# Small breeds for meat?



## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

It's all Bernadette's fault.  Her post about her Polish popples had me thinking about small breeds all day. I have to admit, the standard size breeds are difficult for me to handle. I have small hands and a short reach... definitely disadvantages when trying to move larger rabbits. I'm not getting any younger... so I want to consider alternatives to big ol' meat rabbits to put meat on my table in my old age. Some days it doesn't seem that far away. 

Up until now, I haven't given much consideration to the small breeds. I have no inclination to show rabbits or get into the pet market in any big way. I enjoy the rabbits, but I'd enjoy them more if I could handle them more easily. So I'm looking for ideas and suggestions for breeds or crosses that might meet my needs. I'm also looking for creative ideas for indoor housing in case I end up back in a city apartment when this _place_ gets too much for us to handle.


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## Bernadette (Jan 17, 2004)

Believe it or not, the Holland Lop that I had butchered just to check exactly that didn't dress out too badly. Cooked it for hubby and I, and we still had leftovers. Mind you, it was mature, so a fair bit more feed went into it, but I think it was a good three pounds.

I would think any of the stalkier breeds like perhaps the dutch would be good. When/if I end up doing any of the Polish, I'll let you know how they make out. The meat to bone ratio is what will be important.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Thanks, Bernadette, I'll look forward to your reports. 

I agree that meat/bone ratio is important, but also feed/meat conversion rate. How long do the smaller breeds take to get to a reasonable size (the equivalent of a five-pound meat breed rabbit) and do they do it economically?

Dutch would likely be a good choice. I'll have to do some reading up on them. They are supposed to have nice temperaments too.


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## ajharris (Jan 26, 2006)

Dutch are good smaller meat rabbits. I butchered 10 last week, and they weighed out at 2 lbs a piece. They were 14 weeks old. Mini Rex are pretty decent meat rabbits also, with them, you could do something with their pelts also.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

"weighed out at two pounds apiece."

Amanda, would that be live weight or dressed weight?


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## ajharris (Jan 26, 2006)

That was dressed weight. They were supposed to be pure dutch, but I don't know for sure.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

A friend of mine raises Netherland Dwarfs, and her kids love them because each one gets a whole rabbit to eat when they cook them. She doesn't waste them, anyway. I would think a rabbit that dresses out at 2# is pretty good.

Jennifer


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Impressive. :goodjob:

I will have to give Dutch rabbits serious consideration. I was googling about this evening trying to find a breeder within easy reach of our old '85 van, but so far nothing. Not that there is any rush... still in the information gathering stage here.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

Dutch is a really good choice, also the Blank de Hottentot (or what ever the mascara rabbits are called) they come in large and small, the rabbits i got for my colony have that in them, i saw the original buck and he was a little chunky thing, of corse he bred NZW does to get to what i have now, but they still make decent meat rabbits,


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## moonkitten (Mar 4, 2005)

Harlequins are a great mid-sized breed. They aren't that much smaller than commercial meat rabbits (6-8 lbs adult weight) but they are sooooo docile and easy to handle (usually). When I had carpal tunnel and had pain in my wrists, I had no trouble with the Harlequins compared to a real struggle dealing with the New Zealands. :grit:

They get to 5 pounds at about 12-14 weeks on a pellet diet, so just a little slower than the big breeds, but still pretty reasonable - and they come in such cool colours and patterns that every litter is like opening a christmas present!!! :clap:


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## ladysown (May 3, 2008)

Depends maggie if you want purebreds or are willing to do mixes.
I've done dutch, mini lop, holland lop, mini rex and mutt meat rabbits. 

Meat rabbits grow quickest and biggest...but are naturally bigger. Easy to handle, gentle personalities, nice rabbits but big. don't sell well to the pet crowd, but the babies work well for the dog food crowd and the meat is quicker too. 

Dutch I find are too self-possessed for my taste. They butcher well and you get a decent meal for one-two people.

Mini rex are into everything and great for being escape artists and give good meat. I love this breed and find it more difficult to kill one for my table, but they are easy to clean and the youngsters make enough of a meal for me.
I have to admit though that I like the carcass off the mini rex/mini lop cross better AND those grow out faster. And those are highly popular crosses around here for the cheap bunny pet market.

Mini lops work well, sometimes seem harder to kill properly...I always find myself double checking that I've really got them killed. I don't like that. It's that big head I think. It could just be a mental thing though. I tend to sell the non-productive or bad attitude ones rather than culling them out myself. BUT their babies are highly popular so I very rarely have one left from a litter.

haven't had to do any holland lops yet. smaller over all then everything else I have but I've got one doe here who rivals my mini lop doe in size and expect when time comes she'll make a good stew rabbit. I'm hoping to have her for several years to come though. Older bucks are the perfect size for dog people (mine generally want the 2-4 lb rabbits).


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

MaggieJ said:


> It's all Bernadette's fault.  I have to admit, the standard size breeds are difficult for me to handle. I have small hands and a short reach... definitely disadvantages when trying to move larger rabbits. I'm not getting any younger... so I want to consider alternatives to big ol' meat rabbits to put meat on my table in my old age.


Definitely considerations for me ... unfortunately I think I've probably reached "old age" at least if "late 60s" qualify me. DH is in his late 70s and neither of us have big appetites either, so cooking for the two of us does mean smaller portions.

I have standard Rex and a few Velveteen Lops and got "smaller rabbits" more or less by accident ... I bred a smallish Rex doe to the smallest (maybe 6#) V-Lop buck to determine if he was fertile ... and the kits I got are definitely smaller than the standard Rex kits. Easier to handle and a better butcher size for my purposes.

Light-bulb time ... cross does from this cross back to a MiniRex buck ... and maybe instant "two person meal" size fryers ... much like the Cornish game hens I used to do years ago for holiday dinners ... add one more for every additional guest!

I haven't got to the MiniRex cross yet so can't say for sure if the end result is going to be what I think it is, but if it works in "real life" like it does on paper, here is what I will have:

A) Easier to handle, smaller space requirements, less feed costs since you're maintaining smaller breeding animals.

B) A fryer that is a "single serving" size for most people and adequate for the two-person, smaller appetite as well.

C) Good opportunities for pet sales, smaller animal, Rex coat, lop ears ... all great "cute" factors if you have a pet market at all.

D) Another advantage for the breeder, the F1 cross does back to a MiniRex buck should produce bigger litters and avoid the "peanut" kits as well.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

Dutch are great for meat rabbits.

They are hardy, don't take up as much room as the big meat breeds. They are good mothers and good producers. Some breeders will breed a Dutch doe when they breed other rabbit breeds so they can have a foster mom available. Our Dutch fostered everything we gave them. 

They only eat half as much, but it does take two rabbits to make the weight of one of the big meat breeds.

But here is the bonus, Dutch rabbits with their muscular body type have a high percentage of usable meat (dressout) compared with other big meat breeds.

I process Dutch rabbits at 10 to 12 weeks (2 to 2-1/2 lbs) and get nice little 1 lb+ carcasses that are good for barbecue or crockpot. Good dressout percentage on those little rabbits.

From my observation and from other people who post on the rabbit groups, I believe temperment is inherited. I don't usually keep "biters" or psycho bunnies for breeding stock. 

Dutch are also popular as a pet rabbit, the two toned coat color is very attractive.

Have a good day!


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Great input from everyone... Thanks!

For those of you with the larger rabbits who don't like leftovers, try portioning the rabbits at butchering time and freezing packages of parts. There are three of us here, so I like to process multiples of three, just to keep it easy. That means three hind legs to a bag or six front ones. Three loins for another meal. The rest goes in one bag for a crockpot full of soup or stew, two supper's worth. So three standard rabbits give us six suppers, no leftovers except the soup or stew and it's always better the second day anyhow. Or freeze it for a quick meal on a day you don't feel like cooking.


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## gerald77 (Aug 2, 2007)

ya know i was wondering about butchering the smaller breeds since i caved in and got those two mini rex. i thought the doe seemed to be a good size and the little buck was even a pudgy thing. i also have a harlequin mix buck in the colony that is about her size(he was supposed to be bigger) so i bred her to him while waiting for the little buck to get old enough. i'm curious to see what i end up with meat wise out of those two. if it goes well then lou gets to live, if it goes bad then i might have to eat him. i think it will go fine though and then i might keep a seperate cage area for the mini's. i still can't believe i bought those mini rexs. i'm glad this thread got started cause now i have proof that people eat the mini's and my hubby will quit laughing at my appetizers!!

maggie, i got my pilgrim geese this past weekend and they are mean!


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

ajharris said:


> Dutch are good smaller meat rabbits. I butchered 10 last week, and they weighed out at 2 lbs a piece. They were 14 weeks old. Mini Rex are pretty decent meat rabbits also, with them, you could do something with their pelts also.



I have dutch also....they don't eat much at all, my rex's eat way more. They are very sweet (at least mine are) and they make litters of about 9. (at least mine do)


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## KimTN (Jan 16, 2007)

Hi,
You could try Florida whites or Havanas. They are small and very stocky rabbits that dress out very well and require half the feed of a NZ. I have some that have loins so wide that I can't get my hand across them. You might have to wait till 12 weeks instead of 8 for a NZ, but end up with more meat for less feed. I've had dutch in the past, but they didn't dress out as well and Havanas and Florida whites.


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## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

Florida Whites give you a lot of bang for your buck, they are a very dense, weighty little rabbit, litters can be quite large(too big, 12 one time) They gain weight and hold it, stay in condition easily and well on a lot less food. They also cross well with other breeds and exhibit hybrid vigor, my Florida White/Harlequin babies were quick growers, compact and well fleshed. I've also heard great things about Dutch, and non-dwarf Mini-Rex, and Mini-Lops. If I was thinking just meat production I'd get a FW Buck, and then a doe of each breed, Dutch, Harlequin, Mini-Rex and Mini-Lop. See who produced best, and which cross had the best hybrid vigor.


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## AprilW (Nov 25, 2007)

I'm experimenting with English Spots for meat and show use. They are 5-8 pounds mature, but have a racey body type. I was attracted to them for showing and pets at first, but they'd probably have decent meat. My stock is yet too young to breed so I won't know their use for meat for a while.

Dutch are excellent small meat rabbits. They are also popular for pets in most areas so you can sell your extras.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

When I first started out, I was given a couple of Dutch. As others have noted, they are very nice for dressing out: not too big, not big eaters, but certainly meaty for the size.

Now that I'm into larger meat rabbits, I still occasionally consider getting a Dutch pair, maybe for the small family market.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Honorine said:


> If I was thinking just meat production I'd get a FW Buck, and then a doe of each breed, Dutch, Harlequin, Mini-Rex and Mini-Lop. See who produced best, and which cross had the best hybrid vigor.


I think I would probably go the "other" way with the mini does. In some classes of animals (though not all) if you breed small females to larger males you may have problems with the size of the fetus. I don't know if that is the case with rabbits or not but I would tend to err on the side of caution and use the larger breed as the doe.


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

I was thinking of trying to get a Dutch buck and trying him on my standard mutt does... No size issues for kindling and I might get something good that way. If I can find one locally, I'll likely give it a try. 

Lots of good ideas in this thread to mull over... Thanks everyone.

*Kristin*, I PM'd you about the geese.


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## Pat Lamar (Jun 19, 2002)

Florida Whites have all the attributes of the New Zealand white, but smaller. They will quickly grow to 4 lbs. and then level out. Top weight for a mature Florida White is 6 lbs. Too small for the professional meat industry which requires 5 lbs. by 12 weeks of age, but they will reach 3-1/2 to 4 lbs. in 12 weeks and making them an ideal personal table meat rabbit. This breed was developed specifically for the laboratory market which wanted a smaller type rabbit but with the same attributes as the New Zealand white. These are very meaty rabbits!

Dutch average about a half pound smaller than the Florida whites and should likewise be comparable to the Florida whites for personal meat purposes. Careful, though... some lines have a tendency for births with spinal bofida (my spelling may be off on this).

My personal choice would be the Florida Whites.

Pat Lamar


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Florida Whites sound like excellent rabbits, Honorine and Pat, but they are not easy to find here in Ontario. Thanks for the heads up about spina bifida in Dutches, Pat. I'd never have thought of something like that in rabbits.


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## DollCan (Jun 29, 2008)

MaggieJ said:


> Florida Whites sound like excellent rabbits, Honorine and Pat, but they are not easy to find here in Ontario. Thanks for the heads up about spina bifida in Dutches, Pat. I'd never have thought of something like that in rabbits.


That's been my finding as well Maggie. We originally were looking for Florida Whites but found none.

If anyone knows of any in Ontario please let me know.

Thanks


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

My mini-satins dressed out on the average of 2 lbs at 9 weeks. 54% to 67%.
Mean little buggers though.the parents were oversized. both doe and buck 6lbs.
My min-rex are just too small for too long but I love them and rather sell them as pets anyway.


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## Bernadette (Jan 17, 2004)

Check with the people at DRCBA - Liz Voight had some Florida Whites at the show here in Powassan a couple of years ago. Also you should be able to find them at the Royal.


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## DollCan (Jun 29, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I'm really hoping to get to the Royal this year. It's been years for me and Nick has never gone.


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## SILEIGH (Jul 11, 2007)

ok i'm going to weigh in on florida whites
i found some to start my rabbit venture off with- a buck from a breeder using him to get mini-satins, and 2 does from another person.
the does were mean nasty hateful animals - blamed that on there first home
the replacement does i kept were mean nasty hateful animals- cant be blamed on me!! 
they are good meat rabbits no doubt, good mothers also. but hateful.
the only one i have left is the buck, a very sweet rabbit. 

i got to talking to a satin breeder. he also has minisatins. he told me that the florida white was used in breeding the satins down to minis, thats why mini satins are mean also. 

of course i realize that this is just my experiance but i have heard this from others repeatedly. i'm also sure that there are nice FW's out there. 
the one thing a breeder did say was REW's of any breed are mean. 

just food for thought


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

Any really mean, nasty, hateful rabbit of any breed would not last long here. I do think though that any breed or line can be improved by culling for temperament. In the case of you your Florida Whites, Leigh, it might have been difficult if they were all as bad as you say. Maybe trying a different supplier would have helped.

I'm not drawn to the REW rabbits in any breed, so I don't suppose I will spend too much time looking for Florida Whites. The Dutch seem fairly easily available and seem like nice rabbits. I could use a Dutch buck on my existing does and see how that goes. 

I also like Moonkitten's suggestion of Harlequins. I'm a those colours and patterns! So they make my short list too.


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## SILEIGH (Jul 11, 2007)

i didn't want to spend time culling for temperment. easier to switch breeds!
i had a dutch doe she was nice and easy going. dutch are nice looking little rabbits though and there are different colors. but i like your idea of a dutch buck for your existing does. the size is somewhat smaller right off and the way you run your herd- if you like what you see eventually you will end up with what you want!!


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

SILEIGH said:


> ok i'm going to weigh in on florida whites
> i found some to start my rabbit venture off with- a buck from a breeder using him to get mini-satins, and 2 does from another person.
> the does were mean nasty hateful animals - blamed that on there first home
> the replacement does i kept were mean nasty hateful animals- cant be blamed on me!!
> ...


Yes I have heard that too. And YES the mini-satin can be mean. I have a buck that is nice but his 1/2 brother is mean. Out of my 6 does, one is nuts the 5 are ok.


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## moonkitten (Mar 4, 2005)

MaggieJ said:


> I also like Moonkitten's suggestion of Harlequins. I'm a those colours and patterns! So they make my short list too.


Reeeeaaaallllllyyyyyy???? Gee, I just happen to have a few does and bucks approaching breeding age to sell.....


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

moonkitten said:


> Reeeeaaaallllllyyyyyy???? Gee, I just happen to have a few does and bucks approaching breeding age to sell.....


Very tempting, Moonkitten!  

I wish you were a bit closer. We drive an '85 Dodge van that we love because it is pre-computer age. It's pretty reliable and Brian can do some of the work on it, but we don't push it very hard because its got to last for as long as possible.


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## DollCan (Jun 29, 2008)

Hey Moonkitten, where are you located???


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## moonkitten (Mar 4, 2005)

DollCan said:


> Hey Moonkitten, where are you located???


Toronto-ish area.


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## Bernadette (Jan 17, 2004)

Na, na, Doll's in trouble!! Where'd you tell me you were headed for Thanksgiving? Hee hee! Moonkitten's not far from there! I'm sure she'll PM you! And her rabbits are awesome.


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## moonkitten (Mar 4, 2005)

MaggieJ said:


> Very tempting, Moonkitten!
> 
> I wish you were a bit closer.


If you ever decide you want some stripes in your herd, I'm sure we can figure it out. I managed to get a rabbit up to Bernadette!! (Although it did take a couple of months to find someone headed that way  )


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## Bernadette (Jan 17, 2004)

moonkitten said:


> If you ever decide you want some stripes in your herd, I'm sure we can figure it out. I managed to get a rabbit up to Bernadette!! (Although it did take a couple of months to find someone headed that way  )


And a beautiful bunny he is!


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I've been thinking 'smaller' for my rabbits, also, and am glad to hear about the Florida White temperament problems, because they were at the top of my list for a smaller breed. I'll look into a couple of the others, instead. Thanks, you all.

Kathleen


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## MaggieJ (Feb 6, 2006)

moonkitten said:


> If you ever decide you want some stripes in your herd, I'm sure we can figure it out. I managed to get a rabbit up to Bernadette!! (Although it did take a couple of months to find someone headed that way  )


Thanks, Moonkitten. That's so nice of you! I'm going to work with what I have for the next few months, seeing as how I just brought in some new buns, but depending on circumstances here perhaps we can talk in the spring.


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## DollCan (Jun 29, 2008)

We're heading to K-W and Brantford after church on Sunday. Heading back to Ottawa on Tuesday. Anyone needing a pick up? lol


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## moonkitten (Mar 4, 2005)

BlueJuniperFarm said:


> I've been thinking 'smaller' for my rabbits, also, and am glad to hear about the Florida White temperament problems, because they were at the top of my list for a smaller breed. I'll look into a couple of the others, instead.


Although certain breeds might be classified with temperament issues, do keep in mind that there are good and bad individuals in all breeds. Although almost all of my harlequins are sweet and docile, I do have a Japanese doe that is EXCEPTIONALLY protective of her kits. She will bite down on any part of me that is put into her cage unless I place one hand over her head and down on her back first. Once touched, she drops to the ground and waits for me to finish kit inspection, but woe for me if I forget to make her submit!!

On the other hand, she is a fantastic mother with incredible markings, so she stays in the barn in spite of her tendency to draw blood. I foster her well marked kits to a sweet tempered mom, and so far, they have all grown up easy handlers as well. One of these days, she will be culled, but until she produces a doe with markings as good or better than her own, I will continue to put up with her antics.

So even in a docile breed, you can get individual quirks!


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## tailwagging (Jan 6, 2005)

My nice buck is over sized to show but is SOO nice in temperament compared to others that I have seen at the shows (their nickname is mini satans) I haven't sent him on. The does I have from him and the two does I started with are nice tempered. Only the 1/2 brother buck and the other doe that I bought are a bit wild. Neither have bitten but the buck will stomp and fake charge and of course he of very good show type.
Hopefully I can produce both good tempers and type.


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## Honorine (Feb 27, 2006)

There's good and bad in all breeds, my Florida Whites have very good temperaments, I've had no problems with nastiness or biting at all. I did have a buck that was very shy but not a mean bone in his body, you could do anything to him and he would just cringe and grunt. My foundation doe is actually rather outgoing, and all of her get are pretty nice. Dutch had a reputation in the past of being nasty, but most would disagree with that, and a Satin anything is called a 'Satan' like TW said, and many would disagree with that as well. I have seen Mini Satins try to attack a judge, I was thinking of getting a Mini Satin and crossing it to my FW's and working on my own MS's because my FW's are so nice. As with all things Your Mileage May Vary, a problem that one person had with a breed may have been from a particular line, and you may not have the same problem. Granted, since I have a child and we show I only keep rabbits with good temperaments and other breeders may not lean as heavily in that direction. Still no reason to diss an entire breed.

I must admit, I do love Harleys and think their the bomb, their the best mothers, produce huge amounts of milk and are just stunning to look at. However I feel that there's too much variation in the breed, that too much emphasis is put on perfect markings versus type. The babies also seem to be quite weedy and don't seem to pack on the weight until older. Used as a cross though I've had good results with the FW, kits were glossy black, grew fast but were compact. Not such a great cross with the Lilacs, did get a lot of kits, black and chocolate solids and otters(my Harley is a black Magpie carrying chocolate) I'm a strong believer in hybrid vigor, and think that crosses are really the best way to go. Also as long as your crossing a REW to a colored rabbit without REW in its genetics your only going to get colored rabbits.


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## SILEIGH (Jul 11, 2007)

Honorine-- totally agree with you. i got rid of the does and kept the buck because he has a great personality. i use him on a cali doe for meat. 
it really depends on the line you get or are able to produce. 
my black satins from one breeder are dreams to deal with. i have had no time to handle them but when 2 escaped they hopped to my feet i scooped them up no kicking or fussing at all!! the choc. satins (from a different breeder) are flightier. not horrible but not as easy going as the blacks. 
different lines different temperments.
FW's are meat making machines at any rate!


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