# Putting in a garden on bermuda grass



## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

Moving in to the new place, I need to establish some garden beds. The best position is on top of very well-established bermuda grass.

Is it best to dig is all out and replace the soil before building raised beds? What is the best method for keeping bermuda in check during the growing season?


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I have fought bermuda in two different gardens now. I hate the stuff- almost to the point that I would rather have a brown yard in summer than bermuda- okay, not quite that bad.

We rented a sod cutter and stripped all the grass away. I piled that off to the side and then formed my beds on the dirt area (a few months later, I used the piles of sod, now composted for filling some of the beds. I only tilled in the beds, not the path areas. The following year, I still had lots of Bermuda coming up in the paths and in the beds. So, I covered the paths with a very heavy landscaping fabric and only had bermuda on the edges of the beds. What I do now - is carry around a sprayer of round-up with me when I am out there and spray whenever I see any. And that is the only thing that keeps me from being organic. Vinegar didn't kill it-neither did cardboard or newspaper or even heavy mulch. The stuff will just grow sideways around whatever you put down. It is even coming up in our new driveway on the edges where they scraped the sod off to pour the asphalt. 

I have a friend that built her raised beds over the top of bermuda and wow did she ever have trouble with it. i am afraid, even if you scrape the soil off, you will still have bermuda roots to deal with. 

I would advise to remove the bermuda from the entire area. Till. Wait a couple of weeks and then till again. And maybe repeat that over and over. Unless you are going to do a traditional garden layout with rows that you can till all summer. Or, just be ready to fight with it. Bermuda is very hard to get out by weeding unless your soil is soaked. Which is why i finally resorted to -Round-up.

Good luck!


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Read Ruth Stout.


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## Randy Rooster (Dec 14, 2004)

Id hit your future garden area at least a couple of times hard with round up- probably about a month apart. And this is the wrong time of year to do it. Bermuda doesnt get going good till the temps hit about 80 degrees here and you want to get it when it is actively growing. You may miss a gardening season next year because of that. You cant dig or till or cultivate out bermuda grass . Any tiny sprig of root you miss will turn into a good sized patch in no time. The only way to get rid of it in a large garden is to poison it. Even that may not keep it totally at bay. Fighting bermuda grass is like fighting fire ants. You can control it but never really be rid of it.


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## LMonty (Jul 31, 2006)

Had a heck of a time with it this past summer, our first year here. I now have the garden area in pig panels, with a couple of pigs in it. they are digging up the bermuda (and everything else) and eating the roots. I'm hoping they will be more effective, and tastier! than roundup.  course I cant say for sure until later this year, but considering how well they are tillling it up and eating all the easy to see roots, I'm thinkin git may work pretty well.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

Repeat....Ruth Stout.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Round up dont kill Bermuda--and I have all Ruth Stouts book.
I have also fought Bermuda for over 40 years. There is a new spray called "over the top" especially for bermuda, dont work. NOTHING works!!
Live with it--thats why I'm being cremated--bermuda would find me otherwise!!!


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2007)

Bermuda grass is the gardener's gift from the Devil I am quite convinced.

There are a few things that ordinary mulch will not handle, no matter how deep, and Bermuda grass is one of them.

I'm trying a combination of several sheets of heavy brown paper (feed sacks) or cardboard laid on the bottom then covered with a heavy layer of mulch to hold it in place. I figure that probably still won't kill it 100% but maybe slow it down enough that I can stay ahead of it by pulling what manages to come up in the rows.

.....Alan.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

ceresone said:


> Round up dont kill Bermuda


I beg to differ with your statement. I don't know why a glyphosate type of product didn't kill your Bermuda grass but it certainly did mine.

In helping to diagnosis--did you spray it after it had become actively growing, meaning late spring? 

Did you use a surfactant to break any waxy coating on the leaves to help the chemical solution to adhere better? In lieu of a surfactant a few drops of dish soap will work most of the time.

Did you allow plenty of time for the chemical to fully work before destroying the top growth of the plant. I believe the old labels called for waiting a week to 10 days. However I found that I needed to wait a full two weeks before destroying the tops and roots by rototiling.

Did you use the correct rate as per the chemical label? Too much and you will only burn the tops off, too little and you won't kill the entire plant.

If I lived closer I would offer to come spray your Bermuda with a glyphosate product for you in an attempt to sway your thoughts established from former usage. 

Having said that, I did have a few sprigs come up the following year after treatment but they were so weakened that it didn't take much to kill them.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Oh, yes, I did it all--and besides, I sprayed 4 times last summer with round-up, and twice per instructions with over the top--all I managed to hurt was a lilac bush 7' away from what I sprayed--didnt think it was supposed to migrate either..
AT, I cover one flower bed with cardboard, black plastic, then landscape fabric, each about 2 weeks apart. then, I put a layer of wood chips over it. Five, yes, 5, years later, I took it all up. I had a solid network of white roots growing across to reach the sides.
Nope--when I say I've fought it 40 years, I have-and nothing works.


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## Oggie (May 29, 2003)

I imagine that I'll try to dig out as much as I can and battle the rest with what ever it takes.

I realize that, it I were smart, I might lay down black plastic sheeting and starve/sunburn the stuff away for a summer growing season. But I can't wait that long. I've given up most of the acreage in the move and if I don't have a garden this summer, I'll go even more insane.

Perhaps I'll compromise and make a smaller raised bed garden and declare war on Bermuda in the rest of the area.

Thanks for the input!


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## Sondra Peterson (Dec 5, 2002)

I am laying down feed sacks and then hay and then planting and hope for the best


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

Windy in Kansas said:


> I beg to differ with your statement. I don't know why a glyphosate type of product didn't kill your Bermuda grass but it certainly did mine.
> 
> In helping to diagnosis--did you spray it after it had become actively growing, meaning late spring?
> 
> ...


 Absolutely. Not only will glyphosate kill bermuda, it'll kill it quicker and deader than it will most things.

Oggie, trying to dig out bermuda, or just remove the sod,is a waste of time and effort. It'll be back in the spring, happy as can be. Cardboard and other mlches won't do it either, at least not within anything like an acceptable time frame. Your best bet is to leave it alone until it starts to come out of dormancy, spray it with 2-3 oz. to the gallon of wter, wait two weeks, and till it. The hotter and drier the conditions, the better. Until then, if it makes you feel better, just cuss at it.

It's hard to keep bermuda out of a garden directly bordered by bermuda. I didn't do it this year, but in the past, I've had a mulched "no man's land" line of defense anround my raised beds, about a foot wide. Spraying anything that comes up in it helps a grip to keep bermuda, centipede, florida betony, and other stuff that spreads by way of runners or rizomes out of the garden.

Windy's tip about using a squirt of dish soap is a good one. Not only will it break down oils that might protect a plant from the chemical it makes it "stick" better, and helps it work, sholud you get rainfall after spraying. Just make sure that when you're mixing everything in your sprayer, you add the soap AFTER you fill it with water, or the suds will give you a hassle.
As a landscaper and homesteader in "bermuda country", I tell ya' that glyphosate is your friend........


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## swamp man (Dec 25, 2005)

ceresone said:


> Oh, yes, I did it all--and besides, I sprayed 4 times last summer with round-up, and twice per instructions with over the top--all I managed to hurt was a lilac bush 7' away from what I sprayed--didnt think it was supposed to migrate either..
> AT, I cover one flower bed with cardboard, black plastic, then landscape fabric, each about 2 weeks apart. then, I put a layer of wood chips over it. Five, yes, 5, years later, I took it all up. I had a solid network of white roots growing across to reach the sides.
> Nope--when I say I've fought it 40 years, I have-and nothing works.


You did something wrong.
Do you mean to say that you sprayed bermuda with roundup, and it didn't kill it, but killed a lilac 7' away?. Impossible.
Glyphosate doesn't "migrate" and has almost zero root transfer ability. It dosn't work like that. Properly applied, it doesn't burn out the top of a plant, but removes it's ability to photosynthesize, thus starving the root to death. In fact, if you sprayed only half of a tree or bush, most likely, only the sprayed half will die, but the other half will plug right along, unscathed..........that's why complete coverage is key to success while using it.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Doggone it--now I have to try to convince my dead lilac that I didnt do it..


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Oggie said:


> I imagine that I'll try to dig out as much as I can and battle the rest with what ever it takes.
> 
> I realize that, it I were smart, I might lay down black plastic sheeting and starve/sunburn the stuff away for a summer growing season. But I can't wait that long. I've given up most of the acreage in the move and if I don't have a garden this summer, I'll go even more insane.
> 
> ...


Can you put some kind of weed block extending down 6" or so under you raised bed walls? It would keep roots from the surrounding areas from invading you bed. 

You could also try several layers of cardboard in the bottoms of your beds instead of digging. Be sure and get it up tight around all the edges. Should act as a block to keep the grass from coming up.

Can you really go any more insane than you already are?


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## VALENT (Dec 6, 2004)

Around here as well, glyophosphate is not all that good for killing bermuda. I guess if you sprayed heavily and thoroughly it would work. But I know that when spraying the other grasses and weeds and bermuda, the bermuda is always(with some minor exceptions) the first to rebound. I dont spray a lot but I do watch what others do quite closely. 

Personally, when I am faced with this stuff, I till a lot hoping to destroy it- and I stress hoping. 

If you are going with raised beds with sides, I think putting a heavy layer of cardboard or feed sacks and then adding your soil will help you immensely.
If no raised sides, then you will have to be quite a bit more vigilant.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I saved all the paper sacks from the grocery store and laid down corrugated cardboard and paper sacks over it, then covered the whole mess with straw. Couple of weeks I had soil. The grass around the edges started creeping in, but under the cardboard everything was long dead and eaten by worms.

Or I could bring my truck over and park on top of it. That seems to kill the grass too.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

LMonty said:


> Had a heck of a time with it this past summer, our first year here. I now have the garden area in pig panels, with a couple of pigs in it. they are digging up the bermuda (and everything else) and eating the roots. I'm hoping they will be more effective, and tastier! than roundup.  course I cant say for sure until later this year, but considering how well they are tillling it up and eating all the easy to see roots, I'm thinkin git may work pretty well.


Thats what I am doing for a patch of it invading the garden from the Hwy I think the hwy dept planted it. anyway the pigs are going at it.


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