# Dalmatians as farmdogs?



## sparrowinsky (Feb 17, 2007)

I see a lot of mentions of Pyrenees and such as farm dogs (hadn't even heard of them until I started lurking around here... guess I'm sheltered when it comes to breeds ), but I was wondering if anyone had ever had a Dalmatian as a farm dog. My family had dalmatians long ago, and I've been considering getting another in perhaps a year or so. 

We had two, a smallish *****-- smart girl, one of the sweetest personalities I've seen out of a dog 'cept maybe for my Dobie-- and her son, who was large, stupid, and hadn't a mean bone in his body. The female, Ariel, we got when I was... oh... four, maybe? She'd have made a good farm dog; she was great with horses, willing to do anything I asked her to if she could. Squire, her son... well, he wanted to "play" with chickens but he outgrew it eventually. We never had them around anything but the chickens and horses on their home turf. The neighbor had cows, but that seemed to fall under a policy of mutually ignoring. 

I've heard a lot of stories of Dal temperaments that don't match up with what I recall... and my mom always said Ariel had a Lab temperament. My boyfriend seems to think they're vicious, children-killing machines (pffth *eyeroll*). I want so much to have a homestead-- I want cows and pigs and chickens and all sorts of homey, farm-y things. 

Does a Dal match up with that? Opinions, stories, anything?

Thanks ever so much.

(and Squire, just for the heck of it... I do miss them...)


----------



## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

I think a dalmatian could make great homestead dogs. They have been breed to work along horses and should be able to adapt to other livestock with out much problems. They are high energy dogs though and would need a great deal of exercise. Its highly recommended you go through a good breeder that does breed for temperament and tests for genetic health problems. This may cost you a bit more for a pup, but its worth it. After the movie 101 Dalmatians came out the breed soared in in popularity which did the breed great harm. People where more interested in making a buck and temperament and health issues were overlooked. There are tons of vicious dalmatian stories out there that can be contributed to both bad breeding and ignorant people whose lifestyles do not match a dalmatian. This has happened with other breeds as well after a movie made them popular, like St. Bernard's and Beethoven. There are plenty of good dalmatians out there and if you get one from a ethical breeder and it will be just fine. If I could live with the white hair that sticks to everything I would love to own one because I admire the stamina and good looks they posses.


----------



## Willow101 (Feb 20, 2008)

Well, it all depends on what you think a farm dog should be. 

When breeds were developed they were developed with certain purposes in mind and they were bred to have characteristics that would insure that most representatives of that breed could do the job they were intended to do. According to the AKC web site history page

http://www.akc.org/breeds/dalmatian/history.cfm

the Dalmation is a dog of many purposes including some that would be very useful on a farm. However, the breed is not specifically bred to herd or guard livestock or it would be in the Herding Group or the Working Group...not the Non Sporting Group. As long as you don't have a specific purpose which contradicts what the dog was bred to do, you should be fine. In other words....if your goal is to have a herding maniac...the Dal probably isn't a good choice. It has done a small amount of herding but that wasn't the focus of a breeding program. If you would just like a nice dog that has the potential to help around the farm if trained....you should be fine.

Just remember that one of the focuses mentioned in the breed is guard work and the breed is known to be a bit aggressive. That could be a liability in today's sue happy society although a good guard dog on a farm can be worth their weight in gold. So...if you have a specific job that the dog must do...find a breed that has been bred over generations to do the job you have in mind. But if you want an all around dog ....sort of a jack of all trades...the Dal might be perfect.

Willow101


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

The personality of a breed changes over the years. Dals have been seriously overbred several times in the past 20 years and that is always a bad thing. They are beautiful to look at. Having said that, they are one of only 4 breeds that I would never own. You couldn't give me one. I have worked with a lot of Dals and crosses over the years as a groomer, trainer and handling in boarding kennels, so I am not just basing this on one or two dogs.
Unfortunately very common problems in the dogs include;
Deafness or partial hearing loss. Deaf puppies are often culled, partially deaf ones don't and still have problems
Hip and Elbow Displasia
Eye defects such as eyes too small or sensitive to light
Sensitive skin, prone to sunburn and contact allergies
Hyperactivity - by this I don't mean a dog who is very active and needs to work, like a border collie, but a dog who can't calm down
They are a VERY dominant breed, you can expect to have to constantly reinforce your position. I'm sure there are those who will deny this but generally you find when people say their Dals have never tested for dominance, these people have either worked with the breed for a while or are simply incredibly naturally dominant people.
Fear issues
Barking is a training issue, but some breeds are more prone to it then others and this is one.
And last, I have never met a Dal or cross that had a consistent temperament. They are squirrelly and I often describe them as not knowing what they are going to do until after they've done it. I've had a couple of Dals after interacting happily with me for days, take a quick snap at me, fail to make contact and then go back to being happy calm and relaxed. I don't know how they would have reacted if I hadn't been quicker and they had made contact, whether that would have started a struggle, but since they didn't it was always a quick, what the [email protected](( was that about??? kind of thing. Or dogs that are "great with kids except" for one child who they've tried to bite. Or a dog who's good with kids at home and snaps outside the house, or vice-versa.

I am not saying that there aren't good ones out there, I'm saying that I've never met any and I've met LOTS and I've seen them disqualified at dog shows for snapping or cringing so a show breeder is no guarantee. You'll have to really search for someone who breeds first for temperament and then for health. This is hard because most breeders say they do, but then fail to back it up. If you really want one plan to spend at least a year researching breeders and when you've found one that seems good, see how many of their dogs have gone on to become therapy dogs or even passed Canine Good Citizen Tests (administered by the AKC to _any_ dog, one of the few things the AKC got right and no one should consider breeding if the parents can't pass). 

Best of luck if you decide to look for one. Personally, you couldn't give me one if it came with a solid gold collar and a years supply of dog food. Not trying to be nasty (typing doesn't always come out right) just my experience.


----------



## GoatsRus (Jan 19, 2003)

I grew up on a farm (mind you it was a vineyard, but we had cows, guinea, rabbits and chicks) and we had two of the best dalmations. The 1st one was a male who my mom let someone use as stud. We got pick of the litter and they took one of his sons - a liver spotted dalamtion. I lived with both dogs for more than 8 years until I moved out. Their temperment was consistant and they were good with the animals. Keeping in mind that we did not specifically use them for herding. As a side note, the father (Nebby) was shot by someone with a high powered rifle. He was missing for 2 days when my Dad found him dragging himself through the woods back to our house. He had been shot in the leg and lost a lot of blood, but he kept trying to make it home. They took him to the vet and his leg had to be amputated. He lived at least another 5 years after that and never missed a lick running on 3 legs.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Otter said:


> The personality of a breed changes over the years. Dals have been seriously overbred several times in the past 20 years and that is always a bad thing. They are beautiful to look at. Having said that, they are one of only 4 breeds that I would never own. You couldn't give me one. I have worked with a lot of Dals and crosses over the years as a groomer, trainer and handling in boarding kennels, so I am not just basing this on one or two dogs.
> Unfortunately very common problems in the dogs include;
> Deafness or partial hearing loss. Deaf puppies are often culled, partially deaf ones don't and still have problems
> Hip and Elbow Displasia
> ...


I agree with this post.
Our first dog as a married couple was a Dalmation that we bought back in 1986. He was an incredible dog, one of the best we ever owned and died of kidney failure (a common Dal problem) at age 11. We had him when we lived in downtown Boston and it was before the Disney movie was released to video and Dalmations were a pretty uncommonly seen breed. he got a LOT of attention on his walks.
Then the video was released and the public started clamoring for Dals and the breeders went hog wild. We got another Dal a few years after getting Parker and had to return her to the breeder because she was a neurotic mess.
I would never have another Dalmation now. Which is sad because Parker was such a great dog.


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Please, keep in mind, I wasn't saying that Dalmatians were never good dogs. I'm saying that the temperament of a breed changes over time and Dals have gotten the short end of the stick with several popularity surges.

Dalmatians 20 or more years ago were a _totally different dog_ then the ones you can get today. 
I adore GSDs, but I know that the dogs that my grandfather bred and I remember from my childhood are simply not available today without spending at least a year or two finding the right breeder with the right bloodlines and then spending $$$$$$ on the dog. Between being over popular and the show breeders going to extremes of form and neglecting temperament and health, they are simply not the dogs they were. Neither are Dals. Unfortunate, but none the less true.


----------



## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

Otter said:


> The personality of a breed changes over the years. Dals have been seriously overbred several times in the past 20 years and that is always a bad thing. [_more good stuff_]. Not trying to be nasty (typing doesn't always come out right) just my experience.


I've only known a handful of dalmatians over the years but they've all been grumpy dogs. I wouldn't have one either...


----------



## Judith (Jan 10, 2003)

We had a dalmation for 14 years.... horrible animal. He barked non stop ( at nothing) bit everyone and everything that got near him ( that included DH on two occasions. Once in the side of the neck!!!!) Killed cats and chickens. Ripped up the seats in the new jeep. I could go on and on. If the ----ation had been my dog he would have seen the pointy end of the gun. DH always had some excuse for his behavior. He claims it was his fault he got chewed on, startled the dog. His fault he chew the seats, he was 10 minutes late. You know that kind of thing. Horrible horrible animal. Never again. That said I have seen some rally sweet bitches! Like lab sweet. Nope I will stick to my Dobies thanks. Clean, smart and super trainable. What else could you want in a dog!


----------



## FL.Boy (Dec 17, 2007)

I think just about any dog could be a good farm dog. I have a pure rottweiler 8 years old and a lab/st.bernard that's 11 years old with a little training they don't mess with the chickens or pigs, the lab/st. bernard is better than the rott. I'm not for purebred dogs to much inbreeding and they have lots of health issues. im now looking at getting another mutt puppy to take over the lab/st. bernard's job.

PS: my dogs didn't even know what a chicken was until about 18 months ago


----------



## sparrowinsky (Feb 17, 2007)

Wow, thank you all for your responses. I got a lot more than I expected.  It was interesting to read about experiences with the downside of the breed; while I've dealt with a deaf one (one of my girl's first litters-- luckily my aunt is as soft a touch as I am, and took the deaf pup and one of her brothers-- deaf one was hyper but sweet, brother was the most laid-back dog I've ever met. I think my ***** just bred sweet tempers or something...), but I've never experienced the attitude problem side of thing. I suppose if I do go with a Dal I'll just have to be really careful about choosing. It's amazing to think the breed could have changed so much... but I guess it was almost seventeen years ago that we got Ariel, so I shouldn't be too surprised! 

In general I prefer mutts, but nostalgia does play a part in my desire for a Dalmatian... Oh well, it's still a year or more until I can get anything (need to train up my Heinz 57 first!) so I suppose I've got plenty of time to figure it out.


----------



## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

I am glad all this did not discourage you. I really think you could find a Dal that meets your expectations and would be real happy with it. There are people out there breeding to improve the breeds status and if you look around you will be able to find a good one or one similar to what you had. I would start looking now if you plan on getting one in a year or so. It took me two years to find a Labrador with the qualities I was looking for. I got lucky and was referred to a breeder close to my home. I don't believe the Dal's temperament is as damaged as people like to think. Negative experiences always stick with people longer then positive ones and most people concentrate on the negative traits of any breed when an inquiry is made. When looking at the American Temperament Test Society's website, they rank higher then collies, beagles, Great Danes and other popular family dogs. A popular event among Dalmatian people is called Road Trial Competitions. It is an event where they dogs are judged on their coaching abilities. No others breeds I am aware compete in it. Here is a quote describing it from the Dal Club of America. 



> Definition and Purpose
> 
> A Dalmatian Road Trial is a performance event designed to evaluate the Dalmatian's ability to "coach", or follow the horses. Exhibitors compete as handler on horseback or in a horse-drawn cart or carriage, with dog(s) off leash. The Dalmatian Standard of the American Kennel Club states that the Dalmatian "should be capable of great endurance, combined with a fair amount of speed", qualities essential to his successful use as a horse/rider and horse/coach escort. The purpose of a Road Trial is to demonstrate the use of purebred Dalmatians as a companion of man in the role that they have been bred to perform.
> 
> There are three levels of Road Trial Competition. The "Coaching Certificate" test evaluates the Dalmatian's ability to coach. The "Road Dog" class evaluates coaching ability and moderate endurance. The "Road Dog Excellent" class evaluates coaching ability and extended endurance. Road Trials demonstrate Dalmatians' ability to behave in public places, such as riding trails, in the presence of other dogs, in a manner that will reflect positively on the sport and on purebred dogs. The performance of dog and handler over the Road Trial course must be accurate and correct, and must conform to the requirements of these Regulations. It is also essential, however, that the dog demonstrates willingness and enjoyment of his work throughout.


If you ever get to see a trail in person or even on T.V its amazing how they work with their owners who are up on horseback. It obviously takes a dog with a sound temperament and lots of trainability to be able to do this, most people can't control their dogs are a leash.


----------



## sparrowinsky (Feb 17, 2007)

Heh, sounds like it has to take a good trainer too... I know I couldn't do that with my current mutts without beggin' strips in hand.

That sounds really neat, thanks for letting me know about it. And thanks so much for your advice, I think it's going to be really helpful.


----------



## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

keep in mind that (thanks in large part to disney driven greed) dals are one of the few breeds that consistantly rank far higher on the bite list than they do in population. also before they were "coach dogs," WETF that is, they were continental "bird dogs" in the balkans. continental type birddogs will readily run fur. despite the best efforts of the show/pet breeders, the instincts in a dogs genes will occassionally express themselves.


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Pops2 said:


> . also before they were "coach dogs," WETF that is,


A coach dog was one that ran with the coach, either just behind the horses, or if it was a high coach, actually underneath. Their job was a stable companion(horses are an animal that actually like "pets" the presence of a familiar animal of another species is soothing to them, many racehorses have their own goat or cat that travels with them.) and as guardians. Many people ignore the fact that pretty as they are, they are guard dogs. Their job was to erupt from under the coach, teeth flashing, after anyone who went near their coach or horses. Customarily they were worked in male-female pairs and the names Pongo and Perdita were very common. The author of 101 Dalmatians mentions in her books that she used those names because of the history to them.


----------



## lyceum (Oct 20, 2006)

Our Dalmation thinks that she is a cattle dog. I took her out one morning and a cow was out of the pasture. She had to come with me since she was on a leash and the cow was going toward the road. She reacted like any good cattle dog would have, which surprised me since she had never seen a cow that close.

She has a sensitive stomach, skin allergies, and is top dog. She does not like new dogs. She does love baby goats though. She thinks that they are HER babies. That has caused some problems with our Rat Terrier that also thinks that the goat babies are HER babies. 


She is a good dog though, aside from her problems. She is great with the animals.

Carisa


----------

