# 7mm 08?



## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

As my kids get older, I will need a new rifle for them to share, until they can handle a bit more recoil. I have been looking at a calibre that will be good for large deer, black bear, on up to moose, with minimized recoil.

The more I study up on the 7mm 08, the more this cal. looks like a winner. Good trajectory, good energy, moderate recoil, etc.

Do you all think it would be a good choice for a 12 year old? Had looked a 25 06, but lightish for moose/ borderline elk/bear. A 270 is great, but recoil a bit much maybe, and a long action. Have a 308, but recoil may be an issue. Like a 308 being almost as good as an 06 but in a smaller package, a 7 08 will do anything and more that a 270 will do, in a short action.

What say you? Any other suggestions?


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

The 7mm-08 is a ballistic twin of the 7mm Mauser, like the .260 (6.5mm-08) is a twin of the 6.5mm Swede; but each in the short action.

Karamojo Bell took several thousand elephants with the 7mm Mauser, placing his shots carefully.

Nuff said on that subject?

Now: the rifle. I'd suggest looking hard at the Savage. You can switch barrels on them easy and accurate at home if you must. If it really turns out he just can't handle the recoil of the 7mm, you could easily back way back to the .243W (6mm-08) for a couple of years, then return to the 7mm.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

FWIW, I shot a savage 110 in 308. It will hurt you! Hardest recoil I have ever experienced. I traded it off and bought an encore in 308 and it's like shooting a 223. Everyone talks good about savage by my experience wasn't so good with that one.I've never shot a 30-06 that kicked like that.


Wade


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I've got a 7mm Mauser.. the 7mm does kick a little harder than I think a young kid would like... It's just the 7-08 in a longer case.

In these parts, most kids hunt with a .243

My wife loves shooting my 6.5 swed. very low recoil, which is on par with the .243


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I have two 7MM08's One is a Remington Model 7 with a Pentex 2.5x7 power Pentex scope. I set it up for hunting deep dark thick cedar swamps. I would use in on any game you mentioned and allow a 12 year old to use it with out qualms.

Second one is a Remington 700 mountain rifle with a Pentex 3x9 scope set up for shooting long range across cranberry bogs and down the beach. It I also would hunt the game you mentioned and allow a 12 year old to hunt with it. 
Fine caliber and will do for just about every north American game animal. I would only worry when it comes to the larger grizzly bears.


 Al


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Dale,

Instead of spending your money on a new gun, buy a basic reloading set up.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/12...k-single-stage-press-kit?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Load rounds for your 308 tailored for the recoil the kids can handle, the critters you are hunting, and the accuracy in your particular gun.

Recoil is a function of the weight of the bullet, the muzzle velocity of the bullet, and the weight of the gun. You should be able to achieve the recoil the kids like.

Reloaded ammo is cheaper so they can practice more. A reloading set up is a good prep.


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## gundog10 (Dec 9, 2014)

The 7mm08 will work just fine and is an excellent round. I have been hunting for over 40 years and here is my advice. For a 12 year old, I would keep the bullet weight down. Start him off with 100-110 grain and work him up to 130 grains. The 130 will cleanly kill dear and black bear just make sure you are buying rounds with hunting bullets and not target bullets. Remington core locks would do just fine. The recoil from these lighter rounds are substantially less then 150-175 grain bullets.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Depending on the gun you're shooting of course,but the 308 shouldn't have to be stepped down for a 12 year old. It's a sweet little round and has a lot of impact for a little recoil. As always,shot placement is going to be the key to putting down larger game like moose or bear.Just my thoughts.


Wade


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I can get 10 rounds or so out my my Winchester Model 88 (308) before I have to put it down... That gun kicks worse than a lot of 30-06's I've shot... It's almost on par with my 700 in 7mm win mag as far as recoil... I can shoot a M1A all day long.. the gun does make a big difference, but for a 12 year old, why put them through that punishment, even with an M1A... 

You want them to enjoy shooting, not flinch every time they start to pull the trigger.. 

There's a reason many of the kids in this area hunt with a .243... low recoil, a cheaper round, and it will easily drop a deer.. There's even a bunch that hunt with a .223 in this area....


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

simi-steading said:


> I can get 10 rounds or so out my my Winchester Model 88 (308) before I have to put it down... That gun kicks worse than a lot of 30-06's I've shot... It's almost on par with my 700 in 7mm win mag as far as recoil... I can shoot a M1A all day long.. the gun does make a big difference, but for a 12 year old, why put them through that punishment, even with an M1A...
> 
> You want them to enjoy shooting, not flinch every time they start to pull the trigger..
> 
> There's a reason many of the kids in this area hunt with a .243... low recoil, a cheaper round, and it will easily drop a deer.. There's even a bunch that hunt with a .223 in this area....



I had a model 100 (auto) in 308 and it was smooth and low recoil. I could put 100 rounds thru it before I really wanted to stop. It was built off the model 88 so the only thing I can figure is the gas release reducing the recoil. 
BTW if you know someone that want to get rid of one let me know. I really miss that rifle.

Wade


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

There are a few 88's at the local pawn shop.. I know one of them is in 308... and it ain't cheap... He's got the rare .284..you don't even wanna know what he wants for that one..


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

simi-steading said:


> There are a few 88's at the local pawn shop.. I know one of them is in 308... and it ain't cheap... He's got the rare .284..you don't even wanna know what he wants for that one..


I'm only interested in the 100 in 308 but thanks.

Wade


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh.. a 100... I've not seen one of those ....Thought you meant the 88.. My reading skills are getting worse the older I get.. Or is that comprehension? LOL...


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Nimrod said:


> Dale,
> 
> Instead of spending your money on a new gun, buy a basic reloading set up.
> 
> ...


Thing is though, I need more rifles anyway. I will soon have five of us hunting at once, so I better start thinking about that side of things! I agree totally with a reloader. It is on my wish list. HIGH on my NEED list!

I have a shotgun reloader already, so reloading is already familiar too me, at least the basic premise.

Thanks all for your input...


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

One other round to consider.. I've been looking REAL hard for a Zistava M85.. I"m going to see if I can get a dealer to find and order me one.. May be a pipe dream though.. 7.26x39 on a Mauser action.. They are supposed to be really nice guns, and the ammo is dirt cheap.. That would be an excellent round for a kid hunting..

If I can't find an M85 I'm going to look into a CZ-527... Kinda stupidly expensive though.. .


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

simi-steading said:


> One other round to consider.. I've been looking REAL hard for a Zistava M85.. I"m going to see if I can get a dealer to find and order me one.. May be a pipe dream though.. 7.26x39 on a Mauser action.. They are supposed to be really nice guns, and the ammo is dirt cheap.. That would be an excellent round for a kid hunting..
> 
> If I can't find an M85 I'm going to look into a CZ-527... Kinda stupidly expensive though.. .


A 7.62 x 39 is pretty anemic for hunting bigger deer, moose and elk though. Muzzle energy is borderline for deer, IMO. I already have a 30 30, which has a bit more energy even than a '39. 

They are fun to shoot, though, a friend has one and he can really rattle them off!


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

7.62x39 is a pretty popular bush round in the out back of Australia. Used for hunting hogs and such.. It will easily drop a whitetail at 150 yards with a 154g soft point.. You could probably push that to 200 yards with little worry.. 

True, I wouldn't think of using it for a moose, but if you are thinking a gun for a kid, 7-08 is about the least I'd consider, and if I was going to use that, I'd just go ahead with the longer 7x57.. but then you're still into decent recoil for a kid if they are hunting moose which ever 7mm you use.. 

Then again, not all 12 year olds are equal... Some how I missed the part of hunting bear and moose... Seems if you are going to have a kid shooting at those, they need to be pretty tough to handle the recoil of a proper round for that kind of hunting.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

simi-steading said:


> 7.62x39 is a pretty popular bush round in the out back of Australia. Used for hunting hogs and such.. It will easily drop a whitetail at 150 yards with a 154g soft point.. You could probably push that to 200 yards with little worry..
> 
> True, I wouldn't think of using it for a moose, but if you are thinking a gun for a kid, 7-08 is about the least I'd consider, and if I was going to use that, I'd just go ahead with the longer 7x57.. but then you're still into decent recoil for a kid if they are hunting moose which ever 7mm you use..
> 
> Then again, not all 12 year olds are equal...


Yeah, if my boy doesn't start growing soon, I will have to outfit him with a 22 magnum! He is a light little thing so far. Couple years though can change things.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Somehow Dale,I think that boy is going to outperform your expectations.It's not the size of the man in the fight,it's the size of the fight in the man!


Wade


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

HA. Wade, I was a tall lean machine until I turned 20. He has time.... lol


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

if you already have a 308 I would think standardize on 308 and load them down around 2400fps for the kids in a 150gr or a little faster like 2600 fps in a 130gr bullet 

it can be amazing how 200 fps off a load reduces recoil , with little effect on down range performance inside 200 yards 

308 brass is easy to find , bullets are easy to find factory ammo is easy to find , and 308 rifles are easy to find this will hopefully keep your cost down on multiple guns . ammo , dies , brass , bullets 

whichever you choose the last thing I think you want is to have each kid with a different round

7mm-08 is a fine round and available in many youth guns , recoil is different for everyone , but 7mm-08 is typically considered what a youth hunter can handle 

but the more i look at 7mm-08 the more i like it in comparison to 308 with 150gr factory load the 7mm-08 leaves the barrel with 200 less foot pounds of energy but only 10gr difference in weight and by 200 it is carrying more energy than the 308 , so it is very efficient many times it takes 300or more yards for the ballistic difference to take effect 

it would be very good if you could find some one with a 7mm-08 and buy a box of shells and try theirs and see if it does have a reasonable amount of recoil for your needs then standardize on the 7mm-08


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

I went through the same decision this year for my 11 year old and almost bought a 7-08, it really is a great round. I did end up getting a REM MOD 7 in .260 Rem and topped it off with a Luepold 2.5-8X V3 Scope. It makes a light little package that he can handle pretty well. 

Wen't with the .260 due to the available bullet weights. Right now I reload a 100 grain ballistic Tip that about mimics a .243, when he's older I'll switch to either 120s-140s. The only issue I've seen with the caliber is factory ammo and brass are hard to come by locally. Both really non-issues for me due to reloading, and I'm about to anneal then convert 250 pieces of .243 into .260 brass this weekend. 





Chuck


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

As much as I like the 7mm-08 I'm going with the .308 on this one.

Remingtons Managed Recoil rounds are wonderful deer medicine, Hornady Light Magnums take the .308 to a very high level and there's a whole lot of options in between to use till you get that reloader up and running.


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I'm a big fan of the 308 and with proper shot placement it'll take anything down in north america. That being said,I've been waiting for someone to bring up the 300 WSM. I have heard for quite a while how it can handle the big game and can be stepped down etc. Have I been getting bad info or is it just too much old school?

Wade


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

1shotwade said:


> I'm a big fan of the 308 and with proper shot placement it'll take anything down in north america. That being said,I've been waiting for someone to bring up the 300 WSM. I have heard for quite a while how it can handle the big game and can be stepped down etc. Have I been getting bad info or is it just too much old school?
> 
> Wade


A friend of mine has a 300WSM in a Nosler rifle, very accurate and neat little cartridge. We Chronographed his loads a couple weeks ago in prep for our western KS deer hunt and with 180's it came in about 175 FPS slower than my .300 WIN. I have no doubt it can be stepped down to equal a lite .308. But, then you'd have some additional costs with either brass or factory ammo.

Chuck


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Hey Dale,just ran across this and thought you might want to take a look!
Enjoy!


Wade


www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMPn33ykjg


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

1shotwade said:


> Hey Dale,just ran across this and thought you might want to take a look!
> Enjoy!
> 
> 
> ...



watched the video , 2 things he calls the sub sonic rounds then shows you that they clearly chronograph at 1269 fps , that is definitely super sonic 

the other thing his charging method made me cringe , he is using probably about 7gr of unique in a case that would hold much more than that , not sure he would even see a double charged case 

even with one single stage press it is easy to charge the already flared case and seat the bullet before charging the next case and cut your risk by a lot 

I do a bunch of light rounds , Lee alox is your friend cheap easy and fast and just fine for decent fitting bullets at 12-1300 fps 

these are great for trigger time 

when shooting cast you want to clean the copper out of your barrel , then shoot your cast then a plain old hoppies cleaning with a brass brush and patches and your ready to shoot your jacketed loads again 

look up ed harris loads he liked 13gr red dot in most 30/31 cal service rifle calibers , similar results have been found with 10gr unique , these are for cast only , also you can shoot heavier bullets just fine my 30-30 load uses the 170gr lee c309-170rf or you can go even lighter I run some 90gr swc 314-90swc sized .311 in my 30-30 and 30-06

there are some tricks to making mouse fart loads work well in rimless cartridges but medium loads with normal weight boolits and powders like unique don't need these tricks.

16gr 2400 is another common service rifle cast boolit load used for targets out to 200 yards


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that was watching him charge them and thought "What a fool..." Especially since he was talking and filming at the same time and probably not paying as close of attention as he should have been..


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

these are 30-30 but you can get the idea the top is a factory 170gr load 

then a cast 170gr , I run most of these with a charge of a medium pistol powder and while I don't have a chronograph I expect they are right about 12-1300 fps 

then the 90gr swc these I run with a tiny charge of very fast pistol powder 

the 170gr cast load is a blast to ring a 6 inch steel plate with consistently at 100 yards almost no recoil mild report


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## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> watched the video , 2 things he calls the sub sonic rounds then shows you that they clearly chronograph at 1269 fps , that is definitely super sonic
> 
> the other thing his charging method made me cringe , he is using probably about 7gr of unique in a case that would hold much more than that , not sure he would even see a double charged case
> 
> ...



Yea,I noticed the velocity thing too Pete but just figured he misspoke. If I remember right going super is right at 1110 fps so that's way over.
I just wanted to pass it on to Dale not knowing how much reloading or lite loading experience he has. I guess because I totally agree with the post that said staying with the same cal. makes more sense than adding out cal's



Wade


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

Nimrod said:


> Dale,
> 
> Instead of spending your money on a new gun, buy a basic reloading set up.
> 
> ...


 There's no way I could like this post more! I was involved in reloading long before I had offspring. But no way could I have let them shoot as much, or let them be totally involved without reloading.

No way could we have been so involved with shooting sports and hunting without reloading on our limited budget. And we could have done it for far less, had I known more/ or had access to cast bullets.

Any part of the sport is truly great, but the more involved you become with the facets, the more you realize the possibilities and enjoyment it holds for all!


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Again, the trouble is we have too many people to hunt in the near future, and not enough guns!  Also, reloading a .308 lighter, will not be satisfactory for moose and elk, which weigh 800 to 1400 lbs around here. I get the point, but I need more guns at any rate, and I need a rifle that will kill elk and moose at reasonable ranges. 

I def. want a rifle reloader in the future. Oh, Santa!!! lol

Thanks for the input, all.

I am kind of a gun nut. I do not mind having many guns of different calibers...


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Dale,

You can take down a moose with a 22 if you hit it in the right place. I would never try to do that and I don't suggest a kid use a light load on a moose either. I want a bullet/velocity that will kill it even if I'm off on the aim a bit. A kid may not be able to handle the recoil from the heavy load necessary for that. They also won't do much practice shooting with that load. Maybe a kid shouldn't hunt moose until he is big enough to handle the recoil. 

I try to adhere to the KISS principal. All my rifles are 30-06, pistols 357, and shotguns 12 ga. There is no chance of mixing up the ammo and I don't have to stock as many kinds of ammo and components. Kind of like the old west where the pistol and rifle took the same ammo.

Semi-auto rifles supposedly have less recoil than rifles with other actions. The exception I have found is that my 30-06 Browning A-bolt with the BOSS has less recoil than my 30-06 Remington 7400. When the BOSS redirects the gasses backwards it reduces the recoil that much. 

Thanks for getting your kids involved in hunting and shooting. They will understand that the anti gun nuts mantra that all guns are evil is nonsense. We need more kids participating in shooting.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

it sounds like your well settled on 7mm-08 it is a fine round i think it will do you well , you can run reduced velocity 7mm-08 also 

a 6.5x55 uses a 140gr bullet leaving the barrel at 2550 fps and is well known for it's ability to bring down large game , a factory 7mm-08 leaves the barrel at 2800fps so you don't need to drop it a lot to make it easier to shoot but keep decent 100-200 yard stopping power 7x57 leaves the barrel at 2650fps with a 145gr bullet , no one who has been around will question 7x57 ability to take deer or moose tens of thousands have likely fallen

303 brit while a bit heavier only leaves the barrel at 2400fps and it has likely taken more game in Canada that any other cartridge 

my point is you don't need to run max speed unless your looking for max range


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Nimrod said:


> Dale,
> 
> You can take down a moose with a 22 if you hit it in the right place. I would never try to do that and I don't suggest a kid use a light load on a moose either. I want a bullet/velocity that will kill it even if I'm off on the aim a bit. A kid may not be able to handle the recoil from the heavy load necessary for that. They also won't do much practice shooting with that load. Maybe a kid shouldn't hunt moose until he is big enough to handle the recoil.
> 
> ...


Yeah I hear you on loads for moose. I would rather a full load of 7mm 08 than a tamed down 308, IMO. The kids will NOT be allowed to shoot over say 200 yards max, often more like 100, just to be respectful of the game, and to ensure as good a hit as possible. I do have a 303, a 30-30, a 7mm rem mag, a 308 win. All can and have shot moose and elk. Actually at the range of sub 100 yards, a 30-30 is a reasonable moose round, believe it or not. But it would not be my first choice and leaves little margin for error!

I am a bit of a 308 parent case nut. I NEED to get me a nice 358 in a savage 99. That is my goal. A 358 is an amazingly powerful cartridge in a small package. The efficiency of the 308 case shines whatever you do with it almost. It would be tough to beat a short action 358 with a 220 grain bullet on moose or elk at 200 yards. 

I digress, though. A 358 would knock the shoulder off my kids....


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I also am a fan or the parent 308 case rounds, 22 cheetah, 243, 260, 7mm08. I own two 243, two 7mm08's and a 308. As I said earlier I like the mild recoil of the 7mm08 and it will do any thing you want to do. Once you start reloading you can even do light weight bullets for coyotes and not damage the hides to awful bad easy to sew.
Only problem I have with the 260 is the cost of store bought ammo is crazy expansive.


 Al


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I would like to build a 358 win on a bolt action as a re-barrel it is on my list of to do's , I know of a smith who built a 358 win M1A that looked very nice


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## Chuck R. (Apr 24, 2008)

alleyyooper said:


> I also am a fan or the parent 308 case rounds, 22 cheetah, 243, 260, 7mm08. I own two 243, two 7mm08's and a 308. As I said earlier I like the mild recoil of the 7mm08 and it will do any thing you want to do. Once you start reloading you can even do light weight bullets for coyotes and not damage the hides to awful bad easy to sew.
> Only problem I have with the 260 is the cost of store bought ammo is crazy expansive.
> 
> 
> Al


Agreed on the cost of .260, luckily I was just given about 300 .243 cases. Finished forming 100 .260 on Monday. Simply cleaned them up, annealed and ran into the .260 FL die. The one feature I really like about the .260 is how light it can go for bullets; 85-160 grain is a pretty good spread for versatility. 

farmerDale,

I wish you luck with your .358 quest. I searched for one for a couple years when I was stationed in WA. I figured it would make the ideal woods elk rifle. Unfortunately a bunch of other folks thought the same thing as they were pretty scarce and when I could find one, it was going for a premium. I was looking for either the savage 99 or Win 88 at the time. Finally went the REM MOD 7 in .350 route. It can be loaded down to .358 or throttled up to .35 Whelen in a 20" barrel. I load 225 Partitions, tried the 250s at 2500 FPS, but in a 6.5lb rifle it surpassed my pain threshold pretty quickly. 

Chuck


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