# Life without Antibiotics (grim thought



## stickinthemud (Sep 10, 2003)

A thread up in CF "Cut on finger won't heal" got me thinking & I'm putting this out on S&EP as a "What If." Right now we can call the DR or go to the ER and expect a round of antibiotics to take care of most infections. But modern medicine is running in place trying to find new drugs as the current ones become ineffective. I won't get into the whys.
Soâ¦ What happens if antibiotic resistance becomes commonplace and you can't expect to be cured with a few pills? How that change your preps? What if you go to the ER & they call for IV drugs, or hospitalization, or tell you they can't help. How would you react? How do you see your life changing? the world changing? 

(Thank God this is not today. Blessings, RL, I hope your finger is healing well.)


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I wonder if the abundant use of antibodics in everything is not lowering our body's ability to fight off many of these bacteria/bugs. 
More thoughts after I think some more.


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## spacecase0 (Jul 12, 2012)

the biggest thing antibiotics are doing is causing people to gain weight, 
it is why they put it in animal feed and it works on humans as well, 

the current drugs are not working well anymore, 
so our future will have the plague return, 
we had a nice break from it, but it was only temporary, 
I expect that gloves will return to good fashion.


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## mooman (May 19, 2008)

Lots of antiseptic and sterile dressings + promp attention to ANY open wound. I'm as guilty as anyone of shrugging off a cut or scrape (I'll take care of it when I shower tonight). If we were in a " no antibiotics available situation" you can bet I'd stop what I was doing right then wash the heck out of it with alcohol, peroxide and more alchohol and bandage it GOOD before going back out to work.



> the biggest thing antibiotics are doing is causing people to gain weight,
> it is why they put it in animal feed and it works on humans as well,


I'm not buying this. Antibiotics to my knowledge have no effect on weight gain. They put it in animal food as a prophilactic measure against infections that run rampant in CAFO type situations but weight gain....... Maybe someone else can chime in on that.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

Antibiotics don't cause weight gain in humans OR animals. They work in animals by warding off the diseases that can INHIBIT proper growth. Unfortunately, all that antibiotic use builds resistance in the bacteria, making it harder and harder to fight infection with the common antibiotics. Add to that, people wanting to use antibiotics for every sniffle (most sniffles are from viruses, BTW, which are unaffected by antibiotics), and/or not completing the entire course of treatment because they feel better, and resistance continues to build. We see an increase every day in MRSA, VRE, and other, even more vurulent diseases. In my fairly small community, there are at least a couple of folks that have a superbug that cannot be treated by any antibiotic on the market today. The golden age of antibiotics is coming to an end, barring any new advances in medicine. Scary thought, isn't it?


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## Space Cowboy (Apr 26, 2008)

mooman said:


> Lots of antiseptic and sterile dressings + promp attention to ANY open wound. I'm as guilty as anyone of shrugging off a cut or scrape (I'll take care of it when I shower tonight). If we were in a " no antibiotics available situation" you can bet I'd stop what I was doing right then wash the heck out of it with alcohol, peroxide and more alchohol and bandage it GOOD before going back out to work.
> .


Good advice. The only thing I might also do is irrigate the heck out of the wound (first). This the usual culprit in infection. Also change the bandages as often as practical.

SC


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## whodunit (Mar 29, 2004)

We use Vitamin C ( sodium ascorbate) in place of antibiotics.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

Eat Moose meat problem solved.


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## Old_Grey_Mare (Feb 18, 2006)

Time to learn about herbal medicine. Yarrow is a powerful healing herb used topically on cuts and it also stops bleeding. Now is the time to be learning about what is all around us and how to use it.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Doctors have been over prescribing antibiotics for years and people have been abusing them for years. That's one of the reasons they have lost their effectiveness. IMO, people need to stop running to the doctor everytime they get the sniffles and allow their body to fight it off. What we do is when one of us gets sick, ususually something like bronchitis, we don't go to the doctor for at least a week to see if we're able to fight it off ourselves. If we're no better after a week, or earlier in case of high fevers or signs of dehydration, then we'll go to the doctor to get antibiotics. That's about the only time we use them. I think my 14 year old son has only taken antibiotics twice in his life.


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## txplowgirl (Oct 15, 2007)

Another forum i'm on talk about fish antibiotics. Surprisingly they are the same things. Made, look, and same mgs. A lot of people including myself are stocking up on them.


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## spacecase0 (Jul 12, 2012)

mooman said:


> I'm not buying this. Antibiotics to my knowledge have no effect on weight gain. They put it in animal food as a prophilactic measure against infections that run rampant in CAFO type situations but weight gain....... Maybe someone else can chime in on that.


here is where I found that info 
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v488/n7413/full/nature11400.html
there are also a few news stories about it
Antibiotics Linked to Weight Gain: Scientific American


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

I will wait for more info than a single study before I subscribe to this theory. That aside, we humans are not intentionally taking sub-therapeutic antibiotic doses daily, as the mice in the study were. Obesity in children cannot be exclusively tied to a course of antibiotics prior to 6 months of age....there are too many variables. It's a theory, it may even be right, but in the end, the question here is: what do you do when the antibiotics don't work or simply aren't available.

I do buy fish antibiotics and even use them on rare occasions! Please, if you're going this route, educate yourself on how to use them correctly. Which meds for what condition, correct dosing and course of treatment, and the importance of finishing the full course, even if you feel like you're well are all important. Also, I'll add, make sure you are taking probiotics or live culture yogurt while on antibiotics. The drugs kill off ALL the bacteria in your gut, and you need to re-populate it with the good bacteria that prevent the overgrowth of things like yeast and nasty microbes like c. Difficele.


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## EarthSheltered (May 9, 2008)

Spacecase, I wonder if that study wasn't done on confined animals that were also given steriods for rapid weight gain? Steriods and Antibiotics are often given together, one for increased appetite, and the other, as ManygoatsNmore stated, to prevent illness in CAFOs.


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## spacecase0 (Jul 12, 2012)

EarthSheltered said:


> Spacecase, I wonder if that study wasn't done on confined animals that were also given steriods for rapid weight gain? Steriods and Antibiotics are often given together, one for increased appetite, and the other, as ManygoatsNmore stated, to prevent illness in CAFOs.


that is a good question, 
I have no way to find out (I think)

if you do need antibiotics and don't have them people will likely start dying, 

I have read about people getting through the black plague by eating silver that was taken off coins with a file...
kind of a horrible solution, but it sure worked, 

I have a colloidal silver generator as well as a "clark zapper" (I have been building them) and they seem to do rather well
zappers2003

there are other methods than what the pharmacy sells if you start looking for them, even spices often work well, 
cinnamon is a good one, but it is not as good as the colloidal silver or zapper


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

manygoatsnmore said:


> I will wait for more info than a single study before I subscribe to this theory. That aside, we humans are not intentionally taking sub-therapeutic antibiotic doses daily, as the mice in the study were. Obesity in children cannot be exclusively tied to a course of antibiotics prior to 6 months of age....there are too many variables. It's a theory, it may even be right, but in the end, the question here is: what do you do when the antibiotics don't work or simply aren't available.
> 
> I do buy fish antibiotics and even use them on rare occasions! Please, if you're going this route, educate yourself on how to use them correctly. Which meds for what condition, correct dosing and course of treatment, and the importance of finishing the full course, even if you feel like you're well are all important. Also, I'll add, make sure you are taking probiotics or live culture yogurt while on antibiotics. The drugs kill off ALL the bacteria in your gut, and you need to re-populate it with the good bacteria that prevent the overgrowth of things like yeast and nasty microbes like c. Difficele.


I want to stress what you said about taking the correct dose and the FULL course, even if you're feeling better, finish taking them. This is one of the reasons we have problems today with antibiotics. People not taking enough to completely kill the bugs and the bugs become immune to the antibiotics by building a resistance to it.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

I have plenty of good antibiotics growing in my garden.
And at this point and time, they will work better against infections than do prescription antibiotics.
Even doctors and hospitals are having to turn back to nature to fight drug-resistant strains.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

A thoroughly crushed poultice of common plantain leaves ought to fix that finger, with a few freshenings of the charge.

A natural diet, lacking in preservatives and dead calories, is good preventative medicine.

Moose meat couldn't be a bad thing.........


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Colloidal silver or colloidal copper both work. Easy to make. Silver can be ingested, but personally, I wouldn't ingest copper, but that is jmho on that.
My daughter in law runs the wound clinic at the hospital. They have resorted to using silver (silvadene) on MRSA because none of the antibiotics were working. And silver works. Amazing stuff. People with big oozing cellulitis wounds on the legs were coming it on all sorts of oral antibiotics with no relieve. They started lathering on the silver directly on the wounds and they heal! They also use the bandages with the silver in them. I don't know what those are called for sure though, but the silver is directly in the bandaging material and goes directly on the oozing wounds.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

.....and for those less fortunate..... garlic, vinegar and honey are killer anti-biotics.
Hard to overdoes on them, too.

Funny how the natural world doesn't lend itself to many excesses like chemical remedies.

That said, my experiences with colloidal silver have been positive.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

They have had cases of MRSA that have spread inside the body like to the lungs. People get really deathly ill from that. At the hospital, they don't use silver for that, but I think if they did resort to prescribing the ingestion of oral colloidal silver they would have much better results than with antibiotics. I just know that DIL is the head nurse that runs the wound clinic and for the wounds, they love silver for MRSA.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Without antibiotics I would expect the average life expectancy to take a sharp drop. Alot of people died of infection in the old days. A rotten tooth could have meant your life back then.

I would be very very careful to thoroughly cleanse any and all wounds, and educate myself better about wound care.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Silver, in solution or cream, is an OUTSTANDING topical antibiotic. Does not really do diddly internally. Colloidal silver solution is THE treatment for pink eye curing. Works like a charm for humans or animals. There are several really excellent herbal antibiotics like garlic, echinacea and even honey that are basically proven to work really well with no side effects and no possibility of the bacteria building any resistance because the herbs work differently that do the chemical drugs.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

I think that we could all benefit from maintaining our health, so that a wound (properly cleaned and bandaged, of course) would stand less chance of becoming infected.

Natural remedies take longer to work than the quick effect of meds such as antibiotics, but they are gentler to our system and to nature than pharmaceuticals.


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## kinnb (Oct 23, 2011)

and then there are those of us who allergic to almost every single antibiotic out there...living that dread already. it becomes a toss-up as to which is worse, the allergy or the illness. that said, I've been as careful as I can in learning about what other remedies are out there. anything related to the ragweed family is out. silver sounds like something I need to check into. thanks for that!!


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Forerunner said:


> .....and for those less fortunate..... garlic, vinegar and honey are killer anti-biotics.
> Hard to overdoes on them, too.
> 
> Funny how the natural world doesn't lend itself to many excesses like chemical remedies.
> ...


I was shocked with the pediatrician on base suggested honey for my DS for his cough due to sinus drainage, but was also very glad to hear her suggest it.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

Hygiene first and foremost! Soap and water used frequently in generous amounts beats a pharmacy of antibiotics.

Then learn your herbs and how to use them. Grow as many as you can.


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

We all need a certain amount of exposure to bacteria to keep our immune systems working properly, so do not buy the anti-bacterial soaps and do not bleach clean your house every week....who has time for that anyway? 

Garlic, onions and honey are part of my regular diet and when I get a cut or scrape (usually every other day) I already know I'm going to heal very quickly 99% of the time so I never put any ointments on them....if I don't heal quickly then an old fashioned soak in salt water is sure to bring the poisons out in no time.


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## Maverick_mg (Mar 11, 2010)

kinnb said:


> and then there are those of us who allergic to almost every single antibiotic out there...living that dread already. it becomes a toss-up as to which is worse, the allergy or the illness. that said, I've been as careful as I can in learning about what other remedies are out there. anything related to the ragweed family is out. silver sounds like something I need to check into. thanks for that!!


This is me. It's the reason I became a bee keeper so I could raise my own antibiotics.


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## Xanadu (Aug 15, 2012)

Forerunner said:


> .....and for those less fortunate..... garlic, vinegar and honey are killer anti-biotics.
> Hard to overdoes on them, too.
> 
> Funny how the natural world doesn't lend itself to many excesses like chemical remedies.
> ...


I keep manuka honey around for infections. It is one of the only proven treatments for MRSA and is used in quite a few hospitals. I've seen it heal diabetic ulcers that had been open wounds for years. There are even combat bandages manufactuored with only sterile gauze and the honey (marketed to the military and trauma/wound management clinics overseas). Any Internet search will bring up lots of info about manuka honey (needs to be UMF 16+ to really fight the nasty bugs, the honey is made from bees who forage off the manuka tree, commonly know for producing tea tree oil, another great anti-viral/anti-bacterial/anti-fungal tool for yor medicine chest)

One of the best alternatives to antibiotics is prevention. I use herbal vinegars for lots of things around the house. In particular a four-thieves blend is great for cleaning your counters and taking internally with your salad to boost your immune system. There are lots of versions of the story, but it goes something like this....During the black plague a group of men started robbing the homes of victims, at first no one cared because they figured they signed their own death notice, but after a few weeks of it continuing suddenly everyone had to find the robbers who were immune to the disease. Once captured they bargained for leniency by sharing what they did. Apparently one of the men's mother was a midwife/herbalist so they used a strong herbal vinegar to soak their face rags and disinfect their bodies and their spoils....there are as many variations as to what herbs are used as there are versions of the story, but the following are all naturally great as either anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and combat parasitic organisms, and when combined and soaked in a jar of vinegar for a few weeks make an excellent and healthier bleach alternative. (rosemary, peppermint, yarrow, lavender, thyme and garlic, though I don't use the garlic in my cleaning version, it is in my salad version) Not all vinegar of the four thieves recipes are safe to take internally (some include wormwood) so know the herbs you use and don't take internally unless you make it yourself and educate yourself on the herbs 

My oldest hasn't been to the doctor other than a yearly physical in over 10 years, my youngest has never even taken an antibiotic (she's 7). 

I don't prep with antibiotics, I grow mine outside (herbs) and adhere to good prevention practices, while keeping a few heavy hitters around (honey, silver, concentrated witch hazel) for the unforseeable situations.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

There is an old drink, called "switchel", that consists of equal parts honey and vinegar, watered down to taste, that has been used for centuries as an energy replenisher.
In a contest, it would have Gatorade tapping out in the first five seconds.

Heat the mix and add a shot of Jack Daniels (I won't recommend distilling your own, here....that's illegal!  )and you've got high grade cough medicine if ever there was.

Now, the truly brazen could add the juice from crushed garlic to either..............


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

There is also colloidal silver.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> There is an old drink, called "switchel", that consists of equal parts honey and vinegar, watered down to taste, that has been used for centuries as an energy replenisher.
> In a contest, it would have Gatorade tapping out in the first five seconds.
> 
> Heat the mix and add a shot of Jack Daniels (I won't recommend distilling your own, here....that's illegal!  )and you've got high grade cough medicine if ever there was.
> ...


That mix might taste good as a salad dressing, or a meat marinade


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

Xanadu said:


> I keep manuka honey around for infections. It is one of the only proven treatments for MRSA and is used in quite a few hospitals. I've seen it heal diabetic ulcers that had been open wounds for years. There are even combat bandages manufactuored with only sterile gauze and the honey (marketed to the military and trauma/wound management clinics overseas). Any Internet search will bring up lots of info about manuka honey (needs to be UMF 16+ to really fight the nasty bugs, the honey is made from bees who forage off the manuka tree, commonly know for producing tea tree oil, another great anti-viral/anti-bacterial/anti-fungal tool for yor medicine chest)
> 
> One of the best alternatives to antibiotics is prevention. I use herbal vinegars for lots of things around the house. In particular a four-thieves blend is great for cleaning your counters and taking internally with your salad to boost your immune system. There are lots of versions of the story, but it goes something like this....During the black plague a group of men started robbing the homes of victims, at first no one cared because they figured they signed their own death notice, but after a few weeks of it continuing suddenly everyone had to find the robbers who were immune to the disease. Once captured they bargained for leniency by sharing what they did. Apparently one of the men's mother was a midwife/herbalist so they used a strong herbal vinegar to soak their face rags and disinfect their bodies and their spoils....there are as many variations as to what herbs are used as there are versions of the story, but the following are all naturally great as either anti-viral, anti-bacterial, anti-fungal and combat parasitic organisms, and when combined and soaked in a jar of vinegar for a few weeks make an excellent and healthier bleach alternative. (rosemary, peppermint, yarrow, lavender, thyme and garlic, though I don't use the garlic in my cleaning version, it is in my salad version) Not all vinegar of the four thieves recipes are safe to take internally (some include wormwood) so know the herbs you use and don't take internally unless you make it yourself and educate yourself on the herbs
> 
> ...


Could you post how you make your mixes, both for cleaning and salad kind? I love rosemary and peppermint.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Sanza said:


> We all need a certain amount of exposure to bacteria to keep our immune systems working properly, so do not buy the anti-bacterial soaps and do not bleach clean your house every week....who has time for that anyway?
> 
> Garlic, onions and honey are part of my regular diet and when I get a cut or scrape (usually every other day) I already know I'm going to heal very quickly 99% of the time so I never put any ointments on them....if I don't heal quickly then an old fashioned soak in salt water is sure to bring the poisons out in no time.


When my youngest was born very sick all of her Dr's made it a point to tell us on every visit to NOT use the antibacterial soaps and not to "sterilize" anything. They said it would only weaken her immune system and make her susceptible to more infections.

I used bleach wipes on shopping cart handles but that was it. People also get very upset when you don't let them touch a baby's head. It's a cultural thing down here.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

I have not read every word in every post but I don't think anyone has mentioned probiotics. Usually we get enough but when your system gets down we need a boost.


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## WV Farm girl (Nov 26, 2011)

Salt in wounds and soaking in salt water. Dump salt on a cut and then wrap with a damp bandage. Leave it alone for a while then rinse off, dry and bandage. Soak twice daily in a salt water solution. Hurt? You betcha! It works though. Wound heals quickly and takes the soreness out. 
I've used it a couple times. Once ripped a finger nail off. Had someone I worked with dump salt on it. Darn near passed out from the pain. Finger never got sore and I had a new nail in no time.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

A lot of the old timers used to put kerosene on cuts and it would help stop bleeding and was a pretty good antiseptic. Use at own risk. Do not injest.


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## Xanadu (Aug 15, 2012)

Ruby said:


> Could you post how you make your mixes, both for cleaning and salad kind? I love rosemary and peppermint.


I mix up my dry mix using 1/2 C of each herb (sometimes I also add or substitute other herbs like oregano or calendula) but the ones I mentioned above cover all your needs for combating bacteria, viruses, fungal outbreaks, mold and parasites. 

I take a 1/2 gallon mason jar fill it with vinegar (white for cleaning and organic apple cider, like Braggs, for using internally)

I then fill a 3x5 muslin bag full of the herb mixture, tie it tight and put it in the jar and screw on the lid. I shake it 1-2x a day...usually I just stick it in a closet, but sometimes I stick it in a window to have the sun jump start the infusion for a day or 2 before sticking it somewhere dark to finish. After 3 - 4weeks it can be used, but letting it sit for 6 or more weeks will give you a strong infusion. If you don't have the muslin bags you can just throw the herbs in and strain using wire mesh when it is done, and if you only have quart jars use about 1 heaping T of each herb or 1/4 C of the mix, 1/2 C if using loose in a half gallon mason jar.

Don't add the garlic until a week or two before you are ready to use or it will overpower everything, then only use 1 or 2 cloves, a little goes a long way with the garlic. Aside from the garlic it is easier and preferable to use dried herbs because fresh have a water content that can alter the final product, and it would take a lot of fresh to equal the potency of the dry. (it can be done, and I do it, but it is best to start with dried herbs till you are comfortable making herbal vinegars and know how they should look so you can recognize when a fresh herb batch fails from leaching too much water into the vinegar, which can lead to spoilage)

If you forget to shake for a day or two, no biggie, just shake the jar well at least 1x a day for the first week, and 1-2x a week from then on. (herbal vinegars are pretty forgiving)

To use the cleaning vinegar I mix in a spray bottle with equal amounts water and clean everything with it. Mirrors, counters, even hardwood floors (I follow on the floors with a homemade wood polish using almond oil) I use the herbal vinegar full strength to clean toilets and cutting boards, but diluted in everything else. I really don't recommend using the garlic in the cleaning blend. The vinegar odor evaporates quickly, and a light herbal odor remains.

The ACV herbal vinegar I keep in a bottle on the counter and mix with olive oil for salads....sometimes I'll mix it with balsamic vinegar for a thick marinade...so many options. I make other vinegars/oils as well, like blackberry ginger balsamic vinegar and a lime infused olive oil that when mixed taste like "candy" according to my 7 yo. 

I make a lavender & rose petal vinegar for conditioning hair.....the process for all of these is pretty much the same....there really is no wrong way to make infused vinegar, just remember to use dried herbs till you are more experienced. The amount of herbs used and length of time infusing affect the final potency, but a few weeks extra or not using enough herbs won't make the final project unusable ( just add more or less water if diluting to clean and ditto the more or less if taking internally)

I also recommend learning about the herbs you use....research the herbs you plan to infuse, even if you only ever use just these herbs and no others you will know everything lavender can treat, which herb is anti-viral and which is anti-bacterial. Which can also be made into a salve for cuts and which can be tied directly to a wound. Then take it a step further and grow a few of the herbs, learn to dry them yourself...save the seed and replant. Once you've done this you have your own self sustaining medicine chest.....


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## DianeWV (Feb 1, 2007)

Yep, but I would hate to imagine dealing with an abcessed tooth with no antibiotics. talk about painful...


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

Keep in mind that presence of multi-drug resistant bacteria strains will *tend* to "revert to the mean"... lose many resistances... once the use of various antibiotics becomes less common. Generally, the bugs give up something, ability to metabolize something else, perhaps, or have to use nutrients to maintain the resistance rather than for general growth, or some such, when they mutate to various resistant forms. They'll mutate right back to "wild" types when the evolutionary pressure shifts. So, while it wouldn't be the case within a couple of months after a TEOTWAWKI collapse, eventually more and more antibiotics would become more and more useful, right back to good old penicillin and streptomycin. That's my theory, anyway, and I'm sticking with it to the extent of maintaining a decent stock of a variety of such meds aiming to have them *especially* for six months or a year into any extensive supply collapse; that's when they'd really be life-savers even if not so much right now.

I do also have a nice batch of tubes of silver sulfadiazine/aloe burn cream but thus far remain unconvinced colloidial silver is of much value.


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

About anti-bacterial soaps and cleaners-

We don't use them. In fact, our house doesn't get cleaned enough, sorry to say, but with my ADHD I haven't been able to get it together to do much cleaning. 

We just use plain old bath soap for hand washing, or a non-antibacterial liquid soap on occasion.

My sister-in-law, by contrast, is super-duper clean. Her house is spotless all the time. 

Her kids have been sick a lot, especially the younger one, and she has missed a ton of school days over the years.

My 16 month old daughter, on the other hand, has NEVER been sick, even though she was born via emergency c-section 4 1/2 weeks prematurely. She has never even had a runny nose, knock on wood.

She has never had store-bought baby food- we have cooked all of her food from scratch. She eats loads of fresh vegetables and fruit, and no sugar at all, except for what she gets in Yoplait yogurt (and I am going to start making my own yogurt in a few weeks after we finish with the garden). She gets lots of fresh air and sunshine playing outside because we do not watch television.

I tease my SIL that she is TOO clean, and that crawling around on dirty floors has helped my daughter stay healthy, but there really is a lot of truth to that. Oh, and I don't bathe her every day, although she gets wiped with a wash cloth throughout the day as needed, and her diaper area is cleaned with every diaper change, but no popping her into the tub every single day. Sounds weird, I'm sure, but her pediatrician swears that she is one of the healthiest babies in her practice, so I don't think I'm doing anything wrong with her. knock on wood.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

What would you do about bleeding and such in the winter? Are yarrow and plantain useful for that when dried?


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## Old_Grey_Mare (Feb 18, 2006)

Dried yarrow is very effective.

As for plantain: " Many of its active constituents show antibacterial and antimicrobial properties, as well as being anti-inflammatory and antitoxic." From the following web page:
Plantain Leaf and Powder Profile


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

To stop bleeding, cobwebs are extremely effective.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Our ancestors used honey as a dressing, and they are starting to use it again because it works.

Now, antibiotic ointment works too and it is not sticky like honey is, but both do work. I am a beekeeper and even so I would far rather use tripple A than honey, because it is much pleasanter to use, but if I didn't have it I would certainly use honey!

Oh, yes. Eating honey does not work: you have to drip it onto the sore!


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## hoggie (Feb 11, 2007)

AngieM2 said:


> I wonder if the abundant use of antibodics in everything is not lowering our body's ability to fight off many of these bacteria/bugs.
> More thoughts after I think some more.


When my DD was a baby, she couldn't get a cold without it turning into a chest infection. Every time she had a cold she would end up with anti-biotics which I hate with a vengeance. The dr never gives them to me as he knows my feelings but, because DD was a baby she had them. Once she got to toddling and the infections were becoming a regular thing, I had a long chat with DD's godfather who is also a dr but who now concentrates on alternative therapies.

Long story short, the next time she had a cold I didn't take her to the dr. I sat it out. I stayed awake all night watching her temperature spike terrified in case I was doing the wrong thing. She had one awful night and was over it the next day. After that, each successive cold had a bit less effect on her and she is now the toughest kid I know in terms of fighting infection.

To the OP. I used to think I would like to have lived in the 19th century. Until I had DD and realised what it would have been like rearing a child without medicines.

But now I think that we would not be back to the pre anti-B days because we have something we don't. We have an understanding of bacteria and infections. They are no longer a mystery visitation from evil spirits. We know that malaria is not caused by some strange effect of marshes but by mosquitos etc etc. So, even without the medicines, we still have the knowledge, and with that we can fight from a different angle?

Not sure I have explained that quite right - hopefully someone will know what I mean


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## stickinthemud (Sep 10, 2003)

Thanks, everyone. Like Hoggie, I learned the lesson of not wishing to live in the 'good old days' when I became a mother. Now that there is a real chance of being forced to return to those pre-antibiotic days, I am glad to see there are more alternatives than I knew.


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## YuccaFlatsRanch (May 3, 2004)

I agree with all that has been said - I also have a really good arsenal of Fish antibiotics for a crisis situation when my family wouldn't be eating as well as they should and might have their resistance down. I do have and highly recommend the Nurses PDR for the correct dosages and the correct uses for the antibiotics. Fish antibiotics are just too inexpensive not to have them in your Preps.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Surprised I haven't seen Epsom-Salts mentioned.

There are many over the counter herbs that can help build up the immune system.....


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Every so often i keep getting emails from I think it is 'Off the grid news' (or some such) warning that the bought and paid for by big pharma, FDA is working on the big pharma instigated monster rules and regulations to ban the over the counter sales of supplements.......
Yes that means some thing as simple as vitamin C.
Things that big pharma can not put a patent on (for instance vit C ) they want outlawed.
Yes we know that would be a monster..........
But when has big pharma played by the rules and been nice to us peons....??

No I do not have any links about this . . . .
But for 'all' of us I hope some of you news junkies can find current info on this........
If you can by all means start a thread on the subject.....

Till then, like my self, get a little extra of your favorites

There is a lot of good ideas on this thread with erbs that can be home grown . . But no way can I 'home grow' the Saw Palmetto that i use for Prostate / Urinary.........

I am a lot less concerned about antibiotics availability than some of the stuff I take to boost the immune system...........


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## bajiay (Apr 8, 2008)

Turmeric is also a great wound healer. Make a paste out of it with water and apply and bandage. I did this with my daughter when she had a serious injury a couple of months ago. Worked wonders. Killed all of the infection in her leg. Doctor couldn't believe it. (After we had healed the wound she had to go for physical therapy.)


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

You put turmeric in the open wound? What kind of wound exactly? Did it burn?


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

Our doctor told us, when hubby cut his hand a couple of years ago, that the best method to clean out a wound is to let it bleed. He said too many people see blood and are in too much of a hurry to staunch the bleeding. He said that unless a wound is gushing/spurting blood (as in a major artery is cut) to let it bleed out for a bit. The blood itself washes clean the wound. He said if more people would do this, fewer people would need antibiotics for a wound infection.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

thequeensblessing said:


> Our doctor told us, when hubby cut his hand a couple of years ago, that the best method to clean out a wound is to let it bleed. He said too many people see blood and are in too much of a hurry to staunch the bleeding. He said that unless a wound is gushing/spurting blood (as in a major artery is cut) to let it bleed out for a bit. The blood itself washes clean the wound. He said if more people would do this, fewer people would need antibiotics for a wound infection.



I've been saying that for years. We don't use many bandaids.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Essential oils and herbs are awesome but you need to know what works and how to use it and I think it often takes herbs than pharm. Great stuff to study!


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

I raised five kids without running to doctors and giving them anti-biotics. Only time one child saw an emergency room was when she cut herself severely on broken glass and needed stitches. The last child had appendix removed in an emergency operation when he was ten years old. None of the others needed a doctor . For the odd cold or flu they rested, drank plenty of water and ate little. None of them had a cold or flu more than twice in their lives. That happened in the city when they were little and we did not have a healthy diet. Only three of five had chicken pox and none the measels. 

These kids were raised from six,eight, nine and eleven and the fifth from birth on garden raised organic food and home raised meat, milk and eggs. They flourished and as adults have been remarkably healthy despite not maintaining the diet they grew up eating!

My husband grew up eating healthy and not being sickly. I grew up sickly and improved with age as I changed my diet. So much of sickness is related to poor eating habits. Much can be reversed by changing how you eat. A person's immune system fights off alot if allowed to work naturally.

My kids also ate dirt, dog food and bugs when they were crawling around the ground before they could walk! It didn't hurt them but ofcoarse I stopped it as soon as I noticed. The point is some parents today protect their kids too much from their environment instead of letting their bodies build immunity. Sometimes people's good intentions is their worse enemy!


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## wagvan (Jan 29, 2011)

Breastmilk is a great topical antibiotic. Heck, it even kills cancer cells in petri dishes! It is great for scratches and scrapes and is awesome for earaches and pink eye. It works really well.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

AngieM2 said:


> I wonder if the abundant use of antibodics in everything is not lowering our body's ability to fight off many of these bacteria/bugs.
> More thoughts after I think some more.


Well Angie, 

Wonder no longer...

I cut my self all the time, even get dirt in the wounds.
Biggest Issue in the last 10 years vitamins!
not sure B types or C, took both.
but issue cleared up shortly after.

I even eat questionable foods.

you will go get a vaccine but refuse to live life?

many diseases I do not worry about.

Immunity was built by ancestors or I already suffered.

think about it...

Cause I'm not saying it.

p.s not aimed at Angie but her question


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