# LGD - Tie the dead chicken around her neck?



## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

Has anyone had any luck with this training method? I posted last week about our immature 6 month old GP dog, who has been chasing chickens and ducks, and mauling lambs (not having injured anyone to date). Well, this morning, she killed the chicken and appeared to be eating it.

I know I've read about people tying the dead bird around the dog's neck. Did it work for you? How long do you leave it there? (it's pretty darn disgusting, I have to say....)

Any other suggestions that have worked for you? Everyone told us to be patient with her and that she will outgrow this, but she needs some chicken/duck training. 

Thanks in advance.
jodi


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## mylala (Jun 3, 2008)

I have been told that a dog has to be corrected within one second of what they were doing or they do not know that (what you are correcting them for) is what they did wrong. For example your dog gets in your trash...you go outside and trash is ripped open, and you see it...you yell dogs name, he start to come to you and you scold him or discipline him..he may very well think he is being scolded for coming to you, and not the trash he tore up. I have not had the problem you are speaking of nor have tried the tied to the neck thing, but to me it does not seem that it would train a dog.


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## BetsyK in Mich (May 14, 2002)

My dad did this years ago with a young border collie who would not leave the chickens alone finally killing one. The dog wore it for a good week, in the dead of summer, not pleasant but the dog never went near the chickens again. It did work that time. All dogs have different temperments/personalities so it will probably depend on the dog too. A am a believer in shock collars after it cured my Aussie from chasing cars, that may be a less smelly way to go, cost me $130 and worth every penny.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

I don't see how it could work and suspect that for those that think it has worked for them, there was actually a something different that caused the change.

Think about it... most dogs are never happier than when they can go out, find something dead and rotting and eat it and/or roll in it. Not to mention how many dogs eat poo!


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

I'm a big believer in shock collars, too. We used one on our American Bulldog to stop fence jumping years ago - only had to zap him twice - and he never jumped that particular fence again. 
We have the opportunity to borrow a shock collar this week, but dh wanted to try the bird around the neck first to see if it would work.
She knew she was wrong. When I approached her and yelled her name, she came to me slinking along the ground, eventually lying down as I approached (about 15 feet away from the chicken.) I verbally reprimanded her and threw her on the ground, growling 'NO' in a loud and consistent voice. I then dragged her to her kennel and locked her up. So, she did get a very immediate consequence. I just don't think it's enough. 
I also think that she is smart enough, though, to know that the bird around her neck is completely related to her killing incident an hour ago.


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## fostina1 (Feb 19, 2009)

i had to beat my pit with a dead chicken to get it to stop. but it knows better now and wont even look at them.


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## pourfolkes (Jul 1, 2005)

You will all think I am nuts, but here goes. A good friend as well as a breeder of these dogs told me about this method and even showed me. I thought she was nuts too, but it worked for me.

Grab up the chicken, or what is left of it, hug it to you, run around after the dog, sounding really upset, rather than mad and ask, "what did you do? Oh my, what did you do?" almost like you are going to cry.

It took a few times, but now she lets the chickens sleep right next to her if they want to.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

pourfolkes said:


> You will all think I am nuts, but here goes. A good friend as well as a breeder of these dogs told me about this method and even showed me. I thought she was nuts too, but it worked for me.
> 
> Grab up the chicken, or what is left of it, hug it to you, run around after the dog, sounding really upset, rather than mad and ask, "what did you do? Oh my, what did you do?" almost like you are going to cry.
> 
> It took a few times, but now she lets the chickens sleep right next to her if they want to.


no, no... you're right...




... I DO think you're nuts. 

R


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2009)

We've did that in my family forever. I had a dog that killed chickens, gave him the chicken necklace. Even now, 7 years afterwards, he still won't even snap at a baby chick that tries to get into his food. He will attack another dog getting his food tho. The secret is tie it up under his neck where he can't reach it. And we have always left it on for about a week.


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## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

Hawkfamily said:


> She knew she was wrong. When I approached her and yelled her name, she came to me slinking along the ground, eventually lying down as I approached (about 15 feet away from the chicken.) I verbally reprimanded her and threw her on the ground, growling 'NO' in a loud and consistent voice. I then dragged her to her kennel and locked her up. So, she did get a very immediate consequence. I just don't think it's enough.


I wouldn't be so sure she knew she was wrong. I will assume that like most people you were visibly upset seeing what she had done/was doing and the pup probably picked up on that and your tone of voice. Hopefully she learned the right lesson-"don't kill chickens" and not the wrong lesson-"don't get caught with a dead chicken."

To my thinking, an immediate consequence is catching her in the act of killing the chicken. Correcting her while eating the dead chicken does not equate to correcting her for *killing* said chicken, just eating it. Just like if you are potty training a pup, you need to correct it when it starts thinking about going potty or when it has just started. It doesn't do any good to holler at the pup after it's finished, even if it's only been a few seconds.


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

There was a fine line between 'killing' the chicken and 'eating' the chicken. In fact, the chicken was still slightly alive when I approached it, twitching here and there.
We're talking semantics here.....
I caught her in the act of killing/eating it. It was the same act.

I kinda like the idea of running after her sounding upset with the chicken actually. I think that might work, particularly when her instinct is to care for the animals.
I don't think you're crazy.


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## JIL (Aug 25, 2007)

hanging the dead chicken around the neck seems like it would be a treat for the dog. I have taken the dead chicken and beat my dog with it. But still if i happen to leave in a hurry and the chickens are out free ranging then sure enough when I get home all dogs are out of sight hiding from me because they know they have done wrong and killed another one. If they haven't killed when I get home they are all at the truck to greet me. So when I don't get greeted i go looking to see what happened and sure enough there it is. They know but how to break them i haven't figured it out. when i'm home the chicks free range all day with the dogs out and roaming themselves no dead chickens but as soon as I leave..... I may try to have my son hide and we'll get a shock collar and everytime they go near a chicken it will shock them and hopefully they will think it is the chicken that is shocking them? let me know what ya'll get figured out to stop them. I may try the running after them upset and crying hey if they are smart enough to know I'm not home to do it maybe. thanks JIL


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## Mare Owner (Feb 20, 2008)

Hanging the dead chicken around the neck didn't work for my chicken killing dog. She moped around for a few hours and then ate it.


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

I think it's important that the dog not be able to reach/mouth the chicken at all while it's hanging there. She's had her 'chicken necklace' on for about 7 hours now. It is hanging just below her neck and she can't reach it at all. She doesn't seem too bothered by it - is still following the sheep and lambs into various fields and barns, doing the job she is supposed to do.


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

It always worked for my Daddy. If we had a chicken killing dog and he caught it in the act he would tie the chicken around it's neck until it rotted and fell off. Maybe the fact that we didn't want to pet or be around the dog was part of the reason it worked, but it did work every time!


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

LOL - yeah, I was just out there and have to admit that I stayed clear of her. She's going to miss her little bit of time with me twice a day when I go out to feed her, that's for sure. There'll be no loving from me this week. I'm sure that deprivation IS part of what makes it successful. 
I feel the need to call our two neighbours and warn them about it - it looks pretty gross and is going to get grosser over the next few days.... ick.


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## KimM (Jun 17, 2005)

Hawkfamily said:


> There was a fine line between 'killing' the chicken and 'eating' the chicken. In fact, the chicken was still slightly alive when I approached it, twitching here and there.
> We're talking semantics here.....
> I caught her in the act of killing/eating it. It was the same act.
> 
> <snip>.


You're correct in that, to the dog, killing and eating it is a similar act, however, GoldenMom is right on here. The time to reprimand the dog was right when she began chasing the bird, before or right as she actually caught it. Another big mistake is to put the dog in her kennel as punishment as she'll start associating her kennel with "something" bad but she'll have no clue as to what. The shock collar is a good idea from a distance if you can watch her and catch her every single time she shows more than a casual interest in the poultry, until she wants nothing more to do with them. Other wise, don't let her have the opportunity to get to the birds unless you're right there to intervene immediately and every time.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Get the shock collar and bury the chicken


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## Dodgegal79 (Aug 29, 2008)

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i had to beat my pit with a dead chicken to get it to stop. but it knows better now and wont even look at them._

I did this with my dog too and she is scared of chickens now. Worked great.


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

tying a chicken around a dogs neck is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of doing to get a dog to stop killing chickens!

where is the logic?

sure go ahead.. tie one on... you will feel really dumb when the dog lays down and dines! like a candy necklace for kids!

this is a livestock guardian dog!!!! not a herding dog (border collie, collie, rotty, german shepherd), it is not a reteriver, not a pointer, or a whole host of other high pray drive dogs. 

LGD's are low pray drive!!! what are you doing letting you puppy run with livestock with out supervision? pen the dog in a run next to the livestock, pen the dog in the center of the paddock or put said pup with some aggressive livestock but plenty of room for her to get away.

this may help http://www.anatoliandog.org/poultry.htm

you are asking a 6 month old puppy to behave line an adult.. like leaving an 8 year old child alone with a new born and expecting the child to know what to do in an emergency.

It takes awhile for a puppy to understand that they are to protect it not play with it!

your first dog/pup, you have to be the alpha dog. you need to stay on top of the pups behavior... expect to loose a few more before she figures out she is to protect it not eat it!

tying a dead anything around your dogs neck... don't, you are just asking the dog to kill again, after all it is a reward.. dinner on a string!

a little trick used and sometimes it works... spray livestock with bitter apple.

shock collars are great tools but the dog can't see you ... shock collars are even better when you put the collars on the kids, the remotes in a bag and have them reach in and grab one! well, never mind.


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## Curtis B (Aug 15, 2008)

I have used the beat with the dead bird method, but I caught the dog in the act and the repremed was instant. I have never had the problem since even when introducing different kinds of "feathered friends" to the "family".


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

homesteadforty said:


> I don't see how it could work and suspect that for those that think it has worked for them, there was actually a something different that caused the change.
> 
> Think about it... most dogs are never happier than when they can go out, find something dead and rotting and eat it and/or roll in it. Not to mention how many dogs eat poo!


And Sometimes No.
I had an Uncle that tried it with a shepherd dog that started killing chickens.
So he tied a dead chicken on it's neck. That dog promptly went around the barn and ate the chicken.
A day or two later, Uncle caught that dog eating on another chicken it'd killed. So he scolded it severely and tied the chicken on it's neck again.
Same thing, that dog went around the barn, out of sight, (he thought), and ate the chicken.

So then, Uncle did a cruel thing. He went in the house and got the 16ga. loaded with # 8's. He blasted that dog with a load of #8's, from off aways, while it was still eating chicken. It did not kill the dog, but he sure went off yelping. He came back later in the day, dragging the remains of that chicken on his neck

You know, that shepherd never touched another chicken. He wouldn't go near them.
But....It's a sad, cruel story. And, it'd get you arrested today, if anyone knew.


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## turtlehead (Jul 22, 2005)

Hawkfamily said:


> She knew she was wrong. When I approached her and yelled her name, she came to me slinking along the ground,


She probably understood that the tone of your voice and possibly your body language as you approached her meant that she was in trouble. You are lucky she came slinking toward you, she is a good dog to come when you call her name, even though she recognizes you are upset about something. 



> I verbally reprimanded her and threw her on the ground, growling 'NO' in a loud and consistent voice. I then dragged her to her kennel and locked her up. So, she did get a very immediate consequence.


Unfortunately, she got an immediate consequence for coming when called. Not for killing the chicken.

Dogs have to be reprimanded *in the act*. The moment she started slinking toward you, she was engaged in an act different from killing/eating the chicken. In her mind, she was punished for coming when called.

I've never tried tying the chicken on their neck but it wont' hurt.
We've had good luck with shock collars.


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## Maria (Apr 24, 2003)

My father broke a dog once of killing chickens by putting him in a burlap bag with the chicken he'd killed and hung the bag from the clothesline for a day. The dog never bothered the chickens again. Needless to say, this was a small dog-- a daschund cross-- but still, it worked.


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## Cheryl aka JM (Aug 7, 2007)

I've got two LGD dogs~ a 1 year old great pry and a 9 month old Anatolian. MY learning how to teach them seems to be a full time job! I tried the tying the dead chicken (it was actually a guinea) to the great pry~ and it seemed to work for a while. Or probably more like my obvious disapproval every time I set eyes on him with my dead guinea tied to his neck seemed to work. But then the younger Anatolian took to chasing chickens and I caught the great pyr having a great time chasing with her! I bought shock collars~ and those work..........WHEN I'm looking AND when I'm in RANGE (I can see the dog messing up from way further away than the collar will shock!) I was having fits trying to figure it out..............

And I think I STUMBLED on the answer. I had set up two 10X10 dog kennels so I could separate the dogs and feed them without the goats eating all their food. Every morning I put the dogs in the feeding stations~ let them eat.......then let them out and watched like a hawk while getting NOTHING else done for if the dogs were messing up. Same deal in the evening~ but when I let the dogs out after evening feeding the chickens are all in the barns/coops and only the goats are still out. Then I started getting lazy......not letting the dogs out of the feeding stations right after morning meal..........and I noticed. They sleep most of the day away anyway. Then at night the run all night with the goats and get plenty of play while guarding the goats and keeping predators from getting into the barns/coops. So~ I started leaving them IN the feeding stations most of the day and only taking them out for supervised interaction time with poultry while wearing the shock collars. This seems to be working~ neither dog has chased a chicken in a couple months now~ yesterday I noticed several young chicks pop through the fence into the Anatolians feed station and chow down on her breakfast. She just watched them with no reaction to the very fast moving chicks she used to be fascinated by. As the dogs get older (they are both still young) I'm hoping I'll be able to leave them unsupervised with the poultry. But even if I have to stick with the routine we have now~ the dogs are getting plenty of running time at night~ they are guarding the goats and the poultry at night~ their presence puts off day time predators even from their kennels~ and I don't have to feel bad about hating my dogs for killing my poultry!


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

So, this has obviously stirred up some difference of opinion. And some with fairly strong ones at that. Somehow I feel the need to pop back in and state that I'm not an idiot; that I actually have a very good grasp on behaviour modification and training. 
A few of you were real good at telling me what I did totally wrong and how NOT to train a dog, but I saw few other suggestions of how to handle the situation from those same individuals. 
Also, I need you to know that I don't expect her to act like a mature dog when she's only a puppy; I understand and expect that she's getting into mischief. My expectations for her aren't outrageous. I DO want to get ahold of this chicken/duck issue and nip it in the bud.
And... I am in full support of the shock collar and am trying to borrow one this week. I am fully aware that the dog can't see you when using it. (duhhhh. this is the stuff that insults me). We have the perfect house for it - a Lindal cedar home that is all windows looking straight out over the fields. I would be able to sit in the comfort of my own home and zap her as necessary.
An update: she is still wearing the chicken. It has been 24 hours now. And she hasn't managed to eat it yet. 
And, finally, thanks to Rose and others who are not making me feel like a loser, but are actually sharing their own experience with this method.
jodi
p.s. admittedly, a bit PMS'y here....just a warning.


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

Cheryl, this is great. Thanks for the detailed response!


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

westbrook said:


> tying a chicken around a dogs neck is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of doing to get a dog to stop killing chickens!
> 
> where is the logic?
> 
> ...


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

PS Cesar Milan had an episode about curing the chicken chasing/killing with a labrador. He didn't tie the dead chicken around the neck either.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

It worked for my FiLs german shepard (a farm dog), he left it there for 3 or 4 days.


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## Ravenlost (Jul 20, 2004)

rose2005 said:


> There is a way to tie that chicken so that the dog cannot eat it.


EXACTLY!

And by the way, my Daddy was NOT a stupid man. :grump:


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

_Where is the logic?_

I guess part of the logic for me is that 98% of the people who have actually tried this (and correctly tied the chicken around the neck) swear that it works. The only ones saying that it won't work are those who have never tried it. 
There's the logic right there. It's worth a shot.


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

a german shephard is NOT in the same class as Great Pyr.

A GSD is a herding dog, blind obedience. A GP is a Livestock Guardian Dog, they think and draw upon past life experiences before they act.

True story...

The County Sheriffs Department looked at using LGD's for police dogs because they are very smart.

They worked a dog with the GDS in training. Everything was going great until it was time to get the dogs to attack.

The handler sent a GSD out to attack the 'bad guy' (dressed up in protective gear). the GSD ran after the man and took him down.. the dog was so please with himself.. got the man and held in in place until the handler called him off.

the handler now sends the LGD out after the 'bad guy', the LGD starts the chase, barking and growling. The LGD does the usual charging and posturing. The 'bad guy' continues to run and the LGD now stops, growling and barking. When the 'bad guy' is out of site the dog turns around and comes back to the handler all proud of himself... as if to say 'see he's gone, I did a good job'

Needless to say, that was the end of the project. 

GSD's have an extremely high pray drive. they are in the herding class. LGD's have a very low pray drive which what makes them work so well with livestock. they are in the working class.

this is about Livestock Guarding Dogs and while a dog is a dog to some extent.. a livestock guarding dog is to a german shepherd dog is like a german shepherd dog is to a Labrador... two different dogs, two different classes, two different jobs, two different motivations.

what works for other dogs doesn't necessarily work on a LGD.


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

LOL - love the story about the GP! I can totally see that.
I do appreciate what you're saying here about various breeds of dogs and their various motivations, Westbrook.
(I promise to be the first one to admit that it didn't work next week, if, in fact, it doesn't work.)


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Better to use the electric chicken method. I tie the (dead) chicken to a piece of wire and suspend it on a flexible stick off of the hot fence line. Looks like a live chicken hopping around. Dog touches it. Learns not to touch chickens. Variations. Also see this post about training Killer Kita - she turned into one of our best ever LGDs:

[ame]http://www.google.com/search?&q=site%3Asugarmtnfarm.com+killer+kita[/ame]

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/
http://HollyGraphicArt.com/
http://NoNAIS.org


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## mylala (Jun 3, 2008)

Hawkfamily said:


> LOL - love the story about the GP! I can totally see that.
> I do appreciate what you're saying here about various breeds of dogs and their various motivations, Westbrook.
> (I promise to be the first one to admit that it didn't work next week, if, in fact, it doesn't work.)


In order to know that it is the chicken tied around the neck that worked you will have to implement no other forms of training or discipline during this time. Simply chicken tied around neck, and no other correction at all. Good luck.


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## Caitedid (Jun 2, 2004)

I met a woman at a farm conference who was talking about training her farm collie to rat. I guess the dog had seen rats in with the chickens and had just figured that they were funny looking chickens, and thus not to be messed with. So one day she finds a rat that one of the cats had killed, tied it to her belt with a 10' hunk of bailer twine, and sets off running across the yard screaming and hollering in "terror" that this rat is chasing her. She now has the best ratter in the county. But here we just figured out that the Pyr/BC pup is "herding" shoes, not chewing them.


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

mylala said:


> In order to know that it is the chicken tied around the neck that worked you will have to implement no other forms of training or discipline during this time. Simply chicken tied around neck, and no other correction at all. Good luck.


Well, so far, we've had no need for correction yesterday or today. She's been great. That's it!...the cure..... 
She just needs a permanent chicken necklace. lol

Hey, if it works, I won't really care WHAT did it. If it doesn't work, we can blame it on the chicken, okay?


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

Just providing an update....
CC is still wearing her chicken necklace - she is on Day 5 now. 
She has required no correction since the incident on Tuesday and, aside from chronic nighttime barking, she's been great!
In fact, she just came into one of the pens and there were 3 ducks in there. Normally, she would chase them. I saw her walk towards one as though thinking about it, and then she turned the other way and left the pen.
I'm remaining hopeful.


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## CSA again (May 2, 2007)

Worked very will for my mixed terrier. 
I duck taped it on top his head.
He thanks chickens are invisible now.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Seems like either way would work.
You can tie a dead chicken to your LGD or tie a live chicken to a dead LGD. 
I've never had a chicken eating dog or a dog eating chicken. But a preditor is a preditor, with or without a collar.


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

Thought I'd provide an update, as promised - seeing as how someone revived this poor chicken necklace thread.
CC wore the chicken necklace for a good 9 days or so - she didn't notice it after about Day 2. We were more shocked that the darn thing actually stayed on there and wanted to see how long it would last. lol

If I had posted about the success of this treatment a few days following the necklace removal, I'd have been saying "You were right. It didn't work. Go ahead and tell me 'you told me so'." But, now, a few weeks later..... she's done with them. While wearing the necklace, she stopped bothering the ducks and hasn't looked at another one since. But, we caught her carrying the odd chicken around (didn't kill another one, though) a couple of times, and I had to redirect her a couple of times. I started carrying treats in my pocket and worked really hard on positive reinforcement and redirection techniques. And, her chicken chasing days have subsided completely right now. 
I know. I know. It has nothing to do with the chicken necklace, right? You're probably right. In any case, she is cured. 
Thanks for humouring me!

jodi


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

Hawkfamily said:


> . But, we caught her carrying the odd chicken around (didn't kill another one, though) a couple of times, and I had to redirect her a couple of times. I started carrying treats in my pocket and worked really hard on positive reinforcement and redirection techniques. And, her chicken chasing days have subsided completely right now.
> I know. I know. It has nothing to do with the chicken necklace, right? You're probably right. In any case, she is cured.
> Thanks for humouring me!
> 
> jodi


sooooo, it was completely wearing the dead chicken and nothing to do with the "redirection techniques". okay! gotcha! (sorry, couldn't help it ) hope the cure sticks


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## Hawkfamily (Jul 13, 2004)

It was everything to do with the redirection techniques.
Just to clarify: I didn't work to train her while she was wearing the necklace. She really required no redirection while she was wearing the chicken, so it wasn't necessary anyway. But, also, I really wanted to see if the necklace itself would work. 
When it didn't, (cuz her chicken chasing resumed after the necklace was gone) (but, she DID stop bugging the ducks), I began to redirect her and even bring her right into the chicken pen to completely subject her to the birds.
THAT was totally successful.


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

My Brittany eats poop. Should I make her wear the doo doo bag around her collar?


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2009)

westbrook said:


> tying a chicken around a dogs neck is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of doing to get a dog to stop killing chickens!
> 
> where is the logic?
> 
> ...


I agree..and I'd add that LGD's don't fully mature until they are over 2 YEARS old..they are big puppies..if you cannot spend time teaching her every day, perhaps there's a neighbor who has an LGD who CAN teach her..none of my dogs ever whacked poultry/livestock..of course it took more than several months of daily training for them to be 100% on track..ya know..LGD's tend to think for themselves and act ..for all that you know, that now-dead chicken was behaving aggressively towards another chicken and didn't stop when your LGD intervened..a threat is a threat until the dog learns otherwise


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