# Help me diagnose my failed hive



## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

1- no signs of foulbrood or any other disease I could recognize in the nearly empty combs. They just got angry and took all honey and headed out leaving 2 cells with honey.

2- top bar hive they seemed happy in, were filling out with new wax. I had only screen on bottom- any one think they disliked that?

3- - dunno if unhappy with things there and swarmd with queen, 

or if queen died uncertain cause or maybe even I squished her (never saw her after I brought them home but she laid eggs and new bees for several months)

or if they started getting hungry in our late summer lull- I did have sugar water in hive next to comb but maybe they didn't find it

4- Looked great lot of healthy comb/honey, few weeks later buzzing angrily so I backed off (this is probably when they were heading out or were being robbed), week later all gone- in August/September timeframe last year

TIA!

Getting two nucs this year, with same hive and another topbar with more room for the regular sized frames (last year had them in super on top of top bar, then at right angles in topbar- think queen never eft that area re where brood stayed but honey and wax all over topbars.


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## beegrowing (Apr 1, 2014)

Sorry I didn't see this until now. You've probably researched it all.
Anyhoooo....It IS true that bees in a top bar hive do need the screen bottom covered by a floor in most cases. On bee forums opened screen bottoms are Always losing bees for people. Also I hope your top bar is 4 or more feet long because they swarm out of short ones Fast. Some TBs have a pull out floor under the screen (or a swing down door) to block light and drafts but the screen can still be used for mite checks(which is what they are For).
Bees Do take honey before they swarm and they swarm With their queen. A bunch of queenless bees usually get confused and "mope" instead of swarming. With no queen they would have dwindled and died off slowly.
I don't understand why you had a super on a top bar...Especially in the beginning. There are NO frames in top bar beekeeping only Bars,so your explaination is confusing. The brood is begun at one end of the top bars and in the middle or back third they begin to make the bigger honey combs when the queen thinks her brood area is big enough. No super experiment should be tried until you Know your bees and have experience. Harvesting honey is by the bar,not from a super,and the blank bars from taking honey are put up front(the rest are All moved back) to open more new space for the queen to lay. She needs blank bars added in brood area from the time they fill the first bar with honey. If she runs out of brood space(blocked by honey combs)she will swarm her colony. 
I don't understand what you were doing really, but you need to study top bar hives and don't mix up top bar bee keeping with lang stuff(like supers) until After you have mastered the dynamic of top bar bee keeping with the top bar hive Only. Christy Hemenway has a great website and book and so does Les Crowder. BeeSource website with Michael Bush and hundreds of others answering questions(there is a top bar only forum SECTION there) would help you sort out what you did wrong.
Sounds like the queen never liked the set-up but waited until she had a big colony to leave.....I think? If you didn't treat them for mites she could have been driven out by them too by that time of year....even if you didn't See them.
Hope this helps a little.
Having two new hives is a good thing! but don't do what you did last year! Managing a top bar hive is not the same as managing a lang. Some of your basics(like the super thing and talking about frames) didn't read sensible to me...hard to figure out what you really did there. You can Really have a lot of fun with "pure" top bar hives but remember you'll only get a gallon or two of honey from them;starting the second year. If you want a lot of honey-to sell or something-and you Need supers-then you should have Langs,not top bar hives!!!,period. 
I'm a third year beek that has had Only top bar hives and went from one to 3 hives. Gone through two winters with no losses so far,although no expert,I'm not just blowing smoke at ya either. :happy2:  I'm having a blast,at age 61,with my top bar hives and I hope you get your hives assembled correctly,and bees placed inside,and inspection and manipulation-of-comb placements system straightened out, so you can enjoy it too!!! Best Wishes!!!!!!
PS- Your bees did not "swarm". When bees swarm they leave brood and the nurse bees there with a new queen cell the remaining bees raise as their new queen. The old (original)queen leaves with her fliers and drones. Your bees "absconded"....that's the terminology for when they All leave. A "beek" is a bee keeper! So you are a new Beek! Welcome to a new world and new language!giggle.


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Beegrowing thanks for your advice. I will have bottoms on these TBHs. The hybrid that makes no sense to you is because I got a langstroth nuc- 5 frames which I put in an 8 frame super with some topbars- to bring it home. I got the bees exiting that through the TBH and they began building in the TBH especially as I rotated the TBs from the super to the TBH but I never saw my queen after bringing them home. This year no hunchback TBH (with super on top)- will move frames right off into TBHs from the supers. The straightsided one, parallel to the TBs. The slope sided one, perpendicular to the TBs on a frame.

Of course I am nervous of losing my queen or hurting her when I shift the frames. Would it work to carry my queens separate then drop her onto the bars once I install them? If so how would you carry them? (The beek I'm buying from may have a way if he agrees with my plan.) (And I'll be sure to get each back with her specific hive)


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