# Is Christmas a Christian Holiday to You?



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Or is it entirely secular for you? Just the lights, Santa Claus, presents and cookie?
Or do you celebrate something else that falls during “the holidays”? Yule, Kwanza, Hanukkah?

My family celebrates it as a Christian holiday..the birth of Christ but with plenty of secular trappings.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Definitely Christian for us. We don't do the santa stuff. We did when they were real little then when they were older we told them the truth and kept the focus on Christ. The holiday itself is a Christian holiday. It is also the most celebrated holiday world wide.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Yes, it is a Christian holiday to us. But also, it is a time for family to get together. As for the rest, I can take it or leave it. I pass on office "holiday" parties.


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## montysky (Aug 21, 2006)

It is both in our home


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'm not Christian but perceive Christmas as a Christian time of year. My family celebrates but since we are a mix of faiths, the emphasis is on family, friends and the people who are important to us. My father established a rule many years ago that all gifts were homemade. During the discussion, he kept emphasizing the opportunity to reflect upon the recipient and the older I get, the more I understand. 

When the kids were small, Santa was involved but Santa only brought one gift to each child and I reminded them that if they asked for extras or something large, another child might not receive a gift.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

We see this holiday as purely secular.

Our church has looked closely at the prophecies in Daniel, the star charts, etc, and they have exhaustively documented the date of Jesus' birth to somewhere in August/September.

The history of this holiday is an interesting study. But it has no connection to any Biblical event.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Christ mas


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

It is a business holiday


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

I've studied this quite a bit myself. The bible says Jesus was born 6 months after John the babtist. The Bible says John was born right after the passover. The average passover date is around April 27th. So John was born within a month of that average date. Could be late may. The bible also says christ w born after the last harvest of the season. Which is the harvest of olives. Which is late November early December. So while I don't think Christ was born on December 25th. It very well could be December. But most likely. November.


ET1 SS said:


> We see this holiday as purely secular.
> 
> Our church has looked closely at the prophecies in Daniel, the star charts, etc, and they have exhaustively documented the date of Jesus' birth to somewhere in August/September.
> 
> The history of this holiday is an interesting study. But it has no connection to any Biblical event.


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## happy hermits (Jan 2, 2018)

We celebrate mostly family and traditions with a touch of religion.


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## snowlady (Aug 1, 2011)

It’s a Christian holiday for us with many secular traditions. We focus on religious aspect as well as family, joy, coziness and tradition. We don’t get bent if someone wishes us happy holidays, happy Hanukkah, winter solstice, or happy Kwanza.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Zero religion for us. Family time, good eats. The radio or mom will have Christmas music with all the classic religious songs in the background, but that's just how it's always been. Little lord Jesus asleep in the hay, etc LOL.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

For me, it’s family, friends, food, lights, decorations, get togethers, egg nog, a bonfire, maybe some fireworks, some adult beverages, etc.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

The great thing is we have the freedom to believe it means whatever we want and what ever we "Believe" it means,...it does.


For one it might represent corporate greed and for them it means what they believe, for others it means whatever they believe it does.


The oldest history links the holiday, like much of our modern traditions, back to a pagan beginning where the shawman in a far distant corner of the world where it snows a lot, used the standard secondary entrance to the home which was the center opening since in many areas of those regions 6 foot of snow was common, which blocked the main entrance ,so people used the secondary entrance, the chimney. Which in those days was just a large hole in the roof where the fire and smoke could vent.

He would descend down the "Chimney"....or the roof access and distribute supplies that they were traditionally in charge of storing during the plentiful months. Of course people were very grateful for this and left him drinks and snacks a long the way.


These "Presents" he brought were a cause for celebration as traditionally the winter months were a very lean time for harvests. One of these gifts he brought was known as the Amanita Muscaria mushroom that was found under a pine tree and then left in its branches in the sun to dry for preservation.

One can even see to this day the "Disney" styled red mushroom with the white spots found on holiday cards, as many old ornaments for the tree etc.

One of the effects of consuming this "Treat" was a red roses face, laughter and "Holiday cheer",....much like drinking wine.

The winter months are traditionally a gloomy,cold depressing time of the years for many even to this day, so some much needed "Cheer" was welcomed and a boost to the spirit to keep people going until spring.


So thru the years this "Holiday" took on the characteristics of its beginnings,...…. until what we see today.


The shawman, typically a jolly wise older person who dressed in colorful embellished garmets , distributed "his gifts" thru the secondary winter entrance to the house, "chimney" which were "ornaments" dried on a pine tree earlier that year to provide some winter cheer and those "gifts" were eventually put on the very tree they were found under and dried on the branches of inside the house in a symbolic fashion to its origins.


December 25 th being the middle of the winter solstice as the time the sun is at its lowest point of the year before it rises again towards the vernal equinox, so what is considered the mid point of winter and of shorter days and beginning of longer days...… it can observed each year in the heavens where the sun actually seems to die, stop decending and rises after 3 days..

This marks the death of winter and the year and the new beginning or new life of next year. As the sun rises farther each day in the sky after dying for 3 days. For many in the olden times this was a perfect time for celebration as the dreadful winter with its short dark gloomy days had reached a end and the promise of a new year and longer days had begun.


Which was a perfect time for the shawman to pass out his gifts to celebrate this event...…...as much of old life was tied to the seasons,......Tis the season after all.

I will end it there and maybe next time cover Jesus and his 12 seasons, I mean apostles,....he after all is the sun, I mean son..….Moon star,...minister, sunrise service...…...


The heavens/stars were very important to the old days/ways and even now as we base much of modern life on it....


I say celebrate that you can celebrate and be thankful for whatever reason/belief, because celebration and thankfulness, communion amongst people is a great thing,...….whatever the reasons/beliefs one might affiliate with the holidays.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Many early churches played with dates. When they were trying to convert new pagans they had conquered they scheduled church holidays to replace pagan holidays. This is how we end up with things like Christmas trees and mistletoe being part of Christmas, and eggs being part of Easter. Winter solstice festival and spring equinox festivals were replaced with the church holidays, and tiny parts of those cultures got added to the church holidays.

Mistletoe was once used as a morning after drug. Wild solstice revelers would dangle a piece to potential partners to alleviate fears of unintended consequences from such frolicking. They had intentions of doing more than kissing.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

ET1 SS said:


> We see this holiday as purely secular.
> 
> Our church has looked closely at the prophecies in Daniel, the star charts, etc, and they have exhaustively documented the date of Jesus' birth to somewhere in August/September.
> 
> The history of this holiday is an interesting study. But it has no connection to any Biblical event.


I've found others that have studied this as well and always glad to see it.
It's not that difficult to calculate from the dates and time periods given in the 1st chapter of Luke when both John the Baptist and Jesus were conceived and then born. Connecting the only 3 feasts that are specifically instructed to be observed in the OT to the prophecies throughout further confirms what most Christians should already know.
But centuries of tradition are too hard to break apparently. 

So to answer the OP's question, "No".
It's an artificial holiday for us, not a "Christian" one. Not only is it not mentioned as a date to be observed in the Bible, the date they came up with doesn't match the scriptures in Luke.
But rather than revile it as an old Pagan celebration of the winter solstice, we've come to acknowledge that Christmas *IS* the date when Christ came to this earth to live as a man.
Even mankind couldn't completely screw that up.
It turns out that's the date of His conception.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

When I was young I believed it was a Christian holiday. When I was young I also believed in Santa Claus.

I'm not young anymore. I've seen too much.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Christmas Christians is what my grandparents called people who believed Christmas was really a religious holiday. They believed anyone that anyone that really followed the Bible understood that Xmas had nothing to do with Christ's real birthday. Trees, decorations and such were pagan rites to them.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

painterswife said:


> Christmas Christians is what my grandparents called people who believed Christmas was really a religious holiday. They believed anyone that anyone that really followed the Bible understood that Xmas had nothing to do with Christ's real birthday. Trees, decorations and such were pagan rites to them.


I didn't find all that out until long after I'd left the "mainstream" denominational church I was raised in.
Even though some of the holiday's non Christian roots were acknowledged and everyone but the youngest kids could see the commercialism that drives it, it was always considered an important Christian celebration.
Once you get past all that, the redeeming value of this time of year is seeing acts of kindness that show us how good things _could_ be the rest of the year, if we treated every day the same as that one.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Interest choice of words to say folks “revile” Christmas as being derived from a pagan holiday. It’s just a discussion of history. Pagans are simply folks who follow different traditions than Christians. 

Words choices.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Interest choice of words to say folks “revile” Christmas as being derived from a pagan holiday. It’s just a discussion of history. Pagans are simply folks who follow different traditions than Christians. 

Word choices fascinate me.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

https://www.history.com/news/why-is-christmas-celebrated-on-december-25

For at least 75 years I have stood in a darkened church on December 24th and sung "Silent Night, Holy Night" while holding a lighted candle, so, yes, Christmas is a Christian celebration for me. Christmas Day--December 25th--is a multifaceted day of presents, giving and receiving, eating, visiting, listening to choirs, relaxing, discovering what Santa left me, and wishing that the peacefulness would last longer than just one day. And because I believe in that child turned Savior, it does, at least for me, in my heart.
Best wishes.

geo


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

“Saint Nicholas” has been garbled enough over the centuries to now be called “Santa Claus.”
Try repeating the former ten times and it isn’t hard to transform it into the latter after a few times.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Pagans are simply folks who follow different traditions than Christians.


Some folks don't like anything "different" from themselves.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

For us it's a Christian holiday that's been commercialized beyond recognition.
Customs from different beliefs seem to have overlapped, kinda like Easter and Peter Cottontail,
Christmas time is a holiday for everyone unless they self exclude.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

I only remember having a Christmas tree twice when growing up. We were poor. At 17 yrs. I went to a library and researched the history of Christmas and found its origins. It didn't seem right and Jesus didn't celebrate his birthday because he was raised Jewish. Then I joined a Church that was living partly Christian and partly Jewish. Stayed with that until I realized they too were mistaken in many of their teachings. Finally I concluded that a Christian is a follower of Christ and we should live our lives to reflect Him all year not only at a specific time of year. We don't celebrate any holidays or rituals except the Lord's Supper which Jesus instituted before He died. I don't judge what others do as everyone makes their own choices and we made ours. Some of our freedoms are being eroded away but so far the choice to choose religion or not . For that I am thankful.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Interest choice of words to say folks “revile” Christmas as being derived from a pagan holiday. It’s just a discussion of history. Pagans are simply folks who follow different traditions than Christians.
> 
> Words choices.


It was an interesting choice of words and apparently an unconscious one.....I had to go back and see who said that!
LOL.

Just spent a few minutes doing a biblical word study on that to figure out why that word stuck in my mind, because it is a strong one.
Notice though that I said "*Rather than revile....*"
This is the first reaction that occurs when you realize you were duped into breaking the 1st commandment - by your fellow Christians no less!
My wife still tears up when she thinks about how she enjoyed all the Easter traditions with her kids years ago. After finding out the origins of the spring fertility rites including orgies in those temples, she recoiled in horror - an even better choice of words. 
It's like the way Thanksgiving can be viewed from different perspectives.
A Native American might see that as the celebration of the beginning of their destruction, others as sincere thankfulness for all God has given them. 


But that sentence was not meant as a slap to others, rather raising a hand to block it before it made contact.
When one realizes all the good that flows from the spirit of giving, it only shows that good can come from all things, if you try hard enough.
Instead of focusing on negativity and criticizing everyone and everything they do, rejoice in the proclamation, "Peace on earth, good will to all mankind."


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

For us, we celebrate Christmas because it has been a wonderful, magical tradition that is filled with many loving memories from throughout our lives.

We don't need Christmas to celebrate the birth of our Savior. We celebrate the birth of our Savior every day of the year.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It could be said that the difference between a Christian Christmas and a modern Christmas is that the price tag is still attached to the latter.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Christmas Christians is what my grandparents called people who believed Christmas was really a religious holiday. They believed anyone that anyone that really followed the Bible understood that Xmas had nothing to do with Christ's real birthday. Trees, decorations and such were pagan rites to them.


Thanks for sharing this.
It’s useful to be reminded that there are always people who use their religion to snipe at and belittle others who don’t conform to their superior and more pious standards.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> Thanks for sharing this.
> It’s useful to be reminded that there are always people who use their religion to snipe at and belittle others who don’t conform to their superior and more pious standards.


My grandparents never sniped or belittled. They had firmly held beliefs and lived them every day. They shared with me what they believed and why but never said that to others. I shared what they told me because others here shared that they believe the same. I offered no judgement on those beliefs good or bad.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> My grandparents never sniped or belittled. They had firmly held beliefs and lived them every day. They shared with me what they believed and why but never said that to others. I shared what they told me because others here shared that they believe the same. I offered no judgement on those beliefs good or bad.


Calling others “Christmas Christians” is most certainly namecalling whether or not they said it to others faces or behind their backs. I didn’t notice anyone else here doing this. They only expressed their own beliefs without namecalling.

But then, you feel the same way..or did a few years ago.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

secular


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> For me, it’s family, friends, food, lights, decorations, get togethers, egg nog, a bonfire, maybe some fireworks, some adult beverages, etc.


Sounds a lot like ours. Getting the big barn ready to go for the get togethers.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

My father has developed dementia and at this point in his life, he seems to enjoy the comfort he gets from church so I'll be heading for Christmas mass this year. 

It's not something I would normally do but I'll enjoy the experience for the comfort it brings him and while there will be differences in faith, the underlying message is universal and not much different than my beliefs, be kind, treat others with respect and dignity, which is the fundamentals of all faiths.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> My grandparents never sniped or belittled. They had firmly held beliefs and lived them every day. They shared with me what they believed and why but never said that to others. I shared what they told me because others here shared that they believe the same. I offered no judgement on those beliefs good or bad.


I think the question was how each of us viewed Christmas but I'm of the opinion that even if someone attends Christmas service, it does allow the opportunity to instill a message of kindness and decency toward others and since I'm always a bit confused when someone judges another's traditions or beliefs.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> I think the question was how each of us viewed Christmas but I'm of the opinion that even if someone attends Christmas service, it does allow the opportunity to instill a message of kindness and decency toward others and since I'm always a bit confused when someone judges another's traditions or beliefs.


That WAS The question and most people managed to answer without namecalling via anecdotes about relatives or themselves.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> You asked what you believed, so I showed you what you believed a few years ago.
> What you thought was hypocritical. Which sounds like your grandparents sanctimonious namecalling.
> But hey...beliefs change.
> Perhaps yours have too.
> It’s all good.


My grandparents never belittled or were sanctimonious in name-calling. They shared with me personally how they viewed Christmas. Yes, they used a saying that would never be acceptable now when talking with me. They shared their beliefs in hopes that others would share back with them. They never belittled because it would serve no purpose in spreading their gospel. They never used the saying to anyone as a means to belittle or snipe. I did not either. It was an example I was sharing with those that expressed their beliefs that Christmas is not really a religious holiday to them. It has nothing to do with what. I believe.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I think the question was how each of us viewed Christmas but I'm of the opinion that even if someone attends Christmas service, it does allow the opportunity to instill a message of kindness and decency toward others and since I'm always a bit confused when someone judges another's traditions or beliefs.


I shared my grandparents beliefs. I judged no one. I however was judged and had my personal beliefs brought into this thread.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> They never used the saying to anyone as a means to belittle or snipe.


I don't see how it could have any other meaning regardless of to whom it was said.
That logic would be like thinking racial epithets aren't bad as long as you only use them at home.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I shared my grandparents beliefs. I judged no one. I however was judged and had my personal beliefs brought into this thread.


Who said you did?
You showed us that your grandparents were the judgemental ones.
Your own personal beliefs and judgements are easily searchable since I apparently erred in posting your beliefs from a few years ago.

and actually, this thread was asking about personal beliefs of posters....not their grandparents.
You didn’t mention yours, but managed make your grandparents look bad. 
Shame on you.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I shared my grandparents beliefs. I judged no one. I however was judged and had my personal beliefs brought into this thread.


I believe the OP asked about Christmas traditions and how we viewed the holiday, not how family members judge others and their traditions. 

Perhaps instead of taking the time to add a comment or opinion on someone else's traditions, you could share your own or perhaps your grandparents traditions, unless their only tradition was commenting on someone else's traditions. 

My grandfather was a very devout Catholic and he seemed to feel it was great that those once a year church goers made it to church. It gave others at least one opportunity to receive the same message that gave him comfort and guidance.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I believe the OP asked about Christmas traditions and how we viewed the holiday, not how family members judge others and their traditions.
> 
> Perhaps instead of taking the time to add a comment or opinion on someone else's traditions, you could share your own or perhaps your grandparents traditions, unless their only tradition was commenting on someone else's traditions.
> 
> My grandfather was a very devout Catholic and he seemed to feel it was great that those once a year church goers made it to church. It gave others at least one opportunity to receive the same message that gave him comfort and guidance.


I expounded on my personal family experience with regards to beliefs other shared. Is that not allowed anymore in threads? I thought that thread drift was allowed. Clarification on this would be great.

Family traditions and beliefs often are the stepping stones to our own. I shared my family history as others have. Just because I had not yet posted my own does not seem to be a bar to posting what. I did. If it is then all family mentions should be reported and removed.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

My family and friends are quite the mixed bag when it comes to religion or non-religious, Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Pagan, Muslim, atheist and agnostic. It's the family and friends that matter, it is a great time of year and we celebrate our being together.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I expounded on my personal family experience with regards to beliefs other shared. Is that not allowed anymore in threads? I thought that thread drift was allowed. Clarification on this would be great.
> 
> Family traditions and beliefs often are the stepping stones to our own. I shared my family history as others have. Just because I had not yet posted my own does not seem to be a bar to posting what. I did. If it is then all family mentions should be reported and removed.


so? All I did was “expound” on the sanctimony you shared about your grandparents.
I’m shocked that if you feel your grandparents were such exemplary people that you didn’t follow their religious example.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I expounded on my personal family experience with regards to beliefs other shared. Is that not allowed anymore in threads? I thought that thread drift was allowed. Clarification on this would be great.
> 
> Family traditions and beliefs often are the stepping stones to our own. I shared my family history as others have. Just because I had not yet posted my own does not seem to be a bar to posting what. I did. If it is then all family mentions should be reported and removed.


Certainly thread drift happens but why spoil feel good threads in the process?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> Certainly thread drift happens but why spoil feel good threads in the process?


What I shared was what others shared. The judgement of how my grandparents shared beliefs with me is what spoiled this thread.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> What I shared was what others shared. The judgement of how my grandparents shared beliefs with me is what spoiled this thread.


You mean the judgement of your grandparent’s judgement?
Since you’ve openly judged that same kind of sanctimony in the past I’m quite surprised at your upset here.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> What I shared was what others shared. The judgement of how my grandparents shared beliefs with me is what spoiled this thread.


I'll have to review because I must have missed comments insulting other faiths.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> I'll have to review because I must have missed comments insulting other faiths.


I haven’t seen any. I’ve only seen others answering the original question without judgement from anyone. And explanations as to why they do. It’s been pretty fascinating. Some posts are very interesting and informative, I had no idea about the mushroom thing.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> I'll have to review because I must have missed comments insulting other faiths.


Some taking it as an insult does not mean it was posted as an insult. The posts that said Christmas can't be a Christian holiday could also be taken as an insult by those that believe it is.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am shocked at you being shocked at his personal decisions.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am shocked at you being shocked at his personal decisions.


Whose personal decisions?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'll stop by Cousin Leon's Christmas eve to leave some gingerbread and peaches. He and his wife usually have their church over for potluck and fellowship. Morgan will preach a little, Ms. Tina will play the Kinnor. If Horbus is in town he'll come by with his snake and do a little dance and testify; his wife is usually there with antidote.
I don't judge but I will say I favor the snowball margaritas the extended family share off the front porch.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I remember some of the old mountain people talking about "old Christmas". It's January 6. Here, Christmas means eating oysters.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> I remember some of the old mountain people talking about "old Christmas". It's January 6. Here, Christmas means eating oysters.


THAT sounds fantastic. How do you eat them? My grandma always made oyster stew on Christmas Eve.
I’ll eat oysters pretty much any way I can get them.


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## tripletmom (Feb 4, 2005)

We had oyster stew on Christmas Eve growing up too!! Granny made chili for my brother


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I can feel the love.
I plan to pretend to be a good person for Christmas if only in my mind.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SRSLADE said:


> I can feel the love.
> I plan to pretend to be a good person for Christmas if only in my mind.


It's not Whoville in here, is it? Most of the people on HT don't have to pretend to be good people, they are.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Let us all be whovillian everyone.
I love whoville.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> The *judgement* of how my grandparents shared beliefs with me is what spoiled this thread.


I'm sorry reality upsets you.



painterswife said:


> I expounded on my personal family experience with regards to beliefs other shared.


You've said that several times now.
The outcome isn't likely to change.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Some taking it as an insult does not mean it was posted as an insult.


Remind yourself of that when you feel "insulted" by someone's posts.
Some things are just true, no matter how hard you back peddle.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Most of the people on HT *don't have to* *pretend* to be good people


That's true.
They don't have to pretend about anything.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Yet more love. Don't forget goodwill.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SRSLADE said:


> Let us all be whovillian everyone.
> I love whoville.


Me too. Even the Grinch realized that Christmas is about love, family, and friends eventually. 

Fingers crossed.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I wonder who is playing the part this year.
We need patience for him to show up.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

SRSLADE said:


> I wonder who is playing the part this year.
> We need patience for him to show up.


Or her or them. I think the Grinch may have been non-binary.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

shawnlee said:


> The great thing is we have the freedom to believe it means whatever we want and what ever we "Believe" it means,...it does.
> 
> 
> For one it might represent corporate greed and for them it means what they believe, for others it means whatever they believe it does.
> ...


I for one would love to hear more about Jesus and his 12 seasons...
Thanks for your post.

I was raised Catholic, so Christmas was religious. It still is now, though I am not a practicing catholic, I am a practicing "be a good person" and a nature lover. So I love the son and the sun. I also love that everyone can believe what ever they want.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Lisa in WA said:


> THAT sounds fantastic. How do you eat them? My grandma always made oyster stew on Christmas Eve.
> I’ll eat oysters pretty much any way I can get them.


The only way we had them growing up was fried with cracker crumbs and a little pepper. We got them in a can and it was kind of a big deal back in the old days from what I hear. But after marrying a girl that lived right on the water we eat oysters in all sorts of ways now. I like them all of those ways, even raw, but my favorite is a chowder recipe that was in my wife's family. It's really good but can produce room clearing flatulence almost immediately, (it's the cabbage), so probably not the best choice for family gatherings.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Another Appalachian custom was to holler "Christmas gift" to someone on Christmas. You didn't give them anything, just hollered at them. The idea was to get them before they got you. People would hide in other people's woodshed to holler Christmas gift at them.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

I grew up and thankfully still live in Appalachia! I remember this so well. One of our traditions growing up was to be the first person to say "Happy Christmas Eve Gift" to everyone you met before they said it to you. If the phone rang on Christmas Eve that's how you answered the phone. If you said it first the person was supposed to give you a gift. Usually candy canes. Everyone kept them in their pockets just in case. Then that evening everyone got together for Christmas Eve dinner and exchanged 1 gift. And yes oysters were on the menu in some shape or form. Miss those days so much!


barnbilder said:


> Another Appalachian custom was to holler "Christmas gift" to someone on Christmas. You didn't give them anything, just hollered at them. The idea was to get them before they got you. People would hide in other people's woodshed to holler Christmas gift at them.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

we had oyster chowder made from canned smoked oysters ,cream and whatnot .no cabbage. it was delicious! I haven't had it for quite some time.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

barnbilder said:


> People would hide in other people's woodshed to holler Christmas gift at them.


I think that tradition got started when someone got caught stealing some firewood.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I don't see how it could have any other meaning regardless of to whom it was said.
> That logic would be like thinking racial epithets aren't bad as long as you only use them at home.



I don't think her grandparents' descriptive terminology rises to the level of a racial epithet. Not exactly a compliment but obviously explained that it wasn't used to hurt anyone.
The reference isn't new or uncommon either.
https://www.google.com/search?q=people+that+go+to+church+only+christmas+and+easter&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

farmrbrown said:


> I don't think her grandparents' descriptive terminology rises to the level of a racial epithet. Not exactly a compliment but obviously explained that it wasn't used to hurt anyone.
> The reference isn't new or uncommon either.
> https://www.google.com/search?q=people+that+go+to+church+only+christmas+and+easter&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


Namecalling is not new or uncommon but it isn’t nice and it doesn’t become those who call themselves Christian. Nor does defending namecalling because of a personal feud with another poster about you being a sock puppet and not admitting it when others have had to.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Here it's just a holiday to hopefully spend time with family. Most times we are able and sometimes not. I don't need a special day to celebrate my beliefs.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

wr said:


> I'll have to review because I must have missed comments insulting other faiths.


There really wasn't any, but I didn't put a microscope to it.
When I read the title, I hesitated but eventually waded in, lol.
And I can understand how PW's post could have rubbed a sensitive area, but that was the heart of the original question, wasn't it?
'How do you view (or judge) this holiday?'

The honest answer for some of us may be way different than others, but I think we can all agree to let the best come out of us and celebrate THAT.

Merry Christmas, y'all.
And a Happy New year!


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Here it's just a holiday to hopefully spend time with family. Most times we are able and sometimes not. I don't need a special day to celebrate my beliefs.


farmrbrown said:


> There really wasn't any, but I didn't put a microscope to it.
> When I read the title, I hesitated but eventually waded in, lol.
> And I can understand how PW's post could have rubbed a sensitive area, but that was the heart of the original question, wasn't it?
> 'How do you view (or judge) this holiday?'
> ...


Merry Christmas Farmerbrown. 

All is well in Dixie. LSU is going to the playoffs. First time eva.......


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

farmrbrown said:


> And I can understand how PW's post could have rubbed a sensitive area, but that was the heart of the original question, wasn't it?
> 'How do you view (or judge) this holiday


No, *Energy Rebel.*... it wasn’t. It was a fairly lighthearted thread asking how people celebrated the holiday. As a religious holiday or as a secular holiday. Which the poster in question didn’t even bother to answer. She just let everyone know what kind of Christians her grandparents were.

Since you aren’t answering, is that tacit agreement that your current username is a sock puppet and you are in fact, Energy Rebel?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> *I don't think* her grandparents' descriptive terminology rises to the level of a racial epithet.


I don't think you really read what I said.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Lisa in WA said:


> No, Energy Rebel.... it wasn’t. It was a fairly lighthearted thread asking how people celebrated the holiday. As a religious holiday or as a secular holiday. Which the poster in question didn’t even bother to answer. She just let everyone know what kind of Christians her grandparents were.


Oh.
Ooops, sorry.

I mistakenly didn't see it that way and looked at it too literally and seriously instead of the way it was intended it.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

mreynolds said:


> Here it's just a holiday to hopefully spend time with family. Most times we are able and sometimes not. I don't need a special day to celebrate my beliefs.
> 
> 
> Merry Christmas Farmerbrown.
> ...


I know, they looked good against Bama, Ga and the rest of the SEC.
But I thought they won a couple of Nat'l Championships already, didn't they?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> The reference *isn't new or uncommon either.*
> https://www.google.com/search?q=people+that+go+to+church+only+christmas+and+easter&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


Lot's of things "aren't new or uncommon".
That's because patterns never change.
I may have pointed that out before.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

farmrbrown said:


> I know, they looked good against Bama, Ga and the rest of the SEC.
> But I thought they won a couple of Nat'l Championships already, didn't they?


I read somewhere it was the first time but I don't know for sure. I am an Aggie.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

mreynolds said:


> I read somewhere it was the first time but I don't know for sure. I am an Aggie.


Oh.
Well, that explains it. 
Either way, it'll make someone feel like a kid on Christmas morning.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

farmrbrown said:


> Oh.
> *Well, that explains it. *
> Either way, it'll make someone feel like a kid on Christmas morning.



Hey, what's that supposed to mean? 

I want to be buried at sea but afraid my Aggie friends will drown digging the hole.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

While I think its roots are pagan and Christian, it's been way commercialized. Our families aren't religious, so we don't do anything with that angle. Now that we have a mortgage and house, we opt out for the monetary gift-giving that we can.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

mreynolds said:


> Hey, what's that supposed to mean?
> 
> I want to be buried at sea but afraid my Aggie friends will drown digging the hole.


LOL.
Just a little football fan teasing.
I understand how an Aggie fan might not pay much attention to LSU's record, even if they are a pretty good team....especially if it's been awhile since Santa paid a visit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_A&M_Aggies_football
Hey!
I never knew the Bear coached y'all at one time!
Gotta love that quote from him in that link.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

farmrbrown said:


> LOL.
> Just a little football fan teasing.
> I understand how an Aggie fan might not pay much attention to LSU's record, even if they are a pretty good team....especially if it's been awhile since Santa paid a visit.
> 
> ...


We hold on to that memory. 

AND

*The reason the Longhorns wear orange. *

They can go to the game on Saturday. 

Go hunting on Sunday

And go back to picking up trash on the road on Monday.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I grew up and thankfully still live in Appalachia! I remember this so well. One of our traditions growing up was to be the first person to say "Happy Christmas Eve Gift" to everyone you met before they said it to you. If the phone rang on Christmas Eve that's how you answered the phone. If you said it first the person was supposed to give you a gift. Usually candy canes. Everyone kept them in their pockets just in case. Then that evening everyone got together for Christmas Eve dinner and exchanged 1 gift. And yes oysters were on the menu in some shape or form. Miss those days so much!


Yes thanks for reminding me. That was the impetus for getting those words out first, they had to give you something if you did. Oranges were a big thing too, a special treat for children, not an everyday food back then.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

One tradition I always said I'd like to implement but was threated with death by my kids-
My grandparents had Christmas one year and all 6 of the kids were given a single gift, except for the youngest and his cousin, who was staying with them at the time. 
As the two boys continued to look around and under the tree Grandma would have it no longer and pinched Grandpa, who said, "Well, I think maybe Santa left a little something for you two boys on the porch. Why don't you both have a go look?"
The two boys ran to the door and went out on the porch, where they found a brand new red wagon with a single orange laying on top. When I was told that story by my Uncle I asked him "Who got the orange?"
"Eh, we both split it?"
"Well, then, who got the wagon?" I asked.
He replied without a second thought "We both did."
Now that the kids are grown I may try to pull it off.


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## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)




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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

For me, it is. That being said, I do not require it be for anyone else. I'm happy to celebrate friendship, family, getting together to share a meal, a dessert & coffee or whatever. I have strong beliefs for myself, but I do my best not to impose them on someone else as a litmus test for getting together with others and enjoying them for who they are.


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## DianeWV (Feb 1, 2007)

It's Christian and plus the tree, decorations, gatherings, lots of foods, personal gifts, and all that jazz. The one thing that I love is joining the church Christmas choir. We have a blast and really "get down" in the choir. LOL! It's a joyous celebration. Merry Christmas everybody!


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Secular, but respect the Christian values


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

While there is much discussion about the commercialization of Christmas, everyone that I've spoken to, seems to feel that pefect gift represents their love for the recipient. 

Most of our clients are people with young families and over the last few years, I've seen a shift from the massive pile of gifts to a single family gift and greater emphasis on travel or experiences. Because they're in new home construction, some are taking their kids with them to other countries to build homes, some simply take a vacation to a warmer climate and several have taken to 'old fashioned Christmas' at the cabin so they can spend the day outdoors, skating, skiing, toboganning or sledding.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

Christmas Christians..just a definition of someone. 
kind of catchy. similar to mobile christians . 
baby buggy, wedding car, hearse,,,
hardly worth the wrath that was bestowed upon it by some self proclaimed good hearted , friendly Christmas loving people..
I saw many references to tradition in this thread.
but one was singled out for ridicule.
I believe Christmas is for children. Our youngest grand child is 27. we don't go big into either the religious or pagan rituals any more.


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## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)

keenataz said:


> Secular, but respect the Christian values


I'll agree with you on the secular aspects, but respectfully, disagree with the "Christian values" part. The history of the holiday is one of assumption and assimilation. Such as "Yule" which was a Germanic holiday celebrating the Wild Hunt and the god, Odin. There were also other mid-winter festivals that were assimilated, such as Saturnalia and Sol Invictus.

As a side note: the concepts of "Hell" and "Shaitan" ("Satan") come from an ancient Persian religion: Zoroastrianism.


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## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

I really see it as a European holiday even though we're devoutly Christian in my family. It's very important given how dreary things become in winter I think to have a celebration. I'm becoming more interested in Christianity as I get older but to me, Christianity (no offense intended to anyone here) is a new bottle with a very fine old wine poured into it -the older wine being European spirituality. 

This year only the kids are getting small gifts and for the adults it's going to be more about taking the time to see family and eating together, that kind of thing. We're trying to pull back from the materialistic nonsense surrounding the holidays but I don't see santa, reindeer, the holiday songs or any of that as a problem. That's part of the tradition.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Christmas Christians..just a definition of someone.
> kind of catchy. similar to mobile christians .
> baby buggy, wedding car, hearse,,,
> hardly worth the wrath that was bestowed upon it by some self proclaimed good hearted , friendly Christmas loving people..
> ...


I'm going to be a Christmas Christian this year and I'm looking forward to it. I'd probably be classified as Pagan to most but my father had dementia and finds comfort in attending mass again. 

He's asked to go to midnight mass at the mission on the reserve (which isn't at midnight) and since I'm closest to both locations, I'll be attending for the first time in decades. 

The service is in Blackfoot and English, the nativity is Blackfoot style and time spent with my father is a good enough reason for me to go to church this year.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> I'm going to be a Christmas Christian this year and I'm looking forward to it. I'd probably be classified as Pagan to most but my father had dementia and finds comfort in attending mass again.
> 
> He's asked to go to midnight mass at the mission on the reserve (which isn't at midnight) and since I'm closest to both locations, I'll be attending for the first time in decades.
> 
> The service is in Blackfoot and English, the nativity is Blackfoot style and time spent with my father is a good enough reason for me to go to church this year.


I’ve always found that most church goers don’t mind. The ones who classify others as Christmas and Easter Christians are more worried about the non regular attenders taking up too many seats.
I’ve been to Mass in Gaelic, Latin and one in Polish but never a native or First Nations language. I’m not even Catholic, but my aunts were always worried about our immortal souls so we attended a lot of Masses. They tended to have a lot of priests and nuns over for dinner when we were around too. Good times. 
When my daughter was an Irish Step dancer they frequently had Mass beforehand at Feiseanna (festivals and competitions) in Gaelic. It was lovely.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I was Christmas Christian often in my youth. It made some of my family very happy. That made me happy. I was also a Ceremonial Buddhist for the ceremonies and rituals my other grandparents performed in the observance of their religion. There are certain Buddist ceremonies observing their passing that are still performed in remembrance of them. I also participated in Jewish ceremonies with the part of my family that follow that religion for weddings and holidays.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Does Christmas have pagan aspects? Yes. But as with anything, it is what you make of it and how far you participate in it. When you read the Nativity Story about the birth of Jesus, it absolutely was a celebration. The star marked the guiding light for 2 years leading to Christ birth. The star on our tree represents that. The angels said Hark! I bring you tidings of great joy! They were celebrating! And the host of angels burst forth in joy and song. They told the Shepherds leave their flocks and come see! A Shepherd never left his flock. So this was a huge deal. It is the absolute greatest birthday ever. It drew kings from around the world to come celebrate it who brought great gifts. So us as Christians setting aside a day to remember it is absolutely ok. As to the tree. God said his heavenly sanctuary is adorned with the cedar, the fir and the pine tree as he loves their aroma. So if they are good enough for God's sanctuary, they are good enough for my living room. Adorned with the star and white lights that represent the light of the world. In our house we give 3 gifts. 2 that are needed items and 1 want gift. We don't do santa or other traditions. We keep it simple. Our neighbors celebrate epiphany the week after Christmas. We celebrate thatvwith them as well. It's a nice drawn out holiday for us. Keeping the focus on our beliefs the whole time.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’ve always found that most church goers don’t mind. The ones who classify others as Christmas and Easter Christians are more worried about the non regular attenders taking up too many seats.
> I’ve been to Mass in Gaelic, Latin and one in Polish but never a native or First Nations language. I’m not even Catholic, but my aunts were always worried about our immortal souls so we attended a lot of Masses. They tended to have a lot of priests and nuns over for dinner when we were around too. Good times.
> When my daughter was an Irish Step dancer they frequently had Mass beforehand at Feiseanna (festivals and competitions) in Gaelic. It was lovely.


Our community is small and most will be so happy to see my dad that there will be no concerns about my presence. My maternal aunt may mention that it's about time she saw me but it she means nothing unkind.

My other aunt is a very devout Catholic and I speak with her weekly and every time I talk to her, she always asks if I'd be upset if she were to pray for me and I always accept her offer. It makes me feel good to know she thinks of me at least once a day.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

wr said:


> Our community is small and most will be so happy to see my dad that there will be no concerns about my presence. My maternal aunt may mention that it's about time she saw me but it she means nothing unkind.
> 
> My other aunt is a very devout Catholic and I speak with her weekly and every time I talk to her, she always asks if I'd be upset if she were to pray for me and I always accept her offer. It makes me feel good to know she thinks of me at least once a day.


That’s sweet that she asks and sweet that you accept. Though I’ve always thought it odd when some folks get upset when others pray for them. Especially professed atheists. If you don’t believe, then it should make no difference.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I am a professed atheist. I have never been upset with anyone praying for me when it was truly heartfelt and all from love. Don't like it when they use it as a weapon though. It has even happened here on HT.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

Now don't get angry,
but during wwII there was a saying that there were no atheists in a foxhole.
One of my best friends is an atheist .
my wife believes in reincarnation. I do not..


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I guess it's natural for some to get a little bent out of shape at being described as a "casual" Christians, but it was like that from the beginning. It's "milk" and "meat" in verses by Peter and Paul.
What several noted was that if you are still celebrating Dec. 25th as the birth of Christ, that's ok. It's good that you know enough about Him and show your love.
But it also shows that you still have plenty of "meat" left to enjoy.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Now don't get angry,
> but during wwII there was a saying that there were no atheists in a foxhole.
> One of my best friends is an atheist .
> my wife believes in reincarnation. I do not..


No offense here. Heard that before. Seriously thought about it as well. Each person decides for themselves.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

I believe Christmas is a Christian holiday. If you don't want to celebrate it as such, There are a plethora of other holidays that are around the same time. Pagan, Jewish, African, etc.. Christians have incorporated some aspects of these other holidays in their celebration and that is cool.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> I am a professed atheist. I have never been upset with anyone praying for me when it was truly heartfelt and all from love. Don't like it when they use it as a weapon though. It has even happened here on HT.


A wise man called Fennick explained to me that those that use their religion as a weapon against those that don't believe as they do are lacking faith. It frightens them and they attack. It's sound information.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Farmerga said:


> I believe Christmas is a Christian holiday. If you don't want to celebrate it as such, There are a plethora of other holidays that are around the same time. Pagan, Jewish, African, etc.. Christians have incorporated some aspects of these other holidays in their celebration and that is cool.


I disagree. To suggest it must be celebrated as a Christian Holiday only, indicates that one must share your beliefs and celebrate your way, which seems a bit harsh. 

I can't see why you would be bothered by someone who celebrates the day differently than you.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

That isn’t what was said.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I see it as a commercial season to keep the economy moving.
If I saw it as Christian I would be attending church and be enjoying the gift of faith and fellowship.
If the latter I would have no need for further gifts of a worldly nature as it may not be christian.


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## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

Farmerga said:


> I believe Christmas is a Christian holiday. If you don't want to celebrate it as such, There are a plethora of other holidays that are around the same time. Pagan, Jewish, African, etc.. Christians have incorporated some aspects of these other holidays in their celebration and that is cool.


I come from a super religious christian family but I have to point out the irony of that sentiment. I mean, your feelings on the matter are the same as most of my family but if you dive into Christmas.. it was kind of a holiday of debauchery for a long time. The festivity itself even up until the 19th century was more something the church was attempting to reign in and supplant than an existing christian holiday. That's why we shove the birth into this time even though all of our denominations as far as I'm aware believe he was born on another date. Even Santa, we assume the common notion that he evolved from Saint Nicholas but really Santa and his reindeer evolved from the Norse mythology. Santa is Odin... with some mashing in of saint nick.

I do think the modern christian version of the holiday is beautiful though.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

wr said:


> I disagree. To suggest it must be celebrated as a Christian Holiday only, indicates that one must share your beliefs and celebrate your way, which seems a bit harsh.
> 
> I can't see why you would be bothered by someone who celebrates the day differently than you.


I agree.
It's a big enough party for all to attend. And after 17 centuries, it's hard to keep it all straight.
https://www.whychristmas.com/customs/25th.shtml


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> It frightens them and they attack.


Some treat any and all responses as "attacks".

What made you decide Christmas wasn't all about Christ?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> painterswife said: ↑
> I am a professed atheist


You keep repeating yourself.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Some treat any and all responses as "attacks".
> 
> What made you decide Christmas wasn't all about Christ?


I don't believe in god, therefore I don't believe that christ is the son of god. I did have faith, but I don't any longer.

What do you believe? Do you have a religion? Do you believe in god? Do you have faith in a higher power?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I don't believe in god, therefore I don't believe that christ is the son of god.


What made you stop?



Irish Pixie said:


> Do you have a religion?


Not really.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> What made you stop?
> 
> 
> Not really.


Thank you for responding.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Thank you for responding.


I almost always respond.
Most of the time you don't like it.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I resemble that remark.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

In the spirit of the season, I hope everyone enjoys these Amish Christmas light displays:


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

dyrne said:


> I come from a super religious christian family but I have to point out the irony of that sentiment. I mean, your feelings on the matter are the same as most of my family but if you dive into Christmas.. it was kind of a holiday of debauchery for a long time. The festivity itself even up until the 19th century was more something the church was attempting to reign in and supplant than an existing christian holiday. That's why we shove the birth into this time even though all of our denominations as far as I'm aware believe he was born on another date. Even Santa, we assume the common notion that he evolved from Saint Nicholas but really Santa and his reindeer evolved from the Norse mythology. Santa is Odin... with some mashing in of saint nick.
> 
> I do think the modern christian version of the holiday is beautiful though.


Santa is most definitely St. Nicholas. The things that he did for other human beings because of his faith are legendary. People attributed Odin-like qualities to him as a matter of respect. Odin never compelled anyone to do the things that St. Nicholas did. Those people had celebrated Odin for centuries, so when they found a man capable of great things had walked among them, they celebrated that man and the faith that drove him to do the things he did, they celebrated that in the way their culture predicated them to do so. In some instances it is not so much the church bastardizing the pagan celebrations as the pagans bastardizing the church, as in the case of St. Nicholas.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

To me it is when I celebrate the birth of Christ (who knows or who cares the actual date of birth) and we use every method available from lights, food, songs, trees, gifts, etc. I love Christmas because it represents to me what Christ teaches and that's love which shows itself in so many ways. I see love in time spent with family and friends, in charity work, in folks being kind and helping others during this season, and in gifts. Having a tree doesn't make me any more of a pagan than having a nativity decoration makes a pagan a Christian. Things are objects. It's what those objects mean to us that matter and we get to decide what they mean. I also like that the holiday season (yes, I said holiday because there are a whole cluster of holidays right there together) helps get me through the dreary winter days of December. Without Christmas, December would just be another January!


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

dyrne said:


> I come from a super religious christian family but I have to point out the irony of that sentiment. I mean, your feelings on the matter are the same as most of my family but if you dive into Christmas.. it was kind of a holiday of debauchery for a long time. The festivity itself even up until the 19th century was more something the church was attempting to reign in and supplant than an existing christian holiday. That's why we shove the birth into this time even though all of our denominations as far as I'm aware believe he was born on another date. Even Santa, we assume the common notion that he evolved from Saint Nicholas but really Santa and his reindeer evolved from the Norse mythology. Santa is Odin... with some mashing in of saint nick.
> 
> I do think the modern christian version of the holiday is beautiful though.


Yes I am aware of the history and the blending of traditions. I am speaking of today.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

wr said:


> I disagree. To suggest it must be celebrated as a Christian Holiday only, indicates that one must share your beliefs and celebrate your way, which seems a bit harsh.
> 
> I can't see why you would be bothered by someone who celebrates the day differently than you.


You can celebrate "the day" anyway you wish, but, the fact that Christ is in the name of the holiday, means that it is Christian. If one has a party on July 4th, without a thought of American independence day, are they celebrating Independence day?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Farmerga said:


> You can celebrate "the day" anyway you wish, but, the fact that Christ is in the name of the holiday, means that it is Christian. If one has a party on July 4th, without a thought of American independence day, are they celebrating Independence day?


Most people don't have a thought of Independence of July 4th. Unless it's the Independence to get drunk.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

For those that want to celebrate the holiday as a practice of good will and peace, that's great.
But for those that think all of the traditions are rooted in the worship of Christ, I would encourage you to read Jeremiah chapter 10 before you cement your conclusion.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> I would encourage you to read Jeremiah chapter 10 before you cement your conclusion.


Most can't make it through all 10 Commandments


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Farmerga said:


> You can celebrate "the day" anyway you wish, but, the fact that Christ is in the name of the holiday, means that it is Christian. If one has a party on July 4th, without a thought of American independence day, are they celebrating Independence day?


Do those that don't celebrate as you designate get kicked out of the secret Christmas Club or does Santa simply move them to the naughty list. 

I personally view Christmas as a over the top consumer event that has long since forgotten Pagan or Christian values but if you truly want to retain exclusive rights to the day, I'm fully prepared to let you retain them.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

wr said:


> Do those that don't celebrate as you designate get kicked out of the secret Christmas Club or does Santa simply move them to the naughty list.
> 
> I personally view Christmas as a over the top consumer event that has long since forgotten Pagan or Christian values but if you truly want to retain exclusive rights to the day, I'm fully prepared to let you retain them.


I don't think you are understanding what I am saying.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Most can't make it through all 10 Commandments


Maybe, but that might be why He started it with #1.


Did ya read it yet?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Farmerga said:


> I don't think you are understanding what I am saying.


The question is, do YOU understand what you're saying?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Farmerga said:


> I don't think you are understanding what I am saying.


I understand very well what you're saying but unfortunately, it doesn't seem that too many people follow your beliefs on how the day should be celebrated. I'm simply of the opinion that if one is going to suggest heavily emphasizing the Christian aspect of the day, there wasn't too much peace on earth or good will toward men at Walmart yesterday. 

I always find myself a bit confused when watching people express their love for others by way of plastic toys and consumer goods.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Bearfootfarm said: ↑
> Most can't make it through all 10 Commandments





farmrbrown said:


> *Maybe*, but that might be why He started it with #1.
> 
> 
> Did ya read it yet?


There's no "maybe" involved.
I know the truth.
Liars can't be believed.
I don't write the rules.



> The Eighth Commandment condemns lying. Because God is regarded as the author of all truth, *the Church believes that humans are obligated to honor the truth*.
> The most obvious way to fulfill this commandment is not to _lie_ — *intentionally deceive* another by speaking a falsehood.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

wr said:


> I understand very well what you're saying but unfortunately, it doesn't seem that too many people follow your beliefs on how the day should be celebrated. I'm simply of the opinion that if one is going to suggest heavily emphasizing the Christian aspect of the day, there wasn't too much peace on earth or good will toward men at Walmart yesterday.
> 
> I always find myself a bit confused when watching people express their love for others by way of plastic toys and consumer goods.


My opinion is that it should be a Christian holiday, those who do anything else are not celebrating Christmas, but, rather something else. In other words, we are largely in agreement.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Isn't the English language entertaining?


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Jeremiah 10 is all about building idols and worshipping them. It has nothing to do with a Christmas tree. Nobody is worshipping a tree or a holiday. But celebrating the remembrance of a day that was a day of salvation for all the world. Definitely sounds like a day and moment to be remembered and celebrated.


farmrbrown said:


> For those that want to celebrate the holiday as a practice of good will and peace, that's great.
> But for those that think all of the traditions are rooted in the worship of Christ, I would encourage you to read Jeremiah chapter 10 before you cement your conclusion.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Depends on how you define "worship."


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Isn't the English language entertaining?


It's a shame more aren't fluent.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm, you are correct. I got into a FB conflagration the other day. People fling around words like they are rocks (or maybe confetti,) but they don't know what they MEAN! They also get testy if you explain that.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> They also get testy if you explain that.


Some have an aversion to the truth.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Yep.
They don't like the words, don't like the truth and darn sure don't want take go to the source for the answers.
Even gentle prodding will bring out some very visceral reactions.
As I said in my first post, when you find out the truth about Dec. 25th, you'll either be mad at the ones who made up the stories or be mad at the ones who told you the stories were made up, lol.
The easiest way to get over it, is open the Bible and look for yourself. If you can find a "Christian holiday" anywhere or examples where those customs were acceptable to God, then you'll have your answer.
But for some reason, people will take anyone else's word on a subject but His.

That doesn't mean that if you ignore scripture and continue to celebrate it any way you want, you're a bucket of deplorables, lol.
I think most people never get past the milk message and start eating meat - and that's ok. There's plenty of time. Besides it's what's in their heart that counts.
Just try not to stay mad at the messenger who stopped by once or twice in a lifetime.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Jeremiah 10 is all about building idols and worshipping them. It has nothing to do with a Christmas tree. Nobody is worshipping a tree or a holiday. But celebrating the remembrance of a day that was a day of salvation for all the world. Definitely sounds like a day and moment to be remembered and celebrated.



That one hit a little too close to home didn't it?
A hand cut tree nailed down to stand up, decorated with silver and gold.
Nope, that's not a Christmas tree.
The commercialism that is built around the rest of this holiday should show you whether it has something to do with idol worship or not.
Some use it to celebrate salvation for the world, but most use it as a lust for the things of this world. At least the advertisers on TV hope so.

But you're right. Remembering a day of salvation for the world is important and one of the 3 "holidays" listed in scripture.
It's a joy to celebrate too.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

As I have studied the history of what Christians call their holy book, I don’t consider it a valid source.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Christian holiday and also Santa takes the cake in our home. Three kids who are very much into the magic of Santa,Reindeer and Elves


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I have seen suggestions to read certain parts of the bible.
That is assuming that everyone here has a bible.
A bit short sighted, imho..
Did you know that Jesus never read the new testament ? Was Jesus a christian ? just asking..


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I have seen suggestions to read certain parts of the bible.
> That is assuming that everyone here has a bible.
> A bit short sighted, imho..
> Did you know that Jesus never read the new testament ? Was Jesus a christian ? just asking..


Easy questions to answer if ya think about for as minute or two.
As far as looking things up, the internet has replaced a Smithsonian Library of books by now.
I prefer my dog eared one from childhood but don't really need it to read citations.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Yep.
> They don't like the words, don't like the truth and darn sure don't want take go to the source for the answers.
> Even gentle prodding will bring out some very visceral reactions.


Often "the source" won't answer the questions that were really asked.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Often "the source" won't answer the questions that were really asked.


Sometimes they give you everything you asked and then some.
In this case the ultimate source has all the answers but they aren't what they want to hear or they conflict with what they've been told by parents, friends, etc.
I really think that folks are sincerely trying to honor their beliefs in following traditions that were never mentioned or told to observe pertaining to the "first Christmas".
The fact that you have to try so hard to keep the materialism and commercialism OUT of it, is a sign that it will always be a holiday that isn't strictly a religious one.


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## dr doright (Sep 15, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Or is it entirely secular for you? Just the lights, Santa Claus, presents and cookie?
> Or do you celebrate something else that falls during “the holidays”? Yule, Kwanza, Hanukkah?
> 
> My family celebrates it as a Christian holiday..the birth of Christ but with plenty of secular trappings.


It IS named CHRISTmas, right? If a person does not believe in Christ, what are they celebrating for?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

1870

During Reformation and up until the middle of the *1800s*, Christmas was often not celebrated because partying and merry making was seen as unchristian. From about *1840,* celebrating Christmas became more widespread. *December 25* was declared a federal holiday in the United States in *1870*.
*Christmas Day in the United States - Time and Date*

https://www.timeanddate.com › holidays › us › christmas-day


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## dr doright (Sep 15, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Interest choice of words to say folks “revile” Christmas as being derived from a pagan holiday. It’s just a discussion of history. Pagans are simply folks who follow different traditions than Christians.
> 
> Words choices.


Pagans do not simply follow different traditions from Christians. Christian traditions are based upon a real person who lived, died, rose from the dead and was seen by hundreds of witnesses. Oh, and who claimed to be God in the flesh, which he demonstrated through miracles, His teachings, His fulfillment of many prophecies hundreds of years old, and who was resurrected. What exactly are pagan traditions based upon?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Saturnalia works for me. Who doesn't like merrymaking?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Saturnalia works for me. Who doesn't like merrymaking?


Yule works for me, Saturnalia too.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Sometimes they give you everything you asked and then some.


Mostly they just ramble and pretend they don't understand the real questions.


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

I want to have faith, but I am agnostic. I keep christs message in mind during christmas. I enjoy giving and helping. I enjoy the flellowship


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

farmrbrown said:


> That one hit a little too close to home didn't it?
> A hand cut tree nailed down to stand up, decorated with silver and gold.
> Nope, that's not a Christmas tree.
> The commercialism that is built around the rest of this holiday should show you whether it has something to do with idol worship or not.
> ...


It doesn't hit close to home. Your interpretation of Jeremiah 10 tells me all I need to know about your discernment of scripture. Isaiah 44 touches on idol building and worship much in the same manor. These Bible verses speak about building and crafting a God. A tree is a symbol at best. Not a God. It's not carved or crafted. I believe col chapter 2 has some things to say on keeping festivals and holy days. Christmas from secular perspective is very commercial. It's the same in many Christian homes as well. But I don't know a single Christian who is worshipping a tree or the holiday itself. But it's using that day to spread love and joy. Did you know that Christmas Sunday is the one holiday that draws more non church goers than any other religious holiday? So right, wrong or indifferent it puts more people in the pews who have a chance to hear the word and possibly come to know Christ than at any other time of the year. If you cant read the accounts of Christ birth and see the celebration aspect of it that it was to the angels and the world back then, then you are hardening your own heart to the opportunities the celebration of it today, offers the world now.


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## renia54 (Jul 13, 2016)

ET1 SS said:


> We see this holiday as purely secular.
> 
> Our church has looked closely at the prophecies in Daniel, the star charts, etc, and they have exhaustively documented the date of Jesus' birth to somewhere in August/September.
> 
> The history of this holiday is an interesting study. But it has no connection to any Biblical event.


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## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)

dr doright said:


> Pagans do not simply follow different traditions from Christians. *Christian traditions are based upon a real person who lived, died, rose from the dead and was seen by hundreds of witnesses. Oh, and who claimed to be God in the flesh, which he demonstrated through miracles, His teachings, His fulfillment of many prophecies hundreds of years old, and who was resurrected. * What exactly are pagan traditions based upon?


I believe that you are reciting the Epic of Gilgamesh.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I have never heard of Christmas Sunday,
I have heard of Easter Sunday.
Non christians celebrate christmas because it is just a name of a holiday. It could be called charlesmas or jamesmas or whatever. as long as people get the day off with pay, it works for them..


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Vahomesteaders said:


> It doesn't hit close to home. Your interpretation of Jeremiah 10 tells me all I need to know about your discernment of scripture. Isaiah 44 touches on idol building and worship much in the same manor. These Bible verses speak about building and crafting a God. A tree is a symbol at best. Not a God. It's not carved or crafted. I believe col chapter 2 has some things to say on keeping festivals and holy days. Christmas from secular perspective is very commercial. It's the same in many Christian homes as well. But I don't know a single Christian who is worshipping a tree or the holiday itself. But it's using that day to spread love and joy. Did you know that Christmas Sunday is the one holiday that draws more non church goers than any other religious holiday? So right, wrong or indifferent it puts more people in the pews who have a chance to hear the word and possibly come to know Christ than at any other time of the year. If you cant read the accounts of Christ birth and see the celebration aspect of it that it was to the angels and the world back then, then you are hardening your own heart to the opportunities the celebration of it today, offers the world now.



I haven't hardened my heart to it and I thought that was clear in all my previous posts. I've known many good Christians far better than I, who looked forward to the Christian holidays with joy every year. Above all it is NOT my place to judge them.
As far as discerning scripture though, there's a reason this makes people prickly. That's the Holy Spirit thru the Word, not me. The NT DOES in fact encourage us to keep the festivals and holy days. Knowing what they are and are not, shows how much one is willing to learn and accept.
Is following a man made tradition more important and sacred than His?

This started with exclusive intentions, not inclusive ones in 325 A.D. as a way of separating the growing Christian religion from the Jewish roots it sprang from.
The simple truth is, and the answer to the OP's question - there ARE "Christian holidays" but you won't find them anywhere in scripture, not even the single reference in the NT of Easter is factually correct. The manuscripts say "paschal".
While it isn't expressly prohibited, the only birthday celebration mentioned is in Genesis and it isn't a case of flattering encouragement either.
https://www.hope-of-israel.org/OTbirthdays.html


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