# what does this term mean?



## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

Easy Keeper

Is this some secret saying to indicate a condition, or does this mean the animal is well-behaved?


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

It is generally accepted to mean the horse keeps weight easily. Some horses need special diets, or lots of grain, and some get fat on pasture and good hay in the winter. The second type are termed Easy Keepers. 
What you have to be careful of with them is if you are used to having to feed a horse XYZ or just don't know better, they are more prone to founder.

Nothing to do with behavior. LOL most ponies are easy keepers and most ponies are brats!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Some people (meaning myself) are easy keepers too. Maybe I'm more like an air fern. I pull calories right out of thin air.:hysterical:


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I'm an easy keeper but not prone to founder.


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## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

I like easy keepers because they cost a lot less to feed (as Otter mentioned). You do have to keep an eye on them, especially in the spring. My parents have had a couple of ponies founder. When I look for a horse, I look for a few basic things: general soundness, good temperament, good overall conformation, good feet, and a tendency to be an easy keeper. Horses that meet this description tend to be a lot less expensive to keep than say your average OTTB that needs a lot of feed in order to keep weight. If you have very lush pasture, however, you may have to invest in a grazing muzzle for an easy keeper.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Another diet aid: the grazing muzzle for humans!


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

And as Lisa alluded to, there are easy keepers and then there are air ferns. 

An easy keeper will maintain weight quite comfortably on just pasture. 
An air fern, on the other hand, will stay fat and sassy on a dirt patch with the occasional tumbleweed that he chases down for variety.


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## mayfair (May 7, 2006)

ErinP said:


> And as Lisa alluded to, there are easy keepers and then there are air ferns.
> 
> An easy keeper will maintain weight quite comfortably on just pasture.
> An air fern, on the other hand, will stay fat and sassy on a dirt patch with the occasional tumbleweed that he chases down for variety.


LOL! Mine are air ferns!


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## rabbitpatch (Jan 14, 2008)

My colt is an easy keeper and my qh is an air fern! When I first got him, my qh weighed almost 1200lbs and that was AFTER my friend that I bought him from had kept him in a dry lot for a couple of months! I haven't measured him lately to check, but just looking at him he's probably in the 1,000lb range now and that's after this cold snowy winter we've had. He and 2 other horses have shared what they could find to nibble on in the pasture (not much grass once winter got going) and 1/2 bale of grass hay a day all winter long and I don't think any of them have lost a single ounce of weight.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

I have decided that I am halter-bred rather then performance bred - pretty to look at, real easy keeper with curves and bulk, but not particularly graceful when moving....


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

2horses said:


> I have decided that I am halter-bred rather then performance bred - pretty to look at, real easy keeper with curves and bulk, but not particularly graceful when moving....


LOL! Do you also have smallish feet?


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

farmergirl said:


> LOL! Do you also have smallish feet?


:hysterical:ound::bow:


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

More accurately, it's a term used in almost every "horse for sale" ad to try to sucker in buyers. Along with "bombproof". Absolutely amazing how many bombproof easy keepers there are for sale at any one time.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Easy keeper = insulin resistant . I think a lot of them are mineral deficient. Mine stays slimmer on his good minerals. I can actually find his ribs now!


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## powell7311 (Aug 4, 2010)

I consider most horses "easy keepers" if they arent getting much exercise. I have one quarter horse that is just used for trail riding every now and then that gets little to no grain, and the appendix registered quarter horse that i used to barrel race was fed grain daily and never gotten to the obese size. I think it all depends on the exercise.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

OMG you people.... you are too funny.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Easy keeper :read: founder time bomb


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## mayfair (May 7, 2006)

Tiempo said:


> Easy keeper :read: founder time bomb


So true...I find easy keepers/air ferns more difficult to manage than hard keepers. I have a lot of grass we end up mowing instead of grazing.


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## jill.costello (Aug 18, 2004)

Easy keepers are also pigglets that will steal other horses grain if you take your eyes off of them for a second....


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Means uses his food efficiently.

Technically, it is all about food usage and weight, but, it is also applied to horses that handle stress well. Many horses on the show circuit will lose weight if they don't get extra care. An easy keeper keeps his weight just fine and sleeps through all the hubbub.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

so what does green-broke mean then?

I saw an ad that said green broke, can carry saddle and rider.


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## Chixarecute (Nov 19, 2004)

green broke = not for beginners or people who've never trained before!


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> so what does green-broke mean then?
> 
> I saw an ad that said green broke, can carry saddle and rider.


Usually means we tied him tight to the hitch post, strapped a saddle on and threw a rider up there until he stopped bucking. 

You'll have to talk to the seller to get a good idea. People have different ideas of 'green-broke'. Some means the horse has just gotten past the stage of saddle and rider(literally the previous statement), but no formal training. And for others, it means they have had 30-60days of professional sound training and are 'trained' just not experienced and have the miles and time and new situations.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I agree.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Green broke to me is that the horse will willingly walk, trot, and canter under saddle- no indepth training. Usually simple arena work. 

It's supposed to mean that the horse has had extensive ground work as well... they usually haven't. Most people just don't put the time needed into teaching a horse the basics.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

"arena work?" lol

I don't know too many people who have regular access to an arena when starting colts. 
Green-broke might be a few rides out in a pasture, maybe introduced to the rope, if you're lucky... 

But wolffeathers is right. It completely depends on the seller what it is they're calling "green." 
To be sure it _really_ means, "experienced riders only!"


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> so what does green-broke mean then?


LOL, I thought of this while watching Far and Away last night.
There's a scene where this exact question is addressed.
<_cowboy spits, strokes nose of roan_> You've got your broke horse and your green broke horse. <_pats roan_> Your broke horse is _dependable_. <_nods towards corral where bronc is bucking and snorting_> Your green broke horse .... waaaall he's faster. But no tellin where you'll end up with that crazy b*stard. Mebbe Canada...

I always think of that scene when someone says to me "I can buy this green broke horse..."


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ErinP said:


> "arena work?" lol
> 
> I don't know too many people who have regular access to an arena when starting colts.
> Green-broke might be a few rides out in a pasture, maybe introduced to the rope, if you're lucky...
> ...


I don't know many people who *don't* have access to an enclosure (arena, round pen etc...) when starting young horses. lol


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I guess I consider a round pen something completely different than an arena. 
A round pen tends to be pretty small as compared to an arena...

Arena: Something big enough to rope in, run barrels, do dressage, etc. Whatever your event of choice.

Round pen: Usually about 40' in diameter, or thereabouts, in order to maintain a small working area... :shrug:



But maybe this is yet another example of terminology that varies _widely_.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I've always thought that the 40' round pens were pretty much useless for saddle work, great for ground work tho. I've used 60' round pens for starting under saddle work and the 80' are excellent for under saddle but too big for ground work. It all depends on where you are and what you have- every place I've started young horses have had indoor arenas. They are very very common in my area, we considered one here when we bought this farm but decided not to as I had access if we trailered the horses 20 minutes away at two different places where I taught lessons.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Well size of the round pen wasn't really my point... 

I was just saying that a round pen and an arena are two different things everywhere I've ever known. 
Even 60' in diameter is still about half the size of a small "arena." :shrug:


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I should be more careful about the words I chose. I will from now on, OK? Arena, round pen, paddock = small(ish) enclosure, as opposed to a large pasture, open plain, etc. I don't start young horses in large unfenced areas.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I don't think too many people do...

This goes back to my confusion that you thought green-broke should include some "arena work," remember? Ie, beginning to work on events. 
But I see you just meant that it should include some _ground_ work.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ErinP said:


> I don't think too many people do...
> 
> This goes back to my confusion that you thought green-broke should include some "arena work," remember? Ie, beginning to work on events.
> But I see you just meant that it should include some _ground_ work.


No, I didn't mean it should include some ground work. Green broke, to me, is all the ground work and some primary under saddle work, ie. walk, trot, canter, which to me is "arena" work. Arena in this case is a controlled enclosed area.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Green broke simply means the horse has had a few lessons but is not fully trained and not experienced. If you buy him, you will have to finish his training before he is safe to ride out on the trails.

The horse is a greenhorn.


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

Out west there aren't many arenas, but in the midwest and the east they're everywhere, so I think people tend to use them for a lot of training.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

So if a greenbroke horse has had all ground training and some primary saddle work, but not enough to ride out on the trail, what else is there? 100 more hours of riding around in circles in the enclosure? Not being sarcastic. I really don't know.


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

My take on an easy keeper (which I found is not the same for allot of those horses listed on cragslist stating such) 
Doesn't *have *to be grained to maintain
Doesn't *have* to have shoe's to walk or for light riding, good hooves
Doesn't *have* to be stalled to keep it healthy
Doesn't have to have this med or that 
Does have a good temperament
Does like to be handled
Maybe I was asking to much, but with much patience I finally found my easykeeper and couldn't be happier!! 
My take on greenbroke a horse that will let you ride em, but has has very little time under the saddle.
I loved that description from Far and Away ...just about sums it up!


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## wolffeathers (Dec 20, 2010)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> So if a greenbroke horse has had all ground training and some primary saddle work, but not enough to ride out on the trail, what else is there? 100 more hours of riding around in circles in the enclosure? Not being sarcastic. I really don't know.


If it is has the ground training and some primary saddle work, then pretty much it just needs is an experienced and steady hand to make the training sink in and get it past many 'first experiences'. Like the first time the horse decides it's done riding and wants to be through or the first time is really cocks an attitude and decides to test it's rider. Not just circles, but plenty of riding and hopefully new challenges and new stimuli.

I like to think about it like, you teach your dog to sit in the controlled environment of your house. They sit the first couple of times and you think they are "greenbroke" to sit, but pass them off to someone who isn't experienced enough to wait until they are sitting patiently to reward them or you try to reinforce the training in an overstimulated environment, they will unlearn the behavior and probably pick up a bad behavior as well. Eventually after enough 'training' the dog will know and remember that 'sit' means 'sit', no matter who asks or who's got the cookie.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> So if a greenbroke horse has had all ground training and some primary saddle work, but not enough to ride out on the trail, what else is there? 100 more hours of riding around in circles in the enclosure? Not being sarcastic. I really don't know.


No, of course not. After being _safely_ under saddle in an enclosed area the horse is ready to start experiencing life- cars, horns, motorcycles, kids, flapping laundry etc... It knows about verbal cues, walk, trot, canter, turn, stop which should be enough to start safely outside an enclosed area.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wolffeathers said:


> If it is has the ground training and some primary saddle work, then pretty much it just needs is an experienced and steady hand to make the training sink in and get it past many 'first experiences'. Like the first time the horse decides it's done riding and wants to be through or the first time is really cocks an attitude and decides to test it's rider. Not just circles, but plenty of riding and hopefully new challenges and new stimuli.
> 
> I like to think about it like, you teach your dog to sit in the controlled environment of your house. They sit the first couple of times and you think they are "greenbroke" to sit, but pass them off to someone who isn't experienced enough to wait until they are sitting patiently to reward them or you try to reinforce the training in an overstimulated environment, they will unlearn the behavior and probably pick up a bad behavior as well. Eventually after enough 'training' the dog will know and remember that 'sit' means 'sit', no matter who asks or who's got the cookie.


Exactly, you made it easier to understand than I did, thank you. :happy0035:


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

"Green broke" is a pretty flexible term.

If you bought a green broke horse from me, it would trailer, tie, shoe nicely, stand for clipping. It would have been carrying a saddle for 6 months. It would lounge, ground drive, know a bunch of voice commands. It would have a verbal and solid "whoa". It would have been ponied on the trails for it's entire life. It might very well be trained to pull a cart.

It would not neck rein and it would have never had a bit in it's mouth. It would have been backed frequently enough so that I was sure it wouldn't buck. It would stop on a verbal whoa but might or might not stop from the seat of your pants. It might or might not have been ridden out on the trails, but not near traffic.

A green broke horse from someone else might have never seen a human up close for it's first two years. Had a saddle thrown on it and been bucked out, and have a whoa if you can pull hard enough. Good luck with getting it into a horse trailer, but hey, once it is paid for it is not the seller's problem.

Do please make a note that you would never buy a green broke colt from me for $300. Expect to pay more like $10K. If you get training, you are very likely to pay more for it.

In this economy, if you shop carefully, it might very well be possible to purchase a very nice green broke colt for not much money. If anybody can get a fully trained horse for free, there aren't many buyers for a colt that isn't ready to be ridden out. People who can't feed their horses are (trying to) give them away.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

"green broke" is a term used to make beginners think they are buying a good horse.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

oregon woodsmok said:


> "Green broke" is a pretty flexible term.
> 
> If you bought a green broke horse from me, it would trailer, tie, shoe nicely, stand for clipping. It would have been carrying a saddle for 6 months. It would lounge, ground drive, know a bunch of voice commands. It would have a verbal and solid "whoa". It would have been ponied on the trails for it's entire life. It might very well be trained to pull a cart.
> 
> ...


If, in your terms, a greenbroke horse can do all that, why would you ever put a bit in its mouth? Seems after that much training, riding with a hack should be a breeze. 10K for a greenbroke horse? Excuse my ignorance, again, but are they made of gold?
I look at ads all over the country, still searching for the 'right one', and I rarely see a horse for that much. A grand champion paso fino, gypsy vaneers, fresians. Thats about it. 
Most animals I see are at 3-15 years old, most well trained 2000-7000. Most in the 2500 range.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

lonelyfarmgirl said:


> If, in your terms, a greenbroke horse can do all that, why would you ever put a bit in its mouth? Seems after that much training, riding with a hack should be a breeze. 10K for a greenbroke horse? Excuse my ignorance, again, but are they made of gold?
> I look at ads all over the country, still searching for the 'right one', and I rarely see a horse for that much. A grand champion paso fino, gypsy vaneers, fresians. Thats about it.
> Most animals I see are at 3-15 years old, most well trained 2000-7000. Most in the 2500 range.


It all depends on what the finished product will be. If the finished horse is going to be a $25-50K or more horse, then yes, I'd definitely expect to pay $10K for it as "greenbroke" as described. I'll probably never own a horse that costs that much, but if I were going to....you bet I'd want it to have all that work put into it before I get it. 

If you look in the right places, you'll certainly see horses in this price range...even in my local Craigslist we'll see horses for $15K+. Usually after that range they advertise them on specialty sites, but there is no shortage of hunters being sold in my area for $25-$75K.

ETA: Here's a perfect example: http://www.equine.com/horses-for-sale/horse-ad-1052980.html
A $60,000 3 year old. Way more than "greenbroke" but still being advertised as a pre-green hunter prospect. I'm sure this mare was easily $10K before any under saddle training....and by 6 if she's sound and successful she'll be worth way more than $60K. It all just depends on what you want in the end. I'd take her for $10K.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

wow. I really just don't know what else to say to that.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Wow. I don't know what to say either- that mare is exquisite. Her bottom breeding is the same as my Hanoverian Sport Horse mare.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Colts at my place are ridden in a bosal and mecate for the first 2 years. They get their ground driving in a halter. They won't have had a bit in their mouth unless they are broke to drive, and then they will know how to carry a snaffle and overcheck. 

They need years more training before they are finished horses. 

I've had 18 month olds out in the cart, but they have lots of previous experience with being ponied everywhere and have been trailered to shows, so they aren't fresh off the range and getting their first look at the world.

I've seen several horses that I thought the new owners stole for $125,000. You just look at the horse and go "Wow!!!". It depends upon what you are buying and what you want to do with the horse. If you want to win at International grand prix, want to win the Triple Crown, want to win National level cutting or reined cow horse, you'd have to be awfully lucky to buy a horse that could do it for a couple hundred dollars. If a horse hasn't been bred to do it for many generations, there isn't much chance of winning at that level. Well bred horses cost money.


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## lonelyfarmgirl (Feb 6, 2005)

what is a bosale and mecate? never even heard those words. 

I dont expect to find a horse worth having for a couple hundred bucks. I want a working animal. A do it all. I have seriously considered a mule, and just havent decided yet. I guess its a case of I will know when I meet it. I have never owned an equine of any kind.

I should also add, I can't ride something that bounces, like a quarter horse for example. I have ridden a tennessee walker and hated it. Also rode a foxtrotter mule once. VERY smooth.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

This is a bosal and mecate:










I don't use a bosal, it's way to easy to badly skin a young horse with one. I prefer a sidepull. 

This type of sidepull is best (IMHO) not the stiff knotted rope type:


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

BTW, loney, the bosal is the headstall and the mecate is the rein. (It's also called a McCarty)


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Actually, the bosal is attached to the headstall.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Well, yeah. lol
I see I left out the "attached to."

Because of course the _headstall_ is the headstall. 
(I see I also misspelled "lonely"...)


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

ErinP said:


> Well, yeah. lol
> I see I left out the "attached to."
> 
> Because of course the _headstall_ is the headstall.
> (I see I also misspelled "lonely"...)


Sorry, I thought it may be called something different on a _ranch_. lol


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Well actually, it's been my observation that terminology isn't so much a ranch/non-ranch thing so much as it is a regionally determined thing.


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