# very round ewe lamb



## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I have one little ewe lamb that is very round through her tummy. She looks bloated, but she's been this way for couple of days. It seems to be getting worse rather than better. I gave her a soapy water enema last night....nothing. And an oily water enema this morning. Nothing. I tried baking soda (going in different ends, of course) in case it was bloat. She isn't lethargic, but not energetic either. She's never run round with the other lambs but sticks close to her mom. Her mom is rather barrell-shaped and always seemed more round, but this little ewe lamb is beyond reasonable. She sticks out further on her left than her right - or rather, her side protrudes mroe sharply on the left side. Her tummy is also hanging down further than the other lambs'.

Her stomach isn't tight, but seems more squishy. She doesn't seem in pain when I push on her sides. She is between 2 and 3 weeks old. Could it be worms? They have been out on pasture during the day. 

I'm going to try to get her into the vet today, but he can't always work us in.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

If she's not showing signs of *distress*, it's not really "bloat"

Some are just big bellied.
I'd just watch her and STOP treating her until you're *sure* there's really a problem

Baking soda won't really help bloat.
Give her some plain *vegetable oil* if you're still concerned that's what it is


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Also if it's soft belly, it could be soft bloat. In older sheep I just took them off hay and grain for a while and stalled them. But it's a lamb, so it could be getting more then it's fair share of the teet ...LOL


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

The vet said it's intestinal bloat...a healthy case of it. That she was probably getting too much grass and not enough milk. Her rumen isn't ready for anything but milk. Or perhaps, her twin is getting more than his fair share leaving her to look elsewhere for her food. Her mom didn't have enough milk at first and I bottled the babies a couple times a day until the mom had enough for them. Or I assumed mom had enough. She might not. This little ewe never liked the bottle and it was a struggle to feed her every time.

Anyway, the ewe lamb isn't distressed but I am to feed her yogurt and probiotics and take her brother away for an hour or so day and make sure she's nursing. He said to give it two days and see how she's doing then. We weighed her so he can see if she's gaining weight. alas....$45 please.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Good deal thats the cheapest vet answer I've ever heard of!!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> She is between 2 and 3 weeks old
> 
> Her rumen isn't ready for anything but milk


I can't imagine a lamb that young even attempting to eat enough grass to get bloated, but the Vet had to tell you *something* to justify his money

They can't digest it at that age, as he said, and if she was eating it due to not enough milk, it seems to me she'd be underweight


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

She is underweight. I watched her for 2 hrs last night and she isn't nursing - which is why she's lost weight. What I don't know is if mom doesn't have enough milk or if she's stopped nursing due to the bloat. She's a $400 ewe and sold so I do think it's okay to worry about her and try some things before running her to the vet. She is literally as big round as she is long. 

I think the vet is right. It's best to try to let her work this out herself. He is ready to do whatever needed if we see that it's needed. I am bottling her now and may end up taking her from her mom so I can measure the amount of milk she is getting. I'd rather he had done something, of course, but sticking needle in a lamb to release air has it's risks. He wants me to try what we are doing for a bit and see if she gets better. it's okay for him to charge me - I'm the one that brought the ewe to him. He's a good vet and is always on the side of caution and take it slow.

All my lambs this age will eat pasture and hay. They only nibble, but they do like it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Have you tried milking the ewe to see how her milk is flowing?
Does the lamb have any sharp teeth that might make the ewe reject her?


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## Farmer2B (Oct 20, 2011)

Worst thing you can do is doubt your vet.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I did look at her teeth to see if they were too sharp - and her brothers. Nope. I haven't checked the ewe's milk. I will do that tonight.

Here are a couple of pictures - one is blury and one is dark, but I think you can get the idea of how big she is.


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Wow. Have you tried a bloat treatment? If it is bloat then at this stage she would generally not be eating, is she kicking at her belly, signs of pain? I'd certainly try a little oil for the bloat. Is she pooping? Passing urine? It sure doesn't look good, but better to treat for bloat than have to use a trochar on the poor thing.

Carol K


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

None of the farm stores have it in stock. She is not showing any signs of distress, just getting more thin.


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

Check with your vet, but you can use mineral oil or vegetable oil, I used mineral oil on a calf that was bloating, but that was bloat for sure, just her left side ballooning out, pain etc etc, it was a close call with her. The odd thing about your lamb is that it has gone on a while I am presuming, not just hours, that doesn't sound like regular bloat. Could she have eaten something and got a blockage?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vegetable oil supposedly works better tham mineral oil


> Could she have eaten something and got a blockage?


I thought that too, but it seems like that would cause a lot of pain.



> None of the farm stores have it in stock


You can use any "gas treatment" for humans too.

Anything with *Simethicone *would help, and you can get it at most drug stores and even grocery stores

The most common one is "Gas-X"

Simethicone - PubMed Health


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## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

Sounds very much like the lamb I lost.  I tried all the normal things. Pepto, baking soda, yogurt, Gas X, mineral oil (3x), enema, trying tubing her to let the air out, walking. None of it worked. She still seemed in fairly good spirits minus grinding her teeth slightly.

Took her to the vet and he said the only chance she had was if he opened her up. Needless to say they didn't find anything and I lost her due to shock from the surgery.

I hope and pray that your little one recovers. I hope you'll also keep us posted on her progress. ((hugs)) It feels horrible to feel helpless and not be able to "fix" them.


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## Goatsandsheep (Jun 7, 2006)

I had a bottle lamb last year that kept bloating my vet recommend Mylanta and it work great. About 5cc should work. Shelly


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Carol K said:


> Check with your vet, but you can use mineral oil or vegetable oil, I used mineral oil on a calf that was bloating, but that was bloat for sure, just her left side ballooning out, pain etc etc, it was a close call with her. The odd thing about your lamb is that it has gone on a while I am presuming, not just hours, that doesn't sound like regular bloat. Could she have eaten something and got a blockage?


That's what I asked the vet and he said he didn't think so since she'd be dead by now or in more pain. Her tummies aren't tight like a blockage. We are on day 6 with this now.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

bknthesdle said:


> Sounds very much like the lamb I lost.  I tried all the normal things. Pepto, baking soda, yogurt, Gas X, mineral oil (3x), enema, trying tubing her to let the air out, walking. None of it worked. She still seemed in fairly good spirits minus grinding her teeth slightly........................


That's about how I'm feeling right now. This is the reason the vet didn't do the surgery on her the other day. 



Goatsandsheep said:


> I had a bottle lamb last year that kept bloating my vet recommend Mylanta and it work great. About 5cc should work. Shelly


I've used 2 different antacids with no results.

Can bloat get past the stomachs where the medicine doesn't reach it? 

I brought her inside last night and massaged her stomach for 3 hours. There was lots of gurgling by the time I was finished, but no less gas. When DH took her back to her mom, she nursed for a long time. Other than that, I have only seen the mom kick both babies away after a few seconds of nursing. I am going to file their teeth this morning - just in case that's part of the problem. I caught the little ewe nibbling her mom's grain....so I removed her from the stall until mom was finished. I'll leave the mom and babies inside again today so there's no chance the little one eats any grass today.

Is there anything I can do to make the milk replacer I've been offering more tasty to her? She doesn't like it at all. I'm feeding it because she's so thin and only a few ounces a couple times a day. Her brother will scarf it down but I struggle to get drop down the little ewe lamb.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

WoW callie. I've never seen a lamb bloat like that. Thanks for the pic. I would have taken it very serious too.
That' s what my vet states is soft bloat. Can you just stall her up with mom for a few days so she cant eat pasture?


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## Kate Henderson (May 10, 2002)

Have you checked her teeth? I know this sounds way off....but I have had lambs with very sharp teeth and momma doesn't stand still very long...so lamb gets shortchanged on milk (and the other gets more than their share.... a simple remedy, if they feel sharp, use an emory board to smooth down. Usually you will catch this early on, but lamb is still young...and needs the milk.


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## valcwby01 (Dec 15, 2009)

WOW!! I don't know!! If it was bloat, I am sure you would have lost her by now (rumen bloat). THE MOST EFFECTIVE AND ALMOST SURE WAYS OF DEALING WITH BLOAT IS VEGETABLE OIL!!! I have used it every time I had bloat, and the only one I have lost to bloat was one I could not get the oil to in time. She was pretty bad when we found her.
Keep us updated, please!!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Is there anything I can do to make the *milk replacer* I've been offering more tasty to her?


I'd try stopping the replacer and give her cows milk.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

QUOTE=Fowler;5846594]WoW callie. I've never seen a lamb bloat like that. Thanks for the pic. I would have taken it very serious too.
That' s what my vet states is soft bloat. Can you just stall her up with mom for a few days so she cant eat pasture?[/QUOTE]

Yes. That's what I'm doing. It doesn't seem like enough. She's nursing from her mom again. You'd think she'd be cranky or something being that filled with air. I also have to keep her away from the hay, so when I feed hay, I bring the lamb to the house.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I don't have cow's milk and in MI...well, it's difficult and no dairy is going to give me any milk. She hates the MR. He brother loves it. She loves yogurt and cottage cheese though. 

Will oil work when the bloat is this far into her system? I will give her some tonight. I just can't see how this can't mean there's some kind of blockage somewhere. That gas ought to come OUT! I'm not sure I want to be there when it does though.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *Will oil work* when the bloat is this far into her system?


It should

I had an adult sheep that looked a lot like that but never seemed to suffer any ill effects.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I guess I thought oil only worked on frothy bloat. This can't be frothy bloat, can it?


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## Amy S (Mar 10, 2011)

OK, I am going to go out on a limb here, but when we would have to occasionally have to raise an orphan, be it horse or goat, we would routinely make a "manure cocktail" to initiate digestive microbes. I realize she isnt an orphan.......but we would take a handful of FRESH manure from a healthy , parasite free adult and squeeze any liquids through a thin cloth into the milk and do this for about 24 hours worth of feedings. Repeat if needed. The power of those good bacteria is pretty amazing. Sheep manure is pretty dry and you may have to dip it into the milk. 
just thought I'd mention it.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> This can't be *frothy bloat*, can it?


I think it almost HAS to be unless there is a physical* blockage*:

Merck Veterinary Manual



> Bloat is an overdistention of the rumenoreticulum with the gases of fermentation, either in the form of a *persistent foam* mixed with the ruminal contents&#8212;called primary or* frothy bloat*, or in the form of free gas separated from the ingesta&#8212;called secondary or free-gas bloat. It is predominantly a disorder of cattle but may also be seen in sheep. The susceptibility of individual cattle to bloat varies and is genetically determined.


 


> In *secondary ruminal tympany*, or *free-gas bloat*,* physical obstruction* of eructation is caused by esophageal obstruction *due to a foreign body* (eg, potatoes, apples, turnips, kiwifruit), stenosis, or *pressure from enlargement outside the esophagus* (as from lymphadenopathy).
> 
> Interference with esophageal groove function in vagal indigestion and diaphragmatic hernia may cause chronic ruminal tympany. *This also occurs in tetanus*. Tumors and other lesions of the esophageal groove or the reticular wall are less common causes of obstructive bloat. There also may be interference with the nerve pathways involved in the eructation reflex.
> 
> Lesions of the wall of the reticulum (which contains tension receptors and receptors that discriminate between gas, foam, and liquid) may interrupt the normal reflex that is essential for escape of gas from the rumen.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Not sure I'm ready for the manure drink. 

the vet says she wouldn't have lasted this long if it was an obstruction. I tried gasX today..Nothing. SO I guess It's oil now. She's in the house with me while her mom is out in the pasture. 

I really appreciate all the help from everyone.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

5 cc of oil didn't do anything for her. Do I need to give her more than that?


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Kate Henderson said:


> Have you checked her teeth? I know this sounds way off....but I have had lambs with very sharp teeth and momma doesn't stand still very long...so lamb gets shortchanged on milk (and the other gets more than their share.... a simple remedy, if they feel sharp, use an emory board to smooth down. Usually you will catch this early on, but lamb is still young...and needs the milk.


I did file her teeth earlier this week. They weren't especially sharp...but I didn't want to leave a stone unturned. She does get to nurse sometimes. Sometimes, mom doesn't want them to.


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## Carol K (May 10, 2002)

If this is her 3rd day off grass I would suppose she should be showing some improvement, but it doesn't sound like she is. Would it be worth reporting that to your vet and seeing what his thoughts are on her?
When my calf had bloat the mineral oil had her fixed in an hour and she was back on hay right away. 

Carol K


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Callieslamb said:


> 5 cc of oil didn't do anything for her. Do I need to give her more than that?


 
I never give *less* than half a cup


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Wow! I'm way off on the oil amount. Maybe that's why she isn't getting better? She really didn't like the oil. Gagged and everything..... I can try more of it though. Gagging is preferable to dying. She doesn't seem distressed at all, or lacking mobility. Her tummy is much tighter this afternoon that is was yesterday. 

I am calling the vet tomorrow to see what he thinks. It was Monday when we saw him last. He didn't suggest oil or anything, just time. I don't want to face a weekend without his input.

I just found out that 30ccs is 1 ounce. So she's only been drinking bout 20 ccs from me a day all week.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> She really didn't like the oil. Gagged and everything


I use a drenching syringe, and get it far into the back of the mouth, then rub their tongue with the tip until they start swallowing before I inject any.

I've heard they can't feel it in their mouth, or taste it, so I do it slowly


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I'll look for one of those. The vet is finally open so I want to see what he will say.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

The vet said he thinks she might have something wrong internally. She's not distressed. She jumped on and off the window sill while at the office. She isn't gaining weight. He said that if we went further medically, we would rack up a bill beyond what is economically fesible. I've offered her as a gift to the girl that was going to buy her. If she can save her, it will be a good deal for her. She's a teenager trying to build flock that will help support her in college. Rats. For now, I am going to feed her MR 3-4 times a day. She doesn't like the pritchard nipple so I will continue with the syringe. She took 20 ccs tonight. She will also lap milk up from my hand so I might try her with bowl. Double rats.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> She doesn't like the pritchard nipple


I ususally enlarge the holes a little.
Often they are too small and will collapse when they suck

It's frustrating when nothing you try works


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I did enlarge the holes. She just doesn't know how to suck very well. She's starting to get it. 

There's a possibility that her insides just grew faster than her outsides. I'm going to measure her tummy and compare to her brothers. They might be the same size. I guess this is not too uncommon in lambs that haven't had sufficient nourishment. There's so much to learn. I still haven't seen her poop.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I still haven't seen her poop.


Put her in the back of your truck and drive 50 ft and you'll see more than you ever wanted to see


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## lasergrl (Nov 24, 2007)

If you havent seen her poop, she could have a problem similiar to mega colon? She has all the symptoms. Not sure if lambs get that though.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Put her in the back of your truck and drive 50 ft and you'll see more than you ever wanted to see


:hysterical::hysterical:
Maybe the backseat of the car would give her more incentive?



lasergrl said:


> If you havent seen her poop, she could have a problem similiar to mega colon? She has all the symptoms. Not sure if lambs get that though.


I have no idea. I've never heard of mega colon. But if she hasn't pooped in 9 days, wouldn't there be some symptoms by now? Wouldn't she be pretty uncomfortable? Is is possible to go that long with out pooping? Though I consider her a bottle baby now, I leave her out with her mom. She ran 150 ft across the pasture to get to her mom today - lickety split just like the other sheep.


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

This may not help IDK ..........But the pictures look just like " hay belly " to me .I seen it in lambs that are a little older then yours espsily (sp) when the pasture is soggy .


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

It's possible that she ate some hay and it didn't digest properly - or even grass. Our pastures have been very dry. I haven't let the lambs out when it's raining yet. I've also kept them confined to one pasture until this week. That pasture was low on grass to begine with. It's still early to be putting them on the pastures here yet. I don't want to ruin the grazing we will have this year. I let the ewes out for 4 hours during the day and the rams stay out all night.

She is finally taking the bottle without forcing it into her mouth. She drank 2 oz this morning and last night pretty easily.


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## Sunmill (Apr 26, 2011)

How did this lamb turn out?

We dealt with a bad run of bloat with loaner sheep's lambs who weren't vaccinated, occasionally beer would work, but mostly tetracycline or pen-g orally was the only thing that helped.

Naturally we thought that tubing the soapy water into them would help, until I learned of how the esophageal tube elongates in reaction to sucking. Otherwise the tube ends up in their rumen which is not where the bloat is. Sometimes you can overflow the rumen and get the bloat remedy into the abomasum, but you risk it going into their lungs too that way.
Forcing them to suck down half a bottle of beer or warm water with tetracycline powder was much more effective. 
Oh, and vaccinating the lambs.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

You can vaccinate against bloat? I give the CD/T at one month and 2 months. What you said is exactly what we experienced - the bloat was further down than a tube could reach. Orally feeding anti-bloat agents did nothing for her. 

We lost her. She did well for 2 weeks after her 2nd visit to the vet. I had just quit bottling her again- or rather - she quit coming for milk and she was doing well. Growing a bit. I went out to do chores one day, she wasn't with the other sheep. I saw a tuft of white in the pasture and dreaded what I would find. She was still alive but couldn't get up due to the size of her tummy. She'd been laying in the sun for who knows how long. I cooled her off with a bath and she ran around the house for a while. We gave her mineral oil - lots of it. She took a nap and then got up obviously distressed. We decided to puncture her side and the stinkiest gas came out- just like a deflating old balloon. There was green foam there too. We used a 16 gauge needle. But only one side deflated and then not all the way. 

I have a handy-dandy vet-to-be friend that was on the phone with us helping - giving me the guts to do what I had to do (thanks Anna) since the vet wasn't in. We ended up having to deflate her four times. The 3rd and 4th times, we put oil in the same hole we used to deflate her. Nothing helped her. How she was walking and alert at all with that much gas in her was amazing. Finally, she laid down and rested for 2 hours. Suddenly, she started thrashing. DH held her until she was gone. 

The vet was pretty sure that something was wrong with her due to all we tried and how nothing helped her at all. If I had to do it over - I'd pull her from her mom and keep her in the house with us - with total control over what she ate. I was too worried about her mom's udder and raising one lamb by itself.


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## bknthesdle (Mar 27, 2011)

I am so sorry that you lost her.


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## Looking4ewes (Apr 30, 2006)

I had a newborn lamb that looked like that after 36 hours. Upon close inspection, it was found that he didn't have a complete anal opening. I don't know how long he would have lasted, I put him down immediately. I also lost a 10 day old lamb unexpectantly. I opened him up and found a grass obstruction in his second stomach, with his lower intestines completely emptied of food. He showed no signs of distress prior to his death. 

An autopsy of this lamb would have been interesting. 

ps. I also know of your friend. She took two hard cases from me earlier this year. Quite a remarkable young lady.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Thanks, bknthesdle.

Looking4ewes - nice to know who you are. She's fantastic. She'd have done an autopsy and I'd have watched. But....she's too far away. alas.


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