# sourdough starter swap



## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Hi all,
Karen has given the nod of approval for setting up this type of exchange. I thought a few ground rules would help facilitate the process and no doubt others will be able to add some suggestions for improvements.

Sourdough starters have unique flavors and leavening powers which differ dramatically from one region (and starter) to another. I would like to see this be a means of allowing folks to try each others starters in that search for the 'perfect' match to our individual tastes. It will also be a way to get those who have never cared for and kept a starter a chance to try something that has a proven track record.

To start with I think it is important to provide a brief history of the starter. For instance, I am not interested in any starter that was created using 'beer' yeast and sugar....to me that isn't sourdough but others may be interessted in giving it a try...so history and characteristics are important.

Second, I think we should keep it as simple as possible. If someone has a starter they are willing to share with others, post the details then individuals may contact that person, via pm, to make exchange arrangements. The cost of shipping a starter should not exceed $5.00 and may be cheaper if the starter is dried prior to shipping. Personally I favor shipping a drier, lasagna noodle consistency, starter over a countertop dried starter. It may also be shipped in a stiff ball of dough.

Ok I'll start:

I have two starters I use for making different breads. One is a somewhat traditional sourdough starter which is cultivated on all purpose flour, bleached or unbleached is fine. I and my friends have been using this starter for many years. It has a nice flavor with a mildly sour flavor. I like it for making making pizza crusts and waffles although it makes a very fine loaf of bread as well.

My second starter is a whole wheat starter that was obtained a few years ago from an artesanal bakery over on the coast. It has a very nice meld of nutty and sour flavors and leavens 100% whole wheat and varying mixtures quite well. It is important to use a good quality flour with ths starter. Too coarse of a grind will produce less than desirable results. but can be overcome by using a bit of all purpose in the recipe.

If anyone is interested in giving these a try or trading for their starter send me a pm and we can start the process.

The experienced and the novice are encouraged to try this wonderful tradition of bread baking....once you get over a few hurdles you'll never go back to 'standard yeast' breads.....well almost never!


I encourage everyone to take a look at this link for some tips...and hopefully others will share their resources as well....

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=27634


Get the oven and butter ready!!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Bob I have a question about how you dry your starter? Can you tell us how you do it?


I have a starter that is a more traditional starter. It is cultivated on unbleached all purpose flour. I got this starter from Ed Wood's web site. I use it for waffles all the time. I have used it for pizza crust. I haven't experimented much with it :shrug:


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## jersey girl (Nov 21, 2005)

I would like to get some starters, but being new to sourdough, I don't have much to share. I ordered that free Oregon trail starter that someone here gave the website for. I have just got it and am starting it now. I do not have any other starter. 
I did read that you can paint some active starter on a piece of wax paper, let it dry and then crumble up to keep a starter. I found this out after I lost my last starter. It was from a bakery in Columbus Ohio. I can get more of that starter if anyone wants it, but I don't know much about it. 
I would like to learn a lot more about sourdough. Bob, maybe you can offer more advice. 
Joanie


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Bob, got my starter, thanks. That link to the sourdough you gave me in the PM isn't working. Now, what do I do with this stuff??? LOL!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

jersey girl said:


> I would like to get some starters, but being new to sourdough, I don't have much to share. I ordered that free Oregon trail starter that someone here gave the website for. I have just got it and am starting it now. I do not have any other starter.
> I did read that you can paint some active starter on a piece of wax paper, let it dry and then crumble up to keep a starter. I found this out after I lost my last starter. It was from a bakery in Columbus Ohio. I can get more of that starter if anyone wants it, but I don't know much about it.
> I would like to learn a lot more about sourdough. Bob, maybe you can offer more advice.
> Joanie


Joanie,I got mine going,its a good active starter.

BooBoo


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Bob,
Try the link in the first post in this thread...I just checked it and it is working.

What you want to do is give the starter something to eat...AP for the SF starter and WW for the whole wheat starter......dissolve the dough I sent you in some water...sourdough yeast is a bit more sensitive to heat than 'bakers (beer) yeast' so be careful with the temp.....before using the starter will need to get revved up...to do this feed the starter 1/2 cup water + 1/2 cup flour every six hours or so.......if your house is cold a proofing box (cooler with a 15 watt bulb in it) works great...about 85F is perfect for the yeast and bacteria to grow correctly.....

Once the starter is revved up...you'll know by the activity.....you can follow the directions on that link....briefly, make a sponge with the starter.....add about 1 cup of starter and about 2 cups of flour and water enough to make a very thick paste.....beat this with a spoon to help with gluten formation and let alone to rise...sourdough if in cooler temps than 85 F can take awhile to rise so patience is needed....once it has about doubled add some more flour to make a sticky dough and turn out on a well floured board....knead for 10 minutes then place into a oiled bowl to rest for 30 minutes.....after thirty minutes spread the dough out and add the salt....knead again for 10 minutes.....put into oiled bowl, cover, and let rise for a couple hours at 85F...longer if its cooler....until it almosts doubles or a finger dimples the dough easily......turn out onto a floured board and shape into loaves....or as I do place the loaves into a basket lined with linen or a oiled bowl, cover and place into the refrigerator for 8-24 hours....preheat oven to 400-450F, place a bowl of water into the bottom of the oven......take the loaves out of the basket or bowl....make your slashes...place into oven...to get that nice chewy crust you'll need to spray the walls of the oven with a bit of water right after you put the bread in the oven and again in 5 minutes....bake until done...about 40-50 minutes...let cool long enough to retrieve butter from fridge then consume.....the oven spring should give you all the rise needed for a great loaf.....once I figure out how to post a pic I'll post some of my bread pics......


Most importantly don't try to use the starter unless it is revved up....and put some starter into a jar with a loose lid into the fridge for later use.....use or feed at least monthly to maintain the culture....maybe split the cultures into two jars......just in case!


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

jerseygirl,
You only need a desire to get started in sourdough baking to ask for some starter(s)......

Marchwind,
You can make a pancake-like batter out of an active culture then spread some very thin on wax paper or foil and let dry in a warm place...the quicker the better to prevent contamination but don't use excessive heat.........


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Dont spray the oven insides with water if the lightbulb is on,ask me how I know.Maybe even if the lightbulb is off and hot,they explode.Violently.

BooBoo


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

VERY good point BooBoo!!!


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

I'm completely dumb about sourdough starter, i'd love to try it--but different types of starter in confusing. isnt there just a starter thats good in bread, rolls, and pizza crust? you'd think at almost 70 years, i'd know such things, i just usually bake bread the old fashioned way, but i do love sourdough.


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## jersey girl (Nov 21, 2005)

Hey BooBoo, thanks for the laugh about the oven light. I can see that happening at my house. It's nice to know that someone else has some of the same problems as me.
Joanie


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

ceresone,
most starters can be used in a variety of ways....the only limiting factor is your personal tastes and preferences....for us we like the AP sourdough starter for pizza crusts and to make a traditional SF sourdough bread.......however, we prefer the taste of our whole wheat starter for making bread and rolls.....both will make a fine loaf of bread but the flavors differ.......pm me your address and I'll send you a bit of my starters if you want...


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

ceresone, don't feel bad; I'm completely dumb also when it comes to sourdough baking. All my years of cooking and baking, and I've never tried it. I don't even know why. 

Bob, if you don't mind sharing your starters with a complete novice (aka sourdough idiot...LOL) I'd love to give it a try.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Karen said:


> ceresone, don't feel bad; I'm completely dumb also when it comes to sourdough baking. All my years of cooking and baking, and I've never tried it. I don't even know why.
> 
> Bob, if you don't mind sharing your starters with a complete novice (aka sourdough idiot...LOL) I'd love to give it a try.



Send me a pm with your address and I'll send it (them) off with the rest this week.

I am waking up both starters tonight to make enough to send to all who have requested one or both of the starters....and I have a bunch of dough rising to bake bread first thing tomorrow morning..... 

A good place to start gaining experience with sourdough cultures is making waffles.......get the starter out of the fridge the night before and feed it......use it in the morning....the flavor will encourage you to try it in more baked goods....


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Bobk, did you get my email? I'm so excited, i've wanted to make sourdough for years, and i've been a little afraid i'd catch (on a farm) a non-friendly yeast--and i really wouldnt know one from another--


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## MOgal (Jul 27, 2002)

Don't mean to be rude or to steal your post, Bob, but never use aluminum--foil or containers--in contact with sourdough. The reaction of acid on the aluminum makes a toxic mix. Use only stainless steel, glass or intact enamel as containers. I bake my sourdough breads in well greased steel French bread pans or on Teflon sheets (jury's still out there too). A sidebar--the oldtimers used a small amount of the hootch that separates to the top to polish the brass on their guns and such then discarded that liquid remaining. It too would be toxic from the contact with the brass. 

I have an Excalibur dehydrator and when I want to send sourdough starter, I make a very thick, active starter, spread it on plastic sheets and dry in the dehydrator at the lowest temperature setting possible, about 85o. The starter will continue to work until it's completely dry as evidenced by the holes made by the CO2 bubbles the yeast produces. When it's crackled like silt in the bottom of a dried up mud puddle, I crush it to powder and seal 2 teaspoons of the powder in small packets with a vacuum sealer.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

To all who requested starter(s) from me....I just got back from a bit of a whirl-wind tour of the Sierra's and the coast with my SIL (who is suffering from metastatic breast cancer) and wanted to let everyone know I haven't forgotten them. I will mail all current requests on monday morning...yes, ceresone I got your email...my apologies for not acknowledging it sooner......

Great advice MOgal!!


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## MOgal (Jul 27, 2002)

After I made my comment about using stainless, glass or intact enamel....I made sourdough pancakes for breakfast and realized plastic is a great container. I use a "Glad" container in because it fits the shelf in the frig door. My starter popped the top from a Tupperware container so please never use anything that is tightly sealed like a glass jar with a screw on lid. When the pressure builds up, I've had to pierce the lid to get it off. What a mess! Experience is such a good teacher!

So sorry to hear about your SIL, Bob. Lost a friend that way a few years back. Ya'll have my prayers.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

MOgal, thanks for the thoughts. 

I often use a large (empty of course) yogurt container to hold my cultures.


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## prairiebird (Sep 26, 2006)

Someone gave me a starter over a year ago. It's still in the fridge. I never got around to trying it out. Can I still use it? It's just in a plastic container. Will it taste like an old refridgerator?

Thanx so much,
robin


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## MOgal (Jul 27, 2002)

Robin, my guess is that it's no longer viable. Before you throw it out, add about 1/4 cup each declorinated water and AP flour, mix well and set it on your counter or on top of your refrigerator where it will get warm and hopefully grow. If it is a funny color, moldy or doesn't grow after 24-36 hours, it's probably dead. If it starts to bubble and smell yeasty, you are in business. My starter survives by benign neglect but the longest it's survived without being used/fed is about 4 months. This is the reason I keep a dried starter in the freezer all the time! 

Bob hasn't mentioned declorinated water but it's something that has affected my sourdough baking. We are on a private well now but when we were on the public water system, I'd either set an open container of water on the counter overnight for the clorine to escape or bring enough water to a boil and allow it to cool before adding it to my sourdough. The chlorine can inhibit the growth of the sourdough yeasts.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Hi all,
I have all the starters ready to mail on my way to work in a few minutes. Jocelyn (Ed), Alice, karen, Carol, Joanie, and Scott are all on the list. Each package contains a chunk of dough from each starter; whole wheat and traditional SF sourdough. When you get the starter you should 'dissolve the dough in a bit of water and add some flour to feed the starter. Feed every six hours or so until the starter is really bubbling along. Once you get to this point the starter is ready to use and don't forget to take some and save it in the fridge.

happy baking!

Bob


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Question:since the sourdough starter is active, does the coolness of the refrigerator slow the process a lot? i'm assuming it does, so how often do i feed it--and--with warm water and flour? do i let it sit at room temp's for awhile after i feed it?
I'm sorry, I feel like a complete novice in breadbaking, after 65 years--but i AM when it comes to sourdough


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Generally I feed mine only when I use it and sometimes that can be only every couple of weeks or once a month. I'll feed it with water and flour and let it sit on the counter over night. In the morning I'll stir it up good and put it into the fridge.

Personally I haven't had much luck making bread, yet! It takes a lot of time to prepare and I have been so busy over the summer. Waffles are easy and good so are pancakes. We put chocolate chips in ours :baby04:


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

When you get and/or use your starter you start out by feeding it.....a 1/2 cup flour and 1/2 cup water every few hours will get the starter woken up and ready to work. If you have been using the starter on a frequent basis you only need to take it out of the fridge the night before you want to start your bread making. Be very careful with warm water....it is easy to kill the sourdough yeasts....keep it about 80-85 F. If you don't use your starter often and forget to feed it for a couple of months you may need to wash the starter....washing the starter is making a dilute solution of the starter which negates the acidity that builds up from the bacteria over time.

Marchwind, sourdough baking does take a bit of planning but it is, for the most part, a hands off experience. I take my starter out in the evening and feed it....in the morning I add some more flour and a bit more water and off to work I go.....after work I make up hte final dough and do all the kneading. After it rises once I carefully shape it into loaves and into the fridge it goes......next day, whenever I have a chance, I preheat the oven, take the loaves out of the fridge, slash, and into the oven they go......some folks like to let their loaves sit out for an hour before they go into the fridge....others take them out of the fridge an hour before baking........mine go right from the fridge into the oven......personal preference and trial and error will get you to a nice loaf of sourdough bread that you enjoy.....

The starter will need to be warm before using in bread baking....teh coolness of the fridge does retard the yeast and bacteria growth so they don't eat themselves out of house and home.......


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Some more questions here from the first time novice. When your waking up the starter, I'm assuming it sits at room temperature during this stage? Do I cover it? And if so with suran, towel, a bowl....?


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

And--read a statement on another forum (here)about sourdough deflating, both before and after baking--why??


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Karen, 
Yes, you want to wake the starter up at room temp...or someplace about 85 F for maximum yeast reproduction. cover it with any of the above. I use either a crock with a lid or a wide-mouth canning jar with the lid loosely screwed on.....or a large yogurt container with the lid snapped almost all the way on. When I am waking up a starter I mix enough flour and water to make a pancake-like batter...this prevents the dough from crawling out of the container and over the counter but also provides the yeast with plenty to eat. Additions every six hours or so will get the starter revved up.....but it does help to have fairly clean sides on the container your culturing in....this helps you identify when the starter has risen and you missed it in your absence.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

This morning's loaves.....


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## dennisjp (Mar 3, 2006)

I think this is a wonderful idea for us that knows nothing about baking bread, but remembers what thier mothers used to taste like. 
I am going to stay on this thread untill I learn how to make some good sour dough bread bread. 
Thanks
Dennis


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

BobK said:


> This morning's loaves.....


They look delicious, I am feeding my starter now. Question Bob, how much do you usually keep around ready to bake? I mean enough for 3 loaves and then start feeding your starter again... or what?


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Right now I am keeping two quart jars half-full of each of my starters. I do this in case of contamination gets one I still have a back-up. I am baking at least once a week and alternate between each jar of a specific starter. When I start in the evening I I empty one of the stored starters into a crock or whatever you have handy. I then add the first batch of flour knowing that my starter is really active from frequent use....if I have not been using the starter for awhile I would start the day before with frequent smaller feedings to get the culture back in shape.

In the morning I take about a1/2 cup of the culture out of the bowl or crock and put it into a clean jar along with some fresh flour and some water to make a liquid culture...pancake like in consistency. This goes into the fridge for safe keeping. then I add at least 1/3 to a half of my anticipated flour required for whatever I'm planning on baking. Mix and let stand until i get home from workl.......at this point I make the mix a bit thicker so I don't have to add too much flour in the evening when I'm making the dough. This will rise and crawl out of a container if your not careful!

Once home I mix up my final dough...for example the loaves in the pic are made from 1/2 Bob's Red Mill whole wheat flour and 1/2 Giusto's unbleached AP flour. When your starting out i would suggest making something along these lines or maybe 1/3 whole wheat.....at least until you get used to the process. I use the higher priced flour because I believe it is a better product and gives me better results.....we also co-op it so it is not that much more than standard flour......this is for whole wheat breads.....the SF starter does fine with the cheapest flour on the shelf!

So in a round-about way those three loaves started with a pint of starter the night before.......and I got that pint back in the morning.....once it gets growing the starter is just about as active and quick to reproduce as standard beer (baking) yeast. If your starter is not active it will take a long time to leaven a loaf and the results will be less than satisfying.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

I'm working on getting all this stuck in my head. You add flour to the starter until you have enough mixture to make your loaf? You don't mix it like regular bread, just a few spoons of yeast? Or sourdough, in this case. 

Oh, never mind. I'm reading it all again. I think we can do this scientific experiment. I keep thinking about the old miners keeping the starter in their coat for warmth. Yummy.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

hmmm...a miner unbathed for a month....coddling a starter.....well the first impulse is revulsion but hey I did say I am always looking for new flavors.....ack!

Consider the starter as a living entity...a pet so to speak.....a 1 1/2 cup of starter is more than enough to leaven a loaf of bread. My procedure is one of convenience.....if I was going to be home all day I might (and have) make the dough in the morning.....but most of the time I cannot afford this luxury and this method lets me get a starter revved up and begin to build the bread.......when I mix the 1/3 of the recipe or guestimated amount of flour needed for the final dough I give the mix a good spoon kneading which helps to start the production of gluten....but hey recognize this is just the way I worked out for my schedule....my friends is completely different.

He gets his starter out the night before and feeds it....in the morning he makes his bread dough and in the afternoon after it has risen forms his loaf....and into the fridge for cold fermenting....but he works at home and can afford this luxury.

The single most important thing to remember is to make sure the starter is fed and active before using....if it is not active before you make the dough it will be even less active (due to dilution) once the loaves are made.....and you won't be happy and satisfied with the process.....relax and have a good time with it!


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

I've made bread for over 60 years-like my grandmother did--but, frankly, something about using sourdough starter scares me, it sounds so complicated--not that i'm not going to start trying soon as my starter arrives, but it makes me nervous--


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## RedHeadedTricia (Jun 20, 2006)

Ok I have been reading this thread and have always wanted to make sourdough bread but unsure how to start a starter. Could someone help me with this? Is there a starter recipe or abit of starter that someone could share with me? If you need a snail mail addy,please let me know. Thanks to all your help. RedheadedTricia


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Bob, the starter came today - thank you so much!! 

I can't thank you enough for taking so much time with us to not only share your starter, but also teach us your methods. Thanks a million!


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

My starters really cooking now... bubbles bubbles everywhere... and a wonderful sweet/sour smell. ah yes, it looks like sourdough bread soon.


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## chickenmommy (Aug 24, 2004)

Been lurking on this forum for a while now and it got my sourdough juices running again. Haven't made any in twenty+ years. Since I started wallpapering, I guess. Anyway, living in humid Fla is the perfect place for starter to live! Got some started about a week ago and made waffles this am. Thanks for the reminder about how good it is. The best waffles we've had in years. Biscuits are next followed by bread as soon as I get the time!
It sure is worth the time and effort!


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

RedHeadedTricia said:


> Ok I have been reading this thread and have always wanted to make sourdough bread but unsure how to start a starter. Could someone help me with this? Is there a starter recipe or a bit of starter that someone could share with me? If you need a snail mail addy,please let me know. Thanks to all your help. RedheadedTricia


You can look at my descriptions of my starters in the first pos. If your interested inone or both of them send me a pm with your address and I will mail you some early next week.

ZYG...sounds like it is time to start the bread making!


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

got my starters just fine , Bob, i'll mail you at least the postage, but i think you should charge for the starter--AND the information! the SF is starting to work, the WW dosent seem quite right yet, but i realize its a heavier flour. now---why do you put it back in the ref. after making a loaf--i did read that, didnt i?--and--you dont use pans to bake it in because of the metal?-looks as if i put it right on the rack, it would be a mess.i'm not sure i read either of these right.--cookie sheet covered with parchment, maybe? i really think i'm making a big chore out of a simple process-- but--i'm so looking forward to this--got up at 3 am to feed my pets--lol


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

You can bake sourdough just fine in a loaf or any other pan you happen to have that is ovenproof. You can also just let the loaves rise in the pans and bake without cold-fermenting.....it is just bread leavened with a sourdough culture.....

I like the cold fermenting of my loaves (after the first rise of the completed dough)because it helps firm up the softer doughs I have been working with so they hold their shape in the oven...The oven spring gives you plenty of rise after cold-fermenting....I am working on learning how to make various pan-free bread loaves....but go ahead and use your pans...it may save some frustration as you get started....

If your going to use your starter frequently you can keep it on the counter but you will have to feed it at least daily...this will keep the sourdough culture as being dominant and help prevent contamination. I, and most other, sourdough bakers store the starter in the fridge to slow things down since we don't use them on a daily basis.


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## jersey girl (Nov 21, 2005)

Bob, a quick question for you. What kind of flour do you feed the starters with? I got mine yesterday, thank you very much.
Joanie


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

I feed the SF starter the cheapest unbleached white flour I can find.....the whole wheat starter is fed (in my home) a better grade of WW flour ....like Bob's Red Mill or my favorite is Giusto's ww high gluten flour.....I'm sure there are a number of suitable candidates on your grocers shelf...

The ww starter will leaven mixtures of flour very well but I keep the culture fed solely on ww flour...no white allowed!1


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

We got the starter yesterday, thanks so much.

Now, how do we use it to make waffles for Sunday breakfast?


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## RedTartan (May 2, 2006)

This is fascinating! I've just been researching sourdough. I'm going to try my own starter soon.

FYI: According to a recent study, many celiacs (people who cannot tolerate wheat) CAN eat whole wheat sourdough bread with no ill effects. It has something to do with the fermentation of the dough removing the harmful agents. There's an article about it in Wise Traditions (Summer 2006 issue.)

 RedTartan


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Ed, for waffles tomorrow start feeding your culture every few hours...and you will have to make sure that you keep it somewhere around 85 F......a little higher is OK...lower will slow things down...

Tonight make a final feeding before bed....following this recipe (the unused starter can be fed and put in the fridge if its gotten active enough):

2 cups liquid culture (this is the pancake like consistency your starter probably has)
1/2 cup whole wheat flour (add a bit more if needed)
1 cup white flour 
1/2 cup milk
2 tbs. butter
1 tbs sugar
2 eggs, seperated
1 tsp salt

in large micing bowl mix the liquid culture and flours....mix until smooth....cover lightly with plastic wrap and proof over night at room temps.....

in the morning add:
the milk butter, sugar, egg yolks, and salt with whatever flour is needed to get your favorite consistency for waffles.

preheat waffle iron

beat egg whites until soft peaks...fold into batter

make and eat waffles......repeat....repeat....burp.....


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Is it supposed to seperate? i have mine split into 4 quart jars--everytine i add to them, instead of getting yeasty--they seperate--a row of liquid, then row above it--and i beat it good with a wooden spoon--


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Reduce the frequency of your feedings and let the starter catch up and start working.....separation is OK but I think you have fed it too much and the yeast is now pretty diluted in the jars...put them in a warm place and let them get bubbly...once you get good activity start feeding again....feeding should be tempered by how active the culture is....if it doesn't start bubbling after a feeding...wait a bit until it does.....


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Our house was 64 degrees, the heater is off, nowhere warm to put the starter. I took a little styrofoam ice chest, a 25 watt bulb, an $8 dimmer switch, and got the box right at 86 degrees.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Sounds like you made a nice proofing box, Ed....your cultures will like you for that....

Mine is a 15 watt bulb in a candle holder (screwed to the bottom of an old cooler) with the lid cracked open at one end...the hinges are busted so I can slide it from side to side.....


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Ed, (and others) you will find that the culture will need less time to proof when using a proofing box...for example that waffle recipe I gave calls for proofing around 12 hours at room temp and 6 hours in a proofing box......


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## Sonshe (Jun 17, 2006)

Thanks, Bob, for the starters you sent.

I do have a question, though. How did the old-timers make their biscuits? Whenever I read anything about prospectors, it's like they come back to the house at the end of the day and make their biscuits using their starter. Got any good recipe to make light, fluffy biscuits using the starter?

Second question: My crust was too chewy for my tastes (neither did my dentures like them!) Would smearing butter on it after baking help?

Third question: I was totally amazed that starter, flour, water, and salt would make a delicious loaf of bread. Can you make "regular" type bread using starter instead of sotre-bought yeast?


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Offhand I can't remember any biscuit recipes....but I'll look in my sourdough books this evening for some.

You can brush the crust with water, milk, or an eggwash before baking and upon taking the bread out of the oven brush a bit of oil on the finished loaf...it will soften the crust and give it a nice sheen....but I don't see how you can go wrong with smearing butter on anything...

If you want to try making 'regular' bread with the sourdough starters mix up a fairly moist and soft dough......use a bread pan for proofing and you should be OK....the higher the moisture content of the dough the more holes and lighter the texture....but the bread dough will be too soft to hold any shape...thus the need for a pan of some sorts......

aren't the sourdough flavors just wonderful??!!


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## JennNY (Aug 10, 2006)

I have been using spelt flour w/my sourdough and it makes a nice taste. I absolutely LOVE making sourdough bread now, I hardly ever make "yeast" bread.
I love the website you gave Bobk on making sourdough, I read it all the time.

Jenn


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

well, old dumb me--my 4 jars are just sitting on the hearth, where temps are right, i checked--and not doing anything--'cept the whole wheat ones are seperating--no bubbles, no sour smell, just settin' and lookin' back at me--


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

ceresone....have you seen any activity since you got the starters? If no they may have gotten too hot during transit and killed the cultures.....or they may have gotten active and you missed it if you were gone....in that case they are hungry.

Try feeding one of each culture and see what happens. If they don't start up I'll send you some more....

Everyone who has made a request for starters will have them shipped on Saturday so you get them early next week without them languishing in some post office for a couple of days.


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

No, i've never seen activity in my starters, i put them in 4 jars, fed as you said, kept warm--did everything as everyone suggested--and they just sit--instead of a yeasty smell, they just smell stale-thats as close as i can explain. i fed them again this morning, still hoping-


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Hey Bob!! I've got bubbles in both of them!! Whoohoo!! 

By the way, I went and tossed away the envelope with your return address on it. Could you please PM me with your address so I can reimburse you for postage. Thanks!!


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## Step (Aug 4, 2005)

RedTartan said:


> This is fascinating! I've just been researching sourdough. I'm going to try my own starter soon.
> 
> FYI: According to a recent study, many celiacs (people who cannot tolerate wheat) CAN eat whole wheat sourdough bread with no ill effects. It has something to do with the fermentation of the dough removing the harmful agents. There's an article about it in Wise Traditions (Summer 2006 issue.)
> 
> RedTartan


Here is the published abstract of the article dating back to 2003. Copyright Â© 2004, American Society for Microbiology. All Rights Reserved. 
http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/70/2/1088

I haven't read what Wise Traditions has done to duplicate the special Lactobacilli that has shown some promise for Celiac Patients, but to generalize that the regular sourdough bread most of us make, without the correct combination of bacteria from selected grains, should be researched and discussed with a patient's doctor, because from the few posts I read on some of the Celiac Communities... it doesn't work for many of them.


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## Garnet (Sep 19, 2003)

I sent a PM a few days ago to request the starters -if you have enough and have time. Thanks.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Hey Bob, I still need your address so I can send you $$$! 

I made sourdough waffles this morning. Wow! They were great!!!


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## jersey girl (Nov 21, 2005)

A question, my San Francisco starter is doing great, but my whole wheat seems to be dead. How could one have died and not the other? Can I do anything to try to revive the WW, in case it is not totally dead?
Thanks,
Joanie


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

I was hoping to make this weeks mailings of starters today....well I am not going to get to it until monday morning.....so everyone who has requested some starter and hasn't already gotten it will have it in the mail on monday...

jerseygirl....not sure what the problem might be but I am drying some starter today and I'll ship you some more of the whole wheat starter......ceresone same for you..

about all you can do to check the starter out is to feed it and make sure it is in a warm place....along with monitoring for activity.......

karen...pm on the way...

has anyone else tried baking with the starters? Successes or failures?


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Yes, my whole wheat bit the dust--it ended up with a black scum over the top--the other is still just sitting, no activity--wonder if they did get too hot and die--i'm still pampering this one, but looks hopeless.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

give it up, ceresone, the cultures are obviously dead. I am going to dry a bunch to send off and see if the dried cultures are more successfully rescusitated than the pieces of dough I sent......that will also make it much cheaper for everyone!


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

We made waffles, they were fine but not the best ever. Maybe we needed more starter in them. Then we tried SF bread and used a combination of BobK and the link he gave for our instructions. DW accidentally made two loaves from the dough instead of one big hunk. It came out very good but they were skinny little things. Nexrt we tried WW and made a big loaf, but forgot to slash it and maybe used too much steam and the crust came out real tough. It tasted very good. We're working on it and having fun. The 85 degree hot box we made helps alot, things bubble and rise right on schedule. She wants to make English muffins, her regular flour English muffins are great but now she wants to try sourdough. We aren't sure which culture to use.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Ed could you ask your wife if she would share her english muffin recipe? If she has success with the sourdough ones I'd like that too!

Thanks


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

jersey girl and ceresone...you will need to resend your addresses to me....thanks....

all other requests were sent off this morning...


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## ceresone (Oct 7, 2005)

Hope you got my address, Bob ? and thanks, again--


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## Ann Mary (Nov 29, 2004)

About spraying the wall of the oven with water...and having the lightbulb explode....here is an alternative I read in a bread book.....when the oven is preheating put a metal jelly roll pan on the bottom rack of the oven. When you add the bread to the oven to bake put a few ice cubes into the jelly roll pan very quickly. They will melt and put the moisture into the air...without blowing up the bulb!


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

I got the addresses, ceresone & jersey girl....starters will be mailed on monday morning.....


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## Garnet (Sep 19, 2003)

Thanks Bob. The starters arrived this afternoon (Wed) and I pulled the package out of the mailbox the minute the postman left it. (I have been concerned about the starters sitting in a hot mailbox.) 

I divided the AP into two jars and added water and flour to each. They are gently bubbling. I still have to get the whole wheat flour, so I just added a little water to the WW starter. I have just gone through the thread to copy all the info. Thanks.

I will send reimbursement for postage.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Ann Mary said:


> About spraying the wall of the oven with water...and having the lightbulb explode....here is an alternative I read in a bread book.....when the oven is preheating put a metal jelly roll pan on the bottom rack of the oven. When you add the bread to the oven to bake put a few ice cubes into the jelly roll pan very quickly. They will melt and put the moisture into the air...without blowing up the bulb!


ice cubes rob the oven of heat...and it is very hard to get our ovens hot enough as it is.....a pan with a half cup of boiling water is better......no need for steam after the first half of baking is finished...excess steam on the second half of baking inhibits the crust from browning.....


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Bob I got my WW starter yesterday :kissy: It's in the fridge waiting until my day off to get it up and going. Thank yo so much, I can't wait to get it going and to give it a try.

Last weekend I made waffles with my other starter (SF) and I thought it was smelling a little funky. The waffles came out really well but I decided to wash my starter. Well :Bawling: I think my water was too hot and I killed it :shrug: 

I'll be sending you the postage for the WW batch and I was wondering if you could or would send my a batch of the SF sour dough? Let me know if you need my address again.

So I understand what I do with this lump of dough; I put it in some water to dissolve then mix in some more flour and get it working. Right?


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Hey Bob, the checks in the mail! Thanks again!


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Marchwind....I'll send you some of the SF starter with mondays mailings....and yup, get the dough dissolved and give it something to eat.....have a bit of patience but it should get up and running for you in no time...and try to keep a backup...that has saved me more than once when one got contaminated and I could not clean it up!

Karen, Thanks and your welcome!!


My wife encourged me to get a bit more specific with the bread recipes....so I did some reading and weighing what I was adding to my bread this week. My dough pretty much follows the Bakers formula.  For those unfamiliar with this you construct a recipe as follows. the flour volume or mass is always 100% and all other ingredients are expressed as a percentage of the flour. As an example I have been baking some loaves with a 62% hydration...that is for every 1000 grams of flour I add 620 grams (milliliters) of water, the loaf also has 1.5% salt so I add 15 grams of salt to the dough. I added the flour and water through 3 feeding/fermentation cycles before the construction of the final bread dough. The final dough initially is quite sticky but using one hand to knead and a dough scrapper it only takes about 5 or 6 minutes of kneading before it gets to the texture that is easy to handle....I knead for 20 minutes at least....to lessen the stickyness you can try spraying the board and your hands with water instead of adding more and more flour.....but is still use a light dusting of flour to help in the final shaping of the loaves and also to make adjustments to get the consistency I am looking for in a bread dough. I started with about 1 1/2 cups of my starter which is used at least once but mostly twice a week.

The fermentation/feeding cycles are crucial for giving the enzymes sufficient time to convert the starches and other carbohydrates into sugars and other great tasting elements. Even a standard yeast bread will benefit greatly from some extended fermentation....and there are names like poolish and biga which are essentially what you are making in the first couple of fermentation cycles..for instance a poolish is akin to the thick pancake-like batter you get by mixing your starter up in a 1 cup flour to 1 cup water recipe....it just has standard yeast in it but by fermenting it you get those complex flavors out of the flour.

The fermentation cycles also allow the gluten get a head start in forming, thus, making kneading easier.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Bob you are amazing. Were you a baker or chemist in another life? How about a conversion for those of us who still use cups and oz. and teaspoon measurements. I do have a very accurate scale I bought just for baking (I used to bake a lot more than I do now) Do you think it is more accurate to weigh vs measure by cups? I have always heard it was.

Thank you Bob for the SF starter too, I will make sure I save some. I just put the WW starter in two jars of warm 80* water with some WW flour mixed in. I'll mix and feed it tomorrow. Part of my problem is keep it warm. I keep my heat really low in my house so it is difficult to get it to stay warm at 80 -85 degrees. I'll have to concoct something.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

...while I have a habit of flying by the seat of my pants in my bread baking when I found that my 'recipes' closely matched the Bakers formula wasn't surprising....the dough has to have this type of consistency (hydration) or you won't be satasfied with the end product.......and I made a lot of bad loaves to find this out!! 

Weights are always more accurate that measuring....the flour is the biggest variable....sifted...not sifted...ect......water is less of a problem since volume and mass go hand in hand.........I'll look up some recipes with weights and volumes and post them later....the starter will work in cooler temps you just need a bit of patience in working with it..........


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## Garnet (Sep 19, 2003)

DH got WW flour at the coop yesterday, and I now have the WW starter going. Both starters are doing fine. I will probably start bread with the SF starter today or tomorrow.


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## dennisjp (Mar 3, 2006)

Thanks a million for the starter Bob. I have been slow at getting started because it has been so cold here the last few days and I was scared I would ruin it because of the temp, but Ed came to the resue, and thanks for the idea Ed, I have an old ice chest I will use as soon as I get me a thermometer. I have plenty of gadgets to get a light set up, just need the temps. 
I have an old refregerator I keep my welding rods in with a 25 watt light in it to keep them dry, but it get too hot. 

Bob, I PM'ed you but a couple of people said they didn't get some of my PM's, but I need your address so I can send you a few $$. 
Thanks again, and thank you Ed. Great idea. 
Dennis


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Well, my two jars of ww starter are sitting on the top of my fridge to help keep them sort of warm. I have stired them several times today and fed them once. But the keep separating and they really don't look too frothy. Maybe I have too much water in there? As I look at them not they are separated and are about 1/2 water and 1/2 Flour, should I add more flour? They don't smell bad but..... I'll keep working with them and maybe get a box like Dennis and Ed are using. I had one once but the dog ate it :nono:


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

My starter is doing great! Poor thing, I was starving it or drowning it or both. After I posted the above post I added more flour to get it to the consistency my old starter used to be. This morning it was going really well so I gave it some more WW flour and I just transferred it to the crock I keep my sourdough in and it is going into the fridge. I have my backup too just in case :dance: 

Thanks again Bob!


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## Garnet (Sep 19, 2003)

Saga of first loaf of bread. 

This morning I used the SF starter in my bread recipe using UB flour. The dough is in a plastic bowl covered with wax paper, sitting between 2 slow cookers. A digital thermometer has indicated 85F for a few hours. It has more than doubled in size, so before long I will punch down and form a loaf.

I have been keeping the jars of starter beside the coffee maker. I discovered that I can keep the jars at the right distance to maintain the 85F while the coffee maker is on. The rest of the time it is around 75. As long as the starter is working, the temp seems to be ok. I'll be running the slow cookers a couple more times, so I will try a WW loaf. 

I wanted to do this one loaf at a time to test. I was pleased to see that could mix the dough and knead a little in the bowl. Knead some more on the table without flour, and put it back into the bowl to rise. Clean process.

Ok, had to take time out to help DH install a new front storm door. Then I decided it was time to finish the bread job. The loaf is now in the pan rising with residual heat from the slow cookers (that needed to be turned off.)

The dough doesn't smell real sour, so we'll be curious to see how the flavor turns out.


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## Garnet (Sep 19, 2003)

Bob, the check is in the mail. Thanks again.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Garnet congratulations! Can you take pictures when they are done?

One thing, if you keep your starter on the counter at 85* all the time I think, if I remember right, it will get really sour. This is unless you aren't using it all the time. For storage purposes I would keep it in the fridge until needed than get it to room temp.

Now this may be total hogwash, but I'm sure Bob will come and tell us what is what.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

Sourness is a byproduct of longer fermentations. It is possible to leaven a sourdough bread (using the SF starter I use and have sent many of you) so quickly that the bacteria do not have enough time to produce the lactic acid necessary for that really sour flavor. One way to get a sourer sour dough is to do as Marchwind suggested and keep the culture on the counter and give it repeated feedings over a couple of days...another way is to slow or retard the fermentation in the fridge for 12-24 hours after the first rise and the loaves have been shaped (at least that is the way I do it).

One of the interesting historical aspects of sourdough is that the cultures used to make bread during the goldrush days depended on a aged and sour (acidic) culture to provide the acid portion of the bread dough to react with the baking soda to produce the carbon dioxide that gave the bread their leavening.....they did not make naturally leavened loaves in those days.

here is a plot on yeast growth and bacteria growth versus temperature....











also a bit is science on sourdough cultures..

http://www.egullet.com/imgs/egci/sourdough/science.html

The whole wheat starter makes a sourer loaf than the SF starter in my opinion.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

...OK I owe an apology to all who are waiting for starter(s)....busy weekend kept me from getting the starters prepped for shipping.......I was hoping to get them out today but we are madly trying to pack and get out of here to head to Big Sur...since our opening day of crab season went bust due to weather.....but they will be shipped this monday I promise!!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Bob I love Big Sur  I've only been there once but loved what I saw. We ate at a place that over hung the cliffs. I can't remember the name of it but Kaffe Fassett's parents own it, if that means anything to you. They had great burgers.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I recently found this thread and am so glad to learn more about sour dough! I've had a couple of starters for some time and they do fine, but have never found my breads to be quite "sour" enough for me. Now I find that I've been hurrying them and not fully letting the fermentation happen. 

I've started a loaf and am taking my time with it, looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

edit: It turned out great - the best flavor I've gotten with that starter! Now I am playing with my SF starter, which I've always liked better anyway. Thanks a lot, I'm having a good time!


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## sellis (Apr 7, 2006)

bob can you look at you r private mail i left a message for you


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## Rowena (Feb 7, 2008)

I am experimenting with a spelt starter and pure spelt recipe for family with wheat allergies. I am not having a lot of luck, but am going to try the guidelines set in this thread, any other ideas?


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## Tadpole (Feb 7, 2005)

I would like to see if someone has a starter that they would share with me. I would love to try to make sourdough bread for myself. Have been buying store bought an it's...you know. I will be glad to pay for the starter.
I'd also like to ask a question. What kind of starter you keep in the ref. and take out a cup an put back 1/2 cup plain flour, 1/2 cup water, 1/4 cup sugar.
Several years ago this lady had a crock with a lid in her ref. an she would take some out an make biskets. That was so good. If I remember right this inside the bowl was kind of bubbles in there.??not real sure tho. If anybody knows what that was can you help me with recipe. I'd to try that too..


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## Deodatus (Sep 27, 2009)

Well I would offer you mine but it may not be practical - what I can really recommend is a link Immaculate Sublimity gave me:

http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/

For just a 1$ and a SASE they send you some original Oregon Trail Sourdough starter. I have got it and its very good much better than commercial yeast you can get. Ik keep my sourdough in the fridge - if I have time I get it out add a cup and a half of water and flour and a little sugar. Leave it out overnight and then use about 2.5 cups to start a new pair of loaves.

If I am in a hurry I just take a cup and a half out and make the dough. The sourdough gets a fresh cup of flour and some warm water before going back in the fridge. As for what you saw - yup thats a bubbling sourdough yeast active and feeding and getting happy. When you have sourdough it will form a layer of a yellowish liquid over the top. Thats alcohol - mix it back in as its good for the yeast who likes the acid environment.

Good Luck

Deodatus


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## Immaculate Sublimity (Apr 30, 2003)

Indeed my beloved Deodatus, there is nothing better than happy yeastie beasties for your sourdough. The oregon trail stuff is good stuff!

I.S.


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## Tadpole (Feb 7, 2005)

Deodatus, couple of questions here. If I get this nest week(already ordered) how long does it take to do sourdough? 
There is a sweet dough at Walmarts about ?? almost $4 for a round bread an boy I could eat the whole thing myself it's that good. Would you happen to know how to copy that sweet bread recipe?
I'm glad to know that sourdough will bubble in the refridge. This lady made the best biscuits you ever eat.


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## Deodatus (Sep 27, 2009)

Tadpole, I cant say when your sourdough arrives it depends on the batches they make mine was sent overseas and arrived in two and a half weeks which I thought was pretty good. On carls site there is a recipe for sourdough but its not a sweet one. The biscuits they also have a recipe for are great though. I am currently travelling I will look up a few recipes on sweet sourdough when I return on Saturday.

best of luck


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## Tervnut (Oct 7, 2009)

I LOVE baking with sourdough and have a sweet (herman) starter as well as a AP flour/water starter on my counter all the time, I use them both regularly. They add such a lovely complexity to the breads and baked goods they're used in.

Nona B
NW PA


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## Tadpole (Feb 7, 2005)

Tervnut, would you mind sharing your recipes?


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## Tervnut (Oct 7, 2009)

I'd love to share my SD recipes  ...

They really are very simple, and you can do a search on Google or Dogpile and find hundreds of uses for the starters.

For a quick and easy starter, say you want to make bread in 24 hours: Mix equal parts flour and water a pinch of yeast (instant is fine) and a pinch of salt. Cover and allow to sit in a cool place over night to work. In the morning it should be bubbly and doubled and ready to be made into pancakes or bread. This simple process amazingly improves the flavor of basic bread recipes a great deal, you can find more about this online by searching for information on "Poolish".

I have used Carl's starter, it has a lovely distinct flavor and I recommend going to their site and requesting some, follow the directions given for ordering and reconstituting @ http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/.

My basic sourdough recipe that I have sitting on my counter at all times, and rebuild every time I use it has become lovely and sour is a combination of equal parts unbleached flour and water, mixed thoroughly, placed in a jar and allowed to sit covered by a coffee filter (rubber band to keep the filter on the jar) until the mixture becomes bubbly. The natural yeasts in the air and flour create a unique flavor. I feed this every couple days (when activity seems to diminish or it begins to create a clear serum on the top which I usually stir in, but you can pour off before feeding if you want to) to keep it healthy, you can simply increase volume or discard all but 1/3-1/2 cup and add that to the 'feed' (usually 1/2-1 cup at a time of each flour and water). After about two weeks you can put this into the refrigerator, simply remove what you need at time of baking and replenish/feed your starter and pop it back into the fridge. Never close the jar completely as pressure can cause exploding jar syndrome (yuk!), or you can transfer it to a baggie to put into the fridge, again though allow it to vent by leaving it slightly un-sealed at the top. Once it is in the fridge it will take some time for the lovely buggies to munch on the new yeasts, if you prefer to allow it to sit on the counter for 18-24 hours after feeding/replenishing it wouldn't hurt.

When removing your SD starter for use from the fridge especially, make sure that it is warmed to room temp prior to use, if it has been in the fridge adding a little of the recipes liquid and flour to it will help it to become active quicker as well.

I also always have a 'Herman' on the counter. Mix 1 cup each sugar, milk, and flour and a pinch of yeast in a lightly covered non-metal container. Mix daily at least twice with a wooden or plastic spoon (never metal). On days 2,5,7, and 10 add again equal parts sugar, milk, and flour ("feed") to the mixture. By day ten it should have a lovely sweet-sour smell and be lightly active after each addition. On day 11, place 1 cup + feed in a baggie (don't seal completely) put into the fridge, use the remaining cups to make killer-sweet coffee cake, pancakes, sweet-biscuits, cake, and so much more (search online for "Herman recipes" and see what you can find!).

Herman is a variation of "Amish friendship starter", and is slightly sweeter in my experience.

SD starters can be neglected for some time, to reactivate them simply feed them equal parts water and flour (or in Herman's case sugar/flour/milk) and place them in a warm part of the room for 12-24 hours or until bubbly. Make sure when feeding your container is at least 3x the volume of the starter as it can grow surprisingly large when fully active and just after a feeding.

Hope y'all enjoy this. For more information and tons of starter as well as how to use the starter recipes, search for sourdough online!

Enjoy!! 

Nona B
NW PA

Holler with any other questions, and I'll do my best to answer them!


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

Wow! This thread got me thinking...many, many, many (did I say MANY?) years ago I was in the foothills of the Sierra Mts. in California and came across an abandoned house. Inside was a book called "Adventures in San Francisco, Sourdough Cooking & Baking" by Charles D. Wilford. This was in 1973 and the book was brand new. I still have the book. Now I'm going to have to dig it out and give it a serious reading.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

My starter isn't pure in that I feed it with sugar/honey (whatever I feel like) and flour of whatever type I fancy. However, it's amazingly strong after 2 years of "rebuilding". It's also well traveled--it started in MD, went to NM, then Costa Rica, Ohio, back to MD, back to Ohio (at least 20+ times!), had a few days in VA and is now being used in Ohio and NM by Bill's sister who killed the 1st I left but claims what I sent last summer "has a mind of its own and is amazing". Actually, I have a "pure" strain from each area from which I sometimes add a little to the "base" if I'm feeling generous or impatient but for the most part I the current one do its thing. When I'm tired of SD, I let it dry out then freeze it; it takes about 2 days in a chilly house to get going again once "reconstituted".

All that nonsense above was to say that, IMO, the longer you possess a starter, the better it is (like fine wine) and that mixing up those commenced in different locales does make sense.


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## Tadpole (Feb 7, 2005)

Let me say I'm confused a little. 
Are you saying you can dry a starter out? How an how much do you dry out??
I mean 1/2 cup or how much? Can you put on wax paper or how else would you do this drying??


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

I've done it on wax paper and do not suggest that. Plastic wrap or one of those bendable cutting boards works well. I usually save about 1/2 cup. Spread it out thin and let it air dry. It's easier to reconstitute if you run it through a blender or food processor before emptying into a zippy bag or suitable container. I freeze mine though I have kept some on the shelf.


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

Oh, pooh! Bob, when I click on your name, there is no link to send a PM. Can you send one to me? Have I been blocked?


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## Tadpole (Feb 7, 2005)

The same thing happened to me. Can't get anywhere to PM BobK. What's up with that? I have noticed he hasn't posted in quite some time. Maybe another name?


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## suitcase_sally (Mar 20, 2006)

You're right! I didn't notice the dates on this thread until you mentioned it, but it's OLD!!! Oh well!


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## Deodatus (Sep 27, 2009)

Tadpole: Yes you can dry out the starter heat a pan and put baking paper on it - pour some of your starter on it spreading it around a bit fairly thinkly - it will dry and can be reconstituted. Carl's page also explains how to do this.

Now a Sweet Sourdough:

This recipe is for rather large quantities but adjust as you desire:

2.5 lbs of rye flour
2.5 lbs of strong wheat (basically bread baking) flour
1 1/4 ounce of salt
5 ounces of golden syrup (or honey, or molasses or black treacle or whatever you have to hand)

Another recipe adds 1/2 ounce of mixed spice.

I make the dough as follows - which is a fairly long process - take about a 1 cup of your starter and mix it with 2 cup of warmish water and 4 cups of your flour (mix the two types before hand). Leave overnight covered add the remainder of the flour and salt as well as sufficient water to have a fairly wet dough still. Mix and knead it well - leave to stand for a good 6 hrs at least - more if you like a more pronounced sourdough taste.

Persnally I dont mind half a day or more - a day and half tends to make it too strong for my taste. The dough will have this spider web like quality if the rising has gone well. If it it doesnt knead and let it rise again. 

Make the loaves - kind of like a cigar/torpedo - there is enough here to make four goodly sized loaves. Add flour to allow you to shape the loaves. You shoudl leabe them another hour to an hour and a half to proof.

Heat the oven to 425 F (380 if you have a hot air oven) - prick the tops of the loaves with a fork to prevent breaking of the crust. You can varnish the top of the loaves with a mix of an ounce of potato flour and a pint of boiling water. (Dont use all of it just brush it on - put them in and after 15mn brush again).

To achieve a better crust I use a steam method. My bottom plate in the oven is fairly deep and I leave it to preheat - when the bread goes in I toss a cup of water on the bottom plate. This makes for a thinner and more pleasant crust than otherwise. Baking should be done in about an hour.

Deodatus


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## Tadpole (Feb 7, 2005)

Thanks for the sweetbread recipe. I'm sure I will make after all the holidays. Got to be byself to be able to concertrate. you know the feeling don't you?? Thanks again


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