# Is there a Liberal Militia?



## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

In discussion today, the question was raised: Is there such a thing as a Liberal Militia? Or a Moderate Militia? 

We are not considering Elf nor Green Peace. Is there a private, Radically Rational, Moderate Militia? If so, who and where and why.

Thank you.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Militias are illegal in NY State so I don't know of any militias at all.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Before I answer, are you worried about one or are you looking to join one?


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

The separatist militia in Quebec is for the most part pretty left-wing


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

TheMartianChick said:


> Militias are illegal in NY State so I don't know of any militias at all.


Would that include neighborhood watches and Scout troops as well ?


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## chickenslayer (Apr 20, 2010)

I guess the black panthers would be considered liberal


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Depending on the type of liberal I would guess no. Most of the liberals I know are granola, ex hippy types and unless they could conquer their enemies with magic "trojan horse" brownies they wouldn't be too intimidating. Those sorts and guns are like oil and water.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Just the question cracks me up.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Is there a conservative militia?


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Ernie and others:
No, we are not worried about a Moderate Militia nor are we seeking to join one. In a discussion this morning, the question was asked: Is there such a thing as a Moderate Rational Militia? 

We did not know the answer. We did think of "Liberal" Militia type groups..... such as some might consider ELF or GreenPeace as "liberal" (And yes, someone above pointed out The Black Panthers) ....but we could not think of any groups that might be called/considered Moderate or Rational thinking Militias. 

And, I thought someone here might have ideas. It is not a trick question - just part of a breakfast debate. Thanks!


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't believe you're going to find "moderate" or "rational thinking" leftist militias. It's like looking for a vegetarian lion in Africa. The mindsets don't line up correctly.

Some leftist militia groups in the United States:

*The Weather Underground*: This originated in the United States in 1969 as a radical leftist revolutionary organization. In the early 70's they bombed government buildings and robbed banks. They also accepted $20k to bust Timothy Leary out of prison and get him out of the country. Ironically, the Weather Underground actually went underground and some former members have resurfaced into mainstream society as members of Obama's council as contributors and advisors. 

*Zapatista Army of National Liberation*: This is a primarily Marxist group that started in Mexico and has been fighting the Mexican government for years. Primarily they are associated with rural indians in Mexico, but they have been gaining a lot of ground here in the United States with illegals from those rural Mexican areas crossing illegally into our country. Right now in America they are primarily involved in political actions and can usually be spotted in any crowd of immigration "reformers" or immigrant rights protests. Look for people in the crowd with signs bearing the letters "EZLN" or wearing red armbands or headbands. They advocate for the return of traditional Mexican lands to the people (themselves) and the ousting of white oppressors (you).

*Black Guerilla Family*: Much of the action of this group takes place in prisons across America and so it's not well known to most Americans. They want to eradicate racism (by killing all white people), reform prisons (by freeing themselves out of prisons), and overthrow the American government. Most of their activities now are illegal, such as drug dealing and prostitution. 

This is a few of the leftist groups operating inside of the United States. They tend to be much more active than patriot militia groups, who mostly just dress up in fatigues and run around in the woods on weekends.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

might be interesting to converse with the boys in such a outfit.......

I shan't hold my breath waiting to do so.............


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

meanwhile said:


> Ernie and others:
> No, we are not worried about a Moderate Militia nor are we seeking to join one. In a discussion this morning, the question was asked: Is there such a thing as a Moderate Rational Militia?
> 
> We did not know the answer. We did think of "Liberal" Militia type groups..... such as some might consider ELF or GreenPeace as "liberal" (And yes, someone above pointed out The Black Panthers) ....but we could not think of any groups that might be called/considered Moderate or Rational thinking Militias.
> ...


Now you are confuseing me with this word "Rational". So are you saying that the Folks in the Michigan Militia here, are not "rational"???


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

TnAndy said:


> Would that include neighborhood watches and Scout troops as well ?


Nope... Those are legal. I was a girl scout and a member of a neighborhood watch!

I wasn't aware of the fact that militias aren't legal in NY until recently. A rural community not too far from here is interested in starting one. The point was raised that it would not be legal in the state. The organizer tried to say that the group would really be just a neighborhood watch but he doesn't want to call it that. He specifically wants to call it a militia. There is no resolution to this matter at this time.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Yes, there is indeed a Liberal Militia. They're called the UN. The UN militia is deployed around the world, to try and prevent different groups from open warfare.

If/when the next Uncivil War in this country breaks out, the only hope the Left has is for the UN blue helmets to ride in to the rescue. I know some liberals who are well armed (several of our friends here at HT are well equipped for invasion)... but they're the exception to the rule. Without the UN, the 'conflict' would be very short.

I believe at the beginning of our countries history, every able bodied male over the age of 18 was "the militia".


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## Fingerlakes77 (Oct 5, 2010)

Ya that group in Hannibal I read about on Syracuse.com. I'm not sure about the group in Hannibal, but in my opinion I don't know if I'd label militias as necessarily "radical". I'm sure some of them are. A few probably have a bunch of lunatics in them. Some are probably normal albeit "conservative". But I think that is more of a function of the fact that believing in self defense, preparedness, and the Constitution have somehow become conservative instead of just normal.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Let me start over:
Is there such a thing as a Moderate Rational Thinking Militia?

And, no, we were not trying to call anyone "names" nor suggesting any other group was or was not "rational"! I don't think the UN is a militia group but I see your point.

We were just talking about groups, politics and militias came up in the discussion. Then, it was wondered out-loud, if all militias were "conservative" and were they "conservative" in politics only or "conservative" in all things......and so the question was then raised if there is such a thing as a Moderate Militia........then another person added the Rational to the talk........

So - seem like the answer might be "No", there does not seem to be any Moderate Militia groups.

Thanks!


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Ever looked at South America? All sorts of really nasty murdering left wing groups there.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_(United_States)

The role of *militia*, also known as military service and duty, in the United States is complex and has transformed over time.<SUP id=cite_ref-spitzer36_0-0 class=reference>[1]</SUP> The term _militia_ can be used to describe any number of groups within the United States. Types of militia within modern US:
US CODE
TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > Â§ 311 Â§ 311. Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The official classes of the militia areâ
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

The *organized militia* created by the Militia Act of 1903, which split from the 1792 Uniform Militia forces, and consist of State militia forces, notably the National Guard and the Naval Militia.<SUP id=cite_ref-dod_1-0 class=reference>[2]</SUP> The National Guard however, is not to be confused with the National Guard of the United States, which is a federally recognized reserve military force, although the two are linked.
The *reserve militia*<SUP id=cite_ref-2 class=reference>[3]</SUP> or *unorganized militia*, also created by the Militia Act of 1903 which presently consist of every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age who are not members of the National Guard or Naval Militia. (that is, anyone who would be eligible for a draft)<SUP id=cite_ref-dod_1-1 class=reference>[2]</SUP>
A *select militia* is composed of a small, non-representative portion of the population, often politicized.<SUP id=cite_ref-3 class=reference>[4]</SUP>
A *private militia*, which are made up of non-officially organized individuals who have formed paramilitary organizations based on their own interpretation of the concept of the militia.
.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

I can vouch, however, that there are well-armed and competent-at-arms liberals. I'm one, and I know many others.

I'm a particular kind of liberal, and I'm not a joiner. The last thing I joined was the Navy, and I like to think I learned my lesson.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Thanks everyone for the discussion and ideas. I think we have decided the "answer" is "maybe" in that like the wiki-link posted above explains, a private militia can be based on each groups interpretation. so - there probably are "moderate" militia groups (most are probably very small) and even "Rational" militia groups (smaller).

It is an interesting topic. Thanks!


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

meanwhile said:


> Thanks everyone for the discussion and ideas. I think we have decided the "answer" is "maybe" in that like the wiki-link posted above explains, a private militia can be based on each groups interpretation. so - there probably are "moderate" militia groups (most are probably very small) and even "Rational" militia groups (smaller).
> 
> It is an interesting topic. Thanks!




The whole "moderate" thing is the issue.

Generally one has to get worked up before they wish to join a movement. Moderates are ... Well moderate.


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## Fat Charlie (Sep 9, 2010)

What we've come to call militia groups really aren't. At best they're innocuous gun clubs and at worst, hate groups. The best nonjudgemental term I can come up with is vigilante groups. They aren't militias- you need some more more connection with the government to call yourself that.

While _the militia_ as a whole is made up of the people, see what Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution says: Congress can call forth the militia and they are to organize, arm and discipline the militia. It is reserved to the states to appoint officers and conduct training. 

Is there a "militia" group out there that has even gotten the local sheriff to acknowledge them enough to "call them out" to help with search and rescue? Is there a militia leader that can claim to have been appointed by his state? Or are they all just concerned, armed citizens who have banded together and organized to fill a gap that they see that needs filling? That's a vigilante group. 

I grew up in Connecticut, and was amused to later learn that the horse unit that marched in parades there was actually a part of the State Militia- the oldest continuously active mounted cavalry unit in the United States, as a matter of fact. They drill weekly, focusing on mounted drill, SAR and crowd control with one week a year at a National Guard camp for field and weapons training. You know, like a militia unit.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Reckon I'd rather deal with local "vigilante" groups than blue helmeted UN troops.

The govt. derives it's power from the people. The people do not derive power from the govt.

May be wrong, won't be the first time... but I'll trust my rural neighbors more than a state or federal sponsored "militia".... as they'd have (more'n likely) an urbanist agenda backing them.

I know of no local Texian militia... but if they were, I'd trust em more than any federal troops, or 'furrin' troops.

Of course, by your own definition of the articles... _Congress can call forth the militia..._ and they are to organize, arm, and discipline them. So, the militia, able bodied 18 yr old or older males, are the militia... and if needed, the Congress can come calling, and ask, dear citizens (the militia), will you come help us drive off the Red Coats? (or, the UN peacekeepers, the welfaristas, the pensionistas, the Golden Horde).


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

stanb999 said:


> The whole "moderate" thing is the issue.
> 
> Generally one has to get worked up before they wish to join a movement. Moderates are ... Well moderate.


Thing is..the definition of terms change...30-50 years ago, my views would be termed moderate. Now, I'm apparently a radical conservative. Even 15-20 years ago, there were some Democratic moderates. They don't seem to exist any more.

I like what Ronald Reagan had to say about this... "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, they left me" (don't know if that is the exact quote but it is close).


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## insocal (May 15, 2005)

hintonlady said:


> Depending on the type of liberal I would guess no. Most of the liberals I know are granola, ex hippy types and unless they could conquer their enemies with magic "trojan horse" brownies they wouldn't be too intimidating. Those sorts and guns are like oil and water.


Actually LOTS of liberals own guns and are very pro-gun. They just don't go around crowing about it. 

The "moderate/liberal" version of a militia is probably the National Guard. I don't know any liberals who aren't big fans of them. And they (the NG) are very mainstream, as you might imagine - not fringe-y at all.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

silverbackMP said:


> Thing is..the definition of terms change...30-50 years ago, my views would be termed moderate. Now, I'm apparently a radical conservative. Even 15-20 years ago, there were some Democratic moderates. They don't seem to exist any more.
> 
> I like what Ronald Reagan had to say about this... "I didn't leave the Democratic Party, they left me" (don't know if that is the exact quote but it is close).


I prefer the terms "bi-lateral extremist" or "flaming moderate"

When I was growing up in Los Angeles, I was a member of a student activist group known as MEChA. I can say part of the platform calls for return of the Southwestern states to the People, not necessarily Mexico. 

When I was member there was some talk of armed rebellion but only in tactical guerilla terms. Those were the days of the Black Panthers, Brown Berets, the Yippies, Abbie Hoffman, the SLA, etc.

I expect there will be some number of the liberal activists who are armed and organized. At the very least I would plan for them as potential threat. If they never show up, that's fine too. The boys in the neighborhood sometimes referred to themselves as the "unorganized neighborhood militia."

Read Abbie Hoffman's books "Woodstock Nation" and "Steal This Book"

The technology in the books is dated but the spirit lives on. Fight!

Have a nice day!


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Yes, the term "moderate" is the tricky part plus the term "Rational". The definitions of both are up for interpretation.....and like someone said above....the definitions change over time...... 

We were not "counting" larger groups like the UN nor the National Guard. We were wondering if there were any smaller community type Moderate groups. 

I don't think "vigilante" groups would count as "Moderate" and yes, I think a lot more "liberal" people own guns than some people would think. Our family is considered "liberal" and it confuses people when they find out we have guns and our boys target shoot and ....."Ye Gads and Little Fishes" when they find out we allow the boys to blow up pumpkins with Tannerite! That is always good for discussion. 

(deleted sarcastic comment - sorry)

I guess the National Guard would come closest to a "Moderate" militia and we never could think of any smaller community type "militia". There probably are some.......in close knit groups. Probably neighbors or family groups. 

In any case.........an interesting breakfast discussion.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

I was remembering that a lot of the left wing were not as much Liberal as they were Socialist/Communist.

The rigid thinking of that philosophy lends itself well to militancy while the individualism of Liberalism doesn't do as well in militant cadres.

An individual Liberal that is armed would be just as deadly as any other opponent.

Have a good day!


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## Calico Katie (Sep 12, 2003)

Just my opinion but it seems that over the past couple of decades the word "militia" has somehow become synonymous with "militant". Not the same thing but in the every day scheme of things, when we hear militia, we do tend to visualize an organized group of militants. The word militant would seem to preclude anyone who called themselves a moderate. They're just words but words have power.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

TheMartianChick said:


> Nope... Those are legal. I was a girl scout and a member of a neighborhood watch!
> 
> I wasn't aware of the fact that militias aren't legal in NY until recently. A rural community not too far from here is interested in starting one. The point was raised that it would not be legal in the state. The organizer tried to say that the group would really be just a neighborhood watch but he doesn't want to call it that. He specifically wants to call it a militia. There is no resolution to this matter at this time.


Well, to be clear TMC, it looks like the under sheriff says they are illegal, what statute does he reference though. I can't seem to find it.

Do you have a link to it?

I find it rather intriguing that NY would think they can outlaw a militia, since at the VERY best they would have to argue that a militia in the terms of the second amendment only apply to the federal government and state government armies. Of course, court rulings are contrary to that, so I am just wondering if NY is that obtuse that they have a statute stating such, or if it's an obscure thing that your under sheriff is attempting to sell to the public.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

Still wondering. In USA the Socialists and Communists are seen as left wing which is called the Liberals? 

But if you live in a country run by Soc/Coms then the Soc/Coms are the Conservatives.

Have a good day!

"Listen to the radio, talkin' about the last show,
Someone got excited, had to call the state militia"
- John Fogerty, Creedence Clearwater Revival


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