# I just got cyber-clobbered



## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

I had the audacity to publicly state a few harsh truths on a non S&EP related website and got thoroughly pummeled, ridiculed, and insulted.

I told a bunch of moms that 

1) they should not plan to bug out to the country and squat on someone else's land, that they would not be welcome and with no house, no food, and no resources, that nature would not be kind to them or their families, and

2) they should not plan to mooch off of anyone else if the SHTF, unless they had an invitation. I think I said something like, don't joke about this now, your friends will not be amused and don't kid yourself, they will not feed you.

I had the nerve to suggest that even with an invite, they should show up ready for hard manual labor, and bring as many supplies as they could. Talk about beating a hornet's nest!

It honestly made me sick to my stomach to see how entrenched in denial many of these people are. Several of these same people had pm'd me about how they planned to hunt, although their family didn't own a gun but a relative did, and he used to hunt when he was young. They told me how they would just put up a tent and live in it - in the northern quarter of the US. They told me about plans to can in their dishwasher (???) and how they would burn wood to cook over their propane log fireplace, which would also heat the house. They don't wish to prep because they don't eat canned food.

They joined in rank against me and indicated open invitations to everyone to come sit around their campfires in peaceful unity after civilization collapses. (I kid you not.) If it comes down to their lives or someone else's, they say they have no problems with being the one to die. I am the hater, the fear monger who is quaking in my boots.

And it wasn't like I brought this topic up out of the blue. Several of them have been discussing in panicky tones about how they think bad times are coming. After getting those pm's, I felt obliged to be very frank about their chances of survival if fleeing to the undefined "wilderness" or of showing up on some relative or friend's doorstep with family in tow, to be put up for the duration.

Someone please pass me a cool cloth for my forehead and tell me I did the right thing by trying to tell them the truth, no matter how much they didn't want to hear it. Kill the messenger, indeed! That may well be the last time I try to be helpful to others in these matters.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Some can't handle truth and reality.

But just think of all the nice stuff that will be left when they are gone


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## Trisha in WA (Sep 28, 2005)

You never know who was lurking that got something from what you said. Even after the dust settles, maybe someone who posted against what you said will wake up because of the seed you planted. 
Yes, you did the right thing.


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

You did the right thing! If even ONE gets it and changes their ways it will be worth all of the nay sayers! I bet you opened a couple of eyes and the ones that are screaming the loudest just got the monkey wrench thrown into their plans because they just heard in clear terms what their friends and relatives have been trying to politely tell them.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

ovsfarm said:


> They joined in rank against me and indicated open invitations to everyone to come sit around their campfires in peaceful unity after civilization collapses. (I kid you not.) If it comes down to their lives or someone else's, they say they have no problems with being the one to die. I am the hater, the fear monger who is quaking in my boots.


I don't have a problem with them being the ones to die either.:goodjob: Unfortunately the campfire could be their entire city.

Suits me just fine, no one could store enough granola for folks like that or enough cheese to go with the inevitable whines when someone had the nerve to suggest that they touch dirt.

I understand a pacifist point of view but these folks sound like they need to lower the doses of their psychotropic medications because their plasticine smiles are a bit frightening to me. The way you described their responses was shockingly naive and dare I say, painfully ignorant? All prepanoia aside, IF there is a SHTF scenario and I do mean IF because we know we may be prepping for naught, those folks would be skarewed majorly.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

EEP.

During Colonial times a woman with many children was told to leave the colony because she insisted on giving Bible studies and they thought only a man should do that. When she left, she took her kids with her.

After half of the kids were dead she came back to the colony and begged them to take her back. They did.

The American Indians might have lived in the equivalent of tents, but, the American Indians knew what they were doing! And they would put up a store of dried food to supplement the winter hunting!


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Terri said:


> EEP.
> 
> During Colonial times a woman with many children was told to leave the colony because she insisted on giving Bible studies and they thought only a man should do that. When she left, she took her kids with her.
> 
> ...


I'm not understanding the relationship if the woman/kids preaching/going/coming back portion of that post to the experience ovsfarm just had.


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## windhound (Mar 18, 2008)

OMG, I know exactly what you're talking about. Was this a certain well known classical homeschooling forum?
I really don't hang out there much and never post (well I don't post much here either), but I stopped by there yesterday and saw a thread dealing with preparedness (or lack therof) and it kind of scared me. I will have to go back and read the rest of the thread now.
I'm sorry they ganged up on you but it doesn't surprise me. Sad, logic is supposed to be part of a classical education, but I don't see much of it over there at times.
I spend most of my time over here for a reason - the people are way cooler!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

That's what happens when you tell it the way it is in a sheeple/zombie forum. Those are the kind of people who will be eating their own children when starvation stares them in the face.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

I'm sorry you were attacked like that, breaks my heart that folks can be so mean spirited, and ignorant. Ants versus grasshoppers. You did good in trying to pass the word.


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

The problem is that they choose to be naive. They're probably wonderful people one on one, yet are just like my beautiful DIL who looked at my chickens the first time, covered her eyes and started repeating "those are not what I eat" over and over.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

I am also sorry that your efforts were met with negativity.
I feel sad/bad for them too though.
I can think of them trying to walk out of their suburban area with whining kids and no good shoes and no food or water etc... it will be an ugly day that will not end well.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

ovsfarm said:


> I had the audacity to publicly state a few harsh truths on a non S&EP related website and got thoroughly pummeled, ridiculed, and insulted.
> 
> I told a bunch of moms that
> 
> ...


Sounds like a bunch of idiots to me.

Kum-ba-yah and pass the long pig......


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

ovs ya gotta hope that non of those sheeple have your home addy.

Another problem will be as 'they' flee from ----- where ever to the "woods" that they can't find an open working MickyDee's........


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

AngieM2 said:


> I'm not understanding the relationship if the woman/kids preaching/going/coming back portion of that post to the experience ovsfarm just had.


A Mom in the woods with her kids and no shelter or food is likely to be in trouble. I guess I threw in the rest of the info to say WHY she and the kids were in to woods. Which is possibly irrelevant.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

No problem. I could care less if they want to take their tent to the closest State Park and sit there and wait for the government to come and save them.

There is simply no way to tell people what they don't want to hear.

I am aware of several serious preppers who are putting up enough so that they can take their non-prepping relatives in. So maybe your tent squatters have a place to go.

It's a never ending surprise to me the number of people who absolutely believe that they don't actually have to make the effort to learn skills. Logic just doesn't enter into it.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Ovsfarm, did you see any water when you intered that forum...'cause I think you crossed de-nile and wound up in la-la land. Folks that live there do not take kindly to baldly stated reality... don't you know that EVERYONE will welcome them(and all their dependants) with open arms and provide for their every need..Just like Uncle Sammy does....????


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Oh boy, don't feel bad, often anyone with a truthful, heartfelt conviction gets mocked. 

I just read an article and comments about a Glenn Beck program. They roasted him in the comments. The sad part is, after watching that particular 
program, it was clearly evident not one of the commentators had. You now join the ranks of some pretty big names that have been cyber clobbered! 

If someone comes and sqats on my land there is a special sign just for them. It should leave a nice scatter pattern in the bark ~evil grin~


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## tab (Aug 20, 2002)

Wind hound feel free to join more often! We don't snark very often.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Trisha in WA said:


> You never know who was lurking that got something from what you said. Even after the dust settles, maybe someone who posted against what you said will wake up because of the seed you planted.
> Yes, you did the right thing.


That's why I do it. And I get clobbered five times a week.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Terri said:


> A Mom in the woods with her kids and no shelter or food is likely to be in trouble. I guess I threw in the rest of the info to say WHY she and the kids were in to woods. Which is possibly irrelevant.


Thanks for the explaination Terri.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Like OW said, "There is simply no way to tell people what they don't want to hear."

Go ahead and post the website. Maybe we can ask them to invite us all over for snacks.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2011)

I get a big kick out of anyone who says if TSHTF they will move to the country and live off the land. i am a reasonably competant hunter and fisherperson and I know that this would be a very hard thing to accomplish. You have to know the lake or the countryside to find the fish and game. Then you have to kill it and clean it before you can eat it. I would starve before I found the fish and game in a strange area.

Right now these idiots drop their tabbys and hounds off in the country and tell the children that a friendly farmer will take them in or they will live off the land. In reality, if a dumped pet is lucky, the farmer will shoot them on sight. The farmer can't take them all in and he can't transport them 50 miles to the nearest shelter. The unlucky ones get eaten by the coyotes and wolves. I expect something similar would happen if the morons tried to move to the country.


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

In World War Z..great book.. there is a story about folks that run to the north to get away from the zombies. They go to a National Park.. them about several thousand other folks. The other idiots use explosives to fish and kill all the fish in the lake within days and they make huge bonfires and use all the wood within a few days. Then they are hungry and well.. yeah.
For me it was the part about being at the whim of the group. It seemed a very likely scenario. You go to the park and so do others.. only the others aren't very smart..


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

Sounds like they are prepping to me --------------------- to be slaves.


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

One poster said something about how the indians once lived off the land, so others can too. A lot of them seemed to think that the trucks will keep rolling and food would be on the shelves. I hope that's true, but we just don't know what will happen. As far as sharing goes, yeah maybe with my family, but does the average person have any idea how hard it is to grow a garden and care for animals? A lot of people have their head in the sand.
What a scary, condescending group of people.
Karen


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## jlrbhjmnc (May 2, 2010)

I don't understand that attitude. I just woke up and returned to my values in about the last 10-12 years and made my way slowly to the realities of needing to be prepared in the last two. I am SO grateful to people who will tell you the truth and even more grateful for those that share their knowledge and experience. People who will be honest with you really DO care for you.


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## Trixters_muse (Jan 29, 2008)

You did the right thing, if even one person actually listens and starts researching and learning and prepping then it was worth it. My talks fell on deaf ears for the longest time but little by little a few people I know have at least started buying extra canned goods, keep some cash and gas around and have alternate heating/cooling /cooking methods.

My 25 y/o nephew is still convinced he can pack a backpack and live off the land indefinitely because he DID spend a few months in Boy Scouts. LOL. This same kid had my daughter (when she was 15) show him how to scale a fish. Good Luck there Mr. Boy Scout....


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

ovsfarm - ya did the right thing! Someone has to say it. If you want to squat on my land and eat my garden/eggs/animals, you'd better be wearing bulletproof everything. My family is welcome, my bff is welcome, but that's it. I can't support anyone else.

What forum was this? - I'd love to read the thread.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I've been wondering about that forum/thread, also.

But, if it is revealed here or via PM - Please be on your best manners so if they get a wiff of some coming to read (an snicker in the crook of their arms, or shake their head in dismay) - we don't want to start a forum war.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Angie, the folks on this forum don't snicker..that is what smilies are for!:hysterical:


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

I think it's welltrainedmind.com. I'm not a member, but it was a good read.
Karen


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

I don't see why being a prepper is such a source of mockery and derision anyway. While I realize there are some "unique" types in our ranks who may take potential disasters a bit off the deep end, we aren't all like that.

I would never be so bold as to admit all the things I see that could potentially happen, anything could happen. My DH is pretty anti prep in a long term sense because his Dad was a conspiracy theorist in a bad way. *sigh* What I get by with is prepping for things like snow storms and "short term" road issues, possibly leading to shopping problems. I prep for job issues because you never can tell. I prep for regional disasters because tings like Katrina can happen anytime.

The majority of prep reasons are very mundane and quite benign. The smallest fraction of preppers focuses ONLY on things like NWO, asteroids, and the invasion of sasquatches from space. The rest of us just happen to be extra careful, so dang what, what is the big freakin deal anyway?

It's like as soon as you can shop once a month you turn into an instant freak to the average Joes. This coming from women who prep purses and have closets full of them that cost hundreds of dollars each. If you ask me that seems a bit "off" but whatever.:bash:


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## radiofish (Mar 30, 2007)

Well to see how much they can adapt to living in a tent, just go to any major campground during the tourista season. 
Watch as under the best of conditions, the folks unfamiliar with nature try to set up their campsites. 
That is why when I worked for the US Forest Service, we tried to not stay in a campground if at all possible!!

So how are they gonna 'rough it' during the bad weather, when they can't even make it in an improved campground during the summertime?? Are they gonna compete with the local wildife, as to scrounging thru the garbage cans for leftovers?

Being the first ready to die, if times get tough????? 
Those pacifists just might get their wish, if they trespass on the wrong piece of property! 
Do they expect charity and free grub, from where ever they happen to land at that day?

It sounds as if the filter of their 'gene pool' may need to be changed, in the near future..


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

I wandered over to that forum. I don't think you were "pummeled." A couple folks said some silly things they retracted upon consideration. I thought what you said was good.

(If you want to see pummeling, you need to find some usenet archives where pummeling was a regular sport.)


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## hurryiml8 (Apr 15, 2009)

radiofish said:


> Well to see how much they can adapt to living in a tent, just go to any major campground during the tourista season.
> Watch as under the best of conditions, the folks unfamiliar with nature try to set up their campsites.
> That is why when I worked for the US Forest Service, we tried to not stay in a campground if at all possible!!
> 
> ...


We sadly have a large segment of the population who expect that the government will always be there to help and provide and I am not just talking about the welfare population. Karen


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

that's how it is...."Stupid is as stupid does"

How many intellectuals do you know that could do anything that might require a lick of common sense?

And I don't want to care for them OR THEIR KIDS! because their kids will be just like them more than likely!


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

On the plus side, most of the zombies will be half dead (partially undead, I dunno?) before they ever think about *gasp* giving up on .gov coming to save them. Makes their range much shorter. In a TEOTWAWKI situation with no grid to power the water company a very large % of the population will perish within a couple weeks at best. The survivors will probably band into groups of pillaging barbarians who fight it out until they too have nothing. I see only a narrow window of opportunity for dangerous trespassers and those are the ones too smart to walk up your road in a angry mob anyway.

The beauty of it is that gas pumps won't work, most don't know how to get past that and clogged roads would stop traffic anyway. Not too many dangerous types who even realize the countryside has anything to offer. Afterall, food comes from the store, everyone knows that.

Though there is a remote risk of isolated and highly skilled raiders I think we greatly overestimate the average zombie mentality. Even with a good shopping cart of gear and a high end stroller for the baggage (kids) there is only so far a family can get. Our biggest concern should be single men who own firearms and weren't either 1.Military or 2.Hunters.

On the plus side I would take the odds on country boys with hunting rifles over city boys with hand guns any day.:viking: Add to that a knowledge of the land and you have a fierce home field advantage.


That thread was uber funny BTW. Nothing like a hippy Momma going commando on ya...they can come stay here with me, I plan on keeping a "permanently indentured staff".


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

I went and read that section of the long thread. She was starting to get torn apart and put down as expecting zombie aliens. I am glad to see a couple of others came to back her up later - and at least one asking on how to start prepping. I think Karen did some good with her post.

Of course, if the nay sayers had tumbled here - I do think they'd really think some of us were really out of our heads, etc.

One thing I did note - when the nay sayers were talking about land they come back and say they're going to buy it - if things are that bad, they may have difficulties, if they are not purchasing that land now and letting the people there know and get use to the idea that they belong there.

You did good, and I do think you woke up at least one, that I saw asking on how to get started prepping.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> the invasion of sasquatches from space


I had totally forgotten to plan ahead for that.

Now I'm behind again


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I had totally forgotten to plan ahead for that.
> 
> Now I'm behind again


It's a Monsanto scheme to flush out self sufficient homesteaders. They hybridized aliens and sasquatch. I much prefer heirloom monsters because they have a foil hat resistance. 

Of course, aliens are open pollinated and yeti/sasquatch/bigfoots (feets?) are on the endangered species list. Leave it to Monsanto lobbyists to go and mess things up. Now sasquatches from space are patented and protected so when we are under attack we can be sued for having them on our property and fined for shooting them out of season.

The only way to prep is to hide by moving to the city and waiting for further instructions from the .gov.


Being stupid is it's own reward!


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## wogglebug (May 22, 2004)

Nimrod said:


> I get a big kick out of anyone who says if TSHTF they will move to the country and live off the land. i am a reasonably competant hunter and fisherperson and I know that this would be a very hard thing to accomplish. You have to know the lake or the countryside to find the fish and game. Then you have to kill it and clean it before you can eat it. I would starve before I found the fish and game in a strange area.
> 
> Right now these idiots drop their tabbys and hounds off in the country and tell the children that a friendly farmer will take them in or they will live off the land. In reality, if a dumped pet is lucky, the farmer will shoot them on sight. The farmer can't take them all in and he can't transport them 50 miles to the nearest shelter. The unlucky ones get eaten by the coyotes and wolves. I expect something similar would happen if the morons tried to move to the country.


It's not my favoured scenario, but if troubles with dumped/becoming feral pets start, you need to stop it quick. That being the case, what the prepared prepper should do, from the word "go", is kill the feral dogs before they start forming packs - probably even while they still think people are nice and friendly. If you want dogs you don't have, about now is the time to make your choice. SSS no longer means "shoot, shovel and shup-up". It means "shoot, skin, and smoke or salt-down". So skin, gut, clean and butcher the rest of them. Dry, smoke, or salt the meat. Tan the skins to wrap baby bunting in - or throw on top of the beds and cribs, or make a quick poncho, young Ms Devile. Feed the scraps to the poultry or the pigs. You may not want it now, but you may want the dog meat before spring, and if not it's still meat, and good trade goods, as would be the skins. Ms P.E.Ta may well have a different view of things when she's freezing, starving, and only just escaped feral dog packs.


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## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

I read the thread and man did I laugh.

Of course, my dad grew up during the Depression, on a farm. If you wanted to eat in December and January, you HAD to prep all summer.

People who have to go to the grocery store every day (or even a couple times a week) are stupid.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Threads as this make me glad that my father taught me to appreciate single shot and double barrel shotguns and bolt action rifles more than the average folks do.


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## jerrwhy (Jan 12, 2010)

We've become such a nation of entitlement that people think they're entitled to the fruits of your labors, or that it's your duty to get take care of them should their luck run out. Personally, I tend not to preach, or try to lead people to the prepping altar, that's not to say that I don't make myself available to help. If you think about it from a psychological standpoint we entertaining ideas and notions that people really aren't comfortable with and they don't want to acknowledge how fragile their world might be. They don't want to be shown their helplessness.


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## trkarl (Dec 15, 2009)

Mark 6:4 "Jesus said to them, âA prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household.â

And I would add among his own countrymen. You did the right thing.


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## Ode (Sep 20, 2006)

Just a thing I have noticed, is how a lot of people use that arguement about how the native americans lived off the land and whatnot, and how they plan to do the same (as if they are somehow a more "pure" prepper because they can survive with so little compared to the softie preppers who actually prepare with stuff). They all seem to think it will be easy because they know how to hunt and live in the woods for unlimited amounts of time with nothing but their trusty knife as their only tool! In reality, very few people have that skillset, and even the ones who do would probably be dirty, cold, hungry, and uncomfortable after a pretty short time. When the native americans were busy living their unspoiled, pure existance before the coming of the europeans the population base was pretty small. Even with a much lower population, they had to move regularly in order to have fresh game hunting areas and places to gather wild foods.

Ron White says "You can't fix stupid," and he is right. You just can't make some people see reason.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

Thank heavens I have not run into this personally....I only participate on a few select forums, and most of them are of the self reliant category at least. 

I am pretty sure we'd end up with a neighborhood redoubt of sorts here, lots of skills and resources, not much in production garden space-but equipment to get it done. I would have family arriving for sure, and to each of them that has made a comment in passing: No free rides, work work work and more work, and you are expected to bring ALL supplies you have, period. Thankfully, most have fairly well stocked pantries, a hold over from a not so good time in the past. 

There won't be a moose within 400 miles of here, inside three weeks though. That's the sad thing. They'll be hunted right out.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

There is no one, true way.

Some farmers may welcome strays, and put them to work. Before the days of mechanization it took a LOT of hands to work a farm! So some of them really might be welcome at their friends houses.

And, I think that it will not get to that point. My idea of prepping is more to keep the bank from taking the home place, not zombies. 

I have to admit that the idea that Indians could live off the land and therefore so could homeless people made me shudder a bit. For every Indian we now have what, 50 people?


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## chickenista (Mar 24, 2007)

And folks think it was easy for Indians.. well it wasn't.
They got sick and died, they had bad years and starved etc.. adn they had about a thousand years to perfect their hunting and farming techniques, warm tents and/or lodges etc.. Even an Indian would die if you just dumped him off in the woods away from his civilization.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Interesting - that whole long thread is now gone. It must have gotten too much attention or gotten worse after we read it last night.

I was going to go read the beginning 16 pages as I'd only read from page 16 to end last night.

Oh well, we can wish the ones with open eyes, and opening eyes - good prepping, and the closed eyed ones - may their eyes be opened.

Prepping is nothing more than being a bit more like our grand parents and great grand parents.

I'm still surprised at people who poke at us that try to be ready to take care of ourselves and get through difficult times; short term or long term.

Self-Responsibility. maybe that's less scarey than Self-Reliant.


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## Horse Fork Farm (Jan 3, 2006)

The old adage... Some people can't be helped, comes to mind. You tried your best, and if you try 25 more times the result will still be the same. If it upsets you and you dwell on it overmuch, it will impact your own life negatively. You did your best and all you can do is spend less time at that forum and more time here with people who understand the gravity of whats happening. If someone did catch the spark, a google search on prep will head them in the right direction! You did good.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

The first 16 pages were a total yawn. I didn't know where the action started so I just started at the first page. You only missed some small talk and links. I imagine we have well outdone the links in here already.


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## bee (May 12, 2002)

Just a passing note on Indian Survival..there was a reason they called Feburary "The Starving Moon"....

My mother is the only one in my family that is "on board" with prepping. I don't really push it with my sisters and nieces anymore..."there is no need to prep, besides I have no space to store or money to "waste" "...
Money and space for all those cell phones and wide screens..and the sevice plans tho..


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

These are exactly the kind of people we need to be concerned about. 

They may not look threatening, but they are.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Our Little Farm said:


> These are exactly the kind of people we need to be concerned about.
> 
> They may not look threatening, but they are.


A couple of bandits I can probably handle. But a desperate mother with a starving toddler trying to carry off a squawking chicken in the night? That's going to be a real problem for me. 

The fact that SO MANY city and suburban folks think their survival plan consists of just "getting out of the city" should clue us all in to the impending danger. We don't all have the luxury of living 30 miles down a dirt road, across a creek, around the bend, and up a steep hill. There's a lot of potential hungry people clustered right around me.


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## scott (May 11, 2002)

hehe... sorry ya had to endure the treatment.. I've run into the same thing myself... over a poodle killing chickens ... poodle owner was livid when the chicken owner showed up wanting to give the death sentence to the poodle. But the poor lady had had that poodle for 10 years and it would never do something like that...ha... i was the only one standing up for the chicken owner... it was even asked why he couldn't go to the store and get his eggs like everyone else... 

Don't feel alone...


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

im with ernie. and another thought...what do you do when someone drops off their children, beieving you can feed them? it happens even today...maybe not so much here...but even here it does. OF course, now we have foster families and the state (what a joke) who can at least provide basics (most foster families are wonderful..it's the state moving these kids around that's a joke) I was a foster kid. I aged out of the system. It was hard enough. 

But I look at neighbor kids...I think about what might happen....

Forget it, I am making a new thread.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

I live in an area where a lot of people hunt and fish. 

In a bad situation, the game and fish will be depleted very rapidly. I can't even imagine somebody moving in and hunting or fishing with much success.


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## BoldViolet (Feb 5, 2009)

ovsfarm- 

Do you mind if I re-post your entry on other forums? It's very telling.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

It is sad that there seems to be so many keyboard cowboys that sit there with their trusty 12" booie knife clenched firmly in their teeth expounding about how easy it will be for them to go hit the woods and survive come what may. "Of course the wife and kiddies will be just fine while I slay a deer". (with my knife)

The stench of decaying bodies could become a bit much...........


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

You did the right thing. It's always good to try to inform others of impending danger (anonymously of course!) so they can prepare for it. If they choose to not prep, your conscience is clear. 

I can think of a lot of old saying that fit many people. Things like "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". 

It's sad that so many people who have the funds to prep well choose not to.


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## Ardie/WI (May 10, 2002)

To the OP!

If it is the first time you've been ridiculed, pummeled and insulted, you're doing pretty good!

It happens to us all one time or another.


:runforhills:


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

I feel for you. I am one that tells people they ned to think about their purchases, and with (literally) zero income at the moment, and on welfare (flinches) I know that at this point in time it IS possible to store food, if nothing else. It makes me sick to hear sme people's reactions, but, you DID do the right thing, and they are the ones who ultimately choose life or death for their families, if worst comes to it.


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## LonelyNorthwind (Mar 6, 2010)

Hey, OP! I'd love a link to that website. It sounds like an entertaining read!

Don't worry about their behavior. You just can't fix stupid.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

This really has nothing to do with those who are not prepared, but I'd like to point out that _all_ of us are going to have a seriously bad time of it if we must leave our homestead and take off on foot cross country and the closest safe spot is 2-3 states away.

Life in a refugee camp is barely tolerable and there are only refugee camps if the government (or some government ) is still functioning. 

If it is difficult for us, it is going to be impossible for those with no skills at all.


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## Fat Charlie (Sep 9, 2010)

ovsfarm- the hunters who know someone who has a rifle were funny. Do the campers also know someone who owns a tent?


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

During the great depression, there were a lot of people willing to work for food. I'd like to find a way to prep for that & have a lot of work ready to be done, enough food for the workers, and a place for them to stay. With more people working here, we could grow aa lot more food - plus we'd have extra people to provide security. You know the first people to show up won't be dumb strangers like those people on the forum. They will be friends & family you can't say "no" to. Rather than storing enough food to feed my houshold indefinitely, I want to be prepared to be able to grow & store as much as possible, "just add workers."


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

ovsfarm said:


> I had the audacity to publicly state a few harsh truths on a non S&EP related website and got thoroughly pummeled, ridiculed, and insulted.
> 
> I told a bunch of moms that
> 
> ...


So, I take it Ovsfarm Inn will be closed after the SHTF? Harrumph!  I know a lot of relatives who are treated like guests at a B&B when they visit their rural relatives... but when we visit them, it's hotels and restaurants, on our dime. The Texican Inn will be closed also... as if any of my neat freak relatives would want to get theirselves dirtified out here on this empire of dirt (mud).



Riverdale said:


> Sounds like a bunch of idiots to me.
> 
> Kum-ba-yah and pass the long pig......


Long pig will be very popular, imho, with those currently in denial...



Nimrod said:


> I get a big kick out of anyone who says if TSHTF they will move to the country and live off the land. i am a reasonably competant hunter and fisherperson and I know that this would be a very hard thing to accomplish. You have to know the lake or the countryside to find the fish and game. Then you have to kill it and clean it before you can eat it. I would starve before I found the fish and game in a strange area.


Ditto... this is the survival/prep plan for most of the 'bubbas' that I know...



AngieM2 said:


> I've been wondering about that forum/thread, also.
> 
> But, if it is revealed here or via PM - Please be on your best manners so if they get a wiff of some coming to read (an snicker in the crook of their arms, or shake their head in dismay) - we don't want to start a forum war.


pardon my slowness... I haven't discerned the other forum yet! I looked on the well trained mind site, and it seemed pretty blaise... quick forum scan... nada... further reading here, says the post was removed.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

yep texican - it appears gone when I went to re-read today.
I don't think we had anything to do with that, unless they saw more guests reading it or something.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I read a few pages of the thread where the OP got cyber-clobbered. Most of the posts were both intelligent and thoughtfull.

Thee were a couple who were pretty clueless. They obviously did not have the data. That does not mean they were not clever, it just meant they had never seen the material before.

Mos tof the others DID see that it would be a big job, but figured that many hands to do the work would take care of things. While that would help, they did not seem to understand that in most of the nation, there is a very narrow window of time in which to plant. If it hits the fan any other time of year, then many hands will not help enough.

It looks like a very intelligent bunch on that forum. But, intelligence without data is not usually enough.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Well, I say you are Brave. Good for you, a few folks might ask you for more help in finding the Sources for some Education in Survival.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

fffarmergirl said:


> During the great depression, there were a lot of people willing to work for food. I'd like to find a way to prep for that & have a lot of work ready to be done, enough food for the workers, and a place for them to stay. With more people working here, we could grow aa lot more food - plus we'd have extra people to provide security. You know the first people to show up won't be dumb strangers like those people on the forum. They will be friends & family you can't say "no" to. Rather than storing enough food to feed my houshold indefinitely, I want to be prepared to be able to grow & store as much as possible, "just add workers."


If the shtf today, and your friends/family/workers showed up tomorrow... would you have enough food on hand to feed them all, until the harvests in mid summer, early fall?

Stockpiled 'work' is an excellent concept. I have a few lifetimes worth of stockpiled work on the place here. 

It'd be a good idea, to have a years supply of food on hand, at minimum, for your own family, and enough for those stragglers that show up, for at least six months... till that hoped for harvest comes off. A full year, minimum, for all expected stragglers/family/workers, etc., would be best. Prepare for the worst scenario possible, and the lesser ones will be easy....

Keep two years worth of seeds, and two years worth of food, and supplies on hand... that way if we have a season killer (volcanic activity destroying a summer growing season), and everything green is killed, you'll have enough seeds to plant again, and enough food to survive on in the first place.

...I know my scenarios are 'meaner' than most. Unemployment, economic troubles, and other 'stuff' happens, but there's usually still some local or regional support systems still functioning. If everything stops, I hope to have enough to go two years without troubles...


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## Shrarvrs88 (May 8, 2010)

I agree with you Texican. Plan for the absolute worst (alien/sasquatch hybrids anyone? lol) and if little things happen instead, it won't phase you as bad as if THAT had been the worst you were planning for.


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

I think they are pretty representative of the masses of sheeple out there. I think so many of them think that someone will bail them out. It seems to me that there will be hoards of idiots roaming around if we get into a SHTF scenario. I have an idea that there will be a first wave of the totally unprepared followed by a second wave of people who prepared for a few weeks followed by a third wave of those who have prepared for a few months. Those of us who are prepared and also work hard, garden, raise animals and have plan A, B and Z will hopefully make it through all of the violence and desperation of others.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

We currently have enough for us for a year & we're gearing up to produce a lot more of our own food. This will be the fourth year gardening, 3rd year raising meat chickens & canning . . . . It will be at least 2 more years before we can be food self-sufficient.

We're going to concentrate more on corn, beans, squash, potatoes & tomatoes this year. Flour corn, dry beans, winter squash . . . All easy to save the seeds from, all heirloom varieties. Its our third year saving seeds. Unless we have to, we probably won't eat all that much corn, but we're working up to growing enough to survive on. If we don't eat it, we'll feed it to livestock.

With the seed we've saved we could grow ten times as much as we need . . . if we had the time or help.

Next we're buying a pair of meat rabbits. We won't breed them unless we have to, but we already have 10 angora rabbits & they're worth feeding just. For the wonderful fertilizer they produce (not to mention the fiber).

We should all be making plans for how we can eincrease the food we're producing, in case people do show up willing to work to grow the food. Historically, they have. People sent their kids to farms to live & work when they couldn't afford to feed them.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Its scary thinking about all the people who think they can just store a bunch of "survival seeds" to start a garden with when they need to. If u wait until u need to, it will be too late. 

Sorry for typos, by the way. I write from my phone.


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## sarhound (Mar 11, 2008)

Thread is still there, up to 23 pages. It didn't get as wild as General Chat does.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Okay - I found it again, on page 7 of that forum.
And a couple are even talking about having a stock pile of some necessary meds. Then the thread is now closed.


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## manygoatsnmore (Feb 12, 2005)

You know, that's just weird. About the point that folks were posting in support of OP's position and coming around to the idea of storing up meds and food, the thread gets locked? It wasn't even a hot debate. :shrug:


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## Astrid (Nov 13, 2010)

The survival seed storage people don't realize how just putting seeds in the ground doesn't ensure that they will get anything for their trouble. Never mind that the variety of vegetable may not be right for the area they are in, or the soil requirements, temperature requirements, and everything else that needs to be done to get a seed to grow. Never mind that some seeds need to be started weeks before planting.. etc.. etc..
In some places the topsoil has been scraped off by the contractor or builder to sell and all there is left is an inch or so. Most people have no idea.


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## Texasdirtdigger (Jan 17, 2010)

"Most people have no idea." EXACTLY!!


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

fffarmergirl said:


> During the great depression, there were a lot of people willing to work for food. I'd like to find a way to prep for that & have a lot of work ready to be done, enough food for the workers, and a place for them to stay. With more people working here, we could grow aa lot more food - plus we'd have extra people to provide security. You know the first people to show up won't be dumb strangers like those people on the forum. They will be friends & family you can't say "no" to. Rather than storing enough food to feed my houshold indefinitely, I want to be prepared to be able to grow & store as much as possible, "just add workers."


There is another side to that coin...remember that if everything breaks down, like we are assuming, your ownership title to the land is basically worthless. So, bringing people in also carries the danger ( an almost guaranteed response given human nature ) of those types who seek to 'take charge'. It might seem benign at first, in fact a guy who works hardest and begins to take 'ownership' of the situation might be an asset in the beginning. But as he sees himself entitled to more and more on the basis of his contribution...and as he gains allies based on the strength of his personality, he may begin to view your land as not being 'yours' after a while.

OR groups will start to form clicks and you may find yourself on the 'outs', as natural resentment for your position as owner and controller of the homestead finds its outlet in some pretext which unites people against you. In the end you might find yourself working for and under the thumb of the very same people you sought to help in exchange for honest work on your homestead.

There are about three people in the world that I would let on my homestead in the case of a SHTF breakdown...and two of them are relatives. There are several relatives that I would turn away, at the point of a gun if necessary....for no other reason than they are bringing too many kids with them. I have a cousin that would be a great asset, but he is dragging 4 kids with him...it might sound hard hearted but thats the way I would view things.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Texasdirtdigger said:


> "Most people have no idea." EXACTLY!!





Astrid said:


> The survival seed storage people don't realize how just putting seeds in the ground doesn't ensure that they will get anything for their trouble. Never mind that the variety of vegetable may not be right for the area they are in, or the soil requirements, temperature requirements, and everything else that needs to be done to get a seed to grow. Never mind that some seeds need to be started weeks before planting.. etc.. etc..
> In some places the topsoil has been scraped off by the contractor or builder to sell and all there is left is an inch or so. Most people have no idea.


I've looked at some of those survival seed kits. Nowhere does it say what region of the country the seeds are good for. The ones I was looking at were from Texas. They did include corn, beans, & squash - which was good. Having them is better than having nothing, but a family planting them for the first year should realize they'll need other food sources for 2-3 years while they build up their garden.

All this planning could be for nothing anyway . . . . But the more time goes by, the more I think Americans need to start growing our own food very soon.


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## Dukepowerhand (Feb 2, 2011)

kirkmcquest said:


> There is another side to that coin...remember that if everything breaks down, like we are assuming, your ownership title to the land is basically worthless. So, bringing people in also carries the danger ( an almost guaranteed response given human nature ) of those types who seek to 'take charge'. It might seem benign at first, in fact a guy who works hardest and begins to take 'ownership' of the situation might be an asset in the beginning. But as he sees himself entitled to more and more on the basis of his contribution...and as he gains allies based on the strength of his personality, he may begin to view your land as not being 'yours' after a while.
> 
> OR groups will start to form clicks and you may find yourself on the 'outs', as natural resentment for your position as owner and controller of the homestead finds its outlet in some pretext which unites people against you. In the end you might find yourself working for and under the thumb of the very same people you sought to help in exchange for honest work on your homestead.
> 
> There are about three people in the world that I would let on my homestead in the case of a SHTF breakdown...and two of them are relatives. There are several relatives that I would turn away, at the point of a gun if necessary....for no other reason than they are bringing too many kids with them. I have a cousin that would be a great asset, but he is dragging 4 kids with him...it might sound hard hearted but thats the way I would view things.


Excellent point. I kind of feel the same way. A work ready, shtf homestead seems to be inviting trouble.


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## coehorn (Jul 29, 2009)

chickenista said:


> In World War Z..great book.. there is a story about folks that run to the north to get away from the zombies. They go to a National Park.. them about several thousand other folks. The other idiots use explosives to fish and kill all the fish in the lake within days and they make huge bonfires and use all the wood within a few days. Then they are hungry and well.. yeah.
> For me it was the part about being at the whim of the group. It seemed a very likely scenario. You go to the park and so do others.. only the others aren't very smart..





The Kumbaya crowds will gather and exploit anything available for a few days ....... until they attract the attention of the "wolves". Then, they will be made into slaves or slaughtered. Possibly they will be eaten.

The culling of the zombie herd will probably take 30 days or so.


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## Dukepowerhand (Feb 2, 2011)

coehorn said:


> The Kumbaya crowds will gather and exploit anything available for a few days ....... until they attract the attention of the "wolves". Then, they will be made into slaves or slaughtered. Possibly they will be eaten.
> 
> The culling of the zombie herd will probably take 30 days or so.


Wow! Thats harsh, bro.:bash:


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## Fat Charlie (Sep 9, 2010)

manygoatsnmore said:


> You know, that's just weird. About the point that folks were posting in support of OP's position and coming around to the idea of storing up meds and food, the thread gets locked? It wasn't even a hot debate. :shrug:


If you have the lock button on your screen, that's how you clobber someone. While humming Kum ba ya, of course.


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## coehorn (Jul 29, 2009)

Dukepowerhand said:


> Wow! Thats harsh, bro.:bash:





The other day, I watched a cat chase down and eat a squirrel. He played with it awhile before he killed it. Ever watch animals eat each other? 

Nature is harsh. Make no mistake, the human animal is the most dangerous of all.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Thanks a lot, guys. To be honest, I felt a bit hurt when I saw the responses my well intended post got, after being on that website for 7 years. You all made me feel like I am not as crazy as they said.

The bottom line is that I'd love to see all the urbanites start to get the idea that they will not find an easy life out in the country if fleeing serious urban troubles. I don't want them to count on us as an escape hatch - both for their good and ours.

I also would love to put an end to the presumption that survival skills are quick to learn and easy to employ. It irritates the life of me to hear people who have never hunted, gardened, or raised livestock assume that they will just take a day or so and pick up those skills if TSHTF. (let alone know how to clean/skin, cook, or preserve any of the foodstuffs they might actually acquire) I think it is the ignorance combined with the arrogance that stomps my buttons so badly.

One other hot button issue for me was the comment that the American Indians lived so well and communally on the land, so why can't the displaced urbanites. Do they not have any concept of the infant mortality rate for those happy, noble Indians? Do they not get the concept of the thousands of years of violent conflict over hunting grounds and other resources? Some of my ancestors were Cherokee and their history was certainly not one of happily skipping lightly through life. Warfare, famine, and struggle were a way of life for them for hundreds of years. Only the strong DID survive.

Thanks again for the response I got here on this site. I guess it shows who my friends really are.

I tend to be the type of person who wants the win-win scenario. I want to share what meager knowledge I have to help others. But not at the expense of being ridiculed and criticized. Life is too short to take that kind of abuse. So, from now on unless someone asks me directly about these things, I will remain mumm and leave them to their own devices/delusions.


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## FourDeuce (Jun 27, 2002)

I wouldn't worry about a "cyber-clobbering" from them. They are the type that couldn't clobber their way out of a wet paper bag. In fact, it's partly their frustration at knowing you are right that gets them so mad.:cowboy:


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

There are none so blind as those who will not look and see.
There are none so deaf as those who will not listen and hear.

I say to each there own, offer what you can. if it is rejected or unappreciated save your effort and your resource. Any more would be a further waste.

To help your fellow man is a good thing, but you only owe yourself. 
we all cast our lot in life, if you wagered poorly and with out consideration to others shame on you. though I will wish the best for you and may even give you a chance to help yourself. now if you just wagered poorly and considered everyone , that is the Darwin effect I guess.
But I shall not carry you nor your burdens as my load is already heavy,and my debt is none.

many have never seen real human nature, and those who have will tell you its not nice.


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## stormaq (Oct 26, 2008)

I'll hold the cool washcloth to your forehead. I'm sorry you got lamblasted like that. That's why I'm very careful what I say to folks that are "in denial".


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## keyhole (Dec 2, 2008)

ovsfarm said:


> I had the audacity to publicly state a few harsh truths on a non S&EP related website and got thoroughly pummeled, ridiculed, and insulted.
> 
> I told a bunch of moms that
> 
> ...


Sounds like they are part of the obligatory Prozac clan!!! Nothng is wrong with them but they think they should be a victim of something!!!! It might turn out to be "*starvation"!!!!*


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

I used to be a member of that particular forum. I had to leave. My tongue hurt from biting it, and that was on EDUCATIONAL issues.


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