# Wood stoves and off the grid...



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

I found this wood stove on Craigslist today down in K Falls and was curious about it. Since I happen to be heading down to K Falls this weekend to go fishing with my father I thought I would check it out. The price is $225.00. Since I have never done this type of thing before what should I be looking out for?? Any thoughts about this??


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

This is another one I am looking at. It comes from the big ranch down in that area. 










LANG'S LIBERTY RANGE / LANG #50
Original wood cook stove from the Running Y Ranch. This one is 450.00.


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## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

You want look at the fire bricks make sure they are all there and in good shape, and you want to look at the tin surrounding the oven to see if its in good shape or will need work.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Okay, I know what fire bricks are, but what is tin?


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## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

its sheet metal its sorta the same stuff they make soup cans out of, it lines the inside of the oven you don't want holes in it. lol


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

One of my bigger concerns are I plan to heat with wood only. The area over there is cold cold cold. Even in summer I guess it can still get pretty cold at night. Would a stove like this be able to heat a house with out putting in a ton of wood all the time OR am I better off buying a wood stove only that isn't meant for cooking? Think along the lines of it being pretty darned cold over there. 

I remember waking up to ice inside of my windows as a child and that was with a good wood stove my father kept burning the entire night.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

IF You are planning to be alone or nearly so, Either would do, BUT youll make faster fires off of the top one. IF you intend to be feeding many folks, and doing ALOT of bakeing/canning, Then the bottom will be needed

Check the deviders between the plates for warpage. IF they are, I dont know of a way to fix them, as there cast. To do this, try wobbeling the plates IN ALL DIRECTIONS. IF they are seated good, then likely the deviders are OK.

ONE thing you can try to do with a warped devider, is to put JB Weld inside the lip of the devider, and seat the plate by pressing firmly on the side of the plate away from the devider, meaning pressing from the front if its the front plate thats wobbeling, press on the front side of the plate, then CAREFULLY, so not to apply any undue pressure onto the devider, pull off the plate and let the JB dry. Dont know how heat resistant it is tho.

Take a look into the firebox Look CLOSELY to the grates. IF there warped, Thats bad. IF there broke, walk away. Make sure you can rotate the grates. They move only a couple inches. Make sure they do that.
IF the grates are bad or gone, and you can drive the price down, You can try 1in THICK expandable metal, double layered with the thickest rodding you can get. Im thinking it would be 1/4 to 3/8ths. Weld both pieces together. This will help with warpage. IF and when it does warp, Just flip it over. Thatll make it last longer, BUT In the LONG run, the heat is takeing the integrity of the steel out each time you flip it, and sooner or later the welds will break.
I see the smaller one has a guage. See if anybody will tell you if it works or not. IF possible, ask to fire it up. That will tell you the condition of the deviders, and the guage.
Check the oven inside. Are the racks, AND rack holders at the sides in good condition. Im imagening that they are alful rusty. You can wire brush them then coat with stove black and theyll look fine. Make sure the doors close TIGHTLY.
On the bottom one, the retanglular hole at the R side of the oven door, Im assumeing is something to regulate the heat comeing into the oven. MAKE SURE It is all there and working. Check the ash pans.
What are the 2 squares on top the top shelf on the top one for

Thats all I can think of.
IF you buy the bottom one, when you get it hauled home, OUTSIDE, clean it up good. Brush it good with a wire brush, then vacumn the loost rust off. Spray it with WD 40 and let set for a day or better 2. Wire brush it again, and vacumn. Then coat with Stove Black while it is somewhat hot. When cool again, it is ready to move into kitchen.
You may want to put a damper in your pipe to help regulate the escape of heat. Make sure it is at least 6in above the back drop so that you can easily reach it.


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## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

I didn't find a cookstove all that good for heating a house, my place before this one I heated with wood only and found a wood stove for heating and a cookstove for cooking was a better way to go, but location and how your house is insulated will make some difference.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

How big is your house gonna be?

If your gonna be off grid, in a cold climate, i would put lots of thought into my stove, and how important cooking is. Lots of cooking can be done on a rwgular wood burner, if space is a consideration.

If your building a bigger home, i would stringly consider a rocket mass heater


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Bill, yes I am planning on living alone, no I do not plan to cook for large amounts of people. It is only me by the time I do this project. Good advice, I might have to print it off and go through the check list while I am looking. Thank you for taking time and giving it to me, the both of you are great.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

mickm said:


> How big is your house gonna be?
> 
> If your gonna be off grid, in a cold climate, i would put lots of thought into my stove, and how important cooking is. Lots of cooking can be done on a rwgular wood burner, if space is a consideration.
> 
> If your building a bigger home, i would stringly consider a rocket mass heater


Mick, this is a small house that I am building with a extension off the back for my kitchen. That is where the stove would go. Heating is a big concern as it is below zero quite a bit over there. Echoechos would be able to tell you more about the temps as she lives that way as well. 

Here is the link to the house I am building, small because it is just me. 

http://ittybittyhouseplans.wordpress.com/2012/09/21/16-x-20-plan-1/


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## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

If your house is really small the cook stove may just heat it fine , but as the wood box is small you will be feeding it more.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

You wont be able to build a fire in either of those and expect a warm hiouse by midnight. The bigger one would keep a house hotter longer. Id greatly suggest that you consider keeping an heating stove handy. IF you got to use it, its there. IF NOT, you can sell it


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

FBB gave a real good post on what to look for, and No1 added some good thoughts as well. A house that small might be heated by rubbing two sticks together though?

Wood cook stoves arent meant for holding a long heat though. By it's arrangement they're meant for a hot fast heat. Might be some are made differant now, but in that era that you are looking at, I don't think so.

Keep in mind that wood heat used to be somewhat centralized in earlier days, as well as several doors to keep it where it was needed. If it wasn't needed, that was a time for a porch or outdoor kitchen. If you don't have an open floor plan or a way to move the hot air around, or enough mass to hold the air temp well, you might be starting several fires a night since they typically don't hold a fire.


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

I don't really see where you would have room in your small house for the second one. The first one looks a lot like the wood burning cook stove my dad's grandparents and father (all 3 lived together) had in their old house in Idaho. It was built like old farmhouses were built back then, with one main room that served as kitchen, dining area, mud room and even a single bed in one corner. (The other bedrooms were upstairs and off the back of the house and they were always cold.) My recollection is that they had a regular wood burning stove in that room, IN ADDITION to the cook stove. The cook stove threw a lot of heat when it was going, but it wasn't going all the time.

Littlejoe makes another good point. Make sure you can close off areas you're not trying to heat. I heat with a regular wood burning stove, heat a 2,000 sf house with it alone. But I can heat the area where I spend the most time very fast by closing off a pocket door to one side of the house and drawing a heavy curtain to close off another. When it's bedtime, I can open up the bedroom area and release the heat to it. Just with the heavy curtain, the temperature variance between the rooms may be 15-20 degrees. Saves a lot of wood, though, because I'm only heating the part of the house I'm using at the time.

At my mother's parents' house in north central Montana, I remember there was a small bunkhouse for the hired men who worked there at harvest time. I stayed in it sometimes when I lived up there helping her for awhile. That part of the world got COLD. But that bunkhouse was well heated with just a nice little pot-bellied stove. I wonder if you might not get better bank for your wood buck with that type of stove and then using a smaller cook stove just for cooking and supplemental heat...? You'd have to think about where to position the pot bellied stove, though.

Just thinking out loud.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

640 sf is pretty big.

Those folks gave ya good advice, neither one of those stoves will heat it. A rocket mass stove would heat it, and take up very little room. They aldo use about sn 1/8 th of the wood that a conventional stove does.


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## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

I don't know as much about wood cookstoves as I do about woodstoves and building in general. At home up north, my house (that I still have and is for sale, anyone LOL) is about 1200 sq. ft. and I use(d) one wood burning stove to heat it. When it gets very cold and you get the coals built up, you only have to stoke it about once every 10 to 12 hours. Keeps it at a pretty good 70 degrees if it's very cold out, otherwise much warmer. And it's actually not that big.

Plus, Cindilu...since you are building yourself, you have mucho control over how your house is built, 2x6 walls, a good vapor barrier and an open floor plan geared towards air circulation afford a large difference in heading and cooling cost and ability.

Personally..and this is only my own preference, I would have a smaller wood cookstove and a small wood heat stove or Mick has a good suggestion as well. I have seen the mass heaters in action, especially with stucco type walls...they are pretty amazing. I have also seen people that combine a more traditional wood stove with the mass heating principle and those work awesome as well.

Also, personally, for canning and keeping the temp correct, my plan has always included an outdoor kitchen with a gas stove. Because the bulk of canning is done when it is still pretty warm out. But again, personal preference.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Getting stoked every 10-12 hours, sounds about right!

The only thing i know about those old wood stoves is they are inefficent! Since it will be something you use a lot, put a lot of thought in to your stove.


Also, PLEASE dont buy a kit home. Soooo msny more effecient ways to do it. I dont know the buiding codes, where you are going, but any good carpenter csn build you a much better home, for probably less money.

Not one of the guys with big adds, and a shiny truck, but the guy with holes in his jeans and callused hands.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Since the house is very small and I really only want to buy one wood stove I am thinking that the wood cook stove might not be the best option. I have the stove put in a central position in the kitchen and not set against the wall because I would like central heat and good air flow around it. I would also like to not have to get up in the middle of the night and keep putting wood in but rather put a good load of wood at night and wake up to hot coals in the morning. 

Mick, I am not buying a kit home. I LOVE my link that I put up but that is my blue print for what I am wanting to build. Code here in Oregon says 2x6 wall studs and the house link I put up has 2x4. You are right about not getting a builder with big adds and a shiny truck but rather pick the guy with holes and callused hands. I was hoping my father would help me build actually. He knows how to frame a house and I had planned on helping him. He can saw and I can and know how to use a hammer. I no longer have talons for nails so that isn't a issue any more. I had to make a choice which was more important, beautiful nails or my house project and my house project won over. 

Whynot, I love the idea of having a outdoor kitchen for canning.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Here is a picture of my dream outdoor kitchen... 

A girl can dream right?


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## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Yeah a lot of times practicality wins out. I am actually pretty sure because of that my little woodcook stove may not survive the final cut when all this actually goes down. Unless I get a really sweet deal on one.

Reason being..I have this other idea LOL...If you spend the money to get a really nice, very efficient gas burning range that has the electric ignition instead of the constant pilot...because they are all too short for me anyway I was thinking of putting it on heavy duty rollers, building the porch\outdoor kitchen on the "backside" of the in-house kitchen and making sure the door is wide enough to buy one range for two purposes....having the kitchens basically back to back, I can put the plumbing and the gas line in the same wall and just add more connections...and roll my range out onto the back kitchen when it is hotter than hades and do all my cooking including canning and etc out there. 

And for when the range is out of the inside kitchen, just have a piece of counter that fills in...so I gain cupboard space in the summer for preserving and etc as well.

This is why it really pays to think things out, I think. Also, as far as cooking on a woodstove, there are many different kinds of wood heaters out there, and many will allow for the pot of soup or chili on the stove all day long as well....without having to tend the woodstove every half hour or whatever.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Cindi Whats those sacks origional use?


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Bill, it is in French I am pretty sure but I love them. I am thinking they were flour sacks. TommyIce maybe could tell you what they say. I also am pretty sure I need glasses at this point because most of the words I cannot really see.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Cob Masonry Heater up in your part of the PNW. They both retain heat so require a lot less wood.










https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.721907394634.2235924.302006&l=96ae07df46

http://www.firespeaking.com/portfolio/cob-masonry-heater-at-cob-cottage-company/

Or a cob mass heater like this with a heated bench.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Keep in mind, on newer stoves with electronic ignition, the eont eork without electric. So if your power is out, no cooking. Cant be sltered, either. Will i guess anything can be altered, but not easily


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

We lived in a 10X 40ish trailer and heated with a wood cook stove. Outside temps in the winter are in the 20's. That trailer was NOT well insulated.

If one really knows their woods one can have some coals come morning.

Mrs Whodunit


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

I am a carpenter, but lots of more effecient ways to build, then traditionally, too.


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

The thing about wood heating is the northern us, where in some areas 20 would be balmy, there is not a lot of hardwood to burn.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

As quaint as the old wood cook stoves are, they're really inefficient as heaters. They can do the job if you don't mind spending your life making your wood small enough for for the firebox, feeding the stove and rebuilding the fire. I have a small Enterprise. I read the specs before buying. It can do the job, it does the job, but it's a fulltime job. That is one tiny firebox! It takes quite a few stuffings to get the oven up to temp and keep it there 

There are some very modern and efficient cook/heat wood stoves that are airtight, fuel efficient, big firebox and a large door so you can burn knots. The stove I drooled on was an enameled vertical cylander with an oven and flat top. I love the Scandanavian designs.

I think the best way to get the information you want is to visit a stove dealer and read the specifications on different stoves. There is nothing worse than having a stove too small or too large for your space.


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> Cindi Whats those sacks origional use?


Something to do with Orange Blossoms.


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

mickm said:


> Keep in mind, on newer stoves with electronic ignition, the eont eork without electric. So if your power is out, no cooking. Cant be sltered, either. Will i guess anything can be altered, but not easily


That's true for my oven, but I can always light my electronic-ignition burners with a match. As long as I can heat water for coffee, I'm golden.  Since she's planning to generate some electricity off grid, this may not be too much of a concern..?


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## rileyjo (Feb 14, 2005)

I've had both and given a choice, I would take a well made quality cookstove. Spend the money and get a good one.

I had an off grid cabin that I would trek out to in winter (crossed the lake for the last mile). The cabin was about 400 sq feet and the cookstove could keep it at 80*F quite easily, once you got it going. It was an old place, with a metal roof and zero insulation. The front door was constantly being opened which let in drafts.
The downside to a cookstove is that you needed to tend it constantly, including getting up once during the night to stoke it. The firebox only held a small, slender amount of wood and if the wood was the tiniest bit wet, it smoked and sputtered. You must have well seasoned wood in a suitable length. No burning of punky scraps or free garbage wood. 

The upside is that toast,bacon and eggs will never taste better than when cooked with cast iron on a cookstove. I can cook an entire turkey dinner on that cookstove because I know it's quirks and sweet spots.
You can also use it to dry wet outerwear. One of the best features is that you always have warm water in the reservoir, which is a huge thing when you live off grid.
As a woman, a cookstove supply of wood is easier to handle and maintain than creating a shedfull of heavy cordwood for an airtight.

I would go out to the cabin for days at time by myself. I would snowmobilie in pulling a trailer of gear and if I couldnt get the cookstove going, I'd be hauling myself back to town in a hurry. It never happened because I was fussy about having enough wood and being prepared.

A good cookstove becomes the heart of your home. Take your time and build your house around it.


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## rileyjo (Feb 14, 2005)

The sacks say Huile d'Olive which means Olive Oil.


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

Riley there's also Fleur d'Oranger on those sacks. I'm thinking they might have something to do with soap. 

Orange blossom water and olive oils make for some nice soaps


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Have you considered earthships?


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Raeven said:


> That's true for my oven, but I can always light my electronic-ignition burners with a match. As long as I can heat water for coffee, I'm golden.  Since she's planning to generate some electricity off grid, this may not be too much of a concern..?


Thst is true of most, but some are being made now that have a sendor, for the top burner.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

mickm said:


> Have you considered earthships?


Mick, we must subscribe to the same thing on Facebook because I just saw this picture this morning as well, lol.


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## rileyjo (Feb 14, 2005)

Soap would make more sense. You dont usually carry olive oil around in a sack. Savon is the french word for soap.

I live in Quebec. I have learned most of my francais by osmosis.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Man Mick, I hate to heat that house you showed with alla that glass.


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Here is another wood stove I am considering then, it is smaller and it seems to put out the heat. I think I would at least wake up to coals in the morning, what do you think?? 

http://www.landmsupply.com/departme...-stove-company-large-logwood-stock-wood-stove

U.S. Stove Company Large Logwood Stock Wood Stove

Exempt by the Environmental Protection Agency for low maintenance wood burning. Features removable cooking eyes. The firebox will need to be lined with either a 1 1/2" of brick, 1 1/2" of sand, or you can purchase the optional G42 grate. Weight: 185 lbs.

Heat Capacity: Up to 1,600 sq.ft

Heat output: Up to 94,000 BTU's/hr 

Dimensions: 26" W x 28.25" H x 35.75" L

Firebox Dimensions: 15" W x 27" D x 15.5" H

Flue Collar Size: 6"

Log Length: 27"



What are BTU's? 

What would it mean to be exempt?


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Well, I'm thinking they call a cook stove a cook stove for a reason...probably because it's good to cook on. Likely puts out good heat but not as much as a stove MADE to heat a house.

Mon


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I have a small wood cookstove in my off grid cabin. It works but the wood has to be small to regulate the oven to bake good. It does not hold a fire good because those old wood cookstoves have gaps everywhere. It became too much to keep going one winter so we moved here. I would like to get back out there full time someday. Love to cook on it but it needs tended too much to be a real heater. Remember you will have 2 story to deal with and where you want to put it is in another addition, not best for full house heating. Our old farm house growing up had ceiling/floor registers to heat the second floor. Warm downstairs means HOT upstairs if you don't insulate between the 2 floors....James


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Most of those stoves arent air tight. IF you get one, Get the stove pipe oven to go with it. Being NOT airtignt, They will put out the heat, you can fry on the top, but it wont hold fire overnight,


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## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

FarmboyBill said:


> Man Mick, I hate to heat that house you showed with alla that glass.


Its an earthship, bill. No utilitys at all, mainly heated through solar. Very, very effecient, as in dont fost a dime. Indoor greenhouse, all year around. Made out of old tires, plastic bottles and cobb.

Whst i woild like to see is how cool they can get it, when its much hot.


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## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

mickm said:


> Keep in mind, on newer stoves with electronic ignition, the eont eork without electric. So if your power is out, no cooking. Cant be sltered, either. Will i guess anything can be altered, but not easily


Actually, the new gas ranges I have seen with the electronic ignition actually use a battery. So.....

Like these....

http://www.bensdiscountsupply.com/premier-bfk100bp-30-inch-cordless-gas-range-black-on-black.aspx


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Looks like its made of plenty of galss too


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Bill, glass like that is part of the passive solar design. They don't lose heat, they collect heat.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

mickm said:


> Its an earthship, bill. No utilitys at all, mainly heated through solar. Very, very effecient, as in dont fost a dime. Indoor greenhouse, all year around. Made out of old tires, plastic bottles and cobb.
> 
> Whst i woild like to see is how cool they can get it, when its much hot.


teehee! giggling here...wouldn't it be fun to show Bill how one of those hippy houses work haha!

love those things!


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Shows what I knows, OR DONT lol
I figured that the glass radiated heat into barrels of water that in which the heat dissapated throughout the night in warmth


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

cindilu I have a wood cookstove pretty much like the first one, it is a Copperclad. I have it outside for an outdoor kitchen/wood hottub. I dont' know much about it, all I know it was functional when it came out of the house it was in, heated very well a room about 25x15 with a high ceiling. Has been stored in a shed since. I got it for free (yay ) can't wait to fire it up! I hope the water heater tank is not leaky. Dunno.

I am really imressed with my little Waterford that is in the house. It is a small boxwood type stove with big eye on top. Nights have been 32', days 55'. The house is opened up during the day since we're running in and out fixing stuff/painting and also I'm airing it out real well. ANyway...the firebox is really small but it seems to burn the wood very efficiently. I have been gathering downed limbs and sawing them up for firewood. Abotu two and a half stove box fulls of two inch diameter pieces heats up the living room (12 x 10 with vaulted ceiling) and into the kitchen. The second box load I damp it down and there are a few little coals in the morning, very impressed! It also drafts VERY well when starting.

It is positioned just right in the house for me, in the living room with french doors to the kitchen, the bedroom is off that. I prefer having a warm room then the rest of the house is cool. When we looked at the house the renters had had the stove going 24/7 so the house was very comfortable.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

ps, forgot to say I make a fire in teh evening, do not burn during the day

I am one that puts a sweater on ha, saves a little wood


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

which Bill may have some sort of joke involving a tight sweater and wood volume bwahahahahahaha!!!


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Wyld, I knew there was a reason why I loved ya, teehee. I could make so many jokes about FBB as well and I am trying really hard to hold them all in. Just to only say he really really needs to experience a hippy house in a real way. 

Can you take a picture of your wood stove? I will google them today as well, got some behind the scene advice and the box stove is a bad decision as well. See why I come and ask ya all for advice, cuz I really do need it, lol.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

http://www.instappraisal.com/antique-appraisal/copper-clad-wood-burning-kitchen-stove

this is pretty much the one I have except it has a chrome shelf the goes on the side that says copperclad and also it doesn't have the tank (?) on the right side. I'm gone until Sunday so will have to take a picture then

mine has the chrome shelf I mean


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Oh yeah, you are coming down to my neck of the woods while I am gone, it always works that way it seems. You need to come down at a time when I am here because it would be really cool to have a back yard bbq party at a special friends house, teehee.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

I plan on coming down in June after school gets out  

rah BBQ~!!!!!!!


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

I might have to pitch a tent in the yard, teehee, if ya know what I mean.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

yes I do know what you mean


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

cindy dont get the stove from fleetfarm heard those stove cant be adjusted down on air flow very well.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

what do you want a stove for cooking or heating....cooking stoves are not heating stoves and vice versa. there are a few stoves that are sorta both but not exactly like wylds waterford and my vermont castings aspend model.but they are not for full time cooking.they are to low ro floor. most cookstoves have a small firebox on them and are not designed to heat an entire home.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

heres a new woodcook stove i would love to have now....

[youtube]XJEzM8DNqMs[/youtube]


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## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

What are your thoughts on this stove? 

http://woodstoves.net/cookstoves/bakerschoice.htm


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