# Tack: Bit or Bitless Bridle



## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

pros/cons of bitless bridle, read an about dot com forum article, but it was mostly regarding showring stuff. Any pros and cons regarding trail riding?


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

If your horse does well in it, go for it. There are a handful of horses who do not like them, you may just have to try it out.

Personally, I use snaffle bridles, but have been known to go out with a halter and lead rope if just riding trails or for fun.


----------



## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

How about neither! [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Jp2FoqX6c&playnext=1&videos=nxpgGtl3iCA[/ame]


----------



## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

My arab continued to pull through it...my arms would be locked in an "L" shape from trying to regain control of him. Seriously, no joke at all, my muscles would be locked and frozen from trying to rein him back in. I wish it had worked, but it didn't. I think this entirely depends on the horse, as well as on the level of training s/he has had. The Bitless Bridle was a joke for us, only I wasn't laughing.


----------



## ShyAnne (Jun 18, 2008)

I use bitless and love it. I agree it depends on the horse, some do very well and some dont.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

There are pros and cons to both but it's really up to the horse and how they were trained and what works best for them.


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

fetch33 said:


> How about neither! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Jp2FoqX6c&playnext=1&videos=nxpgGtl3iCA


I had to smile - nice mare, well trained, but not proof of any one trainer's godhood. I used to do very similar things on my half-Arab 40 years ago and I had certainly never heard of Pat Parelli then! I've watched him, learned some things and can see he can train a horse, but he's way too puffed up to enjoy. I quit watching him because of his attitude, not his training. I really learned a lot from watching Clinton Anderson, but I've lost interest in his attitude too. I wish good trainers would just stay good trainers and not get lost in their own hype and greed. If I watch a clinician, I want to learn things, not to be sold either the trainer or his stuff (or both). 

Well... sorry about the grumble, but will add my two bits on the bitless bridle - a very well trained horse will go well in most anything and rides off the body cues and leg much more than the bridle. However, for trail riding, use what works safely and try to be kind to your horse.


----------



## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

I would just like to add that any horse I own gets trained to the bit, wether I *personally* will be using one or not. One never knows what the future will bring, and if I ever have to sell said horse, I want him/her marketable to the broadest spectrum of possible new owners. And that means the more versatile the horse, the better choice of home I can find for him if I lose my health or income.....


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

jill.costello said:


> I would just like to add that any horse I own gets trained to the bit, wether I *personally* will be using one or not. One never knows what the future will bring, and if I ever have to sell said horse, I want him/her marketable to the broadest spectrum of possible new owners. And that means the more versatile the horse, the better choice of home I can find for him if I lose my health or income.....


Very smart!


----------



## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

GrannyCarol said:


> I had to smile - nice mare, well trained, but not proof of any one trainer's godhood. I used to do very similar things on my half-Arab 40 years ago and I had certainly never heard of Pat Parelli then! I've watched him, learned some things and can see he can train a horse, but he's way too puffed up to enjoy. I quit watching him because of his attitude, not his training. I really learned a lot from watching Clinton Anderson, but I've lost interest in his attitude too. I wish good trainers would just stay good trainers and not get lost in their own hype and greed. If I watch a clinician, I want to learn things, not to be sold either the trainer or his stuff (or both).
> 
> Well... sorry about the grumble, but will add my two bits on the bitless bridle - a very well trained horse will go well in most anything and rides off the body cues and leg much more than the bridle. However, for trail riding, use what works safely and try to be kind to your horse.


I know, I don't like Pat Parelli either. In fact, my oldest daughter broke her leg on that mare 6 years ago when she tried the stand on the back trick. I think my daughter in the vid just uses Parelli as a term for natural horsemanship.


----------



## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Good point Jill, and I agree.


----------



## bergere (May 11, 2002)

I use both Bitless and bit... depends on the day and what I want to do.

I find, using a bitless.. really depends on the horse and its previous training. 

I was taught to ride classical dressage when younger and ride mostly with my seat. Even as silly as Dyfra can get, I ride her bitless with no issues. Bitless should be ridden on a loose rein.
If I want to do some work with her or a tune up, I use her bit and ride with very light contact with her mouth.

Stjarna... lets just say she is going to need some work with the bit first. Won't put her in a bitless just yet. She was ridden for years but not trained.
She has no clue how to work off my seat cues.. or much else for that matter.

So think there is room in the World for both, just depends on many factors. If anyone wants to try going bitless.. would recommend riding in the round pen the first couple of times.


----------



## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

bergere said:


> I use both Bitless and bit... depends on the day and what I want to do.
> 
> I find, using a bitless.. really depends on the horse and its previous training.
> 
> ...


I am tempted to bring out the Bitless Bridle for Sunny, the Palomino. He neck reins an I can drop the reins and use my legs on him. I have always thought I am using to much metal in his mouth, he simply doesn't need it. 

But...my trails are not sweet smooth trails, mine are real trails, with cutoffs and steep hills, holes, any number of things a horse can get hurt on. It worries me to give up that level of control if he needs it. Maybe one time out of 50 rides he will act stupid, but I have no way of knowing which ride it will be; to me, it's insurance. On these trails, acting stupid can earn a broken leg. I am a worry wort anyhow with my guys.


----------



## ShyAnne (Jun 18, 2008)

I keep reading about level of training ....and using bitless. I trained Wrangler using bitless. I am still teaching him everything using a bitless bridle. Thats why I mentioned it depends on the horse. I think a bit can be very distracting for a horse in training, not all but some.
One benefit to using a bitless bridle is that the horse can breath properly w/out a bit in its mouth, which I like. I have noticed a huge difference in his stamina compared to other horses I ride with, I believe its due to his ability to breathe.
I am wondering about those of you that use bitless, have you noticed a difference? Wrangler is 13.2 hh and I ride with horses that are 14.2-16 hh. He is able to keep up, trots more keeping up, and doesnt even barley break a sweat during a 5 hour trail ride. The other horses I ride with are covered in sweat and are dragging by the time we are done and he is still ready to go. When we stop at the rivers to drink the other horses are very thirsty and he just takes a sip. Just observations, and being the only bitless rider I have to wonder.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ShyAnne said:


> I keep reading about level of training ....and using bitless. I trained Wrangler using bitless. I am still teaching him everything using a bitless bridle. Thats why I mentioned it depends on the horse. I think a bit can be very distracting for a horse in training, not all but some.
> One benefit to using a bitless bridle is that the horse can breath properly w/out a bit in its mouth, which I like. I have noticed a huge difference in his stamina compared to other horses I ride with, I believe its due to his ability to breathe.
> I am wondering about those of you that use bitless, have you noticed a difference? Wrangler is 13.2 hh and I ride with horses that are 14.2-16 hh. He is able to keep up, trots more keeping up, and doesnt even barley break a sweat during a 5 hour trail ride. The other horses I ride with are covered in sweat and are dragging by the time we are done and he is still ready to go. When we stop at the rivers to drink the other horses are very thirsty and he just takes a sip. Just observations, and being the only bitless rider I have to wonder.


Horses breathe primarily through their noses so I don't think a bit impacts breathing at all. Wrangler is probably just much better fit. Also...some horses just sweat much more readily than others, regardless of fitness level.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

ShyAnne, I'm going to have to disagree with you on a bit affecting breathing or stamina but I'll be more than happy to review any evidence you would like to present.


----------



## ShyAnne (Jun 18, 2008)

I will have to look again, but I had read somewhere that the open mouth effect that a bit causes does impact a horses breathing. If I find the articles I will post links.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ShyAnne said:


> I will have to look again, but I had read somewhere that the open mouth effect that a bit causes does impact a horses breathing. If I find the articles I will post links.


A horse shouldn't have his mouth open because he has a bit in it.


----------



## ShyAnne (Jun 18, 2008)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> A horse shouldn't have his mouth open because he has a bit in it.


*Shouldnt* being the key word. But when a horse is moving at a faster gait its lips seal to keep air from entering the mouth, any slight break in that seal will cause air to enter the mouth. where as with no bit in the mouth the horse is functioning as he should.

I am not trying to start a war about bit vs bitless. 

However Wrangler did come off a pasture, not trained, and barely green broke, skinny, not fed well, wormy, at 7 yrs old. That was less than 8 months ago. Yes I work with him, but I do think the bitless has an advantage this way.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

ShyAnne, the only article I can find on open mouth syndrome relating to bits is a paragraph on Dr. Robert Cooke's website selling his brand of bitless bridle but he doesn't seem to offer much by way of supporting studies.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

ShyAnne said:


> *Shouldnt* being the key word. But when a horse is moving at a faster gait its lips seal to keep air from entering the mouth, any slight break in that seal will cause air to enter the mouth. where as with no bit in the mouth the horse is functioning as he should.
> 
> I am not trying to start a war about bit vs bitless.
> 
> However Wrangler did come off a pasture, not trained, and barely green broke, skinny, not fed well, wormy, at 7 yrs old. That was less than 8 months ago. Yes I work with him, but I do think the bitless has an advantage this way.


A war?:shrug:


----------



## horselogger (Jan 9, 2004)

GrannyCarol said:


> I had to smile - nice mare, well trained, but not proof of any one trainer's godhood. I used to do very similar things on my half-Arab 40 years ago and I had certainly never heard of Pat Parelli then! I've watched him, learned some things and can see he can train a horse, but he's way too puffed up to enjoy. I quit watching him because of his attitude, not his training. I really learned a lot from watching Clinton Anderson, but I've lost interest in his attitude too. I wish good trainers would just stay good trainers and not get lost in their own hype and greed. If I watch a clinician, I want to learn things, not to be sold either the trainer or his stuff (or both).
> 
> Well... sorry about the grumble, but will add my two bits on the bitless bridle - a very well trained horse will go well in most anything and rides off the body cues and leg much more than the bridle. However, for trail riding, use what works safely and try to be kind to your horse.


oh how true....and I won't say anythingelse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I think Ray Hunt was sheer genius. I raised 2 productive adults and one work in progress with his training methods. 

Maybe we should keep that our little secret because I'd hate for the work in progress to call children's services on me again :rotfl:

Shyanne, I thought you'd been around long enough to understand the implied rules of HT horse forum. Wars are not started over bits vs bitless, leather vs synthetic or beet pulp vs calf manna. Wars are fought over, Impressive bloodlines, HYPP, TB racing, barefoot trims no matter what, my horse is sick, do you feel it would be cheaper to call the vet or just buy a new one, horse slaughter, horse slaughter ban and ErinP's secret recipe for breaded horse.


----------



## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

wr said:


> and ErinP's secret recipe for breaded horse.


Man, that one did get a bit over the top, lol.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

beccachow, who woulda thunk that breaded horse would cause that kind of controversy.


----------



## horselogger (Jan 9, 2004)

wr said:


> beccachow, who woulda thunk that breaded horse would cause that kind of controversy.


in france they just use salt and garlic...and yes it is very good!!!!!


----------



## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

sorry, wasn't trying to start a war, just wondering, as I would like to match as closely as possible how the animals (horses in this case) manage in nature, but with "we" being humans with dominion over animals, I think sometimes man is a wee bit too dominant. So I was searching for alternatives before we get horses.

I haven't ridden in several decades, city life, and would really like horses instead of our atv's. So I asked the question.


----------



## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

My horse was trained to leg pressure. No bit in her mouth.


----------



## ShyAnne (Jun 18, 2008)

wr said:


> Shyanne, I thought you'd been around long enough to understand the implied rules of HT horse forum. Wars are not started over bits vs bitless, leather vs synthetic or beet pulp vs calf manna. Wars are fought over, Impressive bloodlines, HYPP, TB racing, barefoot trims no matter what, my horse is sick, do you feel it would be cheaper to call the vet or just buy a new one, horse slaughter, horse slaughter ban and ErinP's secret recipe for breaded horse.


On forums you never know what word may/ may not trigger an argument... such as my use of the word war... I should have probably used the word disagreement or argument....etc...Surprising to me that out of everything I wrote thats what was focused on....:huh:

Here is an article for you to look at C.T.R, you may find it interesting, 
http://horsehints.org/Bits.htm
It contains some information about different types of bits as well as some advantages of bitless.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wr said:


> I think Ray Hunt was sheer genius. I raised 2 productive adults and one work in progress with his training methods.
> 
> Maybe we should keep that our little secret because I'd hate for the work in progress to call children's services on me again :rotfl:
> 
> Shyanne, I thought you'd been around long enough to understand the implied rules of HT horse forum. Wars are not started over bits vs bitless, leather vs synthetic or beet pulp vs calf manna. Wars are fought over, Impressive bloodlines, HYPP, TB racing, barefoot trims no matter what, my horse is sick, do you feel it would be cheaper to call the vet or just buy a new one, horse slaughter, horse slaughter ban and ErinP's secret recipe for breaded horse.


Ray Hunt was a genius, but don't forget the Dorrance brothers. 

You forgot to add in western pleasure pukes, and western pleasure horses in drag in your war list.


----------



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I did several clinics with Ray Hunt many years ago and he was incredible. It was also interesting that he repeatedly referred to Tom Dorrance as the person who should be thanked if someone felt they had learned from the clinics.

I hadn't seen Ray Hunt for many years, of course, but was devastated to learn of his death. Seems as if you expect some people to live forever.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Of the current crop of trainers I consider Buck Brannaman to be one of the very best- he worked with Ray Hunt and Tom Dorrance and uses their quiet "know the horse" methods. I've never been to one of his clinics but I've read a number of his books. Another I like is Mark Rashid again I've never seen him, the kid had a big show the only time he was in my area, but I've read all of his books and highly recommend them.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

SFM, I was aware that Ray Hunt credited Tom Dorrance for a great deal of his knowledge and both were amazing. 

Irish Pixie, I do agree that Buck Brannaman is quite impressive and I really enjoy his low key approach.


----------



## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

ShyAnne said:


> Here is an article for you to look at C.T.R, you may find it interesting,
> http://horsehints.org/Bits.htm
> It contains some information about different types of bits as well as some advantages of bitless.


Thanks for the link, ShyAnne, it was very informative, adding to the long list of articles and opinions I've read, this one is very detailed, almost to the point of being TMI, my head hurts :stars:


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

CrashTestRanch, I think it's very wise to do as much research as possible before you go horse shopping but I'm sure you realize that a lot of your choices will actually be decided for you by the horse.


----------



## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

wr said:


> CrashTestRanch, I think it's very wise to do as much research as possible before you go horse shopping but I'm sure you realize that a lot of your choices will *actually be decided for you by the horse*.


I would lean more towards the decisions will be made for me by the previous owner/trainer. :shrug:


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

CrashTestRanch said:


> I would lean more towards the decisions will be made for me by the previous owner/trainer. :shrug:


I could be WAY off base here but I'm pretty sure wr meant that it's kind of a case by case thing with each horse. I really don't think she advocates letting the horse make the decision for you. After all, they don't really speak English and how would you know what the horse wanted?


----------



## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> I could be WAY off base here but I'm pretty sure wr meant that it's kind of a case by case thing with each horse. I really don't think she advocates letting the horse make the decision for you. After all, they don't really speak English and how would you know what the horse wanted?


Ya, I know 

Was just taking it a little further, knowing that most of the horses I've looked at are trained already, bet 99% are bit trained. 

So now my concerns are: do I want to try and train a horse to bitless knowing I'm classified as beginner/newbie as I haven't ridden in 20+ years, or do I look for folks who have already trained their horses bitless?


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

CrashTestRanch said:


> Ya, I know
> 
> Was just taking it a little further, knowing that most of the horses I've looked at are trained already, bet 99% are bit trained.
> 
> So now my concerns are: do I want to try and train a horse to bitless knowing I'm classified as beginner/newbie as I haven't ridden in 20+ years, or do I look for folks who have already trained their horses bitless?


Honestly? I would just find a really great and safe horse and ride it the way the horse already goes well, bitless or bitted.


----------



## ShyAnne (Jun 18, 2008)

CTR, your welcome for the info, If the horse has been trained with a bit, and knows whats expected, switching to bitless is still going to depend on the horse. You will only know how well the horse will do if you try it. However if your uncomfortable trying it yourself, maybe you have someone who can do it for you.


----------



## VegRN (Jun 23, 2010)

I ride bitless, but mine are also exposed to the bit for resale reasons. My thoughts on it...there are certain things I expect my horses to do that may be beyond what most people might expect. 1) Lead with only my hand under their jaw (I never halter for day-to-day handling), 2) allow me to clean all 4 hooves with the horse loose in stall or pasture, and 3) once they are riding age, ride with halter and lead rope or simple bitless bridle (like a sidepull, not necessarily the fancy ones). 

If any of my horses have trouble with these 3 things, then I feel I have more work to do with them. My 24 year old is near perfect. My 4 year old is good on all but cleaning his hooves in the pasture, he is fine in the stall. My yearling is a work in process


----------



## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I'm with Lisa, get the horse that is perfect for you and see what he or she works well with. If you want to change things once your horse settles in, get some help to work with you and the horse. Most horses are quite versatile and will figure out what you want as they get to know you and vice versa.  

My advice to you is to be safe and have fun!


----------



## ShyAnne (Jun 18, 2008)

VegRN said:


> I ride bitless, but mine are also exposed to the bit for resale reasons. My thoughts on it...there are certain things I expect my horses to do that may be beyond what most people might expect. 1) Lead with only my hand under their jaw (I never halter for day-to-day handling), 2) allow me to clean all 4 hooves with the horse loose in stall or pasture, and 3) once they are riding age, ride with halter and lead rope or simple bitless bridle (like a sidepull, not necessarily the fancy ones).
> 
> If any of my horses have trouble with these 3 things, then I feel I have more work to do with them. My 24 year old is near perfect. My 4 year old is good on all but cleaning his hooves in the pasture, he is fine in the stall. My yearling is a work in process


I agree completely. I also dont feel the need to have to *catch* my horses. I want enough of a relationship with them that they come when they see me. Which they do. I also like that they dont need to be held when having the feet trimmed.


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

wr said:


> There are pros and cons to both but it's really up to the horse and how they were trained and what works best for them.


BINGO!

Methinks you're sorta new at all this so I'd go with a bit. _Remember - bits are sized - _ so ya gotta get one that fits your horse

I use a copper half-moon bit - one of the gentlest around - but then Leo Bill's Sunny Kate and I are one and she mostly moves by my legs and seat. 

I'd also suggest a gelded quarter horse for cows and trail in this area of the country. Or a mule - love mules!


----------



## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

Wolf mom said:


> Methinks you're sorta new at all this so I'd go with a bit. _Remember - bits are sized - _ so ya gotta get one that fits your horse
> 
> I'd also suggest a gelded quarter horse for cows and trail in this area of the country. Or a mule - love mules!


Yup, haven't riden in several decades. Military, city life and 5 kids :thumb: ...

Mule? LOL


----------

