# We are not alone!



## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

This is pretty sad actually. Over 50% of Americans are now single. 

I was recently sitting in a Denny's on Saturday morning in a large metropolitan location and noticed something odd. There were a lot of men with children. I mean enough that it was noticeable. Then it hit me. These were all Dad's that had their kids for weekend visitation. I even helped out a Dad that was kind of desperate when he sent his 3 yr old daughter into the ladies room and she didn't come out. She was having trouble reaching the sink and was just standing there when I went in to check on her. 

It makes you wonder....why? What has so changed in our society since when we were kids that our societal makeup has changed this drastically? 

I think a lot of it is that we are spoiled brats. Looking at folks younger than myself I only see this getting worse. We have been given or have assumed the attitude that we are to consider ourselves first. Do what feels good. Grab as much as you can for yourself and to heck with anyone else.

Article where I got the statistic from: http://dailysignal.com/2014/09/11/m...arried/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

Why do you think it's 'sad' ?
It is merely a current statistic. A numbers game based on
Evolved societal norms about the demographics.
Whether more singles at this time, or not makes little
difference about life choices.

It may seem 'Sad' that more divorce brings more singles
into the demographic, but that doesn't necessarily mean
that those singles regret not being married.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

You have a point Moonwolf. 

If you read the article it states that 75 percent of Americans would like to be married. So, apparently, many of those folks are not happy being single. 

From a societal stand point marriage is preferable. In general, things are more stable with committed relationships. Statistically more well balanced children are raised to adulthood in stable 2 parent households. 

The article states that statistically married people live longer, are happier and more prosperous than single people (apparently they didn't include my ex in the survey).

My statement about it being sad stems from this being a symptom of societal breakdown. There are many other symptoms as well of course.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

Stats I read (quite!) some time ago said that married men were happier and lived longer than single men. Also said that single women were happier and lived longer than married women.

I guess this means men should marry each other?

Mon (I think they're already doing that in California!)


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

Stats are what they are.
Gauging individual happiness might influence some because of
the numbers, but it's up to each individual to constitute
what happiness is to them. 
Abraham Lincoln famously stated something to the effect 
that you are happy if you want to be. Nothing can MAKE
you happy, and that includes your state of being single or 
married. If marriage ENHANCES someone's state of happiness
I might beleive that as much as I'll believe single people
can be happy IF they want to be.


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## viggie (Jul 17, 2009)

We've made ourselves the victims of our own disposable society. Families, spouses, children, unborn children, lifelong commitments...all disposable. Trashed the moment they become inconvenient. We're teaching the next generations they mean no more than a paper coffee cup. Now that's truly frightening.


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2014)

Year ago, when many of you were learning how to tie your shoes, we women in our late 20's on up started to be told that we "deserved" to be happy ALL THE TIME..the solution, of course, to any unhappiness was to get a divorce,and go and "find" yourself..

Are you married and bored? Get a divorce..
Are you married and want more/better sex? Get a divorce..
Are you married and in a rut? Get a divorce..

The message went further..."You don't need a man in your life..it is preferable to get a job, make your own $, have your children in day care, be fulfilled, be a modern woman...blah de blah de blah.." 

The "Feminist Movement" was news headlines several times a week...Gloria Steinem, Betty Friedan, Bella Abzug, etc. said that women who enjoyed being wives and mothers were misguided slaves...enter the world of "person" vs man or woman...things went so far in a unisex direction that there was even a concentrated effort for years to have "manhole" covers changed to "person covers"...seriously...

and so society began to believe that marriage was nonessential, and archaic...the last straw for the American family ( now we're into my own opinions) was "no-fault divorce"...I have literally lost count of how many MEN that I personally have known over the last 30 years have awakened one morning to find their spouse and children gone, a summons for divorce hearing in the mail, and dumped so quickly into some serious poverty it made heads spin. You lose your family, your home, your savings and in many cases, your retirement pension, all because "I don't want to be married anymore."

No wonder the number of people marrying is at an all time low...who wants to risk everything they've worked for for years ...all it takes is "I'm bored" to ruin your life...


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## doingitmyself (Jul 30, 2013)

Leslie that was very well said and i think very accurate. But I believe both sexes are equally to blame.


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## Classof66 (Jul 9, 2011)

Viggie, Add pets to that list.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Coluldnt have said it better Leslie.


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## moonwolf (Sep 20, 2004)

viggie said:


> We've made ourselves the victims of our own disposable society. Families, spouses, children, unborn children, lifelong commitments...all disposable. Trashed the moment they become inconvenient. We're teaching the next generations they mean no more than a paper coffee cup. Now that's truly frightening.


It is more and more obvious how our free societies monetize
and idolize. All around us it's just too easy to get distracted
enough to break down relationships. 
My ex spouse after long term union simply found her distraction
to another man and lifestyle. After that, the disunion becomes
merely a process about 'who gets what'. I am glad that I 
was able to buy out the homestead share she had and 
continue being true to myself. Not that this has much to
add to the topic at hand, but my point is that it's not worth
dwelling on marriage or being single. I look to what a person
'IS' , and one must concern themselves with compatibility
in order to spend their lives together in a holy deadlock
determined by worthless vows and a legal document.

I have a neighbour who married after living together 2 0
Years. They did the ceremony and party for their family
and friends convenience. Their grown son did the same.
Maybe that's the way to do it?


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2014)

doingitmyself said:


> Leslie that was very well said and i think very accurate. But I believe both sexes are equally to blame.


It's just my world....I work mostly with other women..many of whom either date or have married a guy who has been divorced..since they're all much younger than myself, they have small children...every day I hear how hard it is for them to purchase a home or a car or put money away while paying huge chunks of child support as well as still paying the mortgage on a home where the ex and children live along with the boy friend...ouch.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Actually, the feminist movement freed men, not women. True, nowadays men sometimes have to pay child support, but men can also get free sex just about anywhere they choose. No need to marry--as Leslie points out, marriage now puts men at a disadvantage. 

Why would a young man marry when he can get all the milk he wants without buying the cow? As a matter of fact, he can keep a cow for a few years and while he is still in his prime ditch the old one and get a much younger and more sprightly cow. 

Only religion, convention and love argue for marriage, and loving a woman in this day and age is really a risk. Gloria Steinem did not do women any favors. Most of you single women out there will never again be married. You may shack up, but marriage?

How many of you seriously think you'll marry again? 

If you are past 30, how many available, solvent, and worthwhile (unselfish, not boozers or druggies, and willing to bring his money home to mama) men are out there for you?


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

Oxankle said:


> Actually, the feminist movement freed men, not women. True, nowadays men sometimes have to pay child support, but men can also get free sex just about anywhere they choose. No need to marry--as Leslie points out, marriage now puts men at a disadvantage.
> 
> Why would a young man marry when he can get all the milk he wants without buying the cow? As a matter of fact, he can keep a cow for a few years and while he is still in his prime ditch the old one and get a much younger and more sprightly cow.
> 
> ...


I have no intention of ever marrying again. Why would I? I doubt that I'd even shack up. I like my space and my time to myself and not answering to anyone buy myself. Why would I risk giving all that up for a guy who only wants a few squeezes of milk before he's off to find the next heifer? 

Looks like everyone loses. :/


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## homefire2007 (Sep 21, 2007)

The feminist movement was just fine by me. My mother was on the frontlines of it and I am better for it. Not to mention extremely proud of her. She raised four children alone working back-breaking jobs and hours men were better paid for. The way she saw it, she should be paid the same wages a man was. Nothing more, nothing less. She wasn't interested in finding herself..she just wanted a roof, food and a wage she could raise her children on.

One size does not fit all. Perhaps men and women are struggling to find their equilibrium at this time. Maybe it is more about ethics, integrity, personal responsibility and putting the hard work that involves into our spouses, children and community. As a child, we look to the adults in our lives for guidance and direction. If the adults don't have a clue...we are lost. The world is hard enough.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Oxankle said:


> How many of you seriously think you'll marry again?
> 
> If you are past 30, how many available, solvent, and worthwhile (unselfish, not boozers or druggies, and willing to bring his money home to mama) men are out there for you?


Thank you Oxankle. Guess I'll just go pour myself into a bottle of tequilla now. :buds:


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## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

TxMex said:


> ...The article states that statistically married people live longer, are happier and more prosperous than single people (apparently they didn't include my ex in the survey)...


How _does_ one become statistically married? Must you be demographically well endowed? Close to the median age? Maybe you have to profess a belief in antinatalism? Is it even legal? Or can any ol' socioeconomically challenged fella get in on this...:hrm:? The only time I ever got married it was in front of a justice of the peace...:drum: Just sayin.


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## CountryWannabe (May 31, 2004)

bostonlesley said:


> The message went further..."You don't need a man in your life..it is preferable to get a job, make your own $, have your children in day care, be fulfilled, be a modern woman...blah de blah de blah.."
> 
> *When I was young (just about the time the earth started cooling) a woman was reliant on a man for everything she had or did. When I was in high school the boys education was geared towards making them ready to be doctors and lawyers and such (I had a scholarship to a semi-private HS populated by the rich and influential) and the girls were taught to be the wives of doctors and lawyers and such. I was not allowed to take science classes because that was "really not necessary". I did take a lot of "Domestic Science" classes, though :bored:. If I had a housekeeper I would know how to organize her day and (to be truthful) I still know how to manage a family budget.
> 
> ...


I prefer to think of it as that nowadays a person does not need to marry simply for stability. I have been married for coming up to 36 years now, to a man I love and to whom I **want** to be married. We are not forced to remain together by money or by law. Either one of us could up and leave and the other would be able to cope financially (women can plan their own finances now). We are together by mutual choice and mutual respect. However, it takes a certain maturity to realize that marriage isn't about "happy ever after" with no thought, care or effort. It's about a lot of hard work on the part of both partners. All the fairy tales and most films end at the marriage, when that is really the beginning. Until then you are carried along by roses and bluebirds, with the help of a few hormones. After the ceremony you realize there is nothing romantic about washing stinky socks or cleaning the house. Every. Single. Day. If that is all I had, I would be divorced by this afternoon. 

Mary


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

Human society can be complicated: Both Bostonleslie and Countrywannabe are correct!


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## doingitmyself (Jul 30, 2013)

Honestly, i think the biggest problem is a lot of younger men and women don't even respect themselves. They are like pouty children trying to have an adult relationship. They get some of this here, then go for some of that there. Very nearly like a honey bee collecting nectar. These younger wishy washy me me's change their minds every three days if they are off the meds.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I think, IF I had someone, and I was extremely happy, I would think that she must not be, and IF I hated being in the relationship, she would likely be loving me in it.

That's just my luck


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2014)

All of my great-grandmothers were born in the latter part of the 19th century..each one had her own money..each one owned her own property...even biblical women (( see proverbs) owned land, bought and sold their goods, etc. I don't know of any laws in America or Canada or Ireland in 1870's + which precluded women from property /money ownership...?????????


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## DUlrich (Dec 31, 2008)

bostonlesley said:


> and so society began to believe that marriage was nonessential, and archaic...the last straw for the American family ( now we're into my own opinions) was "no-fault divorce"...I have literally lost count of how many MEN that I personally have known over the last 30 years have awakened one morning to find their spouse and children gone, a summons for divorce hearing in the mail, and dumped so quickly into some serious poverty it made heads spin. You lose your family, your home, your savings and in many cases, your retirement pension, all because "I don't want to be married anymore.".


"No-fault" is definitely a major problem. But there may be a solution that keeps it and also solves the problem (can't even imagine the howling and screaming of oppression from certain sectors if they tried to end it...). What happens is a simple change to the law: the party initiating a "no-fault" divorce has to forfeit receiving any spousal support (it could still be ordered against them though) and all visitation rights (and cannot seek custody). If one parent really wants to leave the marriage for no fault of the other, then that's how it goes, but there need to be consequences for making that choice.


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## Guest (Sep 16, 2014)

I agree 100 %......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Trainwrek (Aug 23, 2014)

I have a wealthy friend, not super rich, but certainly has assets and makes a very good living. He hasn't got married for the same reason BostonLeslie pointed out. He doesn't want to lose everything he has worked for in the last 30 years if she gets a whim that she'd prefer to be single. A few years ago he was dating a woman long term who wanted him to marry her. He said OK but I need you to sign a prenup. She flat out refused and the relationship ended not too long after. He figures he dodged a major bullet.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

*"My grandmother enjoyed being a wife and mother. But her husband treated her like an intelligent human being, rather than as the chief cook and bottle washer/bedwarmer. *"

"All the fairy tales and most films end at the marriage, when that is really the beginning. Until then you are carried along by roses and bluebirds, with the help of a few hormones. After the ceremony you realize there is nothing romantic about washing stinky socks or cleaning the house. Every. Single. Day. If that is all I had, I would be divorced by this afternoon. "

Those two paragraphs, by Leslie and Wannabe, pretty much sum it up. The man who falls in love with a good woman had better treat her as a senior partner in his marriage because that is what she is. If he wants a home and children he needs her. If she wants children and a secure home in which to raise them she needs him. 

There is little romance in climbing out of bed in the middle of the night to attend to a crying child, in getting up and shaving and going off to work anywhere from 260 to 365 days a year for life. No romance in going to school for a teacher's conference because your kid is misbehaving, none in mowing the lawn after a hard day's work, none in working on an old car because your kids need braces more than you need a new car.

Absolutely no romance in 365 days each year in washing clothes, cleaning house, cooking three meals per day, worrying about household finances, wondering whether a husband is going to bring home a paycheck or has his company gone bust, will the corn make, can we pay the mortgage, can we pay the doctor and on and on. 

On the other hand, having a good wife by your side and in your bed sure makes living a lot more pleasant for a man. -----Just don't forget that she works a hell of a lot harder than you do, and you keep her the same way you caught her---a little bit of soft talk, some flowers now and then, a bit of candy and everlasting fidelity.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

yeah, well, I worked 19 1/2yrs in a glass factory in Sapulpa as a mechanic. They didn't keep thermometers in there other than to show new people how hot it was before the mometers would bust, The floor was so hot, you couldn't stand on it long. Only by walking could you keep water blisters off of your feet. I have old scars all over my arms from breaking glass touching them, or my touching hot machinery to work/oil/grease it. I am missing 1/2 of my l index finger, and the first joint of my ruing finger has been sewn back on. I have climbed on top of those hot machines and pulled out a center stem that was bent, that was a bit over 3in dia, and around 8ft long, and thrown it to the ground when brought all the way up and out of the machine. There NEVER was a woman work in the hot end. 
No Chuck, theres jobs that are/ or were still too hard for any woman to be working in them.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Well, Bill; If push came to shove and we sent all our men to war (along with some women) they'd find an Amazon or two who could do the jobs. 

I know that women are not supposed to be "as strong as men" but I know several who could whip me in my best years. Course they'd not do it--because they are ladies and because they know I'd enjoy it.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Theres that word IF. As dad usta say, If the dog hadn't stopped to, u know, he would have caught the rabbit. The much later, he heard and added, IF the rabbit hadn't been 2 u knows ahead of him, he would have caught him anyway. Im talking about American jobs that women couldn't handle. During the wars, they hired older men who had retired, who still had work in them. Not women. WHERE I WORKED.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

you can prove anything with statistics. all I know is I know plenty of good people, married or not, that love their families, "traditional" or not. and plenty of jerks on both sides that don't. separating people into groups based on paper possession does nothing to spread love. 

I consider anyone who comes into my life for me to love and be loved by FAMILY. for however long that happens. 

Personally I think a big problem is a culture where a man feels he is unable/taboo/illegal from taking his daughter to the bathroom and a 3 year old must go in alone. what. the.??? we have lots of "family" bathrooms here on the left coast, or signs saying people of any gender can accompany to the opposite bathroom, or you can go into the gender identified bathroom of your choice. Or...in Europe you just go where there's an open toilet, either side. When there's a line for the girls bathroom I always go in the guys


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

WY, where U B. Bean so long since U I see.


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## sassafras manor (Dec 5, 2009)

DUlrich said:


> "No-fault" is definitely a major problem. But there may be a solution that keeps it and also solves the problem (can't even imagine the howling and screaming of oppression from certain sectors if they tried to end it...). What happens is a simple change to the law: the party initiating a "no-fault" divorce has to forfeit receiving any spousal support (it could still be ordered against them though) and all visitation rights (and cannot seek custody). If one parent really wants to leave the marriage for no fault of the other, then that's how it goes, but there need to be consequences for making that choice.


I understand your point but imagine if the spouse commiting adultry is content with the best of both worlds? She can cheat with a man (husband's friend) on the side yet return home to a nice home with an open checkbook and have no intentions of filing for divorce. Why should the faithful husband have to potentially give up his finances and children when he is left with no other option than to file for divorce himself before he is bled dry if he files a "no-fault" divorce? Been there and done that...single dad with 4 kids ages 10 and youger!


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## DUlrich (Dec 31, 2008)

sassafras manor said:


> I understand your point but imagine if the spouse *commiting adultry* is content with the best of both worlds?


If the spouse is cheating or abusive (there are a few other reasons as well) then you would be looking at an *at-fault* divorce, where the person filing proves their spouse did something wrong. In those cases there doesn't need to be a penalty for filing, because the person is actually saying their partner violated the marriage contract. The penalties on no-fault filers is just a protection for people who did nothing wrong but are being left on the spouse's whim/boredom. "Mutual" situations would probably not need to be changed either, assuming they are _actually_ mutual :hair


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## sassafras manor (Dec 5, 2009)

DUlrich said:


> If the spouse is cheating or abusive (there are a few other reasons as well) then you would be looking at an *at-fault* divorce, where the person filing proves their spouse did something wrong. :hair


That would be correct in some states but Illinois happens to be a no-fault state regarding the stance on reasons for divorce.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2014)

sassafras manor said:


> That would be correct in some states but Illinois happens to be a no-fault state regarding the stance on reasons for divorce.



and, IMHO, that needs to be changed...in every state


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

"She can cheat with a man (husband's friend) on the side yet return home to a nice home with an open checkbook and have no intentions of filing for divorce."

I don't know what nice guys do, but the "friend" would have two broken knees and two broken shoulders as soon as I could manage it. (And perhaps a knot on his skull, too.) A three foot piece of pipe works wonders on oversized libidos. No need to play fair, catch the SOB unawares. 

The wife would then have the option of sleeping in the car or filing for divorce as she chose. 

I know a fellow who was faced with this; caught his wife and his friend together in flagrante delicto. He is now a wealthy man married to a faithful woman. The tramp has gone on to points unknown. (The friend left town too.)


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

FarmboyBill said:


> yeah, well, I worked 19 1/2yrs in a glass factory in Sapulpa as a mechanic. They didn't keep thermometers in there other than to show new people how hot it was before the mometers would bust, The floor was so hot, you couldn't stand on it long. Only by walking could you keep water blisters off of your feet. I have old scars all over my arms from breaking glass touching them, or my touching hot machinery to work/oil/grease it. I am missing 1/2 of my l index finger, and the first joint of my ruing finger has been sewn back on. I have climbed on top of those hot machines and pulled out a center stem that was bent, that was a bit over 3in dia, and around 8ft long, and thrown it to the ground when brought all the way up and out of the machine. There NEVER was a woman work in the hot end.
> No Chuck, theres jobs that are/ or were still too hard for any woman to be working in them.


Bill, in some ways I agree with you, jobs that are strictly muscle maybe. But as one of my superiors always said work smart not hard.

As to uncomfortable conditions a lot of female veterans and active duty military would not agree with your blanket statement. 

Having done 3 tours in Iraq and 1 in Afghanistan, I seem to remember some uncomfortable temperature variations :teehee:. When it comes to injuries uhh, yeah got a few, some pins and wires keeping a shoulder where it should be, concussion injuries and various other scars.


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## sassafras manor (Dec 5, 2009)

Oxankle said:


> "She can cheat with a man (husband's friend) on the side yet return home to a nice home with an open checkbook and have no intentions of filing for divorce."
> 
> I don't know what nice guys do, but the "friend" would have two broken knees and two broken shoulders as soon as I could manage it. (And perhaps a knot on his skull, too.) A three foot piece of pipe works wonders on oversized libidos. No need to play fair, catch the SOB unawares.


Yes the concept (and temptation) is great but the lesson I would be teaching my 4 young children would have been vastly different than how they have been raised. Plus who is to say that those actions would not end up with me in jail and the children without their father?


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

no really, your the exception, not the rule.
U ever see women on construction sites, running the jack hammer, or bull dozer, or down in a hole digging with a schovel? No, Where I see them is standing holding stop signs at the permeter of the site.
Ever ee them farming 100 acres with a 50yr old tractor. Nope, Only see them on the newest tractors with a cab like a living room.
Never saw them in the field when I was in.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Bill never felt like I was different, around here it is not that unusual to see women working in jobs that aren't maybe traditionally women's. I do most of the work on my place, sometimes I do hire help because of time constraints.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

no really said:


> Having done 3 tours in Iraq and 1 in Afghanistan, I seem to remember some uncomfortable temperature variations :teehee:. When it comes to injuries uhh, yeah got a few, some pins and wires keeping a shoulder where it should be, concussion injuries and various other scars.



:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb: you rock !!


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

FarmboyBill said:


> no really, your the exception, not the rule.
> U ever see women on construction sites, running the jack hammer, or bull dozer, or down in a hole digging with a schovel? No, Where I see them is standing holding stop signs at the permeter of the site.
> Ever ee them farming 100 acres with a 50yr old tractor. Nope, Only see them on the newest tractors with a cab like a living room.
> Never saw them in the field when I was in.


Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I was in the USAF, in a male dominated career field, and the best compliment I ever got was when we were out on an air base ground defense exercise and our master sgt made the comment that he thought I was one of the guys because I was helping load up the equipment. There were plenty of males and females working pretty hard to get out of what needed to be done. Laziness knows no race, gender, or age. 


Thank you, no really, for your service





Mean people suck.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Thank you too rkintn.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

FarmboyBill said:


> no really, your the exception, not the rule.
> U ever see women on construction sites, running the jack hammer, or bull dozer, or down in a hole digging with a schovel? No, Where I see them is standing holding stop signs at the permeter of the site.
> Ever ee them farming 100 acres with a 50yr old tractor. Nope, Only see them on the newest tractors with a cab like a living room.
> Never saw them in the field when I was in.


Apparently there are several of us 'exceptions' running around. Normally I let most of the things you write pass. This ticks me off.

I operate heavy equipment, do house framing, finish carpentry, plumbing, electrical, and tile work. I can dig a good straight trench with a shovel. I've done lots of bar ditch work while slogging around in mud trying to get drainage working. I have several well used rock bars. 

I ran a 1200 acre ranch single handed on old non-cab tractors. Fixed fence, maintained water tanks, brush hogged, cut trees off of fences, etc. I've been on a horse from an hour before dawn until several hours after sunset rounding up cows. 

I was an over the road trucker. I've worked as a milk hand in dairies. I had a lawn and landscape(re-sodding, tearing out and redoing retaining walls and flower beds in addition to regular lawn mowing) business for several years. I worked on my own equipment.

Many times I have been waist deep in the engine of a truck. I do my own oil changes. Change my own tires when I have a flat too.

I can fish, shoot, skin out and prepare anything I kill. 

I've lived in every environment from a cloud forest at 8000 ft elev to broiling hot low desert country.

Yep....wasn't born with that one important appendage. Obviously weaker and useless.


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## sustainabilly (Jun 20, 2012)

----!!


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

TxMex said:


> You have a point Moonwolf.
> 
> If you read the article it states that 75 percent of Americans would like to be married. So, apparently, many of those folks are not happy being single.
> 
> ...


 ............I still believe that man-man , women-women relationships are less desirable models for raising children than a stable , conventional man-woman married relationship . Since children inherit and emulate the attitudes of their parents queer relationships are less desirable than the normal man woman situation . Others will disagree . , fordy


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

said it here before saying it again...if men had to go through birth pain the species would end soon....roflmao.

it doesnt have to be something of physical stregth to cull out a man or woman...it could be anything....a dirty diaper could put me on the run...lol..my stomach heaves over certain smells and i can not keep it fro happening and once i gag..its on !!! i would be in trouble for sure as my kids would have to run naked and wild so i could just hose them off outside like at one of them camper septic dumping stations until i got'em house broke and underwear trained...lol...or i would be a tall skinny man from heaving multiple times a day....i cant do a diaper but have assisted vets on numerous surgery's on livestock and a few where i was the dr. sewing up critters and more.

i use to see this woman around town that worked for a bricklayer in 80's..she wore daisy dukes and a white t-shirt and i seen her run up a bouncing board with cinderblock in each hand...she was a bronze beauty lean and muscled and even back then when i was leaner not sure i coulda done that balancing act.i was overseeing the work they performed for the company i worked for.it was a sight to see her..she was as graceful as a ballarena ,strong and had long brown hair..a real beauty.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

reading Elkies post sure takes me back. my husband was exactly the same. such a strong man and could handle anything but a dirty diaper would have him on the run. throw up his guts he would. never changed one in his life. ~Georgia.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

yo FBB
















































Dangerous work: 400 women died in munitions factories, between 1914 (when this image was taken) and 1918, when the war ended
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ains-women-First-World-War.html#ixzz3DhwaB9Vv 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook










Skilled: Despite being paid less than their male counterparts, many of the female munitionettes undertook dangerous and fiddly work
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ains-women-First-World-War.html#ixzz3DhwqoDJ1 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook











read more here just about ww1...you are behind in times

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...king-life-Britains-women-First-World-War.html
​
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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

dont think for a minute these gals wont shoot ya,stab ya,hog tie ya and kilt ya deader than a door knob,drive tanks,dig foxholes etc....capable is all over.theres a story in bible about a woman killing a king that fled a great battle..he got a tent stake driven through his temple .


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## viggie (Jul 17, 2009)

FarmboyBill said:


> no really, your the exception, not the rule.
> U ever see women on construction sites, running the jack hammer, or bull dozer, or down in a hole digging with a schovel? No, Where I see them is standing holding stop signs at the permeter of the site.
> Ever ee them farming 100 acres with a 50yr old tractor. Nope, Only see them on the newest tractors with a cab like a living room.
> Never saw them in the field when I was in.


Well since that's the example, I have worked construction. My first job was as a construction mechanic in the family business. Homesteaders aren't your typical women so you know there are a bunch of tough ladies here but still...I'm not sure you live in the same world as the rest of us, sometimes :happy2:


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

As was said. just cause I didn't see it, don't mean it didn't happen. I had 3 aunts worked in the Douglas aircraft Co during WW 2. Just saying, I aint seen it. Been watching women wrestling. I know its fake, but theyre way tougher than id ever be just falling and flopping around the ring.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

Yes because everyone knows that that kind of wrestling isn't faked at all. :/ you would rather believe that is real but not that women can work heavy equipment or heavy manual labor jobs? I can't even begin to fathom that line of reasoning. 




Mean people suck.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

:shocked: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

elkhound said:


> :shocked: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:


 ...........Elkhound , I sent you a PM , I just noticed the Israeli flag ! , thanks , fordy


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

.............Elkhound , Thanks , I sent the addy to my brother , he will be surprised ! , fordy


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

rkintn, Ive watched it, backed it up to see that the hits are faked, the moves choreographed, ect. BUT the falls are real, I couldn't/wouldn't do that.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

also, cause I see women doing that wrestling, I believe it. IF I don't see something, Im not going to vouch for its being done somewhere else. Whoever sees it somewhere else can vouch for it,


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

IF yiou wanna vouch for something you aint seen, that your business. I wont do it.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

IF youll read the history of the battle of the Somme in 1916, youll see that although there was a massive bombardment beforehand, 1/2 the shells failed to detonate. The soldiers went over the top thinking the artillery had done the trick, and 60 000 paid with their lives cause it hadn't. Faulty ammunition. Who made it? Couldn't have been a bunch of men, as the munitions factorys had hired a bunch of women.


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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Nother thing. Although there were women served in every war in battle up till the end of the 19th century. None served in the trenches of WW 1. I don't blame them. Ive seen vids where the trench floors were alive with rats, of rats living/hiding in bodies. I couldn't have taken it myself. Yes, many were under fire, as ambulance drivers and front line medical corps, jobs they were well suited for, BUT they didn't have to live the life of a front line soldier.


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

"Apparently there are several of us 'exceptions' running around. Normally I let most of the things you write pass. This ticks me off.

I operate heavy equipment, do house framing, finish carpentry, plumbing, electrical, and tile work. I can dig a good straight trench with a shovel. I've done lots of bar ditch work while slogging around in mud trying to get drainage working. I have several well used rock bars. 

I ran a 1200 acre ranch single handed on old non-cab tractors. Fixed fence, maintained water tanks, brush hogged, cut trees off of fences, etc. I've been on a horse from an hour before dawn until several hours after sunset rounding up cows. 

I was an over the road trucker. I've worked as a milk hand in dairies. I had a lawn and landscape(re-sodding, tearing out and redoing retaining walls and flower beds in addition to regular lawn mowing) business for several years. I worked on my own equipment.

Many times I have been waist deep in the engine of a truck. I do my own oil changes. Change my own tires when I have a flat too.

I can fish, shoot, skin out and prepare anything I kill. 

I've lived in every environment from a cloud forest at 8000 ft elev to broiling hot low desert country.

Yep....wasn't born with that one important appendage. Obviously weaker and useless."
===================================================================
It the woman ever finds herself a man who can keep up with her he'll be one tough son of a gun. She'd run over a weakling, that's for sure. 
Ox


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Pretty sure they weren't permitted to serve in that war if indeed they didn't. I'll admit that I don't have time to research it right now. I'm sure there were nurses and support personnel that were women. Besides they were desperately needed at home. 

Gee....and munitions made by men have never failed. Again, I'll admit that I don't have time to run down that particular rabbit. You are an absolutely amazing fount of misogynistic information. Keep reaching for straws. You're getting deeper in that hole.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Oxankle said:


> ===================================================================
> It the woman ever finds herself a man who can keep up with her he'll be one tough son of a gun. She'd run over a weakling, that's for sure.
> Ox


ROFL! :thumb:


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

Tex; If you are everything you say you are there should be big, broad-shouldered men after you like ducks after June bugs. Are you sure you're not scaring them away? (Of course, the man who is NOT scared away is the one you want.) Go get 'em girl!


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

FarmboyBill said:


> IF yiou wanna vouch for something you aint seen, that your business. I wont do it.



Lol there are just so many examples of things you most certainly vouch for that I know you have never seen with your own two eyes...and I could start with the examples in this thread. It's pretty obvious your panties are in a twist over the female side of things so I'll let it go. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. 




Mean people suck.


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## TxGypsy (Nov 23, 2006)

Oxankle said:


> Tex; If you are everything you say you are there should be big, broad-shouldered men after you like ducks after June bugs. Are you sure you're not scaring them away? (Of course, the man who is NOT scared away is the one you want.) Go get 'em girl!


There are several folks on here that know me personally and have known me for long enough to verify what I say about myself. I'll just say that I am the same on here as I am in person......and yes, I do tend to scare men.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)




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## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Nawp. Not in a wad here. But whats right is right, if only I see it that way. Whats right to you and whats right to others, is right to them.

The only ones remotely wanting to teach this old dog new tricks, is the same sex as its previous handlers. Dogs get old, but they learn and remember.


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