# on the grid solar energy



## Jennifer Brewer (Aug 3, 2005)

my DH and i are in the beginning stages of planning to build a new house.

i really want on the grid solar, and our area offers net metering. we've also designed the house to take advantage of passive solar heat in the winter, and are looking into radiant heat flooring, hoping to use use solar to power that as well.

i've seen some really cool amourphous panels that is a laminate that lays between the seams of standing seam metal roof (which is what we would like to use) is any one familiar with this product?

i think it is more expensive than regular panels, but it is not as affected by extreme heat in the summer, supposably. I read about it @ MotherEarthnews

any advise?

is this something we can DIY?

how do you decide how big of a system you need?


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Is this the stuff you're thinking about?

http://www.uni-solar.com/interior.asp?id=102


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## Jennifer Brewer (Aug 3, 2005)

exactly. but it says on the site that due to high demands they will only be serving california until mid 06. which may work, but i want info NOW.

like how much? how big of a system will i need? can i buy a complete kit and install it myself?


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Jennifer Brewer said:


> exactly. but it says on the site that due to high demands they will only be serving california until mid 06. which may work, but i want info NOW.
> 
> like how much? how big of a system will i need? can i buy a complete kit and install it myself?


Seeing as it's a new product most of that you're going to have to find out thru the distributer. A list of them is available on the website. 

As for size we need to know how much electricity you use in a month and what state your in? Maybe even town/county to get solar figures and net-metering rules vary greatly from state to state. 

Do you want to to supply all you electrical needs or only part? Many people on grid system only plan on generating about 3/4 of thier needs because the rules don't pay to generate any extra at all.


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## Jennifer Brewer (Aug 3, 2005)

the zip we are building in is 64029. that's JAckson County MO. It's real hard to estimate our monthly electric because the house we currently live in is 
a) half the size of the future house
b)not nearly as energy efficient as the future house will be (cheaply insulated, leaky foundation with forced air, etc etc. we did install new windows though)
c) new house will probably be all electric, except for maybe a propane boiler. current is gas electric

summer time electric was 120 a mo last summer, before the new windows.

we would like to supply alot of our electric needs, like you suggested, 3/4, or maybe less because i think missouri does not have yearly net metering, just monthly and we will surely use less in the winter i hope.

since we will be building from scratch, we plan on orienting the house so the longest sidefaces south, true south that is, for maximum efficiency


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

According to DSIRE there is no net metering law for MO

http://www.dsireusa.org/library/includes/map2.cfm?CurrentPageID=1&State=MO&RE=1&EE=0

You will be at the whim of the power company. They may have a set policy and allow it. Without a state law it's whatever you can negotiate with them. Which usually isn't much.

I also found this on there interconection page:



> Missouri House Bill 1402, enacted in 2002, provides for the interconnection of wind, biomass, fuel cell and photovoltaic (PV) systems up to 100 kilowatts (kW) in capacity. Although the bill refers to this arrangement as "net metering," this is false. Under Missouri's law, any electricity fed by a generator into the grid is credited on the customer's next bill at the utility's avoided-cost rate, not the retail rate. (Under a "true" net-metering arrangement, all electricity generated by a customer during a given billing period is credited at the utility's retail rate.) Net excess generation (NEG) during a billing period also is credited at the utility's avoided-cost rate on the customer's next bill. A utility does not have to enroll qualifying customer-generators beyond an aggregate limit of 10 megawatts (MW) or 0.1% of the utility's peak load for the previous year (whichever is less).


Since you would only be getting paid at the avoided cost rate and billed at the retail rate you would end up in a losing situation. If you even want to consider alt. energy I would strongly suggest an off-grid system.

As for usage I think you stated dollars. Can you find out "kilowatts per month"?


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## Jennifer Brewer (Aug 3, 2005)

last month, 377 kwh used.



average is 300-400 per month in winter, spring and fall,

but last summer (june through sept) were 700, 1100,1300, and 800, respectively.
again, with a poorly designed house and old windows.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/calculators/PVWATTS/version1/US/Missouri/St_Louis.html

Enter a DC rating for the size of system you would want. A 4kw system would generate the winter monthly figures in the 300 to 400 kw range. You can also enter roof angle (array tilt) and variance from south (array azimuth) for the building


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## Jennifer Brewer (Aug 3, 2005)

recap on what i'm learning

so the product i want, the unisolar laminates, is A)not available in this area yet B)will have to be installed by a pro. and C)i still don't know how much it costs.

but i do now know that a 4 Kwh system would be a good match for us, espescially if we can get our consumption down in the new house. and that because of missouri's "net metering" guidelines, it will do us absolutely no good to produce more than we need, and may even be better to have batteries instead of net metering?

well perhaps i should consider a different brand?
any idea of a rough estimate of cost for a brand of system you would recomend?


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Tho Mich claims to have "net metering" in my area the local utility currently will sell to me at 0.083 cents per KWH.
And those same wonderfull folks will credit me at 0.0295 cents.
--------this is net metering...???---------
Yup the "avoided costs" excuse

Don't get me wrong........I DO NOT want to discourage anybody from getting a system... But folks have got to realize that the *utilitys* that welcome us are few and very far between.
All to often the truth really hurts. 

"not available in this area yet" Not so. More likely--is there a certified installer in *your* area. I know of a good guy in the St Louis area, but I don't know if he does the Uni Solar product.
Yes there are many other *brands* that will get the job done and look good up on the roof.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

here is some pricing! http://www.advancedenergyonline.com/catalog/solar/unisolar.htm#integrated

$738.00 for 128 watts just for the product.


Jill


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