# PapaRed wants angora bunnies



## MamaRed (Dec 18, 2013)

In my quest to learn about spinning and alpacas, and all that fun stuff, I've dragged my husband to classes and meetings. He wanted to learn so he could help me, but he didn't really get my fascination with the whole process.

We went to the vendor section of a fiber retreat yesterday, and I made him look at and touch all the different fibers and blends. He's a convert!:bandwagon:

I've read some of your posts here about angora rabbits - his drug of choice - and have picked up a lot of process-based info. Can you all recommend some good books about the care of angoras? Housing, feeding, breeding, etc. I have a fear of any animal that has those 2 long front teeth, designed to bite straight through my fingers, so he'll pretty much be on his own with the day to day care.eep:


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## Falls-Acre (May 13, 2009)

As a rabbit breeder, I would recommend buying from a breeder, preferably someone with a decent reputation, since they will do the right thing and steer you correctly. A good breeder will happily answer any and all questions and guide you. Also, Angora rabbits do not do well crossed to non-Angora rabbits... you lose the quality of the wool, and often the wool itself. Crosses within Angora breeds are okay, but not outside that generality. A reputable breeder won't outcross.

I can put your mind at ease about the teeth. No reputable breeder would EVER sell a vicious rabbit, and in truth won't breed or even keep them. There is no place in this world for a vicious rabbit, but don't confuse territoriality or defensiveness for viciousness. A vicious rabbit attacks without reason or cause. I've had 3 of these in 20 years of breeding, and never in the Angora breeds. The mere fact of regular grooming tends to make these guys more laid-back for the most part I've found.

As for the rest, I had written a couple sections with some minor detailed information, but wasn't sure it was alright for me to post it here. So I'll wait and see what others say about my doing so before putting it back.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

On the other hand, the most vicious rabbit we ever owned was a German Angora buck that would stalk you then leap in for a full bite.

We used to let our rabbits play on the grass in the side yard. I tried to keep a broom at hand when he was out.

He was an exceptional exception to the rule.

Have a good day!


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

Check out this previous message thread for links to Angora rabbit care
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/rabbits/498150-new-angora-rabbits.html

Have a good day!


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

MamaRed - Looks like your husband caught the bunny bug. I'd get Storey's Guide To Raising Rabbits to learn the basics of their care. There's a lot of angora specific info around here that you can add to that basic knowledge. This book is one of my favorite references books for angora rabbits. I think I paid around $20 going through the guild instead of using Amazon, but that was a while ago. Here's a link:
http://ncag.blogspot.com/2005/11/angora-handbook.html


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Keep in mind that Angora rabbits are a LOT of work. Much of that also depends on what kind of Angoras you choose to get. They generally have a fairly special diet designed to hAve the majority of the protein go toward hair growth and health rather than meat and bulk as you would in a meat rabbit. Back when I was breeding and raising Angoras the bible to use was a Canadian book called, Completely Angora by Kilfoyle & Samson. I'm not sure if it is still in print but you can find copies on Amazon.

Have fun! Have you ever spun bunny fluff? You may want to get some and spin it. Some people are very allergic to Angora rabbits.


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## MamaRed (Dec 18, 2013)

Thanks for your responses! My fear of all things "buck-toothed" is pretty ingrained. They don't make me jump around and scream, but you won't catch me touching one. Maybe some good bunnies will get me over it, but my husband knows they'll be his babies. (For the record, I'm not afraid of snakes, spiders, bugs, etc. Just small, furry things with sharp teeth.)

I'll have Papa check out the books you've recommended. He's off to MN for a week of fun and adventure (business inservice), and will have some time to do some research. I've forwarded all your links and suggestions to him.

I've never actually spun anything! We looked at wheels this weekend, and will be purchasing one and getting it set up once Papa returns next week. Then we'll be buying different fleeces, furs, and fluffs, to work with, so we can figure out for sure which critters we want to have on hand. My vote is alpaca, then some pygora, and he wants to add the angora bunnies to the mix. I know these are supposed to be a little trickier to work with, so I'll be practicing on wool, first.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

It's not the teeth you need to worry about, it's the sticker feet! Rabbits have claws and their instinct is to kick out when folks lift them up. This is not only hazardous to the bunny since they can break their back doing that, but it also can make long scratches on arms as well. So until you and your bunny get more used to each other, wearing long sleeves might be a good idea.

We have English angoras, they are the smallest of the angora breeds and have some of the softest wool. They have fuzzy ears and fuzzy faces and look ungawdly cute. Since we keep them as fiber critters and not show bunnies, they usually get their fiber harvested several times a year. This is when it is getting long and would need the most grooming if we were going to leave the coat on them for show purposes so some of the bunnies can almost go with no grooming between fiber harvests. Some of them do get mats though and need intermittent grooming between fiber harvests. Ease of coat care is one of the things selected for when we breed, though, so the coats are getting easier to maintain. However, fiber quality is more important than ease of coat maintenance so we still have some that mat.

Good luck on finding "Completely Angora" for less than the price of a show bunny! It's been out of print for awhile. However, all is not lost! There is a perfect book for you called "The Nervous New Owner's Guide to Angora Rabbits" by Suzie Sugrue. It is also currently in publication. http://www.amazon.com/Nervous-Owners-Guide-Angora-Rabbits/dp/0578071770

English angora fiber is easy enough to spin, at least, I think so. Some of the other breeds of angora might be a bit slipperier, though.

For their diet, high protein bunny pellets is a good start. Also providing hay is good since you want them to get a lot of roughage to keep their gut working in case (or rather when) they ingest hair from grooming themselves. You can also give them vegetables and forage. They prefer carrot tops to carrots and a lot of other garden trimmings can be fed to them. If you should happen to have a mulberry bush, up to 60% of their diet can be mulberry leaves. According to the folks who write "Rabbit Production" at least. There is a list of bunny forages and what not to feed the bunny at: https://sites.google.com/site/hillsidefarmhawaii/home









Everyone needs a few bunnies! 










Plus you can do fun things with bunnies. Sometimes they go to knitting group, although they don't knit much.









Sometimes they are in parades.









And you can always take them to bunny shows:

And "bunny berries" are really good for your garden!


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

MamaRed - the book, Completely Angora, can be expensive. Some libraries loan books to other libraries. I found a copy of it in a state adjacent to my own and that library was willing to loan the book out to my library so I could read it. I forget what it's called..interlibrary loan maybe. It's an option if all you can find are hefty prices on this out of print book. After I read it, I wanted my own reference copy and was lucky enough to get a fair price from another rabbit owner. At the time, my other option, if I wanted to own a copy, was to pay over $100 for it..YIKES! I was very lucky.


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## Taylor R. (Apr 3, 2013)

Can I just say..very nicely done. I haven't figured out a way to make my husband think that angora bunnies and a wheel are _his_ idea yet...maybe I need to drag him to a fiber festival???


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## MamaRed (Dec 18, 2013)

I see Completely Angora and The Nervous..guide on Amazon. Papa is also looking into local angora shows so he can learn more.We're lucky to have fairgrounds nearby, where there is an animal show of some sort nearly every weekend.

Taylor, definitely drag him to fiber shows! It helps that my husband was into macrame, beading, etc, in the 70s. At the show we just went to, he was especially interested in the looms. I'm extremely lucky that he's very supportive and really wants me to do things I enjoy.


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

I read the The Nervous one too  Local angora events are a great idea. You'll learn a lot from talking with people who raise them.


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

Taylor, take him to a fiber festival and point out the handcrafted wheel and the way the BEARINGS are incorperated ...you know ----guy lingo !! hee hee !

Thoes buns in the parade are fun looking !! 

I have 1 French Angora that I pluck throughout the year , not really hard to care for at all ! 
Keep her out of wet and wind, outside .... brush a few times /week , all good ! Not as big of a deal as I thought when first starting out !


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## MamaRed (Dec 18, 2013)

Oh, yeah, Taylor! There was a guy there from Clemes & Clemes, giving a demo of their electric carder, and explaining all the technical stuff. AND, I've met a couple of husbands who took up making wheels in their workshops, so they could use all their woodworking tools.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

MamaRed said:


> Oh, yeah, Taylor! There was a guy there from Clemes & Clemes, giving a demo of their electric carder, and explaining all the technical stuff. AND, I've met a couple of husbands who took up making wheels in their workshops, so they could use all their woodworking tools.


Yeah, I'm gonna need a drill press, a lathe, band saw, table saw, power sander, drum sander, shop vaccuum, dust collection system, sound system CD/MP3 comptible with tape deck and turntable for all my old stuff in boxes in the garage, and a couple other things I can't think of right now!

Have a good day!


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## MamaRed (Dec 18, 2013)

Hotzcatz, your pictures weren't showing up before, but I see them now. Those are some pretty stinkin' cute bunnies!


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

If PapaRed wants to pay shipping, I'll send ya a few. I think there's four to six too many out there at the moment. It would probably be less expensive to find them locally, though, since airfare ain't cheap.
















Twinkle, the blond boy bunny in the pictures above, has just met up with Cheri, the gray girl bunny, so there should be baby bunnies sometime in mid to late March. 

Later this week, Sunny (another blond boy bunny) will probably meet up with Lotus (another gray girl bunny) so that would be both of our gray bunnies bred to blond boy bunnies. There is a fawn (blonde) girl bunny that may meet up with a boy bunny, too, but other than those three, that will probably be all the litters for this year. It's pretty easy to get too many bunnies!


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Sure are pretty buns Hotzcats. I was just reading over on the National Angora Rabbit Breeders Club researching what they had to say about satin angoras. I always thought English had the finest fiber. This is what I just read on the NARBC website -

"The wool of the Satin Angora is finer than the wool of the other Angora breeds. The wool is to be fine, soft and silky. There is to be a good crimp to the underwool. The Satin Angora wool appears to be &#8216;shiny&#8217;, which is known as sheen. The smaller diameter and clarity of the hair shaft provides a reflection of light that gives the hair a shining richness of color. The sheen is to be evident over the entire body from nose to tail"
Here is where I found this quote clicking on satin angoras. 
http://www.nationalangorarabbitbreeders.com/angora-rabbit-breeds.htm

News to me. I thought satins had fiber like French with more guard hair and English had very little guard hair making them finer. I guess you probably already knew this. I'm always the last to know. lol


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Satins do have lovely fiber, I've seen some and it's lovely, soft and shiny although they don't produce much of it from what I've heard. A lot of folks breed Satins into the other angora breeds to try to add shiny to their fiber, although the shiny requires a double recessive to get shiny so it's tough.

I originally got English since there was a pair available from Oahu so shipping was only inter-island instead of from the mainland. That pair was too inbred though so they were pretty quickly replaced with three pairs shipped in from the mainland. Those three pairs have multiplied and now there's lots of angoras on the island although probably the majority of them are descendants from the bunnies here. There's one other person on the island that I know of who imports bunnies, he has some English as well as Satin and Germans or Giants, I get the two mixed up. 

It would be tough to choose which angora breed if I were to start over. I really like the English since they are friendly little critters and terribly cute. Their fiber is just lovely which is the reason to have them. If I were to choose again, I'd try to find fiber from each of the angora breeds and compare the fiber before picking which ones, but I suspect I'd get English again.

Well, Lotus doesn't like Sunny. I gave them some play time together today and she wasn't interested in him at all. Hmpf! Well, maybe she will change her mind tomorrow.


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

What was I going to say about angora rabbits? hmmm I love them all!! And I love the fiber from all of them. NARBC corrected me about giants too. It all really doen't matter. I thought I had it all straight but I don't. It all doesn't really matter when you have a brand spankin new baby goat!! lol 

Aside from the occasional psycho, I think if rabbits are socialized well by their breeders, then you have some super sweet bunnies. I think they are all sweet when raised this way.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

New baby goat? There's a new baby goat? What kind of baby goat? Where's the pictures!!!

We go by the "reach out and touch some bunny" theory of rabbit raising. From the moment they are born, less than an hour old, even, they are handled. The mom bun is handled from birth, the baby buns get picked up, everyone gets messed with. They are used to being handled so they don't get upset later when we pick them up and carry them around. Keeps them friendly, too, especially if they get bribes. Bunnies love bribes.


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Hotzcatz - The baby goat is on baby animal thread born early this morning. He's an angora goat (mohair is the fiber and angora is for their origin).


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## MamaRed (Dec 18, 2013)

Reading about "picking them up and carrying them around" just made me shudder with anxiety. Seriously. I need to get over it. I must have had some horrific bunny experience as a child.

Here's the really crazy part: Hotz, I LOVE your little blond boy, and want to pet him! He would make anything absolutely gorgeous. Shipping from HI is probably a bit high, but I will definitely keep it in mind.


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## Taylor R. (Apr 3, 2013)

MamaRed, I was terrified of rabbits for a long time when I was a younger. One of our meat mutts bit the end of my finger off when I was a toddler, and they freaked me out for a long time. Just make sure you get buns who have been well socialized. Being around bunnies who don't bite and forcing myself to hold them have made a world of difference. It still scares the bejeebers out of me when our house rabbit tries to nibble when he isn't getting enough attention, but I'm confident enough now that I can get back on the horse, so to speak. P.S., below is a picture of our house bunny, Perry.


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Taylor - Perry is really pretty. 

Mamared - Another option could be to start off with a breeding pair, then handle the babies frequently so you bond with them and they bond with you. You would be their other mom...not so scary.


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## Taylor R. (Apr 3, 2013)

Thanks, we rescued him..oh..8 years ago. He was two then. He's been an awesome friend to us.


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## MamaRed (Dec 18, 2013)

Perry is pretty with his spots! I thought about starting with babies. Papa would have to handle the parents. I really am willing to try to get over it. It makes me feel like such a sissy. The angoras also look pretty mellow. I'll just have to carry one around in my pocket until I'm not afraid anymore.:thumb:


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## Falls-Acre (May 13, 2009)

Another thing to keep in mind with Angoras: they come in tons of pretty colors! There are even broken ones now (color/white spotted), though those are still very hard to find. I've had both English and French Angoras, and while I do like the smaller body size and slightly more petite appetite of the English, I really preferred the easier wool care of the French. They just seemed to develop fewer mats, the hair plucked super easy, and they were larger without being enormous.

I only have 1 left now, and he's a cross of Lionhead & Angora (all I could find locally), so the jury is still out on the quality of his wool. But I've found as I get older, I can't really take the slam to my allergies that regular wool care causes.

But I still love the various natural colors of Angora!


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## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

Well I hve read this thread.....and now I want bunnies!!!! Only thing tht will same me is that DH will not allow it!! LOL We have enough animals around already. But they are so darn cute!!!!

Allice in Virginia


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Your bunnies are adorable Hotzcats! Love the greys ears!

I used to have some rabbits way back when. Did not raise them, so we had the boys fixed.
Made for some nice mellow pets.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

MamaRed, I have had Angoras for over 20 years, NEVER has one tried to bite me. Also have raised meat rabbits , started in the 70's-only one tried to bite me and she was an over protective Mama, once she started it she never stopped. I had problems with the neighbor dogs,so that is where it might have started. The best thing I can tell you about avoiding getting scratched, and I've had some doozies- Rabbits like to have their feet upagainst something. So when I have children hold them , I have them put the rabbits feet against the childs chest. The only time they seem to scratch is when they are initaly being lifted. So pick them up by the scruff of the neck and immeatly put your hand under their back feet. Even still, some will not scratch and some are bad.


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

BTW, the people who are breeding Satin Angoras into the French Angoras are misguided. 

A French Angora with a wool coat in prime condition will shine. To get a shiny coat a breeder has to breed for good, shiny coats.

A Satin Angora has "sheen" which is a quality that is inherent in the structure of the wool shaft. It's a special genetic combination that is required. 

When we had trouble locating SA rabbits for breeding, we cross bred the Satin breed (short hair) with Satin Angora. So the rabbits had sheen from the first litter and ever after. 

As French Angora breeder my lovely wife knew that crossing the Satin with the French would have the "problem" of selecting for Satin genes so she went with the short hair cross and selected for wool quality after that. 

Have a good day!
Franco Rios

Pic is a basket of Red Satin Angora babies. Guess how many are really in there.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Great advice on breeding the shine into angora fiber! Maybe sometime, but English aren't supposed to be shiny so mine will probably remain dull rabbits.

Oh so cute, the basket of bunnies! There's at least five in that basket, I can see ten ear tips, anyway. Lovely reds, too! There's not any red in my herd that I can find, so no red nor shiny. Sigh! Your lovely buns have both. They are great looking bunnies!

How much fiber do you get from a Satin angora?


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

We used to get 6 to 8 ounces of fiber from the SA. 

EDITED: I found a note from 2007 stating we were getting 4 to 8 ounces depending on the rabbit and how the molt was going. Longer molt cycles mean longer fiber strands.

There was 5 in the basket.

That photo is from the archives. 

We don't have rabbits anymore but I still have fun talking about them.

Have a good day!


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

Is that 6 to 8 ounces per shearing? How many times would they be sheared each year? The English here get sheared about three times a year with about five to six ounces of fiber each shearing. More or less depending on the rabbit, of course. That's spinnable fiber, there's other fiber that doesn't make it to the scale.

Are Satins sheared or plucked? Some of the English have to be sheared now.

Have you decided which type of bunnies to get yet, MamaRed? How about some of each? There's only four or five types of angoras so if you had a dozen bunnies you'd be able to have a pair of each type.


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

Hi Franco! Are there any satin angora breeders in your area that you would recommend? The satins I have are from Taos and are really beautiful copper, chestnut, chocolate and black. There aren't any breeders in Az that I know of. Sure wish you still raised them but appreciate your very knowledgeable input. Wishing everyone a beautiful and happy Tuesday!


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## Kasota (Nov 25, 2013)

Seriously cute!!!! I count 5, too.


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## hotzcatz (Oct 16, 2007)

There's one hiding in front all that's really visible is ear tips. I think that one is getting ready to eat the roses, but roses are good for bunnies, aren't they?


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## rabbitgeek (Mar 22, 2008)

raccoon breath said:


> Hi Franco! Are there any satin angora breeders in your area that you would recommend? The satins I have are from Taos and are really beautiful copper, chestnut, chocolate and black. There aren't any breeders in Az that I know of. Sure wish you still raised them but appreciate your very knowledgeable input. Wishing everyone a beautiful and happy Tuesday!


Sorry, meant to answer sooner. SA are not in great numbers around here in Central Calif. There's a group up in Washington that has some. I think there are breeders in Nevada. I'll ask around. But you are right, AZ is not full of an angoras. Something about the heat I would guess.

Have a good day!


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## raccoon breath (Aug 5, 2010)

I think it's the heat too. I'm in the northern part that's above 7000 ft elevation, 8 ft annual snowfall, and cool summers. We aren't Big Bear but we aren't typical Arizona  There was a rabbit show here a couple weeks ago. 2 people had angoras. One was my breeder from NM and the other was a French breeder from Tucson. My breeder sold one of her bunnies to a woman there and so then there were three. Yes, if you hear of someone..

Here's some pictures of the biggest city near me about an hour away, Flagstaff.


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