# Keeping coyotes away?



## mrstillery09 (Jul 12, 2012)

We have an 80 acre farm. Cows are run on the largest portion, and have been for years. Coyotes have never been a problem there, except calves...even then very seldom. Now we have goats, 5 to be exact. We have been hearing tons of coyote calls at night, that seem very close. I'm trying to figure out the best way to keep them away from the goats. We haven't had any issues, but I'm scared that it's only a matter of time. The goats are in a large three sided building that we used to keep grain trucks in. The entire front of the building is closed with tube gates, and then there are two tube gate pens we've made inside the building. How much of a deterrent are tube gates to coyotes? Is there anything else I can do to keep them safe?


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## msscamp (Sep 8, 2014)

Remember that sound carries a lot farther in the evening when it's cooler than it does in the daytime. How old are your goats? Adults or kids? Kids are an easy target for coyotes, but I doubt that a coyote will go after an adult goat. I have coyotes in my area, too, and I haven't had a problem with them in the 8 years I've been raising goats, and I know there is a coyote den in close proximity to my pens. If the spacing on the bars of your gates across the front of the shed are wide enough that a coyote could get between them, wire a cattle panel to the gate to prevent that. To prevent anything - dogs or coyotes - from digging under, dig a trench dug about 2 to 3" deep and bury a 2" steel pipe or a 2" wide flat piece of steel. Another option to prevent digging under the gate is to dig a trench 8-10" deep and bury a piece of cattle panel or heavy duty chicken wire.


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## mrstillery09 (Jul 12, 2012)

msscamp said:


> Remember that sound carries a lot farther in the evening when it's cooler than it does in the daytime. How old are your goats? Adults or kids? Kids are an easy target for coyotes, but I doubt that a coyote will go after an adult goat. I have coyotes in my area, too, and I haven't had a problem with them in the 8 years I've been raising goats, and I know there is a coyote den in close proximity to my pens. If the spacing on the bars of your gates across the front of the shed are wide enough that a coyote could get between them, wire a cattle panel to the gate to prevent that. To prevent anything - dogs or coyotes - from digging under, dig a trench dug about 2 to 3" deep and bury a 2" steel pipe or a 2" wide flat piece of steel. Another option to prevent digging under the gate is to dig a trench 8-10" deep and bury a piece of cattle panel or heavy duty chicken wire.


The two oldest are a year and a half, the younger three are 7 months old. We do have some extra cattle panels. I think I will add them to the front just in case. It's comforting you hear you haven't had any problems! We've never had any problems, but with all the howling I was getting a little nervous!


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## msscamp (Sep 8, 2014)

I can absolutely understand that! There have been a lot of nights that I've been outside, heard the coyotes howling, and it raised the hair on the back of my neck. I could have sworn they were at the south end of my pens! I have cattle panels wired to all of my exterior gates, I've turned most of my exterior fences into windbreaks by nailing/screwing tin onto them, and I try to keep my big bales of hay away from the fences far enough that nothing can jump up onto them, and then into the pens.


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## Clovers_Clan (Jul 17, 2012)

An LGD doesn't have to roam the entire 80 acres to be effective. A good farmyard dog near the house offers some protection. A Pyr in the pen with the goats at night will do the trick. Barking and the smell is enough keep the coyotes to their own harmless territory.


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## alc609 (Oct 14, 2014)

electric fence wire work for my chickens, and a second wire about 6" high keeps the skunks and ***** out


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## WNCBear (Aug 29, 2014)

Shoot them, or ask someone else to do so.

They are smart, opportunistic, persistent, relentless predators. I don't hate them, but recognize them for what there are. They are doing what they naturally do. It's really just that simple.

A coyote, or pack, can take down large deer. Youtube search with video will confirm. Your goats, if accessible, are no match.

I'm sorry for your troubles, but there's one sure fire way to solve the problem.


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## WNCBear (Aug 29, 2014)

Clovers_Clan said:


> An LGD doesn't have to roam the entire 80 acres to be effective. A good farmyard dog near the house offers some protection. A Pyr in the pen with the goats at night will do the trick. Barking and the smell is enough keep the coyotes to their own harmless territory.


Respectfully disagree; so does my dog. Admittedly, she's not a Pyr, but pound for pound can hold her own and is adequately sized (Dalmatian/GShep mix).

Two coyotes, both notably smaller than my dog, went after her in broad daylight when she got between them and my daughter. My dog emits odor, she barked, they attacked.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Donkey and gun are your best bets..










...Orrrr.. You could go with the LGD sniper..


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

Here's one you all may (or not) laugh at, my son goes out periodically and marks his territory...He just told me that recently. No coyotes have been trotting nearby recently and that fox I haven't seen recently either. Don't know if that is what did it or that my LGD is now 6 months old and runs the whole farmyard not just the goats. When she she hears the coyotes in the distance she barks then howls back.....


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## V-NH (Jan 1, 2014)

Wish I had a good suggestion beyond hunting them. We have some BIG coyotes in my area and they have never gone after one of my goats. They tend to like my poultry a lot better. I like to think my herd matriarch is keeping them away because she is huge, has horns, and is extremely aggressive toward all other animals (including harmless ones :huh.


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## collegeboundgal (Jul 17, 2005)

My fencing for goats also is fencing against coyotes. Lol. If a dog/coyote could get in, that would mean the goats could get out, and the goats would find that spot right quick to show me...


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## Clovers_Clan (Jul 17, 2012)

WNCBear said:


> Respectfully disagree; so does my dog. Admittedly, she's not a Pyr, but pound for pound can hold her own and is adequately sized (Dalmatian/GShep mix).
> 
> Two coyotes, both notably smaller than my dog, went after her in broad daylight when she got between them and my daughter. My dog emits odor, she barked, they attacked.


That kind of behavior is more the exception than the rule. That is what you could expect from a rabid animal, a dog/coyote hybrid, one that has become habituated to humans(become dependent on hand-outs, cat food, etc.) or one that is stressed to starvation from prolonged extreme weather events. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just out of character for a healthy coyote. And not cause to annihilate the whole species or every coyote you hear. But certainly, any coyote that does not respect the territory of a LGD is dangerous and should be dealt with.


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## mrstillery09 (Jul 12, 2012)

collegeboundgal said:


> My fencing for goats also is fencing against coyotes. Lol. If a dog/coyote could get in, that would mean the goats could get out, and the goats would find that spot right quick to show me...


Oh my gosh! This is hilarious and almost true in my case. Those goats have some type of radar system that can detect the slightest fence breach!

So many great ideas and thoughts here! I've only actually seen a coyote on our farm once, and that was at least 10 years ago. The pen they spend the night in seems pretty secure, but I do think i'm adding extra cattle panels on the tube gates to make me feel a little better. I would love to add an LGD, but I have an old cranky lab chow mix who would make getting an LGD difficult. My dogs do spend a lot of time out where the goats sleep and spend time, so hopefully that helps serve as some type of deterrent.


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## WNCBear (Aug 29, 2014)

Clovers_Clan said:


> That kind of behavior is more the exception than the rule. That is what you could expect from a rabid animal, a dog/coyote hybrid, one that has become habituated to humans(become dependent on hand-outs, cat food, etc.) or one that is stressed to starvation from prolonged extreme weather events. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just out of character for a healthy coyote. And not cause to annihilate the whole species or every coyote you hear. But certainly, any coyote that does not respect the territory of a LGD is dangerous and should be dealt with.


Agreed.

My experience has been that coyotes are adaptable to most environments, and prosper even when pressured. In no way am I espousing eradication of the species, but I'm not one to take unnecessary chances either. When I see them and an opportunity presents itself, I take them out. That said, I have yet to go out of my way hunting for them. 

The two on that day were in my yard area, close to the house.

A significant amount of new residential development in proximity to my place (on what was previously vacant mountain acreage) may have, in fact, contributed to their atypical behavior that day. They _were_ young and appeared to be healthy otherwise.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

Just a thought, an adult coyote can get thru a 6"x6" hole in field fencing or cattle panels. 

For the most part, our LGD's stay in their designated goat pens and so far we have not had issues with predators taking the animals. They really are a good investment if you have the time to start them.


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## Clovers_Clan (Jul 17, 2012)

Just thought I'd mention, if the barn has electricity, and it sounds like it might, a motion sensor light might help. The area outside of the barn would need to be clear of livestock so the sensor doesn't constantly trigger. It wouldn't be a deterrent against stray dogs but most coyotes are wary of human activity. You could even train the coyotes so to speak. Go out on a few nights you hear them calling. When you hear them call a little closer than you'd like turn the light on and fire a loud shot in the air with a gun. Do it a few times over a couple nights, they will associate your barn and especially the light with gunshots.


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Living in a rural area where there are coyote packs, there can also be feral dog packs as well. You won't hear them yipping or howling. They are not necessarily afraid of humans. In this area coyotes do kill goats, mainly kids and feral dogs do massacre goat herds adults and all. Quite often a good fence and a good LGD inside it is enough of a deterrent because there are always easier prey down the road. They won't usually work too hard to get at prey unless there is no alternative.


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## GoslingFever (Jan 31, 2006)

WNCBear said:


> Shoot them, or ask someone else to do so.
> 
> They are smart, opportunistic, persistent, relentless predators. I don't hate them, but recognize them for what there are. They are doing what they naturally do. It's really just that simple.
> 
> ...


^----- -This is absolutely true.

Our neighbors have Pyr. They heard a ruckus, came out to 4 or 5 coyotes on their dog. They rushed it to the vet, it was quite a mess. With fur that thick, you'd think they'd be safe, but the dog still needed stitches for some of the wounds. Been seeing more and more attacks on dogs in our area. Most of the dogs don't make it.

With a good fence, your goats should be safe. But the old tricks you hear (spread wolf pee, human pee, bleach, get a barking dog even just a yapper --- not true, not when the animals keep getting bolder. Urine may make them cautious but it won't stop or slow them them from hunting. As WNC said, look up Youtube videos of coyote. You'll see them jump up on trees until they reach & drag cats down, they attack dogs big and small, deer and sheep and there is a video of coyote slyly clearing a high fence while carrying a floppy cat in its mouth. You'll also see plenty of clips where people are trying to chase multiple yote off of an animal, and the coyote aren't worried.


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## Phil V. (May 31, 2013)

I've had 3 attempts by coyotes and neighbor dogs on getting in at my goats. My neighbor shot 2 of the 3 coyotes and his golden retriever went after a german shepherd and drew blood from it and took on 2 other dogs and drew blood from them. I'm planning on getting 2 lgd dogs as soon as I can. I'm looking at the Tatra Mountain Sheepdog right now.


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## doingitmyself (Jul 30, 2013)

Around here we keep a smelly buck goat with the chickens and female goats as the coyotes can't stand the smell of a ripe buck. Old farmers trick.

Also, my preferred .204 ruger cartridge gets it done at 400 yards! :rock:


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## handymama (Aug 22, 2014)

I don't know if there's anything to this or not. Locals here say that if a coyote pack finds a dead coyote in the area, the pack moves on. They were a big problem here. Then I found one dead in my field with no injuries. And sure enough I haven't seen any in the two years since. Anyone else know anything about that?


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## msscamp (Sep 8, 2014)

I would say that is simply coincidence. I know coyotes have been both trapped and shot around here, and it didn't phase the rest of them in the slightest.


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## msscamp (Sep 8, 2014)

Ford Zoo said:


> Just a thought, an adult coyote can get thru a 6"x6" hole in field fencing or cattle panels.


Unless you've got some really small coyotes or they are able to disjoint their shoulders, this is a physical impossibility.


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## SJSFarm (Jun 13, 2012)

I was on Facebook and saw these collars for LGD protection 

I also found this older ht post about wolves

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/li...nimals/422405-spike-collars-do-they-work.html


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

SJSFarm, I've seen similar collars on the Karakachans in Bulgaria. Were I in a high predator situation, I would not hesitate to use one!


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

wintrrwolf said:


> Here's one you all may (or not) laugh at, my son goes out periodically and marks his territory...He just told me that recently. No coyotes have been trotting nearby recently and that fox I haven't seen recently either. Don't know if that is what did it or that my LGD is now 6 months old and runs the whole farmyard not just the goats. When she she hears the coyotes in the distance she barks then howls back.....


This is what Nick does as well. He and the dogs go around, "watering the daises" (as he says). 

Also, when we hear the 'yotes, Nick will get the dogs started barking. If they are already barking, we join in the barkin' and howlin'. Lots of fun.


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## Ford Zoo (Jan 27, 2012)

msscamp said:


> Unless you've got some really small coyotes or they are able to disjoint their shoulders, this is a physical impossibility.


Considering our average yote population is 20-30 pounds when full grown around here, it's not impossible. When our Maremma was a 50 pound pup she could climb thru our woven wire squares. I was happy when she outgrew that bad habit.


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## msscamp (Sep 8, 2014)

Yes, 20 to 30 lbs would definitely be considered a small coyote. The adult coyotes around here are in the 60 to 75 lb range.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

I'm actually up at 1:30 in the morning because the coyotes woke me up. They were yapping away twenty feet from my bedroom window, in the neighbor's yard.

60-75 pound coyote is probably crossed with something else; coy-wolf or coy-dog.

The coyotes around here LOOK that big in winter, but they're all hair. They weigh around 30-40 pounds. And at 30 pounds, a couple of them can take down a 100-150 pound elk calf (and elk kick hard with those front feet), so don't underestimate them. I could see a young coyote or a smaller female fitting through a 6X6 space. They're surprisingly flexible and they're long and skinny.

We keep our goats in a solid steel barn from dusk to dawn, which mostly solves the coyote problem. Guard dogs -- more than one -- also help. The coyotes may or may not run from the dogs, but they learn pretty quickly that when the dogs bark, humans show up with guns to back them up.


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## dozedotz (Dec 12, 2012)

We have two LGD Pyr dogs in with the goats. Never have had a problem inside the fenced goat areas. We have had large coyotes inside the barn looking for cats...we assume. A couple of years back the varmint dogs tackled a male coyote and killed him just off our back porch. He weighed almost 50 pounds dead. If he was a mix of dog or wolf (we aren't supposed to have coy wolves or wolves in MO., he looked 100% coyote. Whatever he was he was up to no good! The varmint dogs will chase them...but they come back if the dogs don't catch them. They appear not to be too concerned.


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## msscamp (Sep 8, 2014)

Cygnet said:


> 60-75 pound coyote is probably crossed with something else; coy-wolf or coy-dog.


They aren't crossed with anything. They can take down a 65 lb calf on their own, and I know that because I've seen them do it.


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## Queen Bee (Apr 7, 2004)

We have coyotes on our property and they aren't afraid of us or our dogs. We have seem them at all times of day or night. I saw a video of one jumping on top of a 6' block fence with a cat in his mouth! One bounce flat footed and he was standing on top! It made chills up my spine!


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## tommyanunnaki (Apr 30, 2014)

I would go on a mission to eradicate as many 'yotes as you can. 

1. Trapping
2. Shooting
3. Dogs

I would even poison them if its legal in your area. 

They are an evil menace! In my book, the only good 'yote is a dead 'yote.

Good fencing will help you out as well. Also, you may want to have a shooting party one night. You can leave some food out for them someplace where you (and as many friends as you can gather that can shoot straight) can be waiting for them. When they come in to eat, start blasting. 

I don't tolerate them and neither should you.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

One other thing to consider regarding coyotes, if you're so inclined, is fur prices are up. 

Baiting them in isn't legal here (and can result in lifetime revocation of your hunting rights, time in jail, and a multi-thousand-dollar fine, iirc) but using an electronic predator call is allowed and works just as well. *grin* 

I don't hate coyotes, but the population here needs to be thinned because they're losing their fear of people again. I'm seriously considering getting a caller and doing some *ahem* target practice on the local predator population in about a month, when the furs are better. Last I heard, they're running $25-$35 a hide for good quality skin. And I might get lucky and nail a bobcat while I'm at it, which are running several hundred a hide. 

(I HATE bobcats. Coyotes are a lot easier to deal with than a persistent, sneaky, determined bobcat, and a bobcat can tear a guard dog up a lot worse than a coyote.)


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## GoslingFever (Jan 31, 2006)

tommyanunnaki said:


> I would go on a mission to eradicate as many 'yotes as you can. ...They are an evil menace! In my book, the only good 'yote is a dead 'yote.
> 
> I don't tolerate them and neither should you.


And QueenBee, I have seen something like that in person.  I have had people tell me "Oh coyotes can't clear a fence that high". Dead wrong. Glad someone got that on video. Coyotes are incredible hunters, the North American version of the Jackal. Tommyanunnaki I couldn't agree more with the above quotes from your post.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Just a few thoughts. I've trapped several hundred coyotes, some of those under professional livestock depredation remediation. Coyotes can pop through a six inch square like you can crawl under your bed. Doesn't mean they like to, but they can. They would rather dig under, which they can do in about thirty seconds, if the soil is any looser than cured concrete and there is something they want on the other side. If they do hit something they can't dig through, they can jump a six foot fence like it wasn't there. They very seldom pass through a woven wire fence with a hot wire about six inches off the ground, especially when a mean biting dog or a crazed equine is on the other side. Not that a couple of them can't hold their own pretty well with a dog that isn't familiar with killing things on a regular basis. They would just rather not come to blows with a dog, even a small dog, unless of course they have developed a taste for dog. If you are hearing coyotes and you haven't lost any animals then things are good, because they could have already killed them. Count yourself lucky that you have the nice rabbit and mouse eating pack of coyotes instead of ones who have become habituated to eat domestic stock. Not throwing dead goats or afterbirth out where coyotes can eat them, and doing anything to make the inside of your fence less attractive to them will go a long way. More lights, barking dog, motion activated light and noise devices, electric fence, all work, but none are completely coyote proof.


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