# Milk doesnt taste that great after a day



## cjb (May 2, 2006)

I tell ya - this milking has been problematic ;-) I'm sure I'll get it down.

Our cow milk tastes fine the first day (after being chilled) but then doesn't taste that great in a day or two. I am being very particular about cleanliness - I clean and dip her teats in a water, soap, bleach solution. I milk right through a filter into a clean jar and immediately chill the milk.

A couple days later and it tastes like it is turning. ugh.

Any ideas?

Actually, our goat milk turns in a day or two as well and I know the fridge is cold enough.

I really want to produce our own goat and cow milk but it doesn't do that much good when the baby is the only one that will drink it


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## royB (Dec 15, 2004)

Could it be feed related and getting stronger after a day? 

I've read that any bleach residue could cause problems with milk keeping so I am very careful with the concentration I use in the rinse for our milker. For washing her udder we use either a couple drops of dish soap (can cause drying so we don't use it often) or udder wash with iodine. 

Location in the fridge may also be part of the problem. I used a digital thermometer to check different places and the top back (where the air comes out) is the coldest.

just a few ideas to bounce around

Roy


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Are you leaving the lid off the container until the milk is thoroughly cooled? This can make a big difference in the taste.


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

Suggestion... Avoid the bleach.. I would get an udder wash, something actually made to wash the udder off. It is what we use, and have good results. With one cow, less than a cap full is plenty for a gallon of water, or even half a gallon. You should be able to get it at any farm store. The stuff we use is from IBA.


Bleach IMO is a bit harsh on the teat, the udder wash conditions the udder as well.



Jeff


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## topside1 (Sep 23, 2005)

CJB, as a side note my goats milk will last 7 days plus. I've never used any type of bleach product...I'm sure Jeff is right, can the bleach.


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

There is also cell count to consider...

and chilling the milk as fast as possible..

I have had some go off quickly when one of the kids washed my milk jars, too.


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## Mickey (Aug 28, 2002)

My milk (both cow and goat) has always been good for a week or more too. I use bleach to sterilize all the equipment that comes in contact with the milk and do add a drop or two to the udder wash. What I do that's different from you is to chill the milk in a stainless steel cream can ( of course you can do it in your jar) set into a bucket of ice and water. I've always heard that it's very important to chill the milk as quickly as possible.
Mickey


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## JeffNY (Dec 13, 2004)

SCC was a though as well (Somatic Cell Count). If its high enough, chill time plays a BIG role. We have had milk sitting just about all day on the counter, actually was a glass my mother poured. Was warm, and never turned. I also wait till the cows are done milking before I turn the cooler on, no issues. BUT my scc is around 65-70,000. With bacteria at 1000...



Jeff


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

Do you chill in a ice bath for the goats milk I find this is a major factor. chill fast.
I use bleach and the state also wanted me to do a bleach post wash with no rinse. but I have not gone that far, 
I have noticed that if a cow has a high SCC the milk does turn in a day or two. kind of sour tasting- My count too is about 54,000 with less the 5 bacteria-- i have been told that late in lactation cell count goes up. I do not know if that is turn or not.
Do you have a lab you can test the count- if all else fails?
Liz


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

I don't know about a lab to have the count done. Haven't ever even heard of that. I'll ask a local dairy to find out.

Thanks for the input. I'm trying not to get discouraged. It just doesn't feel worth it sometimes. We used to buy raw organic milk at the local farm but it is $10 gallon for cow and $12 a gallon for milk.


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## AR Transplant (Mar 20, 2004)

When I was milking I alternated dawn soap and bleach. I also put the jars that I would strain the milk into on the stove upside down in boiling water, kind of like steam cleaning. I boiled every thing that came into contact with the milk. My milk would last at least three weeks, sometimes I threw out milk because I just didn't have room for it and no place to use it, but I don't ever remember throwing out bad milk.

You might try to steam every jar and bucket that you use to make sure the bacteria is killed.

I also put my milk into the freezer for 30 minutes after straining it, then putting it into the frig.

Don't give up, it really is worth it, by the way, have you tried to make any butter yet?


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

cjb-

this spring when she freshens and you are milking from day one-- you tell us how you do not know how you ever could of lived with out your own sweet tasty cows milk.
I bet ya...... Liz


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

For my goats, I use a dilute bleach water spray bottle to wash their teats. It's only 1/4 cup bleach to a gallon of water.

If the milk has a somewhat bitter taste, it would be from eating ragweed.

mary


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## 5webbkids (Jul 26, 2007)

I use a bit (several drops) of dish soap and some (splash) Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar in my udder wash. I think if you throughly wash the udder, never dipping a used rag in the water again, you will find it will help. I would avoid bleach, it could be killing the good things in the milk that help it stay fresh......I have milked goats and am new as grass to milking my cow, but the milk has not had an off taste the next day.....what lasts, anyway! I would concentrate on really getting her udder clean before milking. The massage will help her let down her milk too. Nice HOT water too. Good luck, soon you will have it licked and be thrilled to tears with your milk and it's keeping properties!
Anna


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## JulieLou42 (Mar 28, 2005)

When washing her bag, never put a used towel or washcloth back into her washwater and then wipe her down again. Used once, toss aside and get a fresh one to keep washing her with, so that you're keeping her washwater as clean as possible. There's maybe a tablespoon of bleach and a squirt of Joy in a half bucket of hot water. I've never rinsed her off, but do dry her off with one of the four towels I bring with me.

As to jars, if there's not enough space in the dishwashher, I use a sponge handled washer with Joy in the handle, plus some grapefruit seed extract in it. That's by my sink at all times.

At 34 degrees, and chilled in fridge within 30 minutes, her milk will still taste fine after two weeks. I've never left the lids off, either.


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## BarbG (Aug 17, 2005)

One thing we have found to help is to do '1st squrits" for the cats. This is just the first 5-10 squrits from each teat after we wash. It helps get the washing water off the teats and get her started. The cats love it. We also use dish soap to wash her udder and only use bleach on the rag that we use to wash with and that only every 6/7 days. We dry the rag completly between every milking beside the wood stove  That with leaving the lids off the jars in the fridge fixed our 'cowy' milk taste. We had milk today that was about a week old with NO off taste. I also make cheese with mine and have had no problems. 

With the off milk that we did have for a few days until we started all this I made into chocolate milk or pudding or something so the I could still have it. My kids really didn't even notice. Mine are pretty little though. Don't worry you'll get it figured out and you'll LOVE her. We also love our smaller grocery bill. We got our cow about the same time you did but we both grew up with cows and we LOVE her. She's a jersey/holstein cross and is giving us about 4 gallons a day. Good luck. BarbG


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## Kim_NC (Sep 5, 2007)

I grew up on a dairy farm. Only equipment was cleaned with bleach and soap solutions...thoroughly rinsed and then air dried on racks. All equipment was allowed to dry thoroughly before the next use.

To milk, we washed the cows' bags with an udder wash. Bleach is very drying to the skin....harsh on the cow. Maybe it affects the milk as well. All I can tell you in that regard is we never used bleach on the cows, and never had milk turning in less than a week.

The other points about handling are well taken too. We milked into steel pails. Milk was always taken directly to a stainless steel bulk tank (very chilled, 36-38 degrees). Although you're working in a smaller scenario (jar, pitcher, whatever), I do think the point about chilling the milk *without a lid * could be important. In our dairy bulk tank, there was plenty of room at the top of the stainless tank for the warmth to escape the milk as it was quickly chilled. Also, although the tank had covers, they were loose fitting (no gaskets, etc). 

Milk that we brought into the house was capped in plastic jugs, but was lifted from the bulk tank and quite chilled by the time jugs were poured and capped tight.

Also - we're talking 30 yrs ago. So, more modern day dairies may do some things differently. But I think the situation is very comparable to small scale milking today.


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## Kim_NC (Sep 5, 2007)

PS...your chickens would like the extra milk


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

You know, I wonder if it is the bleach. I know my hands are already dried out from it.

The other thing is, I milk through the filter with the goats, then use the same one for the cow's milk. I don't want cow's milk in he goat's but don't care if some goat's gets in the cow milk. Maybe somethingin the goat milk is affecting the cows?

I'll try the suggestions. I did taste last night's milk tonight and it was so good that I drank almost an entire quart myself. We'll see if the rest of it tastes ok tomorrow.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

There are too many imponderables in all of this and it will only be experience and trial and error that will give you answers.

One question I do have to ask though, is how long has this cow been in milk. The later into lactation she is and the closer to being dried off, will often mean that milk has a richer, stronger taste that gets stronger the longer it is kept. It doesn't taste "off", just very rich. I don't mind it but some people find it unpleasant. 

I both machine and handmilk for the house, it depends on where I am in the season, what cows are in milk and which cow I want milk from. The machine is cleaned with dairy detergent every milking (acidic) and once a week gets cleaned out with an alkaline detergent. After the alkaline wash, a bucket of hot water of at least 70C is put through to rinse and before the next milking a bucket of cold water gets put through.

My handmilking is nothing like as hygenic as some do. The udder gets washed with plain warm water and I milk her! The milk containers gets washed, rinsed and left to dry upside down. Nothing special there either. The container of milk gets put into a container of cold water until I get back to the house and then it goes into the fridge, preferably to the back of the top shelf. That milk tastes as it should for anything up to a week - I don't know how much longer I could keep it because it's gone by then!

Stick with it, Rome wasn't built in a day  

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## mamalisa (Feb 1, 2004)

Use a clean filter for the cow. The goat's milk will give the cow's milk a weird taste.

I never use bleach. Yuck! We wash with hot water, a squirt of unscented natural dish soap, and a splash of white vinegar. All jars/buckets/filter funnels are scalded after a thorough washing and left to air dry.

Milk keeps at least a week, then it happily turns itself into yogurt.

BTW, walmarts fake aveeno lotion makes a wonderful udder cream AND comes in a pump bottle so it stays clean.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

I learned two things this lactation with my cows: 1) I stopped using bleach to clean my milker. (horrible after taste)

2) I use a strainer cloth rubber banded around the top of my milk pail when I"m hand milking. It keeps the straining mess in the barn and the possible debris never sits in the milk long enough for me to carry it to the house sloshing and stirring it in to the milk.


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

I do milk through a filter but, as I said, it has been used on the goats just before. That might have an effect. Also, the cow is 3 months away from delivering a new calf and is only giving me 1-2 quarts per day. She is definitely towards the end of her lactation.

One encouraging thing - she seems to have really warmed up to me. She stands still in her stall to be milked now. I sit on a bale of straw and lean into her and she is starting to let down more easily. She also licks me when i come up to her face. Evidently, she likes me much more now that her calf is away from her.


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## royB (Dec 15, 2004)

There may be something closer and I have not actually used them yet but I was directed to Eurofins labs for testing.

They have several locations in the US and but you may have to ship to the one in Memphis for certain tests..

Roy


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

When I had goats and was trying to figure out the flavor problem, I heard all this. I supposedly wasnât washing the goat right, I wasnât feeding her right, I wasnât washing the containers right, I wasnât cooling the milk right, etc.

I got rid of the goats and got a cow, havenât changed a thing, and voila, I havenât had a flavor problem even once. I just throw it in the frig in 2 quart jars. Found some lost in there for 15 days and it still tasted fine.

My bet is that there is something about your cow that is the problem, or like Ronney said, maybe just the stage of lactation, though I havenât had a problem in late stages.

I donât see how washing the udder makes much difference as long as crap isnât falling in the milk. How much bleach is going to be at the end of the teat getting into the milk? Very little if youâre washing it off with water. Though a Â¼ cup bleach per gallon is an awfully strong solution, especially to spray directly on skin.


Bleach dissipates from water, quicker if waterâs hot. Thatâs why a stock bleach-water solution must be in a closed container and made with cold water.

I sanitize my rag in dilute bleach (2 tsp per gallon water = 100 parts per million). I then throw the rag in the wash bucket and add hot water. By the time it gets out to the cow, I doubt thereâs much bleach left.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

For two weeks one summer the guy that owned the farm I was working into ownership on didn't get the feedlot cleaned on schedule and mastitis started to run rampant through the herd. He had me predip and postdip with straight clorox!!!!
Didn't affect the taste any, we still drank a gallon a day or better, and little kids can be verrry picky.


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## bumpus (Jul 30, 2003)

.
When milk sits for a while the cream separates and comes to the top.

If you pour a glass it will be mostly cream and later there will be no cream in the milk and it will taste different.

First thing is to mix the cream back into the milk by turning the container up side down *slowly* and couple of time and it will mix together.

NEVER and I repeat NEVER shake the milk because it will cause the milk to spoil much quicker.

Goats milk will do this spoiling faster than cows milk by shaking which destroys the milk and it's flavor.

Just turn it upside down and right side up two or three times, 
but NEVER shake it to mix it.

bumpus
.


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

Interesting Bumpus. I ALWAYS shake the milk. Maybe that's part of it.

The milk is consistently tasting great for 24 hours then turning cowy. I'm obviously doing something wrong.


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## bumpus (Jul 30, 2003)

cjb said:


> Interesting Bumpus. I ALWAYS shake the milk. Maybe that's part of it.
> 
> The milk is consistently tasting great for 24 hours then turning cowy. I'm obviously doing something wrong.


A woman who has raised goat for many year told me about the milk spoiling quicker is you shake it.

I many be using the wrong term or word but I think she call them milk globules or something like that will not stand a lot of shaking. Mostly on goats milk which she sad was much more sensitive to shaking and breaking down and cause it to taste bad and start spoiling very quick.

She said to take the jug of milk and simply turn it upside down gently and slowly and hold it for a few seconds and then do this a couple of times and the milk will last much longer, and it will mix the cream if held upside down for a few second.

Works the same with any other milk even store bought.

Hang in there now and don't throw the cow out with the sour milk.  

bumpus
.


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## JulieLou42 (Mar 28, 2005)

It's not the bleach, guys! I wash about 12 of her small washtowels every 3-4 days in the hottest water available with 1 cup of bleach in it in the wash machine. Rinse and dry either on line or in dryer. Her gallon plus of wash water has about 1 tablespoonful of bleach in it, along with the squirt of dish detergent, and is hot enough for me to bathe in.

It's the goat milk filter ... OR her food. 

If you don't want to use the regular milk filters, get some white cotton batiste yardage from Fabric.com to cut up and use for filters, tho' the milk filters may do a better job. These will definitely take more labor to use than the regular milk filters, which are tossed after use...$7 per 100. [I use the batiste for my cheesecloth.]

This assumes use of S/S bucket.


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## darbyfamily (Mar 16, 2005)

cjb said:


> I don't know about a lab to have the count done. Haven't ever even heard of that. I'll ask a local dairy to find out.
> 
> Thanks for the input. I'm trying not to get discouraged. It just doesn't feel worth it sometimes. We used to buy raw organic milk at the local farm but it is $10 gallon for cow and $12 a gallon for milk.


WOW... we get milk from the Amish dairy here for $2 a gallon!!!! I buy 10 gallons at a time, or did when we had a second fridge, and it would last us for more than a week!


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## Mickey (Aug 28, 2002)

I really have to agree with Julie here. I've been using bleach for probably 20 years or more and haven't ever had any problems with it. That is assuming none gets into the milk. The op said that he was being very clean so again, assuming that nothing is getting into the milk and it's being chilled quickly, I would suspect it might be something she's eating too.
I know that some goats have awful tasting milk no matter what you do (Togs are notorious for producing goaty tasting milk), and while I suppose it would be possible with a cow as well, I've never experienced it.
Mickey


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

She is in the barn and just eating alfalfa, grass hay and a little grain. Can't imagine that would make her milk taste bad.

The most logical explanation to me is the end of lactation cycle statement. Maybe it is just concentrated ?

It tastes good for one day, then its bad.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

Diet sounds fine. I was interested in what guys were saying about the SCC. That is the somatic cell count, and it goes up with mastitis. I have had a bad experience getting a cow from a dairy which "forgot" to tell me about her chronic mastitis they couldn't clear up. Low-grade type of mastitis that isn't obvious.

Anyway, seems that mastitis causes increase in milk of white blood cells (a type of somatic cell) which are needed to fight the infection. The white blood cells have enzymes which will break down the protein and fat in the milk causing poor flavor.

I hope this isn't your problem, but it is something to be aware of. Here's some reading:

http://www.nmconline.org/articles/sccquality.htm



> Mastitis causes milk SCC to increase. During mastitis, the types of somatic cells present in the milk change to mostly white blood cells, which add many proteolytic and lipoytic enzymes to milk. In addition, more blood serum leaks into the milk than usual. Dairy product quality defects resulting from mastitis are due to enzymatic breakdown of milk protein and fat.
> 
> Protein breakdown in milk produced by cows with clinical or subclinical mastitis is caused primarily by an enzyme called plasmin. Plasmin is found commonly both in milk and in blood plasma and can cause extensive damage to milk casein in the udder prior to milking. When milk is cooled, plasmin breaks down casein (a type of milk protein) much more slowly. Unfortunately, plasmin is extremely heat stable. Therefore, pasteurization cannot inactivate it and plasmin will continue to damage milk protein during dairy product manufacture and storage. Plasmin damages milk casein by breaking the orginal large protein chains into smaller fragments. As a result, the milk casein does not curdle properly during cheesemaking, and some small casein fragments and an increased amount of milk fat are lost into the cheese whey. This causes low cheese yield. Cheeses made form high SCC milk (800,000 to 1,000,000 cells per ml) also have a higher incidence of unclean flavors and pasty textures.
> 
> ...


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

I could have her tested but, since she is due Feb 6th, I will be drying her up shortly anyway.

She has very little milk right now - I'm getting a little over a quart when milking her once per day. I will drink it right after chilling but throw any away that is left over 24 hours as it just doesn't taste that great.

I look forward to getting fresh milkl in Feb. If there are flavor problems then, I will address it.

This plan sound ok to all of you or should I be testing her count now?

On a related topic: her personality has improved drastically since the calf left. She seems to really like me and I can lean into her and milk her even without feed in front of her. She licks me when she sees me and bawls when I leave the barn. Unforunately , she is decidedly not halter broke and pulls away when I pull on her. I have to drive her from the rear. My son is fencing a small pasture next to the barn so I will be able to start putting her outside in nice weather.

Keeping a stall clean with a cow in it is just not my idea of a good time.

BTW: DJ - are you the guy that I talked to about buying your cow about a year ago? I can't remember but seems like it.


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## JulieLou42 (Mar 28, 2005)

CJB, YOU are her new calf! and she'll try to treat you accordingly, whatever that may be!!!

Good job!


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

YOU should treat her with a dry treat in case it is mastitis- get 4 tubes of tomorrow- this wil help clear or prevent problems when she freshens.
Do you have a CMT test for mastitis I for got to ask you?
Liz in NY


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## gone-a-milkin (Mar 4, 2007)

I was thinking that too, CMT...Its the 'California Mastitis Test" kit. Its 2 solutions that you mix together and add the milk. It is a good first indicator of high SCC.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

CJB,
Yes, we spoke about a 3/4 Jersey heifer I had for sale - she went to a local guy who grew tired of his 10+ gallon daily Holstein for a family cow.

If it's unclear, "Tomorrow" is a brand of udder antibiotic used as preventive treatment when drying up, available in many feed stores. Today brand is for acute mastitis.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Just a thought for your taste problem. What do you keep your milk in ? Glass, plastic? Do you sanitize your containers prior to pouring in the milk. Milk protiens can build up on both glass and plastic and thus causing the milk to start to turn sooner.


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

I milk into a glass jar through the filter and store in the same. The jars are run through the dishwasher on high heat first.

I may have figured out the problem. The filter has white clumps and stringy pieces of milk in it so maybe mastitis? I'm continuing to milk her but we're not drinking it.


WHat is the best treatment if so?


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

You want to clear this up before you dry her up- instead of tomorrow you may want to treat with today-- it works to treat today. Also nateral cures are garlic frequent milkings - cought early I can clear most mastitis by milking completely and often.
This is one problem I have found leaving calves on--
Liz


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

So, I was told that once she has been treated with antibiotics - she can never be considered organic again.

That seems really harsh. I am having her milk tested to see if she, in fact, has mastitis. I m ilked her last night and filtered all of it and there was nothing in there. She's not red or hot either. If she has it - maybe its a very mild case or just starting?


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

If your getting stringy bits in your milk and the quarter is now feeling firm, there is not doubt that she has mastitis and it's probably time you dried this cow off.

Is being organic important to you? I'm not organic and I don't muck around with these things. If she were my cow I would be putting her immediately on a coarse of udder pen. over three days at the same time as starting to dry her off. On the last milking I would be giving her dry cow therapy in the offending quarter to ensure that she doesn't come in next season with mastitis in that quarter. 

Giving udder penecillan is not difficult and is not painful for the cow. The main thing is to ensure that the teat is clean on application and I always swab them with meths, and that once the protective covering is taken off the tube, it goes straight into the teat.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## michiganfarmer (Oct 15, 2005)

cjb said:


> Thanks for the input. I'm trying not to get discouraged. It just doesn't feel worth it sometimes. .


that is sad to hear. You were so excited to get her, and you have put so much work into this. 

I hope you find some satisfaction.


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## BlueHeronFarm (Feb 9, 2007)

Do you milk out the first squirts into a strip cup? It can help you catch problems when they first begin (stringiness, etc.) and it also makes sure any dirt, teat wash, etc. that may possibly be left after you clean gets disposed of, rather than put in the pail. We do the first squirts from our goats in a strip cup and then the dog gets that over her kibble. We don't have a milk cow yet, but I imagine we'll do the same when we get one.


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## Missy M (Mar 2, 2007)

Try hot packs and massaging the utter to help clear the mastitis.


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