# Surface boding Cement Dye



## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

We are building an underground house of concrete block and are using Surface Bonding Cement. On the interior walls instead of painting or finishing with sheet rock, we were going to finish with an earthen plaster. I need to dig those books out of storage and read about it again.

However, since we are under a huge time crunch to get our mother in law into this house before winter, we were thinking of just adding a tint to the SBC. That would save us probably 2 weeks in going over the same wall with plaster. Yes I know it probably shouldn't take 2 weeks to plaster interior walls, but this is real time where things take 3 times as long to do as you think because of life. 

I've been looking into dyes and stains and found this site:
http://www.stainedfloor.com/

But was wondering if anyone had any other advice or direction.

jamie


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

I have played around extensively with tints (or pigments) and cement.
Surface bonding cement has several additives beyond regular concrete mixes.

That could mean that acrylic may retard the surface bonding.

Many liquid pigments have acrylic.

I suggest a powdered pigment available from a concrete supply (not big box hdwe).
The volume of powdered pigment is small, and it is usually called a mortar colorant, because mortar recipes are a bit different than regular concrete. That translates as the final color may not match the color charts for the powdered additives. 

I also suggest you contact the technical support for the surface bonding cement you choose.

I had a former interest in doing the same thing you describe with concrete block. I discovered that concrete block is made locally about everywhere. The mfg near me would deliver all the block plus the surface bonding cement and the cost was a lot less than the big box. That included delivery and unloading.

In CO I would need to place 2" pink foam insulation on the outside of the concrete block to comply with code. That cannot be placed until the block is in place. Since concrete block is very poor insulation, you should consider how you can accomplish insulation. I don't think inside insulation is good.

Good luck
Gary


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

Thank you so much for the information! We are not putting insulation on the inside because that would be a waste of mass. The insulation is going to the outside along with some other things and then we'll back fill. For the areas that are not going to be back filled, we will put some sort of final skin on like board and batten or whatever we can find cheapest. 

I do have an email in to the SBC company and I'll call a concrete company about prices also. I'm really interested though in these do it your self tints. The color doesn't have to be perfect or even consistent. Just don't want stark white on the inside. Any medium shade earth tone will do. Light enough to bounce light around and not suck it out of the room too.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Does you have clay nearby? If so, I'd be tempted to mix in some dried, screened, clay into some water and mix it with the sbc, and apply it to a test wall, to see if it'd still work right and have the right look...


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

That is exactly what my buddy at the farmer's market told me today Texican! Great minds think alike. So we're going to do a test patch with that because the clay is a very nice color. I also have a massive pile of clay dirt already screened.


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

Adding to the premixed surface bonding mix may seriously lessen the surface bonding.

I suggest you not waste time or money modifying an expensive special mix. Use it as labeled. The surface bond mix can be mixed on your own, provided you have the special ingredients and know what you are doing (not rocket science, nor special tools, just specifics on the recipe).

If you want a more attractive or adobe type appearance, I suggest you put a homemade mix on top of the surface bonded block, rather than guessing what the consequences related to the structural strength is by messing with the packaged mix.

The surface bonding approach can go much quicker, but the speed costs more.


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

Only 2 courses are dry stacked because we found it was a huge pain. Most of the wall is mortared. We're doing the SBC just for extra strength, but it's not as crucial as if the whole wall were dry stacked. There is also going to be a waterproof layer, so we don't need it for that either. 


We do not have time to apply plaster after the fact. We have to get my MIL in this house yesterday if you know what I mean.


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## gobug (Dec 10, 2003)

The MILS (s=syndrome) certainly has an impact on the schedule; however, your demonstrated effort and concern to show the MIL your respect and effort to comfort her, definitely gives you some flexibility.

I suggest that you have a board(sp?) mtg and involve the MIL in a choice on the path to take to achieve the most comfort possible for her. Of course, every possible improvement has already been made, but, unfortunately it is not to your level of desire to accomodate her pleasure. That may give you valuable input.

Good luck.
Gary


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## mortarsprayer (Jul 7, 2010)

Hello Gary,
It is so nice to find you here as I surf around this morning!
I have the original USDA Surface bonding cement guide posted: http://www.mortarsprayer.com/surface-bonding-cement/ This guide is the original and was written before people could easily purchase SBC premixed in bags but I think it is still helpful for people learning about what is possible.

We need to catch up soon. Things are finally rolling on finishing the underground home in Lorane. It would be fun to have another get together out there.
All my best,
Nolan


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

I have the original Surface bonding brochure from the USDA. Didn't realize they addressed coloring the SBC. I'll have to look at it again, thanks for the reminder.


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## bbbuddy (Jul 29, 2002)

I don't know why you don't just paint the walls whatever color you want...roller painting walls is fast. Each room can be a different color. Why limit yourself to tinting the sbc?


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

For one we don't want any paint in the house and for two, if we are already going through the motion to cover the walls why not kill two birds with one stone.


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

texican said:


> Does you have clay nearby? If so, I'd be tempted to mix in some dried, screened, clay into some water and mix it with the sbc, and apply it to a test wall, to see if it'd still work right and have the right look...


Today my MIL and I tried Iron sulfate as a stain and the color was too much. I've tried the darkest of the mortar stains and they are too light or pastelish when mixed with the SBC. 

So I got a bucket, put in some clay then filled the bucket about half way with water and let the clay sit all morning. It was mostly water. On one of my tests, I used that water to mix the SBC with and the color is PERFECT!!!! :hobbyhors

Now I'll watch it very closely to make sure it dries the same as the other patches. But


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Well, I wouldn't a thought about making a dye out of the clay/water mixture, and using the water for the sbc.

If you don't do the entire wall at one time, you indeed might end up with different tints...
might have to go back and do thin surface coat over the entire wall, if continuity matters. Sounds like an interestin' project.


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## Sparticle (Nov 1, 2004)

I made a big bucket of the clayish water, but decided today that wasn't enough. Going to get a bigger container. The plan is to mix up all the water needed for the whole project ahead of time so the shade will stay the same.


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