# Where do we go from here? (thread from 2008) post 42 new



## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

As a homesteader and a survivalist, I feel I am prepared to handle most anything the world can throw at me. Natural disaster? Check. Depression? Check. Governmental collapse? Check. Famine? Check. Even a nuclear holocaust or zombie apocalypse? Um, check.

What I cannot survive is the last encounter with the Secret Revolution, where power-mad politicians turn our government into a totalitarian regime. In this Brave New World, people like me are the first ones they come after. I'm independent, self-sufficient, educated, and I have a voice. Oh yeah, I'm a huge danger to their society. All of us like-minded folks are.

So when the screw makes its final turn and our government has gone too far, I'm not likely to become a counter-revolutionary guerilla fighter, hiding in the hills and sniping at Federal troops. I have a family to worry about. Those sorts of things are done by people who have nothing to lose. I am far more likely to flee the country. But where do I go?

Europe is far too liberal for my taste. They're further along in the gun-grabbing socialistic turn than we are. Other countries like China and Russia still haven't truly emerged from their own Communist regimes. Africa, and all of its little subdivided nations, is far too chaotic. I don't want to worry about tribal groups of disenfranchised people whipped into a fervor by some local demagogue and sent to my remote farm with machetes. Australia and New Zealand, while I love the idea of being in a remote wilderness far from civilization, have even more crazy laws than what's currently here in the United States. 

America was originally the place where freedom-loving peoples escaped to. If it falls, where is left for us to go?


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I don't think there is any place. We are left with only 3 choices: flee to another country; stand and fight/loss of life; or give into the new regime.

Personally, I don't know any country who will take us, nor any I think I'd care to go to anyway. 

Give into the new regime? To me that would not even be living.

Stand and fight and loose my life? Although I'm no where near being terribly brave, that will probably be what we would do. We're all going to die someday anyway, so to go out, defending our Constitution and our freedom, has a whole lot more going for it than death by cancer, heart attack, or old age. :baby04:


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## Momwannabe (Dec 10, 2007)

If America falls, the world falls with it. Stand and fight. Freedom isn't free. Most of us have enjoyed a mostly free ride to this point, maybe it is time to pay the piper.


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## Henry (Mar 1, 2006)

Since i live in BC this thread doesn't really apply to my situation but i have a few thoughts. The feeling of powerlessness that the current political structure is overwhelming you with can be counter in many ways. I am not interested in the violent conflict that might or might not come about. Its an item for prep [both hardware and information} then let it go for your peace of mind. What I think would be constructive for someone torn with doubt about the future is to get ready for it. Most here are on or starting a program of prepping. Channel your thoughts toward this road. It will put you into position to make sound decisions in the future. If you think you are prepped than I submit you do not feel happy with your level and should stride for a more complete and possible larger prep system. I think diving in with all your energy to expand your situation will empower and enlighten you. The daily ideas here to protect oneself from shtf is but a small part of what one has to do to make their own situation safe. You only know if your home is truly protected and you need to find out what you need to do to make it so. It goes back to the simple thought that if you are working and learning with total commitment toward a goal you will feel fulfilled.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Henry, I agree with you to a point; however, I see Ernie's post as a scenario of something we cannot possibly be prepared for. No one can ever really be prepared to go to war. In this situation, it would mean we all fight...men, women, children, the sick, the elderly; all of us.

Ernie is speaking about alternatives to that, but I don't see how there could be any. So how do you prepare for war against an enemy that _could_ be you're own American brother or sister? 

Who of us could stand against a regime who comes to our home? Remember Waco and Ruby Ridge? The problem is, there is no way. The only way will be to prepare your family for death. It's kind of the ultimate prep plan! :Bawling:


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## Henry (Mar 1, 2006)

In our mindset we have prepped for every possible situation that we can see as a possibility. We do not live on the coast so a tsunami is not a threat etc. I will just say that if you worry to much about the improbable possibilities than you are doing a disservice to yourself and your family. Depression can come about though the acceptance that you have no possibility of a future much less a happy future. People do survive and even flourish in desperate situations. I am just trying to state my hope that someone will not became despondent over something that does not exist.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2008)

Momwannabe said:


> If America falls, the world falls with it.


Highly doubtful. We're hardly the power we once were.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I think if we fall, there won't be a lot of sniffling and boo-hooing out there in the world. Consolidated Europe will rise to take our place, and the Chinese will be right there with them.

This is nothing more than rainy Sunday afternoon speculation, Henry. It's a playing forward of the what-if in my mind as I go through the week's news. Don't worry about me worrying. 

As for fighting, I won't become a partisan while I have young children who are dependent upon me. However, I do wonder about going underground ... disconnecting the blogs, the forum postings, and keeping my mouth shut when I'm out and about in the world. I think there will come a time where it will be best to not be seen as a dissenter if you wish to live here. 

What I'm particularly talking about in my original post is the question of the frontier. Where is the frontier now? Where can I go and raise my children in peace with nothing to face but the rigors of survival? Without government interference? Without constant scrutiny by the authorities to make sure I'm fitting in with society? Does such a place still exist?


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2008)

Ernie said:


> What I'm particularly talking about in my original post is the question of the frontier. Where is the frontier now? Where can I go and raise my children in peace with nothing to face but the rigors of survival? Without government interference? Without constant scrutiny by the authorities to make sure I'm fitting in with society? Does such a place still exist?


You could squat in Alaska. Quite a few people do.


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## Henry (Mar 1, 2006)

Well since we are talking about where to go I will say there ARE places. I do not want to give my precise location away. All I will say if you truly want to find a frontier just look for places that others do not want to live in. I am talking bad weather, no jobs, no cities within 4 or 5 hours. No small towns near etc, etc. If it is a spot that the world is not interested in the gov will probably not bother you. We have no building permits and the only gov people we ever see are wildlife officers checking salmon populations and thats if we are down on the main river fishing. Look for high mountain ranges with lots of snow. This will ensure clean water and protected high valleys. I know this will be tough in the lower states but I bet there are wilderness locations available nearer than most realize. We came north in 71 because I was driven to homestead and build my own log home. It turns out that our choice of lifestyle has well prepared us for troubles from mainstream society. Mind you it has taken time, money and mostly hard work to establish out current lifestyle. I remember how ignorant we were when the first winter hit. -50 is a shock but when you think you have enough wood for the winter and it lasts 3 weeks things get interesting. We did not use a Realtor but got good topo maps and just drove thousands of miles to likely areas until we found our dream an abandon 1930 property surrounded by crown land. That guaranteed that we would not have any close neighbors. The homestead was isolated enough to keep us surrounded by all the wildlife that we could want to this day. Dreams will be tougher to find today but i am sure its possible.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I do have a question...
If we fall what happens around the world when there is an earthquake, tusumai, etc disaster that usually has a lot of American help to clean up and get back on their feet. Will that absence be noticed?

Angie


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I'm not so sure someone can squat for very long in the US. Perhaps as a temporary solution, but not long term. 

With technology being what it is (and growing all the time), the regime will be out looking for dissidents and they won't be hard to spot with things like satellite detection, infrared scoping, etc. Smoke alone will give away a location in an instant; and there aren't many unpopulated squatting places that wouldn't require a fire for heat/cooking in the winter.


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## diane (May 4, 2002)

Angie, believe it or not, we are not the only big helpers in the world. There was a time when we were the biggest, but not so much any more.

I believe in the principle of learning to hide in plain sight. There was a time when there was always a new frontier. IMO the new frontier today is my little part of the world. Learning to survive in it without drawing attention to myself as a survivalist. Permaculture plantings etc. Driving up and down my road, my place doesn't look one bit different than my neighbors but I know everything that grows on my 40 acres and the paths of all the wildlife. If you live in a state like mine that is pretty hands off as far as homeschooling, a family could live pretty unmolested by the government. It does help to live among the Amish as they are masters at passive resistance. They just do their thing and don't get all that noticed.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Angie, I don't think we will be missed. As Diane said, we no longer are the inspiration America use to be. 

What the US actually does is a crisis only a drop in the bucket compared to countries like Japan, Canada, and many European countries. They actually send aid (actual people to help and needed supplies). The US thinks all the worlds problems are solved through sending money.

The problem with financial help is that it never gets to those who need it to buy supplies or assist in rebuilding. It is swallowed up in the governmental process, clerical and administrative costs of "non-profit" agencies, greedy and corrupt government personnel on the other end, etc.

Katrina taught us a huge lesson on sending money to help. Few people ever saw a dime and still await help -- but the millions and millions raised are gone! :flame:


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## half-life (Jan 18, 2008)

diane said:


> I believe in the principle of learning to hide in plain sight. There was a time when there was always a new frontier. IMO the new frontier today is my little part of the world. Learning to survive in it without drawing attention to myself as a survivalist. Permaculture plantings etc. Driving up and down my road, my place doesn't look one bit different than my neighbors but I know everything that grows on my 40 acres and the paths of all the wildlife.


Excellent advice! I think the biggest part of preparing for those of us who do not live in the boonies (I wished I did) is being mentally aware of your surroundings. I used to live in a rural section of the county, but the developments have been popping up fast in the past 5 years. Still, I have 7 acres of living space and organic farmland. It may not look like much to outsiders, but it is an oasis for my family. As long as there is not a SHTF scenario where we have to leave, I think we will be just fine.

Being prepared with stored goods etc is very, very crucial, but also being mentally prepared is just as important. Knowing neighbors that you can trust becomes very important in a crisis situation or depression. A group of like minded trustworthy people standing together have a much better chance of weathering whatever situation might arise.

I am an optimist when it comes to like minded people coming together when the chips are down. If the government ever choses to cross that line, I'm sure many out there will voice their displeasure in many ways and actions. It may not be easy, pretty or without loss, but for those who seek freedom it never has never been easy.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

I really don't think Ernie's scenario is that far-fetched. It's probably the most likely conclusion to the economic debacle which is underway right now, in fact. In spite of the fact that I've had years to consider what to do in that event, I still don't have any answers, either. At least, no good answers. It seems that all we can do is draw nearer to God, trust Him and depend on Him, and take one day at a time. 

And, as someone said up there, make sure we are prepared to meet our Maker.

Kathleen


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2008)

No, no, no Angie, that's not true. 
What America sends most is not money, it's soldiers.
You send blood, your own blood. Your loved ones. And probably the worst part of it is that it isn't apreciated most of the time... It's a tragedy.

In terms of money I once read that America donates the most, but relatively speaking (in terms of population, what amount is given per head) you're at the 15th place or something. But because you're in the States, you probably hear more about your own nation's effords because it's more newsworthy to Americans then hearing that... I dunno, that Denmark gave aid in Kenia or something.

I think that if there's ever a full-scale war here I'd pretty much be done. This area of Europe is so densely populated there is no way you can 'run for the woods' like you guys could. Also, no guns here so no real protection (while a criminal or a soldier can always get a gun, obviously)
If it was sure that the enemy was someone that couldn't be argued with -I prefer diplomacy- then yes, I WOULD fight to the death, and claw their eyeballs out at the same time. No one will rule me. 
But like I said, I'd most likely die during that last stand. Bummer, lol.

I'm probably more affraid of 'goverments' then of random nations fighting eachother. If it's enemy-soldiers at least your own will (try to) protect you. If it's your goverment -like Hitler did- no truly will in an effective way, really.


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## half-life (Jan 18, 2008)

BlueJuniperFarm said:


> It seems that all we can do is draw nearer to God, trust Him and depend on Him, and take one day at a time.


I'm not Christian. I'm actually a semi-practicing Buddhist, but your statement brought a Buddhist teaching to mind:

"Death is certain, the time of death is uncertain, then the question becomes what really matters most in your life?"--Buddhist Nun Pema Chodron

We can only live in this very moment, so it's more important than ever to be happy in this moment and not focus on things which we have no control. We cannot dwell on the past for it has already happened and we cannot dwell on the future for it may never happen. It's a very difficult thing to do, but worrying only makes living difficult. Enjoying each and ever moment you can, makes one's life full, purposeful and worth living.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2008)

Kitty-cat said:


> I'm probably more affraid of 'goverments' then of random nations fighting eachother. If it's enemy-soldiers at least your own will (try to) protect you. If it's your goverment -like Hitler did- no truly will in an effective way, really.


Sad but true.


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## charles burns (Mar 21, 2006)

You could get involved in politics if you think your darkest thoughts are manifest in the powers that be.

_Vote for Ernie_ does have a kind of irresistible innocence to it.

There's nowhere to go - there never was. You have to take land to claim it, you have to defend it to keep it. You could become a missionary in some god forsaken corner of the earth but in the imposition of your will and your own cultural preferences you become to others what you most fear for yourself.

It's not such a bad place, my cases aren't packed.


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## ruby_jane (May 15, 2007)

Karen said:


> Katrina taught us a huge lesson on sending money to help. Few people ever saw a dime and still await help -- but the millions and millions raised are gone!  :flame:


And then you see stuff like this...

[ame]http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2008/01/20/callebs.nola.firehouses.cnn[/ame]


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Ha! I once almost ran for a seat on the local library council, but what a slippery slope it would be. First the library, next the White House!

Poor little dissident me. There's nowhere left to go when they finally change this place. Maybe in my dotage I'll feel that I can finally afford the consequences of action.

I don't really think there will be any place within the borders of the United States that will be free. You're a threat by yourself. You're more of a threat if you're teaching your own children. Heaven forbid you should talk to others and band together to spread your contagion of rhetoric.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

:goodjob:


half-life said:


> I'm not Christian. I'm actually a semi-practicing Buddhist, but your statement brought a Buddhist teaching to mind:
> 
> "Death is certain, the time of death is uncertain, then the question becomes what really matters most in your life?"--Buddhist Nun Pema Chodron
> 
> We can only live in this very moment, so it's more important than ever to be happy in this moment and not focus on things which we have no control. We cannot dwell on the past for it has already happened and we cannot dwell on the future for it may never happen. It's a very difficult thing to do, but worrying only makes living difficult. Enjoying each and ever moment you can, makes one's life full, purposeful and worth living.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm just wondering what freedom you feel deprived of


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Hiding in plain sight is the key I believe. Being unremarkable, boring, unthreatening, etc. People in our community know our faces and names but really nothing more. We do not participate in community other than at a superfical level. We vote. We shop a little locally. We sometimes go to community celebrations. We are never asked to volunteer. I've often wondered why not, but have decided its because we're hiding in plain sight. They know us but not well enough to ask anything of us. Even though all 3 of our children graduated from the local school I very very seldom have anyone inquire about them. None have stayed in the community. I work in a nearby city and am much better known there. I use that city's library and do my major shopping there. Although not a large city it is large enough that you can remain unremarkable even if you're a bit far out. We go to church in yet another small community where we are known in the church but not the community. No one in any of the communities knows that we prep. 

Recently I've helped out a couple at church with information about a sawdust toilet since their septic is frozen. They were very pleased with the information, but not in the least interested in why an old lady like me would have such information. If the shoe had been on the other foot, I would have been asking all kinds of questions as to how and why they had such information.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

My first thoughts on Ernie's *where to go* is that most, if not all of the country's or places would get the word in a hurry and their doors\borders would slam shut very quickly. You might never be allowed to get off the boat.
But if you were able to stay in that country you'd more than likely have to put up with a hugh resentment factor . . ."those stupid americans are swarming into OUR country"

At this point in my life attempting to flee to another country seems like a rather daunting task...........

Yup, . .theres much to be said about low key hiding in plain sight.


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Low-key hiding in plain sight is going to work for a while. But it won't work forever, unless you are prepared to swear allegiance to a world ruler in order to get permission to buy and sell anything. That IS coming. It's prophesied in the Bible, and we can see it talked about in the newpapers and magazines (not the one-world ruler yet, but the chips and ID cards, which are the first step). I know some of you don't believe in the Bible, but just keep watching and see what happens over the next few years.

Kathleen


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## fostermomma (Feb 26, 2007)

I agree BJF, I think that we are extremely close to having this happen. I wouldn't be suprised if it did in the next ten years.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

NoClue said:


> I'm just wondering what freedom you feel deprived of


If you mean me, then there's a lot of freedoms I'm being infringed upon.

1. I can't own a gun in Illinois without a permit. 
2. In many states I can't educate my own children without permission and scrutiny by the government, and in Illinois we have to fight EVERY YEAR to hold on to that right.
3. I'm about to need a government-approved ID to be able to cross state borders.
4. I'm subject to illegal search and seizure at police checkpoints if I'm moving about at an hour they think extraordinary. (Drunk Driving Checkpoints)
5. Midwives and homebirths in Illinois, for those of us who have chosen to have children at home, are constantly under fire and threat of prosecution.
6. I can't sell farm products without a license from the state and a costly setup.

Boy, that's just a quick list. We could go on and on. If you're thinking that America is still a free nation, I'm curious where you've been all this time.


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## netexan (Jan 3, 2008)

Ernie, I couldn't agree with you more about the loss of our personal liberties. We are the last generation who will remember what it was like to be able to travel and express our beliefs openly. 
BJF, I also believe that you are correct in assuming that the end is near and wonder if the new national ID is the precursor to the mark of the beast.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm not criticizing you, Ernie, just asking.

I've spent most of my adult life in the military, so over the past few years, I've enjoyed a tremendous increase of freedom. Admittedly though, I haven't tried to do any of the things you listed.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Well, those were just the things on my mind this morning. There's a lot more freedoms we've lost that affect the everyday man. 

Try to be a business owner who wants to allow people to smoke in their establishment. In many states you can't do it. Period. There used to be a tobacco shop with a couple of chairs and couches where I would go in and try a pipeful of something new while I chatted with the owner and other patrons. Now it's just grab your stuff and go. 

I burn calories far in excess of what your average middle-aged white male burns, I have extremely low cholesterol, and much of my diet comes from stuff that I personally pulled out of the ground or watched bleed out. Yet if I were to find myself in New York (which would take some teeth pulling), I could not walk into a restaurant and order a big cheeseburger and a side order of onion rings and have them cooked in saturated animal fat the way I want them. It's against the law. 

I can't dig a pond without calling the local authorities and getting them to come out and inspect the site first. If I were to buy a remote piece of property in the wilderness somewhere and then move out there and live in a wigwam like my ancestors, the government would come and take my children away from me. As it is, I can barely put two boards together and call it a chicken coop without some inspector's say-so.

The government takes my money and gives it to my far-wealthier competitors in the form of tax subsidies. I'm assessed taxes based on what my neighbors are doing with their properties (mostly selling them to land developers) instead of taxes based on what I'm doing with mine (scratching out a living). My taxes support a huge standing military to fight corporate wars. My taxes support bridge building in foreign lands while the bridges I drive across here fall into the rivers. There are forms and permits for almost every money-making venture I have ever considered, most of which would be profitable were it not for the permits and licensing fees. 

Compulsory _anything_ is anathema to the concept of a free society.


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## mark.cheryl (Jan 6, 2008)

My opinion has been to keep my mouth shut and look boring and lazy. Nobody is scared of "greenies" so that is a good way to live.


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

mark.cheryl said:


> My opinion has been to keep my mouth shut and look boring and lazy. Nobody is scared of "greenies" so that is a good way to live.


 LOL loved that . 

IMHO the gov will have its hands full with the cities , those that live 30 plus miles from one will not be bothered.

look at it this way there are 175000 troops trying to keep the peace in Iraq there's 50 million people in Iraq, the USA has 300 million people pluss 30 million or so illegals , how many troops to control that ?


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## charles burns (Mar 21, 2006)

Freedom is a paradox.

The more we give up the more freedom we have.

We surrender the freedom to drive the early hours of the morning without let or hindrance from a drink driving checkpoint in order to enjoy the freedom of driving the early hours of the morning free from the threat of danger from drunk drivers.

Our freedom is defined not natural. Our lifestyles define our freedom.

Natural freedom is savage. Animals live freely according to the laws of nature alone - we are beyond animal, or at least strive to be. Our motivation is compassion and concern for others not some dark, overlord, rule the world wish.

Though I do look good in black.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?"

Claude FrÃ©dÃ©ric Bastiat - from "The Law"


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## charles burns (Mar 21, 2006)

The natural tendency of mankind is to rise above all that is savage and wild. 

Organizers tend to be often mistaken, often immoral, often violent and often display a baseness that is beneath that of animal, as does the individual.

We are an intellectual work in progress.


Me - from the back room with the coffee.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Thus knowing that we are all mistaken, immoral, violent, and base creatures living in a fallen world ... is it not better and more just to not put leaders among us who will limit the freedoms of others? I am on my own spiritual journey to become greater than that to which I was born. Must I be hindered in this journey by people who seemingly have not even begun their own? 

I got my coffee too, Charles. We'll have us an enjoyable chat.


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## charles burns (Mar 21, 2006)

Yes. 

You must be hindered. As we all must in one way or another. The leaders amongst us are bound by the same limitations (in theory).

We shouldn't blindly reject an infringement of freedom but we should be sure the freedom gained by the infringement weigh more than the freedom surrendered.

You suffer the plight of the minority, the balance between that which is surrendered and that which is gained is close.


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## Bladesmith (Sep 20, 2003)

ladycat said:


> Highly doubtful. We're hardly the power we once were.



Too true.

A more important concern; the invasion of your in-laws. In perpetuity. :hobbyhors


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

My version of the above is that you are freedom means the freedom to limit your own behavior or sacrifice that right to someone else that will limit it for you.

Pretty much every stupid law on the books came as the result of somebody believing their freedom meant they could be excessively stupid in some particular way, usually to the detriment of others, or as a feeble attempt to restrict the liability of the government to cover the consequence of said stupidity.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

This is 4 years old.
A lot of things have happened since this was a current discussion.
read it carefully - and then - what do you think of what was discussed and what is now in the news?


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## Honey Berry (Oct 22, 2005)

I think I miss Ernie.


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

Honey Berry said:


> I think I miss Ernie.


me too!


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

After watching a video on Economic Terrorism, everything Ernie and many others have thought is correct. I've said all along the fix was in with the Sept 2008 run on the banks, was the beginning.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

Very interesting thread. 

To me 2008 was somewhat of a turning point. no doubt likely to be dwarfed by some to come, but a turning point nonetheless in my mind. 

It seems to me a good chunk more people want to take their own lives into their owns hands since this period. I forget the exact numbers but we have over a million new gardening americans since that period. Prepping is now semi mainstream. People trust the gov and media much less in general since that time imo. All of which are good things in my mind considering the growing economic issues and dollar issues i see looming. We cant kick the can down the road forever. 

that said, the reverse of this seems true as well. It is shocking to me. I also see more and more people completely willing to give more of their personal decisions over to the government. I dont even just mean healthcare, many people have long wanted to force their fellow citizens into that one. Just in general over a wide range of topics, I see a strong turn in the opinions of many on this type of thinking. The 9th amendment is apparently completely meaningless. 

On a gardening forum Im on, Ive actually seen people voice the idea anyone with food stocks SHOULD be targeted by hr gov if food was scarce. Hey we all benefit from the roads and schools we pay taxes for right? apparently to many this means everything I have is theirs if it comes down to it. Im mean and hate filled if I think my life is my own, and my possessions mine. The fact I DO share all I can when i can and have since I was a kid barely registers. There are many other angles to this as well, but it is very disconcerting... 

Clearly the gov has for decades been centralizing more and more power both in our nation and at the global level. heck obama is even working on another "free trade" agreement as we speak apparently ignoring (or worse not ignoring) this will force yet more americans out of work or to compete with virtual slaves. "protectionism" is now evil. the globalists and their trade networks and friend sin media and gov have convinced many people this is all inevitable. So many dont even question whether or not this is a path we truly want to take, and leave our kids... And NO Im not against trade at all, but we are unwise to water ourselves down just because we are told there is no other way. We are especially un wise to give away our national sovereignty which is potentially as big or bigger of an issue as giving it up at the state and personal levels. 

Big brother and sister read your emails, and phone calls, heck they read this forum no doubt... what do you care, do you have something to hide??? A brave new world to put it mildly...

But this isnt over yet. America has long been a catylist for many things. this isnt as true as it once was, but it hasnt completely faded either. If americans ever demand their lives back I expect many peoples of the world to follow suit. And like I said, more and more are heading to that thinking all the time. 

So for me it comes down to staying calm, having fun when I can, keeping my family fed with wholesome foods, and making my voice known when and where I can. Including talking to random people I met. Many believe us homesteaders are especially under gov radar. this may indeed be true, but it wouldnt be to easy to justify targeting us imo. The local food movement is growing and strong and has shown they can indeed push back pretty effectively. This is promising to me.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I&#8217;ve become more complacent, content and much less vocal. As I age my priorities change as well. All I want is to be left alone and for that I am willing to be a good little common citizen.

In retrospect, over my almost 4 decades of life there is only one major change I see in my country. Her people!!! 

The same talking heads ramble on the news. Wars and drama go round and round. Nothing significant in my life has changed due to who is at the helm from regime to regime. The group complaining takes turns based on the issue but nothing drastic ever lands in my lap as they suggest unless it is nature or my own doing.

My biggest danger is my fellow citizen. When I was young there were no crack heads. When I was young girls didn&#8217;t want to be sexy. When I was young the only drive by shooting I heard of was some gangsters in the 30&#8217;s. (?) etc.

I believe in prepping for natural events, job loss and misc. personal or local issues. I do not however prep for a perceived goon squad banging on my door late into the night because I talk trash about some foreign policy. I don&#8217;t homestead to be subversive. It truly is a personal interest and hobby, that&#8217;s it. It is a crying shame that the world is so off kilter that doing something so pure, traditional and respectable can be considered &#8220;shocking&#8221;. Where did we ALL go wrong as a nation to feel guarded over having a garden, an old fashioned pantry, some manure makers and goodness forbid a contrary point of view?

Too many people these days ask what their country can do for them instead of what they can do for their country. That includes those who feel entitled to handouts and those who feel entitled to a government that sees things their way and vilifies it for not.

Flame away&#8230;


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

live the 8 fold path and see where it leads you 

Ernie move out of Ill and you fix half of your short list and that is a good start.

explore other states that have more in common with you and less in common with ILL and i think you will find many of your concerns reduced.


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## meanwhile (Dec 13, 2007)

Where is Ernie?


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## rancher1913 (Dec 5, 2008)

Ernie has a blog called 'bunker index', but many of his posts have changed. Kinda like listening to a preacher now - no alternative media stories. Still some interesting and thought provoking reading

Moldy


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

As said, his Bunker Index is much more preaching and buidling his Texas homestead. Bunker Index 

He was putting down survival people as he use to be, but stopped that about last month, and concentrates on the land and the message - except once in awhile he still has to critique here and other places.

but, he's doing what he thinks is best.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

and I brought this to the front not due to it being Ernie, but for the prediction and the 4 years later aspect, for contrasting and reflecting how much is true now and how much isn't


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

hintonlady said:


> I I donât homestead to be subversive. It truly is a personal interest and hobby, thatâs it.


I cant imagine anyone lives on a homestead to be subversive. Or atleast i never heard from such a person.



> It is a crying shame that the world is so off kilter that doing something so pure, traditional and respectable can be considered âshockingâ. Where did we ALL go wrong as a nation to feel guarded over having a garden, an old fashioned pantry, some manure makers and goodness forbid a contrary point of view?


When I see people saying whats mine is theirs it does make me feel a bit guarded. 

when our gov had tried to include language in recent laws (luckily this section got shot down) that includes the ability to dictate what happens in food production all the way down to a garden, I do feel a bit guarded. 

when Im apparently a "soft" terrorist for believing in liberty, growing my own food, and storing it, I do indeed feel a bit guarded. 

where did we go wrong? imo we gave away to much of our liberty. 


> That includes those who feel entitled to handouts and those who feel entitled to a government that sees things their way and vilifies it for not.


I couldnt care less if the gov sees things my way. I do care however when said gov continues to decide more and more of my life decisions is theirs to make. That is dramatically different. Ive never heard from anyone who believes as you suggest. 


> Flame awayâ¦


Im certainly not intending to have a flame war as its called. Just disagree with a few points you made.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2012)

Not to be political, but the goverment gave up on us many years ago.
It's no longer about the people or the country, it's about power.
As far as where do we go from here. We bring our families close to us and care for them. Learn to appreciate them. Because they may be the only joy we need to keep going.
It's getting scary out there folks..


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

no matter what hair spliiting label you use on him...hes just a man and his family wanting freedom to live his life as he sees fit free of big brother.....the EXACT same thing that the people who loaded on to ships bound for here a few hundred years ago did.freedom to live......isnt that what we all want..mostly..i know its all i want.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

I don't think much has changed except perceptions.

More people are aware of what's going on. The government control, the economic problems, the restless population(from gangs to protesters), the political bickering. It's all more transparent for more people and even accepted now, by many that didn't have use for "conspiracies" or 'false prophecy' or "Doom and Gloom", whatever the label that's used ATM. Doom and gloom seems even more inevitible, IMO, if you keep an eye on gov and politics. I see no hope the the progressive trend(more laws/less freedom) is going to stop. 

So, where to go? I dunno.

I think I'll stay put and deal with whatever comes my way.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

All these freedoms are based in hypocricy anyway, just ask the Native Americans and African Americans.

Freedom is relative to which side you are on.

History has witneesed a much bigger picture of what truth, justice and freedom has been all over the world. Too many people focus on the pinprick of time that their lives are an intersection of. There were and will be many more besides us and each individual has their own interpretation of reality.

IF the MAJORITY felt there was injustice, IF the MAJORITY spoke, so it would be. There is nothing stopping anyone from organizing a movement. There is nothing stopping anyone from stepping up peacefully for their beliefs and values. If you meet with failure do not falter, try again. Rather I see preppers calling non preppers sheeple and I see non preppers calling preppers crazy fanatics.

I also see the MAJORITY perfectly content with the status quo, or at least content enough to be too bothered to bother. *The great irony of our country is that free people can freely choose to give up their freedoms.* If you feel infringed upon you are free to speak up. THAT is the system operating as it should and representing a majority that is free to care less.


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## silverseeds (Apr 28, 2012)

hintonlady said:


> All these freedoms are based in hypocricy anyway, just ask the Native Americans and African Americans.
> 
> Freedom is relative to which side you are on.


freedom in that context isnt relative imo. Obviously in the pas thte peoples you list didnt have it. It is a terrible shame. they deserved it then, just as all the peoples of the world do today...


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

I just spent a while reading Ernie's Blog. I most enjoyed his daily descriptions of the homesteading process, with pictures.

Only one thing. Brownwood, TX is NOT a desert. Maybe it does not get as much rain as IL, but for sure it is in NO WAY desert. How do I know?

My house in NM is in the desert. BIIIIG difference.

Other than that I like most of what he is saying.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

veggiecanner said:


> Not to be political, but the goverment gave up on us many years ago.
> It's no longer about the people or the country, it's about power.
> As far as where do we go from here. We bring our families close to us and care for them. Learn to appreciate them. Because they may be the only joy we need to keep going.
> It's getting scary out there folks..


Perfectly stated Veggiecanner! Amen! :goodjob:


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

GoldenCityMuse said:


> I just spent a while reading Ernie's Blog. I most enjoyed his daily descriptions of the homesteading process, with pictures.
> 
> Only one thing. Brownwood, TX is NOT a desert. Maybe it does not get as much rain as IL, but for sure it is in NO WAY desert. How do I know?
> 
> ...


But "desert" has a nice dramatic ring to it.


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

GoldenCityMuse said:


> I just spent a while reading Ernie's Blog. I most enjoyed his daily descriptions of the homesteading process, with pictures.
> 
> Only one thing. Brownwood, TX is NOT a desert. Maybe it does not get as much rain as IL, but for sure it is in NO WAY desert. How do I know?
> 
> ...


I think it's all relative to what you're accustomed to. Being from the mountains of Tennessee, I believe Brownwood would be a desert to me and I would probably call it that. I enjoy Ernie's blog and check it often. What he has done, going off grid and all, is something I would like to do someday. I am still trying to learn about the solar aspect of it as one of my children(special needs) needs to have some electricity.
Karen


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## udwe (Aug 8, 2009)

"places that others do not want to live in. I am talking bad weather, no jobs, no cities within 4 or 5 hours. If it is a spot that the world is not interested in the gov will probably not bother you."

Sounds like where I live.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

Regarding desert, it has a specific definition. If we are going to use words, we should use them properly. Now it does look like his property is a hardscrabble place that was overgrazed or something, and TX has been in a BAD drought, but neither meet the definition of desert.

The temperate rainforests of the PACNW would make TN seem to be a desert, relatively speaking, but that would be incorrect. Yes I know defining desert is not cut & dried, it is pretty easy to look up precip totals and see where it lies.

Anyway, not to take away at all from what Ernie & family are doing, I applaud & encourage them in this endeavor to leave the lush paradise of the PR of IL. Others should follow their example.


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