# Inverterrs dying



## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

The solar system consists of two 100 watt panels, a 30 amp PWM controller, and a deep cycle marine battery. It provides power for 12 volt lights and TV in the camper. Also uses an inverter to power the water system consisting of a 275 gallon tote, a 120 volt transfer pump, and a propane powered, battery ignited, water heater feeding a kitchen sink and a shower. Seems the solar system is adequate since the controller goes to float charge by 1:00 on a sunny day and 4:00 on cloudy days. 

My first inverter quit after 3 years. Bought a new one this spring. It worked all summer but died this fall. The manufacturer says it was subjected to high voltage. I don't want to keep buying new inverters so I am trying to figure out why they died. One possibility is the controller does an equalize charge every 28 days for 2 hours at 15.5 volts. The inverters had high voltage protection to 15 volts. I don.t turn the inverter on unless I want to run water because it draws some power even when it's not powering anything. In order for the inverter to be subjected to the equalization charge it would have to be on when the controller is putting out the higher voltage. I could go for decades before both these events occurred or it could happen tomorrow. Was this the reason the inverter died?

Another possibility is that the panels put out more power when they are cold. like in the fall when the inverter died. Shouldn't he controller keep the voltage from getting too high even though the panels are making more power?

At least I wasn't in the middle of a shower when the inverter died.


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

Nimrod said:


> The solar system consists of two 100 watt panels, a 30 amp PWM controller, and a deep cycle marine battery. It provides power for 12 volt lights and TV in the camper. Also uses an inverter to power the water system consisting of a 275 gallon tote, a 120 volt transfer pump, and a propane powered, battery ignited, water heater feeding a kitchen sink and a shower. Seems the solar system is adequate since the controller goes to float charge by 1:00 on a sunny day and 4:00 on cloudy days.
> 
> My first inverter quit after 3 years. Bought a new one this spring. It worked all summer but died this fall. The manufacturer says it was subjected to high voltage. I don't want to keep buying new inverters so I am trying to figure out why they died. One possibility is the controller does an equalize charge every 28 days for 2 hours at 15.5 volts. The inverters had high voltage protection to 15 volts. I don.t turn the inverter on unless I want to run water because it draws some power even when it's not powering anything. In order for the inverter to be subjected to the equalization charge it would have to be on when the controller is putting out the higher voltage. I could go for decades before both these events occurred or it could happen tomorrow. Was this the reason the inverter died?
> 
> ...


panels do put out more power when cold and the voltage can rise however as long as the voltage of the panels is not over the input of the charge controler you should be fine. now being a bit blunt .. what brand and model number did you have problems with and i will look up the spec. i am using growatt. others mppsolar and it seems renology is just a starter for people learning the stuff. so lets see what you have and are using. glad to help. mark.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Max brand panels, Renogy Wanderer charge controller, and the first inverter to die was a 300 watt Schumacher and second was 1200 watt Bestek.

I spent all my money building a barn so had to get a basic solar set up for my off grid property for cheap. I did most of the barn construction by myself.


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

Nimrod said:


> Max brand panels, Renogy Wanderer charge controller, and the first inverter to die was a 300 watt Schumacher and second was 1200 watt Bestek.
> 
> I spent all my money building a barn so had to get a basic solar set up for my off grid property for cheap. I did most of the barn construction by myself.
> 
> View attachment 102660


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

wow on the barn and i like the barn quilt.. you seem to not be asking for a lot of power..
if you have to replace it would this fit the bill its cheap and seems well liked 270 and its all in one and they do make them bigger and if i recall right some of these can be stacked to double the output.. means two together


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

No MPPT controller? Wonder if that would help


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

RJ2019 said:


> No MPPT controller? Wonder if that would help


the one i posted had mppt controller in the unit.. all in one.. almost too easy to set up


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Markansas said:


> the one i posted had mppt controller in the unit.. all in one.. almost too easy to set up


Sorry for the confusion, was replying to the first post in the thread


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Mark, 
Glad you like the barn. It's 24X40. That's a Pennsylvania Dutch Hex sign, not a barn quilt. I will make another hex sign this winter to go on other side of the door.

The controller/charger you mention looks like it would really be neat but way out of my price range and exceeds my current needs. I will get a bigger system when I build a cabin. For now I fire up the genny when I want to run power tools.

The Bestek is under warranty and they are sending me a new one. I don't want to smoke the new one so the question remains; was there a high voltage that caused the inverters to fail or are these inverters just poor quality? I have thought about putting an automotive type voltage regulator between the battery and the inverter.


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

Nimrod said:


> Mark,
> Glad you like the barn. It's 24X40. That's a Pennsylvania Dutch Hex sign, not a barn quilt. I will make another hex sign this winter to go on other side of the door.
> 
> The controller/charger you mention looks like it would really be neat but way out of my price range and exceeds my current needs. I will get a bigger system when I build a cabin. For now I fire up the genny when I want to run power tools.
> ...


do you know what a zenior didoe is it is a one way path for dc to go threw and you might need a current resistor also now its depending on what you get you can limit the amount of voltage going to your inverter.. here is a quote and could use the info on how many volts you are limited to and how much current.. so this is one way of control if you get me those numbers i will see what i can find for ya to do this.. ok mark
Zener diodes are used for *voltage regulation*, as reference elements, surge suppressors, and in switching applications and clipper circuits. The load voltage equals breakdown voltage VZ of the diode. The series resistor limits the current through the diode and drops the excess voltage when the diode is conducting.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Nimrod said:


> Mark,
> Glad you like the barn. It's 24X40. That's a Pennsylvania Dutch Hex sign, not a barn quilt. I will make another hex sign this winter to go on other side of the door.
> 
> The controller/charger you mention looks like it would really be neat but way out of my price range and exceeds my current needs. I will get a bigger system when I build a cabin. For now I fire up the genny when I want to run power tools.
> ...


On a 12v system you should not be getting more than like 14.4v out of the batteries to the inverter. Unless, your charge controller isnt controlling the charge correctly. The charge controller should be preventing that. If that isnt the problem, then your issue is kind of a head scratcher. Might be a battery malfunction but the charge controller seems like the more likely culprit.
Your voltage regulator solution may be workable, I havent pondered the possibilities of doing that before.


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

RJ2019 said:


> On a 12v system you should not be getting more than like 14.4v out of the batteries to the inverter. Unless, your charge controller isnt controlling the charge correctly. The charge controller should be preventing that. If that isnt the problem, then your issue is kind of a head scratcher. Might be a battery malfunction but the charge controller seems like the more likely culprit.
> Your voltage regulator solution may be workable, I havent pondered the possibilities of doing that before.


it seems he is overloading the input from the way i was reading it not the input of the batterys the input of the panels to the charge controler and it burned out from as they said too much voltage.. his thought was cold panels made a higher output in voltage. and maybe.. however he ran one for three years before it failed. this one went much quicker so could be just a bad unit .. kinda hard to tell unless ya take it apart . shame it be some thing as simple as a cold solder joint on a transistor . me i would love to tear it apart and see inside. my electronic is very old school starting with tubes.. still got the tools .. component level repair is what i used to do.. thanks mark


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

The panels are connected to the charge controller. The charge controller is connected to the battery terminals. The inverter is also connected to the battery terminals. Therefore, the inverter receives the voltage from the controller or the battery, whichever is higher. I run the inverter and transfer pump in the afternoon. The charge controller is charging the battery in float mode so the inverter is mostly running off the solar panels. If high voltage is the problem it may be that the controller is trying an equalize charge at 15.5 volts or the panels are making more than normal voltage because they are cold and the controller is passing that through to the inverter. 

Say goodnight Gracie.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

No not really , power out would be drawn down in seconds. 
Your problem is junk inverters that are Not mention to last .
By once cry once , most inverters can take solar voltages .
The cheep inverter don’t have lo voltage shut off you. Are probably sucking the juice out of the battery and the voltage is to low , this we kill a inverter .
One battery is really way to small to run much of a inverter . 
Even at full charge you could draw down one small battery in a few minutes
when every thing turns off the low voltage recovers and you could still be @ 95% charge .
I have 16 230 ah battery’s and if I powering the house and turn on my micro wave 
it will draw down my power I 10 mins and pop my inverter if the sun is out it no problem 
Ihave 4500 watts of solar .


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

Wellbuilt said:


> No not really , power out would be drawn down in seconds.
> Your problem is junk inverters that are Not mention to last .
> By once cry once , most inverters can take solar voltages .
> The cheep inverter don’t have lo voltage shut off you. Are probably sucking the juice out of the battery and the voltage is to low , this we kill a inverter .
> ...


myself being new at learning solar. it took me two months before i found just the inverter i think could do what i wanted.. diy solar forum is a great resourse. tho not as chatty .. they know there stuff.. myself i looked at the best sma and midnight .. and decide on the next level down growatt.. 8k . i think sometimes when you try to save a bit of money and the first install that con cost you more in the long run. even i hope i did not make a error in my buys


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

im on diy solar allso , there all about pinching pennies into quarters . 
A lotof guys like the growatt units im sure they will hold up for a few years 🤷‍
Your unit was allmost free compared to a off grid system .
I still have every inverter I’ve ever bought and they are still working , I have a freedominverter from 87 in the bottom of my sail boat and I have not even seen it in 20 years its mounted in the bottom of the boat .
I installed an outback system in my cabin my self , it was just a small part of the project 
I built the place with my son , going in year 7 
I have friends that have had out back equipment running for 20 years . 
when your system dies you just buy a new one ,no big deal . I would keep one in stock .🤗
i bought my system 4 years ago and the aio systems where not really available.


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

Wellbuilt said:


> im on diy solar allso , there all about pinching pennies into quarters .
> A lotof guys like the growatt units im sure they will hold up for a few years 🤷‍
> Your unit was allmost free compared to a off grid system .
> I still have every inverter I’ve ever bought and they are still working , I have a freedominverter from 87 in the bottom of my sail boat and I have not even seen it in 20 years its mounted in the bottom of the boat .
> ...


ya i got 30 240watt panels .. these were so cheap now.. the inverter with shiping about 2k and then 48v batterys are needed to even start this up. hope to keep it under 5 or 6 k price for the whole thing and think i can.. if i dont overwork this they have been known to last 14 years from what i read.. by then i might not care .. its a chance . and i think the price of grid electric going up is going to make this a good deal in about 2 years .. i should break even .. will find out
the guy falling between floors i am alright so far... alright so far...


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

im using 16 215 ah battery’s from sams club 
they work good .
The cost 89 bucs plus tax . 
I get 6 years or more out of them . 
I’m using 15 295 watt panels now and the give me good power . 
I have 15 more to ground mount , so I’ll be 9000k watts soon
the thing is I get a lot of snow here , the solar guy never talks about the snow . 
I’m off grid on top of a Mountain in the middle of now where . 
I was covered in snow with my solar turned off for 10 weeks last year January to the second week in March .








I use 5 gallons of fuel in my Honda a week .


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

Wellbuilt said:


> im using 16 215 ah battery’s from sams club
> they work good .
> The cost 89 bucs plus tax .
> I get 6 years or more out of them .
> ...


seems cold there it was almost 65 here .. kinda odd weather.. panels was too high to clean? i will remember that when i set them up solid. they are temp now on three drill pipe 30 ft long and and and angle iron. starting at three feet off the ground.. take a broom to them was my thought.. gen for back up.. going to go with the this battery 15 year life span then add as i can.. a few years should have several working together.. keep me in the loop on what happening i am still learning mark


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

That’s a diy battery , real off grinders use LA 
I would get a bank of lead acid for your first set . 
The whole diy site is baced on guys trying to get those fancy battery’s to work .
With Chinese inverters😂 
I think they mite be worth looking into in 5/6 years when the have them working 
I would hate to have a set of those die early 
Because of a miss hap


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I use a 35’ painting pole with a window washing squeegee About 2’ wide 
It works for the 1 to 3” every nite Squalls 
But over 6” and I use a roof scraper and I need some warm days above 25o to melt the snow so it slides the top 6 panel stay clear 
And the 3 on the bottom right can be cleaned off 
The problem is once the snow turns to ice
It Dosent come off easy . 
On a sunny day I can get to full charge with just 9 panels but the have to be cleared early .
It seams like some one turns the sun off from thanks giving to a couple weeks after New Years 😊


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

Wellbuilt said:


> That’s a diy battery , real off grinders use LA
> I would get a bank of lead acid for your first set .
> The whole diy site is baced on guys trying to get those fancy battery’s to work .
> With Chinese inverters😂
> ...


lead acid has to short of a cycle life .. i would kill then in a year or two.. this should last at least 15 years 
and to be fair i dont know what i am doing for i am kinda stumbling in the dark a little extra cost for less worry is what i was thinking..


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Markansas said:


> lead acid has to short of a cycle life .. i would kill then in a year or two.. this should last at least 15 years
> and to be fair i dont know what i am doing for i am kinda stumbling in the dark a little extra cost for less worry is what i was thinking..


I got the same advice when I lived off grid. Get some cheap batteries first because you will beat them up. There is a learning curve for sure. I second the suggestion to start out with LA


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Who cares how long they last ? It’s 1500 bucks . 
LA is low tec but has been around for ever . 
The diy forum if full of guys trying to get them to work . Have you Sean there up in smoke section ? 
Where are you located ? Is it sunny how many sun hours do you get .
SHOULD LAST 15 YEARS . 
A lot of things should work, but my thinking is it’s to new to trust .
I would not want them in the living space , or even attached to the house . 
They allso need to be kept warm 45o to get good performance .
There is not really much maintenance , and the golf cart battery’s are rugged Made to be used in golf carts . 
My battery’s sit in a insulated box in the garage , I look at them every week after hard charging and use a heat gun to check for hot spots. 
I watch my controller for Unusual overnight power usage. 
The key is really location I use power all day if I have sun my battery stays full
over nite I used 11% and I can charge up in a few hours .
The inverter is my largest draw of power just being on . 
charging 10/20% of your bank dosent really stress the battery’s .
I can charge 10% in 2 hours 20% takes 5 hours 30% 8 hours . Just a example . 
If you have reliable sun that dosent matter . 
I check my battery’s a few times a year and fill them twice . 
They are going into the 4th season and are using a little more water so I’m going to fill 3 times this year and takes a hour .
The battery’s are still showing allmost 100% so I’m sure ill get 5/6 years or more out of them . 
I lost one set of battery’s due to equipment failure with Chinese equipment☹ 
my place uses very little power and runs on 200/300 watts with 2 frig freezers and every thing else build to save power my well pumps on700/1000watts depending on water depth 
I would learn on lead acid battery’s and in 5 years
If you watch you over nite loads ,


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

Wellbuilt said:


> Who cares how long they last ? It’s 1500 bucks .
> LA is low tec but has been around for ever .
> The diy forum if full of guys trying to get them to work . Have you Sean there up in smoke section ?
> Where are you located ? Is it sunny how many sun hours do you get .
> ...


i was also thinking of forklift batterys.. 2 volt cells . that way if one dies i could replace. still learning


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

Wellbuilt said:


> Who cares how long they last ? It’s 1500 bucks .
> LA is low tec but has been around for ever .
> The diy forum if full of guys trying to get them to work . Have you Sean there up in smoke section ?
> Where are you located ? Is it sunny how many sun hours do you get .
> ...


sounds good i found some deep cycle agms local at 75 each they are blemishs.. and new. it will do for a start
i tried to keep cost under the 5k loan i got at 1% interest . now with that said. i wanted a over kill that i hope will last for the rest of my life. if not it should at least kill my electric bill and that by itself will make my payments to the bank.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Fork lift battery’s are good but still expensive and they are hard to move with out equipment.
I may go that way but I can move them .
I don’t know , equipment last 10 years on average so I’m thinking you are going to out live your system 👍 
agms dont last as long as lead acid , they have some pluses like faster charging and they can put out more power At one time . 
But you have no way to know the condition of the battery’s and they are easy to kill, Over charge them and they gas out and they are done .
I hope your panels don’t get broken sitting so close to the road , that placement would cause me to lose sleep.
it Is easer to conserve power then it is to make it 
I would still get LA golf cart battery’s from sams club for your first set .


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## Markansas (Nov 24, 2021)

Wellbuilt said:


> Fork lift battery’s are good but still expensive and they are hard to move with out equipment.
> I may go that way but I can move them .
> I don’t know , equipment last 10 years on average so I’m thinking you are going to out live your system 👍
> agms dont last as long as lead acid , they have some pluses like faster charging and they can put out more power At one time .
> ...


the panels are temp there on a few pieces of drill pipe . next year if i can . i plan on the panels being a awning going over the sidewalk. and yes i am learning on this .. could have got a forlift 48v battery 1500.. ya can take them apart to move. 2 volt cells..then still not sure.. ran out of money... next check.. something to start this beast.. grin


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## notyoung (4 mo ago)

I'm aware this is an older post but someone else might come along with the same question.

The original poster's problem is probably the difference between "*Inverter not turned on* during equalization" and "*Inverter not connected* during equalization". Most inverters are connected all the time and the "ON/OFF" switch activates the electronics, instead of having a switch that can handle the XX or XXX amps that an inverter can draw. 
If the circuit breaker for the inverter is ON, it is *connected* to the battery - regardless of the position of the inverter's ON/OFF switch. 
Don't think in terms of an older radio or TV where the switch actually controlled the connection to power. Think in terms of the remote controlled TV that's always connected and has the LED to let you know it's ready to work.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Nimrod said:


> That's a Pennsylvania Dutch Hex sign, not a barn quilt.


Perhaps you need a different Hex Sign. Sounds like a witch has vexed your inverter.


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