# Novice looking for direction.



## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

Spent some time reading and figuring out costs. Got a couple friends that have helped answer some questions. But the more I research, the more questions I have.

I figure about $1,000 in tack for a single horse. We are looking for two to ride. Bridle, harness, blanket, saddle, cinch, etc.

Property I am looking at in the country because I am a self-employed truck driver with my own authority. I need a big garage to work on my truck.

I figure 2 acres to pasture two horses along with the horse shed.

If I remember my numbers right, about 120-150 small bales per year. Cost is about $4-6 per bale.

Vet is about $300 annually, farrier is about $35-50 per visit every 3-4 months.

My red-flags:
I am gone about 2-3 weeks. Typically about 10-19 days at a time. Then one to 3 nights and home. At least 10 days a month I am home straight. Wife will always be around to look after the horses. In the summer/fall/spring, they will have freedom of pasture. MN winter will be tended to as needed (bales/grain etc).


What's brought this back to my possibly acting on owning horses again?

I have never had a horse of my own. I have ridden though and been around them.

This past weekend, I went to a renaissance event for a group we are active with and they had equestrian activities there. I was rather surprised when I was invited to try it out. I was used to trail animals that you pretty much sit on and they take the lead.

This was NOT that way. I was in control of the animal. I wanted to go left, I did, right, it did, trot, it did. It was more about training ME what to do than the animal.

In about 20 minutes I was able to have the horse zig-zagging in a set of 4 poles. Within the half hour, I was using a wood sword to knock heads off the same poles. I spent over 1 1/2 hours riding that afternoon with breaks in that time as well.

After dinner that night, it was chores and I went to help water and feed all 5 of the horses they brought that day. Took about 20 minutes to brush the guy down I had ridden that afternoon too. He was very welcoming to it. The owner was kind of surprised too. I was told he was really sensitive to getting his belly brushed, but he never once nipped at me. I always kept one hand on him at all times. Never did he really push me away or get jittery.

The owner told me that she would have authorized me had there been another marshal on site that day. I was easily taking to the task.

I have so many questions on what should I do or where should I turn too.
I am aware of 4-H, but nothing for adults. 

I am also aware of the UM equine program.
http://www1.extension.umn.edu/agriculture/horse/

input welcome...


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

OK, I'm confused as to what you actually want to know. 

Tack, you don't need to have new-main thing is does it fit both you and the horse. Now will it necessarily cost $1000/horse. You can often get a good, used saddle for well under that. Check CL in your area. 

One thing I advice people to do if they're thinking of owning a horse and know nothing about them is to find a place where you can lease a horse. Do that for several months. That will give you an opportunity to learn about caring for a horse as well as helping you decide if you really want to own one, or if you'd rather just ride occasionally.


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

I hear you on the CL.

I was pricing things like halters, bridles, blankets etc new at the local farm store. Add all the things up you need and if you just go buy it, $1000 is gone before you know it. Yeah, there are cheaper and more inexpensive places to get things. It was more a "reality check" for me than anything.

How does that work "leasing" a horse. That's a new one on me.


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## Pallyshire (Apr 19, 2013)

In my area horse quality hay starts at $12 a bale. Make sure you price in your area and figure in droughts when hay can be very hard to find and very expensive. 

Also check ebay. I have found really good prices on blankets, bridles, bits, reins, and even saddles. Most saddles ship for $45-50 on top of purchase price.


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

what do you consider horse quality hay?

Working with one friend who's background is animal nutrition, I have been half following the price of ditch hay (grass).

http://www.hayexchange.com/mn.php


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Just some things I took from your post.

1) 2 acres of pasture for 2 horses will not be enough if you actually want it to support your horses during the non-winter months. If you don't mind haying year round it will be fine but then you need to up your bale count. When I had to rely on an all hay diet (and by this I mean no pasture, they still needed grain as well-at least mine did because they got ridden a lot) I needed at least 100 bales per year, per head and that was an alfalfa/grass mix. If you feed just grass hay you'll probably need to feed more.

2) Since you will be gone so much make sure your wife is 100% on board with horse ownership. She will have the majority of the responsibility which will include making sure they are fed at least twice a day, providing them with fresh water (and unfrozen water in the winter), keeping an eye out and dealing with possible injuries and illnesses, being the horse wrangler for the vet and farrier. And speaking of the farrier, it should be at least every 8 weeks, not 3-4 months. She'll have to deal with fence and barn repairs too, because while sometimes they can wait until you'd be home there are some that require immediate attention.

Sounds like your weekend adventure was great fun just keep in mind that horse ownership isn't just about fun it's also a lot of hard work.


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## goodhors (Sep 6, 2011)

I would also advise leasing a horse, see if you continue to enjoy taking care of the animals over the long haul. You may want to get with horse folks involved in the Renn-Faire activities, since you appeared interested in that kind of horse use. Those horses can also be used for trail rides in most cases, not just special events. Most are pretty calm, accepting of strange things people do, because they are attending busy activities.

I am going to say you are short on your hay quantities in figuring. Horses will have very limited grazing on only a couple acres. So you will be providing 99% of their forage food with hay, year around. With only a shed, you will have difficulty storing quantity amounts of hay, to keep it dry, out of the sun, protected from the horses and weather. It gets darn cold in MN, so horses outside, not barned, need MORE hay to stay warm in the cold weather. Hay ferments as it passes thru their digestive system, making body heat. So as the temps drop, horse needs a larger quantity hay, to keep itself warm. Grains and feeds are more for quick energy, they don't give that much to heating the body like hay will. So you will need at least a small (50-70pound) bale a day, of a grass mixed hay, to
feed two moderate (14-15H high) horses. That amount may be enough for cooler weather, but when temps drop down below zero, horses will probably need more volume of hay to keep warm. So in cold times, you could be feeding as much as a bale a day to each horse, plus some grain feed.

Hay varies in quality. Hay from ditches, not planted or cared for with fertilizer, is probably a poorer quality hay, so has less calories for the horses. Alfalfa hay is quite rich in most cases, more than what most horses need in calories, though dairy cows can use those calories in milk production. A mixed hay, grasses, brome, timothy, maybe a touch of Alfalfa, is usually a pretty good mix of foods for horses. Should smell fresh, like a nice field, have softer leaves and stems for easy chewing. Green color is desirable, but some sun bleaching can happen on the hay sides while in storage, not a big deal. Stick your hand into a bale, see how poky it is. Real hard stems/sticks are difficult to chew. We get first cutting since our horses get fat easily, usually is cheaper to buy, may have some extra weeds in it. Second and third cuttings of hay are usually softer, richer hay, more expensive too. Good eating for the horse, easily digestible.

Having to haul hay in small quantities each week or month, because you can't store larger quantities, gets old, can be a problem in bad weather when trucks can't move. You usually can get a better price buying hay out of the field or off the wagon, because Farmer has less time in handling that hay. Barn hay has been handled twice, third time loading it on your truck. Time handling is money for that Farmer, has to charge more because that hay costs him more. Some farmers might let you buy and continue to store your hay in his barn until spring. Pickup your loads as you need them. Then he needs to clean out the barn for new crop of hay.

I do not recommend feeding horses the big round or square bales, they waste so much of it. Horses don't NEED to have hay in front of them 24 hours a day, pull the bales apart, pee and poop on it so it is not edible. You then have the mucky mess of old hay turning into mud for cleaning up come Spring. You really need equipment to safely handle large sized bales, they weigh a lot.

I am going to disagree on horses needing hoof care at 3-4 month intervals. Horse hooves grow all the time. They grow faster when Spring comes, slower over the winter with short days. So they could need a trim every 6-weeks when growing quickly, then might be able to be spread out to 8-week intervals in fall thru winter. They may need shoes if you use them a lot, wear off their hooves faster than they can grow them. Depends on how you use the horses. Not sure of your local Farrier costs, but trims here, are about $45 for each horse, with shoes much higher. 

Horses will need annual shots for disease prevention, a dental checkup yearly, maybe needing tooth care, called "Floating" their teeth. Teeth are like hooves, grow their whole life. Costs vary on that too. Owning a horse trailer, truck to pull it, will let you go to horse activities, haul them to the Vet Clinic to save cost of Vet coming out to do care on them. Get a larger (taller, 7ft) sized trailer so they fit comfortably inside, even a stock trailer model works, with MATS so they have good footing during the rides.

My other suggestion would be to wait on owning the horses this year. Go take some riding lessons, maybe on that lease horse in a boarding stable. It is kind of short notice to put in fence, shed, find hay storage for all those bales, before winter arrives. You will have payed out a LOT of money, on horses you likely won't be riding or using during winter cold. You don't want to just jump in on purchasing a Country Home, then find out it is poorly located, not handy for many reasons. At riding lessons (using their horses and equipment), or at a board (you pay them to do care) barn with a leased horse, they will have an indoor arena to ride in during the cold, they feed and clean up after the horse for you.

Is wife really into the horse idea too? She might like lessons or not, to learn more about horse care and needed attention to keep them healthy if she will be doing most of the care in feeding. You don't mention if she is horsey or not, and there is more to care than just throwing hay over the fence and keeping the water tank full all winter. 

I just hate to see folks jump into horses, spend a LOT of money, then be overwhelmed by the physical needs horses have and EVERY DAY care needed when you keep them at home. Then the people get back out of horses as quickly. Horse ownership is too big a time investment, demand on their time, still lose a lot of money on the deal.


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## Pallyshire (Apr 19, 2013)

goodhors gave some good insight on the hay. Also stay away from sudan I heard it's not good. I can get hay a lot cheaper for my cows but the stuff for horses is the one that will break the bank. I agree with needing hooves trimmed more often. I have one horse that needs trimmed every six weeks, one every 8 weeks, and one gets done on 8 weeks even though she looks like her hooves never grow. I know a lot of people that wait a long time and it's not good on the horses legs and back to let them get too long. 

Definitely don't want to turn you from horses. I love caring for my small heard even though it takes a lot of work some weeks and very little other weeks. Also unexpected accidents. For instance my mare had her teeth floated $110, Shots about $70, plus $65 for a vet call. That's my yearly expected vet bill for each horse. I have three. Well a week later I spent $300 on a hole in my mare's face. She somehow poked through her sinuses. Never did find what she did that on. We even spent all winter cutting every tree we had to where the branches weren't reachable. Then two months later she hurt her back tendon in her leg and needed a $1100 surgery. Luckily she was good the next year so I just had the basic Vet bill. The third year however it was another $400 for two extra emergency calls. One when she decided the package the mail man left at the gate was going to eat her so she ran into the cattle shelter and cut her neck on a cattle panel. That needed stitches. Then 6 months later she decided to bloody my geldings nose and we couldn't get the bleeding to stop. I would save for unexpected expenses because horses can be pretty unpredictable and accident prone. But they can also be a great thing as well. 

If you do buy land I would get at least 3 acres so you can rotate where they are eating so they don't kill all the grass. Sometimes even 2 acres per horse isn't enough. The one horse per acre is not a very good rule unless your very dedicated in rotational grazing. One of my mares can strip an area in a few hours if I let her. 

Another piece of advise is to work on fencing before you buy the horses. I spent well over $300 on our fencing when we first moved in. That was to do basic repairs to an already existing fence. We replaced a few t-posts and replaced wire here and there. We did part of the work after we brought them over and it was a nightmare. My mare is very inquisitive and she actually ran through some of our fencing while we were working on it. They were on the other side of the pasture and we didn't notice her creep over. Well she saw the top line was down so she tried to jump it. Luckily she didn't get hurt and we didn't get hurt while the wire was flinging everywhere. 

My advise is get two older horses to start with that have a lot of miles on them. Like in their late teens. My gelding was 20 when I bought him and he is really laid back and easy to handle. He is definitely worth his weight in gold. However I have a younger mare that is a trouble maker and she can make owning horses a pain. I would have a vet check out the horses to see how they will stand for the vet and to check health before buying them. Also find a knowledgeable person to take with you so they can give you insight on things you may not have thought of or seen. If I was more knowledgeable when I originally bought my horses I would have left the troublesome mare where she was. My other two are all around good horses that make owning them a pleasure. 

These are just my experiences with unexpected costs of horse ownership. Don't worry it's not all bad you just need to be informed and expect the unexpected as far as cost. Your doing a good job with your research just get different quotes so you know an estimate of the highs and the lows. I always set a certain amount aside for a cushion in case there is an emergency, hay shortage, or repairs needing to be done.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

Good advice from everyone and the only thing I will add is that pasture and hay may vary widely from your estimate, depending on where you are located. In MT, where I lived for years, dry land "range" pasture where you don't get enough rain to have a second growth of grass, you have to figure about 20 acres to maintain one horse for the summer grazing season. Here in KY we maintain 10 horses and 6 ponies on an estimated 6 or 7 acres of pasture that is subdivided for rotational grazing.

Your hay estimate may be low, again depending on where you live. In some areas, small square bales will average 60 to 80 lbs. per bale, especially if they are selling hay by the ton. In other areas (like here in KY) they sell hay by the bale and you will often find that the bales are much lighter. I rarely find hay that is a consistent 50# bale here and often lighter.

I do buy the big round bales, but we peel it off and feed it like loose hay, daily, rather than leave the bales out in the field or in a feeder.

When I was estimating my winter hay needs in MT, I used to figure about 40# per day per horse and the hay there was usually a high percentage of alfalfa, much more nutritious than grass hay. Some horses require less, some more and the winter temperatures make a difference as well, but feeding 40-some horses, I found that was a good estimate.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Horses need between 1% and 2% of their body weight in forage (hay or pasture) daily. The variables are:

their metabolism 
their work load
environmental temperatures
parasite load/age/overall health
the type of haircoat the horse has and whether or not he is blanketed
the quality of the feed


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm a novice myself. I've been doing daily groundwork with horses for 9 months, under a very experienced mentor, and I'm STILL a novice. I only just now started riding. I absolutely can not believe how much there is that you have to know about horses.

My advise would be to find a nearby stable with a lot of horses that are all in good condition and talk to the owner. Ask if you can lease a beginner horse for a monthly fee. Then, go there every day that you possibly can and spend hours there. Groom the horse, learn to saddle it, see about getting some riding lessons there. Mainly, though, just be really quiet and watch what the other people are doing with their horses and copy them.

There is no way in heck I would feel comfortable owning my own horses at my house yet. You would not believe the things you can do wrong without even having a clue you're doing anything wrong. My husband and I each have a horse now, and we board them. It's cheaper and easier than owning them. We don't have to worry about a barn and fences, finding good hay, recognizing when they have a health problem etc. 

We will not feel comfortable keeping horses here for another two years, at least. There are a lot of benefits to leasing from a nearby stable. We have developed relationships with other horse people. If something happens we will know who to call for advice. We know who the good vets are and which vets to stay away from. We know who makes hay and who bales their hay up wet and then sells it to people who don't know better. Etcetera etcetera.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

fffarmergirl said:


> Mainly, though, just be really quiet and watch what the other people are doing with their horses and copy them.


I strongly disagree with this comment and consider it very unsafe. The person you're copying may know nothing more than you do and even if they are experienced, you don't know why they're doing or what response they're looking to achieve. 

Instead of trying to look experienced by copying people you think may have experience, it's far wiser to find a seasoned mentor, ask questions and listen carefully to what they have to say and follow their advice until you have enough basic knowledge to start looking at other methods and options.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Geez! Am I really that awful of a communicator? I must be . . . . . I did not mean copy people to look experienced and I did not mean watch other inexperienced people and do what they do. I mean watch seasoned, experienced people and learn as much as you can from them. Do what they do. There is a lot to be learned by watching - things that can not be explained in words.

Seriously - I don't know if I'm being super sensitive or what. I would think that you, wr, as a very experienced horse person, would agree that others could watch you and learn from you.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

fffarmergirl said:


> Geez! Am I really that awful of a communicator? I must be . . . . . I did not mean copy people to look experienced and I did not mean watch other inexperienced people and do what they do. I mean watch seasoned, experienced people and learn as much as you can from them. Do what they do. There is a lot to be learned by watching - things that can not be explained in words.
> 
> Seriously - I don't know if I'm being super sensitive or what. I would think that you, wr, as a very experienced horse person, would agree that others could watch you and learn from you.


No, I think you are ok. Email/internet is not a great way to communicate.

Yes, of course - you should observe others, notice what they do, and incorporate those successful things into what you do. Naturally assuming that the person you are watching has some skill or success in handling horses. There are many ways to get to the same result; some are better than others, some are faster than others, and they all depend on personality, goals, and temperament.

Being able to watch and observe successful horsemen & women is a great way to learn, because so much is not possible to put into words. If you are patient, and observant, you will learn a lot. 

And, if you are really lucky, you will also have a mentor that can explain things well - and you can ask questions and really understand what they are doing and why. And over time it will come more naturally to you, too.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks, offthegrid!

I think a person would be extremely lucky to have a mentor available at all hours for next to nothing who had a lifetime of knowledge and also could explain things well. My mentors are good and kind and available 24/7 and have a lifetime of knowlege. The mother is a breeder and also does rescue. She used to ride, but she broke her back and hasn't ridden in many years. She does what she's still physically able to do - lots and lots and lots of groundwork. She has a passion for the foals, of course, and she's great at training a person how to train a foal in ground manners. She spends a lot more time with horses than with people. The daughter rides and trains horses. She was born and raised on a horse ranch and everything horse-related is second nature to her. They both try to explain things, but it all just comes so naturally to them that it's hard for them to explain it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

fffarmergirl, perhaps your communication skills are a bit off today but I'm just not the kind of mentor that wants somebody to copy what I do nor do I want to risk them copying someone who has poor skills, simply because they assume that rider knows more than they do. 

When I teach riders, my goal is for them to have a great seat, nice hands and to be able to think their way through a situation and that doesn't come from emulating someone else.


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## Wolfy-hound (May 5, 2013)

I agree that copying what others are doing may not be good advice. If you don't know WHY they are doing what they are doing, it may be bad to do that to the horse you are working with. Even when the person you're copying is experienced and is doing the right thing to the horse they're working with.

Copying the relaxed calm attitude of an experienced person is good. But knowing why they are doing what they are doing is essential in knowing whether to copy it with your own horse or your own riding too. Timing things is also a key thing in horses. Doing something half a second too early or too late can cause the opposite reaction than you want.

So I would say watching other experienced people and seeing why they do what they do and when they do it is good. Copying them without first knowing the 'why' would not be good, potentially.

To the OP, you loved working with that horse and that group of people but please realize not all horses will be like that. I would make certain to hang out with those people a lot and ask lots of questions and let them guide you. Finding a good stable to lease a horse(and possibly change horses to see what kind of horses agree with your expectations) is a great idea, since you would get plenty of experienced people to help you out while not having to dive into the deep end with unknown horses and huge expenses.


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## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

There's also the very distinct possibility that what you think you see might not be the entirety of what's going on. Learning through observation is good, but you might need narration to really get the full picture of what's really happening. When I'm showing someone how to do something with or to a horse, I try very hard to keep up a running dialog about what I'm noticing on the horse, my thought process, what I'm attempting, etcetera. Sometimes that constant patter has a negative affect on what I'm trying to accomplish with the horse - or impedes progress in some way - but if I don't point out all these minutia, the student will miss them. 

The student will notice that I raise my arm to turn the horse, but might miss the fact that I also locked eyes with the horse, took a slight step forward with my left foot, leaned over slightly, AND timed my action to coincide with the horse having reached the corner of the paddock that she usually wants to stop in and having lowered her head and started to lick her lips.

The full picture is so subtle and detailed that learning by emulation only works if you know what you're looking for and looking at.


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## Horseyrider (Aug 8, 2010)

Leasing is a good idea; but even before that, I'd strongly suggest taking lessons. There's just so much to it. If you like the lessons, do it for a year or two, and then want to lease something, that's really great. Many lesson barns have such setups with horses there. But most folks who are willing to lease a horse will want some sort of supervision. They won't necessarily be any too wild about you taking it home unless you buy it. There are too many situations gone sour where a good horse went with inexperienced people and got hurt, sick, or emaciated.

Along the way with lessons, there's a wealth of peripheral information you'll gain. And the financial investment can be quite low; so if you find that owning horses isn't quite for you, you haven't spent a fortune that you might not get back.

Buying a horse these days is easy. Selling one isn't. Especially if it's been messed up in inexperienced hands. Get the experience in a good lesson program, then consider leasing something. Go to seminars, classes, and lectures, read some good books (I have no doubt this crowd can recommend many), and get an idea what kind of riding you wish to do. Trail? Western pleasure? Reining? Barrels? Hunt/jump? Each calls for a different kind of horse, and you need the knowledge base and experience to know how to choose.

BTW, it's going to be scary, expensive, challenging, and a lot of fun. Mostly though, it's going to be fun.


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## rod44 (Jun 17, 2013)

If you live in MN be sure to put in a Bar-Bar-A freeze proof waterer. It is great to have fresh, freeze proof water all winter. I am happy that my wife doesn't have to fight with frozen water tanks when I happen to be gone in the winter.


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## OnyxRiddle (Mar 18, 2013)

I realize I am at risk for being seen as the negative naysayer here, but please understand that I am trying to save you AND your potential horses a lot of money/frustration/heart ache by cautioning you... please do not buy a horse. You are years away from being ready to care for and manage horses on your own. Your weekend sounds like a lot of fun. And that was probably a great way to get your feet wet in horseback riding and horse care. But you are not seeing what work it truly is to own horses. Horses are like having a 1,200 lbs 4 yr old boy as a child. They are gorgeous and majestic and can be completely retarded at times. They need a steady, well educated (in the ways of horsemanship) hand, to constantly stay on top of them. Aside from being a professional trainer who helps take care of a barn full of 23 show horses, I also work as a vet assistant and keep my own horses on my private property. Trust me when I say that horses can be seconds away from disaster daily.

They scratch their face on a fence post and soon you have a splinter of wood piercing the eye (happened last week). 

It gets windy out and they think it feels great. So they start to kick up their heels and play in the pasture. As the run under a tree and jump up, the wind blows a branch down low and the horse ends up braking it's skull right through the nasal cavity. Now you are holding layers of bone and muscle in place for the vet to stitch together, hoping the very expensive medicine will save them from infection and the bone will set and heal. (happened 7 months ago).

Your horse decides it would love to try out that delicious looking grass on the other side of the fence, and ends up getting a leg caught. Now he has skinned his knee down to the bone and the vet says your horse must stay on stall rest for months while it heals. Meanwhile, you have to clean it daily. (This hurts a LOT and your gentle horse suddenly becomes a frightened, struggling 1,200lbs animal that can hurt you both in fear.) Also you have to bandage it each time, basically creating a cast using layers of cotton and wraps. Now you have to feed him expensive medicine twice a day that he does NOT want to eat. Also, your horse is used to being turned out all the time. And the sudden change in diet is constantly giving him stomach issues. Now you also have to worry about colic. Oh, and your horses buddy is stressed out because now he is either forced to be cooped up in the barn too or he is alone in the pasture. (Three months ago) 

Look, I'm not trying to scare you away from horses but you need to understand that unless you know, without any doubt, that you have the experience and knowledge necessary to manage these horses under any situation, then you should not have them under your care. This is not only for your sake but for your horses most of all. If you have the money to board them at a professional barn then great. That is one option. If you have the money to lease one, and you keep it at the professionals barn, that also works. Maybe go to a local rescue and tell them you will volunteer your time to help take care of the horses and learn. Or maybe just go take lessons somewhere and enjoy riding without the stress or expense of taking care of them. 

I know I sound harsh, but this is 24 years of training speaking and I'm trying to help you. Please feel free to message me if you have questions or need help. I would rather point you in the right direction to start your life as a horseman off right, then let you walk into a bad situation.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

I would suggest that you and your wife take lessons for six month. After that I would suggest free leasing a horse for another fix months. That horse shuld be boarded.

I would suggest finding a trainer who boards only a couple of horses. Thing kind of guy will probably spend more one one one time with you. I would also ask the guy to choose your first couple horses. It is way too easy to fall in love with a pretty face. Do you know horsey language?

I have a friend from KY. She has very lush summer grass. She needs more than twos acres per horse. Two acres would probably give you a dry lot, not a pasture. 

Horses cost a lot of money. You can easily find good but inexpensive tack. That is not where you spend money. Barn storage and repair, fence matainenance, feed, etc., are costly. Horses seem to call for accidents. They say, "I want to run into a fence and cut my leg" and stuff like that. Farm calls are expensive. I think you have underestimated the cost of annual vet fees. Shots aren't cheap. You are likely to need a dentist and get your horse's sheath cleaned. Both of those are costly. In my area, our regular vet doesn't do teeth so we would have to call a more expensive and further out vet. 

Oh, would you and your wife be able to do injections in the neck? Eventually your horse is probably need pain meds (abscess or illness). It is actually safer to do them in the neck because they cannot kick you. I'm an RN but it still freaks me out because I am afraid I will hit a vessel. 

There is a lot to think about. Money is the least of them.


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

OnyxRiddle said:


> I realize I am at risk for being seen as the negative naysayer here, but please understand that I am trying to save you AND your potential horses a lot of money/frustration/heart ache by cautioning you... please do not buy a horse. You are years away from being ready to care for and manage horses on your own. Your weekend sounds like a lot of fun. And that was probably a great way to get your feet wet in horseback riding and horse care. But you are not seeing what work it truly is to own horses. Horses are like having a 1,200 lbs 4 yr old boy as a child. They are gorgeous and majestic and can be completely retarded at times. They need a steady, well educated (in the ways of horsemanship) hand, to constantly stay on top of them. Aside from being a professional trainer who helps take care of a barn full of 23 show horses, I also work as a vet assistant and keep my own horses on my private property. Trust me when I say that horses can be seconds away from disaster daily.
> 
> They scratch their face on a fence post and soon you have a splinter of wood piercing the eye (happened last week).
> 
> ...



I totally get what you are saying.


But you also sound like a crusty old truck driver telling a new guy never to buy a semi - truck and become an owner operator.

Yes, you have to understand that major things will happen to your horse (semi). But it should not paralyse a person from entering into ownership.

No one can plan for a horse frolicing and breaking some major bones.

But being aware that a horse can and will injure oneself is another matter.

To address that, I think a face to face discussion with a horse trainer as well as a large animal vet are in order.

At least to get an idea of potential medical costs.

As an addition, while not raised on a farm, I have spent plenty of summers on farms and around animals. Mainly hogs and dairy. Done plenty to help with chores as well as regular field work and such.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

farmerj said:


> I totally get what you are saying.
> 
> 
> But you also sound like a crusty old truck driver telling a new guy never to buy a semi - truck and become an owner operator.
> ...


If you worry about all the "what ifs" in life you'll never do anything. 

I concur with everyone that lessons are the best way to start. Have fun.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> If you worry about all the "what ifs" in life you'll never do anything.
> 
> I concur with everyone that lessons are the best way to start. Have fun.


I agree that long term lessons are the first step for the OP. I would suggest that such a trainer be chosen carefully. My sister paid for eight weeks of lessons for her daughter. She went from never being on a horse to barrel racing in eight weeks. Both think she got really good lessons. Neither realizes that the kid, aroud ten at the time, was basically sitting on a horse like being a passenger in a car. Horses with get up and go aren't necessarily any different than the old nags you find at a trail riding place. 

Contrast that with my daughter's first lessons. We took her to a guy we had heard about through family. She didn't even touch a horse at the first lesson. She learned about horse parts and behavior. For a few weeks she learned how to halter and lead a horse. After several weeks she sat on a horse bareback with airplane arms. A couple weeks later she sat in a saddle with airplane arms. The purpose of outstretched arms was to teach her to balance. People naturally tend to balance by holding onto the horn. That is not its purpose and it can be dangerous to use it that way. 

I have to disagree with you about the what ifs. Wouldn't you be rightfully upset with your GI if he didn't tell you there was a chance he could perforate your colon during a colonoscopy? There are a lot of commercials about psoriasis and rheumatoid arthritis. They always warn that these drugs cause life threatening infections and cancer. Such things happen rarely but most people want to know about every little possibility, no matter how rare it might be.

In the first year and a half one of our boys stepped on a nail, got an abcess, needed antibiotics and pain meds, and then coliced because of the antibiotics. I spent several days checking him out and walking him around day and night. If they have small chilren, OP's wife mght not be able to do this when he is out of town. After our boy recovered he seemed to do well for a week or two. He then started losing a lot weight very rapidly. Vet checked stool and found nothing. He had us worm him again anyway. He continued to lose weight. Before the vet could come back out here we found him dead in the pasture. We have the best vet in the area but he still died.

eta:
We have two easy keepers and live in zone 5 so our winters are not too bad. Our boys can eat down a pasture in two seconds flat. We rotate between a few pastures of two to five acres but still must watch closely for overgrazing. We are fortunate enough to live in an area where we can pasture graze from about May to about November. When it gets really hot during the summer we sometimes have to feed hay. Even though we don't have to feed that much we always keep at least 200 bales on hand just in case. You just never know what the weather will bring.

It's usually best to get a later cutting. Later cuttings are often more expensive because the hay is of better quality. In fact, we just give our first cutting to the guy who cuts our hay. He feeds it to his cattle. We have ten acres in hay. Since we have plenty of storage so we keep it until people run out. We can get a few more bucks a bale that way.

Even though we had horses before we moved out here we kept the boys boarded with our trainer. It was hard enough to learn what we needed to do out here. It sure was a culture shock even though I'd spent a lot time on my grandma's, aunt's and uncle's farms. I just had no idea about the day to day work. 

We pay $80 every two months to trim two horses. We do not shoe. I'd hate to think how expensive that'd be. Our utility bill increases between $30 and $40 per month to keep the 110 gallon from freezing over. Our rodeo guy neighbor says he will never have another mare because they make his geldings lose their brains. 

We don't have a truck and trailer. Yes, having one would eliminate most of the cost for farm calls but the cost of owning a them far exceeds the cost of any additional vet fees. 

Whatever you do, make sure you have a good sized watertight barn and frost free hydrants. Life is very difficult if you don't have an easily available water source right near or in all your pastures.


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## farmerj (Aug 20, 2011)

Being aware of a potential issue and letting it stop you is the difference


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Joshie said:


> I agree that long term lessons are the first step for the OP. I would suggest that such a trainer be chosen carefully. My sister paid for eight weeks of lessons for her daughter. She went from never being on a horse to barrel racing in eight weeks. Both think she got really good lessons. Neither realizes that the kid, aroud ten at the time, was basically sitting on a horse like being a passenger in a car. Horses with get up and go aren't necessarily any different than the old nags you find at a trail riding place.
> 
> Contrast that with my daughter's first lessons. We took her to a guy we had heard about through family. She didn't even touch a horse at the first lesson. She learned about horse parts and behavior. For a few weeks she learned how to halter and lead a horse. After several weeks she sat on a horse bareback with airplane arms. A couple weeks later she sat in a saddle with airplane arms. The purpose of outstretched arms was to teach her to balance. People naturally tend to balance by holding onto the horn. That is not its purpose and it can be dangerous to use it that way.
> 
> ...


Obviously you want a trainer that covers the basics, did that really need to be stated? 

Vet bills, like medical bills, happen. I haven't had an emergency Vet call since 2006 but that could change this afternoon. Crap happens, if you worried about all the what-ifs in life you'd never get out of bed. In order to enjoy life you actually have to go out and do it.


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## Joshie (Dec 8, 2008)

farmerj said:


> I totally get what you are saying.
> 
> 
> But you also sound like a crusty old truck driver telling a new guy never to buy a semi - truck and become an owner operator.





farmerj said:


> Being aware of a potential issue and letting it stop you is the difference





Irish Pixie said:


> Obviously you want a trainer that covers the basics, did that really need to be stated? Your sister is an idiot to have let someone do that to her daughter, hopefully the OP is not.


Irish, my sister was misled. A lot of people get into horses without thinking through the things that can happen. I mentioned it because of the things the OP mentioned about the fair. 

Farmerj, I don't think Onyx sounded like a crusty old truck driver. I think (s)he was trying to be realist and warn you of things that might happen. I hope nothing bad happens if you get horses but things do happen no matter how well you care for a horse. Horses are this odd mix of pet and livestock. 

Sometimes, certainly not all, learning about the what ifs and thinking about how we would do in those types of circumstances, leads us to stop. Please remember that those of us who are saying things you might not want to hear are horse owners. Some want you to learn from their mistakes. We are horse owners and love horses. We have been where you are and we went forward anyway. 

I'm not trying to discourage you but I am saying I think it might be better for your family and future horses to take things slowly. It doesn't sound as if you yet own horse-type property. I hope you can one day own horses but I hope you go slowly and lead with your head and not with your heart.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I disagree, Joshie your sister was unwise and she's lucky her daughter wasn't hurt. After the first two lessons or so she should have realized (any adult should have) that they were going way too fast. 

Did you miss that FarmerJ and his wife are adults? I think it was in the first post...


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

I think lessons are a good starting place. I'm not so sure about all the have your trainer choose your horse suggestions.

There are good, knowledgable, honest trainers. There are also many that are not so honest, or not talented, or need money because they don't make very much. Some trainers see clients as someone to make as much money as possible off of. They won't I look at a horse they don't get a kickback on.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Molly Mckee said:


> I think lessons are a good starting place. I'm not so sure about all the have your trainer choose your horse suggestions.
> 
> There are good, knowledgable, honest trainers. There are also many that are not so honest, or not talented, or need money because they don't make very much. Some trainers see clients as someone to make as much money as possible off of. They won't I look at a horse they don't get a kickback on.


It's a very good idea to chose one's trainer carefully because so much can depend on their ethics and not all trainers have the same code of ethics. 

A trainer recommends a horse can receive a commission or in some cases a finders fee and if they guide a novice rider toward a handyman's special, they can actually make quite a bit of money retraining or simply working the kinks out of a horse and then time spent helping a novice rider become one with the kink free horse. 

I've had great luck finding horses through my farrier. He may make a big of money on commission but he also knows if the horse is sound and sane, who many owners it's had and what the horse is currently being used for. 

I do agree that a new owner should be aware that horses may have accidents and injuries but those mentioned are very extreme and absolutely not the norm or at least it isn't the norm within the realm of my experience.


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## reubenT (Feb 28, 2012)

Best thing you could do is study horses from every source possible, care, handling, training. Those of us who really love horses never get tired of them. I started when I was 20 and have been at it for 27 years. 
Since every time we ride we are training, it's best to know some training principals so we don't inadvertently "train" our horse to bad habits. And the best training videos I've ever watched were also the cheapest. Home made by Marv Walker.
Horses always think in terms of the herd social system, and he explains how to work with their social system better than anyone I've heard.

I think the next best are the expensive professional ones by Clint Anderson. 

It takes a lot of work, time, and some money, but the rewards can be significant.

Sometimes I think I put way more into them than I get out, but then I think what it would be like without them, and it seems life without them would get pretty lonely. They get to be like part of the family. 

I've trained a few wild mustangs, and worked with several other breeds, had a mule, a suffolk draft horse, an arab, and presently I enjoy riding a paso fino. 

It's interesting; you've been trucking and are thinking about horses. I've been into horses for years and just thinking about trucking. I'm repairing a one ton truck and aiming toward car hauling for a short time, since a friend has gotten his "authority" and started hauling cars. All I need do is get something ready to go and he can get me the loads.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Farmerj; I don't think anyone is really trying to stop you-only pointing out that you got to see the eating end of a good horse and that's the rosy end. Since you're an otr driver I'm pretty sure you have the grit to do it. A couple of good solid older horses-ones that are past the age of deliberately getting themselves into trouble wouldn't be that hard to keep. The only thing you could do with two acres is have about a 1/4ac dry lot by the barn then split the rest in two. That would give them a couple hours grazing each day if you rotate. Horses should have at least 10% of their body weight in roughage (hay) each day. That means a 40lb bale would do two horses for one day. That would probably not meet their energy needs so they would probably need grain too. Free choice my Quarter horses will eat 40lbs each a day in the winter. (Doesn't mean they need that much-just that if it's there they'll eat it.) We have fed round bales in what they now call a cattle feeder for years. If it's muddy they'll drag hay out and trample it-if it's frozen or dry they barely waste any. You might be able to do some horse trading on hay, help out a local farmer baling to cut the price. Good way to see what's in the bales too. Since you seem to have struck a friendship with the folks at the renaissance maybe you could work something with them to work with their horses and help out in the barn and at events for some behind the scenes insight. Everyone has their own way of doing things-pick what works for you and enjoy. Good Luck!


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## Peepsqueak (Apr 6, 2005)

Lots of good knowledge here. I am a novice owner myself. I would have a horse with other owners with a herd so the horses are not lonesome because they are herd animals and a cooporative care program where everyone helps each other. Otherwise horse ownership gets expensive like pay a couple of car notes.


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