# Crazy? Hand Dig a 530' water line trench to 3 foot deep



## 45n5 (Jun 9, 2008)

I'm in kentucky. 

I've got 530 feet I need to run a water line from the meter to my almost livable homestead (I'm moving there in a couple weeks, water or not).

The water line needs to be 30inches deep here by code. The plumbing inspector needs to inspect the entire thing before it's covered up.

Has anyone hand dug a trench like this before? Is it crazy to even think I could do it myself?

The quotes I've gotten just for the excavation work are

$1 per foot (*$530*) local guy

$2 per foot (*$1060*) local guy

and to rent a backhoe nearby
*
$480* - $190 per day (2 days) plus $50 delivery each way

*Free *- using my already paid for shovels and my back 

I've got the cash but I really, really don't want it to give it to someone to dig a long hole for me.

Is it crazy to think I could dig a trench that deep and that long myself? How long would it take you? Thanks.


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## RJMAcres (Sep 9, 2009)

I think it's crazy to do it but hey, I like my back intact.


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## switchman62 (Oct 19, 2007)

I dug one about 120ft long/ 3ft deep last spring. The first 2 ft down is not bad. The final foot down is a pain. You cant get down in the trench to work the shovel. It took me a full weekend to do it.

I'd vote for the $1 per foot guy.

Dave


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

hire the dollar a foot guy and start yourself at the other end.....


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## rzrubek (May 13, 2004)

I'm with the "Hire the dollar a foot guy" crowd. Save your back and do something else around the place to get it ready.


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## mainegirl (Feb 21, 2011)

we thought we could do a trench half that long and we were wrong....i agree with dave...the first two feet aren't bad and you're thinking...i can do this....but the last foot and little bit are something else...we also found that as we worked around the edges it would fill in a little and we had to redig some sections and the occasional unforseen obstacle would present itself...rocks, roots, impossibly hard dirt..... we eventually hired a guy at about a dollar foot and it was by far the best money we spent.....


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## Cheribelle (Jul 23, 2007)

Aren't there a lot of rocks in Kentucky?


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## myheaven (Apr 14, 2006)

higher it out. We often Barter things like this.


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## Ky-Jeeper (Sep 5, 2010)

When I was 21 and out of work I dug 100' or so of water line north of Bowling Green Ky. I was acustomed to hard work, but it was one of hardest jobs I've done. Rent a Ditch Witch. If you have large limestone let someone with a backhoe dig it.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I am 69 yrs old. David is 48 yrs old. We dug a trench that is slightly over 100 ft long for our freeze-proof water hydrant. It had to be 4 ft at one end and it sloped down hill; so it got more and more shallow. The majority of it was 3 ft deep.

The ground we had to dig in was sandstone,sand rocks & hard clay with a few granite stones in it. It was a terrible thing to dig; yet we got it done! 

My suggestion to you would be dependant on the type of soil you are digging in. A trench that shallow would be difficult; but much depends on how hard your ground is. However, a trench that "long" would keep me depressed! If you have the money, I would definately hire it done!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Crazy? naw, just masochistic. It will take weeks to dig a trench that long, that deep, and it will be brutal on your body. I had to run 800 feet of water line for my place and rented a small backhoe. It took me about 5 hours and cost around 150 bucks. But then I am lazy and generally try to find the easy way out of most things.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

I dug such a trench when I was pregnant! Yes, indeed! This is one of those "I walked barefoot to school in the snow, uphill both ways" types of stories:

The Power company told me they would dig the trench with a "ditch witch" but charge me $380.00 to dig it. This was in 1997. At the time I thought $380.00 was robbing me and I told them I would dig the trench my own self. I did not realize I was pregnant yet or I would not have done it........

The Contractor who was renovating the house said he would not help and he said he did not think I would dig the trench. He left for the weekend. The Inspector said he did not think I could dig it and the Electric Company said they did not think I could dig it by hand either. I told them to "hide and watch". 

I had the help of my 2 young boys, then ages 5 and 8. I also had the help of 2 young men, ages 20 and 24. It took us all day long both Saturday and Sunday. We had to chip through an old gravel driveway bed and then dig into the dirt. We just chipped and shoveled and we took turns and we got it finished late Sunday.

Monday morning when the Electric Company was supposed to arrive at 8 AM, they did not show up. When I called them, they said there was "no way" I had dug that trench in only 2 days. They made me put the Contractor on the phone to confirm the ditch was dug. Later that day, two Supervisors from the Electric Company showed up to see my ditch and they told me that never had any "woman" dug such a ditch. I was pretty proud but still mad that they would charge such a high fee when they had the ditch-witch to begin with.

I am still glad we dug the ditch ourselves. It was a "moral" issue for me since I did not think the power company should be charging that much money. My older boys still remember digging the ditch and the "morality tale" behind it and they are still proud. The 2 men who helped still laugh about the time they helped me dig the ditch and keep the $380. from the power company.

I would say if you have someone to help you and you can just make a weekend out of it, then do it. If your time, however, can be better spent doing some other task that would be more valuable to you, then pay the money and get help.

Did you try to rent a ditch witch? Would that be cheaper than the backhoe? We rented a ditch-witch another time but it clogged up with roots and we had to get a backhoe to finish. 

Good luck!


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## Native87 (Jan 21, 2010)

I will never forget my water line. It is about 325 ft long and we used an old 5hp tiller that was narrower in the back than the tines were on the front. It was used to loosen the dirt and then we shoveled it out. When we came to a rock we just had to hand dig it. It was a crazy job mostly straight uphill but we did get it. I wouldnt want to do it again. That old tiller by the way still gets used in the garden at times. Its got to be 30 years old.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

Find two macho football players who want to stay in shape for the winter season. Put them on each end and start them to a flag at the middle. First one to get to the flag wins........and gets a cash bonus. Instead of tug of war, it's "dug" of war. Invite the cheerleaders, take pledges for a local charity--make a high school contest out of it.



geo


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Sounds like a nightmare. I don't know what your kentucky ground is like, but I'd be hitting rocks every few of feet here.

I suppose you CAN do it...the more hands you can get to help you the better.


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## snoozy (May 10, 2002)

Use your brains not your brawn. Save your brawn for stuff there is no other way to get done. If you don't like the $1 a foot deal, get some other bids. On the other hand, $1/ft is very easy to figure...


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## SparkyMaine (Jan 10, 2011)

Find out how much it would cost to rent a mini-excavator in your area. I've never rented one, but I've heard of prices around a couple hundred dollars per day. Maybe you could rent one for a day for half the cost of the $/foot guy and get it done in a day? Maybe that's too much to get done in a single day? Certainly worth looking into as an option...


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## SparkyMaine (Jan 10, 2011)

And actually, you might also look into a heavy duty trencher. Maybe it would be wide enough / deep enough for what you need, at a little less $$ than an excavator?


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## Two Cents Worth (Dec 8, 2002)

Why use a more expensive back hoe when a trencher will do? Rocks?

Assemble the water line beside the trench and move it into the trench and test before backfilling.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

yes it can be done , sounds like some thing i might have tried but having dug 50 foot 3 foot deep trenches and had it take all day i would think yours will take a solid week or two , if your unemployed and have nothing but time on you hands go for it but if you have anything better to do a dollar a foot seems very reasonable 

in my town at the end of the civil war there was a lot of returning men from the war so they had a great idea to put them to work and they dug a 2 mile long race to divert the river to a hydro plant in the middle of town they did it and it ran the mill , dairy and we had electric before milwakee or chicago and we were a tiny little town more people live on one block in chicago than all of our town combined , that amount of digging would now be done by 4-5 earth movers in a week or 2 weeks time but if you have the labor use it.


go did all day tomorrow , then decide if 1 dollar a foot is worth it.


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

labor is free. do it.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

myheaven said:


> higher it out. We often Barter things like this.


Ya really, ones health is worth more then that I would think, it is well worth to hire it out then spoil a persons health like that. That is what machines are made for doing to save a person from doing permanent injury. You can do it by machine, but keeping a person healthy is worth more then trying to dig something that far and that deep, by yourself, even though you may have the time, Think How much is Your health worth? That dollar a foot is well worth it in my book.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

IF you value your time at more than about 5-10cents/hr, get it done by machine. 

A backhoe can do more work in a couple minutes than you can do in a hour. Once I figured out how REALLY cheap machine time is, I never worried about it since.

Now, if you want to really want to save money, work smart. 

Rent the backhoe, ( I assume the 2 days is a minimum since it shouldn't take 16hrs to dig 530' of trench), AND have a couple other projects that need doing at the same time, get multiple use out of the machine. That lowers your cost, and cuts out the operator labor on the other two quotes ( assuming you can RUN a backhoe without a lot of learning curve )

When we started out place, I actually BOUGHT an older backhoe from a local dealer, put in water lines ( I needed 1200' of 3' deep trench.....and WAY too many rocks for a trencher...tried it ), then dug my basement, then put in my septic system, THEN traded the backhoe back to the same dealer on a new farm tractor......almost getting the use of the machine for couple months for free.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I rented a trencher for $100/day and dug 900' of trench in about 4 hours but I was digging in sand and clay.

I think it was only about 2 1/2' deep but I've seen larger ones for rent. 

I'd rent the trencher and save my back.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

michiganfarmer said:


> labor is free. do it.


Maybe your labor is free, but I do place a certain amount of value on my time.


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## FarmerRob (May 25, 2009)

Unless it is too rocky for a Ditch Witch (available for a reasonable price at most equipment rental stores,) then rent the backhoe and get this done. You won't enjoy living without water. After digging the first 30 feet you will by hand you would probably be willing to pay twice the price to have the backhoe or Ditch Witch on the job.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

Your labor may be free but how much is your insurance deductible? How much will a bad back cost you for the rest of your life? When we were building, we found that by paying cash, prices went down. Hiring a skilled operator if you aren't one, will cut the time it takes to dig the ditch dramatically and can save money in the long run.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

$1 per foot = Dirt Cheap.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

can you rent a ditch witch??


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## solidwoods (Dec 23, 2005)

Maybe price a mini back hoe with bucket on front.
Plan other work for it for the same rental time period.
Work it with a neighbor who needs some hours also to reduce the cost.
Sounds like the septic/sewer is already in so that opportunity is gone.
jim


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

beaglebiz said:


> can you rent a ditch witch??


Ditch witches work GREAT ( nothing faster ) UNLESS you have any kind of rocks over about baseball size.....then they don't work worth a flip. (At least the size you normally see at a rental store )

They simply bounce all over the rocks and don't work.

THAT was the case of my place. I pulled rocks out of my water line trench the size of small cars....the backhoe wouldn't EVEN lift them, but it would drag them up out of the hole and I could push them to one side.

Rocks are something else to consider in hand digging. One rock 1-2' in diameter is an all day project to get out of a hole just by itself.....you run into a 3-4' one, and your hand trenching now involves a BIG detour.


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## houndlover (Feb 20, 2009)

My husband hand dug about 400' with our teenaged son "helping". It took weeks! He said "never again". We've since bought a backhoe attachment for our tractor!


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Chances are the $1.00 / foot guy is the one to hire. (Is he using a ditch witch, backhoe or what?)

To do it by hand, you are looking at blistered hands, a sore back, sore arms, and other sore muscles and HOPEFULLY you don't hurt yourself in the process.
(And if you are looking to do this soon - I would assume it's still somewhat cold in KY and you might still have frozen ground.)


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Spend the money and get the water line done!


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## 45n5 (Jun 9, 2008)

thanks for the feedback everyone. i can't believe so many people have experience with this

I'll take a few pics and post them when I get it done

after reading everything I'll be giving the $1 per foot guy a call


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Think risk/reward ratio.

I had to run a 300' line the same depth through chert. It took a JD 600 backhoe to get the bulk of the trench dug, and then two of us with a mattock/pickax and shovel to take out some of the ledge I ran into. I wanted the experience of doing the job on my own. It was worth the money for the backhoe rental to serve my dual goals. If I now had a similar job and someone quoted a buck a foot, I'd ask "When do you want to start?" Be aware that when you rent equipment, you are responsible for the cost of any damages you might do to it.

The only way I would dig a 530' trench by hand is if the sweet lord was on the other end and that was the only way to get to him. I'd think twice even then.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Chances are the $1.00 / foot guy is the one to hire.


Yes, but price a 3 foot trencher at the rental yard first. I'm guessing it will be half that much.


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## switchman62 (Oct 19, 2007)

If you do decide to try it, here is a link to a trench shovel that I bought. It is the only way I could get the last 6" or so.

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3860876
Dave


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I'm sure you can do it, but I wouldn't waste the time trying. Not hard to find a better job than hand ditch digging.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

The money you save on machine hire, you will spend at the doctor. Save your cash somewhere else. 

There is plenty to do on a homestead where doing the work yourself is a huge savings. This isn't it.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

As long as you have the right tools, it will make it a bit easier. As another poster pointed out, a deep narrow trench is difficult to stand it. Besides a regular shovel, as Switchman said, a narrow trench shovel with a long handle makes it easier to remove the soil from the bottom. You'll need a spud bar for prying out rocks and breaking up soil and a post hole digger. Post hole diggers can be used to clean out trenches too. BTDT

Get the longest handle on the trench shovel you can. I've seen 6' handles. They're more clean out tools than digging tools. Also great for cleaning out trenches dug by powered trenchers.


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2011)

It depends on the ground. I wouldn't try to hand dig it if there are rocks or roots. Look in to renting a ditchwitch or a trencher, not a backhoe. Check Harbor Freight under keyword "trencher' to see one. A backhoe is overkill. Does a neighbor have one already they would let you use or rent?

You are lucky, up here water lines have to be down about 5 feet so they don't freeze.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

I've dug trenches with shovels, I've dug em with picks..

Everything depends on the sail and amount of rocks and roots..

I would rent a ditch witch if I could, if the soil is right for one. Otherwise I'd likely hire the $1 a foot guy.


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

45n5 said:


> after reading everything I'll be giving the $1 per foot guy a call


Good move. It's likely that back-filling the trench by hand is a worthwhile application of muscle-power (if you don't have a capable machine on hand to do the job). God gave you a brain so you could work smart, rather than just pant, grunt, groan, use muscles, and misuse your single one-time-issue frame. Asking advice, thinking things through, and not insisting on making your own mistakes is a worthy use of his gifts.


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## Farmerwilly2 (Oct 14, 2006)

I'll 23rd the trencher rental. It's a lot easier and a lot faster.

One thing that puzzles me is all of the talk of injuries and destroying your back. From digging? Ya'll are kidding me aren't ya? I kind of expect a bit of work when I work on the place. I reckon if you physically can't do it, you can't do it and you hire in some way. Just seems like there a lot of folks that are in some rough shape.


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## Johnny Dolittle (Nov 25, 2007)

I would get a few more estimates and might price renting a machine also.


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## Cascade Failure (Jan 30, 2007)

One missing puzzle piece. 

Can you earn greater than $530.00 in the time it would take YOU to dig the trench?


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

Cascade Failure said:


> One missing puzzle piece.
> 
> Can you earn greater than $530.00 in the time it would take YOU to dig the trench?


Good question!

Now let's do some math to try an answer that question. 

If you can dig 10 feet per hour it will take you 53 hours to finish the trench.

At 20 feet per hour you will have 26.5 hours in just the digging.

Thirty feet per hour, 17 hour 40 minutes.

It seems to me this 'project' would be a multi day affair. Were it me (it was two years ago) I'd hire the trenching and I'd start laying the water line while the trencher was finishing the trench. If you time it right you will be ready to fill in the trench by the time the trencher leaves.

Now, what could you be doing in those 18, 27, or 53 hours rather than digging that trench?

Jim


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

I did a trench for my phone line, which admittedly doesn't really compare to your project. My trench was 130 feet long and was required to be 18 inches deep. I rented a 24 inch trencher to do the job. It seems to me that the trencher rental was about $125, and the trench job took maybe 1 1/2 hours to actually do. I believe that the rental yard had a larger trencher, but was considerably more, maybe twice that amount.

In the photo you can see the trench to the house, and the trencher is on the trailer behind my Explorer ready to go back to the rental yard.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

To answer the question, yes. For one thing the odds are you'll get the trench about half way done and it will rain washing the trench 3/4 full (DO NOT ASK!!!) 

For another your time and effort are most likely going to be better spent else where. This is one of the times if there was any way possible I'd drop the cash to get it done. But I'd check on renting a trencher and doing it myself vs hiring it done.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

watcher said:


> To answer the question, yes. For one thing the odds are you'll get the trench about half way done and it will rain washing the trench 3/4 full (DO NOT ASK!!!)


My problem was with snow. Shortly after digging the trench we got a weather advisory saying that heavy snow was on the way, but the appointment to do the phone line was a week away. I called the service department to ask if they could put the cable in the trench (not hook it up, just put it in the trench before the trench filled with snow). Of course, being a phone company the lady on the phone really seemed to enjoy refusing.

I went to the phone company facility to explain the situation to an installer. He sent someone over with some cable that afternoon. The next day we got over a foot of snow. The trench didn't get filled-in until spring.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Nevada said:


> My problem was with snow. Shortly after digging the trench we got a weather advisory saying that heavy snow was on the way, but the appointment to do the phone line was a week away. I called the service department to ask if they could put the cable in the trench (not hook it up, just put it in the trench before the trench filled with snow). Of course, being a phone company the lady on the phone really seemed to enjoy refusing.
> 
> I went to the phone company facility to explain the situation to an installer. He sent someone over with some cable that afternoon. The next day we got over a foot of snow. The trench didn't get filled-in until spring.


Strange. All the places I have ever lived the phone company installed the cable right up to the box on the house.

From the looks of your soil in the pic I don't see why you'd have to use a trencher to put in a phone cable. Most places where there's no rock they use what looks like a large chisel plow. Best pic I could find quickly. Notice the 'hook' on the rear. They just drive that into the soil and drive forward. Puts the cable down as fast as you can drive and there's no trench to fill behind it.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

watcher said:


> Strange. All the places I have ever lived the phone company installed the cable right up to the box on the house.


Frontier only takes it to the pedestal, you have to trench from there. This is the second time I've had to to it, since TDS had the same policy in Arizona.



watcher said:


> From the looks of your soil in the pic I don't see why you'd have to use a trencher to put in a phone cable. Most places where there's no rock they use what looks like a large chisel plow. Best pic I could find quickly. Notice the 'hook' on the rear. They just drive that into the soil and drive forward. Puts the cable down as fast as you can drive and there's no trench to fill behind it.


I don't know that the plow would have worked. The soil isn't rocky, but it has a lot of clay. It also freezes & thaws often there. The soil is pretty hard down to the frost line, maybe 3 feet. It's nice and soft below that, but the first 3 feet is tough going, particularly the first 10 inches.

I helped my neighbor dig the post holes for his railroad tie posts with a power auger. The auger couldn't penetrate the soil very well. It liked to just turn in place.


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## Ryan NC (Jan 29, 2009)

They make a heavy duty ditch witch that is mounted on a bobcat like tractor and is easy to operate with just a couple min of instructions from most equipment rental places. Rental prices run about $100 a day here and having never touched one before it should be easy to get it done in 2 days even in heavy clay or rocky soil, it can be done in one day without much problem if you have someone that knows how to run the machine or if you pick up on things fairly quickly.

Digging by hand is insanity today, there are much more productive ways to spend your time other than digging ditches IMHO.


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## norkat (Sep 24, 2020)

meanwhile said:


> I dug such a trench when I was pregnant! Yes, indeed! This is one of those "I walked barefoot to school in the snow, uphill both ways" types of stories:
> 
> The Power company told me they would dig the trench with a "ditch witch" but charge me $380.00 to dig it. This was in 1997. At the time I thought $380.00 was robbing me and I told them I would dig the trench my own self. I did not realize I was pregnant yet or I would not have done it........
> 
> ...


Wait, but you did it with the help of 4 other people?!


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## DW (May 10, 2002)

HIRE!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

This thread is from 2011. I hope the op has the trench finished by now!


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Maybe he's still digging?


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## SpentPenny (Jun 11, 2020)

You don't need a backhoe, just a trencher. Rent one or hire thr guy for $1 per foot.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SpentPenny said:


> You don't need a backhoe, just a trencher. Rent one or hire thr guy for $1 per foot.


I think that project is finished, even if he used a spoon. Or it was not finished at all like a few around here that were in the works in 2011 that either I have forgotten about or really didn't need to be done or my better half forgot she asked me about. The latter is unlikely.


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## RobertDane (Feb 14, 2020)

😉.....No..not crazy. Just over exuberant....Save the sweat for when you have to do some diggin when there's a water leak...And hire the 560$ guy to put in your line...


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