# Whole house generator



## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Wife and I have been discussing getting one, possibly this year. Planning on propane Generac, about 15kw and electrician to wire it up.

We just got a call from wife's grandmom. She is getting ready to move to an elder community and is setting her home up for sale. Real estate agent told her generator will not add to the value (she asked, it was not volunteered info).

She installed it 3 years ago, and is now uninstalling it and wanted to know if we'd be interested...:sing:

Generac, 15kw propane and all We need to do is pick it up from Harrisburg. Yeah, I figure a 6 hour round trip is on the horizon. Probably try to make a family visit out of it since we were snowed out for Christmas.

Matt


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## Peace n Quiet (Jun 16, 2003)

Wow... I'm a licensed RE salesperson and a certified Appraiser in PA. I'm surprised at the agents answer. Wonder what her reasoning was? I mean granted, Harrisburg area does not generally have the snow activity that we do a few hours north, but still... snow happens!
Hope you enjoy your new generator. I would love to fall into a deal like that!


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Funny thing is that it was her installing one that really got us thinking about getting one.

Personally, if I was in the market for a new (to us) home, the genny would be a selling point. I guess different strokes for different folks. It's a quiet little suburban area, mostly middle age and up.

Matt


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Wow- although I see the realtor said "won't add value", which I suppose is true. I have yet to buy a house just because it had a nice appliance.
Congratulations. When I built my house, I had one added. For about a year, when the power went out it was dead quiet except for mine but now you can hear them kick on in every direction.
Donxt forget the transfer switch- that can be pricey.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I know several people who have them. They have never paid for themselves.
If you have a medical problem that needs power all of the time they would be worth it.


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## rockyriver (Nov 23, 2014)

go for it!! 
great idea. 

do you want to make a little money on it?? 

no payback? 
phooey 
what is the value of your frozen goods? 

storm hits... 
every body else's freezer and fridge go out. 
not you. 
15 kw is a good size... 
not much you won't be able to do.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Roadking said:


> Wife and I have been discussing getting one, possibly this year. Planning on propane Generac, about 15kw and electrician to wire it up.
> 
> We just got a call from wife's grandmom. She is getting ready to move to an elder community and is setting her home up for sale. Real estate agent told her generator will not add to the value (she asked, it was not volunteered info).
> 
> ...


I wouldn't pass that up either. But, make sure you look at the Generac warranty. While it may be expired now, the warranty info will give you an idea of the limitations of the unit. They are not rated for prime use. Only standby. That means extended usage would void the warranty and possibly damage the unit.

Locally an individual considered selling them. After checking the quality/reliability he passed on the idea. Of all the units out there that can be used as whole house units, AFAIK only the Hawkpower line is rated for prime use. They are designed to be started and run for as long as almost three months 24/7 until they need to be shutdown and the oil changed.

An extended run option is available (bigger oil pan) that will allow the unit to be run almost seven months 24/7 without stopping. The engines normally run 30,000 to 40,000 hours before rebuilding.


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## halfpint (Jan 24, 2005)

pancho said:


> I know several people who have them. They have never paid for themselves.
> If you have a medical problem that needs power all of the time they would be worth it.


Although we don't have a whole house generator, ours has paid for itself many times over, and would have if it was a whole house generator. 

After winter storm 93, we purchased a generator - my FIL next door said it was a waste of money. Had a few storms with power out for a day or two and he refused to use it to keep his fridge going - he purchased dry ice to keep them cold.

Then we had a major storm in 95, where we lost power for almost two weeks and we rotated the generator between our house, my FIL's house and a neighbors house to keep the freezers & refrigerators cold. After that they both bought one also. Up until about 2007 when they rerouted our power lines, we had at least 2-3 days without power every year, and it has saved our frozen food every time. Now we're typically only without power for extended periods about every 3-4 years, so it would take longer to pay itself off.

Congratulations on your new generator!

Dawn


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

I wouldn't say mine has paid for itself in dollars, but the convenience and peace of mind has been well worth it, and I can't put a price on that. I imagine they only add to the selling price of a house if you get just the right buyer, but it might still be a selling feature to other buyers...they just don't want to pay for it.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

If I had to choose a home that had a whole house generator vs. no WHG, all else being equal, I would pick the one with. Would I need a charge card for that? Good luck.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

I have one and it is the best money spent. If something happens it will kick on in 15 secionds and powers up in about 1 minuet. This helps if I am gone and only my wife is at home or if nobody is home. I have well water and need electric to pump it to the house. The transfer switch cost about $200 but is really worth it.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Spend plenty of unhurried time removing the transfer switch. Tag and lable. everything.

Enjoy your new find..................


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

She's having her electrician, who did the install, uninstall it for her / us.

After Sandy, and running a 5kw Pincor genny 24/7 for 5 days (getting up in the middle of the night to "feed" it, really made us think about one. Needed it for our sump pump to keep basement from flooding...that would have been costly to repair. Spent $120 plus in gas.

It will be a standby, not full time use.

My electrician will do the install here. We have been in communications off and on about this for a while. He's said from the git go, "you buy it and I'll hook it up", even tho he could get a mark up if I bought through him.

A bit of good news on this cold and miserable day.

Matt

ETA...now what to do with my 4500 and 5000 watt gennies...keeping them as back-ups, of course.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Deleted


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

I realize you have to consider the price advantage in this case, as maybe the generator is free except the cost to remove and re-install.....RK didn't say if his mom was gifting this to him or he was buying it from her...nor is that any of my business....

But since this IS the S&P forum, I'm gonna throw out an alternative way of looking at power supply for a home. 

I went thru this same deal (except I'd be buying a new whole house generator) about 9 years ago.

Let me make the case for solar instead, and get a much smaller generator as backup. 

Here is why. 

A 15kw generator is fine when you're running large loads. 

But what about in the middle of the night when all that is running the fridge kicking on once per half hour, the freezer the same, and maybe a few light bulbs/etc. ? And you only need 1/2-1kw constant, with intermittent loads of 2-3kw more when one of those refrigeration units kicks on....and that is a WHOLE LOT of a 24hr period if you start studying your electric use.

Well, the generator folks will tell you "it uses X amount of propane on full load, and 1/2 X on half load " and so on. But the fact is is uses a fair amount of fuel on NO load just to keep it spinning. And if you get into a extended grid down situation (remember, this is S&P  ), then you'll probably NOT be able to stock enough fuel to see you thru.

Even with any size generator, it makes more sense to run a battery bank and inverters for small to medium size loads, then fire up the generator once or twice a day to recharge the batteries. Let the batteries be your main source for "off peak" loads, then let the generator pick up the slack as needed.

Once you go to the batteries and inverter(s) (I have twin 2500w ones), it's just one more step to add solar to it, and cut the use (or SIZE if you're buying one) of the generator even more.

Generators require regular maintenance...oil changes, etc. The more you run them, the quicker they require it.

Fuel: As I said....a 15kw Generac propane unit will use 1.32gal/hr on 1/2 load. In 24hrs of running, that's at least 30gal....more likely 40-50. Run it a week, and you're probably looking at 250 gallons per week. Unless you have a really large tank, or multiple tanks ( I have three 500gal ones myself...one I use, two I keep in reserve), you're looking at a couple weeks, tops. Of course, I realize the 'average' outage is really only a few hours to a day...but we DO have those times that a week or two isn't out of the question. (AND, since this is S&P....we tend to look even farther down the road.....)

Tax treatment. Whole house generators are not given any special tax treatment. Build you a decent battery bank, with inverter(s), and stick just ONE solar panel on it, and you have a 30% Federal tax credit thru the end of next year + maybe State and local incentives. 

You may also get paid for backfeeding your local utility. (this is REAL area dependent) We do...the power we produce during the day when we mostly don't use it gives us a credit against the power we do use when the solar isn't producing. Right now, we produce enough to have ZERO power bill during the year + they pay us $500-800/yr for the excess. So instead of costing us to sit there 99% of the time (whole house generator), ours works every day producing power we use, and if the grid goes down, it flips over to supply power for us. If we deplete our batteries, a small generator is turned on long enough to refill them, and then shuts down.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Point well stated TnAndy, and I concur, it is overkill for what we actually would need. Just something we were going to do, but now are doing for the cost of a 6 hour drive...that we'd been planning on anyway.

Now, about the solar mix you mention, re taxes... Currently have 3 100 watt renogy panels and very small battery bank (2 t-105s) for lights in the greenhouse.

Not looking to back feed into the grid, so is there a way to make the situation even better for us? Take the money we were going to spend on the genny and add panels? Need pro installer to get tax incentive, don't you?

Thanks in advance...if this gets too in depth, we can do PMs or start up in Alt Energy.

Matt


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Not quite sure what you're asking in terms of making it better for you........

You do not need a pro installer for the federal credit. The form simply wants to know what you spent, and date placed in service. They don't care who put it in.

You'd have to check on State or local, if that applies.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Congrats, Matt - good score. I think I have genny envy (mine's only 7kw ).

Nothing says you have to keep the genny on at night - shut it down and save the fuel. The fridge and freezer will be fine overnight, and you already have other lighting sources, I bet.


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## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

Do it. We have one at this farm and are puting one in at our new place. We spent a week with out power and heat. and that was that.......no more ......Who cares if it's over kill........SCORE!!!!!


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

pancho said:


> I know several people who have them. They have never paid for themselves.
> If you have a medical problem that needs power all of the time they would be worth it.


 I guess it would depend on what you mean by paying for themselves. Would peace of mind count?

We put ours in because we do not have drains in our basement. Every bit of water including foundation drains has to be pumped up and out with a sump pump. Without an automatic transfer when power is out our basement would flood. That means furnace, water heater, storage, pantry, freezer and much more would be ruined. The plus of this generator is it also will power the furnace and much of the house. I certainly have a lot of peace of mind since it was installed.


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## quietperson (May 31, 2004)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> I guess it would depend on what you mean by paying for themselves. Would peace of mind count?
> 
> We put ours in because we do not have drains in our basement. Every bit of water including foundation drains has to be pumped up and out with a sump pump. Without an automatic transfer when power is out our basement would flood. That means furnace, water heater, storage, pantry, freezer and much more would be ruined. The plus of this generator is it also will power the furnace and much of the house. I certainly have a lot of peace of mind since it was installed.


This is the very reason we got our whole house standby generator. After having to replace three furnaces due to water from our electric being out for days at a time, the generator was a great investment. No muss, no fuss......the power goes out, the generator kicks in within 2 minutes and life goes on wonderfully.



355


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I've been interested in getting such a back-up system; however, I've been told they are terribly noisy. Is this true?


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

The noise is minimal because the engines are not the cheapos in the portables. The one my dad has (not generac...I forget the brand) runs a Honda. Can barely hear it outside, and can't hear it indoors.
These engines have actual mufflers, not just spark arrestors.

Matt


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The small Honda EU models are very quiet. If you need a generator you can run and not alert the neighbors, the Honda is the one.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Consider buying another propane tank---no less than 500 gallons. You will need it with that size gen........
Thankfully propane prices are down.............
TnAndy has some very valid points in his post.
But you can modify your electrical usage by putting freezers and stuff on timers so that they do not kick in "around the clock"........To let you control the amount of time that a big genny is running.
A small 1 or 2000 watt Yamaha or Honda genny will be way more than enough to keep you going at "night"

I do not backfeed the grid (long story) but my system is such that push to shove, my Yamaha 4600e will power my 240vac well-----if there has been no wind or solar for a spell . . . . . . .
The Yamaha 2000i will also charge up my battery banks when the sun and wind are gone.
Yes your small system can easily be upgraded .........


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

motdaugrnds said:


> I've been interested in getting such a back-up system; however, I've been told they are terribly noisy. Is this true?


Make sure you get run that runs at 1800rpm....not only do they last much longer, they put out much less noise. The small, noisy ones (AKA "the screamers"  ) run at 3600rpm to produce their rated output, which is one reason they are so noisy.

Also, the whole house models are usually mounted in an enclosed cabinet that has sound deadening material on them. You can hear them, but not anything like one of the 'screamers' sitting out in the open. Most of them will give a decibel (sound) rating, you're looking for something under 70. The 'screamers' are probably 110 or more.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

Can I join this conversation with an opposing viewpoint, please?

I have lived in this house in a rural part of the state for 15 years. During that time, there have been multiple power outages, yet I have never fired up the generator. In planning for emergencies, I have:
a woodstove for heat with a flat top large enough to cook on
a small metal oven to place on top of the woodstove, enough room in that for one loaf of bread
a gas range that can be used without electricity
a huge 5-day cooler to keep frozen food protected
a smaller 5-day cooler for refrigerated food
canners and extra jars/lids to can up whatever cannot be kept frozen
rain barrels in the summer
two Aladin lamps, although I would just as soon go to bed when it got dark and get up when it got light 

That leaves water, but as DH explains it, the generator won't run the pump, so...

I admit that I am a bit of a minimalist and like to simplify things. It just seems like a generator brings with it annual maintenance, noise and cost of fuel. It doesn't seem like I would be better off with one, but when I read all of the comments in this thread, they make me wonder if I might be completely missing something.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

We were thinking about it before, but when one comes along for free (yes, need a tank and fuel), makes the idea a whole lot more interesting.
Do we need it? No.
Can we survive without it? Yes.
Would it be a nice thing to have, for peace of mind? Yes.
Is it worth buying the whole set up? Maybe yes, maybe no, but when the major expense has been handed down gratis...I'm glad to be the recipient, and will alocate $$ to the appropriate areas for comfort.

Matt


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Mine is pretty noisy. It has a Briggs & Stratton engine that runs at 3600 RPM. But it's usually only on when I'm not home. When I'm home and need a generator I fire up my slow diesel that is much quieter and more fuel efficient.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

jtbrandt said:


> Mine is pretty noisy. It has a Briggs & Stratton engine that runs at 3600 RPM. But it's usually only on when I'm not home. When I'm home and need a generator I fire up my slow diesel that is much quieter and more fuel efficient.


I have a Briggs and Striation whole house generator and you can hear it if everything is quiet but any noise and you can't. But mine is a 20 KW and sits near the pole that holes my meter around 40 feet away.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Ours in not terribly noisy, but it definitely can be heard. When the power is off everything is very very quiet until the generators begin kicking on. We have an apartment complex across the street with a large diesel generator and the nursing home 3 blocks away also has a large diesel unit. The last time the power was off at 2 a.m. when the windows were open I stood at the window and counted 4 or 5 generators besides ours.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Marilyn said:


> In planning for emergencies, I have:
> 
> a huge 5-day cooler to keep frozen food protected
> a smaller 5-day cooler for refrigerated food



Care to share where you got these "5 day coolers" and how they work? 

I never heard of anything you could stick frozen food in that would last 5 days without power. 

Standard freezer, maybe 2-3 days, not opening them, assuming they are full, and assuming the outage wasn't in the middle of summer...but beyond that, no.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Old Vet said:


> I have a Briggs and Striation whole house generator and you can hear it if everything is quiet but any noise and you can't. But mine is a 20 KW and sits near the pole that holes my meter around 40 feet away.


Mine is about a 2 feet from the house and it's very quiet out here, so I'm pretty sensitive to noise. It's also quite a bit smaller, just for the essential circuits not the whole house. I think it's 8 kW. I wonder if the bigger ones have better mufflers or sound deadening in the enclosure. Or maybe liquid cooled instead of air...that would make a big difference in the noise.


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## michael ark (Dec 11, 2013)

If it's 2F or 102F will you really care how loud it is?


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## Backtolandscape (Sep 27, 2014)

Here in Central Fla, I have been thru more than a few hurricanes. I have gas and diesel generators. Can you afford fuel to power the whole house ? If its long enough outage and you no longer run heat or air the fridge and water pump were my main concern. May have to ask if the fridge is worth the fuel costs (my homeowners ins reimbursed $500 for fridge contents. With the fridge down its mostly a water pump. With LEDs getting sooooo much better you can have a lot of lights for very little fuel. A large genny loafing to power a fridge still uses a lot of fuel.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

michael ark said:


> If it's 2F or 102F will you really care how loud it is?


When you have regular outages like some of us do, yes. Especially with one that comes on automatically...it can be a rude awakening if it fires up in the middle of the night.

I have mine set to delayed start so it doesn't fire up until the power has been out for 4 hours or the house drops below 45 degrees, though. Most outages are shorter than that, plus the heating system will run on batteries for a couple days.


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

We have a large diesel generator that powers the whole house. It is very noisy when we have had to use it. We live at the end of a power line so when power goes down we are the first to feel it. In a shtf situation I think the noise would alert anyone around. We only use it as a last resort.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

TnAndy said:


> Care to share where you got these "5 day coolers" and how they work?
> 
> I never heard of anything you could stick frozen food in that would last 5 days without power.
> 
> Standard freezer, maybe 2-3 days, not opening them, assuming they are full, and assuming the outage wasn't in the middle of summer...but beyond that, no.


WMart. They are stored in loft above garage, so I cannot be sure about the brand right now. They were a little on the pricey side, but not out of reach by any means. We have not had to put them to the ultimate test, but did take one on a 3-day camping trip - in and out of it multiple times a day - warm weather - and we still had a lot of ice when we got home.

I'm pretty confident that it would live up to it's name for 5 days if we did not keep opening it.

DH just climbed up there to check. They are Coleman Xtreme 5 coolers.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

TnAndy said:


> Care to share where you got these "5 day coolers" and how they work?
> 
> I never heard of anything you could stick frozen food in that would last 5 days without power.
> 
> Standard freezer, maybe 2-3 days, not opening them, assuming they are full, and assuming the outage wasn't in the middle of summer...but beyond that, no.


I don't know what the poster has but these are suppossed to be the cats meow and all the cool kids have one. http://www.amazon.com/Yeti-Tundra-6...424889091&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=yettie+cooler They come bigger and smaller and several competing brands also. No I don't have one.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

A lot of people with those "5 day coolers" are in for a mighty big surprise when it really hits the fan..........

Just a fancy "ice box" . . . . . no more no less........

If It really hits the fan just where do you think you are going to get ice . . let alone dry ice . . .???


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

I don't think anyone is expecting 5 day coolers to get them through in the long term...probably more like 5 days.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Marilyn said:


> WMart. They are stored in loft above garage, so I cannot be sure about the brand right now. They were a little on the pricey side, but not out of reach by any means. We have not had to put them to the ultimate test, but did take one on a 3-day camping trip - in and out of it multiple times a day - warm weather - and we still had a lot of ice when we got home.
> 
> I'm pretty confident that it would live up to it's name for 5 days if we did not keep opening it.
> 
> DH just climbed up there to check. They are Coleman Xtreme 5 coolers.



There is quite a difference in "there is still ice in it", and keeping food frozen solid for 5 days.

Can they keep things cool, with enough ice initially ? Most likely.

But I highly doubt you're gonna save a freezer full of food with them, unless you plan on eating it kinda fast. 

I'd think you'd be better off to just leave the food in the freezer to start with.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

...and before the outage would hit the 5-day mark, I would have started canning...

unless, of course, that outage hit during cold winter weather, then this huge cooler would be protecting our frozen food outdoors.


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## Jlynnp (Sep 9, 2014)

pancho said:


> I know several people who have them. They have never paid for themselves.
> If you have a medical problem that needs power all of the time they would be worth it.


We are 5 days without power and it could still be awhile. We do have a small 5000 Generator which powers a few things including the heat. Without it life would be he**. In my opinion it is worth it.


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## jimbo913 (Jun 18, 2015)

Coolers are rated like sleeping bags. 20d bag really means a 45d bag. A 5 day cooler means a 2-3 day cooler.

There are many possible shtf scenarios, and we are not always considering or planning for the worse case. I have a nice 1800rpm military diesel generator and I will use it 24/7 in a lights out short term power failure scenario to keep the family comfortable. If it appears to be a long term shtf scenario I will only start the generator to pump well water and possibly recharge batteries. At .33 gal per hour at 5000w and .9 gph at 10000w, it would take a long while to go through 250 gal of diesel. I could pump all the water we need for a week in just a few mins.

I think it is ok to live comfortable but the key is having backup plans. One of my backups is my RV which we can live in and run off battery/solar and power for awhile on 400gal of stored propane. We would use the generator only to pump well water to fill the holding tank.

The next backup for the well water is a hand well pump good for 225' (new in box).

I run a pellet stove and grow corn to mix with pellets but I also have everything needed to install a wood stove if ever needed and I have wood already split and covered. If I have to punch a hole in the side if the house or RV in a long term shtf scenario then thats what I will do.

There are those that live rough now so they are ready later and there are those that live good now and hope they are ready later. I think there is room for us all..


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Roadking said:


> Wife and I have been discussing getting one, possibly this year. Planning on propane Generac, about 15kw and electrician to wire it up.
> 
> We just got a call from wife's grandmom. She is getting ready to move to an elder community and is setting her home up for sale. Real estate agent told her generator will not add to the value (she asked, it was not volunteered info).
> 
> ...


Matt, that's wonderful good luck for you and the family.

Those are the type my generator selling/installing son-in-law were installing in the doctor and other high income people's homes. The type for ones with medical necessity of having power, etc.

I'm happy for you. And good luck getting it home and fully installed.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Anyone considering a Generac needs to read the warranty. There's a loophole big enough to drive a truck through. It's called prime prime. It automatically voids the warranty.

http://www.generac.com/generaccorpo...s/0j4308-r-a-lc-below-50kw-01-11.pdf?ext=.pdf


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