat lot fence with me and putting it back up in some configuration. I think I could run it from the barn W to the road, then follow the road N to the line fence which is in a buncha locust trees. Then back E to the NE corner of the barn. Id put the cages along the sides of the fence, with 2X4s resting on the fence top, coming out 3ft then a support post coming down to the ground, and a 20foot length running with the cages on the supports for stability. Don't think id start out with the tin roofing I have over them now, as that's needed too much/bad for chicken house roofing. But If I saw a advantage to keeping rabbits again, I could slowly start to re tin the roof of the cages. There solid wire. The tin just laid on top of them and was wired with bailing wire wrapped around the whole cage.


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## FarmboyBill

Unless it was a veal calf. Im just guessing on the weight. I think it was closer more to 150. I raised a doz in 72 thereabouts.
FM SIL will help cause he misses doing the things I get to do. They have 3 small tractors on a lot that's around 85 X 185. DD planted a few trees in it so it couldn't be farmed, and hes said a couple time to just let him know when he can come out plow, ect. DS will help cause he has already said he expects me to help him on his place, for as long as I can. His place will be way bigger than mine as he wants much more ground, so I oughta get help on my piddely 7. He likely will be borrowing my mowers, rakes, and racks to do hay with, so he better darn well help out. Ill likely drive a tractor in the hay field for as long as I can climb up on one.


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## goatlady

I hope you realize that IF you do decide to haul that trailor/mobile that is free you will need a permit from every county you go through? Plus you have to give them the route you will be driving so they can check that there are no powerlines crossing those roads that would be snagged plus you will need a "wide load" car/truck front and back. Way cheaper to hire it done and the price will include all those permits, if charged, and all clearances all the way. You can't just go hook up and haul.


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## FarmboyBill

I don't know about how it is in Ark, and im not too sure about how it is in Okla, BUT I DO KNOW, there is NO powerlines across any highway that a trailer would hit, cause this country is covered with oil trucks that carry towers laid down but still way up there on them.
My boy is a foreman at Bama Pie Co. He deals with truckers and thinks he will be able to find a trucker to haul one. I imagine the truckers know the requirements, and so ill bow to their demands when the time comes.

Good thought tho. Sure something to think about.


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## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> Unless it was a veal calf. Im just guessing on the weight. I think it was closer more to 150. I raised a doz in 72 thereabouts.


So you are just going to raise them a bit, like 3 months, then resell them? I butcher when the steers are near 800 to 900 pounds or about a year and a 1/2 to two years old, otherwise what is the point?

I have never known anyone in my life that would butcher a 100 to 150lb steer, if you are going to do that you might as well raise meat goats!


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## FarmboyBill

Its just something to keep me busy in the wintertime. I imagine there would be buyers in the springtime that would like a small calf maybe to put on a small acreage when spring has come and grass shoots up

I want something that makes me have to get out and do chores day after day in the winter. I could put off cutting wood, looking for a warmer day until I ran out and froze myself in to cutting some, but with chores Id have to get out morning and night.
I expect to have to cut wood this winter. I hope like heck NOT to have to come NEXT winter.


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## FarmboyBill

One thing, Ill surely get more help to cut wood up there than I get here, which is none here. The kids want me up there, so they know it will be cheaper to help me cut wood, than have me struggle to buy gas. At least this coming winter I Imagine it would be a struggle, what with expenses of moving in, setting up, ect.


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## FarmboyBill

Brighton, Im figuring they would be #100/125 at the end of 3 months. Im figuring, but I wouldn't care whatever the buyer done with them, that they would be put on grass all spring summer and fall long. It might be theoretically possible, that come winter whoever bought them from me might want to sell them, and Id buy them back and run them through the winter as yearlings while I had another batch of baby calves to raise.


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## Shygal

I believe Bill is not talking about grazing the cows and calves, but planting corn and hay on the ground and feeding the cows and calves in a feedlot type arrangement


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## Shygal

Sometimes our dreams don't make sense to others dreams. It doesn't matter because they are ours, not others.

Go for it Bill, just maybe keep looking for another place while you are thinking of that one


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## FarmboyBill

Well, SG Theyed have the run of the field but, yes as, like in a feedlot.
As to for looking for another place. I have 2 agents, from 2 different companies feeding me what is open in my price range, and theres NOTHING, that has the open land, at the money I can afford. There are 3 ONLY properties available up there now. 2 are relatively wooded, one, the single wide sits in a flood zone and the land is somewhat wooded, and the other is 79Gs, I havnt even bothered to look at it.
Im likely Not going to find another place, this close to my DD, who will likely be the primary care giver for when I need her for that, for the money.
If you find a place with a house on it, the land cant be worth a fraction of what the house is worth, or the banks wont go it. IF the house needs extensive repairs, the bank wont go for it. IF the house don't need extensive repairs, I cant afford it, OR the land is wooded, or rocky, OR both.

AS AN ASIDE, As im so close to above ground pools of water there, and I didn't see no rock, Im thinking of driving down a sand point with 4ft pieces of 2in pipe. With a T post driver. Pipe is the casing. They sell a 1 11/16ths cylinder that goes in it. Then you run a rod down to the cylinder like any other pump cylinder. Supposed to pump .12 gal a min. Cabin Fever says that's about a gal in 12 strokes. I don't know if that's the strokes of a kitchen sink pitcher pump, a cistern pump or a well pump. Don't really know if the size of the pump makes a difference.
I took a pic, but its one of those that didn't come out of a rock casing above the ground for a filled in well. Hand dug. Wish I knew how deep it was.


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## FarmboyBill

I wont need any water this winter, once I put the gutter back on the S side of the barn and refix the one on the N side, and catch rain in my 2 stock tanks. Thatll give me time to get a well dug/drilled. Me and my boy been watching U Tubes, and theres several ways to inexpensively dig wells, homemade devices. Don't want to go on city water till I have to.


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## elkhound

look how productive this fellow is on his 5 acres.he could be my neighbor any day !!


[YOUTUBE]ucdsju8FYKw[/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE]mMapNsmGuAo[/YOUTUBE]


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## elkhound

a big tank with roof water would keep you in water and livestock.


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## elkhound

since you have the equipment bill you could get in a couple acres of alfalfa and square bale it to feed to rabbits and fore go commercial feeds for the most part.plus have it for a milk cow or a calf.


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## elkhound

you ever see the articles Ken Scharabok wrote about his family in europe when he visited.man were they productive on their tiny spot of land.they harvested most of there feed/forage needs from roadsides.he cut a wheelbarrow full and dried it.then put it inside for winter feed for critters.ken was a moderator here but has passed away...he wrote a few articles about his family over there.


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## FarmboyBill

Alfalfa don't grow here in Okieland. Ive seen only one field, and that up by my DD, and the guy who owned it ran a fert co, whether that had anything to do with it or not.


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## elkhound

use timothy then


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## elkhound

bet its cause people are hardheaded and set in traditions....heres Oklahoma extension/state university pdf on growing alfalfa.my grandfather said broccoli would grow here.i proved him wrong....then he started growing it and everyone ranted and raved over what a broccoli producer he was....lol...old men are hard headed.


http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2584/PSS-2089web.pdf


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## elkhound

all the alfalfa i seen grown here is drought tolerant too.it produced when these other farmers couldnt get mixed hayfield to yield.here they drill it with oats to establish it.


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## elkhound

if you want to graze it there are varieties for that too that are tougher for cows to rip up as they graze it.alfalfa graze is one.


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## FarmboyBill

I don't know nothing about timothy. I would think if it can be grown here that the farmers would grow it for high priced hay for horses. Same with Lespedezia, and Brome grass. Nonna that frown anywhere I live


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## FarmboyBill

nonna that GROWN here


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## FarmboyBill

up home you didn't dare let cows get out open the alfalfa field for long. They would bloat big time. Ive had to walk a cow a time or two to keep her up and so she could start farting.


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## elkhound

have you ever talked with an extension agent......heres a Oklahoma fact sheet about this.

http://oces.okstate.edu/oklahoma/agriculture/alfalfa-1

heres a quote from start of article.....so somebody is growing it there.

Alfalfa is one of Oklahoma's most important crops, occupying about 400,000 acres and generating $100-200 million in direct sales. Higher monetary values are cited when the "value-added" aspects of animal products are included.


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## elkhound

*[SIZE=+2]Sentinel, Oklahoma

http://www.oklahomashowsteer.com/churchshorthorns/alfalfahay.html

[/SIZE]*


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## FarmboyBill

Like I said. Ive drove from Here to Tulsa, to Okmulgee, to Muskogee, to Pawnee, to Nowata, and ive only see ONE field of alfalfa


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## elkhound

bill my only point is theres knowledge and ways out there if you want to learn and search them out.


everyones daddy grandaddys brothers cousin aunt best friends half sisters married a man from east coast way of farming might need upgrading ever so often.

i delt with my grandfathers backwoods ways and thinking despite proving him wrong time and time again.we ALL can learn if we take time to look outside the box of what is and at what might be.he wouldnt read a extension pamplet to save his soul.

i even would bet you could triple forage there with a sudan or a sudex or a milo type feed.especially in the last few years of heat.but you need to be careful at certain times with these forages.


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## elkhound

do you mind telling what county you are in.


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## FarmboyBill

will be in Nowata Co. In in Creek Co now.

I know one thing I got to get a lot better at, and that's my gardening. Im drivin to get out in the spring time and plant a garden. I keep it clean, and see it grow. Bout the time it gets really hot I blow it off, and don't get near what I could get out of it. Ive GOT to learn to keep with it. I suppose that that will be easier if I have water to keep it looking good. Whatever, I got to do a lot better.


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## FarmboyBill

Ive raised sudan grass several times here, and milo once. Chickens wasn't as crazy about milo as they were about corn, and it passed right through hogs.


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## Ramblin Wreck

You can grow lespedeza almost anywhere, but the trick with that grass/legume for haying is to cut it while it is young, otherwise it develops a coarse stem and gets loaded up with tannins. Cows won't eat it very well unless there is absolutely nothing else around. Goats (and I think sheep too) will eat it regardless, and it is a high protein hay, sometimes called the poor man's alfalfa. They use it a lot around here for roadside erosion control on steep banks, and it is also used for mine reclamation projects across the country. The stuff will grow almost anywhere, and it is very drought tolerant. I've got three bags of seeds in the barn I was going to drill in some new pasture, but I finally found enough chicken poop and lime to make the fescue grow.


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## jwal10

Bill, have you checked on the cost of that water? Here it costs as much as to buy the garden stuff. Most people only grow the easy things that don't take much water. Not worth while growing corn. I am lucky with this gravity fed spring. But I looked a long time to find it. Out at my little farm, water is shallow. I have the pond, but drinking water is from an old well with a hand pump, very good water too. The little town I worked in, water was $38.00/ month for the first 5000 gallons and $2.35 for each 1000 gals after that. Plus $7.00/month for a utility improvement fee. They just raised it another $3.00 this July after a $3.00 raise last July. $48.00 now for only 5000 gals of water....James


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## FarmboyBill

Alfalfa is grown in the western part of the state. Fact is theres an county named Alfalfa county in Okla, and they had a Gov in the early 20s named Alfalfa Bill Murry. He died and his wife finished his term

We had L at home, or a patch of it. 

As to water, Im hoping to drill a well. I think the water table must be close with so much water within a quarter mile of me OR less after a good rain. Ive been looking on U tubes at people rigging up different ways of drilling a well. Push come to schove, hammering a sand point down in a couple places around the garden area as the flow per min is small, and one or 2 in the lot should do it. Ill decide on what I get as a well if I want to hook up to rural water or not. Ill ask at church, but I think that its around $40? for 10 000 here.


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## FarmboyBill

I doubt if I could raise the money enough needed to plant 7 acres of alfalfa.
#3. IF I did, it would only be a small patch so as to raise rabbits, and I found out theres no mkt here for rabbits. I wouldn't go PF as they got a BAD habit of drawing back there lines of pickup whenever demand is slow OR another pickup point is opened up closer to R Ark.


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## COSunflower

Bill, instead of trying to make money...why don't you just get a small place - a couple acres like Elkhound suggested - and just work on subsistance living. Just grow what you need to eat and preserve for the year and just have enough animals to provide for yourself too. A few chickens, some meat rabbits, perhaps a milk cow but I think you can probably buy milk cheaper than feeding and vetting a cow. It would be less work and more enjoyable for you. Just enough to get you out and around each day but not TOO much...Let your chickens free range during the day to conserve on feed and keep down the bugs. Feed the meat rabbits weeds, grass, and things that you can grow in the garden for them. Sell all of your BIG equipment and put that $$$ on the place or in the bank for emergencies. One person doesn't require much and I find that I can live on very little and I bet you can too. Get a lady from church to help you with canning your harvest. I imagine that there are plenty that would. The main thing at OUR age is to KEEP IT SMALL.


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## Brighton

Just doing a quick search on homes for sale in Nowata, OK, there are several nice smaller homes with big lots, not like raising cattle big lots, but I agree with several others in that you don't really need the hassle of cattle, but well big enough for chickens and rabbits and a huge garden in the Nowata area.

I really like this one.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/436-S-Ruth-St-Nowata-OK-74048/86074137_zpid/


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## SimplerTimez

FarmboyBill said:


> up home you didn't dare let cows get out open the alfalfa field for long. They would bloat big time. Ive had to walk a cow a time or two to keep her up and so she could start farting.


Good grief (adds this to list of things she never wants to call her job)

1. Walk cow till it farts.

Sheesh. Thank goodness you don't have to throw it over your shoulder and pat it till it burped. No one would have a good back that raised cows.

~ST


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## COSunflower

ST - Sometimes you DO have to do that! With horses too! LOL


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## SimplerTimez

COSunflower said:


> ST - Sometimes you DO have to do that! With horses too! LOL


Hmmm, chickens are looking better and better. At least all you have to do with them is squeeze poop to determine gender 

LOL!

~ST


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## Lazy J

My father is the same age as FarmBoyBill and I am working hard to convince him to get rid off his livestock and extra poultry. The work is too much for him and his wife has Fibromyalgia so she is worthless as tits on a Boar Hog. I recommend you find a smaller parcel and work an simplifying your life.


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> As to water, Im hoping to drill a well. I think the water table must be close with so much water within a quarter mile of me OR less after a good rain.



Bill, I have a little spring fed rivulet behind my house, a swamp, it floods constantly about 500 yards from me in the spring and after a good rain too......

my well is 500 feet deep.


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## Lazy J

Never mind. I'll let FBB have his dreams.


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## Brighton

Shygal said:


> That wasnt rude lol If anything, you are the rude one telling him what to buy, what to grow, what to do, etc.
> 
> Maybe his dream doesn't work for you or me but its his dream, and when you stop dreaming you grow old and wither away.


Down sizing, does not mean stop dreaming! Dream all you want, live all you want, but at his age, with the fact that he has mentioned he can't walk very far or stand very long due to issues with his feet and ankles, well I would be taking a long hard look at what I can do, and what would give me the most enjoyment and go from there.

And I may be rude, but I am also a realist, and dreams can cost a lot of loss and money, which he doesn't seem to have.

Anna


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## coolrunnin

Dreams cost you nothing! Planning is always fun, even if you have to scale back to reality.


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## FarmboyBill

Thanks SG. And IF you got to go 500ft to get water when you got hard flowing water near by. that blows my theory about water being close to surface.

#1 I NEVER asked anyone to tell me what to grow, how to farm, ect. I DID appreciate all the ideas and RECOMMENDATIONS that many gave me. They/that caused me to think about their ideas, how they applied to them where they live, and how they would apply at where I live. They caused me to apply them to MY IDEA as a file testing metal for hardness. I appreciate it, and hope it continues. It causes us top talk about farming/gardening/homesteading. It lets others see ideas they might not have heard of, or known till somebody posted here, BUT as SG and PO BOY said. I got an aversion to someone recommending that I should scale down and start looking at the rocking chair more. My brother did that with dad. He first kept at dad to slow down. Then he finally got dad to sell off all HIS cows while brother kept upping his on dads land. THEN ASSUMEING dad needed constant watching, he moved him and family in. Then dad died and he got the farm.
I have to worry about that with my kids.


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## calliemoonbeam

Bill, I haven't read this thread until just now. I truly hope your dreams work out and you get what you want and that you can handle it. But I think you've picked a hard row to hoe at your age and with your health and finances.

Before I bought my place out here (for those that don't know, Bill and I are only about 5 or so miles apart in the same area), I wanted to move north, too. The land is much better there, it's a whole lot cooler and with nice breezes all the time, and I had good friends out that way. 

However, land from Owasso northward all the way to Bartlesville was way, way more expensive than out southwest, where we are now. I never found anything that was less than $5,000 an acre, and some of it was $10,000! For just plain, unimproved land, with no water, electric, gas, septic, nothing but grass, not even any fencing. And that was almost 7 years ago, and that area has just gotten more and more popular over the years. 

I'd say $5,000 an acre is a pretty good price for out there, not like the $2,500 or so an acre goes for out here. The reason land is so much cheaper out here is exactly because it is so rocky with clay soil that needs a lot of work to grow anything very well, not to mention all the extra bugs, snakes, etc., we have here that they don't have so much of up north. 

The only reason I bought my place out here is I was desperate to get out of the gang/gunfight/drug dealing neighborhood that was all I could afford in the city after almost dying, being out of work for over a year and ruining my credit. I was lucky enough to find this place on a contract for deed deal for 7 years, but I paid it off in 5-1/2. Meant to do it quicker, but broke my arm and strained my back the day after I moved, lol, and then developed MRSA in my leg, so it really slowed me down.

I honestly don't know if you're going to find what you want at a price you can afford and still get a bank to finance. And I agree with the others, you need to at least speak to a real estate attorney before you make a commitment to anyone. My contract was pretty straight forward, but I spent the money on an attorney and thought it was money well spent. There are just so many things that could go wrong and so many things you either haven't thought of or haven't figured properly. 

You know I desperately want to get out of this area, too, lol. I planned to move somewhere better after 5 years, with the money from the sale of this place (after the improvements I've made) to make a good down payment on another place. But my health issues, a great doctor and my financial situation are keeping me here for now. I've had to change my dream, at least for now, and you may have to also, or at least downsize it, but then I'm not sure how you'd get financing. 

You might consider joining a credit union. I'm not sure how long you have to be a member to get that kind of loan, but I know they loan smaller amounts, but do require a 40% down payment for land (at least mine does). If you worked at consolidating your stuff and saving money for a couple of years, you might be able to do it better that way, and you'd have time to make better plans and decide what you really can and can't do instead of being in such a rush.

Sorry this is so long but 9 pages' worth is a lot to cover, lol, and you know I'm a talker anyway. I consider you a friend and hope things work out for you. Good luck!


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## FarmboyBill

Good hearin from ya Callie. Enjoying the rain?


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## calliemoonbeam

I don't get around much any more, too many things going on in real life, ha!

I really am enjoying the rain Bill, but I'm amazed, lol. I expected another year of severe drought, and here we are still getting rain and cool temps in the middle of August, who'd a thunk it??  

I just wish it would get rid of all my yellow jackets, never seen so many in one season in my life! I'll actually be glad for winter this year. Uh...remind me I said that in about February when I'm freezing to death okay??


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## FarmboyBill

ND with alla the rain weve had, Im expecting a COLD Snowy winter.


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## Terri

FarmboyBill said:


> ND with alla the rain weve had, Im expecting a COLD Snowy winter.


 SSSHHH!!!!!!!:nono:

We got 2 major blizzards this year at the END of spring: don't you DARE give Mother Nature the idea of hitting us AGAIN!:help:


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## FarmboyBill

gear up fur it, its a comin


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## FarmboyBill

Theres a neighbor across the crossroads from the place. DD knows him as he is a contract supplier for her company. Somehow she and he found out the place im looking at getting and he told her he lives right across the road. 
I called her to day and asked her that, when she sees him again to ask him how deep HIS water well is.


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## COSunflower

Yellow jackets and wasps are bad HERE right now too!!!  Tree leaves are starting to fall and I've seen two bunches of geese in formation going over in the past week...Hope it's not an early winter!!!


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## FarmboyBill

I wouldn't be supprised if it were. That's what causes me stress about signing and getting this place by the first of the year. IF its an early winter, im going to have to cut wood here. THEN Ill either have to load it and haul it there, OR cut some there, and try to get by. I could throw it in the barn there, but that is around 3 times the distance of where the wood shed to the house is here.


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## Shygal

I hope your water table isnt as deep as it is here lol

And the good thing about buying 10 acres? Bill doesnt have to use all 10 acres if he doesn't want to. He can choose to only use 2 or 3. But if he buys a 2 or 3 acre place and find he wants/needs more land? It aint there.


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## ceresone

FFB-wondering the area Shelton tried to sell you? He owns land just past our farm, dont know how many times he's sold it--Willow Springs area...


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## ceresone

Our MFA trucks in grass hay from Okla--my horses prefer it to everything! BUT--it runs 8. per square bale


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## FarmboyBill

Cere. I couldn't tell you the exact location. It was on the N side of a gravel road is all I can say. It had an abandoned school bus away a bit from the house. I tend to think the roof was red, but I could be totally wrong on that. The house was white, and had a breakfast nook built onto it. We only saw it once. When we packed up to come back he said it had been sold. Course alla that was in 75. That was nearly 40yrs ago.


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## FarmboyBill

That's the minimum it runs here sold out of a feed store.


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## COSunflower

$14 a 75lb bale here now.


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## ceresone

thanks, FBB-I've lived on this place since 1966, think I know where you mean--BRP had dealings with Neil too. Good grief--14.75 a bale??


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## billooo2

FarmboyBill said:


> Cere. I couldn't tell you the exact location. It was on the N side of a gravel road is all I can say. It had an abandoned school bus away a bit from the house. I tend to think the roof was red, but I could be totally wrong on that. The house was white, and had a breakfast nook built onto it. We only saw it once. When we packed up to come back he said it had been sold. Course alla that was in 75. That was nearly 40yrs ago.





CountryWannabe said:


> I never, ever thought that I would come to Bill's defense, and I do realize that many on here are just trying to watch out for him, but he wants to farm. It may be that he can find a smaller (say, 5 acres or so) place to farm, but a pocket handkerchief in town is not going to afford him the lifestyle he wants. "Taking it easy" sounds nice. Till you are sat looking at four walls wishing you had more to keep you going than people who are "looking out for your welfare".
> 
> How would you guys feel if you were told you couldn't homestead anymore? Or that you should just potter around in your gardens till the grim reaper cuts you down at the roots?
> 
> Mary



I find myself asking........."Should I cut back on what I try to do????? Would I rather take a chance of dropping dead hauling hay to the animals??????.......or live a few more years sitting in a rocking chair.....wondering what would I have been able to do.....but I would never know ........because I did not try...... :shrug:

Bill.........fortunately, nowhere close to rocking chair time.....


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## FarmboyBill

Bill..........I love rocking chairs. will only sit in them if possible. DONT want to die in one.

Ive paid $15 a bale for alfalfa.


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## katydidagain

I was here about a year before Bill arrived; I have always found his input entertaining (even the absolutely over the top TMI ones he posts just to stir things up (and, yes, I realize that the word input will make his ears perk up but that's a given)). I hope he finds his Nirvana--whether that's 1/2 acre in town or off grid on 1000 acres. Perhaps his "dream" is stupid to many; it isn't to me. I like Langston Hughes' take on dreams....


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## newfieannie

it isn't stupid to me either. what is keeping me going is working at my place in order to get back to it. although I already own the land about 30 miles away and i don't have to buy some. so I suppose that counts for something. i never should have had this big house in the city.( although i do own that also) when my husband passed i know now i should have stayed where i was. i haven't really felt settled since then to tell you the truth. I've no doubt if i didn't have my dream of going back and all i had was this place in the city i wouldn't last too long.

my son was right 2 years ago when i wanted to pass the land over to him. he said no because without it i would grieve myself to death. as it is i can go back and forth daily if i want to. work on the land a few hours. boil the kettle and have some tea in the woods. that's my fix until the next time. ~Georgia


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## FarmboyBill

Sounds plenty good to me.

LOL I guess I am picky. I don't want a 1/2 acre in town, OR an off grid 1000 lol


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## Shygal

Like I said, Bill.....if you get 10 acres and want to farm the whole thing for a few years, you can ALWAYS downsize if YOU want to, and farm 8 one year, 6 the next, etc. But if you have 2 acres and want to scale up things, its not gonna happen


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## FarmboyBill

U Absolutly right SG. When I see Im through with farming. Ill still have some kind of garden. Ill put the place into Brome or Lespedezia, and set in my rocking chair and watch either the kids bale it or somebody. ill still make some kinda money off of it


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## FarmboyBill

Just thinkin. Theres a gazillion locust trees on 2 sides of the property. Thornless. Running from 4in to thereabouts 10in. Could a log cabin be made outa them?


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## Guest

FBB..

I forgot..why aren't you farming now?..or running cows, etc. ??


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## FarmboyBill

Lesley, I forgot to tell you, I put in 12 acres of haygrazer/sudan grass this year. Ive never ran cows cause I don't have water. I didn't grow corn 2 yrs ago cause of the drouth. I didn't last year cause I thought id be moving quick. I didn't this year cause It would just be something else id have to move. Haygrazer sells WAY better, and is easier to move.


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## ceresone

Goodness, FBB, just keep dreaming and planning--it helps get thru each day with a positive attitude. I'm 76 years old-still keep this 40 acres going! Each year, it shrinks a little closer to the house, in terms of what I get done--but next year.....see what I mean?


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## FarmboyBill

Ive been doin, BUT NEXT YEAR, all my life. Don't know how to quit. Don't know if I want to. Don't think I do. lol


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## FarmboyBill

Last night, outa boredom, I drew out the barnyard area, bldgs. placement, ect.
I also drew out a plan for a combination grainery/corn crib tool shed with tractor storage in the center alleyway.. IF I cant afford to do that, Ill have to make the grainery/corncrib separate of the tool shed with no place for the tractors.


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## calliemoonbeam

That's one of my favorite things to do Bill! I don't sleep a lot at night, and I've spent hours drawing and planning out my ideal house and property with different settings of outbuildings, gardens, livestock pens, and everything for different locations/terrains, etc. 

I've been doing that since I was a teenager, although the sizes, designs and layouts have changed over the years. It's what keeps me going when I get discouraged or think I'm not ever going to get to my "dream home". It's a good exercise for keeping your dream alive.

I've achieved my "dream home" of the moment several times, but through divorce, financial issues or ill health lost or had to change them, but I keep dreaming and eventually I keep coming back, just like a bad penny, lol!  

I'm hoping this next one will be the best and last, so I don't mind (too much!) that it's taking a little time to achieve. If nothing else, it's teaching me patience, something I've never had much of!


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## FarmboyBill

Yuppa. IF I havnt drawn a hundred barn plans, I havnt drawn one. The barn I had in my late teens and early 20s was round the same size as this one. Then I thought it was tiny. NOW, I think its fine. Course, I never had one inbetween.


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## jwal10

SOOOOOO, it is past Friday. What did you get figured out. What did you do about the property. You been pretty quiet....James


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## FarmboyBill

Im going, as a matter of fact out to take more pics, as the ones I took, only around 1/2 came out. Im also going to witch for a well, and get an idea of the garden area, and where ill park the machinery, and if I can make a 100X 300 lot, or something of that configuration, as I have around 800 linier feet of solid board pallets I had set up here for hog/goat fence. I called them a couple days ago and said I was coming and might stop by. Didn't get a response. usually do. Not the first time. They lost my ph# when I first contacted them about the place. Wanted to know the depth of the old filled in well, if they knew it, AND if the county supplies a driveway tube, or IF I have to supply it, WHICH I have, but mine is of a hard ribbed rubber type. I have that under my driveway here as well, but its buried around 3fdt deep making it able to take any weight. There, at an old driveway I want to reuse, it wouldn't be but maybe a foot deep, and so a rubber one might not work. 
Ill get them to start on the contract the 1st of Oct. Pick it up the 8th.

Getting ready to cut hay again the first week of Sept. Finished this morning reshimming a Case hay rake, steel wheeled. Put new brass shims in the ends of the reel.


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## jwal10

Did you get your baler working. The plastic culvert will work wherever a metal one would. Filled in well? Was it done right? or just filled, with?? Good luck....James


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## FarmboyBill

Going to try out the bailer again tomorrow. Finished with the rake today. Took a week. Most things do now its summertime. Im going to round bale again, as they sell better, and I don't have any place to store squarfe bales here. IF I get a thitting, I ought to know if im getting the place by then, and if so ill put up squares and put them ion the barn for a milk cow. As to the well, I just noticed the round rock around 2 ft or so high, and dirt inside it flush thereabouts with the ground. It sits behind the little shed that's locked, and between it and the W side of the barn. It couldn't be a ornimate like a wishing well, as its in the worst place to put one, b ut in a good spot for a real well.
Whats the min dirt should be above a culvert pipe??


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## jwal10

Better check out that well. make sure it hasn't contaminated the aquafer. It could just be plugged off. A culvert should have 12" of cover but many have much less....James


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## FarmboyBill

12in would be the max I could get over it, and getting it to stay, as its on a slope from the road to the land might be something. Where I hope to find a stream of water is around 70ft away from there. And East. Here the lines run around 40ft apart and all run N & S.
Well I belted up the bailer to the tractor, tightened the apron and started it up. It fired off the charge of gas in the bowl and that was that. Tank empty. I could have unbelted, split the belt put it round the flywheel just to test it, and and may do that yet.
Mans supposed to have my Isuzu ready. Course, hes told me that for over 3 mos.
Waiting on a laser cutter to cut me 4 plates for my IHC simi mount sickle mower. The plates fit outside the flywheel and onto the pitman rod. $90. 2 ea of original thickness, and 2 of heavier thickness.
Moved in the R wheel on the H in preparation for mowing last night.
Got the clutch disc for the Cub through UPS. Kinda dread tearing it apart by myself. Ill get it done tho, after I put the bailer away.


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## Shygal

so you are going for it again?

I would make sure they are ok with it, before doing ANYTHING there, Bill. Even going on the property is technically considered trespassing. The last you told them , you werent going to do anything until the first of the year, now you are going to "get them " to work on a contract for October? What if they dont want to now?


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## AngieM2

FBB - I'm with Shygal on this one... have you gotten signed paperwork in hand before putting anything on, or doing anything to that piece of property?

You appear to be going your merry way without regards to legalities that can hurt you in the long run, and leave you in a real mess; or could even protect you should a mess arise.

But your business methods, as stated in this thread, really are not going to be good for you.


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## wr

I'm going to have to agree with Angie and shygal on this. If things do happen to fall apart or get messy, a verbal agreement seldom stands up in court so without a written contract or agreement, you should probably tread carefully.


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## Terri

Many, many years ago I took a 2 unit course on contract law as it pertained to agriculture.

Basically, if real estate is involved it must be in writing, or it does not count. You can have a verbal agreement for a car and take it to court and you might win: you cannot do the same thing for land.

Of course, if the sellers do not complain that FBB was using the land then it will be just as FBB intends, but, until a contract is signed he has no legal standing. 

When we bought the land that I live on we had a verbal understanding, and it worked out very well as we were in agreement and we both lived up to our end, but UNTIL THE PAPERS WERE SIGNED TWO MONTHS LATER we buyers could have changed our minds and the seller would have been out of luck. Or the seller could have changed his mind and we would have been out of luck.

Nothing is legal in real estate until the papers are signed. With that in mind, I hope that FBB enjoys the use of the property, if that is what they both agree on!


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## starjj

99 percent here should realize that talking to FBB is like talking to a brick wall. 

No matter how sound the advice is he is going to do what he does no matter what you are saying or advicing. 

Some of you that said go for it live your dream now are saying wait you should do this or do that.

Giving advice that isn't going to be listened to is a waste of time and effort.

He either is going to be sobbing over this in a couple of months or it will work out for him.

Personally I wouldn't be doing what he is as now a days you unfortunately can't make a hand shake deal except in rare cases.

If he works out good if it doesn't bad either way he isn't going to listen to anything that is said here.


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## coolrunnin

My only thing about Bill's plans: he isn't changing anything but his address, all the things he plans to do on the new place could have been done on the current place. It would be payed for, and moving to new digs would have been a breeze.

Bottom line it takes money and commitment to farm successfully.


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## COSunflower

That's the problem I think. The current place ISN'T paid for and he HAS to leave...Did I get it right FBB? I think he is trying to find something more affordable and closer to his kids.


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## coolrunnin

My understanding he couldn't make the payments except interest, and he has a balloon payment coming up

A bank isn't nearly that forgiving don't make the payments in full they throw you off and put somebody on who does.


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## fordy

................My guess is that , IF , FBB defaults on his current mortgage , the lender of record will get a judgement against him and attach all equipment residing on the current property which will preempt him from moving that equipment to another location ! Most likely it will be sold and the proceeds will be applied against the judgement . 
................Even more likely is that he has pledged specific pieces of equipment as collateral against his current loan and cannot remove it to a 'new' location ! Total conjecture on my part , obviously ! , fordy


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## Laura

All that, or he's spinning yarn from the wool he pulled over ya'll's eyes he plucked from the clear blue sky.


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## Guest

COSunflower said:


> That's the problem I think. The current place ISN'T paid for and he HAS to leave...Did I get it right FBB? I think he is trying to find something more affordable and closer to his kids.


Semantics. 

Bill said that years ago he contracted privately for this land..he said that he is not intending to inform the mortgage holder that he's leaving..he wants to live near his adult children..nowhere did he say that he HAS to leave..he's simply leaving..


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## Shygal

Yes BL, thats about it. He hasn't paid payments on his land that he has a private contract with the owners for. His place does NOT have water. He wants to be near his kids, he wants a barn

Does anyone know if you put something on someone elses land, does it become theirs? 
Thats what Im worried about, Bill bringing things there like the mobile home, and them saying "What contract? This is all ours"


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## fordy

Shygal said:


> Yes BL, thats about it. He hasn't paid payments on his land that he has a private contract with the owners for. His place does NOT have water. He wants to be near his kids, he wants a barn
> 
> Does anyone know if you put something on someone elses land, does it become theirs?
> Thats what Im worried about, Bill bringing things there like the mobile home, and them saying "What contract? This is all ours"


...............Depends upon the explicit language of the contract that he signed ! IF , he has pledged specific pieces of equipment , he is prevented from removing them , IF he defaults on his obligations . , fordy


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## wr

If there is no contact, a barn would likely be considered a fixed asset and remain on the land. A contract could be put in place that would allow him to remove it or be compensated but that would require legal advice.


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## jwal10

The place he is on has no water so he could not have many animals. This place is not cheap (er). It is close to family and has water, BUT no house, same as where he is. He thinks he can farm there. My concern IS, can he afford what he wants to do, when he couldn't at the place he is on. He will need to set up something to live in. He talked about moving the sheds he lives in now, then adding bath, kitchen, etc. OR have a free mobile moved in.

Bill asked for our thoughts on this, he will then take that "advice" and make his own plan. May not be what we would do but he can not do what everyone wants him to do. He has listened and asked more questions to help him make HIS decision. It is not ours to judge him, just help him to understand his options. HE, like anyone else will do it HIS way....James


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## starjj

jwal10 said:


> The place he is on has no water so he could not Bill asked for our thoughts on this, he will then take that "advice" and make his own plan. May not be what we would do but he can not do what everyone wants him to do. He has listened and asked more questions to help him make HIS decision. It is not ours to judge him, just help him to understand his options. HE, like anyone else will do it HIS way....James


Well he sure hasn't listened to ANY advice. The big advice is to do it LEGALLY and with knowledgeable advice. He has done nothing anyone has advised. No one is judging him. Most are trying to HELP him which he pretty much ignores unless he hears what he wants to hear but go ahead and say go for it. Doing it his way doesn't mean it is the correct way to do it. It just means you aren't listening to good advice.


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## jwal10

He has no contract yet, just verbal. He wanted to move something there to live in after he signed a contract with the present owners (that and $500.00 earnest money) contingent upon the money coming through from the bank. He thinks a time delay will make his first payment after the first of the year "when/if" the bank loans the money. He thought that, IF he left the wheels on a mobile it was his because it is not tied down. I don't know if he needs an occupancy certificate or can get one without it being tied down. I believe his last thought was to give up on getting something moved to live in. He is very anxious to get going but changes his plans as he listens to the advice given. I still hold out hope that he will get "real" legal help before he commits himself to anything....James


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## po boy

In post 165, FBB said he is way behind on his current place.

He needs to get approved by the bank, before he does anything else.


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## Guest

po boy said:


> In post 165, FBB said he is way behind on his current place.
> 
> He needs to get approved by the bank, before he does anything else.


Bill has said that he need not inform the bank about defaulting on his current mortgage...that's a neat trick in 2013..I too wish Bill could have a place with water, a decent home and be close to his children/grandchildren..yet when one reads HOW he imagines that to become a reality, one sees the odds are in favor of disappointment.


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## Terri

As I recall, Bill is buying on a land contract with a private individual. He has stated he intends to let them take the land back, as he owes more than the land is worth, he has fallen behind in the payments, and because he wishes to move.


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## po boy

bostonlesley said:


> Bill has said that he need not inform the bank about defaulting on his current mortgage...that's a neat trick in 2013..I too wish Bill could have a place with water, a decent home and be close to his children/grandchildren..yet when one reads HOW he imagines that to become a reality, one sees the odds are in favor of disappointment.


 That neat trick is also known as fraud.

*Failure to disclose liabilities:* Borrowers may conceal obligations, such as mortgage loans on other properties or newly acquired credit card debt, to reduce the amount of monthly debt declared on the loan application. This omission of liabilities artificially lowers the debt-to-income ratio, which is a key underwriting criterion used to determine eligibility for most mortgage loans. It is considered fraud because it allows the borrower to qualify for a loan which otherwise would not have been granted, or to qualify for a bigger loan than what would have been granted had the borrower's true debt been disclosed.

A good loan officer will want to know what FBB's current situation is and should ask about rent or mortgage payments on the current property.

FBB needs to have a long chat with the bank.


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## FarmboyBill

Well, she didn't ask, and since she likely has been on the banks end of hundreds of loans, and still is the head banker at the auxillary bank here, I suppose she knew all the questions she needed to ask.
Dang pics didn't come up.


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> Well, she didn't ask, and since she likely has been on the banks end of hundreds of loans, and still is the head banker at the auxillary bank here, I suppose she knew all the questions she needed to ask.
> Dang pics didn't come up.


 Good luck,:smack


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## Shygal

Is a private land contract considered a mortgage?

Will it go on someones credit rating if they stop paying and let the owner take the land back?


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## po boy

Shygal said:


> Is a private land contract considered a mortgage?
> 
> Will it go on someones credit rating if they stop paying and let the owner take the land back?


No, it is more or less a contract for deed.
In most cases this type of arrangement is not reported to credit reporting agencies. The property owner can request that the bureaus put the payment history in FBB's credit file.

In traditional lending, the lender will ask for at least 12 months history for rent, mortgage or a contract for deed. Since this contract is with an individual, the lender may ask for canceled checks to verify payment history.

A land loan does not fall under traditional lending and each lender has their own guidelines. 90% LTV is unusual for land loans.


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## fordy

Shygal said:


> Is a private land contract considered a mortgage?
> 
> Will it go on someones credit rating if they stop paying and let the owner take the land back?


 
................Private sellers of their own property who enter into a contract will often times take that contract to a local bank and ask the bank to function as a collection agent ! The bank , for a monthly fee records the monthly payments , sets up an escrow acct. to pay property taxes , sends out 1099 Int . forms showing how much mortgage interest was paid by the buyer and and Int. Income received by the seller . In this same scenario they will probably report such info to the credit bureau's as IF they were the Lien holder themselves . So , a Default by the buyer will be reported to the credit rating agencies . FBB , may or May NOT understand this relationship IF he thinks that his default will not affect his loan APP for the current property he wishes to purchase . , fordy


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## wr

Shygal said:


> Is a private land contract considered a mortgage?
> 
> Will it go on someones credit rating if they stop paying and let the owner take the land back?


It is my understanding that a private lender has the right and ability to apply a loan default to a person's credit rating. Private contractors do it quite often when homeowners refuse to pay bills for upgrades, repairs or renovations on homes. 

FBB, just because you didn't get asked if you we in default or defaulting on a loan doesn't mean you're in the clear. If your bank finds out later on, it could prove to them that you're a bad credit risk and your contract will allow the bank to call the loan under certain circumstances. If you used equipment to secure the loan, you will lose them too, unless you can resell before the date the loan is due. 

It is also a very poor idea to disclose information like this on a public forum. We have had other members who have done similar and someone has gone to the trouble of making a few phone calls, simply to cause them problems. I'd sure hate to see you end up in a mess simply because someone felt the need to complicate your life.


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## po boy

wr said:


> FBB, just because you didn't get asked if you we in default or defaulting on a loan doesn't mean you're in the clear.


 The application will ask.


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## wr

po boy said:


> The application will ask.


Yes and if you lie it gives them reason to call the loan.


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## Molly Mckee

I'm not sure that Bill understands there is a difference between the Banker saying "Yes, we make that kind of loan",and we will lend You the money for this land. If he hasn't gone through at least the pre approval process and gotten the approval in writing, the bank hs not agreed to loan him the money. That may be the reason he wasn't asked about his current house.


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## FarmboyBill

The banker said, (Yes we make that kind of loans)
The banker checked my credit rating and said (Yes we will maker you a loan either 80% or 90% of the purchase price)
I have been pre approved, BY TWO BANKS.


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## jwal10

I think that shows in the title of this tread. I don't see that he has anything....



















YET....James


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## FarmboyBill

Ya know. I don't understand it. I could go to page one, and see the VERY same things im seeing on this page. Is it cause people just like to hash and rehash ther same things over and over., OR is it that people just to go the last page and start from their on their information giving?
Me, Im hitting walls as I come to them. Yes, Im making plans. Im going to have to hit the ground running If I sign for the place at the first of the year.
If I don't, I don't. As I told the owners yesterday. IF the bank goes with it, you've already sold it.)


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## jwal10

Bill, When you explained all this before, the property had to have a ratio of land to house value. All the properties had a house on them. I don't see the value here with just land and no house for a 80% or 90% loan. Did something change?

....James


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## farmgal

When I got a home loan, part of the requirements was a letter from my current landlord, yet in my case, I was on a land contract purchasing another home. My letter stated I paid 3 months in advance, 3 months at a time. Never late. 

I also do not see a piece of property, tax assessed at a few thousand, getting a loan for 50,000$. 

Wish you lots of luck tho. Getting a loan is so hard in these times.


----------



## FarmboyBill

James, only thing that's changed is since theres NO places in my price bracket, and with what I want on them for sale, ive found this property without a house.
On this, another thing that's changed, is on this one, Im dealing with MY bank, instead of one that I found locally. YES, they make loans 70 miles away.


----------



## wr

FarmboyBill said:


> Ya know. I don't understand it. I could go to page one, and see the VERY same things im seeing on this page. Is it cause people just like to hash and rehash ther same things over and over., OR is it that people just to go the last page and start from their on their information giving?
> Me, Im hitting walls as I come to them. Yes, Im making plans. Im going to have to hit the ground running If I sign for the place at the first of the year.
> If I don't, I don't. As I told the owners yesterday. IF the bank goes with it, you've already sold it.)


It could be that people glance over or come into conversation late but it's a bit much to expect every member to hang on every tidbit offered on a 8 page thread or it could be that people are simply trying to prevent you from making a mistake that could cost you your land and equipment.


----------



## Shygal

wr said:


> It is also a very poor idea to disclose information like this on a public forum. We have had other members who have done similar and someone has gone to the trouble of making a few phone calls, simply to cause them problems. I'd sure hate to see you end up in a mess simply because someone felt the need to complicate your life.



Oh thats true, I didn't think of that. I remember someone that had that happen to them from here

And everyone would blame me for doing it if it happened, too, i suppose. But Biill has put enough info on here for anyone to find out his address, the property he is looking at, etc


----------



## Guest

Bill..you need to know these things.
such as:

A loan officer, or two or three of them can SAY.
"Yes. we make those kind of loans."
Yes, looking at your credit rating, I see nothing which would prevent us loaning you the money. Here's a letter stating that."

THEN when the rubber meets the road and you actually make out a FORMAL loan application, it goes through "underwriting" where many people discover that, NO, they will NOT loan you any money..especially when you answer questions such as where you've lived, how much rent/mortgage you've paid, who is the landlord please...show us your proof of income for the past two years..prove what it is now.where is the down payment coming from? etc. etc. etc..

It's not in your best interest to be ignorant about all of this..google it.."what's needed to buy land/house?" what paperwork? what's the process?? what"s underwriting??" how can I lose my earnest money??


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## jwal10

I still say, get to the bank and get going on the paperwork and find out where you stand at this point. Tell them everything, how you will need time to get down payment together. This will get you a head start on everything. No use wasting your time IF they will not go for it, OR what they will loan on that property....James


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## fordy

................Bill , you stated previously , that you were not making payments on your current loan ! My question is , are you going to use these funds to make a down payment on the property you are wanting to purchase along with selling your hay and other stuff ? , thanks , fordy


----------



## Shygal

bostonlesley said:


> ..especially when you answer questions such as where you've lived, how much rent/mortgage you've paid, who is the landlord please...show us your proof of income for the past two years..prove what it is now.where is the down payment coming from? etc. etc. etc..


Yes, I had to answer all of these things when I got my mortgage. They WILL want to know how youve been paying for where you live now, if you are current on rent /mortgage, they will want proof of that as well

Also proof of income, you will also need to realize that you WILL have to have private mortgage insurance tacked on to your mortgage payment, also most likely the homeowners insurance will be on your mortgage payment, as well as taxes.

My actual mortgage payment here is 541. After the tax, homeowners insurance and PMI is added, its up to 749. You aren't going to be paying merely the loan payment every month


----------



## cindilu

wr said:


> It could be that people glance over or come into conversation late but it's a bit much to expect every member to hang on every tidbit offered on a 8 page thread or it could be that people are simply trying to prevent you from making a mistake that could cost you your land and equipment.



People from here really have done that? To what gain? Why on earth would someone be that spiteful? Really? :stars:


----------



## Terri in WV

Bill, I haven't kept up on this thread, but have read the last page and want to stress a few points of what has been posted.



bostonlesley said:


> THEN when the rubber meets the road and you actually make out a FORMAL loan application, it goes through "underwriting" where many people discover that, NO, they will NOT loan you any money..especially when you answer questions such as where you've lived, how much rent/mortgage you've paid, who is the landlord please...show us your proof of income for the past two years..prove what it is now.where is the down payment coming from? etc. etc. etc..
> 
> It's not in your best interest to be ignorant about all of this..google it.."what's needed to buy land/house?" what paperwork? what's the process?? what"s underwriting??" how can I lose my earnest money??


As you know, I'm going through this process now. Like Lesley has pointed out above, I got all of my ducks in a row BEFORE I ever went for pre-approval. I generally don't go into a lot of detail, but I think it's important for you to understand how complicated this process is. And it has become extremely so, since the housing bubble popped 6-7 years ago. Until then, pretty much anyone could get a loan with decent credit and 20% down and a lot of times, even without that.

That being said, I have very good credit, no negative marks against it(late payments, over limits etc). My debt to income ratio is very low, even with two house payments. I have 20% down and am still having trouble, because one of my lines of income hasn't been for 2 years and I have to prove(again) that another line of income meets their terms. I'm within 2% of meeting their requirements without the income they're dismissing. 

Knowing what I'm going through now and your situation, I imagine you will probably have a tougher go of it than I am.




Shygal said:


> Also proof of income, you will also need to realize that you WILL have to have private mortgage insurance tacked on to your mortgage payment, also most likely the homeowners insurance will be on your mortgage payment, as well as taxes.


As Shy has pointed out, you most likely will have to pay PMI. The only way to avoid that is to have the 20% down payment. Also, she's pointed out about your insurance and taxes being tacked onto your payment. In your case, IF you are to get a loan, it would be in your best interest to have them attach the escrow account so that you're able to pay a little bit each month towards your ins. and taxes, instead of being hit with a big bill each year.

Bottom line, Bill, is start getting yourself prepared and informed to help the process along.


----------



## starjj

Trouble is Bill thinks he is smater than the average banker or loan officer. He will find out he isn't. They check EVERYTHING and you can't hide that your not making payments on where your living. Of course he won't listen to any advice either so we are really just talking among ourselves.


----------



## Guest

cindilu said:


> People from here really have done that? To what gain? Why on earth would someone be that spiteful? Really? :stars:


????? do what as spiteful?? I'm confusED..


----------



## starjj

bostonlesley said:


> ????? do what as spiteful?? I'm confusED..


 
Someone posted personal information on Families forum and talked about their church in less than flattering ways. Someone else took the information and passed it on to the church. At least that's the one I remember Enough was posted so that it was easy for someone to figure out where the person lived and the church he was posting about. I think there was another one but I don't remember details on that one


----------



## cindilu

Shygal said:


> Oh thats true, I didn't think of that. I remember someone that had that happen to them from here
> 
> And everyone would blame me for doing it if it happened, too, i suppose. But Biill has put enough info on here for anyone to find out his address, the property he is looking at, etc


 This Leslie, this is what I was referring to...


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## Guest

That's horrid!!! I can't imagine the heart of anyone who would do such a thing! Despicable ...


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## Shygal

Thats why Big Rockpile is no longer on the forums, someone did that to him


----------



## Shygal

Terri in WV said:


> I have 20% down and am still having trouble, because one of my lines of income hasn't been for 2 years and I have to prove(again) that another line of income meets their terms. I'm within 2% of meeting their requirements without the income they're dismissing.



Thats right, I couldn't get a mortgage until I had been at my job for 2 years, forgot about that


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## FarmboyBill

How Would home owners insurance work, when theres not a home on the property??


----------



## Terri in WV

You still have a structure, the barn. Also, with carrying a mortgage, you'll need liability to cover your butt if someone were to get hurt. 

And don't forget closing costs.


----------



## po boy

Couple things.

This is a raw land loan.
I have never heard of PMI on a raw land loan.
Doubt there is a requirement for insurance as there is nothing to insure. As for the barn, I am not sure an insurance company will insure just the barn.
A loan to value of 90% is hard to believe.


----------



## Terri

FarmboyBill said:


> How Would home owners insurance work, when theres not a home on the property??


 have no insurance on my 5 bare acres. On my home, yes, the bank requires it. But I do not have insurance on the land which is separate.


----------



## FarmboyBill

po boy, I got my pick, 80% with 6000 down and payments in the 360s, or 90% with 10 000 down and payments in the 400s


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## FarmboyBill

NOW, can you math gals tell me what 80 and 90% of $52,000 is?


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## frogmammy

10% of $52,000 is $5,200..take it from there.

I might add, that payments in the 360's and 400's is BEFORE the cute little add-ins. Our house payment was about $100 a month MORE than we thought it would be, due to add-ins (insurance, taxes, escrow) and we paid 27% down, therefore no PMI.

Your closing costs...I think those run about 1% of the total purchase/loan amount, plus a couple add-ins and are to be paid...well, at closing!

Mon


----------



## Echoesechos

Bill go with a list of questions etc to your bank you are dealing with. Ask those type of questions so you are preapred... You have gotten A LOT of information here, use it to your advantage. Prepare and educate yourself, don't get caught unaware. Being unprepared will cost you money and potentially lose you your dream property. 

Also throughout you have maintained the bank has stated they will loan you this money, do you have that in writing and for what length of time is it valid? Wouldn't want that to expire before you get close to signing on the dotted line...

Good luck.


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## FarmboyBill

I am dealing with a banker ive delt with for over 10yrs. I have helped her with trees that her hubby was afraid to tangle with.


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## starjj

FarmboyBill said:


> I am dealing with a banker ive delt with for over 10yrs. I have helped her with trees that her hubby was afraid to tangle with.


SO? She works for the BANK unless she owns the bank she has to follow the rules. WHY do you think your the exception to the rules?


----------



## FarmboyBill

JJ Did u write the rules? I didn't. U didn't, an d as u s ay, she didn't. BUT I bet she knows the rules better than we do, and im sure she knew them when she talked to me. What makes you think that she or I think that I am an exception to ?rules?


----------



## Molly Mckee

She probably doesn't know you haven't been paying for the place you have now. The underwriters may.

I would get everything in writing, the banker saying they can lend you the money does not mean out will go through underwriting. You don't want to give your current place up, move tons of equipment and find out you can't get a loan.


----------



## Oxankle

Bill: Those THORNLESS locust trees are black locust, excellent firewood and good posts.

If you want to use them for posts cut in winter, peel bark and season. They will take a staple when green but must be pre-drilled once dried out. For best seasoning, toss in a pond and let soak for two or three weeks before peeling and drying. 

Dept of Ag calls them 50-year posts. I have seen some that were in the ground from 1946 to 1987. 

If they are fast-grown with little heartwood don't bother with them. The whitewood rots right off underground. The local cedar is equally worthless.


----------



## d'vash

FarmboyBill said:


> NOW, can you math gals tell me what 80 and 90% of $52,000 is?


Of of off? Of, would be 80% = $41,600 where as 90% = $46,800

Off, would be $52,000 minus the 80% and 90% amounts (respectively) calculated above. So, 80% off of $52,000 is $10,400 and 90% off is $5,200.



frogmammy said:


> Your closing costs...I think those run about 1% of the total purchase/loan amount, plus a couple add-ins and are to be paid...well, at closing!


Perhaps things are different in the US, but here it's 3% of the asking price: 1% alone goes toward land transfer tax, then you have lawyer fees and what not. 3% is $1,560 

Also, I again, I don't know if this applies to the US, but over here when you purchase vacant land the asking price does not include 5% GST so you would have to add that on top of the asking price. That's another $2,600


----------



## FarmboyBill

er chuck, How would I know if they were fast grown or not??

New problem surfacing, mainly caused of the doubters who have caused me to trrass finances. FM says 10% of $52,000 is $5,200
On the 80% bank loan they would be financing $41,600
On the 90% bank loan, they would be financing $46,800.

That would mean I would have to come up with
$11,400 for my part on the 80% loan
$5,200 for my part on the 90% loan.

I need $6000 down for the 80% loan
I need $10,000 down for the 90% loan.

The 80% loan has monthly payments in the $360s
The 90% loan has monthly payments in the $400s. Per month each. $400 meaning right at about that amount.

WHICH IS THE BETTER DEAL?


----------



## Shygal

Bill, you are not going to be paying 360 or 400s.......you need to add probably 150 to each of those amounts that you will be needing to pay.

If you do the 80 percent loan, you will not need to get PMI. If you do the 90 percent loan you are going to be adding PMI to that 400 + dollars

Also I believe you have your down payments reversed, it would be 6000 for the 90 percent and 10000 for the 80 percent


----------



## Shygal

For your income range, you probably are going to have to go for the 80 percent loan. For the 90 you will probably end up paying around 600 a month


----------



## FarmboyBill

Sg, I would think that the downs would be as I described them, thinking that the more money they lent, ie 90, the more down they would want of my blood. The less they lent, the less I would need down. BUT Whaddia I know. I DO KNOW that im right on the monthly payments tho. That im 100% sure of. What is PMI?


----------



## po boy

It's a land loan. No PMI!

Some are confusing home loans with a land loan.
A land loan has no PMI.
Most likely the bank will close the loan without an attorney. 

FBB what interest rate and term are they telling you?


----------



## d'vash

Definitely put as much money as you can! If that's 20% down, then go for it! Not only will your monthly payments be lower, but you will also be paying less in interest in the long run and be able to pay it off faster.

Do you know how much your interest rate might be? If you put $11,400 down, you would have a mortgage of $40,600. At 2.99% interest fixed for 5 years with an amortization of 30 years, your monthly payment would be $170.55

Not sure what the interest rates are in your area - if they're closer to 5.99% (with the same specs as above) - you will be paying $241.25 monthly. 

I could only see you paying $600 monthly if you have an insanely high interest rate, you put very little into the down payment or they're only giving you a few years to pay it off.


----------



## starjj

FarmboyBill said:


> JJ Did u write the rules? I didn't. U didn't, an d as u s ay, she didn't. BUT I bet she knows the rules better than we do, and im sure she knew them when she talked to me. What makes you think that she or I think that I am an exception to ?rules?


 
Because of what you typed. Helping her with trees doesn't mean squat.

She still has to follow rules that are bank policy. Bankers talk but until you have some kind of definate comittment from them in WRITING it is still all just talk.


----------



## Shygal

po boy said:


> It's a land loan. No PMI!
> 
> Some are confusing home loans with a land loan.
> A land loan has no PMI.
> Most likely the bank will close the loan without an attorney.
> 
> FBB what interest rate and term are they telling you?



Then what happens if he puts a mobile home on it, or puts a mobile home on it BEFORE he gets the loan?


----------



## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> Sg, I would think that the downs would be as I described them, thinking that the more money they lent, ie 90, the more down they would want of my blood. The less they lent, the less I would need down. BUT Whaddia I know. I DO KNOW that im right on the monthly payments tho. That im 100% sure of. What is PMI?




This is what you said though 


FarmboyBill said:


> That would mean I would have to come up with
> $11,400 for my part on the 80% loan
> $5,200 for my part on the 90% loan.
> 
> I need $6000 down for the 80% loan
> I need $10,000 down for the 90% loan.



They are reversed, you have the high amount of down payment for the 80 then have it for the 90.

But what do you mean you need 11,400 for your part on the 80 percent loan, then say you need 6000 for the 80 percent loan?

And why say you need 11,400, then say you need 10000? You are forgetting closing costs, etc too


----------



## Molly Mckee

Most land loans require PMI. It has nothing to do with a house, it protects the bank if you default. I would try to do the 80% loan so I had smaller payments and no PMI. It will make qualifying easier as well. Don't forget there are lots of new federal regulations banks have to follow now. I don't know how they will effect a land loan, or in your case a land and buildings loan, without a house.


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> Then what happens if he puts a mobile home on it, or puts a mobile home on it BEFORE he gets the loan?


 If he puts a Mobile Home on it after he buys it, he does not have to insure it.
If he does it before he closes, it depends on if it is included in the appraised value. It would be foolish to put it there before he buys the land.


----------



## po boy

Molly Mckee said:


> Most land loans require PMI. It has nothing to do with a house, it protects the bank if you default. I would try to do the 80% loan so I had smaller payments and no PMI. It will make qualifying easier as well. Don't forget there are lots of new federal regulations banks have to follow now. I don't know how they will effect a land loan, or in your case a land and buildings loan, without a house.


 Most land loans are well under 80% LTV.

I am not aware of any PMI company that will do PMI on raw land. 
Can you name one?


----------



## frogmammy

po boy said:


> Most land loans are well under 80% LTV.
> 
> I am not aware of any PMI company that will do PMI on raw land.
> Can you name one?


Does it count if they don't live in GEORGIA like you do?

Mon


----------



## po boy

frogmammy said:


> Does it count if they don't live in GEORGIA like you do?
> 
> Mon


Why would location matter? PMI companies are national.

Can you name one?

Private Mortgage Insurance for Land Loans

Unlike most residential Loans ( Fannie, Freddie, FHA, VA and Usda) land loans do not have set guidelines. They are set by the individual banks/Lenders.


----------



## Lazy J

WOW!! It sounds like FBB needs an advocate to help him.


----------



## Shygal

po boy said:


> Most land loans are well under 80% LTV.
> 
> I am not aware of any PMI company that will do PMI on raw land.
> Can you name one?



It's not raw land, its an improved acreage. It has structures on it.


----------



## Shygal

Bill I think you need to ask your bank if they require PMI and hazard insurance on the loan.
Didn't you say that this is in a flood plain?


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> It's not raw land, its an improved acreage. It has structures on it.


 PMI will not insure raw land or raw land with structures on it unless there is a house on the property.


----------



## Shygal

po boy said:


> PMI will not insure raw land or raw land with structures on it unless there is a house on the property.



You know, I believe you are confusing PMI with homeowners insurance.

PMI does NOT insure the land , it insures your loan! Private Mortgage Insurance. The bank has you get it in case you default on the loan, it insures their investment, NOT the land or structures.

And he would need hazard insurance if there is no home on the land.


----------



## Shygal

po boy said:


> It's a land loan. No PMI!
> 
> Some are confusing home loans with a land loan.
> A land loan has no PMI.
> Most likely the bank will close the loan without an attorney.



Um no a bank will NOT close the loan without an attorney.


----------



## Classof66

I have banked for years at a friendly little country agricultural bank. Everyone knows me and my children. Still, since 911 regulations have really tightened. I needed a cashiers check one day, I had cash money to pay for it, and went to a local bank near my work, not one I have accounts at, and could not buy the money order as I am not a customer. I mentioned this to my banker and she said that is right. The auditors go through their records with a fine tooth comb. The small banks in my area, maybe 30 years ago, very seldom had a foreclosure, now the newspaper is full of them. Of course, people bought and built more modest structures back then too and the job market was much better.

I do know of a downstate bank that made a small, but risky loan, and is now under supervision. In this case, I don't blame the Feds either.


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> You know, I believe you are confusing PMI with homeowners insurance.
> 
> PMI does NOT insure the land , it insures your loan! Private Mortgage Insurance. The bank has you get it in case you default on the loan, it insures their investment, NOT the land or structures.
> 
> And he would need hazard insurance if there is no home on the land.


Since I wrote loans for 40 years, owned a mortgage company for the last 15 years, wrote 100's of million dollars in HOME loans with PMI and Home Owners, I think I understand the difference.

NO company writes PMI on Land.


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> Um no a bank will NOT close the loan without an attorney.


 I just got one for $165,000 and closed in the bankers office without an attorney! A secretary closed it!!


----------



## Shygal

Bill, these loans arent balloon payments are they? Land loans are usually for 10 years, your payments seem rather low


----------



## Shygal

po boy said:


> Since I wrote loans for 40 years, owned a mortgage company for the last 15 years, wrote 100's of million dollars in HOME loans with PMI and Home Owners, I think I understand the difference.
> 
> NO company writes PMI on Land.



Its not insurance on the LAND. I would think you would know that with all your sudden experience.

If you know the difference, why do you keep saying PMI insures the land and structures, when it does NOT.


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> Its not insurance on the LAND. I would think you would know that with all your sudden experience.
> 
> If you know the difference, why do you keep saying PMI insures the land and structures, when it does NOT.


 LOL

Where did I say that?
40 years isn't sudden.


----------



## farmgal

po boy said:


> PMI will not insure raw land or raw land with structures on it unless there is a house on the property.


I had a pmi on my first piece of land. It has nothing to do with house or just land. Its insurance on the mortgage. So, if Bill defaults, they are backed by the mortgage insurance company. I think you dont see pmi on land because banks dont usually lend on just land without 20% down, which therefor, no PMI needed. 

If Bill put that trailer on there before the loan, that may open a whole ball of wax. He may need a home inspection etc. Even if he already owns it. My friend had an older trailer on their property, they used to rent out. When they sold the property, the next lender demanded it be removed, as it was too old, posed a hazard and is negative to the property value. 

We are all just tossing around theories. Until Bill hires a lawyer, applies for the actual loan, we dont know beans...lol


----------



## po boy

farmgal said:


> I had a pmi on my first piece of land. It has nothing to do with house or just land. Its insurance on the mortgage. So, if Bill defaults, they are backed by the mortgage insurance company. I think you dont see pmi on land because banks dont usually lend on just land without 20% down, which therefor, no PMI needed.
> 
> If Bill put that trailer on there before the loan, that may open a whole ball of wax. He may need a home inspection etc. Even if he already owns it. My friend had an older trailer on their property, they used to rent out. When they sold the property, the next lender demanded it be removed, as it was too old, posed a hazard and is negative to the property value.
> 
> We are all just tossing around theories. Until Bill hires a lawyer, applies for the actual loan, we dont know beans...lol


 When was that?
Who was the company?
Look at all the PMI company guidelines. You'll see they all refer to residential lending.


The problem with getting PMI on raw land loans is that the guidelines are not uniform and PMI underwrite to uniform guidelines such as Fannie, Freddie etc


----------



## Shygal

po boy said:


> LOL
> 
> Where did I say that?
> 40 years isn't sudden.



Where did you say that? Right here.



po boy said:


> *PMI will not insure raw land or raw land with structures on it * unless there is a house on the property.


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> Where did you say that? Right here.


_*PMI will not insure raw land LOANS or raw land LOANS with structures on it *unless there is a house on the property._

_There you go._


----------



## farmgal

po boy said:


> _*PMI will not insure raw land LOANS or raw land LOANS with structures on it *unless there is a house on the property._
> 
> _There you go._


Why are you screaming? My mortgage company was PNC. It was 15 years ago. the second piece of land I didnt put 20% down, but due to me already owning another home, I didnt need PMI. 

You are saying no loans of land require PMI. When there are sooo many different types of loans available. And everyone has their own set of circumstances which will determine what is required. So no one knows what he will need, until he goes forward. He mentioned a VA loan. But does VA loan on just land? who knows...

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-land-mortgage.htm 
https://www.pncmortgage.com/Glossary_of_Terms.aspx

According to the second site, its states that if the person gets a VA loan, they have their own mortgage insurance backed by the VA. So even tho, they dont require PMI, the loan is still insured.


----------



## po boy

farmgal said:


> Why are you screaming? My mortgage company was PNC. It was 15 years ago. the second piece of land I didnt put 20% down, but due to me already owning another home, I didnt need PMI.
> 
> You are saying no loans of land require PMI. When there are sooo many different types of loans available. And everyone has their own set of circumstances which will determine what is required. So no one knows what he will need, until he goes forward. He mentioned a VA loan. But does VA loan on just land? who knows...
> 
> http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-land-mortgage.htm
> https://www.pncmortgage.com/Glossary_of_Terms.aspx
> 
> According to the second site, its states that if the person gets a VA loan, they have their own mortgage insurance backed by the VA. So even tho, they dont require PMI, the loan is still insured.


 Sorry, that was meant for Shygal..
No VA will not lend on land. VA has an upfront funding fee instead of PMI.

That loan 15 years ago may have been a self insured type deal where they charged the PMI fee and kept the fee. In other words no third party PMI company involved. Just before the crash some mortgage companies were self insuring some of their loans with a higher rate.

Not sure about the wisegeek guy..

Again, I did not scream at you and was in response to Shygal.


----------



## Guest

No need to "scream" at anyone here...just say'in...


----------



## Terri

Bill's bank will do what Bill's bank will do: we will all have to wait until winter to find out.


----------



## starjj

13 pages of talking to a brick wall seems kind of silly IMO.


----------



## po boy

bostonlesley said:


> No need to "scream" at anyone here...just say'in...


 You are correct and I apologize.


----------



## FarmboyBill

#1 JJ Id say 13 pages IF they had been put in HT instead of here would have likely helped people trying or thinking of getting a place of their own. I think some excellent advice has been givin, both because of the giver having accurate knowledge as best as possible to MY situation, and by those who tho NOT having such information STILL had good information for someone considering their own circumstances to sift through all this info for their own help and value.

SG It sits NEXT to flood ground. There is No way water could rise the 40/50 feet from where it is right now to where the place/bldgs. sit.

Also, I was saying, I would have to come up with both the 6g and/or the 10G that the bank wants for either/or their loans. PLUS come up with the 10/20% that the bank dosent cover. Ill admit now, that's gonna put a serious crimp in finances.


----------



## Terri in WV

FarmboyBill said:


> Also, I was saying, I would have to come up with both the 6g and/or the 10G that the bank wants for either/or their loans. PLUS come up with the 10/20% that the bank dosent cover. Ill admit now, that's gonna put a serious crimp in finances.



Okay, Bill. The bank is not going to want that money plus.

The land is $52,000.

The 80% loan means that you will put 20% down, which is $10,400 and will owe the bank $41,600. You will also have to pay closing costs.

The 90% loan meant that you will put 10% down, which is $5,200 and will owe the bank $46,800. You will also have to pay closing costs.

IF you get to the point of buying, your best bet is to put down as much as you can. You will have less of a payment that way.



I don't know how any of us can make it any simpler for you to understand the money side of it.

80% loan=20% down=$10,400+closing costs

90% loan=10% down=$5,200+closing costs


----------



## wr

bostonlesley said:


> That's horrid!!! I can't imagine the heart of anyone who would do such a thing! Despicable ...


Shygal mentioned Big Rockpile but there have been others too that have been affected by people causing problems for others. There is seldom anything concrete but strong indications that people meddled and have had problems with people's children and personal lives based on things they have said here. It isn't a closed forum, outsiders can view it so maybe it isn't one of our own but it's best to remember that it is a very poor idea to post too much personal information on the internet.


----------



## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> Also, I was saying, I would have to come up with both the 6g and/or the 10G that the bank wants for either/or their loans. PLUS come up with the 10/20% that the bank dosent cover. Ill admit now, that's gonna put a serious crimp in finances.



Bill, you don't need both, like Terri just said. You need either the 6g or the 10 g. That IS the 10/20%


----------



## fordy

.................FBB , throughout this soap opera discussion there is a simple solution , really it seems to me.................Find a seller who will carry the note for you instead of A , or THE , Bank ! The simple fact IS , you don't have the down payment for 10 acres of land that costs $5,000 an acre ! So , you're going to have to LOWER the number of acres by 4 or so , to bring the down payment within the Range you can afford to make . 
..................Once you have the land purchased , then build your life around that Number of acres ! , fordy


----------



## starjj

fordy said:


> .................FBB , throughout this soap opera discussion there is a simple solution , really it seems to me.................Find a seller who will carry the note for you instead of A , or THE , Bank ! The simple fact IS , you don't have the down payment for 10 acres of land that costs $5,000 an acre ! So , you're going to have to LOWER the number of acres by 4 or so , to bring the down payment within the Range you can afford to make .
> ..................Once you have the land purchased , then build your life around that Number of acres ! , fordy


 
Fordy, simple but he won't do. He already has an seller note that he is not paying on and he WON'T buy less than 10 acres because that he what he wants for what he wants to do with it. Simple but then not. 
Me I would say I can't afford this and settle for what I could manage without risking losing what I have done again but that is me.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Fordy/jj. I don't understand how to make you understand d that theres NO plethoria of places with the acrages I want, IN THE SPAPE I WANT, close to my kids like I want and within the price range I can afford.
Ive got 2 different realitors from 2 different towns in the area who sent me weekly notices of whats popped up, and whats available. Ones a 10 in a flood zone. 62Gs
3 are wooded, and here, wooded property usually also means rocky property.
one or 2 are as far away from my kids nearly as I am now.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Then Terry, what your saying is,
The 80% and 90% are the amounts the bank will loan ON the appraised price
NOT
The 80% and 90% are the amounts the bank will loan OF/against the appraised price?


----------



## FarmboyBill

The agents don't know of this place as the owners never listed it.


----------



## FarmboyBill

BUT AGAIN TERRI, The bank will loan only up to the appraised price, Meaning that, I will STILL have to cough up the difference IF they wont come down any/some, in a way im in the same situation of having to come up with the banks 6 or 10Gs,whichever, AND having to come up with the difference between the appraisal and the purchase price the owners want.


----------



## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> Fordy/jj. I don't understand how to make you understand d that theres NO plethoria of places with the acrages I want, IN THE SPAPE I WANT, close to my kids like I want and within the price range I can afford.
> Ive got 2 different realitors from 2 different towns in the area who sent me weekly notices of whats popped up, and whats available. Ones a 10 in a flood zone. 62Gs
> 3 are wooded, and here, wooded property usually also means rocky property.
> one or 2 are as far away from my kids nearly as I am now.


.................Well , then , I'd make UP a Simple Flyer , with all info , print off 50 copies or so and put them in every location around the general area ! I Promise you , Someone , WILL , respond to that flyer ! It's just a matter of time . , fordy:grumble:


----------



## FarmboyBill

Heres some pics


----------



## FarmboyBill

One pic shows what looks to me to have been an old hand dug rock well. Grounds even with the outside of it. Another shows a catapa tree. It has 10in long beans on irt. Its supposed to have worms on it that are ideal for fish bait. 
Heres some more


----------



## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> Then Terry, what your saying is,
> The 80% and 90% are the amounts the bank will loan ON the appraised price
> NOT
> The 80% and 90% are the amounts the bank will loan OF/against the appraised price?


Bill, you are saying the same thing.
The loan will be based on the lesser of the appraised value and purchase price.

ETA: What rate and term is the bank offering?
Is it fully amortized?


----------



## FarmboyBill

and some more


----------



## FarmboyBill

That's all folks. Sorry. Cause my camera acted like it didn't put one set of pics on the chip I went out and shot again. Turns out that they were on the chip, so in some cases I got 2 sets of pics. Sorry.


----------



## Guest

A few things I wonder about concerning this whole thread . Bill , do you believe that sneaking out in the middle of the night & leaving your integrity & someone who you gave your word to in the lurch for all the money you owe them is the right thing to do ? This is what I have gathered you plan to do by reading this thread . If I'm mistaken please accept my apologies .
2nd , Why would you even consider paying $5,200 an acre for property that seems to be worth $2,000 to $3,000 an acre ?
I think you need a certified appraisal of the property so you can work within the guidelines of what the property is really worth . I believe the loaning institution will make or not make a loan based on the appraised value of the property .
Once again I apologize if you are leaving your current property on the up & up .


----------



## Terri in WV

FarmboyBill said:


> BUT AGAIN TERRI, The bank will loan only up to the appraised price, Meaning that, I will STILL have to cough up the difference IF they wont come down any/some, in a way im in the same situation of having to come up with the banks 6 or 10Gs,whichever, AND having to come up with the difference between the appraisal and the purchase price the owners want.


If it doesn't appraise for what they are asking, you ask them to come down. If they don't, then continue to look for other properties. You will have to pay for the appraisal, in my state it's $420.

I agree with fordy, you can't always get what you want, but you may just find that you can get what you need.  Sometimes one has to compromise when reality becomes involved.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Hill Billy. I got behind when I was paying child support to 2 diffwerent women. The intrest rate is such that it goes onto the unpaid balance monthly making what I owe now to be likely around 100Gs. My contract is up here in a few years, and surely he will take the place back as I havew NO way to repay that. I live around 70 miles from my son and daughter who only come here round once a year. I have to go see them IF I want company. I have NO relation here who would be of help to me in my getting older age. No one to help me with my farming. 
The housing mkt is as low as its going to get, and is rising. I am not going to want to move top another place in another 10yrs or so. I do want to move near my kids so I can see them and my Grandkids on a simi regular basis, and also get help from them, both on the farm, and medical as my DD is a in house care giver.
That's where Im at.


----------



## FarmboyBill

If I remember it in a week and 2 Wednesdays when I go to my bank for my monthly corrections to my checks Ill ask her what the appraisel fee is.
Nah, better yet, Ill call the bank today. Be right back. Nope. Forgot its Sat.


----------



## Terri in WV

Looks like a land appraisal will cost you in the neighborhood of $375. http://www.coxappraisalservices.com/services.nxg


----------



## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> BUT AGAIN TERRI, The bank will loan only up to the appraised price, Meaning that, I will STILL have to cough up the difference IF they wont come down any/some, in a way im in the same situation of having to come up with the banks 6 or 10Gs,whichever, AND having to come up with the difference between the appraisal and the purchase price the owners want.



NO, it doesnt WORK that way. Bill you seriously need someone that knows what they are doing , like a lawyer

You dont pay the difference between the appraised price and what the owners want. You pay what the owners want and you get a loan for that amount, THEN you pay the down payment


----------



## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> Hill Billy. I got behind when I was paying child support to 2 diffwerent women. The intrest rate is such that it goes onto the unpaid balance monthly making what I owe now to be likely around 100Gs. My contract is up here in a few years, and surely he will take the place back as I havew NO way to repay that. I live around 70 miles from my son and daughter who only come here round once a year. I have to go see them IF I want company. I have NO relation here who would be of help to me in my getting older age. No one to help me with my farming.
> The housing mkt is as low as its going to get, and is rising. I am not going to want to move top another place in another 10yrs or so. I do want to move near my kids so I can see them and my Grandkids on a simi regular basis, and also get help from them, both on the farm, and medical as my DD is a in house care giver.
> That's where Im at.


Suppose he takes you to court for defaulting on the loan? 
How long havent you paid your payments for??


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> NO, it doesnt WORK that way. Bill you seriously need someone that knows what they are doing , like a lawyer
> 
> You dont pay the difference between the appraised price and what the owners want. You pay what the owners want and you get a loan for that amount, THEN you pay the down payment


What Bill is saying is he is willing to pay more than the appraised value. It happens a lot.

When a loan is involved, the lender will base the loan on the appraised value and the buyer/borrower will have to make a down payment based on the appraised value plus the difference in appraised value and sales price. It appears that is what he is saying and willing to do......

I think the purchase price is 52,000. Assume it appraises for $45,000 and bill gets a 90% loan.
10% of 45,000 is $4,500
Difference in appraisal and sales price is 52-45k= $7,000
Bill needs to scrounge up $11,500 plus cost to close

NOT A WISE DECISION, but it's his to make


----------



## Shygal

I dont think the place has even been appraised


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## po boy

Shygal said:


> I dont think the place has even been appraised


 Nor do I


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## FarmboyBill

It hasn't.
I make 1/2 payments every month. and have for a couple years.

U got what im saying PB. Ill try to get the owners down to $50, but Ill also try to meet the difference between whatever they end up wanting and the appraised value. TRY. that aint in concrete that I WILL do it.


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## po boy

Bill, I do believe it will appraise a lot less than $45,000. I know u looked at a lot of land out there. Make sure your contract is subject to appraisal and loan approval.
Look here sort that from low to high if you need to


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## FarmboyBill

II think it will too. THEY said it had appraised by the last guy trying to get it for $45. IF IT DOSENT< I can just say, Well, I said I would buy it, going on YOUR word that it HAD appraised for $5 a while back. It dosent now. Either you will have to come down some, as I will and can only meet the appraised value (Ill say that if its way low. If its close, I wont).Ill say, You said the appraised value was 45. I would go some beyond that by a couple thousand, but that's the best I can do.
If they don't cave in some, I guess they'll let the next fellow try for it.
If it dosent go through, Ill hunker down here till next spring and try again somewhere else.


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> It hasn't.
> I make 1/2 payments every month. and have for a couple years.
> 
> U got what im saying PB. Ill try to get the owners down to $50, but Ill also try to meet the difference between whatever they end up wanting and the appraised value. TRY. that aint in concrete that I WILL do it.



Bill, what happens if it appraises for 30000? You arent going to come up with 20000$ PLUS the down payment on the loan

What is the original asking price now?


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> II think it will too. THEY said it had appraised by the last guy trying to get it for $45. IF IT DOSENT< I can just say, Well, I said I would buy it, going on YOUR word that it HAD appraised for $5 a while back. It dosent now. Either you will have to come down some, as I will and can only meet the appraised value (Ill say that if its way low. If its close, I wont).Ill say, You said the appraised value was 45. I would go some beyond that by a couple thousand, but that's the best I can do.
> If they don't cave in some, I guess they'll let the next fellow try for it.
> If it dosent go through, Ill hunker down here till next spring and try again somewhere else.


 So, it has appraised for $45K in the past. 
Good Luck


----------



## starjj

FarmboyBill said:


> Fordy/jj. I don't understand how to make you understand d that theres NO plethoria of places with the acrages I want, IN THE SPAPE I WANT, close to my kids like I want and within the price range I can afford.
> Ive got 2 different realitors from 2 different towns in the area who sent me weekly notices of whats popped up, and whats available. Ones a 10 in a flood zone. 62Gs
> 3 are wooded, and here, wooded property usually also means rocky property.
> one or 2 are as far away from my kids nearly as I am now.


And your not listening to what was said (surprise surprise). What was said is you can't afford what you can't afford. You won't settle for less than you want (which is what I told Fordy). He suggested LESS acreage that you could easily afford.


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## Shygal

Bill, dont go by what THEY said it was appraised for. They are trying to make money.

You need a current appraisal before you do ANYTHING else.


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> II think it will too. THEY said it had appraised by the last guy trying to get it for $45. IF IT DOSENT< I can just say, Well, I said I would buy it, going on YOUR word that it HAD appraised for $5 a while back. It dosent now. Either you will have to come down some, as I will and can only meet the appraised value (Ill say that if its way low. If its close, I wont).Ill say, You said the appraised value was 45. I would go some beyond that by a couple thousand, but that's the best I can do.
> If they don't cave in some, I guess they'll let the next fellow try for it.
> If it dosent go through, Ill hunker down here till next spring and try again somewhere else.


 Bill, if I were set on buying the place, like u are, I would negotiate the purchase price down as low as I could and do the contract subject to appraisal and loan approval. If it comes in low, you have room to negotiate the price down. These folks have been trying to sell for a while it appears. I bet they will take less.

In RESIDENTIAL lending most lenders will not take an appraisal obtained by the borrower. I think you would be wasting money. Cover yourself in the contract.


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## FarmboyBill

To the both of you, I think were hitting the same rug draped over the close line, but from different sides. I am in agreement with exactly what you both are saying, and understand you perfectly. I guess how Im saying the same thing nearly isn't registering cause of my faulty rhetoric.

PB After I get the appriasel amount, I will take it to them and say this is what I can do. As you have said, its likely to be way lower than 52Gs. If they dont want to come some to meet me , as long as the gap isn't over 40G in which id go 5G. If its way less than say 40 I know they wouldn't drop that low, and theres no use in purseuing it.

SG Im only relating what they told me about the prior appraisel for what it aint worth. Im not going by anything until after Oct when I give the bank their contract and the bank gives me there appraisel report.


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> there appraisel report.


 That's it!


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## Brighton

po boy said:


> What Bill is saying is he is willing to pay more than the appraised value. It happens a lot.
> 
> When a loan is involved, the lender will base the loan on the appraised value and the buyer/borrower will have to make a down payment based on the appraised value plus the difference in appraised value and sales price. It appears that is what he is saying and willing to do......
> 
> I think the purchase price is 52,000. Assume it appraises for $45,000 and bill gets a 90% loan.
> 10% of 45,000 is $4,500
> Difference in appraisal and sales price is 52-45k= $7,000
> Bill needs to scrounge up $11,500 plus cost to close
> 
> NOT A WISE DECISION, but it's his to make


Maybe Bill should call you for the loan?


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## Lazy J

Shygal said:


> ...... Bill you seriously need someone that knows what they are doing , like a lawyer
> .........


After reading all o FBB replies it is quite obvious that he has no clue what he is doing with this property. He needs some help, someone that will force him to understand what needs to take place.

Personally I am appalled at the lack of character exposed in this thread.


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## Terri in WV

Bill, have you ever entertained the thought of getting a little house on a couple of acres and renting out some acreage to putter around on? An arrangement like that would give you everything you want and down the road when you're not able to maintain 10 acres, you'd still have a bit of dirt to putter around on.


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## FarmboyBill

Whaddia you think I can get outa whats in the pics, along with around 60 4X5 haygrazer/Sorgum Sudan grass bales of hay, 4 pieces of walking horse machinery, 2 riding horse plows, a 1 bottom and a 2 bottom, 2 tractor steelo wheel plows, a 1 b ottom and a 2 bottom, a 2 row horse corn planter, and a EARLY 2 row tractor corn planter, a horse grader, and a Texas Terricer, A 14 X 40 storage bldg., a 14 X 24 storage bldg., and if need be, a 12 X 36 storage bldg.


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## frogmammy

I like the truck.

Mon


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## po boy

Bill, I would think you could get a good price on that stuff. Have you attempted to sell it?


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## Shygal

Bill, what are you going to LIVE in if you get this place?


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## FarmboyBill

Yes, I had the truck at 10Gs 2 mos ago, lowered it to 9 last month and will lower it to 8 this month, and proceed down ward. The JD I had a 15 and have been dropping a hundred a month. Same with the garden tractor. The truck and tractor are both 1934. The JD is a 39.

SG, Well theres the vacent trailer the lady said I could have for the hauling. My DD thinks, IF youll look closly at the inside of the barn, theres 2 bays. One is/was for a horse, which I would make into a cow parlor for awhile maybe. The other one was for chickens, or some of bird, as its screened on the inside. My DD thinks it could be made to last through winter. Theres also the A roof shed. Its round bout 10 X 18. I could winter out in it.


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## FarmboyBill

IF winter got REALLY BAD, I could stay at DDs 9 miles away, OR if the GKs drove me nuts, at Xs 20 some miles away.


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## FarmboyBill

Teerri, _t would be near impossible to rent here in this part of Okla#1. The likely hood of finding somebody to rent PERIOD 5 or 10 acres would be RARE. Most acreage rented or sold runs in the minimum of 100 acres._
_ #2 IF I didn't find a place to rent close to home, I would run up a good sized gas bill going to and from there._
_#3 Some of my implements I couldn't take onto an open road. Disc, Harrow, Rotery Hoe, _
_#4 People here don't farm. They don't want to take a valuable pasture that they can hay either as pasture OR hay, and have it plowed up, After the harvest, then the furrows would still be there. With no cultivation the next year, the weeds would get a start with the grass that had been thick, would be thinner._


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> IF youll look closly at the inside of the barn, theres 2 bays. One is/was for a horse, which I would make into a cow parlor for awhile maybe. The other one was for chickens, or some of bird, as its screened on the inside. My DD thinks it could be made to last through winter. Theres also the A roof shed. Its round bout 10 X 18. I could winter out in it.



And what will you do for cooking, washing up, bathroom facilities, etc?


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## FarmboyBill

The same as I do here. Micro wave, or stove top, setting up my 2 stock tanks at the barn roofs edge to collect water from the gutters, and take my outhouse with me. When I drill a well, that will supply water. When I get a trailer the water the well supplies will be tapped into the already existing water lines, which will have a cut off valve at the house leading to the rural water line. The trailer will supply both bath and toilet facilities using the water plumbed to it from the well.


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## COSunflower

Bill, if you can get a loan for NEW property, couldn't you get a loan to pay back some of the money that you owe the person of the land that you are already buying? As a Christian, which I thought that you were (still go to church?), I wouldn't think you would approve of cheating someone that you already had a long time deal with. Maybe you are bored of that property but that is not the owners fault. You wanted it at one time and they were gracious enough to let you have it with nothing down and just a verbal agreement? This whole thing smacks of bad karma!!! Don't count on your kids and grandkids helping you fulfill YOUR farming dreams - even if they think it would be fun NOW...later on when they are living their OWN lives, they will NOT have time to farm for YOU. Your daughter may not choose to care for you in your old age either. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Sell a bunch of that machinery and pay it to the person that you owe then get a loan to pay back what is left owing. You will feel much better about yourself. You could sell the machinery and use the $$$ to get some water at the place where you are NOW and drag that mobile onto the existing property too. Use your time, effort and money on the place that you already have!!!


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## farmgal

FarmboyBill said:


> Yes, I had the truck at 10Gs 2 mos ago, lowered it to 9 last month and will lower it to 8 this month, and proceed down ward. The JD I had a 15 and have been dropping a hundred a month. Same with the garden tractor. The truck and tractor are both 1934. The JD is a 39.
> 
> The truck is worth the price of scrap metal. The JD tractor, in perfect condition, at a dealership, is $3500. It looks to need a tire too. Its hard enough these days to sell a tractor, let alone for 5x's the valued price. Looks like you have a lot of scrap metal at that place. Maybe you should clean it up and make some cash that way. Scrap is high here.
> 
> Cosunflower is right, you will be creating bad Karma by avoiding responsibilities. But its your choice. :lookout:


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## po boy

Bill, Who built the truck, I can't read the name


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## FarmboyBill

White


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## FarmboyBill

girls the way I choose to look at it, is that im giving the owner of this property the chance to make around $75000 on it again by REselling it to someone else.


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## Brighton

Most women on this board and commenting on your posts are not GIRLS, we are women, grown women who own our own land.


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## FarmboyBill

Since I don't know what cribbing means in use with bottle jacks, AND since I do know that in lowering the buildings I will have to watch out for them shifting to the sides, I will be mindful of that. Ill also have lots of help when I do it. I can put a tractor up against the outsider sides of the buildings so that the tires would keep it from falling to that side, making only the inside sides vulnerable to falling that way. IF I jack it down with the jack furtherst to the inside higher than the other 2, (I have one already), it will have a tendency to want to fall towards the tractor. But Ill have someone with a brace following it down from the inside side. Its around about 30in high on the N end. around 6in on the S end.


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## FarmboyBill

Pardon the expression ladies.


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## Guest

FarmboyBill said:


> girls the way I choose to look at it, is that im giving the owner of this property the chance to make around $75000 on it again by REselling it to someone else.


then why sneak off like a thief in the night???????????


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## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> Since I don't know what cribbing means in use with bottle jacks, AND since I do know that in lowering the buildings I will have to watch out for them shifting to the sides, I will be mindful of that. Ill also have lots of help when I do it. I can put a tractor up against the outsider sides of the buildings so that the tires would keep it from falling to that side, making only the inside sides vulnerable to falling that way. IF I jack it down with the jack furtherst to the inside higher than the other 2, (I have one already), it will have a tendency to want to fall towards the tractor. But Ill have someone with a brace following it down from the inside side. Its around about 30in high on the N end. around 6in on the S end.


 
.................cribbing is used where they jack up an old house , they stack heavy blocks of wood on all corners until they get it high enough so that they can , slide those big steel Ibeams under the structure and then raise it further with a tandem axle truck with probably a 40 ton Tulsa winch on gin poles for road transport ! , fordy


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## FarmboyBill

Lesley, it will take me a month to (sneak) out of here, IF IM LUCKY. Tho I don't mind giving up any kind of possession so that he can resell it and again make $75000. Im not making anything out of the deal, BUT I don't want to LOSE anything out of it either.

Fordy. Im thinking of lowering the high side to the ground. BUT before I do, Im going to run a cable through the runners that comes out from under the house so that I can hook it onto a tractor, and pull them into the driveway, whichever the buyer wants. That will make it easier for them to load. ill do that after it/they are fully on the ground


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## Terri in WV

Bill, I'm worried about your situation. Have you thought about what you're going to do if you don't get a loan?


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## Molly Mckee

I thought you said you owed about $100,000.00 on the place you are living on. Selling it for $75,000.00 isn't much of a deal for the guy you bought the place from.


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## wr

I feel this is a disaster in the making and FBB is going to live with some unfortunate consequences.


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## starjj

FarmboyBill said:


> girls the way I choose to look at it, is that im giving the owner of this property the chance to make around $75000 on it again by REselling it to someone else.


 
We can all justify bad behavior. Guess it is between you and God.


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## FarmboyBill

Wr, IF I sold EVERYT HING here 6 times, I couldn't make up what is likely owed on this plac e. So, If I sold everything, in 7 yrs he would still come and take the place and resell it for $75 Gs. How unfortunate would my circumstances be then???????????

Molly, I bought it for $40.000 at 8% interest. That interest has climbed uip in figures cause of the unpaid payments to be likely around $100.000. When the owner takes it back, he will AGAIN sell it for $40,000, 20 acres, and likely make $75,000 off of it off of the next guy.
Terri., Nope. Although I have another plan which could fall through, IF it already hasn't, its not one im crazy about in the least. BUT, I don't worry about things. God may or may not like what I do, but I know that He LOVES me, and I know that IF this falls through he will take care of me. As He told me once in the Army. (Only Believe). Worked then, has worked all these years since then.


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## starjj

wr said:


> I feel this is a disaster in the making and FBB is going to live with some unfortunate consequences.


Yep I agree 100 percent but tell that to a brick wall and you'll get the same response.


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## starjj

Ok say I go out and murder someone. God doesn't like my behavior but he loves me. Does that make it right to do? Definately thread drift.


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## FarmboyBill

Didn't say it made it right did I???????????????????????????????????


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## fordy

Molly Mckee said:


> I thought you said you owed about $100,000.00 on the place you are living on. Selling it for $75,000.00 isn't much of a deal for the guy you bought the place from.


.............But , there's more to this story , normally , when we purchase a piece of property , the deed is recorded in our name and the lien is recorded as well . When , the buyer sells the property the net profit from the transaction goes to the buyer and the lien is paid off and a new lien is recorded in the name of the new buyer . 
.............With Bill , when the owner sells the property(again) , after Bill is gone he will book a profit for the second time , and Bill receives.....$0.....of the profit . Profit=selling price-basis . 
.............This is exactly how used car dealers get ......Rich.....! They just keep selling , repossessing , then reselling the Same vehicle over and over and over ! , fordy:shrug:


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## starjj

LOL reminds me of someone I know. She says she doesn't lie but you have to ask her questions in a certain way or she will weasel out of answering them directly therefore she can say she doesn't lie.


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## starjj

fordy said:


> .............But , there's more to this story , normally , when we purchase a piece of property , the deed is recorded in our name and the lien is recorded as well . When , the buyer sells the property the net profit from the transaction goes to the buyer and the lien is paid off and a new lien is recorded in the name of the new buyer .
> .............With Bill , when the owner sells the property(again) , after Bill is gone he will book a profit for the second time , and Bill receives.....$0.....of the profit . Profit=selling price-basis .
> .............This is exactly how used car dealers get ......Rich.....! They just keep selling , repossessing , then reselling the Same vehicle over and over and over ! , fordy:shrug:


 
THAT is saying that the owners really want it back and CAN sell it. Not all such deals work out well for the owners of the property. Seems like if they really had others interested they could have kicked Bill of by now as he isn't meeting the terms of his contract.


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## FarmboyBill

Id say you got it Ferdy lol.

JJ, I cant say I disagree with your thoughts. I do know it can take a LONG time to evict someone, and cost a lot of money. All I can figure is that, because I make 1/2 payments, and the contract is up in a few years, there deciding to ride it out. No hassel, no cost. OR at least not as much of either.


----------



## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> Lesley, it will take me a month to (sneak) out of here, IF IM LUCKY. Tho I don't mind giving up any kind of possession so that he can resell it and again make $75000. Im not making anything out of the deal, BUT I don't want to LOSE anything out of it either.



Wait, Bill.......you said you owed him around 100,000 dollars. How do you figure you are doing him a favor by "letting" him sell his own land, for 25,000 less than you owe?

What if he sues you for the amount you owe, AND gets to sell the land for 75,000? Thats a possibility you know.


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## FarmboyBill

EYE owe him around $100,000 cause of the accured interest on the unpaid balance. Assuming the next guy has no CS to pay, and a wife who was a farm/garden/homesteader , they would get it paid off on time thereby saving $75Gs


----------



## Guest

fordy said:


> .............But , there's more to this story , normally , when we purchase a piece of property , the deed is recorded in our name and the lien is recorded as well . When , the buyer sells the property the net profit from the transaction goes to the buyer and the lien is paid off and a new lien is recorded in the name of the new buyer .
> .............With Bill , when the owner sells the property(again) , after Bill is gone he will book a profit for the second time , and Bill receives.....$0.....of the profit . Profit=selling price-basis .
> .............This is exactly how used car dealers get ......Rich.....! They just keep selling , repossessing , then reselling the Same vehicle over and over and over ! , fordy:shrug:


They can only repossess if the buyer doesn't keep his part of the agreement..how then does the seller become the bad guy???????????????????


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## FarmboyBill

Lesley He didn't necesssarly say car dealers were bad people. He was just stating a fact we all know


----------



## AngieM2

Bill - 
I must tell you that all you put online is available to anyone that decides to use it to pursue legal actions against you at any time in this default on payment of where you are now.

I have been through 2 or 3 occasions on the site where people have said too much in the open, and later have had it come it court - even if the said posts were deleted.

Therefore - be aware all you post is open to the entire world, and cache copies can be on the internet if they are deleted. Or someone could be saving them. 

Just letting you know.


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## FarmboyBill

yup. your right. Noted and Ill take it to heart.

That bering said, IF people want to keep talking about this aspect of my getting the place, they must do it with themselves


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> EYE owe him around $100,000 cause of the accured interest on the unpaid balance. Assuming the next guy has no CS to pay, and a wife who was a farm/garden/homesteader , they would get it paid off on time thereby saving $75Gs



Bill, WHAT does having a wife that is a homesteader have to do with being able to pay off a loan?? 
A wife that worked outside the home would make it more likely to be paid off than one at home, sheesh. 

I still think you need to realize the possibility that you are going to have to pay off the 100,000 you owe that guy.


----------



## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> Id say you got it Ferdy lol.
> 
> JJ, I cant say I disagree with your thoughts. I do know it can take a LONG time to evict someone, and cost a lot of money. All I can figure is that, because I make 1/2 payments, and the contract is up in a few years, there deciding to ride it out. No hassel, no cost. OR at least not as much of either.


 
..............Bill , there is one facet of this repossession(sp) that can Affect your credit and ability to purchase your.........New..........Property ! The owner of your current property can take you to court and get a Judgement , against you for amount of the original note plus Accrued interest . Once he records this Judgement it will GO onto your Credit report and MAY prevent the BANK from making a new loan so you can purchase your new piece of land ! 
..............The only way you can remove this judgement is either......a)payoff the judgement , or , b)file Ch. 7 personal bankruptacy . , fordy:bowtie:


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## Oxankle

I doubt that anyone is going to sue Bill at this point. He's pretty much judgement-proof.
Ox


----------



## Shygal

How do you figure?


----------



## fordy

Shygal said:


> How do you figure?


 
.................By virtue of the fact , that , he has been , in default , for a considerable length of time . The fact that the current owner hasn't filed a legal action against Bill , and is allowing him to take his time making his.....'Getaway'......indicated he will not sue Bill . Only time will tell . , fordy:shrug:


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## starjj

The old saying you can't get blood out of a turnip?


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## wr

I'm not fully abreast of US real estate laws but if FBB buys the new place, can owner A put a lien against his new property if he were awarded a judgement? 

FBB, did you put up any of your equipment or assets to secure your interest in the place you're leaving? Have you altered the property since you made your purchase agreement or have things declined in any way? My concern is that the owner could also sue if the house is not in the same condition as you bought, fencing may have been removed or declined since purchase.


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## Shygal

Theres no house, WR. I believe he has been living in a couple storage containers joined together or something like that


----------



## fordy

wr said:


> I'm not fully abreast of US real estate laws but if FBB buys the new place, can owner A put a lien against his new property if he were awarded a judgement?
> 
> FBB, did you put up any of your equipment or assets to secure your interest in the place you're leaving? Have you altered the property since you made your purchase agreement or have things declined in any way? My concern is that the owner could also sue if the house is not in the same condition as you bought, fencing may have been removed or declined since purchase.


...........Yes , the first lienholder will be the lender of record for the new property , the previous owner of the Bill's first property , AFTER he files his judgement in the new county where Bill is residing , will become the Second lienholder . IF , Bill's heirs sell the property , the 1st. lien holder will have their lein paid off in full , then whatever is left over will be paid to the second lienholder . , fordy


----------



## FarmboyBill

SG My (house) is 2 hip roof storage buildings, that are seperated by a built on 12fty 24ft addition.
After I get the house emptied of everything in it, I will take down the center section, and then put both buildings onto the ground. The tin on the center section is in perfect shape, other than the nail holes. I will try to save all of it covering the center section and a porch 12 X 40. I can use it for outbuildings on the other place. The lumber there was scavaged by me and FIL when he bought 3 adjoining lots with 2 old houses on them and tore them down to make room for him to build a big new house back in the early 80s.


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## AngieM2

One of these days, one a different thread or whatever - I'd like to hear more of the two storage containers with the joining area.

Sounds interesting and I wonder if you finished them inside and added things like power outlets. Or some type of bathroom.


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## d'vash

FarmboyBill said:


> God may or may not like what I do, but I know that He LOVES me, and I know that IF this falls through he will take care of me.


Bill, yes the Lord will never stop loving you - however - this does not negate the consequences you are burrying yourself in. God will not support the injustice of having not paid want you owe on your current property, for He is righteous and just. Don't forget He loves the person you owe money to, just as much as He loves you. 

Romans 13:7 "Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

Proverbs 16:8 "Better is a little with righteousness (uprightness in every area and relation and right standing with God) than great revenues with injustice." ...Or in this case, rather than revenues, a greater property.

Proverbs 19:20 "Listen to counsel and accept discipline that you may be wise the rest of your days."

Luke 14:28 "Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it?"


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## FarmboyBill

No they wernt altogether finished when she left, ON the inside. Yes there were many plug ins. 2 cealing fans, one in the kitchen and one in the living room which made up the 14 X 40. The master bedroom made up 12 X 14 of the center section with a 3ft hallway going to the 14 X 24. The 14 X 24 was made into 2 bedrooms for DS and DD. On the other side of the hallway, was a bathroom and a pantry that opened from the kitchen. The bathroom, that opened from the hallway was around 6 X 10 guessing. It had the hot water heater, lavatory, and SMALL shower. We had made plans for a stool, but it never got installed. A NEW septic tank was installed, but never used for that purpose. Ive used it as a cistern for water for all the rabbits, and chickens and goats.
My FIL decided that one foot drop in 24 was sufficient, and it proved soon not to be. The center section has a few leaks in it. It would have been a much better idea to do without the center section and butt the buildings together with a central gutter running the water off the inside sides of the roofs. MUCH BETTER idea than that, was to butt the 2 together with 4X4 uprights put between the 2 butted together, the hip roofs taken off and 2X4s running from the outside edges of the walls up to the 4bys which would be say 6ft above the edges of the inside walls, and then the cross pieces and tin roofing, and the sides boarded up.


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## COSunflower

Bill, my husband had to pay child support for many years when we married and bought this place but we never missed a payment. Child support for his son was paid first, and then our house payment, utilities, gas, food....We had 2 children of our own also. It was VERY hard but we did it and paid our property off. I still live on it and thank the good Lord that we were faithful on our payments!!! You should NEVER buy something if you can't pay for it or don't INTEND to pay for it.


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## FarmboyBill

Golden A Then How is God gonna feel when the owner again sells it, WHICH he would not have had the chance had I been able to pay it off. The owner is going to get to receive another small fortune from its sale. That's money he would not have received had I paid it off.
The owner is far from being short changed. A fact I imagine he has realized for many years.


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## FarmboyBill

Cos, I was paying on 3 kids for a total of 25yrs.


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## FarmboyBill

Part of the reason we bought it was, yes, I was a farmer, and hated Tulsa. BUT the X also realized she didn't want our kids growing up in Tulsa either.


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## AngieM2

FarmboyBill said:


> No they wernt altogether finished when she left, ON the inside. Yes there were many plug ins. 2 cealing fans, one in the kitchen and one in the living room which made up the 14 X 40. The master bedroom made up 12 X 14 of the center section with a 3ft hallway going to the 14 X 24. The 14 X 24 was made into 2 bedrooms for DS and DD. On the other side of the hallway, was a bathroom and a pantry that opened from the kitchen. The bathroom, that opened from the hallway was around 6 X 10 guessing. It had the hot water heater, lavatory, and SMALL shower. We had made plans for a stool, but it never got installed. A NEW septic tank was installed, but never used for that purpose. Ive used it as a cistern for water for all the rabbits, and chickens and goats.
> My FIL decided that one foot drop in 24 was sufficient, and it proved soon not to be. The center section has a few leaks in it. It would have been a much better idea to do without the center section and butt the buildings together with a central gutter running the water off the inside sides of the roofs. MUCH BETTER idea than that, was to butt the 2 together with 4X4 uprights put between the 2 butted together, the hip roofs taken off and 2X4s running from the outside edges of the walls up to the 4bys which would be say 6ft above the edges of the inside walls, and then the cross pieces and tin roofing, and the sides boarded up.


thanks for describing it for me.


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## FarmboyBill

Glad I could. I was checking the cost of moving them up there, and when I described the 14 X 40, he said you couldn't build one like that for 10Gs today, and he worked for a hip roof building company building those kinds of sheds and barns.


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## COSunflower

Didn't you make a budget? Take your monthly income, subtract your obligations (child support), utilities, insurances, gas, food etc. and then see what you have left for housing...I don't think people should BUY a place unless they have budgeted for that payment as you pay on property for a LONG time!!! Your landlord is NOT making money off you - you've only been making half payments you say. Who pays for property tax? You or him? He hasn't made much of anything and will he have to clean up the place after you leave before he can even list it again??? It doesn't matter if you are a farmer - you should only bite off what you can chew.


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## Terri in WV

Bill, the owner is short changed-by you. You may spin it how you want, but the bottom line is-you are ripping him off. You and he made an agreement on terms and you dropped the ball. You should be thanking your lucky stars that he has allowed you to continue living there as long as he has. I wonder, do you pay the property taxes, or does he? Did he decide long ago that you are just a renter instead of a buyer?

Here's what I'm worried about(and maybe some others). You've floated on this land for years and it sounds like your time is almost up. You seem pretty sure that you're going to get this new property, because the bank says you have good credit. They just do a quick check and don't go into depth on your credit history until you apply for a loan. Your history WILL affect your borrowing power. They're not going to care that you had to pay child support so you couldn't make your payments. Having just gone through the process, and understanding what's involved, I hate to be so blunt, but I don't think you're going to stand a snowballs chance in Hades of getting it. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong and I also hope you have a realistic alternative.


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## cindilu

Bill, can I make a honest suggestion and only because I don't want you taken to the cleaners or hurt in some way that you cannot dig yourself out. 

Back out, go back to square one and find a different piece of property. Take a look at your finances, what you have to offer and bring to the plate. And don't over extend yourself trying to reach to high. Set goals but do it right so that it does not come back to bite ya in the behind later.


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> Golden A Then How is God gonna feel when the owner again sells it, WHICH he would not have had the chance had I been able to pay it off. The owner is going to get to receive another small fortune from its sale. That's money he would not have received had I paid it off.
> The owner is far from being short changed. A fact I imagine he has realized for many years.



Bill, if you paid it off, he would have sold it. To you.

Im not sure how you think he is going to be blessed by selling it, when he thinks he had already sold it to you

I don't think God looks at it that way, Bill


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## d'vash

FarmboyBill said:


> Golden A Then How is God gonna feel when the owner again sells it, WHICH he would not have had the chance had I been able to pay it off. The owner is going to get to receive another small fortune from its sale. That's money he would not have received had I paid it off.
> The owner is far from being short changed. A fact I imagine he has realized for many years.


I don't believe you understand. God will compenstate the previous owner the money that you owe, but you would still have injustice on your hands. 

The previous owner SHOULD be making interest on the owner financing but since you are only making half payments he is not. I am pretty sure you wrote somewhere in this thread how much you purchased the place for, but now I can't find it. 

I believe it was around $40,000 with 8% interest and no downpayment. Let's say the amortization and interest term are both 10 years - your monthly payment would be $480 monthly (including interest). And the previous owner would have accumulated just under $18,000 in interest over the years. 

$40,000 + $18,000 = $58,000 gross profit 

If you are only paying half of your monthly rate, then you owe (according to these figures) $29,000.

This is where what you say doesn't add up...You say the current value of this property is $75,000. Then why, if you are so determined to purchase the other place, would you not sell this current property and use the remaining amount to buy the other place cash? You do realize that if you sell at $75,000, you will have the $29,000 to pay off what you owe and have $46,000 remaining to purchase the other property cash! You could probably hackle the $52,000 price tag on the property you want to $46,000 and you would therefore not have a mortgage! Or even if you did end up buying it for $52,000 and getting a mortgage, you would have money for the 20% downpayment and $30,000 or so left over! 

But of course, that makes me thinking.... Either you ignorantly did not know that was an option, the numbers are wrong or you know the value of the property really hasn't appreciated to $75,000. It just does not make any sense - if you have an option to sell the property for $75,000 AND pay off what you owe, doing what is right in God's eyes AND helping your options of getting a bank loan in your future - then why aren't you doing so? 

Me thinks the reason being is because the land is not worth $75,000. In such case, the previous owner reposseses the property he would not be making a load of money! In such a case, he would more than likely break-even or be LOOSING money!

... If you could so kindly repost how much you purchased the current property, how much interest and until when you have to lay it off - then we can look at the numbers and see what's your best option.


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## Shygal

Golden Affinity said:


> ... If you could so kindly repost how much you purchased the current property, how much interest and until when you have to lay it off - then we can look at the numbers and see what's your best option.



Bill

DONT DO THIS. PLEASE.

You have already given people enough ammo to shoot you down for good with your bank, please do not post things like this person is asking for.


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## d'vash

Shygal said:


> Bill
> 
> DONT DO THIS. PLEASE.
> 
> You have already given people enough ammo to shoot you down for good with your bank, please do not post things like this person is asking for.


... Or not? I was just saying, that if he could sell the place he is living now and pay off his debt with money to spare - then that is a route he should go.


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## vicker

---- FIRE!!!!! Please unsubscribe me from this thread' HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


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## vicker

:d


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## FarmboyBill

Nope. im through talking numbers, and about this place. IF you care to continue to dwell on that, and the past, that's for you do to. I have to prepare to dwell on the future. There are things comeing, situations I have never been in, and to a large part, have hardly no control over. But, Ive got to keep going forward, hitting them, OR side stepping them as I see to be the best moves. Winters comeing, and Ill be living out in both places during it until I get moved. Once I split this house up, and until I get it sold, I will be trying to live in the 14 X 40 cause it has the stove. BUT once its broke up theres an opening around 6ft or a bit more I will have to cover up to keep warm. Then, theres trying to keep warm when im over there. Ill have to cut wood for both places. This is likely going to be a hard winter. Im likely going to be hard pressed to get through it.

I told those owners I was interested in their farm. I told them I would be buying it IF the bank rode with me. TO THE BEST OF MY A B I L I T Y, Im going to try to do just that. WHEN and IF there comes a time when things happen that I have no control of, that cause it to be impossible to continue to try to get the place, THEN I will HAVE to do something else.


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## wr

FBB, Golden Affinity does have a reasonable suggestion. It would be better for you financially if you could sell your current place and get the owner paid off so it won't come back and haunt you later on. 

If that is not possible, it would be a good idea to sit down and talk to him about changing the terms of the agreement to a month by month rental with the understanding that they can list the property immediately. I think it would be an act of good faith on your behalf and might give him an opportunity to get his ducks in a row instead of being left high and dry. You may only be paying interest on the land but that certainly is better than him having no revenue at all from it. 

I'm not sure what your monthly payments are on the current residence but will your payments be significantly less on the new place and have you budgeted for moving the trailer and hooking up a septic system, power and gas? I would hate to think that you would end up living in a portion of a barn for the rest of your days.


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## wr

AngieM2 said:


> One of these days, one a different thread or whatever - I'd like to hear more of the two storage containers with the joining area.
> 
> Sounds interesting and I wonder if you finished them inside and added things like power outlets. Or some type of bathroom.


Angie, along the same idea, my father built his barn and a coffee & pie shop/craft store out of salvaged telephone poles. The construction is not really any more complicated that building a log cabin, except the poles are tapered so they have to be reversed for each row. 

The barn has a tack room & stalls but could easily be divided into rooms and the hayloft area would make a terrific loft bedroom. Everything from roof joists to windows were salvaged and he did the work himself so the only cost associated with the barn is the tin he bought for the roof. Because of the tapering of the logs, Total cost was proven with receipts to be 1,500. 

The coffee shop/craft store is made of two buildings just like the barn but each has a doorway face each other and he's built a passageway between with a single front door access. When asked about the construction, he says it's simple he built two barns connected by an outhouse but ultimately, it could be a larger but very comfortable home.


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## starjj

starjj said:


> We can all justify bad behavior. Guess it is between you and God.


 
See this post again. Bill is always going to justify what he does. Doesn't make it right. It is all bad Karma.

Another point. If you make improvements on land that you are buying and default on doesn't that make the improvements part of the deal? Say I bought land and built a house on it and then defaulted on the loan, is the house mine to take down and move off the land? I think not. THAT is why he doesn't want the current owners informed until he sneaks off.


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## Dutchie

FarmboyBill said:


> If I remember it in a week and 2 Wednesdays when I go to my bank for my monthly corrections to my checks Ill ask her what the appraisel fee is.
> Nah, better yet, Ill call the bank today. Be right back. Nope. Forgot its Sat.


Bill, PM me the address and, of you have it, the legal and I will do a desk top appraisal for you. A full fledged land appraisal in that area can cost you up to $500 which you will have to pay again when the bank orders one.

You say the property is next to a flood zone. You want to make sure even a small part of the property is not IN that flood zone.


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## Dutchie

Golden Affinity said:


> ... Or not? I was just saying, that if he could sell the place he is living now and pay off his debt with money to spare - then that is a route he should go.


He doesn't own the place he is living in now. He has it contract for deed which means it stays is the "seller's" name until paid off.


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## po boy

Bill, That old truck should be worth some money.
Have you talked to the seller about taking some of your equipment as down payment? If they would you could move forward now.
Have you thought about listing the truck On Auto Trader Classics?
Or Ebay, craig's list etc
Look at this Google search for Antique Autos For Sale . I would list that truck on as many of those sites that allow listings.
Do the same for all your farm equipment. Try Tractor House


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## Lazy J

Watching this thread is just like watching a car wreck, you just can't take you eyes off of it.


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## d'vash

Dutchie said:


> He doesn't own the place he is living in now. He has it contract for deed which means it stays is the "seller's" name until paid off.


I see. Thanks for clearing that up. 

Bill, whatever happens, I do hope the right decision is made and you acquire the property you've been dreaming off.


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## fordy

po boy said:


> Bill, That old truck should be worth some money.
> Have you talked to the seller about taking some of your equipment as down payment? If they would you could move forward now.
> Have you thought about listing the truck On Auto Trader Classics?
> Or Ebay, craig's list etc
> Look at this Google search for Antique Autos For Sale . I would list that truck on as many of those sites that allow listings.
> Do the same for all your farm equipment. Try Tractor House


.................Exactly..........that old white truck is probably worth....$$$$$$......! There is a guy out of dallas who has a TV show and he goes around buying old vehicles , getting them in running order and taking them to auctions and making really good profit on them ! I can't remember the name of the show but I'll try to look it up ! He would come to OK and make you an offer and you could make your debut on national TV. Sides , just think of all those 'Wimmins' that would get to see you in all your Commando farmers outfit . , fordy:sob:


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## po boy

fordy said:


> .................Exactly..........that old white truck is probably worth....$$$$$$......! There is a guy out of dallas who has a TV show and he goes around buying old vehicles , getting them in running order and taking them to auctions and making really good profit on them ! I can't remember the name of the show but I'll try to look it up ! He would come to OK and make you an offer and you could make your debut on national TV. Sides , just think of all those 'Wimmins' that would get to see you in all your Commando farmers outfit . , fordy:sob:


 I looked and can't find any for sale. Including FBB's


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## FarmboyBill

LOL Fordy
PB Ill check those places out. Whaddia u think the truck is worth? I have advertised it on Smokstak, on yt forum


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## fordy

http://www.discovery.com/fast-n-loud/index.php?v=discovery_shows_fast-n-loud/

...............Show name is "fast n' loud" , Richard Rawlings and Aaron Kaufman !
...............Their bizz name is....."Gas Monkey Garage" , in dallas , tx. I'm sure they've got a number in the yellow pages . 
................As PO Boy says , you need to determine HOW much that truck is worth ! , fordy

..................The URL doesn't work but you still have enough info to get their phone number . , fordy


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## Terri

FarmboyBill said:


> Golden A Then How is God gonna feel when the owner again sells it, WHICH he would not have had the chance had I been able to pay it off. The owner is going to get to receive another small fortune from its sale. That's money he would not have received had I paid it off.
> The owner is far from being short changed. A fact I imagine he has realized for many years.


Bill, for what it is worth, I agree with you here. 

While you have fallen behind in your payments, and because of this the penalties have eaten up any equity you had in the property, the property owner has had decades of payments from you. 

Now you need to know about a "quit claim" deed.

Basically, if you sign a quit claim deed it says that you have no more ownership in any part of the property. It allows the property to be sold without any legal fuss. 

You want to be rid of your current property and the person you bought it from will want to sell it again. A quit claim deed allows this as you will be giving the other person a clear title.

Basically, I imagine he can waive any money you might owe him and in exchange you sign the quit claim deed to waive any ownership you might have in the land. He gets clear title and you walk away.

You understand, I am not advizing ANYTHING as I do not know it you owe him more than the land is worth (you have said you think this is true but said you do not know) and I have never known what your contract says AND I DO NOT WANT YOU TO PUT THE CONTRACT ON HT! It would be too much information, and putting too much information out in the public eye is never wise.

This is not advice. I just was not sure if you knew what a quit claim deed was.


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## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> LOL Fordy
> PB Ill check those places out. Whaddia u think the truck is worth? I have advertised it on Smokstak, on yt forum


 
.............If you can connect with the right person , it's worth several thousand bucks . Just , don't sell it for a song , OR until you have a firm handle on it's VALUE ! , fordy


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## FarmboyBill

Fordy I tried yours 3 times it says THIS PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED, or something like that. On the places I listed ive been dropping it a G note a month. Started at 10. Down to 7 ot 8.
Terri How do I go bout getting this quit claim deed?


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> LOL Fordy
> PB Ill check those places out. Whaddia u think the truck is worth? I have advertised it on Smokstak, on yt forum


 Bill, I don't see it. What's the link to your ad?

No idea what it's worth. You need to get it appraised and get it all over the I-net so it can be seen. That auto trader is a good place to list first.. and then ebay
I came across this site. Free appraisal. 

Bill, I don't know anything about the free appraisal site, so be cautious..


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> Fordy I tried yours 3 times it says THIS PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED, or something like that. On the places I listed ive been dropping it a G note a month. Started at 10. Down to 7 ot 8.
> Terri How do I go bout getting this quit claim deed?


 Bill, If you have a land contract, doubt the property is in your name.

A quit Claim deed would just deed the property to someone. In your case you would deed it back to the contract holder........ No need to do this unless the deed is in your name.


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## po boy

Fast and Loud

Fordy's link had an extra period between www and discovery


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## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> Fordy I tried yours 3 times it says THIS PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED, or something like that. On the places I listed ive been dropping it a G note a month. Started at 10. Down to 7 ot 8.
> Terri How do I go bout getting this quit claim deed?


...............I fixed the URL per PO Boy , thanks ! You need to get a Phone number for their garage in Dallas,tx so you can call them ! Also , you need a better camera so you can send them some pics of the truck ! Pull IT out of the weeds , wash it off and take some good , clear pics that do it justice ! 


..........Their garage is called Gas Monkey Garage......dallas,tx !


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## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> Fordy I tried yours 3 times it says THIS PAGE CANNOT BE DISPLAYED, or something like that. On the places I listed ive been dropping it a G note a month. Started at 10. Down to 7 ot 8.
> Terri How do I go bout getting this quit claim deed?


 
...........OK......Gas Monkey Garage.....
.....................11451 Reeder Rd.
.....................Dallas,Tx
.....................972-243-6659..........

..................DON"T call them until you know the Year model , and have some kind of idea about it's value ! If , you send them pics , they will beable to figure OUT IF THEY are interested........
..................IF he contacts you fairly quickly , and shows some interest , You can deduce from his interest , that , HE feels he can get it running and MAKE a good profit off of it ...........Personally , I would ask at least $5,000 for it.......you can always go DOWN..........Asking too much , is NOT a Sin , asking Too little is Stupidity , personified ! , fordy:happy:


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## jwal10

Bill, I am glad you know what you know now. Good luck. You deserve a better future. Do get some legal help before you jump in this time. Money well spent. I paid a lawyer $250.00 for an hour of advice, saved me 10's of 1000's. Never went back to him, took care of it myself. But, he told me the law. Another great asset is a good tax man. The 2 together....invaluable....James


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## Dutchie

po boy said:


> Bill, If you have a land contract, doubt the property is in your name.
> 
> A quit Claim deed would just deed the property to someone. In your case you would deed it back to the contract holder........ No need to do this unless the deed is in your name.


If they have a Contract for Deed and the seller put it in the buyer's name before it is paid off he/she is nuts.

If not, he won't need a Quit Claim


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## Terri

FarmboyBill said:


> Terri How do I go bout getting this quit claim deed?


It might not be necessary: it depends on how your contract was written. 

In the event that they ask you to sign one, now you know what it is. And, *IF* they ask you to sign one, I would not unless they agree that you do not owe them money. 

Everything depends on the contract that you signed so many years ago, and what it said. Since nobody knows what was in it, we are all guessing. :cowboy:


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## FarmboyBill

I pay the taxes on it.


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## FarmboyBill

I tried calling that goosed monkeys inna garage. The box is full and there not taking any more calls. Ive got ads in Smokstak, YT Forums, and Craigslist Tulsa.


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> I tried calling that goosed monkeys inna garage. The box is full and there not taking any more calls. Ive got ads in Smokstak, YT Forums, and Craigslist Tulsa.


I see the tractor and the two wheel gizmo on another site (engine something). You have two on that site for the two wheel thingy. One of them has the price all screwed up. You might want to edit it. Ad on the truck is expired on the engine site.

There is not enough traffic on the sites you have them listed to do u a lot of good. That truck has a fair amount of value............I would put lot of effort in getting the ads out.

You can check to see if the deed is in your name here:

http://okcountyrecords.com/search.php?county=019


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## FarmboyBill

I just replaced the ads on CL YT and Smokstak.


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## FarmboyBill

Dutchie Im going to call the owners and getr the address and legal description. When I get it ill put it on here. Thanks for the kind offer. I already called a appraiser who does some of the appraising for a bank in Nowata. Arvest Bank.I can tell you NOW that its 3 miles E of Nowata on Hwy 60, then 2 miles S on 417 Rd.


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## po boy

Bill,

Make friends with this guy.. might give u some leads or a good idea on value..
http://tulsa.craigslist.org/pts/3999449862.html


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## FarmboyBill

Dutchie, I thought that the flood zone ruling was that the house/outbuildings, ect couldn't be in a flood zone. Not so necessarily the land surrounding the farmstead??


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## FarmboyBill

PB He is looking for a welder finish man on metal. He says (IF you are not experienced in those areas, PLEAASE DO NOT WASTE MY TIME BY ANSWERING)
I AM NOT EXPERIENCED IN THOSE AREAS, AND SO I didn't waste his time.


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> PB He is looking for a welder finish man on metal. He says (IF you are not experienced in those areas, PLEAASE DO NOT WASTE MY TIME BY ANSWERING)
> I AM NOT EXPERIENCED IN THOSE AREAS, AND SO I didn't waste his time.


Bill,

He fixes and sells your type of truck. He might buy your truck, know someone that would or give you an idea of value. If he gets help, he may be in the market.

From the ad: I own Hall's Street Rod Garage and the very small shop located in Jenks and it has been shut down for a few years now so we would like to start building some *1930's trucks* to resale. I have a few 1934 projects now to finish now. 


There's not a lot of those old whites around.


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## FarmboyBill

Well, Im not pushing it. Ive got Sept Oct, Nov, and Dec to get things sold.


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## FarmboyBill

(theres not alotta old whites around) That's true. Im an old Whitie lol


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## starjj

Another point. If you make improvements on land that you are buying and default on doesn't that make the improvements part of the deal? Say I bought land and built a house on it and then defaulted on the loan, is the house mine to take down and move off the land? I think not. THAT is why he doesn't want the current owners informed until he sneaks off. 


So what is it? If I buy land and make improvements (such as building a house) and then default on the loan is the house part of the loan and has to stay or can it be taken down and carted off because (the loan is for land). The way I had always heard is any improvements that are made on the land are subject to the default judgement and can not be moved until the loan is paid.


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## FarmboyBill

The way ive always heard it is, IF a improvement is NOT fastened down in any way to the ground it CAN be removed. IF however, the the improvement IS fastened down to the ground as with guy wires and anchors, as with trailers, single wides/double wides, THEY become part of the land and CANNOT be removed.

Are you saying, IF I bought a round grain bin, and brought it home and sat it on top concrete blocks without any guy wires or anchors to hold it in case of wind ect, that it becomes part of the land.


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## FarmboyBill

AND remember, Kentucky laws on the subject could be VERY different than Kans, Mo, Okla laws.


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## wr

If you make a midnight move, how do you prove somerhing was or wasn't tied down. I would think it might be a good idea to check with a lawyer than making decisions on what you've heard. I think you'll find the law is pretty clear and specific.


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## po boy

If it is on a permanent foundation, it's part of the real property


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## FarmboyBill

Its on concrete blocks NOT cemented together and not INTO the ground and spaced around every 5 or so feet apart.


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## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> Its on concrete blocks NOT cemented together and not INTO the ground and spaced around every 5 or so feet apart.


 
...............I do hope you leave the 2 Holer outhouse so future purchasers can have a repository in case they get a case of Montazuma's Revenge ! , fordy:happy:


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## wr

FBB, I still feel you would be better to talk to a lawyer in Oklahoma to determine what is and isn't legal than take advice over the internet. The one thing I do know is that ignorance of the law is no excuse, is pretty much universal.


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## FarmboyBill

wr I intend to do what you've suggested.
Fordy, Nope, the 2 holer goes when I go. What would I rapat over there without one, and on the corner of a crossroads too?


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## FarmboyBill

heres pics of the underneath of the house.


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## FarmboyBill

NOT TIED DoWN


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## frogmammy

Not insulated either, from the looks of things.

When I lived in Texas (many moons ago) the wheels had to stay ON a house for the house to be considered non-permanent. Don't know how that works in OK, but it WILL be something you need to check before you start moving buildings.

Mon


----------



## FarmboyBill

THEASE ARE HIP ROOF STORAGE SHEDS FM. They nivver had no wheels.


----------



## FarmboyBill

More pics


----------



## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> THEASE ARE HIP ROOF STORAGE SHEDS FM. They nivver had no wheels.


...............Somewhar , way back thar , you said it was like 80 to 100 miles from the old place to the new place............So , you're going to have to cut these sheds in half , minimum , to transport them down the highway ! Do you have a 'Moving house buddy' that is going to watch you while you cut these buildings up in atleast (2) pieces ? Moving these items is going to get EXpen$eive , yes , no ! ?
...............What is the relationship between your and your current lien holder??? See , for this person to allow you to DEfault on the loan , not file and get a judgement against you in court , allow you to remove these valuable items from the property , and , finally , allow you to take you all the time you need to get moved is a beyond the pale in a normal seller<>buyer relationship ! Please clarify for me................is the lender your uncle or an old flame or what ? I'm not casting aspersions upon you Bill , in fact I think it's nothing short of amazing that you put this deal together and bring it to closure once you get moved . , fordy:gaptooth:


----------



## starjj

Fordy

He has posted many times that he is going to sneak it off the land. I believe also that he thinks he can move it with a truck. 

I see this whole deal as a snowballs chance in a very hot place.

FBB doesn't it get really cold in OK? I can't imagine living with the underside not enclosed like that.


----------



## FarmboyBill

#1 Ive mentioned a FEW doz times that It cosrt $1000 to have them moved.
$2 Ive also a 12 X 32 that my boy thinks that we/he can move.
#3 I intend to break up the house, and sell it here after I get it down on the ground.
#4 Ive lived here since and for 32 or so winters.
#5 I took these pics to show a lawyer that it as never tied down, and is not set on a foundation.


----------



## Terri

Bill, I like your idea of getting a used mobile home for your new place. From what I have heard a mobile home that is older than 30 years old may not be strong enough to move, and so the homes that are 25+ years old sometimes go for very little money. 

Calling mobile home parks near your new area might be an option: sometimes the mobile home owners repossess a home because of unpaid back rent, and they ALSO sometimes sell them for not very much money. 

As for the home you are living in: if you are going to sell it then why move it first? Craigs list it as a cabin to be removed by the buyer!

IMHO.


----------



## starjj

FarmboyBill said:


> #1 Ive mentioned a FEW doz times that It cosrt $1000 to have them moved.
> $2 Ive also a 12 X 32 that my boy thinks that we/he can move.
> #3 I intend to break up the house, and sell it here after I get it down on the ground.
> #4 Ive lived here since and for 32 or so winters.
> #5 I took these pics to show a lawyer that it as never tied down, and is not set on a foundation.


I didn't ask how long you have lived there. I said it would be better to have something to keep the cold out from underneath and I can't imagine anyone that would NOT do that (think of the heat that is wasted).


----------



## starjj

Terri He has mentioned several times that someone already is giving him a free mobile. He wants that AND move his buildings


----------



## sidepasser

This thread is like a novel, I read a couple of pages a day during lunch to keep up with "as the world turns starring FBB".

Hope you get the buildings moved, you get the loan, sell the old home, and live happily ever after. This has sure been a long road for you.

Just be careful, use a good attorney, and don't put the cart before the horse.


----------



## frogmammy

I love the comparrison to a soap opera! :rock:

Mon


----------



## FarmboyBill

I don't intend now to move the house. I just want to get it spliot and separated, retrieve the blocks underneath it, and sit it on the ground in alignment with the driveway. I think that, it will be more appealing to a potential buyer to not have to figure how to get it down onto the ground and turned at a right angle into the driveway to get it loaded.


----------



## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> I don't intend now to move the house. I just want to get it spliot and separated, retrieve the blocks underneath it, and sit it on the ground in alignment with the driveway. I think that, it will be more appealing to a potential buyer to not have to figure how to get it down onto the ground and turned at a right angle into the driveway to get it loaded.


 
.................Bill you're FAR better OFF leaving it the way IT IS...........WHY , Because a buyer , can SEE , UNDER it now ! Plus , the higher it is already , the easier it will be for someone to LOAD it onto a trailer ! The condition of the subflooring is probably , More important to a buyer than anything else than the roof ! , fordy:huh:


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## Shygal

Bill......one picture of cement blocks underneath is plenty. You don't need to post 15 pictures of the same type of thing, for those with bad internet and dial up.


That said....my moms house in VT is the VERY SAME WAY, it is on blocks , not tied down by anything, there are just cement blocks holding it up. It used to be a deer camp, made into a home

And I can assure you, that house is considered part of the property. It is not a mobile structure to be taken with her when she moves. She also pays taxes on the HOUSE that is there, whether it is a permanent foundation or not, she lives in it so it is classified as a house


----------



## Sundogg23

frogmammy said:


> I love the comparrison to a soap opera! :rock:
> 
> Mon


I think someone should turn this thread into a new reality show--much better than desperate housewives...
"So You Think You Can Move" staring FBB as himself. Heck, I'd watch it 

(Oh....hi, I'm new to posting by the way--but read this forum religiously)

-sundogg in MT


----------



## FarmboyBill

Alright Fordy, but its at right angles to the road. It took my tractor to get it where it is after they unloaded it. You may see the 2 trees that sit between the house and the road.


----------



## FarmboyBill

SG Im going to contact a lawyer. IF I cant move them, I cant move them. Id hate to sell them, or move them and then the court say I have to pay to bring them back.


----------



## Brighton

Is this in one of the areas you are looking at FBB??

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/co...e/494216-40-acres-n-e-oklahoma-$40-000-a.html


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## FarmboyBill

nope not it


----------



## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> nope not it


Oh, ok, well you are welcome!


----------



## Shygal

What, no installment of the soap opera today? I'm disappointed


----------



## FarmboyBill

Nothing going on. Called owners again and gave my ph# in case they lost my number again, asking for the legal description, and road route.


----------



## Guest

Sundogg23 said:


> I think someone should turn this thread into a new reality show--much better than desperate housewives...
> "So You Think You Can Move" staring FBB as himself. Heck, I'd watch it
> 
> (Oh....hi, I'm new to posting by the way--but read this forum religiously)
> 
> -sundogg in MT


Hello and welcome


----------



## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> Nothing going on. Called owners again and gave my ph# in case they lost my number again, asking for the legal description, and road route.


............Have the current owners kept their property taxes paid up ? , fordy


----------



## Sundogg23

Shygal said:


> What, no installment of the soap opera today? I'm disappointed


I know...this is the thread that made me come out of lurking!


----------



## Sundogg23

bostonlesley said:


> Hello and welcome


Thank you!!! I've been reading here on HT for so long--but never posted...I was shy


----------



## FarmboyBill

Hi ShySunSog lol


----------



## FarmboyBill

I think my DD said that they had been paid up to some months ago, but that might been on another place. Might be, but I don't know for sure


----------



## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> I think my DD said that they had been paid up to some months ago, but that might been on another place. Might be, but I don't know for sure


 
...............If , their payoff plus Unpaid taxes is greater than the appraisal they won't have much room to bargain with you on the sales price ! You really need to find out , IF possible , what the payoff IS on their loan . , fordy


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## FarmboyBill

Where we get from their property taxes, to they having a loan on the property??


----------



## Dixie Bee Acres

Like sands through the hourglass, these are the days of FBB's life




Sorry, I just had to. I'll go back to my corner now.


----------



## FarmboyBill

hy I don't know about that. Theres several that say I am going to get ?????? if I don't wise up to the circumstances. That sounds like sex and intirgue to me lol


----------



## FarmboyBill

Well, since pore SG is bored to beers, and since its 3 34 Sat morning, and since Im at Xs after having played cards with her and my 2 grandsons and DDEL and DS, AND since many people on here delight in rehashing the same things over and over, its my turn.

I cant get my haid wrapped around this.
IF the bank appraises the place at say $50 000, and they will loan either 80% or 90%, then, I have to come up with either $6000, or $10,000.
BUT
If they only appraise it at say 45,000, and will loan 80 or 90% on that amount, and say I have to come up with $5000, or $9000, I am assuming I would have to also come up with the other $5000, assuming they drop their price to $50 000. 
Am I right in that assumption, or not.


----------



## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> Well, since pore SG is bored to beers, and since its 3 34 Sat morning, and since Im at Xs after having played cards with her and my 2 grandsons and DDEL and DS, AND since many people on here delight in rehashing the same things over and over, its my turn.
> 
> I cant get my haid wrapped around this.
> IF the bank appraises the place at say $50 000, and they will loan either 80% or 90%, then, I have to come up with either $6000, or $10,000.
> BUT
> If they only appraise it at say 45,000, and will loan 80 or 90% on that amount, and say I have to come up with $5000, or $9000, I am assuming I would have to also come up with the other $5000, assuming they drop their price to $50 000.
> Am I right in that assumption, or not.


.................This is why I was asking you if you knew what the Payoff is on their loan ! If , (hypothetically) their payoff is say $53,000 and they owe unpaid property taxes of $2,000 they may want $55,000 or they can't sell ! Regardless of what the appraisal says ! If the bank will only loan $45,000 then you will have to come UP with the Down payment of 45,000x10% =$4,500 plus 55,000-45,000=10,000 ! $4,500+10,000=$14,500 cash ! 
..................They cannot sell for any less than the payoff on their loan balance . I honestly think you need to be looking around for alternate properties to purchase . There are are always other choices , IF , You just look ! I think you have Tunnel vision for this piece of land . , fordy


----------



## Lazy J

For the love of all things pure and good, is there ANYONE in FBB's area that can help this poor man? He is clearly out of his league on this transaction. Surely there someone knows a real estate lawyer that can help him.


----------



## starjj

LOL He has had good advice BUT he won't follow it. He needs a lawyer BUT he ignores that part. Out of his league is correct and his heart is set on just this one property no matter if it is the best deal or not.


----------



## Dutchie

Lazy J said:


> For the love of all things pure and good, is there ANYONE in FBB's area that can help this poor man? He is clearly out of his league on this transaction. Surely there someone knows a real estate lawyer that can help him.


I have in the past and have offered again. I just don't understand what is going on. I think he is putting the horse behind the cart. The owners haven't agreed to sell, right? Seems like a lot of energy being wasted.

If I were FBB I would put a notice on Craigslist. There may be people interested in selling their property. But he should get pre-approved by his bank first. In writing.


----------



## Grumpy old man

I buy and sell more than a "few " pieces of land using a land contract buying the properties from the owner with very little down and small monthly payments NO BANKS or QUALIFYING ,Farm boy I've read most of this saga and from what I see it's time to run from this deal and not look back ! Many very nice pieces of land can be found with OWNER FINANCING and none of the difficulties you are having .Stop and take a look around the area for a better deal because they are out there and not all that hard to find ,It just seems you have fallen for this piece of land and have not looked for a better deal ? Try Craigslist or just Google " land for sale by owner " In Whatever county you want to live in and you will find a better deal !


----------



## starjj

Dutchie said:


> I have in the past and have offered again. I just don't understand what is going on. I think he is putting the horse behind the cart. The owners haven't agreed to sell, right? Seems like a lot of energy being wasted.
> 
> If I were FBB I would put a notice on Craigslist. There may be people interested in selling their property. But he should get pre-approved by his bank first. In writing.


 
Dutchie has tired and tired again and again to help Bill however there seems to be very little gratitute and just a lot of taking. I wouldn't be so willing to keep offering sound advice if the shoe was on my foot.


----------



## Terri

I have watched this thread from the beginning.

The reason FBB is struggling is because he is not ready to buy. If he had the down payment and was ready to buy then the bank would give him a contract for his niece to read, and everything would be in it.

FBB is wanting to understand what the bank will do before he sees things in print, and I do not believe that the bank has drawn up a contract yet. 

The only thing we can do is to tell him what is usual in our areas, that changes from area to area, and Bill is getting confused because what is common in one area might not be in another.

Bill wants to KNOW, but he will not know until he has the contract. And, Bill does not intend to buy until this winter, after he sells his hay at winter's higher prices.


----------



## Echoesechos

Bill, you need to know what they owe so you have an idea what you can offer them. Just because they are stating $50,000 does not mean that is or should be their final price UNLESS they owe that amount. Do you pay asking price on vehicles you buy? It's the same kind of deal. So if they are asking 50,000, but owe less, then you can state what you are willing to pay, if they accept then you have to come up with the down only, closing costs and appraisals maybe.... Depends upon what your bank wants after that... It's why you have been told to talk to them and get things squared away with the bank. They are the key to this whole deal.


----------



## frogmammy

Lazy J said:


> For the love of all things pure and good, is there ANYONE in FBB's area that can help this poor man? He is clearly out of his league on this transaction. Surely there someone knows a real estate lawyer that can help him.


If someone did that.....

...everyone here would need to pony up for that person's bail and lawyer's fees...and their extended stay at "Serene Acres Funny Farm"...

it's just that kinda mess....

Mon


----------



## Shygal

frogmammy said:


> If someone did that.....
> 
> ...everyone here would need to pony up for that person's bail and lawyer's fees...and their extended stay at "Serene Acres Funny Farm"...
> 
> it's just that kinda mess....
> 
> Mon



:hysterical: ound:


----------



## Shygal

Bill, do you know if they own the land outright, or have to pay off a mortgage on it?


----------



## Guest

Bill is not stupid..Bill asks for advice, receives it, and discards it..he's had expert advice for months..and yet he forges on his own way, while lamenting the lack of progress...confused??? NOT.


----------



## FarmboyBill

#1 I DONT KNOW OR THINK THEY GOT A LOAn ON THER PROPERTY. 
#2 They have had it for sale for over a year. I drovwe past it early last year but wasn't interested when I saw it didn't have a house. I THINK, IF they had had a loan on it, they would have HAD to sell it by now for whatever to get out from under so called and guessed at, loan.
#3 She got it from prior divorce appairantly 
#4 IF anybody remembers my Suzi pickup, Im getting her out of the garage Mon from a mechanic who has had her for near 4 mos. That's another $1400. Come Monday I am going to call the Nowata Assessors office and see IF they have a map that I can look at and find out where the place is. IF they do, come Fri I will go there and find it and get the legal description, AND address. This is Sat night, and they have not responded to me YET as to my 2 calls to them wanting to know those items. I should also be able to find if there is any notes on it. WHEN/IF I get these, I will tell Dutchie what they are. UNTIL THEN, as to her kind offer, I cannot do a thing about it.


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## FarmboyBill

Chevy started this stuff about them having a note on it, likely just to see how far it would run. Id say it took off pretty good.


----------



## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> This is Sat night, and they have not responded to me YET as to my 2 calls to them wanting to know those items.


More than likely you are never going to hear from them again regarding the property, so you better start searching for the next one.


----------



## Dutchie

Bill I may be able to find the property tax and plat if you have the owner's name and a property address

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> Come Monday I am going to call the Nowata Assessors office and see IF they have a map that I can look at and find out where the place is. IF they do, come Fri I will go there and find it and get the legal description, AND address.



Wait...........what do you mean find out where the place is, you took pictures of it? 

It also sounds to me like they got tired of you jerking them around about signing papers, no you arent signing, well you are going to get them to get papers in October, no you arent.....and decided not to get involved with you


----------



## FarmboyBill

I KNOW where the place is. I justg don't know the address of it, OR the legal description.

As to your last. Could be.


----------



## Dixie Bee Acres

Bill, if you don't mind me offering an opinion, I have been following this thread a bit, and I can only base my opinion on what you say, ask and so forth in this thread.
You need to make up your mind what you are going to do.
You ask advice on how to proceed with every aspect of every detail of this deal. Then you disregard almost every bit of advice given.
I guess what I am trying to say is, you need to take a day or so, make some calls, compile some information, get your ducks in a row, then either crap or get off the pot.
Contact a lawyer, recontact the property owners, and get something in writing.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Its #559 page 19.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Dutchie, I just saw where you said I needed to be pre approved first. Im pre approved by 2 TWO Banks. Mine at American Heritage, and at Bank of the Lakes. I was pre approved by BOTL when we went out to look at this old house.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Lesley, I find that a saying mom used many times when I or my worthless bro would ask a question why the folks didn't do this or that. She would say, POOR PEOPLE HAVE POOR WAYS. Im finding that to be true.


----------



## FarmboyBill

I put several ads in CL a year ago when I first started looking. Never got ANY response.


----------



## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> I KNOW where the place is. I justg don't know the address of it, OR the legal description.
> 
> As to your last. Could be.


How did you find it without an address?


----------



## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> Dutchie, I just saw where you said I needed to be pre approved first. Im pre approved by 2 TWO Banks. Mine at American Heritage, and at Bank of the Lakes. I was pre approved by BOTL when we went out to look at this old house.


Pre approvals only last so long, usually 30 to 60 days, which you are well past now. 

I wish you would get some real help Bill, we have all bought homes, some of us several, but you haven't ever really bought a house with a mortgage from a bank and your lack of knowledge and your utter disdain at times for people giving you good advice concerns me.


----------



## FarmboyBill

AS I SAID BEFORE< I saw it a year ago for sale. Don't remember how I found it then, but im guessing that a realitor had it then and sent me there, it being a place on a list of places I looked at that the realitor had. NO I don't remember which realitor, Ive gone through an easy 1/2 doz since then.


----------



## Molly Mckee

I don't think Bill knows the difference between pre qualification and pre approved. He missed the part about telling the truth about your finances, and he has never said he has anything in writing from the bank. If he did he would know the terms of the loan he has available.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Yes I know the Pre Approvals only last so long. BOTL told me to not come in till I had a place lined up, and they would give me a pre ap. My credit rating hasn't changed. Im not worried in the least about my bank, and not really about the other. 
IM GOING TO SEE A LAWYER sometime this month to see about the house here. I was at my Xs and her and DS, who has bought a house through a bank both said that they believe that I can take anything of mine that isn't on a foundation that is buried in the ground, or guyed down with straps, cable and anhors. AS I SAID, IM GOING TO SEE A LAWYER about it to be sure. BUT
Since they live in OKLA< and NONE of you do, I feel better about it. Well see.


----------



## FarmboyBill

MK I have seen BOTH the written papers from BOTH banks as to the Pre whatever you wish to call it. The pre approval and the Pre qualification, Im pretty sure are nearly the same thing. IF you are insuating that I lied about anything, I didn't. I answered every question THEY ASKED honestly.


----------



## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> MK I have seen BOTH the written papers from BOTH banks as to the Pre whatever you wish to call it. The pre approval and the Pre qualification, Im pretty sure are nearly the same thing. IF you are insuating that I lied about anything, I didn't. I answered every question THEY ASKED honestly.


Pre-qualified and Pre-approval is much different that the hoops you will have to jump through to get the actual mortgage with the bank, eh gods, you don't even know. For Pre Approval they pretty much run you through the various credit bureaus, and if your credit is good they approve you. But Bill they are going to want information on where you are living now and if you are up to date with payments, which you aren't once they start to write the actual mortgage!!! Plus an appraisal on the land, land you don't even know for sure of the address and the owners won't even call you back at this point. 

I know you want to "farm", but why don't you look at some of the nice little houses on the edge of Nowata, some of them have a good amount of land for the price! Nice little houses with running water and indoor toilets, a good yard for a garden and some chickens.


----------



## Shygal

Bill, what do you heat the place you are living in now, for the winter?


----------



## FarmboyBill

As to your last, Ill get there in 20yrs.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Wood I usta have pics in here of me cutting wood with wedges, sledges, chain saw, and Buzz saw.


----------



## Shygal

Do you have enough to get you through the winter there, in case this doesnt go well?


----------



## FarmboyBill

Nope. Ill start cutting this month, but im way behind as I didn't cut any last year. Thought id be gone by now and wanted to use up all the wood I had cut the year before. I did. now im short.


----------



## Grumpy old man

This thread must surely be an attempt at Jockularity !


----------



## starjj

Is it just me or doesn't it make sense that one of the FIRST things you would know about a property is the address and the legal description? Plats on property are easily avaliable at the court house.


----------



## Allen W

address? whats an address? There is places I can't order from because I don't have a street adress.


----------



## starjj

IF I was really interested in a property AND I had bothered to go there and trespass and take pictures THEN I would be darn sure I had the address and had gone to the court house and researched the plat BUT that is just me.


----------



## FarmboyBill

But that is just U


----------



## Guest

FarmboyBill said:


> But that is just U


and me


----------



## Grumpy old man

Jockularity I say ,Jockularity ,Jockularity ,Jockularity !


----------



## Shygal

I just don't understand how he keeps going back there without knowing an address


----------



## starjj

FarmboyBill said:


> But that is just U


AND that is just any sane person that 1/2 way knows what their doing AND how to do it. You don't go as far as to tresspass to take pictures, go to the bank to get pre approval (not in writing). Make plans as to what you are going to do with land (you don't even know if you have a snowball's chance of getting), waste gas doing all this 1/2 butt things and NOT get an address and go to the court house and research plat AND find out if it is current on taxes or if it has have any liens on it, but your right that is just me and apparently Lesley also who I respect.


----------



## starjj

Because he knows where it is now. If I know where a place is I can go there and not know the address but IF I was going to buy it I would know the address at the very least.


----------



## starjj

Grumpy old man said:


> Jockularity I say ,Jockularity ,Jockularity ,Jockularity !


 
AHEM! to that.


----------



## Shygal

starjj said:


> AND that is just any sane person that 1/2 way knows what their doing AND how to do it. You don't go as far as to tresspass to take pictures, go to the bank to get pre approval (not in writing). Make plans as to what you are going to do with land (you don't even know if you have a snowball's chance of getting), waste gas doing all this 1/2 butt things and NOT get an address and go to the court house and research plat AND find out if it is current on taxes or if it has have any liens on it, but your right that is just me and apparently Lesley also who I respect.



And me


----------



## frogmammy

Shygal said:


> I just don't understand how he keeps going back there without knowing an address


Well, Lemings do something like that....

but they don't go back....

Mon


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> I just don't understand how he keeps going back there without knowing an address


 I have been going to my brother's house for 40 years and don't his address nor do I know if he owes any money on it. If I were to buy it, the title company would tell me if there were any liens against the property. It ain't that complicated!


----------



## starjj

frogmammy said:


> Well, Lemings do something like that....
> 
> but they don't go back...
> 
> Mon


 :hysterical:


----------



## farmgal

Hey, enough with the meanness.


----------



## KansasFarmgirl

I would say, at least make sure you can afford this place, because getting out of this loan with a bank won't be anything like the loan you have now where you say the people will just sell the place again and make a tidy profit and allow you to just walk away carefree. 

A bank isn't going to let you pay half payments and go on living on the property and allow you to sneak off in the night without affecting your credit or your next loan. 

And I, personally, would not include any income in your figurings that is not "set in stone" income. Like gifts from family members that could end for any reason or hay and calf sales that depend on your health to come to fruition. Make sure you can afford it on the income you are certain of. I wouldn't count on family for farm work or money when you figure if you can afford this. 

If you cannot afford this place on your "certain" income, then I would look for something cheaper, even if it is smaller, that I could certainly afford and still have plenty of money left over for living on. Even if it is not my dream home, at least I would know I could afford it this time and plan on living there a long time, stress-free and comfortable.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Well, Since you say your a girl, instead of an ole woman, the last word which is seemingly wanted by most women here to describe themselves, AND, cause your a NE Kansan, as I once was, Ill try to answer your concerns as ive had much practice in answering them several times before.

Putting the pencil to it, I should be able to manage the payment.
I got behind paying CS, A Bill that was not expected, or at least all of it, and to last so long. I will not be paying CS ever again. 
I imagine my current income is as set in stone more so than MOST peoples


----------



## CrazyMooseFarm

Its got water behind it and water besides it. Wouldn't that make it flood plain anyways?


----------



## KansasFarmgirl

Just saying that's what I would do as far as figuring my income if I were you, as I would not want you in a fix again, cuz it won't come out so easy this time. 

I know some of us have who have counted income for what they "expect" their income will be, I would not do that again. I don't like the stress of "if's" when the "if's" don't go my way. 

I, myself, got in a fix when I purchased my property. My mom was supposed to move with me, living in the manufactured home, and pay half on the outbuilding I was going to live in. Well, after I signed all the contracts, she backed out! I ended up emptying my retirement and putting $25K on credit cards. Luckily for me, I was able to do this. Don't know what I would have done otherwise. Woulda been in a financial pickle, as my mom was supposed to sell her house to pay the $55K we put on the outbuilding and I am not on her deed. 

I'm now finally back out of credit card debt with a hard lesson learned. NEVER consider income unless it is "set in concrete" income!!!! Don't make plans if I don't know FOR SURE the money will be there, barring death or my company going under. And DO NOT depend on family for nothing!!! 

p.s. I am old enough, I appreciate being called a girl!  LOL


----------



## FarmboyBill

So, hows the weather up around Leavenworth/Atchison nowadays?
IF ANYBODY thinks that things cant happen that will disrupt the best laid plans, theys just fooling themselves. I live offa SS, But still I worry about the next check coming in.


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## Terri in WV

FarmboyBill said:


> I should be able to manage the payment.
> 
> A Bill that was not expected,


These two things jumped out at me and is what has me really worried about your situation Bill.

You need to KNOW that you can manage the payments and you need to PLAN for the unexpected. While you can't plan for everything that may come up, you know that things will happen. A car's going to need maintenance, a water tank replaced, a roof repaired, etc. 

If you don't know for sure that you can manage the payments and have a cushion for the unexpected, you'll be in worse shape than what you are now. The owner has let you slide for years and years, a bank won't.


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## KansasFarmgirl

The weather has been HOT! Like it's supposed to be, but we had such a nice, cool summer I was hoping to get by without hitting the upper 90's this year. Didn't happen, but at least July and August were extremely nice.


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## Grumpy old man

Now Bill I say this with all do respect and since no one else will , Being as how your on SS and money is tight why not consider a place closer to your family and smaller so you can manage it better and have a little spare money to try and enjoy some of the things that may be a blessing at this time in your life ? Rather than getting tied up with another property that may have you over whelmed with upkeep and bills ? Also trying to take down those sheds is a disaster waiting to happen and maybe it would just be easier for you to walk away from all of it and start in a new easier to maintain place you could be happier at ? Rebuilding and starting a new farm is young mans work maybe it's time to enjoy a little rocking chair and sunset on the porch ?


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## COSunflower

I think everyone should leave FBB alone and just let him do what he is going to do or hopes to do. When it is done, he can let us know and then the mystery of HOW he did it can be thoroughly discussed....


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## FarmboyBill

GOM I love rocking chairs. Aint ready to die in one yet,
Terri, I think about the things you've mentioned. I worry about getting the place near paid off and then my health getting bad temporarly or permanently, 15yrs is a liong way down the line for a 66yr old man. None of my parents had anything bad happen to them till they were in there 80s/90s, and I hope that I will be the same way. I don't know what there secret was. I think mine is that I never really worry. Im always busy pushing the envelope, reaching ever higher trying new and/or different things. Keeping cranking tractors and other thinigs, cutting wood with wedges, sledges, buzz saw has also, I think kept me in good shape.

BUT< IF push comes to shove, I guess I could do like the 107yr old man did to get outa being 108.


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## FarmboyBill

Nah Cos. I need the input. The snarky sarcasm I could do without, but respectful discussion is WAY Welcomed.


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## COSunflower

You have BROAD shoulders FBB!!!


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> BUT< IF push comes to shove, I guess I could do like the 107yr old man did to get outa being 108.



Wasn't that something? If l was 107 I dont think Id want to go the way he did


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## FarmboyBill

Nope. Id think in my sleep would work, BUT maybe he didn't know how old hed have to live to die that way. maybe he was incapated one way or another. maybe there was no one left who remembered or cared about him. nobody who remembered the views that he was raised with, the strictures of life that molded him all his life. Think about it. he went through 4 major wars. He saw, likely cars that had buggy wheels and no steering wheels to cars today. Planes that if they got 50ft above the ground were scared to death of the landing to jumbo jets of today, he was around way before radio, and lived to see face book, he went through the Depression, the Dust Bowl, since with Ken Burns help I saw that it went clear to Washington DC and FDR wrote his name on his desk in the dust. 
He had nobody to talk to about those days. Couldn't go down to the corner bar for a beer and shoot the bull with the boys. Women and sex were faint memories. His kids had had kids, who likely had had kids themselves, and nobody cared about great grandpa anymore. He was just old, and too much bother, and too strict, and in the way, and messy and smelly. WHO KNOWS why he went out the way he did. Im glad that he didn't hurt anybody himself, and just did what he thought he had to do to get outa this life.


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## FarmboyBill

Well Cos, When ya aint got a Broad, Broad shoulders helps LOL.


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## barnyardgal

FBB-you sure keep things interesting here with your ideas & some of them not bad ideas,just everyone has their own opinions as you know...your an 'older' feller working in a young man's mind just like some of us (older) folks here & our minds still good shape(most the time) but your body is getting worn out & ya keep chugging along-trying-got to give ya credit for trying though...you know what ya want so ya got to keep trying....if you give up on dreams-nothing happens.......but if ya work within your dreams/means sometimes it can happen & work out for ya at the right time.......

All i can say is stay within your means/money/health & go with a dream & good luck with your ventures~~


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## starjj

COSunflower said:


> I think everyone should leave FBB alone and just let him do what he is going to do or hopes to do. When it is done, he can let us know and then the mystery of HOW he did it can be thoroughly discussed....


 
Well if he didn't want or expect all opinons he shouldn't splash all his personal business on a public forum. 


IMO he likes the attention or he would have kept a LOT of what he said private.


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## frogmammy

I think, one way or the other, he enjoys himself.

Mon


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## no really

I think maybe this is the most interesting thread in this forum! I really need to get out more huh?


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## FarmboyBill

That's sad. No really, that's sad LOL.
I wish everyone could be as open as some think I am.


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## Grumpy old man

There is NO possible way this thread is anything more than a joke .


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## Guest

Grumpy old man said:


> There is NO possible way this thread is anything more than a joke .


You're new here, aren't you?


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## fordy

...............The odd thing is , it probably has garnered more participation by the general readership than any thread I can think of , lately ! 'Ole' Bill is keepin' the stew pot bubblin longer than any medicine man in darkest Africa ever could . It's kinda like a Chinese Fire Drill , everbody jumpin off the truck , so they run around lookin like they're actually gonna accomplish something........then ole Bill shows back Up with one more question and away we go...........pandamoanium reigns supreme for 40 or 30 answers to his question , then blessed silence till the next question , which is probably a question he's already asked back on page number 5 . , lol , fordy:teehee:


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## FarmboyBill

I think you got it naild Chevy lol


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## FarmboyBill

I WENT TO SEE A LAWYER TODAY
NOT OMNLY THAT, She is an OKLA LAWYER. I showed her the pics offa my camera, told her the details about me b eing way in arrears on the land payments. She said UNLESS there was some kind of a lean on them, there was no way I couldn't sell the house if/when I wanted. I went to land records at the courthouse as she suggested, and guess what?? There is NO lean against me since 1986.

I said online lawyers had told me that there was no way I could sell them due to my being behind that the owner of the land would take them. She said that THOSE SO CALLED LAWYERS need to be doing something else. I said I would tell them that.

U KNOW WHO YOU ARE. LOL


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## Shygal

Bill, no one here has acted like a lawyer. They were giving you advice , all the while TELLING YOU TO SEE A LAWYER.


I think your statement about the online lawyers is pretty insulting to everyone here that has been trying to advise you AND advising you to see a lawyer and not take everyones word for it. No one here has pretended to be a lawyer, or said that their word was law.

Not cool at all, Bill. :grump:


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## Echoesechos

Then sell the property you are currently living on. Pay the good people who have left you basically alone to do what you have wanted on the property, and start off on a good note on your next place. Makes sense to me. If property is valued at what you have been saying then you should clear out your loan to them easily. 

Glad you saw a lawyer. Probably settled some thoughts for you too. Now I'm not presenting myself as a lawyer so don't be thinking that now... LOL


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## Dixie Bee Acres

I may not be a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night


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## Guest

I'm glad that you consulted an Oklahoma attorney..
I'm glad that there is no lien on your buildings..
I'm glad that you informed the attorney that you were planning on moving out on the contract without the knowledge of the other party and that she said that was perfectly legal..


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## Shygal

bostonlesley said:


> I'm glad that you informed the attorney that you were planning on moving out on the contract without the knowledge of the other party and that she said that was perfectly legal..



I think I missed that part


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## FarmboyBill

SG I didn't mind the advice. I just didnt like being called stupid, and ignorant, and several ephetits by those giving their advice. I notice you didn't make mention of thinking THAT was rude.


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## FarmboyBill

Lesley, I can read between your lines.
#1 ZI told her that I was way in arrears on the property, and I told her why.
#2. I told her I was planning to move and to sell the bldgs. BEFORE I moved. She said that was legal.
#3 She didn't ask, and I assumed that she, being a lawyer, knew that I wasn't going to tell the people I was selling them . I did assume that, she, being a lawyer, would ask all pertinent questions to make an evaluation.


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## Brighton

You are not stupid Bill, but you are naive and uneducated on purchasing a real home with a real mortgage!

Dozen, if not double dozens of people have tried to help you and you always end up insulting them, which you have again just done.


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## FarmboyBill

Brighton, IF you want, I can go all through these posts, and fine IN EVERY PAGE, where ive been insulted. Wanna bet I cant. That dosent seem to bother you or others any.
Its one thing to give good advice. Its one thing to state your openions, its one thing to argue your point with conviction. ITS QUITE ANOTHER, to belittle, and slam, and run down someone just because they didn't take the advice, WHICH for the most part they didn't ask for anyway.

Im GLAD to get good advice. I move VERY slowly. Ill admit to that. IF you can see where I EVER ran down someone cause they DIDNT Take my advice, Show me where its at. Where I called someone ignorant, and stupid cause someone didn't take my invaluable advice, which they might not have asked for anyway. Show me where it is?


----------



## coolrunnin

FarmboyBill said:


> Lesley, I can read between your lines.
> #1 ZI told her that I was way in arrears on the property, and I told her why.
> #2. I told her I was planning to move and to sell the bldgs. BEFORE I moved. She said that was legal.
> #3 She didn't ask, and I assumed that she, being a lawyer, knew that I wasn't going to tell the people I was selling them . I did assume that, she, being a lawyer, would ask all pertinent questions to make an evaluation.


You would be wrong she takes the information given and makes a legal judgement with that information inferring nothing.

what your going to do is probably legal, not very moral but legal, but then again the family owning the property could have foreclosed the first time you were short a payment so i wouldn't worry about doing the right thing with them either.

You want some good advice: if you want to buy land quite spending money you dont have on toys you dont need, anytime i wanted to buy land when times were tight i didn't spend five dollars that didn't need spent much less the coin you talk of spending.


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## starjj

So glad you saw a lawyer, so glad you were not totally upfront with her, so glad she told you what you wanted to hear. so glad she did not ask the "right" questions.

With legal advice like that you should have that new place in no time at all. LOL


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## jwal10

Bill has been around for a long time, here and the world. He knows what he is doing here and enjoys being RIGHT on the edge. He likes the attention. 

Bill, a lot of the ladies here want to mother you, you protest too much. BUT. You like the attention from the ladies. 

This thread has made 10 rounds of the old barn (shed), you kept them chasing your next idea, just like you like it. 

Good luck with everything and keep chasing the dream, your dream. Just don't get hurt and please don't hurt others. Everyone tried to help you and asked nothing in return. You just cannot take that like a gentleman. You say you are open and it makes you happy, I don't see it....James


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## FarmboyBill

CR. Suzi I haver owned for 4yrs. ive had it in the garage for 4 mos. That's a slight bit linger than I was going to try to get this place. I couldn't get out of paying for this pk.


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## jwal10

FarmboyBill said:


> CR. Suzi I haver owned for 4yrs. ive had it in the garage for 4 mos. That's a slight bit linger than I was going to try to get this place. I couldn't get out of paying for this pk.


Huh. The bottle Bill, Ease up on the bottle.:icecream:....James


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## coolrunnin

FarmboyBill said:


> CR. Suzi I haver owned for 4yrs. ive had it in the garage for 4 mos. That's a slight bit linger than I was going to try to get this place. I couldn't get out of paying for this pk.


You have been trying to buy a place for over a year.


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## FarmboyBill

A PLACE, NOT this place. I wanted it fixed cause I intended to be looking around up there and wanted a pk that didn't use much gas.


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## coolrunnin

Make all the excuses you need to. 

Fact remains you need cash to buy and you have no cash!


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## Molly Mckee

Bill, if you want good advice, you have to give complete information. You've heard garbage in garbage out---if you don't give the lawyer or the banker all the information you have, you are wasting everyone's time and your money. It's your money, why on earth would you not give the lawyer all the information? What the lawyer told you depends on the facts you told her, if she didn't ask a question because it didn't occur to her, her advise could be completely wrong. However, you are the one going to suffer for the bad advise.


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## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> A PLACE, NOT this place. I wanted it fixed cause I intended to be looking around up there and wanted a pk that didn't use much gas.


...........Bill , you need a dually , crewcab ! You can haul several wimmins and pull your tractor at the same time ! My 2003 Chevy dually , 8.1 gets almost 10 mpg . , fordy


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> SG I didn't mind the advice. I just didnt like being called stupid, and ignorant, and several ephetits by those giving their advice. I notice you didn't make mention of thinking THAT was rude.



Um then you didn't notice me sticking up for you and your dreams, apparently either


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## FarmboyBill

Yes I did, BUT I also noticed on several other pages where youd like to stick things lol.

What else was I supposed to tell the lawyer. I told her that I had bought the place 32yrs ago. I was paying CS on 3 kids and it ran for 25yrs, and I got behind on my payments. I said the interest was 8% and the interest just caused the existing amount to get bigger. I finally got the CS Paid, and after awhile I realized I could never pay it off in the time remaining and that he would foreclose on me at that time and take it back, so I just started in the last few years making 1/2 payments.
What else should I have told her that I didn't??


----------



## Guest

FarmboyBill said:


> Yes I did, BUT I also noticed on several other pages where youd like to stick things lol.
> 
> What else was I supposed to tell the lawyer. I told her that I had bought the place 32yrs ago. I was paying CS on 3 kids and it ran for 25yrs, and I got behind on my payments. I said the interest was 8% and the interest just caused the existing amount to get bigger. I finally got the CS Paid, and after awhile I realized I could never pay it off in the time remaining and that he would foreclose on me at that time and take it back, so I just started in the last few years making 1/2 payments.
> What else should I have told her that I didn't??


The obvious...as in, " What legal remedies COULD the land owner have against me WHEN ( not "'if" ) I default on the remainder of the loan by walking away and not telling him?"


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## FarmboyBill

Well, I doubt if youll believe me, but I wished ida thought of that to ask her.


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## Molly Mckee

Make a list of questions and call her and ask. Oklahoma has some different land contract laws and had major changes in 1976---but that shouldn't affect you.


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## FarmboyBill

Well Lesleys question is one.


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## Terri in WV

Bill, have you ever actually talked to your land owner to see how much you owe him? You said that you got behind and have only started making 1/2 payments in the last couple of years, so you might not owe as much as you think. It would seem that it'd be in your best interest to find out. You could possibly get the loan to pay him off and then sell it to finance your dream.

It would be better to be sure rather then to assume.


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## FarmboyBill

Terri I talked to him some 4yrs ago, and he said it was up to $90.000 then.
See, the interest gets paid before the principal. Or at least most of the payment is on interest. IF payments are missed or short, the intrest swollows up the payment and nothing is applied to the principal. SO, the next month, and so on, all the payment keeps going onto the interest with none going onto the principal.


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## frogmammy

FarmboyBill said:


> Terri I talked to him some 4yrs ago, and he said it was up to $90.000 then.
> See, the interest gets paid before the principal. Or at least most of the payment is on interest. IF payments are missed or short, the intrest swollows up the payment and nothing is applied to the principal. SO, the next month, and so on, all the payment keeps going onto the interest with none going onto the principal.


Yeah, that's how banks work, too. Frustrating.

Mon


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## Terri in WV

I'm glad to see that you have talked to him and that he's been very understanding.

Best of luck to you! One of us should get a break.


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## jwal10

I think you are taking the easy way out, no consequences for not keeping your part of your agreement, just walk off. You have wrapped everything around in your head to make it alright to do this. It is not but who are we to judge. I hope that Karma does not be unkind to you in your future dealings on another property. Although I think it may be working against you already....James


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## FarmboyBill

OF course hes very understanding- - - In that he knows hes getting the place back.


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## jwal10

I could go back and see but what year did you buy, how much did you pay. How many years this has gone on. I believe you once said that you were way behind quite a few years before. 10 or so after you bought. If the owner had repossessed the property when it all started, how much money he would be ahead. Being it is bare land, no water, land prices down, now and all....James


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## FarmboyBill

1981, 40Gs 32yrs 8% interest, 40yr note. The owner repossessed a couple other places that had stopped paying . This was a small ranch that had been broken up into 10s and 20s.


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> Terri I talked to him some 4yrs ago, and he said it was up to $90.000 then.
> See, the interest gets paid before the principal. Or at least most of the payment is on interest. IF payments are missed or short, the intrest swollows up the payment and nothing is applied to the principal. SO, the next month, and so on, all the payment keeps going onto the interest with none going onto the principal.



Ok wait. There is NO WAY you are up to 90000$ from a 40G loan. You have been paying off the interest, each month. None goes on to the principle but none ADDS to it either

Dont you keep track of your records? You are going to take this guys word for it that you own him nearly 100 grand? Seems to me if youve been paying the interest, then you should be owing him around 40 grand at the most.


----------



## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> 1981, 40Gs 32yrs 8% interest, 40yr note. The owner repossessed a couple other places that had stopped paying . This was a small ranch that had been broken up into 10s and 20s.


 In 1981, that was a very good rate even on a home loan . Home mortgage rates were double digits then.


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> Ok wait. There is NO WAY you are up to 90000$ from a 40G loan. You have been paying off the interest, each month. None goes on to the principle but none ADDS to it either
> 
> Dont you keep track of your records? You are going to take this guys word for it that you own him nearly 100 grand? Seems to me if youve been paying the interest, then you should be owing him around 40 grand at the most.


I doubt this loan interest rate works the same as a standard mortgage. It most likely is a Simple Interest Loan. The interest is calculated on the # of days since the last payment. Early in the loan life, if Bill were only a few days late, no money would go to principle and he would have accrued interest. Future payment would be applied to the accrued interest first, resulting in more accrued interest.

When a mortgage is foreclosed, the lender forecloses on the balance plus accrued interest, legal expense and any other expense the lender incurred. The balance owed or payoff can be a lot more than the original loan,

ETA: Interest on a 40 year loan at 8% is close to $100,000. And, that's if all payments were paid on time.


----------



## Shrek

Am I the only one thinking after 669 replies to this thread that it is no longer a simple post by Bill sharing his good fortune at finding a new place but has turned into some sort of FBB comedy internet game?

We all know Bill aint as splitting maul dumb as he puts on and his daughter and others close to him help him look out for himself.

I sort of figure down the line we will either find that he has renegotiated where he currently lives, has always had the new place deal sewn in or his daughter has figured out a nice place where he can putter out his time doing at least some of the things he enjoys.


If his situation really is as much hassle as he has been feeding into this thread , I hope he hasn't posted enough pertinent details to jinx whatever his plans are.


----------



## starjj

bostonlesley said:


> The obvious...as in, " What legal remedies COULD the land owner have against me WHEN ( not "'if" ) I default on the remainder of the loan by walking away and not telling him?"


Only the most obvious question you should have asked.:hair If I was in your situation I would want to know if I was going to be hauled into court for walking away on a signed contract. It is a LEGAL document you signed and since you were well over 18 years of age those pesky things due tend to hold up in court.


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## FarmboyBill

That's question #2


----------



## Grumpy old man

All I can say is KARMA is a :smack , And if I was the old property owner I'd probably be happier your gone and I can resell and finally get paid by someone willing to maintain the property correctly ,if your still months behind why would I think anything would change ? they are probably hoping you will walk away in the middle of the night and take the broken down buildings with you ! I would ! I'm Not trying to be mean just talking REALITY ! I know for a fact many of the property deals I have done any information I wanted ON ANY PROPERTY I had within 1-2 days Not months and getting approved for a loan takes less than 10 minutes today . Ahhh ! the wonders we find when posting to an anonymous web site !


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## farmgal

Bills original contract should state what will happen if he defaults. Most likely, he will just not get the deed. Most of the "owner hold" mortgages of that time were written in very general terms. Sounds like these people are fairly nice, as long as bills paying something, its just more like rent now. 

Got your original contract bill? The answer is there.


----------



## Terri

farmgal said:


> Bills original contract should state what will happen if he defaults. Most likely, he will just not get the deed. Most of the "owner hold" mortgages of that time were written in very general terms. Sounds like these people are fairly nice, as long as bills paying something, its just more like rent now.
> 
> Got your original contract bill? The answer is there.


Quite right! And, there might have been penalties written in for late payments or short payments. There is *NO* way that any of us will ever know!

Bill, here is a mortgage calculator for you to look at. You put in the numbers and it tells you the monthly payment. http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/loan-calculator.aspx


----------



## Grumpy old man

...............patiently waiting for the next DRAMATIC post .......................


----------



## FarmboyBill

Be patient.


----------



## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> Be patient.


 
...............Honestly Bill , for your own betterment , there is a real simple solution to your problem............Find a mobile for rent in the area that interests you ! Move all your 'Stuff' and get your life back on track ! The longer you maintain your current residence the CLOSER you get to a FORCED eviction ! Having to move without any , place to move TOO , poses problems you don't have IF , you move , NOW ! 
...............You can FIND a small property to purchase once your living IN the area , at your own leisure ! Isn't this obvious to you ? QUIT waiting on a property you will never beable to afford . , fordy :runforhills:


----------



## Grumpy old man

Bill , I have to say in some of your other posts/threads your spelling /punctuation/ ability to comprehend complex functions seems very intact yet this thread seems not the case ? Why ?


----------



## FarmboyBill

I have to say, Its all the same. Your just looking closer at my posts in here.


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## Grumpy old man

Okey dokey !


----------



## Classof66

Bill, what is your monthly payment now? And how much are you paying, the actual dollar amount?


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## coolrunnin

I dont think I would answer that on a public forum!


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## FarmboyBill

yep Good advice CR
\Me, Class of 65


----------



## elkhound

the one thing all who reads and posted on this thread....FBB is going to do what he wants and desires....no matter what....even if it hairlips the Pope....FBB cant be lead,driven or forced to drink water unless he wants it.

if bill is happy rowing his row boat in a mud puddle and there's a nice lake 50yards away....we just need let him be.all i can say is row harder bill and wipe the mud off ya teeth so i can see ya smile....get-r-done!!


----------



## Shygal

Grumpy old man said:


> Bill , I have to say in some of your other posts/threads your spelling /punctuation/ ability to comprehend complex functions seems very intact yet this thread seems not the case ? Why ?



Because Bill thinks it is funny for some reason, to post on here like he is talking like an uneducated country hick.

He is quite capable of speaking clearly yet chooses to make "accidental" sexual innuendo "typos", talk like he is ignorant, etc

I don't get the reason for it, other than his obvious enjoyment of stirring the pot


----------



## Allen W

Terri in WV said:


> Bill, have you ever actually talked to your land owner to see how much you owe him? You said that you got behind and have only started making 1/2 payments in the last couple of years, so you might not owe as much as you think. It would seem that it'd be in your best interest to find out. You could possibly get the loan to pay him off and then sell it to finance your dream.
> 
> It would be better to be sure rather then to assume.


Bill should ask them what they would take for a lump payment to sell the place to him. Every body involved knows they will never see all the back payments.


----------



## Classof66

I can't see why asking him what his payment is is so bad, since he has told us so much already. He should realize that if he can't make that payment in full, he sure cannot expect to make the one on the new property. I can understand privacy, etc. but privacy flew out this window a long time ago....


----------



## jwal10

He doesn't want the place anymore, too far away from family, never got water. etc. etc. etc. I think this place is clouding his thought process. It has water and he doesn't see any of the problems it might have. Anyway, this has gone on for years, no different than the past except, he thinks things are catching up to him, faster....James


----------



## Guest

fordy said:


> ...............Honestly Bill , for your own betterment , there is a real simple solution to your problem............Find a mobile for rent in the area that interests you ! Move all your 'Stuff' and get your life back on track ! The longer you maintain your current residence the CLOSER you get to a FORCED eviction ! Having to move without any , place to move TOO , poses problems you don't have IF , you move , NOW !
> ...............You can FIND a small property to purchase once your living IN the area , at your own leisure ! Isn't this obvious to you ? QUIT waiting on a property you will never beable to afford . , fordy :runforhills:


THIS, IMHO, is excellent advice...!!!!!!!!!!!


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## po boy

Per Bill it is a 40 year loan on 40,000 at 8%

That's 278.12 per month.


----------



## AngieM2

Know what - Bill?

I think you're doing it in a foolish manner if all is as you've described it, BUT it's your dream, your goal, your hope, your continued future and if you stop trying to reach the stars of the goal of your dream, (and maybe don't make it, but would be higher than not trying) then you'll start shrivelling up and becoming and old man waiting to die.

So, while I really don't think all choices you've mentioned are reasonable, or possible, I know if you don't try - it won't happen.

Best wishes.


----------



## jwal10

After reading all this and pondering it. I come up with this. He thought he could move up there, have what he wants, now. Settle in and everything would come around to him. Same process that happened in 1981. Bought him 32 years. In 32 years he will not have to worry about it again....James


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## Grumpy old man

banks don't wait 32 years on late payments


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## jwal10

The bank was/is only a back up plan, looks/sounds better. He was hoping the owners might carry, after he was all settled in. After all he is still living in 1981....James


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## Shygal

jwal10 said:


> He doesn't want the place anymore, too far away from family, never got water. etc. etc. etc. I think this place is clouding his thought process. It has water and he doesn't see any of the problems it might have. Anyway, this has gone on for years, no different than the past except, he thinks things are catching up to him, faster....James


No, this place does not have water either. It has city water AVAILABLE if he pays for it.


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## Shygal

jwal10 said:


> The bank was/is only a back up plan, looks/sounds better. He was hoping the owners might carry, after he was all settled in. After all he is still living in 1981....James



No the bank is not a back up plan, he has said all along he is going to get a mortgage :shrug:

Bill has enough problems without people making up some more for him.


----------



## swamp man

Bill, I ain't big on offering unsolicited advice, but you're my friend and it looks like you're headed into disaster.
....so....
Forget the hay farming. It eats up acreage and all said, it doesn't turn much profit.
what about something smaller? You don't need ten acres, and you don't need a dang cow. I promise you, you will be able to run yourself just as ragged as you want on an acre. That's plenty of room for a big garden and some birds.


----------



## starjj

Nick, More than a few people here have said the same thing. Bill is not listening to any of it. He wants what he wants no matter if he can afford it or not. He seems to have the idea that he is not really going to downsize until he is OLD in this case older.
I have 10 acres myself 1/2 is wooded so I don't have to maintain it. The 1/2 that ain't wooded is pretty much a full time job to maintain. I planted really small this year and probably won't plant at all next year. I had two cows and a calf at one time. They are a LOT of work. I sold them. Now I just have the mule and except for a few short rides a year she is pretty much a pasture pet that keeps the grass down.I am just a bit younger than Bill and I am no longer willing to spend all my time pushing myself to the limit.

We all dream we can do it all, until we admitt that we can't and we have to adjust to reality. It is not a bad thing you just adjust to what is reality but Bill is not in that place yet.


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## Lazy J

FBB:

I just watched my father endure a quadruple bypass and wrestle with the decision to down size the Old McDonald menagerie he had which consisted of chickens, ducks, cattle, turkeys, geese, and sheep. He is your generation and is feeling better about not having to deal with the daily chores.

Jim


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## wr

Will a US bank allow someone who is of retirement age 40 years to pay off a mortgage?


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## jwal10

Shygal said:


> No, this place does not have water either. It has city water AVAILABLE if he pays for it.


 
Many people in the country have system water, especially where water is scarce or deep....James


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## jwal10

Shygal said:


> No the bank is not a back up plan, he has said all along he is going to get a mortgage :shrug:
> 
> Bill has enough problems without people making up some more for him.


 
He can not make the payment he owes on the place he has. This place is 1 1/2 times more money. He has no idea what he is up against 30 years later. The only way he can make this work is owner financing, period. There is much more here than he is telling, as usual....James


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## FarmboyBill

Its a 15yr note. 

I can witch water. I found many veins in around the barn


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## Guest

wr said:


> Will a US bank allow someone who is of retirement age 40 years to pay off a mortgage?


30 years..yes


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## Lazy J

The payment on a 15 year note for $45,000 is about $360 per month, he can't handle the less than $300 payment on his current contract. 

Oh wait a minute that was because of Child Support, those darn kids!


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## Rick

FarmboyBill said:


> QUESTION. Is the emptying of the septic tank USUALLY the obligation of the seller??????????????????????????


The contents of the septic system are considered to be a fixture, and therefore the sellers are prohibited from removing the contents.


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## po boy

wr said:


> Will a US bank allow someone who is of retirement age 40 years to pay off a mortgage?


 I don't believe a US bank is currently writing 40 year loans. However, If FBB were 85 and financially able and credit qualified, he could get a 30 year loan.

It's illegal to discriminate because of age unless the person is not OLD enough to enter into a contract.


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## po boy

Lazy J said:


> FBB:
> 
> I just watched my father endure a quadruple bypass and wrestle with the decision to down size the Old McDonald menagerie he had which consisted of chickens, ducks, cattle, turkeys, geese, and sheep. He is your generation and is feeling better about not having to deal with the daily chores.
> 
> Jim


 I just watched my 81 year old neighbor cut down a large tree, cut it up and stacked all of it on the curb. However, it was only 30 inches in diameter.


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## FarmboyBill

The bank says this will be a 15yr note.


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## coolrunnin

po boy said:


> I just watched my 81 year old neighbor cut down a large tree, cut it up and stacked all of it on the curb. However, it was only 30 inches in diameter.


My neighbor is 76 his wife is 73 they still run a 320 acre cattle farm needing very little help from anyone.


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## coolrunnin

Lazy J said:


> The payment on a 15 year note for $45,000 is about $360 per month, he can't handle the less than $300 payment on his current contract.
> 
> Oh wait a minute that was because of Child Support, those darn kids!


dont forget an extra $100 for the taxes and insurance!


----------



## po boy

coolrunnin said:


> My neighbor is 76 his wife is 73 they still run a 320 acre cattle farm needing very little help from anyone.


 LOL,

The guy I mentioned has Parkinson's disease, has the best garden and landscaping in the area. He also is able to spend a couple days a week assisting his SIL in handling her affairs.


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## wr

bostonlesley said:


> 30 years..yes


Thanks, it doesn't work the same up here.


----------



## po boy

wr said:


> I've read comments about insurance, does that pay off the mortgage if an owner dies before the mortgage is paid off?


That's most likely 3rd. party and very expensive. It's not offered by Fannie, Freddie, FHA, VA or USDA.
ETA: It this is an issue with the borrower, the best option is to take out a term life policy to cover the loan.


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## Shygal

I believe after a certain age you are not allowed to get PMI, you must have 20 percent down


----------



## Shygal

po boy said:


> That's most likely 3rd. party and very expensive. It's not offered by Fannie, Freddie, FHA, VA or USDA.



Well I have a FHA loan and PMI for 30 dollars a month. i don't think that is that expensive.


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## po boy

Shygal said:


> I believe after a certain age you are not allowed to get PMI, you must have 20 percent down


 NO!, It's a violation of law. If you are of legal age, normal underwriting guidelines apply.


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## jwal10

FarmboyBill said:


> Its a 15yr note.
> 
> I can witch water. I found many veins in around the barn


How deep. You will need a deep cased well, close to the barn. Did you ever find any water on the place you are on?

....James


----------



## Guest

It's beyond my comprehension how anyone could live on & farm a property for 32 years with no water .


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> Well I have a FHA loan and PMI for 30 dollars a month. i don't think that is that expensive.


Lordy Mercy. It ain't that complicated. He was talking about insurance that would pay off the loan if you die!!
ETA: This
In Addition Pmi would not pay off your loan.


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## po boy

WV Hillbilly said:


> It's beyond my comprehension how anyone could live on & farm a property for 32 years with no water .


 Camels!


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## jwal10

When you have little, you need little. He has said he couldn't have livestock because of it. Sounds like rabbits and chickens are/were hard enough.

No one wants this for Bill more than I do, but he has to wake up and see what is possible. He is wasting a lot of time, concentrating on a what if. 

Bill, Follow through and get on with it before you are without anywhere to go. I know you have backups, hopefully they include being able to keep your beloved tractors and equipment. Is there a possibility to get up near your DS to make this all easier. Can you do something with your DS, give you a little area to work with?. As you say this may be the toughest winter yet, in so many ways....James


----------



## Shygal

po boy said:


> NO!, It's a violation of law. If you are of legal age, normal underwriting guidelines apply.



My father bought a home 6 years ago at age 74, he was denied PMI and had to have 20 percent down.


----------



## Shygal

po boy said:


> lordy mercy. It ain't that complicated. He was talking about insurance that would pay off the loan if you die!!
> Eta: this
> in addition pmi would not pay off your loan.



i know that.


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> My father bought a home 6 years ago at age 74, he was denied PMI and had to have 20 percent down.


 A 22 yr old can be denied PMI and the lender can make an 80% loan. Happens all the time. If he was turned down because of age, he should filed a complaint.


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## ceresone

I;m beginning to wonder if he could just print ALL of this thread,. bind it--and sell as a book?


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## wr

FBB, will the loan payments be such that it will allow you enough additional money to do the repairs and upgrades you'll need? Living in a large box stall for the winter is one thing but at some point, you're going to need to live in a home with proper heat and running water. I realize you're looking at a free mobile home to place on the land but you would still need resources to cover moving costs, connect services like water, power and a septic system.


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## Grumpy old man

All do respect but every picture he has posted shows a hermits existence at best . maybe the best thing he could do is start a donation page on face book and get some help to raise his standard of living to at least running water and a warm place to lay his head . Bill if your interested I'd be inclined to donate a few days time if we could work it out to come out and help you get in a better situation for yourself ? and I'm sure there might be a couple others who may have some spare time / supplies or funds to help you out .


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## FarmboyBill

Thanks for the thought. That's what I got family for. The move will be in stages. No help for that. Cant take a whole chaw on getting from here to there, and being set up again. Living in that A roof outbuilding which is around 10 X 18 will work through winter. Its close, relatively tight, and will be easy to insulate. It is on a concrete floor. There is a hole in one side of the wall for a small stove pipe. IF I have a rocker, a futon, my MV, Refrig, TV and puter, I can live in it. Come spring when, hopfully people are moving old trailers off and new er trailers on, I will find one close by.
The other idea is, After I get all the small stuff stored in the 12 X 36 outbuilding you havnt seen as it sets 50ft away from the house, I might find I have more room in there after we get it hauled.
Someone asked if I ever got water here. After 3 trys, I got water. I went this spring to case in the well hole and dropped a rope down the hole. It was drilled to a depth of 187ft. The rope only dropped 50ft. Me and my neighbor have never got along. The well is around 40ft from his line. I figure when they built the new house which seemingly cost them the place, and I had heard they were starting to have problems with there water supply, that they took some dirt and filled mine up. I found lots of veins down by the house. First well they hit good water at 30ft. I had told the driller I had a G note. He was charging a 100 a foot, so he kept drilling till he hit salt water and ruined the well. He told me that he didn't think the water vein he had struck would give much water. I thought ANY would be better than what I currently had then. NONE. Next one was c lose to a pond that only went dry in the summer months, July to Sept. They couldn't find anything there.


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## fordy

...............Bill , Did you sell the old White truck ? , fordy


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## Shygal

Grumpy old man said:


> All do respect but every picture he has posted shows a hermits existence at best . maybe the best thing he could do is start a donation page on face book and get some help to raise his standard of living to at least running water and a warm place to lay his head . Bill if your interested I'd be inclined to donate a few days time if we could work it out to come out and help you get in a better situation for yourself ? and I'm sure there might be a couple others who may have some spare time / supplies or funds to help you out .



Ok..........I know you are trying to be nice, but its not our place to judge where someone else lives.
There are people on here that live in yurts, storage containers, tiny houses, campers, tents, etc.

What is wrong with living a hermit's existance? Isn't that sort of what a lot of us are STRIVING For? 
If Bill is happy then he is happy. Its not up to us to decide what he should live in, or what any of us should live in.


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## FarmboyBill

Nope Fordy. I got it at 8. Next month 7 Nov 6 Dec 5.


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## KansasFarmgirl

Lazy J said:


> The payment on a 15 year note for $45,000 is about $360 per month, he can't handle the less than $300 payment on his current contract.
> 
> Oh wait a minute that was because of Child Support, those darn kids!


When I asked if he could afford payments on the new place, he blamed getting behind on his current payments on unforeseen circumstances (child support) but in post # 656, page 22, he came out with why he doesn't pay the full payment. 

"I finally got the CS Paid, and after awhile_ I realized I could never pay it off in the time remaining and that he would foreclose on me at that time and take it back, so I just started in the last few years making 1/2 payments."_

It sounds like he could be making higher payments, but doesn't want to.


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## Shygal

Hm I didnt see that how he decided to make just half payments in the past few years. not cool


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## FarmboyBill

yup. Its true. When I called him around 5yrs ago, and he said I was $90.000 in the hole, I knew_ could never get it paid off before the contract ran out. I decidef I wasn't going to make full payments every month, then kick me out anyway at the end of the contract so I went to making 1/2 payments. I figured if he kicked me out at that time, It was going to happen anyway_


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## KansasFarmgirl

You act like your running off in the night isn't going to affect the owner because "he can just sell the place anyway," but this man is used to having a monthly income (albeit only half what it should be) from his land sale. So when you leave and suddenly quit paying, he is not going to have the income he has been counting on. It could be months or years before he can sell/rent the land again and he may have bills to pay like everyone else. 

I don't think you've given much thought or consideration to him since the day you signed a contract with him. 

If he had some notice, at least he could be trying to find a new buyer or renter. Maybe he would do a refinance with you. It sounds like to me you've taken advantage of the man for your own gain for years and plan to continue to do so up until you're done using him, showing no integrity of character whatsoever. 

Sorry to be so blunt but being an "old timer" like yourself, most of us back in the day were taught to respect other people and honor our word. If we couldn't honor our word for some reason, we owned up to it and tried our best to make things right with the person. 

I don't care if he's a rich man and all the money goes into a savings account, you're still doing him wrong.


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## Grumpy old man

Well, From all the pictures I've seen bill could sell off all those old tractors and have enough to move where ever he wanted ,Some of those pictures show enough scrap metal to have a small fortune , I offered to come out and help free of charge and I live in East Tn and he declined any need of help and stated that's what family is for ...So as always in stories like this there's way more to the story than we will ever know !


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## starjj

Yes long ago Bill wrote that HE decided he wasn't going to make full payments not that he COULDN'T make full payments but it wasn't to HIS advantage to do so at that point.

One thing I don't understand is apparently Bill has NO idea what he owes other than taking the seller's word for it because he says he called him and asked. I would think someone would keep records of what they owe on a contract but hey that is just me.

He further states that he never said it was right as to what he is doing but tends to justify in his own mind. Saying God will take care of me no matter what becomes a justication for doing just about anything.

We all live by our own moral code some just bend it to fit their lifestyle.


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## Dutchie

Grumpy old man said:


> Well, From all the pictures I've seen bill could sell off all those old tractors and have enough to move where ever he wanted ,Some of those pictures show enough scrap metal to have a small fortune , I offered to come out and help free of charge and I live in East Tn and he declined any need of help and stated that's what family is for ...So as always in stories like this there's way more to the story than we will ever know !


I think you were very nice to offer.


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## FarmboyBill

As I said also.
Dutchie, Ill be going up there tomorrow to the courthouse to find out what I can about the place. Address, legal discription, any leins, ect. Ill let you know what I find,
AND thank you again for your kind offer of help.


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## Lazy J

FarmboyBill said:


> As I said also.
> Dutchie, Ill be going up there tomorrow to the courthouse to find out what I can about the place. Address, legal discription, any leins, ect. Ill let you know what I find,
> AND thank you again for your kind offer of help.


Why not try all that online right now?

http://nowata.oklahoma.usassessor.com/Shared/base/LiteSearch/Search.php


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## Grumpy old man

That would be too easy , Between county records and Zillow , Lets see I think I could find all the info I needed to buy anywhere within 10 minutes ? And with the ease of direct deposit of his SSI to his account and direct withdraw for his mortgage payment he would never miss a payment and still be able to live on whats left with a roof over his head ! Same goes for electric and water bills ,How much easier could it get ?


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## frogmammy

I don't think "easy" fits his criteria.

Mon


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## Dutchie

Lazy J said:


> Why not try all that online right now?
> 
> http://nowata.oklahoma.usassessor.com/Shared/base/LiteSearch/Search.php


Lacy it is not that simple. If it were I would habeen able to do that for him already. Those of you who dont live in rural OK dont necessarily understand this. While I agree that Bill is not always ligical, please dont sit in judgment of things you guys dont have full understanding of.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2


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## Lazy J

frogmammy said:


> I don't think "easy" fits his criteria.
> 
> Mon


Usin dat darn new fangled cumpooter stuff jess ain't what FBB figgered on tryin. You'ns don't unnerstand that he has a reputation to maintian.


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## Guest

Dutchie said:


> Lacy it is not that simple. If it were I would habeen able to do that for him already. Those of you who dont live in rural OK dont necessarily understand this. While I agree that Bill is not always ligical, please dont sit in judgment of things you guys dont have full understanding of.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2


just curious..what makes Oklahoma rural areas any more difficult to search online than, say, Missouri? Just using my uncle's last name, I easily accessed the parcel number of his land, annual taxes, and appraised value..and he's in Nowata 
County, OK.


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## FarmboyBill

I just got done calling the assessors office and got the (I HOPE) location legal of the place. Its 10.81 acres. Im going to call them again and find out if its in a flood plain. They had me call clerks office to see about leins/judgements, but THEY wouldn't tell me anything over the ph when I called THEM. 
Doubt theyed tell YOU over the puter either.


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## jwal10

You all have to understand....Bill is sitting back looking at all this having a big chuckle. He already told you. Mom says "Poor people have poor ways", and she was not just talking about money. The reason he is here is because he is finally worried the owner of the place MIGHT come and kick him off. He has had 30+ years of poor choices. He has done it to himself. He is not asking for help, never has, he is asking for ideas. The more you throw out the more he is confused by it all, BUT....the more ideas he has to dream about, talk about, run through his mind. This all keeps his mind off the real problem of maybe, not having a home. He has backup plans in place, he is not dumb. Right back to "Poor people have poor ways" 

He does know he needs better, he is getting old. He needs family around him, he has little else in life, but dreams and memories. He sees that all this talking, not doing, is getting him into a bind. He will dream, talk, mull, ponder and try to make it right in his mind. Will he do anything before being kicked off. We will see. 

The sands of time, Oklahoma sand runs slow. But it does blow. Good lick BILL....James


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## FarmboyBill

Nowata has NO WATA on the place. IT IS NOT IN A FLOOD ZONE


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## FarmboyBill

You have got a lot of it right James, OTHER than me worrying about being kicked offa here. IF it happens, it happens. I believe where one door shuts, another one opens IF we are receptive to that process, and are steadily looking for it.


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## jwal10

Dutchie said:


> Lacy it is not that simple. If it were I would habeen able to do that for him already. Those of you who dont live in rural OK dont necessarily understand this. While I agree that Bill is not always ligical, please dont sit in judgment of things you guys dont have full understanding of.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2


 
Do you have the info to fill out the form online? Bill said back 20 pages or so that he got the info for his DD but keeps saying he doesn't really know. IF he did/does he can do it himself, or give it to you. My county is very poor but I can find most of what I need online to make a decision on weather to buy or not. I have bought 20 properties in the last 6 years this way. One trip to the county office and then to a realtor and finish the deal. I just show up and sign. Not much to do when there is no house to check out. Bill has been up there plenty of times to have all the info needed. Just not as much fun as stringing it out here.:viking:....James


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## jwal10

FarmboyBill said:


> You have got a lot of it right James, OTHER than me worrying about being kicked offa here. IF it happens, it happens. I believe where one door shuts, another one opens IF we are receptive to that process, and are steadily looking for it.


 
I know Bill, that is why I said, you have a backup plan. You have said so, you just hope to do better. 

Really Bill, find a place up there to move to, temporarily. Keep the few, most important things, sell the rest and move up there, then find your dream place. Can you store it at the kids for a bit?

....James


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## jwal10

Bill, this IS NOT the place for you. If you really want to find a place, find one with a house. You can find one for the same money. You can move in, work on everything over time and get nearer to what you need/want. It would be so much easier if you were up there. I know you are finding out how hard it is selling your things, both someone to buy it and having it gone, but you HAVE to move on. 

I went through it twice, once forced and the second because it was best in the end. But once it is done and the extra "carp" is cleared, you can see what is important and not have to walk around all of it. Don't let this %^&* get in your way. Let people help you out, you will get there sooner and with the "life" to enjoy it....James


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## FarmboyBill

There is absolutely nothing up there near my kids right now that I can afford. This is the cheapest. A place that is partially in a flood zone with a single wide on it is going for $60.

Someone said that I had a small fortune in junk here. IF that's so, why havnt I been able to sell any of it??

This place is $52 000. The place with the OLD house and a neighbor on the land also was the same money. IF there WAS a place for sale for $50Thereabouts and it did have a house, the bank wouldn't loan on it as the house would be junk. AT THIS PRICE RANGE, a house is a liability to getting the loan.

My kids cant keep anything. My boy lives in town, and DD lives in a rural subdivision.


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## Echoesechos

Have you offered less on any other properties Bill? Just because they are asking for more doesn't mean that is what they will get. If it's been on the market for awhile good chance they will take less... just a thought.


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## Brighton

What areas are you looking at FBB other than Nowata? And where and how are you doing your searches, are you searching online or just driving around seeing signs. in one quick search I found at least 7 houses in Nowata for sale that are under $55.000, most have nice big lots, one on an acre. But since they are in or on the edge of town I guess you will turn your nose up at them.


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## Dutchie

bostonlesley said:


> just curious..what makes Oklahoma rural areas any more difficult to search online than, say, Missouri? Just using my uncle's last name, I easily accessed the parcel number of his land, annual taxes, and appraised value..and he's in Nowata
> County, OK.


Because public records in rural ok are notoriously incomplete and unreliable

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2


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## Dutchie

And since I only work in OK and AR I cannot make a comparison between OK and MO

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2


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## po boy

I'm a few months older than FBB. If I were in his situation, I would jump at something like *this*, if I could have a few critters and a nice garden on the 3 extra lots.

A little over an acre total and more than .8 acres to play in. Appears to be a nice place with trees and some open areas for gardening............................


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## FarmboyBill

Why do you say (a little more than .8 acres to play in).? .8 isn't even an acre, much less acres. IF/when I move to town, ital. likely be Talala. Thatl be when im a few more months older than you are lol.


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## Lazy J

FarmboyBill said:


> Why do you say (a little more than .8 acres to play in).? .8 isn't even an acre, much less acres. IF/when I move to town, ital. likely be Talala. Thatl be when im a few more months older than you are lol.



I think he is just trying to be a dose of reality for you.


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> Why do you say (a little more than .8 acres to play in).? .8 isn't even an acre, much less acres. IF/when I move to town, ital. likely be Talala. Thatl be when im a few more months older than you are lol.


Bill, don't get your panties in a wad! Of course. .8 is less than 1.0. However, with this property, you have a nice home to live in, you can entertain all your lady friends, grow more veggies you could ever eat, attract more lady friends by growing city slicker veggies and maybe some* shy lady* from NY. 

Think of the possibilities!


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## FarmboyBill

U appairantly didn't see my LOL at the end of my post. Sides, I don't wear underear around here. 
Where would I put a cow, OR even a goat or 3?

As to lady fiends, you've appairantly been missing some of my more pointed posts. 
AND FINALLY
Id say you take your life into your hands pretty carelessly. I could get to be a lotta months older than you real soon LOL.


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## Guest

Just out of curiosity I'm asking this question . Bill , you said you had a well drilled to 187 feet & had water but it was full of dirt when you went back later to case it . I've never heard of drilling a well & not installing the necessary amount of casing when the well is drilled . Why wasn't the well cased when drilled ?


----------



## Brighton

po boy said:


> I'm a few months older than FBB. If I were in his situation, I would jump at something like *this*, if I could have a few critters and a nice garden on the 3 extra lots.
> 
> A little over an acre total and more than .8 acres to play in. Appears to be a nice place with trees and some open areas for gardening............................


That is one of the places I found, I think it is adorable!


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## Brighton

Here is a new listing outside of Talala, no pictures yet, granted it is only an acre, but FBB you can do a lot on a acre and do you really need a cow?? Great price, and the listing realtor's picture and phone number are on the middle right hand side, couldn't hurt to call and ask about the place, heck it probably even has running water and one of those fancy flush toilets that are all the rage these days.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5451-S-4100-Rd_Talala_OK_74080_M70180-98903?row=2


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## FarmboyBill

I don't think I said I went back to case it. It was cased after drilling. I went back to dig out the pit around the well casing.


----------



## Guest

I went this spring to case in the well hole and dropped a rope down the hole.

Guess I just misunderstood this statement .


----------



## jwal10

I know it isn't a stick built house but ....James


http://oklahomahorseproperties.com/idx/mls-1328948-6255_e_360_road_talala_ok_74080_3136


----------



## Shygal

po boy said:


> attract more lady friends by growing city slicker veggies and maybe some* shy lady* from NY.
> 
> Think of the possibilities!



:umno:


----------



## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> AND FINALLY
> Id say you take your life into your hands pretty carelessly. I could get to be a lotta months older than you real soon LOL.



You got that right


----------



## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> U appairantly didn't see my LOL at the end of my post. Sides, I don't wear underear around here.
> Where would I put a cow, OR even a goat or 3?
> 
> As to lady fiends, you've appairantly been missing some of my more pointed posts.
> AND FINALLY
> Id say you take your life into your hands pretty carelessly. I could get to be a lotta months older than you real soon LOL.


 Well, I guess they wouldn't be in your underwear!
I have no idea how much land/acreage you need for a cow or a goat or three.

But, I can see you driving down Main Street Nowata in that ol' white truck selling veggies to the city ladies.

Think of the possibilities, You won't have time for cows or goats..


----------



## po boy

Shygal said:


> :umno:


Did you check Greyhound?


----------



## Terri in WV

jwal10 said:


> I know it isn't a stick built house but ....James
> 
> 
> http://oklahomahorseproperties.com/idx/mls-1328948-6255_e_360_road_talala_ok_74080_3136


This one's in a flood zone and he'd probably have a tough time getting a loan on a mobile.


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## FarmboyBill

I hada grey hound once. Got run over by a bus


----------



## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> I hada grey hound once. Got run over by a bus


 STOP! U R killing me! LOL


----------



## FarmboyBill

Terri/James, that's opne of the places I listed above. and see, its way over $50 000, and its partially in a flood zone


----------



## Terri in WV

Yes, Bill, I know. I was the one that pointed that out to you months ago that it was in a flood zone.


----------



## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> Terri/James, that's opne of the places I listed above. and see, its way over $50 000, and its partially in a flood zone


Ok, so it is in a flood zone, so that one is out. But you do realize you can call the realtor on any of these properties and offer LESS than what they are asking right? Lets say this place wasn't in a flood zone, you could call up the realtor lady and say, I am interested in the property and will offer $50,000, the realtor will then call the sellers and tell them your offer and, OMG, stranger things have happened, but they might just accept the offer! 

If you spent a little more time and put a little more effort into actually searching for a real property with an actual house on it, you might be surprised at what you find.

Good luck FBB!


----------



## FarmboyBill

Yes I could IF ANY THAT I WAS INTERESTED IN SHOWED UP. I got 2 realitors who know what and where I want. Theres nothing in my price range out there. Yes I could offer less on the 4 properties that they Sent me, but they are way away from where I want to br, or at least not near as close as this one is.
Terry another and more major reason for me nixing that one, is that its right next to 6 McMansions. The line buts up against 3 of them.


----------



## Classof66

Might be hard to compete with a MCMansion.


----------



## jwal10

Brighton said:


> Ok, so it is in a flood zone, so that one is out. But you do realize you can call the realtor on any of these properties and offer LESS than what they are asking right? Lets say this place wasn't in a flood zone, you could call up the realtor lady and say, I am interested in the property and will offer $50,000, the realtor will then call the sellers and tell them your offer and, OMG, stranger things have happened, but they might just accept the offer!
> 
> If you spent a little more time and put a little more effort into actually searching for a real property with an actual house on it, you might be surprised at what you find.
> 
> Good luck FBB!


 
I know that if I was serious about finding something I would be in their office EVERY time I was up that way, letting them know I was a lookin'. That is how they make a livin', finding the buyers a property....James


----------



## d'vash

http://www.realtor.com/realestatean..._74301_M81576-20468?row=21#modal_PhotoGallery
Is this far from the area you want to be in? If zoning by-laws aren't an issue, there is just enough room for rabbits, chickens, honey bees, and a nice mantainable-sized garden. I've managed to do all of this on a similar sized lot, when I lived in suburbia. At 15% less than the asking price, you can get this place for $8,000. Since you have said you're looking at putting between $6,000 and $10,000 as a downpayment on a different property I am assuming you have this amount on-hand. As such, no mortgage! No issues on getting bank's approval - becuase there isn't a need for one. 

http://www.realtor.com/realestatean..._74301_M80374-51408?row=37#modal_PhotoGallery
1 acre - $14,000 - house

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/517-W-7Th-St_Chelsea_OK_74016_M85006-61265?row=36
1 acre - $14,000 - 2 car garage - house

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/W-158Th-Pl-N_Skiatook_OK_74070_M72777-89021?row=83
3.2 acres - $19,900

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Bluejacket_OK_74333_M71262-28433?row=88
*10 ACRES - $19,900* 

You do realize banks will NOT tolerate half, or late payments. If I was your age, I would humble myself to downsize both in property size and payments! Why purchase the dream property but you can't afford it - just so it would be riped away from under your feet by the bank?


----------



## Brighton

jwal10 said:


> I know that if I was serious about finding something I would be in their office EVERY time I was up that way, letting them know I was a lookin'. That is how they make a livin', finding the buyers a property....James


I would be getting online every morning and looking for new listings, like the one I found today up near Talala and then emailing or calling the realtor who is suppose to be working for me with the listing and setting a time up to see it.

Also, if Bill would state exactly where he wants to live, Nowata, Talala, Bartlesville, Claremore, Collinsville, Pawhuska, Skiatook, is a decent size area, and just "north" of Tulsa doesn't help, and if he would just say "hey I really want to be in Talala for good" then more than likely all the folks who have been trying for the last year to help him would help him find a decent place at a decent price!!


----------



## Guest

To each his own..if I discovered that what I wanted didn't exist, I'd dump that idea and move on to one which was workable..


----------



## Grumpy old man

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while ,But will starve if he doesn't look !


----------



## FarmboyBill

The bank WILL be TAKING OUT the payment from my SS which is deposited by SS into the bank so that they can take out the land payment. Pretty tidy huh??


----------



## FarmboyBill

I only get up there once or twice a month. The realitors send me their reports on Fri.


----------



## Molly Mckee

One thing that makes this interesting is that here what Bill is trying to buy would not get a mortgage without a huge down payment. More than 5 acres, no house properties are harder to finance than mobile homes on land, and mobiles are about impossible. Anything other than a stick built house on less than 10 acres or a large, working ranch are almost impossible to finance here, unless you don't need a mortgage. Then you might get one.


----------



## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> I only get up there once or twice a month. The realitors send me their reports on Fri.


Well then YOU need to be looking yourself, do some work Bill, and it can mostly be done from your computer, no driving needed! Heck I found some nice places in Nowata in two minutes. When I was looking in Colorado, I got an email EVERY morning, Monday through Friday, from the realtor I was working with on possible properties.


----------



## FarmboyBill

That IS interesting.


----------



## frogmammy

FarmboyBill said:


> I hada grey hound once. Got run over by a bus


Had a dog named "Lucky" when I was a kid. Got run over by a Greyhound Bus. he wasn't so Lucky after all.

Mon


----------



## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> That IS interesting.


What is interesting about it, every new listing I got asap, not a week or more later. That is what a good realtor does, since you don't seem to have found that yet, you need to be spending more time looking on your own. Spend 10 minutes every morning, all I did was a Google search on "homes for sale in Nowata", boom, tons of listing, some of them older some of them brand new.


----------



## Guest

Brighton said:


> What is interesting about it, every new listing I got asap, not a week or more later. That is what a good realtor does, since you don't seem to have found that yet, you need to be spending more time looking on your own. Spend 10 minutes every morning, all I did was a Google search on "homes for sale in Nowata", boom, tons of listing, some of them older some of them brand new.


Just FYI..
FBB has said numerous times that he has told the realtors NOT to contact him unless the property meets 100 % of his requirements:
10 acres.. Nothing less... And his price quote...
Flat , treeless land with no rocks
That's why they don't find anything..


----------



## FarmboyBill

I SAID a Minimum of 7 acres, NO rocks, and few trees.


----------



## Grumpy old man

Folks ...We are looking at this from "our " point of view and how we would go about it .Seems bill has his own methods and time frame and has refused help from many people . My gut tells me this is entertainment and a connection to others he just doesn't have coming from anywhere else and we can encourage /offer/ plan/assist /provide/ anything we want but to no solution ...Good luck Bill your gonna need it !


----------



## Brighton

Grumpy old man said:


> Folks ...We are looking at this from "our " point of view and how we would go about it .Seems bill has his own methods and time frame and has refused help from many people . My gut tells me this is entertainment and a connection to others he just doesn't have coming from anywhere else and we can encourage /offer/ plan/assist /provide/ anything we want but to no solution ...Good luck Bill your gonna need it !


Probably he needs that connection to others, as he doesn't seem to have any friends at all outside of his family, and if the only way he gets it is here and some of what some of us say sinks in, well that is a good thing right? Granted some of us, who have given him excellent advise, get a bit weary, but we just really want old Bill to find a nice small house with a little bit of land (I don't think he needs 10 acres at ALL) and see him have a bath every day and a fancy flushy toilet for the first time in 32 years!


----------



## FarmboyBill

U Fergit. OLD old Bill has his friends in Church.


----------



## Grumpy old man

Ifin hes gettin one dem der flushies eyes commin to visit fur aspell hootanhollar eyes seen me ones of dem befour an dez high dollar !


----------



## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> U Fergit. OLD old Bill has his friends in Church.


Do they ever come out to your house, sit and visit, do you talk to them on the phone every day or so just to talk about the weather or your garden, do you go visit with them at their homes, have dinner, chat, talk other than at church?


----------



## Grumpy old man

Brighton said:


> Do they ever come out to your house, sit and visit, do you talk to them on the phone every day or so just to talk about the weather or your garden, do you go visit with them at their homes, have dinner, chat, talk other than at church?


I had to read that twice I thought you were talking about the flushies ?


----------



## FarmboyBill

Nope. I don't do that, and neither do they to my knowledge. I don't talk to anybody on the phone every day, NOR DO I WANT TO. I don't go visit them. Seeing them twice a week is plenty. I havnt ate a doz times at a cafÃ© in 30yrs. NOR DO I WANT TO. I M A LONER. Always have been. Im close to those that are mine, wife/kids/parents when I had them. I hardly visit my neighbors. AND they only visit when they want something. 

Brighton, Can I ask what my social mores have to do with me buying a place. I am the way I am. I like the way I am. I don't intend to change the way I am, and IF, the way I am dosent suit you, I think you know the rest of this line of thinking.

I would NEVER tell someone they needed to change the way they live, the way the interact with others, ect. I especially wouldn't try to embarrass them publicly. EVERYBODY is the way they are. EVERYBODY has the right to be the way they are IF that suits them. Nobody should have to change their view points, their life style, any of their ideas unless they are hurting somebody else. 
IF you can find where ive ever done that on here, show it to me.


----------



## Grumpy old man

Bill you live anyway you feel is good for you and I wish you well !


----------



## Guest

I know that I'll regret this...

cabin, barn, green house, acreage, 18 miles from Nowata...

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/reo/4020754099.html


----------



## starjj

FarmboyBill said:


> U Fergit. OLD old Bill has his friends in Church.


Yep the church that seems to think it is OK to not pay on a contract you signed. Oh I forgot that is not the church that is you. You certain have a new slant on religion much different then I was taught. Do your friends from church know you are sneaking off land you said you would buy or do you not tell them?


----------



## starjj

bostonlesley said:


> I know that I'll regret this...
> 
> cabin, barn, green house, acreage, 18 miles from Nowata...
> 
> http://tulsa.craigslist.org/reo/4020754099.html


Yes you will regret it lol. I am sure it probably has ROCKS Gasp! Not ROCKS


----------



## starjj

WOW Lesley great find but get ready to get booed because he can't afford it.

I want it!


----------



## Brighton

FBB, I don't want you to change, I want you to see the difference in "friends" and people you see at church. Friends help you and you help them, you visit, maybe they have you over for dinner or you have them over for dinner, talk afterwards, play cards or something. Or you have a bonfire sit around and visit, roast some Marshmellys, etc. Two of my dear friends came over a picked apples this week at my place, we picked and talked for two hours, then sat in the shade and talked some more.

If you want to be alone other than your family that is fine, I was just pointing out to Grumpy that your real friends seem to be more online than in real life, and if that is what you like and need then there is nothing wrong with that!


----------



## Brighton

bostonlesley said:


> I know that I'll regret this...
> 
> cabin, barn, green house, acreage, 18 miles from Nowata...
> 
> http://tulsa.craigslist.org/reo/4020754099.html


Way out of his price range, but I WANT it, how cute and perfect!!


----------



## starjj

FarmboyBill said:


> Nope. I don't do that, and neither do they to my knowledge. I don't talk to anybody on the phone every day, NOR DO I WANT TO. I don't go visit them. Seeing them twice a week is plenty. I havnt ate a doz times at a cafÃ© in 30yrs. NOR DO I WANT TO. I M A LONER. Always have been. Im close to those that are mine, wife/kids/parents when I had them. I hardly visit my neighbors. AND they only visit when they want something.
> 
> Brighton, Can I ask what my social mores have to do with me buying a place. I am the way I am. I like the way I am. I don't intend to change the way I am, and IF, the way I am dosent suit you, I think you know the rest of this line of thinking.
> 
> I would NEVER tell someone they needed to change the way they live, the way the interact with others, ect. I especially wouldn't try to embarrass them publicly. EVERYBODY is the way they are. EVERYBODY has the right to be the way they are IF that suits them. Nobody should have to change their view points, their life style, any of their ideas unless they are hurting somebody else.
> IF you can find where ive ever done that on here, show it to me.


Last line Bill. What about the current owners of the property? Oh right, you have justified NOT paying them and sneaking out already at least to yourself.


----------



## Guest

starjj said:


> WOW Lesley great find but get ready to get booed because he can't afford it.
> 
> I want it!


An interested buyer could easily make an offer...


----------



## starjj

bostonlesley said:


> An interested buyer could easily make an offer...


Lesley, if it was where there isn't snow and I would really be interested. I seriously hate snow AND ice


----------



## KansasFarmgirl

bostonlesley said:


> I know that I'll regret this...
> 
> cabin, barn, green house, acreage, 18 miles from Nowata...
> 
> http://tulsa.craigslist.org/reo/4020754099.html


That's cute! I like it! 
3 bedrooms, it's bigger than it looks!


----------



## Guest

If it wasn't in Oklahoma, I'd be showing the link to John..LOL.IMHO, a perfect retirement homestead..


----------



## AngieM2

lesley - I like that one you posted.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Gee Whillikers. Billoo has posted building a barn and living in part of it, and hes getting rave posts. How come that aint happening here.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Brighton, as to friends, having them, making them, ect. I thought a lot of the idea of homesteading was to find a mountain top perch, or a place out in the woods, or in the desert, or wherever that would allow them to NOT be near neighbors.??
I Know this appeals to some, and I know to some it dosent. Homesteaders, like farmers, and like gardeners, and like pretty much everybody else is different, has different wants and needs, and aspirations.
I have friends in real life, and I have friends in here.
I guess I make friends easily WHEN I WANT TO, cause iom not judgemental. I go with my flow, and letr others do the same. IF our flows seem to flow together, that makes for a friend.


----------



## FarmboyBill

No the church dosent know about my circumstances, OR that im leaving. Reason for the last is cause Im afraid that they will tell people who will tell people who I don't know, and who don't know me, or care to, but cause they've drove by and seen alla the stuff that could sell at a junk yard, theyed be visiting while I wasn't here.


----------



## starjj

Deleted my post. I suggest we all just stop the insanity of this thread and sit back and let Bill find his own way to deal with what he has to deal with.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Williams wondering if those aint wise words of wisdom from a wise woman


----------



## starjj

Bill all you have to do is quit posting all your personal business and asking for opinions as to what to do and it could all stop


----------



## sidepasser

FBB - do what I did finally.

After two years of making repeated trips to LaGrange to clean out a little bit here and little bit there, I bit the bullet and *hired a crew to just remove everything*. They began last week and the place looks awful right now, but by next weekend, everything will be gone. Either given away, sold, stored or taken to the dump. 

I wish I had done this two years ago, but kept going back and forth, taking a car load here and there, sorting through books (I had over 5,000 books), all sorts of stuff from 26 years of being in one spot. Finally said to heck with it, and hired a crew. In one day they removed two truckloads and one trailer full of stuff. 

Of course all this has left the place looking like a war zone, OMG it looks like a disaster area, but at least it is getting DONE. In the end though, all the worry I have had over "what to do with X" is going to be gone. 

Yes, it is hard to part with STUFF, but I am actually relieved to be done with it after all this time. This weekend the crew is coming back and we are going to start at daylight and go until there is literally nothing left in the house side of the apartment at all. I will keep some things, but the majority will be sent away. The next week the barn will be cleaned out, the outbuildings and all that stuff will be given to my mom except stuff needed to clean stalls. 

You are older than I am and I have had some real major medical problems (major surgery in 2011, back problems and a broken leg in 2012 through part of 2013). Don't wait until you aren't healthy to do something about your situation and are forced to do something. You need to just get this DONE FBB. 


It is time for you to do the same thing. Let it go FBB, move on with your life and realize that this stuff is not worth all this agony. Buy a new place and move on with your life.

Let your current place be a "war zone" for a couple of weeks - have an auction, yard sale or whatever and sell the stuff you can't move or use. That money would be better spent on your new place.

If you can't afford to hire people, throw a potluck dinner and invite all your relatives and friends to come help you clean up, pack up, and be ready to move. I am sure you know enough folks to do a little horse trading in exchange for some help getting you ready to move.

Another thing - quit going to sales and buying more stuff..you don't need more stuff. lol..


----------



## wr

FarmboyBill said:


> Gee Whillikers. Billoo has posted building a barn and living in part of it, and hes getting rave posts. How come that aint happening here.


Because he is considering building a proper living quarters or suite, which isn't uncommon. Lots of arenas and big ranching operations have living quarters in them but they are an apartment with proper amenities and he's researching options rather than just jumping in and modifying a box stall with no clear game plan.


----------



## sidepasser

FBB - you can build a house from a barn but you really need to think about electricity, water, and sewer. I thought about just using an outhouse but most people like to have a toilet. I have a septic system, but if one wants to just wander off into the woods, I have lots of woods too. 

You need to plan out how you want the house part to be when you are finished. Build so that the place can be modified or if someone new wants it, they can modify it.

I will take pics of the inside of my place and post them - I know there used to be some on HT but I think they got pruned. I tried to search for them as I remember posting about how to install the cedar in the closet area and took pics..but can't find them here now. 

Even though my place is not finished completely, it has concrete floors and electric, running water, double paned windows in most rooms, ceiling fans, and things that make it liveable. I think Billoo is thinking of building an apartment inside his pole barn that would be plumbed, electric, etc.

You need some sort of plan on how you will transform your stall into a living space. Isn't it cold where you live? Like really, really cold?

You will need heat and a way to keep water from freezing. Those sort of things FBB are important.


----------



## Classof66

Maybe you could trade one of your treasures for a used camper. You could build it into one of your buildings maybe and have a cozy little home.


----------



## FarmboyBill

The barns got all the electric in the world. 10 lights in the cealing. Breaker box on wall. hydrant 1ft away from NW Corner.

I went to the courthouse to check on what was against the property. NADA. Her X had transferred it over to her and new hubby for $10.00 Her and new hubby had had it rigged to where if one died, it fell to the other one. Thats it.


----------



## Oxankle

Lesley--something like that would be an albatross around your neck. Three acres and a paddock? Not enough for animals, way too much for mowing. Out in the boonies, hard to finance, hard to heat, primitive inside.
Ox


----------



## starjj

Not everyone wants a big place with room for animals and it is hardly primitive inside.


----------



## Guest

Oxankle said:


> Lesley--something like that would be an albatross around your neck. Three acres and a paddock? Not enough for animals, way too much for mowing. Out in the boonies, hard to finance, hard to heat, primitive inside.
> Ox


 John and I just recently looked at a 3 acre place here in Missouri..plenty of room for animals by two's..and it had an orchard, and a chicken coop, and a smoke house, and a wonderful barn..saving our $ for next year..boonies is relative..I need to be within 2 hours of a good coronary care unit, and God made wood stoves for great heat..
we plan on working smarter vs harder..


----------



## Shygal

Bill, Sidepasser had a good idea, could you have an auction at your place and sell the machinery, etc?


----------



## cindilu

Bill, you could always start a new post. I lost the place....


----------



## FarmboyBill

SG Im currently trying to sell one tractor, 4 plows, a grader or 2, 2 planters, a 1/2 doz pieces of walk behind horse machinery, a garden tractor, and a truck. Plus a parts tractor. + 34 currently and likely 30 more next cutting hay.

IF I sold it all, Why would I need 10 acres?


----------



## Shygal

sigh.........Bill..........
Only sell the things you want to sell...

An auction would probably be better than having them on craigslist once a month


----------



## Grumpy old man

Bill I've looked at all the stuff in the background of your pictures and if you spent as much time on craigslist listing your stuff for sale as you do in here you would have no money problems and an easy way to move forward from the current boondoggle your in with no help from anyone other than yourself ! and you could afford a place already somewhat set up and running and stop the foolishness .


----------



## FarmboyBill

LIKE I SAID. IF I would (sell ALL the stuff you've seen in the background of my pictures), I couldn't farm.


----------



## Grumpy old man

Your not farming your attempting to sustain a place that has no water /no electric /no house and no livestock how with all due respect is that farming ? p.s. That's why I'm called Grumpy because I'm gonna tell you my opinion and it may not be what you want to hear but it's reality as I see it from what you have posted .


----------



## frogmammy

Wasn't there an old, old TV program, a western, that would start with a voice-over with the phrase about those "shinning days of yesteryear"? 

That's what I think about with FBB's machines and farming talk....

I think that's what he is striving for.

Mon


----------



## jwal10

Bill, What would you do IF they came and told you to get off, you have 30 days.

I hope it never happens, but what if. Could you be happy with 1 tractor and the equipment you used this year? Which tractor means the most to you, does the most, fits your equipment the best. When you get water, will you grow a big garden? Would you can some? Could you sell at a farmers market?

I know you don't want to think about it, but could you make an alternative plan, just in case you need to downsize, just to keep what means the most to you. The minimum. Go with that and IF you find more land, you can keep more of what you want/need most. Farming 10 acres won't make more than 3. There is no profit in either. It isn't about profit, it is about doing what you want. Keeping the lifestyle alive.

I know Bill, I have been there, done it, gone through the heartache. I farmed, made a good living, then my health went away. I tried to keep it alive. Had a bad accident with my H, slipped and hurt myself, bad. It happened so fast I had no time to control the outcome. I knew then that IF I did not get away from it, I would not have any quality of life. I saw my Dad go through it. He broke his neck, what he loved doing was gone in a heartbeat. Don't keep kidding yourself, the time will come when you can't do it. Don't think the Grandkids will even want to help for long, Do what you can now to keep living the life you want, for as long as you can enjoy it. You keep dreaming, this is reality time now. Get a place you can handle financially and enjoy without taking away from the quality of your life. To do what you are thinking about with this property, you can not do alone, admit it. Find a place you can move to, do small improvements to, to make your own and enjoy life....James


----------



## farmgal

Bill's not here. He is at the sales buying stuff, with the money he is supposed to be saving, to buy the property. :nono:


----------



## FarmboyBill

The sinning days of yesteryear?. I cant remember them LOL.
IF I had to move in 30 days, id have to have a sale I guess. BUT. I don't walk to my corner in the ring. I gotta get knocked there.
Grump. Long as you can type with a smile on your face, You wont hurt my feelings none.
I have been striving to get to where I could raise corn, bind it, shred and shuck it, raise sudan grass, bale it, and feed out a few cows over winter. Well, I think now, that the cows are out, that id just sell the hay and feed the fodder to a milk cow or 2 along with corn and a bit of alfalfa. I have also wanted to raise bottle calves through winter. IM NOT GONNA QUIT TILL IVE DONE IT. AND If its successful, I wont quit then,. IF NOT, Ill be ready to throw in the towel.


----------



## FarmboyBill

Many would think that Bills not all here. lol. Ive been out working with/on my bailer. Im finished with that, and taking a break. Next ill put it away, put the carb on my 1 ton, and put it away, which will clear the barn yard to start hauling up trees to the buzz saw.


----------



## jwal10

frogmammy said:


> Wasn't there an old, old TV program, a western, that would start with a voice-over with the phrase about those "shinning days of yesteryear"?
> 
> That's what I think about with FBB's machines and farming talk....
> 
> I think that's what he is striving for.
> 
> Mon


 
Yep, exactly. He has so much time to think and dream. He is reliving a way of life that HE did not live. He has idealized a way of life. Now he wants to live it, BUT, he has no idea how or what to do. There is no money in it. It will cost him (already has) all of his cash. He took his retirement in a lump sum to do this and it is/has slipping (ed) through his hands. It is time to get real, wake up before it is all gone. Don't think for a minute that it is not bothering him. He is 66 and is looking back at all the missed opportunities, he sees his life coming towards it's end, he has regrets. He is not being honest with himself. Sad, my Dad did the same, Sad because there is a way for him to enjoy life, he is too stubborn (pride) to admit it. The one thing is he IS starting to understand that he is missing out on his family. He pushed them away, now that he needs them, he needs to do it humbly, asking for, but more importantly, taking the help he needs. 

This whole Thread proves that people love him, want to help him. BUT sometimes reality IS tough love. Tough for him, tough for the ones that love him. 

My Dad was 75, in decent heath when he started living in the past big time. We (kids) were gone, he drove us away. Older brother had tried to farm with him. Mom reluctantly let Dad have the horses, he was 80, out of love. She was scared, in fear everyday that the worst would happen, it did. She had to put her foot down, sell the farm, everything, move to town, to take care of him. She was 61, worked full time to 65. He lived to 95, blessed to be able to walk, but not take care of himself. Mom suffered greatly. No real retirement, no traveling. She gave up her health for him. She came to regret her marriage, him and the corner he put her in. Neither were happy, he for 15 years she for 23 She passed at 83....James


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## FarmboyBill

And as to the WHAT IFs, James, Ive told you my moms favorite saying. Heres dads. If the dog hadn't stopped to git, he woulda got the rabbit. By the time I was late in HS he had heard and adopted this add on. IF the rabbit hadn't been 2 gits ahead of him, he would have got him anyway. LOL I don't worry about the what ifs. Tomorrow will take care of itself, so they say.


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## Grumpy old man

FarmboyBill said:


> Many would think that Bills not all here. lol. Ive been out working with/on my bailer. Im finished with that, and taking a break. Next ill put it away, put the carb on my 1 ton, and put it away, which will clear the barn yard to start hauling up trees to the buzz saw.


No offense but all I've seen is overgrown unkept land and buildings ,broken down very old equipment and a shed I wouldn't keep pigs in. So why bother when you could sell all the "junk" and move to a place where you could better manage it and be happier with a smaller nicer place ?????:shrug:


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## FarmboyBill

I appreciate alla your saying, that that's said with kindness and friendliness. I just cant quit. I seen my dad, granddad, uncle do it, and it slowly killed them. IF I mess up as you say you did, then a quicker death would be way more preferable. AND, if I mess up so bad I don't die from it, And have to give it up, That wont last long either.


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## FarmboyBill

No offense, but you show me any machinery that is broken down. The Combine needs a new bat reel, BUT Ill never use it again, and nobody wants it if I give it away, Everything else works other than the Bailer wont tie. The JD never did run, so I never used it. It was just bought to rebuild. Im selling it.


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## FarmboyBill

And where is said over grown land? Ive got 12 acres in Haygrazer, 5 acres in pararie hay. That leaves 3 acres wood lot and 2 acres barnyard.


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## jwal10

Bill, back to the tractors. Was/is one passed down from family? Equipment, was any used by family? You have a favorite plow or disk. We see your grain drill. Do you have a corn binder? Shredder/husker. I think we need a new thread, 'Bill, on his Oklahoma farm'. Sort of a place we can all sit and talk, learn more about what drives Bill to do what he does. A journal of his life. Bill. you want to start it, or me. Go ahead, post some more pictures of what you got to sell, use, dream about, talk about. I know you will be busy getting up wood but start slow now and have a project for the winter....James


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## CountryWannabe

FarmboyBill said:


> Well, I think now, that the cows are out, that id just sell the hay and feed the fodder to a milk cow or 2 along with corn and a bit of alfalfa. I have also wanted to raise bottle calves through winter. IM NOT GONNA QUIT TILL IVE DONE IT. AND If its successful, I wont quit then,. IF NOT, Ill be ready to throw in the towel.


Bill - why do you want milk cows? Not criticizing, just wondering. Milk cows and bottle calves are a LOT of work and need a lot of knowledge. I know that you USED to help out with a dairy operation, but do you really have the knowledge and ability to do this? Your knowledge of dietary requirements does not seem very up to date, which would have a direct bearing on milk production. What do you propose to do with the milk? Sell it out the door? You would have to have a nice, spotless milking shed for that to happen. Feed it to the bottle calves? I seem to recall you had problems even keeping a couple of bottle goats alive, and milk cows are a lot bigger $$$ investment than goats, not to mention a lot harder to physically manage at our age (ask me how I know?) I am really trying to keep out of this thread, but I am worried that you are digging a much bigger hole than you are going to be able to climb out of safely.

Mary


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## Terri in WV

FarmboyBill said:


> I have been striving to get to where I could raise corn, bind it, shred and shuck it, raise sudan grass, bale it, and feed out a few cows over winter. Well, I think now, that the cows are out, that id just sell the hay and feed the fodder to a milk cow or 2 along with corn and a bit of alfalfa. I have also wanted to raise bottle calves through winter. IM NOT GONNA QUIT TILL IVE DONE IT. AND If its successful, I wont quit then,. IF NOT, Ill be ready to throw in the towel.


You've had 32 years to do this where you're at. Can you honestly say that you're going to do this at another place?

We all want you to have what you want and to be comfortable wherever you may park yourself. The reality of it is though, is that you are probably not going to be even getting 1/2 of what you want. I think, as outsiders, most of us can see this better then you. It's great to have a dream, but if that dream doesn't happen in 32 years, it's a pretty safe bet that it's time to dream another dream.


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## CountryWannabe

Oxankle said:


> Lesley--something like that would be an albatross around your neck. Three acres and a paddock? Not enough for animals, way too much for mowing. Out in the boonies, hard to finance, hard to heat, primitive inside.
> Ox


For retirement - it is enough for a couple of sheep and a few chickens and a nice garden for a couple. Maybe even a couple of small goats (like Nigerian Dwarfs) as well if you are careful of the grazing management.

Mary


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## Grumpy old man

I have to stop reading this thread ! I'm getting older and already my hair is thinning and by reading this I can't stop wanting to pull out more !:hair


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## jwal10

STOP, we do not need to judge, We can put ourselves in his shoes, but they go where he wants, it is his life, not ours. We just get to peak inside, give advice, tough love and support. We may not like it, but it is his life to live.



Bill, I like your place. Yes I think it could use some work, BUT, you have been in a tough spot. I admire you, you have kept living life, doing what has to be done in less than ideal conditions. When I worked at the auction yard, your place was the kind I liked to go to, to help get them ready for the sale. They had heart, soul, to see what the farmer had done to keep it going. many older farmers places showed what can be done. Yours does too. BUT, it is too much for you , you have to admit. I know it is hard. You are a proud man, keep your head up, keep pushing, just be realistic. I know all this has got you thinking, all that is good, hopefully a better outcome because of it. Take care and be careful out there. It is not over, you still have a few chapters to write....James


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## po boy

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC9lwtASR4c"]For Bill![/ame] Go For IT!


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## Terri

I cannot imagine that a young farmer would not pay a little for an old combine. The new ones cost SO! much!

Perhaps you can let folks at the extension office know about it? A lot of young farmers use them, sooner or later.

Or, you can let folks know at places that cater to us little folk: places that sell those little tractors and such, or an ad at a feed store. As one feed store owner said in an interview, "As the cities keep growing the older farmers were pushed out. But, we got enough hobby farmers to take their place and busines is good". I remember because that is the feed store I buy my chicken feed at.


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## po boy

Yes, Put a flyer in every farm, feed store, Tractor supply, Farm Credit offices and any other place that allows posting flyers.


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## fordy

FarmboyBill said:


> I appreciate alla your saying, that that's said with kindness and friendliness. I just cant quit. I seen my dad, granddad, uncle do it, and it slowly killed them. IF I mess up as you say you did, then a quicker death would be way more preferable. AND, if I mess up so bad I don't die from it, And have to give it up, That wont last long either.


 
..............Bill , I've UPdated your theme song.......
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmOe27SJ3Yc[/ame]
..............fordy


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## FarmboyBill

GUYS WHAT PART OF THERE IS NO FARMIONG DONE AROUND HERE DONT YOU UNDERSTAND????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Theres only ONE farm and its a BIG one with 2 TWO feed mills on it. THATS IT> Nobody farms here.


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## FarmboyBill

AS 2 Ive had 32yrs to get done what I want to do and havnt done it yet. It took me 32 yrs of getting all the stuff to do what I want to do. It took a BUNCHA yrs to ge out from under CS. I whizzed away 32yrs worth of Sats, playing Kong Arthur. Not to mention the couple a thousand that went with doing it, and wear and tear on vehicles going across country to do it. When your working 5 days a week, then whiz away the Sat, then not much gets done.


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## farmgal

po boy said:


> Yes, Put a flyer in every farm, feed store, Tractor supply, Farm Credit offices and any other place that allows posting flyers.


post flyers for what? Bill has a JD to sell, he wants 10000 for it. It doesnt even run. He needs to have realistic prices first. The JD is worth close to scrap price. That JD, in perfect running condition is only worth 3000$.


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## FarmboyBill

Naw James, Ill post till I get the place OR NOT, then Im going to let it die, or say a few cuss words thatll get it in mod review.


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## FarmboyBill

Maybe Grumpy could say them for me LOL


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## Guest

Hey, Bill. I'm a grown man, just like you are, and I'm gonna state what you already know, but apparently nobody else does: Do what you think is right. People offering you advice ain't in your shoes. If you are a grown man, wearing a size 15EEEEEE shoe, don't ask no little footed woman does this shoe fit me. You the only one knows that.
Incidentally this is my first post in this thread. You don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.


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## Terri

farmgal said:


> post flyers for what?


 For the old combine.


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## Rick

fordy said:


> ..............Bill , I've UPdated your theme song.......
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmOe27SJ3Yc
> ..............fordy


Never picked up on the uke in that song - that is a uke isn't it?

One of my Mom's favorites!


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## Terri

FarmboyBill said:


> GUYS WHAT PART OF THERE IS NO FARMIONG DONE AROUND HERE DONT YOU UNDERSTAND????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> 
> Theres only ONE farm and its a BIG one with 2 TWO feed mills on it. THATS IT> Nobody farms here.


'cepting you, and was it the person across the road? And that guy you haven't met yet.

Bill, all the time I was growing up I was told that I could not farm. Well I did not listen.

So, I was 49 years old, I had some marketing experience and the growing experience and a market picked out and the down payment and I put it down on a small parcel of land. It is too bad that I got sick the very week that I bought the land but life happens. 

The point to all of this is that nobody knows me from Adam. But I never gave up and NOBODY in my community knew I was an aspiring farmer. 

And, I would have bought that combine in a heartbeat so that I could fix it and raise grain and harvest it for livestock. I had the idea of crossing hens that lay blue and green eggs with a leghorn, so that I got a lot of colored eggs, also honey bees, also blackberries, also seeds for small seed companies. I bought the land and I was going to start with blackberries and honey as that was what I had been selling at the farmers market, and work into the rest.

No young person says very often "I am going to be a farmer" because they get laughed at unless they have a relative to help them get into the business. So, we are quiet and you never heard of us until we actually start. And by then we will have already bought the basic equipment.

A notice on a bulletin board is only a notice on a bulletin board. If nobody calls you are out a piece of paper. If somebody does call and you sell that broken combine you are at least a few hundred dollars closer towards your goal. Because, if there is a wanna be farmer out there, you have probably never met him or her as nobody likes to be laughed at by the big boys.


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## FarmboyBill

CW. IF milk cows and bottle calves are alotta work, Than I know more about them than you do.
Your right. My knowledge of dietary suppliments aren't up to date. Know what> My uncle ran a Holstein operation. Im sure he ONLY fed ground corn and alfalfa hay and pasture. He died in 65 with $15,000 in the bank. My Aunt and uncle ran a gurnsey herd. I KNOW that all they fed their cows was ground corn alfalfa hay and molasses in the mix. Ive been there a few times when the MOORMAN feed truck came and made up the mix. Moormans supplied the molasses. They died rich. All dad ever fed was ground corn and alfalfa and pasture, and I know for a fact that we had the biggest milk check on OUR route, and the second biggest egg check.. That from round a doz cows. I helped milk somma those cows. They gave ALOT of milk each. They didn't seem to notice that the supplements that (Feeds and Feeding) gave in their fomulas back ion the 30s and 40s. I have there 39 and 40 books. I know what the supplements are. I ALSO KNOW that unless your trying for the cover of Hoards Dairyman, they aren't strictly necessary.
As long as you don't tell my cow s that they aren't getting all the suppliments, I wont either, and I bet I still have more milk than I can use.
What am I going to do with alla the milk. Well, ill be living in the close neighborhoods of my son and daughter and X, and so I know they'll want milk. I can trade the milk for small things I cant do by myself.
Ill also get a calve s a year. Here, a Jersey heifer, 6 mos old or less is worth a grand.

U seem to recall I had trouble keeping a couple goats alive. I had had 4. The buck danced allover 3 of them, killing 2. One died while I was feeding it, OR I finally realized the enevetable and let it go. The other I raised into a 3 month old healthy as could be.
You DIDNT mention, I notice about me saying I had raised 10 or 12 bottle calves in NE Kans back in the early 70s


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## Shygal

FarmboyBill said:


> I appreciate alla your saying, that that's said with kindness and friendliness. I just cant quit. I seen my dad, granddad, uncle do it, and it slowly killed them. IF I mess up as you say you did, then a quicker death would be way more preferable. AND, if I mess up so bad I don't die from it, And have to give it up, That wont last long either.



And this is what it is all about. You go , Bill. 

A person without dreams is a person just going through the motions of living.

Grumpy, I know you think you are "helping" but really, you don't know what Bill thinks. Neither do the other armchair psychologists on this thread.
He has come out and TOLD everyone what he thinks and dreams and wants, and still a whole lot of you don't get it.

If he ends up struggling, homeless, whatever, at least he had the guts to TRY for his dream. How many of us have done that?

When you give up your dream, you give up living.


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## Molly Mckee

Terri said:


> I cannot imagine that a young farmer would not pay a little for an old combine. The new ones cost SO! much!
> 
> Perhaps you can let folks at the extension office know about it? A lot of young farmers use them, sooner or later.
> 
> Or, you can let folks know at places that cater to us little folk: places that sell those little tractors and such, or an ad at a feed store. As one feed store owner said in an interview, "As the cities keep growing the older farmers were pushed out. But, we got enough hobby farmers to take their place and busines is good". I remember because that is the feed store I buy my chicken feed at.


You lose at lot more grain with the old combines. You are better off hiring the combining done. It is also really hard to get parts for them, and they tend to break when you use them, so you can't finish combining. Unless you want them to play with or a really small field, they are worth scrap price.


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## Molly Mckee

Since you seem to be able to fix machinery Bill, why don't you get the tractor in really good shape, paint them and sell them to small land owners. You could get three times what they are worth now. Then buy a bigger tractor for less money, or buy more smaller tractors and fix them up for sale. You could do packages of equipment with the tractor and make some more money to put toward your land.


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## starjj

Like I said BEFORE if Bill would quit splashing his personal business on the internet and asking for opinions (which giving them to Bill is wasting skin off your typing fingers) we could get rid of this post. I think IMHO it has ran it's course and should be shut down because it is a joke to think Bill is going to do anything other than what Bill is going to do.

Wise up guys and give it up, don't respond to Bill's answers to all your suggestions and it can die gracefully. So far every "suggestions" has been meant with a put down as to why he wouldn't do what is suggested or that he knows better than you.

When does it just become a waste of time?


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## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> CW. IF milk cows and bottle calves are alotta work, Than I know more about them than you do.
> Your right. My knowledge of dietary suppliments aren't up to date. Know what> My uncle ran a Holstein operation. Im sure he ONLY fed ground corn and alfalfa hay and pasture. He died in 65 with $15,000 in the bank. My Aunt and uncle ran a gurnsey herd. I KNOW that all they fed their cows was ground corn alfalfa hay and molasses in the mix. Ive been there a few times when the MOORMAN feed truck came and made up the mix. Moormans supplied the molasses. They died rich. All dad ever fed was ground corn and alfalfa and pasture, and I know for a fact that we had the biggest milk check on OUR route, and the second biggest egg check.. That from round a doz cows. I helped milk somma those cows. They gave ALOT of milk each. They didn't seem to notice that the supplements that (Feeds and Feeding) gave in their fomulas back ion the 30s and 40s. I have there 39 and 40 books. I know what the supplements are. I ALSO KNOW that unless your trying for the cover of Hoards Dairyman, they aren't strictly necessary.
> As long as you don't tell my cow s that they aren't getting all the suppliments, I wont either, and I bet I still have more milk than I can use.
> What am I going to do with alla the milk. Well, ill be living in the close neighborhoods of my son and daughter and X, and so I know they'll want milk. I can trade the milk for small things I cant do by myself.
> Ill also get a calve s a year. Here, a Jersey heifer, 6 mos old or less is worth a grand.
> 
> U seem to recall I had trouble keeping a couple goats alive. I had had 4. The buck danced allover 3 of them, killing 2. One died while I was feeding it, OR I finally realized the enevetable and let it go. The other I raised into a 3 month old healthy as could be.
> You DIDNT mention, I notice about me saying I had raised 10 or 12 bottle calves in NE Kans back in the early 70s


And yet another instance of FBB putting down someone who is trying to help him and who is actually raising cattle for his better (granted limited) exposure to cattle in 1970, which folks was FORTY THREE years ago!!


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## starjj

Bill but I wouldn't buy or trade for milk from a place that wasn't kept sparkling CLEAN. A far as goats if the buck danced over 3 goats (which I personally have never seen a buck do) you should of had seperate housing for the nannies, kids, and buck. Please face the fact that the whole goat thing was a diaster from day one with them escaping and then dieing. I have raised goats so don't say you know more than me. Calves are a LOT of work and no you don't know more than me you just THINK you do know more than EVERYONE. Live your dream but please keep the put downs and such to everything that is suggested to you out of it. You seem to know everything except how to get your place without a million suggestions. I will try to take my advise and not respond to Bill's endless reasoning as to why nothing suggested will work for him.


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> Owner just called. Said she had lost my number. Said she had called my banker to get it. Said banker told her everything was hunky dory on her end.
> Im going to give them a check for $500 escrow Which I get back upon signing bank note. Escrow will be cause for her to write me a contract between them and I so that I can start moving onto the place.
> That will be in effect until Oct. Si9nce it usually takes 60 days for things to get squared away with the bank, ital. be round Jan 1st when 1st payment comes due.


 Bill's first post on this thread.
It's a celebratory post, not ask for advice post.


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## starjj

po boy said:


> Bill's first post on this thread.
> It's a celebratory post, not ask for advice post.


 
So people offered advice on their own. We ALL know what he said didn't happen. October is right around the corner. The seller doesn't have $500.00 down and the loan is not approved in writing. There are more twists and turns to this thread then a crooked man's back.


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## fordy

..................Other things being equal , it's that $5,000 down payment that is going to be Bill's Undoing , If he hasn't got the Cashola to consumate the deal when it comes time to pay up ! , fordy


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## Shygal

I think its been a fairly fun thread :shrug:

Everyone has been acting like a bunch of mother in laws  me included lol


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## FarmboyBill

OH NO. NOT Mother In Laws lol


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## wr

Terri said:


> I cannot imagine that a young farmer would not pay a little for an old combine. The new ones cost SO! much!
> 
> Perhaps you can let folks at the extension office know about it? A lot of young farmers use them, sooner or later.
> 
> Or, you can let folks know at places that cater to us little folk: places that sell those little tractors and such, or an ad at a feed store. As one feed store owner said in an interview, "As the cities keep growing the older farmers were pushed out. But, we got enough hobby farmers to take their place and busines is good". I remember because that is the feed store I buy my chicken feed at.


Young farmers will buy older equipment but they generally need something reliable, operational and new enough that they don't have to buy 2 or three more for spare parts. Harvest needs to be completed when the crops are ready, not when you can get the old clunker running, which is why most equipment is leased or crops are custom combined now. 

It may do for a hobby farmer or something like that but most hobby farmers still want working equipment that is new enough they can still find parts at the dealer.


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## FarmboyBill

Well, Ill tell ya. ive likely drank milk, when I was from 3 to 20 a hundred times from a cow who had stepped her foot in the bucket. That milkl usually went to the kats, cause no matter how much or little was in the bucket she would cause some to be spilled. We didn't wash the bucket. just sat down and started over. After a few good cuss words. Im now healthy as a horse. Docs say I got HBP, and I take pills to humor my kids, but I don't believe it. My ankles are in the best shape they been in in ten years. That's cause of a steady diet of one a day can of tuna and fish oil pills. Yes I know that tuna has murcury in it. I spose that's the closest to a merc Ill ever get lol. I DONT have a doctor. I havnt been to the hospital in I don't know how many years. Over 10 at least. I can see to read print without glasses IF I want to, other than phone books, but I rather have a pair of glasses on when doing it. I can hear fairly well, other than I cant understand women when they talk fast, and as alla you men know.
U want to live in your sterile atmosphere. Go for it. Ill look for your obit. All my family are/were long livers, and Im likely to be also.my grand folks ate the same things I have ate. Didnt affect me none one way or the other, than the usual. Cows are the same way. IF I had the great granddaughter of Polly here right now, and fed her the same thing we fed Polly back in the 50s, she would do the same thing as her great grand mom. Shed give ALOT of milk. AND that same thing would be ground corn, grass hay and some alfalfa. Matter of fact. The granddaughter might do better as she would get OP corn fodder. Dad never had that.


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## FarmboyBill

yup, your right WR. I combined milo with it over 10yrs ago. Found out it went right through hogs, and chickens didn't like it near as well as corn, so that ended that.


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## sidepasser

My grandfather raised corn for his cows and let it dry on the stalk. Then he harvested the corn and us grandkids had to chop down the stalks and make sure we shocked them. Tied each of using a long leaf and stood them up like teepees. Hot work and itchy too. We fed that cob corn and fodder to the cows and mules. Pigs and chickens got corn off the cob but the pigs corn was soaked in water in a barrel before feeding. Other than grass hay I don't remember feeding much else except winter oats if he got a crop. Pigs were turned out to eat acorns in the fall. The butcher hog was put up in a small pen with a house and fed milk and corn and scraps. No meat though.

Just thinking about that reading about you milking cows lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## jwal10

Bill, what combine do you have? Over on YT they have a combine forum, many there collect combines. Not worth a lot unless in great shape. They take up a lot of space in a shed. 

....James


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## FarmboyBill

Got 2 AC 60s. One came with the other as a parts machine.


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## Guest

FarmboyBill said:


> Well, Ill tell ya. ive likely drank milk, when I was from 3 to 20 a hundred times from a cow who had stepped her foot in the bucket. That milkl usually went to the kats, cause no matter how much or little was in the bucket she would cause some to be spilled. We didn't wash the bucket. just sat down and started over. After a few good cuss words. Im now healthy as a horse. Docs say I got HBP, and I take pills to humor my kids, but I don't believe it. My ankles are in the best shape they been in in ten years. That's cause of a steady diet of one a day can of tuna and fish oil pills. Yes I know that tuna has murcury in it. I spose that's the closest to a merc Ill ever get lol. I DONT have a doctor. I havnt been to the hospital in I don't know how many years. Over 10 at least. I can see to read print without glasses IF I want to, other than phone books, but I rather have a pair of glasses on when doing it. I can hear fairly well, other than I cant understand women when they talk fast, and as alla you men know.
> U want to live in your sterile atmosphere. Go for it. Ill look for your obit. All my family are/were long livers, and Im likely to be also.my grand folks ate the same things I have ate. Didnt affect me none one way or the other, than the usual. Cows are the same way. IF I had the great granddaughter of Polly here right now, and fed her the same thing we fed Polly back in the 50s, she would do the same thing as her great grand mom. Shed give ALOT of milk. AND that same thing would be ground corn, grass hay and some alfalfa. Matter of fact. The granddaughter might do better as she would get OP corn fodder. Dad never had that.


wait a sec..
what happened to those bad legs which you complained about?? The ones which hurt a lot and failed you so much you had trouble walking across your yard?? What about the bad back?? What about a few years back when you needed some serious help rigging up a roof over the rabbit area???
I've listened for years ( yes, years) to you complaining about your health..now all of a sudden you're peachy-keen fine???? 

IF you've had some kind of miraculous cure, I'm thrilled for you, and see no reason whatsoever why you shouldn't be out there in heat, ice snow and mud, mucking stalls, loading hay bales, hauling feed sacks, tending to sick critters, etc. etc. with no need for a helping hand from anyone on at least 7 acres...more power to you ..


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## FarmboyBill

Ive NEVER had bad legs Lesley. My backs been fine for 25yrs or so. Its my ankles that usta KILL me. I couldn't walk down steps./ Could just barley walk up them.. Nowatas courthouse had 21 steps to the main entrance with a hand rail in the center, I walked up and down them Sat without using the rail. Walking at the sale dosent bother me at all hardly anymore. Standing still does. IF I stand for a little while, Then that seems to limit the ability to walk long.

My cure, as ive stated was a can of Tuna and a couple fish oil pills a day.

As to having help with the roof on the rabbits. I had a wind storm and had a lot of limbs down in the rabbit pens as I put them in a grove of trees to get the max shade. I had to have help removing the limbs, restraightening the tin on tops of the cages ect.

I THINK when I put the cages in place, I put the tin up by myself.


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## starjj

I never said anything about sterile cleanliness. I SAID I wouldn't buy, trade or drink milk from a place that was not clean. I perfer my milk without a cow stepping in it OR a unwashed bucket being used. If you think that is called sterile then you don't know the meaning of the word.

I really don't care that you were willing to drink milk under those conditions but I would bet that 99.9 percent of sane people would not drink milk a cow had stepped in. If you think this has casused you to live to the age you are right now then you are mistaken. Just because you don't have a doctor and haven't been to the hospital doesn't mean squat either.

I don't expect I will live a long life, genetics are not in my favor unlike your family. More power to you BUT it has nothing to do with me liking my surrounds CLEAN (note I did not say sterile).


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## FarmboyBill

As to your last. Whatever you think. I think the food my familys ate over generations has developed whatever genetics I have. Same as doing bad things over generations, drinking/smoking, ect will effect the genetics of succeeding generations I think.
The same as generations of farmers who have worked hard, that up to this generation where farmers don't work a fraction as hard as there forbears, and generations of people who have worked in offices, there bodies will be built differently. I think that's genetics also.
But, what do I know.


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## coolrunnin

Personally i prefer my milk NOT be flavored in this manner, and i think you will find if you try to sell it, most people would prefer your facilities and equipment be clean.

That's going to mean the area surrounding the barn! I sell 37 steers (this year) to customers who come to the farm to pick their animal and they expect a pastoral setting.

Your pictures show anything but a pastoral setting on your property, you really need to work on your marketing skills and your money management!

As has been said before you have had the opportunity to do the things you plan all through your career instead you make excuses why you couldn't, quit with the excuses get control of your spending (I highly suggest Dave Ramsey's course) and make this happen!

I'm really starting to get the feel you are in love with the idea of farming not so much the actual mechanics of it. Good luck with your plans, just get off the dime!


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## Classof66

I think most people will want their milk to be clean even if it is free. I would not give milk to a bottle calf if it had been stepped in, so many diseases can be transmitted.

This also means RUNNING water, and HOT water.

Use a nice clean rag to wash the udder too. 

Right now on Countryside Families there are some nice photos from Texas of what a farm should look like. They have Guernsey cows. Check out Miss Kays "Down on Our Farm"


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## wr

Classof66 said:


> I think most people will want their milk to be clean even if it is free. I would not give milk to a bottle calf if it had been stepped in, so many diseases can be transmitted.
> 
> This also means RUNNING water, and HOT water.
> 
> Use a nice clean rag to wash the udder too.
> 
> Right now on Countryside Families there are some nice photos from Texas of what a farm should look like. They have Guernsey cows. Check out Miss Kays "Down on Our Farm"



Not only do people expect it to be clean, selling or trading milk that has had a cow step in the pail can be incredibly expensive when a client ends up sick. 

Inadvertently passing on a dose of ecoli, even if no money has changed hands can result in a huge lawsuit with massive legal bills. 

Cleanliness and refrigeration are critical if you're selling milk, produce or meat and it doesn't matter if it's bartered or bought, certain standards have to be met.


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## FarmboyBill

I never expected to sell the milk. My kids when they were around 9 or 10, milked cows, and they had the same things happen to them. There still happy, healthy and alive.


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## Guest

I'd not drink milk contaminated by a manure-crusted hoof..nor would I serve it up to my family..


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## FarmboyBill

I seen hogs and chickens eat hog rap cause it had grain in it that had passed through the hog. We ate the hog and chickens. Others made sausage out of the entrails, ect. cracklins come from some of that I think. Don't know.


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## coolrunnin

FarmboyBill said:


> I seen hogs and chickens eat hog rap cause it had grain in it that had passed through the hog. We ate the hog and chickens. Others made sausage out of the entrails, ect. cracklins come from some of that I think. Don't know.


there's a point in this I'm sure.


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## coolrunnin

FarmboyBill said:


> I never expected to sell the milk. My kids when they were around 9 or 10, milked cows, and they had the same things happen to them. There still happy, healthy and alive.


If your not selling it why have milk cows? Just an expense you certainly don't need.


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## wr

FBB, do you have a plan to turn a profit or are you looking at it as a hobby farmette? I almost get the impression that when we've asked this question, you give answers that you think you should give but if you're looking at it as a way to keep busy and keep doing what you enjoy and profit income isn't needed, it's a whole different thing. 

Perhaps all you really want is a place to putter and stay active.


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## CountryWannabe

Just for the record: In cattle I only have a bull, a cow and their two offspring here. I do not milk her, so no, they are not all that much work other than in winter when I have to haul water and feed. I DID raise her heifer calf because I wanted to keep her tame so I could sell her as a prospective milk cow, and I can tell you that to do it right it IS quite some work, which is why they are WORTH $1000. I also raised a couple of other heifer calves for a friend and that was a lot more work than I remembered from way back when I helped my uncle on his Jersey farm. A lot of things we remember as being easy perhaps were so when we were 40-50 years younger, had energy to burn and a strong back and limbs to do anything we needed to do.

On the subject of feed: you have to know what you are putting into the animals to be able to expect quality meat/milk out. I expect my animals to be pasture grass raised during the spring/summer/early fall and expect to have to feed them hay and grains in the winter. I also expect to have a reasonable analysis of what nutrients they are receiving from their feed and forage, so I can know what minerals and/or other nutrients to give them to balance out their feed. That is common sense. It means I get the best out for what I put in, and at the least expense. 

I also have milk goats - only the two old girls, two 2yr olds and 2 doelings now, but at one time I had several that were all milked twice daily. At that time I sold the milk out the door, as is legal here in OK. That again is LOT of work, if you do it properly. You have to keep the premises clean. That is work. I cannot imagine anyone coming to get milk that doesn't want to see where you do the milking, see the animals the milk comes from and so on, so everything has to be kept clean and neat at all times and your animals have to be in prime condition. You have to clip, clean and rinse udders, and you have to keep all utensils spotless. More time and work. I REALLY can't imagine anyone deciding it would be OK to drink milk that had been milked into an unwashed pail, let alone had a foot in it. That is asking for a big, fat lawsuit.

Is all this necessary? If you expect to come out anywhere near breaking even, yes it is. If you expect to make it worth your while, you bet your bippy. If not - why do it? If you don't want to be sued because someone got ill from your contaminated milk. Yes, it is. If you don't want the health department around your neck - you betcha. We are no longer in the middle ages. People expect a modicum of cleanliness and they expect foodstuffs to be handled in a sanitary manner nowadays.

I know you will do whatever you want to do. More power to you. I just urge you to at least give some thought to it from a marketing perspective (if not a health one) first.

Mary

I have kept goats now for around 12 or more years. I have always kept the buck in with the does most of the time, other than when he is really stinky. I know some disagree with this but it works for me. I don't think I have ever had a kid killed by a buck. And I have had a lot of kids.


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## FarmboyBill

There was a diary in Kellyville. Scotts Dairy. It was there till they decided to divorce for whatever reason. It was on 10 acres MAX. It was a commercial dairy as I saw the simi come in and get their milk several times. He fed them everything they ate from what he bought and brought in. The stalls were I THINK 5 herringbone style. He had the electronic feed weighers dictated by the metal tags on the cows necks. The cows rapped SOFT green rap while they were milked. when the milk came down so did the rap. It ran off the sides of where they stood, as they were on a platform around 3ft higher than we was. It would run over on the floor where we stood. We bought all our milk from them, and so did many from Kellyville, and those passing by on ^^Gwy going to Bristow, Slick, wherever. They finally quit that cause people would steal the milk, and change out of the change box. 

Dad kept a jersey in the lot, around 50ft sq. He couldn't hardly walk anymore cause of a bad knee and being old. he fed her all that she got. He fed her solely on alfalfa hay and ground corn. he had salt and mineral blocks for her. I think he had 2 Jersey cows that way stretching over 35yrs or more.
My point is, They ALL aint like you describe.


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## Molly Mckee

My DH's family have been dairy farmers for over 100 years, and they have records on their cows and feeding programs. What you feed makes a huge difference in the amount of milk, so does clean, fresh water and a neat, clean barn. Anything that stresses the cows will decrease the amount of milk given.

The family barns and parlors are so clean you could do surgery or eat off the floor, it is a lot of work, but that's a grade A dairy in WI. Milking into dirty buckets does not happen, ever.


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## FarmboyBill

We got more milk than we could use. That seemed to suit us.
As to your point MM How many homesteaders do you think are set up as you say your inlaws are.


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## po boy

Bill,
REF; Molly
With all them cows, you going to have enough room to turn around a dozens of these things? What about housing for the dairy workers?


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## wr

FarmboyBill said:


> We got more milk than we could use. That seemed to suit us.
> As to your point MM How many homesteaders do you think are set up as you say your inlaws are.


Most homesteaders are set up to run a clean and safe operation. They may not have a 100 dairy cow operation but if they expect to sell product, the customer expects it to be clean and safe or they simply won't stay in business. 

Homesteaders sell eggs that have been washed and aren't covered in chicken manure, milk has to be clean refrigerated and free of bacteria and produce needs to look nice and fresh. If you're planning on selling meat, eggs, milk or produce, you might want to check Oklahoma regulations before you just head out because I think every state has certain minimum requirements one must meet before they sell direct or to a farmers market.


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## starjj

No you didn't say sell the milk BUT you did say trade for things you can't do so in fact that is selling it just in another way. Let's face it Bill your place is not clean. You can tell by the pictures it is not. 

Also the least you owe any animal is a actual nice life for it's purpose. Your goats suffered under your care, I imagine your chickens get food and water but you seem to loose a lot of them also. Here stalls and chicken house are kept clean and my chickens free range and get extras like watermelon (which I get cheap at the flea market) It doesn't have to cost a fortune to treat your animals well.


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## FarmboyBill

AND JJ I said trade it with the kids for things I needed doing. 
How did my goats suffer? they roamed the place went wherever they wanted on 20 acres. Slept wherever they wanted nearly. 
My chickens were always free range, and they got old garden produce as my small garden was around 15ft from the chicken house,
My chickens, for the most part came from an egg farm. That on the only other farm in the area I know about. They ran 30 000 chickens. had 2 feed mills and farmed several hundred acres. The chickens were 16/18 mos when I got them.
Lets face it JJ. you make up a lot of stuff that is only by the slightest bit truth and fill in a lot of your own spleen to make me look bad. Im no angel ill admit that. But I cant say that anything suffered much here after I was here by myself. The only things suffered here that I remember was the 2 cows, and that was because X wouldn't let me have money to buy grain for them, and they milked the calcium out of their bones.

WR How do you know what MOST homesteaders do? I sure don't. I cant say I know what ANY of them hardly do. You come up with information that is impossible to verify and quote it as gospel.


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## FarmboyBill

I was telling my DD what was said about washing milk buckets if a cow stepped in one. She laughed. She said, yeah right, like your going to go to the house and wash the bucket in hot soapy water, rinse and dry it, and then bring it back out to milk that cow again. The cow would have her eates ate and be wanting out by the time you got back.


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## sidepasser

I would think a second bucket would be in order. Feed the stepped in milk to chickens.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Guest

Go ahead and ask people .. Post a question up on HT or CF.. "How many of you who have milk cows ( or goats) would drink milk after the animal stepped in the bucket?? How many would serve that milk to their loved ones ??


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## po boy

If you grew up on a rural farm 50+ years ago, you know it was not uncommon for the cow to step in the milk bucket. You also know it was not uncommon to use the same bucket to continue milking and in some cases just strain the milk. There were eleven of us and I know my parents/siblings did it and no body got sick or died.

I will also add, that my parents were more sanitary than your average household today and if my dad were alive today, he would be 107.


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## gaucli

I for one am still wondering how a cow can get his foot in a bucket anyway. I have never been around cows so I don't know a thing about them..my grandpa was a pig farmer and we were more around them.
I think Bill is wanting to live out a dream while being closer to his family...and he doesn't need all the belittling that he is getting from some of these posts. He is just like the rest of us...only maybe he has a little more gumption and is going for it. I wish you all the luck in the world Bill.:kiss:


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## Molly Mckee

FarmboyBill said:


> We got more milk than we could use. That seemed to suit us.
> As to your point MM How many homesteaders do you think are set up as you say your inlaws are.


Actually, my in laws were truly homesteaders, they came to this country 4 generations ago from Denmark with not much more than the shirts on their backs. They did not want to be in-scripted into the German army.


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## FarmboyBill

And you think they as homesteaders came out to wherever they ended up by wagon and team and built themselves a gleaming white milk parlor? WITH concrete floors, running water in the barn bucket milkers, ect. HECK NO. They likely had an home made barn in which they stored hay grain and milked the cows, ALL In the same bldg. with dirt floors and open buckets.


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## elkhound

gaucli said:


> I for one am still wondering how a cow can get his foot in a bucket anyway. I have never been around cows so I don't know a thing about them..my grandpa was a pig farmer and we were more around them.
> I think Bill is wanting to live out a dream while being closer to his family...and he doesn't need all the belittling that he is getting from some of these posts. He is just like the rest of us...only maybe he has a little more gumption and is going for it. I wish you all the luck in the world Bill.:kiss:



very easy


[YOUTUBE]grp8z4VgYuw[/YOUTUBE]


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## elkhound

see that cow pump her head then the dog come into screen.....thats just one thing that was upsetting this cow.


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## po boy

elkhound said:


> very easy
> 
> 
> [YOUTUBE]grp8z4VgYuw[/YOUTUBE]


My parents had restraints(?) that had a u shaped metal gizmo on both ends connected with a chain. You could pull the chain tight to keep the cow from putting her foot in the bucket. There were exceptions to this being a viable solution .


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## elkhound

this thread needs to get a sticky up top because it has to be one of the ugliest wart covered things i ever seen.....lol


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## elkhound

po boy said:


> My parents had restraints(?) that had a u shaped metal gizmo on both ends connected with a chain. You could pull the chain tight to keep the cow from putting her foot in the bucket. There were exceptions to this being a viable solution .


yep....there are chains that look like handcuffs...but my favorite is the ones that slide down over hips and you crank it down tight.


that cows action before the dog enters says she is already upset...even at the start she has head in air and is looking ...shes already telling these folks with her body language she is upset.


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## FarmboyBill

We used those, but IF a cow was really antsie, she could fall over on you with them. As to the wishbone thingie,. Dad found out a trick. he took a rope and put it around a cows flanks just ahead of the bag and hip bones. It had a knot in it at a specified place, When the loop went over that knot, the pressure of the cow would keep it tight. She would not move a muscle until the milking was done and it was taken off of her.


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## elkhound

a person can hold a cows tell cranked up high and pushed forward towards spine to keep from kicking too...thats how we cut bull calves that we missed with the bander at a younger age.


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## po boy

elkhound said:


> yep....there are chains that look like handcuffs...but my favorite is the ones that slide down over hips and you crank it down tight.
> 
> 
> that cows action before the dog enters says she is already upset...even at the start she has head in air and is looking ...shes already telling these folks with her body language she is upset.


 The ones I remember would attach to the lower part of the leg and you would pull the chain and lock them to keep the cow from lifting a leg.


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## elkhound

elkhound said:


> a person can hold a cows tell cranked up high and pushed forward towards spine to keep from kicking too...thats how we cut bull calves that we missed with the bander at a younger age.




[YOUTUBE]YU2qjHGvuFM[/YOUTUBE]


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## FarmboyBill

Saw the clip. Didrt understand da word. Didn't see why he didn't try to save the bucket. once I got older, I learned NOT to jump away like he did, but to , when I felt her ready to make a move either block her leg with my left arm while pulling out the bucket with my right hand, OR thrusting myself forward with my L shoulder in her flank. that would be considered cow tipping LOL nowadays, but if she got off her balance, she wouldn't step forward as much as she would try to steady herself by putting her foot down. By the time she got steady and maybe wanting to try to step forward, id have the bucket out of the way. That was kinda hard for a GS kid to do with a near full bucket.
Nother thing. Dad bought a new EXPENSIVE seamless bucket to milk in. It got stomped by a cow he was milking as he was afraid to let us use it for the fear a cow would do to us what it did to him. After that, all he bought was the cheaper buckets with a seam. nobody knew that germs might get into that seam, heaven forbid. IF we had known we were drinking from a seamed bucket that always had germs in the seam where we couldn't get them out, we might have all died of fright by now.


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## FarmboyBill

the kant kicks I remember went above the (knee) of the cow and fastened or hooked from the back. The chain went around the front of the leg. There was a hole with a eyelet? in one of them. The hole was for sizeing up the chain. The eyelet? was for to hook the chain in place.


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## elkhound

http://www.farmandranchdepot.com/farm-equipment/Kow_Kant_Kick.html


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## elkhound

http://www.farmandranchdepot.com/farm-equipment/Kick-Stop.html


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## elkhound

http://www.farmandranchdepot.com/farm-equipment/Cow_Hobbles.html


old ones i have seen was chain and leather


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## FarmboyBill

yup. ive seen them for sale, and saw one used on a dairy somewhere. The top one.

I remember dad, who would have been in his early 40s then bought a poster of all the major milk cow breeds and tacked it up on the parlor wall. It was there until we quit milking. I think he took it down outa shame he hadn't made it as a dairyman. he had the remains of a buggy whip for instruction on both the cows and us. He finally wore it out. He later, I imagine after watching lash LaRue got a bull whip. He didn't use that on us as much as on cows and himself. When a cow acted up and he went and got it, hed be too mad to remember how to use it, and a few times he got as much as the recalicent cow lol.


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## po boy

No, This is like we had. 




I was the youngest ******** and my job was to feed the chickens and get the eggs. But, I do remember my older brothers using these.


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## FarmboyBill

yup. Just as I described them. We had a pair.


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## po boy

FarmboyBill said:


> yup. Just as I described them. We had a pair.


 I think we had two pair, just in case we got rich and could afford two cows and a bucket!


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## elkhound

stumbled across this....yall know me and thread drift...these kids rock.


[YOUTUBE]1XqBgVyjTdk[/YOUTUBE]


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## FarmboyBill

Lard, that reminds me of when mom made us go out on stage and play piano, accordion tap dance, ect.


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## FarmboyBill

She asks the da, er dummest questions just to get him to talk.


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## FarmboyBill

That's the cleanest bag I ever seen lol. We never clipped the hair on the bag, just strained it out.


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## starjj

For the record Bill I hardly have to make things up to make you look bad. Your way certainly seems to fits a certain bend in the truth. I just don't happen to care for truth benders. AND please stop blaming your ex for everything wheren't you a grown man?


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## FarmboyBill

I remember dad going to look at bucket milkers. We were in GS and didn't know anything about them. likely dad didn't either, as I never knew about them milkers needing pulsaters, vacumn pumps, ect. Maybe he found out, as he didn't buy any and soon got out of the dairy process and went to beef cows
What did your dads tie the cows up with? We used a rope around the horns..


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## FarmboyBill

Saw a vid where a gal was hand milking from behind the cow and between the legs.. u couldn't have paid me to do that with any of our cows. They wernt used to that, and they likely wouldn't have liked it. When they had something they didn't like, they had a solution that wasn't good.


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## elkhound

food for thought for bill....see that nice little milking set up the kids have....you could have that too with the selling off of a couple items and getting it built at a new place....this way you could make having a cow easier on you for a longer period of time as you age.


growing up we just put cows in a stanchion to milk...a bit of grain and she just put her head in and just slid stanchion shut and latch it...just like the set kids done in video.


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## FarmboyBill

We didn't have stations. just mangers. There was a box for feed and the manger held alfalfa hay. There were divders between the cows that was around 3ft high. That was so, If a cow went crazy one could fall back and under the divider and into the middle of the cow on the other side, which wouldn't have helped much,


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## FarmboyBill

Question.....Why couldn't someone sell milk in a primitive setup in bottles that was marked FOR PET FOOD ONLY??


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## Brighton

FarmboyBill said:


> We didn't have stations.


First of all they are NOT called Stations they are called Stanchions, and second if you sold me milk labeled "for pet consumption only" with cow flop in it for my dog and my dog got sick I would sue you!


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## coolrunnin

Pet food has to be "edible". Food grade everything


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## elkhound

Brighton said:


> First of all they are NOT called Stations they are called Stanchions, and second if you sold me milk labeled "for pet consumption only" with cow flop in it for my dog and my dog got sick I would sue you!


dont confuse us ********.......roflmao........:whistlin: :bowtie: :heh:


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## Brighton

elkhound said:


> dont confuse us ********.......roflmao........:whistlin: :bowtie: :heh:


I am not confusing you Elkhound and you know that!

Plus I watched the video with the delightful little boy, he knows more about sanitation and milking that FBB has known all his life!


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## elkhound

Brighton said:


> I am not confusing you Elkhound and you know that!
> 
> Plus I watched the video with the delightful little boy, he knows more about sanitation and milking that FBB has known all his life!



just was funing with ya a bit.....did you notice the boy turned teat up and squirted it in his mouth after milking was done but before he put dip on....roflmao......atta boy.....them kids are going to make great homesteaders and adults i bet.


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## Brighton

elkhound said:


> just was funing with ya a bit.....did you notice the boy turned teat up and squirted it in his mouth after milking was done but before he put dip on....roflmao......atta boy.....them kids are going to make great homesteaders and adults i bet.


That video made me quite happy as that is how I grew up!


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## elkhound

Brighton said:


> That video made me quite happy as that is how I grew up!



we never had a auto milker all by hand..but only had a single cow.

one my earliest memories in life was before i was old enough to go to kindergarten i would get up and go with my grandaddy and stand beside him while he milked.


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## Molly Mckee

FarmboyBill said:


> yup. ive seen them for sale, and saw one used on a dairy somewhere. The top one.
> 
> I remember dad, who would have been in his early 40s then bought a poster of all the major milk cow breeds and tacked it up on the parlor wall. It was there until we quit milking. I think he took it down outa shame he hadn't made it as a dairyman. he had the remains of a buggy whip for instruction on both the cows and us. He finally wore it out. He later, I imagine after watching lash LaRue got a bull whip. He didn't use that on us as much as on cows and himself. When a cow acted up and he went and got it, hed be too mad to remember how to use it, and a few times he got as much as the recalicent cow lol.


My in laws have a paid for farm worth several million dollars, are very well respected in their community, and have never used a whip on a cow, let alone a kid. You might want to look at other ways of doing things.


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## Brighton

elkhound said:


> we never had a auto milker all by hand..but only had a single cow.
> 
> one my earliest memories in life was before i was old enough to go to kindergarten i would get up and go with my grandaddy and stand beside him while he milked.


While I am older than you, and yes we only hand milked, by Grandpa and G Grandpa when I was a small girl, I can remember the milk cans and the truck coming out to get the milk and the cream (my Grandma ran the separator) until I was at least 6 or 7. I can also remember my Grandpa squirting milk to us and the barn cats, but everything was so clean even 45 years ago...doesn't make sense to sell milk that is poor quality and makes folks sick, does it??


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## Guest

Bill reminds me of an old neighbor lady my mother told us stories about . Seems that the old lady had milked & the old hound dog came by , lifted his leg & whizzed on & in the milk bucket . The old lady said ( dam- ) now I'll have to strain that milk twice .


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## littlejoe

A lot of you have fond memories of when your folks or grandparents had a milk cow, and that's great! A milk cow* can* be a big PIA to have around as well!!! I sold my last one ten years ago. Sometimes I had two, I would take milk for the house as well as raise several sets of nurse calves.

IF some think there is no need for some kind of force dealing with livestock, they just havn't been around livestock much. I can generally use some phsycology with livestock and do well, but sometimes there are time constraints, and faster methods are necessary. Just beating on something won't get you anywhere either, and you still have need for a thought process.

For those of you who get squeamish at the thought of manure dust and dirt being in the milk, you'd need one of the machines in the above video. There will always be dirt and manure dust clinging to a cow, and if your jerking tit into an open bucket, you will get some into it. That's why they make disposable filters to use when you pour it into a jar, or you can use a tea towel or something similar. Milking machines havn't been around but for a short while!

If I had no need for milk the calves got it all. Having calves on a cow will make them not want to let the milk down until a calf is there butting them for it. 

Having milk cows made money as well as supplied the house milk. I would run several sets of calves while I kept them fresh. They would get onery about coming in of an evening, so you had to find them before dark. Especially after switching their first set off. No problem if you have small pastures, different if they're out in a section or two. You've got to be there twice a day, every day. You've got to watch for estrous, so you can bring a bull in. I never ran mine with other cattle unless they were dry. No wonder about them getting onery...you put them in a head catch and hobble their hind feet, then turn 3 or 4 hungry, aggressive calves loose on them.

I suppose if I had more time I'd have some more nurse cows again, but I'd rather buy milk now than have to milk a cow for the milk. If I had the need I'd rather learn to like goat milk, and that's some nasty stuff!


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## FarmboyBill

Goat milks GREAT, IF you put the bucket your going to milk in, in the freezer all day and take it out when your going to milk. This in summer. When done milking bring it into the house, strain it into another container that has been in the freezer. Put milk and container back into freezer for an hour then into the refrigerator. Tastes great.

Molly, what my dad and forebears did was what they did. I cant change that, I keep noticeing you say your in laws never done this or that. I doubt if you were out in the barn every day of every year from say 1940 upward to see what they did.


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## coolrunnin

beating on your stock really slows milk production down we were never allowed to.


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## Terri

There are ninety-eleven ways of doing anything, and different people use different methods. And, perhaps half of those methods will work.

FBB's folks did it one way and Molly's in-laws did it another way. Such is life.

Personally I subscribe to my great-uncles way of thinking: he would say to never scare the cattle. They run the fat off and it makes them harder to handle. If my cousin brought in cattle that were less than relaxed then my cousin had some explaining to do!

I believe that the old cowboys did things differently but then the old cowboys did not own the cattle and my great-uncle did!


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## farmgal

This thread has many paths...lol We were gentle to our cattle. They were black angus beef and my parents said, you will bruise the meat or make it tough if you let the dog run 'em. The cattle were my responsibility if I wanted horses. But I was given whatever I asked for, so I thought it was fair trade. I loved my cattle and they loved me. 
We did milk goats when I was little. My father made a cheese similar to mozzarella. We would have large balls of this cheese hanging in the basement wrapped in wax. That was good stuff. 

Bill, what happened to all this money?

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...ee/483486-got-some-questions-first-place.html


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## FarmboyBill

Taxes took a third, I spent a third, and ive got a third in the bank


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## littlejoe

Hopefully I'm not an "old" cowboy yet? And scare or no scare, you need to make the right things easy and the wrong things difficult. It works with many things other than cattle.

I've loaded bulls and cows in a trailer parked in the middle of a pasture, when I was horseback. You have to be savvy enough to make them want to be in the trailer. You show them that is the safest place to be, by pressuring them when they want to leave it or not be near it. You relieve that pressure when they get close by turning your back and/or riding a short distance away. You just keep asking for a little more, and they will load up. It might take 15 min or it might take 45? Or if you want, you can just catch them and drag them in. Just depends on the amount of force you wish and time you have. It is a doable thing even with the rangy cattle we have here. It's all force,,,just different degrees of it!

But every degree of force requires sense! Yes, they need to be handled as easy as possible.



Terri said:


> There are ninety-eleven ways of doing anything, and different people use different methods. And, perhaps half of those methods will work.
> 
> FBB's folks did it one way and Molly's in-laws did it another way. Such is life.
> 
> Personally I subscribe to my great-uncles way of thinking: he would say to never scare the cattle. They run the fat off and it makes them harder to handle. If my cousin brought in cattle that were less than relaxed then my cousin had some explaining to do!
> 
> I believe that the old cowboys did things differently but then the old cowboys did not own the cattle and my great-uncle did!


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## FarmboyBill

There was a big ole guy who had NO patience AT ALL. W would walk up to his place, and he would take us and his 3 or 4 depending to school. He had one of the last custom threshing outfits, and likely the first combines in the country. he had 2 threshers, and 2 gleaner pull type combines that I never seen run. nobody else had such. ANYAY, one morning he figured to use his boy and us to help load hogs. He had her/them in the farrowing house. He was trying to get one down the center aisle way and she wasn't going. She was a big ole sow. He got mad, and while I had my eyes on her trying to make sure she didn't go back on us and he construe it was my fault, he left. he came back with a pitchfork and started jabbing her with it. I had my leg against the middle of her side, and the other behind her rump and he nearly got my right leg with an extra tine. We got her loaded, but she had rows of blood spots all along her back.
He had ha d the only first pond in the country also. He got a kick out of, after us helping with haying making us go to the pond, strip down and jump in. he liked to pick us up and see how far he could throw us. When we landed he would get over to where we were and be ready to pick us up and do it again. After awhile of that u started to run outa air, He had 3 girls. He made them stay at the house while he was simi drowning us lol.
One time we were helping him put up hay. he had his boy who was a year older than me down at the wagon putting bales on his JD hay elevator. That was a long thing. e were near enough to the top I could grab the hay rail to steady myself with. He had to hunker down. He wore a straw hat, we were caps. Bees were everywhere. Suddenly I saw him take off his hat, make a swat, then put it on. I grabbed a bale and turned to take it back when I saw him suddenly hit the top of his head, then jump on the elevator with it running and hay coming up and run down it. Made an impression with me. Sure didn't dare to laugh. I was likely still in GSA or just in HS.


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## FarmboyBill

Dutchie, Did you get the E mail I sent you on that place??


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