# are goats ruminants?



## harplade (Jul 14, 2005)

now, I've had goats for 7 years and always assumed that they were ruminants. Now a guy at a feed store tells me that goats aren't technically ruminants. He said they have a complex stomach but are not ruminants like a cow.

As my husband says, what's that stuff that keeps coming up and they chew? Looks like cud-from a ruminant?

Just confused and need some help.

Thanks


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Fire yor feed store guy.

Goats have a 4-chambered stomach system with all the same parts as a bovine: the rumen, Omasum, Abomasum, and Reticulum.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

So many times I have new goat owners tell me about the advice feed store clerks gave them.....about goats or cattle. Its usually really bad advice. This type of ignorance is why. I think that if they are going to sell animal feed products, etc, they should at least have basic animal knowledge.:shrug:


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## harplade (Jul 14, 2005)

you know, most of these guys I wouldn't pay much attention to but this guy runs a co op that has been around for many years, he's worked for them for 30 years so altho' I didn't think it was right, he gave me pause b/c of his supposed experience level. 

Unfortunately, we can't seem to find any feed store owners who really know what they're talking about. They are kind of like doctors-they believe whatever the feed companies tell them (as opposed to what the drug companies tell them)

Thanks


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## bstuart29 (Jul 11, 2006)

ozark_jewels said:


> So many times I have new goat owners tell me about the advice feed store clerks gave them.....about goats or cattle. Its usually really bad advice. This type of ignorance is why. I think that if they are going to sell animal feed products, etc, they should at least have basic animal knowledge.:shrug:


 I agree with Emily if you are going to be giving out advice you should be knowledgeable in that area. It like people who work at the hardware store, you should know the working of things if ya are going to try to offer advice to people. I usually won't get out advice about something that I don't have some knowledgeable about, I'd rather point them to a source more experienced in that subject wether it be about livestock or some other topic.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

On the defense of feed store owners...

They are in a business that services everything from angora cats to zebras. Expecting them to know everything about every critter they sell feed for is a bit unreasonable.

Just my dos pesos.


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

Most folk know cows and horses and pigs and sheep.

Goats tend to be a mystery to everyone for some reason.

I don't know why exactly - just try to find a goat-smart vet! Tough to find...

Your feed guy is RONG (mispelling intended).

Tell him you appreciate his insight, but goats are just freshwater deer with a different genus. Caprids. Similar to cervids - deer. Ruminants. Similar to cows. Cud chewers. REALLY different than big dogs. Canid.


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## bstuart29 (Jul 11, 2006)

Rose said:


> On the defense of feed store owners...
> 
> They are in a business that services everything from angora cats to zebras. Expecting them to know everything about every critter they sell feed for is a bit unreasonable.
> 
> Just my dos pesos.


 I can respect that they won't know everything but I think to be on the safe side I wouldn't dispense that kind of information unless I was more sure of it. One's reputation especially when working at a business is very important so I'd rather be on the safe side and point them in a more knowledgeable direction.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Rose said:


> On the defense of feed store owners...
> 
> They are in a business that services everything from angora cats to zebras. Expecting them to know everything about every critter they sell feed for is a bit unreasonable.
> 
> Just my dos pesos.


Absolutely, but the fact that goats are ruminants is so BASIC. That, they *should* know.
Also, most feed stores around here sell pretty much the basics. Very little exotics if any.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

I would listen to my feed dealer if I was going to get cows or horses, he has both and they are beautiful, well fed, productive animals. But other than that and his ability to find the best hay around, he knows squat about goats. The difference unlike your feed dealers, is that he admits it and has them call me.

Nothing irks me more than feed dealers who don't have the stock giving advice about what to feed or what to use, or the people who would listen to that advice.

Baby goats are born mono-gastric with only one functioning stomach. The rumen and the other chambers of the stomach don't start functioning until they are comsuming things they chew.

But yes they are ruminants in fact most teaching univeristies, have their vet to be's necropsy goats which are cheaper to obtain to study the ruminant stomach rather than cattle.

Make sure the information you glean for your herd and the management you choose comes from someone doing what you want to be doing with your goats. Be it dairy or meat or simply house milk. Vicki


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

I have asked questions at the 'blue Seal' feedstore before, for whatever they will launch into this product or that product. Usually when the salesman is done other customers will walk up to me, and whisper that the salesman was totally wrong, and they will try to give 'good' advise. From doing our own research on topics what we have seen is that regardless of topic, salesmen are telling you whatever the feed company labels say. [which is usually bad data].

I was in a local hardware store chain, when they were doing a reset and introducing 'Purina' feeds. They had a weekend sale 50% on all 'Purina' feeds. There were 2 Purina company reps in the store to answer all customer questions. A Purina saleslady went into a long speech about why Purina layer feed is 'better' than all other feeds for chickens. Now my chickens are free-range, I only use chicken feed to lure them back into their coop at night. But I got into an argument with that saleslady. Without knowing what my chickens already eat, nobody can say that their feed is a better feed.

The result? Well I think that salespeople are salespeople. No part of being a salesperson gives you insight into animals or what is better for animals.

A salesperson might tell you what he told someone else to do for a given issue. But that does not mean the other customer did it, nor does that mean that it helped.

A salesman is not a vet.

A salesman is not a breeder.

There job is to get you to buy their product.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I actually threw in the zebra because one of my good friends in Austin is a care giver for a zebra.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

I'm glad my feedmill people are on the ball.
I've never had them push a product on me. Always tell me the choices and describe a bit on each depending on what animal I'm looking to feed.
The co-op is another story, I don't go in there unless I know exactly what I want because they strike me as having less than a clue.

Goats aren't a popular creature in a lot of areas and even folks that have an Ag degree might not know much about them. As goat cheese production grows around here I'm expecting firms to learn a bit more about them.


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## QoTL (Jun 5, 2008)

To be honest, I can't imagine asking real questions at my feedstore. They are, after all, a STORE. They provide products to sell to their customers, and stock things the customers request. That's it.

That would be like asking the clerk at the grocery store to tell me about the cows the milk they sell comes from. They have no idea, they just provide that for their customers because the customers ask for it.

Now a feed DEALER on the other hand.. should have some basic knowledge of the feed they are trying to sell. But at the end of the day, they really are out to sell more feed. And I never follow feed directions on the bag (whether for dog, cat, or goat) because truthfully, the faster they can get you to use up their product, the more product they'll sell.

I do appreciate at my feed store, when they have the same animals, they will share with me how they dealt with a certain situation. Maybe I'm just lucky.. if they don't know they'll say, "I don't know", and not try to make something up!

Meghan


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

That's why I prefer the mill.
Our counter girl has a degree in some sort of animal science. The older guys have been figuring rations for years. It's more than "here's a bag of some stuff we get a good commision on".
I can take my forage samples in or the test results if I have the tests done myself and we work together to build the best ration with the stuff I want to put in it.


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## Caprice Acres (Mar 6, 2005)

A feed store guy once tried to tell me that it's bad to worm and overloaded animal because of the poisons in the wormer - I didn't bother to ask him what I was supposed to do, just bought the ivermectin and left.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Mygoat, maybe he had it mixed up with horses, I know with horses a horse with severe overload has to be wormed carefully. All the worms coming off and once can cause colic and I think, blood loss.


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## xoxoGOATSxoxo (Jul 29, 2006)

I dunno, I never ask my feed store guy for advice. The amount of knowledge he has for the years of is experience he has is ridiculous. Im not sure how you can have animals for that long and still not know much of anything about them. Hes a nice fella, though. I like him. I just dont ask him anything.  

Youd think experience WOULD be the best teacher, eh? Not with my guy. Hmmmm.....


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