# Sad face :-( is my soup ok UDSA vs. Ball guidelines



## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

Hi, Last night I made 5 quarts of chicken soup in my pressure canner. I followed the 2009 USDA guidelines at:

http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_04/soups.html

Also listed on page 4-18 - 4-19 of the Complete Guide to Home Canning book of 2009.

It did not give a specific "recipe" so I followed the instructions - I cooked the chicken and removed the bones, cooked some onions, celery , carrots added salt, pepper, bay leaf ( which I later removed prior to canning) and combined all -boiled for 5-10 mins and filled into hot jars etc.

I ended up using about 2-3 cups if chicken, about 3 cups of carrots, 1-1/2 cup of onions, 1-1/2 cups celery

Here is the problem: I processed 5 Qts in my pressure canner at 10 psi due to my altitude for 75 mins. All went well and the jars sealed. The issue is the next day I was looking at recipes in the Ball Complete canning book and they say to process chicken soup for 90 mins at 10 psi!

So is the chicken soup I processed using the USDA guidelines safe to eat? I'm am really bummed out by the different processing times
.:-(

Thank you for your help!

Shelly


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

All I reference here is the USDA chart. It's printed out and in the kitchen someplace.

I get a lot of it here.
http://www1.extension.umn.edu/food/food-safety/Preserving/canning/

Anywho....

You did 75 minutes..That's the time for pints on my charts. 90 minutes is the time for quarts on it.

I guess I wouldn't get too nervous about it. If it really bothers you, pop them and redo them.


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## AdmiralD7S (Nov 1, 2013)

I wouldn't eat it. Either toss them out or reprocess them for the proper duration.

You want the food inside to reach a certain temperature for so many minutes, but keep in mind that the entire jar isn't the same temperature all at once. The heat comes in from the outside of the jars, so the outside "layers" of food inside the jar act as insulation for the very center of the jar. You need the full time so that the heat can propagate to the center and destroy all the botulism spores there.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2013)

If you processed it in quart jars then its not safe to eat!

If you processed it in pint jars your fine.


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

I trust the USDA guidelines. But you have to decide on your comfort level. I wonder if it's a shorter time than say chili or just meat due to soup being more liquid. It specifically says poultry at the top and says to process longer if it contains seafood.

I have seen other state guidelines that call for 75 minute processing for some recipes that contain meat. My rule of thumb is 75 minutes for pints, 90 for quarts if there's meat or beans. But I haven't canned soup in a broth.


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## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

farmerj said:


> All I reference here is the USDA chart. It's printed out and in the kitchen someplace.
> 
> I get a lot of it here.
> http://www1.extension.umn.edu/food/food-safety/Preserving/canning/
> ...


Hi FarmerJ,

Thank you for your help and that great link! I will print that chart off to keep in my canning binder. I think I'll just reprocess them- not sure what it will take like, probably mush ;-) but this will be a good learning experience.


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## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

Thank you AdmiralD7S! I will reprocess it. If it turns to mush at least this will be a good learning experience and it was only 5 qts!

Shelly


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## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

Hi mythreesons, Thank you ! I am going to reprocess it. :yuck: I bet it will be mushy but rather be safe.


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## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

Hi Vosey, you know when I saw that 75 mins I did a double take thinking that can't be right! I should have followed my mind:smack. I will reprocess since this will be a good learning experience to see how it tastes afterwards. Hopefully I won't make this mistake again. I'm too paranoid to eat it. The first time I ate my home canned meat - even thought I did the 10 min boil first, was still scared :run: wondering if one tiny spore of you know what ;-) survived! Glad it was only 5 qts and mainly inexpensive vegetables.


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## Vosey (Dec 8, 2012)

When you go to eat your reprocessed soup, jazz it up with some fresh celery, parsley and pasta or tortellinis or something of that sort, then it won't seem so mushy!


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## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

Vosey said:


> When you go to eat your reprocessed soup, jazz it up with some fresh celery, parsley and pasta or tortellinis or something of that sort, then it won't seem so mushy!


Thanks Vosey! I'm eating some of my reprocessed soup now. The funny thing is the chicken now looks and sorta taste like beef! Must be from the carrots. But all in all it's ok. I plan to start canning a lot of soup!


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## PackerBacker (Jul 17, 2013)

Soup= 75 minutes.

Meat= 90 minutes.

http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_04/soups.html

I trust the USDA/UGA. Ball has proven itself incompetent IMO


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## PackerBacker (Jul 17, 2013)

mythreesons said:


> If you processed it in quart jars then its not safe to eat!.


:umno: Based on what?


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2013)

PackerBacker said:


> :umno: Based on what?



I should of been more specific sorry..I should of said 90-minutes for Quart jars..


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2013)

PackerBacker said:


> Soup= 75 minutes.
> 
> Meat= 90 minutes.
> 
> ...


I PC quarts for 90-minutes and 75-minutes for Pints...I'm no expert but I do have experience..I wouldn't trust what you posted ...Sorry!


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## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

PackerBacker said:


> Soup= 75 minutes.
> 
> Meat= 90 minutes.
> 
> ...


Thanks PackerBacker! I like the ball book for some recipes but like the USDA for the guidelines and the charts


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## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

PackerBacker said:


> :umno: Based on what?


It's so confusing! I was going to email that director at the USDA -Elizabeth A, but I couldn't find her email LOL. The USDA book was really specific for soups it even had * next to the times to alert people to use 100 mins for seafood.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

If it contains meat then it is 75 minutes for pints & 90 minutes for quarts. You always pressure can for the ingredient that takes the longest time. If it contains meat, then you would use the time for meat. If the soup contains no meat, then you process according to whatever vegetable in your soup has the longest processing time.


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## AdmiralD7S (Nov 1, 2013)

PackerBacker said:


> I trust the USDA/UGA. Ball has proven itself incompetent IMO



I've been canning solo for several years, and I grew up canning with my family. There were recipes i didn't like, and I've found a couple typos throughout the years, but "incompetent" is news to me. Would you be willing to provide your reasoning for your stance?


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## PackerBacker (Jul 17, 2013)

mythreesons said:


> I should of been more specific sorry..I should of said 90-minutes for Quart jars..


I know what you said and what you meant.

Soup in Quarts is 75 minutes.



mythreesons said:


> I PC quarts for 90-minutes and 75-minutes for Pints...I'm no expert but I do have experience..I wouldn't trust what you posted ...Sorry!


YOu don't trust what "I" post or the links I post? 

The link I posted is the gospel when it comes to canning.



Wendy said:


> *If it contains meat then it is 75 minutes for pints & 90 minutes for quarts. You always pressure can for the ingredient that takes the longest time.* If it contains meat, then you would use the time for meat. If the soup contains no meat, then you process according to whatever vegetable in your soup has the longest processing time.


 :umno:

This isn't true.

http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_04/soups.html



AdmiralD7S said:


> I've been canning solo for several years, and I grew up canning with my family. There were recipes i didn't like, and I've found a couple typos throughout the years, but "incompetent" is news to me. Would you be willing to provide your reasoning for your stance?


When they still up to a few years ago stated the jars had to be sterilized before pressure canning I realized the blue book was good for TP only. It's not even that good for that. The pages are to glossy.


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## PackerBacker (Jul 17, 2013)

shellybo said:


> Thanks PackerBacker! I like the ball book for some recipes but like the USDA for the guidelines and the charts


You're welcome.

I'm sorry I wasn't here sooner to point you in the right direction so that you wouldn't of had to reprocess based on the misinformation given within this thread.


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## AdmiralD7S (Nov 1, 2013)

PackerBacker said:


> When they still up to a few years ago stated the jars had to be sterilized before pressure canning I realized the blue book was good for TP only. It's not even that good for that. The pages are to glossy.



Eh, that doesn't bother me. They're covering their backside the same way the Haynes repair manual has you disconnect the battery before replacing the air filter or rotating your tires; they just don't want to be sued because someone deviated and did something obviously stupid


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## AdmiralD7S (Nov 1, 2013)

mythreesons said:


> I PC quarts for 90-minutes and 75-minutes for Pints...I'm no expert but I do have experience..I wouldn't trust what you posted ...Sorry!



Actually, PackerBacker is correct. Soups top out at 75 minutes. This is where we must understand WHY we do certain times. Your default stance of 75 pints/90 quarts is based on chunks of meat, and you need that time for the heat to penetrate the meat so it has a uniform (and high enough) temperature.

In a soup, however, you don't have chunks of meat; you have "tidbits". It doesn't take as long to heat their center, so we don't need the "full" time to safely can (i.e., to kill the botulism spores).

Following the process is when you see someone catch a fish and mimic it. Understanding the process is what happens when they teach you how to fish.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I have chunks of meat in my soups & stews & would rather not take a chance with killing my family over 15 minutes of processing time.


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

Then learn the process.

Process one to 75 minutes and another to 90 minutes and then measure the meat temps. As quickly as possible.

If you are that overly concerned about 15 minutes at the end of your processing time.

I don't let my pressure cooker sit for an hour with the weight off after turning the heat off either. I give it long enough to release the pressure and get to work. If I waited for every minute on every detail I would never complete my tasks I have to do.

My word I'm a darn fool for eating all that food I must be.


And before everyone starts casting stones. You have your own shortcuts you do as well. Consider what it is I just described and then comment.....


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Everyone can do as they wish & take whatever risks they want, but I am in no hurry when I am canning as I do not want to lose any of the food I put up. This is one time when being cautious is a good idea.


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2013)

I agree with you Wendy!


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I follow the Ball Blue Book & that is the info it has for beef stew & chicken SOUP. If you do not, that is your choice, but I have not given any false information.


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## PackerBacker (Jul 17, 2013)

Wendy said:


> I follow the Ball Blue Book & that is the info it has for beef stew & chicken SOUP. If you do not, that is your choice, but I have not given any false information.


Wendy I don't know what else to call the following in light of facts provided here by links posted by myself as well as the OP.



> If it contains meat then it is 75 minutes for pints & 90 minutes for quarts. You always pressure can for the ingredient that takes the longest time. If it contains meat, then you would use the time for meat.


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## annaraven (Mar 25, 2011)

What I've been told by the canning group I'm on, is if it's over 50% solids or large chunks of meat, can it at the longer "meat" time. If it's less than 50% solids and no meat or only small bits of meat, you can use the "soup" times.


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