# Help! Border collies terrorizing horses and chickens



## Lucyloo (Jan 11, 2018)

Hi everyone,

I have two 8 month old border collies who, whenever they are let out, either run straight to the chicken coop or beeline to the horse pasture, and nearly give the animals heart attacks! They jump up and bang against the mesh wire on our chicken coop, run circles around it barking, and have done some serious damage to it that we had to fix! With the horses, they drive our old mare crazy, running and jumping around her in circles while barking. I completely understand that this is just their herding instincts kicking in, but if anyone has had this same problem or knows how to fix or prevent it, please let me know. Ideally, I want my BCs to be the protectors of the chicken coop, rather that being fixated on breaking into it 24/7!

Thanks!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Are they littermates?


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## Lucyloo (Jan 11, 2018)

Lisa in WA said:


> Are they littermates?


No, one (the male) is a month or two younger than the female.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Lucyloo said:


> No, one (the male) is a month or two younger than the female.


I have a border collie but the idea of having two as puppies at the same time “training” each other doesn’t sound optimal.
mine was trained by our Great Pyrenees and a pony who doesn’t suffer poorly behaved dogs.
You don’t want this getting worse. Might want to call a trainer. I would for sure keep them contained before they kill a chicken or get kicked by the horse.


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## Lucyloo (Jan 11, 2018)

Lisa in WA said:


> I have a border collie but the idea of having two as puppies at the same time “training” each other doesn’t sound optimal.
> mine was trained by our Great Pyrenees and a pony who doesn’t suffer poorly behaved dogs.
> You don’t want this getting worse. Might want to call a trainer. I would for sure keep them contained before they kill a chicken or get kicked by the horse.


In addition to the 2 BCs we have a lab mix and an anatolian shepherd that are always around, so they are somewhat training them, but so far haven't done anything about this problem. We have been keeping a better eye on them when we let them run around lately, and have been keeping them in a big enclosed area more of the day. Hopefully the problem will get better as our other dogs begin to put them in their place.

Thanks for the advice!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Lucyloo said:


> In addition to the 2 BCs we have a lab mix and an anatolian shepherd that are always around, so they are somewhat training them, but so far haven't done anything about this problem. We have been keeping a better eye on them when we let them run around lately, and have been keeping them in a big enclosed area more of the day. Hopefully the problem will get better as our other dogs begin to put them in their place.
> 
> Thanks for the advice!


I didn’t really have any...just a tough problem.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

8 month old puppies are like 2 year old kids. Get them plenty of exercise and be with them anytime they are able to get near the chickens or horses, teach them "No" if you have not already and hopefully they'll grow out of it.


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## Lucyloo (Jan 11, 2018)

mnn2501 said:


> 8 month old puppies are like 2 year old kids. Get them plenty of exercise and be with them anytime they are able to get near the chickens or horses, teach them "No" if you have not already and hopefully they'll grow out of it.


Thank you.


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

Two puppies is usually not a good idea. They tend to form the pack mentality which spells trouble. Your older dogs are not going to train the puppies, that isn't their job. The pups need training from you. The longer their behavior continues, the harder it will be to fix it. They should not be allowed to harass the other animals, as they could easily get stomped or kicked.

I would start with the basics: sit, stay, come, leave it and no. And of course a solid recall. That way they are under your control even when not right by your side (hopefully). Even a dog with herding instinct needs to be trained to use his instincts and respond to commands. The dog helps the owner, but the owner needs to do the thinking and give directions, so an innate herding instinct isn't enough.

Good luck, sounds like you've got your hands full!


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## kalmara (Aug 21, 2011)

you need to start training them now. Put one away in a kennel or tie it up, two pups will egg each other on. Put in some one on one time with each of them. Being a working breed they need a job, you need to give them a job, supervised. Not a good idea to sit back & wait for them to be trained by the older dogs, it just isn't going to happen that way. Maybe think about rehoming one of them to make it easier & give you more time to concentrate on getting one trained.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Lucy, I keep BC or heading dogs (which have a large amount of BC in their breeding) and to start with neither breed should bark - they are eye dogs. Your other dogs are not going to "teach" them to do anything.

Are you expecting these pups to grow into LGD's? because that's what your original post sounds like. That isn't going to happen. BC's are working dogs, their instinct is to work stock usually sheep but also cattle, not to patrol your perimeter fencing as an LGD. They are full-on dogs, need heaps of exercise and/or work, get bored if they don't get it and will go off to find their own "work" which may not be the best thing for you.

You have had good advice from Kalmera and others - please, take it on board. 

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

Training is a must. Work on getting them to come as soon as you call. Explain “no” to them....I love Border Collies and have had several. They learned the word “out”, which meant get your tushy out of the pasture. I never allowed them out unless they were with me. If you need too, keep them on a lease while you are starting their training. I had one that I was not able to train. Her herding instinct was so powerful and she was as stubborn as they come. I ended up giving her to a neighbor who raised BC’s for his cattle operation. She turned into a great dog for him because she need a much more difficult job than I could give her. My favorite Jake, was a great herder but was much more into being with me. He followed me everywhere and listened very well. He had the instinct but it just wasn’t as powerful as the female.


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## CountryMom22 (Nov 27, 2014)

Ronney picked up on something I totally missed in your original post.... Border Collies are not LGD's. They will not patrol your property. They are herding dogs in need of a job. Bored BC's can be a nightmare. These may not be the right dogs for the job!


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## Pyrpup2016 (Sep 11, 2016)

You've gotten some good ideas here, but the basics are that those pups shouldn't ever be loose with the stock!!!! You need a long line, and work with them one at a time, and Never off the line. Every time they do something you don't like, you have to have some control to stop it. Every time they do something, it is a lesson - good or bad, it's a lesson they've learned. If you can't control them, they can't be loose. Period.!!! None of us that raise working dogs allow the bad behaviors to be learned. Pups are either on a line, or penned up. It will take work, lots of it. They are doing what their instincts tell them, but you have to be able to control what they do and when. As others have said, two pups is a recipe for untrained, out of control dogs. They work for and with each other, rather than you. BC's are very receptive to training, but it has to be consistent and firm. They also (as others have said) are not guardian dogs. They are dogs that gather and hold stock - then learn to bring them to the handler. They will always revert to that behavior, given the chance. They may learn to mellow out, but shouldn't be trusted loose with stock until they're old and "chilled out".


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

A single well trained BC is too much for most farms. They need a job. That can be agility events, hours on end Frisbee catching, eliminating geese from an airport or community park or herding a flock of sheep.
An untrained BC is a pest on every farm or back yard.
Two untrained BC puppies are a disaster. BC will herd sheep, cattle, horses, ducks, children, joggers. They are intense. Any fast object is exciting. The snow off a shovel, a rabbit or a flock of chickens. Without the command "stay", expect disaster.
Their instinct is to group animals and move them towards you.
Wrong breed, wrong job, wrong plan. I don't see a happy ending here.


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## nobrabbit (May 10, 2002)

Our last BC came from working lines and had a very strong herding drive. But he really did not settle down in to a good working dog until he was around 3 yrs. old. We sent him to several nationally known trainers in our area but there is no way I would ever have turned him loose in the same area as any of our stock when he was a youngster. He would have done exactly what you describe your pups as doing - harassing the stock. We originally obtained him to work sheep and while he did great in a small pen with them he just was not very interested in them out in the field.

We sent him out one day after some cattle and boy did he excel! Turned out to be the best cattle dog we ever had. He was great at not only moving them but could drive them as well. Give your pups some time, keep them tethered to you at all times when you are working around the farm so you can control them. If all else fails, like others have said, they may not make good farm dogs but they may excel at obedience or something else.

Here are a couple of pics of Keb on the job. He was my husband's right-hand man until we lost him to cancer.


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Two puppies around the approximately the same age can develop what's called littermate syndrome. Basically they will bond and listen to each other and not to humans. They are a nightmare to work with so they will need hours of separation and training during that time period to be trainable. I would recommend you place the one causing the most problems in a more suitable home and see if the one left alone changes his ways and train that one.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

So you have two high prey drive, high energy dogs feeding off of each other's energy, competing with and being directed by each other, with no reason to conform to human intervention. Recipe for disaster. Most important piece of equipment in a border collie trainer's arsenal is a secure kennel, out of sight of other animals, spacious enough and with enough entertaining features to keep them from going completely nuts.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

For - 4 - solid - months I walked my bird dog pup on a leash so he would not bother the chickens. I scolded him every time he snapped a point at them because pointing is part of how they hunt and he was obviously fixating on chickens as prey. Then I let him off the leash but watched from the window and again I scolded him for acting like chickens were prey. He was one repressed dog!

THEN, one time when I praised him for chasing a rabbit I could see the light go on. Rabbit hunting was allowed! So the it became his beloved past time to chase the rabbits and hunt the raccoons and possums. (fortunately the yard was fenced or he would have run in front of a car: the dog was obsessed with hunting) When he cornered the possums I not only praised him I gave him dog treats once he had calmed down.

He was a very useful dog until he was too old and crippled to patrol the 1 acre yard.

It was a LOT of work when he was a pup, and he was a VERY high energy dog, but he did a very good job for me and it was worth it. Back then I free ranged, and when the neighbor lost 25 chickens one year, that year I only lost one. Also there was very little rabbit damage in the garden. The dog was bred to hunt, and once he realized what prey was allowed he went after it heart and soul.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The above would be an example of redirection and substitution followed by reward in some dog training circles. But the thing the dog was bred to do is still what it did. There is not much escaping that, at least not until you have a bunch of generations of dogs that don't do what they were bred to do.


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

It's been over 2 months without response from OP. Hoping for the best for those pups but if someone waits 8 months for advice then disappears... I just hope she found a BC rescue.


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