# Do you find it offensive if someone calls you "sir" or "ma'm"?



## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

Just curious .... a friend of mine just went through training in her new job and they are forbidden to use these terms as they are deemed offensive. 

That reminded of a preschool teacher I once witnessed to go off on a 3 year old girl for saying "Thank you, ma'm." She yelled at her that she was "no ma'm" and that it is inappropriate. I thought the girl just had good manners.

I am wondering how many people actually take an offense to that. Say, if you were in a store and the cashier said "Thank you, sir/ma'm". If you find it offensive, would it be offensive enough to take some action (e.g. complain to the manager)?


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Depends on the context. Out of politeness .. no. At work ... maybe.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I wouldnt be offended if a clerk called me ma'am, but I would think they were pretty unobservant.... my beard should give them a hint!


----------



## FeralFemale (Apr 10, 2006)

I used to be quietly offended. It was kind of an insult. Ma'am is an old lady.

Then I moved to the deep south and everyone says Sir and Ma'am to everyone. Know I find it a refreshing show of proper manners. 

Everyone, even the trashy folks, are more polite and gentile than folks up north. I don't think I could ever live up north again.


----------



## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

I find it hard to be offended when someone is trying to be polite to me. I mean sometimes people do use it sarcastically, but I feel like that's pretty rare.


----------



## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Seems like good manners to me. People are awfully easily offended these days. I think if someone is offended by sir or ma'am, I get to invent a new term for them that seems more suitable.


----------



## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

FeralFemale said:


> I used to be quietly offended. It was kind of an insult. Ma'am is an old lady.
> 
> Then I moved to the deep south and everyone says Sir and Ma'am to everyone. Know I find it a refreshing show of proper manners.
> 
> Everyone, even the trashy folks, are more polite and gentile than folks up north. I don't think I could ever live up north again.


I never thought of it as an age thing but that makes sense. I grew up in a different culture. In my native language, we have formal & informal way of addressing people. Informal is used only among family, when an adult speaks to a child and upon mutual agreement among adults. I still refer to my childhood friends' parents as "Mr. _Last-name_" or "Mrs. _Last-name_". I would prefer if my children addressed their friends' parents the same way (Mr/Mrs + last name) but I have found that some of my friends found that offensive for the same reason you were offended by ma'm. I have settled for my kids using Mr/Ms + first name with other adults. I don't like it very much but it seems more acceptable. However, most of my friends just let their kids refer to adults by their first name alone. I really dislike it and find it disrespectful. But like you, I am only quietly offended by that.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

In the south we have always been taught to call our school teachers Ma'am and Sir. If you didn't, you would be called down and a note home to your parents. All adults are to be be called Ma'am and Sir.


Work, no.


----------



## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

Woolieface said:


> Seems like good manners to me. People are awfully easily offended these days. I think if someone is offended by sir or ma'am, I get to invent a new term for them that seems more suitable.


In Tagalog (one of the languages used in the Philippines) they use the term "po". It is a gender neutral, respectful "sir/ma'm" term. For example, "Thank you, sir" or "Thank you, ma'm" would both be "Salamat, po".


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

It doesn't offend me. I think it's polite, maybe a bit old fashioned.


----------



## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

FeralFemale said:


> I used to be quietly offended. It was kind of an insult. Ma'am is an old lady.
> 
> Then I moved to the deep south and everyone says Sir and Ma'am to everyone. Know I find it a refreshing show of proper manners.
> 
> Everyone, even the trashy folks, are more polite and gentile than folks up north. I don't think I could ever live up north again.


That post just made my day.  :clap:


----------



## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

Of coarse it's just manners.

But have to admit it sounds like the police nowadays, like your in trouble . But what else can they call you?


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

I grew up in the south and now live in the north. People in authority, people 10 years older or more or also merchants were afforded this respect. While our children were learning to speak this, attitude became a part of their upbringing. Now in their thirties they still use this courtesy to us and I hope to others. 

My mother and father instilled it in me and I'm happy they did. Yes in my forties it was a signal of advancing age when teenagers or 20 somethings said it to me, but hey, it was a lot better than what I hear some young ones calling their elders, (parents, teachers and strangers) today. 

Folks like to connect the implication of Mamm with the head of a bordello. I wonder what Madame Curie would think of this?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

People try very hard to be offended these days.
I hear there's good money in it.


----------



## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

We taught our boys to use these terms as a sign of respect. The USMC 'honed' that teaching in our oldest. Lo and behold, he used it at his civilian job later (not sarcastically) and was called on the carpet for being 'overally formal.' :hrm:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I suppose the perception of respect is as well.
Personally, I prefer ma'am to -hey you.


----------



## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Good manners! My children said sir or ma'am to adults or anyone in authoritative roles or were verbally reprimanded to do so. My grandchildren are getting the same from me and DW. If someone finds it offensive, to bad.


----------



## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

FarmerKat said:


> Just curious .... a friend of mine just went through training in her new job and they are forbidden to use these terms as they are deemed offensive.
> 
> That reminded of a preschool teacher I once witnessed to go off on a 3 year old girl for saying "Thank you, ma'm." She yelled at her that she was "no ma'm" and that it is inappropriate. I thought the girl just had good manners.
> 
> I am wondering how many people actually take an offense to that. Say, if you were in a store and the cashier said "Thank you, sir/ma'm". If you find it offensive, would it be offensive enough to take some action (e.g. complain to the manager)?


I think it's offensive to be belittled for using the term "sir" or "ma'am". Those are terms intended to show respect.

So, when someone in the grocery store starts to walk away from the cashier without a bag that they just paid for, just what term are you supposed to use to try to gain their attention when "sir" or "ma'am" is "offensive"? 

This PC crap is getting quite tiring.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I raised my kids (in the North) to say Ma'am and Sir, and Mr. and Mrs. 
When they were pre-teen, and an adult would say "oh you can call me Sally" they would say "yes ma'am" because I did not want them calling adults by their first name, until they were older. 

They are in their young 20's and find their peers and the younger generation, crude and mannerless.

I find it refreshing to be called ma'am, and in no way offended.


----------



## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Not at all.

I don't like being called 'Sweetie' or 'Hon' by anyone other than my wife though and that is also a southern thing in some places. I ignore it cause I know they don't mean anything but it does bug me.


----------



## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yea I don't think it's a lack of manners in the north, and I don't think most people are offended. I think people just feel like sir and ma'am was too rigid, and now it's become out of the norm to say it so no one knows how to feel about it. People try to be humble and equal, so I guess it is kind of uncomfortable sometimes, especially at work. I say it at work sometimes when I really appreciate something, but I think people don't really like it because they like helping and it feels like more "part of the job" than a favor worth recognition. So I've just kind of adopted a nonchalant but positive tone. "Thanks much," and move on. But then, you know, don't chuck those people under the bus next time they need help.

Usually if random people up here need something from me, they just say a polite "excuse me" and I say, "Hi, what's up?" Then I give out directions and move on.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I wouldnt be offended if a clerk called me ma'am, but I would think they were pretty unobservant.... my beard should give them a hint!



You have just insulted every bearded lady ever in the world.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

FarmerKat said:


> In Tagalog (one of the languages used in the Philippines) they use the term "po". It is a gender neutral, respectful "sir/ma'm" term. For example, "Thank you, sir" or "Thank you, ma'm" would both be *"Salamat, po"*.


We have a similar phrase in some of our inner cities, "Shutup, Ho".


----------



## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

poppy said:


> We have a similar phrase in some of our inner cities, "Shutup, Ho".


Pffaahahahaha! I would have said lol, but this deserved better than that. Too true.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

FeralFemale said:


> I used to be quietly offended. It was kind of an insult. Ma'am is an old lady.
> 
> Then I moved to the deep south and everyone says Sir and Ma'am to everyone. Know I find it a refreshing show of proper manners.
> 
> Everyone, even the trashy folks, are more polite and gentile than folks up north. I don't think I could ever live up north again.


Very true. We love going down south where everyone is polite and will take time to answer questions or be helpful. It is a much slower lifestyle it seems to me.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

If you are offended by use of either sir or ma'am then I think you are looking for ways to be offended. 

"sir" is simply a polite, respectful or formal address used for a man in anglophone cultures. 

"ma'am" is simply used as a polite, respectful or formal address for a woman in anglophone cultures.

Neither has connotations of old age attached.


----------



## hippygirl (Apr 3, 2010)

I've only been "scolded" for using ma'am once...4th grade teacher at an elementary school in Athens GA. She asked me a question, I answered "Yes ma'am" and she went off like a rocket. She never did it again, though...a visit from my aunt took care of it nicely.

I recall the first time I was ever addressed as ma'am...I was 16 and at the PX in Frankfurt (Germany) and a young soldier said "excuse me, ma'am"...I felt so grown! 

I and most folks I know and interact with say sir and ma'am...if it offends someone, that's their choice.


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

emdeengee said:


> If you are offended by use of either sir or ma'am then I think you are looking for ways to be offended.
> 
> "sir" is simply a polite, respectful or formal address used for a man in anglophone cultures.
> 
> ...


I mostly agree. The age connotation comes in when you consider younger women, presumably single, used to be called "miss". The older ladies were "ma'am". But the PC crowd kinda blew that, too, because they got their panties in a wad over "Miss" versus "Missus" and switched to "Ms."


----------



## TMTex (Apr 5, 2013)

I don't feel insulted by it, but it feels a bit weird. Recently, a supervisor at work stated calling everyone sir or maam and it stuck. Now, a lot of people are doing it. I was a Sergeant and not an Officer, so I'm not used to it so much. One day, I might get used to it.



mnn2501 said:


> Not at all.
> 
> I don't like being called 'Sweetie' or 'Hon' by anyone other than my wife though and that is also a southern thing in some places. I ignore it cause I know they don't mean anything but it does bug me.


I think it's cute when they say that. Makes me feel like I'm talking to my aunt.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yes Sir Miss or Misses as seems appropriate. 
I will not respond to a child that does not use Mister.


----------



## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

I can't believe that a sign of respect is not allowed in the workplace. How are they supposed to respond to each other? 

While we are on pet peeves, mine two are the doctor's office and nursing homes. I think it is very rude for the doctor's nurse to shout out first names of people they want to call back. I don't respond and usually after two or three times, the nurse will say my first and last names. Then I respond. I visit the three nursing homes in the area, and again, I think it is disrespectful for the staff to call the residents by their first name. At the least is should be prefaced by "Mr. or Mrs. (Ms.)"


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Belfrybat said:


> I can't believe that a sign of respect is not allowed in the workplace. How are they supposed to respond to each other?
> 
> While we are on pet peeves, mine two are the doctor's office and nursing homes. I think it is very rude for the doctor's nurse to shout out first names of people they want to call back. I don't respond and usually after two or three times, the nurse will say my first and last names. Then I respond. I visit the three nursing homes in the area, and again, I think it is disrespectful for the staff to call the residents by their first name. At the least is should be prefaced by "Mr. or Mrs. (Ms.)"


In the nursing home, it's probably intended to make the residents feel more at home. It is their home, it's where they live, and who wants to be called to breakfast as Mr Smith? 

But what the staff should do, call them "Mr/Mrs/Miss" until they ask them, is it OK to call you John, Mary, etc? Then the staffers who know the people can call them by name and hopefully make them more comfortable, while any new staffers coming on board would use the more formal titles until they also ask permission.


----------



## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

The south can be polite, but it can also be classist. When DW started going to some doctors, the 20 something birdbrain office staff would refer to her by her first name and then they and the doctor would insist the doctor be referred to as "Doctor."

Gotta love DW, she said something to the effect of "Young lady, I worked for my PhD and if you are going to be respectful and polite, you will refer to me only as DOCTOR Chickpea." You could see the blanching even beneath the layers of pancake makeup.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Harry Chickpea said:


> The south can be polite, but it can also be classist. When DW started going to some doctors, the 20 something birdbrain office staff would refer to her by her first name and then they and the doctor would insist the doctor be referred to as "Doctor."
> 
> Gotta love DW, she said something to the effect of "Young lady, I worked for my PhD and if you are going to be respectful and polite, you will refer to me only as DOCTOR Chickpea." You could see the blanching even beneath the layers of pancake makeup.


That seems common in the medical world but I don't know why. We don't address others as "Barber Tom" or "Garbageman Joe".


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I really like for the doctors to call me by my first name and most of them do. I always call them Dr xxx. It does seem that they expect me to call them by their Title. It is ok with me. My children's wives and husband, I asked them to call my husband and me by our first names. They do and it seems very natural to me and to them. I spent my life not knowing exactly what to call my MIL and FIL. I ended up calling them Granny and Papa like the grandchildren did. I am getting a new grandaughter in law so I have had the little talk with her and asked her to call me what she feels comfortable with but I would love for her to call me MeeMaw like her future husband does. I think that she will.&#9829;


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

I don't mind at, in fact I like and use "sir", not ma'am(for obvious reason) but it make perfect sense NOT to use it in any business setting.

People will be just fine without it and will avoid the selfish one's who would purposely take it as an insult, or just feign mock outrage.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I wonder if ma'am in the south is different from the word Madam? I use ma'am to every woman, yes ma'am even to my daughter sometimes.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> I wonder if ma'am in the south is different from the word Madam? I use ma'am to every woman, yes ma'am even to my daughter sometimes.


Women in the south address others by honey, sugar, darlin', which I think is awesome but I know many flip out when they hear this.

people should look at the intent, if it is meant to be good.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I use sweetie, sweet baby, darling baby, honey pie, a lot too, especially to my grown up children. They still eat it up.


----------



## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

gapeach said:


> I wonder if ma'am in the south is different from the word Madam? I use ma'am to every woman, yes ma'am even to my daughter sometimes.


I use ma'm and sir with my kids as well (they are 5 and 7 by the way ... lol). If they call for me, I often respond with "yes, ma'm / sir". I figure if I want them to respond that way, it's best if it comes naturally. 

Since I am not from the South originally, it still catches me off guard some times when people call someone "honey". In general, I think it is very nice. But it still seems odd to me when a strange young man half my age calls me honey or if another woman calls my husband honey.


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I got a "sweetie" just today on the phone from a nice sounding Alabama girl. Didn't bother me a bit. I also like the Southern manners. This world can use all the manners and grace we can muster.


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

FeralFemale said:


> I used to be quietly offended. It was kind of an insult. Ma'am is an old lady.
> 
> Then I moved to the deep south and everyone says Sir and Ma'am to everyone. Know I find it a refreshing show of proper manners.
> 
> Everyone, even the trashy folks, are more polite and gentile than folks up north. I don't think I could ever live up north again.





gapeach said:


> In the south we have always been taught to call our school teachers Ma'am and Sir. If you didn't, you would be called down and a note home to your parents. All adults are to be be called Ma'am and Sir.
> 
> 
> Work, no.





nchobbyfarm said:


> Good manners! My children said sir or ma'am to adults or anyone in authoritative roles or were verbally reprimanded to do so. My grandchildren are getting the same from me and DW. If someone finds it offensive, to bad.





I can still remember being raised that way. You didn't dare address an adult with anything but respect or you got a reminder why you should, lol.


----------



## Janis R (Jun 27, 2013)

No Sir, I am not offended by someone calling me Ma'am.
But I am offended when people call me sweetie, honey, doll or if someone refers to me as a Broad, Old Lady, ball and chain, chick or babe.


----------



## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

I only skimmed this thread, as the o.p. just ticked me off. Not FarmerKat! the preschool teacher who would have had something coming from me if she yelled at my 3 year old for such a thing. And we'd a been finding a new preschool, or stayin home.

My father is 89 years old. Still addresses another man with "sir" in a conversation or encounter with anyone he is not familiar with. And sometimes when he IS familiar, just depends on the circumstances. "ma'am" as well. It's what we do. 

It's a habit that never goes away if it gets drilled in properly. Your brain learns to suit what comes out without you even realizing it made any decision. 

I remember being a young person, say early 20's, when some children said ma'am. For about a millisecond, I thought "oh no, my youth is over." Then immediately I smiled thinking how glad that parents were teaching the youngun right.


----------



## Bellyman (Jul 6, 2013)

I still don't know what personal pronouns are politically correct. ?? 

Take away enough words and it becomes difficult to speak.


----------



## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Ma'am or madam or madame (European with inflection on the last _a_) simply means "my lady". Even queens and kings are addressed as ma'am or sir, regardless of their age.

I don't take offense at the use of ma'am or sir. I think people who do take offense at it are just ignorant. Maybe that's not their fault, it just might be because of ignorant upbringing and poor education at home and school about what is considered correct social etiquette. 

It's always been a form of courtesy. I grew up with ma'am, sir and miss as correct usage, we used those terms to address our teachers in school and any other person older than ourselves whose surname or correct title or form of address was unknown. Never used an elder's first name, always Mr., Mrs., Miss plus their surname. Likewise at work, ma'am or sir were commonly used to address supervisors, foremen, managers, etc. As far as I know people still do it unless they're on very casual terms with their superiors that they work with. People of all ages where I live now still use ma'am and sir for someone whose name is unknown. I call people who are younger than me ma'am or sir if I don't know their name. Not children though, unless I'm doing it in a sort of joking manner with them and even then I'd call them _young sir_ or _young miss_. 

I thought this was interesting, it gives a bit of history about the use of madam, ma'am. It also explains that in Europe the word chevalier is sometimes used as a substitute for sir. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madam


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Janis R said:


> No Sir, I am not offended by someone calling me Ma'am.
> But I am offended when people call me sweetie, honey, doll or if someone refers to me as a Broad, Old Lady, ball and chain, chick or babe.


Ummm, how are ya with "hottie" or maybe "sourpuss"?


----------



## ejagno (Jan 2, 2008)

Janis R said:


> No Sir, I am not offended by someone calling me Ma'am.
> But I am offended when people call me sweetie, honey, doll or if someone refers to me as a Broad, Old Lady, ball and chain, chick or babe.


In that case you might want to stay north of the Mason Dixon Line because here along the Gulf Coast we call everyone honey, sweetie, darling, sunshine, Ma'am and Sir. It's a sign of affection and respect. We even call you family and hug a lot too. Sorry if that's "offensive" but we won't change our lifestyle to accommodate anyone.


----------



## brosil (Dec 15, 2003)

I used to call the old guys Sir. Now I get called Sir. It's a bit depressing but fair.


----------



## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

I was taught to use the terms Sir and Ma'am as a sign of respect to my elders & those in authority. To this day (I'm 60+ y.o.), I still use the terms in those situations.

Interestingly, the use of the terms Sir and Ma'am are still prevalent in the Bible Belt. Not coincidentally, the Scriptures teach that we are to respect our elders and those in authority.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Janis R said:


> No Sir, I am not offended by someone calling me Ma'am.
> But I am offended when people call me sweetie, honey, doll or if someone refers to me as a Broad, Old Lady, ball and chain, chick or babe.


I dunno,I kinda like it when the gal at the store calls me sweetie or hon..maybe because she's half my age 
My little 4 year old granddaughter will call me honey if she really really wants something when we are in a store.
She says "Come look at this Honey" Or "I really need that Honey...please Honey?"
I don't get too shook up, it beats a temper tantrum like some kids throw.


----------



## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

Woolieface said:


> Seems like good manners to me. People are awfully easily offended these days. I think if someone is offended by sir or ma'am, I get to invent a new term for them that seems more suitable.


Someone beat you to it. It's "Honey".


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

ejagno said:


> In that case you might want to stay north of the Mason Dixon Line because here along the Gulf Coast we call everyone honey, sweetie, darling, sunshine, Ma'am and Sir. It's a sign of affection and respect. We even call you family and hug a lot too. Sorry if that's "offensive" but we won't change our lifestyle to accommodate anyone.


That sounds very much like here in the Kentucky hills. We tend to be quite freindly... Until we're not.


----------



## jefferson (Nov 11, 2004)

It has taken 70+ years to get to where people call me Sir. Now they want to take it away? What is left in this PC world. We have already exhausted the alphabet by calling certain letters replacement words. like the "N" word. Freeking. etc. come on folks, leave me something that doesn't have to be "politically correct".

I am really urinated off here.


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

FeralFemale said:


> I used to be quietly offended. It was kind of an insult. Ma'am is an old lady.
> 
> Then I moved to the deep south and everyone says Sir and Ma'am to everyone. Know I find it a refreshing show of proper manners.
> 
> _Everyone, even the trashy folks, are more polite and *gentile* than folks up north._ I don't think I could ever live up north again.


Well, likely it _is_ part of the bible belt. Makes sense there'd be a large population of gentiles, ya know?  Don't ya just love those typos? 

Having lived in the NY/NJ metro area, the midwest, and here, the use of respectful pronouns, as well as informal, innocently meant terms of endearment is more common here. But, I don't know about it being a habit that could be classified by a particular region. I kinda lean towards it being more or less common based on population density, i.e., more common in the country, less in the city.

I was never really offended by sir. The way I see it, it all depends on the context. You can usually tell if the term is used in a respectful manner or not. Time was, if I wasn't comfortable with sir, I would just tell the person, "Oh lordy! Don't call me that. You're making me feel old." Most times they would get that I wasn't tore up over it, and often, I'd get a, "Well, you _are_ old!" right back. Or I'd say, "Don't call me sir. I work for a living." But, always with a smile on my face. IMO, a little humor often helps to diffuse situations which could become uncomfortable...That is, of course, in the case of folks who have what most would consider a normally functioning ventromedial frontal lobe.


----------



## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I wouldnt be offended if a clerk called me ma'am, but I would think they were pretty unobservant.... my beard should give them a hint!


Happened to me once. I was in Wally World about ten yrs ago and a saleswoman did that. Granted, she came up from behind, and probably didn't bother to notice anything about me, other than my hair. She said, "Can I help you, ma'am?" I turned around to see a rather large, and decidedly masculine looking, woman sneering at me. "No thank you, sir," I said, as I turned back around, "I can handle it."


----------



## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

I was at the hardware store grabbing some downspouts and such, a lady twice my age or more called me sir. I was not offended.


----------



## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

I think tone is important. The tone can make a lot of difference in how those sir and ma'ams play out.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

No for me. I even call my granddaughter maam. She calls me sir too. Its not about age to me but respect. If I don't respect you you wont hear it from me and you'll know where we stand.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

I was raised up north and we were very informal. When I went in the military I learned to say Sir and Ma'am. I have lived in the South every since and I have no problem with being called Ma'am. We taught our boys to call older people by with Mr/Mrs and their last name or Mr./Ms. first name if they were closer friends or younger. And they all learned to say Sir/Ma'am to anyone else. 

Honestly as long as people aren't being rude I don't care much what they call me. Those honeys and darlings can definitely be insulting, I have used darling and son myself to talk down to people. Tone means a lot.


----------



## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm not a sir, I work for a living! :nana:


----------



## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Patchouli said:


> I was raised up north and we were very informal. When I went in the military I learned to say Sir and Ma'am. I have lived in the South every since and I have no problem with being called Ma'am. We taught our boys to call older people by with Mr/Mrs and their last name or Mr./Ms. first name if they were closer friends or younger. And they all learned to say Sir/Ma'am to anyone else.
> 
> Honestly as long as people aren't being rude I don't care much what they call me. Those honeys and darlings can definitely be insulting, I have used darling and son myself to talk down to people. Tone means a lot.


This is me as well. I call everyone ma'am or sir and answer all but family (and them sometiems also) with 'yes ma'am/sir'. Now I'm older no one here calls me hon or sweetie (so it WAS a slightly sexist term coming from middle aged men creeping on me... and it DID get me cranky) except a few very sociable female friends who I suspect can not remember people's names they have so many friends.

The only people who should complain about being called sir or ma'am are NCOs and if they don't let us know that kindly with "...I work for a living!" they're part of the problem. (And I've been called Captain disrespectfully, but never Major- maybe by the time I was a Major I knew what the devil I was doing!)

Kids: we taught our kids NOT to call US ma'am or sir, but everyone else- would've stood out at school- possibly as disrespectful- to be the only students there who DIDn't do that. I tell other kids to call me Ms. Jenn since I doubt they'd feel comfortable with just Jenn, but my kids' older friends who correctly call me Dr. (my last name) instead of Mrs. (my kid and husband's last name) really win points. These kids are usually the boyfriends my daughters want me to like- think they give the fellas a hint.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

MO_cows said:


> I mostly agree. The age connotation comes in when you consider younger women, presumably single, used to be called "miss". The older ladies were "ma'am". But the PC crowd kinda blew that, too, because they got their panties in a wad over "Miss" versus "Missus" and switched to "Ms."


Mr. was originally the short form for Master but now is short for Mister as Master has unpleasant and unacceptable connotations.

Mrs is the short form for Mistress or the female version of Master. Mistress now has basically one meaning and that is not married woman, head of household.

Ma'am is short for Madam which is short for Ma Dame (French) used originally in English as My Dame meaning my lady or my woman.

Miss is also the short form for Mistress. Mistress was a term that was applied to a married woman but it was also applied to unmarried women who were the head of a household or simply the eldest daughter. She would be referred to as Miss (Mistress) Smith (surname only) . Her younger sisters would be referred to as Miss Mary Smith or Miss Anne Smith. 

Any woman who was married, regardless of age, was referred to as Ma'am and this did include some very young women in the old days.

Ms came into use in the 1950s before the Women's movement took flight but was adopted in the 1960s as a protest against gender identification by suffix. It was first introduced in the 1950s to be used when a woman's marital status was unknown but also as a form of protection for women.


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

These terms all came into wide use just after America won her independence. Before that, those formal words were reserved only for people of a certain class. It caused some consternation to some of the upper class. Common people began to refer to their common neighbors as sir, mrs, mr, and so on. 

I use m'am, sir, mr and mrs all the time, regardless of the other person's age. It is a sign of respect. Also, in the hospitals and other places I have worked you referred to patients as mr. or mrs. too.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I was surprised to read that many take offence at "Buddy".


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> I was surprised to read that many take offence at "Buddy".


It often depends on context, and it's usually easy to tell how it was intended


----------



## hippygirl (Apr 3, 2010)

Every time I read/listen to a discussion about whether ma'am is offensive, I wonder what they (those who are offended) would prefer to be called if, for example, they just walked away from a cashier and left their wallet laying on the counter...what's the cashier supposed to do, their best impression of Jerry Lewis yelling, "HEY LA-DEEE...!"?


----------



## BetsyK in Mich (May 14, 2002)

I have no problem with being called ma'am, it feels like a term of respect to me. I prefer being called Mrs. _____________ (though I'm divorced) if I'm with a group of my daughter's students.

Several months ago I walked into the chiropractor's office and was called into the room by a young lady who addressed me as "Missy Betsy". For some reason it really rubbed me the wrong way, I felt as if I should be in the back seat of an old car driven by Morgan Freeman. She did it again when I came out and when I returned a couple weeks later for another adjustment. I told her it made me uncomfortable, made me feel VERY old and please not to do it again. The young lady raised her nose in the air and explained that she was from the south and everyone used that term there and that she was also an army kid and was taught to address her elders that way. The doctor was listening in the hall and she was gone by my next appt. so apparently I wasn't the only one commenting. Strangely enough, when I met with the gal from a local financial institution about selling my farm she addressed my sister and I both as Miss Betsy and Miss Wanda. Wondering if they were related, I have never had that happen in the past nor have I heard it used by anyone here in Mich.

The whole "sweety", "hon", "darlin", thing from a stranger has the same effect. Guess I'm just a grouchy old biddy!


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

I feel the same about being called sweetheart by a member of the opposite sex. A delivery man did that recently and he was about thirty years my junior. Maybe he thought I'd be flattered. :nono: Nooo... By the time I realized that I heard correctly he was on his way down the road. Little did he know that the term "sweetheart" is rarely an accurate description... :hrm:

If he says it again, I dare say, he'll find out.


----------



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I use sir and ma'm all the time. I also use please, thank you, and excuse me. I have yet to find anyone who was offended and would be surprised if I did. 

I have a great nephew who I have tried to impress on him the advantages of being kind and courteous to others. Being sincerely polite leaves a positive impression. If someone is offended it is their problem, not yours.

Years ago while working in the city I had a young girl come up to me to ask a question. She did not know my name but showed respect by referring to me as "Mr. man". "Excuse me, Mr. man.........". How can anyone take offense at a polite young child?


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

hippygirl said:


> Every time I read/listen to a discussion about whether ma'am is offensive, I wonder what they (those who are offended) would prefer to be called if, for example, they just walked away from a cashier and left their wallet laying on the counter...what's the cashier supposed to do, their best impression of Jerry Lewis yelling, "HEY LA-DEEE...!"?


LOL.
I had that scenario happen to me the other day at a convenience store. 
The person in front of me had to show I.D. and left their wallet on the counter as they walked towards the exit.
I immediately started to speak but hesitated for the right pronoun, the young person had clothes, hair and physique that wasn't obvious either way.:shrug:
I think I ended up shouting, "Hey, Bud!", to get them to turn around and I think I guessed right, but I'm still not sure......
They got their wallet back regardless though.:goodjob:


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I would have just said "Excuse me, but you forgot your wallet"

There's no need to over complicate things


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I think that's pretty close to what eventually came out of my mouth.
"Is this yours?"

I wasn't trying to be complicated, just trying to do a good deed without inadvertently offending or embarrassing anyone, myself included.
There were a lot of people in the store, several lines and cashiers and in 2 more seconds he would have been out of earshot. 
When similar situations have happened to me before, I usually like to draw the attention of the one I think it belongs to, not everyone else for obvious reasons.

Not that complicated, just a human moment.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I wasn't trying to be complicated, just trying to do a good deed *without inadvertently offending or embarrassing* anyone, myself included.


The easiest way to do that is to forego all the pronouns and get to the point 

When I worked at the gun shop this overweight person, probably in their late 60's, came in wearing shorts, sandals, and a loose fitting shirt. Their hair was nearly white, and just about shoulder length. 

The two of us working were both with customers at the time so they just browsed around for a few minutes. 

The store owner got finished first and walked up to them and said "What can I help you with, *Ma'am*?", to which a very *masculine* voice replied, "I'm just looking around".

That one word may have cost him several hundred dollars, although I have to admit without hearing the voice it could have been either gender based on visuals alone


----------



## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

suitcase_sally said:


> Someone beat you to it. It's "Honey".


I like "Puddin' Pie", personally.


----------



## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

hippygirl said:


> every time i read/listen to a discussion about whether ma'am is offensive, i wonder what they (those who are offended) would prefer to be called if, for example, they just walked away from a cashier and left their wallet laying on the counter...what's the cashier supposed to do, their best impression of jerry lewis yelling, "hey la-deee...!"?



Hey, CHOWDA HEAD!


----------



## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

JJ Grandits said:


> I use sir and ma'm all the time. I also use please, thank you, and excuse me. I have yet to find anyone who was offended and would be surprised if I did.
> 
> I have a great nephew who I have tried to impress on him the advantages of being kind and courteous to others. Being sincerely polite leaves a positive impression. If someone is offended it is their problem, not yours.
> 
> Years ago while working in the city I had a young girl come up to me to ask a question. She did not know my name but showed respect by referring to me as "Mr. man". "Excuse me, Mr. man.........". How can anyone take offense at a polite young child?


I'm with you.

I do think we have plenty of offensive things/words in this world today, being called 'ma-am', just doesn't seem like a big deal.


----------



## Aozora (Jan 13, 2014)

It cracks me up when I get "ma'am"ed. I'm 27 and a supervisor, and a lot of times my associates are the same age as I am or older. So I'll be talking to them one day about their favorite movies, laughing and joking. The next day I see them without their PPE and tell them, "Put in your earplugs," and it's all "Yes ma'am." *stands up straighter, immediately obey* And then we go back to laughing and joking. It's kinda surreal.


----------



## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Aozora, it may be surreal but I hope you appreciate their recognition that you are in authority. 

With so many women referring to themselves as "girls" (and being referred to as girls) in the workplace, your position of mgmt. is made so much more difficult.


----------



## beenaround (Mar 2, 2015)

no, not at all. The question that needs answered is what am I and what do I want to convey in relationships. To my peers, we're friends, to the mature whatever they see fit, to the immature I want nothing more conveyed than sir.

I'm married to one in a million, I don't need to be seen as anything more in that regard. Sir is just fine.

The problem with today is few actually grow up.

We have home schooled all 5 kids my 1 in a million gave us. I'm constantly hearing confirmation on what a wise choice that was.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I've always been a "public school" person. My husband and I went to public school. Same school K-12., both of us. Our children all went to PS and I worked at the middle school that they went to for several yrs.
I would not want to put a child in public school today for a lot of reasons.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Problem solved. The Oxford dictionary accepts new words every year. Last week they accepted Mx as a gender anonymous suffix. I guess we can all say to any gender - Excuse me Mx (pronounced Mix) but do you know the way to San Jose?


----------



## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

I've been seeing the term Latinx for Latinos of both genders.


----------

