# nude in PA



## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

Three houses away a grandson is visiting one of my elderly neighbors, he is very old and I think his mind is gone, so the grandson is not "visiting" anymore, is a care taker, this man is a young fellow and he lift weights in the backyard, which I don't care but my neighbors were complaining to me he is almost naked in some cases, and in other he walks around the property completely naked, I haven't see this, because I don't really care to look that way after all there is a lot of bushes and trees, but my neighbors has young girls like in there 20s and I believe this guy is just showing his muscles to the girls after all he is in his 20s too. Now my question is if something like that is happening why my neighbors are not calling the cops and if this is something to complaint about to the police, I don't want to get involve, sincerely I don't care if he is walking around naked. I just don't look that way. But I don't know if I am doing the right thing. Suggestions please


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Does he house his equipment outside under a canopy or some other structure that provides weather protection? If so periodically place some honey somewhere close where it won't be noticed. And have the neighbors borrow a hive of bees from someone.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

If the girls are in their 20's, they probably already know what a guy looks like - they are adults so let it be. 

Is there a law against walking naked in your yard in Pa?

If the neighbors have an issue, _they_ need to address it with the young man. Then maybe plant some quick growing bushes. Not your issue.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

1. That's weird. Not normal. 

2. I would do a 'health' check on the old man. 

3. Almost naked is ok (assuming he has on short shorts covering his stuff) NAKED is a different animal. It's weird; especially if there are young children that could possibly see......


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I can understand the young man feeling comfortable without clothes. Walking around nude in an area where young people (girls or boys) can see is disrespectful. If he wants to flex his muscles, he can do so properly attired.

Yes, I'ld check on the old man as another suggested. Also, since the young man is your kin, it wouldn't hurt for you to talk with him about the situation, maybe even going with him to visit the old man....


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

The op is kind of rambling and disjointed. Here is the way I understand it. A young man is on a different man's property, scantily clothed. A neighbor is complaining that his adult children can view this scantily clothed young man. On a different property. 

So maybe I am dumb, but I fail to see any problem in this scenario. If neighbor has an issue with his adult kids being able to see into property that he does not own, it is up to him to put up and obscurement (I think I just coined new word) of some sort. (on his own property, of course). 

While I am on MY property, I have the right to walk around butt nekkid if I so choose. If the old man doesn't have a problem with this 'problem', why should any one else?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

greenboy said:


> Three houses away a grandson is visiting one of my elderly neighbors, he is very old and I think his mind is gone, so the grandson is not "visiting" anymore, is a care taker,


3 doors down from the OP is an elderly man whose grandson is the caretaker (I am assuming the grandson now LIVES there full time). 
The old man (homeowner) is very old and not in a right mind.



> this man is a young fellow and he lift weights in the backyard, which I don't care but my neighbors were complaining to me he is almost naked in some cases, and in other he walks around the property completely naked,


The grandson, who now lives permenately in the old man's house, 3 doors down from the OP is outside in the yard barley dressed to naked, lifting weights in the back yard, or just walking around nude in the back yard.
I am 'assuming' there is no privacy fence, as the neighbors can clearly see him.



> I haven't see this, because I don't really care to look that way after all there is a lot of bushes and trees, but my neighbors has young girls like in there 20s and I believe this guy is just showing his muscles to the girls after all he is in his 20s too.


The OP does not care to look, and there are some bushes and trees between the OP and the yard 3 doors away, so he has not seen the naked man himself, but the neighbors have. 
The 1/2 naked to fully naked man is in his 20's.



> Now my question is if something like that is happening why my neighbors are not calling the cops and if this is something to complaint about to the police,


The OP wants to know why the neighbors have only complained to him and not called the police. 
This is a question the OP should ask the neighbors. 
BUT IMHO they don't want the naked man to know they called the cops because they have to live next to him......and they don't want any trouble.




> I don't want to get involve, sincerely I don't care if he is walking around naked. I just don't look that way. But I don't know if I am doing the right thing. Suggestions please


OP does not want to get involved. The OP wants ideas on how to handle this situation.

1. Tell neighbors to call the police and see if any laws are being broken.

2. If there are young children, a school, a pre school, a day care, a church that has day care or youth program CLOSE? 
Strongly encourage the neighbors who have actually SEEN the naked man to call authorities and see if any laws are being broken.

3. Google the naked mans name and see if he is on a registered sex offenders list. 
Being naked in the back yard ESPECIALLY if he is close to young children, a school, a pre school, a day care, a church that has day care or youth program is a DIRECT violation of his sentence.

4. IF the OP knows the old man, go make a wellness check OR ask the police to do a wellness check OR TELL THE NEIGHBORS to call the police for a wellness check.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lots of body building competitions are done nearly naked, better to view what's built that way. 
From much if a distance a speedo pretty much looks naked. 
If the man IS naked it IS HIS responceability to limit the view. 
I think the neighbors have told the OP so that things can be handled in a low key way and avoid involving the police. 

Greenboy if you love this child at all please explain to him the neighbors unease and point out that if the cops are called he will be a known pervert forever even if he convinces the cops of his innocence. The allegation will be on his record and color interactions with the police forever. 
And lord help him if the charges of nakedness stick. He will be a registering sex pervert FOREVER. 
Explain that that conviction can be based on the uncollaborated word of one child or adult. 
This is big life changing stuff don't play around nip it in the bud. 
Don't play on the edge no tiny flesh colored speedos. Remember a child has 18 years from their. 18th birthday to make this charge. So what a kid thinks they might have seen is important!
Of course this is the law in my state , your mileage may vary.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> 3 doors down from the OP is an elderly man whose grandson is the caretaker (I am assuming the grandson now LIVES there full time).
> The old man (homeowner) is very old and not in a right mind.
> 
> The grandson, who now lives permenately in the old man's house, 3 doors down from the OP is outside in the yard barley dressed to naked, lifting weights in the back yard, or just walking around nude in the back yard.
> ...


 Derailment alert!!!

"The old man is not in a right mind"

We do not know this. Having a caretaker does not mean that some one is insane.

Assuming that the young man lives or does not live at the old mans residence, the conclusion is still the same. Some one is scantily clothed ON ANOTHER PROPERTY. SO? Can your neighbors tell you how to dress? Can your neighbors tell your guests how to dress?

"he has not seen the naked man himself, but the neighbors have. " Herseay at best.


No more quotes, just my humble opinion. The young man was not lasciviously exposing himself, there ain't a DA that should give this a second look. As the young man was on private property, it could be considered a 'Peeping Tom' issue if someone sees him. So lets call popo on the ladies. It ain't illegal to be naked on private property. Nor scantily clothed. What does being a RSO have to do with this? Are RSO's not allowed to be unclothed? On private property? In their own domicile?

If ya don't like the color of my house or the knee hi grass in my yard, first of all, talk to me about it. Second of all, mind your own dang business. 

I would NEVER presume to interfere with what my neighbor is doing on his own property. Until I was appointed his legal guardian.

And I do agree that a competency check MIGHT be a good idea.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> If the man IS naked it IS HIS responceability to limit the view.


 I disagree 100%. If my nudity in MY OWN PROPERTY offends you, simply don't look. Why should I have to build a fence 'cause you don't want to see me? I own my property. It is my castle.


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## tamarackreg (Mar 13, 2006)

You said you can't see it from your place - legal or not, it's none of your business.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

CurtisWilliams said:


> I disagree 100%. If my nudity in MY OWN PROPERTY offends you, simply don't look. Why should I have to build a fence 'cause you don't want to see me? I own my property. It is my castle.



No. 
Well at least not in my state. 
While it may be your property if it's in public view ya better cover up.

Besides how am I supposed to know not to look till I've already seen. ?
Worse yet as I drive I may be to busy to look and see but my children may have plenty of time to see.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

tamarackreg said:


> You said you can't see it from your place - legal or not, it's none of your business.



It's his grandson it's his concern that brings him to ask.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

From the OP, his grandson is legally an adult that is doing nothing immoral, illegal or wrong. So I'm still trying to understand why any one has a problem with what is happening.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> No.
> Well at least not in my state.
> While it may be your property if it's in public view ya better cover up.
> 
> ...


OK, this is gonna get interesting! VERY!!!

You are suggesting that EVERY property owner is responsible for blocking light transmission that originated from the sun from reflecting from any thing that He/She legally owns?

And just how do you propose that this happen?


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> > Originally Posted by *tamarackreg*
> > _You said you can't see it from your place - legal or not, it's none of your business._
> 
> 
> It's his grandson it's his concern that brings him to ask.


The young body-building man is not the OP's grandson. The young man is the grandson of the old man who is the OP's neighbour. The OP doesn't know the young man.

You haven't been on this forum long enough to be familiar with all of the long term forum members but the OP is a youngish man himself, too young to have a grandson of his own yet, let alone a grandson in his 20's.

Typically the OP rarely returns to threads that he starts and often his posts are disjointed or not explanatory enough, so there is a possibility that the OP may not return to this thread to clarify any questions that come up.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

as AS stated. it depends on where you are. around here you can't be nude on private property if it's in view of the public. ~Georgia


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

greenboy said:


> ....... I don't want to get involve, sincerely I don't care if he is walking around naked. I just don't look that way. But I don't know if I am doing the right thing. Suggestions please


Ignore it and don't get involved. It's not your problem, it's the complaining neighbour's problem (if a problem really exists) and if the complaining neighbours don't like it then it's their own responsibility to lodge a complaint with the police. 

For all you know, since you have not seen evidence of the young man's nudity yourself, your complaining neighbours might be prudes who are imagining things or exaggerating the truth and may just like to have something or somebody to complain about. So just leave it be and don't get caught up in their drama nor get involved in some kind of "witch hunt".


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

............Maybe the "girls" have scoped out his 'Muscle' and decided it didn't warrant any further attention ! , fordy


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Pennsylvania laws regarding indecent exposure or open lewdness:

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/pennsylvania-law/pennsylvania-indecent-exposure-laws.html


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> No.
> Well at least not in my state.
> While it may be your property if it's in public view ya better cover up.
> 
> ...


 In my viewpoint, if ya wanna live in a gated community, more power to ya. I prefer to have a certain level of personal responsibility. 

Here, if I wanna sit in my boxers while reading the Sunday paper out on the deck, the local deputy would simply honk and wave as he drove by.

Big Brother SUKKS!


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

CurtisWilliams said:


> In my viewpoint, if ya wanna live in a gated community, more power to ya. I prefer to have a certain level of personal responsibility.
> 
> *Here, if I wanna sit in my boxers while reading the Sunday paper out on the deck, the local deputy would simply honk and wave as he drove by.*
> 
> Big Brother SUKKS!


It's okay to sit around in your boxers. That isn't the issue.

The issue is that even if you are on your own private property it's not okay if your genitals are exposed to public view. Doesn't matter where "here" is, if "here" is in the USA it's against the law to expose the genitals to the public.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> No.
> 
> Besides how am I supposed to know not to look till I've already seen. ?
> Worse yet as I drive I may be to busy to look and see but my children may have plenty of time to see.


OK, I'm gonna answer in two parts. First, don't look in the first place. How simple can it be???

Second, Is your kids seeing a grown man naked a tragedy? 

Have you or your significant other ever been nude in front of your kids? Is it such a big deal?


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

Fennick said:


> It's okay to sit around in your boxers. That isn't the issue.
> 
> The issue is that even if you are on your own private property it's not okay if your genitals are exposed to public view. Doesn't matter where "here" is, if "here" is in the USA it's against the law to expose the genitals to the public.


 OK this is getting to the core issue. About time.

This person was on private property. And was wearing skimpy attire. So WHERE IS THE ISSUE?

And please correct me if I am wrong. In the USA, there are NO indecent exposure laws at the federal level. These reg's are imposed at the state or lower level. 

And Yes, I can sit outside in my boxers or birthday suit ON MY OWN PROPERTY with no repercussuions.

In public, it is a different story. But my property is NOT open to the public. 

Until a law is passed giving covenents to the incorporated town that I 
am next too, or until I am annexed, or ultimitely annexed AND such covenants are adopted, I am free to be nude on my own property.

Are you nude when you bathe? Or are intimate?

Should the popo be called?


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## mrsgcpete (Sep 16, 2012)

Fennick said:


> It's okay to sit around in your boxers. That isn't the issue.
> 
> The issue is that even if you are on your own private property it's not okay if your genitals are exposed to public view. Doesn't matter where "here" is, if "here" is in the USA it's against the law to expose the genitals to the public.


not completely true. there is a naked bike ride that goes through our state capitol every year and the only person that got in trouble was the person who decided to get sassy with the cops. my daughter covered her eyes of her own accord. i was just upset that there had been 4 very nice looking bike riders that were fully clothed about two minutes before the motely crew of fat and hairy, lumpy nekkid folks. :sob: btw we ran in to this by accident. we also have a mostly nekkid vespa rider in a cape.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

CurtisWilliams said:


> OK this is getting to the core issue. About time.
> 
> This person was on private property. And was wearing skimpy attire. So WHERE IS THE ISSUE?
> 
> ...


There is no issue with the young man being scantily clad on his own property.



> And please correct me if I am wrong. In the USA, there are NO indecent exposure laws at the federal level. These reg's are imposed at the state or lower level.


I don't care about that. The discussion is about nudity in Pennsylvania and that is a state reg. However, you should understand that all states in USA do have laws about indecent exposure.



> And Yes, I can sit outside in my boxers or birthday suit ON MY OWN PROPERTY with no repercussuions.


That is true only so long as your exposed genitals are not viewable to the public who are not on your property. 

If they are your neighbours across the street or behind your back yard, or if they are people driving by on the street, or people walking their dogs in the park across from your place, or children playing in the playground half a block away - they are the public, even those who are on their own property. If the public can see you displaying your exposed genitals while you are anywhere on your own property that is considered indecent exposure in all states. 

There ARE repercussions in all states for indecent exposure to the public - makes no difference whose property you are on.

If the public cannot see onto your property then do what you want. Nobody will care about what they cannot see and don't know about.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

This is all a mute point since the OP has not returned. I'm suspecting the OP is simply throwing out things for others to debate about....


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

I don't know what the laws in PA are. But it sounds like they are unreasonable to me. If a person that owns a property can not be anywhere on said property as he/she is clothed as deemed fit, why would someone own property I such ajurisdictuin in the first place?.

By this same logic, nudity within the home should be illegal 'cause someone might look in a window. 

Don't like what you see? Don't look!!!

I tinkle in my yard frequently. Should ANYONE have an issue with that?


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

Fennick said:


> There is no issue with the young man being scantily clad on his own property.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fennick, this is gonna get good.

"There is no issue with the young man being scantily clad on his own property."

This is what started the whole debate. So the OP has an issue with this 'issue'.

"you should understand that all states in USA do have laws about indecent exposure."

Please explain which statute that being nude or partially clothed on private property is being violated. Am I not allowed to disrobe in MY home? Or in MY yard? When you PEEP into my domicile, are you are allowed to dictate my wardrobe?

This is gonna irritate the mods. So be it. If you don't wanna see my testicles, look away.

Peace,
Curtis


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

CurtisWilliams said:


> OK, I'm gonna answer in two parts. First, don't look in the first place. How simple can it be???



It's simply not possible. 

So it's not simple it's very complicated. What you propose is some sort of a system where somebody is sent out ahead of everybody to see what they might see report back on what they might see and tell him not to look at the appropriate times. 
Or perhaps I misunderstood please explain to me how I am to go through life without seeing anything ?


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## Canyonero (Jan 20, 2016)

OMG! There oughta be a law!

My neighbors do some things that are absolutely disgusting! I've already gone through several sets of batteries in my image-stabilizer binoculars!


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

CurtisWilliams said:


> Am I not allowed to disrobe in MY home? Or in MY yard? When you PEEP into my domicile, are you are allowed to dictate my wardrobe?
> 
> Peace,
> Curtis



You may disrobe in private in your home. Start dancing naked in front of a window or in your yard were you can be reasonably be expected to be seen and you are breaking the law and Morality.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> It's simply not possible.
> 
> So it's not simple it's very complicated. What you propose is some sort of a system where somebody is sent out ahead of everybody to see what they might see report back on what they might see and tell him not to look at the appropriate times.
> Or perhaps I misunderstood please explain to me how I am to go through life without seeing anything ?


 Not at all. What I propose is that everyone grow up and decide for themselves whether something is worth viewing, 
discussing and thinking about. Ya can't help what ya see. But when ya can't look away... think about it.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> You may disrobe in private in your home. Start dancing naked in front of a window or in your yard were you can be reasonably be expected to be seen and you are breaking the law and Morality.


 OK, this is getting better. Now you are stating that dancing nude or naked in my own home is immoral or illegal. WOW!

Within the law, society ends at my property boundary . By your logic, If I peel down in my front yard and someone witnesses this on public property looks in my direction, I am a criminal. 

Have you ever been nude in the sanctity of your own home? And if someone peers thru your window, how does this make you suspect?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

CurtisWilliams said:


> I disagree 100%. If my nudity in MY OWN PROPERTY offends you, simply don't look. Why should I have to build a fence 'cause you don't want to see me? I own my property. It is my castle.


I have to wonder how the judge will interpret this comment if you are ever charged with indecent exposure. I've read about folks being found guilty because they could be seen from the street while walking around naked in their homes.... Something about being behind closed doors only counts if windows are also covered!


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Go ahead, walk up to the 4 feet thick bushes, in the dark, drop trow and pee in public on Georgetown road the weekend before the Indianapolis 500.

You will be arrested for indecent exposure, which will get you put on the sex offenders list because you peed outside.

THE OP SAID the old man was not right in the head (assuming demitia / alzheimers because of he age)

This thread got pretty nasty pretty quick.....I didn't realize that we were in GC??? I thought Countryside Families was a kinder gentler place?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> *It's his grandson* it's his concern that brings him to ask.


The OP isn't related to anyone in the tale at all


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> Go ahead, walk up to the 4 feet thick bushes, in the dark, drop trow and pee in public on Georgetown road the weekend before the Indianapolis 500.
> 
> You will be arrested for indecent exposure, which will get you put on the sex offenders list because you peed outside.
> 
> ...


It's whatever you make it


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

CurtisWilliams said:


> OK, this is getting better. Now you are stating that dancing nude or naked in my own home is immoral or illegal. WOW!
> 
> Within the law, society ends at my property boundary . By your logic, If I peel down in my front yard and someone witnesses this on public property looks in my direction, I am a criminal.
> 
> Have you ever been nude in the sanctity of your own home? And if someone peers thru your window, how does this make you suspect?



Lol I take it you belive in a flat earth ?
You have some special rights on your property, being naked n view isn't one of them.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol I take it you belive in a flat earth ?
> You have some special rights on your property, being naked n view isn't one of them.


 Nope, I believe that the earth is round. And yup I do have some special rights on my property. And being unclothed IS one of them.

AmericanStand, Please show me a single statute that makes it illegal for someone to be disrobed on their own property.


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## Ozarka (Apr 15, 2007)

My 88-year old neighbor told me once that a good neighbor was one who spent 95% of his time minding his own bidness and the other 5% staying out of their neighbor's bidness...

Some of y'all need to be focusing on yer radishes or using a toothbrush to scrub your own baseboards.....

some really conditioned sheeple on here, OMG, a naked man!!!!! as has been said, look away....or don't look at all. Let me see here...the weightlifter is a 20 something male and the daughters of someone not connected to the old man, weight lifter or complainant are 20 something....hey! radishes, toothbrush, lets not call the cops, fer chrissake! get a life....


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

CurtisWilliams said:


> Nope, I believe that the earth is round. And yup I do have some special rights on my property. And being unclothed IS one of them.
> 
> AmericanStand, Please show me a single statute that makes it illegal for someone to be disrobed on their own property.



I can do better than that just takes your naked self down to the roadside and pretty soon a nice man in blue will show up to explain it all to ya. 

Your welcome.


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## mrsgcpete (Sep 16, 2012)

some folks here are pretty worried about other folks being nekkid or mostly nekkid, Jesus wasnt exactly in a three piece suit on the cross at the church we went to as a kid. its not immoral to be nude and shouldnt be illegal. they are just bodies some better looking than others., peeing on other people's property is a whole different ball of wax.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> I can do better than that just takes your naked self down to the roadside and pretty soon a nice man in blue will show up to explain it all to ya.
> 
> Your welcome.


OK. Where did I proscribe being nude on a public street? There is a freakin' HUGE difference between being nude in ones own yard and streaking.

YOUR WELCOME!!!


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> It's simply not possible.
> 
> So it's not simple it's very complicated. What you propose is some sort of a system where somebody is sent out ahead of everybody to see what they might see report back on what they might see and tell him not to look at the appropriate times.
> Or perhaps I misunderstood please explain to me how I am to go through life without seeing anything ?


 This gets better every time that I read this thread.

CLOSE YOUR EYES! How simple can it get?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's whatever you make it


You guys have GC to muck up. This is a nice place where people ask questions seeking advice; not the GC way.

To the OP:
Greenboy, I hope that you received some decent advice before this thread went down the toilet!!


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

My guess is the nakedness will stop once skeeter and chigger season rolls around......


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

When I was at my very private cabin in NY, I showered outside, and swam in the river naked and was quite at ease. I did have my very protective dog and a firearm close by.

The operative words are very private.
I wouldn't consider it where I live now.
It just would be weird .


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

I knew a guy named Darrell who got naked and ran through a briar patch for a $5 bet. Somebody up on the road saw a bunch of guys drinking beer and laughing, and called the cops. Well, the bunch of guys disappeared when the police started down the road that led to the riverside, so there was only naked Darrell, and a couple of cops. He had ran through the briar-patch, but then turned around and was going to walk back to get his clothes. Since he was walking instead of running, he got stuck. So, 2 cops, naked Darrell stuck in a briarpatch, and a bunch of beer drinking guys hiding behind trees and watching. After a whole lot of discussion, the cops decided they weren't going into the briar patch, and although Darrell might or might not be naked, they saw nothing they considered offensive. So, they left him there. 

Moral of this story? It's going to be different for different folks. My interpretation is that if you're naked and/or drunk and it's more trouble for cops to get you, it don't matter. On the other hand, if you're naked in the back yard, 3 houses away, somebody will worry about you on the internet, and the self-righteous morality police will wring their hands about the downfall of the republic.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

CurtisWilliams said:


> This gets better every time that I read this thread.
> 
> *CLOSE YOUR EYES!* How simple can it get?


By the time you know to close your eyes - you've seen all there is to see....

Yup. Curtis - better & better.


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

For what it's worth my $0.02 is that by their 20s very few young women haven't seen all there is to see. I doubt it bothers them anywhere near as much as it bothers their older neighbors. 

Americans tend to be such prudes. I regularly vacationed at nude beaches when I was young. It was considered perfectly normal and natural for people of all ages from babies to the elderly.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

CurtisWilliams said:


> This gets better every time that I read this thread.
> 
> CLOSE YOUR EYES! How simple can it get?



People complain when I drive with my eyes closed :shrug:


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

CurtisWilliams said:


> OK. Where did I proscribe being nude on a public street? There is a freakin' HUGE difference between being nude in ones own yard and streaking.
> 
> YOUR WELCOME!!!



No not so huge just a few inches from one side of the property line to another.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

CurtisWilliams said:


> Nope, I believe that the earth is round. And yup I do have some special rights on my property. And being unclothed IS one of them.
> 
> AmericanStand, Please show me a single statute that makes it illegal for someone to be disrobed on their own property.


It's illegal if you *can be seen* by someone else who is *not* on your property.
It's been explained several times already
You have no "special rights" to display your nudity


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> *You guys* have GC to muck up. This is a nice place where people ask questions seeking advice; not the GC way.
> 
> To the OP:
> Greenboy, I hope that you received some decent advice before this thread went down the toilet!!


It's still what you make it.
You aren't forced to participate in anything you don't like, and have no authority to tell anyone else what to do.
You're the only one complaining


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## Shoden (Dec 19, 2012)

CurtisWilliams said:


> AmericanStand, Please show me a single statute that makes it illegal for someone to be disrobed on their own property.


Since the OP was in Pennsylvania, I started with this:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/18/00.031.027.000..HTM



> Â§ 3127. Indecent exposure.
> (a) Offense defined.--A person commits indecent exposure if that person exposes his or her genitals in any public place *or in any place where there are present other persons under circumstances in which he or she knows or should know that this conduct is likely to offend, affront or alarm.*
> (b) Grading.--If the person knows or should have known that any of the persons present are less than 16 years of age, indecent exposure under subsection (a) is a misdemeanor of the first degree. Otherwise, indecent exposure under subsection (a) is a misdemeanor of the second degree.
> (Mar. 31, 1995, 1st Sp.Sess., P.L.985, No.10, eff. 60 days)


I bolded the part that applies to private property.

Since I don't know which side of the river you're on, here are the laws for both Nebraska and Iowa.

Nebraska seems to be a bit different in it's wording, using an 'and' instead of an 'or', so may not actually apply on private property: http://nebraskalegislature.gov/laws/statutes.php?statute=28-806



> 28-806.
> 
> Public indecency; penalty.
> 
> ...


Iowa, on the other hand, could be worse than Pennsylvania for being prudish, if it weren't for item 1 in the law below: https://coolice.legis.iowa.gov/Cool-ICE/default.asp?category=billinfo&service=IowaCode&input=709



> 709.9 INDECENT EXPOSURE.
> A person who exposes the person's genitals or pubes to another not
> the person's spouse, or who commits a sex act in the presence of or
> view of a third person, commits a serious misdemeanor, if:
> ...


Public or private doesn't matter, and even showing some pubes is enough to break the law. However, it has to be done for "sexual desire" to be illegal, so casual nudity could be possible.

Pennsylvania doesn't care about the reason, so sexual or not, it doesn't matter. If you're nude, and someone else sees you and decides they're offended, you've broken the law.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

They use vague terms such as likely to offend, may cause offense and so on. 

When cases are prosecuted they use willful intent as a determining factor. If I am not trying to break the law, that is a factor. If I am not using my nudity in a lascivious or prurient way that is a factor. If I am not acting in a sexual way that is a factor. So if I sunbathe nude on property that I paid for and the UPS man pulls into the driveway, how am I breaking the law?

And when on my property I am not in a public place. My tiny acre is private property, not open to the public domain.

I know, lets call the police when someone gets undressed in a locker room. Or a child sees Mom or Pop in the bathroom.

There is a thing called common sense, which apparently isn't common.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

Wolf mom said:


> By the time you know to close your eyes - you've seen all there is to see....


And the problem lies ... Wait, what was the problem?

IDK about you but I've seen nude men, women, boys, girls and hairless chuiwawas. Sorry about my spelling. 

I wasn't offended by any of this.


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## roadless (Sep 9, 2006)

Private property can certainly be within the line of sight. 
There are cases where owners have been cited because of too much trash on their property 
Not everyone wants to see their neighbors junk!ound:

That being said, if it is truly private, enjoy.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

Yes, they can be but those are usually due to specific to specific city/town/village ordinances. Or community covenants. Which I despise!


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

I'm a hot blooded middle aged guy who seems to be hot all the time.

I've been known to go outside to do chores with my tshirt, underwear, and muck boots. "Chores" consist of feeding the dog or the chickens, or getting the mail.

There is a state road directly in front of my house - and several times I haven't been fast enough to get behind something when a car goes by - or haven't heard the car until it was too late. Several people have spotted me - including several people from our church!

However, I do NOT go outside naked. As has been pointed out, in Pennsylvania, being naked outside (even on your own property) is against the law.

However, I'm not quite sure why the OP even posted this thread. None of this is his concern as he has not seen the young guy nude - and it sounds like from his place, it's impossible for Greenboy to see this young gentlemen naked - IF he even is. Greenboy has nothing in this - if the neighbors don't like it, it's up to them to call the police - not complain to their neighbors.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

"(a) Offense defined.--A person commits indecent exposure if that person exposes his or her genitals in any public place *or in any place where there are present other persons under circumstances in which he or she knows or should know that this conduct is likely to offend, affront or alarm."*

No one should be offended by me being nude on my property. 

And as far as the other state statutes quoted, they are open to the same interpretation as this. What is more reasonable? That I can be arrested if someone looks in my window and sees my bare butt? Or that non sexual nudity on private property is nothing to worry about. 

The next time I run into the Sheriff or the Judge, I'll ask them for their interpretation. 

It's been interesting reading everyone's thoughts, but I still think that nudity on private property does not violate the law.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

I would rather someone was near nude in their backyardthan walking down the street with their jeans down around their knees IMO thats offensive.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

I haven't seen Hiz Honor or Sheriff Bob, but today I did run into a lawyer I know. He is a partner in his law firm and a former DA in my county. According to Dave, the law will base the most emphasis on intent. If you are nude in a way intended to cause shock, distress or gratify in a sexual way, it is a violation. So if someone is on my property and I 'flashed' them, I could be arrested. But if I am pruning the roses in m y birthday suit and some drives by, there is no violation. 

On the flip side, If someone casually looks in my yard and sees my nudity, No violation. If someone actively looks with the intent to spy, and I was acting lasciviously, THEY could be charged under peeping tom laws. Of course I could be charged as well. But if my nudity was casual and not sexual, I would face no charges.

It is ALL about proven intent.

This dead horse has been beaten enough.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> It is ALL about *proven* intent.
> 
> This dead horse has been beaten enough.


Keep in mind that "intent" will have to be "proven" in court *after *you're arrested


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Keep in mind that "intent" will have to be "proven" in court *after *you're arrested


According to the former DA, unless allegations of misconduct are made, it would not be prosecuted. And nudity on private property is not misconduct. At least here. I haven't consulted anyone about this in another state. 

Nudity is NOT illegal. Indecency is.

Keep in mind that I am not advocating nudity in places where other's can see you. But I DO have the right to be nude on my own property.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Keep in mind that "intent" will have to be "proven" in court *after *you're arrested


Yes the prosecution has to prove intent, not the accused.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

CR, you are correct. But I think that BFF's point was that a public arrest, possibly posting bail and having to go to court can be life changing issues, especially in a small community.

But I ain't gonna let my neighbors or complete strangers tell me how to dress when I'm on MY property. 

Unkle is bad enough. We don't need Big Brother.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

CurtisWilliams said:


> I haven't seen Hiz Honor or Sheriff Bob, but today I did run into a lawyer I know. He is a partner in his law firm and a former DA in my county. According to Dave, the law will base the most emphasis on intent. If you are nude in a way intended to cause shock, distress or gratify in a sexual way, it is a violation. So if someone is on my property and I 'flashed' them, I could be arrested. But if I am pruning the roses in m y birthday suit and some drives by, there is no violation.
> 
> On the flip side, If someone casually looks in my yard and sees my nudity, No violation. If someone actively looks with the intent to spy, and I was acting lasciviously, THEY could be charged under peeping tom laws. Of course I could be charged as well. But if my nudity was casual and not sexual, I would face no charges.
> 
> ...


i agree... This has been beaten to death and then some. Being argumentative for the sake of being a pain is not being nice.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

i agree-and dis-agree with most. I know there are laws--but why should i not be able to walk around outside, i own this land! I wouldnt--cause too many trees would be hit by laughing people unable to drive. Yes, i wish I could--think how better we would retain our figure if everyone saw us naked? I wont-but I wish I could. Been a long time since I've seen a naked man--exactly where does he live?


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

My husband knew a couple in Oklahoma that spent 5 years (each) in prison because they had sex in their bedroom, and a neighbor saw them...curtains weren't closed all the way.

That said...OP is repeating gossip, not something HE himself has seen.

Mon


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

My Son recently took a class about like this--I believe it said even in your home--if the windows areopen (no drapes) then you have no expecations of privacy


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

"I OWN THIS LAND " 
Perhaps but do you own the veiw ?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

CurtisWilliams said:


> According to the former DA, unless *allegations of misconduct *are made, it would not be prosecuted. And nudity on private property is not misconduct. At least here. I haven't consulted anyone about this in another state.
> 
> Nudity is NOT illegal. Indecency is.
> 
> Keep in mind that I am not advocating nudity in places where other's can see you. But I DO have the right to be nude on my own property.


If someone complains, those are your "allegations"
No one has said it's illegal to be nude on your property if you cannot be seen, but if you can be seen by someone *not* on your property, it's not a good idea



> coolrunnin
> Yes the prosecution has to prove intent, not the accused.


It doesn't matter who has the burden of proof when the point is you could still be *arrested* and have to defend yourself


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

Fennick said:


> Pennsylvania laws regarding indecent exposure or open lewdness:
> 
> http://statelaws.findlaw.com/pennsylvania-law/pennsylvania-indecent-exposure-laws.html


We have similar laws and over the years I arrested at least half dozen men for standing naked at their front windows while people were passing by. This was always done in response to a complaint from a citizen. In other words we didn't go looking for them (law enforcement slang for these pervs is 'flag waiver'). The point is that even in your own home the legality of nudity visible to others depends on the context of what else is going on and where the home is located.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> If someone complains, those are your "allegations"
> No one has said it's illegal to be nude on your property if you cannot be seen, but if you can be seen by someone *not* on your property, it's not a good idea
> 
> It doesn't matter who has the burden of proof when the point is you could still be *arrested* and have to defend yourself


I agree completely.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> "I OWN THIS LAND "
> Perhaps but do you own the veiw ?


I do not own the airspace rights, nor water rights to my property. But as I am not in an area with covenants regarding views, I would say that no one owns the 'light wave rights'. Therefore until I am doing something intentionally indecent, I am in the right. 

Hypothetical situation. Very hypothetical. I can see the landing beacon from the local crop duster airport. It offends me. All day and all night this shines onto property that I own. Can I demand that a curtain be placed over it? I don't want to see it.

But ya know what? I can put up curtains or simply choose not to look at it. Instead of insisting that someone else alter their behavior on their property.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

ceresone said:


> My Son recently took a class about like this--I believe it said even in your home--if the windows areopen (no drapes) then you have no expecations of privacy


I do not have expectations of privacy if I am in public view. Even within my own home. By that same logic, if someone looks in my un-curtained window, he/she has no expectations of not being offended by what they see.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

CurtisWilliams said:


> Hypothetical situation. Very hypothetical. I can see the landing beacon from the local crop duster airport. It offends me. All day and all night this shines onto property that I own. Can I demand that a curtain be placed over it? I don't want to see it.
> 
> .



Actually you can demand they keep their light off your property. 
But not the airspace above it.


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

AmericanStand said:


> Actually you can demand they keep their light off your property.
> But not the airspace above it.


Actually, I can demand anything that I want to. But that don't mean it's gonna happen.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

OMGosh........


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

IMHO....MYOB....There's enough crap caused in this world by busy bodies. Respectfuly.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

CurtisWilliams said:


> Actually, I can demand anything that I want to. But that don't mean it's gonna happen.



Ok to be clear in previous cases people have successfully petitioned the courts to prohibit airports Lighting up their property.


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## D-BOONE (Feb 9, 2016)

Which do you find offensive ?


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

My farm is so private that I have showered outdoors at the yard hydrant, you would have to be trespassing to get a look. I only use the indoor toilet if it is raining.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

If you don't want to see a not particularly fit, middle aged naked man in his backyard, either sunning himself while reading or maybe even urinating on fire ant mounds, then don't look over my fence. Unless you trespass, you'll be at least 1000+ ft away, so bring your binocs if you want a really good look. And if you take a picture, please do me a photoshop favor and make something larger, my belly flatter, and add some muscle here and there. 

Otherwise, keep your nose out of my biz. Remember Bewitched? I think some of you are Ms. Kravitz, the nosy neighbor.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

This whole thread has turned into a GC conversation and NOT a Country Side FAMILY conversation.....sheesh.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> This whole thread has turned into a GC conversation and NOT a Country Side FAMILY conversation.....sheesh.


No...I do wear boxers when I shower outdoors.


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## moonrabbit (Apr 1, 2016)

I am of the mind that if you want to be naked then you can construct a privacy fence or grow some nice tall bushes. It's just the neighborly thing to do. I'm a good neighbor, respectful of the rights of my neighbors. I don't play loud music at 3am or park extra cars in front of your driveway; I don't let my house get run down or turn my front yard into a junkyard and drag down your property value; I don't keep 5 yappy chihuahua dogs, I don't buy floodlights and aim them at your bedroom window or moon your relatives from my porch when they come to visit you.

But... if my daughters (I have 4) are playing in the front yard and they can easily see your (redacted) then everything in that first paragraph is going to be on the table because you are not being a good neighbor. If someone that really doesn't want to see you naked can see you naked in the course of their normal day to day activity then you are not exercising your rights.. you are infringing on the rights of others.


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## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

They brought the subject to the Town Meeting, the Administrator told the lady who brought the subject, the laws of the city do not apply to my area because is pretty far from the city, in the country you can do whatever, and he doesnt want to hear about it anymore, and not to bother the police department with such petty things,If "you dont like to see the man in the nude to read a book when you go outside, and to stop looking his way", everything ended like a yoke, an older lady asked, " who is selling the ticket for the peep show, I want a dozen" lol. Sincerely I dont care and if this guy is exposing himself because he has a nice body and want for the world to see it, IS NOT MY PROBLEM, Thanks buddies for your comments. 



AmericanStand said:


> Lots of body building competitions are done nearly naked, better to view what's built that way.
> From much if a distance a speedo pretty much looks naked.
> If the man IS naked it IS HIS responceability to limit the view.
> I think the neighbors have told the OP so that things can be handled in a low key way and avoid involving the police.
> ...


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I just got home from spending a week in a campground in the smokies. I came home with a new outlook about showing too much skin in public. It became obvious to me that there comes a time in a mans life that he really needs to wear a shirt! I have to say that time usually comes shortly after his twenty fifth birthday.


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## Murby (May 24, 2016)

I would just be a good neighbor and mind my own business.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Laura Zone 5 said:


> 1. That's weird. Not normal.
> 
> 2. I would do a 'health' check on the old man.
> 
> 3. Almost naked is ok (assuming he has on short shorts covering his stuff) NAKED is a different animal. It's weird; especially if there are young children that could possibly see......


How is it weird? It's only weird because everyone thinks it's weird. Honestly I wouldn't give a hoot.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I just got home from spending a week in a campground in the smokies. I came home with a new outlook about showing too much skin in public. It became obvious to me that there comes a time in a mans life that he really needs to wear a shirt! I have to say that time usually comes shortly after his twenty fifth birthday.


Well see . . . . . . . . you were vacationing in the wrong spot. 

Come to Pennsylvania and park 3 houses away from Greenboy. Everyday you will see a 20 some year old young male lifting weights. And as an added bonus, sometimes he walks around in the back yard totally nude.

Just know you might have to look from behind some bushes . . . . . . . and stay out of the poison ivy!!!!


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Are we still talking about this?

I friend of mine went to Europe and was so excited to go to a nude beach. when he got back, we couldn't wait to hear his reaction. He was so disappointed. Not sure if he was expecting French models or what but what he saw was like a nude nursing home on a beach trip! You just cannot unsee such droop! That's why I don't go outside in my birthday suit.


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## Nsoitgoes (Jan 31, 2016)

Miss Kay said:


> Are we still talking about this?
> 
> I friend of mine went to Europe and was so excited to go to a nude beach. when he got back, we couldn't wait to hear his reaction. He was so disappointed. Not sure if he was expecting French models or what but what he saw was like a nude nursing home on a beach trip! You just cannot unsee such droop! That's why I don't go outside in my birthday suit.


:shrug: What on earth did he think he would see? Nude beaches are commonplace in Europe. Everyone uses them from newborn babies to great-granny. No one cares what you look like - because they aren't looking at you. When you are used to seeing people nude it becomes a non-event.


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## Yowsa (May 24, 2016)

Nsoitgoes said:


> :shrug: What on earth did he think he would see? Nude beaches are commonplace in Europe. Everyone uses them from newborn babies to great-granny. No one cares what you look like - because they aren't looking at you. When you are used to seeing people nude it becomes a non-event.


I love my dog, but I do get tired of looking at his anus all day.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Trust me, you could never get used to seeing my in my birthday suit!


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

Yowsa said:


> I love my dog, but I do get tired of looking at his anus all day.


 Don't forget what swings below...

Aawwe, NUTS!!!


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## CurtisWilliams (Mar 14, 2005)

Miss Kay said:


> Trust me, you could never get used to seeing my in my birthday suit!


 Miss Kay, I know that you are a lovely lady whose beauty shines from within.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

You made my day Curtis, thanks!


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## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

update, the police talked to him, and he seemed he is just not wearing a shirt now but just pants. That's ok. I guess, in my house a shirtless man is not acceptable, but he is not in my house.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Recently discovered my neighbors down the road wander around nearly naked constantly. (Underwear for hygiene) To them, it's perfectly natural and normal, so what the heck!


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Huh ???
A shirtless male isn't acceptable in the house ?
Is it a convent !


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## greenboy (Sep 5, 2005)

is just disgusting


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

greenboy said:


> is just disgusting


Sounds like you need to encourage the men at your house to hit the gym. A shirtless man in the house is a lovely sight and greatly to be appreciated.


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