# Great Pyrenees: what age do they actually guard?



## HomeOnTheFarm

We have two GP pups (4 months old) around our sheep, chickens, ducks, kids. They aren't afraid of noises, are very social with us, but won't stay with the sheep (what we want their primary responsibility to be), won't stay with the birds, and are afraid of the raccoon that showed up last night. Please tell me that one day their mindset as LGD will "click"?


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## debd0712

Right now they are just babies. They will not really be effective as LGD's until at least 8 months or so, and then they are just really starting. In order to keep the dogs with the sheep you must have very good fences which they can not escape from. At this age you will also have to really watch them. They will go through stages when they "play" too rough with livestock (especially birds and young stock of other species) until they are at least 1 year old. The unwanted behavior normally tapers off after 1 year of age (but may last longer) and they will eventually become worth their weight in gold. (There are the exceptions who just are not suited for LGD's.) The GP's I have had ended up being fantastic LGD's, but they had to grow up first. I got my first 2 GP's when they were 4 months old. Ended up getting a donkey to protect the stock until the dogs matured. Good luck - they should eventually do the job you would like them to.


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## TedH71

I would pen the dogs up around the sheep in their own private pens and they'll bond more with the sheep that way. I personally won't get two pups of the same age because they'll bond to each other and not much else. Not worth the hassle.


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## KatsFarm

My pyr is 6 months old and it seems she has been "on guard" almost from the start, she was 2 months old when we got her. She protects the goats and the chickens and ducks. And me! She bonded with me the moment we met. 

When we brought her home it took a couple of weeks for her and the goats to get over their fears and get in each others face. Since then she spends her days laying near their gate, watching and standing guard. She automatically started to herd them into their shelter, and from the shelter to their yard. 

She has also been chasing the chickens back to their own area when they wonder off.

Right now she is still at a playful stage and doesn't realize how rough she plays. I am sure she will mellow out once she gets a bit older.


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## silvergirl

It sounds like KatsFarm's dog has a natural instinct for protecting her critters! That's wonderful. I was blessed with that in my first Great Pyrenees - George - but he was overwhelmed trying to keep predators away on his own, so I brought in a female to work with him. He took to Pickle right away and taught her to patrol the perimeter. He took her up to the ridge line and showed her where their territory lay. After that, he would just face in the direction he thought predators were coming from, bark like mad, jump up and down on his front feet - and then Pickle would race up to the ridge line and George would patrol down below. They were a great team until my George went missing on the mountain. A few months later, I brought in a new 10 month old male Pyrenees - a rescue - and Pickle took up the role of instructor - she taught Buddy just the way George had taught her years earlier... They are an amazing team, and absolutely dedicated to keeping their critters safe. Buddy even scans the skies for chicken hawks! They are the best dogs in the world, but they make me laugh... everything is taken under advisement - and they decide for themselves whether listening to me will interfere with their job. If they think it will, I get thoroughly ignored, even if it's a call to come for dinner! I think these dogs have a natural instinct to protect or they don't, but having an experienced mature dog to show them the ropes has been a critical component for my dogs' training... I didn't train them to protect, the older pup taught the newbie, and I've been blessed to have that happen twice now as each generation 'passed the torch'.


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## KatsFarm

silvergirl said:


> ... everything is taken under advisement - and they decide for themselves whether listening to me will interfere with their job. If they think it will, I get thoroughly ignored, even if it's a call to come for dinner! I think these dogs have a natural instinct to protect or they don't


We had the opportunity to experience this ourselves about a week ago. The chickens and ducks were out foraging in the yard and Sophie somehow got off her tether and went to work(?) chasing the fowl. I heard the commotion outside and saw Sophie with a paw firmly holding down one of the ducks, I called out to her in shock, and it was enough to distract her so the duck could escape into the hen house unharmed. Sophie just stood still a moment looking at me as if to say "what's up?"... then she spotted chickens out where she thought they shouldn't be, looked up at me, and took off for the chickens and chased them all into the hen house!

DH was in a panic thinking she was attacking the birds. Not one of them was harmed, just a bit shaken. Once I explained that she was doing her job, he relaxed, a bit. 

I must admit, that first display of her protecting the chickens was scary at first, but now I am more at ease and not worrying so much whether she will be able to cope here on the farm. 

Must say, after the fact, that it was a pretty funny scenario that played out day.

We are trying to get her adjusted to sleeping outdoors now. I don't like it, but she needs to be with the goats to protect them. We know there are predators around, they just haven't gotten wind of our livestock yet.


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## HDRider

Maybe I have been very lucky. Mostly, we did have one chicken incident.

I got my two, AS/GP cross, at 12 weeks old. They have been with chickens from day one. They are spending the days penned(after the chicken incident), and the nights roaming about 9 fenced acres.

We have *****, skunks, possums, coyotes and such. Lucky so far.

One pup looks GP, the male, and the female looks Anatolian.


Great dogs. They are 4 months old now.


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## KatsFarm

From what I have learned from neighbors and from walking my land in search of footprints, there are coyotes (we have seen three here, but none since we have began to come every couple of weeks or since we have moved here). Plenty of deer, I have seen bear prints and a large cat whose paw was nearly as large as the bear's. 

We are looking to get a partner for our pyr since I don't want her to face off against a bear or coyote alone. Every night she looks out at the tree-line and gives her "big bark" I suppose to let any possible intruders know she is keeping guard. Yes, she has a "big bark" which is a deep voice, unlike her normal voice which still sounds very young.

We haven't had any predators, except hawks and buzzards, but I am sure that will change when winter sets in and food becomes scarce.


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## peteyfoozer

Truly they are too young to be reliable. It's difficult to remember that even though they grow to enormous proportions these dogs are juveniles until they are 2 years old. The best way to raise them is to have them penned adjacent to the livestock so they can bond with them, while unsupervised as they will go through stages in adolescence of chasing, playing, fur pulling, etc. that can be dangerous or even fatal to their charges. It's normal puppy stuff and best prevented than cured. The LGD that does not go through these stages with their stock are the exception, not the norm. They will grow up to do their job when they are mature enough.


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## Jreed

4 months old is tiny puppies, Males mature slower than females but any less than 18 months old is to young to expect adult responsibility. 

I build a shelter that went over the pasture fence on both sides and build 2 corrals on each side of the fence, one is for the sheep, and one is for the guardian who will go there 5-6 months old once she is big enough to stay in the corral and cant fit through the cattle panels that i used for the corrals.

If I feel the dog is not safe I will crate her in a large crate at night but overall on small acreage 20ish. Her barking at all is enough to alert me or my terriers until she can handle her own business. 

I will allow the dog to run free in the day and be in the corral all night or in the sheep pasture when she is an adult , any unsupervised time will also be in the corral.


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## HomeOnTheFarm

Well, it's been awhile, so an update is in order. They are growing into their guardian roles (sort of). They are no longer afraid of anything (except me in certain situations, which we'll get to).

They left the chickens alone, killed some of our turkeys (not sure how many, since we also caught coyotes sneaking up and picking the turkeys off before the pups got big enough), killed some our ducks (one of the pups, not both), and patrol at least 200 acres (not all of it ours). They seem that hate coyotes and are keeping them back, no sign of opossum, raccoon, or skunk for months. I even caught one of them chasing a low-flying hawk one day that had been scoping out our birds.

I have hope they will continue to grow into their roles, though they still don't hang out with the sheep very often. I'm a bit worried about their reaction when the ewes start lambing, but hoping for the best!


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## Pyrpup2016

I highly recommend that you to to the Bountiful Farm website and read the training articles - very good resource of what to expect and what to do at the various ages. At their ages, they probably shouldn't be unsupervised with the lambing ewes, they're still very much adolescents! Especially don't allow them both together with the birthing - unless you're there too. Too much temptation for misbehavior, and it's so much easier to avoid bad habits starting than to fix them.


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## HomeOnTheFarm

Well, we have our first lamb (she's adorable!); the dogs were off on their morning rounds when it was born, and we were there to introduce them. I held the lamb as I showed it to them and firmly repeated "Mine!" and "Leave it!". Both have stayed close though (when they're home) and I honestly don't know if it is to keep and eye on it for good intentions or to size it up for a recipe. 

We have three more ewes set to lamb, and I'm thinking about locking the dogs in the sheep trailer at night since nobody is outside to keep an eye on them at that time.

I have been keeping the ewe and lamb penned for the majority of the day, but the lamb is strong enough to easily keep up with the rest of the flock. She is bouncy and fun, and I worry that this will draw the dogs to her.

The mom HATES the dogs being anywhere near her lamb. She actually ran off the one dog that was in the sheep pasture, he was genuinely scared of her but didn't turn to defend himself. I'm less worried about him than his brother. 

I thought we'd done our research before getting these dogs, but we really weren't set up right. Our sheep were wild when we first got them so the pups couldn't just hang out with a tame flock and bond with them; instead, the dogs bonded with each other. The dogs roam, and I don't know how far (we have 160 acres), but it seems like they're out roaming most of the day (though they come back at night). The upshot is that there are very few coyotes that come anywhere near this place (there is a rampant coyote problem out here). 

Sorry for the vent, I'm just a bit overwhelmed, this being my first time with the breed. Thanks for your advice, it is appreciated!


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## M Dickerson

I have a great Pyr she’s 6 months old. I’m a single mom and I wanted a large dog that was gentle and had watch dog nature. I’m wondering when that might kick in. I had a friend creep in my house in the middle of the night as a test. He came through the garage and the dog didn’t even flinch or have any desire to check out what was going on. It was a little disappointing


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## Oregon1986

I'm not really sure but even at 6 months old mine was really protective. One of our hogs tried getting me and he bit the hog on the butt and chased him off


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## Bearfootfarm

HomeOnTheFarm said:


> but *won't stay with the sheep *(what we want their primary responsibility to be), won't stay with the birds


They should be confined with the sheep. They will likely never "stay with the birds" because that's not what they have been bred to protect. If they barked at the Raccoon, that's good enough to deter them in most cases.


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## aart

M Dickerson said:


> I have a great Pyr she’s 6 months old. I’m a single mom and I wanted a large dog that was gentle and had watch dog nature. I’m wondering when that might kick in. I had a friend creep in my house in the middle of the night as a test. He came through the garage and the dog didn’t even flinch or have any desire to check out what was going on. It was a little disappointing


Pyrs are for guarding livestock and land, not people so much....and they aren't great indoors, too hot for them.


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## Ridgetop

If you have 160 acres the Pyrenees will try to guard all of it. We had 5 Pyrs over the past 30 years and they set their own boundaries - not our fences. I have seen one of our Pyrenees actually climb a 6' chain link fence. Another could get through a piece of stock panel that was missing one bar! She was like a cat. They were wonderful, sweet tempered dogs but never stayed with the livestock except during kidding and lambing season when they would stake out the lambing barn. BUT we never lost any livestock and the neighbors all knew our dogs and would call me to tell me that they had run off packs of coyote from their property too. LOL We switched to Anatolians about 5 years ago, and really like them. They seem to stay with the sheep much better than our Pyrs did. I think it is a difference in how the different breeds guard. Our Anatolians stay with the sheep, where our Pyrs made sure that the entire surrounding acreage was safe. 
Your 4 month pups need to be locked up at night because a coyote can take one of them easily. If you want them to bond with your sheep you need to pen them next to the sheep, not in the pen with the sheep. Since you have 2 pups you don't want to do anything to encourage them to play roughly with the new lambs. The mama sheep will butt them if they get too close and that can be detrimental to the puppies bonding with the sheep. Put the pups on a leash and take them in with the sheep and lambs. You need to train the pups to stay back from the newborns until the mama allows them to approach. you can do that by taking them in one at a time on a leash and praising them when they stay back from the ewes quietly. 
There is an excellent book about LGDs written by Brenda Negri called "the Way of the Pack". Don't let the name fool you, it is not necessarily about running dogs in packs, although she discusses using multiple guardian dogs. I have had LGDs for 30 years and I really enjoyed this book. I have added it to my livestock library for reference. My husband (who never reads this sort of book) actually read it and is using some of the information on our new Anatolian puppy.


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## red1

I was biking down the road and heard this "pad pad pad" sound..looked down and holy cow! Someones horse has gotten lose and is following me!!! A GP...figured a female, right next to my right side..loping along..Wouldn't let me scratch her ears..would shy away. Didn't know me. So this happened a few times, she would go so far and start looking back, stop and then walk back...Then one day as I was passing this residence with the dog, I hear this loud barking..more than one dog..I swear the ground started shaking, trees were falling over and THEN!! Out of the grass came 3 GP, definitely raising hell.. One looked like a damn lion!..and a younger one and the one that followed me. The male was huge..and he tried to mount me!! Seriously, he got on his hind legs and came up behind me..leaned against my back and started nibbling on my pearl azumi jacket collar..!! So I got ticked off..they just wanted to play I guess...stopped the bike, picked up a handfull of gravel and chucked it at the whole lot of them...They just backed off into the ditch and look indignate.. Since then the owner must have put in an invisible fence..they would only come out so far..about 30 feet in from the ditch...A great experience .. ..and excellant security for the property...


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## GTX63

My neighbor's GPs, Jethro and Ellie Mae live, breathe and exist for only one reason-find something that shouldn't be where it is.
I have never seen a dog as big, fat, wooly and old (8) get under a barn gate as fast as Ellie Mae.
Single minded, single purposed.


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## nehimama

I've always had GPs with my herd of dairy goats; two since puppyhood. Those two needed correcting often for attempting to chase or play with their charges. They matured and turned out well. The female would always get out of the pen/pasture I'd assigned her to. One day, as i was once again returning her to "her" pasture, she stopped at the gate of the first pasture. I opened the gate for ME to enter, and Sally barged right past me. After that, she never got out again. I think she liked all the babies in the first pen. She chose her assignment, and she was very good at it.

There were two others that liked to roam far and wide. During calving season, my neighbor's herd had several Red Angus calving. One evening there was a huge commotion up the hill on Junior's place. It sounded like a pack of coyotes, excitedly yipping and shrill barking. Junior grabbed his shotgun, and went to investigate. He came upon a cow calving and a pack of coyotes attacking the calf as it was being born. My Pyrenees were there, too, attacking the coyotes. They did run the predators off and saved the cow and her calf. Junior REALLY liked my dogs after seeing how they worked.

I never lost any animals to predators as long as the GPs were in charge.


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## Danaus29

Mom got a puppy when she was trying to keep goats. The goats turned out to be more hassle than they were worth but the Pyrenees stayed. The dog does a good job of keeping deer out of the gardens but is not so good about keeping mink out of the chicken coop. Dog stays in the house during the day in this heat. A couple days ago, dog was setting in the dining room staring at a corner and barking. Finally Mom went to look, there was a spider in the corner. Mom killed the spider, dog went to her favorite air duct, laid down and went to sleep. Spider wasn't even a nasty one like a Black Widow.

Dog also barked at the mice in the kitchen one year. Just laid on the floor and gave a low woof once in a while. Would not even raise her head. Once the mice were gone, dog stopped barking.


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## GTX63

My neighbors Pyrenees, Ellie Mae and Jethro, have an automated barking program.
A passing truck, a squawking Raven, a snapping tree branch, and acorn hitting the goat shed, will set off a barking spree that continues for about 12 minutes and 43 seconds. Any noise during that time will reset the clock.
It is amazing to see how, with such thick, heavy coats, and as large as they are, that they will still run full bore across 10 acres, to whatever noise they see as a threat.


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## hiddensprings

Your dogs are still pups AND it depends on how they were raised from birth how their guarding will go. The first two Anatolian shepherd that I purchased for livestock guarding were born in the pasture with goats. Raised in the pasture with goats. When I picked them up, it was the first time they had been handled except for puppy shots. I brought them home and put them in the pasture with my goats. They learned that I was the nice lady that brought them food, but they were never pets. They wanted to be the goats more then anything. When I started raising them my Anatolian shepherd pups were born in the pasture with the goats. I would suggest putting your pups in the pasture with the sheep, even if you have to put them in a separate fenced within the pasture fence. Right now, they think you are way cool.....so why bother with the sheep.


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