# How do you respond...Baltimore



## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

If you were caught in the Baltimore situation? Either lived there, or just happened to be doing a day trip to the aquarium, or baseball game?

CCW is not allowed in Baltimore, as I understand, so you are pretty much reliant on your hands and brain.

Personally, I love the Inner Harbor and the aquarium and we go about every other year, and each time we go there (or any big city / population area), I run little scenarios in my head...but this one is a tad bigger as there were / are different locations of riots, possibly cutting off egress routes.

Thoughts? I'll chime in shortly.

Matt


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

I know The area well and I would go out of town the back way. From the area mentioned head toward the airport it will get you out of the area the fastest with highways and back roads and find your way home.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

Probably lie low if I lived there, and get the heck out of town if I were a visitor, I guess. 

But I'm just so sad about the whole thing. The injury to prisoner was absolutely dead wrong, but the rioting is unconscionable. I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of destroying property and businesses of people who were in no way involved. How does that further the cause of bringing the perpetrators to justice?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I cannot imagine the fear that the people who cannot leave, feel.

It is sickening, that the young man was killed while in police custody.
If that were my son? I might be out for blood too.........

And the famous quote "you get what you subsidize."
better yet "we are reaping what was sown".


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

The way I see it for us;
When we go down, it's just a day trip. We park at a garage about 4 blocks from the Inner Harbor, and the four of us walk down and usually start at the Aquarium. We pack a lunch, so when we get hungry, we go outside to the picnic area, eat, then return inside. 
Now, if we came out for lunch and saw rioting...probably hot foot it right back inside...but now how to get to the car which is 7 blocks away...and not knowing if the rioting is in that direction as well?
Sadly, I'm afraid I'd have to be one of the sheep that just stays in the aquarium until order returns...I'd want out, but the potential cost to my family would be too dire to risk.
If it was just me...I'd probably take the chance and try to get to my vehicle...I always have my hands, a knife and situational awareness.

Matt


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I get out and stay out. I've given up going to Hockey games,the auto show, ect. in Detroit.That is what needs to happen. The regular people need to stop electing officials that condone this kind of garbage.But that won't happen until they look at the reasons their ways don't work. Look at Detroit- I was born there, then the 67 riots-my parents could not get the family out fast enough. That took years, saveing and the entire family spent weekends and more, building a home in the country.
This is what happens with the lib. mindset. Detroit has had lib. mayors for something like 50 years. Chicago-90 IIRC, and mayor Daley (with connections to the Obamas) is a full blown Communist.
Dh and I had to go into Det. to visit my Mom in the hosptial after her sugery that gave her the ability to walk again. I guess that is what Dr. do now, operate in diffrent hosptials on diff. days of the week. I need to see a dr. that is only in an offic close to me 2 days a month-the rest of the time he is in Flint-I won't go there without my Dh eather. The urban sprawl is getting spread out and a store I used to like to go to-I can't because it isn't safe.The glares, the attatude of people is getting worse, and we knew it it would because we know who is in office.


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Roadking said:


> If you were caught in the Baltimore situation? Either lived there, or just happened to be doing a day trip to the aquarium, or baseball game?
> 
> CCW is not allowed in Baltimore, as I understand, so you are pretty much reliant on your hands and brain.
> 
> ...


Never lived there but this is the scenario that made me leave cities behind and move to the furthest rural location I could. I knew this was coming. If I were stuck there now, I'd opt to get out and live in my vehicle for now if I had to.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

I stay as much as possible out of cities. I hate going into Buffalo, and avoid it when ever I can, which is most of the time. The last time I was in Buffalo I was at Sister's Hospital and was glad to get out. That said even in my own town of 25,000 I avoid large crowds. If you see smoke or hear riotous noise go the other direction. See an angry crowd, stay away, and if you must watch, watch from a good distance.
It is an annoying song but basically correct.......

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g76DUy7jKY[/ame]

Thank Autotune.


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## Red_Leg (Apr 13, 2015)

I avoid inner cities even if it means I have to forgo some things that I like. If I absolutely have to go I check egress routes, law enforcement presence and park accordingly. Always try to be very aware of what's going on in the area and I at least have a weapon in the vehicle if not on me, regardless of the law. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six, especially if family is involved.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Replace the words Freddie Gray with something like ... economic collapse, peak oil runs out, depression, etc ...... Then you can replace the city of baltimore with any big city name in the country.

This is EXACTLY what it will look like when a big collapse hits. When people run out of supplies like food and basic necessities ...the riots and looting begins. There will be no police just like baltimore because the police will be at home protecting their families. When the looting hoardes empty all the businesses, peoples houses will be next ..... Your house maybe ??

Baltimore is a reality check of how things will be and how you should be prepping for any big downturn than could come to this country ..... economic downturn or some stupidity happening in the middle east possibly and gas going to $10 a gallon ..... I can't predict the future, but what I've seen in the last 48 hours shows me EXACTLY how people react to situations. Ferguson has qualified what I know can come. Baltimore is just the icing on the cake to this absurd reality that we should be prepping for. Food, water, a good secure shelter, and some sort of reliable firepower to keep you and your families safe. A good high capacity 12 gauge with buckshot and slugs is still easily affordable and would be really effective when they in your front yard coming to kick down your doors .....

Be forewarned about what reality holds for people when times turn really tough. People think I'm wrong. Baltimore proves me otherwise ....

Ohio Rusty ><>


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## remmettn (Dec 26, 2005)

I stay as much as possible out of big cities.
In Spokane this week, they put out a warning what to do if a moose comes into your yard.
Step one do not pet the moose!!
:bdh::surrender:


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

I agree...we avoid the big population areas for the most part, but do go for a vaca sometimes.
Rusty...agree...remmettn...dont pet the moose...LOL!.

Glad we are about 40 minutes from what could be considered a "city".

Matt


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Turn on local radio, check on local radio Facebook page..pretty up to date info.
Do not separate.
Do not look like a threat...prepared to respond as a threat should the need arise.
......what could be a weapon on you, with you or near you. 
Mirror can allow you to see behind you or around a corner.

A baseball at the park is a toy.... or a tool in the right hand.

Smell smoke get out... follow fire safety.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Map out an exit. Be aware of any dead ends. Be prepared to move fast and under cover as much as possible.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Any community that does not allow CCW I know the inmates have taken over the asylum and I stay away.
Simple fact of life; If criminals know law abiding citizens can not protect themselves, its 'game on' for them.


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## Red_Leg (Apr 13, 2015)

Ohio Rusty said:


> Replace the words Freddie Gray with something like ... economic collapse, peak oil runs out, depression, etc ...... Then you can replace the city of baltimore with any big city name in the country.
> 
> This is EXACTLY what it will look like when a big collapse hits. When people run out of supplies like food and basic necessities ...the riots and looting begins. There will be no police just like baltimore because the police will be at home protecting their families. When the looting hoardes empty all the businesses, peoples houses will be next ..... Your house maybe ??
> 
> ><>


I don't disagree with your basic premise, I just think it would be much worse in any of the scenarios you mention. Maybe more slow rolling.


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## JustMe2 (Mar 8, 2011)

No we are not allowed to carry in Baltimore, Md....doesn't mean some of us don't though. "I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6."


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

always back into parking spots so you can pull out look for other ways in and out of parking , work hard at not being "seen" blend might be a way to say it, print off an aerial map of the location you will be fold them up and carry them in a pocket often things can be avoided if you have another way to get someplace or get out of someplace 

drive a car with a bit of authority weight and horse power , drive in such a way you don't become trapped , leave your self and out yes people will cut in front of you a lot when you leave extra car lengths in-front , they may think it strange that you leave a car length between you and the car in front of you at a stop light.
a vehicle is an powerful weapon if it comes time to use it use it 
no one is coming to help you help yourself.

deciding to stay or go, most rioting winds it's self down by day break , if you have a safe place to stay put staying put works , leaving is also good , but it's about rationaly deciding when to stay and when to go


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

I do not go to places that I cant use my CCW. It is good in the states around me and if I cant find what I want in that area it is too far for me go anyway.


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## motherhenshow (Apr 7, 2015)

My family and I are *too* close to a major city for my comfort, but we stay away. We would not knowingly enter into any area where riots/demonstrations are an issue. It is a sad thing, what is happening in these areas. Guaranteed death to all local business, and local jobs. The business owners will rightfully close their doors. Very sad for the community. I am not sure why the rioters destroy their own towns? It only serves to drag the community down further.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

here is the thing about CCW , you basically can't carry enough reloads to handle more than a few targets , my main CCW gun is a LC9 I ran it one day in PPL practical pistol league , it does not take very long at all to empty 8 rounds 4-5 seconds from a draw if I am taking a fairly solid aim , then I am out and I am digging for mag 2 even with mag-2 on my belt it's a 5 second reload that isn't even bothering to pick up the first mag just let it hit the ground and keep moving.

I say this to emphasize you have to use the tool between your ears CC is a great tool , but it has some definite limitations to what you can carry and our modern carry of small easily concealed guns is really focused on a single or low target count threat.

even with a 15+1 gun your not going to take on an angry mob of rioters , first if any form of goverment existed or returns justifying it would be a hard sell as justified second it only takes one round coming back and your done, third why make it worse.

a compass another tool easy to carry a small one , when you get all turned around it points you in the direction you really want to be moving.

don't mistake me for some who might be saying don't carry ,I am saying CARRY but use your head , you just can't find a handgun laying around when you need one and when you need one little else will do , but use your head a CCW is not a intimidation tool and it is not a death ray , it is not to be displayed, it is for when you need it.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> here is the thing about CCW , you basically can't carry enough reloads to handle more than a few targets , my main CCW gun is a LC9 I ran it one day in PPL practical pistol league , it does not take very long at all to empty 8 rounds 4-5 seconds from a draw if I am taking a fairly solid aim , then I am out and I am digging for mag 2 even with mag-2 on my belt it's a 5 second reload that isn't even bothering to pick up the first mag just let it hit the ground and keep moving.
> 
> I say this to emphasize you have to use the tool between your ears CC is a great tool , but it has some definite limitations to what you can carry and our modern carry of small easily concealed guns is really focused on a single or low target count threat.
> 
> ...


I had this happen to me. Me and a cop were facing 50 people and one of them said you don't have enough bullets to get all of us. I answered him by saying you are first any other volunteers. They soon got the message and dispersed.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Old Vet said:


> I had this happen to me. Me and a cop were facing 50 people and one of them said you don't have enough bullets to get all of us. I answered him by saying you are first any other volunteers. They soon got the message and dispersed.


see you used your head and spared the paper work with modern guns it isn't even that hard to carry 50+ rounds 18 in the gun and 18+17x2=52 and many cops no carry 17x3+18=69

one of the cops I know carries 40s&w G22 15x3+16=61 on him next to him in his squad the AR has 30+ a mag on the stock for 30 more and then he has a bag with several more mags for each ready to grab easily he works nights in a rural area that has 2-3 fairly mayor drug trafficking routes through it he knows backup is a ways off.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Short answer for me in this day and time is any place that doesn't reciprocate my CCW permit is an area I will not be in.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Ccw question.
Ok I live n an open carry ...I know it is also ccw state so... I only know of two... I was gonna say one person but then I remembered the wife too carries concealed.
So, many folks open carry that at the local store it is like a holster convention.

How, do you feel about open carry...I don't carry because my skills tell me not to.

I am sure that those with out holsters that a good share are carrying..

So...what is the real benefit to carry concealed vs open carry. Would you open carry if it was the norm. Would you open and conceal one surprize?

Note..I would not say nor have I ever gotten the impression that the open carry folk do it for show. Guys tend to keep their wallet in their back pocket or Breast pocket and a strap or gun flashes as the reach to pay..

The guy I know who does ccw he teaches the classes and he'll do a demo where he has folk say where his gun is and he'll have like 3more on him to teach that concealed mean unnoticed.

I like the fact that many trusted people do open carry as we do have drug issues here.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Open carry, to me, puts a target on you. Concealed carry...bad guys don't know who is armed.

Matt


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

open carry is fine , expect some level of questions , hard time form a few people . but if it is the norm I would probably open carry also 

Wisconsin is and always has been an open carry state , we just got CC 11/1/2011

I generally conceal since it became an option I didn't carry very much before CC became an option there were a number of polcie departments that didn't like it and liked to loose money putting people through trials for open carrying , also until 2011 it was Illegal to have a loaded gun in your vehicle except on your own property, so it was a real pain to load and unload some thing you had to do if you open carried.
I will say a lot of people Illegally concealed , I know a few did on body cc , I think a lot more did in their vehicle when I worked as a mechanic in the mid 90s I saw a lot of weapons tucked inside cars , only a few guns , but that was just what I could see without moving anything or opening any glove boxes or consoles.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Just know not to ask folks if they are cow'd. I joke that one of the main reasons we can't have a known store chain is the open carry issue...out Side of the of here there are signs at all the national type joints.....which yt?makes me wonder....if at some point the the meth heads will figure things have that the parking lot of national chain stores and fast food equals an unguarded glass gun store...Locked or not one rock opens it...
Note it's twenty plus miles to the nearest National chain.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I can't think of a chain store in our area that has a sign , they must be 5x7 inches and prominently displayed at very possible entrance to a building or portion of a building that wishes to prohibit the carry of firearms. chains stores like to not loose customers to their policies , in the 4 years since we got CC I think with the exception of clinics/hospitals , libraries and city county buildings ,most of the no guns signs in private or chain businesses that went up have come down money talks. most stores never even put them up but maybe 5% did and now most of those are down also.

the clinic and the hospital have signs up as does the library but not much else even city hall is open to guns the next city over to the east posts all their buildings including the out houses in the parks but they can't keep you from carrying in the park 

If you conceal then they have know way of knowing if you have entered a posted out house Illegally and therefor can not issue you a hundred dollar citation for doing so.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Fred Meyers, 
McDonald's
Arby
Safeway

They have the signs out

I see those signs and I think stupid.

I feel in talking to the open carry...cause I thank them and that often leads to others pointing out their gun or commenting that they too have one. Since out community so rural and we have so many run ins with brown bears ....that fish in game can't find to count.... darn it it must be just one bad bear. Guns truly are carried more due to the wildlife.

We do have a lot of gun thefts. People leave for the winter and leave them locked in their homes...

I wonder if it would be better to see if for a fee they could be stored at say the fire house.. it is manned 24-7 it would aid in the druggies from getting them.

One house broken into.... had 17 guns....and bricks of different ammo stolen.... it's believed and talked that that's why this spring we have had troopers camping out and they are finding the druggies weekly... five in the last two weeks..there is only 777 living here year round. Two a few weeks ago.... the troopers are active here....to the point locals have had to adjust to what the speed limits are.


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## Wild_Bill (Aug 4, 2014)

Baltimore I would guess is a made for tv event. Don't get me wrong I believe that what happened is real. Just exploited by the PTB! I was hauling government equipment when Katrina hit. I literally drove a truck loaded with military equipment within a half mile of the superdome not more then 3 days after the hurricane hit. No flood..no trace of water. It was obvious that water had never got to where I was. Nor was any water visible as far as I could see in the direction of the dome! So at most people would only have to traverse maybe 1/4 mi of flood water to get out. Keep in mind I drove in from Washington so no routes were blocked on my route. Of course watching tv before hand I would never believe this. It appeared that New Orleans was a vast wasteland that no one could get out of.

My point being that the media makes things look worse then they are for ratings.

I'll stick with my location. Most of us around here are labeled hillbillys, or backward, and that's just fine with me!


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## Woolieface (Feb 17, 2015)

Wonder why there's always someone caught wearing a CRAFT logo ( http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/nTE/Xdj/nTEXdjyzc.jpeg ) when these things happen?

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/nodisinfoanalyisbalt-333-625x240.png


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

kasilofhome said:


> Fred Meyers,
> McDonald's
> Arby
> Safeway
> ...


McDonalds and Arbys we have and no sign so it is not a national thing, don't know what a fred meyers is , and we don't have a safeway 

Wisconsin carry a state carry activism group has a card that you can have printed on a business card , pass them out to friends and make sure you walk in to the store hand them a card let them know you were going to bring the hole family in to eat but they don't allow guns and you don't support gun anti gun anti carry establishments so you wanted to let them know they have lost your business till they loose the sign and move on , you get 10-20% of their already gun carrying customers to stay away a month or two and that sign may very well come down.

a friend gave me a handful of these cards I carry a few but can't even find a place I go besides the library or park outhouse that has a sign and they just don't care.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

I see the welfare office in baltamore did not get burned down


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I would beg those people holding me at gunpoint, forcing me to enter such an urban zone, to let me go... the most time I want to deal with a metro/large city is, the time it takes to race through it. CCW might not be allowed, but, there'd be some firepower (shall we say) in the truck, regardless of locale...


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## JustMe2 (Mar 8, 2011)

Wild_Bill said:


> My point being that the media makes things look worse then they are for ratings.


Normally I would agree with you, but not in this instance. I didn't watch national media, so I couldn't tell you what they were reporting, but the local media didn't report on half of what was really going on. Hubby is a city ff, so our girls and I didn't see him for almost a whole week, but we had our BOBS ready to go.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Sorry ....I do not like riots as it just a powered keg ready to go.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Back in my college days, I was driving a friend to Newark, NJ for a job interview. This was in the 90s around time of some unrest.

While I waited for her downstairs, I decided to stop for a slice of pizza and a coke. Halfway through eating, the shop owner chased everyone out, closed the security gate and locked the doors.

As I wondered why, I turned to look down the street to see an angry mob headed my way!

I hopped into my car and backed it into an alley facing out and I skrunched down in my seat to peek thru my steering wheel.

I saw the crowd run past the alley as some smoke canisters were being tossed at them. 

Then I saw some cops on foot and on horseback chasing them.

In a few minutes, I got out and peered around the corner to see if the coast was clear. There was some broken glass and a few flyers and signs on the ground and burned up smoke cans. Otherwise, the street was deserted.

Got back in the car and parked across the street pointed away from where the crowd went - planning for a quick escape.

My friend came down and asked "Why did you move the car?"

I told her to get in. We gotta get outta here fast! We were outside the city limits in 5 minutes.


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