# Marking harness and crayons?



## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Anybody ever use one? 

I ask because next year, I plan on cycling does with PG600 and CIDRs to go itno heat in October so that kids are born first week of March (my spring break from classes) like I did this year. That worked well for me, for the most part. Puts *MOST* of my kids due early in the year. 

This year I put off breeding 2 doelings, and had one AI doe not take. (she preg tested negative and did have a natural heat, but I didn't breed her because she'd have been due during school). I Used CIDRs/PG600 in all 3 so that they'd kid in May after class was out for summer and I got poor results. The doelings had weird heats (flagging, discharge, but scared of the buck and wouldn't stand so I force bred them) which occured later than normal after pulling CIDRs. The open AI doe had no heat whatsoever. The doelings recycled naturally and were bred with no forced breeding, normal heat signs, stood for buck etc. The AI recipient didn't cycle, so I used Lute/PG600, still no discernible heat. My father said she *might* have been in heat... but he is bad at spotting them, lol. He had her housed with the buck for most of the day just in case. 

After breeding for March kiddings next year, I was considering putting my boer buck in the doe pen in December as a 'clean up' buck. This would put kids born in May. Probably keep him there until mid-Jan. 

Because my dad is largely inept at spotting heats and no matter how often I tell him how important general OBSERVATION of behavior is *SO SO* important in raising livestock, he just doesn't get it. He also doesn't get the importance of checking does for heat EVERY DAY. Anything I can do to make it easier on him, would be great. 

If I tell him to look for a doe that suddenly has her entire back/rear end covered in funky colors, that would make it infinetely easier on me to have duedates on them and I could be pretty sure dad would notice. LOL. 

Any thoughts on using them? Suggestions?


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

One of the Boer folks near here uses them. It is interesting to drive to town and see a heard of Boers with rainbow butts!

They are pretty obvious, even from the road in a truck. My DFD said, "Mom, why do those goats have punk rock dye?"


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

I use a marking harness with my ram, but since I don't have a second one, I just paint the buck's chest with the crayon and it works just as well. I have to reapply it every few days as needed, but it is fairly easy to do. If you don't want to buy the marking crayons, livestock paint sticks work well too. I love having breeding dates..couldn't imagine not knowing when to expect kids/lambs!


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

Hmm using livestock paint or a crayon to paint the chest might be good to prevent them hooking the harness with their horns - some of the boer does are horned. 

And I might have some dairies that get painted butts too - anybody that isn't bred in March will probably just get covered by the boer too. I'm not moving a ton of boer does to the buck pen to live with waylon in the tiny buck house, and I'm not moving the dairies there even though there's less of 'em, because then we have to walk the dairies all the way across the property to the milkroom 2x per day. 

I just worry my dad won't reapply the paint on a regular basis. How often should it be applied? Few times a week?


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## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

Kinda ot but how do you tell if a doe is in heat?


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## macly (Nov 25, 2011)

I used a marking harness on my sheep flock this year. It is extremely obvious on the lighter colored girls. Depending on your colors, your Dad still might need to be looking closely on darker colored does. We have black sheep (as well as white) and with a close inspection I could see the colors show up on the darker fleeces, but I wouldn't be able to tell from afar. After 17 days, change the color of the crayon and see if any of the does come up rebred. 

After this year, I will always use one and will likely buy a second for the goats. We used a ram lamb this year who turned out to be sterile/immature. All of my ewes were remarked, then remarked again in their third heat cycle despite standing for the ram with direct contact every time. So between exact breeding dates and detection if there is a problem with the male, I'm sold on s harness.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

GREAT idea changing the crayon color every 17 days! 

I wonder if colors like orange and yellow wouldn't work better on dark girls? Instead of like blue or green?


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

bknthesdle said:


> Kinda ot but how do you tell if a doe is in heat?


It varies slightly from animal to animal but generally: 

Does become more vocal - some hum (mmmm mmmm mmmm -snort! - mmm mmm mmmmm!) and some HOLLER!

You will see does allowing other does to mount them, or sometimes the doe in heat is the one mounting others.

She will flag her tail a lot, especially when wethers or other does are 'acting bucky' towards her

My wethers flirt with and protect the doe from other 'competition' (don't tell them they're fixed! )

If there is a buck nearby (like on the other side of the fence) the doe will be standing RIGHT THERE, letting the buck give her kisses, snort on her face, kick her in the side - and generally be obnoxious that a doe not in heat would NOT tolerate for a fraction of a second.  

Usually the vulva will be a little reddened and usually they'll also have a little discharge as well. 

When using a marking harness, it's when their hindquarters turn bright colors... LOL.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

bknthesdle said:


> Kinda ot but how do you tell if a doe is in heat?


It varies slightly from animal to animal but generally: 

Does become more vocal - some hum (mmmm mmmm mmmm -snort! - mmm mmm mmmmm!) and some HOLLER!

You will see does allowing other does to mount them, or sometimes the doe in heat is the one mounting others.

She will flag her tail a lot, especially when wethers or other does are 'acting bucky' towards her

My wethers flirt with and protect the doe from other 'competition' (don't tell them they're fixed! )

If there is a buck nearby (like on the other side of the fence) the doe will be standing RIGHT THERE, letting the buck give her kisses, snort on her face, kick her in the side - and generally be obnoxious that a doe not in heat would NOT tolerate for a fraction of a second.  

Usually the vulva will be a little reddened and usually they'll also have a little discharge as well. 

When using a marking harness, it's when their hindquarters turn bright colors... LOL.


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## Aimee (Nov 8, 2010)

where do you buy these crayons? Anyone have a link?


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## macly (Nov 25, 2011)

I used red and then yellow. I ordered my harness and crayons from Jeffers, and they're not that expensive. Premier also sells them, I'm sure there are others. I ordered late in the season so the colors were limited. Red was hysterical is looked like a blood bath out there. No so much on the girls, but the ram's chest was covered in red from the crayon. Red shower up well for me, yellow was a little harder on the black woollies but still detectable.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

http://www.jefferspet.com/nylon-marking-harness/camid/LIV/cp/SP-R1/

harness


http://www.jefferspet.com/harness-crayons/camid/LIV/cp/0028136/

Crayons

I think I'm going to go with blue, red, or green crayon colors...  

how long do crayons last? Would 2 crayons (2 different colors) last the entire time, or do they go 'quick' with use? 

I love this forum.


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## Aimee (Nov 8, 2010)

I love this forum too. I read every day but rarely post...

This idea would be awesome to implement.


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## macly (Nov 25, 2011)

Aimee I'm the same, read often but barely post. Lots of information for me to quickly browse but I don't really have the time to comment and post.

I had six ewes the ram used the harness on. After the first heat cycle the crayon was about half used, but he also often brushed it against some cross bracing inside their portable enclosure. The second color was mostly used up because I left it on for a few heat cycles when it was obvious all the ewes were continuing to cycle. Even after 17-18 days, the rump color faded enough that I could tell when they were remarked.

One tough thing that might happen is the crayon will get covered in dirt, pebbles etc. depending on where your herd is housed. The first two rounds that didn't happen to me as pastures were still growing and I was rotating (i.e. they were on fresh grass) but by the end the flock was moved back to winter housing on more of a dry lot situation. When I took that crayon off it was covered with little bits of debris and I don't think it would have continued to mark. So perhaps checking the crayon every few days to make sure it's still exposed if you're in a dry lot situation.

On the colors, green was my second choice but it was sold out when I purchased 

Hope this helps!


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

mygoat said:


> GREAT idea changing the crayon color every 17 days!
> 
> I wonder if colors like orange and yellow wouldn't work better on dark girls? Instead of like blue or green?


 
When I worked with the larger sheep flock, we used red first, then green, then blue (changed every 17 days for sheep). By the time we got to blue, most all of the ewes were bred. Red first, because it shows up best, then green because it shows well over the red (if an animal gets remarked). The blue showed up pretty well over the green, but we rarely used it. Yellow and orange would work well on darker colored girls. 

There are different hardnesses (is that a word) of the crayons too, depending on the weather. For colder temps, you want a soft crayon so it doesnt' freeze and get hard to mark. For hot temps, you want a harder crayon that won't melt. 

It depends on the ram (or buck), but I'd say check the crayon or chest (if you're just painting the chest) every few days to see if it needs replacing. There's also Raddle powder, that you mix and apply on the chest. I've never used it, but I'd imagine it'd be really messy and you'd need to reapply it pretty often. Also, the Raddle isn't always scourable, according to the website. 

I did try Tempra paints once, mixed with Crisco and it didn't work very well, so I just stick with the crayons.


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## DebnKirk (Jul 5, 2011)

We made our own raddle powder from powdered chalk (from Lowe's) and cheap vegetable oil. Kept a glove in a bucket, and reapplied at feeding time. You can change colors same as crayons by mixing a new batch or by adding a second color. Easy, cheap, and no harness issues nor crayon temperature hassle.


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