# Boston Under Seige



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Two guys less than 21 years old turn Boston upside down.

Pitiful display. What would happen if a real force made some attack.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

was gunned down almost by accident...

They would have declared martial law if there had been four guys....


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_clnviry4SI[/ame]


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

Exactly how was this a pitiful display? They identified the suspects, engaged them and got one so far.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I'm amazed at how quickly they zeroed in and took one out. Things could have gone much much worse.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

TheMartianChick said:


> Exactly how was this a pitiful display? They identified the suspects, engaged them and got one so far.


On Law & Order they arrest them and convict them in under an hour....


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

*One Boston Marathon suspect killed; second suspect, his brother, on loose after firefight*



âI just want to speak to the community of Watertown. We need your help now. We are asking everyone to shelter into your place,â Watertown Police Chief Edward Deveau said. âThe Watertown community has always stood strong. We need them to do that today.â


Harvard University, Boston University, the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Boston public schools all closed. Emerson University closed and told students to stay where they were.


Andrew Kitzenberg, who lives in Watertown, said he saw the two men shooting at six police cars from 70 or 80 yards away. 



âThere was a long exchange of gunfire,â told NBC News in an interview. He said that he saw the suspects use what looked like a pressure-cooker bomb.
âI saw them light this bomb. They threw it towards the officers,â he said. âIt created a significant decoy, and there was smoke that covered our entire street.â


http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ect-his-brother-on-loose-after-firefight?lite


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Jack Bauer would have gotten them single handed.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Yea, hopefully they can take the other brother alive and find out the reasoning behind this and who is behind this. There is almost always someone pulling the strings behind the scenes. But even if we do catch him there is no guarantee we will get the required information.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

This isnt exactly your local stop and rob type criminal. They are terrorists from overseas who came here to kill and maim innocent civilians for the thrill of watching us suffer. They need to be stopped.... one down... one to go.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

TheMartianChick said:


> Exactly how was this a pitiful display? They identified the suspects, engaged them and got one so far.


By asking I know no answer to offer you would accept.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It does not really matter, who does what.

It is either not enough force, too much force or staged so the real truth does not come out. All this from armchair heroes who could of and would of always done a better job because they always know better as they sit at their computers.

Why not wait for the dust to settle before you start getting up on your soap boxes. people have died or have their worlds blown apart and you are acting like blow hard know it alls.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

he could be getting help from family or cells. i remember reading years ago there were cells already in place for when they wanted to start this stuff.although they would probably wash their hands of him now in order not to get caught themselves jmo ~Georgia


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

So what is the other option, put as little force out as possible. What if he harmed other folks, can you imagine the outrage about how little force and man power was used to capture/eliminate the guy?

I tell you, some people are never happy.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

blooba said:


> Yea, hopefully they can take the other brother alive and find out the reasoning behind this and who is behind this. There is almost always someone pulling the strings behind the scenes. But even if we do catch him there is no guarantee we will get the required information.


We'd get the info if we weren't such wimps when it comes to questioning terrorists anymore.

I say water board and other forms of torture to get info...


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

MSNBC and CNN must be terribly disappointed that once again, it wasn't the Tea Party
You'd think they's stop making that claim every time something happens.
I hope they catch this guy alive and do whatever it takes to get the truth


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

"Boston Under Siege"


My sentiments, exactly......

....and they ain't under siege by foreign terrorists, either.....and the tendency is coming soon to a city near you.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)




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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Cornhusker said:


> MSNBC and CNN must be terribly disappointed that once again, it wasn't the Tea Party
> You'd think they's stop making that claim every time something happens.
> I hope they catch this guy alive and do whatever it takes to get the truth


Ain't that the truth? They NEVER want to suggest a Muslim connection even though has far greater odds of being right.


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

The terrorists are getting exactly what they wanted. The governor has "ordered" everyone in the Boston area to remain in their homes. The transit system is shut down, there is a no-fly zone imposed over the area, schools are closed, etc.. There are probably 10 reporters and cameramen for every cop and soldier there, and there are hundreds of those.

Just who is terrorizing who?

All this over one 19 year-old who has been described as a "nice kid"?


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

HDRider said:


> Two guys less than 21 years old turn Boston upside down.
> 
> Pitiful display. What would happen if a real force made some attack.


I have a feeling they are scared of other bombs set before they caught up with the suspects. Would not be good for a bomb to go off on a bus full of people or something.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

We are losing on two fronts. One is obvious to some. The other maybe less so. 

The first loss is we are truly terrorized as shown in our outsized response. 

The second loss is the desensitization to a military response on our home soil.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Amen.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

SteveD(TX) said:


> All this over one 19 year-old who has been described as a "nice kid"?


Yep, and can you imagine the response from those 'arm chairing' this action as we currently know it if this man got away and blew up a VFW Post or Senior Home or something else????

And as for 'nice kid' sure, and I am positive there are folks who felt the same for McVeigh, or that guy at Ft Hood, etc......

I have no problem with the response of force in regards to this. Funny how some of the same people who spout off the mantra 'turn the Nation into a parking lot' in regards to other incidents are now questioning the overwhelming response force sent out.


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

When you consider that they were throwing bombs and grenades out the window of the vehicle (littering a 4 mile stretch) I think that they are afraid that the lone brother might still have some of that stuff left and could cause more chaos.


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

HDRider said:


> We are losing on two fronts. One is obvious to some. The other maybe less so.
> 
> The first loss is we are truly terrorized as shown in our outsized response.
> 
> The second loss is the desensitization to a military response on our home soil.


Yea, we shouldn't need military responses on American Soil, but this was an act of war. Apparently the mass military response is not enough if it is true the 2nd suspect got away.


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## tarbe (Apr 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> We are losing on two fronts. One is obvious to some. The other maybe less so.
> 
> The first loss is we are truly terrorized as shown in our outsized response.
> 
> The second loss is the desensitization to a military response on our home soil.


I agree HD. I am just not sure what the better answer is.


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## Ambereyes (Sep 6, 2004)

Just heard the MIT police officer was shot to many times to count and probably hit by shrapnel from explosive device. This according to the doctors.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

i must have heard it wrong. i thought that was the dead terrorist. ~Georgia.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I guess I missed the military response on the news. So far all I have heard about officially is the cops and FBI involvement. I does appear that the donut shops are empty in the area though... the cops are finally out doing what they are paid to do.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

tarbe said:


> I agree HD. I am just not sure what the better answer is.


Me either. It is just not my nature to accept things at face value. 

We are running full speed and I don't know where we are going. But,, I don't think I am going to like it when we get there.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I does appear that the donut shops are empty in the area though...



Great, just great, now we will have to have the Dunkin Bailout of 2013............. man, first we had to big to fail, now we have to round to dunk.........


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I guess I missed the military response on the news. So far all I have heard about officially is the cops and FBI involvement. I does appear that the donut shops are empty in the area though... the cops are finally out doing what they are paid to do.


The National Guard has been deployed in Mass. this entire time, its just the mass media doesn't want to make it look like a military zone.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I guess I missed the military response on the news. So far all I have heard about officially is the cops and FBI involvement. I does appear that the donut shops are empty in the area though... the cops are finally out doing what they are paid to do.


Maybe the response is not a military response in strict legal terms, but sure looks militaristic.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

So what if the Guard is there? Isn't this part of their duty or am I incorrect in that statement?

I didn't know it was supposed to be a secret that the guard is there.

Heck, they were even there in support of the Marathon.

http://www.dvidshub.net/news/105211...d-supports-117th-boston-marathon#.UXFbHtcRgUM

"More than 400 Massachusetts National Guardsmen helped local law enforcement to keep the route clear for runners as they beat feet to Boston during the Boston Marathon, April 15, 2013."


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

HDRider said:


> Maybe the response is not a military response in strict legal terms, but sure looks militaristic.



I think that some of that is due to the recent and seemingly endless procurement of small and large town police department s in regards to military 'appearing' weapons, battle gear, etc.

What may look like a squad on patrol in Afghanistan could just as easy be a squad of Drug or Gang officers in any down town urban city or rural area.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I hear last suspect is dead. ?


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

They have found a pipe bomb this morning in the Kenmore Square area (Charles Gate and Comm Ave, near MIT bridge). So there is good reason for the lockdown, they have no idea when this was placed


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

I have also heard that they think last suspect has bombs straped to him. Did you hear what the Father had to say-if the last son is killed-expect all heck to break out.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Last photo of the young boy that was murdered,and right there is suspect. Caution-contains graphic photos further down in pics.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-bomb-suspect-moments-planted-explosive.html


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

HDRider said:


> Maybe the response is not a military response in strict legal terms, but sure looks militaristic.


Are you sure?...lol


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> This isnt exactly your local stop and rob type criminal. They are terrorists from overseas who came here to kill and maim innocent civilians for the thrill of watching us suffer.


No they aren't. 
They've been here for at least 6 or 7 years, probably more.

My SIL lived next door to them for a couple of months before she and my brother moved to Ireland...
She said she's become that old lady on the news who says, "He was such a nice young man...until he killed those people." 
She said the elder brother always gave her the creeps, but she just chalked it up to sullen-teenager syndrome.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> They are terrorists from overseas who came here to kill and maim innocent civilians for the thrill of watching us suffer. They need to be stopped.... one down... one to go.


I kind of doubt that. I suspect there is a story to tell. I really hope they can capture this guy alive to find out why he did this.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Just found this on NPR:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20130419



> one brother arrived in the U.S. in 2002, and the second in 2004.


Re the younger brother:


> A longtime classmate in an interview with ABC News described him as "just a great kid. He was fun to be around. He always had a positive attitude." CNN interviewed a classmate who called him a good wrestler and "a normal kid. He parties, sometimes he smokes. He was raised here. He was just as American as I am."


This isn't a kid that would have fit a profile...


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

ErinP said:


> No they aren't.
> They've been here for at least 6 or 7 years, probably more.
> 
> My SIL lived next door to them for a couple of months before she and my brother moved to Ireland...
> ...



And this is why they are able to work so well. Terrorists hide very well in plain sight. They hide behind women/children/good deeds. Terrorists build schools, do all kinds of nice things, so folks are confused. Works, no?


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## Wanderer0101 (Jul 18, 2007)

Nevada said:


> I kind of doubt that. I suspect there is a story to tell. I really hope they can capture this guy alive to find out why he did this.


If you can't figure out why this guy did this you've reached a level of obtuseness that is right off the charts. What part of muslim terrorist don't you understand?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Wanderer0101 said:


> If you can't figure out why this guy did this you've reached a level of obtuseness that is right off the charts. What part of muslim terrorist don't you understand?


I just want to hear what he has to say.

People don't operate in groups without some kind of a logical train of thought. One person can do something simply because he's crazy, but people don't go crazy exactly in the same way in groups.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

tgmr05 said:


> And this is why they are able to work so well. Terrorists hide very well in plain sight. They hide behind women/children/good deeds. Terrorists build schools, do all kinds of nice things, so folks are confused. Works, no?


Absolutely.
And this is precisely why we *can't* really profile based on nationality, religion, etc.


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

ErinP said:


> Absolutely.
> And this is precisely why we *can't* really profile based on nationality, religion, etc.


Ask the Israelis if they believe that. They have learned to live and adapt with attacks like this all the time. They profile, big time. They do not hassle random 3 year olds, or 97 year old grannies for no reason. They do it when they have reason to do so. Suspicions/reasons to do so are not based on one or two things, but a lot together. Eliminating some of the reasons, only cripples the method. THAT is the problem with the NO PROFILING attitude today. Oh, we cannot profile middle eastern men or women, that woud be bad.... So, we set ourselves for failure from the start....


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

How quickly most of us throw Benjamin Franklin out with the bath water.

"Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither."

Wanna use the US military to track down terrorists on US soil ? 

Fine.

But don' expect to get away with trampling the right of even one man, let alone disregarding the liberties of all.

Once we give up liberty for the sake of some emotional satisfaction, it's over.

Looks to me like, for most....... it's over.

Right now, the charade is making it out that they are protecting "you" from "the bad guys".

The feeling is entirely different when they turn their sights on protecting you from yourself.

"'For your own good' is a persuasive argument that will eventually make a man agree to his own destruction" I forget the source.....


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

tgmr05 said:


> Ask the Israelis if they believe that. They have learned to live and adapt with attacks like this all the time. They profile, big time.


It doesn't seem to work very well. I don't believe there is any place on earth where more buses & pizza parlors get blown up than Israel.


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## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

Forerunner said:


> How quickly most of us throw Benjamin Franklin out with the bath water.
> 
> "Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither."
> 
> ...


I see the difference here in that this is a response to an immediate threat. If anyone in the area objects to having their home searched for this suspect I would be first in line to defend them. I would also defend any judge who would issue a very narrow search warrant and would expect any other questionable activities uncovered to be off limits for prosecution. I would object strenuously if activities such as this were undertaken without imminent threat.


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

Nevada said:


> It doesn't seem to work very well. I don't believe there is any place on earth where more buses & pizza parlors get blown up than Israel.


Hence the reason they profile. They are the most attacked nation on the planet, yet they survive. You do realize they stop more attacks than most nations get, combined, right?? Your comment is not exactly well thought out.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

tgmr05 said:


> Hence the reason they profile. They are the most attacked nation on the planet, yet they survive. *You do realize they stop more attacks than most nations get, combined, right??* Your comment is not exactly well thought out.


I don't know that for a fact. They might make that claim, but I have no way of knowing if it's true.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> I don't know that for a fact. They might make that claim, but I have no way of knowing if it's true.


What makes you believe it's not true?


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## tgmr05 (Aug 27, 2007)

Nevada said:


> I don't know that for a fact. They might make that claim, but I have no way of knowing if it's true.


True, for folks who care not to look, but they do stop a lot of attacks. Or do you think they simply are too stupid, and are actually getting themselves blown up at pizza parlors and bus stations because they are so inept at security, versus we stop so many attacks at our bus stations and pizza parlors with our super secret, invisible to most, awesome security in place?


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> Ask the Israelis if they believe that. They have learned to live and adapt with attacks like this all the time. They profile, big time.


Personally, I would never live in a country with so few personal liberties as in Israel... :shrug:
Fortunately, I don't.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

To acts of terrorism themselves, thinking back over the last 30 years in the US, they've been perpetuated by educated and non-educated, Christians, Muslims, non-religious...born-and-bred American citizens and non-citizens with foreign ties... From what I can tell, about the only thing they all have in common is they're male. 

So obviously, that's the profile of terrorists; they're usually men. 
Except when they're women, that is.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

ErinP said:


> Personally, I would never live in a country with so few personal liberties as in Israel... :shrug:
> Fortunately, I don't.


Just wait a few years or maybe sooner.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Possum Belly said:


> Just wait a few years or maybe sooner.


Maybe so, but it's nothing to look forward to. America just wouldn't be America under permanent lock-down.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Nevada said:


> Maybe so, but it's nothing to look forward to. America just wouldn't be America under permanent lock-down.


Trust me I agree with you on this one. Nothing to look forward to. Hope I did not convey that in my post. I do believe it is coming.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

HDRider said:


> Two guys less than 21 years old turn Boston upside down.
> 
> Pitiful display. What would happen if a real force made some attack.


Would you still take the side, of the terrorists, if it was your family and friends, that got blown up, or shot?

Just curious.

BTW, these guys were not wanted, for jaywalking.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

When dealing with terrorists (who knows how many) , not afraid to kill and not afraid to die, who are both armed and proficient,in making and using explosives, using well armed (and protected) SWAT teams, to capture them (without getting killed themselves) is way _over-kil_l.

This is the only weapon we really need to bring them to justice.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I guess *I missed the military response* on the news.


It's pretty hard to miss:


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

plowjockey said:


> When dealing with terrorists (who knows how many) , not afraid to kill and not afraid to die, who are both armed and proficient,in making and using explosives, using well armed (and protected) SWAT teams, to capture them (without getting killed themselves) is way _over-kil_l.
> 
> This is the only weapon we really need to bring them to justice.


I wish the above were true.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> using well armed (and protected) SWAT teams, to capture them (without getting killed themselves) is way over-kill


Yeah...no doubt that's what Sean Collier, the MIT cop that was killed, thought too.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

plowjockey said:


> When dealing with terrorists (who knows how many) , not afraid to kill and not afraid to die, who are both armed and proficient,in making and using explosives, using well armed (and protected) SWAT teams, to capture them (without getting killed themselves) is way _over-kil_l.
> 
> This is the only weapon we really need to bring them to justice.


While a shotgun takes care of that individual terrorist, it does nothing to address the problem. For every terrorist you see, there are 100 more that you can't see.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

> Yeah...no doubt that's what Sean Collier, the MIT cop that was killed, thought too.





> While a shotgun takes care of that individual terrorist, it does nothing to address the problem. For every terrorist you see, there are 100 more that you can't see.


I was using what I thought, was obvious *SARCASM*.

Sorry for the confusion.

It should also be obvious, that all of the cameras and security, that we constantly complain abou, helped track down these killers, in pretty short order.

Otherwise, they have been long gone - for good - or until they decided to strike again.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Sorry. Reading some of the hair brained stuff (that was _serious_) that has been floated through some of these threads, I completely missed the sarcasm.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

Would it be better to send 1st graders or girl scouts to get these guys.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

ErinP said:


> To acts of terrorism themselves, thinking back over the last 30 years in the US, they've been perpetuated by educated and non-educated, Christians, Muslims, non-religious...born-and-bred American citizens and non-citizens with foreign ties... From what I can tell, about the only thing they all have in common is they're male.
> 
> So obviously, that's the profile of terrorists; they're usually men.
> Except when they're women, that is.


Earth First has mostly women, there terrorists.
The SLA.(Patty Hearst)
The Weather Underground(their friends of the Obamas)
Manson Family.

There are more, just can't think of them off the top of my head!


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

*Except when they're women, that is.*


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Possum Belly said:


> I wish the above were true.


We are a million miles from Mayberry.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

plowjockey said:


> It should also be obvious, that all of the cameras and security, that we constantly complain abou, helped track down these killers, in pretty short order.
> 
> Otherwise, they have been long gone - for good - or until they decided to strike again.


Killing or capturing the terrorists you see still isn't going to fix the problem. That's as futile as trying to stop the fly problem by swatting flies.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

HDRider said:


> Two guys less than 21 years old turn Boston upside down.
> 
> Pitiful display. What would happen if a real force made some attack.


What? You think this is a game? This was a real force being met with force.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

It's more than a game.

It's the most massive and concerted effort to prepare the American populace for martial law that the country has seen since they rounded up US citizens of Japanese descent during WWII.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Oh please. It is a man hunt for the killer of 4 people and no law agency wants to be the one that lost him because the net was not tight enough.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

It's also a show of force for future bombers, they really have to catch this guy, alive preferably. I suspect the older brother sacrificed himself to allow the younger brother to flee, or he never would have made it out from the exchange of gunfire with police. This is no forgiveable mistake of youth, I would just prefer to see the justice system prevail rather than a hail of bullets closing this sad saga. The victims need justice.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Killing or capturing the terrorists you see still isn't going to fix the problem. That's as futile as trying to stop the fly problem by swatting flies.



The thing is, we've invaded so many countries and killed so many hundreds of thousands of civilians, the terrorists could be from almost anywhere. It'll never be quelled, we've drawn too much blood, caused too much suffering. The only answer will be more government surveillance, your phone calls, your posts, your emails, your private conversations, your purchases will now have to be scrutinized. Martial law will be in effect whether they call it that or not. And once these things are put into place, they will never be removed, even if every terrorist dropped dead at once.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Sounds like something is going on in Watertown now, new gunshots?


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

yes, just heard that on CNN. dont know if it's going to come to anything or not. ~Georgia


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## Bandit (Oct 5, 2008)

7:00 News reports on WCVB Boston of GunShots and Blood around a Boat in a backyard , and a Live Body in it , with police running towards it .

Reporters being moved back and gas being deployed ?


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## HuskyBoris (Feb 14, 2013)

wannabechef said:


> We'd get the info if we weren't such wimps when it comes to questioning terrorists anymore.
> 
> I say water board and other forms of torture to get info...


I say a battery,, some jumper cables attached to their man parts and some water to get info,I am not sympathetic to terrorist one bit,I'd like to know who backed them,who trained them and who inspired them to do this,there is much more to these clowns than loose cannons with a grudge,there are more and we need to find them. ig:


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## Bandit (Oct 5, 2008)

7:45 pm. 
They have found the suspect , alive and hiding in a boat with Thermal Imaging from a Helicopter .
They have Him cornered and The Swat teams are moving in with 50. cal. sniper rifles .


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HuskyBoris said:


> I say a battery,, some jumper cables attached to their man parts and some water to get info,I am not sympathetic to terrorist one bit,I'd like to know who backed them,who trained them and who inspired them to do this,there is much more to these clowns than loose cannons with a grudge,there are more and we need to find them. ig:


I'd also like to know the same about 9/11.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

He's in custody and he's alive.


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## Bandit (Oct 5, 2008)

and heading for the hospital for early injuries 
I hope it's time for the EMT's 8:45 Coffee Break


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Bandit said:


> and heading for the hospital for early injuries
> I hope it's time for the EMT's 8:45 Coffee Break


I believe his survival is very important. We need to know a lot more about this that only he knows; such as his motivations, organizations involved, foreign & domestic contacts, other plots he might have heard about, and so on.


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## Bandit (Oct 5, 2008)

The people are standing on the side of the roads cheering the police as they leave


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Nevada said:


> I'd also like to know the same about 9/11.


As soon as you find one of the hijackers alive, you have my permission to begin the application of the cables.

Oh, wait. You just had a thread about waterboarding and criminal charges against Bush. Now you want to use batteries and water on hijackers? You seem to have trouble focusing sometimes.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> We need to know a lot more about this that *only he knows*; such as his motivations, organizations involved, foreign & domestic contacts, other plots he might have heard about, and so on.


You mean you don't already know *it's all about ISLAM*?
Where have you been living?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Nevada said:
> 
> 
> > I'd also like to know the same about 9/11.
> ...


We've been told that there are a number of people in custody who helped plan 9/11. I would like to know what they have to say. You can bet that the government already knows.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

Nevada said:


> I believe his survival is very important. We need to know a lot more about this that only he knows; such as his motivations, organizations involved, foreign & domestic contacts, other plots he might have heard about, and so on.


He's practicing the religion of peace...not sure what went wrong?

We need to stop letting these freaks in the country, stop building/permitting mosques...I am no longer tolerant of Islam.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wannabechef said:


> He's practicing the religion of peace...not sure what went wrong?
> 
> We need to stop letting these freaks in the country, stop building/permitting mosques...I am no longer tolerant of Islam.


Let me guess; you don't know a lot about Chechnya or its political problems, do you?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You mean you don't already know *it's all about ISLAM*?
> Where have you been living?


Where do you learn this stuff?


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Let me guess; you don't know a lot about Chechnya or its political problems, do you?


Neither did the bomber!!! He is 19. He has been in the US for 11 years. I doubt he learned bomb making there at age 7 or 8.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/1...pect-sought-help-rediscovering-chechen-roots/


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

wannabechef said:


> He's practicing the religion of peace...not sure what went wrong?
> 
> We need to stop letting these freaks in the country, stop building/permitting mosques...I am no longer tolerant of Islam.





Nevada said:


> Let me guess; you don't know a lot about Chechnya or its political problems, do you?


I don't know a whole lot about Chechnya or it's political problems either, just what I have seen on the not so news the past 15 or so years. But in any event, no matter what happened there, he did not have the right to murder innocent children in the name of islam.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Possum Belly said:


> But in any event, no matter what happened there, he did not have the right to murder innocent children in the name of islam.


Did he do it in the name of Islam?


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

I am not much of a betting man but if I were, I would bet yes. I would also bet you were hoping that it would turn out to be a Bush supporter that was suspected in the bombing. (Secretly of course) 

By the way, I am not a Bush supporter either.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Possum Belly said:


> I am not much of a betting man but if I were, I would bet yes. I would also bet you were hoping that it would turn out to be a Bush supporter that was suspected in the bombing. (Secretly of course)
> 
> By the way, I am not a Bush supporter either.


I don't want to speculate. I want to know. The first step in dealing with any problem is understanding the problem, not guessing what the problem might be.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

I don't need to guess. I don't keep my head in the sand or anywhere else, except where it should be.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Possum Belly said:


> I don't need to guess. I don't keep my head in the sand or anywhere else, except where it should be.


That's the same approach we took to 9/11.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Yep, it was. I reckon you would also consider Mjr Hassan a disgruntled employee.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Possum Belly said:


> Yep, it was. I reckon you would also consider Mjr Hassan a disgruntled employee.


I'm not going to accept that the 9/11 conspirators were simply homicidal maniacs who hated freedom, since 19 people don't go insane in the same way at the same time.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Nevada said:


> I'm not going to accept that the 9/11 conspirators were simply homicidal maniacs who hated freedom, since 19 people don't go insane in the same way at the same time.


That is up to you. We are entitled to be wrong every now and then. Sleep well.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> How quickly most of us throw Benjamin Franklin out with the bath water.
> 
> "Those who would give up liberty for security deserve neither."
> 
> ...


While you were researching "quotes", the people of Watertown, the Police and yes even the Military, were doing what they had to do, to at least try to stop this terrorist madness, which, if left unchecked, will only perpetuate.

Their perseverance payed off, at least this time.

Skipping the armchair quarterbacks, I'll bet if we asked the people of Watertown and those who had their loved one maimed and killed by terrorist bombers, they might say they gained more liberty than lost, this week 

What would Ben Franklin's plan be, to fight 2013 terrorism, which is a tad bit different than that of the American frontier? Keep liberty and hope the terrorism simply goes away?

Just curious.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Where do you learn this stuff?


I pay attention, and don't waste time with the PC BS
You too could do it if you just TRY



> The first step in dealing with any problem is understanding the problem, not *guessing* what the problem might be.


We aren't guessing.
They did it for Islam
It's pretty obvious


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Nevada said:


> I'm not going to accept that the 9/11 conspirators were simply homicidal maniacs who hated freedom, since 19 people don't go insane in the same way at the same time.


Got Islam?

Strap on a bomb, blow others up along with yourself. hijack a plane, blow it up along with yourself.. Blow up a bus load of people - along with your self..

Score a bunch of virgins, in the afterlife. They are completely "sane".

Not breaking new ground here.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> While you were researching "quotes", the people of Watertown, the Police and yes even the Military, were doing what they had to do, to at least try to stop this terrorist madness, which, if left unchecked, will only perpetuate.
> 
> Their perseverance payed off, at least this time.


Actually, the suspect got OUT of their perimeter, and if not for some guy calling them to report what HE saw, they'd STILL be searching the *wrong* area.

The military had *no business* being involved at all


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Ben Franklin would have encouraged that every man be armed and vigilant, and not to place extreme power and trust in the hands of a few.

Did that sink in to the sand surrounding the heads ?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Ben Franklin would have encouraged that every man be armed and vigilant, and not to place extreme power and trust in the hands of a few.
> 
> Did that sink in to the sand surrounding the heads ?


I think it would be interesting to track gun sales in Mass for the next few weeks.
I'm betting there will be an increase


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The tremendous show of force in Boston, but yet a homeowner discovered Tsarnaev when he saw blood on the outside of his boat and then lifted the tarp to find a person, covered in blood, inside.

Will they arrest the homeowner for coming out of his house?


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## blooba (Feb 9, 2010)

HDRider said:


> The tremendous show of force in Boston, but yet a homeowner discovered Tsarnaev when he saw blood on the outside of his boat and then lifted the tarp to find a person, covered in blood, inside.
> 
> Will they arrest the homeowner for coming out of his house?


No because this area was in lockdown and they already searched it and left. They lifted the lock down and gave the all clear. He saw the boat and called 911, they sent one of the blackhawks over and confirmed a heat signature in the boat then moved in and got into a gunfight immediately (not sure how 50+ rounds miss a guy hiding inside a boat) I think the police need to go back to target practice and learn to look inside winterized boats/sheds...lol


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Actually, the suspect got OUT of their perimeter, and if not for some guy calling them to report what HE saw, they'd STILL be searching the *wrong* area.
> 
> The military had *no business* being involved at all


The entire city was in lock down, so for the most part, the terrorist - and the aurhorities looking for him., were the only ones on the street. They guy that called him in otherwise, might have been at work, so the puke may have gotten away.

If the city was not in lock down, he would have certainly gotten away with relative ease, amongst a city of millions of people.



> The military had *no business* being involved at all


Did the Military have some other more important mission, that they could not help catch a terrorist killing, Americans on American soil?


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## vicki in NW OH (May 10, 2002)

Forerunner said:


> Ben Franklin would have encouraged that every man be armed and vigilant, and not to place extreme power and trust in the hands of a few.
> 
> Did that sink in to the sand surrounding the heads ?


Imagine being confined to your house in that neighborhood yesterday, not knowing if the terror suspect may break into your house, and not having a gun. Citizens are supposed to cower under beds?


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Forerunner said:


> Ben Franklin would have encouraged that every man be armed and vigilant, and not to place extreme power and trust in the hands of a few.
> 
> Did that sink in to the sand surrounding the heads ?


Ok, so everyone is armed, which in itself, in 2013, just seems silly.

That said, which one had the bombs?


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

HDRider said:


> The tremendous show of force in Boston, but yet a homeowner discovered Tsarnaev when he saw blood on the outside of his boat and then lifted the tarp to find a person, covered in blood, inside.
> 
> Will they arrest the homeowner for coming out of his house?


Why would they?

People were ordered to stay at home, for their own safety, or did we forget there was an armed killer loose, who may likely have bombs, also?

The people were not under arrest.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

It may be true that enough Americans have guns or are thought to have guns that the suspect chose to hide in a boat rather than invade a home. I don't suppose anyone's gonna ask him that.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

plowjockey said:


> Why would they?
> 
> People were ordered to stay at home, for their own safety, or did we forget there was an armed killer loose, who may likely have bombs, also?
> 
> The people were not under arrest.




We put innumerable officers on the ground with a treasure of the latest armament technology searching a city of citizens told to stay in their homes.

Then the power of *one citizen* found what the above could not. I AM NOT disrespecting the officers as individuals. I AM TRYING to point out that our government has forgotten the power of its people.

Our government wants us to be slaves to their overwhelming forces as it was displayed in Boston.

My faith in government is linearly less by the increasing size of the government.

*I have unlimited faith in our people, Americans, as individuals. *


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

plowjockey said:


> Ok, so everyone is armed, which in itself, in 2013, just seems silly.
> 
> That said, which one had the bombs?


HUH? Where have you been living? Most Americans ARE armed in 2013. Nothing silly about it, its called the second amendment.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

HDRider said:


> We put innumerable officers on the ground with a treasure of the latest armament technology searching a city of citizens told to stay in their homes.
> 
> Then the power of *one citizen* found what the above could not. I AM NOT disrespecting the officers as individuals. I AM TRYING to point out that our government has forgotten the power of its people.
> 
> ...


Understood, but I see it, as citizens _and_ Government officials, _working together_, against terrorists, who are a newer and more difficult "enemy" to deal with. It was certainly a sacrifice for those involved, but by keeping people off the street, made apprehension more focused. He would have gotten away otherwsie, IMO

Personally, since I cannot - by law, take guns to work, I would have rather been "locked down" at home, with my family (and guns), if there was a terrorist bomber, running about.

Big Government always runs the risk of getting too big, but in the case of fighting terrorsim, seems to at least contain it, for the most part.



> Our government wants us to be slaves to their overwhelming forces as it was displayed in Boston.


From what I am seeing, all of the extra "forces", are packing up and going back to wherever they came from, while the City works, to return to normal..


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

Darntootin said:


> HUH? Where have you been living? Most Americans ARE armed in 2013. Nothing silly about it, its called the second amendment.


Darntootin, this article cites an NRA estimate of 60 million gun owners in the US. That's not most Americans. But this is just one source, and an old one (from 2003) - do you have another that supports your view?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/942388/posts


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Scott SW Ohio said:


> Darntootin, this article cites an NRA estimate of 60 million gun owners in the US. That's not most Americans. But this is just one source, and an old one (from 2003) - do you have another that supports your view?
> 
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/942388/posts


Gun ownership in America is at around 30%, down from the 50% range of the 1970s. Most Americans don't own a gun.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Gun ownership in America is at around 30%, down from the 50% range of the 1970s. Most Americans don't own a gun.


 Percentage Number
Households With a Gun - 40-45% - 47-53 million
Adults Owning a Gun - 30-34% - 70-80 million
Adults Owning a Handgun - 17-19% - 40-45 million

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

From 2009


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Gun ownership in America is at around 30%, down from the 50% range of the 1970s. *Most Americans don't own a gun.*


Or maybe they just stopped *TELLING* everyone who asked

Gun sales have risen nearly every month since BO was elected, resulting in around 65 MILLION new guns being sold in just that time period


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Forerunner said:


> It's more than a game.
> 
> It's the most massive and concerted effort to prepare the American populace for martial law that the country has seen since they rounded up US citizens of Japanese descent during WWII.


 Wow whats stopping you from leaving then?? Last I checked you can still buy a plane ticket to just about anywhere. Failing that, your own 2 feet still work right?


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

emdeengee said:


> Oh please. It is a man hunt for the killer of 4 people and no law agency wants to be the one that lost him because the net was not tight enough.


 Exactly.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Or maybe they just stopped *TELLING* everyone who asked
> 
> Gun sales have risen nearly every month since BO was elected, resulting in around 65 MILLION new guns being sold in just that time period


 Obama and his team of 'jack-booted gun grabbers' aren't doing a very good job then.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Obama and his team of 'jack-booted gun grabbers' aren't doing a very good job then.


They are trying hard, but so far we are holding them back.
SOME claimed he'd never even *try*


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They are trying hard, but so far we are holding them back.
> SOME claimed he'd never even *try*


 They can try all they want, without the votes, their efforts will be for nothing.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> They can try all they want, without *the vo*tes, their efforts will be for nothing.


We won the last Supreme Court vote by *ONE.*
BO may get to appoint the next Justice.
Which way do you think that one will vote?


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

greg273 said:


> Wow whats stopping you from leaving then?? Last I checked you can still buy a plane ticket to just about anywhere. Failing that, your own 2 feet still work right?


Cut and run may be your modus operandi, but it ain't mine. :yawn:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> The entire city was in lock down, so for the most part, the terrorist - and the aurhorities looking for him., were the only ones on the street. They guy that called him in otherwise,* might have* been at work, so the puke* may have* gotten away.


The *fact* remains, they set up a ONE square mile *perimeter,* and he was found OUTSIDE that area

Your "might have" and "may have" are just speculation


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The *fact* remains, they set up a ONE square mile *perimeter,* and he was found OUTSIDE that area
> 
> Your "might have" and "may have" are just speculation


He wasn't going to get away. You need friends willing to help to get away. Interest in capturing the suspects was virtually universal, so any friends he had wouldn't have helped him.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The *fact* remains, they set up a ONE square mile *perimeter,* and he was found OUTSIDE that area
> 
> Your "might have" and "may have" are just speculation


You certainly love to dwell on the inane . 

You don't think, that if you _instantly_ became_ public enemy number one_ and seriously needed to *high-tail it*, out of a major metropolitan area, it would be a heck of a lot easier, with millions of people, going about their business, verses empty streets, blocked roads and LE everywhere?

We know the answer. 

They needed to get this guy.

Whether the lockdown was overkill, or not - well, they got him..


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

If they had waited another hour or so to lift the shelter in place "order" they probably still wouldnt have the suspect. If they hadnt made the order in the first place they might have gotten him 12 or so hours earlier and not had to keep everyone in lockdown all day.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Nevada said:


> He wasn't going to get away. You need friends willing to help to get away. Interest in capturing the suspects was virtually universal, so any friends he had wouldn't have helped him.


Virtually universal is not the same as universal. It only would have taken one sympathetic friend to help him get away. And even without help he potentially could have eluded the police for a few more days.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

jtbrandt said:


> Virtually universal is not the same as universal. It only would have taken one sympathetic friend to help him get away. And even without help he potentially could have eluded the police for a few more days.


I really doubt it. People were paying attention to the FBI photos. He was recognizable.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> He wasn't going to get away. You need friends willing to help to get away. Interest in capturing the suspects was virtually universal, so any friends he had wouldn't have helped him


That has nothing to do with the fact that he DID get out of the perimeter


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> You certainly love to* dwell on the inane* .


If by that you mean "stick to JUST THE FACTS", then you're correct


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I really doubt it. People were paying attention to the FBI photos. He was recognizable.


Some of his close friends saw the pictures and said it looked like him but decided it wasnt. Now imagine a stranger seeing him in the dark probably not up close. Think they're going to know it's him? Had he made it until dark he probably would have walked out of that neighborhood (assuming he could walk) and maybe found a way out of Boston or even out of the U.S.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

greg273 said:


> They can try all they want, without the votes, their efforts will be for nothing.


Really? Rumor has it he'll use executive privilege...like he has on other stuff he wants but we the people don't.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

greg273 said:


> They can try all they want, without the votes, their efforts will be for nothing.


Obama, Bloomberg and their kind will never stop trying to take guns from citizens. 

They will relentlessly and tirelessly take incremental steps toward severely limiting civilian possession of defensive guns. 

Just this morning Joe Scarborough, a self ptoclaimed conservative and gun owner advocate, former Republican Florida Congressman and current host of MSNBC'S Morning Joe, mocked over and over and over, along with his regular panel of leftist,, the threat of a national gun registry. 

Mocking, belittling and calling gun rights stupid is stock and trade to try to embarrass anyone stupid enough to think citizen have the right to self defense. 

The play book is written. The gun grabbers have it memorized. 

That's a fact Jack. Take it to the bank.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

And one other gun tidbit. 

The grabbers are now making this a rural versus urban issue. They now want to pit urban congressmen against those representing rural states because gun rights appear more strongly rooted in more rural states. 

Jack,, and Jill.


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## Hollowdweller (Jul 13, 2011)

HDRider said:


> We are losing on two fronts. One is obvious to some. The other maybe less so.
> 
> The first loss is we are truly terrorized as shown in our outsized response.
> 
> The second loss is the desensitization to a military response on our home soil.


 
I disagree with the first statement because I think they got him and there was no collateral damage of people getting killed in the crossfire.

I agree with the second on how troubling it is that our police are now like military. I think maybe call in the national guard but dont' make our police like a military.

Of course the argument would be if our criminals are allowed to buy bulletproof vests and assault weapons then it's only fair our police can go toe to toe with them.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

In a post on the website of libertarian activist Lew Rockwell, Mr. Paul said Monday that the governmental reaction to the tragic explosions was worse than the attack itself. The forced lockdown of much of the Boston area, police riding armored vehicles through the streets, and door-to-door searches without warrants were all reminiscent of a military coup or martial law, Paul added.

âThe Boston bombing provided the opportunity for the government to turn what should have been a police investigation into a military-style occupation of an American city,â according to Paul.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Dec...e-gone-too-far?nav=87-frontpage-entryNineItem


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

??
They weren't *forced* to stay in. They were asked to shelter in place, and because they wanted the bombers caught, most Bostonians were happy to do so.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I think they got him and there was no collateral damage of people getting killed in *the crossfire*.


The suspect was *unarmed.*
There shouldn't have been ANY gunfire at all.
They *panicked
*


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I guess RP gave me a little more confidence in my reaction of Boston and its occupation. Sad to me that so few others saw it that way. Sad.

Sadder still so many saw it as a good and proper response. Real sad. 

I don't know what America is any more. I don't know what she wants to be now.

Maybe I am too old now to believe in the ideal of America like I used to, like I was taught to. Like I wanted to.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Hang in the HD.

We just don't get the press coverage..........yet.

There are Americans far and wide, just not many of them left in the big cities where the police state is being ushered in with enthusiasm.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *Most Americans* don't own a gun.


Your figures are misleading, since they are based on the TOTAL population, when in reality, over 27% are TOO YOUNG to legally own a handgun.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Nevada said:


> He wasn't going to get away. You need friends willing to help to get away. Interest in capturing the suspects was virtually universal, so any friends he had wouldn't have helped him.


Do you still feel this way? Seems the younger (alive) bro had friends...they're now in jail. They face yrs in prison for aiding & abetting.
And the mother who fled to Russia, do you suppose its her DNA on the bonbs? The female DNA they've cited?

I suppose there's still the supporters of this terrorist woman, saying they're sad for her, as much as the mom of the 8 yr old boy who was blown to bits by these terrorists demons.


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## unregistered353870 (Jan 16, 2013)

Good question. It seems interest in capturing the suspect wasnt as nearly universal as Nevada thought.


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