# What kind of cabinet ?



## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

I am wanting to get another cabinet for my Singer 401A I bought. The one that came with it is flaking off veneer pretty bad. 
Does it have to be a singer cabinet ? How about if I found one of the neat old wooden bases that came with the treadles, could the 401 A fit in that? 
I would not have need of the treadle of course, but the foot pedal could just be put on the foot couldn't it? 
I just love the way those old treadle cabinets look.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

There are some specific concerns with putting a "newer" Singer into an older cabinet, specifically with the 401 series and the 500 series.

1. you need a long enough opening. If it has a lift assist then it's long enough, if not, then it's too short (you remove the lift assist to get enough room for the back end of the 401.

Then you need to modify the front. There will be a routered wood lip, and it needs to be partially removed for the 401. It's too long and the extended base of the 401 won't clearn.

Then, you need to get special front supports to put on that front part (because what you cut off was the support for the older machines. I have some if you get to that point.

AND - you need to make sure your treadle cabinet is for a SINGER - most of the treadles are MFG specific, so if it was made for a machine made WHITE - a SINGER won't normally line up correctly. As you move into later made machines, they started to get more and more liek Singer, so some newer styles will work.

HOWEVER - the pins are not all the same, so even if they are in the right location and the hole is correct, you may need to get a different style pin so they will work (some are fatter, some longer, some have "waists" for the set screws to lock into).

I took this a while ago to show the issue with older vs new singer cabinets. The 401 takes the "newer" setup. 

This is the "older" style lip 










and what the 401 needs










This is the problem - that longer "under bed" hits that wood ledge on the olde cabinet. Those two notches line up with the brackets for the newer style - but you can make that change easy enough.










The other problem is the length of the machine, Here is it, taking up the whole opening.










This is an older style treadle cabinet - notice the black part on the end of the hole, that is the lift assist. If you remove it, a 401 will fit (hinges are correct too) as long you modify the front edge.










This one does not have a lift assist, the front wood support covers that part up and would need to be modified quite a bit. 










You can make just about any machine fit in any cabinet though- just depends on your woodworking skills. Some basically would require making a new top.

I have a lot of different Singer cabinets - part of the collection. Have quite a few non-Singer ones too. . .


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

I bought 4 old Singer cabinets off of Ebay. One's out in the shop waiting to be refinished, one houses my 201-2, another my 15-91, and my favorite one has my 401a in it.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

What a wonderfully informative post Macybaby! Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my question. The pictures were a great help too! 
I will look around and keep my eyes open for a cabinet. If i find one of the old treadle bases cheaply regardless of the condition, I might get that to experiment with first.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

Love your set up CJ. That's a very nice cabinet you have for the 401A. 
Was it local pick up on the ebay cabinets or did you have to pay shipping?
I also looked at your blog and i have a question...when can I move in? LOL
Seriously your place is beautiful and love your quilts. :thumb:


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

So if I understand correctly, the older style cabinet the machine rests on that lip. In the newer style the notches on the edge of the machine slip into the brackets on the lip.


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

I had to pay shipping Flowergurl. That cabinet was a bit on the pricey side, but I so loved it! The others are not queen ann style and are oak, they were under a $100 with shipping, so not bad at all for an all wood piece of furniture.

My 401 rests on top of the "lip" in front, but it's in the brackets on the back. I think my hubby had to slightly modify the lip to make it fit.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

I have that same cabinet with the Queen Anne legs, and am also putting a 401A in it.

I was looking for a picture of my favorite cabinet, have not found it yet, but found some other Singer cabinets (these are all in my collection) 

This one is similar, it has a 301 in it. If you take out the 301 cradle, a 401 fits perfect. 










This is a fancier, 7 drawer Singer treadle cabinet










This is a more basic style (updated version) This cabinet housed the machine I learned to sew on, and though the machine was long gone, I'm happy to have got this "end table" from my sister! It has a 201 in it now. 










This is a newer style, and the 401 would fit fine. This one now has my 500 Rocketeer in it. If you are looking at cabinet without a machine, be aware that some were made to fit the 99 - and will have a MUCH smaller opening. They are rather uncommon, but are out there. 










This is a neat desk style, I have several of them.










And a few more Singer cabinets. The "plain" one has a really nice 99K in it (so it's got the smaller opening)










This is another cabinet that fits the 99 size machine










This is your basic Singer 5 drawer treadle cabinet










This is another desk style.










Another basic one - different legs than the other that it looks very similar to


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

this is also a very special Singer cabinet - the most expensive one I own.










And it has the very rare Lift!











Here it is - my favorite cabinet!



















And another I had to search for - I'll be putting my 319 in it - a funky machine for a funky cabinet.



















This one is also neat,










Where the similar looking one has rounded drawers, this one has round cover and straight drawers. This one is the older style.















This is another Singer cabinet, it came with a 401A inside, DH put his Pfaff in it.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

And some of the parlor cabinets (treadle stuff is inside)










This one is a bit different - a newer style than the above. There is also a really fancy version of this one, with embossed trim. 




















This is my oldest Singer cabinet - If I remember correctly, its from 1868. 










It's got a very early, Mother of Pearl Singer 12 inside. The cabinet sides fold down.



And one more treadle that is really neat - though not a Singer. 

This was sold by Sears with a Davis made Minnesota A inside. 

Yea - this IS a treadle table. Originally there would be a lift off top to cover up the machine opening - that was long gone so I'll be making a new one.






























BTW - my house IS overrun with machines and cabinets, but DH is building me a new home for them.


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## CJ (May 10, 2002)

I think I've just died and gone to heaven. WOW!


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

Thanks for the tour of cabinets and machines, loved seeing pics. 

At least I am learning what to look for. I saw this add and realized it's the old style lip on a treadle sewing machine.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

With the front lip modified (cut narrower) or removed and the other brackets added, that cabinet should fit a 401A - you can see the lift assist behind the machine. It's a big spring bracket to help you lift the machine up in place. They are heavy girls

looks line a pretty decent back clamp Singer 66 "Red Eye" I think everyone that likes old singers should have one of those - maybe not the older back clamp model, but for sure a Red Eye 66


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

That's good to know in case I find a better one. This ones in really rough shape and they want over $100.00 for it.


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## RebelDigger (Aug 5, 2010)

I love my back clamp Singer 66. I always have a bit of trouble changing feet out on side clampers, but never with the back clamper. Of course, I have a complete set of attachements for it or I might not be as happy with it LOL.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

An interesting thing with the back clamp - Singer made several changes to the attachments while that machine was available. I've got four different sets of back clamp attachments.

My favorite is this one, it's one of the early sets.










The set has the tucker with the shape that Greist continued to use - very different from what Singer moved to. It also has the seperate hemmer feet. (BTW, at one time Greist worked for Singer)

love the ruffler! I've also got a few other rufflers of this style with other machine names on them.










This is another set, also showing changes in design. Singer obtained the patent for the "adjustable hemmer" when they acquired Wheeler Wilson - so you no longer see a set of different sized hemmers included in those that came with Singer machines. 










This is a later set, with the tucker and ruffler similar to what Singer offered going forward. The ruffler is a bit different - the main change is with the tucker. Singer pretty much kept with that style tucker going forward. 










This is the "newest" style ruffler that was sold for the back clamp. It only has two settings instead of the four that the next update to the rufflers have. The rest of the attachments are similar to those above.











for comparison - this is a much later set - after Singer stopped including the tucker and edge guide as part of the standard set - and included the gather and edge stitcher foot. This one also has the multi-slot binder with guide pins. 










But the true fun is in the non-standard attachments - however there weren't many of them made for the Back Clamp machines.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

Macy you are wellspring of info on these machines. :nanner::bouncy:
I've got lots of attachments, but I have no idea what they are,... or which machine they fit. 
Once I get the 401A set up, I will have to take some pics and maybe you can help me decide what everything is. Right now I am in the works of a remodel in my sewing areas and things are all jumbled up right now.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

That's what the purpose of my collection is - to help others figure out what they have - and enjoy their vintage machines. 

I hope to learn how to use the attachments some day too LOL!!


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

Macybaby will this cabinet work? SHe didn't post a pic of the front edge. She says the machine is a Singer sewing machine in cabinet, Model 4830C. Another lady wants the sewing machine without the cabinet. I want the cabinet if it will work for my 401A without much alteration.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

Flowergirl, that is a very different type cabinet, so the "front edge" part does not apply.

I got one very similar with a Singer 534 (also an open arm) If this is the same, the machine sits on wood tray, and the tray is what folds down (so no hinges mounted to the machine). The problem is there is a bracket that hooks into a specific spot on the machine that the 401A does not have. I also think the 401 may be a taller machine (the underside part) so the bed of the machine may sit higher than the bed of the cabinet. 

So you would need to measure the depth to see if it's deep enough for the 401A, and if it is, then you would need to figure out how to firmly attach the 401A. Unless you don't plan on tipping it down.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

This is the underside of the cabinet (taken before I took it apart to refinish -so I could get it back together). It shows the wood tray that the machine is mounted to.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

That one got converted and is now used for my main machine.










We removed the tipping part and put in supports for a fixed shelf that is the exact height needed for my machine to fit on with the extended bed that I had DH make for it. I slide that out of the way to get at the bobbin. DH also cut the front flap to fit the contours of this machine. 

It works very well for me.



















The bobbin winder is down near the plug - so I needed access to that end so kept it open. The wider leg base also gives me plenty of room to sit. Some of the cabinet have the machine rather far forward, so you can't easily sit lined up with the needle - well at least not if you are a bigger bottomed girl like me LOL!!

Look at the cabinet you posted - and imagine where your legs will by if you want to sit directly in front of the needle.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

All very good points, thanks Macybaby! I also see that sitting down in the cabinet it would be hard to use the free arm on my sewing machine.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

When I need to use the free arm (which is rare since I don't sew clothing much anymore) I lift mine out of the cabinet and slide the extension all the way over and sit the machine on top. Since my "extension" is a piece of cabinet grade 3/4" plywood, it can handle the weight with no issues.

I've never tried sewing open arm with the machine in a hole -


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

Another thing to consider - how close you like to sit to the machine. As I've gotten older, I like having it much closer to my nose (eyesight thing).

I have my Pfaff embroidery machine sitting on top of a closed cabinet, so it's sitting about 3" higher than "normal" and is also farther forward than it would sit if mounted in a cabinet. I really like it that way, as I do non-computerized machine embroidery with it, and need to really see what I'm doing.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

I decided to go with a desk to set for 401A on. I don't have to worry about it fitting in the cabinet hole, so no modifications needed for that. It's got lots of drawers to put sewing stuff in, and it's an older desk as well.

What do you think? These are pics they posted. I go get it on Saturday.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

I like that desk! Love having the drawers on the left instead of the right. 

And you can also take the machine off and use it as a work surface.

Word of warning - if you have cats. I had my Pfaff embroidery machine sitting on a cloth cover on a flat desk surface. It's been fine for a few months - and two days ago I came upstairs and found the cloth pulled way sideways, and the machine almost off the edge of the desk. 

So now that machine is NOT sitting on top of the cloth. I had planned to make a fitted cover (one with sewn corners) that could not be easily removed, but didn't have that done yet. 

There would have a been lots and lots of tears had my embroidery machine hit the floor - it would not have survived the trip.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

Oh yikes how scarey Macybaby! I'm sure glad it managed to stay on the desk. 
My husband read your post and said "Lots of tears and a dead cat. " 
LOL really he wouldn't hurt a fly.
No cats here, just 2 boston terriers. 
I am thinking the desk and the 401A are from about the same time period.
The desk is great shape. Happy Valentines day to me! :grin:


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

Well the search is back on...i went to pick up the desk and the picture looked much better than it did in person. Don't you just hate that! It wasn't nice and shiny like the pic and it had chips of wood out of the top and one of the drawers. One of the drawers at some point had been glued back together and huge globs of glue were in the drawer. 
It was kinda wobbly too, so I'm not sure how well it would have worked to set a sewing machine on. 
Now, i had to tell them I didn't want it. I just hate doing that, but i am not going to buy something i won't be happy with. 
They weren't to happy that I changed my mind, but I can't help it.


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

I know how that goes - but if people would be more accurate in their appraisals of what they have - it wouldn't happen.

I think they do hope to get someone there who will feel too uncomfortable to say "no" after all the work of making arrangements to meet and see it. 

What I have found - the older ones are better - less likely to be particle board - and the early particle board ones have better laminate on them than the newer ones. I'm not sure about the time frame - maybe 1950/1960/1970. I know "newer" ones usually have separating laminate, wobbly, loose joints and are just "light" overall. But for me, something from 1970's IS newer. I am usually after items pre 1950.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

My daughter went with me to an estate yard sale yesterday bright and early.
I found a sewing cabinet that will work with my 401A.  The cabinet was marked $20.00 and it had a quilting ruler laying on it that wasn't marked.
I asked how much for the ruler and they said it comes with the cabinet. I was like Great, I'll take them both!









This is the quilting ruler laying on the cabinet.









Front of the cabinet.










The hole for the machine. It's longer than my 401A, but better to long than to short. LOL
It's also a bit deeper than needed, but we'll cut a board to sit down in the hole to raise up the machine to make it flush with the cabinet. I'll have to cut out a circle for the cords too.











The width of the hole.












The latch on the bottom side that holds the shelf for the machine in place. Yes, I had to get down and look. It's not enough that I know it holds the machine up, I want to know how it does it. LOL There are big springs on the side too, to raise and lower the original machine.










This is the board that fits in the hole to cover it. I could just set the machine on top of this if I wanted. The circle on the board presses down so you can stick a finger in it to lift up the board.

I have no idea what type of machine came in this originally. I am just curious if anyone knows? 
I think it work just fine for me. I included lots of pics in case someone else can learn from my experience of cabinet shopping .


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

That is just like the cabinet I have (the way it works) it came with a Singer open arm machine - but I forget the model # something like 538 or 539. DS has the machine (in a case) now. I bought it from the original owner's daughter - and she said her Mom bought the set brand new. Based on others I've seen, mine does appear to be a genuine Singer cabinet. 

The machine also had a plastic insert that fit over the opening making it a flat surface when you didn't need it "open arm".


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## Macybaby (Jun 16, 2006)

I notice yours has the same "speckling" mine came with. I refinished so mine does not have that anymore.


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## flowergurl (Feb 27, 2007)

Thanks ever so much for all your help with this Macybaby. 
My cabinet will have to stay speckled. I don't want to refinish it. 
That's time i could be sewing . haha


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