# What animals are absolutely necessary for SHTF?



## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

What animals would you, or do you currently, think are necessary to survive a SHTF event?
Think in terms of a one acre parcel (or smaller) up to a multi-acre farm and give the size in response to the question, please, and, the general area in terms of growing zones so we understand what part of the year you have vegetation for those animals.
I saw this asked in another forum, but would like the opinions of homesteaders. Also consider how to feed them in the SHTF circumstances.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Chickens and rabbits are the easiest to raise and give the highest returns for input.
Pigeons also reproduce rapidly and require very little feed if you let them free range.

Add in a pig or two and a couple of milk goats and you have most of your protein and fat needs covered.


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## In The Woods (Apr 27, 2017)

As far as an animal that would be a dog. No better alarm system in a SHTF scenerio as a first line defense.

But I am guessing you are talking about livestock.....


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

We have raised a wide variety of livestock, in Northern California and now in Maine.

Rabbits are good, they may require a lot of labor to procure their feed.

We have had goats, they can be difficult to fence in.

We have pigs now. They do very well on wild scrub, but once winter hits and the ground freezes they become dependent on the farmer to feed them.

We have had a lot of problems with chicken, ducks and turkeys. They consume a lot of feed and predators in this area will wipe them out if you allow them to free-range.

I have been thinking a lot about pigeons.


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## CajunSunshine (Apr 24, 2007)

All fine and good, as long as you can feed and protect the livestock which could become difficult in a severe and prolonged SHTF situation. 

In that case, my bets are on microlivestock (edible insects). Considering their high nutritional profile (especially fat and protein density), I am not squeamish about an easy to raise and keep, low-profile source of food.

You can easily remove the "ick" factor by cooking, drying then powdering the insects before adding them to whatever you are having, even if it is only water.

Google edible insects. The rest of the world has been eating them for thousands of years already. 



.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

I really don't need to consider this question, other then Dogs, because there is such a massive abundance of wild meat available here, from land, ocean, and rivers, and the sky above. And no humans, or nearly no humans here. Plus where I would retreat to has not seen a human in the last 114 years, and it has even greater abundance of fish and game.

In my would prefer geese as guard and warning animals, but I could not feed them for ever and ever. Dogs would live on the same fish and game as myself.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

I guess that would depend on what kind of SHTF you are preparing for?
Just a general collapse?... job loss, stock market crash?..... or full out Zombie apocalypse?

I'm assuming no one will be coming down the road to take your stuff? 

Personally I would stick with chickens or guinea hens ....self raised feed, or lower cost...eggs & meat .....
Maybe goats....milk/meat....but that may overload your one acre.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Ya but until what ever would happen Y2K you have feed fence house them critters and that takes $


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Forcast said:


> Ya but until what ever would happen Y2K you have feed fence house them critters and that takes $


There are animals that can survive on only meat diet, and in a bad enough SHTF, there would be lots of humans that have died and could be feed for animals. Yes, I know the thought of that is repulsive to many. My response is they are not serious about surviving a catastrophic SHTF event. Which works out well, for keeping animals alive.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

So order your pigs!


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

for me on my place in the Virginia hills, lots of pasture , a few patches of tending land totaling up to about 6 acres . I could do like my grandparents did , raise a hog r 2, a milk cow and a few chickens a smaller chunky plow horse . raiseing corn and a little wheat as grain for them and I .along some well tended hay corn fodder, enough to get them through the winter . an easyer option would be a honey bee hive,a couple goats, and rabbits I could raise a patch of alfalfa even cutting it by hand with a size if need be to feed them . raiseing the livestock like they did along with natures seasons brings freshcow milk for a growing pig and I along with the garden, fresh eggs , cull / extra goat kids chickens 3/4 of the year ,butchering the calf ,hog in the fall to lower the feeding through the winter , then home canned, cured and dried meat , veggies,n fruit for the winter, year round rabbits and chickens . with fuel and a tractor ,electric its lots easyer . but not imposable without them


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

One good goat will provide both milk and meat from the kids born. Most times there is at-least one buck born. We used to raise one buck until big enough to breed with and then kill it for meat later before winter. That way we were not always trying to locate a buck to breed with.Since we were only raising the kids for meat we didn't mind breeding the males back to their mothers. 
Goats like bushes, briers , twigs, trees as well as grass so do well on undeveloped ground if they have to forage. Our plan is to just winter one goat . We can cut enough grass with a scythe to make hay for winter for one goat.

One goat will adapt to a person and follow them around at least that what ours did this summer after we sold the rest. The only fencing she will need is an area to put her in if we are away . This summer she hung around the cabin and looked in the window when we were inside . She would lay on the south side in the sun and wait for someone to come outdoors. Once she has kids in the Spring they will follow her as she follows us.

In a SHTF situation or even now we don't want many hay eating animals to provide for anymore. Buying hay wouldn't be an option. Even now with unpredictable weather in our climate here making hay is difficult. It is hard to get three good drying days with North winds. Usually fog comes in or drizzle. Cutting hay for one goat with a scythe the hay can be covered up with a tarp until the sun returns and you don't need a mower, horse or tractor to make hay.

Our goat eats mangels and greens from the garden and we can grow a little wheat if we can't get grain. It would be too much work to provide for more than one goat doing it this way at our age anyway. When we had a lot of goats and farmed with a horse we raised all their food. But now the idea is to just produce what we need and keep things very simple.

The only other farm animals will be 4 hens and a rooster so we can have fresh eggs and have fertile eggs to hatch. Bill still likes meat sometimes but I don't . If there was no alternative I would eat meat though.

Our farm dog died this summer as she was old and I doubt we will get another although that could change. I have one cat also. So 1 goat, 4 hens with rooster and a cat is the extent of the animals we will be keeping from now on.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

While rabbits have been touted in the past as others have said they can be labor intensive to find their food unless you can
free graze in tractors or something.I do still keep rabbits and have considered maybe the best thing would be to live capture
then feed up post TSHTF

My list would be bees,chickens and worms absolute necessity with either goats,sheep or alpacas if i have the room water and graze


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Where the ground is frozen and only icicles and snowfall grow for 5 - 6 months of the year, it is very difficult to provide food for a large number of any type of animal. My grandparents had 120 acres with 80 acres of it in crops. They had a small herd of cattle for which they grew most of the food. It was pretty easy to plant, harvest and store that food with the use of modernized equipment (as modern as you could get in the 1950's to 1990's. They also grew most of the crops we ate. Realistically, to plant, harvest and store all that plant material by hand or with horse power would have been hard, back-breaking and exhausting work. Then you have the issue of heat, without which you will not survive long. Without chainsaws and powered log splitters, gathering and storing firewood becomes much harder. Understanding that in a shtf situation you won't have a job to go to, you will spend nearly every waking hour of every day just trying to stay alive.

No refrigeration, meat would have to be dried or salted. No flour, but then most of us eat too many flour products anyway. No cheese, no sugar. No Doritos, no Poptarts, no orange juice or bananas. So very very sad.

Yep, I'm the wet blanket of the party. Just thinking about all that work is making me tired. 

Considering all that, if I had a choice I would head to a warm tropical island. Gilligan & company had it easy compared to those of us in the north.

We would be relegated to eating way too many squirrels and raccoons. Might even have to cook a feral cat or two. They would be endangering my planted crops anyway and it would be a shame to waste meat.



CajunSunshine said:


> All fine and good, as long as you can feed and protect the livestock which could become difficult in a severe and prolonged SHTF situation.
> 
> In that case, my bets are on microlivestock (edible insects). Considering their high nutritional profile (especially fat and protein density), I am not squeamish about an easy to raise and keep, low-profile source of food.
> 
> ...


I don't think I can make it for dinner. I'll be taking catfish skinning lessons.


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

What great replies! Thanks. I think the one critter to have would be chickens. They are fairly self-reliant, with a little grain help, perhaps, which could be grown...like oats or wheat for a tiny flock. They supply eggs and meat...but a rooster would be necessary to insure future generations. Bees are not my thing, but I have several maple trees to make syrup from for my sweetener...and also have a commercial beekeeper within a mile for perhaps barter possibilities. Any wildlife that was still around (unless it was a true, long term SHTF when other survivors have killed them off) would add to the protein pantry. Excess meat would be canned. Large garden with some crops suitable for the chickens also, as they aren't too picky. Rabbits, in my opinion, take too much feed to keep them productive...but I might have a trio, raise the young for a few weeks, then harvest them, and/or barter for other things. Would love a dairy animal, but too not too practical for my situation. And, of course, you'd need some of whatever you decide BEFORE a SHTF, as finding them AFTER might not work!


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Forcast said:


> So order your pigs!


Bears are better then pigs, anything a pig can do a bear can do better.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Earthworms and bees. A real necessity to breed and keep in captivity because there would be no guarantee that in the "wild" they would survive the apocalyptic event whatever it may be. Earthworms tend to live as far below ground as past the frost line but would that be deep enough?


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## HeavyHauler (Dec 21, 2017)

Sourdough said:


> Bears are better then pigs, anything a pig can do a bear can do better.


Agreed, and they'll eat almost anything. From berries to bodies.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

But how do you domestic or even control a bear and get them to do only what you want them to do? Only eat the dead humans and not turn to easy living human prey once all the dead bodies are gone? It has been proven thanks to our Canadian serial killer that pigs are great digesters of bodies. Of course you would have to keep the clean up squad separate from the pigs raised for your food.


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## Hitch (Oct 19, 2016)

If you could protect them from theft I think they'd be an excellent source of protein.


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## catsboy (May 14, 2015)

When I started out on this prepping journey I put a lot of thought into this and I came up with bees, I currently have 2 hives, worms, I don't eat them but I use the castings for soil improvements and feed them to my chickens, which are great source of protein from eggs and than eat them when they stop producing eggs and lastly dairy goats. What I have not figured out is how to keep their gene pool fresh. I don't want to have a lot of them and I would need a new buck every couple of years or a source of semen to impregnate with. So depending on the severity of the shtf situation I could swap bucks with another got herder, but if none are available I might have issues within 5 years or so.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

catsboy said:


> When I started out on this prepping journey I put a lot of thought into this and I came up with bees, I currently have 2 hives, worms, I don't eat them but I use the castings for soil improvements and feed them to my chickens, which are great source of protein from eggs and than eat them when they stop producing eggs and lastly dairy goats. What I have not figured out is how to keep their gene pool fresh. I don't want to have a lot of them and I would need a new buck every couple of years or a source of semen to impregnate with. So depending on the severity of the shtf situation I could swap bucks with another got herder, but if none are available I might have issues within 5 years or so.


I used to keep goats and will again I think many others will also so as far as genetic diversity I think you would be covered.
BUT I heard a saying and Im sure Im butchering it but. In humans its called incest in animals its called line breeding.

you may not have a big problem with genetic diversity but what I found with rabbits chickens bees etc is that you need a large enough population of whatever to weather the disasters that will occur such as skunks or raccoons eating your critters.

What I noticed is that with my chickens the rooster being the protector was always the first to go when something attacked
if I didnt have others breeding or growing up I would be left with a population extinction unless I could buy/trade for another
pretty quick.This causes the problem of feeding and having a big enough herd,flock,apiary etc that you could weather this without
needing to trade with someone else.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

emdeengee said:


> It has been proven thanks to our Canadian serial killer that pigs are great digesters of bodies. Of course you would have to keep the clean up squad separate from the pigs raised for your food.


They learned it from the people in the Middle East back in BC times. Herds of roving swine are why stones were rolled across the entrances of caves used for tombs. The Spanish conquistadors also used them to clean up after they slaughtered the indigenous people in Mexico. Pigs digest everything except teeth.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

Danaus29 said:


> Where the ground is frozen and only icicles and snowfall grow for 5 - 6 months of the year, it is very difficult to provide food for a large number of any type of animal. My grandparents had 120 acres with 80 acres of it in crops. They had a small herd of cattle for which they grew most of the food. It was pretty easy to plant, harvest and store that food with the use of modernized equipment (as modern as you could get in the 1950's to 1990's. They also grew most of the crops we ate. Realistically, to plant, harvest and store all that plant material by hand or with horse power would have been hard, back-breaking and exhausting work. Then you have the issue of heat, without which you will not survive long. Without chainsaws and powered log splitters, gathering and storing firewood becomes much harder. Understanding that in a shtf situation you won't have a job to go to, you will spend nearly every waking hour of every day just trying to stay alive.
> 
> No refrigeration, meat would have to be dried or salted. No flour, but then most of us eat too many flour products anyway. No cheese, no sugar. No Doritos, no Poptarts, no orange juice or bananas. So very very sad.
> 
> ...



Hi; I was just catching up reading some posts I have missed and saw yours; My husband lived the life and work you described all his 73 yr as he was born on a farm. He grew up farming with horses and later tractors and then back to horses for 39 yrs. I married him almost 40 yrs ago and spent the same 39 yrs living the pioneer life. Yes it was hard back breaking work but it was also a way of life and in our case necessary for survival. It has also been a fulfilling life. It was poor in money but rich in rewards that matter.

What made us change how we are doing things is a couple of factors. One is our age and it takes longer to get the work done. The other is we wanted more time for family and friends and volunteering to teach others how to grow their food. One major consideration for us changing how we live is the weather is not dependable anymore. Conditions have changed all over the world in nature and we must adapt. We can't change weather patterns that affect farming so we changed how we will farm. We will still garden to eat but won't be market gardening anymore. Bill teaches others how to grow their own gardens starting with a local children's community garden.

For ourselves the idea is to grow more in a smaller space where we can control the weather effects. Draining the garden area in case it is too wet or being able to cover plants in case of frost by keeping things small will enable us to do that..Limiting the animals to just what we need will enable us to still have eggs,milk, meat, yogurt , cheese and butter without keeping a big work horse , machinery and putting up hay in large amounts. This has been getting harder with unstable weather here.

Using a scythe a person can cut enough winter hay easily for a goat. We also made our own haylage and baled hay without machines. He is fencing an area for the goat so when we are not outside she won't go back to the old barn. She will have a small house inside the fenced area. This is a lot easier than fencing a whole farm pasture , maintaining a large barn and less expensive.There is great advantage to keeping farming small enough to meet your family needs. Bigger means more work which is fine if you are young. But we are not young anymore.

Bill also broke up sod ground with out hardly any effort for a new garden space just by covering the area with heavy black plastic, weighting it down and leaving it over last winter. Then in the Spring the sod was rotted up. He added compost and tilled it in. Then planted buckwheat for a cover crop. Later he tilled that under and replanted and left it over this winter. It is called "green cropping" or "green manure". This year we will be planting that area. The garden area is about 20 ft x 40 ft. Farming and planting like we used too we could not have done it this way. Our other project will be to make another small hot house as the former one sold with the house and barn.

Our intention is to take the hard work out of living simply! We feel compelled to grow our own food as long as we are able so to stay healthy as we get older. It is a way of life for us. Have a nice day.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I remember all the empty spaces between the long narrow rows in Grandma's garden. I always thought those empty spaces were a waste of space. Now I'm working on developing beds 3 to 4 feet wide and as long as the garden. You can grow more in less space and they don't take as much work. It is something I never saw as a child and didn't even think of doing for years. Now I see bed gardens all over the place. They are much easier to cover to keep bugs out or extend the season. But in the back of my mind I keep thinking, "Grandma would never approve of this". She also would not approve of potted spinach and lettuce but that's the only way I can have it long enough to get a worthwhile harvest.

Yes, the old ways are back-breaking but somehow deeply satisfying. I miss those days.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Look at what they keep in the poorest third world countries. Chickens and goats. If you live in an area with long winters you will move or starve. In central Asia there are still a lot of nomadic people, who move with the seasons. In the event of a general SHTF situation there will be a large die off of people. The first year will be the toughest.

Muleskinner1


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

catsboy said:


> When I started out on this prepping journey I put a lot of thought into this and I came up with bees, I currently have 2 hives, worms, I don't eat them but I use the castings for soil improvements and feed them to my chickens, which are great source of protein from eggs and than eat them when they stop producing eggs and lastly dairy goats. What I have not figured out is how to keep their gene pool fresh. I don't want to have a lot of them and I would need a new buck every couple of years or a source of semen to impregnate with. So depending on the severity of the shtf situation I could swap bucks with another got herder, but if none are available I might have issues within 5 years
> 
> 
> muleskinner2 said:
> ...


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

chickens, rabbits, goats and respectful hunting. Bartering with others. Put up 2x in years of plenty...honey and maple syrup.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

I live in a region where there are people who hunt, fish or forage for 90% of their current food intake. 

If our society collapses tomorrow, these people would still be able to feed themselves and their families from what is naturally available via hunting, fishing, and foraging. Except for the intervention of the starving and armed zombies that in a Post-SHTF world would be out there looking to possibly kill anyone who is thriving.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

ET1 SS said:


> I live in a region where there are people who hunt, fish or forage for 90% of their current food intake.
> 
> If our society collapses tomorrow, these people would still be able to feed themselves and their families from what is naturally available via hunting, fishing, and foraging. Except for the intervention of the starving and armed zombies that in a Post-SHTF world would be out there looking to possibly kill anyone who is thriving.


The question I would ask is if 100% of the population or even close to that is getting 90% of their food intake from wild sources.If so good for you and your neighbors but if only a small percentage is you will still very quickly run into trouble even without MZB's to worry about.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

damoc said:


> The question I would ask is if 100% of the population or even close to that is getting 90% of their food intake from wild sources.If so good for you and your neighbors but if only a small percentage is you will still very quickly run into trouble even without MZB's to worry about.


I believe that at least 50% of the population in my county, could get most [90%] of their food needs from locally hunting, fishing or foraging. But they simply do not want to.

Of the people that I associate with many do. But I clearly do not associate with everyone.

Most of the people I associate with are organic farmers, who produce food for themselves and for market.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

ET1 SS said:


> I believe that at least 50% of the population in my county, could get most [90%] of their food needs from locally hunting, fishing or foraging. But they simply do not want to.
> 
> Of the people that I associate with many do. But I clearly do not associate with everyone.
> 
> Most of the people I associate with are organic farmers, who produce food for themselves and for market.


You and your neighbors are (More or less) largely in the exact same situation as myself and those in this area where I live.
We call it subsistence lifestyle. And we get special subsistence harvest allotments that are simply not available to others.


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