# Clumping Manure



## macly (Nov 25, 2011)

Can we talk dewormers? I am a new goat owner and have been researching and researching dewormers, looking into running my own fecals (vet tech background) or sending them away so I'm not blindly deworming, and just all around reading everything I can. I completely understand that everyone has a preference, but that makes it thoroughly confusing.  Well my time to wait while researching is over. Over the weekend my Nubian doe, 4 weeks post freshening starting clumping her manure which I understand is a sign of a worm load. I NOW know she should have been wormed the day after kidding, but I someone missed that important step when bringing her home after she kidded. I finally decided I would worm with Ivomec orally, and then submit a sample for parasitology before proceeding to deworm her again in 10 days. But now I've read that if they have a heavy worm load (which she might since she's clumping but she is showing no other signs) that SQ injection is the best way to go for a slow die off vs. a massive die off orally that may create gastric hemorrhaging. So...I can't buy syringes and needles in my state, I need to order them online and ship. Should I take the few days and ship them or orally dose her? If I stick with Ivomec, should it be the regular or Plus? What would you do? I understand these are my decisions to make, just looking for some opinions. Thank you so much. Your wisdom on these boards in incredible!


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## "SPIKE" (Dec 7, 2011)

Clumping manure does not necessarily mean worms. Was there a change in diet? Has the pasture gotten fresher?

SPIKE


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Depending on location, it could be a sign of spring vegetation.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Personally, I think that whole gastric bleeding hoohah is based on ONE goat whose necropsy got posted online. NEVER have I heard of it happening to anyone on this board or any other board that I frequent.


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## macly (Nov 25, 2011)

Ok, that makes sense. We're in the northeast and the browse and grass has exploded. I moved their pasture to fresh browse at the end of last week that also has some fairly tall and lush grass. I definitely saw her eating a lot of the grass in addition to the browse. This may also explain why some piles are normal berries and some are clumped. She had a few this morning where there wasnt as much berry definition in the clump, much more soft, so that has made me worried.

As for dewormers, can both Ivomec and Ivomec plus be given orally or SQ? Both fine for the kids to nurse on and doe in milk?


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## BackfourtyMI. (Sep 3, 2007)

I have a doe that gets clumpy poo first thing in the spring every year since she makes a piggy out of the lush green stuff. I have to limit them when everything first turns nice to nice thick green stuff.

I wouldn't give the Ivermectin SQ. In goats it works better given orally & also I have read that it really stings given SQ. The only time I ever gave it SQ is when a buck had mites that I didn't notice until they were bad because of the color of his hair.

Worms/Wormers
The above is a great link to wormers & dosages.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I have the Sheep and Goat Medicine textbook for veterinary college. It says *ALL* goat dewormers are to be given orally.


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## eclipchic (Oct 24, 2010)

I've done it both ways, FYI though, apparently Ivomec stings like a (insert expletive phrase about the male offspring of an female dog here)........! This says my goat who went rearing/bucking and falling over trying to escape the sting.


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## macly (Nov 25, 2011)

Thank you all!!


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## Whisperwindkat (May 28, 2009)

Another thing you might want to do is to check around with the large animal vets to see if ivermectin is even effective in your area anymore. Many areas of the country have a high ivermectin resistance and it is no longer effective. I agree with the spring green and clumpy stool. Happens every spring with mine. They will have a clumpy stool for a day or two mixed with normal berries and then back to normal. Blessings, Kat


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

For me, clumping manure is something that lets me know to keep an eye on things because it might be the start of something. I think it is caused by almost anything that disrupts the normal rythym of the digestive tract. Things from worms to a change in feed to the start of illness. 
If it persists more than a day or too or gets worse, it is a sign to do something. 
How odd are livestock people? Manure- it's quanity and quality- is a great source of interest and discussion.


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## JoannaCW (Nov 29, 2008)

My goats also tend to get clumpy manure when they switch from hay to grass, worse if I don't take care to introduce the grass gradually. If the manure berries are flat and squashy rather than just clumped together, or if the does are losing weight or appetite or if their inner eyelids turn pale, I start to worry about parasites.

I use herbal wormer, which seems to be effective and doesn't require milk withdrawal. I used to worm with fenbendozole but the parasites in one of the does apparently developed a resistance.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Manure is very telling. A goat who is not getting enough protein will have single berries. The berries will not stick together. A goat who is getting too much protein will have one big clump of manure with hardly any signs of berries. A goat who is getting the proper amount of protein will have nice soft berries that will stick together and give the appearance of a giant raspberry.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I very strenuously disagree, Steff. Goat berries that are normal do NOT stick together. Like deer manure, they are separate.


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

I have also heard that selenium deficiency can cause clumping.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

I am going on the advise of he vet. He is very goat savvy.
My goats berries stick together all the time. They are in perfect health, no worm load plenty of selenium, plenty of copper look and milk great.
The buck's berries do not stick and he does not get grain only hay, minerals and water. 
They should not be hard in a dairy goat that is fed properly.


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## FrogTacos (Oct 25, 2011)

Macly - I highly recommend getting the supplies to do your own fecal testing. I got all of my stuff over the last couple of days and, along with my daughter, have actually been having fun processing the samples and taking a look at what my babies are carrying. All total I paid about $250 for EVERYTHING - and already have other people asking me to run their samples - which I will do for $5 each. I run 50 samples at that rate and my operation more than pays for itself.

The really good thing is, if I have goat where parasites might be questionable - I will know in less than an hour exactly what the goat is carrying, and which product I should use to treat it.

-I follow the process laid out on the Fias Co Farm page.


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