# US soldiers told to ignore Afghan ally's abuse of boys



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

This is what we have become. Our troops hear the screams of boys being sexually abused by our Muslim allies and are told to ignore it. How does a sane human ignore something like that? This scum we call allies should be shot dead on the spot. I wonder how much enduring stuff like this leads to PTSD among our troops.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/w...-ignore-afghan-allies-abuse-of-boys.html?_r=0


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

OMG, this is horrible.

This is the NYT, not some "Right Wing source" that detractors on this board dismiss as "rubbbish"!

No wonder so many of our guys are so "screwed up" in the head when they finally get back home and they have PTS!


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

gapeach said:


> OMG, this is horrible.
> 
> This is the NYT, not some "Right Wing source" that detractors on this board dismiss as "rubbbish"!


Horrible as it is, I don't expect many of the Muslim apologists to comment on it. The few that do will likely say we have no business meddling in their customs.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

gapeach said:


> OMG, this is horrible.
> 
> This is the NYT, not some "Right Wing source" that detractors on this board dismiss as "rubbbish"!
> 
> No wonder so many of our guys are so "screwed up" in the head when they finally get back home and they have PTS!


Hey, we posted the same thing at the same time. More proof great minds think alike.:thumb:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> This is the* NYT*, not some "Right Wing source" that detractors on this board dismiss as "rubbbish"!


They aren't known for their credibility, and this story seems to be about a lot of allegations about events a long time ago by some who are no longer alive.

I'd want to see it from some more sources before I'd believe it all


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

poppy said:


> Horrible as it is, I don't expect many of the Muslim apologists to comment on it. The few that do will likely say we have no business meddling in their customs.


These must be the moderate Muslims everyone likes so well . If we are going to fight them we should adopt their rules of war . Convert or die :thumb:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They aren't known for their credibility, and this story seems to be about a lot of allegations about events a long time ago by some who are no longer alive.
> 
> I'd want to see it from some more sources before I'd believe it all


I don't really know what you believe is crediblie, BFF but most liberals live and die by the NYT and dismiss many other sources as "rubbish" like some here at HT.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

What does this say about our own country that our leaders are so willing to turn a blind eye? Oh ya, Obama just appointed a gay guy to run the army, I forgot.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They aren't known for their credibility, and this story seems to be about a lot of allegations about events a long time ago by some who are no longer alive.
> 
> I'd want to see it from some more sources before I'd believe it all


This from a guy who argued vociferously a grown man who followed an 8 years old girl into a clearly marked woman's restroom probably just made a mistake.

Am I seeing a pattern here?


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

This is one of those examples of "just following orders" that should never, ever happen. I don't care what the consequences of ignoring those orders would be. Nothing, at all, in the world justifies this.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Woolieface said:


> This is one of those examples of "just following orders" that should never, ever happen. I don't care what the consequences of ignoring those orders would be. Nothing, at all, in the world justifies this.



While I agree no child should be molested, it wouldn't be the first time that women and children have been used as shields or as a method to ambush soldiers.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Remember... These are the good guys.... Don't even want to think about what the bad guys are up to. I've heard it said that war is hell.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Sort seems that the uniform is to be dishonored... from the top.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Well, now our soldiers can't take a shot till fired at or dead.
..or the miss out on a medal


And they are to overlook war crimes in action and not stop them

Crazy.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I have yet to hear about a war that didn't get a bit crazy in the trenches.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Some days I wish I could believe in hell.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wiscto said:


> Some days I wish I could believe in hell.


I can put you in touch with my first wife if you'd like, a little first hand experience should make a believer of you.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gapeach said:


> I don't really know what you believe is crediblie, BFF but *most liberals live and die by the NYT* and dismiss many other sources as "rubbish" like some here at HT.


I couldn't care less what "liberals" supposedly do.

I just know the NYT has a long history of fabricating stories, and I've heard some other versions of this one before.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ozarks Tom said:


> This from a guy who argued vociferously a grown man who followed an 8 years old girl into a clearly marked woman's restroom probably just made a mistake.
> 
> Am I seeing a pattern here?


I still think there's *no evidence* it was anything other than a mistake.

You can *imagine* any "patterns" your heart desires.
It makes no difference to me, and it has nothing to do with the credibility of the NYT

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/04/u-s-government-new-york-times-admit-lied-ukraine-russia.html


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

In 2010 and 2011 I work with an Army Vet who did his time kicking in doors in Afgan.....

What this article claims is true.

It is also common for them to 'divorce' their wife, rape a little girl, force her to marry, then divorce her, and re marry the wife.......to justify they sex outside of marriage.

I guess I don't understand how people can think that their 'god' / God let's that go?
Like: "Oh I see that you were not 'technically' married, so IT'S OK".
God / gods are not the IRS. There are no loop holes. 
Either you follow the ways / Commands of your God / god, or you don't.......
It's not the IRS. You can't operate in the loop holes and still get a free pass......

Humans are disgusting.

I thought homosexuality was a huge No No in the koran?


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

I'm very skeptical of "reports" coming out of military sources during war time. The people that the US government is at war with are always molesting boys, or pulling babies out of incubators ( that story was run by the NY times too and it was a proven lie ). There are whole departments within the US government dedicated to creating an image in the public's mind of whatever they feel is advantageous to their agenda.

The main thing to always keep in mind is that these are people, just like YOU, no better and no worse. It is wise to dismiss propaganda and anecdotal stories.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They aren't known for their credibility, and this story seems to be about a lot of allegations about events a long time ago by some who are no longer alive.
> 
> I'd want to see it from some more sources before I'd believe it all


That's what people who are credible do. 

I'm not saying it's not true, I'm saying there isn't enough information for me to believe it at this point.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

wr said:


> While I agree no child should be molested, it wouldn't be the first time that women and children have been used as shields or as a method to ambush soldiers.


You are so right. The rad Islamists do it all the time. Its only one of the reasons why Israel has a tough time defending itself.
This "news" is not new...I've heard it b/4, just not sure it was Afghanistan...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Tricky Grama said:


> You are so right. The rad Islamists do it all the time. Its only one of the reasons why Israel has a tough time defending itself.
> 
> This "news" is not new...I've heard it b/4, jut not sure it was Afghanistan...



I know similar went on in Vietnam and it likely goes back even further.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

There are many many cases of sexual abuse of young boys and girls by Muslims.

* The hypocrisy of child abuse in many Muslim countries *

Shaista Gohir Child marriage and pederasty are tolerated in Muslim societies where homosexuality is strictly condemned

Some Muslims are fond of condemning western morality &#8211; alcoholism, nudity, premarital sex and homosexuality often being cited as examples. But Muslims do not have a monopoly on morality. In the west, child marriages and sex with children are illegal. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for many Muslim countries. I recently saw the documentary on the Dancing Boys of Afghanistan exposed an ancient custom called "bacha bazi" (boy for play), where rich men buy boys as young as 11 from impoverished families for sexual slavery. The boys are dressed in women's clothes and made to dance and sing at parties, before being carted away by the men for sex. Owning boys is considered a symbol of status and one former warlord boasted of having up to 3,000 boys over a 20-year period, even though he was married, with two sons. The involvement of the police and inaction of the government means this form of child prostitution is widespread.
more...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/apr/25/middle-east-child-abuse-pederasty


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

poppy said:


> Horrible as it is, I don't expect many of the Muslim apologists to comment on it. The few that do will likely say we have no business meddling in their customs.


Or that it is not true.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Lie down with dogs and you'll end up with fleas. When you decide on regime change as a policy you often have to choose your own bad guys to prop up your new regime. Nothing new under the sun. Good guys wearing white hats and following ru&#322;es of civilized behavior seldom prevail in wars. Don't want to know what's in the sausage, don't look at the ingredients list or visit the back room at the butcher shop.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

so, it's disgusting if a dugger does it but....


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> so, it's disgusting if a dugger does it but....


It's disgusting no matter who does it. Maybe we can send some of these guys off to build houses and get "counseling" that way. Or maybe we can use the time tested standard applied here to Christians who do bad things. Saying they can't really be Christians. Maybe these aren't Muslims and shouldn't be criticized as such, but just for being bad people.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

I guess our government leadership knows there is a time and place for such behavior... One just has to sometimes blend in and do things to blend in... ..I guess maybe Obama picked up that strategy for conduct in military endeavours?... not typically a west point plan...


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Bacha Bazi: The Tragedy of Afghanistanâs Dancing Boys*

An old tradition has experienced a disturbing revival in post-Taliban Afghanistan.

By Roshni Kapur
August 23, 2014
http://thediplomat.com/2014/08/bacha-bazi-the-tragedy-of-afghanistans-dancing-boys/









She's one of the first international figures to speak out against the practice of bacha bazi. She has served as United Nations' undersecretary general, special representative for Children and Armed Conflict since 2006. This is the edited transcript of an interview conducted on Sept. 18, 2009 by producer Jamie Doran.

Mrs. Coomaraswamy, you have just seen segments of our film. 
âWhere states fail and don't provide services due to corruption or incompetence â¦ there is nothing, nobody to protect these children.
I was really quite horrified by the -- at first I had heard about this practice. But I think the fact that these kids were killed, there's another order of things. It's not only sexual violence and sexual slavery; it's also murder. So that shocked me.
What I think is very interesting for me is the casualness from which all of this was done. It's an accepted practice. And of course, you hear about all these things theoretically, but when you see the faces of the actual kids, it's really awful, heartbreaking.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/etc/coomaraswamy.html

How horrible!:facepalm:


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

wr said:


> While I agree no child should be molested, it wouldn't be the first time that women and children have been used as shields or as a method to ambush soldiers.


These are supposedly "allies". This seems pretty far from a scenario where a child is being used a shield. They're just straight up being abused while the "good guys" sit by.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The Koran was skewed to empower men to do whatever they wanted taking into account the allegiance and respect to Allah. It was the ultimate get out of jail free card as long as they adhered the its "religious" dictates.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

kasilofhome said:


> I guess our government leadership knows there is a time and place for such behavior... One just has to sometimes blend in and do things to blend in... ..I guess maybe Obama picked up that strategy for conduct in military endeavours?... not typically a west point plan...


Or maybe he learned from Reagan. Child mo&#322;estation-genocide. Is there really much difference?

http://www.alternet.org/noam-chomsky-nuclear


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Oldshep said:


> I'm very skeptical of "reports" coming out of military sources during war time. The people that the US government is at war with are always molesting boys, or pulling babies out of incubators ( that story was run by the NY times too and it was a proven lie ). There are whole departments within the US government dedicated to creating an image in the public's mind of whatever they feel is advantageous to their agenda.
> 
> The main thing to always keep in mind is that these are people, just like YOU, no better and no worse. It is wise to dismiss propaganda and anecdotal stories.


I can't see where there's any benefit to the government in putting out a story about our supposed allies raping children. It would seem to me they'd want stories about how we've changed their traditional pederasty in favor of civilized behavior. 

I'm certainly not a fan of the NYT, and yes, they put unsubstantiated and half truth stories out from time to time, but I don't see any upside for them to fabricate this.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

mmoetc said:


> Or maybe he learned from Reagan. Child mo&#322;estation-genocide. Is there really much difference?
> 
> http://www.alternet.org/noam-chomsky-nuclear


Naw, he got it from Lincoln.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I would not be able to watch what the woman from the UN watched but then it was her job to watch it. 

I would not hide my head in the sand and say it did not happen just because it does not fit the picture of good Muslims. These people who do this to those young boys might not be ISIS or AlQaeda but they are horrible people, just the same.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

> I'm very skeptical of "reports" coming out of military sources during war time


Indeed.

A couple of weeks ago my husband was reading a book about the first Gulf War. 

He got to a passage that made his jaw drop. An incident was described that involved four people, none of them were named, but it was very specific and my husband was one of those only four people involved in the incident. 

He has no idea which of the other three must have told the author about it, but he has his suspicions based on the way the story was changed just enough to downplay the mistake the sergeant made that could have got them all killed that day and that my husband corrected.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

If you notice, there's a lot of white males in America that like young boys, some in robes.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Naw, he got it from Lincoln.


It goes back much further than that. But that was my point, allying with bad people in time of "war" is nothing new and knows no poltical boundaries.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

oneraddad said:


> If you notice, there's a lot of white males in America that like young boys, some in robes.


But we know for certain they can't be real Christians.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Are Time.com and NY Times one and the same?

U.S. Military *U.S. Troops Told to Ignore Sexual Abuse of Boys by Afghan Forces, Report Says*



 Mark Rivett-Carnac @mrivettcarnac
 Sept. 20, 2015 


*The practice is common in Afghanistan*

U.S. soldiers were instructed to ignore the sexual abuse of boys by Afghan allies, even when it occurred on military bases, according to a report in the New York _Time_s. The policy of looking the other way was designed to maintain good standing with the U.S.-trained Afghan police and militia in a country where the practice of _bacha bazi_ (boy play) is widespread. In some cases, the U.S. ended up arming suspected pedophiles.
But the policy has recently come under scrutiny, the _Times_ reports, because ignoring sexual abuse not only troubled U.S. soldiers, it also alienated the parents of boys who were victims.
http://time.com/4042104/us-military-afghanistan-sexual-abuse-soldiers/





So we are just supposed to ignore this because some don't trust NYT to tell the truth? That is baloney!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

PLEASE tread lightly.
If you have not walked a mile in a Soldier's/Marines shoes, then if they say "this happened" AND it really did....good chances are they are dealing / living with a certain level of PTSD.

If you can get a person to open up about all or part of the root of their PTSD, listen.
With your mouth shut.
It is rare, and if you denounce what they are saying, they may not speak again.

Just tread lightly please.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

gapeach said:


> Are Time.com and NY Times one and the same?
> 
> U.S. Military *U.S. Troops Told to Ignore Sexual Abuse of Boys by Afghan Forces, Report Says*
> 
> ...


I'm not suggesting we ignore it. I'm saying we shouldn't be surprised by it. We want cooperation of locals to further our agenda. Sometimes that requires turning a blind eye to bad things. Sometimes there are no good guys and you just have to make the best of the your bad guys.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mmoetc said:


> It's disgusting no matter who does it.


Yes, it is. But this is about how Afghan police treat prisoners who are in custody. There should be some way to file a complaint through channels, but it doesn't sound like a military mission to me.

I can understand troops being upset about how Afghan police might treat prisoners, particularly when it comes to sexual abuse of minors, but there has to be a limit on how closely we micromanage a country under occupation. Unless you want Afghanistan to become a US territory, the Afghan's need to govern themselves.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Nevada said:


> Yes, it is. But this is about how Afghan police treat prisoners who are in custody. There should be some way to file a complaint through channels, but it doesn't sound like a military mission to me.
> 
> I can understand troops being upset about how Afghan police might treat prisoners, particularly when it comes to sexual abuse of minors, but there has to be a limit on how closely we micromanage a country under occupation. Unless you want Afghanistan to become a US territory, the Afghan's need to govern themselves.


I'm not arguing with that.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

mmoetc said:


> I'm not suggesting we ignore it. I'm saying we shouldn't be surprised by it. We want cooperation of locals to further our agenda. Sometimes that requires turning a blind eye to bad things. Sometimes there are no good guys and you just have to make the best of the your bad guys.


Well, the soldiers had no choice and I will say again that no wonder so many of them have mental problems.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mmoetc said:


> I'm not arguing with that.


Even though I quoted you my post wasn't really aimed at you. It was more of a general comment about the topic.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> If you notice, there's a lot of white males in America that like young boys, some in robes.


And many (most?) are christian, and justify what they do as well.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

According to my friend who was deployed to Kosovo as an MP, the Turkish military more or less institutionalized rape of young boys. They basically brought the equivalent of "apprentices" with them. The Greeks that were there with the peace keeping force told the Americans. My friend said the Americans just laughed because they thought the Greeks were just picking on the Turks...because they really don't like each other. When I asked what happened next, he said, "We verified it." "What does that mean? Like you reported it?" "We verified it..." "You saw it..." "_Hey..._ We know. That's all I'm gonna say. The Turks are (explicit language)."

Obviously you can take that story or leave it. I definitely won't infringe on my friend's privacy and there's no way to prove anything. I wasn't there, but I trust my friend.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

gapeach said:


> Well, the soldiers had no choice and I will say again that no wonder so many of them have mental problems.


Soldiers have never had much of a choice. They've always been subject to the decisions, good and bad, of their leaders. Concerned with their mental health? Vote for those who will fund the programs to help them. Contribute time and money to organizations that will help them. Support leaders who will learn from past mistakes and try to avoid getting us , and our brave men and women, in conflicts on foreign soils with people who pose no real immediate threat to us.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I don't know if anyone could ever completely recover from listening to the screams of children being abused.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

We're all just people... and really none of us are all that special and will some day be no more than dust.

Look out your window and go capture your day and forget about what you can not see.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

gapeach said:


> I don't know if anyone could ever completely recover from listening to the screams of children being abused.


We'll never know unless we try. I mean really try. Not just pay lip service but really try to help and not just move on to bashing others because they're on the wrong side of the political aisle.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

oneraddad said:


> If you notice, there's a lot of white males in America that like young boys, some in robes.


Are they the supposed allies of the US military in a war?
It's not about a race or a religion (at least not to me) it's about letting kids get raped as just "one of those things that happen during war". and then calling them our "friends".


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## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> We're all just people... and really none of us are all that special and will some day be no more than dust.
> 
> Look out your window and go capture your day and forget about what you can not see.



I don't want to forget about it. I want to care. I want it to stop.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Woolieface said:


> Are they the supposed allies of the US military in a war?
> It's not about a race or a religion (at least not to me) it's about letting kids get raped as just "one of those things that happen during war". and then calling them our "friends".


To me it's about kids being raped. Period.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> To me it's about kids being raped. Period.


Yeah it is. Our military should not be in a position to condone it with their silence.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Nobody is a 'friend' that does something like that. Even here in the Sates prisoners take a very very dim view on another prisoner that have done such things and may even put a hit on them so they will never do that again as they are either 'crippled' so they can't 'rape' kids again or their life is snuffed OUT permanently ~!


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

If you take the attitude that what you don't know won't hurt you, it is just avoiding the truth. Let's talk about putting people in a country together who have completely different traditions and beliefs about how they treat women and children. At least our country as a whole does not believe in child abuse or demeaning, being cruel to women or treat either as a lower commodity.

How do you live side by side with people who do believe that way?


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## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Remember... These are the good guys.... Don't even want to think about what the bad guys are up to. I've heard it said that war is hell.


Under the Taliban bad guys, this kind of pedophilia was a capital offense. I'm not sure it was worth removing the theocrats.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

This is exactly why diversity fails. Third world cultures from Mexico, South America, all Islam, India, Africa, etc. will not change their cultures to match our American culture. They maintain their culture where ever they go expecting us to conform to their and affirm their sexual abuse of girls and boys, ownership of wives and slaves, & honor killings.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

gapeach said:


> This is exactly why diversity fails. Third world cultures from Mexico, South America, all Islam, India, Africa, etc. will not change their cultures to match our American culture. They maintain their culture where ever they go expecting us to conform to their and affirm their sexual abuse of girls and boys, ownership of wives and slaves, & honor killings.


The melting pot that is America, you remember- the country that took in immigrants from all over the world, currently is known for sexual abuse of boys and girls, ownership of wives and slaves, and honor killings.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

No, it is not. That is against the law in this country.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Can this fall under "human rights" w/ the United Nations?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Can this fall under "human rights" w/ the United Nations?


*She's one of the first international figures to speak out against the practice of bacha bazi. She has served as United Nations' undersecretary general, special representative for Children and Armed Conflict since 2006. This is the edited transcript of an interview conducted on Sept. 18, 2009 by producer Jamie Doran.*

Mrs. Coomaraswamy, you have just seen segments of our film. 
&#8220;Where states fail and don't provide services due to corruption or incompetence &#8230; there is nothing, nobody to protect these children.
I was really quite horrified by the -- at first I had heard about this practice. But I think the fact that these kids were killed, there's another order of things. It's not only sexual violence and sexual slavery; it's also murder. So that shocked me.
What I think is very interesting for me is the casualness from which all of this was done. It's an accepted practice. And of course, you hear about all these things theoretically, but when you see the faces of the actual kids, it's really awful, heartbreaking.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/


Laura, this lady is from the U.N. It seems like through her connections that she could have done something for those children.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

That story is a nauseating crock of BS, nothing more than a revolting attempt at a smear job of all allies made up by some ignorant person with a perverted cess pit for a mind. 

It says that allies were told to ignore the Afghan Policemen's sexual abuse of children but whoever wrote it obviously knows nothing about what was happening there and is forgetting that there were military people from 59 countries that were coalition allies involved over there. Americans were not the only allies there despite the fact that many Americans would prefer to believe that American soldiers were the only allies there. 

Nobody is going to persuade me that all of the allied military people representing 59 other civilized nations, let alone Americans, would all turn a blind eye to the abuse of children and allow it to happen. The allies were there to train those policemen in warfare in addition to their many other involvements there (building hospitals, and schools for children included amongst other things) and there is no way they would have ignored pederasts bringing children into their training camps and towns that they were all occupying together with the policemen they were training. 

There is something wrong with the intelligence of people who want to blindly believe these kinds of ugly stories without questioning it and without taking into consideration who ALL of the allies are. Do the people who want to believe these kinds of revolting trash stories about their own soldiers turning a blind eye even have any idea how many other allied troops were there and what countries they all represented?

I saw this same topic posted on City Data last night and I am shocked and disgusted at the responses from people both there and here on HT who are blindly willing to believe this kind of hatemongering crap about their own countrymen without questioning the facts or the credibilty of it. They all should be ashamed and disgusted with their own selves.

Disgusted! :flame:


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

WASHINGTON (Reuters) &#8211; The Pentagon denied on Monday that the U.S. military has a policy directing forces to ignore the sexual abuse of minors by Afghan officials, after a newspaper reported that troops were told to look the other way in order to maintain good ties with Afghan allies.
The New York Times reported on Sunday that U.S. service members stationed in Afghanistan had been instructed by superiors not to intervene when they witnessed Afghan police officers and military commanders abusing minors, even when the abuse occurred on military bases.
Afghanistan&#8217;s government has tried to crack down on the practice of &#8220;bacha bazi&#8221; &#8211; literally, &#8220;boy play&#8221; &#8211; which has a long history in northern Afghanistan. Teenage boys dress up as girls and dance for male patrons, and some are turned into sex slaves by wealthy and powerful men, often former warlords.
Some U.S. service members who had intervened when they witnessed or heard of abuse were punished for doing so, the New York Times reported.(http://nyti.ms/1Fo2b8u)
&#8220;I can tell you we&#8217;ve never had a policy in place that directs any military member or any government personnel overseas to ignore human rights abuses,&#8221; said Captain Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman. &#8220;The practices described in that article, we find absolutely abhorrent.&#8221;
&#8220;There&#8217;s nothing that would preclude any military member from making reports about human rights violations to their chain of command,&#8221; he added.
*The U.S. State Department, in its annual Human Trafficking report, published in July, pointed to the issue of bacha bazi, and said some Afghan law enforcement officials allow those who abuse minors to escape punishment in exchange for bribes.*
*&#8220;The government&#8217;s prosecution and victim protection efforts remained inadequate,&#8221; the report said.* (http://1.usa.gov/1S7q7Ti)
(Reporting by Yeganeh Torbati; Editing by Frances Kerry)
http://www.euronews.com/newswires/3...to-ignore-sex-abuse-of-minors-in-afghanistan/


Euronews provides breaking news articles from Reuters as a service to its readers, but does not edit the articles it publishes.

They don't deny that the abuse happened and still happens.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

trulytricia said:


> I don't want to forget about it. I want to care. I want it to stop.



Did your caring stop anything today or did you worry for not ?


I'm glad I don't stress over things out of my control


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Tiempo said:


> Indeed.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago my husband was reading a book about the first Gulf War.
> 
> ...


Terrible but hardly a comparison to the OP.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I think that we are going to be hearing from some of those U.S. Service members who were stationed there. Especially some who are not in the Service anymore.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ozarks Tom said:


> I can't see where there's any benefit to the government in putting out a story about our supposed allies raping children. It would seem to me they'd want stories about how we've changed their traditional pederasty in favor of civilized behavior.
> 
> I'm certainly not a fan of the NYT, and yes, they put unsubstantiated and half truth stories out from time to time, but *I don't see any upside* for them to fabricate this.


The "upside" is all the hits on their website, which generate revenue from advertisers. 

It makes no difference if the stories are true as long as enough people click on the links

There would also be a "benefit" to the anti-Govt crowd who are jumping all over it as if it's Gospel. 

It helps push their agenda by riling up the easily lead who will jump to any conclusion if it makes the Govt look bad

If you want to rant about pedophiles there are enough Catholic priests to handle the load. 

Locally a Baptist preacher got caught videotaping little girls in the church bathroom

But a good anti-Muslim anti-Govt rant is so much more fulfilling, even if the source is a known liar


----------



## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> Did your caring stop anything today or did you worry for not ?
> 
> 
> I'm glad I don't stress over things out of my control




But I'm not stressing. And I'm not worried about it. I'm not the person being hurt here. 

If these stories upset you then by all means don't read about them. Why are you reading about them? Do you care? Of coarse you do.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

gapeach said:


> If you take the attitude that what you don't know won't hurt you, it is just avoiding the truth. Let's talk about putting people in a country together who have completely different traditions and beliefs about how they treat women and children. At least our country as a whole does not believe in child abuse or demeaning, being cruel to women or treat either as a lower commodity.
> 
> How do you live side by side with people who do believe that way?


Remember, we started the war in Afghanistan, for _our_ benefit, not theirs.

I guess that if we do not like, that they are and live like _savages_, we could leave, but we know how that turns out, unfortunately.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The "upside" is all the hits on their website, which generate revenue from advertisers.
> 
> It makes no difference if the stories are true as long as enough people click on the links
> 
> ...


Do you not believe that this type of abuse is real?

I simply clicked on the link in the linked story.



> Itâs an ancient practice, secretly revived--young boys sold by families to âentertainâ wealthy merchants and warlords. An undercover investigation into this illicit sex trade...


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Fennick said:


> That story is a nauseating crock of BS, nothing more than a revolting attempt at a smear job of all allies made up by some ignorant person with a perverted cess pit for a mind.
> 
> It says that allies were told to ignore the Afghan Policemen's sexual abuse of children but whoever wrote it obviously knows nothing about what was happening there and is forgetting that there were military people from 59 countries that were coalition allies involved over there. Americans were not the only allies there despite the fact that many Americans would prefer to believe that American soldiers were the only allies there.
> 
> ...


It's _their_ country, unfortunately for their children.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

plowjockey said:


> Do you not believe that this type of abuse is real?
> 
> I simply clicked on the link in the linked story.
> 
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/


Of course it is real. We think it is atrocious because we don't do this in our country. We have not been raised to think that kind of abuse is ok plus we are civilized with laws against it.

They have been mistreating women and children for thousands of years. They probably would not have let our soldiers stay there if they had tried to stop them. We were in their country. Now if they to come over here and tell an American man neighbor that he was not beating his wife enough, we would not like that at all.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I don't know who is talking about their own countrymen, Fennick.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The "upside" is all the hits on their website, which generate revenue from advertisers.
> 
> It makes no difference if the stories are true as long as enough people click on the links
> 
> ...


If a person does not like the present administration, it does not mean that he is anti the whole US Govt. I like Muslims in a Muslim country.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

plowjockey said:


> Do you not believe that this type of abuse is real?
> 
> I simply clicked on the link in the linked story.
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/


"Abuse" takes many forms and happens all over the world.
It's done by all religions and people of all ages. 

What I SAID clearly is that I don't believe the accuracy of the NYT report.
It's not logical to think the US would issue such orders, and if you search some of the names in the report, the only hits come back to the same story when there should have been earlier reports if it were all true.

If so many are concerned with abuse in the Middle East, get off your computer and go do something about it. 

I'm not going to agonize over every injustice in the world.

I'm just going to concentrate on my little part in which I have some actual control. Others should give it a try.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gapeach said:


> If a person does not like the present administration, it does not mean that he is anti the whole US Govt. I like Muslims in a Muslim country.


You could have fooled me, based on what I see.


----------



## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

*The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing*


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I'm not going to agonize over every injustice in the world.
> 
> I'm just going to concentrate on my little part in which I have some actual control. *Others should give it a try.*


Frankly, I'm concerned that *our* *servicemen*, could get in trouble - or worse, for intervening in their sick atrocities.

When our Military puts out orders, that *our servicemen* cannot drink alcohol - at all and the females must wear Muslims scarfs, due to local customs, I personally don't find it too hard to believe that a *"hands off"* orders could be given in these situations, since our Military leaders know - full well, how Americans view sexual abuse of children and that the results, of their intervention, will not turn out well, for anyone.

I don't know, so maybe someone who was actually there, could weigh in.

Agonizing is one thing - showing a little compassion, is another.


----------



## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> *The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing*


What would you like them to do?

Our Soldiers are literally stuck between a rock and a hard place.


----------



## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The situation that our Military found themselves in is really terrible. Seeing and hearing what was going on is against what they have been taught their whole lives. From the interview of the woman from the UN, in some cases the boys were murdered.


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Remember when we were the good guys?
We stood up for the weak and helpless.
Then came Obama
Now we are evil as he is


----------



## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

We were in Afghanistan partnering with shady (at best) people before I'd ever even heard of Obama.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

kuriakos said:


> Under the Taliban bad guys, this kind of pedophilia was a capital offense. I'm not sure it was worth removing the theocrats.


So was having a bible, or for a woman to not cover her head in public.
Why cherry pick among abusers and killers?


----------



## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

What the heck does that even mean? What did I cherry pick? We're talking about child abuse, not bibles and head coverings. Try to stay on topic.

But I think those people would rather their boys not be raped than to have bibles or uncovered heads. Are they better off now? Doubtful.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

kuriakos said:


> What the heck does that even mean? What did I cherry pick? We're talking about child abuse, not bibles and head coverings. Try to stay on topic.
> 
> But I think those people would rather their boys not be raped than to have bibles or uncovered heads. Are they better off now? Doubtful.


You're saying the Taliban is better while I'm pointing out they are just as bad.
It shouldn't have been that hard to understand

You were talking about "capital punishment", and so was I



> Originally Posted by kuriakos View Post
> Under the Taliban bad guys, this kind of pedophilia was *a capital offense*. I'm not sure it was worth removing the theocrats.


----------



## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

gapeach said:


> I don't know who is talking about their own countrymen, Fennick.


That's the whole point that none of you seem to be getting. Nobody is talking about all the soldiers of other countries, the focus of that article is entirely on American soldiers and their superiors and on making them look bad.

But what the article is suggesting is not possible because Americans and Afghanis weren't the only military people there on the bases that would have to have known about abuses happening and being told by superiors to ignore it. There were Americans, Australians, British, Canadians, Dutch, Germans, French, Italians, New Zealanders, Belgians, etc., etc. - there were dozens of allied countries had their military personnel all coming and going together on the same bases and in many of the same towns. They were all sharing the same showers, eating breakfast together in the same mess tents, bunking up in the same places, working on the same missions and projects together. 

All working together in the same places where allegedly children were being abused right under their noses by the very same Afghani policemen that they were training and who were living on the same bases. Then that means that ALL of those personnel from ALL of those allied countries would have known about it, all talked about it, and ALL of them would have to have been told by their own respective superiors to turn a blind eye and ignore it.

Do you really believe that happened? Because it makes no sense.

What would be the point of only American superiors telling only American soldiers to ignore it when all those other personnel from other countries were there too and were not being told to ignore it? If it was really happening on the bases then why hasn't there been news about it coming from other soldiers from all those other countries?

And if it was really happening on the bases where all those military personnel from all those countries were together do you all really believe that all of them would have been told to turn a blind eye on base to one of the very corruptions they were there to fight against? Do you really believe that all those personnel from so many countries would keep quiet about it, cover it up and nobody do anything about it or say anything about it?

If it was really happening it would have been news all over the world years ago. The whole story is all hogwash. It's one of the most disgraceful lies I've ever heard told about all soldiers of the coalition forces to make them all look bad. 

People who want to believe that such an unconscionable thing was being covered up by all the supposedly non-conscientious military personnel of 59 countries are nothing more than ghouls who are titillated at the idea of children being raped while good, honest moral soldiers stand by and listen and let it happen.

And The New York Times is a ghoul for publishing such a preposterous story, but I guess the NYT knows who their market target is, it is just more ghouls.


----------



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

plowjockey said:


> What would you like them to do?
> 
> Our Soldiers are literally stuck between a rock and a hard place.


How about covering the SOB's with pigs blood and blowing their brains out? Tell them that it is a cultural thing.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Cornhusker said:


> Remember when we were the good guys?
> We stood up for the weak and helpless.
> Then came Obama
> Now we are evil as he is


When were we last the "good guys"? When we invaded other countries under shaky pretenses to instill our form of government which they didn't ask for? When we supported brutal regimes across the world including those which killed women, children, priests and nuns because those regimes were the enemy of our enemy? When we ginned up the reasons to fight a war in SE Asia which cost us 200,000 killed or wounded servicemen? I have a hard time remembering in my lifetime when our hats were purely white. Maybe that overwhelming triumph in Grenada.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

gapeach said:


> Of course it is real. We think it is atrocious because we don't do this in our country. We have not been raised to think that kind of abuse is ok plus we are civilized with laws against it.
> 
> They have been mistreating women and children for thousands of years. They probably would not have let our soldiers stay there if they had tried to stop them. We were in their country. Now if they to come over here and tell an American man neighbor that he was not beating his wife enough, we would not like that at all.


Post of the day award.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

JJ Grandits said:


> How about covering the SOB's with pigs blood and blowing their brains out? Tell them that it is a cultural thing.


Post of the decade award.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

mmoetc said:


> When were we last the "good guys"? When we invaded other countries under shaky pretenses to instill our form of government which they didn't ask for? When we supported brutal regimes across the world including those which killed women, children, priests and nuns because those regimes were the enemy of our enemy? When we ginned up the reasons to fight a war in SE Asia which cost us 200,000 killed or wounded servicemen? I have a hard time remembering in my lifetime when our hats were purely white. Maybe that overwhelming triumph in Grenada.


That war in SE Asia was begun and fought under mostly Democrat Presidents.

John F. Kennedy (D) continued by Lyndon B. Johnson (D) ended by Richard M Nixon (R)


----------



## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

gapeach said:


> That war in SE Asia was begun and fought under mostly Democrat Presidents.
> 
> John F. Kennedy (D) continued by Lyndon B. Johnson (D) ended by Richard M Nixon (R)


And that makes what difference? I wasn't pointing fingers at any political party. I was pointing out that our hands haven't been clean for a long time. I can go back even farther if you'd like but my point doesn't change. No matter who leads this country if we allow, even encourage them, to put our troops in bad places they will see and sometimes do bad things. It's not a new phenomenon with blame on any political party or president. We all share the blame. I hope someday you find a cure to that jerking knee syndrome.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Fennick said:


> That's the whole point that none of you seem to be getting. Nobody is talking about all the soldiers of other countries, the focus of that article is entirely on American soldiers and their superiors and on making them look bad.
> 
> But what the article is suggesting is not possible because Americans and Afghanis weren't the only military people there on the bases that would have to have known about abuses happening and being told by superiors to ignore it. There were Americans, Australians, British, Canadians, Dutch, Germans, French, Italians, New Zealanders, Belgians, etc., etc. - there were dozens of allied countries had their military personnel all coming and going together on the same bases and in many of the same towns. They were all sharing the same showers, eating breakfast together in the same mess tents, bunking up in the same places, working on the same missions and projects together.
> 
> ...



Best post in 100 decades award


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

mmoetc said:


> And that makes what difference? I wasn't pointing fingers at any political party. I was pointing out that our hands haven't been clean for a long time. I can go back even farther if you'd like but my point doesn't change. No matter who leads this country if we allow, even encourage them, to put our troops in bad places they will see and sometimes do bad things. It's not a new phenomenon with blame on any political party or president. We all share the blame. I hope someday you find a cure to that jerking knee syndrome.


I was not jerking my knee. I was just pointed out that it was not a one sided war.

Actually it goes all the way back to Truman and Eisenhower and trying to stop Communism from spreading. That is when it all began.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Fennick said:


> That's the whole point that none of you seem to be getting. Nobody is talking about all the soldiers of other countries, the focus of that article is entirely on American soldiers and their superiors and on making them look bad.
> 
> But what the article is suggesting is not possible because Americans and Afghanis weren't the only military people there on the bases that would have to have known about abuses happening and being told by superiors to ignore it. There were Americans, Australians, British, Canadians, Dutch, Germans, French, Italians, New Zealanders, Belgians, etc., etc. - there were dozens of allied countries had their military personnel all coming and going together on the same bases and in many of the same towns. They were all sharing the same showers, eating breakfast together in the same mess tents, bunking up in the same places, working on the same missions and projects together.
> 
> ...


I AM THE FIRST one to discredit anything the media has to say. 
I believe the media does more damage, poop stirring, hornet nest kicking, and just flat out lying than we really know.
I know the media perpetuates racism, bigotry, hate, etc.....

I have to ask; Did you serve over in the middle east and you have first hand experience that this article is total garbage?

I do have a friend, who did serve, boots on the ground (door kicker) and he did see, many of the things this article talks about; and more.
His intense hate for people from the middle east prompted me to ask why and bit by bit, little by little over many months, he pieced the story of what he saw, together, and shared it w/ me.
This and other hideous things really changed how this young man sees the human race, and it's sad. It effects his every day life, every day.


----------



## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

gapeach said:


> I was not jerking my knee. I was just pointed out that it was not a one sided war.
> 
> Actually it goes all the way back to Truman and Eisenhower and trying to stop Communism from spreading. That is when it all began.


It goes back further than that. Our government has justified foreign wars in a variety of interesting ways. But your first reaction was knee jerk. You immediately went to political party blame rather than reading my post for what it was. Not all issues are automatically partisan even though some a&#322;ways find an excuse to make them so.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

mmoetc said:


> It goes back further than that. Our government has justified foreign wars in a variety of interesting ways. But your first reaction was knee jerk. You immediately went to political party blame rather than reading my post for what it was. Not all issues are automatically partisan even though some a&#322;ways find an excuse to make them so.


I did not mean it that way, just pointing out that both sides were for it. I know that you and I don't agree on a lot of things and one of them is getting involved in wars. I believe in war if we are being attacked or if we can help to win a war for our allies. I never liked the Viet Nam War from the beginning. 
In my politically divided family, the Dems always said the Reps started it and vice versa. Both were to blame and escalating it just made it worse.
Nothing personal with you. :surrender:


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

gapeach said:


> I did not mean it that way, just pointing out that both sides were for it. I know that you and I don't agree on a lot of things and one of them is getting involved in wars. I believe in war if we are being attacked or if we can help to win a war for our allies. I never liked the Viet Nam War from the beginning.
> In my politically divided family, the Dems always said the Reps started it and vice versa. Both were to blame and escalating it just made it worse.
> Nothing personal with you. :surrender:


Nothing personal taken. I can make it political. I notice you didn't bring up Reagan's support for Central American regimes that committed genocide and murdered nuns. But you'll always point to how democrats started or were involved. That's the knee jerking I refer to.

As I said earlier, if you're really concerned about the mental health of our soldiers do something besides pointing fingers and laying blame.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

mmoetc said:


> As I said earlier, if you're really concerned about the mental health of our soldiers do something besides pointing fingers and laying blame.


Amen..


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

The damage in Afghanistan has been done. The only hope here now is for some of these soldiers to go public and say what they went through and then we can only hope that they will be helped by the VA to the best that they can be.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

gapeach said:


> The damage in Afghanistan has been done. The only hope here now is for some of these soldiers to go public and say what they went through and then we can only hope that they will be helped by the VA to the best that they can be.


If that's the only hope we have they're in deeper trouble than you know. There are many other ways, big and small, everyone can help with to help them and future generations. Learning from past mistakes and electing &#322;eaders that won't put them in no win situations. Reaching out to help those in need prrsonallt or supporting organizations that do. Sometimes just listening and offering that non judgemental shoulder to lean or cry on. It was our responsibilty that got them where their at, it's our responsibility to help bring them back to where they need to be.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

mmoetc said:


> If that's the only hope we have they're in deeper trouble than you know. There are many other ways, big and small, everyone can help with to help them and future generations. Learning from past mistakes and electing &#322;eaders that won't put them in no win situations. Reaching out to help those in need prrsonallt or supporting organizations that do. Sometimes just listening and offering that non judgemental shoulder to lean or cry on. It was our responsibilty that got them where their at, it's our responsibility to help bring them back to where they need to be.


They cannot be helped if they don't talk. I don't think most of us ever had any idea that this was going on. We still need more confirmation from the victims for the American people to know about it. Look how many people are horrified, anyone who thinks that this happened is very upset. 

It is not only Afghanistan, it happened in England too.
http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/muslim-child-rape-gangs-britain#


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

gapeach said:


> *They cannot be helped if they don't talk.* I don't think most of us ever had any idea that this was going on. We still need more confirmation from the victims for the American people to know about it. Look how many people are horrified, anyone who thinks that this happened is very upset.
> 
> It is not only Afghanistan, it happened in England too.
> http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/muslim-child-rape-gangs-britain#


You need to have a deeper understanding of what PTSD does to the human brain, the human soul......
The stigma surrounding PTSD and CPTSD is so deep, MANY would rather suffer in their own personal hell than to speak, and be dismissed by another (or many other) humans.......
For many, it is a lose lose situation, and that is why you see SO MANY suicides. 
FIRST we have to STOP the stigma, and take these men and women SERIOUS and make a SERIOUS effort to help them.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

I remember my 4 uncles who came home from WW2, my mother's younger brothers. All had been wounded but all came back alive. One was never the same the rest of his life. His marriage did not last and he would never talk about the war. He never wanted to see or talk to anyone that he knew who was fighting with him. I guess he would have been diagnosed with PTSD today.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Do they only abuse boys?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

HDRider said:


> Do they only abuse boys?


This says they do abuse girls too.
* 'We heard them screaming': US troops told to ignore Afghan soldiers abusing boys &#8211; report *

Published time: 21 Sep, 2015 09:55

One more US officer, a former lance corporal recalled a terrible incident when he entered a room in a base and saw three or four men lying with children between them.
_&#8220;I&#8217;m not a hundred percent sure what was happening under the sheet, but I have a pretty good idea of what was going on,&#8221;_ he told NYT on condition of anonymity.
Another witness of similar practices was Dan Quinn, a former special forces captain. He witnessed several cases of Afghan militia abusing local children, boys and girls.
_&#8220;The reason we were here is because we heard the terrible things the Taliban were doing to people, how they were taking away human rights&#8230;But we were putting people into power who would do things that were worse than the Taliban did &#8212; that was something village elders voiced to me,&#8221;_ he said.
https://www.rt.com/news/316062-afghan-soldiers-abuse-children/


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Poppy,I read about this a way back.They actualy have videos and bid on the boys in some instances(boys danceing and acting like harem girls). It was sickening,I've watched others about sex with animals done by these "religious" people. Their sense of right and wrong is so warped no normal society should/could excuses for them.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I AM THE FIRST one to discredit anything the media has to say.
> I believe the media does more damage, poop stirring, hornet nest kicking, and just flat out lying than we really know.
> I know the media perpetuates racism, bigotry, hate, etc.....
> 
> ...


Your anecdote has nothing to do with the article or this topic.

There is only one thing about the entire article and this topic that is important and that everyone else apparently wants to overlook in favour of villifying atrocities committed by atrocious people. It's in the title of the article and the title of this thread and in the body of the article.

It is an attempt to discredit all soldiers of the coalition forces. It says that our soldiers - and by extension all the coalition soldiers from other countries who were on the same bases - were told by their superiors to ignore atrocities that were happening right on their own bases. 

The implication is that all the coalition soldiers permitted it to happen on their own bases while they listened to it and nobody said or did anything about it. The implication is that it was condoned and allowed by everybody on base.

It discredits all of those soldiers from all of those countries, thousands and thousands of them, for their inaction. It discredits each and every one of the allied countries.

The astounding thing here is that so many people believe it. And even more astounding is that *by admitting they believe it they are also all admitting they would do exactly the same thing and condone and allow it to happen if they were those soldiers in those circumstances.*

Why would you let it happen? Would you allow the same thing to happen in your own home?

What would you gain for allowing it? 

What would you lose for stopping it?


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

I only read the first page and a half of comments here. I read the article last night. I have no doubt it is true. I think a few things need to be kept in mind here: first it was a rarity. Second telling soldiers to turn a blind eye to it was wrong. Third they make the excuse of having to take who you can in wartime and you have to ignore their deficiencies. It's wrong. If you get someone like that without knowing how evil they are you run them out on a rail. Or you just conveniently make them disappear. But you don't condone it and reward them with a favorable relationship. 

As for Islam in general part of me says why bother even addressing the baiting posts. And the other part says truth is important. Child molestation is not allowed by the Qur'an. Yes I know some of our members are Islamic studies majors and will trot out "facts" they gleaned from goodness knows where to argue against me on this but it is simply not allowed. Do some bad people do very bad things? Yes. Do all Muslims commit these sorts of abuses or condone them? No of course not. 

I don't think you will find anyone who will condone this behavior. No one will excuse it based on culture. Their culture is what it is and it is deeply entrenched and we never had any chance of changing it. But we did have a responsibility to choose who we worked with more wisely and not blow it off with the excuse that they were a necessary evil. And we never ever should have put our soldiers in the position of having to turn a blind eye to such a thing.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

This was the lead article on Google News this afternoon.


> *US general: no policy to ignore sexual abuse of Afghan boys*
> 
> By Associated Press September 22 at 2:22 PM
> WASHINGTON &#8212; The commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan said Tuesday he expects U.S. personnel to report to military superiors any allegations of sexual abuse of boys by Afghan forces. He added that Afghan President Ashraf Ghani has assured him the government &#8220;will not tolerate abuse of its children.&#8221;
> ...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...803c1a-6154-11e5-8475-781cc9851652_story.html


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Patchouli said:


> ..... I have no doubt it is true.
> 
> ..... *I don't think you will find anyone who will condone this behavior. No one will excuse it based on culture*..... .


Then why do you have no doubt that it is true and was allowed to happen?


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## trulytricia (Oct 11, 2002)

* from that google news story 
"*Ghani has assured him the government &#8220;will not tolerate abuse of its children.'


Seriously? rape, child brides, honor killings?


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

trulytricia said:


> * from that google news story
> "*Ghani has assured him the government âwill not tolerate abuse of its children.'
> 
> 
> Seriously? rape, child brides, honor killings?


I read that too. How can anybody believe that?

If Muslims are anti-homosexual, how do they justify having sex with children? They cannot. If it is cultural, then we should stay completely away from Muslim countries and their people.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

1. Afghanistan has at least a dozen ethnicities inside its borders.
2. Being Muslim is a lot like being Christian, everyone has their own idea.
3. Saying you're Muslim because you're surrounded by Muslims doesn't mean you're a real Muslim.
4. Are you guys sure you know military people? I won't pass judgment on these allegations until we have more facts, but to act like this couldn't possibly happen seems naive. I hate to say it, but I've heard things similar to this, and it isn't like the military said it was okay for them to talk about it.


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## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You're saying the Taliban is better while I'm pointing out they are just as bad.
> It shouldn't have been that hard to understand


I absolutely did not say the Taliban was better. I said I'm not sure it was worth removing them. It shouldn't have been that hard to understand, unless you're a moron.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

*Army rejects appeal from soldier discharged after confronting accused Afghan rapist*

2015.09.22. Politics 










Even as the U.S. military denies reports that American troops were told to ignore Afghan child abusers, an 11-year Green Beret who was ordered discharged after he confronted an alleged rapist was informed Tuesday that the Army has denied his appeal. ...


http://ipresspage.com/news/army-rej...arged-after-confronting-accused-afghan-rapist

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...foxnews/politics+(Internal+-+Politics+-+Text)


I am glad that even more information is coming out about the sex abuse of children from the Afghans.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

kuriakos said:


> I absolutely did not say the Taliban was better. I said I'm not sure it was worth removing them. It shouldn't have been that hard to understand, unless you're a moron.


LOL

You're quick with the insults if anyone dares to question anything you say.

It wasn't hard to understand what you meant at all

It's obvious you were implying the Taliban was better, so save the childish name calling for the school yard.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

To the Taliban point. I think they were toppled mainly because they weren't going to cooperate with US forces going after Bin Laden. Everything after that has been half baked because it wasn't really the objective.


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## kuriakos (Oct 7, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> LOL
> 
> You're quick with the insults if anyone dares to question anything you say.
> 
> ...


No I wasn't implying that. So now you're a liar too.

All I said was I'm not sure it was worth removing the Taliban. We lost over 2,000 soldiers and a trillion dollars and now they can have bibles and their heads uncovered but the laws against child rape are unenforced. Doesn't sound worth it to me. We traded one group of bad guys for another group of bad guys. We could have done nothing and saved the lives and money and the child rapists would still be getting executed.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

This may be just coming out now but has been going on for a very long time.

*Why Was Firefighter-Marine Reserve Maj. Jason Brezler Betrayed?*

Maj. Jason Brezlerâs warnings about an Afghan police chief and his âtea boysâ went unaddressed, and three Marines were slain. One year later, the Marines are taking actionâagainst him.
More than a year after three Marines were shot to death on their base in an insider attack by an Afghan police chiefâs âtea boy,â there is still no official explanation for why a warning that could well have prevented the tragedy seems to have gone unheeded.
There is also no explanation for why the police chief was allegedly allowed to sexually assault children with apparent impunity on an American military facility.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...arine-reserve-maj-jason-brezler-betrayed.html


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## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Fennick said:


> Then why do you have no doubt that it is true and was allowed to happen?


No one here on this forum. The accusation was that liberal members here would try and excuse it.


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## gapeach (Dec 23, 2011)

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20131219/NEWS/312190030/Brezler-should-separated-board-finds

*NEW ORLEANS* &#8212; Although Maj. Jason Brezler received support and endorsements from congressmen, a former assistant secretary of defense, and even Marine Corps generals at his board of inquiry, a panel of three officers recommended Thursday that he be separated from the Marine Corps with an honorable discharge.
 After three days of testimony and arguments and more than two hours of deliberation, the board, composed of Col. James Iulo, Col. Bart Pester and Lt. Col. Todd Manyx, found that Brezler, a Reserve officer and New York City firefighter, had demonstrated substandard conduct, misconduct or professional or moral dereliction, and conduct unbecoming an officer by failing to observe correct protocols for handling classified information. He doesn&#8217;t deserve to stay in the Corps, they concluded.
 Brezler came under investigation in 2012 when he received an urgent email from then-Capt. Andrew Terrell regarding Sarwar Jan, a corrupt Afghan police chief with known Taliban ties and a penchant for child sex abuse who had gained access to a Marine base. Brezler, attending a graduate school seminar in Oklahoma at the time, fired off a classified briefing document about Jan from his Yahoo account.
 When another officer who received the email raised the alarm about sending the document over a nonsecure network, Brezler reported himself to his superiors and cooperated with a Naval Criminal Investigative Service probe into the classified material spillage. The probe turned up another folder with some 106 documents marked secret. Brezler said he inadvertently brought them back with him following his 2010 deployment to Now Zad, Afghanistan, where limited resources sometimes meant Marines worked on their personal computers and thumb drives.
 Seventeen days after Brezler sent the document about Sarwar Jan, one of the teenage boys whom Jan kept on base grabbed a rifle and killed three Marines, seriously wounding another.
 Testifying in his own defense Thursday morning, Bezler said his response &#8220;was just visceral&#8221; when he received the email regarding Jan. &#8220;His name brought me great concern, knowing he was somewhere in the battlespace. I immediately responded.&#8221;
 When he learned about the deaths of the three Marines, he felt that his worst fears had come true, Brezler said.
 

 Our loyalty, appreciation and thanks stay with Maj. Brezler; its the ones who had him discharged who deserve no thanks from us for putting political correctness before the safety of their men and no pride in a man who did put their safety first. 
This was an absurd way to treat a Hero and Warrior!​​


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