# LGBT Pride Month?? Really??



## Old John (May 27, 2004)

Well, I didn't want to interfere with the thread on the lesbian baby sitter.........
But, did you see the article about the President setting aside a GLBT Pride Month??

Here's a link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...bian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-pride-month

He said he was going to "Make Changes", didn't he??
So there you are.

Here's part of it...............

Presidential Proclamation--Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month
As Americans, it is our birthright that all people are created equal and deserve the same rights, privileges, and opportunities. Since our earliest days of independence, our Nation has striven to fulfill that promise. An important chapter in our great, unfinished story is the movement for fairness and equality on behalf of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community. This month, as we recognize the immeasurable contributions of LGBT Americans, we renew our commitment to the struggle for equal rights for LGBT Americans and to ending prejudice and injustice wherever it exists.

LGBT Americans have enriched and strengthened the fabric of our national life. From business leaders and professors to athletes and first responders, LGBT individuals have achieved success and prominence in every discipline. They are our mothers and fathers, our sons and daughters, and our friends and neighbors. Across my Administration, openly LGBT employees are serving at every level. Thanks to those who came before us the brave men and women who marched, stood up to injustice, and brought change through acts of compassion or defiance we have made enormous progress and continue to strive for a more perfect union.

My Administration has advanced our journey by signing into law the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr., Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which strengthens Federal protections against crimes based on gender identity or sexual orientation. We renewed the Ryan White CARE Act, which provides life saving medical services and support to Americans living with HIV/AIDS, and finally eliminated the HIV entry ban. I also signed a Presidential Memorandum directing hospitals receiving Medicare and Medicaid funds to give LGBT patients the compassion and security they deserve in their time of need, including the ability to choose someone other than an immediate family member to visit them and make medical decisions.

Hmmmmm....Take care,


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

I get so tired of all the subcultures of this country ranting about needing special attention drawn to their cause. 

Can't we all just be humans? Americans? All different races, sizes, variations and just get on with it? Why doesn't everyone need an identifier and a month long celebration?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Stange , June is the biggest month for Weddings.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

:grumble:BSSSS! 

big rockpile


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

PrettyPaisley said:


> I get so tired of all the subcultures of this country ranting about needing special attention drawn to their cause.
> 
> Can't we all just be humans? Americans? All different races, sizes, variations and just get on with it? Why doesn't everyone need an identifier and a month long celebration?


I agree!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

PrettyPaisley said:


> I get so tired of all the subcultures of this country ranting about needing special attention drawn to their cause.
> 
> Can't we all just be humans? Americans? All different races, sizes, variations and just get on with it? Why doesn't (I think you meant WHY DOES) everyone need an identifier and a month long celebration?


I agree....


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

I totally agree with PrettyPaisley...

Why, if we are supposed to live in such a color/gender/everything-else blind society, why do we keep doing everything in our power to make sure that everybody is singled out in some way.

Really, if you think about it, every single day should be "Whatever Pride Day"... I don't need a specified month for me to be proud of who I am...


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Well, if you'll notice, it's only the radicals that demand '___fill in the black___Pride Day'. The rest of us are content just being Americans.


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## Home Harvest (Oct 10, 2006)

I agree with Txsteader. When is WASP month? I demand a month to call my own! I want parades, firetrucks, fireworks, cake & candy. You know...the works!


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

Txsteader said:


> Well, if you'll notice, it's only the radicals that demand '___fill in the black___Pride Day'. The rest of us are content just being Americans.


Dang,they got the whole month of Feb ain't that enough??Use one of them days for Black Pride.:nana:


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Today, in the great state of New York, a bill in the senate was defeated by one vote. This law would have allowed transgender persons legal access to the restrooms and locker rooms of the gender they believe to be. It would mean that if you objected to a male who felt he was a female inside from showering in the same locker room as your wife or daughter you could be arrested and charged with a hate crime. ONE FREAKIN' VOTE!


The inmates are running the asylm.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

JJ Grandits said:


> Today, in the great state of New York, a bill in the senate was defeated by one vote. This law would have allowed transgender persons legal access to the restrooms and locker rooms of the gender they believe to be. It would mean that if you objected to a male who felt he was a female inside from showering in the same locker room as your wife or daughter you could be arrested and charged with a hate crime. ONE FREAKIN' VOTE!
> 
> 
> *The inmates are running the asylm*.


That, JJ, is an understatement! Incredible.


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## GoatsRus (Jan 19, 2003)

JJ Grandits said:


> Today, in the great state of New York, a bill in the senate was defeated by one vote. This law would have allowed transgender persons legal access to the restrooms and locker rooms of the gender they believe to be. It would mean that if you objected to a male who felt he was a female inside from showering in the same locker room as your wife or daughter you could be arrested and charged with a hate crime. ONE FREAKIN' VOTE!
> 
> 
> The inmates are running the asylm.


Hmmmm....so any guy/gal could say they *felt *they were female/male just to be a pervert and get in the other locker room..... AMAZING.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

How else can liberals be divisive except by playing up the difference between folk under the guise of "protecting" them from everyone else? Then it follows that they play one against the other. If you don't like their legislation, etc. then you're racist, etc. 

There has to be a manufactured crisis or their agenda does not work. The sooner we realize this, and not get hooked into their trash, the sooner we'll put an end to it.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

Wolf mom said:


> How else can liberals be divisive except by playing up the difference between folk under the guise of "protecting" them from everyone else? Then it follows that they play one against the other. If you don't like their legislation, etc. then you're racist, etc.
> 
> There has to be a manufactured crisis or their agenda does not work. The sooner we realize this, and not get hooked into their trash, the sooner we'll put an end to it.


It's an age old strategy - divide and conquer - works every time and is working very well now.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Yuppers - and look how many get sucked into their diatribe and emotionally spout off without thinking about their gameplan. 

:grit:


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

It was so much easier to be a straight white guy of European descent before all these other people started getting so uppity.

I mean, if it's not the slaves wanting to be free, it's them womens wanting to vote.

Before you know it, the Irish will want their own holiday.

It's enough to make me want to go buy some more power tools.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

What about "Straight People" month??? Wait, that would be discrimination. What was I thinking?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Oggie said:


> It was so much easier to be a straight white guy of European descent before all these other people started getting so uppity.
> 
> I mean, if it's not the slaves wanting to be free, it's them womens wanting to vote.
> 
> ...


Missed the point there Oggie.
It's about a whole month to celebrate their sex lives, and if it's official, I'm sure the libs will have 1st graders studying it in school.
It's just Obama trying to get some votes from the gays.
Maybe we should set aside a month to celebrate normal people?


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> Missed the point there Oggie.
> It's about a whole month to celebrate their sex lives, and if it's official, I'm sure the libs will have 1st graders studying it in school.
> It's just Obama trying to get some votes from the gays.
> Maybe we should set aside a month to celebrate normal people?


I would say that the point is there.

For decades, normal was straight white European (but, let's not include all the countries) men. It was celebrated. Heck, that normal was darned near worshiped.

All that was to the detriment of everyone else.

Well, you know what, we're now the minority in both numbers and power. Guess it's time that some other folks will get a chance to dance on the stage for a change.

And, what about us? Well, we'll have to compete for what we want. We're no longer guaranteed a job, a home or political power merely because we were born as who we are.

I'm ready to do that. I have the gumption and capability.

To do otherwise is the opposite of what this nation is supposed to be built upon.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

shanzone2001 said:


> What about "Straight People" month??? Wait, that would be discrimination. What was I thinking?


Yea what about Straight White Month,time to get to the White College Fund and don't forget the Miss White America Contest.

Yea I'm Straight White Christian American and Dang Proud of it!! :flame:

big rockpile


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Oggie said:


> I would say that the point is there.
> 
> For decades, normal was straight white European (but, let's not include all the countries) men. It was celebrated. Heck, that normal was darned near worshiped.
> 
> ...


"We" haven't been guranteed anything for decades.
This is a sex life they want to push on us, not a race, not a religion, not a gender.
I don't care what they do, why does Obama (a closet homosexual) feel the need to make a national gay sex month?
Maybe instead of campaigning, stealing from us and pandering to foreign powers and special interest groups, he should be doing what he paid to do?


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

Clearly your lives are just as frought with hardship as the gay guy I know that lost 40 points off his IQ just because some stupid drunk hick thought it perfectly acceptable to beat him upside the head with a brick.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

I'm confident enough about my heritage, sexuality, capabilities and moral fiber that I don't think I need to lean on the special privileges and protections that were there for my kind in the past.

Giving someone else a voice does not diminish my ability to speak nor the validity of my ideals.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Oggie said:


> I'm confident enough about my heritage, sexuality, capabilities and moral fiber that I don't think I need to lean on the special privileges and protections that were there for my kind in the past.
> 
> Giving someone else a voice does not diminish my ability to speak nor the validity of my ideals.


Well said!!! :rock:


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Prismseed said:


> Clearly your lives are just as frought with hardship as the gay guy I know that lost 40 points off his IQ just because some stupid drunk hick thought it perfectly acceptable to beat him upside the head with a brick.


Okay, what happened to your friend is terrible, but how is that any different from ANY person getting beaten?

Women, men and children get beaten and murdered every second of the day. I fail to see where the death (or injury) of one person is any more important than the death (or injury) of another.

There are idiots who will hate someone for any reason they can think of, whether that be your color, gender, religion, sexual orientation, height, weight or shoe size.

Flame away, if you'd like, but I simply fail to see how one can scream for "equality" and then demand preferencial treatment.


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

Oggie said:


> I'm confident enough about my heritage, sexuality, capabilities and moral fiber that I don't think I need to lean on the special privileges and protections that were there for my kind in the past.
> 
> Giving someone else a voice does not diminish my ability to speak nor the validity of my ideals.


It's one thing to give someone else a voice, it's something quite different to have the tail wag the dog to the detriment to the majority. That is what is happening now. You sound like the man from the FCC asking who was going to step down and let someone else be in charge for a while.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Carmen Renee said:


> It's one thing to give someone else a voice, it's something quite different to have the tail wag the dog to the detriment to the majority. That is what is happening now. You sound like the man from the FCC asking who was going to step down and let someone else be in charge for a while.


No one has to step down. It isn't an either/or sort of thing.

Neither my race not my sexuality controls my life. They are a part of my life.

If someone else has another race or sexuality, it doesn't concern me all that much.

As long as they lead moral and ethical lives, it doesn't involve me.

It has no effect whatsoever on my life.


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

But it is/will effect our lives. Very much so. Race and sexuality are not the same thing.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Carmen Renee said:


> But it is/will effect our lives. Very much so. Race and sexuality are not the same thing.


Nor is gender.

But that doesn't give me reasons to expect special privileges or disproportional power merely because I was born a man.


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

But that's exactly what the LGBT want. They want special treatment and special privileges. "Tolerance" to them is not actual tolerance, it's total and complete acquiescence to their agenda. And if you don't agree with them wholeheartedly you are a "hater".


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Jenni979 said:


> Okay, what happened to your friend is terrible, but how is that any different from ANY person getting beaten?
> 
> Women, men and children get beaten and murdered every second of the day. I fail to see where the death (or injury) of one person is any more important than the death (or injury) of another.
> 
> ...


The difference is the level of hatred involved in _targeting_ someone _specifically _because of their race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. Expecting to be protected from this kind of xenophobic violence is not asking for "preferential treatment".


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

bluesky said:


> The difference is the level of hatred involved in _targeting_ someone _specifically _because of their race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. Expecting to be protected from this kind of xenophobic violence is not asking for "preferential treatment".


It's my opinion that these sort of hate crime measures are a rather heavy-handed way to correct past wrongs. And, if the record of the cases brought, I'm not sure that they are all that effective.

But, I'm afraid that the wrong that they intended to address still exists in many police departments, prosecutors and courts.

There is a history, that unfortunately continues to this day, of treating crimes against certain groups as less egregious than those committed against those who have more political and social power.

If the justice system would have been fair, in the first place, there would be no justification for these blunt attempted solutions.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Carmen Renee said:


> But that's exactly what the LGBT want. They want special treatment and special privileges. "Tolerance" to them is not actual tolerance, it's total and complete acquiescence to their agenda. And if you don't agree with them wholeheartedly you are a "hater".


Gays don't want "tolerance", they want "equality". There is a big difference between the two.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Oggie said:


> I would say that the point is there.
> 
> For decades, normal was straight white European (but, let's not include all the countries) men. It was celebrated. Heck, that normal was darned near worshiped.
> 
> ...


All I want to know is, can I officially get both mine and my daughter's birthdays changed to another month? Please?


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

To be honest, I don't hate cats.

Only the evil contained within.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

beccachow said:


> All I want to know is, can I officially get both mine and my daughter's birthdays changed to another month? Please?


You think it's contagious???


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

plowjockey said:


> Gays don't want "tolerance", they want "equality". There is a big difference between the two.


You're right, there is a big difference. Like I said, they want total acquiescence to their agenda, not equality. Sexual preference is not the same as gender or race.


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## Emmy D (Sep 7, 2009)

oggie said:


> i would say that the point is there.
> 
> For decades, normal was straight white european (but, let's not include all the countries) men. It was celebrated. Heck, that normal was darned near worshiped.
> 
> ...


post of the day!!!!!


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Oggie said:


> I'm confident enough about my heritage, sexuality, capabilities and moral fiber that I don't think I need to lean on the special privileges and protections that were there for my kind in the past.
> 
> Giving someone else a voice does not diminish my ability to speak nor the validity of my ideals.


Then why demand special privileges and protection for other groups?
Why celebrate gays like they were heroes?
Let's have a national straight sex month, a national white history month, etc.
Why indeed give one group special privileges?
Obama is doing it for votes.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

bluesky said:


> The difference is the level of hatred involved in _targeting_ someone _specifically _because of their race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. Expecting to be protected from this kind of xenophobic violence is not asking for "preferential treatment".


Really?
Maybe the liberals should heed those words.
Most hateful group on the planet.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Oggie said:


> As long as they lead moral and ethical lives, it doesn't involve me.


Moral??? You consider homosexuality as moral?


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Txsteader said:


> Moral??? You consider homosexuality as moral?


Sexual orientation is not "moral" or "immoral". There are plenty of kind, loving, mutually beneficial relationships between consenting adults, both gay and straight - and there are many, sadly, of both orientations that are abusive and toxic. Morality is what you do, not how you are made.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> Gays don't want "tolerance", they want "equality". There is a big difference between the two.


They have equality
What they want is special privilege.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Txsteader said:


> Moral??? You consider homosexuality as moral?


I don't care to judge, it doesn't matter to me.
What I can't stand is the way they have to have a special month, 3 tv channels dedicated to their chosen lifestyle, special privileges they demand, and on and on.
they don't want equality, they want superiority, and if they'll vote for the Thief in Chief and his henchmen, they'll get it.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Cornhusker said:


> They have equality
> What they want is special privilege.


On what planet are you referring to?

How about "don't ask, don't tell" in the military, as just one example?


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

bluesky said:


> Sexual orientation is not "moral" or "immoral".


Uh, yeah, according to God, it is.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

Wonder if it's a paid Holiday for all the rest of us? LOL Sorry just had to throw that in there..


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

plowjockey said:


> On what planet are you referring to?
> 
> How about "don't ask, don't tell" in the military, as just one example?


Ask Slick Willie about that one.
He was one of your guys.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

If you are in the closet, just stay in it...don't come out..and i am sorry i don't think you born with an extra gene or anything else that makes you that way. Still hoping if they celebrate i get holiday pay.... God help us all.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Txsteader said:


> Uh, yeah, according to God, it is.


I respect your right to believe as you wish but I no longer believe in the traditional evangelical Christian God so his "opinion" has no influence on my thinking.


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

bluesky said:


> I respect your right to believe as you wish but I no longer believe in the traditional evangelical Christian God so his "opinion" has no influence on my thinking.


And there inlies the problem with America. The turning away from the Lord.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Rainy said:


> Wonder if it's a paid Holiday for all the rest of us? LOL Sorry just had to throw that in there..


You mean, Gay Day Pay?


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Carmen Renee said:


> And there inlies the problem with America. The turning away from the Lord.


How do you know it wasnt the turning away from the Great Spirit that the Native Americans believe in before Christianity got here, that caused the problem with America?


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> Let's have a national straight sex month, a national white history month, etc.
> Why indeed give one group special privileges?
> Obama is doing it for votes.


Areyou aware this is also
National Aphasia Awareness Month 
National Hernia Awareness Month 
Men's Health Month 
Scleroderma Awareness Month 

Just to name a few things that this month is? Maybe the people with other diseases should start whining about it. Maybe women should whine about it.
Maybe some people need to grow up and stop trying to make everyone fit the way they think they should live.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

Bravo shygal.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Carmen Renee said:


> And there inlies the problem with America. The turning away from the Lord.


No, the problem is that people seem to pick and choose what part of the Bible that they want to remember and which parts they forget...

Why is it that certain people seem to skip over the entire "do not judge" and "love thy neighbor" bits? 

PS- Unless you are, in fact, God you have no place speaking for him.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

Oh Becky that is great!!


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Shygal said:


> Maybe some people need to grow up and stop trying to make everyone fit the way they think they should live.


No harm intended, my friend from the Other Side, but...isn't that what the gay community does to the straight community constantly? The majority of us are very live and let live. 

As for Prsimseed's friend, I am sorry, but here we also have people getting killed for what color they happen to have on their jacket whether they mean to or not. Didn't Son of Sam pick on brunettes or something? Violent people will always find reasons for violence, hatefullness is not partisan. Those of us who believe that these people can live peacefully also do NOT want to have this lifestyle shoved in our faces under every imaginable guise. Hey, a friend of mine just married her gay lover on Saturday. Goodie on them, great people. Doesn't mean I want to see it and face it all the time around every corner. As usual, doing something like this will further divide the country as people WILL resent this "Gay Month" thing. I no longer wish to HEAR anything about this gay guy who couldn't do this or that, it is sheer BS. COmpanies are forced to hire people regardless of qualifications, or face the wrath of...name the group, it will fit here.


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

What part of the Bible says that homosexuality is not a sin? The Bible says love the sinner not the sin. Celebrating homosexuality is not in the Bible.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Jenni979 said:


> No, the problem is that people seem to pick and choose what part of the Bible that they want to remember and which parts they forget...
> 
> Why is it that certain people seem to skip over the entire "do not judge" and "love thy neighbor" bits?


Because certain people don't really understand what 'do not judge' actually means.

Do you suppose it means not to judge between right and wrong, moral and immoral? And _who_ is it that does right or wrong, moral or immoral acts?


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Bluesky,Well I guess you pretty much dismissed God pretty easily. I hope He doesn't decide to do the same to you. I have no problem with someones homosexuality. I believe that it is wrong. I believe it is un-natural. I believe that is a sin. I also believe that I, just as you, are a sinner. I cannot pass judgement on the sins of others while my own sins stare me in the face. I will not however accept the sins of others as being normal or right. These laws and special days, or months or occassions are trying to require me to do so. This will not happen. If this was only about equality I would have no problem. Unfortunately it's not equality but forced acceptance and preferance to a behavior. The question has been raised, if we have a gay month why not a straight month? If there is a black history month why not a white history month? I think an Asian history month is called for too. Why aren't you pushing for the acceptance of beastiality or pedophilia? Haven't these individuals been treated badly by society and ready for acceptance? It seems to be hypcritical for you to support one group without supporting the others. How can you be so judgemental?


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Carmen Renee said:


> What part of the Bible says that homosexuality is not a sin? The Bible says love the sinner not the sin. Celebrating homosexuality is not in the Bible.


So, you are saying that you can quote an actual book, chapter and verse that specifically states that God hates homosexuals and that they are all going directly to Hell? 

PS--- If you are going to live your life directly as the Bible says then women should marry their rapists and be cast out of the community when they're menstruating. Oh, and men aren't supposed to shave their beards.

ETA --- I beleive that "do not judge" means that I am not God, so how could I even pretend to know his thoughts? I know that I have sin, do sin and will continue to sin, so who am I to call anyone else out?

This thread is going in a direction that I choose not to go. Debating religion is not going to get us anywhere. You will not change my views and I won't change your's. So, let's just agree to disagree and be done with it.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

beccachow said:


> You mean, Gay Day Pay?


 Ah,I think the last one of those was about five thousand and some odd years agld Lot and his family didn't hang around for the celebration and the fire works though.I bet some of those folks probably thought old Lot was a bigot,and didn't like them for who they were and probably would have told him so the next time they seen him.

But they never got that opportunity though.Well that is in this life.But the next life,they might can look across that great gulf and hollar at him, and call him one,but I got a feeling they probably lost that feeling of having harsh words for a man that just acted on his belief in God and never hated or hurt anyone.Now had he hated them,then I kinda imagine he'ed be right there with them and they wouldn't have to be hollaring.:help:


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

Jenni979 said:


> So, you are saying that you can quote an actual book, chapter and verse that specifically states that God hates homosexuals and that they are all going directly to Hell?
> 
> Why should I? You have already said I can't change your mind. That's ok. That is your right.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

beccachow said:


> No harm intended, my friend from the Other Side, but...isn't that what the gay community does to the straight community constantly? The majority of us are very live and let live.


I have yet to see a gay person try to make a straight person live a gay lifestyle. Yet I see straight people trying to make gay people live a straight lifestyle every day. Our government does it as well. Thats the big difference. They just want to be left to live the way THEY choose, not the way someone chooses for them


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

EDDIE BUCK said:


> Ah,I think the last one of those was about five thousand and some odd years agld Lot and his family didn't hang around for the celebration and the fire works though.I bet some of those folks probably thought old Lot was a bigot,and didn't like them for who they were and probably would have told him so the next time they seen him.


Um...are you saying Sodom and Gommorah was destroyed because the people were gay?


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## DavisHillFarm (Sep 12, 2008)

LGBT pride month? Geeze, my whole life I was taught June was *Dairy Month*. If you don't mind, I'll enjoy my daily dose of ice cream and cheer on those bovine critters.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

And still my questions go unanswered.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

JJ Grandits said:


> Bluesky,Well I guess you pretty much dismissed God pretty easily. I hope He doesn't decide to do the same to you. I have no problem with someones homosexuality. I believe that it is wrong. I believe it is un-natural. I believe that is a sin. I also believe that I, just as you, are a sinner. I cannot pass judgement on the sins of others while my own sins stare me in the face. I will not however accept the sins of others as being normal or right. These laws and special days, or months or occassions are trying to require me to do so. This will not happen. If this was only about equality I would have no problem. Unfortunately it's not equality but forced acceptance and preferance to a behavior. The question has been raised, if we have a gay month why not a straight month? If there is a black history month why not a white history month? I think an Asian history month is called for too. Why aren't you pushing for the acceptance of beastiality or pedophilia? Haven't these individuals been treated badly by society and ready for acceptance? It seems to be hypcritical for you to support one group without supporting the others. How can you be so judgemental?


This was directed to a single person. I am particularly interested in the answer that singular person gives for this part: Why AREN'T you pushing for the acceptance of beastiality or pedophilia? Haven't these individuals been treated badly by society and ready for acceptance?


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

JJ I used to follow the saying 'There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers' Your questions however have dramaticly changed my stance on that.



> The question has been raised, if we have a gay month why not a straight month? If there is a black history month why not a white history month? I think an Asian history month is called for too.


Tell you what, you can have it after you spend decades harrased, abused, assaulted, and murdered if only for one minor aspect of yourself. Care to be the first to be hung from a tree or beat to death? Somehow I don't see volunteers lining up for that.



> Why aren't you pushing for the acceptance of beastiality or pedophilia? Haven't these individuals been treated badly by society and ready for acceptance? It seems to be hypcritical for you to support one group without supporting the others. How can you be so judgemental?


You can't tell the difference between a wretch that rapes and abuses children and some person who has consensual sex with someone of the same gender?


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

As for bestiality well they need laws protecting them from themselves.
[ame]http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=man+dies+bestiality&btnG=Google+Search[/ame]


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

JJ Grandits said:


> Bluesky,Well I guess you pretty much dismissed God pretty easily. I hope He doesn't decide to do the same to you. I have no problem with someones homosexuality. I believe that it is wrong. I believe it is un-natural. I believe that is a sin. I also believe that I, just as you, are a sinner. I cannot pass judgement on the sins of others while my own sins stare me in the face. I will not however accept the sins of others as being normal or right. These laws and special days, or months or occassions are trying to require me to do so. This will not happen. If this was only about equality I would have no problem. Unfortunately it's not equality but forced acceptance and preferance to a behavior. The question has been raised, if we have a gay month why not a straight month? If there is a black history month why not a white history month? I think an Asian history month is called for too. Why aren't you pushing for the acceptance of beastiality or pedophilia? Haven't these individuals been treated badly by society and ready for acceptance? It seems to be hypcritical for you to support one group without supporting the others. How can you be so judgemental?


Your questions went unanswered until now because some of us have to sleep. 

I wondered how long it would take for somebody drag in beastiality and pedophilia.  And having said it many times here, I'll say it once again - *We're talking about sexual relationships between consenting adults*. Period. No kids, no animals - that's a red herring designed to cloud the waters and is often resorted to by those who have nothing but that and "sin" as the basis of their objection. 

As to gay pride month, black history month, etc - read Oggie's first post in this thread. That says it all. 

And I've not "dismissed God", I've just chosen to not follow the teachings about him/her that are in the mainstream protestant/catholic tradition. What they say he/she says has no weight for me. You may say that I'm making up my spiritual beliefs and that's partially true - but somebody made up Christianity and people choose to follow that path. I no longer do.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Carmen Renee said:


> And there inlies the problem with America. The turning away from the Lord.


And therein lies one of my problems with Christian "America". Too many people make that kind of judgment without knowing what they're talking about. You don't know me. You don't know what I believe or how I live my life. I'd be willing to bet that I'm as industious and upright as anybody in your circle of friends. I've worked my whole life, give freely to charity, have great respect for my elders, have raised six good kids, have never even had a speeding ticket, mind my own business but help my neigbors when needed, and yet because I've "turned away from your Lord", I'm the problem.


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## jerzeygurl (Jan 21, 2005)

Jenni979 said:


> Okay, what happened to your friend is terrible, but how is that any different from ANY person getting beaten?
> 
> Women, men and children get beaten and murdered every second of the day. I fail to see where the death (or injury) of one person is any more important than the death (or injury) of another.
> 
> ...


but some are more equal than others...


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

jerzeygurl said:


> but some are more equal than others...


And have been for hundreds of years and that's the point. "All men are created equal" - But how long did it take to end slavery in the US? How long before women could vote? How long before civil rights legislation was the law of the land? And now how long before our GLBT brothers and sisters are treated as equals?


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

JJ Grandits said:


> * I have no problem with someones homosexuality. I believe that it is wrong. I believe it is un-natural.* I believe that is a sin. I also believe that I, just as you, are a sinner. I cannot pass judgement on the sins of others while my own sins stare me in the face. I will not however accept the sins of others as being normal or right. Why aren't you pushing for the acceptance of beastiality or pedophilia? Haven't these individuals been treated badly by society and ready for acceptance? It seems to be hypcritical for you to support one group without supporting the others. How can you be so judgemental?


Oh..this is rich.
Good grief.

And I REALLY have no problem with someon's homosexuality.
I believe that homesexual partners should be allowed to visit their loved one, the person they have shared 40+ years of their life with, the one they have cooked with, snuggled up to watch a movie with, gardened with, done home repairs with, had pets together with, in the hospital ICU on their final days.
. 
I believe that homosexual partners should be allowed to keep the house that they bought together and worked on together for years after one has passed.
I believe that if someone is a good teacher they should be able to keep their job.
I believe someone should be able to go about their daily lives without the threat of getting beaten in the street.
I believe that homosexuals are people.

That is what not having a problem with homosexuality sounds like..


And pedophilia and bestiality have absolutely nothing to do with this subject.

BlueSky.. you are rocking my world while you stand out on rock all by yourself on this one..
I am here my friend.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I'm seeing that some think that the celebration of the 'difference' is great and okay and deserved.... but why celebrate what happens in the privacy of a bedroom, except to make it an issue?

I don't really see the Hetrosexual month, day, etc. Seems most of them are okay with just being in the privacy of their life.

All being equal, should allow all to remain private and not make an issue of being equal unless they want to make sure all know that they have reason to be treated differently.


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## jerzeygurl (Jan 21, 2005)

bluesky said:


> And have been for hundreds of years and that's the point. "All men are created equal" - But how long did it take to end slavery in the US? How long before women could vote? How long before civil rights legislation was the law of the land? And now how long before our GLBT brothers and sisters are treated as equals?


hmm Did i miss National Women's Pride Month>>>

or National Irish Catholic Month 

Do we even have National Native AMERICAN Month (tell me why we dont)

Or National Asian American Month.....

i know

National Illegal Immigrant Month...i keep hearing how downtrodden they are ...


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

jerzeygurl said:


> hmm Did i miss National Women's Pride Month>>> *March is Women's History Month. *
> 
> or National Irish Catholic Month *March is National Irish-American Heritage Month. *
> 
> ...


I think it's just fine for folks to have a special time for their history and accomplisments to be recognized.


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

jerzeygurl said:


> hmm Did i miss National Women's Pride Month


Yes, you did, it was in March.




jerzeygurl said:


> National Irish Catholic Month


National Irish-American Month is March also.



jerzeygurl said:


> Do we even have National Native AMERICAN Month


November.



jerzeygurl said:


> Or National Asian American Month.....


May.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

AngieM2 said:


> I'm seeing that some think that the celebration of the 'difference' is great and okay and deserved.... but why celebrate what happens in the privacy of a bedroom, except to make it an issue?
> 
> I don't really see the Hetrosexual month, day, etc. Seems most of them are okay with just being in the privacy of their life.
> 
> All being equal, should allow all to remain private and not make an issue of being equal unless they want to make sure all know that they have reason to be treated differently.


Because discrimination against homosexuals is based on "what happens in the bedroom" and *that's nobody's business*. Outside the bedroom gays and lesbians are people just like you and me. They go to work, raise their kids, vote, go out for dinner, tend their gardens, walk their dogs. They are just like us and should not have to hide their relationships simply because it makes some people uncomfortable.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

mistletoad said:


> Yes, you did, it was in March.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:goodjob::bouncy::hysterical::hysterical:

Oh stop! My sides are splitting.
That was awesome!
Smack down.


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## gryndlgoat (May 27, 2005)

I know this is "wiki" but here's a list of "commemorative months" for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commemorative_months

Just noticed: Feb is "National ***********" month, for the person who was wondering when the WASP commemoration was.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Prismseed said:


> You can't tell the difference between a wretch that rapes and abuses children and some person who has consensual sex with someone of the same gender?




Members of NAMBLA don't see them selves as rapists or abusers or children. They think they should be accepted in society. 

_"NAMBLA's goal is to end the oppression of men and boys who have mutually consensual relationships." _


Obama's "Safe School's Czar" Kevin Jennings wrote the forward to the book "Queering Elementary Education". He has also praised Henry Hay (a frequent speaker at NAMBLA conferences) who said _"f the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world."_


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

bluesky said:


> Because discrimination against homosexuals is based on "what happens in the bedroom" and *that's nobody's business*. Outside the bedroom gays and lesbians are people just like you and me. They go to work, raise their kids, vote, go out for dinner, tend their gardens, walk their dogs. They are just like us and should not have to hide their relationships simply because it makes some people uncomfortable.


Have you watched a gay pride parade? Nope, they are NOT like anyone I know at all! No one in my community would dress (or undress as the case may be) like that and parade around in public. Even the excesses of Mardi Gras pale in comparison, to the in-your-face immorality of a gay pride parade. 

Now I realize that not all LGBT's act like that - but the public face of their "movement" is very much like that. And they already have enough of their agenda being taught in schools, we don't need a whole month dedicated to it.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> I'm seeing that some think that the celebration of the 'difference' is great and okay and deserved.... but why celebrate what happens in the privacy of a bedroom, except to make it an issue?



Jeez you people are so fixated on the gay luvins.

This isn't them celebrating hot gay sex. It is them celebrating the fight they have gone through to achieve a status as equals and it honors the people that have succeeded despite half the nation itself being against them. A fight that still isn't over for them and considering the religious opposition it may go on for quite a long time.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

Wags, Nambla is a splinter of the gay community that most of the gay community alienates themselves. You're painting a picture with the most manure clad brush you can find.



> Have you watched a gay pride parade? Nope, they are NOT like anyone I know at all! No one in my community would dress (or undress as the case may be) like that and parade around in public. Even the excesses of Mardi Gras pale in comparison, to the in-your-face immorality of a gay pride parade.
> 
> Now I realize that not all LGBT's act like that - but the public face of their "movement" is very much like that. And they already have enough of their agenda being taught in schools, we don't need a whole month dedicated to it.


You considered the fact it is a 'screw it' cut loose nature after being kicked around? THe people that disrespect society the most are the ones that receive no respect from society. It doesn't matter if you're a gay gentleman or a flaming *** you're an abomination against god in the eyes of 'the good book' so why even bother? Heck I'ld go out of my way to offend you to if that was my life.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Wags said:


> Have you watched a gay pride parade? Nope, they are NOT like anyone I know at all! No one in my community would dress (or undress as the case may be) like that and parade around in public. Even the excesses of Mardi Gras pale in comparison, to the in-your-face immorality of a gay pride parade.


You'll probably want to stay away from motorcycle rodeo weekend here then, and these folks are NOT gay. It makes Mardi Gras look tame. :shocked: 

The outlandish behavior of a small minority within a minority is no reason to deny equality to the group as a whole.


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## jerzeygurl (Jan 21, 2005)

bluesky said:


> I think it's just fine for folks to have a special time for their history and accomplisments to be recognized.



wow the media publicity for those seems to be sadly lacking....wierd....


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> Obama's "Safe School's Czar" Kevin Jennings wrote the forward to the book "Queering Elementary Education". He has also praised Henry Hay (a frequent speaker at NAMBLA conferences) who said _"f the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what thirteen-, fourteen-, and fifteen-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world."_


_

Cripes not this again. Cherry picked and twisted I saw the wreck the last thread was. Thats like saying you like Limbaugh so you must love doctor shopping for Oxycontin and are incapble of making a marriage work. Hays wasn't some Nambla guy. Hays was a civil liberties activist for all gays and a forefront figure in the early activism chapter. Yeah Hays said some weird stuff but that wasn't his main front. Part of Hays deal was it is every americans right to assemble and every american's right to freedom of speech. Even if Nambla is just a waste of time alliance of perverts they are just entitled to speak up as you. Though I pray to god they never make any headway._


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

Also Wags have you read the book, or just crying over the title that was a clear ploy to make your type howl how horrible and give the book free publicity?


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Wags said:


> Members of NAMBLA don't see them selves as rapists or abusers or children. They think they should be accepted in society.
> 
> _"NAMBLA's goal is to end the oppression of men and boys who have mutually consensual relationships." _
> 
> ...


_

Using NAMBLA as an excuse to deny rights to gays is like using Women for Aryan Unity as an excuse to deny rights to women, The Nation of Yahweh as an excuse to deny rights to blacks, or the Nation Socialist Order of America as an excuse to deny rights to conservative white males. *There are perverted and hateful people among us from all political and personal pursuasions but their actions are no excuse for the denial of rights to our citizens. *_


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Nobody's talking about denying rights to gays. The issue is about a Presidential proclamation for Gay Pride Month.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Txsteader said:


> Nobody's talking about denying rights to gays. The issue is about a Presidential proclamation for Gay Pride Month.


Actually people _are_ talking about gay rights, as well as LGBT Pride Month.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

chickenista said:


> Oh..this is rich.
> Good grief.
> 
> And I REALLY have no problem with someon's homosexuality.
> ...


Chickenista, I agree with your post. As I said I have no problem with it but do not expect me to approve of it. The reason I brought up the subject of beastiality and pedophilia is that it generally produces the same reaction in people. I do have gay friends. My children have had gay friends. My oldest daughters first apartment was shared with a gay male friend. I had no problem with this. She had no problem with it. Neither of us approved of his lifestlye. We still believe it is wrong but they are still friends. We would not cause or wish him any harm or deny him any rights that anyone else has. My disagreement is with the SPECIAL treatment. It's kind of like sexual affirmative action. In my first post on this thread I brought up a bill that was defeated in NY by the judicial commitee. Basically it would have given transgender people preferance over nontransgender people. It was not that they are transgender, it was the PREFERENCE! I firmly believe in equality, and I think it should be applied equally. When someone brings up the old history lesson about past abuses they are dodging the issue. I did not perform those abuses and will not take responsibility or compensation for them. "The sun will shine on the just and the unjust at the same time", our laws should reflect the same. 
By the way the just and unjust in that quote is used as an example and not as a judgement one way or the other.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

I don't really have a problem with the gay or lesbians, just stay in closet,and don' let people know, as one has mentioned that what goes on in the privacy of one's bedroom is private.... That is right.... so don't share it with the world. Gay's and Lesbians don't need a day for anything......maybe if they would quit trying to draw so much attention to themselves people might leave them alone and might give them alittle more respect.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Some say gays should be given "rights' - but not pedophiles. Who determines who should or should not be given "rights" - i.e. special privileges?

If Hays didn't support NAMBLA then why was he was he the most frequent featured speaker at their conventions? And why did he say "weird stuff" in support of pedophilia, and if Kevin Jennings didn't support it, why did he fail to report it when he was obliged to as a teacher? 

Again it is not the right to exist that I object to - it is the SPECIAL PRIVILEGES! I object to any group being given special privileges. If all are truly created equal then all should be treated as equal.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Rainy said:


> I don't really have a problem with the gay or lesbians, just stay in closet,and don' let people know, as one has mentioned that what goes on in the privacy of one's bedroom is private.... That is right.... so don't share it with the world. Gay's and Lesbians don't need a day for anything......maybe if they would quit trying to draw so much attention to themselves people might leave them alone and might give them alittle more respect.


So gays and lesbians should just shut up and pretend they're straight? Deny their relationships so you won't be uncomfortable? Continue to hide, in fear that someone will find out and persecute them for it?


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## gryndlgoat (May 27, 2005)

Wags said:


> ?
> 
> Again it is not the right to exist that I object to - it is the SPECIAL PRIVILEGES! I object to any group being given special privileges. If all are truly created equal then all should be treated as equal.


Specifically what SPECIAL PRIVILEGES? I dare you to declare yourself "gay" for a month (after all, it's a choice, right  ) and then go try to "cash in" on all those Special Privileges. Try: adopting, teaching, joining the armed forces, for starters.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Wags said:


> Again it is not the right to exist that I object to - it is the SPECIAL PRIVILEGES! I object to any group being given special privileges. *If all are truly created equal then all should be treated as equal*.


You object to any group being given special privileges and believe that all should be treated as equals? So how is it that you are not bothered by straights being permitted to marry and gays not? That's a "special privilege" if I ever heard of one. One groups can do it, another cannot, based strictly on what? They're different? It's "sinful"? It's a slippery slope? 

_All _adults should have the same rights and privileges - NOT based on race, religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity... They should not be discriminated against in the workplace. They should be permitted to marry the adult person of their choice. They should have the same spousal protections as other married adults, rights of inheritance, and spousal privilege in court.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

bluesky said:


> So gays and lesbians should just shut up and pretend they're straight? Deny their relationships so you won't be uncomfortable? Continue to hide, in fear that someone will find out and persecute them for it?


They don't have to "do" or "deny", why can't they just leave it alone. I don't feel a need to make sure everyong knows that I'm not Gay.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

7thswan said:


> They don't have to "do" or "deny", why can't they just leave it alone.* I don't feel a need to make sure everyong knows that I'm not Gay*.


You can walk down the street and hold your spouse's hand without anybody even batting an eye. I can go to dinner with my husband and lean across the table and give him a smooch and people just smile at the two old folks who love each other. They can't do those simple things without fear and it sucks. Nobody should have to pretend like that.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

bluesky said:


> You can walk down the street and hold your spouse's hand without anybody even batting an eye. I can go to dinner with my husband and lean across the table and give him a smooch and people just smile at the two old folks who love each other. They can't do those simple things without fear and it sucks. Nobody should have to pretend like that.


And we and our children have to pretend this is Normal Behavior!

big rockpile


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

bluesky said:


> You can walk down the street and hold your spouse's hand without anybody even batting an eye. I can go to dinner with my husband and lean across the table and give him a smooch and people just smile at the two old folks who love each other.




Old folks kissing!?!



EEEEEIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEWWWWWWW!!!!!!


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

bluesky said:


> And therein lies one of my problems with Christian "America". Too many people make that kind of judgment without knowing what they're talking about. You don't know me. You don't know what I believe or how I live my life. I'd be willing to bet that I'm as industious and upright as anybody in your circle of friends. I've worked my whole life, give freely to charity, have great respect for my elders, have raised six good kids, have never even had a speeding ticket, mind my own business but help my neigbors when needed, and yet because I've "turned away from your Lord", I'm the problem.


Well, I guess we'll all find out in the end about everything when we all are gathered on Judgement Day. I stand by what I said.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Oggie said:


> Old folks kissing!?!
> 
> 
> 
> EEEEEIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEWWWWWWW!!!!!!


You sound like my kids!


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Carmen Renee said:


> Well, I guess we'll all find out in the end about everything when we all are gathered on Judgement Day. *I stand by what I said*.


Me too. :cowboy:


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Txsteader said:


> Uh, yeah, according to God, it is.


You mean according to YOU your god says it is. I never heard any gods say that(or anything else, for that matter).


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Rainy said:


> I don't really have a problem with the gay or lesbians, just stay in closet,and don' let people know, as one has mentioned that what goes on in the privacy of one's bedroom is private.... That is right.... so don't share it with the world. Gay's and Lesbians don't need a day for anything......maybe if they would quit trying to draw so much attention to themselves people might leave them alone and might give them alittle more respect.


Yeah, history shows that ANY group that "quits trying to draw so much attention to themselves" gets left alone and gets a little more respect. That's what happened to the Indians in America, the Jews in Germany(I wonder why the Jews now say NEVER AGAIN?), and the Blacks in the 50s and 60s. :thumb:


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

FourDeuce said:


> You mean according to YOU your god says it is. I never heard any gods say that(or anything else, for that matter).


Have you listened?


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

7thswan said:


> They don't have to "do" or "deny", why can't they just leave it alone. I don't feel a need to make sure everyong knows that I'm not Gay.


Exactly. I don't need to get in people's faces and yell "I'm straight!"
If they would just shut up and stop making such a huge deal out of it there would be much less hostility.
Every group that is oppressed then starts to gain equality seems to go through this behavior unfortunately. It never helps their cause.


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

Cornhusker said:


> Maybe we should set aside a month to celebrate normal people?


That's awful nice...doing something like that for someone else.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Cliff said:


> Exactly. I don't need to get in people's faces and yell "I'm straight!"
> If they would just shut up and stop making such a huge deal out of it there would be much less hostility.
> Every group that is oppressed then starts to gain equality seems to go through this behavior unfortunately. It never helps their cause.


Making a huge deal out of being discriminated against?!?!? How unseemly of them!!!

What you're saying is if African-Americans had just gone on acting like good ******* and "stayed in their place" there would have been much less hostility toward them and eventually the white man would have given them freedom and the right to be treated as equals? And women should have been meek and subservient and eventually men would have given them the vote out of the goodness of their hearts? And, following this "logic", homosexuals should just continue hiding in the closet and eventually it'll all work out for them? :hrm:


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

bloogrssgrl said:


> That's awful nice...doing something like that for someone else.


ound:




> Exactly. I don't need to get in people's faces and yell "I'm straight!"
> If they would just shut up and stop making such a huge deal out of it there would be much less hostility.
> Every group that is oppressed then starts to gain equality seems to go through this behavior unfortunately. It never helps their cause.


You're painting a picture with a manure clad brush and picking the one subgroup that favors your argument. Not every gay is 'the flaming ***' in fact I know the gays I do know that type royally aggravates them. You're also overlooking that gays regardless how behaved often receive judgment based on their sexuality, regardless how gentlemanly they behave. Further maybe if their sexuality was publicly accepted maybe they would listen when you ask them to pursue it in more proper fashion.

Besides if your closet gay it isn't exactly easy to go looking for your Mr. Right. They gotta do something to lure the guys in.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

For those so adamantly opposed...
Why are you so bothered by this?
How does it affect your life?
Other than the fact that you just don't like it and if you don't like it, it shouldn't exist.
How 4yo of you.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

bluesky, I could only hope that the gays and lesbians would shut up and just go about there business. If they would just not make a big deal out of their quote"lifestyle" most of us probably would not care... but i don't go around as a few others have stated shouting that i am straight, i need a special day... look at us... 
I use to live across the street from two lesbian women, they were very kind folks, in fact when my son almost died one of these ladies was his nurse and she took great care of him..but they never once tossed there lifestyle in our faces.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

chickenista said:


> For those so adamantly opposed...
> Why are you so bothered by this?
> How does it affect your life?
> Other than the fact that you just don't like it and if you don't like it, it shouldn't exist.
> How 4yo of you.


Good questions! And I've got another one that I've asked over and over (and _never_ gotten an answer) when people talk about "defense of marriage". What are you defending it against? Other people doing it? And if gays marry, how *exactly* does that _damage_ marriage as an institution?


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

chickenista said:


> For those so adamantly opposed...
> Why are you so bothered by this?
> How does it affect your life?
> Other than the fact that you just don't like it and if you don't like it, it shouldn't exist.
> How 4yo of you.


Well, for a short time in the 80s, I got snookered into wearing painter's pants.

I didn't realize that they were a gay thing.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Rainy said:


> bluesky, I could only hope that the gays and lesbians would shut up and just go about there business. If they would just not make a big deal out of their quote"lifestyle" most of us probably would not care... but i don't go around as a few others have stated shouting that i am straight, i need a special day... look at us...
> .


and I would guess that 95% of them DONT make a big deal out of their lifestyle. I have never met any gay person that has tried to make a straight person gay.

But you know, thats exactly how I feel about the bible thumping Christians that go around trying to make everyone Christian and shouting about how they are Christians and everyone that isnt, is a heathen bound for hell, etc. Why cant you shut up and go about your business? (collective you not singular) I guess its ok to do it if its something you believe in but condemn other people for living how they believe


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

bluesky said:


> Making a huge deal out of being discriminated against?!?!? How unseemly of them!!!
> 
> What you're saying is if African-Americans had just gone on acting like good ******* and "stayed in their place" there would have been much less hostility toward them and eventually the white man would have given them freedom and the right to be treated as equals? And women should have been meek and subservient and eventually men would have given them the vote out of the goodness of their hearts? And, following this "logic", homosexuals should just continue hiding in the closet and eventually it'll all work out for them? :hrm:


That's absolutely ridiculous and you're putting words in my mouth.
I said people who have been oppressed but are now gaining equality.

You're preaching to the choir about black prejudice. I'm probably one of the least prejudiced people you could ever know and I find your remarks *extremely* offensive. 

Lots of gay people are shoving their lifestyles in our faces. That is complete overkill and only creates hostility. Like I said before, it's not helping their cause at all. I don't care about them being gay, obviously most of them are born that way - there are actual physical differences in gay males brains. It's between them and God, not my place to judge at all.

If all this explaining doesn't help you to understand what I thought needed no explanation, I don't know what else to tell you


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

gryndlgoat said:


> Specifically what SPECIAL PRIVILEGES? I dare you to declare yourself "gay" for a month (after all, it's a choice, right  ) and then go try to "cash in" on all those Special Privileges. Try: adopting, teaching, joining the armed forces, for starters.


Ever try getting promoted in a women's organization without being gay?


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Cliff said:


> That's absolutely ridiculous and you're putting words in my mouth.
> I said people who have been oppressed but are now gaining equality.
> 
> You're preaching to the choir about black prejudice. I'm probably one of the least prejudiced people you could ever know and I find your remarks *extremely* offensive.
> ...


Yes, it _is_ ridiculous, but you _did_ say 'If they would just *shut up* and *stop making such a huge deal out of it* there would be much less hostility. *Every group* that is oppressed then starts to gain equality seems to go through this behavior unfortunately. It never helps their cause."

I did not say _you _are a racial bigot. I simply substituted blacks and women for gays in your "shut up" and "stop making such a huge deal out it" statement. If that offends you, then I'm sorry (but I won't withdraw my point). People who have been discriminated against should not have to shut up and wait until somebody else decides they can have what the rest of us have without even thinking about it.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *7thswan *
They don't have to "do" or "deny", why can't they just leave it alone. *I don't feel a need to make sure everyong knows that I'm not Gay. *



[B said:


> Cliff[/B];4474349]Exactly. *I don't need to get in people's faces and yell "I'm straight!"*If they would just shut up and stop making such a huge deal out of it there would be much less hostility.
> Every group that is oppressed then starts to gain equality seems to go through this behavior unfortunately. It never helps their cause.


Yaw'll don't "need" to [say i'm normal] because there is no hostility toward you. You can marry the person whom you love; you can work where ever you are skilled to do so; you can be whom you were born to be, and on. on. and on. that Gays can not. Bigoted people simply won't allow it... They yell to shut up and get back into the closet.

A large number of people who are also crying 'foul' are parents, siblings and best friends of gays. Those soccer moms morph when their special kids are oppressed.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Are gays discriminated against?

It's not such a far-fetched question.

In the nature of this discussion, discrimination applies to a class of people, not the individual. But unlike a person who is black, or is old, or has some type of developmental disorder, there is no outward sign somebody is gay.

So how can anyone claim blatant discrimination, when the people being discriminated against appear identical to those who are not being discriminated against?

Secondly, how may we define gay? If you had one lesbian encounter during a drunken college party, are you now gay? If you are a priest with homosexual tendencies, but do not give in to your body's urges, are you gay? If you swing both ways like a garden gate, are you gay? Do we base our level of discrimination in direct correlation to the level of gayness exhibited?

Lastly, in all of this LGBT talk, I kinda feel sorry for the transgendered. They are trying so hard to be straight, albeit in the wrong body. And what do they get for that? They get lumped in with all the people that are trying desperately not to be straight.

For people who make up a distinct minority of only about one to three percent of the population, gay folks sure do complain a lot.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Cliff said:


> I said people who have been oppressed but are now gaining equality.
> 
> 
> Lots of gay people are shoving their lifestyles in our faces. That is complete overkill and only creates hostility. Like I said before, it's not helping their cause at all. I don't care about them being gay, *obviously most of them are born that way *- there are *actual physical differences in gay males brains. It's between them and God, not my place to judge at all.*
> If all this explaining doesn't help you to understand what I thought needed no explanation, I don't know what else to tell you


Cliff, are you saying that god made gays' brains differently than non-gays; that god made gays born gay. That the same god made gays' lifestyles that way and then, 'it is between them and god?' meaning something of a punishment to the gay if he or she doesn't lie about how god created them - because ??

Doesn't that sound a little wicked?


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## gryndlgoat (May 27, 2005)

Wags said:


> Ever try getting promoted in a women's organization without being gay?


Gloria Steinem seems to have managed just fine.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Maybe this might not be such a problem but they keep messing with celebrations of other groups, such as christmas, and prayer day.


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

LaManchaPaul said:


> Cliff, are you saying that god made gays' brains differently than non-gays; that god made gays born gay. That the same god made gays' lifestyles that way and then, 'it is between them and god?' meaning something of a punishment to the gay if he or she doesn't lie about how god created them - because ??
> 
> Doesn't that sound a little wicked?


Boy some of you guys just make it up as you go along, don't you. Either that or you really need to brush up on your reading comprehension.
It's been proven with MRI's that gay male brains are different. They have some female characteristics.
Don't know why they are that way, nobody does.
Everybody's lives are between themselves and God, not for anyone else to judge. Geesh, why do I have to spell out what you should've understood from reading my other post?


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

I suspect LGBTs have "Gay Pride" rallies partly for the same reason Christians have events like the "National Day of Prayer" -- to show what a force they are in the community, and to remind politicians of the need to kowtow to them. No?


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

*Shygal








New homeowner!
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 8,236 


Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieBuck  
Ah,I think the last one of those was about five thousand and some odd years agld Lot and his family didn't hang around for the celebration and the fire works though.I bet some of those folks probably thought old Lot was a bigot,and didn't like them for who they were and probably would have told him so the next time they seen him.


Um...are you saying Sodom and Gommorah was destroyed because the people were gay?









YES,and to make them an example of what happens when we disregard what God says is wrong,and we go ahead with it ,saying its right and accept it as right,allow schools to teach its ok, and throw God out the door.

In my humble opinion,a Christian cannot accept a persons gay lifestyle, as being ok.If one does accept it,they are calling God A liar and saying He's wrong or they are lying about being a Christian.

Anything that God calls wrong,is wrong to a Christian,at least it should be.Thats the way I understand it.I could be wrong,but I don't think so.

Click to expand...

*


> *Gen 13*But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly
> 
> Lev 18:22 *22*Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
> 
> ...


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


Wait a minute! I thought it was the _Muslims_ who wanted to kill me, not the Christians! 

Oh, wait -- I guess this only applies to gay men. Back in the days of Leviticus, a little girl-on-girl action apparently was OK. I think Paul spoiled that in the New Testament, however, probably to the chagrin of all the fellows who kinda _like_ that stuff.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

SquashNut said:


> Maybe this might not be such a problem but they keep messing with celebrations of other groups, such as christmas, and prayer day.


Where do gay people mess with Christmas or prayer day? They also pray and celebrate Christmas you know, they aren't some kind of religion or alien.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Wait a minute! I thought it was the _Muslims_ who wanted to kill me, not the Christians!
> 
> Oh, wait -- I guess this only applies to gay men. Back in the days of Leviticus, a little girl-on-girl action apparently was OK. I think Paul spoiled that in the New Testament, however, probably to the chagrin of all the fellows who kinda _like_ that stuff.


 lol,nope,won't any Christians back then,just folks that minded God and did what He said.When people went aganist what God said,they had to pay the price and someone had to collect the wages.
Girl-on-Girl,might be they had not reached that kind of abominations quite yet,or stooped that low..They couldn't have been in the closet,God can look right through the closet door, and if He had seen that kinda goings on,I believed Heda mentioned it.

Perhaps the women folks back then had not forgot what happened in the Garden of Eden, when Eve ette the fruit,knocking out her spot as head of the Household from then on,plus making a deal with a danged snake and getting everybody chunked out of the garden,along with a garanteed death sentence for her, him and the snake,which as a matter of fact,was now crawling in the grass where we can't spot him,and may bite us at any minute,bringing that death sentence quick with the poison.:flame: Fulfilling what God said bout dying.

Yep, that apple or whatever it was,was a double whammy for the woman,but most men see it as a blessing, but would have gladly given up some of the head of house hold, in exchange for a little less yaking and waving a HoneyDo list in front of their eyes every time you turn around.

Nope I can't say the Gay lifestyle is fine.I don't hate them,but I have too much at stake to go aganist Gods word.I already have to die one time for Adam and Eves sin, that I couldn't do anything about.The 2nd death sentence is up to me and only me,I can avoid that one,but going aganist Gods word ain't how its done,especially when you are walking through tall grass with out your boots on. lol EB


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Txsteader said:


> Have you listened?


Are you saying your god can only speak to people who are listening? He's not much of a god if he can't talk to ANYBODY whether they are listening or not. Even I can get the attention of people who aren't listening if I really want to.:kiss: Does that mean I am more powerful than your god?:hobbyhors


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Rainy said:


> bluesky, I could only hope that the gays and lesbians would shut up and just go about there business.
> 
> *Their business like getting married to the person they love? Or maybe their business like visiting their family members in the hospital?*
> 
> ...


Apparently they didn't properly keep it in the closet, either, or you would have never known they were "like that". :huh:


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Nope I can't say the Gay lifestyle is fine.I don't hate them,but I have too much at stake to go aganist Gods word.I already have to die one time for Adam and Eves sin, that I couldn't do anything about.The 2nd death sentence is up to me and only me,I can avoid that one,but going aganist Gods word ain't how its done


So how many gay people have you personally put to death? Because the Bible tells you you're supposed to do that, you know. And it would be wrong to go against God's will, right? 

There are a lot of us (I'm assuming bi's are included, too). Better get busy!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Oh geez. Let a simple explanation help. Ok, so someone's Gay, they sin when they "lay down with their own kind". Being gay is not the sin. It's the second part. Marriage is a Union between a man and a woman, that is done with God's OK. Gay folks need to stop asking marriage to be something that it is not. Find their own thing, that can be akin to marriage and call it something all it's own.Accept it. It's NOT the same, just as a Gay wants me to know they are not the SAME. As far as to judge someone or something, we all have to,we go thru our day deciding wether something is wrong or right,so that we ourselves live withing God's guidelines; we just can't PASS Judgment. Which means to inflict the punishment for a said crime/sin/whatever.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> So how many gay people have you personally put to death? Because the Bible tells you you're supposed to do that, you know. And it would be wrong to go against God's will, right?
> 
> There are a lot of us (I'm assuming bi's are included, too). Better get busy!


 Back then God's people were under the law.God made the rules and His people abided by those rules and gave the punishments that God demanded to those that didn't abide by those laws.
When Jesus came on the scene,He did not do away with the law,but fulfilled the law.We no longer live under the law and are not required to enforce or punish those that break Gods laws.What God called wrong back then is just as wrong today.When we all stand before God to be judged,we will have to answer for how we lived our lives and did our right and wrongs line up with Gods right and wrongs.
In my opinion accepting a gay lifestyle as ok,is just as wrong as someone accepting S&G's lifestyle as ok.When God changes His mind,I'll change mine,but until then,I see it as wrong.

Isaiah 5: 20Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!


Well,I gotta go pick some string beans,back in the pm.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...bian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-pride-month

Emphasis mine.



> NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim June 2010 as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month. I call upon all Americans to observe this month by fighting prejudice and discrimination in their own lives and everywhere it exists.
> 
> IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this twenty-eighth day of May, *in the year of our Lord* two thousand ten, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-fourth.


May God have mercy on us.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Txsteader said:


> http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...bian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-pride-month
> 
> May God have mercy on us.


Maybe if we keep fighting hatred and discrimination then He/She will.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

bluesky said:


> Maybe if we keep fighting hatred and discrimination then He/She will.


I don't believe promoting/encouraging sexual deviancy and sinfulness is the way to gain mercy.


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## mistletoad (Apr 17, 2003)

7thswan said:


> Marriage is a Union between a man and a woman, that is done with God's OK.


Your God has no part, no place, no say and nothing whatsoever to do with my marriage. If straight people want to marry in church that is their business, but it does not make marriage a religious institution.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff 
I don't care about them being gay, obviously most of them are born that way - there are actual physical differences in gay males brains. It's between them and God, not my place to judge at all.
If all this explaining doesn't help you to understand what I thought needed no explanation, I don't know what else to tell you 

Cliff, are you saying that god made gays' brains differently than non-gays; that god made gays born gay. That the same god made gays' lifestyles that way and then, 'it is between them and god?' meaning something of a punishment to the gay if he or she doesn't lie about how god created them - because ??

*Doesn't that sound a little wicked? *



Cliff said:


> Boy some of you guys just make it up as you go along, don't you. Either that or you really need to brush up on your reading comprehension.
> It's been proven with MRI's that gay male brains are different. They have some female characteristics.
> Don't know why they are that way, nobody does.
> Everybody's lives are between themselves and God, not for anyone else to judge. Geesh, why do I have to spell out what you should've understood from reading my other post?


Well, my question to you remains: does it or doesn't it feel wicked for a god to create a gay person only to punish him/her for being gay?

I am just thankful that I am a Christian and that my God is a loving, forgiving and merciful God. I thank Jesus Christ for His grace. My God does not hate.

I see nothing wrong with our Prez' proclaimation.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

A lot of posters on this thread have stated that they are OK with gay, and that still isn't enough. I honestly couldn't care less if they have a month, I could care less if my neighbors are gay, if my friends get married. Do I embrace the lifestyle? No. Do I accept that they have every bit as much of a right to life as I do? Yes. Do they have the right to visit in the hospital (I actually didn't know gay people were banned from the hospital! How on earth does security know?) yes. DO I believe in the biblical meaning of marriage, yes. Is it my place to judge? No. So let me ask you this...

If we are willing to accept gay as a part of life, why are you all not willing to leave it there? Why are you all insisting we must embrace the gay lifestyle with open arms? Who then are TRULY the narrow minded ones here? Nothing will do except complete embracing of a lifestyle that is foreign to us? Just accepting it and acknowledging it isn't enough?


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Shygal said:


> I have yet to see a gay person try to make a straight person live a gay lifestyle. Yet I see straight people trying to make gay people live a straight lifestyle every day. Our government does it as well. Thats the big difference. They just want to be left to live the way THEY choose, not the way someone chooses for them


Shygal, I have to admit a point scored here. .


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

In ICU only family is allowed to visit. Only blood relatives.. mother, daughter, father, son etc..
http://www.bilerico.com/2010/04/sonoma_county_ca_separates_elderly_gay_couple_and.php

This is a prime example..
These guys had been together forever, had all their paper work in order to insure the house etc.. would go to the other one, didn't matter.. a truly horrible and heartbreaking story.
This is what we mean when we say that gay couples have no rights in the hospital and times after.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

chickenista said:


> In ICU only family is allowed to visit. Only blood relatives.. mother, daughter, father, son etc..
> http://www.bilerico.com/2010/04/sonoma_county_ca_separates_elderly_gay_couple_and.php
> 
> This is a prime example..
> ...


Then yes, I would disagree with that as well. But by the same token, so if a straight couple had been living together for 3 years, and in the same situation, wouldn't that also mean the straight couple didn't have that option either?


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

chickenista said:


> For those so adamantly opposed...
> Why are you so bothered by this?
> How does it affect your life?
> Other than the fact that you just don't like it and if you don't like it, it shouldn't exist.
> How 4yo of you.


Because I would like for me and my Kids and Grandkids to have a relationship with my syblings without them pushing the sexual agenda on us.

Yes they know how I feel but they continue.

big rockpile


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

EDDIE BUCK said:


> Back then God's people were under the law.God made the rules and His people abided by those rules and gave the punishments that God demanded to those that didn't abide by those laws.
> When Jesus came on the scene,He did not do away with the law,but fulfilled the law.We no longer live under the law and are not required to enforce or punish those that break Gods laws.What God called wrong back then is just as wrong today.When we all stand before God to be judged,we will have to answer for how we lived our lives and did our right and wrongs line up with Gods right and wrongs.
> In my opinion accepting a gay lifestyle as ok,is just as wrong as someone accepting S&G's lifestyle as ok.When God changes His mind,I'll change mine,but until then,I see it as wrong.
> 
> ...


Thanks Eddie couldn't have said it better but then again when you follow the Word of God you can't go wrong.

big rockpile


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Approximately 1/10 of people are GLBT, so to me it makes sense for there to be a month for them, particularly if that month involves reducing violence and increasing awareness. 

There are scores of religious holidays, and most of those holidays are Christian. 

There is an autism awareness month (April). 

I see no problem at all with adding another cause to the vast list of months and days that nobody can remember anyway. It will mean something to the GLBT community, and if others have an objections to this designation, it will be easy enough for them to pretend it doesn't exist, which seems to be the M.O. anyway.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

Txsteader said:


> http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...bian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-pride-month
> 
> Emphasis mine.
> 
> ...


 You mighty right!If America don't impeach this immoral rascal before his term runs out,we are not the nation I thought we were, and we deserve whatever punishment God sends this way.Just hang on its coming.Getting that oil spill to stop might be the least of our worries.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

big rockpile said:


> Because I would like for me and my Kids and Grandkids to have a relationship with my syblings without them pushing the sexual agenda on us.
> 
> Yes they know how I feel but they continue.
> 
> big rockpile


And why would they change their sexual orientation because you disapprove? It's a wee bit more complex than that, you know.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

Then sit back and let god send his punishment. If you're so perfect you'll be just fine right?

The rapture if it is true it is coming reguardless and all the howling in the world won't change the fact that the crap will hit the fan. So why are you sitting on your duff here if your trusty bible says the second coming of Christ and his army will stand in Israel?


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

Selective quoting of the bible amuses me. Jesus said something along the lines 'You must be a fisher of men' but the religious groups are more akin to kids playing wack-a-mole at the arcade these days.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Well, you do have to realize that, during various times in history, the Bible has been used to justify slavery, non-equal treatment of women, and Tammy Faye Baker's scary clown face.

Let he who is with token, wack the first mole.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Then yes, I would disagree with that as well. But by the same token, so if a straight couple had been living together for 3 years, and in the same situation, wouldn't that also mean the straight couple didn't have that option either?


The straight couple at least would have had the opportunity to sanction their union with marriage. In most places, gays are denied that right (or privilege, if you prefer).

IMO, religious rules should carry no weight in a secular nation made up of people of many faiths (or no faith).


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

GoatsRus said:


> Hmmmm....so any guy/gal could say they *felt *they were female/male just to be a pervert and get in the other locker room..... AMAZING.


Well, I'm glad the bill didn't go, although no self-respecting ladies would have put up with perverted men wondering into their locker room.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

big rockpile said:


> Because I would like for me and my Kids and Grandkids to have a relationship with my syblings without them pushing the sexual agenda on us.
> 
> Yes they know how I feel but they continue.
> 
> big rockpile


BR, 
Not that it would ever be possible, but here are some questions for a hypothetical situation:

Should your kid or grand have a same-sex partner, would you view this child as pushing a sexual agenda on you? Would you allow the partner to stay over for a weekend? 

What would be your response if your kid/grand said, âIâm in love and I want to marry this person?â How would your spouse view these questions?
Just curious.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> Well, I'm glad the bill didn't go, although no self-respecting ladies would have put up with perverted men wondering into their locker room.


Now I'm not weighing in on this issue. I will however say I know of a transexual that is only partway through the procedure (has the bust and the voice but still has the frank and beans) now this he-she is interested in women, which leaves him in a very odd situation of going to strip clubs. Now imagine the kinda fiasco that would result if something that looked like a woman went into the mens room, some drunk gets frisky and finds the frankfurter.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

How about HUMAN BEING PRIDE EON--I get sick of the inevitable disconnect the XYZ pride things do--by default we "can't" have Caucasian Pride, Man Pride, Straight Pride, People of No-Color Pride, Good Entrepenuerial Skillz Pride, ...and then it's for a month/week/day and then you're off the hook, business as usual. No wonder bigotry keeps on keeping on.

I understand the "we rock" vibe--how about just rockin' all the time? DO it, dont' spew it! How about learning and appreciating where you came from, appreciating that in others, and letting people let live, building on the good things that cross cultures. The cream will rise to the top, it will all come out in the wash, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

If there's nothing such as celebrating white straight guy pride, why is there NASCAR?


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

big rockpile said:


> Thanks Eddie couldn't have said it better but then again when you follow the Word of God you can't go wrong.
> 
> big rockpile


Yes! Thank you Eddie. You said everything I wanted to and more. (And way better that I could have.)


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Oggie said:


> If there's nothing such as celebrating white straight guy pride, why is there NASCAR?


:rotfl:


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

FourDeuce, the only way i found out they were lesbians was because they told us. I really thought they were a Mom and daughter.One was far older than the other. They never flaunted their lifestyle in my face.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Prismseed said:


> Now I'm not weighing in on this issue. I will however say I know of a transexual that is only partway through the procedure (has the bust and the voice but still has the frank and beans) now this he-she is interested in women, which leaves him in a very odd situation of going to strip clubs. Now imagine the kinda fiasco that would result if something that looked like a woman went into the mens room, some drunk gets frisky and finds the frankfurter.


Excuse me while I go upchuck.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

big rockpile said:


> Thanks Eddie couldn't have said it better but then again when you follow the Word of God you can't go wrong.
> 
> big rockpile


Fred Phelps agrees.ound:


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Shygal said:


> Areyou aware this is also
> National Aphasia Awareness Month
> National Hernia Awareness Month
> Men's Health Month
> ...


I know you're not saying LGBT is an illness...

Personally I could care less... 

I really do miss nice pictures of the freak shows we use to get regularly from San Francisco's parades... guess it became too common a sight, and lost it's 'what tha ' factor.


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

If I am reincarnated as a pervert I hope that at least I come back as a lesbian, I could deal with that.
If I have offended the person who is in charge of all that I know he will probably send me back as a queer man. With the thought of that I think I'm gonna try to embelish all my good points in hope of avoiding a sure fire lifetime in hell, for sure..........yuck!!


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

I wasn't going to jump into this fray but I have to say what would you do if your child or grandchild told you they were gay? Would your feelings toward them change or would you simply continue to love them?


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

foxfiredidit said:


> If I am reincarnated as a pervert I hope that at least I come back as a lesbian, I could deal with that.
> If I have offended the person who is in charge of all that I know he will probably send me back as a queer man. With the thought of that I think I'm gonna try to embelish all my good points in hope of avoiding a sure fire lifetime in hell, for sure..........yuck!!


Ok. Let me get this straigt. 

You believe in a creator.
You believe homosexuality is perversion.
You believe your behavior in this life determins where you might end up afterwards.
You believe in Hell.
You believe in reincarnation as another being on earth.
You believe the creator determins what you will return as.

Just what religion do you happen to follow?


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

FlagWaver said:


> I wasn't going to jump into this fray but I have to say what would you do if your child or grandchild told you they were gay? Would your feelings toward them change or would you simply continue to love them?


 Well,if I believed that someone was borned gay,I would also have to believe they had no choice as to whether they were or not.

I would accept it,and love them anyway.But thats not what I believe.I believe no one is borned gay and if one of my kids or grand kids were to say they were, or started living a gay life style,I would still love them,but I would feel as though me or our society had failed them.

I know that I never allowed them the thought that I thought people were borned gay and therefore that let them off the hook as far as them choosing to be gay or straight.

So that said,about the only other place they could have come up with the idea that being gay was normal is,that they would have been taught that in public school.Now, if that turned out to be the case,I could not put all the blame on public schools,a large part of that blame would still be laid on me and my wife.

I believe our children are given to us by God and I also believe that God also expects us to raise and train those children according to His teachings and according to his Word.

In so doing,that always left the door open so that if our children ever heard anything or had questions about anything, that just did not seem quite right, or was new to their way of thinking,they would walk through that door with out fear, and ask us their parents what does it mean and how should they handle that particular situation.

We have raised two sons who are now grown and have children of their own,and to the best of my knowledge,are raising their children the same way they were raised.That door that I mentioned has never been closed and never will as long as I have anything to do with it.

We never get to old to have questions about life and no door to walk through for the right answer would leave us to be preyed upon by the world too. Our parents are no longer living and it would seem we have no door for us to get the answers we need to get through this world.

Oh but we do have a door and its the same door my parents used when it seemed they had no door either.That door has Holy Bible written on the front,and is opened any time one needs to find an answer and the answer it gives will always be the right answer to get you through this evil world we live in,that would like nothing more than to change your mind into the worlds way of looking at things.


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## jerzeygurl (Jan 21, 2005)

wyld thang said:


> How about HUMAN BEING PRIDE EON--I get sick of the inevitable disconnect the XYZ pride things do--by default we "can't" have Caucasian Pride, Man Pride, Straight Pride, People of No-Color Pride, Good Entrepenuerial Skillz Pride, ...and then it's for a month/week/day and then you're off the hook, business as usual. No wonder bigotry keeps on keeping on.
> 
> I understand the "we rock" vibe--how about just rockin' all the time? DO it, dont' spew it! How about learning and appreciating where you came from, appreciating that in others, and letting people let live, building on the good things that cross cultures. The cream will rise to the top, it will all come out in the wash, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.


Right :cowboy:


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

First I didn't mean gay people were messing with our prayer day and Christmas. Sorry I need to be more specific I guess. But I have heard some one is.
I don't think every one beleives in the bible. So I am not sure in this case it can be used as an example for this discusion.
What I feel may be more revelant is the time spent in the womb ( Different amounts of hormones ect. in the womb) and early child hood development and experiences, Relationships with parents and other mentors could contribute to how people develope their sexual orientations and personalities.
I realize the idea that harmone contributions from mother to child while in the womb, goes against the idea that gay people are not born gay. But if you look around you and think about the personalities of different people you know. There is a whole rainbow of types from very masculin to feminine in both sexes. This could explain the variations.
Now This is only my opinion and is based only on a old article that I read many moons ago. Sorry no link to it.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Well,if I believed that someone was borned gay,I would also have to believe they had no choice as to whether they were or not.
> 
> I would accept it,and love them anyway.But thats not what I believe.I believe no one is borned gay and if one of my kids or grand kids were to say they were, or started living a gay life style,I would still love them,but I would feel as though me or our society had failed them.
> 
> I know that I never allowed them the thought that I thought people were borned gay and therefore that let them off the hook as far as them choosing to be gay or straight.


Eddie, how old were you when you decided to be straight?

Or were you just born that way? LOL


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

willow_girl said:


> Eddie, how old were you when you decided to be straight?
> 
> Or were you just born that way? LOL


Basically what I was going to say Willowgirl. I decided to have green eyes when I was "borned" too. :thumb:


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> Eddie, how old were you when you decided to be straight?
> 
> Or were you just born that way? LOL


WillowGirl, don't expect an answer to a logical question. Several on this thread remain unanswered. 

With some posters on this thread I think of a phrase, "Me thinks thou doth protest too much milady. " or something like that. With others, I feel sorry for their children and grandchildren who can't be themselves around their beloved patriarch.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Love the person (after all, we _all_ are sinners), hate the sin.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Eddie, how old were you when you decided to be straight?
> 
> Or were you just born that way? LOL


 No I wasn't borned straight,nor gay,But thanks to Adam and Eve I was born into a sinful world that would always try to get me to go aganist whats right and do whats wrong.

I'm thankful that I had Christian parents that taught me the difference between right and wrong and school teachers that also helped guide me through the early years.I do feel sorry for people that did not have parents that cared enough, or anyone to guide them in the right direction.

But even though that seems unfair to those folks,it still does not make what they do right.The scripture that says something like"bring up a child in the way he should go,and when he's old, will not depart from it",theres a lot of truth in that.

Its not always the case,but most of the time it holds true.In todays world,the parents that try to teach right from wrong are in competition with public schools and society,that teach both gay and straight are normal.Thats true only according to the ways of the world,but the ways of the world are not the right direction,that direction is going away from God. As Txsteader said, Love the person,but hate the sin.

*John 15:19*
If ye were of the *world*, the *world* would *love* his own: but because ye are *not* of the *world*, but I have chosen you out of the *world*, therefore the *world* hateth you.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Could someone please explain how is it possible that different species of animals are gay? Are they born that way or is it taught to them. How would you teach an animal to be gay?
Do a little research, get to know a few gay people, try to understand how some have no choice.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

....................Homosexuality is a very big tent , with a lot of variations on the basic lifestyle , but , it also harbors a significant percentage of Pedhophiles masquarding as Priests , perverts like the <Man-Boy> groups , and others i'm not aware of ! The reason that they can exist is because a homosexual lifestyle is By definition perverse in it's very nature . We ,as a society in general have been forced too accept this lifestyle or be called.....HOMOPHOBE , so just shut up and let nature take its course . A pig is still a pig , even when adorned with a Blond Wig and Lipstick ! , fordy


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

fordy said:


> ....................Homosexuality is a very big tent , with a lot of variations on the basic lifestyle , but , it also harbors a significant percentage of Pedhophiles masquarding as Priests , perverts like the <Man-Boy> groups , and others i'm not aware of ! The reason that they can exist is because a homosexual lifestyle is By definition perverse in it's very nature . We ,as a society in general have been forced too accept this lifestyle or be called.....HOMOPHOBE , so just shut up and let nature take its course . A pig is still a pig , even when adorned with a Blond Wig and Lipstick ! , fordy


You do realize that pedophilia and homosexuality aren't the same thing right? Most pedophiles are straight men and NAMBLA is a group of pedophiles not gays. Please educate yourself prior to making gormless remarks.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

EDDIE BUCK said:


> No I wasn't borned straight,nor gay,But thanks to Adam and Eve I was born into a sinful world that would always try to get me to go aganist whats right and do whats wrong.
> 
> I'm thankful that I had Christian parents that taught me the difference between right and wrong and school teachers that also helped guide me through the early years.I do feel sorry for people that did not have parents that cared enough, or anyone to guide them in the right direction.
> 
> ...


So you're saying that homosexuality is taught by careless or Godless parents or school teachers? :stars: 

I'm so glad in my world loving someone is not a sin.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Kind of reminds me of Anthony Burgess' novel 'A Wanting Seed'

I have a couple problems with this.

1. I can look at a person and tell whether they are male or female, white, black, Hispanic or Asian . I cannot tell if they are gay, lesbian bisexual or transgender by a glance.

2. If you want to be equal, don't ask to be special.

Really don't care if you are gay straight white, black or Martian.
Your ACTIONS speak of how you are, not 'special snowflake' laws.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Prismseed said:


> JJ I used to follow the saying 'There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers' Your questions however have dramaticly changed my stance on that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Happens ALL the time! White folks are getting abused from blacks, latinos, gay's, etc... Read the news. It happens everyday. Remember the black guys who raped a young white girl in front of her boyfriend? They killed them both by torture. They used "tools"on her to make her suffer cause she was white. They happend to be in the wrong place at the right time. I saw gays attack white folks because the whites did not believe in thr gay agenda. The list goes on. Come to Los Angeles, you'll see it first hand here, and in a big way!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

willow_girl said:


> The straight couple at least would have had the opportunity to sanction their union with marriage. In most places, gays are denied that right (or privilege, if you prefer).
> 
> IMO, religious rules should carry no weight in a secular nation made up of people of many faiths (or no faith).


Marriage should have nothing to do with the government! Liecense's should be by their religious denomination. If they are not religious, they don't need a "liecense" at all!


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

JeffreyD said:


> Marriage should have nothing to do with the government! Liecense's should be by their religious denomination. If they are not religious, they don't need a "liecense" at all!


If the goverment didn't keep track of the marriages it would be more difficult to make sure we weren't marrying our long lost cousins.
Go ahead and have a gay pride month, but leave our religeous holidays alone, let's be totally fair about this.
It's probably best that you don't quote from the bible and judge others at the same time, makes a person look silly.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

Riverdale said:


> Kind of reminds me of Anthony Burgess' novel 'A Wanting Seed'
> 
> I have a couple problems with this.
> 
> ...


Why would you want to know at a glance if someone is gay? What do you propose a big rainbow "G" pinned to the shirt at all times?


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> Happens ALL the time! White folks are getting abused from blacks, latinos, gay's, etc... Read the news. It happens everyday. Remember the black guys who raped a young white girl in front of her boyfriend? They killed them both by torture. They used "tools"on her to make her suffer cause she was white. They happend to be in the wrong place at the right time. I saw gays attack white folks because the whites did not believe in thr gay agenda. The list goes on. Come to Los Angeles, you'll see it first hand here, and in a big way!


Your logic circles more than a one legged duck- there are "bad" people of every color gender race ethnic group and sexual orientation. Being gay doesn't make a person more prone to violence. 

Can you explain please exactly what the "gay agenda" is?


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

I'm STILL looking for a copy of it. That Gay Agenda thing must have some tight security on it, since even many gay people can't get a copy of it. Only people who oppose it seem to be able to define it and locate it.ound:


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

FlagWaver said:


> So you're saying that homosexuality is taught by careless or Godless parents or school teachers? :stars:
> 
> I'm so glad in my world loving someone is not a sin.


Thats according what you are defining as Love.If its sex with a same sex partner its SIN.You might love it,but it ain't Love.

No that's not what I'm saying.I'm saying if parents or teachers fail to teach young folks whats right and whats wrong,the world will teach them to do wrong.The worlds view of sin is that its OK.

The schools and teachers don't have to teach kids to be homosexuals,all they need to do, just teach them its normal.That leaves the kid thinking straight and gay are both normal.So they can be either one and that's OK.Its not OK,the Bible says homosexuality is a sin.

That's why its wrong to have celebrations for Gay days or whatever.That helps the world get its lying evil message out,that a gay lifestyle is just fine and normal.
But its a lie,its not fine or the norm,God says its wrong and they can have gay days from now to judgement day, and it will still be wrong,and the line of folks going to Hell will just be longer, because all those young minds that needed the truth taught,were taught the worlds lie and now its too late.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> If the goverment didn't keep track of the marriages it would be more difficult to make sure we weren't marrying our long lost cousins.
> Go ahead and have a gay pride month, but leave our religeous holidays alone, let's be totally fair about this.
> It's probably best that you don't quote from the bible and judge others at the same time, makes a person look silly.


First, it's not the governments job to protect me from marrying anyone i choose.

Second, i never said anything about having a gay pride "anything". If gays want to have a pride month, "they" can do it themselves. I will not participate.

Third, where did i quote the bible?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> Your logic circles more than one legged duck- there are "bad" people of every color gender race ethnic group and sexual orientation. Being gay doesn't make a person more prone to violence.
> 
> Can you explain please exactly what the "gay agenda" is?


Sure! To force their lifestyle upon those that reject it! To force us to accept it unconditionaly. To force churches of every denomination to accept their lifestyle choice. If the church refuses to accept them they will sue of course and the church will then have to go underground to hold services. I have seen first hand how violent gays can be when they dont get their way. Go back and have a look at the "protests" in Los Angeles when prop 8 passed. Don't go anywhere near West Hollywood with a shirt that berates gays, you will not live long! They can berate anybody of course cause they are a protected class - NOT! It's their choice to be gay.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> Sure! To force their lifestyle upon those that reject it! To force us to accept it unconditionaly. To force churches of every denomination to accept their lifestyle choice. If the church refuses to accept them they will sue of course and the church will then have to go underground to hold services. I have seen first hand how violent gays can be when they dont get their way. Go back and have a look at the "protests" in Los Angeles when prop 8 passed. Don't go anywhere near West Hollywood with a shirt that berates gays, you will not live long! They can berate anybody of course cause they are a protected class - NOT! It's their choice to be gay.


Tolerance is an agenda? I'll give you a clue gays are not trying to indoctrinate you the vast majority simply want to live in peace just like the majority of straight people.

Greatgooglymoogly homosexuality is not a choice that fact was proven years ago. Please educate yourself.

If I wear a t shirt denigrating (insert your bigotry here) in certain areas I wouldn't live long either what's your point?


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

EDDIE BUCK said:


> Thats according what you are defining as Love.If its sex with a same sex partner its SIN.You might love it,but it ain't Love.
> 
> No that's not what I'm saying.I'm saying if parents or teachers fail to teach young folks whats right and whats wrong,the world will teach them to do wrong.The worlds view of sin is that its OK.
> 
> ...


I'd rather poke my eye out with a stick than live in your world.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

FourDeuce said:


> I'm STILL looking for a copy of it. That Gay Agenda thing must have some tight security on it, since even many gay people can't get a copy of it. Only people who oppose it seem to be able to define it and locate it.ound:


Excellent post.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

> Greatgooglymoogly homosexuality is not a choice that fact was proven years ago.


I'd be interested in seeing such proof of a Scientific nature.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> Tolerance is an agenda? I'll give you a clue gays are not trying to indoctrinate you the vast majority simply want to live in peace just like the majority of straight people.
> 
> *Tolerance is NOT their agenda! Please don't put your words in my mouth! You need to get out more! Their agenda is forced acceptance. And as for gays not trying to indoctrinate, Who is Kevin Jennings? What does he promote in the classroom? And i think you are right that the majority want to live in peace. But a lot are violent.*
> 
> ...


*My point is that gays are prone to violence when they don't like the oppisite view.

There now, that wasn't to hard to understand was it?*


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

FlagWaver said:


> Excellent post.


I did a google on the "gay agenda" and found way more than I wanted to know. Sad, very sad.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

Gercarson said:


> I did a google on the "gay agenda" and found way more than I wanted to know. Sad, very sad.


I hope you don't believe everything you read on the internet that would indeed be sad. There are extremists in every group.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> I hope you don't believe everything you read on the internet that would indeed be sad. There are extremists in every group.


Yes, you should listen to yourself!


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

flowergurl said:


> I'd be interested in seeing such proof of a Scientific nature.


Here's a start there are many references to studies and additional links also. http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus4.htm


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> Yes, you should listen to yourself!


Can you explain please? I find your post confusing.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> *My point is that gays are prone to violence when they don't like the oppisite view.
> 
> There now, that wasn't to hard to understand was it?*


Isn't _any_ group more prone to violence if vehemently opposed? I understand completely and without getting snitty.

Do a search on Homesteading Today there was a long well thought out (for the most part) thread on Kevin Jennings a while back.


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> I saw gays attack white folks because the whites did not believe in thr gay agenda.


Can you please explain something about the above. Were the gays attacking these "white folks" - and by that I am guessing you mean good, God fearing hetero white folks - because they were white _and_ did not belive in the gay agenda? So this was actually a Double Whammy Hate Crime? Good Lord. Those gays will stop at nothing.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> 1. I can look at a person and tell whether they are male or female, white, black, Hispanic or Asian . I cannot tell if they are gay, lesbian bisexual or transgender by a glance.


Actually, history demonstrates that more than a few light-skinned black people have passed as white. Probably many of us would be surprised to find what's in our background if we went back more than 5-6 generations! And certainly some males have passed themselves off as female, and vice-versa. Things are not always as they seem!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> Isn't _any_ group more prone to violence if vehemently opposed? I understand completely and without getting snitty.


No, not every group has to resort to violence.

I just reflect the attitude of the poster i am responding too. And you have been "snitty"!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> Can you explain please? I find your post confusing.


Simple, don't believe everything you see or read on the web!


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> Simple, don't believe everything you see or read on the web!


That is exactly what I said to you thorough research on any subject is simply a given.


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

fordy said:


> ....................Homosexuality is a very big tent , with a lot of variations on the basic lifestyle , but , it also harbors a significant percentage of Pedhophiles masquarding as Priests , perverts like the <Man-Boy> groups , and others i'm not aware of ! The reason that they can exist is because a homosexual lifestyle is By definition perverse in it's very nature . We ,as a society in general have been forced too accept this lifestyle or be called.....HOMOPHOBE , so just shut up and let nature take its course . A pig is still a pig , even when adorned with a Blond Wig and Lipstick ! , fordy


Let's try another approach.

................Heterosexuality is a very big tent , with a lot of variation on the basic lifestyle , but , it also harbors a significant percentage of pedophiles masquarading as fathers , perverts like <Child-porn> groups , and others i'm not aware of ! 

Hmm. Whaddaya know? The same shoe fits on the other foot as well.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bloogrssgrl said:


> Can you please explain something about the above. Were the gays attacking these "white folks" - and by that I am guessing you mean good, God fearing hetero white folks - because they were white _and_ did not belive in the gay agenda? So this was actually a Double Whammy Hate Crime? Good Lord. Those gays will stop at nothing.


Yes, that is exactly what i'm saying. The gay agenda folks attacked LDS members at their own church! It was on the news at the time, but was seriously under reported. You had to be there to see how maniacle the folks are. You could see unlimited hatred in their eyes. They don't like it when you fight back. They seemed to go for the meek LDS members. A nuber of them would start chasing an LDS member and start punching. I don't run, i hit back! You won't see any of them being prosecuted though, cause it's (sniff, sniff) unfair.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Do a search on Homesteading Today there was a long well thought out (for the most part) thread on Kevin Jennings a while back.[/QUOTE]

I am afraid i know who he is, and what his intentions are. Do you? Do you agree with him and his minions?


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> Yes, that is exactly what i'm saying. The gay agenda folks attacked LDS members at their own church! It was on the news at the time, but was seriously under reported. You had to be there to see how maniacle the folks are. You could see unlimited hatred in their eyes. They don't like it when you fight back. They seemed to go for the meek LDS members. A nuber of them would start chasing an LDS member and start punching. I don't run, i hit back! You won't see any of them being prosecuted though, cause it's (sniff, sniff) unfair.


So these gays the allegedly perpetrated the attack...they were black? Hispanic? Republican? What race were they that attacking white folks was part of the motivation?


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

I've always been of the opinion that you will never win an argument with a bigot, so why bother even trying?



Main Entry: bigÂ·ot 
Pronunciation: \&#712;bi-g&#601;t\
Function: noun 
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: *a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance*&#8212; bigÂ·otÂ·ed \-g&#601;-t&#601;d\ adjective 

&#8212; bigÂ·otÂ·edÂ·ly adverb


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

Jenni979 said:


> I've always been of the opinion that you will never win an argument with a bigot, so why bother even trying?


For sport?


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

Jenni979 said:


> I've always been of the opinion that you will never win an argument with a bigot, so why bother even trying?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are most definitely correct Jenni979 but my daughter is a lesbian and has to face the vile spewage of said bigots. I guess it's just a mother protecting her young.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

bloogrssgrl said:


> For sport?


That too! :smiley-laughing013: Thank you for the laugh.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> Here's a start there are many references to studies and additional links also. http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_caus4.htm


Ontario consultants on religious tolerance!

"We will attempt to overcome *our biases *on each topic that we describe."

"We have *been frequently criticized *for our lack of belief in absolute morality."

"We are a multi-faith group. As of 2010-FEB, we consist of one Atheist, Agnostic, Christian, Wiccan and Zen Buddhist."

5 people, no jews, muslims, amish, etc... Yea, i'd say their REAL tolerant. 

Got some links to anyone in the medical or even better, phychiatric field?


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

FlagWaver said:


> You are most definitely correct Jenni979 but my daughter is a lesbian and has to face the vile spewage of said bigots. I guess it's just a mother protecting her young.


I'm sorry that your daughter, or anyone else, has to deal with people like this...


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bloogrssgrl said:


> So these gays the allegedly perpetrated the attack...they were black? Hispanic? Republican? What race were they that attacking white folks was part of the motivation?


As far as race goes, they were mostly young and white. There were a few blacks and hispanics also. I dought that any were republican or conservative.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> I've always been of the opinion that you will never win an argument with a bigot, so why bother even trying?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Homosexuals are not a race or ethnic group! They are a self entitled class. And i don't have to tolerate anything that goes against my beliefs, and i don't! You don't, so are you a bigot too?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> I'm sorry that your daughter, or anyone else, has to deal with people like this...


I am sorry that people have to put up with being forced to accept something they don't belive in!


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> Ontario consultants on religious tolerance!
> 
> "We will attempt to overcome *our biases *on each topic that we describe."
> 
> ...


Perhaps you should post scientific studies to support your view? I provided a jumping off point into a research of the origin of homosexuality that indicated in all likelihood it's genetic or enviromental in the womb with references and sources. So you attack the website? Did you bother to read the research?

I'm not wasting my time I'm sure you know how to use google.


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> As far as race goes, they were mostly young and white. There were a few blacks and hispanics also. I dought that any were republican or conservative.


So why, I wonder, did you even mention race in the first place? As if being gay excluded you as a memeber of the elite white race.

Also, could you please give me a link or two regarding these attacks. I've been trying to do a quick search and, so far, have only found an instance where some protesters attended a prayer service and shouted "Jesus was gay", attempted to hang a banner (described as "profane" by the Right Wing News), threw fliers in the air and, horror of all horrors, two women ran to the front of the assembly and kissed.

I haven't found any attacks where gay folks brutally beat and/or killed heterosexuals. Which is often enough the case when the rolls are reversed.


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> I am sorry that people have to put up with being forced to accept something they don't belive in!


Like, for instance, gay people having to put up with heterosexual marriage when they cannot enjoy the same benefits of a legal union themselves? Like that?


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> Homosexuals are not a race or ethnic group! They are a self entitled class. And i don't have to tolerate anything that goes against my beliefs, and i don't! You don't, so are you a bigot too?


It said MEMBERS OF A GROUP, then only used race & ethnicity as examples...

...and SURE, you can call me a bigot if you'd like... I will admitt to having a biase against closed-minded, hate-mongers who twist the Bible and presume to speak directly for God...


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> Do a search on Homesteading Today there was a long well thought out (for the most part) thread on Kevin Jennings a while back.


JeffreyD stated: I am afraid i know who he is, and what his intentions are. Do you? Do you agree with him and his minions?

I don't agree that he should be in the position he was too close to Harry Hay and his ties to NAMBLA like speech. Read the thread.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> Perhaps you should post scientific studies to support your view? I provided a jumping off point into a research of the origin of homosexuality that indicated in all likelihood it's genetic or enviromental in the womb with references and sources. So you attack the website? Did you bother to read the research?
> 
> I'm not wasting my time I'm sure you know how to use google.


You said: "Greatgooglymoogly homosexuality is not a choice that fact was proven years ago. Please educate yourself."

I asked YOU to prove it, you provided a non-scientific site. You even just posted above: "in all likelihood it's genetic or enviromental". 

"In all likelihood"? That's _real_ proof right there!

How about:

http://www.avert.org/being-gay.htm


The American researcher Dean Hamer published research that seemed to prove that homosexual orientation could be genetically transmitted to men on the x chromosome, which they get from their mothers. *However when this study was duplicated it did not produce the same results. A follow-up study which Hamer collaborated on also failed to reinforce his earlier results.8*

Subsequent research published by George Rice and George Ebers of the Universty of Western Ontario has cast doubt on Hamer's theory. Rice and Ebers' research also tested the same region of the x chromosome in a larger sample of gay men, but failed to find the same 'marker' that Hamer's research had found.9 *Claims that the part of the brain known as the hypothalamus is influential in determining sexual orientation, have yet to be substantiated.10 It is generally thought that biological explanations of sexuality are insufficient to explain the diversity of human sexuality.*

What is clear is that people's behaviour is influenced by their family environment, their experiences and their sense of themselves. Beliefs about sex are initially shaped by family values. Later on these beliefs may be shaped by pleasant and unpleasant experiences of sex and also shape their choice of activities and partners. Throughout their life a person's sense of who and what they are has a strong impact on their sexual development and experience.

Here's another:
http://www.narth.com/docs/bornway.html


From Dr. Dean Hamer, the "gay gene" researcher, and himself a gay man: 

"Genes are hardware...the data of life's experiences are processed through the sexual software into the circuits of identity. *I suspect the sexual software is a mixture of both genes and environment*, in much the same way the software of a computer is a mixture of what's installed at the factory and what's added by the user."

From psychiatrist Jeffrey Satinover, M.D.: 

"Like all complex behavioral and mental states, *homosexuality is...neither exclusively biological nor exclusively psychological, but results from an as-yet-difficult-to-quantitate mixture of genetic factors, intrauterine influences...postnatal environment (such as parent, sibling and cultural behavior), and a complex series of repeatedly reinforced choices occurring at critical phases of development."*--J. Satinover, M.D., Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth (1996). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books. 

When "gay gene" researcher Dr. Dean Hamer was asked if homosexuality was rooted solely in biology, he replied: 

*"Absolutely not. From twin studies, we already know that half or more of the variability in sexual orientation is not inherited."*

William Byne, a psychiatrist with a doctorate in biology, and Bruce Parsons (1993) carefully analyzed all the major biological studies of homosexuality. *They found none that definitively supported a biological theory of causation.* --W. Byne and B. Parsons, "Human Sexual Orientation: The Biologic Theories Reappraised." Archives of General Psychiatry 50, no.3.) 


Should i keep going? I listed scientists, doctors, and their research.

Your turn!


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> You said: "Greatgooglymoogly homosexuality is not a choice that fact was proven years ago. Please educate yourself."
> 
> I asked YOU to prove it, you provided a non-scientific site. You even just posted above: "in all likelihood it's genetic or enviromental".
> 
> ...


I believe I missed the part where it's been scientifical proven that homosexuality is a choice. Isn't that what you've stated as fact?

The link I gave you indicated those same studies.  There is no concrete absolute proof that homosexuality is a choice nor is there that's it's genetic/enviromental however the consensus is that it is not a choice. Sexual orientation appears to be determined in the womb and due to genetics and enviromental sources.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Hey, there are hazardous materials, plastics, paints, etc that cause fish to be gay. If fish can become homosexual, people can. Sometimes it's a choice, other times not. In todays world full of chemical, unknown repercussions, and GMOs, freaky stuff happens.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bloogrssgrl said:


> So why, I wonder, did you even mention race in the first place? As if being gay excluded you as a memeber of the elite white race.
> 
> Because in post #71 there was mention of different races being abused:
> 
> ...


I never said anyone was "brutally beat and/or killed heterosexuals". 


You didn't look much!

http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2008/11/prop-8-enraged-gays-attack-elderly-and.html

Gays are all the Rage these Days.

It seems that the LGBT Americans have decided to take their protest against the passage of Prop 8 ( and similar initiatives in 30, yes count them 30 states) to the extreme and have crossed the border of freedom of speech.

Earlier today a group of LGBT prop 8 opponents attacked an elderly woman in support of the passage of Prop 8. Phyliss and a few others decided to brave the anger and carry a cross in the midst of the protest to show their support for a traditional definition of marriage. Not that I disagree with free speech but HELLO! Just go in the middle of a bunch of angry people and instigate, real smart! That being said the attack is ridiculous. She is an elderly woman, she could not have possibly defended herself against that lard ass protester who was stomping on her cross. 

They had video, but it's gone now.

Also:

http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?i...o-district-gays-attack-a-christian-missionary

I was there. At the Morman temple in L.A. Saw it first hand!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bloogrssgrl said:


> Like, for instance, gay people having to put up with heterosexual marriage when they cannot enjoy the same benefits of a legal union themselves? Like that?


In California, they have the exact same "rights" as non-gays. It is called a civil union. A marrage certificate is a tax.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

I never called you a bigot... I was not even talking about you... I was talking about the group of people who I DO happen to find offensive...

...and what false statements did I use?

I find it odd that the 1st thought you had was that I was talking about you...


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> I believe I missed the part where it's been scientifical proven that homosexuality is a choice. Isn't that what you've stated as fact?
> 
> No, it's not what i said. I was responding to:
> 
> ...


No consensus at all. Read the studies. They say it's a combination of things including choice. Not just genetic makeup!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> I never called you a bigot... I was not even talking about you... I was talking about the group of people who I DO happen to find offensive...
> 
> ...and what false statements did I use?
> 
> I find it odd that the 1st thought you had was that I was talking about you...


Post #214. Since i am rebuting to these posts i assumed it was directed towards me. Was it?

I don't know where i said false statements. What post?


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

...nevermind...


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> Post #214. Since i am rebuting to these posts i assumed it was directed towards me. Was it?
> 
> I don't know where i said false statements. What post?


You and I were talking, and I was responding to something that you had directly posted, but I was in no way talking about you. I don't know you, or your religious views, and I have never seen you quote the Bible...

As per the "false statements" I was under the impression that you were saying that I was making false statements... As I was only giving my personal opinion, I was not sure how anything I wrote could be called "false."

Perhaps I should have been a bit more clear, but I assumed that because you knew that you were not throwing God & the Bible around in this conversation, you would know that I was not talking about you.

Sorry.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> Jeffrey,
> 
> May I ask a question? This is in NO WAY meant to be offensive, I am just curious and I think it may help me to better undersgand your point-of-view...
> 
> ...


No offense taken! And so you know, i'm not worked up about this. My view is keep it to your self. May shock some of you but i have friends that are gay! Really!!! They are i suppose, not typical, because they don't feel the need to share or impose it upon others. They have the same benifits as hetro couples in CA. They don't feel that a piece of paper makes a difference. That's cool with me. What i don't like is being told that if a marrage certificate won't be issued by any given church, that they(the gays) will sue because the church is discriminating against them. Folks don't see the future problem with this. If churches HAVE to allow and perform wedding ceremonies for folks that berate and belittle their chosen religion, and refuse to perform said cremonies, churches will be sued till the cows come home. The churches will have to go underground. What kind of religious freedom is that?

Also, i don't go to church!

As far as tats. That, to me is not a moral issue. Folks with tattoos are not a class of citizens trying to force others to cave to their agenda. 

Being gay is a moral issue. Sorry, but it grosses me out too! I have been married for 18 years, have a 17yr old son and a 16 month old daughter, and i believe in judao- christian values. I have had gays try to force themselves upon me, and i didn't like it! (when i was 16, i worked the late shift as a janitor. There was a gay bar behind the bus stop. Used to get propositioned everynight!)


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> You and I were talking, and I was responding to something that you had directly posted, but I was in no way talking about you. I don't know you, or your religious views, and I have never seen you quote the Bible...
> 
> As per the "false statements" I was under the impression that you were saying that I was making false statements... As I was only giving my personal opinion, I was not sure how anything I wrote could be called "false."
> 
> ...


No worries! I'm sorry i mis-understood!


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> I never said anyone was "brutally beat and/or killed heterosexuals".


Really?



JeffreyD said:


> Happens ALL the time! *White folks are getting abused from blacks, latinos, gay's*, etc... Read the news. It happens everyday. Remember the black guys who raped a young white girl in front of her boyfriend? They killed them both by torture. They used "tools"on her to make her suffer cause she was white. They happend to be in the wrong place at the right time. *I saw gays attack white folks *because the whites did not believe in thr gay agenda. The list goes on. Come to Los Angeles, you'll see it first hand here, and in a big way!


You mention of "white folks" getting attacked by gays is in the same breath as your mention of a white girl and her boyfriend being tortured and killed. You mean to try to tell me you weren't trying to liken one to the other in level of atrociousness? Come on. If not, why even mentiont the two together? 



JeffreyD said:


> You didn't look much!
> 
> http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2008/11/prop-8-enraged-gays-attack-elderly-and.html
> 
> ...


The video link doesn't work for me. Also, your "news source" link is a conservative blog. Forgive me for being a bit skeptical of _their_ agenda.


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> In California, they have the exact same "rights" as non-gays. It is called a civil union. A marrage certificate is a tax.


If I'm not mistaken, the rights afforded by a civil union are only on a state level. Which means if a partner in a homosexual relationship should end up in the hospital in another state, her/his partner may not be afforded the same rights they would have in their home state. Marriage between a heterosexual couple is recognized across state lines.

Also, it means they cannot qualify for any of the tax benefits afforded to heterosexual married couples.

Not to mention family insurance, family discounts, sick leave to care for a partner, etc.

No, they do not have the exact same "rights" as non-gays.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloogrssgrl 
So these gays the allegedly perpetrated the attack...they were black? Hispanic? Republican? What race were they that attacking white folks was part of the motivation? 



JeffreyD said:


> As far as race goes, they were mostly young and white. There were a few blacks and hispanics also. *I dought that any were republican or conservative*.


No, Instead they became politicians in DC.ound:


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Okay, I get it now, Jeffery. Thank you for helping me to understand.

See, I can see where you are coming from. I don't think that a "church" should have to perform any marriage ceremony. I know churches that have refused to marry people because the pastor/priest just did not feel that the couple (straight, in this case) were not getting married for the "right" reasons. They felt the marriage would not last so they refused to conduct the ceremony.

As for being kinda grossed out... Well, I will be the 1st to admitt that seeing ANY couple (Gay, straight, or whatever) making out in public kinda grosses me out. I don't want to see anyone groping in public. But, to be totally honest, I have never seen a gay couple doing that. I see plenty of straight couples (okay, mostly teens) doing it all the time.

I used to cocktail waitress when I was younger and I would get hit on, all the time, by the ladies. It never offended me, and I never thought that they were trying to force me into being gay. To me, it was the same as if some random guy were hitting on me; no biggie.

I'm just saying that "live and let live" is what works for me and I hate the idea of ANYONE being targeted for ANY reason.

This just hits home for me because of that church in Kansas that keeps picketting the funerals of soldiers. My DH just got out of the Army and we were unlucky enough to run into these people while attending the funeral of a friend of DH that was killed in action.

These people were screaming and holding up signs saying that God loves IEDs and dead soldiers... They think that soldiers being killed is a punishment from God for America being so tolerant of homosexuals.

After dealing with those "people" and having them literally mob me and DH, I just can't take people acting like that.

None of that is to say that you are anything like those people. They seem to be the extreme. I am just trying to explain why it is that I feel the way I do.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

bloogrssgrl said:


> Really?
> 
> 
> 
> The video link doesn't work for me. Also, your "news source" link is a conservative blog. Forgive me for being a bit skeptical of _their_ agenda.


So do you want an extremely liberal blog? So then, someone ELSE could say, "your "news source" link is a liberal blog. Forgive me for being a bit skeptical of _their_ agenda." Just because something is liberal or conservative, doesn't mean either one is right or wrong. This is the reason we have science - to find the truth. Of course, they fail just as well as any other human - as evidenced by the many ridiculous diets that people fall for as being Sound Science. Phaw.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bloogrssgrl said:


> Really?
> 
> *Yes really! In what post did i use those words?*
> You mention of "white folks" getting attacked by gays is in the same breath as your mention of a white girl and her boyfriend being tortured and killed. You mean to try to tell me you weren't trying to liken one to the other in level of atrociousness? Come on. If not, why even mentiont the two together?
> ...


*Which link? Wasn't it you that said to use google?*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bloogrssgrl said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the rights afforded by a civil union are only on a state level. Which means if a partner in a homosexual relationship should end up in the hospital in another state, her/his partner may not be afforded the same rights they would have in their home state. Marriage between a heterosexual couple is recognized across state lines.
> 
> *I'm not talking of anywhere else but California. I don't know how other states deal with this issue.*
> 
> ...


*That does not appear to be the case in California. You make the asertion that they don't have the same rights, what does California law say? Maybe i'm wrong!*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> Okay, I get it now, Jeffery. Thank you for helping me to understand.
> 
> See, I can see where you are coming from. I don't think that a "church" should have to perform any marriage ceremony. I know churches that have refused to marry people because the pastor/priest just did not feel that the couple (straight, in this case) were not getting married for the "right" reasons. They felt the marriage would not last so they refused to conduct the ceremony.
> 
> ...


*I understand totally! The difference here is that these protestors aren't asking for a law that may force religious groups out of open America and underground, could happen! *


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"No, they do not have the exact same "rights" as non-gays."

Well, they do if you hold your head sideways and look at it in a certain way and use the definition for "same" that you find in the BillClinton Dictionary of Doublespeak.:hysterical:


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

Heritagefarm said:


> So do you want an extremely liberal blog? So then, someone ELSE could say, "your "news source" link is a liberal blog. Forgive me for being a bit skeptical of _their_ agenda." Just because something is liberal or conservative, doesn't mean either one is right or wrong. This is the reason we have science - to find the truth. Of course, they fail just as well as any other human - as evidenced by the many ridiculous diets that people fall for as being Sound Science. Phaw.


No, I don't want an extremely liberal blog. I would like to see a link to a news outlet - newspaper, local tv, whatever. Blog are notorious for bias. I prefer the more traditional news outlets, even though they can be biased as well. They usually have some sort of actual footage that I can see/hear for myself and put it in context.


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> *Yes really! In what post did i use those words?*


*

Again, if you're not trying to liken the level of atrocity to the torture, rape and murder of the white couple you referenced, why are you discussing it in the same breath?




JeffreyD said:



[Which link? Wasn't it you that said to use google?

Click to expand...

Neither link. No, it wasn't me that said to use google. I was the one that originally asked for links to specific news coverage of the alleged attacks because I couldn't find any other than the one I referred to in post #224 on this thread.*


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> *That does not appear to be the case in California. You make the asertion that they don't have the same rights, what does California law say? Maybe i'm wrong!*


So gays living in California can file jointly on FEDERAL tax forms? Get family insurance through companies based in other states? I'm asking you what California law says since you are the one asserting that the rights are equal.


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## bloogrssgrl (Jan 20, 2008)

FourDeuce said:


> "No, they do not have the exact same "rights" as non-gays."
> 
> Well, they do if you hold your head sideways and look at it in a certain way and use the definition for "same" that you find in the BillClinton Dictionary of Doublespeak.:hysterical:


Yeah, how 'bout it?


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> No consensus at all. Read the studies. They say it's a combination of things including choice. Not just genetic makeup!


I've read the studies and there is nothing conclusive that indicates homosexuality is a choice. I believed that I had read a conclusive study stating genetics and uterine enviroment were responsible for homosexuality but I can't find it now. The point is moot as there is no conclusive proof either way. 

I'm the one that told you to use google.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> Being gay is a moral issue. Sorry, but it grosses me out too! I have been married for 18 years, have a 17yr old son and a 16 month old daughter, and i believe in judao- christian values. I have had gays try to force themselves upon me, and i didn't like it! (when i was 16, i worked the late shift as a janitor. There was a gay bar behind the bus stop. Used to get propositioned everynight!)


What would you do if one of your children or grandchildren told you he or she was gay? I chose to continue to love my daughter just as I did for the 18+ years before she told me she was gay.

Did they try to rape you or did they hit on you? The difference being the choice was up to you to accept or decline. Since you didn't say rape I'm going to assume that a gay man tried to pick you up and you weren't interested. I've been hit on by men and women since I was a teenager as I'm straight I didn't accept the invitations of the lesbians. Or as you stated you were 16 there was the chance you were dealing with pedophiles rather than homosexuals the two are not synonymous.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"I have had gays try to force themselves upon me, and i didn't like it! (when i was 16, i worked the late shift as a janitor. There was a gay bar behind the bus stop. Used to get propositioned everynight!)"

If you don't know the difference between "having gays try to force themselves upon you" and "getting propositioned", you should probably stay away from people of the opposite sex. There are laws concerning sexual harassment which you could easily break by accident until you learn what those two phrases mean.:shrug:


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

FlagWaver said:


> I've read the studies and there is nothing conclusive that indicates homosexuality is a choice. *I believed that I had read a conclusive study stating genetics and uterine enviroment were responsible for homosexuality* but I can't find it now. The point is moot as there is no conclusive proof either way.
> 
> I'm the one that told you to use google.


Those of us who have seen 'special children' from baby to adult and KNEW that there was something special - well - WE KNOW THAT being gay is not choice. That understanding doesn't take a C. Darwin to observe, measure and report - WE know. 

A question of old, "Who the H would choose to be picked on at school; shunned by relatives (including Grandpa and all others that the idiot can convence); and NOT BE ABLE to marry the person you love?

Some of us don't need studies. But we sure get fired up when our children are attacked with hateful language from people who simply can't see life; who choose to judge and condemn fellow Chrisitians as sinners or not normal. In my world it is the old codger who is condemning, who is not normal. 

Sorry, my anger is showing again!!


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

LaManchaPaul said:


> Those of us who have seen 'special children' from baby to adult and KNEW that there was something special - well - WE KNOW THAT being gay is not choice. That understanding doesn't take a C. Darwin to observe, measure and report - WE know.
> 
> A question of old, "Who the H would choose to be picked on at school; shunned by relatives (including Grandpa and all others that the idiot can convence); and NOT BE ABLE to marry the person you love?
> 
> ...


Exactly LaManchaPaul no one would _choose_ to live a life so condemed by the haters of the world. I don't believe anyone that has a gay child needs proof it's the haters that demand it. I get angry as well but more often than not it's pity I feel for them.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

This may have already been covered, but those of you who don't like the idea of a gay awareness month, how would you feel about "Christian awareness month" or "Straight White Male awareness month"?

Personally, I think there are so many this-and-that awareness months that it's essentially meaningless at this point.

I think the concept of gay, black, brown, etc "pride" is rife with problems, though. Sure, everyone should be comfortable in their own skin and celebrate who they are in their own way, without prejudice. But "proud"? Why should you need pride (or shame, for that matter) for the way you were born? 

I might (or might not) take pride in what I do, but I'm pretty neutral on my white, female, straight-ness--that's how I was born and it's not something I created myself. Furthermore, I don't think anyone should be ashamed of the way God made them.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

Cliff
and
BigRockPile

There were posts on pages five and six that I wonder if you'd consider answering.
Thanks. Paul


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Why is it that when it comes to Gay and Lesbian folks..people feel they have the right to judge, diagnose, control or heal? 

I think Gay and Lesbian people don't just want legal equality..of course I am sure that would make their lives easier..

I do not think they want to be considered "special"...considering the connotations...no one would.


What I believe just based on my associations with Gay and Lesbian people is they just want normalacy in their lives.. they want to be left alone to live their lives.. 


And frankly.. It simply is not anyone's place to deny them that.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bloogrssgrl said:


> If I'm not mistaken, the rights afforded by a civil union are only on a state level. Which means if a partner in a homosexual relationship should end up in the hospital in another state, her/his partner may not be afforded the same rights they would have in their home state. Marriage between a heterosexual couple is recognized across state lines.
> 
> Also, it means they cannot qualify for any of the tax benefits afforded to heterosexual married couples.
> 
> ...


*Sorry, i was talking about California. I don't know what the laws are in the other states.

But, in CA they do have the same rights!*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bloogrssgrl said:


> Again, if you're not trying to liken the level of atrocity to the torture, rape and murder of the white couple you referenced, why are you discussing it in the same breath?
> 
> *You missed the point. Go back and re-read my posts.*


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bloogrssgrl said:


> So gays living in California can file jointly on FEDERAL tax forms? Get family insurance through companies based in other states? I'm asking you what California law says since you are the one asserting that the rights are equal.


"So gays living in California can file jointly on FEDERAL tax forms?"

*Where did i say that? Once again you resort to putting words in my mouth.

I have allways referred to California. California law says that gay couples have the same "rights" as non-gay couples. You can look it up for your self!*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> I've read the studies and there is nothing conclusive that indicates homosexuality is a choice. I believed that I had read a conclusive study stating genetics and uterine enviroment were responsible for homosexuality but I can't find it now. The point is moot as there is no conclusive proof either way.
> 
> I'm the one that told you to use google.


*So the point is moot because neither side can prove anything? Ok! I gave you links to experts on the subject.*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> What would you do if one of your children or grandchildren told you he or she was gay? I chose to continue to love my daughter just as I did for the 18+ years before she told me she was gay.
> 
> *They aren't, so it's not an issue!*
> 
> ...


*Depends on what your definition of rape is. Is un-wanted touching considered rape?*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FourDeuce said:


> "I have had gays try to force themselves upon me, and i didn't like it! (when i was 16, i worked the late shift as a janitor. There was a gay bar behind the bus stop. Used to get propositioned everynight!)"
> 
> If you don't know the difference between "having gays try to force themselves upon you" and "getting propositioned", you should probably stay away from people of the opposite sex. There are laws concerning sexual harassment which you could easily break by accident until you learn what those two phrases mean.:shrug:


What is the difference between the two? Seems they could overlap depending on the word definition.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

LaManchaPaul said:


> Those of us who have seen 'special children' from baby to adult and KNEW that there was something special - well - WE KNOW THAT being gay is not choice. That understanding doesn't take a C. Darwin to observe, measure and report - WE know.
> 
> *I'm sure you do!*
> 
> ...


What "hateful" language have i used. So, are you a hater of those who disagree with your opinion? Seems very intolerant of you.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Aintlifegrand said:


> Why is it that when it comes to Gay and Lesbian folks..people feel they have the right to judge, diagnose, control or heal?
> 
> I think Gay and Lesbian people don't just want legal equality..of course I am sure that would make their lives easier..
> 
> ...


*And i don't. I just don't want to see any laws that give them priviliges over others!*


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> What "hateful" language have i used. So, are you a hater of those who disagree with your opinion? Seems very intolerant of you.





JeffreyD said:


> *And i don't. I just don't want to see any laws that give them priviliges over others!*



No JeffreyD, I don't hate you, the sinner; I just hate your sin. That makes me very tolerant, right?

For one to marry the person he/she loves is not a privilege over others. To cohabitate and file "married, filing jointly" is not a privilege over others. Eventually it will come, but NOT IF we continue to remain silent over these absurdities. 

Our children and grandchildren should have equality. They should have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. With help from rational thinkers blacks&whites did it, gays will too. I refuse to remain silent on this any longer.

I don't buy your, "...forced by law to perform ceremonies..." as remotely possible.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

LaManchaPaul said:


> No JeffreyD, I don't hate you, the sinner; I just hate your sin. That makes me very tolerant, right?
> 
> *What, exactly is my sin? That i don't want to see laws that cater to a spicific group of folks who made a life choice that makes them feel entitled to do injustice to those that disagree? Hmmm!*
> 
> ...


Well, i sure hope your right about that. I really didn't care about any of this until i was told several years ago by someone who was a local self-entiteled "leader" of the gay movement in L.A., that _that_ was their primary goal. That was a rude awakening. She also happened to be of a "different" religion. Sad, because i can see it happening! Sorry that your so blinded by your hatred of my sin that you don't think this could happen.

What if it does?


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

You'll still be just another duck on the water.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

Originally Posted by FlagWaver 
What would you do if one of your children or grandchildren told you he or she was gay? I chose to continue to love my daughter just as I did for the 18+ years before she told me she was gay.

JeffreyD said "They aren't, so it's not an issue!"

How would you know? They listened to your view on gays for years and would be afraid to tell you (this isn't a personal you it's for anyone that gay bashes) for fear of rejection from a person that is supposed to love them without reservation. That is so incredibly sad. 

Would you love your child or grandchild if they told you that they were gay?


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> *So the point is moot because neither side can prove anything? Ok! I gave you links to experts on the subject.*


For the second time! The links you provided were the same as the quotes and references I gave you in my first post on the subject. You were so busy tearing apart the website that you didn't read the information.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

JeffreyD said:


> Well, i sure hope your right about that. I really didn't care about any of this until i was told several years ago by someone who was a local self-entiteled "leader" of the gay movement in L.A., that _that_ was their primary goal. That was a rude awakening. She also happened to be of a "different" religion. Sad, because i can see it happening! Sorry that your so blinded by your hatred of my sin that you don't think this could happen.
> 
> What if it does?


What "different" religion would that be? So many bigotries so little time- "different religions", gays, "violent" blacks and hispanics. Anyone that isn't WASP? :grit: 

I don't hate you and your ilk but I do pity you.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

Just a couple more questions.

I have known of a couple of marriages,one the man,his wife and two children, the other just a husband and wife.Both of these marriages lasted at least 10-12 years.
The first one ended when the husband and father left and is spending the rest of his life with another man.The second marriage ended when the woman left to be with another woman.

My question is,aren't these two examples of a homosexual lifestyle a choice? Did they or did they not have a choice whether to marry someone of the opposite sex or not?And did they or did they not have a choice whether to continue their marriages?

Wasn't their desire to be with that person the reason they chose to get married in the first place?And now that same desire changed,and is now wanting this same sex person which is also a choice as well?

*hoÂ·moÂ·sexÂ·uÂ·alÂ·iÂ·ty*

&#8194; &#8194;/&#716;ho&#650;







m&#601;&#716;s&#603;k







&#643;u&#712;Ã¦l







&#618;







ti, _or, especially Brit._, -&#716;s&#603;ks







yu-/  Show Spelled[hoh-m_uh_-sek-****-*al*-i-tee, _or, especially Brit._, -seks-yoo-]  Show IPA 
*ânoun* sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Eddie, a lot of people who are gay enter heterosexual marriages, I suppose because of pressures to conform. I think they desperately hope it will 'stick', but all is does is cause heartache and pain down the road. The choice is not a choice to be gay, but a choice to try to fight their very nature.

I have a dear friend who is gay, he comes from a very conservative Miami Cuban family. He once told me that growing up he would have given anything to be straight as he said it would have made his life so much easier, can you imagine the torture of growing up like that? Terrified of your family finding out who you really are?

Jerry has come out to his parents, but they live in denial. They have convinced themselves that he just hasn't met the right girl yet and that will fix everything...he is in his 40's now.

I think it's just terribly sad.


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

Wolf Flower said:


> This may have already been covered, but those of you who don't like the idea of a gay awareness month, how would you feel about "Christian awareness month" or "Straight White Male awareness month"?


Has anyone answered this question?


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

Tiempo said:


> Eddie, a lot of people who are gay enter heterosexual marriages, I suppose because of pressures to conform. I think they desperately hope it will 'stick', but all is does is cause heartache and pain down the road. The choice is not a choice to be gay, but a choice to try to fight their very nature.
> 
> I have a dear friend who is gay, he comes from a very conservative Miami Cuban family. He once told me that growing up he would have given anything to be straight as he said it would have made his life so much easier, can you imagine the torture of growing up like that? Terrified of your family finding out who you really are?
> 
> ...


 Yes,but the guy I mentioned that was a father of two kids, HAD TO HAVE A DESIRE for the woman, his wife.He could have stayed in that marriage,but his desire changed for a male.Here again his choice.Whats to keep him from changing his mind again and going back to his wife?I know this discussion is :bdh:and no bodys mind is going to be changed,but I see it a choice.


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## gryndlgoat (May 27, 2005)

EDDIE BUCK said:


> Yes,but the guy I mentioned that was a father of two kids, HAD TO HAVE A DESIRE for the woman, his wife.He could have stayed in that marriage,but his desire changed for a male.Here again his choice.Whats to keep him from changing his mind again and going back to his wife?I know this discussion is :bdh:and no bodys mind is going to be changed,but I see it a choice.


It's more likely he always had a desire for men, but "changed his desire" for a female to meet society's expectations. Just because he had sex with his wife doesn't mean that was ever his true preference or that he ever felt true desire for her. Fantasizing and probably the simple desire to have the kids in the first place most likely played a big role. 

I doubt he ever "changed"; he simply lied to his wife. Folks eventually get tired of living a lie.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> Originally Posted by FlagWaver
> What would you do if one of your children or grandchildren told you he or she was gay? I chose to continue to love my daughter just as I did for the 18+ years before she told me she was gay.
> 
> JeffreyD said "They aren't, so it's not an issue!"
> ...


*Yes, unconditionaly!*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> For the second time! The links you provided were the same as the quotes and references I gave you in my first post on the subject. You were so busy tearing apart the website that you didn't read the information.


*I was busy tearing apart your provided website! Ok.

I read the info. It said NO proof that homosexualality is genetic! Read what "the gay gene" doctor wrote. If there's no genetic link, it must be a choice then, no?*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

FlagWaver said:


> What "different" religion would that be? So many bigotries so little time- "different religions", gays, "violent" blacks and hispanics. Anyone that isn't WASP? :grit:
> 
> *Atheism. Where do you come up with this stuff you post? When did i EVER chastise any other group? How do you know my skin color? My Religion?*
> I don't hate you and your ilk but I do pity you.


*I can live with that!*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

EDDIE BUCK said:


> I know this discussion is :bdh:and no bodys mind is going to be changed,but I see it a choice.


Too true!


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

For those who think that homosexuality is a choice, does that mean that you beleive that hetrosexuality is a choice, as well? By your logic, it would have to be.

If you don't have to wake up, each and every single morning, and tell yourself "well, self, today I think I am going to rock it hetro-style..." why would you think that homosexuals do?

We are pregnant with our 1st child, due in a few short weeks... All I could every pray for our daughter is that she is healthy, happy, independent and that she finds someone (one day) that she loves with all her heart and who, in turn, loves her back just has deeply.

Flame away, but her father and I don't care whether that special person is black, white, red, green, Christian, Muslim, short, tall, MALE or FEMALE.

One would think, that with all the OTHER things going on in the world today, that we could find something better to be worried about than the sex lives of people we don't even know.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Jenni979 said:


> For those who think that homosexuality is a choice, does that mean that you beleive that hetrosexuality is a choice, as well? By your logic, it would have to be.
> 
> If you don't have to wake up, each and every single morning, and tell yourself "well, self, today I think I am going to rock it hetro-style..." why would you think that homosexuals do?
> 
> ...


Your daughter is a lucky girl!!! :rock:


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

bluesky said:


> Your daughter is a lucky girl!!! :rock:


Thank you!!!

***is braced for all the flaming that will surely come, later.***


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> Yes,but the guy I mentioned that was a father of two kids, HAD TO HAVE A DESIRE for the woman, his wife.


Maybe he used his imagination? Maybe his wife ran around on him? Beergoggles? Stranger things have happened.


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## tiffnzacsmom (Jan 26, 2006)

A girl I used to work with married a good man who doted on her child and never "pushed" himself on her. She assumed he just had a low libido and was fine with that, until she cleaned out his dresser and found an adult magazine aimed at homosexual men. Turns out he was hoping he'd turn straight by getting married, it didn't work. They've since divorced and remained friends though.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

tiffnzacsmom said:


> A girl I used to work with married a good man who doted on her child and never "pushed" himself on her. She assumed he just had a low libido and was fine with that, until she cleaned out his dresser and found an adult magazine aimed at homosexual men. Turns out he was hoping he'd turn straight by getting married, it didn't work. They've since divorced and remained friends though.


One of my HS friends just found me on FaceBook... I noticed that he was in a committed relationship with a guy... Well, this dude was the biggest tramp in our HS. He would try to score with every girl that passed him.

So, I asked him what that was all about... 

He said he knew from a VERY young age that he liked guys, but he was so terrified of actually being "gay" that he went the total opposite direction. He actually thought that he could "force" himself to be straight.

So, he slept with every chick that said yes, and he was crazy hunky in HS, so that was a LOT of girls... He even has a kid...

He says that now that he is comfortable in his own skin, he is SO much more happy. He said it was like drowning in the ocean, he was panicing and struggling, but once he came out it was like he could finally "breath."


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> For those who think that homosexuality is a choice, does that mean that you beleive that hetrosexuality is a choice, as well? By your logic, it would have to be.
> 
> *No, i don't believe it is a choice. We were designed for procreating. That's why there are BOTH men and woman. Two guys, two girls = no babies.*
> 
> ...


*When their sex lives may interfere with the rights of others, we need to worry.*


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Okay...

Does anyone recall that not too, too long ago it was illegal for people of different races to marry??? Do we still think that was "okay"???

Ignorant people made all sorts of arguements about making that legal and giving those couples the same rights as same-race couples. A lot of churches refused to conduct religious services for those marriages, as well.

...and if you can "choose" what gender you are atracted to, then you should be able to choose what race you are attracted to, right?

Now, call me crazy, but I don't see aywhere in history where giving mixed-race couples the right to marry and have the same rights as same-race couples has caused the decay of the world.

To me, this is the same thing... It's us, as a society, evolving. Things CANNOT just stagnate and stay the same for eternity.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> *When their sex lives may interfere with the rights of others, we need to worry.*


And how do you see that happening?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bluesky said:


> And how do you see that happening?


Please read post #270.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

JeffreyD - Just because one person tells you that his/her "agenda" is to gain rights beyond what the rest of us have doesn't make it so for the majority of homosexuals who simply want an end to discrimination and want to be allowed to live their lives as the rest of us do. 

I'm happy to say that I believe you are fighting a losing battle and that in the near future homosexuals will be afforded the same rights as heterosexuals. It's long over due.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bluesky said:


> JeffreyD - Just because one person tells you that his/her "agenda" is to gain rights beyond what the rest of us have doesn't make it so for the majority of homosexuals who simply want an end to discrimination and want to be allowed to live their lives as the rest of us do.
> 
> I'm happy to say that I believe you are fighting a losing battle and that in the near future homosexuals will be afforded the same rights as heterosexuals. It's long over due.


*Why should i not trust what this person told me? 

What if she's right? What would you do then?*


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> *When their sex lives may interfere with the rights of others, we need to worry.*





JeffreyD said:


> *Why should i not trust what this person told me?
> 
> What if she's right? What would you do then?*


And what do you _know_ that makes you believe her? 

And do you mean what would I do if homosexuals suddenly became more equal than the rest of us? I'll wager a year's salary that's not going to happen but if it did I guess we straights would know how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot. 

And that's really the issue here. It's always the same thing from those who oppose granting rights to minorities. They're afraid they're going to lose something by allowing others to have the same rights they do. It was the same song and dance during the civil rights movement. It's totally fear-based and kind of pitiful.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bluesky said:


> And what do you _know_ that makes you believe her?
> 
> And do you mean what would I do if homosexuals suddenly became more equal than the rest of us? I'll wager a year's salary that's not going to happen but if it did I guess we straights would know how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot.
> 
> ...


*Please, i asked you a couple of questions. I'll ask again.

Why should i not trust what this person told me? 

What if she's right? What would you do then? *


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> *Please, i asked you a couple of questions. I'll ask again.
> 
> Why should i not trust what this person told me?
> 
> What if she's right? What would you do then? *


Maybe you SHOULD believe this one lady. Perhaps this is her PERSONAL agenda... That being said, no one person has the right to speak for EVERYONE. (even if she says that she is the leader of some group)

I could jump on a soapbox and proclaim myself queen and declare that all women born in Texas, in 1979 with brown hair and brown eyes should be given special treatment. I could hire people to lobby for for me, stage protests and plaster the US with billboards... It still won't happen...

Just like there are radical anti-gay folk (re: Phelps and his crew), there are radical pro-gay people. In my opinion, they are just as insane...

I would NEVER want someone to judge me based on what 1 radical, racist KKK member has to say. We may both be white and Christian, but that doesn't meant hat we have the same ideas and ideals.


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## FlagWaver (Aug 30, 2009)

Dealing with gormless bigots gives me a massive headache I have a business to run and a full life as well. Haters will always hate that's just who they are... 

Jenni979 Congratulations on your soon to be baby girl. With your open mind she's sure to be happy.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> *Please, i asked you a couple of questions. I'll ask again.
> 
> Why should i not trust what this person told me?
> 
> What if she's right? What would you do then? *


And I'll try again too. There is no reason you should not believe that this person's opinion is as she states as long as you otherwise know her to be trustworthy, however the problem comes when you believe that she speaks for others, particularly a large and very diverse group. Sounds like she was expressing her opinion and perhaps that of her close associates but speaking for gays in general? Not so much. That's like saying _all_ women want ____, _all_ Republicans want ____, _all_ farmers want ______. Such generalizations are never correct. Obviously you can believe her if you wish but anytime someone says _all_ of anything it's a red flag that they're speaking of their _personal_ agenda. 

So what if she's right? She's not, so your question is moot, although I did answer it hypothetically.

And again I'll state, as I did before, you have apparently bought into the classic fear tactic of those who wish to continue discrimination - we'll lose our rights if we let "them" have the same.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

bluesky said:


> JeffreyD - Just because one person tells you that his/her "agenda" is to gain rights beyond what the rest of us have doesn't make it so for the majority of homosexuals who simply want an end to discrimination and want to be allowed to live their lives as the rest of us do.
> 
> I'm happy to say that I believe you are fighting a losing battle and that in the near future homosexuals will be afforded the same rights as heterosexuals. It's long over due.


There was a comedian on tv the other day who said he had to cut his act short so he could run over to the local school and recruit some kids, sneak into the courthouse and change the laws against gay marriage, and take care of the destruction of the traditional family and institution of marriage. 
He was making fun of the so-called "Gay Agenda".:run:


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

Jenni979 said:


> For those who think that homosexuality is a choice, does that mean that you beleive that hetrosexuality is a choice, as well? By your logic, it would have to be.
> 
> If you don't have to wake up, each and every single morning, and tell yourself "well, self, today I think I am going to rock it hetro-style..." why would you think that homosexuals do?
> 
> ...


Bite your tongue! Don't you know that controlling the sex lives of people we don't even know is THE most important thing in the world today. It's essential we do that to ensure the survival of mankind.:nana:


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

JeffreyD said:


> *And i don't. I just don't want to see any laws that give them priviliges over others!*


No church should ever be obligated or forced to marry anyone...either straight or gay... a chuch should have complete say over who they marry or not without concern and should be protected under law to exercise this freedom. Just as Catholic hospitals should not be forced to allow abortions in their hospitals.. They are sort of a conscientious objector if you will..I know of no gay people who want a church to be forced to perform the ceremony


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Tiempo said:


> Eddie, a lot of people who are gay enter heterosexual marriages, I suppose because of pressures to conform. I think they desperately hope it will 'stick', but all is does is cause heartache and pain down the road. The choice is not a choice to be gay, but a choice to try to fight their very nature.
> 
> I have a dear friend who is gay, he comes from a very conservative Miami Cuban family. He once told me that growing up he would have given anything to be straight as he said it would have made his life so much easier, can you imagine the torture of growing up like that? Terrified of your family finding out who you really are?
> 
> ...


I agree.. I cannot imagine allowing my own child to be this unhappy.. sad


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Jenni979 said:


> For those who think that homosexuality is a choice, does that mean that you beleive that hetrosexuality is a choice, as well? By your logic, it would have to be.
> 
> If you don't have to wake up, each and every single morning, and tell yourself "well, self, today I think I am going to rock it hetro-style..." why would you think that homosexuals do?
> 
> ...



As it should be..My Dh and I raised four beautiful children this way.. and our "variety pack" family suits us just fine...


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Aintlifegrand said:


> No church should ever be obligated or forced to marry anyone...either straight or gay... a chuch should have complete say over who they marry or not without concern and should be protected under law to exercise this freedom. Just as Catholic hospitals should not be forced to allow abortions in their hospitals.. They are sort of a conscientious objector if you will..I know of no gay people who want a church to be forced to perform the ceremony


You don't, but i do! Have you asked?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bluesky said:


> And I'll try again too. There is no reason you should not believe that this person's opinion is as she states as long as you otherwise know her to be trustworthy, however the problem comes when you believe that she speaks for others, particularly a large and very diverse group. Sounds like she was expressing her opinion and perhaps that of her close associates but speaking for gays in general? Not so much. That's like saying _all_ women want ____, _all_ Republicans want ____, _all_ farmers want ______. Such generalizations are never correct. Obviously you can believe her if you wish but anytime someone says _all_ of anything it's a red flag that they're speaking of their _personal_ agenda.
> 
> *She was speaking in front of a rather large audience who seemed to agree with her.*
> 
> ...


*Yup, that meeting sure opened my eyes.*


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Speaking in front of a "rather large audience" that "seemed to agree with her" gives her credibilty in your eyes? Well, okay then. :huh:

My previous answer to your "what if" question: "And do you mean what would I do if homosexuals suddenly became more equal than the rest of us? I'll wager a year's salary that's not going to happen but if it did I guess we straights would know how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot."


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## moonspirit (Dec 22, 2009)

Its funny JeffreyD is so against gay people and homosexual rights yet he has made the most posts in this topic. you are so full of hatred it has become a sad sight watching you continually reply to this topic. its a good thing you live in the sticks, not only because its better that no one has to see or talk to you but because cause you wouldn't survive a day in the city


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

moonspirit said:


> Its funny JeffreyD is so against gay people and homosexual rights yet he has made the most posts in this topic. you are so full of hatred it has become a sad sight watching you continually reply to this topic. its a good thing you live in the sticks, not only because its better that no one has to see or talk to you but because cause you wouldn't survive a day in the city




...............Ah , the Two "H" , words that are applied too Anyone who , Opposes the Gay Agenda ! Hate and Homophobe are thrown around like the Troll title is applied too someone who opposes the majority attitude of a website . I certainly don't hate any gay folks , but I will always oppose their push for a perverted version of the traditional meaning of what marriage has always been . Continually Waving Red Flags in the political faces of moderate and conserative citizens is NOT the way too gain friends in my opinion . , fordy


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

FourDeuce said:


> He was making fun of the so-called "Gay Agenda".:run:


Don't you know what the gay agenda is? You get a free toaster oven for every person you turn gay.

Would those who think minority awareness months are wrong, like to see a "Heterosexual Straight White Awareness Month"? I still don't see an answer to that question.

And yes, there are insane gay people, just as there are insane straight people. Some gay people have entitlement issues, just as some straight people have entitlement issues. You could argue that the experience of being gay, with the discrimination, rejection, and hatred that comes with it could MAKE someone insane.

Everyone is human. 

Sexual BEHAVIOR is a choice, sexual ORIENTATION is not. There are many gay people who choose to go against their desires and are either celibate, or in the closet. They will always have an attraction to the same sex, but are either in denial, or refuse to act upon it--that's a choice, but a sad one IMO.

For that matter, a heterosexual can choose homosexual behavior, for whatever reason. That behavior doesn't affect their desire for the opposite sex. You'd be surprised how common this is.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

fordy said:


> ...............Ah , the Two "H" , words that are applied too Anyone who , Opposes the Gay Agenda ! Hate and Homophobe are thrown around like the Troll title is applied too someone who opposes the majority attitude of a website . I certainly don't hate any gay folks , but I will always oppose their push for a perverted version of the traditional meaning of what marriage has always been . Continually Waving Red Flags in the political faces of moderate and conserative citizens is NOT the way too gain friends in my opinion . , fordy



What EXACTLY is the "traditional meaning" of marriage?

If you are speaking of the traditional Christian views of marriage then, per the Bible itself, women should have to marry their rapists and men should have droves of wives.

Did you know that it is a historical fact that there were gay marriages in some of the oldest cultures (like China) and it wasn't until Christianity became THE religion of the Roman Empire that gay marriage was outlawed. So, in 324 AD, if you were gay they felt the need to put you to death.

There were even gay marriages among Native Americans...

So, I suppose it's all a matter of WHOSE tradition you are intending to use.

Now, I am Christian, but I am still aware that there were religions and cultures in place for thousands of years before the 1st Christian ever walked the Earth. So, maybe we should realize that the practice of condoned gay marriage has been around far longer than Christianity as a whole...

...and guess what??? The world has not come to a screaming halt, yet...

Besides, why should the entire populus be forced to live by someone else's religious standards?


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Jenni979 said:


> What EXACTLY is the "traditional meaning" of marriage?
> 
> If you are speaking of the traditional Christian views of marriage then, per the Bible itself, women should have to marry their rapists and men should have droves of wives.
> 
> ...


.............I'm sure you have stated your facts correctly , that said , I can only relate too my own personal Subjective attitude on the issue as it relates , Too me , currently . All the folks like me who believe as I do , will eventually die and subsequent generations will grow up with attitudes more tolerant than mine , probably . Times will change , laws about mirrage will evolve and BE changed and the population will become more accepting , BUT , I have No intention of changing my attitude(s) about this subject . , fordy:shrug:


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Jenni979 said:


> What EXACTLY is the "traditional meaning" of marriage?
> 
> If you are speaking of the traditional Christian views of marriage then, per the Bible itself, women should have to marry their rapists and men should have droves of wives.
> 
> ...



.............Let me explain the difference between having an online discussion about gay people and How I would treat a Gay couple who had just moved in next door too me........My attitude is that , I would be just as nice too them as they were too , me ! Were I invited over for supper I would most gladly attend , with No hesitation whatsoever , I would also , NOT enter into a discussion with them about MY attitude towards gay mirrage . It would only create problems where none should exist . What they do in the privacy of their bedroom is Their business , OTOH , IF they take evening walks in the neighborhood openly embrcing they are asking for trouble from those who will NOT tolerate such behavior and should they solicit my opinion , I would tell them that they were asking for trouble . I am a very tolerant person for the most part , but , somethings require an overt response , but living next door too a gay couple is fine with me . , fordy


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Txsteader said:


> That, JJ, is an understatement! Incredible.


Some dude walks into the ladies restroom when my girls are in there, I will DROP HIM LIKE A MAN.
This world, has gone mad.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Jenni979 said:


> What EXACTLY is the "traditional meaning" of marriage?
> 
> If you are speaking of the traditional Christian views of marriage then, per the Bible itself, women should have to marry their rapists and men should have droves of wives.
> 
> ...


RELIGION
ânoun 1. *a set of beliefs* concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. 

2. *a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed uponby a number of persons or * *sects*: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. 

3. *the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:* a world council of religions. 

4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion. 

5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. 

6. *something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:* to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

I whole heartedly agree with YOUR statement of:

*why should the entire populus be forced to live by someone else's religious standards?

*Global warming, is a religion.
GLBT , is a religion.
Green Peace is a religion.
____________(fill in the blank) Pride day, week, month, is a religion.

All of these 'special interest, I am different look at me BUT DON'T JUDGE ME AND GIVE ME RIGHTS AND DO THINGS MY WAY' groups are practicing their OWN religion, based upon the English definition.
These groups want "religions freedom" yet they want everyone else to conform TO THEIR RELIGION.
Huh.....funny. That doesn't sound like freedom to me?

Yeah, so, I have no patience for those who think their RELIGION is better than someone else's RELIGION. It's all religion...and none of it counts......James 1:26-27.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

fordy said:


> .............Let me explain the difference between having an online discussion about gay people and How I would treat a Gay couple who had just moved in next door too me........My attitude is that , I would be just as nice too them as they were too , me ! Were I invited over for supper I would most gladly attend , with No hesitation whatsoever , I would also , NOT enter into a discussion with them about MY attitude towards gay mirrage . It would only create problems where none should exist . What they do in the privacy of their bedroom is Their business , OTOH , IF they take evening walks in the neighborhood openly embrcing they are asking for trouble from those who will NOT tolerate such behavior and should they solicit my opinion , I would tell them that they were asking for trouble . I am a very tolerant person for the most part , but , somethings require an overt response , but living next door too a gay couple is fine with me . , fordy


Do you take walks aroud the block, holding hands with your SO? Or give them hugs in public?

If you didn't know me and saw me walking in your line of sight, and I gave a hug & peck to the blonde lady walking next to me, would that offend you? You would get yourself all in a tizzy over that?

I walk around with my friends (female friends & even my sister) with arms linked and we often hug and sometimes we give each other pecks "hello" and "goodbye". If you didn't know me what would give you the right to decide that I was morally corrupt?

I totally get not wanting to see people making out & groping on the street. I don't want to see that in either a straight or a gay couple.

Now, if you see them hugging and it puts you off, then so be it. If they ask you what your beliefs are then, by all means, let fly. But, I agree that there are some comments that need to be kept private. Why start issues where you don't have to?

I'm just not sure who died and made you the moral arbiter for the rest of the world...


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Some dude walks into the ladies restroom when my girls are in there, I will DROP HIM LIKE A MAN.
> This world, has gone mad.


I actually agree 100% with this.

Unless you have lady parts, stay out of the lady's room.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> Yup, that meeting sure opened my eyes.


You know some idiots in a meeting does not equate to the entire populace of that kind. That's like saying every African American is a Black Panther or every white person in the 60s/70s was a hippie.

Again they're just like us except gay, which means they have idiots too.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Prismseed said:


> You know some idiots in a meeting does not equate to the entire populace of that kind. That's like saying every African American is a Black Panther or every white person in the 60s/70s was a hippie.
> 
> Again they're just like us except gay, which means they have idiots too.


All it takes is 1(one) person to sue! What would you do if they did? I keep asking this, but nobody will answer.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> All it takes is 1(one) person to sue! What would you do if they did? I keep asking this, but nobody will answer.


I suppose I would do (and think) the same thing as when I see anyone sue. I would wonder what the law dictates.

As the law dictates that there is seperation of church and state, and that private organizations are well within their rights to deny membership to anyone, for any reason, I would blow it off.

PS--- Did you READ the law? In EVERY SINGLE STATE that allows gay marriage there are stipulations whithin that very law that prohibits lawsuits from being filed against any religious organization who refused to perform a gay marriage.

The only people who MUST conduct a gay marriage are those who are employed by that state, such as JP's.

This would have also been the case in both California & Florida.

So, it seems that the one thing that you keep bringing up is a moot point.


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

fordy said:


> .............Let me explain the difference between having an online discussion about gay people and How I would treat a Gay couple who had just moved in next door too me........My attitude is that , I would be just as nice too them as they were too , me ! Were I invited over for supper I would most gladly attend , with No hesitation whatsoever , I would also , NOT enter into a discussion with them about MY attitude towards gay mirrage . It would only create problems where none should exist . What they do in the privacy of their bedroom is Their business , OTOH , IF they take evening walks in the neighborhood openly embrcing they are asking for trouble from those who will NOT tolerate such behavior and should they solicit my opinion , I would tell them that they were asking for trouble . I am a very tolerant person for the most part , but , somethings require an overt response , but living next door too a gay couple is fine with me . , fordy


fordy, you have an interesting post. To continue the train of thought of the makebelieve gay couple taking an evening stroll - and they are openly embracing. 

Would you be one of the persons who "will NOT tolerate such behavior?" If so, how would you demonstrate that lack of tolerance?

On the other hand, if you didn't openly show your intolerance but someone else did, would you openly encourage the aggressor or would you openly defend the couple? Or are there other reactions you'd show?

Now, if your loved one (or your child) were with you when you encountered this makebelieve couple embracing in public, would you answer the above in the same way?

Interesting ...


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> I suppose I would do (and think) the same thing as when I see anyone sue. I would wonder what the law dictates.
> 
> As the law dictates that there is seperation of church and state, and that private organizations are well within their rights to deny membership to anyone, for any reason, I would blow it off.
> 
> ...


*My state does not allow gay marriages right now, and since i live in California, nothing is beyond the reach of the 9th circuit! The most over turned appeals court in the nation. I could see them ruling in their favor.

It would be a moot point if the folks at that meeting weren't serious, but they were VERY serious. Untill that point in time, i could care less what gay's did.
Changed my mind.

I would have blown it off, but they were too serious.*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bluesky said:


> Speaking in front of a "rather large audience" that "seemed to agree with her" gives her credibilty in your eyes? Well, okay then. :huh:
> 
> *Yup, it does, as she had an audience that wholy aggreed with her.*
> My previous answer to your "what if" question: "And do you mean what would I do if homosexuals suddenly became more equal than the rest of us? I'll wager a year's salary that's not going to happen but if it did I guess we straights would know how it feels to have the shoe on the other foot."


*Nope, sorry, that was not my question. So i'll ask ONE MORE TIME:

What would you do if LGBT folks decided they were going to sue to force churches to marry them? Which side would you be on? What would you do if it passed?*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

moonspirit said:


> Its funny JeffreyD is so against gay people and homosexual rights yet he has made the most posts in this topic. you are so full of hatred it has become a sad sight watching you continually reply to this topic. its a good thing you live in the sticks, not only because its better that no one has to see or talk to you but because cause you wouldn't survive a day in the city


*It's becoming somewhat interesting the number of folks here that call me names because of an opinion of mine, the name calling, false statements, putting words in my mouth. Pathetic really!

Sooo, please tell me where i said that i hated anyone, and my repeated attempts to alicit an answer have gone in vain! 

Also, i live in Los Angeles. Is that the sticks? No, i think it's THE CITY!

It's really sad to see so many jump to such conclusions.*

Are you the post police? Telling me how much and when i can post? I'm just responding to other posters, like you!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> I actually agree 100% with this.
> 
> Unless you have lady parts, stay out of the lady's room.


*This may change sooner than you think!*


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> *Nope, sorry, that was not my question. So i'll ask ONE MORE TIME:
> 
> What would you do if LGBT folks decided they were going to sue to force churches to marry them? Which side would you be on? What would you do if it passed?*


Oh, that question. Sorry. I thought you were asking something else. 

Um, I don't really care one way or the other. In my opinion many churches hide behind their tax exempt status and push their own political agendas so if they get sued (which might happen) and lose (which probably would not happen), then that's the way the cookie crumbles. 

Personally I'm happy with my civil marriage and don't see the need for anything more and suspect that many others, both gay and straight, feel the same. I don't need the sanctions of a religious group to make me feel married, but I do want legal marriage protections and think homosexuals should be granted those rights too.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> *Nope, sorry, that was not my question. So i'll ask ONE MORE TIME:
> 
> What would you do if LGBT folks decided they were going to sue to force churches to marry them?*


I am really not sure how many ways you would like for this question to be answered. I am beginning to think that just because you are not getting the answer you want, you keep repeating the question...

Even in the proposed Cali law there was a stipulation that cited that no religious organizations would be forced to conduct a marriage ceremony against their will. 

The people who wrote these laws already made concessions to take care of this very issue.

So, go ahead and let them try to sue.

The Phelps crew has been sued and it has even been taken all the way to the Supreme court. Guess what, even though Phelps and his family sit outside of the funerals of soldiers screaming about how they deserved to die, and it is God's will that all US soldiers die a horrific death because the US is tolerant of homosexuals; the courts have found that they are protected under the law.

People sue for EVERY little thing, do you let that upset you too? I mean, someone sued Miley Cyrus in behalf of every Asian in America when they saw that picture of her being stupid and making that ******-eyed pose. Did you freak and wonder if that would start a rash of all ethnicities going sue-happy, en mass?

Why are you so paranoid about this? Is it really just because you listened to one speech by one woman who was cheered on by one group of people?

There were people who made the SAME arguements you are making when African Americans were fighting for equal rights... "OMG, if you give them and ich they will want a mile!!! It's just not fair if they get the same rights as us!!! Whatever will happen to the status quo?!?!?" I don't see where treating people as EQUALS has ever caused any kind of earth-ending catastrophe...


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bluesky said:


> Oh, that question. Sorry. I thought you were asking something else.
> 
> Um, I don't really care one way or the other. In my opinion many churches hide behind their tax exempt status and push their own political agendas so if they get sued (which might happen) and lose (which probably would not happen), then that's the way the cookie crumbles.
> 
> Personally I'm happy with my civil marriage and don't see the need for anything more and suspect that many others, both gay and straight, feel the same. I don't need the sanctions of a religious group to make me feel married, but I do want legal marriage protections and think homosexuals should be granted those rights too.


That's pretty pathetic that you wouldn't care about others religious freedoms. So you don't like the bill of rights? Say's a lot. 

"*Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof*; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


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## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

JeffreyD said:


> *
> 
> What would you do if LGBT folks decided they were going to sue to force churches to marry them? Which side would you be on? What would you do if it passed?*


I don't think churches can be forced to marry anyone. Were a gay couple to sue the church, it would be a colossal waste of time and money. Marriages are a civil matter. IMO the church shouldn't have to recognize or perform any ceremony if they don't want to. It's really a non-issue, since marriages don't have to take place in a church to be legal and binding.

Suing the state for not recognizing a legal marriage, and denying the rights that come with it, is a different matter.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> I am really not sure how many ways you would like for this question to be answered. I am beginning to think that just because you are not getting the answer you want, you keep repeating the question...
> 
> Because no one has answered untill now! That's why.
> 
> ...


*No, it's not the same. Skin color has to do with race, here, it has nothing to do with race at all, so there's no comparison.

You need to reasearch some history about that last statement!*


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> That's pretty pathetic that you wouldn't care about others religious freedoms. So you don't like the bill of rights? Say's a lot.
> 
> "*Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof*; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


You need to take your own admonitions seriously and not put words in my mouth. I'm not a big fan of organized religion but I said nothing about the right to practice one's religion. Churches can preach and teach whatever they want as long (as they don't violate the law). They can refuse to marry whomever they choose, but if they get sued and lose they have recourse through the courts. That's the way the system is set up. At some point, should that occur, the decision will be made that they are either within their rights under the constitution or they are not.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Wolf Flower said:


> I don't think churches can be forced to marry anyone. Were a gay couple to sue the church, it would be a colossal waste of time and money. Marriages are a civil matter. IMO the church shouldn't have to recognize or perform any ceremony if they don't want to. It's really a non-issue, since marriages don't have to take place in a church to be legal and binding.
> 
> Suing the state for not recognizing a legal marriage, and denying the rights that come with it, is a different matter.


Wolf,

I have answered this SAME question for him no fewer than 3 different times... I think he just doesn't like the answers he is getting and he hopes that if he repeats the question enough we will all just give up and agree with him...

Even though in his very own previous post he managed to quote a section of the Bill of Rights that prohibits any "church" from being forced into doing anything.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"Global warming, is a religion.
GLBT , is a religion.
Green Peace is a religion.
____________(fill in the blank) Pride day, week, month, is a religion."

Somehow you overlooked one of the big religions in the US. I'm sure you just forgot to include that one with all the other "religions". Do your standards apply to all of them or just to the other ones(other than yours).
Many people claim they are opposed to religion being forced on people, but when it comes down to it they are only opposed to other people's religion being forced on them. They remain strangely silent when their religion is forced on other people.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> *No, it's not the same. Skin color has to do with race, here, it has nothing to do with race at all, so there's no comparison.
> 
> You need to reasearch some history about that last statement!*


So you are saying that giving equal rights ot African Americans did cause earth shattering catastrophes???

...and about this stupid lady & her "group"... Do you HONESTLY mean to tell me that if I were to wander into a KKK meeting, and listen to the crud they spew, I should alter my thinking to believe that ALL white people are racists???

I mean, you should see how worked up they get, right?!?!?

Tell me, I really want to know: Should the entire world base their judgement of all caucasians on the KKK?


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> * Yup. You weren't there, so you don't know the frenzy that enveloped that group. It was, for a non-gay, who up untill that point, could care less! My gay frends that i was with were astonished and told me they didn't feel that way. It isn't just one person, one group, either.*


*

So your gay friends told you they disagreed but you still believe in the validity of the speaker because the crowd cheered? You seem very easily convinced (but maybe that's because it suits you to believe there's an overall agenda at work).*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> So you are saying that giving equal rights ot African Americans did cause earth shattering catastrophes???
> 
> *No that's not what i said.*
> 
> ...


*"The world should base their judgement on their actions, as in this case! Simple, nothing to do with racisim."*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

bluesky said:


> So your gay friends told you _they_ disagreed but you still believe in the validity of the speaker because the crowd cheered? You seem very easily convinced (but maybe that's because it suits you to believe there's an overall agenda at work).


*Yes, because my friends also told me even though they(friends) disagree, that these folks were to be taken seriously. 

You seem easly swayed as well, and angry too!*


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

JeffreyD said:


> *"The world should base their judgement on their actions, as in this case! Simple, nothing to do with racisim."*


You know, you keep saying that none of us are willing to answer your question about what would we do if the gays sued churches, but you seem to refuse to answer the question I keep presenting to you...

Should everyone base their ideas on all caucasians on the extremists in the KKK?

...and per your quote above, if people were to judge all whites on the actions of the KKK then the rest of the world would think that we all run around burning crosses and lynching people.

PS- the KKK started off being an anti-Catholic group... Eventually they evolved into what they are now.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> *Yes, because my friends also told me even though they(friends) disagree, that these folks were to be taken seriously.
> 
> You seem easly swayed as well, and angry too!*



I've been around a long time and I've seen a lot and I choose my opinions and my battles very carefully. This one is well worth fighting - and I'm not angry, just determined. 

Interesting that your friends were "astonished and they didn't feel that way" and yet were able to tell you the "agenda" being put forth at the rally was being "taken seriously".


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> What would you do if LGBT folks decided they were going to sue to force churches to marry them? Which side would you be on? What would you do if it passed?


Well personally I am against it being called gay marriage, sadly 'civil union' title is a loophole that insurance companies use to refuse to cover gays so it either needs to be called marriage or extensive laws need to be written to force insurance companies to cover civil unions, give how deep big insurance is in politician's pockets just calling it gay marriage is the simpler, smoother, and cleaner route.

As for forcing a church, it's bs. I'm religous but not a church goer, so I'm not going to get heavily involved. If gays tried to force a church however I would remind the optional charges of harrasment and disturbing the peace if they make a scene. Restraining orders might be an option aswell. And well if their rude enough to be screaming and protesting out front on sunday you can be screaming and protesting on their wedding day.  However I'ld also advise that the protest focused entirely on the trampling of you right to freedom of religion, and to **** the gay bashers that just want to wave 'gays against god' and 'queers burn in hell'

Personally I think gays should open their own churches I'm sure the decorations would be 'faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabulous!!'


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> Many people claim they are opposed to religion being forced on people, but when it comes down to it they are only opposed to other people's religion being forced on them. They remain strangely silent when their religion is forced on other people.


See that's why I just made up my own and practice in solitary.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> "Global warming, is a religion.
> GLBT , is a religion.
> Green Peace is a religion.
> ____________(fill in the blank) Pride day, week, month, is a religion."


Global warming is a science, a flawed one perhaps, but a science.
LGBT is a lifestyle
Green Peace is a philosophy well it depends on how much drugs they're doing at the time... but sober days it is a philosophy!

And there is something in one of those old american papers 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' and 'all men are created equal'

If the latter had actually been observed and not only used when it suited people LGBT wouldn't be coming out the closet with the force of an atomic bomb.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Prismseed said:


> Global warming is a science, a flawed one perhaps, but a science.
> LGBT is a lifestyle
> Green Peace is a philosophy well it depends on how much drugs they're doing at the time... but sober days it is a philosophy!
> 
> ...



I posted the dictionary definition.....
Pretty sure the way people "believe, follow, worship, and try to convert others to believe their way (by reason or by force)" everyone in the above mentioned topics, clearly falls under the English definition of practicing their "Religion".

I agree with you that yes, GLTH whatever they want to be called, is a lifestyle CHOICE. Period. But they approach it like a 'religion'.
I agree with you that yes, Global Warming has some scientific terms used, but it is the biggest hoax going (think Jim Jones=Al Gore).......and again, it is approached like a 'religion'.
And the Green Peace movement is a HUGE 'religious' experience.

Think of all the components of 'religion'. Each above topic fits neatly into the 'religion' definition. 

Really......at the end of the day, this is to be expected. Good is called evil, and evil is called good.
R.E.M. said it best.........it's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine!!


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

LaManchaPaul said:


> fordy, you have an interesting post. To continue the train of thought of the makebelieve gay couple taking an evening stroll - and they are openly embracing.
> 
> Would you be one of the persons who "will NOT tolerate such behavior?" If so, how would you demonstrate that lack of tolerance?
> 
> ...


.............I would NEVER say anything too the gay couple , their behavior is their business . The kind of behavior I won't tolerate has nothing too with the gay couple , I was referring too someone trying to steal a car , breaking into someone's home , etc ! Gay couples should always be aware of the consequences of their overt behavior , and I would Never encourage anyone too hurt anyone regardless of their gender preference . My objection(s) too Gay behavior is Philosophical in nature , and , Should I witness any individual trying too hurt a Gay person I would intervene too the best of my ability just as i would with anyone else . , fordy


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> I posted the dictionary definition.....
> Pretty sure the way people "believe, follow, worship, and try to convert others to believe their way (by reason or by force)" everyone in the above mentioned topics, clearly falls under the English definition of practicing their "Religion".


Except for the whole worship part, and the whole lack of an unquestionable divine mandate by a figure beyond reproach yet lacking solid proof of existence outside a person's hope for such. Oh and the fact most religions tend to be spoonfed to people from the moment they have comprehension ability.



> I agree with you that yes, GLTH whatever they want to be called, is a lifestyle CHOICE. Period. But they approach it like a 'religion'.


Do you speak from first hand experience of homosexual tendancies and desires and the choice to suppress them?



> I agree with you that yes, Global Warming has some scientific terms used, but it is the biggest hoax going (think Jim Jones=Al Gore).......and again, it is approached like a 'religion'.


I could go on at length but rather than hijack the thread I will simply say I disagree and find little substance in the opposition's argument.



> And the Green Peace movement is a HUGE 'religious' experience.


Eh I'ld say it's a chemically induced experience.


By this argument anything that rouses and instills fervor in the people is considered a religion, which is bunk because if that had any reality to it our government could effectively hold a hand in absolutely nothing.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> Actually, history demonstrates that more than a few light-skinned black people have passed as white. Probably many of us would be surprised to find what's in our background if we went back more than 5-6 generations! And certainly some males have passed themselves off as female, and vice-versa. Things are not always as they seem!


Willow Girl and Flag Waver the point I was making is that gender and genetic make-up can be dicerned from visual 'reconissence'. 

Sexual orientation, sex changes and boob jobs are not as obvious.

Yes I do know that people have tried to pass themselves off as either something they are not, sexually or genetically. Black baseball players pre Jackie Robinson era, often claimed to be 'Cuban' because 'Cubans' were not black even if they were darker complected.

Please note I use 'genetic' rather than race.


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> *Nope, sorry, that was not my question. So i'll ask ONE MORE TIME:
> 
> What would you do if LGBT folks decided they were going to sue to force churches to marry them? Which side would you be on? What would you do if it passed?*


We still have "Freedom of Religion" under the Constituion. 
The Laws of this Land do Not Interfere, with Churches or Religions in Doctrinal matters. 
You can simply look at some of the issues that have been brought before the Supreme Court of the United States.
Not to cloud the issue further but.......Many Churches object to Abortion.
These Churches have tried unsuccessfuly to stop it........
The SCoTUS has ruled against them.
But NO one is Forced to have an Abortion, if they don't want one. It is ruled to be an Individual Right.

If the Churches did not Fight so hard against Gay Marriage, it would already be the Law of the Land, legally accepted. AISI.
In time I think it will.:hrm: 
But........I Do Not think Churches would ever be Forced to go against their Doctrine on the matter.


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## Jenni979 (Jan 27, 2010)

Old John,

We have answered this question for him at least half a dozen times now... It seems that because he does not like the answer he is getting, he just keeps repeating the question... Oh well...


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

JeffreyD 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenni979 
For those who think that homosexuality is a choice, does that mean that you beleive that hetrosexuality is a choice, as well? By your logic, it would have to be.

JeffreyD wrote: *"No, i don't believe it is a choice*. We were designed for procreating. That's why there are BOTH men and woman. Two guys, two girls = no babies.

If you don't have to wake up, each and every single morning, and tell yourself "well, self, today I think I am going to rock it hetro-style..." why would you think that homosexuals do?

I, personaly, don't know what they think.

We are pregnant with our 1st child, due in a few short weeks... All I could every pray for our daughter is that she is healthy, happy, independent and that she finds someone (one day) that she loves with all her heart and who, in turn, loves her back just has deeply.

Flame away, but her father and I don't care whether that special person is black, white, red, green, Christian, Muslim, short, tall, MALE or FEMALE.

One would think, that with all the OTHER things going on in the world today, that we could find something better to be worried about than the sex lives of people we don't even know.
JeffreyD wrote: *"When their sex lives may interfere with the rights of others, we need to worry."*JeffreyD wrote: âI read the info. It said NO proof that homosexualality is genetic! Read what "the gay gene" doctor wrote. If there's no genetic link, *it must be a choice then, no? â*




Well, JeffreyD, in one place you say that "it must be a choice then, no?" another place you tell Jenny "no, I don't believe it is a choice." 

I'm not asking you a question, :baby04: just pointing out. ALSO, no gay person I know interferes with your sex life or your rights. PERIOD.


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## johncronejr (Nov 4, 2007)

It's really a simple issue...It's no different than when blacks weren't allowed to marry whites because "some" folks just didn't think it was natural. For those who believe homosexuality is strictly a choice and not of nature, go do a little research and you will find that approximately 430 species of animals that exhibit homosexual behavior, in fact the bonobo chimpanzee is almost 100% bisexual. But enough of that....Gays don't any more make a choice to be gay than I made a choice to be heterosexual. I just felt that way, I never sat down at puberty and said "well which team am I gonna play for?" Besides, as someone mentioned earlier, why would anyone choose a lifestyle that has so much opposition and hatred directed towards it?

In the end, some don't want gays to get married because it may hurt the institution of marriage, as if the whole 50% (approx) divorce rate and teh many affairs that are happening isn't already hurting the sanctity of marriage enough. Allowing gays to be afforded EVERY right of marriage that is afforded to heterosexuals will hurt noone. It won't hurt the churches, it won't hurt the government, and it won't hurt one single hetero. 

I have asked those opposed to "true" marriage for gays to give one LOGICAL reason why it shouldn't be allowed. I have yet to receive one. I get a lot of "well the bible.....", "well it's just gross...", etc.....but never a logical reason.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> Wolf,
> 
> I have answered this SAME question for him no fewer than 3 different times... I think he just doesn't like the answers he is getting and he hopes that if he repeats the question enough we will all just give up and agree with him...
> 
> ...


*Yes, i did post that, because everyday we lose more of those rights. Why wouldn't/ couldn't that be another one we lose?*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Jenni979 said:


> Old John,
> 
> We have answered this question for him at least half a dozen times now... It seems that because he does not like the answer he is getting, he just keeps repeating the question... Oh well...


*Oh please, i kept asking because i wasn't getting a direct answer AT ALL. Please go back, take a little time, relax, and re-read this entire thread. I even had a poster answer a question attributed to me that i didn't even ask! Some folks even resorted to putting words in my mouth. Very telling!!!! And, you, answered mulitple times when no one even asked you!*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

LaManchaPaul said:


> JeffreyD
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Jenni979
> For those who think that homosexuality is a choice, does that mean that you beleive that hetrosexuality is a choice, as well? By your logic, it would have to be.
> ...


*It's a choice to be homosexual, not a choice to be hetrosexual. *

*I sure hope you don't know any gay folks that interfere with my sex life or rights! Doesn't mean that they won't in the future, does it? Answer truthfuly now!!*


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

johncronejr said:


> It's really a simple issue...It's no different than when blacks weren't allowed to marry whites because "some" folks just didn't think it was natural. For those who believe homosexuality is strictly a choice and not of nature, go do a little research and you will find that approximately 430 species of animals that exhibit homosexual behavior, in fact the bonobo chimpanzee is almost 100% bisexual. But enough of that....Gays don't any more make a choice to be gay than I made a choice to be heterosexual. I just felt that way, I never sat down at puberty and said "well which team am I gonna play for?" Besides, as someone mentioned earlier, why would anyone choose a lifestyle that has so much opposition and hatred directed towards it?
> 
> In the end, some don't want gays to get married because it may hurt the institution of marriage, as if the whole 50% (approx) divorce rate and teh many affairs that are happening isn't already hurting the sanctity of marriage enough. Allowing gays to be afforded EVERY right of marriage that is afforded to heterosexuals will hurt noone. It won't hurt the churches, it won't hurt the government, and it won't hurt one single hetero.
> 
> I have asked those opposed to "true" marriage for gays to give one LOGICAL reason why it shouldn't be allowed. I have yet to receive one. I get a lot of "well the bible.....", "well it's just gross...", etc.....but never a logical reason.


There's one in post #324, for you!


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## LaManchaPaul (May 21, 2008)

JeffreyD said:


> *It's a choice to be homosexual, not a choice to be hetrosexual. *
> 
> *I sure hope you don't know any gay folks that interfere with my sex life or rights! Doesn't mean that they won't in the future, does it? Answer truthfuly now!!*


Very logical to choose gayness but not hetro. yea, that's it! OK, OK. yea.
(thinking HOLY COW)

Are you considering coming out of the closet? Answer truthfully now...!! oh. If yes, I doubt that I know any gay that I could offer up to interfere with YOUR sex life.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

> I sure hope you don't know any gay folks that interfere with my sex life or rights! Doesn't mean that they won't in the future, does it? Answer truthfuly now!!


The gays are out to get you. They will force you to have hot gay sex. There is no hope. Resistance is futile, might aswell kill yourself now.


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## johncronejr (Nov 4, 2007)

JeffreyD said:


> There's one in post #324, for you!


*Nope, sorry, that was not my question. So i'll ask ONE MORE TIME:

"What would you do if LGBT folks decided they were going to sue to force churches to marry them? Which side would you be on? What would you do if it passed*?"

Ok Jeffrey, I said a "LOGICAL" reason. You are saying that just the fear that some gays may want to try to force churches to go against their church doctrines and perform gay marriages is reason enough to oppose gay marriage? If that is your fear, I suppose it is only logical to believe that you would not oppose gay marriage if no churches were going to be forced to perform the marriages.

Sit back for a second and really think about your so called logical reason. Why in the world would these gay couples want to be married in a church which is vehemently opposed to gay marriage? That makes no sense whatsoever. You know if you just don't like the gay lifestyle, just say that. Don't try to buttress your stance with illogical "what if's".

So you heard "some" gays say that is their agenda. I assure you that is not the voice of the majority of gays. They just want the MANY legal rights afforded to heterosexual married couples. Giving them these rights will take nothing away from heterosexuals. 

If the government chooses to continue to oppose gay marriage based on what can only be religious grounds, then that should be looked at as the government violating the First Amendment as it pertains to the separation of church and state.

Now, try to come up with a truly logical reason that gay marriage should not be allowed. Any reason that would take away other's rights or freedoms. Any reason that would bring harm to others. Any reason that does not pertain to religion/bible, but rather that deals directly in the tangible.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I agree with you that yes, GLTH whatever they want to be called, is a lifestyle CHOICE.


I guess heterosexuality also is a lifestyle choice, then, isn't it? 

Actually, I think it's more accurate to say that _behavior_ is a choice, while _orientation_ isn't. 

For instance, I'm bi, but I'm presently married to a man, and we are faithful to one another, so one might say I've chosen to be heterosexual. But that's not really accurate -- I'm still bi; I still have the same appreciation for and attraction to women; I simply choose not to act on those impulses, much like a heterosexual married woman might refrain from consorting with men other than her husband.


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

willow_girl said:


> I guess heterosexuality also is a lifestyle choice, then, isn't it?
> 
> Actually, I think it's more accurate to say that _behavior_ is a choice, while _orientation_ isn't.
> 
> For instance, I'm bi, but I'm presently married to a man, and we are faithful to one another, so one might say I've chosen to be heterosexual. But that's not really accurate -- I'm still bi; I still have the same appreciation for and attraction to women; I simply choose not to act on those impulses, much like a heterosexual married woman might refrain from consorting with men other than her husband.


Interesting.........But, you are right, cheating would be cheating.
I was thinking about asking whether folks thought that being Bi-sexual was a choice, or not. And you answered the question well, at least to my satisfaction. But, I pick things up quickly as a rule. Thanks for mentioning the difference in Behavior and Orientation.

I also was wondering if folks thought that perhaps parents, by their actions or attitudes guided their children into being, or maybe choosing to be Gay, Lesbian or Bi-sexual? 
Or perhaps the child learns it through contacts with their peers?
That is, if the child is not born, with the prediliction for that orientation or behavior? If they are not born with it, where do they pick up the mannerisms and attitudes that are part of their orietation? Do they have to study them?

I'm open-minded on the subject, myself. I am not real judgemental about things.
Over the years, I have had lady friends that I hung out with that were lesbians. Going out for dinner, a drink or two or even a show, with no expectations, other than companionship.
And, I've felt comfortable in the situations, as did the ladies. I also had several very nice very feminine girlfriends.
Now, keep in mind, I am quite comfortable, in my own skin. And, I love women.

I grew up oldest of nine. I married at 20, and fathered 5 great kids. At 40 my D/Ex left to find herself leaving me to raise the 5 kids by myself, because she knew I could handle it much better than she could or wanted. I'm presently married to the sweetest little lady in the world.

The other part of the GLBT situations that has not been brought up or discussed is the matter of the "Trans-gendered". It must be a really difficult transition to make, in order to make the jump, so to speak. Some do it smoothly and some do not. There are many behaviors that are normal and accepted when done by each gender, that would automatically attract unwanted attention, when done by the other gender.
I have heard that many times the person seeking the operations are required to live as the "Preferred gender" for as much as Two years before they will be accepted for the proceedures.

I am open-minded........but I just can't imagine the psychological traumas and pain, that many of these folks must undoubtedly undergo in their lives. Who in the world would choose it??


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> I also was wondering if folks thought that perhaps parents, by their actions or attitudes guided their children into being, or maybe choosing to be Gay, Lesbian or Bi-sexual?
> Or perhaps the child learns it through contacts with their peers?
> That is, if the child is not born, with the prediliction for that orientation or behavior? If they are not born with it, where do they pick up the mannerisms and attitudes that are part of their orietation? Do they have to study them?


That's a good question. I recently read a hypothesis that at least some homosexuality may be a result of sibling chimerism or "vanishing twin sydrome." Put simply, a pair of twins is conceived, but early in the pregnancy, one of the pair is reabsorbed, with some of its genetic material incorporated into the brain of the remaining opposite-sex fetus. I think the author makes an intriguing case:

http://www.welmer.org/2008/07/14/the-chimera-hypothesis-homosexuality-and-plural-pregnancy/

Having worked with cattle, I am of course familiar with freemartins, the female twin of a mixed-gender pair. Over 90 percent of freemartins are sterile due to lack of development of their sex organs. Generally it has been supposed that exposure to hormones is to blame, but what if it's really a case of chimerism, absorbing stem cells from their male twin? :shrug:


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## johncronejr (Nov 4, 2007)

deleted: didn't see that question was already answered


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## gryndlgoat (May 27, 2005)

The evidence for a genetic basis is becoming clearer in animal studies (this article is about the genetic basis of male-male courtship in fruitflies). The environment further influences the predestined genetic behavior.

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a905994179~db=all~jumptype=rss

Note that the "white" gene is also found in humans. 

It really looks like _Homophobia_ is the choice.


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## bluesky (Mar 22, 2008)

Old John said:


> I am open-minded........but I just can't imagine the psychological traumas and pain, that many of these folks must undoubtedly undergo in their lives. Who in the world would choose it??


Very true! My daughter has several gay and lesbian friends from school and work and shared an apartment with a lesian couple and a gay man (that our family has known since he was in 3rd grade - I think we knew he was gay before he recognized it himself). These young people all have stories about growing up gay that would bring you to tears. One young man lived with us during high school for a while because his dad threw him out of the house for being a "f-----". It was heartbreaking. Middle and high school are tough for _any_ kid that's different and these young people endured _way _more than their share of abuse. I think my passion for this subject is directly related to these young people sharing their lives with my family.


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