# Anyone here not vaccinate?



## MillsFarmFamily (Nov 14, 2005)

I really don't like a lot of medications, or shots. Does anyone have goats that they raise without all of the medications or vaccinations that I read about?


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Yes, I do not vaccinate. I have to do a lot of running today, and can't elaborate right now. But if you have any certain questions about my experiences, fire away and I'll answer when I get a chance. Feel free to PM me if you want also......


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

I do not usually vaccinate my goats for C&D or tetanus. We did the first year we raised goats and that was the year we were also feeding milk replacer. We lost more goat kids that year than any other year. The next year, we switched to pasteurized goat milk, and stopped vaccinating. The only goat to get vaccinated that year was Isis. The vet did it when I took her in for an injured foot. I would give tetanus shots to an injured goat, but I don't like to vaccinate either. You never know what all is in those shots. At the beginning of the show season, we usually give something called Nasalgen, to prevent pneumonia. I started doing this after my goats picked something up at a show. I lost a doeling that year a week after that show. Another breeder lost a kid, too and the vet said it had swine pneumonia. Last year, I got busy and didn't do the Nasalgen. My goats brought a respiratory thing home from the show again. I didn't lose any goats, but a doe I didn't even show caught the bug and it turned into nasty pneumonia. After a week of treating her with Nuflor and Banamine, she was well, but had stopped producing milk. Next year, I plan to use the Nasalgen again. It is administered through the nostrils. This is because I show goats. If my goats never left the farm, I wouldn't do it. Some of these respiratory viruses are just too contageous not to try and prevent them in goats who are exposed to the public. If my goats don't get sick, then I don't have to use antibiotics. As for using other medications, I don't give antibiotics unless a goat has pneumonia or scours that don't resolve themselves in 24 hours, or in the case of mastitis or injury or signs of polio. I am more free with administering vitamin shots and other natural things. I also worm and dust the goats because I've seen in another breeder's goats what can happen if parasites get out of control. For respirarory ills where the goat doesn't have a fever or act sick, I clean the nose and use something called Vet RX which is all natural and goes in the nostrils.


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## elgordo (Apr 9, 2005)

We also do not vaccinate. I would if there was a local outbreak of something or if someone in the herd came down with something but as a rule I do not. I do not show and they stay here so they aren't overly exposed to other animals, which can be chancy.
Starting with healthy stock, where you can observe the parents in a bonus. I'd always avoid the sale barn because you just don't know what you are getting.


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## oberhaslikid (May 13, 2002)

I do not vaccinate any more.My goats do not leave the farm if they do they do not come back.I do have it in the case someone wants thier kid vaccinated before they leave. I will give the first and they do it from there.I also try to give selinium and vitamin B tablets in stead of shots.but I do have it on hand if I have too.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

At the beginning of the show season, we usually give something called Nasalgen, to prevent pneumonia.

.........................................................

There are no pasturella vaccines in Nasalgen. And with pasturella haemoticula and multicidia being the pnemonias most goats get, like 99%, (if it's mycoplasma you might just as well start your herd over) I wouldn't bother using this...the alphabet soup of cow pnemonias IBR etc., that are on the label are not pnemonias goats get.

I of course vaccinate. Raising healthy does with excellent immunity who pass this immunity on to their kids via colostrum, is why my does are healthy and long lived. The loss of one animal because I don't want to spend 12 cents to vaccinate is a huge loss to the farm, milk, genetics etc. Goats are not human. They pass zero immunity to their kids via the placenta like humans do. Kids receive *ALL* their immunity via colostrum. So you want that colostrum to contain as much immunity as you can, so since we don't have tetanus (or the goat would be dead) or clostridium problems at the farm (likely becuase I have vaccinated for all of the 19 years I have had goats) or pnemonia or staph masitis, I vaccinated for these to continue not having it :nerd:

Besides if you vaccinate you don't have to TREAT disease. That's simply a fact, which makes my life soo much easier. Vicki


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## marvella (Oct 12, 2003)

as you can see, it's like most things- it depends on what you use them for.

i keep a herd of brush goats. i worm regularly, and only vaccinate for tetanus when i band bucklings.


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

I think you'd get a lot of feedback from both ends of this spectrum. I tend to go in the middle. I vaccinate pre-kidding moms for CD&T, give kids one shot and that's it for me. I feel all these kid boosters might be overkill. I also feel the vaccinations for disbudding or castrating a goat aren't absolutely necessary. Although with banding I could see the logic, even though I don't do it. There might be some worry about tetanus though if you keep horses as I understand that organism likes to hang out in manure. I do think there are many factors that determine vaccine need such as management practices, size of herd, whether you import/export goats from your place, showing etc. So I'm not one to preach either way. It's just what has worked for me and I have small herd.


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## Misty (May 29, 2005)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> At the beginning of the show season, we usually give something called Nasalgen, to prevent pneumonia.
> 
> .........................................................
> 
> ...


I agree wholeheartedly with Vickie. We use Super PolyBac B Somnus for pneumonia...1cc at 12 weeks and 1cc 21 days after. Pregnant does get it and Covexin 8 3-4 weeks prior to kidding. I sell meat kids to 4-Hers and don't want some kids wether dying because I did not vaccinate it. I think if you choose not to vaccinate, make sure you tell your buyers that you don't so that they can make the decision they want. I have bought a couple of things from the sale barn....Covexin and pneumonia and biomycin as soon as they get home. Before they are unloaded off the trailer.


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## Misty (May 29, 2005)

I did not mean to spell your name wrong...I should have looked first.


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## goatkid (Nov 20, 2005)

Thanks for the name of the goat vaccine for pneumonia. I'll see if it is available in my area. Most of the people who buy goat kids from me prefer that they do not receive vaccinations. If they request that a kid is vaccinated, I will do this for them.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

Ok, Now that the two town trips are over and the two birthday dinners are cooked, eaten and cleaned up after, I can elaborate....  
I do not vaccinate and have been very happy with the results. I have had goats for 5+ years this way. I am now up to 80-90 head of mostly dairy goats with about 16 Boers thrown in for good measure(I love the Boers). I am very careful where I buy my stock, and this is the last year I expect to bring any more does into my herd, after this I will be raising almost all my own replacement stock and only occaisionally bringing in bucks. I also do not push grain to my stock. They are raised primarily on browse in summer and hay in the winter, with a small amount of grain depending on their age and the time of year. I will say right now, that if you buy from salebarns, show your goats, or grain heavily, you probably should vaccinate just to cover your bases. To vaccinate or not is simply *your* decision. Don't let anybody tell you that one way or the other is *the* right way. Vaccination does not *insure* you will not get a disease, it may *help* insure you do not get a disease, but it is not a sure thing. All I can give you is my experiance. I have *never* vaccinated any of my goats. I have never lost a goat to any of the commonly vaccinated for diseases. Or anything that resembled them. Some folks say well...she wouldn't admit it if she had...or she would call it something else if she did lose one that way....Think what you will, but I like to know exactly what my goats died of if I lose one and I am honest about it. I'm sure I'll get some nasty looks as people read this but it is *my* business what I do with my goats. I tell all my buyers that I do not vaccinate, if they choose to do so, its their business. I do not reccomend non-vaccinating to anyone, it is a personal choice that should be made by the individual after study. I choose not too. And yes, I have already heard all the "you'll be sorry if....." Its a *risk* I choose to take. Do what you feel you should. And don't let anyone pressure you one way or another! :goodjob:


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## Jotun (Jan 19, 2005)

I agree with ozark and that also goes for dogs, cats,other livestock and children. You need to make the decision you feel comfortable with. You will be confronted with a lot of propaganda in the researching process so judge wisely. There is no one right way for everyone. Personally I think if it ain't broke don't fix it. No vaccines are 100% so it's only a false sense of security. The thing about horses is true though and we do vaccinate the goats for tetnus though this is mostly my wifes area, I have mixed feelings on it. A lot of people will scoff at anything so do be patient with them as they can't help it.


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## Hank - Narita (Aug 12, 2002)

We don't give our goats shots either. Our lady who dehorns gives tetnus to the kids and gives our moms their shots.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Hank - Narita said:


> We don't give our goats shots either. Our lady who dehorns gives tetnus to the kids and gives our moms their shots.



I am a little confused by your post. I don't think the question was do we PERSONALLY vax our goats or have someone else do it, I think the question was do we vax (or have them vaxxed) at all. 
Sounds like you have someone vax for you?
Did I interpret that correctly?


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## Misty (May 29, 2005)

goatkid said:


> Thanks for the name of the goat vaccine for pneumonia. I'll see if it is available in my area. Most of the people who buy goat kids from me prefer that they do not receive vaccinations. If they request that a kid is vaccinated, I will do this for them.


Jeffers sells it and so does Cee Sales 800-851-3170. They were working on a website last year, not sure what it is.


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## Eunice (Feb 9, 2005)

We have had goats for almost five years, and I have not vaccinated one or ever had the vet out, or lost a goat (yet). The day may come on the vaccinations, but I will not just do it to do it. Our goats are penned and fed year around, but I work hard on keeping them healthy with good nutrition. I try to keep the animal density down in each pen - keeps the stress down.


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## dosthouhavemilk (Oct 29, 2004)

We lost one of our first goats to overeating so dad is insistant that we vaccinate for it.
we used to have the kids vaccinated when they were disbudded (for most that was within one week of life). I am looking for something simple. I will be vaccinating the dams 4 weeks before their due dates and then vaccinate thte kids once after, just haven't decided when yet.

We vaccinate our dairy cows. Not for a lot, but for things that have occured here.


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## Sher (May 10, 2002)

I think this is a very situational thing. I mean, I don't vaccinate...I also don't sell milk to people, I also don't show, I also keep a closed herd, except for the buck once every four years or so. I also have a relatively small herd..that usually gets peeled back to the core mommas and buck every year. I also have plenty of room for each goat.

Some of our goats go for meat...the people buying them are just as happy not to have a bunch of vaccines in them. The others go for breeding stock. I ALWAYS tell the buyer that I don't vaccinate. They have the choice to buy or not buy. They can keep them going the way they have been started..or put them on vaccines when they buy them. 

Again...I can fully understand say Vicki..with her operation..I would have to break and vaccinate. But there is some wiggle room and no set in stone formula that everyone has to follow. 

I have done it this way for five years or so. Now if I break with something...all bets are off and I will have to restudy my thinking.


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## MillsFarmFamily (Nov 14, 2005)

We don't show, are only raising goats for fun, and to breed and sell, and for our own milk production. Most of the people that I know that would be interesting in purchasing our meat goats would rather them not have any vaccines. Thanks so much for all of the input.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

I've had goats for over 9 years now, and have never, given any shots to date. I have not had any die other than kids - one week old and younger. My goats also have not been wormed - the only thing close to wormer that I have used is Diatomaceous Earth, and so far, my goats are all healthy.

I drink the milk and have ate goat meat on occasion, and I prefer to eat them without anykind of vaccination.

People may say that they need to be vaccinated, but who gives the goats out in the wild shots?

Until I have a disease come through my herd (which is unlikely as I only buy one buckling / year from individuals - no more auction bucks - THANKS VICKI for educating me!) or have problems, I don't plan on changing my livestock raising.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

People may say that they need to be vaccinated, but who gives the goats out in the wild shots?
....................................

I love this question 

There is not one thing natural or organic about moving a goat from a wild situation into a barnyard. If you opened all your pens up, none of your goats would stay around, down south they would be up north in frozen Penn. with Michael  But seriously they would not choose to live in a barn or stay in a pasture (or 6 of them) that has their own manure in it day after day, year after year, they would not stay in one area more than a day. They certainly would not have their babies in confinement, or in anyplace they had frequented in months.

The mortality of goats raised on huge acerage, naturally, like in West Texas, is huge, as it is in the wild. 

I hope that my answers are taken in the spirit of which they are written. I vaccinate so obviously it's the only experience I have. I do answer questions on forums in the vein of my experience only, not what so and so does etc. or what I have read, and can tell you that most questions are helping folks who would not need the help had they vaccinated or wormed their goats correctly. The longer you have the goats on your own farm under the same management (which means not changing things with each time you visit a forum and someone comes on with new information) the healthier your goats will be. Some folks have nitemare first years with their goats, it's due to stress and miss information. Vicki


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## gccrook (Nov 21, 2003)

THis is a good thread. It's always good to hear from Vicki. It is a personal decision, and depends to some extent on your situation also. About goats in the wild, none of the goats we tend to raise (except maybe spanish) are really wild at all. They are domesticated breeds created to do certain things we want (milk, meat). Having said that, I also do not vaccinate, but that is my personal decision, and I already know the risk I run. My goats are healthy so far, and I try to do things to keep them that way (rotate pastures, keep sheds clean, good nutrition, etc). So, it is possible to have goats that are not vaccinated, and it is possible to raise good goats that are vaccinated.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

I am in the middle. I have vaccinated for pasturilla the 2 strains that Vicki mentioned. I had trouble w/ pasturilla because of high cocci levels and it caused secondary disease. Once I changed our management practices I have not lost any to pneumonia :dance: . I also do not grain my goats so CD/T is not a huge concern but I do still vaccinate for it. 

I ask the question why is the disease happening? There are normally underlying reasons for disease. Health should be the normal condition. Vaccinations and antibiotics can just sometimes gloss over problems. Are the goats too crowded. vicki hit it on the head talking about how unnaturaly we keep goats. The more confined and the more grain you feed the more problems there are. Sometimes conditions can't be helped so it is great that there are vaccines to keep the herd healthy. I am glad to know they are ther if I need them. If I know I am moving the goats or stressing them I would use a vaccine to ease problems. This might not work for frequent moves or high 

Animal husbandry practices are a very personal and induividual decisionbased on many factors. Two ranchers next door having the same practices will have very different results. I think is is vital we all express how we do things and then let the reader do with the info as they wish. There is ALWAYS more than one way to do something. Please have respect for others ideas. 

Happy goating, Katharine


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## moonspinner (Jul 2, 2002)

Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing something wrong with my light graining because so many breeders are quite generous with the feed. But I make sure my goats get a wide variety of browse (along with hay of course) right up til the snow falls and they get plenty of exercise. Also my goats are largely outdoor animals - except for inclement weather and nightime (summer they sleep outside too) I have never had a single case of pnemonia or even runny noses. The only real ill I've had to deal with (knock on wood!) is cocci in kids and the occasional mild lice problem in spring. I did have some coughing in kids last year with a real wet spring but they did get over it without meds.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Here's a question for you guys!
What does feeding grain have to do with CDT?
What do you consider to be "light graining"? 
I give my big girls about 12 oz. of grain @ twice a day. Sometimes I give them a little cracked corn and sunflower seeds as a treat midday, or to bribe them away from the fence if I need to get in to the babies and don't feel like wading through them or guarding the gate with my hands full...
I also give them broccoli stems, cut up apples and sometimes a handful of raisins...


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## billygoatridge (Feb 12, 2004)

It's good to see other people don't vaccinate. Sometimes I feel like the odd ball, but my feeling is if the system isn't broke don't fix it. In 20 + years of not vaccinating I've lost 1 kid to tetanus. Having 100 goats at times (when kids are on the ground) times twenty years, I don't think I would have paid for the one kid by giving all those vaccines. All my goats originated from first goat I got 26 years ago and I only buy a buck every 2-3 years so that may be why the non vaccinating method works for me I don't know. I'm not against vaccinating if a person is having a problem with a certain disease in their herd. I Just hate it when a person judges that I don't know what I'm doing or have healthy goats because I don't vaccinate.


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## Shazza (Nov 20, 2004)

I dont vaccinate. My experiences are small but the second goat I ever bought died after her first kidding and she had been vaccinated and also the owner gave selinium shots...the kidding probably had nothing to do with the vaccinating but it didnt make her any healthier than my other goat who I havent had vaccinated and who is still in the paddock today....4 years later. I also have just bought a new Saanen buck kid and he was vaccinated by the owner weeks ago with a 5 in vaccination that we do here (in Oz) and he is now 16 weeks and still has a big lump at the needle sight.
Most of the goat owners in our area dont vaccinate...I have never heard of the lung infection being picked up at our shows, maybe we dont have that here also ??


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## coso (Feb 24, 2004)

When I was a kid we had a goat die of tetanus ( or rather we put it down before it died) I wouldn't want to wish that kind of death on anything. The few cents it cost to vaccinate is worth it to me. Same scenario with CD if you have seen a kid kicking and screaming because its stomach hurts so bad the few cents it cost would be worth it. Vaccines just help the animal build an immunity to a disease, so if they do contract it they can fight it better. If the herd happens to get a disease that they havn't been vaccinated for they build up a immunity to it, for example soremouth, except soremouth doesn't kill. Your just putting the cart before the horse. My .02.


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## chas (Dec 12, 2004)

I tried the vacs and all the required shots(supposedly)when I started back into goats a few years ago.I couldn't figure why I lost so many that year?
After reading up on vacs that I don't or wont use for myself I just quit using vacs and just about eliminated grains.After saying that I'll probably have trouble :shrug: 
To each his own.
Study, Study, then go with an informed idea.Luck happens and so does S - - -  
Chas


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## midkiffsjoy (Sep 29, 2005)

All my life we've vaced our cattle and when I got goats I heard alot from peple who dont. So I tried not, and one morning Mom called me to let me know that one of the wethers I was training to be a cart goat (one of a matched team) was laying on the ground twitching, and screaming. We got him in the truck and found a vet who was willing to see us on a Sunday, but we had to drive for an hour to get to him. Vet said Tonie had Tectnus (sp) and that IF he made it through the next 24 hours he'd make it. After getting his vac (that I SHOULD have given him when I banded him) I took him home and made him as comfortable as I could in the garage. I never knew the walls of my house were so thin cause we got to listen to him scream for the next 26 hours. Then he died. I should have just shot him when Mom called me. Now I vac, cause if its good enough for my high dollar livestock its good enough for my goats too, and I will NEVER take a chance on that happening again !!! It only takes living through it once.


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

I would be very surprised if anyone here is making the decision to vaccinate or not based on the cost of the vaccine. It's a health issue, whether you think your goats are healthier being vaccinated or not being vaccinated. Just thought I'd mention that because your tone here makes it sound like people are just too cheap to vaccinate, when in fact, they may have done a lot of research and decided it was better for their goats not to vax.



coso said:


> The few cents it cost to vaccinate is worth it to me. Same scenario with CD if you have seen a kid kicking and screaming because its stomach hurts so bad the few cents it cost would be worth it.


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## midkiffsjoy (Sep 29, 2005)

homebirtha said:


> I would be very surprised if anyone here is making the decision to vaccinate or not based on the cost of the vaccine. It's a health issue, whether you think your goats are healthier being vaccinated or not being vaccinated. Just thought I'd mention that because your tone here makes it sound like people are just too cheap to vaccinate, when in fact, they may have done a lot of research and decided it was better for their goats not to vax.



*waves hand in the air* If no one else does than I'll step up and be honest. 

Hi. My name is Joy Midkiff, and after a lifetime on the ranch, I listened to a whole lot of people and CHOSE not to vac because I am CHEAP. Most lifetime ranchers ARE. We cut EVERY corner we CAN. When I was a kid my dad wouldnt even buy me new jeans if I wore a hole in the BUTT, I just had to patch them and live with the shame, wearing them to school cause thats what I had. So I tried not vacing because I'm CHEAP, and I lost a great matched team goat to a disease that could have been prevented if I had just snitched some of mom's cattle ivemec. (Isnt that terrible??? I didnt even KNOW that I could use a vac that we ALREADY HAD). After watching him die a horrible death due to my CHEAPNESS and LAZINESS I now vac. I have nothing against people who chose to vac. I also have nothing against gays getting married, and women who get abortions because its none of my business what other people do. My choice is mine and their's is their's. Anyone else want to admit that they tried not vacing cause they were cheap and/or lazy ????


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## midkiffsjoy (Sep 29, 2005)

MillsFarmFamily said:


> Most of the people that I know that would be interesting in purchasing our meat goats would rather them not have any vaccines.



Only someone who is EXTREMELY irresponsible would sell a goat that had been vaced in the last month to someone for meat.


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

midkiffsjoy said:


> Only someone who is EXTREMELY irresponsible would sell a goat that had been vaced in the last month to someone for meat.


I think the point is that some people don't want to eat animals that have *ever* had vaccinations. We are one family that prefers not too. We have had Jersey cattle and Jersey crosses for 17 years now and have never vaccinated one of them. Our oldest cow is now 14 and still produces a calf every year. We raise and eat our own beef and goats and prefer the less medicated the better. And no vaccinations. So its not just the last month or so that concerns many people........


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

homebirtha said:


> I would be very surprised if anyone here is making the decision to vaccinate or not based on the cost of the vaccine. It's a health issue, whether you think your goats are healthier being vaccinated or not being vaccinated. Just thought I'd mention that because your tone here makes it sound like people are just too cheap to vaccinate, when in fact, they may have done a lot of research and decided it was better for their goats not to vax.


Thank you for that acknowledgement...... :nerd:


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## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

midkiffsjoyI lost a great matched team goat to a disease that could have been prevented if I had just snitched some of mom's cattle ivemec. (Isnt that terrible??? I didnt even KNOW that I could use a vac that we ALREADY HAD).[/QUOTE said:


> I'm a bit confused here......Ivomec is not a vaccination, its a wormer. Did you lose a goat to worms or to a disease??? Worms are a problem, but vaccinations don't help prevent worm loads. Only worming does that. :nerd:


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## coso (Feb 24, 2004)

It is a personal choice. Didn't mean to say you were cheap if you didn' t vaccinate. Just meant that if you used money for a excuse not to vaccinate it isn't a very good one, because it is cheap insurance. To me it is like buying insurance. You may never need it but it sure helps if something goes wrong. My.02


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## coso (Feb 24, 2004)

Here is a page to look at from the Dairy Goat Journal http://dairygoatjournal.com/issues/01_02_05.html#article3 gives some info on vaccinations.


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