# Good Common Sense answer to gun control



## bignugly (Jul 13, 2011)

I found this article and it seemed to me to be a good solution to gun control.
A lot of gun owners will tell you that the solution to the number of mass shootings in this country is not any regulation of guns or gun ownership. The response has often been that if more people had guns there would be fewer casualties in a mass shooting because a "good guy with a gun" would shoot the mass shooter.

This is closing the barn door after the horses have fled.

If, however, I accepted that there should be no regulations on gun ownership but still wanted to reduce the number of gun deaths, what would be required? I think this:

All children must have the opportunity, regardless of where they live or the income of their parents to receive an outstanding education with low teacher to student ratios that prioritizes critical thinking and respectful debate.
All men and women between the ages of 18-21 should be required to participate in a year of mandatory service to their country. There's plenty that needs rebuilt, plenty that needs to be done, give everyone a chance to meet, co-mingle, and get to know one another on a human scale.
Accessible vocational, technical and college education programs for post-secondary students that don't cripple individuals with debt and promote critical thinking, problem solving and an orientation towards service and community engagement.
All jobs in this country need to have a livable wage so that if you work, you're not required to go onto welfare or public assistance programs but can actually afford a dignified life. We also need to ensure we have strong welfare programs so that those who cannot work or are intermittently out of work can bounce back.
Universal access to affordable health care that includes physical and mental health which does not punish the sick or unwell and allows all individuals to make decisions about their own health.
Universal access for all people at all times to clean air, clean water, healthy food and the opportunity to experience awe in the world around them -- that means access to parks large and small.
Cease punishing people for failing in honest attempts to improve or for changing their mind when they're presented with new information and experiences. People grow, people make mistakes, people change, and we should support that.
Humanize police work and make our law enforcement less violent, disincentive prisons and eliminate any engagement from the private market in incarceration, while reforming punishments for non-violent, low level offenders.
De-militarize our country and the influence of the private sector on the military-industrial complex.
Underpinning it all, we need equal rights for all people, regardless of gender identity, religious and sexual preference, perceived ability or disability, age, perceived or identified racial or veteran status.
We have all the resources in this country to do all of the above and I think it would significantly decrease the anger, the acrimony, the deep seated mistrust of the "other" in this country and all that should significantly decrease violent outbursts towards our communities thereby lowering gun deaths.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stacy...w-ab_b_8230838.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Hogwash! Another liberal utopian dream, totally disconnected from reality. Sounds like the party platform for the Socialist Party USA.

This should have been posted in Politics.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

I agree with it.
A sense of self, strong character are learned by DOING,
Right along side an adult, how to deal with people in the real world.

In a word, PARENTING would go a long way instead of letting kids run wild, sexting, being socialized by video games, rap noise, and having WAY too much time to find this crap on media or think up something stupid on their own...


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Gun control... teach children to handle and care for a gun and too shoot.
We teach them to drive.... Lord knows that's a dangerous tool too.

Knowledge is power


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

This seems like a GC topic to me, since we don't have a Science Fiction section


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Best Gun control is using both hands. Feet should be roughly shoulder with apart, with your body weight fairly evenly distributed.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Sourdough, you beat me to it, but you missed one point...hitting your target... LOL!

Matt


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## Veedog (May 4, 2015)

Hey big ugly isn't that what they do in your state already? I'm talking about Chicago.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

The OP's wish list is mostly liberal clap trap. It is using the fright of another tragedy to try and justify all sorts of things that have nothing to do with crazies who want to kill a bunch of people before they die in a blaze of glory. 

The VA Tech shooter went to my DD's high school a few years ahead of her. It has consistently been rated one of the top 20 public schools in the nation since it was built in 2003. The county is one of the top three highest income counties in the nation. There are good jobs to be had, there are great parks and rec centers. A job flipping burgers starts at $12 from what I've seen. At the elementary schools where DD and the VA Tech shooter attended, there are food programs where any kid who wants to participate gets a weekend grocery bag to ensure that he has food to eat until he returns to school Monday AM. It is an area with lots of Liberals, lots of support programs, plenty of hospitals, great libraries, great schools, much of what is in the wish list of the OP. 

Yet the VA Tech shooter was still insane and wanted to punish VA Tech students for the emotional pains he felt throughout his young life. All the liberal give aways didn't stop him from being a psycho murderer. 

IIRC, the Columbine shooters were supposedly nice middle class boys from a good neighborhood going to a good school. 

Don't use the evil deeds of an insane man to justify the gov't taking more of our money and liberty. If you want better schools, go with what we have seen work, private schools and vouchers. The less gov't involvement, the better for all.


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## bignugly (Jul 13, 2011)

Veedog said:


> Hey big ugly isn't that what they do in your state already? I'm talking about Chicago.


I thought it was an easy way to shut up the gun haters and keep them off gun advocates backs and cost nothing. Chicago is not liberal or free. Either the government there shakes you down or the criminals. Sometimes they are one in the same. 
My idea of gun control is if anybody is guilty of crimes using weapons of any kind, they should get the maximum sentence possible. Then put all these criminals in a warehouse, give each one a gun and let them have at it with each other!


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

OK, lets arm everyone to the teeth!
Babies don't get rattles, they get .380s,
Every felon gets 3 guns at the door when they get out of prison,
We hand out handguns specifically to the mentally ill...

OK, everyone has 3 guns minimum,
Feel safer yet?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

No, I would not feel safer with three guns apiece... I want the ammo to fit the guns.....duh..

Guns without am no are simply sticking instruments... which is close contact...not that safe or throw object .....which only means trading object till one is knocked out.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Want better gun control? Enforce current laws. What's on the books works fine. How to make it safer?

It could be safer if current laws were enforced. I / we don't know enough about the Oregon events but I'll point out how it ( the system ) COULD HAVE prevented nearly every mass shooting in recent history.-

James Holmes killed 12 in theater shooting. 100% preventable if current laws and procedures were followed. They werent.-
James Holmes was seeing a psychologist. He admitted to her he felt like he was going to hurt others. She ( the doctor ) was REQUIRED BY LAW to report him to the athorities. She did in fact report him. The athorities were in fact REQUIRED BY LAW to input his information into the FBIs data system which would have prevented him from buying the guns used to kill all those people... current law being applied would have saved those 12 people...-

Sept 26th 2013
Aaron Alex shot and killed12 people in the Navy yard in Wash DC. Days prior on 2 seperate occassions Alex was stopped and detained and he actually ADMITTED to police that people were inside his head telling him to do things. It is current law that when an individual appears to be a danger to himself... or others... that they MUST be detained for psychiatric treatment... He was detained neither time.. the result of not enforcing current law was the death of 12 people...

Adam Lanza-
On Dec 14 2012 Adam Lanza killed 26 children and teachers after killing his mother in order to get her AR15.... days earlier he had committed a FELONY by trying to buy a gun at Cabellas... he was turned down because of his mental status. His ATTEMPT to buy that gun was actually a FELONY.... So Adam Lanza was surely arrested per the law correct? No... Adam Lanza was DETAINED as per law correct? No... We'll surely he was at least QUESTIONED right? No... If Adam Lanza was charged with a felony and detained on a psychiatric hold AS WAS REQUIRED by law... 27 people would still be alive...-

How do we make it safer?

Enforce the current laws that's how... we've passed laws that we don't enforce. 80,000 FELONS committed felonies last year by trying to buy guns... out of that 80,000 felonies... how many were prosecuted? How often do felons commit crimes and show identification while committing that crime? Better yet they fill out the forms and sign them actually making for a open and shut case for convictions. What percentage get prosecuted? 50%? Nope.... 25% wrong... how bout a measly 10%? Wrong again.... it must be at least 5%? Come on guys... prosecute at least 1% couldn't you?

No... 16 prosecutions totalling a measly .02%

We have detectives tracking down people for not having mufflers on their cars... we have police arresting kids for riding skateboards on the sidewalk... but we don't do crap to felons who commit more felonies in writing?

We could have stopped literally every Mass shooting by simply enforcing the current laws. Time will tell but chances are the Oregon shooting likely will have the same outcome. He will most likely have benefitted by liberals demands that incarceration rates are too high thereby allows the worst criminals to prey on victims at will....


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Adam Lanza-
> On Dec 14 2012 Adam Lanza killed 26 children and teachers after killing his mother in order to get her AR15.... days earlier he had committed a FELONY by trying to buy a gun at Cabellas... *he was turned down because of his mental status*. *His ATTEMPT to buy that gun was actually a FELONY.*.


I don't think that is accurate.

It's my understanding he had never been "adjudicated mentally defective", and the only reason he was "turned down" is CT requires a waiting period, and he didn't want to wait

They didn't technically "deny" the sale since it was Lanza's decision:

http://www.pressherald.com/2012/12/...-purchase-his-own-gun-sources-say_2012-12-16/



> Sources said Lanza entered the gun store âearlier in the weekâ in the Newtown area and inquired about buying one rifle. He was only 20 years old, and did not have a permit for firearms, and was told about a 14-day background check that would have to be done, the sources said.
> 
> â*He didnât want to wait the 14 days*,â said one source, declining to be identified because the case is still under review. âSo they denied him. The sale did not take place.â


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I don't think that is accurate.
> 
> It's my understanding he had never been "adjudicated mentally defective", and the only reason he was "turned down" is CT requires a waiting period, and he didn't want to wait
> 
> ...


The cabelas worker says that his mental state was in question and he looked extremely disturbing. He even suggested he think about it too make sure buying the gun was what he really wanted. Lanza also had been seen several tuned by Yale psychiatrist and recommended medical treatment but never reported it. To many cracks in the floor for sure.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

It is not even possible to give an outstanding education to all. In fact the constant attempt to do so leads to simply changing the words "outstanding education" to "offering continuing HS classes to those who graduate having refused to learn anything offered them but later realize what idiots they were."

As to everything else, it sounds wonderful except the people it's offered to are the very ones set to destroy it. Like most liberal plans of action, it can't change the nature of the people targeted. Any plan works if people want to follow it. No plan works if people don't.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

JeepHammer said:


> OK, lets arm everyone to the teeth!
> Babies don't get rattles, they get .380s,
> Every felon gets 3 guns at the door when they get out of prison,
> We hand out handguns specifically to the mentally ill...
> ...


typical liberal clap trap. no one here has said arm everyone. Why do you feel the need to create a silly strawman? Do you not believe you can logically argue against the actual positions presented here?


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## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Just remember 1 important thing before you go condemning those with a mental illness from owning guns. Most vets that have PTSD own guns and they are the ones protecting your right over seas to own guns. So by all means take those who have served in combat guns away, see how far that gets you. If people would stop allowing their 12 year old to watch and flat violent games and movies maybe something would change. If people would teach their kids how to handle firearms maybe things would change. Better yet with mass shooting if police would bust in the doors and take care of business instead of sitting back mass shootings could be stopped. Exactly ZERO mass shooting have ever been stopped by an armed citizen....it has never met the criteria2.4 deaths with armed civilian 14 deaths for the police to handle it! Trust who you will but my VETERAN backside will protect my family and self!


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

I concur put this in politics were it belongs!


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

PTSD is a disorder, not out right mental illness.
That's why they are trying to get the name changed to PTS, instead of PTSD,
The disordered thinking that PTS causes is a symptom, not a cause.

Every single person has some sort of disorder, phobias in particular.
You normally don't see someone with an unreasonable fear of spiders or clowns shooting people in mass...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> The cabelas worker says that his mental state was in question and he looked extremely disturbing. He even suggested he think about it too make sure buying the gun was what he really wanted. Lanza also had been seen several tuned by Yale psychiatrist and recommended medical treatment but never reported it. To many cracks in the floor for sure.


A "Cabela's worker's statement after the fact is meaningless.
Even someone "recommending" treatment is meaningless.

This is about facts and laws, not hearsay and gossip.
The sale was not "denied" since Lanza himself chose not to proceed.

If you start denying guns to anyone who looks or acts a little strange to someone, we will soon all be disarmed


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