# Question: how to get a level foundation



## Applegrass (Jul 10, 2014)

Speaking of log cabins.. I wonder how the pioneers got their foundations level without a level tool.
Do you think they just eyeballed it and hoped for the best? Did they even have a foundation? There's an old fallen down log cabin up in the hills that i go to all the time..... the logs were set upon large rocks. 

Does anyone know of a source i can go to on the internet to read about how to put up a log cabin? A simple cabin. Jeremiah Johnson style most likely cuz i don't have the time or the money to get all fancy. 

~clementine in idaho


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Judging from some of the houses around here, some folks STILL don't know how to have a level house. 

Dig a trench, fill with water, you have a level. Use a plumb bob and a square and you have a level. It isn't rocket science.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Judging from some of the houses around here, some folks STILL don't know how to have a level house.


Amen.....and today they have access to a laser.

Most old timers eyeballed it, or used a line level, or something water based. They were more concerned with decent shelter than plumb, level and square.


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## Applegrass (Jul 10, 2014)

Right now i'm just beginning. which means i'm just trying to get the site fairly level by dumping wheelbarrows of dirt and rocks in the low places. that's good right? Then i'm going to set big flat rocks around the places where the logs will sit. that will work i hope. To get those big rocks as level as possible i was thinking of laying long two by fours from rock to rock and putting a long carpenters level tool on them. So... what do ya think? will that work? I am open and ready to learn. 

how would a plumb bob and square work to get things level??


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

A plumb bob will give you a perfect vertical on the string that holds it. Line one side of a square with it, and since a square is 90 degrees, the other leg of the square will give you perfect level. Extend that to a stake 20' away with a taught length of string. Do the same in the other direction and you have 40' of level.

If you use 2x4s make sure that you don't get them from the bargain bin.  Some can be warped and twisted more than Congress.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Normally you would dig off the sod and loose soil to get the site level and have well packed undisturbed soil to build on. Adding soil, especially with plant matter is not a good base. Set your corners and use a string and the level, or the board, a 20' 2"x4" can have a belly in the center If held at both ends. You need level and square and set corners or batter boards offset a set distance all around....James


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## MushCreek (Jan 7, 2008)

They make small levels that go on a string, which will get you in the ballpark. I used a piece of clear tubing, filled with water to set the ledger boards for our house. I have a laser level, but it isn't strong enough light for outdoors unless you use it at night.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Applegrass said:


> I wonder how the pioneers got their foundations level without a level tool.


They had levels.. They were just a little more crude looking...


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## Skamp (Apr 26, 2014)

You can also make a simple water level with a stick/board/timber. It simply needs two parallel faces and a groove cut longitudinally in one face, fill the groove with water. The longer the groove, and board, the more accurate the level.

You could simply groove the top of your base timbers and do the same. I would recommend that you hew it back smooth after you get them set though.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Applegrass said:


> Right now i'm just beginning. which means i'm just trying to get the site fairly level by dumping wheelbarrows of dirt and rocks in the low places. that's good right?...


Not really. A lot depends on your climate but you should dig down to below frost level or undisturbed soil (whichever is deeper) and build up from there. Building on filled areas will create uneven settling of the building.

WWW


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## NorthwoodsMike (Jun 10, 2013)

MushCreek said:


> They make small levels that go on a string, which will get you in the ballpark. *I used a piece of clear tubing, filled with water *to set the ledger boards for our house. I have a laser level, but it isn't strong enough light for outdoors unless you use it at night.


This. Water levels made from tubing are super accurate, and very inexpensive. There is lots of information on google about using them too.


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## Applegrass (Jul 10, 2014)

Wow. you guys are knowledgeable. Thank you so much for the advice. I'm always flying by the seat of my pants and trying to get a job done as quickly as possible. I'm not a perfectionist that's for sure. but i don't want a cabin that leans or falls down so... i think i'll *rethink* this project. especially the part about filling low places and laying rocks on that new dirt. I joined this forum to get advice on this project. It worked! The advice is invaluable and surely will save me from pulling my hair out later. I'm ever so grateful. Thank you all! 

This is what I built last summer. I'm a girl. . . with no carpenter experience. I didn't know what I was doing.. just knew i needed a shed for firewood. I figured it out as i went along. My son showed up later and pointed out everything I should have done differently.. and yes I'm slightly embarrassed by all the mistakes... 
especially the use of 2 x 4's up there in the rafters. it looks so flimsy! But... I tell people "as long as I keep firewood in it... it can't fall down." :hysterical: P.S. I got all the metal roofing at the local dump. Which is another thing.... Everything I build needs to be very very very INexpensive. I'm trying to live off the land using very little moolah. Anyway... I'm thinking a cabin needs to be put together a little better than that woodshed. I'm glad I asked a question here.. and I appreciate the answers.


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## Applegrass (Jul 10, 2014)

woodshed by Clementine the amazing carpenter.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

NorthwoodsMike said:


> This. Water levels made from tubing are super accurate, and very inexpensive. There is lots of information on google about using them too.


Clear tubing makes it easier to see that you have got all the air out of the tubing but you can use ordinary garden hose which you probably already have. 

Hammer in stakes, one just beyond each end of a wall. Fill the hose with water and make sure you get all the air out. Tie one end to one of the stakes. Hold the other end against the other stake. Add water to fill the hose to the top. Move the hose end up or down and add water until the water fills both ends to the top. The ends of the hose are now level. Mark the stakes where the ends of the hose are. Tie a piece of string or mason's line tautly between the stakes at the marks on the stakes. The string is now level and you can measure down to your foundation and make it level too. 

Leave the hose tied to the stake. Hammer in more stakes just beyond the ends of the other walls and use the hose to repeat marking the level spots. Tie up more mason's line and you will have a perfectly level grid of line to measure from. 

Someone will flame me for not saying use batter boards so to preempt them, go ahead and use batter boards instead of stakes if that is what floats your boat.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

>>>>>>>>>>


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

Hey, your woodshed looks good. Just make sure the fasteners that hold horizontals to posts are up to their job. I have built a lot of buildings with 2"x4"s with 4"x4" treated posts. Many people told me they look flimsy, never had a problem as long as they were braced or sheathed as needed for wind and the rafters hold the snow load. Sheathing, construction adhesives and nails make good joints....James


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## NorthwoodsMike (Jun 10, 2013)

I wouldn't worry too much about the 2x4's for a wood shed. Depending on the species they can span about 5ft in a 50psf snow load area. The metal roof shedding snow helps too.

You can build on areas you have filled, you may want to borrow/rent a "wacker-packer" or a compactor like that. Just avoid building on organic material. Over time, it will decompose leaving a low spot. Ideally, you want to get below the frost line with any foundation, though floating slabs will sometimes work in some soils.


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## carasel (Dec 31, 2009)

For how to build your log cabin. Read the section on log cabins in the first Foxfire book.
Lots of ideas there. It doesn't say how they leveled the piers or footers.


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## FarmerRuss (Jun 19, 2013)

NorthwoodsMike said:


> This. Water levels made from tubing are super accurate, and very inexpensive. There is lots of information on google about using them too.


Is is a link to one I made for about $10.00
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/country-living-forums/homestead-construction/513877-water-level-tool.html


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## Applegrass (Jul 10, 2014)

What?! wowzer. the water level tool is so cool! What a handy dandy little doo dad.


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

Your wood shed looks fine, a little primitive but it works, basic carpentry 101.....


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## logbuilder (Jan 31, 2006)

Here is a thread that might be of some help. It has some pics.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...aredness/448048-building-small-log-cabin.html


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

NorthwoodsMike said:


> This. Water levels made from tubing are super accurate, and very inexpensive. There is lots of information on google about using them too.


They are RELATIVELY accurate, but not super accurate. I've used them. You have to wait for any surging to completely stop (which can take an eternity if you are working with a deadline), and if part of the tubing is in sun and part in shade, the change of density of the water will skew the readings. For something this small, a short one would be fine, but when I verified my runs of 150' there were discrepancies that were a couple of inches in places. Just my experience.


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

It looks like FarmerRuss showed it in his picture but I was only going to add that a little red food coloring in the clear tubing water level sure makes it easier to see where the water level is.

I've used the clear tubing with red water for a homemade manometer, for checking the pressure on my rv's propane system. It works well for that. I would guess that for short runs for checking level, it should work pretty well, too.


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## Applegrass (Jul 10, 2014)

Hey I think i might need a "man-o-meter" Is it kinda like a metal detector? To let me zero in on men? I hope they have the kind that you can adjust. To sort out various types. Red neck Loggers. Swaggering cowboys. Sniveling wienies. Handy men. etc.


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## Applegrass (Jul 10, 2014)

That woodshed is 20 ft. long. 8 ft. wide. and 10 ft high (at the highest point) I'm going to stash a lot of wood in there this year. :viking:


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## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

Applegrass said:


> Hey I think i might need a "man-o-meter" Is it kinda like a metal detector? To let me zero in on men? I hope they have the kind that you can adjust. To sort out various types. Red neck Loggers. Swaggering cowboys. Sniveling wienies. Handy men. etc.


Sorry, Applegrass... the manometer I made doesn't have that feature.  But I'd bet you'd make $$Millions$$ if you could produce such a device as you described.


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## Benny b (Jan 14, 2013)

Water levels are as accurate as you can get! I opened a construction company for 20 years. Used them many times to get around corners to do siding. Just have to have patients and give them a little while to settle. Put a little bit of food coloring in the water . makes it easy to see air bubbles. It doesnt have to be filled clear to the top just enough so you can put marks on both ends then simple math to get what you need.I had a $4000 laser level for sewage,foundation, block and siding work the $10 clear tube water level is every bit as accurate . I guarantee it. Don't hesitate at all to use it. Benny


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## bryant (Aug 8, 2014)

When doing foundations you actually have two choices. First is to dig down to below the frost line and start the build up from there. Second is to use rocks, laid directly on the soil surface, either way will work. Most of the houses built back in the 1690's and through to the mid 1800's were built on dry stack rock foundations, set on the soil surface. When you use this method, you are bypassing the heaving effect of the frost line. It's when you start submerging the bottom layer of the foundation that frost heaving becomes an issue. 

If you want to build your cabin the way J.J. would have, you will lay a ring of large rocks to form the bottom layer, these will be on the soil surface, not dug down. Then you will rig a plumb bob with string and a rock for the weight, fasten that to a tripod of branches, hold a square flush with the plumb line for level. batter boards would be set at all four corners about 2 feet back from the actual corners of the building foundation, strings would be attached with loops, pulled taught and set against the plumb line/ square, leveled to the square then the foundation rocks would be stacked till they meet the lines. you can pm me for more details on how to build this historic way.


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