# Red Cell



## dm9960 (Nov 26, 2009)

When you give red cell, how often do you give it? and for how long?


----------



## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

If I'm just using it for a goat that is "off" or sick, but not anemic, then I give 12 cc's twice a day for an adult goat, or 6 cc's twice a day for a young goat. If I am treating anemia from worm load, I can give upwards of 30-35 cc's per day for adults. I've never actually treated anemia in kids, but I would probably give 20-25 cc's per day for that.
I give it at those dosages until the goat looks much better, then I drop it back to the 12 ccs a day until they are 100%.
I use Red Cell anywhere someone else might use Nutri-Drench. In my experience its much more effective.
Hope this helps!


----------



## dm9960 (Nov 26, 2009)

thanks, that helps alot. I have a buckling that is anemic from wormload, I wormed him with cydectin, gave him a shot of B complex, 5cc, red cell 6cc, penicillin, his temp is 100.6 
He is about 40 pounds, a pygmy.

I had made the mistake of listening to my vet about 2 boer goats with the same problems, but they both died. He had said ivermectin and safeguard and they should be fine, and not to do anything else, to give the wormers time to do their thing.


----------



## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm so sorry


----------



## dm9960 (Nov 26, 2009)

how often should I do the b complex as well? the pen? I don't want to lose this little guy, too


----------



## JR05 (Jan 1, 2005)

I recently had the same problems as you are having. Chemical wormers are not working. I lost one doe and almost lost 2 more and a kid. My vet said to use cydectin then give safeguard for 5 days then cydectin again. That is when we lost the one doe. Then we gave strongid to the other 2 and I started the herbal wormer from hoeggers with the rest of herd. Vet took blood work and it showed extreme anemia in both. Instructed to give 2 oz. red cell, 10 cc thymine and 1 oz of power punch and all the alfafa hay they would eat. We also kept the two confined to a stall with the rest of the herd locked out of the barn for the next 21 days.( trying to break the worm cycles). Apparently this has worked, the girls are starting to put weight back on and going out and grazing with the rest of herd. Everyone is looking a lot better very slick and poop is better. This week we will take another fecal and blood work to see if we have concured the problem. We also have totally cleaned the barn and sprayed it down with mineral oil to kill the worm eggs that may be in the barn. I know it sounds strange but it was explained to me that they hope it will smoother the the eggs by coating them with the oil which is not harmful to the goats. Hope your boy doing better.


----------



## dm9960 (Nov 26, 2009)

We lost the boy last night.


----------



## ACountryMomma (Aug 10, 2008)

I am so sorry! I lost a little doe just over a week ago from the same thing. 

I rotate dewormers annually but she had only been with us for a few months and I was using Ivomec. We did exactly what you did when we found she was anemic cydectin, b complex with thiamine, electrolytes in her water, red cell and supplemented her feed with calf manna. She seemed to improve for three days then crashed. 

I keep tearing up when I think about my pretty little girl. I sure do feel bad for what you've gone through. It's heartbreaking.


----------



## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh shoot Dm  you are going through a rough time and I'm so sorry  I wish I could help...sending you big hugs.


----------



## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

I am SO sorry!! I really battled to get my herd healthy when I first got them. The only way I got mine thru it was to give them bactrin(sp) twice a day for 5 days. My vet could not believe that my doe was alive with the amount of cocci in her.

Cocci is such a killer. If I can help let me know.


----------



## dm9960 (Nov 26, 2009)

what's bactrin? and how do I get it?


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I am so sorry to hear about your loss dm.

Many years ago, when I used vets, I lost goats too. Since I stopped using vets to diagnose my herd problems, we have not lost one goat.

The major thing I worry about when there is an overload of worms and wormers are given at such strengths is the rumen. During those times I constantly feed the goat in trouble Probias Paste in attempts to counter what the wormers are doing. (Hoping this information will be useful.)


----------



## Tallabred (May 23, 2008)

Bactrin or Bactrim is a tablet antibiotic/sulfur. It is also what humans take for mersa. You will get it from your vet. It is a pill that you give 1 pill per 100 lbs. I just put it in a syringe and suck up water - it dissolves very easily. The pills are also very easy to break apart for lower dosages.

I keep a big bottle of it on hand. Just sent you a PM


----------



## saanengirl (Apr 7, 2009)

I have a doe who is borderline anemic, even without a parasite load. This is her normal physiological state. I started her off on red cell daily at a dose of 1 cc per 20 lbs for the first week, then went to every other day, now I give it twice a week. Too much iron supplementation can interfere with calcium metabolism, so it is important not to give it every day after the first week.


----------



## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

dm9960, I am so sorry for your loss! Sending many Big Hugs & hope it gets easier on you. We all know you were doing everything you were told. Such a Bummer to still loose them. My heart breaks for you!


----------



## dm9960 (Nov 26, 2009)

I was talking to the vets receptionist today, she said so many problems in this area here lately. The wormers aren't working like they used to. She said the large goat farmers are doubling doses in the hopes of dealing with it. I sure hope we figure it out soon. I don't want to lose anyone else. 
I have a couple more kids that are close to white eyelids, should i do red cell right away?


----------



## Tenn_Farmer (Jul 14, 2006)

Where do you get red cell?


----------



## dm9960 (Nov 26, 2009)

I got it at Tractor Supply, it's a horse supplement


----------



## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Chemical wormers are not working. 
...................

Why?

Are you rotating wormers because it's horse information?
Are you injecting, or pouring on wormers when we know that orally is the only route that doesn't breed resistance?
Are you using Cydectin when you have liverflukes and not barberpole worms? There is a rash of deaths around from liverflukes, all the same symptoms of barberpole worms but without bottle jaw. Use Ivermectin Plus?
Have you not learned to fecal yet? Famacha is a tool, but by the time you are worming when an animal is anemic you are worming at salvage.
What defficencies do you have in your herd and what are you doing about it? Copper? Selenium? Calcium? Magnesium?
Are you using herbal wormers? DE?

When a doe is nutritionally stressed worms know this, they multiply quickly and suck blood. When a doe kids, her hormones trigger worms to multiply quickly and suck blood. When a doe is ill for any reason worms multiply quickly and suck blood.

Leraning to fecal sample is easy, it's cheap, certainly less even if you took a private lesson at your local univeristy, than the cost of one lost kid.

At what point do you stop guessing and wasteing money on what someone on the internet says, and go for it, learn to fecal, get on top of the management on your farm rather than being on the treatment ride...it's so expensive and emotionally exhausting. Use prevention.

My herd was wormed with Cydectin in Feb and March as the does kidded...except kids who I worm on prevention until weaned and then start fecal sampling, other than a buck who left this month to outside breed another herd, not one of my goats has been wormed, in worm heaven, the gulf coats, since then. The goats are copper bolused, older does get selenium injected monthly, I use an excellent mineral that isn't all copper sulfate and I don't have to listen to anyone, I know what wormers work, I know what worms I have.....how refreshing would that be to you to be able to state that for your herd. Imagine, my over the top management that everyone talk about....yet I use less drugs than most of you. If I can do it north of Houston, anyone can.

And for the original poster, Red Cell is fluff, most is simply degraded in the rumen, time, groceries and nursing is going to build red blood cells, which mean during this time she doesn't milk for beans, is lethargic and if she won't graze will loose weight, and can't be bred...why focusing on prevention is key. If you prevent reasons for anemia you have won the battle.


----------



## ozark_jewels (Oct 7, 2005)

I agree 100% with Vicki, until she gets to Red Cell being "fluff".:cowboy: I've used it enough as a pick-me-up for ailing goats, to see that it does do them good. It may be "fluff" but it can be very useful fluff.
As for using it for an anemic or "off" goat without finding out why the goat is anemic or "off"? Yes, then it is just fluff. It is a tool to help them get back from the place they are. The goal is to never let them get to that place to start with. If we do, then we best find out where we went wrong, and fix it.


----------



## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Vicki is right on! .. as usual ..

Knowing your own herd is the key to healthy maintenance of that herd. Knowing the deficiencies in your soil/vegetations they eat is also just as important. (Some areas have so much iron in the ground water that the grass they eat could even be a detriment. It is an easy thing to hand a clump of grass to your agricultural agent and discover how much iron is in it...not to mention the nutrition value. Giving that herd Red Cell would not be what I would do in such a situation.) The same holds true with selenium!

It does not surprise me that chemicals used for worming animals are being viewed as not working! As Vicki stated above, rotating wormers and doing your own vecal testing would be more helpful than just adding another wormer to the long list used already.


----------

