# lumpy jaw



## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

This morning I was admiring the udder on one of my young two year olds, then to my horror I noticed something else--a big lump on her left jaw. I felt it and it is firm.

A couple of years ago I saw this in another goat and took her to the vet. Lumpy jaw, he said, and put her down.  

I believed from what I read that it could have been caused by something stickery getting stuck in her jaw. We, sadly, have a lot of stickery things in the field.

Before I take this goat in, y'all please give me some advice. What would you do?


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## sungirl (Jan 23, 2008)

Get her tested for CL and move her to a pen atleast 100 feet away from the others. CL isn't something to mess with. It could be she just pricked herself.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

From the Fiasco Farm Website:

* Milk Neck - If the swelling is soft, is located on the chin/throat, right where the chin and throat meet, and the goat is a kid. It is probably Milk Neck. The size of the swelling varies greatly, from barely noticeable, to quire large. It is soft. It is not a hard lump.
** Bottle Jaw - If the swelling is further up on the chin, on the jaw, this could be "bottle jaw" which is a sign of severe parasite infestation. It is soft. It is not a hard lump. The goat needs to be wormed with a chemical wormer ASAP. If not treated right away, death could result. This usually happens in adults goats, not kids.*
* CL - If it is a hard lump, usually about the size of a quarter, and is located in the area of a lymph glad, it could be CL (Caseous Lymphadenitis) and you should consider having it looked at by a vet.
* Vaccination Abscess - If it is a hard lump and is near a site that recently was the site of a vaccination injection, it could be a vaccination abscess- reaction to the injection. When we used to vaccinate, we had goats get abscesses at the injection site all the time. The bump will go away eventually, but may take up to a year to do so. It also may (or may not) come to a head and burst, but it is not contagious.
* Insect Sting. - If it is a small hard lump, it could be the result of an insect sting.


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

... maybe a salivary cyst? 
susie, mo ozarks


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## MisFitFarm (Dec 31, 2007)

I'm no expert, but I don't think it's Cl, I could be wrong though. Some people we knew had CL on their place, and I don't remember it looking like that. That looks like it's in the wrong place. Maybe it's a splinter or salivary cyst like Yarrow suggested. Good luck! Take your time and explore all options before you have her put down, she's a beauty.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I'd get a fecal test run to find out about her worm load.


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## KimM (Jun 17, 2005)

If she were mine, I'd take her in and have a blood test done. Then I'd have the vet take a good look inside her mouth. Could be a tooth problem or a thorn embedded in there or like someone else said, a salivary gland issue.


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

Rose said:


> I'd get a fecal test run to find out about her worm load.


what does that has to do with the abscess on her cheek?

bottle jaw is soft tissue and would be evenly on both sides.
i agree, it could be a splinter or an abscessed tooth. i would test her for cl.


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## wooly1s (Apr 5, 2006)

We had a llama with a similar lump (hard). Our was a bone infection of some sort, and when the neighbor's llama had it, it was a tooth abcess. We used antibiotics, theirs was drained and cleansed. 

Sometimes we need a veterinary opinion, even if it is the worst news , to ensure the health of the rest of the herd...hope yours is something easily treated.


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

as low as it is on her jaw, I too was wondering about a tooth root abcess... sure hope it's not CL. she looks like a lovely you lady.
susie, mo ozarks


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Bottle jaw is a symptom of severe worm load, according to the Fiasco Farm website, as well as numerous other websites on goats.

Do a search on "bottle jaw goats" and see what you find.

Here's a website with pictures and short explanation:
http://www.barnonemeatgoats.com/wormsorno.html

From www.sheepandgoat.com
The parasites that cause the most damage to sheep and goats are stomach worms and coccidia. Stomach worms can cause substantial death loss in sheep and goats, if left unchecked. The barber pole worm (Haemonchus contortis) is the stomach worm of primary concern. *It is a microscopic, blood-sucking parasite that pierces the lining of the abomasum (the ruminant's "true" stomach) and causes blood and protein loss and anemia, as evidenced by pale mucous membranes (lower eye lid, gums, etc.) and/or "bottle jaw," an accumulation of fluid under the jaw. *

From www.goatworld.com
*Bottle Jaw (often mis-spelled as "bottlejaw") is characterized by a hardened swelling beneath the jaw (as seen in pictures above) and is most often caused by worms or liver flukes.* It can also be seen when a goat is weak or becoming ill. This can be a symptom of a goat that is sick or is becoming sick. Quite often, worming will cure this condition but one should also consider other herd health management techniques as found in the Goats & Health section and the Worms & Parasites section. A typical treatment plan includes the use of vitamin B12 injections and/or the administration of a product called Red CellÂ® as well as worming the goat.

From dairygoatinfo.com
In my experience, this sudden appearance of anemia and weakness with either normal, or subnormal, temp (and sometimes swelling under the jaw as well) is classic when a goat's system is severely parasitized by Liver fluke. It commonly shows up in young ruminants exposed to pastures containing wet areas, and it's not unusual for kids and lambs affected with it to die so fast they hardly have time to be sick.Â¹


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## looneytunes (Nov 2, 2006)

Bottle jaw usually starts at the back of the mouth the lower jaw and runs into the neck line.Most of the time it will be smaller in the morning then grow during the day , due to the goats eating with their heads down,its not hard either until it gets full at days end. If you can get the goat by herself somewhere and watch this spot ,watch for hair around the area falling off,if you can do this next step you may want to try this. Take a hoddy knife an make a cut it to the lump , see if you can get anything out of this lump,it may look like toothpaste if it comes out.Make sure you are got on rubber gloves when you do this that you can throw away.Also keeep this areas clean if you try this.As I always tell people at the end of my posting I am no vet. so you my want to contact a new vet. before taking any advice off the web. Good Luck!


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## Loda Farm (Mar 5, 2006)

It does not look like CL to me either. The Cl lumps I have seen have been right under their ears. One of my goats had a smaller size lump in the same place as yours. I freaked out, and called vet. Turns out she was saving her cud for later in her cheek. I started calling her hamster mouth. LOL

Laura


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

rose bottle jaw is not a firm abscess like this one. bottle jaw is squishy feeling, like a soft filled ball and contributed evenly around the neck.


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## wooly1s (Apr 5, 2006)

I must respectfully disagree! I would not recommend lancing the lump unless you have a veterinary opinion. On the outside chance it is CL - and not a tooth or bone abcess as we are hoping, you will infect your farm and soil for years!!! How much is the doe worth to you, and how much is continuing to keep ruminants on the farm worth? 
Sometimes a vet bill can seem unbearable for one animal, but if it protects the livelihood of the herd and farm, it is worth the investment. An abcess on a a goat's jaw is a good thing to check.
I could be wrong, but this does not look like bottle jaw to me from the one picture.


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## Teacupliz (Nov 20, 2003)

I say a tooth abcess I have seen them in goats and cows- given its own time it will pop and drain away-
It is not in the area of CL-
If she is eating she should be fine-
Liz


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## xoxoGOATSxoxo (Jul 29, 2006)

I had this just a few weeks ago. We got a vet out to lance it, but it was too late and popped on it's own. Luckily, it wasnt CL, the vet said. Not a tooth either. just a stick. Vet cleaned it, then prescribed 2 shot of antibiotic a day, plus washing with epsom salts. It' s completely gone now. 

So, I'd call a vet just in case, but not worry about it in the meantime. It's probably nothing. 

Hope she's ok!


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## Lizza (Nov 30, 2005)

With our doe that we found a CL lump a few months ago, it didn't look like that at all, it was right under her ear, kind of down on her jaw (in her lymph nodes), but it still didn't look like that. I would vote for a tooth abscess, if we are voting. A decent goat vet should be able to tell you though (and test for CL of course).


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Thanks for all the opinions and advice. My problem, I guess, is that I went to the only livestock vet that I know of in the area with this exact problem in a goat a couple of years ago. He did no testing. He felt the lump, declared it to be "lumpy jaw" and put down the goat.

How do y'all find good goat vets? 

Since I will most likely be going back to the same vet, what do I ask him to do? If he draws fluid, will that not cause it to leak and be problematic?

I couldn't go in yesterday, and won't today because of the rain in the area, but will likely take her in tomorrow. I'm afraid the vet will declare the problem hopeless without ever finding out what the actual problem is.


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

if you go in with her, let him check our her teeth first. then let him draw blood for testing and wait for the result before next action .


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Thanks, Susanne. I think that is what I will do. Is the blood test considered pretty accurate? Someone else had suggested that I have him send in fluid from the lump; that's why I asked about it causing leakage.
mary


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

normally the most accurate result would be from the puss itself. but in an active case, like this, titer should rise and indicate the true status. i would not allow anybody to poke in there if there is a slight chance it could be cl. an abscess needs to be removed intact to prevent contamination. the area where the abscess is on your goat has very big blood vessels and some vets do not want to cut there without having the goat under anesthesia.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Today I had Mallory down to the vet clinic, and saw a different vet than last time. He examined it closely, also checking lymph nodes. 

He did not think it was cl, but rather thought it was probably an abcessed tooth. He did not feel anything like a splinter or burr.

He did draw out fluid, which will be cultured, and squirt in some antiseptic. He didn't want to lance on the outside chance of it being cl.

He suggested that I switch from Penicillin to Biomycin, and give it for three days, and he'll call me next week when the culture comes in.

Oh, and he did suggest that I separate her until then, which I have done.

Thanks for all advice. I'll let y'all know how this turns out.

mary


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## Lizi (May 21, 2006)

Just wondering...if a goat has a lump and it drains, will it come back in the same spot again? Had this happen, makes me wonder if it was CL. Does the site move? Thanks. Lizi


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

wooly1s said:


> Sometimes we need a veterinary opinion, even if it is the worst news , to ensure the health of the rest of the herd...hope yours is something easily treated.


Still, it's good to go to a vet having a little information of your own. A vet who says "lumpy jaw" and puts the goat down worries me. "Lumpy jaw" to my mind is not a diagnosis. I think maybe I'd get somebody strong to help hold her mouth wide open, then use a flashlight and thorougly investigate the area from the inside as well as the outside. If I couldn't find anything suspiciuos, then maybe I'd try to use a syringe with a large needle to aspirate some of the material from the lump, then take it in and get it cultured, including testing for CL. Also, maybe If it doesn't come back positive for CL, then antibiotics and removing the irritant should do the trick, but at least then you'll be able to argue when the vet tells you to put her down. "Lumpy jaw" indeed!


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

The results of the culture came back today, negative.:sing:
The vet suggested just waiting a couple of weeks to see if the issue resolves itself, since it does not seem to be distressing her.
Thanks for all advice and encouragement.
mary


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## susanne (Nov 4, 2004)

thank you for the update mary. that is indeed good news.


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## Lane Linnenkohl (Dec 20, 2007)

Before you spend any more money, reach your finger into the mouth to see if it's cud. That's what it looks like to me. 

Maybe you've already checked, if so nevermind.

Lane


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Lane, the vet felt carefully inside her mouth when I had her in, and told me he didn't feel anything in it. He thought it might be a bit of undissolved baby tooth or something of that nature that would eventually take care of itself. We'll see. But it's not cud. (good thought, though.)

BTW, the reason I posted the update to the original thread is that when I came home from the vet, I had thought to read up more on this phenomenon, and had typed into google "goat + tooth + abcess" and was surprised to get my own thread in the Number 2 search position. It occurred to me then that if someone else did that, they'd want to see the update in the same thread!

mary


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Today I had Mallory back in to the vet to have that abcess opened and cleaned out. Yuck! I had thought that I'd want to see it done before I ever tried it myself. After seeing it done, and only paying 22.50 for it, I think it's worth paying the vet to do it.

Here's what I wanted to add, though. The vet checked closely for a tooth problem, but didn't find one. He said that because he felt some necrosis in the jaw, he suspected that perhaps she had been bitten by something poisonous which started all this.

I guess we'll never know.

mary


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## Minelson (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm glad everything worked out for Mallory...And I can relate with the "yuck" experience. I had a horse with strangles and I was "lucky" to be there when it opened up and started draining....It was the first time I ever almost fainted from being totally grossed out


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Mary, at least you can rest at ease that it isn't CL! I've been wondering if you had gotten the results back yet! Whew. Glad it is getting better. I know it's a yuckky job, cleaning out those abcesses. The steer we had that done on is STILL draining pus and yuckky stuff from his jaw! Jan in Co


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

Jan, how long ago did you have it done? The vet seemed to think it would be okay in a few days, but I'm doubtful. It looks pretty nasty now. I separated her and her kids from the rest of the goats when I brought her back yesterday just because it looks so awful, even though the vet said I don't have to.
mary


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Mary, I think it was two months ago that the vet lanced the steer's abcess. He gave one dose of antibiotics then, and we've given several more since then. He's finally clearing up a bit, but it was the size of a baseball, and the vet made some huge incisions in it. Still sore, as he doesn't want anyone touching it, but we're getting there. Wish I'd taken care of it myself when it was smaller, and not relied on the mobile vet, who kept putting off coming to check him due to cold weather, forgetting, etc! Jan in Co


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## GoatNamedDunn (Jun 20, 2008)

My goat Dunn (a pygmy whether) and I have had nearly the same experience as you! I woke up one morning to find this huge lump on the side of his cheek. I have never kept goats before, and I only have one other goat (nigerian dwarf). Anywho, rushed him to the vet. Vet lanced the abcess and gave me a 5 day supply of penicillin. The vet said that it wasnt CL, (he is a farm vet, and I am assuming he knows what he is talking about, however he never ran the puss to see for sure) Vet was pretty sure he bit the inside of his own cheek or something he ate caused it. Well now its exactly a week later and it is still pretty swollen. It seems to be going down, but its still very noticable. When should I expect for it to not be so swollen? My poor little guy is eating, drinking, and acting perfectly unphased.


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## marytx (Dec 4, 2002)

It's been awhile, so I don't remember for sure, but it seems like it took a couple of weeks for it to noticably go down.


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## GoatNamedDunn (Jun 20, 2008)

That makes me feel a little bit better. Its just awful to look at! Ick!


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## FalconDance (Feb 4, 2007)

Just a comment on the importance of a vet who knows goats.

A friend had a goat come down with a swelling on her jaw, figured it was probably a bee sting or somesuch. She called her vet, he told her to come get some meds, sight unseen. She gave the meds to her goat, at 2pm the goat seemed better but the swelling was still there. At 4pm, the goat was dead.

This is the same vet that, when my friend _finally_ listened to what I'd been telling her for a year about coccidiosis and the very real possibility she'd already lost several babies to it, gave her a full spectrum anti-bacterial shot for her goats, sight unseen, said it'd take care of the problem if it was there.

Now then. My friend does NOT listen to anyone's advise about her animals and animal husbandry (well, she listens but also then discards it) except for, maybe, the vet. We have many polar opposite views on the topic. BUT I finally told her today to find a different vet. This one is great for cats and dogs and probably cows and horses. But he's a total zero for goats! He doesn't see the need to do cultures or tests or even examinations - just hands her meds. I said it was as if she'd called her doctor to report an upset tummy and he handed her a bag of pills with the note, "here, take these; one of them is bound to work."


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## GoatNamedDunn (Jun 20, 2008)

Sounds like the vet I saw, but it was an emergency and no other vet in town see's goats. There arent many goat or sheep keepers this way. There are plenty of horse/cattle people though, but no one really deals with caprines. Anywho, I keep hearing about coccidiosis. I am a newbie goat keeper, and an completely in the dark about what it is and when to recognizes it?


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