# Interesting stories from my wife who works at China-mart..



## mldollins (Jun 21, 2008)

My wife took the job so we could get out of debt in a couple of years. Her whole income goes to the payment, otherwise she would not work there.

She currently works in electronics and its amazing the stories she tells me...which are recent.

A couple wanted to by little johnny video game that was 50 bucks. She swiped their CC and it was rejected ...maxed out. So they tried to buy a 15 dollar one...rejected. Then they tried to pay half and half....rejected. So the family doled out 10 bucks and attempted to put 6.09 on the CC....rejected. Dad flopped another 5 to make it 15 bucks cash and 1.09 on the CC....accepted. Apparently, that is the only money they had. As they were walking away, my wife heard them talking. Mom told dad..."what are we going to eat, there is no food at home".....

Later an older woman came in and demanded a phone exchange and said it didn't work. This was straight talk..walmarts newest cell phone venture. There was nothing wrong with the phone but my wife exchanged it anyways. Then she demanded here minutes to be transferred. Though it was not my wifes job, she actually helped her out and did the work for her. She claimed she could not afford to buy more minutes and that she was on social security...blah blah blah..... Then one of this woman's friends came up and each socialized with each other. My wife was listening to their conversation and the woman who did not have money told her friend that she had 16 pets in her home. Guess what, the next day she came back to my wife and told her it did not work. My wife never gave here options and said she would refund her for the phone. She wanted a refund for the minutes but my wife said she could not do this and mouthed off she would go somewhere else. It is doubtful she has the proper credit score for such. Interesting that my wife told me she was wearing the same clothes and she had to breathe through her nose through the whole transaction.

My point is that people do not have any concept of money and their priorities are out of whack.

This is what I asked my wife, what would happen if the food shelves were bare or their Link card(food stamp card) doesn't go through? If people cannot prioritize needs and wants when things are good, how can they when things are bad?

My wife told me that if there ever comes a time where the Link cards are empty, she would not be going to work. Sad to say that I kind of see that day coming.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

If you haven't already, go to the website www.notalwaysright.com They publish stories like your wife's about customers who are not 100% sane.

They have a whole string of them titled "So that's why we're in a recession" or something similar. Same theme - people who are broke but buying unnecessary things, etc.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

It is very interesting when you just stand and observe isn't it. 

Back in the day natural selection/no governmetal welfare would have stoped that behavoir in it's tracks.

Your wife is right about doing a NCNS @ Wally World. I would do the same.


~~ pelenaka ~~


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Exactly while we have and will have riots in the street.


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## mldollins (Jun 21, 2008)

Here is the deal. WM is the main food store in a 12 mile radius. There are a couple of mom and pop shops but thats it. It is troublesome to me to think that we have only one food supplier for such a large area.


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## house06 (Jan 4, 2007)

peoples priorities are really frightening at times. 

Every chance I get I listen to Dave Ramsey's radio show. Almost daily he tells folks in dire financial straits that the priority for money is 

1. Food
2. utilities
3. housing
4. car

AND then everything else. Seems to me to be wise words for all financial situations.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

Sadly you could fill in any store for "Wal mart" and it would be the same.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

Quote;
Every chance I get I listen to Dave Ramsey's radio show. Almost daily he tells folks in dire financial straits that the priority for money is 
1. Food
2. utilities
3. housing
4. car

AND then everything else. Seems to me to be wise words for all financial situations"

This is a lesson so many have never learned apparently, and I confess I don't understand how they were never taught, never told, and even when faced with the choice of food or a game, they can't discern which is the priority. Maybe they were worried about disappointing Johnny, maybe it was his birthday or something special that was promised him, but still, as a parent, it's more important to provide food for Johnny than the game. Children are resilient, and while they might not *fully* understand why they didn't get the game and got dinner instead, they can also get the game or whatever special treat later, when money is available. That was often what happened when I was little, as we were very poor. I didn't always get what I wanted, or what was promised exactly *when* it was promised, but my mother always explained why. In my child's mind, I may not have completely understood, but I did understand that I would get my treat later.

Maybe that's why I have always been able to discern priorities. I really feel badly for the children of people like in the opening post. Sounds like they're going to be in for some hard, hard lessons.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Cradle to grave folks, cradle to grave. We as a country and a culture took a wrong turn( or several) and now all of us are ENTITALED to our wants as well as our needs. Don't worry Unnca Sammy will find a way to take care of all of us; doesn't matter that those who work and pay for themselves are now in the minority--Unnca will find some others to tap for the cash.

I have been watching this in advertising for the last several years. Start counting the number of ads you hear daily that tell you "YOU deserve bigger,better etc etc." Doesn't matter you can't pay for it, YOU deserve it! Not your fault you ruined your credit..We can fix it because YOU deserve it!

In my own family..money woes-- but does that stop them having the latest, greatest electronics and the service contracts that go with them???.....NOPE.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

JuliaAnn said:


> This is a lesson so many have never learned apparently, and I confess I don't understand how they were never taught, never told, and even when faced with the choice of food or a game, they can't discern which is the priority.


Oh, they've been taught alright. They've been taught that the government will take care of them, as Bee said, cradle to grave. 

The scary part is, they're dumb enough to believe it or too dumb to see the danger.


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## Mr.Hogwallop (Oct 2, 2009)

I have a different opinion about people, and I don't worry about food riots or that sort of garbage.

People have been raised in the last 30 yrs to be soft, expecting to be saved, and totally faithful in the idea that someone will come to fix what's broken. So you have 3 groups of people: The under 30, who will sit and cry and shiver and wait for help, and die of starvation before they dare raise a hand to do anything risky. That's just how kids are anymore. A small % who are already thugs will go hog wild, but will be so disorganized they'll kill each other and end up in small localized thug gangs similar to what we already have in most cities.
Then ya got the old folks... they'll die off pretty fast.
Then you got us middle aged people, who grew up with a b&w Tv if any, we walked to school, we played outside. We've been dirt poor and comfortably wealthy. Most of us can live just fine right were we are with no power. My power was out for a few days last storm we had. Other than not having a way to watch tv or surf the net for kicks, I was fine. I could go for a long time with no power, as it just gives you something else to do: Adjusting your lifestyle a bit, resurrecting old skills and ways of doing stuff I used to do. Big deal. I never had an AC so... big whoop. Half the time s a kid we had no power heat or food so...been there done that, woudnt be a shock to go there again.

People like me would mind our own business and network with the other old farts around the area, to make the best of it, share some local info of the day and maybe now and then go beat the carp out of any local kids who think they can make our lives miserable. 

I'm not real sure how wed handle the few kooks armed to the teeth and willing to kill anyone who stepped on their land in their paranoid panic. We'd probably have to as a community burn them out or something. In a life where we've been tossed back into the 1920s, none of us will have the patience to deal with the antisocial kooks.

Humans are tribal by nature, we work best in groups with authority structure. When the SHTF, I bet most small towns and communities will just get tighter knit, and the lone kooks on the fringes taking pot shots at our kids in the woods wont last long.

on the upside, lone kooks collect great caches of cool stuff. The village appreciates your contribution.

I know all my neighbors. Some I dont like, Some I do. They know the neighbors I dont know. When we all go to a TWP meeting or something, we all meet and meet new folks. it's a community. We have farmers, vets, young folks, old folks, engineers, cops, firefighters, and all kinds of tradesman in between.

I like to think, that when a crisis come along, we'll all know each other enough to not shoot each other on sight because we wanna protect that case of MREs in the basement. 

Strength is in numbers. if I share what I have with 3 people, we might be hungry but, we're now 4 people. We might be in a hard spot if we share our stuff with 4 more but then, we are 8 people. ect ect. You get the picture.

I like your forums here, I've been reading some interesting stuff. But you guys really need to rethink the antisocial us vs them thinking. It's going to get you and your whole family killed one of these days.


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## JuliaAnn (Dec 7, 2004)

I know. It's just... I see it as almost an epic tragedy, the foolishness, stupidity, the choosing to allow themselves to believe the government will take care of them if/when they can no longer take care of themselves. It's immeasurably sad, because if more people would try to make good choices, to work harder, and to learn to live without new gadgets and silly, temporary entertainment, I really believe our country would be in better shape. I know that's an impossible thing to wish for, but I still do.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

There have always been people who did fun things first and then paid their bills with whatever was left over. And the poster who said that this doesn't just happen at Wal-mart was correct.


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## Mr.Hogwallop (Oct 2, 2009)

You dont have to worry about these idiots like the above in wal mart. These kind of people will die in the first week with no power. They don't have the brains or the motivation to figure out anything on their own. Your biggest worry will be what do do with their stinking corpses. Got a shovel or a backhoe?
LOL

I mean the above woman with the phone apparently has no idea what soap is. People who have no medical care and no concept of hygiene will die from simple infections and food poisoning within a month.

Relax... nature has a great way of setting itself upright when we leave it alone.

Better go buy a gal of betadine.... it'll save your life.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

To be honest with you we are not diverting money from a lot of things into arms and ammo. I think things are going to get really bad when election season gets into full swing.


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## seagullplayer (Nov 6, 2008)

Things will never change until we let people go hungry who will not provide for them self.

It is one thing to need a hand up, it is another to live on handouts.

People can do whatever they like, but they need to take responsibility for their actions.

We should have never gotten away from the "poor farms" back in the day.


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## pamda (Oct 14, 2004)

house06 said:


> peoples priorities are really frightening at times.
> 
> Every chance I get I listen to Dave Ramsey's radio show. Almost daily he tells folks in dire financial straits that the priority for money is
> 
> ...


 And actually it should be housing,food, utilities then car and in some instances car is not a need.


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2011)

mldollins said:


> My wife took the job so we could get out of debt in a couple of years. Her whole income goes to the payment, otherwise she would not work there.
> 
> She currently works in electronics and its amazing the stories she tells me...which are recent.
> 
> ...


This does not surprise me at all. I've watched it all my life.


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## Leister Square (Feb 7, 2010)

seagullplayer said:


> Things will never change until we let people go hungry who will not provide for them self.
> 
> It is one thing to need a hand up, it is another to live on handouts.
> 
> ...


Sadly this is true in many cases. I have a family member who fits into that category and it is horrible to see. But in "helping" him by giving him money, I've been doing an injustice. I just pray for the strength to stick to my guns this time. Through this, I've seen the seedier side of life and do worry about the hoardes of hungry entitled people without their methadone or other drug of choice (provided by the government I might add) when the money dries up and folks are on their own. Very Scary.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

house06 said:


> peoples priorities are really frightening at times.
> 
> Every chance I get I listen to Dave Ramsey's radio show. Almost daily he tells folks in dire financial straits that the priority for money is
> 
> ...


 I like Dave, but isn't it:

1) Food
2) Housing
3) Utilities
4) Car

Just a thought, but I can live in a house with no electricity. Knowing I don't owe the electric company money while sleeping in my car or under a bridge however doesn't appeal to me.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

bee said:


> Cradle to grave folks, cradle to grave. We as a country and a culture took a wrong turn( or several) and now all of us are ENTITALED to our wants as well as our needs. Don't worry Unnca Sammy will find a way to take care of all of us; doesn't matter that those who work and pay for themselves are now in the minority--Unnca will find some others to tap for the cash.
> 
> I have been watching this in advertising for the last several years. Start counting the number of ads you hear daily that tell you "YOU deserve bigger,better etc etc." Doesn't matter you can't pay for it, YOU deserve it! Not your fault you ruined your credit..We can fix it because YOU deserve it!
> 
> In my own family..money woes-- but does that stop them having the latest, greatest electronics and the service contracts that go with them???.....NOPE.


Yup, the first step was social security. 

How many people on this site say: "I'd never go on food stamps" and then say "You better not take away my social security, I invested in it".

It's been proved time and time again that the majority of folks on SS collect more than they paid into it.

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10003.html



> Social Security and Medicare taxes
> Social Security taxes 2010 2011
> 
> Employee
> ...


See how little it takes to earn a credit?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I agree with InvalidID. At least with a house or some type of shelter I could keep warm and secure. If that house sits on a good sized lot I can grow some of my own food. 

I never have and would never buy a video game with the last of my grocery money. That is just plain stupid. $15 worth of milk, bread, eggs and cheese would last us a few days anyway.


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## Gena (May 25, 2011)

As a fellow WM worker, for way longer than I'd like to admit, I've seen all kinds of weirdness. The people with the video game will probably hit up a food pantry or church then complain when the food is stuff like canned beans, whole chicken and day old bread. 

As to the phone lady...that is mental illness or some form of "not-quite-with-it." A lady who frequented my former store fed every cat in a mile radius I think. She left her doors open so they could go in and out. She and her husband were both on some form of government assistance, disability I believe, as they were both not intelligent enough to hold much of a job. Neither of them understood what they were doing was not the right thing. They, too, stunk to high heaven. There will always be people like that out there, and THOSE are the people we have a human duty to help and protect.

The first couple, nah, let them fall on their faces. The people who show up the first of the month (food stamp day) and load carts full of banquet dinners, pop and Doritios, then head over and gripe me out for not donating enough of their favorites to the food bank...they can fall too.


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## TNHermit (Jul 14, 2005)

Well I went to Lowes today to get some boxes. there weren't enough in the bin. It took 8 people almost an hour to get them down. Stupidity reigns supreme. these and the rest are the same people that are friendly and positive thinkers. Positive thinking to them means ignore it and let somebody else handle or get stuck with the responsibility. Be happy , Don't worry


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

[[[[.......I'm not real sure how wed handle the few kooks armed to the teeth and willing to kill anyone who stepped on their land ....]]]]

How about this solution: stay off their land and leave them alone.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Mr.Hogwallop said:


> I have a different opinion about people, and I don't worry about food riots or that sort of garbage.
> 
> People have been raised in the last 30 yrs to be soft, expecting to be saved, and totally faithful in the idea that someone will come to fix what's broken. So you have 3 groups of people: The under 30, who will sit and cry and shiver and wait for help, and die of starvation before they dare raise a hand to do anything risky. That's just how kids are anymore. A small % who are already thugs will go hog wild, but will be so disorganized they'll kill each other and end up in small localized thug gangs similar to what we already have in most cities.
> Then ya got the old folks... they'll die off pretty fast.
> ...


So which is it? Are you going to mind your own business or are you going to burn out the antisocial people and steal their cool stuff?

You're point would be much clearer if you didn't try to inflammatory for the sake of an argument.

So which is it?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Mr. Hogwallop sounds like one of my neighbors. Hope he's not. This paranoid antisocial kook is a light sleeper and a better shot.


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## hermy68 (Mar 12, 2011)

Mr.Hogwallop said:


> I have a different opinion about people, and I don't worry about food riots or that sort of garbage.
> 
> People have been raised in the last 30 yrs to be soft, expecting to be saved, and totally faithful in the idea that someone will come to fix what's broken. So you have 3 groups of people: The under 30, who will sit and cry and shiver and wait for help, and die of starvation before they dare raise a hand to do anything risky. That's just how kids are anymore. A small % who are already thugs will go hog wild, but will be so disorganized they'll kill each other and end up in small localized thug gangs similar to what we already have in most cities.
> Then ya got the old folks... they'll die off pretty fast.
> ...


MOST PEOPLE need other people and to function as a society. others do not. that is what made this country. ie... the mountain men, fur trappers, explorers ect.... People like myself and Ernie, are like those people. I could give a rats a** about the people in the cities in this scenario.

I read a post by you today on another thread bashing Ernie for wondering out loud how he would have to ultimately have to defend himself and his from somebody he might possibly know( somebody that drives by and waves, doesnt a trusted friend make.). now you just post how if someone similar was a neighbor you would consider him a kook and get together with other sheeple and burn him out... at least Ernie was planning to defend his family, what are you trying to do? become the new corrupt mayor of the jurisdiction and he would be a threat so you would have to eliminate him?.... just why are you here ?... I think you are just trying to pick a fight. if you dont like what or how we discuss things, go away!

Sorry Angie. boot me if you have to, had to get that off my chest.

Hang in there Ernie, I would welcome you as a neighbor any day!


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

No WalMart stories, but I will offer a few suppositions:

That in the event of (whatever happens) ALL of us are going to figure out in a hurry, who are trusted and who cannot. If we're lucky, we will survive that. 

I know most of my neighbors only by sight. I do have a few who would want to join forces (as it were) since we are of similar mind set-not preppers, exactly, but close. I have no doubt we will end up with a patrolled area because anything else will be suicide for us all.....we are just a bit too far apart, just a bit too many trees and so on. Most of us are on 1 to 5 acre lots, with heavy trees. It would take at least five people to cover this property alone....and for long term SHTF, I probably have the best property in the immediate neighborhood (greenhouses, barns, garden, etc). 

That said, there are family members who are going to run off at gun point for valid reasons, and other casual friends I would welcome with open arms. Perhaps I am not as skeptical as some of you, but I think the reality will be different with each of us. JMO.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

For those who believe there won't be trouble from those now depending on the government to help them when everything falls apart, don't you remember how bad it got in New Orleans after Katrina? Sorry, but when people no longer have food for themselves and their kids many will become dangerous. I do agree that it would be a benefit to know your neighbors and find those who have the same mind set as you do. Come up with a plan on how to protect your families and property.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

I like Mr. Hogwallop's posts. I agree with a lot of what he said. He sounds like a sensible person that I wouldn't mind having as a neighbour if TSHTF. Maybe a bit abrasive at times but no more so than a lot of other people on the board. Some anti-social lone wolf type of tinfoil people on here might not like to hear what he has to say because of the way it reflects on their own paranoid idiosyncracies but Mr. Hogwallop's posts are common sense and more suited to sociable people who believe in neighbourhoods and communities coordinating and working together to help each other out. 

I think that communities should be working together to ensure the safety of the community as a whole, and I also think the paranoid lone wolf kooks are the ones who will cause the most trouble for communities and for their own selves. Those are the ones who will alienate themselves so much from others that they will be shunned and turned away by society, demonized when a time comes that they most need help from their community. MH was right when he said that people like that will probably get burned out by their communities. It will just be history repeating itself. There needs to be a balance of caution, good sense and community organization with people working together and everyone know who their neighbour is and what they're capable of.

.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Suggesting that people who prefer to keep to themselves should be "burned out" and everything they own should be stolen? You agree with that?

I agree that some people are social types who can't get along without others. There are also those of us who don't trust people and who are very wary of strangers who might decide to "burn us out". 

People like you and Mr. H saying things like that makes us the way we are.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

Sonshine said:


> For those who believe there won't be trouble from those now depending on the government to help them when everything falls apart, don't you remember how bad it got in New Orleans after Katrina? Sorry, but when people no longer have food for themselves and their kids many will become dangerous. I do agree that it would be a benefit to know your neighbors and find those who have the same mind set as you do. Come up with a plan on how to protect your families and property.



Heck people don't even have to be hungry to riot in the USA - they do it if their team WINS. They don't seem to have the good sense God gave a rock!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

> MH was right when he said that people like that will probably get burned out by their communities. It will just be history repeating itself.


This is precisely why the burnee's are called Zombies coming to take what is not theirs. If they had prepared then they would not need to attempt appropriate what is not theirs. I am surprised at you condoning stealing and putting down those that chose to stay to themselves and defend what they worked and paid for for their family and friends.






> There needs to be a balance of caution, good sense and community organization with people working together and everyone know who their neighbour is and what they're capable of.


A balance is when the majority of the people of this forum meet with people with enough sense to put things away and being willing to group together to defend themselves against those that think the unprepared community deserves what they have.


Of course all of this is extreme conditions.

And if we keep taking from the workers for the good of the community, the sooner the ones that prepare for themselves will have to defend it from the ones that do not wake up. And if you've paid any attention to this forum, you will have seen acts of generousity to people even in other countries.
And making friends and offering help may make you part of the loonie Prepper's okay to approach list - but come in groups without regard to their land or right to keep their food and stuff - you probably will be met with lead.

Right now in AL, if you come to my home to take what I have, it is legal for me to use deadly force to discourage you severely. In some more severely community-good (socialist/communist) types of areas, people's rights are lower than the community good. 

That is not the USA I know, and it definitely is not this forum.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

earthkitty said:


> Suggesting that people who prefer to keep to themselves should be "burned out" and everything they own should be stolen? You agree with that?
> 
> I agree that some people are social types who can't get along without others. There are also those of us who don't trust people and who are very wary of strangers who might decide to "burn us out".
> 
> People like you and Mr. H saying things like that makes us the way we are.


Who suggested that they "should be burned out"? Who said anything about stealing their stuff? 

Nobody. That's YOUR take on it. 

Go back and read it again. It was said that the paranoid armed-to-the-teeth kooks who shoot first would probably have to be burned out by their communities. 

That will be history repeating itself and it is highly likely that that is what will happen. Communities don't trust people who make enemies of themselves before something even goes wrong. Who do you think the communities will be most concerned about when something does go wrong? It will be the anti-social people who set themselves up as enemies ahead of time. Anti-social people who set themselves up as different and enemies of everyone else are just asking other people to go on a witch hunt.

Think about history. If you don't know your history then perhaps it's time to learn it.

.


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## Wags (Jun 2, 2002)

naturelover said:


> I like Mr. Hogwallop's posts. I agree with a lot of what he said. He sounds like a sensible person that I wouldn't mind having as a neighbour if TSHTF. Maybe a bit abrasive at times but no more so than a lot of other people on the board. Some anti-social lone wolf type of tinfoil people on here might not like to hear what he has to say because of the way it reflects on their own paranoid idiosyncracies but Mr. Hogwallop's posts are common sense and more suited to sociable people who believe in neighbourhoods and communities coordinating and working together to help each other out.
> 
> I think that communities should be working together to ensure the safety of the community as a whole, and I also think the paranoid lone wolf kooks are the ones who will cause the most trouble for communities and for their own selves. Those are the ones who will alienate themselves so much from others that they will be shunned and turned away by society, demonized when a time comes that they most need help from their community. MH was right when he said that people like that will probably get burned out by their communities. It will just be history repeating itself. There needs to be a balance of caution, good sense and community organization with people working together and everyone know who their neighbour is and what they're capable of.
> 
> .



I'm not at all surprise that you like his/her posts. 

Ants are rarely "lone wolves", they usually have a very good underground network. Grasshoppers will always think there way is superior and their best plan is to take from others because that is only "fair". Well guess what life ain't fair!


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

naturelover said:


> Who suggested that they "should be burned out"? Who said anything about stealing their stuff?
> 
> Nobody. That's YOUR take on it.
> 
> Go back and read it again. It was said that the paranoid armed-to-the-teeth kooks who shoot first would probably have to be burned out by their communities.


From his post, and I quote...


_"I'm not real sure how wed handle the few kooks armed to the teeth and willing to kill anyone who stepped on their land in their paranoid panic. We'd probably have to as a community burn them out or something."_

then

_"on the upside, lone kooks collect great caches of cool stuff. The village appreciates your contribution."_ 




> Anti-social people who set themselves up as different...are just asking other people to go on a witch hunt.


Got it. Thanks so much for the clarification. Don't step on my land.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Wags said:


> I'm not at all surprise that you like his/her posts.
> 
> Ants are rarely "lone wolves", they usually have a very good underground network. Grasshoppers will always think there way is superior and their best plan is to take from others because that is only "fair". Well guess what life ain't fair!


It's worse than that. In the referenced posts, it's not about fair, it's about weeding out those who are "different" so the community hoard can pillage without resistance.

No one ever said they would go around shooting every stranger they saw without cause. What has been said over and over is that if strangers who are wandering the streets looking to pilfer come around, they most certainly will be met with resistance.

The old student council types whose homeowner's associations have disintegrated will gather and try to tell people what to do, as is their nature.

The rest of us who mind our own business will continue to do so until the riff raff has moved on or died off. THEN we will rebuild our communities, without the grasshoppers.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

In the recent Tornadoes around here. About as SHTF as a local area can get, this concept of being prepared and community was tested.

The thing is the people that knew each other, and already trusted each other, helped each other. Immensely. These were the ones that did the work afterwards...

Then the ones that thought they should be able to come take what was not locked up or nailed down (looters, anyone) - they were met with signs saying Looters will be shot - and the sheriff knew it. One decided to help himself to a generator or something like that from a small store, the owner was inside and the looter did not stop - Looter will not be doing that again.

No one said that anyone is just a lone wolf, but they don't have to be part of the social club either.

And both Mr. H, and by agreeing with him - inferred that lone wolves that are not part of the core community are suspect and stand and should be burned out. 
That just burns me up that anyone thinks that because their business is not known by all, and you are not welcome on their land, that they should be "burned out."

The more I think about anyone justifiying burning someone out, when they are on their own property and not off it bothering anyone the ANGRIER I get.

:flame:


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

And by the way, if my entire community could be made up of 100 Ernies I wouldn't have to worry.

If only more people planned and thought like him there would be no problem in the first place.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> This is precisely why the burnee's are called Zombies coming to take what is not theirs. If they had prepared then they would not need to attempt appropriate what is not theirs. *I am surprised at you condoning stealing and putting down those that chose to stay to themselves and defend what they worked and paid for for their family and friends.*


Where did I say that? And where did I say anything about zombies? I'm talking about communities of people helping each other out.

I'm a loner. I'm a prepper. I have guns too. I know for a fact that I'm more prepared and ready for TEOTWAWKI than a lot of other people on this board are. However, if TSHTF I will still band up and organize with my community because there is more safety in numbers. But I'm not so paranoid about something that hasn't even happened yet, and maybe never will happen, that I'd be planning on shooting people first without asking questions if somebody comes to my property. That's just plain crazy. 

It IS those who are most paranoid and anti-social towards their communities and most willing to kill people are the ones who will have the most trouble with their communities.

.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

AngieM2 said:


> No one said that anyone is just a lone wolf, but they don't have to be part of the social club either.
> 
> And both Mr. H, and by agreeing with him - inferred that lone wolves that are not part of the core community are suspect and stand and should be burned out.
> That just burns me up that anyone thinks that because their business is not known by all, and you are not welcome on their land, that they should be "burned out."
> ...


I think you are having a knee-jerk reaction to something that wasn't said.

Nobody said anybody should be burned out. 

The implication was that the paranoids who shoot at community members will probably have to be burned out because they represent a hazard to everyone else in the community.

If you walk down a road and come close to some person's property and that person shoots you, murders you, just because you came close then what should the community do about the shooter? Paranoid loners are not the only ones who have a right to defend themselves, the community also has a right to defend itself.

.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

earthkitty said:


> And by the way, if my entire community could be made up of 100 Ernies I wouldn't have to worry.
> 
> If only more people planned and thought like him there would be no problem in the first place.


Did I say anything about Ernie? Are you saying that you think Ernie fits the category of a dangerous, unreasonable paranoid who wants to kill people if they come near his land?

I'm not a member of Ernie's fan club, I think he's a bit strange but I certainly don't think that poorly of him. I think he is trying very hard to be self sufficient and wishful of protecting his family against the government and zombie hordes but I don't think he's a cold blooded killer just waiting for opportunities to murder people.

.


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## Mr.Hogwallop (Oct 2, 2009)

Obviously, I've been badly misunderstood and I hit a few raw nerves.
I apologize if I did that, I was trying to present my own views on what would/could/should happen.

I didn't mean that the post shtf community should, or would go out willy nilly burning out the loners. That of course would be wrong and seriously insane.

What I said (was trying to say) is, that as an established community, where some sort of law and order has been either kept in tact or rebuilt, the community as a whole would not take kindly to a person and his family in full panic mode taking shots at anyone walking across their land. We wouldnt stand for it in peacetime, so the community wouldnt and shouldn't stand for it when there is a crisis to deal with.

I'm sure most of you guys if asked by the community in such a time for assistance you'd freely give it. There are "kooks" out there that wouldn't and would see the situation as a shoot first and ask questions later opportunity. We can all agree, there are a lot of mentally unbalance people in the world.

So in a SHTF situation, where a community is trying to keep law, order, and maintain the peace so everyone can get their lives rebuilt, Even the loners who don't want bothered can appreciate the effort of the community to try and keep some sort of order, and keep _real criminals_ from seizing the opportunity to ruin everyone's day. 

On a normal day, would you stand still over the local hermit taking pot shots at your kids for no other reason than he just doesnt want bothered? Of course not. Which was my point.
A poorly worded one, it seems.

If such a group were a real threat to the peace and the community decided to go remove the threat, that would be the local communities decision to go do by whatever means they decided had to be done. I never said or meant any loaners would need burned out.... A few might, I imagine the stress will send a few of them over the edge of reason. What is a community to do?

We obviously have very different points of view. I don't see a community working together as being "sheeple". This is what people do.... they band together and work together. As angie said, you can see that being done in the tornado areas now. 

Some of you consider any people who would join into a community as being sheep. That's your right to think that way, I tend to disagree. Some of you have a severe "us vs them" mindset. I don't.

We can agree to disagree and leave it at that, or continue to point counterpoint discuss it peacefully. I find some of your postings as shocking as you find mine. That doesn't mean we have to fight about it.

If I was being abrasive, I wasn't trying to be. I was actually trying very hard to be nice. Our views differ, so what. If the SHTF tomorrow, we'd go in different directions, as you believe in a sort of anarchy and I think we should by all means try to keep our social structure in tact. I guess the end of the world will be quite interesting, wont it?

I have this neighbor down the road, he's a kook. He walks around with a loaded pistol, he's mouthy and opinionated and he scares the carp out of most people. I like him, we get along ok. I tell him he's a kook sometimes. Then he goes off on survivalist rants about Obama and commies and the end times.... sheesh. Ya know, if the SHTF, this guy and his family would find themselves on the very unfriendly end of a communities wrath. In peacetime, hey, we can deal with him and his occasional potshots at .... whatever it is he shoots at. In a crisis, his neighbors would burn him out.

I'd just chain him to a tree, but that's me. I know him. They don't, and the majority rules.

I apologize if I stepped on anyone's toes. I was just being as abrasive as everyone else. My mistake.


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## Mr.Hogwallop (Oct 2, 2009)

> If you walk down a road and come close to some person's property and that person shoots you, murders you, just because you came close then what should the community do about the shooter? Paranoid loners are not the only ones who have a right to defend themselves, the community also has a right to defend itself.


um, yeah what she said. Thats what I meant. lol


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## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

Wow - what a thread drift!

RE: "the dregs of society":
It's pretty much a given (at least among most of those here), that those who are able bodied and have no inclination to "earn thy bread by the sweat of thy brow"; who believe and act as if they are "owed", won't last long outside of their subsidized box.

RE: the not so able minded or bodied:
I have no "good" answer. Yes, I feel an obligation to be compassionate, to "remember widows and orphans", but I have no obligation to "cast pearls before swine", or to pour time, talents and resources down rat holes. In some cases, the most humane form of compassion may well be the equivalent of a high velocity piece of lead.

RE: "for the good of the community":
Tough issue. A democracy is two (or more) wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Democracy is a large part of the problem set that got us into the mess we now have. 

A survivable community would need to be governed by consensus - where every voice is heard, respected, and no-one is bound against their will to do the will of their neighbour. E.g.: I am free to give or withhold aid to others as I see fit, according to my circumstances and theirs, on a case by case basis, regardless of what you freely choose to do with the case. When the community comes to my door demanding that I do such-and-such because they deem it in their best interests without regard for mine, they are not my community, but a zombie mob, and will be dealt with accordingly.

A lot to digest here, and I fully expect a lot of folks to not 'get it'. Also a warning: This is a hit and run - I have a lot of chores to do, and probably won't be back for several days.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Andy Nonymous said:


> Wow - what a thread drift!
> 
> RE: "the dregs of society":
> It's pretty much a given (at least among most of those here), that those who are able bodied and have no inclination to "earn thy bread by the sweat of thy brow"; who believe and act as if they are "owed", won't last long outside of their subsidized box.


Amen



> RE: the not so able minded or bodied:
> I have no "good" answer. Yes, I feel an obligation to be compassionate, to "remember widows and orphans", but I have no obligation to "cast pearls before swine", or to pour time, talents and resources down rat holes. In some cases, the most humane form of compassion may well be the equivalent of a high velocity piece of lead.


Amen



> RE: "for the good of the community":
> Tough issue. A democracy is two (or more) wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Democracy is a large part of the problem set that got us into the mess we now have.


Amen. {Funny, COMMunity and COMMunism have the same root word.}




> A survivable community would need to be governed by consensus - where every voice is heard, respected, and no-one is bound against their will to do the will of their neighbour. E.g.: I am free to give or withhold aid to others as I see fit, according to my circumstances and theirs, on a case by case basis, regardless of what you freely choose to do with the case. When the community comes to my door demanding that I do such-and-such because they deem it in their best interests without regard for mine, they are not my community, but a zombie mob, and will be dealt with accordingly.


Amen



> A lot to digest here, and I fully expect a lot of folks to not 'get it'. Also a warning: This is a hit and run - I have a lot of chores to do, and probably won't be back for several days.


Great post!!


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## NewGround (Dec 19, 2010)

Best to leave sleeping lone wolves lie...

Isn't the point of lone wolf "lone?"

Obviously trigger happy crazies are one thing but being a lone wolf is not the same as being a trigger happy crazy...

If you are sneaking into lone wolf's barn to steal his pig and get shot, is that reason for the community to react?

MH should have clarified his lone wolf boogie man a little better to make his point...

Perhaps MH mistook serial killer for a lone wolf... That's a different case...


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

naturelover said:


> Did I say anything about Ernie? Are you saying that you think Ernie fits the category of a dangerous, unreasonable paranoid who wants to kill people if they come near his land?
> 
> *I'm not a member of Ernie's fan club, I think he's a bit strange but I certainly don't think that poorly of him. *I think he is trying very hard to be self sufficient and wishful of protecting his family against the government and zombie hordes but I don't think he's a cold blooded killer just waiting for opportunities to murder people.
> 
> .


Hey.... I resent that! I'm a member of Ernies fan club!!!!:banana:
Brokeneck


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## tkrabec (Mar 12, 2003)

JuliaAnn said:


> Quote;
> Every chance I get I listen to Dave Ramsey's radio show. Almost daily he tells folks in dire financial straits that the priority for money is
> 1. Food
> 2. utilities
> ...


He also encourages people to get another job, to live on a budget & have <gasp> a garage sale to get out of debt</gasp>


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Mr.Hogwallop said:


> Obviously, I've been badly misunderstood and I hit a few raw nerves.
> I apologize if I did that, I was trying to present my own views on what would/could/should happen.
> 
> I didn't mean that the post shtf community should, or would go out willy nilly burning out the loners. That of course would be wrong and seriously insane.
> ...


First you said you were going to beat the carp out of kids trying to make your life miserable...then you say you're going to burn out loners who take pot shots at your kids who are trespassing on their property.

So, basically, you and yours can mess with whom ever you like...but if anyone messes with you they will be burned out? Yeah I have the same philosophy...if your kids are messing with me during a SHTF scenario they are going to get theirs, but if you respond to mine I'll burn your life down to the ground. I guess we'll see who gets who first.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> It's pretty much a given (at least among most of those here), that those who are able bodied and have no inclination to "earn thy bread by the sweat of thy brow"; who believe and act as if they are "owed", won't last long outside of their subsidized box.


Don't be so sure of that. I have never known anyone on welfare who didn't have a cash gig of some sort on the side. By grabbing whatever benefits they could obtain as well as working, they were able to cobble together some semblance of a middle-class existence, and do much better than they would have by either working or taking welfare alone.

That demonstrates a certain resourcefulness, as well as low scruples -- two qualities that probably would serve them well in a pinch. :shrug:


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2011)

willow_girl said:


> I have never known anyone on welfare who didn't have a cash gig of some sort on the side.


This topic is about to take a really interesting turn.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

willow_girl said:


> Don't be so sure of that. I have never known anyone on welfare who didn't have a cash gig of some sort on the side. By grabbing whatever benefits they could obtain as well as working, they were able to cobble together some semblance of a middle-class existence, and do much better than they would have by either working or taking welfare alone.
> 
> That demonstrates a certain resourcefulness, as well as low scruples -- two qualities that probably would serve them well in a pinch. :shrug:


Yeah I've seen that too. I knew a guy who ran a fairly successful small business, all under the radar and claimed every benefit he could get. He did very well, his wife even sold stuff at swap meets and all cash.

The guy was like a rat to me, but rats are survivors.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

mobs of zombies have already started, at least in this area:

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/09/are-mob-attacks-drowning-out-plight-of-poorer-neighborhoods/


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

house06 said:


> ...Dave Ramsey...priority for money is
> 
> 1. Food
> 2. utilities
> ...





pamda said:


> And actually it should be housing,food, utilities then car and in some instances car is not a need.





InvalidID said:


> 1) Food
> 2) Housing
> 3) Utilities
> 4) Car
> ...


I agree with the first quote, with Dave Ramsay. What you have to understand is that he's taking into account the timeframe. Sure, you could re-arrange the priorities in the long term, but you've got to GET to the long term, and that means you've got to live through the short term first.

If you don't eat you don't live. Food is your absolute top priority.

You can lose utilities pretty quickly, particularly if you've got a bad record. You don't want to be without water, electricity, maybe heater fuel, if you can help it. Not as urgent as food, but you'd better avoid having the utilities cut off, so that's next in line.

Housing is vital, but it's generally not urgent if you're in housing and you haven't already let it slip. It can take several months to evict you, so if you absolutely must let it slip you've got those months to work out an alternative. That's why Dave Ramsay put it down the list.

A car is a convenience in most cases. There are generally alternatives for the majority of people, maybe public transport, maybe even starting a couple of hours earlier and walking. That puts the car down the list. Doing without it takes time, though, and you've got a limited amount of that, so it IS on the list.

"AND then everything else."


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Mr Hogwallop and Naturelover--I hear and understand what you're saying. I think I've mentioned it a few times here before. It all goes back to one's part in the community and observing how folks play their part. There is a guy near here who is the paranoid jerk lone wolf with a screw loose. Plenty of other lone wolves who are "cool". People who are mean old jerks will not have a lot of sympathy come something really bad. People who shun their neighbors and keep themselves separate will be found indeed separated when they need their neighbors. It's human nature, can't get around it. Build your bridges NOW.


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## InHisName (Jan 26, 2006)

Someone mentioned Dave Ramsey towards the beginning of this thread- we have been showing the Dave Ramsey videos, even willing to pay for those who cannot afford, to help people learn how to manage money. (Hubby is a pastor) Guess who came? mostly, the people who already have a grip- the people who really need to be there did not make the effort. How do you help them??


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

Some really interesting view points expressed here, and I see value in them all. I actually think MH is describing a likely scenario, based on his knowledge of his area and community. I think we are all doing that.

I just know that the first two months are going to be just awful here. 

The percentage of people on drugs (illegal and prescription) is astounding. There is also the large amount of late teens and 20 something's (and older for sure) who have no idea how to do anything-except take. They haven't learned any "coping skills" their entire lives because they are a product of mainstream education and upbringing. Being adept on the XBox and partying is not a life skill. Most only have part time work, if that, and mooch off of friends and family and sometimes share living quarters with others who have no work ethic. These people are not even counted in the unemployment rolls because they've never worked long enough to qualify for it. 

I am sure you are thinking....what is she talking about? But think about it. In almost every community across America, there is this group? Subset? of idle people, you'll see them gather here and there and most of us give them no thought.....but we should. This segment/demographic is very very dangerous. In their own way, they are wily enough to scavenge an existence without working full time-and enjoy their drug of choice also-many times by theft. Violence is something they are familiar with from their games-which bear no reality to actual bullets and blood and gore. But those games teach them concepts like tactics, planning, etc, and most have developed very good hand-eye coordination. I am sure we mostly think of them as couch potatoes. 

They won't be, when SHTF. JMO. They will be the second wave of unrest...the first will be seriously addicted......again, just my opinion.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Community, hmm. Same root as commune isn't it? 

Right let's see...

So, I work hard for my 'cool' stuff and prepare for a disaster so that if SHTF you can take my 'cool' stuff and give it to _The Commmunity_? (sort of like the whole "Share the Wealth" thingy some political types are so het up on) 

And this whole Commune/Community set-up is supposed to be a good deal for me because - WHY? Oh yeah, because I get to be a 'part' of _The_ _Community_. _The Community _will protect me (even from myself, I'm sure) and will take care of me (each according to their needs, I'll bet) And I'll get a warm and fuzzy feeling because my hard earned 'cool' stuff is going to folks like those in the *OP* who think a video game is more important than food? 

Yeah, I think I'll pass on that Mr. Hogwallop. 

Now, I'm not advocating the total chaos of lone-wolf kooks shooting everything that moves. And _Community_ is fine for those who choose to live that way........I'm just asking that those of you social butterflies who want to band together to form a _Communty_ if TSHTF don't automatically assume that those of us who don't choose to participate are violent criminals. Leave us in peace & keep your sticky fingers off our 'cool' stuff.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Pouncer said:


> Some really interesting view points expressed here, and I see value in them all. I actually think MH is describing a likely scenario, based on his knowledge of his area and community. I think we are all doing that.
> 
> I just know that the first two months are going to be just awful here.
> 
> ...


Here's my thought on that group, as well as the post-Katrina types. First, people who are thugs don't fight with backbone because they have no true heartfelt cause. If a group of gangsters came down my road and ran smack into a gaggle of armed country folk, as soon as we shot the first looter the rest would run. They don't want to die, and they are cowards when presented with that reality.

Second, the only reason there are groups like you mention is because we aren't allowed to shoot them now.


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

Brokeneck said:


> Hey.... I resent that! I'm a member of Ernies fan club!!!!:banana:
> Brokeneck


I am running for president of that club!:bowtie:


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## Usingmyrights (Jan 10, 2011)

Mr.Hogwallop said:


> People have been raised in the last 30 yrs to be soft, expecting to be saved, and totally faithful in the idea that someone will come to fix what's broken. So you have 3 groups of people: The under 30, who will sit and cry and shiver and wait for help, and die of starvation before they dare raise a hand to do anything risky. That's just how kids are anymore. A small % who are already thugs will go hog wild, but will be so disorganized they'll kill each other and end up in small localized thug gangs similar to what we already have in most cities.
> Then ya got the old folks... they'll die off pretty fast.
> Then you got us middle aged people, who grew up with a b&w Tv if any, we walked to school, we played outside. We've been dirt poor and comfortably wealthy. Most of us can live just fine right were we are with no power. My power was out for a few days last storm we had. Other than not having a way to watch tv or surf the net for kicks, I was fine. I could go for a long time with no power, as it just gives you something else to do: Adjusting your lifestyle a bit, resurrecting old skills and ways of doing stuff I used to do. Big deal. I never had an AC so... big whoop. Half the time s a kid we had no power heat or food so...been there done that, woudnt be a shock to go there again.
> 
> ...


There's some major flaws in your thinking. First I'll address you sterotyping by age. My g/f's dad is in his mid-upper 70s and still going strong. By that I mean, he's outside everyday mending/replacing fences, working in the garden, on the tractor, etc. There's other people his age I know that are the same way. For the younger people, I'm in the under 30 age group and am far from what you described. I made for starters I made Eagle Scout back before the scouts started getting away from all of the outdoors skills. I've had several physically demanding jobs and know about auto repair and the construction trade from having worked in both fields. I currently work in corrections at a maximum security forensic mental health unit. I've got several fruit trees on my property, and have bought a bunch of blueberry bushes. I live on a lake so I've got a water source as well as a meat source. I can successfully hunt, fish and trap for meat. My goal for the next year if everything works out is to have a decent (50 or so) flock of chickens as well as raising a small herd of goats or cattle. I also plan on getting more fruiting trees so that I can have year around fresh fruit depending on whats in season. I have beehives which have many benefits. I can go for months with the food currently in my pantry, I have the means of protecting myself from the old farts who want to go around "beating the crap of the local kids", and still have managed to have a savings with minimal dept other than the house payment. Your thoughts on sharing the food to increase numbers is flawed. If may get the group to last longer as a whole, but it hurts individual survival. Thats not to say that you shouldn't help out family, friends or neighbors but they shouldn't be relying on you as their food source because they haven't prepared. Your comments on the community burning out loners makes you no better than the group of thugs going through a neighborhood and taking what they want.

ETA: As far as the middle age people go, I think that many would fare no better than the younger group. I'd say that decent younger people would actually fair better than some of the middle aged people because they'd be willing to learn and they're going to turn to the best source of information on self reliance (the old people). The middle age group is quick to claim that the younger ones "already know everything" or "you can't tell them anything", when in many ways they are ignorant themselves.



wogglebug said:


> A car is a convenience in most cases. There are generally alternatives for the majority of people, maybe public transport, maybe even starting a couple of hours earlier and walking. That puts the car down the list. Doing without it takes time, though, and you've got a limited amount of that, so it IS on the list.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Thats fine and dandy if you live in the city, but if you live in the country where there's no public transportation and you live a days walk from work, it doesn't do you much good to walk.


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## Billie in MO (Jun 9, 2002)

InHisName said:


> Someone mentioned Dave Ramsey towards the beginning of this thread- we have been showing the Dave Ramsey videos, even willing to pay for those who cannot afford, to help people learn how to manage money. (Hubby is a pastor) Guess who came? mostly, the people who already have a grip- the people who really need to be there did not make the effort. How do you help them??


I hear you. Several years ago we did the Crown Financial course, which is similar to Dave Ramsey but is based on what the Bible says to do with money. We paid for my sis-in-law to take the course with us and to this day I swear she didn't hear a word that was said. We have since taught the course ourselves to one group but since that time offers to teach it go unheard. We have others in the family who could benefit from it but continue as they please. Some have no jobs and no unemployment (all used up) and I don't understand how they still have a roof over their heads and food with no money.

No answers either.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

> Community, hmm. Same root as commune isn't it?
> 
> Right let's see...
> 
> ...



:goodjob::goodjobost of the Day For Sure!!!


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## Mr.Hogwallop (Oct 2, 2009)

> First you said you were going to beat the carp out of kids trying to make your life miserable...then you say you're going to burn out loners who take pot shots at your kids who are trespassing on their property.


um, no I said the community would do these things, most likely by the existing law enforcement and deputized citizens. You substitute "you" where I mean "community"



> So, basically, you and yours can mess with whom ever you like...but if anyone messes with you they will be burned out?


Um no, the process would work much the way it works any other time, but with more focus on the community more aware of security and peace keeping. You are part of the community, like it or dont, you're just an active part of it or, you choose to make everyone really nervous. Really nervous makes skeert people do stupid things. It would be in your bet interests to be nice and neighborly, and then the community will probably leave you alone. We paint our own targets on our own foreheads ya know.



> Yeah I have the same philosophy...if your kids are messing with me during a SHTF scenario they are going to get theirs, but if you respond to mine I'll burn your life down to the ground. I guess we'll see who gets who first.


See, if we can stop looking at each other as the enemy, we can all get along nicely. Think about it, is there really any good reason for you to want to be a xenophobe when the SHTF, when it's a given truth, there is strength in numbers? 

Not to be offensive but really, what sort of kook prefers to intentionally be isolated in such a world? Is it so hard to be a good neighbor?

We look at this subject through the glasses of our own surrounding area. In my neck of the woods, we all leave each other alone, I hardly ever talk to my neighbors.

But they know who I am if they see me walking across their field. I know who their kids are if they are picking berries along my road. In the same light, if I dont know the guy I see, I might pick up a phone and say "hi bob, long time no see... um, theres a dude in your field, you know him? I dont"

If I read you guys right, you dont want anyone, even if you know them, near your borders.
Which you have to admit, is a wee bit nuts... right?

What you read and what I said are different. You are saying I will do this and I will do that, and what I actually said was, the community law enforcement structure will do this and do that.

And no where did I say, anyone would just go loot your home because you are a bit antisocial and unfriendly. That would be insane.

BUT if you happen to be taking pot shots at people because you're in a blind paranoid panic, well... we wouldnt ignore that hereaboouts NOW on a sunny peaceful day, we surely would be even more intolerant of it when everyone in the community is picking up pieces and burying the dead. It's simple common sense. If you shoot someone in your barn stealing your pig tonight, it's not as if, you're going to get away with it without jumping through the hoops the legal system will require you to afterwards. Civilized people just dont kill people on their property and dig a hole. Reality doesn't work that way. The law will come, ask you 100 questions, and if you are belligerent or acting weird, you are probably going to be detained for a while until "the community" figures out what happened. before or after the SHTF, itwill work the same where there is some law left in tact.

"Community" is not a dirty word, and has nothing to do with the word "communism".
You owe all those nifty toys you have horded away to someone's industrial community who made it, shipped it and sold it to you, ya know. 

It's not all that horrible to pretend to be a good neighbor and a friendly member of the community, even if you keep to yourself. The first rule of survival is, don't paint a target on your -----. Acting like a kook, pardon the term, will do just that in a disaster area.

The community doesn't want to raid your storehouse, the community just wants to maintain a peaceful and secure area, like any other time. What will happen if they come to you and ask "do you have any of this or that you can spare" and you shift into kook mode and chase them off, they will ostracize you, and when you get raided and scream for help..... you think they will come? if your home catches fire or your kid falls down a ravine, you think they will come?

There are some severe drawbacks to wanting to be left alone. The worst one is, you just might be.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Mr. Hogwallop,
I'm just curious, are you for real? I'm starting to get that troll vibe here.


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## Mr.Hogwallop (Oct 2, 2009)

I'm trying to be as nice, and as clear on my point of view as possible.

As I said, if we disagree, we disagree. You find no value in discussing this subject with someone with a different viewpoint?

I'm very interested in yours since it is so radically different than my own, I find it educational and informative.

It's nice to know how other people think.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

Mr.Hogwallop said:


> I'm trying to be as nice, and as clear on my point of view as possible......


Then I'll take you at your word and assume you aren't a troll. 

I'm pretty sure Community & commune (as well as a few other English language words) share a common root "commu" which means 'to share'. 

You may very well wish to join up with some sort of Community if SHTF, that's wonderful for you. - I do not. That does not make me a kook. Nor does it mean I will take potshots at a wandering innocent who's shadow happens to cross my land. It just means I don't want to come to your party. I have no desire to throw my lot in with folks who may or may not share my work ethic or values.

I am wondering. How long would it take a Community which thinks, as you stated, that anyone who 'isn't with them is against them' to make a pre-emptive strike to 'burn out' someone who has no desire to share - just in case the loner was a kook with killin' on his mind. And of course, if the loner was dead - taking his 'cool' stuff would just be their right.

(Not saying you'd personally do this, mind you. Just wonder what your thoughts are on this)


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

Becka, you got it your the new president of the official Ernies Fan Club!!!!! I claim vice president....


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Well my whole family is full of kooks........We will be our own community......and this land is protected by Smith and Wesson.
Only kooks are welcomed here.....because we have really cool stuff.


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## Brokeneck (Mar 1, 2011)

See, it's even in my sig line now!!!


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Mr.Hogwallop said:


> I'm trying to be as nice, and as clear on my point of view as possible.
> 
> As I said, if we disagree, we disagree. You find no value in discussing this subject with someone with a different viewpoint?
> 
> ...


Well, if as you say, everyone is part of the community then it sounds like your community is comprised of a bunch of bozos who are going to be at each others throats in no time.

First you talk about your kids and other peoples kids and what will happen if they mess with you, then you say it isn't you it's 'the community'....if so, then how do you know what 'the community' will do? Are you the official spokes person for every individual in your town/area?

If you don't know that the word 'community' has the same root and same meaning as 'communism' then you don't know much. Those 'lone wolf kooks' in your area have been contributing to your roads, schools, and police via their property taxes for as long as they have been there, not sure what else you feel they 'owe' you and your friends.

My advice is to mind your business and stay off of other people's land...you'll live longer...that goes for 'the community' as well.


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

CRC, based on other threads, the troll vibe is really strong. This thread, not as much. Reminds me of one visitor we get from GC on occiasion. 
In my years here, trolling is not an accusation I make lightly.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Brokeneck said:


> See, it's even in my sig line now!!!


What comes after the vice president? I wanna be that! :bouncy::goodjob: oh I mean :bowtie:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

enough


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