# Some Things Aren't Adding Up About These Shootings



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I can tell you, I'm intending on staying clear of any schools, nursing homes, or immigrant indoctrination centers over the next few weeks.

However some things just aren't adding up here.

The guy who shot those folks at the immigrant center was wearing body armor, yet he allegedly shot himself and committed suicide after 2 minutes. Why the body armor? He blocked the back door with a car and purchased body armor, all factors that indicate he was right enough in the head to plan things out, but then the official story has him killing himself after two minutes? When he obviously came prepared to have a shootout? 

Second, the guy who just shot those cops in Pittsburgh was also wearing body armor. This is something new in these types of events, the shooters wearing body armor. Can anyone think of a recent case where the shooter was wearing body armor? Now we're suddenly seeing it in multiple locations within days. In addition, this kid with an AK-47 killed three police officers and wounded others in a very professional way. Two headshots on moving targets and then a killing shot on a third officer who was moving under fire. Other injuries the police received on the scene were one cop who was shot in the hand and another who broke his leg climbing over a fence. 

Something isn't adding up, but I can't quite put my finger on it yet. My survival alarms are going off.


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## PAcountry (Jun 29, 2007)

I have a feeling too cant quite place it but I am feeling very uneasy


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## TexasArtist (May 4, 2003)

the kid placing the head shots on moving targets coulda been real good at video games. When I was younger and played those games I got quite good at shooting moving targets on the screens. Now days the games are so real......it ain't much of a step to the side.
As for the body armour I do agree it's odd.


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

I would think they wear body armor in order to stay alive long enough to accomplish their goals, i.e. killing as many as possible, before they finally kill themselves. 

What concerns me is the numbers of these incidents so close together. Is it a sign of the times? Are people, who are probably already "on the edge", just snapping due to their economic woes and an uncertain future?

Things like this just underscore my decision to move from heavily populated CA to rural ID. I hope I never have to go back.


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## spiffydave (Mar 19, 2008)

Yeah, I have to agree that these shooting seem pretty strange. They will certainly be used to restrict gun ownership, that's for sure - especially if they continue at this kind of pace.



> Things like this just underscore my decision to move from heavily populated CA to rural ID. I hope I never have to go back.


Amen to that! Traveled to SoCal last week - loved the weather but hated the freeway traffic, noise, all the people, etc. I won't ever move back.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

My conspiratorial side says it's the Brady Bunch 'Suicide Bombers'... trying to drum up support for a major gun ban proposal. After the Socialists attempt to tie the US with Mexico's drug wars semi failed, they're getting desperate. They need to convince a handful of senators to changeth their minds.

Armor is getting easier and easier to get... a few clicks of the mouse and UPS will drop off all you want. Heck, I picked up a vest at our local refuse center. Haven't practiced on it yet...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

So do we KNOW if they wore body armor?
Really , all we know is the MEDIA says they did.

They also say BO has shown a birth certificate, and yet we know THAT is a LIE


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I saw somewhere today that the 'kid with the AK-47' was a dishonorably discharged Marine (discharged due to mental issues), so he had some training. Might have been good with video games, too, of course. Please don't ask me for a link, though -- it was posted at one of the other forums I was at today, and I don't even remember which one right now -- it's been a long day (but we got the garden rototilled! And tomorrow after church I'm going to plant some cold-hardy stuff!).

Kathleen


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## WolfWalksSoftly (Aug 13, 2004)

texican said:


> My conspiratorial side says it's the Brady Bunch 'Suicide Bombers'... trying to drum up support for a major gun ban proposal. After the Socialists attempt to tie the US with Mexico's drug wars semi failed, they're getting desperate. They need to convince a handful of senators to changeth their minds.


That's my take on it too....I believe there will be more Booga-Booga headlines and news (propaganda) in the future.


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

this morning 5 children killed then father killed himself.... it's been gettiing crazier and crazier,


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## canterin' (Feb 2, 2009)

Recently speaking, first we had Oakland, and now Pittsburg. It seems that being a cop is making you just as vulnerable as the average citizen, despite training and being armed. Maybe it's just coincidence that we have had multiple police massacres so close together, but the thought of a trend developing is quite unnerving. You would think that most people doing this have an ultimate goal of "suicide by cop", but that apparently wasn't the case in Pittsburg where the young man surrendered after causing all that carnage.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

Guess a ban on body armor will be next.


.


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

JIL said:


> this morning 5 children killed then father killed himself.... it's been gettiing crazier and crazier,



1/ That it gets crazier each time we go thru this cycle is for sure.

2/ The BRADY SUICIDERS might be a thang but depressed people dont use
logic, rather they copy.

3/ Depression tightens down on these guys like a vise or python and they
dont have a clue at times what is wrong. Its not like they "feel"
something wrong and seek help, rather they brood, nurse their anger
and finally execute, after planning while winding their anger tighter and
tighter while planning, each thing spurring the other.

4/ "Chaptered" out or not of the miltary, its pretty easy to imagine what
you'd do to your "enemies" if you had the chance, and let the bad 
side of your nature use the "tools" available, which of course now,
includes body armour now as a matter of course.

5/ The "stress of the season" [ ulcer cycle, spring and fall], the constant
drumbeat of BAD NEWS, and the actual incidents [ economic i.e. job
loss, inability to provide, etc, etc, etc ] are real triggers in everyone's
lives. Some of kick the cat, others do some more intense things.

*SO*

A/ Expect more Population Control [ gun control, food rationing, medical
care rationing ] from governments that cant manage themselves at 
all, even with the outrageous intrusion in private affairs already.

B/ More snoop and intimidation to try and keep people dependent and thus
"politically" reliable to support their government ! ! ! 

C/ Economic circumstance continuing change from old patterns, bad for 
those who wont change with them, benefiting those who will and do.

D/ Use the camoflauge factor of "hiding in plain sight", whilst you conduct
your affairs "under the radar", acquiring things on sale, at places like 
farmer's markets, informal or flea markets, and putting by things that 
function as a store of value and medium of exchange.

E/ Expand your pantry, fuel supply, signal security capability at your own
pace, always bit at at time, and then rotate your stuff to keep it fresh.

Yes I think there will be more shooters, no I dont think all of them are sponsored, and I think each of them is deranged as they must be, and *NO, * I dont believe the LONE GUNMAN THEORY of the WARREN COMMISSION, but its commoners we are talking about here not*JFK !*

Keep calm, avoid crowed places with no escape routes, and keep calm.
Keep your head in CONDITION YELLOW, and your awareness, sensitivity and radar on active when away from your abode.

Stay Vigilant, Keep your powder dry,

DG


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

I believe that this rash of shootings is perpetrated by the controllers using "Manchurian Candidates" that fit several agendas.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

most of the shooting have been in "no carry" locations. Schools, govt locations etc.

I wonder if they would have gotten as far if they had been in the general public?


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## freeholdfarms (Aug 10, 2007)

This list is before Pittsburg and the father killing his children

MSNBC.com list U.S. mass shootings in recent years
March 29, 2009:
Robert Stewart, 45, shot and killed eight people at Pinelake Health and Rehab in Carthage, N.C. before a police officer shot him and ended the rampage.
March 29, 2009:
Devan Kalathat, 42, shot and killed his two children and three other relatives, then killed himself in an upscale neighborhood of Santa Clara, Calif. Kalathat's wife was critically injured.
March 21, 2009:
Lovelle Mixon, 26, shot and killed four Oakland, Calif., police officers after a traffic stop. Mixon was killed in a shootout with SWAT officers.
March 10, 2009:
Michael McLendon, 28, killed 10 people Ã¢&#8364;&#8221; including his mother, four other relatives, and the wife and child of a local sheriff's deputy Ã¢&#8364;&#8221; across two rural Alabama counties. He then killed himself.
Feb. 14, 2008:
Former student Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, fatally shooting five students and wounding 18 others before committing suicide.
Dec. 5, 2007:
Robert A. Hawkins, 19, opened fire with a rifle at a Von Maur store in an Omaha, Neb., mall, killing eight people before taking his own life. Five more people were wounded, two critically.
April 16, 2007:
Seung-Hui Cho, 23, fatally shot 32 people in a dorm and a classroom at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, then killed himself in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.
Oct. 2, 2006:
Charles Carl Roberts IV, 32, shot to death five girls at West Nickel Mines Amish School in Pennsylvania, then killed himself.
March 21, 2005:
Student Jeffrey Weise, 16, killed nine people, including his grandfather and his grandfather's companion at home. Also included were five fellow students, a teacher and a security guard at Red Lake High School in Red Lake, Minn. He then killed himself. Seven students were wounded.
March 12, 2005:
Terry Ratzmann, 44, gunned down members of his congregation as they worshipped at the Brookfield Sheraton in Brookfield, Wisconsin, slaying seven and wounding four before killing himself.
March 5, 2001:
Charles "Andy" Williams, 15, killed two fellow students and wounded 13 others at Santana High School in Santee, Calif.
Nov. 2, 1999:
Copier repairman Byran Uyesugi, 40, fatally shoots seven people at Xerox Corp. in Honolulu. He is convicted and sentenced to life in prison.
July 29, 1999:
Former day trader Mark Barton, 44, killed nine people in shootings at two Atlanta brokerage offices, then killed himself.
April 20, 1999:
Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, opened fire at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killing 12 classmates and a teacher and wounding 26 others before killing themselves in the school's library.
May 21, 1998
Two teenagers were killed and more than 20 people hurt when Kip Kinkel, 17, opened fire at a high school in Springfield, Ore., after killing his parents.
March 24, 1998:
Andrew Golden, 11, and Mitchell Johnson, 13, killed four girls and a teacher at a Jonesboro, Ark., middle school. Ten others were wounded in the shooting.
Oct. 16, 1991:
A deadly shooting rampage took place in Killeen, Texas, as George Hennard opened fire at a Luby's Cafeteria, killing 23 people before taking his own life. 20 others were wounded in the attack.
June 18, 1990:
James Edward Pough shoots people at random in a General Motors Acceptance Corp. office in Jacksonville, Fla., killing 10 and wounding four, before killing himself.
July 12, 1976:
Edward Charles Allaway, a custodian in the library of California State University, Fullerton, fatally shot seven fellow employees and wounded two others.
Aug. 20, 1986
Pat Sherrill, 44, a postal worker who was about to be fired, shoots 14 people at a post office in Edmond, Okla. He then kills himself.
July 18, 1984:
James Oliver Huberty, an out-of-work security guard, kills 21 people in a McDonald's restaurant in San Ysidro, Calif. A police sharpshooter kills Huberty.
May 4, 1970:
Four Kent State University students were killed by Ohio National Guard troops during a campus protest of the invasion of Cambodia. Nine people were wounded.
Aug. 1, 1966:
Charles Whitman opened fire from the clock tower at the University of Texas at Austin, killing 16 people and wounding 31.


Seems strange that there were 7 total during Bush's 8 years, we're up to that in less than 70 days of Obama. 

Taking Tin Foil hat off, putting on a colander for better protection


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Another strange thing is the cop shooter was "only wounded in the legs due to his body armor"

Shouldnt a SWAT ( Special WEAPONS and Tactics) team have weapons that will defeat body armor ( most *ANY* rifle), and shouldnt they have shooters competent enough to make a HEAD SHOT? 

If all they could see to aim at was HIS legs, then HE couldnt have been aiming at THEM either


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

missed the colombian shootings and the copy cat of that and all of the recent church shootings, I bet there are a lot more, that we've already forgotten about....


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## SnakeRiver (Feb 7, 2009)

1. There is a big difference between playing a video game and engaging multiple targets who are shooting at you. 

2. Either way these roll out, situations like these will be used to curtail the rights of law abiding gun owners. 

3. Of course the predators pick weapons free areas. They don't want to be challenged immediately. That is why these don't happen at gun stores, gun shows or shooting ranges.


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

desensitized nation ie: TV and video games.... drug poluted water.... tainted food supply.... bad economy..... are we really tin foil haters or are we aware?


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## adenblue (Apr 12, 2008)

Re: the Pittsburgh shooting



> Another man who said he was a friend of Mr Poplawski, Aaron Vire, told the newspaper: "He said he'll be ready if there's ever an invasion of the United States and that he had stockpiled foods and guns for that eventuality."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7983894.stm


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

I don't we have lived with chemicals long enough to know how those things effect certain individuals. Who knows, maybe fluoride combined with yellow number 5 makes people snap :TFH: While I am not so sure this is some sort of massive conspiracy I do think it is odd that there have been so many shootings as of late. Conspiracy or no I think the effect will be the same, dreaded restrictions, bans, maybe ammo tax  Better keep a stocking up before there isn't an option


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

*we are in the end times, as scriptures have it*:
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 
Mat 24:8 All these [are] the beginning of sorrows. 
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. 
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before. 
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not. 
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 
Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh: 
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. 
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 
we are to not only be prepared phyiscally but more so spiritualy, this next scripture shows how man will be used because he will be given over to a reprobate mind:
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

texican said:


> My conspiratorial side says it's the Brady Bunch 'Suicide Bombers'... trying to drum up support for a major gun ban proposal. After the Socialists attempt to tie the US with Mexico's drug wars semi failed, they're getting desperate. They need to convince a handful of senators to changeth their minds.
> 
> Armor is getting easier and easier to get... a few clicks of the mouse and UPS will drop off all you want. Heck, I picked up a vest at our local refuse center. Haven't practiced on it yet...


i'm not anti-gun. period.

however, the abc morning news said that what prompted the shootout that killed 3 cops was the shooters fear that BO is going to take away everyone's guns. i've seen this sentiment expressed too many times to count on various HT forums.

i'm here to say- if you cold- dead- fingers folks hope to keep your guns this is exactly the kind of incident you want to avoid.

his claims against the president ending with 3 dead police officers has set your goals back immeasurably. the pro-gun faction has just lost a huge battle in the war.

as usual, imo.


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

God has in place who he wants in office and is we have a choice to used of God or the devil. His word is true and everything in it will come to pass.


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## uyk7 (Dec 1, 2002)

> Taking Tin Foil hat off, putting on a colander for better protection


I think you should put the colander on over the tin foil for maximum protection.





> God has in place who he wants in office and is we have a choice to used of God or the devil.


Your statement isn't very clear. IMO God has put Barry Soetoro in office as a punishment. I refuse to follow an evil leader or do his/her bidding.


.


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

I wish I had not had to sell off all my firearms over the past couple years.... dont know if i can ever get any back the way things are going..... 

On the subject of body armour, or "ghost shirts" as the Lakota called them, they only work well if the penetrating projectile hits the armor trauma plating, any other place and you can expect broken ribs, bruised internal organs, and even death from a hard knock on the ole ticker...... that from most pistols, from a rifle, well most rifles will go through the ghost shirt anyway.....

Odd yes that these things happen particualrly when the bills are needing support, but I think it is more of a right hand left hand magicians ploy the media uses to draw attention away from the real problems of the day. And besides if you get right down to it, people have been killing each other since the begining of time, legislation taking away tools will not stop that, and your senator and representives need to be re-minded that they cannot legislate morality as they have tried in the past and have failed..... just like they are failing to stop the economic down turn with so called bailouts of failing businesses.
All previous great empires fell..... so to one day will the several states fall down and have the world laughing harder than they already do at the uS.

William
North Central Idaho


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

JIL said:


> God has in place who he wants in office and is we have a choice to used of God or the devil. His word is true and everything in it will come to pass.


Which God? Ours, or the bad one (pretender)?


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

the Bible tells us that there will be things that happen. God is not a liar, so if some choose to be used as Judas was, he was a disciple of Christ 's but yet he was used by the devil to betray Jesus, it was in the scripture it had to come to pass or else we would have no hope, for Jesus to return there are things that have to come to pass there are things that are going to happen it's in the scripture, we can be used for the good or the evil seems that there are some who are used for the evil. We need to be prepared spiritually and phsyically all these shooting are people fallen, the gov will use whatever means to control they are there own kings and God ap[points Kings. wish I could make sence but for now this is what I have to offer. gun control is a step then lots of other stuff will follow, like having a Bible will soon be labled as a hate crime tool, people who choose to follow Jesus as their savior will be persacuted for his namesake. people are not really prepared for what is to come.JIL


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## Jerngen (May 22, 2006)

freeholdfarms said:


> Seems strange that there were 7 total during Bush's 8 years, we're up to that in less than 70 days of Obama.


That is no where near a complete list, there have been many, many more multiple murders (by shootings) then that. Including one last summer here in da U.P. where a guy facing rape charges opened fire on a bunch of teenagers at the local swimming hole, killed three of them and wounded more. 

It missed several college shootings. 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18137414/

It missed some highschool shootings. It missed many workplace shootings/killings 
http://www.emergency-management.net/workplace_shoot.htm


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

JIL said:


> missed the colombian shootings and the copy cat of that and all of the recent church shootings, I bet there are a lot more, that we've already forgotten about....


Also left out Lori Dann shootings from 1988 (Happened down the street from me).

Mike


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## Cotton Picker (Oct 10, 2008)

uyk7 said:


> Guess a ban on body armor will be next.


Bingo!!!!.... Uyk7.... Wins the prize!!!!!!....:goodjob:

If they can disrupt the availiability of body armor to the general public...... Those who practice excellent gun control..... i. e.... The ability to hit what they are aiming at.... Might not survive as long...... In an all out power grab by the government......


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## smurfhuts (Sep 5, 2008)

It just seems too much of a coincidence, that in one article I read about the Pittsburgh shooter, three different friends told reporters that he was afraid Obama was gonna take his right to have guns away. How convenient.


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## rickd203 (Sep 11, 2005)

I was watching a show on history channel last night that was comparing the causes of the great depression to todays events. It noted that when the stock market crashed in 1929, it spurred a big increase in suicides with people jumping out of buildings. I think we are seeing a present day version of that. These people end up killing themselves but first they feel the need to express their anger by killing as many people as they can or focusing their anger on the people they think caused their problems.


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## jukebox (Jun 20, 2004)

http://secondamendmentfreedom.blogspot.com/

Article is worth thinking about.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

In most cases simply outlaw "gun free zones" since these cowards pick the gun free zone as a safe harbor.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I aagree with the poster that was referring to God placing whom he will in places of authority. Sometimes God will place an evil ruler because the people have hardened their hearts. That sure seems to fit. As for the one that was comparing the numbers under Bush's rule compared to Obama's, that is really inconsequental in my opinion. This society has been going downhill for a long time. When we stepped away from God we stepped out from under His protection. As a nation we have gone the same route of so many in the Bible days, and just like those nations if we don't turn back to God we'll soon find ourselves without any freedom, possibly without a nation.

I also think someone is pulling strings here at the cost of the unbalanced. Get enough people shooting up the place and soon we'll have ever means to protect ourselves taken away from us.


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

thanks for the input Sonshine, to help me say what i was trying to say JIL


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

As for the guy who shot the cops... all I've been able to read about the reason for the call, was a domestic disturbance... Did the folks in the house call, or the neighbors? Mom opens the door, with son behind her with a rifle...

Why did the Law show up.

1 person out of 80 million (that feel the exact same way, that BHO wants us all to be unarmed slaves) gets jiggy when the Law shows up at his door. When all 80 million get their 'constitution' up, that's when things will get interesting.

As far as the cold dead fingers folks... hopefully the Black Booted Brady Bunch LE officials are taking notice. There are 80 to 100 million firearms owners in the country... if 3 Black Boots bite the dust (confiscating weapons) for each firearm owner, that dog won't hunt long. I doubt more than 30% of Americans would hand in their arms, entrusting their safety to a non existent deterrent force (911).

And, Marvella, if I insinuated anything disrespectful toward you, or any other person with different views on firearms and self protection, my humblest apologies. We're all on a self sufficiency forum, and we all know we have to responsible for our own safety and security.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

His mother called the cops, then opened the door to tell them to come take him away.

Cops expected some kid with a dog peeing on the carpet. They were not even thinking of a guy with a rifle hiding behind his mother. She didn't even know he had gone and gotten the gun!

Had the cops known he was armed, the outcome would have been different.


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

texican said:


> As for the guy who shot the cops... all I've been able to read about the reason for the call, was a domestic disturbance... Did the folks in the house call, or the neighbors? Mom opens the door, with son behind her with a rifle...
> 
> Why did the Law show up.
> 
> ...


i wasn't offended by anything you or anyone else said. i don't think guns are the problem with violence in this country. there is definitely a problem but it has nothing to do with guns. it's like outlawing computers because sometimes people do bad things with them.

and all i know is what i heard on abc news the other morning about the cause. came right out of diane sawyers mouth.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Domestics are the worst call any cop can make. If you heard the tape there was a lot of gun fire. 

No, the body armour isn't all that great. I think people have a huge misconception about it. What is offered isn't the top of the line (in NY) that's why my son is buying his own. I am not going to go into the details as it upsets me but the info is out there as to what caliburs kill, range, etc.

As to the guy downstate, he was a druggy that did not speak much English. I have been watching headlines all day already touting gun control, one very sarcastic one about the store opening up right on time where he purchased his two handguns, blah, blah, blah. I don't believe he was a citizen, either. I believe the PA shooting the guy is. I think it might be coincidence that they both had on armour, IF they indeed did. I have not been following the national stories about them as they are both pretty close and the local news hadn't mentioned the body armour on the yahoo down state.

I will get more info on the guy downstate. It makes me kind of sick. Do I think the two incidents are connected, no. I work in a public school that just had a kid caught with a loaded gun in his car. I believe there are a lot of wackos out there and that makes me nervous. I look at some of the kids in the building I am in close quarters with for over six hours a day and it really makes me nervous.


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## BeagleMommy (May 21, 2008)

tab, 
what's wrong with a kid having a loaded gun in the car? They did that all the time when I was a kid and no one got shot or arrested over it.


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## shellycoley (Mar 6, 2003)

In this day and time there certianly is something WRONG with a kid having a gun in his car at a school.

Shelly


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## r93000 (Mar 9, 2009)

Ignoring the fact that is is illegal for a student to bring guns on school property I am going to say this- I would want to know the type of gun found and the student's stated reason for having it. Obviously it did not belong on school grounds, especially being loaded (that's where I have my biggest problem with it), however while I was in high school (grad in '98) many times someone would go out hunting early and depending on the loacation of the hunting land, home, and school it was a long trip to get everything home. You could not park in the school parking lot (legally) with the "gun" still in the car, however, you just parked up the road aways where it was legal.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Before the self-esteem movmement and the entitlement mentality (and the video games) we took guns to school all the time with no events. Hurting somebody was wrong. Pretty simple rule that was followed for decades. Because of the 60s and 70s and the feel-good carp, my son, who lives and works on a ranch, can not even take his pocket knife to school.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

You need to spend some time in halls of a high school. That will tell you why it isn't ok to bring a gun to school. There are more circumstances that really make the incident bothersome. For one, the kid was NOT hunting. 

Heck there was a time when schools around here had gun clubs.

That said, my ds took his rifle to school many times during hunting season. I think he kept it out of sight and he certainly did not tell me until later...

The local news is focusing now on the cops rather than the shooter in Binghamton. The world news had a blurb about the burials that have started.


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## r93000 (Mar 9, 2009)

tab said:


> You need to spend some time in halls of a high school. That will tell you why it isn't ok to bring a gun to school. There are more circumstances that really make the incident bothersome. For one, the kid was NOT hunting.


I have. I taught in an alternative high school for 4 years- 2002 to 2006. I continue to do mentoring, tutoring and "life skills" work with disadvantaged teens- including home visits, which can sometimes be dicey as to whether _I_ should be carrying.

That was why I wanted to know what type of gun and the student's stated reason for having it. I work with kids who live in cars, shacks, meth labs etc. Since it was in the car and not his locker or on his person, that would lead me to further questioning about the intents and purposes of having it. I am NOT saying that it is ok to have it on school grounds. Although, that being said, there is not a lot of help for high school students with terrible homes- they get pushed under the rug by social agencies and many live in we'll call it "un-ideal" situations just to exist.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

So we've got an ex-military guy, a pretty good marksman, who kills three police officers. He looks a little wacky, had made all sorts of incriminating tinfoil-esque statements in the preceeding days to the event, and here's the weird part ...

After he's just killed three of the police officers, they somehow manage to shoot him in the leg (though he's firing out through a window) and then he surrenders. At first blood, this well-armed, well-defended, entrenched shooter surrenders to the police where he can then make all the strange statements he wants.

It's pretty suspicious. Wait and see what happens to him. If we see that he doesn't go to prison for life, or if he somehow "disappears" into the system then perhaps some sort of false-flag gun operation has occurred here.


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## 7.62mmFMJ (Nov 19, 2008)

Ernie said:


> So we've got an ex-military guy, a pretty good marksman, who kills three police officers. He looks a little wacky, had made all sorts of incriminating tinfoil-esque statements in the preceeding days to the event, and here's the weird part ...
> 
> After he's just killed three of the police officers, they somehow manage to shoot him in the leg (though he's firing out through a window) and then he surrenders. At first blood, this well-armed, well-defended, entrenched shooter surrenders to the police where he can then make all the strange statements he wants.
> 
> It's pretty suspicious. Wait and see what happens to him. If we see that he doesn't go to prison for life, or if he somehow "disappears" into the system then perhaps some sort of false-flag gun operation has occurred here.


The events do seem mighty suspicious.


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## YoYoDog (Sep 3, 2007)

Things I know:

The second thing a tyrant takes in a power grab is guns. (Right after books/the media) and we're halfway there.

Texas does'nt have gun control and crime is down.

England does and crime is rampant.

Guns don't kill people anymore than forks make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
(Not my original quote, but I like it.)

What about swift justice and accountability, either at the scene or post haste with the justice system. (If this guy in Pitt. was caught in the act, why is he still walking the earth?)


Things I don't know:

All the answers.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

The guy in Binghamton sent a letter to a local news channel. I haven't had time to read it not sure if I want to. The local sources did not mention body armour, at least not in the reports I have heard/read.

I know the media can really screw up on details. I think with the PA shooting maybe a good reliable (if one exists) local source might be the way to go. Anyone here live close to that shooting? Link?


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Anyone, including the most violent and dangerous of criminals, can buy body armor on Ebay. 

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

7.62mmFMJ said:


> Before the self-esteem movmement and the entitlement mentality (and the video games) we took guns to school all the time with no events. Hurting somebody was wrong. Pretty simple rule that was followed for decades. Because of the 60s and 70s and the feel-good carp, my son, who lives and works on a ranch, can not even take his pocket knife to school.


Half the trucks at my school, back in the early seventies, had gun racks... with shotguns and .22lr's in them...

and indeed, hurting someone was wrong... and there were consequences, no matter how small... like a derrier blistering session... after a few of those, most of us realized being good and following some simple 'golden rules' was best. The ones who didn't believe this, have amazingly, gotten some free vacations since then, courtesy of the State... free meals, free housing, free medical... in the penitentiary...


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I can see a person with the mindset of "gotta kill as many as possible" going through a whole body armour set up and then killing himself when he's done what he meant to do. It's two different chapters in one book. First: prepare yourself and kill as many as possible. Second: kill self to avoid letting THEM take you to jail.

As to SWAT not being able to shoot through body armour....or shooting him in the legs....Perhaps they were told to shoot him and take him out without killing him. One of the things in the other shootings that the cops/prosecutors are yammering about is that they'll never know "why". When the bad guy dies in the firefight...you never get to hear WHY...and that's a biggie for figuring out how to stop it in the future....or at least recognize who is going to go bonkers....what's the trigger that set him off? :shrug:

I believe that part of what's going on is the media coverage of 1 shooting prompts someone out there who's on the edge into going ahead and killing. Seems to me we see a spat of shootings everytime there's a major killing spree somewhere. It's quiet for awhile, then something happens and makes the national news for a few days...and then we see 3 or 4 more in a short period of time. 

But I agree...it's getting bigger and more..hmm...condensed. And my collander has holes in it so I'm just going straight for the spun aluminum salad bowl. :TFH:


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## Marshloft (Mar 24, 2008)

Found an interesting article this morning..
It seems some states are being less stringent on gun permits...
As I was reading thru the article,,, It said the state of Kansas was (might) change the wording on our gun laws from "A collective right" to "A personal Right".
What does that mean??? can you esplain that to me?
*Gunmen in mass killings had permits*
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30094954//


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I heard on the news this morning that in the 4 police shooting, with the domestic violence - that the mom had told the 911 operator that the son was heavily armed, and dispatch did not pass that information on to the police officers dispatched to check it out. They just thought the mom needed a son out.

Angie


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## Wisconsin Ann (Feb 27, 2007)

I heard that same explanation, Angie. hmm...CNN it was...they were reporting on the 911 call when it was released. Said that while the caller told 911 the man shooting was heavily armed, the dispatch to the cops said nothing about guns. Just related a domestic disturbance. 

now...."domestic disturbance" is supposed to be the number 1 nasty call to get, so they SHOULD have been prepared for most anything, but....

Seem to be a lot of nutters out there. I'm going to continue hiding for a while.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

In a roundabout way, a person could blame this on the POTUS... since the guy was afraid the Prez was going to confiscate/ban guns, it's his fault... if McC had won, he wouldn't have had the same fears, and wouldn't have gotten his freak on... {I know its a stretch}


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

and it could be a dispatch person that probably will be looking for a new job, and having to remember what omitting information can do to a situation.


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## frontiergal (Oct 3, 2002)

Well you know the more people doing crazy things with guns will get guns banned or controled sooner...hummmmm


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## Ninn (Oct 28, 2006)

Have you read the letter from the Binghamton shooter? He sent one to channel 10 news in Syracuse. This man had serious mental problems. He believed that all the people in that building were undercover police officers! Odds are, he decided to kill himself after he got in there. My nephew goes to school with some of the children who lost their parents that day. 1 pair of kids were escorted home by their principals, who waited with them until family members could be found. They are 6 and 12. How do we explain this to them? 

And then there's the young man in the boiler room. 18 years old, from Jordan. Put his back up against that door and said it didn't matter if he died, as long as he'd protected the rest of them from the shooter. He's been here 8 months. He never expected to be in danger in America. What a man!


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