# Mad Stone



## gean (Apr 7, 2005)

This might be helpful in an emergency and survival situation. A Mad Stone is a stone found in the stomach of a deer. It is used to cure rabies and to draw poisons out of bites and wounds. Do a google search on Mad Stone.


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## kudzuvine (Aug 11, 2011)

never heard of such...I'll check it out. I guess since you don't cut open the stomach when dressing a deer you would never know....thanks...Janet


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

If it cures rabies, how come deer get rabies?


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## gean (Apr 7, 2005)

The stones aren't in every deer. The FoxFire series of books mentions the mad stones.


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Interesting! I too thought that you don't cut open the stomach, so wonder how they found any of these?


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## Simpler Times (Nov 4, 2002)

Neat! I found this write up:

Whitetail Pearls - Iowawhitetail forums


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

That explains a lot. In the book, Where the Red Fern Grows, the dad (I think) gets bit by a rattlesnake. He lucked upon a deer just then, killed it, cut out hunks of its stomach, sliced open the snake bite and used the stomach hunks to draw out the poison. The book states the stomach turned green when it absorbed the poison and he lived.


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## Simpler Times (Nov 4, 2002)

One of the stories that has been passed down through our family is about someone being bit by a rattler and someone grabbing up a live chicken in the yard, splitting it open by pulling on the legs and putting the split open bird against the bite to draw out the poison. I wonder if chickens have those stones? lol.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

The proper name for those madstones is bezoar stones or enteroliths. 

They are composed almost entirely of layers of calcium and can be found in deer, cows, horses, goats, sheep and other ruminants. 

They are most often a whitish color because of the calcium but sometimes can be found as green or pale red or yellow. 

If a bezoar stone is cut in half you can see the layers in concentric circles. 

The ones shown below were taken from horses.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

are they really considered 'medicinal'? As in the opening post? This is something entirely new to me.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

These bezoars are taken from deer. They are usually darker and browner colors than those taken from horses.





































.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

I had a friend that did rabies research as a micro biologists and he studied the Mad Stones and they do work. He was working on how.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> are they really considered 'medicinal'? As in the opening post? This is something entirely new to me.


I guess they are considered medicinal by a lot of people in many countries because they do get sold from places like India, Africa, Siberia, South America and North America. They are touted as having magical healing powers and the power to extend the longevity of people who wear them.

They're just crystalized calcium deposits though so I don't see how they could actually have any immediate effect on a rabies virus or kill the virus. I don't know if they'd be very good at neutralizing or absorbing venom out of a snake bite or spider bite. But maybe if they're heated and applied over a venomous bite they might be porous enough that they might draw out venom as the stone contracts with cooling. I'm just taking a guess at that though. There are also other stones besides bezoar stones that have been traditionally used to heal snake bites - garnet, ruby, bloodstone, just to name a few, but I couldn't account for their efficacy.

For something like a rabies bite or snake bite, I wouldn't count on just a stone to heal it, I'd be taking other more medically heroic measures with it. I might try the stone in addition to heroic measures though.

I hope I never have to find out.

.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

naturelover said:


> I guess they are considered medicinal by a lot of people in many countries because they do get sold from places like India, Africa, Siberia, South America and North America. They are touted as having magical healing powers and the power to extend the longevity of people who wear them.
> 
> They're just crystalized calcium deposits though so I don't see how they could actually have any immediate effect on a rabies virus or kill the virus. I don't know if they'd be very good at neutralizing or absorbing venom out of a snake bite or spider bite. But maybe if they're heated and applied over a venomous bite they might be porous enough that they might draw out venom as the stone contracts with cooling. I'm just taking a guess at that though. There are also other stones besides bezoar stones that have been traditionally used to heal snake bites - garnet, ruby, bloodstone, just to name a few, but I couldn't account for their efficacy.
> 
> ...


According to folk lore they won't work if they are sold, they have to be given to you.


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## gean (Apr 7, 2005)

I don't think anyone is going to burn be at the stake so I will tell the rest of the story.
When my brother was 5 years old he was playing with my grandfather's squirrel dog and was bitten on the cheek. My grandfather locked the dog up and my father took my brother to the Mad Stone. The lady soaked the stone in sweet milk and placed the stone on the wound.The stone stuck for 5 hours and dropped from the wound.The lady soaked the stone again in sweet milk and my dad said the milk turned green.The next day my dad and brother returned home and the dog bite healed but left a small scar. The dog died. My brother was 5 years old in 1949. 
My dad said the stone came from a white doe deer.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Sonshine said:


> According to folk lore they won't work if they are sold, they have to be given to you.


That is actually common folk lore for most things that are claimed to possess traditionally magical or supernatural powers or the powers or blessings of deities. It's considered more personal and effective if the item is given to you by a friend or loved one rather than you seeking it out and buying it (or stealing it) for yourself. I've heard that lore said about bibles, rosaries, crucifixes, tarot cards, healing crystals and stones, wedding and engagement rings, good luck charms, eagle and owl feathers (most especially in many native lores an eagle feather MUST be gifted from a shaman to a deserving person), and several other precious things.

Some of it might be true with regard to holy items that possess the blessings of deities but I think most of that kind of lore was made up as a method of convincing superstitious people not to steal things that are considered precious, or to not kill things or sacred animals that possess precious things in or on their bodies. For example, a white deer and many other white animals are considered sacred by many cultures and they are not supposed to be killed, it's taboo. The folk lore says if you do kill them then you've broken taboo and you bring bad luck or evil curses down on yourself. So people who believe that kind of folk lore won't want to bring bad luck or curses on themselves for seeking out precious things and buying or taking them for themselves.

.


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## kudzuvine (Aug 11, 2011)

Since my earlier post, I asked my son about this. They usually always cut open the stomach to see what the deer has been feeding on prior to the kill. We have whitetail deer here in Mississippi. He said he has never seen a stone, but he wasn't looking for such a thing. He will from now on and if he finds one, will keep it. Whether this works or not, an interesting folk lore to remember. Thanks for sharing Gean.


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## rancher1913 (Dec 5, 2008)

Rabies is a nasty nasty disease and a horrible way to die. However, if there were no other treatment available, I would try this (I'd try just about anything!!). Interesting that a human intestinal obstruction (kinda like a hairball) is also called a bezoar.

Moldy


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

naturelover said:


> That is actually common folk lore for most things that are claimed to possess traditionally magical or supernatural powers or the powers or blessings of deities. It's considered more personal and effective if the item is given to you by a friend or loved one rather than you seeking it out and buying it (or stealing it) for yourself. I've heard that lore said about bibles, rosaries, crucifixes, tarot cards, healing crystals and stones, wedding and engagement rings, good luck charms, eagle and owl feathers (most especially in many native lores an eagle feather MUST be gifted from a shaman to a deserving person), and several other precious things.
> 
> Some of it might be true with regard to holy items that possess the blessings of deities but *I think most of that kind of lore was made up as a method of convincing superstitious people not to steal things that are considered precious, or to not kill things or sacred animals that possess precious things in or on their bodies.* For example, a white deer and many other white animals are considered sacred by many cultures and they are not supposed to be killed, it's taboo. The folk lore says if you do kill them then you've broken taboo and you bring bad luck or evil curses down on yourself. So people who believe that kind of folk lore won't want to bring bad luck or curses on themselves for seeking out precious things and buying or taking them for themselves.
> 
> .


Probably. I had never heard of them before, so I did a search and all the sites I went to said the same thing about not buying them.


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## Palmetto1 (Sep 15, 2009)

I have never cut open the stomach of the deer I have killed. Next season I will look for these, interesting!


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## EasyDay (Aug 28, 2004)

rancher1913 said:


> Rabies is a nasty nasty disease and a horrible way to die. However, if there were no other treatment available, I would try this (I'd try just about anything!!). Interesting that a human intestinal obstruction (kinda like a hairball) is also called a bezoar.
> 
> Moldy


The problem with this is, you don't know if you have rabies until the symptoms appear.... then it's too late.
UNLESS, once symptoms appear, the stone is used. But, seeing how there's no documented cases of this (only one story of a person surviving rabies after symptoms appeared), I'd still be praying my final prayers while the stone was working it's "magic".... just in case!


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

I think every one has read/watched Harry Potter one to many times! 

My mare had to have colic surgery and she had a few small black entroliths. They were interesting to look at but I don't know about using them for anything.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

rancher1913 said:


> .... Interesting that a human intestinal obstruction (kinda like a hairball) is also called a bezoar.
> 
> Moldy


That's basically what a bezoar stone is in animals. Kind of like the way a kidney stone or gall stone develops, or even the way a pearl develops layers of pearly nacreous calcium carbonate. It starts out as some kind of small obstruction in the stomach or intestines like a hair ball, a small stone, a piece of hard wood or metal or whatever and then it starts getting accretions of calcium carbonate surrounding it. Over the course of time it gets layers and layers of calcium carbonate surrounding the small obstruction until you end up with a big round stone of calcium carbonate.

.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

So does calcium carbonate have any benefits in the treatment of rabies or snakebite?


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Ed Norman said:


> So does calcium carbonate have any benefits in the treatment of rabies or snakebite?


None that I know of but I'm not a medical practitioner so couldn't say for sure. Rabies is a virus. Snake venom is .... venom. :shrug:

Calcium carbonate is what eggshells and seashells are made of. There's calcium in milk too. It will neutralize some types of stomach acids but it can also be dissolved in fresh running water and in acetic acid (vinegar). That might be the reason why folk lore calls for the madstones to be soaked in milk so it doesn't dissolve in the hot milk.

Jellyfish venoms can be neutralized in alcohol or ammonia so that might also have some effect in neutralizing some of the toxins in snake venoms. But snake venoms are much more complex than jellyfish venoms, they have thousands of different kinds of proteins, and digestive enzymes, neurotoxins and hemotoxins in them that wouldn't be effected by calcium carbonate.

The only thing I can think of for why madstones might be used against snake venoms is that the stone is very porous and when it gets heated and then applied to the affected area it would act like a sponge to absorb liquids such as venom, serum and blood into the stone as it cools and contracts. It would be counter-productive to soak the stone in hot milk first before applying it to the wound because that would fill it with milk and eliminate it's drawing action when it cools. It would need to be dry heated first, applied dry to the wound to absorb venom as it cools, then soaked in hot milk to get rid of the venom in the stone.

.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

There is nothing that will cure rabies other than the rabies vaccine given in a series of 5 doses over 28 days along with a treatment called human rabies immunoglobulin. Following this old wives tale of the stones will just get you dead. Rabies has an incubation period of 10 days to SEVEN years. If you are bitten or think your kid has been bitten see the doctor right away. Rabies is a horrible way to die. I have witnessed the death of a dog and it haunts me.


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