# Cost of Fleeces/fiber



## jd4020 (Feb 24, 2005)

Is there a cost per pound/ounce norm or is it just whatever a person thinks they can get? Right now there is some freisan, raw fleeces, both black & white and mixed ranging from 2 to 3# for $25.00. The seller says they are just off the sheeps back-nothings been done to them. Is that a fair/good price? 
I know different wools/fibers are going to range in price but I guess I'd like to know just what range to look for.
I wouldn't mind washing a fleece-- (have to learn sometime) and all that, but when the directions say wash in hot water, is there an exact temperature?
Sometimes I think I've got it all down, then someone does it a different way and then I get confused.
As far as cleaning a greasy dirty fleece--here is what I've summarized--
--hot water and soap --Again, there have been differences on which soap to use, some like dawn, some don't---does it matter as long as it gets the grease and dirt out?
--put fleece in, dunk it a few times but do not swish/agitate don't want to just redistribute the grease so would you do the hot soapy water more than once?
--rinse---several times,--til the water runs clear ? and does one use the same temp water as what the wash water temp is?
--squeeze--never wring---out the water, roll up in a towel a few times, then lay it out on a screen table to let dry.
--after drying ready for ?skirting? and skirting is what---picking and cleaning out debris?
--fluffing for carding either by hand or by drum, batts, (roving, rolag, are these the same thing?) 
--now you can spin
--after spinning, then plying, then another washing to set the twist? roll up in towel to dry it out 
--smacking/thwacking the damp yarn, (some say optional) then hang til totally dry
--Now it's ready for the hook, needles, or loom (or whatever)

There's also the letting it sit in a covered tub of rainwater for several days/weeks to clean it but I see that as a summer cleaning. 
Which brings me to my next thought, is there a best time of year to buy fleeces? I thought most people shear in the spring, but saw someone was shearing now. I am interested in the blue faced leister, and more alpaca but would be willing to work with other types as well, but where do I find them? Do you just drive into the farm and say you want to buy a fleece or is there a co-op that sells for a group of people? I'm sure it can be done these ways, I just don't know where to start. 
hohh boy..... 
God bless & thanks.
jd


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## Chaty (Apr 4, 2008)

I have bought some Alpaca fleece off ebay with good results you just have to know what you are looking for and what type you want. I have gotten Llama off there also and like I said it basically is what cuts you want and if you want the blanket it is higher. They have all types of fleece there too. I also use shampoo to clean mine as it comes out better that some dish soap that are too harsh for fiber.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

What WIHH said. You might have to wash it several times. As for the particular fleece you have available- why are they shearing now? Is it a 2nd shearing? How long are the locks? Less than 1 1/2 inches is hard for me to spin.

If a sheep isn't fed, wormed and otherwise taken care of properly - the fleece can break along the length of the locks when you try to use it. I'd ask for a sample - if they won't send it, I wouldn't buy it.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Freisan are a dairy sheep and don't have particularly soft fleeces. I have bought a Freisan fleece, it would be suitable for socks maybe but not really a next to the skin fleece.


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## jd4020 (Feb 24, 2005)

Have you put it together yet that I really---underline that---don't know what I'm doing?
For some reason this desire to learn to spin hit me in the spring. It seems as if everything is falling into place to do so, but figuring the process out is becoming quite the adventure. Been reading books, and the threads in here, listening to people, & watching the infinite you tube segments on how to make this work. 

"Its hard to know - is this person a reputable fleece/fiber producer who knows how to grow fleece - not just sheep? Does she breed for meat or fleece or use sheep just to manage pastureland? Does she have any idea what her micron count is? Has she had them sheared properly? Is the flock well managed nutritionally? Parasites? Are they fed on the ground or do they have hay dumped down on their backs or do they eat from hay racks?"

WIHH, I sincerely thank you for all the info in your post but in answer to these few questions you put forth, I don't even know the answer to them. sadly. Have never even crossed my mind til now and that's why I'm asking. My Grampa had sheep, but he more or less used them for lawnmowers to keep the barnyard eaten down. When he sheared in April, I guess he let the guy shearing them have the wool, because no one used it for anything. I sort of wish now I had an interest in the whole process while growing up, but I won't lament water under the bridge at this point. 
I thought skirting was the cleaning & that it did come before the washing but just needed to verify it I guess.
See, what things do you make using lofty & airy yarn & what things do you make using slick & smooth? 
So far I have just been buying wool that's ready to spin and enjoying getting to know how these wheels work. I'm not up to the level of what fiber is used for which article of clothing I might be learning to make.  But getting there, little by little.
Chaty--I have bought some alpaca--ready to spin and it is very nice. No problem with it at all. But I have alpaca fiber (6 bags of it) and it is not been skirted or washed. I've been working with it, but I wanted to see what or how much difference there was in the fiber that was already to go and what to aim for. And,,, maybe the fiber I already have is not great quality. It feels nice and it's working up well enough, but I just don't know. I know at this point I am satisfied and comfortable with it.
Yes, now that makes sense about using shampoo to clean with. Would the shampoos for horses for show be a good choice or does any shampoo, cheap or costly fit the need?
Calieslamb--It was someone here on HT who mentioned they were getting ready to shear, I can't remember who or which thread.
Marchwind--I have the book The Fleece & Fiber Sourcebook and have been reading on the different animals that produce and the pages talking about the Friesan did say good for the more courser outerwear. In my "goals" for what I want to make, I would very much like to have these coarser garments to wear while working outside. I would very definitely have to wear a softer garment in between but I layer a lot anyway so that's not an issue for me. Whilst I can appreciate the dual purpose animals, there again, there may be better choices for the coarser outer wear from a different sheep. 
I do not know the person who has the friesan fleeces for $25.00, they are just the person who sheared them and are now offering them for sale. 
Thank you all so much for your helpful input. I appreciate it so much and for your patience in my more becoming more knowledgeable in this endeavor. 
God bless,
jd


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

i just got two east frisian sheep  
i got the lamb fleece from first shearing which i spun too tight and it got a bit wiry. luckily it was just a small amount and the majority is still there. then i got their yearling fleece and now bought the two sheep that will be sheared in a couple of weeks. this is a very white fleece almost glowing and should give some vibrant colors if dyed.
i heard that east frisian does not felt but have not tried it yet.
i got some cormo from http://www.riverwindsfarm.com/ too and loved it. sooo clean. another source for excellent fleece is gleason fine woolies, http://www.gfwsheep.com/shear.price.html. she has bond, corriedale and bond/corrie mix. after getting fleece from her it is difficult to find something that would top the quality.


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

QUOTE=Marchwind;5588209]Freisan are a dairy sheep and don't have particularly soft fleeces. I have bought a Freisan fleece, it would be suitable for socks maybe but not really a next to the skin fleece.[/QUOTE]

Hi,

I only check this section once in a while, but it seems to have been good timing this evening.

There are only a few fullblood East Friesian sheep here in the U.S. and those people probably aren't the ones selling fleeces to handspinners and fiber artists. So, it all depends on what individual sheep are crossed with. I raise high percentage East Friesians and had a fullblood (100%) ram a few years ago. My foundation ewe flock came from a shepherdess who milked her girls and was a handspinner, concentrating on wool quality. I have continued to breed, 13 years later, for fleece quality (and milk production), and sell the majority of my wool to fiber artists at a sheep and wool festival here in WI. It depends on what the breed is crossed with and as Callie mentioned, the health and care of the animal makes a huge difference! Even though my sheep include a variety of breeds including Polypay, Merino and others, each fleece varies depending on how much of each of the breeds happens to come through and can even vary each year. As already mentioned, a person is much better off buying from someone who has experience and a good reputation. Unfortunately most people don't know what their Friesians are crossed with so it is definitely best to buy from those who will send samples or have experience selling their fleeces to fiber artists. My East Friesian x fleeces have been used for spinning and felting. Depending on the individual sheep, some of the soft (finer) wool can be used for close to the skin garments, others are better for felting, some better for over garments or socks, hats, scarves. 

Thanks for reading and I hope this is helpful.

Deb
(usually hanging out on the sheep section of HT)


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Deb thank you! That is very helpful to know. Would you be wiling to sell any of your fleeces to us 

I think the bottom line is, you will just have to learn from experience. Attend one or more of the many sheep and wool shows/festivals and keep asking lots of questions. In the end you will learn best from your own trial and error. There is still something to be learned from obtaining a bad fleece.


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

eieiomom said:


> There are only a few fullblood East Friesian sheep here in the U.S. and those people probably aren't the ones selling fleeces to handspinners and fiber artists. So, it all depends on what individual sheep are crossed with. I raise high percentage East Friesians and had a fullblood (100%) ram a few years ago. My foundation ewe flock came from a shepherdess who milked her girls and was a handspinner, concentrating on wool quality. I have continued to breed, 13 years later, for fleece quality (and milk production), and sell the majority of my wool to fiber artists at a sheep and wool festival here in WI. It depends on what the breed is crossed with and as Callie mentioned, the health and care of the animal makes a huge difference! Even though my sheep include a variety of breeds including Polypay, Merino and others, each fleece varies depending on how much of each of the breeds happens to come through and can even vary each year. As already mentioned, a person is much better off buying from someone who has experience and a good reputation. Unfortunately most people don't know what their Friesians are crossed with so it is definitely best to buy from those who will send samples or have experience selling their fleeces to fiber artists. My East Friesian x fleeces have been used for spinning and felting. Depending on the individual sheep, some of the soft (finer) wool can be used for close to the skin garments, others are better for felting, some better for over garments or socks, hats, scarves.
> 
> Thanks for reading and I hope this is helpful.
> 
> ...


that was very interesting. 
i know my ram is 87% east frisian and rest is merino. he clearly has a different fleece, finer crimp and softer handle then the ewe that is 97% (no idea what the rest is) her fleece looks more open and does not has a defined crimp. both have the typical east friesian (rat)tail and are much bigger then the corriedales.
i was always told that east frisian does not felt. 
i have dairy goats and did not really buy them for their wool but thought it would be nice to have some sheeps milk for cheese.
do you milk your sheep?


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

i wash fleece with orvus paste and have good result with it.


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## jd4020 (Feb 24, 2005)

Deb--nice to meet you.
Thank you all so very much. I visited those links you provided and the cormo looks so very nice. I will be jotting this down to add to my info notebook for future reference.
I also will try to make it to some of the closer fiber festivals. Is there a link that would give a time table for the different festivals in the Illinois/Wisconsin/Indiana/Iowa areas? 
And that makes sense in thinking about the fiber in a foggy or sharp & clear weather way.
And you're right in that the fiber has much to say about what it would be good for, just the few I've been working with feel different. I've not got the courage to start spinning the silk/alpaca blend. I would like to make it into a shawl, but I don't want to ruin it by not having enough skill to spin it right. 
God bless,
jd


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

Marchwind,
You are welcome, it's a pleasure sharing information. I've sold fleece and breeding stock to people (in real life), that were HT members. Most recently I sent fleece to Callie and would be happy to talk with others via personal messages or email, as I'd rather not interfere with someone elses original post.

Susanne, 
It's likely that your percentages are not quite that high and the softer fleece is probably due to more of the Rambouillet (not Merino) coming through the Polypay represented in your cross. Unfortunately, the East Friesians are being misrepresented here in the U.S. including claims of being 100% or high percentage, when they are not.
One cannot tell by the physical characteristics (i.e. rat tail). It's not as big a deal when selling fiber or keeping for personal use, but in the long run this will hurt the future of the breed in the way of misrepresented breeding stock and their offspring.
Before raising and selling dairy breeding stock, I raised Lincoln Longwools for many years and people sold what they claimed were full blood Lincolns and registered their animals when they had Romney rams breed their Lincolns, this came through in their offspring in latter years.

Regarding your milking question, It would probably be best to send you a pm rather than distract from the original post/topic, listed here...look for a message soon 

Jd,
Thank ewe. 
Here are a couple links to share:
WI Sheep and Wool Festival: http://wisconsinsheepandwoolfestival.com/
If I make it there next Sept and you visit, please stop by, say hi and stick your hands in my flock's gorgeous fleeces. I've been at the same booth for the last 10 years-2nd on the right when you enter the country store-west.
It has grown to be quite an event and also offers a wide choice of classes !
A customer /friend who milks, makes soap and sells her quality fiber in Indiana one of those links are: http://www.thefiberevent.com/index.html 

I'm sure the fiber fanatics here already know where all the shows are 

~Deb


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

well, of course i don't have any documentation to prove anything. i just can repeat what i was told when i got them. what makes you think that this is not true without even seeing them? why do you think it is not merino crossed in the ram but rambouillet? just curious.
looking forward to your post about milking 
no, i don't have any plans selling east frisian breeding stock. this was solely for some extra sheep milk for cheese production. fleece is just extra bonus.


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

Susanne,

Just sent you a pm 

Deb


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Susanne do you sell your cheese?


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

This link was just listed on another sheep forum I'm on, just in case it hasn't been listed here before, looks like a good one...

http://fiberarts.org/calendar/

~Deb

P.S. This is the main link, the above is the calendar: http://fiberarts.org/


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Hey Deb, can you start a separate thread and post both of these link in that. They are much too valuable to be hidden here in this thread.

Thanks so much

BTW, I'm really glad you have joined our group. I think you have a lot of valuable information to share with us.


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

Marchwind said:


> Hey Deb, can you start a separate thread and post both of these link in that. They are much too valuable to be hidden here in this thread.
> Thanks so much
> BTW, I'm really glad you have joined our group. I think you have a lot of valuable information to share with us.



Sure, should I add to the sticky "Links of interest" or ?

Thank ewe, just like to offer help when I can.

~Deb


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Nope, nope just a thread all by itself if you don't mind  Thanks!


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

Marchwind said:


> Susanne do you sell your cheese?


not allowed in michigan without a license


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