# Muzzle loader season, zone 3



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yesterday was the start of Muzzle loader season here in Michigan. I have 16 days in Zone 3. I am using my Remington 700ss 50cal, shot it Monday and am happy with the performance, shoots about every thing I push down the bore very well with the right amount of powder.
I am using 80gr. T7 under a green MMP sabot and a Speer 300gr. gold dot bullet.

I saw 2 deer for the whole day sitting in my blind in the woods. Wife called me on the talk abouts and said she was going to get a scrip from Moms doctor for her at 9:00AM. She had seen 11 does in the yard at that time, some in the front yard, some in the side and some in the back yard. I told her I was thinking of using the house for a blind.
I only have a buck tag to use.

 Al


----------



## froebeli (Feb 14, 2012)

I think you should use the house. I have friends with a small rustic cabin in the mountains of VA. They call it their "High class ground blind" since many deer have been shot off the porch after spotting out the kitchen window. 

My son went bow hunting at his coach's house once. He was told to use the kid's tree house not 20 feet off the house, but he insisted on using his climbing stand. All the deer came right under the tree house and none under him...


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

many a time we see more deer from the kitchen window of the house then out hunting , the trick is getting out to shoot them without spooking them

almost all the windows are painted shut or the storms are on for the winter and my aunt wouldn't let us shoot from the house any way , well we have to at least get half way out the door


----------



## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

nothing like waking up to the smell of cordite in the kitchen !


Wade


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

1shotwade said:


> nothing like waking up to the smell of cordite in the kitchen !
> 
> 
> Wade



yeah my wife hates the smell of popping caps before loading up , I try an do it when she isn't around but i normally do it in my basement and not in the kitchen I leave the muzzle loader loaded all season as long as I don't take a shot or go out in the rain , I just remove the cap each time i need to get in the truck

I have a love hate relationship with the primer carrier for my NEF Huntsman 50cal on one hand i can keep 3-4 of them loaded and in the small pocket of my hunting coat and get them out easy with gloves on , I can easily see when it is loaded and it is a snap to remove and place back in pocket with gloves on 
on the other hand it bugs we that my muzzle loader requires plastic carriers that do eventually wear out even if not near as fast as NEF would have you believe

I guess i need to stock up on them before NEF decided they are tired of making them


----------



## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I don't think I've seen them Pete. I had a 58cal huntsman years ago that was a top break with a piston type breech assy. inserted but there was much talk of them firing when you closed the breech. I set mine and anchored it with three 8/32 allens taped and threaded to secure it and never had a problem.
Since I loved shooting 1-66 or 1-72 doing all the things they say can't be done.had cva 1-66,traditions 1-48,cva 1-48,mowery 1-72 all in 50 cal,2 custom 45 cal in 1-72. Now I just take the encore out and poke one.

Wade


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Wasn't as cold feeling yesterday even though the wind chill was worse. It was sunny and bright so maybe the dark brown stain on the blind absorbed some of the suns heat.
Finely seen more deer from the blind than Kare saw from the house. 7 for the day all does. One was laying just across the trail from my afternoon blind when I went out after lunch. She got up and walked down the hill and stood there. Probably one I've been talking to all summer. She finely wandered off so I got in the blind for the afternoon. 

Forgot to mention I leave my ML on the screened in porch till the season is over or I harvest a buck. It uses #11 caps and I use a capper to get the cap in there to the nipple. Have to use a caper on the 54 cal Remington too.
With my fingers I still use a capper on the Hawkins and the plains hunter.


 Al


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

primer carriers 4th item down on the page 
http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/accessories/accessories.asp



below is a quote from muzzle loader magazine they got it just about all right , I don't even think it needs a 100 gr charge , I bought mine when the clearnced out the 24 inch barrel version before going to the 26 inch magnum that can use the 150 gr load but it never needed 150 gr to kill a deer out at a hundred yards , I was putting 90gr 777 under a hornady great plains connical 410 flat nose , it would penetrate a deer 3 1/2 feet length wise I shot one end to end the bullet was under the skin at the far end 

now I cast , but I wish i could find a mold for something very close to that 410gr great plains , hornady discontinued it now they have a 385 gr hollow point , but it never needed the hollow point 

great muzzle loader but the ram rd leaves a lot to be desired


(quote)
NEF HUNTSMAN 
The surprise of this test was the Huntsman from New England Firearms. This .50-caliber muzzleloader didn't have the barrel length to fully utilize the 150-grain charge, but with the 100-grain charge the Huntsman turned in some of the tightest groups in the test. 
Press a button and the action pops open. Drop a customized 209-shotgun primer in and a portion of the primer case's bright orange tab sticks out through a slot, showing that the firearm is loaded. Its factory trigger was set at 3 1/2 pounds, and I found that it didn't have any creep. 
During the test a small amount of fouling escaped through a slot cut for the primer carrier, but it went to the side rather than toward the shooter. The Huntsman had one serious handicap. It was impossible to reload quickly because its short ramrod must be screwed together before it can be used. (978-632-9393; www.hr1871.com)[end quote]


----------



## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Interesting! Thanks Pete!


Wade


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Way back for ever ago I shot with a muzzle loader club. they all got a good ground roll when one of the fellows showed up with a new one that was rated for 150gr. of powder and he couldn't hardly hit paper with it. Once he got his head back in the sun shine and reduced his load he once again could punch holes.
I have 3 50 cals and not a one of them is worth a tinkers --- with over 100gr. of powder. My 54cal Remington goes to pot with over 100gr. it likes it right at 100 no more. 

Gawd it is cold in the deer blinds. Yesterday I took a duraflame can with the wick. I could use it to warm my fingers up. I even had to stick the lighter inside my coat to get it warm ENOUGH TO LIGHT THE DURAFLAME. I did see a bunch of deer at least 10 different ones. They would mill around then go over the hill and about an hour latter some would be back. Could have been the same ones or different ones. 

 Al


----------



## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

I used to shoot a 50 cal 1-66 cva kentucky rifle loaded with 100gr. FFF. Nice hot load and little residue. Cloverleafs @ 100yd., 4-5 "low @200 w/ 3"moa.

Wade


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Only seen 5 does yesterday. Surprised I seen that many the way the wind was blowing. Wind chill was 6F, glad my blind at the time was not near any of the dead ash in the woods as they were coming down I saw.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

10 does in the woods for the day is what I seen. My wife sitting in the house saw 6 in the back yard and 3 in the front yard. My feet where what got the coldest yesterday. It was 18 at 7:00 AM with a wind chill of zero, has got to be the windiest deer seasons I have ever experienced. I went back to my deer hunting journal which I started in 1991 and it has been back to then.


 Al


----------



## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Ally-You should end this today! It's got to be close 'cause I'm 100s of miles south of you and my temp was 10 at midnight and sitting on 8 now. If the bucks don't move in those temp there isn't any bucks LLOL! Stay warm!


Wade


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Our deer are not southern belles when it comes to cold. My wife says they are now experiencing February weather.

I tried to end it yesterday though. Yesterdays story.

*Well I am sure the gods of hunting are laughing their ----- off this morning*. It is a bit warmer than Tuesday but I have decided it doesn't do any thing except make you cold quicker to get in the blind a half hour before legal shooting hours which right now is 7:22 AM to 5:21PM. I finally sat down in the blind at 7:23 this morning after setting my chair in place and unloading the camera, binocs and thermos. I sat the rifle in the corner as normal and started the vigil. Wasn't long and a deer came down the hill from the north east and crossed the creek about at my 60 yard stump marker. It was acting strange for a doe with it's nose going to the ground and trotting and then running a bit. Looked at it with the binocs and couldn't see any horns. About 10 minutes later two more came from that north east area crossed the creek and walked up the hill to the north side of my blind. One of them went under it even. About 8:30 Kare calls me on the radio and said I had not put air in her tire when the low pressure warning went off the other day. I told her I was coming in at 9:45 to do the air for her and walk the dog so she didn't have to. She has a doctors appointment with her mom at 11:00. While she is talking here comes a deer from the south west. The one under my blind left about that time too. So Kare leaves me to look at the deer, there were 3 of them all in a line, went to the creek and walked along it to the east. About the time they got to the creek 2 more came from the north east and they seemed in a hurry to turn and go up in the Russian olive south of me. I was about ready to settle back down again and another lone deer 11th one so far, came from the south west. It was looking like it was tracking one with its nose to the ground a bunch. I look and it is a fork horn. Clear the deck fold and move my chair as it was in the way I felt. Try to open the window and it isn't budging, Well DA Ya got to remove the spike you wedged in there when the wind was blowing it open so far. Now I got the rifle out the window mostly resting the forearm on my hand on the window sill. Snick the safety off and the buck is in some trees near the creek. Finally he steps out and I place the cross hairs on him. squeeze the trigger and nothing., did I remember to let the safety off? Rifle isn't cocked I see so cocked it and placed the cross hairs and again nothing. Did that a total of 4 times. On the 5th try it went boom and the buck jumped and ran about a total of 20 yard's in a very clear area. I grab the CVA quick load, dump the powder in and try to get the sabot and bullet to start. finally it goes so I could ram it home, I still have that buck out there about 70 yards looking around. I now need to put a #11 cap on the nipple. Stupid caps want to turn in the capper and not go on the nipple, I flick 3 on the floor of the blind before I finally get one on. Now the buck is over the hill to the north east and gone. 

I climb down out of the blind and go investigate. Just skid marks where he was standing at the shot. Crossed the creek and left a trail of urine that I could really smell. Up the hill following his tracks in the little bit of snow and over turned leaves and all the way across the woods with him just walking no blood or hair to be seen.

I look at the time and it is 8:50 AM, I don't know what went wrong the caps are CCI Mags and were working great just days before when I was shooting for the practice and make sure it was still on the mark. Never the less I came in and did the chores for Kare. Then I loaded up the 54cal.after I popped a primer. it uses 209's. I am going to take my plains hunter and shoot it tomorrow and make sure it is on the mark incase the trouble is the cold effecting the bolts firing pins even though I don't oil them after that little problem I had with the 308 that cold November so many years ago. Ray (my old gun smith) said I should never oil the bolts on a 700.



The plains rifle is a side lock. I have a little bit of real black but it works with T 7 as long as I remember to thump the stock and get some in the fire channel before setting the sabot and bullet.

 Al


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

did the caps pop when the hammer hit them and still nothing?

you had popped some caps before loading?

do you take it in the house at night?

I am going to take a guess , it has a saftey , but you have to cock it , is this one of the inlines that the hole bolt jumps forward to hit the primer , i think cva calls theirs the buck horn and it uses 209s now but used to use #11

it was so cold this year during gun season that my 12 ga semi auto I would press the bolt release and the bolt would ride forward in slow motion , i had to take it all apart and wipe everything down with a rag of just Hoppies then it worked again

for oil i have started using 50/50 ATF and K1 but i didn't have any with and the the 12ga had been oiled with something else inside I haven't needed to do any more than wipe down the outside in a few years it mostly sits 

last year my cousin had a nice shot at a doe , click and the deer runs off, he pumps the shell out looks at it no dent in the primer , he had oiled with wd-40 after the previous season then let it sit barrel up in the gun cabinet , it had glued the firing pin in the bolt , he put the shell in again and found a stump to shoot this time it went off 

the nazis came up with Ballistall this great lube , cleaning solution and oil all in one and it was water soluble , the russians cleaned their guns with kerosine , well at 20 bellow those Mausers froze shut on the Russian front 

I have a cousin that leaves his gun outside all season, he locks it in his truck at night

I bring mine in at night, but they they get a wipe down after they have fully warmed up because they do condensate when they come in , so days I am in and out the gun stays out 

my muzzle loaders all have hammers and no safeties , and I use real black, but you have me wondering If I should find my muzzle loader an unheated home for the season , but that ended yesterday we are back in rifle till Sunday for a doe only hunt


----------



## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

My guns stay outside for the duration of what ever season it is. It sux to pick up an ice cold gun and carry it around all day but it sux more to have problems like these. I grab my gun out of my truck and in 15 minutes I'm into deer country.If I left it inside the scope would be fogged up and the deer would be safe.In airgunning they say if you think it's lubed right get your rag out and wipe that crap back off of it. If it ain't dry I'll not lube up.If they are it's time to take them apart and do it right,never more than once a year.

Kill out will ya! 


Wade


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

you may also want to look into a capper , these can reach into most any action http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1207/1/CAPPER-P

they really help with the tiny little primers and cold fingers


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Was 4F yesterday morning at 7:00AM yesterday with a wind chill of zero. I had already decided not to go out in the morning as I had to take trash to the road for pickup and they are here by 9:00AM most Thursdays. By 12:30 PM it was up to 21F with a wind chill of 6F.

I leave my guns on the screened in porch during the season which ever type of firearm one it is. They get locked in the unheated honey house when I need to go away for a while. 

I use Remington Dri Lube on my bolts, Way back in the early 70's During a Nov fire arm season in Northern Michigan I had the firing pin on My 700 in 308 freeze up, thought it had broke. Took it to a gun smith I knew at the time and he took it apart and wiped all the WD 40 Off that I had used.

I do use a inline capper for the Remington's, they just didn't want to go on the nipple Brother told me to switch to musket caps as they are bigger and easier to handle.
Any way I shot the T/C plains rifle yesterday. It has a 5.00 yard sale Weaver K 4 scope on it in a T/C quick take off mount. Caps worked fine on the side lock too. Of course they were not sitting on the nipple for 4 days in the cold either.

No we don't have that much snow the picture is from a few Februarys ago.




I'm Seconds from deer country sitting in the house.

Window near the front door.







Just off the screen porch 2012.









 Al


----------



## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

I muzzleload hunt too. Use a more modern inline type. Love the sight and smell when one shoots these guns. I leave the gun loaded, minus the primer cap, on the unheated front screen porch. If you bring an ice cold gun inside, it will be all wet in a matter of minutes and moisture can get inside the barrel and start some corrosion. One can, however, wrap the gun in a large plastic bag and bring it in to warm up.


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Well after taking two days off to do some chores that needed doing and a doctors appointment in the middle of the day. I will be back at it again today. I did pick up a single burner propane back pack stove to use as a heater. I think I can build a stand for it and use a 20 pound tank and hose to fuel it in the future.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Snowed all day long some times so light you had to look at a dark tree trunk to see it falling. The heater worked great at keeping me warm in the 6F wind chill. Windows fogged up for a while but I could wipe the fog off with a paper towel. 
Saw 23 deer for the day. only bucks were button bucks. Had 7 laying down along the creek in the flats about 70 yards out nearly all day. I took pictures of them as the snow piled up on them. Hope they turn out when I up load them.

 Al


----------



## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Enjoyed the thread this morning. Glad you have the new heater.


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yesterday was cold but the wind wasn't strong at all in the morning. Had to quit early and go clean my 82 year old Mother in Laws drive way. Her 35 year old fridge gave up the fight. Lowe's delivered the new one on a Sunday,
Got out again in the afternoon in a strong 15 MPH wind with gust up to 35MPH my weather station recorded and blowing snow. Never saw one deer all afternoon. I didn't really expect to either. If I were a deer I would have laid up some place and let the snow blow over me.
I would get up and go feed in the bright moon light of the night with slower winds. 
Is 8F right now with a wind chill bouncing between zero and 4 below. 
Seven days remaining.

Will stop early today and mount the snow plow on the tractor and clean or drive before lunch I think.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Saw one doe yesterday right after legal shooting time. Was sunny and cold didn't get above 20F all day and the wind chill was right around zero all day. Did quit at 11:30 and did the plowing of our driveway had lunch then went back out. Saw 13 does and fawns in the afternoon about a half hour before the end of legal shooting time. I think they are changing a bit due to the full moon and clear skys.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Monday was cold but very sunny all day. Only seen one doe before lunch time. But the afternoon was a time of heavy deer movement with me seeing 15. I don't think the full almost as bright as day moon is helping.

Tuesday was cloudy and cold. saw 2 does for the whole day in the woods. At lunch walked up the drive way to get the mail and there were two laying in the pines along the road and two behind the honey house. Got about 4 inches of snow during the several snow flurry's thru out the day.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Yesterday it was snowing as I went to the blind but felt much warmer that the past several days at 27F. Saw 2 does leavening the corn field to my north before I even got to the blind and I had left early to get there.
Just after legal shooting time I saw 3 more does going to a bedding area. Sure tried to grow horns on the biggest one. Probably would dress about 160 to 180 she was so big.
That is all I seen for the whole day while hunting. Dressing to go back out after lunch had a small doe come and lay down across the creek from the living room window.

Is already 31F here this morning, supposed to rise thru the day and maybe rain.

 Al


----------



## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Come on Al! Kill out will ya!? That elusive buck is out there somewhere! You've got a lot more patience than me. I would have given up on that stand by now!"Time to change things up!" Mid-day "search-n-destroy" might be in order!
We're waiting!


Wade


----------



## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

I am hunting through Al this season. That's why I was pushing for the furnace in his blind.


----------



## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

well the up side is all them does will make you more bucks later 

Here they have given out all the free doe tags you want here for 12 years , it has decimated our heard in rural southern Wisconsin , I think they have included to large an area in the CWD zones here, all their cases have come from the same areas that are almost impossible to hunt as they are all divided up into 5 and 10 acre lots and everyone says not in my backyard

where we have 10s of thousands of acres of mixed crop land with woods deer are sparse , but where this crop land adjoins suburbia in a 10 mile ring around the cities they have problems , they see many times the road kill we do 

deer aren't as stupid as people think they know where the good eats are tender shrubs , mowed lawns.


----------



## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

Not only that Pete,they know where the safe zones are. You can't tromp all over the place daily or ride the atv in excess or let dogs run loose where you want wildlife.In these little 10 acre plots of land they have established a zone that they are not being harassed and are comfortable there.Once these people get tired of smelling dead deer from CWD or get their prize shrubs eaten up every year and damage their car hitting deer it'll start to turn around.
At one point New Jersey banned deer hunting. I think it lasted about 3 years and they changed their mind.And the pendulum continues to swing!


Wade


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I did switch yesterday. This blind in the front yard 350 feet from the house. Saw 6 does and fawns.

It is tucked in the pines froze in place so not the best place for it right now.



It is tucked in the hole in the row of pines to the left and is froze down so I can't move it with out a major operation.



I am sure the fork horn I missed and another bigger rack buck is out there as I have seen them both during the season, and I don't think any one else is hunting near me. I know the woos next door gave up Nov 17th when he had some trespassing going on he didn't/wouldn't deal with.

 Al


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Went out and took the pup out for a morning potty call and feed her at 5:15. Fine misty freezing rain so I am going to hunt from the couch this morning. After a bit I'll take ashes out and coat the porches of the deer blinds so I won't slip off and break my neck.

I have a friend that has a place near Beaver Dam Wisconsin and he hasn't seen a deer track on his place in 4 years. Has talked about winning the lotto and putting a high fence around his farm and raising deer and elk.

Deer are far from stupid. I put the dog in the harness and go walk the woods and field. The deer allow us to get as close as 10 feet from them and listen as I talk to them. Some times in the back yard I think they are read to eat from my hand as they will get as close as 5 feet with out the pup present. Let me put on my hunting duds and hold a gun and they will run at the sight most times.

I had hunted hard all season last year during a misty rain on the last day I didn't feel real well so was holding the couch down. The buck came down the hill from the corn field and died about 50 feet from our screened in porch. He was so slow trailing the does I was able to dress and get set up on the edge of the oriental grass and flower bed.










 Al


----------



## 1shotwade (Jul 9, 2013)

There's the problem AL ! It's that broke-up camo-orange pattern! The deer get spooky when the see you trying to hide some of that orange.If ya just wear solid orange it doesn't tip them off that you're hunting! LOL!
Years ago my 4 brothers and I went mushroom hunting and we all did well except my one brother that was wearing hunter orange. I tipped him off that the orange was spooking the mushrooms back underground! LOL

Wade


----------



## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Nice deer. I don't see Al.


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Freeing rain all morning so I hunted from the couch. Saw a big deer across the creek from the living room window. Quarter to 8 and still to dark to make out if it had head gear with the binocs. Decided it was a big old doe when two fan size ones joined her. the trail across the creek is less than 50 yards from the house.
At noon the misty drizzle had turned into a heavy freezing rain. By 2:00 it was just a heavy rain.
I decided to take the wife go shopping.

I normally wear a camo coat the camo orange hood isn't normally worn a double knit thinsulate stocking cap is worn.



In Michigan to be legal you have to wear at least a hat of blaze orange.


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

well my season was finished at 5:22PM yesterday. The rule book says I can hunt today but with the freezing rain that started again yesterday afternoon and not having power to fix breakfast kind of put a damper on my desire.

I went out and took the pup out for her 5:00 am potty break and I could hear the trees in the woods loosing branches too.

 Al


----------



## NorthernMich (Apr 30, 2006)

my rifle is clean but we have 20+ inches of snow since yesterday

we have late antlerless...hope they can find the feed I have out


----------



## NorthernMich (Apr 30, 2006)

taken before 20+ inces of snow....lol


----------



## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Going on our 3 day with now power except from our gen set.
Gun is still loaded till we get the power back so I can have good light to clean it.

 Al


----------

