# Fully-vaccinated Americans can gather with other vaccinated people indoors without wearing a mask or social distancing,



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Fully vaccinated people can gather without masks, should still avoid travel, CDC says


Fully vaccinated Americans can gather with other vaccinated people indoors without wearing a mask or social distancing, according to long-awaited guidance from federal health officials.




www.ksl.com





Fully-vaccinated Americans can gather with other vaccinated people indoors without wearing a mask or social distancing, according to long-awaited guidance from federal health officials.

The recommendations also say that vaccinated people can come together in the same way with people considered at low-risk for severe disease, such as in the case of vaccinated grandparents visiting healthy children and grandchildren.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced the guidance Monday.

The guidance is designed to address a growing demand, as more adults have been getting vaccinated and wondering if it gives them greater freedom to visit family members, travel, or do other things like they did before the COVID-19 pandemic swept the world last year.

"We know that people want to get vaccinated so they can get back to doing the things they enjoy with the people they love," said CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky, in a statement.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

"The CDC says people are not considered “fully vaccinated” until two weeks after receiving the last required dose of vaccine."


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Star Bellied Sneeches.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

This feels so contrived. I guess we need our little card to show we are vaccinated.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

One small step for totalitarianism.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> One small step for totalitarianism.


We have gone pretty far down the path. To my knowledge we have never taken a step away from it, only toward it.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

We never stopped getting together with friends and family in my area. 😁 No masks or social distancing.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Yes, HD. It is sad.

My book recommendation on this thread is Animal Farm.


----------



## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

no really said:


> We never stopped getting together with friends and family in my area. 😁 No masks or social distancing.


Same here.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Was anyone here really waiting for permission?


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Nope.


----------



## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

Fishindude said:


> Same here.


Ditto


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I saw this today and right away I knew what it was. The first step to the antivaxxers wearing the Scarlet V. This was grooming and that's all it was. Does everyone feel groomed now?

I think I need a shower now.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I intend to carry a rabid wolverine in a cage and sic it on anyone that asks me about my vaccination status.


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

painterswife said:


> "The CDC says people are not considered “fully vaccinated” until two weeks after receiving the last required dose of vaccine."


The more people that get the shot the better. Just hope people starting to get together will be ok. The government says over 50% of people is appling for the shots. Me one of them. It may be July before a lot of folks can be back to work full time. Sure glad the U.S. voted in a man that cares for the health of our people and people aroung the world. 4 people including 2 small childern got the virus back in Feb. Our town had a town meeding and decided all should wear protection etc. Helpd a lot in this country.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

101pigs said:


> The more people that get the shot the better. Just hope people starting to get together will be ok. The government says over 50% of people is appling for the shots. Me one of them. It may be July before a lot of folks can be back to work full time. Sure glad the U.S. voted in a man that cares for the health of our people and people aroung the world. 4 people including 2 small childern got the virus back in Feb. Our town had a town meeding and decided all should wear protection etc. Helpd a lot in this country.


250,000,000 didn't vote for that useless tool.
That, says a lot. He truly doesn't care. Look at all the immigrant kids he has locked up, yet is letting untested immigrants into our country.
Remember, you made this somewhat political. 
What is it now, 300,000,000 still not vaccinated?


----------



## Dirt-Road-Poor (Feb 7, 2017)

Find somewhere else to spew your useless propaganda nobody wants to hear a about the selected and injected kiddy diddler


----------



## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Hail Biden he is saving us all .


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I know it sounds draconian, unfeeling, unsympathetic, or whatever you want to call it, but, IMHO the Human Race as a whole would have/would be better off to just let this virus run its course and allow for the fit to survive.


----------



## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

I'll jump on your "draconian, unfeeling, unsympathetic, or whatever you want to call it" bandwagon. Throughout history, this type of event has been God's/nature's way of "thinning the herd" and in many ways making the species stronger. Now man is stepping in and disrupting this process while at the same time worrying about over population, growing lack of land and resources, and world hunger.


----------



## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

101pigs said:


> The more people that get the shot the better. Just hope people starting to get together will be ok. The government says over 50% of people is appling for the shots. Me one of them. It may be July before a lot of folks can be back to work full time. Sure glad the U.S. voted in a man that cares for the health of our people and people aroung the world. 4 people including 2 small childern got the virus back in Feb. Our town had a town meeding and decided all should wear protection etc. Helpd a lot in this country.


----------



## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

If we need someone to tell us that it's safe to gather today but it wasn't yesterday, we've hit a new level in brainwashed. How on earth does anyone ever expect to get back to "normal" if we're afraid of people who haven't received an non-approved FDA vaccine, for a virus??? My WW2 veteran grandfather is rolling in his grave, I have no doubt.


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

Is there ANY legal, Constitution-based authority for the government to mandate face masks?

Has it been challenged in a court?

I guess it comes under the same authority that allows the government to mandate the use of seat belts and such, but again I am not sure what that authority is.

If you think about where that could end up in years to come, it's scary.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

I think it’s already here


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

101pigs said:


> The more people that get the shot the better. Just hope people starting to get together will be ok. The government says over 50% of people is appling for the shots. Me one of them. It may be July before a lot of folks can be back to work full time. Sure glad the U.S. voted in a man that cares for the health of our people and people aroung the world. 4 people including 2 small childern got the virus back in Feb. Our town had a town meeding and decided all should wear protection etc. Helpd a lot in this country.


They need to make a vaccine for people suffering from delusions.


----------



## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Those who ARE actually getting the vaccine are so proud to share the details to anyone, and everyone...the ultimate form of VIRTUE SIGNALING !

At what point will the public shaming commence for those of us who choose against getting a vaccine ?


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

HDRider said:


> This feels so contrived. I guess we need our little card to show we are vaccinated.


Will a middle finger do?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

CKelly78z said:


> Those who ARE actually getting the vaccine are so proud to share the details to anyone, and everyone...the ultimate form of VIRTUE SIGNALING !
> 
> At what point will the public shaming commence for those of us who choose against getting a vaccine ?


If you think that someone just sharing that they got the vaccine shot is virtue signaling then it is more your problem than theirs. Hoping others also get the shot is not the same as forcing anyone. I see more shaming of those that want to get it in this forum than the other way around.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> I saw this today and right away I knew what it was. The first step to the antivaxxers wearing the Scarlet V. This was grooming and that's all it was. Does everyone feel groomed now?
> 
> I think I need a shower now.


Sounds familiar.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Yes, HD. It is sad.
> 
> My book recommendation on this thread is Animal Farm.


I would also add Atlas Shrugged.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

kinderfeld said:


> Sounds familiar.
> View attachment 94467
> 
> View attachment 94468


It does.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

kinderfeld said:


> Sounds familiar.


Add in gun control, book burning, knocking down statues and fencing in The Capitol and stationing troops there, and it's obvious history has just repeated itself.

_Just go along, George. Just go along._"-- Jerry Seinfeld, The Soup Nazi episode


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> If you think that someone just sharing that they got the vaccine shot is virtue signaling then it is more your problem than theirs. Hoping others also get the shot is not the same as forcing anyone. I see more shaming of those that want to get it in this forum than the other way around.


Why do they feel the need to share personal medical information then if its not virtual signaling? Could be a violation of hippa laws!(not really, but???)
I dont have a problem if you get the vaccine, but i really don't need to know if you did. It's kinda the same thing as those stupid "i voted" stickers. Keep it to yourself is a remarkably simple concept. As to folks on this board, they seem to be more of a free minded group. They don't seem to have much use for those who piddle on them.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Why do they feel the need to share personal medical information then if its not virtual signaling?
> I dont have a problem if you get the vaccine, but i really don't need to know if you did. It's kinda the same thing as those stupid "i voted" stickers. Keep it to yourself is a remarkably simple concept.


I don't know if you noticed but on this site, people share many things about their personal lives. Don't read it if you don't like what they post but shaming them for sharing their lives is not really nice.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I don't know if you noticed but on this site, people share many things about their personal lives. Don't read it if you don't like what they post but shaming them for sharing their lives is not really nice.


I don't. You do...cant or won't answer questions again i see.
Have the day you deserve!


----------



## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Star Bellied Sneeches.
> View attachment 94443


Was just thinking this! How would you know? I'm not getting the vaccine been amd still have long covid or what my doctor says is bs. Just keeps patting me on the head hands me yet another referral....way to far for me to travel
I was offered the shot but passed on it in less than polite way.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I took a black mask and put a yellow six pointed star on it. I was startled that people didn't know what it signified.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I took a black mask and put a yellow six pointed star on it. I was startled that people didn't know what it signified.


Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.


----------



## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

gilberte said:


> I know it sounds draconian, unfeeling, unsympathetic, or whatever you want to call it, but, IMHO the Human Race as a whole would have/would be better off to just let this virus run its course and allow for the fit to survive.


We could, and ignore chemotherapy, appendectomies, transplants, preeclampsia, car accidents, premature babies, etc.


----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

================
Governments and airlines in Europe are hoping that vaccine certificates and digital health apps can help make travel for the masses a reality again this summer after a year of COVID-19 restrictions.

A digital health or travel app would aim to show passengers up-to-date requirements for their destination and display their COVID-19 test results and any vaccination certificate.

...the apps will enable authorised labs and test centres to send results or vaccination certificates securely to passengers. They can then choose to share those results with the airlines or authorities responsible for allowing their travel.

https://news.yahoo.com/factbox-health-apps-vaccine-certificates-105644935.html

=================================

The CBS News report on this added that the app could easily be mandated by many non-airline businesses to enforce a requirement that their customers show proof of having been vaccinated.

(I'm thinking that athletic events will be next to require it.)


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

If it gets people back to work then I am all for it. There are many countries where you need proof of vaccination to enter or immigrate. Yes, some will try to find a way around things but I trust that the majority will want to do the right thing.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Those wanting the shots should get them. Then according to current literature their safe and should have no worries about being near those without shots. 

Paper work about covid for travel is just silly.


----------



## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Fully-vaccinated Americans can gather with other vaccinated people indoors without wearing a mask or social distancing, according to long-awaited guidance from federal health officials.


What I do in my home is none of the government's damn business.

This is NOT long awaited guidance from federal health officials. This is so draconian. Oh, and how are they going to enforce it?


----------



## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

Requiring vaccinations to enter or immigrate to a country is one thing. Requiring proof of vaccination to travel domestically is an entirely different thing and where we start venturing into "your papers please" territory.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Wolf mom said:


> What I do in my home is none of the government's damn business.
> 
> This is NOT long awaited guidance from federal health officials. This is so draconian. Oh, and how are they going to enforce it?


It was a recommendation, not a law.


----------



## doozie (May 21, 2005)

I took the guidance to mean you could now start visiting relatives in a nursing home, hospital, or in a private residence.
They are guidelines, and obviously many don't want to follow guidelines, maybe they are for the people that have been waiting and following previous advice...


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Dirt-Road-Poor said:


> Your name should be 101 sheep





mreynolds said:


> Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it.


You got that right. Not the first time this has happened.


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Redlands Okie said:


> Those wanting the shots should get them. Then according to current literature their safe and should have no worries about being near those without shots.
> 
> Paper work about covid for travel is just silly.


Does the public have the right to carry a machine gun loaded on a public airplane?


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

PaLady said:


> If we need someone to tell us that it's safe to gather today but it wasn't yesterday, we've hit a new level in brainwashed. How on earth does anyone ever expect to get back to "normal" if we're afraid of people who haven't received an non-approved FDA vaccine, for a virus??? My WW2 veteran grandfather is rolling in his grave, I have no doubt.


When i joined the Marines i had to have a shot that covered 5 different diseases. If you refused to take the shot you was not allowed in the Marines. I spent 3 years in combat in other countries and was glad that i was required to take the shots the military required. When in grade school in the 3rd grade all the kids in school were given a shot that covered different deseases. Government required shots is not new in the U.S.A. Most of the public in the U.S.A. is not forced to received this shot. If you get the virtus and give it to 10 people in your family and some of them pass away does that make your choice not to get the shot ok? As for companies that require you take a shot or leave the company they do so to protect other employees and also protect themselves from lawsuits.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

At this time the vax is not mandated by the military.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

101pigs said:


> Does the public have the right to carry a machine gun loaded on a public airplane?


What is a public airplane?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

You don't need an ID to vote (I've been told that is racist) but you'll need documentation to go to and fro.
Makes sense.


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

no really said:


> At this time the vax is not mandated by the military.


The military would like for all military people to get the vaccccine. It is not required yet, however it may in the next year or 2 depenting on how this virus continues. In Korea bases do have lock down at some military bases. Some require testing before people can visit the bases. Other military bases in other countries also have lock down about visit to the bases.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

101pigs said:


> Does the public have the right to carry a machine gun loaded on a public airplane?


For some silly reason, no.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Not in your carry on but I'm sure you can declare it and have them toss it into the luggage compartment with the rest of the passengers' suitcases.
Airlines are pretty good about keeping your stuff sorted.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

101pigs said:


> When i joined the Marines i had to have a shot that covered 5 different diseases. If you refused to take the shot you was not allowed in the Marines. I spent 3 years in combat in other countries and was glad that i was required to take the shots the military required. When in grade school in the 3rd grade all the kids in school were given a shot that covered different deseases. Government required shots is not new in the U.S.A. Most of the public in the U.S.A. is not forced to received this shot. If you get the virtus and give it to 10 people in your family and some of them pass away does that make your choice not to get the shot ok? As for companies that require you take a shot or leave the company they do so to protect other employees and also protect themselves from lawsuits.


At this time there is no proof that backup your comment. The shots are being said to prevent those that get shots from getting as ill as they might. Nothing has been submitted that I have found that says the current vaccines prevent you from getting covid, or passing it on. 

If anyone thinks that getting a covid shot is a good idea, please do. If they think its protects them then its a great deal. Why would they be concerned about being around someone without a shot? Pretty poor logic being used on a lot of this. 

Comparing the covid vaccines with many of the shots you referred to is not apples to apples.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I liken those who are getting the shot to the king's food taster. More power to em!


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

101pigs said:


> When i joined the Marines i had to have a shot that covered 5 different diseases. If you refused to take the shot you was not allowed in the Marines. I spent 3 years in combat in other countries and was glad that i was required to take the shots the military required. When in grade school in the 3rd grade all the kids in school were given a shot that covered different deseases. Government required shots is not new in the U.S.A. Most of the public in the U.S.A. is not forced to received this shot. If you get the virtus and give it to 10 people in your family and some of them pass away does that make your choice not to get the shot ok? As for companies that require you take a shot or leave the company they do so to protect other employees and also protect themselves from lawsuits.


Still your choice wasn't it?


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

JeffreyD said:


> Still your choice wasn't it?


If i wanted to be in the Marines i had to have the shots. I don't know of anyone who refused to take the shots the militaly gave. Some passed out when getting the shot. At that time at the age of 17 i would hve taken any shot required by the military.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

101pigs said:


> If i wanted to be in the Marines i had to have the shots. I don't know of anyone who refused to take the shots the militaly gave. Some passed out when getting the shot. At that time at the age of 17 i would hve taken any shot required by the military.


Still, it was a choice YOU made. You were not forced to take them. You chose to take them because you wanted to be in the Marines. 
By the way, thank you for your service! 👍👍


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

This argument doesn't need to take place---We need to look no farther than comparing the infection/hospitalization/death rates from CoV in NY & CA (strict regs) vs FL (few to no regs)--statistically identical numbers. ...Same applies to Sweden vs the rest of Europe.

Social distancing, masks & restrictions on gatherings simply don't alter the course of an epidemic. It's gotta play out naturally....Planting a wind break won't protect your house from a tornado.


----------



## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

101pigs said:


> When i joined the Marines i had to have a shot that covered 5 different diseases. If you refused to take the shot you was not allowed in the Marines. I spent 3 years in combat in other countries and was glad that i was required to take the shots the military required. When in grade school in the 3rd grade all the kids in school were given a shot that covered different deseases. Government required shots is not new in the U.S.A. Most of the public in the U.S.A. is not forced to received this shot. If you get the virtus and give it to 10 people in your family and some of them pass away does that make your choice not to get the shot ok? As for companies that require you take a shot or leave the company they do so to protect other employees and also protect themselves from lawsuits.


Two of my uncles, who wore their masks faithfully and stayed at home except for necessities, contracted covid and died from complications. They believed it is everyone's right to choose what is best for themselves...both lifetime military of 25 and 28 years. A vaccine wouldn't have saved either of them because of the lifetime of lung damage they both had, coupled with their age. To my knowledge, it is only the VA Administration (as far as medical facilities) that is requiring a vaccine from their employees as a contingency for employment. I'm not against any vaccine but I do think you have the right to choose. I don't work for a VA hospital because I refuse to be forced to take a vaccine against my will. If people choose to take a vaccine, that's their choice. It's also the same choice afforded to those who choose not to take a vaccine, for whatever reason. Oddly enough, it's those exercising their right not to take a vaccine, who are being ostracized and called selfish. If the slogan of "my body, my choice" is viable reason to destroy an innocent life, it most certainly is a viable reason to choose what you will allow to be injected into your own body.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There are many calling those that do take the vaccine " sheep" and the like. There is fault on both sides.

If you are required to take the vaccine for a job then you have the choice to get a different job. No one in this US has been forced to take the vaccine at this time.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)




----------



## NRA_guy (Jun 9, 2015)

How about this:

Make the vaccine totally voluntary . . . but make Covid-19 infection and any resulting medical problems totally excluded from all medical insurance coverage and government medical programs like Medicaid and Medicare for all who opt out on taking the vaccine.

That seems fair to me.

I.e., don't ask me to pay for risk that you assume.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

I suspect that’s already being worked on.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Wasn't there some mention of a gun?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

NRA_guy said:


> How about this:
> 
> Make the vaccine totally voluntary . . . but make Covid-19 infection and any resulting medical problems totally excluded from all medical insurance coverage and government medical programs like Medicaid and Medicare for all who opt out on taking the vaccine.
> 
> ...


If your sick from anything I do not approve off, then perhaps I should get to a vote on your payouts. Lets get busy with the other risky lifestyles and bad habits while were at it.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

NRA_guy said:


> That seems fair to me.
> 
> I.e., don't ask me to pay for risk that you assume.


Fair is where your pig goes to get a ribbon.


----------



## snowlady (Aug 1, 2011)

Does that mean no insurance and government assist with any smoking or obesity related problems, too? Both preventable issues and are choices people make.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Redlands Okie said:


> If your sick from anything I do not approve off, then perhaps I should get to a vote on your payouts. Lets get busy with the other risky lifestyles and bad habits while were at it.


You're right about the slippery slope of 'Illness we approve of..." Who's deciding?..Eg- The Libs hate smokers but love HIV pts. All those stupid HIPPA regs are directly related to protecting HIV people.

False logic about cost of illness....The longer you live, the higher your cumulative medical bills....

Most med expenditures are incurred in the several days or weeks leading up to death-- and we all die, so the expense of dying is essentially the same, regardless of your age at the time....The longer you live, the more expense for "routine care" is accumulated before you reach that expensive last effort.


----------



## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

doc- said:


> You're right about the slippery slope of 'Illness we approve of..." Who's deciding?..Eg- The Libs hate smokers but love HIV pts. All those stupid HIPPA regs are directly related to protecting HIV people.
> 
> False logic about cost of illness....The longer you live, the higher your cumulative medical bills....
> 
> *Most med expenditures are incurred in the several days or weeks leading up to death-- and we all die, so the expense of dying is essentially the same, regardless of your age at the time....The longer you live, the more expense for "routine care" is accumulated before you reach that expensive last effort*.


And that right there is a large part of the problem in this country. At some point we should have the option of medically assisted death. Instead they just try to extract the last dime out, whether it be directly from the patient or indirectly through the taxpayers. Right now your best option is a well constructed and documented Living Will and hoping that it is adhered to.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

gilberte said:


> And that right there is a large part of the problem in this country. At some point we should have the option of medically assisted death.


That's a whole 'nuther argument....Short answer-- another slippery slope. We can surely all agree that the 95 y/o with painful metastatic ca should be assisted in a quick death..OK pretty soon we have none of them left..Now the 75 y/o with severe SOB from lung cancer is the worst pt we have..Let's off him...That leaves us with 65 y/o diabetics with heart disease who can't play softball anymore as our sickest citizens...etc etc until the most pathetic people out there are the young kids who don't have blonde hair and blue eyes.

Theory is easy. Practice is difficult.

As far as the monetary incentive goes-- the pt doesn't have to show up at the doctor's.


----------



## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

NRA_guy said:


> How about this:
> 
> Make the vaccine totally voluntary . . . but make Covid-19 infection and any resulting medical problems totally excluded from all medical insurance coverage and government medical programs like Medicaid and Medicare for all who opt out on taking the vaccine.
> 
> ...



This would also not work for people whose health insurance policy has large deductibles. In that case insurance barely pays for anything anyway.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

NRA_guy said:


> How about this:
> 
> Make the vaccine totally voluntary . . . but make Covid-19 infection and any resulting medical problems totally excluded from all medical insurance coverage and government medical programs like Medicaid and Medicare for all who opt out on taking the vaccine.
> 
> ...


Another slippery slope. So you put yourself at risk by not getting the vaccine. Insurance refuses to cover known risky behavior. Next is smoking related issues. Then those who drink alcohol won't be covered. Where does it stop?


----------



## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

Danaus29 said:


> Another slippery slope. So you put yourself at risk by not getting the vaccine. Insurance refuses to cover known risky behavior. Next is smoking related issues. Then those who drink alcohol won't be covered. Where does it stop?


Along those lines, don't forget about risky activities - the skydivers, mountain climbers, downhill skiers, motorcycle riders, bicycle riders, etc, etc, etc - it shouldn't only be limited to actions that directly put or don't put something in their body it needs include activities after all risky is risky and there is risk in EVERYTHING. Who decides what's reasonable risk and therefore deserving of insurance and government medical programs?


----------



## Fieldsendart (Jan 25, 2021)

101pigs said:


> When i joined the Marines i had to have a shot that covered 5 different diseases. If you refused to take the shot you was not allowed in the Marines. I spent 3 years in combat in other countries and was glad that i was required to take the shots the military required. When in grade school in the 3rd grade all the kids in school were given a shot that covered different deseases. Government required shots is not new in the U.S.A. Most of the public in the U.S.A. is not forced to received this shot. If you get the virtus and give it to 10 people in your family and some of them pass away does that make your choice not to get the shot ok? As for companies that require you take a shot or leave the company they do so to protect other employees and also protect themselves from lawsuits.


So — what’s the efficacy rate of this shot? For the flu — it’s between 10 and 30%. How does the “Government” discern who infects who? Do you realize that vaccines shed — so YOU could be infecting people AFTER receiving this experimental “medicine”? Stop trusting the government so much, it’s pitiful. If you actually think you’re going to be saved by a “vaccine” — you’re beyond redemption.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Fieldsendart said:


> So — what’s the efficacy rate of this shot? For the flu — it’s between 10 and 30%. How does the “Government” discern who infects who? Do you realize that vaccines shed — so YOU could be infecting people AFTER receiving this experimental “medicine”? Stop trusting the government so much, it’s pitiful. If you actually think you’re going to be saved by a “vaccine” — you’re beyond redemption.


Vaccines don't have the live virus in them. They can not shed the virus.


----------



## Fieldsendart (Jan 25, 2021)

NRA_guy said:


> How about this:
> 
> Make the vaccine totally voluntary . . . but make Covid-19 infection and any resulting medical problems totally excluded from all medical insurance coverage and government medical programs like Medicaid and Medicare for all who opt out on taking the vaccine.
> 
> ...


Same goes for everyone that’s overweight, even by 5 lbs — for not controlling their forks, for not exercising, for being lazy — why should _I_ be forced to pay for the healthcare risks and problems you incurred?


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Fieldsendart said:


> Stop trusting the government so much, it’s pitiful. If you actually think you’re going to be saved by a “vaccine” — you’re beyond redemption.


I would think if they still want to believe the government is after their best interests after this boondoggle, then they shouldn't have anyone to blame other than themselves.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Fieldsendart said:


> Same goes for everyone that’s overweight, even by 5 lbs — for not controlling their forks, for not exercising, for being lazy — why should _I_ be forced to pay for the healthcare risks and problems you incurred?


You shouldn't be forced to do anything, but consent went out the door a long time ago.


----------



## Fieldsendart (Jan 25, 2021)

painterswife said:


> Vaccines don't have the live virus in them. They can not shed the virus. Don spread misinformation.


WRONG. Save YOUR misinformation. Covid vaccine is so new, they still don’t have an accurate picture on shedding, or have complete information for vaccine injuries (and there have been MANY), etc. 





__





Safety of Influenza Vaccines







www.cdc.gov


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Fieldsendart said:


> WRONG. Save YOUR misinformation. Covid vaccine is so new, they still don’t have an accurate picture on shedding, or have complete information for vaccine injuries (and there have been MANY), etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wrong right back at you. Two of the vaccines in the US don't even have the virus in them at all.


----------



## Fieldsendart (Jan 25, 2021)

painterswife said:


> Wrong right back at you. Two of the vaccines in the US don't even have the virus in them at all.


Oh. Okay. You keep believing what the honest folks in the “media” and Gubmint tell you. BTW — the CDC ITSELF is posting the guidelines I posted — you just have your opinion. 🙄


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Fieldsendart said:


> Oh. Okay. You keep believing what the honest folks in the “media” and Gubmint tell you. BTW — the CDC ITSELF is posting the guidelines I posted — you just have your opinion. 🙄


You are the one quoting the government.

From your link. Covid vaccines have no live virus in them. Facts are important.


"Shedding of the live attenuated vaccine virus is common after receipt of LAIV"


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

You can GET the virus after being injected with the blah blah stuff. Then you are a spreader.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Fieldsendart said:


> WRONG. Save YOUR misinformation. Covid vaccine is so new, they still don’t have an accurate picture on shedding, or have complete information for vaccine injuries (and there have been MANY), etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To back up your statements about the *COVID* vaccine, you should post a link about the covid vaccine, not the influenza vaccine.









Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work


Learn how COVID-19 vaccines work and develop immunity to the virus.




www.cdc.gov













COVID-19 Vaccine Facts


What you need to know about COVID-19 vaccines, myths and facts.




www.cdc.gov


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Correct, you just can not get or shed the virus from the vaccine. 



Alice In TX/MO said:


> You can GET the virus after being injected with the blah blah stuff. Then you are a spreader.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

No. That is NOT what I said. The blah blah injection doesn’t protect you from the virus.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The vaccine helps keep you from getting sick. It does not prevent covid infection. They are still trying to figure out if you can spread covid when you get infected after being vaccinated.









COVID-19 Vaccination


COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.




www.cdc.gov


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

It would be a good idea to review the rules about political posts in GC.


----------



## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

I’ll gather when and where I please.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

101pigs said:


> The new Top man in Washington has done more good since taking office then the last one in 4 years


Yeah, he fixed global warming in less than a month. Now we dont need to spend all that money for the green new deal.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

In a scientific discussion, we need a few definitions-- colonization is where you carry a bug but it's not causing you any harm...Infection is when a bug you have causes some sort of harm to you, the carrier. A carrier (colonized or infected) can spread the bug to others where it may or may not cause harm.

The new mRNA vaccines do not turn you into a carrier...After you receive the shots there is a short period (a couple weeks) where you are not fully protected and may still pick up the bug naturally and become infected. Nobody knows (no studies done yet) at this point how well you can spread the germ under those circumstances.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Actually, they do not yet know if the vaccine can turn you into a carrier. Early data says the vaccine helps keep people with no symptoms from spreading covid.









COVID-19 Vaccination


COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.




www.cdc.gov





And as more people get vaccinated they are finding that some people are testing positive after being vaccinated.









DOH confirms 3 vaccinated Hawaii residents tested positive for COVID-19


The Hawaii Department of Health (DOH) has announced three cases in which a fully vaccinated person contracted COVID-19. The DOH said, fully vaccinated means the person received both doses of the Mo…




www.khon2.com


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> Actually, they do not yet know if the vaccine can turn you into a carrier. Early data says the vaccine helps keep people with no symptoms from spreading covid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We have a nursing home in Northern Alberta that is fully vaccinated that is currently classified as being under full outbreak status again. 

The last article I read, indicated that at least 10 of those vaccinated have been infected. All cases have been mild and none were hospitalized.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I think it is great that the vaccines are working for the elderly population. Mild cases are way better than how awful they could be.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

And in a nutshell, that was the purpose of the vaccine. It was never intended to prevent infection, it's purpose is to prevent serious illness from a covid infection.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Danaus29 said:


> And in a nutshell, that was the purpose of the vaccine. It was never intended to prevent infection, it's purpose is to prevent serious illness from a covid infection.


It did work as intended. I also may provide some answers on transmission as well since the facilies are still locked down. I would think it also shows that fully vaccinated people can infect other vaccinated people.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> It did work as intended. I also may provide some answers on transmission as well since the facilies are still locked down. I would think it also shows that fully vaccinated people can infect other vaccinated people.


Did the out break start before, during or after the residents had received their vaccine?


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

In other diseases, people who transmit disease without being really sick are called "carriers". With covid the CDC has largely ignored the carrier aspect, other than instituting the mask and social distancing guidelines.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Quarantining seems like a good attempt at dealing with carriers. If they had paired it with widespread testing early on it would have been even better.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

PaLady said:


> Two of my uncles, who wore their masks faithfully and stayed at home except for necessities, contracted covid and died from complications. They believed it is everyone's right to choose what is best for themselves...both lifetime military of 25 and 28 years. A vaccine wouldn't have saved either of them because of the lifetime of lung damage they both had, coupled with their age. To my knowledge, it is only the VA Administration (as far as medical facilities) that is requiring a vaccine from their employees as a contingency for employment. I'm not against any vaccine but I do think you have the right to choose. I don't work for a VA hospital because I refuse to be forced to take a vaccine against my will. If people choose to take a vaccine, that's their choice. It's also the same choice afforded to those who choose not to take a vaccine, for whatever reason. Oddly enough, it's those exercising their right not to take a vaccine, who are being ostracized and called selfish. If the slogan of "my body, my choice" is viable reason to destroy an innocent life, it most certainly is a viable reason to choose what you will allow to be injected into your own body.


Firstly, you have no way of knowing if the vaccine would have saved those people's lives and neither does anyone else, but the evidence would suggest it would have saved them. 

Secondly, the VA does not require employees or patients to have the Covid vaccine.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

todd_xxxx said:


> Firstly, you have no way of knowing if the vaccine would have saved those people's lives and neither does anyone else, but the evidence would suggest it would have saved them.
> 
> Secondly, the VA does not require employees or patients to have the Covid vaccine.


The best you could surmise is that the vaccine may have save their lives but neither of us actually knows their complete medical history.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Quarantining seems like a good attempt at dealing with carriers. If they had paired it with widespread testing early on it would have been even better.


They say that hindsight is 20/20. I can think of several things that may have slowed things down early on but the WHO seemed to feel otherwise. 

I don't think that any country had access to enough testing kits early on but it's a nice way to try and make an interesting discussion political.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I thought that mods were not supposed to call out members directly in the forum about what you consider rule breaking. I was under the impression that was to be dealt with behind the scenes.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

I find it interesting that we are calling these vaccines, when they actually seem to be made to reduce the severity of the symptoms. Not to actually create a immune response to prevent us from catching the disease. Guess we will see a new section added in the dictionaries. 

Glad they work to some degree so far, according to the information were being given. 



im·mune
/iˈmyo͞on/
adjective
adjective: immune
resistant to a particular infection or toxin owing to the presence of specific antibodies or sensitized white blood cells.
"they were naturally immune to hepatitis B"
protected or exempt, especially from an obligation or the effects of something.

not affected or influenced by something.

Oxford Languages 






vaccine noun

vac·cine | \ vak-ˈsēn , ˈvak-ˌsēn \
Definition of vaccine
: a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious disease:
a : an antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see ATTENUATED sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin)
b : a preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein)










Definition of VACCINE


a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease: such as… See the full definition




www.merriam-webster.com


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

All vaccines are created to cause an immune response. The level of immunity is dependent on many things.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> I thought that mods were not supposed to call out members directly in the forum about what you consider rule breaking. I was under the impression that was to be dealt with behind the scenes.


I see your point. On the other hand it does help some of us to learn what is crossing the line and what is not. Hard to tell sometimes.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> I see your point. On the other hand it does help some of us to learn what is crossing the line and what is not. Hard to tell sometimes.


I have no problem either way, just want to know the line. It seems to change alot.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

It seems these covid products are not what has in the past been labeled as vaccines. In the definitions that I found, reducing symptoms was not listed. The covid vaccines are using reduced symptoms as their purpose.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Vaccines are to reduce levels of illness in infections. They always have been. Some just have better results than others.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

This is exactly what the Covid vaccine does:

vac·cine | \ vak-ˈsēn , ˈvak-ˌsēn \
Definition of vaccine
: a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious disease:


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I thought that mods were not supposed to call out members directly in the forum about what you consider rule breaking. I was under the impression that was to be dealt with behind the scenes.]
> 
> I believe you’ve publicly demanded mod explanations many times and I can post links, if you’d like.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

todd_xxxx said:


> This is exactly what the Covid vaccine does:
> 
> vac·cine | \ vak-ˈsēn , ˈvak-ˌsēn \
> Definition of vaccine
> : a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious disease:


Read up. The covid vaccines are not made to do that. They reduce the severity of the symptoms.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

*IF* the vaccines worked to prevent covid infection, you would think the CDC would say that outright. But no, they say the "vaccine" helps protect you from getting sick. You still have to be exposed to covid before your immune system can make real covid antibodies.









COVID-19 Vaccine Facts


What you need to know about COVID-19 vaccines, myths and facts.




www.cdc.gov





On the page about influenza vaccines the CDC states the body produces antibodies in response to the flu vaccine. Their page about covid does not say the vaccine causes the body to produce antibodies to covid.









Key Facts About Seasonal Flu Vaccine


An annual seasonal flu vaccine is the best way to help protect against flu. Learn more about seasonal flu vaccine.




www.cdc.gov













Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work


Learn how COVID-19 vaccines work and develop immunity to the virus.




www.cdc.gov


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Quarantining seems like a good attempt at dealing with carriers. If they had paired it with widespread testing early on it would have been even better.


Case contact tracing and quarantine work best when there is a limited number of index cases and the means of spread of the bug is difficult.
CoViD is easily spread (airborne) and there were literally 100s of 1000s of infected people in worldwide circulation before the disease was recognized or announced...Futile at that point to trace & quarantine.

QUOTE="painterswife, post: 8746718, member: 10829"]
All vaccines are created to cause an immune response. The level of immunity is dependent on many things.
[/QUOTE]

Right.


Redlands Okie said:


> Read up. The covid vaccines are not made to do that. They reduce the severity of the symptoms.


Wrong. ...hey certainly reduce symptoms in those vaccinated...Not enough data yet to prove they give lasting immunity, but that was the goal of making the vax.

As I've said repeatedly-- just because they haven't yet accumulated the data yet to "prove" that this new vax provides lasting immunity doesn't mean that it doesn't...Most vaccines *do *provide lasting effects (boosters may or may not be needed for some) and NO REASON AT ALL to think this one won't.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The CDC says the vaccine teaches your immune system how to fight the virus.









COVID-19 Vaccine Facts


What you need to know about COVID-19 vaccines, myths and facts.




www.cdc.gov





They still don't know if you can spread covid if you get it after you have been vaccinated.


----------



## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Fully vaccinated people can gather without masks, should still avoid travel, CDC says
> 
> 
> Fully vaccinated Americans can gather with other vaccinated people indoors without wearing a mask or social distancing, according to long-awaited guidance from federal health officials.
> ...


Painterswife, thanks for the information. And thanks to you and others here who have sacrificed to slow down the spread of the virus. Without your actions things could have been much worse.

A bit of good news about my wife, who due to age and a suppressed immune system was certainly at risk of serious complications from covid-19. To date neither she nor I have contracted the virus, and we now have had our first vaccination shot. I really appreciate the empathy of those who acted to reduce deaths of people they did not know and will never meet. Unfortunately, my wife's father (Kansas native, trapper, Korean war vet, IBM salesman and storyteller extraordinaire) died of covid in September. He is very sadly missed. I hope none of the rest of you lose a loved one so I am continuing to follow CDC recommendations - hopefully that will help someone, somewhere.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I have no problem either way, just want to know the line. It seems to change alot.


I don't think it's changed at all but when you have members speed reporting again, it does make it a bit harder to do our job.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Redlands Okie said:


> Read up. The covid vaccines are not made to do that. They reduce the severity of the symptoms.


How do you think the covid vaccine reduces the severity of symptoms? It does it by stimulating an immune response from your body against the covid virus. That is the definition of vaccine. I've seen you post "Read up" more than once. While it's overall a silly response, here is a chance for you to do just that:

"There are a few main novel coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccines. The two-dose vaccines currently approved for use in the U.S. are messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines produced by Pfizer and Moderna. The vaccine includes a fragment of the mRNA that encodes for a certain portion of the coronavirus' spike protein. *When the vaccine is given to us, our cells make that protein – a fragment of it – and then our bodies build an immune response to the protein.*
The single-dose Johnson & Johnson vaccine is a DNA vaccine, but it delivers the same product in the end as the mRNA vaccine produced by Pfizer and Moderna. *This new DNA vaccine allows the body to have an immune response against the spike protein, and ultimately, an immune response to infection. *
The other vaccine produced by Oxford/AstraZeneca is similar. It's in use in the United Kingdom and India. It includes a non-replicating adenovirus vector that has a fragment of the spike protein, *which causes us to have an immune response."*

Emphasis mine.


----------



## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> Firstly, you have no way of knowing if the vaccine would have saved those people's lives and neither does anyone else, but the evidence would suggest it would have saved them.
> 
> Secondly, the VA does not require employees or patients to have the Covid vaccine.


Tell my sister, a 20+ year VA Nurse, currently employed, that she wasn't required to take a COVD vaccine. I drove her to both vaccination clinics because she was concerned about driving after receiving the vaccine. After 20+ years of employment, she was more comfortable with receiving a mandated vaccine than finding a new job, since she's worked from home for the last 15 years (give or take) as a Clinical Case Manager, RN. The CDC states that the vaccine does not prevent the contraction of COVID 19 nor does it cure COVID 19 for those already infected. In addition, anyone who has had COVID 19 within the last 90 days is recommended to not take the vaccine, but rather, to wait for 6 months post-COVID infection. I deal with these guidelines everyday in my workplace. And pre-existing lung damage drastically decreases the chances of survival when contracting covid, as it also is when contracting pneumonia and influenza. There is also a lower rate of survival in men than in women who contract covid, per CDC studies. Therefore, I can say that a covid vaccine wouldn't have saved my Uncles who were lifetime smokers, 80 years old, exposed to chemical warfare in Vietnam and who worked in steel foundries and quarries after retirement from military services...they definitely had alot of lung damage. They also received every single medication used to treat covid without success. A vaccine doesn't cure infection. As I said, if people want to take a vaccine, that's their choice but no one should be forced to take a vaccine that isn't FDA approved (and it isn't, and neither are the tests to detect covid).


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

PaLady said:


> Tell my sister, a 20+ year VA Nurse, currently employed, that she wasn't required to take a COVD vaccine. I drove her to both vaccination clinics because she was concerned about driving after receiving the vaccine. After 20+ years of employment, she was more comfortable with receiving a mandated vaccine than finding a new job, since she's worked from home for the last 15 years (give or take) as a Clinical Case Manager, RN. The CDC states that the vaccine does not prevent the contraction of COVID 19 nor does it cure COVID 19 for those already infected. In addition, anyone who has had COVID 19 within the last 90 days is recommended to not take the vaccine, but rather, to wait for 6 months post-COVID infection. I deal with these guidelines everyday in my workplace. And pre-existing lung damage drastically decreases the chances of survival when contracting covid, as it also is when contracting pneumonia and influenza. There is also a lower rate of survival in men than in women who contract covid, per CDC studies. Therefore, I can say that a covid vaccine wouldn't have saved my Uncles who were lifetime smokers, 80 years old, exposed to chemical warfare in Vietnam and who worked in steel foundries and quarries after retirement from military services...they definitely had alot of lung damage. They also received every single medication used to treat covid without success. A vaccine doesn't cure infection. As I said, if people want to take a vaccine, that's their choice but no one should be forced to take a vaccine that isn't FDA approved (and it isn't, and neither are the tests to detect covid).


I would be far more interested to hear who told her she was mandated to have it, because it is not mandated by the Veteran's Administration. 

As far as the rest of things you wrote, I agree, people with lung issues are in far more danger of death from covid. That's why your logic doesn't make sense to me. Your uncles had lung issues, and were far more likely to die from covid if they contracted it, therefore, the vaccine, that keeps you from developing the symptoms of covid, wouldn't have helped them?


----------



## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> I would be far more interested to hear who told her she was mandated to have it, because it is not mandated by the Veteran's Administration.
> 
> As far as the rest of things you wrote, I agree, people with lung issues are in far more danger of death from covid. That's why your logic doesn't make sense to me. Your uncles had lung issues, and were far more likely to die from covid if they contracted it, therefore, the vaccine, that keeps you from developing the symptoms of covid, wouldn't have helped them?


It doesn't prevent contracting covid...I think you're missing that part. I have 23 residents and 15 staff members who were all fully vaccinated and contracted covid...we just came out of an outbreak situation in my facility. Fully vaccinated and contracted covid anyway. I don't work for the VA but I'm certain like most facilities, each VA has company generated policies and then individual policies that pertain to each specific facility. I work for a long term care corporation and we have wide-spread company based policies and then our own facility policies....thankfully, none of which is mandating a non-approved vaccine...otherwise I'd be gone. And this is what I don't understand...once this is over (haha) the FDA can still reject the approval of this vaccine based on the long-term studies. That is what should concern people but it doesn't seem to because it appears, they live in "the here and now" versus thinking further down the road. I'm a believer that when it comes to personal health or the welfare of others, we do no justice by rushing anything. The vaccine didn't miraculously drop the transmission rate. What did do that, was the guidance regarding detection sensitivity of coronavirus by the CDC. On Feb 1, the detection guidance changed. I am not a microbiologist so I don't understand the logistics but basically, on Feb 1 we received new test kits that were supposed to be more targeted to covid and less so for coronavirus, which can also lead to influenza. On February 1st, the country transmission rate here was 6.8%. On February 8th, it dropped to 2.4% (we haven't had a change in transmission rates here like that since this began). It went down weekly after that and currently, our country transmission rate is 0.4% . That would suggest herd immunity has been established in a county that the Maine CDC reports <20% of the population have received vaccines AND we have consistently had one of the lowest community transmission rates in the state...but according to the CDC we haven't reach herd immunity status. Point is, none of it makes sense. My uncles would not have lived even if there was an experimental vaccine...I'm 100% certain of this because their lung damage was too great and a vaccine wouldn't have prevented covid anymore than it prevents influenza. I'm no against vaccines, I just believe in long-term studies over agenda.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Not arguing. Asking for clarification.


'we received new test kits that were supposed to be more targeted to covid and less so for coronavirus, which can also lead to influenza.'

Isn't influenza a completely different organism? Did you mean pneumonia?


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Not arguing. Asking for clarification.
> 
> 
> 'we received new test kits that were supposed to be more targeted to covid and less so for coronavirus, which can also lead to influenza.'
> ...


"Corona Virus" is a class of viruses that includes the new SARS as well as the common cold & influenza viruses..(The all "look alike" with the spikes on the coat, but may or may not actually be evolutionarily related.)...They may share some antigenic patches and that may explain some of the false positive tests.---

For example, say we have your face in the memory bank of one of these new facial recognition systems. It will recognize you, of course, but it may also say an elephant with your picture painted on its flank is you too...Different test kits have different sensitivity/specificity capabilities.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

PaLady said:


> It doesn't prevent contracting covid...I think you're missing that part. I have 23 residents and 15 staff members who were all fully vaccinated and contracted covid...we just came out of an outbreak situation in my facility. Fully vaccinated and contracted covid anyway. I don't work for the VA but I'm certain like most facilities, each VA has company generated policies and then individual policies that pertain to each specific facility.
> 
> ...Point is, none of it makes sense. My uncles would not have lived even if there was an experimental vaccine...I'm 100% certain of this because their lung damage was too great and a vaccine wouldn't have prevented covid anymore than it prevents influenza...


We have had more than 400 covid patients. In fact, that number is probably more than 500 at this point. I'm not missing anything. You can contract covid after being vaccinated, but you don't get symptoms, and you aren't affected by the virus, which means, if you have serious health issues, covid doesn't kill you like it does if you get covid when you haven't been vaccinated and have serious health issues. Which brings us back around to, people with serious health issues are the ones that have the most to gain and the least to lose from the vaccine.

Each VA does not have company generated policies. Local VA's have some policies specific to that VA, but all still fall under the federal mandates, and the federal mandates always take precedence. Covid vaccines are offered to VA employees and patients, but they are not mandated and not getting one has no effect on employment at a VA facility.

The last part of you rpost about your uncles is more of the same. The vaccine may not have prevented covid, but it would have prevented the symptoms, meaning it would not have been able to attack their lungs, which means it could very well have saved them. You being 100% certain doesn't change the fact that the vaccine prevents the damage caused by covid.


----------



## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

todd_xxxx said:


> We have had more than 400 covid patients. In fact, that number is probably more than 500 at this point. I'm not missing anything. You can contract covid after being vaccinated, but you don't get symptoms, and you aren't affected by the virus, which means, if you have serious health issues, covid doesn't kill you like it does if you get covid when you haven't been vaccinated and have serious health issues. Which brings us back around to, people with serious health issues are the ones that have the most to gain and the least to lose from the vaccine.
> 
> Each VA does not have company generated policies. Local VA's have some policies specific to that VA, but all still fall under the federal mandates, and the federal mandates always take precedence. Covid vaccines are offered to VA employees and patients, but they are not mandated and not getting one has no effect on employment at a VA facility.
> 
> ...


----------



## treadnaught (Jan 23, 2021)

EDIT, I have been corrected, I conflated a few sentences. 

I stand corrected


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

treadnaught said:


> Didn’t “Real ID” attach medical records to the license? Hmm....
> Make sure you get your “federal star”....sounds familiar


No, it didn't. But at least you did a drive-by to spread false information with no evidence at all, so thanks for the contribution.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

treadnaught said:


> Didn’t “Real ID” attach medical records to the license? Hmm....
> Make sure you get your “federal star”....sounds familiar


I think you are confusing a CDL and your medical card being attached to it


----------



## treadnaught (Jan 23, 2021)

todd_xxxx said:


> No, it didn't. But at least you did a drive-by to spread false information with no evidence at all, so thanks for the contribution.


You’re right, I should have dove deeper, and for that I apologize, but a federal ID is never a good step


----------



## treadnaught (Jan 23, 2021)

coolrunnin said:


> I think you are confusing a CDL and your medical card being attached to it


You’re correct, but I also read a medical record could be used as verification and must have conflated them....I don’t like to spread false info and for that I apologize


----------



## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

After Bidenharris' little announcement last week we decided that we are having a huge 4th of July party, All are invited except for the idiots. (roast piggy, Yum!)


----------



## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

treadnaught said:


> You’re right, I should have dove deeper, and for that I apologize, but a federal ID is never a good step


Notice that we do not need ID to vote, but we do for everything else. 'splain that Lucy!


----------



## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

sharkerbaby said:


> I'll jump on your "draconian, unfeeling, unsympathetic, or whatever you want to call it" bandwagon. Throughout history, this type of event has been God's/nature's way of "thinning the herd" and in many ways making the species stronger. Now man is stepping in and disrupting this process while at the same time worrying about over population, growing lack of land and resources, and world hunger.


There is no lack of land, there should be no hunger and there are more than enough resources for everyone.

The problem is corrupt leadership and corporations in nearly all countries. Most countries just don't have the GDP to overcome the corruption.

In many starving countries, the elites are doing fine. The aid we and other countries send doesn't go farther than the government warehouses.

If the governments truly cared they could run pipelines for water. They could make the lives of rhier people better.

They don't

That is a simplistic take, but the point still stands.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

todd_xxxx said:


> We have had more than 400 covid patients. In fact, that number is probably more than 500 at this point. I'm not missing anything. You can contract covid after being vaccinated, but you don't get symptoms, and you aren't affected by the virus, which means, if you have serious health issues, covid doesn't kill you like it does if you get covid when you haven't been vaccinated and have serious health issues. Which brings us back around to, people with serious health issues are the ones that have the most to gain and the least to lose from the vaccine.
> 
> Each VA does not have company generated policies. Local VA's have some policies specific to that VA, but all still fall under the federal mandates, and the federal mandates always take precedence. Covid vaccines are offered to VA employees and patients, but they are not mandated and not getting one has no effect on employment at a VA facility.
> 
> The last part of you rpost about your uncles is more of the same. The vaccine may not have prevented covid, but it would have prevented the symptoms, meaning it would not have been able to attack their lungs, which means it could very well have saved them. You being 100% certain doesn't change the fact that the vaccine prevents the damage caused by covid.


I don't think your statement is completely true. A facility in northern Alberta had an outbreak after staff and residents were well past their second vaccination. 

According to the director of the facility and our government, a certain number of residents did display symptoms, although they were less severe.


----------



## Bront (Jan 26, 2021)

painterswife said:


> Fully vaccinated people can gather without masks, should still avoid travel, CDC says
> 
> 
> Fully vaccinated Americans can gather with other vaccinated people indoors without wearing a mask or social distancing, according to long-awaited guidance from federal health officials.
> ...



Think I'll wait awhile , while what we can and can't do becomes more defined....


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

wr said:


> I don't think your statement is completely true. A facility in northern Alberta had an outbreak after staff and residents were well past their second vaccination.
> 
> According to the director of the facility and our government, a certain number of residents did display symptoms, although they were less severe.


It is possible to get it after being vaccinated, but as you said, the symptoms are less severe. I've never heard (or read) of a person that was vaccinated requiring hospitalization. Of course, that doesn't mean it hasn't, or can't happen. There are no absolutes.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The vaccines are also not 100 percent effective. Some people do still get covid and all the symptoms after being fully vaccinated.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I’ve read that no one has died of Covid after waiting the full two weeks after the second vaccine. Don’t know if it’s true though, but I hope so.
My husband and I are fully vaccinated and 17 days past the second one. Both of my daughters have their first vaccines and appointments for their second.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> "The CDC says people are not considered “fully vaccinated” until two weeks after receiving the last required dose of vaccine."


Are you vaccinated yet, or do you plan to be?


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

todd_xxxx said:


> It is possible to get it after being vaccinated, but as you said, the symptoms are less severe. I've never heard (or read) of a person that was vaccinated requiring hospitalization. Of course, that doesn't mean it hasn't, or can't happen. There are no absolutes.


I haven't looked too hard for that information but I'm sure it would be front page news if it happened. I was only correcting your statement that a fully vaccinated person would have no symptoms.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Lisa in WA said:


> I’ve read that no one has died after waiting the full two weeks after the second vaccine. Don’t know if it’s true though, but I hope so.
> My husband and I are fully vaccinated and 17 days past the second one. Both of my daughters have their first vaccines and appointments for their second.


The facility I mentioned is the only place I know of that has been fully vaccinated and I have not heard of any deaths of those vaccinated. 

I'm not sure when my turn will come up but even though my visits with my father are quite restrictive, it's nice to see them able to each meals together, get out of their rooms and we can make plans to get him out for some fresh air. The last time he was allowed outside his facility was in October, when my sister was allowed to take him for Thanksgiving dinner. 

We do have 3 variant strains in our province and that looks like it's going to change things a bit. One fully vaccinated facility that had staff infections is back under full outbreak status and the same hellish rules.


----------



## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Some actual science, not fantasies about how we think the world is--

The new CoV vaccines are said to be in the range of 95% effective in preventing *serious* (not mild or moderate) CoV Disease--

What that means is that over the relatively short period of the studies ( a few months) the subjects who got the placebo picked up CoV and got hospital-sick-CoViD at a rate of ~ 0.045% and that the subjects who got the real thing only about 0.040%. COVID-19 vaccines: What does 95% efficacy actually mean? | Live Science

One is tempted to say BFD...but it's difficult to evaluate the efficacy of a treatment when the risk is low in the first place.....Compare this to the efficacy of the Flu Vax--~50% (Why does anyone bother?)

Concerning the new vax and antibodies---Correlation of antibody titers with COVID-19 vaccine efficacy (news-medical.net) There are two types of Ab-- blocking (neutralizing)Ab and binding Ab.....blocking Ab is like a undercover cop in a gang of thieves destroying their burglar's tools before they can enter and rob a house,.... whereas binding Ab is like the cop making the arrest and delivering the guys for jail, trial and punishment-- ie-- the binding Ab labels the virus for ingestion by WBCs to be killed inside them.

The new vaccines apparently are better at making binding Ab than neutralizing Ab. The studies that claim the vax "doesn't make Abs" are really only measuring for blocking Ab, not all Abs....Does it really make any difference which Ab they make as long as it works?

There are two reason why one would want to get any vaccine-- (1) to prevent the individual from getting sick, and/or (b) to increase the population-wide immunity status in order to slow the spread of a disease.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

doc- said:


> Some actual science, not fantasies about how we think the world is--
> 
> The new CoV vaccines are said to be in the range of 95% effective in preventing *serious* (not mild or moderate) CoV Disease--


The last thing we were told here at my hospital, and I just saw another paper discussing this, but I don't remember where I read it, is that all three vaccines available in the US have been 100% effective against serious Covid. For what it's worth.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

And they lied.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> And they lied.



Have you seen cases where that didn't hold true? I thought this video explained efficacy vs effectiveness well, and talks about both, as well as comparing the vaccines.
Vaccine video on Youtube It says it's from the CDC, so I'm sure plenty of people will think it's nonsense.


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The injection manufacturing companies do not claim 100%.

That is all I am referring to.


----------



## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The injection manufacturing companies do not claim 100%.
> 
> That is all I am referring to.


They don't claim 100% efficacy. Efficacy is largely unimportant as compared to effectiveness as far as I'm concerned with regards to covid.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I found this helpful.









Vaccines Are 100% Effective at Preventing COVID-19 Hospitalizations and Deaths


Wondering what "95 percent efficacy" means? I've got some good news for you.




reason.com


----------



## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I have pondered this a bit, and I really don’t trust the numbers. My body. My choice.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Yup.


----------

