# Refrigeration after TEOTWAWKI



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

I think I have posted most of this info before but Angie asked me to post it again. I hope someone finds the info useful. And please let me know if you try any of this.

As was brought out in the book _One Second After_ refrigeration can be life saving and we all know its important. One thing about the book that bothered me about the book was there was no one who know about using ammonia, NH3, for cooling. Here are two fairly simple ways of doing it. 

FYI, this first link is NOT a NH3-H2O system. This makes if different than any other system I have ever found. 

The link below is for a solar powered ice maker. Its simple, can be built with common items and if need be all the work you would have to do is exchange the ice with water once a day. The major draw back is its huge.

http://www.instructables.com/files/orig/F0V/LWVJ/G6MPPX21/F0VLWVJG6MPPX21.pdf


They next system is called an icy ball. It is a NH3-H2O system and it is NOT that simple. It also requires more effort on your part. Its a micro system which can be used with a old chest type freezer (or even an ice chest) to make a refrigerator. Here is one site with plans to build one but a little online research should give you enough knowledge to build one.

The first link is to page with a brief history of the icy ball.

Crosley IcyBall


The second is a page is a linked to the first page (all the way on bottom Home Built) I just thought some might like to just jump to a bit about building one.

Home Built IcyBall


The third is to the instruction page from the second link. So if you just want to start right in building one you can go there.

Building Your Own Larry Hall Icyball


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Thanks for posting this watcher


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Ammonia was pretty much abandoned for refrigeration with cause. As noted, 200 psi +pressures are required, and it a just plain NASTY chemical to be around. A more recent consideration is that AA is used in drug maufacture and asking around for it is going to get you put on a "We better watch that guy" list.

If you can't operate a simple compressor in a SHTF situation, you sure as heck aren't going to have a reliable technology for handling 200PSI anhydrous ammonia. To think so is just fairy tale thinking.

Other than for medicine, the need for refrigeration to below 50 degrees is pretty much a recent development, based in part by loss of the old methods of preserving and handling foods.

Cold storage, trompes, eductors, thermosymphon technology, evaporation systems and desiccants are much more low tech, safe and do-able.


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## snakeshooter1 (Mar 8, 2009)

Why not just scavenge an old refrigerator freezer from a old RV? They can be made to run using just about any kind of heat source, I'm told a candle will work in a pinch. ETA This does seem like a very interesting project though.


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## Riverrat (Oct 14, 2008)

For me, I will just build and ice house...sawdust and ice and you have a fridge all summer.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

spring house


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Harry Chickpea said:


> Ammonia was pretty much abandoned for refrigeration with cause. As noted, 200 psi +pressures are required, and it a just plain NASTY chemical to be around. A more recent consideration is that AA is used in drug maufacture and asking around for it is going to get you put on a "We better watch that guy" list.
> 
> If you can't operate a simple compressor in a SHTF situation, you sure as heck aren't going to have a reliable technology for handling 200PSI anhydrous ammonia. To think so is just fairy tale thinking.
> 
> ...


The dangers of NH3 are, IMO, overrated. One thing is the smallest leak is instantly detectable. Another is the amount of it we are talking about.

NH2-H2O systems were used for decades and is still working in many places. 

If you don't want to work with it fine. I have no problem working with neither NH3 nor 200 psi.


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I can keep everything I need to in a springhouse and no ice. Meat is fresh, dried, canned, salted in a crock or smoked. I do have a very small solar refrigerator now however....James


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## hsmom2four (Oct 13, 2008)

I printed this out for my husband to look at. His company's cooler runs on ammonia. I bet we could make something like that. If anything it would be a good science project for my son. 

There is another place around the block from him that also still uses ammonia for their coolers and also there is a plant nursery that they rent their cooler out to in the off months for flower storage that still also uses ammonia. Seems like in our area it is still used a lot.


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## rhome (Aug 10, 2006)

This idea comes from a book ;Sunshine to Dollars, pub '06
I read this DIY info some time ago and don't recall all the details.
You gut out a small dormitory frig.
The cooling coil goes into a shallow pan of salt water, another shallow pan of fresh water sits in this.
All this is in a well insulated box.
The compressor sits outside the box and is plugged into an appropriate sized inverter.
Finally the inverter is connected to a marine battery, charge controler and I believe it was a 40 watt solar panel. The actual ice production was impressive.
This DIY project seemed easy enough even for this solar/tech dummy.
If there is any solar/tech pros here please add your advice for this set up.


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## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

I would like to build something like this since an ice house is not an option in Florida 

I have looked into propane fridges but they are expensive and you are back to square one if you run out of propane and a source to obtain more.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Thats awesome but looks complicated.


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## kabic (May 12, 2009)

What about using a stirling engine driven by a windmill or other mechanical means to refrigerated. Here is a YouTube video where he drives his stirling engine with a motor and drops the temp of his insulated box to 36 degrees a drop of 57 degrees.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ImmaKORSII]DIY Stirling engine heat pump/refrigerator cools to 36Â°F - YouTube[/ame]


I donât fully understand them but from what I understand stirling engines work in two directions.

1) Apply heat and you can generate motion.
2) Apply motion and you can generate heat & refrigeration.

And here is a page that has some examples.
Let's Build Model Stirling Engines -English-


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Good information in this thread. I nominate it for the archive or a sticky


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

rhome said:


> This idea comes from a book ;Sunshine to Dollars, pub '06
> I read this DIY info some time ago and don't recall all the details.
> You gut out a small dormitory frig.
> The cooling coil goes into a shallow pan of salt water, another shallow pan of fresh water sits in this.
> ...


The book is available here:Books on Solar, Hydrogen, Fuel Cell, Wind Energy, Biomass Energy, All DIY and How To and More... Written by Steven Harris, who is a guest on The Survival Podcast about once a month talking about this kind of stuff.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

hsmom2four said:


> I printed this out for my husband to look at. His company's cooler runs on ammonia. I bet we could make something like that. If anything it would be a good science project for my son.
> 
> There is another place around the block from him that also still uses ammonia for their coolers and also there is a plant nursery that they rent their cooler out to in the off months for flower storage that still also uses ammonia. Seems like in our area it is still used a lot.


From my research years ago using NH3 for cooling/refrigeration is more efficient than 'conventional' compression systems. If there is a fairly large volume of "waste heat" being produced NH3 systems blow the conventional systems completely out of the water due to the fact there is almost no additional energy needed.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Darntootin said:


> Thats awesome but looks complicated.


The icy ball is fairly complicated. The ice maker isn't. It can be built with off the shelf items. It can be made with no welding required just threaded and compression fittings. The hardest thing would be the first NH3 charging of the system.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

kabic said:


> What about using a stirling engine driven by a windmill or other mechanical means to refrigerated. Here is a YouTube video where he drives his stirling engine with a motor and drops the temp of his insulated box to 36 degrees a drop of 57 degrees.
> 
> DIY Stirling engine heat pump/refrigerator cools to 36Â°F - YouTube
> 
> ...


I've looked into that and there are problems. For one Stirlings have a poor size/weight to power ratio. Second everything I have read says they do not work well, if at all, with the temps you can get with solar.

I have even looked into using a Minto wheel to drive a compressor.

Minto wheel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

watcher said:


> I've looked into that and there are problems. For one Stirlings have a poor size/weight to power ratio. Second everything I have read says they do not work well, if at all, with the temps you can get with solar.


I think in this case the Stirling engine is not being driven by solar heat, but instead by a motor...so the reverse of how a Stirling engine is usually used. It's just another type of heat pump. I have no idea how efficient it is, though.

ETA: To clarify, in the video, rather than using a temperature differential to create rotary motion, the Stirling engine is using rotary motion to create a temperature differential.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

Thanks, I will look it up. Just finished reading one second after last night and had the oddest dreams!


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## hsmom2four (Oct 13, 2008)

watcher said:


> From my research years ago using NH3 for cooling/refrigeration is more efficient than 'conventional' compression systems. If there is a fairly large volume of "waste heat" being produced NH3 systems blow the conventional systems completely out of the water due to the fact there is almost no additional energy needed.


Yes that's what my husband said when I asked him. Its dirt cheap to run an ammonia system. He also pointed out that all the grocery stores (he used to be a store mgr) around here and also Sysco use ammonia.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

As was mentioned ,just get an RV fridge. They use the ammonia cycle just like the Crosley icyball. A 3 way fridge is best, runs on 120 V AC, 12V and propane. There are some that have been adapted to run on kerosene. You could probably even use an oil lamp, but you have to clean it off regularly.


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## no1butcherman (Sep 6, 2007)

Danby propane refrigerator for sale nice fridge I came across if someone needs one.


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