# Age of Doelings at First Breeding?



## BlsdMama (Dec 28, 2008)

I'm just wondering as they look so LITTLE.

We have three we want to breed this year - 2 alpine/la mancha doelings out of an amazing milker, and one saanen/togg mix that we're really excited about. 

They were born in early February. I'd prefer to have them kid in late March which would mean a November breeding. Is 9-10 months old sufficient? I know people say it's fine, but really, they look tiny!


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

I believe it is recommended to have them about 80lb before breeding them. Feeding them a good quality alfalfa and grain will help them grow to the proper size before breeding time.


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## Idahoe (Feb 4, 2006)

Yep, I've heard it is their weight that you need to consider, as long as they are at least seven/eight months old.

I have a Nubian doeling I'd like to breed this fall with her mom and auntie . . . but she was born the first week of April. I'm going to bottle feed her for a couple more months and see how she does, but it won't break my heart if she waits, I can breed her anytime being Nubian. The swiss breeds are seasonal. More experienced folks will chime in.

As long as they've not been sick (coccidia or something to cause malabsorption) and get regular alfalfa, they ought to be ready by late fall, I'd think  Just get a weight measuring tape and learn to use it, you'll be good to go


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Feb kids should be big enough to breed by November, they should be 80+# by then. 

Have you been giving them grain? Treating them for cocci? They shoudl be sufficiently large by then. 

Of course, they won't be full grown when they freshen, but if you feed them well while pregnant and after freshening, they will continue to grow. In fact, mine were never fully done growing and maturing until age 3-4. 

This is going to sound awful but I'll say it anyway: in my experience, if the doe is big enough to support the bucks weight for the time it take him to breed her, she is big enough, and if adequately fed, will grow out nicely. I do think it is ideal to feed and house the bred doelings separately from the older does, so that they can grow out to their full potential. Not in a separate barn, just a pen of their own, and it doesn't even have to be 24/7 separate, but the more access they have to eating hay free choice, the better they will do. When the old biddies compete and drive them away from the hay, that isn't free access.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Adding to the above post, if you don't have a place to put young bred does, where they have access to alfalfa of some form 24/7 and a good grain mix twice a day, I would not breed them until late winter. To many folks do as we do and don't do as we say, my kids will be bred to kid at 12 months old, most are born in March and we have 2 already 45 pounds, they will easily freshen 125+. But my kids got alot of milk and are on full grain and alfalfa and will continue with this until 100 days pregnant, at which time I will move the meat goat pellet they recieve to milkstand grain (very slowly) until they are eating twice a day like they will on the milkstand.

So it's not just breed them young...it's breed them young with excellent management. I would much rather see new folks breeding their does at 100 pounds, than breeding a doeling who is squeaking by at miniumum weights of 10 pounds a month. Any stall at all while bred and you will have an underwieght doe kidding. 

Also what size kids does your buck throw? In some breeds there are bucks that it's just plain dangerous to put a young doe under him, make sure you bo-se and worm before breeding so the doe has every chance she has to at least twining if not tripleting so the kids are small. Vicki


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

Yes, I agree with Vicki (Chamoisee here Vicki!): If you are not going to adequately feed the bred doelings, if they will just be thrown in with the older does and given grass hay, pasture, no grain until they kid, then do NOT breed them. 

My perspective was that it was well worth the extra trouble and feed to save a year's time in keeping a goat with a potentially disastrous udder. Also, breeding them young meant I could more of the doelings than if I had kept them as dry yearlings. Lastly, that extra year per doe adds up over generations and gives you a more rapid rate of improvement in a breeding program. 

But, a lot of these factors won't matter much to the average homesteader with goats. If you only have 2 doelings per year, keeping them for 2 years before an udder is seen isn't a big deal, not like it would be if you have 4-10 doelings from that year to freshen. If you aren't showing and working to improve conformation, it won't be as much of a financial blow to freshen those 8 doelings at two years old and find that each and every one has a saggy, poorly attached udder. If a breeding program isn't beign followed, rate of improvement is meaningless. Etc etc....

The bottom line is that if you freshen them to kid as yearlings, they need to be fed well. I'll never forget the clueless guy who called me wanting to know why his doe's production had fallen a month or two after being bred back. She had been bred to kid as a *small* yearling, milked all summer and raised her kid on grass hay and IIRC ground barley for grain, and then rebred in the fall as soon as she came into heat and was still being milked! The poor thing was pregnant, milking, and growing all at the same time on substandard feed. :flame:

And that reminds me...I typically would not breed a milking yearling back right away either, but would wait until later in the fall to give her a little extra time to grow and develop before being pregnant yet again.


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## BlsdMama (Dec 28, 2008)

We do feed them alfalfa but I thought grain was NOT for doelings. 

So, okay, we'll build them a trough this weekend and get them grain.
How much grain should I be feeding these little girls? 

Second, we don't have a buck. I'll be completely honest in that we've really considered breeding them to a Nigerian Dwarf long term. I'd love to have mini does. BUT, not yet. What I'd like to do is find a Saanen buck for the Togg mix and a LaMancha buck for the twins. While I love (LOVE) the looks of Latte (togg mix) I NEED an awesome buck for my twins. They aren't anything fancy or from great lines, but they are very nice looking and MORE than that, they came from an incredible milker. I parted with her because she was difficult (wild) for me to milk. I hear she and the new owner get along just fine, but the doe hated me. That said, these little doelings have incredible milking potential and I'm not willing to cut it short to breed them to a Nigie. I'd rather wait six months for the breeding than risk losing one of them to be honest. 

Any suggestions/help is greatly appreciated. Bo-Se, worming, alfalfa... All of that is understood. The grain I did NOT know about. So do you feed them a mix? When we had does in milk we were feeding them a blend of grain, goat pellets, and sunflower seeds.


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## chamoisee (May 15, 2005)

I fed mine the lamb starter pellets and small amount of the same dairy pellets I fed to my milkers. For th epellets, I clipped them up to a short lead and fed them in the milking parlor, and when they were tall enough, fed them on the stands. It gets them used to being handled so you don't have a rodeo when they freshen! :cowboy:

I would honestly consider buying a nice LaMancha buck and using him on your whole herd. The Togg mix is already crossbred, and you can upgrade to Purebred LaMancha over time, which you cannot do with any other breed.


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## Lada (Jun 7, 2008)

I am feeding my babies meat goat pellets, and will continue that until it's time to switch them over to the grain I feed the milkers. It's fair season so you shouldn't have any problem finding a meat goat feed and a bonus is that most of the time this type of feed will have your cocci med in it too. They get about a pound a day. This amount seems good for us right now, when I was feeding them more than that, they would leave it.


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