# Toronto terror act or accident?



## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/23/world/toronto-collision-pedestrians/index.html

Multiple injuries.


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## catsboy (May 14, 2015)

It has all the markings of terrorist attack. Ryder rental van abandoned, high rate of speed.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

Reports now say 9 dead and 16 hurt. Motive still being investigated. I feel for the victims and their families.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

It sounds like a terror attack since it was a rented van and witnesses have said the driver was Middle Eastern. They also said he drove down the sidewalks for nearly one half mile.

He's now in custody so maybe there will be more information soon.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

oh did they say it was a middle eastern man? hasn't been on our news.they likely wont say it if it is. I figured it was terrorism too when I saw the van


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

newfieannie said:


> oh did they say it was a middle eastern man?


I saw one report I saw said that an eyewitness had made that statement.
I think this is him.
It's hard to tell his ethnicity from this picture.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

He was known to the police. There was a gun standoff and one police officer was able to take him into custody. The officer did not take a shot either.


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## Hitch (Oct 19, 2016)

When is this madness going to end?! We must ban vans in hopes of savings thousands of lives.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> He was known to the police. There was a gun standoff and one police officer was able to take him into custody. The officer did not take a shot either.


Thank goodness there were no guns fired! People could have been hurt even killed!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Thank goodness there were no guns fired!


The TV news said the suspect pointed "an object" at police.

It may not have been a gun at all, or may have been a pellet gun.
The LEO didn't seem very threatened, and he was close enough to see what it was.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Hitch said:


> When is this madness going to end?! We must ban vans in hopes of savings thousands of lives.


Just the military style assault vans with high capacity fuel tanks.
We don't want to take your vans, but we must.
It's just common sense van control.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Hitch said:


> When is this madness going to end?! We must ban vans in hopes of savings thousands of lives.


....for the children. Lets all stage walk outs from our jobs until they clamp down on van rentals. The government (of all nations) must not bow to the pressure of the rental van lobby.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Thank goodness there were no guns fired! People could have been hurt even killed!



You bet, let's use a tragedy to make a silly political point.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mnn2501 said:


> ....for the children. Lets all stage walk outs from our jobs until they clamp down on van rentals. The government (of all nations) must not bow to the pressure of the rental van lobby.


Really? There are grieving families.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

keenataz said:


> You bet, let's use a tragedy to make a silly political point.


Seems that's what everyone else is doing with any other tragedy. Or is it only politically correct to make silly political points when guns are involved.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Police and Canadian news are not jumping to conclusions or guessing but waiting for the investigation to provide the facts . They have arrested the driver and released his name. Alex Minassian age 25. Extra security is being placed in effect
because of the G7 which is taking place but so far not changed the way the police are proceeding.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

My deepest condolences to the people of Canada and to the families that have suffered the loss (and injury)of loved ones.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> You bet, let's use a tragedy to make a silly political point.


We're using the same lines the gun grabbers spout whenever there's a shooting.
I've not heard you chastise them.



Irish Pixie said:


> Really? There are grieving families.


None of them are reading anything here.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

keenataz said:


> You bet, let's use a tragedy to make a silly political point.


but... but.. wait... um... It seems to be the going thing, right?


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Really? There are grieving families.


There seems to be another crowd all over similar incidents to push their agendas


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## Truckinguy (Mar 8, 2008)

Unless things have changed in the last half hour or so he was not known to police, there is no evidence so far of radicalization and mental illness is the primary focus of the investigation. Early stages of the investigation, of course, so that could change.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Truckinguy said:


> Unless things have changed in the last half hour or so he was not known to police


Several reports I've read said he was "known to police".



> The driver in the van incident was previously known to Toronto authorities, according to a US law enforcement official who was briefed on the matter.
> https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...ent/index.html


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Shine said:


> There seems to be another crowd all over similar incidents to push their agendas


All decent human beings should know that you don't use bodies for your agenda until they are at least cold. At the time of the "at least it wasn't a gun" statements, no one knew how many were even dead or injured.

I believe it's how you're raised and if you have empathy... when I look in the mirror I see a decent human being.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> All decent human beings should know that you don't use bodies for your agenda until they are at least cold. At the time of the "at least it wasn't a gun" statements, no one knew how many were even dead or injured.
> 
> I believe it's how you're raised and if you have empathy... when I look in the mirror I see a decent human being.


Why doesn't that apply to gun control idiots?
Even Obama would jump on the bodies, rub some onion in his eye and call for gun control
I guess that's different.
People here are not making fun of the dead, they are pointing out the hypocrisy of the anti-gun crowd.
When guns are not present, the bad guys will still find a way to kill, but gives the victims no chance to defend themselves.
My sympathies to the families and victims.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Cornhusker said:


> Why doesn't that apply to gun control idiots?
> Even Obama would jump on the bodies, rub some onion in his eye and call for gun control
> I guess that's different.
> People here are not making fun of the dead, they are pointing out the hypocrisy of the anti-gun crowd.
> ...


Why are you making this political? Did this incident involve a gun? No.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Where were you when the Parkland children accepted all of the help from all of the agenda driven groups to carry their banner all through the nation? Oh, that's right... The kids rode their bicycles and packed their lunches and stayed in tents all the while.. now I remember...


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

You complain about what you think liberals are doing wrong but then you do the same thing to prove a point about them. Such a winning thing to do.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

painterswife said:


> You complain about what you think liberals are doing wrong but then you do the same thing to prove a point about them. Such a winning thing to do.


I would make the assumption that you are replying to me. Could you demonstrate when I " do the same thing to prove a point about them"? Please?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Shine said:


> I would make the assumption that you are replying to me. Could you demonstrate when I " do the same thing to prove a point about them"? Please?


 I am replying to the thread in general. You can find a few examples of the behavior I noted.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

classic case of "DO as I say and NOT as I do."


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Why are you making this political? Did this incident involve a gun? No.


That's the point.
It didn't involve guns, he still killed people.
Maybe we need to rant and rail against the real issues instead of politicizing every mass killing to further an agenda?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> You complain about what you think liberals are doing wrong but then you do the same thing to prove a point about them. Such a winning thing to do.


What's the difference between what you guys do and what others do?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Lots of bad and incomplete information went out yesterday - on US news - as every side tried to push their agenda instead of waiting for verified information. Minassian was not known to police nor was he on any terror watch list. He was considered to be mentally odd, shy and solitary by some of his classmates. He did have an online presence which showed him to be very angry at women who did not respond to him.

Facebook told CBC News that the post from an Alek Minassian was real and was posted publicly on his profile before Facebook shut it down.

The post referred to the "Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger." Rodger was the 22-year-old California man responsible for a deadly rampage in Isla Vista, Calif., that left six people dead and a dozen people wounded. 

In a video posted ahead of that 2014 attack, Rodger raged about a number of women turning down his advances, rendering men like him "incels," a term used by some groups to mean "involuntarily celibate."

Rodger referred to men who were successful with women as "Chads" and women who turned men down as "Stacys."

The post that appeared on Minassian's Facebook page included a line that said the "incel rebellion has already begun. We will overthrow all the Chads and the Stacys."

So unless some information comes out that he was involved in terrorism this is just murder - a man angry at the world because women do not respond to him. Lots of them out there.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Where did I say that? I did say that doing exactly what you claim others do as a way to prove them wrong is pretty funny.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Well from what I am reading on Toronto Star it appears he is a disturbed individual. So I don’t think political terrorism, a mass murder. Just as bad of course. 

Rest of you carry on with your irrelevant argument.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Saw a video of his takedown...obviously, he was trying to get a 'suicide by cop', but the cop was having none of it. Now, the guy will be paraded before courts and eventually sent to jail for his cowardly act. Breaks my heart to see such senseless violence against folks. 
I can see the day, we'll have bollards on sidewalks everywhere...crazy world.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Hitch said:


> When is this madness going to end?! We must ban vans in hopes of savings thousands of lives.


Canada needs common sense van laws.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Just the military style assault vans with high capacity fuel tanks.
> We don't want to take your vans, but we must.
> It's just common sense van control.


I think it is automatic transmissions we need to ban.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Why are you making this political? Did this incident *involve a gun? No*.


That is the point.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

It was gun related. Frustrated he never gets to shoot his gun.

Self-described incels congregate mostly online, meeting in forums and message boards like Reddit and 4chan, and its offshoot site 8chan, to discuss their hopelessness with women in posts that are peppered with racist and misogynistic rants. “Chads” are incel-speak for good-looking men, who incels believe can’t be one of them. “Stacys” are the women who find “Chads” attractive.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-misogynists-praise-suspect-new-saint-n868821


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

So basically he killed a bunch of strangers because he couldn't get laid?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

HDRider said:


> It was gun related. Frustrated he never gets to shoot his gun.
> 
> Self-described incels congregate mostly online, meeting in forums and message boards like Reddit and 4chan, and its offshoot site 8chan, to discuss their hopelessness with women in posts that are peppered with racist and misogynistic rants. “Chads” are incel-speak for good-looking men, who incels believe can’t be one of them. “Stacys” are the women who find “Chads” attractive.
> 
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-misogynists-praise-suspect-new-saint-n868821


I'd guess Stacy and Chad don't spend their time crouched over a keyboard whining about not getting a little sumptin.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Irish Pixie said: ↑
> Why are you making this political? Did this incident *involve a gun? No*.


Did any mass shootings involve the NRA? No.
Why blame the tool in one instance but not the other?
(The answer is hypocrisy)


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> So I don’t think political terrorism, a mass murder.


He says differently.



keenataz said:


> Rest of you carry on with your irrelevant argument.


There's nothing "irrelevant" about the truth.
You just don't like hearing it, and you can't refute it.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Boy I hope you guys are enjoying your fun and chuckles as dozens of people are suffering up here.

Enjoy.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Did any mass shootings involve the NRA? No.
> Why blame the tool in one instance but not the other?
> (The answer is hypocrisy)


You nailed it....


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/sta...r-a-muslim-villain-after-the-van-rampage.html

_Rather than avoid speculation or pray it doesn’t turn one group against another, some people actually appear to thirst for a specific motive — to yearn for the revelation that the accused in question does in fact belong to a particular group, Emma Teitel writes._

Some should read and heed.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> Boy I hope you guys are enjoying your fun and chuckles as dozens of people are suffering up here.


The rhetoric is merely a repetition of what we hear after every shooting event.
The anti-gun crowd exploits the victims to push their agenda.

Again, you don't like hearing the truth and you can't refute it so you try to lay a guilt trip on us for mockingly doing what they do in earnest.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> There was a gun standoff and one police officer was able to take him into custody. The officer did not take a shot either.


There was no "gun standoff".
He was holding a cell phone.


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## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Cornhusker said:


> So basically he killed a bunch of strangers because he couldn't get laid?


From what i read on here sometimes there are several here that need to be on the watch list.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> Some should read and heed.


Yes, some should.
I suspect we disagree on the meaning of "some".



> *It’s hideous to think that right-wing media were hoping for a Muslim villain after the van rampage*


To pretend this incident isn't *identical* to tactics used by radical Muslims in other incidents is disingenuous.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Cornhusker said:


> So basically he killed a bunch of strangers because he couldn't get laid?



Basically - yes. Just like Elliott Rodger the California mass shooter. The one Minassian admired. But it is much more. These men are ineffective in their lives, socially awkward, incapable of normal bonding and feel impotent.and not just sexually. They are filled with frustration, hate and anger and they turn it outwards and it leads to this. 

Of all women who were the victims of homicide globally an estimated half were killed by intimate partners or family members. In the US on average three or more women are murdered each day by their boyfriends or husbands. It is 5 to 7% for women who kill their intimate partner - depending on year and country. And make of this what you will according to your different gun agendas but half the women murdered by intimate partners in the US are killed by guns and that is about 5,500 given that on average 11,000 women die each year. Men really need to stop killing women.

I know that there are a lot of men who hate women and a lot of women who hate men. I know some of these people. In many cases it is for a justifiable reason in their current experiences, background or family history - often the way they were raised or personal abuse received - but there are also a lot who develop their own brand of hatred derived from their own feelings of inadequacy.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> Men really need to stop killing women.


Women who arm themselves and learn to shoot are less often victims than those who don't.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

We recently had a local murder/suicide (rare around here).
The wife shot the husband in his sleep on Monday. On Thursday, deputies knocked on the door.
They heard a woman's voice say "Just a minute" followed by a gunshot.
The deputies entered to find 2 bodies.
So far, nobody seems to know why of it all.
They were from Denver originally, and rumor has it she wanted to go back, but I don't know if that's a reason to shoot your husband.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Not true. But perhaps some cases could be avoided. However I am not so sure it would be such a good idea to bring a gun to the breakfast table and sit quietly across from your abuser. 

You can't have a gun in your hand all the time and attacks happen all the time, everywhere, at all times of the day, in all seasons and when you are talking about intimate partner murder - well who expects to be jumped on, raped, strangled and beaten and knifed or shot while you are asleep in your shared home? Or just walking in the door.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

emdeengee said:


> Not true. But perhaps some cases could be avoided. However I am not so sure it would be such a good idea to bring a gun to the breakfast table and sit quietly across from your abuser.
> 
> You can't have a gun in your hand all the time and attacks happen all the time, everywhere, at all times of the day, in all seasons and when you are talking about intimate partner murder - well who expects to be jumped on, raped, strangled and beaten and knifed or shot while you are asleep in your shared home? Or just walking in the door.


I saw no supplied facts behind the statement either.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

keenataz said:


> Boy I hope you guys are enjoying your fun and chuckles as dozens of people are suffering up here.
> 
> Enjoy.


Maybe we should repeat it 10,000 times like you do.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

emdeengee said:


> Basically - yes. Just like Elliott Rodger the California mass shooter. The one Minassian admired. But it is much more. These men are ineffective in their lives, socially awkward, incapable of normal bonding and feel impotent.and not just sexually. They are filled with frustration, hate and anger and they turn it outwards and it leads to this.
> 
> Of all women who were the victims of homicide globally an estimated half were killed by intimate partners or family members. In the US on average three or more women are murdered each day by their boyfriends or husbands. It is 5 to 7% for women who kill their intimate partner - depending on year and country. And make of this what you will according to your different gun agendas but half the women murdered by intimate partners in the US are killed by guns and that is about 5,500 given that on average 11,000 women die each year. Men really need to stop killing women.
> 
> I know that there are a lot of men who hate women and a lot of women who hate men. I know some of these people. In many cases it is for a justifiable reason in their current experiences, background or family history - often the way they were raised or personal abuse received - but there are also a lot who develop their own brand of hatred derived from their own feelings of inadequacy.


“Men really need to stop killing women.” How about people stop killing. No need to favor one group over another. 

I suspect most people are well aware of when they are in a dangerous situation. If you have reason to be concerned for your well being or loosing your life or if you are worried about those that you are responsible for or that are dependent on you then its best to get a move on and get gone. To remain in a neighbor hood or a relationship due to a job or lack of funds shows a interesting set of values. Health, well being or life should be well above any other concerns. No one says it has to be easy. 

Loosing your well being due to a bad relationship is just stupid. 

Loosing your well being because your not paying attention or for other reasons while walking down a sidewalk is a different matter.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

"The CDC analyzed the murders of women in 18 states from 2003 to 2014, finding a total of 10,018 deaths. Of those, 55 percent were intimate partner violence-related, meaning they occurred at the hands of a former or current partner or the partner’s family or friends. In 93 percent of those cases, the culprit was a current or former romantic partner. The report also bucks the strangers-in-dark-alleys narrative common to televised crime dramas: Strangers perpetrated just 16 percent of all female homicides, fewer than acquaintances and just slightly more than parents."

"Data from earlier reports suggest a far smaller percentage of men—around 5 to 7 percent—were killed by intimate partners."

The statistics prove that many, many more women are killed by domestic violence than men. 

From: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/homicides-women/534306/


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Redlands Okie said:


> “Men really need to stop killing women.” How about people stop killing. No need to favor one group over another.
> 
> I suspect most people are well aware of when they are in a dangerous situation. If you have reason to be concerned for your well being or loosing your life or if you are worried about those that you are responsible for or that are dependent on you then its best to get a move on and get gone. To remain in a neighbor hood or a relationship due to a job or lack of funds shows a interesting set of values. Health, well being or life should be well above any other concerns. No one says it has to be easy.
> 
> ...




Sure. Everyone should stop killing. My statement that men really need to stop killing women was in regards to my post which is about the stunning number of women killed each year all over the world by their intimate male partners. This huge percentage of intimate partner homicides being women killed by men points to a very particular behaviour and it is male. So men really need to stop killing women. They apparently favour one group over another. 

But men should also feel free and be encouraged to stop killing anyone else and those women who kill should do the same.


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## Prismseed (Sep 14, 2009)

We need to ban assault males. Women should have a waiting period and perform a mandatory background check before they can have a male.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Prismseed said:


> We need to ban assault males. Women should have a waiting period and perform a mandatory background check before they can have a male.


I assume you're being flippant, but I was physically abused by my first husband. I was attacked, have had a restraining order made meaningless, had to have a police escort to and from work, and I was one of the "lucky" ones that got away relatively unscathed. I can assure you that most women don't find violence against women at all glib.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> I assume you're being flippant, but I was physically abused by my first husband. I was attacked, have had a restraining order made meaningless, had to have a police escort to and from work, and I was one of the "lucky" ones that got away relatively unscathed. I can assure you that most women don't find violence against women at all glib.


You’ve had a rough go.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Irish Pixie said:


> I assume you're being flippant, but I was physically abused by my first husband. I was attacked, have had a restraining order made meaningless, had to have a police escort to and from work, and I was one of the "lucky" ones that got away relatively unscathed. I can assure you that most women don't find violence against women at all glib.


Sorry that you've had this experience... but don't think that his happens only to women...


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