# Very weird!



## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

I have a toshiba Qosmio f-15 that is almost three years old, on it's second hard drive which is a year old, same manufacturer.

Started getting a stop error that a driver was trying to write to read only memory, and within a week (the time it took for me to figure out what was going wrong) my laptop stopped being able to boot to windows (WinXP service pak 2 and MCE). It only came up in safe mode, in which I could not install a new driver! I lost my system restore points unknowingly by doing some tests from Microsoft.com :flame: and that's what kept the system going as long as it did.

Since it's backed up OK I used the Toshiba recovery CDs that came with the laptop to do a system recovery. I get through the cds and at the screen "Please wait while windows prepares to start" the computer locks up. After a hard boot I get the SAME STOP ERROR as before, and now I can't even get into safe mode.

I did the recovery cds a few more times, same result.

I did a "format" to wipe the HD with windows tools, I still get the same stop error after using the recovery cd.

FYI, I did a complete system recovery with these same CDs last July, haven't used them for any reason since. This current problem has been going on for a couple of weeks tops.

I ran Kaspersky antivirus and there isn't anything on this HD it can see. My laptop is wireless and networks with THIS desktop I'm on now, which thanks to my kid has thousands of Trojans and worms. 

Should I use a utility to just completely erase the HD, like used in donated computers? Do I have something that is persisting on the HD in spite of multiple recoveries? Or is this one year old HD going kaput?

Any suggestions will help


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Sounds like a bad HD. Format, fdisk isnt going to fix a bad disk


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

Thank Gary ((ugh)) is there a utility that could "quarantine" the bad areas? I've killed a few HDs in my life, and usually they don't respond at all. I was hoping there was still "time" left on this one to save it, but if not, I'll be glad to know that too.


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Idahoe said:


> I have a toshiba Qosmio f-15 that is almost three years old, on it's second hard drive which is a year old, same manufacturer.


Drives should last a lot longer than that. Next time you buy one, do a web search on the model number to see if there are any user reviews that will tip you off to a problematic model.



> I did a "format" to wipe the HD with windows tools, I still get the same stop error after using the recovery cd.


I'd go one step lower than that, and delete the partition to completely eliminate any chance that it's a software problem, before writing off the drive. A normal XP install gives you a chance to do that, but I don't know if your restore disk does. If you can get your hands on a Linux live CD, you could do it with that, and you could also look at the SMART info and run the drive's self tests, to see what the problem is.



> is there a utility that could "quarantine" the bad areas?


The drive does that itself, if bad sectors are the problem. But bad sectors are fairly unusual even on drives much older than yours. This is another thing you can look at if you can get to the SMART info.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

The drive is toast. Even if you get the drive to work, it will fail again in short order - not worth the time or hassle.

Two drives failed in three years - one drive lasting two years and the next lasting only one year - makes ya wonder if perhaps the drives are overheating. 

The good news is that many drives have a 3-year warranty, so perhaps Toshiba will replace it - or is the second drive a warranty replacement?

Most hard drives will last 4+ years - although every once in awhile, you do get drives which fail early.


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

backwoodsman7 said:


> Drives should last a lot longer than that. Next time you buy one, do a web search on the model number to see if there are any user reviews that will tip you off to a problematic model.
> 
> 
> I'd go one step lower than that, and delete the partition to completely eliminate any chance that it's a software problem, before writing off the drive. A normal XP install gives you a chance to do that, but I don't know if your restore disk does. If you can get your hands on a Linux live CD, you could do it with that, and you could also look at the SMART info and run the drive's self tests, to see what the problem is.
> ...


Thanks . . . looks like I can download a Linux LiveCD for free, but it is 700mb, and I can only download 275mb per day without violating the fair access whatever for my satellite plan. Can I download in "installments", like stop the download part way through, and start it again the next day? Will Windows save the partial download and "complete" it once I get it all downloaded??

I'm gonna try this one last thing before I declare the HDD toast 

Ontarioman, I agree and am VERY frustrated about the short live HDDs I've had with this machine. I don't download music or videos or engage in other hi risk downloading behavior. This current HDD is a Toshiba I ordered on line with a 6 month limited warranty :flame: .

I will certainly check consumer reviews from now on.

I really appreciate all the feedback and advice! I am not able to afford another HDD at least right now, so in true homesteading style I'm going to do what I can until I can't do no more.


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Idahoe said:


> Thanks . . . looks like I can download a Linux LiveCD for free, but it is 700mb, and I can only download 275mb per day without violating the fair access whatever for my satellite plan. Can I download in "installments", like stop the download part way through, and start it again the next day? Will Windows save the partial download and "complete" it once I get it all downloaded??


You can get download managers that'll do that, but it depends on the capabilities of the server you're downloading from. The best way to do it is to use BitTorrent. You can limit the download speed, and/or stop & start it whenever you like until you have it all.

Most Linux live CD's will do what you want to do, but I'd recommend PCLinuxOS. Should you want to install Linux at some point, it's your best choice. You can get the torrent here:
http://linuxtracker.org/torrents-details.php?id=4143

If you need BitTorrent, you can get the Windows version here:
http://www.bittorrent.com/download


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

Ah, so that's what BitTorrent is . . . OK, thanks for the links, the BT will be useful for lots of downloading needs.

Now I did download and install a utility called HD Tune 2.54 that has S.M.A.R.T. as a component, and did a surface scan of the HDD for errors, and there were ZERO errors. Wouldn't errors show up if the disk was going bad?


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Idahoe said:


> Now I did download and install a utility called HD Tune 2.54 that has S.M.A.R.T. as a component, and did a surface scan of the HDD for errors, and there were ZERO errors. Wouldn't errors show up if the disk was going bad?


I was under the impression you couldn't get Windows installed? If it's working, HD Tune will tell you if there are any problems with the drive.

Drives rarely die because of surface errors. It's almost always an electronic or mechanical problem.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

I've run into your problem a few times with different PCs - and researched it a bit (cannot remember the exact tech. description of the problem). I think you'll find that the surface scan may not show any errors - but still lots of blue screens, system wont boot, lockups at the same exact point, can't login, etc. etc. The errors appear to be related to writing to the drive and not with the actual surface. 

As I mentioned earlier - you may get it to work - but usually it is temporary and the errors return. The good news with this type of failure is that you can usually retrieve data off the drive before it permanently fails - ghosting to a new drive also works fairly well with this type of failure - perhaps because the ghost source is only read and not written to.

Again, its been awhile so I may be off a bit.



Idahoe said:


> Ah, so that's what BitTorrent is . . . OK, thanks for the links, the BT will be useful for lots of downloading needs.
> 
> Now I did download and install a utility called HD Tune 2.54 that has S.M.A.R.T. as a component, and did a surface scan of the HDD for errors, and there were ZERO errors. Wouldn't errors show up if the disk was going bad?


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

backwoodsman7 said:


> I was under the impression you couldn't get Windows installed? If it's working, HD Tune will tell you if there are any problems with the drive.
> 
> Drives rarely die because of surface errors. It's almost always an electronic or mechanical problem.


Correct, I wasn't able to get Windows reinstalled with the factory recovery CD. It would get through the CDs, reboot, and go into "Please wait while windows prepares to start", where it would then freeze and the screen would go blank. 

HD Tune "said" the HD was just fine. My previous HDD had corrupted sectors that got picked up on right away with some basic Windows tools.

When you say electronic or mechanical problems, do you mean with the motherboard or some connection coming "loose" inside? Thanks for being patient with me 

BTW I downloaded KillDisk, a bootable DOS program that rewrites over the HDD with zeros. Its free version only makes one pass, but I manually redid it three times to get it nice and "blank". Later today I'll try the CD recovery discs again and I'll post the results.


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

OntarioMan said:


> I've run into your problem a few times with different PCs - and researched it a bit (cannot remember the exact tech. description of the problem). I think you'll find that the surface scan may not show any errors - but still lots of blue screens, system wont boot, lockups at the same exact point, can't login, etc. etc. The errors appear to be related to writing to the drive and not with the actual surface.
> 
> As I mentioned earlier - you may get it to work - but usually it is temporary and the errors return. The good news with this type of failure is that you can usually retrieve data off the drive before it permanently fails - ghosting to a new drive also works fairly well with this type of failure - perhaps because the ghost source is only read and not written to.
> 
> Again, its been awhile so I may be off a bit.


Retrieving the data won't be possible now that I used KillDisk , but I had most everything important backed up TG.

The original stop error was "caused" per the blue screen by w29n51.sys, the driver for the wireless connection. The exact wording was "An attempt was made to write to read-only memory" and the culprit was the above driver. Like I said before, I could only get Windows up in safe mode, which prevented me from repairing or installing an updated driver.

I hear ya that the HDD is probably toast. I'm learning a lot, and in an area where if my computer is broke, I better figure out how to fix it myself. Even if it is toast, I've sure learned some good stuff from the feed back given. I appreciate it very much!


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Some error messages can be misleading, and cannot always be taken literally. Although that wireless driver may have been doing its thing when the error occurred, it may not actually be the "cause" of the problem. If the drive is bad, and the driver is attempting to write to the drive - the message may indicate that the wireless driver was the cause. Even if you could replace the wireless driver, it may just shift the error to some other driver which loads or some other process which attempts to use the drive.

With many of the Windows error messages, there should be a "funky" error code - use google to research the code.

Utitilies like "IBM/Toshiba Drive Fitness" (available on the net) are great as well - they create a boot floppy which tests the drives, meaning that a working operating system is not even required.

Obviously we cannot say for certain what the problem with your system is - and there is the possibility that it could be any number of things. Definately keep plugging away, you'll certainly gain a wealth of knowledge.



Idahoe said:


> The original stop error was "caused" per the blue screen by w29n51.sys, the driver for the wireless connection. The exact wording was "An attempt was made to write to read-only memory" and the culprit was the above driver. Like I said before, I could only get Windows up in safe mode, which prevented me from repairing or installing an updated driver.


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## jross (Sep 3, 2006)

Could weak power supplies cause drive failures? Seem some here have more drive failures in shorter times than is normal. I know many computers come with power supplies that barely cover the stuff that comes with the computer and adding more load just drops voltages enough to cause premature failures?


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## backwoodsman7 (Mar 22, 2007)

Idahoe said:


> When you say electronic or mechanical problems, do you mean with the motherboard or some connection coming "loose" inside?


No, I mean problems with the drive's circuit board, or head positioning mechanism.



> BTW I downloaded KillDisk, a bootable DOS program that rewrites over the HDD with zeros. Its free version only makes one pass, but I manually redid it three times to get it nice and "blank". Later today I'll try the CD recovery discs again and I'll post the results.


Any results on this yet?


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## Stann (Jan 2, 2005)

A blue screen error is quite explicit. It mentioned that a fatal error occurred by the "w29n51.sys" driver's execution of a write statement into a read-only area. That action caused an immediate abort. So, it seems that the driver is a problem.

Is your O/S installation a clean, fresh installation ie. as if there were no former software ever on that computer (not some type of incremental or recovery installation)? It seems that there is some incompatibility between your "wireless" driver and the O/S.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Wonky power supplies can cause all sorts of wacky errors and cause damage. Overvoltage could damage memory, undervoltage can damage hard drives. Most folks think of catestrophic power supply failure (no power), but some supplies deteriorate over time. I've seen computers repeatidly fail memory tests with one power supply, and then repeatidly pass the same tests with a different power supply - yet both supplies appeared to be working (obviously one was not working correctly). 



jross said:


> Could weak power supplies cause drive failures? Seem some here have more drive failures in shorter times than is normal. I know many computers come with power supplies that barely cover the stuff that comes with the computer and adding more load just drops voltages enough to cause premature failures?


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