# Alternative electricity - an inconvenient truth



## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

In this thread you can see some opinions about alternative electricity. Personally, I agree in general with some statements posted below, and therefore I created and uploaded the first two videos.

*To my opponents - please provide us the real evidences to prove your statements and to make our conversation more productive.*

Let's start with these statements: "...Modern solar systems use components that radiate radio frequency electromagnetic radiation, which can cause the symptoms. *The main problem is the inverter*, which is a device that takes the electricity from the solar panels and turns it into alternating current (AC) and puts it out on the electrical grid. The inverter generates radio frequency radiation. The wires connected to the inverter act as antennas, so the radiation may be picked up hundreds of feet away from the inverter. There have been cases where a solar-electric system became a problem for an electrically sensitive person living next door...
It is easy to demonstrate that the solar system generates dirty electricity. One method is to take a simple AM radio, set the dial at the lowest frequency and hold the radio near the solar panels or wires. A lot of static and buzzing should be heard, which goes away when taking the radio well away from the building. Another method is to buy a Stetzer meter and plug it into any outlet fed by the solar system..."
More details are posted here: http://www.eiwellspring.org/SolarEMFHazard.pdf

"It is not disputed that electromagnetic fields above certain levels can trigger biological effects. Experiments with healthy volunteers indicate that short-term exposure at the levels present in the environment or in the home do not cause any apparent detrimental effects. Exposures to higher levels that might be harmful are restricted by national and international guidelines. *The current debate is centred on whether long-term low level exposure can evoke biological responses and influence people's well being*." http://www.who.int/peh-emf/about/WhatisEMF/en/index1.html

Three videos below show how to "see" a "dirty electricity".
In my videos I used _GE_ radio and _ElectroSenser_ electromagnetic field detector (field strength in milligauss - 30 mG Max.).:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XblWsYmr6Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSONVhBhpmg

"The human health problems around solar power systems is in the process of emerging. We take a look at the magnetic fields that can be found around the inverter systems. More information can be found in the books "Electromagnetic Fields" by B. Levitt, "Cross Currents" by R. Becker, "The Invisible Disease" by G. Nordstrom, "Light, Radiation, and you" by J. Ott, "Dirty Electricity" by S. Milham:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mVIfsp8Fl0


In fact, there are simple solutions to reduce some negative health impacts of electromagnetic exposure.

Boris Romanov


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## katlupe (Nov 15, 2004)

I am not a technical person, so I can't answer intelligently about the health risks, though I know all electricity has the same health risks. But what if you don't use an inverter, and just hook up all DC appliances and gadgets. Would that eliminate it since then you don't need the inverter?


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

katlupe said:


> I am not a technical person, so I can't answer intelligently about the health risks, though I know all electricity has the same health risks. But what if you don't use an inverter, and just hook up all DC appliances and gadgets. Would that eliminate it since then you don't need the inverter?


"...It is possible to use solar-electric systems without this radiation, but they are not suitable for most people. One will have to do like the off-grid pioneers did in the 1970s and 1980s, using 12 volt DC electricity with no inverter, and just a simple charge controller. There are people doing it (including this author), but it is a significant lifestyle change..."
http://www.eiwellspring.org/SolarEMFHazard.pdf

In addition - try to analyze my second video (without an inverter), if you are going to install solar panels on the roof of your house.

Boris Romanov


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Not true. 

But just for fun and so I could state FACT, I just made sure by going into our power room and tested your statement. No buzz. Touched the operating inverter with the radio. No buzz.

Take an am radio and wander around any on-grid house. It may or may not buzz depending on where you are. Be sure to test your am radio idea near fluorescent light bulbs. 

There is rf in all homes/schools/offices/stores. Everywhere. There is emf in all homes/schools etc that have electricity. Everywhere.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/solar...l-against-solar-electric-system-my-house.html

....


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

Gray Wolf said:


> Not true.
> 
> But just for fun and so I could state FACT, I just made sure by going into our power room and tested your statement. *No buzz. Touched the operating inverter with the radio. No buzz.*
> 
> ...



Please read the recommendation from the article more carefully:
"...One method is to take a simple AM radio, *set the dial at the lowest frequency* and hold the radio near the solar panels or wires..."
Of course for the real testing your have to use professional tools like an electromagnetic field detector- see the last video.

Boris Romanov


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I don't think I could provide enough evidence to prove that modern solar systems are 100% safe from EM effects. I don't think anyone else could either, especially if your mind is made up and no comparable standard is given to be met to qualify as safe.
The only thing I could offer is empirical evidence. I don't know how many millions of people are in close proximity to DC electricity being converted to AC every day, but there doesn't seem to be an epidemic of ill effects being reported from daily car and truck drivers, people around large and small power generators and others that I could think of if I tried hard enough.
:shrug:
Is this a question that you truly want an answer to, or rather a position you've taken and want to prove correct to any and all?


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## katlupe (Nov 15, 2004)

Boris said:


> "...It is possible to use solar-electric systems without this radiation, but they are not suitable for most people. One will have to do like the off-grid pioneers did in the 1970s and 1980s, using 12 volt DC electricity with no inverter, and just a simple charge controller. There are people doing it (including this author), but it is a significant lifestyle change..."
> http://www.eiwellspring.org/SolarEMFHazard.pdf
> 
> In addition - try to analyze my second video (without an inverter), if you are going to install solar panels on the roof of your house.
> ...


We have some AC, that runs with the inverter, but also some DC items that are hooked directly into our system and not the inverter. Once we hooked up our refrigerator that runs on DC, I liked it so much that I'd like to do more of that and not even use an inverter if possible. Our house is not a conventional house and we live without most conveniences. 

Our panels at present are on the barn roof and on the ground, but we are thinking of putting them all on the ground only. We are getting older and it is easier to care for them that way. And if anything happened to my husband, I could never even clean them off up there.

I haven't been able to view your videos presently because my connection is running too slow today. I will try in a day or so.


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## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Dear Lord, please turn off the electrical systems within all our bodies. I do not want my body to interact with a capacitive touch-screen and do not want cell-phones to work in my presence. However, you may keep my brain and heart function working and increase it in other posters who have an unreasoned fear of electricity and wish to spread fear. Amen.


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

katlupe said:


> ...I haven't been able to view your videos presently because my connection is running too slow today. I will try in a day or so.


I would recommend you to see Steven Magee's video (the last one) too. Steven Magee is the author of the book "Toxic Electricity".

Boris Romanov


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2014)

Don't carry your cell phones around in your bra's folks . There is reason to believe higher breast cancer rates among people who do this .


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Boris said:


> Please read the recommendation from the article more carefully:
> "...One method is to take a simple AM radio, *set the dial at the lowest frequency* and hold the radio near the solar panels or wires..."
> Of course for the real testing your have to use professional tools like an electromagnetic field detector- see the last video.
> 
> Boris Romanov


I have done this, and the results from AC are much higher/more easily noted.
MRI comes to mind...along with the microwave...

Matt


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## Solar Geek (Mar 14, 2014)

Altho there may be some EMF from inverters, there are studies showing the low levels most generate both at the utility level and residential level. Here are some. The levels in this study were super low and well within recommended levels

http://images.masscec.com/uploads/a...F_Levels_from_Solar_Photovoltaic_Projects.pdf
Here are their conclusions for both:
_The International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection has a recommended magnetic field 
level exposure limit of 833 milli-Gauss (mG) for the general public. At the utility scale sites, magnetic 
field levels along the fenced PV array boundary were in the very low range of 0.2 to 0.4 mG. Magnetic 
field levels at the locations 50 to 150 feet from the fenced array boundary were not elevated above 
background levels (<0.2 mG). There are significant magnetic fields at locations a few feet from these 
utility-scale inverters, in the range of 150 to 500 mG. At a distance of 150 feet from the inverters, these 
fields drop back to very low levels of 0.5 mG or less, and in many cases to background levels (<0.2 mG). 
The variation of magnetic field with distance generally shows the field strength is proportional to the 
inverse cube of the distance from equipment. 

At the residential site, indoor magnetic field levels in the rooms closest to the roof-mounted panels were in 
the low range of 0.2 to 1.4 mG. There are low-level magnetic fields at locations a few feet from the 
inverters, in the range of 6 to 10 mG. At a distance of no more than 9 feet from the inverters, these fields 
dropped back to the background level at this residential site of 0.2 mG. Due to the relatively high 
background level in the residential site basement where the inverters were housed, the relationship of magnetic field strength to distance from the inverters could not be discerned._

*Here is another fairly thorough study that concludes that while we should be concerned, the preponderance of the studies conclude little to no issues with exposure to EMF from PV systems and inverters. I liked their comparison to the EMF when using an electric can opener - had no idea I was risking my life opening beans!*

http://www.mass.gov/eea/docs/doer/renewables/solar/solar-pv-guide.pdf

_Electric and Magnetic Fields (EMF) 
Question: What, if any, health risks do the electric and magnetic fields (EMF) from solar panels and 
other components of solar PV arrays pose? 

Bottom Line: Electric and magnetic fields are a normal part of life in the modern world. PV arrays 
generate EMF in the same extremely low frequency (ELF) range as electrical appliances and wiring found 
in most homes and buildings. The average daily background exposure to magnetic fields is estimated to 
be around one mG (milligauss &#8211; the unit used to measure magnetic field strength), but can vary 
considerably depending on a person&#8217;s exposure to EMF from household electrical devices and wiring. 

The lowest exposure level that has been potentially associated with a health effect is three mG. 
Measurements at three commercial PV arrays in Massachusetts demonstrated that their contributions 
to off-site EMF exposures were low (less than 0.5 mG at the site boundary), which is consistent with the 
drop off of EMF strength based on distance from the source. 
More Information: Solar PV panels, inverters and other components that make up solar PV arrays 
produce extremely low frequency EMF when generating and transmitting electricity. The extremely low 
frequency EMF from PV arrays is the same as the EMF people are exposed to from household electrical 
appliances, wiring in buildings, and power transmission lines (all at the power frequency of 60 hertz). 
EMF produced by cell phones, radios and microwaves is at much higher frequencies (30,000 hertz and 
above). 
Electric fields are present when a device is connected to a power source, and are shielded or blocked by 
common materials, resulting in low potential for exposure. On the other hand, magnetic fields, which 
are only generated when a device is turned on, are not easily shielded and pass through most objects, 
resulting in greater potential for exposure. Both types of fields are strongest at the source and their 
strength decreases rapidly as the distance from the source increases. For example, the magnetic field 
from a vacuum cleaner six inches away from the motor is 300 mG and decreases to two mG three feet 
away. People are exposed to EMF during normal use of electricity and exposure varies greatly over time, 
depending on the distance to various household appliances and the length of time they are on. The daily 
average background level of magnetic fields for U.S. residents is one mG. 

EMF from PV Array._

I apologize it won't let me copy the rest of this part found at page 10 of the document.


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

Looks like I have to raise this statement once again: "*The current debate is centred on whether long-term low level exposure can evoke biological responses and influence people's well being.*" WHO

So, *long-term(!!!) low level exposure* is my main concern.

In addition: "*The e&#64256;ects of long-term exposure to low-intensity EMF are not at all well known &#8211; and it is exposure to this type 
of &#64257;elds that is growing*."
http://ec.europa.eu/health/archive/ph_determinants/environment/emf/brochure_en.pdf

Useful links: 
http://www.stralsakerhetsmyndighete...pport/Stralskydd/2013/SSM-Rapport-2013-19.pdf
http://www.globalresearch.ca/electr...encies-rf-what-are-the-health-impacts/5335801


Boris Romanov


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks Solar Geek.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

My first question on this, is this evanglising against what this forum is about?

Rather like an atheist in a Baptist/Catholic/other church? Then ask why, what is the purpose of this?

Then another question comes to mind, I see tiny solar panels and a battery outside on a porch with snow in the background, no proper installation of anything, and trying to prove a point. I do not see any capacitors to nulify and tune out he waves his little meter is showing.

As this is just appearing to be a boogey man hunt by someone that for some reason has a fear of solar, I don't know if he works for an conventional electric company or not.

Then, I come to thinking of, does this person have the experience of living with solar, or with high rf in near proximity of their living area? Do they have any practical knowledge of real living, or just hypothesizing as they are afraid of things that WHO does not approve of? And I get other thoughts of what is the background of the person evangelizing against this forum's purpose? I am always suspecting someone doing that.

katlupe - I think you're the only other one here with any real life RF, solar experience.

I have lived a few years with the solar hot water, with the collectors on the roof. Great, and the holding stone lined hot water "heater" was really great. Never ran out of hot water. 

Then we had the solar heat panels next to the water panels. There was a blower in the ceiling. We would have a sunny day and heat coming out so warm we would crack the patio doors during the dead of winter with snow on the ground.

And to make matters so much worse in the light of the scare of this thread, we had a wind generator and were running a Kilowatt or more RF out of the house via ham radio. 

So we had all those little RF's running around the house, and you know what? Only cheap meters or lights not properly shielded or even stereos without proper shielding and rf filters had problems, and even them, hardly ever. Anything properly shielded, (aka not cheap) had no problems and we had electronics all over the place.

So, I think this is a thread about a witch hunt in a forum that should be promoting the use of Alt Energy and not being afraid of it. Just use proper shielding and get something done.


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## sisterpine (May 9, 2004)

I don't know if this is a new or an old paranoia, however, I do know that our modified sine wave inverter caused our am radio, compact florescent lights to hum/buz no matter where we were in the house. I noticed the same effect at our neighbors when we played late night poker....the dining room lights emitted a soft hum. Lived with that for a dozen years and am still ticking....though I wonder if it caused brain damage in DXH?


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

That florescent light stuff happens even when no converter is around other than the on to make it work. I spent 7 years not using a light on a desk overhead due to that buzz. Everything you mentioned could be picking up that florescent's power inverter. 

What is really fun, is to have someone hamming, or live under high power lines (we call them triffids) and walk outside at night with a florescent blub. It will light. Or if the ground is wet you could get a minor electrical shock.

Of course, this is all from conventional AC. 

I am more concerned about living directly under triffids as there have been tests that show that it kills off the male sperm more and more females will be born to those around high ac lines. And it seems to be so, just from what I've seen in life, but cannot and will not make an issue of proving it.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

A sine wave inverter would probably have cured the buzz. All our issues like that went away when we got rid of the 'modified' sign wave inverter in our off-grid house.

Which brings me to suggest that people don't cheap out on inverters like we did. We 'saved' money by starting with a good but 'modified' sine wave inverter, thinking we would upgrade when we moved in full time. We finished the house and upgraded. So now we have an expensive backup inverter we never want to use.


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

I think a lot of this concern is like worrying about emissions from computers, cell phones, tv or microwave ovens. The emissions are indeed there but I, and most of society, have decided to accept the minimal risk most modern ordinary devices pose and simply use them properly. Everyone sitting in front of a computer reading this has done the same. 

The electricity produced by an off-grid system like ours is obviously fine with me. (By the way, I'm a licensed ham radio operator and have a wee bit of electrical knowledge.)

This is a rhetorical question I don't propose debating, but, isn't it odd that nobody worries about the wifi or bluetooth emissions that they embrace? What the heck, you can charge a cell phone battery with wifi nowadays.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

You know what.

The absolute obvious solution to any emp/rf being given off by an inverter. It is so darn simple.

Build a screen type faraday box around the converter, so the rf/emp source will not radiate.

Such a simple solution. I should have thought of and mentioned it before.

View attachment 24975


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Those cages are kind of interesting. I've been in ones the size of a living room but don't think I'd like to live in one. Putting your router, cell phone, inverter, and wifi tablet/computer inside a cage would indeed protect a person .... LOL


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

AngieM2 said:


> ...I have lived a few years with the solar hot water, with the collectors on the roof. Great, and the holding stone lined hot water "heater" was really great. Never ran out of hot water. ...


So, what? I also have three solar collectors, that I built myself:
http://www.beebehavior.com/solar_collector.php

But this thread is not about solar collectors... 

In fact, nobody presented the real proofs to deny Steven Magee's video (the last one). 
And nobody denied this statement: "The e&#64256;ects of long-term exposure to low-*intensity EMF are not at all well known* &#8211; and it is *exposure to this type of &#64257;elds that is growing*." http://ec.europa.eu/health/archive/ph_determinants/environment/emf/brochure_en.pdf

Boris Romanov


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

I remember on our modified racers that we had radio interference...caused by the magnetos...learned to shield them as Angie posted above...not much worse than heading into turn three, seeing smoke, and not being able to hear what your spotter is warning you of.

Matt


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Boris said:


> * not at all well known* â and it is *exposure to this type of &#64257;elds that is growing*."
> 
> Boris Romanov


Long term empirical studies? I believe it has been shown that ALL electricity has RF issues, and it appears that folks are less concerned with solar/alternative energy than with common AC current...which is also not a major concern.
If I really feared it that bad, I would not be on speaking terms with my welder or microwave.

Matt


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

You could say the same thing about the long term effects of ingesting small amounts of mashed potatoes. Can anyone deny my statement that 97.168143% of people with cancer have eaten mashed potatoes? Would anyone bother? 

But back to alternative energy....

Isn't it great that solar panels put out the most power when it's cold and the sunlight is bouncing off the snow? Almost makes up for the short winter days. Almost.


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

This is my last statement from the first post of this thread: "*In fact, there are simple solutions to reduce some negative health impacts of electromagnetic exposure*."
Nevertheless, in our real life people simply ignore simple precautionary measures.

Boris Romanov


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Why bother even watching any video's put together by persons so blindly paranoid.
I guess we can assume that this is the last of your posting here on HT . . . . because you too are paranoid about all things electrical, and that you will be tearing all the wires out of what ever you live in and reverting back to the good old Nonelectric days.
And never get within 25 feet of someone with a cell phone.
And for your computer all those little wall cubes . . . . .nasty nasty
I guess I better quit having my inverter in my lap . . nasty
(that would be a trick . . the inverter weights over 100 lbs.)
Oh yes my inverter cost a lot of money (over $2000) and has all the proper filtering circuits in it.
How do you think that they have made inverters so truck stop cheap . . .Hint . by leaving out components . . .and they (China) could care less about the inverter radiating some RF.

It is nice to see all the folks here who are enjoying oh so many electrical gadgets and not going off the deep end on EMF etc. etc. 
And most of us with years of experience with renewable energy get more than a bit annoyed with whom ever posts bad misleading information about this subject (Solar)
I guess you will be logging off now . . . .So long Boris . . .happy paranoia trails.


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

I suppose it can be documented that RF radiation at some level may have harmful effects, but the flip side of this is looking at the benefits that electrical power gives us.

Would my health be more seriously threatened if I fell down a flight of darkened stairsteps and broke my neck?

Would my health be more seriously threatened if I got violent food poisoning from food that has gone bad without refrigeration?

Would my health be more seriously threatened if I was constantly breathing kerosene combustion products from burning lanterns?

Maybe there's a tradeoff for every kind of technological application, but I think my life and my personal health are greatly improved by the presence of electricty, and I am personally very happy that I now have it at my own homestead.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Boris said:


> This is my last statement from the first post of this thread: "*In fact, there are simple solutions to reduce some negative health impacts of electromagnetic exposure*."
> Nevertheless, in our real life people simply ignore simple precautionary measures.
> 
> Boris Romanov


Guess I have to ask "What negative health" effects?

Power plant, hydro generation workers and lineman are exposed to the highest levels of RF radiation there is. and not just short term either. Yet no documented increase in any health problems among those groups.

WWW


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## DEKE01 (Jul 17, 2013)

wy_white_wolf said:


> Guess I have to ask "What negative health" effects?
> 
> Power plant, hydro generation workers and lineman are exposed to the highest levels of RF radiation there is. and not just short term either. Yet no documented increase in any health problems among those groups.
> 
> WWW


Wolfy, please don't clutter up this thread with nonsense like relevant facts. WHAT are you thinking? :hammer:




:thumb:


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## Gray Wolf (Jan 25, 2013)

Bring that am radio to a welding shop.....


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## Alaska (Jun 16, 2012)

My God Boris , do you drive a car? Do you buy food at a super market? What about that ---- computer in front of you? If you live in a city of any size you must be getting poisened at a phenomanal rate. Lighten up brother. People have been living withe solar panels and inverters for a long time now and I hve not heard of one case of cancer or death yet. Life is short enjoy it.


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## 12vman (Feb 17, 2004)

Some folks suffer from sticker shock but beyond that.. :indif:


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## Boris (Nov 18, 2010)

Forum members - let's be practical.

I still did not find any "clean" central inverter. 
And this is the recent Steven Magee's reply: "All inverters have fields around them, *I have yet to find one that does not*. This video is not manufacturer specific.&#65279;"

And if I will get any comments on this statement (an on his video) from the manufacturers of modern central Inverters, I will post such comments...

Just in case, in my area I can see more and more ground installations of solar panels with micro inverters. In same cases central inventors are also installed outside of the houses.

Hope, these useful basics can help to find a proper solution: 
- *Micro, String And Central Inverters* http://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-energy/inverters/micro-string-central-inverters.php
- *Central Inverter vs. Micro-Inverters: Which One is Better?*http://solarexpert.com/blog/central-inverter-vs-micro-inverters/
- *Micro-Inverters vs. Central Inverters:* http://energyinformative.org/are-solar-micro-inverters-better-than-central-inverters/

Boris Romanov 
P.S. 
No doubts. Not only Central inverters produce/generate electromagnetic fields.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Boris said:


> Forum members -* let's be practical*.


Yes, let's.
I'll keep my solar panels, inverters and my A/C hooked up. For me, that's practical.
I find little to worry about in what is being "discussed" in this thread.
Off to microwave a cup of tea.

Matt


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