# horse meat?



## Treewhisper (Nov 24, 2010)

Hi
i've been reading in the media about people going into a fit about having horse meat in their hamburgers and sausages and the food is being pulled from the stores. 

I hate to sound really ignorant here but i figured i would ask you horse folks what is bad about eating horse meat? I've never eaten horsemeat myself but is it a cultural thing for western countries, is it like the way people dont eat rabbit because of peter cottontail and the easter bunny? or is something really wrong with the meat itself? Thanks.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

It's cultural. There are some drugs given to horses that should not be eaten, but you can keep the horses off those drugs for the recommended length of time and there isn't a problem with it.

Exactly the same mindset that the 'pet rabbit' people have ... rabbits are pets ... not livestock/food.


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

I agree with SFM in KY. The common response I hear is "But you wouldn't eat your dog!" _Of course_ I wouldn't eat my dog. But I see no reason to deprive those who enjoy dog to eat them.

I've known some really wonderful dairy cows with beautiful hearts and minds, but that hasn't kept me from eating beef. I think the Indians did it best. Animals were harvested wild while healthy, and were sacrificed with reverence and little or no waste.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I have no problem with it, and have eaten horse meat when I was young. No big deal, and being a "horse lover" I still am not against it. But if it is in something it should be labeled as having horse meat in it though. LOL


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

It is cultural; people in other countries eat horsemeat and don't have the same issues that we have in America.

BUT - it is wrong for it not to be disclosed, and also brings up concern about whether the horses were intended to be used as meat animals or not. I certainly would not want to eat horsemeat that had recently been dewormed with Moxidectin, or received antibiotics, DMSO or diagnosed with any sort of disease.

So, I support those people who are upset about eating undisclosed horsemeat - if they are not disclosing it as horse meat - why not?


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

If people _would_ eat horse meat, we'd have a market for the unwanted/unnecessary animals that are currently flooding the rescues and craigslist.......


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

My wife recently found an old grocery list of her mothers. "Horse meat" was on the list but the now 95 year old grandmother doesn't remember it. Evidently it was available in the late 40's/early 50's. I don't care if people eat it or not myself. 

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

It was just a few years ago that some of the finest restaurants in NYC stopped putting horse meat on their menu. All that had to change when the so called peta people thought they were doing a good thing in stopping the processing of horse meat in the USA. But they created a larger problem because of it, horses being just turned loose to fend for themselves. That is not a good thing at all better to see them filling someones belly somewhere then dying a horrible death somewhere maybe even being run into be a car etc.


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## Harmony_Meadows (Nov 4, 2007)

The one big issue with horse meat...aside from the folks who think is is the greatest sin to send a horse for meat....is bute. It has serious negative effects in humans and does not currently have a safe detox period like some drugs. That is one of the main issues they are having with North American horse meat. 
But as someone said, it is also that is was not disclosed. The fact that it was labeled beef when it wasn't is a big part of the controversy as well.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

There was a push in the '70s to sell horse in the supermarket but it failed dismally. 

Like 2horses I'd rather see them eaten than neglected.


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## arnie (Apr 26, 2012)

when working with some itailan men in Chicago they said horse meat was very good sweeter than beef .and would take a short trip to Indiana to purchace it for certain occachions . but that said if you buy beef pork of buffalo meat in a store that is what it should be .if they want to sell horse camel and kangaroo it should be labeled as such or at least they could call it mystery meat . stoping the slaughter of horses in the US has been the cruelest thing the idiots at peta have ever got done from there comfy highrise condos .I see old or unwanted horses being released onto public lands or stripmines to starve when they could have been used to at least make dog food instead of buzzard or cyoute food :soap:


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

If it was pork being sold as beef, or turkey being sold as chicken, there would still be a huge outcry, but it might be a little less indignant. The mis-labeling or lack of labeling is because the horse meat is less desirable than beef. It would not sell as well if it were labeled as such. So neglecting to mention that it is horse meat is an underhanded way to get more for a product.

Why wouldn't it sell as well? That is largely cultural.

Raising a horse specifically for meat result in a high quality cut. Someone's broken-legged saddle horse - like an old dairy cow who is no longer productive - is a low-grade cull meat. Makes me wonder if the horse that they are selling is cull or high-quality. 

Horses are still raised specifically for meat in some countries. There are breeds of horse that put on weight very feed-effectively and those are meat breeds. 

Here is a web site with some (slightly poorly-translated) information about raising horses for meat: http://www.pferd-und-fleisch.de/Horsemeat/livestock.htm

http://www.pferd-und-fleisch.de/Horsemeat/links.htm#rassen

I would never want to eat horse meat from a source I didn't know and trust, due to all of the not-safe-for-human-consumption drugs that are routinely given to horses that are ridden and driven. For simplicity's sake, let's call those "pet" horses, versus "meat" horses. 

I don't know what policies European countries have in place to keep horses slaughtered for human consumption untainted. I did read something about microchips. Perhaps the horse that has been slipped into the food chain over there is safe to eat, food-grade horse. It's still wrong not to label meat accurately according to species.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I'd love to see horse meat used in dog food. It would be a novel protein for dogs with allergies to the common meats used in their food, and it would provide a market for unwanted horses.

But I'd be less than happy if I thought I was feeding my dogs lamb-based dog food and then found out that it was horse-based, just because of the fraud involved in mislabeling the food. If my dogs had a reaction to it, I'd think they were allergic to lamb - not knowing that it was the horse they were reacting to. It's a disclosure issue IMO.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Horseyrider said:


> I agree with SFM in KY. The common response I hear is "But you wouldn't eat your dog!" _Of course_ I wouldn't eat my dog. But I see no reason to deprive those who enjoy dog to eat them.
> 
> I've known some really wonderful dairy cows with beautiful hearts and minds, but that hasn't kept me from eating beef. I think the Indians did it best. Animals were harvested wild while healthy, and were sacrificed with reverence and little or no waste.


You might want to do some more reading. In the eastern woodlands, the First Nations used to set large forest fires just to shoot the big game animals fleeing from it & on the plains they used to stampede whole herds over cliffs or buffalo jumps. A lot of waste and not much reverence in both cases.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I don't like the idea of labeling fraud, That is wrong for a lot of reasons. If some else wants to eat horse meat, I don't care but I won't. We feed it to the dogs when I was a kid- Hill's canned horsemeat- and it stinks.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

I have no problem with horse meat and I am a horse owner. The only issue being the drugs that are given to horses. I think part of the reason for the outrage is the fact that they weren't honest about what the were selling people.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

Spent several thousand miles straddled in the middle of a horse. I guess it is tough to eat the one who carried me through all sorts of things, worked hard, rain and shine and never complained. I have eaten horse but would not want to eat it on a regular basis. It just goes against my grain. I think they should be a food source......just not my food source.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

This mix up makes me wonder if these things were produced in Mexico (or somewhere else it's legal) or made here from imported food supplies.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

Pops2 said:


> You might want to do some more reading. In the eastern woodlands, the First Nations used to set large forest fires just to shoot the big game animals fleeing from it & on the plains they used to stampede whole herds over cliffs or buffalo jumps. A lot of waste and not much reverence in both cases.



Good for you! Most people have bought into the "noble red man" myth and refuse to even consider that they were just as wasteful and any other group, some more, some less.



I don;t have any issue with eating horse, rabbit, lamb, muskrat, dog, cat, Spotted Owl or Bald Eagle. I draw the line at humans though. I'll take plink slime over soylent green any day!


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I wouldn't want to find out I ate it after I did, KWIM? I have no issue with anyone eating it, just not my cup of tea.


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## wannabechef (Nov 20, 2012)

The problem is not the horse meat, it's selling it as beef that's the problem.


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## Fetherhd (Aug 16, 2012)

once an animal is dead...it is meat. It is a crying shame to bury 1000 pounds of meat in the ground because people cannot make this distinction. Dead is Dead...whether you be a cow, horse, goat or rabbit. I find it much more respectful to eat the horse rather than to waste it. OH and I am a horse owner...love my horses...still...Dead is Dead. I can guarantee that once an animal dies...IT does not care what you do with its carcass. I also believe that any animals death should be brought about in a caring and humane way this is one of the reasons that I raise my own meat.


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## loli (Aug 14, 2011)

I would not want to eat my horses. That being said, I also believe that we should not tell people what they can or cannot eat. Some cultures think we are vile for eating beef or pork. And dog is on the menu for a lot of 3rd world countries. I agree with the others that have a problem with mislabeling meat products. I do know that a lot of broken legged starved horses end up in fertilizer plants and not the killers. Years ago I worked for a guy that provided horses for girl scout camps and for kill buyers, they were turned out in huge fields and fed out like cattle, most were registered and he kept them for about 60 days before shipping them when they got an order. The packing house he supplied would actually call him and tell him how many they were wanting and when the truck would be coming. He kept about 200 head all the time and this was in central Indiana


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

bluemoonluck said:


> I'd love to see horse meat used in dog food. It would be a novel protein for dogs with allergies to the common meats used in their food, and it would provide a market for unwanted horses.
> 
> .


Some years back, I drove past the Alpo plant around here and saw horses grazing in front of it. I checked the labels, and distinctly listed was horse meat. Did they stop doing this?


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

beccachow said:


> Some years back, I drove past the Alpo plant around here and saw horses grazing in front of it. I checked the labels, and distinctly listed was horse meat. *Did they stop doing this?*


Not that I know of. Horses still can be processed for "Pet Foods", and also fed to the Big Cats at Zoos. Cause the ban has been lifted if that even had a effect of processing horses for Pet Use.
The only thing that stopped in the US was USDA inspected for Human Consumption. Unless something else was added by the so call do gooders of the PETA folks. 
But then in 2011 the Ban on Horses being processed for human use was lifted, just that no USDA approved plants have started up yet.
Some are getting ready, not sure if they have started yet or not.
Heck there are still around 15K being used yet for the Premarin use. THAT has been cut WAY back but not out completely.


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

America and sometimes other countries, just love to make everything a "pet" where nothing is allowed to eat it. 
I eat rabbit, pot belly pig and if someone handed me a horseburger, I would eat that. I think I couldn't eat dogs, to me, they are my left hand, they have a partnership with us. Cats, they suck, I'd eat one..


But totally a cultural thing.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

secuono said:


> . Cats, they suck, i'd eat one..
> 
> 
> .


lol!!!


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## Farmer2B (Oct 20, 2011)

During the war there were efforts to endorse horse meat in place of cow. As we all can see, they didn't catch on for long. This was around when hamburger was becoming accepted.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

I read somewhere a few years ago that horse meat is no longer used as an ingredient in dog food due to consumer sentiment. Americans, as a consumer group, were no longer okay with feeding Mr. Ed to Fido.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Farmer2B said:


> During the war there were efforts to endorse horse meat in place of cow. As we all can see, they didn't catch on for long. This was around when hamburger was becoming accepted.


With greater cultural diversity now than during the war, there may be a lot more people in the US open to eating horse meat.


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## loli (Aug 14, 2011)

I had thought that it was fed to the troops in WWI and WW2? I could be wrong but I am sure that is what my grandfather told me they were fed sometime in Europe during the WW2


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

jennigrey said:


> I read somewhere a few years ago that horse meat is no longer used as an ingredient in dog food due to consumer sentiment. Americans, as a consumer group, were no longer okay with feeding Mr. Ed to Fido.


 I would say that if the dog or cat food can says on the label contains "Meat By-Products"
And does not list the kinds of meat used, then there is a chance of horse meat in it even if such a ban is on because of the peta folks that is one way to get around saying for sure just what is in the can of pet food. So it sure can have horse meat added to it.
But if the can says Chicken. And that is only what is listed then that can of food does not contain Meat By Products, with no chance of horse meat or other kinds of meat being in it.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Farmer2B said:


> During the war there were efforts to endorse horse meat in place of cow. As we all can see, they didn't catch on for long. This was around when hamburger was becoming accepted.


Horse was common in butcher shops until after WWII. It was the commonly eaten by poorer people & used for dog food. It was the general affluence after the war that took it off most people's tables.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

loli said:


> I had thought that it was fed to the troops in WWI and WW2? I could be wrong but I am sure that is what my grandfather told me they were fed sometime in Europe during the WW2


WWI ran on horse power and a lot of horses were killed or injured. You bet they ate horse meat. In WWII the German Army ran on horse power also (ironic considering that when people think of the Wehrmacht in WWII as the first fully mechanized Army). I'm sure they also ate horse. 

Wars have been waged across Europe for thousands of years and they always left dead horses in their wake. These battles left a hungry population in their wakes. I'll guarantee you that meat didn't go to waste.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

And as late as The Gulf War American forces confiscated the horses as in that part of the world horses are still being used as transportation and as fighting War Horses. I don't know many were Arabian horses but I am sure a lot of them were. Now I am sure they did not eat them. LOL


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## Treewhisper (Nov 24, 2010)

thanks for all the replies, it pretty much confirmed what i was thinking. My grandparents in Italy ate horsemeat and during WWII they definitely ate it without question


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## boerboy (Oct 7, 2012)

I think it is cultural and emotional 
In many countries people don't eat dogs cats and horses. Because there is a bondage between those animals and people. In case of dog and cat it is kind of a parent child bond. In case of horse I think there is some sense of royal ness and companionship around it.

We are hypocrites and that is part of what makes us human


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## airwolftruker (Jul 15, 2011)

levi1739 said:


> My wife recently found an old grocery list of her mothers. "Horse meat" was on the list but the now 95 year old grandmother doesn't remember it. Evidently it was available in the late 40's/early 50's. I don't care if people eat it or not myself.
> 
> Have fun, be safe
> 
> Jack


Yes!
My mom was a kid in the 40's and 50's and she said her dad would go buy horse or jack meat at the butcher shop.
my grand parents were poor thats all they could afford.
Also she remembers feeding chicken poop to cows.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

all the free or dirt cheep horses offerd on Craigslist would sure fill a freezer fast even if you only fed them to your dogs it would be cheep dog food if you did it your self, and if the animal was not exposed to drugs then you can eat it too, alot of the animals or so cheep if they are not free they are sure cheeper than a side of beef, better end up humainly in your freezer than passed around untill something bad happens that causes more suffering


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I don't think I'd want to offer meat from a horse that had taken bute to my dog either. Or meat from an animal that was chemically euthanized. The latter you'd have some control over, bute and other drugs that the horse had been given, not so much.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

USDA May Approve Horse Slaughter Plant
By: Stephanie Strom, New York Times
CNBC.com
March 1, 2013


The United States Department of Agriculture is likely to approve a horse slaughtering plant in New Mexico in the next two months, which would allow equine meat suitable for human consumption to be produced in the United States for the first time since 2007.

The plant, in Roswell, N.M., is owned by Valley Meat Company, which sued the U.S.D.A. and its Food Safety and Inspection Service last fall over the lack of inspection services for horses going to slaughter. Horse meat cannot be processed for human consumption in the United States without inspection by the U.S.D.A., so horses destined for that purpose have been shipped to places like Mexico and Canada for slaughter.

Justin DeJong, a spokesman for the agriculture department, said that "several" companies had asked the agency to re-establish inspection of horses for slaughter. "These companies must still complete necessary technical requirements and the F.S.I.S. must complete its inspector training," he wrote in an e-mail referring to the food inspection service.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

airwolftruker said:


> Yes!
> My mom was a kid in the 40's and 50's and she said her dad would go buy horse or jack meat at the butcher shop.
> my grand parents were poor thats all they could afford.
> Also she remembers feeding chicken poop to cows.


Plus there was a World War that limited availability of many things.


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## KIT.S (Oct 8, 2008)

Is there a medical test for the presence of Bute? I've also thought of utilizing free horses, of which there are an abundance locally, and sort of assume that if folks can't afford to feed them, they also aren't dosing them with meds. But that's an assumption I don't really want to rely on when feeding my family. I've wondered about the kill-buyers at auction, too. How much true information do you suppose comes with an animal sold that way?
We've had horse meat in other countries, and my mom (91 yrs) remembers eating it half-a-century ago.
I've got some very good sausage recipes....
Kit


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## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

Most of the horses around here are backyard horses that aren't likely to get dewormed, much less bute. The only horses in this area that get bute are the performance horses, and they are a minority of the horse population.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

GrannyCarol said:


> I don't think I'd want to offer meat from a horse that had taken bute to my dog either. Or meat from an animal that was chemically euthanized. The latter you'd have some control over, bute and other drugs that the horse had been given, not so much.


You could always worm a free horse feed it until the wormer and other undesirable things clear its body. If you put the horse down with a bullet you don't have to worry about chemical agents.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Bute withdrawal is like 6 months and how do you know if it was given anything before you got it? Six months is a long time to feed a cheap horse for butcher and, if it is in pain and needs bute, I wouldn't want it to continue to suffer. Just some things to think about. Not like I'm going to butcher a horse anyway.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

GrannyCarol said:


> Bute withdrawal is like 6 months and how do you know if it was given anything before you got it? Six months is a long time to feed a cheap horse for butcher and, if it is in pain and needs bute, I wouldn't want it to continue to suffer. Just some things to think about. Not like I'm going to butcher a horse anyway.


Would you buy beef or pork off a farm? Same applies.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Well, I buy my beef from a rancher friend, I know what it's eaten for six months. I have to admit I don't have a local source for port yet and I'm pretty sure I don't want to know what the chicken I'm having for dinner tonight ate. However, for commercially butchered meat, isn't there laws as to what it's had given to it? We are talking about getting a free or cheap horse off of CL from a private party... no idea if they tell the truth about how its cared for. 

And... ok, I'll definitely give you the point, because we don't know how well the beef/pork/chicken producers follow the laws or care for their stock either.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Back in the 60's we had a local butcher who would process a steer for us when we had one. We had a bad drought one year and way too many horses. My mom jokingly told him she was going to send him a horse to do. He got pretty excited, said that horse meat smelled bad and he wouldn't do it. She thought it was pretty funny since she remembered horsemeat from before the WWII.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I found this link quite awhile ago: http://origin.library.constantcontac...ans+letter.pdf

"Reports by Dr. Thomas Tobin and associates of the Maxwell H. Gluck Equine Research Center
have shown that the half-life of phenylbutazone in the horse is 7.22 hours. These researchers have
demonstrated that 90% of a dose will be eliminated in 24 hours. At 48 hours post administration the
level of phenylbutazone in the blood was less than 0.4% of the initial dose and at 72 hours it was 0.02%."


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