# Something wrong with my horse, but I can't find anything...



## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Since last week my pony started walking real slow. I checked her feet, and they look great, as usual. She's always had good feet. She's not showing any signs of lameness, but I checked her legs, back, and her whole body. She's not showing any signs of pain, like heavy breathing, and body temp is normal, but she's hesitant to come out of her stall, and when she does, she walks very, very, slow. She's eating fine, and nicker's when she see's me.
Today, I spent some time grooming, and checking her over...I held out some alfafa hay, and she wouldn't walk out of her stall to get it. I walked her out, and then she ate it. Again, walked real slow leaving the barn. I thought, maybe something is wrong with her eyes (God forbid), she's just not moving good. Also, she's the alpha horse, and I have to say, she's not herself!
I didn't call the vet, as of yet, since she's eating well, and seems healthy. I'm also afraid to get hit with a hefty bill. She has her feet done every 6 weeks, and my farrier has never seen any problems...ever!
She is 12 yrs old, I've had her for 10 yrs, and have her baby for 8 yrs. never had any problems. What else should I check for?
Thank-you all for any advice!!


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## Strange Bear (May 13, 2002)

You might check her for Lyme disease. Just a thought. Good luck


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

Have you taken a temperature? Any swelling?


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Is she slow all around and not just one hoof?


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

Are her hooves warm? (compare front to back) Is there a digital pulse? If the feet are warm I would suggest hosing them and calling the vet asap. Laminitis might be the problem. 

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## Farmfresh (Jan 11, 2009)

Tetanus is another horrible possibility. http://www.clydevetgroup.co.uk/equine/newsletters/oct05.htm


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

levi1739 said:


> Are her hooves warm? (compare front to back) Is there a digital pulse? If the feet are warm I would suggest hosing them and calling the vet asap. Laminitis might be the problem.


That was my first thought as well. Has her feed/turnout changed (e.g. do you have new spring grass for grazing?)

Lyme or tickborne disease is also possible; Lyme often doesn't have many symptoms other than "just not right".

Good luck!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

offthegrid said:


> That was my first thought as well. Has her feed/turnout changed (e.g. do you have new spring grass for grazing?)
> 
> Lyme or tickborne disease is also possible; Lyme often doesn't have many symptoms other than "just not right".
> 
> Good luck!


It's a prime time for Cushing's induced laminitis as well.

My old cushingoid gelding had a nasty bout of laminitis right _before_ the grass came out the last year of his life.


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

No swelling, or heat from the feet or legs.
They've had tetanus shots, and she hasn't had any injuries.
I'll look up lyme symptoms. Nothing has changed as far as feed/hay, and grass hasn't come up yet...Thanks everyone!


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I wouldn't trust no changes of feed to mean that you don't have laminitis (though you don't seem to have other symptoms). My mare foundered badly at age 20 in the late fall on her usual feed. My vet and my farrier never did seem to have a good idea why or how to stop it, but now that I know more, I suspect some metabolic change set it off. Possibly cushings or insulin resistance. It's so hard when you love your horses so much to see something you can't easily identify and deal with. I wish you luck with her!


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

The slow walking is what sounds like laminitis; my farrier calls it the "laminitis shuffle".

It is hard to feel heat in their feet sometimes. My Cushings pony was literally foundering and it wasn't that obvious from the "heat" in his feet. When my farrier tried to trim him (pony was new to us), he was able to tell right away based on the feel of the hoof and bruising.

Does your horse shift weight from foot to foot while standing?

Here is a video of my Cushings pony about a week after we got him. "Cushings" wasn't our first thought because he was so thin. But in retrospect it makes perfect sense. (Of course we had been told that pony was healthy blah blah blah by former owner of 12 years....I think that led us down the wrong path for a week or so...) We thought Lyme first, but Lyme was negative; ACTH was off the charts.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu5UsCEsZLg[/ame]


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I agree offthegrid it's an ouchy walking on eggshells type of shuffle and ponies can have odd or very few typical Cushing symptoms.


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

I called the vet today. She was still walking slow, and I held out a carrot, and she didn't take at first, so I thought she couldn't see. Anyway, we saw a small 1/4 in. crack on her sole, so the vet thinks it may be an abcess. Digital pulse is up on that hoof. No heat, and doesn't favor any hoof, but showed some sensitivity to hoof tester. I called my farrier, which I wish I did at first, but I thought it was serious, since she's not showing lamness.
I'm not yet convinced that the crack is an abcess, but I'll do all the treatment for it. Sometimes, they get a bruise on the sole, so I'll see how it goes until my farrier comes out. Thanks again very much all of you that took the time to write, and thanks soo much for the video!


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Just want to add to my last post, that I just soaked her foot. I got all the mud off, and scraped her sole out clean...THERE IS NO CRACK!! I guess what the vet saw was just a dirty groove on her sole. Now I'm really baffled, don't know what's going on with her. As I said before, she's not lame on it, that's why I told the vet I'm not convinced it's an abcess. He said "He thinks it is"....hmmm?
My pony's name is Windie...Windie just stood in the center isle of my barn, and let me work on her, and wouldn't leave when I got done. I massaged her all over, and had to walk her out. She walked out very slow and careful. I feel very upset for her today (been crying). Hopefully my farrier will call soon...he's always been great.


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## goatlady (May 31, 2002)

Really sounds to me like a visual problem - she apparently will move when YOU lead her and that slow shuffle may be because she cannot see the ground or even where she is headed? Cataracts possibly?


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

goatlady, I just don't know. The vet said her eyes looked o.k., but I'll keep checking with different techniques I read. I'm going to check her feet again too. I'm also VERY mad that the vet charged me $75.00 to come here, and another $75.00 for exam (total $150.00), and he's not even sure what the problem is. Then he started chipping away at her outer wall hoof to see if the crack traveled. I stopped him right away. I know that alone can be very painful, and why do that if your not seeing any problem!!? The farrier didn't call back yet either...soo frustrated!


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Are there any other local vets or farriers?


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

Dazlin said:


> goatlady, I just don't know. The vet said her eyes looked o.k., but I'll keep checking with different techniques I read. I'm going to check her feet again too. I'm also VERY mad that the vet charged me $75.00 to come here, and another $75.00 for exam (total $150.00), and he's not even sure what the problem is. Then he started chipping away at her outer wall hoof to see if the crack traveled. I stopped him right away. I know that alone can be very painful, and why do that if your not seeing any problem!!? The farrier didn't call back yet either...soo frustrated!


I still think the most likely cause of your problems stem from a bout of laminitis. Anytime a horse is reluctant to walk I suspect the problem to be in the foot and laminitis is my first thought. We recently had every horse in the barn (8 horses) experience a laminitic "attack" which was likely caused by something in the hay or some type of virus. Our vet said that he has been having a bunch of cases this year which he attributes to "winter founder" caused by the richness in last falls pasture. My personal thoughts were that the cause was something in the round bales (2 different paddocks) such as a toxic weed or maybe possum urine. Whatever the cause the horses all had a lamanitic episode and we treated it with dmso, bute and banamine. We were lucky since the horses now appear to be fine.

You might try tapping each hoof lighty with a hammer and listening for a difference in the sound. If there is seperation in the hoof wall you may be able to "hear" the difference in different areas of the foot and between the front and rears. Also, one of our 8 experienced an abcess which I feel was a result of the initial laminitis and the horses stressed physical condition. 

You need a farrier and possibly a new vet since this one wasn't able to identify your problem. Did the vet dig any sole in the area he thought might have an abcess? I've never experienced an abcess which displayed a crack in the hoof sole but maybe that's something in my future, lol.

Good luck, it can sure be troublesome to identify why a horse is showing signs of discomfort. It always makes me wish they could only talk and tell us what hurts.


Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Are you having wet conditions? Perhaps your problem is thrush and it's been my experience that thrush doesn't always smell bad quick enough to identify it.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Some horses just like some people are not very tolerant of pain. We had a lot of mud this winter that was sticky like paste and causing the horses to pick up rocks in their feet. 2 of my geldings were gimping around when they would move although like your pony they preferred not to. Had farrier out thinking abcesses but it was just stone bruises. It was a wrestling battle everyday just to get them to pick up their good front hoof for cleaning because they didn't want to put weight on their sore hoof. What petunias! I started them on DC-Y (another brand of Bute-less) right away and probably by the morning after their second dose there was noticeable improvement. After about a week they were able to go without it. Bute probably would have worked a little faster but they wouldn't touch their grain with that in it even though it was the flavored powder kind. Did I mention the name petunia? LOL


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

levi1739 said:


> I still think the most likely cause of your problems stem from a bout of laminitis. Anytime a horse is reluctant to walk I suspect the problem to be in the foot and laminitis is my first thought.
> 
> Good luck, it can sure be troublesome to identify why a horse is showing signs of discomfort. It always makes me wish they could only talk and tell us what hurts.


Agree. Did you watch my video? In retrospect it's shocking that we didn't say - OMG horse is foundering on all four! But we couldn't tell if it was body soreness, foot soreness, just didn't feel like walking, or just felt sick in general.

FYI what we did for the pony was remove as much sugar as possible (soaked hay, no grain, no grass); gave oral banamine (I think 250lbs) alternated with previcox (1/2 tablet for 3 days - which is a pretty big dose for a small pony) every 12 hours; deeply bedded stall and styrofoam on all feet (to be replaced by front shoes glued on soon after).

In our case, the bloodwork showed Cushings, so it wasn't until we got him on medication that he really improved. But in the meantime, you can try making your pony more comfortable with styrofoam "shoes" and anti-inflammatories for a few days.

In my experience - an abscess will prevent horses from wanting to walk/move, but it is usually very obvious which foot is painful. (I had a gelding boarded that would even "canter" using only 3 legs with an abscess). So if you can't tell which foot is in pain, or at least front v. back, I'd still think laminitis.


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## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

my horse acted real depressed once AND wasn't interested in food much ,walked real slow...stayed in his stall most of the time... 
perked up a little if walked....
vet came and checked ,could not find anything,gave a blood test...was anemic,found one kind of worms in his poo that none of the wormers I used treated ( I always used ivermectin and every few a differtent one, and wa,s not to concerned because he was a only horse, had to Give him 3 doses of ??? the one with the fem....something...in 3 days and about a week or 10 days later he perked up again.


_Posted from Homesteadingtoday.com App for Android_


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

ufo chris - are you talking about fenbendazole? That would be the active ingredient in Panacur.


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## Pat-wcWI (Oct 28, 2012)

One of my horses had a bad abscess once, but that didn't stop her from moving around. She just limped on that foot.

Does your pony have unlimited access to alfalfa hay? A pony of a friend of mine foundered on all four after they put a big round bale of alfalfa in the feeder.

I hope you can get your pony better again.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Isn't it standard procedure for a vet to take a blood sample to rule certain things out ( like lymes disease? )? I'm not too experience as I've only been a horse owner for less than a year, but I would have expected him to take blood as part of a regular exam/diagnosis.


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

My farrier called 2x (seems I missed a call), and we spoke about everything. He's coming here Monday morning, or sooner if anything changes. 
To answer some of your questions, Yes, I did watch and thanked u for the video, Windie gets very little grain, and coastal hay, weather has been very dry here in Florida. I've been soaking her foot, and don't see a thing wrong (n0 crack either). But she doesn't want to give me the good foot, maybe doesn't want to put weight on her bad foot. Honestly, I still can't tell, since she's not showing lameness on the one foot. I don't know about early laminitis, because her temp is normal, not laying down, does not shift her weight, no swelling or heat. But, I'm thinking maybe something is starting with that. Or maybe she bruised her sole?? She did show sensitivity to hoof tester on the 1 foot, and digital pulse was up a bit, on that foot only. Now figure this...she trotted away from me today when I went to get her to work on her foot!! She sure did not look lame!
Anyway, I'll wait to see what the farrier says Monday...I'll let you all know, and I really thank, and value your opinions!!


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

Maybe she's just come into spring heat and doesn't feel so energetic. You say she isn't lame just acting sluggish and reluctant to move with her usual energy. I look forward to hearing what your farrier finds but hope that maybe you don't have a problem at all. Just a moody mare in the spring time, lol.

Hang in there. You'll get it figured out soon.


Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## ufo_chris (Apr 30, 2010)

Darntootin said:


> Isn't it standard procedure for a vet to take a blood sample to rule certain things out ( like lymes disease? )? I'm not too experience as I've only been a horse owner for less than a year, but I would have expected him to take blood as part of a regular exam/diagnosis.


yes,that's why my vet did a blood test, because he could not find anything else wrong after a thorough check up.....
and to rule things out after finding out he was anemic, started with a poo sample and it showed the worms.
yes ,panacur,I use the generic version now and alternate wormers.



_Posted from Homesteadingtoday.com App for Android_


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

If she has a "good" foot and a 'bad" foot, the most likely thing is an abcsess. Does she actually stand with weight off the heel of the "bad" foot? 
Cold water makes an abscess much more painful so have you noticed she is limping after cold water is applied?
One way to check for laminitis is to tape something like a pad over her foot with duct tape. If she is less sensative then her sole is protected, that is highly indicative of founder.
Is she standing with more weight on her rear than normal, pointing or does her knee break forward with just a little push behind it? Might be heel soreness.
One other thing that happened to me this year was that one mare gradually over a course of a couple of days got very stiff when she walked, I thought at first founder but it looked like it was all four feet with more on the rear. Turned out it was an allergic reaction to little biting bugs that was atypical. No hive, or itching or tail swishing or anything that indicated bugs were bothering her. She only had a mild swelling all over, more like a thickening that anything pronounced. Bute make her much better the first day and nothing was noticable on the second.
But I did not really believe the vet at first because it was such a different reaction.


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Update on Windie...my farrier was here today. He did not see any signs of an abcess, or crack in the sole, but she definitely shows signs of soreness in both front feet. Not too much with hoof tester, but only by the way she is walking. No Laminitis either. He took off a bit of extra growth on the sole ( barring), to keep an even plain, but her her feet are good and hard/firm frogs, and healthy soles and walls. 
He suggested either a packing (he would apply) or a short round of Bute. He said if she were his horse he would opt for Bute, as it's been too long for her to be uncomfortable, and that could bring on another problem. I opted for Bute .Because She walks alot better on dirt.
So I had to call the vet to ask for Bute...UGH...He was quite ADAMANT that he did a thorough check-up, and is sure it's only the 1 foot, and a probable abcess brewing. But my BIG question is why wouldn't she be lame on the 1 foot, why why both? However he would dispense the Bute. So, as we speak..Windie has already had a dose of Bute, and will continue for a few days...we shall see! 
Thank-you all...Linda


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Did the farrier think there was any chance of navicular starting up?


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

One of my funniest vet stories...............

I had had a disagreement with a vet's diagnosis on a mare. Later she got dead lame on one foot. I called the same vet to check her for an abscess. He came out and told me it was not an abscess. I told him that I really thought so. He was holding her foot and pressing around the bulbs of the heel. Still holding it he said with a bit of temper that it clearly was not. Just as he said that, he flexed the pastern and stream of pus shot out of the heel and hit him in the face.
He treated her quietly but thoroughly and left. I don't think we said three words after the abscess broke. It was very quiet. To tell you the truth I wasn't at all mad at him- in fact I felt sorry for the dramatic demonstration that vets have a difficult job.
But the rememberence always makes me smile.

Sometimes you need to go with your gut feeling.


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## sheepgurly (Apr 7, 2013)

Bute will make her more comfortable and alleviate the pain, but it won't heal her. She may eventually pop an abscess but it may not be that. If she's still acting lame in a few days I would get another vet's opinion or even an equine massage therapist. If she's acting stiff and shuffling, and it's not laminitis, she may have some issues in her shoulders, chest or neck. A few sessions with an EMT would help work that out.


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## Fetherhd (Aug 16, 2012)

Has she been checked for the onset of Navicular disease?


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

It's three days on bute so far. I would say, Windie is walking a little better, and comes out of her stall now.
However...she HATES the Bute. Im crushing the tablets and mixing them in carrots , molasses, and applesauce, then in her feed. She wouldn't touch it today, so I added 1/2 apple and fed it to her in a dog bowl, while I held it for her :yuck:...so spoiled!!
I cleaned her feet today, and she seemed fine on all, and still not seeing any problems at all.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I had that problem with Star, I ended up putting her on B-L pellets, they worked almost as well for the pain, but don't have the nasty side affects of bute and come in tasty pellets that she enjoyed on her feed. I saved bute for the bad days. One thing it did was take her off her feed too, poor girlie.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

For many years, I have taken bute tabs and dissolved them in enough water to cover them. It takes 10-15 minutes to dissolve. Then I mix in some molassas and suck it into a catheter ended syringe.
Then I squirt it into the horse's mouth just like I would wormer. Since there is little water and lots of sweet and no particles for them to crunch, they are so fine with it, I can give any of my horses bute without bothering to halter them. The worse problem I have is sometimes one will bite on the syringe and not let go. 
They may be hesitant about the first dose but I have done this with horses big and small for years. Haven't found one to object to it yet.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Ooh, you totally need the flavored bute powder! First of all - no need to crush pills, which gets old very quick! Second, it smells like cotton candy - everyone wants it in their feed!

If you can't get that, you could try crushing bute tablets together with brown sugar, and then mixing with applesauce or molasses (or maybe nothing). I have had good luck doing that when dosing SMZs and other pills. 

Good luck - hope it helps. It also won't hurt to pack his feet in addition to anti-inflammatories if you don't see improvement.

Have you made any changes to feed/hay in case it was mild laminitis? I'm not sure a mild case would be evident by looking at the feet? * That's a good question for any of the farriers on this board? * (anyone?)

(In my pony's case, who was most definitely foundering - all four of his feed were bright red when the farrier trimmed his soles. No question what was going on). But I know for sure my mini did not look like that - now I can't remember if there was any pink or bruising on her feet at all, or if we just knew it was laminitis by the way she was walking?


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## Fetherhd (Aug 16, 2012)

How is the white line in her hooves. Sometime with mild founder it will turn dark...and as it progresses, it will widen. This does not sound like an Abscess. My Shooter had a deep abscess that eventually blew out through the top of her hoof. Where as she limped badly...it did not stop her from getting around even at its worst. I wonder if shoeing her in the front with pads might help...or I have heard of easy boots that have padding built in.


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

The brown sugar sounds like a good idea.!! 
Her soles look good, and white line looks good too. I'm keeping them clean and watching for anything, but her feet look really good as always. Farrier said no need to pack her hooves as of now, since we are giving Bute for any possible imflamation. After that we'll take it from there. She's walking almost normal today.
I cut her feed a bit, and she only gets coastal hay.
I really hope to figure out what happened to her, and if she acts that way again after the Bute, I'll probably go crazy, and then call another vet...SIGHHH
Your help is MUCH appreciated!!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Dazlin said:


> The brown sugar sounds like a good idea.!!
> Her soles look good, and white line looks good too. I'm keeping them clean and watching for anything, but her feet look really good as always. Farrier said no need to pack her hooves as of now, since we are giving Bute for any possible imflamation. After that we'll take it from there. She's walking almost normal today.
> I cut her feed a bit, and she only gets coastal hay.
> I really hope to figure out what happened to her, and if she acts that way again after the Bute, I'll probably go crazy, and then call another vet...SIGHHH
> Your help is MUCH appreciated!!


I don't know if you saw my earlier question: Is there any indication to your farrier or vet of navicular syndrome?


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Lisa, No one has said a word about navicular. I think if anything Windie's steps looked more like heel to toe, and short steps, but, honestly, I'm not ruling anything out. I'll make sure I see the farrier test the heel/frog area also for this, next time I see him. Windie will be off Bute in 2 days...I'm watching for anything...Thanks!!


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Update on Windie...She finished Bute . Last dose was almost 48 hrs ago. She's already showing signs of walking slow again. Started this afternoon, coming out of her stall. I called my farrier again, and he feels she's sore on both feet (from last diagnosis), and will come out if she does not improve. I personally can't tell if it's her feet anymore. Tomorrow I'm changing her feed gradually over to something I used to give her. It's a no starch, pony feed...just to rule out a feed problem. She only gets 1/4 scoop. She's at a very good weight though. My feed store sells somthing for pain..maybe I'll try that after I look at ingredients.
I'm also going to call a different vet if needed. So frustrated!!


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

There are somethings that have been mentioned that will help you figure out what is wrong. If she has laminitis, she can be made much less footsore by taping something hard over her foot so that her sole does not hit the ground. If you do this and she shows a significant improvement, then you have a real good clue.
With a pony, I would always assume founder and absolutely give her only the least rich hay you can find ans as little of that as will keep her gut going well.
Anything is possible but starting with what is typical is useful.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Dazlin said:


> Update on Windie...She finished Bute . Last dose was almost 48 hrs ago. She's already showing signs of walking slow again. Started this afternoon, coming out of her stall. I called my farrier again, and he feels she's sore on both feet (from last diagnosis), and will come out if she does not improve. I personally can't tell if it's her feet anymore. Tomorrow I'm changing her feed gradually over to something I used to give her. It's a no starch, pony feed...just to rule out a feed problem. She only gets 1/4 scoop. She's at a very good weight though. My feed store sells somthing for pain..maybe I'll try that after I look at ingredients.
> I'm also going to call a different vet if needed. So frustrated!!


To be honest, if she is still not walking - I'd still think laminitis v. abscess. At this point I might insist on blood tests for Cushings and possibly Lyme, but I might do Cushings first - we did both on our pony, but once the Cushings test came back super super high, it was evident that even if he was positive for Lyme it was the Cushings causing the problem. Other blood tests could be useful but hard to say how much $ to sink into labs at this point...

I would not "transition" slowly to a new feed. What is the current feed? And what is the new one? Just curious so we can check the NSC values and make sure they are not too high. If your pony is in good weight, I might just skip the grain altogether and/or give a handful of soaked, rinsed beet pulp if you feel she needs something.

I don't know anything about Coastal hay - but this article suggests it is usually twice as much sugar/starch as timothy ....so maybe you will need to soak it for now? http://www.equinemedsurg.com/ir3.html

(Admitting I don't know if that site is reliable).

I have to walk dogs...but I'd be thinking deep bedded stall, styrofoam booties, soaked hay, and a call to the vet. I agree that the fact that she is a pony is making me lean toward laminitis more than if she were a horse. As the old saying goes - there are only two types of ponies: those that have foundered, and those that will.


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Great article...I printed it out.
I'm going to feed store and look at comparison in feeds. As of now, I know the current feed is higher in protein, it's Gold Chance 12, but I only give 1/4 scoop. The starch free (don't have the name) was low in everything.
I had no clue coastal contained higher starch...it's considered the lightest/least protein around. More of a filler. I'm very confused at this point...so I need to think about everything, and make small changes. Will add more bedding, and farrier also suggested the packing for her soles, as some of you advised.
I'm confused about Cushings...she does not have a thick hairy coat, in fact, she getting her springtime slick coat, does'nt sweat excessivly, and hasn't been shifting her weight from foot to foot. If any changes don't show relief, I'll have to get all tests done..I'm not ruling anything out...Thanks so much!!!


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Hmmm...this chart from Southern States doesn't suggest the same thing:

http://www.southernstates.com/docs/eq/0405_mp_carbtables.pdf

Oat Hay 22.1%
Barley Hay 20.4%
Alfalfa Hay 11.3%
Bermudagrass Hay 13.6%
Grass Hay 13.8%

(Coastal is bermudagrass, right?)

It's terribly confusing, and the end result is that this is just an average anyway. MY hay might be much higher than 13.8% for grass hay, and yours might be lower than 13.6%. Unless you have your own hay tested it is impossible to know, but unfortunately most of us don't get hay from just one farmer in one big field and baled at the same time. 

I guess I'd probably call my vet and/or get a 2nd vet opinion. I lean toward laminitis because we just dealt with it; I could NOT get that pony out of his stall for 10 days. But the only thing that actually *worked* was treating the Cushings...so soaking hay and giving NSAIDs might give some temporary relief but not enough if the underlying cause is something metabolic.

That said, I guess it could just as likely be something else that I have never experienced. It doesn't sound like a virus if the pony isn't running a temperature. But it doesn't sound like an abscess at this point either. It could be...but the only horse I had with a prolonged "abscess" was my mini, and it was after her laminitic flare, so I assume there were multiple factors going on. (She did wind up blowing a huge abscess out of her coronary band, after about 2 weeks).

Do you have any pictures? Just curious because Cushings has a 'look' once you recognize it. I know now based on my experience with this pony that an older QH I boarded most definitely was Cushingoid as well. Only some of the symptoms, but recognizable after the fact....

Sorry I'm not much help!


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## levi1739 (Jul 25, 2003)

Dazlin said:


> Great article...I printed it out.
> I'm going to feed store and look at comparison in feeds. As of now, I know the current feed is higher in protein, it's Gold Chance 12, but I only give 1/4 scoop. The starch free (don't have the name) was low in everything.
> I had no clue coastal contained higher starch...it's considered the lightest/least protein around. More of a filler. I'm very confused at this point...so I need to think about everything, and make small changes. Will add more bedding, and farrier also suggested the packing for her soles, as some of you advised.
> I'm confused about Cushings...she does not have a thick hairy coat, in fact, she getting her springtime slick coat, does'nt sweat excessivly, and hasn't been shifting her weight from foot to foot. If any changes don't show relief, I'll have to get all tests done..I'm not ruling anything out...Thanks so much!!!


Dazlin, if your pony is suffering laminitis she probably shouldn't be given any grain or pelleted feed. Is there a reason she needs anything other than hay? 

Have fun, be safe

Jack


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

levi1739 said:


> Dazlin, if your pony is suffering laminitis she probably shouldn't be given any grain or pelleted feed. Is there a reason she needs anything other than hay?
> 
> Have fun, be safe
> 
> Jack


I was wondering that too but too lazy to go back and look at previous posts. Most ponies don't need any grain at all unless they have real trouble keeping weight on. My 13H POA is still fat and we have him down to 4 pounds of grass hay in a slow feeder bag twice a day. And he's still not losing.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

Dazlin said:


> Great article...I printed it out.
> I had no clue coastal contained higher starch...it's considered the lightest/least protein around. More of a filler. I'm very confused at this point...so I need to think about everything, and make small changes. Will add more bedding, and farrier also suggested the packing for her soles, as some of you advised.


Laminitis is not something that can wait. What it is as a breakdown of the connection between the hoof wall and the structures underneath. So, if left to continue to breakdown, the bones inside the foot either rotate or they sink. If it is not stopped, the bones can actually poke through the bottom of the sole. That is dangerous.

Also, packing the hoof might actuall increase the sole pressure. I'm not sure what the current thought is but I had a horse with chronic laminitis for years. He wore pads without any packing. I used to clear out the dirt that got between the pad and the sole because that dirt was enough to make him lame.

Also he got grass or oat hay only- no grain, no alfalafa. The minute he got anything else, his feet got sore.

If your pony has bilateral abscesses, then doing the above will not hurt. If it is laminitis, doing it could save her life.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

where I want to said:


> So, if left to continue to breakdown, the bones inside the foot either rotate or they sink. If it is not stopped, the bones can actually poke through the bottom of the sole. That is dangerous.


Actually, it's pretty much a death sentence unless you have amazing vets and unlimited resources.



where I want to said:


> Also, packing the hoof might actuall increase the sole pressure. I'm not sure what the current thought is but I had a horse with chronic laminitis for years. He wore pads without any packing. I used to clear out the dirt that got between the pad and the sole because that dirt was enough to make him lame.


This is where a farrier really needs to be involved. In my vet & farrier's opinion, the sole packing was always helpful and not harmful. BUT, that assumes many other things, like a reasonably good trim. I don't think you want pressure on the sole, per se, but something about making sure there is pressure on the frog is necessary to help support the coffin bone. The right material should conform to the hoof so that the weight is still being borne by the walls of the hoof, while providing support for the rest of the foot. Definitely out of my area of expertise at this point, but your farrier *should* know. 

I agree with above poster, though - none of these things will be detrimental if it's NOT laminitis, but are critical if it is.


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

I had forgotten that my horse had a frog support pad. One that supported under the frog but didn't press on the sole. 
But even without protective shoeing, simply covering the bottom of the foot with a taped on piece of styrofoam or putting on a boot will help relieve the pain.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

where I want to said:


> I had forgotten that my horse had a frog support pad. One that supported under the frog but didn't press on the sole.
> But even without protective shoeing, simply covering the bottom of the foot with a taped on piece of styrofoam or putting on a boot will help relieve the pain.


 
Back in the Dark Ages (when I was young) SOP for laminitis was heart bar shoes.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Irish Pixie said:


> Back in the Dark Ages (when I was young) SOP for laminitis was heart bar shoes.


It still is. (Of course there are many other options too like boots and wooden clogs...) My farrier made my pony custom heart bar shoes and glued them on. 

The styrofoam is definitely just a band-aid until something more technical can be applied.


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## Fetherhd (Aug 16, 2012)

I am thinking that I would only be giving good clean grass hay at this point until you figure out what is going on.


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

I checked at the feed store today, and everyone agrees that coastal (it is bermuda) is the lowest in everything. I would have to agree with the southernstates chart offthegrid sent.
I bought a natural pain relief STP, and the Safe n Lite feed, she used to be on.
Please know that I do not overfeed grain, and give less than recommended amount for nutrition purpose only. I live in Florida, and theres hardly any grass most of the year. Some will start coming up now, and coastal hay in small amounts 2 - 3x a day.
I worked on Windie today...she walks heel to toe, very carefully...looks like both front. However, she was hesitant to give me one foot to clean, but after a few tries, she gave it. Still, no heat, no swelling, and no resistance to anything I do. She walks all around the pastures and I haven't seen any laminitis stance, like the leaning back. On the cement center isle, she won't back up, and turning her around is difficult. So I had to make a big circle to get her lined up with the cross tie...sooo
weird! 
I'm not ruling out laminitis, or a possible abcess, although I'm still not seeing lameness in only one foot. It's hard to make any judgement at this time since she's not giving any clear clues...farrier baffled too.
As far as eliminating grain, I will , as soon as I know what's going on. For now, I'll be making a slow switch over to the lite no starch, and need it to add the pain killer. It's more like a handful. Farrier advised leaving her feed as is for now, but I'm lightening it up for myown gut feeling. Also, all your advise here has helped tremendously!! I soaked her legs and feet, and rubbed her down with linamints, and mineral ice. I'll give the pain killer another day or so...then will have to call a vet, or my farrier...but other than the walking weird, she acts so normal.


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## Nevnarial (Mar 5, 2008)

I have no experience with hoof problems like the folks on here but your last post reminded me of my gelding. This is just a thought but my boy has tweaked his back and shoulders before and walked on the cement like you describe. He was slow on dirt but really became slow/reluctant on cement or gravel. Hard to turn him around and didn't like backing up. Not soreness in his hooves or any signs of a problem.Didn't stand different either. Chiropractor came out and adjusted him and he was noticeably better and improved from there. Just another thought.....I hope you can get to the bottom of it quickly! I know it is frustrating.


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## 2horses (Jul 19, 2004)

I've been thinking back/hip/shoulder problems from the beginning, but kept my mouth shut waiting to see if it was her feet. Bute would have helped with any muscle soreness too. Did your vet palpate her body at all? Have you?


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

2Horses, This has been going on for over 3 weeks now. The vet was here on the 4th, and he did NOT check her body. He went straight to her feet, and ruled out laminitis, and said "possible" abcess.
I put her on Bute for a week, and it helped tremendously. Now, she's off it, and symptoms are back. I dont know if the Bute would've helped pain for an abcess?? But it helped something.
I'm not seeing anything wrong with her feet or legs, she just walks very gingerly, but stands normal.
My farrier is coming here...again, and we will make a final decision as whether to call another vet, or if he can make and treat a diagnosis.


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## dholloway (Apr 9, 2013)

Is she out on spring fresh grass? I have a pony I can not put out in the fields in spring.  Almost foundered her, she walked real slow and neck would get really thick.


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## farmgal (Nov 12, 2005)

I had a horse that if trimmed too often became very sore for months. I changed her trimming to about 3 times a year. She never got sore again. Her hooves grew very slow. I sure hope your little guy gets better soon. Its terrible when you cant diagnose the problem. 

I never trust a vet of a farrier, do your own research. I had another horse that had all the physical symptoms of lamanitis but not in bad pain, yet. I didnt know what laminitis was at the time, never had to deal with it. Flat feet, slight tender on stones, flaring heals etc. 

They both told me, oh its her breed or she was arena horse, her feet arent tough. Which was all crap, because I rode her 15 miles a day 3-4 days a week. But I had to keep easy boots on her front feet at certain areas with rocks. Kept asking why she is so tender, I gave her all the hoove treatment meds and one day years later she went lame. She was an easy keeper horse, fattened up if you didnt ride her. she lamed right up. After much research the vet and fairer was wrong. Simple grass founder. I took her completely off grass for 4 months, she was a totally different horse. Her hooves grew to healthy hard as rock, tight, no flares no pealiness etc.. I think the vet wanted me to just keep calling her. This horses whole attitude changed too. She was a jumper, not hesitant but boy did she have more stamina. Vet and farrier were useless in this case. I got more information from long time ranch owners who have gone through 100's of horses. They told me right away what her deal was. Meanwhile my horse suffered for no reason.


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Thank-you all again!!. I can relate to what to what your saying farmgal.
The latest update is, the farrier was out again, and still can't pinpoint a specific problem.
We called on 2 vets, and both feel since there are no specific clues, my choices are to run a battery of costly tests, or wait to see if symptoms become more pronounced.
I have her on STP, and she seems somewhat better. I can say, she's no worse, no abcess, no heat, no swelling, and walking better...could be the S T P I have her on...don't know till I take her off. I have not had her feet trimmed since 5 weeks ago, and farrier said to leave them be for now. I honestly don't know if somethings up with the trimming...I've had the same farrier for 8 years?? He's been as concerned as me, and also called a vet to discuss Windies symptoms, and even came out without charge. As for now, it's a waiting game...hoping things will get better...Windie is the sweetest blessing ever!!


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

Did I miss the part where radiographs were taken?


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## Waiting2Retire (Jan 14, 2013)

Dec and Jan I had my vet come out to figure out what was wrong with my mare- she was off on front right at trot in circles. neither time could my vet find anything, other boarders were rolling eyes at me, saying "ehh, shes a thoroughbred."
So I researched and called a local vet/chiropractor to come out. She spent 3 hours with my horse- watched my daughter ride, looked at her as an entire animal, not just a front right shoulder and leg. Turns out she has an old injury to her back left hip joint, and this caused her to overcompensate on her front right. she gave her a full body massage, streched her out, put her on muscle relaxers to give the old injury a chance to loosen up and remember its correct working position. Cost of everything she did minus the pills was cheaper than my vets 2 visits.
If you have a chiropractor in your area, I would call her/him out. She may just be out of alignment.


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks waitingtoretire...My daughter and I have considered the possibility of something Windie may have thrown out of whack, and like you said, maybe she's over compensating. I had an equine massage therapist a few years ago....I could give her a call. I had used her to help my other horse with a vertabre issue. She was awsome! She also taught me what to do, and how to continue the stretches, and massage.
Windie has not been ridden in 2 years (my daughter is away in college), so, basically she is a backyard pony. However, she runs and bucks at her daughter (Breezie). Of course she hasn't done that lately. Oh well, all I can say, is this is not over, and I will continue to get any help she needs...Thanks everyone!


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Just want to up date on Windie...Another Vet will be here tomorrow.
Ill start a new Thread called, Update on Windie. Hopefully We will get answers...and I wanted to let all of you know since you have offered great advice, and concern...Thanks so much!!


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## Dazlin (Nov 26, 2007)

Ok Ill put up a post...update on Windie...Vet was here


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