# Terrible Hunting Partner.....



## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

He can't hit the broad side of the barn..... The issue is I hunt alone. :doh:


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

There is a story told by an old Norwegian of a moose hunt where the hunting partner of said Norwegian shot twice at a moose failed to bag the moose, where upon our Norwegian friend told his partner, "Shoot again, I don't think he heard you".

Perhaps herein lay the problem; _your_ partner needs a louder gun?


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

stanb999 said:


> He can't hit the broad side of the barn..... The issue is I hunt alone. :doh:


Practice, practice, practice!  The more you shoot, the better you get. True, some people have more of a gift for marksmanship than others, but everyone can improve with practice.



Haggis said:


> There is a story told by an old Norwegian of a moose hunt where the hunting partner of said Norwegian shot twice at a moose failed to bag the moose, where upon our Norwegian friend told his partner, "Shoot again, I don't think he heard you".
> 
> Perhaps herein lay the problem; _your_ partner needs a louder gun?


That was funny!


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## jamesdel (Mar 21, 2006)

just depends on how you practice ! 
Jim


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## ChristieAcres (Apr 11, 2009)

Hmmm, reminds me of a recent conversation I had with DH. He was exhausted and telling is parents how many hours he put in working (a lot, like usual). I stopped him short and told him that he should have a serious talk with his Boss, who is a real slave driver. His parents laughed, HE IS HIS OWN BOSS.

Have you had your eyes checked lately? 

At 16, I went "target practicing" with my "new" boyfriend. He was patiently telling me how to hold the gun, how to handle it, and then how to aim at the target. Of course, I just played along...then aimed and hit every target dead-on. He quickly suggested I let him try the gun again, so I handed it back to him. He proceeds to not do so well, then says it must be some fluke and hands the gun back. I smiled, not telling him..., then shoot very accurately once again. Important to note here, semi-automatic little 25 with a pearl handle and a rather inaccurate gun. That explains his inaccuracy, but what explained my accuracy? Shooting handguns/shotguns since age 7 and knowing how to compensate for inaccuracy (yes, I admitted it after he gave me that cute little pearl-handled gun). He then bought a more suitable gun for a "guy." 

Yep, practice makes perfect, or at least great improvement...barns are awful big...sure there is nothing wrong with your vision?


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

lorri belive the term for that compensating is "kentucky windage" or at least thats what I heard reffered as.

so stan what are you shooting rifle,shotgun,hand gun,bow? 

scope,irons,pin sight?

if your useing a scope might be off, if irons the back adjustment may be set wrong, pins in the wrong place.

what ever your shooting, learn to shoot on the end of a breath that is before you take your breath steady on the target take your breath and when you reach the end of your exhale is when you sqeeze.

when you aim you really need both eyes open , gives you depth perception and a wider field of view, can be a little hard to get the hang of I still squint one eye every once in a while just a bad habit.

maybe you should switch the way your shooting, I can shoot either way left or right, bow or gun and even though Im a lefty I have to say Im more consistant shooting right.

and yup pratice pratice pratice, once you get it its like riding a bike (at least till your eyes go)


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## mdharris68 (Sep 28, 2006)

I was taught to shoot by a guy that was a state champion trap shooter for twelve years running. Here is what we did; We took daisy bb guns and half pint milk cartons stuffed with paper towels. Usually about ten paces apart, we would take turns throwing the carton up about five feet over our head while the other shot. It's all about learning how to handle the gun, and properly mounting it every time. The advantage to the bb gun, is no recoil or noise. You could just set up targets around you place and go out and shoot ten or so shots a day at various distances and learning how to compensate for wind and so on. It may seem kinda simple but it worked for me. It's all about practice, practice and more practice and when your tired of practicing, you should practice more.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Well I'm shooting a 30-30 with a scope. All shots are under 100yards... I hit targets all day.. 2-3" groups 40 and 100 yards not trying hard at all. Rifle is sighted in at 75 for zero.

The deer was at less than 100 yards..... about 85. I took time and moved as close as I dared. I braced myself against a large tree. He turned broad side. I carefully aimed, pulled the trigger. Saw him in the scope after the shot for a second. He ran away.......

I Think the issue is the smallish size of the 30-30. It may have wounded him but he was able to run. Due to where I'm hunting they really have to be knocked right down. It's brush for hundreds of acres in all directions, that you can only see 10 or so feet max while crawling on your hands and knees. So if they run more than 100 yards, you will never find them.

So should I switch to
30-06?
A slug barrel with scope for my shot gun?
Or? 

Really need instant knock down power. It has to be like a light switch.

I read that a bunch of folks that use the 30-30 go for shoulder or spine shots.... It's also written that folks go for head shots to put them down. Is this really practical?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I Think the issue is the smallish size of the 30-30. It may have wounded him but he was able to run.


No cartridge will always put them down on the spot.
At the range you described, the 30-30 is all you need.
Maybe what you need to practice is your tracking skills.

Always go directly to the spot the deer was standing and start looking for any signs of a hit. A good hit leaves a good blood trail,

Never assume you missed just because a deer runs.
You can shoot ones heart out and still have it run 100 yds

Carry some surveyor's tape or a roll of toilet paper to mark any blood drops you find.
Go SLOW and look carefully, because often all you'll see at first is tiny drops.

If I were you , I'd go back and look for that deer ( assuming this just happened)


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> No cartridge will always put them down on the spot.
> At the range you described, the 30-30 is all you need.
> Maybe what you need to practice is your tracking skills.
> 
> ...


I spent most of yesterday looking.

I also brought out the dog in the afternoon. She has helped me find them in the past... One went about 1/4 mile into the brush. She made a bee line... But yesterday she didn't even find a trail. Tho, it was raining all day.

The sad fact is I figure I must have hit it... That is why I'm done hunting buck for this year. I got my one even if I didn't "get it". I really need to make a change so they will be more likely to fall right over. In the past I've had to make as many as 3 shots to knock them down. Unless I hit them in the shoulder. This way they aren't put out, but they can't run. This really isn't ideal. Because you loose meat and they suffer. Which is what I wish to avoid. I'd like to have a round that can put them down when hit in the area of the lungs/heart right away. Not just make a tiny hole...in and out.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

you don't need more gun you need more practice. more game has been killed w/ a 30/30 than any other centerfire cartridge and it still does the job well. you also may want to consider working out & learning correct technique.
2-3" groups at 40 yds is poor technique
not trying hard is being lazy
every shot should be made w/ max effort to develop consistant performance.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Pops2 said:


> you don't need more gun you need more practice. more game has been killed w/ a 30/30 than any other centerfire cartridge and it still does the job well. you also may want to consider working out & learning correct technique.
> 2-3" groups at 40 yds is poor technique
> not trying hard is being lazy
> every shot should be made w/ max effort to develop consistant performance.



The fact that the 30-30 has killed many is moot. I have killed many myself with it, my father has gotten at least a hundred with this very rifle. He even finally admitted today on the phone, that years ago they just started doing head shots with it because they always ran. He said... If you go for a head shot, it's miss or kill, no muss, no fuss. They got too tired of looking for deer by flash light. He suggests that I learn to do head shots or get something bigger. What do you all think?

Which would be best over all the slug or the 30-06?

Because all the shots I take are less than 100 yards the slug would be accurate enough. But it's actual energy delivered is not unlike that of the 30-30. But unlike the 30-30 it's not gonna just fly through making a tiny hole on both sides. The 30-06 on the other hand delivers about 150% of the energy with a similar grain bullet, and can deliver as much as 2 times the energy if a larger bullet is used. It would seem like a no-brainier to go with the 30-06 but It's not a cheap option at all. Being that I'd have to buy a new gun. Where it would only be a barrel if I go with the slug. 


which do you suggest or even something different?


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

ya stan thats what I shoot though I never had them go far, but if your worried bout a runner your right head shot, lot of folks poach them with 22's and a head shot.
that 30-30 will punch harder and farther then a 22. the other plus is you dont waste any meat. thats what Im after is meat, horns are nice though dont need a trophy mount I need the freezer full!


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## coso (Feb 24, 2004)

Have seen deer with bottom jaw blown off. Not a head shot fan. Would not be a good way to die !!! If you want them down break the shoulders. Yep you'll ruin some meat. I have a buddy that shoots a 7 mag for South MO deer they still run. But if you put it through both lungs they don't go far !! It's all about shot placement.


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

Not a head shot fan myself. Too many broken jaws and if you've ever sat looking at a deer you didn't want to shoot but had to out of mercy for the animal you may understand. Even with the pain of having that lower jaw hanging loose, the instinct not to starve to death makes them attempt to feed. I killed one like that, hope I never have to again.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

foxfiredidit said:


> Not a head shot fan myself. Too many broken jaws and if you've ever sat looking at a deer you didn't want to shoot but had to out of mercy for the animal you may understand. Even with the pain of having that lower jaw hanging loose, the instinct not to starve to death makes them attempt to feed. I killed one like that, hope I never have to again.


I totally agree...

I think I'll go with the 30-06. @ 180 grain. It should contain enough energy to cause kinetic shock, this causes the nerves to be overloaded and it passes out instantly. 


Live and learn...


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## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

I've found that the Winchester power points and the Federal HiShok 30-30's do a tolerably good job of stopping deer. The wide meplat on the bullets may ruin the long range aerodynamics but under 200 yds i've had good luck with 'em..:icecream:


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

stanb999 said:


> I totally agree...
> 
> I think I'll go with the 30-06. @ 180 grain. It should contain enough energy to cause kinetic shock, this causes the nerves to be overloaded and it passes out instantly.
> 
> ...


I mean no disrespect but you've been given some very bad information here. As others have said, it's not what you shoot them with, it's where you shoot them. *No* hunting round will drop deer instantly all the time. It just doesn't work that way. I once saw a deer shot through the heart with a .375 H&H. A rifle commonly used to hunt cape buffalo and elephant. The deer still ran almost 100 yards.

I don't think you need a new rifle. You need more target practice. It would also help to get in some practice tracking. On the other hand, if you've lost confidence in your .30/30, it wouldn't hurt anything to upgrade to a .30-06. As long as you practise enough to be proficient with it.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

A neck shot will also drop them where they stand.

Aim for the wide part of the neck, down low, just ahead of the shoulder. You'll not only take out the spinal cord, but usually take out the arteries at the top of the heart. He'll drop on the spot, and be completely bled out by the time you can walk to him.

Edited to add: You don't need to get another gun. The .30-30 is perfect for the type of hunting that you do. You might try a different bullet weight and type. I like the Remington core-lokt. Practice with it and learn where to put the bullet to drop him where he stands.


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## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

The 30-30 is absolutely enough gun for deer!!! Please, please, please don't think that getting a 30-06 or any other super magnum deer rifle will drop deer all the time on the spot. Deer will almost always run. 

If you don't want them to run you need to read up on, and do a some research on the "high shoulder" shot. It will put down deer on the spot most of the time. 

I can't say this strong enough. If you can't find a deer hit with a 30-30 you didn't hit it right. That is operator error not gun error. Any other gun will give you the exact same results!

Mike


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I think I'll go with the 30-06. @ 180 grain. It should contain enough energy to cause kinetic shock, this causes the nerves to be overloaded and it passes out instantly


It doesnt matter what you shoot a deer with.
*No cartridge* will put them down instantly 100% of the time.
You get more *shock effect* with lighter bullets in large calibers
Heavy weight bullets expand less and penetrate more, leaving a smaller wound channel.

The key to *killing AND finding* deer is *shot placement*, and learning how to find and follow a blood trail


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I am with Bearfootfarm on the shot placement and with coso on the location. I place the shot high in the shoulder and if done correctly seldom do the deer travel. I have already filled the limit (2 bucks and 4 does) and am now into additional doe tags this season. I share the meat with those that need help or cannot hunt. Yesterday was a good hunt, 2 fell where they were standing and a 3rd one ran less than 30 yards. Browning A bolt 270 cal 150 grain cheap Remington core lokt bullets. Distance typically shooting over the pasture is 150 to 225 yards with Leupold scope.


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

Yep, the A-bolt w/150 grain is what I use and I've had no complaints. Before that I had a 25-06 custom that I gave to my son. I traveled 60 miles to buy a new 25-06 but they had none in stock, so I bought the 270. Shot placement with the 25-06 was a bit more critical but I over the years I had it, I don't recall losing many deer. 

Bottom line is you can go with what you have, just have to adapt yourself to it. My favorite gun is an 870 Remington with 000 buckshot. But with the advent of mostly food plot hunting plus my age, I now use a rifle. I would go to the woods any day with a 30-30 and not worry at all about it. Settle down, take a deep breath, let out half of it.....now squeeeeeeeeeze that trigger.........don't pull it.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Not to be coy.... But you southerners have small deer to what we have in the north....This deer was around 250 lbs... He wasn't huge for this area. Just full size. Imagine if you will your small deer walking in 3 ft of snow pack.... It would be half way up their sides. They would starve in one season. So the deer here and what your hunting aren't the same.

Here is a picture of a yearling doe.... She was about 150 lbs. This is a deer we call deer veal. She was the smaller of the two. 

Hosted on Fotki


So saying that a 30-30 is standard fair for a 150 lb deer has little bearing as well. I don't disagree that it works in an area where the deer are smallish and can run. But here neither is the case. In fact everyone had told me that it was small for the deer. Kinda tiny. They all use 30-06, 7mm, 8mm, 303. So I was on the smallish side and I knew it, but I figured I could make up for hitting power with accuracy. It turns out it's not the case. Because I need them to pile on spot. I just wish I hadn't listened to magazines, tv and Internet posts and listened to neighbors and friends that told me different all along. I'd have a freezer full of meat and a nice large buck.


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

You're a southener compared to some of us who have posted on this thread. The fact remains, the .30-30 is plenty of gun for any whitetail deer that ever walked inside of 150-200 yards. And it is still the case that there is no magical round that will drop a deer in its tracks every time. No matter where you live, where you shoot them is more important than what you shoot them with. As an example, the deer that I mentioned seeing run almost 100 yards after being shot through the heart with a .375 H&H was a South Carolina doe that weighed about 110 pounds. I'm not trying to be rude but, blaming the .30-30 for your losing that deer is making excuses for your poor performance.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

Cabin Fever lives in Minnesota with some pretty good-sized deer, and he hunts with a .30-30. The gun is NOT the problem. The bullet weight you're using MIGHT be, but not the gun.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Murray in ME said:


> You're a southener compared to some of us who have posted on this thread. The fact remains, the .30-30 is plenty of gun for any whitetail deer that ever walked inside of 150-200 yards. And it is still the case that there is no magical round that will drop a deer in its tracks every time. No matter where you live, where you shoot them is more important than what you shoot them with. As an example, the deer that I mentioned seeing run almost 100 yards after being shot through the heart with a .375 H&H was a South Carolina doe that weighed about 110 pounds. I'm not trying to be rude but, blaming the .30-30 for your losing that deer is making excuses for your poor performance.



I may be south of a few ... but if your in Maine... I'm between 50 to a max of 250 hundred or miles south of you if your in Caribou. But that is not the point.

What I've been trying to say that folks can't seem to get is if the deer runs 100 yards it's gone. You can't find it. The brush is so think goats don't go through. You can see a max of 10 ft. Even then your on your hands and knees. I need it to fall instantly. Period.

Thanks to those that gave actual help and info. I'll be switching from lung/heart shots to shoulder shots to stop it, then I'll follow up with a kill shot. If this doesn't work out then I'll try the neck shot. 

To the rest, This is the first deer that I didn't get that I'm sure I shot. So get off your high horse. But I'm tired for crawling on my knees to find deer. So I'm gonna change what I do.



P.S. 110 pound doe.... Thats a Fawn... Did it still have spots?


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

ok, oops


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> What I've been trying to say that folks can't seem to get is if the deer runs 100 yards it's gone. You can't find it. The brush is so think goats don't go through. You can see a max of 10 ft. Even then your on your hands and knees. I need it to fall instantly. Period.


We get that the brush is thick. It cant be any thicker than a Carolina Swamp
That just means you need to learn where to look for blood.
Your 30-30 will shoot through those deer at those distances.

If you "need" it to fall instantly, you might as well quit hunting, because it's not going to happen every time, no matter what gun you use


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

stanb999 said:


> I may be south of a few ... but if your in Maine... I'm between 50 to a max of 250 hundred or miles south of you if your in Caribou. But that is not the point.
> 
> What I've been trying to say that folks can't seem to get is if the deer runs 100 yards it's gone. You can't find it. The brush is so think goats don't go through. You can see a max of 10 ft. Even then your on your hands and knees. I need it to fall instantly. Period.
> 
> ...




I understand what you're trying to say. I do get it. I've hunted in spruce and ceder swamps that have the same amount of visibility. All I, and several others, have been trying to say is that just going to a bigger gun won't magically solve your problem. There is no rifle or shotgun round that will drop a deer on the spot everytime. Period. They don't exist.

As far as crawling on your hands and knees to find a deer, I don't blame you. I've helped friends do it a time or two. It's no fun. And, changing to a bigger gun will probably help, it won't completely solve the problem. The fact is though, if you hunt where it is that thick, you will occasionally need to track a deer on your hands and knees. It stinks and it's not easy but it is sometimes necessary.

If you found my answers and information unhelpful, I'm sorry. I was only pointing things out as I see them. If you found my answers insulting, I am truly sorry. That was never my intent. It's just that your posts make it sound like there is some magic caliber out there that will drop a deer in its tracks each and every time. I've just been trying to point out that such a caliber doesn't exist.

And no, that doe I refered to was not a fawn. It did not have spots. It was simply a small southern deer. And I should have mentioned that 110 pounds was after field dressing. Still, don't you think that illustrates my point? If a deer of that size doesn't drop in her tracks after being heart shot with a rifle commonly used to shoot elephants, what makes you think a .30-06 will do it every time?


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## ericjeeper (Feb 25, 2006)

Heck a 45 caliber muzzleloader will put down 99% of all whitetails within 150 yards. As others have said it is all about shot placement.


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## tamsam (May 12, 2006)

DW has used her 30-30 since 1989 and she uses a soft nose bullet. We have been together since 1998 and I have never seen her have to track a deer. She usually takes out the heart and or lungs. I use a 762X39 with hollow points. Good luck getting them to fall. Sam


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Get a 45-70.


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

lonelytree said:


> Get a 45-70.


Why stop there? Get a .458 Winchester, or maybe a .460 Weatherby. Aw, heck, go ahead and get a .577 Nitro. That'll do the trick.

Amazing. :doh:


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## Menglish (May 7, 2009)

stanb999 said:


> Not to be coy.... But you southerners have small deer to what we have in the north....This deer was around 250 lbs... He wasn't huge for this area. Just full size. Imagine if you will your small deer walking in 3 ft of snow pack.... It would be half way up their sides. They would starve in one season. So the deer here and what your hunting aren't the same.
> 
> Here is a picture of a yearling doe.... She was about 150 lbs. This is a deer we call deer veal. She was the smaller of the two.
> 
> ...


Stan, just to be clear I live in Michigan where the deer are not smallish. I shoot a .243 and have for several years. I have in my possession a 30-30 winchester 94 that was my grandpa's. I too shunned it in earlier years and after shooting a couple of deer door nail dead with it decided I needed more gun. Swapped several rifles/calibers before I settled back down in power to the .243. The only reason for the 243 is the longish shots I sometimes am presented with that would be too far for the 30-30. 

One of my brother's borrowed the 30-30 this year and shot a deer with it. As near as I can figure since I've owned the gun over 20 deer have been killed with it. I can think of at least 8 family members that have killed deer with it. The 30-30 is plenty of gun for any white tail at ranges under 125 yards. 

There is absolutely no fix for poor shot placement....well short of a bazooka.

Mike


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## DeerHaven (Oct 20, 2006)

Not to beat a dead horse, but shot placement is the best answer to this issue. Maybe the shoulder shot is the best option for you? The only deer we have had fall immediately weren't shot in the heart (except 1 or 2), mostly they were neck shots or spine shots. This is with many different guns just so you know. I have had great luck getting deer with my husbands 22-250. We were given the gun and didn't feel like spending big money on a new gun when this one seems to do just fine for us. My typical shot is about 185 yards and it is so accurate that I love it. If the deer is hit in the vitals it hasn't gone more than 35 yards. I was surprised at how well such a small caliber worked for me. It seems to be shot placement that does it, the holes it makes are barely big enough to see without skinning the deer (sometimes not the best thing!)

Good luck with your gun and hunting situation. We hunt in a pasture that drops immediately 70 feet to a big creek with islands in it. The entire bottom is swamp covered. I have been fortunate not to have one get that far yet...We did have one cross the creek onto an island though...that was interesting to say the least! Happy Hunting!


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

Yeah, I hear your pain too bro. What we have here in the deep south are thickets so bad with briars and brush that sometimes you just have to walk away. One other thing we have here in the deep south is the Ohio strain of whitetail deer. After almost total depletion of the deer herd many years ago, conservationists brought them in to restock the herd. Where I hunt, a 240 lb. deer while not the average, is common. There are still pockets of that sub-specie of "small southern deer" about, but they're scattered. 

When a man makes up his mind to change his set-up for shooting deer, it is a personal thing and stems from his own experience. With the closure of dog hunting for deer in the south in almost all areas, I too had to change. Used to, I could find a good buck track crossing a dirt road and with only 3-4 people, cover many square miles of range, putting that deer out by a stander within 50 to 100 yards. That was simply experience in knowing the country, where a deer would run, add in the wind variances and the hunter/stander experience level, and to put together a good run without making a kill was the exception. Regardless of your opinion about dog hunting for deer, the art of relying on your experience applies in all aspects of the hunt.
We adapt and they adapt.
Buy a couple boxes of that 180 gr. too, it's gonna take awhile to get used to it after the 30-30 rounds you've been shooting.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Thanks all for the good advise... I'll be staying with the 30-30 it's been killing deer for better than 50 years. It was my great grandfathers, then my fathers, now mine, Hopefully my sons will use it as well. It being capable of killing a deer was never the issue. 

I think the issue is shot placement. I was shooting in the vitals, lung/heart. Instead I need to do shoulder/neck shots. This seems to be the trick that's needed to get them to fall right down. So it's what I'll do from now on. Hopefully when doe season opens in a few more days I'll be posting a picture of her.

P.S. I just saw a few doe under the apple trees in the pasture this evening... So it's looking pretty good.


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

tyusclan said:


> Why stop there? Get a .458 Winchester, or maybe a .460 Weatherby. Aw, heck, go ahead and get a .577 Nitro. That'll do the trick.
> 
> Amazing. :doh:


:nono::nono:

45-70's are known for their sheer knockdown power at short range. For neck shots they are vicious. They are generally shorter and that makes them easier to handle in the brush, thickets etc.... They are less of a hazard to other hunters than a Magnum or long range rifle as the bullets are heavier and do not travel as far. 

For the original poster it would seem a viable solution to his problem. I really like your demeaning reply. Next time keep it to yourself. (name calling removed). :hobbyhors


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## Murray in ME (May 10, 2002)

stanb999 said:


> Thanks all for the good advise... I'll be staying with the 30-30 it's been killing deer for better than 50 years. It was my great grandfathers, then my fathers, now mine, Hopefully my sons will use it as well. It being capable of killing a deer was never the issue.
> 
> I think the issue is shot placement. I was shooting in the vitals, lung/heart. Instead I need to do shoulder/neck shots. This seems to be the trick that's needed to get them to fall right down. So it's what I'll do from now on. Hopefully when doe season opens in a few more days I'll be posting a picture of her.
> 
> P.S. I just saw a few doe under the apple trees in the pasture this evening... So it's looking pretty good.


That's really cool how your .30-30 has been handed down through the generations. Good luck during doe season. Hopefully we'll be seeing pictures soon.


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## d37fan (Dec 22, 2004)

Look for some Hornady LEVERevolution ammo. They have greatly improved the old required flat nosed ammo that is suggested for tubular mag guns. The bullets have a soft rubber point and a better ballistic profile and will shoot farther and flatter. 
http://www.hornady.com/store/leverevolution/
I know this doesn't take the place of shot placement, but better ammo is better ammo.
Dale


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## tyusclan (Jan 1, 2005)

lonelytree said:


> :nono::nono:
> 
> 45-70's are known for their sheer knockdown power at short range. For neck shots they are vicious. They are generally shorter and that makes them easier to handle in the brush, thickets etc.... They are less of a hazard to other hunters than a Magnum or long range rifle as the bullets are heavier and do not travel as far.
> 
> For the original poster it would seem a viable solution to his problem. I really like your demeaning reply. Next time keep it to yourself. (name calling removed). :hobbyhors


I apologize for offending you.

The point I was trying to make was that the OP had stated in the very first post that he was not a very good shot. Then he started talking about needing a bigger gun. All I was saying (repeatedly) is that a bigger gun is NOT going to solve the problem. A .30-30 is more than ample for any deer in this country, out to 150 yards. A .45-70 is not going to kill the deer if he misses the shot.

Again, sorry you took offense.


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