# You Gotta Lube AR's



## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Sold my AR about 6 months ago and thought I was done with poodle shooters,but lo and behold on my bday,my youngest gave me a Bushmaster Dissipator(he runs a gun counter at a major retailer and gets incredible deals).So I loaded some mags and tried it out-jam,doublefeed(which was great practice but grew tiresome quickly).Called an armorer friend and he asked me how much lube I put on it,I said very little...at which point he started calling me all sorts of ugly things and telling me kalashnikov/fal people should'nt be allowed to own fine weapons....so I lubed the heck out of it,and it runs great.......my question is in a dirty/sandy enviro-does'nt all that lube attract dirt which leads to failure??I guess I am a dinosaur:shrug:


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Ah, the old AR vs AK question. 
I love our AR, and I'm planning on another one, but............
If I was going into the field in a SHTF thing, or any place wet and dirty, I'd take the Kalashnikov every time. (as long as it's a quality made weapon, there's some junk out there)
The Kalashnikov was designed to operate in adverse conditions with minimal maintenance.
The AR platform is great, and probably more accurate at distance, but you gotta keep em clean and lubed.
I've got a Saiga in .223, and planning one in 7.62x39 and .308.
The best deal in the AK action in my opinion.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> does'nt all that lube attract dirt which leads to failure??


Yes, but it helps flush out the carbon too.

You might try some graphite or silicone lubes to see if they will do better, but with normal lubes you have to "run them wet"


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## crispin (Jun 30, 2010)

Thats why I love my AK


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

grease on the bolt carrier at the flat slides, pull the bolt so that the gas rings are centered in the two holes on the carrier, three drops of 30 uniflow motor oil in the holes to lube the bolt....the ar platform will outperform any ak and at the same time win national matches..at 600 yards. which for some of you means head shots at 600 yards...try that with any ak. my son and daughter put about 6000 rounds through two bushmasters every year. let the flames begin,,,,,but how many of you actually shoot 3000 rounds a year through your ak?


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

yes it does, that is why we field strip our AR/M4 weapons all the time ...


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## backwoodsman (Jan 21, 2010)

AR is a fine rifle/platform for target/range shooting but we have alot of family and friends going to and returning from the land of the sands and the complaint is the same with the AR platform as its been since 1966. Keep them well lubed and clean them, clean them, clean them. There was a reason 2 of my brothers carried backup handguns in southeast asia after being saddled with the M-16. When they were "in the field" alot of the time they carried captured AK variants and SKS's. Select fire M-14's were a prize to cherish and treasure. In the event of "TEOFWAWKI" I will not be carrying an AR platform weapon unless its a last resort.


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## TnTnTn (Dec 23, 2004)

I just clean my ARs after use as I would any other rifle. I don't use a large amount of lube on mine and they run perfectly. I carried one in SE Asia many years ago and never had any problems with it then either. I never saw any of our soldiers carrying SKSs or AKs when I was there. And I was out in the field with a frontline infantry company. The AK is a great military platform no doubt but if I had to choose I would pick the AR everytime. The AK is like a harley it turns ammo into noise very quickly and efficiently-but not accurately. The AR is like a Honda-it is more sophisticated and accurate. After all hitting a target is the name of the game right? TnTnTn


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

TnTnTn said:


> I just clean my ARs after use as I would any other rifle. I don't use a large amount of lube on mine and they run perfectly. I carried one in SE Asia many years ago and never had any problems with it then either. I never saw any of our soldiers carrying SKSs or AKs when I was there. And I was out in the field with a frontline infantry company. The AK is a great military platform no doubt but if I had to choose I would pick the AR everytime. The AK is like a harley it turns ammo into noise very quickly and efficiently-but not accurately. The AR is like a Honda-it is more sophisticated and accurate. After all hitting a target is the name of the game right? TnTnTn


i think its a tv and movie thing.....we shoot with hundreds of Vets from the sixties,seventies, eighties, ninties and the present war....and never once have we heard of one picking the ak over the AR(for combat shooting, lots of them were shipped stateside for collection). all these stories are most likely from the introduction of the AR along with the wrong powder and "do not clean" misinformation of the sixties. the ak is good for spraying 30 cal ammo. anyone that has seen the flex in the ak barrel(high speed video) during the gas cycle would think twice about trying to score a single hit at more than 175 yards. my daughter (at ten years of age) shot beside two fellows using aks at a 200 yard reduced, 800 agg. match. she was using an old rack grade m1 carbine and made the ak look...well i was going to say sick....but lets say that she shot 80 some percent and they shot in the 50 some percent. I like the m14 also, although its an armoriers nightmare to keep it shooting accurately, but i don't know of anyone that would want to hump a m14 and ammo in the jungle.

don;t get me wrong,, the ak is good for underbrush, close and medium quarters spray and pray. and is good for untrained shooters that might forgo cleaning of a firearm. and if i can get my hands on one for 200-300, i might purchase one to add to the collection. but right now my kids are into service rifle shooting (200, 300, 600 yard range) ...and it takes a reliable, accurate firearm to compete.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

ace admirer said:


> ...the ak is good for spraying 30 cal ammo. anyone that has seen the *flex* in the ak barrel(high speed video) during the gas cycle would think twice about trying to score a single hit at more than 175 yards....
> 
> don't get me wrong,, the ak is good for underbrush, close and medium quarters spray and pray. and is good for untrained shooters that might forgo cleaning of a firearm. and if i can get my hands on one for 200-300, i might purchase one to add to the collection. but right now my kids are into service rifle shooting (200, 300, 600 yard range) ...and it takes a reliable, accurate firearm to compete.


EXACTLY what I was thinking when the AK vs M series debates began ... but there IS flex in the AR (M series) rifle, just as with ALL rifles fired .... HEAT flexes (expands) ALL metals ... throwing off target acquisitions ... regardless ... thank science and metallurgy for trumping the debate ...


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

My daughter at age 10 was too little to hold the M2, a Marine lent her a m4 at Quantico. She was able to shoot NRA Marksman scores out to 600 yards (i have a video of her shooting x's 10's and 9's). I was amazed that the M4 would hold the X ring at 600. we (the kids) shoot 80 rounds during the day so i cannot attest to much heat movement. during the "rattle battle" events they shoot many more rapid fire rounds, but i see little movement of the barrels during this event. 

By the way, the marine came up to me as my daughter was shooting the standing event and said "i've never seen a M4 kick both ways" She was recoiling and as the bolt went into battery, the rifle was pulling her forward....."kicking" her both ways. she is shooting a full sized bushmaster with the shorter M1 stock now.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

ace admirer said:


> By the way, the marine came up to me as my daughter was shooting the standing event and said "i've never seen a M4 kick both ways" She was recoiling and as the bolt went into battery, the rifle was pulling her forward....."kicking" her both ways. she is shooting a full sized bushmaster with the shorter M2 stock now.


now that is funny, is she small?


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

slinder, tall, but has a 14 year old brother that is 6'2" 230 lbs so she knows how to play rought. shown here using a bushmaster with 6 position stock....she used this to transision from M4 to the M1 stock. she's left eye dominate, right handed. she shoots left handed.


http://s136.photobucket.com/albums/q174/acserf/rifle/?action=view&current=jessssharpshooter.mp4

the above is a video of her at 600 yard line ,Butner NC. when they (the coaches) saw that she was going to beak out from marksman to sharpshoot they ran video that shows her last four shots(an X, 2 tens and a nine) of 20. just putin it up to prove what the rifle in the right hands (in this case an 11 year old girl shootin lefthanded) can do.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

that explains it ... bet that was funny to watch ... my youngest daughter is about the same size ... I should take her out and film it just for the entertainment lol


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

there was a very interesting interview yesterday on fresh air hosted by Terry Gross, thats right public radio had a story about ak's and was actualy fairly well put together with a guy who wrote a book on the history of the AK he himself was a marine officer from 88-94 and is now a juornalist mainly in afganistan and iraq 

he points out what we already knew that the ak was widly mass produced , is the most plentiful weapon in the world around 1 for every 70 people world wide was produced by countries with state run economies that procused 70million of them and stock piles them in armories were ever they thought there would be a conflict 

they are very easy to use , east to clean and feild strip with a few large parts vs a M16 with more small parts if even 1 or 2 are lost the rifle is inoperable and because of the crome lining of the barrel and chamber AK's are very forgiving to not cleaning or poor storage , he even talks about them tossing them in canals and fishing them out later field strip and oil and they are back in action 

also he has been dating many of the rifles and tracking where they came from by roll marks , cartages, markings and serial numbers , he said much of what the talaban has are 1950s production recivers with a mismatch of internals , but stocks are almost always removed for concealability

and pointed out one of the real issues , often the magazines are filled with ammo bought and paid for by the US tax payer , but thats is a hole other issue for another post 

the AR15 i am certainly no expert , but parts available to the US consumer are far supirior to the 1963 colt rifles , some may even be superior to the issued M4 parts our troops get now 

i don't think i would spend my cash on a colt unless your into names 
there are many US manufactured lowers with better quality control and machining than colt , meaning no one else lets a large pin lower leave the quality control line , nor large pin hammer pin lowers 
meaning the tolerances are so good that the majority of US manufacture lowers and upers mate perfectly and function without fitting , this is the beauty of high speed cnc machining.

one thing the author / ex marine pointed out is that evey rifle is a compramise , wich compramise did you want to make 

you can have big hard hiting rounds , but carry fewer of them
you can have smaller lighter rounds and carry more of them , but they are less effective at long ranges 
he points out very few soilders can make consistant 600 yard shots especialy under combat conditions , and that for example in the jungle a person could rairly see more than a 100 yards so more smaller rounds were considered better because more could be carried.

what i think is interesting is that .223 /5.56 is the do all round used by entry teams , infantry , generaly every one 
i thought on this is that becasue it is generaly a compramise round you can hold lots of them in a pack or magazine , recoil is light , but projectile is also light , but moving very fast it gets genraly the desired affect for all 
entry teams using it , because of the speed get decent knock down cause by the hydro effect on the body with the penitration to get deep enough but because of the light round it slows down quick it it hits a wall 

it also carries decent enough speed out to 200 yards to get a kill on medium sized game , people fall basicaly into that meduim size also as far as the police and army are cncerned

enough with the round back to the AR vs AK the AR is like the race car/sports car of rifles lots of configurations highly adapatable platform for long or short range very precise , ergonomical the AK is like the chevette of rifles they run a long time parts are genraly intechangable with other years , they don't neccicarly corner well , drive fast , or perform any refined task but they work, there are/were lots of them and require little maintinace , easily run on whatever gas you have and start even when half barried in snow 

so if you need a gun that goes bang every time is ok out to 100 yards and can be left to sit in the coner of the barn for years at a time the AK may be the choice for you 

if you want to reach the safty without removing your hand from the stock , want to hit that woodchuck in your beans at 250 yards , and don't mind cleaning it and keeping it well maintained and of course investing more money in it up front then the AR is for you

for me when hunting reaching the safty fast is important not that i hunt with an AR or AK but to each thier own


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

ace admirer said:


> the above is a video of her at 600 yard line ,Butner NC. when they (the coaches) saw that she was going to beak out from marksman to sharpshoot they ran video that shows her last four shots(an X, 2 tens and a nine) of 20. just putin it up to prove what the rifle in the right hands (in this case an 11 year old girl shootin lefthanded) can do.


cool video share ... oldest daughters name is jessica too 

she's a south paw? she using a case deflector?


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

she's right handed, left eye dominate, shoots left handed. even takes readable notes left handed, no deflector, she says it doesnot bother her....she SHOULD use safety glasses and usually does...in the video she had shaded safety glasses, a cloud had come up and she flung the glasses off to keep her sight picture. 

one of the best junior shooters in the USA is from your state..and one of the best junior coaches for service rifle shooting is from your state. my son shot with the Arizona Team as a standin last year at Perry, GOOD team, good people, he had a blast.


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## CrashTestRanch (Jul 14, 2010)

HOT brass ain't nothing nice ... get her a case deflector  ... if anything it will improve her acquisition, one less thing to think about ... 

we do have quite a few schools here that are instructed by the best of the best ... think it's the all around great shooting weather ... no off days really ... so plenty of spent brass


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## FreightTrain (Nov 5, 2005)

ace admirer said:


> she's right handed, left eye dominate, shoots left handed. even takes readable notes left handed, no deflector, she says it doesnot bother her....she SHOULD use safety glasses and usually does...in the video she had shaded safety glasses, a cloud had come up and she flung the glasses off to keep her sight picture.
> 
> one of the best junior shooters in the USA is from your state..and one of the best junior coaches for service rifle shooting is from your state. my son shot with the Arizona Team as a standin last year at Perry, GOOD team, good people, he had a blast.


Stag Arms has nice true Leftys


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## ace admirer (Oct 5, 2005)

yeah but in service rifle shooting the ar HAS to be orginal looking (the guts of the trigger can be worked....the handguards floated, nice smooth sight adjustments but has to look like an issue AR.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

The AR is a versatile,completely changeable,weapon system...BUT the AK was designed for everyday mud,blood,and crud better never stop running type conditions...So you give up some accuracy(MAJOR reason for bad accuracy is combloc crappy ammo...I reload 7.62 x 39 with 123gr softpoints(.311)that someone sold me 10 yrs ago for 250.00,it shoots 1.5-1.75" at 100yds which is as the saying goes"good enough for government work"...I would image if you put a comparable quality barrel on an AK and a good trigger,it would shoot down to an inch,which is poor by AR standards,but doeable.I just like the reliabiltly of the system,larger caliber,and simplicity....A great addition to an AK is the Sight Tech rear sight,which brings it much closer to your eye,increasing sight radiance....a superior survival weapon...but than again a .45 is also far superior to the .9mm...


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## backwoodsman (Jan 21, 2010)

I had 4 paragraphs typed up and deleted it. No use rehashing and arguing over what if and maybe and I think etc. If you like the AR platform shoot it. If you prefer the Ak type/variants shoot them. Hopefully noone will ever have to do a blood and guts comparison. Wish ya luck with your chosen weapon/platform. I do know what I seen and was told about Southeast Asia though. AK's were used by some troops, My old Chief carried a M-14 with the "Remington Raiders" in 1965-1966 and "humped" it all over every hill and dale they came to/went thru. My uncle got the bright idea in Korea to trade his Garand for an M-2 carbine. First charge they came under he watched the .30 Carbine "puff" on the chinese quilted coats at 300 yards and got a Garand back. Lighter dont mean better when your butts on the line. Sometimes a little sweat and grunting is worth knowing a weapon goes bang at the end. Our department bought Mini-14's over the AR platform. Half the price and alot more rugged.


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