# Officer flips and drags student.



## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/us/south-carolina-school-arrest-video/index.html



> The video shows a South Carolina school resource officer standing over a student, seated at her desk. He puts his arm near her neck, then yanks her backward. The desk tips over and the student crashes onto the floor.
> 
> The uniformed officer doesn't let go, sharply tugging the student toward the front of the classroom. She flies out of her desk and slides several feet across the floor.
> 
> "Give me your hands," the officer says.


The media is in an outrage. But the whole story would be interesting to know. She was told to get up and leave the room, obviously she must have been disruptive, She refused, the officer was called to remove the child from the room. She apparently still refused, so he removed her. From what my kids have said while they were in school, kids like this probably deserved this treatment. I couldn't be a teacher, I'd be tossing kids down flights of steps if they got mouthy with me. Children aren't disciplined by parents anymore so some one has to do it, or society will disintegrate. So in short I defend this officer. The girl wasn't hurt, and I have found theatrics works well when disciplining. I bet no other kid will back talk this officer again.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Blm...


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

That officer has also been in trouble twice before for excessive use of force... 

Just sayin....


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

It's obvious asking nicely wasn't going to get the desired results.
Maybe she wants an invitation to the White House.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

She was resisting,what does anyone expect.She had a desk/chair and was useing it as some sort of cover. I guess the office could have just dragged her into the hallway with the furnature. Notice the child to the side, bored, like it is an everyday happening.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

simi-steading said:


> That officer has also been in trouble twice before for excessive use of force...
> 
> Just sayin....


The report I just heard on TV said one charge of "excessive force" was filed in 2007 and a jury found him not guilty


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Sorry but resource officers at a school are NOT there to be enforcers for teachers who can't handle their students. They aren't the "school bouncers", they are supposed to protect the students from outside threats and keep drugs out of the school. So this officer should have never been called to the classroom in the first place, it wasn't a police matter.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MO_cows said:


> Sorry but resource officers at a school are NOT there to be enforcers for teachers who can't handle their students. They aren't the "school bouncers", they are supposed to protect the students from outside threats and keep drugs out of the school. So this officer should have never been called to the classroom in the first place, *it wasn't a police matter.*


It became one when she refused to leave.

A "Resource officer" is just a regular LEO like all the rest, that happens to be assigned to work at a school.


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## Hoosier Cowboy (Sep 8, 2014)

With out knowing the whole story it's impossible to jump to a honest and fair judgment. Just going by the video it looks way excessive but we don't know by just video. As far as the officer having a previous "excessive force" complaint that doesn't mean much either these days. I'll hold judgment until or if we find out more facts.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Worked with troubled kids for 2 years. The girl was intimidated enough at that point, she didn't want a fight. She said "I don't know you." To me, being trained to have patience even with kids who are as likely to wipe their defecation on your face as listen to you, that was an opportunity to talk her into walking out on her own and give her assurances. "I'm not going to hurt you, are you going to hurt me?" I don't know the situation, but I have high confidence that I could have walked her out based on her demeanor. If she was acting out, there is a good chance that she has been abused or hurt, and by putting his hands on her while she was in a fearful state, he pretty much guaranteed that she was going to lock up. He showed no patience. He didn't want to do that, he just wanted to be obeyed. It's obvious that he threw her far more forcefully than he needed to, and I think it's obvious to any objective, rational human being why he did it.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Hoosier Cowboy said:


> With out knowing the whole story it's impossible to jump to a honest and fair judgment. Just going by the video it looks way excessive but we don't know by just video. As far as the officer having a previous "excessive force" complaint that doesn't mean much either these days. I'll hold judgment until or if we find out more facts.


The man is over 200 pounds. She looks about 100 at best. It really doesn't matter what happened up to that point, he was more forceful than he needed to be, and he did it because he was angry, and he was angry because he doesn't like it when people don't listen him.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

Where I went to school, the teacher would have done this, no questions asked. The only thing the parent would have said was "what did you do to make the teacher hit you?". I've seen way, way worse than that story, and in all but one occasion it was well deserved.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Wistco, no it is not obvious why he did it. So do tell, why?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Miss Kay said:


> Wistco, no it is not obvious why he did it. So do tell, why?


Anger.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I agree that we don't know the issues but, even though the students were close to 18 if not over it, it does raise concerns. Especially when there was no physical assault on the student's part.. But the DOJ has rushed into it now simply based on race I suppose. Why they think they should not give a chance for the school to resolve it, I don't know.

I also do not think it is fair to charge the teacher with an inability to control the class based on this video. So far there are no facts to judge. Although as usual, that hardly slows the judgements at all. Some of those children are big, violent and totally disrespectful.
In anycase, what is to be done with a disruptive student who won't cooperate?? Just like what is to be done with people the police want to take into custody but won't cooperate? Do these people get to choose what everyone else has to tolerate?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wiscto said:


> Anger.


Patience exhausted?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

I can't get the Op's video to open but have watched several other videos. This student refused to leave the classroom at least 3 times. When she refused the officer, he told her he was going to get her up and approached her. At that point she pushed him away and it escalated from there.

What other options should have been used as it was obvious she had no intention of complying.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It became one when she refused to leave.
> 
> A "Resource officer" is just a regular LEO like all the rest, that happens to be assigned to work at a school.


Is it in the criminal code that not obeying your teacher is a crime? 

This was a matter for the teacher, the principal and the parents. Not the cops. A kid threatening bodily harm to the other students or the teacher, sure, call in the cop. But sulling up and refusing to get out of your chair, is not a risk to anything but the teacher's pride. 

But because the officer was there on site, the teacher defaulted on their responsibility to control their classroom and called him in. I understand how difficult kids can be to deal with, but it comes with the job. 

Now you have a kid that learned the wrong lesson, a cop that will be drug thru the knothole and might lose his career, etc.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

wiscto:

methinks you are confusing assumptions with facts....

"He was angry and he was angry because he didn't like it when people didn't listen to him."

"there is a good chance she has been abused or hurt"

"while she was in a fearful state"

"the girl was intimidated enough at that point"


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I'd like to know what happened before officer Friendly did the extraction. He could have just shoved her out the door while she sat in the chair. I would bet if he returns to duty, students won't be slow about complying with his instructions.

I wonder what the teacher thought. They didn't seem to react.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Let's dig into HER past too.
They are going to report every fart this cop has let since he was born.
Let's see if she is the 'angel' the media is hyping up OR if she is insobordinate everywhere she goes......


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Anger, really. I didn't see anger. He wasn't screaming, cursing, and once he had her on the ground he matter of fact like told her to put her hands behind her back. Have you ever seen the show Cops? Once a person refuses to follow direction (apparently the teacher and the cop asked her to leave) then they have to put hands on. Once you touch them cops are trained to move fast and decisively to get the job done before a fight ensues. That's what I saw. Could it have been handled differently? Maybe but then hindsight is always 20/20!


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Darren said:


> I'd like to know what happened before officer Friendly did the extraction. He could have just shoved her out the door while she sat in the chair. I would bet if he returns to duty, students won't be slow about complying with his instructions.
> 
> I wonder what the teacher thought. They didn't seem to react.


That's what I wondered, too, why didn't they just pick her up chair and all, take her to principal's office and make a spectacle of her, embarrass her? She's an obnoxious kid, not one of America's Most Wanted. 

Even though we could be paddled with a modified 2 X 6 when I was in school, the staff seemed like they understood the psychology of kids very well and it was seldom used. 

I had one high school teacher who declared if he couldn't build a strong mind - he would build a strong body, and his punishment of choice was pushups. "Drop and give me 10!" Equal opportunity, he gave them to girls, too. Refuse the pushups, then it's the principal, your parents get called, etc. So everyone I ever saw took the exercise and got on with their life.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I wonder if she got her invite to the White House yet


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

I would think picking up the chair w/ the child in it is a bad idea. He doesn't have ready access to his weapon, and she might.....
Not to mention he could hurt himself and her.

She should have got her smart (censored) up when told the first time.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> Patience exhausted?


That's the same thing as anger. I had a kid urinate on the floor and wipe it on my leg while I was restraining another kid. I'm 220 pounds and stronger than I look. I didn't throw anyone through the air. I've seen people in less stressful situations do worse. I've been in worse situations and done a thousand times better than this guy.



Wolf mom said:


> wiscto:
> 
> methinks you are confusing assumptions with facts....
> 
> ...


1. I've seen it before. It was evident in the fact that he felt the need to toss her like a rag doll. You think he doesn't know his strength? I'd say he wanted HER to know his strength. And yes, I am going to claim that I read his personality like a book in that exchange. I've been there. I know guys like him. I can read the body language. I can read the tone of voice. I can sense that need for control and anger at being resisted a MILE away. Have you been there? Have you lived it? No? I have... Not only could I probably have talked her into walking on her own, I would say that if I failed to do that, I could have handled her without throwing her around. Why? Because I have.

2. That isn't assumption. I stated there was a chance. And that statement is based on statistics, experience with children and teens who act out, and training. You treat troubled kids as if something might be wrong with their home life, because it very well could be.

3. 200+ pound cop saying, "Or am I going to make you?" Believe me, she was afraid. She may have wanted to fight when it all started... But she was also afraid. Again, training and experience here on my side. How about you?

4. She was. Her "I don't know you" was about as committed as Hillary Clinton's commitment to a clean campaign. Again.... Experience and training. I dealt with it for two years. She was scared of him, she was just being obstinate because she has a pattern of behavior.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

wiscto said:


> That's the same thing as anger. I had a kid urinate on the floor and wipe it on my leg while I was restraining another kid. I'm 220 pounds and stronger than I look. I didn't throw anyone through the air. I've seen people in less stressful situations do worse. I've been in worse situations and done a thousand times better than this guy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


its obvious that her particular "pattern of behavior" is unacceptable. Perhaps she should seek more acceptable patterns.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MO_cows said:


> *Is it in the criminal code that not obeying your teacher is a crime? *
> 
> This was a matter for the teacher, the principal and the parents. Not the cops. A kid threatening bodily harm to the other students or the teacher, sure, call in the cop. But sulling up and refusing to get out of your chair, is not a risk to anything but the teacher's pride.
> 
> ...


It must be, since she was arrested 

So what do you do when you ask a kid multiple times to put away their phone and leave the room, but they repeatedly refuse?

It does a lot more than "hurt the teacher's pride" if you allow a student to just do whatever they want after being instructed to do something else.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/us/south-carolina-school-arrest-video/index.html



> The student -- who was released to her parents after the incident -- faces a charge of disturbing schools, according to Wilson. Another female student, Niya Kenny, faces the same charge after allegedly standing up for the other teenager, her mother, Doris Ballard told CNN.


The LEO was either the third or fourth person who tried to deal with her


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Here's the interesting part all of us armchair quarterbacks should note...

The local Sheriff finds the video disturbing... and the DOJ is wanting to investigate too... 

If they find it troubling, then I'd imagine us un-informed citizens should too..

Ya know... if they REALLY wanted to get her out of the class, two adults could have picked up the chair with her in it and walked her out.. 

Amazing how any more people see violence as the only solution.. Why stop at tossing her around.. it's evident she's a worthless piece of doo doo... He should have just shot her and been done with it...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

simi-steading said:


> Here's the interesting part all of us armchair quarterbacks should note...
> 
> The local Sheriff finds the video disturbing... and the DOJ is wanting to investigate too...
> 
> ...


The Sheriff is a politician and as such may say things he doesn't really mean.

The DOJ is probably only interested because of race

Lifting the desk isn't practical since it's very unsafe if she resists, and they still have to get her out of it anyway.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> its obvious that her particular "pattern of behavior" is unacceptable. Perhaps she should seek more acceptable patterns.


I didn't say anything to the contrary. You're probably right. It's less evident than the cop's behavior, because we don't know what she did that caused the cop to arrive. But sure... We can pretend that her behavior being unacceptable justifies that cop's behavior........I just choose not to.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wiscto said:


> I didn't say anything to the contrary. You're probably right. It's less evident than the cop's behavior,* because we don't know what she did that caused the cop to arrive.* But sure... We can pretend that her behavior being unacceptable justifies that cop's behavior........I just choose not to.


She was using her phone in class, and she refused to put it away.
Then she was told to leave, and again she refused.

The assistant Principal got involved, and got more refusals, so they called for the LEO and told him to remove her from the room.

After she refused his requests, he proceeded to get her out of the room.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> She was using her phone in class, and she refused to put it away.
> Then she was told to leave, and again she refused.
> 
> The assistant Principal got involved, and got more refusals, so they called for the LEO and told him to remove her from the room.
> ...


Yea... You can dress it up however you want.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It must be, since she was arrested
> 
> So what do you do when you ask a kid multiple times to put away their phone and leave the room, but they repeatedly refuse?
> 
> ...


What do you do with any kid who doesn't mind you the first time? You figure out how to make them want to. Be firm, not angry or excited, you conduct yourself like the adult in authority, which you are. 

So the kid is totally stubborn and you've exhausted your bag of tricks? Leave the class for a few minutes, go to the principal's office and make the report and start the discipline process. Or ignore them until the bell rings if your class is too untrustworthy to be alone for a few minutes, then go make the report. 

Physical confrontation is the last resort and only for defense. Unless teachers are all gonna be incredible hulk size, they better learn the mind game and play it well.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The Sheriff is a politician .....


Oh boy do I have opinions about politicians in LE.... I won't get started on the other side of that coin...


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

I really do not see this as problematic. She was disrupting the class by using her cellphone in class and refused surrender it or to leave. Sure it could be handled other ways, but at the same time, there is no reason for school staff to let one student walk over them and disrupt class. They shouldn't need a hostage negotiator to get some girl with an attitude to comply.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

They also don't need to show all those other students violence is the answer.. 

Sure is funny they have no tolerance for students touching each other.. But they get to see that cops can beat on who ever they want for what ever they want..


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Here's a few more facts
http://louderwithcrowder.com/spring...olice-brutality-story-changes-with-new-video/


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Declan said:


> I really do not see this as problematic. She was disrupting the class by using her cellphone in class and refused surrender it or to leave. Sure it could be handled other ways, but at the same time, there is no reason for school staff to let one student walk over them and disrupt class. They shouldn't need a hostage negotiator to get some girl with an attitude to comply.


I hope she's expelled
She obviously isn't there to learn


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

You know what?
The "school administration is just SHOCKED at his behavior".
Really?
Ok, then why don't you deal with your OWN students, and the cops will pull out of the schools. 
YOU get off your administrative fat patooty and 'police' your own dang school.

If I was a cop, I'd tell the schools to stick it. It's their circus and their monkeys.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

I watched the video. Had that been my classroom, I would have handled the whole situation differently. I've actually been trained in non-violent crisis management (sad that it's necessary but it's a different world). The absolute first thing I would have done is to call for help (other school staff) and remove the audience. We actually practice "clear the room" drills (students leave the room and go to the teacher in the classroom to the right). It's amazing how quickly students de-escalate when their audience is removed (no need to save face or perform for their friends). That allows the adults to use the strategies to de-escalate the situation and obtain compliance. Attempting to restrain a student is an absolute last resort and should only be used if the student is harming themselves or others. Yes, de-escalating the situation takes a lot of time but it does work. I have not had to restrain students often.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

They also aren't reporting about the second girl that was arrested in this incident.. 

_The student faces a charge of disturbing schools and was released to her parents after the incident, Wilson said. He said another female, who might not be visible in the footage, was also arrested for disturbing schools._

Supposedly the girl said something to the cop for the other girl being thrown around, and the cop got an attitude with her. I saw the girl do an interview, but can't find it on the web.. 

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/26/us/south-carolina-spring-valley-high-school-student-video/

Also note in this article there is mention of another court date in January for this cop being sued...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

SLFarmMI said:


> I watched the video. Had that been my classroom, I would have handled the whole situation differently. I've actually been trained in non-violent crisis management (sad that it's necessary but it's a different world). The absolute first thing I would have done is to call for help (other school staff) and remove the audience. We actually practice "clear the room" drills (students leave the room and go to the teacher in the classroom to the right). It's amazing how quickly students de-escalate when their audience is removed (no need to save face or perform for their friends). That allows the adults to use the strategies to de-escalate the situation and obtain compliance. Attempting to restrain a student is an absolute last resort and should only be used if the student is harming themselves or others. Yes, de-escalating the situation takes a lot of time but it does work. I have not had to restrain students often.



It's been a bit since my kids have been in school but our county has a policy similar to what you describe and while seldom used, it is very effective.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

MO_cows said:


> Is it in the criminal code that not obeying your teacher is a crime?
> 
> This was a matter for the teacher, the principal and the parents. Not the cops. A kid threatening bodily harm to the other students or the teacher, sure, call in the cop. But sulling up and refusing to get out of your chair, is not a risk to anything but the teacher's pride.
> 
> ...


You really, really, really, need to go into some of the classrooms where teachers are tasked with teaching kids that cannot be expelled from school due to board policies and federal monies. My daughter last year had to have a fifth grader taken down by a sheriff's deputy and cuffed, just to get the child out of the classroom.

Do I think this officer used too much force? Probably. But classroom discipline has to be maintained, or it quickly becomes a zoo, where nobody learns anything.

I guess the question becomes, what do you do with a non-compliant student? One who has no interest in being in the classroom, that you simply cannot get rid of?


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Slow the video down when you watch it. It shows a very different story than what we see in the regular video.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

That video probably isn't the whole story. The news tonight said police have a second video of her hitting the cop. If true, case closed.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wiscto said:


> Yea... You can *dress it up* however you want.


There's no "dress up" 
The media has shown a short portion of one video.
I've heard reports there are at least three, and one shows her hitting the LEO in the face.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MO_cows said:


> What do you do with any kid who doesn't mind you the first time? You figure out how to make them want to. Be firm, not angry or excited, you conduct yourself like the adult in authority, which you are.
> 
> So the kid is totally stubborn and you've exhausted your bag of tricks? Leave the class for a few minutes, *go to the principal's office* and make the report and start the discipline process. Or ignore them until the bell rings if your class is too untrustworthy to be alone for a few minutes, then go make the report.
> 
> *Physical confrontation is the last resort* and only for defense. Unless teachers are all gonna be incredible hulk size, they better learn the mind game and play it well.


The LEO was at least the third person to deal with her
The Assistant Principal was called, and he then called the Deputy

Just "ignore them until the bell rings" isn't a good option at all.
That will teach them they can get out of an entire class by being disruptive


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There's no "dress up"
> The media has shown a short portion of one video.
> I've heard reports there are at least three, and one shows her hitting the LEO in the face.


Apparent confirmation on the third video plus cop is dating a Black woman. Looks like the kid may be up for a battery charge. Some days you get the bear. Some days the bear gets you.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-officer-tackled-teen-phone-article-1.2412665


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

simi-steading said:


> They also don't need to show all those other students violence is the answer..
> 
> Sure is funny they have no tolerance for students touching each other.. But they get to see that *cops can beat on who ever they want for what ever they want*..


That's not even remotely the truth.
She caused the entire incident by her own actions



> They also aren't reporting about the second girl that was arrested in this incident..


I posted a link that mentioned her, so someone is reporting it, even though it's not dramatic enough for headlines. The media wants emotional hype, not plain facts


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Now that the media has gone off helter skelter, what will they do for an encore when it's obvious the sheriff went political maybe due to Ferguson and the prosecutor did the same without knowing all the facts. 

There are circumstances when I can understand a cop wanting to throw up. Over a video like that? You have to LYAO at the posturing. The chief needs a good swift kick in the cajones to remind him he does have a pair. I could be wrong about that.

The teacher and the administrator are backing the cop. They were there and saw it all.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Darren said:


> Now that the media has gone off helter skelter, what will they do for an encore when it's obvious the sheriff went political maybe due to Ferguson and the prosecutor did the same without knowing all the facts.
> 
> There are circumstances when I can understand a cop wanting to throw up. Over a video like that? You have to LYAO at the posturing. The chief needs a good swift kick in the cajones to remind him he does have a pair. I could be wrong about that.
> 
> The teacher and the administrator are backing the cop. They were there and saw it all.


People never learn to look for more details before jumping to conclusions, and the media just loves to fan the flames by omitting details


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Deleted Cyber Echo


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

She did deserve to be suspended. She may have deserved to be expelled. But for every single one of you people defending the cop, I can tell you right now that your inability to recognize a man with too much power and not enough self control is more dangerous to our freedoms than any hypocritical court clerk or anti-gun liberal ever has been. The fact that you can't imagine a different outcome or a different/better course of action doesn't mean that one didn't exist. I've been in situations far worse. I've been through the conflict resolution training. I've been IN the schools. I know better. If you think it's okay for a cop to lose his cool and flex his muscles because someone was disobeying him, you're just wrong, and nothing you say can change that fact. It's a fact. And if you're the kind of person who would react that way to a teenager with a limited perspective and time to learn and grow in life, I have no respect for you at all.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I don't see the problem. When a cop turns on his flashing lights, you pull over or face the consequences. The same applies when a cop is doing his duty of maintaining law and order and tells you to go stand somewhere. Refusing results in bad things happening as this precious little snowflake found out. Why do people make excuses for spoiled rotten people with bad attitudes who try to disrupt the lives of others?


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I was always told "Don't start something you can't finish." Battering a cop may get you street cred. It won't get you sympathy when you get immobilized and cuffed.

Did the cop use too much force? Unknown at this point. You can BYA the students in that class learned something that day.


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

simi-steading said:


> They also don't need to show all those other students violence is the answer..
> 
> Sure is funny they have no tolerance for students touching each other.. But they get to see that cops can beat on who ever they want for what ever they want..


The officer did not hit her but she hit him. Defending her is condoning violence. That "you can't tell me what to do. You're not my mommy" attitude just encourages behavior like hers.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

It's a teenaged girl!?!  Yes, as it happens she is African American. Perhaps the same will happen to your kid later this week, or maybe to you. Open your eyes. First they come for the teenaged girls, then they come for the cars with loud mufflers, then they come for you.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

poppy said:


> I don't see the problem. When a cop turns on his flashing lights, you pull over or face the consequences. The same applies when a cop is doing his duty of maintaining law and order and tells you to go stand somewhere. Refusing results in bad things happening as this precious little snowflake found out. Why do people make excuses for spoiled rotten people with bad attitudes who try to disrupt the lives of others?


Nobody is making excuses for her. That's just something that you pulled from your imagination. Saying that the cop was wrong isn't the same as saying that she was right. Why are you making excuses for a type A hothead who couldn't handle a 100 pound teenage girl without chucking her across the room? How is it that people on this site will talk and talk about how scared they are of authoritarianism, but when a cop can't keep his cool in a classroom during a situation that I could have handled on my worst day without being that violent, people suddenly support the authoritarian police officer? Do you have any idea how easy it would have been for her to have cracked her head on the ground or separated a shoulder? Do you think it's okay just because she got lucky and landed safely both times she was chucked to the ground. 

This is insane. You're wrong.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

You can't treat people like that. Even if you don't like them. Jesus Christ!, are we living in Iran?


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

The fact that you "right wing conservatives" would back that guy up is just hilarious to me. Y'all have no credibility.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wiscto said:


> She did deserve to be suspended. She may have deserved to be expelled. But for every single one of you people defending the cop, I can tell you right now that your inability to recognize a man with too much power and not enough self control is more dangerous to our freedoms than any hypocritical court clerk or anti-gun liberal ever has been. The fact that you can't imagine a different outcome or a different/better course of action doesn't mean that one didn't exist. I've been in situations far worse. I've been through the conflict resolution training. I've been IN the schools. I know better. If you think it's okay for a cop to lose his cool and flex his muscles because someone was disobeying him, you're just wrong, and nothing you say can change that fact. It's a fact. And if you're the kind of person who would react that way to a teenager with a limited perspective and time to learn and grow in life, I have no respect for you at all.


I didn't see him "lose his cool"
I saw him arrest a belligerent student

He can't stand around all day looking for a warm and fuzzy solution while the rest of the class sits there doing nothing.

To do so is letting the girl control the class


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

poppy said:


> That video probably isn't the whole story. The news tonight said police have a second video of her hitting the cop. If true, case closed.


hitting and resisting is a huge invitation to Get treated just that much harder. Resists, hit and you ARE going to be taken down one way or another. Rough or not you WILL be taken down. Can't put t blame on this officer at all if that IS what really happened. Once again people Jump at the first report and hype and jump all over the cops or in this case cop. Bad news if this is the way society is going in this country. Blame before BOTH sides are shown.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> She did deserve to be suspended. She may have deserved to be expelled. But for every single one of you people defending the cop, I can tell you right now that your inability to recognize a man with too much power and not enough self control is more dangerous to our freedoms than any hypocritical court clerk or anti-gun liberal ever has been. The fact that you can't imagine a different outcome or a different/better course of action doesn't mean that one didn't exist. I've been in situations far worse. I've been through the conflict resolution training. I've been IN the schools. I know better. If you think it's okay for a cop to lose his cool and flex his muscles because someone was disobeying him, you're just wrong, and nothing you say can change that fact. It's a fact. And if you're the kind of person who would react that way to a teenager with a limited perspective and time to learn and grow in life, I have no respect for you at all.


In the face of resistance (she became violent first), how much force would you like to have seen used?


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

vicker said:


> You can't treat people like that. Even if you don't like them. Jesus Christ!, are we living in Iran?


The pendulum swings both ways when making judgement. The cop has been the subject of jury trials at least once maybe twice and has been acquitted. does that mean he's a bad cop or is it a reflection on the "tude" of kids that have an exaggerated sense of self-importance?

The kid had a couple of opportunities to avoid being removed from the class. In the end the school administration felt they had to maintain discipline while going through a graduated response. 

While she wasted class time and the potential for learning for her classmates based on the lesson plan, she did provide an example for the others who may have been in doubt of what could happen when school policy was carried out.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Declan said:


> The officer did not hit her but she hit him. Defending her is condoning violence. That "you can't tell me what to do. You're not my mommy" attitude just encourages behavior like hers.


I have to laugh.. everyone makes it sound like the girl hit the cop then the cop took action.. It's just not that way.. .

The cop grabbed her by her hair, then she started swinging... I'm the same way.. fight or flight, and she didn't have anywhere to go...


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

I'm sure the authorities are happy to know that all of you will comply peacefully with whatever orders that man in uniform gives you. It's a good lesson for anyone to learn. Respect and blindly follow authority. Step right this way. We're just going on a little train ride.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

1. IF you MUST have officers in your school, the SCHOOL should provide P&P for MULTIPLE situations. 

2. STUDENTS AND PARENTS should be provided the schools P&P, signed and returned to the school BEFORE they can enroll.

WHO runs this show? Students? Teachers? WHO?
That's right, the 'children'.
Why?
THE ADULTS are afraid of getting in trouble......because the students will 'sue' or cry 'racism' or 'sexism' or whatever 'ism' they can get their 5 min of fame on TV for.

The teacher, the adult, told her to leave.
She refused. 
Blatant disrespect. Blatant disruption. Blatant disobedience.
THAT TEACHER is NOT in a juvenile correction facility, he's in a public school.

The teacher called for back up. 
WHY 
BECAUSE he didn't want HIS backside in sling?
BECAUSE he didn't want to get sued?
BECAUSE he didn't want his face splashed all over the TV for being a racist?
BECAUSE he was following P&P?

This 16 year old female, who was told to leave, she refused.
She was told to get up.
She refused.
*Failure to comply.*

For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.

Clear the classroom?
NOW you have disrupted the education process for 30 students because 1 will not comply?
Drag 30 kids......where? Into the hallway? To disrupt multiple other students in their classrooms wondering what's going on?
FOR ONE STUDENT?

This is so insane.
WHO RUNS THE SHOW HERE.
It's about time, the adults, step up and take control.

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth we were not allowed to bring a CALCULATOR to school. MUCH LESS a cell phone. 
You shoot your mouth off to a teacher, assistant principal, heck the lunch lady? 
YOU were in the office, your parents were called......the end.

I chose to homeschool NOT because of 'cops going crazy' but because of (censored) students like this girl who disrupt class.
This crap happened EVERY DAY when my kids were in school, and we were in a 'fluffy predominately white' suburb community.

At first blush, and until I see something WAY different, I am behind this cop 100%.

If the school doesn't approve of the officers behavior.
Police your own (censored) school. 
FOP should pull their cops out of schools RIGHT NOW.


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## Oldshep (Mar 28, 2015)

You know when I step way back and look at this situation I see another perspective. Mandatory schooling is like mandatory anything, its backed by force of violence. Government does FORCE children to go to school, they force parents to bring their children to government schools where they are indoctrinated. I'm a big fan of "Unschooling", look it up its quite an interesting concept, the idea that children can learn by living life rather than being forced to sit behind a desk in a brick institution ( radical I know ).

But the reality is we have COMPULSORY "education" and anything compulsory must be backed by the force to compel. What we are witnessing isnt so much the interplay between that individual child and that individual officer. It's the relationship of government compulsory force and the public. Although we don't see that happen everyday, it's that threat, the violent threat to the child AND the threat to the parent that makes up the current compulsory education system.

I guess my point is, that if you support compulsory education then you are looking at the reality of it in this story. If you support compulsory anything but you don't support the violence that must accompany it then you are not living in reality.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

mmoetc said:


> I'm sure the authorities are happy to know that all of you will comply peacefully with whatever orders that man in uniform gives you. It's a good lesson for anyone to learn. Respect and blindly follow authority. Step right this way. We're just going on a little train ride.


I've never had a problem with LEOs. When I've drawn their attention it's been for an obvious reason. Only once did I get in an argument. The other times, they've sometimes thanked me. They don't have an easy job. I see no reason to make it more difficult.

Attitude is something primal. It's easily picked up especially by those whose work involves potentially life or death situations. Those who do well from training whether athletes, LEOs or others do so because the training is instilled as habits. 

That is what you're facing whether you compete athletically or present an attitude to a LEO. Habits are not controlled by the thinking part of the brain. They are stored in the basal ganglia. That's why addictions are so hard to overcome and superb athletes do as well as they do.

It's also why you need to understand when you confront a LEO what happens may not be in your best interest.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wiscto said:


> She did deserve to be suspended. She may have deserved to be expelled. But for every single one of you people defending the cop, I can tell you right now that your inability to recognize a man with too much power and not enough self control is more dangerous to our freedoms than any hypocritical court clerk or anti-gun liberal ever has been. The fact that you can't imagine a different outcome or a different/better course of action doesn't mean that one didn't exist. I've been in situations far worse. I've been through the conflict resolution training. I've been IN the schools. I know better. If you think it's okay for a cop to lose his cool and flex his muscles because someone was disobeying him, you're just wrong, and nothing you say can change that fact. It's a fact. And if you're the kind of person who would react that way to a teenager with a limited perspective and time to learn and grow in life, I have no respect for you at all.


It didn't look to me like he lost his cool
He got ahold of her and tried to pull her up out of her seat.
She hung on to the chair, tried to kick him and her own motion upset the chair.
If you look carefully at the pictures in the article I posted, you'd be hard pressed to see the officer doing anything wrong.
If that had been a white girl, you would have never heard this story.
It's being used to fan the flames of the left's war on cops and promote division.
My question is, why are kids allowed to have cell phones in class?
Are they there to learn or socialize?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

wiscto said:


> Nobody is making excuses for her. That's just something that you pulled from your imagination. Saying that the cop was wrong isn't the same as saying that she was right. Why are you making excuses for a type A hothead who couldn't handle a 100 pound teenage girl without chucking her across the room? How is it that people on this site will talk and talk about how scared they are of authoritarianism, but when a cop can't keep his cool in a classroom during a situation that I could have handled on my worst day without being that violent, people suddenly support the authoritarian police officer? Do you have any idea how easy it would have been for her to have cracked her head on the ground or separated a shoulder? Do you think it's okay just because she got lucky and landed safely both times she was chucked to the ground.
> 
> This is insane. You're wrong.


Cops chuck people to the ground all the time and there is a reason. She is no infant and has only herself to blame for this whole incident. Yes, blaming the cop is making excuses for here whether you see it or not because it diminishes her role in starting the WHOLE thing. The cop was called there. He didn't just walk in and tackle a kid at random.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

I remember once when I was in high school, I mouthed off to a teacher/coach once.
Only once.
That teacher took me to the locker room and taught me about respect.
Nobody got sued, nobody got fired, it was between him and me.
He never knew it, but I was grateful to him later in life for that lesson.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

vicker said:


> The fact that you "right wing conservatives" would back that guy up is just hilarious to me. Y'all have no credibility.


So if we look at all the pictures, listen to the commentary and draw a different conclusion than you, we have no credibility?
Personally, I think "y'all" who assume white cop-black offender automatically shows racism and brutality have very little credibility, more of a knee-jerk reaction before the facts are in.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

As someone who has WAY more run in's with police, and who had a mother that retired as a police dispatcher, I've known and dealt with way more police offices than I have cared for.. 

Yes, I've dealt with many that were good people, but I've also dealt with many more who were egotistical idiots... (boy did I have to retain my words there). 

I used to have one police chief of a small town that just didn't like me, and everything that happened in that town, he'd show up at my door to harass me... He even had plates on his personal car that said JD Hogg.... Never one time did I do anything I was being harassed about.. He just didn't like me... 

There are good and bad in this world, but it just chaps my butt that people stick up for police when they are wrong, just because they are the police.. 

I hate to say it, but there's a lot of people here who are going to wake up one day with a boot on their neck, wondering what's happened to this once great FREE country of ours...


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## Declan (Jan 18, 2015)

simi-steading said:


> I have to laugh.. everyone makes it sound like the girl hit the cop then the cop took action.. It's just not that way.. .


I think everybody agrees that the cop took action before she hot him but that does not change that she was actively resisting arrest--a crime. What I have to laugh at are the number of people who want to enable people like this.



> The cop grabbed her by her hair, then she started swinging... I'm the same way.. fight or flight, and she didn't have anywhere to go...


I don't see him grabbing her by her hair in the video.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

mmoetc said:


> I'm sure the authorities are happy to know that all of you will comply peacefully with whatever orders that man in uniform gives you. It's a good lesson for anyone to learn. Respect and blindly follow authority. Step right this way. We're just going on a little train ride.


That's totally absurd. If someone is on my property giving me problems and I call the cops, I expect them to do what is needed to protect me and my property. Same applies to schools. No train ride involved. Letting people ignore the rules and get by doing whatever they want anywhere they want leads to chaos and anarchy. This girl disrupted the class and made it impossible for those there to learn. Some make an issue of her being black. So what? There are spoiled brats with anger issues in every color. BTW, they come in the adult size too.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

poppy said:


> That's totally absurd. If someone is on my property giving me problems and I call the cops, I expect them to do what is needed to protect me and my property. Same applies to schools. No train ride involved. Letting people ignore the rules and get by doing whatever they want anywhere they want leads to chaos and anarchy. This girl disrupted the class and made it impossible for those there to learn. Some make an issue of her being black. So what? There are spoiled brats with anger issues in every color. BTW, they come in the adult size too.


And there's the problem... You expect someone else to solve your problems and keep you safe.. Too many people are like that, and thus we have a vary oppressive government and police force in this country.. 

I'd rather look out for my own safety... I'm losing my safety (FREEDOM), because others can't look out for their own...


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

And people wonder what has happened with todays kids. Why don,t they want to work, why don't they want to take orders. Well there you have it it is all right in front of some and still they can not see.
Lack of discipline, lack of RESPECT.~! What a sad situation this country has gotten itself in, When not even school children can respect others in a room for learning. Others want to learn this girl was acting like a spoiled brat.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

simi-steading said:


> As someone who has WAY more run in's with police, and who had a mother that retired as a police dispatcher, I've known and dealt with way more police offices than I have cared for..
> 
> Yes, I've dealt with many that were good people, but I've also dealt with many more who were egotistical idiots... (boy did I have to retain my words there).
> 
> ...


In my misspent youth, I had a couple cops that didn't like me, and I always felt harassed too.
Now that I'm older and have had time to think, I guess I gave them plenty of reason to dislike me.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

arabian knight said:


> And people wonder what has happened with todays kids. Why don,t they want to work, why don't they want to take orders. Well there you have it it is all right in front of some and still they can not see.
> Lack of discipline, lack of RESPECT.~! What a sad situation this country has gotten itself in, When not even school children can respect others in a room for learning. Others want to learn this girl was acting like a spoiled brat.


She was acting like an entitled thug who has been taught her whole life she's a "victim" and ------ is out to get her.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I find that it's very important to get both sides (all sides?) of an incident like this before deciding what really happened.

Perhaps this young woman isn't an entitled thug, victim, spoiled brat, or any of the other names she's been called?

The situation certainly could have been handled differently.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

wiscto -

You are not the only one who has worked with defiant teens. As a matter of fact, at one time I used to work in a county mental health facility. So I think I know a little about aberrant behavior.

At some time or another the line has to be drawn so that the defiant behavior stops. According to one of the new videos, she hit the cop first - after other people tried to reason with her and before he used force.

Need to go by the facts, not assume anything.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> I find that it's very important to get both sides (all sides?) of an incident like this before deciding what really happened.
> 
> Perhaps this young woman isn't an entitled thug, victim, spoiled brat, or any of the other names she's been called?
> 
> The situation certainly could have been handled differently.



She could have left her phone in her purse.
She could have shown respect and put her phone away (per the rules everyone knows) when the teacher asked.
She could have left the room when told, when she CHOSE to disobey an order from the adult teacher.
She could have left the room when the assistant principal came to back up the teacher asking her to leave.
She could have gotten up and left the room when the officer showed up to back up the SECOND adult that came to back up THE FIRST ADULT.
THREE ADULTS TO REMOVE 1 CHILD?
She was ASKED to go, by 3 adults?
SHE HAD PLENTY of opportunity to do the right thing.


Yeah, this definitely could have been handled differently.
THIS would have NEVER been a situation had the student COMPLIED with the written rules......

Oy


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I nearly lost my breakfast after reading some the the liberal responses on here. They are what is wrong with todays kids.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Kids aren't known for their sense, common or otherwise. 

As I said, the situation could have been handled differently.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

arabian knight said:


> I nearly lost my breakfast after reading some the the liberal responses on here. They are what is wrong with todays kids.


Too many 'label' kids today and place a ceiling on their world, not to mention pad the cell they are placed in by their 'label'.

It's sad. 
People think they are protecting them.....they are not.
They are destroying them, limiting them, disabling them, enabling them and creating a generation of monsters.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Too many 'label' kids today and place a ceiling on their world, not to mention pad the cell they are placed in by their 'label'.
> 
> It's sad.
> People think they are protecting them.....they are not.
> They are destroying them, limiting them, disabling them, enabling them and creating a generation of monsters.


It's called behavioral modification. Once that's instilled as habit, you've created a personality that doesn't function well in society.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Darren said:


> I've never had a problem with LEOs. When I've drawn their attention it's been for an obvious reason. Only once did I get in an argument. The other times, they've sometimes thanked me. They don't have an easy job. I see no reason to make it more difficult.
> 
> Attitude is something primal. It's easily picked up especially by those whose work involves potentially life or death situations. Those who do well from training whether athletes, LEOs or others do so because the training is instilled as habits.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you've had no problems. I and others have had some different experiences. According to some here all those problems were caused by us and our actions. Authorities are always blameless . Life isn't do so simple. A few here have stated that the officer's actions taught an important lesson to the other students. It seems that lesson is comply or face the consequences. Those consequences aren't arrest and due process but a well deserved beat down. Might makes right. A good philosophy as long as you have the might. 

A few weeks ago in the wake of the latest large scale campus shooting some criticized those who didn't fight back as being too compliant and passive. Some placed the blame on a system they say encourages kids to be passive and not stand up for themselves. The attitude expressed here that a cop should never be challenged is the same. It's likely the girl in this case was totally in the wrong. I can concoct a variety of scenarios where she felt the need to keep her phone and feared leaving the classroom. But they would all be speculation. I'm not going to try to defend her. But everyone who excuses the officer's actions without at least some question puts themselves one tiny step closer to the tyranny and oppression they fear from the authorities.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Darren said:


> It's called behavioral modification. Once that's instilled as habit, you've created a personality that doesn't function well in society.


And modifying that behavior to ensure no one questions or challenges authority makes it much easier to expand that authority.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Darren said:


> It's called behavioral modification. Once that's instilled as habit, you've created a personality that doesn't function well in society.


Again, to the root of the problem: Home.

American families are disappearing at an alarming rate.
Like 'pedal to the metal' rate.

IF parents are absent or won't parent then dump their kids in school and "expect" the teacher to deal with it: then Staring IN DAY CARE "the village" that some so fondly say it takes to raise a kid NEEDS to step in, and put this kid on the straight and narrow.....

And when the parents whine and cry, tell them to homeschool if they don't like it.
The End.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Wolf mom said:


> wiscto:
> 
> methinks you are confusing assumptions with facts....
> 
> ...


Pretty much the consensus among non-conservatives...fight the police, the teachers, any authority. 
Yup. Lets see where that attitude gets our country in a few yrs...whoops, already there.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

mmoetc said:


> And modifying that behavior to ensure no one questions or challenges authority makes it much easier to expand that authority.


CORRECT.
AND this is a bad thing!! A VERY bad thing!!! ^^^^^^^^

BUT
Starting in DAY CARE teaching the kids right from wrong.
Appropriate behavior in a school setting.
Expectations.
Etc.......that's not a bad thing. It's surely not happening in the home.
Schools are living proof of that.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Cornhusker said:


> I wonder if she got her invite to the White House yet


Post of the day award.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> CORRECT.
> AND this is a bad thing!! A VERY bad thing!!! ^^^^^^^^
> 
> BUT
> ...


And I'd say appropriate behavior in school doesn't include a police officer approaching a non threatening student accused of disrupting a classroom and attempting to forcibly remove her. I'd say appropriate behavior is trying to deescalate a situation such as this, not violently escalate it. There appeared to be no threat of violence to the staff or other students. Or to this student until
the officer laid hands upon her.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

poppy said:


> That's totally absurd. If someone is on my property giving me problems and I call the cops, I expect them to do what is needed to protect me and my property. Same applies to schools. No train ride involved. Letting people ignore the rules and get by doing whatever they want anywhere they want leads to chaos and anarchy. This girl disrupted the class and made it impossible for those there to learn. Some make an issue of her being black. So what? There are spoiled brats with anger issues in every color. BTW, they come in the adult size too.


Post of the day award.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

There's obviously a need for balance in a "free" society. We're seeing the concerns in this discussion. What do you do to ensure generations of good citizens that also understand their role in keeping what their forefathers may have made the ultimate sacrifice to secure?

I have a concern about the self-esteem priority that is a mainstay of current education. Where did that come from? Previous generations were taught to be literate. Now literacy seems to be an option. Without literacy you can't have rational thinking that allows future generations to discern the political pandering that enslaves. Too many have willingly accepted the comfortable yoke of self-esteem related illiteracy.

There's the real problem. The incident in the classroom is symptomatic of something very serious. The cops actions are not the problem. The failure of the education system is the problem that needs recognition. 

Rather than training kids to blindly accept authority we're missing the point that the lack of literacy and the pursuit of instant gratification is resulting in an inability to reason. 

What the kid did was out and out stupid. Now you know how she got that way. If parents won't teach their kids the current educational system with it's focus on instilling self-esteem won't either. You end up with kids that are a marketer's or pandering politician's wet dream. They're ready made for enslavement. Just pander to their sense of self importance.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Again, to the root of the problem: Home.


I saw some responses on this thread about calling the parents, The parents, or should I say parent or maybe I should say guardian, doesn't care. That is why these kids are in this predicament. Some will say "see it is not the kids fault." Yes that is correct, the kid should have been disciplined when young, now the kid still needs the discipline but to have any effect it needs to be tougher than it would have been if it had been done as a young child. Discipline creates self discipline. A young child gets a spanking, he says to himself, "if I do this again I'll get a spanking again so I won't." Then as he grows he tells his friends, "boy if I did that I'd get a beating." Then as an adult he says " I won't do that because it is wrong" Discipline becomes self discipline. These kids have never had consistent discipline, if they did get spanked it was because the parents got angry not because it was the penalty for wrong doing. So now they are older teenagers, the only thing that will get them to behave is, "if I do this I'll get dragged out of my desk and humiliated in front of class." 
I have read a book of wisdom, and in it is a lot about a fool and his folly, This wise man who wrote the book said the only thing the fool will understand is public humiliation, at that time it was public whipping. The fool is a fool because his parents/ guardians failed, maybe not his fault, but the only thing he will understand by adulthood is humiliation, he is too self arrogant to listen to anyone else. 
Someone commented earlier that he thought the girl in this instance was in fear of the officer that is why she locked up. That may be true, but how did it come to this? It came to this because she escalated the event to a point beyond her control, a foolish thing to do. She paid for her arrogance. 
These kids are not like your kids, they have not had a proper bringing up, sadly they still have to be raised, they still need discipline, they should be glad they don't whip like they did in the old days.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

mmoetc said:


> And I'd say appropriate behavior in school doesn't include a police officer approaching a non threatening student accused of disrupting a classroom and attempting to forcibly remove her.  I'd say appropriate behavior is trying to deescalate a situation such as this, not violently escalate it. There appeared to be no threat of violence to the staff or other students. Or to this student until
> the officer laid hands upon her.


Ok.......



> WHO runs this show? Students? Teachers? WHO?
> That's right, the 'children'.
> Why?
> THE ADULTS are afraid of getting in trouble......because the students will 'sue' or cry 'racism' or 'sexism' or whatever 'ism' they can get their 5 min of fame on TV for.
> ...


She was told by the teacher, adult authority.
She chose to disobey.
She was asked by the adult teacher to leave.
She was told by the assistant principal, to leave.
SHE WAS TOLD BY A 3rd ADULT, who happend to be a cop, to get up and leave.
THREE TIMES she was told to go.
THREE TIMES she 'failed to comply'.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> And there's the problem... *You expect someone else to solve your problems and keep you safe.. * Too many people are like that, and thus we have a vary oppressive government and police force in this country..
> 
> I'd rather look out for my own safety... I'm losing my safety (FREEDOM), because others can't look out for their own...


I don't expect anyone to keep me safe. I can do that pretty well. However, I have grandkids in school and I do expect the school to keep them safe and provide them an education. This school did nothing different than a bar or business would do if a customer caused problems. Tell them to leave or call the cops. The girl was not going to calm down and would have gotten worse. Had this been a five year old brat, you would have an argument because a teacher or cop can easily force them to sit down. This was a teenage girl for heaven's sake and, believe it or not, they can hurt you.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

In this case: &#8220;Everyone in life has a purpose, even if it's to _serve as a bad example_&#8221;. &#8213; Carroll Bryant.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

mmoetc said:


> And I'd say appropriate behavior in school doesn't include a police officer approaching a non threatening student accused of disrupting a classroom and attempting to forcibly remove her. I'd say appropriate behavior is trying to deescalate a situation such as this, not violently escalate it. There appeared to be no threat of violence to the staff or other students. Or to this student until
> the officer laid hands upon her.


So at what point is it necessary to take physical action? Is she to get her way always? Is she to be able to disrupt the class at her discretion always, along with encouraging others to do the same and thus deprive everyone in her vicinity of an education?

I have no idea whether this could have been handled better. I suspect it could have been as the short video I've seen seemed pretty extreme. But then it was not clear who was doing what to whom in it either.

But in the end, it is useless to try to exert authority to keep a bunch of near adults from creating chaos if there is no consequence for treating that authority with contempt. For kids who have gone through life being told that they have a "safety net" for all stupid and irresponsible behavior anyway, maybe a little fear of the consequences is needed. And since so many think of the education they are getting as a pain forced on them, and the courts do not allow them to even deprive themselves of that education, what is to be done? They know and disregard "deescalating techniques" as paper tigers. How much obligations of time and attention are these teens due ? It seems that schools are already operating under a premise that the least capable get the most attention as if their need is first in line. This tends to mean that everyone else does not get the best they can use while time and attention is spent on the failures.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Wolf mom said:


> wiscto -
> 
> You are not the only one who has worked with defiant teens. As a matter of fact, at one time I used to work in a county mental health facility. So I think I know a little about aberrant behavior.
> 
> ...


And if you think the officer didn't escalate himself way out of bounds, you're one of the reasons the system is broken. I don't need to see anything else. I already know she was being a huge pain in the butt. I already know he went over the top. I already know he blew his cool. I already know he was more violent than necessary. I already know he risked injuring her. I already know she didn't have a gun, knife, or anything else that presented a real threat. You need to go back to training before you get yourself in trouble or needlessly hurt someone, thank you very much in advance.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> She was acting like an entitled thug who has been taught her whole life she's a "victim" and ------ is out to get her.





Laura Zone 10 said:


> She could have left her phone in her purse.
> She could have shown respect and put her phone away (per the rules everyone knows) when the teacher asked.
> She could have left the room when told, when she CHOSE to disobey an order from the adult teacher.
> She could have left the room when the assistant principal came to back up the teacher asking her to leave.
> ...





arabian knight said:


> I nearly lost my breakfast after reading some the the liberal responses on here. They are what is wrong with todays kids.





Laura Zone 10 said:


> Too many 'label' kids today and place a ceiling on their world, not to mention pad the cell they are placed in by their 'label'.
> 
> It's sad.
> People think they are protecting them.....they are not.
> They are destroying them, limiting them, disabling them, enabling them and creating a generation of monsters.


Again. What you people seem to be failing to comprehend is that we aren't saying the kid wasn't doing anything wrong. This has nothing to do with being a "liberal." This has to do with not wanting cops around who think it's okay to cross that line under those circumstances. Listening to you people go on and on and on and on about the world as you see it like a modern day Voltaire is really incredible. It isn't ABOUT the kid. It's about that cop's response. If you really believe that's how we need to respond to that kind of attitude, you're wrong. If you think this is more of that feeble minded, thoughtless, deluded "liberals vs conservatives" crap, you're wrong. If you think you know what you're blabbering on and on about, you're wrong.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

where I want to said:


> So at what point is it necessary to take physical action? Is she to get her way always?


How are you not getting this? It isn't about him taking physical action. I know what his training is. I know what he was taught to do. He went WAAAYY out of bounds. Of course he had to remove her, that's the situation she created. He stepped over the line, way over the line, and he needs to be punished for it. And SHE needs to be punished as well. Get it?


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

wiscto said:


> How are you not getting this? It isn't about him taking physical action. I know what his training is. I know what he was taught to do. He went WAAAYY out of bounds. Of course he had to remove her, that's the situation she created. He stepped over the line, way over the line, and he needs to be punished for it. And SHE needs to be punished as well. Get it?


How should he have removed her from the classroom?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Annsni said:


> How should he have removed her from the classroom?


Actually, she deserved to be tasered and drug out by the heals. It is clear reasoning was not going to work with her. At that point he had no option but the physically remove her and he has that right. One video shows her hitting him and that should earn her a charge of battery on a cop. Did he use the right method to subdue her? I have no idea what his training called for and that will be up to his superiors. She was clearly resisting and perhaps he couldn't use the prescribed hold. They'll go through the videos frame by frame and decide if he acted properly. Both the teacher and black principal signed statements saying the cop acted properly. However, I'm sure the fact she was black and the cop was white made this a much bigger story than it should be. I hope it does not prevent fairness in the decision.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

wiscto said:


> Again. What you people seem to be failing to comprehend is that we aren't saying the kid wasn't doing anything wrong. This has nothing to do with being a "liberal." This has to do with not wanting cops around who think it's okay to cross that line under those circumstances. Listening to you people go on and on and on and on about the world as you see it like a modern day Voltaire is really incredible. *It isn't ABOUT the kid. It's about that cop's response. * If you really believe that's how we need to respond to that kind of attitude, you're wrong. If you think this is more of that feeble minded, thoughtless, deluded "liberals vs conservatives" crap, you're wrong. If you think you know what you're blabbering on and on about, you're wrong.


That cop would NOT have been involved had the child obeyed the TEACHER AND THE ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL.

This whole stupid situation started with the disrespectful disruptive kid.

THE COPS response; after 'repeated requests to get up' and then his verbal warning "I will get you up and remove you if you do not get up".....was absolutely warranted.

IF a cop tells you repeatedly to do something, and you FAIL TO COMPLY, and then after the cop tells you things are going down RIGHT NOW if you don't comply..............and you STILL WON'T COMPLY?
You are about to get what you are asking for.


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## JoePa (Mar 14, 2013)

Mean while - back at the ranch- :whistlin:


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

poppy said:


> Actually, she deserved to be tasered and drug out by the heals. It is clear reasoning was not going to work with her. At that point he had no option but the physically remove her and he has that right. One video shows her hitting him and that should earn her a charge of battery on a cop. Did he use the right method to subdue her? I have no idea what his training called for and that will be up to his superiors. She was clearly resisting and perhaps he couldn't use the prescribed hold. They'll go through the videos frame by frame and decide if he acted properly. Both the teacher and black principal signed statements saying the cop acted properly. However, I'm sure the fact she was black and the cop was white made this a much bigger story than it should be. I hope it does not prevent fairness in the decision.


It's a sad state of affairs when a federal agency is called to investigate a disciplinary action in a school. On some level that lessens the federal agency.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Annsni said:


> How should he have removed her from the classroom?


SLFarmMI detailed how she would have handled it. It's in post #41 on this thread. It's an excellent example of how this situation should be handled.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Darren said:


> In this case: âEveryone in life has a purpose, even if it's to _serve as a bad example_â. &#8213; Carroll Bryant.


Empty your PM box!!!


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

poppy said:


> Actually, she deserved to be tasered and drug out by the heals.


Anyone does that to my child, I'll be putting a bullet through their heads. Again. Not because she wasn't wrong. But because he put her needlessly at risk. Kids struggle. Maybe you had a happy life as a teenager. Maybe you never had a reason to feel like you had to fight everybody and everything. We're all real happy for you. Meanwhile, we would also like to deal with teenagers in a way that doesn't put them at risk of concussion, broken arms, or a freak fatal accident.

Oh and... If anyone tases my kid and drags her out by her heals, regardless of how she's behaving, I will be putting a bullet through that man's brain. And right there is another reason cops are trained to handle things like this BETTER than that. Because it creates needless tension in the community. 



Laura Zone 10 said:


> *That cop would NOT have been involved had the child obeyed the TEACHER AND THE ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL.
> *


Yea we all get that. Here's what you still don't get. Our objection isn't that the kid shouldn't have been removed. Our objection isn't that the kid was behaving just fine. Our objection isn't about the kid. Is that sinking it yet?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

wiscto said:


> Anyone does that to my child, I'll be putting a bullet through their heads. Again. Not because she wasn't wrong. But because he put her needlessly at risk. Kids struggle. Maybe you had a happy life as a teenager. Maybe you never had a reason to feel like you had to fight everybody and everything. We're all real happy for you. Meanwhile, we would also like to deal with teenagers in a way that doesn't put them at risk of concussion, broken arms, or a freak fatal accident.
> 
> Oh and... If anyone tases my kid and drags her out by her heals, regardless of how she's behaving, I will be putting a bullet through that man's brain. And right there is another reason cops are trained to handle things like this BETTER than that. Because it creates needless tension in the community.



So murder is ok, but removing an unruly child and cuffing her is the end of the world?
What?




> Yea we all get that. Here's what you still don't get. Our objection isn't that the kid shouldn't have been removed. Our objection isn't that the kid was behaving just fine. Our objection isn't about the kid. Is that sinking it yet?


Yes, Rude.
We all get it.

So please, by all means, how would YOU remove this disrespectful, disruptive entity???
How would YOU do it???


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

WHO runs this show? Students? Teachers? WHO?
That's right, the 'children'.
Why?
THE ADULTS are afraid of getting in trouble......because the students will 'sue' or cry 'racism' or 'sexism' or whatever 'ism' they can get their 5 min of fame on TV for.

The teacher, the adult, told her to leave.
She refused. 
Blatant disrespect. Blatant disruption. Blatant disobedience.
THAT TEACHER is NOT in a juvenile correction facility, he's in a public school.

The teacher called for back up. 
WHY 
BECAUSE he didn't want HIS backside in sling?
BECAUSE he didn't want to get sued?
BECAUSE he didn't want his face splashed all over the TV for being a racist?
BECAUSE he was following P&P?

This 16 year old female, who was told to leave, she refused.
She was told to get up.
She refused.
*Failure to comply.*

For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction.

*Clear the classroom?
NOW you have disrupted the education process for 30 students because 1 will not comply?
Drag 30 kids......where? Into the hallway? To disrupt multiple other students in their classrooms wondering what's going on?
FOR ONE STUDENT?

This is so insane.
WHO RUNS THE SHOW HERE.*
It's about time, the adults, step up and take control


Irish Pixie said:


> SLFarmMI detailed how she would have handled it. It's in post #41 on this thread. It's an excellent example of how this situation should be handled.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The sheriff announced the deputy was fired after the video was viewed by the training dept. I'm not sure what the deputy could have done that the school couldn't do if force wasn't justified. So how much force can a deputy use?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Darren said:


> The sheriff announced the deputy was fired after the video was viewed by the training dept. I'm not sure what the deputy could have done that the school couldn't do if force wasn't justified. So how much force can a deputy use?


I want to know what the schools P&P is....then if he followed P&P....if I were him I'd sue that school 10 ways into next Sunday.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> WHO runs this show? Students? Teachers? WHO?
> That's right, the 'children'.
> Why?
> THE ADULTS are afraid of getting in trouble......because the students will 'sue' or cry 'racism' or 'sexism' or whatever 'ism' they can get their 5 min of fame on TV for.
> ...


Dang. Dial down the drama. 

Yup. Apparently it works in her school, and she has first hand experience rather than just conjecture. I believe she said the entire school knew the drill, it's all in her post - number 41 - this thread. Using this protocol it's less likely that _anyone_ will get hurt.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The deputy has now been fired.

"At a noon press conference, Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott announced that Deputy Ben Fields has been relieved of duty for failing to follow proper procedures during the classroom arrest."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...es-including-rug-burn-face.html#ixzz3psmbYzdM 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> SLFarmMI detailed how she would have handled it. It's in post #41 on this thread. It's an excellent example of how this situation should be handled.


So once the kids are removed from the classroom, now what? This girl wasn't going to comply. What do you do when she continues to refuse?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> The deputy has now been fired.
> 
> "At a noon press conference, Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott announced that Deputy Ben Fields has been relieved of duty for failing to follow proper procedures during the classroom arrest."
> 
> ...


Proves the deputy didn't follow procedure...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Annsni said:


> So once the kids are removed from the classroom, now what? This girl wasn't going to comply. What do you do when she continues to refuse?


I dunno. I've never been trained in non-violent crisis management. You can ask her, or I imagine Google has something on it...


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

wiscto said:


> And if you think the officer didn't escalate himself way out of bounds, you're one of the reasons the system is broken. I don't need to see anything else. I already know she was being a huge pain in the butt. I already know he went over the top. I already know he blew his cool. I already know he was more violent than necessary. I already know he risked injuring her. I already know she didn't have a gun, knife, or anything else that presented a real threat. You need to go back to training before you get yourself in trouble or needlessly hurt someone, thank you very much in advance.


There's no excuse for you addressing another member here this way.
Agree or disagree, can't you post your opinion without that mess?


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## locpic (Jan 13, 2013)

I wonder what would have happened if he used his taser. Seems to be the weapon of choice these days.


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

Since this happened in S.C., it was the front page headline and color photos and all the spin treatment in the Charlotte paper today.

I had to laugh outloud at the comments of the NAACP pres from S.C.
OMG the racial element. Thank you media for not allowing a process to evolve in truth. Congrats on your role in diminishing an already crippled system.

I am very cynical about LEO over reach and so forth. But we're going to get to a point where the only thugs willing to be cops are mentally deranged neocons, and every "good" cop will have decided that brick laying class they took was gonna come in handy.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

wiscto said:


> How are you not getting this? It isn't about him taking physical action. I know what his training is. I know what he was taught to do. He went WAAAYY out of bounds. Of course he had to remove her, that's the situation she created. He stepped over the line, way over the line, and he needs to be punished for it. And SHE needs to be punished as well. Get it?


I waited to see a little more on this before posting and I agree with you.
So does the sheriff incidentally......
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sh...ossing-student-in-class/ar-BBmwylc?li=AAa0dzB

This issue reminds me of a few others on this board.
The two sides are never gonna agree. We can't say for sure what side is "right" but we can be certain that it can't be both.

This didn't come up over the weekend when I was in Cleveland visiting the in-laws for their golden anniversary, but they are all LEO's and the youngest is a CO in a local prison. We were sitting around Saturday afternoon joking about "conflict resolutions" as one of the typical family squabbles was being discussed in another room.
He does that for a living.
We both know how problems start and how they end. They can either go well or not end well. It's in the hands of contestants as to how it will end.
Once the cop arrived, she was going to jail in all likelihood, it was just a question of how. It didn't have to be that way, that was her choice.
With the training a 30 year officer has, he can make her knee crawl all the way to the back of the car if he wants to, with about ten pounds of force applied in the right place in the right direction.
If y'all don't know that or won't accept that as a fact, it's on you. It's true.

Most if not all the incidents of excessive force boil down to one single thing - pride.

There are some who think you have the right to even kill someone if they disrespect a cop, some where a uniform and a gun.
Some think you can go thru life and NEVER pay for your actions.
Both views are equally absurd.

I will say this. The cops in SC are rough. Richland county is as rough or rougher than a few of these counties in the Upstate. So when the sheriff of Richland county says you went to far, you better believe it.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Annsni said:


> How should he have removed her from the classroom?


I could go on all day about it. I could give examples. But the bottom line is, when you need to handle a teen like that who is currently not behaving violently, but you need to handle them physically, you do so as safely as possible. There were most likely teachers or staff in that school trained in proper restraint methods. If not. You call for backup. Two people can handle a kid like that far more safely. And regardless of the dubious comments on this message board, she deserved to be handled safely.

Beyond that, people here are talking like they know the guy had already exhausted his "talk it out" options. Calling her a thug who wasn't going to see reason. I worked with thugs who saw reason. His agitation made her tighten up even more. His alpha male bull crap made her more obstinate. It made her feel like she couldn't back down. I'm not going to write all of the various directions I would have taken that conversation. It would be a huge post, and I doubt anyone here would actually take the time to read all of it. I already gave one example earlier in the thread. There would have been no students in the room. If I can't get anywhere with her... I have now bought time, and I have staff in the room who can do a team restraint, which is safer, and now I don't have to worry as much that I might hurt the kid.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

partndn said:


> There's no excuse for you addressing another member here this way.
> Agree or disagree, can't you post your opinion without that mess?


I didn't call anyone a name. I didn't make a derogatory statement. And I'm right... It wasn't an opinion. If he/she thinks that cop was using proper methods, he/she needs to go back to training. I know that because NO ONE is trained to handle any situation the way this cop did. A cop may get away with it. But tere isn't a state in this country that won't blackball someone whose job is overseen by a state licensing official for accidentally hurting a kid under these circumstances after failing to use proper methods they were trained and certified to use. The circumstances won't matter much. I wasn't offering an opinion, I was offering a genuine concern. It was a fair warning, and I know what I'm talking about. Any licensing official could revoke his/her hospital's license if they witnessed hospital staff handling a patient that way, especially true if it goes public and they can't sweep it under the rug. The very least they will do is blackball the employee, remove their certifications, and that employee will not be able to work in that field in that state ever again. You don't have to like it, but that doesn't make you right.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

farmrbrown said:


> I waited to see a little more on this before posting and I agree with you.
> So does the sheriff incidentally......
> http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sh...ossing-student-in-class/ar-BBmwylc?li=AAa0dzB
> 
> ...


Thank you, sir. I really appreciate you saying this. That was a dangerous takedown. She's lucky. And he's lucky, because if she'd separated a shoulder and been concussed, he could be looking at doing some time. And she was absolutely in the wrong. She should be punished, and it is kind of sad to see a kid wreck her life like that, but she should be expelled.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Darren said:


> It's a sad state of affairs when a federal agency is called to investigate a disciplinary action in a school. *On some level that lessens the federal agency.*


Sure it does and it also diminishes the local law enforcement. It appears the FBI is becoming nothing but the arbitrator of cases involving blacks.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

poppy said:


> Sure it does and it also diminishes the local law enforcement. It appears the FBI is becoming nothing but the arbitrator of cases involving blacks.


Yea I'm going to agree with part of this. There was really no point in the FBI getting involved, I feel like they're just trying to avoid public backlash or someone's trying to score some political points.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Annsni said:


> How should he have removed her from the classroom?



This will be the most asked question, so I'll answer it. Whether you accept it or not is up to you. I'll assume the reason for asking is to learn the answer and not something else.

Step 1.
Inform the girl she either hands over the phone and sits in class quietly or she's going to jail. Give her a few moments to consider and answer but assure her that is her only two choices at that point.

Step 2. If she doesn't comply, grasp her forearm, extend it backwards, pull up and towards you while standing behind her and apply slight pressure.
It will be extremely painful and she will say you are breaking her arm. Ignore her and calmly say, "You are now going with me to the police station, you are under arrest".
Simply use her extended arm like a leash and guide her to the car while calling for back up with the other hand.


That is not the only technique, but the most common and easiest.
You don't have to body slam, taser or shoot someone in the back. You use the most powerful weapon you have (if you're lucky).........your brain.

BTW, the size of your opponent is irrelevant and there are also ways to disarm one using similar techniques.
Find an old Asian guy (Oh no, I'm a racist too) and ask him to teach you martial arts in his dojo.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> Proves the deputy didn't follow procedure...


All it proves is the Sheriff is trying not to upset blacks. Just watch. No charges will be filed against the "girl" who started the whole thing. If the department is union, the deputy may well get his job back. If I worked for a Sheriff who would throw one of his deputies under the bus so quickly, I would be looking for another police dept. to work in.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

poppy said:


> All it proves is the Sheriff is trying not to upset blacks. Just watch. No charges will be filed against the "girl" who started the whole thing. If the department is union, the deputy may well get his job back. If I worked for a Sheriff who would throw one of his deputies under the bus so quickly, I would be looking for another police dept. to work in.


Nope, look up the fired cop's record.
He had this coming for awhile.
The cops in SC pretty much stick together like everywhere else. You really have to go out on a limb for them to cut it off like that.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> All it proves is the Sheriff is trying not to upset blacks. Just watch. No charges will be filed against the "girl" who started the whole thing. If the department is union, the deputy may well get his job back. If I worked for a Sheriff who would throw one of his deputies under the bus so quickly, I would be looking for another police dept. to work in.


You're saying the Sheriff is lying about why he fired the deputy? 

Sheriff Lott said, "But he added that Deputy Fields was in the wrong when he threw the young woman across the room, which he said was not based on training and ran counter to approved departmental procedures.
'That is not a proper technique and should not be used by law enforcement,' Lott said. 


There's video of Sheriff Lott on painterswife's link. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...es-including-rug-burn-face.html#ixzz3psmbYzdM


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Step 1.
> Inform the girl she either hands over the phone and sits in class quietly or she's going to jail. Give her a few moments to consider and answer but assure her that is her only two choices at that point.


I believe this had already been done



> Step 2. If she doesn't comply, grasp her forearm, extend it backwards, pull up and towards you while standing behind her and apply slight pressure.
> It will be extremely painful and she will say you are breaking her arm. Ignore her and calmly say, "You are now going with me to the police station, you are under arrest".
> Simply use her extended arm like a leash and guide her to the car while calling for back up with the other hand.


It looked to me almost like this was what the cop was heading to do in grasping her arm but she pulled it back - and then he reached over her back to her other side while still trying to hold the arm and that was when she threw herself back and the cop's right arm slipped up around her neck. I doubt she would just sit there as the cop pulled her arm back from the way she reacted in this video.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Annsni said:


> I believe this had already been done
> 
> 
> 
> It looked to me almost like this was what the cop was heading to do in grasping her arm but she pulled it back - and then he reached over her back to her other side while still trying to hold the arm and that was when she threw herself back and the cop's right arm slipped up around her neck. I doubt she would just sit there as the cop pulled her arm back from the way she reacted in this video.


It wasn't done properly. You're right, you can't sit still while it's being done.
If they get out your grasp, which shouldn't happen if you didn't raise their defenses in the first place (That's why I said to be calm) you leg sweep them and drop them to the ground and start over.
As I said, it's all martial arts based on simple physics and psychology.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Well, right or wrong, agree or disagree with the cop, one this is for sure. The parents (or parent) are going to sue and the city will pay off big time. This will be rewarding bad behavior so the girl will only get worse. She doesn't seem to want an education so who's going to support her the rest of her life. Well those of us who work of course, and we'll support her kids too. And the cycle will continue!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wiscto said:


> Anyone does that to my child, I'll be putting a bullet through their heads. Again. Not because she wasn't wrong. But because he put her needlessly at risk. Kids struggle. Maybe you had a happy life as a teenager. Maybe you never had a reason to feel like you had to fight everybody and everything. We're all real happy for you. Meanwhile, we would also like to deal with teenagers in a way that doesn't put them at risk of concussion, broken arms, or a freak fatal accident.
> 
> Oh and... If anyone tases my kid and drags her out by her heals, regardless of how she's behaving, I will be putting a bullet through that man's brain. And right there is another reason cops are trained to handle things like this BETTER than that. Because it creates needless tension in the community.
> 
> ...


Wow...

Somewhat a contradiction right there, but I'm sure you don't see it.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> The deputy has now been fired.
> 
> "At a noon press conference, Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott announced that Deputy Ben Fields has been relieved of duty for failing to follow proper procedures during the classroom arrest."
> 
> ...


That's too bad
Another rotten kid now thinks they can get away with disrespecting orders from a cop.
That's what's wrong with this screwed up country, kids aren't taught respect.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Annsni said:


> So once the kids are removed from the classroom, now what? This girl wasn't going to comply. What do you do when she continues to refuse?


Offer her a scholarship to a foreign university?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> You're saying the Sheriff is lying about why he fired the deputy?
> 
> Sheriff Lott said, "But he added that Deputy Fields was in the wrong when he threw the young woman across the room, which he said was not based on training and ran counter to approved departmental procedures.
> 'That is not a proper technique and should not be used by law enforcement,' Lott said.
> ...


He avoided a riot, arson, assault, looting.
What else could he do? :shrug:


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

poppy said:


> Sure it does and it also diminishes the local law enforcement. It appears the FBI is becoming nothing but the arbitrator of cases involving blacks.


The Dept. of "Justice" was involved too, so we knew the outcome already.


----------



## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Cornhusker said:


> That's too bad
> Another rotten kid now thinks they can get away with disrespecting orders from a cop.
> That's what's wrong with this screwed up country, kids aren't taught respect.


 I do think some should spend a few days in a local high school...........these ain't your grandmas and grandpas kids anymore.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Miss Kay said:


> The parents (or parent) are going to sue and the city will pay off big time.


Good to see who reads the articles posted.. 

*Meanwhile, the attorney for the 16-year-old girl who was body-slammed by Fields in math class Monday morning spoke out saying his client - described as an orphan living in foster care *

Turns out this girl is a foster kid.. and has no parents.. Go figure.. 


Also, the cop was fired for something I was going to point out, and never did, but now I wished I would have... The MAIN reason it says he was fired, was for throwing the girl across the room.. 

The girl may have hit the cop after he grabbed her, but that didn't justify him throwing her to the front of the room before cuffing her.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

simi-steading said:


> Good to see who reads the articles posted..
> 
> *Meanwhile, the attorney for the 16-year-old girl who was body-slammed by Fields in math class Monday morning spoke out saying his client - described as an orphan living in foster care *
> 
> ...


Good grief!


----------



## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Wow...
> 
> Somewhat a contradiction right there, but I'm sure you don't see it.


I'm sure you'd love to believe that I wasn't making a point. And I really don't care. I think you know by now how much respect I have for your opinions. Grown man grabs your non-violent daughter and throws her across the room. The difference of course is.....she really wasn't a threat to him and he responded how he did. He could have killed her and your response would be.....what? Am I a hothead? Yea, when the people I love are threatened....not when someone's child is refusing to obey me. Yes. I am better than he is. Would I actually pull the trigger? Not very likely. If he did it again, or remained a threat? Absolutely. What was my point? That cops risk problems with the whole community when they threaten people's children. Then again... This girl is an orphan.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

wiscto said:


> I'm sure you'd love to believe that I wasn't making a point. And I really don't care. I think you know by now how much respect I have for your opinions. Grown man grabs your non-violent daughter and throws her across the room. The difference of course is.....she really wasn't a threat to him and he responded how he did. He could have killed her and your response would be.....what? Am I a hothead? Yea, when the people I love are threatened....not when someone's child is refusing to obey me. Yes. I am better than he is. Would I actually pull the trigger? Not very likely. If he did it again, or remained a threat? Absolutely. What was my point? That cops risk problems with the whole community when they threaten people's children. Then again... This girl is an orphan.


Where did he threaten this violent child?


----------



## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Lemme ask..... (wiscto kind of got me to think about this...)

What if when that cop tossed the girl across the room, and say hit her head on the wall, or got her head jammed up on the floor and broke her neck....

Was her crime worth the risk of death..... 

Brings me back to selling tax free single cigarettes on the street, and ironically, not being able to breath because the cops are trying to stop you... 

Is it worth the risk of death or serious injury to correct the person by putting your hands on them?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

po boy said:


> Where did he threaten this violent child?


You mean the non-violent teenage girl who resisted (barely) arrest? He picked her up and threw her four feet through the air after slamming her over backwards in her chair like a rag doll.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

wiscto said:


> You mean the non-violent teenage girl who resisted (barely) arrest? He picked her up and threw her four feet through the air after slamming her over backwards in her chair like a rag doll.


 
LOL, Twist away. She resisted, struck him and created the whole incident by not complying to at least 3 request to comply,\\

Spin all u want!

The fact that she may be an orphan is irrelevant unless she wore a tag that said I'm an orphan and u can't punish me for my actions!


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> Lemme ask..... (wiscto kind of got me to think about this...)
> 
> What if when that cop tossed the girl across the room, and say hit her head on the wall, or got her head jammed up on the floor and broke her neck....
> 
> ...


Which brings us back to the question- what is supposed to be done with people who thumb the noses at authority? Mind you not what would be nice if it happened but in the real world where any physical action can result in injury, not the fantasy world of the TV cop show where the scripted results always happen. Not the unreal idea that somehow police are to physically enforce laws but at the same time keep the persion safe from the slightest chance of injury. The made up scenarios of where nothing ever goes wrong and that inhuman self control is demanded by those who want their self endulged lives to be undisturbed.

I do think this policeman went too far, as far as I can tell from the slice of video on the news. Going too far is a natural result of asking police to do an impossibility. Of too many demands and too little accountability because accountability makes it impossible to do what is demanded they do without the public's participation.


----------



## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

po boy said:


> LOL, Twist away. She resisted, struck him and created the whole incident by not complying to at least 3 request to comply,\\
> 
> Spin all u want!
> 
> The fact that she may be an orphan is irrelevant unless she wore a tag that said I'm an orphan and u can't punish me for my actions!


It isn't spin. She pulled her arm away and struck him, barely. She did no damage. She was no threat. She could have been taken down by PROPER methods. The fact that she is an orphan has absolutely nothing to do with anything, other than the fact that she is a troubled kid who probably feels hopeless...and that could explain her behavior. Nobody is saying that she couldn't have handled herself better. When are you hothead apologists going to get over that? We already know she was at fault for being in the situation she was in. That is not how to handle it if you're cop with training.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

simi-steading said:


> Lemme ask..... (wiscto kind of got me to think about this...)
> 
> What if when that cop tossed the girl across the room, and say hit her head on the wall, or got her head jammed up on the floor and broke her neck....
> 
> ...


Ask her, Are your actions worth the risk of death or serious injury?

At what point do we decide rules and laws do not apply?


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## partndn (Jun 18, 2009)

simi-steading said:


> Lemme ask..... (wiscto kind of got me to think about this...)
> 
> What if when that cop tossed the girl across the room, and say hit her head on the wall, or got her head jammed up on the floor and broke her neck....
> 
> ...


You are very right, that certainly could have happened. Fluke paralyzing injury or even death. I get what you're sayin, I do.
But isn't it equally curious to ask the same question of the girl? While it may look less active or impressive visually, she had behavior too. Was her goal worth stopping everyone else's class time, her own aggravation, and ultimately some guy's job? and whatever rigmarole is in her future due to this? She had choices too.

Both parties had behavior to be responsible for. It's an endless circle round and round of was it worth it. 

It's a lot harder for me to see how the single sellin ciggie guy was harming anyone, and cops should have laid off.
The girl in the class was screwin it up for everybody else who was trying to learn, teach, etc.

I'm not tryin to pick, just tryin to look from both sides if that's possible.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

where I want to said:


> Which brings us back to the question- what is supposed to be done with people who thumb the noses at authority?


Well.. England asked that question and tried to address it, and got their butts kicked all the way back to England.. 

Now we just roll over and let our government do with us as it pleases.. 

It seems to me, We the People forgot somewhere along the lines the government was placed here for us, by us.. Not the other way around... 

They do now with us as they please... violence being the first thing they turn to when we thumb our noses.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

partndn said:


> Both parties had behavior to be responsible for. It's an endless circle round and round of was it worth it.
> 
> I'm not tryin to pick, just tryin to look from both sides if that's possible.


I have to agree here...

The girl was wrong... But the cop was even wronger (I love that word )

He's the professional.. She's the adolescent... 

Two wrongs sure didn't make a right...


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Annsni said:


> So once the kids are removed from the classroom, now what? This girl wasn't going to comply. What do you do when she continues to refuse?


Now that the audience has been removed, the crisis team is free to employ their de-escalation techniques. I'm not going to get into what all they are because it was a 2 day training and, if I outlined them all, this post would be way too long. 

The point is that these techniques work most of the time and the student would have eventually calmed and complied with adult directions. Does it take a while? Yes. Is it a pain in the neck and would I rather that students would just do what they're told? Sure, but school staff had better know these de-escalation techniques because we are seeing more and more children who are mentally ill, defiant, emotionally damaged and/or parented by adults who are themselves mentally ill or emotionally damaged. That's just a fact of life in the world we live in. 

In my school, if the de-escalation techniques had not worked and the student had escalated her behavior to where she became harmful to herself or others, then we would have implemented a physical restraint. There are many possible restraints which are also too numerous to detail here. From what I saw in the video, this student didn't even come close to that point. Physical restraint should be a last resort.


----------



## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

simi-steading said:


> Well.. England asked that question and tried to address it, and got their butts kicked all the way back to England..
> 
> Now we just roll over and let our government do with us as it pleases..
> 
> ...


But what is the answer? I have heard the complaints. I don't think that somehow the colonials were full of tolerance for social deviation- they were much, much , much less tolerant. They just tended to take care of business themselves (tar and feathers or instant execution) than demanding the 'authorities' take care of their problems. 
If this girl behaved so disrespectfully then (which she probably would not have had access to school in the first place), she would have been switched or paddled by the teacher with unstinting support of the community. And then gone home to face more punishment.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Back when I was in school (middle of last century) one of the gym teachers would have done this and nothing would ever have been said.

Look, the girl was told to put the phone away by the teacher
When she didn't, someone from the Office told her to put it away
When she didn't, she was told to leave the class room
When she didn't, that was when the cop came in.
Then from every account I have read she both yelled at him and hit him.
Only then did they start capturing video.

Once again the liberal press gives you only what they want you to see


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

SLFarmMI said:


> Now that the audience has been removed, the crisis team is free to employ their de-escalation techniques. I'm not going to get into what all they are because it was a 2 day training and, if I outlined them all, this post would be way too long.
> 
> The point is that these techniques work most of the time and the student would have eventually calmed and complied with adult directions. Does it take a while? Yes. Is it a pain in the neck and would I rather that students would just do what they're told? Sure, but school staff had better know these de-escalation techniques because we are seeing more and more children who are mentally ill, defiant, emotionally damaged and/or parented by adults who are themselves mentally ill or emotionally damaged. That's just a fact of life in the world we live in.
> 
> In my school, if the de-escalation techniques had not worked and the student had escalated her behavior to where she became harmful to herself or others, then we would have implemented a physical restraint. There are many possible restraints which are also too numerous to detail here. From what I saw in the video, this student didn't even come close to that point. Physical restraint should be a last resort.


How old are these kids you deal with? Are they special ed kids?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

where I want to said:


> How old are these kids you deal with? Are they special ed kids?


I work in an elementary school so the kids I deal with range in age from 4 to 12. Some of the kids that I've been called for as a member of the crisis team are special education students but the majority of calls have been for general education kids. 

Don't let the ages of the kids fool you into thinking that they can't hurt you. I've had furniture thrown at me with great force (thank God I grew up playing dodgeball so I'm pretty good at ducking and dodging). I've been kicked, pinched, pushed, scratched, feet stomped on, head butted. I haven't been bitten yet but Murphy's law being what it is, someone will probably try to bite me tomorrow.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nice, peaceful group of kids!

"Three Sacramento-area high school students were arrested after a principal was slammed to the floor during a melee that was recorded on video and posted to social media.

Two 15-year-olds and a 13-year-old face serious charges -- including making threats to students and law enforcement and battery on school staff -- in connection with Monday&#8217;s cafeteria brawl at Florin High School, said Sacramento County sheriff's Sgt. Tony Turnbull."

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgJCYp0bn74[/ame]

What's going to be the excuse for their behavior this time? I don't think their very conservative!


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

JeffreyD said:


> Nice, peaceful group of kids!
> 
> "Three Sacramento-area high school students were arrested after a principal was slammed to the floor during a melee that was recorded on video and posted to social media.
> 
> ...


I don't think anyone here is going to excuse their behavior. I don't think there's any correlation between that incident and the one in the OP. I think that's all in your imagination.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

SLFarmMI said:


> I work in an elementary school so the kids I deal with range in age from 4 to 12. Some of the kids that I've been called for as a member of the crisis team are special education students but the majority of calls have been for general education kids.
> 
> Don't let the ages of the kids fool you into thinking that they can't hurt you. I've had furniture thrown at me with great force (thank God I grew up playing dodgeball so I'm pretty good at ducking and dodging). I've been kicked, pinched, pushed, scratched, feet stomped on, head butted. I haven't been bitten yet but Murphy's law being what it is, someone will probably try to bite me tomorrow.


I saw a 10 year old schizophrenic/psychopath punch out security glass, bend the steel mesh, and crack the second pane. The strength of some mentally disturbed individuals is not a myth. I had 14-17 year olds who weren't afraid to rumble with staff two to three times their size who wouldn't have messed with that 10 year old for 5 million dollars and a date with Beyonce.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

wiscto said:


> I don't think anyone here is going to excuse their behavior. I don't think there's any correlation between that incident and the one in the OP. I think that's all in your imagination.


Did I say there was any connection? It is YOUR imagination tricking you into thinking that.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

JeffreyD said:


> Did I say there was any connection? It is YOUR imagination tricking you into thinking that.


"I wonder what the excuse will be _this time._" And you posted it in this thread. Maybe you should make a point instead of letting us decide what you're trying to imply.


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## ginny63 (Nov 21, 2005)

I wonder what all these subjects of these stories will be doing with their lives in 5 years or 10 years. Will they all be productive citizens?


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

wiscto said:


> I saw a 10 year old schizophrenic/psychopath punch out security glass, bend the steel mesh, and crack the second pane. The strength of some mentally disturbed individuals is not a myth. I had 14-17 year olds who weren't afraid to rumble with staff two to three times their size who wouldn't have messed with that 10 year old for 5 million dollars and a date with Beyonce.


I think kids can sense when adults are affraid of them. I've seen it, but not experienced it. I just don't have a fear of other humans.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

SLFarmMI said:


> I work in an elementary school so the kids I deal with range in age from 4 to 12.
> 
> Don't let the ages of the kids fool you into thinking that they can't hurt you. I've had furniture thrown at me with great force. I've been kicked, pinched, pushed, scratched, feet stomped on, head butted.


Did you catch the key word here - ELEMENTARY. Don't think those cute K - 6th graders can't hurt you - they can.

There was in incident in our school district several year's ago where a special-ed kid got uncontrollable on a van. The van driver and helpers got the other kids off the van so they wouldn't get hurt, but the kid then kicked out several van windows. After that, none of the van drivers (or van owners) were interested in transporting that child, so the school district now reimburses the parents transportation costs for transporting their own child to where the child needs to go.

This was a HIGH SCHOOL teenager. Yes, the girl was smaller than the resource officer - but that doesn't mean anything.

I agree, the resource officer went too far - but that still doesn't change the fact that if the girl would have listened to authority to begin with (the teacher, the principal, and then the resource officer) things would have been different.

She was given THREE chances and ignored all 3. Kids need to learn your actions do have consequences!


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

wiscto said:


> "I wonder what the excuse will be _this time._" And you posted it in this thread. Maybe you should make a point instead of letting us decide what you're trying to imply.


That was the point, letting YOU decide. I'm not implying anything. What are you trying to say?


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Did you catch the key word here - ELEMENTARY. Don't think those cute K - 6th graders can't hurt you - they can.
> 
> There was in incident in our school district several year's ago where a special-ed kid got uncontrollable on a van. The van driver and helpers got the other kids off the van so they wouldn't get hurt, but the kid then kicked out several van windows. After that, none of the van drivers (or van owners) were interested in transporting that child, so the school district now reimburses the parents transportation costs for transporting their own child to where the child needs to go.
> 
> ...



Do you think that there is a chance that this is not the first time that the girl texted in class. I think that there is a good chance that teachers have let these things slide instead of promptly dealing with it. IF they have let this slide before that would send a message to the phone users in the class.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

wiscto said:


> You mean the non-violent teenage girl who resisted (barely) arrest? He picked her up and threw her four feet through the air after slamming her over backwards in her chair like a rag doll.


She dumped the chair while trying to kick and hit the cop.
Doesn't matter, they fired him to keep from facing a riot.
Obama got what he wanted, blacks are becoming untouchable, just the way the bigot in chief wanted
And idiots supported him, bigots one and all


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> And if you think the officer didn't escalate himself way out of bounds, you're one of the reasons the system is broken. I don't need to see anything else. I already know she was being a huge pain in the butt. I already know he went over the top. I already know he blew his cool. I already know he was more violent than necessary. I already know he risked injuring her. I already know she didn't have a gun, knife, or anything else that presented a real threat. You need to go back to training before you get yourself in trouble or needlessly hurt someone, thank you very much in advance.


Excuse me, but how do you know she didn't have a weapon?


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

OTH, if this poor child could be raised by two mommies, she'd be an outstanding student, prepping for college. Or maybe not. We have decided there is no optimum environment for raising children and we wonder why we get more and more kids that are incapable of acting properly. 


Dysfunctional families, dysfunctional kids.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

If that is true, that this girl is a foster kid, this whole situation breaks my heart.

No one has cared for her, trained her, loved her.....
This is what happens when we throw kids away.

How very very sad.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Lott is a good cop. He was chief of police here in my little town at one point when I was dispatching. He is typically a de-escalator, the kind of cop you didn't cringe to send on a call. 
The girl was guilty of failing to show proper respect to a LEO. It shouldn't be legal to beat a man down for that, let alone a school girl.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Jolly said:


> OTH, if this poor child could be raised by two mommies, she'd be an outstanding student, prepping for college. Or maybe not. We have decided there is no optimum environment for raising children and we wonder why we get more and more kids that are incapable of acting properly.
> 
> 
> Dysfunctional families, dysfunctional kids.


I don't know about two mommies but I do know a couple young men who were raised by two daddies when their one mommy decided they were cramping her style and they turned into fine marines.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> So if we look at all the pictures, listen to the commentary and draw a different conclusion than you, we have no credibility?
> 
> Personally, I think "y'all" who assume white cop-black offender automatically shows racism and brutality have very little credibility, more of a knee-jerk reaction before the facts are in.



I don't think it is automatic at all.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Columbia, SC is not a big city, and that school is one of the top public schools in the State. I'm sure that most of y'all would be ok with a LEO treating your child like that but, most people wouldn't be. It's not like mouthy teenage girls is a new scourge on the Country. That's been going on since, at least, the witch trials in Salem, MA IN THE LATE 17th century. 
If a cop had treated one if my sisters like that?, Lord have mercy! My father would gone to the station and had him called in. It would have gotten ugly from that point.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

And, this is the thing, no one deserves to be treated like that. Why do so many of y'all present that she deserved it? You can't just beat someone's ass because you don't like the way they do, or don't, respond to you. Not on the street, certainly not in a school. There are too many other and productive ways to deal with a person who is having/being a problem.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

JeffreyD said:


> I think kids can sense when adults are affraid of them. I've seen it, but not experienced it. I just don't have a fear of other humans.


I have no idea what adult you're talking about. I have no idea what you're talking about at all, really. I responded to the notion that a kid can't cause damage. They can. I talked about a kid who scared much bigger kids. I wasn't afraid of the kid, mainly because I worked with them all to the point of just being numb to it all... In fact I dealt with that kid using proper restraint methods all the time. He wasn't sitting in a chair yanking his arm away, either. Your imagination is interesting.




JeffreyD said:


> That was the point, letting YOU decide. I'm not implying anything. What are you trying to say?


Hahaha... Sure.



Jolly said:


> Excuse me, but how do you know she didn't have a weapon?


Because she didn't.



Jolly said:


> OTH, if this poor child could be raised by two mommies, she'd be an outstanding student, prepping for college. Or maybe not. We have decided there is no optimum environment for raising children and we wonder why we get more and more kids that are incapable of acting properly.
> 
> 
> Dysfunctional families, dysfunctional kids.


"I watch TV so I know how everything is going out there these days." So do you agree with everyone here that you deal with a dysfunctional kid by losing your cool and chucking her across the room? Is that the example we should be setting for all these dysfunctional kids? Someone screws up you throw them around a bit?

They call it a "cycle" for a reason.  You know what screwed up kids hate the most? When you demonstrate that their world isn't the world you come from, that there is a different way to be. They love it if they can get you to blow up and do some damage. It proves to them that you're no better than they are, you're no better than their messed up abusive parents, so then they don't have to try so hard to change.....because that is very stressful to them. The road to change is a pretty painful thing for those kids, with failures, embarrassments, lapses, and general emotional distress all along the way. A lot of the time they want to run away from it. That cop may have ruined all the work someone has put into that girl when he decided to "show her."


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

JeffreyD said:


> Nice, peaceful group of kids!
> 
> "Three Sacramento-area high school students were arrested after a principal was slammed to the floor during a melee that was recorded on video and posted to social media.
> 
> ...


That was actually a good point.
They slammed someone to the ground and got battery charges.
Good.
I don't know where this idea comes from that disrespect or disobedience to a LEO is grounds for battery, but it's prevalence is disturbing to me.

If I walked in a store and a cop was texting on his phone and holding up the line, and I said, "Put that away" and he smarted off to me, do you think I have the right to throw him on the ground?
I can tell you where that would end and I wouldn't be having too many people defend my actions.
WTH is up with this?
Before you go laying your hands on someone, you'd best think about ALL the results and exactly why you felt that was the only option.
Spanking is one thing, but this is different. By high school, that ship has already sailed.
Then you'd better be prepared to answer for it and live with the decision.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> If that is true, that this girl is a foster kid, this whole situation breaks my heart.
> 
> No one has cared for her, trained her, loved her.....
> This is what happens when we throw kids away.
> ...


I wonder if this girl came from an addictive background. This kind of defiance looked familiar but I couldn't figure it out until a friend of mine who has adopted three children from drug/alcohol addicted mothers spoke out on Facebook. She said that the girl's behavior was just like her one child's - beligerent, defiant and disrespectful. This mom has had these kids from birth but this one child has been so tough all through her life.  The other two are better - basically "good" kids but are saddled with severe seizures daily. SO sad.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Annsni said:


> I wonder if this girl came from an addictive background. This kind of defiance looked familiar but I couldn't figure it out until a friend of mine who has adopted three children from drug/alcohol addicted mothers spoke out on Facebook. She said that the girl's behavior was just like her one child's - beligerent, defiant and disrespectful. This mom has had these kids from birth but this one child has been so tough all through her life.  The other two are better - basically "good" kids but are saddled with severe seizures daily. SO sad.


The thought, of a child that is not only 'not loved' but neglected and abandoned breaks my heart.
Yes, at a certain age, all humans have / understand right from wrong; but kids that have never been loved, taught, trained, etc have had to create a persona w/ a pretty tough crusty exterior to hide that 'tender, vunerable, hurt' inside.....

Back to my point.

This all THIS ALL starts in the home.
This all starts, in the womb.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

farmrbrown said:


> That was actually a good point.
> They slammed someone to the ground and got battery charges.
> Good.
> I don't know where this idea comes from that disrespect or disobedience to a LEO is grounds for battery, but it's prevalence is disturbing to me.
> ...


Until the cop drug the kid out of the chair, things may have been going per procedure per both the school and the sheriff's dept. The issue now is appropriate force. I find it interesting neither the teacher nor school administrator saw an issue in the classroom. That will be interesting to monitor for change.

Can some tell me how to view the video in slow motion?


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Clear the classroom?
> NOW you have disrupted the education process for 30 students because 1 will not comply?
> Drag 30 kids......where? Into the hallway? To disrupt multiple other students in their classrooms wondering what's going on?
> FOR ONE STUDENT?


Yes, clear the classroom. When I saw this vid on TV, I asked DW, a teacher what she would do. The cop would not have gotten involved because she would not have called the cop unless there was a physical danger. Dw said clear the classroom. Take the audience away. 

The education process has already been disrupted and clearing the classroom would have been WAY less disruptive than what we see in the vid. 

There are almost always places you can take the kids. Cafeteria, library, gym, theatre, the lobby outside the principal's office. Almost any other outcome would have been better for ever person involved in the story.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

DEKE01 said:


> Yes, clear the classroom. When I saw this vid on TV, I asked DW, a teacher what she would do. The cop would not have gotten involved because she would not have called the cop unless there was a physical danger. Dw said clear the classroom. Take the audience away.
> 
> The education process has already been disrupted and clearing the classroom would have been WAY less disruptive than what we see in the vid.
> 
> There are almost always places you can take the kids. Cafeteria, library, gym, theatre, the lobby outside the principal's office. *Almost any other outcome would have been better for ever person involved in the story.*


Except the all those other students in the class who have been denied teaching time.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Annsni said:


> Except the all those other students in the class who have been denied teaching time.


And the students in the other classrooms that are paying more attention to the 30 kids in the hallway than what the teacher was saying.......

Disruption of the whole educational process for 1 kid?
STOP catering to the minority.
She can either assimilate (be a student that is there to learn) or she can leave. The end.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> And the students in the other classrooms that are paying more attention to the 30 kids in the hallway than what the teacher was saying.......
> 
> Disruption of the whole educational process for 1 kid?
> STOP catering to the minority.
> She can either assimilate (be a student that is there to learn) or she can leave. The end.


So instead you throw a kid across the room. Yes , the right choice.:shrug:


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Annsni said:


> Except the all those other students in the class who have been denied teaching time.


You think the other kids got more teaching time from seeing another student thrown about the classroom? Those kids are probably still talking about the big fight and drama. To be sure, all productive teaching time ended for that day. 

If the other kids had been taken elsewhere, much less drama and the story would have been over much sooner.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> So instead you throw a kid across the room. Yes , the right choice.:shrug:


Dial down the drama.
He didn't "throw her across the room". 

He pulled her out of the chair and then tossed her 3-4 FEET.
Now, he should NOT have tossed her. That was too far. 
Yank her out of the chair, and cuff her RIGHT THERE.

BUT 'across the room' is a gross exaggeration.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> And the students in the other classrooms that are paying more attention to the 30 kids in the hallway than what the teacher was saying.......
> 
> Disruption of the whole educational process for 1 kid?
> STOP catering to the minority.
> She can either assimilate (be a student that is there to learn) or she can leave. The end.


I'm all for expulsion of kids who refuse to participate in school in a productive manner. So yeah, if she is as bad as some assume, get her out of the school permanently. But you don't use physical force except to prevent violence and injury. 

Odds are, the kid will get rewarded with a settlement of some sort. What will that teach the other kids? Do you want submission in your goal of assimilation or do you want to create a learning environment? 

Even if 30 kids in the hall had disturbed another class, it would still be less disturbance at that school than what it is going thru now.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Dial down the drama.
> He didn't "throw her across the room".
> 
> He pulled her out of the chair and then tossed her 3-4 FEET.
> ...


No it is not. He disrupted the classroom far more than taking the rest of the students out.

Who needs to dial down the drama? No need to start that with me or you will find out what drama is.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

I support a local charity that is a ranch for abandoned and troubled boys 6 - thru college age. They take in 50 boys, put them in one of 5 homes on their ranch and teach the kids to live in the home with a family who has kids of their own. The kids learn great manners, to care for livestock, that they must do their homework and chores. It is all done in an Xian and loving environment. The kids can basically opt out of "believing" but they can't opt out of seeing the believers going about their daily lives. 

When I asked one of the leaders how they handle really disruptive boys, he said they never get physical. They isolate the boy ( e.g., clearing the classroom) and talk him down. He said sometimes it takes hours and they have to tag team the boy. But eventually the boy tires. He gets hungry. He wants the adults to go away. He wants to be with the other boys. 

The leader explained how frustrating it can be for all. But the isolating and talking method works - always - as long as the teen doesn't get physical, to himself or others, the adults keep their cool. If the adults get tired or upset they leave and a fresh adult or two comes in. 

This boys ranch has been doing it this way for decades and they have a great track record. I've met two of the former residents, 20 and 30 years after they left. They had nothing but good to say about the program. When I was there a couple of months ago, they were getting ready to have a memorial service for a former resident, a Marine killed in action. I'm sure every boy didn't become a success story, but they are taking some tough boys from bad circumstances and turning them around without having to resort to dangerous physical assault.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

> "I watch TV so I know how everything is going out there these days." So do you agree with everyone here that you deal with a dysfunctional kid by losing your cool and chucking her across the room? Is that the example we should be setting for all these dysfunctional kids? Someone screws up you throw them around a bit?


No, I know about dysfunctional kids from working in healthcare treating indigent people for over 30 years, ten years spent as an adjunct in a program that dealt with a lot of people trying to turn their crappy lives around, a daughter who has worked in inner city schools almost a decade and a son who once got pretty banged up breaking up a gang fight in the back of his classroom.

Let me tell you something. At a certain point, patience runs thin, you're tired of fighting with some doofus over the same thing for the tenth time. You're tired of sending them to the principal's office and having them beat you back to your classroom. You keep these idiots in your classroom and you lose all respect. The monkeys now very quickly, who runs the jungle and who doesn't.

Maybe your idea of discipline is when mommy told you to got sit in the corner for a time out or when daddy made you go to bed without supper. These kids aren't like that. Yeah, you can use techniques out the whazoo - some of them work pretty well - but there are some kids that the only technique that seems to work is immediate and overwhelming force. Sad, but true.

Let me tell you how things go between some of these kids and their parents...This year, one of these primary jackasses decided he would play the knock-out game with a girl two grades below him. He darn near broke a third grade girl's jaw. As it was, she had a tremendous knot on the side of her face and she had to be treated at a local ER. He was expelled (one of the few times the administration had the guts to kick one out).

When the girl's mom got her out of the ER, she drove to the place where the boy who had attacked her daughter lived. She confronted his grandmother (nobody even knew where his mom was at) and told the old woman she could either beat his butt or call him out and she would. The old woman called him out and the girl's mom pulled a piece of fanbelt out of her purse and whipped that boy down the street and back up it.

And all this took place, just as school was letting out and close enough to the school that a lot of the kids saw it, along with several of the teachers...Teachers who were not going to walk a half-block to intervene in somebody getting their just due. Shame the sheriff's deputy who works as the school's resource officer, felt a sudden and overwhelming urge to go the bathroom, about the first time a painful yelp was heard.

TV? Nah. Life.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

DEKE01 said:


> You think the other kids got more teaching time from seeing another student thrown about the classroom? Those kids are probably still talking about the big fight and drama. To be sure, all productive teaching time ended for that day.
> 
> If the other kids had been taken elsewhere, much less drama and the story would have been over much sooner.


But you forget the valuable lesson some here would seem to like taught. Be compliant little droids and obey the man in charge.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Jolly said:


> No, I know about dysfunctional kids from working in healthcare treating indigent people for over 30 years, ten years spent as an adjunct in a program that dealt with a lot of people trying to turn their crappy lives around, a daughter who has worked in inner city schools almost a decade and a son who once got pretty banged up breaking up a gang fight in the back of his classroom.
> 
> Let me tell you something. At a certain point, patience runs thin, you're tired of fighting with some doofus over the same thing for the tenth time. You're tired of sending them to the principal's office and having them beat you back to your classroom. You keep these idiots in your classroom and you lose all respect. The monkeys now very quickly, who runs the jungle and who doesn't.
> 
> ...


And there's a major difference between a private citizen protecting their child and a government official assaulting someone. I personally don't condone the behavior of the woman in your scenario but would you be so blasÃ© if the school resource officer had done the same? Were supposed to be protected from government abuse, not blindly accept it.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

poppy said:


> Actually, she deserved to be tasered and drug out by the heals. It is clear reasoning was not going to work with her. At that point he had no option but the physically remove her and he has that right. One video shows her hitting him and that should earn her a charge of battery on a cop. Did he use the right method to subdue her? I have no idea what his training called for and that will be up to his superiors. She was clearly resisting and perhaps he couldn't use the prescribed hold. They'll go through the videos frame by frame and decide if he acted properly. Both the teacher and black principal signed statements saying the cop acted properly. However, I'm sure the fact she was black and the cop was white made this a much bigger story than it should be. I hope it does not prevent fairness in the decision.


Post of the day award.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

vicker said:


> And, this is the thing, no one deserves to be treated like that. Why do so many of y'all present that she deserved it? You can't just beat someone's ass because you don't like the way they do, or don't, respond to you. Not on the street, certainly not in a school. There are too many other and productive ways to deal with a person who is having/being a problem.


On the other hand, do the teachers deserve it?
Should they be tasked with dealing with thugs in their classes?
Do they deserve the lack of respect?
They are trying to do their job and they have to put up with some brat who thinks she's above the rules because she knows she can get away with it.
Should the students who are actually there to learn deserving of such disruption?
the cop got fired, the kid should be expelled, everybody gets what they deserve.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

mmoetc said:


> But you forget the valuable lesson some here would seem to like taught. Be compliant little droids and obey the man in charge.


That's how it should be in school


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

mmoetc said:


> But you forget the valuable lesson some here would seem to like taught. Be compliant little droids and obey the man in charge.


Just curious, are you saying that listening to the teacher is instilling droid like qualities? Since it was the teacher that initially asked the student to leave.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

no really said:


> Just curious, are you saying that listening to the teacher is instilling droid like qualities? Since it was the teacher that initially asked the student to leave.


I'm not necessarily commenting on this student's behavior. I've previously stated I think she was wrong. I'm more concerned with the attitude that she somehow had the abuse( in my opinion) coming based on her behavior. I'm more concerned by the attitude voiced by some that the lesson taught here should be to obey authority and comply peacefully or face overwhelming force to ensure that compliance. Our country wasn't founded by those afraid to question authority and take risk for what they believed in. The best and brightest people I know, the true innovators, the business founders, are almost to a person those who spent time conversing with a principal or dean. They were the ones to challenge authority and talk back to teachers. Look a bit into the history of the public school in this country and figure out why discipline and compliance were important . It was to ensure a good learning environment, but also to prepare a compliant workforce for those factory jobs most were destined for. No factory owner wants a workforce questioning him. They just wanted the work done without question. Governments don't want a questioning citizenry. They want those nice unquestioning droids blindly following authority that many here want our schools to train. 

The irony is that many who are defending the cops actions are the same who rail against government overreach they don't like and profess a fear of an authoritarian takeover. They're the same people who say they will fight against a government abusing them but tolerate abuse of others by that very same government because it isn't affecting them.........yet. I'm not defending this girl's actions. She deserved to be removed from the class and suffer suspension or expulsion. But her bad actions didn't deserve the treatment she got. Absent cell phone video bringing this to our attention the other students in the class shouldn't have learned from this incident that a police officer has the right to assault a citizen acting peacefully, even if they aren't compliant.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

mmoetc said:


> I'm not necessarily commenting on this student's behavior. I've previously stated I think she was wrong. I'm more concerned with the attitude that she somehow had the abuse( in my opinion) coming based on her behavior. I'm more concerned by the attitude voiced by some that the lesson taught here should be to obey authority and comply peacefully or face overwhelming force to ensure that compliance. Our country wasn't founded by those afraid to question authority and take risk for what they believed in. The best and brightest people I know, the true innovators, the business founders, are almost to a person those who spent time conversing with a principal or dean. They were the ones to challenge authority and talk back to teachers. Look a bit into the history of the public school in this country and figure out why discipline and compliance were important . It was to ensure a good learning environment, but also to prepare a compliant workforce for those factory jobs most were destined for. No factory owner wants a workforce questioning him. They just wanted the work done without question. Governments don't want a questioning citizenry. They want those nice unquestioning droids blindly following authority that many here want our schools to train.
> 
> The irony is that many who are defending the cops actions are the same who rail against government overreach they don't like and profess a fear of an authoritarian takeover. They're the same people who say they will fight against a government abusing them but tolerate abuse of others by that very same government because it isn't affecting them.........yet. I'm not defending this girl's actions. She deserved to be removed from the class and suffer suspension or expulsion. But her bad actions didn't deserve the treatment she got. Absent cell phone video bringing this to our attention the other students in the class shouldn't have learned from this incident that a police officer has the right to assault a citizen acting peacefully, even if they aren't compliant.



I too do not think the officer was correct in his actions. That being said I was one of those kids that had numerous questions, drove some teachers and professors crazy. LOL. But I never insulted nor talked back to them, there is no productive discourse when talking back. There are also times to walk away from some conversation.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

To add a bit more perspective. I had breakfast with my school board member neighbor this morning. The place we eat usually has a couple of local LEO's present. Much of the conversation dealt with this incident. Our local schools policy echoes the evacuate and deescalate strategy others have outlined. The deputies present said this was the best strategy because it ensured everyone's safety. They asked what would have happened if one or more of those students had come to the girl's defense. What if the football player in the back row was her boyfriend. Their job is to protect the students and themselves. Doing it the way this officer did accomplished neither.

They also pointed out something the police chief pointed out in his statement. When an officer is called in it becomes an enforcement issue. It should only be done if a crime has occurred or health or well being are endangered. It should never be because a student is not listening to a teacher or principal. Other policies and procedures should be exhausted before a police officer is called in to remove and arrest someone. They didn't feel that was the case here. 

No one defended the girl. No one called the cop racist or evil. They did say he acted wrongly and deserved punishment. They though firing was too much but also understood that politics plays a role in all incidents like this, rightly or wrongly.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

no really said:


> I too do not think the officer was correct in his actions. That being said I was one of those kids that had numerous questions, drove some teachers and professors crazy. LOL. But I never insulted nor talked back to them, there is no productive discourse when talking back. There are also times to walk away from some conversation.


I was that kid also. So were most of my friends. Knowing when to walk away, back off and quit pushing is important from both sides. What many have tried to point out is that it's just as important, if not more so, that the adults know that lesson.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> Let me tell you something. At a certain point, patience runs thin, you're tired of fighting with some doofus over the same thing for the tenth time. You're tired of sending them to the principal's office and having them beat you back to your classroom. You keep these idiots in your classroom and you lose all respect. The monkeys now very quickly, who runs the jungle and who doesn't.


Apparently you haven't been reading about me at all if you think you need to tell me something. I agree that she couldn't be allowed to stay in the classroom. Do you agree that the officer lost his cool and failed to use the methods he is trained to use? Also, whether you meant it racially or not, your use of the word monkey tells me everything.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> They also pointed out something the police chief pointed out in his statement. When an officer is called in it becomes an enforcement issue. It should only be done* if a crime has occurred* or health or well being are endangered.


If she is told to leave and refuses, she is trespassing.

She was reportedly charged with "disrupting a school class", so that may be a crime in SC as well.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> If she is told to leave and refuses, she is trespassing.
> 
> She was reportedly charged with "disrupting a school class", so that may be a crime in SC as well.


It's an interesting question. She's required by law to be in school and in class. Can someone really be trespassing in a place they're required by law to be.

The officers I spoke to didn't say it wasn't an enforcement issue when the officer was called in. They said he shouldn't have been called in when he was. I'll defer to their professional opinions.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)




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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

painterswife said:


> No it is not. He disrupted the classroom far more than taking the rest of the students out.
> 
> Who needs to dial down the drama? No need to start that with me or you will find out what drama is.


 Don't forget the GIRL disrupted the CLASSROOM LONG before the video camera was started. Long before like 20 minutes~! One sided view of some one sided tapping does NOT make ANY story correct. But it sure Slants it to those that are cop haters in the country.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

arabian knight said:


> Don't forget the GIRL disrupted the CLASSROOM LONG before the video camera was started. Long before like 20 minutes~! One sided view of some one sided tapping does NOT make ANY story correct. But it sure Slants it to those that are cop haters in the country.


Now I am a cop hater because I think the cop did not do his job properly? My friends who are cops would disagree with you.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

arabian knight said:


> Don't forget the GIRL disrupted the CLASSROOM LONG before the video camera was started. Long before like 20 minutes~! One sided view of some one sided tapping does NOT make ANY story correct. But it sure Slants it to those that are cop haters in the country.


Can you at least stay on the point being discussed. Everyone here is already on the same page....she was a problem and needed to be handled. We're questioning how the cop handled it. And don't generalize just because it suits you. One of the people here in line with what you call "slant" has family who are cops, and I seriously doubt that he hates cops. Nor do I. I hate a very specific attitude and mentality that seems to be attracted to the badge.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

arabian knight said:


> Don't forget the GIRL disrupted the CLASSROOM LONG before the video camera was started. Long before like 20 minutes~! One sided view of some one sided tapping does NOT make ANY story correct. But it sure Slants it to those that are cop haters in the country.


IF the cop had had to stop or prevent a physical attack on the teacher or another student, I don't think this thread would have gone anywhere. The cop is justified to use force to stop force. If the girl had been disruptive for 20 minutes or 20 hours, it does not justify the force that was used. 

From what we can see, the girl was in a desk/chair. She could not and did not initiate the violence. The cop did so when he got involved in a situation he should not have been in. The teacher needs retraining. The asst principal probably needs to be fired for calling the cop to deal with a student who is merely disruptive. 

From what we know now, I think the cop was dead wrong. But I'm used to getting partial and slanted info on the internet so I remain open to hearing more details and reversing my opinion. And thinking the cop used excessive force does not make me a cop hater. My god-son just went thru cop school. I'm glad we have good cops. I just want to see bad cops and the culture that protects them eliminated.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

mmoetc said:


> And there's a major difference between a private citizen protecting their child and a government official assaulting someone. I personally don't condone the behavior of the woman in your scenario but would you be so blasÃ© if the school resource officer had done the same? Were supposed to be protected from government abuse, not blindly accept it.


That same school resource officer slammed a kid off of a cabinet, threw him to the ground, put a knee in the urchin's back, cuffed and dragged him out of a classroom. Then threw him in a cruiser and booked his butt downtown.

The classroom teacher brought him cookies the next day.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> Apparently you haven't been reading about me at all if you think you need to tell me something. I agree that she couldn't be allowed to stay in the classroom. Do you agree that the officer lost his cool and failed to use the methods he is trained to use? Also, whether you meant it racially or not, your use of the word monkey tells me everything.


You wouldn't know a racist if he bit you on the butt. Most folks up in Yankeeland don't. They think people in the South are always thinking of new ways to tie a noose. :umno: 

"Letting the monkeys run the zoo" is a time worn expression. If you don't know what it means, look it up.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> That same school resource officer slammed a kid off of a cabinet, threw him to the ground, put a knee in the urchin's back, cuffed and dragged him out of a classroom. Then threw him in a cruiser and booked his butt downtown.
> 
> The classroom teacher brought him cookies the next day.


When you call a human being an urchin, you tell us everything. Personally, this is why I have a hard time sympathizing with y'all when you complain about rights being tread upon. It's obvious to me that you don't really value anyone you don't fully understand or identify with as actual human beings. You think you're the freedom fighters. You're not. You're as authoritarian as it gets. Kids make mistakes. You do have to expel them. You do have to punish them. They do have to understand consequences.... But what you just described is why the "liberals" overreacted to the way things used to be done in the first place; because it doesn't work, at all, it makes things worse. Again. You can't tell me what I don't know, because I already know. I worked with the absolute worst possible kids you can work with. There are things about it I won't even discuss, because their situations, their behavior, and the danger they presented to me was so unique that there is a fluke chance, albeit a fluke, that someone could actually identify them......and I don't think that's really fair to them. So I won't do it. But the only time I saw a kid really get hurt when we were in full blown physical conflicts was an accident. Throwing someone off a cabinet.........that was THE COP'S PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM......not that kid's.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> You wouldn't know a racist if he bit you on the butt. Most folks up in Yankeeland don't. They think people in the South are always thinking of new ways to tie a noose. :umno:
> 
> "Letting the monkeys run the zoo" is a time worn expression. If you don't know what it means, look it up.


I grew up in the KKK capital of the Midwest. Geraldo was arrested in the street by my Little League coach during a rally that he incited. They burned crosses in a field right next the city's outdoor pool for years, it was bought by the city and named Peace Park. Do you ever get tired of putting the FALSE in presumption? Do you?


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> I grew up in the KKK capital of the Midwest. Geraldo was arrested in the street by my Little League coach during a rally that he incited. They burned crosses in a field right next the city's outdoor pool for years, it was bought by the city and named Peace Park. Do you ever get tired of putting the FALSE in presumption? Do you?


Then if you are such an expert on racism, why do you see racism hiding behind every tree? Maybe your upbringing explains this attitude and you have been traumatized to the point where all ropes look like a noose.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wiscto said:


> I grew up in the KKK capital of the Midwest. Geraldo was arrested in the street by my Little League coach during a rally that he incited. They burned crosses in a field right next the city's outdoor pool for years, it was bought by the city and named Peace Park. Do you ever get tired of putting the FALSE in presumption? Do you?



There are many "southern" expressions that are downright rude and/or inflammatory, but it's OK because that's just what they say down there.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> Then if you are such an expert on racism, *why do you see racism hiding behind every tree?* Maybe your upbringing explains this attitude and you have been traumatized to the point where all ropes look like a noose.


I don't... So your whole post just unraveled. Why do you turn one instant where I decided to call something racism into a grand opera? "Behind every tree." Why do you see people who see racism behind every tree behind every tree?


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> When you call a human being an urchin, you tell us everything. Personally, this is why I have a hard time sympathizing with y'all when you complain about rights being tread upon. It's obvious to me that you don't really value anyone you don't fully understand or identify with as actual human beings. You think you're the freedom fighters. You're not. You're as authoritarian as it gets. Kids make mistakes. You do have to expel them. You do have to punish them. They do have to understand consequences.... But what you just described is why the "liberals" overreacted to the way things used to be done in the first place; because it doesn't work, at all, it makes things worse. Again. You can't tell me what I don't know, because I already know. I worked with the absolute worst possible kids you can work with. There are things about it I won't even discuss, because their situations, their behavior, and the danger they presented to me was so unique that there is a fluke chance, albeit a fluke, that someone could actually identify them......and I don't think that's really fair to them. So I won't do it. But the only time I saw a kid really get hurt when we were in full blown physical conflicts was an accident. Throwing someone off a cabinet.........that was THE COP'S PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM......not that kid's.


Words mean things.

I was polite in naming that kid an urchin. I should have called him a worthless, no-good, piece of gang-banging, drug-dealing, waste of human flesh.

I guess it is impressive that a young man could gather that kind of street cred before he turned 13.

Thank God for Jesus, for that will be the only way that kid keeps out of Angola. If he does make it to The Farm, he'll have plenty of company. I saw a lot of his kind yesterday...they're even too sorry to go out and work with the rest of the prisoners.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> Words mean things.


They sure do.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> I don't... So your whole post just unraveled. Why do you turn one instant where I decided to call something racism into a grand opera? "Behind every tree." Why do you see people who see racism behind every tree behind every tree?


I see somebody who sees racism behind every tree. A person who does not hesitate to jump to conclusions. A person sorely lacking in maturity and life experience, who thinks he's a heckuva lot smarter than what he is.

By any measure of life, what have you accomplished that makes you such an expert? Have you married well? Been a success raising good children? Provided for an aged mother and father? Bought and paid off a farm, by hard work, worry and an eye always on the weather and current crop prices? Have you been successful in a career? Do other people trust you to invest their money? Have you built your own home? Have you helped someone else build theirs? Do you have a long history of helping others, wishing nothing in return? Have you been destitute, and worked your way off of the bottom.

Other than run your head, what have you done in this life and with your life, that would cause me, or any other person to respect your opinion and give weight to your words?

Most of us are older guys who have done a whole bunch of the stuff above. Maybe all of it. Why don't you take some of that passion and channel it into changing your little part of the world, making a successful life and homeplace?

If you talk to people in person like you talk to them here. somebody would reach across the table and have an understanding about the finer points of civility with you. Most yankees have no concept of manners, but some are certainly more of an example of boorishness than others. Don't be that example.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> I see somebody who sees racism behind every tree. A person who does not hesitate to jump to conclusions. A person sorely lacking in maturity and life experience, who thinks he's a heckuva lot smarter than what he is.


Hey look. A person who does not hesitate to jump to conclusions. I mean you do it all the time man.... You don't know anything about me, but you regularly try to tell me about me when we interact. And you don't seem to require yourself to answer all of these questions. Being alive longer doesn't really mean much, according to your own inquiry. What have you accomplished? How does it relate to this conversation? What did building a house teach you about people in other parts of the country? What did your life teach you about people who have absolutely miserable ones?

Because I see a person who likes to say a whole lot of things when a debate doesn't go his/her way. And personally, I generally correlate that to the mentality of children. I see someone who assumes that he/she's lived a profound enough life that he can place him/herself atop the heap of opinions. I see someone who apparently can't wrap his/her mind around the word hypocrisy. I see someone who blows pretty hard about yankees, liberals, "reaching across the table."

Oh and by the way. No people don't try to teach me manners when I talk this way. Well.... A couple did. I showed them what freedom of speech means, and I was more than happy to do it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Just read about more strong legs jumping to conclusions.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Just read about more strong legs jumping to conclusions.


Me too!


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)




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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> Hey look. A person who does not hesitate to jump to conclusions. I mean you do it all the time man.... You don't know anything about me, but you regularly try to tell me about me when we interact. And you don't seem to require yourself to answer all of these questions. Being alive longer doesn't really mean much, according to your own inquiry. What have you accomplished? How does it relate to this conversation? What did building a house teach you about people in other parts of the country? What did your life teach you about people who have absolutely miserable ones?
> 
> Because I see a person who likes to say a whole lot of things when a debate doesn't go his/her way. And personally, I generally correlate that to the mentality of children. I see someone who assumes that he/she's lived a profound enough life that he can place him/herself atop the heap of opinions. I see someone who apparently can't wrap his/her mind around the word hypocrisy. I see someone who blows pretty hard about yankees, liberals, "reaching across the table."
> 
> Oh and by the way. No people don't try to teach me manners when I talk this way. Well.... A couple did. I showed them what freedom of speech means, and I was more than happy to do it.


I suggest you move South. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from manners.

And if there is anything I have learned from parts of a misspent youth is that 1)there was always somebody bigger, badder and more cruel than I was and 2) at a certain age, an old man won't fight fair, but he'll hurt you. Listen well, and maybe you'll avoid some of the knots on your head that I picked up.

Wisdom is not something you can learn from a book.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> There are many "southern" expressions that are downright rude and/or inflammatory, but it's OK because that's just what they say down there.


South or north has nuthin' to do with it. There are many common expressions in the American version of the English language considered rude in today's hyper-PC world. But once an expression becomes ingrained, it doesn't go away easily. Like how many people still call the police transport vehicle the "paddy wagon"? They don't even know what a "paddy" is, they just heard the expression their whole life.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Jolly said:


> I see somebody who sees racism behind every tree. A person who does not hesitate to jump to conclusions. A person sorely lacking in maturity and life experience, who thinks he's a heckuva lot smarter than what he is.
> 
> By any measure of life, what have you accomplished that makes you such an expert? Have you married well? Been a success raising good children? Provided for an aged mother and father? Bought and paid off a farm, by hard work, worry and an eye always on the weather and current crop prices? Have you been successful in a career? Do other people trust you to invest their money? Have you built your own home? Have you helped someone else build theirs? Do you have a long history of helping others, wishing nothing in return? Have you been destitute, and worked your way off of the bottom.
> 
> ...


well said! That might be the best post you ever made.


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## light rain (Jan 14, 2013)

Arabian Knight, while I agree the current generation does not have a clear vision of their place in society what that policeman did was brutality IMO. 

If that girl were my child I would have been harsh on her disrespect to a LEO but with his reaction I would be procuring the best lawyer I could find. There is NO EXCUSE for that level of force against a HS student or anyone without a weapon.

His actions may well provoke needless conflict between the races and cause more heartache and liability awards...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MO_cows said:


> South or north has nuthin' to do with it. There are many common expressions in the American version of the English language considered rude in today's hyper-PC world. But once an expression becomes ingrained, it doesn't go away easily. Like how many people still call the police transport vehicle the "paddy wagon"? They don't even know what a "paddy" is, they just heard the expression their whole life.


I agree that north, south, west, or politically correct (hyper or the plain kind) have nothing to do with it, people that say nasty, inflammatory things are just rude. They may use the excuse of it's "common/customary where I live" but it's just plain ol' rude. Maybe they weren't raised correctly, maybe they're arrogant, maybe they just don't care. Who knows? 

Paddy wagon? Of course an Irish Pixie knows what a paddy is.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> I suggest you move South. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from manners.
> 
> And if there is anything I have learned from parts of a misspent youth is that 1)there was always somebody bigger, badder and more cruel than I was and 2) at a certain age, an old man won't fight fair, but he'll hurt you. Listen well, and maybe you'll avoid some of the knots on your head that I picked up.
> 
> Wisdom is not something you can learn from a book.


First of all, I'm not surprised that someone taught you that lesson, but I'm surprised that you think you learned it. I'm surprised that you think the "daddy knows best, y'all are ignorant now come to my breast and here ye what I shall teach you" manner of speaking you use is at all representative of good manners. I'm surprised that you complain about PC in today's world when you obviously can't handle someone who chooses not to be PC. 

Your tough guy talk means absolutely nothing to me. It really does. I know plenty about who is out there in the world, and if I started giving examples this would be a 5 page post. So I just don't care man. I'm honestly just laughing at the fact that you felt the need to say it. It's funny. It really is.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> I agree that north, south, west, or politically correct (hyper or the plain kind) have nothing to do with it, people that say nasty, inflammatory things are just rude. They may use the excuse of it's "common/customary where I live" but it's just plain ol' rude. Maybe they weren't raised correctly, maybe they're arrogant, maybe they just don't care. Who knows?
> 
> Paddy wagon? Of course an Irish Pixie knows what a paddy is.


I'll just agree to disagree, because if there was no intention to be rude, if the expression is just ingrained into the vernacular and its original, unpleasant meaning has slipped into antiquity, then the person using the expression doesn't mean any harm. Often times an expression is, just an expression.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

MO_cows said:


> I'll just agree to disagree, because if there was no intention to be rude, if the expression is just ingrained into the vernacular and its original, unpleasant meaning has slipped into antiquity, then the person using the expression doesn't mean any harm. Often times an expression is, just an expression.


Yea. I used to say, "Well that was just retarded" a lot. Learned not to. I honestly didn't really think of people when I said it. I think I looked it up once when I was a kid because some older kids said it, and even though I knew people used that word for the mentally disabled, I just assumed that the word had more than one meaning. Apparently not in most peoples books. Missed out on a hot date once because of that little misunderstanding. Oops.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

MO_cows said:


> I'll just agree to disagree, because if there was no intention to be rude, if the expression is just ingrained into the vernacular and its original, unpleasant meaning has slipped into antiquity, then the person using the expression doesn't mean any harm. Often times an expression is, just an expression.


Another example is when you grew up. Growing up in late 60's we went from ******* to Black as an acceptable term. And that is the one that is ingrained in my brain and what I use. And I realize some people may take offence, when none is intended. Same from Indian to Native. Now up here they are First Nation. So what I think I am saying is I agree with you.

But saying that of course there are words that were and still are offensive and should be avoided.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

MO_cows said:


> I'll just agree to disagree, because if there was no intention to be rude, if the expression is just ingrained into the vernacular and its original, unpleasant meaning has slipped into antiquity, then the person using the expression doesn't mean any harm. Often times an expression is, just an expression.



Gotta agree with you, I don't have time nor interest in picking apart everything said to me. If the person isn't confrontational I just don't care. 

Life is good!


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wiscto said:


> Yea. I used to say, "Well that was just retarded" a lot. Learned not to. I honestly didn't really think of people when I said it. I think I looked it up once when I was a kid because some older kids said it, and even though I knew people used that word for the mentally disabled, I just assumed that the word had more than one meaning. Apparently not in most peoples books. Missed out on a hot date once because of that little misunderstanding. Oops.


Totally funny. My wife, son and myself were sitting around trying to figure out what the proper term was for that now. We came up with "mentally challenged" but that didn't sound good, so now I know.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

My, look at all the racists, dullards and simple-minded folks:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=monkeys running the zoo


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> First of all, I'm not surprised that someone taught you that lesson, but I'm surprised that you think you learned it. I'm surprised that you think the "daddy knows best, y'all are ignorant now come to my breast and here ye what I shall teach you" manner of speaking you use is at all representative of good manners. I'm surprised that you complain about PC in today's world when you obviously can't handle someone who chooses not to be PC.
> 
> Your tough guy talk means absolutely nothing to me. It really does. I know plenty about who is out there in the world, and if I started giving examples this would be a 5 page post. So I just don't care man. I'm honestly just laughing at the fact that you felt the need to say it. It's funny. It really is.


There is no tough guy talk in what I said. I said if you insist on being uncivil, somebody down here would reach across the table and show you the error of your ways.

You can be politically incorrect and not be a Bill Mahrer wannbe...


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> There is no tough guy talk in what I said. I said if you insist on being uncivil, somebody down here would reach across the table and show you the error of your ways.
> 
> You can be politically incorrect and not be a Bill Mahrer wannbe...


Nah. They wouldn't. It's just you.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> Nah. They wouldn't. It's just you.


If I was you, I'd put me on ignore. Would do wonders for your blood pressure.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Going back and reading through this thread, I'm struck by a singularity...Most (not all) of the folks defending the student's actions and screaming about her civil rights being violated, would have no problem at all with killing her in the womb.

Perhaps an unborn child has no rights, acquires a few at birth and continues to acquire rights until the age of majority.

Interesting concept...


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Post 189, 190, 192, 194



painterswife said:


> No it is not. He disrupted the classroom far more than taking the rest of the students out.
> 
> Who needs to dial down the drama? *No need to start that with me or you will find out what drama is.*


Really now.......what exactly are you 'threatening' me with?
Because your word selection and your grouping of words, sound like a threat to me?
Care to change your selection or grouping?
If not, do, please tell, what you are threatening me with????


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> If I was you, I'd put me on ignore. Would do wonders for your blood pressure.


So you're having blood pressure issues?


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Jolly said:


> Going back and reading through this thread, I'm struck by a singularity...Most (not all) of the folks defending the student's actions and screaming about her civil rights being violated, would have no problem at all with killing her in the womb.
> 
> Perhaps an unborn child has no rights, acquires a few at birth and continues to acquire rights until the age of majority.
> 
> Interesting concept...


Well to most of us, we absolutely no connection between the two. But anti-abortion people seem to find a connection everywhere.

And I don't see too many people defending the student at all, just the saying that excessive force was used.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

MO_cows said:


> I'll just agree to disagree, because if there was no intention to be rude, if the expression is just ingrained into the vernacular and its original, unpleasant meaning has slipped into antiquity, then the person using the expression doesn't mean any harm. Often times an expression is, just an expression.


There may well be an intention to be rude. The poster in question seems to use a lot of unpleasant words and phrases. He's quick to fall back on the "it's common here" excuse when he's called on it. 

Rude is rude, no matter where you live.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> Post 189, 190, 192, 194
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was right there in English. I could enlighten you about drama. No need to change anything . I made no threat.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> It was right there in English. I could enlighten you about drama. No need to change anything . I made no threat.


Well coached, well prepped response.

Correct, your English seems pretty clear to me.......


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> So you're having blood pressure issues?


Me?

Nope, nary a problem. In fact, disgustingly healthy.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

keenataz said:


> Well to most of us, we absolutely no connection between the two. But anti-abortion people seem to find a connection everywhere.
> 
> And I don't see too many people defending the student at all, just the saying that excessive force was used.


Shucks, I think that most everybody agrees the cop probably used more force than necessary. But...once a teacher has told you to quit and has been ignored. Once the principal has been called, tries to reason with a student and is ignored...Well, when the cop gets a bit physical, too tough buttercup, you brought this one on yourself. What happens, happens.

As for the abortion connection...I see it. I don't know if it's most of us or not, but you look at some of the passionate responses, put those names in one column or another and see how it stacks up.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> When you call a human being an urchin, you tell us everything. Personally, this is why I have a hard time sympathizing with y'all when you complain about rights being tread upon. It's obvious to me that you don't really value anyone you don't fully understand or identify with as actual human beings. You think you're the freedom fighters. You're not. You're as authoritarian as it gets. Kids make mistakes. You do have to expel them. You do have to punish them. They do have to understand consequences.... But what you just described is why the "liberals" overreacted to the way things used to be done in the first place; because it doesn't work, at all, it makes things worse. Again. You can't tell me what I don't know, because I already know. I worked with the absolute worst possible kids you can work with. There are things about it I won't even discuss, because their situations, their behavior, and the danger they presented to me was so unique that there is a fluke chance, albeit a fluke, that someone could actually identify them......and I don't think that's really fair to them. So I won't do it. But the only time I saw a kid really get hurt when we were in full blown physical conflicts was an accident. Throwing someone off a cabinet.........that was THE COP'S PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEM......not that kid's.


Talked to my daughter this evening. She actually laughed at your naivete'.

Oh, the kid that I was talking about, the one the cop cuffed?

He's 12 this year.

Killed his first man:

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/10/alexandria_boy_air_gun_murder.html

Right now, the charges are negligent homicide. I suspect they'll be murder, before all is said and done.

Urchin sounds so much nicer than murderer, doesn't it?


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

As I've been reading, I'd like to ask a question, Do children have rights? When I was growing up I got the impression that minors didn't really have rights as we were under control of adults. It is true that I wouldn't expect to be abused, yet if I got out of line I could expect the teacher to apply "the board of education" to me. Or if the teacher didn't want to I would expect it from my parents. Maybe kids do have rights and I never knew... 

Second question, what has gone wrong that so many kids are so bad today, I don't remember these problems when I was a kid. Thing have certainly changed, as we never had police officers in school in my youth, but the high school here has them now. What happened? (hopefully this will change the direction of this discussion away from bickering about each others behavior  ) I have my own ideas, what are yours...


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Not sure about rights, but I would assume you still can't touch them unless they give ok. Or it would be assault. Yes it is different than when I was in school in 60s & 70s. 

As far as kids today,I think it is so many things. One is as we grow older we forget there were problem kids when we were kids. But that's not all of it. I would think there cultural influences now, absentee parents and the next guy can probably lust more.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Jolly said:


> Perhaps an unborn child has no rights, acquires a few at birth and continues to acquire rights until the age of majority.
> 
> Interesting concept...


Thats just about how it's always been, glad to see you are getting the idea.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> Talked to my daughter this evening. She actually laughed at your naivete'.
> 
> Oh, the kid that I was talking about, the one the cop cuffed?
> 
> ...


Again. The job doesn't call for personal justice. You do the job. You do what's necessary for the job. If he had to throw the kid off a cabinet or whatever else he did. Okay. If he didn't.... Not okay. It really isn't that hard. Naivete? I worked with worse than that kid.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

BlackFeather said:


> As I've been reading, I'd like to ask a question, Do children have rights? When I was growing up I got the impression that minors didn't really have rights as we were under control of adults. It is true that I wouldn't expect to be abused, yet if I got out of line I could expect the teacher to apply "the board of education" to me. Or if the teacher didn't want to I would expect it from my parents. Maybe kids do have rights and I never knew...
> 
> Second question, what has gone wrong that so many kids are so bad today, I don't remember these problems when I was a kid. Thing have certainly changed, as we never had police officers in school in my youth, but the high school here has them now. What happened? (hopefully this will change the direction of this discussion away from bickering about each others behavior  ) I have my own ideas, what are yours...



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Over many pages, I saw the same insight, I just quoted this one as a good representative of the many.


I had a question about the acceptance of the level of force used in proportion to the offense.
While I don't think it's a good answer, at least it makes it more understandable to me, anyways.
Basically, things have been allowed to go so far to one extreme, that when an action is finally taken, it is all the way at the other end of the extreme.
In some minds, it makes it balance out.:shrug:

I was raised like some of y'all. If you misbehaved in class, you went to the front, grabbed you ankles and took a few swats on the rear end. If your parents got wind of it, like there was even a chance they wouldn't, you got some more when you got home. God forbid your parents were teachers too, cuz there was no appeals process in THAT courtroom, lol.

Letting the undisciplined get to the age of high schoolers and the road to trouble is a well worn path.
I still don't agree in the hammer being that big between the cops and kids, but a lot of the blame was what did or didn't happen years before.
The parents have to do their job, and the teacher's theirs. That way the cops can go catch the adult offenders and leave the discipline where it needs to be.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> Again. The job doesn't call for personal justice. You do the job. You do what's necessary for the job. If he had to throw the kid off a cabinet or whatever else he did. Okay. If he didn't.... Not okay. It really isn't that hard. Naivete? I worked with worse than that kid.


You worked with 12 year old murderers?


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

BlackFeather said:


> As I've been reading, I'd like to ask a question, Do children have rights? When I was growing up I got the impression that minors didn't really have rights as we were under control of adults. It is true that I wouldn't expect to be abused, yet if I got out of line I could expect the teacher to apply "the board of education" to me. Or if the teacher didn't want to I would expect it from my parents. Maybe kids do have rights and I never knew...
> 
> Second question, what has gone wrong that so many kids are so bad today, I don't remember these problems when I was a kid. Thing have certainly changed, as we never had police officers in school in my youth, but the high school here has them now. What happened? (hopefully this will change the direction of this discussion away from bickering about each others behavior  ) I have my own ideas, what are yours...


Let me tell you a few things that have changed the classroom and not for the good.

1. There have always been kids coming out of tough situations. But not like today. More and more of these kids are coming from single parent households, where the parent that is left, is working (if they are working) too much to make ends meet to properly raise a child. These kids have watched divorces tear their homes up, or they have been raised in a hook-up culture where some may not even know who their fathers are. When I went to school, a kid coming from a two parent home was the norm. Now, they are the minority. Yet, people still scoff and preach about freedom and rights, simultaneously ignoring any responsibilities that come with making babies. We are raising kids in sub-optimal conditions and calling it good. It's not.

2. Teachers no longer have control of their classrooms. We have mandatory inclusion. we have kids that are mandated to attend, but do not want to be there. the schools are under heavy pressure not to show these malcontents the street, so a teacher may take a child to the principal's office and the child will usually beat her back to the classroom, while she is still filling out paperwork. In my day, if you had a kid that was simply uncontrollable, the school showed him the door. Please leave and don't come back. The subject of this thread sounds like a prime candidate for the don't-let-the-door-hit-you-in-the-back award. A teacher cannot teach with a disruptive force like this in the classroom.

Ain't like this in college. There is a professor at NSU, who is famous for his intolerance of cellphones and will tell you so the first day of class, where he outlines his policy on phones. If he catches you on your cellphone while in class, he gives you the choice, surrender the phone or take a "F" for the semester. Usually, the student surrenders the phone. He'll take the phone, place it on his desk, reach in the desk drawer for a hammer and smash the phone. Lecture will continue amongst the rubble. Funny thing about his class...he only has to demolish one cell phone every few years...Students get the word very quickly, put their phones on vibrate if they must(most just turn them off), and quietly slip out of the room to check the phone. He is the master of his domain and the monkeys understand exactly who is running the zoo.

3. People, in general, have lost respect for authority. No, a free person doesn't have to bow down in front of a law officer or elected official. But people need to have some respect and a lot of folks need a good dose of manners. Having just a touch of humility, an occasional yes sir or no ma'am and I'm sorry or thank you can go a long way when dealing with authority.

There's three reasons. There are more, but I think these are primary.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Thats just about how it's always been, glad to see you are getting the idea.


So much for that "inalienable" stuff they taught me in school...


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Jolly said:


> You worked with 12 year old murderers?


Again. I would be concerned about giving details. So... Just to drop the hint one more time. Gang related crimes are bad, including murder. I worked with worse. Not everyone I worked with was worse..... But I worked with worse. I actually preferred dealing with the little gangbangers, to be honest. There's a rationale there. It's a messed up one, but it's there, and it's mostly predictable.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Students Protest! 

Good for them.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Spring Valley High School has an enrollment of approximately 2100 students in grades 9-12. 

That's a huge amount of support for Deputy Fields. Just saying'


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

According to an interview I saw, many students and alumni referred to him as Officer Slam and he wasn't overly popular although I also read he was a football coach at the school as well.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wr said:


> According to an interview I saw, many students and alumni referred to him as Officer Slam and he wasn't overly popular although I also read he was a football coach at the school as well.


I heard there was a protest in support of Fields and several hundred students, some of whom were present at the incident, walked out of class, saying they think he should be rehired (Although I know he won't be)

http://www.youngcons.com/breaking-tons-of-students-walk-out-in-protestover-officer-who-was-fired/



> Hundreds of students walked out of Spring Valley High School in Columbia, South Carolina on Friday morning in support of the deputy sheriff who was fired after violently arresting a black student. Students reportedly chanted âFree Fieldsâ in support of Ben Fields, a school resource officer and football coach who was caught on tape forcibly removing a black student from her desk, allegedly because she was disrupting class.
> 
> The students walked into the school atrium and then returned to class after administrators addressed them.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I just saw what Po Boy posted.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/st...red-deputy-at-sc-school/ar-BBmD3GJ?li=AAa0dzB

In a way that's a good thing, it looks like the students were just as fed up with the disruption and aren't holding it against the deputy.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

Good thing officer Fields wasn't there, he'd a beat the crap out of every one of them. 

You really need to read the whole report to truly appreciate the dichotomy. It's pretty hilarious, if you think about it.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

wiscto said:


> Again. I would be concerned about giving details. So... Just to drop the hint one more time. Gang related crimes are bad, including murder. I worked with worse. Not everyone I worked with was worse..... But I worked with worse. I actually preferred dealing with the little gangbangers, to be honest. There's a rationale there. It's a messed up one, but it's there, and it's mostly predictable.


Ok, I understand. OTOH, I gave you everything, but a name. The kid was bad, had been bad and he stayed bad, until he killed somebody.

Those kids are out there and they are in many of our local school districts. The question becomes how do you handle them, when they refuse to bend to authority? And the corollary is, if we want them handled by any means necessary, why are we so quick to blame authority figures when push comes to shove?


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

From a friend, "So if you tell all the kids at any given high school that they can cut class without punishment in order to show support for any particular cause and the majority choose not to is that a walkout or a sit in?"


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

vicker said:


> Good thing officer Fields wasn't there, he'd a beat the crap out of every one of them.
> 
> You really need to read the whole report to truly appreciate the dichotomy. It's pretty hilarious, if you think about it.


Ironic isn't it?
Disrupting class to show support for a guy called in to stop a classroom disruption.
:hohum:

It just goes to show, it's all in how you handle a bad situation.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

https://www.rt.com/usa/320204-students-protest-school-officer-firing/


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Jolly said:


> So much for that "inalienable" stuff they taught me in school...


Taking a guess here but I doubt you really feel a four year old should have all of the rights an adult enjoys, diving a car? Drinking alcohol? Should ten year olds be able to vote? Those inalienable rights you heard about in school apply to mature adults who should be able to make intelligent desicions.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Taking a guess here but I doubt you really feel a four year old should have all of the rights an adult enjoys, diving a car? Drinking alcohol? Should ten year olds be able to vote? Those inalienable rights you heard about in school apply to mature adults who should be able to make intelligent desicions.


Yep, my dad taught me that before I ever learned that all my "rights" didn't kick in until age 18.
"Son, when you can pay your own bills and work everyday, you can do what you want. Until then............:hammer:"

Fortunately, kids are covered under the parent's rights. This comes with the coincidental responsibilities.
That's why a parent has first right of refusal to discipline their children. But if they don't, then someone else has to do it for them, because some of us don't put up with foolish adults either.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

But she was not a kid.
She was 18, and that makes her an 'adult'.......

It looks like a lot of the students want this officer back?
A lot of black students, want this white officer back..........

What is going on?


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

farmrbrown said:


> Yep, my dad taught me that before I ever learned that all my "rights" didn't kick in until age 18.
> "Son, when you can pay your own bills and work everyday, you can do what you want. Until then............:hammer:"


I was raised if I stepped out of line before I was 18, it fell on THEIR heads, and both my mom and dad made it VERY clear, they were not interested in cleaning up or paying the price for my mistakes.
At 16 they threw me out; at 17 the signed off on me and was married.
They couldn't wait to 'not be responsible' for me!!

My talk w/ my kids was the opposite: Once you turn 18.....the law won't let me help. You are 100% responsible for you, and it never goes away if you make a misatake.....choose wisely.



> Fortunately, kids are covered under the parent's rights. This comes with the coincidental responsibilities.
> That's why a parent has first right of refusal to discipline their children. But if they don't, then someone else has to do it for them, because some of us don't put up with foolish adults either.


If the courts would stop ordering pays outs, people would stop seeing 'lawsuits as winning lotto tickets'.
Cut off the money and people will stop 'suing' instead of working.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Taking a guess here but I doubt you really feel a four year old should have all of the rights an adult enjoys, diving a car? Drinking alcohol? Should ten year olds be able to vote? Those inalienable rights you heard about in school apply to mature adults who should be able to make intelligent desicions.


*We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness*

So...Some rights are God Given and have nothing to do with the whims of man...ALL people should have the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> But she was not a kid.
> She was 18, and that makes her an 'adult'.......
> 
> It looks like a lot of the students want this officer back?
> ...


Everything I've read says she is a 16 year old *kid*. 

Where did you find she's 18?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> But she was not a kid.
> She was 18, and that makes her an 'adult'.......
> 
> It looks like a lot of the students want this officer back?
> ...


It's just the left's war on cops
If this girl had been white, we would have never heard about it.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Jolly said:


> *We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness*
> 
> So...Some rights are God Given and have nothing to do with the whims of man...ALL people should have the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


You ain't a "man" til you turn 18, at least in this country.......or at least until you are able to step in a man's shoes and take a good punch.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> It's just the left's war on cops
> If this girl had been white, we would have never heard about it.


BUT ALL THE KIDS supporting this officer (hundreds) ARE BLACK!!!!!!!

I don't give a frogs fart about left or right.

We have a cop, who was fired, for man handling 1 kid.
We have HUNDREDS of kids, who are so upset that this cop was fired they staged a PEACEFUL protest.

I don't care about black white left right boy girl.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> Everything I've read says she is a 16 year old *kid*.
> 
> Where did you find she's 18?


Lott also said theyâve gotten their hands on a third video of Mondayâs mayhem which shows the 18-year-old senior âhitting the school resource officer with her fists.â

if she is a senior, 18 would be about right...


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

po boy said:


> Lott also said theyâve gotten their hands on a third video of Mondayâs mayhem which shows the 18-year-old senior âhitting the school resource officer with her fists.â
> 
> if she is a senior, 18 would be about right...


I apologize......I read an article that said she was 18, but it has since been changed to 16.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I apologize......I read an article that said she was 18, but it has since been changed to 16.


No apology is necessary. I've read both ages as well, and thought it came out conclusively that she was 16.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

po boy said:


> Lott also said theyâve gotten their hands on a third video of Mondayâs mayhem which shows the 18-year-old senior âhitting the school resource officer with her fists.â
> 
> if she is a senior, 18 would be about right...


That video isn't out on the internet. Even with that, the sheriff still fired his deputy. 

It's interesting to read the various accounts. I first expected to see a video of the student being thrown tough the air. Another said she was attacked. What seemed obvious to me was the chair tipped over when the deputy tried to remove her. Then he had to separate her from the chair which involved him pulling her along the floor.

The question I have is did the sheriff take the easy way out? Since Trayvon Martin and Ferguson, law enforcement has had to face the fact that the PR aspects of their job can escalate rapidly. All a sheriff or chief needs is outsider driven riots in their jurisdiction to make their lives a living hell.

I was glad to see the student walk out in support of the deputy. Obviously things are not cut and dried yet.


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## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

If this had been your daughter how would you feel? Yes she was disrespectful and not doing what the officer told her- to put down her phone. But, the way he manhandled her was offensive and wrong. It's sad he lost his job because of this disrespectful student. Yet she was a student. She was not a criminal, she was not threatening him, she was not endangering others, she had no weapon, she was a 16 year old girl. Many think he should be charged with assault- I agree.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

shellybo said:


> If this had been your daughter how would you feel? Yes she was disrespectful and not doing what the officer told her- to put down her phone. But, the way he manhandled her was offensive and wrong. It's sad he lost his job because of this disrespectful student. Yet she was a student. She was not a criminal, she was not threatening him, she was not endangering others, she had no weapon, she was a 16 year old girl. Many think he should be charged with assault- I agree.


If she were my DD she'd be grounded til she graduated. If that ever could happen in this girl's life.


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## Laura Zone 5 (Jan 13, 2010)

shellybo said:


> If this had been your daughter how would you feel?


It's tough to say.
None of my kids would ever disrespect an adult the way this girl did.
But all of my kids were loved, taught, trained, disciplined, did I mention loved?
This little girl didn't have the same kind of upbrining that my kids had.
So I can't compare.



> Yes she was disrespectful and not doing what the officer told her- to put down her phone. But, the way he manhandled her was offensive and wrong.


I would like to see what the schools written policy and procedure they have in place for situations such as this.
Did he exceed the schools written p&p?
Did he follow p&p?



> It's sad he lost his job because of this disrespectful student. Yet she was a student. She was not a criminal, she was not threatening him, she was not endangering others, she had no weapon, she was a 16 year old girl.


She was not 'endangering' others, but she was causing a gross disruption in the education of 30 other students.
When I steal a loaf of bread to feed my kids, I am not endangering anyone, but I am still breaking the rules / law.

(( What I am doing is robbing someone of their property. SHE was robbing the other students of their education because the teacher had to stop the process and deal w/ her ))

IF the teacher allows ONE student to get away with breaking the rules, anarchy will ensue. 
You can't "ignore her" because kids will sniff that 'weakness' out in a teacher then expose it.
SHE NEEDED to leave so that the teacher could maintain control of the classroom.




> Many think he should be charged with assault- I agree.


I would like to see the schools policy and procedure for this type of situation.
THEN
I would like to see the police departments policy and procedure for this type of situation.
THEN 
I would like to see the medical report that documents her injuries.

Then, I would make a decision on "charges" or not.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

If that were my daughter, I agree with what Tricky Grama said - she'd be grounded for life. Seriously there would be some BIG consequences to that kind of disrespect. They would be lucky that I didn't do the same thing the cop did but I'd hurt my back so I have to fall back on other consequences.


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## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

Laura Zone 10 said.....

SHE NEEDED to leave so that the teacher could maintain control of the classroom.

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I agree, she did need to leave. My brother was a math teacher in an inner city junior high school several years ago. I say "was" because he lost his mind  He started off wanting to save the world and help the kids. Yet on a daily basis he encountered bad, disrespectful and disruptive kids. There was always one student causing problems. Many times he wanted to slap one of them but he never did. He got ulcers, turned grey in his 30's and left that teaching job. I give teachers a lot of credit since they have to teach and discipline and raise kids who were not raised at home.


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## shellybo (Nov 9, 2013)

Laura Zone 10 said:


> I would like to see what the schools written policy and procedure they have in place for situations such as this.
> Did he exceed the schools written p&p?
> Did he follow p&p?



Suspect the school policy would never condone what was done in this case for liability reasons. Don't think there is a Police policy which would be in line with the level of force he used in this situation. Police are suppose to maintain control of their emotions in order to get situations under control. They are called for "problems" so if they are out of control then what's the point?


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

shellybo said:


> Suspect the school policy would never condone what was done in this case for liability reasons. Don't think there is a Police policy which would be in line with the level of force he used in this situation. Police are suppose to maintain control of their emotions in order to get situations under control. They are called for "problems" so if they are out of control then what's the point?


Ands NOBODY has seen what happened 20 Minutes BEFORE the tape was beefing recorded either. NOBODY KNOWS what the heck went on either. And just how badly that girl was behaving~!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

arabian knight said:


> Ands NOBODY has seen what happened 20 Minutes BEFORE the tape was beefing recorded either. NOBODY KNOWS what the heck went on either. And just how badly that girl was behaving~!


How badly could she have behaved? She is a girl after all, you know the kind... Sugar and spice and everything nice!


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Y'all still jumping to conclusions about her behavior before the video? Ironic, isn't it? You wanted to make sure we knew that we didn't see what happened before the video so we wouldn't speculate. And here you are speculating on what you didn't see. Ain't that special how y'all witnessed her behavior without seeing it, and now you're in a position to judge our simple conclusion that the cop went over the top...regardless of her behavior? Failure to connect the dots, and failure to follow through on your own logic.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

There's nothing a little girl could do to me that I would act like that unless her hand was on my gun. I could of had her laying face down and cuffed with a lot less violence. My Dad was a cop and would of grabbed her wrist and had her being submissive in no time.


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## vicker (Jul 11, 2003)

oneraddad said:


> There's nothing a little girl could do to me that I would act like that unless her hand was on my gun. I could of had her laying face down and cuffed with a lot less violence. My Dad was a cop and would of grabbed her wrist and had her being submissive in no time.



Thank you.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> There's nothing a little girl could do to me that I would act like that unless her hand was on my gun. I could of had her laying face down and cuffed with a lot less violence. My Dad was a cop and would of grabbed her wrist and had her being submissive in no time.


It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and say how much better one could have done something.

He got the job done, and everyone else wants to whine about it

Your Dad would have done it by using pain instead.
It's not different nor better


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and say how much better one could have done something.
> 
> He got the job done, and everyone else wants to whine about it
> 
> ...


If I had behaved in such a manner my teacher would have handled it... Involving an ear twist which involved pain. With any luck my dad would never have gotten wind of such nonsense as he would have inflicted a whole lot more pain involving his belt and my posterior! 

Seriously there should have been no need to have a cop involved. The teacher should have been enabled to take care of the situation.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's easy to sit behind a keyboard and say how much better one could have done something.
> 
> He got the job done, and everyone else wants to whine about it
> 
> ...



My way would of been much more controlled with less chance of someone being seriously injured. If you think throwing a little girl through the air is getting the job done, then I'll just disagree.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

oneraddad said:


> *My way would of been much more controlled *with less chance of someone being seriously injured. If you think throwing a little girl through the air is getting the job done, then I'll just disagree.


It's easy to *say *things like that, but there's no way to prove it so it's pointless

He never "threw her through the air"
He snatched her out of the desk in which she was entangled due to her struggling

He had asked her nicely to get up, and he reached for her arm but she pulled away.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

It's not WWF and I bet a jury will see it my way.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> If I had behaved in such a manner my teacher would have handled it... Involving an ear twist which involved pain. With any luck my dad would never have gotten wind of such nonsense as he would have inflicted a whole lot more pain involving his belt and my posterior!
> 
> Seriously there should have been no need to have a cop involved. The teacher should have been enabled to take care of the situation.


That's really the main point. Back in the day, there were any number of teachers, coaches, or assistant principals that would have handled discipline problems quicker than a 50 yard dash. LOL
There had to be a murder or a bomb threat to see a cop called in to a school.

"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!"


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

farmrbrown said:


> That's really the main point. Back in the day, there were any number of teachers, coaches, or assistant principals that would have handled discipline problems quicker than a 50 yard dash. LOL
> There had to be a murder or a bomb threat to see a cop called in to a school.
> 
> "Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!"


We never had any killings happen in our school so that was never an issue. Did have a few explosions, kids will do the goofiest things in high school shop class, whooda thunk a ballon filled with acetaline and oxygen would make so much racket when ignited?! No one injured but it did rattle some windows and got a severe reprimand from the principal. Something about paying for any broken windows. not too sure what else he was on about, couldn't hear him very well with all that ringing in my ears. daddy didn't find out about that incident until a couple years ago.


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