# Buck has stiff hind legs



## TheBanditQueen (Jun 2, 2013)

I have a Nigerian Dwarf buck, just over 12 months old. His hind legs seem to be stiff. He appears otherwise very healthy, in excellent condition, all vital signs and functions are apparently normal. About 6 weeks ago, one day he hunched up and looked like he was trying to poop, but couldn't. But after that it went back to perfectly normal. No other problems or previous illnesses since I've had him. He walks and runs, just slower than the other goats, and his hind legs don't bend very much. They bend just fine when he lies down though, and he has no trouble getting up and down. (He also has no trouble climbing through fences.)

He was in with a Pygmy goat that would ram him pretty good (not here anymore). I wonder if he got injured somehow, or if it is a conformation issue like I used to see in 4-H judging. Any other ideas?


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Have you checked his hooves? There may be some debris in there, even though he walks/runs.

I also wonder if he didn't take a good hit from that pygmy. You could maybe try some banamine and dex to see if it resolves...

Don't have any other ideas at the moment, but perhaps more experienced goat folk will chime in.


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## TheBanditQueen (Jun 2, 2013)

Thank you Pony!! I will check his feet. I didn't think of that.

I feel bad for not protecting him sooner in any case, because he is disbudded and the Pygmy was horned. It wasn't bad when they were littler, but the Pygmy got taller than the buck and was an awful bully. They would go at it ferociously. But he's gone now, and the buck is absolutely, positively, and gleefully dominant over our other Pygmy (smaller and timid), even though he moves slower.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Make sure you are feeding a balance of calcium and phosphorous so that he doesn't get urinary calculi. They often hunch and walk weird when in pain from those.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

TheBanditQueen said:


> Thank you Pony!! I will check his feet. I didn't think of that.
> 
> I feel bad for not protecting him sooner in any case, because he is disbudded and the Pygmy was horned. It wasn't bad when they were littler, but the Pygmy got taller than the buck and was an awful bully. They would go at it ferociously. But he's gone now, and the buck is absolutely, positively, and gleefully dominant over our other Pygmy (smaller and timid), even though he moves slower.


Not much you can do about it, really. Goats are, after all, goats, and they will act like it.

Our little Nigerian wether has to go because, for whatever reason, he has discovered his horns and is using them willy-nilly. Not good when the rest of the herd is disbudded.


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## TheBanditQueen (Jun 2, 2013)

Yep, that is true. It's fun to watch them spar when they are just playing though.

Alice, could that be gotten from a mineral block?


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Urinary Calculi is caused by an imbalance of calcium and phosphorus. Not a mineral block. Are you feeding him grain?
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/urinarycalculi06.html


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## Doug Hodges (Jul 22, 2013)

Minelson said:


> Urinary Calculi is caused by an imbalance of calcium and phosphorus. Not a mineral block. Are you feeding him grain?
> http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/urinarycalculi06.html


I think she meant, can the goat get what it needs from a mineral block. But I was wrong once before......................I think................


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## TheBanditQueen (Jun 2, 2013)

Doug Hodges said:


> I think she meant, can the goat get what it needs from a mineral block. But I was wrong once before......................I think................


Haha! Yes, I did mean "can the goat get the needed calcium and phosphorus from a mineral block/mix or something similar".  Sorry for the confusion.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

No...I actually don't think goats can get enough of anything from a block so I give loose minerals  
Usually male goats that are fed grain have a higher phos level. That is why a lot of people don't feed male goats any grain at all, or a feed with ammonium chloride in it, or a supplement of ammonium chloride as a preventative. 
Urinary Calculi is very painful and an emergency. Anyone who has male goats should have ammonium chloride on hand. It's cheap...but hard to find in an emergency.


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## TheBanditQueen (Jun 2, 2013)

Minelson said:


> No...I actually don't think goats can get enough of anything from a block so I give loose minerals
> Usually male goats that are fed grain have a higher phos level. That is why a lot of people don't feed male goats any grain at all, or a feed with ammonium chloride in it, or a supplement of ammonium chloride as a preventative.
> Urinary Calculi is very painful and an emergency. Anyone who has male goats should have ammonium chloride on hand. It's cheap...but hard to find in an emergency.


I was just now researching that online, and in a couple places it said that blocks aren't as good as loose. I gave mine a block a few months ago, and they gobbled at it with their teeth (didn't hurt them at all). But maybe loose is better. Right now none of my goats get grain except handfuls at treat time. They have large pastures with lots of browse, and they are all sleek as can be.

Do you feed ammonium chloride regularly as a preventative, and also give it as a treatment? How do you administer it? Curious how you do it with your own critters.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I top dress the buck's feed with a teaspoon of ammonium chloride per day for two bucks.


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I make dosage balls with ammonium chloride using rolled oats or peanut butter, slippery elm bark. Alice's way is much easier but it wouldn't work for the way I feed. 
Mine would only "chew" or demolish a block if it had molasses in it. I am a firm believer in "if it's not broke don't fix it" though so if that is what is working for you, and you don't see any copper deficiency then don't change it


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## TheBanditQueen (Jun 2, 2013)

That sounds pretty straightforward.

Alice, do you do that as a treatment? Or for 2 weeks every so often?

Minelson...wait...a copper deficiency?  Is that related to the ammonium chloride/urinary calculi thing? Or something different to prevent? How do I tell if they have a deficiency?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I think Minelson had a brain fart. 

Copper is different.

I do the ammonium chloride most days....when I remember.  I lost a buck to urinary calculi, and I don't want it to happen again.


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

I haven't lost any males to UC think that is mainly because I read about preventative here. I have faithfully offered baking soda free choice, apple cider vinegar in the water at least once a week, during spring, summer, and early fall the boys do not get grained. Starting late fall (breeding time here) I start graining a little and increase slightly during winter to help fight the cold. But always make sure they are getting feed with AC or other stuff above. Honestly for the boys I feed meat goat ration because it also has thiamin for muscle development, and AC.


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## TheBanditQueen (Jun 2, 2013)

Aha. Fascinating! So prevention is sort of like the apple a day thing, for goats, I guess?


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Nope..no brain fart.....this time! lol! :teehee: More like a thread drift when giving mineral blocks came up. Op uses a mineral block and said that her herd looks great and I was just stating that as long as she is seeing no signs of a copper deficiency then keep using it as opposed to switching to loose minerals. Copper is the more common mineral that seems to come up as being deficient.


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## TheBanditQueen (Jun 2, 2013)

Ah, I see. Whew! Makes me feel better. 

Right now they don't get it free choice, however...I left it out for a while, and then the horses started playing with it, so I picked it up, and am figuring out another way to put it out hidden from all but the goats. Haha. But they do look good. Shiny healthy coats, bright eyes, clean noses, lots of energy.

I guess we did drift off the original topic. Sorry 'bout that.


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## Nancy_in_GA (Oct 20, 2004)

Do you have deer in your pastures? If so, it could possibly be deer worm. But it should have gotten progressively worse.


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## TheBanditQueen (Jun 2, 2013)

Yikes...deer in the pastures are bad?  Our neighbor feeds all the deer in the county, which not only makes them hang around and eat up the browse I need for my animals but also leads to more deer-car accidents (grumble). They jump in and out of our pasture all the time. We have no way to keep them out.

But thankfully the buck hasn't shown any signs of a progressive-type problem and none of the others have any problems at all.


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