# First time with an LGD



## RRT Harlies (Apr 27, 2008)

I'm planning on picking up a pup in the next week or so to raise up for LGD duty. He'll only be 8 weeks old, and I'm aware that it'll be quite a while before he's an effective guard. I have rabbits and chickens and mainly want him to keep the strays away. My property does not have a fence, but there are approximately 10-15 acres around our house. Our closest neighbor is maybe 1/4 mile away, and there is a pond/stream and thicket between us (unless you go up the driveway and around...). We sit way off the main road, so that's not a problem, but there are several (incredibly stupid) dogs on our road, including a poorly trained pitbull. The pup WILL be neutered though, lord knows we don't need any more homeless dogs around here. I can't chain him as my birds are free-range and that just wouldn't work.

Am I going to end up having trouble keeping him from roaming? Will he stay close to the house, the rabbitry, and the chickens (they don't wander far)? I know LGDs do roam a bit when they patrol, but will he respect invisible boundaries with ample training?

I rarely have visitors at my house (aside from the neighbor kids coming over to play with my son), but the meter reader for the electric company comes out once a month. I'm not always home when he comes, what are the chances of the pup eating him...? lol


----------



## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

My understanding is that not all LGD are the same. My friends 2 yr old female pyr was roaming ALLOT one night left my friends house at around midnight about 3 miles down the road I saw a flash of white, gave my friend a call "is your LGD missing?" yup...
but then again she has since trained that one to an inground containment and it worked.
IMO in answer to your question(s)
"Am I going to end up having trouble keeping him from roaming? Will he stay close to the house, the rabbitry, and the chickens (they don't wander far)? I know LGDs do roam a bit when they patrol, but will he respect invisible boundaries with ample training? 
I rarely have visitors at my house (aside from the neighbor kids coming over to play with my son), but the meter reader for the electric company comes out once a month. I'm not always home when he comes, what are the chances of the pup eating him...? lol 
"

yes, probable not, not without allot of training and time. Oh now that could be a problem or maybe not.
My LGD shies away from strangers for the most part but keeps an eye on them.


----------



## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

RRT Harlies said:


> My property does not have a fence, but there are approximately 10-15 acres around our house. Our closest neighbor is maybe 1/4 mile away, and there is a pond/stream and thicket between us (unless you go up the driveway and around...). We sit way off the main road, so that's not a problem, but there are several (incredibly stupid) dogs on our road, including a poorly trained pitbull. The pup WILL be neutered though, lord knows we don't need any more homeless dogs around here. I can't chain him as my birds are free-range and that just wouldn't work.
> 
> Am I going to end up having trouble keeping him from roaming? Will he stay close to the house, the rabbitry, and the chickens (they don't wander far)? I know LGDs do roam a bit when they patrol, but will he respect invisible boundaries with ample training?
> 
> I rarely have visitors at my house (aside from the neighbor kids coming over to play with my son), but the meter reader for the electric company comes out once a month. I'm not always home when he comes, what are the chances of the pup eating him...? lol


Based on many of the things you have described here I would not place a LGD pup with you if this was my litter. I realize that lots of people have them on unfenced property, but in general I do not think it is a good idea. If your dog happens to be one of the typs that stays put, great, if not you have trouble. My original ASD felt if she could see it it was her's to guard. This meant that a neighbor's place, if visable from where she was fenced in to she would bark at them anytime they were outside (mowing the lawn, getting the mail, etc.). 

If you get one that is very guardy and some idiot comes onto the dogs "turf" and doesn't believe that the dog is serious about them leaving and continues to advance you will have a potential lawsuit on your hands when the dog bites someone.

The meter reader is going to be most likely viewed in a negative way as will anyone else who just comes once a month or less. My dogs barked at the garbage guy every Friday for 10 years, they never felt that this was an ok thing. At our current location we have a fellow who parks within visual distance of our property and takes a short hike down the hill (neighbors property) to look at a bat colony ever week on Thursday AM. We have lived here for 10 months now and he is all most as much a threat in their opinion now as he was when we first moved in. They don't bark as much, but they still bark. If they were loose there would be a big problem.

BTW the dog might be fine with the neighbor kids coming to play or it might not. No way of really telling in advance, but it might be that those who come a lot from early on will be fine and those who become friends with your kid(s) say a couple of years from now might be considered intruders and the dog will react badly. 

I have placed two litters of LGD pups in the past 2 1/2 years and I could have sold all of them in short order to people who had similar situations to you and I chose not to. I still have one boy from the ASD/Kuv litter because every person that called or emailed seemed to think that the dog would some how magically know that this 5 acre parcel is the one that the owner paid taxes on and somehow stay there. They are smart, just not that smart.

Not trying to be a downer, but you need to go into this with your eyes open to the problems that could arise in your situation. Way too many LGD end up in rescue or worse each year because of people not understanding what it takes to own one effectively and safely.


----------



## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

you really need a fence boundry both to help keep YOUR stuff in and OTHER stuff OUT, your going to end up with more issues with out a fence, the pup is going to need more training, more supervision, and depending on the breed may not stay home, 

fence your property for everyones safty,


----------



## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

RRT Harlies said:


> but there are several (incredibly stupid) dogs on our road, including a poorly trained pitbull. I can't chain him as my birds are free-range and that just wouldn't work.
> 
> Am I going to end up having trouble keeping him from roaming? Will he stay close to the house, the rabbitry, and the chickens (they don't wander far)? I know LGDs do roam a bit when they patrol, but will he respect invisible boundaries with ample training?
> 
> I rarely have visitors at my house (aside from the neighbor kids coming over to play with my son), but the meter reader for the electric company comes out once a month. I'm not always home when he comes, what are the chances of the pup eating him...? lol


I know others have said it, but from another LGD owner in yrs past, put up a good, solid fence NOW. The fence isn't just to keep him in, though that is a HUGE issue with pretty much all LGDs. The fence is just as much to keep other things OUT! Your 8, 12, 16, 24 wk old pup will be no match for the pitbull or any other larger animal (coyote, raccoon) that comes to your house for the numerous free meals you have there. The LGD should be one of a number of layers of protection, the fence being the first. If you chain him, you'll increase the chances that he becomes a target for other predators. The chances of him eating the meter reader will depend both on his breeding, on unknown genetic characteristics and on how well you socialize him.


----------



## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

Oregon Julie said:


> Not trying to be a downer, but you need to go into this with your eyes open to the problems that could arise in your situation. Way too many LGD end up in rescue or worse each year because of people not understanding what it takes to own one effectively and safely.


Well put. I lived with a number of those same LGDs that started off life in the wrong place. Below is a link to a great story about what can happen with a beginner with LGDs. 

http://www.lgd.org/stories/DaemonIntro.htm


----------



## Wolf Flower (Dec 21, 2005)

RRT Harlies said:


> Am I going to end up having trouble keeping him from roaming? Will he stay close to the house, the rabbitry, and the chickens (they don't wander far)? I know LGDs do roam a bit when they patrol, but will he respect invisible boundaries with ample training?


Yes, no, and no.



> I rarely have visitors at my house (aside from the neighbor kids coming over to play with my son), but the meter reader for the electric company comes out once a month. I'm not always home when he comes, what are the chances of the pup eating him...? lol


If the pup gets acquainted with the meter reader while he is young, and it's always the same guy, I doubt you'd have a problem with him eating the meter reader.

But that is the least of your worries. LGDs are notorious for roaming, and they assume any space that is open and accessible to them is theirs. You really need a fence. Sometimes the "invisible fence" works, sometimes it doesn't, but it certainly doesn't keep other animals OUT. While your pup is young and vulnerable, other dogs coming around will do one of two things: either injure him, or lure him into their roaming ways.

I don't think you should get an LGD until you have a fence. And if you have a fence, you may not even need an LGD.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

An electric fence is going to be your best protection If you set up electric fencing, fence around the rabbits, and fence again around the chicken area, this will keep critters out, as long as you keep a charge on it. Chickens will go home to roost before the sun sets. Most predators that take chickens will come out at night, so as long as they are behind electric at night, they are safe. Wandering dogs are another matter because they will come around during the day. If dogs are a problem, you will need to set up a rotational pasture system for your birds, keeping them enclosed, but moving them around to fresh ground. You may be able to leave them out during the day to be really free range. They won't go far.

As for a dog, any dog that will stay close to home and run off critters will be a good LGD for you. A rough coated collie (old fashion Lassie type), or even a more aggressive dog. Keeping close to home is key to protecting chickens as they aren't likely to wander far. An LGD needs a much larger territory than a chicken.


----------



## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

KSALguy said:


> you really need a fence boundry both to help keep YOUR stuff in and OTHER stuff OUT, your going to end up with more issues with out a fence, the pup is going to need more training, more supervision, and depending on the breed may not stay home,
> 
> fence your property for everyones safty,



great advice here.

they will roam, they will bark all night chasing everything that comes throught the yard, they will steal all the stuff off the neighbors porch and bring it home, they will tear into all garbage the neighbors have out, they will cause an uproar in the neighbor hood with other dogs, they will be a flat out nusance. ask me how i know...

fence him in,


----------



## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

most LGD are nocturnal too. sleep during the day, they arent at their best while sleeping, other dogs, and natural predators will learn you dogs sleep patterns and extort them.....just something to keep in mind.


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

You got an LGD to protect your livestock against 'roaming' dogs. So why would you think it is ok for your dog to roam? Please fence him in and train him to work with your animals. It takes time.

Dead Rabbit. Our LGD sleeps mostly during the day too, but as with most LGD's he is right there with the livestock. Any sound, anything, and he is awake and alert in an instant. 

Getting the right LGD. Training. Protecting them as in fencing them in to stop 'them' from getting shot by other farmers is all necessary.

It takes time to train an LGD. But once you have, you will have a dog that only barks when there is danger. A dog that stays with the livestock. A dog that is loyal and trustworthy and worth their weight in gold.


----------



## HilltopDaisy (Feb 26, 2003)

RRT Harlies said:


> I'm planning on picking up a pup in the next week or so to raise up for LGD duty. He'll only be 8 weeks old, and I'm aware that it'll be quite a while before he's an effective guard. I have rabbits and chickens and mainly want him to keep the strays away. My property does not have a fence, but there are approximately 10-15 acres around our house. Our closest neighbor is maybe 1/4 mile away, and there is a pond/stream and thicket between us (unless you go up the driveway and around...). We sit way off the main road, so that's not a problem, but there are several (incredibly stupid) dogs on our road, including a poorly trained pitbull. The pup WILL be neutered though, lord knows we don't need any more homeless dogs around here. I can't chain him as my birds are free-range and that just wouldn't work.
> 
> Am I going to end up having trouble keeping him from roaming? Will he stay close to the house, the rabbitry, and the chickens (they don't wander far)? I know LGDs do roam a bit when they patrol, but will he respect invisible boundaries with ample training?
> 
> I rarely have visitors at my house (aside from the neighbor kids coming over to play with my son), but the meter reader for the electric company comes out once a month. I'm not always home when he comes, what are the chances of the pup eating him...? lol


OK, read your post and covered my face and yelled "NOOOO".

If you have not had the experience of a LGD, you cannot imagine what lies ahead. Just sayin'....

There is a HUGE learning curve. We're talking dead (insert your critter here).


----------



## HilltopDaisy (Feb 26, 2003)

Our Little Farm said:


> You got an LGD to protect your livestock against 'roaming' dogs. So why would you think it is ok for your dog to roam? Please fence him in and train him to work with your animals. It takes time.
> 
> Dead Rabbit. Our LGD sleeps mostly during the day too, but as with most LGD's he is right there with the livestock. Any sound, anything, and he is awake and alert in an instant.
> 
> ...


OLF, my experience is that it takes 3 years to get the LGD's to really understand what their role is.

My dogs still want to chase trucks, but not cars. 

They finally listen to me, 95% of the time, but it's been ten times more work than I expected.

Wanted to add, that I agree with fencing the dog! Even if you start with a 25' by 25' area, afterall, he's a puppy, right?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

What do you call an LGD that's NOT fenced in?




*GONE!*

Here's some great advice on raising LGD's:

http://www.bountifulfarm.com/lgd_seminar.htm


----------



## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> What do you call an LGD that's NOT fenced in?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Amen to that. Truer words have never been spoken when it comes to LGD"S. 

No reponse from the OP, wonder what ended up happening. There was a lot of good advice on this thread, hope it was considered for the sake of the dog.


----------



## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

Our Little Farm said:


> You got an LGD to protect your livestock against 'roaming' dogs. So why would you think it is ok for your dog to roam? Please fence him in and train him to work with your animals. It takes time.
> 
> Dead Rabbit. Our LGD sleeps mostly during the day too, but as with most LGD's he is right there with the livestock. Any sound, anything, and he is awake and alert in an instant.
> 
> ...


i had a fox this yr that would use guerrilla style techniques to grab up free ranging fowl during the day. be at the edge of the brush line, run out grab a young rooster/pullet and take off. i saw it happen, and then another time this summer i was standing at the edge of the fence, and watched probably same fox creep in, during the day, to edge of fence line, he eventually saw me and took off. 

techniques like this and no way a dog will ever get him. first time ive seen a fox hunt like this. fortuantly for me, the fox seemed to just head out to other places,,,just disappeared....or the dog got him during the night??


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

I guess it depends on the kind of LGD you have and training. 

Wise words Hilltopdaisy and great site Bearfootfarm.

If you are going to get an LGD. Spend the time traiining them well. Protect them and care for them by fencing them in and training them, teach them their boundairies.

I can't bear to hear of people who have a dog that roams and 'blames' it on the dog.


----------



## simplepeace (Oct 29, 2005)

www.LGD.org
Because I also rarely have visitors, I have learned the hard way that they really need to be socialized as a pup for this: 

I rarely have visitors at my house (aside from the neighbor kids coming over to play with my son), but the meter reader for the electric company comes out once a month. I'm not always home when he comes, what are the chances of the pup eating him...? lol 

My LGD will only allow 2 people to come to the house when I am gone (to petsit)! It took a long time before he would accept the 2nd person. It has really been akward, and there have been times I couldn't go somewhere because of it. If I had it to do over again I would make sure I had a different person coming every week at minimum. It is not fun, or funny AT ALL to have a dog SO protective in certain situations. 
And he WILL bite them if they don't stop when he barks to warn them to stop. Amazing how many people keep coming after reading the signs and seeing the 100 lb dog barking... 
My poultry and I are absolutely protected, but I constantly worry about strangers who don't understand what BEWARE of DOG means.


----------



## longshadowfarms (Nov 27, 2002)

Dead Rabbit said:


> i had a fox this yr that would use guerrilla style techniques to grab up free ranging fowl during the day. be at the edge of the brush line, run out grab a young rooster/pullet and take off. i saw it happen, and then another time this summer i was standing at the edge of the fence, and watched probably same fox creep in, during the day, to edge of fence line, he eventually saw me and took off.
> 
> techniques like this and no way a dog will ever get him. first time ive seen a fox hunt like this. fortuantly for me, the fox seemed to just head out to other places,,,just disappeared....or the dog got him during the night??





Dead Rabbit said:


> most LGD are nocturnal too. sleep during the day, they arent at their best while sleeping, other dogs, and natural predators will learn you dogs sleep patterns and extort them.....just something to keep in mind.


Have you ever had an LGD? Yes, they are mostly nocturnal, but so are most predators. They sleep right in with their charges and are VERY aware, even when they are "sleeping." They also aren't really there to have to act for the most part. They will act if they need to, but they are primarily a deterrent. I can't think of any time our LGDs ever had to get into a physical altercation with a predator but their very presence was enough to keep us from having any losses to predators in the years that we had birds and LGDs. Their barking all night long is a warning to any and all that they are on duty. It works.


----------



## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

yes i have a GP as we speak. but ive never had a fox hunt like this, of the folks ive talked to, theyve never known one to do this either, id have a hard time believing it, if i didnt actually see it myself, and i was about 50 ft from the fox myself when he hit. he knew i was there, he was that confident and brazen. and the dog was just on the other side of the barn...i saw the fox hit, hollared for my dog, she came around and followed my pointing till she saw the fox heading into the brush and took chase, but in 90 degree weather, she couldnt maintain the chase long.

both my presence and the dogs presence mattered not to this fox.


----------



## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

How old is your GP Dead Rabbit?


----------



## Dead Rabbit (Oct 30, 2010)

3 yrs old in January


----------



## sticky_burr (Dec 10, 2010)

longshadowfarms said:


> Well put. I lived with a number of those same LGDs that started off life in the wrong place. Below is a link to a great story about what can happen with a beginner with LGDs.
> 
> http://www.lgd.org/stories/DaemonIntro.htm


its funny people expect puppies to know what to do. and it learns all these fun games.

i would not leave a pup for long times unattended with 'toys'. i have been thinking starting the 'pups' 4-6 months sounds good during the winter at the bar. when only the breeding animals are left ie a few turkeys penned up. a couple cows ducks and the like... probally crate him or add fencing to a stall so that they are around them but not free range of the area at first. make the rounds with him and claim the animals and area. then give him a good run or pull, some reason i want to cart train them lol.. hang out in the hay loft or green house with a 'sportsman' type radio collar(mile + range) probally on my laptop and coffee lol.. and watch if they fixate on animals, in a perceived way, give them a vibrate on the collar or play with/chase/bite they will get a vibe/shock 
for months of spring and thru the winter i wouldnt leave them alone for long or with too much exess energy hopefully they will be more relaible by buzy spring planting season.. at 10-12 months old and having the winter to learn some and be ok to leave out amongst the critters/ to roam

i dont know if its a good plan if they will catch on that if i try for the animals bad things happen .. time will tell


----------



## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

I raise LGDs of all kinds and won't sell pups to unfenced property owners, period. 

Will the pup eat someone? Maybe. Maybe not. That's going to be the big risk you are taking with no containment in place. Hopefully, your lawyer is better than their's when the family comes after you in a lawsuit.

Will he take off even after neutering after a ***** in heat? You bet.

Sorry to sound harsh. You sound totally underprepared for what is ahead of you. I tend to lean towards the worst case scenarios, because then I'm not shocked when they come along, and they do....come along. 

And what if a coyote pack comes in and eats your pup at 12 weeks old when he can't defend himself? Well, there's an expensive lesson you've hopefully learned from.

Get some fence up before you get that pup and realize this is not just a buy him and drop him out there and walk away and it's all good kind of 'thing' you are getting into. LGD's are a great BIG responsibility. Please do the pup a favor and don't get it until you are better prepared!


----------

