# LGD Puppies for Sale 1/2 Kangal/Anatolian/Maremma



## Goatress

To experienced working homes only (due to their intense guarding inclination, strength and power I usually do not recommend these as first time LGD owner dogs although I have made one exception).

This is a repeat, *proven* cross (no ifs, no maybes, no unknowns...these pups _guard_), health guarantee, guaranteed to guard, several references available. To select homes which would warrant it, included in $600 price is $50 certificate to custom hand made protection collar made to your specifications from Coban Collars (www.cobancollars.com). This only goes to operations which I feel would warrant one due to large (ie wolf, bear or lion) predator situations.

These will be tall, leggy, short haired dogs. Two white like sire. Rest are Kangal marked in a variety of hues of mink, chocolate, tan, brown, some with white trim (ie they'll resemble what most think of as an Anatolian).

Sire: Pak. Bred, born on range on huge sheep operation out of Elko. 33". He and his brother are two of the most devoted, sweet, yet utterly formidable and fierce guard dogs I own.
Dam: Elmas. My powerhouse Kangal. Bred by Ed Bernell, MT. Intense protector, super athletic. Both parents guard full time here.

Two males and one female already reserved. She had 9 - 5 girls, 4 boys. One white boy, one white girl. 

I held back ELK from her last litter of this cross. He is now over 34", and one of the most natural, devoted LGD's I've ever owned. So I can vouch for these pups' guarding ability. Due to the fact that they are basically 3/4 Turkish breeds, they really guard and act more like Kangals than anything. The sweet demeanor of the Maremma does come through strongly, and I love that.

Photos of past litters, including adult photos of pups from this cross are plastered all over my website including pricing, what's included, references, etc. I'm putting more photos up today. Deposit of $300 holds a pup. As all my dogs are here, they'll be started on sheep and goats, raised in a pack environment.

http://www.lgdnevada.com


----------



## Dusky Beauty

Cool cross. I'm a Pyr devotee but I always admire quality working dogs. 

Winnemucca eh? I'm a Lowry graduate and lived out Grass Valley near Sonoma Ranch once upon a time. The rural world is so small sometimes


----------



## pygmybabies

They look Awesome!


----------



## Grazer

These are going to be some really handsome looking dogs!
I hope the puppies will find wonderful new homes when it's time for them to go.
I've also seen the pictures of your beautiful new Spanish and Pyrenean mastiff pups; they're just gorgeous. I can already tell that they'll turn into stunning adults.
I was wondering if you could tell us if it's very difficult and very expensive to import puppies from a reputable breeder in Europe?


----------



## KSALguy

i really love your Mastiffs, when i get set back up on a ranch i wanna get atleast one of your SpanishMastiffs,


----------



## Goatress

I spoke with three clients today who have pups from the first and second litters of this Kangal cross, they did not have enough good things to say about how good these dogs are, with goats, kids, sheep....totally bombproof. Made me feel good to hear they are keeping critters safe from predators and totally solid around people, no viciousness, no shyness, just really good guarding dogs, and big and they can run, everyone attests to how athletic they turn out. What can I say, the parents are incredible dogs. I'm glad they passed it on. OK off my soapbox on this one...lol.

Hope to have successful breedings of my SM girls this year and litters on the ground this spring and fall.

Xanto is in with Ibra now and giving it his best. He keeps herding her into the goat shelter like thats her concubine and she may not leave it...lol. 

I live just a few miles of Sonoma Ranch. I assume you know who the owners are too? The makers of Coban Collars live on the other side of Sonoma Ranch. Lot of history in this valley.


----------



## Goatress

Grazer said:


> These are going to be some really handsome looking dogs!
> I was wondering if you could tell us if it's very difficult and very expensive to import puppies from a reputable breeder in Europe?


Depends on each situation, I have brought them over for considerably under $1,000 and paid up to $2500 (that was more than one pup). Usually go through a shipper who works with the breeder and the buyer. But finally got them all here on same day, just different carriers. Most of the paperwork is on their end, getting the vaccinations and vet clearance, etc.

It is worth it if you seriously want a particular dog and you can't find what you are looking for here. In the case of SM's and PM's, there are of course more options over in EU than there are here. I have had great luck with my imports, the trip is hard on them, but they bounce back quickly, considering, and adapt. So is it difficult? Can be but usually not. This last one for me was hardest of all the ones I've done. Expensive? Can be but considering what some people charge here for the same quality or less, can actually be cheaper in some cases. The most expensive SM pup I know of in EU was priced at $1750 in US dollars. Cheaper than what some breeders charge here. I could have gotten pups from one man for 600 Euros. That's less than a $1000 US. 

Most pups in EU go for about 1,000 Euro, and again some even less, I was given price breaks because now many breeders there know me and know what I am trying to do here and they were very kind and generous with me, knowing the pups would have excellent working home.


----------



## Grazer

Goatress said:


> Depends on each situation, I have brought them over for considerably under $1,000 and paid up to $2500 (that was more than one pup). Usually go through a shipper who works with the breeder and the buyer. But finally got them all here on same day, just different carriers. Most of the paperwork is on their end, getting the vaccinations and vet clearance, etc.
> 
> It is worth it if you seriously want a particular dog and you can't find what you are looking for here. In the case of SM's and PM's, there are of course more options over in EU than there are here. I have had great luck with my imports, the trip is hard on them, but they bounce back quickly, considering, and adapt. So is it difficult? Can be but usually not. This last one for me was hardest of all the ones I've done. Expensive? Can be but considering what some people charge here for the same quality or less, can actually be cheaper in some cases. The most expensive SM pup I know of in EU was priced at $1750 in US dollars. Cheaper than what some breeders charge here. I could have gotten pups from one man for 600 Euros. That's less than a $1000 US.
> 
> Most pups in EU go for about 1,000 Euro, and again some even less, I was given price breaks because now many breeders there know me and know what I am trying to do here and they were very kind and generous with me, knowing the pups would have excellent working home.


Thank you for all that info.
It's true it can be very hard on the puppies and I'm hoping if the right shipper is found that this can be avoided.
When my CO puppy was flying with me to U.S. he didn't took it very well, but then again he always hated crates so that of course made his whole trip even more stressful.
A week later he luckily did bounce back, but I was worried sick about him during the trip and until he started acting normal again.

I would like to have another CO one day, and like you said there are far more options in Europe (for most breeds). Puppies from proven parents that cost 4 times less than what I'd have to pay here.
On top of that the quality of available CO's in U.S. seems to be pretty low..they're often only show dogs with too soft or too unstable temperaments and often inbred because there are not that many of them around. 

And of course not to mention the fact that U.S. is a huge country so puppies would have to get shipped in most cases anyway.
I've never bought a puppy without visiting them and their parents in real life first, but I'm happy to hear that it can be done in a successful way. 
So it's something to think about.

Thank you for all your tips


----------



## Grazer

And I also forgot to add that ever since I found about your dogs I thought myself it's too bad you're not also breeding CO's lol
Your dogs have such great temperament and are very impressive. I wish CO breeders in U.S. would take an example from you in one way or another.


----------



## horsepoor21

Grazer > There's a CO breeder just south of me by Miles City ,MT. I have just spoken with her thru e-mail and drooled over her website but I'm hoping to get a puppy from her in the future , she does not have the attitude like some of the other CO breeders in the US . If you'd like her website ,PM me !


----------



## horsepoor21

Oh , never mind . LOL Pretty sure the breeder against vaccines is the breeder I'm speaking of .


----------



## Grazer

Well thanks anyway 
I'd like to get a second CO sometime before my current puppy turns 3 years so luckily I still got plenty of time left to either find a good breeder here or import a puppy.

And whoever buys Goatress's 1/2 Kangal/Anatolian/Maremma puppies is going to be one lucky owner.
From what I can tell, she has some of the finest LGD's in U.S. and perhaps in the world too as the dogs who can successfully guard their stock from the North American bears, wolves and cougars are top notch, no doubt about it


----------



## Goatress

Oh trust me there are plenty others out there with top notch dogs. I have been blessed with some good stock, my Pyrs and my Kangal and my "Mafia Brothers" (Anatolian/Maremma boys) are really solid dogs. The crosses have been tremendous. I am trying to get a Cattlemens' association to just take the rest of this litter up in bad wolf area, that is where these dogs could excel. Those guys up in Wallowa County they are just giving up without even trying dogs. I think they should try before they poo pooh it. They want me to come up there and give a talk at some big meeting they are having. I can't get away too easily to do that but would love to.

CO's I have never been around but there is a guy back East with some great dogs that are the Sarplannics. NJ I think. He wrote me. Very much concerned about the show ring corruption of the Sarplannic in the USA, and he goes direct to the source and talks to people there in EU, and gets dogs out of the camps, real working strain. I have to find his E mail and name, I am blanking out on his name at the moment. He and I talked at length on the phone. He's basically trying to do with the Sar's what I'm trying to do with the SM, PM, etc. No frills, no foo foo, no lah dee dah exotic pets, just work, all guard, all the time, and breeding for the guarding instinct... In fact Goat Rancher did an article on him once, sometime back. 

I'm too tired to look for it tonight when I find his name Grazer and the rest of you I will post it here. 

I think anyone buying an LGD from someone needs to really know if they will back their dogs up 100% or not, and go from there. I cull my litters, if anything amiss, bad bite, what ever, it is humanely put to sleep. I don't need bad dogs out there my reputation depends on quality dogs and I was on the phone yesterday, with four clients, who have this cross (Kangal) and they bent my ears with effusive praise, how good the dogs were, predator kills, etc. blah blah, it made me feel good to know the pups are doing a good job for people. For me that is what it is all about, period.


----------



## Grazer

Thanks Goatress, yes there are definitely some good Sarplaninac breeders here in U.S.
Like the SharplaninacUSA and Sharakennel and a few others.
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that most of those breeders are people who are originally from former Yugoslavia; often they grew up with those dogs and have worked with Sarplaninac dogs for generations.
Some of my family members have had Sarplaninac dogs throughout the years.
They're stunning and truly impressive dogs; very good at their job. Definitely one of my favorite breeds in the world.
And they are really a working dog type.... for instance if someone doesn't have a livestock for them to protect they can get restless. That's why they make such good LGD's


----------



## Goatress

Grazer said:


> Thanks horsepoor21.
> I know of 2 CO breeders in Montana, both of them want 2500 $ and up for a puppy.
> Neither one of them makes it clear on their websites whether the dogs they breed with are related or not (as I'm very against inbreeding) and whether the parents happen to be HD free or not..
> Since none of the kennels have working dogs (working LGD's very quickly show signs of HD as they can not keep up with healthy dogs), radiographs are necessary and the only way to determine if the parents have HD or not.
> On top of that, one of those kennels seems to be against vaccination of their dogs which is not wise in my opinion, as they're breeders and are actually selling their puppies for a lot of money.
> 
> Sorry, I'm off my soapbox now lol
> Anyway I'd still like to hear something about the breeder you talked to, so feel free to PM me


I would give anyone like this an extremely wide berth. Overpriced, refuse to check for HD, don't vaccinate? RED FLAG RED FLAG... These people are obviously in to this to make money with minimal outlay of cash on the essentials that any breeder of integrity would put out on. If more people refused to support unethical breeders like this there'd be fewer of them around. Wonder what their kennel mortality rate is on Parvo....something I'm sure they sweep under the rug.


----------



## Cannon_Farms

"Neither one of them makes it clear on their websites whether the dogs they breed with are related or not (as I'm very against inbreeding) and whether the parents happen to be HD free or not.."

Im not going to hijack the thread but did want to say, every constant breed standard is achieved through line breeding. There are folks that go overboard with it but the fastest way to make pet quality dogs is to not know what your dogs produce and haphazardly breed from random stock. 
These lgd often are top notch at their jobs (and believe me if I wanst against flying pups and it wasnt so far I would want one of these pups) even though they are crosses where line bred somewhere in the past to get the particular instinct.
Its why wolves look like wolves, meercats look like meercats, lions look like lions and so on, it is the way nature intended. By the time the genetic material is overused another critter comes of age and kicks the old guy to the curb.
If you would like to discus this further I would be happy to in a thread or pm.


----------



## BarbadosSheep

Grazer said:


> Thanks horsepoor21.
> I know of 2 CO breeders in Montana, both of them want 2500 $ and up for a puppy.
> Neither one of them makes it clear on their websites whether the dogs they breed with are related or not (as I'm very against inbreeding) and whether the parents happen to be HD free or not..
> Since none of the kennels have working dogs (working LGD's very quickly show signs of HD as they can not keep up with healthy dogs), radiographs are necessary and the only way to determine if the parents have HD or not.
> On top of that, one of those kennels seems to be against vaccination of their dogs which is not wise in my opinion, as they're breeders and are actually selling their puppies for a lot of money.
> 
> Sorry, I'm off my soapbox now lol
> Anyway I'd still like to hear something about the breeder you talked to, so feel free to PM me


I know of MANY breeders who do not vaccinate. Even though I can't do that (I think I live in the Parvo capital of the world), it can be done if titers are done to insure that the dogs actually do have immunity. Vaccines are WAY overused. I mean look at it like this. If we humans vaccinate our children for polio, whooping cough, and other things only when they are children and those vaccines last for the entire life of that child, why should dog vaccines be any different? It used to be that vaccines were not given yearly to dogs. It was done to pups, and then not done again or titer levels were checked. But then someone got the bright idea that they could get a lot of $$ if they convince us that our pets need vaccines every single year for their entire life. Anyway....I just wanted to say that not going along with routine vaccines is not necessarily a red flag for a breeder. It really depends on how they are managing those routine illnesses and exposures. 

As far as HD goes....I feel like any of these giant breeds should be x rayed and certified HD free prior to breeding....working lines or not. Many dogs have a small degree of HD that may not affect them, but the disease can still be passed on to their offspring. I know it's not as common in these LGD breeds, but it DOES happen. Pups should only come from parents who have been certified HD free. And if those people are charging $2500 for pups, they certainly can afford to have those xrays done! Just my opinion.


----------



## Goatress

:hijacked::hijacked::hijacked::hijacked::hijacked::hijacked::hijacked::hijacked:

Getting back to my puppies......

Here are photos of what the farts look like when they grow up and eat wolves lol. Elk is mine, below, the white one; he is pushing 35". Amazing dog. Zeb the darker pup lives on a ranch in OR.

well diddly, it won't let me post pics. Later then I guess?


----------



## Goatress




----------



## Goatress

There....that was Zeb, this is Elk:


----------



## BarbadosSheep

Zeb is gorgeous!!


----------



## Grazer

@ BarbadosSheep: Different people do different things; I personally would never buy a puppy from a breeder that never vaccinates their dogs, not even the puppy vaccines and rabies.
Also, the benefits of vaccination rely to an extent on herd immunity...
Yes over vaccination isn't good, and there are also dogs that shouldn't be vaccinated for health reasons; however healthly dogs should be vaccinated to prevent these diseases coming back and to protect the dogs that can not be vaccinated.

I'm speaking about breeders in general here: IMO any breeder who breeds large dogs and doesn't xrays the dam & sire for HD, but yet want $2500 and up for their pups is not someone I'd want puppies from.

So we'll just agree to disagree about the whole vaccination thing, *cause I don't want to hijack this thread * 

@ Goatress: Zeb is such stunning dog and Elk is going to be enormous!
Btw, at what month are your crosses done growing at height?


----------



## BarbadosSheep

Grazer, don't get me wrong...I vaccinate my dogs. I just don't over vaccinate them. I am too afraid of Parvo to skip vaccines. there is a litter of Anatolian Shepherd pups coming up soon that I'd LOVE to get a pup from but the breeder is a "no vaccine" person so I am passing on them. And I agree....if someone wants that much for pups, they darn sure should be xraying their breeding stock. So we are on the same page.


Back to our regularly scheduled topic.


----------



## Goatress

Sire is 33".
Elk is I guess 9 months going on 10, going on 35".
Will fill out for another year, two years even....and perhaps grow taller.
He is exceptionally large most of the litter averages 32-34".
For people with wolf problems these dogs are what you'd need. And not one of them, either, lol.....don't get me started on 'not enough dogs' topic we'll be here all day....sigh....


----------



## Grazer

Elk is going to be a huge dog alright..I wonder just how big his teeth will be.

Haha yes, I've read one of those topics.
One dog as a flock guardian against a pack of wolves is just plain madness...anyone who has wolf problems should know better.
Especially with the huge Canadian timber wolves in some areas, who can be around 32&#8211;36 inches tall. 
No dog is a match for a wolf of course, but wolves by nature don't want to take risks and end up injured so when they see 4-6 or even more of those enormous LGD's like yours, they'd go find themselves an easier meal.

@ BarbadosSheep: no you're absolutely right, we are on the same page; over-vaccinating isn't healthy but "no vaccine at all" is no way to go either


----------



## spinandslide

I browsed your site Goatress and can I say what a great program you have there..loved the pictures and information on your dogs.


----------



## Goatress

barbadossheep said:


> zeb is gorgeous!!


thanks......


----------



## motdaugrnds

I'm hurt that I do not live close enough to get one of your pups.  I've been looking for quite awhile now for a nice guardian dog with short hair as our summers are hot/humid.


----------



## Rock

motdaugrnds said:


> I'm hurt that I do not live close enough to get one of your pups.  I've been looking for quite awhile now for a nice guardian dog with short hair as our summers are hot/humid.


 Something I just very recently found out about called U-ship, all the hassle of the airlines, temp restrictions breed restriction Blah Blah Blah. It just gets old when you have to do it all the time, not to mention the time it takes to get to the airport, go thru all the hoops and get home.
I just today found a guy licensed in Minnesota (the state where I'm shipping one of my most recent pups) makes the trip from near me, to home at least 1 time a week. Has delivered over 100 live animals since Christmas, while his bid was a couple dollars more ($7.00) He lives just outside of Minneapolis, where the pup is going. Under $250 the site is full of transport shippers. They bid on your delivery, you pick whoever suits you best.


----------



## motdaugrnds

Rock, Pennsylvania is not that far from me. Will you share the name and email of that who picks up and delivers pups? I'ld like to talk with him. Please do it PM if you think that best.


----------



## Rock

motdaugrnds said:


> Rock, Pennsylvania is not that far from me. Will you share the name and email of that who picks up and delivers pups? I'ld like to talk with him. Please do it PM if you think that best.


 This is the place, there are many TSP's from full time animal haulers to long haul truck drivers that just happen to be on the exact route your using.
Check the site out first read all the terms ect make sure it is something you are comfortable with 
(Like my first issue was I'm not paying someone I dont know up front. I pay U-ship they hold the money in account and give you a code. When your shipment is received you give the driver the code, they put it in and get paid. That i'm ok with, and the driver knows the money is there for getting the job done)


http://www.uship.com/


----------



## motdaugrnds

Thank you for the url.


----------

