# What are your views on immigration?



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Without becoming political, can you share what your views are on this?
Seems like some folks want the borders completely open and some want them closed. What should we do about unaccompanied minors, and caravans from Central America?
im not exactly sure what my opinion is yet. I certainly don’t think the borders should be open, but I dont necessarily think people should be seeking refugee status here when they’ve already been offered it in Mexico. The unaccompanied minor issue is tough.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Just shut this thread down now. Ask for access to the Dark Rooms. Absolutely no way to discuss this without someone getting their panties is a wad.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I already asked admin if it would be okay And I do think most people here can discuss without bringing politics into it.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I don't know if you can discuss immigration without it becoming political. Its such a highly charged topic. However, I'm happy to share my opinion. I believe in LEGAL immigration. To me, that means you follow the legal process of entering the country with the hopes of becoming a citizen. My husband was in the military. I NEVER entered another country illegally. Never! When he retired, he worked in Mexico for a job. He had to go through all types of paperwork to get the property paperwork to be there legally to work. If he did not have the papers on him and he was stopped by police, he would go to jail. We, as Americans, follow other country's rules to live and work in their countries, but apparently, the U.S. (at least at this point in time) simply opened the flood gate and said "come on in". Honestly, its one of my hot buttons. I hate Illegal immigration. 
The unaccompanied kids is, as far as I'm concerned, nothing but a crock of crap. Sorry, but no decent parent is going to say to their kid "start walking until you get to America....they will take care of you". Send the kids back. Send them all back until they have the proper documentation in hand. You are correct when they can easily stay in Mexico, but no, they keep coming. What really ticks me off the most is that for over a year the U.S. has been locked down due to Covid. So U.S citizens are locked up and now we are allowing EVERYONE to come in.....hummmmm, it Covid not a problem at the border with illegals? Only citizens can get it? Sorry, you've got my head spinning now.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

hiddensprings said:


> I don't know if you can discuss immigration without it becoming political. Its such a highly charged topic. However, I'm happy to share my opinion. I believe in LEGAL immigration. To me, that means you follow the legal process of entering the country with the hopes of becoming a citizen. My husband was in the military. I NEVER entered another country illegally. Never! When he retired, he worked in Mexico for a job. He had to go through all types of paperwork to get the property paperwork to be there legally to work. If he did not have the papers on him and he was stopped by police, he would go to jail. We, as Americans, follow other country's rules to live and work in their countries, but apparently, the U.S. (at least at this point in time) simply opened the flood gate and said "come on in". Honestly, its one of my hot buttons. I hate Illegal immigration.
> The unaccompanied kids is, as far as I'm concerned, nothing but a crock of crap. Sorry, but no decent parent is going to say to their kid "start walking until you get to America....they will take care of you". Send the kids back. Send them all back until they have the proper documentation in hand. You are correct when they can easily stay in Mexico, but no, they keep coming. What really ticks me off the most is that for over a year the U.S. has been locked down due to Covid. So U.S citizens are locked up and now we are allowing EVERYONE to come in.....hummmmm, it Covid not a problem at the border with illegals? Only citizens can get it? Sorry, you've got my head spinning now.


It is highly charged but you did a great job explaining g your views without bring politics into it.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I would like to reply other than to say thanks to hiddensprings for echoing my feelings. Right now here on the border things have gone to hell. After an 18 hour trip home for a bit of R&R, we are dealing with the problems created by this. So no I don't think my thoughts would be either kind nor printable in this forum.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I agree with @hiddensprings


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

I think we have enough people in the country for the foreseeable future.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

I agree with @hiddensprings 
Legal immigration only


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

If it was my call, illegal immigrants would be heavily penalized to the point it wasn't worth the effort to try to sneak in. Same with anyone knowingly hiring an illegal immigrant. Same with anyone aiding or abetting an illegal immigrant. 

Seasonal workers would be allowed, not to exceed 6 months per year in US.

Anyone in the country illegally would be removed and barred from ever entering the US in the future.

Congress made the law and it's up to the government to enforce it until such time as Congress changes it.

In terms of legal immigration, the ability and willingness to assimilate would be important criteria.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I just want to know how far were they unaccompanied ? Not sure on the spelling.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

TripleD said:


> I just want to know how far were they unaccompanied ? Not sure on the spelling.


I’m curious about that too.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

All immigration should be legal. It is legal to enter the country or present yourself at the border and then ask for asylum. Then there is a legal process that must be followed.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Asylum from what?

Why should it be legal?

What about Syria, or Iraq or Japan?
Should they also open borders indiscriminately?


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

If I wanted to hire a farmhand and received 1000 applications, I'd increase the required qualifications. Would be sweet to find someone that cleans stalls and is a diesel mechanic. I could get fussy if I had so many wanting to work for me. The US imports more immigrants than anyone in the world, about a million a year. But 5 million want to live here legally and 15 million want to be here illegally. For over 100 years, the US only accepted healthy adults that had US citizen sponsors that committed to keep them off the welfare.
Fewer than 3% of the illegal aliens in the US do farm labor. 35% of illegal aliens are on welfare. 

Canada for the past 100 years required immigrants to posses skills that Canada needed. Currently, Canada requires prgnant women entering Canada to be able to fund their delivery. While, like the US, born in Canada is a Canadian citizen, they avoid "Anchor Baby" by allowing the newborn citizen to return to Canada after they become an adult, but must leave the country with their mother.

If you lean towards humanitarian, go to youtube and search immigration gumballs for an eye opening set of facts.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’m curious about that too.


I have a couple of nephews that can't tell me how to make it to Lowe's . Just 30 miles away but they can direct me to every fast food place!!!


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

My views are that the existing immigration rules are sufficient. They should be stringently enforced. They should not be modified to allow easier access to this country or to allow more to enter. Personally would like to see the process to be even more restrictive.


Hidden springs and haypoint said it well.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Canada's immigration qualifications seem logical. 






Immigrate to Canada - Canada.ca







www.canada.ca


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> Canada's immigration qualifications seem logical.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe the caravans can head up there?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> Maybe the caravans can head up there?


I hear that a fairly large group may be housed near the Canadian border. 😊


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Immigrants should not be given welfare, free housing, free health care, any govt handouts. Legal or illegal, no handouts. I would want to either adopt a new restriction on "anchor babies" that prevents their family from getting welfare if the child is born to illegal immigrants. For a humanitarian standpoint we could build and staff a hospital in Mexico and keep pregnant illegal immigrants there, preventing "anchor baby" status in the US.

As for the unaccompanied minors, house them in something like a boarding school and send them home when they turn 18.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

painterswife said:


> All immigration should be legal. It is legal to enter the country or present yourself at the border and then ask for asylum. Then there is a legal process that must be followed.


Regardless of whether they have a communicable disease? Or are child predators? Or are gang members? Or are carrying narcotics? Or were sent as juveniles so their "parents" can access later? The statement "All immigration should be legal." is not a rational position, imho.


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

painterswife said:


> All immigration should be legal. It is legal to enter the country or present yourself at the border and then ask for asylum. Then there is a legal process that must be followed.


Would you ever consider sponsoring an immigrant individual, family, or even a unaccompanied minor from Central America, as part of the ”legal process”? Not sure if that only applies to family members or not, but the push for an open immigration without job/housing/food security other than government sponsored is ludicrous. No disrespect intended, I am just interested in your thoughts on why “all immigration should be legal”.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Simple 

1 close all the boarders no one comes or goes except at an official boarder crossing.

2 no one comes or goes without appropriate visa or passport.

3. if companies need labor of foreign nationals then they can sponsor them on a work visa 

4 any company hiring a person with out proper work visa , is fined 10K for employing them and 1K for each day they employed them.

5. we already have standards to immigration , review them but unless the nation has a need to fill. encouraging the smart motivated people to stay and make their countries a better place rather than flee the issues isn't really building the world. it is everyone running from the problems.

6 We have a Lot of people here Illegally I hate to reward law breaking however just the sheer number of people here is an issue, give them 1 year to register and for registering they get a 5 year visa , conditional on behavior we don't need to keep criminals. renewable if they maintain a clean criminal record and maintain employment.

unfortunately people who know they are hiring illegally treat people as disposable workers , not caring about their health safety or welfare.

there are hard working people no doubt , working hard here is better than dying to the hands of the gang or cartel in their own county.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

I think we need better legal immigration, and stop the illegal immigration.

that is a short answer of a complex situation. I think one of the Bush’s had a good plan back many years ago, but neither party was interested.

I think we need the workers, because our own population doesn’t want to do dull jobs. That is what it is.

I think we need to stop illegal immigration cold. It sets up an underground workforce that hides from authority which basically turns them into a slave labor force the employers can abuse. Terrible for anyone who supports this!

I’m totally befuddled by this, and it is clear we won’t be given any truth about it:









Getty Photographer Removed While Doing Job at Border by Law Enforcement Because of Biden Media Ban


This is so wrong, just straight up suppression of the press...




redstate.com


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

It is a mess. The news media makes the "unaccompanied minors" sound like helpless toddlers when most seem to be teens. It wasn't that long ago in this country that a young person usually male struck off on their own at 14, 15, 16 so treat them as adults. They are obviously emancipated from their parents.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

It should never be a political issue imo. It is economic, humanitarian and necessary. But only if it is regulated. 

Some want more taxes but because of illegal immigration there is a multi trillion dollar shadow economy that doesnt pay income taxes. They also cause other business that does pay taxes to have to shut down. You want to know why some companies hire illegals? This is one reason why. It leaks from both ways that way. 

On the other hand, most immigrants come over here hungry. They are driven to achieve. We need these type people but it has to be legally. 

Dont get me started on the unaccompanied children. Most here know my stance on that and if I said that here some would try and make it political.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

TripleD said:


> I just want to know how far were they unaccompanied ? Not sure on the spelling.


Actually they're not unaccompanied, coyotes bring them. The coyotes are paid to get them here, coyotes aren't that interested in taking care of these kids just the money, with as little expense as possible.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

This is a easy one , we should finish our wall and keep every one on the other side.
There I said it .👍 
really unaccompanied minors my Azz every one in the world knows that if you are under age and a refuge the us government will take you in, they are scamming us . It’s fact ! 
‘my Chinese daughter was sent here at 13
once here , she was assaulted by a family member then sold in to slavery . 
She slipped out a window and found a cop then CPS dropped her off on my door . 
CPS called her family in China and they where told they did not want her back , her father said she would be killed if she went back . BINGO REFUGEE Status. Free ride .
no one could blame the girl but her father new what he was doing .
11 years latter she is a American citizen all paid for by the US government .
It was a big lie .


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Every time I hear that our citizens won’t do the menial labor type jobs I think why should they? They can ride free! Shut down the freebies and our own people would be clamoring to harvest our crops. They would also insist that immigration laws be enforced to protect those jobs.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

To those who want open borders, why do you lock your doors at night, have a fence around your backyard ? Why not leave your garage door, and front entry door wide open....who are you trying to keep at bay ?

I have no problem with LEGAL immigration, but why should fence jumpers have any rights ?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> should never be a political issue


Should, would, could

It is nothing but a political issue


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Should, would, could
> 
> It is nothing but a political issue


It shouldn’t be. It in everyone’s best interest except a handful of politicians.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> It in everyone’s best interest except a handful of politicians


Naïve thinking.

It drives wages down, so business likes it. It creates dependents so one party likes it. It creates a wedge issue so the other party likes it. People like low cost field vegetables and plucked chicken, so everyone likes it.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> Immigrants should not be given welfare, free housing, free health care, any govt handouts. Legal or illegal, no handouts. I would want to either adopt a new restriction on "anchor babies" that prevents their family from getting welfare if the child is born to illegal immigrants. For a humanitarian standpoint we could build and staff a hospital in Mexico and keep pregnant illegal immigrants there, preventing "anchor baby" status in the US.


Just realized I didn't finish my thought. The other idea, which would require the constitution to be revised, would be to adopt the clause that babies born in this country to illegal immigrants would not be granted the rights of citizenship until they turn 18 and apply for citizenship. Redefining "natural born citizen" to mean babies born to parents who reside legally in the US.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

In response to questions to my previous post.

All immigration should be legal. No illegal immigration should be allowed. I note though that it is legal to enter the country or present yourself at the border and claim asylum. There is a legal process that is required after that and should be followed.

I also don't think that short-term employment-based immigration should be granted unless it includes a process to gain permanent status and a path to citizenship. If you need to hire from outside the country then you need more workers. Otherwise, it is just slave labor with no rights.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Naïve thinking.
> 
> It drives wages down, so business likes it. It creates dependents so one party likes it. It creates a wedge issue so the other party likes it. People like low cost field vegetables and plucked chicken, so everyone likes it.


Your plucked chicken cost you 16.50 an hour and is union now. The hand picked stuff I but at the farmers market cost a lot more than the stuff John Deere picks fore me.


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## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

From somewhere in the 1920s to 1965, the country was closed. It took an act of congress to get someone in. Immigrants had to be sponsored by a citizen who had to see that theydidn't become a ward of the state. The country was closed to allow the previous immigrants to assimilate and become Americans in attitude.
The worst of all this is that every immigrant that's here is a citizen of another country that isn't fixing their own country.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Naïve thinking.
> 
> It drives wages down, so business likes it. It creates dependents so one party likes it. It creates a wedge issue so the other party likes it. People like low cost field vegetables and plucked chicken, so everyone likes it.


Yours is the naive thinking. Everyone thinks all these companies are hiring cheap labor. That's what your told and you believe it. Truth is that doesn't happen that much these days. 

Illegals come over and start their own business. Then, you hire them to build your house or re-tile the bathroom. Then, you get on your computer and gripe about the evil business people. 

Get into the new century and do a bit more research.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Naïve thinking.
> 
> It drives wages down, so business likes it. It creates dependents so one party likes it. It creates a wedge issue so the other party likes it. People like low cost field vegetables and plucked chicken, so everyone likes it.


No reason for Americans not to harvest our crops and pluck our chickens. Millions of jobs lost to illegal immigrants billions taken out of our economy every year, sent back to homelands.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Your plucked chicken cost you 16.50 an hour and is union now. The hand picked stuff I but at the farmers market cost a lot more than the stuff John Deere picks fore me.


In North Carolina they imported Hattians to pluck chickens.

*4 poultry plant execs indicted after 2019 immigration raid*
Four executives from two Mississippi poultry processing plants have been indicted on federal charges tied to one of the largest workplace immigration raids in the U.S. in the past decade
By EMILY WAGSTER PETTUS Associated Press
August 6, 2020, 5:19 PM


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Yours is the naïve thinking. Everyone thinks all these companies are hiring cheap labor. That's what your told and you believe it. Truth is that doesn't happen that much these days.
> 
> Illegals come over and start their own business. Then, you hire them to build your house or re-tile the bathroom. Then, you get on your computer and gripe about the evil business people.
> 
> Get into the new century and do a bit more research.


You are dead wrong


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> No reason for Americans not to harvest our crops and pluck our chickens. Millions of jobs lost to illegal immigrants billions taken out of our economy every year, sent back to homelands.


I agree, except it ain't happening


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> I agree, except it ain't happening


Too many free rides.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Hubby was working at a place that was raided for hiring illegals. ICE came in, rounded up a bunch of Russians, took them off the property, cited the business. A few days later the Russians were back at work with new names and social security numbers.

Was it a paperwork issue? Were they Russian spies trying to learn company secrets? Did they really sneak across the border? No one except those involved really knew. Those involved were very tight-lipped about the episode.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Even a lot of legal immigrants send loads of money to their homeland. Wages are better here, real estate is cheaper wherever home is, the cost of living is cheaper in the homeland. The immigrants come here, work hard to earn money to buy a nice retirement villa, work hard to save for their golden years and often work as much extra time as they can get. Once they get to retirement age, they sell off their holdings in the US, return to the homeland and live a very comfortable retired life. 

That applies only to immigrants from countries where there isn't a lot of civil strife. I never heard a Somalian or Iraqi talk about "going home" after retirement. Those immigrants might go home to visit but they don't want to live there.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Evons hubby said:


> Too many free rides.


Imagine if you rode the bus to work each morning. You had to transfer, catch a second bus, pay for tickets, ride with the riff raff, etc.
If an acquaintance offered to pick you up everyday @ 7:30 am and take you straight to work, just because it was on their way, for free maybe even have an extra coffee, you would probably say "Heck yes."
The bus comes by at 7:30 and the acquaintance comes by at 7:30. They do this every morning for a month.
What would you likely do the first time they didn't show up at 7:30?
Catch the bus or wait a little longer?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Many young Americans don't have any work ethic. Why should they work? They get everything handed to them. I once heard a young woman talk about how a job was beneath her. 

Many immigrants, legal or illegal, will work their fingers to the bone just because they have a job and they want to keep that job. They are willing to find a job Americans don't want, do that job well and tell their friends about the great job they have. Their friends need money so they apply at that job and do it well after they are hired. To many immigrants, being fired for poor job performance is a disgrace. To Americans it's because, "the manager was a jerk" or "that place doesn't treat their employees well" or "I didn't mess up as often as they claim I did".


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> You are dead wrong


Let's say I am dead wrong. Why do you think a company would hire cheap labor? Company's will make money no matter what. No matter the cost of labor or goods as long as there is a market. 

It's still comes down to you and me when we buy that cheaper priced chicken instead of that high priced one. 

Pilgrim's Pride starts at 16.50 hour. Doesn't matter if your legal or illegal. They just need workers so we can eat.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

There are many different issues that contribute to this problem. Economic, social, and the "P" word. 
Here is what we need to do:
Anyone who knowingly hires an illegal should face harsh fines, I mean crippling fines. That goes for businesses and individuals. 
If they come seeking asylum they are to stay outside our country until their case is evaluated. 
Any parent, who sends their children, alone, to our doorstep, forever loses the opportunity to come here. 
Said children should be sent back to their countries of origin if it is safe to do so. 
Any non-citizen found breaking our laws, is expelled forever. 
People who come here legally and follow our laws are always given priority. 
Human traffickers are deemed enemy combatants and killed on sight.
Able bodied Americans shall not receive any type of government assistance if it is found that they refuse to do any legal job that they are qualified to do. 

I think that will do for a start.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Yours is the naive thinking. Everyone thinks all these companies are hiring cheap labor. That's what your told and you believe it. Truth is that doesn't happen that much these days.
> 
> Illegals come over and start their own business. Then, you hire them to build your house or re-tile the bathroom. Then, you get on your computer and gripe about the evil business people.
> 
> Get into the new century and do a bit more research.


Vegetable farms, vegetable processing plants, milking dairies, meat slaughtering plants all use extensive labor from south of the border.

if you have canned or frozen veggies, milk or dairy products in your house, it was overwhelmingly handled by labor from south of the border, and a fair percentage of that was illegal labor. The current mess of paperwork for allowing legal visas for immagrent labor is terrible, it favorscompanies to bypass those complicated ways and just hire anyone walking in the door.

Covid showed us very graphically how many illegals work in the meat plants. Uphere in Iowa and Minnesota and South Dakota. The dairy industry is lobbying hard for more visas and easier availability of them for working on dairy farms. Pretty clear the current goodly percent of illegals doing so now. Again up here in Minnesota.

you have it all backwards in my regional area. Perhaps you are right in your own back yard, and we can both be right, but just pointing out it is not how you say ‘here.’

paul


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> No reason for Americans not to harvest our crops and pluck our chickens. Millions of jobs lost to illegal immigrants billions taken out of our economy every year, sent back to homelands.


me, I totally and completely agree we should end welfare and let our citizens work these jobs. It would be much better!

totally agree.

when these places advertise for help, no one shows up for the jobs. If they do they don’t come back by the third day.

that is a very strong headwinds to fight against.

would love to snap my fingers and make it happen.

but have to be pragmatic as well. We are so far down the rabbit hole, don’t know how we get there from here anymore.

would be at least a positive step to try to stop illegal immigration and create a better system of accessible legal immigration. I really don’t know how anyone could or would be against that; but even that seems very hard to accomplish.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Too bad they don't use prisoners to do menial work nowdays. The labor shortage problem would be solved. 

I can imagine the conversations, "no I'm not going to help you steal a tv from Wal-mart. I don't want to spend 6 months picking peas."

At a family dinner, "hey Bob, didn't you pick green beans for DelMonte while you were in jail last year? You might have picked the beans in this casserole."

Or, "Billy didn't get parole like he hoped. But he helped pick the corn we are having for supper tonight so he is with us in spirit."


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

They pick up the trash along the sides of the road around us. They are mostly juveniles and light duty short timers.
No Strother Martin to walk the ditch and declare a failure to communicate.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> Imagine if you rode the bus to work each morning. You had to transfer, catch a second bus, pay for tickets, ride with the riff raff, etc.
> If an acquaintance offered to pick you up everyday @ 7:30 am and take you straight to work, just because it was on their way, for free maybe even have an extra coffee, you would probably say "Heck yes."
> The bus comes by at 7:30 and the acquaintance comes by at 7:30. They do this every morning for a month.
> What would you likely do the first time they didn't show up at 7:30?
> Catch the bus or wait a little longer?


If I’m broke, I take the bus.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Alright then, change the coffee to Bourbon and the destination to "Gents Only".


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> Too bad they don't use prisoners to do menial work nowdays. The labor shortage problem would be solved.
> 
> I can imagine the conversations, "no I'm not going to help you steal a tv from Wal-mart. I don't want to spend 6 months picking peas."
> 
> ...


Most, if not all, of those crops are machine harvested. But lots of fruit and other crops are hand picked.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Evons hubby said:


> Most, if not all, of those crops are machine harvested. But lots of fruit and other crops are hand picked.


Since I don't live in an area where food crops are grown I did not know you could use a machine to pick fresh peas or beans. The only corn picking machines I have seen are ones that pick dried corn. I know dried beans and peas are machine harvested.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

rambler said:


> Vegetable farms, vegetable processing plants, milking dairies, meat slaughtering plants all use extensive labor from south of the border.
> 
> if you have canned or frozen veggies, milk or dairy products in your house, it was overwhelmingly handled by labor from south of the border, and a fair percentage of that was illegal labor. The current mess of paperwork for allowing legal visas for immagrent labor is terrible, it favorscompanies to bypass those complicated ways and just hire anyone walking in the door.
> 
> ...


It's the same here but they get paid 16.50 an hour. That was my point. They are not dropping the wage that way here. Instead, they are going into business and dropping prices that way.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Really the bunch that are slipping over the border are the bottom of the barrel . 
A lot of them just get travel visas come here for 3 months and never leave . 
I would place adds for help wanted and I would have people speaking to me in Spanish ? 
How did they even read the paper ? 
Back then if they had a SS number I would give them a try . 
they used a PIN number for a while it happen to look like a ss# one day my accountant called me and told me I had six guys with the same Social Security number. Arrrrrrrrrrrr
they paid taxes and got money back some how . 
around 1998 they stopped getting there tax money back . 
Now they all want 35 bucks an hour? It’s not worth the trouble I still use the same guys from the 80s ronnie raven made them citizens but we are all getting long in the tooth . 
Now I have little white girls working . 👍 they don’t eat so much at lunch .


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## Sebastian C (Jul 23, 2017)

I'm an immigrant in Costa Rica. The only reason I'm able to have my paperwork in order is because I'm relatively priveleged, I generally have enough cash to keep my t's dotted and i's crossed, at least for the important things. I'm very thankful for that. 

People that are leaving difficult economic and social conditions don't have the money to get all their paperwork in order. It costs money.

Generally I think stuff that's only considered "right" or "wrong" based on whether or not you have a piece of paper that gives you permission to do it is a moral non-issue. For example building without permits or growing weed. (I don't grow or smoke weed) if a piece of paper makes it okay how's it going to violate the ten commandments or whatever moral code you believe in? Much less with the basic question of someones innate right to exist somewhere?? 

The richest (or one of the richest) country in the world can afford to help its neighbors out a little more. And if some citizens on the lower rungs thinks it's the immigrants that are taking all their money they gotta take a hard look at Jeff bezos, Bill gates, the Walton family, etc etc to see where all the money is going and start wondering what the heck is going on.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Sebastian C said:


> People that are leaving difficult economic and social conditions don't have the money to get all their paperwork in order. It costs money.


Have you priced a Coyote lately?


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## Sebastian C (Jul 23, 2017)




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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

haypoint said:


> If I wanted to hire a farmhand and received 1000 applications, I'd increase the required qualifications. Would be sweet to find someone that cleans stalls and is a diesel mechanic. I could get fussy if I had so many wanting to work for me. The US imports more immigrants than anyone in the world, about a million a year. But 5 million want to live here legally and 15 million want to be here illegally. For over 100 years, the US only accepted healthy adults that had US citizen sponsors that committed to keep them off the welfare.
> Fewer than 3% of the illegal aliens in the US do farm labor. 35% of illegal aliens are on welfare.
> 
> Canada for the past 100 years required immigrants to posses skills that Canada needed. Currently, Canada requires prgnant women entering Canada to be able to fund their delivery. While, like the US, born in Canada is a Canadian citizen, they avoid "Anchor Baby" by allowing the newborn citizen to return to Canada after they become an adult, but must leave the country with their mother.
> ...


We have similar laws to avoid the "anchor baby" problem. Illegal aliens delivering a child have no legal right to be here. We just don't enforce it.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

My views. 
Legal immigration is fine, illegal immigration is not. 
Stop them at the border and don't let the illegals in. If they have already crossed and are apprehended, take them back to the Mexico side where they came in and turn them loose. 
Let Mexico deal with all of these people.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Not the best film ever made, but an interesting premise and makes you think. A few unexpected twists.









A Day Without a Mexican - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I fully support legal immigration where people make proper applications, go through the screening process and have marketable skills my country needs.

I also believe that immigration should be adjusted according to national unemployment rates. 

We also have a temporary foreign workers program that seems to be abused often and I believe it should also be adjusted to national and regional unemployment rates. 

Because of lockdowns and business failures, we are struggling with incredibly high unemployment in my area but I noticed when I was in town yesterday that the temporary foreign workers that two farms hire are already here. 

I worked for a while at the Western Union office in town and the temporary workers do little for local economy. Their employer is obligated to provide accomodation so they buy groceries and the rest of their cheque is sent home.


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## Sebastian C (Jul 23, 2017)

. Sorry, deleted Inappropriate content of a political nature


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Sebastian C said:


> Even this dude thinks these might be poor people that need our help!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


did you not see the part about this thread not being political?


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## Sebastian C (Jul 23, 2017)

Lisa in WA said:


> did you not see the part about this thread not being political?


Good point, sorry, oops


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Sebastian C said:


> Good point, sorry, oops


Thanks, I appreciate it.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

4.4 billion dollars was just handed out to illegal aliens as part of our government's "Rescue Plan."
Someone who breaks current immigration law gets money, the same money and the same amount as American citizens who may have lost their jobs or businesses over the past year.
If you have a problem with the current law, suggestions are welcome. But skirting the rules because it feels good to help those you believe are suffering is a slap in the face to those, such as my good friends wife, who spent almost 10 years going thru the process before she was granted citizenship status. And btw, her family are wealthy owners of a Coca Cola distributorship in Monterey.


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## Sebastian C (Jul 23, 2017)

GTX63 said:


> First of all Trump isn't the President.
> Do you have an issue with legal immigration or with the prosecution of illegal aliens who game the system?
> Put aside the emotions for a moment and follow the law.
> Do you think smugglers and criminals who charge for bringing illegals over the border are taking advantage of the US?


No, coyotes suck it's true and I don't like that. But nowhere close to all immigrants use coyotes. I know this, I have many good friends that have worked in the states under some level of irregular status. Some used a "liberal interpretation" of their tourist visas, others way overstayed. Others went up without coyotes, and some did. Some got deported, others came back once they made some cash and could get established. I have friends who still have family in the states, some there illegally for years and others got legal somehow eventually. 

In almost no cases are any of these guys lazy dumb or dishonest. They're just doing their thing trying to get ahead a little in this world. Get a little traveling in too. (there is the one guy who spent some time in jail and then got deported after getting caught with two keys of coke but he's a real piece of work here in his hometown too). It's impossible to hold negative views against illegal immigrants after knowing living and working with all these folks for 15 years. 

The only reason coyotes exist is because it's illegal. Same as the drug trade. Legalize all drugs and watch the cartels disappear. No one will consume more or less drugs based on their legality. But the violent black market aspect will disappear. 

Hand out work visas like candy. Show up with a legit passport and a clean police record and come on in, get to work. 

Okay I gotta get to work today can't spend all day being an internet troll...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Sebastian C said:


> No, coyotes suck it's true and I don't like that. But nowhere close to all immigrants use coyotes.


$14,000,000 per day.
Fourteen million.
That is how much Coyotes were pocketing for dropping off illegal aliens into the US in February.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> $14,000,000 per day.
> Fourteen million.
> That is how much Coyotes were pocketing for dropping off illegal aliens into the US in February.


Which enriches the cartels and further degrades the countries in Latin America. As far as I'm concerned most coyotes are sub-human, having seen first hand their actions.


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

It's a tough problem. First off, walls don't stop people. Some walls that failed in their purpose of keeping people in or out:

Berlin Wall
Great Wall of China
Hadrian's Wall
Maginot Line

Any of you willing to shoot kids, ask yourself WWJD?

Have any of you talking about U.S. workers doing agricultural work in fields or packing plants done that work for a living? When you talk about temporary farm workers have you ever tried dealing with the government to bring in H2A farm workers?

So some things I would propose:

Birthright citizenship should be limited to those born in the U.S. to a mother who is a U.S. Citizen or to a mother who is a legal resident. Not to tourists, not to temporary workers and not to those who are here illegally

The process for legal immigration needs to be fixed. We need to do things like make it easy for foreign students who get advanced degrees at U.S. universities to get a green card and then citizenship if they live and work here for 5 years after getting that advanced degree. We should fix the programs for temporary farm workers. Y'all who say American workers can/will fill those jobs, go work in the fields for a year and then come back and tell us your tale. I switched from doing small squares of hay to large rounds because as the years went by, local kids didn't want to sling bales for any price.

We should provide assistance to countries (South and Central America) to address the problems that drive people to migrate here. We can spend the money on assistance there or spend the money on walls, large scale border patrol, prison camps, etc. One approach helps build stable neighbors in our hemisphere. The other is a bottomless pit.

This problem has been created over many decades. It will not be fixed overnight.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Mike in Ohio said:


> It's a tough problem. First off, walls don't stop people. Some walls that failed in their purpose of keeping people in or out:
> 
> Berlin Wall
> Great Wall of China
> ...


We do provide assistance to Latin American countries to the tune of 10+billion dollars.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

I have a small business, 14 staff. Labour work. But skilled- as in some go to trade school and others learn on the job. 
I can never find enough good staff of locals keen on the work and I pay well, benefits and a good work environment. There just aren’t enough people interested in the work. 
So I end up hiring annually 20-40% foreign workers with temp work visas. Some of them are really good and it sucks when their visas run out. 
This week alone I had 2 guys who had applied for permanent residency in Canada be denied! They then can’t legally work and I don’t pay cash, so I lose them. 
I think we should let more people in but overall only if they will be of value.

And be mindful that when the West overthrows or sends eastern (or our Latin neighbours) countries back to the Stone Age we end up with refugees. Refugees are regular folks in hard times- and again often caused by us. Ethically we need to give them a hand.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Has someone suggested shooting kids???


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Wellbuilt said:


> Really the bunch that are slipping over the border are the bottom of the barrel .
> A lot of them just get travel visas come here for 3 months and never leave .
> I would place adds for help wanted and I would have people speaking to me in Spanish ?
> How did they even read the paper ?
> ...


I have hired young ladies in the past. My Yvonne frowned on it.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Mike in Ohio said:


> It's a tough problem. First off, walls don't stop people. Some walls that failed in their purpose of keeping people in or out:
> 
> Berlin Wall
> Great Wall of China
> ...


Walls do work, examples... the Vatican, scotland Yard, Berlin.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

kinderfeld said:


> We have similar laws to avoid the "anchor baby" problem. Illegal aliens delivering a child have no legal right to be here. We just don't enforce it.


I wish that were true. There was a law made that was created to insure that children of slaves, non-citizens would be considered citizens, after the end of the War of Northern Aggression. As odd as it seems, just being born within our boundaries make everyone a citizen. But I agree, we need to recognize in vetro illegal aliens as the criminals they are.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

fireweed farm said:


> I have a small business, 14 staff. Labour work. But skilled- as in some go to trade school and others learn on the job.
> I can never find enough good staff of locals keen on the work and I pay well, benefits and a good work environment. There just aren’t enough people interested in the work.
> So I end up hiring annually 20-40% foreign workers with temp work visas. Some of them are really good and it sucks when their visas run out.
> This week alone I had 2 guys who had applied for permanent residency in Canada be denied! They then can’t legally work and I don’t pay cash, so I lose them.
> ...


I have no problems with employers that need to hire temporary workers but I do have a problem with those that cheat to get them. 

A local farm posts ads, as required but they refuse to accept onsite applications and the ads are submitted annually with a typo in the email address to forward resumes. It's worked well for them for the last decade or so and I don't expect it to change anytime soon. 

A local sod farm claims that while the temporary foreign workers from Mexico somehow learn the skills they need, no Canadian could possibly learn the same skills. I know one woman who has decades of industry experience who sends a resume each year and never gets an interview. 

A local restaurant brings in foreign workers and treats them like crap. They're expected to work 12 - 14 hour days, 7 days a week and they remind them often that if the can't/won't, they'll simply be sent back. 
I believe the temporary foreign workers program can be a benefit but it's worth mentioning that not much of the wages you pay them actually stays in our economy at a time when local businesses need all the help they can get.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Why do you think a company would hire cheap labor?


To increase profit.



mreynolds said:


> Pilgrim's Pride starts at 16.50 hour.


PECO here is $13.30/hour


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Evons hubby said:


> Walls do work, examples... the Vatican, scotland Yard, Berlin.


The one around the White house 😁


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

wr said:


> I have no problems with employers that need to hire temporary workers but I do have a problem with those that cheat to get them.
> 
> A local farm posts ads, as required but they refuse to accept onsite applications and the ads are submitted annually with a typo in the email address to forward resumes. It's worked well for them for the last decade or so and I don't expect it to change anytime soon.
> 
> ...


One local farm here does the same.
I am sure there is a way to contact the labour board to let them know what is happening, as it hurts prospective locals seeking work, and it drives down the wage for everyone else.
I'd recommend calling in the farm and restaurant.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

haypoint said:


> I wish that were true. There was a law made that was created to insure that children of slaves, non-citizens would be considered citizens, after the end of the War of Northern Aggression. As odd as it seems, just being born within our boundaries make everyone a citizen. But I agree, we need to recognize in vetro illegal aliens as the criminals they are.


It is true.
What I'm saying is that the illegal parents of a child born here have no legal right to stay. They can and should be deported. The child can stay or come back at a later date.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

fireweed farm said:


> One local farm here does the same.
> I am sure there is a way to contact the labour board to let them know what is happening, as it hurts prospective locals seeking work, and it drives down the wage for everyone else.
> I'd recommend calling in the farm and restaurant.


The farm has been reported more times that one can count and nothing has been changed. 

The local employees report the restaurant often for labour standards violations, phone calls are made, discussions are had and they always conclude with assurances of the whole thing being a misunderstanding.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Sebastian C said:


> View attachment 94930


That shows a victim mentality. Learn to bake cookies.


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## a7736100 (Jun 4, 2009)

Considering the low sperm count of the a_verage _American male _and _low female fertility, we are lucky that people want to come here. Without new blood we'll be just like Japan a nation of old people.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Is working in a field all day much different than laying shingles all day? I've done field work but never laid shingles. Most roofers here have whole crews who cannot speak English. A lot of migrant workers come here to do field work and roofing.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> Is working in a field all day much different than laying shingles all day? I've done field work but never laid shingles. Most roofers here have whole crews who cannot speak English. A lot of migrant workers come here to do field work and roofing.


Done both. Roofing is much worse.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I liked working in the gardens and fields. I don't think I could do roofing for a living. I have a thing about heights. Shoveling manure for a living would be more fun than roofing, IMO.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I have roofed and I have worked in fields all day.
I'll take field work for a hundred Alex, every day of the week.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> In response to questions to my previous post.
> 
> All immigration should be legal. No illegal immigration should be allowed. I note though that it is legal to enter the country or present yourself at the border and claim asylum. There is a legal process that is required after that and should be followed.
> 
> I also don't think that short-term employment-based immigration should be granted unless it includes a process to gain permanent status and a path to citizenship. If you need to hire from outside the country then you need more workers. Otherwise, it is just slave labor with no rights.


It’s not slave labor if the workers have an actual choice. Comparing them to slaves is dismissive of what real slavery was.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

That term "slave labor" is so overused and not understood. It goes right along with Nazi and Hitler and bla bla bla.
Choosing to climb a fence that says "No Tresspassing" doesn't make you a slave, and as far as I know, no one in the US is loading illegals up in box cars and to their deaths, although some of their travel agents are.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> It’s not slave labor if the workers have an actual choice. Comparing them to slaves is dismissive of what real slavery was.


i just noticed that the member I responded to was banned. 
Never mind.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> i just noticed that the member I responded to was banned.
> Never mind.


I missed that. That is a game changer


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> That term "slave labor" is so overused and not understood. It goes right along with Nazi and Hitler and bla bla bla.
> Choosing to climb a fence that says "No Tresspassing" doesn't make you a slave, and as far as I know, no one in the US is loading illegals up in box cars and to their deaths, although some of their travel agents are.


A friend of mine said they saw where a minor walked from Guatamala in the last 30 days. I tried to tell them no way. Have to have help along the way...


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> i just noticed that the member I responded to was banned.
> Never mind.


Must have just happened. I thought I saw her this morning.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

TripleD said:


> A friend of mine said they saw where a minor walked from Guatamala in the last 30 days. I tried to tell them no way. Have to have help along the way...


Yeah, the kid was like 10 and supposedly walked 1500 miles all by himself.
Didn't happen.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> Yeah, the kid was like 10 and supposedly walked 1500 miles all by himself.
> Didn't happen.


I agree, the donner party spent 5 months getting from St. Louis to the Sierra Nevada’s. Another five months before survivors were rescued.


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

Lisa in WA said:


> i just noticed that the member I responded to was banned.
> Never mind.


Sock puppet repealed


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## Cahama06 (Mar 30, 2021)

i think that without immigration the USA would not exist (in fact i know that it would not). to some amount everyone immigrated here. i think that we as Americans are responsible for alot of the immigration to here, many people are fleeing violence in there own countries. Many places in central and south America have corrupt govt and lots of gangs. Most of the guns that cause this violence in Central and South America can be traced back to America. I dont want to offend anyone here, but I dont know anyone who did not migrate to the US that works in the fields, there are a few foremen but the people driving tractors, working by hand for 8 hrs in summer heat are all immigrants most are illegal. I think that if we want to fix the immigration problem we need to help the countries in Central in South America that people are fleeing from. that does not mean we bomb them (as the US is know to do) but we help rebuild a strong Govt, we get rid of the gangs (I don't think this is ajob for the military but, we could fund the UN or some other organization to go in and help build up peace). I think that there is no one political party to blame for the immigration crisis, democrats and republicans have both done a ****ty job. we really are taking the wrong approach, I dont think any kids should be in cages, I dont think we should spend millions that could go to education to build a wall and get more border patrol. I think it would be cheaper, easier, and more effective to end the problem from the root, we go and rebuild these countries. they all have something to offer.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Cahama06 said:


> i think that without immigration the USA would not exist (in fact i know that it would not). to some amount everyone immigrated here. i think that we as Americans are responsible for alot of the immigration to here, many people are fleeing violence in there own countries. Many places in central and south America have corrupt govt and lots of gangs. Most of the guns that cause this violence in Central and South America can be traced back to America. I dont want to offend anyone here, but I dont know anyone who did not migrate to the US that works in the fields, there are a few foremen but the people driving tractors, working by hand for 8 hrs in summer heat are all immigrants most are illegal. I think that if we want to fix the immigration problem we need to help the countries in Central in South America that people are fleeing from. that does not mean we bomb them (as the US is know to do) but we help rebuild a strong Govt, we get rid of the gangs. I think that there is no one political party to blame for the immigration crisis, democrats and republicans have both done a ****ty job. we really are taking the wrong approach, I dont think any kids should be in cages, I dont think we should spend millions that could go to education to build a wall and get more border patrol. I think it would be cheaper, easier, and more effective to end the problem from the root, we go and rebuild these countries. they all have something to offer.


Prolly need to get the corruption out of our own gov first. As to kids in cages... what should we do with them? Let the slave traders take them? Their country don’t want to be rebuilt! As To farm labor... I spent years working for farmers! Was glad to get the work.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Cahama06 said:


> i think that without immigration the USA would not exist (in fact i know that it would not). to some amount everyone immigrated here. i think that we as Americans are responsible for alot of the immigration to here, many people are fleeing violence in there own countries. Many places in central and south America have corrupt govt and lots of gangs. Most of the guns that cause this violence in Central and South America can be traced back to America. I dont want to offend anyone here, but I dont know anyone who did not migrate to the US that works in the fields, there are a few foremen but the people driving tractors, working by hand for 8 hrs in summer heat are all immigrants most are illegal. I think that if we want to fix the immigration problem we need to help the countries in Central in South America that people are fleeing from. that does not mean we bomb them (as the US is know to do) but we help rebuild a strong Govt, we get rid of the gangs. I think that there is no one political party to blame for the immigration crisis, democrats and republicans have both done a ****ty job. we really are taking the wrong approach, I dont think any kids should be in cages, I dont think we should spend millions that could go to education to build a wall and get more border patrol. I think it would be cheaper, easier, and more effective to end the problem from the root, we go and rebuild these countries. they all have something to offer.


The US sends billions in aid to other countries already, and it isn't fixing their problems. If we try to "interfere" in their governments we are chastised by the entire world. Their governments built and regulate and run their lousy countries, and illegal immigration is our fault? Let's just say we disagree. But maybe you are taking some of the refugees into your house to live with you instead of expecting someone else to support them?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Cahama06 said:


> Many places in central and south America have corrupt govt and lots of gangs. Most of the guns that cause this violence in Central and South America can be traced back to America.


My conscience is clear.

They should stay and fight for what is right, we did, otherwise we'd all be speaking British.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Cahama06 said:


> i think that without immigration the USA would not exist (in fact i know that it would not). to some amount everyone immigrated here. i think that we as Americans are responsible for alot of the immigration to here, many people are fleeing violence in there own countries. Many places in central and south America have corrupt govt and lots of gangs. Most of the guns that cause this violence in Central and South America can be traced back to America. I dont want to offend anyone here, but I dont know anyone who did not migrate to the US that works in the fields, there are a few foremen but the people driving tractors, working by hand for 8 hrs in summer heat are all immigrants most are illegal. I think that if we want to fix the immigration problem we need to help the countries in Central in South America that people are fleeing from. that does not mean we bomb them (as the US is know to do) but we help rebuild a strong Govt, we get rid of the gangs. I think that there is no one political party to blame for the immigration crisis, democrats and republicans have both done a ****ty job. we really are taking the wrong approach, I dont think any kids should be in cages, I dont think we should spend millions that could go to education to build a wall and get more border patrol. I think it would be cheaper, easier, and more effective to end the problem from the root, we go and rebuild these countries. they all have something to offer.


Strange to hear calls for over throwing sovereign nations governments and installing our own brand of government, those actions don't usually end well. Wonder what casualty level would be acceptable? 

The rest of the assumptions brought forward are your opinions and we will have to disagree on them.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Cahama06 said:


> i think that without immigration the USA would not exist (in fact i know that it would not). to some amount everyone immigrated here.


That is an interesting point.
There seem to be many today that point to the original European settlers as invaders, and occupiers; that they stole the land from the Indians.
If the Indians had declared no one was allowed on their shores without their approval would you consider the Pilgrims as criminals?
The Indians also kidnapped, tortured and murdered the Europeans in addition to their own tribal and territorial disputes.
Would that make the Indians insensitive and cold hearted?
I'll speculate that you don't agree with that viewpoint.
How many of those settlers do you believe sent their children only to live in a ships hold for months while sailing across the Atlantic to America?
How many arrived and expected the Indians to provide and care for them?
For the first 200 years, European immigrants arrived and contributed to what our country is today.
They imagined, created, and constructed.
Now that the country is settled, there is only maintaining and sustaining from a labor standpoint. Our homeless live in tent cities, sick, destitute and with little hope for their future.
Yet, illegal immigrants are reinvented as "dreamers" and given health care, housing, food, stimulus checks, driver's licenses, immediate rights and constant publicity.
Charity begins at home first, friend.


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## Cahama06 (Mar 30, 2021)

Thant it true. We don't have a great track record! TBH I did not even think about that. What would you say? Because Mabey it's not the US military that goes in but the UN or something?


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## Cahama06 (Mar 30, 2021)

tho when pilgrims arrived they massacred the natives. Plus I think it would be quite a generalization to say that all natives were bad or all pilgrims were bad. I think that there were definitely Natives that helped the pilgrims and pilgrims that worked with the natives. I think you just need to look at how many pilgrims to natives got killed when the pilgrims showed up. I am not saying that its all black or white I think that there is plenty of in between.


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## Cahama06 (Mar 30, 2021)

That is kinda funny but yea I guess. tho the British did not have automatic weapons, cars, and trucks. they were not able to move around and cut off the food and water to a whole area they just did not have the supplies. I guess what I am saying is you really cannot draw a line from now to then, times have changed.


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## Cahama06 (Mar 30, 2021)

no really said:


> Strange to hear calls for over throwing sovereign nations governments and installing our own brand of government, those actions don't usually end well. Wonder what casualty level would be acceptable?
> 
> The rest of the assumptions brought forward are your opinions and we will have to disagree on them.


Thant it true. We don't have a great track record! TBH I did not even think about that. What would you say? Because Mabey it's not the US military that goes in but the UN or something?


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## Cahama06 (Mar 30, 2021)

GTX63 said:


> That is an interesting point.
> There seem to be many today that point to the original European settlers as invaders, and occupiers; that they stole the land from the Indians.
> If the Indians had declared no one was allowed on their shores without their approval would you consider the Pilgrims as criminals?
> The Indians also kidnapped, tortured and murdered the Europeans in addition to their own tribal and territorial disputes.
> ...


tho when pilgrims arrived they massacred the natives. Plus I think it would be quite a generalization to say that all natives were bad or all pilgrims were bad. I think that there were definitely Natives that helped the pilgrims and pilgrims that worked with the natives. I think you just need to look at how many pilgrims to natives got killed when the pilgrims showed up. I am not saying that its all black or white I think that there is plenty of in between.


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## Cahama06 (Mar 30, 2021)

HDRider said:


> My conscience is clear.
> 
> They should stay and fight for what is right, we did, otherwise we'd all be speaking British.


That is kinda funny but yea I guess. tho the British did not have automatic weapons, cars, and trucks. they were not able to move around and cut off the food and water to a whole area they just did not have the supplies. I guess what I am saying is you really cannot draw a line from now to then, times have changed.


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## Cahama06 (Mar 30, 2021)

todd_xxxx said:


> The US sends billions in aid to other countries already, and it isn't fixing their problems. If we try to "interfere" in their governments we are chastised by the entire world. Their governments built and regulate and run their lousy countries, and illegal immigration is our fault? Let's just say we disagree. But maybe you are taking some of the refugees into your house to live with you instead of expecting someone else to support them?


I'm sorry... I misspoke I meant to say that the UN and other organizations should go in with US funding to settle these areas.


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## Cahama06 (Mar 30, 2021)

Evons hubby said:


> Prolly need to get the corruption out of our own gov first. As to kids in cages... what should we do with them? Let the slave traders take them? Their country don’t want to be rebuilt! As To farm labor... I spent years working for farmers! Was glad to get the work.


yes and mabey there are more people like you who are happy to work those hard jobs. but where our farm is located, its nearly impossible to find field labor. SO everyone relies on immigration. I did not mean we should go into there and fix the countries, but we should fund the UN or someone who wont **** it up to. To add on to that, some of the countries are doing fine and don't need any help but others that have such a high rate of gang violence need the help. The Govt might be corrupt that is why they are not asking. I don't really know what you mean by we having a corrupt Govt, but we have not been doing so well for the past 5 yrs even before that we where not looking great...


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Cahama06 said:


> i think that without immigration the USA would not exist (in fact i know that it would not). to some amount everyone immigrated here. i think that we as Americans are responsible for alot of the immigration to here, many people are fleeing violence in there own countries. Many places in central and south America have corrupt govt and lots of gangs. Most of the guns that cause this violence in Central and South America can be traced back to America. I dont want to offend anyone here, but I dont know anyone who did not migrate to the US that works in the fields, there are a few foremen but the people driving tractors, working by hand for 8 hrs in summer heat are all immigrants most are illegal. I think that if we want to fix the immigration problem we need to help the countries in Central in South America that people are fleeing from. that does not mean we bomb them (as the US is know to do) but we help rebuild a strong Govt, we get rid of the gangs (I don't think this is ajob for the military but, we could fund the UN or some other organization to go in and help build up peace). I think that there is no one political party to blame for the immigration crisis, democrats and republicans have both done a ****ty job. we really are taking the wrong approach, I dont think any kids should be in cages, I dont think we should spend millions that could go to education to build a wall and get more border patrol. I think it would be cheaper, easier, and more effective to end the problem from the root, we go and rebuild these countries. they all have something to offer.


I’ll tell you what I think...


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I kinda doubt that Mexico would be on board with that plan but China might they are always on board to acquire new very rich land.  LOL

*PERMANENT AND NON-PERMANENT MEMBERS*
The Council is composed of 15 Members:

Five permanent members: China, France, Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, and the United States, and ten non-permanent members elected for two-year terms by the General Assembly (with end of term year):


Estonia (2021)
India (2022)
Ireland (2022)
Kenya (2022)
Mexico (2022)
Niger (2021)
Norway (2022)
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines (2021)
Tunisia (2021)
Viet Nam (2021)


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## Cahama06 (Mar 30, 2021)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I’ll tell you what I think...


LMFAO


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Cahama06 said:


> or someone who wont **** it up to.


Can't trust the UN either. Send the money to me and I'll take care of it for you.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Cahama06 said:


> yes and mabey there are more people like you who are happy to work those hard jobs. but where our farm is located, its nearly impossible to find field labor. SO everyone relies on immigration. I did not mean we should go into there and fix the countries, but we should fund the UN or someone who wont **** it up to. To add on to that, some of the countries are doing fine and don't need any help but others that have such a high rate of gang violence need the help. The Govt might be corrupt that is why they are not asking. I don't really know what you mean by we having a corrupt Govt, but we have not been doing so well for the past 5 yrs even before that we where not looking great...


If we closed our welfare food stamp and other freebie offices I’m fairly certain you’d have ample supply of field hands more than willing to be exploited.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Waiting for natural consequences seems to be the current strategy. Let all comers in. No screening.

Eventually, the folks who can defend themselves will eliminate any local offenders that are in target range.

Eventually, diseases will spread, and more folks will get sick. 

Eventually, we will have more extensive cardboard condos.

Eventually, there will be some sort of tipping point. I am no longer hopeful that any government entity will accomplish anything useful.

Eventually, this won't be the country we thought it was.

Oh, wait.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Cahama06 said:


> LMFAO


Me too.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Cahama06 said:


> i think that without immigration the USA would not exist (in fact i know that it would not). to some amount everyone immigrated here. i think that we as Americans are responsible for alot of the immigration to here, many people are fleeing violence in there own countries. Many places in central and south America have corrupt govt and lots of gangs. Most of the guns that cause this violence in Central and South America can be traced back to America. I dont want to offend anyone here, but I dont know anyone who did not migrate to the US that works in the fields, there are a few foremen but the people driving tractors, working by hand for 8 hrs in summer heat are all immigrants most are illegal. I think that if we want to fix the immigration problem we need to help the countries in Central in South America that people are fleeing from. that does not mean we bomb them (as the US is know to do) but we help rebuild a strong Govt, we get rid of the gangs (I don't think this is ajob for the military but, we could fund the UN or some other organization to go in and help build up peace). I think that there is no one political party to blame for the immigration crisis, democrats and republicans have both done a ****ty job. we really are taking the wrong approach, I dont think any kids should be in cages, I dont think we should spend millions that could go to education to build a wall and get more border patrol. I think it would be cheaper, easier, and more effective to end the problem from the root, we go and rebuild these countries. they all have something to offer.


I do think that WE CANNOT FIX THE PROBLEMS THEY ARE FLEEING FROM. At least the people in this country do not seem to be willing to stay committed for the long term with such problems to fix them. Lots of track record proving this. I understand their fleeing gangs and dictators and other bad problems. I also understand that as long as they are allowed to come here, the problems their fleeing will not get fixed. They are not motivated to solve the problem as long as they are allowed to come here. Once they understand they have to fix their own problems, then they can be helped. It will not turn out to be pleasant or easy. 

The immigration problem is simple to fix. Close the border. Prosecute those hiring and sheltering the illegal immigrants and they will go elsewhere of their own accord and at their own expense.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Cahama06 said:


> yes and mabey there are more people like you who are happy to work those hard jobs. but where our farm is located, its nearly impossible to find field labor. SO everyone relies on immigration. I did not mean we should go into there and fix the countries, but we should fund the UN or someone who wont **** it up to. To add on to that, some of the countries are doing fine and don't need any help but others that have such a high rate of gang violence need the help. The Govt might be corrupt that is why they are not asking. I don't really know what you mean by we having a corrupt Govt, but we have not been doing so well for the past 5 yrs even before that we where not looking great...


I am self employed in the home construction and repair trades. I have a extremely good idea on how hard it is to find help willing to work manual labor. Have friends dealing with the problem in agricultural trades. I have no doubt that I could find American workers for the trades I need if I could pay them enough. The problem I have though is I am having to compete against illegal workers who will work for less. As long as they are allowed to continue to provide cheap labor to the American homeowner then the problem will continue. As long as the American homeowners continue to hire them the problem will not go away. 
We do not NEED immigration in my part of the USA for the trades I see. What we need is for people to quit hiring cheap illegal help.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I’ll tell you what I think...


And such a person is a finalist .......... scary stuff. Even more scary is one would assume she completed high school.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Redlands Okie said:


> I am self employed in the home construction and repair trades. I have a extremely good idea on how hard it is to find help willing to work manual labor. Have friends dealing with the problem in agricultural trades. I have no doubt that I could find American workers for the trades I need if I could pay them enough. The problem I have though is I am having to compete against illegal workers who will work for less. As long as they are allowed to continue to provide cheap labor to the American homeowner then the problem will continue. As long as the American homeowners continue to hire them the problem will not go away.
> We do not NEED immigration in my part of the USA for the trades I see. What we need is for people to quit hiring cheap illegal help.


100 percent! I've been working on mom's new bathroom remodel. I can't wait to see what a 60x-60 shower looks like... Wheelchair accessible... It's all good on my part except the nephews only want to work on their time line. I've done worse jobs.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Redlands Okie said:


> I am self employed in the home construction and repair trades. I have a extremely good idea on how hard it is to find help willing to work manual labor. Have friends dealing with the problem in agricultural trades. I have no doubt that I could find American workers for the trades I need if I could pay them enough. The problem I have though is I am having to compete against illegal workers who will work for less. As long as they are allowed to continue to provide cheap labor to the American homeowner then the problem will continue. As long as the American homeowners continue to hire them the problem will not go away.
> We do not NEED immigration in my part of the USA for the trades I see. What we need is for people to quit hiring cheap illegal help.


I was called dead wrong for saying the same thing (less eloquently I may add) a few days ago on this same thread I think.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Redlands Okie said:


> What we need is for people to quit hiring cheap illegal help.


While I agree with your whole post, this portion needed repeating. 

It isn't rocket surgery. I don't understand why people don't see it. Thanks for stating it plainly.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Illegal immigration benefits the people in high places, that is why nothing is done about it.




> *High Immigrant Welfare Use*
> 
> The immigrants currently being admitted into the U.S. are less skilled and less educated than the native population, which means they are more likely to inhabit lower income brackets and require public assistance. In 2017, the share of foreign-born individuals (14.5 percent) and non-citizens (18.6 percent) living below the poverty line is much higher than the share of native-born Americans living in poverty – 11.9 percent, according to U.S. Census Bureau data.
> 
> ...





> *Emergency Medical Services*
> 
> Emergency medical services are guaranteed by the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (1986) and require hospitals to provide emergency care regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay.1 The main reason of cost is why American citizens would not want to provide healthcare for illegal immigrants.
> 
> ...





> Ever wonder why liberal bastions like San Francisco and Los Angeles are being overrun with a homeless epidemic that has established third-world conditions in the streets?
> 
> 
> The filth, human feces, public urination, dirty needles, and general tent city conditions that encompass the most wealthy elitist homes is ignored by the rich do-gooders who claim that so-called asylum seekers deserve to come to the U.S. illegally and the American people must support them.
> ...





> *Illegal Immigration Harms America’s Economy & US Workers*
> 
> The left and the neocons screech at the same pitch when it comes to illegal immigration—they both love it.
> 
> ...


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Nothing wrong with some Snuggles on the job . 
My little sweet hart dosent smell like stale beer and smokes in the morning . 
she just works like a little bunny all day😊 she is one of my daughters 👍 so wifey dosent mind


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

nchobbyfarm said:


> While I agree with your whole post, this portion needed repeating.
> 
> It isn't rocket surgery. I don't understand why people don't see it. Thanks for stating it plainly.


I’m sure everyone is eager to pay twice as much for the same job.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

lost a job to a band of illegals yesterday *** they where hacking u my job to be ? 
They guy wanted his job done ASAP
Emmm bad idea hiring a contractor that has nothing to do and can start to day 🤷‍♂️


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Wellbuilt said:


> lost a job to a band of illegals yesterday *** they where hacking u my job to be ?
> They guy wanted his job done ASAP
> Emmm bad idea hiring a contractor that has nothing to do and can start to day 🤷‍♂️


Yep, I’d never want to get the job done in a timely manner.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

If a contractor isn't busy that usually a sign.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

Even the less busy guys around here are weeks out, at a minimum. And even then it is hit or miss as material schedules are all over the board.

A simple door install can be 10 weeks out.

Ask me how I know...

Anyone who says they can start and get done quickly right now, is probably lying.

Depending on the job of course.

Finding help isn't going to happen. Everyone is sitting collecting extra unemployment and stimulus checks, and getting rent forgiveness.

Why work.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> Without becoming political, can you share what your views are on this?
> Seems like some folks want the borders completely open and some want them closed. What should we do about unaccompanied minors, and caravans from Central America?
> im not exactly sure what my opinion is yet. I certainly don’t think the borders should be open, but I dont necessarily think people should be seeking refugee status here when they’ve already been offered it in Mexico. The unaccompanied minor issue is tough.


My opinion, which surprises many people is that a country has to control it's borders and who comes into their country. I do agree unaccompanied minors is troubling and I have no answer to that.
Refugee question, I disagree, but your country, your decision. and I don't mean that snarkly.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

no really said:


> Canada's immigration qualifications seem logical.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey do not encourage it. 

Seriously, immigrant doctors keep our health system going in small northern communities.
In my years my doctors have been immigrants from South Africa (3 times), another African nation, a Caribbean nation, Iran, and now a new one I see today with a Mid East name and accent.

Most have been fine doctors, but those are the immigrants we really encourage.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

keenataz said:


> Hey do not encourage it.
> 
> Seriously, immigrant doctors keep our health system going in small northern communities.
> In my years my doctors have been immigrants from South Africa (3 times), another African nation, a Caribbean nation, Iran, and now a new one I see today with a Mid East name and accent.
> ...


Most of my doctors have been immigrants here. My pharmacist is named Patel, Dad's cardiologist is named Patel and a friends cardiac surgeon is a Patel, nearly forgot my acupuncturist he's from Taiwan. We welcome those that bring needed skills and the ability to support themselves.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> If we closed our welfare food stamp and other freebie offices I’m fairly certain you’d have ample supply of field hands more than willing to be exploited.


Hunger is a great motivator. 




Evons hubby said:


> I’m sure everyone is eager to pay twice as much for the same job.


Why would they have to pay double? Don't you think some of those "field hands" you mentioned above would do the jobs the illegals are doing? At a reasonable price also.

You can't have it both ways.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> Most of my doctors have been immigrants here. My pharmacist is named Patel, Dad's cardiologist is named Patel and a friends cardiac surgeon is a Patel, nearly forgot my acupuncturist he's from Taiwan. We welcome those that bring needed skills and the ability to support themselves.


My daughters best friend is married to a doctor from Canada, also a Patel. 😊


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> Maybe the caravans can head up there?


Hey let's be friendly


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I think we should just lock down our boarders ?
We have no responsibility to the rest of the world to take them in and take care of them.
We have no responsibility to rebuild their country fix their governments , it just not our problem .
Majority majority of the world hates us.
i think trumps wall is a great move .
Just build the wall and forget to put a door in 👍


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Wellbuilt said:


> I think we should just lock down our boarders ?
> We have no responsibility to the rest of the world to take them in and take care of them.
> We have no responsibility to rebuild their country fix their governments , it just not our problem .
> Majority majority of the world hates us.
> ...


I agree.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You can NOT find anyone else to do the work. Seriously.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Wellbuilt said:


> I think we should just lock down our boarders ?
> We have no responsibility to the rest of the world to take them in and take care of them.
> We have no responsibility to rebuild their country fix their governments , it just not our problem .
> Majority majority of the world hates us.
> ...


Many people think they can destroy America by allowing free flow into the country.


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

I think we should direct all of the caravans to the estate of George Soros and let them squat on his property.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Hunger is a great motivator.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because we aren’t closing the freebie offices. The field hands I mentioned won’t work for “reasonable prices” The way things are.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Evons hubby said:


> Because we aren’t closing the* freebie offices*. The field hands I mentioned won’t work for “reasonable prices” The way things are.


Fifty years ago, I worked for a finance company and was transferred to Ft. Pierce Fl. about 1973 to clean up the office.. Migrants made up about 50% of the customers and they picked oranges in Florida, then migrated north to pick apples, blueberries, and other field crops. 
I know of only one Hispanic customer and don't remember his occupation.
We pay people not to work.


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## Sharon’spigs (Mar 8, 2021)

GTX63 said:


> Asylum from what?
> 
> Why should it be legal?
> 
> ...


There are many reasons people seek asylum. It is never straightforward and when it comes to asylum it often masks hidden agendas, both on the side of the government of the receiving country and the asylum seekers themselves.

There are binding international laws that state it is always legal to seek asylum in a country, however you arrive there, and for various reasons people may not always be able to settle in the first country they travel through. Some of these reasons may be religion, language, culture, environmental issues and financial hardship. For example, considering environmental impacts, if the refugees have lost their homes due to annual flooding, and have suffered from drastic food shortages as a result, then, while technically they can apply in the next country that allows settlement, if that country suffers the same flooding it would not be a safe place to stop.

Likewise, if the refugees had any situation that may be replicated they cannot and should not settle until they find a place in which they can genuinely assimilate safely. Also, if they cannot speak the language of one country, but can communicate in the language of another that may also be a consideration as it will mean it is easier for them to find work.

Of course there are other people who use the refuge system to their own advantage, but really good immigration controls and vetting should reduce this and therefore such people should rarely be admitted. Meanwhile we do need to change many of our attitude. We need to care more about others and focus less on ourselves. In many instances people are harsh on those desperate enough to try anything for a future that does not include persecution, famine, and crushing poverty. America was founded on the need for freedom from persecution. Surely the same spirit still brings people to your shores, maybe an open heart and a more sympathetic response could help America more than the harsh, sometimes brutal response that has been prevalent more recently.

Love to you all.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Fewer than 3% of the illegal aliens in the US do farm labor. 35% of illegal aliens are on welfare.

They would have to have green cards first before getting on welfare. 

Canada for the past 100 years required immigrants to posses skills that Canada needed. Currently, Canada requires prgnant women entering Canada to be able to fund their delivery. While, like the US, born in Canada is a Canadian citizen, they avoid "Anchor Baby" by allowing the newborn citizen to return to Canada after they become an adult, but must leave the country with their mother.

Canada's immigration laws are far stricter than America's.

I actually know quite a few illegals from Mexico who came here to Kansas simply because in their home country, they would've been shot and abused for being disabled (deaf) and they knew America would take care of disabled citizens. They all started by working in restaurants and local schools (they do not ask for immigration cards or anything) and once they got jobs and started to become settled, I know one of them got married to an American woman...he had to pay $30k to become legal and it took him 5 long years and for 1 year he and his American wife/newborn son had to move back to Mexico for 1 year to "prove" to the American government that they were indeed in love and didn't marry for legal citizenship. They lived in a poor area of town for 16 years before finally saving up enough money to be able to buy a house in the affordable section of town and they're all happy and doing well. There are tons of illegal and legal migrants working at the slaughter plants because nobody wants to work there and those places in town tend to pay well. The ones out by Dodge City pays ok. Not great but ok wages. You'll get severe carpal tunnel syndrome working there before long. The locals know this and avoid those jobs like the plague. The other illegals that I know of was a deaf woman whose husband somehow got fake Green Cards and moved his whole family to Kansas. Now from what I heard, she's divorced her husband and gotten real Green cards for her family The reason I know about them is because I'm deaf myself and Deaf people tend to get together and talk. We share a common language.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

TedH71 said:


> Fewer than 3% of the illegal aliens in the US do farm labor. 35% of illegal aliens are on welfare.
> 
> They would have to have green cards first before getting on welfare.


I disagree with that statement. While it technically is illegal for illegal immigrants to receive welfare and all the other freebies the US gives out, it is also illegal for welfare workers to ask the immigration status of applicants. Even if a welfare applicant cannot speak ANY English, the govt worker helping them fill out application forms is not allowed to ask any questions regarding citizenship. When an "anchor baby" is born, the whole family is eligible for federal aid.

Here is an older article with data on who is receiving different types of assistance programs









63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs


In 2014, 63% of households headed by a non-citizen reported that they used at least one welfare program, compared to 35 percent of native-headed households.




cis.org


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Legal immigration is fine. Especially if they have skills or trades that are needed here. Warm bodies we already have. 

As i read through this thread I get so tired of reading “no one else will work this job“ or “can not find anyone else.” I hear the same thing in real life. 

As I grew up, most on one side of the family were farmers, they did the work, not illegals and still do. It was long hours and often times physically risky. The other side were in the oil field trades. Not one single person made it to retirement age without physical dismemberment or other serious wear and tear. Hard dangerous work but they all took to it because of the MONEY. Personally for me it was oil field early in life and its been construction work since. 

Now a days many in those trades are many if not mostly illegals, because the money is lacking and so no incentive to do the work. It’s just that simple. If the pay is there, the people will show up to do the work. 

As long as so called concerned citizens keep hiring illegal help at low wages its going to continue. These people think they are saving money, in the long run it usually not true. Certainly not if they look at the big picture, taxes, welfare, the good of the community they live in. Thankfully I have a customer base that mostly understands the idea.

The wide spread illegal immigration we have been dealing with is not to the benefit of this country, its to the benefit of some wallets and votes it seems.


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