# Need Blood Pressure Info



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Please read the entire post before commenting. I am not interested in foods to eat, foods not to eat, exercise programs, or supplements. I am trying to identify what might be causing my BP, which is usually under control, to suddenly spike into stroke territory.

My BP is normally under control with supplements and meds. The problem is sudden spikes that start in late afternoon and continue until 1 or 2 am. 

For example: BP might be around 135/75 in the morning and then over the course of the day maybe go up a little and then about sunset, BP starts a steady rise until around 10 pm it is at least 200/100. Normally I see BP drop about an hour after taking meds, but when this spike starts, BP does not respond to meds.

This is not my normal BP pattern. Normally it is a little high when I get up and then by noon it is around 125/75 and stays around there all day and evening. The spike happened 1 day last fall and then didn't happen again until Jan when it lasted for a couple of months. Then about 7 months with no spike and then a spike last evening.

All the docs I have seen treat it like BP is slowly increasing over time and that is not what is happening. Something causes a sudden spike in my BP. I wonder if it might be sunlight related? First occurrence was late Oct 2014, then Jan 2015, and now Oct 2015.

So I am trying to find a web site where there might be people with similar experience. None of the docs I have seen seem to have a clue.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Headaches will cause this problem with me. Sudden changes in air pressure is the trigger: where I live there are storm fronts weekly in the Fall, and that can set me off. First my blood pressure goes up, then the headaches start.

I have an official diagnosis of migraines, and meds to take for them, but even a MILD one-sided headache will be accompanied by high blood pressure


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Activity?

My blood pressure directly responds to lack of activity from the days before. My trouble started when I broke my ankle and was lying or sitting for hours on end. It went dangerously high and I went on a bunch of meds. Now I am almost off the meds but because I am closely monitoring the spikes and when I get them.

I don't spike if I lift heavy objects one or two days a week.  I found this after stacking hay. My spikes stopped for 5 days after. Now I have to lift weights every couple of days. Cardio does not solve the spikes for me.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

After 2 days of extremely high spikes, bp is back to normal. In fact today, bp has been so low I had to skip 1 dose of my med. Sure wish I could figure out what triggers this.


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## NEfarmgirl (Jan 27, 2009)

If I am sick or have pain somewhere my bp will take off. Spikes can also be caused by kidney issues(I experienced this and when my kidneys started working properly ky bp went back to normal) thyroid issues and adrenal gland issues. If something is out of whack it may cause your bp to raise and then fall back to normal. Stress can cause it to go up suddenly too. There are quite a few causes so I would question the doctor to rule things out for sure before dismissing it.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

BP stayed down for 2 days and then spiked even higher for several days now. Already up to 181/95 at 8 am this morning about 1 1/2 hour after taking meds. If I can't get it under control and it goes much higher, looks like a trip to ER.

No change in diet or activity or sleep, just this sudden increase in BP. Heart rate and blood glucose are good.


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## GAZZA (Apr 16, 2015)

Hi moonriver. Try going off your BP meds for 3 or 4 days and see what happens. Seven years ago I was experiencing the same symptoms as you with my BP. It would spike after taking the meds and 3 to 4 hours later it would be down to 90/65 which made me feel ill for 2 to 3 hours. I went to a BP clinic and they lowered the dosage, on a trial for 2 weeks to see what happened. My blood pressure stabilized to around 130/75-85. It took 2 years and now do not take any BP medication. Checked my BP last night, 139/79, not bad for a 70 year old.

Wylie


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

GAZZA said:


> Hi moonriver. Try going off your BP meds for 3 or 4 days and see what happens. Seven years ago I was experiencing the same symptoms as you with my BP. It would spike after taking the meds and 3 to 4 hours later it would be down to 90/65 which made me feel ill for 2 to 3 hours. I went to a BP clinic and they lowered the dosage, on a trial for 2 weeks to see what happened. My blood pressure stabilized to around 130/75-85. It took 2 years and now do not take any BP medication. Checked my BP last night, 139/79, not bad for a 70 year old.
> 
> Wylie


My systolic dropped about 70 points in 3 hours today. Something is definitely out of whack. What has happened in the past is BP starts out a little high and then goes through the roof in the evening. Today was just the opposite.

The main med I take works on the brain and works within an hour, so I usually take it as I need it. When these spikes start, I add 2 more meds but they all seem to have minimal effect. I'm thinking this is a circadian rhythm type of event based on moving from lots of sun to much less. 

I fasted today and am going to try to fast tomorrow and see if that helps.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

This is the weirdness that is my blood pressure.

Yesterday 6:30 am 167/97
Today 7:00 am 119/67


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## NEfarmgirl (Jan 27, 2009)

Maybe you need a different type of blood pressure medication, or a different med?


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Could be diet. Retaining water can make your BP go up. Salt can make you retain water (think pop), also grapes. Did you eat something different?


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

MoonRiver said:


> This is the weirdness that is my blood pressure.
> 
> Yesterday 6:30 am 167/97
> Today 7:00 am 119/67


That is VERY weird!!!!!!!!!! Might your cuff be not working correctly? You can also take your B/P at most drug stores when you are in town! I assume that you do not take it right after exercising.

 I would talk to you doctor about this, I am afraid. I am stumped.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Do a search of...extreme blood pressure fluctuations....and that ought to get you somewhere. Appears Brits are using calcium channel blockers rather than beta blockers to stabilze BP's.

Mon


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

frogmammy said:


> Do a search of...extreme blood pressure fluctuations....and that ought to get you somewhere. Appears Brits are using calcium channel blockers rather than beta blockers to stabilze BP's.
> 
> Mon


Thank you Mon. That is exactly the information I need. One of the 4 meds my doctors have prescribed is a cca. Over the summer, I was able to reduce my meds down to 1 and just a few days ago, when the spike started, added the cca back in. So I'm taking 2 meds now. I think I will take the max dose of the ccb and see if I can back off the other med a little.

I'm starting my 4th day of fasting and my BP was below 120/80 almost the entire day yesterday. In fact it was so low, I had no energy and had to take a nap. Fasting seems to be reducing inflammation in a huge way. 

ETA: Two of the side effects of ccb's are fatigue and weakness. Maybe I just need to greatly increase magnesium. A magnesium shot always brings my bp down.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Do you take Co-enzyme Q-10? If Mg tends to stabilize your BP, then maybe conductivity is an issue.

What I saw (briefly) was that a Beta Blocker would tend to destabilize BP in someone with your problem. I may have read that wrong, just something to check.

Mon


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

frogmammy said:


> Do you take Co-enzyme Q-10? If Mg tends to stabilize your BP, then maybe conductivity is an issue.
> 
> What I saw (briefly) was that a Beta Blocker would tend to destabilize BP in someone with your problem. I may have read that wrong, just something to check.
> 
> Mon


The only med I was taking was clonidine which is not a beta blocker. When I had the spike I added Norvasc which is a ccb. When that didn't work, I added atenolol which is a beta blocker, but I added the lowest dosage possible. Haven't needed it for the last couple of days.

I am going to see if I add a low dosage of the ccb, if I can reduce the dosage of clonidine. Clonidine can be hard to get off of, so it would be great if I could reduce the dosage a little.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> All the docs I have seen treat it like BP is slowly increasing over time and that is not what is happening.


You might try Mg if you don't already take it. It helps to calm the blood vessels.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

mekasmom said:


> You might try Mg if you don't already take it. It helps to calm the blood vessels.


There is something called magnesium oil which I think works better than oral magnesium. I find rubbing it on the bottom of my feet is the most effective way to use it. It's almost impossible to get enough magnesium to make a difference orally.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

By fasting, my bp has dropped so much I had to reduce my meds quite a bit. My bp dropped below 100/65, so I had to skip a couple of pills.


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## Mike CHS (Apr 3, 2011)

MoonRiver - are you taking any cholesterol lowering meds? I was talked in to using several statin meds last year and found those things were not for me. Any heavy activity would cause a host of problems including major blood pressure swings.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Mike CHS said:


> MoonRiver - are you taking any cholesterol lowering meds? I was talked in to using several statin meds last year and found those things were not for me. Any heavy activity would cause a host of problems including major blood pressure swings.


No and nothing changed.

What's really strange is I ended my fast at noon yesterday and bp stayed down all day. It was a little higher this morning and has gone up quite a bit since then. That wouldn't be good if I have to stay on a fast to get my bp under control!


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> There is something called magnesium oil which I think works better than oral magnesium. I find rubbing it on the bottom of my feet is the most effective way to use it. It's almost impossible to get enough magnesium to make a difference orally.


I've never heard of it. Where do you get it? Is it an essential oil type thing?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

mekasmom said:


> I've never heard of it. Where do you get it? Is it an essential oil type thing?


I got it on Amazon. It's magnesium chloride and water, but it feels like an oil. I bought the Swanson brand.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> My systolic dropped about 70 points in 3 hours today. Something is definitely out of whack. What has happened in the past is BP starts out a little high and then goes through the roof in the evening. Today was just the opposite.


Do you drink a lot of "diet" sodas or any other product with artificial sweeteners in them? I'm just curious.

I have had hypertension for years and years and years..... since I was a teen. And during the last few years I have had 3 strokes even though I am on over 10 bp meds. The naturopath that I ended up seeing says it is the artifical sweetener.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

mekasmom said:


> Do you drink a lot of "diet" sodas or any other product with artificial sweeteners in them? I'm just curious.
> 
> I have had hypertension for years and years and years..... since I was a teen. And during the last few years I have had 3 strokes even though I am on over 10 bp meds. The naturopath that I ended up seeing says it is the artifical sweetener.


I do, but what happens is my bp is fine for months and then one day it spikes real high.

Right now, I have starting taking a low dose of a ccb in the morning and then 2/3 of the dose of clonidine I was taking. My BP is staying under control all day and is even OK first thing in the morning. I could probably cut back on the clonidine even more, but I need to taper off slowly to avoid nasty withdrawal effects.

Have you read either of Dr Sinatra's books? He has one on heart disease and one on hypertension. I think you could take supplements and hopefully cut back on some of the prescription drugs.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

You might try bringing your doc a record of your B/P's that show how much It is fluctuating. 

I Is supposed to go up when you re exercising not when you are just walking around.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

MoonRiver said:


> After 2 days of extremely high spikes, bp is back to normal. In fact today, bp has been so low I had to skip 1 dose of my med. Sure wish I could figure out what triggers this.


I have had three strokes from hypertension.... much higher than yours. I take digoxin, carevedilol, diltiazem, lisinopril, lasix. hypochorithiazie, doxazosin, sprionolactone, cumidin, and Lord only knows what else that I can't remember. The only thing I do know is that a lot of high bp is caused by the kidneys not purring out urine quickly enough which raises bp just due to blood volume. Some people have heart failure that causes this, and other , like me, just don't pukt out enough urine quickly enough. That is why diabetics seem to have so many strokes. Their kidneys let the blood volume get too high which raises the pressure causing strokes. Check your bp early in the day vs afternoon and night. Do this several times. The times you see the high bp spikes will help you deduct the possible problem. High bp in the morning and early day might be sleep apnea. Later in the day, after you consume beverages all day could be the kidneys or BMP. The time of day your bp spikes will give you ideas of the cause. And there is a genetic component too. Does hypertension run in your family? Is there a lot of DM in your family? Those are all factors.

And like I said, Dr Klassen, then naturopath swers it is aspartame relate?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

mekasmom said:


> I have had three strokes from hypertension.... much higher than yours. I take digoxin, carevedilol, diltiazem, lisinopril, lasix. hypochorithiazie, doxazosin, sprionolactone, cumidin, and Lord only knows what else that I can't remember. The only thing I do know is that a lot of high bp is caused by the kidneys not purring out urine quickly enough which raises bp just due to blood volume. Some people have heart failure that causes this, and other , like me, just don't pukt out enough urine quickly enough. That is why diabetics seem to have so many strokes. Their kidneys let the blood volume get too high which raises the pressure causing strokes. Check your bp early in the day vs afternoon and night. Do this several times. The times you see the high bp spikes will help you deduct the possible problem. High bp in the morning and early day might be sleep apnea. Later in the day, after you consume beverages all day could be the kidneys or BMP. The time of day your bp spikes will give you ideas of the cause. And there is a genetic component too. Does hypertension run in your family? Is there a lot of DM in your family? Those are all factors.
> 
> And like I said, Dr Klassen, then naturopath swers it is aspartame relate?


Mine would start to spike about 2 hours before sunset and then continue to rise until about midnight. BP would be under 135/85 until late in the day and then jump to something like 170/90 and then just keep going up hour after hour until somewhere around 220/110. 

The problem I ran into was when I went to doctor during the day, bp was under control. When I went to ER, they put me in a bed (after waiting in waiting room for several hours) and by then bp was starting to come back down. I did have the spike one day at my doctor's office and it scared the heck out of doctor and nurse. 

One thing I did last winter, when this hit me for about 6 weeks, was to get as much sun as possible and ground myself. I have a greenhouse I use for me, not plants. On cold winter days, I would sit in the greenhouse for at least an hour with my shoes off and ground my feet. This would bring my bp down substantially for a few hours. Riding my exercise bike and meditation also seemed to help a little. Deep breathing also helped.


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## tlrnnp67 (Nov 5, 2006)

You need to be screened for pheochromocytoma, an adrenal tumor (usually benign). Swings like that occur in 50% of patients.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/124059-overview


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

tlrnnp67 said:


> You need to be screened for pheochromocytoma, an adrenal tumor (usually benign). Swings like that occur in 50% of patients.


I did a 24 hr urine test which was normal.


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## barefootyankee (Apr 4, 2011)

See if this site helps you sort it out -- http://www.netwellness.org/question.cfm/69991.htm


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

No problem with BP for over a month and then yesterday it spiked again. At 2 pm it was about 120/70 and then about 5 pm started going up and didn't respond to meds. Very high this morning compared to what it normally is in the morning. Systolic was about 30 points higher than normal.

I know tricks which hopefully will manage it most of the day; but, based on past experience, it was start it's climb around 4 or 5 pm and skyrocket by 10 pm. The question is will this be a 2 or 3 day problem like last month, or a 2 month problem like last winter, or worse.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Can you give a list of your blood pressures to your doc, complete it times, so he can SEE how SUDDENLY it shoots up?????


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Terri said:


> Can you give a list of your blood pressures to your doc, complete it times, so he can SEE how SUDDENLY it shoots up?????


I did that last winter. Unfortunately, like most docs, one she has tried a few things and they don't work, she loses interest.

As soon as my body tells me it's ready, I'm going to try fasting again and see if that helps.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Fortunately, looks like this was a 2 day event. Late last evening, my bp suddenly dropped back to normal. Normal when I got up this morning. 

My body is reacting to something, but it doesn't appear to be food. I haven't eaten anything lately I don't eat on a regular basis.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Made it almost a month before BP spiked again. It was headed into the scary zone (110/190) about 6 pm last night, so I just loaded up with meds and supplements and went to bed early. When it's that high at 6 pm, it keeps going up until midnight or a little later. 

Still high this morning, although not as high as last evening.

Going to try fasting today or at least cut back to 1 meal. Also took a diuretic, which I rarely use. I have some prostate problems, so diuretics are not recommended, even though it doesn't seem to stop doctors from prescribing them.

Today is the first really cold day we have had in quite a while. I wonder if the cold in combination with lower light days are what triggers it. Going to do 30 minutes with my "sun" lamp this morning. Lots of brain activities key off of light cycles.


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

What is your Vit. D level? I don't think Medicare covers this test but they are finding out so much more that Vit. D influences our health.


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## eXo0us (Nov 14, 2015)

Discussing Blood-pressure without the* Height and Weight and Age* is pretty pointless. 
This is so 80s. There is no one size fits all with blood pressure. 
One example: If you are taller then average you will have a higher blood pressure. This is no problem since all your systems are bigger. 

Young people have a different blood-pressure then old one. That's normal - but the doctors dictate that only 120-90 is good - why ? They want to sell medication - that's what a "Doctor of Medicine" does (the full title of a PhD. MD)

How do you feel with the higher blood-pressure ? Headache ? Sweat ?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

light rain said:


> What is your Vit. D level? I don't think Medicare covers this test but they are finding out so much more that Vit. D influences our health.


I try to keep it about 70, but haven't tested for a while. I'm sure it is above 50.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

eXo0us said:


> Discussing Blood-pressure without the* Height and Weight and Age* is pretty pointless.
> This is so 80s. There is no one size fits all with blood pressure.
> One example: If you are taller then average you will have a higher blood pressure. This is no problem since all your systems are bigger.
> 
> ...


It may be relative, but relative to what it normally is, it is about 80/40 points higher. BP will be normal for weeks and then suddenly spike to stroke level. So far this fall and winter, it has only lasted for 1 or 2 days before returning to normal. Last winter it lasted for over 2 months at dangerously high levels. BP meds seem to have limited effect.

Some organ or system seems to be malfunctioning. It appears to be related to light cycles and possibly cold. This has never happened during the warm, high light months.


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## eXo0us (Nov 14, 2015)

You just mentioned cold. What kind of tool to you use to measure your blood pressure ? Do you ever checked it against a calibrated one ? Or at least with another person during the high periods ? I've seen going people mad because they were chasing an illness and only the tool was malfunctioning.

That's what my last question is about - what do you feel while the pressure is high ? Do you feel the difference ? 

I'm on the other side of BP issues, my is general low and during exercise high to very high. So I'm kinda interested how high pressure feels during idle.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

eXo0us said:


> You just mentioned cold. What kind of tool to you use to measure your blood pressure ? Do you ever checked it against a calibrated one ? Or at least with another person during the high periods ? I've seen going people mad because they were chasing an illness and only the tool was malfunctioning.
> 
> That's what my last question is about - what do you feel while the pressure is high ? Do you feel the difference ?
> 
> I'm on the other side of BP issues, my is general low and during exercise high to very high. So I'm kinda interested how high pressure feels during idle.


I have been using 2 meters recently. One is consistently lower than the other, but I use it for consistency. For example, this morning I got a reading on 1 that had the diastolic over 20 points higher than the other. I knew one or the other was a bad reading, so retested and got consistent readings.

I think this episode may be over. This afternoon, my bp dropped from about 145/95 to 115/65 in a little over an hour. That's how the last 2 episodes ended. Whatever is causing the spike suddenly stops and all the meds kick in causing low bp.

It's time for one of my meds, so I will retest bp. Hope this is over with.

Actually, I usually feel great when my BP spikes. If it lasts for more than a couple of days, I will start getting a headache and will also get heartburn. (I've been tested and it really is heartburn and not heart related). The heartburn is likely because I increase meds to max dosage.


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## eXo0us (Nov 14, 2015)

That interesting, with low blood pressure, you feel dizzy and loose color vision when you get up. Everything is getting black and white. 

Do you write a food log ? I used https://www.myfitnesspal.com/ for a while and it's really easy.

I discovered that my low blood pressure is sometimes linked to food which I had eaten 5-7 days earlier. So incredible difficult to get the connection. 
Took me years to see the pattern. 

I mean normally I can not remember what I did eat yesterday - but even harder to think about what I did eat a week ago a lunch. 
So I replaced regular Potatoes with Sweet and removed Pasta and Bread from my Diet. Been fine ever since.


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## MattB4 (Jan 3, 2016)

Not knowing your weight but reading through the lines concerning your fasting and other comments on irregular eating it almost sounds like your problem is a poor diet. You might need to establish a practice of eating normally several small meals a day. Eating healthy does not take eating some weird popular health food diet. It simply means to ensure eating enough to get necessary nutrients.


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## eXo0us (Nov 14, 2015)

MattB4 said:


> Not knowing your weight but reading through the lines concerning your fasting and other comments on irregular eating it almost sounds like your problem is a poor diet. You might need to establish a practice of eating normally several small meals a day. Eating healthy does not take eating some weird popular health food diet. It simply means to ensure eating enough to get necessary nutrients.


so true, most health problems are directly or indirectly linked to diet. 

If you never did a food log, just try it. Don't change anything just write down what are you doing. You will be surprised how much junk accumulates over even only a month. I was thinking - I had Pizza once a month. Yet the logbook showed me that it was 4x Pizzas = 8 Meals from 60 Meals which are total.

For good health you have to get 80-90% of your meals - clean and nutrient rich. Just eat real food (everything without a label) and time your meals right. - Search for Bio-rhythm


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