# Baptist preacher upsets Muslims and sympathizers



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

They don't like the church sign and want it removed. The preacher is right about everything on the sign.

http://madworldnews.com/muslims-bigoted-church-sign/


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

poppy said:


> They don't like the church sign and want it removed. The preacher is right about everything on the sign.
> 
> http://madworldnews.com/muslims-bigoted-church-sign/


Left side of the road. Anything for a vote.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

It's just another religion claiming to be the only "true" religion.
Same story, different day


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

The truth hurts.


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

_"... the Baptist church displayed a message on their sign declaring, âWake up Christians. Allah is not our God. Muhammad not greater than Jesus.â Likewise, the other side reads, âOnly the Bible is Godâs word. âHoly book.â Koran is just another book."_

Personally I don't have a problem with it. It's a lot of nonsense but it's totally the truth for Christians and they have just as much right to believe whatever nonsense they think is the truth about their god as other non-Christian people believe about their own gods. They also have a right to post that sign up in front of their own Christian church.

I would only disapprove of it if they had put that sign up in front of a Muslim mosque. That would be beyond disrespectful.

I think the people who are protesting that sign should have just ignored it for the petty nonsense that it is. They could have easily responded eye-for-eye by posting a sign in front of mosque that says _âWake up Muslims. Jesus is not our God. Jesus is not greater than Muhammad. Only the Koran is Godâs word. The Christian Bible is just another book."_ 

But I think that would have caused much worse retaliation from the Christians so perhaps the Muslims were showing more restraint than Christians are able by not posting a similar sign.

They are all behaving like silly  children. :spinsmiley: They all need to grow up. :hohum:


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

From what I've read of the historical accounts of Jesus and Mohammed, I'd say definitely Jesus is 'greater', in that he taught a far better message. 
Then again, I don't remember Jesus commanding anyone to start fights over relgion. That was more of a Moses and Mohammed thing. So are they emulating Jesus, Moses, or MOhammed with their in-your-face sign?


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

Fennick said:


> _"... the Baptist church displayed a message on their sign declaring, âWake up Christians. Allah is not our God. Muhammad not greater than Jesus.â Likewise, the other side reads, âOnly the Bible is Godâs word. âHoly book.â Koran is just another book."_
> 
> Personally I don't have a problem with it. It's a lot of nonsense but it's totally the truth for Christians and they have just as much right to believe whatever nonsense they think is the truth about their god as other non-Christian people believe about their own gods. They also have a right to post that sign up in front of their own Christian church.
> 
> ...


 Nice post, I agree 100%.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

The Christian haters are out in full force. 
You really love to alienate, mock, & deride most of the population, don't you.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Well, it is their sign and they can put whatever they like on it but I think the pastor forgot to ask himself a few important questions prior to putting it up.

1. "Is this helping to share the love of Christ?" That would be no.

2. "Is this helping to show non-believers the way to salvation?" Nope.

3. "Is this helping to draw people into our church so they can hear the message of salvation?" No.

4. "Is this helping believers develop along their spiritual walk." In no way. 


In my opinion, the message on this sign is intended as a "we're better than you" message which is not what we Christians are supposed to be about. I can think of any number of messages to put on the sign that would have provided "yes" answers to the questions above.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Well, it is their sign and they can put whatever they like on it but I think the pastor forgot to ask himself a few important questions prior to putting it up.
> 
> 1. "Is this helping to share the love of Christ?" That would be no.
> 
> ...


I think you are right. Pointing out that another religion wants to cut off your head just because you have a different faith might contain a message we are better than you. Have we lost the ability to discern right from wrong in our pursuit of tolerance? Even tolerance of those who would destroy tolerance?


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

I couldn't care less what they say. I don't believe them any more than I believe the Muslims, but I respect their right to put it on a sign they own that sits on the property they own. Call me when they start threatening to actually harm people, then we have a problem.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Just another day in the world of religious righteousness.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Tricky Grama said:


> The Christian haters are out in full force.
> You really love to alienate, mock, & deride most of the population, don't you.


Yes just another day at the office, so whats new? Been happening more and more and it sure is sicking on how fast these haters come out of the woodwork, on something that is true sore losers? When the TRUTH hits them right between the eyes? Yuppers thats it.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

SLFarmMI said:


> Well, it is their sign and they can put whatever they like on it but I think the pastor forgot to ask himself a few important questions prior to putting it up.
> 
> 1. "Is this helping to share the love of Christ?" That would be no.
> 
> ...


I'd argue the opposite. We are told to separate ourselves from evil and how will people know to do that unless evil is pointed out to them? How does it benefit Christianity to let it be seen as no different than Islam? One of the constant themes in the OT is not to allow false gods to creep into your beliefs. Allah is a false god. He bears no resemblance to the God of the Bible. In fact, he is opposite in every way. Even Christ warns of worshiping false gods. Allah is the latest version of Baal that has come through the last thousands of years. Look at the various gods people have worshiped in the ME over time.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

poppy said:


> I'd argue the opposite. We are told to separate ourselves from evil and how will people know to do that unless evil is pointed out to them? How does it benefit Christianity to let it be seen as no different than Islam? One of the constant themes in the OT is not to allow false gods to creep into your beliefs. Allah is a false god. He bears no resemblance to the God of the Bible. In fact, he is opposite in every way. Even Christ warns of worshiping false gods. Allah is the latest version of Baal that has come through the last thousands of years. Look at the various gods people have worshiped in the ME over time.


How can Islam be that different when it's based on the OT? It's where Muhammed got his inspiration. Well, actually he got his inspiration while stuck in a cave, but you know.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Tricky Grama said:


> The *Christian haters* are out in full force.
> You really love to alienate, mock, & deride most of the population, don't you.


Most of the population isn't christian.
They just claim they are when asked
*Real *Christians wouldn't be so hateful towards other religions or those who simply don't follow them


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Tricky Grama said:


> The Christian haters are out in full force.
> You really love to alienate, mock, & deride most of the population, don't you.


Isn't that EXACTLY what this Baptist preacher was doing with his sign? Alienating, mocking, and deriding Muslims? So it's ok if Christians do it to others, but you're going to cry foul when someone says something against it?

Pretty sure Jesus never was so hateful. I think he followed the "get more flies with honey" approach. You don't need to bash another's religion in order to promote yours. If this Baptist preacher was a true Christian, he'd simply praise his beliefs and not worry about others, instead of going out of his way to bash them.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

MDKatie said:


> Isn't that EXACTLY what this Baptist preacher was doing with his sign? Alienating, mocking, and deriding Muslims? So it's ok if Christians do it to others, but you're going to cry foul when someone says something against it?
> 
> Pretty sure Jesus never was so hateful. I think he followed the "get more flies with honey" approach. You don't need to bash another's religion in order to promote yours. If this Baptist preacher was a true Christian, he'd simply praise his beliefs and not worry about others, instead of going out of his way to bash them.


Pretty sure some tables got flipped.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

thericeguy said:


> Pretty sure some tables got flipped.


Maybe, if you believe everything you read.

I believe it when I see the hatred many of these so called christians spew every day. 

They are fine with "bashing" anyone who won't nod in agreement at everything they say


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## Fennick (Apr 16, 2013)

Tricky Grama said:


> The Christian haters are out in full force.
> You really love to alienate, mock, & deride most of the population, don't you.


I think you are confused.

Who posted this thread? Was it a Christian hater or a non-Christian hater? Answer: it was a non-Christian hater that posted it.

What was the point of posting it if not to try to make non-Christians look bad?

Isn't that the exactly the same reason the Baptist pastor erected that sign? It wasn't a positive, attractive, inviting message of peace and love that would make the pastor and his church look good. It was only erected to finger-point and to make non-Christians look bad.

So just exactly what kind of haters is it that are out in full force? Surely it's not Christian haters.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Fennick said:


> I think you are confused.
> 
> Who posted this thread? Was it a Christian hater or a non-Christian hater? Answer: it was a non-Christian hater that posted it.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure the sign backfired and made Christians looks bad. Same would be true so Muslims if they posted a sign like that.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Fennick said:


> I think you are confused.
> 
> Who posted this thread? Was it a Christian hater or a non-Christian hater? Answer: it was a non-Christian hater that posted it.
> 
> ...


You use the word hate awfully loosely. Is pointing out the truth now hate? Where did the sign say anything about hate? It clearly was there to inform Christians not to be deceived. The Bible is full of that same advice. Compare how many Christians you see wanting to murder Muslims for not being Christian versus how many Muslims want to murder Christians and Jews because of their faith and get back to me.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Maybe, if you believe everything you read.
> 
> I believe it when I see the hatred many of these so called christians spew every day.
> 
> They are fine with "bashing" anyone who won't nod in agreement at everything they say


It might be that we all just hate you, not necessarily everyone. Just tossing out one possibility among many. Cant speak for everyone you know.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

poppy said:


> You use the word hate awfully loosely. Is pointing out the truth now hate? Where did the sign say anything about hate? It clearly was there to inform Christians not to be deceived. The Bible is full of that same advice. Compare how many Christians you see wanting to murder Muslims for not being Christian versus how many Muslims want to murder Christians and Jews because of their faith and get back to me.


They also want to murder atheists, agnostics, Democrats, Republicans ..... Well, you get the idea. Sounds like a group we should embrace.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

thericeguy said:


> They also want to murder atheists, agnostics, Democrats, Republicans ..... Well, you get the idea. Sounds like a group we should embrace.


 Who, Muslims? Amazing that as you sit on your duff and type your divisive words, real life Muslims are out there, sometimes side by side with Christians, fighting ISIS because they don't hold those extremist beliefs you accuse them ALL of having.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

greg273 said:


> Who, Muslims? Amazing that as you sit on your duff and type your divisive words, real life Muslims are out there, sometimes side by side with Christians, fighting ISIS because they don't hold those extremist beliefs you accuse them ALL of having.


Yup. I did that. Why? Do you see those non radical Muslims in ISIS territory willing to die to stop those beliefs? Or do you see them paying the extorsion money, looking the other way when people are beheaded?

In case you havent noticed, all your power words that are supposed to frighten me; divisive, discrimination, bigot, tolerance, they mean nothing to me. I would burn the entire PC dictionary.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I love what Phil Robertson said and he compared the radical Muslim group to the Nazi regime dictator Adolph Hitler and the former USSR Communist government leader Joseph Stalin. Love it.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

thericeguy said:


> They also want to murder atheists, agnostics, Democrats, Republicans ..... Well, you get the idea. Sounds like a group we should embrace.


It's my belief that we should just leave them alone over there and let them sort out their problems on their own. They are living in a different culture and a different era and few of them will adapt to our culture. Best to keep them over there for both our good and their's. I'm not saying we shouldn't help them with food and such but introducing more arms into that area is the last thing they need. There is nothing over there that we can't do fine without, so why drag their problems into this country? It's insane.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

poppy said:


> *You use the word hate awfully loosely*. Is pointing out the truth now hate? Where did the sign say anything about hate? It clearly was there to inform Christians not to be deceived. The Bible is full of that same advice. Compare how many Christians you see wanting to murder Muslims for not being Christian versus how many Muslims want to murder Christians and Jews because of their faith and get back to me.


Scroll back to see who used it first and most


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

thericeguy said:


> It might be that *we all* just hate you, not necessarily everyone. Just tossing out one possibility among many. Cant speak for everyone you know.


Nope, that can't be it since it's not directed towards me.

You say you can't speak for everyone, but you still said "we all", once more saying one thing while doing another.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Nope, that can't be it since it's not directed towards me.
> 
> You say you can't speak for everyone, but you still said "we all", once more saying one thing while doing another.


You *might* want to look up the definition of might.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

thericeguy said:


> You *might* want to look up the definition of might.


Or I might not
You're just rambling as always
More and more I read it less and less


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

thericeguy said:


> Yup. I did that. Why? Do you see those non radical Muslims in ISIS territory willing to die to stop those beliefs? .


 Yes, and if you kept up with events there, you would as well.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

greg273 said:


> Yes, and if you kept up with events there, you would as well.


Yup. Millions upon millions of muslims unable to stop ISIS. But we see the world differently dont we?


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

thericeguy said:


> we see the world differently dont we?


 You got that right. How much do you know about the situation in Iraq/Syria? I am guessing you are not there, so where do you get your information about ISIS?


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

greg273 said:


> You got that right. How much do you know about the situation in Iraq/Syria? I am guessing you are not there, so where do you get your information about ISIS?


Lets see. Millions of Muslims. Sortof a fact, right? Cant be millions of ISIS, or they would be attacking the front lines with ground forces. Simple math does it for me. If each Muslim stabbed just 1 ISIS to death, they would be gone in days, right? How about the just tell someone where they stay, so we can blow them to hell to find their virgins.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

thericeguy said:


> Lets see. Millions of Muslims. Sortof a fact, right? Cant be millions of ISIS, or they would be attacking the front lines with ground forces. Simple math does it for me. If each Muslim stabbed just 1 ISIS to death, they would be gone in days, right? How about the just tell someone where they stay, so we can blow them to hell to find their virgins.


 Why should 'millions of muslims' go to fight a war that American rightwingers helped precipitate? Be glad the Kurdish people (MUSLIMS) are willing to get their hands dirty cleaning up the messes we've left. 

Now, are you going to answer the question I posed in the previous post, or respond with more rambing non-answers about who should be stabbing who?


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

poppy said:


> You use the word hate awfully loosely. Is pointing out the truth now hate? Where did the sign say anything about hate? It clearly was there to inform Christians not to be deceived. The Bible is full of that same advice. Compare how many Christians you see wanting to murder Muslims for not being Christian versus how many Muslims want to murder Christians and Jews because of their faith and get back to me.


Post of the day award.

Funny how the non-conservative side don't see this. 
Reminds me of the cartoon:

Guy says to a gal: I don't think women have rights & I think all gays should be hung. She says: You must be a republican! You awful person, I hate you! (it was swear words but ya get the idea) He says: No, I'm muslim. She says: Oh, I am so very sorry! I hope you didn't think I was islamaphobic!


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

greg273 said:


> Why should 'millions of muslims' go to fight a war that American rightwingers helped precipitate? Be glad the Kurdish people (MUSLIMS) are willing to get their hands dirty cleaning up the messes we've left.
> 
> Now, are you going to answer the question I posed in the previous post, or respond with more rambing non-answers about who should be stabbing who?


Might go read some history if you're going to go back to who started what. 
Ever hear the 'Battle Hymn of the Republic'. Ever hear Marines called 'leathernecks'?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Tricky Grama said:


> Might go read some history if you're going to go back to who started what.
> Ever hear the 'Battle Hymn of the Republic'. Ever hear Marines called 'leathernecks'?


I guess they think right wingers provoked the Barbary Pirates to attack ships too. They fail at history. Those people were fighting and murdering long before Muhammad was even born. I wonder if there was some liberal in 1000 BC standing on the street corner yapping about how most Arabs are good people after they invaded his/her city and slaughtered every one they could find? I'm sure there was at least one. The Arabs have not progressed from their culture of violence one bit over thousands of years. Muhammad simply created a false religion to give the murderers cover for their actions. BTW, a passenger plane went down between Paris and Egypt today. They're saying it looks like terrorism. I would ask the liberals, just off the top of your heads, would you guess those terrorists were Christians, Jews, or Muslims? Maybe I need to post a poll.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

poppy said:


> I guess they think right wingers provoked the Barbary Pirates to attack ships too. They fail at history.


 And you'd fail at RECENT history if you refuse to acknowledge the role invading Iraq in 2003 played in the rise of ISIS. And sure, Obama pretended not to see them at first, I guess he thought the $50 billion army we gave Iraq would provide 'security' for the corrupt puppet government hastily installed after the invasion. 
As to the Baptist preacher and his sign, he's stirring the pot, plain and simple. And yes, he's certainly within his rights to put whatever he wants on his church sign, doesn't make it the right, or the 'Christian' thing to do.


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## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

poppy said:


> You use the word hate awfully loosely. Is pointing out the truth now hate?


 The TRUTH is we are at war with fundamentalist, radical Islamists, NOT 'all Muslims'.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

greg273 said:


> The TRUTH is we are at war with fundamentalist, radical Islamists, NOT 'all Muslims'.


Otherwise we'd be fighting over 1 billion people. That would be quite a war.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

greg273 said:


> And you'd fail at RECENT history if you refuse to acknowledge the role invading Iraq in 2003 played in the rise of ISIS. And sure, Obama pretended not to see them at first, I guess he thought the $50 billion army we gave Iraq would provide 'security' for the corrupt puppet government hastily installed after the invasion.
> As to the Baptist preacher and his sign, he's stirring the pot, plain and simple. And yes, he's certainly within his rights to put whatever he wants on his church sign, doesn't make it the right, or the 'Christian' thing to do.


Again, you are wrong. The rise of ISIS is due to Obama's policies that led to the Arab Spring and his decision to pull completely out of Iraq.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> Again, you are wrong. The rise of ISIS is due to Obama's policies that led to the Arab Spring and his decision to pull completely out of Iraq.


"Was Obama responsible for the timing of the withdrawal?

It was President George W. Bush who signed the Status of Forces agreement in 2008, which planned for all American troops to be out of Iraq by the end of 2011."

"The Short Answer:

1. No, Obama shouldn't shoulder the full burden for the timing of the withdrawal of troops;

2. Yes, a significant American troop presence would have helped slow the growth of ISIS

But with the significant caveat that there were many other factors that enabled ISIS to become strong â and they weren't all predictable in 2011."

From: http://www.npr.org/2015/12/19/45985...draw-from-iraq-too-soon-allowing-isis-to-grow


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> "Was Obama responsible for the timing of the withdrawal?
> 
> It was President George W. Bush who signed the Status of Forces agreement in 2008, which planned for all American troops to be out of Iraq by the end of 2011."
> 
> ...



The greatest factor for the growth of ISIS is that all Muslims know what is in their religious book, even if they would not personally behead, they do not oppose those who do.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> The greatest factor for the growth of ISIS is that all Muslims know what is in their religious book, even if they would not personally behead, they do not oppose those who do.



All three religions (christian/muslim/jewish) are pretty much the same. They are all abrahamic and believe in one god and one book. All three books are pretty violent with a lot of smiting, killing, rape, incest, and such. 

Many muslims that completely disagree with the violence of the extremists. Should all christians be judged by the actions of Jim Jones, the crusades, and other extremists?


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> All three religions (christian/muslim/jewish) are pretty much the same. They are all abrahamic and believe in one god and one book. All three books are pretty violent with a lot of smiting, killing, rape, incest, and such.
> 
> Many muslims that completely disagree with the violence of the extremists. Should all christians be judged by the actions of Jim Jones, the crusades, and other extremists?


Sorry, am I missing a crusade going on right now?

List for me please the Muslim controlled vountries that practice any of the fundamental tenents of American society. Freedom of speech, religion, press, or vote. Show me the Muslim controlled countries you consider practicing inclusivity, tolerance, diversity.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Sorry, am I missing a crusade going on right now?
> 
> List for me please the Muslim controlled vountries that practice any of the fundamental tenents of American society. Freedom of speech, religion, press, or vote. Show me the Muslim controlled countries you consider practicing inclusivity, tolerance, diversity.


It doesn't matter when, it only matters that it happened. 

They aren't American are they? Why would they muslim countries have the same society and government we do? 

There are American muslims, they've been here for decades with no real violence.

ETA: I don't like religion. I think it's caused much more heartache and death than than it ever helped. It doesn't matter to me what "brand" you are either, the "big 3" are all pretty much the same.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

deleted. Wrong post


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> It doesn't matter when, it only matters that it happened.
> 
> They aren't American are they? Why would they muslim countries have the same society and government we do?
> 
> ...


Are muslims controlling the Federal govt here? Are they writing the laws? Do they have the power to set aside our way of life here and install their own? Of course there is little violence. If they stoned a woman or child to death here, they go to jail. At least until they write the laws.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Are muslims controlling the Federal govt here? Are they writing the laws? Do they have the power to set aside our way of life here and install their own? Of course there is little violence. If they stoned a woman or child to death here, they go to jail. At least until they write the laws.


OK. Why would muslim countries have a society and government like we do here? 

As you saying sharia law is coming to America? Well, if christians had there way we'd have a variation of it here already, would that appall you as well?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> OK. Why would muslim countries have a society and government like we do here?
> 
> As you saying sharia law is coming to America? Well, if christians had there way we'd have a variation of it here already, would that appall you as well?


Who said it had to be like ours? It could be like China's, Japan's, India's, or any other civilized country in the world. None of the apologists can explain why Muslims are so violent compared to all the other religions and governments in the world. How many shooting wars are going on in the world today that Muslims aren't involved in on either one side or both? How many other religions are blowing up airplanes full of civilians.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> Who said it had to be like ours? It could be like China's, Japan's, India's, or any other civilized country in the world. None of the apologists can explain why Muslims are so violent compared to all the other religions and governments in the world. How many shooting wars are going on in the world today that Muslims aren't involved in on either one side or both? How many other religions are blowing up airplanes full of civilians.


Uh, thericeguy did, "List for me please the Muslim controlled vountries that practice any of the fundamental tenents of American society. Freedom of speech, religion, press, or vote. Show me the Muslim controlled countries you consider practicing inclusivity, tolerance, diversity."

Muslim extremists are violent, muslims aren't. Are all christians in cults like Jim Jones, or was he an extremist? How many muslims did christians kill during the seven crusades? 

I don't understand why you (collective religious) insist on killing each other to try to prove that an imaginary "god" loves you more. It's ridiculous.

ETA: When do you think you'll be even?


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> Uh, thericeguy did, "List for me please the Muslim controlled vountries that practice any of the fundamental tenents of American society. Freedom of speech, religion, press, or vote. Show me the Muslim controlled countries you consider practicing inclusivity, tolerance, diversity."
> 
> Muslim extremists are violent, muslims aren't. Are all christians in cults like Jim Jones, or was he an extremist? How many muslims did christians kill during the seven crusades?
> 
> ...


Since your list of nonoppresive nonviolent Muslim countries stands at zero, we finally agree. They are ALL violent when they write the rules. They oppress women. They oppress other religions. They are a hateful violent group because their religion demands it. 

I know who I want to be the first three beheaded once they are handed the steering wheel.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Since your list of nonoppresive nonviolent Muslim countries stands at zero, we finally agree. They are ALL violent when they write the rules. They oppress women. They oppress other religions. They are a hateful violent group because their religion demands it.
> 
> I know who I want to be the first three beheaded once they are handed the steering wheel.


That isn't what I said, don't put your lies in my mouth. Thanks.

They do oppress woman, I'll give you that. But if christians had their way in the US it wouldn't be a lot better. Submit to your husband, compulsory church, no divorce unless the man wants it, no birth control, carry every pregnancy to term, etc. You (collective christians) used to make your woman cover their hair (even I can remember that) what does that remind you of? An hiijab? Hmm. 

What do you think you're (collective christians) doing to the muslim religion? You're not suppressing it? Dang. 

Were christians a hateful, violent group during the crusades? Was Jim Jones a nice man? Hitler was christian, nice or violent? And still it's muslim extremists that are violent, not every muslim. I don't really care, but hypocrisy annoys the snot out of me. 

I'll ask you the same question as poppy- When will the two religions will be even?


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> That isn't what I said, don't put your lies in my mouth. Thanks.
> 
> They do oppress woman, I'll give you that. But if christians had their way in the US it wouldn't be a lot better. Submit to your husband, compulsory church, no divorce unless the man wants it, no birth control, carry every pregnancy to term, etc. You (collective christians) used to make your woman cover their hair (even I can remember that) what does that remind you of? An hiijab? Hmm.
> 
> ...


Please compare for me the last time a Christian led war happened to well, how about a single time in human history that Muslims were not at war with someone, even themselves.

You keep bringing up the crusades, as if nothing can ever change. Do you advocate for life sentences for all criminals? They could never change, right?

You keep tolerating and being inclusive and seeking diversity. In this instance, its suicidal behaviour.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Please compare for me the last time a Christian led war happened to well, how about a single time in human history that Muslims were not at war with someone, even themselves.
> 
> You keep bringing up the crusades, as if nothing can ever change. Do you advocate for life sentences for all criminals? They could never change, right?
> 
> You keep tolerating and being inclusive and seeking diversity. In this instance, its suicidal behaviour.


Nope. Make your own sammich. I'm not scurrying to find information that is clearly not relevant to my posts. 

The diversion in your posts is excellent. The way you skirt and weave, and clearly ignore parts of posts where you don't have a pat answer, it is quite good.


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> Nope. Make your own sammich. I'm not scurrying to find information that is clearly not relevant to my posts.
> 
> The diversion in your posts is excellent. The way you skirt and weave, and clearly ignore parts of posts where you don't have a pat answer, it is quite good.


Thank you. Its called rational thought.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Thank you. Its called rational thought.


You're welcome, but it's definitely diversion. It's rational diversion- do you like that better?


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> You're welcome, but it's definitely diversion. It's rational diversion- do you like that better?


When you suggest Christians are violent and cite the crusades as evidence, followed by it doesnt matter how long ago it happened, is it rational to conclude that you never ever forgive or forget? I think so. 

So it seems reasonable and rational that you would support a life sentence for a thief. After all, they are a thief and vould never change according to your stated views. 

See how it works when you turn off emotion and turn on principles?


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> When you suggest Christians are violent and cite the crusades as evidence, followed by it doesnt matter how long ago it happened, is it rational to conclude that you never ever forgive or forget? I think so.
> 
> So it seems reasonable and rational that you would support a life sentence for a thief. After all, they are a thief and vould never change according to your stated views.
> 
> See how it works when you turn off emotion and turn on principles?


What is reasonable and rational is to just realize it happened. Christians killed muslims, muslims killed christians.... when are you (collective religious) going to be even?


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> What is reasonable and rational is to just realize it happened. Christians killed muslims, muslims kill christians.... when are you (collective religious) going to be even?


I didnt think you would follow along. Soundbytes are so much easier and get one in far less trouble than actually understanding what one is saying and why. Works for presidential candidates.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> I didnt think you would follow along. Soundbytes are so much easier and get one in far less trouble than actually understanding what one is saying and why. Works for presidential candidates.


Just because I don't post exactly the way you want me to is no reason to insult me. It's not nice.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

thericeguy said:


> Please compare for me the last time a Christian led war happened to well, how about a single time in human history that Muslims were not at war with someone, even themselves.
> 
> You keep bringing up the crusades, as if nothing can ever change. Do you advocate for life sentences for all criminals? They could never change, right?
> 
> You keep tolerating and being inclusive and seeking diversity. In this instance, its suicidal behaviour.



They can always bring up the Crusades but they forget the Crusades were totally in response to Muslin invasions. Why can't they remember that fact?


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> They can always bring up the Crusades but they forget the Crusades were totally in response to Muslin invasions. Why can't they remember that fact?


Huh. Got a cite? Cuz this is what I can find:

"*The first of the Crusades began in 1095, when armies of Christians from Western Europe responded to Pope Urban IIâs plea to go to war against Muslim forces in the Holy Land*. After the First Crusade achieved its goal with the capture of Jerusalem in 1099, the invading Christians set up several Latin Christian states, even as Muslims in the region vowed to wage holy war (jihad) to regain control over the region. Deteriorating relations between the Crusaders and their Christian allies in the Byzantine Empire culminated in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Third Crusade. Near the end of the 13th century, the rising Mamluk dynasty in Egypt provided the final reckoning for the Crusaders, toppling the coastal stronghold of Acre and driving the European invaders out of Palestine and Syria in 1291."

This an interesting link, perhaps you should read it. 

http://www.history.com/topics/crusades


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

poppy said:


> They can always bring up the Crusades but they forget the Crusades were totally in response to Muslin invasions. Why can't they remember that fact?


Emotions. Desired outcomes. Inability to accept anything that does not support a desired outcome.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Emotions. Desired outcomes. Inability to accept anything that does not support a desired outcome.


Or it could be because it's not true. What a concept, actually telling the truth (with a credible link to prove it) and not relying on emotion and rhetoric.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> What is reasonable and rational is to just realize it happened. Christians killed muslims, muslims killed christians.... when are you (collective religious) going to be even?



Could you point out how many Muslims we were fighting and killing before Al Qaeda arose and began attacking us? They sure didn't attack us because we attacked them first. Can you point out when Israel attacked Muslims without it being in response to Muslims attacking them? How many Jews are going into Gaza and blowing up buses full of "Palestinians"? How many rockets do Jews fire into Gaza or the west bank on a weekly basis aimed at civilians? How many Europeans are raping Muslim refugee women and stabbing others? How many Christian refugees from the Middle East (Arabs) are committing terror attacks in their host countries? You simply refuse to face facts in front of your fave.


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> Huh. Got a cite? Cuz this is what I can find:
> 
> "*The first of the Crusades began in 1095, when armies of Christians from Western Europe responded to Pope Urban IIâs plea to go to war against Muslim forces in the Holy Land*. After the First Crusade achieved its goal with the capture of Jerusalem in 1099, the invading Christians set up several Latin Christian states, even as Muslims in the region vowed to wage holy war (jihad) to regain control over the region. Deteriorating relations between the Crusaders and their Christian allies in the Byzantine Empire culminated in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Third Crusade. Near the end of the 13th century, the rising Mamluk dynasty in Egypt provided the final reckoning for the Crusaders, toppling the coastal stronghold of Acre and driving the European invaders out of Palestine and Syria in 1291."
> 
> ...


You forgot to start at that start. I find that common. 

http://m.lordsandladies.org/cause-of-crusades.htm


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Man, I would love to have seen your search criteria. 

Why did evil Christians murder innocent muslims. 

History of evil christians. 

Proof christians are evil

Why are muslims better than christians


These are what my inner voice tells me.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> You forgot to start at that start. I find that common.
> 
> http://m.lordsandladies.org/cause-of-crusades.htm


Don't argue with me, the link is from the history.com so go argue with them. I'm sure the "lordsandladies.org" is as credible as history.com. :facepalm: LOL Is it your site?


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Man, I would love to have seen your search criteria.
> 
> Why did evil Christians murder innocent muslims.
> 
> ...


"How did the crusades start" Well, history.com does have legit historians... I mean it's not like "lordsandladies.org" but really, what is? LOL


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Plain and simple. No conttoversy. Muslims want you dead. Your children dead. Every non Muslim dead. Their religion demands it. Even if they do not blow anyone up or chop off a head, their army will do the killing on their behalf, just like our military does for us. 

That is the definition of an enemy. Period.


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

And your link provides zero history prior to the Popes call to arms. Right? Zero.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Plain and simple. No conttoversy. Muslims want you dead. Your children dead. Every non Muslim dead. Their religion demands it. Even if they do not blow anyone up or chop off a head, their army will do the killing on their behalf, just like our military does for us.
> 
> That is the definition of an enemy. Period.


*All* muslims want *all* non muslims dead. Wow. That's a really broad brush even for you. And a complete lie. Not all muslims want anything.


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> *All* muslims want *all* non muslims dead. Wow. That's a really broad brush even for you. And a complete lie. Not all muslims want anything.


Keep clinging to that idea if they ever tell you to kneel down and hold still. Or tie you up and make you watch them kill your family, possibly by burning them alive. You think about that percent while those things happen. A species of history says my way is far more likely than your Utopian ideals.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Keep clinging to that idea if they ever tell you to kneel down and hold still. Or tie you up and make you watch them kill your family, possibly by burning them alive. You think about that percent while those things happen. A species of history says my way is far more likely than your Utopian ideals.


Oh. My. Dog. The drama, the rhetoric. Bravo, sir, bravo. :clap:


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Irish Pixie said:


> Oh. My. Dog. The drama, the rhetoric. Bravo, sir, bravo.


Its called history. Which countries that Muslims run that dont do those things again?


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Its called history. Which countries that Muslims run that dont do those things again?


An encore? :bow:


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> "How did the crusades start" Well, history.com does have legit historians... I mean it's not like "lordsandladies.org" but really, what is? LOL


Your own link gives you some detail that you overlooked. Unintentional, I'm sure. It clearly said the Crusades began because the Turks (Muslims) had invaded other lands and the people asked Rome for relief from the Muslim invaders. Get online and look at some historical maps. That was a HUGE Muslim invasion that covered a vast area and they were just as brutal as they are today.

By the end of the 11th century, Western Europe had emerged as a significant power in its own right, though it still lagged far other Mediterranean civilization such as that of the Byzantine Empire (formerly the eastern half of the Roman Empire) and the Islamic empire of the Middle East and North Africa. Meanwhile, Byzantium was losing considerable territory to the invading Seljuk Turks, who defeated the Byzantine Army at the battle of Manzikirt in 1071 and went on to gain control over much of Anatolia. After years of chaos and civil war, the general Alexius Comnenus seized the Byzantine throne in 1081 and consolidated control over the remaining empire as Emperor Alexius I.

Did You Know?
In a popular movement known as the C


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> Your own link gives you some detail that you overlooked. Unintentional, I'm sure. It clearly said the Crusades began because the Turks (Muslims) had invaded other lands and the people asked Rome for relief from the Muslim invaders. Get online and look at some historical maps. That was a HUGE Muslim invasion that covered a vast area and they were just as brutal as they are today.
> 
> By the end of the 11th century, Western Europe had emerged as a significant power in its own right, though it still lagged far other Mediterranean civilization such as that of the Byzantine Empire (formerly the eastern half of the Roman Empire) and the Islamic empire of the Middle East and North Africa. Meanwhile, Byzantium was losing considerable territory to the invading Seljuk Turks, who defeated the Byzantine Army at the battle of Manzikirt in 1071 and went on to gain control over much of Anatolia. After years of chaos and civil war, the general Alexius Comnenus seized the Byzantine throne in 1081 and consolidated control over the remaining empire as Emperor Alexius I.
> 
> ...


Yes, I saw that. The Turks took the holy land from a christian friendly sect that I can't remember the name of (it doesn't really matter, they lost). The Turks were not christian friendly so pope whatever went in to kill them so the christians could visit the holy land. Pope whatever had no hold over the land the Turks had won in battle, none. So, we're back to the christians having no business in starting the crusades.

ETA: I'm seriously impressed that you actually read the link. Good job.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I like the wiki link for a quick view of the history of Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam

Middle Eastern studies and languages were a large part of my college studies.


----------



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> OK. Why would muslim countries have a society and government like we do here?
> 
> As you saying sharia law is coming to America? Well, if christians had there way we'd have a variation of it here already, would that appall you as well?


The Christian version of Sharia law is probably canon law.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

Okay... Was there a call to commit violent acts of aggression or to infringe on anyone else' rights? No? Then I'm not sure why this is still a discussion.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Heritagefarm said:


> The Christian version of Sharia law is probably canon law.


I had thought it only referred to catholic law, but Google tells me it's ecclesiastical law.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, I saw that. The Turks took the holy land from a christian friendly sect that I can't remember the name of (it doesn't really matter, they lost). The Turks were not christian friendly so pope whatever went in to kill them so the christians could visit the holy land. Pope whatever had no hold over the land the Turks had won in battle, none. So, we're back to the christians having no business in starting the crusades.
> 
> ETA: I'm seriously impressed that you actually read the link. Good job.


So, in your way of thinking, the Muslims took the land away from Christians and it was wrong for the Christians to try to get it back?


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> So, in your way of thinking, the Muslims took the land away from Christians and it was wrong for the Christians to try to get it back?


I don't think the people that the Turks took it away from were christian, do you have a cite? They _were_ christian friendly.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Here is a glimpse of life under Muslim rule. Have any of you ever heard of this place as a terrorist hotspot. Heck, I never heard of it at all until reading this. This is ordinary life under Muslim rule. Lets all be sure and support this lifestyle under the guise of diversity and tolerance, lest the PC police call you mean. 

The story: http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/19/opinions/sutter-mauritania-slavery-convictions/index.html

Who runs the show there: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritania


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Irish Pixie said:


> I don't think the people that the Turks took it away from were christian, do you have a cite? They _were_ christian friendly.


Here'a a good site detailing dates and events. The Arabs were taking all the property they could take. Scroll down to the bottom and check the color code to make it easier to understand which group did what and when. I've also seen it on maps. The Muslims overran vast areas of land and probably less than 5% of that land was retaken by the Crusades.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blchron_xian_crusades01.htm


----------



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

I found this. Thought it was interesting:

http://www.dianedew.com/islam.htm



> On Murder and Violence:
> 
> Islam both allows and forbids murder and violence, depending on who is the recipient of the act.
> 
> ...


The sections about women are just as backward:



> Z Islam Teaches...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I had to go off just these verses, I'd say I'd hang with Christians any day. The fundies can still be whack jobs, though; wife beaters, radical-right anti-everything ninnies.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Heritagefarm said:


> I found this. Thought it was interesting:
> 
> http://www.dianedew.com/islam.htm
> 
> ...


But Christians dont go for genocide.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

thericeguy said:


> But Christians dont go for genocide.


Hitler did. I'm not sure if he qualified as a Christian, though, because soon he replaced all the Bibles with Mein Kampf. Subtle.

ETA: In the OT genocide was as common as a side dish. "Would you like some genocide with your fires?" There aren't many modern examples, aside from various wars during the colonial era and the Native Americans. OK fine, America was basically, ironically, built on suppression. Slavery, war, religious intolerance. Our beginnings are not as grand as you'd like to believe.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Heritagefarm said:


> Hitler did. I'm not sure if he qualified as a Christian, though, because soon he replaced all the Bibles with Mein Kampf. Subtle.
> 
> ETA: In the OT genocide was as common as a side dish. "Would you like some genocide with your fires?" There aren't many modern examples, aside from various wars during the colonial era and the Native Americans. OK fine, America was basically, ironically, built on suppression. Slavery, war, religious intolerance. Our beginnings are not as grand as you'd like to believe.


You keep bringing up Hitler. Hillary attends churches. Talks about her deep faith. She gets quoted as saying she will put them Christians in their place. Do you honestly and sincerely believe in your heart that people attempting to rise to global power never lie to achieve that power?


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Heritagefarm said:


> Hitler did. I'm not sure if he qualified as a Christian, though, because soon he replaced all the Bibles with Mein Kampf. Subtle.
> 
> ETA: In the OT genocide was as common as a side dish. "Would you like some genocide with your fires?" There aren't many modern examples, aside from various wars during the colonial era and the Native Americans. OK fine, America was basically, ironically, built on suppression. Slavery, war, religious intolerance. Our beginnings are not as grand as you'd like to believe.


Hitler was not Christian. He was very fond of Islam and said so. He admired the brutal ways they kept their enemies in line. Hitler never set out to kill the Jews. He only wanted to deport them. His friend, the Muslim grand mufti of Jerusalem, prodded him to kill them so they would not return to Jerusalem once deported.


----------



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

thericeguy said:


> You keep bringing up Hitler. Hillary attends churches. Talks about her deep faith. She gets quoted as saying she will put them Christians in their place. Do you honestly and sincerely believe in your heart that people attempting to rise to global power never lie to achieve that power?


Hillary is just another liberal money-politics machine. You have more to fear from Trump, IMO.


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Heritagefarm said:


> Hillary is just another liberal money-politics machine. You have more to fear from Trump, IMO.


See the post above. Dont ignore the real meat of my post as a diversion. It is insincere.


----------



## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

thericeguy said:


> Plain and simple. No conttoversy. Muslims want you dead. Your children dead. Every non Muslim dead. Their religion demands it. Even if they do not blow anyone up or chop off a head, their army will do the killing on their behalf, just like our military does for us.
> 
> That is the definition of an enemy. Period.


 Such non factual, broad-brush nonsense. You're really on a roll there ricedude.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Heritagefarm said:


> Hillary is just another liberal money-politics machine. You have more to fear from Trump, IMO.


How do you figure that? Trump is much less likely to go to war than Clinton. Trump understands that strength prevents wars. Clinton is a complete failure. Remember her reset with Russia? How's that going? I guess that goofy button she gave him didn't impress him much. Just look at everything she touched as Secretary of State.


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

greg273 said:


> Such non factual, broad-brush nonsense. You're really on a roll there ricedude.


Did you read the first line of Heritages post? Or maybe you think they will kill everyone buy you, cause you are inclusive. They dont care. Read it.


----------



## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

poppy said:


> Again, you are wrong. The rise of ISIS is due to Obama's policies that led to the Arab Spring and his decision to pull completely out of Iraq.


 A half-truth is still a lie poppy. ISIS would have never gotten started without the invasion in 2003. All that chaos fueled the rise of the sectarian militias, and gave ISIS the room it needed, as far back as *2006*. You're completely delusional if you think Obama caused ANYTHING in Iraq in 2006. 
He followed Bushs timetable, he dealt with the corrupt Iraqi Shia dominated govt, he refused to grant Iraq jurisdiction over our troops, in other words, he gave Iraq back to the Iraqis, following the agreement signed by Dubya. How was Obama to know the $50 billion army Bush gave the Iraqis would be stolen and used to carve out the 'Islamic State'. You want to blame Obama for not fixing the Neo-Cons mess...lol nice try, but history, and the average Iraqi citizen KNOWS when the troubles began in earnest... They'll tell you Saddam was bad, but post 2003 has been an absolute NIGHTMARE. 
If you'd pull your head out of the 'FOX' news hole, you'd see it plain as day.


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

greg273 said:


> A half-truth is still a lie poppy. ISIS would have never gotten started without the invasion in 2003. All that chaos fueled the rise of the sectarian militias, and gave ISIS the room it needed, as far back as *2006*. You're completely delusional if you think Obama caused ANYTHING in Iraq in 2006.
> He followed Bushs timetable, he dealt with the corrupt Iraqi Shia dominated govt, he refused to grant Iraq jurisdiction over our troops, in other words, he gave Iraq back to the Iraqis, following the agreement signed by Dubya. How was Obama to know the $50 billion army Bush gave the Iraqis would be stolen and used to carve out the 'Islamic State'. You want to blame Obama for not fixing the Neo-Cons mess...lol nice try, but history, and the average Iraqi citizen KNOWS when the troubles began in earnest... They'll tell you Saddam was bad, but post 2003 has been an absolute NIGHTMARE.
> If you'd pull your head out of the 'FOX' news hole, you'd see it plain as day.


Who put Saddam in power?


----------



## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

thericeguy said:


> Who put Saddam in power?


 Who nurtured him, provided him with weapons? Satellite recon of Iranian troop positions? Pre-cursors to chemical weapons and technical help?


----------



## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

greg273 said:


> Who nurtured him, provided him with weapons? Satellite recon of Iranian troop positions? Pre-cursors to chemical weapons and technical help?


The US. What lesson is there to be learned? Noriega?


----------



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

poppy said:


> How do you figure that? Trump is much less likely to go to war than Clinton. Trump understands that strength prevents wars. Clinton is a complete failure. Remember her reset with Russia? How's that going? I guess that goofy button she gave him didn't impress him much. Just look at everything she touched as Secretary of State.


I just think Ttump would @&$% everyone off. 



thericeguy said:


> See the post above. Dont ignore the real meat of my post as a diversion. It is insincere.


Your arguments are not so iron clad that I cannot ignore them.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

thericeguy said:


> Who put Saddam in power?


In reading it would appear he was being backed by the Nixon administration, rose to full power in Carters, it was still the US and Britain's crappy foreign policy that has been the prime driver for unrest in the ME.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Heritagefarm said:


> I just think Ttump would @&$% everyone off.
> 
> 
> 
> Your arguments are not so iron clad that I cannot ignore them.


Lots of us have been @&$%*# off for a long time by politicians who try to make everyone happy. That's not their job. They are supposed to do what's best for the country as a whole. I think Trump will get along with foreign leaders much better than this administration has. At least he will be able to make his case in a manner they understand and they will know he means it. That alone prevents many conflicts. Drawing red lines and then ignoring them only teaches your enemies you aren't serious about anything you say. I'm sure I would disagree with some thing Trump would do. I have with every president in my lifetime and I don't expect Trump to be any different in that regard. However, I am convinced Trump would be a leader and we haven't had a leader for a long time. Clinton promises to lead us on important issues like LGBT rights while Trump talks about issues important to our country.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

coolrunnin said:


> In reading it would appear he was being backed by the Nixon administration, rose to full power in Carters, it was still the US and Britain's crappy foreign policy that has been the prime driver for unrest in the ME.


Nothing says someone who is a good guy today won't be a bad guy down the road. Lots of people change once they get power and it goes to their head. Look at Obama. Promised the most transparent administration in history and said he would unite the country. Once in power, he did the opposite.


----------



## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

poppy said:


> Lots of us have been @&$%*# off for a long time by politicians who try to make everyone happy. That's not their job. They are supposed to do what's best for the country as a whole. I think Trump will get along with foreign leaders much better than this administration has. At least he will be able to make his case in a manner they understand and they will know he means it. That alone prevents many conflicts. Drawing red lines and then ignoring them only teaches your enemies you aren't serious about anything you say. I'm sure I would disagree with some thing Trump would do. I have with every president in my lifetime and I don't expect Trump to be any different in that regard. However, I am convinced Trump would be a leader and we haven't had a leader for a long time. Clinton promises to lead us on important issues like LGBT rights while Trump talks about issues important to our country.


I agree when you put it like that. I just simply can't stand him.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

poppy said:


> Nothing says someone who is a good guy today won't be a bad guy down the road. Lots of people change once they get power and it goes to their head. Look at Obama. Promised the most transparent administration in history and said he would unite the country. Once in power, he did the opposite.


But we have a pretty bad track record of picking some pretty bad people to back, maybe we need to do some changes.

Cuba, Vietnam, banana republics in south America, yup we have backed some real winners...


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## thericeguy (Jan 3, 2016)

Post a link about those peace loving Muslims having slaves and their very vocal backers get very quiet very quick. Must have been sleepy all of a sudden.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> Hitler was not Christian. He was very fond of Islam and said so. He admired the brutal ways they kept their enemies in line. Hitler never set out to kill the Jews. He only wanted to deport them. His friend, the Muslim grand mufti of Jerusalem, prodded him to kill them so they would not return to Jerusalem once deported.


Credible link, please!


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

poppy said:


> Here'a a good site detailing dates and events. The Arabs were taking all the property they could take. Scroll down to the bottom and check the color code to make it easier to understand which group did what and when. I've also seen it on maps. The Muslims overran vast areas of land and probably less than 5% of that land was retaken by the Crusades.
> 
> http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blchron_xian_crusades01.htm


What was the name of the people the Turks took the holy land from? I just want to know if they're christian, and since you said they were, you get to provide the proof.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> You keep bringing up Hitler. Hillary attends churches. Talks about her deep faith. She gets quoted as saying she will put them Christians in their place. Do you honestly and sincerely believe in your heart that people attempting to rise to global power never lie to achieve that power?


A clumsy diversion. Not up to your usual level, I'll give it a 1.5 out of 5.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

thericeguy said:


> Post a link about those peace loving Muslims having slaves and their very vocal backers get very quiet very quick. Must have been sleepy all of a sudden.


So did all the christians back further than we are a country. Some christians had to have there &*% kicked in order to give them up, and that was only 150 years ago.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> So did all the christians back further than we are a country. Some christians had to have there &*% kicked in order to give them up, and that was only 150 years ago.


Most of the ones that died didn't even own slaves :facepalm:


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

TripleD said:


> Most of the ones that died didn't even own slaves :facepalm:


Does that change the fact that some (like I said in my prior post) _christians_ owned slaves?


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Does that change the fact that some (like I said in my prior post) _christians_ owned slaves?


Nope! Non-Christians owned them as well......


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

TripleD said:


> Nope! Non-Christians owned them as well......


Yes, they did. Although when you didn't believe in god or weren't a christian it wasn't safe to announce it.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, they did. Although when you didn't believe in god or weren't a christian it wasn't safe to announce it.


Yes, that happened to the Indians as well, I think. You can never trust people who aren't of the same religion you know.



Irish Pixie said:


> A clumsy diversion. Not up to your usual level, I'll give it a 1.5 out of 5.


I've got enough red herrings to feed myself for a while now.


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