# about 1 in 7 receives food stamps in US



## kabic (May 12, 2009)

Here is some data of what parts of the country receives the most assistance with food stamps. Maybe useful for those who beleive they may have to defend their stores from the masses when the goverment stops giving aid.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/05/03/about-1-in-7-americans-receive-food-stamps/


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

It's too bad that so many households are eligible. But it is better to use taxes to stop hunger rather than use them to make war.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

Trips to the grocery store have shown me that Oregon has high food stamp usage. Sometimes I get pretty ticked off by what I see being bagged up for food stamp users, sheesh many of them eat better (as in more expensive cuts of meat), than we do (some eat worse because of poor food choices)
Back in the eighties we were on food stamps for two months, there were a lot more restrictions back then.
Oregon is looking at restricting the lifetime amount of financial aid given, NOW 5 years, SOON down to 18 months. Budget crisis.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Wow. What was interesting to me is the RISE in usage, indicating the economy has had a noticable impact on what the usage was a year ago. My state (NC) had DOUBLE the rise percentage than any state surrounding me! 
I knew things here sucked. I shouldn't be shocked to see it confirmed.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

My husband is a foreman and when one of his guys complains about a job hubby says "Be glad you have a job, tomorrow it may be gone, so either shut it or go sit in the van and hope you get a call for work tomorrow".
Complainers are easily replaced these days of so many out of work.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

on fox yesterday, they said the fed goverment had robbed the pension funds to finace the goverment til Aug.
I am looking for articles about this but haven't found any yet.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Unless there are hard and fast limits on welfare, there'll be long term dependency problems.

Anyone finding themselves suddenly unemployed, or broke, should be able to get assistance for a few months. After six months, it's a lifestyle choice. The person should either change their lifestyle, or move, to where there is a chance of making a living. I know folks who've been on 'relief' for several generations... they have less than zero incentive for working or taking care of theirselves, or their broods... why bother, when someone else will do it.

I wish there wasn't a need for 'relief'... Localize 'relief' and a lot of problems would disappear within a year (folks with morality issues would find discover the right path in life, or be turned away...). 

Of course, 'reform' such as this would never happen, as the welfaristas would rather go to war (riot/loot/burn) than work. We as a nation have reached the point that there are more people not working than there are working. These are the people you have to worry about... In a bad old teotwawki, everyone not prepped is subject to becoming a "zombie".... those dependent on handouts will zombify first. We're on a one way track over a cliff... if we don't reform/eliminate our welfare/entitlement expenditures, the bus IS going off the cliff... taking all of us down with it.


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## used2bcool13 (Sep 24, 2007)

can't agree with you more Texican.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

I question whether the criteria may be too low. Are there really1 in 7 who can not afford to feed themselves. Granted they may have to give up cable, cigs, beer, soda, cell phones, but really one in 7, I am not buying it.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

WOW! We are currently getting them as you all know, but working hard to get off them. 
I am very grateful to have the help, but don't want to always need it.

I think also that at least here it would be nice if there were some little pamphlets or something that taught people more about cooking from scratch ect. or something. We eat the occasional junky food to be honest but really I don't think alot of people know how to even cook dry beans or that sort of thing. You can eat alot cheaper with noodles, rice and dry beans than premade stuff. stuff can be added to them to make a complete and filling meal. People say they don't have time too make stuff but if you're hungry you make time. crockpots/rice cookers ect. can help. Only in the odd circumstance is there no way to make food from scratch. when we had bad water then the rice ect. had added cost to it for cooking...

I think that they need to let people know that plants and seeds are available on the program. That info is practically hidden! You can get alot more food from a 
a tomato plant than the same $$ spent on a few tomatoes already grown at the store.

People put dh down for working at wal-mart and have laughed in his face. I'm glad that he still keeps going and working and doesn't just give up and want to stay on assistance for food. I'm sure for some though it could be really hard and even drive them to want to stay home and collect help instead of working.

I had no idea there was so many other people using FS and that it had increased so much! Our states (we use them in 2 states often since we are near the line) are both light states though but I see misourri has more...Iowa too...


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## 10kids (Jun 24, 2010)

Some of my husband's family is Mormon. Their Church welfare system is, or used to be, a large garden on church ground. If you need assistance, and are able, you are expected to work in the garden in exchange for food. That is the system this country should have had all along.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Oh and Bruce here's the criteria

http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/applicant_recipients/eligibility.htm

Theres no way we'd need FS's if we made 3-4k a month even with 10 people here with the way things are right now.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

ne prairiemama said:


> WOW! We are currently getting them as you all know, but working hard to get off them.
> I am very grateful to have the help, but don't want to always need it.


About 13 years ago my wife and I were on WIC, so I can relate to your situation. I don't think we were on it long, but mostly because we hated the grade of food that it allowed. We didn't particularly need it at the time but because we qualified for it we were convinced we ought to apply for it.

I don't particularly have a problem with assistance, I just don't think it should be government run. Would be much better if you and your brood were my neighbor and could come help me in the garden. The benefit I'd get out of that would be far greater than the loss of what it took to feed your family. 

So knowing that you're on food stamps ... what are you doing to stretch those limited funds further to feed your family? There would be a great lesson in that for the rest of us, as I think before too much longer food will be rationed or simply unavailable.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Ernie that would be SUPER!! We would LOVE that! It would be fun! I agree it shouldn't be government run. I think people have mostly forgotten how to work together because they don't have to. They are "independant". Working together is going to be key I think though when things get worse. I'd MUCH rather work for something and have someone willingly help than get something "free" from the gov. who is sorta robbing them of it...


To make our food money stretch we are buying seeds and plants for now and they will make food later as far as the fruit bushes ect. Our seeds are mostly ones that can be saved out of the plants so when things are worse we'll still have some. We're learning to garden. Hopefully I won't kill everything lol.
We eat alot of brown rice, dry beans and noodles. 
The pintos make great chili and you can substitute lentils in say tacos and spagetti for all or part of the meat.
We buy wheat berries instead of bread and make it from scratch (healthier too!) as well as rolls/buns pizza crust ect.
We buy in bulk when there are sales. With the Ma and Pa store here we get a case discount price and since dh works at Walmart we get a discount on a few of the food things there too,not all. (bulk is good for our family size and like you all know for inflation protection)
We try not to waste any food. If something does get wasted usually we can feed it to the hens so it's turned into usable food again :goodjob:

Those are a few things, I don't want to ramble too much (too late huh?) or get t he thread too off track but I'm sure there's more lol.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Im surprised it isnt higher actually.I dont mind feeding hungry people,I left my politics on the rest of subject out it.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

It's too bad that home-ec skills aren't taught at home or in public schools. If people knew how to make bread, tortillas, can foods, grow a garden, and things like that they could more efficiently feed themselves on less money. They wouldn't be living hand to mouth even if they did need some food subsidy like food stamps. It would just be more cost effective and better for people as a whole. And an even bigger problem is that some Moms would not presently be able to teach their children those skills needed to help feed themselves because they never learned them from their homes or schools. We need a widespread educational push towards growing and cooking our own foods.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

mekasmom said:


> It's too bad that home-ec skills aren't taught at home or in public schools. If people knew how to make bread, tortillas, can foods, grow a garden, and things like that they could more efficiently feed themselves on less money. They wouldn't be living hand to mouth even if they did need some food subsidy like food stamps. It would just be more cost effective and better for people as a whole. And an even bigger problem is that some Moms would not presently be able to teach their children those skills needed to help feed themselves because they never learned them from their homes or schools. We need a widespread educational push towards growing and cooking our own foods.


I would love to see these things taught / valued in schools!

However for the majority of the people on the gov't teat, they are too lazy to make their own bread, weed a garden, or can veggies. Even if they had the knowledge, they wouldn't bother :shrug:


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Sounds to me like parents need to teach these things. how can we complain about being too dependant on goverment and then complain cause the schools don't teach enough skills to our kids?


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

SquashNut said:


> Sounds to me like parents need to teach these things. how can we complain about being too dependant on goverment and then complain cause the schools don't teach enough skills to our kids?


Good point. The public schools are too busy teaching gay history to worry about practical skills...

I wish i was taught this stuff from a young age so I didn't have to learn NOW. I'm learning though and my kids are learning too so at least they will have the tools to feed themselves ect. better  They think its fun and I have to admit I am enjoying it too.


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## Strange Bear (May 13, 2002)

It would be nice if anyone who is on welfare has to be on birth control. Then the population of welfare (generational) recipients would decrease. Probably not soon enough though.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

ne prairiemama said:


> Good point. The public schools are too busy teaching gay history to worry about practical skills...


Don't know what public schools you went to :shocked: but the public schools around here are too busy trying to cram enough english/math into the kids' heads to pass NCLB to teach anything else! 

Science, arts, PE, home ec, all of that has been minimized by the Feds. No critical thinking skills needed - just the ability to memorize and spit things out on a multiple-guess exam :shrug:


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

There are also people whose food purchasing choices are restricted because of their options for food storage or preparation (i.e. they may not have a working stove or oven, or even a refrigerator) and some people CANNOT cook. I know a man who has a seizure disorder, and he is not allowed to use a stove or an oven. He can use a microwave; I don't know if he could use a Crock Pot. His sister lives across the street from him and looks after him, so he doesn't have to totally rely on prepared foods.


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

Wow, I was surpised my state (Okla.) wasn't one of the darkest states! I figured it would be one of the worst as seems everyone around here where I live is on FS. My area has been hit real hard with poverty. Just about every manufacturing plant has moved to China or Mexico. Housing and building construction has come to a halt. What business are hiring are mostly exploiting the new help. They'll hire new employees and work them till about a month before their probation period is up and then lay them off. It has become so difficult to find a job and keep that job for a lot of people. I drive a school bus. The school use to have a hard time finding bus drivers. Now there's about 10 people waiting for me to quit so they can try for my job. If I was to quit, I'd probably never get it back. Been driving for 3 years now.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Well, nothing surprises me about this map.

If you did an overlay of poverty and population centers, I think everyone would readily see the correlations.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

As someone who has been in Sarah's shoes I always get a little miffed when people say, "the majority of welfare recipients...anything". I understand why the stereotype is there, I just don't like being lumped into it. 

How we got off the "teat" was by investing our tax refund in chickens(9 meat birds in the freezer right now), shopping at Aldi's or sales only, bought some ND goats for milk, had a bottle calf given to us(as well as 2 heifers out of triplets given to us by FIL that are still on momma) and just other cuts in spending. Are we money rich? Nope, I am still going to school and DH works 2nd shift at a job that could go at anytime, and he is having health issues from working there. Could we be back on at anytime? If we absolutely had to then yes. Oh, we've also got a pretty good garden in the making. 

What the OP originally posted this for was because of fears of rioting and such if the teat is gone. We live in(outside really) a small town where I would guess at least 30% of the population is on some sort of welfare. The food stamp users aren't the ones that worry me. It's the drug users that are on medicaid. A huge percentage of this town is addicted to pain pills thanks to their own addictions and the wonderful doctor in town who would rather prescribe Hydrocodone than Ultram(a non narcotic). He was actually ran out of another town and sanctioned by the gov't because of some sort of medicare fraud. Now, if they greatly reduce Medicaid and these "seekers" aren't able to get their fix....we've got big problems. Huge problems. The crime rate will go up due to theft and violent crimes. There will also be those going through the DTs that get extremely ill from it. Hungry people don't scare me near as much as drug users. 

Just a side note-we'd better be careful on this thread not to turn it political-Angie the Angry will come get us!


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

bluemoonluck said:


> Don't know what public schools you went to :shocked: but the public schools around here are too busy trying to cram enough english/math into the kids' heads to pass NCLB to teach anything else!
> 
> Science, arts, PE, home ec, all of that has been minimized by the Feds. No critical thinking skills needed - just the ability to memorize and spit things out on a multiple-guess exam :shrug:


Agreed! But, when they came home they, PE (playing outside), Science (nature walks and scouting projects), arts (ours like to make their own books) and home ec (diswasher, helping with the evening dinner, etc.). 
School is not the end all be all of life. They need to learn the skills and learn them in a way that makes sense. In the current "reality", if you will. Parents should be available to teach their own kids above and beyond the school...to a pint. I am not a teacher, nor could I be a teacher to 20 kids in a classroom .... but I can teach my kids right from wrong and good from bad and in a way that they appreciate it.
Matt
ETA, nope, we receive no gvt assiatance. Nor do we wish to.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

Has it changed that much since I was in HS 16-20 years ago? I took Home Ec, World Foods and even a class called Senior Life Skills that taught us how to balance a checkbook, comparison shop, choose an insurance co etc...we learned how to make biscuits, cook on a budget and other things. Granted they were "elective" courses. I know they still have at least some of the classes for Home Ec. They did get rid of Industrial Technology, which I thought was horrible. I don't have kids in HS yet to know what exactly they are offering.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

I did not get a garden out last year until July. We had a very wet spring. Once planted we went into a drought & I got nothing out of the garden.  This year is starting the same. We had almost 14" of rain in April. Tomorrow is supposed to be sunny which will be the first sunny day in May. More rain by the weekend. I need the garden this year. I really hope the rain shuts off soon to allow it. Hubby's hours were cut 2 years ago & have not picked up yet. I started a part-time cleaning job in the evening. I know we qualify, but I do not want to sign up for them. I just need the weather to cooperate. I have goats for milk & chickens for eggs so that helps. I cook & bake from scratch also. I am depressed every time I have to go to the store. Prices are getting worse & worse.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

I work once a month at a food pantry in the small town where I live. 2 years ago we served an average of 50 families a month. In April the total was 81 families. The majority of these folks also get food stamps or other assistance. Like others have mentioned, being on assistance for a few months, even a year is fine. But I get a bit discouraged to see the same folks coming to the food pantry for years on end. It is hard to get work in this small town or even the surrounding towns, but I still believe assistance should be limited and people expected to do community service when receiving government assistance. 

For example, we needed a couple of folks to help unload the food pantry trailer once a month and to pack the boxes. We posted a notice. Not a single person receiving assistance offered to help. Heck, most of them won't even bring a box to put the food in. The volunteers spend time and effort to round up boxes as well as fill them, unload the trailer, etc. I wish we could make it a condition of receiving help to give some help, but the Texas Food Bank won't allow it. Sheesh.

BTW, I've qualified for food stamps for several years, but haven't found the need for them as I cook from scratch and budget carefully.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

whiskeylivewire said:


> Has it changed that much since I was in HS 16-20 years ago? I took Home Ec, World Foods and even a class called Senior Life Skills that taught us how to balance a checkbook, comparison shop, choose an insurance co etc...we learned how to make biscuits, cook on a budget and other things. Granted they were "elective" courses. I know they still have at least some of the classes for Home Ec. They did get rid of Industrial Technology, which I thought was horrible. I don't have kids in HS yet to know what exactly they are offering.


Thats what an education should be.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

This is a direct result of GATT and NAFTA.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

I also feel that if someone is on assistance they should do community service, be it picking up trash alongside the highway, working at the humane society, prepping food for the elderly food delivery service, trail up keep in State and National forests, so on and so forth.
My neighbor is a retired teacher, one day I asked her what she thought about school supply donations, she said she's against doing that because if a student is given supplies the parent doesn't make sure the supplies are taken care of as well as if the parent had to purchase them. The same can be said of some (not all) folks on assistance...they didn't work for it so they spend with less care.
If we had to get 'help' we would most surely spend the money on the important basics, flour, rice, beans, oats, storable protein, dry milk, etc.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

mekasmom said:


> It's too bad that so many households are eligible. But it is better to use taxes to stop hunger rather than use them to make war.


I resent it _mightily._

MOST of the people who have vision cards (the no shame fancy version of food stamps) use them for cash to go to bars, very expensive convenience store junk food, and are able bodied and could get a job, they just don't want to do so. Government is terrible at determing who really needs help, so they just throw our money around willie-nillie.

That said, I know there are good people who are just down and out who really need the help, and I would gladly help them out.

At the very least I would have local or state government be incontrol of programs like FS. The Fed is way too big to oversee who really needs help, and who is just milking the system. THAT is the real reason the FS numbers are so high.

My nephew works at a convenience store here, third shift. At midnight on the day their cards are loaded up with your money, there is a line out the door to get cash and buy twinkies, cigarillos and red bull.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

ne prairiemama said:


> I think also that at least here it would be nice if there were some little pamphlets or something that taught people more about cooking from scratch ect. or something. ....... I don't think alot of people know how to even cook dry beans or that sort of thing. ...


Well now that is just silly. If someone doesn't know how to do something, well dang it go read a book. Sheesh.

Personally I think food stamps should be replaced with a couple of chickens and some seeds. If you want to eat, you'll figure it out.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

Strange Bear said:


> It would be nice if anyone who is on welfare has to be on birth control.


How about just a monthly drug test. That would eliminate 90% of them.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Unfortunately, many if not most of the people who are on long-term assistance probably cannot teach their children how to grow gardens, can foods, cook from scratch. That's why schools would have to pick it up, or perhaps, make FS recipients attend educational classes on the subject to receive benefits. I also liked the idea of community service work for them too. That way they could learn some job skills. I realize that long term recipients are in a differnt situation than people who simply fell into hard times. And those long term recipients whose families have been on benefits for generations probably just don't have the knowledge or education to provide for themselves through a garden or to cook from scratch. They cannot teach their children what they were never taught.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

alot of us on here are self taught.


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

I believe 70% of Americans live in urban areas, so I don't think chickens and veg seeds would solve the food/food stamp problem....it will take a myriad of sensible ideas. I'm in a "country city" these days, and grow a big garden. but it's an archaic skill here. ldc


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## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

I do believe MO has a law proposed to drug test welfare recipents. Good idea. Man, I'm really naive...one night the nurse aides were talking about all the ways to scam Welfare, walmart,etc. Lots of selling of stamps for cash. The only time we got food stamps I had more food money than I'd ever had....yet they told a neighbor she couldn't have home canned food and still get stamps! She always had a big garden and worked hard to provide for her kids. Did get Wicc for a while and we had to attend nutrition classes but they were remedial and no one was paying attention anyhow. DEE


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## NorthTexasGuy (Sep 8, 2008)

In my area (SE OK) Social Security Disability has become the preferred Govt program. I recently moved back to OK from North Texas and am baffled at how many people are either on it or trying to get on it. It appears they work harder trying not to work than if they'd just work. This part of OK is poor, but the job situation is better than most of the state. Jobs are out there if you are persistent.

When I was a teenager I sacked groceries for a couple of years in North Texas. It was routine to see young mothers buy their groceries on WIC or FS and then have a separate transaction for beer/cigarettes/etc. They bought meat like I'd never seen. Those I witnessed on FS definitely ate better than my family. I still remember this man that bought with FS every week and drove a new pick-up. Those experiences are still fresh in my mind 20 yrs later. I know some are truly in need, and it should be there for them. But perpetual assistance is the unfortunate conclusion for many.

Another story - I rented a place to a Katrina evacuee from New Orleans a few months after the disaster. He told me his first priority was to get a job. FEMA paid his full rent for 1 1/2 yrs. In that time he never got a job. And when they started weening him off the program he moved because he couldn't come up with $50/mo. 

The common theme here is that assistance becomes long-term due to our natural bent as humans. As long as a program is available there will be those trying to stay on it. Human nature hasn't changed since Adam and Eve. The ugly truth is we are all born bad. The only lasting solution is to get a heart transplant from Jesus Christ. He is the only answer for turning bad into good. Don't get me wrong Christians still do wrong, but desires change almost immediately after the previously mentioned transplant. 

I hope I haven't stepped outside the bounds of the discussion, but it is relevant. After all we all know right from wrong, but it takes Civil Laws with unpleasant consequences to deter bad behavior.

Kyle


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## NorthTexasGuy (Sep 8, 2008)

Unemployment compensation is another widely abused Govt program. While we were living in Texas my wife was laid off after 22 yrs at the same company. They had many temporary shutdowns before she was let go. During these shutdowns the employees were eligible for unemployment, so we were well versed in the ways of Texas Unemployment. After being let go she immediately starting drawing a weekly check. We had started making plans for her to be able to quit even before the layoff, so she wasn't looking for a job. Mind you this happened earlier than we had planned. After about a month of unemployment checks I told her to stop calling it in. In order to get it she had to enter her job searches online every week. This was fraud in my opinion since she had no intentions of going back to work. That was two years ago - I wonder how long we could have stayed on the "teat"? And how many times is this repeated across our country? Some people told us we were entitled to the money because she paid into the program. I didn't see it that way.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

texican said:


> Unless there are hard and fast limits on welfare, there'll be long term dependency problems.
> 
> 
> I wish there wasn't a need for 'relief'... Localize 'relief' and a lot of problems would disappear within a year (folks with morality issues would find discover the right path in life, or be turned away...).
> ...


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Regarding the choices made by people getting assistance. You generally hear about the difficulty in purchasing fresh foods with food stamps, food assistance cards, etc. All of the farmer's markets I have been to in my area accept the local food assistance cards. I thought this was a great thing, just wish more people would take advantage of it.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

timfromohio said:


> Regarding the choices made by people getting assistance. You generally hear about the difficulty in purchasing fresh foods with food stamps, food assistance cards, etc. All of the farmer's markets I have been to in my area accept the local food assistance cards. I thought this was a great thing, just wish more people would take advantage of it.


I think pricing is an issue too. We use to have people come into the mission all time who could afford ramen, spaghetti, and other processed, filling foods on their fs allotment, but couldn't afford to spend $15 a week on fresh veggies. They just didn't have the allotment amount for buying fresh or for buying a lot of protein. It was worse for people who worked because the allotment amounts were much smaller than they were for those completely on welfare with free housing, free cellphones, free medical......


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

I think a lot of the problem is that people on FS see it as free money(some of them at least). When I was on them I used coupons, I still shopped sales. I think that some people also see frozen Tony's pizzas, 5/$10 or hot pockets 5/$10 and think this is a better deal than fresh fruits and veggies. It's not of course.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Earthkitty, 
cash on the food card is not food stamps. we can't get cash from our food card. If someone uses their card to get cash $ then they are on another program like tanf or something. foodstamps can only be used for foodstuff no cash. they are all on the same card but only people on some other program get anything but food. If you go through a checkout the register machine will seperate the cost of food from non food. I don't know exactly how the other programs work though (never used it) just what I said.

I wish our farmers markets would take it! We have a bunch of fm's in our state but theres only one (far away) that takes them. I'm just hoping I can keep our garden alive so we can eat our own produce this year!

Oh and I don't know if some would know what to read, of course if they were interested they could probably figure it out. you know if I had the chance I wouldn't mind teaching another person how to cook from scratch if they did that...I would love to bring meals to the elderly or do something like that in trade for the help we get. That would be nice and the kids could even be involved with volunteering to help others. The only thing is with some of that stuff the travel involved would be prohibitive because of gas costs...


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

ne prairiemama said:


> I'm just hoping I can keep our garden alive so we can eat our own produce this year!


After yesterday's wanton destruction in the cabbage patch by rogue chickens, I'm hoping I can do the same.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

Ernie said:


> After yesterday's wanton destruction in the cabbage patch by rogue chickens, I'm hoping I can do the same.


Oh no! Well I planted a couple of tomato plants and put a cut up milk jug over them so the chickens wouldn't eat them but one of them turned white (I forgot to take the lid off the 1st day so maybe thats why???) and looks pretty much dead...the other doesn't look to hot either :smack


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

This year I'm thinking the absolute best way I can get the maximum amount of nutrition out of my garden is to fence it off and put a pig in there. At the end of the gardening season, eat the pig.


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## Guest (May 8, 2011)

whiskeylivewire said:


> When I was on them I used coupons, I still shopped sales.


Me too.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Regarding the people who were buying beer, cigarettes, etc. with their "food stamp" cards: Some states are putting child support payments on a prepaid debit card. Now, I don't think people should be using child support for that either (and I can think of several parents who stopped paying for this reason - that the money wasn't being used for the kids) but yeah, those cards can be used any place that takes a debit card.

I've been on unemployment in recent months, and my money was on such a card too. It looks just like a VISA card.


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## wagvan (Jan 29, 2011)

earthkitty said:


> How about just a monthly drug test. That would eliminate 90% of them.


Statistically the majority of people on food assistance are children. So drug tests and birth control are not particularly useful. I get people's vents but a lot of the things that people gripe about either has been eliminated in the past few years by changes in how it is run, or just doesn't jibe with the facts of the matter. Personally I'd like to see all of it local. Local folk know who is the scammers and are better able to tailor the response to the need. The federal government is just to big to handle it efficiently.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

wagvan said:


> Statistically the majority of people on food assistance are children. So drug tests and birth control are not particularly useful. I get people's vents but a lot of the things that people gripe about either has been eliminated in the past few years by changes in how it is run, or just doesn't jibe with the facts of the matter. Personally I'd like to see all of it local. Local folk know who is the scammers and are better able to tailor the response to the need. The federal government is just to big to handle it efficiently.


Any one who read this knows they were talking about drug testing the adult in charge of spending the welfare. Let's not twist this to mean some thing it doesn't mean.


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## wagvan (Jan 29, 2011)

SquashNut said:


> Any one who read this knows they were talking about drug testing the adult in charge of spending the welfare. Let's not twist this to mean some thing it doesn't mean.


I realize that, but was trying to point out that while we rant about people on foodstamps, that majority are children who are in that position through no fault of their own. 

As a kid in Detroit, going to Detroit public schools, I regularly helped classmates smuggle food out of the lunchroom (Extra apples and such that others were going to discard, but it was against the rules to take food out of the lunchroom). The reason they snuck food out of the lunchroom is, more often than not dad didn't exist and mom was a junkie and would sell the foodstamps, and the food they smuggled home from school was all the food they had to care for younger siblings and eat through the weekend. Now you may be saying, "See, proves my point, there needs to be drug testing..." But what actually happens more often than not is the children will bear the brunt of such a policy as their family is denied food stamps. I am far from a bleeding heart liberal. But it seems like so often many of the comments about "fixing" FS and other similar things is the quick fix, but is not backed up by the facts or experience of actual practice. 

Timfromohio had the right idea, get it down to the local level where you know the person that the help is coming from and going to. I would bet that at the local level, people would make sure that kids did not go hungry but kept scoflaw parents from milking the system. They also would be willing to go above and beyond to help those who had hit hard times or were trying very hard to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

Also WIC is not FS. It is not even considered a poverty or social program. It is a nutrition program for women at children. The income guidelines are at least double the FS income guidelines. 

And I put my money where my mouth is, I work with local and inner city hunger and homelessness programs and see the best and worst of people. A lot of formerly upper income folks (lots who made 6 and 7 figures before) have been coming through the doors for help here in MI. So the outside trappings from their previous life may not match what is their present reality.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

[[[[.....The only lasting solution is to get a heart transplant from Jesus Christ. He is the only answer for turning bad into good......]]]]

That's right, North Texas Guy, Those Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and Native American Animists are all pure evil evil evil. Bad bad wicked people, all of them. If there is any crime anywhere, you can bet your bottom dollar that it is a Buddhist at the base of it all.

Maybe you ought to consider having a talk with your Jesus about finding yourself some tolerance.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

I don't think that was called for Oregon Woodsmok.
I'll quote Sqashnut from above and say - let's not twist this to mean something it doesn't mean

It's an S&P related topic that seems to generally be about how the mindset and habitual use of some gov programs puts folks in a way of thinking that's certainly handicapping their vision to be informed from an S&P view. If North Texas Guy wants to say in this case, he has an opinion on the one true solution, then why can't he?
Sheesh. Nobody mentioned any of those other religions in a negative way til YOU did.


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

Kentucky has been discussing drug testing of folks on food stamps, yet when you look at where the legislation is going, folks would have forewarned knowledge of their test coming up, if tested positive, they would continue to get food stamps if they went into the drug rehab program paid by the state of course. As I look at it, it just means more scheming and more money spent to accomplish the same thing.


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## NorthTexasGuy (Sep 8, 2008)

thesedays said:


> Regarding the people who were buying beer, cigarettes, etc. with their "food stamp" cards: Some states are putting child support payments on a prepaid debit card. Now, I don't think people should be using child support for that either (and I can think of several parents who stopped paying for this reason - that the money wasn't being used for the kids) but yeah, those cards can be used any place that takes a debit card.
> 
> I've been on unemployment in recent months, and my money was on such a card too. It looks just like a VISA card.


My previous post stated that the beer and cigarettes were on a separate transaction meaning they paid with their own money for those things and fs bought the rest. I admit I haven't had direct experience with fs in 20 yrs. Heck back then it was actual stamps. The cards have at least stopped the trading of stamps for cash. Yet I am equally sure about the resourcefulness of people and bet another way is discovered to cheat the system. 

I realize how intolerant it sounds to say everyone is bad - I include myself btw. The Bible is full of text about the wickedness of man.


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## Guest (May 8, 2011)

wagvan said:


> Timfromohio had the right idea, get it down to the local level where you know the person that the help is coming from and going to. I would bet that at the local level, people would make sure that kids did not go hungry but kept scoflaw parents from milking the system. They also would be willing to go above and beyond to help those who had hit hard times or were trying very hard to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.


This is *exactly* why me and my mother do it the way we are doing it.

Instead of taking food to the food bank, we are able to pick and choose which people and families to help. 

Sometimes we get a scammer, but we're able to figure that out real quick, since we are working one on one with people.

Sometimes we also get someone who gives a sob story but isn't really trying to help theirselves when they definitely have the means and ability to. We figure that out real quick, too.

As soon as we detect someone doesn't really need the help, we can and do drop them like a hot potato.

We are able to concentrate on those who really do need assistance.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I was raised by a mother who spent her welfare check to party. I was young and cann't tell you if it was drugs or alcohol or both.
Since she didn't use it for it's intended use, what was the difference to me and my four brothers if she got the check or not.
There was little to no food in the house, and we were continually evicted from the rental homes we lived in. The comodities she received were used the best we children could, and the rest were given to my uncle to feed hogs with. If some one had taught us to cook the corn meal, us kids would have used it. 
I am sorry, but I would have loved for my mother to be drug tested.

I am sure my upbringing is what caused me to be so interested in prepping, and why I donate to the food bank.


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## joyfulheart (Mar 26, 2009)

SquashNut said:


> alot of us on here are self taught.



Yep!
Not to drift the thread, but I had my first mashed potato (that wasn't from a box) at age 18.

I taught myself to cook, do canning, everything!

My mother was never taught, and neither was I.

I have a friend who is 42 years old, with 2 teenage boys and I taught her how to make her first "homecooked" whole roasted chicken. 

Then she called me the next day and said she was going to throw away the leftovers because nothing in her cookbooks mentioned leftover chicken. (they all say to cook from raw chicken)...


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## wagvan (Jan 29, 2011)

SquashNut said:


> I was raised by a mother who spent her welfare check to party. I was young and cann't tell you if it was drugs or alcohol or both.
> Since she didn't use it for it's intended use, what was the difference to me and my four brothers if she got the check or not.
> There was little to no food in the house, and we were continually evicted from the rental homes we lived in. The comodities she received were used the best we children could, and the rest were given to my uncle to feed hogs with. If some one had taught us to cook the corn meal, us kids would have used it.
> I am sorry, but I would have loved for my mother to be drug tested.
> ...


I am sorry your mom did that. I am glad to hear your experience and a different POV. My hope would be in that case that at lease some of the FS maney filtered down to the kids as food. I think that you and I agree the thing is to see that no kids go hungry.:kiss:


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## Guest (May 8, 2011)

SquashNut said:


> I was raised by a mother who spent her welfare check to party. I was young and cann't tell you if it was drugs or alcohol or both.
> Since she didn't use it for it's intended use, what was the difference to me and my four brothers if she got the check or not.
> There was little to no food in the house, and we were continually evicted from the rental homes we lived in. The comodities she received were used the best we children could, and the rest were given to my uncle to feed hogs with. If some one had taught us to cook the corn meal, us kids would have used it.
> I am sorry, but I would have loved for my mother to be drug tested.


There have been cases like that where I've had near neighbors who used their welfare for drugs and alcohol and let the kids go hungry. Those are the cases where I've let the kids come over and I feed them. 

I don't take food to the families because (1). I don't want to feed the parents, and (2). As often as not, the parents eat the food and let the children go hungry. So I feed the kids at MY house.

The parents don't care. They don't watch their kids or know where they are half the time anyhow. So it's an easy thing to do.

And yes, I have tried turning in these situations to CPS, but nothing ever came of it.

I have had older children "work" for their meal. Like, take out the trash, or sweep the kitchen, or some such. I don't want to train children to be lazy and learn the entitlement attitude of their parents.

I have been able to follow the progress of two of these children. Both of them got away from their parents as soon as they got old enough, got jobs, and became productive citizens.

The other children I helped that way, I never knew what became of them. I hope they turned out ok.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Hoping the food gets to the kids is useless. There needs to be some hands on supervision to make sure the kids get to eat.
That they are raised by responsible adults. Or we just raise another generation of dependent drug users.


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

Ernie said:


> About 13 years ago my wife and I were on WIC, so I can relate to your situation. I don't think we were on it long, but mostly because we hated the grade of food that it allowed. We didn't particularly need it at the time but because we qualified for it we were convinced we ought to apply for it.


Milk, non-sugary cereals such as Wheaties and oatmeal, juice, peanut butter, dried beans, cheese, eggs, whole grain breads, fresh, canned or frozen fruits and vegetables. :shrug:


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

ne prairiemama said:


> Good point. The public schools are too busy teaching gay history to worry about practical skills...


Weird, my kids missed out on that somehow. 

Schools have always taught history so, whether or not you approve of the content, it hasn't replaced home ec. If you must get your dig in, at least do it without making things up.



ne prairiemama said:


> I wish i was taught this stuff from a young age so I didn't have to learn NOW. I'm learning though and my kids are learning too so at least they will have the tools to feed themselves ect. better  They think its fun and I have to admit I am enjoying it too.


You don't feel your parents had any responsibility to teach you life skills? Cooking, gardening etc.....shouldn't that start at home?


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

JanS said:


> Milk, non-sugary cereals such as Wheaties and oatmeal, juice, peanut butter, dried beans, cheese, eggs, whole grain breads, fresh, canned or frozen fruits and vegetables. :shrug:


yes, where I shop there is little signs near all the items that are allowed for wic.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

Hats off to all of you actually trying to help people on a personal level. 

Here is an interesting and related article. What is fascinating (in a morbid way) is how people make their decisions. While the cases profiled are not in this country, people are people and probably make the same kinds of decisions the world over. I'd like to think if I were hungry and my kids had no future I'd not squander my money on electronic nonsense:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...ge=full&sms_ss=email&at_xt=4dc130dbbe5f962d,0


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

The legislation in MO is that if the person who tests positive for drugs has children then a third party will handle their case and get the children the food but make sure the abuser doesn't get it. I have no idea how they intend to do it but that is what the law will be.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

JanS said:


> Milk, non-sugary cereals such as Wheaties and oatmeal, juice, peanut butter, dried beans, cheese, eggs, whole grain breads, fresh, canned or frozen fruits and vegetables. :shrug:



The bread, fruits and veggies are all a new thing at least here so if Ernie's family got it 13 years ago _it wasn't the same as it is now_. NOW theres whole grain stuff thats all new they improved the program! There is some good stuff on there now. No canned,jarred,frozen or dry fruit or veggies though those are not allowed fyi 
(at least not here maybe somewhere else??). 


http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/benefitsandservices/foodpkg.HTM
_New food packages are now being provided to WIC participants in all States. On December 6, 2007, an interim rule revising the WIC food packages was published in the Federal Register. The new food packages align with the 2005 Dietary Guidelines for Americans and infant feeding practice guidelines of the American Academy of Pediatrics. The food packages better promote and support the establishment of successful, long-term breastfeeding, provide WIC participants with a wider variety of foods including fruits and vegetables and whole grains, and provide WIC State agencies greater flexibility in prescribing food packages to accommodate the cultural food preferences of WIC participants. An interim rule allows the Food and Nutrition Service to obtain feedback on the revisions while allowing implementation to move forward. The interim rule comment period ended on February 1, 2010. FNS is currently reviewing and analyzing comments and expects to promulgate a final rule in 2011._


Oh ok well they are PLANNING to make it a law to teach gay history. My mistake. Not made up though. My kids are schooled at home but I wasn't and in the public schools here home ec is nothing like it was when my MIL was going....
Here's the gay history article:
http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local...alifornia-Schools/93mjRW9T70W-KLACaR56dA.cspx

And...I didn't mean the school should have taught me life skills my but I pretty much raised myself so I didn't have someone there to teach me those things. I meant NO ONE taught me. I missed out. Thats life for some. At least I'm not happy to just stay ignorant about those skills and I'm teaching my children so they won't be in the same boat I was.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Maybe I already mentioned it in this thread, but when I worked at the food pantry, most of the clients were senior citizens. That really surprised me; I had guessed it would mostly be women with kids whose husbands had just walked out on them. There WAS some of that, but not as much as I expected, and most of the single moms I encountered were recently widowed and/or had their first child before they were 18 years old. I was also surprised at the number of single fathers, and their story was always the same: Ex-wife wasn't paying child support, and the collection agency was dragging their feet because he was a man. :flame: Last I checked, it costs the same to raise kids regardless of who's doing it.

Most of the people who went there were only in need of short term assistance, and for people who needed more help, we referred them to the proper agencies.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

thesedays said:


> Maybe I already mentioned it in this thread, but when I worked at the food pantry, most of the clients were senior citizens.


Most of the clients at the local pantry I donate to are seniors as well. They sure are happy to see you coming w/ fresh produce and eggs.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I want food stamps. How do I get them?


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

Sarah-I'm confused, did you say that you can't get fruits and veggies on WIC? I was on it last year and we got a voucher for $6 worth of frozen, fresh veggies and fruits. It excluded white potatoes and some other stuff but you could get some. It was a game to see how much I could get for $6. Maybe it's different in Mo than in NE though. Or did you just mean you can't get canned and dried? It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet lol


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## Guest (May 9, 2011)

More WIC info. This gives each state's food list so you can see the differences in each state.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/Contacts/stateagencyfoodlists.htm


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

ne prairiemama said:


> The bread, fruits and veggies are all a new thing at least here so if Ernie's family got it 13 years ago _it wasn't the same as it is now_. NOW theres whole grain stuff thats all new they improved the program! There is some good stuff on there now. No canned,jarred,frozen or dry fruit or veggies though those are not allowed fyi
> (at least not here maybe somewhere else??).


Perhaps it's different in each state. Canned and frozen fruits and veggies are approved in my state. http://www.pawic.com/foodlist-en.pdf I was on WIC more than 13 years ago and it's true that fruits and veggies weren't included (although juice was). Whole grain cereals have always been among the choices. That was one of the complaints I heard around the WIC offices....parents wanted to be able to buy the junk cereals their kids preferred. I can't imagine anyone having a problem health-wise with the old guidelines of non-sugar cereals, milk, cheese, eggs, juice, beans, peanut butter. It was never intended to provide ALL nutrition but these basics are a good start IMO.




ne prairiemama said:


> Oh ok well they are PLANNING to make it a law to teach gay history.


I don't see why they shouldn't.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

wagvan said:


> I realize that, but was trying to point out that while we rant about people on foodstamps, that majority are children who are in that position through no fault of their own.


Perhaps it is different where you live, but around here those "mothers", and I use the term very loosely, do not use the money to buy food for their children. They get more money per child, so they pop them out for financial reasons, and then neglect them. 

If it is FS money, they will buy beef jerkey and energy drinks, if it is welfare money they buy lottery tickets and take the cash out for going the bars. Then, while they are out getting wasted, the kids come back in and steal, and the cops have to be called to take the kid home.

I am not making this up.

Many of these people also have wads of cash and drive Escalades. Not all, but enough to make your point of handling it locally very, very valid. And they are all able bodied, to the last one!!!!!!!

Worst part about all of it is that the people I am describing, they are all SO hateful and beligerant, adults and the children. It is the federal program that is actively destroying lives. Yes, these people have choices, and if that program was not there at all some of them would choose to be productive. But most of these types are lazy, or crooks, or both, and would continue to be so even if the federal programs were terminated. They would just stop being subsidized by you and me.



Clearly, there are people who are good people and who really need it, trying to do the right thing. But I certainly think they are the minority.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

the schools should be teaching the 3 R's. not gay history.


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## Guest (May 9, 2011)

earthkitty said:


> Perhaps it is different where you live, but around here those "mothers", and I use the term very loosely, do not use the money to buy food for their children. They get more money per child, so they pop them out for financial reasons, and then neglect them.
> 
> If it is FS money, they will buy beef jerkey and energy drinks, if it is welfare money they buy lottery tickets and take the cash out for going the bars. Then, while they are out getting wasted, the kids come back in and steal, and the cops have to be called to take the kid home.
> 
> ...


 *I* know you're not making it up. I've seen it over and over and over again.



earthkitty said:


> Clearly, there are people who are good people and who really need it, trying to do the right thing. But I certainly think they are the minority.


True, not EVERYBODY on welfare is abusing the system. There are people out there who are truly needy and really do deserve to get some help.


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## Guest (May 9, 2011)

All I ever buy anymore is flour, coffee, that's about it. Couple bags of sugar during canning season. I wouldn't mind buying cheese once in a while, but I always catch a sale and buy about 10 pounds at a time. However, when I do go to the store, I see people with entire shopping carts full of junk, and they all use the food stamp card. You just never see anybody buying $150 of drinks, candy, chips and ice cream with cash.


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

SquashNut said:


> the schools should be teaching the 3 R's. not gay history.


But seeing as they do require history, it should be the history of all Americans. Not just the old white folks I learned about in the '70s.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

ladycat said:


> *I* know you're not making it up. I've seen it over and over and over again.


I saw a funny bit that Chris Rock did years ago, one of the lines was,

"If all your kid can say by the time it's three years old is, 'Mama be back', then there's a problem."


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## JanS (Jul 28, 2002)

zong said:


> All I ever buy anymore is flour, coffee, that's about it. Couple bags of sugar during canning season. I wouldn't mind buying cheese once in a while, but I always catch a sale and buy about 10 pounds at a time. However, when I do go to the store, I see people with entire shopping carts full of junk, and they all use the food stamp card. You just never see anybody buying $150 of drinks, candy, chips and ice cream with cash.


I honestly think a lot of people who post on these types of threads (not directing this at you) make things up. Or if not making it up, they are reading this info somewhere and they are all reading at the same places. It is ALWAYS beef jerky and energy drinks and they ALWAYS drive Escalades. 

My personal experience is that most people these days have carts full of junk. Stores I visit in a better area, people have more nice fresh fruits and vegetables, but their carts are also rounded out with pre-packaged junk. They might have the more expensive individual cups of mac & cheese instead of the .50 box, but they are not buying pasta, cheese and milk and making it themselves. They often have a separate cart for cases of pop and bottled water.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

JanS said:


> But seeing as they do require history, it should be the history of all Americans. Not just the old white folks I learned about in the '70s.


Oh please. Did they teach you, "This white man, who had sex with only women, did this and this and this."

History is history. This thing happened. It should never be this thing happened, and it was a man who preferred sex with other men, a mistreated undocumented worker whose grandparents were slaves who came to America back when hateful Europeans wanted to spoil the land and steal it from the super godly native americans.

Give me a break.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

JanS said:


> I honestly think a lot of people who post on these types of threads (not directing this at you) make things up. Or if not making it up, they are reading this info somewhere and they are all reading at the same places. It is ALWAYS beef jerky and energy drinks and they ALWAYS drive Escalades.


Sugar, my nephew, who lives with us, works in a convenience store. These are first hand accounts of how people behave. A couple of the people your kind like to stick up for actually stabbed each other in the store two weeks back. It is not something I sit on my high horse and read on some website.

Bless your heart.


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

I've seen both sides of the coin, people abusing food stamps to the 9th degree (selling them, trading them) and I've seen people who should have been on food stamps but viewed them as a mortal sin while their children starved. I have some relatives that go to church every Sunday, conservative, and had 6 kids. The wife didn't believe in working outside the home, trouble was she didn't do much work inside the home either. The husband was lazy and basically survived by taking handouts from the church/others. Meanwhile the kids were literally starving, she would spank them when they complained they were hungry, plus she had a horse too. There were a few times my Mom would look in her fridge and see absolutely nothing but a jar of goats milk. My cousins would talk about how they were hungry. Once they stayed at my parents house, ate a bunch of fruit my Mom and Aunt had bought. They begged me not to tell their mother that they ate the fruit otherwise they would get beat. 

I guess my Aunt and Uncle can be proud of the fact they never were on FS. They were such good church going conservative Christians  To those of you on the forum that receive stamps, don't beat yourself up over it. People on this forum and elsewhere can decry food stamps all they want but they aren't feeding your kids and they aren't living your life. Working to get off of the stamps is a laudable goal but I don't believe in letting children starve because of someone's pride might get hurt.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

I think the point being strayed away from here is the number of FS users nationwide, which was the original post topic.
What does that have to do with S&P? Well, I'll quote myself from page 2



partndn said:


> It's an S&P related topic that seems to generally be about how the mindset and habitual use of some gov programs puts folks in a way of thinking that's certainly handicapping their vision to be informed from an S&P view.


The fed gov is too big to oversee or manage such programs, that were created and intended for _temporary use for deserving people._ From an S&P standpoint, it creates more folks who are, and will be raised with a mentality that is ignorant to any tools for survival - in good economy or in bad. If folks are trained to live in a world of "someone will supply me, so why should I bother learning how to supply myself" then we won't move in a good direction.
It's similar to those of us who understand a prepping mindset, trying to do our thing, while having friends and family who think we're nuts (or would if we told them). You can't walk up to them and just say here's how you do this and why. It takes a long time, and sometimes a lot of folks learning the hard way, that there are other ways to live.

On that note, learning the hard way might mean that one day the gov shuts down these aid things abruptly, and we get some instant zombie dudes/dudettes breaking in to our preps, etc. cause they don't know what to do. Alternatively, there are posters here who clearly are or have been recipients of FS, etc. and have decided to learn another way to supply themselves and eventually decline the gov programs.

There will always be lazy people. And there will always be innovative people striving to be independent. And there will be those in between. Each can come from various backgrounds and upbringings. Main point is.. the programs and *how they are run* contribute to the lazy ones choosing to remain so.


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## Guest (May 9, 2011)

JanS said:


> I honestly think a lot of people who post on these types of threads (not directing this at you) make things up. Or if not making it up, they are reading this info somewhere and they are all reading at the same places. It is ALWAYS beef jerky and energy drinks and they ALWAYS drive Escalades.


In my experience, most welfare abusers do not drive nice cars (but some do).

The majority I've known drive old clunkers they can barely keep running. Something will come up, they need money, and they will sell it for practically nothing. Then they'll scrabble like crazy for transportation until they can get hold of another old clunker, and the cycle continues.

As for what people on food stamps buy, no, they don't all buy junk. Many of them are frugal and cook.

But in the slums, where there are so MANY welfare abusers, it's a different story. Read my post here under "*2nd:* on the subject of using food stamps healthfully".
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=4682410#post4682410

That post was in reference to inner city areas that even have a grocery store at all. Many do not because nobody can keep a grocery store open due to extremely high rates of shoplifting, frequent robberies, and vandalism. Welfare neighborhoods with or without a grocery store do have many bars and liquor stores.

In keeping with S&EP, I don't think we have much to worry about in a disaster where food supply is disrupted, provided we don't live close to such a neighborhood. Those people will riot and burn their neighboorhood down, and their rioting may spill over into adjoining neighborhoods, but I doubt they will descend on the rural areas looking for food.


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## ne prairiemama (Jan 30, 2010)

whiskeylivewire said:


> Sarah-I'm confused, did you say that you can't get fruits and veggies on WIC? I was on it last year and we got a voucher for $6 worth of frozen, fresh veggies and fruits. It excluded white potatoes and some other stuff but you could get some. It was a game to see how much I could get for $6. Maybe it's different in Mo than in NE though. Or did you just mean you can't get canned and dried? It's early, I haven't had my coffee yet lol


No canned and dried or frozen here in Nebraska. We can get fresh! :goodjob:


I agree with squashnut about the 3 rs. History is History. It shouldn't be gay history/bi history/straight history ect. If someone does something important enough to be included in History then great put them in but not on the basis of who they like to diddle around with :smack . 

zong I worked at walmart in the checkout last year and pretty much everyone bought junk. FS or no FS. LOTS of prepackaged instant type food. 

partndn you are right the way he things are promotes laziness. They make it harder for one to get off the program than to stay on it. 

PhilJohnson, thank you.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

ladycat - honest question here - is the reason you do not find grocery stores in slum areas b/c of crime or b/c of lack of demand? I always assumed the latter, as liquor and convenience stores seemed plentiful. Again, honest question.

This is a really tough issue, b/c as some others pointed out many of those who suffer (and the fraction is debatable, but doesn't matter) are kids who have no choice in the matter. They didn't ask to be put in the situation they are stuck in and will likely emulate what they see later in life so the cycle continues.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

If you are on food stamps and choose to let your kid have free breakfast and lunches them in some situations your food stamp allotment should be lowered.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

ladycat said:


> In my experience, most welfare abusers do not drive nice cars (but some do).
> 
> The majority I've known drive old clunkers they can barely keep running. Something will come up, they need money, and they will sell it for practically nothing. Then they'll scrabble like crazy for transportation until they can get hold of another old clunker, and the cycle continues.


 I should clarify. Only the drug dealers and pimps who have undeclared income drive nice cars and walk around with wads of cash, all the while using "their money" on "their card". The rest drive junk.




> As for what people on food stamps buy, no, they don't all buy junk. Many of them are frugal and cook.
> 
> But in the slums, where there are so MANY welfare abusers, it's a different story. Read my post here under "*2nd:* on the subject of using food stamps healthfully".
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=4682410#post4682410
> ...


Yep. I'm not discussing those who go into the grocery store trying to stretch a dollar to buy enough to feed their family. I am talking about those who do their "grocery" shopping in convenience stores. The convenience store in question is a very big regional chain, like a mini-grocery, and their prices are insanely inflated. They do that because more than half of their business is to FS/welfare/vision card holders who don't give a darn how much something costs, cause they card'll just get loaded up agin next month, mmmmmHmmmmm.



> In keeping with S&EP, I don't think we have much to worry about in a disaster where food supply is disrupted, provided we don't live close to such a neighborhood. Those people will riot and burn their neighboorhood down, and their rioting may spill over into adjoining neighborhoods, but I doubt they will descend on the rural areas looking for food.


That was my motivating factor in buying a farm in the country, keeping my family safe and fed when the zombies don't get their money.


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## Guest (May 9, 2011)

timfromohio said:


> ladycat - honest question here - is the reason you do not find grocery stores in slum areas b/c of crime or b/c of lack of demand?


Definitely crime. Grocery stores DO open periodically in slums, but they seldom last long because they are unprofitable due to the crime.

If you'll notice, the liquor stores and convenience stores in the inner cities are barred on the outside, and every kind of crime prevention measure implemented on the inside, making them as secure as possible. Grocery stores can't take the same sorts of measures due to their nature.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

The extreme markup of food in those convenience stores likely has a lot to do with the difficulty of doing business in that area.


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## Guest (May 9, 2011)

Cyngbaeld said:


> The extreme markup of food in those convenience stores likely has a lot to do with the difficulty of doing business in that area.


I'm sure it does!


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

timfromohio said:


> This is a really tough issue, b/c as some others pointed out many of those who suffer (and the fraction is debatable, but doesn't matter) are kids who have no choice in the matter. They didn't ask to be put in the situation they are stuck in and will likely emulate what they see later in life so the cycle continues.


If we consider that decent people on food stamps are not the issue, then necessarily we are discussing the crappy people.

By their very nature it doesn't matter how much you give them...they will spend little if any on their kids. Only kids of decent people, no matter the income bracket, will be taken care of by the parents. 

Good parents will do what it takes to take care of their children. There are of course bad wealthy parents too, but since the subject at hand is food stamps, then we won't discuss neglected children in general.

The catch 22 here is crappy parents receive more money in FS and welfare for each kid they have, so they are given incentive by the government to have more children who will not be taken care of. And yes, a lot of the kids who grow up in that environment will behave the same way as adults. Not all, as some have already pointed out, but enough will and that is why we have entire communities falling apart, generation after generation. The government has stepped in as care giver, and it fails miserably. Government perpetuates the number of neglected children.

The only way to make sure that most kids are taken care of is to remove the incentive for bad people to bring children into the world, children they see as a burden.

The answer is to make any benefits local, if we agree that there should be any benefits at all handled by government, to which I say no, but that is a different subject.


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

I'd be interested in finding out the average duration of people on food stamps or food assistance. 

Regarding handling such benefits locally, like I said before - it's probably a whole lot harder to look somebody in the eye and ask for assistance that is to come from what they have worked for than to wait for a check to show up, especially if that need is not genuine. 

I've often thought that churches should have gardening, food preservation, and homecooking programs. I wonder if folks would participate? I suspect a good fraction would, but many would scoff at the idea of working in the garden.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I think the best way to get food into hungry children, that druggy parents can't take for themselves, is to serve a great big healthy lunch at the schools. And I mean good food, not fries and chicken nuggets.

That would have the additional benefit of getting those children into school, at least until lunch time. Any education at all increases their chances of getting off welfare. Half a day is better than nothing. Maybe a breakfast bar and milk and fruit when they arrive in the morning, and a balanced lunch and no food stamps for mama.

I've seen some really bad welfare fraud. A couple arriving in separate Cadillac Escalades, claiming $60,000 a year in income and on HUD housing. Another on HUD housing who owned _THREE_ horses and took in additional horses for rescue.

I've also seen working mothers whose kids were not getting a balanced diet, because daddy refused to pay child support and her salary went mostly to gas to get to work and child care, so she could go to work. I wouldn't mind seeing those people get a hundred or so in aid to buy milk or meat for the kids.

I'd sure like to see the government start prosecuting fraud. If there was the possibility of some jail time, it would cut down on the fraud. Right now, there are no consequences. Free money and no downside.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

timfromohio said:


> I've often thought that churches should have gardening, food preservation, and homecooking programs.


I think that is a wonderful idea. Many mega churches pay big bucks for landscaping. Wouldn't it be better to have a huge community garden?


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## FoxyWench (Jan 22, 2010)

im one of those horrible lazy people suckling off the govt teet of food stamps...

i was a very hard worker, worked fulltime since i was 13, and then i had a sever head injury that almost killed me and has left me disabled...
i now work when i can (i suffer from seizures) doing whatever i can to make ends meet as much as possible...i make $650 a month...
of that i pay $250 a month to my parents for rent, i do drive a "nice" car but only because my car was dying quickly and it was the cheapest used car on the lot and the guy gave me a fantastic deal (i got it for $500 cash after my trade in) but its a convertable and looks "fancy" so people assume im 'milking the system"

i get $100 a month in food stamps, being its just me its not too bad to live on BUT i can say when you try to do the healthier options you can run short quickly ( a gallon of milk is $4 a gallon here for store brand, and a head of leaft lettuce will set you back almost $3 (and thats NOT organic) so my general "method" involved bulk, sales and "cheapies" i buy my meat in the big packs as often as i can, i always look for the sale meats and coupons (for stuff thats on the verge of being unsellable) are always handy...these get broken down into servings and frozen...because i had gastric bypass my diet is primarily protein so i end up spending $30-$40 a month on meats which i tend to do in 1 shop once a month
then i get alot of canned goods from aldi, i do a canned goods shop once a month and spend about $20 there. whats left i try to divide between cheap but good fresh stuff, (milk, veggies, fruit if possible though thats the lowest on the list), ended up being $10 a week for "fresh foods"

this year i have lowered that amount and actually spent a couple of those dollars on vegie plants and seeds.

i dont buy pre-prepped stuff i cook everything from scratch and i try to buy everything in bulk...

i dont have fancy things, i buy everything i own on sale or used,
i have special arrangments with my vet, and barter alot...

and i know alot of people in similar water right now...for different reasons of course, but simililar tides...

so it realy buggs me when people say "most" people reciving soe form of welfare are lazy blah blah blah...
instead, SOME people are lazy, SOME people are milking it for all its worth...YES there are fakers...
i got behind someone at walmart the other day who pulled out her stamps card to buy $100 in easter candy and soda! i mean realy...we all need the odd treat here and there, but that money is for FOOD...

i do agree that welfare fraud is a problem...i have a hute personal issue with people sitting at home doing drugs, smoking with all the cable channels and a fancy car, poping out kid after kid while taxpayers cover it...
i think things like mandetory drug testing and birth control, shoudl be potential rules for welfare recipients...

but honestly as someone who does recive extra assistance i dont know how they get away with it, once a year i have to send bank statments and proof of income, and proof of rent and this and that and the other thing just to keep my benefits...they want to know how much your house is worth if you own, how much your car is worth ect...i just dont know HOW they get away with it, especially consdering i had a hard time qualifying for the bennies i do get with a legitimate reason...
my worker actually said to me "did you ever consider getting pregnant? it makes the process alot easier..."

i just about fell out of my chair...


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

SquashNut said:


> I was raised by a mother who spent her welfare check to party. I was young and cann't tell you if it was drugs or alcohol or both.
> 
> I am sorry, but I would have loved for my mother to be drug tested.


I'm so sorry you had such a rough life. It wasn't right, and it wasn't fair. No child should have to live like that. 
Honestly though, being poor is not always the exact same as being abusive or neglectful of your family. There are many, many poor people in this world who do not abuse drugs and alcohol. You can't judge a whole socio-economic group of people by your mom and how she behaved.


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## whiskeylivewire (May 27, 2009)

Foxywench-I have been on them before and I was villified on a board(not this one) for it. We have since picked ourselves up and I got irritated by people thinking I must be lazy, drive a nice car and popped out kids just to be taken care of. It's always the bad ones that make headlines and make it harder for the people who seriously need it.

I would LOVE for churches or communities to run classes about canning, gardening etc. There is an organization in my town that gives classes on couponing and money management.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

timfromohio said:


> ladycat - honest question here - is the reason you do not find grocery stores in slum areas b/c of crime or b/c of lack of demand? I always assumed the latter, as liquor and convenience stores seemed plentiful. Again, honest question.
> 
> This is a really tough issue, b/c as some others pointed out many of those who suffer (and the fraction is debatable, but doesn't matter) are kids who have no choice in the matter. They didn't ask to be put in the situation they are stuck in and will likely emulate what they see later in life so the cycle continues.


Some people have tried to open grocery stores in underserved areas, and they couldn't keep them open for a lot of reasons. One was because it was almost impossible to find people to work there, even though in some of those areas, unemployment approached 100%, and if they did, there was so much shoplifting and vandalism, the stores couldn't meet their basic expenses. :grumble:


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

SquashNut said:


> If you are on food stamps and choose to let your kid have free breakfast and lunches them in some situations your food stamp allotment should be lowered.


I disagree- some parents do not use their foodstamps to purchase food for their kids... at least with free breakfast and lunches- the parents can't buy crap food, not saying school food is not crapola- but at least they are getting 2 meals....ones that the parents can not take away...


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## Guest (May 10, 2011)

Becka03 said:


> I disagree- some parents do not use their foodstamps to purchase food for their kids... at least with free breakfast and lunches- the parents can't buy crap food, not saying school food is not crapola- but at least they are getting 2 meals....ones that the parents can not take away...


An example of one of the families I've known who didn't feed their kids: one neighbor I had sold their food stamps for beer and pot, and let the kids go hungry. (That was when the food stamps were paper, and schools weren't serving breakfast). On school days, the kids got one meal a day- free lunch at school. On the days there was no school, the kids got cheap store brand macaroni and cheese.

I sat in their living room one day listening to the father of the family *complain* that he had to feed the kids in the summer time when there was no school lunch for them (we're still talking cheap mac & cheese).

This is one of those cases where I started feeding the kids.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

mekasmom said:


> I'm so sorry you had such a rough life. It wasn't right, and it wasn't fair. No child should have to live like that.
> Honestly though, being poor is not always the exact same as being abusive or neglectful of your family. There are many, many poor people in this world who do not abuse drugs and alcohol. You can't judge a whole socio-economic group of people by your mom and how she behaved.


Can you think of any other way to figure out which family has a problem and which one doesn't? I agree a family that does care for their kids shouldn't be intruded on by drug testing. But some where along the line those parents that do abuse drugs need to be weeded out. And not just because they are wasting their food stamps.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

SquashNut said:


> Can you think of any other way to figure out which family has a problem and which one doesn't? I agree a family that does care for their kids shouldn't be intruded on by drug testing. But some where along the line those parents that do abuse drugs need to be weeded out. And not just because they are wasting their food stamps.


I don't think that every family should be drug tested. However, it woldn't be that difficult to have a computer program in a Social Service office that cross-references police arrests with those addresses of the people on welfare/foodstamps/etc... When there is an address match, that particular family would be required to be drug tested and inspected. 

Much of the welfare fraud involves extra folks living in the household and this would be one way to weed out the ones who are violating the rules. If a child's father isn't on the Section 8 lease and he lists that address as his home, then the mom is likely committing fraud by not declaring his presence in the home. If he is arrested for dealing drugs, then a drug test might reveal that mom is using, too.

If mom is found to be using drugs, then Child Protective can step in and inspect the household. No food in the house or unsanitary conditions means that the child is removed. I guess that the household wouldn't be eligible for aid since dad is in jail for dealing drugs, mom is in jail for endangering the welfare of a minor/child abuse and the child is no longer in the home.


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## Guest (May 10, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> I don't think that every family should be drug tested. However, it woldn't be that difficult to have a computer program in a Social Service office that cross-references police arrests with those addresses of the people on welfare/foodstamps/etc... When there is an address match, that particular family would be required to be drug tested and inspected.
> 
> Much of the welfare fraud involves extra folks living in the household and this would be one way to weed out the ones who are violating the rules. If a child's father isn't on the Section 8 lease and he lists that address as his home, then the mom is likely committing fraud by not declaring his presence in the home. If he is arrested for dealing drugs, then a drug test might reveal that mom is using, too.
> 
> If mom is found to be using drugs, then Child Protective can step in and inspect the household. No food in the house or unsanitary conditions means that the child is removed. I guess that the household wouldn't be eligible for aid since dad is in jail for dealing drugs, mom is in jail for endangering the welfare of a minor/child abuse and the child is no longer in the home.


That sounds pretty reasonable.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

What gets me is the ones not using drugs get defensive whe we discuss this topic. We are not talking about them, in any way shape or form.
In fact we appreciate those who are not raising their kids to be the countries future drugies. And while it does make things difficult for those that have to pay higher taxes to provide for all the food stamp users. At least we hope those kids of good mothers won't be on them, because they had some one that cared. Don't the kids with bad parents deserve the same thing?


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## timfromohio (Jun 19, 2007)

mekasmom said:


> I think that is a wonderful idea. Many mega churches pay big bucks for landscaping. Wouldn't it be better to have a huge community garden?


Good point with the mega churches. I'd bet the money spent on seasonal landscaping would be enough for a decent tractor, implements, and supplies to get started. Of course we get back to the problem of folks actually having to get out there and doing a bit of work! But what a way to help meet some basic needs - forget the program driven mentality of the modern megachurch and help feed some people. Do I hear an "amen"?


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## Guest (May 10, 2011)

SquashNut said:


> What gets me is the ones not using drugs get defensive whe we discuss this topic. We are not talking about them, in any way shape or form.


I don't understand that either. It happens in every topic anywhere here at HT that touches on welfare.

I think it's wonderful for people who need the welfare benefits they're receiving, have that safety net in a time of need. Most of those people just need a hand up; they're not trying to get a hand out.

I'm pretty durn sure that 99.99% of the welfare recipients hanging out at a frugal, self-sufficiency-oriented forum like HT are not abusing the system. If they were, they wouldn't be hanging out here learning how to grow and preserve their own food and pinch pennies.

I've been off and on food stamps myself, and I've helped other people through the process of obtaining welfare benefits.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

TheMartianChick said:


> If mom is found to be using drugs, then Child Protective can step in and inspect the household.


I don't see that workin because too often, the govco genius employees are the kind of morons who say this:



FoxyWench said:


> my worker actually said to me "did you ever consider getting pregnant? it makes the process alot easier..."
> 
> i just about fell out of my chair...


:shocked:

Unvelievable. The solutions to these things do not lie within the government.


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## earthkitty (Mar 3, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> Social Service
> welfare/foodstamps/etc...
> Section 8 lease
> Child Protective


Good Lord, and we wonder why this country is broke. Maybe if we just had a few more govt programs and employees, we could straighten everyone and everything out. 

All of these programs are federal, and all are rife with abuse, fraud, and negligence.

Charity should be with Red Cross, Salvation Army, churches, local and/or private groups who care where their dollars are going, and who are accountable to those who donate.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

[[[[......has left me disabled... ]]]

And that's what the welfare programs should be for.

I do not want to see senior citizens, the disabled, and babies lying in the gutter and starving to death like you can see in some third world countries.

But, by the way, I think what you are getting is about right. You work enough to have some income, your parents are partially supporting you, and the taxpayers don't owe you a steak every night. You are getting enough so you aren't going to starve.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of cheats who abuse the system. They simply lie and nobody bothers to check. If the government would take a closer look at who is getting a check, they would save the taxpayers a lot of money.

Even worse, the cheats use up the funds so there isn't anything left for those who could really use some help.

If they ever put me in charge, birth control will be mandatory in order to receive any welfare and any baby daddy who has more than 3 kids with three different mothers living on welfare is going to be castrated. Also mandatory cooking and money management courses.


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## Lilbitof4 (Mar 2, 2011)

"forget the program driven mentality of the modern megachurch and help feed some people. Do I hear an "amen"?"

I'll give you one. Actually, this falls very in line with some of the reasons that we left the mega church that we had attended for 8 years.


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## FoxyWench (Jan 22, 2010)

while i do agree that many of us on welfare like programs get defensive its because of the use of terms like "all" and "most"

its never "some" its always "most" and here we are...trying to make it clear that were NOT all like that...

we get defensive because all we hear from many sources, not partiuclarly forum ect just in general is how "all" welfare recipients are lazy, milking it, feel entitled, using the system, dont care about others, blah blah blah...

and i can honetly tell you, most of the time i WISH i needed the extra help because i was simply lazy or simply selfish or felt entitled...

and it is nice to see some know that many out there on "help" are not just lazy leeches, but with the use of "most" welfare recpients..it gets rather frustrating to be grouped with the people abusing the system.

and i know im not the only one who gets agrivated by it, i have a friend whos none visually disabled, she suffers from severe grand mal seizures, along with alot of other ssues going on...has a service dog and is on social and food stamps...
she got accosted at the store by some furious woman who started screaming at her about how she was a faker when she whent to pay in food stamps, how the dog couldnt be in the store and how she was abusing the system...this poor woman also sufferd a mild agoraphobia and for about 6 months after the event it agrivated the condition so much she couldnt even bring herself to leave the house...

its situations liek these, that happen every day, that puts the rest of us in defensive stance about the topic


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

Maybe if it get so some really get tired of hearing it they will find a way to move on and up to some thing better.


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