# Update: on the SHTF for us



## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

*UPDATE: September 11, 2006*

DW schedule keeps changing. One day she has to go in and work 3:45 a.m. till 2:45 pm next day 6:45 a.m. till 2:45 p.m. So far she has not had any time on the Laser machine so no opportunity to make production pay. 

*GREEN TREE* has now moved into the *Final Stage*. I talked at length with the Senior Account Controller. She was very nice and took time to explain the âfutureâ proceedings. We have three options left.
*(1)* Pay in $750 thus becoming current and keep account current. This is what GT would prefer

*(2)* Pay $250 on or before 20th of September 2006. Then Pay $250 on or before 29th of September 2006 and then $250 on or before October 15th 2006. This would cause Green Tree to Defer 2 of the missed payments and they would agree to tack them on to the end of the loan.

*(3)* If we do not do 1 or 2 then Green Tree will turn account over to legal and the loan is in *âComplete Defaultâ*. 

The SAC told me that they have a locale attorney that would file all legal paperwork and in 48 hours after turning it over to legal, I would receive a letter from Shelby Court House notifying me that I had defaulted and then with-in 48 hours the Sheriff would be out to observe as a locksmith changed the locks and a GT rep took pictures and inventoried household contents. Then GT would have the locale Horton Dealership send out a mover to take the mobile to a lot down in Atlanta they have for holding collateral until they can sell or auction it off.

Several well meaning folk have tried to tell us that we had more time, that it would require *âforeclosureâ* proceedings. *This is not the case. *When there is no land involved a mobile home loan is like a car loan. You default and the collateral is picked up. (This has been verified by two different attorneys)

NOW we can be nice and offer *âVoluntary Surrender of Collateralâ* and avoid being sued for legal fees. ALSO and this is a *Biggie* by the VSC we would *NOT BE* liable for any other feeâs or debts associated with the mobile home * because* it was in a bankruptcy action. According to the Green Tree SAC collateral in a bankruptcy action such as a car or mobile home are surrendered unless the party filing the bankruptcy keeps to the loan agreement. If not then if the party voluntarily surrenders the collateral he/she looses all equity and the collateral itself. If the party fights then they become liable for the Mortgage holders attorney fees and has to pay all back payments plus fees, penalties and their own attorney fees. 

According to the Century 21 Realtor, IF we add a window, closet, kitchen sink and bedroom, add plumbing, water and sewage lines our building would become a âcottageâ and could be considered living quarters for two adults and one child.

My brain feels like mush. I had though that DW getting a job would cause a lot of this stress and problems to go away. All it seems to be doing is making her back hurt and wearing her down while just covering the gas to go back and forth with a few bucks to put on bills. 

The *witch* at the medicade office said if DW made $525 or more GROSS per month that the medicade would be terminated. Same for the FS. I have said it a million times that the assistance programs are geared to keep the recipient down, not to foster hope, nor help the recipient to get back on their feet. 

Just thought I'd bring you guys up to speed on what is going on here.

Kenneth


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

So what are you planning on doing (if you don't mind me asking)? 

If you could pay the $750?

If you could make the first $250 payment?

If you can't make any of the payments?


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2006)

Kenneth in NC said:


> Several well meaning folk have tried to tell us that we had more time, that it would require *âforeclosureâ* proceedings. *This is not the case. *When there is no land involved a mobile home loan is like a car loan. You default and the collateral is picked up.


 That is true. My brother had a mobile home repossessed. The situation was treated exactly like a car loan.




Kenneth in NC said:


> I have said it a million times that the assistance programs are geared to keep the recipient down, not to foster hope, nor help the recipient to get back on their feet.


 Having been through the assistance nightmare myself a few times, and having helped other people through it, I can verify that is TRUE!


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## jonc (Nov 16, 2005)

A thought - I work in corporate financial services and usually if we are trying to collect from someone any payment whatsoever shows some "intent to pay" and helps to slow legal proceedings. No payment at all helps the default case build strenght, but if weekly payments are made it shows an effort, regardless how small the payments might be. Not paying anything only works against you. Even if you pay $100, it still shows an effort which at a desperate point might buy you valuable days. This might work, but I don't know the whole story. Just an idea.


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## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

Sorry to learn that things continue to be bleak for you!  I wish there was something more I could do to help you.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Just out of curiousity...
IF you could do the $750 or the three $250's, would you be able to keep the payments up in the forseeable future? That would make a big difference in the decisions you need to be making.


Also, what kind of work could you do? Office stuff, anything around a farm?
Answer a phone? Do "security" work, basically checking badges, etc. Are there any u-store-it storage facilities around there that could use desk help?
I'm ust trying to keep thinking forward....


Angie


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> Just out of curiousity...
> IF you could do the $750 or the three $250's, would you be able to keep the payments up in the forseeable future? That would make a big difference in the decisions you need to be making.


Angie the honest answer is I don't know. If DW can handle the weird hours and the constant changing job duties (she's working through a temp service) then the answer would be yes. If she can't and nothing presents itself that she can handle then the answer is no.



AngieM2 said:


> Also, what kind of work could you do? Office stuff, anything around a farm? Answer a phone? Do "security" work, basically checking badges, etc. Are there any u-store-it storage facilities around there that could use desk help?
> I'm just trying to keep thinking forward.... Angie


Angie we have one vehicle and this year we are homeschooling our daughter. 

As to office stuff probably not. 

Around the farm NO, 

Answer phone sure, 

Security work Nope applied and because of the Congestive Heart Failure was told that I would be a major risk and no insurance company is going to touch me with a 10-foot pole.

Right now my pain level is 7 so as you can see it's 3:45 a.m. and I can't sleep. 

*jonc* The SAC (Senior Account Controller) at Green Tree was adament about the only options left to us. She said she understood the twist and turns that led to this dilema but GT has new guidelines and there was only the 2 ways she could work with us. She went on to suggest that if we were giving up the collateral then make absolutely sure we contacted GT before our account was sent to legal to finalize default paperwork to avoid GT suing us for attorney and filing fees.

*MWG* Right this moment I do not know.

Kenneth


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

In other words, your wife must turn over her entire paycheck for 6 weeks or you will lose the mobile home.

I slpt on this last night, but I could come up with nothing. Excepting that every person has a boss, including the senior account manager. 

I would talk to her boss, you have nothing to lose. 

Or, sell it fast, but used mobile homes might not sell fast as they are not in hot demand like used cars are. Of course, that MIGHT work in your favor as then Green Tree would end up with a mobile home that is hard to sell, as opposed to having your cash. Cash might be more to their advantage.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I keep thinking that a $250 a month payment is so much cheaper than renting another place would likely be. Is there anyone at all you can borrow the money from? Do you get any preapproved credit card offers? I know this is not a great solution, but to save your home it would be worth it.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Now I need to go think more....

I'll try to come back to this thread later today.

Angie


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

The SAC answers to corporate. Corporate has already "suggested" throwing the loan into default. 

Out of the 13 people I have talked to at Green Tree the last 2 have been somewhat nicer and did take the time to explain GT's legal position.

Credit Cards are not a solution.

At this point GT only concern is getting Cash or collateral. Period. They know the mobile most likey won't bring more than $5-7,500 at wholesale auction. But that is no longer a consideration.

Kenneth


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Describe the little cabin structure that is on the property....

We may have to think about you getting it fixed up and letting the mobile go...exploring all possibilities...

Angie


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Can you sell the mobile on your own for enough to pay it off?


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

I have only read parts of these threads, so if I missed this, I apologize. Can I ask, what about all the money that was sent to you from folks here on HT? Is any of that left to help cover this?


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Hi Kenneth, glad you posted but sorry to hear it's such a dire situation.

My son and I lived in a small cabin (10x14) for a few months while our house was being built.

I'm with Angie - maybe your best option at this point is to get your cabin into a liveable state and allow the mobile to go on it's way. That hurts, I'm sure, but if there's a real possibility that you'll be in this position for several months (i.e. there's no event four months from now that will miraculously change everything if you can just hang on until then) ... perhaps it's best to consider that your current finances don't allow for the mobile, but you DO own the land (which is a nice big plus!).

So what if (just thinking here!) instead of putting your DW's paycheque towards GreenTree and the mobile you invested that money in the cabin to make it a cottage ...

Would you guys be able to hold out there for awhile, until you sort out what to do next?


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## BeckyW (Mar 11, 2003)

My understanding of mobile home financing is EXTREMELY limited. Know this about voluntary surrender of collateral on a car loan: The bank is NOT required to auction/sell the car for fair market value/loan value. In fact, they can sell the repossessed auto for any price they want (usually a very very low-ball offer) and then can legally come after you for the difference. So the $20000 car that you just surrendered and was auctioned for $4000, the remaining $16000 (difference between loan and auction price) will now be billed to you (and risk another judgment lien.) Since MH loans are VERY similar to car loans, I have to assume the same practices exist in that business. 

IF you can, you are better off selling the secured-loan item yourself, in this case a mobile home, for as good a price as you can get really fast (in the trade known as a "fire-sale price"), and then work out a way to pay the bank the difference. Let's say all you can get is $15K on the $20K MH loan. Owing the bank $5K is MUCH better than owing them $16K. The absolute truth is that YOU will get more money selling it yourself than voluntary surrender and letting the bank auction off to some MH sales lot. 

Just my two cents worth. Best of luck to you.
BW


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

BeckyW under normal circumstances you would be correct. In this case the mobile is under the bankruptcy curtain. Regardless that we offered to reaffirm the debt GT decided to leave it under the bk banner. SO if we surrender the mobile that's the end of it. no repercussions from GT. 

The flip of that is we have invested $25,000+ in this mobile and that's a lot to loose.

Kenneth


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Reality thoughts... thinking outloud (so to speak).

1. $750 now or $250 x 3, keep the mobile home then have 2 payments on the back end, interest getting added also... future interest not the present issue. Likely hood of being able to meet this, almost impossible. The probability of being able to make future payments - unknown, but not likely under present conditions. Conclusion, may be better to let it go back.

2. Small building, potential cottage. Stated needed closet (why not a chiffrobe or enclosed fabric/plastic hanging closet like used for clothes storage), a window - discards from others, or from Habitat left over store.
Extra room...check out the storage buildings similar to what sancraft has for when she's at her land. Connect to current small building, this can be ordered and can have the window already in it, if that's where the window is to go. It's not finished on inside, but back to Habitat for maybe something insullation wise, and something to cover wall. Both of the last could be alumnimum foil or $2 solar blankets facing out taped inside the upright boards, and then folded quilts and the "wallboard" may just be old blankets .
I'm thinking Goodwill or equivalents here. The buildling like sancrafts is a rent to own and no credit checks, a 10 x 10 for the extra bedroom should not be very much per month.

3. Sink and plumbing.... thinking sink at Habitat, free cycle etc. Plumbing, don't know how much you would be able to do. Also I bet you'd need a toilet and you said sewage lines, which leads us to the sewage hook up. BUT, you have all that already in from the mobile home, whew - thought I was going to have to think of that. So you have sewage, electricity and water already available. PVC piping isn't very much (how far would you have to get the bath/kit water and sewage to travel)? Is your land clay or rock, or easily digable? Not necessarily Kenneth, but someone (later concern).

4. How is the effecting your 12 year old daughter? Do you have family in the area that she could visit while changes are made? 

5. Even if you don't believe in it, can you get divorced to give a legal separation of funding, this will effect food stamps, housing, earned income credit, possibly your SSI, and all the government programs.

6. Have you contacted doctor and EVERY manufacturer of your meds for the special programs that they have.? I know there are programs where pharmisutical companies have some programs to make meds very little.

7. How much land do you have? I'm thinking 2.5 acres or so. How is the cabin and mobile home situated? Center, left, Right? If there is a .5 or 1 acre portion you could lease out or sell, that might help some.

8. You have internet, have you thought of signing up at WEST, as a few people on this board has so they can take orders for companies such as HSN, Office Depot, etc. That is not leaving home and making some money. You already have internet and a phone. You might have to get DSL to do this. But if you work at it you could bring home even $50 a week more than you have now.

9. Also, is there anyone that doesn't have good land, and maybe you do, that wants a garden where you could provide the land, and they could grow it and pay you in food? Sharecropping basically.

10. How much of the land is in mature trees? Any special types of wood, that could be sold off?

Conclusion at this time...
I think given what we've been told, 
that the mobile home should be returned, and use every cent to fix up cabin ASAP and move your stuff you want to keep in it. If left in mobile home, it will be gone. Get any local friends to help get that building into a cabin, check how much the extra room would be to rent...

Start planning NOW. People helping financially now, no matter how much we want to, will not fix this situation - we need to help you learn how to fish.

I'll keep thinking.

Angie


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

16x36 consisting of a 16x24 room, 10x12 room, and 6x12 bath room. It would have to be plumbed, water and sewer lines ran to it. It has no kitchen. Legally it would require a window installed in the 10x12 and a window, a closet, bedroom and sink installed. At the moment it is piled full of stuff out of the mobile home and things like a work bench and homemade shelving we put in. Bear in mind this has been our catch all - shop storage for over 8 years.

Also a HT poster pointed out that I have actually got very good service out of the 20 year shingles and need to consider the roof when thinking of moving into it. Building was built back in 1988.

Kenneth


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

How much of the necessary cabin/cottage changes are you able to make. Physically and knowledge?

Angie


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## farmergirl (Aug 2, 2005)

Kenneth,
I take it from your last post that there are building codes/ restrictions where you are? As far as I know, I could move into my chicken coop if I chose. As for plumbing, you could use a composting toilet, homemade if necessary and you could just set up a water catchment system if needbe for something immediate. What about letting the mobile go, sad I know, but would relieve so much stress for you. Then you could look around for a used travel trailer to live in for awhile. That would provide you a place to stay right away and you could probably pick one up for almost nothing if you find someone who has one that's just in the way at their place. Some are free or almost if you have a way to haul it off their land. Just thinking....


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

This may have been posted already and I missed it, but I wonder about the viability of using an old travel trailer to live in while you are building out the shed? Seems to me that while the shed has potential as living quarters, it is going to take some work and given your physical limitations and your wife working now, I wonder just how much time/energy you would have to put towards this? Particularly if it needed to be done in a rush situation. Seems like you are out of time, and anything that can buy some breathing room might be worth looking at.

I know that travel trailers are small and cramped (I lived in one for two years once), and that sometimes they too need some work. However, an old but complete trailer would at least have some of the infrastructure already there -toilet, wash basins, beds, stove, furnace, fridge etc. Sounds like you have power/water/sewer on site so you could hook the water and power to the trailer, dump the holding tanks right down your septic inlet when they are full, and/or dump the gray water holding tank out onto the property somewhere.

I also recognize that transporting an rv can be problematic if you don't have a truck, but often times you can hire someone with a pickup to make a short haul on something like this for little money.

You have been researching and using a variety of resources to help you so far, don't forget that with your wife's new work comes new social contacts within that group that may be helpful to your situation. Networking (something as simple as striking up a conversation during lunchtime) can lead to more potential resources and such. For example, there may be somebody there that would be willing to pull a trailer to your lot, or there maybe somebody there that wants to unload an old rv and would be willing to take monthly payments etc.

My point being that you need to leverage as many potential allies as you can in this journey.

Wayne


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

I want to tell you a little history about my husband and I. We have been in your place. Back in 1978 we had been living in a ONE room house that my husband and his dad built on the back corner of his property. He decided to sell his house and land so gave us 2000. for the one room. We took the 2000. Found one acre and paid down on it. We then put a tent up in the yard of some friend's place. (Keep in mind our daughter was 6 years old.) We stayed there through the summer while my husband looked for work, I worked part time, through a temporary agency. My husband finely found work out of town. We moved our tent to a lake close to where he worked, and stayed until he got a first paycheck. Then we rented a mobile home. Then a year later he lost that job. We couldn't find work there so decided to move to the one acre we bought. Moved our tent out there, no water, no elect, no sewer, didn't even have a driveway. We had to use the neighbor's drive. I found a job at a convience store. They would give me left over hot links, and bar-b-que sandwiches. We would haul water from the store in 5 gal. jugs and used the coleman stove and coleman lanterns. Just as it was getting cooler weather, a friend let us have a popup camper. It leaked terrible, the canvas was rotted. We covered it with a tarp, and made it through winter. That next spring we had saved enough to buy a school bus that had no motor in it. A friend pulled it out for us. We spent a couple weeks taking out the seats and turning it into a place to live. Man we thought we were in heaven. We lived in that old bus for 2 years, until we could get a used 12X56 two bedroom trailer. We gave 2000 for it, cost us 150 to get it moved. During the time we lived in the bus we used a cistern and had the water hauled out to us. We used a sawdust tolit and a wash tub for a bath. Doing that made me realize a person can get by with very little. If I had, had a cottage like you are talking about I would have thought I was rich.

You could empty out that cottage and stay in it while you are fixing it up. I know about your disability. My husband and I are both disabled. You just have to decide if this is going to get you down or not. I know you have a daughter, so did we. We couldn't even get foodstamps at the time, because I was making 2.50 an hour.

The stuff that you have in there, evidently you don't need because you said you have been using it for a catch all. You said you had a metal trailer, then if you really need some of the stuff go through it and sort out what is worth keeping and put it in the metal trailer and through out the rest. I would give them back the mobile home that has become nothing but a headache and start over. It can be done. I bet your daughter can help do a lot of stuff.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Thanks Ruby -- I've been reading this thread for months and at last there is a poster that thinks like I do. 

Hugs
marlene


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

I don't know exactly where you are located but if you are on your own land, what would stop you from "camping" for a while. Get a porti-poti from Wal Mart less than 100 dollars. They are a chemicle tolit and can be dumpen into your sewer line. As far as a kitchen, use a couple plastic wash basins and empty down sewer, or use as watering plants. Use a 2 burner hot plate. You have lots of posibilities with that building.

The one my husband and his father built that we lived in a couple years was only 24'X24'. Uninsulated, and instead of windows it came up 4' from the floor with plywood. Then the next 2' was screen, then plywood to the roof. Through the summer months we only had the screen. My husband had marked the 2' of plywood that was suppose to go over the screen then in winter it was screwed back on. For the roof, instead of shingles or ten, we used clear stuff like goes on the roof of a green house. That way in the winter, we would get sunlite through the roof and it helped heat the house.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

MarleneS said:


> Thanks Ruby -- I've been reading this thread for months and at last there is a poster that thinks like I do.
> 
> Hugs
> marlene


People can do a lot if they just set their mind to it. Some time it takes losing everything to set things in motion.


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## Lindafisk (Nov 17, 2004)

But if there are building codes and restrictions where they are, how can they live in the shed structure without making the improvements?


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## dennisjp (Mar 3, 2006)

Jesus Christ people, this man needs help. I've been there. I know how he feels.

Kenneth, post your mailing address on this site. I don't have much myself but I'll send a twenty toward the payments if you will post your address.

OK people. Lets jump in and give him a hand. It could be you on this limb before long.


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## dennisjp (Mar 3, 2006)

Qwispea said:


> Sorry to learn that things continue to be bleak for you!  I wish there was something more I could do to help you.


It is. You can match my twenty.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

dennisjp said:


> Jesus Christ people, this man needs help. I've been there. I know how he feels.
> 
> Kenneth, post your mailing address on this site. I don't have much myself but I'll send a twenty toward the payments if you will post your address.
> 
> OK people. Lets jump in and give him a hand. It could be you on this limb before long.



I am trying to help, by giving him some back ground on my self. I have been in worse shape finacially than he is in. Something I didn't say in my other post. My husband got so bad in 1999 he could no longer work. I was working and lifted a very heavy mattress. Messed up my back, continued work untill 2001 when I had to have back surgery. We were in a very bad place financilly. We lost our mobile home. They repoed it. Just so happened we had kept our old trailer. A 1956 Spartan, 8'X45. That is what we are living in. Just saying sometime there comes a time when you have to have a CAN DO attitude instead of CAN'T DO.

If you will go back and read the very long thread awhile back, people have sent him money. But that is a short time fix. And as far as building codes, they can be gotten around. If you don't believe it do a search for Sancraft. He lives in the country, and if he don't advertize he is living in the building he can CAMP on his own land.

Of course if he goes to the court house, they are going to tell him he cannot live there.


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

I assume the Kenneth is in Cleveland County. Here is what they are looking for in a habitable structure. I think you might have to do some upgrades, but this is only if someone turns you in. The worst part is they might get social services involved since you have a child under 18. Something to think about.

http://www.co.cleveland.nc.us/public/inspect/min housing petition.htm

Here are the restrictions on what is considered a dwelling. In short, you must be connected to water, to must be connected to hot water, must be wired, must have at least 2 outlets per room, must have heat, minimum square footage, etc.

See Chapter 3.5 Article III

http://www.municode.com/Resources/gateway.asp?pid=12207&sid=33


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## MaryNY (Oct 25, 2004)

Check out Farmmaid's post about her mobile she is giving away!

MaryNY


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I know it may sound cold hearted and cruel, but if you want to get out of this mess, and still receive some public assistance, the best thing you can do is to get a separation. The "public assistance" agencies open the floodgates when the father isn't around. I know some "separated couples" , separated at least as far as the agencies are concerned, so that they can get the medical bills taken care of. Do they have section 7 housing in the area, or vouchers for private dwellings. I know a lady in town that rents out her old home, and folks are always asking will she take sec.7 money...

At least you have the land and small building to fall back on. It's a shame you put the 25K into something you didn't own... If I had 25k, I could've fixed up a small mansion.... of course, me saying this isn't helping you any.

If it's a lost cause, get all your stuff out, and move into the cabin. As far as codes, don't ask, don't tell. A wood heater, a camp stove, and a "honeybucket" toilet don't cost much... I certainly wouldn't put another cent into the home that the banks' probably going to repossess...


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## Country Lady (Oct 2, 2003)

homebirtha said:


> I have only read parts of these threads, so if I missed this, I apologize. Can I ask, what about all the money that was sent to you from folks here on HT? Is any of that left to help cover this?


Was this question ever answered?


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

Country Lady said:


> Was this question ever answered?


No it was not answered. I had wondered also about that.


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## bare (May 10, 2002)

Please check out my post here.

http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=140492


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Ruby Sancraft is not a he she is a she.


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## Jillis (Sep 11, 2005)

Ken, could the electric, sewer and water lines of the mobile be run to the cabin?


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Im wondering of all the money sent by HT members too.

And is there a risk of Child Protective Services getting involved, if they DO move into a structure that is considered uninhabitable?


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

If you don't believe it do a search for Sancraft. He lives in the country, and if he don't advertize he is living in the building he can CAMP on his own land.

Of course if he goes to the court house, they are going to tell him he cannot live there.[/QUOTE]

Sorry I didn't make it clear, it should have read, He (Kenneth) lives in the country. I know Sancraft is a woman and a very strong woman with a CAN DO attitude.


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

*FINALE UPDATE: September 13, 2006*
*OK Not so final**

Divorce is NOT an option 

Separation is not an option. (If we separated DW would have to be charged with abandonment the state would go after her for child support and thus she would end up in jail for non-support. Plus that suggestion is insane if we canât make it on one income together How could we make it on one income and have to be living apart)


Ruby I am glad that you and your husband made it. I doubt you would have, had you both been inflicted with the exact same illnessâs that I have. Maybe were not as strong as you. The laws and rules have changed greatly since 1978.

Where did the money go? OK, 38 HT people sent gifts. $543.54 went to the utility company to keep the power on. The balance went to cover phone bill. Internet, gas for job search.

When the bills are so deep it is almost impossible to get out of the hole. The only way anyone can get out of a mess like this is a cash infusion that levels the playing field and having a cash flow (job) that will cover the regular bills after getting flush. 

A job (in our case) will cause the temporary FS and medicade to terminate. That means Iâm back to square one and once again face no meds. I contacted the manufacturers 800 patientsâ assistance lines. Until Medicade is terminated for 60 days they will not help. When I can show proof of medicade terminated, and have my doctor to fill out forms, then I âmayâ qualify for 90 days assistance. 

While âMontelâ, âOprahâ and âEllenâ thought they were helping the many thousands of people that donât have insurance by telling the world about the Patientâs assistance programs it hasnât. Because of the publicity a good many of the programs are being canceled. 

Whether you choose to believe it or not this board is my main form of social activity. I will greatly miss the banter and even the religious fights at GC. Maybe Iâm just âstupidâ but I think of a good many folks on these boards, as friends not just screen names. So when someone says to me talk to your friends, well I did.

Ruby and several others say we should have a âCAN DOâ attitude. All right hereâs my Can Do list.
 I can turn off the internet OK not a good idea
I can turn off the telephone OK not a good idea
I can stop taking Insulin, Glucovance, Norvasc, when they run out OK not a good idea, you guys win taking meds, see

I can surrender the mobile home

amended as requested
OK let's discuss it

Good friends you have my mailing address drop me a line when you can post cards are still reasonable. 
Kenneth in NC*


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Ruby said:


> If you don't believe it do a search for Sancraft. He lives in the country, and if he don't advertize he is living in the building he can CAMP on his own land.
> 
> Of course if he goes to the court house, they are going to tell him he cannot live there.


Sorry I didn't make it clear, it should have read, He (Kenneth) lives in the country. I know Sancraft is a woman and a very strong woman with a CAN DO attitude.[/QUOTE]
Sorry I was just reading with out thinking I guess.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Good luck, Kenneth.

I think that the dice has been rolled, and the last hand has been dealt. I hope you play them well.

Folks, I really hope that you money mavens can refrain from saying "you should have"...because at this point the last hand HAS been dealt. All he can do now is play his hand out. 

If you shut off the internet, go with God, Kenneth.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Kenneth - read my pm to you from last night and please answer it.

sometimes off the wall ideas help.

Angie


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

I did not want to add much to this discussion in public because I would have been on the out numbered and unpopular side. Personally with out saying to much in the way of specifics about what I feel in the matter, I think it is sad that Kenneth is going thru what he is but I feel that giving him $ is not the way to help despite his and many peoples posts to the contrary. If we could all help him by building a little cabin or something with him that would be far better, and if he was with in a few hours drive of my place I would be there to help with that. If I ever could not pay a bill promptly for any reason I would stop what ever service is sending me the bill whether it be power,city water, internet, phone or what have you.Infact I am considering stopping all those things in that list that I have so as to not have to worry about making enough $ by working for someone else to pay those bills atleast till My berries and things I will be plnting in feb are a few years old and start bringing in $.The internet as I said before today in a post is not going to be a part of my house ever as I feel it will detract from my productive homestead activities the likes of which are never complete since their are always more projects I am starting and working on, Also it will take away from the time I spend with my lovely wife and children so as much as I love spending time here with you all and learning on the net I will be doing so only from the library shortly, After the farmers markets on saturdays and when I get a chance rarely in the winter probably.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

I think perhaps writing books would be a good way to bring in some $ seems like folks really enjoyed the short story.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

I mentioned separation, not divorce. Daughter stays with spouse, you move ~into~ cabin. Only for appearances. Social Services don't want to give you anything unless you're destitute, and being a single mom is always a help.

There's an old saying, "when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging".

If heaven forbid, I found myself in your situation, I'd start moving my household goods into the cabin. Tell Green Tree to come get their property. BTW, saw on a post earlier about someone giving away a mobile home (barterboard?) Around here, there's always someone giving away a mobile home...usually run down and wore out, but still free....

If the cabin isn't an option, I'd take the family to the Social Services dept. with a blanket or two and camp out in their offices...till they told you which housing unit you were to be assigned. Don't know about your hometown, but the local towns hereabouts, even if they don't have a stop light, have public housing. Staying in one of these free rental units just might be the ticket, to allow your DW to save up enough money for a start over, or to save enough money to remodel your cabin and make it livable. Winter's coming, and if you don't have the wherewithal to heat and cook in it, esp. with the daughter, public housing would be better...

Things will work themselves out, unfortunately it probably won't be the way we'd've wanted em too...


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Actually you are in dire straights.
I would divorce the wife if that was the game we had to play to survive.Though Im not sure thats an answer,it IS an option.

Its not about what I want at this point,its desperate survival and you do what you have to do,which often means swallowing your pride and doing whatever it takes.High ideals are fine,sometimes you cant even afford to have them.

Texican gave some out of the box idea that is at least worth looking into.You need to check out what can actually be done going that route before dismissing it out of hand,we are talking lfe and death,and this isnt worth death for a government piece of paper saying you are married in the eyes of Uncle Sugar.
Not if it means your life.

Speaking for myself on that,your mileage may vary.

Sometimes the system doesnt work for folks who are desperately ill,then you have to play the system and beat them at their own game.

Ive seen enough injustice on the disability front to know sometimes it isnt right,and it isnt fair and its completely arbitrary.

You do what you have to do to survive,then you make it right later.Then you remarry if you went the divorce route.

Sorry I dont have the answers,but I do know you fight in any way you can,not curl up and die because the system is failing and you have ideals.

Flame away folks,we are talking absolute survival,and sometimes it just isnt pretty what you have to do.

Bankruptcy happens,the pieces can be picked up later.You may live in a travel trailer or a bus,I have,its doable.You may live in a trash motel in shanty town,then so be it,you take what comes and cope,you dont give up the meds and die.

When the Disability does come through,you can get another Mobile.

And the game still isnt over until they change the locks,the job money may be enough and in time.Make a something,anything payment on that first check.
Wait til the actual paperwork comes through,until then its BS threats,no more.I still dont believe they want to take the mobile back at a loss,but they need to show the loan is being serviced,there are regulations they have to meet for performing loans and THEY can be forced by them to pull your paper.

Pay them something on that first check,I would make that something 250 as they are offering.

BooBoo


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Texican,we were typing at the same time,you said it so much better than I could,and you have it right at this point.You really said it well Texican.

I like your plan,and it gives breathing room,just what they they need,the room they will breathing in may be a dump,so be it.

It will work out.

They need to learn to play the system to get it moving.They are not evil folks,they are good folks,part of why the system isnt working for them IMHO.

As someone said,the last hand has been dealt,now play it well.

BooBoo


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Wow, Kenneth, this sure is a tough spot to be in.

You are homeschooling your daughter, I remember ... is there any way she can stay with someone else for awhile (without triggering truancy charges)? Without a child on the property you may be able to 'stay under the radar' with the county that much longer.

When we lived in our unserviced shed for four months, and my son had to come home from school to light the kerosene heater (and stay in his ski pants and coat until the place warmed up) I was sometimes scared that the county would show up and charge me with being a terrible mother (I did have a backup plan but it was not something I wanted to implement unless I had to). I know if it'd just been me, nobody would've noticed or cared.

Not that I'm suggesting you break the rules, really, just that you ... bend them while you allow yourself the time to get your cabin up to their standards so that you can all live in it. 

Wish I was close enough to come help you out. I'm afraid the American social services network puzzles me completely - can't help you with any of that paperwork, but if I happen to come up with any more ideas I'll let you know!

(P.S. Angie's post with the ideas for updating your cabin had some great thoughts - is any of that workable for you guys?)


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## stars01 (Jun 24, 2006)

Kenneth, I wish the best for you and your family. 

Paula


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## KindredSpirit (Feb 16, 2006)

Kenneth, if they take the mobile home could you qualify for section 8 housing? It is for people who earn about 50% of the states median income. It is fully explained here:

http://www.affordablehousingonline.com/section8housing.asp

I know we live in a housing cooperative. We aren't in section 8 housing, we pay the full amount, but they do have section 8 here and they are maintained just as well as the townhouse we live in. If you qualify for something like that you wouldn't have maintenance and upkeep on your housing. You could just hang onto your land unimproved and your taxes would be lower. Just an idea.

I wish you and your family the best!


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Mobile home was likely a bummer deal. If I understand Kenneth correctly they have already paid $25K on it and still have ten years to go on the note at $250 or so a month, so that works out to another $30K. Were it fully paid off it might be worth a couple of K. Essentially they are renting it from GT on a rent-to-buy, with probably RTB interest rates.

Far as I know Kenneth owns the land, which I estimate to be several acres at the end of a deadend road. Don't see why he couldn't get a bank loan (first mortgage) on the land, let GT have the one they have now, and purchase a used, but liveable one with, hopefully, it be paid in full set-up on the property. Then they just have a land note and utilities (and meds). Heck, might buy back the same one from whoever GT wholesales it to.

Don't know acreage, but from what I saw at least five acres. Say land is going for $8K an acre there. That's $40K in equity. A $10K land note should allow purchasing and setting up another mobilehome.

Problem with public assistance I see if you basically have to be flat out broke (no capital) to qualify. Likely owning the land will prevent it.

Another problem I see is, as far as I know, not belonging to any religious group, whether you are a believer in their version or not. Were they to have attended some service at a large church with an outreach program on a regular basis there might have been the possibity of the church members overhauling the cottage as a group outreach program. When desperate one pays the games one has to play.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

I agree with the divorce if that will give you more help with meds or what not. Being Married in Gods eyes are what is important why worry about others or the feds?


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

By PM I was informed Kenneth has 2 1/2 acres and that banks don't like to do land loans. However, this isn't raw land, but improved with at least a cottage (for whatever it adds), cargo van box for storage, gravel drive and utilities in place. Seems like something the bank could turn over fairly quickly if the loan on which it was used for collateral was defaulted.

Problem may be more of a problem of no family member having regular employment. Working for a temporary service may not be considered as dependable income to ensure payments. Wife may have employment for a couple of weeks, then no assignments for a couple of months.

As noted above, I suspect owning the land will greatly affect ability to get some public assistance, such as housing.


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## Star In N.C. (Dec 2, 2002)

_How long does it take to get a voucher?

It varies. The Section 8 program has historically been oversubscribed and waiting lists can run into the years. In fact, many housing authorities frequently close their waiting lists and stop accepting applications because the waiting lists are so long. To find out about wait times in your area call your local public housing authority. Use the search tool above to locate the housing authority serving your area._

A friend of mine has been on the list here in NC for 6 months. Good Luck on S-8

Star


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

I am sorry Kenneth took my ideas in the wrong way. Maybe I came across too strong. I was just relating what has happened to us, and what we had to go through. Maybe the regulations here in Texas are not as strict as they where he lives.

I know they are counting on being able to live on his disability when he gets it. He said what she makes would go against his check. I can tell him now. He will not get enough to make ends meet. Not the way prices are now days. My husband and I are both on disability, and believe me, we live pay check to pay check. If our trailer wasen't paid for there is now way we could make it. We have not used our air conditioner AT ALL this summer because cannot aford to pay the electric. We turn off the water heater and only turn it on when we use the shower. I've quit using our dryer, and hand all our clothes on the line to dry.

I really think if their daughter is 12 yrs old she is old enough to do a lot of stuff there with supervision. I know Kenneth is not able to do things himself, but I'm sure he could supervise. When I was talking about a Can Do attitude I didn't mean to get rid of the stuff he said he could get rid of. In fact I think he really needs to keep the telephone especilly because they need it for her job notifications.

I will be praying for this family. I really do care what happens to them. I just think now they are at the point they feel there is no use anymore and are depressed. I do know when you feel there is no hope you cannot see thing clearly.


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## Gideon (Sep 15, 2005)

Ken, I can move anything that you can pick up(used trailer or camper)to your land and set it up for you. I have screw machines to anchor it down/etc. If worse comes to worse I have a 22 ft camper(bad floor in main section) you can borrow through the winter. You have my E address and will help anyway needed. Money is tight here also but can physically help. If you come across a real house nearby I will move it to your land for you-gratis. Best I can do my buddy,wc


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## Cashs Cowgirl (Jan 26, 2006)

Gideon, you are a good friend! I sure wish I was closer. I am not very strong, but I work hard and I would so love to help.

I hope something can be figured out for you soon. My prayers are with you and your family....


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Divorce isn't really necessary... at least here... separation is the keyword... talked with a relative earlier this evening who is 'separated' from her husband... they invited me over to eat... asked if hubby was going to be there... we got a giggle out of it... of course he was (they sleep every night in the same bed), but until the medical bills are paid, they play the 'game'... otherwise, they'd lose everything and be sleeping under the bridge...


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## KindredSpirit (Feb 16, 2006)

Ruby said:


> I am sorry Kenneth took my ideas in the wrong way. Maybe I came across too strong. I was just relating what has happened to us, and what we had to go through. Maybe the regulations here in Texas are not as strict as they where he lives.
> 
> I know they are counting on being able to live on his disability when he gets it. He said what she makes would go against his check. I can tell him now. He will not get enough to make ends meet. Not the way prices are now days. My husband and I are both on disability, and believe me, we live pay check to pay check. If our trailer wasen't paid for there is now way we could make it. We have not used our air conditioner AT ALL this summer because cannot aford to pay the electric. We turn off the water heater and only turn it on when we use the shower. I've quit using our dryer, and hand all our clothes on the line to dry.
> 
> ...


Ruby, you didn't say anything out of line. You were just trying to help.


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## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

You said in your post that divorce or separation is "out of the question"! I find that highly commendable ..and I applaud that you cherish your dedication to your wife. I have heard of people 'divorcing' for financial reasons ..but it sometimes does backfire! If you love and cherish your wife and daughter like I think you do ..even though you might lose every material thing you've ever owned ..at least you all still have each other! LOVE _can_ work miracles!

I seem to recall that some people on HT have said they make money on the internet doing surveys. Have you looked into anything like that?

Many many people have been providing you with excellent advice and suggestions ..but .. I'd love to hear your suggestions Kenneth if you have any. Is there anything that *you* can think of that people could do that might benefit you for the long term?


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Kenneth in NC said:


> *FINALE UPDATE: September 13, 2006*
> 
> *I can and will let this be my last post on this subject.*
> 
> ...


Ken has quit the thread folks...Yer wastin' time asking him 972 questions...he ain't responded since he wrote this...

JMHO, but I believe I'd quit asking him...He'll figure something out...


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Kenneth and family's situation is really no different then millions of others in the U.S.: Relative fixed expenses without depending income.

My WAG is their expenses, including Kenneth's meds, run $800 to $1,000 month - so I'll use $900 as an illustration. If only one works 40 hours week/50 weeks a year, it would require take-home pay of some $5.40 hour just to stay even with expenses. When you consider take-home pay is only about 80% of hourly pay, then it would have to be a job paying around $6.75 hour. Even then it is still living paycheck to paycheck, praying someone doesn't need hospitalization or the alternator goes out or...


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I just hope he reconsiders and comes back online and brainstorms with us. Even the ones that appear to be neigh sayers have value, as they are the ones that bring reality to strange and wonderful ideas. (I have the strange and wonderful ideas). 

If it wasn't for the medical extreme expenses and impact, then this would be a lot more "fixable". At least the way I see it.

Angie


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## teresab (May 25, 2005)

OK...maybe I'm just a dreamer but you know I keep seeing all these "get togethers" people are having in different states...Why can't we "get together" in NC and be useful. If someone is in contact with Ken can't we find out EXACTLY what he needs to make his cottage liveable...pick a date .... and do like the Amish and have an old fashion "barn raising"...so to speak?? Maybe alone we can't do much...but if a lot of us were to show up and bring things needed to make it liveable it could be done....COME ON PEOPLE...WE ARE HOMESTEADERS!! Maybe those that live too far away could contribute durable goods or money or gift cards to lowes or home depot to purchase things needed. Just a wild idea and time is a wasting...most of our gardens are done for the year....lets pick a date in October and go!! What do you think??


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Angie, I agree!

On the flip side, he WOULD be on edge right now. Anybody would be. I wish him well.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

It would have to be soon. The way I understnad it from the posts and talking with him, Oct 10th is when legal gets started putting new locks on the doors....

Angie


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## teresab (May 25, 2005)

We can get the cottage liveable for the winter and while we are down there someone with a video camera could tape him and nominate him for Extreme home makeover.....


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2006)

teresab said:


> while we are down there someone with a video camera could tape him and nominate him for Extreme home makeover.....


 Good idea!!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I think that's neat...idea.

HOw fast can you MOVE on this idea?

Angie


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## Snowdancer (Sep 23, 2002)

Doing a project to renovate the cabin sounds like fun. One question; is it a for sure thing that Ken & family would want the cabin renovated?

Before people make plans, someone who's in touch with Ken might want to find out if there's been any other options they're pursuing such as other housing. :help: 

It wouldn't be good for everyone to take a few days of vacation only to find out that the family has decided to move or something. 

Depending when it is; I might be able to help out too.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I wonder if Ken would want to move elsewhere if it were an option and someone wanted to buy them out of their current place.

That could be one of those off the wall options...

Angie


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> I wonder if Ken would want to move elsewhere if it were an option and someone wanted to buy them out of their current place.
> 
> That could be one of those off the wall options...
> 
> Angie


Angie that would be a good solution if someone was able to pay cash. Although some on here have scared DW with the land prices they have posted being the norm in their area.

Just FYI I took meds, phone and internet will stay on as long as we can keep it. 

Kenneth


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## Snowdancer (Sep 23, 2002)

Kenneth, I don't know what you used to teach but I took some online for enjoyment classes a while back. So I just checked and there's a number of places that are looking for online instructors and the link below has a list of areas that they're looking for instructors.
http://www.ed2go.com/teach.html

I know this may not help your immediate situation but it could help you with ongoing expenses such as your meds if it works out.  From what it says; you can teach from your home using your computer and e-mail.

I have a few other places with similar online classes for self improvement or enrichment that use independant instructors. If you'd like a list of sites I'd be glad to pm them to you.  

Good luck.


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## Aintlifegrand (Jun 3, 2005)

Ya'll let me know if this is a possibility and although I am too far to help physically, i would love to send a lowe's or Depot Gift card for building materials. I will watch this site to keep up. If this is decided to be done, someone who is going ,please pm me so I can help.


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## hunter63 (Jan 4, 2005)

Follow-up on a "off the wall idea".

If anyone is close by, maybe you can try this:
http://abc.go.com/primetime/xtremehome/casting.html


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## HeavenHelpMe (Apr 28, 2006)

Just an aside about the Extreme Makeover idea. There is a lady in our area who was fortunate enough to be chosen for the show.Well, they built her a lovely home and set her up very nicely except........her property taxes. 

She has now been forced to sell the home just a year later because she can't keep up her taxes. It's very sad, but it's the one thing they sort of don't tell you about that show. She can't work, and she has 2 boys that are still in public school. The show comes in and builds half million dollar homes and then leaves them to try to manage from there. It's a cruel joke. :shrug:


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2006)

HeavenHelpMe said:


> Just an aside about the Extreme Makeover idea. There is a lady in our area who was fortunate enough to be chosen for the show.Well, they built her a lovely home and set her up very nicely except........her property taxes.
> 
> She has now been forced to sell the home just a year later because she can't keep up her taxes. It's very sad, but it's the one thing they sort of don't tell you about that show. She can't work, and she has 2 boys that are still in public school. The show comes in and builds half million dollar homes and then leaves them to try to manage from there. It's a cruel joke. :shrug:


 I've wondered about that. I see them building these fabulous homes for some really poor people, and I've wondered about the property taxes.

But hey, sell it for a high price and then use the money to buy something you can afford. It could still be a good deal.


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

And if you read the "FINE" print extrememakeover has the right to use your home without notice for any unsprecified advertising shots, etc. Read the contract over a while back when a lady from the community was trying to get them to come out. Looked like not to good a deal. And taxes are a consideration.

Kenneth


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

Got the* NOTICE OF DEFAULT* in the mail. Came Certified and I had to sign for it. It says right on it that my account is *"Post Bankruptcy Only: No Reaffirmation Signed"* That may be a blessing in disguise. At least I have it in writing.

Now there ready to wave some fees and take $506.28 to bring me current or they'll take $8,987.61 and call loan paid in full. 

At bottom it says were not trying to collect debt just notifying you that creditor may exercise its rights under NC law and reposses collateral.

*KY Guest* You must have seen that in my profile. Guess I should have put Dad teaching daughter in homeschool.

In my past I have had my own business, invented several products, served as president of a small marketing company, worked in product development with-in the plastics industry and back in high school worked at a basket shop cutting bottoms on a old B&D bottom cutter.

No teaching credentials, no colllege sheepskin other than a 1-Yr. Certificate in Marketing.

I'll look over the link you sent. Maybe it will spark some ideas. 

Kenneth


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Kenneth:

You have been made what I consider to be an extremely good offer, that being a potential group effort to rehab the cottage to bring it up to code and liveable. However, it requires a decision on your part, essentially right now, on trying to keep the trailer or letting it go.

Personally I am not willing to donate further towards your expenses; however, I would towards a building fund which was managed by a third party and with the understanding the funds would be used towards the cottage only. Anyone want to volunteer to be treasurer?

Letting the trailer go immediately cuts your annual expenses by about $3000, plus likely utilities in the cottage may be a bit less. You still have the trailer spot should your finances allow you to purchase an old, but still liveable, trailer sometime in the future.

I didn't get much of a look at the cottage while there, but suspect it needs insulation in walls and ceilings, and perhaps even under the floor (or at least the underneath be walled off from outside winter air. May require an extensive rewriting for 220v for range and hot water heater. Would require complete bathroom (commode, shower and sink) and kitchen (cabinets, counter and sink). Cabinets are expensive, but you could live with framed opened faced shelves for now anyway. Plywood doors may not be pretty, but they work and I have hinges I can donate. Closet would be relatively easy to build with a pull across sheet for a door. Window is also required.

If there is a Habitat for Humanity recycling center in Kings Mtn. or Charlotte or such most of the above might be picked up there fairly quickly.

On the roof, lots of folks seem to be going with metal roofing over shingles now, but that would seem to be a low priority.

To work inside it would essentially require everything now in it be moved to your cargo box, plus whatever you remove from the trailer. Ideally the rehab would be complete before they come to change the locks so your furniture could be moved directly from the trailer to the cottage.

Would also require someone with home building experience to step up to be construction foreman.

Kenneth, it is time to make a decision!


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## sancraft (Jun 7, 2002)

Ken, I'm so broke I can't change my mind. My bills are backed up to the roof. But I'm sending at least $50.00 on Friday. I'm already behind. They can wait a little longer. I'm not looking at being outdoors just yet. Come on people. We have to help him. $250. is not that much money. Hey even $750. isn't that much. Ken, I'll commit to sending another $40.00 in 2 weeks when I get paid.

If you decide to renovate the cottage, I can put that money on a Lowe's or Home Depot or Visa Cash card and send it to you. I don't think I can afford the gas to drive up, but if someone is coming through the Athens-Augusta area of GA that we could tag a ride with, we can come up for a weekend of hard work.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Frankly nothing short of paying off the trailer loan is going to help his situation, and even then the trailer likely isn't even worth the payoff.

If his bills are caught up in all likelihood, IMHO, three months from now they will be in the same position as they are now.

Remember his wife is the only wage earner and then she doesn't really have a job. When you work through a temporary employment agency you are, just that, a temporary worker. Job might last through the end of the week, for a couple of months, but in all likelihood not for any length of time or the company would hire an employee of their own otherwise. I know folks who work through temporary employment agencies. They sometimes go weeks and even months between placements.

Again, IMHO, a major change in their living situation is their own viable, short-term, at least solution. Giving up the trailer, as noted earlier, reduces their annual expenses by at least $3,000. Nothing to sneeze at.


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## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

Ken S, you mentioned rewiring for 220. Does Kenneth or anyone from that area know: Is this area of NC one that requires a licensed electrician to do the wiring? It's just something to know before starting a construction project.

The same question regarding plumbing. I lived in a very remote rural area but the darn rules stated I needed both a licensed plumber & electrician when doing the improvements in a cabin. :grump:


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

Just wanted to pop in and say I'm keeping up with the adventure ... Kenneth, you and your family are being very brave through all this and I'm impressed!

Hang in there, I hope you find a solution!


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

I dont know all the details but what about SSI? That gives automatic medicaid, for disabled people. What about disability?


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Arkie1 said:


> Ken S, you mentioned rewiring for 220. Does Kenneth or anyone from that area know: Is this area of NC one that requires a licensed electrician to do the wiring? It's just something to know before starting a construction project.
> 
> The same question regarding plumbing. I lived in a very remote rural area but the darn rules stated I needed both a licensed plumber & electrician when doing the improvements in a cabin. :grump:


To be totally legal, you should pull building permits on plumbing and electrical. This costs about $100 bucks a piece. And yes, they have to be licensed. This is if you want to be legal...


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Actually if there is not already a live feed to the cottage the power company will not turn it on without a permit....


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## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

MWG said:


> Actually if there is not already a live feed to the cottage the power company will not turn it on without a permit....


I was just getting ready to ask that question.  I was concerned since the Electric Coop in my case wouldn't run power without all the forms & permits.
They also required you to have an Dept of Health approved septic system as well before turning on power. :help:


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## teresab (May 25, 2005)

I agree with Ken Scharabok. Before any kind of thoughts can be put into action Ken in NC must make a decision on what he wants to do. Once that decision is made then ideas can procede....but also I think it only fair that Ken now for sure there are people willing to help. I live in NW Pennsylvania but I and I'm sure DH (haven't had a chance to talk to him about this) would be committed to coming down for a weekend or possible 3 day weekend. We have no special skills but can swing a hammer,paint or what ever. We do have a large trailer which could haul things which might need hauled. If our help would not be needed we would be committed to donating a Lowes/HOmeDepot card to the person(s) in charge. I think the big thing is if Ken would decide to go this way would would definately need a licensed contractor in the picture...is there anyone here that is qualified to do the work and would be willing to donate time and energy? Come on people...pay it forward !!


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## MaryNY (Oct 25, 2004)

Okay, did any of you see Gideon's post offering to lend Ken and family a 22 ft. travel trailer for the winter?!! (What a nice thing to do!!) BUT that might be a bit cramped for a whole winter, BUT what about putting the travel trailer right up next to and connect it by the doorway of the trailer to the "cottage" -- might have to cut another doorway in the cottage! The drawback to the cottage is that it has not heat, electric or plumbing! I bet the trailer does!!!!! That way there could be few complaints about the "cottage" not having those facilities. In addition, there should be a heater in the camper, something to cook on, and a toilet. Now they probaby will have to think up some way for the toilet to be connect to their septic, but I expect some well-hidden hose/pipe stuff would do the trick! This idea is something I saw in TMEN years ago. I checked for the article and here it is:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/library/1981_July_August/Bunzer_s_RV_Chalet

[I edited this URL because I was told it didn't work -- and it didn't work properly in any event. If you can't make it work, go to the TMEN website and put "RV Chalet" into the website search engine at the upper right corner.]

There are a couple of more articles about similar setups on TMEN's website, so I am not so very crazy . . . am I?!!! This would save the crew of volunteers (doesn't Teresab absolutely ROCK?!) a whole bunch of work. They would just need to get Gideon's trailer on there and get both the trailer and the cottage set up at the most appropriate spot, make a connecting doorway between them -- making sure they use a ramp if there is a difference in level rather than stairs so it will be easier for Ken to get to the kitchen/bathroom areas -- find some way to hook up the electric to the trailer and extend it to the cottage (maybe the trailer even has a generator?!), and figure out how to either empty the potty thing in the trailer or to hook up to the septic. A LOT easier than trying to wire and plumb the cottage - in my opinion -- and a lot more do-able in a weekend.

I am in for sending a contribution or a Home Depot card or whatever -- I soooooooooooooooooo wish I could go down there to help out!! I just can't do it! If I figure out a way, though, I'll be there!!

Anyway, I had this idea and it was suggested I share it on this thread. Hope it inspires someone else or helps out or something.

MaryNY


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Since we are throwing out ideas....

Maybe you could stay at your mother in laws until you could get back on your feet?

Or you could sell your land outright, take that money and buy something that could be located on the back of her property (if she would let you)? I know it is in a nearby town, but you weren't against relocation...


Just some additional thoughts...


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## Burbsteader (Aug 6, 2002)

I was not around much in August due to my father's death, so I missed Ken's thread in August about his ongoing financial crisis.
After reading both threads, I am just bowled away yet again by the people on these boards. You are awesome. Really.
I think it is such a strong testament to the character of the HT folks the way they have rallied the troops. 

I really think the cottage and esp. the trailer/cottage combo idea is a really good idea. 

You all do realize that he still owes thousands on the mobile, right? 

Unless enough of you are willing to set aside money every month to make sure his mortgage gets paid, there is no way to guarantee that his DW will make enough to cover expenses and they will be forever in SHTF mode. 

Of course, I'm sure Ken would never expect you all to actually set up a fund to pay his mortgage to the tune of $16,000. 

Would it not be better to get his family situated in a way that they can get out from under the heavy burden they have now? 

Everyone's generosity is absolutely heartwarming. But unless the money is going towards a long term realistic solution, it will only prolong his family's agony. 
I cannot in good conscience send money I need for my family's expenses for a short term 'fix' that won't actually fix anything. (paying a mortgage on a place he sadly cannot afford).

Gideon is offering a trailer. The cottage can be refurbished. I suspect many homesteaders on this site have extra building materials "just in case". I'm only on a double lot and even I have a few "just in case" things myself! LOL

If I weren't so far away, I'd be willing to haul my supplies over too. But I'd be willing to try to come up with a bit to add to a contstruction fund that would be a real solution.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2006)

Gideon said:


> Ken, I can move anything that you can pick up(used trailer or camper)to your land and set it up for you. I have screw machines to anchor it down/etc. If worse comes to worse I have a 22 ft camper(bad floor in main section) you can borrow through the winter. You have my E address and will help anyway needed. Money is tight here also but can physically help. If you come across a real house nearby I will move it to your land for you-gratis. Best I can do my buddy,wc


Here's the trailor offer. How about it, Kenneth?


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

One side aspect of the RV & cottage combo is it reduces potential liability of those contributing the labor and/or materials. Say rewiring wasn't done properly and it causes a fire resulting in injury or death. One might say Kenneth and/or family would not sue, but I have heard enough horror stories along those lines. (And signed waivers of liability usually aren't worth the paper they are written on.)

With the TV & cottage it simplifies potential liability issues and allows Kenneth and family to rehab cottage of bit at a time. This month's project is to find and purchased a used shower stall. Next month a used commode. Next month a used sink/cabinet combo. Next month pays to run septic and water lines to cottage. Next month a licensed contractor to hook up the bath. Same gets done for kitchen and one window.

Thus, weekend project might be to move contents of cottage to cargo box and get a living room in the cottage ready. I personally don't see the need to connect RV to cottage. Ramp with railing though is an excellent idea.

Bite off rehab a bit at a time and a cottage eventually up to code probably adds more to property value than cost of upgrade.

God helps those who help themselves.


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## kitty32_z8 (Jun 17, 2003)

Kenneth. You might want to check out freecycle.org and craigslist for free materials and a used trailer for the time being.


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## teresab (May 25, 2005)

Great Idea MaryNY. This is what it's all about..putting our heads together and helping each other out. The travel trailer/cottage would work and again it's all about baby steps. OK...have some extra money..purchase x, next month y, no extra money this month that's OK we have a roof over our heads and that's the most important thing.


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

I thought I read something in one of the posts that the keys would be changed on the mobile on October 10th? Is that correct? If it is that would be the drop dead date... which is only 25 calendar days (18 business days) from today Sept.14th.

I don't want to discount at all peoples stated desire to help as far as refurbishing the cottage, home depot gift certs, habitat humanity, home makeover etc. I think all the outpouring of ideas and offers to help from this community is simply incredible, and may very well be highly beneficial as Ken progress through this journey. But I think for the here and now, decisions need to be made and action taken within the next couple days so that Ken and his family will at least have a roof over their head in 25 days. 

I agree with Ken S. that the only realistic pressure relief is to let them take back the mobile (as hard as that may be). And, I still maintain that a used RV is the way to go in this situation. Again, one of the big benefits of an RV is it has much of the needed infrastructure already present - toilet, stove, heat, bed etc. As mentioned earlier one of the biggest drawbacks of using an RV in this type of situation is just getting the thing transported to your property. You have an offer on the board right now to help with that.

You already have the utilities on the property now that could be hooked up to the rv (that's huge in and of itself). The RV will be small and cramped, and probably not too pretty, but at least it will be a roof over the families head, and most importantly provide some breathing room for the immediate crisis.

25 days sounds like a lot when we are all sitting comfortably behind our computers typing messages about this situation, but believe me it will be gone in a flash. While I'm well aware of the power of teamwork (if a group decides to rebuild the cottage), I also know that things very seldom get completed as fast as planned. If I understand the situation correctly there are literally precious few days left to act?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Wayne02 said:


> Again, one of the big benefits of an RV is it has much of the needed infrastructure already present - toilet, stove, heat, bed etc. As mentioned earlier one of the biggest drawbacks of using an RV in this type of situation is just getting the thing transported to your property. You have an offer on the board right now to help with that.
> 
> You already have the utilities on the property now that could be hooked up to the rv (that's huge in and of itself). The RV will be small and cramped, and probably not too pretty,


Ya'll hit on a gem of an idea.

RV has all the utilities.
Cabin has extra space.
Ken should have all the hookups there,may need to move em around.

Ive seen these very things but cant find a link.
I will look further....

What folks do is build a cabin with a 'porch' on it,under the carport/porch you park the rv,3-4 feet between the 2 Rv and cabin.Porch protects the rv roof,and keeps you dry moving between the two.

You get lots of extra space with the cabin that has no utilities of any kind.Use your imagination on lighting/heating the cabin,just be safe.

Up to Ken if he wants to try this,or if an RV is legal to live in on his property.

Is he private or is he out in the open to prying eyes?

BooBoo


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

BooBoo:

He is the last lot on a dead end road. It was getting dark or even night when I arrived but I suspect current trailer cannot be seen well from road. Light woods separate him a good bit from a mobile home park in back. One side is fields/woods (SC actually as his lot is right on the border). Other side I don't know, but doubt anything close.

I would consider it very private.


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## Burbsteader (Aug 6, 2002)

A point to remember too is that with an RV or travel trailer is that he can now say that he is 'camping'. Which should be perfectly legal on his own land, esp. if they can't find permanent hookups straight to the RV. 

So that buys him some time.


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## boxwoods (Oct 6, 2003)

If the credit company picks up the trailer, it would be an easy hookup to septic, and electric if they have a temp pole with shutoff by the trailer. Just plug the camper in. run hose to septic. Run water line to a pump house and then to camper. Move the shed over to the front of camper as a breezway and storage.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Boxwoods: If the shed you are thinking of is the cargo box, it is probably a 50 or so footer sitting on the ground about 150' from the trailer. Not something which is going to be easily moved. I was in it and there is (or was at that time) still lots of storage space in it. Kenneth mentioned a leak(s), but that might be patchable.

There is a small porch/deck at main door to trailer. Cottage sits maybe 25' from the steps to it.


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## MaryNY (Oct 25, 2004)

The reason I suggested marrying the trailer and cottage together is because in the winter they would freeze their tooshies off traveling from the cottage to the trailer on a potty trip during the night. Also, if they are joined and there is a heater of some sort in the trailer they can heat the cabin -- at least partially -- with the trailer heater. What I'm thinking is to use the trailer for kitchen and bathroom and source of water and toilet facilities -- and maybe storage and a bedroom. And, use the cottage for bedroom(s) and living room and eating area -- maybe make a "panty/storage area" out of the bathroom that isn't plumbed.

Anyway, they aren't so far south that they won't see snow or freezing temperatures during the winter, so that's something to keep in mind. Oh, how do I know? I lived down there - just west of where Ken and family are -- a while back.

Oh, and someone mentioned a fire or other disaster -- the volunteer crew might want to be sure to install both a smoke detector and a carbon dioxide detector -- and a fire extinguisher might not be a bad idea either. Oh, and I have some stuff around here like door knobs and other hardware and some other "building" stuff that I might be able to ship down there ahead of the construction crew!

MaryNY


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

I don't think you are allowed (legally) to live in an RV where he lives.

Section 3.5-28 Compliance with codes.

http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=12207&sid=33


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

MWG said:


> I don't think you are allowed (legally) to live in an RV where he lives.
> 
> Section 3.5-28 Compliance with codes.
> 
> http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=12207&sid=33


I won't tell on him if you won't


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## boxwoods (Oct 6, 2003)

I guess the first thing to do is find out what the town is going to let him do even temporarily. He could always tell them he is going to build something in the spring. He just doesn't know what yet.  

Like someone said, I can't see how they get out of this mess anytime soon without letting the trailer go back to whoever. The income is just not there to support it.


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## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

I don't think it's so much a neighbor or enemy turning him in. When they pull that mobile, the electric company will be involved and they'll notify the authorities if power is switched to another building. :Bawling: 

At least that's what they did where I moved from, maybe NC's electric companies are less in the pocket of the county officials. :help:


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## MaryNY (Oct 25, 2004)

MWG said:


> I don't think you are allowed (legally) to live in an RV where he lives.
> 
> Section 3.5-28 Compliance with codes.
> 
> http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=12207&sid=33


Well -- if they hook the two together, they'll technically only be cooking and pottying in the RV -- not "living" -- more room in the "cottage" so they'll be doin' their "living" in there! Wonder what bureaucratic hairs they'll have to split to get around that?!! Probably by the time they figure it out, it'll be spring anyway!! hehe

MaryNY


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## boxwoods (Oct 6, 2003)

I think most mobils are hooked to a pole with a meter and main breaker on the pole. In that case, just turn off breaker and remove the wire going to mobil. Most don't run straight in to mobil because of height. Up here anyway.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I have an ~14 x 65 inhabitable mobile home that he can have provided he can get it moved. The MH is located about 20 miles north of I-40 and I-77 intersection in North Carolina. Let the mortgaged home go and move the replacement in and keep closed mouthed.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Kenneth:

Quickly say BINGO. Manna from heaven just fell.

There is already an offer on the table to move such and it is within the same state. You live close to I-85 so there wouldn't be much secondary road travel.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

agmantoo said:


> I have an ~14 x 65 inhabitable mobile home that he can have provided he can get it moved. The MH is located about 20 miles north of I-40 and I-77 intersection in North Carolina. Let the mortgaged home go and move the replacement in and keep closed mouthed.


 There ya go. Some of you volunteers can move that ASAP. He can move his stuff from the current mobile into the other one, and turn in the one that is financially draining him.


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## cindyc (Nov 12, 2005)

Wonderful!


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

ladycat said:


> I won't tell on him if you won't


I won't tell either, but I think it is a VERY dangerous game to play when that is your only residence.

Since he home schools, the state can drop in at any time to check his record keeping. From what I read, they do this at least once a year (I only read this, no proof). So when they pull up to check his home schooling records and see that they are violating all the building and zoning codes, they loose their house and possibly their child. 

Were it me, I would not go this route. Ken and his wife have lots of family in the area. I would try them for a small loan (unless they won't lend them any money due to many various reasons) and get the payments up to date on the trailer.

Ken needs to get a job. If that means that his daughter needs to attend public school for a year then so be it. If their payment is $250 a month then that is less that $10 a day. He might could find something to do for a cash payment so that his income isn't reported. Even at $5 an hour, that is working only 2 hours a day. His wife can make the money for the rest of the utilities and food.

This is my suggestion to get out of this mess. It is great that everyone is sending money, but he will be in the same situation in a couple of months. He needs to figure out how to make it on his own.

No need to bring a trailer from PA. If you guys decide to renovate his cottage I have a large trailer and will be willing to help. I have made a personal decision not to give money, but I will donate time and resourses to rebuilding the cottage if that is the way KENNETH decides to go, IF a licensed person is involved (I will not be sued while helping others). However, please keep in mind that paying off the note on the trailer may be cheaper by the time you throw in materials, building permits, and inspections. It sounds like this "cottage" needs a major overhaul (interior, plumbing, electrical, a roof so that he isn't in another mess in a couple years, etc.)

Some things to think about. Hate to sound negative, but sometimes the reality sucks. I agree with Ken S... Kenneth needs to make a decision quickly. The ball is in his court.


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

agmantoo said:


> I have an ~14 x 65 inhabitable mobile home that he can have provided he can get it moved. The MH is located about 20 miles north of I-40 and I-77 intersection in North Carolina. Let the mortgaged home go and move the replacement in and keep closed mouthed.


How much does it cost to move one of these? 

Just curious. I looked into moving a house and it was about 40K, I know it is a little larger, but it was a shorter distance. I think Ken said that he only owed 8K on his trailer...


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

MWG said:


> Ken needs to get a job.


 How's he going to do that when he can't even walk to the mailbox and back?

What he needs is disability.


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## MaryNY (Oct 25, 2004)

You rock too, Agmantoo!! That's a terrific offer!

I think Teresab, Agmantoo, Farmmaid and Gideon should be running the country!! LOL

MaryNY


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

$8K is the current balance due. With remaining payments it is a couple of times that.

This trailer isn't in PA, but in NC. From map I would put it at about 160 miles. Interstate highway for probably 90-95% of route. South on I-77 to Charlotte and east on I-85 to Kings Mountain. Kenneth lives a couple of miles off I-85.

With his gone, replacement might be moved onto same foot print.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

The last quote I had on moving a mobile home was about $1200 to $1500 to take down, put wheels on, move in metro area (10-30 miles roughly), and put back up on blocks. Not re-connecting electricity or water, sewage. But that is a more approachable fix.

Angie


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## MaryNY (Oct 25, 2004)

ladycat said:


> How's he going to do that when he can't even walk to the mailbox and back?
> 
> What he needs is disability.



He can't walk from the bathroom down the hall to the livingroom or back. Congestive Heart Failure is bad enought, but it's complicated by really really bad diabetes. So if you all know of a job that he can do from a chair in his living room or better yet from bed that only involves using his brain to think, please post it or PM him what it is. I've seen some teaching on the internet suggestions that looked like they might be something of interest -- but who knows how much on the up and up those might be . . . ya never know!

As for getting disability -- he has posted that he has an attorney trying to get it for him and that he isn't really qualified for it for various reasons -- I have lived in NC and worked for attorneys there and know of one case where there was a person who was just as sick and it took him five years or more to finally have a hearing and get benefits and HE had one of the best lawyers in the state, I know, because I worked for that lawyer! So I think Ken said he's been trying for two years -- so he's probably going to have to wait at least three more before the lawyers get the red tape untangled and he starts getting any benefits . . .

In the meantime, we have the problem at hand and many, many generous offers of help. So it's time for Ken and his family to decide exactly what they want to do, or if they want us to just pack up our good intentions and steal off into the night and tend to our own homesteading!

MaryNY


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

MWG said:


> I don't think you are allowed (legally) to live in an RV where he lives.
> 
> Section 3.5-28 Compliance with codes.
> 
> http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=12207&sid=33


Temporary housing. Any tent, trailer or other structure used for human shelter which is designed to be transportable and which is not attached to the ground, to another structure, or to any utilities system on the same premises for more than thirty (30) consecutive days. 
-----------------------------------------

So,if it had utilities it would be legal?

BooBoo


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Ken Scharabok said:


> $8K is the current balance due. With remaining payments it is a couple of times that.
> 
> This trailer isn't in PA, but in NC. From map I would put it at about 160 miles. Interstate highway for probably 90-95% of route. South on I-77 to Charlotte and east on I-85 to Kings Mountain. Kenneth lives a couple of miles off I-85.
> 
> With his gone, replacement might be moved onto same foot print.


So what we need is a trucker with a hitch to tow Agmans mobile?Or is the only answer a professional?

BooBoo


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

MaryNY said:


> He can't walk from the bathroom down the hall to the livingroom or back. Congestive Heart Failure is bad enought, but it's complicated by really really bad diabetes. So if you all know of a job that he can do from a chair in his living room or better yet from bed that only involves using his brain to think, please post it or PM him what it is.


 I know *exactly* what kind of shape a person is in who has CHF and diabetes, and to suggest that he get a job is ludicrous. There is no way he can do any kind of work at all. Not even for an hour or two a day.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

mightybooboo said:


> So what we need is a trucker with a hitch to tow Agmans mobile?Or is the only answer a professional?
> 
> BooBoo


 As far as I know, anyone with a truck big enough to haul it can do so without any sort of permit. You do have to have a wide load sign on it.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

The mobile home is still setup. Water, sewer, electrical, tie downs, underpinning, A/C still connected. I am unsure if the axle is still under the MH. 
This home passed code in one of the more stringent counties when it was setup by a single man on his parents farm. Some minor improvements may be necessary on the inside but it is liveable as is. The home will have to be made road worthy by others as I am in the busiest part of the year with my farm operation and other obligations.


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## Tater'sPa (Jun 27, 2002)

Gideon said:


> Ken, I can move anything that you can pick up(used trailer or camper)to your land and set it up for you. I have screw machines to anchor it down/etc. If worse comes to worse I have a 22 ft camper(bad floor in main section) you can borrow through the winter. You have my E address and will help anyway needed. Money is tight here also but can physically help. If you come across a real house nearby I will move it to your land for you-gratis. Best I can do my buddy,wc


I'd be more than happy to lend a hand and I'm not to far from Kings Mountain area. I've had a little bit of experience with setting a home or two.
Just give a shout.
Bill


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## MaryNY (Oct 25, 2004)

ladycat said:


> I know *exactly* what kind of shape a person is in who has CHF and diabetes, and to suggest that he get a job is ludicrous. There is no way he can do any kind of work at all. Not even for an hour or two a day.


My point exactly!

MaryNY


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## Tater'sPa (Jun 27, 2002)

agmantoo said:


> The mobile home is still setup. Water, sewer, electrical, tie downs, underpinning, A/C still connected. I am unsure if the axle is still under the MH.
> This home passed code in one of the more stringent counties when it was setup by a single man on his parents farm. Some minor improvements may be necessary on the inside but it is liveable as is. The home will have to be made road worthy by others as I am in the busiest part of the year with my farm operation and other obligations.


If I can get away from here during the week I can help to get it ready for the road. Disconecting utilities/underpinning and what nots.
Where about is the trailer?


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## Tater Farm (Dec 7, 2005)

Just tuned in... Agmantoo is donating a trailor, Gideon will move it for free and Tater'sPa will help him move it to Kenneth's site! So --- where's Kenneth? The suspense is killing me!!! :dance:


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

ladycat said:


> I know *exactly* what kind of shape a person is in who has CHF and diabetes, and to suggest that he get a job is ludicrous. There is no way he can do any kind of work at all. Not even for an hour or two a day.


BS!

There are plenty of people that have jobs and can not get off of their couches. Stephen Hawkins is a good example. He did it. I knew a person that couldn't get out of bed but made ends meet. She typed legal hearings (or something like that) from recordings that were mailed to her house. Ken can type can't he? Medical doctors need all their notes typed. The lady 
<spelling corrected> I knew sent all the reports back via e-mail.

He really has only two choices. He can live or die. I agree he needs to be on disability if he is in that condition. But if he can't get on disability then he needs to find something creative to do for money.

I have witnessed people in wheel chairs without legs as Walmart greeters. Point is, if you set your mind to doing something then nothing is out of reach. I have very bad gout. When I get it in both ankles I can't walk. The last bout kept me in bed for two weeks. My company set me up via internet and I worked from home in bed. He *can* do it if he sets his mind to it.


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Ken Scharabok said:


> $8K is the current balance due. With remaining payments it is a couple of times that.
> 
> This trailer isn't in PA, but in NC. From map I would put it at about 160 miles. Interstate highway for probably 90-95% of route. South on I-77 to Charlotte and east on I-85 to Kings Mountain. Kenneth lives a couple of miles off I-85.
> 
> With his gone, replacement might be moved onto same foot print.


I was referring to the person that was going to drive down from PA with an equipment trailer to help out. Save the gas, I have one closer and am willing to help! :help:


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I was just getting ready to call him and it's 11PM his time and he may be in bed.

Angie


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

One idea is to make potholders and sell them on e-bay. I used to make them when I was young, some left over yarn scraps that were weaved and the loops folded over each other. I sold them like crazy because they are great pot holders and they didn't let heat through. That is an idea.

Buy parts, assemble them and sell them on e-bay. His daughter can help out. There are LOTS of ways to make money.

I have a friend that goes to yard sales and resales things on e-bay. She makes a lot of money doing it. The mother and daughter can get the things on the weekend and Ken can list it during the week. He could do all the record keeping and computer work. This can be done without leaving the couch. This same girl makes jewelry and sells it. Bulk purchase beads and make necklaces and bracelets. 

There are a couple more ideas.... He can work.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Tater'sPa
The mobile home is a few miles northest of Harmony. I think you are probably about as close to it as I am.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

MWG said:


> BS!
> 
> There are plenty of people that have jobs and can not get off of their couches.


 I was responding to whoever it was who suggested that Kenneth go somewhere else and work for 2 hours a day. He wouldn't be able to do that, even if someone else drove him to the job.


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

ladycat said:


> I was responding to whoever it was who suggested that Kenneth go somewhere else and work for 2 hours a day. He wouldn't be able to do that, even if someone else drove him to the job.


Cool. I agree he can't do landscaping...

I am just throwing out ideas. I am sure there are ways to make money I haven't even thought of...


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

MWG said:


> I am just throwing out ideas. I am sure there are ways to make money I haven't even thought of...


 I'm sure there are plenty of things that could be done from his couch. Hopefully some people will throw some more ideas out there. I can't think of anything that would bring in some quick cash.


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## Tater'sPa (Jun 27, 2002)

agmantoo said:


> Tater'sPa
> The mobile home is a few miles northest of Harmony. I think you are probably about as close to it as I am.


That's not to bad, If this is do-able with all concerned we can put together some plans and a time that works with schedules.
thanks,
Bill


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Rather a Catch 22. If Kenneth generates any traceable income it works against his disability claim.

DSL has made many opportunites worldwide, although it is largely a one-way street into the U.S. under the lowest bidder concept. For example overseas call and technical support centers. A medical transscription may be in Bangladash (sp?). Your X-rays and CAT scans may be evaluated by a doctor in India.

Almost all work at home opportunities are outright scams.

Selling on eBay isn't as simple as many people think. Use to be one would see articles on people quiting their jobs to buy and resell say Barbies. I suspect most are now back working full time. I speak from experience about selling on eBay: http://www.thefabricator.com/ArtSculpture/ArtSculpture_Article.cfm?ID=1355.

As other people see what you are doing there can quickly be market saturation. At one time I have a bent and dent grocery. I was among the first to offer date lapsed (or about to do so) health/protein/power bars on eBay. Sold well, but market was quickly saturated. I was among the first to offer lapsed hearing aid batteries. Sold well but market was quickly saturated. At one time I could buy 25' retractable pet leashes from a wholesaler and resell them at a good markup on eBay. From selling a couple of week it is now a couple a year due to competition.

Kenneth invented, patented and put together an investment group to market the first true microwave cookware - cooked rather than simply heated. I bought out his remaining inventory with the thought/belief I had the savvy to sell them on eBay. Disaster. People weren't even willing to pay cost of shipping. Tried a flea market a couple of times. Common remark was, "Oh, I don't cook at all anymore." No sales potential, and taking up barn space, so I gave entire trailer load to someone so they can take up his barn space. I will write off lost against my eBay store, but for someone else it could have been a significant financial drain.

As noted the ball is now in Kenneth's court.


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

MWG said:


> Were it me, I would not go this route. Ken and his wife have lots of family in the area. I would try them for a small loan (unless they won't lend them any money due to many various reasons) and get the payments up to date on the trailer.


MWG you must be thinking of another Ken because this one has a wife and daughter and that's the gist of it. My DW family abandoned her when she was 15. Outside of her father (whom is dead) the rest could care less if she was alive or dead.

My dad (whom is dead) cared and if here would rally to help. My biological mother is in a nursing home and had her leg amputated a while back. We get a post card at Christmas. She abandoned me when I was 8 months old.

So the closest I have to family outside of DW and DD is the family here at HT.

Kenneth


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

*Cottage Discussion*

*Background:* Building started out a 16âx24â back in 1988. I used it as a place to crash and a get away from dad. In 1989 I had a bathroom and bedroom added on to it. Back then Dad knew everybody and permit for electric appeared no problem. We ran the electric off the old farm house meter. There has never been a kitchen. I used a microwave and a toaster oven for quick meals and went down to the farm house if I needed a stove. I sure miss dad.

In 1996 Dad said if I wanted the 16x36 to come get it. So we had it moved to our place here. Dadâs friend came out ran the electric to the building. We have used it as a library, shop, storage. Never had it re-plumbed so No water or sewer.

There is a commode, shower and sink already in bathroom.

As long as hot water heaters donât go bad there is one already in the building.

It already has 220V wiring for hot water heater.

Cabinets are low priority as we have 2 free standing cabinets and shelves are not a problem as the walls are lined with them in the big room in the building.

I have 2 free standing wardrobes that I used before instead of a closet. 

There is electricity run out to building. (jumped off a breaker in main power box)
*There would need to be a higher amp service box put in the building so we could use the 220V. *

We have a stove, fridge, washer & dryer and a small chest type freezer.

*Thinking of what could be done* The 8âx20â deck could be moved from rear of mobile to outer side of building. With some reinforcement and plywood added to floor this would be a good start to adding more living area. Adding a bedroom for DD and small place to put washer & dryer. DD bedroom is 8x15 now, that would leave space for washer and dryer and room to enter from connector door.

Front porch off mobile could be moved to become front porch of building. 

Kitchen will be biggest headache. Need double sink, outlets and water/sewer lines. Have an old table that could be used as counter space.

Outlets will be needed both 110 and 220. Some electrical wiring & plumbing. 

ROOF: I had thought of the white tin instead of shingles. Since it comes in 4x10 sheet size I thought that might make it easier to work with. When adding another bedroom it would be easy to drop down a step and let roof sheet off at 45 degree or so angle. Ridge-vents may be salvageable. (Note: Current roof is 18 years old)

Building has no heating system. I used 3 1500 watt heaters back when I lived in it. 
Cleveland County has become rabid about wood heaters so better stick with electric type.

It has some insulation in ceiling. Due to rain leak probably 35% would need to be replaced. I had corning fiberglass insulation put in it when it was built. I would think insulation in walls would still be good. 

*SEPTIC:* Is approved type for single family dwelling. Was suggested that I get it pumped and while the dirt is already removed knock out one port and add sewage from 16x36. And cap other port from mobile home. Hmmm could put in drop pipe like used to connect RVâs about as cheap as just capping it. Make it an asset for later use.

OK you said discuss it so Iâve put some of my thoughts here to brainstorm. Your Turn

Kenneth


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

Closest place that sell lumber, tin, building supplies to us is Brackett Farm & Forest Products (704) 487-6855. There used to be a salvage lumber place over near Belmont Iâll have to see if I can find there name and number. There is a Lowes and a Home Depot over in Gastonia about 20 miles away. That's about all I know for sources of building materials.

Kenneth


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## cindyc (Nov 12, 2005)

confused? What happened to the above trailer option from last night? Fixing up the cottage sounds like a lot of work, too? Somebody going to help you do that?
Well at least it looks like you potentially have TWO viable options rather than none. That's a good change.  
Cindyc.


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

*cindyc* I went and read about that. Questions that pop in my mind are what shape is the trailer in? If it needs repairs whom-how will that get done? Will it hold together for the move? 

I can remember having a hard time getting time off from work and I'd be willing to bet bosses ain't changed that much.

Biggest question * Where we going to live while waiting on Green Tree to come pick up mobile and waiting on HT crew to move in older trailer?*

I am feeling a bit mentally devastated today. Daughter biggest concern is that she's loosing her bathroom and only home she remembers.

DW had to come home early today she started throwing up at work. They expect her back at 4:45 A.M. tomorrow. The crazy hour changes are impossible to acclimate to. But as KEN S says that is the price you pay being a Temp.

OH and KEN S the old metal trailer is 40 feet long 8 feet wide. Have you got one of the rubber seals that goes across the top of the swing away doors? Any idea on how to make one cheap? 

Kenneth


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

Wayne02 said:


> I thought I read something in one of the posts that the keys would be changed on the mobile on October 10th? Is that correct? If it is that would be the drop dead date... which is only 25 calendar days (18 business days) from today Sept.14th.


That is exactly correct.



Wayne02 said:


> I don't want to discount at all peoples stated desire to help as far as refurbishing the cottage, home depot gift certs, habitat humanity, home makeover etc. I think all the outpouring of ideas and offers to help from this community is simply incredible, and may very well be highly beneficial as Ken progress through this journey. But I think for the here and now, decisions need to be made and action taken within the next couple days so that Ken and his family will at least have a roof over their head in 25 days.


That has become one of our questions where will we live while we wait for Greentree to come get mobile. Some options are not practical because we have a child and my physical condition.



Wayne02 said:


> You already have the utilities on the property now that could be hooked up to the rv (that's huge in and of itself). The RV will be small and cramped, and probably not too pretty, but at least it will be a roof over the families head, and most importantly provide some breathing room for the immediate crisis.


*Did I miss something?* I saw the url link to the 1975 motorhome but I think it was $3500. Is that someone off HT that has the motorhome? Confused about RV references :stars:



Wayne02 said:


> 25 days sounds like a lot when we are all sitting comfortably behind our computers typing messages about this situation, but believe me it will be gone in a flash. While I'm well aware of the power of teamwork (if a group decides to rebuild the cottage), I also know that things very seldom get completed as fast as planned. If I understand the situation correctly there are literally precious few days left to act?


Wayne 25 days does not sound long to us. 

Kenneth


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

*Trailer Option*

Looks to me like it would be a timing challenge. GT getting thereâs and moving in the other one. 

*Gideon* When GT moves this one out they wonât try to pull up the strap tie downs will they? Canât those be used again? Do you have tractor with front end lift that could move deck and porch?

I have a small heat pump if the other trailer has electric heat and a/c *are* they compatible.

If this is the option that is going to be put in motion Iâll have DW and DD to start removing the post and take down the kennel to make ingress and egress easier. I have talked to my neighbor and he is willing to let HT crew come up his old logging road to deliver mobile home if necessary. Also if we need to we can cut across his property at the road.

Thinking out loud and considering all options.

Now is where the rubber meets the road what is the most viable option that we can count on?

Kenneth


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Kenneth in NC said:


> *cindyc* The crazy hour changes are impossible to acclimate to.
> 
> Kenneth


Tell me about it another reason why I will be so glad to be out of the army for good.


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## teresab (May 25, 2005)

OK I guess the question is to agmantoo. Is the trailer road worthy? I think this is by far the best bet....to get something that already has wiring , plumbing, and heating set up. Agmantoo if Ken decides this is the route to go..what would be needed once it gets to his place? Does the roof need roof coated..is there any leaks? Any holes in the floors inside that need repaired. Is it possible to post a pick of the trailer agmantoo? Just want to let you know your generosity is mindblowing.
Ken...you seem to not to be too thrilled about an older trailer. All I know is I would be brought to my knees by the thought of so many willing to help. Older maybe...but paid for. A coat of paint will do wonders on the inside of an older place and we will wait to see what agmantoo says about the condition of the outside of the trailer and what the HT crew can do. I personally would live in a barn with the animals if that's what it took to get me back on my feet. Hope I'm not coming across as mean because I don't mean it that way.. we are just trying to help.
To all HT's .... if the trailer is decided on...and it must be quickly ken...does anyone know someone who could haul it? If not for free what would be the hauling costs?

Again to Ken.... I know this must be hard on your DD...I think the kids suffer the most in situations like this because the future is so shaky to them. For that reason...I would like to know what she needs. If money is so tight for you I'm sure there are things she needs that you are unable to provide at the moment. Clothes..if so send sizes and colors she likes..and does she like jeans or dresses. Does she like to read...what authors...does she like art..what supplies does she need. I love kids and they are the first I think of in a hard situation. I would like to help make this time easier for her and show her people will be there to help out.

Short term solutions....where to go between trailer being taken away and different living solutions (cottage or trailer being hauled in).... apartment for a month?? Camper to be borrowed for a month?? Motel for a month?? 

Come on people...put our heads together!! We can do it...together.


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## teresab (May 25, 2005)

Would one of the moderators be willing to be the point of contact for the gift cards and money? I think that would be the best solution....rather than take time to decided who is trustworthy to handle this stuff...seeing we know each other just thorough this site and not personally.


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## cindyc (Nov 12, 2005)

Kenneth,

When things get this bad, it is really hard to have hope. All you can see is the obstacles, even when people are trying to help. Try to take a deep breath... slow down... It looks to me like something is going to be workable. A trailer that needs to be fixed up, or a cottage that needs work is better than nothing. (TRUST ME on this one. I have been homeless... you don't want to go there). 

I have been in your shoes, with five kids. Your daughter will not only be OK, she will learn to care deeply about others in these types of situations. I know it is hard not to worry about her. I REMEBER how hard it is.... 

OK... that's my two cents for what ever they are worth. 

Hang in there...
Cindyc.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I would not offer something that I myself would not live in! Last year I took a smaller trailer that was less than what I offered Kenneth for free and did a minor facelift for ~$600. That trailer is now the home of a single woman on a limited income. I just received the tax bill for that home and the county valued the home only for $3112. With the same level of facelift the offered trailer would generate $500 per month rent income. I am disappointed that the gift horse did not even get the look in the mouth prior to being declined.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Kenneth:

I flat out don't know about the cargo box door gasket. Totally out of my experience. Perhaps someone like MooPups might know.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

agmantoo said:


> I would not offer something that I myself would not live in! Last year I took a smaller trailer that was less than what I offered Kenneth for free and did a minor facelift for ~$600. That trailer is now the home of a single woman on a limited income. I just received the tax bill for that home and the county valued the home only for $3112. With the same level of facelift the offered trailer would generate $500 per month rent income. I am disappointed that the gift horse did not even get the look in the mouth prior to being declined.


 I'm a little confused. I went back and reread Kenneth's posts that he made after the offer was made, and sounds like he's accepting it, and even making plans for how to most easily get it onto his property.

Yes he did ask if it would hold up to moving that far, but when someone offers a free mobile home, one can't help but wonder how good a shape it's in. I've seen mobile homes given away before, and they're generally in pretty bad condition.

*BUT* it sounds like you know what you're doing, and that you do it regular, so it certainly makes me feel more confident that Kenneth will have a decent roof over his head.


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## amwitched (Feb 14, 2004)

agmantoo said:


> I would not offer something that I myself would not live in! Last year I took a smaller trailer that was less than what I offered Kenneth for free and did a minor facelift for ~$600. That trailer is now the home of a single woman on a limited income. I just received the tax bill for that home and the county valued the home only for $3112. With the same level of facelift the offered trailer would generate $500 per month rent income. I am disappointed that the gift horse did not even get the look in the mouth prior to being declined.


Agmantoo I didn't get the impression the Kenneth was declining your offer. It may just be hard for him to imagine what it actually looks like. I know when I have looked at other mobile homes, I never really liked them as well as my own. But, under the circumstances, I'm sure that your offer to Kenneth is like a great big blessing.

Kenneth, your DD will do just fine. It will be like an adventure for her. Kids have an amazing way of bouncing back from all sorts of things. 

Keep your head and spirits up! We are all rooting for you!! I'm there to help if you need it.


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

agmantoo said:


> I would not offer something that I myself would not live in! Last year I took a smaller trailer that was less than what I offered Kenneth for free and did a minor facelift for ~$600. That trailer is now the home of a single woman on a limited income. I just received the tax bill for that home and the county valued the home only for $3112. With the same level of facelift the offered trailer would generate $500 per month rent income. I am disappointed that the gift horse did not even get the look in the mouth prior to being declined.


Perhaps the cost of moving it and setting up is out of their reach?? Sounds like a very generous offer, agman.


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## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

Two other HT members fairly close to Kenneth had offered to disconnect the lines from the free mobile and then transport & set it up at no cost. :shrug: 



SteveD(TX) said:


> Perhaps the cost of moving it and setting up is out of their reach?? Sounds like a very generous offer, agman.


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## cindyc (Nov 12, 2005)

agmantoo said:


> I would not offer something that I myself would not live in! Last year I took a smaller trailer that was less than what I offered Kenneth for free and did a minor facelift for ~$600. That trailer is now the home of a single woman on a limited income. I just received the tax bill for that home and the county valued the home only for $3112. With the same level of facelift the offered trailer would generate $500 per month rent income. I am disappointed that the gift horse did not even get the look in the mouth prior to being declined.


This is such an amazing offer. From personal experience, it is really hard, and humbling to receive something like this when you really WANT to be able to do it for yourself. The gift it's self is still connected to profound loss. After all, if things had gone the way Kenneth wanted them to, he wouldn't need the gift. That can be very difficult to swallow, even when you are being offered something wonderful. It is a level of independence you are temporarily giving up. Please stay with this a while longer and see what happens. I don't think anything said here is meant as a declining of your generosity, or even a lack of grattitude. I hope you will wait this out a bit longer while the details are worked through. 

Thank you for what you are doing. Someone just like you came around in our situation too. It really saved our bacons. When I get my financial ducks all back in order, I hope to return in kind for others. 

Cindyc.


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

Arkie1 said:


> Two other HT members fairly close to Kenneth had offered to disconnect the lines from the free mobile and then transport & set it up at no cost. :shrug:


I guess I'm confused then, since agman's post seems to indicate the offer has been declined. Will wait for further updates, since we're praying for him and his family like everyone else.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Ladies and Gents - I don't think anything has been declined or other, 
it's just hard to switch gears and realize new opportunities early in the morning when you went to bed without them. The ones that stayed up late, have the advantange of it being something they've know about for hours.

There are practical considerations and logistics to anlyse to see what will really work, why don't we give Ken a few hours to assemalate the information and figure on it.

I'm sure he's not turning down anything right now and totally appreciates any help, and this mobile home offered is a wonderful extension of friendship. But since the mobile home he's in right now has a repair or two needed, it is realistic to make sure even a gift will makeit all the way. And now agmantoo had answered that question, figuring should be able to go forward.

Now I'm going back and re-reading all these recent posts to see if I can think of anything more.

Thanks agmantoo for being so generous to offer that, and to the others figuring how to help Kenneth and family.... you amaze me with all the generousity.

Angie


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

agmantoo said:


> I would not offer something that I myself would not live in! Last year I took a smaller trailer that was less than what I offered Kenneth for free and did a minor facelift for ~$600. That trailer is now the home of a single woman on a limited income. I just received the tax bill for that home and the county valued the home only for $3112. With the same level of facelift the offered trailer would generate $500 per month rent income. I am disappointed that the gift horse did not even get the look in the mouth prior to being declined.


argmantoo I have not declined your offer and hadn't planned to. Not sure how you read that into my post. What year model is it? I ask because NC/SC have been decling to turn power on for 1972 or older mobiles.

When I checked the boards this morning two options were being discussed I posted about each of them offering my thoughts and leaving it open for brainstorming.

I was told not an hour ago by a lady that came out to check on DW that after you get the default letter GT often sneaks in and changes the locks. Citing that "They are afraid debtor may trash the mobile if left for total length of time listed on default" Sometimes (not always) the judge allows them to do this.

Now I'm going to try to direct DD on taking down photo's, collecting Birth Certificates, marriage license and packing her clothes in trash bags. I'll check back afterwhile and see what has been decided.

Kenneth


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

I'm sure the reason the power company won't turn on the electric in the older that '72 mobile homes is because they had aluminum wiring and had lots of fires.


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## Snowdancer (Sep 23, 2002)

Kenneth in NC said:


> .* I'll check back afterwhile and see what has been decided.*
> Kenneth



Kenneth, I'm not coming down on you but I've noticed you use this phrase a couple of times. :shrug: This isn't about us deciding for you, I think we're all just offering suggestions and help. 
I think it's You that has to decide the next step. What is it you want us to do to help? What option do YOU want; the mobile home or the cabin or another option that hasn't been talked about?

This is your families life and we don't have the right or desire to tell you what to do or make the decision for you. That is up to you & your wife & daughter. 

Peace,
Kathy


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2006)

KY Guest said:


> Kenneth, I'm not coming down on you but I've noticed you use this phrase a couple of times. :shrug: This isn't about us deciding for you, I think we're all just offering suggestions and help.
> I think it's You that has to decide the next step. What is it you want us to do to help? What option do YOU want; the mobile home or the cabin or another option that hasn't been talked about?
> 
> This is your families life and we don't have the right or desire to tell you what to do or make the decision for you. That is up to you & your wife & daughter.
> ...


 I don't think he meant it the way you're taking it. 

Kenneth is directing his daughter in getting their "valuables" ready to move out. It sounds like he has come to the decision to let his current trailor go back. He's also figuring out how/what he needs to do to make it easier for the volunteers to get the "new" trailor on his property.

The other people here at the forum are trying to co-ordinate how/when to get the "new" trailor to Kenneth's place. Kenneth cannot dictate other people's schedules and resources, so he's letting them work it out on their end (thus his statement in question), while he gets things ready at his end.


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## Snowdancer (Sep 23, 2002)

I understand that but honestly; I checked and at this point I don't see a single post where Kenneth says which option he wants us to focus on; the cabin upgrade by HT volunteers or the free mobile home offered by Agmantoo. That's what I was talking about; we shouldn't make that decision for his family. 


ladycat said:


> I don't think he meant it the way you're taking it.
> 
> Kenneth is directing his daughter in getting their "valuables" ready to move out. It sounds like he has come to the decision to let his current trailor go back. He's also figuring out how/what he needs to do to make it easier for the volunteers to get the "new" trailor on his property.
> 
> The other people here at the forum are trying to co-ordinate how/when to get the "new" trailor to Kenneth's place. Kenneth cannot dictate other people's schedules and resources, so he's letting them work it out on their end (thus his statement in question), while he gets things ready at his end.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

I think we need to step back for 24 hours and let Ken digest this.

Its a biggie and requires a lot of thought to think it all through.

Couple thoughts.

If (when) they take the mobile,they do have the cabin to hold em over for a while.Correct?

Is it now a given the mobile is hopelessly lost?If so,time to move on,so that must be determined and a concrete answer given,yes or no.

At what point does Agmantoos mobile get moved,and how long is Agmantoos offer good for,he may have time constraints.

Ken has to decide if the mobile or fixing the cabin is better for many reasons,he has to think that out.Give him a little time,this is a biggie.Have to figure out legalities of both plans.

Ken,for your DD,lay it on the line(every bit of it) and explain tough times,it happens,but we will come through this.If she is a teen,include her in the decision making process so she understands she is being considered too as it affects her also.Include her as much as possible,it will really help her adapt.IMHO,it would for me.
I would make the final decision in my household,and Mrs. would go along.Thats us,but you do need a decision maker in the end.

Lets take a breath here and do some considering,a lot has been put up in 24 hours.

How I deal with this,put the pros and cons on paper,easier to think em out.

My thought,work towards the mobile.Sounds like its in good shape and only requires a move and setup and offers for making that happen are on the table.

BooBoo


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Kenneth:

I suspect this is what you can expect from GT:

On or before October 2nd three vehicle will arrive unannounced: a mobile home tow truck, a flag truck and a deputy sheriff. The deputy will serve you the court papers. He will remain to protect the repossessors from any action on your part.

The objective of the tow truck driver and flag truck driver (and possibly a third helper) will be to get the mobile off of the property in the shortest time possible. May be as quickly as one-half hour but probably no longer than two hours. Like bounty hunters the courts allow them a good bit of latitude on what they do.

Not necessarily in order: They will remove any skirting. They will detach porch and deck, using a chainsaw if necessary. They will either cut or disconnect tie down straps. They will pull main circuit breaker at box and then either cut wire under mobile or disconnect inside and pull. Front and back doors will be screwed shut. They will cut water and sewer lines. If the heat pump was part of the financing they will load it on the flag truck. They will jack up trailer enough to remove blocking. If axles are still under it they will mount tires. If not, they will have axles with them. Whatever is in their way once the tow truck is hooked up will be physically removed in one way or another. Don't expect them to even talk to you about what they are doing.

You will probably be amazed at how quickly they will work.

You should obtain some estimates from a licensed electrician/plumber on bringing the cottage up to code, but be prepared for answer. Before sure to ask about option for one or more volunteer assistants.


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

Just a thought on moving another mobile home onto the property:

Before everyone gets too excited about this (generous) proposition, please check with your local laws. In my area, you can't even move a mobile past a certain age. And, it's not that old of an age, either. I can't remember exactly but prior to my finding my current "homestead on a hill," I looked into buying bare land and moving an older (and offered free) mobile and was told I couldn't. The person offering the mobile eventually had to just have it torn down to get rid of it.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

Janis Sauncy said:


> Just a thought on moving another mobile home onto the property:
> 
> Before everyone gets too excited about this (generous) proposition, please check with your local laws. In my area, you can't even move a mobile past a certain age. And, it's not that old of an age, either. I can't remember exactly but prior to my finding my current "homestead on a hill," I looked into buying bare land and moving an older (and offered free) mobile and was told I couldn't. The person offering the mobile eventually had to just have it torn down to get rid of it.


Most of the time this is governed by a HOA in a sub-division. I know my ex-SIL was going to move in an older mobile home and they would not let her. She wound up having to buy a new one.


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## straight shot (May 9, 2006)

Just like many posters here, I'm feeling really bad for you and your family DUDE. But just take some posters info and go with it. Ken knows what he is talking about and is not holding a bash session just to get in posts. He truly cares about your well being and what is happening. HE is giving you sound advice on what you can do.

I could offer you a couple thousand to get you to next month but why? Like another poster said its time you go out fishing. Take the advice and don't think you are the only one with heart wrenching situations as what you are going though! Many peps don't have what has been offered to you. BE grateful that you have someone to care about you and yours!

Man get on your feet and take life what it gives, take the punches and roll with it.


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## BetsyK in Mich (May 14, 2002)

What are the laws in your township/county regarding moving and living in an older mobile home. We had a pre 1975 mobile home that my mother lived in here on the farm and when she passed away found out we could not sell and move the trailer. A person could live here in it forever, it could be moved to a trailer park and set up for people to live in but not to a new site. Mobile homes in Michigan have a title, like a vehicle. We ended up selling to a young couple to live in for one year while they built their new home after he jumped through a bunch of hoops for the township and county. Pretty steep fines if we moved it and got caught. NC may not have zoning laws like we do I just wanted to mention it, hate to get a trailer to your place and then not be able to set it up. Hopefully this is not an issue.


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## BetsyK in Mich (May 14, 2002)

Seems that great minds think alike, while I was posting someone else had the same thoughts. Sorry.


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

straight shot said:


> Just like many posters here, I'm feeling really bad for you and your family DUDE. But just take some posters info and go with it. Ken knows what he is talking about and is not holding a bash session just to get in posts. He truly cares about your well being and what is happening. HE is giving you sound advice on what you can do.
> 
> I could offer you a couple thousand to get you to next month but why? Like another poster said its time you go out fishing. Take the advice and don't think you are the only one with heart wrenching situations as what you are going though! Many peps don't have what has been offered to you. BE grateful that you have someone to care about you and yours!
> 
> Man get on your feet and take life what it gives, take the punches and roll with it.


Way I understand Ken S "Don't trust GT to wait till last minute. Quite Frankly I like Ken S and find most of his advice sound.

Define Fishing. 

What is peps?

Kenneth


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2006)

Kenneth in NC said:


> Define Fishing.
> 
> What is peps?


Peeps?

The fishing reference must mean the one about:

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

Friends after careful weighing of the pros and cons of all that was discussed here on this thread. We have decided that fixing up the cottage would be the best option for our family.

After a ton of phone calls I found that Cleveland County has some rather strict policies concerning mobiles. They are trying like Gaston County to oust all Single Wides. I spoke to two people that recently tried to bring a SW into Cleveland County they were "made" to move the one off their own property :flame: (He is only 1 mile up the road from us)

The HOA for the "KIngs Crest" subdivision (1/2 mile up road) would fight us really hard if we tried to bring in another mobile. DW friend made that perfectly clear this afternoon.

So *agmantoo* thank you so very much for such a generous offer. I had no idea that the ###### County could rule rural property the way they do. I always thought that out in the country meant you could do what you wanted as long as you wasn't hurting anyone. Guess that was true a long time ago but it sure ain't true today. 

Kenneth


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## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

I think you've made a wise, and very difficult, choice. I'm sure it'll feel better to have a plan of action, at least, and to have things more under your own control.

After I lived in my tiny shed for four months, I learned a lot about what can be done with unique materials and a small space. Conduit makes great (cheap) clothing rods - I hung one from the ceiling with garden wire and electrical staples, and it held my clothes! The silver foil bubble insulation is easy to work, with but not as warm as you might hope, still, better than nothing. Good lamp oil in an old fashioned oil lamp will give off decent light. Rechargeable batteries are awesome, especially in a really big flashlight. A Coleman cookstove *can* be used inside if you open the windows wide (I know, it's officially a bad idea, but if it's pouring out, or -20 Celsius, you do what you gotta do). Kerosene smells bad but it's better to be warm and stinky than cold and clean! I'm sure you will find your own solutions and someday you'll look back on the adventure and say, "Wow, I can't believe we did that." 

Best of luck!


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## morrowsmowers (Jun 14, 2004)

ladycat said:


> Peeps?
> 
> The fishing reference must mean the one about:
> 
> Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime.


"Peeps" = people. I'll have to get with my peeps and see what they want to do about it. Ya'all got to hang in the hood for a while.

Ken in Glassboro, NJ


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

About letting the mobile go:

If he lets the mobile home go back, _can't they attach his land???_ More than likely, it won't bring what he owes at auction - they could then put a lien on his land!

YIKES


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## cast iron (Oct 4, 2004)

Kenneth in NC said:


> *Did I miss something?* I saw the url link to the 1975 motorhome but I think it was $3500. Is that someone off HT that has the motorhome? Confused about RV references :stars:
> 
> Wayne 25 days does not sound long to us.
> Kenneth


Kenneth, see below

Posted by Gideon, post #58


> Ken, I can move anything that you can pick up(used trailer or camper)to your land and set it up for you. I have screw machines to anchor it down/etc. If worse comes to worse I have a 22 ft camper(bad floor in main section) you can borrow through the winter.


So, how about this:

1. 22ft camper moved to your place via the most generous offer above, for temp use.

2. Placement and hookup of utilities worked out with the help of Gideon and other willing/interested/local HT members. 

3. As posted earlier, one of the keys to living in a camper is creative use of the area just outside the trailer. Decks off the front door, possibly a covered deck or walkway across the front of of the trailer etc. This extends the space a bit, gives family members a place to get outside the trailer but still not out in the weather for a little breathing room.

4. Possible modification and movement of decks and other add-on structures from the mobile home to the trailer with the help of local HT members.

5. This allows you to stay on your land, gives you a roof over your head, keeps you close to the cottage retrofit work, and buys some time to re-fit the cottage as necessary over the winter, move into the cottage, and return the trailer.

We are about 3 weeks out from the 10th, that would be:

One week to coordinate and move trailer to property

One week to set up the trailer and hook up the utilities

One week to move into trailer and get sort of settled

And two days to paint a big middle finger on the side of the mobile home before they come to get it...  Just kidding about that one... mostly 

If you decide to go the route of a travel trailer I'll send you a set of tacky awning lights to go on it. Every camping trailer needs tacky awning lights.


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## Fla Gal (Jul 14, 2003)

Wayne02 said:


> If you decide to go the route of a travel trailer I'll send you a set of tacky awning lights to go on it. Every camping trailer needs tacky awning lights.


ROFLMBO!!! Where ever in the world did you find those cool tacky lights? That's downright generous of you Wayne. LOL!


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Kenneth:

There has been a great deal of PM among forum members about your situation. There is one aspect which seems to really be bothering many so I'll give you an opportunity to address it.

Another forum participant is STAR IN NC. When she has posted you have, on occasion, posted against it in a third party manner. When you have posted she (and it is obviously a woman) has posted, on occasion, against yours in the same manner.

Star has described her situation on some posting almost exactly like yours. Young daughter being homeschooled now. Growing financial probems. Husband with diabetis and CHF. Bad back. Unable to find work. No souces of other income. Mortgage of $250 month.

If this Star is your wife why have you two been playing games on the forum as if you were just friends or such? And, if so, why would it exclude your playing games with the forum members now.

(Forum members can simply do a keyword search on Kenneth Star in all posts for examples.)


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## Country Lady (Oct 2, 2003)

Ken Scharabok said:


> Kenneth:
> 
> There has been a great deal of PM among forum members about your situation. There is one aspect which seems to really be bothering many so I'll give you an opportunity to address it.
> 
> ...


Dear people, I formed my opinion of this thread at the beginning. I think all of you should take a step back and really look at this situation before opening up your billfolds again. Do a search on all of Star in NC posts. If this isn't Kenneth's wife, it's mighty strange she has a 12 yr. old daughter with an overweight husband with CHF and lives in NC, has back problems and works temporary jobs. Wise up folks. Moderators, IMHO, this thread needs the plug pulled. I don't like dishonest people.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Country Lady said:


> Dear people, I formed my opinion of this thread at the beginning. I think all of you should take a step back and really look at this situation before opening up your billfolds again. Do a search on all of Star in NC posts. If this isn't Kenneth's wife, it's mighty strange she has a 12 yr. old daughter with an overweight husband with CHF and lives in NC, has back problems and works temporary jobs. Wise up folks. Moderators, IMHO, this thread needs the plug pulled. I don't like dishonest people.


There's bound to be lots of obese, diabetic, CHF men in NC with 12 year-old home-schooled daughters, and wives who work Temp jobs...

There's bound to be lots of mothers of 12 year old home schooled daughters in NC who have obese, diabetic husbands with CHF and who work Temp jobs...

There's bound to be lots of similar coincidences going on here at HT, among this tiny sampling of internet users...uhhhh....hmmmm... :baby04:


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2006)

I looked up the posts for Star in NC.

(Go HERE and click "Find all posts by Star In N.C." )

I only see that she has posted 3 times in the Kenneth *HTF threads, and she didn't say anything untoward, _except_ for one statement she made that makes it sound like she didn't know him.



> Goodnight all.
> 
> I am proud to be part of such great people. Take care Kenneth
> 
> ...


Other than that nothing seems amiss.


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

If that's true, it's appalling.
I did a search and found this earlier post from kenneth:



> We need to raise $26,872 by January 15th 2005.


Kindof a pattern, evidently. I hope Sancraft hasn't mailed her check yet.....very sad.


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## Country Lady (Oct 2, 2003)

ladycat said:


> I looked up the posts for Star in NC.
> 
> (Go HERE and click "Find all posts by Star In N.C." )
> 
> ...


You didn't read far enough. Keep reading.


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

She posted this to him...



> 10-20-2004, 10:21 PM
> Star In N.C. Join Date: Dec 2002
> Location: N.C.
> Posts: 249
> ...



Let me just say this is the first I've heard of all this, just now. I just did a search on Star and came up with multiple posts.
I haven't PM'ed anyone about Kenneth, Star, or their situation.

Just making that clear.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2006)

QBVII said:


> She posted this to him...
> 
> 
> > 10-20-2004, 10:21 PM
> ...


Hmmm. That DOES look very odd.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

j.r. guerra in s. tx. said:


> Would the IRS consider getting *half* of that amount a measure of good faith? $13,000 plus change is a lot of money, but that amount can be raised much quicker than the full amount.
> 
> My friend, I'm praying for you for some good luck to go your way. *I hope some of us who have a little extra cash can 'pass the hat' and collect some of it, and pass it on to Kenneth. I've known Kenneth in NC for at least four years now and consider him a friend. I can think of much worse ways to spend $20 then helping out a fellow board member.* Life is funny - it might be your turn someday.
> 
> Not a handout - just a hand up.


This was posted 2 years ago next month...Kenneth, have you been getting "MailBox Money" from HT members before this crisis?


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## boxwoods (Oct 6, 2003)




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## moopups (May 12, 2002)

Lets keep a lid on it folks, this situation is being looked into but there are no conclusions at this time.

'Be Nice', still applies.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

moopups said:


> Lets keep a lid on it folks, this situation is being looked into but there are no conclusions at this time.
> 
> 'Be Nice', still applies.



I will "Be Nice"...I hope Kenneth will respond. It looks as if HT's generousity has been a source of income before. I certainly hope I'm wrong... but this concerns me more than the issue of whether Star is his wife...

Some folks here don't have much themselves... :help:


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## Kenneth in NC (Nov 20, 2002)

So *Ken Scharabok* in the middle of losing our home and all the crap thatâs going on you and âothersâ have decided Iâm dishonest. I think that is a big crock of BS. YES Star in NC is my wife and like others on here whom husband or wife post separately our thoughts and opinions do not always mesh.

Star has posted questions that concerned things she felt were important. Some of her post I didnât like. And Ken if you ever get married I hope your wife is your FRIEND. Up to this minute Star nor I have ever been asked if we were married or not. And I fail to see what difference that makes during this crisis.

*Country Lady* you made up your mind at the first of this post. Why is it just now your posting about it? And what specifically did you decide?

*Boleyz* Up until a few weeks ago I have never received a free gift from anyone. I did sell a few flashlights on barter board a while back. JR made his comment back then and no one responded but Star, she mailed me $5 and a cute note saying to have a burger on her. She tryâs so hard to keep my spirits up. 

I have had enough of the sanctimonious attitudes. And I really donât care whether you believe me or not. I originally posted because this is TSHTF. Itâs devastating and whether we will survive it or not I donât know. 

I asked for ideas. Others escalated it to actually helping us. We felt fortunate that there were actually some decent folks out there. NOW, because of some of my wifeâs old post, Suddenly we are the bad guys. 

As far as I am concerned shut this thread down. And if you would like to, DELETE ALL post by me and Star, after all Iâm sure I havenât posted any worthy information in all this time.

Kenneth


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## BearCreekFarm (Jun 24, 2005)

written by Kenneth in NC on 10-22-04-
"As you can imagine were selling a lot to try to put this burdeon behind us. If your interested my wife has some colectible Star Trek plaques, 3 Star trek Silver Coins and some old dolls. I have a couple bayonets and sheath knives and a big toy chest full of Marvel Toys still in their original wrapers.

Also I have a 21 speed Shimano Mountain Bike that I paid $175 for, put together, and have never rode. I'd sell it for $125. 

I'm sure theres more but right now my brain is fried."

Kenneth in NC

the very next post, by Star-
"Kenneth I am really sorry to hear that its got that bad. I hoped your uncle would do better by you. Please don't be offended but JR Guerra's post struck a nerve I know you've had it rough these past few years so I mailed you something for your family hope it helps."


Star

These people have been soliciting donations for almost two years, that I know of. During the same time period, they have purchased firearms, gold panning equipment, and other similar items. We have heard a lot about their financial problems- first it was the triple-bypass back in 1997, then it was the IRS bill which was never fully explained, now it is the GT foreclosure, and I don't read all of Kenneth's posts so there may have been a number of other issues over the past couple of years of which I am not even aware. An awful lot of people have spoken of their "friendship" with Kenneth, and stood up for his character when other posters have questioned his intentions- I always wonder how they can "know" him so well from an internet forum. At the very least, he and his wife hae not learned much from their past experiences- Kenneth blames all of his troubles on his bypass surgery, but they sure have blown a lot of $$$ since then, if one is to believe what he has posted in the past. Doesn't seem as if they have done much to help themselves during the past few years. And here's a question which comes to mind- if kenneth is as sick as he claims to be, and his wife has 4 herniated discs and finds it difficult to work, then why is she buying him deer rifles for anniversary gifts? Well enough to hunt deer, but not well enough to work? hmmmm.


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## Hawk45 (Sep 1, 2006)

Wow is all I can say. I am new here, was feeling bad for this fella, and just yesterday asked my wife about adding this person to our Church prayer chain on Sunday. I guess we will add him and star to our prayer chain, just for a different reason than first planned.

Shame shame


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## APPway (May 27, 2005)

read this thread it makes it sound like they are not married to me it is him selling that cook wear and her buying it

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=519806#post519806


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## BellsBunnies (Sep 18, 2004)

Star posted on 04-18-2006, 03:20 PM 




Star In N.C. said:


> Thought I'd bring ya'll up to date. Filed bankruptcy last October. It was discharged back in Jan this year.
> 
> I had several temp 3 day jobs. Just enough to upset the apple cart. DH medicine now costs over $1200 month. If not for medicaid he'd have to do without. Don't think he would survive with out his meds. I hate having to rely on medicaid cause they threaten to cut him off almost every other month.
> 
> ...


So why didn't he have his meds? He had medcaid back in April and didn't post tdhtf untill0 8-10-2006, 05:59 PM


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Kenneth in NC said:


> *Boleyz* Up until a few weeks ago I have never received a free gift from anyone. I did sell a few flashlights on barter board a while back. JR made his comment back then and no one responded but Star, she mailed me $5 and a cute note saying to have a burger on her. She tryâs so hard to keep my spirits up.
> 
> I have had enough of the *sanctimonious attitudes*. And I really donât care whether you believe me or not. I originally posted because this is TSHTF. Itâs devastating and whether we will survive it or not I donât know.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clearing all that up...you do sound a bit "Sanctimonious" yourself.

When ya get over $500 from folks and it doesn't seem to help, people are going to get a bit skeptical...wouldn't you? You have a long history on HT and your wife did speak to you as if she was a stranger...Can't you see where that might appear just a bit odd?

My wife and I do our talking face-to-face, not on a public discussion board where we pretend we're not related.

The fact that others "Escalated it" into actual help shows a great kindness and compassion on their parts. Have you reflected your appreciation and humility? I don't know, because I haven't read the whole thread...maybe you have...

Anyway, if you have any pointed needs of food, clothing and shelter in the days to come, I know that NC is full of kind-hearted Christian organizations that you can call on. I believe you're near Charlotte? I could probably find ya some links...best of luck to ye!


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Here's some shelters and soup kitchens in your state...Contact One and it can refer you to the one nearest to you...Good Luck!

St. Peter's Soup Kitchen
http://www.st-petersweb.org/history.html

Women's Center of Wake County: Day shelter, hot lunches, clothing, etc.
http://www.wcwc.org/

Charlotte Rescue Mission

http://www.charlotterescuemission.org/

Potter's House Community Kitchen
http://www.greensboro.com/gum/food.html

Weaver's House Shelter
http://www.greensboro.com/gum/housing.html#weaver

Raleigh Rescue Mission: Shelter and Meals
http://www.raleigh-rescue.org/

Chapel Hill Interfaith Council Community House & Kitchen: Shelter and Meals
http://www.ifcweb.org/services.html

Good Shepherd House: Soup Kitchen
http://www.goodshepherdwilmington.org/Soup_Kitchen.htm

The Lord's Table: Shelter, Food, Outreach, etc.
http://www.thelordstable.org/missions/missions.html

Winston-Salem Rescue Mission: Shelter, Food, Rehab, etc.
http://www.wsrescue.org/


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## Bubba Can Dance (Feb 12, 2006)

I don't usually post, but let my wife, Country Lady, do the posting. She has been keeping me up to date on this thread and I have a few questions I would like answered.
1. Has anyone ever met Kenneth, Star and their daughter? I know some have stated they have met Kenneth, but never read anything about meeting the others.
2. Has anyone met the other HT members that state they know Kenneth and will vouch for him?
3. Does anyone know for sure that Kenneth has all these patents he claims? If he does have them, where is the royalty?
*Questions for Kenneth:* 
What stage of CHF are you in?
What medications are you taking? 
Do you get a weekly IV? 
What is the name of the IV? 
How many pillows do you use at night? 
Why do you find something wrong with every suggestion made to help you except for donations?


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2006)

APPway said:


> read this thread it makes it sound like they are not married to me it is him selling that cook wear and her buying it
> 
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=519806#post519806


 If they're married, that's extremely weird. :shrug:


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

Check out the original SHTF thread. 

Here is a post from "Star" 



> 08-11-2006, 11:20 PM
> Star In N.C. Join Date: Dec 2002
> Location: N.C.
> Posts: 249
> ...


http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=135149&page=6&pp=30

_Yes I guess she does "know the address" since she lives there with him.......!!!_


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

I like that "How many pillows do you use at night?" as an indicator of severity.

My husband has CHF, diabetis and a couple/few others. He doesn't use ANY pillows at night. Good shape, huh?

He just sleeps in a recliner (NOT reclined) every night for the last 2 years because he can't breathe when he reclines AT ALL. Makes it troublesome when he goes to the dentist because they can't tilt him back to work on his teeth.

Mon


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## Country Lady (Oct 2, 2003)

Kenneth and (or) Star, it's time to "fess up". You've been caught! Now I know why Star's family disowned her at 15 (if there is a Star).


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Wow. Looks like we don't need to teach them to fish... they have been doing it for years.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=60089&page=1&pp=30

Oh and this one is good! A whole thread that they talked to themself.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=55072



Kenneth and Star,

My I be the first to suggest that you start mailing checks out to those that you defrauded. I would have to do some more digging, but there may be some legal issues here... I guess the #$%$# really has hit the fan!


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2006)

This is getting weirder and weirder.


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## Gaia (Sep 15, 2004)

Sorry if I'm out of place posting to this thread. I love this forum and would hate to see my account banned over this post, but I feel in my heart that it is something that must be asked. I know I haven't posted on here before, but have been lurking on this site for several (at least four) years now. I have been following this thread and honestly felt for Ken in NC as my husband and I were in struggle to not lose our house due to finances a few years ago ourselves. I don't honestly know Kenneth's situation, he might truthfully be losing his house and in financial debt. I however, do NOT like to see people being used, and I can not help but feel that is exactly what has happened here to the good hearted people of this forum, who generously opened their hearts and pocket books to a "neighbor" in need. 

Something has been seriously bothering me regarding this matter however, and I have seen a common trend happening. It seems there have been many offers (how many received I'm unsure) of everything from a house, to trailers,to gift cards, to food cards, to cash. It was said by Ken that he received "nothing" up to a few weeks ago. 



Kenneth in NC said:


> Boleyz Up until a few weeks ago I have never received a free gift from anyone. I did sell a few flashlights on barter board a while back. JR made his comment back then and no one responded but Star, she mailed me $5 and a cute note saying to have a burger on her. She tryâs so hard to keep my spirits up.


Yet this question was asked, in this same forum by a member on 9/12/06.



homebirtha said:


> I have only read parts of these threads, so if I missed this, I apologize. Can I ask, what about all the money that was sent to you from folks here on HT? Is any of that left to help cover this?


And Ken replied: 



Kenneth in NC said:


> *Where did the money go?* OK, 38 HT people sent gifts. $543.54 went to the utility company to keep the power on. The balance went to cover phone bill. Internet, gas for job search.
> 
> When the bills are so deep it is almost impossible to get out of the hole. The only way anyone can get out of a mess like this is a cash infusion that levels the playing field and having a cash flow (job) that will cover the regular bills after getting flush.


I'm confused by conflicting stories, Star mailed $5, but she's the wife, who lives in the same house with, under the same financial situations/struggles. *boggles*. 

Yes I am very confused by this, and it isn't sitting well thinking those that I enjoy reading about their day with, over a cup of coffee at the computer, might have just been played. I'm sorry but I couldn't sit quiet, I had to finally say something.


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

They tried this on another message board - I think it was the same, exact SHTF post.
They were BANNED before anyone was defrauded.


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

Yes, I would think those that they have defrauded would have legal recourse. I'm thinking that since the money has crossed state lines, it would be a federal law enforcement issue? Hmmmm, maybe Ken and Star won't have to worry about where they're going to be living soon...


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## BellsBunnies (Sep 18, 2004)

MWG said:


> Wow. Looks like we don't need to teach them to fish... they have been doing it for years.
> 
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=60089&page=1&pp=30
> 
> ...



That 2nd thread is a good one - wonder If they have 2 computers or swap places to answer back each other? And IMHO that thread in itself is fraud - him wanting to sell something to the rest of us and her telling how wonderful it is - And since her family disowned her it sure is nice she got them a present - maybe now that she is in need they can help her out a little?

I don't know either of them and do not wish anything bad upon anyone but their is alot of questions that need to be answered but will probably never be - I really hope this can be and is explained.


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## stars01 (Jun 24, 2006)

Well, I learned a good lesson today...did I send money? yep
did I care about them? yep
will I think twice next time? yep
it's too bad

Paula


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Can we relax a bit.

QBVII Kenneth did post over on another forum, and I stood up for them here on the first thread by saying they had had other hard times. This was before it was figured out that Star was Stella.

I have wished them well, and still wish them every best wish to get out of the mess they are in.

I am extremely dissappointed to find out that Star in N.C. and Stella acted as a stranger in this and past threads to appear a stranger to forward whatever Kenneth was selling, or help needing etc. I've had probably at least 100 pm's over the life of this thread about helping them, or from them, and I was the one that called them cause I believed. There have been other people that might have been able to help them and did inquire, but it did not work out.

I think this group of Homesteading people are overall some of the greatest on the Internet. the couple I've met in person and the ones I've talked to via phone and on other boards maintain the personalities I've seen here.

And to Kenneth and Stella - I'm really disappointed that you missed the opportunities for Stella to put her real ideas in and say thanks to others when they helped and for the two of you to be a united front in this problem, not Star in N.C. encouraging others for Kenneth when it was for herself. That appears to me fraud.

Also, to talk of "sanctimonious attitudes" is probably the final nail in the coffin of good public opinion. I was sincerely hoping you would answer Ken S. inquiry in a reasonable and explanatory manner. Your anger does not speak well for character.

I've pulled back from this thread today to see what you would post, and to say it's a disappointment is an understatement.

While I wish you well, I will not speak up for you again.
Take care of your daughter she's an innocent in all this.

Angie


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## Bubba Can Dance (Feb 12, 2006)

*Moderators* , after doing more reading on this thread, I sincerely think it is time to revolk Kenneth, Star and Stella's fishing license.


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## lgslgs (May 30, 2005)

You know - Ken and family are either struggling financially or struggling morally. I personaly believe that the struggle is financial, but they are the only folks who really know. 

Regardless of whether their struggle is financial or moral, hurtful words are still words that hurt. 

If you give a man $1 and he uses it wisely, you should rejoice. But if he uses it unwisely, does that mean you hold the right to pass judgement on him and his family?

In our family - we're not comfortable doing that. We also don't pass judgement on those who feel the need to speak out if they feel that this thread might be dishonest or misleading - so please don't feel that this is personally directed at anyone.

Ken - I hope you can get things sorted out in a way that works for your family. Tough times are frightening. I hope you are finding some good ways to use your time, energy, and funds wisely. And if by chance you have been a bit short on wisdom anywhere along the line, start doing better.

Lynda


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## Tater'sPa (Jun 27, 2002)

Well said Angie


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## moopups (May 12, 2002)

The Inquisition was already done in 1478 in Spain, its not needed here and now. If the static does not back off soon admin will step in and remove all threads (in my opinion).

Ken, I can understand a private joke or familiarity between you and your wife but you let it escape into the public seen area. I did the same with my second wife, but always in private. At this time I highly suggest you PM those whom offered help (mobil units) and take whatever you can get, if such is still available.

Readers, we (Mods and Admin) have been researching this for 4 days and don't think much is unknown. The inconsistencies were reported by a lot of posters. We have even been in public records.

For the record here, I have CHF type 4, diabetes type 2, Ostyo Myelitis, Degenerative Arthritis in my joints, Aspergers Disorder, and other things not normal. Yet I was feeding horses and mucking stalls until a few days back.

It is a publicly known fact that Fla Gal and I share the same roof, we have separate puters, separate accounts, separate realities, that portion works well. There is no deception available here.

Most probably there was no deception intended, just a silly familiarity game that escaped control, but in the future such should not be visible to the outside world.

General Posters, its time to back off, we (as above) are in these chairs, this is our job - you are not judge or jury.

Edited to add; While the above could explain the 'ghost' wife it does not yet explore the second side of the issue, facts are still being gained.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

1. I have met Kenneth, wife and daughter on two occasions. Last year they stopped by the farm to say hello while looking at a property in the general area. The other was this past spring when I went to their place to purchase their remaining stock of the microwave cookware*. Am I considered a reliable source of confirmation?

*Details of transaction are between Kenneth and me so don't ask.

2. They are in legitimate financial do-do. If his wife can continue to work, and GT cuts them a bit more slack, they might be able to keep the mobile. By now she should have a paycheck to perhaps put some towards the payment on the 20th. Again, assuming she continues working, between them and GT there. (And if someone whats to be generous making the payment on the 20th buys them time to the 29th.)

3. There was no particular fraud involved. Kenneth did not request money. He asked for advice. He stated their situation and others jumped in to voluteer to facilitate getting donations to them. I truely believe the initial batch of donations was used as stated by them. If some did go to medications, groceries or such, doesn't particularly bother me - and I did contribute. I do not believe, in any way, any fraud was intended - intentionally or otherwise if that makes sense. IMHO, they do not owe the donations back to anyone and, in fact, one put them in an even deeper financial hole.

4. I know of only one patent which he owns (owned as it may have lapsed), and that was for the microwave steamer cookware. The others were ones he helped others on, such as giving them the concept and they obtained the patent and did the marketing. (For what it is worth, Kenneth is an extremely brilliant individual on things like this. He would have blossomed in a pure R&D center even without an engineer degree.)

5. There are no royalities from the cookware. It sold well (and pricey) for a brief time. Then was largely overcome by advancements in microwave cooking in general. I believe he did receive some monies as the result of the dissolution of the partnership to market it, but that was some ten years ago and wasn't all that much.

6. I accept the $5 posting as essentally a joke as Kenneth explained it. I, like others, do have concerns about the banter back and forth on the cookware. (Oh, what a tangled web we weave...)

Lightened up on Kenneth folks.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Its been said,and its been done.

Now we can sit back and actually see how it plays out,and then we will know what was or wasnt true,at least to a point.

I dont regret my 2 cents sent,was my choice.It wont make me,it wont break me,and I chose to do so.And I still hope it helped.

As for due diligence,it was done.AND it continued to be done.More came forward at a later date as we have seen.I work with facts,not allegations,so I was happy with what we had as Facts. I spent a lot of time checking FACTS,found NOTHING that wasnt aboveboard,but Star in NC slipped under the radar,as it did for ALL of us.

And Im happy with what we have now for making further decisions.

Im sorry for Ken that it has come out this way as they may indeed be in need,but credibility has been brought into question with posts that harm it(From Them).Credibility is paramount,and that credibility has been harmed(by their posts) and cant be fixed now in MY eyes.Looks like 'gaming' the system to me,so I have to accept it as same.Its what we have staring us in face,and I believe my lyin' eyes when I see things.

From what Ive seen posted,and PM'd,I think this situation is now settled to my satisfaction.

Its over.And Im sorry I feel that way.

BooBoo


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Friends, I had considered closing this thread. However, those of us who have been taken in by this alleged scam need a place to air our grievances. So, I will be leaving this thread open for now. Of course, Chuck or MeanDean may have a different idea and close it. 

As far as taking away posting privileges from the threesome (or is it a twosome or possibly a single person?), I cannot do that....only Chuck or MD can do that. It would be my suggestion to allow Kenneth and/or Star and/or Stella an opportunity to further explain what has happened.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

I was going to keep quite about this, but!!! 

When I gave him some back ground about how we coped when we were in really a worse place than his family is in he got angry. I apologized to him publicly and by privite message. I didn't have a good feeling about the first thread he started about their problems, but I went along and kept it to myself. 

I guess I'm just leary about people who post about their problems and accept help money wise so eaisly, yet everytime some gave him some suggestion about how to help themselves he always came back with excuses about how it would not work.

I'm just sorry so many people have been taken for a ride, even I had started believing they were legit. I didn't send any money because my husband and I live on disability. If I had money to help I would help my own kids, one of who is about to loose his house because he lost his job.

Also I think if people had sent me money like the people here did for him. I would have started a thread THANKING those people, instead all I ever saw way once or twice he only said "you guys are great." I kept looking for that THANK YOU but never did.


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## Mountaineer (Jan 1, 2006)

Wow.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Thanks CF,I think you are right.There is more to be heard for now from folks,wise decision for now IMHO.

BooBoo


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

rose2005 said:


> Well I for one do not see how it can be 'over' .


Rose,at some point we all make decisions,Im sorry Ive made mine,and REALLY sorry its come to that.

For me,Im disappointed and wont continue on.
For more than has been posted,and wont be posted by me,But Ive seen enough that questions credibility unfortunately.

Im truly sorry,but Im done with it.

BooBoo


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

I did receive a note from Kenneth thanking me for my contribution towards their outstanding bills. I have to make the assumptions others did as well. The fact he didn't do it publically doesn't bother me - nor would I have wanted a list with me on it.

When I donate to causes locally it is always as an anonymous donor.


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## moopups (May 12, 2002)

Cabin Fever, declaring this a scam is premature, all the facts are not in yet. Equal justice for all as I don my red 'S'ed' jammies and prepare to leap tall buildings...


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Ken Scharabok said:


> I did receive a note from Kenneth thanking me for my contribution towards their outstanding bills. I have to make the assumptions others did as well. The fact he didn't do it publically doesn't bother me - nor would I have wanted a list with me on it.
> 
> When I donate to causes locally it is always as an anonymous donor.


I did too recieve a card.Im very disturbed by the turn of events.

Im with you,anonymous is best,my next contribution in fact was going to be anonymous.

BooBoo


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2006)

Wow, busy thread

*Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 28* (21 members and 7 guests)


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2006)

lgslgs said:


> You know - Ken and family are either struggling financially or struggling morally. I personaly believe that the struggle is financial, but they are the only folks who really know.
> 
> Regardless of whether their struggle is financial or moral, hurtful words are still words that hurt.
> 
> ...


 Good post!


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## boxwoods (Oct 6, 2003)

My thoughts: If there is no impropriety, How are you guys going to take back the words. Let a mod check the ip's, first of all to see if they are the same, and then check back to threads that might have been deceitful. Too many people are taking things for granted without proof.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Whatever else has happened, It's refreshing to see MODS Vs. MODS...

Kenneth and Stella have definitely broken new ground...

The posting about the microwave stuff was *INTENDED TO DECEIVE FOR FINANCIAL GAIN*

Ken, Perhaps you and Moonpups might explain how intentional deception in order to make a sale is NOT a "Scam"...

You might ALSO explain how many "Chances" a scammer can have and still remain in good standing as an HT Member(even if this incidence is not a "scam" in the truest sense, except for the "Ghost Wife").

That would be good to know, because I might try a few up to whatever the limit is...NOT...

Finally, if it's not the job of Mods and Administrators to make "Judgements" and protect the integrity of this "Family Friendly" forum, what, pray tell is their role?

I've been kicked out of threads just for making someone cuss...I didn't agree with that decision, but I figured, Hey, the Mod is just doing his job and keeping things "nice".

Looks to me like it's time to "Step Up" to the plate Mods...Do your duty...protect the integrity of the forum...JMO.

I hope I don't get banned now, but I felt the need to ask for consistency...

BTW...I HAVE been "nice" to Ken...see my earlier post listing homeless shelters...


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## BellsBunnies (Sep 18, 2004)

08-10-2006, 05:59 PM Posted by Kenneth
Hereâs the plan. We cut all nonessentials. Internet and phone paid to August 31. Then itâs off. Weâve started packing clothes, stuff in boxes, bags and what plastic totes we have. My medications exceed $1300 monthly looks like that just became a nonessential. Iâve already sacrificed my gun collection including the ones left by my dad. 
Star posted on 04-18-2006, 03:20 PM 
I had several temp 3 day jobs. Just enough to upset the apple cart. DH medicine now costs over $1200 month. If not for medicaid he'd have to do without. Don't think he would survive with out his meds. I hate having to rely on medicaid cause they threaten to cut him off almost every other month.

This is one of the things I would like to see explained - everyone was worried about him not having his meds -( I think thats what lead to the donations being sent) but according to his wife he already had medicaid. Ok I am finished.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

"Ken, Perhaps you and Moonpups might explain how intentional deception in order to make a sale is NOT a "Scam"..."

I did say I was bothered by it. Did it rise to the level of an outright 'scam' in my opinion, no! IMHO, of course. I caulk it up it up to more of a 'hee, hee, hee' thing.

For the record, I've done some pretty stupid things myself - particularly before going - more or less - on the wagon. Really, I know that is hard to believe, but...


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## SpringCrkAromas (Aug 21, 2005)

Farmer Joe said:


> Wow.


Wow is right.
Situations like this is why I always live by the philosophies of "can't never could do nothin', when you hit rock bottom, start climbing, don't wait for a rope to drop, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and ALWAYS have a plan B."
And before the comments of "you don't know what it's like" start, Oh Yes I Do! 
I feel for ya Kenneth, looks like it's time to climb. Good luck.
Jill


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Since we are all asking questions...

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=95769

If the wife was disowned at 15, why would you guys be attending your wife's family reunion?

Boleyz,

Maybe I am about to get banned? But if I do, at least everything I have said it truthful. Is it that easy to get banned on this site? Either way, I am dissappointed that this whole situation has turned out the way it has, both for their family and the next one that is really needy because we will all pause and question before we help them. 

The real victum in this whole situation is the daughter. If she is home schooled (was able to check this out and it appears she is), then they are her role models. We can argue whether or not this was fraud, but we can agree that it was deceitful.


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## doohap (Feb 23, 2003)

I couldn't finish reading the last few postings in this thread ... I'm so sorry that it's turning out seemingly badly. I must confess I asked for his address, but after receiving it "felt" funny about it. After all, I do believe in feeding the hungry, but really can't afford to be duped.

Kenneth in NC ... prayers for you ...

doohap


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Ken Scharabok said:


> "Ken, Perhaps you and Moonpups might explain how intentional deception in order to make a sale is NOT a "Scam"..."
> 
> I did say I was bothered by it. Did it rise to the level of an outright 'scam' in my opinion, no! IMHO, of course. I caulk it up it up to more of a 'hee, hee, hee' thing.


Pretty weak Ken...IMO...

If I was selling you a car and had a "stranger" who was really my wife, talking up to you about what a great car it was because she had owned it and driven it and loved it, thereby causing you to pay top-dollar for it...

Would THAT be a "hee hee hee thing"?...I doubt it...Probably be legally liable for fraud.

(I'm can't believe I'm debating a Mod...I hope he doesn't think I'm a "Trouble-maker"...I'm just debating a point...) :nerd:


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## cheapskate (May 9, 2006)

I am still glad I helped. I pray that this situation is resolved soon,for everyone involved. This world has enough bigger problems to worry over than this. I certainly wish nothing but the best for Kenneth and his family.


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

I think this one would be covered under 3b or 1 might also work.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fraud

fraud (frÃ´d)
n.
1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3. 
a. One that defrauds; a cheat.
b. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Bolezy:

You conveniently didn't include the rest of my posting.

Ken Scharabok

(And why am I just about the only one on HT not afraid to post my real name as my id?)


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## doohap (Feb 23, 2003)

You know, sometimes I just get tired of debate ... is there any way to "ignore" a thread? :help: 

Peace, love and miles of smiles,
doohap

Just kidding, of course ... I know I don't have to choose to read it or subscribe to it in any way ... but once in, it's hard to opt out until a satisfactory conclusion is met.

Once again, I think prayers are in order and I now opt out of this realm.


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## BearCreekFarm (Jun 24, 2005)

_I'd prefer a crew cab because my mom had her leg removed a couple years back. She can get into a vehicle that has doors but the rear of a extended cab is something she has a real problem navigating. _ 

This was posted by Kenneth barely a month ago. If, as he now claims, they only get a Christmas card from her and no other contact during the year, then why does he need a crew cab pickup truck for her convenience?

Sorry, I'm with Boleyz on this one.
_The posting about the microwave stuff was INTENDED TO DECEIVE FOR FINANCIAL GAIN_, and that constitutes fraud. 

Bear in mind, this was not a one-time, caught in a moment of panic lie on Kenneth's part- if you read his older posts you will find that there is a pattern of inconsistencies from one post to another. This has taken place over the course of several years. You guys (mods) can ban me, too, but I agree that the integrity of the forum is at stake, and action should be taken to ensure that these posters, at least, do not have another chance to dupe the membership.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Ken Scharabok said:


> "Ken, Perhaps you and Moonpups might explain how intentional deception in order to make a sale is NOT a "Scam"..."
> 
> I did say I was bothered by it. Did it rise to the level of an outright 'scam' in my opinion, no! IMHO, of course. I caulk it up it up to more of a 'hee, hee, hee' thing.
> 
> For the record, I've done some pretty stupid things myself - particularly before going - more or less - on the wagon. Really, I know that is hard to believe, but...


I just didn't see the relevance of your last paragraph...We've all done stupid things...agreed...I thought we were talking about fraudulent things...that's why I left it out...

BTW if ya take the Z off my handle...That IS my Name...


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## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

Last spring they were discussing the fine points of which cell phone to get; as if they weren't in the same household. :shrug: How very, very odd. :help: 

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=118907


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

I say at least let them post a reply. Maybe the inconsistancies were due to the daughter (and maybe the other kids) jumping on the computer and posting with their names?  

I am interested in their explaination. I still have additional questions that weren't even on this board. I was looking up what could be done with his property so that he could make it and stumbled upon even more questions...

Kenneth,

I am also interested in the land deal between you and Marshall Vandyke. Why on earth would he pay four times the going price for your land to only split off your current property from his at a "no sale"?

I am also curious how you have stayed under the radar from the county on your current mobile home? You know when they find out that you haven't been paying taxes they are going to back charge you all those years and add a penalty?


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## BearCreekFarm (Jun 24, 2005)

So, in April they had $246 to get a cell phone, but in August they are about to lose their mobile home?

Things that make you go
hmmmm.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

I'm not a suspicious person by nature but have always wondered about 1 thing: why is Ken always needing about $25K to change his life?


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Ken Scharabok said:


> (And why am I just about the only one on HT not afraid to post my real name as my id?)


My name is really BooBoo.
really......You can ask my wife,Mrs BooBoo  

Ok,a little levity....

BooBoo


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

mightybooboo said:


> My name is really BooBoo.
> really......You can ask my wife,Mrs BooBoo
> 
> Ok,a little levity....
> ...



   Nice break for a little humor! Well done!


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

mightybooboo said:


> My name is really BooBoo.
> really......You can ask my wife,Mrs BooBoo
> 
> Ok,a little levity....
> ...


BooBoo...Yer one of my Favorites...Do you and Mrs BooBoo have any Baby BooBoo's? Just curious....


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Boleyz said:


> BooBoo...Yer one of my Favorites...Do you and Mrs BooBoo have any Baby BooBoo's? Just curious....


I bet you could find some BaaBaa sheep at his place!


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

FWIW we mods disagree frequently, but only to be sure we're doing the right thing. Yeah it seems as if we're dragging our feet at times but really we're just trying to do our best, and that takes a bit of time. I'd like to hear from Kenneth in NC too, there's some pretty big discrepencies in his posts over the last while! If nothing else you guys should be proud of coming to Kenneth's aide.


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## stars01 (Jun 24, 2006)

My thanks to the moderators for letting us talk this out, at least for now. It made me feel better. 

Paula


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## moopups (May 12, 2002)

Boleyz, please point out the exact post number where your getting your charge from, I do not remember posting anything about any microwaves. Feel free to place debate, just make sure you have a foundation to speak from. You will not get removed because of debating with me, I am not vindictive because I have earned this unpaid chair.

I asked for the Vets Forum because I have experience within that area. I got suggested for the Shop Talk forum because I was answering that type of question when it was formed.

I have no trouble typing your screen name correctly, why do you insist on typing mine as 'moonpups'? The screen name is moopups, moo as in cows, pups as in little ones; I was raising calves when I got into puters.

Out of curiosity, what is your partners name? Remember that I can search the ISP numbers.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

When I read the initial thread, I actually did feel very bad that someone was losing their home and considered sending a donatin. Talked it over with Cale and had it all ready to go. Then when I came back on the thread and it seemed like every person who tried to give him money-saving advice was ridiculed firmly, I was very suprised at the attitude displayed and changed my mind about mailing the donation. Something about the entire thing did not seem right to me.

When I heard about the Star/Kenneth connection I did a search of posts and found many similarities in their situations, but I was also perplexed about the seeming interaction between them as if they might possibly know each other, but no clue that they were actually married. Not that people have to tell who they are married to, but pretending to purchase and mail items does seem to be to be very misleading. 

I am extremely disappointed at this turn of events. Over the years many people have freely donated to many individuals and this is the first time I feel it has gone very wrong. Taking advantage of people who may not have many financial resources themselves is awful. Do we need to ban these people? I doubt we will have to, because I don't imagine they will post here again...


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## Gaia (Sep 15, 2004)

Moopups, 

I believe this is the thread refered to. It isn't about microwaves, but the containers being sold for use in them. Knowing their married status, (or that's the claim), it leaves more questions now then answers too.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=55072

Hopes this helps clear up the microwave comment confusion.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

moopups said:


> Boleyz, please point out the exact post number where your getting your charge from, I do not remember posting anything about any microwaves. Feel free to place debate, just make sure you have a foundation to speak from. You will not get removed because of debating with me, I am not vindictive because I have earned this unpaid chair.
> 
> I asked for the Vets Forum because I have experience within that area. I got suggested for the Shop Talk forum because I was answering that type of question when it was formed.
> 
> ...


OK MOOpups...I called your name wrong because I never looked at it closely...that yellow banner thingy distracts me...MOO is 3/4 of the word Moon...my eyes deceived me...honest error...I really thought your handle WAS "Moonpups"... a Mis-reading on my part...no offense intended...

FYI I never said that you had posted anything about microwaves...I figured when you came to the defense of Ken and Stella, you had been following the thread and had read this link to a thread which exposes their microwave utinsels "Scam"...

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=55072

All I was saying is that this was obviously intended to deceive in order to make a sale...Mods should oppose people who try to perpetrate scams...not ride to their rescue...

Of course, if you were unaware of this thread, than my apologies for incuding you in my remonstrance..

"Out of curiosity, what is your partners name? Remember that I can search the ISP numbers."

I have no idea what you're talking about here...By "Partner" do you mean Wife? I do have a wife, but she is not a pooter person and has no HT identification...

Search away...I don't have any "Partners" in anything going on here or in the real world...

I am curious as to why you ask....


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Melissa said:


> I am extremely disappointed at this turn of events. Over the years many people have freely donated to many individuals and this is the first time I feel it has gone very wrong. Taking advantage of people who may not have many financial resources themselves is awful. Do we need to ban these people? I doubt we will have to, because I don't imagine they will post here again...


Agreed on your first point. This is a wonderful community who has banded together to help our own at different times and for different reasons. That someone take advantage of members' generosity is wrong in a very basic sense 

I'm not entirely convinced it started out as a scam but perhaps along the way the temptation grew too much to resist milking HT'ers a little more. What it evolved into however at the very least was deceptive and is causing members to question their generosity. Please everyone, don't question your generosity. Give from your heart and don't look back.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

Gaia said:


> Moopups,
> 
> I believe this is the thread refered to. It isn't about microwaves, but the containers being sold for use in them. Knowing their married status, (or that's the claim), it leaves more questions now then answers too.
> 
> ...


That was amazing, bet they set back and had a lot of laughs at that one.


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

Boleyz said:


> ...I do have a wife, but she is not a pooter person...



Boy, I wish my hubby wasn't a pooter person, but at least he's not as bad as the dog! Whew.... :help:


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

My good word is the most important thing I own. Having said that... IF I was wrongly accused of these actions, I would be on the computer 24/7 addressing EVERY question that has arisen, one by one. I would ask the HT members what I could do to prove to them my innocence. There would be no hesitation to respond for I would only be telling the truth and not have to think of a "story" to tell. "Innocent until proven guilty", I really don't think that applies here. I would have expected a lengthly explaination by now. This is sooooooooo sad on sooooooooo many levels. Blessings to all who work so hard and really do care about others...Joan


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

If nothing else, has been an educational experience for the forum.


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## froggirl (Jan 29, 2005)

Ravenlost said:


> Boy, I wish my hubby wasn't a pooter person, but at least he's not as bad as the dog! Whew.... :help:


LOL Ravenlost! I needed a good chuckle!
--f.g.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

One thing these threads have shown me is how good, generous and caring you folks are. You should feel good about _that_ no matter how this turns out.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

In the end, the question is, what did giving do for those who donated? Does the change in the circumstances lessen the spirit of giving that motivated you to send money? 

I feel rotten about this. I really do. I feel I've "known" Kenneth for years -- he's been a member on here for almost as long as I have, and I've known him to be a funny, witty, and encouraging person who never hesitated to bring a thoughtful viewpoint to a thread. I am shocked at the "banter" between he and Star, in light of the fact that they are married. Often in their posts to each other they referred to their respective spouses as though it were a third party, referring to "my DH" and "my DW" while addressing each other. I *DO* feel misled, but in the long run, in the full context of my life, what impact does it have? Have I learned from this situation? Yes. Have I lost anything? Perhaps a little faith in people.

For those of you who have donated, are you any further behind than you were before? No. You sent money. The money is gone. It may have been collected under circumstances that you don't agree with, but you're no further BEHIND than you were -- the only thing you've lost is, perhaps, a little faith in humanity. And you've learned to be a little less trusting of this very anonymous medium we call the internet.

Am I angry? Yes. I am VERY, VERY angry, because some time ago the situation was brought up and I told several people that I had complete faith that Kenneth was on the up and up. Kenneth has been a long-time poster here, and I didn't believe that someone who had been here that long wouldn't have exhibited unmistakeable signs early on. Shysters seldom hang around places where there is no "low hanging fruit" for want of a better term -- there is usually more profitable hunting ground elsewhere, and they're better to spend their time where they can spend it profitably. I am angry because I prayed for this person, for his family, and for all of those who offered their help. I will admit that I had a moment or two this afternoon where I was angry at the fact that, perhaps, my prayers would have been better spent on Hoot today. 

Then I remembered, there is no shortage of prayer. I can feel for both families, for both men, and it takes nothing away from either of them, or from me. I refuse to let this situation change ME -- that would be, by far, the worst loss. 

Tracy


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

katydidonce said:


> I'm not a suspicious person by nature but have always wondered about 1 thing: why is Ken always needing about $25K to change his life?


 I don't know about Kenneth, but it would do ME a world of good


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> In the end, the question is, what did giving do for those who donated? Does the change in the circumstances lessen the spirit of giving that motivated you to send money?
> 
> I feel rotten about this. I really do. I feel I've "known" Kenneth for years -- he's been a member on here for almost as long as I have, and I've known him to be a funny, witty, and encouraging person who never hesitated to bring a thoughtful viewpoint to a thread. I am shocked at the "banter" between he and Star, in light of the fact that they are married. Often in their posts to each other they referred to their respective spouses as though it were a third party, referring to "my DH" and "my DW" while addressing each other. I *DO* feel misled, but in the long run, in the full context of my life, what impact does it have? Have I learned from this situation? Yes. Have I lost anything? Perhaps a little faith in people.
> 
> ...


You're my new Hero...Excellent post...Thank-You for a wonderful perspective...


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## Fla Gal (Jul 14, 2003)

Tango said:


> Please everyone, don't question your generosity. Give from your heart and don't look back.


I've given to others, and I don't look back. It might not come from the person you've given to, but it will, and does come back to you from other people and places. Thanks Tango for the reminder that what goes around comes around.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

WOW this must be one of the hottest threads ever at HT

*Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 49* (36 members and 13 guests)


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

Tracy Rimmer, excellent post!!



Fla Gal said:


> I've given to others, and I don't look back. It might not come from the person you've given to, but it will, and does come back to you from other people and places. Thanks Tango for the reminder that what goes around comes around.


 YES!!

(But have to admit, I didn't send any money. I never felt like I should in this situation).


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## savinggrace (Oct 27, 2005)

:shrug:


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## Tango (Aug 19, 2002)

Okay one more thing then I'll get off of this thread. I have read the microwave cookware thread three times now and it doesn't come across as a scam at all to me. Had to say this to get it off my mind.... It is self promotion, yes. It is deceptive but no more than any advertising is deceptive. Knowing that they are husband and wife now, doesn't make it seem anymore or less deceptive either. Not that this should be a precedent we accept. The part that hurts is that they didn't say "this is an ad." We know when we are watching acommercial to turn our filters on. Kenneth in NC and Star in NC didn't give us that chance. 

And this won't stop me from offering help in the future. When I can give, I will. Like FlaGal, says what goes around comes around.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

"I have an idea-an "Invention" which is actually a modification of an existing item....I don't know where to begin with marketing the idea.

I can compensate him for his time...."

How can I say this without making it an endorsement which might come back to bite me in the a**?

As I said earlier, Kenneth is an extremely intelligent individual when it comes like product ideas. If you want to bounce your idea off of him I would think $20 hour for his evaluation time would be extremely reasonable. You might want to put a cap on the initial evaluation to see if you want to proceed further. (And monies in the hand is of extreme importance to them at the moment.)

As I see it, Kenneth has rather a brilliant mind held back by life happens.


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## Mountaineer (Jan 1, 2006)

Ken S- is Kenneth sitting there with a gun to your back?? The guy ripped off dozens here alone.


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

savinggrace said:


> I have an idea-an "Invention" which is actually a modification of an existing item....I don't know where to begin with marketing the idea.
> 
> I can compensate him for his time....


My recommendation is to keep you idea to yourself and make it happen. If you share it with him and he gets to the patent first you are SOL... That is my $0.02 and is seperate from what has happened here. I wouldn't recommend you telling anyone your idea unless you trusted you life with them.


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Farmer Joe said:


> Ken S- is Kenneth sitting there with a gun to your back?? The guy ripped off dozens here alone.


I was wondering the same thing...

Maybe KenS is really Ken in NC in disguise!


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## Country Lady (Oct 2, 2003)

I can look over a one time lie or deceit if that person comes back and apoligizes and say they were wrong. This was not a one time lie nor has he come back and apoligized and admitted he deceived. My motto is "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" I'm probably a little older than most of you on the forum, and I've probably seen more than some of you. My experience has been when someone says their family won't have anything to do with them, there's usually a very valid reason. That's my first heads up. This is a great forum. Mods and Admin, please do what you can to keep these shysters away.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

MWG said:


> I was wondering the same thing...
> 
> Maybe KenS is really Ken in NC in disguise!



NO he isn't.


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## savinggrace (Oct 27, 2005)

Ken Scharabok said:


> "I have an idea-an "Invention" which is actually a modification of an existing item....I don't know where to begin with marketing the idea.
> 
> I can compensate him for his time...."
> 
> ...



Hi,

I just read through the entire thread. Previously I had gotten to page four. I just deleted my offer because my head hurts.....


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Ken Scharabok said:


> As I see it, Kenneth has rather a brilliant mind held back by life happens.


 I have had the same impression from his posts.

I am ALSO getting the idea that he has been exagerating. 

OK, every person HERE has exagerated! But, everybody ALSO must decide how MUCH they are going to exagerate, and perhaps because Kenneth was broke and worried he has been exceeding the limits. 

I am from a family of eggheads, there are some really bulging brains there! And, I can tell you, really intelligent people are not always wise, just like us ORDINARY people are not always wise!

Kenneth may not be aware that all of this discussion is going on. I will be interested in his response.


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## savinggrace (Oct 27, 2005)

MWG said:


> My recommendation is to keep you idea to yourself and make it happen. If you share it with him and he gets to the patent first you are SOL... That is my $0.02 and is seperate from what has happened here. I wouldn't recommend you telling anyone your idea unless you trusted you life with them.



Thank you. It pays to finish reading a ten page thread after responding on page four!

:baby04:


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

Farmer Joe said:


> Ken S- is Kenneth sitting there with a gun to your back?? The guy ripped off dozens here alone.


 I see it a lot like Ken S does, but I do feel that there was some deceit involved.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Tango said:


> Okay one more thing then I'll get off of this thread. I have read the microwave cookware thread three times now and it doesn't come across as a scam at all to me. Had to say this to get it off my mind.... It is self promotion, yes. It is deceptive but no more than any advertising is deceptive. Knowing that they are husband and wife now, doesn't make it seem anymore or less deceptive either. Not that this should be a precedent we accept. The part that hurts is that they didn't say "this is an ad." We know when we are watching acommercial to turn our filters on. Kenneth in NC and Star in NC didn't give us that chance.
> 
> And this won't stop me from offering help in the future. When I can give, I will. Like FlaGal, says what goes around comes around.


This thread truly has become educational. I had no idea that relativism has brought us so far that we can't call right right and wrong wrong. 

It's "Deceptive self-promotion"...You for got to mention it was done in order to get other people's money...doesn't that fall under the category of "Scam"?

Also, the discovery that they are husband and wife ABSOLUTELY blows the lid off in my mind...

Read it as if you don't know they're married (As they posted it)...sounds like a happy business deal, and more on the way, because it was such a wonderful buying experience...

Then go back and read it knowing that they are married...*BOOM "Scamometer" just exploded.*

Another thing I noticed was this...On that particular thread, Ken put up the original post, and NOBODY responded for 6 or 8 hours...Then, Post #2, talking about what a great guy Ken is and how honest and good and etc...

I can imagine their conversation right before post #2....

"Hey Honey!"

"Yes, Ken Dear?"

"My thread's dropped off the first page and we've got to unload this stuff. How about a Boost from 'Star'?"

"OK Sweetums, What should I say?"

I don't imagine I'm too far off the mark...too bad...


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## savinggrace (Oct 27, 2005)

Karma. That's all I have to add!


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

savinggrace said:


> Thank you. It pays to finish reading a ten page thread after responding on page four!
> 
> :baby04:


But you can whisper it to me.... I'm broke! 


   

Just kidding....


:hobbyhors


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

"Ken S- is Kenneth sitting there with a gun to your back?? The guy ripped off dozens here alone."

Actually I consider that funny. See my previous comments. Hey, I am likely the only one on this entire forum who posts who they really are in real life, and doesn't mind speaking what is on their mind under those circumstances - and you question my doing an artifical endorsement. That wasn't an informercial, but my opinion of the situation - for whatever it might be worth.

"My recommendation is to keep you idea to yourself and make it happen. If you share it with him and he gets to the patent first you are SOL... That is my $0.02 and is seperate from what has happened here. I wouldn't recommend you telling anyone your idea unless you trusted you life with them."

Look, it takes BIG bucks to get a patent. Ain't you just submit a couple of pages of paperwork and the patent office sends you a patent number. His idea might be incredibly brilliant and might be incredible stupid. I'm not in any position to say. Kenneth would be far better qualified, and one should be compensated for their time (and my two were gratis as a result of a previous transaction - see below).

How much do I respect Kenneth in this regard? I bounced two ideas off of him (no payment though) and was told they were no-gos from the start. If one had been, I would consider him extremely far more qualified than myself on how to proceed as he has been there and done that as far as the patent process. You should expect to have to pay for someone else's knowledge/experiences.


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Ken Scharabok said:


> "Ken S- is Kenneth sitting there with a gun to your back?? The guy ripped off dozens here alone."
> 
> Actually I consider that funny. See my previous comments. Hey, I am likely the only one on this entire forum who posts who they really are in real life, and doesn't mind speaking what is on their mind under those circumstances - and you question my doing an artifical endorsement. That wasn't an informercial, but my opinion of the situation - for whatever it might be worth.
> 
> ...


I disagree. You shouldn't have to pay to ask someone's advice. Savinggrace, I am a mechanical engineer that has worked with someone that has gotten several patents. Send me a PM with your questions and I will try to help. 

KenS,

You are correct that they are not cheap. 5K - 25K a piece.


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## Mountaineer (Jan 1, 2006)

Ken- not to nag on you in particlar but wasn't it also you who gave a green light to send Kenneth cash in the beginning? Suggesting he's good for it? I would think a large % of people were swayed by you to send cash.

People like Kenneth get others to pay their bills. Didn't you see the cell phone post? Considering paying a FORTUNE for a cell phone? They had money. I'm sure he 'seems' fine, but look at all the facts here.


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Ken Scharabok said:


> Look, it takes BIG bucks to get a patent.


No, it doesn't. My brother is a 1099 patent examiner for a private law firm; despite having a degree in aero space engineering he earns very little. Egghead dreamer and nice guy. Yet he's managed to pay all associated fees in registering his ideas. Getting a patent takes knowing how to ask questions and how to do research; successfully marketing it requires more or my brother would be very rich!


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

Tracy Rimmer said:


> I can feel for both families, for both men, and it takes nothing away from either of them, or from me. I refuse to let this situation change ME -- that would be, by far, the worst loss.
> Tracy


Both families? Who is the other family? Confused.....

I'm sorry for those of you who were tricked. I would like to think that Kenneth didn't intend to trick people. I think, ultimately, he and his wife are more lazy then ill-intentioned. They had lots of good suggestions of things they could have done to help themselves over the last months and years. But easy money is more appealing then actually having to do something for yourself. But that's their burden to deal with. 

It is a very weird situation. I'm glad the mods are letting folks talk through this and process their feelings. It stinks to be taken advantage of. :-(


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

Ken Scharabok said:


> ...Hey, I am likely the only one on this entire forum who posts who they really are in real life, and doesn't mind speaking what is on their mind under those circumstances...


??? :shrug: ???


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Farmer Joe said:


> Ken- not to nag on you in particlar but wasn't it also you who gave a green light to send Kenneth cash in the beginning? Suggesting he's good for it? I would think a large % of people were swayed by you to send cash.
> 
> People like Kenneth get others to pay their bills. Didn't you see the cell phone post? Considering paying a FORTUNE for a cell phone? They had money. I'm sure he 'seems' fine, but look at all the facts here.



Here's the thread so you can go see who did. I'm on page 8 and Ken S is not in the thread anywhere.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=135149&page=1&pp=30

Angie


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Farmer Joe: I will have to go back and review my comments on first SHTF thread, but on first reading of your comments I don't disagree. At the time I was confident they were in deep financial troubles - and still am today. Yes, I sent money. They needed it then, they need it now. Difference seem to be in the degree of just how much they are willing to help themselves vs depending on others to bail them out.

A lot of water has passed over the dam since then so to speak.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

homebirtha said:


> It is a very weird situation. I'm glad the mods are letting folks talk through this and process their feelings. It stinks to be taken advantage of. :-(


 Agreed.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

I agree with Rose that desperate people do desperate things. I am, however, _*extremely*_ disappointed in Ken for his attitude at being caught; and further, acting like he is the victim. To not even feel an iota of remorse or see that the "Star" connection was _deceptive in itself_, is one that troubles me greatly.

It would seem like if things were on the level, he would have addressed it in an honorable manner, explained himself, and in the very least, apologized for being misleading with regards to the "Star" connection; as well as for any misunderstandings as to their financial situation. 

In other words, a man of honor will take responsibility and admit he screwed up (whether he intended to or not). To be defiant and act like everyone else here did something wrong, shows that Ken's true character is not who we thought he was. 

I keep praying I'm wrong since we go way back to the Lusenet days. This whole thing just makes me very sad. :Bawling:


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## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

This current turn of events was discussed as a distinct possibility way back from the time that the Frugal Squirrel thread was discovered. I remember that in spite of the possibility that something like this might happen ..people chose to help Ken anyway! So why are so many people turning on Ken now as if this current revelation is a total surprise? 

It wasn't very long ago and I was repeatedly vilified for merely questioning Ken's ability to handle money in a responsibile manner. Since then ..I've made peace with Ken via PM's ..and I'm not going to dogpile on Ken now.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Farmer Joe:

You are correct, I endorsed their needs then. I do so (admittedly very proivisionally) now. However, as noted they don't seem to be very proactive as to solving their own problems.

Their entire financial future depends, IMHO, on the wife being able to work enough to support the family. If she can, their current lifestyle may endure from paycheck to paycheck. If not, going 100% on public assistance (a fairly quaint term) may be their only viable option. Really up to them.


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## LiberalCountryBoy (Sep 6, 2003)

Nevermind...

Que Sera Sera


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## Bubba Can Dance (Feb 12, 2006)

Country Lady and I raised two children. Both, would from time to time, try to deceive us. Sometimes they were successful, sometimes not. When they were not, they were punished and if others were involved they were instructed to confess to the others and make things right. If the Admins and Mods want to maintain the integrity of this fine forum, the same process should be followed. If Kenneth, Star and any others involved are not willing to confess and make things right, then they deserve some punishment. I know that some feel that desperate people will make desperate decisions but desperate people also need to be responsible for their bad decisions. When desperate people rob banks, are they just forgiven because of the situation? Some contend that Kenneth did not ask for donations. If he had posted about how great things were for he and his family, would any of you sent money to help him have even greater things in his life?


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## savinggrace (Oct 27, 2005)

Ken I sent you along a PM. I hope it reaches you well,


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## southrngardngal (Oct 18, 2005)

BearCreekFarm said:


> So, in April they had $246 to get a cell phone, but in August they are about to lose their mobile home?
> 
> Things that make you go
> hmmmm.



BearCreek, this could happen. July 2005 we were easily making ends meet. Then my hubby became quite ill. After several months of going to one doctor after another trying to find out his medical problem, we were in so deep that we couldn't buy anything and really thought we were going to have to sell our place to keep from losing it too. 

We learned that Dave Ramsey is right...rice and beans and beans and rice. Not too bad if you add onion and garlic. LOL Plus we disconected anything that we could do without such as: satellite services, cellphone service etc.
We are still working on it but are slowly getting our heads back above the water. 

I guess what I am trying to say is a person/or people can be doing all right one month and the next month something happens and they will be on rock bottom.

Jan


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Karen said:


> I agree with Rose that desperate people do desperate things. I am, however, _*extremely*_ disappointed in Ken for his attitude at being caught; and further, acting like he is the victim. To not even feel an iota of remorse or see that the "Star" connection was _deceptive in itself_, is one that troubles me greatly.
> 
> It would seem like if things were on the level, he would have addressed it in an honorable manner, explained himself, and in the very least, apologized for being misleading with regards to the "Star" connection; as well as for any misunderstandings as to their financial situation.
> 
> ...


I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. At the bottom of all we are or all we desire to be, there must be good *Character*. 

Ken tells us how Brilliant Ken is...he probably is. But what good is Brilliance without Character?

I tried to make this point on the "Splitting a Large Parcel of Land" thread, and was quickly told that actually meeting and getting to know the people involved in such a venture was not as important as finding the right piece of ground.

Without people who have good *Character* no such adventure will fly, no matter how good the ground is.

I guess what I'm saying is that this whole thing just sadly drives home the point that many people are losing a conscience of right and wrong.

I commend those who made donations...At first I thought it was $543 and some change, but after re-reading, I see that That was only the Electric Bill. Ken said the "Balance" went to Phone and some other things I can't remember...

There's really no telling how much money they received...$543 + "Balance" = ???

Anyway, I saw a lot of well-meaning people reach out. It's a shame that now we've all lost our "innocence" and the next real need probably won't see much action...

*Everytime poor character is displayed, it diminishes everyone it touches * (This is a proverb from MOB(Mind of Boleyz). All rights reserved...


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## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

Southrngardengal, if there hadn't been previous financial binds and disasters that would be easier to accept. But if you look back, this SHTF thread is the latest in a series of 'disasters' all involving large amounts of money. If I'm not mistaken, there was one involving $25,000 just a few months before the cell phone thread. :Bawling: 



southrngardngal said:


> BearCreek, this could happen. July 2005 we were easily making ends meet. Then my hubby became quite ill. After several months of going to one doctor after another trying to find out his medical problem, we were in so deep that we couldn't buy anything and really thought we were going to have to sell our place to keep from losing it too.
> 
> We learned that Dave Ramsey is right...rice and beans and beans and rice. Not too bad if you add onion and garlic. LOL Plus we disconected anything that we could do without such as: satellite services, cellphone service etc.
> We are still working on it but are slowly getting our heads back above the water.
> ...


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## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

Bubba Can Dance said:


> If the Admins and Mods want to maintain the integrity of this fine forum, the same process should be followed. If Kenneth, Star and any others involved are not willing to confess and make things right, then they deserve some punishment.


From the start ..I do recall that some of the moderators actually endorsed Ken's own integrity and encouraged donations.

That said ..the moderators here on this forum are very responsible. Since so many members sent monetary contributions to Ken ..I believe the moderators may sense that Ken might need a few days to respond. Also ..many of us members might want to PM Ken and await a PM in response. If Ken were banned right now ..he'd lose the privledge of receiving and sending PM's. That would mean that all members would lose the opportunity to send or receive a PM to/from Ken. 

I'm confident the moderators will take whatever action is necessary to maintain the intregrity of this forum. But I'm also confident that the moderators are going to allow everybody an opportunity to express their view (civilly of course) ..and hopefully allow enough time for Ken to receive PM's and to send replies to PM's.
A week at least ..I hope. Preferably though ..this will somehow turn out on a positive note for HT ..for HT members ..and for Ken ..and we'll all continue to cherish Ken as a long-time member of HT.


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Boleyz said:


> *Everytime poor character is displayed, it diminishes everyone it touches * (This is a proverb from MOB(Mind of Boleyz). All rights reserved...


Or since this thread was left open, it drives home the fact that character IS important and perhaps some of those that might be reading this might be influenced the right way. 

I saw a lot of posts about that GUT feeling that something was off. That also reinforces those that trust their gut feelings. 

So beause we are still able to talk about this, I think we all have learned something and just as others have posted, there are some really great people on this site. People were bringing RVs, trailers, donating money and items, as well as stepping up to travel to his house and get his cottage livable.

Perhaps the daughter has read some of these and realized the consequenses of her parents decisions. 

Our ability to trust has been challenged, that's all. 

And maybe all those prayers for their family were answered. Some people have to hit rock bottom before they get their act together. If everything Kenneth said is true, then they might realize that if they didn't play everyone on this site then they might not have to sleep in their car. Or maybe not...

But diminished? Nah... I was skeptical from the beginning, ask one of the mods. My trust really isn't deminished. But my faith in people is increased seeing how everyone stepped up.


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## Mountaineer (Jan 1, 2006)

Ken S- Sorry for singling you a few posts back. While walking the dog moments ago I felt pretty bad and regretted sending that post in. I had forgotten how the situation was at time. Nobody knew how it'd turn out.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

MWG said:


> Or since this thread was left open, it drives home the fact that character IS important and perhaps some of those that might be reading this might be influenced the right way.
> 
> I saw a lot of posts about that GUT feeling that something was off. That also reinforces those that trust their gut feelings.
> 
> ...


Are you questioning a proverb from MOB? The nerve...You obviously don't realize that Proverbs from MOB are actually dual-use. They can be phrased negatively (As I did) or Positively (As You Did)

That's the great thing about proverbs from MOB...they cause you to think...and consider....and ultimately agree with the MOB...


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

It does seem that Kenneth's financial situation has been deteriorating for some time:

October 2004
http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=60089

May 2005
http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=83745


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## Star In N.C. (Dec 2, 2002)

To those of you on Homesteading today.
1)	I am Kenneth In NC wife. I am real. Not a ghost. 
2)	Kenneth and me never scammed anyone.
3)	Kenneth sent everyone who sent money a Thank you card privately. He did not think he needed to list everyone who sent money openly.
4)	Our power bill was past due and fixing to be cut off on the 30 of August. The money sent went for this bill and to buy the gas to get me to job interviews. So I could help provide for the family. 
5)	We have already received the notice of default from GT. And yes they will come and take our home of the last 10-year away.
6)	We have paid taxes on the mobile every year since we got it. Since it is NOT part of the land it will not show up on the tax for the land. We still have to pay the tax on the mobile and the land.
7)	While Kenneth and his mom do not have a relationship. I still wanted my DD to have a relationship with her grandmother. 
8)	We were think about getting a cell phone BUT NEVER DID
9)	I did send my family cookware. I hoped with that gift my family would see it as an olive branch to get us all back together but it did not happen that way. 
10)	The only family reunion I can think of was when my dad died. No one has bothered to contact me since. The other family reunion was with Kenneth family. The only one that contacts us is his cousin he was raised around and only when she wants something. I know most of you have loving families who come around and talk to you and help you and love you but that is a rare gift not a rule. 
11)	I know this is going to sound STUPID to some people but I can think clearer while typing on the keyboard better then I do in person as I take my time and write out my feeling better this way. I am just that type of person. I am sorry if you think that is strange but no one said you had to be perfect to write on any board. 
12)	We asked for opinions not money, we asked for options, NOT MONEY. We wanted to let everyone know if we no longer were able to post what really happened to us. Nothing more nothing less.
13)	In good times he has his money, I had mine but in hard times all money goes to bills when we have money for them. I had a gun the man wanted so I traded for the gun he wanted. I told Kenneth I bought it. Thought it was none of his business that I let one of my guns go to get his. I was once told you do not have to explain how much the gift cost just the thought behind it.
14)	If you really want to know why my family disowned me was because I am pagan. The loving quote they tell me is âSuffer not a witch to liveâ or âYour going to he11â. End quote. That is why. Kenneth does not believe like I do and I could care less if he does. But when you are raised Baptist you are to die Baptist according to my loving kind family who sit in judgment of me and mine. So yap it is a sore spot with me so I do not like to talk or write or even think about it. It down right hurts to lose you family over religion. So I get crabby when some people start quoting me the bible I think the next phrase will be âSuffer not a witch to liveâ or âYour going to he11â. 

So there you are folks everything explained to the best of my abilities. 
Stella AKA Star in NC


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## BellsBunnies (Sep 18, 2004)

08-10-2006, 05:59 PM Posted by Kenneth
Hereâs the plan. We cut all nonessentials. Internet and phone paid to August 31. Then itâs off. Weâve started packing clothes, stuff in boxes, bags and what plastic totes we have. My medications exceed $1300 monthly looks like that just became a nonessential. Iâve already sacrificed my gun collection including the ones left by my dad. 
Star posted on 04-18-2006, 03:20 PM 
I had several temp 3 day jobs. Just enough to upset the apple cart. DH medicine now costs over $1200 month. If not for medicaid he'd have to do without. Don't think he would survive with out his meds. I hate having to rely on medicaid cause they threaten to cut him off almost every other month.

This is one of the things I would like to see explained - everyone was worried about him not having his meds -( I think thats what lead to the donations being sent) but according to his wife he already had medicaid. Ok I am finished.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

It is kind of telling that old Ken has shared the most intimate personal details of his financial and health situation for several years, But he forgot to mention that his #1 fan and customer, Star, was his wife...

He says, "No one Ever Asked me"...Well, Why would they when you guys were posing as strangers and telling each other that your "DH" or "DW" said...(whatever)...

And I'm saying, if he ever does return to post...How about some "Full Disclosure" on the total amount of donations?

I'd like to know what the un-named "Balance" amounted to...Just so I can brag on this forum's members even more...


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Of course, there was always Alaska.


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Star In N.C. said:


> 6)	We have paid taxes on the mobile every year since we got it. Since it is NOT part of the land it will not show up on the tax for the land. We still have to pay the tax on the mobile and the land.
> 
> 13)	In good times he has his money, I had mine but in hard times all money goes to bills when we have money for them. I had a gun the man wanted so I traded for the gun he wanted. I told Kenneth I bought it. Thought it was none of his business that I let one of my guns go to get his. I was once told you do not have to explain how much the gift cost just the thought behind it.


Not according to the tax cards. Compare the mobile home three lots down. Either way, I am not going to tell so as long as you don't get caught, who cares right? Just know that you will get HAMMERED when they find out. I didn't know that you were supposed to list boats on your property taxes and my countt hammered me for 5 years back taxes, interest, late payment penalties and non list fines. And this can be tied to your land. (The IRS and the government always gets their money) I don't want you to make the payments and get back on your feet to suddenly find this out. Once you get back on your feet, you might want to start saving for this day that might or might not come. Their double wide is valued at 46K. This includes the deck, masonry stoop and deck. 

Just a question on the guns. Do you still have them?


----------



## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

Star, if your posts weren't meant to decieve then why would you say you were going to help Ken? You don't see this as deceptive? :shrug: 

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?p=1573714#post1573714



> #161 08-12-2006, 12:20 AM
> Star In N.C. Join Date: Dec 2002
> Location: N.C.
> Posts: 250
> ...


----------



## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

Boleyz said:


> I'd like to know what the un-named "Balance" amounted to...Just so I can brag on this forum's members even more...


I disagree. Since the money was ..strictly speaking ..unsolicited ..then the only amount that anybody really has a right to know is the amount that they personally gave. 

And those who did not send a monetary contribution have no kindling in the fire.


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Star In N.C. said:


> To those of you on Homesteading today.
> 1)	I am Kenneth In NC wife. I am real. Not a ghost.
> 2)	Kenneth and me never scammed anyone.
> 3)	Kenneth sent everyone who sent money a Thank you card privately. He did not think he needed to list everyone who sent money openly.
> ...


Its kinda late. I'm tired and a little cranky. Since things are a little cloudy right now, can I just ask...

Was that an apology? 


(And just to set the record straight, did I mention that I'm married to Wind in Her Hair and she is my wife and I am suprisingly, her husband?)


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## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

The wedding pictures kinda gave away your secrets.  



Cabin Fever said:


> Its kinda late. I'm tired and a little cranky. Since things are a little cloudy right now, can I just ask...
> 
> Was that an apology?
> 
> ...


----------



## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Qwispea said:


> I disagree. Since the money was ..strictly speaking ..unsolicited ..then the only amount that anybody really has a right to know is the amount that they personally gave.
> 
> And those who did not send a monetary contribution have no kindling in the fire.


OK...That's the great thing about disagreeing...you can be wrong if ya want to...


----------



## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

Boleyz said:


> OK...That's the great thing about disagreeing...you can be wrong if ya want to...



Right you are! And you know what? I can also be wrong even when I _don't_ want to! Amazing ..isn't it? :nerd:


----------



## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

BTW Boleyz ..Could you go say something in the 'other' thread ..just to keep it going? I could use ..and would certainly appreciate ..a bit of your humor over there this evening! :dance:


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## sancraft (Jun 7, 2002)

Tracy Rimmer,

I would have been worse off for sending money. I had the money order bought and ready to mail when I got a PM from 2 members telling me to recheck the thread. I am in a tedious situation at best with my own family. I was willing to give out of my own need to help someone I thought was in the same (actually better) situation that I was in last year. Several members sent gifts of cards, books, and money to help me. It really helped. In every instance I was needing something and didn't have the funds and check would come for the exact amount that I was short. We're living in a 12x30 hunting cabin without running water, septic, heat, insulation, flooring, etc. My neighbors have called code enforcement (several times), DFACS twice, the Environmental Protection Agency, and the Health Dept. They shot and killed my dog. Killed my goat. My job cut me to part time. I'm driving 2 1/2 hrs. each way to work. My bills are behind. I'm trying to figure a way to get something warm up before winter. I was getting food stamps of $285.00 per month, but now that my ex-husband is paying $200.00 a month child support, they cut them to $61.00 per month. And because my caseworker did something wrong, I didn't even get that this month. 

But I was giving willingly to show the love and support that I receive here. I can't believe that he and his wife would plot to cheat people. I have Type II diabetes, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrone, Thyroid disorder and a Pituatary tumor. I work my part time job in Atlanta. An at home job for HSN and am starting a new phone job tonight that I really, really, really don't want to do, but I have to bring some money into this house. 

I hope he can sleep at night. My daughter, as soon as I told her what was going on with him said, "we've got to help him". I pray that God helps him.


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## Star In N.C. (Dec 2, 2002)

Boleyz,
You are truely an @$$.
Kenneth and Me has never said anything but thank you to everyone who has helped us in one way or another. I do not laugh at people helping me. Maybe you think it is funny to get in such bad shape but I do not. I do NOT think that people helping us is a joke if you do then your one SICK Jerk. 

Oh yea Kenneth took a pain pill and went to bed early. I am sure he will have a lot to say tomorrow on this subject.

I for one have been packing to move us out to the building. So no I have not been keeping up with this thread. But I hope you can see why no reply until now. 

I often talk about my hubby as a third party.


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## BearCreekFarm (Jun 24, 2005)

_13)	In good times he has his money, I had mine but in hard times all money goes to bills when we have money for them. I had a gun the man wanted so I traded for the gun he wanted. I told Kenneth I bought it. Thought it was none of his business that I let one of my guns go to get his. I was once told you do not have to explain how much the gift cost just the thought behind it._

Well, I guess if you think it is ok to lie to your spouse, lying to a bunch of strangers on an internet forum doesn't seem like such a big deal after all.


----------



## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

This has to be the saddest thread I've ever read. To think hard working, honest, financially struggling members were willing to share their meager income with another member only to find out that much was smoke & mirrors. :grump: :nono: :Bawling: 

As another poster mentioned; Karma will have the last laugh.

And Star if you're really Pagan, I don't know if you're Wiccan or not but Wiccans have a nice little belief called the Threefold Law. 
You might want to look it up.


----------



## BearCreekFarm (Jun 24, 2005)

BTW- several people have asked about Kenneth's Medicaid benefits. You stated that without that assistance he would not have the meds, yet he claimed (in the post that started all this mess), that he could not afford them anymore. In spite of repeated requests, no explanation has been offered for that discrepancy.

And, here's a concept- according to your and Kenneth's previous posts, you have been in financial trouble for many years. So, why not SELL the guns and use that $$$ to pay some bills?

And I myself am curious- in one of his previous recent posts Kenneth stated that as of Aug 31st the phone and internet would be cut off. Wow, today is Sept 16th and you still seem to have internet access. Was it just too lucrative to shut it down?


----------



## Country Lady (Oct 2, 2003)

Star In N.C. said:


> Boleyz,
> You are truely an @$$.
> Kenneth and Me has never said anything but thank you to everyone who has helped us in one way or another. I do not laugh at people helping me. Maybe you think it is funny to get in such bad shape but I do not. I do NOT think that people helping us is a joke if you do then your one SICK Jerk.
> 
> ...


So he went to "bed" early huh? How many pillows does he sleep on?? My husband had CHF for one year before his heart transplant and could never lay down in bed. He spent that year sleeping sitting in a recliner. I'm not sure, did I hear an apology?


----------



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Star In N.C. said:


> Boleyz,
> You are truely an @$$.
> Kenneth and Me has never said anything but thank you to everyone who has helped us in one way or another. I do not laugh at people helping me. Maybe you think it is funny to get in such bad shape but I do not. I do NOT think that people helping us is a joke if you do then your one SICK Jerk.
> Oh yea Kenneth took a pain pill and went to bed early. I am sure he will have a lot to say tomorrow on this subject.
> ...


Okay...its REALLY late and its REALLY waaayyy past my bedtime....

and I'm reeeeeealllly having a hard time following all this but...

was _*that*_ an apology?


----------



## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

Star In N.C. said:


> Boleyz,
> You are truely an @$$.
> Kenneth and Me has never said anything but thank you to everyone who has helped us in one way or another. I do not laugh at people helping me. Maybe you think it is funny to get in such bad shape but I do not. I do NOT think that people helping us is a joke if you do then your one SICK Jerk.
> 
> ...


Hmm, both of them are passive agressive.


----------



## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

Star In N.C. said:


> Boleyz,
> You are truely an @$$.
> Kenneth and Me has never said anything but thank you to everyone who has helped us in one way or another. I do not laugh at people helping me. Maybe you think it is funny to get in such bad shape but I do not. I do NOT think that people helping us is a joke if you do then your one SICK Jerk.
> 
> ...


I believe it was Will Rogers who said: "When you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

OBTW, Rose2005 is my DW


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## BearCreekFarm (Jun 24, 2005)

Poor Cabin Fever.

Want some advice? Don't wait up for an apology, lol!

Say, did I ever mention here on the forum that Jackpine Savage is my husband? I'm sure I must have, since we MET through this forum. But hey, maybe it slipped my mind. And, say, that would make me, his wife! Wow!


----------



## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

BearCreekFarm said:


> Poor Cabin Fever.
> 
> Want some advice? Don't wait up for an apology, lol!
> 
> Say, did I ever mention here on the forum that Jackpine Savage is my husband? I'm sure I must have, since we MET through this forum. But hey, maybe it slipped my mind. And, say, that would make me, his wife! Wow!


OK, I have been trying to keep good notes, but I will have to ask the mods for a huge favor. Is there any way to add Sig Other: under the join date and location up in the RH corner? I can't keep up with who is with who and the first time I put BearCreekFarm with the mighty booboo everyone is going to get in a huge fight! :grump:


----------



## lgslgs (May 30, 2005)

My hubby doesn't post on this forum - but he does get posts read to him once in a while!

Lynda


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## BearCreekFarm (Jun 24, 2005)

ooohhhh man, Jackpine Savage isn't going to like that at all!

edited to add:
sorry BooBoo, don't take that personally.


----------



## Southernman (Aug 21, 2005)

Star In N.C. said:


> Boleyz,
> You are truely an @$$.
> Kenneth and Me has never said anything but thank you to everyone who has helped us in one way or another. I do not laugh at people helping me. Maybe you think it is funny to get in such bad shape but I do not. I do NOT think that people helping us is a joke if you do then your one SICK Jerk.
> 
> ...




If you can't explain it, just call your accusers names, that'll solve it. I'm going to bed, this drama is giving me a headache. and no, I didn't send any money, knew better.


----------



## frazzlehead (Aug 23, 2005)

MWG said:


> I can't keep up with who is with who and the first time I put BearCreekFarm with the mighty booboo everyone is going to get in a huge fight! :grump:


Oh my, THAT made me laugh!

Frazzlehead, whose SO gets updated on the messages regularly but does not post himself. 

oi! what a zoo this is ...

Kenneth (and Star?) I hope you get your mess sorted out. Next time, try just being up front about it all and things'll go much smoother.


----------



## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Star In N.C. said:


> Boleyz,
> You are truely an @$$.
> Kenneth and Me has never said anything but thank you to everyone who has helped us in one way or another. I do not laugh at people helping me. Maybe you think it is funny to get in such bad shape but I do not. I do NOT think that people helping us is a joke if you do then your one SICK Jerk.
> 
> ...


Seems Like I'm always the first one to be cursed...wassup with that? There's NO WAY I can be an A-- ... I haven't gotten anyone's money except my own...

When did I say it was funny? I think it's great that people gave...If I'm Anything...it's Honest...instead of cursing me, why not answer the questions of others?

CF - "Was That an Apology"?

Arkie 1 - "Star, if your posts weren't meant to decieve then why would you say you were going to help Ken?"

And please, explain the cookware thread, where you guys were evidently mailing money and utinsels back and forth...Was That deceptive?

Maybe a bit of humility, rather than anger is in order...You guys HAVE been deceptive, and many people feel taken in...your angry responses aren't helping soothe people's feelings...


----------



## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

BearCreekFarm said:


> ooohhhh man, Jackpine Savage isn't going to like that at all!
> 
> edited to add:
> sorry BooBoo, don't take that personally.


Great, just the mention and I am going to be labeled as a homestead wrecker!

:Bawling: :Bawling: :Bawling:


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

No Cabin it wasn't an apology but get some sleep, nothing much productive can happen until the morning. 

BTW Shepherdess is my DW (not The Shepherdess although I'm sure she's a fine person) and Ford Major is my Brother. Might be a useful sticky thread to list these connections somewhere?


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## clovis (May 13, 2002)

I think a few folks on this board may be a little harsh at this point, and may be jumping to conclusions.
I too have had a raised eyebrow about their situation, but have still kept them in my prayers.
*I am curious though, when I offered this past week to, in essence, make a payment to Greentree on the MH, Kenneth politely refused my offer. He stated that my money would be wasted, since they had decided to let the MH get repossessed. You should also know that he basically declined any type of monetary gift, but was thankful, nonetheless.
*
*If he were really a scam artist, why wouldn't he take my money????*

If there is any question about this, have one of the mods open up my PM box and read for themselves!
clove


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

I have no DH or SO on the internet, let alone this forum. Just so everyone knows.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

clovis said:


> I think a few folks on this board may be a little harsh at this point, and may be jumping to conclusions.
> I too have had a raised eyebrow about their situation, but have still kept them in my prayers.
> *I am curious though, when I offered this past week to, in essence, make a payment to Greentree on the MH, Kenneth politely refused my offer. He stated that my money would be wasted, since they had decided to let the MH get repossessed. You should also know that he basically declined any type of monetary gift, but was thankful, nonetheless.
> *
> ...


 That makes me feel a _little_ better about him. But there are still some strange inconsistencies in his postings.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

> If there is any question about this, have one of the mods open up my PM box and read for themselves!
> clove


 *You* are the only one who can open your PM box Clovis, maybe Fwd it to Chuck or Cabin?


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## Country Lady (Oct 2, 2003)

clovis said:


> I think a few folks on this board may be a little harsh at this point, and may be jumping to conclusions.
> I too have had a raised eyebrow about their situation, but have still kept them in my prayers.
> *I am curious though, when I offered this past week to, in essence, make a payment to Greentree on the MH, Kenneth politely refused my offer. He stated that my money would be wasted, since they had decided to let the MH get repossessed. You should also know that he basically declined any type of monetary gift, but was thankful, nonetheless.
> *
> ...


Clovis, think about it. You made an offer to make a payment to Green Tree. If you had made the offer to send Kenneth the money for him to make the payment, do you think it would have been refused?


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

clovis said:


> I think a few folks on this board may be a little harsh at this point, and may be jumping to conclusions.
> I too have had a raised eyebrow about their situation, but have still kept them in my prayers.
> *I am curious though, when I offered this past week to, in essence, make a payment to Greentree on the MH, Kenneth politely refused my offer. He stated that my money would be wasted, since they had decided to let the MH get repossessed. You should also know that he basically declined any type of monetary gift, but was thankful, nonetheless.
> *
> ...


Did you offer to send a check to HIM made out to HIM or made out to Greentree? OR, did you offer to send it directly to Greentree? 

I hope we're ALL wrong, and that they're as pure as the wind-driven snow...but that Cookware thread....hmmmm...


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## katydidagain (Jun 11, 2004)

Does anyone know if there even is a mortgage due to GT? _Really_? I still wonder what happened to the IRS bill of $25K+ due on his father's estate; was there a resolution I missed? What about the move to Alaska mentioned in 2005 and again this past August? Perhaps I have no right to say a word since I didn't send money; I have none to spare. I'm not naturally suspicious but am learning to be; I'm still married to my con artist who stole my soul and much more for 1/2 my life. He also stole my identity once I finally grew a backbone and kicked him out; without me to 'suck dry', he's shown his true colors. 99% of the people in this world are good; it's that 1% that kick you in the teeth--hard. 

I'm fighting back; maybe old dogs can learn new tricks? (BTW, he doesn't post here; he doesn't know how to turn on a computer.)


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

I actually started a thread in support of the first SHTF...

http://homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=135450

I got the address and was going to send some coin, but had some distractions and postponed it...so in the interest of "Full Disclosure", 

I didn't send any money...I procrastinated...

Also, my wife does NOT have an ID on HT...so if you see me posting, it's really me...


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## MWG (Aug 14, 2006)

clovis said:


> [/B]
> *If he were really a scam artist, why wouldn't he take my money????*
> 
> 
> clove


Perhaps he didn't want you to call GT to find out the trailer really isn't behind payments? or really financed at all?

Maybe the trailer is already repossessed?

But that really makes me wonder now? Why _wouldn't_ he take the payment? Because they decided to let it go? But alas, there is a ray of hope and they can keep it and they turned it down? Seriously, this makes me doubt the whole story more now... were I in his situation I would jump at the chance to keep it since my DW now had a job and could start making payments.

I tried to put myself in his situation during this whole thing and that is what gave me the funny feeling. His answers were the exact opposite of what I would have typed.


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## Gaia (Sep 15, 2004)

I'm still boggled and confused by all this.

I don't understand the hostility towards people that IMHO have every right to question the more then confusing controversial postings done. These people opened their wallets to aid you, those that couldn't opened their hearts to pray for you. I am not pagan, but they, to my limited knowledge, hold a sacredness to offering prayers to their god/goddess's. Yet these same people are returned with anger for being confused by this all?

I for one do hope that Kenneth comes tomorrow to "say a lot tomorrow on this subject". I honestly don't know how much can be said other then "thank you" and "I'm sorry." Anger and bitterness at people that paid YOUR bills (including internet, phone, electric and gas for YOUR car) will not go a long ways towards showing good face. 

Can you be upset that people question if they were taken for the fool? Sure you can, but in turn you have to realize that they are taking your own words, posts, and "in-house" conversations between yourselves to try to figure this all out. "Most" married couples do not post like total strangers buying and selling wares between each other, or "mailing $5 checks" to each other. And those conversations are far different then speaking in third party about ones mate. 

I'm sorry you won't like my take on the situation, but I do pray now that your at the bottom of the hill, you get your feet under you and though perhaps the hardest thing in your life you ever did, not only learn to stand on them again but start to climb.


----------



## Terri (May 10, 2002)

For what it is worth: Mobile homes do not HAVE to be taxed as part of the property. They are often taxed as automobiles instead.

Uncle Sam is not really fussy about what you call them, as long as they collect the money.


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## charles burns (Mar 21, 2006)

Oh dear.

On reflection I think the whole thread has been worth the $10.00 I was duped out of in entertainment value. 

I have visions of of Ken emailing an imaginary wife then putting on a frock, running into the next room and emailing himself back.

Ken the moderator is the other Ken's father who is trying desperately to keep his psycho son from being discovered and taken away.

I never received a thank you note for the donation (never expected one, was even worried about them sending one when the cost of a stamp could be better used if you can believe that). I mention this only because Ken in a frock from the other room stated that every doner had received a thank you card.

I was a little surprised to see the original shtf thread allowed way back when but did find it credible. I have to say the positive character references from moderators did sway my judgement to the charitable side. That said, I am over 21 and the moderators are very real people (thankfully) and I wouldn't like them any other way.

Moderators - no offence to your good selves intended, you must be hurting more than most over this drama.

Ken in NC - you are your own punishment and only you know how harsh that is.


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## froggirl (Jan 29, 2005)

charles burns said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> On reflection I think the whole thread has been worth the $10.00 I was duped out of in entertainment value.
> 
> ...


I think this is my favorite post so far.....  
--f.g.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

charles burns said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> On reflection I think the whole thread has been worth the $10.00 I was duped out of in entertainment value.
> 
> ...


 LOL An entertaining and grounded post for an "entertaining" and not-so-grounded thread.

Who needs soap operas, anyhow?


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

> Ken the moderator is the other Ken's father who is trying desperately to keep his psycho son from being discovered and taken away.


 That's quite an imagination!!  We share the same approach to giving money though, what can be spared is shared with not alot of afterthought given to it. There's some legit questions out there left unanswered but certainly a thanks to Star for starting off with the answers she has!


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

Ross said:


> That's quite an imagination!!


 I like the one where Kenneth is wearing a frock and running back and forth between 2 computers having a convo with himself. :rotfl:


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Here's a rather old photo of Ken...in better times...


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## froggirl (Jan 29, 2005)

Boleyz said:


> Here's a rather old photo of Ken...in better times...


Now that's just mean.  
--f.g.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

froggirl said:


> Now that's just mean.
> --f.g.


Well, When he had on his frock awhile ago, I was the only one he cursed...

I think I'm taking it very well... :baby04:


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## charles burns (Mar 21, 2006)

No wonder his electric bill was $500.00 - look at the AC unit he's got on top of that trailer!


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Farmer Joe said:


> Ken S- is Kenneth sitting there with a gun to your back?? The guy ripped off dozens here alone.


ROTFL what a picture maybe we need to notify the authorities if he was I am sure he could not tell us.
I just caught up to this thread again when I was PM'd last night about the thread, it was to late at night here at the time. I will be commenting more later May have to go to work and comment tonight or tomorrow Hope it is not locked down before I get my say. Taking my time reading and thinking


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Boleyz said:


> This thread truly has become educational. I had no idea that relativism has brought us so far that we can't call right right and wrong wrong. TELL me about it!
> 
> Then go back and read it knowing that they are married...*BOOM "Scamometer" just exploded.*
> 
> ..


ROTFL scamometer LOL I love you Boyleyz


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Farmer Joe said:


> Ken- not to nag on you in particlar but wasn't it also you who gave a green light to send Kenneth cash in the beginning? Suggesting he's good for it? I would think a large % of people were swayed by you to send cash.
> 
> People like Kenneth get others to pay their bills. Didn't you see the cell phone post? Considering paying a FORTUNE for a cell phone? They had money. I'm sure he 'seems' fine, but look at all the facts here.


Actually It was also Angie? or was it melissa? that when people questioned his activity on another board said they called him and had a nice talk and he seemed to be on the up and up.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

homebirtha said:


> It is a very weird situation. I'm glad the mods are letting folks talk through this and process their feelings. It stinks to be taken advantage of. :-(


"Letting" I imagine if they did not let folks share their feelings on the subject their would be a lot less folks left at HT.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Karen said:


> I agree with Rose that desperate people do desperate things. I am, however, _*extremely*_ disappointed in Ken for his attitude at being caught; and further, acting like he is the victim. To not even feel an iota of remorse or see that the "Star" connection was _deceptive in itself_, is one that troubles me greatly.
> 
> It would seem like if things were on the level, he would have addressed it in an honorable manner, explained himself, and in the very least, apologized for being misleading with regards to the "Star" connection; as well as for any misunderstandings as to their financial situation.
> 
> ...


DITTO this that is exactly what I feel and would have written, I have afew more things to add but will later if their is time after work or tomorrow


----------



## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Qwispea said:


> This current turn of events was discussed as a distinct possibility way back from the time that the Frugal Squirrel thread was discovered. I remember that in spite of the possibility that something like this might happen ..people chose to help Ken anyway! So why are so many people turning on Ken now as if this current revelation is a total surprise?
> 
> It wasn't very long ago and I was repeatedly vilified for merely questioning Ken's ability to handle money in a responsibile manner. Since then ..I've made peace with Ken via PM's ..and I'm not going to dogpile on Ken now.


Yes that is right just say it TOLD YOU SO!


----------



## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

southrngardngal said:


> I guess what I am trying to say is a person/or people can be doing all right one month and the next month something happens and they will be on rock bottom.
> 
> Jan


Yeah if someone is spending $246 on a cell phone I can see how that might happen. Wonder what else they were spending $ on?


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Star In N.C. said:


> So there you are folks everything explained to the best of my abilities.
> Stella AKA Star in NC


Maybe to the best of your abilities but everything is far from explained


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Qwispea said:


> I disagree. Since the money was ..strictly speaking ..unsolicited ..then the only amount that anybody really has a right to know is the amount that they personally gave.
> 
> And those who did not send a monetary contribution have no kindling in the fire.


I cant believe this typical you switching sides now to play.


----------



## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Star In N.C. said:


> Boleyz,
> You are truely an @$$.
> .


I think not.
and my mind has been made up for some time, I think anyone supporting these two at this point would be people that I would prefer to stay away from. I am glad that I had a burning in my boosum about this matter and despite my ability to give did not do so. I have given to folks I did not even like because they asked me in the past and (i thought it was the Christian thing to do) to the toon of thoasands, much was never and will not be returned. Now I have a family and kids and They are my primary responsibility I am by no means rich and again I thank God that I had a feeling that something was not right here. Maybe some of you can go along with what I think it was Tracy said but If I had given them $ I would always Rue it. Another thing I dont want to hav eanything to do with folks who cuss especially at other peopel I have NEVER done that and see enough cussing in the army with out seeing it at HT.


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Cabin Fever said:


> Okay...its REALLY late and its REALLY waaayyy past my bedtime....
> 
> and I'm reeeeeealllly having a hard time following all this but...
> 
> was _*that*_ an apology?


ROTFL


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

MWG said:


> Hmm, both of them are passive agressive.


LOL


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

MWG said:


> I can't keep up with who is with who and the first time I put BearCreekFarm with the mighty booboo everyone is going to get in a huge fight! :grump:


Your booboos wife?


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## jnap31 (Sep 16, 2005)

Dang out of time and did not finish reading all of it yet!


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

jnap31 said:


> Dang out of time and did not finish reading all of it yet!


G'nite Jnap...You covered most ot the bases. Have a good one...


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## Belly Acre (May 1, 2006)

Ken,
My husband worked for a while for a retail mobile home distributer and was wondering if you are SURE that the property that the home financed by Greentree Financial is sitting on isn't rolled into the finances of the home. He said the company that he worked for used the property for collateral to the finances of the home. Just another question you may want to read your paperwork very closely before you think you are letting go of the home and loose everything.


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

Keep in mind sometimes extremely intelligent people can be extremely poor money managers.

If someone lives off of one-time income sources sooner or later the S does HTF. 

Heck, how many stories have you heard about lotto winners blowing through their winnings quickly and ending up in worst financial condition than previous.

How many people do you see around you who live for today with little, if any concern, about how to live tomorrow. I hire local guys to work on the farm. Usually most I can get out of them is a couple of days - if they even show up at all. Almost all volunteer how desperate their financial condition is, but after being paid likely they make three stops on the way home - a beer/liquor store, a tobacco outlet and a local pot/drug dealer. The landlord can wait longer for the rent.

I have a sister/BIL in an area of continuing home appreciation annual increases. About every other year they refinance to take out the accumulated equity. Fine, but she is coming up on 59 and BIL is something like 64. If they ever do retire they will have only whatever retirement system(s) bring in as they certainly won't have any nestegg from their property. And, in fact, likely won't even be able to afford to make house payments. I call it the Scarlett O'Hara effect: "Tomorrow is another day." Am I going to be inclined to assist them financially - no.

I have a brother who has been 'white trash' pretty well his entire life. If he called and said they were being evicted and their only option was to sleep in their car in an alley my response would be to tell them to be sure to lock the doors at night. I don't see it as uncarrying, but more he has made his own life choices.

So, yes, having family and having family being willing to help are different aspects.

I believe some of you are misinterpreting Star's pagan comment. I read it as she simply decided to drop out of the religion the rest of her family felt strongly about. Seems to happen quite often. A while back there was a thread about the Amish and it was said if a child leaves the Amish faith as far as the family is concerned they pretty well cease to exist as they would not be welcomed back home.

In my opinion Kenneth make the right call in letting the mobile go if, and that is a big if, they spend the same $250 month to keep fixing up the cottage for a while. There they are increasing the value of the cottage. With the mobile they are paying on something with a declining value. Today a single-wide on a property can actually have a negative value in the cost to have it disposed of.

I rather doubt the forum administrators really care about who is closely associated with another member. However, I agree the Kenneth/Star/cookware exchange did cross a line somewhere there.

P.S. To avoid confusion please refer to Kenneth as Kenneth and to me as either Ken or, better yet, Ken S.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

Is it a wonder his blood sugar was so high. And why would a loving wife cook something like this for her "sever diabetic husband."

That is just putting nails in his coffin.


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

Sorry forgot to add the link to the post I was referring to in the above post.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=134150


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Folks, a bit earlier I posted about how intelligent some of my relatives were. Do you know those big computers that the hospital chains use? My cousin fixes those when they go down.

Not the HOSPITAL computers, those are too small to justify his company. The hospital CHAIN computers!

Smart people are no more wise than the rest of us. I love my cousin, he was my best friend while we were growing up. But, while he is CLEVER, WISDOM was what he learned growing up, just like the REST of us!

Kenneth can be as smart as a whip, but still make just as many mistakes and have just as many foibles as the guy you bump into at the grocery store.

Kenneth has managed to get himself into deep financial doo-doo AND tick off most of the people here. He has NOT been wise. And, in my opinion he want rather too far in what he PROBABLY TOLD HIMSELF was salesmanship!

He was not wise. 

Sometimes people are not.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

And, Kenneth? Like me, I suspect that you over-eat when you are under stress. Please DON'T! You need your health right now and so does your family! Don't make it worse by trashing your system! 

I don't CARE that life is hard, get those fingers off of the carbs! :nono: Things may be hard now, but you really CAN make them worse! :nono: Your daughter needs you, and so does your wife. So, FOLLOW the darned DIET!!! There are things you need to do.


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

froggirl said:


> Now that's just mean.
> --f.g.


Yeah, Boleyz, it is mean. What did Richard Nixon ever do to you?


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## moopups (May 12, 2002)

Do not all concerned realize this thread has no end? There is ample display of misdirected innuendos, basic stupidity, useless info. This is a waste of energy, not to mention the vast amount of electrons that are inconvenienced via this waste of resources. Its called 'the food chain', the strong survive, the weak do not.

Its time to move on, there is no profit here concerning time or energy; lost, consumed resources, wasted expenditure's. Those whom are doing their 'yap dog' imitations are now well displayed and documented, this exercise in futility needs to be over. Maybe its time to grow up, if such applies to you individually.

In this thread I have been accused of having something to do with 'microwaves', an unsubstantiated charge, I read the microwave thread and saw no entry by myself. 

There is no salvaging those whom cannot cover their own hind side, it is not our purpose or responsibility to do such. Heartless, no, there was a donation sent by my partner, food off of our table, this was done without my input. Empathy, yes, I lived in a Ford van for 95 days just a couple of years back. Water was supplied by public sources and stored in 1 gallon plastic containers; sewage, you do not want to know. Electricity, 12 volt as the battery would supply. Cooking, can you say tar-tar? Accommodations, a 4 inch mattress on the van floor. Assistance requested - none. Assistance issued - none.

We have grown to be a soft society, its time to prepare for hard times, the economy is failing. This situation displays a lot of what is going to happen soon, there will be no one to help anybody bail out of trouble.

The Star/Stella thing, (in my opinion), a spill over from a private/ inside joke that went (improperly) public. Deception - not intentional, but not stopped soon enough.

The long running background of this currant problem should have been handled much earlier, it is not beneficial to sit on a problem and hope for a solution, most often you have to grab the bull by its horns (or otherwise) and handle the situation by yourself.

The lesson of timely action seems to be the related item here. All that read this need to keep it in mind for the future.


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## Country Lady (Oct 2, 2003)

Terri said:


> Folks, a bit earlier I posted about how intelligent some of my relatives were. Do you know those big computers that the hospital chains use? My cousin fixes those when they go down.
> 
> Not the HOSPITAL computers, those are too small to justify his company. The hospital CHAIN computers!
> 
> ...


The Unibomber was an intelligent man. Once he was caught, did he get another chance to do it again? NO!!!


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Country Lady said:


> The Unibomber was an intelligent man. Once he was caught, did he get another chance to do it again? NO!!!


Neither will Kenneth: he has been banned. It was bound to happen.


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## moopups (May 12, 2002)

For those whom have not seen it; Kenneth in NC has been removed from posting here, this dead horse now needs to be buried.


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## Arkie1 (Jun 19, 2006)

OMG!!  



Ruby said:


> Sorry forgot to add the link to the post I was referring to in the above post.
> 
> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=134150


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

jnap31 said:


> Actually It was also Angie? or was it melissa? that when people questioned his activity on another board said they called him and had a nice talk and he seemed to be on the up and up.


It wasn't me.


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## Rick (May 10, 2002)

clovis said:


> I think a few folks on this board may be a little harsh at this point, and may be jumping to conclusions.
> I too have had a raised eyebrow about their situation, but have still kept them in my prayers.
> *I am curious though, when I offered this past week to, in essence, make a payment to Greentree on the MH, Kenneth politely refused my offer. He stated that my money would be wasted, since they had decided to let the MH get repossessed. You should also know that he basically declined any type of monetary gift, but was thankful, nonetheless.
> *
> ...


Thank you for sharing this, Clovis.

I also wanted to help catch up the arrears. I just had a nagging feeling that Kenneth was not trying hard enough to cut his costs, and earn some money (legitimate money- not pie in the sky invention money). 

I kept remembering the comment about how bad his wifes hours were at the temp agency job- some days 630am to 230pm, some days 330a to 230p. Gainful employment should not be taken for granted.

This was before the deception about the cookware was exposed. I don't condemn the man for that, but it is very disappointing.

Rick


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## Janis Sauncy (Apr 11, 2006)

Wow! As the saying goes, "what a difference a day makes...."

I checked in here yesterday morning before heading into town and wasn't able to get back on until this morning......

It took me awhile to go backwards and catch up, but I did (and Ken S., for the record, I, too, use my real name). And, since I have no "partner," husband or otherwise, what you see is what you get.

My only input, because this is a dead horse, is I have known a lot of people on disability who are "unable" to work but can collect their money, go hunting, ride horses, water and snow ski while I go to work every day, bust my butt (I'm a 52-year-old woman) working in a sawmill and still not bring home as much $$$ as those who "can't" work.

I lost my farm (of almost 30 years) two years ago to foreclosure, lived in a camping trailer for a year with my three kids, dogs and cats, picked myself up, scraped together a small down payment for an "as is" mobile home on 5 acres, and relocated 100 miles from everything and everyone I had known.

And, I never asked anyone for free help. There were a few people who helped me but I always paid them rent or, in the case of where I had to keep my goats for a year, paid all their (the goats) support and then some.

Anyway, I'm not going to say I was suspicious about Kenneth's intentions because I don't think that was the case. It did bother me that every suggestion was met, more or less, with a negative response as to why it couldn't/wouldn't work. And, like I said, I am always suspect of someone who can't find SOME kind of work. It even seemed to me, that if Kenneth could spend so much time on the computer, he could find some kind of work sitting at a desk or something......

Anyway, my only input in this thread had been the suggestion to check local laws regarding moving older mobile homes, so I'm not out anything.


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## RandB (Aug 13, 2002)

What a long strange trip this has been !!

I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt as far as the money soliciting thing, I never saw a thread where he actually asked for money, after all. I think from everything I have read here, Kenneth is a very sick man in a very bad situation, he is overwhelmed. I truly hope he and wife and daughter get their lives back on track, in some way or other.

That said, the thing I really can't understand is the wierdness of the Kenneth/Star posts. I suspected awhile ago from matching their profiles that they must be husband/wife. Those posts intentionally tried to make it seem they didn't know each other, things like he asking her "what part of NC are you in.."and she saying he shipped things to her. She never really explained that in her post. It seems other couples who post here are upfront about it, or at least don't go out of their way to deceive. Very Odd !!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

BearCreekFarm said:


> ooohhhh man, Jackpine Savage isn't going to like that at all!
> 
> edited to add:
> sorry BooBoo, don't take that personally.


LOL you goofballs.
Actually Mrs only posts rarely under my name,and identifies herself as Mrs BooBoo,Like Mrs Oz does,or Mr Dot.

But on the subject discussed of are we real with 'phoney' names,the BooBoo you see here is pretty much the real BooBoo,I dont make things up about my life or kids or grandkids,or what we do for a living.Or what we believe in.You can take that to the bank,you can bet on it,its real.

So I may not use my real name because ive seen some real whackjobs online,doesnt mean Im not 'real'

And this has sure been interesting,this thread.

Hasnt destroyed my faith in people,I have no regrets from me,personally, but I do have regrets that I 'may' have steered others wrong,that I regret.But I did so with a pure heart,IF I/we got burned,then so be it.It happens.

I Just dont really know what is what on the whole situation anymore.That said,at that point I will just stop any further contribution to the situation.

I still wish them well,I still said a prayer for them,and I still hope it all works out for them.Just it wont be from me anymore because my trust has been shaken,unfortunately ,but true nonetheless.

My biggest emotion on all this is just this,DISAPPOINTMENT.

BooBoo


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

While some members and I were checking out how to best help Kenneth, inconsistencies and questions kept arising. After two or three days, and inconsistent informtion and Kenneth's indecision things weren't working. Then the offer of the donation of the mobile home and good people wanting to get it in for him, etc. Just after that, Kenneth made a decision at 11pm at night and decided on what the "cabin" needed to be code livable. 

About that time frame I posted in Mod forum about the questioning and inconsistencies and the Star/Stella connection. One of the members that had been working hard to figure out how to help them came across it after she'd found a few other things that did not add up.

The thread looked as if it was gong to die and nothing would need to be actively done at this time.

About 11 am yesterday I received a Pm from Kenneth on what to do next since the thread had died. At that time I went back to the mod board and it was suggested that Kenneth be asked out right if Star and Stella were the same and his wife. Ken S offered to take the heat for me, and asked the question.

All of you have seen the results of that question. That was the intent of the question, so all members would enter into any kindnesses with eyes wide open. The question would give Kenneth the opportunity to make a reasonable explanation and if so, the help party could move on. As you have seen, it has not worked that way.

Due to all that has transpired, Kenneth in NC and Star in N.C. and I think new member Stella in NC have been banned.

I do think all this is a matter of intergrity and ethics - which seem to be lacking.

I was the mod that stood up for them when Fruggel Squirrel called him a scam and banned him. With the information I had then, what I said about him being a good member her was true.

But when I had serious doubts and what hurt it could do to the members, I did what I considered the ethical thing and took it to the mod board, and then we brought it to you in a manner that would allow for an explanation or what did happen.

And to those of you who have extended kindness to Kenneth can feel good about what you've done because of the spirit in which your gifts were given. Our decision to end this discussion here is simply for the purpose of maintaining the integrity of your generosity as best we can.

Now this issue is done, except for the final curtain which is probably soon.
I don't know if Cabin Fever will lock this thread immediately or let some other comments happen.

Angie


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

*Originally Posted by clovis
I think a few folks on this board may be a little harsh at this point, and may be jumping to conclusions.
I too have had a raised eyebrow about their situation, but have still kept them in my prayers.
I am curious though, when I offered this past week to, in essence, make a payment to Greentree on the MH, Kenneth politely refused my offer. He stated that my money would be wasted, since they had decided to let the MH get repossessed. You should also know that he basically declined any type of monetary gift, but was thankful, nonetheless.

If he were really a scam artist, why wouldn't he take my money????

If there is any question about this, have one of the mods open up my PM box and read for themselves!
clove * 

I also offered to send some money out of savings to help him keep the MH and he turned me down. So, like Clovis, I can't help but wonder why he turned me down if he's such a con man. 

Let me see, how does that line in the Bible go? Something along the lines of 'judge not lest you be judged?'. There's some missing pieces here, folks.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> And to those of you who have extended kindness to Kenneth can feel good about what you've done because of the spirit in which your gifts were given. Our decision to end this discussion here is simply for the purpose of maintaining the integrity of your generosity as best we can.


I agree, I came to all the revelations and issues late as I had not been following this thread. I am the one who said I was going to send something, and I certainly didn't urge anyone else, except one critical member to do the same.

I STILL DO NOT REGRET sending that money. If I forever refuse to give aid to someone because of past experience, then who has really won? 

I chose to err on the side of generosity, but also use it as a lesson... but only a lesson on Kenneth and his situation.

I hope all involved will remain generous. I hope all who have the urge to say "I told you so" will be gracious, and I hope that this in no way diminishes our online community, but strengthens it.


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## oz in SC (May 13, 2002)

This is all so bizarre....

I pray people won't let such events influence their willingness to help others.

A bright spot in all this is to look back and see the GOODNESS in so many people willign to help out in their own way.

THAT helps to restore hope in our basic goodness in my opinion.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> W....Now this issue is done, except for the final curtain which is probably soon.
> I don't know if Cabin Fever will lock this thread immediately or let some other comments happen.....Angie


I'll give people a few more hours to air out their grievances and lock the thread after the football game. After that time, I would appreciate that no new threads will be started regarding this issue on the Homesteading Questions forum.


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## Fla Gal (Jul 14, 2003)

ZealYouthGuy said:


> I STILL DO NOT REGRET sending that money. If I forever refuse to give aid to someone because of past experience, then who has really won?
> 
> I chose to err on the side of generosity, but also use it as a lesson... but only a lesson on Kenneth and his situation.


Well said ZYG. Ditto, I don't regret sending money either. This incident isn't going to stop me from wanting, in the future, to give aid to someone.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> I'll give people a few more hours to air out their grievances and lock the thread after the football game. After that time, I would appreciate that no new threads will be started regarding this issue on the Homesteading Questions forum.


Could you let it go for the rest of the day,there are a lot of good posts here and its been very civil.I'd like to see more of peoples thoughts and i appreciate your keeping it going as long as you have.
I see lots of good people here,and they may have something they would like to say.

If not,no problem,I know its been a thorn in your side and respect that.

Thanks CF,

BooBoo


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

ZealYouthGuy said:


> I agree, I came to all the revelations and issues late as I had not been following this thread. I am the one who said I was going to send something, and I certainly didn't urge anyone else, except one critical member to do the same.
> 
> I STILL DO NOT REGRET sending that money. If I forever refuse to give aid to someone because of past experience, then who has really won?
> 
> ...


Yep,well said.I agree too.
My faith is still intact.

BooBoo


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## Reauxman (Sep 14, 2002)

Al I'll say is I still feel sorry for people who have outcasted themselves so much from society that they feel the need to not only scam people here, but to talk to each other on a public forum and make as if they have never heard of each other.


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## michelleIL (Aug 29, 2004)

WOW!!!!
I can't believe this, it's insane! I wasn't much of a member here, but I thought he was sincere! I am appalled and shocked!
WOW!!!

I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I guess you just don't do that these days! Sorry Quispea about our little row. I hope you'll forgive me. I have certainly learned quite a bit, as i think we all have. We have brainstormed up ways in which we could cope of the S were to really HTF!!!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

As a rule, I will always help out someone in a bind because I'd had some tough times in my life and I don't think that anyone should ever become so jaded that they refuse to help others. Having said that, I would also point out that I tend to be situation specific and will generally not just hand over cash. If someone tells me they're hungry, I'll buy them a sandwich, if someone is in need of financial help, I will find them a job or hire them to do some odd jobs for me for a few hours. I find that handing over cash tends to make situations like this. It works the first couple times and then seems to create more situations instead of people looking for real solutions to their situations. I see many people each day here that I would like to help but they are either too far away for my brand of help or they aren't actively seeking help but solutions and suggestions. I don't think anyone that helped out should feel bad because they helped out with a pure heart and they helped out based on the information they had. With current information, they have every right to be unhappy about being misled but I sure hope that doesn't change them. Each and every one of you that did help out are wonderful people, go to bed tonight knowing that. You didn't do anything wrong and your creator will know that you did something kind and generous. The same creator will judge someone who was not honest with you so you don't have to waste your time standing in judgement. You remain heroes to me.


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## Gaia (Sep 15, 2004)

Before this thread gets closed, or even after (if its not deleted), I would hope that some of the valuable information in it and the original could be condensed and saved. Many people find themselves in desperate situations and need financial help or type of income. In the time of these two posts, many ideas for everything from work at home jobs, temporary income gain, financial institutions, numbers & contacts for government and local agencies, etc have been accumulated here. I would hate to see this information go to waste that might benefit another in need and searching for help or answers.

I would be willing to try to create such a post if it is thought to be a worthy cause by the community. Unfortunately I can't say if I could do it in a day or several weeks due to RL. I just really would like to make sure that information is available to any that might come along and need it. I know a few years ago, I was one of those that would have cherished anything that might help my DH and I out.


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## Tater'sPa (Jun 27, 2002)

It doesn't happen often but,

................I'm speechless


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

Never was even tempted to help this guy, though I have helped people less fortunate before - and will again.
Something just didn't seem "right" about him and his claims.
That being said, I don't think anyone here should "feel bad" because they were kindhearted and generous enough, to care about other people.
The fact that he put the same exact post, on another forum, was a HUGE red flag to me, for if he was truly just looking for "ideas" he would have gotten and did get PLENTY here....people don't do that kind of thing unless they're really hoping for $$$$, instead of "ideas."


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## Ruby (May 10, 2002)

Maybe someone could make a "sticky" and just add the links that have been posted on these two thread. I know I was also in a situation similar to theirs back in 02 and 03. I would have been glad to have some of those resources.


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## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

michelleIL said:


> WOW!!!!
> I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I guess you just don't do that these days! Sorry Quispea about our little row. I hope you'll forgive me. I have certainly learned quite a bit, as i think we all have. We have brainstormed up ways in which we could cope of the S were to really HTF!!!


MichelleIL,
I wholeheartedly forgive you ..and your sincerity is very much appreciated. 

If I seem a bit distressed lately ..its because I'm going through a very disturbing situation in my personal life. There is at least one member of HT who has been involved in some 'behind-the-scenes' activity against me. For that reason ..I may have to quit HT. 
In light of this ..I surely hope you can take it to heart when I said that your sincerity is very much appreciated. It most truly is! Thank you!

I've learned a lot from Ken's recent discussions ..and am still learning. I hope everyone can feel good about supporting Ken. I also hope that those who didn't support Ken will remain supportive of everyone who did.
From the beginning of Ken's discussions ..Angie and MBB have provided me a high level of support ..they have encouraged me ..and they have helped me maintain a sense of balance. Throughout these discussions ..even when Ken yelled at me for questioning his ability to handle money in a responsibile manner ..I still supported him. 

The most importatnt thing I'll take with me is that I made my peace with Ken via a PM ..and Ken also with me. The last words I personally received from Ken were kind words ..thoughtful words ..peaceable words. That is how I wish to remember Ken ..and for those reasons ..I will not dogpile on him here. 

If my safety and welfare dictate that I need to move on and leave HT ..then so be it. Should that happen ..I will be moving on a little bit wiser ..but also a little bit sadder.

You take care michelleIL..


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## Highground (Jan 22, 2003)

Unbelievable. :shrug: 



After reading this thread til my head hurts I can only come to one conclusion.

Ken................Star

It's all Clinton's fault.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

Qwispea said:


> MichelleIL,
> I wholeheartedly forgive you ..and your sincerity is very much appreciated.
> 
> *If I seem a bit distressed lately ..its because I'm going through a very disturbing situation in my personal life. There is at least one member of HT who has been involved in some 'behind-the-scenes' activity against me. For that reason ..I may have to quit HT. * In light of this ..I surely hope you can take it to heart when I said that your sincerity is very much appreciated. It most truly is! Thank you!
> ...


What in the world? Hey QP...I'm all for ya staying around...If anyone is threatening you, you need to hash it out with mods or admins...

No One should have to leave HT because someone is threatening or back-stabbing...

I hate that kind of activity and I'm sure the mods and admins do too. 

Funny thing happened last night to me as well...seems there were some PM rumors that QBVII was my "Partner" (Wife). LOL...anyone with a good memory of the spring thread about "Communal-Living Naysayers, UNITE", will remember that QB HATED me back then...

I tried to read the thread last night but it got so bad that CF had to delete most of the posts due to our ongoing verbal combat...

We've since become friends, and PM each other sometimes...I thought it was pretty funny that rumors were flying that we were married...

I'm sure she'll be mortified when she reads this....LOL

Anyway, my point is, this is your place as much as it is anyone elses and I've never seen you do anything except post your thoughts...don't let rumors and innuendo run you off...


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

For those who would still like to offer physical help they need the porch and a rear deck taken off of the mobile home before they come to tow it off (assuming that is to be the case). Kenneth would be physically unable to do such activity and wife and daughter, from what I understand, would be limited physically as well.

According to Kenneth GT told them if they made a payment before the 20th they would have an additional ten days or so to make a second then about three weeks to make the third to catch up, with two additional payments tacked on the end of the loan. If a payment isn't made by the 20th GT could take action fairly quickly afterwards.

If you want to offer to help on the porch and deck you can contact them at [email protected]. Likely you would need to bring all of the tools required. I don't know if porch and deck are nailed or screwed down.

Likely they will need temporary steps into the mobile home also and appliances moved to cottage or cargo box.

They are located southeast of Kings Mountain, NC a couple of miles off I-85. Their property borders the SC line.

From what I understand from them they have no friends or family in the area who would be willing to help them on such projects.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

Highground said:


> Unbelievable. :shrug:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I thought it was all Bush's fault. :nerd:


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

> Funny thing happened last night to me as well...seems there were some PM rumors that QBVII was my "Partner" (Wife).


Not surprised. Actually I wondered how long it would be before the gossip started. I think it was the "weenie fixation" thread........

Just for the record: NO, Boleyz is not my husband. AND, I am not his wife. I am married, but my hubby doesn't post here.

Boleyz, we're just a couple of shady characters.


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## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

jnap31 said:


> I cant believe this typical you switching sides now to play.


What's that supposed to mean jnap? I think I've been one of the most consistant personalities throughout both of Ken's recent SHTF discussions! I'm not ashamed of it either! Based upon the information we were relying upon ..many many many many people contributed to and supported Ken.




jnap31 said:


> I think not. ..and my mind has been made up for some time, I think anyone supporting these two at this point would be people that I would prefer to stay away from.


Certainly ..nobody is condoning their behavior. And I don't see anyone is supporting them now. Mostly ..people are only supporting their own heartfelt reasons for contributing. Concerning all those who did support Ken ..they should not be viewed as any less intelligent than those who were suspicious. 

Yes ..I admint I was suspicious from the start ..and several members can attest to that fact through various PM corrospondence I had with them. But ..I decided to give Ken the benefit of a doubt. I firmly believe that many others did too. Were we stupid? I THINK NOT!!!! We were lead by our kind hearts ..and by our strong desire to help somebody who appeared to be in dire need.

For anyone who sat back early on and said nothing ..but are now exclaiming after the fact that they didn't give a gift solely because they were suspicious ..seems to be a bit like the proverbial "I-told-you-so". I can't help but wonder that if more of the suspicious folks would have spoken up in the beginning ..perhaps some of us may have investigated a bit more throughly. 

One person that I've been talking to admitted to me ..before all this came to light ..that he wasn't going to reveal his suspicions because Ken was too popular and he didn't want to upset the apple cart. But in my opinion ..to keep silent about your suspicions for the sole reason to maintain your own popularity seems to be very hypocritical. 
I just don't see any sense in dogpiling on Ken now. Live and learn ..and move on. Just my point of view..so please don't attack it.


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## KindredSpirit (Feb 16, 2006)

Boleyz said:


> Here's a rather old photo of Ken...in better times...


Does this mean the apology was in the eighteen minutes of tape that disappeared? 

Ya gotta be kinda old to get it!


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

> For anyone who sat back early on and said nothing ..but are now exclaiming after the fact that they didn't give a gift solely because they were suspicious ..seems to be a bit like the proverbial "I-told-you-so". I can't help but wonder that if more of the suspicious folks would have spoken up in the beginning ..perhaps some of us may have investigated a bit more throughly.


Anyone who'd breathed a word of "hey wait a minute" on the original SHTF thread would have been lynched.  

All I said was that we need to bear in mind that this is the internet and we don't know "what people do at home", meaning when Kenneth was discussing his diabetic problems, I innocently remarked that this is the internet and we are not privy to his diet at home. I was piled on for that little comment, called a troll, etc.

Don't blame anyone for not speaking up sooner; I imagine they read the thread and saw the reaction to even casual remarks.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

KindredSpirit said:


> Does this mean the apology was in the eighteen minutes of tape that disappeared?
> 
> Ya gotta be kinda old to get it!


 I'm not old!!

The tape didn't disappear, as I recall. It had a lot of "accidently" erased spots in it.


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## Boleyz (Sep 7, 2004)

QBVII said:


> Boleyz, we're just a couple of shady characters.


Seems like if 2 people agree on something, it must be a "Conspiracy"! 

We have been enjoying the thread on the out-takes from the "Splitting Land" thread...

I didn't know that free-wheeling internet discussion and fun meant you must be "Married"...I like several on here and consider them good cyber-friends, but I've never met anyone on here personally...

It's amazing to me how I single-handedly, with public posts, debates and discussion, incur the wrath of so many people...

BTW, the next time I'm the first one cursed on a thread, I am absolutely going to whine to a moderator until something is done...You'd better quit cursing me first...Curse someone else, then curse me...OR...

*Ya Won't Have Boleyz to Kick Around Anymore!!*


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## KindredSpirit (Feb 16, 2006)

ladycat said:


> I'm not old!!
> 
> The tape didn't disappear, as I recall. It had a lot of "accidently" erased spots in it.


Yes, sorry, my wording wasn't quite correct. I was referring to 18 minutes of the tape disappeared (erased). I guess if I am going to make a joke, I had better have more coffee!


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## BearCreekFarm (Jun 24, 2005)

Qwispea-

I disagree with your pov on revealing suspicions early on. I have been on this board since before Y2K, and I very clearly remember some of Kenneth's other attempts to raise money. I have been suspicious of him for a long time, since (from his posts) he never seems to be willing or able to do anything to improve his situation from one year to the next, yet, he frequently posts about new rifles, gold panning equipment, metal detectors, and other toys he and his wife have purchased. They always seemed to have cash for those sorts of things, but none to pay the bills. And I have to confess, I never had ANY inkling that Star was his wife, that was a complete surprise to me. But, nonetheless, I doubted him. Did anyone ever notice that the $25k amount he sought so often was just around the same amount that he had mentioned needing in one of his many posts about moving to another location? That is the amount he needed for his "get out of town" money.

But, would I have mentioned my suspicions on the SHTF thread? Not a chance! I would have been tarred and feathered and run off the forum by those who supported Ken and spoke up for his fine character and said what a great friend he is of theirs. People believe what they want to believe, and they aren't necessarily interested in the truth, especially if it conflicts with what they already believe. We have seen evidence of that time and again on this forum. And no, I am not omnipotent, I speak from direct experience gained right here on the forum. Early on, when this was the Countryside forum and we had a much smaller, much more closely-knit group, I contributed cash on three different occassions to three different members. Not once did I ever recieve an acknowledgement or a thank you from the recipients, and further posting from them afterwards made me realize that donating to people is not the way to help them. I have learned that (in general, barring any catastrophic events), when fully grown adult people who have the means to own a computer, have internet access, and participate on a forum on a regular basis find themselves in financial trouble, it is often because they lack the wherewithal to manage their finances responsibly, and I decided there wasn't any point in throwing money down a black hole because those people will continue to lurch from one crisis to the next, finding people along the way to prop them up and get them through to the next crisis. The next time someone wants help from me, they better have already sold their computer, cancelled their internet service, cable/satellite tv, quit drinking and smoking, if applicable, and have been eating beans and rice for a good long while before asking for help. And, making an honest effort to help themselves first would go a long way in my book. I have had my own share of disasters in life and managed to get through them without asking anyone for help, and I am just one small woman, alone in the world until I met Jackpine Savage two years ago- but until then, I did everything myself and took care of a number of other people at the same time. So, forgive me if I am less charitable than I once was, and a little more cynical, but experience has taught me that those who are truly in need are often the last ones to ask for help, and those asking the loudest, and most often, are often the ones who are least willing to do anything to help themselves. I have chosen not to enable those kinds of people to take advantage of me again. It doesn't help me, and i really do not believe that it helps them.

If Kenneth had responded to a single one of my suggestions, or my offer to loan him a phone recorder I might have been less skeptical, but the fact is, I don't believe there is a GT rep hassling him- if a mortgage company rep called and threatened/harassed me like that I would jump at the chance to catch it on tape and sue the heck out of the company, but Kenneth wasn't interested at all. Besides which, early on, Kenneth posted that he had finally gotten to speak with a manager who agreed that they were not in default- so I am confused now as to why GT is allegedly going ahead with the foreclosure. I don't care who your lender is, they are not going to foreclose because you are 8 days late with a payment for the first time in the history of your loan- that just doesn't happen. For one thing, by law, you always have a 15 day grace period. But, I am done trying to point out Kenneth's inconsistencies, there were plenty of them and anyone who is interested can go back and look at his old posts.

But, I will say, that had I mentioned my suspicions at the beginning of the SHTF thread, I am quite certain that I would have been banned from the forum, so don't be too quick to judge others who had similar doubts- people were jumping all over themselves in support of Kenneth and his family. No way would I go up against them.


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

Bearcreekfarm,
Best post on this thread. 
I agree completely with everything you said.

Kinda gets under my skin a little though to know there's somebody out there PM'ing saying that I'm married to Boleyz.
(No offense to the attic-dweller, though!)  

I've *NEVER pretended to be anyone or anything on this board but who I am* and I can tell you that Boleyz is NOT my husband.

So whoever is saying that we're married: knock it OFF!


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

BearCreekFarm said:


> But, I will say, that had I mentioned my suspicions at the beginning of the SHTF thread, I am quite certain that I would have been banned from the forum,


Nah--you're being a little unfair to the Mods there. They're not *that* crazed.


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## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

QBVII said:


> Anyone who'd breathed a word of "hey wait a minute" on the original SHTF thread would have been lynched.
> 
> All I said was that we need to bear in mind that this is the internet and we don't know "what people do at home", meaning when Kenneth was discussing his diabetic problems, I innocently remarked that this is the internet and we are not privy to his diet at home. I was piled on for that little comment, called a troll, etc.
> 
> Don't blame anyone for not speaking up sooner; I imagine they read the thread and saw the reaction to even casual remarks.


You're not suggesting that people who were afraid to speak up are 'sheeple' ..are you?


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

KindredSpirit said:


> Yes, sorry, my wording wasn't quite correct. I was referring to 18 minutes of the tape disappeared (erased). I guess if I am going to make a joke, I had better have more coffee!


 I posted tongue-in-cheek


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## BearCreekFarm (Jun 24, 2005)

I don't think so, Bink. Look at all the heat that poor QBVII took just for making a very general suggestion about being cautious with people you have only "met" through the internet. She was attacked by a number of people, and should not have been- she wasn't even attacking Kenneth directly, just urging caution, and people went nuts. Even if Kenneth had been on the level, one poster ought to be able to offer a dissenting opinion without incurring the wrath of those who disagree, but that is not what happened here.


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## KindredSpirit (Feb 16, 2006)

ladycat said:


> I posted tongue-in-cheek


LOL See, still not alert enough to get that!! Our DD had her 18th birthday party last night. It ended at almost three in the morning. I am WAY too old to be up that late without massive amounts of coffee in the morning.......and possibly throughout the day!!


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2006)

BearCreekFarm said:


> I don't think so, Bink. Look at all the heat that poor QBVII took just for making a very general suggestion about being cautious with people you have only "met" through the internet. She was attacked by a number of people, and should not have been- she wasn't even attacking Kenneth directly, just urging caution, and people went nuts. Even if Kenneth had been on the level, one poster ought to be able to offer a dissenting opinion without incurring the wrath of those who disagree, but that is not what happened here.


 Agreed.


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## Peacock (Apr 12, 2006)

I felt kinda bad about not contributing...

But it always bugs me when people post about needing help and then come up with umptyzillion excuses why this, that, and the other thing won't work. 

There have been a couple people like that on another group I frequent (not related in the slightest). I've sent them bits here and there, but always got the feeling my money was going into a giant, sucking black hole and did nary a bit of good. These people weren't scammers, just the type who couldn't/wouldn't do what it took to get back on their feet. People would write post after well-thought-out post offering solutions and great advice, but oh no, that wouldn't work for whatever reason.

There have been times I have asked for help with a problem (never financial), been given good advice, and felt even worse after if I couldn't actually use the suggestions. If you're not prepared to actually take the advice you solicit, don't ask!

I don't help people because I want recognition or even thanks -- but I sure do want to make sure it actually helps someone get back up on their feet instead of just extending their time before falling down again.


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## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

BearCreekFarm 
..I don't think I've said anything to contradict your basic opinions about Ken or Ken's behavior. If you see something I said that seemingly contradicts your opinion about Ken and his behavior ..I didn't mean it that way.

My 'stand' is that at least one person specifically told me he wouldn't defend me earlier on in the thread ..because doing so would go against popular opinion. But then ..while that person deliberately refrained from speaking out about Ken before-the-fact ..that same person didn't hesitate to condemn Ken after-the-fact. I believe that it can be a form of hypocrisy if a person only cares to say the popular things. As I've already suggested to QBVII ..If a person only cares to 'go-with-the-flow' of popular opinion ..then isn't that the definition of a "sheeple"?

Anyway ..Not arguing with you BCF ..just offering my opinion! I guess that since I am the type of person who isn't afraid to speak his mind irregardless of whether it'll go against popular opinion ..then perhaps I unfairly expect others to have the same type of integrity. I think your post was very well phrased ..and it certainly gives me substance to 'ponder' upon.


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

> I believe that it can be a form of hypocrisy if a person only cares to say the popular things. As I've already suggested to QBVII ..If a person only cares to 'go-with-the-flow' of popular opinion ..then isn't that the definition of a "sheeple"?


There's no hypocrisy; there is someone who apparently knew it wouldn't do any good.

Hypocrisy would mean they were pretending to go along with the crowd. Staying off the thread doesn't imply that.

They were silent in the face of overwheming opposition - that is not hypocrisy.

Besides that, why is this thread turning into a discussion about someone's "hypocrisy" for not stepping up to be slammed and piled on when the real issue here is a poster who has basically ripped-off folks and made out like a bandit? To the tune of over $500? And you're worried about someone's possible "hypocrisy?"

There's bigger issues here, I'm afraid...


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## Ken Scharabok (May 11, 2002)

QBVII & Boleyz:

1. Before you two get your Fruit of the Looms in a wad it was in no way sinister. Discussion on the Moderator Board was it appeared there were others besides Kenneth and Star who were partners posting separate. Someone used you two as a potential example based on some of your banter back and forth. Went no further than that.

2. Please PM me with the name of the one who brought it to your attention. What is said on the Mod Board is with the specific understanding that what happens there, stay there. That is why it is not public access, so those allowed access can freely speak their minds. Looks like one of the moderators needs a talking to by the board.

3. Don't make the assumption moderators follow every thread, much less every posting against it. We work more through management by exception when potential problems are brought to our attention.

4. When someone is banned or suspected it is normally a group consensus and not arbitrary or capricious. Typically there is a warning before action taken.


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## BearCreekFarm (Jun 24, 2005)

Qwispea-


My point was not that I did not speak up because I was afraid of being tarred and feathered, but rather, that it would have been pointless to do so because too many people already had their minds made up. And, knowing what the reaction would be, I just figured it wasn't worth the hassle, and who cares, anyway? I made up my own mind and was happy with my decision. At the same time, I applaud the efforts of those who did contribute out of the kindness of their hearts- they did not know it was a scam, and they cared enough about others to try to help, and that is commendable. I'm just sorry to see it turn out badly.

As for speaking out in general- that is something I have never been afraid to do, lol. I am very opinionated and that has not always endeared me to the forum at large. But, I say what I believe and I don't worry about my popularity. I still gain a lot from the forum and I hope that others can benefit from an account of my experiences.


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## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

QBVII said:


> There's no hypocrisy; there is someone who apparently knew it wouldn't do any good.
> 
> Hypocrisy would mean they were pretending to go along with the crowd. Staying off the thread doesn't imply that.
> 
> ...


Believe me ..I am in no way "worried" about someone's alleged hypocrisy. I just see where this discussion went from one extreme over to the other extreme. 
On the one hand we had a 'group' mentality where almost everybody hesitated to speak out against Ken because it would be going against popular opinion. On the other hand we now seem to have a 'group' mentality where speaking in support of Ken seems to be going against popular opinion.

Seems to me that one of the reason's I'm enjoying HT less and less ..is that people do not speak their minds often enough if it goes against popular opinion. As we've witnessed ..many people suspected Ken right from the beginning. 
I do fully understand the 'group' mentality ..and the hesitation to go against popular opinion. But if a majority of those who suspected Ken from the beginning had spoken out ..perhaps it could have saved a lot of people from making monetary contributions. Might have helped save a lot of heartache too.

But what do I know??? :shrug: As I said in a previous post ..maybe I unfairly expect others to have the same 'intestinal fortitude' as I do when it comes to going agaisnt popular opinion. 
I place no judgemental fault upon anybody here ..as I will not refrain from talking to anybody based solely upon their decisions or opinions in this matter with Ken. However ..I currently still believe that to openly condemn someone after-the-fact when one was unwilling to go against the flow before-the-fact ..suggests a 'sheeple' mentality. If I'm wrong ..well ..it certainly won't be the first time for me. Not sure about you though!


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## lgslgs (May 30, 2005)

It may be a shame that a lot of folks gave Kenneth help and then were disappointed that he might not be the sort of person they'd hoped he'd be.

And maybe he's not the person most in need of help right now on this forum, or maybe he is but he's not as good at making big or lasting changes in his life when he's given help.

I personally think that he could probably do more to help himself - but that's just my view of it. I still think that anyone who gave $$ and kept his lights on for a few more days, put some food on his family's table, or even just ended up buying him a beer to drink as he watches his trailer get towed away did the man and his family a great kindness.

It might not make them any better or smarter about how they handle their lives or how they do or do not express gratitude for help, but it made part of the world a little bit better for a while. I honestly don't believe that anyone can be the recipient of such an outpouring of kindness without it touching them deeply and having it forever stand as a moment of importance in their lives. 

The kindness expressed toward Kenneth, in money, ideas, and even just in the extention of friendship is bound to linger with him - as is the bitterness of harsh words, perceived insult, and poor choices made. He's going to go forward with a lot of things to think about. 

I do really believe that he's going to end up earning every dollar sent to him as thoughts, regrets, "what if's", and the memory of the kindness of strangers come to mind in the days, weeks, and years to come. 

I'm glad I don't have to pay a price that big for lessons learned (or not yet learned). I wouldn't choose to walk that sort of path in life. 

I do still wonder how much of the path he's chosen for himself, and how much was just stuff that happened - but mostly I just really feel sorry for anyone walking that kind of path, no matter how they ended up there. 

Lynda


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## QBVII (May 31, 2005)

I totally disagree that this thread has become anything like people not expressing support for Kenneth - there have been numerous posts, all thru this thread, about how people STILL wish him the best, will continue to pray for him. They may not be posting right at this moment, perhaps for the past hour; but you must be joking to even suggest that this thread has totally turned into what you're describing. No way, all anyone has to do is go back and read since this thing blew up.....goodness, some people even suggested that financial contributions should continue to flow in.

Also it's been posted that Kenneth still needs help with his porch and other matters.


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Ok--I spoke up for caution on the original shtf thread and it tweren't popular to say the least. Can I say "told you so" now? Nah, better get the laundry done.


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## Bink (Apr 13, 2003)

Qwispea said:


> I do fully understand the 'group' mentality ..and the hesitation to go against popular opinion. But if a majority of those who suspected Ken from the beginning had spoken out ..perhaps it could have saved a lot of people from making monetary contributions. Might have helped save a lot of heartache too.


We're all adults. We're capable of making up our own minds. The information was there for anyone who wished to delve.


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## jasper (Aug 28, 2006)

lgslgs

you really expressed my feelings in your post. i have been watching this thread every day. as i live in kenneth's area of the country, i was ready to make myself available if the cottage work was to happen.

we each live with our choices in life, many of us would change things if we could. as we can't, most of must move forward hoping to do a better job in the future. some never learn and continue on their own path whether it is good for them or not. but either way it is still a choice each time.

kenneth sold himself short i believe. perhaps he loses the mobile home - people stood ready to help him with shelter, there was an offer of another mobile home, people offered endless suggestions that surely would have improved his family's lives.

for the sake of money, he denied himself and his family the ability to a more long term solution.

if i were to guess, his day today is far worse than most might imagine and he knows he did it to himself. karma exists...............


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## Qwispea (Jul 6, 2005)

nodak3 said:


> Ok--I spoke up for caution on the original shtf thread and it tweren't popular to say the least. Can I say "told you so" now? Nah, better get the laundry done.



Yes nodak ...YOU can. You spoke up almost right from the beginning. 

BTW: I'm doing laundry too. Am I the only man hee that does laundry?


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## Dave (May 10, 2002)

Kenneth in NC said:


> Angie that would be a good solution if someone was able to pay cash. Although some on here have scared DW with the land prices they have posted being the norm in their area.
> 
> Just FYI I took meds, phone and internet will stay on as long as we can keep it.
> 
> Kenneth



Why would they need to pay cash? There are many lenders that'd do a loan on the land. You'd get paid regardless.

I'm curious why with that land and especially the climate there, you aren't growing your own food? I understand your medical problems but you have a 12 year old daughter that could tend quite a bit around there, including chickens and rabbits, especially being homeschooled and at home all the time. If you did that, you would have virtually no food expense at all and maybe even bring in a bit of income.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Looks like we had long enough to hash this issue over....and over....and over...and over again. I'm considering deleting this entire thread as well as the other Ken/SHTF thread in a few days. Perhaps I'll move them to GC. Please PM me if you believe that there is any positive, constructive reason to leave these two threads at the Homesteading Questions forum.


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