# Beef farming 101...



## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

First off, everything in this post is my opinions based off my experiences here in Kentucky. What works here may not be the case in any other part of the country!

This will be an ongoing project by me as I find time. I will be adding pics, and other things that pertain to raising beef calves and selling them as feeders.. 

Please feel free to post additions, discussions, or disagreements on this post.. 

What does it take to be a beef farmer??

You must be self motivated, there is no one going to be pressing you to get your job done.. but some days, I'm on the tractor as the sun comes up.. and I see some pretty sunsets from the cab too..

You will learn to love and hate the weather, all at the same time.. rain makes pastures grow, but if you have hay on the ground, there goes another day, countless gallons of fuel, and one bored farm boy driving circles fluffing hay... Again.

One must love to gamble! Cattle is no sure thing... at any given time, you can see your paycheck go up or down by hundreds, if not thousands over night. Every week you hold calves, you gamble the market will hold or go up.. anytime you sell, you gamble they will hold steady or go down and won't go up.. 

One must have a good cash flow. Wether it's cash in hand, good credit, or a mixture of both... It really takes money to make money!

One must learn to read all the markets that pertain to cattle, feed, fertilizer, fuel, and so on.. if you see the cattle markets shifting down, downsize until you see something that tells you it's hit bottom.. then start buying low and wait for the shifting markets to raise again..

More in a while, going to try to find a calf and I'll try to get some pics


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

I could add to the above all day long, but lets move on..

I have found 3 limiting factors to the amount of beef calves that can be raised. they are hay, pasture, and time.. 

we run a mid range sized farm here.. about 140 acres here and cut about that elsewhere for hay each year..

so, what does it look like here right now??
hay field pics..








more pics in a minute..


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

in order to make all this hay, lets talk equipment...

2950 john deere ($18,000 used) 85 horsepower 


and the old deutz-fahr dx 3.90 ($10,500 used) 95 horsepower


twin new idea 5408 disc mowers ($4,000 each used)


the old tedder ($1,500 used)


v-rake ($2500 used)


and our newest addition.. 535 john deere roll baler ($7000 used)



more in a minute


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

now, in order to balance out the hay to pasture ratio, our farm is sub divided into 9 sections.. 5 are full time pastures that we rotate the cattle on. the other 4 are our fields we usually cut hay from. with these 4 fields, if we start running low on pasture, we simply open a gate and holler for the girls... 

In our area, 5 rolls (5x6) for each cow will get us through the winter most times.. we shoot for 6 rolls each just to be sure.. in the fall, if we are short on hay, we cull cows. if we are over run with hay, we sell it, or buy more cows.

our goal this year is 300 rolls.. looks like we'll be short this year...

now, take a close look at this next pic. this is the reason I was hunting for a new calf.. it isn't here yet, but it wont be long!!


note that her sack is full, and dont know if you can see in the pic or not, but her hind quarters appear to be dropped.. 

now for some random pics of the girls, most were hid in the woods staying cool..





black cows blend in to the background pretty good.. lol



I'll try to find the newborns and the rest of the calves for a photo op in the morning..


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## Filson (May 22, 2013)

Loving this thread! We plan to raise some beef, but just for family use (at least for now). We have much to learn though, look forward to seeing this thread of yours grow! Thank you for taking the time!


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## Bret (Oct 3, 2003)

Pretty fields kycountry.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks for the complements, we work hard keeping the fields up.

Now, I found the Hereford cow this morning.. and yep, there it was.. The point is, you don't have to worry yourself sick over when, where, or how they will have calves. Once you know what to look for, they will tell you when it's time, then keep and eye on them every morning, and evening.. With that said, it doesn't pertain to heifers...

hers is the one laying down right in front of her


and some more random pics of the girls.








more in a minute


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

Now, by the photos above you can tell, we're not picky when it comes to breeds.. lol

Too many people get hung up on what breed to buy! we buy what we can afford. It's a proven fact that black calves bring more.. usually $0.10 a pound more. So for a 400 lb calf, that 40 bucks. My point is that good black cows demand a higher price.. even if it's only $200 on a 5-6 year old cow, it's not really worth it. She would have the potential to give you 8-10 calves over the next 9-10 years. That's $300-$400 difference figured on today's market. Interest on that $200 eats any profit you would gain.. 

Now here is the real kicker.. With a black bull, some of the calves will already come black.. even out of herefords lol.. (refer to pics above)

I couldn't catch the old boy for his photo shoot today.. but got a few of the 2 year old here at the house..


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## Dixie Bee Acres (Jul 22, 2013)

You are living my dream


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## WildRoots (Nov 24, 2013)

Great looking cows and pasture. Look forward to more photos!


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## Bubbas Boys (Apr 11, 2013)

If we are wanting to raise a beef or 2 a year for family supply how much area would we have to fence off? We only have 10 acres. We also wanting a Jersey for dairy. Thanks


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## idigbeets (Sep 3, 2011)

Depends on the pasture you're putting them in BB. Here in PA/MD I figure an acre per cow per month. So with good management of paddocks, you should be able to keep one cow on 2 acres, letting 1 regrow for 30 days while you graze the other, and keep flipping back. 3 would be ideal because you could make hay off one acre, a few cuttings, and then fertilize that acre later in the year to stockpile fescue for fall/winter.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

Bubbas Boys said:


> If we are wanting to raise a beef or 2 a year for family supply how much area would we have to fence off? We only have 10 acres. We also wanting a Jersey for dairy. Thanks


Without knowing the type of upkeep, fertility, among other factors, one cannot answer this on a sure thing. Even in the same area, the stocking rate will differ. Our farm has 40+ head at all times counting cows, bulls, and 4 horses. We fertilize every spring, lime every 4-5 years, and Bush hog regularly to keep weeds and seed heads to a minimum to stimulate growth. We're at 1.5 acres per head for our stocking rate.. the farm beside us does none of the above and has a 4 acre per head stocking rate.

I'll post more info in a few.. been a busy weekend for sure


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## wberry85 (Feb 28, 2013)

Excellent thread kycountry. I will be following for sure.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

So, we have the breed issue out of the way, lets talk about adding cows to the herd...

First thing we do is worm them, give a broad spectrum Antibiotic, and into the quarantine area they go. We watch them for a few weeks and if no bad health problems show up, into the field they go.. with BABY.. 

Now Baby is no ordinary beef cow, so don't get hung up on her too much.. 

I'm always having to push her around, I'm followed just like she is a puppy...


she watches my every move


takes my buckets all the time..


but, we usually kiss and make up.. lol..


Now, the reason the new ones go through Baby boot camp is to get them so we can call them to the barns, or to move them to other pastures without hunting them up and driving them through the gates... so after this, they are ready to move on into the big herd on the lower farm..


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

Today was different for sure.. which reminds me you can never plan ahead on a beef farm... only thing I can plan on is my plans will change lol.

Today a rare thing happened.. A set of twins arrived, healthy, alert, bellies full and bedded down so momma can rest..

My day started as usual, at daylight I was off to check the cows after a pot of coffee. Running yesterday's events through the old noggin trying to remember the cows that looked close to dropping their calves, which calves I had seen the day before, and remembering to check the hay that was cut Monday if it was ready to be flipped.. 

I drive the 100+ acres of forests, pastures, creek beds, rocky hills, and all.. and I can't find the one cow that I really needed to see. After an hour or so, I forgot all about my other chores and went back to the house to gather up help.. Rolling the kids out of bed, we go on an all out cow hunt.. about 3 hours later we find her and a set of twins.. 

I drove straight back to the house, gathering supplies as I went through the barn, garage, and storage shed because this is a touchy subject that needed a watchful eye and fast actions when and if the need arises.. Within 30 minutes the bottles were clean, milk was in the truck, and a stall was bedded.. After checking in at about 1 hour intervals all day, I felt comfortable enough to remember the camera and took the wife for a photo shoot





Now, we've had this happen before and everything was fine.. but I still remember when I wasn't as prepared and lost 2 calves.. but we're not out of the woods yet as today is only day one. Over the next few days, they will be watched CLOSELY ready to intervene at a moments notice. Any sign of weakness, distance between the calves, or other unknown signs I see that tells me the cow or either calf needs help, I will be ready. 

It doesn't end there.. We will continue to monitor the cow and calves health throughout the next few months looking for signs of neglect from the cow or the two calves pulling her down to an unhealthy weight. If either happens, we will wean early or bottle feed.. which ever gives both the cow and the calves the best chance to survive and live a healthy and productive life.


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

Excellent thread and pix. Thanks KYcountry. Don't stop.


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## Filson (May 22, 2013)

KYcountry - thanks again for this amazing thread, and where it's heading! It's very cool seeing the twins, and I appreciate you taking the time to not only take some pictures but share the experience with us on here. When you get a little time (asking a lot, I know) would you mind snapping a few pictures of your "emergency supplies" that you hustled together for this experience? It'd be nice to see what sort of stuff you have on-hand! Thanks again!


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

Filson said:


> KYcountry - thanks again for this amazing thread, and where it's heading! It's very cool seeing the twins, and I appreciate you taking the time to not only take some pictures but share the experience with us on here. When you get a little time (asking a lot, I know) would you mind snapping a few pictures of your "emergency supplies" that you hustled together for this experience? It'd be nice to see what sort of stuff you have on-hand! Thanks again!


I got a few pics.. but I'll try to explain.

This for their cords.. also good for about any scrapes too..


This is a must when dealing with day old calves..


We keep a 25lb bag of Dumar brand Ultra milk based milk replacer on hand..
new bottles and nipples...
I get a towel, a blanket, 2 quart jars of hot water, banders, ear tags and pliers, rope, and 1 hickory handle from a set of post hole diggers.. 

The blue kote is for their cords. colostrum is for the calves in case they have trouble sucking at first. The towel is for drying calves or cleaning and drying hands. blanket is for warming wet calves and can be used by 2 people to carry a calf in rough country. banders and ear tagging equipment is self explanatory, The rope is to help with births, restrain a calf... the 2 quart jars of hot water is to mix milk or colostrum with in a bottle. if the water is too hot, set one jar in the creek to cool, use the other to adjust the temp.. if it's too cold, set one jar in the windshield facing the sun.. and the handle is for a walking stick and unruly mothers that get too excited while all this is going on.. 

we also have a bucket with a lid that has needles, meds, and another set of banders and ear tagging equipment in it that stays in the truck..

Also in the truck is a 12 gauge shotgun for varmints, dinner, or other critters that get too close to the garden. a 38 pistol for those close range encounters with bigger critters that's eating the garden. a 243 riffle for coyotes and other critters that I want to reach out and touch.. and all the fencing supplies, tools, and other needed equipment that keeps this farm running..


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

Today was sort of a bummer to start with.. I found #74 with the lighter colored calf out in the pasture... about 1/4 mile away from where she was last night. 

Just so everyone knows, you have to really watch where you are driving when calves first hit the ground... when momma tells them to stay, they stay no matter what most of the time.. this pic was taken out my window from no more than 3 feet away.


and here is momma keeping a close eye on it..


So I go on the hunt for the other calf.. starting from where she was heading to where she was last night.. and the calf was laying 10 feet from where it was last night.. I watched most of the day, and she wasn't going back after the calf. So we chase it down, check it out to make sure there wasn't any visible defects that would cause her to abandon it, and head to the barn with it. We bed it down in a stall and leave it be for a few hours to settle in..

The wife volunteered to operate the bottle so I could operate the lighting and camera. Wish I had done as good of a job as her, but here is what we have.. remember, it's DARK in the barn lol






and the end result, in the video you can see that she has it figured out now!


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## Filson (May 22, 2013)

KYcountry - thank you so much for taking the time to post! As a complete newbie to all of this, I'm learning a lot from this thread, please please please keep it coming!


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

Day to day operations I'm pretty familiar with I would however like to hear how you make decisions on who to cull and which and how many replacements you keep. 

Ill add that the biggest thing I've learned in my few years having cattle is that you need to be proactive more then reactive.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

FarmerDavid said:


> Day to day operations I'm pretty familiar with I would however like to hear how you make decisions on who to cull and which and how many replacements you keep.
> 
> Ill add that the biggest thing I've learned in my few years having cattle is that you need to be proactive more then reactive.


This all starts with excellent record keeping..

Our records are a pretty simple set up making it easy to keep basic records updated in the truck.. It is sheets we make in the Office program and print them out. they go on a clipboard that stays on the dash of the truck.

It looks something like this.. but I'll try to make a sample and attach it here.

Tag # / name / Bought or raised / Calved / calf tag#/ calved / calf tag # / Notes
#199 / sally / bought 4/6/2011 / 6/14/2012/ R24 / 5/23/2013 / Y14 / Excellent Milker

The above calf tag numbers start with the color of the tag, then the number..

We update this in the field, and every so often, I bring it in and update the sheets on the computer.. and File the old one in a folder.. Print the new ones and they go back into the truck.. 

Also in another folder, we keep track of cows we bought and their age when bought..

Now, about culling cows..

This would differ greatly on the operators objectives, calf market, replacement cow market, stocking rates, and so on.. but I'll try to give a few examples.. 

We are close to our maximum stocking rate, so our objective would be to get maximum production from the cows we are feeding.. We have an excellent calf market, slaughter cow market, and an average replacement cow market.

First thing we look at in culling is age. anything in the 13+ year old range is subject to the meat wagon. We also look at their calf grow out rates.. Their overall health (stiff joints, udders breaking down, calves pulling them way down before weaning age and so on)

We also look at months between calving dates.. anything above 14 months on a consistent basis, puts them closer to the meat wagon. 

In my opinion, all the above is what every operator of a beef farm should use when deciding to cull or not. The stocking rates, expenses for feeding each cow, replacement cost or heifer timing, and other factors will determine how hard to cull. 

more in a minute..


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## redhead89 (Jun 3, 2014)

Wow. This is my dream. Even if I only have a min. of 5 cows. I honestly haven't decided yet and that's a long ways in the future for me. Have to get my schooling in and find a man who'd like to live this lifestyle.


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## idigbeets (Sep 3, 2011)

redhead89 said:


> Wow. This is my dream. Even if I only have a min. of 5 cows. I honestly haven't decided yet and that's a long ways in the future for me. Have to get my schooling in and find a man who'd like to live this lifestyle.


Don't worry, we're out there


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

I can't keep records like you do. I've tried that exact method and it didn't work the paper
In my truck was always getting lost or damaged some how. Now I put notes in my phone and transfer them to my computer later on. Calves get tagged as soon after birth as possible. I try to keep expecting moms up close to the house in a smaller pasture where I can watch easily. 

My number one cull presently is mothering ability. She has to be able to calve @ 24 momths and be able to bred back and have a calf 12 months later. Can't get pulled down to much or need assistance calving. I provide little feed outside of grass and hay, except in winter when ill give them cubes or protein tubs. 

I've got some heifers seperated off now whis calves have pulled them way down. Ill feed them and get them in condition I just won't keep them or their offspring to bred. Eventually ill cull for other factors but I want to raise cows that excell with minimum inputs. Less then half of the heifers I've bought over the past 4 years have been kept. Heifers out of the cows I've kept have fared much better. I've got two moms I'd love to cull for tempermit but the raise beautiful calves and thrive with minimal inputs. 

I'm over stocked, less then one acre per pair. ill fed hay 10 months out of the year. I get cheep hay, $15 for an 1100-1200 lb bale, so I can afford to be overstocked.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

FarmerDavid said:


> My number one cull presently is mothering ability. She has to be able to calve @ 24 momths and be able to bred back and have a calf 12 months later. Can't get pulled down to much or need assistance calving. I provide little feed outside of grass and hay, except in winter when ill give them cubes or protein tubs.
> 
> I've got some heifers seperated off now whis calves have pulled them way down. Ill feed them and get them in condition I just won't keep them or their offspring to bred. Eventually ill cull for other factors but I want to raise cows that excell with minimum inputs. Less then half of the heifers I've bought over the past 4 years have been kept. Heifers out of the cows I've kept have fared much better. I've got two moms I'd love to cull for tempermit but the raise beautiful calves and thrive with minimal inputs.
> 
> I'm over stocked, less then one acre per pair. ill fed hay 10 months out of the year. I get cheep hay, $15 for an 1100-1200 lb bale, so I can afford to be overstocked.


This just shows that every operation has different objectives. We breed to what we see important and that is all that matters.

Now, in my opinion, operating objectives, and experiences, heifers bred early rarely reach their maximum potential body weight, have far more birthing problems, and have more health problems in their later years of production. Some of this can be offset with early weaning of their first calf, or a high quality feeding program.

We haven't held any heifers for 2 years. To most people, that would seem crazy, but to us, it's a good management choice. We had very few cows in the 10+ age range, feeder prices were excellent, our heifer crop was average, and head cow markets was a good buyer's market. Our heifers were averaging around $950 a head, we were buying 5-7 year old cows 4-6 months bred for $1200 last year to $1600 this year. 

Even though head cow prices are easing again, I am eyeballing a few heifers to hold this year. This is not because we can't find replacement cows. It's because we have a good group of similar aged heifers that shows excellent traits I like in my cows. All their mothers were gentle, good milkers, and their calves has showed explosive growth rates. We've also had no health problems from the group. Now I will look at their body weight at weaning, growth after weaning, and muscle definition throughout the year..

We have 8 in that group, I will likely cull down to 4 or less before they see a year old. I will hold them until they are in the 2 year old range before breeding them.

In my operation, ALL my cattle must be gentle.. My family helps work them and if one of them got hurt, I'd never forgive myself knowing I hadn't done everything within my power to avoid it. ALL my cows know me, they see me every day. I pet every new calf within 3 days of birth, bulls get banded at this time.. they sometimes get a little excited, but if they don't back off.. they get to be hamburger, it's that simple.


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

My family helps with the cattle all the time also.


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

I agree all operations are managed differently that's why I love to hear others management practices. One size doesn't fit all but if one keeps an open mind they can gleen practices they can incorporate into their own operation to enhance their existing managing style.


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

Ill add that a similar culling method is pretty common in the Beefmaster bred. I do feed my replacement heifers after weaning to get them in good condition for breeding. They have salt and mineral available at all times and protein tubs at times. I'm just really trying to cull the more expensive keepers and keep the cheeper ones.


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## kycountry (Jan 26, 2012)

FarmerDavid said:


> Ill add that a similar culling method is pretty common in the Beefmaster bred. I do feed my replacement heifers after weaning to get them in good condition for breeding. They have salt and mineral available at all times and protein tubs at times. I'm just really trying to cull the more expensive keepers and keep the cheeper ones.


Sorry for not posting in a few days.. 55 acres of hay is on the ground, another 25 to go.. Giving a chance of rain every day.. so it's fluff, fluff, and keep fingers crossed it cures before it gets wet..I'll cut the other 25 acres tomorrow and start raking the first 20 cut yesterday.. Saturday will be rolling hay, rest Sunday, rake and roll the rest Monday if it doesn't get a drink by then.. gotta love watching the sun come up, and the sun going down from the cab while purple Martins swoop all around catching the bugs the mower stirs up..

Update on the twins is bull calf still with momma, heifer calf still in the barn, both growing like weeds. 

There's some good points in these statements quoted above..

Spring time right before and during the flush growth, we feed high magnesium mineral salt, then we switch to a mineral salt with additives that help control flies... then in the fall and winter months, we feed the cheapest mineral salt we can find.

We don't use protein tubs unless we need to stretch our hay supply. BUT remember, we raise all our hay, it's been fertilized, so we know it's higher in nutrients than cheaper hay that is bought. Some years, I think the $4000+ we spend on fertilizer isn't worth it, but this year reminds me that hay isn't always cheap.. I am glad that we limed last fall and fertilized early this spring.

Same with our pastures, it's fertilized, we only feed 100lb of feed every 2 weeks or so to keep them coming into the lot. When we wean calves, they get either grain or silage depending on if we chop any that year..

Sunday, I'll try to do a more formal post.. I'm open to suggestions on what you want it to be about!


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

Normally the protein tubs go out in mid July when I still have grass but its starting to burn up. Plan to use them about 6 weeks till were getting good fall growth. I tried some liquid feed this winter, its more then I'd like to spend but I think its worth it, at least in winter, minerals are in it and it promotes good bacteria growth in the rumen. Like I said its alittle higher then I'd prefer to pay but I think they use their hay more efficiently due to the benificial bacteria in the rumen and saved me alot of hay. 

I haven't baled any hay yet. Some guys did early and some have gotten it in between rains but alot still to bale around here. I mow rake and tedd mine but my neighbor bales it. Works out pretty good that way but its one more person to schedule around. 

Good points in the mag and fly mineral.


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

If your looking for something else I'd be interested in how you work your cattle. When, how often, what shots you give. Anything other advice you'd have.


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## majiksummer (Sep 13, 2012)

I'd like an overview of your schedule for the year, when you turn out the bull, give shots, castrate bulls, wean calves, calve out, etc. and what you plan for costs. 

We are buying our own place in the next few weeks, and we have the opportunity to lease 17 head of registered angus, really good stock, for no cost the first 2 years (we would own all the calves) then the cost of 2 calves/yr after that. My husband did a favor for a friend and he says he wants to help us get a start in cattle in return. It's always been something we've wanted to get into, but figured we'd have to start out slower. We've both been around cattle our whole lives, but never in a position of managing a herd. Any advice for us starting out? My husband wants to produce registered breeding stock, particularly nice bulls, and we'd also like to build our own herd up of good quality heifers. Once we've grown our own base numbers, we'd also like to sell our excess heifers as bred heifers each year. I'd appreciate any advice or tips you could give us.


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

My first thought getting into cattle was to sell registered breeding stock. My thought was that being smaller i could maximize profits on fewer animals. I still may someday but its a hard game to get into. Alot of sales are driven by reputation which takes along time to build. You also have to be willing to buy high prices animals, at least from my observations. I'd deffently AI to a well known bull to get respected genetics.


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## majiksummer (Sep 13, 2012)

The people we're getting our stock from have been selling registered breeding stock and told my DH they would help us get into the market via the reputation that they already have, so it seems like we may have a foot in the door already, so to speak. And from what DH said we're not getting their cull cows, but really good stock, that'll be bred back to nice registered bulls before we bring them down here.


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## FarmerDavid (Jul 16, 2012)

majiksummer said:


> The people we're getting our stock from have been selling registered breeding stock and told my DH they would help us get into the market via the reputation that they already have, so it seems like we may have a foot in the door already, so to speak. And from what DH said we're not getting their cull cows, but really good stock, that'll be bred back to nice registered bulls before we bring them down here.


It sounds like a great way to get started. My inlaws are doing very well selling registered stock right now. I bought some 3-1's from them that were older cows. They were still reall nice cows just getting alittle old. The calf by their side and the ones they were bred back to are out of a bull that has some of the best EPD's in the breed and he sells a fortune in seman off of him, so basically his cows. I can't get half of what someone would give them for them. 

I'm just passing that on. It sounds like a great oppertunity I'm not trying to burst your bubble just passing on my experience.


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