# Questions re Retort "Canning" for Smoked Salmon



## bluewater (May 31, 2013)

Hi all,

I'm interested in learning from those of you who have tried canning in retort bags. I would like to hear about your experiences and would appreciate some productive feedback about my first time with this. In the canner at the moment are 10 retort packages of smoked salmon (about 2.5 fish). So far, the canner is behaving just fine except for two hiccups that, in hindsight, I could have prevented. And I think one could result in fails. This first round is exploratory!

I've researched this a lot--there is a ton to read on the subject--seen a lot of anecdotal evidence and feel comfortable giving this a try. I have 20 large red salmon that must be processed quickly and in such a way that it doesn't require refrigeration. Our local fish processors are limited to vacuum packing or straight up canning in jars, or else they ship it out to have it retort processed and returned. I've canned a lot of food in jars already, but given the size of my canner (an All-American 910, the smallest one that holds only 4 quart jars or 5 pints stacked with 5 half pints) and the weight in glass I've already processed, I wanted to try retort canning to have less mass to store. Weight is the main issue, as is not having a ton of empty jars on hand after the food is eaten. So after a lot of research, I bought 100 quart-sized retort pouches (not the same as mylar bags) and the Optimum Hot Jaw Heat Sealer from these people.

Following the general consensus about how to approach this, I did the following:


packaged no more than a half of one fillet (which had been smoked and then refrigerated because I ran out of time) in each bag;
because the salmon pieces were too large to fit through a canning funnel, I just slid them in and then wiped the mouth of the bag clean with vinegar;
I pressed out excess air and sealed the bag as prescribed for 3 seconds with the sealer. It gave a nice crimp (though I wish it was a bit wider than the bag, because it was a challenge to be very precise when the widths of bag and sealer are so close); 
I loaded 10 bags into the canner, not jammed in there but not loose either (apparently this is because once done, they must cool without room to expand too much);
Began processing as per regular canning procedures.

So that's where I am. The hiccups I mentioned above are:

The bags extended a bit too much in to the domed lid of my canner, and so they folded over. The wait for the canner to exhaust air was taking too long and I realized the tops of the bags could be blocking the vent. So I opened the canner and used scissors to snip an inch off the top of each bag.
About 30 minutes into processing, the vents sputtered and began seeping water, and this keeps happening if I go even just a tiny bit high on my pressure. I'm pretty sure I added too much water because I for some reason felt I should add more than I do with the jars. Apparently wrong! And now I'm soaking up the overflow. I'm worried too much water could cause fails.

And so a few questions for those of you who've done this:

Has anyone used this particular sealer? If so, any comments in general, or specifically about the width?
Apart from water all over the stovetop, is there any reason to be concerned about too much water in the canner?
Once the processing is done and I remove the lid and let the bags cool in place, how can you tell if a bag fails? With the jar, the lid doesn't "ping" but with the bag...?
Is there anything I haven't considered?
Regarding sterilization, is there anything special I should be doing with the bags? It would not be efficient or even very effective to wash and boil the bags. I just filled them and wiped the mouth with vinegar to ensure a good seal. Do the packages of retort bags come pre-sterilized?

That last item is the one thing that I really want addressed.

Please tell me what you've processed in retort packages, how it turned out, successes, failures, what home equipment you used, etc. Thanks in advance for sharing your experience!


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

I think I'll just stay with what I know.


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

I had not even heard of this until your post. I googled and it is a most interesting thing, thank you for sharing.

I could certainly see how this method could become very popular. No glass, no breakage, easy storage. This is very interesting!

As with most "new" things it will be met with a lot of skepticism at first and of course, many will not try it until it has become more "home proven" I suspect.

I hope there may be someone here who has experience with this. 

Perhaps on your question regarding if the pouches are sterile you could ask the supplier?


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## bluewater (May 31, 2013)

Thanks Homesteader, I appreciate your comments. I really do hope to generate more discussion. It's like anything new, people are nervous about change and this process is not so documented via extension services, so it's natural to question it. But wow, if we can apply the scientific method to retort packaging, it really is fantastic! Once the process is perfected, the only major drawback I can think of is that the packaging is not reusable (although I suppose the pouches could be washed well and used as one would a regular mylar bag, to store dry foods or household items...like batteries). And they are most likely not recyclable. Glass prevails on both of these. But when weight and fragility really matter, I really like the promise of retort packaging. 

Well I can now report back about my first attempt. What I've learned:

The bags look great, all sucked in around the food like you'd expect in MREs.
A few bags are questionable, and this is directly related to the comment I made about the sealer being too close in width to the quart bag. A query of customer service resulted in a very quick and helpful reply, and it seems I should crimp it twice across the mouth to ensure a full-width seal. I really don't know why I didn't think of this and just do it myself. And so I have a few bags that seem to have a couple millimeters of gap--though it's hard to tell!
Trimming the tops off the bags was a good idea (only necessary if you have a canner that's just a bit too short to fully accomodate the bags, like mine). Not just because it would otherwise interfere with proper venting, but I realize too that it's important to encourage steam flow all around the bags, and folded-over tops would not help.
After the bags cooled and sucked in around the food, I removed them from the canner. Here's where I'm faced with a conundrum about the ones that may not be fully sealed. Since I didn't do that double crimp across the mouth, I think there may be a few questionable bags that will just have to be eaten, or reprocessed in new bags now that I know the trick to ensure a proper seal. The problem is that I can't tell for sure which ones haven't completely sealed! None are clearly leaking. I've washed them well and still can't really tell. Apart from segregating the ones that are less tight than the others, I don't know for sure how tell. I may try submerging them in water and watching for bubbles, or...maybe the dog can tell me! In any case, I don't anticipate this to be a problem now that I know the sealing trick.

I hope people find this useful, and remain interested in productive back and forth about our varying experiences using different canners and equipment. I'm sharing the instruction sheet for anyone who may be interested.


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