# How about 325 mpg?



## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

http://www.aptera.com/

Coming soon to Cali for @$30,000


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## Tilly (Oct 16, 2007)

Doesn't look like it could hold half of my family!!!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

How about a Tata Nano? 53 mpg and a tenth the price for the deluxe version.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Forgot the link. http://jalopnik.com/343003/the-2500-tata-nano-unveiled-in-india


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Ross said:


> How about a Tata Nano? 53 mpg and a tenth the price for the deluxe version.


53 mpg won't kick our foriegn oil habit and it's made in the USA. Make you wonder about all the people claiming others technology is advanced past ours when an American made car may be the first production car to break the 100 mpg mark, let alone the 200 or 300 mpg mark.

Does that little Indian thing have a radio and climate control? not standard


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

I actually got that link to come up on my *dial up*.

When I saw the door . . . . aahhhh not for my 6'2"

Then the tv on the dash . . . . . . why?

oh well dream on..................


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Jim-mi said:


> I actually got that link to come up on my *dial up*.
> 
> When I saw the door . . . . aahhhh not for my 6'2"
> 
> ...


Designed for 6'1" and with a few seat mods can handle 6'4".

Actually 4 displays on the dash. 3 replace the rearview mirrors. Gives you 180 degree rear visabillity without any blind spots. Rear view mirrors create a lot of wind resistance. The 4th is all the rest of the displays for vehilce operation.

My dialup only took about 15 min to get all the pictures. I will say the "journey" took a long time and was pretty much a waste.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

A new 53 mpg car for $2500, wow! That "Tater" car kinda does resemble a potato - or a squished Toyota Yaris. I like it.

Although neat, the car itself is not a new concept. The Japanese have had their 660cc "Kei" cars for decades and the early 90s Geo Metro XFI was a 53/58 mpg car. 

I've always maintained that North America is, for the most part, a culture of extremes - either we drive a 18 mpg fuel hog or we talk about 300 mpg hybrids. It certainly would be nice to see more conventional combustion vehicles which were more efficient - and if it happens to look like a potato, so be it. 



Ross said:


> How about a Tata Nano? 53 mpg and a tenth the price for the deluxe version.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Hmmm. Could hold me & DH & 'Honey' dog ok. But what's with the rear? Does it fa** really big???

Patty


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Don't get me wrong I like the 325mpg I even like the car. We do so many short run gas burning trips it drives me nutz. On the other hand as Ontarioman says we keep hitting extremes rather than a workable cost effective solution to the problem o moving people. There no stats quoted but you have to think the Tata has a low carbon foot print for its production. You aren't getting anything but the basics for $2500


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Very nice.Then again I love my VW bug,and the Pinto,and the Chevette.

Wouldnt mind having a Smart,lot of room in that car.

2500,if it sold for that here they would sell a ton of em,great car for the college kid,etc.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

wy_white_wolf said:


> http://www.aptera.com/
> 
> Coming soon to Cali for @$30,000


The video sucks! I saw a much better one,but couldnt find it.

Little steep at 30 thousand so I will say,nice try but no cigar.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

mightybooboo said:


> ...nice try but no cigar.


Sorry you feel that way. Weren't you making positive comment on the Volt? At it's $50,000 and works out to 100mpg at 100 miles. This contains alot of the same technoloy and more.

Nice try but no cigar is about my opinion of the Tata. It sets the automotive industy backwords by about 40 years. No air bags or ABS. I would hate to try and get on the interstate with that thing. Dought you could get it up to speed fast enough to merge with traffic. What a death trap. If it were ever to hit the US streets it would end up being close to $10,000 by the time it was made safe enough for me to consider. May as well go by the chevy Areo.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

For those that like the Tata:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/01/how_to_build_a_4.php

I really liked the part about the wheel bearings and


> How do they do it? Strip it of safety and environmental standards and just about everything else.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

I'll give two examples of ultra-cheap vehicles sold in North America in the last 20 years which were seen as a "joke" when they first were available, some still consider them a joke :

- Ford Festiva
- Geo/Chevy Metro

Both of these cars have proven themselves to be ultra-efficient, ultra-reliable and extreme value vehicles, especially for their intended use - which was a fuel efficient people/person mover for the city. Neither of these cars had many if any luxuries, and the early versions did not have airbags (Metros from 95 and newer do have dual airbags). Ironically, the Metro was the first North American vehicle to meet 1997 safety standards in North America.

I really doubt you'd see any vehicle available here for $2500 - and perhaps the Tater will one day make it here, probably not - we see lots of stuff on the net which never makes into mainstream. What the publicity might do is light a fire under the North American automakers to start producing the "micro-cars" - because even a new Chevy Aveo 24/34 is not cutting it, not when a 1993 Metro XFI was at 43/51. North American automakers have to learn how to make money on small fuel-efficient cars, which is something they've never been able to do.



wy_white_wolf said:


> For those that like the Tata:
> 
> http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/01/how_to_build_a_4.php
> 
> I really liked the part about the wheel bearings and


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Sorry you feel that way. Weren't you making positive comment on the Volt? At it's $50,000 and works out to 100mpg at 100 miles. This contains alot of the same technoloy and more.


I like it,but for what you get at 30,000 its a little lacking.The other problem is it is going to be such small production vehicle I cant see the company surviving,so thats my nice try,no cigar. We need to get these vehicles out in large numbers and economy of scale,and I think Tata will succeed for that very reason.

Im leery of 30,000 for a car that I wonder if I can keep running if it needs parts or such.I *think* Chevy would back the volt with parts and service.

But I DO like it,very much.Would love to see and drive one,and if it really achieves those mileage ranges.300 MPG is quite a strong selling point,but 30 G is high for the vehicle size.

Wolf,there is no person who would more like to see an electric succeed,maybe this one will.I just dont have 30 G at this time and other things I need first before such a specialized vehicle.So I addressed it from MY personal position at this time.

So sorry if I rained on your parade,I didnt mean to,I think its pretty cool.

As for tata,at 2500 I like it,hey,my VW bug is a deathtrap too,wouldnt want to wreck in it either.But of course tata isnt coming here,could never make it worthwhile to meet our standards at a reasonable price.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

http://www.badboybuggies.com/index.html
http://www.badboybuggies.com/4x4.html

Video
http://www.badboybuggies.com/videos/Bad_Boy.html

What would work well for me,with my current plans is this vehicle.I wonder if I could get the golf cart exemption for old folks in California on it?If I could get into town where Im going this would be a SUPER retirement vehicle for me,could run it in snow and thats real useful for me.
Plus a homestead workhorse.At 10 grand for an electric 4x4 its far more practical for what I need than the Aptera.

As for Volt,lets see what they do or dont do with it,and if it comes out as a practical vehicle and a usable price.Wont know til we see it I guess.
If Im going to spend a lot I want a real sized car along the lines of the EV-1,something that has the size/performance of a modern sedan.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

If the government was truly worried about fuel usage, why wouldn't they work harder at making something like this street legal. If it's not able to be street legal on the highway, why not in the city at least. What about those little golf carts. 

http://houston.craigslist.org/rvs/531793306.html


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Most of the problems with gas mileage comes from all of the safety equipment the U.S. places on their autos. A car without all of the safety equipment would weigh much less and get much better gas mileage.
It is possible to build cars that do not even need a driver. With the computer on board each car it is possible to lower the number of auto accidents to almost none. This would reduce the amount of safety equipment needed on autos. It would also reduce the number of auto accidents and deaths resulting from them. Unfortunately it would also reduce the cost and profit from new autos and put many out of jobs that depend on auto accidents for a living.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

It looks like it would be safer than a motorcycle, and those are street legal.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

wendle said:


> It looks like it would be safer than a motorcycle, and those are street legal.


Thats true.

About the 30 HP tata,its drivable.We had a Renault Dauphine and it was 32 HP,did freeway speed but it was second gear,30-35 MPH up steep roads.

But it wasnt death on freeways,just a slug is all.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Cool looking car


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

Sounds similar to my 1971 Honda N600, but the honda is a 2 cylinder front wheel drive, gets 40 to 60+mpg depending on lots of things. Holds 4 people, goes 80mph (but you don't really want to).

It makes the wife's red Metro and my son's blue Civic look big:










I think that in 36 years they could do better than the Tata. Now, the whole concept of the Aptera interests me. If we want to continue having personal private individual transportation, we will need to look at the entire package, and decide what we really need to do and how to best do it.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

That N600 sure is cute, um I mean nice looking. I'm such a sucker for little hondas. 
Here's my pride and joy, last I checked it was getting 44mpg. 91 Civic Si , Manual 5speed 1.5. What's sad is most of the newer cars that are said to have good gas mileage only get 30mpg if they're lucky. I guess the car manufacturers make what sells, not what is efficient.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I really liked the 89 ford Festiva I had for a little over 5 years. Stick and it would hold enough stuff and feel reasonably safe. By the time I was looking for another car - I couldn't find a new one.

The 96 Mazda Protege stick shift, it was getting 41 mpg on the highway at the end. The lower engine air sensor was off, and that just seemed to make the fuel economy better.

And I'd love to have a Yellow Smart Car.

Angie


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

> I think that in 36 years they could do better than the Tata. Now, the whole concept of the Aptera interests me. If we want to continue having personal private individual transportation, we will need to look at the entire package, and decide what we really need to do and how to best do it.


 I agree but we'll need to have truck only roads or get back to rail for goods transport too. None of the modern cars will stand up to the bigger trucks (or even a one ton) and we're going to have to get tough on bad drivers so these smaller cars can be viable options. That N600 looks positively deadly its so small!!


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

I think there is a general misconception of "you're not safe in a micro-car" - in reality, the newer micro-cars here have airbags, meet side impact tests, etc. etc. As you mentioned, nothing will stand up to a big truck - so if you were to be in any collision, it won't make all that much difference if you're in a 2005 Pontiac Sunfire (popular small car) or a 2005 Smart Car. 

That 71 Honda N600 is a very cool car - but it was designed and built at a time when very little consideration was given to collisions. It is probably more unsafe because of its design as opposed to its size.

Fuel prices here have basically skyrocketed and continue to rise - so you're already seeing much more demand for smaller cars. In my opinion, the micro-cars have always been a viable option here, especially in the last 10 - 15 years, and especially for city use - but with previous low gas prices, nobody really wanted tiny cars - things are changing quickly.

For those who have sat through my speel, I too am an economy car fan :
- 1993 Mazda 323, 1.6 5-speed (just purchased this one)
- 1993 Geo Metro, 1.0 5-speed (currently on extended loan to my brother)

For those looking to save on fuel now, there are some absolutely great used economy cars available for low money : the Civic, Festiva, Metro, Swift, 323, Tercel, Echo... some VWs if you're into diesel...



Ross said:


> I agree but we'll need to have truck only roads or get back to rail for goods transport too. None of the modern cars will stand up to the bigger trucks (or even a one ton) and we're going to have to get tough on bad drivers so these smaller cars can be viable options. That N600 looks positively deadly its so small!!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Its also relative.While a truck vrs. car a truck might do better,in single vehicle accidents some trucks are horrible vrs. the small cars!Trucks are prone to roll overs and roll overs have high death rates.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Maybe electrics need to evolve like Honda and Datsun did,little tiny vehicles over many years until theyve evolved into a regular North American vehicle.

The Gem 2 would be an example.You can get a used one with 250-500 miles for about 4000 USD. Its practical in what it delivers,25 MPH speed,4 people or 2 people sized.Street legal on roads up to 35 mph.30 mile range,count on less. The 2 seater is 7000 USD new.

In my case our town doesnt have a road faster than 25 MPH.I could take the back road to the next town too.I would carry my 40 lb. Honda generator in it if I took that trip just to be sure.It would NOT take me off the mountain due to range or speed limits.

But up here it would meet many of my needs,in fact there are a couple up here I see in town occasionally.

If you fit in those parameters its a very practical car.

2002 Electric Car. Just like new!! only 227 miles on odometer. Red and white. New batteries. $3650.










2002 GEM 2 passenger Electric Golf Car. Only 350-400 miles. Runs and drives great. Street/turf tires. Current California street legal registration and Clear california title in hand. Includes rear trunk box and zip up side doors. White and grey. $3800. This was my grandpa's and he just passed away which is the reason for selling it


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Nice try but no cigar is about my opinion of the Tata. It sets the automotive industy backwords by about 40 years. No air bags or ABS.


I have never had much use for air bags or ABS... I run in to way too many things, that'd set off air bags... if I owned a vehicle with em, they'd've already deployed. ABS.... I'd just as soon my tires lock up when I press the brakes... the only time my ABS kicked in, it almost wrecked me.

I'd love to have an aptera... doubt if it or the Tata would like my rough ol road... reckon either come in 4wd?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

texican said:


> I have never had much use for air bags or ABS... I run in to way too many things, that'd set off air bags... if I owned a vehicle with em, they'd've already deployed.


A friend fell asleep driving,rear ended a parked car at about 40 MPH.She walked away with a scratched nose.

Our niece just spun out on the ice a couple days ago in Colorado in a Taurus.Head on into another vehicle.She walked away uninjured besides being 'very sore'.
The car was totaled.So 2 votes here,one for airbags and one for Taurus.

I worked in a level one trauma SICU.Airbags are the greatest life saving/injury preventive tech in cars to come along in a long while.
I drive a car with 8 of em!


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## YoungOne (Aug 22, 2006)

A car more for the fancy but WOW!!

ALL ELECTRIC
2 cents a mile
0-60 in under 4 SEC
125 mph

all for under $100K
http://www.teslamotors.com/


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

YoungOne said:


> A car more for the fancy but WOW!!
> 
> ALL ELECTRIC
> 2 cents a mile
> ...


Ahnold has bought one.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

I have friends in IN who went out to NM to purchase two VW early 80s diesels, a sedan and pickup. They say they routinely get 45 mpg on diesel. Both run biofuel fine.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

mightybooboo said:


> A friend fell asleep driving,rear ended a parked car at about 40 MPH.She walked away with a scratched nose.
> 
> Our niece just spun out on the ice a couple days ago in Colorado in a Taurus.Head on into another vehicle.She walked away uninjured besides being 'very sore'.
> The car was totaled.So 2 votes here,one for airbags and one for Taurus.
> ...


Yes, I'm sure they're saving lives..... I prefer a real bumper and an alert mind... airbags wouldn't work for me... I run into too many things... I also use my front bumper to straighten things out, using a sledge hammer to bang against it...


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

texican said:


> Yes, I'm sure they're saving lives..... I prefer a real bumper and an alert mind... airbags wouldn't work for me... I run into too many things... I also use my front bumper to straighten things out, using a sledge hammer to bang against it...


My BIL used his Cat Dozer to straighten out the bumper on my truck.We took it off and he banged away with the blade and did a surprisingly good job of it!


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

wy_white_wolf said:


> http://www.aptera.com/
> 
> Coming soon to Cali for @$30,000


How high does that thing fly? Way out of my price range but I guess it would be ok for those with money to spare as a secong vehicle. I need a vehicle with some room to haul stuff.


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## Rocky Fields (Jan 24, 2007)

Hey.

If it costs only $2,500 to buy, it probably will cost $10,000 a year to maintain. Remember what a piece of carp the Yugo was?

RF


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## Sand Flat Bob (Feb 1, 2007)

mightybooboo said:


> Thats true.
> 
> About the 30 HP tata,its drivable.We had a Renault Dauphine and it was 32 HP,did freeway speed but it was second gear,30-35 MPH up steep roads.
> 
> But it wasnt death on freeways,just a slug is all.


I had one of these also. Got great gas mileage, I could lift the front off the ground just by grabbing the front bumper and lift. If you want a modern version, look at a Nissan Versa. It is a Renault. They and Nissan have merged on some vehicles.

Bob


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I think I was about 12 years old when I did an engine overhaul on one.Lapped the valves,and it was a sleeved engine just pull em out and tapped in new ones.Sweet sweet engine,purred like a kitten.

I will look up that Versa,I for one like Renaults.


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## Sand Flat Bob (Feb 1, 2007)

mightybooboo said:


> I think I was about 12 years old when I did an engine overhaul on one.Lapped the valves,and it was a sleeved engine just pull em out and tapped in new ones.Sweet sweet engine,purred like a kitten.
> 
> I will look up that Versa,I for one like Renaults.


I have looked at the Versa very closely, they are a very nice car that gets very good mileage and has a lot of room for that class of car. My 1961 Renault was a very simple engine, took it apart and put it back together in a spare lot under a street light. Broke a valve spring and was looking for the keeper that went into the crankcase. I was 150 miles from home. It was a very fun car to drive. I was on a trip through Colorado and was stopped for speeding by a Colorado State trooper. I was going down the divide and it handled good, so was going around the curves above the posted speed limit. That little engine just would not hold it back to the speed limit, even though I was in a lower gear. It was funny looking back.

Look at the Versa, you will like it.

Bob


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## Blu3duk (Jun 2, 2002)

MightyBooBoo

I seen a couple of those cars like you posted in post #29 a couple years back when we were visiting my wifes kinfolk in Ukiah, i never could find what they were and the weather was not the best so i did not stop in and ask to test drive one of them..... but i thought WOW somebody has more money than they know what to do with if they drive one of those.....

on another note, as far as driving a gas guzzling SUV or other rig, take a pencil and sharpen it up real good, take the ppurchase price of the older suv, subtract that price from the price of a new rig that gets "green mileage" subtract the difference in mileage between the two and see how long it takes to pay off the difference in fuel.... it wont hardly ever pencil out..... logical mathematics vs advertising and emotional response

Nearly all my rigs get about 15 mpg, if i add a H2 generator i can increase that a mite without losing HP, if i knew exactly what John Lorenzen had on his 300 inline 6 ford that produced 100% of his fuel needs i would have the same on mine, oh and my 1985 4x4 F150 witha 351 4 barrel sucks the go juice at around 15mpg too, but it cost me $500 purchase 3 years ago, plus I had to replace a couple of $30 parts..... try penciling out the cost of a new rig against that.

William


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Yup, the cost of operating any vehicle depends on many factors : price of the vehicle, interest if you have to borrow for it, fuel, repairs, depreciation, etc.

Capability of the vehicle is another factor - most efficient vehicles are good only for transportation - no hauling and no towing.

Ironically, it is sometimes cheaper to actually own two vehicles - i.e. gas guzzling large vehicle (truck/van/etc.) and an econobox.

Personally, I would never buy a new vehicle



Blu3duk said:


> MightyBooBoo
> 
> I seen a couple of those cars like you posted in post #29 a couple years back when we were visiting my wifes kinfolk in Ukiah, i never could find what they were and the weather was not the best so i did not stop in and ask to test drive one of them..... but i thought WOW somebody has more money than they know what to do with if they drive one of those.....
> 
> ...


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