# Someone please tell Greta



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

No credible scientific body has ever said climate change threatens the collapse of civilization much less the extinction of the human species. 

There was a 99.7% _decline_ in the death toll from natural disasters since its peak in 1931. In 1931, 3.7 million people died from natural disasters. In 2018, just 11,000 did. And that decline occurred over a period when the global population _quadrupled_.

IPCC estimates sea level could rise two feet (0.6 meters) by 2100. Does that sound apocalyptic or even “unmanageable”?

Consider that one-third of the Netherlands is below sea level, and some areas are _seven_ meters below sea level. You might object that Netherlands is rich while Bangladesh is poor. But the Netherlands adapted to living below sea level _400 years ago._ Technology has improved a bit since then.

Humans today produce enough food for 10 billion people, or 25% more than we need, and scientific bodies predict increases in that share, not declines. 

The United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) forecasts crop yields increasing 30% by 2050. And the poorest parts of the world, like sub-Saharan Africa, are expected to see increases of 80 to 90%.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...y-about-climate-change-is-wrong/#5207d56012d6


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The above article was written by Michael Shellenberger, an American author, environmental policy writer, cofounder of Breakthrough Institute and founder of Environmental Progress. He was named a Time magazine Heroes of the Environment, winner of the 2008 Green Book Award, co-editor of Love Your Monsters and co-author of Break Through and The Death of Environmentalism.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

My 8th grader is having to write a persuasive paper on how "global warming is affecting the world". It has to be backed up by facts, so she is quoting sources such as NASA, CNN, and some other off the wall site. So far the teacher loves it.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Ziptie said:


> My 8th grader is having to write a persuasive paper on how "global warming is affecting the world". It has to be backed up by facts, so she is quoting sources such as NASA, CNN, and some other off the wall site. So far the teacher loves it.


I sure hope you can counter that kind of indoctrination.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Ziptie said:


> My 8th grader is having to write a persuasive paper on how "global warming is affecting the world". It has to be backed up by facts, so she is quoting sources such as NASA, CNN, and some other off the wall site. So far the teacher loves it.


NASA is an off the wall site?

From NASA, everythiing in the first paragraph is true.

https://climate.nasa.gov/effects/

Global climate change has already had observable effects on the environment. Glaciers have shrunk, ice on rivers and lakes is breaking up earlier, plant and animal ranges have shifted and trees are flowering sooner.

Effects that scientists had predicted in the past would result from global climate change are now occurring: loss of sea ice, accelerated sea level rise and longer, more intense heat waves.

*Northwest.* Changes in the timing of streamflow reduce water supplies for competing demands. Sea level rise, erosion, inundation, risks to infrastructure and increasing ocean acidity pose major threats.* Increasing wildfire, insect outbreaks and tree diseases are causing widespread tree die-off.*

What I have bolded is all happening where I live. Mountain Pine Beetle has killed off 90% of lodgepole pine in the northwest. 2017 and 2018 were worst fire years in our known history


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> What I have bolded is all happening where I live. Mountain Pine Beetle has killed off 90% of lodgepole pine in the northwest. 2017 and 2018 were worst fire years *in our known history*


You mean a couple of *hundred* years compared to the 4 *billion* years the planet has been here?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I just got off the phone with Greta and told her.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> I just got off the phone with Greta and told her.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

She did not take it well, not well at all.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

keenataz said:


> NASA is an off the wall site?
> 
> From NASA, everythiing in the first paragraph is true.
> 
> ...



No, you misunderstood the way I wrote the sentence. I stated she sited NASA , CNN, and some other off the wall site. Meaning the third site she was quoting as some non technical site that I have never heard of. Not saying that NASA is off the wall. As for CNN..well I just won't go there.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Wolf mom said:


> I sure hope you can counter that kind of indoctrination.


She doesn't believe the nonsense she is writing. Just doing it for the grade. Though she is getting some digs in if you actually think about what she writes. 

Her teacher told her today that her paper is so well written he is going to use it as an example for future classes.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Don't pick on Greta. The poor kid is brainwashed. A classic example of liberal child abuse.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Ziptie said:


> ...Though she is getting some digs in if you actually think about what she writes. ...


It’s a shame her audience (the teacher) isn’t going to get it, then.

Teach them what you’re told to think.

That is the ENTIRE job description, now.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

HDRider said:


> No credible scientific body has ever said climate change threatens the collapse of civilization much less the extinction of the human species.
> 
> There was a 99.7% _decline_ in the death toll from natural disasters since its peak in 1931. In 1931, 3.7 million people died from natural disasters. In 2018, just 11,000 did. And that decline occurred over a period when the global population _quadrupled_.
> 
> ...


I'll just be happy when these "sky is falling" yahoos shut their pie holes.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> She did not take it well, not well at all.


Yeah, I dont think I will get a gift from her for Christmas. I told her don't blame the messenger though.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> From NASA, everythiing in the first paragraph is true.
> 
> https://climate.nasa.gov/effects/
> 
> Global climate change has already had observable effects on the environment. Glaciers have shrunk, ice on rivers and lakes is breaking up earlier, plant and animal ranges have shifted and trees are flowering sooner.


You mean it's happening just as it's happened ever since time began.
Are we supposed to act surprised?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Ziptie said:


> My 8th grader is having to write a persuasive paper on how "global warming is affecting the world". It has to be backed up by facts, so she is quoting sources such as NASA, CNN, and some other off the wall site. So far the teacher loves it.


It is affecting the world thru fear, intimidation, guilt, labels, forced indoctrination (this is where the teacher pauses and looks up to the right as she ponders the last statement). You could possibly use the re education segment of public education as a source and throw in a few of her own teacher's quotes for effect.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I don't like being lied to.

I don't like using kids as a propaganda tool.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Who would the sheep and the donkey represent in this video?
You can probably draw your own conclusions.



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2907403452608270


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

*The five corrupt pillars of climate change denial  *
November 28, 2019 1.00pm GMT
https://theconversation.com/the-five-corrupt-pillars-of-climate-change-denial-122893


> The fossil fuel industry, political lobbyists, media moguls and individuals have spent the past 30 years sowing doubt about the reality of climate change - where none exists. The latest estimate is that the world’s five largest publicly-owned oil and gas companies spend about US$200 million a year on lobbying to control, delay or block binding climate policy.
> 
> Their hold on the public seems to be waning. *Two recent polls suggested over 75% of Americans think humans are causing climate change.* School climate strikes, Extinction Rebellion protests, national governments declaring a climate emergency, improved media coverage of climate change and an increasing number of extreme weather events have all contributed to this shift. There also seems to be a renewed optimism that we can deal with the crisis.
> 
> *But this means lobbying has changed, now employing more subtle and more vicious approaches – what has been termed as “climate sadism”. It is used to mock young people going on climate protests and to ridicule Greta Thunberg, a 16-year-old young woman with Asperger’s, who is simply telling the scientific truth. *


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Steve_S said:


> *The five corrupt pillars of climate change denial  *
> November 28, 2019 1.00pm GMT
> https://theconversation.com/the-five-corrupt-pillars-of-climate-change-denial-122893


We can cross swords endlessly with articles and research to support "our side".

I don't pollute any more than my meager existence requires, and it is less each passing day. Peace.

I am one person. I do what one person can to make our world better. It gets better with each passing day.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

The intelligent TOUGH GUYS show their true colours by Bashing Kids and people concerned for their futures as well as everyone else's, including yours if they are unfortunate enough to have you as a parent.. Come out into the REAL WORLD and say that stuff and see just how far you'll get... The LOWEST OF THE LOWEST can't get any lower and more disgusting than bashing kids and guess what... Almost ALL Parents are protective of their kids and will defend them against abusers and violators... 

Fortunately it's only a few belligerent souls here that have voice and allowed to continue that bull... but thanks to the few, many have found better places to contribute to and help grow. HT was good but not much anymore....


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Steve_S said:


> *The five corrupt pillars of climate change denial  *
> November 28, 2019 1.00pm GMT
> https://theconversation.com/the-five-corrupt-pillars-of-climate-change-denial-122893


Define Climate Policy. Which ones have been blocked?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Steve_S said:


> The *intelligent* TOUGH GUYS show their true colours


Others just rant on the internet.



Steve_S said:


> HT was good but not much anymore....


Yeah, it's always someone else's fault.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Steve_S said:


> The intelligent TOUGH GUYS show their true colours by Bashing Kids and people concerned for their futures as well as everyone else's, including yours if they are unfortunate enough to have you as a parent.. Come out into the REAL WORLD and say that stuff and see just how far you'll get... The LOWEST OF THE LOWEST can't get any lower and more disgusting than bashing kids and guess what... Almost ALL Parents are protective of their kids and will defend them against abusers and violators...
> 
> Fortunately it's only a few belligerent souls here that have voice and allowed to continue that bull... but thanks to the few, many have found better places to contribute to and help grow. HT was good but not much anymore....


Exactly.
I'd be glad to throw the father's bail money should any one of these woman/child bashers ever say anything like that face to face, but we know that's not going to happen for several reasons...
They just aren't going to step out into the light of day.

It's clear the site has different objectives than homesteading, or even reasonable conversation.
You can't discuss electric vehicles without the guys with an agenda polluting the thread,
One guy wants to kill all corn, the point of homesteading is getting back to the land,
Others want to fondle your wife, daughters whenever and wherever they feel like it,
It's perfectly acceptable to tell a young teenage girl to shut up and have sex...

I don't know where these people live, but I'm glad it's not too close to me.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Steve_S said:


> The intelligent TOUGH GUYS show their true colours by Bashing Kids and people concerned for their futures as well as everyone else's, including yours if they are unfortunate enough to have you as a parent.. Come out into the REAL WORLD and say that stuff and see just how far you'll get... The LOWEST OF THE LOWEST can't get any lower and more disgusting than bashing kids and guess what... Almost ALL Parents are protective of their kids and will defend them against abusers and violators...
> 
> Fortunately it's only a few belligerent souls here that have voice and allowed to continue that bull... but thanks to the few, many have found better places to contribute to and help grow. HT was good but not much anymore....


I think most folks here on HT feel sorry for her.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

HDRider said:


> I think most folks here on HT feel sorry for her.


Only the few Sorry Soul's that have to denigrate & bash today's youth because their own weak ego's and fearfulness they so strongly hold onto. These kids are Who are tomorrow's Lawyer's, Doctors, Nurses, old age home workers & even politicians...


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Steve_S said:


> Only the few Sorry Soul's that have to denigrate & bash today's youth because their own weak ego's and fearfulness they so strongly hold onto. These kids are Who are tomorrow's Lawyer's, Doctors, Nurses, old age home workers & even politicians...


You need to calm down

You gonna pop


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Steve_S said:


> The intelligent TOUGH GUYS show their true colours by Bashing Kids and people concerned for their futures as well as everyone else's, including yours if they are unfortunate enough to have you as a parent.. Come out into the REAL WORLD and say that stuff and see just how far you'll get... The LOWEST OF THE LOWEST can't get any lower and more disgusting than bashing kids and guess what... Almost ALL Parents are protective of their kids and will defend them against abusers and violators...
> 
> Fortunately it's only a few belligerent souls here that have voice and allowed to continue that bull... but thanks to the few, many have found better places to contribute to and help grow. HT was good but not much anymore....


My daughter was offered a lucrative modelling contract when she was very young and I declined the most gracious offer because I didn't want my child subjected to public scrutiny. 

I'm somewhat convinced that parents who put send their kids off for fame and glory are committing a form of child abuse because the path is littered with destroyed lives of child celebrities before her. 

I also have a feeling that one of the reasons Greta is so popular for some is because of your own words. Anyone who disagrees with her message is immediately dismissed as a jerk, who's picking on a kid. 

It seems to me that you can't have it both ways. If you feel that she is the perfect spokesperson, then you have accept that like all other teen superstars, she's capable of accepting the negatives as well and if you don't feel she's capable of handling the negatives, I would suggest her parents should put an immediate stop to marketing and look to other voices capable of handling the pros and cons of public scrutiny.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Steve_S said:


> Only the few Sorry Soul's that have to denigrate & bash today's youth because their own weak ego's and fearfulness they so strongly hold onto. These kids are Who are tomorrow's Lawyer's, Doctors, Nurses, old age home workers & even politicians...


I have a niece who's working hard on being tomorrow's doctor and started taking university courses when she was a bit younger than Greta. To date, there are no videos of her screaming at others, she's humble, polite and respectful and while she works hard for causes dear to her, she has always felt her message was better received in a respecful and classy manner and it seems to be working well for her.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Steve_S said:


> The intelligent TOUGH GUYS show their true colours by Bashing Kids and people concerned for their futures as well as everyone else's, including yours if they are unfortunate enough to have you as a parent.. Come out into the REAL WORLD and say that stuff and see just how far you'll get... The LOWEST OF THE LOWEST can't get any lower and more disgusting than bashing kids and guess what... Almost ALL Parents are protective of their kids and will defend them against abusers and violators...
> 
> Fortunately it's only a few belligerent souls here that have voice and allowed to continue that bull... but thanks to the few, many have found better places to contribute to and help grow. HT was good but not much anymore....


Might be the turkey coma, or the mods have deleted a post of two, but reading thru the posts I don't seem to see anyone "bashing kids".
Actually I don't seem to see anything worthy of the jack your pants up physical threats.
But as has been mentioned before, when you don't have any argument, selective moral outrage always seems to quiet the room.

"Ladies and gentleman, my son/daughter will now speak. Any differing opinions will be dealt with with anger and vitriole.
They are still a child, and therefore exempt from any criticism, be it thru questions or differing points of view.
Because of their age, their statements will trump any further discussion. Thank you for coming. We have tapes, books and audio cds or sale at the table in back."


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

If one doesn't align with current climate change (not deniers, I don't think anyone can concretely state the climate isn't changing) that Ms. Thunberg details, perhaps they should stop reading about her. After all, many have announced she's brainwashed, coached, and a puppet. So why start and post on thread after thread with Greta this, and Greta that? 

Here are two opinions, perhaps they can explain why some people are so vitriolic. 

"Detractors have dismissed Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg—a Nobel Prize nominee—as mentally ill, hysterical and a millennial weirdo after she pleaded with world officials last week to address the climate crisis.

Here, two researchers explain the stereotypical labels deployed by critics to undermine Thunberg’s call to action, which the activist herself has described as “too loud for people to handle”."

https://qz.com/1719873/greta-thunberg-comes-under-attack-from-misogynistic-men/


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> If one doesn't align with current climate change (not deniers, I don't think anyone can concretely state the climate isn't changing) that Ms. Thunberg details, perhaps they should stop reading about her. After all, many have announced she's brainwashed, coached, and a puppet. So why start and post on thread after thread with Greta this, and Greta that?
> 
> Here are two opinions, perhaps they can explain why some people are so vitriolic.
> 
> ...


The thread was "supposed" to be about a person offering an article about climate change.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> The thread was "supposed" to be about a person offering an article about climate change.


Yet there's that pesky title, "Someone please tell Greta." Just sayin'.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yet there's that pesky title, "Someone please tell Greta." Just sayin'.


She would be the person. 



Irish Pixie said:


> After all, many have announced she's brainwashed, coached, and a puppet.


Only because it's true.



Irish Pixie said:


> Here are two opinions, perhaps they can explain why *some people* *are so vitriolic*.


*Some people* always seem to disagree, don't they?
Why can't we all just get along?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> *Some people* always seem to disagree, don't they?


Has hell frozen over? I actually agree with you.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

GTX63 said:


> Might be the turkey coma, or the mods have deleted a post of two, but reading thru the posts I don't seem to see anyone "bashing kids".
> Actually I don't seem to see anything worthy of the jack your pants up physical threats.
> But as has been mentioned before, when you don't have any argument, selective moral outrage always seems to quiet the room.
> 
> ...


Mods have not deleted any comments.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> You can't discuss electric vehicles without *the guys with an agenda* polluting the thread,


Your own agenda is showing again.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Still trying to figure out what climate policy has been blocked by the oil company that the @Steve_S article claims. 

@JeepHammer says no one wants to debate or discuss but all I have seen from him this thread are whines and gripes. 

This is why nothing gets done. Most want to cry and moan and not do anything at all but allude to a higher ground than everyone else. 

Have a great Thanksgiving Y'all.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yet there's that pesky title, "Someone please tell Greta." Just sayin'.


That was the hook for the thread, just like she is the hook for climate change.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

You have to marvel at the psychology of using poor Greta. Using her as the front man is brilliant.

I put a thread out there quoting a guy, who, by his biography, appears eminently qualified on the subject, that tries to calm the waters. I don't think ONE PERSON discussed the article.

Greta makes us snipe at each other. One side says the poor kid has a right to be heard, the other side says she is a shill.

The psychology of using Greta is absolutely brilliant. That ain't no accident.

Carry on.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> If one doesn't align with current climate change (not deniers, I don't think anyone can concretely state the climate isn't changing) that Ms. Thunberg details, perhaps they should stop reading about her. After all, many have announced she's brainwashed, coached, and a puppet. So why start and post on thread after thread with Greta this, and Greta that?
> 
> Here are two opinions, perhaps they can explain why some people are so vitriolic.
> 
> ...


That's kinda been my point all along. As soon as you allow your child to become a public figure, you set them up for all kinds of opinions and it doesn't just apply to climate change. 

I'm happy she has an opinion and I'm thrilled she's not sitting in a basement playing video games but it really doesn't matter if it's climate change, first female NHL hockey player or a young entertainer, every facet of their life seems to come under public scrutiny and there was no reason to believe that she would be exempt. 


.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

wr said:


> My daughter was offered a lucrative modelling contract when she was very young and I declined the most gracious offer because I didn't want my child subjected to public scrutiny.
> 
> I'm somewhat convinced that parents who put send their kids off for fame and glory are committing a form of child abuse because the path is littered with destroyed lives of child celebrities before her.
> 
> ...


Well said. Many people that have avoided engaging her personally are chastised as hating her because they disagree with her "message" or the manner in which she delivers it.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

It's the misogynistic, and mistaken, belief that a teen girl can't research and form her own opinion and speak intelligently on the topic.

While I see anti-woman, anti-immigrant, anti-brown people, anti-science, pretty much anti-everything, I don't see one good, or even reasonable idea from the same bunch over & over again.
No good ideas, no support, no wanting someone else to succeed...

While some would pity those, I don't because it's all self-inflicted.

And again I point out,
They spend endless hours trying to justify casting dispersions on a teen girl on a backwater corner of the internet, in the dark, against all ration or reason,
While SHE gets something done, goes places, meets real people, and doesn't even know they exist.

Obsession is a pretty good description of the behavior, which is another reason I'm glad they don't live around me...

I also now why they pound on Greta endlessly, they are just parroting what the alt.right posts endlessly about, what ever the topic of the day or week is, it shows up here, and from the same guys..
Which is a paradox for me since this is *Supposed* to be about homesteading, not the latest alt.right conspiracy theory.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

The thing is it does affect homesteading. If they won't let you have cows any more because it is bad for the environment or regulate you out.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

JeepHammer said:


> It's the misogynistic, and mistaken, belief that a teen girl can't research and form her own opinion and speak intelligently on the topic.


And when reporters say that oil companies have blocked climate policy with no proof whatsoever, and so called people that are scientifically motivated repeat it verbatim with no proof or scientific basis I wonder why too. 

So many things get repeated back and forth. From both sides. None of it is ever proven but both sides believe it whole hog. All we have been doing is fighting for 20+ years and I guess we will continue to for the next 20. 

You claim you want to debate, then debate my question I asked earlier.

*What climate policy have oil companies blocked so far? *


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> It's the misogynistic, and mistaken, belief that a teen girl can't research and form her own opinion and speak intelligently on the topic.


Some can.
She didn't.
We've seen how she acts when not reading from a script.



JeepHammer said:


> While I see anti-woman, anti-immigrant, anti-brown people, anti-science, pretty much anti-everything, I don't see one good, or even reasonable idea from the same bunch over & over again.
> No good ideas, no support, no wanting someone else to succeed...


You say that in nearly all your posts.
It's clear what you think of those who don't always agree with *you*.
Patterns never change.



JeepHammer said:


> And again I point out


And again, and again, and again.......



JeepHammer said:


> Which is a paradox for me since *this is *Supposed* to be about homesteading*, not the latest alt.right conspiracy theory.


This is "GC".
It's one of the sections reserved for topics not always directly related to homesteading.

It's not a blog for anyone's personal use, and no one gets to control the content aside from the moderators. 

You claim they are "unfair" and you're somehow prevented from telling the truth, but we've heard those lines too many times from too many others to think they are true.



JeepHammer said:


> and from the same guys..


and again and again and again.......


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

JeepHammer said:


> While I see *anti-woman, anti-immigrant, anti-brown people, anti-science, pretty much anti-everything, *I don't see one good, or even reasonable idea from the same bunch over & over again.
> No good ideas, no support, no wanting someone else to succeed...
> 
> theory.


I am sure you can provide factual links to reflect all this. Factual, not your biased opinion


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I have changed my mind. 

I fully support the concept of man made climate change (formally known as global warming).

As I do not have the wealth to fly my private jet to an all important climate change summit, I will do my part by having a ceremonial tire fire in my back yard.

May the plumes of black smoke show my utter disgust with those who refuse to give up all control of their lives, along with most of their income, to a group of all knowing socialist control freaks.

I only urge us all to act fast as the solar activity that causes climate change may end at any time.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

The CHICKEN LITTLES are going nuts... 

*"give up all control of their lives, along with most of their income,"
"If they won't let you have cows any more because it is bad for the "*

*Ohhh the Drama of FEAR MONGERING....* How utterly ridiculous and so far out of reasonableness or reality it must be true ! It' DRAMATIC ! 



mreynolds said:


> And when reporters say that oil companies have blocked climate policy with no proof whatsoever


 YES INDEED... Much proof has been provided with links and more BUT don't look, don't believe... Naw..... Just like the FLAT PLANET Geniuses refuse to accept reality, or the Creationists who the world laughs at because it's so pathetically idiotic ! Sure, the universe spins around earth, not the earth circling the sun.... You could have been hung for thinking that not that long ago.... Evolution and teaching that was also illegal not that long ago.... 

Why are some so closed minded ? Fear does it everytime… Maybe you were terrified that Microwaves Ovens would cook you from the inside out, maybe you believe the Power Co's Smart Meter spies on you and your activities, Ohhh Cell phones will rot your brains because of the radio waves... 

*Seriously, the FUD "fear, uncertainty and doubt, usually evoked intentionally in order to put a competitor at a disadvantage". "the FUD factor" is tedious and it's all been beaten to death....* YET Chicken Littles get Dramatic with statements like WE WILL DEVOLVE INTO CAVE MEN.... We will not be allowed BEEF anymore... 100% EXTREMIST NONSENSE.

Ask yourself when your in the grocery store looking at Beef products from Brazil, Bolivia and elsewhere, WHY are we buying that crap from so far away, why from the farms just down the road ? Why not buy & support local, regional or national product first (with a much lower overall carbon footprint) ? 

*Global Climate Coalition: Documents Reveal How Secretive Fossil Fuel Lobby Group Manipulated UN Climate Programs *https://www.desmog.co.uk/2019/04/25...ments-secretive-fossil-fuel-lobby-un-programs BUT DON'T LOOK, it would take 5 Minutes to read it and if you follow links, Ohhh My you might actually get it.

Now the above is a collective article incorporating many Verifiable, Credible & Tangible data points and articles.... BUT there are many similar articles in various media that show the same tangible info... Even accredited journalists have shown it and proved it investigatively. BUT FEEL FREE to Stick to your Tabloid Sources like Fox & Friends.... 

The ongoing aggression in all it's forms towards kids and such, only further underlines the fear quotient, if you feel that bullying, threatening and belittling is your only route, you need help... I miss the day's when we would just beat the snot out of Bullies...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Steve_S said:


> The ongoing aggression in all it's forms towards kids and such, only further underlines the fear quotient, if you feel that bullying, threatening and belittling is your only route, you need help... I miss the day's when we would just beat the snot out of Bullies...


Reading the early snippet of your post could lead one to believe you are guilty of the crimes of which you accuse others, with the add on of referencing physical harm to those who don't seem to line up to your lines of thought.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

She shows signs of being on the autism spectrum and her parents are obviously exploiting her. I don't take her as the face of the movement to enslave all of humanity to unaccountable government entities in the name of a meaningless fight against inevitable forces of nature, I just see her as a poor exploited kid.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> Reading the early snippet of your post could lead one to believe you are guilty of the crimes of which you accuse others, with the add on of referencing physical harm to those who don't seem to line up to your lines of thought.


The Old Turnabout Trick … indeed. Stay in your inherited house while collecting social security and contributing nothing but Fear and Anger or what you perceive as a direct threat to you.... the opinions of not only Greta but a world full of people concerned about a future for everyone… WY are you so fearful & angry ? Your coasting on the dole with nothing better to do ?

All irrelevant, my points have been well proven by the responses here and in other threads.... so not bothering with this farce anymore...

BTW: Maybe you should get angry at Ford over their Mustang inspired MACH-E which already has the first model year sold out even before they put the nuts & bolts together... BTW 60% is going to Europe ! Or how about GM who is making Electric cars for China but NOT the market that made the company ! Why not be mad at the people who are contaminating your foods with chemicals, pesticides and an assortment of industrial chemical preservatives and such.... Why is the birthrate in the US collapsing ? WHAT's THE CAUSE ? why is there such a massive increase in Cancer's in and around all the industrial areas in the US ? never mind, that would be too much for you and your pals eh.... 

Good luck stewing in your own little world, be happy your not even a 1 percenter. Turn that about, have fun with it and just further prove my points. Have a Happily miserable life. Look up CURMUDGEON !


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Steve_S said:


> I miss the day's when we would just beat the snot out of Bullies...


Nothing is holding you back.
Let us know how it works out for you
(And be sure too include pictures)



Steve_S said:


> so not bothering with this farce anymore...


We've heard that one before.
It was false then too.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'm thinking the in laws stuck around a little too long yesterday...


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> Reading the early snippet of your post could lead one to believe you are guilty of the crimes of which you accuse others, with the add on of referencing physical harm to those who don't seem to line up to your lines of thought.


And another willing to pay people to beat up those that don't line up with them.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> I'm thinking the in laws stuck around a little too long yesterday...


Or it's too cold up there to go outside and work off all the pent up anger and frustration. Some people seem to be mad at everyone.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

@Steve_S Showing some extra tolerance today..


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Steve_S said:


> The CHICKEN LITTLES are going nuts...
> 
> *"give up all control of their lives, along with most of their income,"
> "If they won't let you have cows any more because it is bad for the "*
> ...



If you really read your link you will see that the group [tried to] help form responsible climate policy. They didn't just go with every hairbrained idea that came down the pipes. They still have plenty of hairbrained ideas they are trying to get passed. 

What have you done for climate change? I'll tell you what I have done. I have weatherized over a million square feet of apts here in Texas. (under that old climate scrooge Governor Bush in your article) I have done the same for hundreds of commercial properties and 100's of houses. It didn't even cost the taxpayer a thing. Oh and I have done many more for the Dept of Energy with taxpayer money before that. Bush figured out a way to do the same thing without taxpayer funds. 

So before you post an anti energy article about Bush you should know the facts. He was also instrumental in all those windmills we have here. 

I have been a government sub prime contractor in *this very field*. Believe me when I tell you to be very afraid when they ask for tax money to fund these programs. It can all be done largely without it. Save the tax funds for research instead. 

You are disingenuous for accusing me and others for exactly what you are guilty of.
*Your sky is falling*. I have been propping mine up for decades. You don't know me at all. 

Calm down chicken little and go out and get something done.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Bashing and ridiculing young people for having different ideas and fighting for them is nothing new. We have been watching the Tom Hanks mini series - The 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s and the abuse the young took back then - especially over the war - was just as vicious. Actually more so than what has been done to the climate protesters so far after all the National Guard has not fired on them as at Kent State - over 70 shots fired and 4 dead. But that may change as the challenge heats up.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

emdeengee said:


> Bashing and ridiculing young people for having different ideas and fighting for them is nothing new. We have been watching the Tom Hanks mini series - The 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s and the abuse the young took back then - especially over the war - was just as vicious. Actually more so than what has been done to the climate protesters so far after all the National Guard has not fired on them as at Kent State - over 70 shots fired and 4 dead. But that may change *as the challenge heats up*.


It doesn't have to be a challenge though. Everyone agrees that pollution is bad. Boiler fumes are pollution. Car exhaust is pollution. Instead we have these 2 sides that want to fight over whose fault it is and only a small minority gets stuff done while the rest just want to fight about it. 

Who cares whose fault it is? The damage is done. Lets work on the solution now. 

A lot of people make money because of the argument, that's why.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I wish it was that simple @mreynolds 

Through the UN, developed nations, like the US, are asked to fund developing nations. From the UN website.
On the international support being sought for NAMAs, (nationally appropriate mitigation action) the document reports a cumulative total of USD 31.5 billion in international support sought by all NAMA entries for implementing or preparing NAMAs. Financial support continued to make up the greatest share of international support sought (USD 29.5 billion), followed by technological support (USD 1.7 billion) and capacity-building support (USD 0.21 billion).

https://unfccc.int/news/more-developing-countries-seek-support-for-namas

The new projects
https://www4.unfccc.int/sites/publicnama/SitePages/Home.aspx​


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Steve_S said:


> The Old Turnabout Trick … indeed. Stay in your inherited house while collecting social security and contributing nothing but Fear and Anger or what you perceive as a direct threat to you.... the opinions of not only Greta but a world full of people concerned about a future for everyone… WY are you so fearful & angry ? Your coasting on the dole with nothing better to do ?
> 
> All irrelevant, my points have been well proven by the responses here and in other threads.... so not bothering with this farce anymore...
> 
> ...


Your insult riddled post should be deleted but I would actually like you to answer a few questions. You and so many others seem to forget that Canada and the US aren't the major emissions issue so perhaps you'd like to take the opportunity to explain how insulting North Americans is addressing emissions in other countries and how you feel that should be addressed? Shall we reduce our emissions to 0 while watching industry migrate to those unregulated countries?

Do you have some plan to put the men and women that will be put out of work by abrupt policy change and have you considered the implications for the agricultural industry? We were told that our carbon tax would have no impact on farmers but according to my neighbours, carbon tax has caused their parts to increase 20%, fertilizer costs to skyrocket and commercial trucking has no exemption so the cost of getting their grain shipped has increased greatly. 

Can we afford to sacrifice our agricultural industry and can low income families afford another significant increase in groceries? The woman I saw crying at the grocery store the other day doesn't seem to feel she can dig much deeper.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> Your insult riddled post should be deleted but I would actually like you to answer a few questions. You and so many others seem to forget that Canada and the US aren't the major emissions issue so perhaps you'd like to take the opportunity to explain how insulting North Americans is addressing emissions in other countries and how you feel that should be addressed? Shall we reduce our emissions to 0 while watching industry migrate to those unregulated countries?
> 
> Do you have some plan to put the men and women that will be put out of work by abrupt policy change and have you considered the implications for the agricultural industry? We were told that our carbon tax would have no impact on farmers but according to my neighbours, carbon tax has caused their parts to increase 20%, fertilizer costs to skyrocket and commercial trucking has no exemption so the cost of getting their grain shipped has increased greatly.
> 
> Can we afford to sacrifice our agricultural industry and can low income families afford another significant increase in groceries? The woman I saw crying at the grocery store the other day doesn't seem to feel she can dig much deeper.


First thanks for a very thoughtful reply, to an undeserving post.

Second, I ask that you don't delete any post if you can see you way to not. I trust your judgement, and actions.

I'd like to keep any posts here so we can see the different reactions as this subject is explored.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Green Climate Fund is a fund established within the framework of the UNFCCC as an operating entity of the Financial Mechanism to assist developing countries in adaptation and mitigation practices to counter climate change. The GCF is based in Incheon, South Korea. It is governed by a Board of 24 members and supported by a Secretariat. The objective of the Green Climate Fund is to "support projects, programmes, policies and other activities in developing country Parties using thematic funding

*Which countries have pledged the most?*
US - $3bn (£2.3bn)

Japan - $1.5bn (£1.2bn)

UK - $1.2bn (£931m)

France - $1bn (£776m)

Germany - $1bn (£776m)
.
.
.
Canada - $300 mn


Here is the full list - BTW - China, Russia and India are not on it.
https://www.greenclimate.fund/docum...able.pdf/96ea94f9-d8f7-1ce1-198c-3f7fe1f47c30


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> And when reporters say that oil companies have blocked climate policy with no proof whatsoever, and so called people that are scientifically motivated repeat it verbatim with no proof or scientific basis I wonder why too.
> 
> So many things get repeated back and forth. From both sides. None of it is ever proven but both sides believe it whole hog. All we have been doing is fighting for 20+ years and I guess we will continue to for the next 20.
> 
> ...


 we know we have the best politicians money can buy.
Oil companies spending millions on lobbyist may be in contact with those politicians.
I can't help but wonder what bills they want blocked.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> we know we have the best politicians money can buy.
> Oil companies spending millions on lobbyist may be in contact with those politicians.
> I can't help but wonder what bills they want blocked.


Considering how much money we give the UN program for climate change, the oil companies are doing a terrible job stopping anything.


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> we know we have the best politicians money can buy.
> Oil companies spending millions on lobbyist may be in contact with those politicians.
> I can't help but wonder what bills they want blocked.


Oil spends just a little more than the education lobby. I think the education lobby does more harm.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> I wish it was that simple @mreynolds
> 
> Through the UN, developed nations, like the US, are asked to fund developing nations. From the UN website.
> On the international support being sought for NAMAs, (nationally appropriate mitigation action) the document reports a cumulative total of USD 31.5 billion in international support sought by all NAMA entries for implementing or preparing NAMAs. Financial support continued to make up the greatest share of international support sought (USD 29.5 billion), followed by technological support (USD 1.7 billion) and capacity-building support (USD 0.21 billion).
> ...


I get that. One reason I am very much against it. That money has never gone where it needs to go but they just keep asking for more.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> we know we have the best politicians money can buy.
> Oil companies spending millions on lobbyist may be in contact with those politicians.
> I can't help but wonder what bills they want blocked.


So when they actually do block something (worthwhile) let's get mad at them then. Until then we are getting riled up for no reason.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Considering how much money we give the UN program for climate change, the oil companies are doing a terrible job stopping anything.


Where can I find that information?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Where can I find that information?


I provided the links earlier


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> So when they actually do block something (worthwhile) let's get mad at them then. Until then we are getting riled up for no reason.


Oil companies cannot block any bill directly.
They do it by buying politicians votes.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> Oil companies cannot block any bill directly.
> They do it by buying politicians votes.


I understand that. What have they paid to block that we need to be up in arms about? Until we know it's just speculation.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> I understand that. What have they paid to block that we need to be up in arms about? Until we know it's just speculation.


We would need to follow the money.
That would bore me to tears. I'll leave it to those that have the job.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

We have a few that are quick to sling insults and rhetoric but the problem I have is that nobody seems to offer much in the way of solutions. 

I'd love to hear some realistic solutions that isn't going to destroy global economics. Perhaps my fellow Canadian can explain to me how he feels Arab oil & gas is cleaner and aligns with Canada's carbon emissions targets as well as some opinion on the carbon footprint of those tankers. 

Are we to assume those provinces dumping their raw sewage into lakes and rivers are interested in protecting their environment? I'd think that might be one of the first things and environmentally concerned person would want to takle. 

Please offer some credible solutions, lest you sound like Gore, Greta and DiCaprio.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I provided the links earlier


Thank you.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> We would need to follow the money.
> That would bore me to tears. I'll leave it to those that have the job.


So those that already have that job haven't told us what they have blocked and what they haven't. So as far as we know, they haven't blocked anything worthwhile if anything at all. 

So why are we mad?


There is other money to follow besides just the one's we dislike. This was a scam from the get go and he should have been put in prison like Bernie Madoff. He is the commander in chief of the global warming scene. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryb...-on-anti-carbon-investment-hype/#e9cbc8532dc9

Gore and Blood, the former chief of Goldman Sachs Asset Management (GSAM), co-founded London-based GIM in 2004. Between 2008 and 2011 the company had raised profits of nearly $218 million from institutions and wealthy investors.​


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

wr said:


> Please offer some credible solutions,


We as a nation should stop breeding.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SRSLADE said:


> We as a nation should stop breeding.


I didn't realize there was an overpopulation problem in the Western Hemisphere. And if a certain segment of the population would at least practice at breeding, they probably wouldn't be so uptight and angry.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama...cq6BXcTWal4jZj1kXQOYGJFfA1gw5CWrUxdtiJaeXksdM
"Stossel noted how over the years he’d covered so many scares that had turned out not to be what people claimed, that in fact, we’re living longer than ever.

Yet the alarmists like Greta Thunberg say “entire ecosystems are collapsing” and we are on the brink of “mass extinction.” Politicians like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and former Vice President Joe Biden proclaim, “We have 12 years years left.”

The scientists took on that myth. “Please, let’s have a discussion!” begged astrophysicist Willie Soon.

Pat Michaels, former president of the American Association of State Climatologists, dissected the 12 year/extinction claim. “*It’s warmed up around one degree Celsius since 1900*, and life expectancy doubled, yet that temperature ticks up another half a degree and the entire system crashes? That’s the most absurd belief.” "


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Hiro said:


> I didn't realize there was an overpopulation problem in the Western Hemisphere. And if a certain segment of the population would at least practice at breeding, they probably wouldn't be so uptight and angry.


I didn't mean to set you off.
I was just making a suggestion on how to cut global warming.
Maybe a little too tongue in cheek.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SRSLADE said:


> I didn't mean to set you off.
> I was just making a suggestion on how to cut global warming.
> Maybe a little too tongue in cheek.


I am uncertain what in my response led you to believe that I was was set off. I am also uncertain why you are unfamiliar that the term "global warming" is out of vogue with the environmentalist lunatics. I also doubt very seriously that you really responded to the query that you did as you did was meant as a "credible response" innocently...but carry on in such manner as you are capable.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wr said:


> We have a few that are quick to sling insults and rhetoric but the problem I have is that nobody seems to offer much in the way of solutions.
> 
> I'd love to hear some realistic solutions that isn't going to destroy global economics. Perhaps my fellow Canadian can explain to me how he feels Arab oil & gas is cleaner and aligns with Canada's carbon emissions targets as well as some opinion on the carbon footprint of those tankers.
> 
> ...





Bearfootfarm said:


> https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama...cq6BXcTWal4jZj1kXQOYGJFfA1gw5CWrUxdtiJaeXksdM
> "Stossel noted how over the years he’d covered so many scares that had turned out not to be what people claimed, that in fact, we’re living longer than ever.
> 
> Yet the alarmists like Greta Thunberg say “entire ecosystems are collapsing” and we are on the brink of “mass extinction.” Politicians like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) and former Vice President Joe Biden proclaim, “We have 12 years years left.”
> ...


That's like driving from Arkansas to Texas and taking 120 years to get there.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SRSLADE said:


> I didn't mean to set you off.
> I was just making a suggestion on how to cut global warming.
> Maybe a little too tongue in cheek.


LOL, at least you have the _huevos_ to respond to a question. Many others just think we are attacking them with valid questions asked of them. Others think we think the sky is falling when we ask a reasonable question. 

And they will think the same thing tomorrow and that's why nothing gets done.

*But it will still be my fault anyway.* 

Thank you for keeping the dialogue going. This is important for our kids future.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

SRSLADE said:


> We as a nation should stop breeding.


Are you thinking zero children or perhaps a one child limit and will that save the planet as long as other countries reproduce in higher numbers? 

The problem with resolving climate change that I find so frustrating is that we need to put some thought into our solutions. 

Canadians currently pay carbon tax all fossil fuel related products, which has put heating costs in my province to the point where low and fixed income families simply have to chose between groceries or heat. A friend just showed me her heating bill for last month, on a 2 bedroom apartment and with the feel good carbon tax, it was just over $400.

Most Canadians feel pretty good about contributing to the climate change cause but most forget that our government collects carbon tax from us and returns a great deal of it to low income families and only a moderate portion of the money collected is actually used for green initiatives. 

Instead of tripping over silly feel good laws and taxes, I would suggest that we can't clean up the planet if other countries are not only refusing to participate but increasing their emissions. 

Every manufacturer that leaves our countries, has less environmental accountability. 

Alberta has been closed for business for some time because the rest of the world has decided we sell dirty oil, regardless of the fact that our enviromental regulations are the most stringent in the world. Most of Canada feels they've done well to put their own countrymen out of work, yet seem to look the other way when those Arab tankers show up. 

Certainly, we need to reduce our dependency on fossil fuels but we need solutions in place now if we're going to insist people change their lifestyle now.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wr said:


> Are you thinking zero children or perhaps a one child limit and will that save the planet as long as other countries reproduce in higher numbers?
> 
> The problem with resolving climate change that I find so frustrating is that we need to put some thought into our solutions.
> 
> ...


I would bet that carbon tax doesn't do much good either. It's a way to gather the money and put it in a few hands. Then they will rail about the 1%ers _*that are not them*_ and get you to pay more. I hope you have leadership in the future that stops that. 

I have seen the scams in the CC's here in the lower 48. It's why I am not in the business anymore. But soon, if the screamers get their way we will get out own carbon tax and the architects of that bill will get rich. Like Al Gore did. 

_So many sheep. _

_Not enough carnivores. 
_
mreynolds November 2019


----------



## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

After we come up with a climate policy lets straighten out the Sun.

I want more daylight in the winter.

Lets pass a law and fix that.

Lets also outlaw all vegitarians.

People who eat nothing but vegetables fart a lot.

And farts lead to global warming.

Vegans are killing our children!!!!

Plant chewing bastards!


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

JJ it is obvious from reading your post that you hate teenage girls, anyone with Autism, Aspergers or a publicly disclosed disability, and possess a seething disgust of women and those who attempt to enlighten you who are from other countries.
Because you have shown a blatant intolerance for all who are not white, rich, entitled and poisoned by conservatism, your house will be burned, all personal assets seized and reappropriated, your family disbanded and sent for reeducation.
You will be fired from your job, prohibited from voting, owning firearms, any public assistance, and your face and name will be posted on billboards across the country noting you as a hater and destroyer of all things good.
It is doubtful that you will ever show an attitude of inclusivity; that is just who your type is, so consider yourself shunned and an untouchable for good.
Now, I can see from my new Bell & Ross it is time to catch my flight to Madrid for the UN Climate Change Conference.
Gawd, Air Brio really needs to get on board with TSA prescreen.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> We as a nation should stop breeding.


You are always so quick to tell others what to do.

Maybe you did not have kids, great. Stick to what YOU can do. Don't tell me what to do.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> JJ it is obvious from reading your post that you hate teenage girls, anyone with Autism, Aspergers or a publicly disclosed disability, and possess a seething disgust of women and those who attempt to enlighten you who are from other countries.
> Because you have shown a blatant intolerance for all who are not white, rich, entitled and poisoned by conservatism, your house will be burned, all personal assets seized and reappropriated, your family disbanded and sent for reeducation.
> You will be fired from your job, prohibited from voting, owning firearms, any public assistance, and your face and name will be posted on billboards across the country noting you as a hater and destroyer of all things good.
> It is doubtful that you will ever show an attitude of inclusivity; that is just who your type is, so consider yourself shunned and an untouchable for good.
> ...


Ah, so you watched my video on China.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> I didn't mean to set you off.
> I was just making a suggestion on how to cut global warming.
> Maybe a little too tongue in cheek.


Tongue in cheek is one appendage away from foot in mouth


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

HDRider said:


> You are always so quick to tell others what to do.
> 
> Maybe you did not have kids, great. Stick to what YOU can do. Don't tell me what to do.


Liberals should volunteer to be guinea pigs, just to see if it works.
Anything less than a 50 years experiment is not acceptable.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> You are always so quick to tell others what to do.
> 
> Maybe you did not have kids, great. Stick to what YOU can do. Don't tell me what to do.


Have you had your blood pressure checked?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Have you had your blood pressure checked?


You are an aneurysm machine.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

When we hold out as being different than this or that maybe we are just odd.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> When we hold out as being different than this or that maybe we are just odd.


Some make every effort at being odd, some it comes very natural. 

I am not sure if being contrary is inherit or learned. I do know someone can sharpen a God given talent to a razor's edge.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> Some make every effort at being odd, some it comes very natural.
> 
> I am not sure if being contrary is inherit or learned. I do know someone can sharpen a God given talent to a razor's edge.


I was called a horses ass, or something similar, by a co-worker many years ago.
I replied that my mother told me early in life, that whatever I chose to be, be good at it!


----------



## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

The climate has been changing since time began. It only began to be an issue when man grew so arrogant that he presumed he could change it

The first rule of life for man is ADAPT to environment. If climate changes, change with it.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Oxankle said:


> The climate has been changing since time began. It only began to be an issue when man grew so arrogant that he presumed he could change it
> 
> The first rule of life for man is ADAPT to environment. If climate changes, change with it.


Yup, it'll be tough, but I think I can still reach over and bump the thermostat up or down a notch and survive.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Better keep an extra in the junk drawer.
You never want to be one Honeywell away from extinction.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> I would bet that carbon tax doesn't do much good either. It's a way to gather the money and put it in a few hands. Then they will rail about the 1%ers _*that are not them*_ and get you to pay more. I hope you have leadership in the future that stops that.
> 
> I have seen the scams in the CC's here in the lower 48. It's why I am not in the business anymore. But soon, if the screamers get their way we will get out own carbon tax and the architects of that bill will get rich. Like Al Gore did.
> 
> ...


Like any tax collected, there is no accountability. A fairly substantial amount seems to be returned to low income individuals. 

The problem I have with collecting from all and giving back to some is that the manner of collection is disproportionate to those who receive refunds. Low income individuals are not inclined to own cars and tend to use public transportation and low income rentals usually have utilities included. 

There's something pretty harsh about cutting a cheque for a load of diesel that included almost $600 in carbon tax and listening to the waitress in town (who has no car) boast that her annual carbon tax refund is going to be pretty close to $1,000.00.

I find the whole thing frustrating because she seems to make enough to buy disposable diapers, eat takeout and buy prepackaged food, has a drawer full of Iphones, owns several televisions and yet she's quick to remind us oldsters that we polluted the planet. 

We own one older television, my Iphone won't be replaced until it dies, my grocery garbage (packages & wrappers) doesn't fill a garbage bag in a month, I can't remember the last time we had takeout and I refuse to walk down the frozen entree aisle in the grocery store. 

Eitherw way, we're all in it for the long haul and we all suffer a bit to make things better or we need to look at other options.

One of my personal pet peeves is finding Tim Horton's cups and wrappers on my road and in our ditches and I feel that maybe it's time to look at charging customers extra for their paper cups.


----------



## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

No point at all...
They just can't get past the fact Greta has Asperger's.

Good thing the younger folks got over the old, grouchy, lazy, ignorance, 
Her crowd is going to be paying all the 'Entitlements' this bunch complains about so much...


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

JeepHammer said:


> No point at all...
> They just can't get past the fact Greta has Asperger's.
> 
> Good thing the younger folks got over the old, grouchy, lazy, ignorance,
> Her crowd is going to be paying all the 'Entitlements' this bunch complains about so much...


We quit talking about Greta days ago on here. But keep up the topic and blame it on everyone else.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

JeepHammer said:


> No point at all...
> They just can't get past the fact Greta has Asperger's.
> 
> Good thing the younger folks got over the old, grouchy, lazy, ignorance,
> Her crowd is going to be paying all the 'Entitlements' this bunch complains about so much...


I've been hoping you'd offer some constructive solutions but I see you have none to offer either.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> No point at all...
> They just can't get past the fact *Greta has Asperger's*.


That doesn't change anything about her situation.
It makes it more sad that others would take advantage of her.



JeepHammer said:


> Good thing the younger folks got over the old, grouchy, lazy, ignorance,


OK Boomer.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ziptie said:


> My 8th grader is having to write a persuasive paper on how "global warming is affecting the world". It has to be backed up by facts, so she is quoting sources such as NASA, CNN, and some other off the wall site. So far the teacher loves it.


CNN ain't exactly my "go to" source for facts.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

GTX63 said:


> JJ it is obvious from reading your post that you hate teenage girls, anyone with Autism, Aspergers or a publicly disclosed disability, and possess a seething disgust of women and those who attempt to enlighten you who are from other countries.
> Because you have shown a blatant intolerance for all who are not white, rich, entitled and poisoned by conservatism, your house will be burned, all personal assets seized and reappropriated, your family disbanded and sent for reeducation.
> You will be fired from your job, prohibited from voting, owning firearms, any public assistance, and your face and name will be posted on billboards across the country noting you as a hater and destroyer of all things good.
> It is doubtful that you will ever show an attitude of inclusivity; that is just who your type is, so consider yourself shunned and an untouchable for good.
> ...



Ain't nothing I ain't been through before.

You forgot me being branded as a racist and homophobe.

It's true, nothing worse than a gay Eskimo in my book.

Sure, like they snuggle up to you to "stay warm".

Who are they kidding?


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

wr said:


> I've been hoping you'd offer some constructive solutions but I see you have none to offer either.


There is no 'Constructive Solution' to this issue, it's entirely irrational bigotry based.

It's attacking a female,
It's attacking a child,
It's attacking free speech,
It's attacking science,
It's attacking common sense,
It's attacking someone with aspergers,
This list goes on...

By definition, you can't have a debate with anyone that's irrational.
People that parrot the 'Opinion' GIVEN them by the alt.right, 
And every attack here is directly from the alt.right forums,
Is fear based or bigotry and irrational.

*IF* someone were to attack _THEIR_ child in this manner they would blow their top!
If anyone wanted to throttle their speech like they want to her's they would blow their top.
They don't dare speak this crap in open public for fear of instant correction...
They hide out here, snipe from behind anonymous user names.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> They don't dare speak this crap in open public for fear of instant correction...


There you go insinuating violence again.



> By definition, you can't have a debate with *anyone that's irrational*.


It's always the *other* folks, huh? 



JeepHammer said:


> This list goes on...


As do you,.
On and on and on and on....


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

JeepHammer said:


> They hide out here, snipe from behind anonymous user names.


So are we to believe that Jeephammer is your real name? 
Because it kinda looks like you’re sniping from behind an anonymous user name.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

HDRider said:


> You have to marvel at the psychology of using poor Greta. Using her as the front man is brilliant.
> 
> I put a thread out there quoting a guy, who, by his biography, appears eminently qualified on the subject, that tries to calm the waters. I don't think ONE PERSON discussed the article.
> 
> ...


Who what is Greta.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

JeepHammer said:


> There is no 'Constructive Solution' to this issue, it's entirely irrational bigotry based.
> 
> It's attacking a female,
> It's attacking a child,
> ...


Keep digging!


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

JeepHammer said:


> There is no 'Constructive Solution' to this issue, it's entirely irrational bigotry based.
> 
> It's attacking a female,
> It's attacking a child,
> ...


Still waiting on a rational response that doesn't involve threats of violence, Trump nuking a storm, misquotes from the Bible or showing up in a 1000 HP electric scooter.
If I counted the # of posts mentioning Greta's sex, impairments or age there would only be, lets see...your and Steves, and my post mentioning it.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

JeepHammer said:


> There is no 'Constructive Solution' to this issue, it's entirely irrational bigotry based.
> 
> It's attacking a female,
> It's attacking a child,
> ...


Apparently you missed my previous comments. 

I asked for discussion on viable solutions on climate change rather than bashing individuals. 

Rather than offer discussion as requested, you’ve offered nothing in the way of constructive suggestions and a strong desire to continue a pointless argument.


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