# fourth grader failing in school..what to do?



## MTTMATSUA (May 23, 2007)

hey all;

My BFF  (really, since we were 12 and starting highschool..stuck the young ones together...) has a son in 4th grade. smart kid, loves art. Her oldest is 18, girl and not home much. DH is nice enough (they've been married for 20 years or so...) but school is not exactly a priority for him.

Yesterday I got a call, she (mom) was in tears because son is failing 4th grade. As in every subject has a 'F'. She was deep in the 'what did I do wrong? What can I do now?' dance.

We have a very different take on parenting. My kids still have curfews (more for respectfullness than true curfews) no cable or computers in their rooms. Just got TVs when they could buy them themselves (and to watch those Disney DVD's that I am a wee bit burned out on...) I gave her my take on it (no tv, bedtimes very strict, weekly conference w/ teacher etc...)

But, does anyone have any other tips?? I really love this kid...he's a sweetie. but I think dad is the 'boys will be boys' person, mom is angry and teacher is ready to hold him back (he started late anyhow because of how his b-day falls...) Plus the whole house works fulltime so he is in after school care til 5 PM.

I have googled and searched and such, but most things on the web lean towards how to help w/ teens and this, not younger kids....

Thanks a TON!! in advance!!!
 Bonnie


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

We don't have nearly enough info. There are so many possibilities here that the mind boggles.

There's no way for you (or us) to really know what is going on. I think the parents need to deal with it.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

The info IS a bit sparse, but I can give a starting point.

Somebody needs to sit down and help this child where he is getting stuck. If he does not get it, it needs to be explained to him. If a paent WERE helping every night with the homework (NOT doing it for him!) the parents would already KNOW what the problem is. Usually, anyways.

Because, while kids SHOULD pay attention in class, it is sometimes hard for the little ones. And, if you miss part of the lectures, then the later lectures that build on the missed lectures might not make any sense.


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

Here's what my parents did. Every class I got below a C, I had to bring my books home every night. Every night until my grades got above a C, my mom had me doing my lessons at the kitchen table. Anything I didn't understand she went over until I did. She drilled me, over & over. It did not matter if I had homework in that class or not, we did 1 hour every night in every failing class. I kicked, I squawked, I argued, I did it. No TV, totally grounded. But then Mom was, too, as she did it with me every night. Only took one semester, after that I made the honor roll.


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## Peacock (Apr 12, 2006)

How did he do in school last year? Is this a new phenomenon, or is it merely a trend?

Could be the school stinks. Could be he's distracted by unlimited video games or TV. Could be a learning disorder that just now made itself obvious. Could be a sudden health problem, poor eyesight, or a bad ear infection that makes him hard of hearing. Could just be a lack of motivation.

My own son is in 4th grade, and having done this twice, I can tell you that 4th grade is a big milestone. If there were any problems with a child's education thus far, things they might've gotten away with in the past, this is the year they rear their ugly heads. In our experience the homework nearly doubles, teachers are way more strict about neatness, following directions and turning things in on time. Some kids experience "switch classes" for the first time. 

My son's year got off to a shaky start, but he's pulling it back up now and doing quite well. I think he just needed a few lectures and some real disciplinary acts to convince him to take school seriously, and to take pride in his accomplishments.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

F in every grade is pretty bad. It's really not believable. I mean, even if he was having trouble paying attention or wasn't getting his homework done, he still wouldn't be getting an F in every class. Your friend needs to make an appointment with his teacher. There could be social problems at school. He could also have vision or hearing problems.


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## MTTMATSUA (May 23, 2007)

Rose said:


> We don't have nearly enough info. There are so many possibilities here that the mind boggles.
> 
> There's no way for you (or us) to really know what is going on. I think the parents need to deal with it.


Sorry...here's more info...

Biggest part is not turning in assignments, not finishing tests and quizzes, poor performance w/ writing assignments (no cap's no puntuation), not participating in class. Hates cursive writing....

He's not acting out in any way in class. According to his mom, he understands the work, just chooses not to do it or participate. This is the first year for letter grades (earlier grades were pass/fail)

She did get a bulletin board for him to put his work on at home so she can see it when she gets home from work. Distractions have now been eliminated (TV, games etc) The afterschool program he is in has been notified so they are going to keep a closer eye on him to make sure he's not tossing papers that need to be turned into class.

I think I was just trying to brainstorm anything so I could help her out...you know how it is when its someone you've known for 30 something years...my heart just hurts for her and him. I did find some spots on the web and found some books I had packed up to mail to her. 

I think he may not realize that he really REALLY needs to step it up...I hope he figures it out soon!!!

 Bonnie


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Sounds like they are getting a handle on it. He seems to be angry (not doing things he already knows, like punctuation). Why he's being rebellious could range from hormones to being separated from a friend. On the plus side, TV and games have been eliminated.


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## comfortablynumb (Nov 18, 2003)

when I did that in 3rd grade, i got to go back to 3rd grade again.

it worked.


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

Better to repeat 4th grade than get dragged through and do even worse in 5th- but the year's really just started so await events.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Teachers meeting.
find out what seems to be the problem
tutoring.

Good luck
Angie


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## Mid Tn Mama (May 11, 2002)

The first place to start is to find out what his reading level is. Children who are behind their grade in reading really have a mountain to climb. This is because textbooks are written at an even higher level than fourth grade. The math books now have word problems they cannot read. They cannot read the directions.

By fourth grade you can see the children who phonics doesn't work on. While phonics may be retaught, these children may have to learn to rely on sight reading frequently used words. It helps to have them read books they are motivated to learn from.

Meet with the teacher. These F's mean he is not doing anything IN class and nothing out of class. Is the parent aware of what the homework is? Most teachers would not fail a learning disabled child who is trying.

If it were my child, I'd have them bring home the textbooks and review at night what was covered during the day.

Next, spend at least 30 minutes a day with him reading. Read at his level so he doesn't get frustrated. Find interesting books. Keep reading materials (magazines, books, comic books even) in the car for him to use when going here and there.

The parent should meet with the teacher as soon as possible. Perhaps the parent knows some things that will help the teacher correct the problem sooner.

A child who goes to an after-school program really should be getting their homework done there. If the teacher doesn't have a good system for assignments and homework going to and from home, then the parent should get a binder or notebook, label things and keep papers to go home separate from papers that are needed for homework that need to be returned.

Fun programs for reading and math:

Mathblaster
Reader Rabbit
www.starfall.com


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Part of this sounds like the parent's fault. I understand they both work full time, but do they not check on what homework he needs to do or check over homework he has done? But with that being said, for a child to be failing EVERY class, something seems wrong. I mean, a kid may not like math, and won't do very well in it, but might excel at spelling or english.

Kind of sounds like the parents need to have a meeting with the teacher and both the parents and the teacher put the fear of spending ANOTHER year in 4th grade again in him!!!

He should be bringing home a note with what homework needs done and what is coming due. The parents and I'm talking BOTH mom & DAD need to be looking over his homework, encouraging him, and having him correct what needs correcting - HIM, not the parents doing the work.

Once grades start going up, slowly reintroduce tv and such, but if grades goes back down, he loses those "fun things" until grades are back up.


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## Dente deLion (Nov 27, 2006)

Maura said:


> Sounds like they are getting a handle on it. He seems to be angry (not doing things he already knows, like punctuation). Why he's being rebellious could range from hormones to being separated from a friend. On the plus side, TV and games have been eliminated.


This is what I was thinking. Given that the situation seems so sudden and pervasive I'm guessing there is a larger underlying issue - and I do think he's angry about something.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

OH!

My kids are the king and queen of disorganization! This is what we have done that worked:

The parent should check every bit of homework before it is turned in. That means if he has not capitalized, or whatever, it can be seen early and the problem fixed. 

The back-to-school things should be placed in front of the front door so they CANNOT be forgotten, and the parent will see if it has accidently-on-purpose been left behind.

Does the child have a separate folder to put the homework in, so it is not mixed in with the others? Perhaps the teacher can check it before the child leaves for the day.

As for the grades, yes. My son got the bright ide that he would NEVER get anything marked wrong if it was not turned in. That took a LOT of time, patience, and love. Lots of talking and reassurance, also! That kid was WORRYING!


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## Lilandra (Oct 21, 2004)

sorry to hear about the problems they are having (hugs)

have the lil dear screened for depression. my son suffered a bout of of depression last year and he had all the same issues your friends son is having - not turning in assignments, not finishing quizzes and in class work but was a wonderful kid to hang out with, sweet, polite.... just didn't have the follow thru at school.
4th grade is a milestone class much like 9th grade ... there are so many changes for the kids at these ages between social expetataions and phyical growth.

best wishes


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

What about him having at least one parent that is home to parent him? Keeping him at school so much is very hard on a kid, they need their family. Of course I'm a big fan of home schooling - if his parents weren't aware he was having so much trouble, they probably aren't aware of what he is being taught either. There is so much political propaganda at school it is ridiculous. I hope your friend will be able to find a way to cut back on work and spend more time with her son. I'm sure she'd be able to have a better handle on who he is, what's going on in his heart and his life, what he's being taught, if he is able to learn it and do his work, etc. 

Children just need their parents!


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

Here's the key... the parents have to set themselves aside for a bit each day and this thing that we used to do 50 years ago... I know, I know... so "retro"... its called "parenting". Stick with me here... I hear it works.

removing tongue from cheek... seriously... a parent needs to meet him when he arrives home from school, sit down and go through his backpack and assignment book, structure the homework activity and ensure it is completed. More and more, the parent can wean the child from handholding and ensure that learning is taking place but always providing an environment of, "You know that's gonna get done, right?".

It takes some time and it's quite a "pain" if you are a selfish self-involved individual. It's even a little annoying if you're a parent! 

R


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## Jan Doling (May 21, 2004)

He should be checked for depression, ADHD, learning disabilities and the possibility of abuse or molestation.


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## MTTMATSUA (May 23, 2007)

Hey all;

Thank you soooo much for all the replies!!! I really found the ones about deprssion interesting...

I had a long (red ear, arm numb kinda long...) talk w/ my friend last night and kinda laid it all out. I do think she needs to spend more time at home, and I told her 'stuff' wasn't as important as her son. Think that brought some of it into perspective.

Also, it came out that she and her husband have been having some problems. I told her son is prob. so distracted by that he cannot focus. She didn't think that was it but would tell his teacher. Husband is kind of, well, not nice. My DH hasn't ever been tooo crazy about him; I think he tolerates him when we go to visit because she and I have been friends for so long!

She went to the afterschool program and now son is do do his work there, take it home, mom reviews it, signs it and he turns it in. No signature, mom gets a call.

Of course I had to get the 'well if I could sit at home all day like you it would be easy'. No, the bleeding in my tongue has stopped now, thanks for asking  (I really wanted to say if she maybe kept a car for more than 2 years and learned to cook...ok, I digress...LOL!!!) She is a nice person, we have known each other forever, so I think I just got the snitchy answer because she knows I am there for her and the kids, with nothing expected in return.

Again, thanks for the links and good advice...but now I must really get back to my truffles and soap operas, right?? Actually, back to boxing up some workbooks we used years ago.

...then truffles...

thanks again!!
 Bonnie


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Popsicles are very good for bitten tongues: it is the standard treatment unless stitches are needed. Or so my nursing instructors say.

You are a good friend to stay so focused when she is talking so wild!


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

First of all, I would have the kid tested for vision, hearing and possible learning disabilities. If that all checks out clear, then someone needs to find what - specifically - the problem is. I'd have a serious sit-down conversation with ALL of the teachers involved and try to determine what the reason for the poor grades is.

From the your post, my impression is that there is no discipline at home and that nobody is willing to put their foot down (or that your friend tries but is countered by the husband). If she is truly interested in helping her son then she needs to take a good, hard look at how they are handling things in the home, because IMHO most schools are pretty lame and 90 percent of learning occurs independently of it. 

donsgal


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## Wildwood Flower (Aug 26, 2006)

My son started having trouble at school about that age. It was because of trouble at home. I would have her to look into this--maybe family counseling.

Reading to him would be great. And taking a great interest in his school work.

The teacher conference is a MUST>

Good luck! I hope the boy improves.


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