# Goat eating dog food??!



## flarytails (Apr 30, 2011)

Wow! I really am loving this forum so I have another question for all you experienced goaters.
My German shepherd dog lives in the pen with the goats and everyone gets along great... maybe too well. My beloved old goat loves the dog food and gobbles it down before Kyza (the dog) gets a taste she just sits next to her watching happily. :huh: The dog food often has some of Nadeara's milk (the goat) mixed in it and once I mixed some fat in there but she seemed to like that even more??!! Why? :shrug: We are drinking her milk so I work hard at keeping her away but sometimes I think Kyza saves her some on purpose. :doh: She is the goofiest goat in the world but could she be doing it because she needs more protein? And should I avoid her milk on the times she sneaks some?


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

I have not idea, but questions like this are why the Goat forum is my favorite place!

That, and baby pictures!


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Dog food is bad for goats, so do your best to keep your goats out of it. However, goats, cows, horses, etc., LOVE dog food. Why?

Look at the ingredients. Right up near the top, you see "Yellow corn meal", "Corn Gluten Meal", "Corn Gluten", "Barley", "Ground wheat meal", etc. Why shouldn't goats love it, it is made of grain!

Now, why is it bad for goats? Because, further down on the list, you will find, "Processed chicken fat", "Poultry by-product meal", "meat by-products". Animal products, especially fats, but any animal product really, is bad for goats. It will coat their stomachs and inhibit them being able to absorb nutrients. If they get too much, they can starve to death while happily munching a ton of high quality hay and devouring pounds of grain.

Now, back to that dog food. It is bad for your dog.

Yes, it is. Even though it says, right on the bag, "100% nutritionally complete". It is a darn lie. 

It is 100% nutritionally complete because dogs need X amount of protein, and the dog food contains X amount of protein. No matter that nearly 90% of that protein is locked up in the grains _which dogs do not have a long enough digestive tract to properly digest._ The dog is only getting a small amount of that protein that is listed.

Dogs also do not have high amounts of amylase, then enzyme which breaks down starches and utilizes the energy in them. Cats are obligate carnivores, and therefore have NO amylase...which makes you wonder why cat foods have all that rice, right?

At any rate, your goat is eating your dog's food, which is bad for it, because you are buying badly made dog food that contains mainly grains, which is bad for your dog. 

Consider going to a higher end dog food that is PROPERLY made for dogs. One of them is Innova Evo. Yes, it is expensive, but not THAT much more expensive than Science Diet. And eventually, your dog will eat less of it that regular dog food.

Kinda like goats when you first give them free-choice alfalfa pellets. The first week or so, they scarf it down like they are starving to death (maybe they are), then, after that, they realize that it is not going away and ease up, until finally, they will even turn their noses up at it at times.

The same holds true of GOOD dog food and dogs.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I think all goats love dog food. It seems to be one of their favorite things. Fortunately, the dogs usually learn to tell them "NO" about stealing their food. Hopefully yours will too. Most people get around the issue by simply taking the dogs out of the pen a couple times a day for feed time, then putting them back in after feeding.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The other issue is that goats/cattle/herbivores are not supposed to eat meat and meat by-products. That is how Mad Cow Disease was transmitted.


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## KnowOneSpecial (Sep 12, 2010)

In the late 80's when farms were being repo'ed left and right we took in a pet goat for a lady whose trailer was being repo'ed. She kept the pygmy goat as a pet in the trailer. 

We put him on the farm and that darn thing could get out of a concrete cell! We finally gave up on keeping him in and let him roam the farm. He tood to hangin' with the dogs, even down to sleeping on the porch with them. Anyone who drove up would hear "WOOF WOOF BAA!". It's like he was a dog born in a goat body! 

When it came to feed the dog would eat the goat chow and the goat would eat the dog chow. After a while you realize that you can't teach an old goatt new tricks.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

> Dog food is bad for goats,


And usually bad for dogs too! If it was what a dog should eat, a goat wouldn't want it.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

southerngurl said:


> If it was what a dog should eat, a goat wouldn't want it.


Now that is true. If it wasn't mainly corn, the goat would turn it down.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The other issue is that goats/cattle/herbivores are not supposed to eat meat and meat by-products. That is how Mad Cow Disease was transmitted.


In fact it is illegal to feed a ruminant to another ruminant.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

Phoenyx, the goat in my avatar, will bust out of the stall when I'm taking in their grain to run to the barn cats' food dish and scarf down as much of it as she can! She also will get out of the pasture and come to the back door and steal the dog's food. :grumble: I have to put things up out of her reach but then the dog can't reach his food. 

I did know a lamb that thought it was a cat and would eat salmon out of the tin.


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## LoneStrChic23 (Jul 30, 2010)

It may be a hassle, but I would feed the dog outside of the goat pen.

The risk to the goats is too high to do anything else.

As far as dog food..... I'm a RAW feeder, so I'm not a fan of dog food, but if you must feed kibble brands like Innova Evo or Taste of the Wild (sold at TSC) are best. They are more expensive, but the dog eats less of it as it has less waste & by products. For a lower budget, decent kibble, Diamond Naturals are okay....they are corn free and fair priced.


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## flarytails (Apr 30, 2011)

I believe in feeding raw dog food too but its become too much trouble so I give the dog a corn free kibble that has meat as the main 2 ingredients (which probably makes it way worse for the goat) and I usually mix in some of the goats milk to supplement, a few days a week I offer meat or organs from the last animal we butchered (I'm glad the goat doesn't eat that!)
I have been tying Nadeara out to graze behind the pen before I feed Kyza since the other goats leave her food alone but Kyza seems to save her some food so if I forget to put it up before bringing Nadeara back then she runs right for the kibbles and inhales it.
Kyza wont eat outside the pen she only wants to play and explore.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

flarytails, are the first two ingredients meat, or meat meals?

If it just lists a meat, like it says "chicken" or "duck", and you are feeding a dry kibble, then that ingredient belongs MUCH further down on the list. The ingredients are listed by weigh _before dehydration._ Once you take the water out, meat weighs FAR less than the corn or oats that was third or fourth on the list.

The same holds true for vegetables. Lots of dog and cat foods list "potatoes" up near the top of the list. Think about how much a potato weighs and how much potato FLAKES, that would reconstitute into an equal amount, weigh. If you are calculating ONLY dry weight, AFTER dehydration, those potatoes would belong further down on the list also.

Finding a decent dog and cat food is difficult. It is actually MORE difficult to find a decent cat food, even though cats tolerate grains and veggies far less than dogs. The only meat-based, reasonably priced cat food I have found is 9-lives canned. Yeah, mainly beaks and feet, but at least it is animal origin.


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## flarytails (Apr 30, 2011)

CaliannG said:


> If it just lists a meat, like it says "chicken" or "duck", and you are feeding a dry kibble, then that ingredient belongs MUCH further down on the list. The ingredients are listed by weigh _before dehydration._ Once you take the water out, meat weighs FAR less than the corn or oats that was third or fourth on the list.


I never thought about that. So would it be better to have be a meal like lamb meal? I'll have to check and see what it says next time I buy it but I already dumped the kibbles into the storage container that I feed her from and threw away the bag. oops

Its so expensive already that I may be able to switch to the suggested brands without any price difference. I'm gona look into it.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

Yes, a meal if ,it has a specific name (like lamb, rather than "meat by products"), has a higher end weight and nutritional value than the cuts.

Realize that unless it states "dried", fruits and veggies follow the same rule.

For comparison, though, you might want to consider just going raw. Science Diet Mature Large Breed is $43 for a 35lb bag at PetCo, and that is one of the WORST dog foods out there. That comes to $1.23 a lb for what is basically corn floor sweepings. 

I can often find chicken, hamburger, stew meat, stuff like that, on sale or on manager's special, at a *grocery store* for around that price per pound. Also, check with local butchers and meat packagers...often they will sell you organ meats (which are best for dogs and cats) and other trimmings for less than a $1 a pound. 

A dog that eats a lb of dry kibble will only need to eat 1/3 lb of meat to receive FAR better nutrition.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

CaliannG said:


> Yes, a meal if ,it has a specific name (like lamb, rather than "meat by products"), has a higher end weight and nutritional value than the cuts.
> 
> Realize that unless it states "dried", fruits and veggies follow the same rule.
> 
> ...


I buy the 10 lb bags of chicken quarters when I'm feeding raw. They are about $0.70 per pound. I start to get lazy after a while and go back to Flint River Ranch dog food. Then I start to get cheap and go back to the chicken, then I get lazy etc. :hysterical:

I feed my cats Evo canned cat food. I saw a cat die from the end game of all those carbs in cat food- even high quality cat food so I won't feed it anymore except short time for convenience, like for someone to feed while I'm out of town etc.


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## CaliannG (Apr 29, 2005)

southerngurl said:


> I feed my cats Evo canned cat food. I saw a cat die from the end game of all those carbs in cat food- even high quality cat food so I won't feed it anymore except short time for convenience, like for someone to feed while I'm out of town etc.


My cats get variety:

SOME Innova Evo, but the stuff is pricey, yanno?
SOME yellow tuna. Funny, but the CHEAP tuna is also the kind that doesn't have the high mercury, so it is safe for cats.
SOME 9-Lives canned. Yeah, it is the "Hamburger Helper" or "Fish Sticks" of the cat food world, but at least it is meat.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

I get my evo from doggiefood.com and it's not bad for what you are getting. I get the large cans by the case. One can feeds all 4 of our cats. If I would get a good grinder I could feed them chicken, I get sick of cutting that stuff up and the mess they make. My dogs also get the occasional road kill deer.


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## flarytails (Apr 30, 2011)

Did I mention that this goat also gobbles up eggs, shell and all, if the chickens lay them in her reach? She greedily shoves the whole thing in her mouth and chomps it down!  :yuck:
I'm going to try the Innova evo but I am curious to see if she will leave it alone with her strange tastes.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

CaliannG said:


> Now, back to that dog food. It is bad for your dog.
> 
> Yes, it is. Even though it says, right on the bag, "100% nutritionally complete". It is a darn lie.
> 
> ...



I agree with calli...I use Avoderm....for my LGD's...and for further info try this website...I never knew I didnt know about dog food till I went here......it explains a lot!!

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/


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## Ficknuckle (Mar 12, 2020)

I grew up on a family farm in Missouri, which had 25-30 head of goats and we feed them almost nothing but Ol' Roy Dog Food from Wal-Mart mixed with some milk, either Goat or Cow milk it doesn't matter which, Been doing that since 1981 when Ol Roy first came never had a problem. The reason Ol' Roy is o.k. is that is 99.99% grain and is basically sprayed with a animal fat on the assembly line to give it flavor, plus it's cheap but we don't feed any other brand. I don't REALLY remember what we fed them before this as I was 8 or 9 when we started this but it's been 40ish years roughly and we have never had a problem, Idk if I would even try to feed them any other brand though but I do know Ol'Roy works well as We have done it for 40ish years, plus our vet tells everyone who is getting into goats to do this because he himself has seen the hundreds of goats we have had live off it for 40ish years with no problems.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Old Roy huh? I tried feeding that to my old Collie and he just stood over the bowl and stared at me.
I gave some to our two 5 month old pups and they ate it like it was raw meat. Go figure.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I was visiting with the owner of the local saw mill/lumber yard up the road and he has a goat problem. Maybe moreso a daughter problem.
His daughter went on disability from a job related accident (can't hardly walk now) and moved into one of his farm houses.
She adopted 4 goats as a rescue project. Well, she didn't have the heart to sell or give them away and they became pets to her.
Within just about a year, she adopted more, many had babies and she found her self raising about 40 goats; billies, wethers and nannies all together...
Her dad's place had about 100 acres, but he gave her only 2 acres fenced in for her "pets". So 40 goats in a 2 acre parcel that now looks like a feed lot.

Already knowing the answer, I asked him "Is she having any problems with her goats and worms?"
Rolling his eyes he said "Every month she is down at the CO OP for more wormer. They know her and usually have a batch waiting. It is awful!"
He was paying for the hay, the feed, the meds, the debudding and hoof trimming, etc. I said was.
He finally had a come to Jesus sit down with her one morning and forced her to agree to sell off all but two goats.
She kept 5 again. That was last spring. 
She is now back up to 35...
Since she has to cover the costs now out of her own pocket, (Pop says he is done) she is buying pallets of dog food.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> I was visiting with the owner of the local saw mill/lumber yard up the road and he has a goat problem. Maybe moreso a daughter problem.
> His daughter went on disability from a job related accident (can't hardly walk now) and moved into one of his farm houses.
> She adopted 4 goats as a rescue project. Well, she didn't have the heart to sell or give them away and they became pets to her.
> Within just about a year, she adopted more, many had babies and she found her self raising about 40 goats; billies, wethers and nannies all together...
> ...


Kind of sounds like she has a mental health issue.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

She was a long time assistant to a neurosurgeon when she was hurt. Doing some tests on an obese patient who fell off the table and onto her. She never wanted to be as countrified as her parents and siblings so she rarely came back.
Now, I don't know. It has been a transformation from who she was, according to her dad, so she may well have something going on and off in her head.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Very sad. For the goats too.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Our Suffolk sheep had a huge taste for dry cat food. Which is mostly meat. 
If we forgot and left cat food on the porch we’d have a herd of huge Suffolk ewes thundering into it to get the cat kibble.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Old Roy is about $20 or so for 50lbs bags. 
Rural King or the Co-Op will set out their 50lb bags of goat feed for $12-$15.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> Old Roy is about $20 or so for 50lbs bags.
> Rural King or the Co-Op will set out their 50lb bags of goat feed for $12-$15.


I don’t think it’s really 99.99 percent grain either or it wouldn’t be AAFCO certified.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> I don’t think it’s really 99.99 percent grain either or it wouldn’t be AAFCO certified.





> The main ingredients in Ol’ Roy Dog Food are: Corn. Meat and bone meal. Chicken by-product. Soybean meal. Animal fat. Corn gluten.


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## Ficknuckle (Mar 12, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> Old Roy huh? I tried feeding that to my old Collie and he just stood over the bowl and stared at me.
> I gave some to our two 5 month old pups and they ate it like it was raw meat. Go figure.


 Yeah, it's crap for dogs but it's GREAT for Goats.


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## Ficknuckle (Mar 12, 2020)

So then explain to me how it's worked for 40 years with no problems? it also corn meal and rice, which are both grains......


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ficknuckle said:


> So then explain to me how it's worked for 40 years with no problems?


Why would anything need to be explained?
It won't change the ingredient list that shows it's roughly 20-25% meat protein and 10% animal fat.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

`Deer will eat dog food. Not a surprise goats will.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HermitJohn said:


> Deer will eat dog food. Not a surprise goats will.


Animals will eat lots of things if it's all they have.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Kids too.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Goat eating dog food


That title makes me think of:
"member banning Spambots"


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