# question about guard dogs



## BamaSuzy (May 10, 2002)

As we are hoping to finish fencing in a larger pasture area, I need guard animal and know of several near me that have had good luck with Great Pyranees dogs. Some have told me that you have to put them with the animals (in my case goats) when you get them as puppies and NOT make pets of the dogs.....others have spoiled their dogs rotten and they still guard their animals....

What is the best way to approach this?


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

You can do it either way. I know of plenty of perfectly wonderful Guardian animals that are also loved by their family members. My Isaac is a perfect example. He loves his sheep and is really good with them (his brother isn't as good quite yet, but he will get there). Isaac goes to Tractor Supply with me a couple times a month and is very affectionate towards me and all of my family members. And yet he's still a good guardian and a GREAT watch dog. So yes....they need to bond with the livestock, but there is nothing wrong with letting them bond to you, as long as you keep it reasonable and don't let them lounge around on the couch in the air conditioning all day. Let them live with the stock but also let them know they are loved. It will make handling them as adults so much easier.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> NOT make pets of the dogs..


That doesn't mean YOU can't love on them.

Too me , it means you don't "socialize" them to accept *strangers or other dogs*, and you don't let them stay in the house or run loose

Their FIRST duty should be protecting their animals, and the more time they spend with them, the better they will do that job


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

I did limited socializing while raising mine. Being able to handle the dog in case of emergency, grooming, vet appts., etc. is important. At the same time you don't want the dog to prefer human and house over the livestock.


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## CornerstoneAcre (Mar 10, 2011)

this is an interesting thread and I'm definately going to keep an eye on it as I'm very interested in the answers you receive. Our first Great Pyrenees puppy arrives in two weeks.
Barbadosheep - I'm glad you posted that answer. So far to date I have talked to one breeder that was very adamant about not doing anything besides very minimal socialization. However the breeder I am getting my girl from has a very friendly, social dog (mom to my puppy). The sire is a bit more tied to the goats (as in he's not allowed out). I do know of one other goat owner that actually keeps her's indoors and are more of a "farm dog", but do guard the entire property.
I'm hoping to also have more of a farm dog. She'll stay outside, live with the goats but be well socialized with people and the family. (my biggest predator problem around here is NOT the two legged kind).


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

I heard a story once of a LGD that was SO wild it had to be trapped in order to give it shots once a year. I have heard of many horror stories of these dogs that you couldn't get your hands on. I just read of a dog today that when they had to take her to the vet, they had to load a bunch of her sheep up in a trailer so they could get her in the trailer. And then they'd take the whole load to the vet. Who would want a dog like that! I know of plenty of these dogs who are multi purpose animals that will love and protect the farm and the livestock. Eli and Isaac are both used to being switched around from pasture to pasture. Sometimes they are alone, sometimes together. I want them to accept these changes in their duties and so far, they do handle the changes well. They are bonded to me, but they dearly love their sheep too. They are in their teen-age period right now so we are working on an issue that Eli has. He loves his sheep so much he wants to play with them. They don't want to play so they run....which makes him chase. A shock collar will be here mid-week and Eli will learn he is not allowed to play with the sheep. Eli and Isaac love having their sheep with them and stay with them when the sheep are in the pasture.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

Bama, you've got to love your dogs and be a good shepherd and take time with them, they are not an instant fix, so know that what ever you get, you still have to spend TIME with them.

Shock collars....be careful you don't end up making your pup think the sheep are the source of the shock..... I never did try one, just couldn't bring myself to do it. Too much can go wrong. I still think you need to be spending more time out there. PLAYING IS NORMAL FOR PUPPIES....just work through it..... You shouldn't be leaving them alone this young....


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## Batt (Sep 8, 2006)

IMHO, I completely agree with Barbados Sheep. You want them to be bound to the livestock being guarded, but be happy around you and the family. It's kind of a delicate mix. Batt lives full time with the goats, I trust him to handle about any problem unless it requires thumbs. But he comes bounding whenever DW or I appear. If you can see the goats, you can bet he is nearby, or if you can find him, the goats are not too far away.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

Batt said:


> IMHO, I completely agree with Barbados Sheep. You want them to be bound to the livestock being guarded, but be happy around you and the family. It's kind of a delicate mix. Batt lives full time with the goats, I trust him to handle about any problem unless it requires thumbs. But he comes bounding whenever DW or I appear. If you can see the goats, you can bet he is nearby, or if you can find him, the goats are not too far away.



exactly....it's a delicate mix. You can't treat them just like you would the family pet, but you don't just throw them in the pasture and never speak to them either. I adore my pups too much to do that to them. I love these dogs just like I do my family pets, only these dogs have jobs too.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Yep, I have a friend with some GP. One of the old ones won't come near people. It got some wire around a leg one time, he had to get some knockout pills from the vet to hide in the food and sedate it. That's not a good way to run dogs.


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## MonsterMalak (Apr 15, 2011)

My experience with LGDs started with 16 years of running Pyrenees, and the past 8 years of using Kangals. My adventure with the Boz has been in the past 15 months.

As far as with the question as to allow them to bond to humans or not,,,, I feel that all the breeds will protect the farm with greater effort if they are allowed to bond to the family.

And if nothing else, they are more easily cared for and managed. Also with a well socialized dog, visitors will not be at risk of being viewed as a threat by the LGD.

I have used shock collars in the past, to break young LGDs from killing chickens. It may have been beneficial to make the dog think that the chickens were hurting them. Would think that to have a dog think the livestock were hurting it may create more problems. 

Tough questions with that problem of chasing... I would try to only allow the dog with the livestock when under direct suppervision. At least until they mature. 

Luckily my Kangals and Boz have not shown any of these behaviors as of yet (except playing with chickens). But I also understand that the future is also always uncertain. 








Male Boz at 15 months with an orphan goat.

GOOD LUCK!!!


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

I think one of the reasons the bond is so important is in situations where the lgd can leave the stock. If you are expecting the lgd to guard a few hundred sheep on many acres of land then you don't want him hanging out by the house because he has bonded more to people. If you have the lgd penned in just a few acres where he can't leave then it's not going to be quite as important as he will guard his territory.


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