# Getting started is difficult



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

I am in no hurry to start hives, but several times over the last year I have sat down determined to understand how one creates a workable habitat for bees. As a novice, rookie, greenhorn, or future beehaver, I have to say that I have yet to feel like I have the slightest idea what I am supposed to provide.

Much of the information comes at you as if you already know why you would want or need this particular item you are trying to learn about. "Queen excluder: 8 3/4 x 9 1/2 to be placed here there or yonder". Wait! Why do I need to exclude my queen? Does this size fit the current hive I am considering? Do you only use it sometimes? Typically, if it's part of a forum thread, it will quickly devolve into a "my hive is better than your hive and your dog looks funny too". If a newbie pops into said thread, a "read the sticky! Can't you see we are busy arguing?" will soon follow. 

I have read the sticky here for "new beekers" as well as other forums, college research papers, and 4 comic strips. Other than a general dread of "you will most likely fail and your bees will suffer a long painful death at your hands" along with a "we told you to join a beekeeper club to get some real answers", I still haven't the foggiest idea how to spend anywhere from $300 to $900 to start a single hive properly. 

I realise that all the people taking time out of their personal life to participate in forums like this are doing so out of the kindness of their heart, but I guess just once in 50 different Google seaches I would have run across 1 place that said, " buy 1 of these from thatplace.org. You need it because the queen like to play chess and this is where she does that. Also get one of these because ....." You get the idea. 

Seriously, I honestly believe I could find step by step directions to remove, rebuild, and reinstall a diesel tractor engine thru Google. It is very frustrating. 

Why can't some start at the bottom plate and just say everything that goes between it and the top plate without trying to mention the other 21,754 possible choices one could put there. Now that would make for a sticky. 

End rant


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## marusempai (Sep 16, 2007)

It doesn't help that everybody does it differently. Ask 10 beeks a question and you will get 11 answers.  I was greatly helped by the "Beekeeping for Dummies" book. Also my local bee club. They had a class and it was wonderful. Once you have a base set of understanding, everything suddenly makes a whole lot more sense.


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## Bubba1358 (Nov 6, 2013)

Having tried twice and failed both times, here's three things I've learned:

1. The bees cannot get too hot (my second hive absconded in July last year - the hive placement was in direct sunlight from 10 AM to 3 PM).

2. The bees need more food than you think they do. My first hive starved over winter, and I think it was a direct result of me only putting out a feed jar once a week - sometimes less if it was very flowery outside. I think this has to do with indigenous competition - they're butting in on others' established territory, so until the hive gets strong enough to be the biggest game in town, they need lots of sugar syrup. Never let it go empty!

3. The actual hive itself of of little consequence. Heck, they've been building hives in hollowed out trees by themselves since before any of us existed! As long as it is not too hot and not too cold, and there's enough food and room to expand, they'll be fine in whatever method of hive you choose.

I know my second hive is still alive and around - I've seen them forage around my house in the last few weeks. So, even though my hive is now empty, the bees are still OK. Next step - finding out where they went, and harvesting that WILD honey next spring.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

First off a queen excluder it used to keep the queen from going in the honey supers and laying eggs so you end up with brood in the honey supers. Brood isn't a real problem if you let the brood hatch out except you will have that cocoon in the cells where the brood was making it smaller.

Go to this sticky and read it. any thing you don't under stand ask questions about. there is a whole list of equipment you have to have and some that is nice to have and stuff just to lay in a work box never to be used.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/li.../391373-so-you-think-you-want-bee-keeper.html 

There variations on how people do things Per the part of the country they live in. Here in the north we all have two deeps or a variation to equal the same area in other configurations. I fully believe if you ask 10 beekeepers a question you will get from 11 to 18 answers from the same 10 persons. Some after listening to others answers are bound to change theirs.

I try to keep my bees in full sun from sun up to sun down. I do things to ventilate the hive such open up the screen bottom board and lifting the top cover to allow air to circulate.

 Al


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

FWIW, I spent a lot less than $300 on my hives (home built top bar hives) and have had bees for years (just a couple hives) and not lost any. I captured my first swarm with a local beek and split from there as required. I know mileage varies, but my philosophy is that bees know how to take care of themselves, I just give them a comfy place to do it. I literally don't do anything but occasionally divide a hive and harvest a comb or two in season. They've dealt with hive beetles and mites on their own, and presumably robbing bees, although I have yet to witness that personally. I've moved them 3 times from a couple miles to a couple dozen miles. The bees are educational and fun for the whole family.

Check out: http://www.backyardhive.com/ That's where I got started.


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

You have a beekeepers club less than 30 miles from you. Join it and go to the meetings. Talk to some of the keeps there. Beekeeping is soooo local that no one can tell you exactly how to keep bees at your location. You have to get general info and then tailor it to your own situation. Once you get to the club, ask a beek or two to allow you to go into a couple of hives with them. The club can also help you with the initial set up. They can tell you what is available, when to use what, and where it can be gotten. Most clubs have members who will come to your yard and go through your hive with you when asked.





Bell / Coryell Beekeepers Association
President: Dennis M. Herbert
Contact: [email protected]
Phone: 254-947-8633
Meetings Every Third Thursday of the Month except December, 7pm
Trinity Worship Center
7986 Rita Bend Dr.
Salado, TX 76571




Also, you are only about 75 mile from Bweaver bee farm. They sell bees. They are one of the largest bee suppliers in the USA. Contact them and pay them a visit. It will be very educational.


Then join a few bee forums. Allyooper, myself, and a few others will be here to help you. We are also on www.worldwidebeekeeping.com , along with many others, including Tecumseh, the A&M apiarist it College Station, Tx.


The info is out there, you just have to extract what you need from the myriad of other info that only applies to others, then add your own personal touch.


Here's wishing you luck and enjoyment with your bees. It is there, you just have to dig it out.


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## txsteele (Nov 19, 2014)

I keep hearing new beekeepers saying similar things all over this forum? This is certainly not a swipe at you but for goodness sakes, it's 2016! 

YouTube might be the novice beekeepers best friend. There are thousands of videos from thousands of beekeepers about thousands of different issues. It is literally a library that's video. 

Sooooooo much info there that requires no reading. It's like taking an on-line class. 

Give it a try.

Good luck going forward.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Well, no need to argue. I see you say that many people say what I did, and I feel affirmed that the needed info is scattered, contradictory, and basically unorganised. You see, apparently, a bunch of people too lazy to watch a video, much less read. 

We just see it differently. Once I have managed my way thru this, I will attempt to document it as a forum post before I forget how confusing it is, or what questions seemed to be most difficult to answer.


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

Mr. RG, I think you'll find that there simply is no "one answer" to most of the questions, which is why there is no "one resource" to point people to. Find what works for you and enjoy it. Best wishes to you in your journey.


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## txsteele (Nov 19, 2014)

thericeguy said:


> Well, no need to argue. I see you say that many people say what I did, and I feel affirmed that the needed info is scattered, contradictory, and basically unorganised. You see, apparently, a bunch of people too lazy to watch a video, much less read.
> 
> We just see it differently. Once I have managed my way thru this, I will attempt to document it as a forum post before I forget how confusing it is, or what questions seemed to be most difficult to answer.



Sorry about that. I didn't intend to come across as argumentative or rude. I just feel like YouTube is an excellent resource to be used. You can get hundreds of different ideas and tips from other Keeps. 

If that's not your thing I understand.


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

txsteele, just how much is youtube worth to a person that can't hear?

I for one can't, and I do get perturbed when youtube is sourced as the one and only, or close to it.


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

I too get bothered by the constant references to YouTube. I prefer to read and learn than watch and learn.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

txsteele, ok fair enough. The interwebz often make things come acrosd wrong. Perhaps my whole thread suffers from that. 

Let me try and explain the failing of youtube AND written material to someone so new they barely know the right questions to ask. 

Video 1: This is my brood box ....
Video 2: I am taking this deep ...
Video 3: Here we have our super ...

All 3 videos are showing and discussing the exact same thing. Repeat this confusion for every aspect of the hive; frames, bottoms and tops, foundation (available in ar least 3 materials no doubt, and just about anything else you know about that even I do not. Now ponder each of those items available in 3 sizes. Its not a lack of info that is the problem. It is info overload. 

Do I get 2 deeps for brood, an excluder, and 2 mediums for honey? At some point, there is a glazing over of the eyes and you go numb. If there was a thread here that said, "If you live where it is warm, buy this". I would just buy it. 

What typically happens, even in this thread looks something like "its too complicated. Join a club". For people not collecting honey or making splits for a living, there should be an easier path, even if that path sometimes fails. 

Btw, reading and gathering data is very much my thing, on many many topics. My ignorance is not due to lack of effort.


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

OK, riceguy, try this. Buy a solid bottom board, a 9 5/8 deep super with 10 frames and wired wax foundation. One inner lid and one telescoping lid. Purchase a 3 pound package and install it into the deep. FEED... Release the queen after 4 or more days if she hasn't been released. 

When they have 7 to 9 frames filled and covered in bees, add a deep if you want to split next year, or a medium if you want honey this year.
By that time, you will have more of an idea what you want to use. If you decide you want to go another route, that setup will be the easiest to find a buyer for, and bring the best price. It is the 100 year old standard. If you like it, you are on your way.
Once you have bees, the info will begin to fall into place much faster.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

That looks like advice. I have looked at a lot of info about splitting. It doesnt quite make sense yet. I will keep trying until the puzzle pieces fit together. 

Thanks


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Reason things are so confusing is because there are so many differences on climate in this county that the methods that work in one place won't work in others.
Fellow above was touting his top bar hive and where he lives with very few days below or near zero it works for him Where I live with days in a row with well below zero temps and the bees would all die in t top bar hive. 

That is where a club in your area is such a valuable source to you. You learn that what they do in Texas has worked for many a year *in that area. *It would not work here in Michigan.

A bee keeping supply catalog contains a lot of the information you are looking for.
What it doesn't contain is how it is done in the many areas of the country. Just from the coastal area of say North Carolina to the mountain's how it is done is different.
Request a catalog here.
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/

the catalog will start with the hive stack and explain the use. Bottom board to give a landing and room to move up into the brood box. 
Deep hive bodies for frames that contain a foundation bees make cells in to rear brood and store honey. 
Medium and shallow boxes that hold frames use to hold frames with foundation for the bees to make cells on and store honey for YOU to rob. The inter cover with a viewing hold and a vent to allow air circulation. then the top cover to cover the whole stack and keep the weather out.

 Al


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## BohemianWaxwing (Sep 13, 2014)

The folks that run the backyardhives website are in Colorado. They get plenty of cold weather and their bees do fine. I think that they do insulate in the winter, though, which I don't have to do down here.

The TBHs do take a little longer to open and work, so might not be a great option for someone trying to get into bees as a business, but for the backyard, part time keeper with one or two hives they seem like more or less the perfect solution. Low cost to get into and no equipment to store.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

This is a thread from so you think you want to be a bee keeper I highly suggest you fully read.


*One other thing JOIN A CLUB. By joining a club you meet people with the same interest as you and are willing to help newbies. Just keep in mind that if you ask 12 beekeepers a question about bees you will probably get 15 or more answers . There is always at least 3 that change their mind or can't make up their mind.

*We belong to the state club, MBA. Has district reps that cover the whole state of Michigan even DA UP.
http://www.michiganbees.org/

The region club, SEMBA. SEMBA has bee school in the spring.
http://www.sembabees.org/

And 4 local clubs with in 50 miles of us
SchoolCraft beekeepers.
Oakland beekeepers
Seven Ponds beekeepers
Mid Michigan

Before we joined a club we didn't know a beekeeper lived a half mile away from us. 

Working our bees before we joined a club was like  stumbling around in a strange dark house at night looking for a bathroom.
Ya found it but had a lot of bumps and bruises :grit:. 

 Al


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

alleyyooper said:


> Working our bees before we joined a club was like  stumbling around in a strange dark house at night looking for a bathroom.
> Ya found it but had a lot of bumps and bruises :grit:.
> 
> Al


Yes.

It is a little easier now because of youtube, but I was trying to tell the difference between a weak hive that should be fed and a strong hive that was at risk of swarming by WRITTEN description! 

Really, sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words: joining a bee club was excellent, and so is youtube.


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## spicymustard (Jul 15, 2014)

Bubba1358 said:


> Having tried twice and failed both times, here's three things I've learned:
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The bees need more food than you think they do. My first hive starved over winter, and I think it was a direct result of me only putting out a feed jar once a week - sometimes less if it was very flowery outside. I think this has to do with indigenous competition - they're butting in on others' established territory, so until the hive gets strong enough to be the biggest game in town, they need lots of sugar syrup. Never let it go empty!


This right here is the mistake we made. First sign of cold I thought they had plenty of food and they took off.


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