# What's next



## stanley (Aug 22, 2011)

I am new to LGD after losing some poultry this spring I found a 3 year old GP that was raised with his parents on a working farm brought him in and he is working out wonderful. I have 27 acres with cross fencing etc. he is not able to patrol the whole area so I keep him close to the poultry. I also have nigerian goats icelandic sheep guinea hogs you get the picture. Coyotes are moving into the area so I want to get another LGD to help out. Should I get another GP or should I look at other breeds.
Will a LGD be content with almost no human contact. Should I move them around or keep them in their specific areas


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

You need to do your homework.
http://www.livestockguardiandogs.com/stop-before-you-buy-that-lgd-t41.html
And as far as contact....don't you plan on ever feeding your dog? Don't you plan on walking your fencelines to check them and looking at your stock? I would hope you plan on interacting with the dog to that extent and not just dumping it out there and never checking it. You can't buy a puppy and put it out back in the acreage - it will be killed. You need to run it with the older dog to learn, and it can't be on its own for a long long time. If you buy an older started dog, you need to introduce it to the Pyr. You have a lot of questions to ask yourself first (please see above link) and need to sit down and really assess your situation. LGD's are not push-button solutions to everything, so please PLEASE do your research on breeds (books, Internet) FIRST....and honestly assess your experience with dogs before you decide on ANY LGD - purebred, crossbred or what ever. You want to do this in the most responsible savvy way possible. So take a deep breath.....and read back on lots of these posts here and on other places so you can get a feel for what is out there. Good luck and take your time.


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## stanley (Aug 22, 2011)

Goatress said:


> You need to do your homework.
> And as far as contact....don't you plan on ever feeding your dog? Don't you plan on walking your fencelines to check them and looking at your stock? I would hope you plan on interacting with the dog to that extent and not just dumping it out there and never checking it.


I should have said limited human contact a few hours a day I check all of my livestock twice a day. I am used to having "pet" dogs who stay at the house and have contact all throughout the day.I am doing research now since the coyotes are not yet a problem but I expect them to be in the next couple of years. I have read the the site you refere to and reading most of the post here. I guess my two biggest questions are can I have two happy dogs that stay separated from each other and should I (after training/socialization) keep each dog in it's own area or can I rotate areas without creating tension. Can I keep the dogs together during the day and place each in it's protection zone at night. 
I appreciate all the information I am gleaning from people who have had LGD's for a long time


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## westbrook (May 10, 2002)

work in pairs of opposite sex. pet, brush, tummy rubs, car rides...socialization off the farm is very important.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

stanley said:


> I am new to LGD after losing some poultry this spring I found a 3 year old GP that was raised with his parents on a working farm brought him in and he is working out wonderful. I have 27 acres with cross fencing etc. he is not able to patrol the whole area so I keep him close to the poultry. I also have nigerian goats icelandic sheep guinea hogs you get the picture. Coyotes are moving into the area so I want to get another LGD to help out. Should I get another GP or should I look at other breeds.
> *Will a LGD be content with almost no human contact.* Should I move them around or keep them in their specific areas


Do people read this forum? If they did they would know this answer. Sorry but this tells me you havent done your homework on LGD's.


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## stanley (Aug 22, 2011)

Fowler said:


> Do people read this forum? If they did they would know this answer. Sorry but this tells me you havent done your homework on LGD's.


My problem is I am receiving conflicting information. Most of the local farms use GP's I was told by more than one owner not to socialize the dogs & have limited contact with them. They are working dogs and should be imprinted on the livestock they protect. I was told leave it on the farm with the livestock it is to protect & treat it just like a sheep or goat.
The 3 year old male I bought acts just like a "Pet Dog" the biggest difference from the German Shepherds I had is the low preditor instinct. If he tries to play with an animal and it runs he does not give chase as the GS would.
From reading this and other forums I get the impression that LGD's can be treated as pet dogs and they will still guard the "flock" I need to add I only have 27 acres with my house in the center so the dog is never truely away from the house.


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## stanley (Aug 22, 2011)

Back to my original questions
Coyotes are moving into the area so I want to get another LGD to help out. Should I get another GP or should I look at other breeds.
Can I have two happy dogs that stay separated from each other and should I (after training/socialization) keep each dog in it's own area or can I rotate areas without creating tension. 
Can I keep the dogs together during the day and place each in it's protection zone at night.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I just posted a newlink under this forum it's very informative.

The dogs needs socialization. They do need human contact. They are not your normal household pets. They will bond with your livestock and your family if done properly. I do NOT agree with others to just through an LGD out to pasture and ignore them. There is a better way. Read all the information that you can.

I bought my first 2 puppies and trained them myself with the help of others here and READING it takes time and patients to train them. Once you have, they are a valued worker. They will also have needs, such as nail trimming, vetted, brushed, bathed, which consist of also bonding with you on a limited bases. If you want to just through a dog into a field and leave it, Im afraid I will not be able to help you later when you have issues that need attention with your LGD. These are very smart dogs and deserve the same respect that they will give you and your livestock. You eventually will be able to seperate them to guard different areas, but they will not be mature till they are 12-18 months old or even 2 years. And again you are stating placing them in seperate areas which does no good for back up if they cannot access each other.


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## stanley (Aug 22, 2011)

Thats the reason I am asking all of these questions to clarify what I am reading. I feel a strong resposibility to any animal I bring onto my farm and do not want to cause problems to it me or my current animals.
I do not want to throw the dog into a field and forget about it but from what I was told before I was afraid to socialize it too much. Now I see that it can be socialized and still be a good guardian.
One of my problems is cross fencing is there a solution allowing the dogs to go from pasture to pasture while keeping my livestock seperated?


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## Mrs. Mucket (Apr 22, 2010)

stanley said:


> One of my problems is cross fencing is there a solution allowing the dogs to go from pasture to pasture while keeping my livestock seperated?


There are some solutions depending on the size of the livestock. For large animals, sometimes a low opening can be left for the dogs. But that won't work for chickens, so we are looking at heavy hanging plastic strips (strip doors), teaching the LGDs to go through them but hoping it will be too heavy for chickens to comfortably push through.

Also, we are putting the openings at the far edge of the chicken paddocks, not close to where the chickens spend most of their time. Some will go that far but others won't. Even so, I expect a few escapees.

As for socialization, many people are afraid to spend time with their LGDs thinking it will lessen their effectiveness as guardians. But I think it makes them more well-rounded. The key is to do it in their designated work area--you going into their pastures, not letting them come outside to see you unless that's part of their work area. We have Maremmas that patrol the area including our house and chicken yard, and we pet/praise/hug them anywhere inside the fence, but they have never been in the house. 

I would be careful not to think of them as typical pet dogs, but as working dogs that are partners on the farm and part of your life. Where most pets are for our enjoyment, the top priority of the LGD should be to guard whatever it is assigned to guard.

You can change a dog's work area but I wouldn't recommend switching them daily. They patrol and watch 24/7. If you have a breed that bonds with its stock, it might cause confusion to move them back and forth so often. 

I don't know about Pyrs with coyotes, but I know our Maremmas keep coyotes away. Coyotes frequently cross our property outside the pasture fences, and we can always tell when by the Maremmas' "coyote bark." We have watched the coyotes staying back and deciding to move on.


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

I agree Mrs. Mucket.

My rams are in a seperate paddock and have been tramitized by a coyote attack. Every evening I walk my maremma's to their paddock with me there to supervise. They lick their face and sniff then walk off to patrol the fenceline. My rams are unsure of them and one trys to run, which leads ziggy to want to play. I still have to correct ziggy and assure the ram that "it's okay" I have found that's the secret word. Now my ewes wont move at all when they dogs come to check them out, that shows me that they trust them.

You have to make a commitment to ensure that everyone does their job. My 2 LGD's are bounded to my grandsons also and watch them along with the sheep. I do not allow my grandsons to play with them. Just a hug and a pet and that is usually all they want. If you put in the work you will be greatly rewarded.


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## Mrs. Mucket (Apr 22, 2010)

I agree it's a commitment to do the training, introductions, instilling trust, etc. but so worth it!



Fowler said:


> My 2 LGD's are bounded to my grandsons also and watch them along with the sheep.


We have seen some interesting "multi-tasking" when our grandkids are here. The dogs are always mindful of the children as well as the chickens, often sitting somewhere between the chicken yard and the kids' play area. One day both dogs jumped up and took off toward some noise. Then one dog stopped, barked at the other, and returned to stand by the kids. He stood there, watching in the other dog's direction but guarding the kids until the "danger" was gone and the other dog returned.


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## stanley (Aug 22, 2011)

These are the type of answers I am looking for Love the plastic strip idea to keep chickens in (or out)
Thanks guys


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## Faithful (Jul 15, 2011)

I agree you will have to worki will you new Guardian with you stock and your other great pyr.We have had Anatolian shepherds for many years and it takes time to train a good guardian.
www.livestockguardianangels.com
501-847-8488
you can call me if you want.


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