# No Politics - Coronavirus Thread



## MoonRiver

I wish the moderators had chosen to clean the previous coronavirus thread rather than move it to Politics, but that's their call. The thing is it had several weeks of extremely good information on the coronavirus. At 9 am yesterday I didn't see any politics in the thread and when I checked again about 3 pm, the thread was gone, As the originator of the thread, I would have appreciated a message telling me the thread was moved and why.

So let's re-establish the thread to try to keep information in one thread. I'm not suggesting no one start a different thread, but for information on current status, daily information, and actions you can take to protect you and your family, it would be nice to have one place to go for the information.


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## gleepish

I was also surprised by the move, especially since I don't have access to the politics board. A simple cleaning should have sufficed. But.. hopefully this one will stay 'clean'. 

DH planned a surprise camping trip out of state in about two weeks. I'm having some mixed feelings about traveling, but we'll see what's happening as the time gets closer, we can always change our minds if needed. Of course, that would require accurate testing so we have a better idea of what's going on around us. Even with limited testing, the numbers are starting to climb... we shall see....


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## MoonRiver

Now hand sanitizers are hard to find. I could have told them that a week ago. I never was able to find single hand wipes. The company that makes Purrell said a week ago they were at max capacity.


> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/othe...hand-sanitizer-sorry-we-have-none/ar-BB10ywvD
> 
> Employees at the Cedar Knolls store showed shopper after shopper shelves devoid of any hand sanitizer.
> 
> A few miles away, at a CVS Health, an employee laughed softly when asked where the hand sanitizers were, pointing to a shelf where only five bottles of CVS’s private-label brand sat.
> 
> On Amazon, for instance, a search for popular hand sanitizer brands like Purell, Germ-X or even Amazon’s private-label brand, Solimo, showed many were unavailable.


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## MoonRiver

We are about a week or less from big numbers in US (IMO)

*The virus may have been in Washington State for weeks.*


> As Washington State declared a state of emergency over the new coronavirus, researchers who studied two cases in the state say that the virus may have been spreading there for weeks, suggesting the possibility that up to 1,500 people in the state may have been infected.


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## robin416

Suggestion to protect this topic from politics, report it. Even if I slip up and say something, report it. I won't be upset. It's just sometimes I can't keep quiet when something is so totally wrong.

One of the thoughts I had was about the testing and what I read and others have noticed. It could be months by the time they have a test that is reliable. I still haven't figured out why we don't since Corona is not a new unknown bug. Anyway, by the time they do have it we're going to have a lot more cases than we do now.

It might already be too late considering how the numbers have climbed this past week.


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## robin416

MoonRiver said:


> We are about a week or less from big numbers in US (IMO)
> 
> *The virus may have been in Washington State for weeks.*


Of course it's a paper that wants you to sign in. 

But I wouldn't be surprised. How is it there are cases with no known contact with anyone with the virus? That title says it all.


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## popscott

This is a repost from me... but I do have a true concern about it...

One things my little "pee" brain keeps thinking.... Think of all the products we get from China.... The virus last 2 to 9 days on its own and more under the right conditions. If the Wong (ha, ha) person was throwing a packages on a pallet would it get here in time for our local Wally World person to touch?
China is the largest supplier of Ibuprofen... How many of us have taken Ibuprofen lately?


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## MoonRiver

popscott said:


> This is a repost from me... but I do have a true concern about it...
> 
> One things my little "pee" brain keeps thinking.... Think of all the products we get from China.... The virus last 2 to 9 days on its own and more under the right conditions. If the Wong (ha, ha) person was throwing a packages on a pallet would it get here in time for our local Wally World person to touch?
> China is the largest supplier of Ibuprofen... How many of us have taken Ibuprofen lately?


I think most come by container ships, so it would take longer than that to get from China to Walmart.


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## robin416

popscott said:


> This is a repost from me... but I do have a true concern about it...
> 
> One things my little "pee" brain keeps thinking.... Think of all the products we get from China.... The virus last 2 to 9 days on its own and more under the right conditions. If the Wong (ha, ha) person was throwing a packages on a pallet would it get here in time for our local Wally World person to touch?
> China is the largest supplier of Ibuprofen... How many of us have taken Ibuprofen lately?


The fact that they haven't yet how long it lives on a surface that's a valid question. 

I saw them reporting on the ships from China this past week. There weren't any. Some other news reporter said that the workers on the ship were not allowed to come ashore if they were coming from countries with a high infection rate.


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## gleepish

popscott said:


> This is a repost from me... but I do have a true concern about it...
> 
> One things my little "pee" brain keeps thinking.... Think of all the products we get from China.... The virus last 2 to 9 days on its own and more under the right conditions. If the Wong (ha, ha) person was throwing a packages on a pallet would it get here in time for our local Wally World person to touch?
> China is the largest supplier of Ibuprofen... How many of us have taken Ibuprofen lately?


Well, I figure that the ibuprofen we have was bought long enough ago that it should be safe... And for what is on the shelves, I would think that the same thing applies. Even if it was bought within the last two months by the time it ships, sits in a warehouse and then finally hits the shelves... it should be ok (hopefully). I'd figure the overstock on common items is pretty high. On that same note, we did just buy some bedding that is shipping from India (wish I would have known that at the time of order)... it's due here in about 3 weeks. It will sit in our garage unopened until mid summer, hopefully that will be long enough.


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## popscott

gleepish said:


> Well, I figure that the ibuprofen we have was bought long enough ago that it should be safe... And for what is on the shelves, I would think that the same thing applies. Even if it was bought within the last two months by the time it ships, sits in a warehouse and then finally hits the shelves... it should be ok (hopefully). I'd figure the overstock on common items is pretty high. On that same note, we did just buy some bedding that is shipping from India (wish I would have known that at the time of order)... it's due here in about 3 weeks. It will sit in our garage unopened until mid summer, hopefully that will be long enough.


So we can buy stuff from China on Ebay.... does that get UPS'd and get here quicker than the "slow boat from China"


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## Robotron

Most modern production lines have no human interactions unless samples are pulled from the line. Automation despises interference. The speed at which things move means you can’t focus on one item in the line.


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## gleepish

popscott said:


> So we can buy stuff from China on Ebay.... does that get UPS'd and get here quicker than the "slow boat from China"


I honestly have no idea.


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## gleepish

I wish that the US was taking half of the measures that S. Korea is taking... Either way, I thought it was interesting to see how they are briefing their people on the current situation.


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## MoonRiver

robin416 said:


> Of course it's a paper that wants you to sign in.
> 
> But I wouldn't be surprised. How is it there are cases with no known contact with anyone with the virus? That title says it all.


You can access the NYT article. Click on title of article in op.


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## robin416

The majority of the stuff we order and is delivered by Fedex has been sitting here in some warehouse for a while. That's why we have so many ships from China showing up our docs. Be more afraid of the Fedex driver that has visited multiple places.


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## geo in mi

I hope that people can keep their wits about them and not do stupid things out of panic--or delay. I am in the group who could have more trouble with it than younger, healthier people, so I am making my preps accordingly. "Lay low" is my strategy. I am following all the comments here and getting a few ideas to beef up my plan if things get hot and heavy for a week or two. 

And, from what I've seen happening in the other countries, it looks like this thing can quickly each a peak or go exponential….no matter what we may hear coming out of our leaders. (Going viral would be a very bad pun here). I'm going to hedge my bets--as I have already mentioned when the talk is about the subject of climate change--I hope that's not considered too political--for right now, it's good to keep up the information flow..

We are lucky to be in the homesteading mode, huh? We are in less populated areas, we already live and prepare for inconveniences because it is both in our natures, and we live too far away from the towns and easy resources to be dependent upon them. We already stand on our own two feet and face problems daily. Most of us are stocked up, and soon, we will be eating from our gardens.

So, keep the good ideas coming, but let's not panic or despair.

geo


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## barnbilder

It's a disease of political expediency, just like Zika, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, Ebola, et al. Impossible to not bring politics into any rational discussion of the disease.


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## popscott

MoonRiver said:


> You can access the NYT article. Click on title of article in op.


I'm not see a link in the OP..... and the NYT is not for the "unsubscribed"


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## MoonRiver

popscott said:


> I'm not see a link in the OP..... and the NYT is not for the "unsubscribed"


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage


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## robin416

Is that the full article?


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## popscott

MoonRiver said:


> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage


nope....


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## robin416

That last link shows the complete article and not just two paragraphs. The title was not clickable at all in the original post.


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## Lisa in WA

robin416 said:


> That last link shows the complete article and not just two paragraphs. The title was not clickable at all in the original post.


they are a huge pain to copy and paste because they put advertisements in to prevent just such actions.


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## Darren

robin416 said:


> Suggestion to protect this topic from politics, report it. Even if I slip up and say something, report it. I won't be upset. It's just sometimes I can't keep quiet when something is so totally wrong.
> 
> One of the thoughts I had was about the testing and what I read and others have noticed. It could be months by the time they have a test that is reliable. I still haven't figured out why we don't since Corona is not a new unknown bug. Anyway, by the time they do have it we're going to have a lot more cases than we do now.
> 
> It might already be too late considering how the numbers have climbed this past week.





robin416 said:


> Suggestion to protect this topic from politics, report it. Even if I slip up and say something, report it. I won't be upset. It's just sometimes I can't keep quiet when something is so totally wrong.
> 
> One of the thoughts I had was about the testing and what I read and others have noticed. It could be months by the time they have a test that is reliable. I still haven't figured out why we don't since Corona is not a new unknown bug. Anyway, by the time they do have it we're going to have a lot more cases than we do now.
> 
> It might already be too late considering how the numbers have climbed this past week.


The CDC test kits had issues with the reagents.


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## robin416

Lisa in WA said:


> they are a huge pain to copy and paste because they put advertisements in to prevent just such actions.


I use ad blocker so I don't see ads at all.

Which really gets under the skin of some publishers.


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## robin416

Darren said:


> The CDC test kits had issues with the reagents.


I know, I read that way back. What they said is that it was an issue and in the next breath made it sound like was an easy quick fix.


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## MoonRiver

popscott said:


> nope....


Scroll down. They added a new article in front of it since I posted the link. Just go to the link and scroll down and you should find the article.


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## robin416

That really wasn't the problem in the beginning. The one you wanted us to see was the lead but it only showed two paragraphs. I don't know what their rhyme or reasoning is for why it's not the complete article when it's the lead and then the full article when they post a new lead. 

Trust me, I'm not imagining this.


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## Lisa in WA

robin416 said:


> That really wasn't the problem in the beginning. The one you wanted us to see was the lead but it only showed two paragraphs. I don't know what their rhyme or reasoning is for why it's not the complete article when it's the lead and then the full article when they post a new lead.
> 
> Trust me, I'm not imagining this.


Maybe they are blocking people with adblockers.
I have a subscription to the NYT bit they still manage to break the articles up with pictures, blurbs, etc. so copying is a real chore.


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## Bearfootfarm

Robotron said:


> Most modern production lines have no human interactions unless samples are pulled from the line.


That depends largely on the product.
Some things are handled many times during the process from raw material to out-the-door.


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## susieneddy

popscott said:


> This is a repost from me... but I do have a true concern about it...
> 
> One things my little "pee" brain keeps thinking.... Think of all the products we get from China.... The virus last 2 to 9 days on its own and more under the right conditions. If the Wong (ha, ha) person was throwing a packages on a pallet would it get here in time for our local Wally World person to touch?
> China is the largest supplier of Ibuprofen... How many of us have taken Ibuprofen lately?


The report I saw says China was indeed the largest supplier but that was from 2016. Can't find anything since then. Did India pass them?


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## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> You can access the NYT article. Click on title of article in op.


For lots of people that opens the page but they don't allow total access unless you sign up.
It depends on how often one has visited their site.



> Unlock more free articles.
> Create an account or log in


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## MoonRiver

If you start to feel sick and have the 3 symptoms (cough, fever, breathing problems), what will you do?

In all the research I have done, I don't remember ever seeing a recommendation. It seems to me that walking into your doctor's office or into ER would unnecessarily expose others to the virus, if you have it. So if you don't go somewhere, who do you call? And where will they tell you to go?

Logic tells me there should be a number to call where someone can make a 1st level assessment over the phone. If it is determined that you likely have the coronavirus, then a medical professional in proper gear would come to your home to administer the test and make an assessment whether you required immediate hospitalization or if you could self quarantine until the test results were available.

Thoughts?


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## Lisa in WA

MoonRiver said:


> If you start to feel sick and have the 3 symptoms (cough, fever, breathing problems), what will you do?
> 
> In all the research I have done, I don't remember ever seeing a recommendation. It seems to me that walking into your doctor's office or into ER would unnecessarily expose others to the virus, if you have it. So if you don't go somewhere, who do you call? And where will they tell you to go?
> 
> Logic tells me there should be a number to call where someone can make a 1st level assessment over the phone. If it is determined that you likely have the coronavirus, then a medical professional in proper gear would come to your home to administer the test and make an assessment whether you required immediate hospitalization or if you could self quarantine until the test results were available.
> 
> Thoughts?


they are telling us to contact our healthcare provider. Not just show up at the ER.
My daughters friend is an ER doctor. It will be interesting to hear what he says since they are testing a few people here for it.


“
A Spokane County resident who is displaying symptoms of the COVID-19 has been tested for the virus Saturday night.

According to our partners at The Spokesman-Review, the Spokane Regional Health District has five other people in Spokane County are also under surveillance for the virus.
*
The Spokane Regional Health District is asking Spokane residents who are showing symptoms of the coronavirus to call their health care provider before getting care at an emergency health department. *


That’s according to the Spokane Regional Health District, which is asking local residents experiencing symptoms to call their health care provider before seeking care at the emergency department.

Health officials are encouraging people who are sick to stay home from work and school. They also said to people can prevent getting sick by wash your hands and avoiding those who are sick. “
https://www.khq.com/news/spokane-co...cle_f59a2cce-5b69-11ea-a173-a3052e98e6a6.html


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## reneedarley

MoonRiver said:


> If you start to feel sick and have the 3 symptoms (cough, fever, breathing problems), what will you do?
> 
> In all the research I have done, I don't remember ever seeing a recommendation. It seems to me that walking into your doctor's office or into ER would unnecessarily expose others to the virus, if you have it. So if you don't go somewhere, who do you call? And where will they tell you to go?


Here in Sweden we have been told to stay at home, call 112, and the emergency team will come and test us. Quite sensible really.


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## wr

MoonRiver said:


> I wish the moderators had chosen to clean the previous coronavirus thread rather than move it to Politics, but that's their call.


Out of respect for members, we clean them up once, which was done. After that, if members still want to make it political or turn it into a Dark Room subject, it's considered member's choice.


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## MoonRiver

wr said:


> Out of respect for members, we clean them up once, which was done. After that, if members still want to make it political or turn it into a Dark Room subject, it's considered member's choice.


I understand. I had never seen any posts that I thought were overly political and never knew that the thread had been cleaned. I was pleased the thread had stayed on track. 

It might be a good idea to add a comment to a thread with a warning it had been cleaned and further political posts would have it closed or moved. It usually takes at least 2 people to get a thread closed or moved and maybe at least one of the people will not re-offend if they see the warning.


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## barnbilder

From everything I read, it's basically somewhere between the common cold and the flu. It is only likely to kill old people, people that are overweight, smokers, diabetics, or have some kind of health complications. Sounds like the perfect natural balance for the human species. Just like large predators that make a population healthier. Why are we trying to stop the spread? It is the arctic wolf to our caribou. We should not be buying out all the masks in a panic, we should be licking the restroom doorknobs every time we go to the Chinese restaurant. We owe it to our selves as a species.


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## robin416

barnbilder said:


> From everything I read, it's basically somewhere between the common cold and the flu. It is only likely to kill old people, people that are overweight, smokers, diabetics, or have some kind of health complications. Sounds like the perfect natural balance for the human species. Just like large predators that make a population healthier. Why are we trying to stop the spread? It is the arctic wolf to our caribou. We should not be buying out all the masks in a panic, we should be licking the restroom doorknobs every time we go to the Chinese restaurant. We owe it to our selves as a species.


I really hope that's sarcasm.


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## barnbilder

It has worked for thousands of years.


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## robin416

If that's the way you want to go, have at it. I have a lot more living to do so won't be doing things that can put me at risk.


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## barnbilder

If I am weak enough to succumb to a virus named after a light beer, then I don't deserve to pass on my genetic material.


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## Bearfootfarm

robin416 said:


> I really hope that's sarcasm.


It's the stark reality of biology and evolution.
Some don't like reality, but that doesn't change it one iota.


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## robin416

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's the stark reality of biology and evolution.
> Some don't like reality, but that doesn't change it one iota.


The reality is we are higher thinking beings and can make choices that reduces the chance of serious illness or death.


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## Bearfootfarm

robin416 said:


> The reality is *we are higher thinking beings* and can make choices that reduces the chance of serious illness or death.


We *can* also choose to accept reality and not to panic, but many don't make that choice.


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## robin416

Bearfootfarm said:


> We *can* also choose to accept reality and not to panic, but many don't make that choice.


I don't understand your point.


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## Alice In TX/MO

My understanding of the point is that a significant percentage of humans make choices that are not due to reasoned thought. Therefore, panic.


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## newfieannie

all kidding aside though and many times i dont agree with BB but there is some truth in it. having read most of his posts over the years i dont think he means it as sarcasm. my father use to talk a lot about survival of the fittest. ~Georgia


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## Bearfootfarm

robin416 said:


> I don't understand your point.


The point is some reside in their own universe, and they will refuse to accept anything that doesn't fit their preconceived notions, even if that means they have to defy all facts and logic.

They are the ones who base decisions on emotions and reactions rather than careful evaluation of all the available information.

We see examples every day.


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## Bearfootfarm

Alice In TX/MO said:


> My understanding of the point is that a significant percentage of humans make choices that are not due to reasoned thought. Therefore, panic.


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## Bearfootfarm

newfieannie said:


> my father use to talk a lot about survival of the fittest.


The "law of the jungle" is reality.
It always has been, and always will be.

Intelligence can sometimes skew the results, but that too is part of being "fit".

"panic
[ˈpanik]
NOUN

sudden uncontrollable fear or anxiety, often causing wildly *unthinking* behavior."


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## newfieannie

i did see quite a few people when i was out shopping today and it did come to my mind. if the virus gets here and they get it. they're not likely to last.


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## Darren

barnbilder said:


> From everything I read, it's basically somewhere between the common cold and the flu. It is only likely to kill old people, people that are overweight, smokers, diabetics, or have some kind of health complications. Sounds like the perfect natural balance for the human species. Just like large predators that make a population healthier. Why are we trying to stop the spread? It is the arctic wolf to our caribou. We should not be buying out all the masks in a panic, we should be licking the restroom doorknobs every time we go to the Chinese restaurant. We owe it to our selves as a species.


If it's like the Spanish flu in effect it will kill those with a strong immune system. 

The immune response damaged the body so much viral or bacterial pneumonia killed the victim in very little time. The cyanosis was so bad that Caucasians looked like Blacks from the lack of oxygen in the blood.


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## SLADE

So that means the weak shall survive.


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## MoonRiver

barnbilder said:


> From everything I read, it's basically somewhere between the common cold and the flu. It is only likely to kill old people, people that are overweight, smokers, diabetics, or have some kind of health complications. Sounds like the perfect natural balance for the human species. Just like large predators that make a population healthier. Why are we trying to stop the spread? It is the arctic wolf to our caribou. We should not be buying out all the masks in a panic, we should be licking the restroom doorknobs every time we go to the Chinese restaurant. We owe it to our selves as a species.


Lick one for me 'cus I plan on being around for awhile longer.


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## Darren

SRSLADE said:


> So that means the weak shall survive.


Children and the elderly. The productive will be the hardest hit including first responders.


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## robin416

The thing to watch, how fit are those that catch it. Are they couch potatoes or people that are not afraid to do physical labor? 

Catch it in a nursing home, no doubt the mortality rate will be high. Unfortunately those folks are infirm. What about those that don't live in tight confinement with others? That last question also suggests that those of us in the sticks are less apt to come into contact with it.


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## robin416

Darren said:


> Children and the elderly. The productive will be the hardest hit including first responders.


Children are not as affected by this virus.


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## MoonRiver

Darren said:


> Children and the elderly. The productive will be the hardest hit including first responders.


By far the most deaths are in people over 80. That may change.


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## MoonRiver

I was out cleaning up the garden so had plenty of time to think.

China took draconian measures to try to stop the spread of the coronavirus. We haven't seen other countries use quarantine procedures anywhere near as strict as what China used. The obvious answer would be China is a communist country and can get away with it where most other countries can't.

But there is at least 1 other possibility. What if this was a virus China was manipulating for whatever reason, and based on what they knew of the virus, they knew the only thing that could stop it was strict quarantine. There reluctance to let US experts into the country and not providing access to information makes me suspicious of what they might be trying to hide.

Just thinking, not saying that's what happened, but it would make a good movie plot.


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## wr

MoonRiver said:


> I understand. I had never seen any posts that I thought were overly political and never knew that the thread had been cleaned. I was pleased the thread had stayed on track.
> 
> It might be a good idea to add a comment to a thread with a warning it had been cleaned and further political posts would have it closed or moved. It usually takes at least 2 people to get a thread closed or moved and maybe at least one of the people will not re-offend if they see the warning.


I usually post 'first cleanup' so other mods and members can see it's been cleaned up.


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## Bearfootfarm

Darren said:


> If it's like the Spanish flu in effect it will kill those with a strong immune system.


This one is killing mainly older people with pre-existing health issues.
Younger healthy people are barely affected.


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## wr

First cleanup.


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## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> There* reluctance* to let US experts into the country and *not providing access* to information makes me suspicious of what they might be trying to hide.


They have never allowed free access to anything in their country.
There's nothing new at all about that.


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## keenataz

MoonRiver said:


> If you start to feel sick and have the 3 symptoms (cough, fever, breathing problems), what will you do?
> 
> In all the research I have done, I don't remember ever seeing a recommendation. It seems to me that walking into your doctor's office or into ER would unnecessarily expose others to the virus, if you have it. So if you don't go somewhere, who do you call? And where will they tell you to go?
> 
> Logic tells me there should be a number to call where someone can make a 1st level assessment over the phone. If it is determined that you likely have the coronavirus, then a medical professional in proper gear would come to your home to administer the test and make an assessment whether you required immediate hospitalization or if you could self quarantine until the test results were available.
> 
> Thoughts?



Same thing I have always done with a cold or flu. Nothing. Stay at home till better.

That is why we have no idea of incidence. Most people don't go to doctor with a cold or flu.


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## mzgarden

popscott said:


> nope....
> 
> View attachment 84192


@popscott 
Try copying the url for the article you can't read without a subscription, opening this link to Outline.com
in a new tab, pasting the url for the article into the Enter Article URL box and see if that works.


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## Bearfootfarm

> MoonRiver said: ↑
> If you start to feel sick and have the 3 symptoms (cough, fever, breathing problems), what will you do?
> 
> In all the research I have done, I don't remember ever seeing a recommendation. It seems to me that walking into your doctor's office or into ER would unnecessarily expose others to the virus, if you have it. *So if you don't go somewhere, who do you call? *And where will they tell you to go?
> 
> *Logic tells me there should be a number to call where someone can make a 1st level assessment over the phone.* If it is determined that you likely have the coronavirus, then a medical professional in proper gear would come to your home to administer the test and make an assessment whether you required immediate hospitalization or if you could self quarantine until the test results were available.
> 
> Thoughts?


There are county health departments in most every location.
Here are some of the services offered by mine.
I feel certain a phone call could get you the information you need.
Sheriff's Departments also have non-emergency numbers where you can get reliable information.:
*Clinic Services*

A variety of clinical services are offered including:

Blood Pressure/Glucose/Cholesterol Screening
Diagnosis and Treatment of Sexually Transmitted Diseases
Family Planning Services
HIV Testing and Counseling
Immunizations for Children and Adults
Nutrition Counseling
*Other Communicable Disease Control*
Pregnancy Testing and Maternity Services
Screening for Selected Cancers
Tuberculosis Treatment and Follow-Up
Well Child Health Care
Women's Infants and Children's (WIC) Nutrition Education and Supplementation Program


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## HDRider

There was a line for the hand sanitizer wipes at the shopping cart station.


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## macmad

SARS...….…….2004
AVIAN...………..2008
SWINE...……….2010
MERS...………..2012
EBOLA.....……..2014
ZIKA...………….2016
EBOLA.....…… 2018
CORONA..…….2020
Common denominator?


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## Bearfootfarm

macmad said:


> Common denominator?


Election years


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## macmad

Shame shame shame. That was political.  next time say even numbered years.


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## SLADE

It's a conspiracy and we must buy more wingnut products.


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## Bearfootfarm

macmad said:


> That was political.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> next time say even numbered years.



I misspelled "even".
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


----------



## dyrne

After looking into this a bit I'm having a difficult time with the right perspective to take. Just a dispassionate look at things, if you were to hand me input and ask me to map out a theoretical scenario would have me saying 90-300 million deaths worldwide (2-7% mortality based on eventual 60% infection rate WHO predicted) and global financial meltdown, etc. but of course... that is crazy. So that isn't my opinion at all. In the real world if you ask me about this I'll just mutter something cynical about media hype.

But a more spastic and and excitable version of me might say something like:

I doubt very much that China has actually got a hold on the outbreak. The reported drop in infection growth is almost comical. It doesn't even make sense. China was originally only reporting pneumonia cases as infection and that limited their ability to control it. So, they updated the guidelines to include less severe infections as well but at the same time... the rise of infections they reported halted completely. They're obviously not the real number because even if infection rates were to improve or remain the same, changing the guidelines should have resulted in a huge spike on the report. Link about this

As for the US, we weren't in general testing anyone unless they reported exposure to Chinese nationals or some similar strict guideline like that and now that it is in the US, that isn't really useful at all in determining or curtailing infections. You won't be tested at your clinic just because you're concerned unless you lie about experiencing direct exposure to a foreign national or something similar. Combine that with the fact that the "test" is basically them taking a sample and snail mailing it to CDC (23 and me style) in Atlanta... don't expect much. US official numbers are 4.6% mortality rate with extraordinary intervention and 40% hospitalization rate -https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html as of now.

Whoever mentioned shipping containers is correct. We won't start seeing real pain in the economy until store shelves become bare and consumer spending drops. If that occurs alongside fears of catching the virus resulting in people eating out less, etc. our consumer driven economy will nose dive.


----------



## robin416

Fauci has said that once all the numbers are in he expects to see a 1% mortality rate with Covid. That's ten times that of the flu. He also mentioned no herd immunity.


----------



## dyrne

robin416 said:


> Fauci has said that once all the numbers are in he expects to see a 1% mortality rate with Covid. That's ten times that of the flu. He also mentioned no herd immunity.


I do hope the mortality rate improves but I'm not sure I put much stock in experts when we have real numbers that contradict them.
_It's currently 4% in South Korea for example and they're a super developed first-world country. Link _ *Edit: this is wrong*

It is 8.7% in Iran though that is probably inflated a bit by under reported cases. If you discard China as unreliable in their numbers, Fauci's number might (to some people not me of course) look very conservative.


----------



## robin416

dyrne said:


> I do hope the mortality rate improves but I'm not sure I put much stock in experts when we have real numbers that contradict them. It's currently 4% in South Korea for example and they're a super developed first-world country. Link It is 8.7% in Iran though that is probably inflated a bit by under reported cases. If you discard China as unreliable in their numbers, Fauci's number might (to some people not me of course) look very conservative.


And that's what makes this thing so concerning to so many, no one knows for sure how it's going to behave while it's out in the wild.


----------



## MoonRiver

It's going to depend on if it gets into hospitals, nursing homes, retirement communities, etc.


----------



## po boy

dyrne said:


> I do hope the mortality rate improves but I'm not sure I put much stock in experts when we have real numbers that contradict them. It's currently 4% in South Korea for example and they're a super developed first-world country. Link It is 8.7% in Iran though that is probably inflated a bit by under reported cases. If you discard China as unreliable in their numbers, Fauci's number might (to some people not me of course) look very conservative.


How do u get 4% in South Korea?


----------



## dyrne

po boy said:


> How do u get 4% in South Korea?


You're right sorry. I edited the original post.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

dyrne said:


> It's currently *4%* in South Korea


4212 cases
22 deaths =
0.522317189%


----------



## dyrne

Bearfootfarm said:


> 4212 cases
> 22 deaths =
> 0.522317189%


Yeah I think current number is 26 unfortunately but that is still pretty encouraging.


----------



## light rain

MoonRiver said:


> Now hand sanitizers are hard to find. I could have told them that a week ago. I never was able to find single hand wipes. The company that makes Purrell said a week ago they were at max capacity.


Walmart sells little plastic spray bottles for 97 cents and 91% alcohol for about $2.00. Easy to spray hands, steering wheel and pants where you wiped or rested your hands.

I have kept one of those filled in the bathroom for years...
*No guarantee the spray won't spot material or vinyl but do you really care that much?


----------



## MoonRiver

Right now, the government is saying less than 100 cases in US with 6 deaths.


----------



## robin416

MoonRiver said:


> Right now, the government is saying less than 100 cases in US with 6 deaths.


That the know about.


----------



## MoonRiver

MoonRiver said:


> Right now, the government is saying less than 100 cases in US with 6 deaths.





robin416 said:


> That the know about.


Just making the point that mortality rates are misleading. The mortality rate in US, based on CDC numbers, is over 6%.


----------



## Hiro

MoonRiver said:


> Just making the point that mortality rates are misleading. The mortality rate in US, based on CDC numbers, is over 6%.


The sample size in the US is too small and skewed to be useful. Too high a percentage were Diamond Princess cruise passengers that were elderly. Have you heard of fatalities of the crew members of the DP yet? They were kept in crew quarters, prepared meals, delivered meals, collected waste and ate together (some "quaranitine" ) . The passengers were isolated for the most part. Watch SK and Japan, particularly SK, they appear to be quite aggressive with testing and treatment. Most importantly, they are more likely to report openly the results.


----------



## MoonRiver

Hiro said:


> The sample size in the US is too small and skewed to be useful. Too high a percentage were Diamond Princess cruise passengers that were elderly. Have you heard of fatalities of the crew members of the DP yet? They were kept in crew quarters, prepared meals, delivered meals, collected waste and ate together (some "quaranitine" ) . The passengers were isolated for the most part. Watch SK and Japan, particularly SK, they appear to be quite aggressive with testing and treatment. Most importantly, they are more likely to report openly the results.


And because SK is doing so much testing, their mortality rate is probably the most accurate we have. My post was meant to show how misleading a published mortality rate might be plus to show the CDC still doesn't have a handle on the number infected. There are probably hundreds of people with the virus at this point. There was 6 weeks between the 1st and 2nd community cases in Washington and it was the identical virus.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Just making the point that mortality rates are misleading. The mortality rate in US, based on CDC numbers, is over 6%.


In South Korea it's 0.5%


----------



## Grandmotherbear

May I comment? People are probably going to sick of hearing about my thoughts.
I've forgotten where I haven't yet posted them.
I intend to treat this whole thing like I treat a motel room when I have to stay in one. (I also did this when I was working and the home based teams were having terrific staffing shortages due to callouts for flu like symptoms and my team didn't despite being in a common area- but I digress)
In other words- Lysol spray. No I don't own stock in them but in the 1960s when I traveled with my dad he always had a can of Lysol to spray in the motel bathroom. I don't use generic disinfectants because they don't say they kill the flu virus and Lysol does. And I spray all the doorknobs, light switches, telephone handsets and remotes. At work I would sometimes lightly spray the keyboards (don't tell IT!) I discussed with GFB the whole thing about masks and the fact that people are really unaware of how often they touch their faces and that is more problematic for the general public than it is for health care workers, who really NEED their isolation masks- I told him that a full facial Halloween mask was probably better for interfering with the general public's face touching...except it's illegal in FL to wear full facial masks in public- probably an antiKKK statute.

I heard that some Costcos are running out of toilet paper because of stockpiling. We went to the Costco but we were stockpiling DeliCat dry cat food. It's about the only place in Florida that sells it now and 4 of our 6 cats won't eat any dry food but. Three of the four also act like it's a cat treat when we hand feed it. Costco just stopped stocking it and we had to drive 50 miles to get a store that had an inventory of it. We stockpiled our toilet paper yesterday- there was a BOGO special at the grocery. we bought 12 rolls instead of our usual 6. I don't really think that will last us in case of a Zombie Apocalypse. But until then I refuse to panic. It's sort of like northerners prepping for blizzards and southerners for hurricanes.
Thank you for your patience.
ETA My team went into nurseing homes and ALFS so we were at risk for a much higher exposure than the home based teams- but as I said we treated just those items and had a much smaller absentee rate.


----------



## MoonRiver

There is some evidence that the virus can transmitted both by droplets and by aerosol (airborne). 

I still think gloves, mask, and eye protection should be worn when going out if you are in a coronavirus cluster area. If nothing else, they are a constant reminder to be careful.


----------



## geo in mi

Grandmotherbear said:


> May I comment? People are probably going to sick of hearing about my thoughts.
> I've forgotten where I haven't yet posted them.
> I intend to treat this whole thing like I treat a motel room when I have to stay in one. (I also did this when I was working and the home based teams were having terrific staffing shortages due to callouts for flu like symptoms and my team didn't despite being in a common area- but I digress)
> In other words- Lysol spray. No I don't own stock in them but in the 1960s when I traveled with my dad he always had a can of Lysol to spray in the motel bathroom. I don't use generic disinfectants because they don't say they kill the flu virus and Lysol does. And I spray all the doorknobs, light switches, telephone handsets and remotes. At work I would sometimes lightly spray the keyboards (don't tell IT!) I discussed with GFB the whole thing about masks and the fact that people are really unaware of how often they touch their faces and that is more problematic for the general public than it is for health care workers, who really NEED their isolation masks- I told him that a full facial Halloween mask was probably better for interfering with the general public's face touching...except it's illegal in FL to wear full facial masks in public- probably an antiKKK statute.
> 
> I heard that some Costcos are running out of toilet paper because of stockpiling. We went to the Costco but we were stockpiling DeliCat dry cat food. It's about the only place in Florida that sells it now and 4 of our 6 cats won't eat any dry food but. Three of the four also act like it's a cat treat when we hand feed it. Costco just stopped stocking it and we had to drive 50 miles to get a store that had an inventory of it. We stockpiled our toilet paper yesterday- there was a BOGO special at the grocery. we bought 12 rolls instead of our usual 6. I don't really think that will last us in case of a Zombie Apocalypse. But until then I refuse to panic. It's sort of like northerners prepping for blizzards and southerners for hurricanes.
> Thank you for your patience.
> ETA My team went into nurseing homes and ALFS so we were at risk for a much higher exposure than the home based teams- but as I said we treated just those items and had a much smaller absentee rate.


Just don't shine an ultraviolet light around a darkened motel room. You don't wanna know...….

geo


----------



## keenataz

dyrne said:


> I do hope the mortality rate improves but I'm not sure I put much stock in experts when we have real numbers that contradict them.
> _It's currently 4% in South Korea for example and they're a super developed first-world country. Link _ *Edit: this is wrong*
> 
> It is 8.7% in Iran though that is probably inflated a bit by under reported cases. If you discard China as unreliable in their numbers, Fauci's number might (to some people not me of course) look very conservative.


My issue is not mortality rate among reported cases, it is I believe a lot of cases do not get reported. Right now I have a stuffed nose and chest congestion. Am I going to doctor, no. why would I. And I expect many others are the same.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I still think gloves, mask, and eye protection should be worn when going out if you are in a coronavirus cluster area. If nothing else, they are a constant reminder to be careful.


https://www.worldofbuzz.com/face-ma...ght-actually-increase-your-risk-of-infection/
“The average healthy person does not need to have a mask, and *they shouldn’t be wearing masks*,” said Dr.Eli Perencevich, MD, a prevention specialist at the University of Iowa’s College of Medicine.

“There’s no evidence that wearing masks on healthy people will protect them. [If] they wear them incorrectly, and *they can increase the risk of infection because they’re* *touching their face more often*,” said the professor, as reported by Forbes."


----------



## no really

keenataz said:


> My issue is not mortality rate among reported cases, it is I believe a lot of cases do not get reported. Right now I have a stuffed nose and chest congestion. Am I going to doctor, no. why would I. And I expect many others are the same.


I have the feeling that is the exact same attitude most have. I think that most places there have been confirmed cases have many more unreported cases that never developed into the need to see a doctor. We have had influenza A & B in large amounts, most people don't go the the doctor unless it develops into a serious respiratory problem.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-02-...es-in-air-not-confirmed-NWhBQtItZm/index.html
"The National Health Commission (NHC) Saturday reiterated that the major transmission routes of the new coronavirus are still respiratory droplets and contact, and other *routes such as aerosol transmission and fecal-oral transmission remain to be confirmed.* 

The statement, published in the "Question and Answer" section of the NHC's website, came amid speculation about the possible transmission of the deadly coronavirus through aerosols, or smaller particles that can travel a longer distance than droplets from a patient's sneezing or coughing. 

Aerosol transmission refers to when the respiratory droplets lose water in the air, and the leftover proteins and pathogens form nuclei or dust floats far away in the form of aerosols, causing long-distance transmissions, the NHC said, citing Feng Luzhao, a researcher at the Department of Infectious Diseases at the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention. 

*"There is no proof of novel coronavirus transmission through aerosols so far," it added. * 

"Epidemiological investigations have shown that most of the confirmed cases used to have close contact with infected patients," the commission said. "


----------



## DianeWV

8 coronavirus deaths now in Washington.


----------



## robin416

There's one in NY now in serious condition. One of his teenage sons is also showing signs of the virus. Another community spread.


----------



## MoonRiver

The other side of the argument.


> “This *pathogen has all the signs of being ‘the big one*,’” said Lewis, who is among those at the Biocomplexity Institute who works in a research partnership with AccuWeather. “When current estimates for COVID-19 are compared to the 1918 pandemic, they are eerily similar. The outcomes will likely be different given modern medicine; however, *the impact on society and its functioning is likely to be significant*.”


https://www.accuweather.com/en/heal...ld-be-the-hurricane-sandy-of-epidemics/694787


----------



## newfieannie

i read that they are not giving out the presumptive cases in NB and NS only the confirmed. i feel uneasy about it but i'm not sure why. probably because Ontario and the other places have been so open about it. i guess there's nothing to be concerned about. ~Georgia


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> The other side of the argument.


From your source:


> “*If this virus behaves like others and peaks sometime in the next 60 days*, that will give us time to work on vaccines and treatment because it will not likely return until next October and November,” said AccuWeather Founder and CEO Dr. Joel N. Myers.


I see little reason to think it won't act like other viruses.


----------



## Elevenpoint

I found a vaccine that is working great.
Stock up before word gets out.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> From your source:
> 
> I see little reason to think it won't act like other viruses.


Thanks you, Dr Bearfoot!


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Thanks you, Dr Bearfoot!


It came from your own source.
Do you know any logical reason why this virus would be radically different from others?


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> It came from your own source.
> Do you know any logical reason why this virus would be radically different from others?


Possibly. I will use the term variation because I don't know the correct term to use. 

There are several variations of the virus in US already, meaning they came from different sources (China, Italy, Iran, etc). The virus has slight mutations. The mutations that will survive are the ones that infect the most people. If that virus strain also has a mutation of being more deadly, then we have a huge problem.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

If. If. If.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> There are *several variations* of the virus in US already, meaning they came from different sources (China, Italy, Iran, etc). The virus has slight mutations. The mutations that will survive are the ones that infect the most people. *If* that virus strain also has a mutation of being more deadly, then we have a huge problem.


The proper term is "strain".



> In biology, a strain is a low-level taxonomic rank used in three related ways. A strain is a genetic variant or subtype of a micro-organism (e.g., virus or bacterium or fungus). For example, a "flu strain" is a certain biological form of the influenza or "flu" virus. Compare clade.
> *Strain (biology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*


It's totally normal for viruses to mutate.
They can mutate rapidly and the next one could just as easily render it harmless.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> The proper term is "strain"
> It's totally normal for viruses to mutate.
> They can mutate rapidly and the next one could just as easily render it harmless.





Alice In TX/MO said:


> If. If. If.


No if's. That's how it works. Just like us, the main goals of the virus are to survive and propagate.

I was trying to put into words an image I saw of all the different strains of the virus that have been identified so far and the different scenarios that can play out. To survive and propagate, the strain that infects the most people is the one that will likely survive. We have to hope that is a less virulent strain, but it may not be. Hopefully, killing of the host is not a good way for it to perpetuate itself.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

“IF that virus strain also has a mutation of being more deadly, then we have a huge problem.”

I am weary of the focus on the dreadful and negative ifs.

True story instead of if...


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/03/opinion/coronavirus-quarantine.html?referringSource=articleShare


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Just like us, the main *goals of the virus* are to survive and propagate.


Viruses don't have goals.
They aren't even "alive" in any true sense of the word.



MoonRiver said:


> I was trying to put into words an image I saw of all the *different strains of the virus that have been identified* so far and the different scenarios that can play out.


Can you show your source for this?
The only one I've heard of causing the problems is this one:


> *Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2* (*SARS-CoV-2*),[1][2] previously known by the provisional name *2019 novel coronavirus* (*2019-nCoV*),[3][4][5] is a positive-sense single-stranded RNA virus.[6][7] It is contagious in humans and is the cause of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).[8]
> 
> From a taxonomic perspective SARS-CoV-2 is classified as *a strain* of the species _severe acute respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus_ (SARSr-CoV).[1]
> 
> *It is the seventh known coronavirus to infect people*, after 229E, NL63, OC43, HKU1, MERS-CoV, and the original SARS-CoV.[38]


----------



## Evons hubby

Thus far I am not overly concerned. We have no vaccinations nor cures for the common cold either. Using common sense should keep this virus at approximately the same level. Doctor it with grannies home remedies and suffer through it for only seven days, or tough it out for a whole week.


----------



## geo in mi

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Thus far I am not overly concerned. We have no vaccinations nor cures for the common cold either. Using common sense should keep this virus at approximately the same level. Doctor it with grannies home remedies and suffer through it for only seven days, or tough it out for a whole week.


If we were using Granny's remedies, there might rather be a shortage of garlic and carbolic acid.

Oh yes, goose grease and kerosene.

geo


----------



## GTX63

If you were using grannies recipes they would look similar to post #103.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> Viruses don't have goals.
> They aren't even "alive" in any true sense of the word.
> 
> Can you show your source for this?
> The only one I've heard of causing the problems is this one:


They may not be "alive", but they still need to propagate to continue to exist.

The source is the most recent peak prosperity video on coronavirus. Both the image of the different strains and how they might mutate are in the video.


----------



## geo in mi

Someone yesterday--on one of these forums had questions about the extreme stages of the virus infection and how the lungs are affected. This National Geographic article is something I found that might be of help. Hospital procedures, treatments, and outcomes here are largely based on what is known with SARS and MERS experience. Be aware, you will probably have to give your email and consent to receive messages in order to read the whole thing.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/02/here-is-what-coronavirus-does-to-the-body/

As an older person, I am interested in what point is intubation recommended--and what shape the lungs will be in if the procedure is effective. Not being morbid, but for older people, this is for advanced directory issues. 

geo


----------



## SLADE

I see at the present corona19 will kill 10 to 20 times more people than the flu.


----------



## MoonRiver

Just watched an interesting video of a former CDC disease detective - someone who talks to a person who has the disease and tries to trace back where they have been and following all the branches from that path. She said we are past the point of containment and now the action is to try to slow the spread. She also made this interesting point - we should be focusing on the people most likely to require critical care instead of the population at large. In my words, focus on the 20%, not the 80% who will have no or mild symptoms.

She also said some patients were being billed as much as $3000 for the tests. This needs to be addressed immediately or some people who need to be tested won't if they know it will cost them $3000.

I'm sure we have great doctors and scientists at NIH and CDC, but the leadership seems questionable to me. They are too slow to make decisions and are in re-active mode instead of pro-active.

I watched an interview with Peter Thiel a few days ago and he discussed how moving science into government had a long term negative effect. That at some point, scientists become bureaucrats and are reluctant to make decisions. That seems to me to explain what is going on. It's not NIH scientists developing vaccines and anti-viral treatments, but the private sector. There should be fewer bureaucrats on the task force and more private sector people. Both public and private sectors should be mobilized in a coordinated effort.

I'm not trying to make a political argument. I'm just making the point that any government is slow in acting to an emergency situation. Once they get geared up they perform well, but time to respond is typically slow.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> The proper term is "strain".


Just saw an article that says 2 strains of the virus have been identified so far, so it's not strain I was referring to. What I am talking about is a slight change in the rna. But it may be good news, unfortunately the article doesn't make clear if they only looked at samples from China or worldwide.


> Researchers in China have found that two different types of the new coronavirus could be causing infections worldwide.
> 
> In a preliminary study published Tuesday, scientists at Peking University’s School of Life Sciences and the Institut Pasteur of Shanghai found that a more aggressive type of the new coronavirus had accounted for roughly 70% of analyzed strains, while 30% had been linked to a less aggressive type.
> 
> The *more aggressive type of virus *was found to be prevalent in the early stages of the outbreak in Wuhan — the Chinese city where COVID-19 was first detected late last year.
> 
> *But the frequency of this type of virus has since decreased from early January.*


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/04/coronavirus-chinese-scientists-identify-two-types-covid-19.html


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> peak prosperity


I see most of their stuff as:






















MoonRiver said:


> Both the image of the different strains and how they *might* mutate are in the video.


So it's speculation rather than actual fact.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> I see most of their stuff as:
> 
> So it's speculation rather than actual fact.


He has been right on target about a week before WHO and CDC. 

I never made any claim it was fact. It was presented as what might possibly happen based on how viruses mutate.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Just saw an article that says 2 strains of the virus have been identified so far, so *it's not strain* I was referring to. What I am talking about is a slight *change in the rna*. But it may be good news, unfortunately the article doesn't make clear if they only looked at samples from China or worldwide.


Any mutational change creates a new "strain".



> *A strain is a genetic variant* or subtype of a microorganism (e.g., virus or bacterium or fungus ). For example, a "flu strain" is a certain biological form of the influenza or "flu" virus. These flu *strains are characterized by their differing isoforms of surface proteins*


. 

From your source:


> The researchers said their results indicate the development of *new variations* of the spike in COVID-19 cases was “likely caused by *mutations* and natural selection besides recombination.”


It's behaving just like all other coronaviruses.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> It was presented as what *might possibly happen* based on how viruses mutate.


That's what I said.
*Speculation*.

It could just as easily mutate in the other direction and become inert, but saying that wouldn't draw more hits to their website.


----------



## mreynolds

elevenpoint said:


> I found a vaccine that is working great.
> Stock up before word gets out.
> View attachment 84286


I like beer I can't pronounce.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

mreynolds said:


> I like beer I *can't pronounce*.


That's *all* of them if you drink enough at one time.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> Any mutational change creates a new "strain".
> From your source:
> It's behaving just like all other coronaviruses.


Strain and mutation are 2 different things. 

A mutation could, but doesn't necessarily create a new strain _unless it changes the isoform of surface proteins._ 


> Flu strains are characterized by their *differing isoforms of surface proteins. *New viral strains can be created due to mutation or swapping of genetic components when two or more viruses infect the same cell in nature[


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strain_(biology)

We should stop here as we are both in over our heads.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Strain and mutation are 2 different things.


A "mutation" in a virus creates a new "strain"



MoonRiver said:


> A mutation could, but doesn't necessarily create a new strain _unless it changes the isoform of surface proteins._


Any genetic variation constitutes a new strain, since they behave differently.

Read what *you* posted:


> Flu strains are characterized by their differing isoforms of surface proteins.* New viral strains can be created due to mutation or swapping of genetic components* when two or more viruses infect the same cell in nature[


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/04/coronavirus-chinese-scientists-identify-two-types-covid-19.html


> Chinese scientists identify *two strains* of the coronavirus, indicating it’s already *mutated* at least once


----------



## keenataz

mreynolds said:


> I like beer I can't pronounce.


Bud-weez-er


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> A "mutation" in a virus creates a new "strain"
> Any genetic variation constitutes a new strain, since they behave differently.
> Read what *you* posted:
> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/04/coronavirus-chinese-scientists-identify-two-types-covid-19.html


As I said and you don't seem to get. A mutation CAN cause a new strain to be created - ONLY if that mutation results in a change in the isoforms of surface proteins. 

That means the way the virus attaches to the cell. If a mutation occurs that doesn't change the isoforms of surface proteins then it doesn't change how the virus attaches to a cell and so it is not a new strain. But the mutation is still useful in tracking where the virus came from - Italy, China. But that doesn't mean that the virus coming from Italy and the one coming from China are different strains, although they could be.

Like I said, this is beyond the knowledge level of either of us, so why don't we just drop it.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

This. I do realize the irony.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> so it is not a new strain.


They are calling the variations new "strains".


----------



## Chris in Mich

The more carriers who are asymptomatic or otherwise undiagnosed, the more the virus will spread -- even if not a global killer it may excel at "thinning the herd".

"Tough guys" may weather the storm just fine and go about their day-to-day routine all the while passing it on to untold multitudes.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Chris in Mich said:


> The more carriers who are asymptomatic or otherwise undiagnosed, the more the virus will spread -- even if not a global killer it may excel at "thinning the herd".


Just like most coronaviruses.
If all those cases were counted it would also lower the mortality rate by a huge amount.


----------



## MoonRiver

One reason the virus will continue to spread.


----------



## SLADE

What? too much cleaning?


----------



## MoonRiver

SRSLADE said:


> What? too much cleaning?


No mask, no eye protection. They believe there is the possibility of the virus being on a surface which is why they are disinfecting. If you have seen pictures of people in other countries disinfecting they are in full body protection.


----------



## SLADE

Good point.


----------



## MoonRiver

MoonRiver said:


> She also said some patients were being billed as much as $3000 for the tests. This needs to be addressed immediately or some people who need to be tested won't if they know it will cost them $3000.


I am watching the newest video from Dr John Campbell and he said he just learned that US is not charging people for the test. Just wanted to correct my earlier post.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> No mask, no eye protection.


Nothing on those surfaces can infect them unless they transfer it from hand to eye, nose or mouth.


----------



## MoonRiver

This is good information starting at about the 11 minute mark to about the 15 minute mark. He is specifically talking about UK, but it is general information of use to anyone.


----------



## Dutchie

Wash your hands. With soap. Often.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> This is good information starting at about the 11 minute mark to about the 15 minute mark. He is specifically talking about UK, but it is general information of use to anyone.


I heard nothing that I hadn't heard weeks ago.


----------



## Elevenpoint

mreynolds said:


> I like beer I can't pronounce.


Then you'll really like this one, german wheat is very good but the dunkel is great.
I found these today, I haven't had one in 15 years. 3.49 per bottle.


----------



## MoonRiver

There are 2 strains of the virus - S and L. L -spreads quickly, more severe, S-milder, less infectious. It appears the isolation procedures used by China decreased the frequency of the L strain.

It is possible to get both strains. At least 1 person who had the disease had both strains. It is possible that the virus could come in 2 waves - one with L strain and one with S strain.

https://academic.oup.com/nsr/advance-article/doi/10.1093/nsr/nwaa036/5775463


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Excellent article 

https://www.propublica.org/article/...estions-we-should-be-asking-about-coronavirus


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Excellent article


Yes, it was.


----------



## po boy

Yes, good article.


----------



## SLADE

the article claims the death rate is higher than the seasonal flue yet lower than sars.
what I see as we still have flue is the deaths will be higher than flue X 2
Maybe 3.4


----------



## Evons hubby

SRSLADE said:


> the article claims the death rate is higher than the seasonal flue yet lower than sars.
> what I see as we still have flue is the deaths will be higher than flue X 2
> Maybe 3.4


Mom nature and pop time aim to get us all somehow. So far they are running 100%!


----------



## MoonRiver

All questions with no answers. Also didn't bring up masks or strains. I think we have discussed here everything she wrote in the article.


----------



## no really

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Excellent article
> 
> https://www.propublica.org/article/...estions-we-should-be-asking-about-coronavirus


Excellent article, thanks. Passed it on to others.


----------



## MoonRiver

I haven't seen anything about antivirals lately. Anyone know how US is treating severe cases of COVID-19?


----------



## SLADE

Real facts and information are very hard to find. If at all.


----------



## robin416

If the antivirals had worked I'm sure we would have heard something by now.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Anyone know how US is treating severe cases of COVID-19?


About all anyone can do for a virus is treat the symptoms.


----------



## MoonRiver

I was wondering if the virus travels in a straight line when in droplet form or airborne. As I read this article, droplet is a straight line - someone coughs and a droplet hits you, but with airborne, the virus is in a mist so you might suck it in when you breath or it simply lands on you as the enter the mist.

This article is about Ebola, but is an excellent explanation as to how viruses spread.


> 1. Droplet route: The pathogen falls to the ground in large droplets. The pathogen doesn't make it very far away from the source of the fluid, but if you intercept the drop's path, you could get infected.
> 
> 2. Airborne route: The pathogen is lifted up into the air inside tiny droplets. The pathogen floats and can move long distances with air currents. If you inhale this mist, you could get infected.


----------



## MoonRiver

Looks like there is a good possibility the antiviral Remdesivir may be helpful. Currently NIH is running clinical trial.



> “He was *day nine in his course and he actually started going downhill, started getting worse*,” said Compton-Phillips, chief clinical officer of Providence St. Joseph Health, where the patient was treated.
> 
> At first, the patient only had common cold-like symptoms, Compton-Phillips said. But very quickly he began to have shortness of breath and a cough, she said. His X-ray also showed viral pneumonia. He needed supplemental oxygen and had to be put on an *experimental antiviral treatment*.


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/06/doc...has-been-circulating-unchecked-for-weeks.html



> Health experts believe that the antiviral (Remdesivir) will show sufficient efficacy to warrant widespread deployment in an effort to corral the outbreak. A little over a month ago, the first confirmed case in the U.S., a man in Seattle, responded well to treatment. All symptoms, except his cough, resolved within a week.


https://seekingalpha.com/news/3549482-gilead-up-3-ahead-of-expected-covidminus-19-drug-data-readout

"The National Institutes of Health recently announced the use of the antiviral drug, remdesivir, in the nation’s first clinical trials for experimental treatments. Published in the _Journal of Biological Chemistry,_ the *data showed promising results* against COVID-19."

https://medicalnewsbulletin.com/remdesivir-antiviral-for-covid-19/​


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I was wondering if the virus travels in a straight line when in droplet form or airborne.


Both are affected by air currents. 
Droplets from a cough or sneeze will follow a curved trajectory if they are too heavy to stay suspended in the air.
Lighter particles drift until they hit some surface and stick.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Austin just cancelled the South By Southwest Festival. It's a HUGE event that runs a week in the music/entertainment area and other parts of town. Some of the technology folks and some of the music folks had cancelled already, but this is a surprise.


----------



## gleepish

I think it's safe to say that quarantines in the Unites States need some work. The cruise ship passengers were sent to facilities in California, Nebraska, Texas, Utah and Washington State.

Just look at the number of cases in those states:
Washington 84 
California 75 
Texas 17 
Nebraska 14 
Utah 1 (Ok, so maybe Utah is doing something right... )


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

My neighbor just got back from a doctor appointment. A man came in the office who had just returned from Seattle and wasn’t feeling well. They made all the other patients stay in their rooms till he was tested. Negative.


----------



## Lisa in WA

T


gleepish said:


> I think it's safe to say that quarantines in the Unites States need some work. The cruise ship passengers were sent to facilities in California, Nebraska, Texas, Utah and Washington State.
> 
> Just look at the number of cases in those states:
> Washington 84
> California 75
> Texas 17
> Nebraska 14
> Utah 1 (Ok, so maybe Utah is doing something right... )


The only cruise passengers sent to WA are or were in Spokane, where I live, and we have no Coronavirus here outside of those patients.


----------



## gleepish

Lisa in WA said:


> The only cruise passengers sent to WA are or were in Spokane, where I live, and we have no Coronavirus here outside of those patients.


I didn't know where in Washington they were being kept, just the state, so that's good news at least!


----------



## Lisa in WA

gleepish said:


> I didn't know where in Washington they were being kept, just the state, so that's good news at least!


Two miles from my house. I was worried.


----------



## robin416

Lisa in WA said:


> Two miles from my house. I was worried.


That's a little close for comfort.


----------



## gleepish

Lisa in WA said:


> Two miles from my house. I was worried.


yeah, I imagine you were.


----------



## newfieannie

there are a couple service guys who just came back from italy i think it was. they weren't feeling well. they will know monday or tuesday. that is the first i've heard of around here. ~Georgia


----------



## gleepish

The cruise ship off of California had 21 cases come back positive. 19 crew members and two passengers.


----------



## MoonRiver

gleepish said:


> The cruise ship off of California had 21 cases come back positive. 19 crew members and two passengers.


I think they tested less than 50 people. I'm guessing maybe they only tested people with symptoms. All will be tested after they dock, so it will be interesting in see those results.


----------



## MoonRiver

I found this video very interesting. Some may not want to watch as it is not good news if it plays out as he thinks it likely will.


----------



## gleepish

MoonRiver said:


> I think they tested less than 50 people. I'm guessing maybe they only tested people with symptoms. All will be tested after they dock, so it will be interesting in see those results.


I heard less than 100 but I don't know the numbers. 

I do know there is another cruise ship on the way back to Fort Lauderdale after being denied entry at the port for Grand Turk. The daughter of a friend is onboard... here is what they sent to the passengers. 










Why anyone would step foot on a cruise ship at this time is beyond me.


----------



## robin416

gleepish said:


> I heard less than 100 but I don't know the numbers.
> 
> I do know there is another cruise ship on the way back to Fort Lauderdale after being denied entry at the port for Grand Turk. The daughter of a friend is onboard... here is what they sent to the passengers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why anyone would step foot on a cruise ship at this time is beyond me.


For many it was probably because the cruise operators wouldn't let them cancel.


----------



## gleepish

robin416 said:


> For many it was probably because the cruise operators wouldn't let them cancel.


For the one I know, it was because the rates were 'too good to pass up' supposedly.


----------



## robin416

It's probably been two weeks now but I read where someone tried to cancel their trip because of the virus but the operators said no way. So, it was about the money lost to the people taking the cruise.


----------



## gleepish

Oh I'm sure that loss of money is definite contributor for many of the cases


----------



## barnbilder

It would be highly illogical to think that the Corona virus hasn't been in circulation in China for far longer than anyone was aware of it. Or that it hasn't been in circulation here before anyone heard of it. Or that there haven't been people that have had it and got over it that will never be tested.

It's a cold. People will get it, get over it, never get tested. And never give it a thought, just like the colds and flus we already have.


----------



## robin416

barnbilder said:


> It would be highly illogical to think that the Corona virus hasn't been in circulation in China for far longer than anyone was aware of it. Or that it hasn't been in circulation here before anyone heard of it. Or that there haven't been people that have had it and got over it that will never be tested.
> 
> It's a cold. People will get it, get over it, never get tested. And never give it a thought, just like the colds and flus we already have.


Logic tells me that I want no part of it because it could kill me. I at least can be innoculated against the flu. I'm in that age group that shows it being most lethal.


----------



## gleepish

barnbilder said:


> It would be highly illogical to think that the Corona virus hasn't been in circulation in China for far longer than anyone was aware of it. Or that it hasn't been in circulation here before anyone heard of it. Or that there haven't been people that have had it and got over it that will never be tested.
> 
> It's a cold. People will get it, get over it, never get tested. And never give it a thought, just like the colds and flus we already have.


The numbers coming out of Italy do not support that it is 'a cold'. The numbers out of South Korea do not support that it is 'a cold'. 

But what it ultimately comes down to is that there is nothing that can be said at this point to make people think differently. Just like there isn't anything that can be said now to make those who are worried about Covid-19 feel as if it's just 'a cold'. Like I've said before, time will tell on this one. I hope your thoughts will show to be true, but I'm afraid it's the worriers that are going to prove to be correct on this one.


----------



## MoonRiver

If half the population of US gets the virus, and this may be a conservative estimate as modeling indicates 40% - 70%, that's about 160 million people. If 15% of those have a serious case, that's 24 million people. I doubt if US healthcare facilities can handle that load, so there will be triage (think of Mash, but without Hawkeye). If only 1% die, that's 1.6 million people. Hardly the flu or a cold.

The video I posted a few posts back talks about treating the virus as war. He used the example of the British during the Blitz of 1940-41. The British banded together to survive. He is suggesting that governments should make the same type of call to their citizens. The battle against the virus depends on people acting responsibly.

That we should focus on those most vulnerable. The biggest danger may be that younger people, who are much less likely to have a critical case or even have symptoms, may behave recklessly, endangering those who are more vulnerable. That we need to immediately start educating the population on how to minimize risk and why it is important.


----------



## gleepish

MoonRiver said:


> That we should focus on those most vulnerable. The biggest danger may be that younger people, who are much less likely to have a critical case or even have symptoms, may behave recklessly, endangering those who are more vulnerable. That we need to immediately start educating the population on how to minimize risk and why it is important.


^^***This***^^


----------



## gleepish

Lisa in WA said:


> Two miles from my house. I was worried.


I saw last night (and this morning) that there are 5 cases in WA at an 'Unassigned Location'... be careful, and stay safe (and healthy!)


----------



## Lisa in WA

gleepish said:


> I saw last night (and this morning) that there are 5 cases in WA at an 'Unassigned Location'... be careful, and stay safe (and healthy!)


So far all confirmed cases are on the other side of the state. The farthest East is in Grant County...still a ways away from us. Of course that will change, and two more are being tested in my County.


----------



## Lisa in WA

News just came out that a Starbucks employee in downtown Seattle has tested positive. We were supposed to be there right now. We canceled.


----------



## doozie

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/06/health/coronavirus-older-people-social-distancing/index.html

I have not followed the CDCwebsite, but my DH and I were just discussing possibly staying put for a while. I'm not sure if I'm being illogical or proactive at this point...
Age for us both being a consideration.


----------



## barnbilder

It's the cold. Like other strains of Corona that are the cold. Which are like other strains of other virus species that fall under the name "common cold". The only difference is that it is supposedly new, and there is no herd immunity built in from people previously having it. We have absolutely no way of making an educated guess as to what the mortality rate is. Maybe in ten years we could get an idea of that. Most people that have flu like symptoms will never get tested. Only people that die in nursing homes and hospitals might be tested, and then we can make guesses based on how many people that were at the end of their life had the Covid-19 pathogen instead of any of the others.


----------



## SLADE

Tick tick tick time will tell.


----------



## anniew

Barn, you are putting a positive spin on something that maybe doesn't deserve it. If people take the information available (without so much positive spin) then they will better prepare and do more social distancing which might be the best two things to stay free of the virus.
Nothing is an either/or...you get house insurance in case, so in similar fashion, get preps to stay isolated for a few weeks, especially if there is any virus activity in your area...or even if not, since it appears that asymptomatic people can spread it just as easily. 
Being too positive may end with even more cases, since it is only "a cold" when more diligence due to an "if" factor could save you, family and friends from coming down with the virus and/or even dying from it.
If individuals want some information ahead of the curve, google the HalTurner Radio Show where M-F 9-10 pm (Eastern time) he gives information about where and how many cases have been confirmed (in the US and other countries), as well as information that he gets from his former colleagues in an alphabet govt agency around the globe. His information is often a couple/few days before the mass media has it. Google the show, and then you can listen live and/or call in to listen. About half the show each evening is people calling in to "report" what may be happening in their region...as well as some who give "remedies" for the virus (that I take with a grain of salt).
Good luck and good health to everyone.


----------



## MichaelZ

Bearfootfarm said:


> It came from your own source.
> Do you know any logical reason why this virus would be radically different from others?


100 times the mortality rate.
Typical flu virus, 50,000 deaths and 50,000,000 cases. 1 per 1000 = 0.1% https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
Coronavirus, 100,000 cases, and 3500 + 6000 potential deaths = close to 10% https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MichaelZ said:


> 100 times the mortality rate.


Not really.
The numbers are incomplete.

Nearly 80% of those infected with Coronavirus never show symptoms, or they are so mild they require no treatment.

That also has no relation to what I said about it's *comparison* to other Coronaviruses.


----------



## MoonRiver

A thought. If you have to go to the grocery store, or any place really, I'm thinking it might be safest to go right at opening. My reasoning is that if anyone was in the store the previous day and shed any virus, droplets should no longer be in the air and possibly any virus on a surface has died by then. Later in the day might lead to more exposure to droplets, airborne particles, or surface contamination.

With hand washing right after leaving the store, that's probably the best you can do without wearing a mask, gloves, and goggles.


----------



## MichaelZ

At a minimum, there is over a 3% mortality rate. That is 30 times the rate of a typical flu virus. I post this because many here, like myself, are in the higher risk groups of 60+ years old. Take action now to boost your immune system. A good supplement would be liposomal (slow release) Vitamin C. Also B6 and Vitamin E.


----------



## Hiro

barnbilder said:


> It's the cold. Like other strains of Corona that are the cold. Which are like other strains of other virus species that fall under the name "common cold". The only difference is that it is supposedly new, and there is no herd immunity built in from people previously having it. We have absolutely no way of making an educated guess as to what the mortality rate is. Maybe in ten years we could get an idea of that. Most people that have flu like symptoms will never get tested. Only people that die in nursing homes and hospitals might be tested, and then we can make guesses based on how many people that were at the end of their life had the Covid-19 pathogen instead of any of the others.


This experiment has already been run with a large sample size, skewed towards elderly on top of that. The Japanese half-assed that quarantine of the Diamond Princess just to get the numbers, which is why the US broke it with just a day to go to get their lab rats out.

Here are the official results:

https://www.livescience.com/is-coronavirus-deadly.html


----------



## MoonRiver

Although we have repeatedly been told face masks don't work, the CDC website says in several articles that face masks should be worn. Here's one example: 



> *Assess the Suitability of the Residential Setting for Home Care*
> In consultation with state or local health department staff, a healthcare professional should assess whether the residential setting is appropriate for home care. Considerations for care at home include whether:
> 
> The patient is stable enough to receive care at home.
> Appropriate caregivers are available at home.
> There is a separate bedroom where the patient can recover without sharing immediate space with others.
> Resources for access to food and other necessities are available.
> The patient and *other household members have access to appropriate, recommended personal protective equipment (at a minimum, gloves and facemask) *and are capable of adhering to precautions recommended as part of home care or isolation (e.g., respiratory hygiene and cough etiquette, hand hygiene);
> There are household members who may be at increased risk of complications from 2019-nCoV infection (.e.g., people >65 years old, young children, pregnant women, people who are immunocompromised or who have chronic heart, lung, or kidney conditions).



https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/guidance-home-care.html


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Although we have repeatedly been told face masks don't work, the CDC website says in several articles that face masks should be worn.


That's for those infected and those who are in close contact with them over time.
They have repeatedly stated there is no advantage to wearing a mask for the general public.
It says so in the first sentence:
[/QUOTE]This interim guidance is for staff at local and state health departments, infection prevention and control professionals, and healthcare personnel who are coordinating the home care and isolation1 of people with confirmed or suspected 2019-nCoV infection, including persons under investigation (see Criteria to Guide Evaluation of Persons Under Investigation (PUI) for 2019-nCoV). T[/QUOTE]



> *The patient and* *other household members*


Things need to be kept *in context* to have any real value:

https://www.jpost.com/International...cemasks-as-they-dont-prevent-infection-619333


> *CDC asks public to stop buying facemasks as they don't prevent infection*
> *"Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!" wrote the Surgeon General. "They are NOT effective in preventing the general public from catching coronavirus."*


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's for those infected and those who are in close contact with them over time.
> They have repeatedly stated there is no advantage to wearing a mask for the general public.


They can't have it both ways. Either they work to prevent the spread of the virus or they don't. It's a very simple equation. The mask doesn't know if the virus came from a family member or a stranger in the grocery store. Either it prevents the spread of the virus or it doesn't.

The government would have been much better of saying that there is a shortage and the best use which helps the most people is to reserve all the masks for health care professionals. And if I find a package of 2 masks at Lowes and buy them, I can't see how that subtracts from what health care professionals have. If I don't buy them, someone else will. If the government needed them, they should ask Lowes, not me.


----------



## SLADE

MichaelZ said:


> At a minimum, there is over a 3% mortality rate. That is 30 times the rate of a typical flu virus. I post this because many here, like myself, are in the higher risk groups of 60+ years old. Take action now to boost your immune system. A good supplement would be liposomal (slow release) Vitamin C. Also B6 and Vitamin E.
> View attachment 84488


3%  9816000 dead


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> They can't have it both ways. Either they work to prevent the spread of the virus or they don't.


Sure they can.
They explained the different scenarios.



MoonRiver said:


> The government would have been much better of saying that there is a shortage and the best use which helps the most people is to reserve all the masks for health care professionals.


That's precisely what they said.
There's no point in wearing them for the public at large.



MoonRiver said:


> If I don't buy them, someone else will.


That's the mindset that creates artificial shortages and promotes unnecessary hoarding.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> 3%  9816000 dead


You keep falsely assuming everyone in the country will be infected.


----------



## SLADE

I wonder what the number would be if we include flu?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> I wonder what the number would be *if* we include flu?


The overall mortality rate is 100%.


----------



## SLADE

I wonder how the eat all you want joints are making out during these trying times?


----------



## romysbaskets

SRSLADE said:


> I wonder how the eat all you want joints are making out during these trying times?


Probably not as good as it would seem as all that open foods..not just them affected though. Here where we live most restaurants are empty. My husband met our daughter out to eat at fish place that is normally full with lines out the door. There was only one table besides theirs at dinner time. It was a treat so we seldom go out to eat. We drove the mild downtown to get groceries..not many. As we passed businesses and restaurants, they were empty. We live on an island across from Seattle. We saw that Pikes market was empty and Seattle is a ghost town! Event are being cancelled including an annual meeting for Microsoft, Tom Cruise announced they were canceling the shoot of his next movie....music events are being canceled and schools are closing down.


----------



## romysbaskets

My sons both work an equal diistance from the nursing home with the deaths! 17.2 miles and the son turning just 22 years old is in charge of the maintenance, emergency measures and construction needs of a larger one!!! My other son is a music teacher for Rock School in Lynnwood. They have some students cancelling lessons but this may just take out his job. If the students cancel in mass quantity....they will shut down. My daughter is in Australia with my grandson on a business trip/fun trip. She was extended there. Something people may not know is that HAND HELD STEAMERS KILL THIS ON SURFACES. The steam from a hand held steamer is hot enough to kill this virus. So this said, I clean homes locally and use a steamer on the surfaces. For those wanting to clean their car doors and handles...a quick steam will do the trick. You can make your own hand sanitizer with aloe vera gel and some alcohol. I am prepared to stay home long term if needed at some point. My sister gave me an oxygen machine last year during the risk of more fires which blanketed our city the year prior..plus she sent me masks that are rated 95. Unknowlngly...she set me up!!!


----------



## Lisa in WA

romysbaskets said:


> Probably not as good as it would seem. Here where we live most restaurants are empty. My husband met our daughter out to eat at fish place that is normally full with lines out the door. There was only one table besides theirs at dinner time. It was a treat so we seldom go out to eat. We drove the mild downtown to get groceries..not many. As we passed businesses and restaurants, they were empty. We live on an island across from Seattle. We saw that Pikes market was empty and Seattle is a ghost town! Event are being cancelled including an annual meeting for Microsoft, Tom Cruise announced they were canceling the shoot of his next movie....music events are being canceled and schools are closing down.


yeah, I was checking out a webcam at the fish market at Pike Market and it’s crazy uncrowded. Normally it would be wall to wall people.


----------



## SLADE

the toll this could take on local business is scary.


----------



## MoonRiver

SRSLADE said:


> the toll this could take on local business is scary.


It has the potential to be much worse than the obvious. People will change their behavior in some circumstances. For example, people will stop going to movie theaters, but will they start going back to the movies in the same numbers in the future, or will they stay home and rely on Netflix?

Another example is some companies will postpone upgrades or new product releases. They might be pushed back 6 months or more, so sales will be slow to pick back up again.

Some companies are going to be hit hard financially and probably have to layoff employees. It may take a couple of years for these companies to get back to where they were, if at all.

It's likely quite a few companies will declare bankruptcy. They will think they only have to hang on for 2 or 4 months,so they go deeper into debt, not realizing how long it will take for business to build back up again. It's not like there is a starting date and ending date to this crisis.

I always prepared for 3 bad things to happen at once, but I think this would have done my business in. This crisis is looking more and more like 911 to me. An overvalued stock market, a massive jolt to the economy, widespread panic and anxiety, and a slow recovery.


----------



## barnbilder

It will be hard for businesses in the short term. Until people figure out how stupid their schemes to avoid infection really are, and how inconsequential the disease really is.


----------



## SLADE

barnbilder said:


> It will be hard for businesses in the short term. Until people figure out how stupid their schemes to avoid infection really are, and how inconsequential the disease really is.


Many businesses will not come back.
Many people will not pay for cars, mortgage, rental etc as they have no work.


----------



## MoonRiver

barnbilder said:


> It will be hard for businesses in the short term. Until people figure out how stupid their schemes to avoid infection really are, and how inconsequential the disease really is.


As long as people believe it is inconsequential, the worse it will be. The 80% that don't have a severe case are still carriers. They are deadly to the other 20%.


----------



## MoonRiver

I've just scanned this article and will read it thoroughly when I get a chance.

All Hospital Beds In The US Will Be Filled With Patients 'By About May 8th' Due To Coronavirus: Analysis


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I've just scanned this article and will read it thoroughly when I get a chance.


I stopped at "ZeroHedge".
They lack credibility and promote hysteria.




> ://www.*zerohedge.com*/health/all-hospital-beds-us-will-be-filled-coronavirus-patients-about-may-8th-according-analysis


----------



## gleepish

MoonRiver said:


> I've just scanned this article and will read it thoroughly when I get a chance.
> 
> All Hospital Beds In The US Will Be Filled With Patients 'By About May 8th' Due To Coronavirus: Analysis


I figure that China built the 'quick build' hospitals for a reason. Once enough people have progressed to the 'severe' stage our hospitals will be full and--like is Washington--we'll be looking at other options like schools, hotels, motels..... I don't know if it will take all the way to May 8th, but I could see it happening.


----------



## MoonRiver

I think I am going to start self isolating in a few days. I was going to wait until there was a case in my area, but from what I have read, by the time they identify a case the virus has likely already been in the area for at least a couple of weeks.

Going to try to figure out what I might need over the next 2 or 3 months and get my shopping done. I'm good food wise, but want to make sure I have every thing I need for the garden and some repairs I have planned.


----------



## oregon woodsmok

My son works at a place that is near the container docks in Seattle. He and his coworkers use the same roads as the trucks picking up cargo from the docks. He says the cargo trucks have virtually disappeared, which means that no cargo ships are landing to be unloaded. Or at least, very few are landing. 

I'm guessing our normal shipments from China (and most of Asia?) are not landing.


----------



## newfieannie

yes if you wait for that you'll probably wait too long. this is flue season up here. every second one is sick i'm sick myself tonight. but i know what it is. i was out on the deck without my hood up . always gives me earache , stuffed up nose and whatnot.i just use old fashioned remedies vapor rub ,olive oil ,turpentine etc, etc,

we're waiting to see if the 2 servicemen are positive but likely other people have it. and think it's the flue. worst place to be is at emergency.if you didn't have it when you went in you'd likely get it. i wouldn't go down there unless i had all the symptoms of the virus.

i waited 7 hours when i had the kidney stone just to see someone. that was enough for me. it was wall to wall with patients out in the hallway. you can imagine at this time what it would be like. if i'm gonna die it's going to be in my own comfortable bed.

you'll never have everything you think you need MR. there will always be something. i started self isolating yesterday morning. i'm probably one of the ones BB thinks should just go off somewhere and die. like the elephants go to their graveyard when they are of no use anymore. 

my GGgf did just that in the 1800's but he was 104 and i still have a lot to offer and i'm doing everything i can to survive. i'm not being paranoid and panicky though. just plodding on. staying away from crowds and whatnot. as long as i have plenty books and grub etc.and i do, i'll be fine~Georgia


----------



## MoonRiver

newfieannie said:


> as long as i have plenty books and grub etc.and i do, i'll be fine~Georgia


My memory is so bad, I can reread a book about every 6 months.


----------



## newfieannie

i can't say that MR. my hearing and memory are excellent. when i talk to my brothers they ask me "how can you remember that you were just a baby"


----------



## MoonRiver

Something the news, government, and most reports seem to be ignoring is that there are 2 strains of the virus. One is worse than the other. I wish when a country released their statistics, they would identify which strain of the virus it was.


----------



## gleepish

Missouri (St. Louis County) just diagnosed the first case.  They are saying it's a young woman and was travel related (was studying in Italy). She is quarantined at home with her parents.


----------



## MoonRiver

gleepish said:


> Missouri (St. Louis County) just diagnosed the first case.  They are saying it's a young woman and was travel related (was studying in Italy). She is quarantined at home with her parents.


There are students from all over the world coming home to US. I think they all should have self-quarantined when they got to US, but what do I know.


----------



## Hiro

Bearfootfarm said:


> Maybe not everyone realizes that source is often unreliable.


Most sources are. Zerohedge provides valuable, sourced information if you can wade through the sensationalism and anti-semitic comments. They are a more reliable source of information and give where their info comes from much more clearly than the main stream press.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Hiro said:


> Zerohedge provides valuable, sourced information *if you can wade through the sensationalism and anti-semitic comments*.


Lately those have far outweighed any valuable bits of information that I can easily get from other sources without all that. 

Most of what was "sourced" in the link given was extrapolation rather than plain facts.
They have become click bait.


----------



## Hiro

Bearfootfarm said:


> Lately those have far outweighed any valuable bits of information that I can easily get from other sources without all that.
> 
> Most of what was "sourced" in the link given was extrapolation rather than plain facts.
> They have become click bait.


I agree wholeheartedly on that article. It assumed everyone was going to need hospitalization at the same time. Regardless, it doesn't mean that the the click bait mentality necessarily means you should discount everything they publish. They were on this issue long before as a potential issue long before ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, NYT, WaPo or anyone else. But, you get to choose your own sources just like everyone else. It is important to watch and see whether they cite where their information comes from....ZH does. The aforementioned seldom do.


----------



## wr

Second cleanup. There will be no other chances.


----------



## mreynolds

wr said:


> Second cleanup. There will be no other chances.


Do you have any disinfectant left or are the stores about out?


----------



## Miss Kay

This thing is moving fast now in our country, how fast we don't know due to the limited testing. Just as many on here have pointed out it will be nothing more than a bad cold for young people. Most have no sick days and no savings so they will go to work and not mention that they are sick. That girl that hands you a sandwich from the McDonalds window could give us 60+ year olds a virus that can be deadly. That boy that stocks the soup that I buy to stock up on could carry a deadly virus because he thinks it is no big deal to go to work with the sniffles. You may think this is nothing but Austin didn't drop South by SW for nothing, Italy hasn't locked down huge areas for nothing. I suppose some will be glad to see a thinning of the boomer generation but I've still got things I'd like to do before I go home to the big house. So for me, this is a big deal.


----------



## mreynolds

Miss Kay said:


> This thing is moving fast now in our country, how fast we don't know due to the limited testing. Just as many on here have pointed out it will be nothing more than a bad cold for young people. Most have no sick days and no savings so they will go to work and not mention that they are sick. That girl that hands you a sandwich from the McDonalds window could give us 60+ year olds a virus that can be deadly. That boy that stocks the soup that I buy to stock up on could carry a deadly virus because he thinks it is no big deal to go to work with the sniffles. You may think this is nothing but Austin didn't drop South by SW for nothing, Italy hasn't locked down huge areas for nothing. I suppose some will be glad to see a thinning of the boomer generation but I've still got things I'd like to do before I go home to the big house. So for me, this is a big deal.


This is what I have issue with too. Is a sniffle just a cold? Sinus allergy? Flu? Or something else? I never panic because whatever happens will happen. _*Often*_ without my consent. But it is something I do think about.

Like today, working at the hospital. I was on high alert even though the workers there say "There is nothing to worry about."


----------



## wr

mreynolds said:


> Do you have any disinfectant left or are the stores about out?


I think we still have some disinfectant available but I hear that Alberta is out of toilet paper.


----------



## Danaus29

Alice In TX/MO said:


> My neighbor just got back from a doctor appointment. A man came in the office who had just returned from Seattle and wasn’t feeling well. They made all the other patients stay in their rooms till he was tested. Negative.


From everything I have found it takes a couple days to get the results of the test. Even this article says 24 hours
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/03/02/colorado-coronavirus-testing/


----------



## mreynolds

wr said:


> *out of toilet paper.*


Good luck in the dark rooms then......

Just kidding of course. I don't envy your job at all. 

We should add a few zeros to your paycheck.


----------



## romysbaskets

Well there are many ways to make your own disinfectant hand gel. Aloe vera and alcohol is one with hopes some have Aloe plants like I do.bleach and water is another. I can post some recipes if its ok here? A hand held steamer is hot enough to kill the virus on surfaces which I have for my job. Yes people will work sick not knowing...I tried to stock up so I only see my clients who stay home or locally. Numbers will rise dramatically once testing is reliable and widely available. My daughter sent me a video from Australia of two women fist fighting over toilet paper in Sidney. Gosh I hope that doesn't become an issue. I will do my best to be helpful to others at this time locally.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I think they all should have self-quarantined when they got to US, but what do I know.


The ones who came to NC have done that.
One of the group tested positive and was confirmed last Friday in Chatham County.
He had been to Italy with a group of ECU students. I think I heard there were about 40 of them.

https://www.newsday.com/news/nation...-coronavirus-case-in-washington-dc-1.42597182


> Virginia recorded its first case Saturday when a U.S. Marine stationed at Fort Belvoir was found to have the virus.


----------



## gilberte

We're stopping mail delivery and holing up in the bunker till this thing passes. Don't know what we'll do in the future if anything really serious happens.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

You may remember that I backed out on the job at a food tent at SXSW, before the whole event was cancelled.

I worked at the Farmers Market today, selling citrus from our trees in south Texas.

A nice gentleman bought two lemons and handed me a dollar. He then talked about his recent return from Italy. Sigh.

I had hand sanitizer and had also set up a hand washing station at the market. I think this may be my last Market for a while.


----------



## MoonRiver

Couldn't sleep past 1 am and mind was racing. I thought, what would be the best way to try to keep from contaminating your house? First I thought about shoes. It might be a good idea to remove shoes as soon as entering your house and spraying with lysol. Maybe overkill, maybe not.

Then I thought about clothes. Again, probably overkill, but if you are high risk, worth considering. Remove clothes and wash using a disinfectant. (https://www.thespruce.com/disinfect-laundry-for-bacterial-viral-infections-2146333). Dry using hottest setting or dry in sun. Disinfect laundry basket and may want to run some bleach through washer,

Here's an article about disinfecting if you are caring for a family member with the virus. http://virox.com/files_docs/content/pdf/msds/EnvelopeVirusProtocolCanada.pdf


----------



## SLADE

Alice In TX/MO said:


> You may remember that I backed out on the job at a food tent at SXSW, before the whole event was cancelled.
> 
> I worked at the Farmers Market today, selling citrus from our trees in south Texas.
> 
> A nice gentleman bought two lemons and handed me a dollar. He then talked about his recent return from Italy. Sigh.
> 
> I had hand sanitizer and had also set up a hand washing station at the market. I think this may be my last Market for a while.


We sell cut flowers but if this continues I'll give them away roadside.


----------



## ladytoysdream

Not sure what thread to post this in, but now
NYS in a state of emergency. One of the stories posted.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/coronavirus-new-york-update-cuomo-state-emergency

We have on our local news, one person in hospital that they are testing. No results yet
A family in the county has come back home from being abroad and put themselves in self isolation for 2 weeks.
No update on that.

Yesterday shopping looked normal. Shelves were stocked okay.
I did buy some extra TP as a precaution.

Shopped in Walmart early yesterday. Saturday is unusual for me to shop in stores.
I try to go during the week. I did notice 2 Walmart workers doing the shopping for other people. Like 8 plastic boxes per cart. I saw fresh milk in one which told me, it was for people to pick up within the hour. Which could be completely normal for
this store. More people taking advantage of this service. Or it could be people not wanting to shop because of the virus. No way of knowing. I just like paying attention to what is going on around me. Sure gave me food for thought.

Trying to stay ahead of the problem, is what I keep telling the hubby.
We could stay home if we had to. Have a couple family members who are mandatory at their
place of work. They can't stay home.


----------



## gleepish

Alice In TX/MO said:


> You may remember that I backed out on the job at a food tent at SXSW, before the whole event was cancelled.
> 
> I worked at the Farmers Market today, selling citrus from our trees in south Texas.
> 
> A nice gentleman bought two lemons and handed me a dollar. He then talked about his recent return from Italy. Sigh.
> 
> I had hand sanitizer and had also set up a hand washing station at the market. I think this may be my last Market for a while.


Yikes! Stay safe and make the choices that you feel are best for you!


----------



## robin416

mreynolds said:


> This is what I have issue with too. Is a sniffle just a cold? Sinus allergy? Flu? Or something else? I never panic because whatever happens will happen. _*Often*_ without my consent. But it is something I do think about.
> 
> Like today, working at the hospital. I was on high alert even though the workers there say "There is nothing to worry about."


I'm going through it right now. Do I think it's Covid? No. But I can't tell if it's my allergies being particularly bad or a cold.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Barnbilder, you may be right. Or not. Who knows? 

I will make decisions based on information at the time.


----------



## barnbilder

If it proves to be more than the common cold/flu (once we get reliable statistics) and it becomes an epidemic of zombie plague proportions, it is not likely to stop very soon. You could hole up in an area that doesn't have concentrated cases now and be forced to come out of hiding to resupply at a time that infection rates are high and supplies are limited.


----------



## GTX63

SRSLADE said:


> We sell cut flowers but if this continues I'll give them away roadside.


You could set up in the foyer at the funeral home. Speculation sells baby.


----------



## Elevenpoint

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Barnbilder, you may be right. Or not. Who knows?
> 
> I will make decisions based on information at the time.


14,000 died from the flu, A or B so far this flu season. 
Take cover in your basement now.


----------



## no really

This is an interesting chart:

The death rate from the new coronavirus is higher in the US so far than anywhere else in the world. The rate, a basic calculation that divides the number of known deaths by the total number of confirmed cases, was about 6% in the US as of Friday morning. Fourteen Americans have died out of less than 250 confirmed cases.

South Korea, which has the second highest number of cases outside of China, has a death rate that’s one-tenth of that. Out of 6,593 cases, 42 people have died: o.6%.

While this variation between countries may sound concerning, the rate strongly depends on how many people get tested for the virus. In countries like South Korea and China, which have tested hundreds of thousands of people, the death rate is lower than, say, the US, which has tested less than 2,000. 










https://capitalbay.com/?p=16282


----------



## gleepish

gleepish said:


> Missouri (St. Louis County) just diagnosed the first case.  They are saying it's a young woman and was travel related (was studying in Italy). She is quarantined at home with her parents.


Evidently she lives with her parents and younger sister.... Dad decided to break quarantine and go to a Father Daughter dance with the younger sibling... Now he's saying he din't know... He was told by authorities to voluntarily quarantine or basically a guard would be placed at his home to ensure he stayed there. 

This is what happens when people thing 'it's just a cold or just a the flu'. I'll let you know in a couple of weeks how many cases are in St Louis county... 

https://www.kmov.com/news/villa-duc...cle_41ec34a4-6179-11ea-b3e3-6fbf809e7778.html


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Tacky, Elevenpoint.


----------



## SLADE

GTX63 said:


> You could set up in the foyer at the funeral home. Speculation sells baby.


When I give them away the neighbors feel all warm and fuzzy toward me.
How do your neighbors feel about you?


----------



## GTX63

Let me ask, I have a couple here now...


----------



## GTX63

They aren't comfortable with flowers, but they said the bourbon I'm pouring gives them a sort of warm and fuzzy.
I'm selling it as the Corona antidote.


----------



## SLADE

GTX63 said:


> They aren't comfortable with flowers, but they said the bourbon I'm pouring gives them a sort of warm and fuzzy.
> I'm selling it as the Corona antidote.


There's all kinds of flowers.
I've tried many bourbons and it didn't work well for me.
I wasn't feeling warm and fuzzy.


----------



## barnbilder

I'm not a statistical scientist but I know a thing or two about statistical science. It takes a very large sample size for any degree of accuracy. Per 1000 might give a glimpse. But then you need to look at sampling criteria. Are they making random grabs of the populace and testing them? Or are they just testing chronically ill people? That would be important to know when calculating a mortality rate. Why would people that just have a headache or stuffy sinuses get tested when it could be easily assumed that they have one of the other corona viruses that have plagued mankind for ages, allergies, or environmentally induced symptoms? If they are just running tests on people that are chronically sick from this thing, and maybe some people that are showing symptoms who have been in contact with known positives, it's going to show an artificially high death rate.

And what ever the death rate is, it's only going to drop, as understanding of it grows, and as herd immunity slowly builds. If it acts like most other viruses, when people start spending more time in the sun, getting plenty of vitamin D, exercise, wearing less pathogen trapping clothing, and go to less cramped indoor gatherings with limited outside air exchange, new cases are probably going to drop rapidly.


----------



## GTX63

SRSLADE said:


> There's all kinds of flowers.
> I've tried many bourbons and it didn't work well for me.
> I wasn't feeling warm and fuzzy.


I have better stuff but it's Sunday night and they came by uninvited.


----------



## Hiro

GTX63 said:


> I have better stuff but it's Sunday night and they came by uninvited.


That is why gates were invented. If the front gate is open, come on in that one. If the second gate is closed....you better know the code and hope the front gate isn't closed on your way out.


----------



## GTX63

They have a gate at the back corner of their property. We have thousands of acres of timber behind us and he and his wife like to ride horses and atv. I cut a trail from his gate up to a clearing and behind our house for when we go hunting/hiking/place reason to waste time here.
They are on the approved list for cold calling.


----------



## Chris in Mich

barnbilder said:


> as herd immunity slowly builds.


While you make some good points it should be qualified that herd immunity primarily applies to a vaccinated public and then only when the percentage reaches a critical mass (which is 90-95% with measles); so, a 'little" herd immunity is as effective as no herd immunity.


----------



## barnbilder

Chris in Mich said:


> While you make some good points it should be qualified that herd immunity primarily applies to a vaccinated public and then only when the percentage reaches a critical mass (which is 90-95% with measles); so, a 'little" herd immunity is as effective as no herd immunity.


In the case of herd immunity for the hundreds of rhinoviruses and coronaviruses that make up the common cold, there are no vaccines involved, only antibodies produced in human hosts. Which means you only get this years mutation one time. Nobody will have to worry about covid-19 by next year. By then it will have mutated into something completely different like covid-20.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Alice In TX/MO said:


> A nice gentleman bought two lemons and handed me a dollar. He then talked about his recent return from Italy. Sigh.


You can kill the virus by heating it to 135° for 15 minutes.
Have your customers drop the cash in a crockpot.


----------



## Chris in Mich

barnbilder said:


> And what ever the death rate is, it's only going to drop, as understanding of it grows, and as herd immunity slowly builds


This statement suggests an inverse proportional relationship between death rate and herd immunity; what i'm trying qualify is that no relationship exists until the herd is sufficiently large.

Herd immunity in rhinovirus takes about a year to develop, and then, a new strain comes along. Without a vaccine, herd immunity in corona virus may require millions of infections to be relevant.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=495667791105061


----------



## Elevenpoint

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Tacky, Elevenpoint.


Your right, I was wrong.
20,000 have died from the flu this season.
There is nothing tacky about truth.


----------



## Lisa in WA

Worrisome, if true.











I want to share with everyone my story of potentially having COVID-19 and how our health care system is completely broken in dealing with this. If you think people are getting tested and being isolated from the rest of the public, think again. Think there are no cases in your community? Think again. If my story is any indication, this thing is way out of control already -- we just aren’t testing people so we don’t know about it. 

I will start with my travel history. On Sunday, February 23, I began a trip to Thailand for a meeting for work. I didn’t read the news that morning because I was busy getting packed and out of the door. My first flight left from Dulles and landed in Seoul 14 hours later (it’s now Monday, 2/24). There was no wi-fi on the flight and so it wasn’t until I landed that I knew that South Korea was experiencing an outbreak. I bought a mask in the airport, got some food and coffee, and then boarded my plane to Bangkok. I spent five days in a meeting in Bangkok washing hands religiously. On Saturday 2/29 I began my trip back. My trip had been rerouted back through London so that I would avoid South Korea. I spent the night in London near the airport and returned to Dulles on Sunday March 1st. 

You may remember that on Saturday there was a big announcement from Trump saying that they would be taking increased measures to ensure people coming from South Korea would be evaluated and tested when necessary. So, I was a little worried I would have trouble getting back into the country. Every other country I had flown through they made announcements on the plane as we were landing. In Thailand there were public health officials randomly testing people coming off of my flight and in all other countries there were clear signs of what to do if you don’t feel well directing you to people to talk to. In London, public health people even boarded the plane before we could disembark. When I got to Dulles, there was nothing. I didn’t see a single sign, there were no announcements, and while I was looking, I didn’t see anyone checking anyone’s health or a place where people could ask someone a question. 

I was looking because toward the end of that last flight, the lymph nodes in my neck started to swell and that is usually a sign I’m about to be sick. I called my ex-husband to ask him to keep the kids for an extra day to be on the safe side and made a quick stop by the grocery store to get some food for the week. 

On Monday I was achy, had a headache, had chills and generally felt horrible. But, no fever or chest congestion and so I wasn’t too worried just thinking I had picked up a cold travelling. On Tuesday when I woke up, I got more concerned because there was now congestion in my chest, and I was coughing and having shortness of breath. I called my asthma doctor who told me to go to the ER because they didn’t have the capacity to deal with it and they thought I should be tested. I understood they were asking people to not just show up anywhere but to call first to let them know you are coming. I called GW hospital and they said not to come because they don’t have the tests. They told me that I should call the DC Department of Health. 

I called the Department of Health. The man on the phone took a detailed history of my symptoms and my travel history and said that the shortness of breath could be from my asthma, I don’t have a fever, and because I’m low risk I don’t qualify to be tested. I was surprised to be called low-risk with my travel history. I know there are people at greater risk, and so I let it go. I asked if I should continue to self-quarantine and he said that limiting my interactions would be good and if I needed to go out wear a mask and wash hands a lot. I asked for how long and he said for 14 days since I was in South Korea. He also said to call back if my symptoms worsened or changed in any way. He said they would keep monitoring my case.

Over the course of the week, my symptoms would get better and then worse. I didn’t feel like I was on death’s door and felt much like I have felt when I’ve had the flu but with no head congestion. On Wednesday night I was up with stomach cramps and diarrhea, and I also found out that one of my work colleagues was not feeling well. She is in rural Indonesia where testing isn’t possible and so there is no way to know if she has it. So, on Thursday morning I called back to Department of Health and the woman I talked to was clearly not familiar with my case and seemed to have no way to find my earlier call. I went through everything again, and told her of the new symptoms and my colleague being sick. She said that I haven’t been in contact with anyone who has it (she doesn’t care that my colleague is sick because she hasn’t been tested), and that I’m low risk. She said that if I feel I need to be tested, the way to do that is to go to my doctor and my doctor can recommend I be tested. I asked her whether I should extend my self-quarantine since I am now displaying symptoms, and she said no. That I don’t need to self-quarantine, and that I should treat it just like if I had a cold or the flu. I can go out in public just try not to cough on anyone and wash my hands a lot. I was stunned. 

I called my doctor again who told me to go to urgent care or the emergency room, but they didn’t have capacity to deal with it. I really wanted to avoid the emergency room and didn’t think they would test me if I went so I didn’t go. I also thought going into a room full of sick people just wasn’t that great of an idea or either of us. On Friday, a friend contacted the director of the Department of Health who told me to go to an urgent care facility (even listing a few). So, instead of showing up I called a few, and they told me that they were not equipped to handle this and that I should go to the ER. I was then told by my friend that the director said they are doing testing at GW hospital’s emergency room and I should go there. That if a doctor thought I should be tested, they would test me there. 

So, on Friday at 2:15, I arrived at the ER at GW. I told them I had been in South Korea. There clearly was someone else there in the same situation. They had me take a seat and then called me over to the triage nurse. She took my history and symptoms and told me they needed to put me in isolation. I was already wearing a mask but she also put gloves on my hands. They didn’t have a room right away and so put me in an area of the waiting room that was away from others and told the security guard not to let anyone else sit there. I was beginning to feel like I was in the right place where people were taking it seriously. Soon they called me back to a room. I saw a doctor and they said they were going to do a viral screen to rule out everything. It’s an ER, it took a long time, but I was in isolation thinking someone was taking me seriously and I was feeling good about that. After a few hours the doctor poked her head in to say I had tested positive for Flu B and they would be discharging me soon and get rest and liquids. About a half hour later, she came back in to apologize that she had mixed up my room with the room next door (I believe there were 3 other people there also being assessed for Covid-19 at the time), and that my flu test was actually negative as were the other things they test for and so now they would do a test for Covid-19. Time passed and I didn’t hear anything. After several hours the doctor came back in and told me that she was very sorry but the department of health was refusing to run the test. They said I wasn’t in South Korea long enough. She was furious. She said she was still trying to get them to change their mind. She got the chief of staff involved. She kept trying. Nothing. The doctor told me she thought there was a high likelihood that I have it based on my travel history, symptoms, the colleague that is sick, and all other tests coming back negative. But, without the test she couldn’t tell me for sure, and her hands were tied. She asked me to please keep self-quarantining and to come back if my symptoms worsened so that they could at least treat the symptoms. At 11:45, I was discharged and went home. 

Do I have Covid-19? Who knows. Do we have a broken public healthcare system that is utterly failing during a health pandemic? Absolutely.


----------



## GTX63

Bearfootfarm said:


> You can kill the virus by heating it to 135° for 15 minutes.
> Have your customers drop the cash in a crockpot.


This guy has a similar plan.


----------



## SLADE

We have a politicized corona virus.


----------



## GTX63

Well be sure and keep it to yourself then.


----------



## SLADE

You do the same and we're fine


----------



## Evons hubby

robin416 said:


> Logic tells me that I want no part of it because it could kill me. I at least can be innoculated against the flu. I'm in that age group that shows it being most lethal.


You are aware that getting a flu shot doesn't necessarily keep you from getting the flu... Right?


----------



## MoonRiver

My prediction.

In USA, # cases over 1,000 by 3/13 (Friday the 13th)
In USA, # cases near 10,000 by 4/1


----------



## robin416

Yvonne's hubby said:


> You are aware that getting a flu shot doesn't necessarily keep you from getting the flu... Right?


I've said this before but it looks like I need to say it again, I'm not stupid.


----------



## MoonRiver

robin416 said:


> I've said this before but it looks like I need to say it again, I'm not stupid.


All we can do is protect ourselves the best we can. If we are right, great for us. If we are wrong, great for us.

We win either way. They only win if the virus is no worse than the cold. I prefer our hand.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> They only win if the virus is *no worse than the cold.*


That's as bad as it gets for about 80% of those infected.
More than 96% will survive.


----------



## SLADE

How many will die?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> How many will die?


All of us eventually.


----------



## SLADE

I ask because I love to read the patented response.


----------



## gleepish

SRSLADE said:


> How many will die?


Well, if 


Bearfootfarm said:


> More than 96% will survive.


more than 3% 

So... what between 2 and 4 out of every 100 by those numbers.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

gleepish said:


> So... what between 2 and 4 out of every 100 by those numbers.


I think it will really be less because so many cases will go unreported.


----------



## gleepish

Bearfootfarm said:


> I think it will really be less because so many cases will go unreported.


So, honest question here, would it be better to figure the amount of deaths by the amount of severe cases instead of all cases? So like... you'll probably just have a cold, but if it gets severe, your chances are X% of surviving?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

gleepish said:


> would it be better to figure the amount of deaths by the amount of severe cases instead of all cases?


There seems to be lots of variables, but I've noticed many of the places that have done the most testing have lower mortality rates than what has been estimated from the overall figures.
Some are less than 1%.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's as bad as it gets for about 80% of those infected.
> More than 96% will survive.


I'm more concerned about being critical than dying.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I'm more concerned about being critical than dying.


That's less than 95%.


----------



## gleepish

Bearfootfarm said:


> There seems to be lots of variables, but I've noticed many of the places that have done the most testing have lower mortality rates than what has been estimated from the overall figures.
> Some are less than 1%.


The lowest estimate I've seen is 1.4%

I'm kind of curious to see what the heck is going on in Italy 7375 cases and 366 deaths and South Korea with 7478 cases and only 53 deaths--What about the strain in Italy is so devastating?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

gleepish said:


> The lowest estimate I've seen is 1.4%


I just did the numbers on South Korea and it is 0.7087456539%


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Best advice:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/MtFB3Isxv1wP/


----------



## Hiro

gleepish said:


> The lowest estimate I've seen is 1.4%
> 
> I'm kind of curious to see what the heck is going on in Italy 7375 cases and 366 deaths and South Korea with 7478 cases and only 53 deaths--What about the strain in Italy is so devastating?


The Diamond Princess is the only control group we have that had every single person tested. Even though that group skewed towards the elderly the mortality rate was 0.8%.


----------



## keenataz

I keep come back to wondering if there is something we, in general, don't know. Italy has basically just shut down. Why?


----------



## MoonRiver

gleepish said:


> The lowest estimate I've seen is 1.4%
> 
> I'm kind of curious to see what the heck is going on in Italy 7375 cases and 366 deaths and South Korea with 7478 cases and only 53 deaths--What about the strain in Italy is so devastating?


It could be the strain, but it also could be that S Korea has done a much better job of testing than Italy.

Wasn't there a report a week or so ago where Italy said they weren't going to track asymptomatic patients?


----------



## HDRider

keenataz said:


> I keep come back to wondering if there is something we, in general, don't know. Italy has basically just shut down. Why?


In Italy, Chinese FDI has soared since 2014, approaching 5 billion euros ($5.7 billion), which corresponds to around 10 percent of total Chinese investment in the European stock market. In 2015, China’s acquisition of Pirelli made Italy the top destination of Chinese FDI in Europe

https://thediplomat.com/2019/03/mapping-chinas-investments-in-europe/


----------



## MoonRiver

keenataz said:


> I keep come back to wondering if there is something we, in general, don't know. Italy has basically just shut down. Why?


Because it can be transmitted when a person is asymptomatic or having slight symptoms, the only way to stop it is quarantine.

It was easier for China because they had a single point of initiation. They could quarantine the city and area around it and pretty much stop the spread. Italy can do this to a degree because they are quarantining the north from the south.

In the US and Canada, we have people carrying the virus flying into airports all over the country. Now students are being called back home from studying abroad. Many of these are probably carrying the virus and may not have symptoms. They get off the plane and friend or family picks them up. They go out to get something to eat. Bam! 10 people may have been exposed to the virus.


----------



## HDRider

MoonRiver said:


> Because it can be transmitted when a person is asymptomatic or having slight symptoms, the only way to stop it is quarantine.
> 
> It was easier for China because they had a single point of initiation. They could quarantine the city and area around it and pretty much stop the spread. Italy can do this to a degree because they are quarantining the north from the south.
> 
> In the US and Canada, we have people carrying the virus flying into airports all over the country. Now students are being called back home from studying abroad. Many of these are probably carrying the virus and may not have symptoms. They get off the plane and friend or family picks them up. They go out to get something to eat. Bam! 10 people may have been exposed to the virus.


Or, China has a tighter control of information flow, and present whatever appearance of fact they want.


----------



## light rain

gleepish said:


> The lowest estimate I've seen is 1.4%
> 
> I'm kind of curious to see what the heck is going on in Italy 7375 cases and 366 deaths and South Korea with 7478 cases and only 53 deaths--What about the strain in Italy is so devastating?


I have read that Chinese scientists think the Italy strain is a new mutation.
I wish we had, at our disposal, the ages of all the victims.
As of this morning Germany had a lot of cases but no fatalities. Why?


----------



## gleepish

So, the family in St. Louis is saying that they were not told to self quarantine.... Heath department says they were--they got stuck on that for a bit and then the guy from the Health Department said something interesting. Someone asked if they had tested the father and younger sister that went to the school dance and he said that they had not _because the test doesn't work if you are not symptomatic_. He even repeated it and prefaced it with a 'what you need to understand is...' Which made me wonder, if they can't test you when you are not symptomatic, how do they know you are shedding the virus before you have symptoms?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Hiro said:


> The Diamond Princess is the only control group we have that had every single person tested. Even though that group skewed towards the elderly the mortality rate was 0.8%.


I think that is much closer to reality that the 3.5% figure from WHO.


----------



## Lisa in WA

gleepish said:


> So, the family in St. Louis is saying that they were not told to self quarantine.... Heath department says they were--they got stuck on that for a bit and then the guy from the Health Department said something interesting. Someone asked if they had tested the father and younger sister that went to the school dance and he said that they had not _because the test doesn't work if you are not symptomatic_. He even repeated it and prefaced it with a 'what you need to understand is...' Which made me wonder, if they can't test you when you are not symptomatic, how do they know you are shedding the virus before you have symptoms?


don’t know about your last question but how stupid do you (the father, not you Gleepish) have to be...having a kid with the virus that’s been all over the news and everywhere for the past few weeks causing stock markets to crash, etc. ...not having guessed without having been told that they needed to self quarantine. I don’t think he’s that stupid...I’m betting he’s lying.


----------



## robin416

gleepish said:


> So, the family in St. Louis is saying that they were not told to self quarantine.... Heath department says they were--they got stuck on that for a bit and then the guy from the Health Department said something interesting. Someone asked if they had tested the father and younger sister that went to the school dance and he said that they had not _because the test doesn't work if you are not symptomatic_. He even repeated it and prefaced it with a 'what you need to understand is...' Which made me wonder, if they can't test you when you are not symptomatic, how do they know you are shedding the virus before you have symptoms?


I heard or read that same thing somewhere that the test doesn't work unless symptoms are present. I wonder if it's the difference in tests from Asia and the ones they're using here.


----------



## gleepish

Lisa in WA said:


> don’t know about your last question but how stupid do you (the father, not you Gleepish) have to be...having a kid with the virus that’s been all over the news and everywhere for the past few weeks causing stock markets to crash, etc. ...not having guessed without having been told that they needed to self quarantine. I don’t think he’s that stupid...I’m betting he’s lying.


I would have to agree with you that the family isn't telling the truth, but they say they have the phone calls to prove it... I'll let you know what comes of it over the next few days, if anything.


----------



## Lisa in WA

gleepish said:


> I would have to agree with you that the family isn't telling the truth, but they say they have the phone calls to prove it... I'll let you know what comes of it over the next few days, if anything.


Even so. 
I’d say if they aren’t lying they must be stupid. 
Even if I wasn’t as aware of what was going on all around the country, I’d sure as heck be trying to figure out what it was that my kid had and what it meant.


----------



## gleepish

Well, the latest is that the two schools involved with the dance have closed for the rest of this week. The lawyer for the family who broke quarantine says they weren't told to quarantine, and went on to say that the family was even told that she wasn't sick enough to have the test run originally. By the time they decided to test her, they didn't get the results until the father and sister were at the school dance and they left immediately after hearing the diagnosis. The lawyer is insisting they have the phone calls to prove they were not told to self quarantine.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Best advice:
> 
> https://www.bitchute.com/video/MtFB3Isxv1wP/


She nailed it.


----------



## Miss Kay

Lisa in WA, I'm not at all surprised at your story about the health care you received. I don't understand why so many other countries have the tests they need and yet we don't. I have to think it is because the government doesn't want to know how many people have it. They don't want folks to think its a big deal but most of us aren't that stupid (well, some do believe it's no worse than a cold). By hiding the truth, they make people panic. I personally have to assume it is every where at this point and just hope I don't need a ventilator if i get it. Who knows how hard it would be to get that sort of help. We have missed the opportunity to stop or shorten the spread of this thing by pretending it isn't here or if it is here, it's no big deal. One things for sure, when it hits your town, family, yourself it may feel like a big deal.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Miss Kay said:


> Lisa in WA, I'm not at all surprised at your story about the health care you received. I don't understand why so many other countries have the tests they need and yet we don't.


We have the ones we "need".
We are getting more every day.

They have thousands of sick people and we are still in the hundreds.
Keep in mind too that some of those countries are smaller than some of our states, and may even have fewer people than some of our larger cities combined.

There are 5 more confirmed cases here due to travelers from Boston.
https://www.wnct.com/community/health/coronavirus/5-more-people-in-nc-test-positive-for-covid-19/

RALEIGH, N.C. (WNCT) Five more people in Wake County have tested presumptively positive today for COVID-19 (novel coronavirus).

All traveled to Boston in late February to attend a BioGen conference.

Several cases of COVID-19 across the country have been tied to the conference.

These cases are not related to the Wake County individual who tested positive last week.

All are in isolation at their respective homes.

The tests, conducted by the North Carolina State Laboratory of Public Health, are presumptively positive and will be confirmed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) lab.


----------



## Lisa in WA

Miss Kay said:


> Lisa in WA, I'm not at all surprised at your story about the health care you received. I don't understand why so many other countries have the tests they need and yet we don't. I have to think it is because the government doesn't want to know how many people have it. They don't want folks to think its a big deal but most of us aren't that stupid (well, some do believe it's no worse than a cold). By hiding the truth, they make people panic. I personally have to assume it is every where at this point and just hope I don't need a ventilator if i get it. Who knows how hard it would be to get that sort of help. We have missed the opportunity to stop or shorten the spread of this thing by pretending it isn't here or if it is here, it's no big deal. One things for sure, when it hits your town, family, yourself it may feel like a big deal.


this wasn’t me it happened to, Miss Kay. It was a post in Facebook. Sorry..I should’ve made that more clear.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

How big is a Coronavirus?



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2554878451434607



http s://www.facebook.com/ScienceNaturePage/videos/2554878451434607/


----------



## MoonRiver

This information is from the below dr John Campbell video where he quotes information from an article in Practical Preventive Medicine (6 March). I was unable to locate the article.

Bus passenger infected fellow travelers *sitting* 4.5 meters (*15 ft*) away.
COVID-19 can linger in the *air for at least 30 minutes*.
*Lasts on surfaces for day*s (37c (*98F*)), it can *survive for 2 to 3 days* on glass, fabric, metal, plastic or paper.
Survives more than *5 days in human feces or bodily fluids*.


----------



## no really

We got tests here for the virus last week, we're in the middle of nowhere. Town of about 300 to 400, county of maybe 8000 people. We also received detailed instructions on how to and when to get the test done.


----------



## MoonRiver

I can't believe no one commented on this in my previous post. It worries the heck out of me. 

Someone on a bus who was 15" away from a passenger with the virus caught it from him. So much for social distancing.

They have learned that the virus can remain in the air up to 30 minutes. That means if someone with the virus sneezes in Walmart, you could catch the virus from them up to 30 minutes later.

Even at high temperature (98F), the virus can survive on surfaces for up to 2 or 3 days. That means it can be on your clothes, your shoes, your body, your car, inside your house, etc for 2 to 3 days.

If you are taking care of someone who has to be assisted to use the bathroom, you have to be extremely careful. I would think gloves, mask, goggles, and a shower after might be a good idea.

Bus passenger infected fellow travelers *sitting* 4.5 meters (*15 ft*) away.
COVID-19 can linger in the *air for at least 30 minutes*.
*Lasts on surfaces for day*s (37c (*98F*)), it can *survive for 2 to 3 days* on glass, fabric, metal, plastic or paper.
Survives more than *5 days in human feces or bodily fluids*.


----------



## SLADE

MoonRiver said:


> I can't believe no one commented on this in my previous post. It worries the heck out of me.
> 
> Someone on a bus who was 15" away from a passenger with the virus caught it from him. So much for social distancing.
> 
> They have learned that the virus can remain in the air up to 30 minutes. That means if someone with the virus sneezes in Walmart, you could catch the virus from them up to 30 minutes later.
> 
> Even at high temperature (98F), the virus can survive on surfaces for up to 2 or 3 days. That means it can be on your clothes, your shoes, your body, your car, inside your house, etc for 2 to 3 days.
> 
> If you are taking care of someone who has to be assisted to use the bathroom, you have to be extremely careful. I would think gloves, mask, goggles, and a shower after might be a good idea.
> 
> Bus passenger infected fellow travelers *sitting* 4.5 meters (*15 ft*) away.
> COVID-19 can linger in the *air for at least 30 minutes*.
> *Lasts on surfaces for day*s (37c (*98F*)), it can *survive for 2 to 3 days* on glass, fabric, metal, plastic or paper.
> Survives more than *5 days in human feces or bodily fluids*.


That's scary.


----------



## Hiro

MoonRiver said:


> I can't believe no one commented on this in my previous post. It worries the heck out of me.
> 
> Someone on a bus who was 15" away from a passenger with the virus caught it from him. So much for social distancing.
> 
> They have learned that the virus can remain in the air up to 30 minutes. That means if someone with the virus sneezes in Walmart, you could catch the virus from them up to 30 minutes later.
> 
> Even at high temperature (98F), the virus can survive on surfaces for up to 2 or 3 days. That means it can be on your clothes, your shoes, your body, your car, inside your house, etc for 2 to 3 days.
> 
> If you are taking care of someone who has to be assisted to use the bathroom, you have to be extremely careful. I would think gloves, mask, goggles, and a shower after might be a good idea.
> 
> Bus passenger infected fellow travelers *sitting* 4.5 meters (*15 ft*) away.
> COVID-19 can linger in the *air for at least 30 minutes*.
> *Lasts on surfaces for day*s (37c (*98F*)), it can *survive for 2 to 3 days* on glass, fabric, metal, plastic or paper.
> Survives more than *5 days in human feces or bodily fluids*.


Yet, there were passengers sharing a cruise cabin where one got the virus and their cabin mate did not. They shared a bathroom, linens, etc. It is less likely a bus passenger was allegedly infected from 15 ft away than said passenger may have caught it elsewhere.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

No way to be 100% sure on a bus, in a public rest room, etc.


----------



## MoonRiver

Hiro said:


> Yet, there were passengers sharing a cruise cabin where one got the virus and their cabin mate did not. They shared a bathroom, linens, etc. It is less likely a bus passenger was allegedly infected from 15 ft away than said passenger may have caught it elsewhere.


This was a case tracked in China and used the bus camera to verify how close the infected passenger was to the carrier.


----------



## keenataz

MoonRiver said:


> I can't believe no one commented on this in my previous post. It worries the heck out of me.
> 
> Someone on a bus who was 15" away from a passenger with the virus caught it from him. So much for social distancing.
> 
> They have learned that the virus can remain in the air up to 30 minutes. That means if someone with the virus sneezes in Walmart, you could catch the virus from them up to 30 minutes later.
> 
> Even at high temperature (98F), the virus can survive on surfaces for up to 2 or 3 days. That means it can be on your clothes, your shoes, your body, your car, inside your house, etc for 2 to 3 days.
> 
> If you are taking care of someone who has to be assisted to use the bathroom, you have to be extremely careful. I would think gloves, mask, goggles, and a shower after might be a good idea.
> 
> Bus passenger infected fellow travelers *sitting* 4.5 meters (*15 ft*) away.
> COVID-19 can linger in the *air for at least 30 minutes*.
> *Lasts on surfaces for day*s (37c (*98F*)), it can *survive for 2 to 3 days* on glass, fabric, metal, plastic or paper.
> Survives more than *5 days in human feces or bodily fluids*.



The only one I question is the bus passenger. Perhaps someone touched a surface the sick guy previously touched. But I suppose it is possible.

As far as helping someone in bathroom situation. I would do everything you say, plus sanitize every 30 seconds during the process.


----------



## MoonRiver

keenataz said:


> The only one I question is the bus passenger. Perhaps someone touched a surface the sick guy previously touched. But I suppose it is possible.
> 
> As far as helping someone in bathroom situation. I would do everything you say, plus sanitize every 30 seconds during the process.


I believe the article was pre-publish or something like that. In other words, it hadn't been reviewed yet. It was done by a Chinese scholar who reviewed the data.


----------



## Hiro

MoonRiver said:


> This was a case tracked in China and used the bus camera to verify how close the infected passenger was to the carrier.


That is meaningless unless the infected passenger was sealed inside a hermetic chamber both before and after the bus ride, so there was no chance they got it before or after the bus ride. Don't buy into the sensationalism.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I can't believe no one commented on this in my previous post.


That guy lacks credibility.
He says lots of things without presenting all the evidence.
He's not an MD. He's a college professor.



MoonRiver said:


> I believe the article was pre-publish or something like that. In other words, it hadn't been reviewed yet. It was done by a Chinese scholar who reviewed the data.


Meaning we don't know who wrote it and none of it has been confirmed.


----------



## MoonRiver

Hiro said:


> That is meaningless unless the infected passenger was sealed inside a hermetic chamber both before and after the bus ride, so there was no chance they got it before or after the bus ride. Don't buy into the sensationalism.


Fine with me. Don't believe it.

If I chose to believe it and it's not true, I haven't hurt myself.
If I choose to reject it and it's true, I hurt myself.

Obvious answer, act like it's true.


----------



## po boy

I think there is more disinformation than factual and ignore most all of it.


----------



## shawnlee

po boy said:


> I think there is more disinformation than factual and ignore most all of it.


 Don`t forget the fear,.....there is a double helping of that to go around.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> This was a case tracked in China and used the bus camera to verify how close the infected passenger was to the carrier.


So they say.
Did it show the part where they entered and exited the bus at the same point?
Did it show whether or not each was infected before the ever got near the bus?

I get that you *want* to believe Dr Youtube .
That doesn't make it real.


----------



## SLADE

Anyone that's not concerned should take a deep breath and ignore those that are.


----------



## po boy

SRSLADE said:


> Anyone that's not concerned should take a deep breath and ignore those that are.


sneaky !


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> Anyone that's not concerned should take a deep breath and ignore those that are.


Those who are truly "concerned" should devote their energy to something useful and helpful rather than wasting it on doom and gloom hysteria.


----------



## gleepish

MoonRiver said:


> It could be the strain, but it also could be that S Korea has done a much better job of testing than Italy.
> 
> Wasn't there a report a week or so ago where Italy said they weren't going to track asymptomatic patients?


_(Sorry, I think I missed answering this somehow along the way....)_

Yes there was, but since our test doesn't work on asymptomatic patients wouldn't that their numbers give us an idea of what we could be looking at since their 'confirmed' are all symptomatic and so are ours?


----------



## po boy




----------



## MoonRiver

gleepish said:


> _(Sorry, I think I missed answering this somehow along the way....)_
> 
> Yes there was, but since our test doesn't work on asymptomatic patients wouldn't that their numbers give us an idea of what we could be looking at since their 'confirmed' are all symptomatic and so are ours?


If test doesn't work with asymptomatic patients, how do they determine they have COVID-19?


----------



## Evons hubby

The best way to avoid this virus is to presume every one is infected..., behave accordingly.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> That guy lacks credibility.
> He says lots of things without presenting all the evidence.
> He's not an MD. He's a college professor.


He is a Ph D in a medical related field and his background is in teaching nurses. I would say that makes him qualified. 


> Meaning we don't know who wrote it and none of it has been confirmed.


You seem to like to criticize without viewing the video. Dr John explained that the study hadn't been reviewed for publication yet, but he thought the information was worth sharing. I provided the name of the publication, but was unable to find the article. Dr John found it so it is out there to be found if one really wanted to find it and read it before criticizing it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> *He is a Ph D* in a medical related field and his background is in teaching nurses. I would say that makes him qualified.


That's what I said. He's *not* an MD



MoonRiver said:


> Dr John explained that *the study hadn't been reviewed* for publication yet, but he thought the information was worth sharing.


Therefore we have no evidence it's valid regardless of what Dr Youtube thinks.



MoonRiver said:


> You seem to like to criticize *without viewing* the video.


You're ready to believe it *without viewing* it.
Is one really better than the other?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Wait. You believe everything an MD says? Just because?

No other authority can have important/valuable information?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Wasn't there a report a week or so ago where Italy said they weren't going to track *asymptomatic* patients?


How do you track "patients" who show no signs of being infected?
They aren't testing 100% of the population.


----------



## MoonRiver

The city I live in has a population of about 40,000. The rate of infection for COVID-19 has been estimated at up to 70%. so I will use a low value of 40%. That means that approximately 16,000 people will get the virus. Using 2% as the case death rate results in 320 deaths.

That's 320 deaths in a fairly small city. About 800 who need to be hospitalized.

But it's not serious and we don't need to worry about it. It's like getting a cold.


----------



## gleepish

MoonRiver said:


> If test doesn't work with asymptomatic patients, how do they determine they have COVID-19?


They wait until they have a fever and a dry cough I'm guessing. I really don't know, that was just what the health dept. said during the conference last night about the dad and daughter who skipped out on their quarantine.


----------



## gleepish

MoonRiver said:


> If test doesn't work with asymptomatic patients, how do they determine they have COVID-19?


https://kmox.radio.com/media/audio-channel/sam-page-news-conference-march-9-2020

At around 3:33-3:35 is where he says it doesn't work on asymptomatic patients... 
_(I had to go look to make sure I really did hear what I thought I heard!)_


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Wait. You believe everything an MD says? Just because?
> 
> No other authority can have important/valuable information?


I don't believe anything "just because".

Anyone can relay valuable information.
It's always best to *verify* as much as possible though.

A video of some people on a bus isn't real "proof" of how the infection occurred.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

I agree with that last part.


----------



## Lisa in WA

Here’s a stupid piece of misinformation making the rounds:


“This info is from my friend that works for CDC that passed this along to his family and friends. I'm passing it along as well.. 

The new NCP coronavirus may not show sign of infection for many days, how can one know if he/she is infected. By the time they have fever and/or cough and goes to the hospital, the lungs is usually 50 % Fibrosis and it's too late!

Taiwan experts provide a simple self-check that we can do every morning:

Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds. If you complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stuffiness or tightness, etc.,it proves there is no fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicating no infection.

In critical times, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air.

SERIOUS EXCELLENT ADVICE by Japanese Doctors treating COVID-19 cases:

Everyone should ensure your mouth & throat is moist, never DRY. Take a few sips of water every 15 mins at least. WHY? 

Even if the virus gets into your mouth...drinking water or other liquids will WASH them down through your esophagus into the stomach. Once there in tummy...your stomach ACID will kill all the virus. If you don't drink enough water more regularly....the virus can enter your windpipes and into the LUNGS. That's very dangerous.

Pls send and share with family, friends and everyone.”


Titus & Renee' Pea 

813-363-1590”


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Sigh.


----------



## Lisa in WA

If that worked, why wouldn’t swallowing our saliva work?
and when I posted back an article debunking it, a woman piped up that she’d “heard this yesterday on NPR, only you had to use warm water”.
Uh-huh.

https://factcheck.afp.com/health-ex...inutes-does-not-prevent-coronavirus-infection


----------



## Evons hubby

Lisa in WA said:


> Here’s a stupid piece of misinformation making the rounds:
> 
> 
> “This info is from my friend that works for CDC that passed this along to his family and friends. I'm passing it along as well..
> 
> The new NCP coronavirus may not show sign of infection for many days, how can one know if he/she is infected. By the time they have fever and/or cough and goes to the hospital, the lungs is usually 50 % Fibrosis and it's too late!
> 
> Taiwan experts provide a simple self-check that we can do every morning:
> 
> Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds. If you complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stuffiness or tightness, etc.,it proves there is no fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicating no infection.
> 
> In critical times, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air.
> 
> SERIOUS EXCELLENT ADVICE by Japanese Doctors treating COVID-19 cases:
> 
> Everyone should ensure your mouth & throat is moist, never DRY. Take a few sips of water every 15 mins at least. WHY?
> 
> Even if the virus gets into your mouth...drinking water or other liquidsa will WASH them down through your esophagus into the stomach. Once there in tummy...your stomach ACID will kill all the virus. If you don't drink enough water more regularly....the virus can enter your windpipes and into the LUNGS. That's very dangerous.
> 
> Pls send and share with family, friends and everyone.”
> 
> 
> Titus & Renee' Pea
> 
> 813-363-1590”


I keep my throat moistened, but I use a natural antiseptic to do so. Might as well fight them little buggers at every step. Haven't had a cold or flu in years. Kentucky bourbon is a good thing!


----------



## Bearfootfarm

I eat Atomic Fireballs.
I should be safe.


----------



## wr

Albertans seem to feel that stockpiling massive amounts of toilet paper is going to cure it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

wr said:


> Albertans seem to feel that stockpiling massive amounts of toilet paper is going to cure it.


If you stuff enough up your nose it will help prevent the spread.

No one will want to get close to you.


----------



## romysbaskets

Today my son was on lock down in the nursing home he manages the construction/maintenance and staff including the emergency measures. This was mandatory lock down and he had no choice as they were testing a resident for the Coronavirus. In this place of work it is a mandatory quarantine if you are positive. Thank God the resident tested negative and continued to so was deemed safe. They had been transferred to the hospital for a procedure so this was their protocol. They lifted the lock down and the people working there were allowed to return home. 17 miles from the other nursing home, they have no cases as yet. They expect they might in the near future but are doing all they can.

2 Seniors are now positive for the coronavirus on the island we live on. They are both seniors and my prayers are with them.


----------



## light rain

wr said:


> Albertans seem to feel that stockpiling massive amounts of toilet paper is going to cure it.


No, but if it does really go widespread with diarrhea, how many rolls would you lend your neighbor if they came begging?


----------



## light rain

romysbaskets said:


> Today my son was on lock down in the nursing home he manages the construction/maintenance and staff including the emergency measures. This was mandatory lock down and he had no choice as they were testing a resident for the Coronavirus. In this place of work it is a mandatory quarantine if you are positive. Thank God the resident tested negative and continued to so was deemed safe. They had been transferred to the hospital for a procedure so this was their protocol. They lifted the lock down and the people working there were allowed to return home. 17 miles from the other nursing home, they have no cases as yet. They expect they might in the near future but are doing all they can.
> 
> 2 Seniors are now positive for the coronavirus on the island we live on. They are both seniors and my prayers are with them.


My prayers too...


----------



## anniew

regarding how much toilet paper....enough for them to get off my property without leaving a "trail."


----------



## MoonRiver

MoonRiver said:


> My prediction.
> 
> In USA, # cases over 1,000 by 3/13 (Friday the 13th)
> In USA, # cases near 10,000 by 4/1


1000 cases confirmed on 3/10.


----------



## barnbilder

The toilet paper is easy to explain. If they hear someone cough, they are going to poop.


----------



## wr

light rain said:


> No, but if it does really go widespread with diarrhea, how many rolls would you lend your neighbor if they came begging?


If that were the case, there are a lot of Albertans in trouble because there is none to be had in most towns and cities. Thanks to Facebook, there are groups offering helpful advice on where to stockpile and panic stockpiling is creating an unnatural shortage. Five stores in my town carry various brands and on Monday morning, all five had restocked. By noon, not a roll to be found and the going kijiji rate is $50/roll. 

Once the toilet paper is gone, people tend to buy the family packs of facial tissues and paper towels and lastly, baby wipes so they're also missing from our shelves.

It's ironic that these new 'preppers' walk past the pharmacy aisles (except for masks & gloves), the non perishable food aisles in favour of more toilet paper so if diarrhea becomes a problem, I don't think they'll live long enough to use dozens of packages of toilet paper anyhow.


----------



## robin416

For the past week I've been laid really low with a cold. You know the kind, where a whole box of tissues is used for all of the nose blowing. What I couldn't figure out, is where did I get it? So I backtracked.

Was it at the Cardiologist office? No, too far out for the incubation period. The hand surgeon? No, I was already mildly symptomatic with tiredness and blaming the runny nose on my allergies. 

The only possibility was the guy who was here installing my new dishwasher. He didn't sneeze or cough, we didn't shake hands. Yet a few days later I'm sick. That's how easy it is to spread the virus that causes a cold. I doubt it's much different with Covid.


----------



## MoonRiver

Could it just be from pollen? I have had congestion and a headache for the last week.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Exactly. And the Covid virus has obviously been “here” for MUCH longer than the media claims. 

The test kits are for a virus that is indigenous. 

Just my thoughts.


----------



## robin416

MoonRiver said:


> Could it just be from pollen? I have had congestion and a headache for the last week.


Not a chance it was allergies. The big hint was the sleeping. I slept, a lot. And my allergies are never as bad as the amount of nose blowing and coughing that I've done the past week.


----------



## gleepish

wr said:


> It's ironic that these new 'preppers' walk past the pharmacy aisles (except for masks & gloves), the non perishable food aisles in favour of more toilet paper so if diarrhea becomes a problem, I don't think they'll live long enough to use dozens of packages of toilet paper anyhow.


LOL that is very true, and sad at the same time. The good thing is that TP isn't very filling, so when they run out you can trade them a jar/can of corn for a family pack.


----------



## gleepish

robin416 said:


> For the past week I've been laid really low with a cold. You know the kind, where a whole box of tissues is used for all of the nose blowing. What I couldn't figure out, is where did I get it? So I backtracked.
> 
> Was it at the Cardiologist office? No, too far out for the incubation period. The hand surgeon? No, I was already mildly symptomatic with tiredness and blaming the runny nose on my allergies.
> 
> The only possibility was the guy who was here installing my new dishwasher. He didn't sneeze or cough, we didn't shake hands. Yet a few days later I'm sick. That's how easy it is to spread the virus that causes a cold. I doubt it's much different with Covid.


Last Sunday I got run over by a truck. Postnasal drip like a river, a sore throat, fever, and a cough. Thought I had strep to be honest and I slept for like 18 hours on Monday. Tuesday I made DH take me to urgent care. Tested negative for strep and negative for flu. Went home and slept... Was feeling well enough Wednesday to go to a meeting with a lawyer. Thursday, no fever and I was lagging a bit and DH stayed home with a cold, we both slept. We spent the weekend just taking it easy. Sunday I start sniffling. Monday DH goes back to work and it's round two for me... runny nose to end all... a box and a half of kleenex the first day. No cold or flu meds touch it... cough, sinus pressure, but no fever. Had GD for a few hours on Monday, slept when she slept and suffered through the rest until DIL picked her up. Tuesday... layed out nose still running, still coughing... Today, a bit better. But I'm not going anywhere until I get 48 hours of 'feel good time'. Told DS and DIL not to bring GD over, not to come over... canceled plans--even canceled a camping trip DH had planned.

Covid-19 aside, the colds this year are vicious. I haven't been knocked down like this in years.


----------



## geo in mi

Overheard in the rest room:
"Pssst, hey, can I borrow some toilet paper?"

"Sorry, there's hardly enough for me."

"Psssst, got five ones for a five?"



geo


----------



## gleepish

robin416 said:


> Not a chance it was allergies. The big hint was the sleeping. I slept, a lot. And my allergies are never as bad as the amount of nose blowing and coughing that I've done the past week.


I hit 'post' too soon and didn't add:

Feel better soon!


----------



## robin416

gleepish said:


> I hit 'post' too soon and didn't add:
> 
> Feel better soon!


LOL I do that. But I am most definitely on the mend. 

And you're right, none of the stuff we use for allergies touches it. Although I will say Mucinex helped when it came to the cough or nose blowing. 

Since I stay home so much and away from people it was easy to track where it came from. What I didn't know is that a person is contagious for a day before symptoms show up. Sound familiar? And we're contagious for seven days after we become ill.


----------



## Lisa in WA

I have to go this am for my one month check after my foot surgery and unfortunately the waiting room is also shared with urgent care and other docs. Hope they’ve done something to protect the non sick.


----------



## robin416

Lisa in WA said:


> I have to go this am for my one month check after my foot surgery and unfortunately the waiting room is also shared with urgent care and other docs. Hope they’ve done something to protect the non sick.


I know you're concern, Lisa. I'm worried about having to go to another medical appointment next week. Although it's not one that shares their space with potentially sick people. Just realizing that I got this from someone asymptomatic has me concerned it could happen again.


----------



## gleepish

robin416 said:


> I know you're concern, Lisa. I'm worried about having to go to another medical appointment next week. Although it's not one that shares their space with potentially sick people. Just realizing that I got this from someone asymptomatic has me concerned it could happen again.


LOL definitely agree... I've got my doctors office calling to schedule an MRI and an EMG--I don't want to go for either until things have settled down a bit---I figure waiting another month or so wont hurt me.


----------



## Lisa in WA

They have no masks available for sick people, they are giving them out to the sick as you check in. But there is a long line for check in. Not sure how much the masks will help at that point.


----------



## HDRider

Lisa in WA said:


> I have to go this am for my one month check after my foot surgery and unfortunately the waiting room is also shared with urgent care and other docs. Hope they’ve done something to protect the non sick.


Don't go.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Don’t go.


----------



## Lisa in WA

Too late.
but so happy!
No more of that ugly square toed surgical shoe which was like clomping around with a 2x4 on my foot. back into running shoes, just no running.
And hopefully no plague.


----------



## robin416

Hurray for your freedom, now you can outrun the virus if it shows up. Medical offices are going to be frightening places for the foreseeable future. So far, they haven't found the virus here but it would be a total fluke if it's not.


----------



## no really

Lisa in WA said:


> Too late.
> but so happy!
> No more of that ugly square toed surgical shoe which was like clomping around with a 2x4 on my foot. back into running shoes, just no running.
> And hopefully no plague.


Party time!!!


----------



## keenataz

MoonRiver said:


> 1000 cases confirmed on 3/10.


I think your April 1 one will turn out to be on the very low side, unfortunately.


----------



## keenataz

wr said:


> If that were the case, there are a lot of Albertans in trouble because there is none to be had in most towns and cities. Thanks to Facebook, there are groups offering helpful advice on where to stockpile and panic stockpiling is creating an unnatural shortage. Five stores in my town carry various brands and on Monday morning, all five had restocked. By noon, not a roll to be found and the going kijiji rate is $50/roll.
> 
> Once the toilet paper is gone, people tend to buy the family packs of facial tissues and paper towels and lastly, baby wipes so they're also missing from our shelves.
> 
> It's ironic that these new 'preppers' walk past the pharmacy aisles (except for masks & gloves), the non perishable food aisles in favour of more toilet paper so if diarrhea becomes a problem, I don't think they'll live long enough to use dozens of packages of toilet paper anyhow.


No way of kleenex and paper towels. Jam up my septic system.


----------



## keenataz

HDRider said:


> Don't go.


What our local clinic did during SARS. They set up a 2 area waiting area. People with "norma"l or follow up appointments wete in the regular waiting. People who there because of an illness were put into an adjacent ATCO trailer to wait. Also those patients were seen in another small building outside the main clinic.


----------



## jimLE

im sitting here watching the news. then they started telling how one collage campus has these 6 wheeled food delivering robot's are going around delivering food to who ever.i can't help but wonder how clean they are.and when were they last sanitized.


----------



## Lisa in WA

keenataz said:


> What our local clinic did during SARS. They set up a 2 area waiting area. People with "norma"l or follow up appointments wete in the regular waiting. People who there because of an illness were put into an adjacent ATCO trailer to wait. Also those patients were seen in another small building outside the main clinic.


You’d think they would proactively and maybe they are waiting for it to be diagnosed here. 
Its Kaiser Permanente so you’d think they’d do whatever it takes to cut costs.


----------



## MoonRiver

keenataz said:


> I think your April 1 one will turn out to be on the very low side, unfortunately.


I agree, but if I underestimated by a day, some people would have said I had no credibility.

The mayor of Seattle says they already have over 1000 cases there and predicts over 70,000 within 6 weeks.


----------



## MoonRiver

Lisa in WA said:


> You’d think they would proactively and maybe they are waiting for it to be diagnosed here.
> Its Kaiser Permanente so you’d think they’d do whatever it takes to cut costs.


Assuming you go by car, you should be able to call them when you get there and have them call you when they are ready to see you so you could wait in the car. Maybe that's too obvious a solution for them to consider it.


----------



## Lisa in WA

MoonRiver said:


> Assuming you go by car, you should be able to call them when you get there and have them call you when they are ready to see you so you could wait in the car. Maybe that's too obvious a solution for them to consider it.


I go back in a month. If the plague is still an issue and I’ve not croaked because I got it this time, I’ll ask to do that.


----------



## HDRider

Lisa in WA said:


> I go back in a month. If the plague is still an issue and I’ve not croaked because I got it this time, I’ll ask to do that.


Don't croak on us


----------



## romysbaskets

Daughter pulled a 105 fever and Granddaughter pulled a 102.6. Her husband went to get the motrin per drs instructions to alternate tylenol and that at intervals. Left his Daughter whos fever went down to watch her Mom. Dr said not to come in. So he drove 35 mins away only to find no medicine left, saw no toilet paper and went on a scavenger hunt! He found what he needed all over the store from people setting things in the wrong area. He bought nyquil and all kinds of things as her throat was sore etc. Her fever went down right away and she was sleeping all day yesterday. We arent going to see her at this point. She says she is doing so much better and her daughter is doing great. No way to know what she has. Sounds too fast of a recovery for it to be the virus. I had 5 cancellations this week with my house cleaning job. I didnt stock pile toilet paper. We have sufficient for a month. I looked up how to make it. Sounds like a fun project on my time off. Heat kills the virus and my little steam cleaner gets up to 300 degrees. Great to sanitize all surfaces. So sorry people cant buy it there WR! I have a packed pantry because it always is! My 200 jars of homecanned goods are on top of that. If folks run out of toilet paper, kleenez, paper towels....there is newspaper you can make it from with and other methods using any paper. Cloth can be used if a person needs and they have bleach to add a little water for santizing. Old sheets??? I mean babies in cloth diapers are a great example.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

anniew said:


> regarding how much toilet paper....enough for them to get off my property without leaving a "trail."


----------



## Bearfootfarm

geo in mi said:


> "Sorry, there's hardly enough for me."


"Nary a square to spare"


----------



## MoonRiver

Congress is being briefed on COVID-19 and we aren't being given the same information. I don't like it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Lisa in WA said:


> And hopefully no plague.


Let me know if you get it.
I might send you a list of people to sneeze on.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Congress is being briefed on COVID-19 and we aren't being given the same information. I don't like it.


We probably already know more than they.
Not everything is a conspiracy.


----------



## light rain

wr said:


> If that were the case, there are a lot of Albertans in trouble because there is none to be had in most towns and cities. Thanks to Facebook, there are groups offering helpful advice on where to stockpile and panic stockpiling is creating an unnatural shortage. Five stores in my town carry various brands and on Monday morning, all five had restocked. By noon, not a roll to be found and the going kijiji rate is $50/roll.
> 
> Once the toilet paper is gone, people tend to buy the family packs of facial tissues and paper towels and lastly, baby wipes so they're also missing from our shelves.
> 
> It's ironic that these new 'preppers' walk past the pharmacy aisles (except for masks & gloves), the non perishable food aisles in favour of more toilet paper so if diarrhea becomes a problem, I don't think they'll live long enough to use dozens of packages of toilet paper anyhow.



But or maybe butt... you didn't answer my question...


----------



## Bearfootfarm

romysbaskets said:


> Old sheets???


Old flannel works better.


----------



## light rain

romysbaskets said:


> Today my son was on lock down in the nursing home he manages the construction/maintenance and staff including the emergency measures. This was mandatory lock down and he had no choice as they were testing a resident for the Coronavirus. In this place of work it is a mandatory quarantine if you are positive. Thank God the resident tested negative and continued to so was deemed safe. They had been transferred to the hospital for a procedure so this was their protocol. They lifted the lock down and the people working there were allowed to return home. 17 miles from the other nursing home, they have no cases as yet. They expect they might in the near future but are doing all they can.
> 
> 2 Seniors are now positive for the coronavirus on the island we live on. They are both seniors and my prayers are with them.


How are the 2 seniors on your island doing? 
What are you doing to take care of yourself?

We just got another load of wood to get us through until warm weather and we are taking elderberry syrup that I ordered from Mountain Rose.
I'll also be making carrot juice today.
Maybe it will not prevent anything but I don't think it will have any negative consequences either...


----------



## Lisa in WA

romysbaskets said:


> Daughter pulled a 105 fever and Granddaughter pulled a 102.6. Her husband went to get the motrin per drs instructions to alternate tylenol and that at intervals. Left his Daughter whos fever went down to watch her Mom. Dr said not to come in. So he drove 35 mins away only to find no medicine left, saw no toilet paper and went on a scavenger hunt! He found what he needed all over the store from people setting things in the wrong area. He bought nyquil and all kinds of things as her throat was sore etc. Her fever went down right away and she was sleeping all day yesterday. We arent going to see her at this point. She says she is doing so much better and her daughter is doing great. No way to know what she has. Sounds too fast of a recovery for it to be the virus. I had 5 cancellations this week with my house cleaning job. I didnt stock pile toilet paper. We have sufficient for a month. I looked up how to make it. Sounds like a fun project on my time off. Heat kills the virus and my little steam cleaner gets up to 300 degrees. Great to sanitize all surfaces. So sorry people cant buy it there WR! I have a packed pantry because it always is! My 200 jars of homecanned goods are on top of that. If folks run out of toilet paper, kleenez, paper towels....there is newspaper you can make it from with and other methods using any paper. Cloth can be used if a person needs and they have bleach to add a little water for santizing. Old sheets??? I mean babies in cloth diapers are a great example.



Scary high temp for an adult. Hope your daughter and granddaughter feel better quickly.


----------



## gleepish

At least it's officially a Pandemic.... as if there was any doubt!


----------



## po boy

Lisa in WA said:


> I go back in a month. If the plague is still an issue and I’ve not croaked because I got it this time, I’ll ask to do that.


My eye doctor is sceeninng patients as the come in and the ones with fever or other symptoms go into a different waiting and treatment room.


----------



## Lisa in WA

po boy said:


> My eye doctor is sceeninng patients as the come in and the ones with fever or other symptoms go into a different waiting and treatment room.


you’d think an eye doctor would be pretty safe. Do they share waiting areas with other doctors?

I need to make a dermatologist apt and I’m thinking there shouldn’t be any pestilence there.
Of the Coronavirus sort. 
I once looked thru one of my FILs dermatology texts with pictures. 
Not good to do while eating. 
There are some NASTY skin conditions out there. 
Hork!


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Here you go, toilet paper panickers.

https://urbansurvivalsite.com/ways-to-wipe-your-butt-when-the-toilet-paper-is-gone/


----------



## Lisa in WA

I have dozens and dozens of white washcloths I buy at target for a few bucks a bundle. I keep them in baskets on bathroom countertops for hand drying, face washing, etc, and wash them alone on sanitize with bleach or laundry sanitizer.
I’d prefer not, but if needs be, I could use them and bleach them like diapers. 

what I really want is one of those fancy Japanese toilets that wash you, dry you and pat you on the butt when you’re done.


----------



## MoonRiver

There is a simple response to the coronavirus.

Everyone wear a mask. Act like everyone has the virus since we have no way to know if someone has it or not. Not enough tests and tests possibly not working before a person has symptoms.

The government should have immediately made sure the US had capacity to make at least 500 million a day. We could contain any flare up by having everyone where a mask.


----------



## MoonRiver

Lisa in WA said:


> what I really want is one of those fancy Japanese toilets that wash you, dry you and pat you on the butt when you’re done.


Make sure it warms the water!


----------



## Lisa in WA

MoonRiver said:


> Make sure it warms the water!


google Koehler Numi 2
That puppy has a light show, plays music, connects to Amazon Alexa, warms your backside and your feet, hoses you down with warm water, dries you off and solves the National Debt. 
Without even breaking a sweat.
But the Amazon Alexa thing: I’m not calling a toilet “Alexa”.

I would call it “John”.

(snerk)


----------



## keenataz

MoonRiver said:


> Congress is being briefed on COVID-19 and we aren't being given the same information. I don't like it.


That seems wrong. I am there are state secrets involved


----------



## MoonRiver

I know of at least 3 drug therapies that have been used successfully in China and S Korea. I don't remember our government mentioning a single one in a briefing.

They are never specific about who is at most risk. What do they mean when they say hypertension? Is it only if hypertension is uncontrolled? At what point does hypertension become an issue?

Same with heart disease. That's all encompassing for any type of heart disease. I have an artificial heart valve, but others have checked with their cardiologists and told it should not put them at risk. So what heart disease specifically increases risk?

By not hospitalizing people until they are considered critical, aren't they missing the opportunity to treat people before their lungs are seriously damaged?

Every day I get more p'd off over the incompetence that is putting thousands of Americans at risk unnecessarily.


----------



## po boy

Just curious about cases and deaths per capita and cam up with this. Cases are from yesterday. I doubt the numbers coming out of China are correct.
USA case loads are low due to lack of testing and we don't know how thorough testing is in other countries.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

MoonRiver, I understand that you are frustrated, but there is a logical limit to what a system (whether the government, the medical system, etc.) can do. They can't address each and every condition in the news or by phone. Consider how many folks in this country are heart patients, transplant patients, and high blood pressure patients. Each of those conditions could be caused by something different.

The best is to make decisions that actually would be wise in any situation, flu for example.

Any person with any heart condition or high blood pressure or a transplant might want to make careful choices. Reduce trips to town, avoid crowds, etc. My husband has my left kidney, and he has practiced caution about crowds since 1994, when the surgery took place.

Years ago, I cared for a gentleman with an immune system disease called Scleroderma. It quickly became obvious that every time we shopped at the grocery store or Wal Mart, he became ill. This was before the hand and cart wipes were provided by the buggy racks. I carried my own wipes and didn't let him touch the cart handles.

Triage is important, and it has been in use a long time. The health care system evaluates people and determine if they can help or not. For example, my friend with Scleroderma got to the point where he couldn't swallow. The doctors determined that his heart wouldn't stand an operation to insert a feeding tube. We came home. 

You said, "By not hospitalizing people until they are considered critical, aren't they missing the opportunity to treat people before their lungs are seriously damaged?" I am not sure what you mean. Do you want every person who has a cough hospitalized? Every person with a fever? Every person who tests positive for Covid-19? 

According to the media, MOST people will not die from this virus. So, mass hospitalizations are not necessary.

I truly don't think that there is widespread incompetence in the medical field. I think the governments are scrambling (and have been since January) to do the best they can, give the complications and difficulties of gearing up a treatment protocol and testing system for Covid-19. Governments are, by nature, clumsy entities.

Stay home if you are worried. Wash your hands. Take a deep breath and go outside and enjoy the day in your yard.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Lisa in WA said:


> what I really want is one of those fancy Japanese toilets that wash you, dry you and pat you on the butt when you’re done.


How much are you willing to pay?


----------



## gleepish

I figure they can't hospitalize everyone, we just don't have the resources to do this. That's why people are quarantining at home--to save hospital beds for the ones that need it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

gleepish said:


> That's why people are quarantining at home--to save hospital beds for the ones that need it.


The quarantines are to stop the spread.
Those who are truly ill are being treated.
80%+ of those infected will not have symptoms, or the symptoms will be so mild treatment outside the home isn't needed.


----------



## gleepish

Bearfootfarm said:


> The quarantines are to stop the spread.
> Those who are truly ill are being treated.
> 80%+ of those infected will not have symptoms, or the symptoms will be so mild treatment outside the home isn't needed.


If we were quarantining to stop the spread, we would see a lot more lock downs. I believe it has gotten past the point of being containable. Especially when 80% of the infected won't have symptoms or will be mild enough not to require treatment--so they wont go to the doctor to begin with.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

gleepish said:


> If we were quarantining to stop the spread, we would see a lot more lock downs.


They are quarantining those who have tested postive.
Some events have been cancelled, and some schools have closed.
There's no need for panic, and there's no way to shut down the country for weeks.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Italy is shut down. I recommend that you look for the Facebook page of Giacomino Nicolazzo. He is an Italian American. His update today tells what is happening there.


----------



## wr

Lisa in WA said:


> I have dozens and dozens of white washcloths I buy at target for a few bucks a bundle. I keep them in baskets on bathroom countertops for hand drying, face washing, etc, and wash them alone on sanitize with bleach or laundry sanitizer.
> I’d prefer not, but if needs be, I could use them and bleach them like diapers.
> 
> what I really want is one of those fancy Japanese toilets that wash you, dry you and pat you on the butt when you’re done.


I feel much the same and if it came to that, I'm pretty sure we'd survive. It just strikes me as the most insane thing to stockpile.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

gleepish said:


> If we were quarantining to stop the spread, we would see a lot *more lock downs.*


You may well see them in the future.
When we see them, you will see an immediate whining about that too.

Keep in mind though that nothing we do is going to stop the spread.
It's a virus, just like all the other viruses that have plagued mankind from the beginning.


----------



## gleepish

Bearfootfarm said:


> You may well see them in the future.
> When we see them, you will see an immediate whining about that too.
> 
> Keep in mind though that nothing we do is going to stop the spread.
> It's a virus, just like all the other viruses that have plagued mankind from the beginning.


I agree with all of that. I'm just pointing out that not all of the infected are quarantined-mainly because they don't know they are infected.


----------



## Irish Pixie

The CUNY and SUNY university systems (roughly 80 colleges state wide) will start mostly online classes March 19th. Whether or not there will be in person graduation is still up in the air.


----------



## wr

light rain said:


> But or maybe butt... you didn't answer my question...


If it came down to that point, I'd certainly share because it's a finite supply and eventually, I'd need to come up with a plan anyhow. 

I have a certain amount of medical/vet supplies I would share as well because I know that I can access substitutions. 

It's probably worth mentioning that my neighbour is elderly and has some health challenges already. I had an epic kitchen failure today that resulted in a trip to town and before I left, I knocked on her door and asked her if she needed anything or if she'd like me to check and see if the grocery store happened to have another $20 package of toilet paper, if she'd like me to pick it up for her. She claims to be comfortably stocked.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

gleepish said:


> I agree with all of that. I'm just pointing out that not all of the infected are quarantined-mainly because they don't know they are infected.


How do you quarantine the unknown?


----------



## Cabin Fever

It's interesting that mankind can supposedly change the climate, but has an extremely difficult time stopping a microscopic pathogen.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Cabin Fever said:


> It's interesting that mankind can supposedly change the climate, but has an extremely difficult time stopping a microscopic pathogen.


Excellent link explaining your question of why it's so difficult to stop a virus. https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why_is_it_difficult_to_control_viruses

Climate change is something vastly different, it's like comparing apples and Buicks.


----------



## gleepish

Bearfootfarm said:


> How do you quarantine the unknown?


BFF, that is my point. I'm not arguing with you, I'm actually agreeing with you. I know you are used to people arguing, but that isn't what I'm doing.. I promise. Let me clarify, I don't think I'm being clear. 


Bearfootfarm said:


> The quarantines are to stop the spread


We are not quarantining to stop the spread of the virus (just look at the flights and travel in and out of WA state much less the international travel still going on). I understand the issues and unhappiness it would cause if we did, but heck, St. Louis was just promoting the St. Patricks day event this morning on the news--big parade, lots of people etc.... Events like that probably need to stop if we are going to even begin to control the spread.


Bearfootfarm said:


> Those who are truly ill are being treated.


I agree. No one is being denied medical care--they just may not be getting it in a hospital because their symptoms don't warrant hospitalization. They are saving the hospital beds for patients that need them. 


Bearfootfarm said:


> 80%+ of those infected will not have symptoms, or the symptoms will be so mild treatment outside the home isn't needed.


I agree. I also think that because we are not locking area's down and those who do not have symptoms or who have mild symptoms will not go to the doctor (any more than most would for a normal cold) and will continue to spread the virus. At this point, we can start over at the beginning of this entry and repeat over and over again. It's just going to be a huge cycling event over and over again. 

I understand that a full lock down is just not realistic in the US--for a LOT of reasons. It just seems like there are things that can be done (like canceling large gatherings) that might actually help stop some of the spread.


----------



## MoonRiver

Alice In TX/MO said:


> MoonRiver, I understand that you are frustrated, but there is a logical limit to what a system (whether the government, the medical system, etc.) can do. They can't address each and every condition in the news or by phone. Consider how many folks in this country are heart patients, transplant patients, and high blood pressure patients. Each of those conditions could be caused by something different.


The virus attacks the lower respiratory system. I can understand that someone with a weakened immune system or who already has a respiratory problem or a weak/damaged heart would be at high risk. But that is not what the government has said. I'm just asking them to be clear. Based on people who have died or had critical cases from the virus, what are the critical co-morbidities? 

From what I had read, people with the virus are discouraged from getting medical attention until they begin to have respiratory problems. People seem to go down hill quickly once they get to this stage of the disease. I'm just suggesting that there needs to be a way to ensure these people receive treatment at the earliest point possible to prevent severe lung damage or death. Again, I don't think the government has issued clear guidance on this.

Herd immunity for this virus has been projected to be between 70% and 85%. This means potentially, every time a hotspot gets tamped down, it can reignite. Even if the virus goes dormant over the summer, since we won't get to herd immunity this season, it can come back again next winter before we have a vaccine. 

I'm upset because every few days the CDC or NIH dribbles out another piece of information. I think they decided the American people couldn't handle the truth all at once, and are treating us like children.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

gleepish said:


> BFF, that is my point. I'm not arguing with you


I'm not arguing either.
I simply asked a question.
Here's what can happen when orders are given to stop the spread:

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020...-told-to-leave-campus-over-coronavirus-fears/

U. of Dayton Students Riot After Being Told to Leave Campus over Coronavirus Fears
_TOM CICCOTTA__ 11 Mar 2020_

" “A large disorderly crowd that grew to more than 1,000 people gathered on Lowes Street starting around 11 p.m., throwing objects and bottles in the street and at police, and jumping on cars. Police gave verbal orders to disperse which were ignored. Police initially launched pepper balls, which contain powder with an irritant that disperses quickly, that were unsuccessful in reducing the crowd size,” the university wrote in the statement. “About 2:15 a.m., UD police and additional Dayton police again gave orders to disperse and moved to clear the street, which was effective in dispersing the crowd quickly. At least one person was reportedly injured by a thrown bottle.” "


----------



## gleepish

I'm sorry to see that happen, but there have been a lot of colleges that have shut down for the same reason without incident. Were the dorms emptied too? If so I would question if everyone ordered off campus had a place to go and if they were fighting for their homes so to speak.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I can understand that someone with a weakened immune system or who already has a respiratory problem or a weak/damaged heart would be at high risk. But *that is not what the government has said*.


That's precisely what everyone has said multiple times.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

gleepish said:


> I understand that a full lock down is just not realistic in the US--for a LOT of reasons. It just seems like *there are things that can be done (like canceling large gatherings*) that might actually help stop some of the spread.


Those things are being done.

I just heard an announcement about playing the NCAA tournament without spectators.
That's a BIG deal.

The media isn't reporting everything because they want to blame the Federal Govt for everything under the Sun.

Many of the actions are the purview of state and local governments.

East Carolina University just announced they are "extending Spring Break" until March 20th, and urging students not to return to campus.


----------



## MoonRiver

*Window of opportunity to mitigate coronavirus, but Congress must act fast: Scott Gottlieb*


----------



## gleepish

We are starting to canceling classes here as well.. and they did just cancel the St. Patricks parade (thankfully) here in St. Louis. I'm glad to see them starting to take action, I just wish they had started a bit sooner, that's all.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

I agree that the medical community and the government are dribbling info. Maybe the hysteria that has resulted due to limited info shows that dribbles were a reasonable course of action.

Herd immunity will develop over time. We have no way to guess how long. Two years? Five years? If you are betting on herd immunity, then you might want to consider not going to the store till 2022 or so.

Herd immunity is the result of a significant percentage of the population having been exposed, having the disease, and developing antibodies.

If any government was betting on herd immunity, they wouldn’t be cancelling crowd events.


----------



## Chris in Mich

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/breitbart/

I wouldn't trust a report as to today's date if it came from Breitbart; more reliable to flip a coin.


----------



## newfieannie

things are being cancelled here also. first presumptive case in NB tonight. the 2 in ns were negative.not likely to be long now. it may even be here. my son told me they started testing here today and people were lined up quite aways. but they were supposed to call 811 first to see if they should go and they overloaded everything. some people just dont listen. 

i think i'll go over to the store tomorrow. i need to pick up a few things for my son like Thermometer etc. i rather he just went to work and go on home after except for friday when he drops in here. i'm in far better shape to get it than he is. hopefully neither one of us will. ~Georgia


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Italy is in bad shape. It is a very densely populated country. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/who-gets-hospital-bed/607807/


----------



## MoonRiver

Unless you're a coronavirus denier, I highly recommend you watch this video. I played it at 1.25 speed. It has 1 profane word in the video, so here's the name and you need to search for it on youtube if you want to watch it. It is by Peak Prosperity, he is a pathologist with a PhD from Duke University. The information from Italy is especially pertinent.

*The W.H.O. (Finally!) Declares Coronavirus A "Pandemic"*

If what appears to be happening in Italy is reality, it conflicts greatly with what we are being told. It is possible that Italy has a different strain of the virus.


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## Alice In TX/MO

One


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## Alice In TX/MO

Two


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## Alice In TX/MO

Three


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## Alice In TX/MO

Four


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## Alice In TX/MO

Five


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## Alice In TX/MO

Six


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## Alice In TX/MO

Another article. 

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-03-11/coronavirus-italy-quarantine-infection


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## romysbaskets

Where we live the ferry to Seattle is nearly empty, toilet paper keeps running out, medicines keep running out, people are emptying the streets early, schools are closed, events are cancelled and restaurants are closing til further notice..a lot of them. Grocery stores are still open along with the drug store. Most people that commuted on the ferry don't now. Companies in Seattle are closing up and having people work from home. Here there are 11,000 people and 2 seniors are the only ones diagnosed so far with the coronavirus. This said, most of the people with mild symptoms do not test and only severe cases are being tested. We have friends in Italy in lockdown and they have been telling my husband all kinds of things that match the current news of the area. 200 people died there overnight


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Chris in Mich said:


> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/breitbart/
> 
> I wouldn't trust a report as to today's date *if it came from Breitbart*; more reliable to flip a coin.


I've asked this several times before and never gotten an answer.
Who "fact checks" MediaBiasFactcheck?

Had you read the story you'd have know it didn't "come from" Breitbart.
Many of the stories on their site originally came from other sources.



> A questionable source exhibits _one or more_ of the following: extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency and/or is fake news.


That applies to many sources doesn't it?


----------



## Hiro

Bearfootfarm said:


> I've asked this several times before and never gotten an answer.
> Who "fact checks" MediaBiasFactcheck?
> 
> Had you read the story you'd have know it didn't "come from" Breitbart.
> Many of the stories on their site originally came from other sources.


Like other online news outlets? 
*Qui gladio ferit, gladio perit*


----------



## 101pigs

MoonRiver said:


> There is a simple response to the coronavirus.
> 
> Everyone wear a mask. Act like everyone has the virus since we have no way to know if someone has it or not. Not enough tests and tests possibly not working before a person has symptoms.
> 
> The government should have immediately made sure the US had capacity to make at least 500 million a day. We could contain any flare up by having everyone where a mask.


That would be to easy. The government will never do that.


----------



## keenataz

Wow. Banning travel from Europe. 

Ok. Now has my attention


----------



## light rain

romysbaskets said:


> Daughter pulled a 105 fever and Granddaughter pulled a 102.6. Her husband went to get the motrin per drs instructions to alternate tylenol and that at intervals. Left his Daughter whos fever went down to watch her Mom. Dr said not to come in. So he drove 35 mins away only to find no medicine left, saw no toilet paper and went on a scavenger hunt! He found what he needed all over the store from people setting things in the wrong area. He bought nyquil and all kinds of things as her throat was sore etc. Her fever went down right away and she was sleeping all day yesterday. We arent going to see her at this point. She says she is doing so much better and her daughter is doing great. No way to know what she has. Sounds too fast of a recovery for it to be the virus. I had 5 cancellations this week with my house cleaning job. I didnt stock pile toilet paper. We have sufficient for a month. I looked up how to make it. Sounds like a fun project on my time off. Heat kills the virus and my little steam cleaner gets up to 300 degrees. Great to sanitize all surfaces. So sorry people cant buy it there WR! I have a packed pantry because it always is! My 200 jars of homecanned goods are on top of that. If folks run out of toilet paper, kleenez, paper towels....there is newspaper you can make it from with and other methods using any paper. Cloth can be used if a person needs and they have bleach to add a little water for santizing. Old sheets??? I mean babies in cloth diapers are a great example.


I always keep extra clorox on hand and also 91% alcohol. Also hydrogen peroxide and betadiene
Glad your family is feeling better!
When Costco had a sale on Poise I bought 3 boxes about 5 months ago. Hey they are not going to go bad.
As far a otc we are now taking a zinc a day and elderberry syrup two x a day.
I remember my father, who lived in the boonies as a youngster, talking about using a Sears Roebuck catalog pages as tp and also corn cobs. The only bare corn cobs I have now are sorta moldy and barely fit for firestarters but who knows in a pinch...


----------



## Bearfootfarm

> MoonRiver said: ↑
> There is a simple response to the coronavirus.
> 
> *Everyone wear a mask.* Act like everyone has the virus since we have no way to know if someone has it or not. Not enough tests and tests possibly not working before a person has symptoms.
> 
> The government should have immediately made sure the US had capacity to make at least 500 million a day. We could contain any flare up by having everyone where a mask.


Multiple sources have been shown stating wearing masks could actually increase risks of infection.


----------



## Lisa in WA

Tom Hanks has it.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/business/media/tom-hanks-coronavirus.html


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## keenataz

Lisa in WA said:


> Tom Hanks has it.
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/business/media/tom-hanks-coronavirus.html


I really wasn’t too worried until now.


----------



## Lisa in WA

keenataz said:


> I really wasn’t too worried until now.


lol...sounds like he and his wife are doing okay.


----------



## barnbilder

Chris in Mich said:


> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/breitbart/
> 
> I wouldn't trust a report as to today's date if it came from Breitbart; more reliable to flip a coin.


You are perfectly welcome to be as uninformed as you like. Free country for the time being.


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## Bearfootfarm

nchobbyfarm said:


> But it's just a cold!


That's true for 80%+


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## barnbilder

Just think. Once upon a time, Corona virus 229E and Corona virus OC43 were setting right where Corona virus 19 is right now. And yet, somehow, we survived.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

NBA Game halted due to player testing positive
Season may be suspended:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1237896140525162500

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...navirus-thunder-and-jazz-players-quarantined/


> *Rudy Gobert reportedly tests positive for coronavirus; Thunder and Jazz players quarantined*
> *The NBA has temporarily suspended the season following Wednesday's Jazz-Thunder postponement*


----------



## Bearfootfarm

nchobbyfarm said:


> I have a mother still alive and a wife, son and granddaughter all with compromising health issues. Don't give me the standard line that my Federal government is peddling about it not being an issue for most.


It's just reality.



nchobbyfarm said:


> It's an issue for my family which is all I'm responsible to protect. And my son works in the healthcare industry helping others.
> 
> Screw your internet warrior antics. Give it a break for once.


I'm sorry the truth upsets you so.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-80-percent-cases-are-mild-2020-2



> The biggest breakdown yet of novel coronavirus cases suggests that *80% are mild*. Some patients never show symptoms.


----------



## Chris in Mich

I am far more informed than the average bear (no "foot" intended). I have personally drilled through several Breitbart sources only to find that Breitbart itself is the source -- FOX News does the same thing. If i have to research every story because i'm uncertain if i should trust it or not, i'll simply move on. Except for "live" events (speeches, hearings, etc) i rarely watch any visual media source (instead opting for proper print journalism - even if it is electronic). Still, i do look at Breitbart and Fox and even listen to Rush from time to time but my patience runs thin as they amp up their shrill tone. Network news is a farce and should be punished for not using the nightly news as it once did (in exchange for the FCC granting them broadcast bandwidth). I can watch youtube if i want to see another squirrel water skiing behind a remote control boat or i can watch regular commercial TV if i want to see what new Rx i need to ask my doctor about.

In fact, that is another problem i have with Trump: he reads nothing -- it's only the talking heads that get his attention; a child responding to a shiny plaything.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Chris in Mich said:


> In fact, that is another problem i have with *Trump*: he reads nothing


Like thread titles?



> *No Politics* - Coronavirus Thread


----------



## Chris in Mich

MY MISTAKE - APOLOGIES.


----------



## Miss Kay

Well, it finally made it to Arkansas. I've never been a "prepper" but I stocked up today. I seem to always be out of something and make a trip to the store every day but no more. I made a list of my favorite meals and then made a list of what I needed to make these meals over and over and filled up a cart today. Yes, I got toilet paper too but they were out of hand sanitizer. So, except for supplies to build the house we have no reason to leave this hill for a month or more. Hopefully we'll know more about what we are facing by then. If I have to, I'll go to Walmart when they open and get what I need while the store is empty.


----------



## keenataz

Chris in Mich said:


> I am far more informed than the average bear (no "foot" intended). I have personally drilled through several Breitbart sources only to find that Breitbart itself is the source -- FOX News does the same thing. If i have to research every story because i'm uncertain if i should trust it or not, i'll simply move on. Except for "live" events (speeches, hearings, etc) i rarely watch any visual media source (instead opting for proper print journalism - even if it is electronic). Still, i do look at Breitbart and Fox and even listen to Rush from time to time but my patience runs thin as they amp up their shrill tone. Network news is a farce and should be punished for not using the nightly news as it once did (in exchange for the FCC granting them broadcast bandwidth). I can watch youtube if i want to see another squirrel water skiing behind a remote control boat or i can watch regular commercial TV if i want to see what new Rx i need to ask my doctor about.
> 
> In fact, that is another problem i have with Trump: he reads nothing -- it's only the talking heads that get his attention; a child responding to a shiny plaything.


Shhh. Don’t tell them that


----------



## nchobbyfarm

keenataz said:


> Guys don’t ruin this thread please


I used the delete feature.


----------



## Shrek

The folks stockpiling now reminds me of the Depression stories my maternal grandfather who lived in Chicago in the 1930s and my father and his father who lived here.

Both grandfathers told of hardship of finding work and my mother's father told of day laboring in between his inner city delivery truck teamster work and my paternal grandfather told of he and my great uncle deciding that he would catch a freight train in search of a job to send money home as his brother , my father. grandmother , grear aunt and cousins worked both farms.

My maternal grandfather had stories of sometimes coming home with a few ears of corn or some potatoes and some "go blind looking for the pork" pork and beans to ration feed he. my grandmother and older aunts and uncle on the maternal side.

Ny father on the other hand as a child of the Depression living rural complained of only having everyday shoes during school, being forced to go barefoot and stepping on stones or dead bees , eating so much chicken and vegetables and the joy of when a wire instead of letter from my grandfather came because he only sent wires when he sent money home to pay the farm cash needs and my father knew if money came, his mother and aunt would spare enough to buy the kids some baloney they could fry up instead of the usual farm killed chickens . some peanut butter or for a real treat some Moon Pies and soda pop when the family walked to and from town to buy store bought staples.

Yesterday during my 3 month trip to the store for my coffee and other store bought staples , seeing folks bulk buy canned goods , meat and such. I thought of my father and grandfathers stories of the Depression as I got my 3 month list, I decided I liked living my rural lifestyle better than the city lifestyle I lived during the first 15 years of my in the city close to my job employment.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Miss Kay said:


> So, except for supplies to build the house we have no reason to leave this hill for a month or more.


You can make hand sanitizer with Aloe lotion and alcohol.
There are lots of recipes online.


----------



## light rain

romysbaskets said:


> Where we live the ferry to Seattle is nearly empty, toilet paper keeps running out, medicines keep running out, people are emptying the streets early, schools are closed, events are cancelled and restaurants are closing til further notice..a lot of them. Grocery stores are still open along with the drug store. Most people that commuted on the ferry don't now. Companies in Seattle are closing up and having people work from home. Here there are 11,000 people and 2 seniors are the only ones diagnosed so far with the coronavirus. This said, most of the people with mild symptoms do not test and only severe cases are being tested. We have friends in Italy in lockdown and they have been telling my husband all kinds of things that match the current news of the area. 200 people died there overnight


----------



## romysbaskets

light rain said:


> I always keep extra clorox on hand and also 91% alcohol. Also hydrogen peroxide and betadiene
> Glad your family is feeling better!
> When Costco had a sale on Poise I bought 3 boxes about 5 months ago. Hey they are not going to go bad.
> As far a otc we are now taking a zinc a day and elderberry syrup two x a day.
> I remember my father, who lived in the boonies as a youngster, talking about using a Sears Roebuck catalog pages as tp and also corn cobs. The only bare corn cobs I have now are sorta moldy and barely fit for firestarters but who knows in a pinch...


Thank you! She pulled another fever last night....waiting to hear how she will do tonight. I have everything I need and think that not being prepared for things is silly. I never would hoard toilet paper...good grief. You can even make it and as for Bleach...gosh I have that plus everything else. Her hubby should have called us..we have everything we need.


----------



## romysbaskets

Bearfootfarm said:


> You can make hand sanitizer with Aloe lotion and alcohol.
> There are lots of recipes online.


I have 3 huge Aloe Vera plants and always have alcohol. I am not buying any gel as I can easily make it.


----------



## wr

The thread has already been cleaned up twice and if it's going to turn into an event over sources, I'll lock it. 

Keep it civil and respectful and non political, if you want to keep it open.


----------



## MoonRiver

Critical information. 

Plus, I have a new source of information. I do the opposite of whatever Dr Siegel on Fox News recommends.



> A study awaiting peer review from scientists at Princeton University, the University of California-Los Angeles and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) posted online Wednesday indicated that the COVID-19 virus could remain viable in the air "*up to 3 hours post aerosolization*," while remaining *alive on plastic and other surfaces for up to three days*.


https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487110-tests-indicate-coronavirus-can-survive-in-the-air


----------



## po boy

MoonRiver said:


> Critical information.
> 
> Plus, I have a new source of information. I do the opposite of whatever Dr Siegel on Fox News recommends.
> 
> https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487110-tests-indicate-coronavirus-can-survive-in-the-air


Just do a spreadsheet showing the exact time someone comes in range and set your watch for 3 hours before u move. Of course, new arrivals in your range will need to be logged and timed to be safe. That's what the spreadsheet is for.


----------



## newfieannie

i went out today to get a few things. got my son a thermometer and earache drops at the pharmacy first. no frills next. they had chic. on sale. only 3 per family per day so i'll run back in the morning to get 3 more. only 6 min or so. then i went to my regular supermarket . plenty of everything on the shelves and all the stores are cleaning. even the dividers. i never thought of them.

they had run out of sanitizer wipes for the carts but i had taken mine with me just in case. 3 or 4 people standing around and the manager was saying they weren't able to get anymore so i shared out mine. i can make my own.

that's when one of the customers told me about the women he saw on tv fighting over tp. i dont see any of that around here in any of the stores. kinder, gentler i guess although those kind are everywhere.

i was in WM last week to replenish some of mine and there were many there waiting because we couldn't reach it. some tall lady helped us. she didn't need any herself. everything was orderly. we patiently waited our turn

the case in NB is confirmed. guess i'll lock down again after my son goes tomorrow and Jay from next door gets over to get the stuff i have for the kids .VD, STPats day and Easter~Georgia


----------



## ladytoysdream

I heard yesterday that our local Walmart had no TP on the shelves and no bottled water.
That kind of amazed me. My source is a family member who went there.

They are in the process of shutting down NY state colleges here for the balance of this
school year. The school work will have to be done online.
So a friend works for a local college and he won't be driving bus now. And no OT either
He has to become a groundskeeper for the balance of this school year.
A family member works for another college. His job is secure and mandatory even if
there is no school in session. So he is safe.


----------



## keenataz

ladytoysdream said:


> I heard yesterday that our local Walmart had no TP on the shelves and no bottled water.
> That kind of amazed me. My source is a family member who went there.
> 
> They are in the process of shutting down NY state colleges here for the balance of this
> school year. The school work will have to be done online.
> So a friend works for a local college and he won't be driving bus now. And no OT either
> He has to become a groundskeeper for the balance of this school year.
> A family member works for another college. His job is secure and mandatory even if
> there is no school in session. So he is safe.



It is people like your friend who are going to suffer ecenomically from this. Sorry to hear


----------



## keenataz

Apparently Trump met with a Brazilian official at Mar a Lago last weekend who now is positive for the virus. In no way do I want him to get the virus, but hopefully he is getting tested. My question is what will they do with the resort. I would assume close it down for complete disinfecting.

*Days after being with Trump and Pence, Brazilian official tests positive for the virus, reports say.*
A senior Brazilian government official who visited Mar-a-Lago days ago, and was in close proximity to President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence, has tested positive for the new coronavirus, Brazil’s government confirmed on Thursday.


----------



## frogmammy

I ordered TP with an online grocery order for four rolls from Walmart and picked up yesterday morning. No TP, all out. Stopped by Walgreens and they had a lot.

I buy TP once every year and was at Costco on Monday morning, and they were out. 

All just depends on where you are. And when you are.

Mon


----------



## romysbaskets

Well things are getting worse here, more places are closing putting people out of work. All events are cancelled, restaurants are closing left and right, leaving all those workers out of work, our economy here is going to be hit so hard. The little Mom and Pop stores will fold fast. We are getting prepared for my work to be pretty much gone soon! I lost 6 jobs this week cutting my pay into 1/3 of what I usually make. I clean homes and apts so that is going to be not feasible to do much longer. I have verified risk with each client...one family has a cold, others have different reasons including a birthday and one client forgot..one client just traveled to Florida a week ago and saw a lot of people....she wasn't careful enough so put herself on 2 week home quarantine....one can't afford it and so on. Sure affects me fast but we are being as frugal as we can. I am prepared in most respects but can't go without work income for very long. I think we have 3 months reserves to cover the bills....that isn't enough for me to feel comfortable for sure.


----------



## keenataz

romysbaskets said:


> Well things are getting worse here, more places are closing putting people out of work. All events are cancelled, restaurants are closing left and right, leaving all those workers out of work, our economy here is going to be hit so hard. The little Mom and Pop stores will fold fast. We are getting prepared for my work to be pretty much gone soon! I lost 6 jobs this week cutting my pay into 1/3 of what I usually make. I clean homes and apts so that is going to be not feasible to do much longer. I have verified risk with each client...one family has a cold, others have different reasons including a birthday and one client forgot..one client just traveled to Florida a week ago and saw a lot of people....she wasn't careful enough so put herself on 2 week home quarantine....one can't afford it and so on. Sure affects me fast but we are being as frugal as we can. I am prepared in most respects but can't go without work income for very long. I think we have 3 months reserves to cover the bills....that isn't enough for me to feel comfortable for sure.


Good luck, I hope it works out for you. But you are right, it is th elittle guys/gals who will feel the pain


----------



## gleepish

romysbaskets said:


> Well things are getting worse here, more places are closing putting people out of work. All events are cancelled, restaurants are closing left and right, leaving all those workers out of work, our economy here is going to be hit so hard. The little Mom and Pop stores will fold fast. We are getting prepared for my work to be pretty much gone soon! I lost 6 jobs this week cutting my pay into 1/3 of what I usually make. I clean homes and apts so that is going to be not feasible to do much longer. I have verified risk with each client...one family has a cold, others have different reasons including a birthday and one client forgot..one client just traveled to Florida a week ago and saw a lot of people....she wasn't careful enough so put herself on 2 week home quarantine....one can't afford it and so on. Sure affects me fast but we are being as frugal as we can. I am prepared in most respects but can't go without work income for very long. I think we have 3 months reserves to cover the bills....that isn't enough for me to feel comfortable for sure.


It is going to be the little guys that get hit the hardest. The small town mom and pops are barely hanging on around here to begin with. 

We only have one definite case and one presumptive case here in Missouri (so far) but we do have a doctor at a local hospital (7 miles from us) self quarantine after treating a patient in OH who later turned out positive--I don't think she's the presumptive case, but could be. About the only thing we aren't stocked up on is kleenex of all things, but we do have TP (ha) so I guess we're set either way on that. We'll be ok for a while... It's our kids I worry about. They're all grown and there is only so many times you can say 'buy a little extra' before you have to just cross your fingers and pray they listen!

I hope your remaining customers hang on for at least a little longer!


----------



## MoonRiver

I think we are real close to some good news. We know there are at least 3 treatments that are being used with some success. There is another treatment that has worked in vitro which uses otc medications. I put 1 bottle in my Amazon cart, but didn't place the order. I went back about 2 hours later and it was sold out.

They need to figure out how to treat the 15% - 20% who require hospitalization. They have to find a way to get them out of critical care as quickly as possible.

The way the virus works is it gets its RNA into a cell, then the cell starts reading the RNA and replicating the virus. What they are trying to do is use some other substance to prevent the virus replication from taking place.

For the 80% that have a mild case, they wouldn't need to be treated.


----------



## ladytoysdream

I am thinking that running out of TP in stores is a real SHTF situation.

I can make do if necessary. Not sure about the hubby.

You want scary, go to EBAY and check completed auctions for TP


----------



## Bearfootfarm

> Justin Trudeau is self-isolating after wife exhibited 'mild flu-like symptoms'


https://twitter.com/i/events/1238135442949566464



> BREAKING: Canada's Prime Minister is self isolating after his wife, Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, returned from London and started showing "mild flu-like symptoms." As a result, the "in person" First Ministers meeting has been postponed.


----------



## Elevenpoint

Y'all need to get some hobbies.
The freak out ain't good.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

I am sitting by the firepit with a beer. Have been a mild prepper since the late 1970s. 

Watching the entertainment.


----------



## Hiro

elevenpoint said:


> Y'all need to get some hobbies.
> The freak out ain't good.


He who panics first, panics best?


----------



## light rain

I really liked the link to "Just touch your face".

Aside from humor though, this medical event is going to impact every one of us.

Joke if this reduces the stress, but, be as prepared as you can possibly be. This is all new territory and nothing like I have ever experienced in my almost 7 decades...


----------



## MoonRiver

Over 100,000 in Ohio with coronavirus.

From the Hill
https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...mates-100000-people-in-state-have-coronavirus



> A top health official in Ohio *estimated* on Thursday that *more than 100,000 people in the state have coronavirus*, a shockingly high number that underscores the limited testing so far.
> 
> Ohio Department of Health Director Amy Acton said at a press conference alongside Gov. Mike DeWine (R) that given that the virus is spreading in the community in Ohio, she estimates at least 1 percent of the population in the state has the virus.
> 
> "We know now, just the fact of community spread, says that at least 1 percent, at the very least, 1 percent of our population is carrying this virus in Ohio today," Acton said. "We have 11.7 million people. So the math is over 100,000. So that just gives you a sense of how this virus spreads and is spreading quickly."


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Austin cancelled their rodeo and associated events. 

Willie Nelson’s Luck Reunion has been cancelled.


----------



## Elevenpoint

Hiro said:


> He who panics first, panics best?


I guess, I had some Franziskaner hefeweizen tonight, went to work today, in public places today also.
Tomorrow off, go to town, get some beers, work in the woods stacking next years firewood. 
I might hang out in the hardware store sniffing others snot droplets if I get bored.


----------



## wr

Bearfootfarm said:


> https://twitter.com/i/events/1238135442949566464


I'm of the opinion that the world would be a lot better off if more politicians self isolated for extended periods of time.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

elevenpoint said:


> Y'all need to get some hobbies.
> The freak out ain't good.


No "freak-out" happening here.



MoonRiver said:


> Over 100,000 in Ohio with coronavirus.


"*Estimated*"



> A top health official in Ohio *estimated* on Thursday that *more than 100,000 people in the state have coronavirus*, a shockingly high number that underscores the limited testing so far.


----------



## Hiro

elevenpoint said:


> I guess, I had some Franziskaner hefeweizen tonight, went to work today, in public places today also.
> Tomorrow off, go to town, get some beers, work in the woods stacking next years firewood.
> I might hang out in the hardware store sniffing others snot droplets if I get bored.


You aren't panicking correctly. More TV viewing is required.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

wr said:


> I'm of the opinion that the world would be a lot better off if more politicians self isolated for extended periods of time.


AMEN!!!


----------



## Elevenpoint

Hiro said:


> You aren't panicking correctly. More TV viewing is required.


I've watched some for the entertainment value, maybe it is a big deal. 
It's not here, I'm getting a few more beers for tomorrow. 
Spring is here and I doubt any outbreak here.


----------



## wr

Hiro said:


> You aren't panicking correctly. More TV viewing is required.


I'm so happy I don't have TV. People are parked in front of them looking for new improved ways to panic. A friend of my had the misfortune of finding her office air a bit dry and had a small single cough and just got sent home for 2 weeks.


----------



## Hiro

elevenpoint said:


> I've watched some for the entertainment value, maybe it is a big deal.
> It's not here, I'm getting a few more beers for tomorrow.
> Spring is here and I doubt any outbreak here.


Now if the beer delivery trucks stop moving, it is truly time to panic. My home brew kit is in disrepair. The still...uh, nevermind.


----------



## Hiro

wr said:


> I'm so happy I don't have TV. People are parked in front of them looking for new improved ways to panic. A friend of my had the misfortune of finding her office air a bit dry and had a small single cough and just got sent home for 2 weeks.


Hopefully, she had stockpiled sufficient toilet paper. Perhaps it is because I live in a rural area, there really hasn't been any lunacy around here other than is normally present. But, my cattle and sheep don't have access to the internet or television. I have censored their access to literature ever since the revolt from the distribution of copies of Animal Farm by my eldest child.


----------



## light rain

romysbaskets said:


> I have 3 huge Aloe Vera plants and always have alcohol. I am not buying any gel as I can easily make it.



How are you and your loved ones?
Our kids are in professions impacted like yours are and I am I am sort of holding my breath.
DH just got out of hospital and rehab and feeling worse than when he went in... Tired...


----------



## Evons hubby

Let it run its course, bury the dead, get busy and make replacements. Life will go on.


----------



## light rain

Hiro said:


> Hopefully, she had stockpiled sufficient toilet paper. Perhaps it is because I live in a rural area, there really hasn't been any lunacy around here other than is normally present. But, my cattle and sheep don't have access to the internet or television. I have censored their access to literature ever since the revolt from the distribution of copies of Animal Farm by my eldest child.


Tell me Hiro, if someone here posts that a loved died of this disease, would it still be as quite as 
amusing?


----------



## keenataz

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Let it run its course, bury the dead, get busy and make replacements. Life will go on.


Are you really that callous?Those will be people’s loved ones.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

keenataz said:


> Are you really that *callous*?Those will be people’s loved ones.


No matter what one's reactions, the end results will be identical.

100 people die per minute on a normal day.

Are you going to sit in the corner and cry over them until you die, or live your life as best you can until your turn comes?


----------



## romysbaskets

light rain said:


> How are you and your loved ones?
> Our kids are in professions impacted like yours are and I am I am sort of holding my breath.
> DH just got out of hospital and rehab and feeling worse than when he went in... Tired...


I am doing well, thank you! So sorry your kids are suffering the affects too. My daughter is slowing recovering but her daughter is doing great. My son tonight had a performance rehearsal for Rock School. Only 6 out of 15 showed up. Two calls came in to cancel lessons for their kids as they can't afford them now. I expect that son to lose his job until this is over. My other son is pretty secure in that nursing home job he has! However if it gets in there..he will be on lock down with them! That is their policy. My job was affected this week, I made 1/3 my normal income. Luckily I have loyal clients who have assured me we can compare our exposure to be safe. They will continue to employ me for now. One who really trusts me has made a committment to hire me for sewing needs, garden needs plus cleaning. She wants me to help her clean out here attic also. I am so into that idea...fun to see her antiques! I have a friend who watches dogs while people go out of town....she lost a $2,000 job and a $900 job as they have cancelled now due to not being able to fly to Europe. She expects to lose her livelyhood very soon completely. Restaurants are so dead that are still open...they will not be able to afford to stay open. It is getting grim here...empty streets...businesses keep shutting down and ferries are even emptier now.


----------



## romysbaskets

Update in our area, all schools closed til April 24th. This brings hardships to all working parents that can't stay home to school them. Online classes are set up for the kids. Depending on ages, this may be hard for the young ones. Still only two cases here which is amazing considering that 14 people tested and were negative and 5 more in another lab also negative. I dont know about repeated testing. Losing 2/3 of my pay this week is my first loss of income. WE will see if this continues with my work. However one client is giving me extra work to help me. So this may counter some loss there.


----------



## Danaus29

The Hill website is useless. Some video kept popping up which prevented me from reading more than the 1st paragraph and 2 other lines. 

We saw on the news Wednesday about the cases in Cuyahoga Falls. I'm just glad we didn't stop there but am concerned about family that live in the area.

Ohio is on a statewide panic buying spree. Lots of supplies gone, alcohol and aloe vera gel among them. Good luck finding a chicken or bread.

I am concerned about the link to covid-19 deaths and hypertension. Hubby and our son both have high bp. Lots of cold medicine can raise bp. So I wonder if those people who died, took the wrong cold medicine which can cause serious problems. 

Quarantine won't stop it unless every single person stays in situ for several weeks. Schools in several states are to be closed for 3 weeks, but 3 weeks is not long enough to contain the spread. Wuhan city is still reporting new cases on a daily basis, 2 months after the first cases were reported.


----------



## Evons hubby

keenataz said:


> Are you really that callous?Those will be people’s loved ones.


Not trying to be callous. Everyone has loved ones. Yes even me! Don't confuse realism with callousness. Mom nature is a brutal old broad, and Father Time ain't far behind in that respect. Tween the two of them they aim to get every last one of us at some point. I'm betting they will too if historytells us anything. Heres the part that gets tricky to understand. At the same time they both work very hard to ensure thatlife itself goes on. Not just us, but all life! We are all part of that huge and wonderful ever growing cycle of life! Where and how it began we will probably never know for sure, and the same goes for where and when it may end. That much really doesn't make any difference in the long and short of it. To me what counts is being in the loop, to enjoy the miracle while we can.., to love, to suffer, to enjoy, to win, to lose, to just be alive! Experience life for what it is, while its here. Be happy! Be glad! Be rejoiceful and carry on.


----------



## Hiro

light rain said:


> Tell me Hiro, if someone here posts that a loved died of this disease, would it still be as quite as
> amusing?


I find nothing amusing about human suffering or death. I find the hysteria mildly amusing and if you believe my levity about it inappropriate, so be it.


----------



## barnbilder

Some of the toilet paper hoarders that have been driven mad by politically motivated media hype, have probably already had this cold and recovered from it. It would be highly improbable that it was discovered the moment it infected a human being. It would also be highly unlikely that it wouldn't spread out of it's area of origin before it was discovered that it was a different kind of cold. I had a dry cough that lasted about a week that started with a headache and fever. Happened about two months ago. Went through the whole family, basically the same. Didn't think anything of it, because respiratory infections are a normal part of life, especially in the winter.


----------



## gleepish

New Mexico closed their state parks to overnight camping until after Easter over the coronavirus. I really hope that doesn't happen here in MO. Camping is one of our most favorite things to do!


----------



## Elevenpoint

Hiro said:


> Now if the beer delivery trucks stop moving, it is truly time to panic. My home brew kit is in disrepair. The still...uh, nevermind.


Beer delivery stopped?
That's not funny.


----------



## keenataz

barnbilder said:


> Some of the toilet paper hoarders that have been driven mad by politically motivated media hype, have probably already had this cold and recovered from it. It would be highly improbable that it was discovered the moment it infected a human being. It would also be highly unlikely that it wouldn't spread out of it's area of origin before it was discovered that it was a different kind of cold. I had a dry cough that lasted about a week that started with a headache and fever. Happened about two months ago. Went through the whole family, basically the same. Didn't think anything of it, because respiratory infections are a normal part of life, especially in the winter.


Jeez tell that to the Italians. It is not a frigging cold to many people


----------



## MoonRiver

People focus on the case death rate, which I think misses the point. 15%-20% need to be hospitalized and many of those require intensive care for several weeks. Their lungs are severely scarred for life.

If a country doesn't immediately get the virus under control - flattening the curve - hospitals can't keep up with the load. That means it may take longer for emergency crews to respond to accidents, heart attacks, strokes, etc. Then when they do get to the hospital, there might not be any beds available. Italy has been in triage mode for days, deciding who to treat and who to let die.

Let's say that just 30% of US gets the virus this season and 15% of those require hospitalization.

330 million * .30 * .15 = 14.85 million people requiring hospitalization

If we aren't able to spread these cases out over several months, our healthcare system is completely overwhelmed.

Let's say you or another family member needs an operation. Nope, unless it is life saving. You can't reach your doctor because he is at the hospital all the time. Your neighbor has a heart attack and it takes over an hour for the ambulance to arrive.


----------



## painterswife

Moonriver, I just posted the same kind of thing in another thread. That is exactly the problem. The pace at which things are going and how it will affect our ability to treat those that are seriously ill.


----------



## HDRider

Bearfootfarm said:


> I've asked this several times before and never gotten an answer.
> Who "fact checks" MediaBiasFactcheck?
> 
> Had you read the story you'd have know it didn't "come from" Breitbart.
> Many of the stories on their site originally came from other sources.
> 
> 
> That applies to many sources doesn't it?


He thinks he is too smart for Breitbart 

I actually used the source that Breitbart sourced from on the same subject in another thread.

Many, if not most, of Bretbart's article are sourced elsewhere, and the source is provided.

The beauty of Bretibart is they highlight news that the alphabet networks ignore.

Really smart people consider ALL sources.


----------



## light rain

romysbaskets said:


> I am doing well, thank you! So sorry your kids are suffering the affects too. My daughter is slowing recovering but her daughter is doing great. My son tonight had a performance rehearsal for Rock School. Only 6 out of 15 showed up. Two calls came in to cancel lessons for their kids as they can't afford them now. I expect that son to lose his job until this is over. My other son is pretty secure in that nursing home job he has! However if it gets in there..he will be on lock down with them! That is their policy. My job was affected this week, I made 1/3 my normal income. Luckily I have loyal clients who have assured me we can compare our exposure to be safe. They will continue to employ me for now. One who really trusts me has made a committment to hire me for sewing needs, garden needs plus cleaning. She wants me to help her clean out here attic also. I am so into that idea...fun to see her antiques! I have a friend who watches dogs while people go out of town....she lost a $2,000 job and a $900 job as they have cancelled now due to not being able to fly to Europe. She expects to lose her livelyhood very soon completely. Restaurants are so dead that are still open...they will not be able to afford to stay open. It is getting grim here...empty streets...businesses keep shutting down and ferries are even emptier now.


It sounds relatively good as far as health for your loved ones. Good!
Also sounds like you work for a great group of people! 
I am sorry about the economic impact but while the loss could be a loved one economical losses are far down the line in importance... Still in my prayers.


----------



## Elevenpoint

keenataz said:


> Jeez tell that to the Italians. It is not a frigging cold to many people


Italy is half the size of Texas, they have the second oldest population behind Japan. 
The deaths are elderly with underlying health problems. 
I believe a few years ago 68K died from the flu.


----------



## HDRider

MoonRiver said:


> People focus on the case death rate, which I think misses the point. 15%-20% need to be hospitalized and many of those require intensive care for several weeks. Their lungs are severely scarred for life.
> 
> If a country doesn't immediately get the virus under control - flattening the curve - hospitals can't keep up with the load. That means it may take longer for emergency crews to respond to accidents, heart attacks, strokes, etc. Then when they do get to the hospital, there might not be any beds available. Italy has been in triage mode for days, deciding who to treat and who to let die.
> 
> Let's say that just 30% of US gets the virus this season and 15% of those require hospitalization.
> 
> 330 million * .30 * .15 = 14.85 million people requiring hospitalization
> 
> If we aren't able to spread these cases out over several months, our healthcare system is completely overwhelmed.
> 
> Let's say you or another family member needs an operation. Nope, unless it is life saving. You can't reach your doctor because he is at the hospital all the time. Your neighbor has a heart attack and it takes over an hour for the ambulance to arrive.


I keep wondering about the permanent long term effects, even for the young. What this virus does seems rough


----------



## HDRider

elevenpoint said:


> Italy is half the size of Texas, they have the *second oldest population behind Japan. *
> The deaths are elderly with underlying health problems.
> I believe a few years ago 68K died from the flu.


Saying that, how is Japan faring compared to other countries?


----------



## light rain

MoonRiver said:


> People focus on the case death rate, which I think misses the point. 15%-20% need to be hospitalized and many of those require intensive care for several weeks. Their lungs are severely scarred for life.
> 
> If a country doesn't immediately get the virus under control - flattening the curve - hospitals can't keep up with the load. That means it may take longer for emergency crews to respond to accidents, heart attacks, strokes, etc. Then when they do get to the hospital, there might not be any beds available. Italy has been in triage mode for days, deciding who to treat and who to let die.
> 
> Let's say that just 30% of US gets the virus this season and 15% of those require hospitalization.
> 
> 330 million * .30 * .15 = 14.85 million people requiring hospitalization
> 
> If we aren't able to spread these cases out over several months, our healthcare system is completely overwhelmed.
> 
> Let's say you or another family member needs an operation. Nope, unless it is life saving. You can't reach your doctor because he is at the hospital all the time. Your neighbor has a heart attack and it takes over an hour for the ambulance to arrive.


This is a commonsense progression that many are reluctant to face. Thanks for posting. It is better to face the truth than to be comforted by a lie...


----------



## Elevenpoint

HDRider said:


> Saying that, how is Japan faring compared to other countries?


698 cases, 525 recovered, 26 died.


----------



## HDRider

elevenpoint said:


> 698 cases, 525 recovered, 26 died.


It is easy to find their score card.

I was meaning as compared to other countries with similar demographics.


----------



## MichaelZ

So if they shut down everything, we lose our homes cause we can not work, can not take care of ourselves and eat properly cause we can not get any good food, we are more likely to die from this thing than if nothing was done.

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease!

Quarantine and protect the higher-risk people that are sick or already weakened by some condition and let the others get on with their lives and work through this.


----------



## MoonRiver

MichaelZ said:


> So if they shut down everything, we lose our homes cause we can not work, can not take care of ourselves and eat properly cause we can not get any good food, we are more likely to die from this thing than if nothing was done.
> 
> Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease!
> 
> Quarantine and protect the higher-risk people that are sick or already weakened by some condition and let the others get on with their lives and work through this.


I haven't seen statistics from Italy that bear this out, but there are many anecdotal accounts of healthy people in their 40's becoming critical ill with the virus.


----------



## wr

keenataz said:


> Jeez tell that to the Italians. It is not a frigging cold to many people


That's true but we also have to act in a reasonable manner that doesn't strip people of their dignity. 

Both my sister and my niece are both nurses. My niece will very likely be front line because she's an ER nurse in Calgary and her mother is in palliative care but wouldn't hesitate to help out on the front lines if she were needed. 

We need everybody to be cautious but the current state of panic is going to kill more people than it saves. Panic caused health care workers to refuse to go to work at a BC assisted living facility and left families to care for their own and others who had no family. Without proper care, those seniors will die just as quickly as those with the virus.


----------



## wr

MichaelZ said:


> So if they shut down everything, we lose our homes cause we can not work, can not take care of ourselves and eat properly cause we can not get any good food, we are more likely to die from this thing than if nothing was done.
> 
> Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease!
> 
> Quarantine and protect the higher-risk people that are sick or already weakened by some condition and let the others get on with their lives and work through this.


How many in the US who lose their jobs would also lose their healthcare insurance?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MichaelZ said:


> So if they shut down everything, *we lose our homes cause we can not work, can not take care of ourselves and eat properly cause we can not get any good food, we are more likely to die from this thing than if nothing was done.*


I don't think that's going to happen.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

wr said:


> How many in the US who lose their jobs would also lose their healthcare insurance?


It would be a large percentage.
I don't think that's going to happen though.
These aren't normal circumstances.


----------



## SLADE

I think they will lose health insurance.


----------



## HDRider

SRSLADE said:


> I think they will lose health insurance.


You seem to have many negative opinions that are never supported by fact


----------



## SLADE

I find most of your post baiting and negative.


----------



## HDRider

SRSLADE said:


> I find most of your post baiting and negative.


Being opposite of yours would make them positive.


----------



## po boy

I think that Italy's problem may be population density also.
The way I look at the data is deaths as a percent of the population.
Italy is at 0016804%
S. Korea is 0001379
France is 0000935
Spain is 0001969
Germany is 0000084
USA is 0000124
Japan is 0000150
China reports at 0002207 but I doubt the numbers are accurate. 
Switzerland is 0000822
The Netherlands is 0000290
UK is 0000147
Sweden is 0000098
Norway is 0000188
Canada is 0000027
Hong Kong is 0000534

South Korea is leading in testing but has a death rate of about 11 times higher than ours.
USA dropped the ball.


----------



## HDRider

po boy said:


> I think that Italy's problem may be population density also.
> The way I look at the data is deaths as a percent of the population.
> Italy is at 0016804%
> S. Korea is 0001379
> France is 0000935
> Spain is 0001969
> Germany is 0000084
> USA is 0000124
> Japan is 0000150
> China reports at 0002207 but I doubt the numbers are accurate.
> Switzerland is 0000822
> The Netherlands is 0000290
> UK is 0000147
> Sweden is 0000098
> Norway is 0000188
> Canada is 0000027
> Hong Kong is 0000534
> 
> South Korea is leading in testing but has a death rate of about 11 times higher than ours.
> USA dropped the ball.


Hopefully I did not screw up your numbers. Not sure it indicates US dropped the ball

Sweden 0.00000010%
Canada 0.00000270%
Germany 0.00000840%
USA 0.00001240%
UK 0.00001470%
Japan 0.00001500%
Norway 0.00001880%
The Netherlands 0.00002900%
Hong Kong 0.00005340%
Switzerland 0.00008220%
France 0.00009350%
S. Korea 0.00013790%
Spain 0.00019690%
China 0.00022070%
Italy 0.00168040%


----------



## po boy

HDRider said:


> Hopefully I did not screw up your numbers. Not sure it indicates US dropped the ball
> 
> Sweden 0.00000010%
> Canada 0.00000270%
> Germany 0.00000840%
> USA 0.00001240%
> UK 0.00001470%
> Japan 0.00001500%
> Norway 0.00001880%
> The Netherlands 0.00002900%
> Hong Kong 0.00005340%
> Switzerland 0.00008220%
> France 0.00009350%
> S. Korea 0.00013790%
> Spain 0.00019690%
> China 0.00022070%
> Italy 0.00168040%


I was referring to getting the test kits out. 
Note that SK did the most testing and their death rates are about eleven times higher than the US. Other countries are not doing a lot of testing.


----------



## HDRider

po boy said:


> I was referring to getting the test kits out.
> Note that SK did the most testing and their death rates are about eleven times higher than the US. Other countries are not doing a lot of testing.


I would suggest deaths as a percentage of population is a better measure of success, more so than how many have been tested to date.


----------



## po boy

I agree.


----------



## HDRider

po boy said:


> I agree.


Too bad people fail to realize that as they light their own hair on fire


----------



## po boy

HDRider said:


> Too bad people fail to realize that as they light their own hair on fire


MSM does not want to see this


----------



## gleepish

SRSLADE said:


> I think they will lose health insurance.


Cigna has already come out and said that they will not cancel coverage due to coronavirus issues--so if your work closes, you keep your coverage. I'm sure the other large companies will fall in behind. BCBS did when the government shut down, they kept coverage active for govt.employees who weren't making their premium payments.

EDIT: Cigna has said they will pay 100% of the cost of Covid-19 testing when ordered by a physician. Not that they would continue coverage if your place of employment shuts down.


----------



## romysbaskets

light rain said:


> It sounds relatively good as far as health for your loved ones. Good!
> Also sounds like you work for a great group of people!
> I am sorry about the economic impact but while the loss could be a loved one economical losses are far down the line in importance... Still in my prayers.


Thank you so much! I am blessed my clients are working with me on this. Yes its going to hit our area really hard. The population is 1/3 elderly so this is high risk for them. The businesses keep closing down here and I expect a very tough impact on the local economy. People are losing jobs and those still working are getting hours cut as concern gets heightened. So far I am ok for some months but this may very well be a long ordeal for our country/world.


----------



## SLADE

gleepish said:


> Cigna has already come out and said that they will not cancel coverage due to coronavirus issues--so if your work closes, you keep your coverage. I'm sure the other large companies will fall in behind. BCBS did when the government shut down, they kept coverage active for govt.employees who weren't making their premium payments.


Will this be the same as govt employees if you don't make your payment?


----------



## gleepish

SRSLADE said:


> Will this be the same as govt employees if you don't make your payment?


I'm am going to say yes for the simple reason insurance companies have a bad rep to begin with... no one wants to be 'THAT company' that stops coverage over a national emergency. 

**BUT** I did misinform you above.... Ciga has said they will PAY for the testing ordered by a physician (if you just go get tested w/o a dr order, they won't pay)... not that they would continue coverage if your place of employment shuts down... I'm sorry for that mistake, and I'll correct my earlier post. 

However, I do know that BCBS did keep coverage active for government employees who were furloughed during the government shutdown, I am making the leap to guess that would also apply in this situation.


----------



## gleepish

And... I did find this:

https://www.ahip.org/health-insurance-providers-respond-to-coronavirus-covid-19/


----------



## Lisa in WA

https://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/pro-bend-runner-helps-couple-buy-groceries-amid-flu-fears/article_b591edb8-6494-11ea-a9ee-e71d51f078e5.

Amid the fears sparked by the coronavirus pandemic, a good deed by Bend professional runner Rebecca Mehra about helping an elderly couple buy groceries has gone viral on Twitter.

Mehra, 25, tweeted Wednesday afternoon about buying groceries for an elderly couple who felt too vulnerable to go inside the grocery store. By 8 a.m. Thursday, the first of the tweets had 50,000 likes and had been retweeted over 10,000 times. By 1:30 p.m., it had more than doubled to over 160,000 likes and 31,000 retweets.

Mehra was heading into the Safeway on Century Drive in Bend on Wednesday when she heard someone call out, “Hey, hey, you, you, hey,” she said. “I kind of turned around, and I see this woman waving at me from her car, so I went over to talk to her......


----------



## Lee Abend

If you follow certain sanitary protocol you don't have to worry if the virus is on something or not. I believe the chances of the low. Just don't touch your face without sanitizing or use a washcloth or similar barrier in addition. When speaking keep your distance some people. Often there is microscopic saliva particles that fly from the mouth. These are the two main ways that it is transmissible I believe.


----------



## HDRider

Lee Abend said:


> If you follow certain sanitary protocol you don't have to worry if the virus is on something or not. I believe the chances of the low. Just don't touch your face without sanitizing or use a washcloth or similar barrier in addition. When speaking keep your distance some people. Often there is microscopic saliva particles that fly from the mouth. These are the two main ways that it is transmissible I believe.


Is that really your name?

Do you know what Abend means in computer lingo?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

It means evening in German.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> I think they will lose health insurance.


I think you're wrong.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Doesn’t matter what any of us think.


----------



## HDRider

It just matters that we do


----------



## mreynolds

Pilgrims pride, Tyson and Sanderson farms have shut down as of the close of today. At least in this neck of the woods. But this neck of the woods is where 80% of the chicken comes from. Including shipping to Russia and China


----------



## keenataz

wr said:


> That's true but we also have to act in a reasonable manner that doesn't strip people of their dignity.
> 
> Both my sister and my niece are both nurses. My niece will very likely be front line because she's an ER nurse in Calgary and her mother is in palliative care but wouldn't hesitate to help out on the front lines if she were needed.
> 
> We need everybody to be cautious but the current state of panic is going to kill more people than it saves. Panic caused health care workers to refuse to go to work at a BC assisted living facility and left families to care for their own and others who had no family. Without proper care, those seniors will die just as quickly as those with the virus.



Where I am in Canada, I am seeing no panic.

As far as that assisted living facility, people are going to make decisions that could hurt others. But just suppose you work in one of those places and you have a young child at home with severe asthma, what would you do? Not really asking for an answer, just kind of dilemas people face.


----------



## keenataz

po boy said:


> I think that Italy's problem may be population density also.
> The way I look at the data is deaths as a percent of the population.
> Italy is at 0016804%
> S. Korea is 0001379
> France is 0000935
> Spain is 0001969
> Germany is 0000084
> USA is 0000124
> Japan is 0000150
> China reports at 0002207 but I doubt the numbers are accurate.
> Switzerland is 0000822
> The Netherlands is 0000290
> UK is 0000147
> Sweden is 0000098
> Norway is 0000188
> Canada is 0000027
> Hong Kong is 0000534
> 
> South Korea is leading in testing but has a death rate of about 11 times higher than ours.
> USA dropped the ball.


Sure Canada and the US is less, but when you actually consider where people live, it is much denser.


----------



## keenataz

po boy said:


> MSM does not want to see this


You mean they don't agree with you


----------



## keenataz

mreynolds said:


> Pilgrims pride, Tyson and Sanderson farms have shut down as of the close of today. At least in this neck of the woods. But this neck of the woods is where 80% of the chicken comes from. Including shipping to Russia and China


No chicken wings, what?


----------



## HDRider

keenataz said:


> You mean they don't agree with you


No, he means it is a positive view


----------



## Bearfootfarm

mreynolds said:


> Pilgrims pride, Tyson and Sanderson farms have shut down as of the close of today. At least in this neck of the woods. But this neck of the woods is where 80% of the chicken comes from. Including shipping to Russia and China


If it saves the life of just one chicken, it's worth it!
CLM!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## HDRider

China has chickens with 6 wings, and 4 legs


----------



## Bearfootfarm

keenataz said:


> Where I am in Canada, I am seeing no panic.


I've seen none here.
That doesn't mean other reports are false.


----------



## mreynolds

HDRider said:


> China has chickens with 6 wings, and 4 legs


Your joking right?


----------



## HDRider

mreynolds said:


> Your joking right?


They expect to have 8 wings soon


----------



## Bearfootfarm

HDRider said:


> China has chickens with 6 wings, and 4 legs


But they can move so fast you can't catch them.


----------



## HDRider

Bearfootfarm said:


> But they can move so fast you can't catch them.


They are a race breed


----------



## newfieannie

first i heard about the nursing home. i would think they would be responsible for those poor old people. were they just left to fend for themselves or were their relatives already there. they could likely be fired for that. jmo i must look for that. haven't heard a thing about it. ~Georgia


----------



## po boy

keenataz said:


> You mean they don't agree with you


No, I man what I said.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Guys. How about this instead. 

https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/itali...ws-to-sing-together-during-lockdown-in-siena/


----------



## HDRider

There would be run on ear plugs if joined in


----------



## Bearfootfarm

HDRider said:


> They are a race breed


Let's don't make things racist.


----------



## Danaus29

I find it amusing that on the insurance site, Anthem is suggesting people get a 90 day supply of medicine instead of a 30 day supply. Anthem won't cover a 90 day supply unless you get it through the mail.


----------



## robin416

Alabama has its first case.


----------



## newfieannie

oh that's too bad. last i heard they have tested something like 300 here and they are all negative. my son keeps telling me it's here though they just haven't tested the right one yet. this is flu season here so every second one is sick. we wont escape it that's for sure. ~Georgia


----------



## robin416

He evidently traveled to a state that has very active Covid. They didn't elaborate but said he's elderly and has existing health issues.


----------



## Elevenpoint

newfieannie said:


> oh that's too bad. last i heard they have tested something like 300 here and they are all negative. my son keeps telling me it's here though they just haven't tested the right one yet. this is flu season here so every second one is sick. we wont escape it that's for sure. ~Georgia


You're right.
Up to 650,000 dead....get ready everybody we're going down, it's that serious. 
?
No, the flu and it's like that every year world wide.
Pandemic is BS.
Just another strain of flu.
But go ahead, keep buying toilet paper.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Eleven point, why so grumpy?


----------



## Elevenpoint

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Eleven point, why so grumpy?


I'm not grumpy but this is absurd.
I'll say it now, I could be wrong but this is not a big deal.
We'll see but this is the flu.


----------



## HDRider

elevenpoint said:


> I'm not grumpy but this is absurd.
> I'll say it now, I could be wrong but this is not a big deal.
> We'll see but this is the flu.


You must have just got back from the store


----------



## painterswife

elevenpoint said:


> I'm not grumpy but this is absurd.
> I'll say it now, I could be wrong but this is not a big deal.
> We'll see but this is the flu.


It is not the flu. It does more damage to your lungs than the flu and damage that may be ongoing.


----------



## HDRider

painterswife said:


> It is not the flu. It does more damage to your lungs than the flu and *damage that may be ongoing*.


Hard to imagine it is not


----------



## painterswife

HDRider said:


> Hard to imagine it is not


I read or heard there was a small study ongoing that says after recovery they have 20 to 30 percent less lung function.


----------



## light rain

romysbaskets said:


> Thank you so much! I am blessed my clients are working with me on this. Yes its going to hit our area really hard. The population is 1/3 elderly so this is high risk for them. The businesses keep closing down here and I expect a very tough impact on the local economy. People are losing jobs and those still working are getting hours cut as concern gets heightened. So far I am ok for some months but this may very well be a long ordeal for our country/world.


I hesitate to "like" this post but, I am happy you are well situated to ride it out.
Stay strong and pray. 
*and don't order carryout!


----------



## HDRider

painterswife said:


> I read or heard there was a small study ongoing that says after recovery they have 20 to 30 percent less lung function.


I read what it did and knew it sounded serious


----------



## light rain

keenataz said:


> Where I am in Canada, I am seeing no panic.
> 
> As far as that assisted living facility, people are going to make decisions that could hurt others. But just suppose you work in one of those places and you have a young child at home with severe asthma, what would you do? Not really asking for an answer, just kind of dilemas people face.


I did homecare for over 20 years. I am so glad I don't have to make those decisions anymore.
Especially with a severely compromised family member at home...


----------



## barnbilder

There are no healthy forty year olds in Italy. Thirty two years of smoking is hard on a body.


----------



## light rain

elevenpoint said:


> I'm not grumpy but this is absurd.
> I'll say it now, I could be wrong but this is not a big deal.
> We'll see but this is the flu.


Tells the families of the Italians that it is not a big deal.
*Everytime I hear this phrase I think of J.B....


----------



## light rain

barnbilder said:


> There are no healthy forty year olds in Italy. Thirty two years of smoking is hard on a body.


Show statistics.
*Yes, I thought not...


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

The flu is caused by the *influenza* family of viruses. There are more several variations which is why they mix a different vaccination formula every year, trying to guess which variations will be a problem. 

The current situation is caused by a *Corona* family virus. Some corona viruses cause the common cold, but this is more virulent. 

Saying Covid 19 is the flu is biologically incorrect.


----------



## MoonRiver

The 2 people I have found to provide the best information are Dr John Campbell (UK) and Chris Martinson at Peak Prosperity (US). As knowledgeable as these 2 are, they both have said they expect to get the virus. I guess washing your hands isn't all its cracked up to be.


----------



## Lisa in WA

MoonRiver said:


> The 2 people I have found to provide the best information are Dr John Campbell (UK) and Chris Martinson at Peak Prosperity (US). As knowledgeable as these 2 are, they both have said they expect to get the virus. I guess washing your hands isn't all its cracked up to be.


Why? Neither are doctors. martinson isn’t even a medical person.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> The 2 people I have found to provide the best information are Dr John Campbell (UK) and Chris Martinson at Peak Prosperity (US).


They say what you want to hear.


----------



## barnbilder

light rain said:


> Show statistics.
> *Yes, I thought not...


Impossible to do now that google has done their wipe job to perpetuate this insane needless toilet paper frenzy, but my experience with Italians led me to refresh my knowledge when the Italy reports first surfaced. Until the last decade or so, Italians smoked often and early. Probably a world leader in cigarette purchases, until China took over and eclipsed them.


----------



## Lisa in WA

Bearfootfarm said:


> They say what you want to hear.


Exactly. 
Confirmation bias.


----------



## newfieannie

i dont think anybody is saying it's not a terrible thing that's happening in Italy but as BB says 32 years smoking is hard on the body(although i hadn't heard that before. most likely he spent time there) but that's why i'm so worried in case my son gets it. as i mentioned he smokes like a chimney. not around me but he does. i would think it would be worse on smokers. jmo~Georgia


----------



## MoonRiver

Lisa in WA said:


> Why? Neither are doctors. martinson isn’t even a medical person.


Have you been paying attention to BFF again?

I tend to rely on medical researchers and research papers for advanced medical information. Most doctors are not trained in virology and infectious diseases, so being an MD by itself means nothing. Did you see Dr Siegel, Fox News coronavirus specialist put his mask on upside down and inside out? I can't count the number of mistakes I have heard doctors on TV make about the virus.

Dr John is a Ph D with extensive experience in health care as well as teaching nurses. Teaching at that level tends to make one an expert. Chris Martinson has A Ph D from Duke University specializing in pathology, the study of diseases.

Insulting these 2 guys who have put in hundreds of hours to provide pertinent information about the spread of the coronavirus without listening to them really doesn't even deserve a comment.

Both carefully list the sources of information they provide in their videos.


----------



## Lisa in WA

MoonRiver said:


> Have you been paying attention to BFF again?
> 
> I tend to rely on medical researchers and research papers for advanced medical information. Most doctors are not trained in virology and infectious diseases, so being an MD by itself means nothing. Did you see Dr Siegel, Fox News coronavirus specialist put his mask on upside down and inside out? I can't count the number of mistakes I have heard doctors on TV make about the virus.
> 
> Dr John is a Ph D with extensive experience in health care as well as teaching nurses. Teaching at that level tends to make one an expert. Chris Martinson has A Ph D from Duke University specializing in pathology, the study of diseases.
> 
> Insulting these 2 guys who have put in hundreds of hours to provide pertinent information about the spread of the coronavirus without listening to them really doesn't even deserve a comment.
> 
> Both carefully list the sources of information they provide in their videos.


I didn’t insult them at all. I said they weren’t doctors and the one isn’t even a medical person. 
I think you are deluded. But that’s your right.


----------



## newfieannie

i read that somewhere about the lung function. i don't know where now. i've read so much on it lately. i wonder if it's everyone or just the serious cases where it causes lung problems


----------



## barnbilder

Even if they didn't smoke like a chimney from the time they could walk, Italians still have the problem of living in Italy. Compromised lungs anyone?https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/europe/italy/pollution-other-health-hazards-in-italy


----------



## newfieannie

now that could certainly be one of the reasons why the ones who get this virus are dropping like flies who knows jmo. ~Georgia


----------



## Lisa in WA

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/number-coronavirus-cases-rises-italy-hit-hard/story?id=69513697


*As the number of coronavirus cases rises, why is Italy being hit so hard?*


----------



## barnbilder

http://www.usa.com/rank/us--air-quality-index--state-rank.htm

Which state has the most Corona deaths? Could it be number 3?


----------



## barnbilder

Lisa in WA said:


> https://abcnews.go.com/Health/number-coronavirus-cases-rises-italy-hit-hard/story?id=69513697
> 
> 
> *As the number of coronavirus cases rises, why is Italy being hit so hard?*


I remembered the frequent smoking and swearing, the ever present cigarette hanging from the mouth dropping ash everywhere, and the thickly haired arms all up in the foodstuffs , but I had completely forgotten about the kissing. With the mustaches carrying all the germs, even some of the girls have mustaches, constantly spreading the germs to each others cheeks like little paintbrushes. Regular recipe for disaster.


----------



## mreynolds

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Eleven point, why so grumpy?


He's out of toilet paper.


----------



## romysbaskets

light rain said:


> I hesitate to "like" this post but, I am happy you are well situated to ride it out.
> Stay strong and pray.
> *and don't order carryout!


Thank you so much! Governor just closed all the schools including private! More businesses just closed and we are now on a self imposed stay home unless you have to leave for a legitimate reason! People are helping each other, doing grocery pick up and delivery. No one wants to order take out here...thank goodness. I am a person who would prefer to cook my own food. LOL I sure would not take a chance with that. My lack of work this week doesn't carry into next week. All my clients confirmed due to our entire safety net, we can continue my service.


----------



## romysbaskets

barnbilder said:


> I remembered the frequent smoking and swearing, the ever present cigarette hanging from the mouth dropping ash everywhere, and the thickly haired arms all up in the foodstuffs , but I had completely forgotten about the kissing. With the mustaches carrying all the germs, even some of the girls have mustaches, constantly spreading the germs to each others cheeks like little paintbrushes. Regular recipe for disaster.


Our friends there have said, it was life as usual for a while despite the virus..large gatherings and events. This spread it like wildfire. They have youtube videos of people there trying to warn other countries!


----------



## newfieannie

lot of things closed up here also. march break started today but it's extended to april. people are encourage not to travel. but i see some of them are still going. this one guy said he had it booked for awhile and he was going anyway. real forceful about it he was. i hope he knows when he comes back he will have 2 weeks quarantine. i saw a few though that cancelled


----------



## Lisa in WA

Good news.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...s-500000-coronavirus-test-kits-1-million-face


Jack Ma, the billionaire co-founder of e-commerce giant Alibaba, announced Friday that he plans to donate 500,000 coronavirus test kits to the U.S. as well as 1 million face masks.

"Drawing from my own country's experience, speedy and accurate testing and adequate personal protective equipment for medical professionals are the most effective in preventing the spread of the virus," Ma, who is the richest man in Asia, said in a statement posted to Twitter.

"We can't beat this virus unless we eliminate boundaries to resources and share our know-how and hard-earned lessons," he continued.


----------



## barnbilder

When the news of Italy was breaking I immediately though of the Italian passion for cigarettes. But now I'm flooding with memories.

If a business associate, say from Wuhan China, came for a visit, and that visit lasts for more than five minutes, it is going to involve a meal. If it is for half an hour, it's not going to be in a restaurant, it's going to be in the host's home. If it is more than an hour's visit, and it was planned with more than two hours notice, it is going to involve the host's entire family, and here I mean possibly third and fourth cousins. 

And the kissing thing. Adults give and receive one on each cheek. It is their handshake. But the kids, anybody less than eight gets it right on the lips, by every aunt, uncle, cousin and friend of the family that stops by. Knowing what we know of this disease, imagine how fast it would spread in such a culture.

Don't take this in any way disrespectful to the Italian people or culture, I love and celebrate it, have loved ones of that persuasion, find some of their habits irksome, but love them nonetheless.


----------



## wr

keenataz said:


> Where I am in Canada, I am seeing no panic.
> 
> As far as that assisted living facility, people are going to make decisions that could hurt others. But just suppose you work in one of those places and you have a young child at home with severe asthma, what would you do? Not really asking for an answer, just kind of dilemas people face.


I thought there was no extreme panic either but it seems that one of the papers misquoted or Chief Medical Officer, who indicated that certain sized functions, etc would be cancelled and she did go on to say that religous gatherings, banks, stores, pharmacies, medical offices, etc would remain open and schools closures would depend on circumstances. 

The paper indicated grouped grocery stores, banks and pharmacies in the list of closures. Between the storm that hasn't hit and the end of the world panic, many shelves are bare. 

As for your assisted living question. I doubt if the entire staff happened to have asthmatic children at home and I'm of the opinion that they fall into the category of essential services. 

My sister has worked in palliative care and has helped people pass peacefully from some pretty scary stuff. She's never refused to care for her patients but she has always been careful not to put her husband and family at any great risk. 

Paramedics in my area are dealing everyday with fentanyl OD's and know very well that their patients can kill them but they haven't walked away and neither have our police, fire department and ER doctors.


----------



## romysbaskets

All gathering places are closed here including churches. Nursing homes are not as dangerous if protocol is followed. Where my son works...they still have ZERO cases 17 miles from the one with all the deaths! Its a miracle!!! I told him they need to instill a through the glass visitation to keep their clients safe....they are screening all visitors so far carefully with taking temps etc..asking questions etc. So far it has worked and people are doing all they can here to stay safe.


----------



## Shrek

Our governor is closing all public K-12 schools for 2 1/2 weeks starting at end of class on the 18th to give parents 3 working days to make arrangements now that we have 2 confirmed and 3 likely cases in the state to reduce group exposure of students.

Am I the only one who can see parents with their kids at home as Spring begins and no place to go for spring break plus 10 days sending their kids out to play with their neighbors kids who are also their classmates and just postponing the close proximity factor and putting the kids studies behind?

With the high schools going to be out, I feel for the cops who normally ride herd on the teens on the weekends because they will be riding herd on the parking lot hangout groups every night for the 2 1/2 weeks like they do during the summer since the teens are smart enough to know their young immune systems are stronger and many are less likely to be concerned of being immune carriers.


----------



## mreynolds

Shrek said:


> Our governor is closing all public K-12 schools for 2 1/2 weeks starting at end of class on the 18th to give parents 3 working days to make arrangements now that we have 2 confirmed and 3 likely cases in the state to reduce group exposure of students.
> 
> Am I the only one who can see parents with their kids at home as Spring begins and no place to go for spring break plus 10 days sending their kids out to play with their neighbors kids who are also their classmates and just postponing the close proximity factor and putting the kids studies behind?
> 
> With the high schools going to be out, I feel for the cops who normally ride herd on the teens on the weekends because they will be riding herd on the parking lot hangout groups every night for the 2 1/2 weeks like they do during the summer since the teens are smart enough to know their young immune systems are stronger and many are less likely to be concerned of being immune carriers.



To my mind, that's where parents come in.


----------



## newfieannie

right on the lips? oh my god! no wonder it's spreading. ~Georgia


----------



## Elevenpoint

light rain said:


> Tells the families of the Italians that it is not a big deal.
> *Everytime I hear this phrase I think of J.B....


Not much to tell them, they drop like flies every flu season.


----------



## SLADE

Take one of these in the morning.


----------



## barnbilder

light rain said:


> Tells the families of the Italians that it is not a big deal.
> *Everytime I hear this phrase I think of J.B....


Somebody needs to tell them to quit kissing everybody, and especially quit kissing toddlers on the mouth. And if they insist on it, at least loose the 'stache. With an age demographic that looks like Florida, they can't afford to take risks with these cold and flu bugs going around.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Possible treatment. 

“During the Spanish flu epidemic of 1918, scientists reported that transfusions of blood products obtained from survivors led to a 50 percent drop in deaths among severely ill patients. A similar strategy was used to treat and slow the spread of polio and measles outbreaks decades ago, but the technique fell out of favor in the 1950s with the innovation of modern vaccine science and antiviral drugs, said Dr. Arturo Casadevall, chair of the molecular microbiology and immunology department at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...coronavirus-blood-recovered-patients-n1158476


----------



## MoonRiver

Virginia schools closed for 2 weeks. 30 cases statewide.

All the cases but 1 are in eastern VA. I think this is an over-reaction. Close school districts where there are cases and maybe adjacent school districts. I don't see any benefit in closing schools 50 miles or more from any known cases.


----------



## newfieannie

i think though they are doing it to get ahead of the game. not wait until it starts. that's what they are doing here anyway.


----------



## keenataz

elevenpoint said:


> You're right.
> Up to 650,000 dead....get ready everybody we're going down, it's that serious.
> ?
> No, the flu and it's like that every year world wide.
> Pandemic is BS.
> Just another strain of flu.
> But go ahead, keep buying toilet paper.


Thank you Dr. Glad you are smarter than the experts


----------



## Elevenpoint

keenataz said:


> Thank you Dr. Glad you are smarter than the experts


Thank you, I'll be carefully monitoring the Toilet Paper Flu 2020.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

If someone took enough interest and time to look a bit farther into this, he/she might learn that the strategy is to reduce the height of the curve of infections so that the medical industry can have a chance of treating fewer patients at a time.


----------



## emdeengee

The biggest problem with this virus is that it can stay alive on surfaces for days - much longer than other coronaviruses. 

It can also be shed by a person long before they become symptomatic and will linger in the body for weeks after the person has recovered. Particularly active in sputum thus if you are infected all tissues should be destroyed (by fire if you have a safe fire source) or bagged for proper medical disposal. How that is supposed to happen is not clear.

This virus is also simply shed through breathing - without coughing.

It is also time to pay attention to the toilet bowl. Testing for the virus takes place with sputum, blood and urine. Keep the lid down when you flush so as not to launch any bacteria/virus into the air with the fine water spray. This is going to mean that men will have to change their behaviour. Not easy apparently. In every Chemo therapy room I have had the pleasure of visiting there is a sign over the toilet requesting that the lid be closed before flushing because of the carcinogenic nature of the patients urine. And yet nearly every time you enter the bathroom after a male patient has used it the lid and seat are up saluting and mocking.


----------



## keenataz

emdeengee said:


> The biggest problem with this virus is that it can stay alive on surfaces for days - much longer than other coronaviruses.
> 
> It can also be shed by a person long before they become symptomatic and will linger in the body for weeks after the person has recovered. Particularly active in sputum thus if you are infected all tissues should be destroyed (by fire if you have a safe fire source) or bagged for proper medical disposal. How that is supposed to happen is not clear.
> 
> This virus is also simply shed through breathing - without coughing.
> 
> It is also time to pay attention to the toilet bowl. Testing for the virus takes place with sputum, blood and urine. Keep the lid down when you flush so as not to launch any bacteria/virus into the air with the fine water spray. This is going to mean that men will have to change their behaviour. Not easy apparently. In every Chemo therapy room I have had the pleasure of visiting there is a sign over the toilet requesting that the lid be closed before flushing because of the carcinogenic nature of the patients urine. And yet nearly every time you enter the bathroom after a male patient has used it the lid and seat are up saluting and mocking.


Our government came up with a term we never need to hear. “Feces shedding”. 
Sorry to ruin your day. But it is funny


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

For the nay-sayers....

Flatten the Curve

https://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/...-Flatten-the-Curve-on-COVID-19-568791561.html


----------



## emdeengee

I found this "rant" by a nurse and could not stop laughing. There are a lot of people who are really panicking and they need to calm down.

https://thebuzz.iheart.com/content/...kxPhVAav8lWRemI0ylLnTbAYD6LjkO_uGSGzVirYgEzIY


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

I have need NO ONE panic.


----------



## newfieannie

first positive in PEI. likely wont be long


----------



## emdeengee

keenataz said:


> Our government came up with a term we never need to hear. “Feces shedding”.
> Sorry to ruin your day. But it is funny



I don't know when the government came up with the feces shedding term but I do remember the MythBusters TV show episode where they measured the plume spray from a toilet flush and the fecal matter and other bacteria that was launched into the air - how much and how far. That was 16 years ago and believe it that we trained everyone to close the lid before flushing! 

We never did let the dog drink out of the toilet and then lick the baby but that is another reason to keep the lid down.


----------



## light rain

keenataz said:


> Boy you are a piece of work. Bigotry is ignorance


I agree that most of his posts are distasteful. However I agree with him on one thing. Kissing kids on the face is not a good idea. Spreads germs and one in particular, herpes. The gift that keeps on giving...
I always kissed my kids on the top of their head and also my grandkids. Never cleaned a nutch (pacifier) by sticking it in my mouth. 

I wonder what barnbuilder will do if one of his kids grows up and falls in love with an Italian?
Could be quite tense at holiday get togethers...
*Italian food is my favorite!!!


----------



## light rain

emdeengee said:


> I don't know when the government came up with the feces shedding term but I do remember the MythBusters TV show episode where they measured the plume spray from a toilet flush and the fecal matter and other bacteria that was launched into the air - how much and how far. That was 16 years ago and believe it that we trained everyone to close the lid before flushing!
> 
> We never did let the dog drink out of the toilet and then lick the baby but that is another reason to keep the lid down.


How many chair risers for the toilet have closing lids? I've been considering a plexiglass glued on with hinges...


----------



## Lisa in WA

It finally officially arrived in Spokane.
Though we knew it had to be out there.
People commute back and forth from Seattle endlessly. 

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/mar/14/3-coronavirus-cases-confirmed-in-spokane-county-re/


----------



## no really

Lisa in WA said:


> It finally officially arrived in Spokane.
> Though we knew it had to be out there.
> People commute back and forth from Seattle endlessly.
> 
> https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/mar/14/3-coronavirus-cases-confirmed-in-spokane-county-re/


Sorry to hear that, think we'll all be hearing more of that soon


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Alice In TX/MO said:


> transfusions of blood products obtained from survivors


I believe they found that works for Ebola also.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

emdeengee said:


> This virus is also simply shed through breathing - without coughing.


Source?


----------



## Lisa in WA

no really said:


> Sorry to hear that, think we'll all be hearing more of that soon


They were testing four people from the college community that my older daughter and son in law attended, so I imagine that’s where the positive tests come from. I think it’s going to be everywhere by next week or the week after. Be careful and I hope you can stay put.


----------



## Lisa in WA

Bearfootfarm said:


> Source?


yes, I hadn’t heard that and can’t find it anywhere.


----------



## Irish Pixie

"Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, which publishes CIDRAP News, said that the results challenge the World Health Organization's assertion that COVID-19 can be contained.

*The findings confirm that COVID-19 is spread simply through breathing*, even without coughing, he said. They also challenge the idea that contact with contaminated surfaces is a primary means of spread, Osterholm said."

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/study-highlights-ease-spread-covid-19-viruses


----------



## no really

Lisa in WA said:


> They were testing four people from the college community that my older daughter and son in law attended, so I imagine that’s where the positive tests come from. I think it’s going to be everywhere by next week or the week after. Be careful and I hope you can stay put.


You guys take care. I'm going to be in the states for the next month for sure but if needed I'll be helping out with the EMS here. They are very under manned and I'm one of the few EMT's in the area, we all have been taking some refreshers courses on PPE.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Irish Pixie said:


> "Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, which publishes CIDRAP News, said that the results challenge the World Health Organization's assertion that COVID-19 can be contained.





> Led by researchers in Germany, the virologic study, which has *not yet been peer-reviewed*


----------



## newfieannie

just breathing? good heavens! they are saying if we are over 70 don't go out unless you have to. i was going to get my taxes filed on monday.and then run over and pay the damages at the bank and then home. .

i could wear a scarf . wrap that all around me. hide inside my hood.keep my distance. they probably have the desk where she is a little apart this year. take my bot wipes with me. i do have masks but i haven't seen anyone wearing them yet. what else could i do i wonder. and then there's the waiting room. i have an appoint for 11 but it's usually a little over. i have the rubber gloves also. Etta will think i'm nuts

perhaps i dont have to go to the bank and pay RC. maybe they take it over the phone. then i'd only have the one stop.to [email protected] Block. which is just 2 blocks away. But... it's not here yet! yeah and pigs might fly too. if PEI got it we likely have. although nfld doesn't. then again who knows? i'll have to ponder it and see what i can do for the best. ~Georgia


----------



## Irish Pixie

Wash your hands and stay out of crowds, Georgia. I'm not totally isolating even tho I'm immune compromised and will be 58 shortly, I will be careful tho.


----------



## gleepish

Irish Pixie said:


> "Michael Osterholm, PhD, MPH, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota, which publishes CIDRAP News, said that the results challenge the World Health Organization's assertion that COVID-19 can be contained.
> 
> *The findings confirm that COVID-19 is spread simply through breathing*, even without coughing, he said. They also challenge the idea that contact with contaminated surfaces is a primary means of spread, Osterholm said."
> 
> http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/study-highlights-ease-spread-covid-19-viruses


So I was just talking to my husband about this and he said that was what he thought as soon as they said that the virus was proven to be transmitted through aerosolization. And it makes sense.


----------



## Irish Pixie

gleepish said:


> So I was just talking to my husband about this and he said that was what he thought as soon as they said that the virus was proven to be transmitted through aerosolization. And it makes sense.


Unfortunately, it does make sense. I also think it's much, much more prevalent than the released numbers indicate because very few people are being tested.


----------



## gleepish

Irish Pixie said:


> Unfortunately, it does make sense. I also think it's much, much more prevalent than the released numbers indicate because very few people are being tested.


I agree. Two weeks ago I had a sore throat and a fever but no cough (edited to add: and no runny nose)... went to the doctor tested negative for strep and flu-both A and B. They wouldn't (couldn't) run for Covid-19 because I hadn't been to China or exposed to someone who was confirmed positive within 14 days of my visit. If I had those symptoms today, I'd be tested. (And no, I don't think I had it, I'm just using my experience as an example.) There are so many more people who should have been tested and ultimately quarantined weeks ago and now, we are really just too far behind and are scrambling to catch up.


----------



## Irish Pixie

The powers that be just closed all schools (K-12) in my county until April 13th.

ETA: There are no confirmed by test cases here.


----------



## SLADE

NATIONAL EMERGENCY. Take it up with those in charge.


----------



## barnbilder

keenataz said:


> Boy you are a piece of work. Bigotry is ignorance


Oh sure. Call me a bigot. I really hate Italians. So much that I married one.


----------



## newfieannie

nfld is in and 2 in PEI i think. we are the only holdout now.i do hope my bro doesn't get it. he's 89 but in excellent shape. i'm going to call tonight to see where it is.he's in grand falls


----------



## barnbilder

light rain said:


> I agree that most of his posts are distasteful. However I agree with him on one thing. Kissing kids on the face is not a good idea. Spreads germs and one in particular, herpes. The gift that keeps on giving...
> I always kissed my kids on the top of their head and also my grandkids. Never cleaned a nutch (pacifier) by sticking it in my mouth.
> 
> I wonder what barnbuilder will do if one of his kids grows up and falls in love with an Italian?
> Could be quite tense at holiday get togethers...
> *Italian food is my favorite!!!


Well I guess my grandkids would be 75% Italian if that happened.


----------



## light rain

barnbilder said:


> Well I guess my grandkids would be 75% Italian if that happened.


Then how can you be so negative about an a ethnic group that your own children are born from?
You did not say one positive comment about Italians or had one bit of compassion for the heartache they are experiencing...


----------



## Irish Pixie

light rain said:


> Then how can you be so negative about an a ethnic group that your own children are born from?
> You did not say one positive comment about Italians or had one bit of compassion for the heartache they are experiencing...


It's ugly in Italy. The healthcare system is completely overwhelmed.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Shedding virus while breathing. 
Joe Rogan podcast interview...
Michael Osterholm is an internationally recognized expert in infectious disease epidemiology. He is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota.


----------



## alida

I live in Southern Ontario, where the majority of the 101 confirmed cases for my province are located. I imagine that number is going to continue jumping up for the next while. 

I'm practicing caution,but I will have to go back to work when my time off is finished next Wednesday. My company may allow some of us to work from home, which would be easy enough for me to do but if I do have to attend to the office I'll just do the 40 minute walk each way instead of taking public transit. 
All public schools K-12 in the whole province are closed now for three weeks,most library systems are closed,including mine, and many churchs/synagogues/mosques have dropped their main services until further notice. 
I had a lot of plans for these days off, and i was able to do many of them, but the rest are pretty much a write off now due to closures and cancellations. So, with more time at home now I'm "forced" to spend some time going through several boxes of "stuff" that I've been ignoring for, hum, some time.. lets say.


----------



## light rain

Irish Pixie said:


> It's ugly in Italy. The healthcare system is completely overwhelmed.


I saw a video and it was very sad. A brother and his deceased sister with no one to pick up her body.

I feel very sorry for them. I feel sorry for the Chinese and every other country that has to endure this. The closures happening in the US now are an attempt to prevent this chaos from happening here. I fear it was begun too late.

Have they started the drive by c19 tests in your state yet?
I heard that WI was going to have the capacity to do 1000 tests a day but that has not materialized.
Maybe I got my #'s wrong...


----------



## wr

If members would like to keep this thread open, please review rules.


----------



## gleepish

light rain said:


> I saw a video and it was very sad. A brother and his deceased sister with no one to pick up her body.
> 
> I feel very sorry for them. I feel sorry for the Chinese and every other country that has to endure this. The closures happening in the US now are an attempt to prevent this chaos from happening here. I fear it was begun too late.
> 
> Have they started the drive by c19 tests in your state yet?
> I heard that WI was going to have the capacity to do 1000 tests a day but that has not materialized.
> Maybe I got my #'s wrong...


They have started the drive up testing here. According to a press release, the test collection site is exclusively for patients who have a fever of at least 100.4 degrees and respiratory symptoms including cough or shortness of breath. Anyone seeking a test must call Mercy’s COVID-19 Clinical Support Line before arriving. 

I'm thinking maybe three days before someone shows up without the pre-screening phone call and causes an issue when they refuse to test them.


----------



## light rain

Glad to hear they've got a system set up. Hopefully it will slow the progression and give time for medical resources to adapt...


----------



## barnbilder

gleepish said:


> They have started the drive up testing here. According to a press release, the test collection site is exclusively for patients who have a fever of at least 100.4 degrees and respiratory symptoms including cough or shortness of breath. Anyone seeking a test must call Mercy’s COVID-19 Clinical Support Line before arriving.
> 
> I'm thinking maybe three days before someone shows up without the pre-screening phone call and causes an issue when they refuse to test them.


The toilet paper hoarders will be holding a mouthful of hot coffee to get their temperature high enough to take the test, to make sure they are well enough to go stock up on more toilet paper.


----------



## keenataz

We have to cases in North BC Health Authority. No other location given, supposedly because of patient privacy. Not quite liking that as it is a huge area.


----------



## wr

keenataz said:


> We have to cases in North BC Health Authority. No other location given, supposedly because of patient privacy. Not quite liking that as it is a huge area.


We get the same. There are rumours that there are 2 or 3 cases in my county but our health regions are divided in half so if there is, they will be numbers associated with the Calgary health division.

I can understand the privacy issue though. I know how miserable life was for the poor guy that had the first cow with BSE.


----------



## romysbaskets

Latest death count here in WA is 40. Cases are way over what they state. Our own governor predicts we have at least 2,000 with him expecting double next week. My sons nursing home is still at zero for this virus. I pray this continues as it is so deadly in nursing homes.


----------



## nchobbyfarm

The Governor of NC has closed all schools in the state for 2 weeks. There are 26 confirmed cases with one being a teacher who was symptomatic for 3 days last week while working in an elementary school.


----------



## Irish Pixie

nchobbyfarm said:


> The Governor of NC has closed all schools in the state for 2 weeks. There are 26 confirmed cases with one being a teacher who was symptomatic for 3 days last week while working in an elementary school.


From what our County Executive said, there was no way to keep a separation in the classrooms or cafeteria. I was incredibly worried that some kids would go hungry, but many local restaurants have already pledged 50 sack lunches on certain days of the week, as long as school is out. Not just city/town restaurants either, there are some in the area where we used to live that are involved as well. I asked if one (I know the owner) if they'd accept donations (it's a new restaurant) and I'm hoping to start a fund raiser online for them.

ETA: All of the school districts in our county are still feeding kids as well. They announced all kids under the age of 18 are to be fed at any of the listed schools. As well as the restaurants that volunteered. 

Our area Office for the Aging is making sure all seniors are checked on and delivered meals.


----------



## light rain

Irish Pixie said:


> From what our County Executive said, there was no way to keep a separation in the classrooms or cafeteria. I was incredibly worried that some kids would go hungry, but many local restaurants have already pledged 50 sack lunches on certain days of the week, as long as school is out. Not just city/town restaurants either, there are some in the area where we used to live that are involved as well. I asked if one (I know the owner) if they'd accept donations (it's a new restaurant) and I'm hoping to start a fund raiser online for them.


I am glad the kids are getting fed! But I see both positives and negatives in this approach. Kids not going hungry a plus. Kids getting exposed to the virus through food preparers a minus.

Also I hope that the old folks in the area will not be overlooked. They could find themselves without food, meds or friendly checkups. And again there is the reality of contamination of the prepared food for them also...

When I take the occasional veggie and chicken roast to our neighbor I bake it in an enameled roasting pan with a cover. I usually don't lift the cover (after cooking) figuring if it comes out of the oven hot and the cover stays down then there is not too much chance of contamination. DH is in and out of the hospital often and there is always the chance of him (and me) picking up a hospital acquired infection.

This site is a prepping site, essentially, and I wish more people, everywhere, would take it to heart...


----------



## keenataz

wr said:


> We get the same. There are rumours that there are 2 or 3 cases in my county but our health regions are divided in half so if there is, they will be numbers associated with the Calgary health division.
> 
> I can understand the privacy issue though. I know how miserable life was for the poor guy that had the first cow with BSE.


I have no interest in who the person would be. I fully support privacy. It’s just since our health unit covers such a large area, it would be nice to know if it was in our vicinity.


----------



## MoonRiver

How about a snorkeling mask with a respirator from an N95 mask over the air intake?

I'm just thinking if Walmart can sell a snorkeling mask for about $35, someone should be able to mass produce a tight fitting mask that is comfortable to wear and reusable at an affordable price.


----------



## newfieannie

we are in! 3 presumptive. travel related. only ones left now are the territories. snow birds are on their way. it'll go up fast from what i saw of them crowded together in the airport.


----------



## emdeengee

I am quite worried about how our local food bank will be able to keep up. We usually donate twice a year but are advancing that donation - if we can find the products. So many shelves were empty in the store that it was quite shocking and we could only buy a few items.

This will be a very tough time for many since the reality is that so many live paycheque to paycheque and do not even have enough savings to cover them for a one month loss of income. I know that governments are saying that there will be financial aid but the other reality is that it will not be immediate as it always takes time to roll out these programs. 

We already know that we will be helping out financially. My husband and I do not normally help with money but this is a different case. Even though we have tried to get everyone on board to saving for just such an emergency or loss of income it has not worked to convince everyone. But if this virus goes the way predicted this is not really the time to say I told you so.

I am quite anxious for some of our family and friends especially when it comes to paying rent. Landlords do not have any obligation to put off your rent payment and for them a loss of rent income will also be difficult.


----------



## emdeengee

Very heartwarming story from Oregon. An elderly couple in their 80s were so afraid to go into a store that they asked for help. We all need to pay close attention to those around us as many are really afraid and unsure of what to do.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/corona...ared-to-go-into-store-during-oregon-outbreak/


----------



## Lisa in WA

I worry about the elderly in my community. We are contributing more than normal to Meals on Wheels and on Nextdoor.com, have offered as have many others to run errands and do what we can to help people who need it. 
I’m already seeing high school students offering on Nextdoor to babysit kids who are out of school for parents who have no choice but to work away from home. 
Our school district is going to continue to feed kids and are working on the logistics of that . School is out on the 17th till the end of April here. The public schools and my grandsons private school are providing child care for kids of first responders. 
if you haven’t already, you might join Nextdoor and see what is going on in your immediate neighborhoods.


----------



## Irish Pixie

keenataz said:


> I have no interest in who the person would be. I fully support privacy. It’s just since our health unit covers such a large area, it would be nice to know if it was in our vicinity.


New York releases the confirmed cases per county.


----------



## emdeengee

Just learned that some AA meetings and other addiction meetings are being cancelled. This is not good at all. I am not sure how to help our friends who depend on these meetings to keep grounded and on track.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

emdeengee said:


> I am not sure how to help our friends who depend on these meetings to keep grounded and on track.


Call them on the phone.


----------



## light rain

emdeengee said:


> Just learned that some AA meetings and other addiction meetings are being cancelled. This is not good at all. I am not sure how to help our friends who depend on these meetings to keep grounded and on track.


But being 60+, an alcoholic and infected with c19 would be worse...


----------



## emdeengee

Yes that is surely one way to keep them from feeling isolated (and we have received many phone calls during the day and late at night in the past and knocks at the door) but I know that these meetings and the people they can really relate to are the real foundation for them. It is also the act of actually going to a meeting (or more than one) each day that brings comfort and motivation.


----------



## wr

keenataz said:


> I have no interest in who the person would be. I fully support privacy. It’s just since our health unit covers such a large area, it would be nice to know if it was in our vicinity.


Ours isn't even being broken down into the usual health units. It's just one geographical half of the province or the other.


----------



## light rain

emdeengee said:


> Yes that is surely one way to keep them from feeling isolated (and we have received many phone calls during the day and late at night in the past and knocks at the door) but I know that these meetings and the people they can really relate to are the real foundation for them. It is also the act of actually going to a meeting (or more than one) each day that brings comfort and motivation.



If they have facetime or skype they could meet remotely...


----------



## light rain

wr said:


> Ours isn't even being broken down into the usual health units. It's just one geographical half of the province or the other.


Why?


----------



## mreynolds

Just got word they have put testing facilities behind both hospitals in town for anyone who needs testing. I am kinda ashamed to admit I didn't think they would be that much on the ball here having worked at both off and on. This type of crow taste good though.


----------



## no really

mreynolds said:


> Just got word they have put testing facilities behind both hospitals in town for anyone who needs testing. I am kinda ashamed to admit I didn't think they would be that much on the ball here having worked at both off and on. This type of crow taste good though.


I was the same, than boom our little clinic is putting them in the parking lot.


----------



## mreynolds

no really said:


> I was the same, than boom our little clinic is putting them in the parking lot.


I guess there is not a shortage of tests like media said at first.


----------



## po boy

Lisa in WA said:


> I worry about the elderly in my community. We are contributing more than normal to Meals on Wheels and on Nextdoor.com, have offered as have many others to run errands and do what we can to help people who need it.
> I’m already seeing high school students offering on Nextdoor to babysit kids who are out of school for parents who have no choice but to work away from home.
> Our school district is going to continue to feed kids and are working on the logistics of that . School is out on the 17th till the end of April here. The public schools and my grandsons private school are providing child care for kids of first responders.
> if you haven’t already, you might join Nextdoor and see what is going on in your immediate neighborhoods.


My neighbor's wife is undergoing cancer treatment about 70 miles away and he just got home and checked on me first thing . I was worried about them and it was kind of him to check on me.


----------



## nchobbyfarm

mreynolds said:


> I guess there is not a shortage of tests like media said at first.


I'm glad there is no shortage where you are but there is/was a shortage in central NC as of last night. Hopefully that has been or is being corrected today.


----------



## newfieannie

we have just had our news conference. they have told us where ours is from 2 from metro and one in a county. they said the name of the county.


----------



## light rain

po boy said:


> My neighbor's wife is undergoing cancer treatment about 70 miles away and he just got home and checked on me first thing . I was worried about them and it was kind of him to check on me.


God bless them.


----------



## mreynolds

nchobbyfarm said:


> I'm glad there is no shortage where you are but there is/was a shortage in central NC as of last night. Hopefully that has been or is being corrected today.


Didnt the media say there was only 1 million nationally? I found that hard to swallow as a state as big as Texas or California could easily do 1 million a day.


----------



## robin416

No, the media didn't say that. Those in the Federal Government said it.


----------



## mreynolds

robin416 said:


> No, the media didn't say that. Those in the Federal Government said it.


Yet, they have been testing since day one it appears.


----------



## keenataz

mreynolds said:


> I guess there is not a shortage of tests like media said at first.


Ummm that should have been done 10 days ago.


----------



## keenataz

mreynolds said:


> Yet, they have been testing since day one it appears.


No they have not. Doing one test when ten people need one is not sufficient


----------



## Elevenpoint

keenataz said:


> No they have not. Doing one test when ten people need one is not sufficient


Don't need to test everyone, only if you meet the criteria.


----------



## mreynolds

keenataz said:


> No they have not. Doing one test when ten people need one is not sufficient


Where is your proof? If they havent been testing since day one then how do we even know if anyone has it or not? We have been talking about this one has it or that one has it for weeks now. Why would they test a very young, very athletic NBA player for COVID if there was a shortage? He does not fit the criteria at all. Did he take his test overseas? 

All you have to do is connect the dots from the hysterical media and you yourself can see the truth. They tell you the truth but it comes in pieces like a puzzle. Use logic instead of headlines.


----------



## robin416

Alabama went from being a state with zero reported cases last week to 13 today. Why? Because there were no test kits available until now.


----------



## gleepish

14 days ago I went to urgent care for a strep culture. I had a sore throat, a dry cough and a fever of 102. I was tested for strep (negative) and Influenza A and B (negative on both). I was told that I didn't meet the criteria for Covid-19 testing because I hadn't been to China or in close contact with someone who had been confirmed positive--I did not request to be tested, this was told to me by the doctor as she gave me my other results. I don't know what I had, I doubt that it was Covid-19, but my point is that many people didn't meet the criteria 14 days ago, but if they presented today with same symptoms they would meet the criteria for testing. I wonder what the criteria will be in another 14 days?


----------



## mreynolds

robin416 said:


> Alabama went from being a state with zero reported cases last week to 13 today. Why? Because there were no test kits available until now.


Do you have a link? You do realize it often takes 2 weeks to show.


----------



## mreynolds

gleepish said:


> 14 days ago I went to urgent care for a strep culture. I had a sore throat, a dry cough and a fever of 102. I was tested for strep (negative) and Influenza A and B (negative on both). I was told that I didn't meet the criteria for Covid-19 testing because I hadn't been to China or in close contact with someone who had been confirmed positive--I did not request to be tested, this was told to me by the doctor as she gave me my other results. I don't know what I had, I doubt that it was Covid-19, but my point is that many people didn't meet the criteria 14 days ago, but if they presented today with same symptoms they would meet the criteria for testing. I wonder what the criteria will be in another 14 days?


I think it will get worse as it goes on. Testing criteria will get easier and more cases will be found out.


----------



## romysbaskets

Latest here is a community filled with helping hands! They are picking up groceries for others, keeping elders indoors, closing businesses, posting their pet pics and diving into crafts! Some people are dropping off antibacterial wipes for the elderly outside their doors, others are volunteering to drop food and whatever they need. Still only the two cases here since last week and they are still in quarantine! This community is doing so well at the attempts to shut it down..time will tell. I still am cleaning homes with mutual disclosure of contact and anyone back from a trip, I have put on 3 weeks no cleaning quarantine to keep my others safe. So far we are all doing our part.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Exactly. It is a situation in flux. Development. Transition. 

Patience, Grasshoppers.


----------



## robin416

mreynolds said:


> Do you have a link? You do realize it often takes 2 weeks to show.


Yes, I do realize that. When the tests became available last week they announced it on the news on where and how to be tested.


----------



## wr

keenataz said:


> No they have not. Doing one test when ten people need one is not sufficient


I'm not sure our testing is any more accurate. Most Canadian provinces are seem to be asking people only to be tested only if they are sick enough to require medical care.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

mreynolds said:


> I guess there is not a shortage of tests like media said at first.


They are making more every day.

They are allowing private companies in NC to produce the kits and run the tests too.
People just need to accept the fact it takes time, and treatment isn't dependent on the swab tests.

https://www.labcorp.com/information-labcorp-about-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19

As part of the industry response, LabCorp is working with other labs through its trade association, the American Clinical Laboratory Association (ACLA), to rapidly expand capacity across the country. As ACLA estimates in a media statement issued March 13: “Once additional
*Information from LabCorp about Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)*
MARCH 14, 2020 - 8:00 P.M. – LATEST DEVELOPMENTS

*Media Statement: LabCorp Rapidly Expanding Its COVID-19 Testing Capacity, Expects Ability to Perform 10,000 Tests Per Day by the End of Next Week and 20,000 Tests Per Day by the End of the Month*

LabCorp is rapidly expanding its 2019 Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) testing capacity and expects the ability to perform more than 10,000 tests per day by the end of next week and 20,000 tests per day by the end of the month. We have been working closely with the government and others to increase test capacity and respond to this public health crisis. Our utmost concern is for the safety of the public, patients, healthcare service providers, and our employees, and we are proud to play an important role as part of an industry consortium that is committed to meeting the growing demand for national testing.

FDA-approved high-throughput testing is available on large diagnostic platforms next week, the industry expects its capacity to be increased to more than 20,000 tests per day. Assuming there are no delays or shortages of necessary materials and supplies, *commercial capacity is expected to exceed 280,000 tests per week by April 1.”*


----------



## gilberte

This whole thing kinda makes you wonder what might happen if a real emergency happens don't it?


----------



## SLADE

Someone at the top called it a NATIONAL EMERGENCY.


----------



## SLADE

Bearfootfarm said:


> They are making more every day.
> 
> They are allowing private companies in NC to produce the kits and run the tests too.
> People just need to accept the fact it takes time, and treatment isn't dependent on the swab tests.
> 
> https://www.labcorp.com/information-labcorp-about-coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19
> 
> As part of the industry response, LabCorp is working with other labs through its trade association, the American Clinical Laboratory Association (ACLA), to rapidly expand capacity across the country. As ACLA estimates in a media statement issued March 13: “Once additional
> *Information from LabCorp about Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)*
> MARCH 14, 2020 - 8:00 P.M. – LATEST DEVELOPMENTS
> 
> *Media Statement: LabCorp Rapidly Expanding Its COVID-19 Testing Capacity, Expects Ability to Perform 10,000 Tests Per Day by the End of Next Week and 20,000 Tests Per Day by the End of the Month*
> 
> LabCorp is rapidly expanding its 2019 Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) testing capacity and expects the ability to perform more than 10,000 tests per day by the end of next week and 20,000 tests per day by the end of the month. We have been working closely with the government and others to increase test capacity and respond to this public health crisis. Our utmost concern is for the safety of the public, patients, healthcare service providers, and our employees, and we are proud to play an important role as part of an industry consortium that is committed to meeting the growing demand for national testing.
> 
> FDA-approved high-throughput testing is available on large diagnostic platforms next week, the industry expects its capacity to be increased to more than 20,000 tests per day. Assuming there are no delays or shortages of necessary materials and supplies, *commercial capacity is expected to exceed 280,000 tests per week by April 1.”*


It's going to take a lot of weeks to test MILLIONS of people.
What about reinfection?
MILLIONS MORE.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> It's going to take a lot of weeks to test MILLIONS of people.


There likely won't be a need to test "millions" before that many tests are available.
You could volunteer your services if you think it needs to be done more quickly.



SRSLADE said:


> What about reinfection?


What about it?



SRSLADE said:


> MILLIONS MORE.


What's your point?


----------



## SLADE

YOU JUST PLAY WITH NUMBERS. PATTERNS NEVER CHANGE.


----------



## HDRider

gilberte said:


> This whole thing kinda makes you wonder what might happen if a real emergency happens don't it?


Scary


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

We will perish in a Zombie Apocalypse.


----------



## HDRider

Alice In TX/MO said:


> We will perish in a Zombie Apocalypse.


No doubt about that. The question is; is it going to take more than a new flu to cause a Zombie Apocalypse?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

I don’t know.  I have NEVER watched one of the zombie flicks. 

What triggers a zombie apocalypse?


----------



## mreynolds

Alice In TX/MO said:


> We will perish in a Zombie Apocalypse.


I want to be on Alice's team from Resident Evil.


----------



## HDRider

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I don’t know.  I have *NEVER watched one of the zombie flicks.*
> 
> What triggers a zombie apocalypse?


Me either. Something small I guess, as evidenced by our little episode now.


----------



## doozie

I am so impressed with my small town school district.
They will deliver meal services to ALL students via the school bus. Drop off at the door, 2 days worth at a time, for the time being.
Option to opt out if it isnt needed.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I don’t know.  I have NEVER watched one of the zombie flicks.
> 
> What triggers a zombie apocalypse?


In The Walking Dead it was an airborne virus that laid dormant until the person died, they resurrected as a zombie. Remember, the only way to kill a walker is through the head.


----------



## SLADE

Irish Pixie said:


> In The Walking Dead it was an airborne virus that laid dormant until the person died, they resurrected as a zombie. Remember, the only way to kill a walker is through the head.


Is it like a crawdad. Do you have to suck the head?


----------



## Irish Pixie

SRSLADE said:


> Is it like a crawdad. Do you have to suck the head?


Shoot or stab. No sucking. Ewww.


----------



## keenataz

elevenpoint said:


> Don't need to test everyone, only if you meet the criteria.


And there were not enough tests to test those people


----------



## keenataz

wr said:


> I'm not sure our testing is any more accurate. Most Canadian provinces are seem to be asking people only to be tested only if they are sick enough to require medical care.


Oh I agree. The number of cases is really not accurate. Lot of people get sick, they don't go to doctor. If I came down with a chest cold today I would stay home but unliely go to doctor, so if it was the virus I would not be counted.


----------



## keenataz

mreynolds said:


> I want to be on Alice's team from Resident Evil.


A medi kits everywhere


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Dr Peter Attia and another doctor having a very calm, deep, factual conversation about the Covid-19 situation. Includes history, strategy, mistakes, etc. This conversation answers many questions. 

https://peterattiamd.com/covid-19-update-03152020/


----------



## MoonRiver

This video is just going live. This guy is one of the best teachers I have come across.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> YOU JUST PLAY WITH NUMBERS. PATTERNS NEVER CHANGE.


You just play.


----------



## mreynolds

Bearfootfarm said:


> You just play.


I flunked everything but recess. I hope it doesn't show though.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

mreynolds said:


> I hope it doesn't show though.


It appears you at least graduated.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Interesting clip. 

https://www.sunnyskyz.com/happy-vid...-Is-During-The-Spread-Of-A-Contagious-Disease


----------



## po boy

wr said:


> I'm not sure our testing is any more accurate. Most Canadian provinces are seem to be asking people only to be tested only if they are sick enough to require medical care.


It has to be that way or the testing sites would like some of those photos at Costco. They should be screened by their doctor before going to a testing center.
South Korea led the pack with testing. South Korea's death rate per capita is six times higher than in the US.
Canadians are doing great.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Canada has closed their borders. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/coronavirus-response-canada-closing-borders-to-non-citizens.html


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Level 2 travel advisory.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzann...he-us-is-now-under-a-level-2-travel-advisory/

San Francisco - stay home
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area...ncisco-mayor-orders-residents-to-stay-inside/


----------



## HDRider

*CORONAVIRUS RECOVERIES IN SOUTH KOREA OUTNUMBER NEW CASES FOR FIRST TIME SINCE OUTBREAK BEGAN*
BY JENNI FINK ON 3/13/20 AT 10:11 AM EDT

New cases of COVID-19 in South Korea appear to be declining, and on Friday the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) reported more recoveries than new cases.

South Korea has had one of the largest outbreaks of the new coronavirus, and nearly 8,000 people have contracted the virus, which has killed 67 people in the country. The outbreak appears to be waning, though, and on Friday the KCDC reported that 177 additional people were pronounced recovered from the virus and that there were only 110 new cases.

https://www.newsweek.com/south-korea-coronavirus-recoveries-outnumber-new-cases-1492180


----------



## Bearfootfarm

po boy said:


> South Korea led the pack with testing.


Something like 98% of those tested were negative.
That tells me it's pointless and wasteful to try and test everyone.


----------



## po boy

Bearfootfarm said:


> Something like 98% of those tested were negative.
> That tells me it's pointless and wasteful to try and test everyone.


U r correct


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> Something like 98% of those tested were negative.
> That tells me it's pointless and wasteful to try and test everyone.


I agree. It was all the S Koreans wearing masks that turned the tide.


----------



## nchobbyfarm

mreynolds said:


> Didnt the media say there was only 1 million nationally? I found that hard to swallow as a state as big as Texas or California could easily do 1 million a day.


Unfortunately, the shortage may still be affecting those that meet the criteria for testing here in NC. Hopefully the shortage will soon be corrected.

https://www.wral.com/coronavirus-testing-remains-a-challenge-but-unc-could-help-fill-gap/19014870/


----------



## MoonRiver

The government could have avoided a lot of this if they had just said "We are in uncharted territory and moving as fast as we can. We will probably make some mistakes along the way, but understand we will correct them as quickly as possible".


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Call them. Let them know they screwed up.


----------



## nchobbyfarm

MoonRiver said:


> The government could have avoided a lot of this if they had just said "We are in uncharted territory and moving as fast as we can. We will probably make some mistakes along the way, but understand we will correct them as quickly as possible".


Wouldn't that have been refreshing? A little honesty.


----------



## Elevenpoint

nchobbyfarm said:


> Wouldn't that have been refreshing? A little honesty.


Calm down, it's the flu.


----------



## nchobbyfarm

elevenpoint said:


> Calm down, it's the flu.


I certainly hope your cavalier attitude toward other people's concerns doesn't come back to haunt you if one of your love one's falls victim.


----------



## Elevenpoint

nchobbyfarm said:


> I certainly hope your cavalier attitude toward other people's concerns doesn't come back to haunt you if one of your love one's falls victim.


It's still the flu. Now where do you stand with 20,000 deaths from influenza A and B.
34 million cases.
Talk to me about those 20,000.
Talk to me about my cavalier attitude. 
Bring it, let's hear about those deaths that have already happened and their loved ones. Go ahead and tell me about 3000 cases of coronavirus and 20,000 deaths.
Waiting.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I agree. It was all the S Koreans wearing masks that turned the tide.


LOL
Not.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> The government could have avoided a lot of this *if they had just said "We are in uncharted territory and moving as fast as we can.* We will probably make some mistakes along the way, but understand we will correct them as quickly as possible".


They have said that all along.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

nchobbyfarm said:


> I certainly hope your cavalier attitude toward other people's concerns doesn't come back to haunt you if one of your love one's falls victim.


Regardless of who "falls victim", having a test won't change anything at all.
It only contributes to the statistics.


----------



## nchobbyfarm

Bearfootfarm said:


> Regardless of who "falls victim", having a test won't change anything at all.
> It only contributes to the statistics.


I certainly don't believe you are ignorant enough to believe that confirmation would not lead to quarantine of those exposed to the patient and limit community spread. There are 5 adults and 2 children exposed and need to know whether they could be contagious.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

nchobbyfarm said:


> I certainly don't believe you are ignorant enough to believe that confirmation would not lead to quarantine of those exposed to the patient and limit community spread.


If you think they have it you should be doing the quarantine regardless of any testing.



nchobbyfarm said:


> There are 5 adults and 2 children exposed and need to know whether they could be contagious.


Anyone "could be" right now.

If you think one has it you should assume everyone has already been exposed before seeing symptoms. 

This has all been discussed more than once.


----------



## nchobbyfarm

Bearfootfarm said:


> If you think they have it you should be doing the quarantine regardless of any testing.
> 
> 
> Anyone "could be" right now.
> 
> If you think one has it you should assume everyone has already been exposed before seeing symptoms.
> 
> This has all been discussed more than once.


See! I knew you would agree with me that the test results would change something (anything). I could return to work and begin taking care of my 81 year old widowed mother again instead of having to depend on others to do what I normally do for her. Glad you realized your statement was incorrect.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

nchobbyfarm said:


> See! I knew you would agree with me that the test results *would change something*


You're mistaken.
I already said what it would change.
I also said what it wouldn't change.



nchobbyfarm said:


> Glad you realized your statement was *incorrect*.


What I said wasn't.
You're interpretation is though.

With the proper precautions you can take care of anyone, even if you're infected.


----------



## keenataz

elevenpoint said:


> Calm down, it's the flu.


Check out Italy. They’ll tell you different


----------



## Irish Pixie

keenataz said:


> Check out Italy. They’ll tell you different


Absolutely. 

Iran is digging graves:

"New satellite images from Maxar show Iranian authorities digging large numbers of graves in the Qom area, which media reports say is due to the growing numbers of coronavirus victims in the country."

https://www.space.com/iran-coronavirus-graves-satellite-images.html

But don't worry, it's just the flu. (that's sarcasm for those so impaired)


----------



## Elevenpoint

keenataz said:


> Check out Italy. They’ll tell you different


2nd oldest population next to Japan plus they're packed like sardines in Italy. Few years ago wiped out the elderly, more deaths there than in the US.


----------



## Elevenpoint

Irish Pixie said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Iran is digging graves:
> 
> "New satellite images from Maxar show Iranian authorities digging large numbers of graves in the Qom area, which media reports say is due to the growing numbers of coronavirus victims in the country."
> 
> https://www.space.com/iran-coronavirus-graves-satellite-images.html
> 
> But don't worry, it's just the flu. (that's sarcasm for those so impaired)


The flu has put 20,000 plus in the ground here, plenty of graves dug here.


----------



## mreynolds

Irish Pixie said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Iran is digging graves:
> 
> "New satellite images from Maxar show Iranian authorities digging large numbers of graves in the Qom area, which media reports say is due to the growing numbers of coronavirus victims in the country."
> 
> https://www.space.com/iran-coronavirus-graves-satellite-images.html
> 
> But don't worry, it's just the flu. (that's sarcasm for those so impaired)


Read that Iran just freed 85,000 prisoners. That is pretty drastic.


----------



## Irish Pixie

elevenpoint said:


> The flu has put 20,000 plus in the ground here, plenty of graves dug here.


How long as it taken for the "flu" to put 20,000 people in the ground in the US? You have quoted that figure numerous times so you must have a link to substantiate it. Please enlighten us.


----------



## Evons hubby

I've "checked out" Italy. Seems about the same as anywhere else. This virus is not much different than any other. Those with preexisting health issues are at higher risk than healthy individuals. The flu behaves exactly the same.


----------



## Irish Pixie

mreynolds said:


> Read that Iran just freed 85,000 prisoners. That is pretty drastic.


I read an article about cornonavirus and the US prison system yesterday (sorry I don't have a link off hand) and it could get very ugly.


----------



## mreynolds

Irish Pixie said:


> I read an article about cornonavirus and the US prison system yesterday (sorry I don't have a link off hand) and it could get very ugly.


I never considered the close quarters of the prisons until today. It could get bad.


----------



## po boy

https://www.worldometers.info/#flu


----------



## Miss Kay

Yep the flu is deadly that's for sure but how long has the flu been around. We've all been exposed to it many times over. Let's wait until this new virus has time to expose us all and then let's talk about comparisons. I would hope it would not be as deadly as the common flu but that's not been the experience of other countries hit with this corona bug.


----------



## Irish Pixie

This is information from January 22 to March 17th, not quite two months. 

*Coronavirus Cases:*
188,298
view by country
*Deaths:*
7,499
*Recovered:*
80,848

ACTIVE CASES
99,951
Currently Infected Patients
93,460 (94%)
in Mild Condition

6,491 (6%)
Serious or Critical

More information: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

1. We have herd immunity for the flu. We have no herd immunity for Covid 19. 

2. This is a virus from a different family. Corona vs. Influenza

3. We don’t know how this is going to play out. All speculation is just that. Guessing. 

4. Being obstinate and clinging to false beliefs in the face of the real information that we have doesn’t make a bit of difference in the outcome.


----------



## newfieannie

mreynolds said:


> I never considered the close quarters of the prisons until today. It could get bad.


 no visitors allowed in our prison. yesterday i think that came out.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Video with subtitles from Italy. 

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/video/608113/


----------



## Lisa in WA

sounds smart.

Amazon.com Inc. said independent merchants would be unable to ship products other than medical supplies, household staples and other high-demand products to its warehouses until April 5 as the e-commerce giant prioritizes the delivery of these goods during the coronavirus pandemic.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon...s-from-merchants-amid-coronavirus-11584447888


----------



## MoonRiver

I just learned something new that might be helpful. People with a serious case of the coronavirus have a low oxygen saturation level. This is something you can easily test with a fingertip pulse oximeter or a smartwatch. I believe 95% and above is considered good.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Irish Pixie said:


> Iran is digging graves:


They need lots of them:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-says-iran-may-have-killed-1-000-protesters-n1096666


> Dec. 6, 2019, 10:47 AM EST / Updated Dec. 6, 2019, 2:04 PM EST
> By Abigail Williams, Saphora Smith and Dan De Luce
> 
> WASHINGTON — The U.S.'s special representative for Iran Brian Hook has said that more than 1,000 Iranian citizens may have been killed in recent protests.
> 
> On Thursday, Hook told reporters that the U.S. assessment, which was higher than previous reports by news organizations and rights groups, was based on crowd sourcing and intelligence reports.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I just learned something new that might be helpful. People with a serious case of the coronavirus have a *low oxygen saturation* level. This is something you can easily test with a fingertip pulse oximeter or a smartwatch. I believe 95% and above is considered good.


That applies to lots of respiratory illnesses.
If you have a "serious case" you won't need any test to tell you you're having trouble breathing.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

mreynolds said:


> Read that Iran just freed 85,000 prisoners. That is pretty drastic.


They're some wild and crazy guys:

Tuesday, 17 March 2020
https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-n...burned-down-in-iran-due-to-coronavirus-fears/


> Hospital burned down in Iran due to Coronavirus fears


This will make Great Thunberg happy though:
Coronavirus: Less pollution in Northern Italy


----------



## light rain

Miss Kay said:


> Yep the flu is deadly that's for sure but how long has the flu been around. We've all been exposed to it many times over. Let's wait until this new virus has time to expose us all and then let's talk about comparisons. I would hope it would not be as deadly as the common flu but that's not been the experience of other countries hit with this corona bug.



Unfortunately it may take several years/exposures to build up immunity. How many folks will die before that immunity presents itself???


----------



## Elevenpoint

Bearfootfarm said:


> They need lots of them:
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-says-iran-may-have-killed-1-000-protesters-n1096666


Whoops, may need a few.


----------



## newfieannie

what i think is so heartwarming is so many of our doctors and nurses are coming out of retirement to help. my husbands doctor is one of them . he only retired about 3 years ago. 

what a wonderful doctor he was. everyone was unhappy when he left. i don't know for sure how old he was but must have been way over 70. i was talking to him couple months ago in wallmart. still seems to be in excellent shape. ~Georgia


----------



## SLADE

Bearfootfarm said:


> They need lots of them:
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-says-iran-may-have-killed-1-000-protesters-n1096666


If disinformation is being spread in Iran shouldn't we be concerned that that may be happening here?
I remember a couple weeks ago some were calling this pandemic just a cold.
I don't want to know the agenda of some people as it seems nothing short of evil.


----------



## GTX63

SRSLADE said:


> If disinformation is being spread in Iran shouldn't we be concerned that that may be happening here?


You should have put a smiley at the end of your sentence or folks will think your statement was meant to be serious.


----------



## SLADE

GTX63 said:


> You should have put a smiley at the end of your sentence or folks will think your statement was meant to be serious.


That thing in Iran shows that we need to be careful.
When getting information we don't know if we're being lied to.
We need to trust ourselves and not get caught up in anyone else agenda.


----------



## GTX63

China lied.
China continues to lie.
You are correct SRSlade, trust your self first. Trust your instincts. Agendas built on deceit rely on the fear and ignorance of the masses to succeed,but the lying and misinformation by governments, media or your neighbor didn't begin a few months ago.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Bearfootfarm said:


> They need lots of them:
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-says-iran-may-have-killed-1-000-protesters-n1096666


The link is from December 2019 (over three months ago). The Muslim religion requires burial as soon as possible with no embalming unless required by law. My information was current to March 2020, and in direct reference to Covid-19.


----------



## robin416

Yesterday the administrators of our two local hospitals held a press conference. Basically they said they would like to test more of the population but all they have are a few hundred tests each. They said more are coming. They just don't know when.


----------



## SLADE

Some are saying there are plenty of test.


----------



## Irish Pixie

robin416 said:


> Yesterday the administrators of our two local hospitals held a press conference. Basically they said they would like to test more of the population but all they have are a few hundred tests each. They said more are coming. They just don't know when.


And this is the issue all over the country. Mildly symptomatic people think they have allergies, a cold, or another virus and don't isolate which continues the spread. 

One of our local hospitals have ramped up Covid testing for anyone that has a negative flu test and has a fever, and the number of "possibles" jumped from less than twenty last weekend, to well over 100 as of this morning. Employees have been advised there are no non emergency surgeries, and they will be required to float where the hospital needs them, regardless of their training. 

Mr. Pixie was fitted for a N95 mask last Friday, but told not to use it until there is a confirmed in house case because there aren't enough to replace them as the instructions indicate- every 8 hours. Our oldest daughter (RN floor nurse) has not yet been fitted for a mask. 

It's going to get worse before it gets better.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Cognitive shift suggestion.  

It’s going to get different.


----------



## light rain

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Cognitive shift suggestion.
> 
> It’s going to get different.


You know, it is already "different" from the 1st of March. Words are important and subtle changes in words can cloud the truth. Truth is paramount. "Worse" was a more "truthful" adjective.
Ask any doctor, nurse or ANYBODY working at a nursing home or involved with rehab...


----------



## light rain

SRSLADE said:


> If disinformation is being spread in Iran shouldn't we be concerned that that may be happening here?
> I remember a couple weeks ago some were calling this pandemic just a cold.
> I don't want to know the agenda of some people as it seems nothing short of evil.


Short?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Worse depends on where you are standing, mentally.

If you look at FACTS, and avoid SPIN, there is no worse.

Zen. It is what it is.


----------



## emdeengee

My British friend sent this and it really is the attitude they take - they are the originators of the "keep calm and carry on" message.


----------



## Lisa in WA

Dr. Offitt is kind of a big deal. Always good to hear his thoughts.

https://zdoggmd.com/paul-offit-covid/


*As panic descends and aggressive lockdown measures start in the US, are we causing more harm on a population level than good? *
Regardless of the answer, we need to ask the question. Legendary vaccine scientist and rationalist Dr. Paul Offit and I discuss the current response to the COVID-19 epidemic, relationships to influenza and RSV, absolute vs. relative risk, which populations we should target most for social distancing, the fecal-oral spread of this novel coronavirus, comparisons to norovirus and rotavirus, and a deep dive into vaccine development and its challenges.


----------



## emdeengee

Many animal shelters are already being affected by the covid-19 situation. Workers are staying away, animals are being surrendered and food supplies are running out. If you can help to care for these animals (cleaning, feeding, walking) or provide food and other donations this would be a good time to do so


It has already been a sad situation in China and South Korea where many pets have died of starvation and thirst because they were forgotten in the crisis when their owners were taken to hospital or died.

It would also be a good idea to check with your neighbours, family and friends to see if you can help them with pets or farm animals.


----------



## Chris in Mich

If you needed another reason to increase testing: Corona virus test finds individuals who have already recovered from the illness - these people are essential for vaccine research.

I apologize if this detail has already been mentioned; but important enough to mention again.


----------



## HDRider

Lisa in WA said:


> Dr. Offitt is kind of a big deal. Always good to hear his thoughts.
> 
> https://zdoggmd.com/paul-offit-covid/
> 
> 
> *As panic descends and aggressive lockdown measures start in the US, are we causing more harm on a population level than good? *
> Regardless of the answer, we need to ask the question. Legendary vaccine scientist and rationalist Dr. Paul Offit and I discuss the current response to the COVID-19 epidemic, relationships to influenza and RSV, absolute vs. relative risk, which populations we should target most for social distancing, the fecal-oral spread of this novel coronavirus, comparisons to norovirus and rotavirus, and a deep dive into vaccine development and its challenges.


I am not going to give that an hour. Is it advocating for developing herd immunity?


----------



## Irish Pixie

Updated information:

https://www.osmosis.org/learn/COVID-19_(Coronavirus_Disease_19)


----------



## emdeengee

Three things that I have been thinking about:

First and most disturbing. Make sure your will is up to date as well as any other legal documents. I hope not to be a casualty of this pandemic but then again it is a possibility and I am sure the thousands who have already died did not think they would be either.

Make sure that you have a line of defense for you children. At least with 3 links. Those who can step in right away to look after them, those who can be there if the first line fails and those who will be there for the long term. If you have family that is of course the best option but there should be others as well - in case the links get broken.

The same line of defense should be in place for your animals - pets and farm. If you are hospitalized or dead then someone needs to be aware and taking care of them. Even if - as in WW2 - many pets ended up being put down due to age, illness and the fact that there was no one to take care of them


----------



## MoonRiver

I'm developing a crush on Dr Birx.


----------



## emdeengee

Should add that these lines of defense should also apply to our elderly parents and those we love who are ill or disabled with other conditions.


----------



## emdeengee

Our airport has cancelled all parking fees which means people taking short flights can leave their cars at the airport so do not have to cab or uber home. This is also to prevent extra people from entering the airport. Wait outside if you do not have to help an arriving or departing passenger.

The airlines that fly here have already reduced their daily flights. I imagine that they will soon be taking passengers on a needs basis as we are a wilderness city and flying in and out for medical and work is very common. The mines work on a two week schedule so the shifts fly in and out a lot. May have to stop this soon as the workers are from all over Canada.


----------



## Irish Pixie

I just found this substantiated information:

"The World Health Organization recommended Tuesday that people suffering COVID-19 symptoms avoid taking ibuprofen, after French officials warned that anti-inflammatory drugs could worsen effects of the virus."

Paracetamol is Tylenol.

From: https://www.sciencealert.com/who-re...hsvyhScYTJF4TGprOZuDfHBb0uGz6Mz7oflRNbwOSJ5bM


----------



## susieneddy

How to make your own mask and face shield,


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> If disinformation is being spread in Iran shouldn't we be concerned that that may be happening *here*?


It's done here every day.
Your being "concerned" changes nothing.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> I remember a couple weeks ago some were *calling this pandemic just a cold*.


That's not true at all.
For the majority, the effects of the virus are similar to a "cold", but no one has called the "pandemic" a cold.



> SRSLADE said: ↑
> If *disinformation* is being spread in Iran shouldn't we be concerned that that may be happening *here*?





SRSLADE said:


> When getting information *we don't know if we're being lied to.*
> We need to trust ourselves and not get caught up in anyone else agenda.


It's really pretty easy to tell.
Some have no credibility, based on past history.
Everyone knows who they are.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Chris in Mich said:


> Corona virus test finds individuals who have already recovered from the illness


They have records of thousands who have recovered.
There are over 83,000 reported so far.
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6


----------



## Chris in Mich

Can it be presumed that 83,000 represents an adequate number to pull data and plasma from? Will all 83k provide consent, or, even meet whatever prerequisites are required? If not 83k, what is the proper sample pool size?


----------



## light rain

emdeengee said:


> Many animal shelters are already being affected by the covid-19 situation. Workers are staying away, animals are being surrendered and food supplies are running out. If you can help to care for these animals (cleaning, feeding, walking) or provide food and other donations this would be a good time to do so
> 
> 
> It has already been a sad situation in China and South Korea where many pets have died of starvation and thirst because they were forgotten in the crisis when their owners were taken to hospital or died.
> 
> It would also be a good idea to check with your neighbours, family and friends to see if you can help them with pets or farm animals.


Thanks for reminding me!


----------



## light rain

susieneddy said:


> How to make your own mask and face shield,


90% percent trumps 0%. Just had to use "that" word 'cause I like card playing...
Learned to count watching my Navy Dad play cards with his Army buddy... Also learned a colorful vocabulary that did not impress my Mom...


----------



## Irish Pixie

"Andrea Crisanti, an infections expert at Imperial College London, who has been involved in the village's efforts to combat the virus told Italy's broadcast media that continuous testing and retesting of the whole population made the difference."

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...halts-all-new-infections-after-trial-11959587


----------



## MoonRiver

Irish Pixie said:


> "Andrea Crisanti, an infections expert at Imperial College London, who has been involved in the village's efforts to combat the virus told Italy's broadcast media that continuous testing and retesting of the whole population made the difference."
> 
> https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...halts-all-new-infections-after-trial-11959587


You have to test everyone because over 80% are asymptomatic (this study was about 90%). I can't see where testing only symptomatic people, as US is doing, is of much benefit. For every person with symptoms who tests positive, they miss at least 8 who are asymptomatic.


----------



## Chris in Mich

Bearfootfarm said:


> 83,000


https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/05...overed-patients-could-help-treat-coronavirus/
Kim said the hope is that a single donor might provide enough IVIG for a single patient. But it’s also possible that IVIG derived from several people would be needed to treat each patient.


----------



## light rain

light rain said:


> Thanks for reminding me!


Just called and left a message. They're closed today. Told them I would walk dogs, feed any animals or clean runs. Didn't go with our county shelter 'cause it is farther away than the one I called.
Reminds of my life about 48 years ago...


emdeengee said:


> My British friend sent this and it really is the attitude they take - they are the originators of the "keep calm and carry on" message.
> View attachment 84892


I had an elderly friend from England by the name of Miss Underwood. She grew up there near a huge amusement park. She worked with the resistence movement in France during WWII. She got her little brother out of England when Germany was bombing it so terribly. But she also told me of sitting, by herself, on a tree stump watching the bombs fall at times.

She came to America with her brother to make a new life and lived to be in her 90's.
A strong woman. Sorry. I don't believe the current generation is cut from the same cloth, either in England or the USA...


----------



## newfieannie

nfld announces jail time for non compliance . 50000 for corporations. that's the way they should be cracking down everywhere. they have 3 so far we have 12


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Chris in Mich said:


> *Can it be presumed* that 83,000 represents an adequate number to pull data and plasma from?


It's not the final number. It's just the current number from data reported.
It will continue to rise.
There's no need to "presume" anything.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Irish Pixie said:


> I just found this *substantiated* information:


From your source:


> The warning by French Health Minister Veran followed a recent study in _The Lancet_ medical journal that *hypothesised* that an enzyme boosted by anti-inflammatory drugs such as ibuprofen *could* facilitate and worsen COVID-19 infections.





> Asked about the study, WHO spokesman Christian Lindmeier told reporters in Geneva the UN health agency's experts were *"looking into this *to give further guidance."





> "*We do not currently believe there is any proven scientific evidence linking over-the-counter use of ibuprofen to the aggravation of COVID-19*," the statement said.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Chris in Mich said:


> Kim said the hope is that a single donor might provide enough IVIG for a single patient. But it’s also possible that IVIG derived from several people would be needed to treat each patient.


I bet 83,000 is more than enough:



> Takeda won’t know until it has taken steps to learn how many antibodies are present in patients who have recovered, and what dose of TAK-888 appears necessary to be effective. *Those measures, Takeda said, could be discovered without large-scale trials*.


----------



## MoonRiver

Great video if you are interested in how different treatments would work against the coronavirus. (You might need to set video back to beginning)

*COVID-19 | Corona Virus: Treatment, Prognosis, Precautions*


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Irish Pixie said:


> *I agree with the expert's* opinion(s) contained in it.


Here's an "expert":

https://thehill.com/homenews/admini...nst-theory-that-ibuprofen-worsens?jwsource=cl

" Dr. Anthony Fauci, one of the faces of the Trump administration's coronavirus response, is pushing back against warnings that an anti-inflammatory drug like ibuprofen could worsen the effects of the infection. 

Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said Wednesday that the suggestion was *a "little bit urban legend"* and that there was *no "solid evidence"* to support the theory after France's health minister urged people to avoid the drug. "


----------



## Danaus29

This post has a lot of really good information and contains some excellent links. Can we please put a lid on the snide comments and keep the thread open for discussion?


----------



## wr

I'm trying hard to keep this one open but I'm not interested in cleaning it up again. I would suggest that you go back and review GC rules and if you have a problem following them, find another thread to post on. 

For those of you speed reporting, don't forget to make sure you're following the rules before you start pointing fingers and it's worth mentioning the High Maintenance User rule hasn't gone anywhere.


----------



## gleepish

Missouri had our first death today and two doctors have tested positive in St. Louis....


----------



## Chris in Mich

Michigan had our first death - man in his fifties with underlying condition. Current confirmed case count at 80.


----------



## Irish Pixie

NY mandated new protocol: "Cuomo said more new aggressive measures were likely and added a new statewide mandate Wednesday: All businesses must have at least 50 percent of their employees working from home, though essential services are exempt."

"The city is growing increasingly desperate to curb the spread of infection. As of Wednesday morning, Cuomo said the five boroughs had more than 1,330 cases -- hundreds more than the update from the mayor the night before. In total, New York state has more than 2,900 cases as of Wednesday, with 21 deaths — 11 of which are in NYC. Both the mayor and governor have said the numbers change by the minute for the worse. Testing capacity is expanding, which means more positive cases by default."

From: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/cor...ace-as-death-toll-hits-double-digits/2332094/


----------



## Irish Pixie

An excellent read.

"One of the country’s top infectious disease officials delivered an urgent message: South Korea needed an effective test immediately to detect the novel coronavirus, then running rampant in China. He promised the companies swift regulatory approval.

Though there were only four known cases in South Korea at that point, “we were very nervous. We believed that it could develop into a pandemic,” one attendee, Lee Sang-won, an infectious diseases expert at the Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, told Reuters.

“We acted like an army,” he said.

A week after the Jan. 27 meeting, South Korea’s CDC approved one company’s diagnostic test. Another company soon followed. By the end of February, South Korea was making headlines around the world for its drive-through screening centers and ability to test thousands of people daily."

"South Korea’s swift action stands in stark contrast to what has transpired in the United States. Seven weeks after the train station meeting, the Koreans have tested well over 290,000 people and identified over 8,000 infections. New cases are falling off: Ninety-three were reported Wednesday, down from a daily peak of 909 two weeks earlier.

The United States, whose first case was detected the same day as South Korea’s, is not even close to meeting demand for testing. About 60,000 tests have been run by public and private labs in a country of 330 million, federal officials said Tuesday."

More here: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-to-test-people-for-coronavirus-idUSKBN2153BW


----------



## po boy

From your article:
How the United States fell so far behind South Korea, according to infectious disease experts, clinicians and state and local officials, is a tale of many contrasts in the two nations’ public health systems: *a streamlined bureaucracy versus a congested one, bold versus cautious leadership, and a sense of urgency versus a reliance on protocol.*

Our bureaucracy is killing us!


----------



## Bearfootfarm

po boy said:


> a streamlined bureaucracy versus a congested one, bold versus cautious leadership, and a sense of urgency versus a reliance on protocol.
> 
> Our bureaucracy is killing us!


They have their ways, we have ours.

They pretty much have one person with total control.

People here wouldn't stand for that.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Hyperbole is not helpful. It leads to flawed thinking. 

Our bureaucracy is not killing us.


----------



## emdeengee

light rain said:


> Just called and left a message. They're closed today. Told them I would walk dogs, feed any animals or clean runs. Didn't go with our county shelter 'cause it is farther away than the one I called.
> Reminds of my life about 48 years ago...
> 
> 
> I had an elderly friend from England by the name of Miss Underwood. She grew up there near a huge amusement park. She worked with the resistence movement in France during WWII. She got her little brother out of England when Germany was bombing it so terribly. But she also told me of sitting, by herself, on a tree stump watching the bombs fall at times.
> 
> She came to America with her brother to make a new life and lived to be in her 90's.
> A strong woman. Sorry. I don't believe the current generation is cut from the same cloth, either in England or the USA...



I have many British friends. Many of them from the Greatest Generation although each year brings great sadness as they die. They all had incredible attitudes towards hardships but then again they endured a lot. But we still have the younger generations.

The current generation is cut from the same cloth - in all countries. They have just been raised differently in a very different social and economic climate. They have not yet been tested so I don't write any of them off. And there are many countries where war, poverty, famine, climate change and political control has already tested the young and they are fierce and caring and will sacrifice for others.

We have many millennial friends, family and co-workers and their kids and grandkids (next generation) friends and there are some who will struggle with life but most have great work and family ethics. When they were young we rolled our eyes and wondered if they would ever grow up but then again my parents did the same to us as did their parents to them.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Our local hospitals are running low on all PPE (personal protective equipment) gloves, regular masks, clothing, face guards, etc. The I95 masks (blocks 95%) are supposed to be required when caring for a person with active Covid-19 are being used longer than protocol allows because they are in such short supply. 

Our daughter's hospital has two confirmed cases in door lock rooms, and many many in isolation that are probable pending test results. One other hospital will not even test and sent home a patient that met requirements from Mr. Pixie's facility, and told them to isolate them and all that had close contact. 

It was announced that all medical personnel that contract Covid-19 (and they will), will be covered under Worker's Compensation and not required to use their sick time.


----------



## MoonRiver

Warn your kids!


> The report, issued Wednesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, found that — as in other countries — the oldest patients had the greatest likelihood of dying and of being hospitalized. *But of the 508 patients known to have been hospitalized, 38 percent were notably younger — between 20 and 54. And nearly half of the 121 patients who were admitted to intensive care units were adults under 65,* the C.D.C. reported.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/health/coronavirus-young-people.html


----------



## MoonRiver

This is what many of us believed would likely happen. Until herd immunity is reached, there is nothing to stop the virus. You might be able to stop it short term, but new cases will pop up and then you get community spread and then you are on to the next wave. 

That's why I asked if possibly the government delayed testing on purpose. To try to get it over with in one painful wave instead of enduring multiple waves. Think what will happen to the stock market and businesses if we believe that after the 1st wave, the worst is over and then a 2nd wave and then a 3rd wave hit. It might be the better policy to try to get to herd immunity by the end of the 1st wave.



> WASHINGTON — A federal government plan to combat the coronavirus warned policymakers last week *that a pandemic “will last 18 months or longer” and could include “multiple waves,” resulting in widespread shortages that would strain consumers and the nation’s health care system*.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/u...pandemic-and-widespread-shortages/ar-BB11ktjA


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

I no longer find searching for conspiracies useful. 

Just my dua kroner.


----------



## Irish Pixie

"Combatting the conspiracy theories and misinformation making the rounds, new research has proved that the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 responsible for the COVID-19 outbreak was not engineered in a lab.

A new study, published in the journal Nature Medicine, has traced back the evolution of SARS-CoV-2 and compared its structure to other coronaviruses to show that it’s the product of natural evolution. The research also sheds some light on the possible origins of the virus too.

“By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes,” said study author Kristian Andersen, PhD, an associate professor of immunology and microbiology at Scripps Research, in a statement."

Google for link (there may be objectionable information in the link)

The link to the actual study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9


----------



## keenataz

Irish Pixie said:


> "Combatting the conspiracy theories and misinformation making the rounds, new research has proved that the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 responsible for the COVID-19 outbreak was not engineered in a lab.
> 
> A new study, published in the journal Nature Medicine, has traced back the evolution of SARS-CoV-2 and compared its structure to other coronaviruses to show that it’s the product of natural evolution. The research also sheds some light on the possible origins of the virus too.
> 
> “By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes,” said study author Kristian Andersen, PhD, an associate professor of immunology and microbiology at Scripps Research, in a statement."
> 
> Google for link (there may be objectionable information in the link)
> 
> The link to the actual study: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9


But Tom Cotten....


----------



## light rain

emdeengee said:


> I have many British friends. Many of them from the Greatest Generation although each year brings great sadness as they die. They all had incredible attitudes towards hardships but then again they endured a lot. But we still have the younger generations.
> 
> The current generation is cut from the same cloth - in all countries. They have just been raised differently in a very different social and economic climate. They have not yet been tested so I don't write any of them off. And there are many countries where war, poverty, famine, climate change and political control has already tested the young and they are fierce and caring and will sacrifice for others.
> 
> We have many millennial friends, family and co-workers and their kids and grandkids (next generation) friends and there are some who will struggle with life but most have great work and family ethics. When they were young we rolled our eyes and wondered if they would ever grow up but then again my parents did the same to us as did their parents to them.



I hope you're right in your assessment...


----------



## emdeengee

Me too. But I think that there are way more good people than bad and each terrible time in our history has brought out the best in people. 

And talking with all my older British friends - they were quite a bunch of rowdy idiots when they were young as well and their parents had a lot of trouble with them. What else is new? For so many though teenage life was cut brutally short by the war as at age 18 many boys and girls were in the military, home guard, fire and ambulance brigades, factories and working on farms far away from home. And they watched friends and family die or be severely injured.

I also have family and many friends who were members of the Axis countries or their parents were. They suffered immensely as well but survived. 

The Russians are the ultimate example of resilience and sacrifice. WW2 would not have been won without them.


----------



## emdeengee

The main grocery chains and warehouses in Canada have stated that there is not a shortage of supplies at this time. 

The reason there are empty shelve is that most stores have ordering systems based on how much they sell so how much they will need over a specific period of time. When the extra buying started the stores only had the normal supplies on hand so of course they sold out as people were buying so much more. When you normally bought one bag of coffee you were suddenly buying three. 

So once the shipments (and of course the vitally important trucking and rail shipments and port offloading of ships) catches up then there should be stocked shelves again. And since so many have already stocked up a lot the speed of emptying will not be as great.


----------



## emdeengee

One of the big problems that all countries have been facing is that there are not enough ventilators. Ontario has 2000 ICU beds but only 1700 ventilators. One just has to ask why each ICU bed is not equipped with a ventilator? When I was in ICU everyone was on a ventilator at some point.

But ingenuity may save the day. A doctor at a very small hospital in Smith Falls, Ontario, has figured out a way to combine one ventilator to serve two patients. He jigged it up himself and so far it works.


----------



## emdeengee

Distilleries in Canada have switched from making booze to making hand sanitizers. This may lead to a shortage of booze but then again the liquor store are cutting hours now and may shut entirely. 

This could be quite a serious problem with the health and safety of those addicted to alcohol so we will all have to be extra vigilant with our family and friends.


----------



## emdeengee

In Canada retired nurses, technicians, pharmacists and doctors have been asked to come back to work or at least prepare to come back to work if needed. This clearly says to me that the situation will probably last a lot longer than two weeks or a month. 

The same request has been made for police, fire, paramedics, pilots and other essential services – both government and private. Exhaustion for first line personnel will be a big problem without this back-up.


----------



## emdeengee

The closure of the northern border was pretty broad in its scope and the farmers right away protested. So as of today migrant workers are exempt and can come into Canada - must be screened of course - but without them the farmers will not be able to get their crops in on time and that would be a big disaster just a few months down the road. Most of these workers return every year so they are not strangers to the farmers or the government.


The Canadian government and medical insurance companies have warned Snowbirds and tourists to come home as fast as possible for their own safety. The government because at some point they may not be able to cross the border at all. 

Some of the insurance companies have told their clients that they will only cover them for the next 10 days so if they get sick in the US they will incur huge bills. Not sure how they can just change their coverage but apparently they can and they are protecting their bottom line of course.


----------



## emdeengee

I had to go to the hospital yesterday for my chemo treatment. The day before I was told that we would be screened before we would be allowed to enter – fine with me! When we arrived there was a screening station blocking the entry hallway and two nurses and a security person. We were told that just an hour ago the hospital had been officially closed to all visitors on order of the Territorial Chief Medical Officer – fine with me. We had wondered why the parking lot was only half full and as we entered we saw no one in the halls.

As we were waiting to be screened I was wondering why the hospital had to have Shrek on guard at the screening station. Soon found out. Of the three people ahead of us one of them was quite snarky with the nurses about temperature taking and answering their simple questions. Are you a patient? Are you a caregiver? Do you have a cough? Trouble breathing? Been travelling out of the country? In contact with anyone else who has been out of the country or feeling unwell?

Meanwhile Shrek the guard was dealing with two visitors who were livid that they had travelled all this way (he asked them and the journey was about 20 minutes from out of town) and demanded to be allowed to visit. He had to physically block one from heading towards the elevators. She left in a real huff. The news of the closure was just going out so I imagine the rest of the morning was going to be a whole lot of fun for him.

When asked my husband said I was the patient and he was the caregiver/slave. Ha. Ha. He was allowed to escort me to the Chemo room but not enter and had to sit in a designated area. The Chemo chairs had been spaced so that they were 6 feet apart and usually the room is full of patients but only 3 of us as we are also being spaced out. 

I sure hope that our nurses, technicians and doctors are being very careful. All of the hospital services are still functioning at full capacity but only for patients. So far they look nice and cheerful as they always do but so far we have no cases and yet we are doing as much as possible to lessen their load.


----------



## MoonRiver

I think we are within weeks of things turning positive, in a big way. 


> FDA commissioner Stephen Hahn said that under the president’s direction he would move quickly for a chloroquine clinical trial to test its ability to treat the coronavirus.
> 
> In the meantime, doctors can ask for experimental drugs to use to treat their patients as part of a “compassionate use” program.





> The president also mentioned the anti-viral drug Remdesivir produced by Gilead as a possible treatment drug.


https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...tment-coronavirus-showing-tremendous-results/

Drug treatment is being fast tracked. Some can be given early and prevent the virus from becoming critical. With self testing and drug therapy, this thing could be under control very quickly.


----------



## Irish Pixie

I posted this last week, I think. 



Irish Pixie said:


> No reliable treatment, either. The anti-viral medications, for the most part, aren't working. "Remdesivir is an investigational nucleotide analog with broad-spectrum antiviral activity – it is not approved anywhere globally for any use." https://www.*gilead.com*/purpose/advancing-global-health/covid-19


----------



## MoonRiver

This is why I questioned the governor closing all schools in the state for 2 weeks.

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1556211/


----------



## Irish Pixie

emdeengee said:


> In Canada retired nurses, technicians, pharmacists and doctors have been asked to come back to work or at least prepare to come back to work if needed. This clearly says to me that the situation will probably last a lot longer than two weeks or a month.
> 
> The same request has been made for police, fire, paramedics, pilots and other essential services – both government and private. Exhaustion for first line personnel will be a big problem without this back-up.


Exactly The first wave of infections in any area will take out many of the medical personnel, they'll need reinforcements while they are quarantined and recovering.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I no longer find searching for conspiracies useful.


It never was.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

emdeengee said:


> Distilleries in Canada have switched from making booze to making hand sanitizers.


It's still just alcohol.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

emdeengee said:


> This could be quite a serious problem with the health and safety of those *addicted to alcohol *so we will all have to be extra vigilant with our family and friends.


It's a good time to quit.


----------



## Danaus29

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's a good time to quit.


That's what Mom told her youngest child, not me btw.


----------



## painterswife

No 


Bearfootfarm said:


> It's still just alcohol.


It is not. They have to up the proof and then add other ingredients.


----------



## wr

emdeengee said:


> So as of today migrant workers are exempt and can come into Canada - must be screened of course - but without them the farmers will not be able to get their crops in on time and that would be a big disaster just a few months down the road. Most of these workers return every year so they are not strangers to the farmers or the government.


My area uses quite a few temporary foreign workers and I heard the screams from the usual local farmers as soon as there was talk of closing the border. They're also the ones that play the system well. They know you have to be unable to fill a position locally before they can bring in foreign workers and the local sod farm posts ads for months, with the wrong email address. 

We don't need to bring foreign workers into Canada to step in front of the thousands of Canadians already put out of work and as far as I'm concerned, farmers want community support in good times, they should consider supporting their unemployed community now.


----------



## MoonRiver

My latest prediction. This will be over by end of summer. We know too much at this point to let a virus beat us. Somebody in US, Israel, S Korea, China, or Japan will come up with a solution.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

painterswife said:


> It is not. *They have to up the proof* and then add other ingredients.


They typically lower the proof to make it drinkable.
No other ingredients are *produced* at the distilleries.
They only produce the alcohol. 

*Distilleries are making hand sanitizer with their in-house ...*
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/16/us/distilleries-hand-sanitizer-coronavirus-trnd/index.html
Mar 16, 2020 · Distilleries are making hand sanitizer *with their in-house alcohol* and giving it out for free to combat coronavirus 

https://thewhiskeywash.com/whiskey-styles/bourbon/proofing-watering-whiskey-right-way/



> Proofing is an important step in distillation. *Most whiskies are proofed, or diluted*, twice: once before they enter the barrel, and again after the barrels are emptied. By law, American whiskey must enter the barrel at or below 125 proof, but it can be distilled to 160 proof. The first proofing ensures that the young whiskey is below the legal threshold for barrel entry strength.
> 
> The second proofing takes place before bottling. When whiskey is nearing maturity, distillers make the decision whether to proof the whiskey down to a lower strength – and, if they do decide to proof, they must choose a water source and a proofing strategy.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> My latest prediction. This will be over by end of summer.


That would be typical of most Coronaviruses.
They tend to be seasonal for various reasons.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> That would be typical of most Coronaviruses.
> They tend to be seasonal for various reasons.


I'm saying we will beat it, not that summer heat and humidity will.


----------



## gleepish

This is local for me... this is terrifying... so much for available testing

https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles...tent=7a0f56730545bce6b7cb69fd7cb48d82c207a49b


----------



## Lisa in WA

Bearfootfarm said:


> They typically lower the proof to make it drinkable.
> No other ingredients are *produced* at the distilleries.
> They only produce the alcohol.
> 
> *Distilleries are making hand sanitizer with their in-house ...*
> https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/16/us/distilleries-hand-sanitizer-coronavirus-trnd/index.html
> Mar 16, 2020 · Distilleries are making hand sanitizer *with their in-house alcohol* and giving it out for free to combat coronavirus
> 
> https://thewhiskeywash.com/whiskey-styles/bourbon/proofing-watering-whiskey-right-way/




Our local distiller, Dry Fly is making hand sanitizer spray called Spokanitizer. Cute name. 

And as you said...cutting it from 95 percent alcohol to 70%

https://www.krem.com/article/news/h...pray/293-8765a5c4-ac9b-4718-a2b1-1f3e43872cb4


----------



## robin416

gleepish said:


> This is local for me... this is terrifying... so much for available testing
> 
> https://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/health-med-fit/coronavirus/one-st-louis-doctor-s-testing-ordeal-i-am-so/article_afdab0dd-de1e-54eb-b7c8-a573a311e894.html#utm_source=stltoday.com&utm_campaign=/newsletter-templates/breaking&utm_medium=PostUp&utm_content=7a0f56730545bce6b7cb69fd7cb48d82c207a49b


Maybe this will stop all those that keep saying there are plenty of tests out there. I know they are not here.


----------



## po boy

More and more tests are coming available. 
There is close to 8 billion people on earth and total testing is just a little over one million. That's only .0128%.
People are saying you have to test everyone and retest. That just isn't possible.

It's unfortunate that these people died, but a test wouldn't save them. The fact that some died a very short time after returning to the states is strange.


----------



## keenataz

Irish Pixie said:


> I posted this last week, I think.


Be great if it did but...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...laria-drug-as-potential-coronavirus-treatment
Even those in Trump’s inner circle have cautioned against equating early research on drugs with proof that they work.

Deborah Birx, a member of the president’s coronavirus task force, said during Wednesday’s White House briefing that Trump had asked for a briefing on potential treatments for the virus. Birx said that even evidence a drug works in animals doesn’t mean it will work in people.


----------



## gleepish

po boy said:


> More and more tests are coming available.
> There is close to 8 billion people on earth and total testing is just a little over one million. That's only .0128%.
> People are saying you have to test everyone and retest. That just isn't possible.
> 
> It's unfortunate that these people died, but a test wouldn't save them. The fact that some died a very short time after returning to the states is strange.


Might save others from spreading it though.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I'm saying we will beat it, not that summer heat and humidity will.


It's not one thing alone that will make a difference.
It's been proven heat and humidity help.
It's prove *true* isolation works too, but most people still don't even take that advice.


----------



## Danaus29

gleepish said:


> This is local for me... this is terrifying... so much for available testing


At least they knew who to call about the testing. That's better than doctors here.

Testing would not have saved lives. It's just the knowing that eases the mind, one way or another. But even if they don't have Covid-19 they should be self isolating. Unfortunately, self isolation when you are sick is not an American practice, even among health professionals.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

robin416 said:


> Maybe this will stop all those that keep saying there are plenty of tests out there. I know they are not here.


More are being tested every day.
Most of them showing positive results are being told to go home and take normal precautions.
Anyone who thinks they need a test can do that on their own.


----------



## Danaus29

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's not one thing alone that will make a difference.
> It's been proven heat and humidity help.


https://www.clickorlando.com/weathe...read-of-coronavirus-unclear-but-probably-not/
Not yet but they are still running tests to see if warm weather helps.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Danaus29 said:


> Not yet but they are still running tests to see if warm weather helps.


Odds are good it will help, just as it does with most similar viruses.


----------



## po boy

gleepish said:


> Might save others from spreading it though.


I agree.


----------



## Danaus29

Bearfootfarm said:


> Odds are good it will help, just as it does with most similar viruses.


We all hope warmer weather helps prevent the further spread. But meanwhile, summer is months away for most of the US. 

I just want a string of a few dry days. But I don't think I brought any germs home yesterday. The rain pretty much soaked everything, including my purse.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Danaus29 said:


> But meanwhile, summer is months away for most of the US.


It's 81° here today.


----------



## Danaus29

57*F here now, dark and cloudy, raining with flood watches until sometime Friday.


----------



## SLADE

Lets hope it doesn't get to 167f this summer. That is the temp to kill virus. CDC if you would like to look it up.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> Lets hope it doesn't get to 167f this summer. That is the temp to kill virus. CDC if you would like to look it up.


*Personal bubble concept heats up to KILL the coronavirus*
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8065969/Personal-bubble-concept-heats...
Mar 02, 2020 · 'The coronavirus will be killed by temperatures of 56 degrees Celsius,' (*133 degrees Fahrenheit)*


----------



## SLADE

I believe the CDC.


----------



## Lisa in WA

SRSLADE said:


> Lets hope it doesn't get to 167f this summer. That is the temp to kill virus. CDC if you would like to look it up.


I can’t find that. Do you have a link?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> I believe the CDC.


I believe evidence presented over unsubstantiated claims.

https://cntechpost.com/2020/01/28/does-the-sun-kill-the-new-coronavirus-expert-explains/


> 3. How much and how long does the high temperature have a killing effect on the virus? High-temperature environment disinfection? Does turning on air conditioning and heating work?
> 
> The virus is sensitive to heat and can effectively inactivate the virus when it reaches a temperature of *56 °* C for 30 minutes


That's about 133° F


----------



## MoonRiver

Danaus29 said:


> We all hope warmer weather helps prevent the further spread. But meanwhile, summer is months away for most of the US.
> 
> I just want a string of a few dry days. But I don't think I brought any germs home yesterday. The rain pretty much soaked everything, including my purse.


I think it's humidity more than temperature. In higher humidity, the droplets fall to the ground quicker.


----------



## SLADE

*Cleaning to Prevent the Flu - Centers for Disease Control*
www.cdc.gov › flu › images › contamination_cleaning_english_508
PDF
What kills flu viruses? Flu viruses are killed by heat above 167° F [75° C]. Common household cleaning products can also kill the ...


----------



## barnbilder

When talking about heat killing pathogens, it is important to be mindful of time duration. 133 degrees for thirty minutes could be the same as 167 instantly. Could also mean 150 for 20 minutes. Get the idea? 

By the same token, you might see a shorter lifespan on surfaces at normal summer temperatures. Here it won't be long until steering wheels will self disinfect regularly.

There are several reasons we have less problems with colds and flus in the summer. Increased temperatures sanitizing our vehicles and park benches is one reason. Another is we are not cooped up breathing the same air that other people are hacking in, gathered indoors where it is warm. Another is that we are not wearing bulky outer clothing. When you wear a coat, it is larger than your body, and it brushes up against things, like door handles that other people have touched with fingers that were just mining for boogers. We typically don't launder a coat after each wear, the same we do underwear, but maybe when you think about it, we should. No, we hang it on a rack when we go inside, and there it is brushing against other coats that have been through other doors. But probably the main reason we don't get colds as bad in summer, we are in better health. Summer makes us more active, we exercise, get vitamin D, If you get out and putter around in the yard a little, you improve your circulation, more likely to sleep better, and all sorts of things.


----------



## SLADE

As a hypothesis it's as good as any.


----------



## lmrose

Here near Yarmouth Nova Scotia we don't have any reported cases yet of Corona virus but there are at least six near Halifax 180 miles from here. To try to stop the spreading of the virus all eating places can only serve take-out. No customers are allowed in dining areas. Many stores ae closed now as well as the library and many offices are closed and those who are able are asked to work from home. All sports and public events are cancelled all over the province and country. Dentist, are closed except for emergencies. My husband needed a chiropractor and I found only one still open. Bill and one other were the only patients. The staff were busy cleaning and disinfecting everything. All schools are on extended March break and Universities are closed. Repeatedly all day long on the radio people are being told to stay home. Our Prime Minister talks daily at noon on the radio. He announced aid to almost every sector of our society by way of finances to the tune of 80 Billion dollars. How all that will be distributed I am not sure. Moreover I didn't know the Canadian government had 80 billion dollars to give away. So it goes. When this world pandemic ends it will take years for the economy to recover if ever. It could be a lot worse like what happened in Italy, China and other countries. Here Bill and I are self isolating as I am subject to lung infections since a year old. We are home most of the time anyway so being alone doesn't bother us. I would hate to be out and about and catch the virus and unknowingly pass it to others. So we will stay home alone. I hope everyone can stay safe till this misery finishes running its course. Stay home, wash your hands with soap and water and keep hands out of your face. Also if out and about stay away from other people by 6 feet if you can. That is what we are being told.


----------



## lmrose

Here near Yarmouth Nova Scotia we don't have any reported cases yet of Corona virus but there are at least six near Halifax 180 miles from here. To try to stop the spreading of the virus all eating places can only serve take-out. No customers are allowed in dining areas. Many stores ae closed now as well as the library and many offices are closed and those who are able are asked to work from home. All sports and public events are cancelled all over the province and country. Dentist, are closed except for emergencies. My husband needed a chiropractor and I found only one still open. Bill and one other were the only patients. The staff were busy cleaning and disinfecting everything. All schools are on extended March break and Universities are closed. Repeatedly all day long on the radio people are being told to stay home. Our Prime Minister talks daily at noon on the radio. He announced aid to almost every sector of our society by way of finances to the tune of 80 Billion dollars. How all that will be distributed I am not sure. Moreover I didn't know the Canadian government had 80 billion dollars to give away. So it goes. When this world pandemic ends it will take years for the economy to recover if ever. It could be a lot worse like what happened in Italy, China and other countries. Here Bill and I are self isolating as I am subject to lung infections since a year old. We are home most of the time anyway so being alone doesn't bother us. I would hate to be out and about and catch the virus and unknowingly pass it to others. So we will stay home alone. I hope everyone can stay safe till this misery finishes running its course. Stay home, wash your hands with soap and water and keep hands out of your face. Also if out and about stay away from other people by 6 feet if you can. That is what we are being told.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> *Cleaning to Prevent the Flu - Centers for Disease Control*
> www.cdc.gov › flu › images › contamination_cleaning_english_508
> PDF
> What kills flu viruses? *Flu* *viruses* are killed by heat above 167° F [75° C]. Common household cleaning products can also kill the ...


The *Coronavirus* isn't "flu".


----------



## Irish Pixie

For the SARS *coronavirus*, yes, it's an older WHO article. I'll find more current information later. BTW, 56C is 132.8F

"Only minimal reduction in virus concentration after 21 days at 4°C and -80°C.

Reduction in virus concentration by one log only at stable room temperature for 2 days. This would indicate that the virus is more stable than the known human coronaviruses under these conditions.

Heat at 56°C kills the SARS coronavirus at around 10000 units per 15 min (quick reduction)."

https://www.who.int/csr/sars/survival_2003_05_04/en/


----------



## emdeengee

wr said:


> My area uses quite a few temporary foreign workers and I heard the screams from the usual local farmers as soon as there was talk of closing the border. They're also the ones that play the system well. They know you have to be unable to fill a position locally before they can bring in foreign workers and the local sod farm posts ads for months, with the wrong email address.
> 
> We don't need to bring foreign workers into Canada to step in front of the thousands of Canadians already put out of work and as far as I'm concerned, farmers want community support in good times, they should consider supporting their unemployed community now.



This is always the argument when migrant workers are discussed. The reality is that Canadians do not want to these jobs. We have farming/orchard/vineyard friends in Sask and Man and the Okanagan Valley and they never get inquiries let alone applications for farm work from Canadians. 

Right now there will be thousands more unemployed but there are always unemployed or underemployed and this is not the work they are looking for. Very hard, not well paid, no benefits or security and very poor living conditions not to mention migration - having to move from place to place. 

It will be interesting to see the statistics over the next few months to see just how many unemployed Canadians will be doing farm work to replace the migrants. Of course they will be without experience which will slow things down as they progress through a learning curve while migrants have the job skills needed - some working for decades in Canada.


----------



## emdeengee

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's a good time to quit.


I am sure that many social drinkers will quit because of shortages and the cost but it serves no purpose to be glib when discussing addicts. This will be a very difficult and dangerous time for them physically and anyone who gets in the way of their source - could be an increase in burglaries of homes in search of the liquor cabinet.

During prohibition and the depression people did not stop drinking. A lot of bad booze may be on the market soon. And even when there was no money to feed your kids people did buy booze during the depression. Because they were addicted or just selfish.

Good time to quit smoking and recreational drugs as well but also not something that will be easy. Gambling should be easier as they will shut the casinos and race courses.


----------



## newfieannie

and not only that but some of the migrant workers have been working for the same farmers for 20 years and they wont have time to train more before the season starts. many canadians wont do that work anyway. ~Georgia


----------



## newfieannie

i was listening to our talk show this morning and this lady came on and talked about them giving quinine to a bunch of people in france that were cured of the virus. wasn't that what was used a lot in the war? anyone else hear about it. i didn't before this. seems too simple. malaria drug is another one i heard about that was working. ~Georgia


----------



## robin416

Quinine is a drug used to treat malaria.


----------



## emdeengee

The US is eliminating many testing safety procedures in order to proceed with human trials of these malaria drugs. The reasoning is that even if it does nothing for covid-19 it will not harm the test subjects as these malaria drugs have been used for decades. However the result of these drugs in combination with the virus is unknown. Anyone who is volunteering to be a test subject is extraordinarily brave and we can only hope the result is good.


----------



## MoonRiver

newfieannie said:


> i was listening to our talk show this morning and this lady came on and talked about them giving quinine to a bunch of people in france that were cured of the virus. wasn't that what was used a lot in the war? anyone else hear about it. i didn't before this. seems too simple. malaria drug is another one i heard about that was working. ~Georgia


I believe what they gave is Chloroquine, a derivative of quinine.


----------



## wr

emdeengee said:


> This is always the argument when migrant workers are discussed. The reality is that Canadians do not want to these jobs. We have farming/orchard/vineyard friends in Sask and Man and the Okanagan Valley and they never get inquiries let alone applications for farm work from Canadians.
> 
> Right now there will be thousands more unemployed but there are always unemployed or underemployed and this is not the work they are looking for. Very hard, not well paid, no benefits or security and very poor living conditions not to mention migration - having to move from place to place.
> 
> It will be interesting to see the statistics over the next few months to see just how many unemployed Canadians will be doing farm work to replace the migrants. Of course they will be without experience which will slow things down as they progress through a learning curve while migrants have the job skills needed - some working for decades in Canada.


I'm farm raised and know exactly what it takes to operate farm equipment and I also know of three local farms who recently laid their local winter help to make way for temporary foreign workers. Those 20 people are mighty unhappy about applying for EI knowing that someone outside will take the jobs they were capably working. 

I took a bit of government help through the BSE crisis and others received a great deal, grain farmers have taken a lot of help in the last couple years. If we were prepared to accept help from fellow Canadians via their tax dollars, we should also be prepared to return the favour when they need us as well.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

This is going to be a process of learning (and unlearning.) 

The old plans or traditions may change today, tomorrow, next month.

Be observant. Not every change is bad.

Peace to all of you.


----------



## Irish Pixie

emdeengee said:


> The US is eliminating many testing safety procedures in order to proceed with human trials of these malaria drugs. The reasoning is that even if it does nothing for covid-19 it will not harm the test subjects as these malaria drugs have been used for decades. However the result of these drugs in combination with the virus is unknown. Anyone who is volunteering to be a test subject is extraordinarily brave and we can only hope the result is good.


And they don't come without side effects. I was on Plaquenil (Hydroxychloroquine) for lupus for many years, and developed permanent vision problems (light flashes and I have a problem driving at night) and had to stop taking it. Although it may be fine short term.

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-6986/plaquenil-oral/details


----------



## mreynolds

emdeengee said:


> I am sure that many social drinkers will quit because of shortages and the cost but it serves no purpose to be glib when discussing addicts. This will be a very difficult and dangerous time for them physically and anyone who gets in the way of their source - could be an increase in burglaries of homes in search of the liquor cabinet.
> 
> During prohibition and the depression people did not stop drinking. A lot of bad booze may be on the market soon. And even when there was no money to feed your kids people did buy booze during the depression. Because they were addicted or just selfish.
> 
> Good time to quit smoking and recreational drugs as well but also not something that will be easy. Gambling should be easier as they will shut the casinos and race courses.


I hear Las Vegas is betting on the weather forecast now.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Online only.


----------



## MoonRiver

Another possible drug to treat coronavirus.



> Zhang Xinmin, an official at China’s science and technology ministry, said favipiravir, developed by a subsidiary of Fujifilm, had produced encouraging outcomes in clinical trials in Wuhan and Shenzhen involving 340 patients.
> 
> “It has a high degree of safety and is clearly effective in treatment,” Zhang told reporters on Tuesday.
> 
> Patients who were given the medicine in Shenzhen turned negative for the virus after a median of four days after becoming positive, compared with a median of 11 days for those who were not treated with the drug, public broadcaster NHK said.
> 
> In addition, X-rays confirmed improvements in lung condition in about 91% of the patients who were treated with favipiravir, compared to 62% or those without the drug.


the guardian


----------



## light rain

SRSLADE said:


> *Cleaning to Prevent the Flu - Centers for Disease Control*
> www.cdc.gov › flu › images › contamination_cleaning_english_508
> PDF
> What kills flu viruses? Flu viruses are killed by heat above 167° F [75° C]. Common household cleaning products can also kill the ...


I read the virus only survives 48 minutes on a copper surface. What do you guys think of this?
I plan to have us eat more mung beans, ****aki mushrooms and tart cherry juice... We like all those foodstuffs anyway!


----------



## emdeengee

Some other virus news:

Air Canada will be or has been laying off 5100 employees as they are reducing flights by 80%. There are only 4 airports now accepting overseas flights.

Ship yards and graving docks are also laying off staff (1100 at one) which will be bad for ship repairs as they always have a lot of cargo ships in for repairs and maintenance.


It may be advisable – but not proven – to take your outdoor shoes off outside and leave them out for a few hours to kill any virus that may be attached. Same for outdoor jackets if you have been leaning against any walls or put them on chairs or the floor. Same for purses.


If you use your own shopping bags or plastic bins load them yourself to avoid touching contact – for the staff as much as for yourself. Also a good time to wash these items a lot.


Neighbours looking out for neighbours. They are giving their neighbours red and green cards to put in the window. Green meaning that all is okay. Red if you need help. So clever and easy. It may also be a good idea to put your phone number on the card as people may want to find out what is going on first. Also important to find a location for a key if you are not able to get to the door.


Apparently scarves can be used as a face mask if nothing else is available and are being used in Europe. I would stick a sanitary or bladder control pad inside and breathe through this extra layer. I tried it this morning and it worked. 


In Italy the virus has targeted men more than women. And although the aged and immune compromised have been decimated 39% of those infected in Europe are in the 34 to 50 age group. No reason to think it will be any different elsewhere. There is also a question of whether or not this virus will hit other races harder than Asians. This may explain the huge infection rate in Europe but it is all just part of the research in search for a treatment and cure. And as has been shown China was well prepared for a pandemic – not of course to stop it completely which is impossible but to provide treatment and slow the curve.


So far the world death toll for covid-19 is over 10,000. And increasing daily. Except in China. There is a projection of 1.1 million dead in the US if not brought under control by the current measures – just as has happened in Italy where they have exceeded the number of dead in China – over 3700.

We watched the news this morning about the military convoy in Italy. It took place at night and had about 20 huge military trucks leaving Milan. They were transporting the bodies of covid-19 victims to the funeral homes and crematoriums in smaller towns as those in Milan are overwhelmed. Rather like during the Black Plague when the cry of "bring out your dead" was heard each night as the bodies were collected on carts. It was extremely shocking and sad to actually see what this virus has done. 

Everyone needs to take this very seriously. It seems that they are not.


----------



## robin416

Except the malaria drugs do have some serious side effects for those older with chronic health conditions. Because I was busy doing something I didn't hear all of what was said about their use last night.


----------



## Danaus29

Remember the post 9-11 bra masks? I'm sure they would work but I would rather stay home than go out with a bra cup on my face. 
https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/5...ra-but-they-wont-protect-against-coronavirus/


----------



## Bearfootfarm

emdeengee said:


> During prohibition and the depression people did not stop drinking.


People are well known for doing stupid things.
Drunks are often quite good at making excuses.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

light rain said:


> I read the virus only survives 48 minutes on a copper surface.


Copper is toxic to many things so that sounds reasonable.


----------



## SLADE

Some people gamble. It's an addiction. Today it has gone mainstream.
We call it stock market and when we lose it's not our fault.


----------



## newfieannie

i heard some talk about how the banks can confiscate our bank accounts times like these. anyone know if that's true and what to do. take it all out before they do and put it in a sock? anyone else worrying ~ Georgia


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

There are rich gamblers and poor gamblers.


----------



## doozie

A local hospital/med center is asking the public to make face masks for them, they provide the elastic and a place to pick up and drop off.
I googled and found they aren't the only ones.

https://www.cleveland19.com/2020/03/20/indiana-hospital-is-asking-public-sew-face-masks/

https://q13fox.com/2020/03/20/local...tists-urged-to-donate-amid-critical-shortage/


----------



## SLADE

newfieannie said:


> i heard some talk about how the banks can confiscate our bank accounts times like these. anyone know if that's true and what to do. take it all out before they do and put it in a sock? anyone else worrying ~ Georgia


In the states it's part of the bail in bill.


----------



## SLADE

Alice In TX/MO said:


> There are rich gamblers and poor gamblers.


Are there any half fast gamblers?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

emdeengee said:


> just as has happened in Italy


There are lots of old people in Italy.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Yup. Day traders.


----------



## Irish Pixie

This was 7 hours ago. "The number of deaths now stands at *3,405*, which is more than in China where the virus originated last year."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51964307


----------



## emdeengee

Lots of old people in Italy? Really? Also lots of young and middle aged.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

emdeengee said:


> *Lots of old people in Italy?* Really? Also lots of young and middle aged.


That's correct.
Lots of old people.
Really.


----------



## Ann-NWIowa

Information out of China is not reliable so we have no way of knowing how things actually went/how many died/etc.

EMT's without masks in a small southern Iowa town put out request for masks from workers that use them in their trades. Then someone posted saying they would sew masks for them. Pattern at turbanproject.com/patterns. I've seen posts from all over the world showing how to make masks. Best I watched was from Japan in Japanese, but watching provided good enough instructions I feel confident I could make the mask. Since I'm self-quarantined I don't need a mask.


----------



## SLADE

*Search Results*
*Featured snippet from the web*
In the *United States*, the *population age 65* and *over* numbered 49.2 million in 2016 (the most recent year for which data are available). They represented 15.2% of the *population*, about one in every seven Americans.

*A Profile of Older Americans: 2017 - Administration for ...*


----------



## emdeengee

newfieannie said:


> i heard some talk about how the banks can confiscate our bank accounts times like these. anyone know if that's true and what to do. take it all out before they do and put it in a sock? anyone else worrying ~ Georgia



Banks cannot seize your accounts. In fact under the CDIC - Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation - your deposits to banks are protected.

In Canada only debts like federal student loans and unpaid income taxes can be garnished out of your accounts or wages without a court order. They can take it out of existing money in your bank accounts and/or out of your paychecks (i.e. wage garnishment).

Debt collectors or child support claims cannot touch your accounts or garnish wages unless they sue you and win or get a court judgement is made and they are given a court order of garnishment.

What the Canadian government may decide to do under something like the war measures act may be something new. However even during WW2 bank accounts were not seized.


----------



## emdeengee

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's correct.
> Lots of old people.
> Really.


yawn.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

emdeengee said:


> yawn.


I'm sorry facts bore you, but you asked.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

This is from my son’s post on FB. 

He is career military, currently in the reserves. 

“There is a lot of false information out there regarding activation of the Military, National Guard, etc. 
My reserve unit supports the Command Element of USNORTHCOM, the command that would run any/all Homeland Operations...like our relief efforts following Hurricane Harvey. 

-We aren't mobilizing. 
-Martial Law isn't happening. 
-The National Guard units that are mobilizing are medical officers and experts to plan and augment hospitals only. 
-There is no widespread crime that would necessitate such an order. 
-The impact of the virus has not been statistically significant. There aren't a large number of people sick. Our hospitals aren't stressed with patients. 

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.”


----------



## Irish Pixie

emdeengee said:


> yawn.


I know. WTH is the matter with people?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Irish Pixie said:


> I know. WTH is the matter with people?


That's been answered countless times.
The answer is still the same.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's been answered countless times.


And in vastly different ways.


----------



## light rain

Bearfootfarm said:


> Copper is toxic to many things so that sounds reasonable.


True. I believe we still need small amts. in our diet...


----------



## newfieannie

Thanks Em! my son said i worry needlessly


----------



## MoonRiver

Can you get covid-19 more than once? I think the answer is no, at least during the same season.

I realize there have been a couple of reports that appear someone might have had it twice, but they weren't definitive. One possibility is someone could get 1 strain of the virus, recover, and then get a different strain. Another possibility is the tests just aren't accurate enough. And another possibility is we don't know exactly how the virus works. It might be that the strength of the virus in the body might decrease leading to a negative test and then strengthen again leading to a positive test.


----------



## oregon woodsmok

MoonRiver said:


> I believe what they gave is Chloroquine, a derivative of quinine.


I actually sat down and did the research. I was wondering if drinking tonic water would help prevent catching the disease, but the answer is no, it won't.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Another possibility is the tests just aren't accurate enough.


That's been the FDA's concern with the foreign tests all along.


----------



## SLADE

*F.D.A. Approves New Coronavirus Test Under 'Emergency ...*
www.nationalreview.com › news › f-d-a-approves-new-coronavirus-t...
Mar 13, 2020 - The Food and Drug Administration on Friday approved the use of a Wuhan coronavirus diagnostic that will be able to test patients faster than ...


----------



## mreynolds

SRSLADE said:


> *F.D.A. Approves New Coronavirus Test Under 'Emergency ...*
> www.nationalreview.com › news › f-d-a-approves-new-coronavirus-t...
> Mar 13, 2020 - The Food and Drug Administration on Friday approved the use of a Wuhan coronavirus diagnostic that will be able to test patients faster than ...


How racist to name a test kit after a City in Asia.


----------



## SLADE

Apparently the FDA was concerned we didn't enough foreign test kits.


----------



## geo in mi

One facility using surgical drapes to fit over the N95 mask. Those can be washed and reused, while the 95 can get extended use. Not ideal, but better than bare-faced.....

geo


----------



## mreynolds

SRSLADE said:


> *F.D.A. Approves New Coronavirus Test Under 'Emergency ...*
> www.nationalreview.com › news › f-d-a-approves-new-coronavirus-t...
> Mar 13, 2020 - The Food and Drug Administration on Friday approved the use of a Wuhan coronavirus diagnostic that will be able to test patients faster than ...


I hate to say this but your journalist is a flat out lying. 

Only 5k test to date on the US?

Is that just the celebrities and the people in my city? No one else has been tested? 

I say this because I am at this moment (well not right this moment) building the third testing site in my county. It's an indoor one. Complete with negative air exchange. If just every county has done half of what we have I can guarantee it is more than 5000 to date. 

People like your journalist is what is causing the toilet paper Gremlins to hoard stuff from the ones that really need it.


----------



## SLADE

Who runs that national review? What are they all about?


----------



## robin416

Just read an article about testing in my area. People want to know why this SE area of the state has such limited tests. Turns out about half of the tests being used in large metro areas are compromised. So, the bad tests are still out there and not providing the real numbers.


----------



## GTX63

mreynolds said:


> How racist to name a test kit after a City in Asia.


Might be a good time for the sensitivity police to begin practicing social distancing.


----------



## MoonRiver

SRSLADE said:


> Who runs that national review? What are they all about?


Let's just say Orange is not their favorite color.


----------



## Irish Pixie

mreynolds said:


> I hate to say this but your journalist is a flat out lying.
> 
> Only 5k test to date on the US?
> 
> Is that just the celebrities and the people in my city? No one else has been tested?
> 
> I say this because I am at this moment (well not right this moment) building the third testing site in my county. It's an indoor one. Complete with negative air exchange. If just every county has done half of what we have I can guarantee it is more than 5000 to date.
> 
> People like your journalist is what is causing the toilet paper Gremlins to hoard stuff from the ones that really need it.


It states 5,000 _completed_ tests, that said, I can't verify the number, and I did repeated searches. It takes anywhere from 24-48 hours (right now) to get test results. The Covid 19 test in the article is much faster.


----------



## mreynolds

GTX63 said:


> Might be a good time for the sensitivity police to begin practicing social distancing.


Ikr.


----------



## mreynolds

Irish Pixie said:


> It states 5,000 _completed_ tests, that said, I can't verify the number, and I did repeated searches. It takes anywhere from 24-48 hours (right now) to get test results. The Covid 19 test in the article is much faster.


The people that tested positive in this country is over 5000. That right there should tell you the article is lying. 

He or she (I didn't look to see) is just fear mongering and whipping up the Gremlins.


----------



## mreynolds

SRSLADE said:


> Who runs that national review? What are they all about?


Even worse, what about the ones that repeat it?


----------



## po boy

I think the total test done worldwide is between 1.5 and2 million. There is not a lot of accuracy and China is slack on reporting. As of March 17, 2020, they reported 320,000 but the data collection date is February 24, 2020. They are not even listed on the current spreadsheet.


----------



## geo in mi

It's not the speed of testing. They are having trouble finding drivers small enough to fit inside the Tonka delivery trucks......

geo


----------



## emdeengee

newfieannie said:


> Thanks Em! my son said i worry needlessly


You ask good questions and thinking outside the box about things that others don't think about is always helpful. When questions run around in your head and go unanswered it does lead to worry and assumptions.

I do hope everyone has some cash at home. Many businesses do not want to handle cash now but if we lose the internet then that is all we will have. Up here we have lost the internet quite a few times bringing everything to a standstill. In fact many businesses have had to create a system for cash so that they can keep open. This does mess up their inventory systems which are all computerized now and upgrade with every transaction. Last time we lost the internet the banks had a run on cash when they opened again. My husband always has cash so he was able to pass it on to his staff who are all debit card users. They could not believe that we have never used a debit card.


----------



## poppy

They said they were doing 10K tests a day at the first of the week and many more per day by the end of the week. I saw a drive thru test facility on tv that had hundreds of cars lined up. All these tests are why our infection numbers are climbing so fast just like they were expected to.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

I used a debit card ONCE just to see how it worked. 

Ah, well. I am glad to be of a certain age.


----------



## SLADE

You can bet credit cards are getting a workout.


----------



## poppy

Ann-NWIowa said:


> Information out of China is not reliable so we have no way of knowing how things actually went/how many died/etc.
> 
> EMT's without masks in a small southern Iowa town put out request for masks from workers that use them in their trades. Then someone posted saying they would sew masks for them. Pattern at turbanproject.com/patterns. I've seen posts from all over the world showing how to make masks. Best I watched was from Japan in Japanese, but watching provided good enough instructions I feel confident I could make the mask. Since I'm self-quarantined I don't need a mask.


China lied in the beginning but now there are many WHO and other disease experts over there seeing what is going on and every report I've seen says China is currently being honest. But, I still don't trust them.


----------



## emdeengee

I firmly believe that there are more good people in the world than bad and a crisis brings out the best in people. But there are those who are just idiots or evil. So we must be careful as well.

Just heard on the news that there is a hashtag now - Boomer Exterminator or something like this. People happy to see the older ones dying apparently. Not realizing all the knowledge that will disappear with them if we have such a sudden loss as in Italy where one province has lost all of the greatest generation and most of their boomers.

And a bunch of teens ran around a grocery store spitting on the produce. And others selling hand sanitizer that they make which burns people. 

Social distancing is not fad. It is vitally important to slow the spread. Beaches are full with people sharing very close air space - the sun is not going to kill this virus.


----------



## light rain

Irish Pixie said:


> It states 5,000 _completed_ tests, that said, I can't verify the number, and I did repeated searches. It takes anywhere from 24-48 hours (right now) to get test results. The Covid 19 test in the article is much faster.


I read that a childrens' hospital in Washington DC has a test that results are ready in 90 minutes.
The system is for use for the doctors, nurses, staff and children. 

Can anyone comment on the truth of this news?

Already 2 doctors in our area in WI are confirm positive...


----------



## po boy

poppy said:


> China lied in the beginning but now there are many WHO and other disease experts over there seeing what is going on and every report I've seen says China is currently being honest. But, I still don't trust them.


China's population is more than twenty times the population of Italy and the fact that the virus started in China, I find it hard to believe anything coming from them on cases and deaths.


----------



## Danaus29

mreynolds said:


> I hate to say this but your journalist is a flat out lying.
> 
> Only 5k test to date on the US?
> 
> Is that just the celebrities and the people in my city? No one else has been tested?
> 
> I say this because I am at this moment (well not right this moment) building the third testing site in my county. It's an indoor one. Complete with negative air exchange. If just every county has done half of what we have I can guarantee it is more than 5000 to date.
> 
> People like your journalist is what is causing the toilet paper Gremlins to hoard stuff from the ones that really need it.


Site giving the number of tests completed by the CDC and private labs by date
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html

In Ohio only hospitalized patients and health care workers will be tested now due to limited tests. All flu-negative cases will be treated as though they have Covid-19. I don't have a link but it was in the governors address this afternoon.

Please no debates about this but it shows the seriousness of the lack of PPE, all unnecessary surgical proceedures are to be postponed, including surgical abortions.


----------



## robin416

Doesn't help when one of our mayors from a major city is informing us that half the tests are compromised. So, there's still issues out there with inaccurate tests.


----------



## mreynolds

Danaus29 said:


> Site giving the number of tests completed by the CDC and private labs by date
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html
> 
> In Ohio only hospitalized patients and health care workers will be tested now due to limited tests. All flu-negative cases will be treated as though they have Covid-19. I don't have a link but it was in the governors address this afternoon.
> 
> Please no debates about this but it shows the seriousness of the lack of PPE, all unnecessary surgical proceedures are to be postponed, including surgical abortions.


I understand about lack of PPE for BSI. I used to be an EMT. How does your link not make the writer a liar?


----------



## mreynolds

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/i...hospital-patients/ar-BB11vpAa?ocid=spartanntp

Health officials in New York, California and other hard-hit parts of the country are restricting coronavirus testing to health care workers and the severely ill, saying the battle to contain the virus is lost and the country is moving into a new phase of the pandemic response. 

“Not every single person in the U.S. needs to get tested,” said Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. “When you go in and get tested, you are consuming personal protective equipment, masks and gowns — those are high priority for the health care workers who are taking care of people who have coronavirus disease.”


----------



## Danaus29

mreynolds said:


> I understand about lack of PPE for BSI. I used to be an EMT. How does your link not make the writer a liar?


I didn't say if the writer was accurate with the numbers or not. If you want to verify the information the site gives a daily nationwide test tally. I didn't add the numbers of tests done by the CDC labs.


----------



## romysbaskets

Here in WA it continues to escalate. So now, we have over 1800 positive tests with 94 deaths but our own governor says for every number publicized as positive, he says it is 4 times higher in reality based on scientific study and calculations as we have not had ENOUGH TESTS! So here in the hotbed of this disease with so many needing this test, only the sick seem to be able to get it but it is slowly increasing in number available or if you have confirmed exposure to someone who is positive. My daughters next door neighbors entire family had to go in for testing. They took a not wise trip to CA to visit family and now his Father is in critical Condition in CA not expected to survive and his Mom has just tested positive. These neighbors are close friends to my daughter and my granddaughter is their daughters best friend! Fortunately they have not had play dates so I am hoping my daughter and her family are safe!!!! We have 4 positive for the virus on this island. People are not listening....walking dogs and getting close to each other to pet the others dogs?? Then going right up to each others faces? We had to go empty more things out of my husbands empty office. Only he has been in there for months so that is safe. We are closing it as the lease was up and it will help us financially. However we have dogs we walk out back and not on the street. I am staying away from people!!! wow! I have been self isolating and despite my clients wanting me to clean for them, I have stopped my cleaning business completely. I have been with my one husband for 35 years and his compromised health means my work would put him in jeopardy! So therefore I stopped work for the duration!!! Staying in and enjoying my vacation!!!


----------



## Irish Pixie

light rain said:


> I read that a childrens' hospital in Washington DC has a test that results are ready in 90 minutes.
> The system is for use for the doctors, nurses, staff and children.
> 
> Can anyone comment on the truth of this news?
> 
> Already 2 doctors in our area in WI are confirm positive...


I know that Japan was working on a rapid result Covid test that worked on antibodies similar to how the rapid flu tests work. They may out in the public now.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Danaus29 said:


> I didn't say if the writer was accurate with the numbers or not. If you want to verify the information the site gives a daily nationwide test tally. I didn't add the numbers of tests done by the CDC labs.


Your graphs indicated only CDC labs could process tests for a certain length of time, when public labs started the completed test numbers soared. I can't verify the numbers either.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Mr. Pixie has had to work as an aid/floor nurse for the last three days (for the first time in 4 years), 12 hour shifts rather than his usual 8. They are weeks away from no PPE, and retired nurses/other employees are making them masks. They aren't acute care, aren't set up for isolation, and don't have the proper equipment for this pandemic. There's talk of turning the rest of the facility into convalescent care for Covid patients, but the psych workers won't have to staff it from what they've heard. He's going to get Covid, it's just a matter of time. He's 62.

My daughter's hospital already has outside people making masks, but they can't make face shields, real masks, or ventilators. She's resigned herself to the fact she's going to get Covid 19, and I don't see how she could possibly avoid it. Protocol can't be followed if you don't have proper equipment.

On Friday we decided that since I was a second vector into bring Covid to the grands (from Mr Pixie), I'd no longer watch them. This broke my heart, their hearts, and we've been Facetiming a couple of times a day. They just didn't understand, but I think the older two do now. Today they're coming to the house to bring us the cards and cupcakes they made, but we can't have contact. I have a huge sign to tape in the front window, "We love and miss you!" with their names.

(Politics belongs elsewhere)

When your family is on the front lines, it's an entirely different ball game.


----------



## Miss Kay

That is scary Pixie. I'm with you on how those who stuck their head in the sand are hurting our whole country. It's horrible to watch a fool and know the devastation they are causing and there is nothing that you can do about it but watch. I sure don't take pleasure in seeing them fall to their own idiocy and saying I told you so would do no good. So, we stand on the side lines and watch it all unfold and wonder what is the use of being warned when folks wont listen.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Yes, Bearfoot, but Pixie is processing her grief.


----------



## barnbilder

It's not as bad of a disease as it is being made out to be. Will it kill people? Yes. Based on all available data, 4 out of 5 people have almost no symptoms. Four out of five people that get it will most likely not feel compelled to test for it. The death rates are skewed to the high side. The only people that need to be tested are people that need treatment, so that doctors can determine what course of treatment to take. And health care workers that feel like they are coming down with something, so they don't spread it to compromised people in their care. For everyone else it will be a cold, maybe as bad as the flu, it will take years of data to make that determination. 

Italy is an overcrowded retirement community for the rest of Europe. The country is the size of Arizona, with 20 million more people than California. 800+ people died there the other day from Corona. The normal daily death rate in Italy is 1600 a day. Corona complications is no doubt replacing pneumonia and flu complications as a cause of death, but it is not likely to be causing too many extra deaths.

Extra deaths caused by the corona virus will probably come in the form of people that get injured and can't get medical care because of the shortage of resources caused by the widespread panic.


----------



## SLADE

Irish Pixie said:


> Mr. Pixie has had to work as an aid/floor nurse for the last three days (for the first time in 4 years), 12 hour shifts rather than his usual 8. They are weeks away from no PPE, and retired nurses/other employees are making them masks. They aren't acute care, aren't set up for isolation, and don't have the proper equipment for this pandemic. There's talk of turning the rest of the facility into convalescent care for Covid patients, but the psych workers won't have to staff it from what they've heard. He's going to get Covid, it's just a matter of time. He's 62.
> 
> My daughter's hospital already has outside people making masks, but they can't make face shields, real masks, or ventilators. She's resigned herself to the fact she's going to get Covid 19, and I don't see how she could possibly avoid it. Protocol can't be followed if you don't have proper equipment.
> 
> On Friday we decided that since I was a second vector into bring Covid to the grands (from Mr Pixie), I'd no longer watch them. This broke my heart, their hearts, and we've been Facetiming a couple of times a day. They just didn't understand, but I think the older two do now. Today they're coming to the house to bring us the cards and cupcakes they made, but we can't have contact. I have a huge sign to tape in the front window, "We love and miss you!" with their names.
> 
> I'm well into seriously loathing of those in power (and even the everyday people) that said this wasn't a big deal and just a cold. Testing, quarantines, and finding the needed equipment could have began at least a month ago.
> 
> When your family is on the front lines, it's an entirely different ball game.


You have some true american heroes in your family.
People won't forget who helped and who didn't.


----------



## robin416

Irish Pixie said:


> Mr. Pixie has had to work as an aid/floor nurse for the last three days (for the first time in 4 years), 12 hour shifts rather than his usual 8. They are weeks away from no PPE, and retired nurses/other employees are making them masks. They aren't acute care, aren't set up for isolation, and don't have the proper equipment for this pandemic. There's talk of turning the rest of the facility into convalescent care for Covid patients, but the psych workers won't have to staff it from what they've heard. He's going to get Covid, it's just a matter of time. He's 62.
> 
> My daughter's hospital already has outside people making masks, but they can't make face shields, real masks, or ventilators. She's resigned herself to the fact she's going to get Covid 19, and I don't see how she could possibly avoid it. Protocol can't be followed if you don't have proper equipment.
> 
> On Friday we decided that since I was a second vector into bring Covid to the grands (from Mr Pixie), I'd no longer watch them. This broke my heart, their hearts, and we've been Facetiming a couple of times a day. They just didn't understand, but I think the older two do now. Today they're coming to the house to bring us the cards and cupcakes they made, but we can't have contact. I have a huge sign to tape in the front window, "We love and miss you!" with their names.
> 
> I'm well into seriously loathing of those in power (and even the everyday people) that said this wasn't a big deal and just a cold. Testing, quarantines, and finding the needed equipment could have began at least a month ago.
> 
> When your family is on the front lines, it's an entirely different ball game.


Something to consider about not being able to have physical contact with the grands. What would they think if you or Mr. Pixie caught the virus from one of them? This isolating from loved ones is hard. But if it means being able to be together once again when this things subsides it is so worth it.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

He is stating the truth. The experts have said the same things.


----------



## georger

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

"*Infections
COVID-19*: Approximately 316,187 cases worldwide; 26,747 cases in the U.S. as of Mar. 22, 2020.*

*Flu*: Estimated 1 billion cases worldwide; 9.3 million to 45 million cases in the U.S. per year.

*Deaths*
*COVID-19*: Approximately 13,592 deaths reported worldwide; 340 deaths in the U.S., as of Mar. 22, 2020.*

*Flu*: 291,000 to 646,000 deaths worldwide; 12,000 to 61,000 deaths in the U.S. per year."


----------



## GTX63

Alice In TX/MO said:


> He is stating the truth. The experts have said the same things.


In someways it would appear that if things just go horribly wrong and just as the media projects, then they could finally prove their detractors wrong and by golly be right about something.
That would be misplaced ideals and a little out of check, not that I am saying it is occurring here.


----------



## light rain

Irish Pixie said:


> Mr. Pixie has had to work as an aid/floor nurse for the last three days (for the first time in 4 years), 12 hour shifts rather than his usual 8. They are weeks away from no PPE, and retired nurses/other employees are making them masks. They aren't acute care, aren't set up for isolation, and don't have the proper equipment for this pandemic. There's talk of turning the rest of the facility into convalescent care for Covid patients, but the psych workers won't have to staff it from what they've heard. He's going to get Covid, it's just a matter of time. He's 62.
> 
> My daughter's hospital already has outside people making masks, but they can't make face shields, real masks, or ventilators. She's resigned herself to the fact she's going to get Covid 19, and I don't see how she could possibly avoid it. Protocol can't be followed if you don't have proper equipment.
> 
> On Friday we decided that since I was a second vector into bring Covid to the grands (from Mr Pixie), I'd no longer watch them. This broke my heart, their hearts, and we've been Facetiming a couple of times a day. They just didn't understand, but I think the older two do now. Today they're coming to the house to bring us the cards and cupcakes they made, but we can't have contact. I have a huge sign to tape in the front window, "We love and miss you!" with their names.
> 
> I'm well into seriously loathing of those in power (and even the everyday people) that said this wasn't a big deal and just a cold. Testing, quarantines, and finding the needed equipment could have began at least a month ago.
> 
> When your family is on the front lines, it's an entirely different ball game.


I know what you are going through. No one can really understand unless they walk in another's shoes. Stay strong.

If copper really does kill the virus in less than an hour why can't the exterior of facemasks be treated with a copper exterior? Rinse off after a shift, air dry or in an oven... Insert a new cloth interior that is washable and bleachable... Wash hands thoroughly after removing or before putting on.


----------



## MoonRiver

Alice In TX/MO said:


> He is stating the truth. The experts have said the same things.


The experts lie to cover up for the mistakes they have made such as not having enough masks for American people, not having enough PPE, ventilators, and tests, and waiting too long to sound the alarm and begin preparation.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> The experts lie to cover up for the *mistakes they have made such as not having enough masks for American people*, not having enough PPE, ventilators, and tests, and waiting too long to sound the alarm and begin preparation.


If you were in charge of making purchases for a hospital, and one of your employees came to you and said: "We want you to buy 1000 times our normal supply of PPE because something *might* happen that would cause us to need them", what would you do?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

light rain said:


> If copper really does kill the virus in less than an hour why can't the exterior of facemasks be treated with a copper exterior?


Costs would be one huge reason.
It's expensive to fabricate metal and reuse it as opposed to paper that can be disposed.


----------



## HDRider

Bearfootfarm said:


> If you were in charge of making purchases for a hospital, and one of your employees came to you and said: "We want you to buy *1000* times our normal supply of PPE because something *might* happen that would cause us to need them", what would you do?


No, it would be 100,000 times


----------



## HDRider

Part of being smart is knowing that you don't know everything


----------



## Lisa in WA

HDRider said:


> Part of being smart is knowing that you don't know everything


This.
A thousand times, this.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

HDRider said:


> No, it would be 100,000 times


I started to put 100 times since the scenario was "one hospital", but the number is irrelevant since the point is the same. No one would think to approve such a purchase because everyone demands "affordable" healthcare, and you can't have that if hospitals spend money on things they "might" need.


----------



## HDRider

Bearfootfarm said:


> I started to put 100 times since the scenario was "one hospital", but the number is irrelevant since the point is the same. No one would think to approve such a purchase because everyone demands "affordable" healthcare, and you can't have that if hospitals spend money on things they "might" need.


We are witnessing irrational behavior at every turn.

On a panic scale of 1 to 10, we are at a good solid 3. Imagine an 8 or 9


----------



## GTX63

Crisis bring out the mentality among some of us that somebody should have know more, done more, spent more, said more, prepared more, etc. They are looking for something to be the end all and infallible. The truth is, there is no such thing.
They also need someone to blame.
No one will take care of your needs any better than you.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

HDRider said:


> On a panic scale of 1 to 10, we are at a good solid 3. Imagine an 8 or 9


Some seem to have started at around 7.


----------



## SLADE

If only people didn't lie when health is involved.


----------



## mreynolds

SRSLADE said:


> If only people didn't lie when health is involved.


Good point.

Be better if they never lied.


----------



## SLADE

mreynolds said:


> Good point.
> 
> Be better if they never lied.


We can only hope.


----------



## mreynolds

We are all looking for someone to blame. Someone to point out at fault for our problems right now. The fault is no one and everyone. Everyone that took it too serious and the ones that were not serious enough.

What's done is done. It's a little late in the game to be placing blame. Now is the time to pull together. No matter who you vote for or where you live. I have a sister and her family in quarantine in Arkansas because of someone that didn't take it serious enough. I'm not mad though. Life happens. Either live it or don't.


----------



## mreynolds

SRSLADE said:


> We can only hope.


Good thing hope is not attached to your pharynx. Our pulse ox would read below 50.


----------



## SLADE

I agree.We should wait for the facts before we blame anyone.


----------



## SLADE

mreynolds said:


> Good thing hope is not attached to your pharynx. Our pulse ox would read below 50.


My body parts are personal.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> If only people didn't *lie* when health is involved.


They shouldn't ever but many lack self control.


----------



## Irish Pixie

Do you (collective you) have family that are working with patients with active Covid that have been told to use a scarf rather than the N95 mask that is proper procedure because it's not available? Those medical professionals without proper PPE are going to get sick, and be in quarantine for at least two weeks. Who cares for the critical patients then? Do you want a gynecologist intubating your elderly parents?

There was a national pandemic team in place, it was disbanded. Why? Is the CDC fully funded? Why not?


----------



## mreynolds

The CDC does not build and manufacture PPE. Hospitals and health care professionals have their own protocol and guidelines they follow. Look instead to the admins for lack of supplies.


----------



## SLADE

It's been all about diversion. So far.
Let's hope it gets better.
So we can trust the information we're getting.


----------



## Irish Pixie

mreynolds said:


> The CDC does not build and manufacture PPE. Hospitals and health care professionals have their own protocol and guidelines they follow. Look instead to the admins for lack of supplies.


Keep politics out of GC.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

mreynolds said:


> The CDC does not build and manufacture PPE.


Most of it is made in China.


----------



## mreynolds

Irish Pixie said:


> Most people completely understand that that the CDC does not build or manufacture PPE. It was separate subject.
> 
> The point was that this virus was known about in late 2019. Nothing was done, nor was it taken seriously, until March 2020. Why?


I don't know why the hospital Mr. Pixie and your daughter works at didn't take it serious enough in December. Do you? That should be something we all should be looking at. It appears our 2 local hospitals did take it serious and have adequate supplies as long as the rest of us do our jobs and stay away from others. If they do run out then that has to be the responsibility of we the people who refuse to listen. 

I'm truly sorry your going through this. I know it has to be tough, but you are asking the wrong people the right questions.


----------



## HDRider

Chris in Mich said:


> So very wrong.
> I've posted at least 5 separate links including your Breitbart source that prove your statement false.


And you keep saying it and it has proven wrong multiple times to you too.

A lie is a lie, no matter how many time YOU repeat it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Chris in Mich said:


> So very wrong.
> I've posted at least 5 separate links including your Breitbart source that prove your statement false.


No, you posted a lot of links that proved nothing at all.


----------



## HDRider

mreynolds said:


> I don't know why the hospital Mr. Pixie and your daughter works at didn't take it serious enough in December. Do you? That should be something we all should be looking at. It appears our 2 local hospitals did take it serious and have adequate supplies as long as the rest of us do our jobs and stay away from others. If they do run out then that has to be the responsibility of we the people who refuse to listen.
> 
> I'm truly sorry your going through this. I know it has to be tough, but you are asking the wrong people the right questions.


I guess the president has to tell them to order masks


----------



## Irish Pixie

mreynolds said:


> I don't know why the hospital Mr. Pixie and your daughter works at didn't take it serious enough in December. Do you? That should be something we all should be looking at. It appears our 2 local hospitals did take it serious and have adequate supplies as long as the rest of us do our jobs and stay away from others. If they do run out then that has to be the responsibility of we the people who refuse to listen.
> 
> I'm truly sorry your going through this. I know it has to be tough, but you are asking the wrong people the right questions.


Thank you. For the sake of you and yours, I hope it remains that way in your area.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Irish Pixie said:


> Nothing was done, nor was it taken seriously, until March 2020.


That's more misinformation.



Irish Pixie said:


> Why don't you just report it rather than this passive aggressive route if you think it breaks a rule?


----------



## SLADE

HDRider said:


> I guess the president has to tell them to order masks


That would be wonderful as he has a small following.


----------



## mreynolds

Irish Pixie said:


> Thank you. For the sake of you and yours, I hope it remains that way in your area.


And I truly hope that when the 2 weeks of supplies are up that you mentioned, they will have plenty more so no one has to do without.


----------



## HDRider

SRSLADE said:


> That would be wonderful as he has a small following.


We shall see. Get with me later in November Bro


----------



## newfieannie

NS is under a state of emergency as of 11AM i think it was. about time. people were not listening. they were gathering in crowds and whatnot. not allowed to be in more than 5 at a time. the police have sweeping powers. hopefully there wont be an abuse of power but time for the government to get some guts and do what nfld did. god i hate to think about all those snowbirds coming back and probably dropping in to a grocery store on their way. ~Georgia


----------



## HDRider

newfieannie said:


> NS is under a state of emergency as of 11AM i think it was. about time. people were not listening. they were gathering in crowds and whatnot. not allowed to be in more than 5 at a time. the police have sweeping powers. hopefully there wont be an abuse of power but time for the government to get some guts and do what nfld did. god i hate to think about all those snowbirds coming back and probably dropping in to a grocery store on their way. ~Georgia


I suspect we will see that elsewhere, and many times over


----------



## Bearfootfarm

mreynolds said:


> And I truly hope that when the 2 weeks of supplies are up that you mentioned, they will have plenty more so no one has to do without.


Many are actually *helping* by spending their free time making masks.

https://www.13abc.com/content/news/Community-making-and-donating-masks-569004341.html


----------



## mreynolds

Bearfootfarm said:


> Many are actually *helping* by spending their free time making masks.
> 
> https://www.13abc.com/content/news/Community-making-and-donating-masks-569004341.html


I just read that the FEMA director says they are shipping daily. Mostly to west coast and east coast where it is the worst. 600 million more coming too but they don't have a date on them yet because everyone on the planet wants them too. I think once we gear up and make them here it will get better.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

HDRider said:


> Says you


I suspect the whole thread will be soon.


----------



## HDRider

Bearfootfarm said:


> I suspect the whole thread will be soon.


Saboteur provocateurs


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> If you were in charge of making purchases for a hospital, and one of your employees came to you and said: "We want you to buy 1000 times our normal supply of PPE because something *might* happen that would cause us to need them", what would you do?


Let's suppose I watched the news and knew that the coronavirus was wreaking havoc in China and was expected to become a pandemic and hit the US. I would create a task force to study the problem and make a recommendation within 2 weeks.


----------



## MoonRiver

mreynolds said:


> We are all looking for someone to blame. Someone to point out at fault for our problems right now. The fault is no one and everyone. Everyone that took it too serious and the ones that were not serious enough.
> 
> What's done is done. It's a little late in the game to be placing blame. Now is the time to pull together. No matter who you vote for or where you live. I have a sister and her family in quarantine in Arkansas because of someone that didn't take it serious enough. I'm not mad though. Life happens. Either live it or don't.


Two different points. While placing blame doesn't fix the problem any faster, that is no excuse for not placing blame if it is deserved. I would think the CDC is the most likely place that the biggest screw-ups occurred. 

The government is a bureaucracy, not a science organization. The main goal of a bureaucracy is to protect itself, not bold leadership. How could a new virus be such a surprise to organizations whose reason to exist is to be prepared for such events?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> Let's suppose I watched the news


All the news here at that time was about the impeachment proceedings.



MoonRiver said:


> *I would create a task force* to study the problem and make a recommendation within 2 weeks.


What if you were in the middle of a lengthy trial by people trying to remove you from your job?

What if you had tried to stop the influx of people carrying the disease but people called you "racist" and they found judges who wouldn't let you close borders?

Would you expect the supply chain to be able to fill those orders immediately when they had *never* had such demand in the past?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

HDRider said:


> Saboteur provocateurs


And triggered.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> Many are actually *helping* by spending their free time making masks.
> 
> https://www.13abc.com/content/news/Community-making-and-donating-masks-569004341.html


From what I have been able to find, I believe these masks are about 50% effective.


----------



## barnbilder

If it turns out that this becomes a bad situation because people didn't take it seriously, then the blame would rest squarely on the people that were saying we should take it seriously having an enormous track record of pumping out ridiculous conspiracy theories. As I recall, those same people had disparaging remarks to make about people that were in positions of power that were taking it seriously back in late January.

Classic case of buy who cried wolf. Lot's of people don't believe that boy any more, and they have no reason to. Could it cause this situation to be worse than it could have been, sure, but take that up with the boy who cried wolf.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> From what I have been able to find, I believe these masks are about 50% effective.


They are 100% more effective than no mask at all.
They can also be used over an N95 mask to make them last longer.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> All the news here at that time was about the impeachment proceedings.
> 
> What if you were in the middle of a lengthy trial by people trying to remove you from your job?
> 
> What if you had tried to stop the influx of people carrying the disease but people called you "racist" and they found judges who wouldn't let you close borders?
> 
> Would you expect the supply chain to be able to fill those orders immediately when they had *never* had such demand in the past?


I believe CDC is the organization with the responsibility for things like this. Trump offered to send CDC to China, so it is not like CDC didn't know what was going on. Someone in government had the responsibility to loudly sound the alarm, begin preparations, and alert the Executive branch of problems that needed to be addressed.

State and federal government, as well as the military, game all this stuff out. I read an article today that talked about Cuomo rejected a plan to stockpile PPE for just such an event. They all knew an event of this magnitude might happen and chose to pretend it wouldn't.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I believe CDC is the organization with the responsibility for things like this. Trump offered to send CDC to China, so it is not like CDC didn't know what was going on. Someone in government had the responsibility to loudly *sound the alarm, begin preparations*, and alert the Executive branch of problems that needed to be addressed.


They did all that.
More is being done every day.

Expectations have to be realistic.
4 months ago no one even knew this virus existed.


----------



## SLADE

Diversion takes us away from the truth and many just want the truth.


----------



## HDRider

MoonRiver said:


> I believe CDC is the organization with the responsibility for things like this. Trump offered to send CDC to China, so it is not like CDC didn't know what was going on. Someone in government had the responsibility to loudly sound the alarm, begin preparations, and alert the Executive branch of problems that needed to be addressed.
> 
> State and federal government, as well as the military, game all this stuff out. I read an article today that talked about Cuomo rejected a plan to stockpile PPE for just such an event. They all knew an event of this magnitude might happen and chose to pretend it wouldn't.


If non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) could have been conducted one week, two weeks, or three weeks earlier in China, cases could have been reduced by 66%, 86%, and 95%, respectively, together with significantly reducing the number of affected areas.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.03.20029843v3

The World Health Organization (WHO) praised Beijing’s response to the novel coronavirus in line with Chinese propagandists, at one point denying human-to-human transmission was taking place as the deadly and highly contagious disease spiraled out of control inside the communist country.










Notice the date
https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?s=20


----------



## Bearfootfarm

HDRider said:


> Notice the date
> https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1217043229427761152?s=20





> World Health Organization (WHO)
> @WHO
> *Jan 14*
> 
> Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found *no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission* of the novel Coronavirus


So that is probably what the CDC would have told everyone here at that time.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

SRSLADE said:


> We can only hope.


One can do more than "hope".
They can simply stick to reality.


----------



## HDRider

Bearfootfarm said:


> One can do more than "hope".
> They can simply stick to reality.


The real reality, not the personally defined reality


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

Oh dear. 

Everyone defines their own reality. ALWAYS.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

HDRider said:


> The real reality, not the personally defined reality


Exactly.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Everyone defines their own reality. ALWAYS.


Many try.
Real reality surprises them.


----------



## Chris in Mich

"Crimson Contagion" simulation occurred Jan-Aug of 2019 with draft report dated October 2019 found U.S. DHS and HHS grossly unprepared.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> *They all knew* an event of this magnitude might happen and chose to pretend it wouldn't.


It never happened before.
This is what CDC was saying Jan 29:
"Because *experts don't yet know exactly how the virus is transmitted*, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is recommending that health care workers treat it like an airborne pathogen — germs that can travel in particles or droplets in the air. 

That means health care workers interacting with a coronavirus patient should wear a heavy-duty mask called an N95 respirator. These respirators are designed to fit tightly around the nose and mouth, and, when worn correctly, block out at least 95% of small airborne particles, according to the CDC."
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...ay-about-their-role-in-containing-coronavirus


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> It never happened before.
> This is what CDC was saying Jan 29:
> "Because *experts don't yet know exactly how the virus is transmitted*, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is recommending that health care workers treat it like an airborne pathogen — germs that can travel in particles or droplets in the air.
> 
> That means health care workers interacting with a coronavirus patient should wear a heavy-duty mask called an N95 respirator. These respirators are designed to fit tightly around the nose and mouth, and, when worn correctly, block out at least 95% of small airborne particles, according to the CDC."
> https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...ay-about-their-role-in-containing-coronavirus


So why didn't they have the sense to make sure there were going to be enough N95 masks?


----------



## SLADE

CDC in 2015

3 Ways Global Outbreaks Impact the U.S. Economy
A global infectious disease outbreak can have a catastrophic impact on the U.S. economy – even if the disease never reaches the U.S.

JOBS: In 2015, the U.S. exported over $300 billion in material goods and services to 49 health security priority countries. These exports supported over 1.6 million jobs across America in sectors like agriculture, manufacturing, and natural resource extraction.

TRAVEL AND TRADE: Fear of contagion can impact travel, tourism, and imports, especially if cases occur in the United States, as they did for the 2014-2016 West Africa Ebola outbreak.

COST: Estimates show that pandemics are likely to cost over $6 trillion in the next century, with an annualized expected loss of more than $60 billion for potential pandemics. However, investing $4.5 billion per year in building global capacities could avert these catastrophic cos


----------



## newfieannie

i was thinking of wearing my N95 mask tomorrow to the grocers but they are telling us we dont need to if we haven't travelled and dont have any signs of anything.the physical distance is enough ~Georgia


----------



## MoonRiver

newfieannie said:


> i was thinking of wearing my N95 mask tomorrow to the grocers but they are telling us we dont need to if we haven't travelled and dont have any signs of anything.the physical distance is enough ~Georgia


If you have the masks, why not wear one? It seems the advice they gave is more so you don't spread it, not so you don't get it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> So why didn't they have the sense to make sure there were going to be enough N95 masks?


There is no way to make "enough" when everyone wants them all at once.

It's not magic. 

There would be "enough" for those who *need* them if those who don't hadn't run out and bought so many.



MoonRiver said:


> If you have the masks, why not wear one? It seems the advice they gave is more so you don't spread it, not so you don't get it.


----------



## HDRider

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> Everyone defines their own reality. ALWAYS.


Does not change things, except in their head


----------



## Bearfootfarm

painterswife said:


> Unprepared and slow to act even when they had the info. It was not *a hoax* even though some wanted to believe it and still seem to want to.


No one ever really said it was.


----------



## newfieannie

what they said was the mask would do more harm than good because you could be adjusting it and touching your face etc. i might just wrap my scarf/shawl around my face and tie it tight and leave it there ~Georgia


----------



## Elevenpoint

painterswife said:


> Unprepared and slow to act even when they had the info. It was not a hoax even though some wanted to believe it and still seem to want to.


Why not influenza A and B a public panic.
35,000 coronavirus worldwide. 
35 million with influenza in the USA alone.
Doesn't compare.


----------



## Elevenpoint

painterswife said:


> Comparing Covid numbers over months instead of a year is not correct statistical analysis.


That is false, flu season starts in November.


----------



## painterswife

elevenpoint said:


> That is false, flu season starts in November.


No. Flu season starts at different times of the year in different hemispheres. Covid has not been everywhere until this last few weeks. Get back to us when we have statistical numbers over the same periods of time for the entire world.


----------



## mreynolds

MoonRiver said:


> If you have the masks, why not wear one? It seems the advice they gave is more so you don't spread it, not so you don't get it.


Yeah, but using that logic, why do they need so many for the health care workers? Why not just put them on the sick?

I think what "they told us" is what they wanted us to hear only.


----------



## Elevenpoint

painterswife said:


> No. Flu season starts at different times of the year in different hemispheres. Covid has not been everywhere until this last few weeks. Get back to us when we have statistical numbers over the same periods of time for the entire world.


No flu season is primarily December January February March in the USA.
So 35 million for flu season.
That's data from CDC, contact them if you want to correct their errors.


----------



## SLADE

mreynolds said:


> Yeah, but using that logic, why do they need so many for the health care workers? Why not just put them on the sick?
> 
> I think what "they told us" is what they wanted us to hear only.


I think you said you are a fireman. Whats happening in your neck of the woods?


----------



## Chris in Mich

Washington Post has a series of split screens showing shift in coronavirus risk coverage by FOX; given how large their +50 age demographic is and how singular FOX is for many of them, i can only imagine how confused many of those folks must be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...x-nine-days-after-he-called-coronavirus-hoax/
(i did not read article as i have no subscription)


----------



## mreynolds

SRSLADE said:


> I think you said you are a fireman. Whats happening in your neck of the woods?


It's not bad here yet except the stores are empty. The next town over they are fining groups of ten or more 1000 bucks a piece if they are caught. Not an major uptick in call volume...yet... but I think it is coming. It is like a big pot of water about to boil over. 

We are probably one of the last in line on the supply They did open back up the chicken plants so there shouldn't be a shortage in chicken now.


----------



## painterswife

elevenpoint said:


> No flu season is primarily December January February March in the USA.
> So 35 million for flu season.
> That's data from CDC, contact them if you want to correct their errors.


You can't compare even Nov to now in the US when it has been here about 6 weeks. Trying to is using incomplete statistical analysis. That is spin. Try again when you have correct statistical scientific analysis.


----------



## SLADE

mreynolds said:


> It's not bad here yet except the stores are empty. The next town over they are fining groups of ten or more 1000 bucks a piece if they are caught. Not an major uptick in call volume...yet... but I think it is coming. It is like a big pot of water about to boil over.
> 
> We are probably one of the last in line on the supply They did open back up the chicken plants so there shouldn't be a shortage in chicken now.


Good luck with it.


----------



## wr

Read the rules regarding politics. This will be the last time I clean this thread.


----------



## Elevenpoint

painterswife said:


> You can't compare even Nov to now in the US when it has been here about 6 weeks. Trying to is using incomplete statistical analysis. That is spin. Try again when you have correct statistical scientific analysis.


Up to 1 billion flu cases worldwide. 
335,000 coronavirus.


----------



## painterswife

elevenpoint said:


> Up to 1 billion flu cases worldwide.
> 335,000 coronavirus.


Not statistical comparable by time. Flu was not slowed down by closing borders and social distancing. You are trying to compare apples and oranges. Get back to us when you can correctly compare them using proper time and no lockdowns.


----------



## Robotron

Here is a good source for the flu.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/fluactivitysurv.htm


----------



## Elevenpoint

painterswife said:


> Not statistical comparable by time. Flu was not slowed down by closing borders and social distancing. You are trying to compare apples and oranges. Get back to us when you can correctly compare them using proper time and no lockdowns.


Lockdown? Lowes, Menards, Walmart, grocery store, gas station were all busier than usual. I don't know anybody that has done social distancing or changed their life in any way.


----------



## light rain

Bearfootfarm said:


> If you were in charge of making purchases for a hospital, and one of your employees came to you and said: "We want you to buy 1000 times our normal supply of PPE because something *might* happen that would cause us to need them", what would you do?


After this chaos maybe the best reply should be "how much?"...


----------



## light rain

Bearfootfarm said:


> Costs would be one huge reason.
> It's expensive to fabricate metal and reuse it as opposed to paper that can be disposed.


If it was reusable for long term (and be medically safe) it would prevent the fiasco of sourcing our vital medical supplies from a foreign country... It would keep doctors, nurses and anyone at risk more protected and thereby saving lots of $$$ in lost wages.

But how to create these I have no clue.
*BTW what are the other reasons not to consider it?


----------



## Danaus29

You are all wrong about when the US should have started to stockpile PPE. The time for that passed decades ago when the manufacturing of such items was shifted from the US to other countries. We should have kept a 6 month to one year supply on hand just in case the supply of imported products was interrupted. We have seen small case scenarios of interrupted supply chains before which should have served as a warning. No one was listening then, I can only hope that TPTB pay attention when this crisis has passed.


----------



## MoonRiver

Interesting article with some new ideas.


> Michael Levitt, an American-British-Israeli biophysicist who won the 2013 Nobel prize for chemistry for "the development of multiscale models for complex chemical systems," has become something of a household name in China over the last few months. Although his specialty is not in epidemiology, he accurately forecast the slowing down of the spread of the virus in February, giving hope to those affected by the lockdown.


Israeli Nobel Laureate: Coronavirus spread is slowing


----------



## newfieannie

that's very interesting! i sure hope he's right and it does start slowing down all over


----------



## MoonRiver

Here's an interesting paradox. An Israeli company may have an oral vaccine approved in Israel within the next 4 - 5 months for COVID-19, but it wouldn't be FDA approved. If that happens, I guess the only way it might be available in US is if it is approved for compassionate use.


> Israeli scientists are on the cusp of developing the first vaccine against the novel coronavirus, according to Science and Technology Minister Ofir Akunis. If all goes as planned, the vaccine could be ready within a few weeks and available in 90 days, according to a release.


https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENC...weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101


----------



## MoonRiver

newfieannie said:


> that's very interesting! i sure hope he's right and it does start slowing down all over


I've been asking why the rate goes way down before we are even close to herd immunity. This is the first explanation I have heard that makes sense.


----------



## keenataz

barnbilder said:


> If it turns out that this becomes a bad situation because people didn't take it seriously, then the blame would rest squarely on the people that were saying we should take it seriously having an enormous track record of pumping out ridiculous conspiracy theories. As I recall, those same people had disparaging remarks to make about people that were in positions of power that were taking it seriously back in late January.
> 
> Classic case of buy who cried wolf. Lot's of people don't believe that boy any more, and they have no reason to. Could it cause this situation to be worse than it could have been, sure, but take that up with the boy who cried wolf.


You mean the people who were right. You’re blaming the people who said this was going to be a problem? But not Those who downplayed it?


----------



## Bearfootfarm

light rain said:


> After this chaos maybe the best reply should be "how much?"...


There isn't as much "chaos" as the media implies.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

painterswife said:


> Get back to us when we have *statistical numbers* over the same periods of time for the entire world.


Drunk drivers kill about 30 per day.
There have been 82 days this year.

That's 2460 deaths.
That's 5.89 times more than the virus has killed here during that time.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENC...weeks-we-will-have-coronavirus-vaccine-619101





> *Italy's higher death rate, he said, was likely due to the fact that* *elderly people make up a greater percentage of the population than they do in other countries* such as China or France. “Furthermore, Italian culture is very warm, and Italians have a very rich social life. For these reasons, it is important to keep people apart and prevent sick people from coming into contact with healthy people.”


I pointed that out earlier but some didn't want to believe it.



> “Those are extremely comfortable conditions for the virus and still, *only 20% were infected*. It is a lot, but pretty similar to the infection rate of the common flu,” Levitt said. Based on those figures, his conclusion was that most people are simply naturally immune.


And of that 20%, around 80% have mild cases.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> I've been asking why the rate goes way down before we are even close to herd immunity. This is the first explanation I have heard that makes sense.


It has also been predicted the rates will go down as the weather warms.


----------



## newfieannie

and also BarnBilder mentioned that awhile back about the warm culture. and it was just after that i read about it. not only kissing their own family but all the relatives and friends and anyone else they meet. likely that could have been what happened. although they use to do that in a church where i took my brother. i didn't like it and moved back but he was use to it. ~Georgia


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> It has also been predicted the rates will go down as the weather warms.


By you. There is no evidence that is the case. Australia and S America are starting to experience a high number of cases, as are south Asian countries.


----------



## Lisa in WA

MoonRiver said:


> By you. There is no evidence that is the case. Australia and S America are starting to experience a high number of cases, as are south Asian countries.


the weather is cooling there...Southern Hemisphere. This is fall for them.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> By you. *There is no evidence* that is the case. Australia and S America are starting to experience a high number of cases, as are south Asian countries.


No, not just by me.
The fact that it is in the Southern Hemisphere is irrelevant.

Most of those cases originally came from the outside.
No one said it would vanish overnight.

There's lots of evidence that coronaviruses die quicker and spread less under hot, humid conditions, and links have been posted more than once. 

It's pointless to have to keep repeating the same things every day.


----------



## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> No, not just by me.
> The fact that it is in the Southern Hemisphere is irrelevant.
> 
> Most of those cases originally came from the outside.
> No one said it would vanish overnight.
> 
> There's lots of evidence that coronaviruses die quicker and spread less under hot, humid conditions, and links have been posted more than once.
> 
> It's pointless to have to keep repeating the same things every day.


That is opinion. Repeating it doesn't make it true. There is no proof this virus will be effected by seasons.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO

I am trying to design a spreadsheet to keep score here.


----------



## MoonRiver

Lisa in WA said:


> the weather is cooling there...Southern Hemisphere. This is fall for them.


You might want to make note of where the equator is.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> That is opinion.


One supported by data:
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615381/coronavirus-spread-could-slow-with-warmer-weather/


> Several initial analyses of transmission data suggest the pandemic could ease up in summer.
> *The news:* Higher temperatures and humidity are correlated with a lower rate of the novel coronavirus’s spread, according to early research that has yet to be peer reviewed. The hypothesis is plausible: the climate’s impact on the influenza virus is well established, for example, and a similar phenomenon has been suspected for the SARS coronavirus as well.


----------



## mreynolds

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am trying to design a spreadsheet to keep score here.


Send me a copy. I can use Excel.


----------



## Bearfootfarm

MoonRiver said:


> You might want to make note of where the equator is.


It's right where it's always been.

Here's a site showing all the planes that fly all over the world
Many of them cross the Equator carrying sick people:
https://www.flightradar24.com/-1.47,-63.31/4


----------



## Bearfootfarm

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa.../can-coronavirus-be-crushed-by-warmer-weather


> "Coronaviruses tend to be associated with winter because of how they're spread," explains Elizabeth McGraw, who directs the Center for Infectious Disease Dynamics at Pennsylvania State University. For one thing, in winter months, people may cluster together more indoors, increasing the number of folks at risk of becoming infection by someone who's contagious.
> 
> In addition, there's the matter of transmission. Viruses spread through respiratory droplets that are released when an infected person coughs or sneezes. And the droplets are more likely to spread under certain conditions. "What we know is that they're [the droplets] are better at staying afloat when the air is cold and dry, " says McGraw. "When the air is humid and warm, [the droplets] fall to the ground more quickly, and it makes transmission harder."


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## MoonRiver

Bearfootfarm said:


> One supported by data:
> https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615381/coronavirus-spread-could-slow-with-warmer-weather/


I never said it wasn't plausible. I said it is not proven. It is not a fact. It is conjecture. It is opinion. It is a hypothesis.


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