# "Bruising" on newborn kits



## Guest (Sep 24, 2009)

In the past, whenever there was a dead kit in the nestbox after kindling, it almost always had what I referred to as "bruising". B/c my babies are almost always all white (pink at birth), this looks like blue/purple/black areas of the skin. Sometimes the bruising would be on the side/abdomen, other times it would be on the hindquarters. I always assumed it was a bruise or internal bleeding from birth complications OR that the doe had stepped on them in this area, and they then died from the trauma.

So yesterday one of my does kindled 6 kits. One she bit the head off of, and another had bite marks on it's face (but is still alive). I assumed she pulled them out. Although the one w/o the head was the same size as the live ones, and the one who has the bite marks is significantly smaller. Anyway, I can't believe this one with the bite marks is still alive. I don't expect it to make it much longer, as it has bruising of this nature all over its body. But then, today I was examining the other 4 healthy kits, and noticed that most of them have spots of this purple bruising on them as well. Are they going to be okay? They act like normal 1 day old popples. Fat bellies. What's the bruising from? Anyone else experience this? 

I know it's not just colored skin for colored hair when they get it. These are NZW babies.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

It could just be normal birthing trauma - they get squooged around pretty good coming out, and their skin is quite thin. Or, maybe momma did stomp on them. If she had to pull them out, she must have had a hard time.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

If the "bruising" is happening on kits from other does as well, I'd say it is likely birthing trauma. I have never noticed anything like that, but not that many of my kits are born pink. 

If it is just on kits from this doe, combined with the biting/decapitation, I'd think it is likely that this particular doe has problems during labour. But unless you are able to observe (good luck, unless you have a bunny-cam) it is impossible to do more than guess.


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## vikav (Mar 30, 2009)

One of my NZR kits had a pretty bruised face for the first couple of days. I assumed, from being squished at birth. It's fine now.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

If a kit gets stuck, they grab it with their mouth. Rabbits don't have 'grabbing' paws, so they must do all their pulling with teeth... which can cause problems. If they get stuck good enough, they'll stop caring about the health of the kit and worry about just getting it out. I bet the one with the head missing was the troublemaker, and the one after that she had to assist because she was tired at that point, and is the one with the bite marks.  

Bruising is normal to and usually occurs to some degree on all kits but some you can't see it that well on. 

In my mice and rats that I breed for pet/feeder, I often see birthing trauma because they assist their births the same way. You'd be surprised at the injury size and how well some heal! I'd give it a chance and see if it pulls through. I'd also consider supplementing with a dropper of supplemental feed if the injuries make it hard for it to nurse, or to flip the doe for it.


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2009)

You know how when human babies are born and they sometimes have "cone heads" from going through the birth canal? And with the cone head comes the red/purple bruising? This is exactly what it looks like on the buns.

Now, in the past, I only found this bruising on the kits that I found dead. This is this doe's 3rd litter and she's 2 years old. Her first litter was a year ago, and she had 8, and I *think* the lady I got her from said one was stillborn. Her 2nd litter was just 10 weeks ago, and she had 6, one was dead, with the bruising on the abdobmen/hind leg. But this litter, they all have the bruising.


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## Bamboorabbit (Jan 22, 2009)

Lyndseyrk said:


> In the past, whenever there was a dead kit in the nestbox after kindling, it almost always had what I referred to as "bruising".


If dead what you are seeing is not neccesarily a bruise......it is called livor mortis and is a natural part of the after death process. Basically the red blood cells settle due to gravity to the lower portions of the body and it looks like a bruise that was caused by injury. It looks like a bruise because is blood, under the skin same as a bruise, the only difference is in this case death caused it not trauma.

Now if they are alive I would be more inclined to guess it is a doe stepping on them.


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## Terry W (Mar 10, 2006)

Livor mortis?

(Slaps hand over mouth)


I know what you are trying to explain, but darn if I can't remember the terminology for blood pooling that occurs post mortem. 
I have not seen this pooling happen in the dead kits I have found--probably due to the fact that most of the ones i find are either fresh deads (no rigor has occurred) or that they died from being cold. An aninmal that dies from being cold wil have its blood supply pretty much concentrated around the vital organs. When rigor nsets in, the muscles will harden. After the rigor process is over, the body then softens up again, and if the blood has not clotted, it will pool-- ah the word!!!! It just came--:bash:

lividity. think of the blood rushing to persons face when they are "livid" (angry)

now I know how you came up with 'livor' mortis. My sister would hire you as a lexicographer ( a person who makes up new words--especially usefull with the way technology changes so rapidly)


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2009)

Well, the one weaker kit died. Once dead, had more "bruising" in the abodomen area. I don't know how long it had been dead when I found it, but is was still limp (not stiff) and very warm, mostly because it was still nestled in with the other kits. The live kits are doing well, and the bruising on them is gone.


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## Bamboorabbit (Jan 22, 2009)

Terry W said:


> Livor mortis?
> 
> 
> now I know how you came up with 'livor' mortis. My sister would hire you as a lexicographer ( a person who makes up new words--especially usefull with the way technology changes so rapidly)


I didn't come up with livor mortis  It is what the condition is called....



From wiki:

Livor mortis or postmortem lividity or hypostasis (Latin: livorâbluish color, mortisâof death), one of the signs of death, is a settling of the blood in the lower (dependent) portion of the body, causing a purplish red discoloration of the skin: when the heart is no longer agitating the blood, heavy red blood cells sink through the serum by action of gravity. This discoloration does not occur in the areas of the body that are in contact with the ground or another object, as the capillaries are compressed.

Coroners can use the presence or absence of livor mortis as a means of determining an approximate time of death. The presence of livor mortis is an indication of when it would be irrelevant to begin CPR, or when it is ineffective to continue it if it is in progress. It can also be used by forensic investigators to determine whether or not a body has been moved (for instance, if the body is found lying face down but the pooling is present on the deceased's back, investigators can determine that the body was originally positioned face up).

Livor mortis starts 20 minutes to 3 hours after death and is congealed in the capillaries in 4 to 5 hours. Maximum lividity occurs within 6-12 hours. The blood pools into the interstitial tissues of the body.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Here's a site that explains the three terms briefly (rigor mortis, livor mortis and algor mortis).

http://forensicfact.wordpress.com/2...d-how-is-it-useful-to-forensic-investigators/


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## Terry W (Mar 10, 2006)

Now why didn't the forensics prof call it that? GRRRR pay for courses and don't get all the info!!!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Terry W said:


> Now why didn't the forensics prof call it that? GRRRR pay for courses and don't get all the info!!!


The prof probably called it lividity, which I believe is the more commonly used term, at least verbally. I had never heard of either livor mortis or algor mortis by those terms until now, although I was somewhat familiar with the concept.


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