# Selling Meat Online



## JustinRobinsREO (Jan 2, 2013)

I know that each state has their own rules and regulations, but I am having the hardest time finding info out on this topic.

If I were to raise a pig, goat, sheep, or cow and I wanted to sell parts (not whole or half), but say like sausage, chops, or roasts online. Could I do that if the animal was slaughtered and processed at a USDA certified slaughter house?

I have seen websites that sell meat by the pound and they appear to be the farm and not a butcher shop. Just wondering if anyone could shed some light on this matter. 

Hope this make sense. Thank you!


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

A neighbor of ours owns a meat locker. He sells things like jerky online. I don't think it'd be easy for unless you owned a meat locker of some sort. I don't generally like jerky but this stuff is unbelievable! They give great Christmas gifts. 

http://elmwoodmeatlocker.com/


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## cooper101 (Sep 13, 2010)

Maybe call an extension agent in your state or someone in the state agriculture department. They might be able to point you to the rules. 

In Michigan, it's possible with a "Warehouse License" which allows you to sell inspected packaged meat if you have the storage facilities that meet the standard (basically, not just a freezer in your garage or barn). This is the license used for people who sell at farmers markets, etc.


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## Fire-Man (Apr 30, 2005)

JustinRobinsREO said:


> If I were to raise a pig, goat, sheep, or cow and I wanted to sell parts (not whole or half), but say like sausage, chops, or roasts online. Could I do that if the animal was slaughtered and processed at a USDA certified slaughter house?
> 
> Thank you!


Not without getting set-up with De-Hec, Etc. The last time I had a animal processed(some years back---do it myself now) The packages were stamped---Not For Resale. You contact DeHec they will tell you what/who to contact.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

JustinRobinsREO said:


> I know that each state has their own rules and regulations, but I am having the hardest time finding info out on this topic.
> 
> If I were to raise a pig, goat, sheep, or cow and I wanted to sell parts (not whole or half), but say like sausage, chops, or roasts online. Could I do that if the animal was slaughtered and processed at a USDA certified slaughter house?
> 
> ...


Good question. I will check today with my local USDA office and see about that. I have been wanting to check on it anyway. A farmer friend of mine sells meat but he does it as a partner with a meat sales company. You need to check with the USDA in your state for your info. My USDA office people have been very helpful with my operation. Really nothing like good home style sausage from farm raised pork. I do my own for myself and family.


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## JustinRobinsREO (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies. There would be a huge market here for fresh pork, lamb, and goat. However most people can't afford a whole or half so I am trying to figure out how to meet that demand.


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## TomYaz (Oct 5, 2010)

It can be complicated. If you want to sell retail cuts over the state lines, you need at a min USDA inspection. Then there are the state regs. Each state is different. In PA, I would need USDA inspection and State license subject to inspection as a food processor/wholesaler/retailer depending how I was marketing the product.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

JustinRobinsREO said:


> Thanks for all the replies. There would be a huge market here for fresh pork, lamb, and goat. However most people can't afford a whole or half so I am trying to figure out how to meet that demand.


I lived south of SLC years ago. I did sale for a meat company there for awhile. I don't remember how they were connected to the processor. I sold whole and half meat packages. Each county may have different rules also.

At that time and it was years ago, i raised Rabbits also. Sold live Rabbits to a lot of people. There was a big demand for Rabbits in SLC as there were a lot of people from Europe that lived there.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

JustinRobinsREO said:


> Thanks for all the replies. There would be a huge market here for fresh pork, lamb, and goat. However most people can't afford a whole or half so I am trying to figure out how to meet that demand.


Do you process your own meat? If not, you might want to take orders and let people buy the parts you don't use. I see a couple of problems with selling by the cut. You could easily get stuck with a bunch of unpopular cuts. Your meat is also going to cost more than Walmart's. What will make your meat better than a big retailer's.

Are there any local meat markets or butchers? Do your meat lockers have a retail shop? You might do well to partner with any of these people. You could supply them with product. That way you wouldn't have to worry about inspections; people already set up for that could handle it. You might be able to see if you could work with one of these types of stores to develop an online store.

Have you tried to sell via craigslist? I see partial beef and pork sales through them.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

You are going to have to double check on this, but I suspect that both the slaughter house and butcher must be USDA inspected.

None of the local butchers have a slaughter house. Animals are killed in the field, trucked to the butcher shop, and marked "not for resale".

The butcher I use has a little shop where he sells individual cuts, but that meat is from sides that he buys from a USDA inspected slaughter house, which is quite a distance away.

Decades ago, I lived where there was an inspected slaughter house, and you could take a steer there to be butchered, but all they would guarantee was that you'd get meat from the same size animal. That's not acceptable.

OP call the local butchers and ask them what you must do in order to sell individual cuts.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

To sell cuts you need inspection in most locals. To sell even carcasses you may need inspection for slaughter and possibly butchering most places. Check before you do it and don't try flying under the radar.

I think it may be universal in the USA that state inspection is the minimum to sell in-state for cuts - that is why the custom non-inspected is labeled "Not For Resale" on the packages.

For selling across state lines USDA inspected is the rule in the United States. There is a change coming whereby state inspection can be used in some cases for across state lines but that rule wasn't clear last time I heard - it was in the process. Sticking with USDA inspection keeps it simple. 

You may also need a state license for retail, wholesale, meat handling, scale, etc. Check with your state department of agriculture on that. In some places you also need other business licenses.

We sell primarily in-state to stores and restaurants (e.g., wholesale direct) as well as to some individuals (retail direct). We work with a USDA inspected meat processing facility for slaughter, butcher, sausage and smoking. The meat is ours and processed by the facility for us. On our label it says "Processed For" at the top. See:

http://SugarMtnFarm.com/2010/06/30/hot-dogs-and-sausage-for-the-4th/

There is also a circle with the USDA facility number on actual the label.

Because we do the delivery and sales (thus the need for the above licenses) so our meat carries our label. Many butchers buy the live animals and then that is the end of your involvement thus simplifying a lot of this since you're not dealing with the sales of cuts.

We're in the process of building our own on-farm meat processing facility which will start out state inspected and then shift to USDA inspected which is part of why I'm so familiar with the various regulations. Both State and USDA inspection in Vermont are actually the same set of regulations and the same actual inspectors but this gradual advancement is how they recommend getting into for new meat processing facilities.

We also sell some meat shipped to other states. The USDA inspection lets it cross state lines for shipping. We don't ship outside the USA because I don't want to take the time to figure out exports and we have more than enough market without that complication.

Shipped orders are a very small part of our sales. I do have some hesitation about shipping meat. I would expect that local pastured meat would be available anywhere but I have a lot of people contact me insisting that it is not available locally and ask that we ship. For a long time I said no but a few years ago I started doing it despite my qualms - seems like it sort of stumbles over the whole local issue but I've decided it is not my place to judge. The shipping is expensive.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

in ohio you can sell from your home freezer to people with no licenses but if you sell at the end of your farm lane or anywhere off farm you need a venders licenses 

it says nothing about you have to sell the whole or half 

it also says they need to be done at a usda inspeced butcher and if not then you cant sell them there is some places that have the means of it all but dont have an inspector there during every kill and there marked not for sale or should be marked that by the butcher 

also for chickens in ohio you can raise kill and sell up to 1000 chickens on the farm no inspection needed and no licenses needed you leave the farm and try to sell at a farmers market then you need a licenses and if i remember right the chickens need to be butchered at a usda inspeced butcher 

but every state and county is different contact your local health department and your states meat inspection office they can give you the laws and the places your state has usda inspected butchers where you can get them processed at for resale

most have web sites but i have found the fastest is to send and email requesting the information you want and they will find it for you and send it to you so you dont spend hours looking online in my experiance they have been very nice and answered all the questions i had


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Right now, I could buy processed pork, lamb, goat, and chicken on our local Craigslist. None mention USDA or other officialdom. Check your own and see if it's done in your area. You may be surprised!

Martin


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Paquebot said:


> Right now, I could buy processed pork, lamb, goat, and chicken on our local Craigslist. None mention USDA or other officialdom. Check your own and see if it's done in your area. You may be surprised!
> 
> Martin


http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/Inspection_&_Grading/index.asp#1

All processed pork,beef, etc. sold in the U.S. to the public , on line, crag list or anywhere else has to be under USDA inspection program. 

If you butcher yourself for your own use that is different. 

Best,
Gerold.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Quoting from the USDA/FSIS page you linked to:

_"Under the Federal Meat Inspection Act and the Poultry Products Inspection Act, FSIS inspects all raw meat and poultry *sold in interstate and foreign commerce*, including imported products."_

Thus if the meat does not leave the state it is not required to be covered by the USDA inspection, state inspection is allowed. There are state inspection programs in many states. 

They go on to say:

_"In addition, FSIS monitors State inspection programs, which inspect meat and poultry products sold only within the State in which they were produced. The 1967 Wholesome Meat Act and the 1968 Wholesome Poultry Products Act require State inspection programs to be "at least equal to" the Federal inspection program. In states that choose to end their inspection program or cannot maintain this standard, FSIS must assume responsibility for inspection within that State."_

The "At Least Equal To" clause (below) you might argue is the same as USDA but that is not quite true. At the USDA level it affects all meat inspection which must be under the eyes of an inspector on site. At the state level in some places the inspection is random and not on site at all times.

So it is a bit more complicated.

In most places there is also a custom processing exemption if you own the animal which does not require inspection. That's the Not For Sale option. In some places this means you must have raised the animal too to qualify for that. In other places you can buy the live animal and then it is yours. This is where local variation gets greater.

Best thing to do is contact your state department of agriculture to be sure of your local rules upward.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

As previously mentioned, a farmer can usually sell meat and other products from his own farm freezer or other storage on a private one-on-one basis with no inspection. Craigslist may seem to be quite public but the sales are quite private. Setting up a stand and selling meat to the general public would be totally different

Martin


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

JustinRobinsREO said:


> Thanks for all the replies. There would be a huge market here for fresh pork, lamb, and goat. However most people can't afford a whole or half so I am trying to figure out how to meet that demand.


http://ag.utah.gov/divisions/animal/meat/index.html

This link above will answer some of your questions. The state of Utah does follow most of the USDA rules. They work very close with the USDA. Best talk with them and also some of the custom processors and also regular meat processors to see what products you can sell at farm outlets, etc. and what licenses you will need. Also contact your local county to see if any licenses is required to sell there. 

I do my own butchering for myself. However i let the USDA processor do the butchering that is for other people. That way the processor owner has to make sure the meat is processed right and is responsible for good clean disease free meat. 

My Missouri college ext. office gave me a lot of info. and also a list of all the USDA license meat processors in Missouri. 

Best,
Gerold.


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## JustinRobinsREO (Jan 2, 2013)

A ton of great information! Thank you! I have seen ads for meat on both craigslist and KSL for local farms, but the ads are gone really quick which leads me to believe that they are selling it illegally. I will call my local extension to acquire more info. 

Now if I sold a whole live lamb, pig, cow, ect. with delivery to a local butcher of your choice on my site that would be okay right?


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

There should be no trouble selling processed whole, halves, or quarters from any butcher shop in any state. Farmer and customer agree on a price and it's done. You'll find that all over Craigslist. 

Martin


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## cooper101 (Sep 13, 2010)

JustinRobinsREO said:


> A ton of great information! Thank you! I have seen ads for meat on both craigslist and KSL for local farms, but the ads are gone really quick which leads me to believe that they are selling it illegally. I will call my local extension to acquire more info.
> 
> Now if I sold a whole live lamb, pig, cow, ect. with delivery to a local butcher of your choice on my site that would be okay right?


Live animals are usually no problem (individual states may vary). That's how I do it. My on-site slaughter guy was talking to me about it when I first started out and pointed at the live pig and said, "It's totally legal for you to sell that pig." Then he pointed at the carcass hanging from his hoist and said, "You just can't sell that one." One can debate why that logic makes sense, but basically if the deal is agreed upon before death, it's legal without inspection. The buyer of course can't go and sell the meat either. That's why the "Not for Resale" labeling. I've also heard it explained as if the buyer has a chance to view the exact live animal they're buying and they are not going to sell it, it doesn't need inspection. That isn't the legal definition, but in effect that's how it sort of works. I always offer my buyers the chance to see the pigs anytime they want, including coming out on butcher day. 

There's some debate about whether money has to change hands before slaughter or not to make it a legal sale of a "live" animal. I use a very prominent local processor and they actually offer the service of collecting payment for the producer (me) when the meat is picked up after processing. I'm guessing if money has to change hands before slaughter, they would have shut it down a long time ago. 

It's not a bad business model. If you have the volume to put six figures into your own processing facilities, that's a way to extract a bit more of the profit from the chain. If not, selling by the half and whole direct to the consumer works pretty well and there's good money in it if you can make your product something special and worth a higher price. You might have to find it, but there is a market out there that will pay more for higher quality, more humanely raised meat. 

Speaking from my experience, the craigslist ads that go up and then come down quickly are probably people selling the last couple of animals that previous buyers don't grab up. Out of my current batch of pigs, I had all sold to previous buyers except for 2 by the time they were about 3 months old (six of them sold before they were born). Posted an ad and had the other 2 sold in a couple days and then took down the ad. Might not be illegal sellers, just quick sales and small operations don't always have constant availability, so I take the ad down to avoid turning people away.


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## TomYaz (Oct 5, 2010)

Around here I would think I could have a larger customer base if I sold the cuts vs half/whole. I am hoping to have USDA slaughter and cut and wrap this year via a processor. The processor is already USDA approved for slaughter, says they will be approved for cut and wrap this year. If I got big enough I would like to have my own USDA cut and wrap, but leave the slaughtering to the processor.


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## JustinRobinsREO (Jan 2, 2013)

Sorry maybe I didn't clarify. The ads that I see go up and then get taken down are for people selling individual cuts from their own freezer.


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## cooper101 (Sep 13, 2010)

JustinRobinsREO said:


> Sorry maybe I didn't clarify. The ads that I see go up and then get taken down are for people selling individual cuts from their own freezer.


That might be a little fishy. Like the street-meat trucks that always seem to sucker my wife into buying some box of questionable beef.


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## cooper101 (Sep 13, 2010)

TomYaz said:


> Around here I would think I could have a larger customer base if I sold the cuts vs half/whole. I am hoping to have USDA slaughter and cut and wrap this year via a processor. The processor is already USDA approved for slaughter, says they will be approved for cut and wrap this year. If I got big enough I would like to have my own USDA cut and wrap, but leave the slaughtering to the processor.


 

Even though most people sell by the half or whole, there really isn't a limit on the fraction you can sell. I've done quarters and I've done a tenth before. It's an added administrative hassle, but it often pays off. If the pork is good, people come back. I've had good repeat sales of halves/wholes from people who have bought a quarter or less. 

My processor "doesn't prefer" to do it, but they will do a standard cut and then divvy it up into 4 or 5 boxes. I call in the instructions, so they don't have to call 4 people. They split it up; the customer picks up their 20 pounds of meat. Works well. I tell the buyers that they should get a little of everything, but I don't guarantee what cuts exactly they'll get. They understand.

Just an option to meet the needs of people who don't want a half or whole.

We often keep a half or whole for our family and I use that one as the pieces pig for people who want small amounts. We take what's left.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

TomYaz said:


> Around here I would think I could have a larger customer base if I sold the cuts vs half/whole. I am hoping to have USDA slaughter and cut and wrap this year via a processor. The processor is already USDA approved for slaughter, says they will be approved for cut and wrap this year. If I got big enough I would like to have my own USDA cut and wrap, but leave the slaughtering to the processor.


That may be a good way to go if you have a good nearby slaughter facility. I know of several people who've gone that route. If we had a nearby good processor I probably would let them do the slaughter. I find that the processors more reliably do a good job at the slaughter than at all the rest of the work. The problem is finding a USDA inspected processor that one can work with 52 weeks a year.

We are building our own USDA/State inspected meat processing facility. We're almost ready to start doing butchering. The building itself with everything necessary just for butcher (cut & wrap + sausage + smoke) with spaces left in it for slaughter and smoking has cost us about $165,000 for materials with us doing all the labor of construction. (Add a little more for some extras we built in which aren't necessary just butchering but that number is good enough for this discussion.) Butchering costs us about $135 to $260 per pig depending on what is done (simple cut & wrap vs linked sausage, hot dogs and smoked).

Adding the slaughter capacity to our facility is about $120,000 more in equipment and construction costs, again with us doing all the labor except the refrigeration hookup. Slaughter currently costs us $45/pig + transport (my wife does the trucking). Note that $40K of that $120K is a specialized machine for scald & scrape - we need it as we sell a lot of roaster pigs, otherwise you could skin the pigs.

Thus, it costs a lot more investment on our part to add the slaughter ($120K) yet doing slaughter will only save us a little per pig ($60).


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## JustinRobinsREO (Jan 2, 2013)

Wow! That is a lot for such little savings, but where you guys do as many hogs as you do year round like you do then I guess the savings are worth it.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Here's the latest listing for hamburger, posted yesterday:

http://madison.craigslist.org/grd/3754421693.html

Martin


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

JustinRobinsREO said:


> Wow! That is a lot for such little savings, but where you guys do as many hogs as you do year round like you do then I guess the savings are worth it.


We take pigs to market weekly year round so while it is only a small change per pig it mounts up over the long haul. If we only did pigs in the fall like most people around here do then it wouldn't be worth having our own on-farm butchering.

A side note is that we used to do sheep but could never pay the mortgage with them because the processing costs ate up almost all the money. Once we have our own processing for the pigs we'll be able to add sheep back, and later cattle, and the processing economics will be dramatically better. I like lamb and am good at sheep - I just couldn't make it pay.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

cooper101 said:


> Live animals are usually no problem (individual states may vary). That's how I do it. My on-site slaughter guy was talking to me about it when I first started out and pointed at the live pig and said, "It's totally legal for you to sell that pig." Then he pointed at the carcass hanging from his hoist and said, "You just can't sell that one." One can debate why that logic makes sense, but basically if the deal is agreed upon before death, it's legal without inspection. The buyer of course can't go and sell the meat either. That's why the "Not for Resale" labeling. I've also heard it explained as if the buyer has a chance to view the exact live animal they're buying and they are not going to sell it, it doesn't need inspection. That isn't the legal definition, but in effect that's how it sort of works. I always offer my buyers the chance to see the pigs anytime they want, including coming out on butcher day.
> 
> There's some debate about whether money has to change hands before slaughter or not to make it a legal sale of a "live" animal. I use a very prominent local processor and they actually offer the service of collecting payment for the producer (me) when the meat is picked up after processing. I'm guessing if money has to change hands before slaughter, they would have shut it down a long time ago.
> 
> ...


You did a good job explaining it, for Michigan.
Given those legal requirements, it is common to sell one pig to two owners and then splitting up the meat at the slaughter facility. Keeping with this OP, I don't see why you couldn't sell a pig to 4 people or 8 people. If the butcher would cut it into equal numbers of chops, bacon and pieces of ham.
Get a "down-payment" of twice the cost of a feeder pig, from your customers when you buy the feeder pig. Charge your customers a set price of per pound hanging weight. They pay for the cut, wrap and smoking, because that will cost more for some customers.


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