# Langstroth vs. TBH



## FlipFlopFarmer (Nov 20, 2003)

I posted this on a bee site and only 1 response which didn't say a whole lot. Any thoughts from you guys?

I have been reading up on bees and thinking about getting bees for a while now and would like to start next spring. 

I am curious if those of you that have TBH have experience w/standard Langstroth type hives. If so, could you compare/contrast the advantages/disadvantages?

The obvious advantage that I see to the TBH method is that it's much less expensive than standard hives. *Are there other advantages?*

The only disadvantage that I see is that all of the beekeeping classes are geared towards standard hives. *Are their other disadvantages that I might not be thing of?* Is it easier to control mites or other disease in a standard hive?

Thanks in advance -

 Carla


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## Hovey Hollow (Apr 25, 2005)

I'm still a newbee but from what I understand is that it is easier to control the mites in a TBH than a Langstroth. 
I haven't gotten that far yet. 

My reasons for wanting a TBH were:
less expensive

lighter--honey supers on a Langstroth are very heavy. In a TBH you handle one bar of comb at a time. You have to be more careful because they do break more easily. But, slow and steady is better for working around bees anyway.

I'm not really looking into getting into a major opperation, I just want enough for personal use and maybe some extra for friends and family. 

I want honey and wax. Many people list not being able to extact honey from a TBH as a con, I don't have the money to buy an extractor (hundreds or even thousands $$) or the patience to track someone down and have my honey extracted on their schedule. So, crush and drain on a small scale is going to work much better for me. I can make candles, lip balm, lotion, etc with the extra wax.

Don't need to store extra equipment over the winter. I guess with Lanstroth hives you take certain parts off of the hive for part of the year and have to have storage for it away from mice and wax moths, etc. 

With a top bar hive you have less work to do more often. You can't go weeks and weeks without checking your hives and expect things to be going well. Care needs to be taken that the brood isn't getting honey bound. You need to add or move top bars to make sure that they have enough room and don't decide that they are too crowded and want to leave. My hive is in my backyard so this isn't an issue for me. If I had hundreds of hives and had to drive to my beeyards, then it would be a bigger deal with the prices of gas. 

I personally think that a TBH is more practical than a Lanstroth for a small scale beekeeper but I've only had my hive going for a little while and am not an expert by any means. I haven't ever worked with Langstroth equipment. I still don't really understand how all of those parts go together, etc. 

The main drawback is the lack of information out there and not having a local beekeepers who are familiar with TBH's. You will have to forge your own path, which can be scary since there probably a bit of a fear of bees in all of us. While it's not incredibly painful, no one wants to be stung because they didn't know what they were doing. There is a top bar hive forum at www.beesource.com that is very helpful. There are several people there that are doing TBH's on a large scale and are successful with them. Not that I don't love Homesteading Today, but you will find more info over there (and a few familiar faces as well)

I hope this was helpful to you.


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## FlipFlopFarmer (Nov 20, 2003)

Thanks Hovey! I loved your slideshow by the way. I've shown everyone in my family.  

I called Ruhll bee supply and the Oregon Beekeeping assoc. There's a serious lack of information out there regarding TBH, which is sort scary for some someone just starting out. Although I am very much the type to forge my own way.  

I inquired about beekeeping classes and they won't start until Jan of 07 and by then I hope to have my hives built or at least be working on them as my cow is due to calve in late Feb or early March so now is the time to make the decision towards which direction to go.

I think you offered a good contrast in your post. I too want the wax for balms and such. I haven't tried candles yet. I guess with the cost of putting together a tbh versus the langstroth type, I certainly couldn't go wrong.

*How is it easier to control mites in a tbh? Also, do you find that the entrance feeder works okay? In beekeeping for dummies, it suggests that using that type of feeder, versus a top feeder could lead to other bees trying to rob the hive. When you say that you should take care that your brood doesn't become honey bound.....what does that mean? Sorry if these questions seem silly....still learning.  * 


Thanks -

 Carla


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## FlipFlopFarmer (Nov 20, 2003)

I just checked the beesource site I posted this on and now I have some replies...guess I'm just not a patient person. :dance: 

I would also appreciate anyone's thoughts from this site as welll.

 Carla


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## Hovey Hollow (Apr 25, 2005)

You can get a full explanation at Michael Bush's site  
Basically, with a top bar hive the bees make their own comb. It is the size the bees need it to be....ie natural comb size. The comb size in purchased foundation is bigger. It makes bigger bees (weird, huh?). These bigger bees are also more susceptible to mites. If you use small cell size (natural size) comb then the bees are less susceptible to mites. 

It may also have to do with ventilation, etc. I'm not really sure. I've just heard lots of people say that TBH's are less susceptible to mites. Mites seem to be a problem more in kept bees than in wild bees, so it's a problem that's exaserbated by something beekeepers are doing. So, letting them do their own thing helps somehow.


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## John Schneider (Sep 9, 2005)

I am reading this with interest as I have 2 lang hives. I was led to believe that the major drawback of TBH is that it is not practical or possible to extract honey with an extractor?


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## Hovey Hollow (Apr 25, 2005)

I've heard that there is now an extractor that can handle top bars, but is it economically feasable to buy an extractor if you just have a few hives? With a top bar hive you harvest less honey more often. It's pretty easy to just crush and strain if you have a small quantity to do at a time. And I've heard it only takes the bees a few days to draw out the comb to replace what you take, so it really doesn't set them back to far. 

Did you buy an extractor to use for your two hives? How much did it cost? I just don't think I could justify the cost of an extractor for my small scall operation.


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## Hovey Hollow (Apr 25, 2005)

FlipFlopFarmer said:


> *How is it easier to control mites in a tbh? Also, do you find that the entrance feeder works okay? In beekeeping for dummies, it suggests that using that type of feeder, versus a top feeder could lead to other bees trying to rob the hive. When you say that you should take care that your brood doesn't become honey bound.....what does that mean? Sorry if these questions seem silly....still learning.  *



Sorry, forgot to answer the other questions. I put an entrance feeder inside the hive, so I don't think I'll have as much trouble with robbing. 
From what I understand if they have filled honey comb on both sides of the brood nest then they will feel too crowded because they will have to eat the honey before the queen can lay in that comb. If you move the honey comb back a bit and put an empty top bar between it and the brood nest then they have more room to expand the broodnest and will be happier.


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## John Schneider (Sep 9, 2005)

FlipFlopFarmer...I believe that tbh's control mites because the cell size is smaller or "natural cell size". This actually cuts down on the size of the bees, the amount of time in capping is reduced by 24 hours etc. Michael Bush who posts on Beesource Forums uses natural cell size exclusively and uses no mite controls.

hovey1716...yes I bought an extractor for my own use. I paid $75 for a 4 frame hand-powered extractor. It was advertised in our local bargain finder along with boxes, frames, gloves, smokers and veils. The extractor is very old...vintage 1950's, but it works flawlessly. I actually see quite a few of them for sale in different venues. This was definitely a deal though.


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## FlipFlopFarmer (Nov 20, 2003)

So you literally crush the comb and strain the honey? I've seen a few pictures of buckets with holes drilled in them and what not.

It would be nice if a local beekeeping assoc shared the equipement with paying members or something. That would be WAY more economical than everyone having their own.

I've been on ebay scouting out bee stuff.....WAY FUN!

John that does sound like an excellent deal. I've been wondering if anyone in my husband's family knows where his grandfather's beekeeping supplies are. I would be so honored to use his equipment. He passed before I was with my husband though oddly enough, he is a major contributor to my desire to get into small scale farming and beekeeping. All the romantic stories my husband would tell me about days on his grandparent's farm. 

 Carla


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## John Schneider (Sep 9, 2005)

Carla...the tradition of the smallholder farmer is strong. I am proud to be a fourth generation hog farmer in our area now that I have pigs again. It was more than a few years that our farm hadn't had the sounds of pigs on it. It is indeed somewhat romantic to be farming. I love the feeling of supplying my family with food and bringing money into the bank accounts with nothing but my toil and my soil!

Just one comment on extracting honey...it is just my opinion, and I am not an expert on bees by any stretch, but I would refrain from crushing comb to extract honey. That is unless you have more than enough frames already established. That comb is valuable stuff in that it takes so much time and energy to make it. The time spent making comb is time that could be spent foraging for pollen and nectar. If you have more frames of comb than you know what to do with, or if you sell the wax, then I suppose it might be a little more practicle. I do see quite a few used extractors hanging around our area...having said that Alberta is, I believe, one of the biggest producers of honey in the world. Maybe that translates into more used equipment? You might try contacting your local honey co-op or bee club and seeing if there were other small producers that you could share an extractor with?


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