# Even an old guy like me can learn something



## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

I've been hunting deer for over 40 years. I was taught to always aim at the heart/lung area. Every deer I've ever harvested has been shot in this area behind the front leg.

Here's the problem. I'd say that I've had to blood track 90% of these deer anywheres from 100 yards to a mile. In my life, I've not been able to find two of the deer I had shot. They both ran off after being hit and their blood trail just ran out. It broke my heart to "waste" these two deer...they were both nice bucks.

I was discussing this with a friend at work and he suggested a "neck shot." He told me that every deer that he's shot in the neck collapses immediately. So, this year I tried it. Shot two bucks yesterday in the neck - and he was right - they collapsed where they stood and died within seconds. I wish I had known about a neck shot earlier in life. 

Does anyone know if there are any drawbacks to a neck shot? The only one I can think of is that you may waste some neck meat. I'm not a big fan of neck roasts anyhow. Necks typically get ground up into burger around here.


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## Dutchie (Mar 14, 2003)

And here I thought you made some **** fly pies.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

Where on the neck? I've not been deer hunting before, but am curious to know where to shoot to kill more quickly with the least amount of pain possible.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

BoldViolet said:


> Where on the neck? I've not been deer hunting before, but am curious to know where to shoot to kill more quickly with the least amount of pain possible.


I just aimed for the center of the neck. I did a search and found this drawing.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Does anyone know if there are any* drawbacks to a neck shot*?


It's a LOT easier to miss the spine and end up wounding them.

Usually with a GOOD heart/lung hit, when the trail ends, the deer is within 100 ft of that spot.

If you're having to track them all that far, I'd be trying a different bullet.

It sounds to me like yours aren't doing enough damage, because I rarely have a deer go 100 yds with a GOOD shot placement.

I suspect your bullet is too heavy, and isn't transferring enough shock, as a lighter bullet would do.

Any deer you had to track for a mile most likely wasn't hit in the heart or lungs


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

The bullet isn't too heavy. Just a standard 170g .30-30. I suppose it good have been poor shot placement on the two I lost the trail on, but the first blood spots sure looked like a lung shot being all foam-like.


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## manawar (Nov 1, 2011)

Makes sense if you think about, although we've all been taught to shoot in the chest.
But if you don't have blood going to the brain or air to breathe, from the neck shot, that deer won't get far.
Maybe a little harder shot, but you won't have far to go if you hit it.
Thanks for tip.
Now we ALL know something we didn't before.


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## unregistered41671 (Dec 29, 2009)

I shot one in the neck with a .41 mag. He dropped and never wiggled.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Where on the neck?


If you don't hit *the spine*, you can end up wounding the deer.

Sometimes a near miss will transfer enough shock to kill them, but a hit a little too high or too low will result in a bad wound and a lost deer.

Watch a deer feeding and you'll see how often the neck moves compared to the heart/lung area.

The odds are still better on the chest shots:

http://www.forthoodhunting.com/html/deer_shot_placement.html



> Hunters using firearms have many more choices than bow hunters. A bullet striking either the heart, shoulder, head, spine or lungs is fatal to big game animals due to the massive shock and tissue destruction involved. Once again, *the chest area offers the best lethal target*.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> The bullet isn't too heavy. Just a standard 170g .30-30. I suppose it good have been poor shot placement on the two I lost the trail on, but the first blood spots sure looked like a lung shot being all foam-like.


Try the 150's in a Hollow point, or even the 125's, and I think you'll get better results

Ammo .30-30 Winchester Power-Shok Hollow Point 125 Grain *2570 fps *


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## poorboy (Apr 15, 2006)

150-170 grain bullets through the shoulders(from the side) anchors them, if yo hit low (direct hit on heart) they ain't going far if at all, a bobble to the front and usually the neck hit (within 3" of the center of the spine) stops them right there. When you break the shoulders on a game animal it can't do much. This is not the kinda shot to take with the fast steppin' lightweight bullets.(ie..243-223,etc.)..Just sayin..


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

I've always had good luck with a neck shot. The reason I don't take it most of the time is that the range from which I shoot is usually pretty far at 100 yards or more. I'm usually excited about shooting, and afraid I'll miss it. I agree with poorboy on breaking the shoulders as well. If he's broadside and standing still, I go for the top of the shoulders about 2 inches below the top of it if I think the pass through will also get the shoulder on the opposite side. They drop straight down without a flinch and I think the shock gets into the spinal column with that shot. Both those shots are only if I am steady and the set up on him is good. Otherwise, I shoot for the boiler room heat area. The 270 has plenty of shock value so they're all good places. But yes, the neck shot with the right placement or right bullet is a very good one to take.

Hunting with a rifle is not my cup of tea as I really like to tip along the woods or woods roads with the shotgun and some triple aughts and take what jumps.... out to about 40-50 yards.


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## TSYORK (Mar 16, 2006)

For black powder, I do behind the front leg shots. For rifle season, I do neck shots, and they usually drop where their standing with the neck shot.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

On the drawing, back up to just ahead of the shoulder blade. That's been my choice of shot forever no matter if it were a .22 or .222. They do not go anywhere except right down. There have been times when a heart shot had to be taken and the deer can run for several hundred yards. One time I converted a buck's heart to virtual mincemeat with a .30-06 and watched him run off as if he hadn't even been hit. Did the same with a doe with a .222 and cursed myself for missing until I found blood on the left side of the trail. In all, only 4 out of probably 40 deer were shot anywhere except ahead of the shoulder or straight into the neck.

Martin


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## snake35 (Jan 24, 2011)

Limit your range with the 30-30. Try the lighter high velocity hollow points like the Hornady leverloution (possibly miss-spelled) Good luck!


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 20, 2007)

I've only killed four deer in my life. Two neck shots and two in the boilermaker. Only had to track one, and it was one I had got in the heart/lung...It went downhill perhaps 300 yards. Even with that being said, I feel the heart/lung area might be a higher percentage shot than the neck. Seems like a higher likelihood of grazing the neck. The heart/lung area seems to have more room for error. If you "graze" the neck, seems like they might be able to run a good distance further.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Both of the bucks I harvested on Saturday - using the neck shot - were within 50 yds.  Beyond that range, I would still aim for the chest area simply because of it being a larger target.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

Neck shots are best left to those who shoot a lot. I have shot one buck in the neck that ran off. thankfully there was 28inches of fresh snow on the ground so he didn't run far. One in the hart lung area put him down for good. Many more though have dropped on the spot with a neck shot.
150 to 180gr. bullets are more than enough for a whitetail in a 30-30 or 32 special. That is what the twst rate of the Whinny 94 and Marlin 336 are designed to shoot.

Like my brother in law says. Glad they didn't have wood stocks on rifles during the revolotion or we would still be brithish subjects the way the wood warps in the weather. Same with all those deer, moose, elk and other big game shot with a 30-30 and 150 to 180 gr. bullets. Good thing every one had 125 gr. bullets instead.

 Al


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

The longest shot that I ever made barely grazed the top of a neck vertebra and that buck went down as if a ton weight dropped on him. Two of us fired simultaneously, me with a .222 and the other with a .30-06. Took awhile to try to find a bullet hole to determine which of us shot it. Eventually found a trickle of blood high and just ahead of the shoulder. The other hunter's aim may have been true but the deer dropped so fast that the slower .30-06 hadn't arrived yet.

Martin


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## Oldcountryboy (Feb 23, 2008)

I've shot the majority of my deer in the heart/lung area and seems they rarely made it a 100 yards away. Seems most of them dropped right around 50 yards away and I can remember a couple that basically dropped right in there track. 

So I wonder what the deal is? Is it the caliber versus the size of the deer? Deer up around Cabin Fever's area is a lot bigger then around here. Our average 10 point buck probably weighs around 120 to 130 pounds. Most people around here use 30-30's and 30-06's. I hunted with a 30-06 for years before down sizing to a 223. I've only killed 2 deer so far with the 223 but they didn't go far either. 

Could it be the type of bullet used? I basically use a power soft point which seems to explode once it enters the body cavity. When I was using the 30-06 I would use a lower grain bullet for better acrucy.


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

The majority of my deer dropped where they were shot.
The most recent jumped off about 100 feet....nothing more.

I'll stick with my lung-chest shot.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Another advantage to the neck shot is not having several gallons of blood come pouring out of the body cavity when gutting. If you hit a few inches back on the neck shot, then you hit the shoulder blade. A few inches back on the chest shot and you hit stomach. The squirrel-hunting mentality in me says that that's not the way to do it. 

Martin


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

Here's a theory I'm gonna throw out for discussion. I hunt in a heavily timbered area. I don't shot at running deer, nor do I shoot at deer that are partially hidden in brush. I believe in a 100% shot otherwise I pass. Consequently, almost all deer I have shot are within 50 yards, many are even closer. Often I find that the bullet has passed thru the rib cage and out the other side. Could it be that the bullet is not doing enough damage to get the deer to drop sooner?

Martin, I hear ya! These two neck-shot deer on Saturday field dressed real nice with no bloody mess.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Could it be that the* bullet is not doing enough damage *to get the deer to drop sooner?



*Exactly*.

That's why I suggested a lighter, faster bullet that will give you more *expansion*, resulting in more tissue damage and hydrostatic shock effect


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## Tad (Apr 2, 2003)

Cabin Fever said:


> Here's a theory I'm gonna throw out for discussion. I hunt in a heavily timbered area. I don't shot at running deer, nor do I shoot at deer that are partially hidden in brush. I believe in a 100% shot otherwise I pass. Consequently, almost all deer I have shot are within 50 yards, many are even closer. Often I find that the bullet has passed thru the rib cage and out the other side. Could it be that the bullet is not doing enough damage to get the deer to drop sooner?
> .


I think that is probably the problem. I have a friend hunts with a .270 he shot a doe with a polimer tip hollow point at 75 yards. You could hardly tell what the organs were when they came out. A messy field dress but she folded up like a card table and that was it.


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

Goodness, you guys are getting too picky with your ammo talk.

All I know is that whatever ammo it is that I put into my Ruger .270 seems to work real well.

And one box lasts me at least 5 years so I don't need to buy it very often.
I know its "Remington...(something)"

Opening day is Nov 19 --- my birthday!

Hope the weather is good!
I'm getting too old for freezing wind and rain.


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

Cabin, I know that most of this is just conservation and redundant for you. I am sure that you know when and where to shoot a deer. You are like me, what ever is the best shot you can get. I don't think that they are going to be like on TV and let me have 5 min. to pick my shot at 20 yards. I have shot a lot of deer of the years, although not many as of late, not as mad at them as when I was younger. I have shot them in many place with gun and bow. I don't think I have ever lost one that I remember. Neck shots, lung, heart, backbone and all seems to work. I Have always used a pre 64 model 70 Win in 270 with an old 60's model Weaver scope. I live in and like you hunt the timber so must pick a good shot. I have even seen some shot in the rear end and they don't move with good shot placement. If one shoot one in the guts, you killed it, just might not find it. I don't shoot if I can't get the shot I want. The 30-30 as you know will kill any deer, just get the placement in a kill area. You are probably a better hunter than most of us, and killed many deer living where you do. I have a couple of pre 64 30-30's and one post and one 336 Marlin and like each of them. Eyes are not as good as once, nor ears for sure. Military took care of that. I have to use a scope and look extra close because an elephant could slip up on me. I would use one of the 30-30's if I felt confortable using one. I take my TC in 30-06 now, for about 5 years, still no deer with it. Could have, but waiting on the big one.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> *Exactly*.
> 
> That's why I suggested a lighter, faster bullet that will give you more *expansion*, resulting in more tissue damage and hydrostatic shock effect


Another thing with Heavy Bullet is I have found they will hold Blood in for a long distance.I just line up with the Leg,they seem to drop where they stand.

big rockpile


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

Nobody has mentioned the Texas neck shot, a long heavy bullet fired at the rump of a fleeing animal, and it ends up in the neck. 

I've shot deer with dozens of different calibers and usually several bullets in each. Everything from a tiny 17 caliber wildcat to a 50 BMG. I've found with a high velocity load, going faster than a 30-30, I like a high lung shot, broadside. Get a bullet of proper construction that will get in the lungs and pop them. The deer usually goes straight down and little meat is wasted. If it doesn't go down, the hole is up high and the blood fills the lungs and drowns them instead of bleeding them dry while they run. With slower loads and tougher, heavier bullets, I aim for bone, usually the front leg up high. That breaks them down and often nicks the lungs or spine. 

I've never used a 30-30 rifle on deer, but have used a 30-30 Improved in a 10" Contender on plenty of deer and antelope. Hornady used to make a 130 gr Single Shot Pistol bullet that has never failed to drop every animal in it's tracks for me. They no longer make it but I got some left. I bet if you try a 150 in your rifle instead of 170, you will get faster kills and less tracking.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2011)

In Firearms Saftey class we taught the heart lung area. I think you are right, that it's a bigger leathal area. For all the skill levels and weapons that are used, the heart lung area is easier to hit and will result in kill almost all the time.

It's forecast to be warm up here for the next several days. You will need to butcher those deer soon. If you don't have room in the freezer for both deer, I have an empty freezer in my garage and would be happy to store one for you. Just bring it along to lunch tommorrow. When you are ready for it back just e-mail me. I live in Montanna.


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## TnTnTn (Dec 23, 2004)

The circle on the neck shot diagram is twice the size that it should be for a sure instant kill. I generally aim for the heart/lung zone. I have killed a few with neck shots and they sure anchor them where they stand. Getting back to the op I prefer the 170g in the 30/30 because of the sure penetration. And if you shoot many you will see some run a good ways with a devastating hit. TTT


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

TnTnTn said:


> ... And if you shoot many you will see some run a good ways with a devastating hit. TTT


I shoot an average of two deer a year and some do run off quite a distance, many with an entry and exit hole.

I'm trying to wrap my mind around the idea of going to a faster, lighter bullet (ie, 150 g .30-30) being more potent. I've often been of the opinion that heavier, slower slugs bring things down faster ala .45acp, 12 ga slugs, etc. 

I've traditionally used Remington Core-Lok soft points in my .30-30. I'm not a big fan of switching brands and loads simply because I started with the Remingtons back 40 years ago and have annually sighted my rifle in with the same ammo I use for hunting. I guess I'm a creature of habit.

Maybe I'll look into hollow points or the Fusion ammo. You're kinda limited on ammo types for tube-fed lever actions.


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## alleyyooper (Apr 22, 2005)

I always bought 170 gr. winchester silver tips for my 30-30 and they did alright if i did my part. when I started reloading I droped down to the 150gr. silver tips. I still have several boxes of them left today. The 308 also got loaded with the 150gr. silver tips till you couldn't buy them for reloadiing any longer. I tried severl bullets in wet phone books and news papers till I found the 168gr. Sierra HPBT game kings. They work for me.

I also do not take risky shots if I don't have a chance at good shot place ment the deer walks rather than spend countless hours tracking a poor hit and much anzity or the suffering deer and my crappy shooting.

 Al


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## foxfiredidit (Apr 15, 2003)

Those are really nice deer CF, congrats on what you do there. The 45 acp can be improved upon, but it looks to me like you're doing okay with what has been working for you. I changed over to using slugs in my Remington 870, was really happy with the knock down power but after so many years the barrell on the 870 is not that accurate. So now I've dragged the 270 out of the closet and been practicing my long range shots from a static position, that because of a back injury has put a "hitch" in my "get-along". Hopefully that will improve as well and I can get back to moving about the woods as I like to do. 

Hang in there, I find that being familiar with what I shoot, and the comfort of so much previous experience with it makes up for a lot of muzzle velocity. I reckon I'd do some bowhunting if I didn't need to climb a tree.....but that ain't gonna happen either. Good bucks there.


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

Nice, seems to work for you, as I said you have killed many!


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## Tad (Apr 2, 2003)

Very nice deer CF! 12ga slugs do a number, where I live thats all I can use. I have killed three deer with slugs and the only one that took a step was one running at me but that was just momentum!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I've often been of the opinion that heavier, slower slugs bring things down faster ala .45acp, 12 ga slugs, etc.


You should see how my wife ZAPS them with a *95 gr *6mm bullet.

She's never had one go more than 50 yds, and many drop where they are standing


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You should see how my wife ZAPS them with a *95 gr *6mm bullet.
> 
> She's never had one go more than 50 yds, and many drop where they are standing


I agree on the bullet choice. Don't want a small fast bullet on a Griz. or moose for that part. The bigger the better. Jack O'Conner did not use light fast arrows. He had wood I think all the way. Although I shoot 130 in my .270. 180 in my 30-30's and what ever in my 30-06. Any will do the job.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

Neck shots work good if the distance is not too great and your capable of shooting that distance. I've been hunting for 40 years also, we always would take a shoulder shot. That way the animal would not be lost and that a good size area to shoot at. With my 308 I only shoot 150 grain Core-Locs, I've tried others and none of them every held up to the variety of hunting I do.

Bobg


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

unioncreek said:


> ...we always would take a shoulder shot.....


Does the shoulder shot waste much meat?


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

I do all my big game hunting with the Winchester .45 and shoulder shots. It doesn't do a lot of damage to the meat but really breaks up the bones. The deer or ek isn't able to move much. I like just ahead of the joint. Bears the same. No replacement for a big chunk of lead....James


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *Jack O'Conner* did not use light fast *arrows*. He had wood I think all the way


O'Conner was famous for using a 270.

I think you meant Fred Bear for the arrows


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Cabin Fever said:


> Does the shoulder shot waste much meat?


It ain't the size of the hole or broken bones but the potential shock damage. Even with a neck shot with the 50 gr. .222, there's a sizable chunk of shocked meat. When shot through a shoulder, generally both shoulders are damaged as well as everything in between. You are essentially damaging 3 separate parts of the deer. Granted, just about everything from the ribs forward ends up going through the grinder but it still has to be clean meat and not saturated with blood.

Martin


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## braggscowboy (Jan 6, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> O'Conner was famous for using a 270.
> 
> I think you meant Fred Bear for the arrows


You are right, and I knew better. Idols while growing up. Loved the old guys, and they knew what they talked of. Thanks!


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