# Update to more bad news thread



## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

The only mare I had still in foal (and the only one still bred to Fandango) did foal exactly on schedule last night ... NOT colored and NOT a filly.

The only way it could have been any more depressing was if it had been a filly and not lived ... this has so been my year ... NOT :badmood:


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## Kris in MI (May 30, 2002)

Sorry you didn't get what you were hoping for.

On the other hand. . . . Congratulations on a live, healthy colt!!


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Kris in MI said:


> ing for.
> 
> On the other hand. . . . Congratulations on a live, healthy colt!!


True, that is a plus. But unfortunately, I can't really convince myself yet that it offsets three mares aborting and putting an end to my hopes of getting a filly by the Weltstern son to go on with for my breeding program.

Seems like at my age, losing 2 or 3 years on planned breedings for a foal to keep makes a much bigger impact than it did 20-some years ago when I was 50.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

A colt could have a great impact on your breeding program. I know it's not what you wanted but he could be great. It could be the answer to what you want, but in reverse. If not, finding a buyer shouldn't be hard even tho it won't help your breeding program. 
Pictures?


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Molly Mckee said:


> Pictures?


Unfortunately, issues with cameras/computers is another Murphy situation. One camera works only with the desktop computer that crashed and isn't back from the computer guy yet. The new camera that works with the laptop isn't downloading to the laptop software program and has to wait until the computer guy comes to figure out the problem for me.

If I kept him as a stallion, to be able to use him for sportpony foals, he would have to go to the stallion approvals and I simply do not have the $10,000 +/- to go that route with him. The 2 or 3 mares I would breed to him a year simply doesn't justify that kind of investment plus I'm just not young enough to train a young colt anymore. I can deal with fillies but age and vision impairment makes it unsafe now for me to deal with stallions except for the small ponies, one reason I'm concentrating on keeping the bigger pony mares (14 to 15.2 hands) to breed to the small stallions. Even 10 years ago, I'd have thought seriously about it, but not now.

I don't expect to have difficulty getting him sold, even as a weanling, his bloodlines and movement are impressive, but it certainly isn't what I'd hoped for.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Sorry for your frustrations.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Could you co-own him or retain some breeding rights?


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Molly Mckee said:


> Could you co-own him or retain some breeding rights?


There may be some options, depending on the buyer but he's more likely to sell as a gelding for a performance prospect. And in two more years Carolyn Miller will have a champagne colt out of a Weltstern daughter that I can use. I also have a champagne Weltstern daughter that will be a 3 year old next year and will breed her ... so will still have access to the Weltstern bloodlines.


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

When you say "not colored" what do you mean? I've bred horses all my life but have no experience with this breed. i know in the early years of the AQHA you had to have any "Registered" breeding stallion approved by the association so I'm assuming that is what you're speaking about on that part. Does the association charge $10,000 to have a Breeding stud with papers?

i'm also assuming "Fandango" has won some Welstern shows?


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

rambotex said:


> When you say "not colored" what do you mean? I've bred horses all my life but have no experience with this breed. i know in the early years of the AQHA you had to have any "Registered" breeding stallion approved by the association so I'm assuming that is what you're speaking about on that part. Does the association charge $10,000 to have a Breeding stud with papers?
> 
> i'm also assuming "Fandango" has won some Welstern shows?


When I said 'not colored' I meant that although there was a 50% chance the foal would have his dam's dilute gene which would have produced buckskin or palomino, which are rare in the warmblood breeds, this colt was bay ... no 'fancy' color. Because of the rarity, the "colored" foals ... buckskin, palomino, champagne, silver ... will usually be more marketable.

In the European warmblood breeds (there are several, usually designated by the place they were developed) each breeding animal must be inspected by an official inspector and score highly enough in both conformation and movement to be allowed in the "main book" before their offspring will be eligible to be presented for inspection and approval. They are not registered only on the basis of parentage. For stallions, they must be presented at a 'stallion inspection' after they have been approved with high enough scores to qualify for such testing. These inspections are held annually, at one location and the stallions will be trained for 90 days under saddle by trainers hired by the warmblood associations and then will be scored in hand as well as over fences and in dressage competition. Only those stallions that have qualifying scores in all three phases are 'licensed' and able to produce foals out of approved mares that are in turn eligible to be presented at an inspection for approval for breeding. Very different system that the American breeds where all that is required is a stallion and mare that have papers certifying that their sire and dam are registered with that breed association.

You have to pay for the trainers to ride the stallions, plus their board during the 3 months they are at the stallion inspection and the total costs of transport/board/riding is around $10,000 ... or was the last time I checked into it.

Fandango is the approved son (has gone through the stallion testing and was approved and licensed) of my foundation Oldenburg stallion, Weltstern (now deceased) who was himself licensed and approved in Germany before he was imported to the U.S. Weltstern sired a number of approved sons and has an amazing record of successful upper level competition horses, which is why I want to continue with those bloodlines.


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

Let me ask you a question. Have you made a profit on these Welstern horses or is it more of a passion to you?


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

rambotex said:


> Let me ask you a question. Have you made a profit on these Welstern horses or is it more of a passion to you?


I didn't intend that question to offend. It had a bearing on answering your question on what to do because i think you have a good horse. Some of the best QH's i've ever seen were fullblood but didn't have papers


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I'm sorry Sharon. Definitely not your year.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

rambotex said:


> I didn't intend that question to offend. It had a bearing on answering your question on what to do because i think you have a good horse. Some of the best QH's i've ever seen were fullblood but didn't have papers


What question was that?


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> What question was that?


When i asked if this was for profit or passion


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

rambotex said:


> When i asked if this was for profit or passion


Oh sorry...I thought you wrote that SFM had a question about what to do.


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Oh sorry...I thought you wrote that SFM had a question about what to do.


the answer to that question will determine what my Humble opinion is. that & 4 Bits might get'cha a cup of coffee.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

rambotex said:


> Let me ask you a question. Have you made a profit on these Welstern horses or is it more of a passion to you?





rambotex said:


> I didn't intend that question to offend. It had a bearing on answering your question on what to do because i think you have a good horse. Some of the best QH's i've ever seen were fullblood but didn't have papers


Definitely not offended, and it's both. At my age now, more of a passion than profit, but that is in part because of the changes in the horse market ... lower prices, etc. The market is coming back, but I don't think we will see the extremely high prices that we were seeing in the 90s. I've reduced my numbers so that if they support themselves (or almost, anyway) that's fine ... one or two exceptional foals sold in any one year will provide a profit as well.

The market for warmbloods and the warmblood/sportponies is odd ... buyers who are breeders want youngsters that have full registration and approval with one of the established European registries. For buyers who are looking for competition prospects, there is more flexibility, those buyers are more likely to show interest in some of the horses that are not eligible for full papers if they are from proven performance bloodlines and have closely related animals that are very successful in performance.

The best prices are, of course, for young horses that are started under saddle and showing their ability, but that involves serious investment in time and since I'm no longer able to start young horses, in training fees. My focus has to be on putting foals on the ground that will be the most marketable as weanlings, which means, for the most part, that I need to keep breeding stock that will produce foals that will be eligible for full papers if they are presented for inspection/approval with one of the European warmblood registries.

Since the sportpony registries accept both Connemara Pony and Welsh Pony bloodlines in their registry, if approved by the breed inspectors, I can breed approved warmblood mares to either of the two purebred stallions I now have (one Connemara and one Welsh) and if those foals out of the approved mares are inspected and approved, they will carry the full Book I papers. The same is true of the Connemara and Welsh mares I have. If I breed to an inspected/approved/licensed warmblood sportpony stallion, if the mare and foal are both approved, they will carry Book I warmblood registry papers. I can breed 2 or 3 pony mares to an outside licensed stallion and cheaper than financing the stallion approval process for a sportpony stallion to keep myself.


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## rambotex (May 5, 2014)

I, like you, made money in the 90's. when old Theo died(Ranch Horse Thread) i decided to sell the mares and get out while the get'n was good. 

you may be at that point but nobody knows that but you. i kept one mare and one gelding . my wife and i make it a point to ride at least once a week.


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## Chixarecute (Nov 19, 2004)

Still hoping for pics of the new colt!


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Chixarecute said:


> Still hoping for pics of the new colt!



Me too! Still having camera/computer issues!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

SFM in KY said:


> Unfortunately, issues with cameras/computers is another Murphy situation. One camera works only with the desktop computer that crashed and isn't back from the computer guy yet. The new camera that works with the laptop isn't downloading to the laptop software program and has to wait until the computer guy comes to figure out the problem for me.
> 
> If I kept him as a stallion, to be able to use him for sportpony foals, he would have to go to the stallion approvals and I simply do not have the $10,000 +/- to go that route with him. The 2 or 3 mares I would breed to him a year simply doesn't justify that kind of investment plus I'm just not young enough to train a young colt anymore. I can deal with fillies but age and vision impairment makes it unsafe now for me to deal with stallions except for the small ponies, one reason I'm concentrating on keeping the bigger pony mares (14 to 15.2 hands) to breed to the small stallions. Even 10 years ago, I'd have thought seriously about it, but not now.
> 
> I don't expect to have difficulty getting him sold, even as a weanling, his bloodlines and movement are impressive, but it certainly isn't what I'd hoped for.



Check out using this with your phone that takes photos. http://web.airdroid.com/

It is much easier than regular connections and it works wonderfully.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> Check out using this with your phone that takes photos. http://web.airdroid.com/


I don't have a cell phone, so it's camera and computer as my only option.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

SFM in KY said:


> I don't have a cell phone, so it's camera and computer as my only option.


Glad to see I'm not the only one who hasn't jumped on the so-called smartphone bandwagon. How do people afford them for themselves and their ten year and up children? 

I am glad you got at least one healthy foal. It's been a mighty discouraging year for you. It is funny that you wanted a mare so much. Our neighbor brought back a last of the line, working and rodeo mare from Wyoming. He was so disappointed that she had a filly that he sent her back to Wyoming as soon as she was weaned. His mare is the last of that bloodline and she's dying. 

Can you breed to the same stud next year?


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Joshie said:


> Can you breed to the same stud next year?


Unfortunately, no. He's been sold and in 'serious' training/competition and not available while he's competing.


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Funny - we would prefer colts and we always seem to get more fillies! We outsell our geldings to mares by about 4:1. So many people would rather have a gelding and don't even look at our mares, some of which are pretty spectacular. And we don't breed for color, so none of our foals come out "the wrong color".


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

malinda said:


> Funny - we would prefer colts and we always seem to get more fillies! We outsell our geldings to mares by about 4:1. So many people would rather have a gelding and don't even look at our mares, some of which are pretty spectacular. And we don't breed for color, so none of our foals come out "the wrong color".


I like geldings and stuck with them for years, fearing the temperamental mare thing. But I've had 4 or 5 mares now and not one of them was ever mareish. Windsong is like a gelding in a mare's body. Which I mean as a compliment.


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