# Hairsheep tail docking?



## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Do any of you dock your hairsheep tails? If so, what method do you use?


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## jklloyd (Mar 28, 2011)

Most tails are naturally short. I have never heard of it being done.


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## VA Shepherd (Dec 26, 2010)

I've only got a few with hairy tails, and I don't dock them; never had a problem. But if I did, I'd use the rubber bands, same as I do for the woolly guys.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

The two Katahdin lambs I have now, one has a docked tail, the other not. So it is up to you. 
Since you do not sheer them, I would not worry about it. ;O)


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

My study of the Sheep101 site tells me that you do not need to dock the tails of hair sheep, because they have no wool on their tails to gather feces and make a breeding place for flies... thereby causing flystrike.

Therefore, I guess if it is a hairsheep and you dock the tail, you would be doing so for fashion rather than function.


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## PNP Katahdins (Oct 28, 2008)

We have docked our Katahdin ewe and wether lambs up until this year, with rubber bands. The few ram lambs sold for breeding stock were left long because some buyers prefer that. We were just used to it with the wool sheep. 

This year we aren't docking the Kats at all, just to see how they do. All of our purchased foundation stock (six ewes) plus the rams (seven) have come undocked and done fine, so I guess we may keep leaving them long.

Flystrike on the wool lambs is no fun but we've never had it with the Katahdins.

Like color, breeder preference to my thinking.

Peg


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Thanks for the replies all. I've always left tails long and intact on my Katahdins and Dorper crosses. However, last Spring I noticed quite a few of the kids that showed them for 4-H had docked tails for show appearance. I experimented with it on a ewe lamb the other day to see how it turns out. I used a band. Thanks again.


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## plowjockey (Aug 18, 2008)

Up at the spring lamb sale, this week, I noticed that many of the Kats, appeared to have "bobbed" tails.

It looked like they may have been banded about half way up the tail, not like regular docking.

I figured they may have done if for cosmetic reasons. Made mine look "scruffy"


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I experimented with it on a ewe lamb the other day to see how it turns out


Banding works fine.

It's just not necessary with hair sheep


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Banding works fine.
> 
> It's just not necessary with hair sheep


Bearfoot, 
How high do you push the band up the tail head to get a good, clean docking. My band spreaders will keep me about 1/2" away from the point of attachment by design so that's where I put it. I've seen dome dorper crosses though that looked as though they had an "inny" (like a bellybutton) and wondered if there had been some cutting or surgery to get it like that.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

francismilker said:


> Bearfoot,
> How high do you push the band up the tail head to get a good, clean docking. My band spreaders will keep me about 1/2" away from the point of attachment by design so that's where I put it. I've seen dome dorper crosses though that looked as though they had an "inny" (like a bellybutton) and wondered if there had been some cutting or surgery to get it like that.


I would not band them so they have an inny.
Band them long enough to cover their privates, no higher up. Other wise you will have prolapse problems.


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## thequeensblessing (Mar 30, 2003)

I agree, extreme tail docking has a direct correlation to prolapse. I like the fact that our katahdins and Dorpers don't need to be docked. I also think, although not much, the longer tail does add to the overall weight when selling at market by the pound, especially when selling many at one time.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> How high do you push the band up the tail head to get a good, clean docking


Lift the tail and look at the underside.
You'll see a pink wedge of bare skin.

It's called the Caudal Fold:










(Image from http://www.infovets.com/books/smrm/C/C166.htm)



Don't go any higher than the point, and as others said, leave enough to totally cover the genitals.
Personally, I leave about an inch more than what the picture is showing

I used to dock all of mine, but now I don't bother.
I've never had an incidence of flystrike


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## Knowon Special (Sep 7, 2013)

Ok, I'm going to weigh in on this topic ... mostly because I've just had to put down a VERY expensive Dorper ewe (registered and paid $600 - which for ME is almost a year's worth of saving up - retired and fixed income here) with a horrific prolapsed anus. Let's be clear, she was NOT a "show lamb" ... however, the farm from which she came prepped all their lambs for the possibility of being in the show ring, meaning that their tails were scooped out, the *entire* tail AND one or two of the vertebrae off the end of her spine, likely when she was just a few days or a couple of weeks old.

Tail docking on HAIR sheep is totally and unequivocally *unnecessary*. To dock a HAIR sheep's tail is the equivalent of the (now outlawed) Chinese practice of Foot Binding - wrapping a baby girl's feet to keep them small; permanently crippling and deforming the feet for life! Or maybe the hot nailing of a Tennessee Walking Horses hooves to "enhance" their gait ... or the breaking of their tail to make sure it stands up and "flows" ... or the (crippling) built up and weighted shoes for their front feet?? Oh wait! I've got it, how about mutilating the clitoris of 9 year old little girls?? Docking a HAIR sheep's tail is done today mostly by show farms - and it is nothing less than mutilation for the sake of aesthetics.

I could understand it if the tails of hair sheep caused a problem, but bottom line - they do not. The main reason that WOOL sheep's tails are docked is to reduce the incidence of Fly Strike, and yes, it is justified. However, a sheep's tail is there for a purpose - The sheep's tail does *not* interfere with breeding (I mean, _REALLY_, people? Just how many centuries did God have these creatures breeding without man's help and they did just fine!). Primarily it protects the anus, vulva and udder from weather extremes. To some extent, sheep use their tail to scatter their feces.

The point being that in those instances when tails are docked, there is a right way and a VERY wrong way. The right way is to ONLY dock it short enough but leave long enough to COVER the anus and vulva (for ewes) ... this means that even after docking, when the tail is laying flat down, it still can COVER (protect) the genitals. 

The problem is with those who "show" their lambs/sheep. *Extreme* short docking, where it looks like they took an ice-cream scoop and sliced out the tail down into the body, is VERY common in the *hair* sheep show ring and they have NO legitimate reason for this. The specious justification is that it helps show the rear muscling of the lamb, better meat (sort of like a body builder "flexing") and makes the top line look more level, the legs more square, what CRAP! Why don't you just give the sheep injections of Botox?? Or a Silicon boob job??. It is also argued that it makes it _easier _for the judges to see the muscling and attributes of the rear end, straight legs, top line and in the rams, the testicles. By *ALL* means, let's make it EASIER for a judge to do their lame-ass job by mutilating and carving up the animals they are looking at! 

So, these "breeders/showmen" are willing to mutilate, to CARVE out the whole ass-end of a sheep so some jerk-off judge can get a better look??
Disgusting!

Don't get me wrong, I love showing animals, but NOT making them go through life threatening mutilation for aesthetics! Can you say increased instance of RECTAL PROLAPSE?? No? Well how about, in ewes, increased instance of Uterine Prolapse?? Certain types of cancer of their cervix, or other diseases from the exposure/mutilation of genitalia? 

And what is truly obnoxious by these "people" who boast about their "bettering the breed" and their "paramount concern for their animals and teaching young people how to properly care for livestock ..." and then they engage in "_extreme_ short show-docking" which is *NOT* just taking the entire tail off but ALSO removing "one or two of the vertebra from the end of the spine" (quote below) ... in other words, why don't some of you guys just BEND OVER and let ME scoop out the last one or two vertebrae from the end of THEIR spine! ----! I'll even use topical anesthetic - 2% lidocaine and give them a tetanus shot afterwards! 

https://awionline.org/content-types...terly/short-docking-sheep-cruel-fad-show-ring
_"The practice of short docking for the "show circuit" is differentâthe entire tail is cut off right at the body wall, along with one or two vertebrae of the spine. It is well known within the sheep industry that short docking is an unnecessary practice that can cause serious health problems, pain and suffering. Seven national veterinary, scientific and animal science organizations recommend the practice of short docking be stopped."​_
Here is another research paper:
http://sheep.osu.edu/2008/06/20/tail-length-of-docked-lambs-and-rectal-prolapse/ which reads in part:
_"The American Farm Bureau Federation, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the National Lamb Feeders Association, the American Association of Small Ruminant Practitioners, the National Institute for Animal Agriculture, and United States Animal Health Association all have position statements or resolutions recommending âthat lambsâ tails be docked at the level of the distal end of the caudal tail fold.â
The authors conclude that âDocking lambs at the site where the caudal folds on the underside of the tail attach to the tail *significantly* decreases the incidence of rectal prolapse to negligible levels. *Ultrashort* docking is a cosmetic fad promoted in the show ring that compromises the health and well-being of sheep. The practice should be abandoned.â "_​
Ok, so much for my ranting, it doesn't bring back my ewe ... she didn't deserve to endure the suffering, the pain inflicted on her when her tail was mutilated and she sure as hell didn't deserve to have a rectal prolapse, going through the stress of vets, medications & procedures to try and help/fix her ... to no avail. She was *not* "coughing", she was *not* on a "feed lot diet", it was *not* "dry weather" with a lot of dust or dusty hay ... in other words, this was _DONE TO_ her by those she trusted to take care of her.

Katahdin owners, by and large, understand that their animals do NOT need to have their tails docked, I will be SO happy when Dorper owners grow half a brain and realize this as well! 

Don't bother replying to this if all you are going to do is chide me for being intolerant and not "understanding" all the intricacies required to establish the high paying reputation of a "show winning" flock, champion bloodlines, herd sires and ewes, or forget it if you think to shame me into backing off one whit! I am NOT an "animal rights" extremist ... I do not believe that *all *animal research is torture (some *definitely* is - perfume into cocker spaniel eyes? yes!) My brother-in-law is a childhood diabetic and would not have the gift of insulin were it not for animal testing. 

But THIS has *nothing* to do with research, *nothing* to do with saving human lives and _everything_ to do with aesthetics, artificially mutilating an animal to enhance it's show appearance. So, if all you are interested in is the reputation of champion bloodlines, then YOU need to have some cosmetic surgery done to YOUR genitals ... might I suggest ... piercing or perhaps ... short-docking ...


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## nobrabbit (May 10, 2002)

We neither dock nor band. Less stress on the babies and it does not improve the price in our area so we see no reason to.


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## manolito (Apr 7, 2013)

We don't dock nor band our herd. Barbedos or Black Belly American as you prefer.


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## Knowon Special (Sep 7, 2013)

Thank you for sharing your herd practice  or rather NON-practice 

I appreciate knowing that there are others who are either A.) just as concerned as I am over this unnecessary mutilation for aestethics, B.) are as interested as I am in NOT doing more work than is really required and/or C.) figure that there are always going to be goober sheep owners but it doesn't mean that *I* have to be one of them  and that I'm not alone LOL


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## manolito (Apr 7, 2013)

I could never figure why a Heeler had its tail docked and a Border Collie didn't.

Search as I may I found no real answer. I met a very old Australian shepherd and asked him if he knew. His answer was only for his station where he worked but the Heeler is almost identical to a dingo especially at distance. He said they bobbed the tail so they knew which ones to shoot at. If it had a tail it was dingo shoot. If bobbed our dog let it be. Is it true I don't know but it was the only explanation that made any sense and I see no reason to dock a heelers tail. 

Always remember if it works for you fine but to criticize another for what works for them is stepping on sacred ground. 

The hardest lesson I learned was the Ewe was worth $85.00 and the vet cost $200 to arrive at the front gate. This required I either learn how to doctor common problems or dispatch Ewes economics drove that. The moral issue was hard to accept.


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