# Selling privately vs. Realtor



## Pheasant283 (Mar 24, 2010)

Getting ready to list my house. Is it better to try and sell it myself and save a little $. Or is it best to go thru a realtor? Just wondering what others have experienced.


----------



## Tinker (Apr 5, 2004)

We have done both. In todays market, I would go with a realtor. It will cost you more, but you will get much more exposure and marketing. Also, when selling yourself, you have to be cautious of getting all the paperwork done properly, and you will have people calling and stopping in at all hours. Many are just wanting to check out your place, which is a bit scarey. With the realtor, you don't have to deal with any of that, all you need to do is keep the place neat & tidy.

Good luck with your sale, whatever you decide.

I would recommend you interview at least 3 realtors, to find one you are comfortable with, and to get an idea of what they each think as a listing price.


----------



## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

You may net more with a realtor. A good realtor will earn it, keep you informed, screen and qualify. Best wishes.


----------



## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

You might just as well get a realtor. The market is bad, and any buyer is going to know that you are not paying a commission so will want to reduce the price by the going percentage a realtor will get. You will want to get your property on MLS as soon as possible and many realtors will not show a FSBO.


----------



## Forestdude (Jun 9, 2012)

I sold my last house on my own, and it wasn't a bad experience by any means. I had a set price, put an ad in the local paper, and a sign and flyers in the yard. I did get some interesting phone calls and the occasional people who thought they'd just stop by to look without calling first. All in all, I'll use a realtor next time. 

One thing I'll say about choosing a realtor though...I'd check out their website and see if I liked it. I'm always looking at the web for real estate and I would imagine other potential buyers do too. There is one realty company here that will put up a sign on some land and never list it on their website. A simple click with some basic information about the place and maybe some pictures seems to be very helpful as to whether I'd be interested or not.


----------



## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Unless you know the person you're selling to, I'd use a Realtor. Remember that commercial that said, "I don't know enough to know that I don't know"? This.

And always hire a lawyer whether you go through an agency or not.


----------



## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

Negotiate on a fee before you sign papers , but go with a realtor........


----------



## Pheasant283 (Mar 24, 2010)

These are all some good pointers and think I am going to lean towards going with a realtor. Just have a few finishing touches I am finishing up in the house which I didnt finish 3 yrs ago when I remodeled, trim and minor touch ups then will put her on the market, & start to seriously look for an acreage.


----------



## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

I too have done it both ways.

I agree that in a seller's market, do your research and do it yourself.

In a buyer's market, I would be inclined to get professional help!


Tim


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

With the changes in technology, you get an incredible amount of exposure when you list your property with a Realtor, which doesn't cost you a cent unless your home sells.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

I would hire a Realtor only if I were unsuccessful in selling it myself.

Thus far, that hasn't been necessary. 

You can buy an awful lot of marketing (newspaper ads, flyers, etc.) for the thousands of dollars you'd spend on a Realtor's commission. And you can afford to come down on your price a bit more, if need be, because you don't have to give the Realtor a cut. 

Do your own comparative market analysis by looking at other properties for sale in your area. Realtor.com is handy for this. Zillow will show you the actual selling prices of recently-sold properties. 

Then whip your home into shape ... you'll need to do this whether or not you hire a Realtor. 

Be ready to show your house at the drop of a hat. (You probably should do this even if you hire a Realtor.) On the day I put my next-to-last house up for sale, I was pounding in a sign post at the end of the road when a man pulled up in a car and started asking questions. He wanted to see the house right then and there, and I showed it to him. He didn't end up being the buyer, but you just never know! 

You can do a better job telling people all the great things about your property than any Realtor can. (Oftentimes the Realtor showing your property won't even be the listing agent --in which case they've probably never seen the property before and don't know anything about it except what's on the MLS sheet.)

Of course, personality comes into play. If you're nervous about having strangers in your house, don't want to spend your day off fielding phone inquiries, etc., a FSBO is not for you. Me, I always kinda enjoyed selling my houses. It never took me more than 2 weeks to find a buyer.


----------



## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

For most sellers in today's market, flyers, newpaper ads, open houses, etc... are going to cost you time and money, and have little chance of success. Buyers are learning most of what they need to know, and narrowing their selections down before the shop, by doing the very same thing you are doing now. Staring at your computer screen. I build and sell a few new homes a year. For me, a realtor is a requirement. My typical buyer does their own search and finds a few homes that the think will work. They contact a realtor to spend some time walking through their selections. They then take what they learn, go back to the computer and research some more. After cycles of research, viewing properties, and gathering info. from the realtor, they are ready to make an offer. Unfortunately, unless you are in a real hot market, most FSBOs are cut out of the loop. The other issue with a slow market is that you are going to be far more exposed to clowns and 'investors' that if you had it listed with an agent. There is a mindset that a "by owner" property is either going to be real cheap, which brings out the clowns who want you to give it away, or that you are in distress, and need a guy with "we buy houses" billboards all over to town, to come to your rescue. I'm certianly not saying that you are going to fail at selling it yourself, I have succeeded many times in doing so myself. It's just an ugly time to take a shot at it, and if you do, I would put a time limit on the effort and be honest with how well it's going.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

When I was selling FSBO, I had a buyer's agent who wanted to show my property to a client she thought might be interested in it. We worked out a deal that I would sign a 1-day listing for a (IIRC) 1% commission if her client bought the house. I agreed but they didn't make an offer, oh well, someone else did and I kept that 1% for myself.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

tarbe said:


> I too have done it both ways.
> 
> I agree that in a seller's market, do your research and do it yourself.
> 
> ...


In many areas of the Country, it is a buyers market. Here locally, FSBO properties sell for less, usually substantially less. Agents won't show them unless they will be paid by securing a buyer. So, your inclination is good.

I work for a company that was started in 1929 and am very happy working with such a great team of professionals. Every week, we tour every new office listing. We work together as a team to get our co listings sold. Every listing is on the MLS, which account for most properties sold, with exposure that is worldwide, in addition we market through dozens of sites, advertise in re mags, maintain an office in town, with our listings featured on flyers out front. We install lockboxes for security, which records every Agent showing. Our sign posts also include flyers. Our contracts are standard ones, written by Attys, and are approved by WA state.

Here, FSBO's take longer, sell for far less, and there isn't much benefit to the seller. As a Buyers Agent, my job is to get the best deal on the purchase I can find for my clients. I make the same if I bring a Buyer for a FSBO, so I don't hesitate to show them. My Clients usually have a huge advantage in negotiation, but most importantly, their contract... I will only use standardized Purchase and Sale Agreement, with Addenda, OR work with an Atty directly, who represents the Seller.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

I'll add a bit more since I have time while waiting for my husband to get ready to go to town. 

I suspect the two places that many FSBO sellers go wrong is:

1) Setting the price. You _must_ do a comparative analysis of what is on the market _now_ and has sold recently. It doesn't matter what your house was worth in 2002, or the improvements you've made, or even what you owe on it -- the price will be set by what the market will bear _now._

Remember that every potential buyer who looks at your house will be comparing it to all the other houses for sale in the same demographic, so you'd better do that, too! Remember that there is a limited number of buyers in a particular market at any given time ... your job is to snag one. Think about it -- if there's another 3-bedroom, 2-bathroom house for sale 5 miles away, but the kitchen has been updated while yours has not, and the price is $5,000 less than you're planning to ask, why would someone buy your house instead? If you can't think of a compelling reason, you may be in trouble. :teehee:

2) FSBO sellers don't realize and capitalize on the value of a fresh listing. When a house is on the market for months on end, people perceive (fairly or not) that there's something wrong with it. Your job is to find a buyer as quickly as possible, because every day your house sits on the market, it becomes slightly less attractive and desirable. 

So you need to launch your sales campaign in an organized manner. Make all the necessary improvements BEFORE you pound that sign in the lawn. Plan your marketing strategy and implement it simultaneously. Don't hang flyers one week, then -- if that doesn't work -- run a newspaper ad the next. NO! Have everything ready to go at once -- signs, flyers, print ads, Craigslist, etc. Have an open house right away ... when people drive by a house that's newly listed for sale, they're naturally curious. Six months later ... not so much. Remember that even tire-kickers may have a friend or relative looking for a house. Never let anyone leave without taking a flyer!


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Agents won't show them unless they will be paid by securing a buyer.





> I make the same if I bring a Buyer for a FSBO, so I don't hesitate to show them.


Umm, so which is it? Agents are reluctant, or they don't hesitate?


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

willow_girl said:


> Umm, so which is it? Agents are reluctant, or they don't hesitate?


Both statements are true. I will show a FSBO only if I will be paid for securing a buyer, then do so without hesitation. However, I will not show FSBO if I will not be paid for securing the buyer.

A few things to consider...

Sales Comps which were the result of Agent Listings are not an accurate value to base a FSBO on. Appraisers take into consideration if a property is a FSBO. This is true here, and likely elsewhere.

In a Buyers market, FSBO's here sell for less than the differential. The public, by and large, is saavy enough to know the FSBO Seller isn't paying a commission unless there is an Agent involved.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Both statements are true. I will show a FSBO only if I will be paid for securing a buyer, then do so without hesitation. However, I will not show FSBO if I will not be paid for securing the buyer.


That's reasonable. I can't imagine anyone would expect you to do otherwise.



> In a Buyers market, FSBO's here sell for less than the differential. The public, by and large, is saavy enough to know the FSBO Seller isn't paying a commission unless there is an Agent involved.


But if you're not paying an agent, you can afford to come down on the price, which should make your property more competitively priced than ones listed with a Realtor.

After all, the buyer is looking at the price he'll have to pay -- he doesn't really care how much is going to the agent and how much to the seller. He just wants to make the best deal he can.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

willow_girl said:


> That's reasonable. I can't imagine anyone would expect you to do otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All Buyers want the best deal. The Buyer's Agent is supposed to negotiate to get the lowest price, while the Seller's Agent is supposed to get the highest price for the Seller. The one with the best negotiator is the winner in the end. Here, with a terrible market, I negotiated $75,000 more than the assessed value on the Seller's property, but it took me six months (same Buyers who blew through 2 Agents). I did my job, and those Sellers were flat thrilled with me! 

Yes, it is a choice, but good for folks to know the facts. I am being honest on this thread, as the OP wanted advice. I have a lot of experience representing Sellers and Buyers, even negotiating my own properties.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> All Buyers want the best deal. The Buyer's Agent is supposed to negotiate to get the lowest price, while the Seller's Agent is supposed to get the highest price for the Seller. The one with the best negotiator is the winner in the end.


Generally speaking, that's true, but the FSBO seller and the Realtor-represented seller are not starting out on a level playing field. The seller of a $250,000 house who uses a Realtor at 6% commission knows he's going to pay his agent about $15,000. That is probably going to leave him a lot less room at the negotiating table than the FSBO seller whose only expense has been a couple hundred bucks in advertising fees. 

But of course, if you're uncomfortable haggling with people, by all means, hire an agent to represent you! 

Some of us love the art of the deal, though. 

Last house I sold was in Michigan in 2007, and I got $20,000 more for it than I'd paid in 2001. I actually got a full-price offer ... I'd padded the asking price a bit, expecting to make concessions, but my buyer didn't haggle. Which was fine with me.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

WG, good for you! You must have been selling in a decent market.

When I got $75,000 more for my Clients than their assessment, it was an incredible Buyer's market, and our area was very depressed. I was called repeatedly be Appraisers asking how I was able to negotiate that price. It has to with being taught effective negotiation by some of the best in the business.

Folks, you bet you can sell your own house, but if you are in a Buyer's MKT, don't expect to make out like WG did. That would be unrealistic. Still, it is possible, just highly unlikely.

There are so many houses on the market here, the Buyers are having a heyday, much to the dismay of the Sellers.

I have been told about some pretty sad experiences FSBO Sellers have had, primarily being ignorant of basic real estate law. I have been on both sides and would never sell a property of mine without a co-Agent. Owners can't help not being able to maintain the objectivity needed for the most effective and least liable risk.

But, since I will be likely debated, there are rare individuals who can do it.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Folks, you bet you can sell your own house, but if you are in a Buyer's MKT, don't expect to make out like WG did. That would be unrealistic. Still, it is possible, just highly unlikely.


Why not? I'm no rocket scientist. The house I sold before that, I'd only lived in for a year, and I sold it for $5,000 more than I'd paid for it, and had a buyer lined up in within 2 weeks.

Mostly it's common sense. Do your homework and set your asking price realistically; design and execute a marketing plan; and do the things necessary to make your house marketable (cleaning, decluttering, enhancing curb appeal, etc.). Basically, you're doing what a Realtor would do, or would advise you to do -- you're just not paying one to do it for you.

I'm not saying Realtors don't work for their money -- they do. But you can do the work yourself (it's not rocket science) and keep that money in your own pocket if you choose.


----------



## wharton (Oct 9, 2011)

willow_girl said:


> Why not? I'm no rocket scientist. The house I sold before that, I'd only lived in for a year, and I sold it for $5,000 more than I'd paid for it, and had a buyer lined up in within 2 weeks.
> 
> Mostly it's common sense. Do your homework and set your asking price realistically; design and execute a marketing plan; and do the things necessary to make your house marketable (cleaning, decluttering, enhancing curb appeal, etc.). Basically, you're doing what a Realtor would do, or would advise you to do -- you're just not paying one to do it for you.
> 
> I'm not saying Realtors don't work for their money -- they do. But you can do the work yourself (it's not rocket science) and keep that money in your own pocket if you choose.


 I think the problem here is that if you're not in the business, it's really hard to imagine how stunningly different a realtor's job is, compared to when you sold your last place. Taking any experience you have, based on a transaction that happened in 2007 and attempting to apply it to current conditions, just doesn't work. In 2007 my average open house generated 17 individual sets of shoppers in an afternoon. Currently, in the same neighborhood, there are nice sunny Saturday afternoons where NOBODY shows up. The whole process of finding buyers, and actually closing a deal is so different that it was before the collapse that it's hard to believe. Houses don't appraise because the appraiser has zero knowledge of the local market. Buyers get a pre-approval pulled since they were just looking at a new car, and the slippery sales-lizard managed to trick them into allowing him to pull a credit check. Deals collapsing because the area, or HOA has too many REOs, and the underwriters kill the deal, and on and on........... If you were sucessful in the past, great. If anybody wants to give it a shot, I wish them the best. But, in many places this is the worst market in nearly a century. If you go the FSBO route and you hear nothing but crickets in 4-6 weeks of trying, then it's time to regroup. Like Lori is trying to explain, the is a ton of inventory for any realtor to show. They have a lot of very willing sellers, buyers that are VERY well educated in current values, and no need to bother with FSBO sellers. The other issue that Lori has gently skirted here is that many sellers and buyers can be exceptionally difficult to work with. As a realtor, when you go digging through the FSBO woodpile, you would be surprised how high the percentage of difficult, to flat out nutz, folks you find. When things were booming I met FSBO sellers that were absolutely facinating. Willing to leave huge dollars on the table, as long as they avoided a commission. Now it's folk who are going to get what their place is "worth", and not let those dishonest agents give it away. There is money to be saved selling it yourself, and good deals to be had by buying a FSBO, but I can understand why realtors stay away, and many FSBO sellers end up hurting themselves in the end.


----------



## Tinker (Apr 5, 2004)

Quoting Lori:

"When I got $75,000 more for my Clients than their assessment, it was an incredible Buyer's market, and our area was very depressed. I was called repeatedly be Appraisers asking how I was able to negotiate that price. It has to with being taught effective negotiation by some of the best in the business."

So, if this buyer comes back to you in 2 years & wants to sell, what do you tell him? Maybe he doesn't have 6 months to wait for a seller who will pay way above market value. Either he wanted this place really bad, or was from out of the area and unaware of value in your area.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Tinker said:


> Quoting Lori:
> 
> "When I got $75,000 more for my Clients than their assessment, it was an incredible Buyer's market, and our area was very depressed. I was called repeatedly be Appraisers asking how I was able to negotiate that price. It has to with being taught effective negotiation by some of the best in the business."
> 
> So, if this buyer comes back to you in 2 years & wants to sell, what do you tell him? Maybe he doesn't have 6 months to wait for a seller who will pay way above market value. Either he wanted this place really bad, or was from out of the area and unaware of value in your area.



Isn't this where due diligence comes into play?


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Wharton, excellent assessment!


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Tinker said:


> Quoting Lori:
> 
> "When I got $75,000 more for my Clients than their assessment, it was an incredible Buyer's market, and our area was very depressed. I was called repeatedly be Appraisers asking how I was able to negotiate that price. It has to with being taught effective negotiation by some of the best in the business."
> 
> So, if this buyer comes back to you in 2 years & wants to sell, what do you tell him? Maybe he doesn't have 6 months to wait for a seller who will pay way above market value. Either he wanted this place really bad, or was from out of the area and unaware of value in your area.


Every Client is in different circumstances. My Clients were getting a divorce, wanted to get as much as they could out of their property, but they were in no hurry. My Clients dictate what their service needs are. It is my job to do the work necessary.

The property was unique, 7 acres, cleared, fenced, with fruit trees, bluberry bushes, a garden area, but the house was AMAZING! This ranch style home was incredibly well maintained, has radiant heat, is wired for lights in a very functional, but creative way. Also, has a full basement. It is at the end of a private road, private, but just minutes to the waterfront. The home isn't fancy, but finished with high end materials. There wasn't another property like it on the market in our community (where the Buyers had to be).

BTW, I have a lot of experience working with Appraisers, was a Loan Officer for 5 years, too. Since Assessors only see the exterior, they would not be able to base their value on what they couldn't see. I knew this home would appraise higher, and IT DID!


----------



## Tinker (Apr 5, 2004)

Sorry Lori, my bad---I thought it was $75,000 above apraised value, not assessed. Property here is usually assessed way below market value, so I understand now. Sorry!


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Here, unfortunately, most properties are selling at Assessment Value, and many Appraisals are matching that value. The more Short Sales and REO's sell for below Market Value? This is driving values down even more, due to it being so common here.


----------



## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

This is my thought on the matter.

The majority of people buying a house will not buy very many houses in their lifetime. They are uncertain about the procedure, so they go straight to a real estate agent to get professional advice.

They are not going to go out on their own and buy a FSBO because they are not sure how the whole thing works. So most of the buyers are with agents and they are not available for your property if you are doing FSBO.

That being said, I have one right now FSBO. What I get are lots of inquiries from people with no money and their credit in the toilet, that figure since it is a for sale by owner, that they can move in with zero down, come up with the down payment in a year or two. Pay me off in 10 years and 100% of their rent payment will count towards paying off what they owe.

You get to talk to a lot of unrealistic people if you are trying to sell a house on your own. Lots of people seem to think "for sale by owner" means exactly the same thing as "owner will carry". But they won't tell you that they don't have a nickel to their name until they have wasted a whole lot of your time.


----------



## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

oregon woodsmok said:


> This is my thought on the matter.
> 
> The majority of people buying a house will not buy very many houses in their lifetime. They are uncertain about the procedure, so they go straight to a real estate agent to get professional advice.
> 
> ...


Good points made. In addition, professional Agents don't show properties to Clients, without them being pre-approved. So, when they show, no one's time is being wasted.

Last time I checked the stats, Buyer purchases thru Realtors, were in the high 90%s, with a very low % buying without representation.

During my last listing appointment, the man told me he had no experience selling a home, and was grateful to be able to work with me.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Sorry Lori, my bad---I thought it was $75,000 above apraised value, not assessed. Property here is usually assessed way below market value, so I understand now. Sorry!


Even assessed values can be a slippery thing, in my experience.

When I bought the farm I have now, I looked long and hard to find some undeveloped acreage. This area has been settled since the 1790s, so it's a scarce commodity.

I finally found a FSBO via an Internet ad that had been placed a year and a half earlier. I contacted the owners, and miraculously, the property still was for sale! I think they had given up on selling it. (They had moved and were living in another state.) The 4 acres had electricity, a well, septic system, trashed mobile home and a couple of outbuildings on it. 

The price was about half of any comparable properties I'd looked at. Even so, the first appraisal came in at roughly half the negotiated sale price, so the bank wasn't going to approve the loan. I wasn't about to give up, though -- I really wanted this property, and the price didn't seem out of line to me in an area where vacant land (if you can find it) goes for $10,000 an acre. 

So I went back to the seller, who advised me that an earlier prospective buyer had used a different appraiser, who pegged the property at roughly the sale price. (Their deal fell through because they couldn't get financed.) I asked the bank if we could try again with this appraiser; bank said yes; second appraisal came in right on target, and I closed the loan a short time later. 

So, was the property worth $25,000 or $50,000? Depends on which appraiser you ask. :shrug:


----------



## rickfrosty (Jun 19, 2008)

Pheasant283 said:


> Getting ready to list my house. Is it better to try and sell it myself and save a little $. Or is it best to go thru a realtor? Just wondering what others have experienced.


 People don't realise how bad the market is (in most places).
Agencies put all details/pictures on the Multiple Listing Sysetm for all local brokers to use, goes automatically to realtor.com for the public use - AND most places have it set up that the info will also go out to all sorts of online search engines.
Soooo, if it is difficult for us to sell your house it may be almost impossible you you to sell it ?
There is in almost all areas an immense inventory of unsold places.
If your house is on a road w/a lot of exposure then a sign on the lawn might possibly snag a buyer IF your price is low and the house is all squared away, but here at least even owner-sellers must by law give all proper disclosures on everything about the house to any prospective buyer, just like we must.
AND you are on your own as to who your FSBO sign may be inviting the attention of ?


----------

