# The Official What Do YOU Believe?



## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

You are ONLY allowed to state what you believe as far as religion/not religion. Any bashing, debate, or other assorted written misery directed at ANYONE'S belief system will cause, with the moderator's cooperation, said post to be IMMEDIATELY deleted. Repeated infractions, bye-bye thread.

LEGITIMATE questions, such as "Pagans, do you believe there is a soul?" is acceptable.

Please, we are adults. If you CANNOT read this without giving in to the urge to bash, please just ignore the thread. We have an AMAZING cross section of people here, and I am very interested to see where people live spiritually.

I will begin: I am a non-demoninational Christian. I believe that God gave His son Jesus to die for our sins and has promised us eternal life from that sacrifice. My beliefs go a bit wild to try to explain, in my own mind, some of the big gaping gray areas. I do no believe any one "sect" of Christianity is right, nor do I believe that I must attend any church regularly to be a Christian though it is encouraged to remain strong to the faith.

Any specific question for me, like my animals go to heaven thing or whatever, is encouraged.

Otherwise, next?


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

I essentially agree with beccachow, with a caveat or two. No, I don't believe being in church makes me a Christian; and I most CERTAINLY don't believe that any denomination is 'right.' However, the Bible does say not to forsake the assembling together of peoples; so while it doesn't kill me if I miss a service, yeah, I do attend church.

And I do believe that the Bible is the word of God.


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## tonasket (Oct 20, 2004)

Me, Christian most definately. I don't attend church, my church is in the woods, in the shower, in my bed late at night. I am not opposed to an organized church at all, I just get to feeling it's like a money making business sometimes, but the fellowship is great. I am born again, asked Jesus to rule my life, and come into my heart and forgive my sins. I don't think I'm better than those who do not believe, I figure God put them in my life so maybe just maybe, they will ask me questions. I don't push, but will answer their questions. I think this is a great thread, maybe some non believers will read and see that we don't hate them for their beliefs, we all share the same air. I just do unto others as I would hope they would do unto me. I wouldn't be able to bear the things in my life without knowing there is a God and he rules my life.


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## livinzoo (Aug 29, 2007)

My beliefs are a combo of things, but mostly if asked which religion I identify with I would say Pagan.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

I believe that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and He is the only way to the Father. I believe the love of Jesus applies to everyone and the wrath of God is to be feared.
I beilieve that free will exists and although I may not agree with others regarding religion, I need to accept their right to choose for themselves. Easier said than done, but it is what Jesus wants and expects of those of us who call ourselves Christians. I admit that it is easier to show love to those who are similar in beliefs but that is not what we are called upon to do. This is what I believe.


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## rio002 (Jul 30, 2002)

Agnostic, I firmly believe that I do not have the knowledge or right to assume, based on faith or otherwise, that any "way" is the only "right way" or correct belief system.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

For me I have to say Pagan following a Norse/Teutonic path. Throw in some Celtic and you have it.

Politically a Fiscal / Constitutional conservative.. 

I have never and would never criticize someone for their religious beliefs, except where harming/killing others is part of that belief, unless in defense of self or Country.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

I don't believe in any religion. My thoughts are it is a way to control people.
I have never met a person who actually lived a christian life. I have met many who claim they did but not any who actually walked the walk. This doesn't pertain just to the christian either. I have never met or even heard of a person I thought really lived any religion.
Like many other things, if those who believe in it can't live their life the way they want others to live theirs I won't be a part of it.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I believe that I will have a beer and sit back and watch.


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## rio002 (Jul 30, 2002)

Excellent plan tinknal, I like the way you think lol


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I rather think all are going to respect beccachow's wishes for this to be a decent thread. It will be nice to read.


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## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

I was raised Catholic. I am now agnostic, probably actually athiest. I believe the bible is just stories made up to control the masses. We are born, live and die.... that is it. There is nothing more. I believe in addition to religion made up to control the masses, it was also made up to control our fear of death. I don't fear death itself... I fear getting to the point of death and how painful it may be. As a nurse, I have seen lots of people die. I know religion is a comfort to a lot of people during that time and think that is great if that's what you believe and need. I don't need that in my life.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

I don't believe in religion either and for the same reasons as Pancho. It is by definition a form of control. 

I do appreciate the inner looking religions more than those that ask that you look outside yourself for your place in the world and meaning for your life.

-I also do not hold any respect for a religion that forces itself on other cultures and demands that they change the very fabric of their society, whether it be under penalty of death or not.

-I do not hold respect for any religion that advocates torture of non believers or death of non believers.

All outward looking religions have embraced the above two tenants in their histories.

I am an atheist.
I do not practice any religion.
My daily goal is to love the world and appreciate its wonders and be glad for my time in it.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I believe that before a hundred years have passed we will all have our answers to these mighty questions. I for one, in my stumbling way, follow Christ.


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## doohap (Feb 23, 2003)

My beliefs have been posted in another thread, so I'll just say ditto to JJ Grandit's statement (except that I don't think it will take that long).


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## Nature Man (Nov 5, 2009)

I believe "Christ Lives In Me"

Bill


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

I believe that God's Son,Jesus Christ was hung on cross and died on that cross for me and i have ask that Jesus come into my heart and forgive me of my sins. I don't think that there is just one quote "Group" that is going to heaven when God comes for us, i think as long as you believe in Jesus and have ask him into your heart that is all that counts.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

fetch33 said:


> I was raised Catholic. I am now agnostic, probably actually athiest. I believe the bible is just stories made up to control the masses. We are born, live and die.... that is it. There is nothing more. I believe in addition to religion made up to control the masses, it was also made up to control our fear of death. I don't fear death itself... I fear getting to the point of death and how painful it may be. As a nurse, I have seen lots of people die. I know religion is a comfort to a lot of people during that time and think that is great if that's what you believe and need. I don't need that in my life.


Well, I knew it was too good to last......................


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm an atheist quite firmly. 

I have no doubt on it. 

However, I follow natural law which lends itself to a natural moral code.

Harm no one, then do what you will.

There is but one life so don't waste it on crime, hurting others for it will certainly hurt me too, kindness multiplies as does hate and protect unto death my life and those that depend on me because they can't be remade.

Religion is, in my opinion, a still necessary evil for most humans and so I accept that it exists, so long as it exists outside my home and doesn't infringe upon me and my right to live using moral code that is both logical and humane and requires me to despise no one who doesn't personally deserve it.

I am happily ensuring that people who have the same "birth defect" as I are bred as much as possible. The lack of a god spot in my brain means I have never believed in any magical thing, whether it be santa or devils or gods and physically can't do so. It is a wonderful genetic tic that is being seen more and more. I'm helping it along for I truly believe that when all people realize that there is this life and to have it is such a wonderful thing and that is what we get, there will be no more war.


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

tinknal said:


> Well, I knew it was too good to last......................


Tink, I don't think that rises to it. Others have explained that they believe so and so, and that responder just explained their beliefs.


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## green5acres (Aug 13, 2004)

I am basically on the same page as Becca.I do go to church, not on a regular basis


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

ChristyACB said:


> Tink, I don't think that rises to it. Others have explained that they believe so and so, and that responder just explained their beliefs.


I agree, the spirit in which it was posted was not mean spirited or bashing, just a stated reason for a belief. I am quite proud of us so far!


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

I believe the children are our future, teach them well..........


Well, maybe save that one for another post.

I believe that there is a G-d who watches over me and wants me to be happy and succeed.


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

Ahahah....I was going to do the same thing. :gaptooth:








"....teach them well and let them lead the WAAAAAYY!!!!!"


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

Christian Reformed (Calvinistic) attending an independent Baptist Church


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Good thread....
When religion comes up in my classroom, one thing I say that my students and I all agree on (no matter the religion) is most religions have some belief in accountability for behavior and the way you are to live. 
That is one positive factor of religion...


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## tonasket (Oct 20, 2004)

I am truly interested in those of you who do not believe in a higher power. Not bashing you, not thinking I am better or different because I do believe. Just so curious how you live a life w/out thinking there is more to it than this life. It may be freeing in a way I suppose, I take comfort in knowing and believing there is more. I appreciate that there has been no bashing on either side, and everyone I have seen posted on this thread seem like very nice people and I have read other threads by them as well, and I find them to be informative and not hateful. I did like the one who said they try to harm no others and just live their lives. My goal is to hurt noone, bash nobodies beliefs because they differ than mine. I do take comfort in my own beliefs and stand up for them. This is interesting to read other folks take on the question.


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## Jena (Aug 13, 2003)

tonasket said:


> I am truly interested in those of you who do not believe in a higher power. Not bashing you, not thinking I am better or different because I do believe. Just so curious how you live a life w/out thinking there is more to it than this life. It may be freeing in a way I suppose, I take comfort in knowing and believing there is more. I appreciate that there has been no bashing on either side, and everyone I have seen posted on this thread seem like very nice people and I have read other threads by them as well, and I find them to be informative and not hateful. I did like the one who said they try to harm no others and just live their lives. My goal is to hurt noone, bash nobodies beliefs because they differ than mine. I do take comfort in my own beliefs and stand up for them. This is interesting to read other folks take on the question.


I do not see the point of living my life today by focusing on a possible, mysterious future. I just do not see the point in that. If I know this is all there is, I am highly motivated to make the most of it and also do what I can to add something and good and positive to this clamorous, chaotic, wildly beautiful, sometimes ugly great chain of humanity, which will go on long after I am gone. I am simply not that special. I am just another organism who has had a chance to live on this planet. 

I understand how (I think) religion came about and I understand the need for that comfort for some, but I just can't believe it. The more we learn in science, the more sense science makes. I can see how religion filled in some of the blanks, things we didn't understand. There is a lot we still don't know, but I am absolutely sure that no supreme being is behind any of it. It's just stuff we haven't figured out yet.

I am utterly content in my beliefs and feel no need whatsoever to hope for "something more". The absolute awe I feel at the beauty of the intricate, complex and so very perfect earth system, is more than enough for me.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I don't believe in religion, I believe in having a personal relationship with Jesus. I tried the religion thing and instead of drawing me closer to God it pulled me so far away that I stopped believing in Him for a long time. I believe that I am a sinner, saved by grace. I believe that the followers of Christ are the church, not the buildings. I believe in heaven and hell. I also believe that I serve a merciful God, who created me and loves me.


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## tonasket (Oct 20, 2004)

Well said Sonshine, and I agree w/you. I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, just forgiven.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

tonasket said:


> I am truly interested in those of you who do not believe in a higher power. Not bashing you, not thinking I am better or different because I do believe. Just so curious how you live a life w/out thinking there is more to it than this life. It may be freeing in a way I suppose, I take comfort in knowing and believing there is more. I appreciate that there has been no bashing on either side, and everyone I have seen posted on this thread seem like very nice people and I have read other threads by them as well, and I find them to be informative and not hateful. I did like the one who said they try to harm no others and just live their lives. My goal is to hurt noone, bash nobodies beliefs because they differ than mine. I do take comfort in my own beliefs and stand up for them. This is interesting to read other folks take on the question.


We live life like it should be lived. This is the only life we have so we should make it the best we can.
Why would you want to live life expecting something in the future?
Why not live this life like you would live the life you are expecting in the future?


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Understanding that the questions in these posts are rhetorical, not inflammatory. 

Told ya all I'd be watching like a hawk, lol.


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## tonasket (Oct 20, 2004)

pancho, I do live my life for today, tomorrow is not a guarantee. But for ME I take comfort in believing there is more after this life. I don't refrain from living and enjoying and trying to better this life. I became a widow at 31, and that event locked in solid my belief in God, and Heaven. I certainly do not think that my way of living is better than yours or anyones. I do find this thread very thought provoking. And I appreciate that noone has become ugly. I may disagree w/you or someone else, but I'm not going to bash anyone because they don't share the same feelings. That's just not the way I live my life. It is very interesting to hear from you and others. I'm just happy to share my beliefs and learn about others as well.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Honestly, tonasket, if we are wrong, we'll be dead and it won't matter anyway!  (joking).


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

I do not know what is next, but I have an 'idea' that I really like.

Energy cannot be destroyed, only changed.

We are the sum of what we know.

Human knowledge, memory etc.. is nothing but a series of chemical and electrical impulses.

The electricity that fires our nerves and sparks in our brains is energy and cannot be destroyed, only it's form can change.

So when we die that energy is dispersed.

What becomes of it after that...? But it is still out there in somne form. Does it hold it's frequency? Does it retain ? Who knows..


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## demeter (Jul 15, 2010)

Raised Christian, now atheist. Although I really like the idea of heaven, or an afterlife, I don't believe it anymore. I REALLY dig the idea of reincarnation, but I don't believe it either.

Demeter


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Well, could that explain the reported "hauntings?" Energy that cannot leave a place they were attached to?

(I also believe in ghosties).


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

demeter said:


> . I REALLY dig the idea of reincarnation, but I don't believe it either.
> Demeter


I really find some things in this world to be very interesting. One of them is child savants. How can a 3 year old paint like a master? How can a 2 year play the piano perfectly and songs and movements that they have never heard? My son had very detailed dreams of being on old man when he was a wee, wee boy. He was an old man and dying and his family was around him. I asked if he was a good man and he said he thought so. He worked in a hospital full of children and all of the children coughed.He couldn't make very many of them better. DS was under 3 years of age.
Things like this really, really make me wonder at all the things we do not know.
I am a great believer in 'possibility'.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

'Nista, if you're really interested in reincarnation you can put it to the test for yourself. See a qualified, reputable hypnotherapist and do a series of past life regressions. Get all the sessions recorded on video by a trusted friend present so that there's evidence that the hypnotherapist was not planting suggestions. If you're a good subject for hypnotism the results will leave you with no doubts in your mind about the reality of repeated reincarnations.

.


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

I beleive in God of AAbraham Father of Jesus and The Alpha and the Omega the one.....Now on an intersting side Note...I was raised by a Catholic Father and Latterday Saint mother both sides of My Grandparents were devout One catholic, the Other LDS...But I chose baptist as a tween and thats my foundation...I often wonder how it is that some one with my past can be so blessed as I am to be clean. I do not attend Church for the very reasons Outlined in my up bringing...in other words organized religion seems so rigid...i read the word and commune with god in nature...I feel most at Peace when I have done something good and fruitful(not necessarily good as in good for the world but Productive) good to me is success... success is winning and winning is everything....I guess my religion(not my beleif) is success or working toward it. My belief is totally different it entails humbling yourself before the lord and realizing true success comes from the lamb....Good thread and good communications...I have enough science in my brain to see the points of the atheist , and all the rest...But I think beleif is a little more heart than brain...its more faith than knowledge...sometimes you just got to push the i beleive button and take that step....in the end I think we all go to church even on a thread with so many different opinions and beleifs...
Where two or more come together in my name



> And I tell you that you are Peter,[a] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades* will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.&#8221; 20*


*

Peter is the rock or the foundation we are (in discussing this) fortifying that foundation.....To be truthful I have been all over this earth in many serious situations, seen wonderous and horrible things and I have always felt the face of christ looking after me....I guess for me its as plain as the nose on your face...it is because it must be....its just that plain....


My wish for everyone this season is that they find peace within no matter your beliefs...*


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

beccachow said:


> You are ONLY allowed to state what you believe as far as religion/not religion.....


I think there's a difference between the things we *believe* and the things we *know*. I also think there is a difference between *religion* and *spirituality*.

I believe that religions can be a good thing for people. Religions offer a varied support system for large communities. By communities I mean societies on a large scale who have a common belief system and social and moral laws that binds them together and holds them up in accord with each other. The same thing can be said for different types of spirituality.

Before there were nations and cities with large populations there were small scattered communities of tribes and clans. Everywhere, all around the world. Before there were religions there was only spirituality within the smaller tribes and clans, supported and held together by the shamanic practitioners who, amongst many other important responsibilities, acted as intermediaries or intercessors and interpreters between the clans and all the natural spirits and spirit worlds. Much the way modern clergy today act as intercessors and interpreters between people and the god of the religion they have constructed for themselves to worship. 

Most of those clans all over the world had many different customs and cultural practices but one thing they all had in common, even those clans who didn't know of other clans existence on the other side of the world, was their shamans. The shamans all *knew* of each other's existence and they were all capable of communicating with each other across vast distances via the spirit world which has no boundaries or limitations. That is why all shamans everywhere had so many commonalities in their beliefs and practices, and still do even today.

That is the type of spirituality that I'm most comfortable with rather than any religion, and that spirituality came naturally to me at a very early age even though I was initially raised in the Christian religion. Shamanic spirituality is a universal thing that can bind all people together in a common cause and common understanding with no boundaries, you could call it sort of a cosmic consciousness connected to .... a single god consciousness. But constructed religions can't do that because they're all so different from each other with many boundaries and restrictions and have no real connection to the natural spirit worlds throughout the whole universe.


.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Bigkat80 said:


> *My wish for everyone this season is that they find peace within no matter your beliefs...*


Amen to that! :goodjob: :thumb:

.


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## fetch33 (Jan 15, 2010)

Jena said:


> I do not see the point of living my life today by focusing on a possible, mysterious future. I just do not see the point in that. If I know this is all there is, I am highly motivated to make the most of it and also do what I can to add something and good and positive to this clamorous, chaotic, wildly beautiful, sometimes ugly great chain of humanity, which will go on long after I am gone. I am simply not that special. I am just another organism who has had a chance to live on this planet.
> 
> I understand how (I think) religion came about and I understand the need for that comfort for some, but I just can't believe it. The more we learn in science, the more sense science makes. I can see how religion filled in some of the blanks, things we didn't understand. There is a lot we still don't know, but I am absolutely sure that no supreme being is behind any of it. It's just stuff we haven't figured out yet.
> 
> I am utterly content in my beliefs and feel no need whatsoever to hope for "something more". The absolute awe I feel at the beauty of the intricate, complex and so very perfect earth system, is more than enough for me.


You said it perfectly! That is what I believe also.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

chickenista said:


> I do not know what is next, but I have an 'idea' that I really like.
> 
> Energy cannot be destroyed, only changed.
> 
> ...





beccachow said:


> Well, could that explain the reported "hauntings?" Energy that cannot leave a place they were attached to?
> 
> (I also believe in ghosties).


 
That's what I call the Living Spirit. :grin:

.


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## farmmom (Jan 4, 2009)

I believe that Jesus is the son of God, that he was born in the flesh, lived a sinless life, died on the cross to carry the sins of the world. At the age of 17, I asked Jesus to forgive my sins and take control of my life. While life has not been easy by any stretch of the imagination, I have been able to see God's hand in every experience I've had. I know that at the end of this life, I will join God, my husband, and many other loved ones in Heaven where we will eternally be without pain, sorrow, illness, etc.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

My religious belief is adequate to provide me with the path to comfort and promise that I require.


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## Old John (May 27, 2004)

Well, I've been religious all my Life. I still am.
I was raised Roman Catholic, in an actively Catholic family. I was very actively Catholic, until I was nearly 40 years old. The later part of that I became involved in the Charismatic Catholic, movement. It was prettty intense, very emotional. ETA....It involved Speaking in Tongues and the other 7 Charisma, or Gifts of the Spirit...
From that I drifted away from Christianity, and eventually into Paganism and later into Wicca. I totally immersed myself in Wicca, as I had earlier with Charismatic Catholicism.
I was Hp and helped run a Coven for a dozen years......All the while looking for the Old Pre-christian Ancestral Gods. I had become convinced that the Gods of a People, a Folk are Cultural Gods, tied to the Culture , World view and birthright of that Folk. I didn't really find Them in Wicca which is mostly Celtic, Culturally.

So, in about 1991 or 2, I made another transition, to Asatru and Germanic Heathenry.
I did indeed find the Gods I was looking for, the Old, Pre-christian Ancestral Gods of Our Folk, the Germanic Folk. Odin, Thor, Freyr and Freyja, Frigga, Heimdahl, Idunna and several others, are the Germanic Gods, to whom, I now pay Homage, and have for the last, nearly 20 years. I teach and about once a month gather a little band of Folks to share in the practice of Asatru. ETA...We feel like we are doing it right.

I do Not disparage anyone else's Beliefs. We all find our way, as our Heart and our Soul leads us. Everyone has a Right to their Own Beliefs, and the peaceful practice of them.

I do believe that the Gods and the Teachings, are Cultural. I believe that Christianity is an outgrowth of the Desert Faith, Message and Teachings of the Jewish Folk and their God. Islam is also an outgrowth of Judaism. They all have good Teachings...just not for me & mine. ETA... If that is your Way, I hope you find Peace there.
I have tried to explain my POV. I hope I've aided in your understanding.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm an atheist. I believe there is no convincing reason to believe in the supernatural. There is no soul, there is nothing beyond what we observe in the physical universe. When you die, "you" ends completely and utterly as the brain, neurons, neurotransmitters, etc. that made you you stop functioning. It's an awful burden being a human and realizing one's own finiteness, so we create delusions to lessen the realization.

Everyone is in the same boat of having limited time to experience life, so treat them with kindness and understanding, and try to help them enjoy their lives too.

There is no past and there is no future. Now is all that has and ever will exist. Experience it to the fullest.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

tonasket said:


> Just so curious how you live a life w/out thinking there is more to it than this life.


I try to experience this life to its fullest in the realization that it is all that I have and will ever have.

I find the basic buddhist/taoist philosophy enjoyable and appealing as a "spiritual" view of life without requiring the belief in, what to me are absurd things (the soul, afterlife, gods, etc.).


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## ChristyACB (Apr 10, 2008)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I'm an atheist. I believe there is no convincing reason to believe in the supernatural. There is no soul, there is nothing beyond what we observe in the physical universe. When you die, "you" ends completely and utterly as the brain, neurons, neurotransmitters, etc. that made you you stop functioning. It's an awful burden being a human and realizing one's own finiteness, so we create delusions to lessen the realization.
> 
> Everyone is in the same boat of having limited time to experience life, so treat them with kindness and understanding, and try to help them enjoy their lives too.
> 
> There is no past and there is no future. Now is all that has and ever will exist. Experience it to the fullest.


You've said it so perfectly. It is an awful burden and one, I believe, humanity had to create a remedy for in order to survive the darkest times of our evolutionary path.

I truly believe and try to live this axiom: My afterlife consists of the effects I had on others who are still alive. I try very hard to have those be beneficial.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

ChristyACB said:


> humanity had to create a remedy for in order to survive the darkest times of our evolutionary path.


I think more like everyday existence rather than darkest times. As far as we know we are the only species that fully appreciates the self, in the sense that I am here today, at some point in the past I did not exist and at some point in the not-too-distant-future I will cease to exist.

For the most part animals live fully in the here and now, exclusively. 

I think it's interesting that our closest genetic relatives have seemingly incipient concepts of the self. Figure if we split of from them ~5-6 million years ago it took millions of years to see in the archaeological record evidence of our ancestors behaving like modern humans in terms of a well-developed concept of the self (probably within the last couple hundred thousand years).


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## Kung (Jan 19, 2004)

I do want to point something out, however. (And I realize this isn't a scientific poll, but it's about as close to objective as we'll get here. )

People are always complaining about how 'right-wing' or 'Christian' or such this board is. I went through the thread and counted up the Christians, and then the nonChristians.

There's about 11 or 12 Christians participating in this thread; and about 15 or so nonChristians.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

Kung said:


> People are always complaining about how 'right-wing' or 'Christian' or such this board is. I went through the thread and counted up the Christians, and then the nonChristians.


I think what is unusual about this board as compared to others I've participated in is that the Christians here are what I would call "real" Christians who are sincere in their beliefs and practice them.

Most Christians I interact with on other forums are predominately your Christian by cultural inertia sort who don't really let it get in the way of their everyday life


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

tonasket said:


> pancho, I do live my life for today, tomorrow is not a guarantee. But for ME I take comfort in believing there is more after this life. I don't refrain from living and enjoying and trying to better this life. I became a widow at 31, and that event locked in solid my belief in God, and Heaven. I certainly do not think that my way of living is better than yours or anyones. I do find this thread very thought provoking. And I appreciate that noone has become ugly. I may disagree w/you or someone else, but I'm not going to bash anyone because they don't share the same feelings. That's just not the way I live my life. It is very interesting to hear from you and others. I'm just happy to share my beliefs and learn about others as well.


I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me. I enjoy it. The world would be a very boring place if we didn't have different beliefs and ideas. Think how boring a conservation would be if we all had the same beliefs.

Years ago I became delusioned with religion. I did a lot of research on many different religions. I just didn't find one that fit me. That may be my fault. 
If I am wrong, and that happens regulary, I will have to pay the price for my failings. It does make me very curious. Now I have something to look forward to when that day comes.


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## rio002 (Jul 30, 2002)

Tonasket--Just as you are curious about people who don't believe in the hereafter/heaven etc. I am equally curious about people who have an incredibly strong sense of faith. I respect them greatly though I tend to disagree with their beliefs as they disagree with mine. As an Agnostic, I believe there is a Possibility of Heaven, Hell, Shangri'la how ever it could be termed but I simply am unable to commit to one single religion or belief system. I look at it this way ---Just who do I think I am to tell Ghandi or Confucious or the Pope that he's wrong? And by choosing one individual religion and saying this is the right one for me, that's exactly what I feel I would be doing. There really are a mass of similarities that run through each religion or spiritual belief system (just worded differently) that I find it amazing that people find so many things to disagree about. I am really enjoying this discussion, thanks Beccachow!


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## TheMartianChick (May 26, 2009)

rio002 said:


> Tonasket--Just as you are curious about people who don't believe in the hereafter/heaven etc. I am equally curious about people who have an incredibly strong sense of faith. I respect them greatly though I tend to disagree with their beliefs as they disagree with mine. As an Agnostic, I believe there is a Possibility of Heaven, Hell, Shangri'la how ever it could be termed but I simply am unable to commit to one single religion or belief system. I look at it this way ---Just who do I think I am to tell Ghandi or Confucious or the Pope that he's wrong? And by choosing one individual religion and saying this is the right one for me, that's exactly what I feel I would be doing. There really are a mass of similarities that run through each religion or spiritual belief system (just worded differently) that I find it amazing that people find so many things to disagree about. I am really enjoying this discussion, thanks Beccachow!


I can agree with a great deal in this post, though I do not identify myself as an Agnostic. I have long conversations with God every day, but struggle with aligning myself with any one religion. The closest religion that I have ever found that seems to fit (though I know of no local congregations) is Bahai. The religion respects all of the major religions equally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahai


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

chickenista said:


> I don't believe in religion either and for the same reasons as Pancho. It is by definition a form of control.
> 
> I do appreciate the inner looking religions more than those that ask that you look outside yourself for your place in the world and meaning for your life.
> 
> ...


Question for you and Pancho, or anyone else who wants to chime in.
How is it control to have a belief in something? What I mean is those that don't attend an organized religion (such as a church, not trying to out Christians, just using it as an example), how are they being controlled?

Just curious, because from where I stand, every person has to have a belief/commitment. It is what makes us who we are. 

Does that make sense, because I at a loss for the proper words to get my point across.


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## 10ecn (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm a Heathen.:viking:


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## 10ecn (Mar 12, 2010)

*My wish for everyone this season is that they find peace within no matter your beliefs...*[/QUOTE]

And for all the other seasons, as well. Amen.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

Sonshine said:


> I don't believe in religion, I believe in having a personal relationship with Jesus. I tried the religion thing and instead of drawing me closer to God it pulled me so far away that I stopped believing in Him for a long time. I believe that I am a sinner, saved by grace. I believe that the followers of Christ are the church, not the buildings. I believe in heaven and hell. I also believe that I serve a merciful God, who created me and loves me.


^^What she said.



naturelover said:


> I think there's a difference between the things we *believe* and the things we *know*. I also think there is a difference between *religion* and *spirituality*.


I agree with that statement.



Dwayne Barry said:


> I'm an atheist. I believe there is no convincing reason to believe in the supernatural. There is no soul, there is nothing beyond what we observe in the physical universe. When you die, "you" ends completely and utterly as the brain, neurons, neurotransmitters, etc. that made you you stop functioning. It's an awful burden being a human and realizing one's own finiteness, so we create delusions to lessen the realization.
> 
> Everyone is in the same boat of having limited time to experience life, so treat them with kindness and understanding, and try to help them enjoy their lives too.
> 
> There is no past and there is no future. Now is all that has and ever will exist. Experience it to the fullest.


I want to answer this but it will take the thread off topic.

Dwayne Barry, is it ok if I take your quote to a new topic? It will be a very Christian topic.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

ladycat said:


> ^^What she said.
> 
> I agree with that statement.
> 
> ...


Sure, have at it.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Kung said:


> I do want to point something out, however. (And I realize this isn't a scientific poll, but it's about as close to objective as we'll get here. )
> 
> People are always complaining about how 'right-wing' or 'Christian' or such this board is. I went through the thread and counted up the Christians, and then the nonChristians.
> 
> There's about 11 or 12 Christians participating in this thread; and about 15 or so nonChristians.


Yea I get that too.. Being a Pagan, where as a general rule most are liberals, me as a conservative stands out like a sore thumb..People just jump to conclusions that I'm a liberal or I'm a Christian.. I find their expressions funny when I tell them differently...

To me it's not who you worship, but how you live your life.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Bigkat80 said:


> I beleive in God of AAbraham Father of Jesus and The Alpha and the Omega the one.....Now on an intersting side Note...I was raised by a Catholic Father and Latterday Saint mother both sides of My Grandparents were devout One catholic, the Other LDS...But I chose baptist as a tween and thats my foundation...I often wonder how it is that some one with my past can be so blessed as I am to be clean. I do not attend Church for the very reasons Outlined in my up bringing...in other words organized religion seems so rigid...i read the word and commune with god in nature...I feel most at Peace when I have done something good and fruitful(not necessarily good as in good for the world but Productive) good to me is success... success is winning and winning is everything....I guess my religion(not my beleif) is success or working toward it. My belief is totally different it entails humbling yourself before the lord and realizing true success comes from the lamb....Good thread and good communications...I have enough science in my brain to see the points of the atheist , and all the rest...But I think beleif is a little more heart than brain...its more faith than knowledge...sometimes you just got to push the i beleive button and take that step....in the end I think we all go to church even on a thread with so many different opinions and beleifs...
> Where two or more come together in my name
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, I'm confused!

How does the Alpha and the Omega relate to religion? I know it in the military sense or the beginning or end of the Greek alphabet.

Where I am the Omega, meaning you may start the fight, but I will finish it..
I will be here in the end.. That is how I look at it..


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

beowulf, I will field that one for you. In Christianity, God is referred to as Alpha and Omega, literally, the beginning and the end. He was here at the start, has always been here, and will be here at the end. Always, without end. Did that make sense? It's hard to wrap your head around an infinite concept; I suspect that is why some people have such a hard time accepting the idea of God.


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

beowoulf90 said:


> Ok, I'm confused!
> 
> How does the Alpha and the Omega relate to religion? I know it in the military sense or the beginning or end of the Greek alphabet.


Jesus said, "I am the Alpha and the Omega". If you read that whole passage in context (I'll have to look it up to get the book/verse), He was saying He (as God) was without beginning and without end.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

beccachow said:


> beowulf, I will field that one for you. In Christianity, God is referred to as Alpha and Omega, literally, the beginning and the end. He was here at the start, has always been here, and will be here at the end. Always, without end. Did that make sense?


Ok, that is what I thought, but wanted to make sure..

Thanks for the answer.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

ladycat said:


> Jesus said, "I am the Alpha and the Omega". If you read that whole passage in context (I'll have to look it up to get the book/verse), He was saying He (as God) was without beginning and without end.


Thanks Ladycat, becca beat you to it..I understand why and how the terms were used.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

beccachow said:


> He was here at the start, has always been here, and will be here at the end. Always, without end. Did that make sense? It's hard to wrap your head around an infinite concept; I suspect that is why some people have such a hard time accepting the idea of God.


Alternatively it is also why many people think there must be God(s). They can not get their head around the idea that maybe the Universe simply is and has always been (maybe with giant reset button, i.e. a "Big Bang" happening every once in a while). So they say, "well there must be God to start it all!" 

This is of course a logical fallacy since it simply begs the question of who/what created God?

If you're willing to concede that such a thing as "God" can simply be then surely such a thing as the Universe can simply be?


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## Haggis (Mar 11, 2004)

I hold that all gods and religions are little more than myths created to ease the minds of frightened folk, and as such, I don't really hold any religion in higher esteem than any other (though I was for many years a Pentecostal Holiness Evangelist). I believe that organized religions throughout history have served no purpose other than controlling a given populous. Taken as a whole, any "god" will, for me, do in a crisis, so I do suppose there is a learned spiritualism mingling amidst my thoughts. 

When folk ask me what religion I cling to, I usually say, "I, as with the folk at Antioch, have been called a "Christian", but I rather fancy myself a Frisbitarian. We don't go to a heaven or h**l, we just get thrown up on the roof and can't get down."


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## manfred (Dec 21, 2005)

I am a atheist and have been since my earliest childhood memories, it hasnt always been easy and I usually kept/keep it to myself.


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

beowoulf90 said:


> Ok, I'm confused!
> 
> How does the Alpha and the Omega relate to religion? I know it in the military sense or the beginning or end of the Greek alphabet.
> 
> ...


It has military connotations, too ... He (Jesus Christ) will return to fight, and win.


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## Jena (Aug 13, 2003)

There is a lot about the universe that we simply cannot perceive and that is why it is a big unknown to us. That is what I think anyways. There could a definite boundary to the universe, but we just can't perceive it. 

Think of a fish living in a lake. That fish has no idea that there is land or a sky or other creatures living in both. It simply cannot perceive these things because they are outside of it's realm of existence. 

I also think that the things we cannot perceive are not magical, like ghosts or gods or whatever, but just things we can't "see", much as land and sky are very real things, governed by the same rules as a lake, but that fish just can't see it.

According to quantum theory...all time exists right now. We only experience this second because we can't perceive the rest. We just can't see it.

We may figure it all out someday, or it may simply be beyond the capabilities of our little minds. Either way, that reality is still there...or so I think. There are some who would argue that a reality without recognition does not exist. It's all really mind boggling and utterly fascinating to me.


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## TC (Jun 22, 2005)

I believe in Jesus the Son of God who was also God Himself born as a man and who died for my sins and the sins of the world. I also believe that because I believe this fact that when I leave this world I will not perish because He promised that I would have eternal life in paradise. I also believe that those who do not believe that Jesus is their Saviour and who never ask HIm to live in their heart will indeed not just die but will be punished eternally for rejecting Him. I do not believe one must attend church to be saved, but do believe that when once one is truly saved, you crave the fellowship and companionship of other believers and thus church usually, not always but usually, is a natural occurance due to that desire in a Christian's life. I go as often as possible and do as much as I can to help my church in any way they need help especially in helping the community around us, Christians and non Christans alike. I also believe, that I am commanded to live each and every day as a Christian and as close to Christ like as I can possibly get. I will falter, I am human, but as a born again Christian I should strive with each breath to do as He wants me to do and to ask Him to direct my life to His will. I believe that once you are saved you are always saved but feel that if you are truly saved you will have a hard time only thinking about Jesus once in a blue moon or not living as your faith will dictate. Once I was truly saved hardly a day goes by that I do not pray or think of Him or am touched by Him or made aware in some way that I am a Christian, living a Christian life.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Ok, I was raised Methodist(and I have 12 years of Sunday School pins to prove it!), but never joined the church because I had too many questions without answers.

Then I came to understand that there were "editors" for the Bible. Books in exsistance that were excluded and what about the writings that were never found? What about the years of Christ's life that were not included? Going further with this line of reasoning will only draw fire from the "devinely inspired" folks. At which point I could begin a list of nuts who thought they were doing God's work too. 

Religion is personal. I frankly ENVY persons with sincere faith, they have a strengh that is awsome. I have prayed in times of need, but don't attend any organized religon..to do so with all the doubts in my heart makes me feel a hypocrite( as did those prayers). I also have trouble with the consept of "free will" from an all knowing God..if He knows our choice before we make it how do we have free will?? When I choose what He knows I will "choose", did I have the freedom to choose otherwise?

List me as Agnostic/undecided. The irony of this position is that if I am right I will never know it; but if I'm wrong I'll have an eternity to regret it!


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

I was raised Catholic and was a very rabid one in my early 40s. It never felt right to me, but I stayed. Going through the motions, I guess.

I consider myself a pagan now.....so what I believe.....

I believe in the Divine, I believe the Divine is in everything and as such, we should respect everything, animals, people, plants, soil, trees, etc. There is a little bit of the Divine in everything.

I believe in one God, with many aspects. God, Allah, Vishnu, Zeus, Odin, Jesus, Pan, Apollo, etc....all aspects of the one.

I believe we are all put on our own path to the Divine. Some people will follow the Christian path, some the Jewish path, some the pagan path, even an atheist or agnostic path etc What is right for one may not be for another, you will know when you find yours.

I believe that animals go to the next life and we will see them when we get there.

I dont believe in "satan", I believe there is evil and there are things not of the light, whether they are tortured souls, or things that have "had their chance" so to speak, and still turned from the light. I also believe that we are able to help them come back to the light.

Harm none. Enjoy life, it is meant for us to enjoy. Its not a big cookie jar high on the shelf that is put there for us to wish we could have one but are told not to. We are made to enjoy being human, not to apologize for being human or unworthy, or put ourselves down. God made us human and God doesn't make junk.

I know the Divine has a wonderful sense of humor! 

Don't get caught up in the world, enjoy it as it is meant to be enjoyed, but know there is much more after this world. Create, enjoy, live.....

My signature boils it down to the basics pretty much.


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## gideonprime (Oct 17, 2007)

I believe in trying to always be better than I was the day before.

More honest (if just with myself).
More willing to listen to others.
More willing to give of myself.
Etc Etc Etc.

No religion for me. Athiest I suppose, though I'd probablly say agnostic.


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

I have really enjoyed the maturity of this thread...no finger pointing/no name calling no bashing...good Job Folks in this one thread we are all blessed....because of our behavior....


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## dahliaqueen (Nov 9, 2005)

put my beliefs into words.

When people ask me what my religion is, i tell them that i am an organic farmer.

When you live your life as a steward of the land, you come to understand that there is a profound life force in every thing-rock, tree, flower or blade of grass.

I have no fear of death because i see that living a life connected to the earth and the wild places is heaven for me. I have what i need.

Happy holidays- all of them- from this pagan/druid/Buddhist


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

beowoulf90 said:


> Question for you and Pancho, or anyone else who wants to chime in.
> How is it control to have a belief in something? What I mean is those that don't attend an organized religion (such as a church, not trying to out Christians, just using it as an example), how are they being controlled?
> 
> Just curious, because from where I stand, every person has to have a belief/commitment. It is what makes us who we are.
> ...


This is just an idea I have. I am not saying it is right.

People are a lot easier to control if they are in a group. They have to have something to keep them in that group. You can't physically keep them in a group as it would be natural to try to escape.
Years ago some people found it was a lot easier to take control of a group if you could get them all to believe in the same thing. Nothing fills the bill as well as religion.
You have the people in a group. You give them a set of rules. You give them someone to blame when things go bad. You give them someone to thank when things are good. You give them someone to call out for help when they need it. You give them something to look forward to no matter what happens to them.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

pancho said:


> This is just an idea I have. I am not saying it is right.
> 
> People are a lot easier to control if they are in a group. They have to have something to keep them in that group. You can't physically keep them in a group as it would be natural to try to escape.
> Years ago some people found it was a lot easier to take control of a group if you could get them all to believe in the same thing. Nothing fills the bill as well as religion.
> You have the people in a group. You give them a set of rules. You give them someone to blame when things go bad. You give them someone to thank when things are good. You give them someone to call out for help when they need it. You give them something to look forward to no matter what happens to them.


Ok I think I understand what you are saying.. Something along the Jim Jones line, if I take you meaning correctly.

If I have it right then I understand your stance..


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

I believe, that God is in all of us. That he works through us. That even is you don't believe there is a god, you should strive to have the best morals you can find it in your heart to have.
That the real church is in side you, and is not made of bricks and mortor.


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## salmonslayer (Jan 4, 2009)

I was raised as an am a Deist. To keep it simple, I believe there is a higher power but that man has no special standing and that god does not interfere with the natural laws he created. We dont believe in miracles, destiny, prophecies, holy books etc and do not have houses of worship. We believe you become closer to god by observing nature and how it works and respecting what he created.

I am not a Christian in that I do not believe Jesus is the son of god but I do believe he existed and most Deists are accepting of organized religions as important in organizing civilzed society even though they reject the concept of the chosen or saved, heaven, hell etc. 

Basically we believe in evolution, science and that what happens on earth is due to the natural laws established by god and that god does not interfere with that process.


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

Kung said:


> I do want to point something out, however. (And I realize this isn't a scientific poll, but it's about as close to objective as we'll get here. )
> 
> People are always complaining about how 'right-wing' or 'Christian' or such this board is. I went through the thread and counted up the Christians, and then the nonChristians.
> 
> There's about 11 or 12 Christians participating in this thread; and about 15 or so nonChristians.


I think what's probably significant about that is that there may be a few more non-Christians on the board than most people realize. Christians are much more vocal in expounding about their religion than non-Christians and some of the non-Christians who might normally avoid posting in such a topic are being encouraged to participate, are not feeling threatened by the usual risk of being bashed or argued with, so they're feeling comfortable about opening up about their beliefs this time. It's been made very plain that arguing and disagreements will not be tolerated in this thread and people are abiding by that. I know I find that more encouraging for me to open up (I'm a non-Christian). I think the conversation is going along swimmingly for a GC topic about religion/non-religion that would usually have gone downhill rapidly by now.

Perhaps if an anonymous poll were taken there'd be a better idea of how many Christians vs. non-Christians there really are on the board.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

REMINDER: This was a nice thread, where EVERYONE could state what they believe. That was the deal: no debating for the purpose of proving something, no bashing, etc. I was having a great time reading this, go out for a bit, come back and all the kids have been smacking each other and need a time out. :nono:

Seriously: If you cannot resist bashing, TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. The deal was, a few posts would be deleted, then the whole thread would have to go bye bye. Guess where we are now?

Please keep this civil. This isn't the place to try to prove your point. Please don't wreck this for those of us who are enjoying it.

I was going to ask what the difference is between paganism and wicca(n?), as I know they both have respect of nature as the central force, or am I mistaken in that?


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## Paumon (Jul 12, 2007)

What Salmonslayer said here pretty much sums up my own beliefs.



salmonslayer said:


> I was raised as an am a Deist. To keep it simple, I believe there is a higher power but that man has no special standing and that god does not interfere with the natural laws he created. We dont believe in miracles, destiny, prophecies, holy books etc and do not have houses of worship. We believe you become closer to god by observing nature and how it works and respecting what he created.
> 
> I am not a Christian in that I do not believe Jesus is the son of god but I do believe he existed and most Deists are accepting of organized religions as important in organizing civilzed society even though they reject the concept of the chosen or saved, heaven, hell etc.
> 
> Basically we believe in evolution, science and that what happens on earth is due to the natural laws established by god and that god does not interfere with that process.


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## jim/se kansas (May 10, 2002)

It's not about religion, it's about relationship. I can be as close to God down at the barn with my cows, goats and chickens as I am at church. Jesus loved people right where they were at. Believer or non-believer. Enough said, Pastor Jim


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## DENALI (Mar 25, 2008)

I truly hope there is a God and all is right in the end. But until he himself presents himself to me and kicks me in the cashews thus providing positive evidence to me directly i cant say i believe or disbelieve. However having said that i believe that no other form, faction, fact or fiction has caused more war, death, grief or civil unrest throughout history than religion or inflicted by those in the name of religion.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Religion is a man made structure.
It started as a way to explain the then unexplainable.. lightning, floods, deaths..
And it became ritualized. Even rats will ritualize the arrival of food in a cage and repeat the sequence repeatedly in hopes of a food reward. 
Then someone in the tribe was given the role as priest or shaman and took power over the rest of the tribe and their daily rituals.
Then folks began living in groups and civilizations. More people and more control needed. There were no secular laws, only religious laws. Temples were built and the priests and shamans gained more power and became leaders of the people chosen by the god of their choice. It became a family thing passed down for generations.
When new lands and resources were taken over, the most important action was to outlaw that group's religion. If you take the basis for a culture from a people and force them to accept a new identity you weaken them and then meld them with your own. 

Religion has been power since it's very beginning. It has shaped our entire world. Wars, genocides, atrocities against other tribes, groups of people within a culture etc.. if you believed that the earth revolved around the sun, you were imprisoned or killed. If you tried to cover your face and clean your hands while dealing with plague bodies you were defying religion and proving you had no faith in the power of god. A dissenting thought is a threat to the power that is held by religious leaders and appropriate actions are taken to ensure the stability of a culture and a people.

Even today our nation is forced to live by religious beliefs from 1,500 years ago (or so) 
Many of our laws are religion based. DADT. Abortion. Death with dignity. Gay marriage.
All of these issues are met with quoted scripture as the main argument why they should not be allowed. I am controlled by religious laws even to this day. If I become terminally ill I am not allowed to end my suffering because of religious law. My dear friends would not be able to visit their partners in ICU at the time of great pain because of religious law. They cannot keep shared property upon the death of their partner because they are not next of kin thought they have shared everything for 40 years. It is religious law.
Religion is power and control of the peoples.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

I believe in a superior being-GOD....I don't believe in organized religion....I believe in my own moral code of right and wrong,I live my life according to my code,if others don't like it-I don't give a flying.Don't try to force your beliefs,morals or laws on me and we'll get along fine.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

chickenista said:


> Religion is a man made structure.
> It started as a way to explain the then unexplainable.. lightning, floods, deaths..
> And it became ritualized. Even rats will ritualize the arrival of food in a cage and repeat the sequence repeatedly in hopes of a food reward.
> Then someone in the tribe was given the role as priest or shaman and took power over the rest of the tribe and their daily rituals.
> ...


Thank you. That is a very good explanation.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

I simply don't believe in any deity, higher power..whatever anyone chooses to call it. I firmly believe we are the here and now and only that, and that is not only fine, but wonderful.

I spent six years in a Methodist school, but even as a child, the teachings just never spoke to me, they just seemed like (sometimes) interesting stories.

I guess my personal philosophies most closely relate to Buddhism/Taoism, but I don't practice as I don't believe in reincarnation etc...


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

I believe the entire Bible - the Old and New combined as a whole - is the inspired Word of God. 

I believe we should prove ... put to the test ... all things, and hold fast to that which is good. 

I also believe there are ways which _seem_ right to man, but the ends thereof are the ways of death.

Quite simply, I believe.


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## doohap (Feb 23, 2003)

Mama Crow said:


> I believe the entire Bible - the Old and New combined as a whole - is the inspired Word of God.
> 
> I believe we should prove ... put to the test ... all things, and hold fast to that which is good.
> 
> ...


Amen! Thanks for posting this, Mama Crow!


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## SpaceCadet12364 (Apr 27, 2003)

Haggis said:


> ...but I rather fancy myself a Frisbitarian. We don't go to a heaven or h**l, we just get thrown up on the roof and can't get down."


:teehee: ound: :goodjob: :rotfl: :grin:


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## doohap (Feb 23, 2003)

Here's a really good video about what I believe. [ame="http://vimeo.com/14727673"]Free Fall[/ame]


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## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

You're welcome, doohap.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

beccachow said:


> I was going to ask what the difference is between paganism and wicca(n?), as I know they both have respect of nature as the central force, or am I mistaken in that?


Wicca is a pagan religion. "Pagan" is just a blanket term for any religions that are not of the three mainstream religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity (the 3 sects who worship the god of Abraham). Some pagan religions are focused around veneration of nature but not all of them are.

.


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## rio002 (Jul 30, 2002)

Paumon--You're exactly right. Normally, when I see a thread regarding any religion subject, I'll read them but won't post because I don't feel like I need to "prove" anything and like everyone else, I really can do without being bashed around. But this thread, with the rules laid out, makes it possible for an actual mature, reasonable discussion to take place, which has been a lovely change when dealing with a sensitive subject as beliefs.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

chickenista said:


> Even today our nation is forced to live by religious beliefs from 1,500 years ago (or so)
> Many of our laws are religion based. DADT. Abortion. Death with dignity. Gay marriage.
> All of these issues are met with quoted scripture as the main argument why they should not be allowed. I am controlled by religious laws even to this day. If I become terminally ill I am not allowed to end my suffering because of religious law. My dear friends would not be able to visit their partners in ICU at the time of great pain because of religious law. They cannot keep shared property upon the death of their partner because they are not next of kin thought they have shared everything for 40 years. It is religious law.
> Religion is power and control of the peoples.


not religious beliefs and laws - Judeo/Christian beliefs and laws. If it were pagan beliefs, none of those things would be illegal.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

thank you Nature Lover, I did NOT even realise that paganism covered a large group od sub-beliefs. I thought it was one to itself. So the Druids were Pagan, but Druid(ism?) was their actual religion?



Thank you all for coming back on track.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Wiccan question...maybe dumb and perhaps stereotypical, but are Wiccans only women? Is Wiccan witchcraft, and aren't men witches referred to as something else?


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## Jena (Aug 13, 2003)

beccachow said:


> REMINDER: This was a nice thread, where EVERYONE could state what they believe. That was the deal: no debating for the purpose of proving something, no bashing, etc. I was having a great time reading this, go out for a bit, come back and all the kids have been smacking each other and need a time out. :nono:
> 
> Seriously: If you cannot resist bashing, TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. The deal was, a few posts would be deleted, then the whole thread would have to go bye bye. Guess where we are now?
> 
> ...


Someone asked a question and I tried to answer it, which I guess was taken to be bashing. That wasn't my intent, I was just trying to answer the question.

Sorry.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

Shygal said:


> not religious beliefs and laws - Judeo/Christian beliefs and laws. If it were pagan beliefs, none of those things would be illegal.


Possibly. But who knows what laws would take their place. No organized religion is free from not so happy things in the past. Just ask Og the caveman...


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

shanzone2001 said:


> Wiccan question...maybe dumb and perhaps stereotypical, but are Wiccans only women? Is Wiccan witchcraft, and aren't men witches referred to as something else?


No Wicca has both priest and priestess, Goddess and God. 

Magic, incantations and rituals to the elements are aspects of Wicca commonly referred to as witchcraft by those not of the faith.

Witches are of either gender. The term "warlock" is actually a Judeo-Christian coined term meaning "oath breaker" within that religious belief not Wicca.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

beccachow said:


> I was going to ask what the difference is between paganism and wicca(n?), as I know they both have respect of nature as the central force, or am I mistaken in that?


Wicca is a subset? I dont know the word, of the Pagan faiths, just like Baptist and Episcopalian come under the Christian faith.
Respect for nature, yes, but the Divine is the central force in more of them. We honor nature as a creation of the Divine. It all fits together.

I don't care for Wicca that much, because a lot of people have used Wicca as a platform for women superiority, that men are inferior, it turns into a lot of man bashing feminist groups rather than what it was intended to be.


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

beccachow said:


> thank you Nature Lover, I did NOT even realise that paganism covered a large group od sub-beliefs. I thought it was one to itself. So the Druids were Pagan, but Druid(ism?) was their actual religion?


Yes. Druidism is a very, very old religion with many gods, older than the patriarchal monotheistic Christianity and Islam. Druidism might be older than monotheistic Judaism but there are no existing records that indicate exactly how far back it goes. Wicca is a very new 20th century neo-pagan duotheistic religion that only started gaining popularity after the 1950's, introduced by Gerald Gardner who gave the religion the name "Wicca".

.


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## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Am I the only one whose head is spinning here? Geez, I feel like I need to get a notebook and write all this down!


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

shanzone2001 said:


> Am I the only one whose head is spinning here? Geez, I feel like I need to get a notebook and write all this down!


Heh. Google is your friend. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

http://www.seekersway.org/seekers_guide/celts_and_druids_1_l.html

.


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## FyredUp (May 22, 2010)

I have traveled many a psychological mile in my search of religion and spiritualism. I was raised a Chrsitian Scientist, later became a member of the Methodist Church, and when that no longer filled my needs I began my search for something to believe in. I just was no longer satisfied with what I had been taught and known my whole life.

I read on all kinds of belief systems. I fell in love with a wonderful, marvelous, sexy, intelligent, woman that made me happier than I have ever been in my entire life. We talked about beliefs and she was raised Catholic but is no longer a Christian, let alone a Catholic. She follows many of the tenets of Wicca but does not call herself a Wiccan. I became intrigued and I follow much the same path now.

What especially speaks to me are the following beliefs of Wicca:

Thou art God/Goddess 
As Above, so Below; as Within, so Without 
Spirit abides in all things; Names have power 
Maintain an attitude of gratitude 
Honor the ancestors, your elders, teachers, and leaders 
All life is sacred 
All acts of love and pleasure are sacred 
Whatever you send out, returns three fold 
Love is the law; Love under will 
Work for the greatest good, an' it harm none

The most intriguing and the clearest to me is that our path is our own and we decide what we will be and do is the following:

As ye harm none, do as ye will.


Let me be clear, I am no expert on Wicca. I am a novice in this belief and learning more as I go. I do know that I am clear in the opinion that the beliefs of others, as long as they harm no one, are not a threat to me. The corollaries to that are also clear, it is not my job to try to convert anyone to my beliefs and it is not my business to denegrate anyone else's beliefs.

I wish others would pay me the same respect. Everyone would be so much happier.


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## krische1012 (May 3, 2009)

Raised Catholic but from the time I was a small child I knew it was wrong. I did not believe in the Christian God. I would try to hide from my Mother so I wouldn't have to go to church, I crossed my fingers during my confirmation because while I wanted to please my family I did not believe a word of what I was saying and couldn't come up with a better way. 

Now I (half jokingly) say that I worship Epona, the Celtic horse goddess. My life revolves around my horses. What they need, what they want, and I never feel so content and at peace with the world when I am relaxing in the field while they graze or reading a book in the barn while I listen to them munch their hay.

As long as we all respect one another it should not matter what we believe.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Jena said:


> Someone asked a question and I tried to answer it, which I guess was taken to be bashing. That wasn't my intent, I was just trying to answer the question.
> 
> Sorry.



No, someone else probably took YOUR answer and ran with it. This is the nature of GC, lol. Questions and answers are permitted, of course, we all want to learn! Sadly, someone might be trying to prove their own point instead of learning or being genuinely curious.  I don't see you on the naughty list. And I love your avatar.


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## Patt (May 18, 2003)

I am a Christian, currently attending an Anglican Church. I was raised in the Church, my father was a minister. I left it for 7 years and was Wiccan. Came back and have been in the Church ever since. I have never been able to wrap my mind around the concept of there being no God or nothing after this life. I have had fascinating discussions over the years though with friends who are atheists. 

I enjoyed this thread, it's nice to see what we all believe.


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## drakkensdottir (Oct 2, 2003)

Beautiful thread, Becca, thank you. :thumb:

I wasn't really raised within a specific faith, though I would occasionally attend Episcopalian (sp?) services with my great-grandparents (which was really just an excuse to spend the weekend with them). My mother dragged us from one genre of belief to another. I think she is still searching, for that matter. For myself, I found the beginnings of my path when she stumbled into the new age side of things in the '80's. That led to Wicca, then to general Paganism, followed by Shamanism and now I find myself pursuing Asatru/Heathenism and very, very happy with it. 

Like Beowolf, I'm a conservative. Like others, I dress in a modest manner, and occasionally wear a cover over my hair. I believe in reincarnation (yes, I've had past life regressions). I believe my animals will be there in the afterlife. I believe in what is considered supernatural and, yes, I believe in the Gods. I believe in the 9 Noble Virtues. And the simplicity of "Harm None". 

I also believe that the God of the Bible is real and genuine. It is not my faith. I've always looked at faith, in regards to deity, in the sense of I belong to my Gods and you belong to yours. I don't know that this makes sense. Best description I ever saw about it was on the show Xena back in the early 90's. One season, Gabrielle had died and Xena had approached Hades (god of the Greek dead) to try and contact her. He explained that Gabrielle wasn't within his "jurisdiction" because she had chosen the faith of the Amazons. Xena needed to reach out to those gods, not him. Made the whole thing crystalline in my mind. 

And now that I've been rambling, convoluted, and probably about as clear as mud.... good night. :happy:

~Drak


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

After reading this thread over and over I think the biggest thing That we should take from this thread is that the main point to all beleifs is to treat each other like we want to be treated...all of them have their seperate rituals but in terms of spirtuality we just need to be kind to each other and I think we are on a path to spiritual freedom and blessings....


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

drakkensdottir said:


> Beautiful thread, Becca, thank you. :thumb:
> 
> I wasn't really raised within a specific faith, though I would occasionally attend Episcopalian (sp?) services with my great-grandparents (which was really just an excuse to spend the weekend with them). My mother dragged us from one genre of belief to another. I think she is still searching, for that matter. For myself, I found the beginnings of my path when she stumbled into the new age side of things in the '80's. That led to Wicca, then to general Paganism, followed by Shamanism and now I find myself pursuing Asatru/Heathenism and very, very happy with it.
> 
> ...


 I am fascinated by your Handle name is that the dragons daughter...Love the northshore.....


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Rainy said:


> I believe that God's Son,Jesus Christ was hung on cross and died on that cross for me and i have ask that Jesus come into my heart and forgive me of my sins. I don't think that there is just one quote "Group" that is going to heaven when God comes for us, i think as long as you believe in Jesus and have ask him into your heart that is all that counts.


Pretty much my feelings too. 
I'm a 'crib Catholic', go to Mass occasionally, go by most of the teachings & believe its the 1st 'church' created. ("Thou are Peter and upon this Rock I will build My Church")
Also believe most religions have gotten away from what they are supposed to do & many are controlled by men who want ways to control others.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

I believe in a master engineer, architect. I don't put any belief in any of the man-made religions.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Jena said:


> Someone asked a question and I tried to answer it, which I guess was taken to be bashing. That wasn't my intent, I was just trying to answer the question.
> 
> Sorry.


As with myself, I wasn't trying to bash or insult anyone..If I did it wasn't intentional..


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

I was brought up Baptist, but not too rigidly, and stopped attending church in my teens when I realized I did not really have a religious faith. I never actively rebelled, or had any religion-related trauma, but just got to the point where it struck me as more likely that people made up gods than that one of them was real.

I am content to live in a society whose moral base is derived from religious teachings, and like everyone else I have adopted that cultural moral code, more or less, though I have dissociated from its source.

It seems to me that those who practice religion do so not just because they are taught this from an early age, or as a result of cultural conformance imperatives, but because belief in a higher power is part of our human condition and we are predisposed to it. That would make me, an unbeliever, the outlier. I have no clear idea how this happened to me and not others, but I am OK with it and accept the result at face value.

I am in a position where I am content with my lack of faith and at the same time feel joy for those in my acquaintance who are deeply fulfilled by their religious beliefs. Good for them, to find such happiness!

In my younger days I liked to argue with religious folks but I have long since stopped that nonsense. I have a live and let live philosophy now. I bridle a bit at the condescension I feel in the presence of those who find out I have no religious faith, so I generally keep this under wraps - still, this is no big deal. I am very happy to live in a time and place where the nonreligious have nothing more to worry about than someone saying "my gosh, I'll pray that God leads you to see the Truth" (which, after all, is meant as kindness) and that the real bad stuff (stocks, the stake, stoning, etc.) is far away.

I'd like to think that I do not worship science either. It seems that nearly everything we thought we knew about the universe a hundred years ago has been found to be wrong or woefully incomplete, and I expect this to repeat going forward. Also I believe that human intellect has a limit, and that we don't have it in us to understand our universe completely. [I imagine us as flatworms in a petri dish, trying to figure out what the dish is made of and what lies beyond it - never gonna happen.] Because of that, I think there always will be mysteries and uncertainties, and a place for religion to fill the void.

I send Christmas cards, and say "Merry Christmas" without much fear of insulting anyone.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

Tiempo said:


> I guess my personal philosophies most closely relate to Buddhism/Taoism, but I don't practice as I don't believe in reincarnation etc...


I don't believe reincarnation is necessarily tied up in either of those but certain schools do emphasize it.

I think one can "practice" Buddhism/Taoism and be an atheist, although certainly some forms venture into belief in the supernatural.

I like the thoughts of Alan Watts (who was also a Christian minister of some sect for a period of time, Methodist?) who I think cuts to the chase of Buddhism/Taoism without getting into any of the superfluous nonsense.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

beccachow said:


> thank you Nature Lover, I did NOT even realise that paganism covered a large group od sub-beliefs. I thought it was one to itself. So the Druids were Pagan, but Druid(ism?) was their actual religion?
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you all for coming back on track.


My understanding also is that pagan simply means any religion other than the Abrahamic ones. So for example Hindus are pagans, Buddhists are pagans, any one practicing a small local indigenous religion (which often take the form of some sort of "nature" or ancestor worship) is a pagan.

I recently read a book on Druidism from which I gathered we simply don't know much about it and likely never will. Druids are mentioned in places in ancient texts, e.g. Caesar wrote about them. Basically the preliterate Celtic peoples of Europe had leaders called Druids, that were some combination of priests/political leaders/diviners, etc.

They had sacred groves, which the Romans often mention destroying.

The Romans put an end to it because they objected to their practice of human sacrifice. So with the conquering of Gaul and Britain the last vestiges of Druidism were snuffed out really before anyone wrote much about it, certainly no one from inside of a culture that actually had Druids or practiced Druidism (if such a thing existed).

Modern day Druidism is an invention of some 18th century (?) English fellow.


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## doohap (Feb 23, 2003)

Scott SW Ohio said:


> . . . I'd like to think that I do not worship science either. It seems that nearly everything we thought we knew about the universe a hundred years ago has been found to be wrong or woefully incomplete, and I expect this to repeat going forward. Also I believe that human intellect has a limit, and that we don't have it in us to understand our universe completely. [I imagine us as flatworms in a petri dish, trying to figure out what the dish is made of and what lies beyond it - never gonna happen.] Because of that, I think there always will be mysteries and uncertainties, and a place for religion to fill the void. . . .


Thank you for this intelligent view of science. I think that science can become, for some, a "religion" of sorts.

Is that O.K. to say, beccachow. Not pointing fingers or trying to offend.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

Good to go, Doohap.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Dwayne Barry said:


> I don't believe reincarnation is necessarily tied up in either of those but certain schools do emphasize it.
> 
> I think one can "practice" Buddhism/Taoism and be an atheist, although certainly some forms venture into belief in the supernatural.
> 
> I like the thoughts of Alan Watts (who was also a Christian minister of some sect for a period of time, Methodist?) who I think cuts to the chase of Buddhism/Taoism without getting into any of the superfluous nonsense.


Thanks Dwayne, I'll look into Alan Watts.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Sorry in advance if this is long and rambling.....sleep deprivation does not sparkle with my brain :yuck:

I was raised Roman Catholic, but around age 14 I realized that what they were teaching me did not resinate with my soul. I spent a year doing intensive research into different religions, trying to find the one that felt "right" to me. 

My 2nd grade CCD teacher told me that because my Father doesn't attend church he was going to Hell. I struggled with that for years, because Dad is a good man who is generous and compassionate, and I could not understand why any God would cast a man like him out simply because he did not go to church. I guess that colored my view of the Catholic church and probably set me up to seek another faith.

I consider myself a Wiccan and try to live daily by the tenents of both the Three-Fold Law and the Wiccan Rede. 

I belive that all Gods are one God, and that as long as a person leads a good life it doesn't matter who they pray to (or if they even pray at all). Nothing irritates me more than someone telling me that even if I live a life full of love and compassion, I'm doomed to an eternity of pain and suffering because I picked the wrong God(s) to pray to. Does that mean if I pray to the "right" God(s) but live a life of hatred and scorn I'm good to go? 

I'm marrying a wonderful Christian man in the Spring.... he attends church regularly and tries to follow the example of Jesus in his life. We both respect each other's religion and are okay with the path the other has chosen to follow. I also strongly encourage my two DD's (who are 9) to attend church with him and to learn as much as they can about Christianity. We discuss other faiths - my youngest DD is adopted from India so we talk about the Hindu faith, they understand the basics of the Jewish faith, they have kids books on the basics of Buddhism and Islam and ancient Greek / Roman Gods, etc. I want them to have as much information on their options as possible, so that when they are old enough to choose they can make an informed decision as to which religious path they will follow.


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## rj_in_MA (Apr 27, 2004)

Awesome thread!

I tend to fluctuate somewhere between Deism and Atheism. Depends upon the day, but I don't really concern myself much with it anyways. I have a full appreciation for life and all it's challenges, so I feel fulfilled whether there's a creator or not.
I rarely poke my nose into religious discussions, tho. It's rarely worth the backlash...

-rj


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Dwayne, any recommendations on which Watts book to start with?


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

> There is no past and there is no future.


How sad to believe that. I believe in both a past and a future.
Raised Protestant, became Agnostic for about 20 years, now LDS (Mormon)

My beliefs make me a better person in the here and now and in the life to come. and if by some chance there is no life to come, then I'll just cease to exist and never know it myself but I was still a better person here and now for my beliefs.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

I don't believe anything. :rock:


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## chickenslayer (Apr 20, 2010)

I don't believe, I know


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

"I think there always will be mysteries and uncertainties, and a place for religion to fill the void."

That would be good if the void was actually FILLED by the religion. There's a difference between filling a void and claiming a void has been filled. EVERY religion claims to have the truth. I think part of growing up is learning that we can't always get everything we want, and that includes knowing the answer to every question. Honest people are willing to admit when the answer isn't known, and mature people are willing to face the "uncertainty" of not knowing all the answers.


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## moldy (Mar 5, 2004)

I am amazed at how polite and considerate this thread (for the most part) has stayed. Gives me a little more.. Pardon the pun.. faith in people!

The discussions on religion and power have been very interesting to me, and in a lot of ways, absolutely correct. Religion has for the most part, made me an incredibly ineffective follower of Christ. I am a child of God - a Bible believer - and usually attend a Baptist church. I realize that I will never find any organized church whose mission statement exactly follows my beliefs. I am more interested in the spirit (attitude, milleau) in the individual church than I am the tenets of the denomination. Not to say that those tenets don't have some bearing on whether I choose to faithfully attend that church.

Most of you are not cradle-to-grave anythings - pagen, Baptist, Catholic, whatever. That's great!! I don't believe that you can have a true faith by just following in your parent's relegious footsteps without testing, intellectualizing, and stuggling with your own thoughts and emotions about God, morality, and the afterlife. I was raised in the church, but really didn't have faith (I had belief, but not relationship) until my mid-20s.

Religion (or the organized church) has always been like living under a crushing load of condemnation. I know I'm a sinner, I know I will never (without the sacrifice of Christ) be "good enough" for God. But I have accepted Christ's sacrifice for me - my sins are forgiven and more importantly, God has forgotten them. I still screw up, and ask for forgiveness every day - and God is faithful to give it. But the church has a way of inducing guilt in me over things that I have already been forgiven for. I think that that guilt is one of satan's major ways of keeping Christians ineffective. How can I live an abundant happy life if I am mired in my own self-induced punishment? I was raised in some very judgemental churches and self-condemnation is something I have to always guard against. 

God has taken care of me in so many ways - ways that for a long time I could not see. To me, there is freedom and love in a relationship with Christ. In religion, there is self-doubt (at best) and condemnation. I still attend church - but it is a church where there are folks that smoke, that have tattoos, that are living together unmarried. It is not a "white-washed tomb" that is dead inside. We worship God, and we know what He has done for us.

(Sorry if this is rambling - I'm writing in between batches of Christmas cookies).


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## drakkensdottir (Oct 2, 2003)

Bigkat80 said:


> I am fascinated by your Handle name is that the dragons daughter...Love the northshore.....


Hi, Bigkat. Yes, it means "dragon's daughter".  It's a handle that's been with me since shortly after I started along my path, so somewhere around 25 years. Dragons have been a big part of my life for a long time. 

And the northshore is lovely.  Though I think you got the better deal -- you're up by Shreveport, right? Beautiful area with all those rolling hills!!

~Drak


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

moldy said:


> I am amazed at how polite and considerate this thread (for the most part) has stayed. Gives me a little more.. Pardon the pun.. faith in people!
> 
> 
> (Sorry if this is rambling - I'm writing in between batches of Christmas cookies).


A) Yes, I am very proud of my GC family.  This has been fabulous.

B) Mail me cookies. Now. !!!


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## naturelover (Jun 6, 2006)

Yep, this is being an awesome thread! - (maybe one for a sticky or the vault?) - thanks Beccachow for starting it, and everyone else for sharing. :thumb:




bluemoonluck said:


> I'm marrying a wonderful Christian man in the Spring.... he attends church regularly and tries to follow the example of Jesus in his life. We both respect each other's religion and are okay with the path the other has chosen to follow. I also strongly encourage my two DD's (who are 9) to attend church with him and to learn as much as they can about Christianity. We discuss other faiths - my youngest DD is adopted from India so we talk about the Hindu faith, they understand the basics of the Jewish faith, they have kids books on the basics of Buddhism and Islam and ancient Greek / Roman Gods, etc. *I want them to have as much information on their options as possible, so that when they are old enough to choose they can make an informed decision as to which religious path they will follow*.


Bluemoonluck, first of all, CONGRATULATIONS on your coming marriage!

Secondly, kudos to you on the above, how wonderful for your children. In truth I wish all parents could/would provide their children with that kind of spiritual/religious education. Just my opinion but I feel that if more people everywhere had a fuller, more rounded education in such matters starting at an early age it would help promote so much greater social understanding and acceptance between people everywhere.

.


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## Valmai (Sep 29, 2004)

What a wonderful thread! Congratulations and thank you to all of you. If only some of you had been my sunday school teachers I might have some appreciaton for organized religion. Mum was lapsed catholic, Dad was church of England, neither went to church but did pack us kids off to sunday school to learn and decide for ourselves. I was a problem for the teachers, I questioned everything and never got reasonable answers. I believe in the Golden Rule, I believe that good will overcome bad (eventually) I believe we should be judged by how we live our lives and how we treat others NOT by which god we do or do not worship. I can never accept that a bad person who believes in the "right" god will go to heaven while a good person who does not believe in god, or believes in the "wrong" god will go to hell.


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

drakkensdottir said:


> Hi, Bigkat. Yes, it means "dragon's daughter".  It's a handle that's been with me since shortly after I started along my path, so somewhere around 25 years. Dragons have been a big part of my life for a long time.
> 
> And the northshore is lovely.  Though I think you got the better deal -- you're up by Shreveport, right? Beautiful area with all those rolling hills!!
> 
> ~Drak


Well I am from there until recently I just Moved to Vicksburg MS for a promotion and more and bigger rolling hills...I go to NOLA alot now its closer than when i was in Shreveport...My Oldest Son is fascinated by DraGONS HE has always been obsessed with them...they are a magical mystical majestic creature and as such I dont have an issue with his endearing love of the things....


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## drakkensdottir (Oct 2, 2003)

Bigkat80 said:


> Well I am from there until recently I just Moved to Vicksburg MS for a promotion and more and bigger rolling hills...I go to NOLA alot now its closer than when i was in Shreveport...My Oldest Son is fascinated by DraGONS HE has always been obsessed with them...they are a magical mystical majestic creature and as such I dont have an issue with his endearing love of the things....


I love Vicksburg... I will drive all the way there to avoid any other Mississippi river crossing. The rest of them make me white-knuckle nervous.  

I couldn't tell you when Dragons became such a focal point in my life, they've just always been there. Like your son, I've been a wee bit obsessed with them for a very long time. Glad you don't have an issue with them. :thumb:

~Drak


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## Bigkat80 (Jan 16, 2007)

drakkensdottir said:


> I love Vicksburg... I will drive all the way there to avoid any other Mississippi river crossing. The rest of them make me white-knuckle nervous.
> 
> I couldn't tell you when Dragons became such a focal point in my life, they've just always been there. Like your son, I've been a wee bit obsessed with them for a very long time. Glad you don't have an issue with them. :thumb:
> 
> ~Drak


They are one of my favorite mystical creatures I like the combination of grace and strength...its rather powerful to nimbly be something that big and move with that power and be that swanlike graceful...


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

naturelover said:


> Bluemoonluck, first of all, CONGRATULATIONS on your coming marriage!
> 
> Secondly, kudos to you on the above, how wonderful for your children. In truth I wish all parents could/would provide their children with that kind of spiritual/religious education. Just my opinion but I feel that if more people everywhere had a fuller, more rounded education in such matters starting at an early age it would help promote so much greater social understanding and acceptance between people everywhere.
> 
> .


Thank you! Its been a long time coming, lots of ups and downs leading up to this, but I'm very VERY happy to have a wonderful, caring, considerate man who as an added bonus isn't worried about our religious differences creating a rift in our relationship.

I was an archaeology major in college and took a lot of religion classes not to mention studied the religions of other cultures in anthropology classes, and it really helped me broaden my world view. 

So many parents are afraid if they let their children investigate faiths other than their own, they won't follow their parent's religious path. I don't know if that is true or not, but I'm more concerned about my children knowing their choices and deciding which path is right for them than I am about anything else. 

Its a big wide world out there, lots of religions and lots of wonderful people of all faiths exist. As long as my girls grow up to be good people, I've done my job.


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## Jenn (Nov 9, 2004)

I was baptised Lutheran in the small SD church where my parents were married. My parents raised me as an atheist. My mother is now a Buddhist and my dad is a nonreligious married a second time to a preacher's daughter.

I am now- what? A free thinker? I pray at times though uncertain to whom (mostly prayers of thanks but some requests for safety), I sing hymns and experience a burst of joy when singing 'How Great Thou Art' while enjoying the beauty of this lovely planet (ie while walking the dogs), I do not go to church but meet with freethinkers a few times a month more to complain about prejudice or discrimination against us by local fundies than to be spiritual, direct my children to make their own decisions with lots of information, do not really believe in a deity. 

I believe with Marx that religion is the opiate of the masses, and I can see what a comfort true belief could be to me. But as with opiates I deny myself that comfort- I have left the garden of Eden and can not return. I also feel unwilling to join any club which would torment or exclude some or excuse villains with a few words of professed faith.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

I am a Christian and am mighty thankful that Jesus Christ loved me enough to die for me, and that He shed His blood to wash my sins away.

I have attended Baptist churches most of my life.I don't agree with everything that the Baptist denomination says.I do believe in the Bible,and believe it to be God's Inspired Word.I believe it from the first word to the last word, and everything is, as it says it is.

Sure, there are many things in the Bible I don't understand.Things like the sun standing still for a day.If God said it stayed still,it stayed.

Oh and the earths age not seeming to be quite as old as scientists think it is,you know with all those zillion year old rocks, and almost as old dinosaur bones,I don't worry about that to much, because this God we are dealing with, brought everything into existence in less than a week,and a few zillion year old rocks and bones for laughs:smiley-laughing013:would have been a breeze...Adam an Eve?..Grown?..Go figure.

1Corinthians 1:27 (King James Version)

27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty.

MERRY CHRISTMAS FOLKS,AND HAPPY BIRTHDAY JESUS!!!!:bow:


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## doohap (Feb 23, 2003)

EDDIE BUCK said:


> I am a Christian and am mighty thankful that Jesus Christ loved me enough to die for me, and that He shed His blood to wash my sins away.
> 
> I have attended Baptist churches most of my life.I don't agree with everything that the Baptist denomination says.I do believe in the Bible,and believe it to be God's Inspired Word.I believe it from the first word to the last word, and everything is, as it says it is.
> 
> ...


What Eddie Buck said! :thumb:


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

I myself am, shortly, a Christian. I take the bible literally (in context) and I am a creationist. I am an environmentalist because I believe that it is the best way to express my loyalty to God... Call me a hippie if you will, but heck, what's wrong with caring?
My favorite Books of the Bible include proverbs, Psalms, and Romans. I wonder if that is because the are the ones I read most... Heh. Anyways, not much good at writing about this... Also I noticed that this thread has had 8 deleted posts in it's 4 pages... 
~HF


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> . . . I'd like to think that I do not worship science either. It seems that nearly everything we thought we knew about the universe a hundred years ago has been found to be wrong or woefully incomplete, and I expect this to repeat going forward.


Ahh, but along the way, science has given us microprocessors, and global positioning systems, and artificial human hearts ... it hasn't all been pointless stumbling around in the dark! 

I acknowledge that errors have been made and will continue to be made (I collect old medical texts, and find them amusing) but I also think we'll continue to amass knowledge, unless our species manages to annihilate itself!


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

It's been so long since I have posted here that I'm taking the lazy way out and posting under husband's name. I am also an atheist...if someone insist that I believe in something I humorously state I'm a Meist...someone who believes that all power, or the lack thereof, comes from within self.

There are no options to living on a shared planet, it is best to do our best to respect others, this should include their beliefs or lack thereof. Making the Golden Rule idea sound. History shows that there are no wars until one group of people decide another group of people have gone against a set of beliefs. History also shows large masses of people believe their beliefs are worthly of the fight, personally I see that as a guarantee that there will always be wars.

As others have stated in this thread, I'm okay with the idea that living this moment as if it is all life will ever have to offer works well for me, and when life has those moments when there is fear for the next moment...yes indeed, I can see the advantage to turning it all over to a "higher power" -- and I have the envy of those who do...that would be soooo very much easier than the knowledge that sometimes I just do not have all the answers and will hopefully choose to live with the consequences of that knowledge.

Marlene


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## dahliaqueen (Nov 9, 2005)

FyredUp said:


> Thou art God/Goddess
> As Above, so Below; as Within, so Without
> Spirit abides in all things; Names have power
> Maintain an attitude of gratitude
> ...


Elegant.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

I believe that knowing the unknowable is impossible and having a "belief" in something that one does not know is silly.

I would describe my feelings about God as "hope", not really belief. I suppose I would characterize myself as an agnostic with strong hopes that a God exists. I am also 'pro-religion' because I do believe that having faith and following the tenets of christianity has a positive effect on people and on society as a whole.

I am hoping one day that my 'hope' can become something more substantial.


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

Tiempo said:


> Dwayne, any recommendations on which Watts book to start with?


I've only read some of them. I liked The Way of Zen and Tao: The Watercourse Way.

I've read The Book. It was O.K., maybe missed the mark a bit.

Lot's of interesting out takes from his old talks (he died in the early '70s) on Youtube put to video/music.

I like these:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGoTmNU_5A0[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyihpoVK7Fk[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdD3o_2cfD8[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWVXRo04Vns[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SgSDv7rG7c[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMheNLq97D4[/ame]


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## Dwayne Barry (Jan 9, 2009)

mnn2501 said:


> How sad to believe that. I believe in both a past and a future.
> Raised Protestant, became Agnostic for about 20 years, now LDS (Mormon)
> 
> My beliefs make me a better person in the here and now and in the life to come. and if by some chance there is no life to come, then I'll just cease to exist and never know it myself but I was still a better person here and now for my beliefs.


What do you find sad about it? I can't see how realizing we live in a continuous series of moments and that the past/future are simply concepts in our mind that don't exist as reality is sad.

It would be equivalent to being sad because the sun rises in the East or the stars are configured as they are in the night sky or that we need to breath oxygen to exist, etc.

Being sad about the unalterable way things are is utterly pointless.

I'm not sure we are talking about the same thing. You seem to be referring to the future as in "life after death".


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## lilmizlayla (Aug 28, 2008)

I believe in the Christ almighty...as the son of God. I don't however, prescribe to any particular religion .


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## Guest (Dec 20, 2010)

kirkmcquest said:


> I believe that knowing the unknowable is impossible and having a "belief" in something that one does not know is silly.


Whereas knowing the knowable and believing in Someone whom one DOES know is wonderful. :bouncy:


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

drakkensdottir said:


> I love Vicksburg... I will drive all the way there to avoid any other Mississippi river crossing. The rest of them make me white-knuckle nervous.
> 
> I couldn't tell you when Dragons became such a focal point in my life, they've just always been there. Like your son, I've been a wee bit obsessed with them for a very long time. Glad you don't have an issue with them. :thumb:
> 
> ~Drak


I think you would like the weather vane I just picked up about a month or so ago.. Instead of the typical horse , chicken, etc on top of it, this one has a dragon. 
I will eventually post pics for you once I get the copper and brass cleaned up. It is in pretty rough shape at the moment.. But it may take me a while till I get to it..


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## hobbyfarmer (Oct 10, 2007)

I believe in God and salvation through Christ. I believe in the Bible as a literal text, and I believe in a personal relationship with Him through prayer. I'm a long time member of the Methodist church but currently attending a Baptist church. I don't get all that hung up on doctrine because I believe religion is absolutely the polar opposite of true spirituality. I enjoy church for the sake of fellowship only. I wasn't raised in any particular church but did attend sporadically with both sets of grandparents as a child. 

I'm raising my children in church and with prayer at home but I encourage them to ask questions. I still ask questions. I home school with a Christian curriculum but teach also the "alternative" theories of creation and evolution. I do tell the kids that I am a Creationist but I don't want to deprive them of the opportunity to scrutinize all the info available to them and choose for themselves. I don't believe (this is just me personally) that a child benefits from never having to test his or her own faith as they grow older. I think those tests only make one stronger.

For me, everything, everyday, boils down to "faith". Faith that there is a God. Faith that he has already bought my salvation and granted me everlasting life. Faith that I can't explain all the details, but faith to know - without a doubt- that I don't have to "get" all the details. Much like my kids don't have to understand how payroll taxes work in order to know that they will be fed and clothed. My Heavenly Father will provide all I need to know, as I need it. Child-like faith is something I didn't really have as a child, but do now. I truly, whole-heartedly BELIEVE.


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## drakkensdottir (Oct 2, 2003)

beowoulf90 said:


> I think you would like the weather vane I just picked up about a month or so ago.. Instead of the typical horse , chicken, etc on top of it, this one has a dragon.
> I will eventually post pics for you once I get the copper and brass cleaned up. It is in pretty rough shape at the moment.. But it may take me a while till I get to it..


I'll look forward to seeing those pics!! I found one that's on my wish list for down the road. It's this one: 

http://swen-products.amazonwebstore...cx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JJaU0lw3L.jpg

~Drak


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

drakkensdottir said:


> I'll look forward to seeing those pics!! I found one that's on my wish list for down the road. It's this one:
> 
> http://swen-products.amazonwebstore...cx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51JJaU0lw3L.jpg
> 
> ~Drak


Nope, this is a full body, not a silhouette. Hopefully I can get pictures of it over the holidays. But it won't be polished/cleaned up by then..


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## drakkensdottir (Oct 2, 2003)

beowoulf90 said:


> Nope, this is a full body, not a silhouette. Hopefully I can get pictures of it over the holidays. But it won't be polished/cleaned up by then..


Ooooohhh!!!! I have GOT to see that!! Sounds great. Oh, and you know, before and after pics are always good. 

~Drak


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## cjb (May 2, 2006)

I believe in and live for Jesus Christ.

In the end, I'm betting that we are very surprised by how much we got 'wrong'. We'll probably be smacking our foreheads saying "OH! the Catholics were right about X, and the protestants were right about Y and.... oh man... we all got Z wrong!"


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

drakkensdottir said:


> Ooooohhh!!!! I have GOT to see that!! Sounds great. Oh, and you know, before and after pics are always good.
> 
> ~Drak


Ok, I posted them in another thread titled Dragon weather vane


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

This is a very nice thread and I have enjoyed reading it.

The very strange thing is, I can agree somewhat with everyone - wonder what that makes me? 

Although, I attended a small Baptist Church as a child, it was mostly because that and a Church of Christ was all we had. We attended both for revivals, and the Church of Christ folks came to the Baptist for night church, as they seldom had a preacher so only had Sunday morning Sunday school. The only difference was the Church of Christ didn't have a piano - of course, we seldom had anyone to play our piano.

My family didn't have a church life, as such, God was just a fact of life. It wasn't something we had to believe in to make real - it just was. We all questioned many things about established religion - but we have always been a questioner of things. My daughter gave her Christian school headaches sometimes.

I do not take the Bible literally - especially the Old Testament. I think it is a collection of stories to tell the history of the Hebrew people and their relationship with God, you know things may have gotten a little skewed. Also, I'm thinking being men, they did some things they should not have done but then said, 'God told me to do it'. All in all, I do believe in the essence of the Bible and I take the teachings of Jesus very seriously - have my doubts about Paul's agenda.

I do not hold God responsible for the evil men do in his name.

I don't bother God with requests for material things - I pray for strength and wisdom. I once read the Jewish people have a saying to 'enjoy the good days and endure the bad days' - I try to do that.

I believe in magic - not only the magic of Christ - all kinds. I know people have special abilities - some say it's being a witch, some just recognize it as an ability. I believe God will hold us accountable for what we do to this earth. I believe in old souls - I have known too many of them. I don't believe now, or one life, is all there is to it. Hopefully, the hereafter is not streets of gold - that sounds boring and too materialistic for me. 

I came to my concrete belief in a force of Good - I call God - by a round about way. Being the old curmudgeon I am, I am very concerned about the way things are going in this country - the world at large - but especially this country. At first, I thought all the things I considered hurtful to our society was just done for financial gain, but after thinking more, I decided it wasn't just about money. It was evil - and if there was evil, there has to be Good.

One thing I thought while reading all these posts is that most of us do believe in being kind, honest, respectful - so why isn't our world better? Maybe we could begin working together with the things on which we do agree rather than letting the points of disagreement divide us?


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## rio002 (Jul 30, 2002)

Trixie--Years back after searching out several different religions, I came to the same place you are in a sense. I could agree with parts of each religion and each seemed to be founded on the same principles at their core, they just seemed to be stated differently. I too believe in old souls, and hope that this life isn't It, I hope if there is a heaven that it is whatever we create it to be after we pass on, lol I suppose kind of like Burger Kings "Have it your way" type of heaven. But all of these questions I had and the answers I could find lead me to know that I am Agnostic, comfortably on the fence


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I believe in a higher power, but not organized religion.
I do not try to name my god but trust that "they' are there. (I used they as not sure if my god has a gender and do not want to use a incorrect term.)
I believe this higher power is not any particular sect,religion,creed,color,race,political affiliation etc. they just are and omnipresent.
I believe as long as I do what I feel is right I will be in favor of my god. 
I believe my god is all powerful. 
I believe my god is beyond human comprehension in many ways.

I do find wisdom in the bible as well as other religious teachings/books though again religion on a organized level/basis no, whatever the religion.

like others have stated I believe that religion in that form is a tool used as population control. again any religion.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

I spent the first four decades of my life in a serious religion. Worked long hours to save myself and others. But eventually didnât understand why that was even necessary, or whether I wanted the results of being saved.

You are supposed to want to avoid hell and go to heaven after being saved. What exactly will I be doing there? What will be my living conditions? If I donât know anything about it, why make the effort to get something I may not want?

My mom was recently trying to reclaim my soul so Iâd go to her version of heaven. I told her I thought she shouldnât like living in a mobile home. It isnât good enough. She should want to be saved from her lowly status and have a mansion on the hill.

My point was that we each know at which status level we're comfortable, and what we like and what we donât, and as long as we arenât hurting others, it should be okay to pursue our interests. If I like living a "lower classed" life digging in the dirt to grow some food, that should be the reward I get in an afterlife regardless of whether Iâm saved.

Shouldnât matter whoâs beliefs are right or wrong, but rather what people want. Getting a reward you donât want is hell.


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