# I may be ready



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

To get my shot.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Why now?

Every time I turn on a conservative newscast or radio show they have been pushing it the last few days. Just heard Glen Beck going on and on about it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Why now?
> 
> Every time I turn on a conservative newscast or radio show they have been pushing it the last few days. Just heard Glen Beck going on and on about it.


I would say my single biggest reason is knowing that it would lessen the symptoms if I get Covid. 

Right out of the chute you make it political, while you are the first to criticize someone when they do it.

Conservative means reserving judgment until time proves something correct or wrong. The tradeoff of waiting has shifted knowing the newer strains are more contagious, and again how the vaccine works.

PS - I am encouraged that you listen to GB. He usually does his homework and tries to be thorough. I could never be so optimistic to think any message he delivers would change you. I suspect you listen so you understand your enemy better.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Is conservative political? I did not think it could be because it and liberal is mentioned in so many thread and they are not removed or moved.

I actually listen to most of the conservatives talk shows more than I do the liberal talk shows. I like to be well informed all points of view on a subject.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I like to be well informed all points of view on a subject.


Don't conflate listening with understanding, and I know you don't.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Don't conflate listening with understanding, and I know you don't.


Again, nasty personal attacks. I guess I should not expect you to stop them. Are you trying to get the mods to ban you?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Again, nasty personal attacks. I guess I should not expect you to stop them. Are you trying to get the mods to ban you?


How is it nasty?

I did not attack you. I simply offered an opinion based on years of observation.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Poo.

I just talked to my doctor's assistant. I have shingles right now. I have to wait.

BTW - They use Pfizer, but consider them all a viable choice.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> PS - I am encouraged that you listen to GB. He usually does his homework and tries to be thorough. I could never be so optimistic to think any message he delivers would change you. I suspect you listen so you understand your enemy better.


I think that for some, it's just a way to find out what to be opposed to.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

There is a direct correlation with how much you trust your government, as to whether you choose to get the vaccine. I am still holding out.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

HDRider said:


> I would say my single biggest reason is knowing that it would lessen the symptoms if I get Covid.
> 
> Right out of the chute you make it political, while you are the first to criticize someone when they do it.
> 
> ...


I didn't take her question as political. I am also wondering why now. Also, I have noticed that conservatives are pushing it.

Just an observation. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... or something like that.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

CKelly78z said:


> There is a direct correlation with how much you trust your government, as to whether you choose to get the vaccine. I am still holding out.


For some, perhaps.

I am not getting it right now because there is no data on efficacy, side effects, etc. over a long term (at least 5 years). I wouldn't put any new medication or vaccine in my body without that regardless of who developed it. For me, it has nothing to do with politics, the government, etc.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

CKelly78z said:


> There is a direct correlation with how much you trust your government, as to whether you choose to get the vaccine. I am still holding out.


No, there isn't. I don't trust the government, and I don't care the tiniest bit what they have to say about the vaccine. I got it because I read the research on the vaccine and how it works myself, and made my decision based on that.



HDRider said:


> To get my shot.


I think it's a good call.

As an aside, I also have ivermectin on hand, in case I get covid in spite of being vaccinated. I have HCQ on hand as well, but I have lost confidence in it since the time I acquired it and wouldn't bother with it.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

CKelly78z said:


> There is a direct correlation with how much you trust your government, as to whether you choose to get the vaccine. I am still holding out.


I'm there with you. After the many years of seeing government lies and corruption, I don't trust many from either party. In general, they're bigger liars than any used car salesman. And even worse is the fact that unelected officials control much of what goes on. No one with a brain who has watched Fauci flip flop his advice from day 1 could believe anything he says but he gets to dodge and weave every question asked him.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

poppy said:


> No one with a brain who has watched Fauci flip flop his advice from day 1 could believe anything he says but he gets to dodge and weave every question asked him.


Makes me wonder why he still has a job.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> To get my shot.


Ask your doctor for Ivermectin for the shingles! It is an antiviral.

*Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, But Largely Prevents Severe Illness, Israel Study Suggests*










Pfizer Shot Just 39% Effective Against Delta Infection, But Largely Prevents Severe Illness, Israel Study Suggests


Previous estimates indicated the Pfizer shot was only moderately less protective against Delta, though all studies indicate a high level of protection against hospitalization and severe illness.




www.forbes.com


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

I am 100% positive that many of the more strident anti-vaxxers already have, or will soon get the vaccine. And, equally positive that they will continue to hold forth with their anti-vax position.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I got the vax , mainly for ease of travel. The only one my doctor recommended was the J&J as I still tested with antibodies from exposure to covid. I'm still using Ivermectin. Do I feel safer no.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

I finally convinced Dad to get the J&J Monday... He crapped 7 of the family on getting it four weeks ago and he didn't show up... 78 and he is is ticking like a Rolex !!!


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Clem said:


> I am 100% positive that many of the more strident anti-vaxxers already have, or will soon get the vaccine. And, equally positive that they will continue to hold forth with their anti-vax position.


One can be anti-covid vaccines and not be an anti-vaxer. In fact, I believe most people who are anti covid vaccines are pro vaccines in general.

I would label myself as a very reluctant covid vaxer. I got it, but I'm not sure I did the right thing. Only time will tell. If the government had focussed on treatment protocols for covid-19, we probably wouldn't be in this sorry situation.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

That seems to be some ridiculous nit-picking designed to somehow make me think my terminology is wrong. 

If a reader can't understand what I'm saying, this song ain't for them.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> To get my shot.





SLFarmMI said:


> For some, perhaps.
> 
> I am not getting it right now because there is no data on efficacy, side effects, etc. over a long term (at least 5 years). I wouldn't put any new medication or vaccine in my body without that regardless of who developed it. For me, it has nothing to do with politics, the government, etc.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Rodeo's Bud said:


> I didn't take her question as political. I am also wondering why now. Also, I have noticed that conservatives are pushing it.
> 
> Just an observation. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... or something like that.


I've waited as well and it has nothing to do with politics but during that time, many insults have been hurled my way.

Initially, the only vaccine available to me was AZ and I didn't like the rumours circulating about blood clots or the denials from the developer, so I waited for further information. 

When other options became available, I couldn't see someone like myself, who lives a fairly isolated existence, driving to 50 miles to Calgary to stand in line with hoards of people and risk exposure, so I waited for a less complicated solution. 

When it became available in my town, I have waited a couple cycles to make sure the most vulnerable had their chance first and I'll likely book check on availability the next time I'm in town.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

MoonRiver said:


> One can be anti-covid vaccines and not be an anti-vaxer. In fact, I believe most people who are anti covid vaccines are pro vaccines in general.
> 
> I would label myself as a very reluctant covid vaxer. I got it, but I'm not sure I did the right thing. Only time will tell. If the government had focussed on treatment protocols for covid-19, we probably wouldn't be in this sorry situation.


I'm not even an anti covid vaxer but I draw a hard line on being bullied, forced or coerced to accept any medical treatment and I'll get mine when I'm good and ready.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Many of the NFL players are pushing back on the new rules to get vaxed or don't get paid if you can't play due to COVID-19.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

HDRider said:


> To get my shot.


Very wise choice. I got my two shots in March. I will get the next one also. I only had a very small reaction to the shot. At my age and health happy i did get the shot. My Doctor said i needed to get the shot so i did. The DT and his wife also got the shot not to long ago.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Think I'm one and done.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

I want to see:
Long term data on current vaccines.
More research and development put into vaccines already available. Current vaccines need to be perfected.
A second generation of vaccines put out, perhaps ones that are more effective (by that I mean that vaccinated people do get covid and do pass it on to others which should be fixed). Maybe address the blood clotting issue too.
I'm still waiting. I might be waiting a very long time.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

RJ2019 said:


> I'm still waiting. I might be waiting a very long time.


The calculus for me was how long I have to wait. 

I will be 62 in six months or so. I am in pretty good health. A friend of like mind called me today, and he has a friend that was in good shape, ten years younger than me, got Covid and may not make it. 

I understand better now what the vaccine does, and does not do. Time to take the prick


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

RJ2019 said:


> I want to see:
> Long term data on current vaccines.
> More research and development put into vaccines already available. Current vaccines need to be perfected.
> A second generation of vaccines put out, perhaps ones that are more effective (by that I mean that vaccinated people do get covid and do pass it on to others which should be fixed). Maybe address the blood clotting issue too.
> I'm still waiting. I might be waiting a very long time.


I would think an antiviral nasal spray might be a good option. It could be used as a preventative, early treatment, and in conjunction with a vaccine.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

HDRider said:


> The calculus for me was how long I have to wait.
> 
> I will be 62 in six months or so. I am in pretty good health. A friend of like mind called me today, and he has a friend that was in good shape, ten years younger than me, got Covid and may not make it.
> 
> I understand better now what the vaccine does, and does not do. Time to take the prick


And why should any healthy person die from Covid after we have had over 1 1/2 years to develop treatment protocols. It's almost seems like they want to scare people into getting vaccinated by withholding treatment.

FLCCC has protocols for the different stages of Covid. If I ever get Covid and require treatment, I am going to do my best to get doctor/hospital to follow the FLCCC protocol which is tried and tested and updated as better drugs are identified.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

MoonRiver said:


> And why should any healthy person die from Covid after we have had over 1 1/2 years to develop treatment protocols. It's almost seems like they want to scare people into getting vaccinated by withholding treatment.


No debate from me


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I don't care why more people are choosing to get the shot now. I am just happy they are. The more people vaccinated the better it is for people unable able to get it because of medical reasons or age.

It also reduces the burden on the medical community and hospitals.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

MoonRiver said:


> And why should any healthy person die from Covid after we have had over 1 1/2 years to develop treatment protocols. It's almost seems like they want to scare people into getting vaccinated by withholding treatment.
> 
> FLCCC has protocols for the different stages of Covid. If I ever get Covid and require treatment, I am going to do my best to get doctor/hospital to follow the FLCCC protocol which is tried and tested and updated as better drugs are identified.


What vested interest do you think "they" have for keeping a treatment hidden just so that more people get vaccinated? So many people seem to have this idea that there is some dark motivation to make people take the vaccine. Usually people that believe this make some reference to control. So what are the governments of all these different countries gaining by vaccinating people while suppressing a cure for covid? Money seems a poor answer. Far more money was lost by lock downs and covid relief funds and lost trade and lost travel revenue than would be lost by treating covid with cheap drugs. At least it looks that way to me. So, short version. Why would the government rather have people vaccinated than treated for covid? Isn't it at least possible that the leadership of countries actually thinks the vaccine is the best chance of protecting people from covid, whether they are right or wrong?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Clem said:


> I am 100% positive that many of the more strident anti-vaxxers already have, or will soon get the vaccine. And, equally positive that they will continue to hold forth with their anti-vax position.


And you are wrong. Only about 53% of the population has been vaccinated so far, a little over half. Probably 95% of those unvaccinated are not anti vax. They just don't trust this vaccination because normal testing procedures were not followed. I personally don't trust any new medication until I see how it works in the real world and we are beginning to get more data on this vaccine. It is becoming clear that it does not stop you from getting COVID, which was one of the original selling points. We also know if you are vaccinated and get COVID you can pass it onto others. It's only promise now is that you will get mild COVID and likely avoid hospitalization and death. Probably true to some degree since the percentage of vaccinated people dying of COVID is small, but then again the percentage of people who were hospitalized or died from COVID was small from the beginning. Israel is now testing an oral vaccine that promises to be much more effective against variants because it induces you body to recognize 3 different proteins of the virus instead of only one protein like the current vaccines. Other companies are preparing to test nasal vaccines.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> What vested interest do you think "they" have for keeping a treatment hidden just so that more people get vaccinated? So many people seem to have this idea that there is some dark motivation to make people take the vaccine. Usually people that believe this make some reference to control. So what are the governments of all these different countries gaining by vaccinating people while suppressing a cure for covid? Money seems a poor answer. Far more money was lost by lock downs and covid relief funds and lost trade and lost travel revenue than would be lost by treating covid with cheap drugs. At least it looks that way to me. So, short version. Why would the government rather have people vaccinated than treated for covid? Isn't it at least possible that the leadership of countries actually thinks the vaccine is the best chance of protecting people from covid, whether they are right or wrong?


It is a good question, I've wondered about it myself. Where is the research for treatments for those that do contract Covid? There is finally one approved drug and ventilators. Had a older friend contract the virus, she was sent home with a fever of 103 and told to take Tylenol, is that normal treatment. She ended up back in the hospital 2 hours later, she spent two weeks in. The treatment was fluids and more Tylenol. They told her son she needed to go on a ventilator, she said no. She did recover with a large bill.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> What vested interest do you think "they" have for keeping a treatment hidden just so that more people get vaccinated? So many people seem to have this idea that there is some dark motivation to make people take the vaccine. Usually people that believe this make some reference to control. So what are the governments of all these different countries gaining by vaccinating people while suppressing a cure for covid? Money seems a poor answer. Far more money was lost by lock downs and covid relief funds and lost trade and lost travel revenue than would be lost by treating covid with cheap drugs. At least it looks that way to me. So, short version. Why would the government rather have people vaccinated than treated for covid? Isn't it at least possible that the leadership of countries actually thinks the vaccine is the best chance of protecting people from covid, whether they are right or wrong?


If an effective treatment for the Wuflu were available, an EUA in the US for a vaccine would have been challenging to obtain. And who lost money with the lockdowns? The fed just printed some more and the US government just sent it to who they could influence with it. I still am not anti-Wuflu vaccine. If I hadn't had it or were older/unhealthy or lived a life exposed to large numbers of people regularly, I likely would have taken the Fauci ouchie. I just find all of this hinkey. And, I am absolutely tired of being lied to constantly. I call shenanigans.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I think the real side effects of the covid vaccine are being supressed. I think the real breakthrough numbers are being supressed. I think the accuracy of the tests is being supressed. The effectiveness of real covid antibodies is being kept from us.

I still am not a fan of passing out in Walmart after getting stuck.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

I fully understand that people are tired of being lied to. I am as well. I just tend to think government cover ups and lies are far, far more often an attempt to cover up the inept, rather than evil. 



Danaus29 said:


> I think the real side effects of the covid vaccine are being supressed. I think the real breakthrough numbers are being supressed. I think the accuracy of the tests is being supressed. The effectiveness of real covid antibodies is being kept from us.
> 
> I still am not a fan of passing out in Walmart after getting stuck.


I think lots of people think that. But it's very hard to get at the real reason people think that. I don't believe it's because people have any real, hard data that they are basing it on. It seems to be simply because they just don't trust the government. That's fine, I don't either. That still doesn't make all, or any, of those things true. They may be, they may not. It still doesn't explain why the government, and its far from just our government, is so pro vaccine if they really didn't think the vaccine was the way to stop the virus. 

I don't really understand the passing out thing you are talking about. After people get a vaccination, they are supposed to stay in the medical area for a period of time to ensure they don't have an allergic reaction, and in case they pass out. Some people simply react that way to injections, or even just from seeing a needle. I've seen it happen lots of times, both in the military and in the hospital. It's nothing specific to the covid vaccine.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Hiro said:


> If an effective treatment for the Wuflu were available, an EUA in the US for a vaccine would have been challenging to obtain. And who lost money with the lockdowns? The fed just printed some more and the US government just sent it to who they could influence with it. I still am not anti-Wuflu vaccine. If I hadn't had it or were older/unhealthy or lived a life exposed to large numbers of people regularly, I likely would have taken the Fauci ouchie. I just find all of this hinkey. And, I am absolutely tired of being lied to constantly. I call shenanigans.


If an effective treatment were found, it wouldn't matter if the vaccine was harder to get approval for, because they would be no pressing need for one. Again people seem to think the government had some vested interest in vaccinating people, and that interest wasn't too protect people from covid. That doesn't make sense to me. What is the reason they just want to vaccinate people? Money doesn't make sense. They can charge anything they want for the treatment, and they are giving the vaccine away, so again, what is the sinister motive behind the vaccines? 

The entire country lost money with the lockdowns. Whether the fed just prints more doesn't change the impact it has.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

todd_xxxx said:


> If an effective treatment were found, it wouldn't matter if the vaccine was harder to get approval for, because they would be no pressing need for one. Again people seem to think the government had some vested interest in vaccinating people, and that interest wasn't too protect people from covid. That doesn't make sense to me. What is the reason they just want to vaccinate people? Money doesn't make sense. They can charge anything they want for the treatment, and they are giving the vaccine away, so again, what is the sinister motive behind the vaccines?
> 
> The entire country lost money with the lockdowns. Whether the fed just prints more doesn't change the impact it has.



Can't you see government's vested interest? It is obvious to some of us. It is about control and power. It allowed government an excuse to print trillions of dollars out of thin air to dole out to the peasants. That controls the people. It buys votes from low income folks simply because who is going to vote against any government officials who give them free money? Simply put, say you had 2 neighbors about the same but one gave you money every few months for doing nothing and the other never gave you a dime. Which neighbor would be your favorite? It's the same tactic one side of our government uses when they promise reparations, free healthcare, free college, free everything. It is also a hammer to hold over your head. We saw it with lockdowns and now we're seeing it with vaccinations.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

They don't charge the patient directly but the government is financing the costs, which will raise taxes. We will pay for it. The drug companies are making billions of dollars.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Danaus29 said:


> I think the real side effects of the covid vaccine are being supressed. *I think the real breakthrough numbers are being supressed. *I think the accuracy of the tests is being supressed. The effectiveness of real covid antibodies is being kept from us.
> 
> I still am not a fan of passing out in Walmart after getting stuck.


A new study out of Israel shows the protection from infection of the Pfizer vaccine is only 35% for those vaccinated in January. This means booster shots will be required as some predicted. These vaccines were made very quickly with new technology and a selling point was that they could be 'tweaked' quickly to cover variants that arose. Perhaps they are working on that but I have heard nothing about any such tweaking going on.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

no really said:


> They don't charge the patient directly but the government is financing the costs, which will raise taxes. We will pay for it. The drug companies are making billions of dollars.


They can easily charge more for treatment than for a series of two vaccinations.



poppy said:


> Can't you see government's vested interest? It is obvious to some of us. It is about control and power. It allowed government an excuse to print trillions of dollars out of thin air to dole out to the peasants. That controls the people. It buys votes from low income folks simply because who is going to vote against any government officials who give them free money? Simply put, say you had 2 neighbors about the same but one gave you money every few months for doing nothing and the other never gave you a dime. Which neighbor would be your favorite? It's the same tactic one side of our government uses when they promise reparations, free healthcare, free college, free everything. It is also a hammer to hold over your head. We saw it with lockdowns and now we're seeing it with vaccinations.


They were doing that long before covid and will be doing it long after. They don't need a vaccination to do any of that, as you just said yourself. They have reparations, healthcare, college, free cell phones, welfare, and on and on and on. And again the vague reference that somehow ties the vaccine to control. In addition to that, every government I know about is pushing its people to be vaccinated. It doesn't matter the country or the form of government. I'm simply trying to see, specifically, not in vague and sinister riddles, what the world's government's motivation is to push for everyone being vaccinated. Isn't the simplest answer that they think it is the best way to protect people from covid? I'm not young, I'm not naive, I was in the military for 20 years and saw plenty of things covered up. I'm just not convinced there is some evil plot to vaccinate everyone for some nefarious reason.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> They can easily charge more for treatment than for a series of two vaccinations.
> 
> 
> 
> They were doing that long before covid and will be doing it long after. They don't need a vaccination to do any of that, as you just said yourself. They have reparations, healthcare, college, free cell phones, welfare, and on and on and on. And again the vague reference that somehow ties the vaccine to control. In addition to that, every government I know about is pushing its people to be vaccinated. It doesn't matter the country or the form of government. I'm simply trying to see, specifically, not in vague and sinister riddles, what the world's government's motivation is to push for everyone being vaccinated. Isn't the simplest answer that they think it is the best way to protect people from covid? I'm not young, I'm not naive, I was in the military for 20 years and saw plenty of things covered up. I'm just not convinced there is some evil plot to vaccinate everyone for some nefarious reason.


Her doctor told her to wait due to needing some surgery. Some people can't immediately take these vaccinations due to various medical issues.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

poppy said:


> A new study out of Israel shows the protection from infection of the Pfizer vaccine is only 35% for those vaccinated in January. This means booster shots will be required as some predicted. These vaccines were made very quickly with new technology and a selling point was that they could be 'tweaked' quickly to cover variants that arose. Perhaps they are working on that but I have heard nothing about any such tweaking going on.


Read somewhere that they are talking about monthly boosters in the UK.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Poo.
> 
> I just talked to my doctor's assistant. I have shingles right now. I have to wait.
> 
> BTW - They use Pfizer, but consider them all a viable choice.


Did they give you gabipention for shingles. Son has a bad case thats what he was give


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

todd_xxxx said:


> I don't really understand the passing out thing you are talking about. After people get a vaccination, they are supposed to stay in the medical area for a period of time to ensure they don't have an allergic reaction, and in case they pass out. Some people simply react that way to injections, or even just from seeing a needle. I've seen it happen lots of times, both in the military and in the hospital. It's nothing specific to the covid vaccine.


I pass out after getting stuck, a few times I've passed out from seeing a needle. Once I passed out after a diabetes test finger stick. My doctor has to take special precautions in order to give me a flu shot. 

Pass out and they call the ambulance and send you to the hospital.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

todd_xxxx said:


> What vested interest do you think "they" have for keeping a treatment hidden just so that more people get vaccinated? So many people seem to have this idea that there is some dark motivation to make people take the vaccine. Usually people that believe this make some reference to control. So what are the governments of all these different countries gaining by vaccinating people while suppressing a cure for covid? Money seems a poor answer. Far more money was lost by lock downs and covid relief funds and lost trade and lost travel revenue than would be lost by treating covid with cheap drugs. At least it looks that way to me. So, short version. Why would the government rather have people vaccinated than treated for covid? Isn't it at least possible that the leadership of countries actually thinks the vaccine is the best chance of protecting people from covid, whether they are right or wrong?


I don't think it is money and never have. The only thing that makes sense to me is the government knows something about covid-19 they are not telling us. I think it is impossible that our intelligence agencies don't know exactly how and where the Sars-Cov2 virus came from. I think it is likely our government played some role in its development if only financially.

I thought, and many people thought, that the reason the government didn't focus on therapeutics was that the EUA required there not be any treatment, but I think that is wrong. The FDA or whichever agency had authority over EUA would have changed the EUA to allow both therapeutics and vaccines and Congress would have quickly enacted legislation if necessary.

It might be as simple as the government, on its initial assessment, determined there were no available treatments for Covid-19 and that emergency vaccines were the only solution. As time went on, government inertia made it nearly impossible for the government to admit their mistake and acknowledge that we could have a 2 pronged attack using both vaccines and therapeutics.

It still doesn't explain how and why the government is so determined to prevent any discussion of cheap, available therapeutics and why the government still has no outpatient treatment protocol for Covid-19. It also doesn't explain why Congress has done absolutely nothing to uncover how and where the Sars-Cov2 virus came from, why we don't have therapeutics for treating patients, etc.

It doesn't explain why the majority of healthcare professionals are sticking their heads in the sand and not asking questions and demanding answers. It doesn't explain why world-famous doctors like Dr. Paul Marik and Dr. Pierre Kory are treated by the government and by the media as quacks. It doesn't explain why the videos of doctors and scientists discussing Covid-19 and possible treatments are deleted by youtube, or FB, etc.

If this was to ever be revealed as a power play by a political party, by some in government, by corporate leaders, or by some combination, I don't know if the genie can ever get put back inside the bottle.

In other words, I can't think of anything sinister enough to explain the government's actions.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Forcast said:


> Did they give you gabipention for shingles. Son has a bad case thats what he was give


I have not been to the doctor. Figured I'd just wait it out.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

MoonRiver said:


> I don't think it is money and never have. The only thing that makes sense to me is the government knows something about covid-19 they are not telling us. I think it is impossible that our intelligence agencies don't know exactly how and where the Sars-Cov2 virus came from. I think it is likely our government played some role in its development if only financially.
> 
> I thought, and many people thought, that the reason the government didn't focus on therapeutics was that the EUA required there not be any treatment, but I think that is wrong. The FDA or whichever agency had authority over EUA would have changed the EUA to allow both therapeutics and vaccines and Congress would have quickly enacted legislation if necessary.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the chop job on the quote.

Here is what I think with regards to what you posted. I think you're first three paragraphs, the three I quoted, are right on, with one tweak. I think the government is scrambling to try to stop covid, and came up with a vaccine before they came up with a treatment. I think, actually I know, that treatment options are being explored. I don't think there will be any stigma to admitting there is a good treatment option as well as a vaccine at that point. There just isn't, in my mind, a great treatment option right now. HCQ kind of fell apart for me. Ivermectin looks promising as an early treatment option, and I have it on hand, but I'm not 100% happy with the results I have read about. I think it is proving to be helpful, but not as effective as I would like to see in a treatment. There are more being tested that show a lot of promise but aren't proven yet.

Your last paragraph is where I think I differ in opinion most from a lot of people. I don't see the other things as covering up something sinister as much as I see people trying to cover up for mistakes, and being inept. A lot of years of experience take me back to one of my core beliefs. You can more often explain people's actions as stupid, lazy, or misguided, rather than evil.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

HDRider said:


> I have not been to the doctor. Figured I'd just wait it out.


You may want to reconsider. Shingles can have some pretty long term effects that may not be really dangerous, but can make your life kind of miserable.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

todd_xxxx said:


> You may want to reconsider. Shingles can have some pretty long term effects that may not be really dangerous, but can make your life kind of miserable.


Thanks. I may.


----------



## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

todd_xxxx said:


> Sorry for the chop job on the quote.
> 
> Here is what I think with regards to what you posted. I think you're first the paragraphs, the three I quoted, are right on, with one tweak. I think the government scrambling to try to stop covid, and came up with a vaccine before they came up with a treatment. I think, actually I know, that treatment options are being explored. I don't think there will be any stigma to admitting there is a good treatment option as week as a vaccine at that point. There just isn't, in my mind, a great treatment option right now. HCQ kind of feel apart for me. Ivermectin looks promising as an early treatment option, and I have it on hand, but I'm not 100% happy with the results I have read about. I think it is proving to be helpful, but not as effective as I would like to see in a treatment. They're are more being tested that show a lot of promise but aren't proven yet.


I think if you relook at HCQ and Ivermectin you will find both are very effective if given in the proper dose at the proper time.

And yes, there are already treatment protocols that are effective.





__





Treatment Protocols - FLCCC | Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance


COVID-19 is a treatable disease, when caught early and treated appropriately. While there is no “magic bullet,” a number of therapies and drugs with different mechanisms of action have been shown to work during various phases of the disease. The protocols on this page represent our recommended...




covid19criticalcare.com







> Your last paragraph is where I think I differ in opinion most from a lot of people. I don't see the other things as covering up something sinister as much as I see people trying to cover up for mistakes, and being inept. A lot of years of experience take me back to one of my core beliefs. You can more often explain people's actions as stupid, lazy, or misguided, rather than evil.


So your argument is the people in the government, the people in drug companies, the people at WHO, the leaders of Google, FB, Twitter, et all, doctors, scientists, etc are all stupid, lazy, or misguided? In other words, there is no plan to censor information, to withhold treatment options, to tell people they must get vaccinated even when they already have antibodies, and on and on. These are all just a result of being stupid, lazy, or misguided?


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

MoonRiver said:


> I think if you relook at HCQ and Ivermectin you will find both are very effective if given in the proper dose at the proper time.
> 
> And yes, there are already treatment protocols that are effective.
> 
> ...


I really try to have rational conversations about things with people, but if what you got from my posts about the subject are summed up in that last paragraph, I'm failing to communicate well, and I don't see any reason to continue trying. I will say that if you ascribe the words "all" "none" "everyone", "never", or "always" to something I have said, you've probably missed my meaning.


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

HDRider said:


> The calculus for me was how long I have to wait.
> 
> I will be 62 in six months or so. I am in pretty good health. A friend of like mind called me today, and he has a friend that was in good shape, ten years younger than me, got Covid and may not make it.
> 
> I understand better now what the vaccine does, and does not do. Time to take the prick


On the other hand, my mother is 70, has had Parkinson's for nearly 20 years. Was recently hospitalized for a fall and subsequent back surgery, and got a Covid test as well as an antibody test. She tested positive for antibodies (after more than one test) and was never noticeably sick.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get the jab, just giving another anecdote that isn't as scary as your friend's.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

HD I sincerely hope that you will get the vaccine as soon as you are able. There is no connection between the shingles virus and Covid-19 virus because they are completely different viruses - although there have been cases of shingles reported with Covid-19..This has mainly been with people who have had shingles before or those with poor immunity.. It all has to do with immunity. The fact that you have shingles means that your immunity is weakened or compromised which can be harmful if you get Covid now.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> HD I sincerely hope that you will get the vaccine as soon as you are able. There is no connection between the shingles virus and Covid-19 virus because they are completely different viruses - although there have been cases of shingles reported with Covid-19..This has mainly been with people who have had shingles before or those with poor immunity.. It all has to do with immunity. The fact that you have shingles means that your immunity is weakened or compromised which can be harmful if you get Covid now.


My doctor said I had to wait for the shingles to subside before getting the Covid shot


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Makes sense to wait now. Are you on Valacyclovir? and Lyrica? and will you get the shingles vaccine when you areover this outbreak as it can reoccur? I am fully vaccinated since May - Moderna - as is my whole family. I have shingles right now - the third week - which is nothing unusual considering that it is very common for cancer patients on chemo to get it because of compromised immunity. My only advice to people is get the shingles vaccine. Shingles is just as horrible as doctors say it is. I would not wish this on my worst enemy. And mine was caught and treatment started very quickly.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> Makes sense to wait now. Are you on Valacyclovir? and Lyrica? and will you get the shingles vaccine when you areover this outbreak as it can reoccur? I am fully vaccinated since May - Moderna - as is my whole family. I have shingles right now - the third week - which is nothing unusual considering that it is very common for cancer patients on chemo to get it because of compromised immunity. My only advice to people is get the shingles vaccine. Shingles is just as horrible as doctors say it is. I would not wish this on my worst enemy. And mine was caught and treatment started very quickly.


They just popped up. I will go to the doc Monday.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> No, there isn't. I don't trust the government, and I don't care the tiniest bit what they have to say about the vaccine. I got it because I read the research on the vaccine and how it works myself, and made my decision based on that.


I respect the spirit of that point of view, but I also find it paradoxical. The research you’re allowed to see is the research the government wants you to see, via study funded to produce the result they wanted to see.

There is no unadulterated Truth anymore.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I respect the spirit of that point of view, but I also find it paradoxical. The research you’re allowed to see is the research the government wants you to see, via study funded to produce the result they wanted to see.
> 
> There is no unadulterated Truth anymore.


I guess that will always be true. I read the medical research available to me, but if there is research that isn't allowed to be published or is suppressed that contradicts the research I can see, than yes, it's impossible to make an informed decision. Be that as it may, all anyone can do is make use of the information that is available. What other option is there?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> What other option is there?


Do whatever’s within your power to make this statement false.


todd_xxxx said:


> I guess that will always be true.


The fact that we feel we have to accept the fact that we can’t make informed decisions about something as important as our health, because our government uses the money we send them to lie to us, is outrageous and shouldn’t be accepted as unchangeable.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Absolutely not no way not going to.
I've already lived a good life
Covid come get me
If that's how it's going down bring it
Not interested in government propaganda BS no way
If it gets me
Love you guys
Enjoyed our time together
See you down the road


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Do whatever’s within your power to make this statement false.
> 
> 
> The fact that we feel we have to accept the fact that we can’t make informed decisions about something as important as our health, because our government uses the money we send them to lie to us, is outrageous and shouldn’t be accepted as unchangeable.


I agree with the sentiment but that doesn't really outline a path to changing it.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

For everyone concerned about long term effects from the vaccine, what about long term effects of the disease? I wish I could have gotten vaccinated before I got Covid. It was a mild case, felt like a cold with fever and aches but at the end I lost my taste and smell for a few days. That means it was in my brain which really worries me. Like how chicken pox lurks for years and comes back as shingles, what might Covid do later?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm already dealing with the effects of being a long hauler.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> I agree with the sentiment but that doesn't really outline a path to changing it.


You’re right. It doesn’t.

Think long and hard about what a plan to that effect would look like. Then think simple and quick about why that wouldn’t be something you’d find in a forum post.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

You never can be certain who is going to suggest and plan kidnapping government officials and why. They may not even be beside you at the arraignment.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Biggest concern for me on the covid vaccines is the no fault, no matter why, that the government has given the vaccine manufactures and providers.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Redlands Okie said:


> Biggest concern for me on the covid vaccines is the no fault, no matter why, that the government has given the vaccine manufactures and providers.


Yes, that is sort of a red flag


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

RJ2019 said:


> Yes, that is sort of a red flag


It was a yellow flag for me. It was yellow because it was created in a hurry for what appeared to be a global pandemic with few treatment options. It became a red flag, when it was obvious there were treatment options that worked and they extended the liability waivers to, not just the developers, but those that mandated the vaccine. If you want to exclude the developers and manufacturers of a vaccine purported to halt a global pandemic, I may have my doubts. But, when you try to shield those other enterprises forcing it upon their employees....I have a double red flag. I would mention the trials of this vaccine on children that are virtually immune to this engineered virus, but if your hackles aren't already up...nothing that I can type will.


----------



## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Clem said:


> I am 100% positive that many of the more strident anti-vaxxers already have, or will soon get the vaccine. And, equally positive that they will continue to hold forth with their anti-vax position.


Really? On what are you basing your 100% positivity?

Because someone does not want to participate in a medical experiment, especially without true informed consent, does not make them "anti-vaxxer" (a very dismissive, disrespectful term, BTW). 

It just means that they have valid reasons for not participating.

I refuse. I will continue to refuse. 

Period.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Clem said:


> I am 100% positive that many of the more strident anti-vaxxers already have, or will soon get the vaccine. And, equally positive that they will continue to hold forth with their anti-vax position.


Wrong
That 100% just went down 
I had Covid
February 2020
Bring that Delta or another version on
I'll kick it's ass too
Np shots here
Those German beers knock out anything


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Elevenpoint said:


> Absolutely not no way not going to.
> I've already lived a good life
> Covid come get me
> If that's how it's going down bring it
> ...


You said it before I could. My immune system will either beat it and become stronger, or it's my time to go. Don't need a dubious shot in the arm from the Goobermint.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

MO_cows said:


> For everyone concerned about long term effects from the vaccine, what about long term effects of the disease? I wish I could have gotten vaccinated before I got Covid. It was a mild case, felt like a cold with fever and aches but at the end I lost my taste and smell for a few days. That means it was in my brain which really worries me. Like how chicken pox lurks for years and comes back as shingles, what might Covid do later?


The "vaccine" doesn't prevent you from getting Covid. You can be fully vaccinated, still get Covid, and still suffer whatever long term effects there may be.

This isn't an either or thing.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

If you are able to lessen and fight the infection faster then there should be less long term problems. Less damage is done to your system. The vaccine is good for that.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

painterswife said:


> If you are able to lessen and fight the infection faster then there should be less long term problems. Less damage is done to your system. The vaccine is good for that.


I'm just not comfortable with the amount of "should be" statements in this entire production pretending to be "will be" statements.

My common sense tells me that I've already had Covid-19 and likely I am just as protected from the next mutation round as someone who has been given a vaccine that is not really a vaccine and hasn't really gone through any sort of rigorous testing and is proving to be of questionable protection against new mutations. I'm going to go with what my brain says because I really question the stuff coming out of the brains of some of the people who insist on telling me what to do on not only this matter but on other matters where I see a complete lack of logic or reason. 

Maybe if they come up with an actual vaccine that prevents coronavirus infections I'll get on board. I'm not really an annual flu shot person either.

*Not you personally, just from vaccine-thumping proponents in general (mostly at the government and media level). 

**As an aside, I have not had caffeine yet if anything I typed makes anyone go cross-eyed.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

You don't have to agree with anything I post but I will counter your posts if I think your info is incorrect or not complete. 

Everything is about the immune response. A better immune response, less damage. For many, the outcome is better in the short term and long term from a vaccine. Less infection, less hospitalization, less death.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

todd_xxxx said:


> I agree with the sentiment but that doesn't really outline a path to changing it.


Start by not using Google as your search engine. Some other search engines will open your eyes by listing sites Google doesn't want you to see. As the government is now involved with monitoring various social sites, I'm sure they are doing the same with Google.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

painterswife said:


> You don't have to agree with anything I post but I will counter your posts if I think your info is incorrect or not complete.
> 
> Everything is about the immune response. A better immune response, less damage. For many, the outcome is better in the short term and long term from a vaccine. Less infection, less hospitalization, less death.


I think we just don't know that yet and maybe never will because I don't think that we kept actual accurate records of the initial outbreak and the odds of us keeping factual and not political statistics now are just as low. 

I think a lot of the "less infection, less hospitalization, less death" (if that is what's going on, and again, I question the record keeping and therefore any comparisons that may be made to the initial numbers) might actually be because the virus is doing what viruses do and mutating to a less deadly version. The "variants" that we're all freaking out about now. 

Or it's because a lot of people have already been infected during the early stages of this and have a natural immune response.

Or all of the above, including the jab. There are too many other variables to point at the vaccine alone and say, "This is why things are getting better," especially when you consider that less than half the country has had the full vaccine dose and there has not been enough time or intellectual honesty to do a long running study on long-term outcomes.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Hiro said:


> You never can be certain who is going to suggest and plan kidnapping government officials and why. They may not even be beside you at the arraignment.


Hell, they may even be sitting across from you, on the prosecutor’s team.


----------



## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Clem said:


> That seems to be some ridiculous nit-picking designed to somehow make me think my terminology is wrong.
> 
> If a reader can't understand what I'm saying, this song ain't for them.


Your termonology is a broad brush.

We (my family) gets flu shots every year. Everyone is up to date on all vaccinations, except for one.

If one assumes I am 'anti-vax' because I refuse to put an experimental drug pushed into mass use during an 'emergency' it my body, they are sorely mistaken.


----------



## exodus (Jun 18, 2012)

Like HD rider was, I am on the fence with getting the vax. Couple years younger, haven't been to a doctor since my pediatrician. Exercise regularly never junk, or fast food. Still looking for solid information to help with my decision. Just finished a podcast by Sam Harris his latest. I respect his opinions on alot of subjects. Still searching but leaning towards no.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

todd_xxxx said:


> If an effective treatment were found, it wouldn't matter if the vaccine was harder to get approval for, because they would be no pressing need for one. Again people seem to think the government had some vested interest in vaccinating people, and that interest wasn't too protect people from covid. That doesn't make sense to me. What is the reason they just want to vaccinate people? Money doesn't make sense. They can charge anything they want for the treatment, and they are giving the vaccine away, so again, what is the sinister motive behind the vaccines?
> 
> The entire country lost money with the lockdowns. Whether the fed just prints more doesn't change the impact it has.


It is not about health
It is about control
It is about making it even more "us vs them" mentality

You see, if all our time is spent bickering about this, then we don't see what other nefarious acts are being perpitrated by the politicians.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"


----------



## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

todd_xxxx said:


> I guess that will always be true. I read the medical research available to me, but *if there is research that isn't allowed to be published or is suppressed that contradicts the research I can see, than yes, it's impossible to make an informed decision*. Be that as it may, all anyone can do is make use of the information that is available. What other option is there?


And the bolded, my friend, is why many of us are skeptical and wary of the bombardment of the messaging to get the vaccine at all costs. And yet we are summarily cast as being anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists, unpatriotic, idiots, and on and on; some labels worse, some more benign but _all_ insulting and dismissive.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Mish said:


> I'm just not comfortable with the amount of "should be" statements in this entire production pretending to be "will be" statements.
> 
> My common sense tells me that I've already had Covid-19 and likely I am just as protected from the next mutation round as someone who has been given a vaccine that is not really a vaccine and hasn't really gone through any sort of rigorous testing and is proving to be of questionable protection against new mutations. I'm going to go with what my brain says because I really question the stuff coming out of the brains of some of the people who insist on telling me what to do on not only this matter but on other matters where I see a complete lack of logic or reason.
> 
> ...



“hasn't really gone through any sort of rigorous testing”


Be patient. Rigorous testing is underway at this time


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Riverdale said:


> It is not about health
> It is about control
> It is about making it even more "us vs them" mentality
> 
> ...


Again, it's "about control". But no one ever really says who is gaining control, what they are gaining control of, or what is being gained. 

Then you have a whole bunch of people saying "the vaccine doesn't stop covid" when that's exactly what it does in the vast majority of cases. "but it doesn't protect against the mutations". Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but guess what. The same can be said for having had Covid in the past. The entire discussion is very near pointless. Most people have already made up their minds whether they want it or not, and most of the discussions about it are just one side telling the other why their decision was stupid, or not well thought out, or they are anti vaxxers, or sheep, ad nausea. It's exhausting, and seems pointless. People are going to do whatever they are going to do, facts be damned.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

sharkerbaby said:


> And the bolded, my friend, is why many of us are skeptical and wary of the bombardment of the messaging to get the vaccine at all costs. And yet we are summarily cast as being anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists, unpatriotic, idiots, and on and on; some labels worse, some more benign but _all_ insulting and dismissive.


I get it. And if you do get the vaccine, you are stupid, a sheep, naive, believe everything the government tells you, following along with what happened in nazi Germany, a Guinea pig, blah, blah, phucking blah.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

painterswife said:


> You don't have to agree with anything I post but I will counter your posts if I think your info is incorrect or not complete.
> 
> Everything is about the immune response. A better immune response, less damage. For many, the outcome is better in the short term and long term from a vaccine. Less infection, less hospitalization, less death.


If a better immune response means less damage, please take the time to explain cytokine storms to me🤣


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

RJ2019 said:


> If a better immune response means less damage, please take the time to explain cytokine storms to me🤣


Cytokine storms only happen with the virus, not the vaccine.


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

robin416 said:


> Cytokine storms only happen with the virus, not the vaccine.


Not quite. Some sources say there is "no evidence" of such happening. The evidence of this particular case hasn't been removed from public view, yet.








Cytokine release syndrome in a patient with colorectal cancer after vaccination with BNT162b2 - Nature Medicine


A rare case of cytokine release syndrome in a patient on anti-PD-1 blockade that was likely related to BNT162b2 vaccination supports prospective monitoring of patients with cancer after COVID-19 vaccine administration.




www.nature.com


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

todd_xxxx said:


> Again, it's "about control". But no one ever really says who is gaining control, what they are gaining control of, or what is being gained.


Sorry if that was left ambiguous. I’ll just come right out and say it, since it apparently isn’t obvious:

THE GOVERNMENT

Now, before you point out that that was also left a bit ambiguous, I’ll point out that it’s really not. 

Who’s looking for control? Democrats, Republicans, Republicrats, The Labor Party… all of them. They are the people who’ve sought out the job of being your “better”. These are the people who, for the last 18 months, and regardless the country you live in, have told you to be afraid, locked you out of your job, taken money from you TO SEND BACK TO YOU in the form of “stimulus”. They’ve told you you didn’t need a mask, and that you were racist if you didn’t go celebrate Chinese New Year in your city’s Asian hub, and then told you that you had to wear two masks even after one was shown to be nothing more than a placebo. First they told you six feet, then it was three feet, then it was no feet- then it was “stay home” again. You couldn’t be trusted to act maturely and properly wash your damned hands with the real death count, so the death count was inflated to make sure you’d wash your hands before going… no where. These are the people who forced untested elders into the same nursing homes where your elders were locked down, without testing out of “respect for their medical privacy”, but now want to send their lackeys to your door to “talk about your immunization”. The people who want everyone over 12 immunized… unless they’re coming over the border illegally with a child sex-slave in-tow. The ones who want you to stay home, and lose your job unless your job is to go out in densely packed crowds and burn down public property; either way, they’ll be paying you… with money that stole from you and your children.

Those people.

Let yourself think it all sounds like too much of a conspiracy theory, if that makes you feel better. But, if you have one more lucent thought before you go back to sleep, let it be that they DO have control now, and they DID each and every one of those things mentioned above.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

RJ2019 said:


> Not quite. Some sources say there is "no evidence" of such happening. The evidence of this particular case hasn't been removed from public view, yet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure how much weight this example carries. The patient was already challenged with cancer. Challenged with drug interactions. Challenged receiving chemotherapy.


----------



## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

robin416 said:


> Not sure how much weight this example carries. The patient was already challenged with cancer. Challenged with drug interactions. Challenged receiving chemotherapy.


In your previous post, you said it didn't happen. When I showed you an example, you moved the goalposts and came up with excuses as to how it happened in this case.

The fact of the matter is that it has happened and has been documented. We don't know how many other times this has happened and not been documented.


----------



## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

RJ2019 said:


> In your previous post, you said it didn't happen. When I showed you an example, you moved the goalposts and came up with excuses as to how it happened in this case.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that it has happened and has been documented. We don't know how many other times this has happened and not been documented.


OK fine. If you think this carries lots of weight, go for it.


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

HDRider said:


> To get my shot.


Very good choice to get the Shot. 94% of the people that are getting C 15% of people now that said they would not get the shot is now getting the shot. There is a rush at hospitals in St. Louis to get the shot now. Hospitals have had good help in getting the Vaccines needed and giving the shots that people in this area need now.


todd_xxxx said:


> I guess that will always be true. I read the medical research available to me, but if there is research that isn't allowed to be published or is suppressed that contradicts the research I can see, than yes, it's impossible to make an informed decision. Be that as it may, all anyone can do is make use of the information that is available. What other option is there?


You could drink bleach for the virus. That is what our leader said when this all started.


MO_cows said:


> For everyone concerned about long term effects from the vaccine, what about long term effects of the disease? I wish I could have gotten vaccinated before I got Covid. It was a mild case, felt like a cold with fever and aches but at the end I lost my taste and smell for a few days. That means it was in my brain which really worries me. Like how chicken pox lurks for years and comes back as shingles, what might Covid do later?


I was going to wait awhile to get the shot. I got the virus a couple mos. after it was getting bad in the U.S. Just lasted a few days. The health department told me to go ahead and get the shot in a few weeks. I did get the shots and i will get the next shot as soon as it comes to my health department. Didn't have much reaction from the two shots i got. Some people are getting the virus that has the two shots, this is an on going thing that no one know the ans. Just have to depent on research and the government to help people get the right medical treatment. Our last president said no need to get the shot as the U.S. has it under control. LOL. So now him and his wife has had the latest shots. However he has nots come out and said please get the shot. Our new President everyday says please get the shot that will protect you and your family from this deadly virus. I do trust our government and also our medical Doctors and all others that are working day and night to find a cure for this deadly virus.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

You sure Biden was aware of what he was saying or just mumbling again, LOL


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

todd_xxxx said:


> Again, it's "about control". But no one ever really says who is gaining control, what they are gaining control of, or what is being gained.
> 
> Then you have a whole bunch of people saying "the vaccine doesn't stop covid" when that's exactly what it does in the vast majority of cases. "but it doesn't protect against the mutations". Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but guess what. The same can be said for having had Covid in the past. The entire discussion is very near pointless. Most people have already made up their minds whether they want it or not, and most of the discussions about it are just one side telling the other why their decision was stupid, or not well thought out, or they are anti vaxxers, or sheep, ad nausea. It's exhausting, and seems pointless. People are going to do whatever they are going to do, facts be damned.


Control and conditioning.
Getting people fearful of congregating.
Creating dependency on 'the state'

Political misdirection has been around for a long time, now it is being refined to new lows.
Coercion is coecion,no matter where you stand politically.

I have a number of people I knew and respected BEFORE 'Rona. The isolation and fearmongering changed them into extremists, "If you don't get this shot, you are an anti-vaxxer, trying to kill all of us, and you probably burn the rainforests, eat babies, and kick puppies, too". 
Quite a few. Some family.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Orson Welles, war of the worlds broadcast.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

101pigs said:


> You could drink bleach for the virus. That is what our leader said when this all started.


Really? He said that? Got a link for that?

Or are you just a partisan liar no better than CNN?


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

no really said:


> You sure Biden was aware of what he was saying or just mumbling again, LOL


LOL.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Really? He said that? Got a link for that?
> 
> Or are you just a partisan liar no better than CNN?


Because you asked, the whole story









Fact-check: Did Trump tell people to drink bleach to kill the coronavirus?


This piece was originally published on PolitiFact.com on June 11, 2020 Joe Biden : On COVID-19, Donald Trump said...



www.statesman.com


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Really? He said that? Got a link for that?
> 
> Or are you just a partisan liar no better than CNN?


In one of his first comments on the virus when he was still President he said that in a speach. At that time he said he had this all under control and no need to worry about it. If you read all his past speaches you should have seen that. I will not provide a link his speaches. If you want to know look up comments about the virus when he was still president. He has got his shot for the virus hve you?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

101pigs said:


> In one of his first comments on the virus when he was still President he said that in a speach. At that time he said he had this all under control and no need to worry about it. If you read all his past speaches you should have seen that. I will not provide a link his speaches. If you want to know look up comments about the virus when he was still president. He has got his shot for the virus hve you?


Link please.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

101pigs said:


> In one of his first comments on the virus when he was still President he said that in a speach. At that time he said he had this all under control and no need to worry about it. If you read all his past speaches you should have seen that. I will not provide a link his speaches. If you want to know look up comments about the virus when he was still president. He has got his shot for the virus hve you?


So that’s a “_Yes, I’m a liar_”, then?

You won’t provide a link because you can’t because he never said to drink bleach. You know that, I know that, and so does everyone who will ever read this thread.

I’m not a fan of the guy. My choice to get or not get the vaccine could not possibly have less to do with him. In fact, some of the only people I think less of than him are the ones who co-opted their brains and sense of honesty to the hysteria the state-approved media created around him.

I thought you were better than that, but I’ve been wrong before and will be wrong again.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

painterswife said:


> If you are able to lessen and fight the infection faster then there should be less long term problems. Less damage is done to your system. The vaccine is good for that.


Please provide accurate, reliable data to support your assertion.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

If drinking bleach worked to kill covid, it wouldn't be such a problem in major cities. Or at least not in the cities that still use chlorine in their municipal water.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Sorry if that was left ambiguous. I’ll just come right out and say it, since it apparently isn’t obvious:
> 
> THE GOVERNMENT
> 
> ...


They better be careful or they'll get that Monkey Pox.


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## Clem (Apr 12, 2016)

I think that the information, and misinformation is in plain sight, and that everybody should make their choice. If people die from having the vaccination, that's the price they pay for their beliefs. If people die from not having the vaccine, that'll be the price they pay. Someone who has faith in their POV and holds on, in the face of reality, well, that'll resolve itself eventually.
My beliefs are based on facts. In real life, there's no such thing as "alternate facts"
I know that I'm suppose to care about all humanity. But, to be honest. I just don't.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

You could drink bleach for the virus. That is what our leader said when this all started.

THIS IS A BOLD FACED LIE


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> You could drink bleach for the virus. That is what our leader said when this all started.
> 
> THIS IS A BOLD FACED LIE


@101pigs knows it was. That’s why he shut his lying mouth about it.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

As I see it:

Must people are not going to die from this flu.
Must of those who do get seriously sick have comorbidities
Most of those comorbidities are related to being out of shape, overweight, vitamin deficiant, poor circulation.
It seems to me then, for most people, these problems are problems of people not taking care of themselves.
SO, tell me, if you do not care enough to care for yourself, why must I care for you (i.e. masks, fake vaccine, loss of work, etc?) 

This is about control from the government on down to the individual nazi yelling at you on the street.

If we were to filter out the *selfish people who do not care to care for themselves*, than isolating and caring for those who are truly at risk would be easy, cheap, and effective.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> As I see it:
> 
> Must people are not going to die from this flu.


As I see it :

As soon as you call it "this flu", it's clear you don't know what you're talking about, so why keep reading?


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

todd_xxxx said:


> As I see it :
> 
> As soon as you call it "this flu", it's clear you don't know what you're talking about, so why keep reading?


Should I say "these flues?" That is valid too.

Watch this. Smart gal


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> Should I say "these flues?" That is valid too.
> 
> Watch this. Smart gal


If you try to say it is a form of the flu, you are mistaken, no matter how you phrase it.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> Should I say "these flues?" That is valid too.
> 
> Watch this. Smart gal





todd_xxxx said:


> If you try to say it is a form of the flu, you are mistaken, no matter how you phrase it.


What is it then?


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> What is it then?


It's an entirely different virus so no, it's not a version of a flu. It is in the same family as a cold virus.

Calling Covid19 a flu would be like calling a German Shepard a Chow Chow because they are both dogs.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

101pigs said:


> You could drink bleach for the virus. That is what our leader said when this all started.


_"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"_​​_He continued._​​_"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful." aas_​​Now, a team of researchers from Duke University has shown that *injecting *an ethanol-based gel directly into a specific type of tumor, called squamous cell carcinoma, resulted in a 100% cure rate in a hamster model. _acsh_​


> However he has nots come out and said please get the shot.


_"I would recommend it and I would recommend it to a lot of people that don't want to get it and a lot of those people voted for me, frankly," Trump told Bartiromo. _​​_"It is a great vaccine. It is a safe vaccine and it is something that works," he said. __FoxNews_​​You seem to be forgetting why we had vaccines ready so early in the pandemic.


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