# out-of-the-box thinkers needed! Electrical question



## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

This isn't alternative "energy", but I couldn't figure out what forum it would fit on!

I'm trying to build something, but have NO electrical knowledge to figure this out. 

I currently have a PVC "tree" with a cross arm. It has 4 light bulbs attached to the cross arm. The tree stands upright in a very heavy base (to keep it upright), with 4 heavy power cords fed through the PVC tree and into the cross arm, with one going to each light socket. 

From the base of the tree, the four power cords are duct taped together (sort of) and run about 15' to a box. This box has 4 buttons on it. I can step on a button and it lights up the corresponding light bulb. When I remove my foot, the light goes off. 

OK... I know you are curious, so I'll tell you why I have this. The PVC tree is all wrapped in green crepe paper, and decorated with palm leaves and bananas, and a huge, purple monkey. It's been called the "Mr. Monkey Tree" and goes to music festivals with me where I teach. As I'm playing an instrument, I can use my foot to turn on and off light bulbs which designate to the students what chord they should be playing during that particular measure of the song. It keeps me from having to call out the chords (and getting hoarse after doing this several hours a day) and gives the student a visual way to learn, too. 

The problem is, Mr Monkey is SOOO heavy to carry around and the power cords are a huge nuisance. 

I'm hoping to design something that is radio-wave/frequency or something similar. Would like to remove as much power cords as possible.

Was envisioning a single pole, set into a cement filled flower pot. Still decorated, but having the four bulbs vertical (like a stop sign) rather than the unwieldy cross armed thing. The bulbs would be powered by....um....what??? I picture something like garage-door openers for the foot control box, but that doesn't work because when you tap them, they are "on". You'd have to tap them again to turn them "off" and then immediately tap a different button for "on" again. Would be too cumbersome. 

I would *LOVE* to have a small control panel that I could mount on my hammered dulcimer that I could just tap a button to control the light bulbs....that'd be WAY sweet....but maybe impossible. 

Ideas? Suggestions???


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

How about something like this..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZH2A-NEW-DC12V-4-CH-RF-Wireless-Remote-Control-Radio-Switch-Transmitter-Receiver/111509396215?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D29171%26meid%3D6f1f053f1e56437d94ea90b7f8a5f4df%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D400307357716

The relay unit could be mounted at the base of the tree and used to operate larger relays if needed..


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## Awnry Abe (Mar 21, 2012)

Monkeys just keep getting scarier every day.

+1 for Paul's suggestion. My idea was to use 1 contactors per bulb, but I don't think you are going to find a relay that will switch 115V without a hefty coil, so you would be right back to heavy copper control lines. One consideration of the "all-12V" route is that you are still going to have to include copper (or battery) weight somewhere. If the whole idea of the re-design is to reduce weight, I would check into that before I went at it.

The wireless receivers/transmitters idea is also good, but check into response times. Your foot pedal to light control is instant right now. I haven't dealt with wireless "home control", but I do know for certain that latency exists in wireless systems (most can be at start-up, so you probably won't need to worry).


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Are there computers that control lights and can be programmed for this?

You are gifted. I practice the Tennessee Waltz on violin and try to box step. It's a challenge for me.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Any RC clubs in your area? Some of them could put together what you want with ease

Momentary switches that each control a different frequency to activate the light. They could probably do it all by battery power so you wouldn't have any cords at all.

WWW


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## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

Bret said:


> Are there computers that control lights and can be programmed for this?
> 
> You are gifted. I practice the Tennessee Waltz on violin and try to box step. It's a challenge for me.


 Hey, Bret,

I'm sure I could create a computer program that would do a "follow the bouncing ball" type of thing, and a large screen TV, but it would have to be done in advance. Normally at these things, people call out songs and we just "go for it". No planning. Have you gone to the "slow jam" at K-ville?? Sort of like that, where they call out chords, stop in the middle of a song to demonstrate a particular fingering or hammer pattern (for hammered dulcimers), etc.

Have you ever seen the tiny little blond fiddler in Celtic Women? Oh man.... when you can dance like that and play your fiddle, then you know you are SOMETHING!


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## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Any RC clubs in your area? Some of them could put together what you want with ease
> 
> Momentary switches that each control a different frequency to activate the light. They could probably do it all by battery power so you wouldn't have any cords at all.
> 
> WWW


 Sounds perfect. I'll have to see if I can find anyone with that knowledge around here. There IS a club. My ex belongs to it. I don't really want to call him. LOL.


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

cc-rider said:


> Hey, Bret,
> 
> I'm sure I could create a computer program that would do a "follow the bouncing ball" type of thing, and a large screen TV, but it would have to be done in advance. Normally at these things, people call out songs and we just "go for it". No planning. Have you gone to the "slow jam" at K-ville?? Sort of like that, where they call out chords, stop in the middle of a song to demonstrate a particular fingering or hammer pattern (for hammered dulcimers), etc.
> 
> Have you ever seen the tiny little blond fiddler in Celtic Women? Oh man.... when you can dance like that and play your fiddle, then you know you are SOMETHING!


You'll have to tell me about the slow jam. I would be interested.


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## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

Bret said:


> You'll have to tell me about the slow jam. I would be interested.


 The slow jam in usually in the mini-barn on Saturday. 11:00 or noonish?? It will be on the schedule. You'd have a ball there!!!!


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

cc-rider said:


> The slow jam in usually in the mini-barn on Saturday. 11:00 or noonish?? It will be on the schedule. You'd have a ball there!!!!


I will work toward it. Thanks!


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

How about something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Four-4-...584?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4624ec1da8


just run one power cord to the tree then wire each relay to each bulb. There many options just search "4 channel remote relay" on ebay.


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## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

Gary in ohio said:


> How about something like this
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-Four-4-...584?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4624ec1da8
> 
> 
> just run one power cord to the tree then wire each relay to each bulb. There many options just search "4 channel remote relay" on ebay.


 That is getting closer, but I don't think the remote will work. I believe you would have to press it to turn it on, and then press again to turn it off. I need it to stay on only as long as the button/switch is depressed, and then turn off as soon as the pressure is off.


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## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

Oh! Look at this! Would something like this work to control it? (Except I'm not sure what you need to "receive" the remote signal and convert to a light bulb)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-12v-4-C...029?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2579c9b095

This has the momentary switches, or whatever they are called. It's funny to read the translation, but wouldn't the last one be what I want? Hit one button and it stays on until I hit the next one? The "Inter-lock" description?

"
*Working/Output way*


*Jog:* press one button is working . loosen your finger on the same button is stop .need one channel switch and one buttons remote control ) 
*Self -lock:* press one button for one time is working .press the same button again is stop .(need one channel switch and one buttons remote control) 
*Inter-lock :* press one button is working ,press another button is stop . (need one channelswitch and 2 buttons remote control)


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

cc-rider said:


> That is getting closer, but I don't think the remote will work. I believe you would have to press it to turn it on, and then press again to turn it off. I need it to stay on only as long as the button/switch is depressed, and then turn off as soon as the pressure is off.


There are some models that are momentary, It might even be a selectable option


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## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

Ok, I've decided the remote isn't going to work. Can't get buttons big enough to use as foot-mounted. 

Next option is to wire it so it isn't as bulky. If I use 18/5 wire from the buttons to the bulbs...does that work? That'd be one "cable" instead of the 4 that I have duct-taped together.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

cc-rider said:


> Ok, I've decided the remote isn't going to work. Can't get buttons big enough to use as foot-mounted.
> 
> Next option is to wire it so it isn't as bulky. If I use 18/5 wire from the buttons to the bulbs...does that work? That'd be one "cable" instead of the 4 that I have duct-taped together.



If you need big buttons then re-wire the remote with big buttons. as noted thinking outside the box.. replace the little buttons with big ones.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Most thermostat 18-5 wire is a solid conductor.
It is intended to be used where there is no movement of the wire.
It will soon break from frequent coiling and handling.........


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## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

Gary in ohio said:


> If you need big buttons then re-wire the remote with big buttons. as noted thinking outside the box.. replace the little buttons with big ones.


 It is my understanding (from a radio shack salesman, so take that for whatever it is worth) that these remotes can't be rewired because they are solid state...no wires. Unless I want to unsolder things and figure out how to do it, which is WAY beyond my capabilities. 

I was hoping someone knew of a product already in existence that would do what I needed. I don't think it exists yet. I'll try again in another decade. LOL

In the meantime, I'm back to re-wiring the old one, and trying to make it more efficient.


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## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

Jim-mi said:


> Most thermostat 18-5 wire is a solid conductor.
> It is intended to be used where there is no movement of the wire.
> It will soon break from frequent coiling and handling.........


Thanks Jim-mi. Yeah, I don't think that will work, either. And I don't think it is meant for 120. Was a good thought!


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

The unit that I suggested is set up the way that you want it "As Is"..

*"Pay attention:
*The default setting of output way is *Momentary*; If you need other output way can leave a message to change it for you before the delivery..

*Momentary*/ Jog--Press and hold -> On; Release -> Off.*"*

Being the remote operates on radio frequency, it doesn't require a line of sight path between the two parts, like an infrared remote. As long as both ends are within 20-40 feet of each other, all should be good..

Some engineering would be needed in figuring out the wireless foot control using the remote as its "Brain". Some micro soldering, wires, switches, resistors, battery holder and you're in business. The buttons on the remote can be extended to just about any type of switch that you would need..

The relays at the base of the tree would be simple. A 12 v.d.c. wall wart would operate the relay board. Each light connected to its own relay and all could be fed with one extension cord. (Assuming your lights aren't 4000 watt flood lights..  )

I build custom stuff all of the time. We're about 3.5 hrs. apart but I'll help ya if I can..


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

cc-rider said:


> It is my understanding (from a radio shack salesman, so take that for whatever it is worth) that these remotes can't be rewired because they are solid state...no wires. Unless I want to unsolder things and figure out how to do it, which is WAY beyond my capabilities.
> 
> I was hoping someone knew of a product already in existence that would do what I needed. I don't think it exists yet. I'll try again in another decade. LOL
> 
> In the meantime, I'm back to re-wiring the old one, and trying to make it more efficient.


where you at in ohio... yes your going to need to solder but its not that big a dea and easy to learn.


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