# Generators?



## blue8ewe (Oct 25, 2006)

Im sure they are not all created equal, so what is the best? And would work for different uses. Keep in mind we have a large family, if that would matter at all. AND they take fuel to run so can someone give me an idea of how much fuel it takes for X amount of hours of running time? 
In a long term situation is it even worth it?


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## danoon (Dec 20, 2006)

Good question.... I would guess everyone likes the one they have if it runs and doesn't burn too much gas. I would google "generator reviews" and see what you get. I was going to get a small Honda but the wife gave me "that look" after hearing the price. *sigh*


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## Ed_Stanton (Dec 28, 2004)

Here is a good article to get you started. 

http://www.homepower.com/files/generators.pdf

There is no way to precisely answer your questions as it all depends on budget, use and the load that the generator is going to run under. Honda are probably one of the most highly rated gasoline generators, though Yamaha and others are likely pretty good too. Hondas may also be a bit more expensive than most. Some gasoline brands use a Honda or other gas engine and their own "generator", such as the Onan brand. Some gas models can also be converted or offer models to run on propane but while the full may be a savings, the engine is still a high RPM gasoline engine, so it's life will be as short as a gasoline engine.

If you plan to run things like some computers and monitors or some other electrical components, you want your generator to put out very clean electricity, such as pure sinewave power vs. modified sinewave. Also, most high end electronics and battery chargers do best with generators that have a high peak voltage. This is what you are paying for with Hondas. For a large family using electricity all at once without battery backup, I'd say that you'd need at least a 5 - 6.5 KW or larger generator.

The ratings of generators are often "peak" loads (not to be confused with "peak voltage" above) and they aren't meant to actually run all the time at that advertised power. Eg. a 5 KW or 5000 watt generator, may only run at 4-4500 watts as it's "normal" operating output, with 5,000 watts being peak. Also, the fuel used will depend on the load that it is under. More load = more fuel used.

I have a 4 year old 7.5 KW Kubota diesel generator and it uses approximately 2 litres or 1/2 a gallon per hour under normal loads, which for me are charging 12 large 1260 amp/hr batteries, running appliances like a top load washer, dishwasher, 2 computers, lights, and battery chargers and a few other things all at once, though I've yet to overload it. You need to add up the power consumed by your household needs to figure out the generator required. You can download an energy list to add up your appliances etc. here:

http://www.homepower.com/magazine/downloads_other_good_stuff.cfm

For long term use a diesel generator will be better value and more reliable but more costly upfront. Diesel motors generally run at lower RPM's than gasoline and so will last longer, amongst other reasons. Yanmar, Deutz, Lister, Kubota, Isuzu and a few others are all very good diesel engines with Yanmar supposedly THE best and they offer excellent generator combos from what I've been told. Stamford are good "generators" often attached to the above diesel engines. Most diesel "generators" have a different brand engine and electrical generator. My diesel Kubota "generator" has a Kubota engine and a Stamford generator.

If you look carefully, there are many excellent values on used diesel generators. Like used vehicles, make sure that you get it inspected by an independant mechanic and or electrician !!!

Hope this helps get you started.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Hi,
Our generator is strictly for emergency power when the grid power goes down. For this use, I decided on using propane for fuel because gasoline and diesel have a shelf life, whereas propane is forever. 

We heat with propane, so I plan to hook the propane generator up to the same propane storage tank we use for heating.

We have friends in Seattle, and hearing what the went through on the storm a couple months ago finally made us spring for an emergency generator.
I settled on a 3000 watt (3500 surge) generator. This is enough to run the essential things with some margin, and to charge up a deep cycle battery so the generator does not have to be on all the time. This is probably not enough to start our big well pump, but we have several 10 gallon containers or drinking water, and several 55 gallon containers of other water, and plan to add some rainwater catchment in the spring.

We also added a backup propane heater that requires no electricity -- just in case the furnace decides to go out during one of those -20F spells 

I just ordered my generator a couple days ago -- its in shipping now.

Gary


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

SolarGary said:


> Hi,
> Our generator is strictly for emergency power when the grid power goes down. For this use, I decided on using propane for fuel because gasoline and diesel have a shelf life, whereas propane is forever.
> 
> We heat with propane, so I plan to hook the propane generator up to the same propane storage tank we use for heating.
> ...


Gary, have you seen the conversion kits that allow you to run gasoline, natural gas or lp on a generator? http://www.propane-generators.com/type_4.htm


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Excellent Bob, I would luv my Honda to run on propane (dual fuel) and I've neighbors would will want this for theirs too!


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

ZealYouthGuy said:


> Gary, have you seen the conversion kits that allow you to run gasoline, natural gas or lp on a generator? http://www.propane-generators.com/type_4.htm


Hi Bob,
I did see those, and it was tempting. 
I think that if I had already had a gasoline generator I would have given that a try.
The one I have ordered is a JK-TEK ordered off ebay -- hope it works out 

Gary


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

My Coleman Powermate with 10hp Tecumseh runs about 10 hours on a full 5 gallon tank of gas. All it powers is the water pump for about 15 - 20 minutes at a time, every couple of days. Even with such a small load, I am unhappy with it. It is impossible for me to start it on very cold days, which leaves me without water. Using 10w30 oil has helped a little but not much. If a person can't start his or her genny, it is useless. Fortunately for me, I have a neighbor who has been wonderful about starting my genny when he is around. Genny with a 5500 running watt capcity can't power small air compressors which contarctors have brought over. If you are building you will need something considerably mrore powerful. 

If you are off grid look for one that will interface with your inverter. I'm saving for a 7500 watt Honda right now. It will be strictly back up since the ac pump is about to be removed in favor of a flowlight booster pump. In my case, the fuel usage will not be as important a consideration as someone who will be running it more often. Depending on your level of knowledge and strength I find ease of starting in cold weather/electric start, noise level, and ability to power my highest potential loads most important.


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## Ed_Stanton (Dec 28, 2004)

Tango, if 10W30 oil is the reason for your engine not starting, then perhaps consider going to a lighter weight synthetic oil, like a 5W30 or 5W50? Costco has good deals on sythetic oil. Here in northern Canada, I've only used synthetics in my vehicle for 10 years, my Honda gasoline engine powering an old Generac generator for 2 years and my now diesel generator (which I have using 0W40 full synthetic desgined for diesels) and I have not had problems starting any of them in pretty cold winter temps such as -25 F. On the rare occassion the diesel has had problems running due to fuel gelling on the coldest days if I didn't get anti-gel and some PowerMax in there soon enough, but it's always turned over and started. 

My criteria is a bit like yours and fortunately the Kubota diesel which I bought used with 3000 hrs. on it, runs like new, is extremely quiet (unlike the loud clacking of my neighbours very old 3 KW Deutz diesel but his too always starts and runs and he only uses a generator for power). I also get much better on fuel economy with my diesel under larger loads than I got with the Honda engine that was running the old Generac 4 KW generator that I first used. 

But most important for me I learned was the MUCH cleaner power and much higher peak voltage put out by the Stamford generator / Kubota diesel engine combo vs. the Honda/Generac. With the latter, my house batteries did not seem to ever get a really full charge due to the lower peak voltage, nor did some of my appliances like it nor was there enough power to run under much of a load. But I use my generator to run all my electrical needs vs. just a pump or for occassional emergencies.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

Tango said:


> My Coleman Powermate with 10hp Tecumseh runs about 10 hours on a full 5 gallon tank of gas. All it powers is the water pump for about 15 - 20 minutes at a time, every couple of days. Even with such a small load, I am unhappy with it. It is impossible for me to start it on very cold days, which leaves me without water. Using 10w30 oil has helped a little but not much. If a person can't start his or her genny, it is useless. Fortunately for me, I have a neighbor who has been wonderful about starting my genny when he is around. Genny with a 5500 running watt capcity can't power small air compressors which contarctors have brought over. If you are building you will need something considerably mrore powerful.
> 
> If you are off grid look for one that will interface with your inverter. I'm saving for a 7500 watt Honda right now. It will be strictly back up since the ac pump is about to be removed in favor of a flowlight booster pump. In my case, the fuel usage will not be as important a consideration as someone who will be running it more often. Depending on your level of knowledge and strength I find ease of starting in cold weather/electric start, noise level, and ability to power my highest potential loads most important.


.....................We missed you! :buds: Try changing the oil in your engine , over to 5w-20 , SYNthetic , try Mobile 1 . It should reduce your cranking effort significantly during cold weather . Once it starts warming Up switch back over to 10w-30 until the fall . fordy...


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

During our recent ice storm I fired up a 5.5 KW Troybilt powered by a Briggs, strictly a "300 hour" expectation. 

I did not try to power anything heavy--an oxygen concentrator, lights, the fireplace blower, electric wok, blankets, etc. 

Under those light loads I ran the generator 90 hours at just over 7 gallons of gasoline per day. The generator is relatively new and used just under (If I recall correctly) 21 cc's of synthetic oil in that 90 hours. It started on first pull every time. I was quite pleased. 
Ox


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Hi Fordy and Ed, thank you for the advice and my apologies for the thread drift. I can't remember what oil it had before but it was impossible for me to start then. The 10w30 has made it easier to start on cold days but it is still very hard for me and many times I can't start it at all. I will take you up on your advice and try synthetic, sure can't hurt nuthin'.


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## Highground (Jan 22, 2003)

A little starting fluid usually gets an engine started.


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## mowrey1999 (Aug 25, 2005)

2 brands of generators you can buy right off the shelf that run on several fuel types are the honda and yamaha, they are called tri fuel generators and can run on gasoline.propane/or natural gas, they are a little more expensive than a briggs and stratton but the life of the motors speak for there selves and they are also quiet, here is a quote I saw on them online? I have a trifuel Yamaha ef3000iseb and it uses about 1lb. per hour at a steady 950 watt load. I haven't done any other tests at other loads but but you can expect to use a little more propane than gasoline for the same load, the 10% figure I have seen seems accurate. I have ran it under almost full load at near freezing temps on a 1/4 full 20lb. tank and no signs of freezing up. If it ever freezes up then you just switch to gasoline, also try this link-www.nooutage.com/fuels.htm gives some information by fuel types and has a lot of information


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Highground said:


> A little starting fluid usually gets an engine started.


Not mine, it doesn't. :baby04:


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## SouthernThunder (Jun 3, 2004)

I just got a good lesson in generators durring the ice storm that hit MO and OK. We had to put 114 generators out in subfreezing weather and let them run continiously for about 14 days. We used 3 kinds:

1) Honda
2) Porter Cable
3) Contractor Line

1) Out of these the honda was the best. They all fired up right away even when it was 0 degrees out. Not one of them locked up during their 14 day run. The only consistant problem with the hondas was the fuel fitting for the fuel line comes loose and begins to leak. They were easy on oil and run smooth once warm.

2) The porter cables were "ok". They are kinda hard to start when cold and run rough till warm. Also we had about 5 or so out of the 50 that locked up and would not turn over. Keep in mind we checked the oil twice a day so this wasnt because of abuse.

3) The "contractor line" gennys make good boat anchors. They look fancy and start fairly eailsy but beyond that they are trash. After 1 day the oil started getting black so we changed it. 3 days it was black AND had metal in it. After about a weeks worth of running they wouldn't go for more than 8 hours without burning up all their oil! We had very few left at the end of the 2 weeks...

Hope you can use this info.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Thanks ST,

Again it just kinda proves; Ya git what ya pay for.

I am surprised that Porter Cable has put their name on an inferior product.
I have not seen any PC labled gens . . . .yet


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

We run a 40 kw Winco PTO generator on a 115hp John Deere. Running close to a full load it probably averages 10-12 litres of diesel an hour. It's almost 40 years old now, should replace it soon.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

DaleK said:


> We run a 40 kw Winco PTO generator on a 115hp John Deere. Running close to a full load it probably averages 10-12 litres of diesel an hour. It's almost 40 years old now, should replace it soon.


40KW? You could run a small town on that...


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

ZealYouthGuy said:


> 40KW? You could run a small town on that...


Or a 7.5hp milk pump, 7.5hp stable cleaner, 2 big milk coolers, water heater, 10 hp silo unloader, several large fans......

Actually when I'm milking I can also run the stable cleaner OR the silo unloader, not both.


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## Country Doc (Oct 26, 2005)

DaleK said:


> We run a 40 kw Winco PTO generator on a 115hp John Deere. Running close to a full load it probably averages 10-12 litres of diesel an hour. It's almost 40 years old now, should replace it soon.



I was told a pto generator would kill a tractor if used more than a few hours. They said the tractors are designed to be moving to cool them. It sounds like crap to me because:
1. there are a lot of Pto generators sold.
2. the speed of a moving tractor in low gear does little to cool the engine compared to the fan.

Am I wrong?


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

I think you've got your head screwed on more or less correctly. As long as the fan keeps running on the tractor it will pull enough air through to cool it, a moving tractor doesn't add much to cooling. We leave tractors stationary with the PTO running in lots of other situations, running forage blowers, manure pumps, for hours and hours and it doesn't bother them as long as you keep an eye on fluids etc.


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

If you do a search of " generators" on this website, you will get a lot of advice & suggestions.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Remember YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR-cheap crap is cheap crap-quality is always more expensive and MUCH cheaper in the long run.NO CHINESE CRAP...


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## blue8ewe (Oct 25, 2006)

Id like to know more about the Kubota diesel. Anyone have an opinion? Ive heard their tractors are awesome. 
We would need something to run the home. My washer and dryer, maybe a water heater, and purifier(filter) are my biggest concern. I can use wood to heat, lamps for light, wood or propane to cook. Maybe I am forgetting a lot but hopeful someone here can set me straight.


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## Esteban29304 (Apr 29, 2003)

If you plan on running a genset to power your entire, large home, diesel is the way to go. It will be the cheapest in fuel use, & last the longest. It is better, in my opinion, to learn to be VERY conservative, when power is out, & therefore not need a whole house generator system. Kubota, Isuzu diesels are good. If you don't mind one being built like a tank, these are great machines. Run at a slow rpm , so much less fuel is used. 
http://www.affordablepower.com/index.html


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## blue8ewe (Oct 25, 2006)

Well the home is not large yet, but it may get that way. And yes, I would like for it to be able to run everything- but dont intend to. Just want to have the ability. Our intention is to be off grid and dont want to be limited to what we can do buy making an uninformed/ilinformed purchase. 
So, water heating and laundry (for a very large family, but not necessarily a large home) and on ocasion the running of a machine or two. We may look at haveing a different set up for that.


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## Hardy Solar (Feb 13, 2007)

SDMO is a bad company. we are constantly having problems with them, they weezle their way out of every warrantee issue. stay away form them. perkins is good, i think they are the best bang for the buck and they send out technicians if you have a problem with them. I also see that isuzu's are great generators as well. check for the reliability of the company you are buying from just in case you have problems. lots of companies won't help you with technical support or answer questions when you need them. but check perkins out for sure. BEST BY FAR...

go diesel, propane and gas generators tend to be junk, and break down more often. 

http://www.hardysolar.com/shop/home.php?cat=4


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## Ed_Stanton (Dec 28, 2004)

My 7.5 KW Kubota Model D1005 has been excellent but I have no experience with others to compare it to, nor have I had any warranty service experience as it has not needed any service other than regular oil & air filter & coolant changes. It has 3900 hours and I bought it with 3,000 hours on it. This model is no longer made, but the 8? KW replacement looks the same in the pictures at least. I don't have a large family nor experience with how many people's needs it would serve to give you a recommendation.

I'm also not sure that I'd recommend heating water with it unless you plan on running it for many hours on a regular basis. I opted for a Bosch vented propane instant On hot water heater. I think that this would provide a better source of hot water for a large family. I also never use hot water for laundry, there is no need to these days except for perhaps a few items that don't apply to me at least or that I'm even aware of.

Are you also going to be using the generator to charge batteries and use them via an inverter or will you only have power when the generator is running?

I'd strongly suggest that you do an energy budget (how much each person expects to use and when) so that you don't end up buying a generator that does not have enough capacity now or in the future. Otherwise, without figuring out all of your appliance's needs uses, you'll just be guessing at how much power you'll need and when.


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## susieM (Apr 23, 2006)

I have a very nice 2.0 Honda generator. It was quite expensive (about $2000) , but it works perfctly well.

I did have one slight problem with it after the first few hours of use, when it was a pig to start and would only run wih the choke full on...but the shop took it and replaced the sparkplug (I had thought it was a problem with the fuel line), and said the problem came because it had stood so long unsold before I came along and bought it.

It really is too big for our small (camper) needs, but that's all that was avilable at the time.


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