# If you could do anything....



## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

what would you do with alternative energy?

It looks like my man and I ARE going to have our own land the end of March. We are getting 160 acres. It's bush, grass, and hills with 2 dugouts. 

Someday we want to build a dream house on top of one of the hills...but for now we are going to buy a cheap mobile home and hopefully live worry free for a while. I think with this economy being as it is we would be foolish to build a new house even if we can technically do it according to the banks! Ya right...we all know how that is turning out.

The property is not serviced. There are no building or anything on it. It's just a cow pasture right now.

We want to go off the grid and have our own power and heat. 

What do you suggest? How good are wind turbines? How reliable are solar panels? Pellet stoves? Boilers? What do you guys use and are you happy? What do you wish you would have done? 

We have two children and are going to need a 3 bedroom house (a boy and a girl otherwise 2 bedroom would be fine)..but it can be small. If that helps with any of your suggestions (not sure if size of the house matters with what type of energy we should use). We are also going to have a small barn and a shop of sorts. 

Any info would be helpful!


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

That far north, the first thing you need to think about is insulation. A cheap mobile home off-grid will be a challenge there. Solar isn't cost effective. Wind is fine IF you are comfortable with heights or have a way to easily tilt down the unit for maintenance.

I can't imagine going cold turkey into off-grid living on the cheap. It takes time to understand batteries and all of the nuances.

Consider starting with a gas generator, a few deep cycle batteries, a couple of inverters (one 200 watt, one 2000 watt), low voltage LED lighting, appliances from a camping or boating place that can run directly on battery. Start looking through the Homepower magazine CDs for some of the smaller projects, especially some in the early issues.

If you have enough wood for a wood stove or furnace, that is the way to go. Eventually, you might be able to produce woodgas and run the generator (or a smaller version that charges batteries) on that.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Very first things a wood stove with a hot water circuit, and a generator.Then batteries,then solar panels to replace your oil lamps or propane lighting. Solar vrs. wind depends on the site.Hard to beat the reliability of solar panels.

IMO. Just what I would do,doesnt mean Im right by any stretch.


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks guys. I honestly thought it would be as easy as buying a giant wind turbine and hooking it up to your house. It's going to cost between $20-$30 grand to put in power lines...so I thought even if we spend 30 grand on a wind turbine and then have no costs after that we are still ahead. I really have some research to do. 

My man tried to tell me that if a bird poops on a solar panel it stops working...is that true? Does one little spot effect the whole thing? 

What about pellet stoves? The ones that run on pellets or grain and only take a bag a day...? Anyone dealt with those. We have been told they are the way to go.

My ex husband and I lived in a 1986 moblie home with wood heat for 2 years (he is still living in it). We put a woodstove in the porch and a fan and blew hot air down the house. Our room was a little cool, but our daughters room was fine. The kitchen was toasty. So I know that woodstoves in mobile homes can work. 

We also lived in an uninsulated hired hand shack for 2 years and it took 2 wood stoves running almost constantly to keep 900 sq. feet warm. It wasn't bad if both stoves were going. lol!


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

One spot of bird poop will reduce output slightly. Enough shade to completely shade an entire cell (usually 6 inches square or so) on the panel will reduce a good portion of the output as long as it is shaded, on part of the panel.

For $20,000 you could get a good start on a quality off-grid system, and for $30,000 it could be a very good system, using PVs. A good quality wind generator big enough to power what most people want might cost $25,000 installed, or more.

Jim, using windpower since 1977 and PVs since 1982, in Wisconsin


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

My man tried to tell me that if a bird poops on a solar panel it stops working...is that true? Does one little spot effect the whole thing?
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Thats crazy talk. But you do want to keep em clean.Therefore when mounting its to your benefit to make them accessible.A 30,000 dollar system is a lot of system.Also about poop.....if thats a real problem,like you are the duck migration station, look at Unisolar panels,much less effected by shading.Really though,if squirting water on panels is your maintenance thats no big deal.

The most reliable machine I own is solar panels.Would be my first choice for power pretty much.Unless I lived in constant wind or had a fine water source for turbine.Even then would still have some solar panels.They just keep on keepin' on,no muss,no fuss,no noise.....

Should run about anything except large electric heating/cooling loads.It isnt cost effective to heat or cool or make hot water with solar ELECTRIC panels for the most part.But the solar hot water and room heating is very good.

Yes,getting efficient appliances is a good idea,they are cost beneficial.Now if you have excess electric power,dont bother.But they say every dollar spent on efficiency cuts 4 dollars out of system costs.Not sure how accurate that is today,10 years ago it was.

Last my Bud told me his 1000 dollar sundanzer chest freezer has AVERAGE energy use met by just 75 watts,At zero degree F! Of course sometimes needs more,but you get the picture..

Go look at 
http://www.builditsolar.com/

Thats Gary's site.If ideas are what you want,its right there,you will find it very helpful.Especially cost/benefit which is a Gary strongpoint,Ive never seen better for that at one site.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Jackie said:


> What about pellet stoves? The ones that run on pellets or grain and only take a bag a day...? Anyone dealt with those. We have been told they are the way to go.


A friend gave me one of those.Because it was always breaking down.I was unable to get parts for it. Plus takes electric to run,just not MY cup of tea. I'd like to hear from others on that too.


IMO a wood stove has no moving parts,should be more like this....Here is a thread I did on it before.....
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This is the 557 pound,steel welded Pioneer wood cookstove.This is a utilitarian stove,not made for beauty but for function and longevity.It has a nice stainless steel cooktop.

It will easily heat 2000 foot as claimed,it was heating 1400 sq/ft in 20 degree weather and it was loafing along to that.

This stove will also heat your hot water.With the optional 100 USD heat exchanger pipe it can be plumbed to a hot water tank and will provide plenty of hot water for 4 people.So for 100 dollars,get the exchange pipe.It also has a water tank that is opened from the top of the cooking top,but really is pretty useless,maybe adds a little humidity but doesnt do much else.

The damper controls SQUEEK like crazy when you adjust them,but controlling of burn is very precise.You can also control if you want heat to circulate around the oven.

Oven has a thermometer in the door and oven temps are accurately controlled.It is firebrick lined and good sized too.

The firebox is accessed by the top of the stovetop on the left.It has one of the largest fireboxes available.16 inch logs feed easily.It burns clean,leaving fine ash behind.

It claims overnight burn times,but not sure how they do that,we would put in 2 logs,damp it down and you better be up in 4 hours to refill it was my experience.Could just be I dont know what Im doing,but thats what we got.

At about 2200.00 USD,this is a very nice stove.Highly recommend this product.
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Link to Manufactures info
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OK,I just spent a couple weeks by myself with this stove.

I was able to damp it overnight with one log in it,so I can say it lives up to that claim.

As for the oven,it has to be HOT to get oven above 350 degrees.

As for hot water we never ran out,the heat exchanger to a water tank works great.

All in all this stove lives up to its claims and its price.

Picture of stove in use.....










This is the firebox,I used about 5-6 pieces of 16 inch long Oak per day,temps were in the 40F range at night and mid 60's during the day.That translates to cool during day and chilly at night in Celcius.That would be the access from the stovetop about where the cast iron fry pan sits


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

"A Giant Wind turbine".......................
Care full on the usage of that word *giant*

A brand that I install is 10k watts . . hardly a giant..........
But its price is $ 26K just for the turbine.......
Then we need a tower to put it on . .starting around $ 10k

This is NOT to discourage you from considering a wind system...but to give you an idea as to prices for a turbine that would power your whole home/shop/well/etc.

Check the wind maps for data in the area you are going to . .

Smaller turbines are available with smaller price tags and of course much smaller power produced.

Wind and PV really go well together


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH! Keep up with the good suggestions.

I just read him this thread over the phone (he is away at work...3 week stretches). He said that his experience on solar was based on what he knew from a long time ago. We talked about it and we don't really think there would be that much wind there. Hills, bush, more bush. It would have to be a pretty darn tall tower. (we can be pretty silly and not see things that are right in front of our faces) BUT we could easily set up solar panels to be in the sun all day. There is a big clearing where I think we are going to put the house. I have a magazine here that I just bought....Mother Earth News - guide to home energy savings. They have a big article in there about solar panels on a shed heating a tank of water that heats the house. Not sure how well that would work in almost northern Canada...but it's worth looking into. I have to finish reading this magazine.

mightybooboo

I had NO idea you could still buy something like that. I thought you had to get lucky finding an antique somewhere. Very interesting! I like the idea. My ex husband and I just had this little woodstove with a glass front. I mean little. We heated our home with that in the living room and a tiny homemade looking thing in the porch. They had to be filled CONSTANTLY. Thank goodness we had 16000 acres total of bush to collect trees from to burn and a huge woodshed. We used to use that thing for cooking. Learned the hard way that when the baked potatoes still feel hard they can actually be burnt black all the way through! lol! We left them in for 45 min and couldn't figure out why they were not cooking! I am certainly not opposed to cooking on something other than a 'regular' stove. I used to use an old antique like that when I worked at a horse packing mountain riding tourist camp.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

Hmmm isn't the only good thing about a Saskatchewan winter is, it isn't a Manatoba winter?  I have friends with pellet corn stoves, they like them alot. (I'll have to ask for brand names again) The power needs are minimal, easily done off a battery and inverter, but you're buying a manufactured fuel which means the price could get pretty variable. Read up the sticky thread by Hardy solar at the top of the forum, it covers solar. I like your thinking 30 k to bring in the grid gives you options to do a mix of solar and wind power and live power bill free.


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## justmyluk (Apr 28, 2005)

Jackie,
I see you live in Canada... Have you seen the episode with Les Stroud (survivorman) called "Off The Grid". Les and his wife with 2 kids buy 150 acres in Canada, renovate an old carrage house and set up solar panels and a wind generator. If it is still available, you can can go to youtube.com and watch the whole thing. Just go to youtube.com and type "les stroud off the grid" It is in 7 parts, you just have to start at part 1 and then go to 2 ect... 

I think you will find this very helpful in your quest to go "Off The Grid" in Canada.

Enjoy...


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## Jackie (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks guys! Haven't been online much the last bit, but I am going to check out all the links and sites I have been directed to.

I just bought these books 

The Renewable Energy Handbook - A Guide to Rural Energy Independence, Off Grid and Sustainable Living

Solar Power For Your Home For Dummies

and a Countryside magazine with articles on off grid systems.

Any other book suggestions would be appreciated!

I am glad to see I am not the only one interested in this. I went to the home section of the book store and at least 50% of the books were about going green, alternative energy sources and alternative home building. I was even able to find the books in the tiny mall bookstore as well as the big one.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

i wonder if that was solargary's shed you saw in mother earth news? his site is awesome! check out www.builditsolar.com


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## WisJim (Jan 14, 2004)

The best source of home sized renewable energy is Home Power magazine. Some articles and lots of basic info at their website. www.homepower.com

According to some wind maps on the internet, the area around Quill Lake might have adequate wind (in the 11 to 15mph at 50 meters height range) to make a wind generator worth doing. A reasonable tower height is 120 feet almost anywhere. Rarely is a shorter tower worth doing. A taller one may be needed if there are lots of trees or other obstructions around the site. The best way to find out is to have a professional site survey done, which can cost $500 or so.


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## Drew Cutter (Dec 30, 2008)

I'm surprise nobody brought up geothermal or solar collector (boiler ,indirect tanks , liquid to heat exchanger). The question is how close are you to the lake ? Can you use the lake for geothermal ?


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## fantasymaker (Aug 28, 2005)

Im quite taken with the listeriod Desiel engines and generators with just a bit of pumbing almost all of the heat and electricty generated from a gallon of fuel could be used in the house.


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