# Barking LGD..... ;)



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

We have a 8 month old Great Pyr/Maremma pup. The last month or so, he barks....a lot....at night.

The neighbors (3 of them came walking up to my house tonight) to let me know that the barking wasn't acceptable and that I needed to figure out how to make it stop.

Now, I know they are supposed to bark.....BUT is there a way to minimize it?

After one of the neighbors said, "you have a right to farm, but not a right to be annoying," I thought I might tie up the dog right next to his house  but I have restrained....so far.

I have him on a chain right now during the night because he is too rough with the baby lambs. He tries to play with them, but it gets out of control. So I'm wondering if that might be part of the problem. 

The other thing, which I didn't dare tell these neighbors, is that we are bringing home another LGD pup on Saturday. She's much younger, but I'm hoping that they will play and keep each other company instead of barking AND the playing too rough with the lambs. 

Thoughts????


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I think you will have twice as much barking and neighbors twice as mad.


----------



## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Twice the chasing of the lambs, also.


----------



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

Hmmm...seriously? I got some advice from a couple well experienced LGD owners and both said to get a 2nd dog. 

What would you do if you only had 1 dog?


----------



## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I am not understanding how getting an even younger and less well behaved puppy is going to improve your situation or that of your neighbors.

2 silly puppies who play together and ignore your commands are going to be far more work than having only one.
That just seems like simple arithmetic to me.


----------



## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

How big is your predator problem with all those neighbors close by?


----------



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

Mainly Coyotes. There is a large meadow/draw area that they are in. We hear them regularly, see them occasionally.


----------



## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

Admittedly, your comment about tying the current puppy up by the neighbors fence got my hackles up.
That just doesn't sound real neighborly, nor does it sound like a good way to use your new puppy.

Best of luck with your dogs.


----------



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

I was totally kidding. They just were pretty rude and not willing to listen to what I had to say about training LGD's being different than regular dogs. And also wanting me to think that it was their decision if our current dog got to stay or not.


----------



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

As well as I'm frustrated that they didn't come talk about it sooner, they just come tonight blazing guns, not very neighborly IMO either.


----------



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

And I am open to advice on this situation. I thought I was getting good info from 2 LGD breeders, who told me another dog would help--but if that is not the case, I would like to know now before we are committed.


----------



## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Neighbors probably reached their limit and came to talk instead of slowly warning you of brewing trouble.


----------



## JPiantedosi (Apr 23, 2012)

Find an LGD that is less bark and more bite. Then let the neighbors come over throwing a fit.... Just make sure they have to walk past the beware of dog sign first......


----------



## zephyrcreek (Mar 30, 2012)

Maremma's normally bark less than many LGD's, and Pyr's are heavy barkers. Barking is their first layer of defense. All LGD's SHOULD bark. It is much safer for them to discourage a predator with barking than to engage and possibly get hurt. If it is not barking then it is not doing it's job. 

The 2nd dog will often help the situation, but each pair and situation is different. When we brought our first Maremma home she barked non stop for the first few weeks. At that time she was on a cable at night as I did not fully trust her with our sheep. Once she was off the chain we noticed a major drop in her barking. She now does rounds all night long, and I can hear a bark every once in awhile throughout the perimeter of the farm. She was even up at the house for a few seconds last night. 

The scary part of your situation is that if your dog leaves your property your neighbors could "take care of the situation" very quickly. I know taking the dog off the cable and adding a second dog did help in my situation. If my neighbors do complain I will remind them of their dog killing my entire turkey flock, and that their animals are also being protected by my dogs presence.


----------



## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Even though you tied your dog up for a reason, not chasing the lambs, it may be causing more barking. A good lgd can get frustrated when he can't stay with his sheep. How many sheep do you have? 2 lgds will not solve your problem with chasing lambs or barking. Don't have a good solution to your problem. I suspect if the neighbors are not tolerant of barking you may end up having to get rid of your existing dog, and maybe sell off your sheep if you start losing any to predators.


----------



## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

RoyalValley said:


> And I am open to advice on this situation. I thought I was getting good info from 2 LGD breeders, who told me another dog would help--but if that is not the case, I would like to know now before we are committed.


Let me guess. They had a good one to sell also or had a friend that would sell you one.


----------



## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Pyrs bark a lot which annoys me personally, so if it is close quarters with the neighbors I can see how the barking would bother them. So I would not chose anything with Pyr if I had close neighbors, but that is neither here nor there since he is already there  

I have two LGD they are Anatolian/Pyr mixes. One looks far more Anatolian and he only barks when he knows there is an actual threat- he is 3 and a half years old. 
I have a just turned 2 yr old who thinks birds, tumbleweeds, the neighbor's blowing trash and etc are all threats, I also think he loves the sound of his voice, funny he looks pure Pyr and feels the need to bark like one. Some days I am not sure when he actually breathes lol. 

Two get into more trouble. Neither of mine ever chased or harmed the livestock, but if one did I am sure the other would learn the bad habit as well, then you would have two chasing, maybe getting super excited to the point of mouthing, nipping the sheep/goats/whatever or chasing them to death. You need to train and fix your current dog's issues before bringing in a new one who will be double the work. 

If the one is so far keeping the coyotes away there is no reason to get a second one. Train this one, exercise him, give him toys, things to chew on just like a regular dog. He might be a working dog but he had similar needs to a house dog in those areas. 
As far as chasing you can try a shock collar with remote, a dangle stick or tire to slow him down. I have no experience with these things but that needs to stop asap, especially before it gets to be Summer.

Since he is rough on the sheep is there a way to build him a nighttime pen right next to them and maybe use tarps or whatnot to muffle the sound of his bark? 

I would not get another LGD at this time. It really will double your problems.


----------



## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

RoyalValley said:


> we are bringing home another LGD pup on Saturday. She's much younger, but I'm hoping that they will play and keep each other company instead of barking
> 
> Thoughts????


They will both bark all night. That is what they do. GPs, and some other types of LGDs, bark...... all night at every little sound, sight, or movement.


----------



## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

if night time barking is a problem you picked the wrong breed. Pyrs bark. That's their guarding style. There is nothing you can do to make them not bark and getting a second one will only increase the problems. Also....young dogs should never be left alone with lambs or kids. Young dogs really should not be with adults unsupervised until you know they are safe. The biggest mistake people make with LGDs is assuming that the dog needs no training. They need training... a LOT of it. They don't have the prey drive instincts of many other breeds but they still have a PLAY drive and need to be taught that playing with stock is uacceptable.


----------



## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

RoyalValley said:


> they just come tonight blazing guns, not very neighborly IMO either.


I understand being irritated with neighbors. It is much easier to "love your neighbor as yourself" when they live a mile away rather than close to you. 

I personally would have been very nice to them, then pretty much ignored the complaint. If you live in the country, you have dogs. It is just kind of a country lifestyle, so they need to get used to it. I would be wary of them trying to hurt your dog though, if you feel they are that type of people.


----------



## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

I have dogs, but I respect my neighbors and do not let them bark at night when they go out. I expect the same from my neighbors. My closest neighbors with dogs are about a mile away and they sound like they are in my yard when they bark at night. There are other dogs father away that I can still hear, barking travels for miles. I work afternoon and when I get home the area dogs let out a few barks and stop. That is fine they did their job, no ones going to complain. If they barked all night for no reason I would expect them to fix it on their own but if they didn't after a couple nights of no sleep I would show up at their house holding a grudge too. It shouldn't take a neighbor complaining for someone to stop a problem before it becomes a bigger problem. 

More dogs equal more barking and the pups going to model all the older dogs behaviors.


----------



## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

Instead of chaining your dog at night, pen him or the lambs. It will cause less frustration. 

I have a GP mix who is around 5 1/2 months. When she barks, I go out and ask her what she's barking at. If it's just her bark to bark, I thank her, tell her everything's fine and give her a pat. I find she stops barking after that most of the time. Now and again she will continue to bark. I just tell her, "That's enough." 

For serious barking meaning something is out there, I leave her alone. That's her job.

I understand what you're saying about the new pup. You're thinking they will play with each other and leave the lambs alone. It could happen that way or the older one will teach the younger one to play with and chase the lambs.


----------



## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Is the puppy really offering protection? Coyotes are pretty smart and I think they would figure out that the dog is not a threat, just background noise. Are your lambs in a secure enclosure? It seems to me they are safe at night. You have added to the problem by chaining the dog. Dogs that are tied up bark in frustration, along with regular barking. He is frustrated, and he feels insecure because the monsters can get to him and he can't get them (or escape from them), which increases the barking.

He doesn't know a threatening sound from a neutral sound. You could sit outside all night and train him, telling him, "thank you" calmly and bringing him to you every time he barks so he stops worrying about every tiny sound. Otherwise, I would put the dog in your house at night. He will stop barking from feeling insecure. He will stop barking at every little sound because fewer sounds will penetrate the walls. Put a baby monitor in with the lambs so that you can be aware of something that alarms them, at which point you run outside with the dog. Good dogs don't happen by accident.

Oh, and a second dog would be a good idea. DOG, not puppy. TRAINED DOG, not nuisance.


----------



## DaniR1968 (May 24, 2008)

My pup knows the difference between a real threat and the neighbors or their dogs in their fenced yard or even a rabbit in the front yard that she can't get to. Her bark is much more serious when there is a real threat. Now, I don't expect her to take on a real threat but her bark is a pretty good deterrent. 

I don't sit outside all night or call her to me. When I hear her bark, I go outside. If it's nothing serious, she comes to me. She is looking for guidance from me. I let her know it's okay and she's done a good job. Since she doesn't sit out there barking all night at nothing, I would say it's working.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Pyrs just bark. Some of them bark every breath all night long. It's instinct and there's not much you can do about it.


----------



## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Maura said:


> Is the puppy really offering protection? Coyotes are pretty smart and I think they would figure out that the dog is not a threat, just background noise. Are your lambs in a secure enclosure? It seems to me they are safe at night. You have added to the problem by chaining the dog. Dogs that are tied up bark in frustration, along with regular barking.


GPs just bark, all night, every night at any noise, movement, breeze and just for fun too. I personally wouldn't tie the dog up because it is just bad for LGDs to be tied, but tied or not GPs bark. It's what they do.


----------



## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

Maura said:


> Is the puppy really offering protection? Coyotes are pretty smart and I think they would figure out that the dog is not a threat, just background noise. Are your lambs in a secure enclosure? It seems to me they are safe at night. You have added to the problem by chaining the dog. Dogs that are tied up bark in frustration, along with regular barking. He is frustrated, and he feels insecure because the monsters can get to him and he can't get them (or escape from them), which increases the barking.
> 
> He doesn't know a threatening sound from a neutral sound. You could sit outside all night and train him, telling him, "thank you" calmly and bringing him to you every time he barks so he stops worrying about every tiny sound. Otherwise, I would put the dog in your house at night. He will stop barking from feeling insecure. He will stop barking at every little sound because fewer sounds will penetrate the walls. Put a baby monitor in with the lambs so that you can be aware of something that alarms them, at which point you run outside with the dog. Good dogs don't happen by accident.
> 
> Oh, and a second dog would be a good idea. DOG, not puppy. TRAINED DOG, not nuisance.


Coyotes will stay away because of the barking. They go where the pickings are easiest. They would rather not mess with a dog. 

Putting him in the house at night defeats the purpose of having him and I would think would totally frustrate him as instinctively they are awake and listening for threats to the herd at night.

The problem with trying to train them as far as what constitutes a threatening sound is that you cannot hear what they can hear. So they are barking at you have no idea what but you are telling them it's ok. Every animal sound is a threat to the herd to them and predators are sneaky and quiet. 

To the op, it really sounds like you need to do some research on lgd's that have a different guarding style - or maybe even some other type of guard animal - if you plan to continue living where you do now. With neighbors who that confrontational about the barking do not be surprised if your dog ends up poisoned. He needs a new home imo.


----------



## bigfoot2you (Oct 3, 2007)

I have a 5 yr old PYR, female...........she is basically an indoor dog, she loves all our farm animals but is not an outside, working farm dog............and she BARKS! All the time! A butterfly farts and she hears it and barks for eva............a whiff in the wind is definitely a monster and must be barked at!!............for eva.............all night long, inside, she trys to bark.........I keep on her all the time.......but it never changes...........she is a BARKER......


----------



## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

I had to use a citronella bark collar on my LGD because he barked non stop all night long from sun down to sun up. When predators were really a problem he would still bark but was otherwise quiet. I took it off during the day. It is a harmless spray that smells bad to them.
And I agree they should have come over and talked calmly and politely.


----------



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

pancho said:


> Let me guess. They had a good one to sell also or had a friend that would sell you one.


LOL! Actually, they didn't. Maybe they didn't know of another answer to give me though?? Not really sure.


----------



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

mekasmom said:


> I understand being irritated with neighbors. It is much easier to "love your neighbor as yourself" when they live a mile away rather than close to you.
> 
> I personally would have been very nice to them, then pretty much ignored the complaint. If you live in the country, you have dogs. It is just kind of a country lifestyle, so they need to get used to it. I would be wary of them trying to hurt your dog though, if you feel they are that type of people.


I was actually very diplomatic about it and told them some things we would try and when they said they knew someone with sheep and 'those' kind of dogs, I said I would gladly take any suggestion they had. 

I also told them that if I could do something, it wouldn't be over night.


----------



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

I really appreciate the input. I have researched about LGD's but am only finding mixed ideas on the chasing the lambs. I do think he is mostly just playing. We have a guard llama, but she is 22 years old and we wanted him to be a replacement for her. With his behavior we actively correct him when we are in the field with him. They sheep/goats come up to the area closest to the house during the night. So they are fairly secure on their own. And maybe we don't need his added protection, I am not sure. 

We tried the stick on his collar method, and it worked while he was a SMALL puppy. Now he is 90 pounds and I think it would have to be a cinder block to keep him from doing what he wanted anyway, and I obviously didn't picture that for him. 

We have tried penning him next to the sheep, but he jumps the pens. Any and all of them. Sigh.

I'm sure part of the problem is that I am a sound sleeper, the dog doesn't bother me. I don't hear him very often. Obviously the neighbors hear him way more. We feel like he is a benefit to the farm. The breeder we got him from, has 4 of their own LGD's and their first reply was that he would grow out of the chasing lambs and then 2 that he needed a 2nd dog. 

I really am trying to get it right, just seems like there are a LOT of ideas and opinions on how to do that.


----------



## thaiblue12 (Feb 14, 2007)

Problem is when is he going to grow out of it, this year, next year? Summer is coming, you know how hot the Sun gets here, goats and sheep need not be chased long to die from heat stroke. 

Since this one is giving you issues again I say do not get another one. They really do egg each other one, so instead of one barking all night, two will. Instead of one chasing, two will. They also tend to get into trash more, run off and just do puppy misbehavior. 

Maybe another llama would have been a better choice but if you are in high country then you have larger predators to worry about then I do. 
But if you have had no losses with the llama then your set up is pretty good and he might not have been needed. 



I disagree that barking keeps coyotes away even if the dog is penned. They know the dog is penned and it cannot do anything. My older LGD is with the herd the younger is in the buck pen and trust me those dirty scavengers know it.


----------



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

Well, since we had already committed....we got the new pup. A little Akbash girl. 

So far things are going well, after 5 days. 

The two dogs are getting along very well, even though she is maybe 12 pounds and the older dog is 75 

She puts him in her place and he actually IS barking less. We are able to let him off more during the day and only penning him at night. He is not 'messing' with the sheep as much either. 

I'm hopeful that things will continue to go well, knowing that there is much work and time involved in the near future. 

P.S. Where are Akbash on barking scale?


----------



## Laurie J (Mar 9, 2005)

I'll have to agree with most of the responses on here that to get another Great Pyrenees right now...a pup no less, would be a big mistake. We have two GPs, and they are 7 years apart in age, and that has worked well for us. The older dog took the pup under her wing, and now we have an 8 year old and a 1 year old (both females), who work wonderfully together. I'd never have two pups at the same time, and that's without having to worry about barking (which they do....all night). Fortunately, we live on 50 acres in a remote area, so neighbors aren't a problem, but I honestly would consider another type of livestock guardian if we had a bunch of close neighbors. It's not worth ticking people off. When I hear our GPs in the night, to me it's a comforting "the sheep are safe" sound....but if it weren't my dogs, it would become very annoying.

Didn't see the above post when I posted this....stating that you'd got the other pup. Good luck! Hope it works out!


----------



## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Maybe I missed something, if so my apologies in advance.
You got a dog that is supposed to do a job chained up so he cant do it?
Like someone said the first line of defense is to make noise and try to scare the intruder off. Think about it many a dog has lost an eye to a house cat, that they could snap in two with one head shake!
So he is chained up and hears something, sets up a ruckus, well now he has no way to go take care of business all he can do is make noise. 
Put the dog in with the sheep, he will figure it out. Adding another dog, will give him someone to bark back and forth with. Treat your neighbors right, your life may depend on it someday


----------



## anita_fc (May 24, 2008)

We have both Pyrs (3) and Akbash (2). The Akbash bark much less than the Pyrs. One of the Pyrs is a full time house and yard dog. The only time he does not bark is when we give him the run of the pasture. So I think what you had was a regular case of barrier frustration.

While two dogs DO have the potential to be twice as much trouble, a committed owner (as it sounds like the OP is) can handle it by being observant and correcting attempts to play with the sheep. As long as this is done consistently, the pups will learn. However, it is a longer learning curve with 2 pups as opposed to one older experienced LGD with a pup.

We use electronic collars to discourage messing with the livestock, either a citronella remote or shock remote. Citronella worked as well as the shock variety did and they are cheaper to buy, but they don't hold up over the long term. That may not be a factor if you're only going to train these two dogs, and then not worry about it again until you need replacements again.

The two Akbash are replacements for the Pyrs. We started them last fall - an adult 5 yr old rescue male and a puppy female. So far, the bark factor is much reduced over the Pyrs. :-D


----------



## RoyalValley (Apr 29, 2009)

We've seen improvement with the barking and with the sheep by having the pup. They do play together and I think if he was truly just being bored and needed a distraction from the sheep, so far it has worked. She is not a barker unless it's something unknown, he is still barking some, but it's not like it was.

I know we are just starting this but we've been able to keep the older Pyr off his chain for the last few days, even at night with no problems or concerns at this point. We are very consistent in reprimanding him when he does chase sheep, which has literally been only 2 times this last week.


----------

