# EMP preps???



## bee (May 12, 2002)

Last night a radio host had a guest on that was pushing his new book(what else??). The book was not just about EMP but the top 10 potential disasters lurking. I caught the part about EMPs. He really got my attenshion when he quoted an "expert" that estimates that a coast to coast complete loss of the electric grid would result in a 70% loss of life in this country. Majorly due to starvation and loss of medical help/medicines. I have known that there would be major losses due to these factors but nearly three quarters of our population??
And darned if they did not discuss and broadcast to any listening bad guys just what they needed to use to get this effect! Not only the host and his guest but call in "experts"(ex-military)too. From boats off shore, to cessnas, to the top of tall buildings in large cities, to ICBMs, to smaller missiles on ships off both coasts and the one that really got me was the mention of a "sweet spot" in our mid-west where just one bomb can fry the entire country!:huh:
Got me thinking(again) about what I can do to get to my mother who lives 20 miles from me thru a fair amount of population trying to find a way to travel on the only connecting road......
I think that the attempt to reach her and get her to my location should be made as soon as I realize that the outage is an EMP...rather than wait until the masses figure it out and get on the move. Don't laugh but I am thinking bicycle powered rickshaw. One day over and one day back. No major hills until one mile from my place(on the return). Hmmm,,,better look into a small engine for this thing. Will EMP take out lawn mowers???


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## AuntKitty (Oct 25, 2004)

From what I've read and what my mower repair guy says I don't think EMP would take out most riding mowers. What about pulling a cart behind a riding mower? You could carry gas in cans in the cart on the way to your Mom's house and rig up a way to strap her stuff & the empty gas cans to the mower and cart frame once she is sitting in the cart. You wouldn't be traveling very fast but if you left as soon as you realized it was EMP, you could probably be well on your way back home by the time everybody else realized what was happening. Have your Mom keep a BOB ready and maybe a siphoning tool in your preps so you could siphon gas from the disabled cars you are passing so you wouldn't even have to carry alot of gas with you.

Great post. Really got me thinking...

Kitty


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Old diesel tractors have few electronic parts



> And darned if they did not discuss and broadcast to any listening bad guys* just what they needed *to use to get this effect!


Yeah...all they need are some huge atomic bombs.
EMP effects are largely *theory*, and chances of it occurring over a large area are pretty slim



> *as soon as I realize *that the outage is an EMP


I think it would be pretty hard to miss the *nuclear explosions *overhead
If it were the result of solar flares, it may not be so obvious


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

From what I read, most likely EMP won't even take out a lot of vehicles unless you happen to be unlucky enough to be quite close to the point of detonation. 

My understanding is EMP would affect the grid, and many things plugged INTO the grid due to the antennae effect of the grid. The grid control systems, and most electronics in service at the time of a hit would likely be fried.

And when the grid goes, yes, I think 70% dieoff is going to be a conservative number, actually. The modern world runs on energy....it grew from under 1 billion folks to close to 7 billion due to cheap, available energy. You take that out of the equation, and we're going back to that ratio.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Yeah...all they need are some huge atomic bombs.
> EMP effects are largely *theory*, and chances of it occurring over a large area are pretty slim


Actually, it can be done with conventional explosives and the right design of the bomb. Popular Science laid it out in an article several years back. Imagine the chaos that would result if a small plane carrying such a device dropped it over the financial district of NY, for example, and POOF !......a few million financial records disappear ! The financial panic that would result would be quite real.

My guess is the US, Russia, and China all have nuke EMP devices already space based that could be deployed rather quickly over each other's country should the need arise. THAT is the really scary part about seeing a space program develop in a country like North Korea, or any of the middle east countries.




Bearfootfarm said:


> I think it would be pretty hard to miss the *nuclear explosions *overhead


Not really.....the max effect of an EMP burst is to pop the bomb off at high altitude. Unless you were fairly close to the point of detonation, AND happened to be outside looking up, you may not even notice it happened....your TV, computer, and lights would simply go off.....just like somebody hit a power pole down the road.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Bearfoot...if the "expert" is right and ONE device in the mid-west will do the trick, I here in WV just might miss the detonation.... and IF all the "experts" are right, instant loss of communications would make getting reliable information impossible. Key is just how long the masses will sit and wait for information/help before they begin to move. Personally I prefer to just hunker down;but I could not live with myself not knowing what happened to my Mother. She will die soon after such a disaster as she is an insulin dependant diabetic, but if I can help it not alone at the "mercy" of desperate people.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

EMP does have a sweet spot...really a big circle...and a coinciding altitude for the effect.

As for vehicles, military testing has shown that the instant overcharge effect will pretty much destroy all chips in the entire area. You may feel it as a slight tingle or raising of the hair on your arms or something like that, but your car computers will be getting the equivalent of the electric chair. Just the way it works.

ATVs even have computers now. Best bet, chipless vehicles. Those will be largely unaffected or only minimally effected where certain types of coatings transfer charge. Easily repaired and you can move along smartly. Bike rickshaw type things are really popular here in high end shops. Modern, stylish and far easier to pedal, they are the new thing for fitness oriented families. Even the 4 person pedaler is selling now with an extra bench seat for non pedalers or room for cargo. Very cute and not a bad idea. They can be very pricey though.


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## uhcrandy (Sep 16, 2010)

older vehicles should be OK.


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

Yup wouldn't harm my tractor, my '54 truck or my '96 enduro bike..

In fact I bet it would affect a lot less the scare experts say, it isn't like the grids don't already have an issue like this with solar flares and such.

It's pretty simple, the electromagnetism would have to be strong enough to induce enough electric current to over volt/current the electronic chip or transistor etc. as it passed. It's not like a magic pop everything wave, a lot of things would survive.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

In 1962, a nuclear test in the Pacific caused a partial blackout in Hawaii. Other than that "accident", we haven't really had a real-world test of EMP effects, so any predictions about what will or won't happen are pretty much just guesses. The military has an EMP test site where they test the hardening(EMP protection) of military equipment, but that's not the same thing as testing a nuclear detonation over the middle of the US.
As others have pointed out, most people affected by an EMP blast probably wouldn't hear or see the detonation, but the blackout would be hard to miss.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> .....Yeah...all they need are some huge atomic bombs.
> EMP effects are largely *theory*, and chances of it occurring over a large area are pretty slim
> I think it would be pretty hard to miss the *nuclear explosions *overhead
> If it were the result of solar flares, it may not be so obvious


Well, some folks have already experimented with mobile EMP gnerators to take out small cities. Just another DoD project that went through a dead end evolutionary branch. Just requires a big battery bank and some hefty capacitors. It wasn't any real rocket science to build it either. I think the prototype fit on the back of a tractor trailor rig.

The "hardening" of military equipment is called "Tempest" hardening if anyone sees that in descriptions of surplus equipment. Faraday cages offer some protection. As do plasma force fields - NASA is playing with those primarily as shielding from cosmic rays.

The rickshaw idea sounds good for transportation. Probably use a mountain bike and wider tires to handle rutted out roads. Could probably lose a few pounds riding that up and down country roads even without an emergency!


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

Any electric start vehicle is going to likely be toast. At my house, that is everything but one old four wheeler. 

My advice? Buy a good mountain bike with one of those folding carts.


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## Zipporah (Jul 30, 2006)

uhcrandy said:


> older vehicles should be OK.


How old ? Mine is 23 years old.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

A recent report (read on survivalblog) gave me some hope, in that a lot of trucks and cars simply kept running (if they were running when the strike hit) and a lot cranked up afterwards. Later, read criticisms saying the emp pulse wasn't what a military strike might equal.

Regardless... your vehicle might keep running... but without fuel to run it, it'll be a short term luxury. Several weeks later, when there's no more fuel, driving around folks that can't might get iffy... read: dangerous.

I think the 70% number is optimistic. I'm thinking closer to 90%.

Anyone interested in EMPs should read "One Second After". I know it's fiction, but it does bring up some good points to consider.

I think the basics would cover EMP concerns. Stored beans, bullets, bandaids, and lots of fuel. Any electronic devices that make life easier should be stored in a faraday cage of some sort.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

One Second After is a great book. Scared the woolies out of me.


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## coalroadcabin (Jun 16, 2004)

uhcrandy said:


> older vehicles should be OK.




Guess we'll keep our old rust buckets then, just in case! I can hear my husband now sayin' ' I told ya so! '


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## TxAprilMagic (Nov 8, 2007)

If all of this EMP comes to light, Horses are going to be very sought after. If you have horses, guard them with your life.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

TxAprilMagic said:


> If all of this EMP comes to light, Horses are going to be very sought after. If you have horses, guard them with your life.


I imagine "old west rules" would make a comeback, very quickly... a necktie party for horse thieves. 

Horses would be pressed from two sides... hungry people insisting on you slaughtering them to feed them, and from those who know their value as transportation.

I can also imagine, the starving golden hordes killing someone for their horse flesh... cow, pig, chicken, long pork flesh...


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

Pouncer said:


> Any electric start vehicle is going to likely be toast. At my house, that is everything but one old four wheeler.
> 
> My advice? Buy a good mountain bike with one of those folding carts.


Not really, EMP might pop a condenser or coil at best if they were already flaky and old, and very doubtfully would do even that in an old point/condenser ignition. worst case replace the coil and condenser and off ya go. Most cars would likely survive as thye do in tests

It would have to be a heck of an EMP to do anything to an electric motor like a car starter. More that the world would see.

Long drawn out wires like electric cords, telephone wires, long antennas etc. pick up the highest voltages from an EMP just they pick up the highest voltages from any radio wave that induces a voltage in them.

Even many radios and such not plugged in would survive.



> We tested a sample of 37 cars in an EMP simulation laboratory, with automobile vin-
> tages ranging from 1986 through 2002. Automobiles of these vintages include extensive
> electronics and represent a significant fraction of automobiles on the road today. The
> testing was conducted by exposing running and nonrunning automobiles to sequentially
> ...


http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf


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