# Foxtail a'plenty



## SunshineRanch (Nov 13, 2015)

We have a 100 or so acres up in the Sierra foothills of central California (near Yosemite). We get decent rain for 6 months or so of the year in winter, 0 rain for about 3 months of the year during the high heat of summer and a little here and there for the other 3 months. Winters are mild but do drop below freezing at times. Summers are HOT (100+ degrees for a few months).
It's beautiful here but the Foxtail is everywhere and is a real problem. We have only been here for a year or so and pigs came in just a while back. I'm a big proponent of rotating paddocks and am actively trying to convert my paddock to better pasture. The pigs do a GREAT job of rooting up the ground to a depth of several inches, especially if we can get the ground damp for them outside of their wallows. Those Foxtail though are nasty. We have pulled them out of the pigs eyes before. They tend to bury themselves deep and continue to work their way into the skin. They are tough on the dogs as well. 
I have some ideas on how to get rid of them relatively quickly but I am looking for suggestions from others who might have dealt with them in the past. No Round-up and they have already grown to full size and have browned out so I'm not sure Round-up would have any effect until they start growing again.
I have dry pasture seed, clover and brassica going in where its been cleared.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

I had to look it up, never dealt with it. It looks like a survivor needing hard mechanical/physical attention or herbicide. 

Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. You can spend a lot of time, effort and lost production by not grabbing the bull by the horns and getting it over with. On occasion you need to bend your principles a little just to get them back on track in a larger picture. Good forward vision takes pragmatism. Tough business.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

I suppose fire is not an option? That would eliminate a lot of the seeds and prevent future growth.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

Another option might be to cut it and harvest it before the seeds drop. That would reduce the number of seeds left to sprout next year and if you did it for several years I would think that would greatly reduce it.


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## gerold (Jul 18, 2011)

Dig the plant up when soil is wet. Use vinegar or urine to kill it going organic. Cover the area where the plant was with black print newspaper and mulch with wheat straw or other mulch. Replant with thick grass.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Vinegar works ok on a hot day with broadleafs in my limited experiments. It wouldn't phase my grasses. It probably needed a surfactant but I have no idea what one could use. I don't know what acetic acid and UAM or AS would do. Crop oil wouldn't work in my thinking. Maybe a detergent would.

You need actively growing plants for Roundup. I'd check with the local extension service to get area specific information.


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## SunshineRanch (Nov 13, 2015)

fishhead said:


> I suppose fire is not an option? That would eliminate a lot of the seeds and prevent future growth.


So controlled burning is one of the thoughts I had because the foxtail is currently at the end of its cycle, has full seed heads and is dry. RoundUp won't do anything to it right now and even if it did, I'm not a fan of it. 
We have very hilly terrain so discing everything isn't really an option and there is far too much to selectively pull or use vinegar. Both of those are options after we do major work. 
The paddocks where I had the pigs and where they completely tore it up are now coming back green with (most likely) more foxtail, which I can now choose to kill, disc or graze it down before it goes to seed. Not sure how much the livestock will find the green foxtail palatable. 
I had high hope of getting a burn permit, sectioning off small areas and with a handful of people, hoses, shovels and buckets of water (in addition to burn breaks) taking down 20' x 20' sections at a time. Once the next round of Green popped up, let the pigs root it up again and then mob seed in my dry pasture seed mix. 
I'm curious if the fire will even break the cycle of the seeds if I can get a burn permit. Anyone have experience with this or am I the Guinea pig?


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## SunshineRanch (Nov 13, 2015)

krackin said:


> Vinegar works ok on a hot day with broadleafs in my limited experiments. It wouldn't phase my grasses. It probably needed a surfactant but I have no idea what one could use. I don't know what acetic acid and UAM or AS would do. Crop oil wouldn't work in my thinking. Maybe a detergent would.
> 
> You need actively growing plants for Roundup. I'd check with the local extension service to get area specific information.


I think once I have better control of the foxtail, I can use the pull or vinegar method at the micro level but there is so much right now that I need to be thinking on a macro lever.


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## SunshineRanch (Nov 13, 2015)

fishhead said:


> Another option might be to cut it and harvest it before the seeds drop. That would reduce the number of seeds left to sprout next year and if you did it for several years I would think that would greatly reduce it.


Yes, the existing dry seed and what's already in the ground is killing me. I wasn't prepared this year when it shot up and I have a lot of acres of fully mature Foxtail now. Had I beat it to seed I could have put a hurt on it this year. 
I'm also wondering if anyone has suggestions on a healthy pasture plant that will out-compete it, if any.


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## sang (Aug 23, 2013)

Mow it or bush hog it right before seeds form, keep doing it until populations are reduced, also disc in seed that will do well in your area.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Buckwheat is pretty aggressive and frost killed. BUT, you need to do research on buckwheat and hogs, too much for me to try to remember and put here. Winter rye is also quite aggressive and mixed with peas and hairy vetch are good soil builders. That is here. Quack grass pretty much rules it domain but is horrid in crop areas, not as bad as that foxtail looks though. Pigs here like portulaca and that can suck shallow soil water up pretty quickly. 

Poultry won't eat the seeds?


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

I live down in slo county and they are bad I usually spray around the buildings and brush hog this year with the drought I didn't because they make good feed for the sheep before they head out. After the 3rd trip to the vet is was good by to about a acre of feed my place is covered with wild oats and fox tails the oats are the worse but the foxtails come back after you mow .
My plan next year is to fence the sheep tighter to the backyard in the spring so they will hopefully keep under control where the dog spend most of the time.


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

SunshineRanch said:


> Yes, the existing dry seed and what's already in the ground is killing me. I wasn't prepared this year when it shot up and I have a lot of acres of fully mature Foxtail now. Had I beat it to seed I could have put a hurt on it this year.
> I'm also wondering if anyone has suggestions on a healthy pasture plant that will out-compete it, if any.


Foxtails will be reduced by discing after it comes up . I planted one of my fields with a dry land pasture mix and got very few foxtails but still got the wild oats .

Foxtails are a type of wild rye grass I believe it would be ideal for the dam stickers:grit:


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## SunshineRanch (Nov 13, 2015)

krackin said:


> Buckwheat is pretty aggressive and frost killed. BUT, you need to do research on buckwheat and hogs, too much for me to try to remember and put here. Winter rye is also quite aggressive and mixed with peas and hairy vetch are good soil builders. That is here. Quack grass pretty much rules it domain but is horrid in crop areas, not as bad as that foxtail looks though. Pigs here like portulaca and that can suck shallow soil water up pretty quickly.
> 
> Poultry won't eat the seeds?


Unfortunately, the chickens will knock down the foxtail but they don't eat the seed from what I can observe. Those seeds can do real damage to animals of all type so I would be curious if there is something out there that eats it once it's gone to seed.


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## Solar Geek (Mar 14, 2014)

We had foxtail all over our 10 acres. I gave up after 3 years of fighting it with rototilling (large), tried Roundup (no it did not work) even tho we are an organic farmette.

We finally gave in on 7500 ft sq for our garden, *cut it as short as we could, brought in 14 of the largest bales of straw and spread that 35-40" deep. Then we had a landscaper bring in compost, set up 39 vegetable beds of 5'x10' and then waited a year to plant. No foxtail there now, just other weeds . * Basically we smothered it and composted it with our system.

Foxtail is ubiquitous and we still have to mow our prairie area (7 acres) every other year completely to allow the wild flowers and natural grasses to have a chance. 

My DH pulled by hand at least 4400 sq. ft. over the years. 
It has now been 4 years and we are slowly becoming foxtail free. 

We were told that burning it would not guarantee success as seeds were below the soil surface also and would live. 

Hope this helps.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

You bet that heavy mulch will do great. Glyphosate will work fine, but in Zone 9, I assume it does not have a strong dormant period like it does up here. If you spray it in the fall as it is pulling nutrients to its roots to survive winter, you can wipe it out with one single application, like any other perennial plant. Spraying at other times is mainly futile, as the roots are not nearly so affected.

Tillage will work, but it needs to be persistent to starve the plants. Foxtail especially likes saline soils. So if you do get rid of it, make sure to soil test and plan grass species according to the salt content of the soil. Some grasses out there thrive, many do not. So along with the weed issue, you may have a soil salinity issue.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

There are pre-emergent herbicides that may work if you have to go that route. Maybe a double team of that line with glyphosate would work on areas you don't need to use right off. Given time you can work back to a pesticide free pasture. I'm not a great fan of pesticides but sometimes some areas need work. Fence lines for me. 

Mechanical work/tillage will take out about anything if you can be on top of it all the time. Maybe a few acres of that with all the above will get you on a schedule down the road a little. Integrated pest management works best for me.


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## fishhead (Jul 19, 2006)

SunshineRanch said:


> So controlled burning is one of the thoughts I had because the foxtail is currently at the end of its cycle, has full seed heads and is dry. RoundUp won't do anything to it right now and even if it did, I'm not a fan of it.
> We have very hilly terrain so discing everything isn't really an option and there is far too much to selectively pull or use vinegar. Both of those are options after we do major work.
> The paddocks where I had the pigs and where they completely tore it up are now coming back green with (most likely) more foxtail, which I can now choose to kill, disc or graze it down before it goes to seed. Not sure how much the livestock will find the green foxtail palatable.
> I had high hope of getting a burn permit, sectioning off small areas and with a handful of people, hoses, shovels and buckets of water (in addition to burn breaks) taking down 20' x 20' sections at a time. Once the next round of Green popped up, let the pigs root it up again and then mob seed in my dry pasture seed mix.
> I'm curious if the fire will even break the cycle of the seeds if I can get a burn permit. Anyone have experience with this or am I the Guinea pig?


I wonder if you couldn't get the local fire department to help burn in exchange for some real life practice. A donation might help too.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

If you need to do smaller sections asap use a back pack flame weeder. I have two of them and they work well. The big problem is they can't be used in dry weather without due care. I used them a lot in my commercial organic strawberry plantings in the spring for weed control. I could do an acre in a few hours myself. Mine work off tank pressure, no regulator for around 400,000 BTU or so. They work rain or shine. All you do is touch the weeds with the flame and they are done. No need to burn them. I used 20# tanks and would have to swap them out as they will freeze up. I haven't used them in years, not doing strawberries now, forgot all about them.


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)




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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Common dish soap makes a good surficant.


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## SunshineRanch (Nov 13, 2015)

highlands said:


> Common dish soap makes a good surficant.


That's a trick my grandpa taught me when I was young. Also a nice mixture of tobacco water will kill aphids on contact (especially good with some dish soap). That man won awards for his work with soil in Washington state and was a farmer of extraordinary talent, knowledge and compassion for his fellow farmer. I was too young to know what a resource he was and I can't imagine the advice he would give me now.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

mustangglp said:


>


Makes one wonder why another would live there then.


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## mustangglp (Jul 7, 2015)

Starting wounder my self with all our drought and laws.


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## SunshineRanch (Nov 13, 2015)

Here is a picture of my foxtail just to make sure we are all talking about the same thing.


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## krackin (Nov 2, 2014)

Mean bunch o' grass.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

SunshineRanch said:


> Here is a picture of my foxtail just to make sure we are all talking about the same thing.


That is not the foxtail I was talking about. That is what we here call wild oats. Very different control strategies.


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## Solar Geek (Mar 14, 2014)

farmerDale said:


> That is not the foxtail I was talking about. That is what we here call wild oats. Very different control strategies.


Not my foxtail either. We also call those wild oats.


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## pmondo (Oct 6, 2007)

this is foxtail


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## woodsman14 (Oct 6, 2014)

pmondo said:


> this is foxtail


Yep...


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## SunshineRanch (Nov 13, 2015)

What we have is definitely foxtail and is dangerous to animals. I think we just have a different type than what you are experiencing. These have a hard end, get stuck in everything and can burrow under the skin. I had to pull one out of one of my pigs eyes earlier this year.


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