# Training and LGD to walk on a leash



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

How?....I took my boys to the vet Saturday. My runt boy 49 lbs..seems to not resist so much with the leash...he gives it a few jerks...but will walk a little ways...but still fights it.

However the big boy 60 lbs...hates it!!!...he will lay down...not moved dead weight...he wont even fight it....he just lays down and says NO!!.

I tug...he knows the command to come...and refuses.

On the bright side...he allows ne to shear him and the runt does NOT!!..

any advice?...I dont know how to make him walk on a leash...I am in fear of breaking him like a normal house dog...

What do I do?:bored:


----------



## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

You train an LGD to walk on a leash the same as you train any other dog. Even though an LGD may rarely leave the property, and is seldom in need of leash walking, you do have to go to the vet from time to time, so leash training is in everyone's best interest. Of course, it's easiest to do when they are little, but it's not impossible to train a bigger pup. 

Go out into the pasture or wherever he is most comfortable. Make sure the collar is snugly fitted so that he can't pull out of it. Put the leash on, offer his favorite treat, and let him come toward you. He will resist as first. When he's resisting, don't call him or talk to him. Praise him for any movement towards you and have a party when he comes in for his treat. Once he figures out that pulling back gets him nowhere and coming toward you is rewarding, the rest is just practice. Practice in different locations so he learns that no matter where he is, leash training still applies. Go for walks around the property, giving lots of treats for good leash behavior. He may still balk at the vet's office, but hopefully he will be conditioned to accept the leash by that time so he won't freak out over it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

You start as young as possible and *do it often*.

Wolf Flower covered the rest quite well


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I did start them young...and I failed ...and then I quit...because they were scared and I was scared of ruining them...so they just laid there...I obviously did it wrong...now I am starting over.

Hopefully I will be able to correct my mistake...if not...the vet will be a costly visit.


----------



## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You start as young as possible and *do it often*.


Yes, I agree with this totally. I put leashes on them when they are 2-3mo old and walk them a few times a week around the house or take them Bye-Bye. You want to teach them to like walks and car rides when they are little enough to handle. It's almost impossible to get 150lb dog in the car if they don't want to go. But it's easy to get a 15lb dog to go anywhere.


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

That is why the vet comes to me.  MY lgd is not a pet to be walked. He is there to guard my animals and would not go on a leash. By the way is about 160lb. He will not leave his livestock, no way, no how. 

I have to ask why you would want a true lgd on a leash?


----------



## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

Our Little Farm said:


> That is why the vet comes to me.  MY lgd is not a pet to be walked. He is there to guard my animals and would not go on a leash. By the way is about 160lb. He will not leave his livestock, no way, no how.
> 
> I have to ask why you would want a true lgd on a leash?


I have owned Anatolians for over 20 years now, Kuvasz for 8 and I cannot imagine why one wouldn't want a LGD to walk on leash. I sold a pup to a lady with two GP boys that had to be sedated every time she wanted to do anything with them. Clip them down, trim their nails, etc. When she got them the breeder told her that you didn't want to do anything with a LGD because it would some how ruin them as working dogs, so she didn't. When she got the pup from me I told her to let the dog be a working dog and don't make it into a house pet, but by all means teach the ---- thing to be handled. She has and she adores her girl and feels she is just as good if not better then the two GP boys. 

One never knows when you might need to do something with the dog and having one that you can reasonably and safely handle is the best thing for all involved. One of our Anatolians has hind dew claws (he came this way, I would have had it removed when he was neutered but his previous owner did not do that). We remove him from his field with his stock, my husband sits on the steps with him more or less in his lap and I take a Dremel tool to the dew claw and get it very short and smooth. If we couldn't handle him this would be a 40 mile round trip to the vet and whatever silly amount of money they would charge us for nipping the nail off. Not the way I want to spend my time, gas, and money.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Our Little Farm said:


> That is why the vet comes to me.  MY lgd is not a pet to be walked. He is there to guard my animals and would not go on a leash. By the way is about 160lb. He will not leave his livestock, no way, no how.
> 
> I have to ask why you would want a true lgd on a leash?


To only take them to the vet.
Other then that...I dont really have a valid justifiable reason..that I can think of:shrug:


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I have to ask why you would want a true lgd on a leash?


I have some pastures that aren't connected and it's easier to walk them than to load up a trailer.

It's also cheaper to take them to a Vet, although I *almost* never do it.
It would have to be something really serious


----------



## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

I confess, mine are not leash broke....however oddly enough, once they hit year old, guess what....both Anatolian/Maremma males will lead with collar and/or leash...peacefully, no resistance, like ---- show dogs! And....same with adult Pyrs...same with adult mastine, my 197 pd Patron, will lead with collar, peacefully...go figure... I can't explain...!!!! I do try to make them think it's 'their idea' too, with treats... Only worked on some, most - I gave up....! 

Meanwhile, I did try leash breaking my latest mastine female...she fights it so badly... Even tried tying her to a pole, so she realizes 'the leash is stronger than her' - to no avail. Go figure. I pay the vet to come out now, with as many dogs as I own making a vet run is nearly impossible.... It IS a good idea, if you have the time and patience to do it, more power to ya'all. Me, I do collar break all pups from about 7 weeks on. Get that over with at least, and they accept it fine. The leading however, I've not done real well. Just so weird, once they are mature, heck, they submit to it fine. Go figure....

One reason it is good however: ranch fire...what if.....place was threatened by range fire, I'd have to load all my dogs in my horse gooseneck trailer. Would probably have to bait them in with meat....doubt I could get them all to lead in. Some yes. Others no. But for emergencies like that, that would be arguement for leash training. Other than vet trips my dogs never leave place. Exception is two female older Pyrs who have 'town privledges'...they get to ride in car or truck when I do errands now and then...grin....and they do lead.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Boomer...will NOT move....I tried to place a leash on him at 8 wks...9...10...11...and so on...he flops down...to dead weight and will come for nothing....ziggy the runt...will give into treats and please ...please....I'm leaving now....but Boomer...NO...he is also my more aggressive one....he likes no strangers or sudden moves....the vet bent down to say Hello and he growled at her...I had to tell him it was okay.

They let me trim their toenails and fix owies...and shear off hair...by just laying there like a lump...ziggy the runt puts up a little fight...he's has to watch...so it makes him nervious....LOL


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Well my LGD will walk at my side and come the moment I call him. If I need to work on him, he will let me, no worries. Walking on a leash? Not needed.
As for vets, we have a farm vet who comes and sees our dogs at the same time as our livestock. Very reasonable.

I don't train our sheep, or pigs to walk on a leash and see no reason to do so with our LGD. No show rings for him!


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

As for fire, we had one once. I called my dog, he came. Immediately. I put him up. No problem.
I guess its all about training and what your LGD is used for. I don't want a dog that has to be put on a leash to do as he is told or obey.

I don't think its wrong to train an LGD to walk on a leash, just is not needed on the acreage we have, with the farm vet that come for livestock and because mine comes when called and stays.


----------



## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

Fowler said:


> he likes no strangers or sudden moves....the vet bent down to say Hello and he growled at her...I had to tell him it was okay


Meaning no disrespect towards your vet but, he/she is an idiot for bending down to say Hello to ANY dog, but especially to a LGD. We never allow our dogs to be handled by the vet clinic staff without our being there. 

I do not allow strangers to have contact with the dogs at all without my being between the dogs and the stranger and I strongly discourage people making "eyeballs" at them. It is a challenge and not a good idea at all. Not sure how old this dog is but you are going to have to be very careful with him as time goes on to be certain that he doesn't get out of control. 

IMO a big part of having a livestock guardian breed, in most situations, is keeping them safe from people and their stupidity and also your keeping stupid people safe from the dogs. If you live in the middle of nowhere on a thousand acres with no possibility of having strangers have contact with the dogs then this isn't as important, but lets face it-most of us don't have that luxury. 

When we had a litter of Kuv pups last year we had someone come to look at them. The husband was going to march right up and make contact with the sire and dam of the litter, in spite of the fact that both were standing with their feet on the fence barking at him. I had to stop him from doing it. He just assumed that the barking was just BS and bravado and that all he had to do was say "nice doggie" and they would stop and greet him in a friendly way. It is because of this kind of assumption that I think you need to protect the dog from people and people from the dog. Lawsuits, even if you win in the end, are not fun and if your dog nails someone who was being stupid you are still going to have to deal with the fall out.


----------



## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Oregon Julie said:


> Meaning no disrespect towards your vet but, he/she is an idiot for bending down to say Hello to ANY dog, but especially to a LGD. We never allow our dogs to be handled by the vet clinic staff without our being there.
> 
> I do not allow strangers to have contact with the dogs at all without my being between the dogs and the stranger and I strongly discourage people making "eyeballs" at them. It is a challenge and not a good idea at all. Not sure how old this dog is but you are going to have to be very careful with him as time goes on to be certain that he doesn't get out of control.
> 
> ...


I agree with you...it was the vet assistant...and the actual vet said good boy that's what he's suppose to do.
She (the vet)...(I also have he's but not Saturday) tells me to hold his head while rubbing his chest..and talking to him while she gives a shot...I did notice her assistant looking at him directly as she squated down...Hmmm ...good to know....

Also she caught me off guard...because I was talking to the vet.

I am new to training an LGD...like I've stated...I have one that is more agressive than the other...but both back each other up.

Thanks


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

> I do not allow strangers to have contact with the dogs at all without my being between the dogs and the stranger


I have to introduce my dogs to friends that come visit and need to go in the pasture to go see the pigs/pond whatever. If I don't he acts totally different.

After seeing him with a bear, I know what he can do. I make sure visitors are safe and have put him up when very young children are here. 

He is always on guard. He is not a pet and would not take kindly to a leash and walkies away from his flock/herd. 

Sounds like the vets assistant needs to learn a thing or two!


----------



## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Our Little Farm said:


> After seeing him with a bear, I know what he can do. I make sure visitors are safe and have put him up when very young children are here.


Mine are GP, and they love all little kids, and are friendly to people just due to the breed. But they can switch from being a happy, lazy, friendly dog to being very angry, even vicious in a split second. I saw my male attack a cat that had wondered up once, kill it in a split second change. And the one female, is that way with strange dogs, especially med-large dogs. (She tends to ignore the little ones.) They will rip apart skunks or possums, moles, etc It's almost scary to see how fast the personality can change and how much they notice even when they are laying there semi-sleeping. But, you know, these same dogs, can be laid on by my grand daughter, lick a rabbit, even sleep with them in the colony shed, be friendly towards humans, let chickens walk all over them with not even a twitch, etc. My 4yo granddaughter can put a leash on them and walk them all over with no issues at all. It's just wild animals or strange animals that they change towards in a split second.


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Ours is soppy as can be around our children and other children, but I am talking about certain children that do not respect animals at all, and will chase after the sheep etc. So when these certain children arrive, our LGD goes away and I try and teach them right from wrong, which is hard when it's new to them. 

I don't 'think' he would ever hurt one, but if he felt they were attacking his flock, them who knows? I don't want to take the chance. Mine is larger than the GP.


----------



## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I leash trained my grt pyr and my anatolian when they were puppies because it just never occured to me not to~ and I really think it's a good idea. They are not as well trained as my house dogs~ but they have a solid sit, stay and come on or off lead. The sit is more of a sit or lay down as long as your butt winds up on the ground. I also trained both LGDs and every dog on my property to come to a bell. I have a big bell on the fence post~ I only ring it when I have treats in my hand. Every dog that comes to the bell gets a treat EVERY time. If I can't find one of my dogs~ I get a fist full of treats and start ringing that bell~ they can't help themselves they are right there for thier goody!

I really think your going to be happier in the long run if you put the work in now to teach those dogs a solid sit, stay and come on or off lead, and get yourself a bell or an air horn for finding dogs that may have wondered or become distracted. Get a really irresistible treat and spend 20 min a day with each dog. They are smart and they want to please you. They'll get it eventually and you'll be able to call your dogs or tell you dogs to sit and stay on or off a lead~ it won't hurt them at all and it may save their lives if something unforeseen should ever occur.


----------



## HappyFarmer (Jun 17, 2006)

To answer the OP's question... 

a come-along may work. You might want to use a choke collar rather than a belt-type collar, attach the lead, then use a 2nd lead round their rear-end. Pull on both simultaneously, release pressure when the dog moves forward & reward him.

Also (and I'm not a big fan of these but have used them with problem dogs) you can buy one of those spiked training collars, the spikes apply pressure when pulled.

I agree the dogs should be leash trained at a young age. There are many reasons why, but top on my list is going to the vet etc., but also what if heaven forbid I ever sold that dog? The new owner would want and need the dog leash trained. 

Also, again heaven forbid, IF there was a fire or an emergency, I highly doubt my dogs would listen to me should my stock be threatened. My dogs go into overdrive, come heck or high water they WILL protect my stock. Me, although alpha, will not be able to call them off if there is a clear and present right-now-they-need-protecting danger. It is the nature of the breed and the independence that makes them such good protectors. (before anyone states I havn't control over my dogs, yes I have called them off of the attack, just not sure I would be able to call them off from protecting one of their goats that is in distress).

HF


----------



## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

"Boomer...will NOT move....I tried to place a leash on him at 8 wks...9...10...11...and so on...he flops down...to dead weight and will come for nothing"


bring him in the house. put a leash on him...preferably a chain so if he chews on it... nothing happens and after a fashion.. he will quit. If you put a leather or nylon leash on him and he chews through it.. guess what he just learned!

leave the chain on him while in the house. ignore him. sooner or later he will get up to drink water or eat. Step over him if you must.

Once you clip the leash on, treat him. Don't make a fuss over the leash. if he throws himself down, step over him. When it is time to take him out for the night..not sure how you are handling the dogs.... remove the leash and take him out.

Remember your dogs are smarter then a 5th grader! you have to out smart them at every turn! boomer has manipulated you into thinking he can't be leashed... it worked!

It is a dog! a smart dog... but a dog!

I went to visit my Mother, her neighbor has a young 7 month old dog. I am told he will not walk on a leash, throws himself down, pulls, and that is that!

I asked her if she wanted him to walk on a leash, she handed me the leash.. I clipped it on and before he could do anything or realized he had a leash on, I immediately moved forward! In a silly high pitched excited voice, I talked to the dog "Fritz" oh Fritz... good boy Fritz, come on Fritz.. hurry.. and so on.

It never dawned on me the dog was scared, couldn't or wouldn't walk on a leash! I acted as a matter of fact... he is going to walk on this leash.

you will not ruin your dog! in spite of all the crap people put out there... your dog is a dog! he needs to be touched... after all, in a pack there is touching! you are the pack leader!!! as a pack leader I LEAD! go lay down, stay with the livestock! this all takes leadership on your part.. a clear and definitive goals you have established.

just a few pix you may enjoy
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPB3w7rw08c&feature=related[/ame]


----------



## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

HappyFarmer said:


> To answer the OP's question...
> 
> a come-along may work. You might want to use a choke collar rather than a belt-type collar, attach the lead, then use a 2nd lead round their rear-end. Pull on both simultaneously, release pressure when the dog moves forward & reward him.
> 
> ...


yeah, what Happy Farmer said!


----------

