# Hook these up for me.



## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

A Local guy bought 3 of these panels new http://www.civicsolar.com/product/canadian-solar-maxpower-cs6x-295p-295-watt-poly-solar-panel and found out that solar was not as cheap as he thought(wanted to run his 3600sqft all electric home with these 3). He never hooked them up. The date on them is March 2013. I made him a offer, which took him several days to accept. Now I want you guys to Hook these up for me. 

I want these as one array for a shed that has a 110/120 volt 1/2hp shallow well water pump---it runs fine on a 2000 watt inverter now and has been for 8 years----I will not add on to these panels. I would like to not spend any more than I needed but want them hooked up the best way for the money-----meaning I will start with Trojan T105's(already have some. I have about 10 decent size 12 volt inverters(2000's, 2500, 3000 etc) so I would like to use one of them if possible, but I will buy a higher DC Voltage inverter if it was best. 

What charge controller would be best for these 3 36 volt panels?

What the deal is------is I am going to be moving the big solar array to the cabin when its finished. This pump shed is about 150ft from the cabin and close 200ft from the panels. So I would like to just set these up beside the shed just for the pump. 

The pump will probably only run 15 minutes per day average. On second thought I will probably have a washing machine in that same building that I might wash a couple loads of clothes per week. Thanks


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

Not certain myself, but for panels putting out a maximum voltage of 36 volts, what you want is a 24 volt charge controller, not a 36volt.

The reason is that the panels will almost never put out that amount, because of things like intermittent shading, voltage drop from the panels to the batteries, and thermodynamic rules.

If you already have 6 volt T105s like I also do, you'd need to wire four of them in series to get 24 volts. Then you'll need a 24 volt inverter to go along with it.
http://www.amazon.com/HQRP-Battery-...568&sr=8-2&keywords=24+volt+charge+controller 

You can also get 24 volt inverters to go with it.

http://www.theinverterstore.com/1500-watt-pure-sine-wave-inverter-24-volt.html

I do not know if this is work, but does anyone know if you have four 6v batteries wired in series for charging, can you attach two 12 volt inverters side by side by attaching the +terminal of battery #1 and the -terminal of battery #2 to inverter #1 and the + terminal of battery #3 and the -terminal of battery #4 to inverter #2? Sounds bizzare and unbalanced power-wise, but would it allow the use of existing equipment?


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Fire-Man said:


> What charge controller would be best for these 3 36 volt panels?



The best one would be an MPPT controller that lets you take the input voltage and step it down to a wide range of output voltages. Since I'm using Outback equipment, I'll recommend (highly) them. Their may well be others, but I personally know the Outback FM60 will do exactly what you want.


The Outback Flexmax60 (60amps out) will take any voltage up to 150v ( less some de-rating, so say 130v max in....depends on how cold it gets where you are ), and you simply punch the right buttons to set the output to 12,24,36,48 or 60v to match your battery bank and inverter. You do the shopping, but I've seen them for the upper 400 buck range on the net.

That ain't cheap, but it IS cheaper than replacing your 12v (I assume) inverters *+ still having to buy* a decent charge controller to work with a 24v battery bank. 

It's an older version, (but still VERY good...I use two of them + an FM80) been mostly replace by the FM80 and Midnite's 250v units are giving it serious competition ( way above what you need unless you plan to expand ).

Panel wiring:

You can then wire your panels in parallel ( 3 sets into the controller at 36v each ) or you can wire them in series ( 3 panels 'daisy chained' to each other, one set of leads into the controller at 108v ). Both ways have pros/cons. In parallel, if you get some shading on one panel, it doesn't affect the others. In series, you'll have less voltage drop, so depending on the distance from your panels to the controller, that could be a factor.


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## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

The FM 60 or MX 60 could be a bit small for a 12 volt system. 60 [email protected] volts is 720 watts and the panels total 900. It would work and the controller wouldn't be harmed, but you would lose some of the panel's output.

You need to use a MPPT controller or you would throw away 66% of your power with a conventional PWM controller and a 12 volt system.

I would consider moving to a 48 volt system, with the three panels wired in series and a MPPT controller.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Midnight Solar . .Best way to go .........

48 volt system. . . . .very good idea

Micheal K . . .flat out NO to the series disaster......


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

idahodave said:


> The FM 60 or MX 60 could be a bit small for a 12 volt system. 60 [email protected] volts is 720 watts and the panels total 900. It would work and the controller wouldn't be harmed, but you would lose some of the panel's output.
> 
> You need to use a MPPT controller or you would throw away 66% of your power with a conventional PWM controller and a 12 volt system.



The rating for the Outback FM60 is 800 panel watts using 12v out. 

1600watts using 24v. (Both per Outback specs)


So, yeah, (3x295) is 85w over what they say.

But as anyone knows that has panels, the actual output is usually well below the STC rating. Only on real bright sunny, cold, snow covered ( get a lot of reflection ) day do I ever see mine go spike above 1600. I have 1750 STC panel rated arrays (10x175w) on each FM60, at 24v output ( 1600 is the limit ). Been that way for 5 years now, and I haven't fried one yet....which is NOT to say it couldn't happen tomorrow....but I've got faith that Outback has overdesigned their stuff by at least that much....and so far, my faith is justified. 

BUT it is above the manufacturers recommendations.

So you might want to step up to the FM80.




idahodave said:


> I would consider moving to a 48 volt system, with the three panels wired in series and a MPPT controller.


While I'd agree with you IF he was building an entire new system.....knowing what I know NOW, I would have gone 48v myself instead of 24v.....but I didn't know at the time......BUT he says this is the extent of his system, and he is trying to get by with the inverters he has.
It will cost him close to 2k to set up to a decent 48v inverter.


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

Thanks for the input, I did not state the open circuit voltage on these panels ---which is 44.5 volts. I would have not went with this voltage personally If I had of been ordering then new. The Guy that ordered them was close, they were New, I saved the shipping plus got them for less than their cost. My first thought was to set them up to charge my 36 volt golf carts. Then I decided to see the best way to hook them to my water pump shed so when I move the big array I do not have to move the water pump. I was going to move the pump because I feel a 200ft wire/run is longer than I want to run a wire for the pump. I could use some of the 12 volt panels I got in storage to make a set-up for the pump, but I feel using these 3 "36" volt panels would work better for the pump and I can then add these 12 volt panels in storage to my big 12 volt array.


Just thinking, trying to decide the best way to go.


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## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

TnAndy the FM 60 will not be damaged by higher panel wattage, it will limit the ouput current to 60 amps and the power delivered will be determined by the nominal battery voltage and it's state of charge. I have a MX 60 with 880 watts of panels and see 900 watts out under the right conditions, but my cabin is at 4000' elevation so the sun is stronger. 

The original post mentioned a possible washing machine and that's why I suggested a 48 volt system. He can use the MX 60 at 12 volts now and upgrade to 48 volts.


These panels don't have a high enough voltage to charge a 36 volt string using a PWM controller


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

One of the problems with using the MX60 is you will not be able to run all the panels in series. VOC is to high when you calculate in the derate that will be needed for cold temperatures. Running them parallel will not be high enough voltage for a 48V system. For 48V your only options would be to run only 2 panels or buy a 4th panel.

I'd look into setting a 24v system with them for the pump and I think you could build it big enough to handle an efficient washing machine.

44.5V * 3 * 125% = 166.87V

WWW


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## idahodave (Jan 20, 2005)

WWW you're right, I didn't think it got that cold in SC. If it stayed above freezing the MX60 would be right at the input voltage max. Time for a Midnite Solar Classic 150.
(FYI other readers...solar panel's output voltage increase as temperature decrease around .4%/degree C)

The three panels is series also requires a higher voltage rating on the breakers used for the panel disconnect, so may not be the best solution, I was trying to limit the wire size and breakers he needed to connect 3 panels in parallel.

Dave


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