# Anatolians killed the neighbors dog



## JHinCA (Sep 20, 2003)

We have a 2 year old female Anatolian and our tenants have her sister from the same litter. The 2 work together and play together. Our old dog (Anatolian cross ?? mixed breed) died peacefully last week so the pack dynamic is different than it has been.

I just got a phone call from our nicest, favorite neighbor (A) that our dog and our tenant's dog had teamed up to injure their small dog yesterday afternoon so severely he had to be put down. A called this morning because he is out of town and his wife who saw it happen was too upset to talk to anyone, even him, yesterday. 

Our dogs were on yet another neighbors property(B)--yes, that fence needs work and will be dealt with today-- and A's dog joined the Anatolians on B's property. Our old dog who passed away used to play with A's dog and since he was alpha, the youngsters were not hostile toward A's dog.


A's dog was not threatening our sheep or even on our property. While this took place I was at home either inside or outside but occupied and not thinking of the dogs. I saw them shortly after the time frame and they seemed totally normal.

In addition to repairing fence, paying A's vet bill and apologizing profusely, how should we deal with this? We want them to be aggressive towards strange dogs on our property and anything that threatens our sheep and chickens. We do NOT want them to kill harmless small dogs.

One step we are taking is to keep our dog shut up during the day and tenant's dog kenneled at night. Our dog on her own at night gives me some concerned that she may have trouble dealing with coyotes.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

Good fences make good neighbors. I have recently had to advise our nearest neighbor that her little dog was getting too close to the goat pen, and I couldn't be responsible if her little dog got into the pen and started chasing the goats. The fence would certainly keep our LGD in but I'm not too sure it would keep her's out. The fence is 4' high, 4"x6" field fencing tight to the bottom. A small fox can make it through, but he almost lost his tail or even more.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Fix your fence and make sure your dogs don't roam. Since they have been allowed to roam, they think it's all their territory and treat it as such. I"ve heard of people having to keep their LGD separate from their non LGD or the LGD would kill the other dog/s.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Batt said:


> Good fences make good neighbors.


This is the answer. Get one of the shock collar invisible fences too along with your physical fence. LGDs do kill animals. It's just what they do to protect their stock/people/territory. It is not the dog's fault. It is the owner's fault. She was just doing what she was created and bred to do. My GP will kill stray cats if they get within his range. You have to keep them on their own property. You just have to do it because that is what an LGD does.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

JHinCA said:


> I saw them shortly after the time frame and they seemed totally normal.


I saw my male GP switch from goofy, happy, smiling to grabbing a stray cat and shaking it profusely one day. I started screaming at him to drop it, No, and every other thing I could think of. But in a split second, when he saw that cat, he became ferociously mean. I was able to get to him, so that he dropped the cat. I don't know if it lived or not because it went off running. There was blood everywhere. He had it by the neck and had been shaking it. And I don't even want to tell you how many strange cats/ squirrels that he did kill in his years. 
But, the point is, that is what LGD do. If a strange animal gets into their territory, they deal with it. They don't differentiate it's breed. It is just what they do. 
I have never had one that is mean to people, but strange animals are fair game to them. It is just the way they are. Cats that live here are fine. Stray cats seem to be fair game for them. Same with dogs, and other animals. It is just the way that they are. 
We had one about 10yrs ago that took off after a horse that someone was riding across the property. It was scary because she almost knocked the guy off the horse. Needless to say the guy shouldn't have been riding a horse across our property. But he wasn't a threat to anything or anyone. But the horse was a stray animal to Heidi the dog. 
I had one that killed a beagle about 5yrs back that came onto her property. They just "protect" against stray animals. It is what the LGD breeds do. You have to keep them contained. 
They are great with humans, but you don't trust them with stray animals.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

OOPS! Well, good advice about keeping the Anatolians at home. We have no cats here, either. I did see the neighbor's boxer down near our creek *once.* He was moving at a high rate of speed away.

When I had Pyrs, a friend of mine came over with her 4 lb. Yorkie. I didn't see it. but she told me that my Pyr had the Yorkie about half-swallowed. I don't know if she didn't recognize it as a dog, or what?


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## JHinCA (Sep 20, 2003)

Our old LGD who died was not that fierce, but that may have been because he was not purebred and the lab or who-knows-what side of him made him able to tolerate other animals a bit more. I had believed that they would not kill another dog unless it was threatening their flock, but I guess being in "their" territory is all it takes to set them off. This is quite a lesson for us.

We never let visitors bring pet dogs here, but had thought it was because we didn't want our dogs to get the idea that visiting dogs were ok. Didn't know we were saving the lives of the pet dogs!


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I have had my kids bring their pets, and the dogs didn't bother them. I wonder if they know it's ok if someone they know has the dog with them or in their arms?


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## Sparkie (Aug 16, 2012)

Unfortunately Anatolians have somewhat of a reputation for killing neighboring dogs. They see them as a threat to their livestock and it's their style to eliminate threats. A few of the big goat farmers here locally have had trouble like this with their Anatolians. If they want out even pretty good fences won't hold them. I hope you can find a solution to your problem.


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## Judy in IN (Nov 28, 2003)

Years ago, one of the vets in my area brought in an Akbash female to guard his ostriches. When she went into season, the neighbor's Rotti came to visit. She killed him.

They finally had to AI the female. Even the stud Akbash was afraid of her.


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## loli (Aug 14, 2011)

Don't be surprised if you aren't asked to pay for vet bills for the dog. Fix your fences, mine have killed neighbor dogs that have managed to make it into our pastures, but then so has my donkey. I keep a hot wire on my fence to keep the dogs on my side, no hope for dogs that jump into my field because they are not going to get back out. They are just doing what they think is their job.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

loli said:


> *Don't be surprised if you aren't asked to pay for vet bills for the dog.* Fix your fences, mine have killed neighbor dogs that have managed to make it into our pastures, but then so has my donkey. I keep a hot wire on my fence to keep the dogs on my side, no hope for dogs that jump into my field because they are not going to get back out. They are just doing what they think is their job.


Her dogs killed the neighbour's dog *on the neighbour's property*. Why would the OP not expect to be asked to pay for vet bills? But whether the OP is asked to pay for vet bills or not, the honourable thing to do is to pay the vet bill and a generous sum to reimburse for the loss of their pet, even though money can't replace a pet. At least $1000., maybe more depending on whether the dog was pedigreed or not. If an aggressive dog came onto my property and killed one of my pets, I'd be asking for a lot more than just the vet bills -- besides compensation I'd expect those dogs to be put down. The fact they are working dogs does not mean they can go on other people's property and kill their animals. And since they now have the taste, I doubt a fence will keep them in.


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## loli (Aug 14, 2011)

Belfrybat said:


> Her dogs killed the neighbour's dog *on the neighbour's property*. Why would the OP not expect to be asked to pay for vet bills? But whether the OP is asked to pay for vet bills or not, the honourable thing to do is to pay the vet bill and a generous sum to reimburse for the loss of their pet, even though money can't replace a pet. At least $1000., maybe more depending on whether the dog was pedigreed or not. If an aggressive dog came onto my property and killed one of my pets, I'd be asking for a lot more than just the vet bills -- besides compensation I'd expect those dogs to be put down. The fact they are working dogs does not mean they can go on other people's property and kill their animals. And since they now have the taste, I doubt a fence will keep them in.


That is what I said, not to be surprised to pay the vet bills. I had to do that once because I had a yard dog that attacked a dog being walked down the road on a leash by its owners and it was in my yard. I think she should have to pay the vet bills.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

loli said:


> That is what I said, not to be surprised to pay the vet bills. I had to do that once because I had a yard dog that attacked a dog being walked down the road on a leash by its owners and it was in my yard. I think she should have to pay the vet bills.


That's what happened when Daisy1 killed the beagle. We didn't pay the bills. I mean, if they had contained their dog, it wouldn't have been on the property, and Daisy1 couldn't have gotten to it. People should be responsible for their own dogs.

We use the same names over and over, hence we have Daisy 1, Bubby 1, Bandit 1, Daisy 2.........


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

I think he said that his dog killed the other dog on a third party's property.
That can muddy the laws a little. The right thing to do for a favorite neighbor, would be to pay the vet bills, but some states say only half the bills as both dogs were in the wrong being on a third partys property.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

Put up a good fence, your dog gets out, you are liable. Period. 
Pointless to teach it not to bother certain animals, since it needs to protect it's flock from trespassers. 

I used a shock collar on my LGD to not chase our cat, but I would never try to stop her from chasing animals that are not ours. Anything trespassing is free game, but for her to get out and kill, unacceptable. 
Try hotwire, it might not work on adults, but may be worth a shot. But that's not to say, use hot wire and not real fencing behind it.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

Posted twice.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

loli said:


> That is what I said, not to be surprised to pay the vet bills. I had to do that once because I had a yard dog that attacked a dog being walked down the road on a leash by its owners and it was in my yard. I think she should have to pay the vet bills.


That may have been what you meant, but it isn't what you wrote, and folks can only respond to what's written: Don't be surprised if you *aren't* asked to pay for vet bills for the dog. Aren't = are not.


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## JHinCA (Sep 20, 2003)

Lasergrl, you are right--the dogs were all on a different neighbor's property.
A couple of you suggested hot wire in addition to a secure fence. We are going to try that.
Mr "A" says they don't want us to pay the vet bill, but we are going to give them a check for $500 anyway and insist that they cash it. 
The dead dog was a cute little (15 lb?) fluffy stray they took in some years ago, possibly originally belonging to some not-so-nice neighbors farther to the south of us.


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Belfry glad you went back and re-read what mekasmom said, the beagle got into her property and if they had their dog contained her's could not have killed it. In that case I too would refuse to pay anything. 

My Anatolian/Pyr got out recently, my neighbor moved my fence so he and the bucks could get to heated water. My dog was now able to get out and he ran right to that same neighbor's and nailed their dog. 
Their dog is a very sore spot for him, the dang thing escapes to my place, growls at us, dominate pees and has bitten a few people. He has been to my place over a dozen times. Anyway mine got out and bit his dog, I told him I would pay for the vet bill. If it happened durring one of his dog's escapes I would have said too bad. 
I have since fixed my fence to keep my dog contained. 


JH pay for their vet bills and the price of the dog, be super sorry and fix your fence to contain them. If they continue to get out separate them, dogs in pairs and packs behave differently then single dogs. If they are not spayed have that done as well. You don't want them roaming for a male and coming home pregnant with mutt puppies.

I just read your post about the $500, make it cash and not a check, they can't ignore cash in a sympathy card as easy as a check. Or if you are scared to use cash get a teller's or cashier's check, not a money order those can be a pest to cash.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

thaiblue12 said:


> Their dog is a very sore spot for him, the dang thing escapes to my place, growls at us, dominate pees and has bitten a few people. He has been to my place over a dozen times.


Isn't that irritating? There are some people about a half mile down the road who had 7 pit mix mutts that use to run. I hated the things. Back then we had 4LGD, and I wish they had cleaned house on the things when they came here. It only took once and the nasty mutts stayed away though. Finally the dog catcher took all but one of them, and the people got fined really heavily for untagged dogs running at large with no rabies shots. Nasty things. ICK.

About spaying the dog..... They have like 10+ puppies at a time. We had 1 litter. Never again. She had 14 of them. Never again. It took a while to find homes for all of them. I've seen a couple of the puppies that have grown up. They turned out to be beautiful HUGE GPs. But I wouldn't do it again. The litters are huge.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Actually sounds to me like both those dogs need a bit more training as to what their jobs are and where they are to do those jobs. If they are supposed to be guarding livestock, they should be/need to be trained to never leave the pasture/animals they are guarding, night or day. If you are letting them roam around like pet dogs, they ARE going to be trouble. They NEED a specific, definite job and stock to guard.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

You think you can train an LGD not to roam their territory? Anything they see is their territory.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

JHinCA said:


> Lasergrl, you are right--the dogs were all on a different neighbor's property.
> A couple of you suggested hot wire in addition to a secure fence. We are going to try that.
> Mr "A" says they don't want us to pay the vet bill, but we are going to give them a check for $500 anyway and insist that they cash it.
> The dead dog was a cute little (15 lb?) fluffy stray they took in some years ago, possibly originally belonging to some not-so-nice neighbors farther to the south of us.


You are special for being willing to do that. I read the initial post to mean your dogs were on the neighbours property, not that they ALL were on a third property. So what I said about putting your dogs down doesn't apply since the other owners were at fault also. I've lost too many pets to marauding dogs, I have no patience with them any more. Any dog that comes onto my property disappears if I'm able to get to the gun in time, even if they are not (yet) attacking mine.


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## JHinCA (Sep 20, 2003)

Belfrybat--They are really, really good neighbors since all of our grandparents' day and we want to keep it that way.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

YOU are responible for what your dog does .those are powerful gaurd dogs and shoud not EVER should they be allowed off your property.it should be common knowlege that any other dog that is on your property is going to be killed by your dog and humans are in danger also . This IS the type of dog you have that is the reason it is alive and has been bred to do this for hundreds of years.if this is a problem you better keep it kenneled or fix the fence to keep it in there is no excuse .if you wanted a dog to play with the neabours pets you should hav got a poddle. A andiloshion shepard is not a toy its a livestock protecter and it kills whatever it percevies as a threat or dies trying .plain and simple be glad the neabour lady did'nt try to break up the fight and get tore up . With great power comes great responsibility .
Please excuse me for being so blunt but you need to cover your butt and get control over your gaurd dog before somthing worse happens .


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## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

mekasmom said:


> Isn't that irritating?


Yes it is super irritating! It would be less so if he wasn't so aggressive toward people. He tore my jacket once trying to bite me, I told the neighbor he gets my skin, I get your dog as a throw rug because I will put him down. 





arnie said:


> YOU are responible for what your dog does .those are powerful gaurd dogs and shoud not EVER should they be allowed off your property.it should be common knowlege that any other dog that is on your property is going to be killed by your dog and humans are in danger also . This IS the type of dog you have that is the reason it is alive and has been bred to do this for hundreds of years.if this is a problem you better keep it kenneled or fix the fence to keep it in there is no excuse .if you wanted a dog to play with the neabours pets you should hav got a poddle. A andiloshion shepard is not a toy its a livestock protecter and it kills whatever it percevies as a threat or dies trying .plain and simple be glad the neabour lady did'nt try to break up the fight and get tore up . With great power comes great responsibility .
> Please excuse me for being so blunt but you need to cover your butt and get control over your gaurd dog before somthing worse happens .


This is hard to read but they are not *guard* dogs, they are *guardian* dogs. Their job is to stay with the herd and protect them from predators. 
Mine live with farm cats and they better not touch them, nor go after people who come to buy goats. They chase off coyotes, they have chased off an intact male lab who roams around. They did not kill him, they body slammed him and told him to get lost. 

I can and have broken up fights, over food or a dead animal one of them has- one push, not kick to their side and I yell Hey or No and it is done. If they were in the process of chasing off or attacking a coyote I an not under the illusion I could say or do anything to stop that, nor would I try to. 

My neighbor had a purebred Anatolian and he loved other dogs more then people or treats, he would come by my house to play with my dog, go to the other neighbor and walk with him and his dog. He never attacked them and prefered dogs to humans. 

It is how you raise them, treat them and teach them. Have you ever owned and raised one? 

Every dog is different, every dog is raised differently. Mine are not perfect and I am not under the assumption that they are, some days I want to strangle them both. You are making sweeping statements about an entire breed, you act like any and all Anatolians who get loose are killers of neighborhood dogs. Unfair and not true to the entire breed.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I just wanted to mention that LGDs usually like humans. It's animals/predators that they don't like. They are wonderful with small children, or all children, and almost all people. I suppose if a "bad" person came and tried to attack their flock or their people they would choose to deal with it. But they aren't marauding terrors that go around killing people. They just aren't like that.


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## Saffy (May 18, 2007)

Personally I would think that the vet bills should be paid my the two owners of the dogs that attacked, I also think that you should offer to replace the dog that was killed. Not only do they have vet bills but the victim has no pet either. Since your dogs were in error, by leaving your property, I would pay both the vet bill and replace the small dog. Sounds like a very expensive lesson to learn.


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## JHinCA (Sep 20, 2003)

Here are some quotes taken from my original post:



JHinCA said:


> ..................
> Our dogs were on yet another neighbors property(B)--yes, that fence needs work and will be dealt with today-- and A's dog joined the Anatolians on B's property (snip)...
> In addition to repairing fence, paying A's vet bill and apologizing profusely, how should we deal with this?(snip)..
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice.


Many thanks to those who have given helpful suggestions, insights into LGD behavior and stories from their own experience.

Some others might like to read the original post before responding

Jean


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

anatolians will guard whatever they can get too. tough fencing that is high enough that they can't jump it is important. I've had them for years and if they get out off the pasture, they get in trouble. I had a female who could jump any fence and adopted my neighbor's farm and the other neighbor's farm (a total of about 1,000 acres). While I was forunate the she never killed anyone's dog, I'd get phone calls when she had my neighbor's border collies cornered. I ended her roaming with two strands of hot wire on the top. I have no problem with my dogs killing something that doesn't belong in the pasture, but they need to stay home to do that.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Besides fixing the fence and paying the vet bill and apologizing, I would tell then that when they were ready, you would pay for the adoption of a new (comparable) dog, you may want to wait a couple weeks on that til things calm down.


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## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Sorry, I'm guilty of reading and not comprehending. I'm so used to people posting problems but then wonder how to teach their dog to stay home or something like that. So, my head just went there. 

You are a very responsible owner. We should read more about people taking responsibility for what their dogs do instead of hearing from the other people complaining about a neighbor's dog and how the neighbor won't do anything about it.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Just going to throw this out there, and maybe it will make a difference to a dog and family someday, or maybe I'll get really hammered for it. What if the lgd was introduced to the non threatening neighbors' dogs, like they came over to visit. Maybe they would hang out in the sheep field with a few people and talk for a while. You could start out on leash if you aren't sure of your control over the dogs. At the very least it will give you some insight as to what your dog is going to do if that dog comes over. In some areas where the dogs really have to be aggressive maybe it wouldn't work, but some it might not. I generally have strange dogs here working the sheep on a regular basis and the lgds learn to tolerate it. They also seem to figure out who is a threat and who isn't by their actions and the sheep. Even though the neighbor's dog isn't supposed to be in the pasture, and the lgd isn't supposed to be off his farm, things can still happen. Dogs are great escape artists. Maybe it would be good to prepare in case. At the least it would show you really care about the neighbors and their family along with the dog. 
In the meantime for the op's dogs, I wouldn't use them together for the time being. Monitor the behaviors of each individually and you might find one is more of an aggressor or wanderer and the other not so much. I totally agree with better fencing. The dogs need to stay with their livestock.


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## JHinCA (Sep 20, 2003)

DaniR-- you and your very reasonable suggestions were not what I was referring to.
mnn--I like your idea. Will see how it feels after some time.
wendle--Interesting thought, to introduce the lgds to dogs they may encounter who are KNOWN to be no threat. As you suggest, we are keeping the dogs separated, possible permanently.


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## CornerstoneAcre (Mar 10, 2011)

> Mekasmom: just wanted to mention that LGDs usually like humans. It's animals/predators that they don't like. They are wonderful with small children, or all children, and almost all people. I suppose if a "bad" person came and tried to attack their flock or their people they would choose to deal with it. But they aren't marauding terrors that go around killing people. They just aren't like that. 01/14/13 10:32 AMmekasmomI just wanted to mention that LGDs usually like humans. It's animals/predators that they don't like. They are wonderful with small children, or all children, and almost all people. I suppose if a "bad" person came and tried to attack their flock or their people they would choose to deal with it. But they aren't marauding terrors that go around killing people. They just aren't like that. 01/14/13 10:32 AMmekasmomI just wanted to mention that LGDs usually like humans. It's animals/predators that they don't like. They are wonderful with small children, or all children, and almost all people. I suppose if a "bad" person came and tried to attack their flock or their people they would choose to deal with it. But they aren't marauding terrors that go around killing people. They just aren't like that.


I was under the impression that it is mostly Pyrs that fit that bill and that some such as the Anatolian and the Akbash, have a tendancy to be more aggressive? I am NOT dogging (no pun intended) any breed, just it seems that is what I read a lot of while looking for our perfect guardians. I now have Pyrs and yes I love love love them!! I find that if somebody (human only) comes to the gate those dogs don't care who it is....they are "friend". Which is fine by me as no "bad guys" can get to my gate without me knowing. However if somebody (even me) goes along the fenceline all bets are off!! They are ferocious!! (Well they will stop once they realize it's ME, but not for anybody else). I seriously don't know what they would do if a predator came in - 2 legged or otherwise - any other way than the gate. I DO know they kill birds and rabbits though!!

To the OP - I believe you are doing the right thing and taking the right steps to prevent further trouble. Perhaps if they flat out won't take the money, you can donate to a shelter in their name and/or pay for the cost of a shelter dog for them to choose when they are ready to replace their dog. Hard to say no when something is already paid for!!!


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Akbash do tend to be more human aggressive. But they don't go around terrorizing strangers off their property. I don't think Anatolians are that bad compared to Akbash.
I think the more exotic breeds can be more aggressive too, but those are rarer. Maremma aren't overly mean at all either.


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## Threeinhub (Dec 27, 2012)

I wouldn't give a check, give cash or make a $500 donation in the dogs name, or buy a $500 gift, etc. 

Honestly, I'd be insisting the dogs be euthanized had it been mine they killed. I suggest you make it beyond clear that this will never ever ever happen again and consider what the most radical precautions you would be willing to do vs. having the dogs euth'd - and do that.




JHinCA said:


> Lasergrl, you are right--the dogs were all on a different neighbor's property.
> A couple of you suggested hot wire in addition to a secure fence. We are going to try that.
> Mr "A" says they don't want us to pay the vet bill, but we are going to give them a check for $500 anyway and insist that they cash it.
> The dead dog was a cute little (15 lb?) fluffy stray they took in some years ago, possibly originally belonging to some not-so-nice neighbors farther to the south of us.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

You know my current LGD is great. He never gets out and if another animal gets in his territory he just follows it and as long as it shows no signs of aggression he doesn't do anything.

However with the escaping other problems I've had with some of the others I had, as well as reading the problems people here have generally I honestly think it's cheaper to put your effort into really good fencing.

I'd say the majority of LGD's of people I know personally do not stay with their livestock and cause them more grief and expense than protection.


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Our Pyr is very territorial. I suggest a strong hot wire between your property and the neighboring property. Your dog is not to blame, that is what they were bred for. You are the owner, so must be the responsible party.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

goatlady said:


> Actually sounds to me like both those dogs need a bit more training as to what their jobs are and where they are to do those jobs. If they are supposed to be guarding livestock, they should be/need to be trained to never leave the pasture/animals they are guarding, night or day. If you are letting them roam around like pet dogs, they ARE going to be trouble. They NEED a specific, definite job and stock to guard.


Anatolians are different from other LGD breeds, such as GPs or Marammas.

The white-coated LGDs stay with their flocks/herds and if a predator approaches, they attack the predator.

Anatolians stake out a "territory" that has a center point of their flock/herd, and they patrol that territory and kill everything in it that THEY believe is a threat to their flock. That territory can be a half a mile in diameter.

In other words, white-coats chase of predators they see, and Anatolians simply clear the area of any predators. Basically, Anatolians are hunting dogs that are specifically bred to hunt things that might harm their livestock.

The more things they think of as "their livestock", the more strange carnivores will end up dying in their territory. Anatolians that think they should protect the chickens, rather than just tolerate them, tend to kill stray cats.

And God forbid an Anatolian gets the idea that something odd is a threat. Mine won't go after the neighborhood dogs if he gets out, as he doesn't consider them a threat unless they ACTIVELY try to chase his livestock...and then he just beats them up, as if they were badly behaving pack members (although he HAS killed coyotes and bobcats), but since the horses spook every time one of those large stock trailers rattles down the side road, he has decided that they must be The Enemy. He got out once when one went down the road and was trying to *kill* that stock trailer, grabbing and trying to shake the metal and biting at the tires. 

Neighbor got out of the truck and just stood next to me (I had come out to get him) and we both shook our heads in disbelief.

"Ya think he knows it isn't alive?" My neighbor asked.

"I'm not sure he cares; he just knows it scares his horses."

"Too bad he's fixed. I could put a pup of his in with my cows."

"Seen yer cattle scatter at the crop dusters...might be high entertainment to watch one of them try to chase down a duster."

Anatolian finally decided that since the thing wasn't moving, it might be dead and I could bring him in and let the neighbor go on his way.


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## JHinCA (Sep 20, 2003)

CaliannG--Guess that is the difference between "soft" style LGDs and "hard" style I have heard people talk about? Knew that GP were considered soft and Antolians not, but had not really got it til you put it into words.
Thanks.


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## BobbyB (Apr 6, 2009)

CaliannG said:


> Anatolians are different from other LGD breeds, such as GPs or Marammas.
> 
> The white-coated LGDs stay with their flocks/herds and if a predator approaches, they attack the predator.
> 
> ...


A few years back, we had a guy come in the house about 2 AM. We were gone but my son was here and racked his pump shotgun and put the guy in high gear.

I talked to a friend that makes studying dogs and dog habits a hobby and told her I wanted a dog that would leave anything but tennis shoes if he caught an intruder here. 

She said to get an Anatolian and went on to say about the same things you just said.

The only reason I didnt get one was because I couldnt find any that were reasonably priced at the time. I dont mind spending the cash on what I want, but the pups I did find were outrageously priced. So I wnet anoither direction in yard dogs. 

But Id still like to have one.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I am planning on getting an Anatolian; and yes I know most of the information people share tells me a female would not be wise for our little 6 acres. However, I've been around dogs all my life and I have no doubt their personal characteristics can be an asset if the owner understands (and works with) them.

Our little 6 acres is totally fenced and I will be taking that dog (puppy) on walks all around the inside parameter daily...along with the goats and my other dog(s), chickens/guineas/geese. There is a neighbor who has a dog that roams near one side of our fencing; but I intend on introducing this pup to that dog frequently. I still believe an Anatolian can be trained to stay on their own property and guard what they are instructed to guard. (I know some will bash me for this and talk about my ignorance. Still, I will not stray from my belief that a dog's behavior..even an Anatolian's..is dependant on how much time/training the owner gives them. I certainly intend on finding out!)


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

motdaugrnds, , I don't know how familiar you are with training dogs. Anatolians can be trained.....but they can't be trained using the same techniques used on normal dogs.

When mine isn't "patrolling", he is with his flock. If I am out and about, he is super-glued to *me*. I had to work for three years to get that level of trust and love from him.

He will *consciously* decide to disobey me. If I tell him to come, and he thinks something should be checked out, he will, literally, think about it and decide whether it REALLY needs to be checked out, or if he should just come to me. If he decides he isn't going to listen to me, he does it unashamedly. 

He loves me and he trusts me...God forbid something should threaten me while he is around, because all that will be left is perhaps toenails, and then he will come up to me, grinning, with blood still dripping off of him. But still, he is his own creature and he decides what he will or will not do. 

I am not saying an Anatolian cannot accept neighbor dogs....mine certainly will. But HE made the decision that the neighbor's dog were not a threat to his goats, and that if they started acting up, he could discipline them and they would stop it.

It took a LONG time for him to decide that horses could be okay after we had one that thought "toss the smaller critters" was a fun game, and he still doesn't like it if the horses feel frisky and start running or jumping....but at least he doesn't see them as a threat to his goats anymore and has accepted the two that I have as "creatures under protection".

They are .....different. I've never had a dog like my Anatolian, and I have had dogs all of my life. However, he is worth it.

Good luck with yours!


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Caliann, I do appreciate your information. Rest assured I am not at all naive about training dogs who think for themselves. Those are the types of dogs I prefer and have worked with the most. Oh yes, they do require training many other types of dogs do not need; but in my mind, that is what makes them more valuable for my homestead.

Example: My favorite dog (a "mut" that looked like anatolian but definately had lab, chow and shephard in it) was just such a dog. She died of old age quite a few years ago and I still miss her. To see her "think" for herself was such a joy whether it be to protect the goats from what she deemed was threatening them or protect me from some human action she saw threatening, i.e. just the UPS man reaching his hand thru my gate to help me fasten that gate...That man had already been on the property carrying a large package for me with no problems at all from this dog. But once he was outside the gate, that arm would have come off if he hadn't pulled it back quickly.

I firmly believe an Anatolian can be "friendly" with other animals AND still be protective of what they consider their charge. Each simply...cannot believe I said "simply"...ROFL...needs to be properly introduced to ............................AND THAT ? needs to respect the Anatolian!


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

motdaugrnds said:


> .
> 
> I firmly believe an Anatolian can be "friendly" with other animals AND still be protective of what they consider their charge. Each simply...cannot believe I said "simply"...ROFL...needs to be properly introduced to ............................AND THAT ? needs to respect the Anatolian!


I know they can be "friendly" with other animals and still be protective of their flock. Here's a picture of my older lgd and a border collie that belongs to somebody else. The lady in the picture was over for some sheepdog training. You can see how concerned Zeus is over the whole deal. This same dog protects my flock with zero losses. He knows the difference, and knows his job. He is not an exception. I have been to other farms who also utilize border collies and use various breeds of lgds on a regular basis. Zeus is Anatolian/Pyr.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

CaliannG said:


> "Seen yer cattle scatter at the crop dusters...might be high entertainment to watch one of them try to chase down a duster."


My 5 year old Anatolian Cricket taught my other dogs to run under flying hawks and bark, keeping them from striking the chickens. She's a smart girl, taught the same behavior to my great pyr and a our house dog. FUNNY when a small plane or once a helicopter fly over. It might fly over~ but it won't be landing on my property as far as they are concerned. Crickets daughter though~ she watches the other dogs and run and bark....she looks everywhere for what they are after. Poor dumb girl never looks UP....she never figures out what everyone is so het up about!


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## Monica33 (Jul 11, 2012)

JHinCA said:


> We want them to be aggressive towards strange dogs on our property and anything that threatens our sheep and chickens. We do NOT want them to kill harmless small dogs.
> 
> One step we are taking is to keep our dog shut up during the day and tenant's dog kenneled at night. Our dog on her own at night gives me some concerned that she may have trouble dealing with coyotes.


A keep them on your property only! Where you let her go is her territory as far as she is concerned.

Your tenants should have their own yard fenced securely for their dog. If you choose to have a gate in between the two for the 'sister dogs' that's up to you, if and when you wish them to mingle. You may not want future tenants dogs with your stock.

They will and should take after/confront anything animal or strange person that comes into their yard which includes the stock areas. That is their job.
If you want a dog that isn't going to attack small dogs get a different breed of dog and make him a pet, not a LGD.

Keeping your dog shut up during the day away from her stock is going to confuse and worry her. She should be with them all the time. Your dog should not have any issues dealing with coyotes on her own but I would have both dogs out at night with the stock.

Allowing them to roam is looking to get them shot. I would rather keep my dogs and do what is needed to keep them home. 
Other dogs large or small need to be kept home by their owners, that part is it not your responsibility. 
Sad to see dead pets, sadder to see a LGD dead doing her job, saddest to see dead stock!


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Wendle, your Zeus is the exact image of the dog I was talking about above. (Her name was Apache.) She literally trained my fullblood German Shephard, Cherokee to guard the homestead. After Apache died, Cherokee would lay on top of the hill watching the goat herd. (The only problem I had with Cherokee was that she considered "natural behavior of breeding" as something she would not tolerate! My buck hit her hard when she told him to stop mounting a doe; yet that buck was the very same Cherokee had raised from its birth and would lay with on top of the hill.)

Sure wish I still had the picture I took of those two; but my hard drive went bad and we lost all our files. 

Did find this picture that I had placed on photobucket: (Cherokee turned out to be an Alpha female; so I was never able to get her bred. She died last year after having been bitten by a moccasin.  )


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

It is interesting how dogs will help train other dogs. Zeus doesn't allow roughing up of his girls. He will get agitated then bump, and mouth the other dog. He seems to have pretty good bite inhibition though. He has helped train a few border collies in that he will get on them a bit if they are getting a little too happy on the sheep. I think dogs are quite a bit smarter than we give them credit for.


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