# Home vs Public schooling



## Rusty'sDog (Oct 14, 2010)

If you are one of the many families pondering this choice,
I urge you to read this (it's long, but worth the read) :

http://www.newciv.org/whole/schoolteacher.txt


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Many of the teaching strategies listed in the article have been deemed inappropriate and are no longer practiced. This may be the way this teacher teaches, but he can't speak for all teachers. I am proud of the teachers at my school because they regularly attend professional development to learn how to modify and adjust their teaching practices to reflect recent studies on how children learn best.

Enthusiasm? My daughter LOVES school.
Rewards? My daughter models intrinsic motivation by being proud of her accomplishments.
Indifference? My daughter does her best because it is self-rewarding.

My daughter is in public school. She loves it. She loves her teacher.

My son is homeschooled. He chose to be.

Every child is different and some do well in public school, while others thrive at home. It is up to the parent to know their child(ren), know their neighborhood school, and make decisions as to what is best for them.


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## rxkeith (Apr 13, 2009)

we home school, and have some of john gottos' books. we also heard him speak at an unschooling conference in sandusky, oh. public schooling was designed by the prussians as a means of controlling the youth. i don't think any thing about that has changed today. not all kids are going to thrive in the same environment, i understand that. i think we can do so much better educating our kids. i think of all the time thats being wasted in the school setting today. home schooling allows the child to learn what's important to them, excel in what they are good at, and allows them to learn at their own pace. there are no square pegs trying to be shoved into round holes in the home school.

if you want to make the government really nervous, pull your kids out school, and home school them. the government doesn't want a bunch of free thinkers that they can't control.


keith


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

What if you have a child that is thriving in public school? My daughter would be devastated if I told her she was going to go back to homeschooling.
It really depends on the child and your local school's ability to educate them.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Each child's learning styles and needs are different. I homeschool for several reasons, but realize that homeschooling doesn't fit every family.


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## rxkeith (Apr 13, 2009)

if it aint broke, don't fix it.
you know whats best for child. no one else does.
if someone has a child that is doing well in the traditional classroom, is learning something of value, and is happy in that environment, then i see no reason to change.

what i see wrong about public school is a lot of kids just aren't learning, they are falling through the cracks, and are being lost forever. look at the drop out rate in cities like detroit. children aren't being educated. its not all the teachers fault, i'm not blaming them. my mom worked as a para pro for years at my elementary school, and saw a lot of things. its the system thats at fault. the system is churning out too many kids to be just average. i want better for my son. i like to say i survived public school education in detroit, and made something out of myself in spite of it. you are more apt to learn when you don't have to watch your back, and fear for your safety. 
my son is learning in a safe non threatening environment, and he isn't learning what some teacher is being forced to teach by the powers that be.
different strokes for different folks.


keith


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

rxkeith said:


> what i see wrong about public school is a lot of kids just aren't learning, they are falling through the cracks, and are being lost forever. look at the drop out rate in cities like detroit. children aren't being educated.
> keith


So much of this problem is lack of parenting. These kids never had a fighting chance with parent(s) they have. It is truly heart-wrenching.


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## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

I have one daughter in the public school, one daughter at home, and one daughter who hasn't yet reached the compulsory school age here. My oldest daughter is doing well at the public high school and she hated home schooling. My middle daughter did well at the public school (when we encouraged her to give it a try last year) but chose to come back home afterward. We haven't decided yet if we will send #3 to PS for Kindergarten or start her at home, too.

What I know.....#1) my oldest was learning at home, but hated it. #2) My middle child was learning at the PS, but hated it. It pains me to see any child dread school so I think they are both benefiting from being in the environment that makes them comfortable. Both girls are strong readers, good students, and well behaved (for the most part. lol). Their success is what matters to me. Not the artificial kind of success that they get from taking tests or completing assignments, but the kind of success they have when they master something just because they wanted to do so. As long as my children grow into adults who are able to find the answers they need, I've done my job.

I'm not a fan of the public school system, but I have a daughter who is. I cannot make that decision on her behalf and then expect her to excel.


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## countryboy84 (Dec 8, 2010)

As of right now my 3 kids are still in public school. This is only because the wife or I can not get things worked out to homeschool as of yet. The moment that things are so that we can our kids are out. My reasom for this is not because the public school system is not doing a good job of teaching my kids because they are doing alright. It is because about 20% of what they are taught is to get them to conform to the political correct life. Another 20% of what they are taught goes against almost every religon in the world. Another 20% is completly useless. The remaining 40% is not the truth. I also feel that some stuff that is not taught soon enough in public school and long enough. I have to agree rxkeith it is a form of control. 1 or 2 years ago now the guy over education at the federal level stated that the biggest problem with education is that kids retain too much of their parents beliefs. When I read that in the news paper I had thoughts that were well not very nice.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

I firmly believe that it is the responsibility of each parent to see that their child receives the best education available. For some, the local public school offers the best education. Unfortunately I think most of us know some folks who are very poor parents who would make equally miserable teachers for their kids. Regardless of the flaws of the public school system, I believe these kids would be better served by getting some education rather than none at all from their deadbeat parents.

Other families live in areas that have great private schools available and that would be the best educational choice. Although cost is usually an issue with private school, scholarships are often available and frequently costs can be reduced. However, it is wrong to just assume that private schools are better. My parents considered sending me to private school and I tried it for a month. It was horrible - a significant portion of the kids in that school were the ones who got kicked out of public school and whose parents happened to have enough money to send them to this school, so behavior problems abounded and it was a very scary place for a normal kid to go.

Our choice for our daughter has been homeschooling. I find that we are able to give her a superior academic education, a strong religious education, and a much wider social education than would have been available at our local public school or our nearest private school. 

But the bottom line to me is that regardless of the choice a parent makes, they are ultimately responsible for their kids education. If they choose public or private school, then it is their job to know the qualifications of the teachers and what is being taught and to deal with the problem if they are not happy with it. No excuse that "this is just how the district does it". 

It is the parent's job to know how their child is doing academically. The report card should not contain any surprises, you should already know by working with your child on a frequent basis how well or poorly they are doing in a particular subject. The parent should be visiting the school on a regular basis, both to check up on how their child is behaving and also to check up on how the teachers and administrators are doing. Sending one's child off to school is not an excuse for turning a blind eye to everything that goes on there.

If a parent is too busy too do these things then they are too darned busy! Who do they expect to be responsible for their child's education if they have dropped the ball? The teachers' job is to put the information out there for kids to learn. The administrators' job is to run the school in a safe and orderly manner. It is the parents' responsibility to make sure their own children are learning. If they don't like what their child is learning in one educational situation, then they need to step up and change the situation.

Homeschooling works for us because it enables us to give our daughter the best education possible. We have made many sacrifices to be able to take advantage of this option. But she is worth it.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

> Twenty-six years ago, having nothing better to do at the time, I tried my hand at schoolteaching.


Great. Just the kind of teacher we want in the classroom. 
Personally, while I've known a few of these types of "teachers," I've known more who taught because that's what they _want to do!_ It's a passion of the heart. 

So far as all of the rest of that baloney... 
I'm not at all surprised that a teacher who "had nothing better to do" with his life would teach EXACTLY like this.


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## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

ErinP said:


> Great. Just the kind of teacher we want in the classroom.
> Personally, while I've known a few of these types of "teachers," I've known more who taught because that's what they _want to do!_ It's a passion of the heart.
> 
> So far as all of the rest of that baloney...
> I'm not at all surprised that a teacher who "had nothing better to do" with his life would teach EXACTLY like this.



ErinP, if you only know a "few" types of these teachers, then count yourself fortunate. There are many more teachers in the public system today who are there for the great schedule, or the lack of other opportunities in small communities, than are there because they have a passion for teaching.

Also, I think the term "bologna" for the article is a bit short-sighted. If you spend much time volunteering in any elementary school around here, you see the exact things he describes. All through her 1st grade year of the public school, my oldest daughter was "Number 19". All assignments submitted and returned, permission slips, correspondence to & from the school, and even her lunch box had to be labeled "#19" rather than with her name. The reason? Well, with 21 students in her class, the teacher cannot possibly be expected to learn each first and last name before the winter break. The whole school switched to numbering students so as not to stress the elementary school teachers with learning 20 or more names within the first few weeks of school. I was never so relieved as I was when we moved to a new district. If this is not happening in your community, great. But, to assume the writer is lying would be sticking your head in the sand.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

ErinP said:


> Great. Just the kind of teacher we want in the classroom.
> 
> So far as all of the rest of that baloney...
> I'm not at all surprised that a teacher who "had nothing better to do" with his life would teach EXACTLY like this.


You are aware that Gatto was being sarcastic with that line, right? He won the New York City teacher of the year award 3 times and the New York State teacher of the year in 1991, plus multiple other awards. He is known for being a whistle blower who provides an insider's view of what is wrong with the public school system.

He received the Alexis de Tocqueville Award for Excellence in Advancement of Educational Freedom in 1997. He certainly is NOT a deadbeat teacher.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

You two _do_ know you're in direct contradiction of each other, right?


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## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

ErinP said:


> You two _do_ know you're in direct contradiction of each other, right?



Not really. _You_ described the article as "bologna". _You_ described the author with sarcasm as "just the kind of teacher we want in the classroom". I'm saying he's telling the truth about many of the issues he raised. I'm saying that if you only know a few teachers who are like the educators he describes in the article you are fortunate. From what I understand, the other poster is saying that the author is actually quite accomplished as a teacher. I don't see a contradiction.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

John Taylor Gatto is an incredibly respected educator, both in and out of the classroom. Even if you don't agree with him, he has plenty to offer -- many could learn a lot from him if they could get past his criticism of how the system is designed.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I read the article. 

I'm a product of an excellent public education.
I've worked both full and part time as a teacher in school systems in various parts of four states for nearly 20 years. 
I've homeschooled both of my kids and happen to think it's also an excellent method of education. 

His take on "how the system is designed" IS bologna. :shrug:

Perhaps that's how a big-city school is designed. I wouldn't know. 
I've never been in one. 
However, to say that's how EVERY school system functions is carp. I know better.


But this goes back to those who think they have to knock others' choices in order to validate their own.


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## rosehaven (Nov 5, 2004)

it is "government school" as your taxes pay for it. If it was a true public school then it would be free.

the government has never run or operated any institution with success. Postal service is just one example of a dismal failure and "government schools" fall in this catagory as well. 

If you want YOUR children to be indoctinated into the government agenda (ie: little socialists) from K through 12 then the "government schools" will be the perfect place for YOUR children. 

and yes, I'm a militant, Christian, homeschool parent. 
God is not allowed in "government schools" , hmmm, wonder why????? 
Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Facism, Humanism ....God is not tolerated.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

My God must be bigger than your God... He goes wherever He wants. 

So far as indoctrination... 
LOL!!!

My kids were 1st and 3rd grades when Obama was elected. They literally CRIED when the newscasters were announcing that it was probably going to go to him. 
DH and I were baffled. Crying?!? 
Turns out that Dave-the-Bus-Driver had been telling them for weeks what kind of disasters would befall all of us if Obama were elected and here it had come to pass!


Good grief. 
So then DH and I had to talk about regardless of whether one is happy with the choice or not, we hadn't just elected an _emperor_. 

But despite the overt indoctrination they were getting from not only Dave-the-Bus-Driver, but a couple of teachers as well, DH and I are pretty confident in our ability to be the primary influence in our kids' lives whether they're homeschooling or in public school. 


Afterall, supposedly schools have been these bastions of communism for decades. If it were true, or they were THAT influential, we should be Cuba by now!!
And yet every year they turn out kids who tend to have philosophical beliefs that parallel their parents. :shrug:


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## twomeal (Dec 3, 2010)

> 20% of what they are taught is to get them to conform to the political correct life. Another 20% of what they are taught goes against almost every religon in the world. Another 20% is completly useless. The remaining 40% is not the truth.


This, plus my unhappiness in my school days (for a million reasons), is why I choose to homeschool.


It doesn't bother me how Dick and Jane school their kids, but this is how I will raise mine. I wish everyone could be perfectly happy with _my_ decisions, but that's just how the cookie crumbles.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

My mother is a retired elementary school teacher. My sister has been a teacher for over a decade (and she's earned her National Board Certification in History). I've been an adolescent counselor for 7 years, and work closely with school systems in the course of my job.

My experience is that (for the most part) if your kid is AVERAGE in all ways, he/she will do very well in a public school. If your kid is either above average or below average, he/she will struggle in the public school system.

If you don't want your kids to be in the public school system, then homeschool them. Pay attention to the skills that your child will need to be a contributing member of society and you'll be fine. 

I'll never forget a friend of mine who married a nice young man who had been homeschooled his whole life. There was a heated debate on the radio about Darwin's theory of evolution, and my friends DH turned to her and said "Who's Darwin?" He was serious. His mother was a devout Catholic and had never mentioned Darwin at any point in his education. IMHO his mom should have taught him at least the very basics and then made it crystal clear that they didn't believe in this....but to have never been introduced to the concept was a big gaping hole. How can he be expected to carry out a well-educated argument against evolution when their son asks if he doesn't understand what evolution is to begin with?

Knowledge is power. I'm not saying the public schools are better or worse than homeschooling, but if you decide to homeschool ALL of what your child knows will come from you....and you want them to grow up to not sound like an uneducated a**, right?


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## tytglovett (Aug 27, 2010)

I'll never forget a friend of mine who married a nice young man who had been homeschooled his whole life. There was a heated debate on the radio about Darwin's theory of evolution, and my friends DH turned to her and said "Who's Darwin?" He was serious. His mother was a devout Catholic and had never mentioned Darwin at any point in his education. IMHO his mom should have taught him at least the very basics and then made it crystal clear that they didn't believe in this....but to have never been introduced to the concept was a big gaping hole. How can he be expected to carry out a well-educated argument against evolution when their son asks if he doesn't understand what evolution is to begin with?

Knowledge is power. I'm not saying the public schools are better or worse than homeschooling, but if you decide to homeschool ALL of what your child knows will come from you....and you want them to grow up to not sound like an uneducated a**, right?[/QUOTE]

In public school you will not learn of Creationism. That is just one instance of the limited point of view that either homeschooling or public education can create. Neither is perfect, but the fact he knew nothing of Darwin is no more alarming that public school children that will not be allowed to learn anything other than Darwinism.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

tytglovett said:


> In public school you will not learn of Creationism.



Of course not. Creationism is the origin-of-the-world-story specific to _one_ particular religion. 
Why would that be taught in public schools that are supposed to keep church and state separate??

However, unlike the converse that bluemoon mentioned, I WANT my kids to know the Creation story as well as the rest of their faith's history. Consequently, just like hauling them to church, that's my job as a parent. :shrug:

For that matter, I knew kids in college (public, state school), who didn't believe in evolution. General Bio--products of public high schools, they understood completely how it supposedly functioned. 
They just didn't buy it. 

Sounds like Mom and Dad did their jobs, eh?


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

ErinP said:


> Of course not. Creationism is the origin-of-the-world-story specific to _one_ particular religion.
> Why would that be taught in public schools that are supposed to keep church and state separate??
> 
> However, unlike the converse that bluemoon mentioned, I WANT my kids to know the Creation story as well as the rest of their faith's history. Consequently, just like hauling them to church, that's my job as a parent. :shrug:
> ...


It is a parent's responsibility to teach their children about their religion of choice, regardless of whether those kids are homeschooled or attend public school. The same way parents are to teach their kids morals, values, cultural traditions, etc. 

Sunday school at church is where kids learn Creationism, not Biology class, and that's how it should be. 

If you are confident in your religious beliefs, then you aren't worried that teaching your kids something considered mainstream (ie Darwinism) is going to shake your kids' faith, right? 

The only reason I can see to shy away from covering topics like this (that are considered "common knowledge" as an adult in America these days) in homeschooling is because you're afraid that your child will come to believe in something that refutes their religion. So if you're faith is strong and you're doing your job and raising kids who also have strong faith, why WOULDN'T you want them to know what all their peers know? What benefit is there to withholding information considered common knowledge?


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

bluemoonluck said:


> I'll never forget a friend of mine who married a nice young man who had been homeschooled his whole life. There was a heated debate on the radio about Darwin's theory of evolution, and my friends DH turned to her and said "Who's Darwin?" He was serious. His mother was a devout Catholic and had never mentioned Darwin at any point in his education. IMHO his mom should have taught him at least the very basics and then made it crystal clear that they didn't believe in this....but to have never been introduced to the concept was a big gaping hole. How can he be expected to carry out a well-educated argument against evolution when their son asks if he doesn't understand what evolution is to begin with?


Public or Homeschool can both be good, depends on individual circumstances but this quote....what in the world does this have to do with the price in tea in China? I'm assuming you don't really believe that the public school system doesn't leave holes? You really believe this guy is an uneducated a** for not knowing this?


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

morningstar said:


> Public or Homeschool can both be good, depends on individual circumstances but this quote....what in the world does this have to do with the price in tea in China? I'm assuming you don't really believe that the public school system doesn't leave holes? You really believe this guy is an uneducated a** for not knowing this?


His wife is the one who told me that she married an uneducated a**. Her words, not mine. 

Sure, public education leaves LOTS of gaps in our children's education. But they at least cover what is considered to be the big stuff - the stuff that is regularly discussed in mainstream media - like evolution.


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

bluemoonluck said:


> His wife is the one who told me that she married an uneducated a**. Her words, not mine.
> 
> Sure, public education leaves LOTS of gaps in our children's education. But they at least cover what is considered to be the big stuff - the stuff that is regularly discussed in mainstream media - like evolution.


That's one really sweet wife, how lucky he is to have her 

Yeah, thank goodness the kids are getting mainstream media, I feel so much better now. The average high school across America is really is panning this kind of thinking out, not sure I'd take the stand that this is a great thing, but to each their own.


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