# Dial or weight



## au natural (Mar 8, 2004)

I have two pressure canners-both have dials. I bought the parts to change one of them over to a weighted canner but I haven't changed it yet. I'm wondering...what's your preference? And why? Is it harder to use a weighted canner? I'm a visual person so I like using the dial but I would like to not be dependant on having to get my lid tested yearly. I admit, I'm a little nervous about listening to the weight jiggle and not knowing if it is at the right "number". Any suggestions? Thanks.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

Weights win hands down. There are many discussions here about the advantages of using weights and I can link them for you if you like. Not only is it easier and more accurate but safer processing too. The gauges are meant to be a general guideline only and without annual testing of your gauge (not the lid) they are a VERY general guideline. Testing has shown they can be off by as much as 4 lbs.

"Jiggle" is a generic term. What the weight actually does and how often it does it when at pressure all depends on the brand of canner you have. What is your brand?


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## PixieLou (May 1, 2010)

Personally I love my gauge. I'm a visual person, so like to be able to look at the gauge, it helps me control the heat when bringing the canner up to pressure, helps me control the rate of depressurizing. Having to have to listen for a certain jiggle rate would drive me up a wall and would be such a major distraction for me. Listening for a jiggle just isn't precise enough for me. Plus it's just one of those sounds that I can't tolerate.

I find the argument that weights are easier to be a matter of personal preference. And the argument that gauges are only meant to be a general guideline seems a bit ludicrous since many canners are only sold with gauges. I know I'm in the minority in preferring my gauge, but that doesn't make my preference wrong.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

What Judylou said.

If you lined up 10 canners with gauges all in a row using the same simultaneous heat source, you would most likely have at the very most 4 that would have the same reading. The weights are precision ground and weighted. There can be no mistake. Did I mention that I have 28 years of machining and gauge making experience? Machining had to be within a tolerance of .0001". (that's one ten-thousandths of an inch)


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

PixieLou said:


> Personally I love my gauge. I'm a visual person, so like to be able to look at the gauge, it helps me control the heat when bringing the canner up to pressure, helps me control the rate of depressurizing. Having to have to listen for a certain jiggle rate would drive me up a wall and would be such a major distraction for me. Listening for a jiggle just isn't precise enough for me. Plus it's just one of those sounds that I can't tolerate.
> 
> I find the argument that weights are easier to be a matter of personal preference. And the argument that gauges are only meant to be a general guideline seems a bit ludicrous since many canners are only sold with gauges. I know I'm in the minority in preferring my gauge, but that doesn't make my preference wrong.


I love my guages too!:rock:


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> I find the argument that weights are easier to be a matter of personal preference. And the argument that gauges are only meant to be a general guideline seems a bit ludicrous since many canners are only sold with gauges.


With all respect, unless you are talking about some of the off-brand electrics and the pressure cookers which aren't approved for canning, there are no pressure canners sold with only a gauge and haven't been for more than 20 years when the petcock was discontinued. All come with at least a 15 lb. counter-weight and we have talked before about how to use it to test the accuracy of your gauge and how to modify it.

All All American canners have both a gauge and a 5-10-15 lb weight. Some Mirros and some Prestos have only the weights and no gauge and the rest of the Mirros and Prestos have both.

It is the nature of a gauge, any gauge, which renders it less accurate than a machined weight in any circumstance and all 3 manufacturers agree that the weights are more accurate measurements of pressure than their gauges are. That is why the guidelines stipulate using higher pressures when canning with so-called gauged canners.


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## Chixarecute (Nov 19, 2004)

Lisabug changed from gauge to weight, and loves that she doesn't have to "baby" the gauge any more. She can be doing other chores & listening for the jiggle.


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## au natural (Mar 8, 2004)

Judylou, I have an old National canner and an 21 qt All American canner that has a petcock. I believe that it (the All American) is around 25 years old. I like my National best because it heats up a lot faster than my big canner (20 minutes as opposed to 40+). However, I tend to use my All American most because I can process 20 pints at a time in it as opposed to 8. I would love it if it had BOTH the guage and the weight... I was thinking of changing the All American over to weights but I am really nervous about using the weights...


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## PixieLou (May 1, 2010)

judylou said:


> All come with at least a 15 lb. counter-weight and we have talked before about how to use it to test the accuracy of your gauge and how to modify it.


Everything I have read, both with my canner, and on NCHFP, specify that the 15 lb. counter weight is a counter-weight, and is NOT supposed to be used as an indication of pressure in the canner. You are supposed to use the dial.

From NCHFP:

_"This weight should not be confused with a weighted gauge and will not jiggle or rock as described for a weighted gauge canner. Pressure readings on a dial-gauge-only canner are only registered on the dial and only the dial should be used as an indication of the pressure in the canner. "_




judylou said:


> That is why the guidelines stipulate using higher pressures when canning with so-called gauged canners.


Can you please quote your source for this? Whose guidelines?


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> Judylou, I have an old National canner and an 21 qt All American canner that has a petcock. I believe that it (the All American) is around 25 years old. I like my National best because it heats up a lot faster than my big canner (20 minutes as opposed to 40+). However, I tend to use my All American most because I can process 20 pints at a time in it as opposed to 8. I would love it if it had BOTH the guage and the weight... I was thinking of changing the All American over to weights but I am really nervous about using the weights...
> Reply With Quote


I understand your concerns. It is a big change for you but the doing isn't nearly as difficult as the thinking about it is.  Once you see with your own eyes how the weight works and understand how it works you'll quickly come to trust it.

And keep in mind that your gauge isn't going anywhere. It will still be there to watch so obviously you can still check it too. Just keep in mind that IF there is a discrepancy between your gauge and the weight then the weight is correct, not the gauge. If you use the 10 lb. weight for example and it is spinning and spitting 5 times a minute then you are at 10.5 lbs. pressure right where you should be regardless of what you gauge may read.

That is one of the big advantages to having the weight, the ability to "test" your gauge.

All Americans are easy to convert from the petcock to the weight. You just need to order the weight and a new valve stem from AA, remove the petcock and its stem, screw in the new stem and set the weight on it. Same is true for converting the old National using new Presto parts.



> Everything I have read, both with my canner, and on NCHFP, specify that the 15 lb. counter weight is a counter-weight, and is NOT supposed to be used as an indication of pressure in the canner. You are supposed to use the dial.
> 
> From NCHFP:
> 
> "This weight should not be confused with a weighted gauge and will not jiggle or rock as described for a weighted gauge canner. Pressure readings on a dial-gauge-only canner are only registered on the dial and only the dial should be used as an indication of the pressure in the canner. "


That is totally true IF you are canning at any pressure other than 15 lbs. The counterweight is a 15.5 lb. weight and slowly and continuously rocks on the Presto when the pressure in the canner is at 15 lbs. regardless of what your gauge may indicate. If you are canning at any lower pressure then it just sits there and you are forced to rely solely on the gauge. Which is why converting to the 3 piece weight set is recommended so that you may can at a range of pressures rather than just at 15 lbs.

The policy you quoted also goes hand-in-hand with the policy on having your gauge tested annually. If you do that then of course you can use your gauge alone with confidence. If you don't have the gauge tested then you have no way of accurately knowing what pressure you are using. This information has been vetted and approved by Dr. Elizabeth Andress at NCHFP and is taught in MFP certification classes.



> Quote:
> Originally Posted by judylou View Post
> That is why the guidelines stipulate using higher pressures when canning with so-called gauged canners.
> Can you please quote your source for this? Whose guidelines?
> Reply With Quote


Sure. NCHFP/USDA is the source. You will find different PC processing pressures for gauge only (older ones with petcocks) and for weighted/gauge canners on most all the instructions for pressure canning.

For example, green beans http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_04/beans_snap_italian.html
in a dial gauge canner is 11 lbs. for 0-2000 feet while the pressure for the beans in a weighted gauge canner is 10 lbs. for 0-1000 feet and 15 lbs. above 1000 feet.

You'll find different pressure and altitude changes for the different types of canners for most all pressure canned recipes.

Ultimately of course the choice is yours as to which to use - gauge or weights. But when making your decision please be sure you first understand the problems associated with gauges and the effect those documented problems have on the safety of your canned foods.

As already mentioned above, your gauge will still be there. It isn't removed when the weight(s) are added. It will still be there for you to check. But it is the weight that will be accurate rather than the gauge if there is a discrepancy. So while many are perfectly happy to can with only weights and no gauge, the ideal for many who are gauge dependent would be to have both - a gauge AND the weights.


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## Phantomfyre (Jul 1, 2004)

If I had to pick just one or the other, weight, hands-down. But I have both on mine (retrofitted an old canner - replaced gauge and replaced petcock with weight) and do like having the dial gauge so I can keep an eye on things - when is it getting close to pressure? When is it fully de-pressurized? Etc.


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## unregistered65598 (Oct 4, 2010)

I have not gotten my canner yet but judy has pointed me in the right direction, my All American that will be here tomorrow has both, so per her help i will watch the dial, but if my dial is the right pressure and my weight is not moving I will continue to pressure up until it does, that way I will know for sure my food is safe. Thank you Judy for putting up with my stupid questions  I have another you have not answered as of yet on my thread  
Thanks again.


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## mousebandit (Feb 14, 2007)

Judy - here is a question that I"m hoping you can answer! I have seen on the altitude charts that when using a dial gauge, the pressure is to go up to 11 psi for 1001 - 2000 ft altitude. My question is, when canning within that altitude range, couldn't we simply let the weighted gauge rattle continuously, indicating that the pressure is at or above 11.5 pounds? I realize that this is not the "recommend" way of doing things (officially it should be set on the 15 pound weight), but I am just barely above that 1000 ft. elevation, and I find that much of my canning, especially meats, seem to end up over-processed. Thanks in advance!!

MouseBandit


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

judylou said:


> With all respect, unless you are talking about some of the off-brand electrics and the pressure cookers which aren't approved for canning, there are no pressure canners sold with only a gauge and haven't been for more than 20 years when the petcock was discontinued. All come with at least a 15 lb. counter-weight and we have talked before about how to use it to test the accuracy of your gauge and how to modify it.
> 
> hmmmmmmmmmmm, i bought a presto canner a couple years ago and it didnt come with a weight.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> Judy - here is a question that I"m hoping you can answer! I have seen on the altitude charts that when using a dial gauge, the pressure is to go up to 11 psi for 1001 - 2000 ft altitude. My question is, when canning within that altitude range, couldn't we simply let the weighted gauge rattle continuously, indicating that the pressure is at or above 11.5 pounds? I realize that this is not the "recommend" way of doing things (officially it should be set on the 15 pound weight), but I am just barely above that 1000 ft. elevation, and I find that much of my canning, especially meats, seem to end up over-processed. Thanks in advance!!


Hi mousebandit - to answer you accurately I'd need more information.

First because the altitude adjustments above 1000' varies from food to food. In fact for a dial gauge canner 11 lbs. is called for even below 1000'.

Also what brand of canner are we talking about? The weight action varies from brand to brand. While one might want to let a presto canner weight rattle continuously assuming they are using the right weight you sure wouldn't want to do it with an All American.

And when you say "couldn't we simply let the weighted gauge rattle continuously," - which weight? The 10 lb weight rattles at 10.5 not 11.5.

How much above 1000' are you? What makes you think your meats are over-processed? Can you compare them to canned meats done at a lower altitude? Have youhad your gauge tested? Have you compared your weights to your gauge to determine how accurate your gauge is? For example if your gauge reads 15.5-16 lbs. when the 15 lb. weight is accurately jiggling then you could safely use your gauge to process at 12, 13, 14, or 15 lbs.

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful without more info.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> hmmmmmmmmmmm, i bought a presto canner a couple years ago and it didnt come with a weight.


What is the model number Mare? Any chance it was some imported copy? Perhaps just a pressure cooker rather than a canner? All true Presto canners have come with at least the standard 15 lb. counter-weight for decades. You can go to their website and see all of their models both current and past.

http://www.gopresto.com/


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## jamala (May 4, 2007)

Sorry Posted in the wrong spot.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

judylou said:


> What is the model number Mare? Any chance it was some imported copy? Perhaps just a pressure cooker rather than a canner? All true Presto canners have come with at least the standard 15 lb. counter-weight for decades. You can go to their website and see all of their models both current and past.
> 
> http://www.gopresto.com/


the stock number on it is 01755. on closer look it says it is a pc and pressure cooker is that why it doesnt have the weight? my old one had the weight but i just didnt like it. i could never get it to jiggle right--but i guess i have trouble getting the gauge to stay at an even pressure too. i usually just go a little higher.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Stock number 01755 has both gauge and dial.

www.gopresto.com/products/products.php?stock=01755

Martin


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

The Presto website doesn't seem to be working right now but here is a picture of that model - Presto 16 qt. Model 01755 and as you can see it has both the dial gauge and the 15 lb. counterweight. It is a commonly used model owned by many folks.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00897315000P

Presto Model 01745 is the 16 qt. which has the 3 piece weight set but NO dial gauge.


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## PixieLou (May 1, 2010)

*mare* I have that same Presto 16 quart. The counter weight thing that you put on after 10 minutes of venting is what judylou is referring to as a weight. Which you normally do not use to moonitor your pressure while canning. You don't listen for the jiggle - you just pay attention to the dial. So it gets a bit confusing when it is referred to as a weight - since it really isn't a weight you actively use to can with.

*mousebandit* You could use your dial and can at the recommended 11 lbs of pressure instead of using the 15 lb weight. The time is the same as using the weight, but with the lower pressure maybe you would have better results with your food.


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## mare (Aug 31, 2006)

thanks everybody--now i get it. i was thinking of a different kind of weight..........


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

We have the 21-quart Presto canners that came with the dial and 15-lb counterweight. We ordered the weights and use them because they're easier & we don't have to go back into the kitchen after the timer is set, as long as we're within earshot.

We've watched the dials and when the 10-lb weights are on, the dials are always exactly at 10 lbs regardless of how fast the weights jiggle. We might not be doing it "right," but we don't set our heat so that the weights jiggle exactly at a certain rate. The weights and dials are precision instruments, but the operators don't have to be that precise. If they jiggle so fast that the noise is annoying, we turn them down. We keep them going fast enough that we don't have to listen for more than a few seconds from the other room to make sure they're working while we're doing other things.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Remember that when the weights are frantically jiggling there also is a lot of steam being released. Already have been a few people report boiling their canners dry. The steam can't always be seen so you can't tell how much water is being lost. 

Martin


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> is what judylou is referring to as a weight. So it gets a bit confusing when it is referred to as a weight - since it really isn't a weight you actively use to can with.


No Pixie, I consistently labeled it as the counter-weight. It is however a "weight". It is a 15 lb. weight machined to rock at 15.5 lbs. And if one lives at an altitude where 15 lbs. is required for most canning, it functions as a 15 lb. weight.

The confusion came from Mare apparently expecting some weight like the AA has and not understanding that different brands of canners have very different weight systems

For those who don't require 15 lb. then, as often discussed here, a 3 piece weight set (part # 50332) is readily available for the Presto canners that come with the gauge and counter-weight.

And I agree with Martin that "frantically jiggling" is to be avoided. With the Presto a slow steady gentle rocking is the goal, not frantic jiggling.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

For me, I would not want a canner that didn't have both weights and gauge. I use the weight to regulate the pressure and keep it constant by letting out a small amount of excess pressure, but I use the gauge to monitor build up and cool down.

And when my darn hotplate went haywire, I did learn that you can have your weight rocking like crazy and still have the unit gaining pressure. And when the AA weight (set in the 10 lb hole) cocks itself sidewise and you get a constant hiss - you can still keep building pressure if you've got enough heat underneath. 

it might be good for most people to put in only water and mess with their pressure canner on high heat, watch the guage and listen to the weight and see how things work. I'm not recommending getting into the danger zone! 

in my case, I finally resorted to unplugging the hot plate as I could not get it to lower the temp - the thermostat went out and it would not turn off high.


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## PixieLou (May 1, 2010)

judylou said:


> No Pixie,


Whatever. Mare was confused. I tried to help her. At least I didn't dis her with a few winks. Even you have given out incorrect information on this forum before.


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## judylou (Jun 19, 2009)

> At least I didn't dis her with a few winks.


Then my apologies. I never realized that the winks were considered "dis" or disrespecting someone. I see them used often and I have always thought they were just a friendly tip of the hat so to speak symbols like grins. Since they are considered disrespectful then by all means, I will quit using them.

As to incorrect info posted by me, if you see it please fell free to correct it. Differing opinions are one thing but actual incorrect info serves no one. I try to be as accurate as possible based on what I have been taught but no one is perfect.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

JudyLou, you can always adapt a standard like I did early on. That is, no emoticons. That way one can take my words for however they wish. In the case of any canning advice, I can only suggest that they be taken somewhat serious. And if you gals get miffed and leave the rest of us without anyone willing to answer the same questions over and over again, then we're in trouble!

Martin


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## margoC (Jul 26, 2007)

I like having both, I can't imagine having a guage only. I also retrofitted and old national #7 with AA parts. Like was mentioned, the guage is handy when monitoring the cool down stage and watching how long it takes to pressurize. It's nice not to have to depend on the guage for safety and accuracy, a lot of places don't do that anymore. 

If they "outlaw" canning someday, I can still safely can.


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## mousebandit (Feb 14, 2007)

For my question about letting the weight jiggle continuously, I have a Presto that I am using right now, and I also have an AA 941, which is huge and I haven't used it much. 

In my canning books, the altitude charts say that for veggies and meats, you process at the same times, but at 11 lbs. pressure for elevation up to 2000 ft. (10 lbs. being the needed pressure for 0-1000 ft., and adding 1 lb. for safety in case the gauge is off, then 1 lb. for each add'l 1000 ft. elevation). So, at my 1300 feet elevation, I would be canning veggies and meat at 11 lbs pressure on a dial gauge, but needing to go up to 15 lbs pressure with the weights. 

In the past, my attempts at meat came out totally tasteless, and stringy to the point of disintegrating when we ate them. VERY unappetizing. My thought was that they were overprocessed. BWB things that I can come out fine. Everything I canned in my classes (I did the MFP classes 3 years ago), both BWB and pressure, came out just fine.

So, when you were giving the specifics on exactly where the pressure was as the weight was jiggling or letting off steam, it got me to thinking that it might be possible to can at a little lower pressure with the presto, which only has the weight, no dial gauge to double-check. I would love to be able to can right at 11 or 11.5 with the weights. It sounds like this might be possible on the presto, but not necessarily on the AA.

THANKS!

Tracey


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