# Question for some hunters...



## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

I am a hunter and so this is NOT an attack on hunting. I am seeking genuine answers to a question and I am NOT being judgmental, so please do not interpret my inquiry as an insult. I hunt small game and deer. I'd take a turkey if I ever got the chance. I am in favor of hunting those critters. Now we have many fox on my property. I have had a number of chances to kill them, but never have. I have seen coyote, too, and never shoot them, because for me if I'm not going to eat it I won't kill it. I see many folks (both here on this site, and who live near my property) who shoot fox and coyote. I'm certain that those who have chickens, or other livestock are probably motivated to kill 'yotes to protect their investment...aside from that though, and if you don't have sheep or goats or chickens, what is your reason for going after fox and 'yotes? I used to trap when I was a kid. Their pelts are beautiful...are some of you processing their pelts? Just wondering what your reasons are for pursuing animals you're not intending to eat.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

A few reasons I hunt coyotes. Just this week on a Detroit TV news program was a story about a pair of coyotes in a suburb where you can not discharge a fire arm. They are killing peoples pets they let out of the house to do their bussiness. Mothers there are worried about letting young children out to play in their yards too, I wouldn't worry over that so much my self.
But where I live we worry about our pets becoming food for hungry coyotes, I live in a rual farm area to so we have little critters being born in the spring not to mention the fawns, turkeys and other game animals coyotes kill and eat even eggs. You seldom see any rabbits in the over grown farm fields now nor phesants for that matter.

I hunt them and leave them for food for other little critters. The hides don't even bring enough at fur sales to pay for the time skinning them let alone the time to properly care for them. It is all so a good way to keep your hunting skills honed.

 Al


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

alleyyooper said:


> You seldom see any rabbits in the over grown farm fields now nor phesants for that matter.


I have to disagree about the pheasants. Here is why. During a particular period of time a coyote may eat a pheasant, but it will also eat a ****, a skunk, and a possum, and coyotes also drive the fox out. Sure we have lost a pheasant, but we have also eliminated 4 of the greatest pheasant predators, resulting in a net gain for the pheasant population.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

I think people just enjoy the act of hunting them, they come up with reasons like 'they kill pets' or 'they reduce small game' to make it sound like they are obliged to do it.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

tinknal said:


> I have to disagree about the pheasants. Here is why. During a particular period of time a coyote may eat a pheasant, but it will also eat a ****, a skunk, and a possum, and coyotes also drive the fox out. Sure we have lost a pheasant, but we have also eliminated 4 of the greatest pheasant predators, resulting in a net gain for the pheasant population.


depends too on the coyote population. if it's too high & not being checked somehow, eventually the pheasants disappear too.


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

I don't always kill predators but I often will if given the opportunity. To me it is a matter of "checks and balances". When fur prices were up, folks made full use of them and their numbers were lower. Once fur prices tanked, their numbers dramatically increased. As their numbers increased, prey animals decreased and (at least here) they ran out of their preferred foods. I notices two things happen when that occurred. The predators had to switch to other food sources such as domestic animals/chickens etc.. and disease (mainly distemper but some rabies incidents) took over. The domestic animal issue was easy enough to adapt to by better fencing and operational changes (don't let the dog outside the yard). The disease one was tougher. I can vaccinate my pets but we don't vaccinate people. Watching a raccoon, coyote or fox go through the horrible death of distemper is tough. Nature was "culling the herd" and it wasn't pretty. Seems to run in five yr cycles with a build up'of prey species followed by a sharp decline.... When I begin to see predators feeding at odd times and roaming during the day, I know the following summer will be a crash so I begin taking out some of the predatos so the remaining ones aren't having as tough a time making a living.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

I think a lot of us hunt coyotes because it is a challenge to call them in. And once you get one, yes, you skin it and sell the pelt. At least up here. Our western pelts have been averaging 60 bucks or so at the nafa auction. Not a bad return for a .20 cent shell, a10 dollar predator call that will last for 50 years!

It is part of a balance. I have shot many coyotes with mange over the years. They only seem to have mange, when the price of pelts is low, because then they are not pursued, and are therefore overpopulating, and spreading disease. And when coyotes are jumping over your chicken fence while standing 30 feet away upwind of them, they need to be taken out. I don't often target them outside of the prime fur months, but at the same time, if they are kept thinned down, they will maintain a fear of humans, and this is the main reason that I believe people should have the right to hunt them whenever. If they maintain a healthy respect for humans, they maintain their wildness, and don't become tame, city dwelling pet catchers, brazen, mid day chicken stealers, etc..

Where I am, coyotes are generally wild, not half tame derelicts that come up on my steps to eat dog food like I hear they do in small communities. They hunt mice, clean up the landscape of carrion, which is great! They are fearful of humans because they are hunted, take this away, and conflicts appear. This goes for bears, etc. as well. wild animals should maintain their wildness, and hunting them promotes this wildness.

As well as being funner than heck seeing a coyote come into the call on a mission, realizing 60 or so dollars from the pelt is a big bonus. Saving chickens in the long run is another, and keeping them wild, something many fail to think about, is perhaps the most important.

Think about the latest bear mauling, coyote attack, etc. Now where did it occur? Chances are, it occured in a place where hunting is banned. National parks, cities, towns. You never hear of conflicts with wildlife in rural Saskatchewan! The animals out here are wild, just as they should be. And there is only one thing I can think of that makes them that way. A bit of lead in the air at times, steel in the ground, or wires at neck height!

Dale


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

pheasantplucker said:


> I am a hunter and so this is NOT an attack on hunting. I am seeking genuine answers to a question and I am NOT being judgmental, so please do not interpret my inquiry as an insult. I hunt small game and deer. I'd take a turkey if I ever got the chance. I am in favor of hunting those critters. Now we have many fox on my property. I have had a number of chances to kill them, but never have. I have seen coyote, too, and never shoot them, because for me if I'm not going to eat it I won't kill it. I see many folks (both here on this site, and who live near my property) who shoot fox and coyote. I'm certain that those who have chickens, or other livestock are probably motivated to kill 'yotes to protect their investment...aside from that though, and if you don't have sheep or goats or chickens, what is your reason for going after fox and 'yotes? I used to trap when I was a kid. Their pelts are beautiful...are some of you processing their pelts? *Just wondering what your reasons are for pursuing animals you're not intending to eat*.


who says i'm not. boiled until tender & then barbecued, coyote tastes like dog w/a texture & flavor similar to beef.
from a management perspective
contrary to what PETAphiles would have us believe, coyotes don't go hey you're the last two rabbits in a 50 mile radius so i'm gonna give you a pass & go 10 miles away to dig up voles. nope they just kill & mostly (but not always) eat the rabbits. they also don't go, hey it's getting crowded so i'm gonna forego screwing this year & skip making pups.
humans are the ONLY predators that CAN make decisions like that.
left to their own devices ALL animals overpopulate, over eat & then die horrible deaths from starvation & disease. human intervention is the ONLY way of achieving the balance that so many ignorant people believe exists in nature.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

Our state biologist tells us to shoot 'yotes to reduce predation on deer fawns (the property in question is managed to maximize the quality of the deer hunting).

Never have seen a fox on this place. Doubt I would shoot one if I did...I don't imagine they are near the threat to a deer fawn that a 'yote is.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I only kill animals for a reason. It might be for food and it might be to protect my food supply. I don't kill for sport. I don't kill an animal just because it is a predator. If it don't bother me it is safe.
Just personally but I think the common house cat is about the worst predator there is.


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## woodsrunner (Nov 28, 2003)

Pops2 hit the nail on the head.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

tarbe said:


> Our state biologist tells us to shoot 'yotes to reduce predation on deer fawns (the property in question is managed to maximize the quality of the deer hunting).


Exactly why I DON'T hunt them and don't allow them to be shot on my property unless I see mange or if a neighbour is chasing a problem, which rarely happens. Anything that reduces the population of white-tailed vermin is fine by me. 

Secondary reason being that I don't have sheep and only one nearby neighbour with sheep, and because the coyotes on my place are well-fed and not run by dogs they seem to stay more on my place whereas their other neighbours who dog all the time seem to have ended up driving the coyotes towards the sheep and they get a taste for them. Seems kind of counterintuitive but that's the way it's worked here for some time.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Pops2 said:


> depends too on the coyote population. if it's too high & not being checked somehow, eventually the pheasants disappear too.


Lot of hound hunters hereabouts. They keep them trimmed down.


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## nitestalker (Jan 13, 2007)

because their hides are worth $$$$$, they are wary not the easiest of prey. along with other agricultural reasons

Brian Harlow


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Most the time I hunt for Food,then for Money,then for Control,then for Sport.In that order.

And yes I enjoy it.

big rockpile


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## denaliguide (Aug 30, 2008)

Fox are brazen as well, caught them (in a leghold) checking out me bunking my rabbits in my greenhouse. Same reason I caught ***** in my garden.
'Yotes coming around raised hell with my rabbits breeding.
I like calling 'em whether I take 'em or not, just for the challenge as well as tracking them, altho I don't trap much anymore.
Part of this is to give the 'yotes a respect for human places and stuff, and a bit of balance, as well as keeping a balance with deer, which means you knock the 'yotes back, but don't destroy the entire population, but control it since they can breed so fast. As to balance, its necessary to control 'yotes if your going to have red fox in your country.

As to eating them, well, I'd have to say I take them to insure adequate protection and population of what I do eat....as well as a favor to the farmers whose ground I get to hunt for other game as well.

I feel as if the pursuit of any kind of game critters is quite simply reason enuf to do it, as the predator and meat eater in my blood and bones gets me to do.



pheasantplucker said:


> I am a hunter and so this is NOT an attack on hunting. I am seeking genuine answers to a question and I am NOT being judgmental, so please do not interpret my inquiry as an insult. I hunt small game and deer. I'd take a turkey if I ever got the chance. I am in favor of hunting those critters. Now we have many fox on my property. I have had a number of chances to kill them, but never have. I have seen coyote, too, and never shoot them, because for me if I'm not going to eat it I won't kill it. I see many folks (both here on this site, and who live near my property) who shoot fox and coyote. I'm certain that those who have chickens, or other livestock are probably motivated to kill 'yotes to protect their investment...aside from that though, and if you don't have sheep or goats or chickens, what is your reason for going after fox and 'yotes? I used to trap when I was a kid. Their pelts are beautiful...are some of you processing their pelts? Just wondering what your reasons are for pursuing animals you're not intending to eat.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Coyotes aren't native here, and are legal to kill at any time.
It's rare to see one unless you hunt for them though

I see lots of Fox, but only kill the ones bold enough to come in the yard where the chickens are.

I'm more likely to shoot a stray dog for bothering the sheep than either a Coyote or Fox


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I'm in Michigan not Minnesota and we do not have the skunks, possoms and ***** around the home place since they raise cane with the bee hives so are trapped and shot. 
We used to have lots of phesants and no coyotes but since the coyotes moved in the area about 10 years ago we do not have phesants any longer seen or heard, we also see a lot of deer in the summer with out fawns.

I use a home made E caller with a MP3 player for the sounds.



















We also have deer in our yard all times of the day and night so we know a fawn less doe when we see one.














































 Al


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Alleyooper, I believe that you and I both live in similar climes. In the best of times it is tenuous country for ringnecks. The most important factors for pheasants is habitat and weather.

We have always had coyotes here. Look at South Dakota. They are thick with both pheasant and coyote.

A bad winter with lots of drifting snow is deadly to pheasants. A cool rainy spring and early summer destroys nesting eggs. The only time we ever have good pheasant numbers is after a couple of years with a mild winter and warm dry springs.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

tinknal said:


> Alleyooper, I believe that you and I both live in similar climes. In the best of times it is tenuous country for ringnecks. The most important factors for pheasants is habitat and weather.
> 
> We have always had coyotes here. Look at South Dakota. They are thick with both pheasant and coyote.
> 
> A bad winter with lots of drifting snow is deadly to pheasants. A cool rainy spring and early summer destroys nesting eggs. The only time we ever have good pheasant numbers is after a couple of years with a mild winter and warm dry springs.


Many people think predators are to blame for fewer pheasants. This isn't usually the case. 
Young pheasants feed mainly on insects It is usually late summer before they feed mainly on grains and seeds. 
Nesting areas are another very important item. Livestock destroy many pheasant's nest. Row crops, mowing, plowing, and large farms reduce the numbers of pheasants.
Rough winters with lots of snow and extra wet or dry years lower the number of pheasants.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Feral cats are considered the #1 pheasant predator in this area. There's one major restoration area where any cat was shoot-on-sight. With the cats gone, rabbits also returned to the point where there now are organized tournaments for shooting them. On our old home farm, just to see a rabbit track was uncommon 50 years. Coyotes came in about 30 years ago and eliminated the cats. Now one may see more rabbits in 20 minutes than one saw in 20 years in older times.

Martin


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Predators have a way of no control what they eat.Present we are having problems with Otters,Racoons,Skunks and Opossums.

Otters have cleaned out most the Frogs in the area and have cleaned several Stocked Ponds out of Fish.Lucky to see a Turkey nest that isn't distroyed.Early Spring Coyotes are busy searching for Does Fawning or fresh born Fawns.Then all Summer their searching for Rabbit nest.

I try to eat most animals I kill but some just are not fit to eat.I killed an Old wild Ram,thought I would eat it.There was No Way! Finally fed it to my Dogs.But I won't pass up a Groundhog which many won't eat.

big rockpile


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Last year a camera was setup in the county where I live to observe a coyote den that sheltered a litter of pups. In a single month 28 deer fawns were brought to the den. I am a deer hunter that hunts for venison. Need I say more?


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Our county in Michigan was at one time considered the phesant hunting capital of the state. several things led to the down fall. The use of DDT was a factor, the farming pratice of removing fence rows and having whole sections of crop land was another The non control of skunks possoms and ***** another. But we still had a population of phesants in the over grown farm fields around me till the coyotes moved in. Also maybe some cold weather with out snow where the phesants can buro in for insulation didn't help either.

Wilderness Journal show on Saturdays PBS line up had a vido of a coyote attacking a turky decoy.

 Al


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I remember seeing pheasant nests when we lived in Marlette MI in the early 60's. We also saw bobwhite quail.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Coyotes eat my sheep, therefore I will kill all seen coyotes and their carcass will feed the vultures.


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## HillRunner (Jun 28, 2010)

I just wonder why we can't be predators anymore? Why is it that say a pack of wolves kill a yote because it's in the territory and nothing is thought about people say it's nature but the second a person kill one there is Hellfire and brimstone? Are we not a part of nature and predators ourselves anymore? (This is not pointed to any poster on here just a general thought.)


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

Not sure of the problem in Eastern Okla. but don't think it is yotes, but ferel cats and skunks and farming practices. When I came back from the Army, I could hunt quail all day and find covey after covey, but now one could hunt all week and not see a bird. I have lived about 33 years here where I do now and when I moved here I would seed birds often up and down the road and here at the house from time to time, but not anymore. I know the whole state has experinced a decline in quail. There are or are said to be a lot of turkeys, but I don't see them like I did a few years ago. Lots of reason for the decline, but one would think if the problem(s) are found DWL could start a program to get a regeneration of quail and more turkeys. Lots of deer and good deer and a money making wildlife, where as quail is not like it was. The DWL has done a good job with the deer, but lacking in other areas. Loved quail hunting and eating the quail.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

braggscowboy said:


> Not sure of the problem in Eastern Okla. but don't think it is yotes, but ferel cats and skunks and farming practices. When I came back from the Army, I could hunt quail all day and find covey after covey, but now one could hunt all week and not see a bird. I have lived about 33 years here where I do now and when I moved here I would seed birds often up and down the road and here at the house from time to time, but not anymore. I know the whole state has experinced a decline in quail. There are or are said to be a lot of turkeys, but I don't see them like I did a few years ago. Lots of reason for the decline, but one would think if the problem(s) are found DWL could start a program to get a regeneration of quail and more turkeys. Lots of deer and good deer and a money making wildlife, where as quail is not like it was. The DWL has done a good job with the deer, but lacking in other areas. Loved quail hunting and eating the quail.


It takes a quail about 2 weeks to lay a clutch of eggs, another 3 weeks to hatch the eggs, and another 2 weeks before they can fly well enough to escape predators. That is under ideal conditions. Lots of things can happen in that amount of time. Over 80% of the quail hatched won't make it through the first winter.

Raising pine trees has also caused a decline in quail numbers.

Releasing pen raised birds have helped in the decline of wild quail. Although over 95% of these birds do not make it one week the remaining numbers will have to compete with the wild birds for the food. This leaves less food for the wild quail which leaves less wild quail to raise young. Pen raised birds very sledom raise young.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

also people don't understand that ALL wildlife are interconnected & any give piece of land can only support so many tons of fauna. if most of that tonnage is in deer that leaves little room for other things. the deer shooters can't comprehend that more deer means less other game animals.


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## TnTnTn (Dec 23, 2004)

Pheasantplucker==so I guess there are lots of happy rats,mice, ticks, roaches, termites and ect on your empire. 'because for me if I'm not going to eat it I won't kill it.' I enjoy trying to outwit and kill coyotes for several reasons. Being fearful of people is a positive for all wildlife especially predators. Plus they kill my chickens, have chased my dogs, hammer the fawns in the spring, and killed several of my guineas too. Neighboring cattle and goat operations have been impacted by coyotes especially newborn calves and cows that are having a difficult time during the calving process. Coyotes are not native to TN but that doesn't mean that they should be exterminated imo. 'I' will never have an impact on the 'general' coyote population no matter how many I kill but I may have an impact locally that is beneficial to me and my selfish desires I reckon. TnTnTn


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Pops2 said:


> also people don't understand that ALL wildlife are interconnected & any give piece of land can only support so many tons of fauna. if most of that tonnage is in deer that leaves little room for other things. the deer shooters can't comprehend that more deer means less other game animals.


Its more of having the right variety of Fauna.Around here there is way less Grain Crops,far Less Warm Season Grasses and more Fescue and Cattle Farmers.

big rockpile


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

In the 1950's when I was a kid our woods was clear cut for lumber and pulp wood. It grew up with such a thick stand of popple you could hardly get thru it except by trails we cut and about 10 years latter deer run ways.
We had some of the best grouse and deer hunting one could have. then it grew up into mature woods again and the grouse population plumited. Deer stayed high because of the farm crops for the most part. Dad had it pulped off again in the early 1980's and the grouse came back in high numbers again and the deer got even thicker. One moon light night returning to the farm from a snow mobile ride we counted 172 deer in the 20 acre corn stubble beside the house. My brother and brother in law says the deer herds are way down now as are the grouse but it is a rare day you don't see a coyote hunting mice in a field or crossing a field. I was there Sunday and seen all kinds of coyote tracks around the house and even in the dirt of the barn dry floor. I should add that the house is empty now since my mom passed away.

 Al


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## gwest (Oct 9, 2008)

Darntootin said:


> I think people just enjoy the act of hunting them, they come up with reasons like 'they kill pets' or 'they reduce small game' to make it sound like they are obliged to do it.


Bet you wouldn't say that if the foxes and yotes started eating your chickens


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## Gianni (Dec 9, 2009)

I will shoot things I don't want to eat on occasion. I also kill mice and rats in the buildings around the place, cockroaches, weevil, tomato worms, potato beetles, spiders around my wife, mosquitos, flies, ants, aphids apple moths and probably a lot more things.I believe those who say that they only kill what they eat are short-sighted as are those who claim to never harm any living thing. Live is impossible to do with out restricting something else. AAUI, God told Adam & Eve to manage this world and do it well. This falls under that criteria.


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

At one time I went after furbearers for a dollar value represented, as an aid to keep the wolves away from my door. Called (survival in nature) As a human, I've got both a mind and a conscious to think with, to observe, to try and relate to my well being as well as other species, more than just the ones I "own". You become a wildlife bioligist in a sense, just without a degree, when it benifits you as well!

I've trapped as well as hunted, it's to your benifit to know population densities, habitat preferred, hunting and travel habits, as well as food sources available, and preferred. It is a very diverse and complicated habitat, of which, I have a very small understanding. 

We are a part of nature, whether we realize it or not! We just have to use the tools given us to make it better for all. Nature is neither cruel, nor kind... It takes what it wants without mercy. But we can make it less sufferable through our understanding of it! we can deliver a quick death to a sustainable/harvestable resource and use it to benifit ourselves and others, or we can watch the slow painful deaths, that still benifit others, such as disease, starvation, or being eaten alive, that accounts for a lot of deaths when a population exceeds itself. It's not about political correctness, or feel good attitudes, though many feel these pangs! Some must die for others to live!










pheasantplucker said:


> I'm certain that those who have chickens, or other livestock are probably motivated to kill 'yotes to protect their investment...aside from that though, and if you don't have sheep or goats or chickens, what is your reason for going after fox and 'yotes? I used to trap when I was a kid. Their pelts are beautiful...are some of you processing their pelts? Just wondering what your reasons are for pursuing animals you're not intending to eat.


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## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

My ancestors fought the frontier varmints to protect their farm animals from the 1700's all the way through my late fathers generation(coyotes killed a lot of his sheep). So I just naturally keep a varmint rifle here on the farm, out the door to milk ,before the sun came up this morning, I spotted three in the field. Back in the door and grabbed my .22 Hornet, took a rest on a brooder in the yard and shot one way out in the field. Another one stopped farther away at the edge of the field and looked back at the one I first shot. I then shot him also, kudos to my old 158 topper .22Hornet..
P.S. I don't own a single sheep, got an old time fur man to teach me how to skin them though...:thumb:


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## mdharris68 (Sep 28, 2006)

Well, coyotes are a tough critter to call in and kill, and I hunt them and shoot them to keep in practice for the animals that I am planning on eating. Thrill of the hunt you might say. KS has year round open season, no limit. Did have my dogs chase a coyote into our woven wire fence and knocked him loopy. It could have been going after one of the goats but I doubt it. I shot him so he wouldn't have the chance. Foxes on the other hand, I hardly ever see them except in small towns.



pheasantplucker said:


> I am a hunter and so this is NOT an attack on hunting. I am seeking genuine answers to a question and I am NOT being judgmental, so please do not interpret my inquiry as an insult. I hunt small game and deer. I'd take a turkey if I ever got the chance. I am in favor of hunting those critters. Now we have many fox on my property. I have had a number of chances to kill them, but never have. I have seen coyote, too, and never shoot them, because for me if I'm not going to eat it I won't kill it. I see many folks (both here on this site, and who live near my property) who shoot fox and coyote. I'm certain that those who have chickens, or other livestock are probably motivated to kill 'yotes to protect their investment...aside from that though, and if you don't have sheep or goats or chickens, what is your reason for going after fox and 'yotes? I used to trap when I was a kid. Their pelts are beautiful...are some of you processing their pelts? Just wondering what your reasons are for pursuing animals you're not intending to eat.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

mdharris68 said:


> Foxes on the other hand, I hardly ever see them except in small towns.


In many places, foxes are moving to towns in order to get away from coyotes. I've seen both reds and grays in the city during the past 5 or 6 years. Never saw that until the coyotes surrounded us.

Martin


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

To those of you who have implied that I don't kill cockroaches, ticks, etc....I was referring to higher life forms...I think we both knew that but you must have seen an opportunity for some fun...


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

On the news this morning Orchard lake road and middle belt road area suburb of Detroit. Coyote attacked 30 pound dog while out for a walk in the evening with it's owner near the golf course. Owner was able to scare coyote off but the dog had to be taken to the vet to stich up some torn fur. Home owners in the area should keep their pets close at hand, *they don't think *the coyotes will attack a human. 

 Al


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## Capt Quirk (Sep 24, 2011)

We _chose_ to live in a pretty wild environment, because we enjoy watching nature in all her glory. This includes all critters, even if they aren't the cute, cuddly ones you see in Bambi. Everything has a place and a job, it isn't my place to decide what lives and dies, unless I need food. I respect your choice to let predators go on, as they were meant to.

This however, does not mean I would let them prey on my critters. I don't leave them running loose to become prey.

A lot of folks, particularly the hard core country hunters, claim that coyotes are a detriment to the deer population. My view is, they thin the weak and sick out, leaving bigger, healthier deer. Cars take out more deer than coyotes do. I have also found mostly intact deer carcasses in dumpsters, prey to hunters who only want the rack and backstrap. And then there are poachers, who don't follow regulations.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

they only eat the sick & the weak is a myth. coyotes are VERY capable predators. there are pics & video all over the net of coyotes taking down big healthy deer.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Pops2 said:


> they only eat the sick & the weak is a myth. coyotes are VERY capable predators. there are pics & video all over the net of coyotes taking down big healthy deer.


Wrong. They only eat the sick, weak and old.


If they ripped your guts open and started eating them, you would feel sick. When your blood was draining away as they started on your liver, you would feel weak. And once they were done eating you, you would be as old as you were gonna get.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

The truth is they mostly kill new born fawns. One coyote can kill dozens during fawning season.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

tinknal said:


> The truth is they mostly kill new born fawns. One coyote can kill dozens during fawning season.


Some areas they kill up to 50%.

I seen couple one day make a kill,I thought it was a Mouse,went to see what it was? It was very cold the ground was frozen.They had dug up a Box Turtle,popped the Shell open and ate it.Summer they spend time eating Baby Rabbits.

big rockpile


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yesterday a friend called and asked what I had been doing to keep busy. I told him calling coyotes with Lee and Rob. He then told me that is what he had been doing too. He had shot a deer with his bow last fall and in the 30 minutes he had waited to track it and then the time to find it the coyotes had found it and made a mess of it. He went out the next day and bought a fox pro, he and his nephew have gotten 7 (since mid Dec.)so far from his farm wood lot and across the road at his neighbours.
To many with no controls and they will eat about any thing. We haven't gotten any on our home places this year. In fact I haven't heard any howling in the near by area in some time. Have to go see the neighbour who hd them in his yard killing chickens.

 Al


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## TnTnTn (Dec 23, 2004)

Bagged this one overnight and don't plan on eating it either. Point being we all kill lots of things that we don't eat. One can't live on the earth without being in competition with other earthly residents. TTT


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## redroving (Sep 28, 2005)

I do have sheep but also have very good fencing. The coyotes do not bother my sheep, I don't bother the coyote. 
I don't have chickens but our neighbors do and they let them go everywhere (they even come on our property and make huge dust bowls and damage plants) and we do have foxes that kill his chickens. If he penned up his chickens he wouldn't have a problem. He lost more chickens to road kill then to foxes. I had foxes den in my pasture where I kept my newly lambed ewes and their lambs were and they never bothered the lambs. I was thankful that they hunted night and day for all the voles and gophers. As to pheasants I do believe the population is going down due to clean farming (no hedgerows or grassy borders). They like tall grasses and here in CA there are miles and miles of farmland but all other plants other then the crop are eliminated all around the crops so no hiding or nesting places. 
I don't personally hunt but will kill if necessary. I have had more trouble with neighbors dogs then any coyote.


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## Gianni (Dec 9, 2009)

pheasantplucker said:


> To those of you who have implied that I don't kill cockroaches, ticks, etc....I was referring to higher life forms...I think we both knew that but you must have seen an opportunity for some fun...


No fun, I believe that any life form other than man is an equal life form.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I save the mice I catch in the traps and feed them to the cats and they like to play with them before eatting them.

 Al


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## Maddiequus (Nov 4, 2003)

We have three packs of coyotes up on our hill. I raised sheep for a few years and never lost one to predation; man on the other end of the road raises goats and has only lost them to his neighbor shooting them. Everyone around here has lost chickens, mostly to foxes. But the foxes are so dang hard to catch that the only deaths are roadkill.
Two years ago there must have been big litters because we started seeing coyotes in the daytime and they were challenging people's dogs. There's a guy around who loves hunting them so we told him about the problem and he thinned them out. Other than that, we leave them alone and they keep their distance.
I will say we have more than our fair share of rabbits - the kids next door raised rabbits for 4H, then decided they didn't want them anymore and turned them loose. Need I say more?


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## Maddiequus (Nov 4, 2003)

alleyyooper said:


> On the news this morning Orchard lake road and middle belt road area suburb of Detroit. Coyote attacked 30 pound dog while out for a walk in the evening with it's owner near the golf course. Owner was able to scare coyote off but the dog had to be taken to the vet to stich up some torn fur. Home owners in the area should keep their pets close at hand, *they don't think *the coyotes will attack a human.
> 
> Al


Coyotes (and any feral dog pack) will act playful, especially during mating season, and try to draw pets off. Once the domestic dog follows, the pack attacks and the dog has no chance.


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## Blackbear (Jan 21, 2012)

If I am not going to eat it , I will not kill it. If I had an aggressive encounter with a bear I may kill as self defense but other wise no.

Only critters killed with out eating are mice, spiders.Especially spiders. Terminated on site


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Maddiequus said:


> Coyotes (and any feral dog pack) will act playful, especially during mating season, and try to draw pets off. Once the domestic dog follows, the pack attacks and the *dog has no chance*.


depends on the dog. i have been out trying to challenge one of the local packs. they'll talk crap but won't come in. they know my grey & my dane are there. they fear the dane most but won't engage either dog. the dane killed a pup last year & they remember.


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## Capt Quirk (Sep 24, 2011)

Blackbear said:


> If I am not going to eat it , I will not kill it. If I had an aggressive encounter with a bear I may kill as self defense but other wise no.
> 
> Only critters killed with out eating are mice, spiders.Especially spiders. Terminated on site


I am the opposite, when it comes to spiders. In theory, they eat other insects that are more annoying, and get a free pass. In theory. They build these huge webs, but the only thing that seems to get caught in them is me.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Ditto what CQ says about spiders. We've even gone so far as to introduce garden and orb spiders here over 30 years ago and always have a few "Charlotte" webs to work around every fall. Bears, on the other hand, are considered food in my family. Canned some last month and have bear summer sausage still in my system from last night's bedtime snack.

Martin


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## Capt Quirk (Sep 24, 2011)

When it comes to spiders, Black, Red, and Brown Widows die on sight. I'm not thrilled with web spinners, but love some Wolf spiders. I know they do their job! I was working in a warehouse one day, and moved a box. Out from under it, shoots a Palmetto bug (Sort of a big flying roach, for you Yankee types). Before he was halfway across the aisle, a big Wolf Spider comes out of nowhere, hits it, flips it, and sinks it's fangs into the roach's throat. That spider earned a free pass for it's species that day.


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## snake35 (Jan 24, 2011)

I have been actively hunting and snaring coyotes for two years. In that time I have seen a dramatic increase in the turkey and deer population. When I catch opossum, **** and skunks on my traplines I do not eat them either. Times are not that hard just yet.


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## Capt Quirk (Sep 24, 2011)

Hey Snake, I've had the opportunity to skin a Skunk once... and believe me, that was a challenge I don't care to ever repeat! Anyways, as I skinned the critter, I was surprised at how good the meat actually looked. Since it was dead, in a bucket for an undetermined amount of time, and had "Unloaded", I was not curious enough to try that one. But... I might be, if one were fresh and not stinky.


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