# Gender Equality for Survival



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

We have a lot of friends who are preppers as well and some who are extreme. We have had some very interesting discussions and even a few that have made me think that some serious pharmaceuticals were needed. 

It is quite uplifting to see what people think is important and how they handle preparations. Again some of it is truly amazing but some is borderline nuts. One thing for sure - you can always learn something because even the nuts are really thinking about the details.

So it is surprising to me how many of these preppers do not see the importance of gender equality. 

Every male should be able to do everything the females can do and every female should be able to do everything the males do. 

That is real preparation for survival because who knows who will survive? So everyone better be able to step into the missing shoes. 

And yet the men really don't see the importance and don't think it is necessary. The women do and are more than willing to learn all the "man" stuff. 

In a survival situation everyone needs to know how to defend themselves but they also need to know how to cook, bake bread, preserve foods, garden, sew, care for babies and children, identify plants etc etc. 

My husband and I grew up in families where there were no gender jobs. Everyone learned the things they needed to know to function in all aspects of life. 

I just don't understand the disconnect.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Very sound thinking, and it goes on here as well...at least on a large scale...somethings are better done by one or the other, but we each (and the kiddos) can cobble thru just about whatever presents itself.

Matt


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Absolutely true. There are always going to be jobs that one of us is not only better at but enjoys doing more. I am never going to change a tire as quickly or effortlessly (and certainly always with more swearing) as my husband but I can change it. And his bread is edible but definitely not mine. But then again my bread does not match up to his Moms.

It is important to keep practicing at the things you don't do well but also to take on a mind set that lets you do jobs you don't like with a willing spirit. Not easy but necessary.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Ability not gender is the reality where I live so it is odd to hear but can. Accept that it is others reality


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say?


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

emdeengee said:


> Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to say?


I also had trouble understanding until I took the period out after 'can' and then small 'a' on accept.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

sounds great but when I offered lessons in taking out the trash none of the ladies showed up.

same thing when I offered lessons in threading pipe and running gas line,small engine repair , mowing the lawn , cutting fire wood , changing tires , shoveling snow .....

I may not sew very well but i can patch a pair of pants 

only tasks in this house I choose not to do are hair and makeup , I have to draw the line somewhere

I guess that isn't completely true I give hair cuts , your choices come in 1/8 inch increments from an 1/8 th to an inch


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## Dutch 106 (Feb 12, 2008)

Uh you do know the incredible level of naivety in your statement. Men can do anything except conceive and feed babies from there own bodies, woman can do anything they can. which I will note not as well as men most of the time. just because they don't carry the muscle mass. If you assume that anyone on the sharp edge is going to worry about GENDER ROLES! The mind boggles. You get the job done. or you don't survive. 
I refuse to bow to east and west coast political correctness they will be the very first to go the way of the Dodo. If you think Farmers in the 1800's worried about gender Bias!
Just bloody silly,
By all means be offended, I really could care less.
Dutch


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Explorer said:


> I also had trouble understanding until I took the period out after 'can' and then small 'a' on accept.


I saw the typos and they did not stop me from reading it as one sentence but I still am not sure of the meaning.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Dutch 106 said:


> Uh you do know the incredible level of naivety in your statement. Men can do anything except conceive and feed babies from there own bodies, woman can do anything they can. which I will note not as well as men most of the time. just because they don't carry the muscle mass. If you assume that anyone on the sharp edge is going to worry about GENDER ROLES! The mind boggles. You get the job done. or you don't survive.
> I refuse to bow to east and west coast political correctness they will be the very first to go the way of the Dodo. If you think Farmers in the 1800's worried about gender Bias!
> Just bloody silly,
> By all means be offended, I really could care less.
> Dutch


I have no doubt that people (gender invalid) will get the job done. What I was talking about is preparation. The time to learn first aid is not when you have already been bitten by a snake. Anyone can learn to shoot at anytime but would you wait until you are starving and think you might need to hunt? 

I wouldn't. And no one should be dependent on anyone else to do the job for them. No sitting on the porch while the wife tends the garden.

Same with canning or plant identifications. " Here Dutch - you try this wild carrot soup. whoops. sorry. my boo boo. that was hemlock. " RIP


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> sounds great but when I offered lessons in taking out the trash none of the ladies showed up.
> 
> same thing when I offered lessons in threading pipe and running gas line,small engine repair , mowing the lawn , cutting fire wood , changing tires , shoveling snow .....
> 
> ...



From your list I can do everything but run gas line. But I can run irrigation lines. 

Haircuts? I have been doing that since I was 6 (dolls, teddy bears, dogs, cousins).

If none of the women you know are willing to learn then they are not interested in preparation and survival so I guess you are on your own. 

I know lots of men who don't know how to take out the trash so I don't think lack of interest and ability in that subject is gender based.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> We have a lot of friends who are preppers as well and some who are extreme. We have had some very interesting discussions and even a few that have made me think that some serious pharmaceuticals were needed.
> 
> It is quite uplifting to see what people think is important and how they handle preparations. Again some of it is truly amazing but some is borderline nuts. One thing for sure - you can always learn something because even the nuts are really thinking about the details.
> 
> ...


Hey if I could teach my wife those skill the place would run better.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Where I am people get the jobs done with no regards to gender.. having been here so long it seems odd that that is not the norm else where.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Kasilofhome. I now understand. That is what I think preparation for emergencies and survival should be about. No regards as to gender. Everyone trained and able to do whatever is necessary. When we visit friends who don't live this way it also seems odd to us. I would love to say it is a generational thing but it seems to be random amongst both the elderly and the young.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

There are concessions to speed and efficiency that can be made for women to do some of the things requiring upper body strength & stamina, but as the Army and Marines have shown through their endurance testing the genders are not equal in all ways. If you've got a problem with that, talk to God about it.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Tom...Each person learns to do all jobs...then know their skill level ...knowing both helps when assigning chores.

I can use the chainsaw....but I am better at hauling the wood but each time I do one tree to improve cause I might just have to do it alone.

My son stopped playing with his shirt buttons and one can resew them on.

I can shoot the guns but allow others who see better handle the gun when I even think there is any life form near me cause ...I have nothing to prove....but alot to lose if I miss.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

You guys seem to be missing the point. Whether or not a woman can do a particular job better than a man or a man can do a particular job better than a woman is not what gender equality for survival is about. The knowledge, training and experience of doing any and all jobs is what is important. Practice makes perfect. And every child should undergo training (age appropriate of course) in all functions of life so that they can pitch in and help or even take care of themselves.

In a serious situation or cataclysmic event you do not know who will be injured or dead or if you will be separated. If your wife dies you need to be prepared to take care of your baby. If your husband dies you need to be able to chop wood. It isn't a competition or a threat to any ones masculinity or femininity. It is a question of proficiency (just being able to do it) and common sense. Right now if someone is a better shot then let them take the shot. But you need to be able to take the shot when they are not around.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I got your point the first time, and only a fool would disagree, or perhaps someone that has never truly been in situation where they had to rely solely on themselves for every task, not necessarily a survival situation, just life in general.

Since I knew exactly what you were getting at, I'll go straight to the question you asked.



"And yet the men really don't see the importance and don't think it is necessary. 
I just don't understand the disconnect."


A few of the men took a little offense at that, but that's ok. If it doesn't apply to them personally, they'll get over it, lol.
I'll give a better response in defense of my gender though.

Even if you haven't seen it in your social circle, the reluctance to learn unnatural tasks, goes both ways, if you look for it.

Ever seen a pretty young woman waiting, seeming helpless, on the side of the road waiting for a capable young man to change her flat tire?
Every good father knows to teach her daughter how to do it herself for a darn good reason. This one probably knows how, too.
Every good mother should teach her sons how to cook a decent meal, sew buttons and hems, wash clothes and clean the house. Mine did from the time we were big enough to reach the kitchen counter.
The simple fact is, one day Mommy or Daddy may not be around anymore. Life can throw some pretty mean curve ball's........but the game still goes on for the rest of us.:lookout:

Nevertheless, we all see our other half's do chores that we personally dislike and choose to let them do it.

*The key, is appreciation.*

My wife will tell you, I'm probably a better cook than she is, but she still does 99% of it, AND the lion's share of the housework.
Every so often, I need to remember to tell her what a huge help that is to me, and that I appreciate it. Even better, is when she comes home tired at the end of the week, and finds the kitchen clean and something hot and ready to eat.:happy:

We can all be a little selfish and ignorant sometimes, men and women alike.
But the point you made is worth noting. 
Better to be prepared in case one of us is incapacitated or off doing something vitally important and the other is left to "fend for themselves" for awhile.
Practicing that self-reliance may seem trivial when it's NOT necessary, but you can bet your life it will be important if, and when the time comes.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

The whole thing comes down to some people seem to be helpless. It is one of my pet peeves. I can't tell you how many men I have seen or heard of that have to get married so they can have someone to cook for them or do their washing. A man I know couldn't cook he needed his wife to do it. He had this idea that it was woman's work and he didn't do womans work, but boy if he needed help holding a board to be nailed or some one to pump breaks to help bleed them he expected her to help. If I'd been her I'd say "it is men's work I don't do that." I have seen people who sit there acting helpless and expecting someone else to do something for them that they could do if they tried. Of course there are people who you don't want the responsibility of helping them do something. I know some that if I taught them to chop wood They probably would hit their foot and I don't want that responsibility of being the one to give them the ax. It has been my thought that, especially in the case of husband and wife, they are a team and they should help each other in what ever needs to be done.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

I think men and women naturally fall into roles where their talents are best utilized. I'm not one to completely abandon the idea that men and women are fundemetally different in a lot of ways and that difference is an asset, not a problem. That said, we do need to know how to fill in and learn the other half's tasks as well as we can. I'm pretty confident that I will never be a Great cook though. :shrug:


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

emdeengee said:


> You guys seem to be missing the point. Whether or not a woman can do a particular job better than a man or a man can do a particular job better than a woman is not what gender equality for survival is about. The knowledge, training and experience of doing any and all jobs is what is important. Practice makes perfect. And every child should undergo training (age appropriate of course) in all functions of life so that they can pitch in and help or even take care of themselves.
> 
> In a serious situation or cataclysmic event you do not know who will be injured or dead or if you will be separated. If your wife dies you need to be prepared to take care of your baby. If your husband dies you need to be able to chop wood. It isn't a competition or a threat to any ones masculinity or femininity. It is a question of proficiency (just being able to do it) and common sense. Right now if someone is a better shot then let them take the shot. But you need to be able to take the shot when they are not around.


I agree.

For the most part, we tried to teach our children, so each can cook, mend clothing, do laundry, hunt, use tools, etc.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Perhaps I should clarify my earlier post a bit. I took the OP to be another liberal lesson in gender equality, without taking into account physical limitations and assets of the genders. Personally, I don't consider anything to be "women's work". I do most the canning & dehydrating, cook, wash dishes, wash clothes, clean toilets, vacuum, etc. that could fall into what many people would consider homemaker chores.

However, I can also drive t-posts all day, where my wife couldn't start the first one without a ladder, and would have to stop after the third one from shoulder pain. She has a 20 gauge shotgun and a .223 rifle, both of which she shoots well, but don't even hand her my 12 gauge or .30-06 for more than 2 shots.

Without acknowledging the natural differences in physical abilities there can be no honest discussion of how survival situations would apply to different genders.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

A long as the rice is boiled, you will survive. Flavor is extra.

As long as the deer is brought in you will survive. Packing the meat in in one trip is extra. 

DH and I will probably fall back to gender roles but only because I am a better cook and he is almost a foot taller than I am. We *CAN* do each others work, and that counts! We just do not do each other's work as well.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Tom you are right. I might know what to do but I own up that I lack the physical strength compared to my son.

Now, when our personal shtf happened.

What we had as our reality was a man who used to do work become and invalid and his mental decision skills altered so honestly his being in bed was often a blessing in that he did not get in the way.

The boy was on the cusp of turning 9 and was quite small for his age weight a bit over fifty pounds. It was on me a female who had very limited experience in chainsaws and permanent rugged outdoor living...it was overwhelming for me for the first few years and very limited progress to meeting basic needs were met.

I used the axe vs the chainsaw due to my lack of strength... and welcomed donated wood when it came. Often times it was mention at church that the men would be coming out to help and they would appreciate a meal if possible and to let the ladies know if I needed a hand there.

It would have been stupid on my part to be so stubborn to cry out sexism when it was not that. It was my lack of skill. When they said the men... that included Sarah and her tweener both sex children.. her husband worked long side the women.

She had the abilities as did her kids just a bit older than my boy. .....trust me I got my boy spending time there because I wanted my boy to be as productive as those three kid.....Those kids could fly a airplane and work on it ...mom taught them.

So, knowledge and body type and health and talent,and strength make a difference in the results of work and sometimes what looks sexist is not it simply is the best use of labor. 

But having the knowledge and the willingness will go far.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Terri said:


> A long as the rice is boiled, you will survive. Flavor is extra.
> 
> As long as the deer is brought in you will survive. Packing the meat in in one trip is extra.
> 
> DH and I will probably fall back to gender roles but only because I am a better cook and he is almost a foot taller than I am. We *CAN* do each others work, and that counts! We just do not do each other's work as well.


That is exactly my point. You can do all the work. Simply having the ability for each person to do what needs to be done. The whole idea of being a prepper (short for preparation) is to learn and practice now. Be prepared. It is not the time to learn to swim when the water has already reached your lower lip.

And once again - you do not know who will survive so you may be able to fall back to gender roles but if the other gender is not around you have only yourself to fall back on.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Perhaps I should clarify my earlier post a bit. I took the OP to be another liberal lesson in gender equality, without taking into account physical limitations and assets of the genders.
> 
> Really? I wonder where you got that idea? There was nothing in what I wrote to give you this so I guess you saw what you wanted to see.
> 
> Once again I state - my opinions and ideas on this subject have nothing to do with this being a gender competition or threat to anyone's femininity or masculinity. It is not about comparing who can do which jobs better but solely to do with preparation. If your wife is off fighting then you need to be able to do everything she does and if you are off fighting she needs to be able to do everything you do. And if one of you is dead then you only have your knowledge, skills and training to fall back on.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

BlackFeather said:


> The whole thing comes down to some people seem to be helpless. It is one of my pet peeves. I can't tell you how many men I have seen or heard of that have to get married so they can have someone to cook for them or do their washing. A man I know couldn't cook he needed his wife to do it. He had this idea that it was woman's work and he didn't do womans work, but boy if he needed help holding a board to be nailed or some one to pump breaks to help bleed them he expected her to help. If I'd been her I'd say "it is men's work I don't do that." I have seen people who sit there acting helpless and expecting someone else to do something for them that they could do if they tried. Of course there are people who you don't want the responsibility of helping them do something. I know some that if I taught them to chop wood They probably would hit their foot and I don't want that responsibility of being the one to give them the ax. It has been my thought that, especially in the case of husband and wife, they are a team and they should help each other in what ever needs to be done.


I too have seen this sort of scenario many times. Men who sit at the table with a napkin around their necks and fork and spoon grasped in hand and just waiting to be fed. Women who would rather stand at the side of the road for hours waiting for some man to come along and change the flat tire on her car than do it themselves. 

And I used to think that this was a generational thing but it applies to the old and the young. It is very difficult to teach old and middle aged dogs new tricks but survival may depend on it. And personally I would be ashamed if any child of mine was sent out into the world without all the skills and abilities to take complete charge of their own well being and that of any member of their family (current and future).

When it comes to being a prepper there are some real warning signs. If your partner does not want to learn new things willingly then the problem is that they are not really interested in doing what you are doing. And this is much more serious than not being able to boil water. Teamwork is the ideal but if not then you have to make different preparations.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> From your list I can do everything but run gas line. But I can run irrigation lines.
> 
> Haircuts? I have been doing that since I was 6 (dolls, teddy bears, dogs, cousins).
> 
> ...


In my wife's defense she did take a class on fixing her own bike , she has put a new screen in her laptop , and can figure many things out when she is tired of waiting for me to get around to it. 

and the garbage is a definite lack of interest as long as I am around to take it out 

every one in my house has to be able to cook something and handle a gun 
I only have one daughter that gives me a hard time about using a gun , but oddly she wants a sword and dagger either way she has to display minimum handling skills weather she likes it or not 
I don't know why she dislikes it she was shooting SKS just fine when she was 7 years old but now as a teen , i think it's just a teen thing.

yet still no intrerest in taking out the trash


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> In my wife's defense she did take a class on fixing her own bike , she has put a new screen in her laptop , and can figure many things out when she is tired of waiting for me to get around to it.
> 
> and the garbage is a definite lack of interest as long as I am around to take it out
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with a sword. My Dad started to teach my sister and I to shoot when we were about 8 and 9. We started fencing the next year which was mandatory since my Dad was the instructor. 

My sister disliked both activities and did not want to do them but was kept at it until she reached a certain level of proficiency. About age 12. 

She never did get back to shooting but when she was 15 she discovered that there were a lot of really cute boys learning to fence so she suddenly wanted to play catch-up. Silly girl. Those boys were so respectful (read in scared) of my Dad that they ignored her.

All these decades later even though my reach is not as far (age shrinkage) I can still handle a sword (read in yardstick) well enough to impress the kids and the husband. And teach them some moves.

Sadly you may have to give up on the trash.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

When men and women work together, such as both hoeing the garden, both putting gas in the car, both reaping, both collecting fire wood, and so on, women are treated much better. As soon as labor is divided by gender, women loose. The male jobs become more important and the female jobs less important. It doesn&#8217;t matter who works more hours, it will be gender biased which jobs are important. The person doing the &#8216;more important&#8217; jobs will become the more important person with higher social status. This is seen in the greater social order, but also (and beginning) in the home.

I think it is important for everyone in a family to learn all household chores. Those who do not do not appreciate what others do. In my family the boys washed dishes and did their own laundry. Girls learned how to change a tire, also emptied the trash. Everyone was encouraged to play sports, be in the school play, and go to college. This not only develops confidence, but plays a large part in gender equality.

Emdeengee, I think the men you spoke with are afraid of loosing social status if women can do what they do, and vice versa.


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## willbuck1 (Apr 4, 2010)

Everyone should know the basics necessary to keep life and limb together. That said no one can know all of the fine points necessary to keep going in a survival situation. There are too many fields of knowledge for anyone to know it all. In any group of people there has to be some limits on who does what or nothing ever gets done because nobody has the skill and efficiency to do it well and quickly. I have been busy learning all I can about prepping for close to forty years but I am by no means an expert on everything and there are some skills that I am still way deficient in. There has to be a division of labor just to achieve required knowledge and skill levels.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

willbuck1 said:


> Everyone should know the basics necessary to keep life and limb together. That said no one can know all of the fine points necessary to keep going in a survival situation. There are too many fields of knowledge for anyone to know it all. In any group of people there has to be some limits on who does what or nothing ever gets done because nobody has the skill and efficiency to do it well and quickly. I have been busy learning all I can about prepping for close to forty years but I am by no means an expert on everything and there are some skills that I am still way deficient in. There has to be a division of labor just to achieve required knowledge and skill levels.




That is many persons reality, including my own. I have never felt that as a female my jobs were ever deemed if less than a man's--- but I have been credited as a team player in getting jobs done. To me this war on women...hear me roar is divisive. Perceptions that requires lowering standards to qualify some for a position that they can't do to set standards is an insult to all and foolishly could put people at risk.

Most jobs have a need for certain minimum skill level to complete for success. If you can't do it get out of the way ...practice and learn... keep trying till you can.... but don't let you ego threatened the success of the task.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Without acknowledging the natural differences in physical abilities there can be no honest discussion of how survival situations would apply to different genders.


I'll add a comment to this.

Small people need to think smarter. Women _and_ men. If they don't have the size, strength and weight behind them to get a heavy job done with their own brute physical abilities they need to figure out how to improvise and use additional tools that will help them get the job done. It might take longer and require more patience and determination, but it can be done if the small person has the ingenuity and will power to use extra tools and even make extra tools if necessary.

Because if the big person isn't there to do the job then the small person still has to do the job themself anyway, one way or another.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Fennick said:


> I'll add a comment to this.
> 
> Small people need to think smarter. Women _and_ men. If they don't have the size, strength and weight behind them to get a heavy job done with their own brute physical abilities they need to figure out how to improvise and use additional tools that will help them get the job done. It might take longer and require more patience and determination, but it can be done if the small person has the ingenuity and will power to use extra tools and even make extra tools if necessary.
> 
> Because if the big person isn't there to do the job then the small person still has to do the job themself anyway, one way or another.


That's an EXCELLENT point.
I'm a smaller than average man, yet I often do things that would normally require 2 or 3 men.
Levers, wheels, ramps, block and tackles, etc. are examples of using the strength of your brain to compensate for lack of strength elsewhere.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't know why this has ended up as a female versus male discussion. My sole point is that each individual should know the basics of survival strategy - NOT that you need to be an expert on everything just that you need to familiarize yourself and practice. You - male or female - will be 911 as well as butcher, baker and candlestick maker.

You only really have yourself to count on because in a serious situation you do not know if your wife, husband, kids, neighbours etc will be injured or even survive. 

If you have never wielded an ax or chain saw or learned the physics involved in the use of levers, wheels, ramps, block and tackles then the day the tree fell onto your husband is not the day to start learning.

And if taking a rectal temperature measurement makes you pass out then Daddy needs more practice. 

And canning - well botulism killed many people in the good old days so if you have no idea about the rules and safety measures you are playing green bean roulette. 

This is not about competing or who can do a job or procedure faster, better or easier. I am simply suggesting that people who are interested in preparation and survival look upon all jobs as gender equal - nothing is exclusively male or female. Familiarize yourself with all aspects.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> I don't know why this has ended up as a female versus male discussion.


Maybe because the thread's title is "Gender Equality for Survival"?

It's an easy assumption with a title like that you'll get people discussing the disparities between the genders. If you don't like the answers, don't ask the question.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Sorry I don't see how my use of the term "gender equality" in regards to survival preparations (learning everything you can and not restricting access to this knowledge because you are a male or female) leads to discussing the disparities between the genders. 

Gender equality means the state in which access to opportunities and rights is unaffected by gender. 

Gender equality does not imply that women and men are the same, but that they have equal value and should be accorded equal rights and opportunities. 

Discussions of disparity between the genders when the subject of gender equality comes up is used to support the argument that there is no gender equality because one gender is always inferior in one way or the other. 

Males have some superior qualities over the female gender - as do females over males - but this has nothing to do with the basic concept of gender equality - equal opportunity, and rights in preparation for a survival scenario.

In other words a father/mother who does not bother to teach his/her daughters to hunt, fish, build is denying them the right and opportunity to survive. Just as a mother/father who does not bother to teach her /his sons to cook, garden and care for children is s denying them the right and opportunity to survive. Will the son always be the better hunter or builder? Possibly, but possibly not. Will the daughter always be the better cook and caregiver? Possibly but possibly not. All these jobs are gender equal when it comes to rights and opportunity.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Since this isn't the Politics forum, I won't get into how politically charged the term gender equality is. I'll just say it's a poor choice when trying to discuss everyone in a family/group learning as much as possible about survival.

I seriously doubt anyone who visits this forum, male or female, is in any way discriminating in learning or teaching prepping/survival skills. Doing otherwise would be foolish on a personal level.

I want my wife to know everything I know, and vice versa. At the same time we both understand each others limitations. I depend on her to watch my back, so I wouldn't want her to do that with a weapon she couldn't effectively handle. Other common sense allowances are made all the time, not through discrimination, but through realistic assessment of abilities.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

well worded Tom.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

You seem determined to ascribe a political agenda to the term gender equality when there is none in my OP and the whole subject - except where you choose to see one.

Unfortunately there are many people who just can't get past the "man's work" and "woman's work" mentality. And as I mentioned before, it isn't even just a generational thing as I thought it would be. That has been a surprise and warning.

It would be great (and comforting) to think that all of those who are concerned with survival strategies are beyond this sort of limited thinking but unfortunately there are many who are not. It SHOULD simply be a matter of common sense - no one should even have to prompt people to look at this from this angle - but we continue to see that this is not the case in our immediate neighbourhood and my own experiences. 

Once again - this is not a competition or threat to anyone's femininity or masculinity but simply my suggestion that people pay attention to who amongst their immediate family and friends knows what and then we fill the gaps where they appear. 

You seem focused on gender limitations as opposed to concentrating on learning, experiencing and practicing. 

I think a lot of people think that they will always be a complete unit of parents caring for children and dividing up the work. That THEY won't die. I have been lucky in that nothing really, really bad has happened in my life but my friend from Bosnia watched her parents and younger brother massacred. Fortunately she knew enough to enable her to hide and survive because she was the gender neutral farm worker and hunter for her family so she got to learn, experience and practice before the horror happened. Age 17.


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## Jluck (Jul 26, 2014)

emdeengee said:


> From your list I can do everything but run gas line. But I can run irrigation lines.
> 
> Haircuts? I have been doing that since I was 6 (dolls, teddy bears, dogs, cousins).
> 
> ...


So... you do or do not realize gender has nothing to do with desire or knowledge. You are not equal to me nor am I equal to you.

I frickin hate the PC correct "equality" bull ---- forced down our faces daily.. we are what we want to be or make ourselves.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

sigh. Apparently some will just never get it and continue to try to turn what I have written into a political issue. 

I guess that the idea that a woman or girl can use a chain saw (very competently) to take care of their family in a serious situation will just have to keep threatening some very fragile egos - even though the threat is imaginary. My post is just about men, women and children working together to prepare each other to be able to do for themselves in simple, middling and extreme survival situations. Simple and easy to understand when you are not looking for hidden agendas.


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## 36376 (Jan 24, 2009)

Whether you had a political agenda or not, the term gender equality IS a politically charged term. That PC term is used to further emasculate men. What you are proposing isn't gender equality it's common sense. Most of us would agree that we should cross train. To say that some us don't "get it" is just furthering the disconnect. A lot of us are very weary with the PC jargon that we are constantly bombarded with on a daily basis and then are belittled when we are perceived as not getting the drift. The agenda was established with the terminology. If your point was cross training maybe a more appropriate angle should have been... cross training and working together and then not chastising people who don't subscribe to PC terminology.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Carmen Renee said:


> Whether you had a political agenda or not, the term gender equality IS a politically charged term. That PC term is used to further emasculate men. What you are proposing isn't gender equality it's common sense. Most of us would agree that we should cross train. To say that some us don't "get it" is just furthering the disconnect. A lot of us are very weary with the PC jargon that we are constantly bombarded with on a daily basis and then are belittled when we are perceived as not getting the drift. The agenda was established with the terminology. If your point was cross training maybe a more appropriate angle should have been... cross training and working together and then not chastising people who don't subscribe to PC terminology.


I learned yesterday on documentarys (History Channel 2)that PC was big with Hitler to control people. I was also amased how much Obama's ideology is exactly the same. I had heard this back in 2007/8 and still, but watching for hours about that kind of thinking sure brought it closer to home


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Sinse I'm a homesteader and that is much like a prepper but we live it every day. Yes, I am able to do most everything my dh can do and much he can't.example- I can climb ,roof build ect.,but he cannot because of his knees. He can tear apart/fix a transmission on any vehicle known to man , and I can't at all. Nothing arround here has a "gender" status.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

First off,
Anyone comparing President Obama to Hitler IMMEDATELY looses credability in any conversation.
Our current President isn't trying to kill off half the worlds population, and he's not trying to take over the world by force.

Secondly,
If you change the term to 'Gender Ability' it would be much more accurate.
I've known tall blondes that can tear down top fuel dragster engines and rebuild them in two hours.
And look as good in an evening gown as any celebrity.

I've know female combat pilots that were absolutely fearless.

The idea of being female as a handicap is as stupid as the person that would suggest it...

Third, 
There are a ton of 'Males' (not 'Men' by a long shot) I wouldn't trust with a potato gun...

Give me a woman that is going to pull with me, someone that isn't lazy or off in their own world, or can't get over their own egos long enough to accomplish anything every time...

Ignorant just means they aren't educated on the subject at hand,
I can teach basic skills,
Stupid and judgmental is forever and there isn't anything you can do about it.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

JeepHammer said:


> First off,
> Anyone comparing President Obama to Hitler IMMEDATELY looses credability in any conversation.
> Our current President isn't trying to kill off half the worlds population, and he's not trying to take over the world by force.


 YET. I listened with my own 2 ears after doing extensive reasurch on the fraud obama sinse 2007. Hitler didn't use force, he was voted in too, remember. 

The rest of Your post, I agree with.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Without turning this into a political discussion, just some facts about,
President Obama,
1. Married to the same woman for many years
Not a hyprocate ranting on about the sanctity of marriage and going through 3 or 4 wives...

2. Not even a rumor about affairs or illigmate children.

3. By all accounts an excellent father that makes time for family and chidern.

4. Well educated, which he paid for himself, well read, well spoken.

5. Handed a $1.47 TRILLION government budget deficit,
Reduced that budget deficit to $474 Billion, a 2/3 reduction.

6. Reduced the trade deficit by trillions by buying back national debt that was at 8% and sometimes higher.
This will save TRILLIONS in coming years on interest alone.

7. Got us clear of an illegal & unwarranted ground war in Iraq that was costing $1.5 Billion a month.

8. Unemployment is hovering around 5.5%
People that haven't looked for a job in the last 7 years are job hunting again.

9. A collapsed stock market is at record highs.

10. Even busted up old folks like me can get health insurance with pre-existing conditions.

11. Holding Halliburton responsible for the $12.5 Billion in government tax dollars they received but can't account for (no bid contract from GWB/Cheney).

12. First minimum wage increase since the 80s.

13. Osama Been Gotten! (Thank you SEAL Team 6!)

14. All the while dealing with the most irresponsible, obstructionist congress on record...

These are just facts, and my last word on this subject...

----

Now, if you would like to get back on the rails,
Talk about potential gender issues in an emergency situation since the country is nowhere near an economic collapse,
I'd be happy to continue...

Did I mention when I got shot through the lungs my medi-vac pilot,
That took seriously heavy ground fire to pick me up,
Was a woman?
Got two choppers shot out from under her in 13 months and never flinched an inch, just got a new bird and went right back to saving lives.


The area was too hot for 'Combat' aircraft, yet she wouldn't leave wounded on the ground in an unarmed medical helo...


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## Jluck (Jul 26, 2014)

JeepHammer said:


> Without turning this into a political discussion, just some facts about,
> President Obama,
> 1. Married to the same woman for many years
> Not a hyprocate ranting on about the sanctity of marriage and going through 3 or 4 wives...
> ...


Don't forget how unicorns are thriving under his tenure too. I know it's true and fact as I read it on a liberal progressive Web site full of "facts". It must be the same one your "facts" come from. Posts like yours reiterates why this country is forever doomed.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Jluck said:


> Don't forget how unicorns are thriving under his tenure too. I know it's true and fact as I read it on a liberal progressive Web site full of "facts". It must be the same one your "facts" come from. Posts like yours reiterates why this country is forever doomed.


Ya, I got to number 1, and couldn't read the rest for laughing about his beard of a wife, of which the words out of his own mouth- wouldn't marry a white woman because he would not want to live up to a white woman's standards.(because he isn't black except for that 6.25%)
And oh ya, about the deaths under him, just ask one of his gay lover's mothers, (Donald Young) and ya, I can roll the other names right off my tounge-there were days that many people came out and spoke the truth of -o- but it was just ignored anyway.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I for one appreciate that Osama, er Obama (channeling ted kennedy) got Osama.... O got Osama, like Nixon landed on the moon...

Obstruction is great, when you're out of power...

4? Any proof he paid anything?
5? Of course, those forced cuts didn't have anything to do with it? 

DO love that O's giving Wall Street a trillion a year in stimulus funds... still...


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## nostawmama (Dec 29, 2011)

My home is rather gender divided- I will be upfront about that. I cook, clean, care for children. I don't mow the grass, change the oil in the car (except at lube shop) or wield a screwdriver. Although, oddly, I am the one that takes out the trash... 

My husband and I are on the same page regarding prepping. I know that his skills are a compliment to mine and we are both trying to add things to our skill set by learning different things from the other. It might seem like "gender inequality" but for us it works right now because of _time constraints_. 

Our Reasoning: It is more likely for us that we would be together in an upcoming crisis and we would rather have our team cover all the bases instead of the team only covering half of them. We are both reasonably sure that we could "swing it" if the other was absent but currently our goals are aimed at attaining a maximum of knowledge in a team situation. Later the goals will probably change. In the future,we would both strive for some level of proficiency in each others work. This would provide some redundancy (gotta love that word as a prepper!) as the OP suggested. 

I cannot presume to understand why others might act the way they do about skills that are typically for the opposite in gender but I can only assume that we are not the only couple/family in this world that think the way we do!


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

I can do most anything the wife can do, though I'm not good at all of it. I'd really hate to deliver babies for example, but my wife is a Midwife and has that covered. Could I do it? Yeah, but I'd hate every minute of it.

Would she want to do the trading? No, she hates wheeling and dealing. She could do it, but she'd hate it.

Of course, I can't breast feed and she can't lift a man over her shoulder and carry him up a hill so there's that I guess.... LOL


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## Lookin4GoodLife (Oct 14, 2013)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I guess that isn't completely true I give hair cuts , your choices come in 1/8 inch increments from an 1/8 th to an inch


That's funny.  My Dad was "old school" and growing up, we had two choices for haircuts.... a crew cut, or a crew cut. LOL


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## otobesane1 (May 27, 2008)

Carmen Renee said:


> Whether you had a political agenda or not, the term gender equality IS a politically charged term. That PC term is used to further emasculate men. What you are proposing isn't gender equality it's common sense. Most of us would agree that we should cross train. To say that some us don't "get it" is just furthering the disconnect. A lot of us are very weary with the PC jargon that we are constantly bombarded with on a daily basis and then are belittled when we are perceived as not getting the drift. The agenda was established with the terminology. If your point was cross training maybe a more appropriate angle should have been... cross training and working together and then not chastising people who don't subscribe to PC terminology.



I was wracking my brain to come up with a response stating what you just posted without being offensive or political. Thanks for making it ease for me. I, too, am tired of the PC police using gender as a club with which to beat us over the head. In the event of a crisis or SHTF event, "gender equality" will be laid aside and common sense, skills, experience and preparedness will carry the day....X or Y chromosomes notwithstanding.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

My VIEW POINT,
The same skill sets are redundant, which can be a good thing in some cases, like if one dies or is disabled...

Other wise it's wasted time to duplicate everything...

If you want to expand your knowledge base, you have to introduce NEW skill sets.
It's just that simple...
I put up with the tin foil hat bunch, the end of the world bunch, the racist rants simply because there *Might* be something to be gleaned from them that will click and make my life easier...

I am a 'Gears & Wires' guy, if it's mechanical or electrical, I have it whipped...
I fail MISERABLY when it comes to a bunch of other things.
I can use all the help I can get!
Home canning is a MECHANICAL process, but getting it to taste like something I actually want to eat is a different matter...
The idea of adding this or that for flavor/palatability is beyond me, so when someone TEACHES me how to do their recipe for something really good, I'm forever grateful. (so are my taste buds!)

Even though I've done mechanics and electronics for 40 years, I still find easier/simpler ways to do things by watching/learning what others have figured out,
Or been taught.
It's collect knowledge base, not just what you can duct tape together,
Or give up entirely and break you back doings something that should be automated.

I'm NOT going to crap in the woods simply because I'm too stubborn or too cheap to lean about/install a septic system.

I'm NOT going to live in the dark, or do without electricity because I'm too stubborn or cheap to install some sort of electrical system.

I'm NOT going to cut, split and pack wood around simply because I'm too stubborn to learn how a wood pellet or corn heater works, and/or install one.

I believe in renewables, there is no problem with that.
It's no issue what so ever to learn about, install, and maintain a solar, wind, water generator for electricity.

I believe in home canning where you can control the contents of your food supply.
It tastes better, it's better for me, and when done correctly, it's fairly easy to do and makes a profit for other things I want to do. (Economy of Scale)

I don't have time for the ranting and raving, the flag waving, 
Every idiotic conspiracy theory that someone can cook up...

I don't care for a second if it's a woman or man, black, brown or white, or any of the other things so many waste time on,
If they have a good idea, then it's a good idea...

I don't care if they are weak or strong, pee standing up or sitting down, 
If they can help me out, then I'll return the favor...
Someone has to hold the sandbag when you fill it, so everyone has a place/purpose.
I honestly don't care if they are young or old, 'Smart' or a little slow, if they can get a particular job done, then go to it!

Political rants just waste time... It's a procrastinate position for people wanting to waste time. (Theirs AND mine)

You CAN do this, and you can make it profitable while maintaining sustainability, I've proven it.
It's simply if you organize your thoughts and work day, make your stand doing something feasible, and put in the hours required to accomplish your goals.
You can't grow much on anything on rocks without water, so agriculture is out,
You can't do solar in a forest, too much shade,
You can't grow a garden on stumps, so you have to remove the stumps...
It's that simple...

Doesn't matter if you educate yourself, or you employ someone to educate you,
Education is essential,
Wasting time on side tangents instead of putting in the hours required to get your goal accomplished is time wasted and goals not achieved.
Doesn't matter who is doing the work, what color their skin is, or how they pee...

One reason so many people rant and rave,
The immigrants they rant and rave about, different skin colors they rant and rave about, the different political parties they rant and rave about...
The people they are ranting about are actually putting in the hours, getting something accomplished, and earning a better living in the process,
And frankly, don't have time for the BS.

A complete inability for this thread to stay on topic is a prime example...


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## hilly7 (Jul 12, 2015)

I didn't know there was a "gender role", my girls and wife can do more things than I can in a lot of things. We each have what we're strong in not because of gender but just natural abilities. Only 1 of our girls though was willing to learn different things and I'd put her up against any male, including myself in several areas. There are things though we almost assign to each other, based on enjoyment and ability. We are Preppers, I don't think the crazy kind though.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

My sisters and cousins were all doing exactly the same things,
Working in the garden, taking care of stock animals and pets,
Home canning,
And working on your basic wide range of farm equipment.

One of my female cousins is a union welder with the boilermakers,
Another is a race car mechanic...

I trained several women in long range/accuracy shooting in the Marine Corps,
And the women ALWAYS catch on faster than the men for some reason...
Don't know if it's because they listen better the first time around,
Or if they don't collect the bad shooting habits before we got them for proper training.

I'd put a farm raised female up against any of the 'End Of The World' types that didn't grow up on a farm or do service in the military...
They don't panic, They know EXACTLY what they are doing, They learn quickly, and they know a good idea when they hear it.

They also don't have to argue about everything!
If it's going to make their lives easier, they get right with the program...

What I call 'City Folk' will roll around in poison ivy, won't hydrate, complain constantly, walk out of a barn loft because there wasn't 2 safety rails and a flashing light, ect.

You can't teach common sense, 
Common sense comes from good judgment.
Good Judgment comes from mistakes.
Mistakes happen when you have poor judgment.
Poor Judgment/Mistakes come from TRYING to do something.

Those that do nothing never make mistakes,
But they don't learn anything either...
Race/Gender/Formal Education all take a back seat to common sense when you are working in the rough...

The 4 Wheel Drive idiots that go 'Deer Hunting' once a year that profess to be 'Woodland Experts',
(Deer Hunting... Read: Drunk, Loud, Eating Spam & Telling Lies.
Mostly a 'Fashion Show' for store bought camouflage.)

These guys would kill themselves in a week if they had to run a chainsaw, split wood, and you know they wouldn't make it through the first winter...

I'll take a woman that can grease the tractor, change her own thermostat in her car, break down and clean her firearms, tend and can a garden any day over some bloated, bloviating, armchair 'Expert' that once killed a deer after spending $12,000 on a hunting trip and related 'Survival' gear...


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Emdeengee,

I think the idea you described is very important and also overlooked a lot of the time. I have always been struck by how traditional gender roles are almost always represented in much of what is on the internet, youtube and in most all prepper and SHTF fiction often cited on forums. I think that it is critical for each person to be able to do every required activity in the event of an emergency. The longer the crisis the more critical it becomes. It is just as important for men to know how to cook, sew, nurse and garden as it is for women to be able to cut firewood, shoot proficiently, defend themselves, and clean all their firearms.

I would not call this gender equality. It does not make genders equal. But everyone, regardless of sex needs to be able to do every task equally well. And needs to spend a lot of time on learning totally new skills which they don't already have. Even those not normally required in homesteading. The goal is to try and make each person in the family, on the homestead, or in the group or community as self sufficient as possible. I believe this maximizes effectiveness in an emergency situation. 

KMA1


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I can see that many are determined to give a meaning to Gender Equality which is false and political and agenda driven. Which of course completely neutralizes the purpose of my post on discussing gender equality in preparation for survival situations 

For those who insist on being insulted and threatened by what they THINK Gender Equality means:

Gender equality means the state in which access to rights or opportunities is unaffected by gender - that women and men have equal conditions for realizing their full human rights and for contributing to, and benefiting from, economic, social, cultural and political development. *Gender equality is therefore the equal valuing by society of the similarities and the differences of men and women, and the roles they play.* It is based on women and men being full partners in their home, their community and their society. 

I see no purpose in continuing this discussion since it is (and has been from the beginning) corrupted in its intent by those who just want to whine about their feelings about women's lib and insist on dragging it off topic. So sad and unnecessary.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

emdeengee said:


> I can see that many are determined to give a meaning to Gender Equality which is false and political and agenda driven. Which of course completely neutralizes the purpose of my post on discussing gender equality in preparation for survival situations


Pretty much. This often happens when it is pointed out that boys need to be able to cook their own food and girls need to be able to change a tire.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

emdeengee said:


> I can see that many are determined to give a meaning to Gender Equality which is false and political and agenda driven. Which of course completely neutralizes the purpose of my post on discussing gender equality in preparation for survival situations
> 
> For those who insist on being insulted and threatened by what they THINK Gender Equality means:
> 
> ...


Here's what I think.

I don't believe there is any reason to discontinue the discussion just because you feel there are a few dissenters trying to twist things around or drag it off topic to suit their own agendas. I think what we're seeing here are some engrained cultural differences in a few folks who want to have a debate instead of a discussion but also there's posts where there's a lot of understanding and agreement with others. 

Let everyone contribute their own opinions and remember that nobody is twisting anybody else's arm to respond to everyone. Some people believe that every discussion is supposed to be some kind of debate but not everyone believes that everything is debatable. Ignore the ones you feel are off track and missing the point since debating with those off track or trying to make them see your point is still pointless and frustrating and your frustration is now evident in your above post. Remember - Response is not a written in stone requirement and often the very best response is no response. 

There is no reason why you can't continue the discussion with the posters who do understand exactly where you're going with the topic and who are staying on track with you as relevant to the topic. 

Or discontinue your posts as you please if you're getting bored with the topic. :shrug:

Not everyone who is reading the topic is contributing to it and it may be they don't feel they have anything important to say yet. But that doesn't mean they aren't getting something important out of the discussion by reading what other people have to say, whether it's yea or nay. I thought it had been an interesting topic so far since it illustrates so many facets of how people think.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

You misunderstood me or I I did not make myself plain - I see no purpose in continuing the discussion. Me. Myself. I. I have never been one to bang my head against a brick wall. 

This thread is completely off track from the intended concept that I was trying to present to stimulate ideas about survival training and preparing for worse case scenarios when part of your team is no longer around or alive. I was hoping to learn something new or get some new ideas but unfortunately that has not happened.

I did not ask to have the discussion closed and I certainly have no problem with people posting whatever and where ever they want. It would just be nice to once in a while have a discussion that does not deteriorate into left or right wing doctrine. I live in hope but meanwhile there are other threads that are interesting and informative.


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