# Texmaster or Tennessee Meat Goats



## Christiaan (Mar 13, 2004)

Anyone know of any sources of Texmaster or Tennessee Meat Goats in Washington or Oregon?
Thanks!


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Join Chevon Talk on groupsyahoo.com do your homework, it's not what you think it is...a trademarked cross? There are millions of them in texas alone  Vicki


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## NWMO (Jul 26, 2005)

In Hobby Farms magazine this month. There are some breeders listed there and a couple of listings of "registered" farms/producers.

I think it is probably available online at Hobbyfarms.com

Might check it out for some leads.


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> Join Chevon Talk on groupsyahoo.com do your homework, it's not what you think it is...a trademarked cross? There are millions of them in texas alone  Vicki


Yep, they've gone the way of cattle's Beefmasters and that brand out of King Ranch the name of which eludes me now...crossed cows that in my state are called "commercial."

I'll sell my "Steelemaster" does to all comers. Guaranteed to be farmable, and bred to a registered boer buck!


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## oceanmist (Mar 21, 2006)

Christiaan said:


> Anyone know of any sources of Texmaster or Tennessee Meat Goats in Washington or Oregon?
> Thanks!


not that I know of and I have been a member of chevontalk for 2 years now.

what part of Oregon/ Washington are you located in?

Misty

PS check your PM


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

Google is so cool...

These folks say they will soon be into TN Meat Goats...might be, by now...
http://www.cybergoat.com/ScenicFarm/

Here's the farm that trademarked TN Meat Goats, which are just myotonic goats...
http://www.cybergoat.com/links/meat_goat.shtml


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## HazyDay (Feb 20, 2007)

NWMO said:


> In Hobby Farms magazine this month. There are some breeders listed there and a couple of listings of "registered" farms/producers.
> 
> I think it is probably available online at Hobbyfarms.com
> 
> Might check it out for some leads.


what one is that? The one with Pumpkins? I haven't got the Nov/Dec one yet :Bawling: It's time again for hobby farms to do a dairy goat issue!


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

Onion Creek's website, I think it was, talks about how the myotonic factor in the goats makes the meat more tender - true or just a marketing ploy??? The only reason I'd consider raising a myotonic goat for breeding is for MEAT.


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## oceanmist (Mar 21, 2006)

Jim S. said:


> Google is so cool...
> 
> These folks say they will soon be into TN Meat Goats...might be, by now...
> http://www.cybergoat.com/ScenicFarm/
> ...



Jim, where on the scenicfarm link, which takes you to Rogue Valley meat goats owned by Linda and Ray Shipley, did you find that they are getting into TexMasters or TMG's?

Also your link to "the farm that trademarked TMG's" takes you to a whole big list of Boer goat farms... I see Onion Creek Ranch on the list, but it is not a direct link to where TMG's were trademarked.

Misty


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Susanne Gaspforbreath was/is?? TMG, call them fainting goats on there  comeon I dare you  She was chevontalk...maybe not anymore?

How a contracting muscle makes something more tender is beyond me, a major muscle meat is always less expensive than a minor one...loin vs shoulder

You have to give it to them for marketing though! Vicki


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## chris30523 (Jun 11, 2005)

I have an American fullblood Boer that "faints" when you trim her hooves. It could be a selling point. I can get them all done while she is out and she doesn't even know it.


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

she still is there. gaspforbreath? i would want to change that as this site makes me nausea.


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

LOL Vicki - yep that's Suzanne's list (Gaspforbreath, lol, I know you mean that in the nicest possible way!). Myotonic is the PC name.


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## oceanmist (Mar 21, 2006)

susanne said:


> she still is there. gaspforbreath? i would want to change that as this site makes me nausea.



what other than the idea of using formalin do you find so repulsive Susanne?

There is a wealth of information there... I know you disagree and find the formalin thing disgusting, but why would you get nauseated by the rest?

I am not asking in a confrontational manner, I am truly curious.

Misty


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## oceanmist (Mar 21, 2006)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> Susanne Gaspforbreath was/is?? TMG, call them fainting goats on there  comeon I dare you  She was chevontalk...maybe not anymore?
> 
> How a contracting muscle makes something more tender is beyond me, a major muscle meat is always less expensive than a minor one...loin vs shoulder
> 
> You have to give it to them for marketing though! Vicki



Very funny Vicki  ... I get the impression that you have a long standing bone to pick with Ms. Gasparotto... not sure why, but your attitude seems to be very much against anything related to Onion Creek Ranch and her goats...

yes she still owns and operates ChevonTalk.

Have you tried myotonic meat vs. non-myotonic? Can you offer personal experience as to why a contracting muscle would not be more tender?

I dont' know as I have never tried it myself... maybe it is more than a marketing technique? :shrug: 

Misty


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## Christiaan (Mar 13, 2004)

Got a reply from Onion Creek Ranch. She doesn't have any secondary sources for her goats out here and she also pretty much said she wouldn't sell without me attending Goat Camp (tm). Maybe if I had a few thousand dollars laying around doing nothing I might do that, but in the meanwhile................
So I'll be researching this more. Demand for meat goats is rapidly increasing, both domestically and worldwide and I think it is something I can do on my small acreage to generate some income. I can do well enough with my Highland cow to keep us in beef and pay for the upkeep, but its not possible to generate a sustainable income with them. Meat goats on the other hand can do this. A friend and I are working on this together and right now it looks like we will try to breed our own myotonic/boer mix. The myotonics have a very good meat to waste ratio, the boer has the faster growth and bigger size. Just have to hit the right proportion to make a truly profitable meat goat. 
Now I just need to find a local source for myotonics, as shipping them from Texas or thereabouts really messes up the bottom line.


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## Christiaan (Mar 13, 2004)

Here is the new kid on the block, our first Kinder baby. Its a buckling and a singleton, so no real money maker this year.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

Please just remember that the goat that suzanne raises are from hot and dry (low worms and disease) texas. You move a goat like that to a humid cooler temp and you are going to have problems w/ worms and diseases. Mutt goats will also do better than purebred. People rushed to get goats on the market that were white bodied and red headed. the rush to flood the market let to "puppy mill" type stock. We had fit until we brought in some different stock and bred out some of the problems. Hybred vigger is very important w/ goats. I like no more than 3/4 boer. You get the "looks" of a boer but if the other 1/4 is milk goat you also get the milking ablilities. Our PB boers are not capable of raising more than 2 and sometimes 2 can be a strech. I am talking about a meat herd not a milking herd w/ lots of imputs. A PROFITABLE meat herd should be able to raise 2 babies on GOOD forage alone w/ minimal imputs. The second you feed grain you setyourself up for disease, health problems and NO PROFIT.

Getting goat that are adapted to your area and bred for worm resistance will be your best bet. It takes several generations to do this but we ( I think) are seeing some improvement from our original herd that would have problems after every rain.  worming meds are the biggest expense on a meat herd. it is hard to make a profit when you are having to worm every 4-6 weeks.


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

I am not asking in a confrontational manner, I am truly curious.
........................

How come Susanne gets this at the end of the post??? And I get diddly?



Can you offer personal experience as to why a contracting muscle would not be more tender?
...............................................

Are you serious? OK....my Dad ran a cow calf terminal slaughter operation in Canada my whole life. I have eaten beef my whole life. Enough study? Major muscle groups are meat. The more the muscle is used the more that meat group gets tough and the lower the price in the store. T bone steaks contain part major muscle, tougher, and part, a very small part of the loin, a minor muscle. Further out is the serloin which is not loin at all but the outside of the T bone...the filet is all loin cut. All three reflect the cost...the further out the cut on the major muscle the less expensive, because its tougher, the closer to the loin or containing part loin or all loin the more expensive.

So how can a fainting goat that contracts it's muscles more than a goat running and playing be more tender like is claimed? It can't because it is marketing.

As for the rest....no thanks Misty. Vicki


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

Oh geez... meat folks, just buy some boers, savannas or kikos and be done with it all. No falling over when the coyote attacks...they can RUN! Or if you want to get into it low-input like I work, buy some dairy crossed with boer does and get a boer buck. If you are selling for meat, do not worry about papers. Buy as close to market value as you can, and rock and roll.

I just attended a myotonic goat show, and let me tell you, what the judge picked I would not own. Pig-butted, sloping rear, cow hocked...these are the kindest words for the Grand Champion. But that's MY opinion.

There are myriad ways to raise goats. Everyone has a different idea and practice, down to individual farms. Pet goats are raised differently than breeders, which are raised differently than farmed goats. Herd size matters, as the bigger the herd gets, the less the individual is focused upon and the more the herd's performance matters.

Many folks on here have lots of years of experience with what works for them. Yet their practice might be dramatically different than what works for another producer with similar years of experience.

Hey, variety is the spice of life! And the final decision is with each producer.


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

oceanmist said:


> Jim, where on the scenicfarm link, which takes you to Rogue Valley meat goats owned by Linda and Ray Shipley, did you find that they are getting into TexMasters or TMG's?
> 
> Also your link to "the farm that trademarked TMG's" takes you to a whole big list of Boer goat farms... I see Onion Creek Ranch on the list, but it is not a direct link to where TMG's were trademarked.
> 
> Misty


Look under "R" ... I got this off Google, by simply putting in Tennessee meat goats Washington Oregon," and then using varients of that search...

http://www.1800miti.com/links/affh/animal/goat/meat-goat.html

On your second question, when I went there off Google, I just clicked and tah-dah....Onion Creek Ranch!


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

Christiaan - there is a gal up here (north of where I'm at) that has TMG and she is selling them. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlaskaLiveStockSales and check the archives there.


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> How come Susanne gets this at the end of the post??? And I get diddly?
> As for the rest....no thanks Misty. Vicki


maybe you don't get nausea from the use of formaldehyde?  

no misty, seriously. this is the reason why i said this. i did read chevon talk for a couple of weeks and how they deal with cl makes me so sick that i can't see the tiny bit good info that might be there. i always have in my head that this so treated meat is going on the dinner table. blech (where is the smiley when i need it  ) too many new people that want to get goats are getting a false impression and often sick goats and getting told this is normal.
cl is a disease that needs to be eradicated and not treated. if this lady would be the only person that sells goats, i would start breeding pigs. 
there are many other list with good info without this crab.


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## okiemom (May 12, 2002)

Before you get into meat goats is the time to decide what to do if you ever have a goat contract CL. This is also a subject that has been talked to death and needs to be agreed upon to disagree. This is like the meat goat vs. dairy goats husbandry debate which is totally different management styles so keep apples and oranges seperate.  

Now If you have much turnover, buy anything at an auction or even at private sales your chances of bringing CL home increase. Here is the rub... IT OCCURES NATURALLY IN ALL SOIL! your own property can give your goats CL. AND it last in soil darn near forever!!!!!! So decide before you get goats what you are going to do about CL. Deciding after is going to be from a knee jerk reaction. It is hard to vaccinate for CL ( if that is your choice) when they already have it. The vaccination reduces the absesses but won't stop them and the vaccine itself can give the goat an absess.

Good news there are many ways to treat or prevent. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. I don't mean form hearsay or passionate opinion. talk to the major goat universities and their professors and see what they say. Langston in oklahoma is a great resource, Miss. st.Un., and another big university back east do great job at goat studies.

Destroying the whold heard is also an option but it sure gets expensive. If that is the plan just don't bother starting w/ goats raise something easier.


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

okiemom said:


> Good news there are many ways to treat or prevent.


many ways to treat? would you please share one or two other treatments, other than culling(destroying), formaldehyde or surgically removal of the abscess?

a healthy goat/herd is not contracting cl just from the soil if there hasn't been animals previously, with ruptured assesses.
the only prevention is not to go to shows and don't buy from herds with cl.


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## oceanmist (Mar 21, 2006)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> I am not asking in a confrontational manner, I am truly curious.
> ........................
> 
> How come Susanne gets this at the end of the post??? And I get diddly?
> ...


misty


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## thatcompchick (Dec 29, 2004)

Christiaan said:


> Got a reply from Onion Creek Ranch. She doesn't have any secondary sources for her goats out here and she also pretty much said she wouldn't sell without me attending Goat Camp (tm). Maybe if I had a few thousand dollars laying around doing nothing I might do that, but in the meanwhile................
> So I'll be researching this more. Demand for meat goats is rapidly increasing, both domestically and worldwide and I think it is something I can do on my small acreage to generate some income. I can do well enough with my Highland cow to keep us in beef and pay for the upkeep, but its not possible to generate a sustainable income with them. Meat goats on the other hand can do this. A friend and I are working on this together and right now it looks like we will try to breed our own myotonic/boer mix. The myotonics have a very good meat to waste ratio, the boer has the faster growth and bigger size. Just have to hit the right proportion to make a truly profitable meat goat.
> Now I just need to find a local source for myotonics, as shipping them from Texas or thereabouts really messes up the bottom line.


Ok - finding myotonics won't be hard -finding the right kind may be. There is a huge 'pet' market, and you'll find that a lot of what SWG does is marketing/trademarking and selling as breeding stock. She does not actively breed to sell meat. Get with a myotonic/fainting goat breeder who breeds and SELLS for meat. Talk with them, find out about their markets. Most won't 'charge' you for training camps. It's all marketing madness there.

Heck, Jim has given you 'Goat Camp' fifty times over here!

I agree with what Okiemom said about the management. SWG is very high 'maintenance' management. If you want to rear your goats differently - well, basically, just go to a lot of farms and find out what works for you ;-) and as long as it's working well for that farm, just COPY IT.

I wish you were on the east coast, we could 'train' ya for free. I know of a couple breeders out your way but they breed for pet animals, so they have purty blue eyes and long hair and such but have not been selected for meat qualities!

We are in the DC area market, and have had feedback from people who have eaten goat all their life. One was from a man who ate an 18 month old buck who the slaughter house told my friend would 'not be good to eat'...and the customer said it was the most tender, best goat he's ever had. Our selling price for butcher goats is $2-2.50/lb on hoof.

As to 'tender'. Think of the double breasted chickens, the other high muscled animals such as Angus...

HTH some!

Andrea


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## thatcompchick (Dec 29, 2004)

susanne said:


> maybe you don't get nausea from the use of formaldehyde?
> 
> no misty, seriously. this is the reason why i said this. i did read chevon talk for a couple of weeks and how they deal with cl makes me so sick that i can't see the tiny bit good info that might be there. i always have in my head that this so treated meat is going on the dinner table. blech (where is the smiley when i need it  ) too many new people that want to get goats are getting a false impression and often sick goats and getting told this is normal.
> cl is a disease that needs to be eradicated and not treated. if this lady would be the only person that sells goats, i would start breeding pigs.
> there are many other list with good info without this crab.


Susanne, you can rest assured in one manner that swg's goats don't end up on the dinner table. She is breeding for breeding stock. I'm going to assume any bucklings she may sell to market (she mentions the market price)/auction are not going to show cl since it takes about 4-6 months to incubate.

Beware, there is a HUGE problem with cl and breeders taking responsibility in the myotonic/fainting goat community. 

Personally, I think the trademarks 'r us' goats are hilarious. Now the part that makes me sick is the attitude that cl is ok. Also, that the formalin advice is taken wrongly by people who don't understand that using that in a goat that will be food is downright ILLEGAL.

I'd follow Jim's advice ;-) If you want to keep myotonic/fainters for the meat market, it can be done, but it needs to be done more out of a promotion of the breed/heritage type mentality, than just a 'meat goat ranch'. For small herds, they are VERY advantageous in a lot of ways...just really depends on what your actual goals are.

Feel free to give me a holler if you'd like ;-) I'm working on a comprehensive resource of fainting goats/history/markets/health...site will be ready to roll in a few months (www.myotonicgoat.com)

Andrea
www.arare-breed.net
www.faintinggoat.net


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

thatcompchick said:


> Susanne, you can rest assured in one manner that swg's goats don't end up on the dinner table. She is breeding for breeding stock.
> Andrea
> www.arare-breed.net
> www.faintinggoat.net


andrea and that is exactly the problem. a person that teaches new people that cl is a disease that can easily be managed is the cause for getting formaldehyde on the dinner table. i have never read from her that this practice is *not* to be used on animals intended for slaughter.


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## thatcompchick (Dec 29, 2004)

Preaching to the choir with that one Susanne. You have no idea how many times I've been jumped on in the myo community for being very vigilant about cl testing and culling.

BTW, if you guys are interested in learning about a LARGE meat goat herd of myotonics that is bred by a genetics-expert veterinarian/professor - contact Dr Phil Sponenberg at Virginia Tech. He is an excellent geneticist, long time ALBC preservation technical advisor, and breeds fainters for meat.

He is in fact teaching a seminar at ALBC's Annual gathering on Selecting Myotonics for Meat Qualities.

I think you can contact him through the albc - www.albc-usa.org

Andrea


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## hoofinitnorth (Oct 18, 2006)

The other day I was asking about myotonics and one lady put it interestingly - she said she didn't like the idea of breeding/keeping them because it seemed mean - like laughing at a developmentally disabled child.


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