# Scott Yenor: Protests Held At Boise State After Professor Says At Conference That Men, Not Women, Should Be Recruited Into Fields Like Medicine & Law



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

> Hundreds of protestors demonstrated at Boise State University in Idaho over the weekend following comments made at a conference by a professor who said men should be prioritized for fields of study such as engineering, medicine and law.
> 
> BSU political science professor Scott Yenor made disparaging remarks about women and spoke critically of feminism at the National Conservatism Conference in Orlando, Florida, on October 31 in a speech titled "The Family Form that Nations Need."
> 
> ...


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

The guy makes a lotta sense. Evidenced by how upset the lefties got!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

If he recruits men, is that "making special efforts to recruit MEN into fields where they don't seem to want to be"? More than half of the medical students are now women, by the way. So how does he figure that women do not seem to be interested in medicine?

Wait for it..... he will back down and apologize.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Doubtful.
It’s Boise State.
Huge Evangelical and LDS student population…huge.
He is preaching to the choir.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

He's still mad that his mommy didn't breast feed him long enough.

He would fit in well in a Muslim country that practices Sharia law.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Tom Horn wins the prize for longest thread title.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

So, because he is a male professor, he isn't allowed to have an opinion?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, because he is a male professor, he isn't allowed to have an opinion?


Who said that?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

I don't think that people should be recruited based on gender or race.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, because he is a male professor, he isn't allowed to have an opinion?


Is him being a male the only thing that you got out of that? Any man or woman has a right to express their opinions about whatever they want and any other people have a right to agree with or to protest against those opinions. 

Regardless of the professor's own gender, what do YOU think of the professor's gender-biased opinions that he expressed? Agree or disagree? That's what's important.

.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> So, because he is a male professor, he isn't allowed to have an opinion?


Of course he is allowed to have an opinion. But the university that should have fired him for alienating half of their potential students.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nah, he should be stranded on a dessert island with nothing but women so he can see how well they can engineer, heal and lay down the law. He would change his mind. 

My father had way more girls than boys. My oldest brother didn't like the work. I was younger and willing but not really able. My sister's (some of them) took the place of the boys in the family business. I passed them eventually but only because they find other interests. But I would take those sisters and build you one hell of a house any day. 

My wife can cut rafters or build cabinets. Crown mold or hang doors. She wanted to learn so I taught her. She didn't like her job so she went to work with me for ten years. 

I've seen guys like this my whole life. They are usually more worried about their own manhood so they have to vent to compensate. Feel sorry for his masculinity being challenged because he obviously can't compete with males so he has to gain "approval" by picking on females.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

mreynolds said:


> Nah, he should be stranded on a dessert island with nothing but women so he can see how well they can engineer, heal and lay down the law. He would change his mind


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Where is this dessert island you speak of? 😁


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

gilberte said:


> Where is this dessert island you speak of? 😁


I meant to type desert 🏜. Once again my autocorrect has a dirty mind.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Stupid speelchick.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

GTX63 said:


> Stupid speelchick.


*The man that invented spell check died today*

May he rust in piss

*A guy texts his neighbor...*

A guy sends a text to his next-door neighbor:

‟Bob, I am sorry. I've been riddled with guilt and I have to confess: I have been helping myself to your wife when you're not around, probably more than you. I know it's no excuse but I don't get it at home. I can't live with the guilt any longer. I hope you will accept my sincerest apology. It won't happen again.”

Feeling outrage and betrayed, Bob grabs his gun, goes into the bedroom, and without a word, shoots his wife.

Moments later the guy gets a second text: ‟Really should use spell check! That should be Wi-Fi‟.”


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Danaus29 said:


> Of course he is allowed to have an opinion. But the university that should have fired him for alienating half of their potential students.


So he has the right to an opinion, but he should be fired because he voiced that opinion. He didn't say that women shouldn't go into those fields, or that they wouldn't be any good at those skills. He said they shouldn't be talked into the field unless they really wanted to do that particular thing.

Perception is often more important than reality.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> So he has the right to an opinion, but he should be fired because he voiced that opinion. He didn't say that women shouldn't go into those fields, or that they wouldn't be any good at those skills. He said they shouldn't be talked into the field unless they really wanted to do that particular thing.
> 
> Perception is often more important than reality.


If his female students or prospective students have the perception that he is not as interested in helping them as he is in helping male students and enrollment falls off, then yeah, perception is important.
It kind of a stupid thing for him to say given where we are but he had every right to say it.
And the school has every right to penalize him for saying it.
Im tired of people bleating about freedom of speech when they don’t want to take responsibility for their speech.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Here’s some more of this complete troglodyte.



https://www.idahostatesman.com/opinion/editorials/article256266972.html


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> It kind of a stupid thing for him to say given where we are but he had every right to say it.
> And the school has every right to penalize him for saying it.


Even if he was right?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I’m not happy about my tax dollars being used to pay him.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

muleskinner2 said:


> Even if he was right?


Even if he was right? 
hes stating an opinion, not a fact.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’m not happy about my tax dollars being used to pay him.


You have every right to be unhappy about it, and he has the right to say what he believes to be true. If we only associated with, or did business with people who we agreed with or liked, not much would get done.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> Even if he was right?
> hes stating an opinion, not a fact.


A fairly valid opinion in many cases.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> So he has the right to an opinion, but he should be fired because he voiced that opinion. He didn't say that women shouldn't go into those fields, or that they wouldn't be any good at those skills. He said they shouldn't be talked into the field unless they really wanted to do that particular thing.
> 
> Perception is often more important than reality.


Maybe he should have said no one should be talked into any particular field of study instead of saying women only.

Perception is important. When you take that statement and add it to the rest of his "stay home and make babies" comments it gives a listener the perception that he doesn't believe women should have jobs outside the home, no matter what.

Many people get fired for being a poor representative of their employer. It is the employer's right to fire employees who are a bad reflection of the employers values. 

If he had flipped the roles and said men should stay home and raise babies while women held the good paying technology jobs a lot of you men would have been up in arms.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> If his female students or prospective students have the perception that he is not as interested in helping them as he is in helping male students and enrollment falls off, then yeah, perception is important.
> It kind of a stupid thing for him to say given where we are but he had every right to say it.
> And the school has every right to penalize him for saying it.
> *Im tired of people bleating about freedom of speech when they don’t want to take responsibility for their speech*.


Interesting how the voicing of one's opinion in the United States of America is viewed as a capital offense by those who disagree with it.

Hope your trunk is able to hold all of the rocks you wish to haul to Boise for the public stoning.

"The difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter depends upon which side you find yourself on."


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Before I make judgement I would like to see the whole talk. Due to the title of the talk "The Family Form that Nations Need " I am guessing he is promoting woman staying at home instead feeling like they have to be pushed in a career. 
If that is the case then I have to somewhat agree with him. I think to get this nation back on track we mothers need to make raising our kids our #1 priority. Saying that it would be well for us woman to have some kind of career to fall back on if our marriage does not work out or if the husband dies.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

muleskinner2 said:


> So he has the right to an opinion, but he should be fired because he voiced that opinion. He didn't say that women shouldn't go into those fields, or that they wouldn't be any good at those skills. He said they shouldn't be talked into the field unless they really wanted to do that particular thing.
> 
> Perception is often more important than reality.


IMHO there is nothing wrong with holding a traditional man/woman societal role ideal. Why should young women be brow beaten by bitter resentful unfulfilled individuals to seek nontraditional work positions just to prove a radical viewpoint?



> In response to the attention the video received recently on social media, Yenor said on Twitter that "making special efforts to recruit women into fields where they don't seem to want to be" should be stopped, and he denied wanting to prevent women from obtaining those professions.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Tom Horn said:


> Interesting how the voicing of one's opinion in the United States of America is viewed as a capital offense by those who disagree with it.
> 
> Hope your trunk is able to hold all of the rocks you wish to haul to Boise for the public stoning.
> 
> "The difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter depends upon which side you find yourself on."


More interesting how your dislike of me makes you read all kinds of weird things into what I said.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> More interesting how your dislike of me makes you read all kinds of weird things into what I said.


It doesn't take a magnifying glass to see your obvious contempt for men you disagree with.

When you choose derision in referring to someone, calling a spade a spade is an observation, not a personal attack.



Lisa in WA said:


> If his female students or prospective students have the perception that he is not as interested in helping them as he is in helping male students and enrollment falls off, then yeah, perception is important.
> *It kind of a stupid thing for him to say* given where we are but he had every right to say it.
> And the school has every right to penalize him for saying it.
> Im tired of people bleating about freedom of speech when they don’t want to take responsibility for their speech.





Lisa in WA said:


> *Here’s some more of this complete troglodyte.*
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.idahostatesman.com/opinion/editorials/article256266972.html


If you don't wish to reap the whirlwind, don't sow the wind.

Back atcha.



Lisa in WA said:


> Im tired of people bleating about freedom of speech *when they don’t want to take responsibility for their speech.*


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Tom Horn said:


> It doesn't take a magnifying glass to see your obvious contempt for men you disagree with.
> 
> When you choose derision in referring to someone, calling a spade a spade is an observation, not a personal attack.
> 
> ...


Good grief….what a drama queen you are. 
🙄 
Whirlwind…😂


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

It will be 'interesting' to see how all the feminazis react when Islam takes over...................


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> Good grief….what a drama queen you are.
> 🙄
> Whirlwind…😂


Classic gaslighter.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Terri said:


> If he recruits men, is that "making special efforts to recruit MEN into fields where they don't seem to want to be"? More than half of the medical students are now women, by the way. So how does he figure that women do not seem to be interested in medicine?
> 
> Wait for it..... he will back down and apologize.


I have two female friends who were talked into going into medicine. One woman is black, so she had extra pressure put on her.

Both of my friends wish they had never become doctors. They weren't/aren't suited for it, and they feel they were collateral damage to someone else's agenda.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

If you want to waste 15 minutes of your life to listen to the whole speech, here it is. What a disgusting individual he is. I need a shower after listening to this garbage.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> If you want to waste 15 minutes of your life to listen to the whole speech, here it is. What a disgusting individual he is. I need a shower after listening to this garbage.


Thank you! Listened to it in its entirety puts it in much better context. Outstanding thinking on his part! So very spot on!


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Thank you! Listened to it in its entirety puts it in much better context. Outstanding thinking on his part! So very spot on!


How unsurprising that you believe this misogynist who fears strong, independent women to be an "outstanding" thinker.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> How unsurprising that you believe this misogynist who fears strong, independent women to be an "outstanding" thinker.


Not misogynist, just sees the bigger picture. Why are you so afraid of strong families?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> How unsurprising that you believe this misogynist who fears strong, independent women to be an "outstanding" thinker.


You have to wonder how many men who agree with this creature have working wives and/or are divorced.
I guess independence and individualism is only for people with penises.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Lisa in WA said:


> You have to wonder how many men who agree with this creature have working wives and/or are divorced.
> I guess independence and individualism is only for people with penises.


Apparently for him it is. His ideology is straight out of the 1950s. I think my favorite part was "Wouldn't it be great if all Nobel Prize winners were men?" Apparently this nitwit believes the penis is linked to the brain. 

I think it would be a good idea for the university to take a look at the grades of the women vs the men who take his course. I doubt that someone such as he could be objective in his grading since he believes women are only fit for housework and wiping noses.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> You have to wonder how many men who agree with this creature have working wives and/or are divorced.
> I guess independence and individualism is only for people with penises.


You apparently missed his message, it’s not about independence and individualism in either gender…. It’s about the need to have solid strong marriages and families for a strong nation.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> You apparently missed his message, it’s not about independence and individualism in either gender…. It’s about the need to have solid strong marriages and families for a strong nation.


You apparently missed his message. It was about decrying the strong, independent women. Women, in his opinion, are not to be independent -- that's for men. Women are not, in his opinion, supposed to be put off marriage and pregnancy. Women are not, in his opinion, to focus on their careers -- their role is to be housewives & mothers. Did you miss the part where he expresses how wonderful it would be if only men were awarded the Nobel Prize? Apparently he thinks only men can be intelligent and accomplished & marriages/families can only be strong if the woman is weak and dependent. He's an idiot.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> You apparently missed his message. It was about decrying the strong, independent women. Women, in his opinion, are not to be independent -- that's for men. Women are not, in his opinion, supposed to be put off marriage and pregnancy. Women are not, in his opinion, to focus on their careers -- their role is to be housewives & mothers. Did you miss the part where he expresses how wonderful it would be if only men were awarded the Nobel Prize? Apparently he thinks only men can be intelligent and accomplished & marriages/families can only be strong if the woman is weak and dependent. He's an idiot.


His message was all about strong families, each parent doing their part to achieve said goals. Women happen to be best suited to being mothers, men doing their part as well. Again, why do you hate the family concept so much?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> You apparently missed his message. It was about decrying the strong, independent women. Women, in his opinion, are not to be independent -- that's for men. Women are not, in his opinion, supposed to be put off marriage and pregnancy. Women are not, in his opinion, to focus on their careers -- their role is to be housewives & mothers. Did you miss the part where he expresses how wonderful it would be if only men were awarded the Nobel Prize? Apparently he thinks only men can be intelligent and accomplished & marriages/families can only be strong if the woman is weak and dependent. He's an idiot.


Men who think like that always seem to be pudgy, nonmasculine, and unhappy/unsuccessful with their lives and careers. Threatened by successful women.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> Men who think like that always seem to be pudgy, nonmasculine, and unhappy/unsuccessful with their lives and careers. Threatened by successful women.


Bwaaahahaha!!


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> If you want to waste 15 minutes of your life to listen to the whole speech, here it is. What a disgusting individual he is. I need a shower after listening to this garbage.


I listened to it and I tend to agree that emasculating men and pushing girls to believe that they can have their cake and eat it too has led to a rending of the fabric of our society.

It is impossible to be in a committed relationship and be independent at the same time, that is why feminists hate men, committed relationships and children.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> His message was all about strong families, each parent doing their part to achieve said goals. Women happen to be best suited to being mothers, men doing their part as well. Again, why do you hate the family concept so much?


His message was about making women into nothing more than Stepford wives. His message was how men should be celebrated and women should be relegated to being housewives.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> His message was about making women into nothing more than Stepford wives. His message was how men should be celebrated and women should be relegated to being housewives.


It does appeal to men who are losers. They need to feel like they aren’t the bottom of the pecking order.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> I listened to it and I tend to agree that emasculating men and pushing girls to believe that they can have their cake and eat it too has led to a rending of the fabric of our society.
> 
> It is impossible to be in a committed relationship and be independent at the same time, that is why feminists hate men, committed relationships and children.


You are 100% wrong. It is quite easy to be in a committed relationship and be independent. Nor do feminists "hate men, committed relationships and children".


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are 100% wrong. It is quite easy to be in a committed relationship and be independent. Nor do feminists "hate men, committed relationships and children".


That statement flies in the face of personal experience.

And after having read the diatribes of several here.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> That statement flies in the face of personal experience.
> 
> And after having read the diatribes of several here.


Maybe the problem is you.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Interesting, I come from a large family where nearly all the women worked, from my grandmothers on. They did just fine having children and careers but the way it worked the men, strong men, were as involved in raising the kids as they were. I don't think any had there masculinity threatened by being there for diapers, feedings and housework. If someone would have said anything to them about their being part of child rearing they would IMO kicked some butt.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

no really said:


> Interesting, I come from a large family where nearly all the women worked, from my grandmothers on. They did just fine having children and careers but the way it worked the men, strong men, were as involved in raising the kids as they were. I don't think any had there masculinity threatened by being there for diapers, feedings and housework. If someone would have said anything to them about their being part of child rearing they would IMO kicked some butt.


Absolutely. There is no good reason why men can't be involved in housework & diapers, etc. just as much as women are. Just like there is no good reason why women can't have a career just like men do. Strong, independent men & strong, independent women make for strong, healthy relationships.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> You have to wonder how many men who agree with this creature have working wives and/or are divorced.
> I guess independence and individualism is only for people with penises.


What does employment or marital status have to do with it?

Having a wife who works and views her earnings as her personal property is counterproductive to both financial stability and marital harmony.

If the woman divorces (dumps) the man so that she can cat around and live a self-indulgent lifestyle after the man has helped her by providing a stable environment while she gets an education and subsequently a decent job, in no way reflects negatively on the man. 

That is unless one is a brainwashed feminazi.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> What does employment or marital status have to do with it?
> 
> Having a wife who works and views her earnings as her personal property is counterproductive to both financial stability and marital harmony.
> 
> ...


You mean like all those men whose wives have worked to put them through school and then, the minute he gets his degree, he dumps her so he can "cat around and live a self-indulgent lifestyle"?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> His ideology is straight out of the 1950s.


wasn’t that the era that we emerged as a world super power? Very strong nation with strong family values, not prone to killing babies etc. could be the 50s weren’t all that bad for most.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> wasn’t that the era that we emerged as a world super power? Very strong nation with strong family values, not prone to killing babies etc. could be the 50s weren’t all that bad for most.


Those 1950s that you want to return to were plenty bad for women. People of color and homosexual folks got a pretty raw deal too.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Those 1950s that you want to return to were plenty bad for women. People of color and homosexual folks got a pretty raw deal too.


So you say. All of those folks enjoyed the strong economic times, the security that comes from being the strongest nation the world has ever witnessed.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> So you say. All of those folks enjoyed the strong economic times, the security that comes from being the strongest nation the world has ever witnessed.


So says history and the facts. It's not very enjoyable to be a second class citizen without rights within your own country.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> So says history and the facts. It's not very enjoyable to be a second class citizen without rights within your own country.


Yep, history and facts all point to the best and strongest times we’ve ever witnessed.
id say more enjoyable than living with same rights during the Great Depression.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Yep, history and facts all point to the best and strongest times we’ve ever witnessed.


Sad that you think times where women, people of color and homosexual people had no rights were the best times. Not unexpected but sad nonetheless.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

no really said:


> Interesting, I come from a large family where nearly all the women worked, from my grandmothers on. They did just fine having children and careers but the way it worked the men, strong men, were as involved in raising the kids as they were. I don't think any had there masculinity threatened by being there for diapers, feedings and housework. If someone would have said anything to them about their being part of child rearing they would IMO kicked some butt.


The thing that seems to be missing from the conversation is that strong families do what it takes to maintain family unit cohesion. 

Sadly, there are not many strong families due to there being too many fairy tale options foisted upon families by social manipulators.

Far too much about me first and too little emphasis on self-sacrifice for the good of the family.

John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Sad that you think times where women, people of color and homosexual people had no rights were the best times. Not unexpected but sad nonetheless.


How many rights will you have when some foreign country takes over our country? You think the new dictator will give you the right to choose whether you’re shot, hanged or enslaved?


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> You mean like all those men whose wives have worked to put them through school and then, the minute he gets his degree, he dumps her so he can "cat around and live a self-indulgent lifestyle"?


My posting was of my own experience.

Were you dumped after a life of self-sacrifice and compelled to start your life over from zero after having raised four children and 26 years of marriage as I was?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> My posting was of my own experience.
> 
> Were you dumped after a life of self-sacrifice and compelled to start your life over from zero after having raised four children and 26 years of marriage as I was?


I'm sorry that happened to you but using it as fodder to push an agenda that women shouldn't be strong and independent, that women should be relegated to being the chief cook and bottle washer is just wrong-headed. The idea that strong families are only possible when women are weak and dependent is nonsense. Strong marriages & strong families are built when both parties are strong & independent, when both parties respect the other.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> How many rights will you have when some foreign country takes over our country? You think the new dictator will give you the right to choose whether you’re shot, hanged or enslaved?


Your use of a fictional invasion to justify your love of a time when women, POC and homosexual people were 2nd class citizens is just laughable.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

What makes you think such an invasion is not very possible?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> I'm sorry that happened to you but using it as fodder to push an agenda that women shouldn't be strong and independent, that women should be relegated to being the chief cook and bottle washer is just wrong-headed. The idea that strong families are only possible when women are weak and dependent is nonsense. Strong marriages & strong families are built when both parties are strong & independent, when both parties respect the other.


You are aware that a great many strong marriages exist with only a strong man at the helm…. Right? A great many women prefer it that way.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> You are aware that a great many strong marriages exist with only a strong man at the helm…. Right? A great many women prefer it that way.


You are aware that "a great many strong marriages" exist with both people being equal partners, right? A great many women & men prefer it that way.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are aware that "a great many strong marriages" exist with both people being equal partners, right? A great many women & men prefer it that way.


I’m aware that some do. But certainly not “the only strong marriages” as you suggest.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> I’m aware that some do. But certainly not “the only strong marriages” as you suggest.


You might want to try re-reading. You may also want to try listening to the speech I posted where the speaker whom you declare to be an "outstanding" thinker declares that strong marriages are impossible with strong, independent women.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> You might want to try re-reading. You may also want to try listening to the speech I posted where the speaker whom you declare to be an "outstanding" thinker declares that strong marriages are impossible with strong, independent women.


I listened to his speech. Words of wisdom beginning to end when taken in context.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> I listened to his speech. Words of wisdom beginning to end when taken in context.


Not even close. Words of idiocy from a misogynist who wants girls taught that they should be weak and dependent, that they should not pursue a career, that their proper role in society is wife and mother only and that only men's accomplishments should be celebrated. There was no wisdom in that speech.


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> I'm sorry that happened to you but using it as fodder to push an agenda that women shouldn't be strong and independent, that women should be relegated to being the chief cook and bottle washer is just wrong-headed. The idea that strong families are only possible when women are weak and dependent is nonsense. Strong marriages & strong families are built when both parties are strong & independent, when both parties respect the other.



Where did I say that women should be second class citizens or weak and dependent?

I have a daughter that has more balls than most men and I have absolutely no problem with that.

It is good to be a strong person, however, you cannot be in a committed relationship and wish to remain independent as an attitude of independence is not conducive to having unit cohesion within a committed relationship.

The USMC builds strength of character, however, they do not act independently when deployed.

To break unit cohesion erodes trust and gets people killed on the battlefield.

To be independent in a committed relationship means that everyone is keeping their options open and will throw their mate under the bus if it is in their own self-interest.

I witnessed that attitude play out with my maternal grandmother, my mother and my ex-wife.

None of them were strong enough to stand on their own, but they all wanted to keep their options open and have their cake and eat it too.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

A ship with two captains is doomed before it leaves the dock.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not even close. Words of idiocy from a misogynist who wants girls taught that they should be weak and dependent, that they should not pursue a career, that their proper role in society is wife and mother only and that only men's accomplishments should be celebrated. There was no wisdom in that speech.


It’s like they didn’t really listen to the guy in your link or they just didn’t understand what he was saying.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> Where did I say that women should be second class citizens or weak and dependent?
> 
> I have a daughter that has more balls than most men and I have absolutely no problem with that.
> 
> ...


First, the speech that started this whole thread is all about teaching girls that they shouldn't be strong and independent, that they should not have careers, that they should only be wives and mothers & that only men's accomplishments should be celebrated.

Second, being independent in a committed relationship does not mean "keeping your options open" and "throwing your mate under the bus". It's about being able to make your own decisions, being able to think for yourself, having your own interests and being your own person. A marriage isn't storming Iwo Jima. It is supposed to be a partnership, not a dictatorship.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

I’m the anti-PC.

From the way of my ancestors and the way of my own upbringing, Dad does the fighting, defending and brings home the bacon so Mom can teach, nurture and care completely and freely for the children.

Anything other than this has a very dim value in my eyes, especially in this day and age.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> First, the speech that started this whole thread is all about teaching girls that they shouldn't be strong and independent, that they should not have careers, that they should only be wives and mothers & that only men's accomplishments should be celebrated.
> 
> Second, being independent in a committed relationship does not mean "keeping your options open" and "throwing your mate under the bus". It's about being able to make your own decisions, being able to think for yourself, having your own interests and being your own person. A marriage isn't storming Iwo Jima. It is supposed to be a partnership, not a dictatorship.



Please reference the alleged misogyny that you are so hot and bothered about, as I did not see/hear it the same as you must have.

I beg to differ. marriage is much about conflict resolution. Call it a war of sorts.

No group can follow two leaders at the same time. In a marriage there can be but one leader, elsewise it will unravel like a cheap sweater.

In every organization there is a chain of command, otherwise there is anarchy.

I choose to adhere to the biblical marital model. God at the head, man and then woman.

Anything less, is doomed to constant infighting and jockeying for position until it collapses.

Show me a marriage where the man and woman function independently and I'll show you a man who has abdicated his duty to lead.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> It’s like they didn’t really listen to the guy in your link or they just didn’t understand what he was saying.


I understood him perfectly, although it’s obvious that his message went right passed some. Which part of a strong family unit being necessary to a strong country is puzzling you?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Tom Horn said:


> Please reference the alleged misogyny that you are so hot and bothered about, as I did not see/hear it the same as you must have.
> 
> I beg to differ. marriage is much about conflict resolution. Call it a war of sorts.
> 
> ...


I'm not picking on you, just quoting you because you're saying what a few other are also saying. And I disagree with the hypothesis.

I've been married for nearly 30 years (together more than 30 years). Our marriage doesn't have a leader. We're partners. Sometimes I make the decisions. Sometimes he makes the decisions. We decide who gets the last say based on who cares more about the issue at hand. There isn't a chain of command included in the partnership, or if there is one, it changes based on the situation. 

We both function independently, but do check in with the other so that no one gets worried (as in, I go do my stuff but if I'm running late I let him know so he doesn't worry, and vice versa).

I do not need someone to lead me. I'm a functioning, intelligent human being who can survive without another human being "leading" me in the correct direction. He is the same way. Our marriage is a coming together of two functioning, intelligent human being who just enjoy life more together than apart. 

You may live life differently, and that's fine. I just detest people assuming that, because I have certain genitals, I need someone with different genitals telling me what to do or it all falls apart. I'm not a dumb animal, and marriage should not be a war.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mish said:


> partners


The key


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Mish said:


> I'm not picking on you, just quoting you because you're saying what a few other are also saying. And I disagree with the hypothesis.
> 
> I've been married for nearly 30 years (together more than 30 years). Our marriage doesn't have a leader. We're partners. Sometimes I make the decisions. Sometimes he makes the decisions. We decide who gets the last say based on who cares more about the issue at hand. There isn't a chain of command included in the partnership, or if there is one, it changes based on the situation.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you have a working relationship based upon mutual respect. And the is how it should be.

I am neither misogynistic, nor militaristic. I believe that in a marriage both parties should be free to express themselves and not be forced to be cookie cutter figments of some imaginary ideal.



> The woman was taken out of the man’s side, and not out of a higher or lower part of his body, to show that she is neither to govern nor usurp authority over him, nor yet to be his slave or servant: but, as his companion, to be treated with kindness; respect, and affection.
> 
> https://biblehub.com/commentaries/genesis/2-21.htm


*Ephesians 5:25* Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”

When you say to someone, "I love you," what you are truly saying to them is, "I believe in you," for better or worse, for richer or poorer, you believe in each other, you do not lose faith in each other.

To jump to the conclusion that it all boils down to genitalia is to be completely blind.

For either party to place a premium upon personal independence is to shipwreck the relationship before it even leaves the port.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Tom Horn said:


> It sounds like you have a working relationship based upon mutual respect. And the is how it should be.
> 
> I am neither misogynistic, nor militaristic. I believe that in a marriage both parties should be free to express themselves and not be forced to be cookie cutter figments of some imaginary ideal.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your ability to quote scripture but you can't expect everyone to follow your faith and preaching to those that don't doesn't sway opinions.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Tom Horn said:


> It sounds like you have a working relationship based upon mutual respect. And the is how it should be.
> 
> I am neither misogynistic, nor militaristic. I believe that in a marriage both parties should be free to express themselves and not be forced to be cookie cutter figments of some imaginary ideal.
> 
> ...


I appreciate what you're saying, and in no way meant to imply you are misogynistic or militant. My problem is that usually when people argue about who gets to lead and who "gets" to follow, it does usually default to genitals. Husbands lead, wives obey. We've had enough arguments around here to know that genitals decide who is a husband and who is a wife for most people.

Not at all implying that this is what you are saying. I've just been around the block enough to know that we still have a ways to go.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

wr said:


> I appreciate your ability to quote scripture but you can't expect everyone to follow your faith and preaching to those that don't doesn't sway opinions.


The quotes were not intended to be preachy. 

Wisdom from any source is still wisdom.

Those who cannot comprehend wisdom and despise it because they hate the source, doom themselves to forever dwell in darkness.

A thought transfixed me: for the first time in my life, I saw the truth as it is set into song by so many poets, proclaimed as the final wisdom by so many thinkers. The truth—that love is the ultimate and the highest goal to which man can aspire. Then I grasped the meaning of the greatest secret that human poetry and human thought and belief have to impart: The salvation of man is through love and in love. I understood how a man who has nothing left in this world still may know bliss, be it only for a brief moment, in the contemplation of his beloved. In a position of utter desolation, when man cannot express himself in positive action, when his only achievement may consist in enduring his sufferings in the right way—an honorable way— in such a position man can, through loving contemplation of the image he carries of his beloved, achieve fulfillment. For the first time in my life I was able to understand the meaning of the words, "The angels are lost in perpetual contemplation of an infinite glory."-Viktor Frankl

Love is the only way to grasp another human being in the innermost core of his personality. No one can become fully aware of the very essence of another human being unless he loves him. By his love he is enabled to see the essential traits and features in the beloved person; and even more, he sees that which is potential in him, which is not yet actualized but yet ought to be actualized. Furthermore, by his love, the loving person enables the beloved person to actualize these potentialities. By making him aware of what he can be and of what he should become, he makes these potentialities come true.-Viktor Frankl


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

We always joke that my husband my be the head of the household, but I am the neck and where I turn he follows.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> I appreciate your ability to quote scripture but you can't expect everyone to follow your faith and preaching to those that don't doesn't sway opinions.





Tom Horn said:


> Those who cannot comprehend wisdom and despise it because they hate the source, *doom themselves to forever dwell in darkness.*













If you don’t agree with him you are doomed….DOOMED to dwell forever in darkness.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> Please reference the alleged misogyny that you are so hot and bothered about, as I did not see/hear it the same as you must have.


Let's start with his overall tone that a woman's place is in the home & how dare she think otherwise. Then there are these other little tidbits

Girls should not be taught to be "as independent as boys are said to be". (Implying that women should be taught to be dependent.)
Great nations are led by men. (Obviously he missed the part where women have leadership roles in both public and private spheres and we do it quite well.)
We should prepare women to be mothers. (Apparently he thinks that is the only role of women. How about we prepare women to be the best version of themselves they can be, developing all their talents and interests instead of some caricature of what he thinks women should be?)
Women should have the "feminine" goals of homemaking and bearing children. (Again trying to promote the caricature of who he thinks women should be.0
It was a mistake for Republican presidents to promote policies that encouraged women to work after having children. (Apparently he thinks we should make it as difficult as possible for women to step outside the limited role he thinks we should have.)
It would be great if only men won Nobel Prizes. (Obviously, he missed the fact that women have brains and we know how to use them.)
Men should have a public role but women should only have private roles. (He seems to have missed the fact that women have brains & talents just as much as men do.)



Tom Horn said:


> I beg to differ. marriage is much about conflict resolution. Call it a war of sorts.


Marriage is about teamwork and being partners. It is about respect & love. If your marriage is a war, then you have a problem.



Tom Horn said:


> No group can follow two leaders at the same time. In a marriage there can be but one leader, elsewise it will unravel like a cheap sweater.
> 
> In every organization there is a chain of command, otherwise there is anarchy.
> 
> ...


I will refer you to post #82 as Mish provided the perfect response.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> Let's start with his overall tone that a woman's place is in the home & how dare she think otherwise. Then there are these other little tidbits
> 
> Girls should not be taught to be "as independent as boys are said to be". (Implying that women should be taught to be dependent.)
> Great nations are led by men. (Obviously he missed the part where women have leadership roles in both public and private spheres and we do it quite well.)
> ...


You are obviously a clairvoyant as you appear to know the mind of Professor Yenor as you use terms like, implying, obviously, apparently, trying to promote the caricature, apparently, obviously, he missed the fact, and he seems to have missed the fact.

Jaundiced much?



SLFarmMI said:


> Marriage is about teamwork and being partners. It is about respect & love. If your marriage is a war, then you have a problem.


Marriage itself is not a war, is about teamwork, however, to think that there will never be disagreement is naïve. There are many outside pressures put upon a marriage and it is important for any couple to present a unified front in the face of opposition, hence war against opposition. Also, I am a strong believer in the woman being in the home, to nurture any progeny, to make a house a home. I personally believe that we are the creation of God and men are wired differently from woman. If we go against that design, we will find that life is not very satisfying as we are constantly trying to make up for a deficit.

There is a tremendous amount of stress inherent in the workplace and it is not beneficial if both the man and woman come home emotionally exhausted from the grind of the rat race. 



SLFarmMI said:


> I will refer you to post #82 as Mish provided the perfect response.


I responded to Mish. Please see post #84


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Know yourself.

If a person is only able to work with a person who wants to be a housewife, then he should only date women who want to be housewives. "For better of for worse: in sickness and in health, for richer and for poorer" would not have worked very well for us in the Professors preferred world. See, the 2 of us worked together, and so I worked for a large part of our marriage. Each of us simply did what we needed to do. And, in the Professor's ideal world women who needed jobs could not get them.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> You are obviously a clairvoyant as you appear to know the mind of Professor Yenor as you use terms like, implying, obviously, apparently, trying to promote the caricature, apparently, obviously, he missed the fact, and he seems to have missed the fact.
> 
> Jaundiced much?


His meaning is clear to anyone with a modicum of receptive language skills. One does not need to be a clairvoyant to comprehend that he believes a woman's place is in the home and that the only people qualified to lead are men. He puts it right out there, plain as day. 



Tom Horn said:


> Marriage itself is not a war, is about teamwork, however, to think that there will never be disagreement is naïve. There are many outside pressures put upon a marriage and it is important for any couple to present a unified front in the face of opposition, hence war against opposition. Also, I am a strong believer in the woman being in the home, to nurture any progeny, to make a house a home. I personally believe that we are the creation of God and men are wired differently from woman. If we go against that design, we will find that life is not very satisfying as we are constantly trying to make up for a deficit.
> 
> There is a tremendous amount of stress inherent in the workplace and it is not beneficial if both the man and woman come home emotionally exhausted from the grind of the rat race.


Where did I say that there wouldn't be disagreements? 

If the woman wants to be the home & not have an outside job, that should be her choice. But we shouldn't be putting out the message to girls that that is their proper role, that that is all they can be. Girls have brains, talents, interests and goals just like boys do and we shouldn't be telling girls that the only proper thing to do is to shelve all that to be in the home. BTW, men could also be the ones to be "in the home, nurture any progeny, to make a house a home". 

There is a "tremendous amount of stress inherent" in being pushed into a lifestyle that is counter to the way that an individual wants to live and it is not "beneficial" if we try to push people into roles that they do not want to play.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

So .... who is denying science now ????????????????????????


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I just love all these big words. Makes me feel better about myself.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Tom Horn said:


> My posting was of my own experience.
> 
> Were you dumped after a life of self-sacrifice and compelled to start your life over from zero after having raised four children and 26 years of marriage as I was?


That happens to women all the time. I worked with a woman who never had a paying job, whos husband left her for a younger woman. The woman I worked with was left with nothing, not even the skill to get a job that paid well enough to support herself.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

It's all okay, he hates childless men too.

Get them all married young so they can have a bunch of babies they can't support. Nothing wrong with that plan. (sarcasm intended)
Put the boys/men to work early so they can support their dozen children. 

I don't know what his plan is for women once their children are grown and out of the house, or if the father of her children becomes disabled. Maybe he thinks women should dump their husband and find another man to support all those kids. After all, men who aren't fathers aren't capable of contributing to a strong country.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

@Tom Horn , you applaud that speech, yet your own daughter is not married and producing children during the fertile, very short window, time of her life. She is engaged in a career formerly reserved only for men. Obviously your daughter is a feminist who has set out to destroy the country.

@Evons hubby , you applaud his speech but your wife works outside the home. She doesn't sit around waiting for her grandchildren to visit and give her life purpose.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> There is a "tremendous amount of stress inherent" in being pushed into a lifestyle that is counter to the way that an individual wants to live and it is not "beneficial" if we try to push people into roles that they do not want to play.



And on that point, we all agree. You, me and Scott Yenor.

https://twitter.com/scottyenor/status/1465817724014055425?s=20


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> And on that point, we all agree. You, me and Scott Yenor.
> 
> https://twitter.com/scottyenor/status/1465817724014055425?s=20


Not quite since he is advocating pushing women into roles that they do not want to play.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not quite since he is advocating pushing women into roles that they do not want to play.


He's just prepping us for Sharia Law. 

Keeping women home and out of the workforce works so well for all the nations where women have no say about their lives.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Danaus29 said:


> He's just prepping us for Sharia Law.
> 
> Keeping women home and out of the workforce works so well for all the nations where women have no say about their lives.


These folks need to crawl back under the slimy rocks from whence they come. Why are some men so terrified of strong, independent women making their own decisions and living life on their terms?


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> @Tom Horn , you applaud that speech, yet your own daughter is not married and producing children during the fertile, very short window, time of her life. She is engaged in a career formerly reserved only for men. Obviously your daughter is a feminist who has set out to destroy the country.


False Dilemma

Way to go!

You win the devoid of reason, logical fallacy award!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> @Evons hubby , you applaud his speech but your wife works outside the home. She doesn't sit around waiting for her grandchildren to visit and give her life purpose.


Actually she does. She quit her job a year ago.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Actually she does. She quit her job a year ago.


But she had the choice to work or not. That is the important part.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not quite since he is advocating pushing women into roles that they do not want to play.


You obviously did not watch the video.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465817724014055425
While professor Yenor does not advocate that women be barefoot and pregnant, he does articulate that feminists are the ones who push young girls into roles that they do not fully appreciate the consequences of having entered into.

Promising a bill of goods for capitulating to the feminist ideal, when the reality is all too often just pie in the sky.

I completely agree.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> You obviously did not watch the video.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465817724014055425
> ...


I did watch the video. It is just a rehash of the nonsense presented in his speech. He advocates that girls be taught that their proper role is in the home and that men are the ones who should be leading both at home and in the nation. He is advocating pushing young girls into certain roles. His claims about independent women are nonsense. 

How about we respect that girls have brains, talents, interests and skills just like boys do and encourage both boys and girls develop those and lead the lives that they want to lead instead of trying to push them into roles they don't want?


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

no really said:


> But she had the choice to work or not. That is the important part.


To me, the important part is what is in the best interests of the family.

Back when our four children were quite young, my stay at home, now ex-wife, expressed a desire to go "to work."

As if being her own boss at home wasn't work enough.

I informed her that it was impractical for her to do so.

My reasons were:

We would have to acquire a second vehicle.

She would need a different wardrobe.

We would need to pay for daycare for four small children.

She would be working as a low wage, entry level/unskilled worker, thereby bring home maybe $25 to $50 per week above expenses, if that.

Our children would effectively be denied being cared for and influenced by their mother in exchange for the influence of a stranger.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

no really said:


> But she had the choice to work or not. That is the important part.


I don’t try to control anyone else. To me that’s the important part.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> To me, the important part is what is in the best interests of the family.
> 
> Back when our four children were quite young, my stay at home, now ex-wife, expressed a desire to go "to work."
> 
> ...


Did you bother to ask her what she wanted & why? Or did you just assume that you knew best?


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> I did watch the video. It is just a rehash of the nonsense presented in his speech. He advocates that girls be taught that their proper role is in the home and that men are the ones who should be leading both at home and in the nation. He is advocating pushing young girls into certain roles. His claims about independent women are nonsense.
> 
> How about we respect that girls have brains, talents, interests and skills just like boys do and encourage both boys and girls develop those and lead the lives that they want to lead instead of trying to push them into roles they don't want?


My daughters are intelligent, and I am not threatened by that, nor do I wish to stymie them.

I have no problem with young men and women being free to follow their dreams, my only caveat is that they be allowed to do so free of the negative influences of the agenda driven that would push them into positions that they were not cut out for.

Women were created to bear children keep the home and be nurturers, men were created to be providers. I have seen the results of those who reject that model. I grew up under it and I was married to it and I can guarantee you that neither my mother, my maternal grandmother nor my ex-wife were fulfilled, content individuals.

I did not see where professor Yenor prescribed punitive action against women who see careers/employment. His focus is how radical feminism has worked to bring down the nuclear family, which is the backbone of any nation.

His advocacy of motherhood falls in line with the reality only women can bear children and that no country can long survive with zero to negative population growth

Feminism is the national equivalent of sawing off the branch you are sitting on.



Tom Horn said:


> While professor Yenor does not advocate that women be barefoot and pregnant, he does articulate that feminists are the ones who push young girls into roles that they do not fully appreciate the consequences of having entered into.
> 
> Promising a bill of goods for capitulating to the feminist ideal, when the reality is all too often just pie in the sky.
> 
> I completely agree.


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> Did you bother to ask her what she wanted & why? Or did you just assume that you knew best?


As the head of the household, it was my job to lead.

When you have children to provide for, you don't have the luxury of doing what you want, regardless of the wherefore and the why.

You just buckle down and do your duty.

I did and if she resented doing hers, that was on her.

As it turned out, I only wish she had abandoned me and the children, we all would have been better off as she has unequivocally proven that she does not care about anyone on the face of the earth outside of herself.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

edited


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Evons hubby said:


> wasn’t that the era that we emerged as a world super power? Very strong nation with strong family values, not prone to killing babies etc. could be the 50s weren’t all that bad for most.


I just watched a show about the invasion of Normandy. In one of the boat building factories around half the employees were women. If it wasn't for women stepping in to perform factory work, we would never have won that war.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Tom Horn said:


> False Dilemma
> 
> Way to go!
> 
> You win the devoid of reason, logical fallacy award!


You must have missed the part of the speech where he said women should be guided to have families and rear children.

While I am sorry that the women in your family did not treasure their family and children, it was their own personal shortcoming. The so-called feminist movement cannot keep mothers from loving their children.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Tom, you and your wife decided together what the two of you would do. Fine.

When only men are hired, however, there is no choice to be made, and women will either marry or be dependent on relatives and jobless and helpless for the rest of their lives.

This is America, where both genders have choices to make. Just as you would not like to be assigned to a job at the day of your birth, neither do women. While there is nothing wrong with being a housewife-I have been one for the last 20 years- there is nothing wrong with being a mechanic or a truck driver either. Tell me, would you accept being assigned to either one of those careers at your birth, and be forbidden to do any other job, even if you wanted to or needed to?

The wrong is not in the job of full-time motherhood, it is in not being allowed to be anything else.

And Even's Hubby, I hated the 50's and early 60's. I did.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My mom loved her children more than her abusive first husband. Should she have stayed with him in hopes that he would eventually grow up and become a good husband and father?

It wasn't feminism that drove my mother into the work force. It was an overly controlling man who believed in controlling _his_ money.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

The topic of the 50's and 60's were brought up, my grandfather said the treatment of women in those times was sad. That treatment was what brought about women's push for equality and the chance to advance in education and employment.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Danaus29 said:


> He's just prepping us for Sharia Law.
> 
> Keeping women home and out of the workforce works so well for all the nations where women have no say about their lives.


That is true. But, that is the policy of the Commucrats.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Tom Horn said:


> While professor Yenor does not advocate that women be barefoot and pregnant, he does articulate that feminists are the ones who push young girls into roles that they do not fully appreciate the consequences of having entered into.
> 
> Promising a bill of goods for capitulating to the feminist ideal, when the reality is all too often just pie in the sky.
> 
> I completely agree.



I'm a feminist. I have never pushed my children to do anything other than attempt to excel in something that makes them happy. I was raised by card-carrying NOW member type feminists, and was never pushed to do anything I didn't want to do. My sister and I were simply told that we were as good as any man out there, we could achieve anything our minds, skills and hard work could get us, and don't let them tell you any different.

I think you're looking at the wacko feminist outliers (which exist in every group, even conservative Christian women-should-stay-at-home groups) and assuming your run of the mill feminists are wackos. Most of us just want our daughters to be treated as equal human beings with equal minds, abilities, and choices. Period. 

The reason that a lot of women seem to be arguing with you is that we actually experience the negative side that you perhaps aren't seeing because you haven't lived through it. There is still a lot of "women are less than" out there. That's why most of us (including only myself here, I don't know what the other women qualify themselves as) feminists exist, so that our daughters, or maybe their daughters, can do what they want, and not what some man or group of men tell them they should want.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Tom Horn said:


> As the head of the household, it was my job to lead.
> 
> When you have children to provide for, you don't have the luxury of doing what you want, regardless of the wherefore and the why.
> 
> ...


So, no, you didn't bother to ask. That's what I thought.

Did you ever consider that she wanted a small part of her life where she had an identity as herself instead of "Tom's Wife" or "Bobby's Mom"? Did you ever consider that she might have wanted to have a conversation with someone that didn't involve whether or not they needed to use the potty? 

Why is it that some men expect that once a woman becomes a wife and mother that she stops being a person and should have no interests outside of those roles?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Vjk said:


> That is true. But, that is the policy of the Commucrats.


I thought about liking this post because I agree with it. But I don't like the policy.


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> You must have missed the part of the speech where he said women should be guided to have families and rear children.
> 
> While I am sorry that the women in your family did not treasure their family and children, it was their own personal shortcoming. The so-called feminist movement cannot keep mothers from loving their children.



He acknowledged the fact that a country cannot long survive where the majority of households are either childless or broken.

Perhaps you could actually listen to the man. *"We should build a country where young girls are encouraged to be mothers and wives as well as enjoying fulfilling jobs if they choose."*

For your convenience:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465817724014055425
No one can take advantage of, or warp an unwilling heart, however, if they choose to be influenced by radical feminism or more commonly, hatred of any semblance of male authority, they willingly sacrifice all that should be dear to them upon the altar of selfishness.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Terri said:


> And Even's Hubby, I hated the 50's and early 60's. I did.


interesting, might I ask why?


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Tom Horn said:


> Perhaps you could actually listen to the man. *"We should build a country where young girls are encouraged to be mothers and wives as well as enjoying fulfilling jobs if they choose."*


A rebuttal after a backlash from a speech where the "if they choose" phrase was not mentioned. 

Many women work in jobs where he advocated women should be discouraged from participating. His very speech blasted women for _their choice_ in working in several industries.


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Mish said:


> I'm a feminist. I have never pushed my children to do anything other than attempt to excel in something that makes them happy. I was raised by card-carrying NOW member type feminists, and was never pushed to do anything I didn't want to do. My sister and I were simply told that we were as good as any man out there, we could achieve anything our minds, skills and hard work could get us, and don't let them tell you any different.
> 
> I think you're looking at the wacko feminist outliers (which exist in every group, even conservative Christian women-should-stay-at-home groups) and assuming your run of the mill feminists are wackos. Most of us just want our daughters to be treated as equal human beings with equal minds, abilities, and choices. Period.
> 
> The reason that a lot of women seem to be arguing with you is that we actually experience the negative side that you perhaps aren't seeing because you haven't lived through it. There is still a lot of "women are less than" out there. That's why most of us (including only myself here, I don't know what the other women qualify themselves as) feminists exist, so that our daughters, or maybe their daughters, can do what they want, and not what some man or group of men tell them they should want.


What you say that you did for your daughters, I too did for mine.

I did not look at my girls as being girls and therefore relegated to a lifetime of being a homemaker and mother.

I encouraged them to reach for the stars and become anything that they wanted to be.

One did, the other one, not so much.

I was raised by seething man haters and I ended up marrying an extremely passive aggressive, spoiled, only child. The reason that I met her was because it was arranged by my mother and hers, both of whom worked at the High School where I had attended, and she still did. So being young and impressionable, I felt that the relationship had the blessing of both of them. In my mother in law's case that was true. I sorely misread what my own mother had in mind. I believe that she felt that you could put two hormonal teenagers together and I would only escort her to Sunday school.

When our relationship progressed to seriousness, my mother started calling her a whore and a ****, my two younger brothers took it up too as I suppose they thought if mom was saying it, it must be ok. When she learned that we were to be married, she told me face to face, "If I knew that you were right with the Lord, I would rather see you dead rather than married to Kristy Karr." 

When we were married my eldest brother was my best man. My mother, father two younger brothers and my sister came to the ceremony. When I turned to face the attendees after the ceremony, my mother, father two younger brothers and my sister were all marching, single file out the back door of the sanctuary. My mother informed me that, "We only came to see if you would go through with it."

26 years later the woman I had given up so much for dumped me and started acting like a teenager in heat. I walked away from a 26-year marriage with just the clothes on my back, no job, no vehicle, no place to live, because although it would have been my legal right to demand that the house be sold and the contents divided, the car be sold, etc., I felt that my children did not need to witness such a spectacle.

Her parents worked hard their entire lives, (Grapes of Wrath beginnings, Oklahoma and Arkansas.) They had accumulated a tidy sum which included a condo and a house, both free and clear. My FIL would tell my two oldest kids how when he and G-Ma passed each of my three living children would inherit $70,000 plus each. G-Ma passed first from cancer and G-Pa gave up and passed within about 6 months of her. between the passing of G-Ma and G-Pa, my ex-wife conned her father into signing the annuity over to her. She then proceeded to steal, $50,000 from each of our three living children.

The only woman in my life who demonstrated unconditional nurturing and love was my paternal grandmother and we moved 2000 miles away from her when I was eight. My MIL was a close second. She always treated me with kindness, and I never heard a harsh word about me escape her lips. I miss her still.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

I'm truly sorry that you grew up that way and that your marriage ended the way it did. 

I feel kind of crappy pointing this out, but your description of your life actually argues against the fact that all women should be encouraged to be mothers and wives. Some aren't really cut out for it.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Not all feminists are seething man-haters. Not all seething man-haters are feminists. There is no feminism school that teaches women to hate their children.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> Not all feminists are seething man-haters. Not all seething man-haters are feminists.


True, but they are all a pain in the posterior!


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

SLFarmMI said:


> So, no, you didn't bother to ask. That's what I thought.
> 
> Did you ever consider that she wanted a small part of her life where she had an identity as herself instead of "Tom's Wife" or "Bobby's Mom"? Did you ever consider that she might have wanted to have a conversation with someone that didn't involve whether or not they needed to use the potty?
> 
> Why is it that some men expect that once a woman becomes a wife and mother that she stops being a person and should have no interests outside of those roles?


In retrospect, we never should have married as we were two completely opposite personalities. We should never have had four children by the time she was 22 and I was 25.

But we did.

I am heavily Christian influenced old school. I believe that the man is the God ordained leader in a marriage and it falls to him to lead.

When there are children to consider each parent is called upon to put the needs of the children first.

Maybe she wanted what you suggest. I do know that I encouraged her to become involve in women's groups at church in order to give her such an outlet, which she chose not to.

I wanted a farm since childhood. when we married, I naïvely thought, "We're going to have a farm. I love kids; therefore, we can have lots of kids." Classic cart before the horse thinking. When the kids arrived, it dawned on me the responsibilities involved in raising children, i.e., food, clothing, shelter, so the dream of having a farm was shelved. Now I am 65 and missing my right leg due to a hit and run accident 10 years ago, so it looks like I will never realize my dream after having postponed it for my entire adult life.

It was my choice to have children, so it is a consequence of that decision that I find myself where I am today.

When you have children, you cannot have your cake and eat it to, you must share it with your family.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Evons hubby said:


> interesting, might I ask why?


Well, to start with, girls were actively discouraged from doing anything interesting like playing baseball, running, climbing, and taking some of the classes. 

Remember I was a kid back then.

Also, there is a pretty good chance that Tom would still be married to his ex, as divorces were not easy to get and no-fault divorces did not exist. The easiest way of getting out of an unwanted marriage was to accuse the other party of either adultery or moral turpitude, and if you were not convincing enough then the divorce would be denied. Sometimes the parents tried to keep the fight away from the kids and sometimes they did not, but it is amazing what kids overhear. And being asked at school what horrible thing that their Mom or their Dad did could not have been fun either

We were kids. The teachers stopped the conversation if they overheard it, but, that was a big "if". A divorce generally had some interesting gossip behind it.

Lastly, if the divorcing parties were not convincing enough, the couple would be sent back home, after saying in court that their spouse was the spawn of Satan, and told to mend their marriage and get along. Good luck with that. The divorce lawyers cashed in big time, but nobody else seemed to benefit.

Now I realize that this is oversimplified, as were were kids. "Moral turpitude" in kid speak translated to "Doing really bad stuff", but we all were familiar with the term. 

And, 

And, we girls all knew that the good jobs would always be beyond our reach, because those jobs all went to boys. It was just how things were

No, I did not like the late 50's early 60's


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

@Evons hubby, What is your definition of a feminist? We gals would like to know so we would if you consider any of us to be a pain in the posterior?

Never mind, all of us will fit your definition at some point in our lives. By your reasoning we all are pains.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My mom couldn't get a divorce even after trying to bring charges of child abuse and neglect against her husband. There was no such thing in the 60's.

I spent most of my life being terrified of my friend's fathers.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Tom Horn wrote " Now I am 65 and missing my right leg due to a hit and run accident 10 years ago, so it looks like I will never realize my dream after having postponed it for my entire adult life."

SERIOUSLY???????????

I am 65 and disabled, and, by this time next year I hope to have raised my first crop ever and have delivered it to the Food Pantry. It is true that I will never have the energy to both raise the produce and sell the produce, not even sitting at the table at the Farmer's Market, but the Food Pantry out here does not turn away food. I have decided to either raise potatos or sweet potatos, and no refrigeration is needed and both plants can sit in the soil until I have the time and the energy to get too them. 

My advice to you would be to say your prayers, and start looking! Your kids must be in their 40's now, and if you do not do it now then when could you???????

I realize that there are some things that you might want to do more than farm, and that is legitimate. But if farming is at the top of your list, then start looking for what you would need.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> @Evons hubby, What is your definition of a feminist?


in short…… uppity females!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> in short…… uppity females!


And what is an uppity female?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> And what is an uppity female?


That would be the ones screaming and hollering about how they are being picked on by society, instead of just getting off their duffs and making themselves successful. I’m sure you know a few like that.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> A rebuttal after a backlash from a speech where the "if they choose" phrase was not mentioned.
> 
> Many women work in jobs where he advocated women should be discouraged from participating. His very speech blasted women for _their choice_ in working in several industries.


You say rebuttal, I say clarification.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465817724014055425
I do not perceive what professor Yenor said as "blasting" anyone.

These were taken from the speech. The time frame to the left of the quotes is when they appear on the video.

3:40 "Apprenticeship programs, master trade schools and other alternatives to extensive and expensive college might kick start adult life and all its concerns in both men and women."

14:30 "This will mean a rearrangement in the public and private responsibilities of men and women. The effort to erase the old standard of public men and private women has been a mistake. That standard is a very human standard, and we should approximate it under all conditions if we are to build a genuinely national conservatism."


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> That would be the ones screaming and hollering about how they are being picked on by society, instead of just getting off their duffs and making themselves successful. I’m sure you know a few like that.


It’s like you don’t even know what this entire thread is about. 🙄


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> It’s like you don’t even know what this entire thread is about. 🙄


I presume it to be about some words of wisdom uttered and how some misunderstand them. What’s your take?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Tom Horn said:


> You say rebuttal, I say clarification.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1465817724014055425
> ...


you are never going to convince people here that he’s not saying very bluntly what he is saying.
You may agree with him but most women do not and are offended by what he’s saying.
He is certainly entitled to his opinion but I don’t believe he should be left in a position of any authority over female students as funded by the state. He should be terminated and can go to a private college to spread his inanity.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

What is this thread about? 

Women getting jobs, and why some people think that they should not get jobs


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Terri said:


> Women getting jobs, and why some people think that they should not get jobs


saying they should not pursue careers they are not suited for is somewhat different than not getting jobs.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> saying they should not pursue careers they are not suited for is somewhat different than not getting jobs.


Nope, you’re not getting it. What careers are women not suited for?


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Mish said:


> I'm truly sorry that you grew up that way and that your marriage ended the way it did.
> 
> I feel kind of crappy pointing this out, but your description of your life actually argues against the fact that all women should be encouraged to be mothers and wives. Some aren't really cut out for it.


Thank you, we can pick our friends, but we can't pick our families.

Or... You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.

I completely agree with you about having children. My mother told my father that she did not want children at the beginning of their marriage. She ended up having five, four boys and one girl. I don't believe she approved of any of our marriages.

My ex on the other hand, loved babies, however, after they got to a certain age, she kind of lost interest.

I still am convinced that in order to survive, the nation needs strong nuclear families where children are loved and wanted.

I wanted to be a veterinarian when I was younger, however, I was both young and impressionable and allowed my Vocational Ag instructor to talk me out of it. He threw all of the it can't be done, too hard, too expensive, etc, arguments at me and because, at the time I respected him, my self-doubt caused me to not pursue it.

I feel much the same about getting married and having a family.

Young people should be unencumbered in their decision making from bitter, resentful burnouts.

I did not want my children to do what I had done and have children too early in life and thereby carve the courses of their lives in stone.

I counseled them to follow their hearts and I did what I could to help them in those directions.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> Nope, you’re not getting it. What careers are women not suited for?


That depends entirely upon the woman. Same as men.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

14:30 "This will mean a rearrangement in the public and private responsibilities of men and women. The effort to erase the old standard of public men and private women has been a mistake. That standard is a very human standard, and we should approximate it under all conditions if we are to build a genuinely national conservatism."

What is he saying in this quote?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> saying they should not pursue careers they are not suited for is somewhat different than not getting jobs.


Who is the judge of what careers a man or a woman are not suited for?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

no really said:


> Who is the judge of what careers a man or a woman are not suited for?


Talents, aptitude’s, interests are all factors to be considered by the individual. For example, a short, clumsy, one armed man may want to look for something other than pro basketball.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> Talents, aptitude’s, interests are all factors to be considered by the individual. For example, a short, clumsy, one armed man may want to look fo something other than pro basketball.


Which is not at all what this is about. Get Yvonne to help you.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> That depends entirely upon the woman. Same as men.


That’s not what the professor is saying.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> That’s not what the professor is saying.


It’s exactly what he said! Listen again to what he says, not what you thought he said.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Talents, aptitude’s, interests are all factors to be considered by the individual. For example, a short, clumsy, one armed man may want to look for something other than pro basketball.


Yep, but the "professor" thinks someone else should guide/block their decisions.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> Which is not at all what this is about. Get Yvonne to help you.


Yvonne’s busy. Laundry doesn’t do itself, neither does supper cook itself!


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> you are never going to convince people here that he’s not saying very bluntly what he is saying.
> You may agree with him but most women do not and are offended by what he’s saying.
> He is certainly entitled to his opinion but I don’t believe he should be left in a position of any authority over female students as funded by the state. He should be terminated and can go to a private college to spread his inanity.


Interesting how hardly anyone gets excited when a professor spews Marxism/Feminism in the classroom, yet let a conservative give his opinion at a non-school related function and the shouts of "Crucify him!" are defining.



> Yet, it wasn’t happening in university economics departments, because Marxism’s credentials in that discipline were too tarnished by its “practical” track record. Instead, Marxism was thriving in English departments and other more abstract disciplines.
> 
> In these studies, economics was downplayed, and other key aspects of the Marxist worldview came to the fore. The Marxist class war doctrine was still emphasized. But instead of capital versus labor, it was the patriarchy versus women, the racially privileged versus the marginalized, etc. Students were taught to see every social relation through the lens of oppression and conflict.
> 
> ...


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

no really said:


> Yep, but the "professor" thinks someone else should guide/block their decisions.


Nope, not guide or block their decisions, just not encourage foolish decisions.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I don't view the "professor as conservative.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Nope, not guide or block their decisions, just not encourage foolish decisions.


Why do you consider them foolish? Because they are women?


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

no really said:


> I don't view the "professor as conservative.


Me neither, mostly just sensible.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

no really said:


> Why do you consider them foolish? Because they are women?


Nope, gender has nothing to do with ability, aptitude, desire etc.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Me neither, mostly just sensible.


He is plain and simple a fanatic with delusions of grandeur. Not much different than the ultra left professors.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

no really said:


> He is plain and simple a fanatic with delusions of grandeur. Not much different than the ultra left professors.


Difference being… his ideas make sense


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Nope, gender has nothing to do with ability, aptitude, desire etc.


Than what gives anyone, especially a "professor" the right to "guide" them from their path, which could include ability, aptitude and desire?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> Nope, not guide or block their decisions, just not encourage foolish decisions.


My daughter is a lawyer. She loves her job and is very good at it, 
Why would that be a foolish decision?


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Difference being… his ideas make sense


Thanks for the laugh. 🤣 🤣 🤣


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> View attachment 103239
> 
> 
> 
> If you don’t agree with him you are doomed….DOOMED to dwell forever in darkness.



Au contraire


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Tom Horn said:


> Interesting how hardly anyone gets excited when a professor spews Marxism/Feminism in the classroom, yet let a conservative give his opinion at a non-school related function and the shouts of "Crucify him!" are defining.


Clearly you haven’t been here long enough to know what you’re talking about. Try the search function. Lots of us have complained about the baloney spewed in colleges by the left.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> My daughter is a lawyer. She loves her job and is very good at it,
> Why would that be a foolish decision?


For her? It wouldn’t be. For many? Completely!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Tom Horn said:


> Au contraire
> 
> View attachment 103300


Youre now disputing your own words?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> For her? It wouldn’t be. For many? Completely!


Stop trolling or get someone to explain what this thread is about to you.
i understand that you have problems but maybe it’s best to stay off threads that you don’t understand.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

It’s about some whiners that don’t like the truth. At least that’s what the thread title suggests.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> It’s about some whiners that don’t like the truth. At least that’s what the thread title suggests.



Yep, that "professor" is certainly a whiner, poor guy. LOL


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Evons hubby said:


> It’s about some whiners that don’t like the truth. At least that’s what the thread title suggests.


No, you have no idea what it’s about.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> No, you have no idea what it’s about.


Please enlighten.


----------



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Terri said:


> Know yourself.
> 
> If a person is only able to work with a person who wants to be a housewife, then he should only date women who want to be housewives. "For better of for worse: in sickness and in health, for richer and for poorer" would not have worked very well for us in the Professors preferred world. See, the 2 of us worked together, and so I worked for a large part of our marriage. Each of us simply did what we needed to do. And, in the Professor's ideal world women who needed jobs could not get them.



I agree. it is very important to know oneself.

If you know yourself, you will seek out a mate who shares your ideals. That is only logical.

In listening to the speech and a clarification that he put up, I do not at all get the feeling that he is a misogynist that believes that all women should be kept barefoot and pregnant.

I did not at all get the impression that he advocated for woman to be barred from entering any field of endeavor, however, as one who was heavily influenced to not enter the field of veterinary medicine by a trusted (at the time) instructor of agriculture. I know personally what it is like to be pushed in a different direction by a defeatist. 

I can relate to professor Yenor's position that young women should be left to choose their life direction free from being pushed by the bitter, resentful, and unfulfilled.

Because if they allow that to influence them, they too will become the next generation of the bitter, resentful and unfulfilled.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Evons hubby said:


> saying they should not pursue careers they are not suited for is somewhat different than not getting jobs.


When he says that men should be preferred on the workplace, it ends up as the same thing. One big reason why it was hard to get a divorce in the 50's and 60's was because it usually meant instant poverty for the woman and any children who she might have in her custody 

Personally I do not believe that anybody should be pressured to take on a job that they are not suited for. Unlike the professor, I believe that includes the job of being a housewife


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Terri said:


> Personally I do not believe that anybody should be pressured to take on a job that they are not suited for. Unlike the professor, I believe that includes the job of being a housewife


I agree with you here. I also think that Is the professors stance. Far too many universities push for more than students (male or female) are suited for.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Terri said:


> Tom, you and your wife decided together what the two of you would do. Fine.
> 
> When only men are hired, however, there is no choice to be made, and women will either marry or be dependent on relatives and jobless and helpless for the rest of their lives.
> 
> ...



I have to wonder at the level of extremism.

Nowhere did I hear that women should be shackled to a house and children and relegated to a life of dungeon drudgery by professor Yenor.

Indeed, both genders do have choices to, and should make, however, when children enter the picture, their needs supersede the desires of the parents.

Take a survey. I daresay that there are many mechanics, truck drivers, etc., that are "Leading lives of quiet desperation."

Because they know that if they were to jump to another career the drop in income would decimate the family structure, so they plod along, unfulfilled because they have an actual developed sense of duty and honor.

For the first 16 years of our marriage my ex was a stay-at-home mother and student. She was her own boss. If she wanted to, and did copiously, she watched the soaps, she did, if she wanted to, take a break, she did so with no one riding her behind for slacking off.

We weren't rich, but we were reasonably comfortable, except for her desire to get a degree. In hindsight she was developing an exit strategy 10 years before she carried it out, as she dumped me as soon as she had 10 years with the State of Missouri and the children were grown.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Terri said:


> Tom Horn wrote " Now I am 65 and missing my right leg due to a hit and run accident 10 years ago, so it looks like I will never realize my dream after having postponed it for my entire adult life."
> 
> SERIOUSLY???????????
> 
> ...


Yes, my youngest just had her 40th in October.

I do not know what your disability is, however, mine is a right above knee amputation and a right arm that does not have full function due to the fibula and tibia being fused at the elbow, caused by a hit and run driver who left me to die in a ditch 10 years ago.

I'm 6'5" on the left and 4'5" on the right. If I fall, I need assistance to get back up. I am also on an SSDI disability which limits what I am able to afford.

The assistive devices to enable me to use the equipment necessary to engage in a farming enterprise are prohibitively expensive, as is the equipment itself, land, stock, fencing, etc. 

Due to my lack of mobility, I am unable to hang over the hood of a truck, weld out of position, climb a ladder, stretch fence, cut wood, clear land, etc. and pretty much relegated to pavement or hard packed gravel.

My son recently purchased 80 acres and I try to involve myself where and when I can. I haul stuff for the Amish as it gives me a sense of purpose and camaraderie with other farming types.

I do what I can to give my life purpose and find a reason to get up in the morning.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Terri said:


> What is this thread about?
> 
> Women getting jobs, and why some people think that they should not get jobs


Actually, it was a simple repost of a news item that obviously inflamed some passions.

I stand in the way of no one who wants to work as I believe the concept of a strong work ethic is a dying ideal.

I do agree that those who seek careers over responsibilities at home, regardless of gender, is harmful.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Lisa in WA said:


> Clearly you haven’t been here long enough to know what you’re talking about. Try the search function. Lots of us have complained about the baloney spewed in colleges by the left.


You mean this?

I looked for your post, however, I didn't find it.



HDRider said:


> How do kids come to believe this?
> 
> I fully expect the interviews are selected to support the narrative, but I do not believe the kids are scripted.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I have Multiple Sclerosis. I walk with a cane, and I can walk for perhaps 10 minutes before I have to sit down. Tom, farming while you are living on SSDI is a problem, I will grant you that. It looks like your problem is a financial one. I was able to buy a small tractor for $6,500 and it is small enough for me to get on it.

I have to wonder, though. How will your son be maintaining his land? I let my 5 acres go for years, but it is now growing a lot of tree seedlings, and I have no intention of allowing it to go to forest. So I bought a gently used Cub Cadet and a bush hog.

Have you seen the used sub-compact tractors? They have been around for long enough that they are cheaper than they were:


https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/list/manufacturer/john-deere/model/x728


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> You mean like all those men whose wives have worked to put them through school and then, the minute he gets his degree, he dumps her so he can "cat around and live a self-indulgent lifestyle"?


I worked and put my wife through Nursing School, and then again for her Masters degree. It took everything I made and all of the savings I had before I met her. And I am still working. Where do I sign up for this self indulgent lifestyle? Should I have got that in writing before I paid out all that money? 

Shucks, I knew I was getting hosed on this deal.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

Terri said:


> I have Multiple Sclerosis. I walk with a cane, and I can walk for perhaps 10 minutes before I have to sit down. Tom, farming while you are living on SSDI is a problem, I will grant you that. It looks like your problem is a financial one. I was able to buy a small tractor for $6,500 and it is small enough for me to get on it.
> 
> I have to wonder, though. How will your son be maintaining his land? I let my 5 acres go for years, but it is now growing a lot of tree seedlings, and I have no intention of allowing it to go to forest. So I bought a gently used Cub Cadet and a bush hog.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear about your condition.

Yes, the financial aspect is a rather large obstacle. There are a lot of cool things out there, however, they all come with a price.

I would love to have one of these, save two things, price and load capacity.

http://actiontrackchair.com/

The Missouri University Extension has a program called AgrAbility where they help fix assistive devices onto equipment for disabled farmers, however, the individual has to purchase the equipment.

Missouri AgrAbility - Programs | MU Extension

Dave has zero turn mower and a compact excavator; he is adding to his equipment as he is able, and a tractor and brush hog are on the list.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Kansas Agribility was willing to buy me a tractor, but I could not see having the taxpayer buy me a $30,000 new tractor for my little homestead, and I knew I lacked the knowledge to keep an old tractor in repair.

I was just lucky to see an older tractor in good repair by the side of the road with a "for sale" sign on it.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Danaus29 said:


> I just watched a show about the invasion of Normandy. In one of the boat building factories around half the employees were women. If it wasn't for women stepping in to perform factory work, we would never have won that war.


If you read about Mileva Marić and even Marie Currie, you will find some other ladies that played a big part in winning that war.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

barnbilder said:


> If you read about Mileva Marić and even Marie Currie, you will find some other ladies that played a big part in winning that war.


Yup, lots of good people helped win that war. Mostly coz they believed in doing the right thing…. The direct result of strong families.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

A lot of women were working in the fields which Prof. Yenor said they should not be recruited. One of the fields in which he said women should not be recruited into, the medical field, is one where women have worked for centuries. Where would medicine be without Clara Barton and Florence Nightingale?

Yet he wants women to be recruited to be wives and mothers, despite the fact that not all women can or should be wives and mothers.


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