# If IKE is any example...



## Elie May (Apr 24, 2008)

I sit here 20 miles north of Galveston in Hitchcock Texas. The eye passed my home-we survived that is all that matters. But as I look at the lines for gas, and food, I am in utter shock and disbelief. It scares me that this many people cannot take care of themselves for even a week. Good God I can only imagine when a REAL nationwide event occurs. 

I have yet to enter a store, nor buy gas. We have plenty of stockpiled goods at hand. 

The things I know now. 

We need more ammunition, guns, food, and gas. Oh yea Copehagen Enough to survive months. PERIOD.

There will be absolute pandimonium if a real catastrphic event occurs.

It is sad that the government has created a nation of dependents. Our fore fathers never were this way, nor did they intend to create a nation that is this way.

Yet the sheeple have accepted this "the government will take care of us"

When did it become the governments job to take care of peoples basic needs?

I'm mad, sad, disappointed in our society.

Most of all my heart breaks for the citizens in Galveston refusing to leave their homes-they are the spirit that hopefully will drive this nation again.

enough said


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## claytonpiano (Feb 3, 2005)

So true. It is also interesting to watch people after a disaster. After hurricane Fran destroyed our home and everyone else's on our side of the road, the neighbor across the road was out mowing his yard. He had no damage! There were 200 trees down in our yard and we couldn't even get to our storage and yet this man was mowing his yard. Others, who were in the same situation we were in, were out helping all of the neighbors. Odd the reaction of folks.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2008)

A week? The whining started less than a day after the winds died down. 

Happens that way after every storm. Every one, no matter what state it hits.

.....Alan.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Elie May - sure glad that you're safe. Sorry that the rest of the situation is what it is.

Angie


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

A.T. Hagan said:


> A week? The whining started less than a day after the winds died down.
> 
> Happens that way after every storm. Every one, no matter what state it hits.
> 
> .....Alan.


Alan, do you remember it always being like that? I can't seem to recall it being that way always, but I'm wondering if I just missed it.....


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Alright, disclaimer * I am not voting for either McCain or Obama*

That said... what do we expect, look at this election, we have two candidates bending over backwards to see who can "give us" the most.

Someone needs to step up to the plate and say... Hey, these yahoos are talking change... I am going to give you a real change.

1. We are going to cut the spending and raise taxes until we are out of debt. Those of you who are fairly wealthy and still get SS... sorry, you (we, all of us) spent it already. Maybe we will be able to get it straightened out in the future, but until we do, it's going to be safety net, like it was intended.
2. We are going to push for "one item, one bill". No more combined bills sent to the whitehouse... this is better than line item veto because it limits what congress can do frivolously.
3. Well... I won't go on... just noting that even people right here on this board who realize how whiny and needy everyone has become and how dependent on the government is, will still vote for socialism or socialism lite this election.

This is only the beginning. And just so you know, I am not against emergency programs and the like, but we are seeing the danger of thoughts of cradle to grave care right before our very eyes.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

_just to let all know, if this turns into one of those GC type political threads, everything that's in it from this post on will be taken out of this thread and either separate thread or poofed, depending on how GC it is._


Angie


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

We were actually hit pretty hard here by Ie. I can't believe the school closings in our area. Almost 400,000 people still without power. My sister has 8 kids. She is not a prepper & they had to drive to town on Sunday night because they didn't have anything int he hosue to drink!! No power & with a well they had no water. Power was out Sunday afternoon & ours just came back on today. A lot of people are still out. We did fairly well. Borrowed a generator. I need to save $$ to get our own, but we have a big family & we just pass them around. Also need to store more water. We were OK, but I can see where it would go fast. Also, more batteries.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Wendy - Ike has a lot to answer for. I'm glad you're getting pretty much back to normal (electricity and such).


Angie


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## midohiogal (Mar 25, 2008)

We got hit by the high winds here in Central Ohio. It is amazing to see how badly people are doing. We do have power back now, but we did see a few areas that we are not as prepared as we thought we were.
Alot of the schools are not back in yet, many people are without power, but my daughters soccer team will not postpone their game. I am at a loss for where peoples priorities are. We are playing a team that hasnt had power all week,they havent gone to school, but we are still going to play. Soccer is an outdoor sport so we can play anyway. :shrug::shrug:
We had people in our community have to stay at hotels, because they only use their garage door opener or the code box on the side of the garage to get in the house. They do not carry a house key, so they had no way to get into their house. I really did not realize how unprepared people are.


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## fordy (Sep 13, 2003)

..............The level of devistation of IKE , would destroy most all forms of preparation by those who "thought" they were prepared . After viewing the pics of the destruction I just don't see any way that normal folks could safe harbour their preps from a storm like IKE . 
..............I suppose IF you built your home and storage buildings out of reinforced concrete and 15 feet off the ground they and their contents might survive ; but this isn't affordable nor visually acceptable for most homesteaders or anyone else for that matter . , fordy


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

fordy said:


> ..............The level of devistation of IKE , would destroy most all forms of preparation by those who "thought" they were prepared . After viewing the pics of the destruction I just don't see any way that normal folks could safe harbour their preps from a storm like IKE .
> ..............I suppose IF you built your home and storage buildings out of reinforced concrete and 15 feet off the ground they and their contents might survive ; but this isn't affordable nor visually acceptable for most homesteaders or anyone else for that matter . , fordy


You are correct. There is NO preparing for a storm like Ika, Katrina or numerous other storms if you live right on a Coast within 2 blocks or so of the water. Even if your house is on stilts, the entire structure is likely to collapse due to water and debris hitting the pylons repeatedly for hours in one direction and then hours again in another.

Even a concrete house on stilts can be completely gutted by water if the tidal surge is high enough. I have a picture of one exactly like that.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2008)

midohiogal said:


> We had people in our community have to stay at hotels, because they only use their garage door opener or the code box on the side of the garage to get in the house. They do not carry a house key, so they had no way to get into their house. I really did not realize how unprepared people are.


You're kidding!


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2008)

JGex said:


> Alan, do you remember it always being like that? I can't seem to recall it being that way always, but I'm wondering if I just missed it.....


 Well, maybe when I was a boy it wasn't quite as bad, but then there wasn't any FEMA then nor had the culture of expectation that the government should rush right in to provide every little necessity quite evolved. But for the last fifteen years or so it has. Andrew was when it really began to become apparent to me.



JGex said:


> You are correct. There is NO preparing for a storm like Ika, Katrina or numerous other storms if you live right on a Coast within 2 blocks or so of the water. Even if your house is on stilts, the entire structure is likely to collapse due to water and debris hitting the pylons repeatedly for hours in one direction and then hours again in another.
> 
> Even a concrete house on stilts can be completely gutted by water if the tidal surge is high enough. I have a picture of one exactly like that.


 If you live within a few blocks of a Gulf coast beach or in a low lying area on the Gulf coast your only realistic preparation is to evecuate. Maybe if you have one of those monolithic dome homes, but even then if it was a major hurricane in the strong Cat. 3 or above I wouldn't stay in it. That's part of the equation when one makes the choice to live in such areas. Evacuate every time a hurricane comes along and accept that there may be nothing to go back to after the storm has passed. I might one day own a beach house or cabin, but there's no way I'd keep one as my primary residence.

But most folks don't live within a few blocks of the ocean and a great many of the folks standing in those lines with their hands out not even twenty four hours after the storm has passed did not lose their homes. Yet there they are yelling for food, water, and ice. Feh!

.....Alan.


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## vickie (Aug 8, 2002)

Ike's winds hit Indiana sunday. we lost siding, roof shingles, trees, and all electric. still no electric. we bbq most everything, hubby is smoking a full deer leg. It was defrosting so all the neighbors will eat deer tonight with greenbeans, corn, and pears. the frig will be empted tonight. The chickens, dog and pig will be very happy. We don't miss much except the warm shower. It is amazing how fast you can move in and out of a cold shower. Tonight i am heating water on bbq for a bath. They say at least 12 more days no electric. i am so glad my favorite hobby is canning. Have a great day. Vickie


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

midohiogal said:


> We had people in our community have to stay at hotels, because they only use their garage door opener or the code box on the side of the garage to get in the house. They do not carry a house key, so they had no way to get into their house. I really did not realize how unprepared people are.


While I have one, I have never used my house key - ever. Its been 2 years now, I wonder if it works. If I had to I would break a window before staying in a hotel, I have wood and nails in the garage to cover a broken window.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

AngieM2 said:


> _just to let all know, if this turns into one of those GC type political threads, everything that's in it from this post on will be taken out of this thread and either separate thread or poofed, depending on how GC it is._
> 
> 
> Angie


The point of my thread Angie is that just the way we have people clambering about in hurricane areas in lines waiting for what they can get, we are doing it on a national level. You can "poof" this if you want, but the point stands.

I mean we have pages and pages of threads about how much in disbelief we are at people who can't get into their homes because they don't carry keys, and people who don't have a can of beans in their cabinets...

But the truth is that it's the WHOLE nation. Look at the election. We all want a savior... we all want someone to "save us" and give us stuff.

The tangible differences between the two major parties lays only in a handful of social issues and those are becoming blurry too.

If you can't believe someone doesn't have a can of bean and can't carry a key to get into your house and you're voting for national health care, national safety nets (if you lose a 50K job and get a 30K job, we'll make up the difference), bail outs, etc. then I don't see how any of us can complain about people having a "give me a handout" attitude.

In other words, our politics/election is reflecting the nation on a larger scale.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

A.T. Hagan said:


> Well, maybe when I was a boy it wasn't quite as bad, but then there wasn't any FEMA then nor had the culture of expectation that the government should rush right in to provide every little necessity quite evolved. But for the last fifteen years or so it has. Andrew was when it really began to become apparent to me.


I was thinking Andrew was when I could pinpoint the start of it, too.



> If you live within a few blocks of a Gulf coast beach or in a low lying area on the Gulf coast your only realistic preparation is to evecuate. Maybe if you have one of those monolithic dome homes, but even then if it was a major hurricane in the strong Cat. 3 or above I wouldn't stay in it. That's part of the equation when one makes the choice to live in such areas. Evacuate every time a hurricane comes along and accept that there may be nothing to go back to after the storm has passed. I might one day own a beach house or cabin, but there's no way I'd keep one as my primary residence.
> 
> But most folks don't live within a few blocks of the ocean and a great many of the folks standing in those lines with their hands out not even twenty four hours after the storm has passed did not lose their homes. Yet there they are yelling for food, water, and ice. Feh!
> 
> .....Alan.


There are a LOT of people standing in line with hoands out that should not be there, but there are those with real need, too. The following is "in general" and not directed at you, Alan..... though your "choose to live in such areas" did prompt it:

In many of the Coastal areas, people (especially the poorer communities) didn't "choose" to live there. They were born there. Their entire family is there and has been for many generations. They neither own property, nor have savings accounts, so they aren't in a position to sell out and move. They aren't even in a position to evacuate financially.

I'm all for relocating some of these people further inland, but they aren't going to do it until there is nothing there for them to go back to. Where they live is all they know. It's their home.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but we've got to have some sort of change in mindset in this country. More people need to be prepared to survive a few days without power no matter where they live. Then if we have to help the very poorest in our communities, it would not be such an overwhelming task.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

seedspreader said:


> 1. We are going to cut the spending and raise taxes until we are out of debt. Those of you who are fairly wealthy and still get SS... sorry, you (we, all of us) spent it already. Maybe we will be able to get it straightened out in the future, but until we do, it's going to be safety net, like it was intended.
> 2. We are going to push for "one item, one bill". No more combined bills sent to the whitehouse... this is better than line item veto because it limits what congress can do frivolously.



I agree. Both parties should be willing to do this. They should also be required to provide a balanced budget instead of borrowing every year.

*...yet this man was mowing his yard *

Sometimes people cope with disaster by clinging to routines. Steadies them, somehow. This may have been his way of handling it.

So are the kids enjoying their time off, or do they realize tihey'll have to make up the time?

Has anyone had their storage destroyed when their houses went? I sure hope not.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Madame said:


> Has anyone had their storage destroyed when their houses went? I sure hope not.


Some people have lost everything they owned.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

_I guess I wasn't too clear. the type of post you're doing seedspreader, I have no problem.
I'm just trying to make sure that the GC attitude and arguing does not migrate._



Personally, I agree that some spending needs to be re-looked at and changed, and people do need to start having pride in what they can do and not always expect to be 'taken care of'.

Angie


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

AngieM2 said:


> _I guess I wasn't too clear. the type of post you're doing seedspreader, I have no problem.
> I'm just trying to make sure that the GC attitude and arguing does not migrate._
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I also agree some things need to be carefully looked at and changed... I believe there really needs to be a lot more effort put into preparedness teaching, for example.

Really, there was one thing about discussing disasters that truly yoinked me personally has been the prevailing attitude these last couple of years from many people that NOLA was unique in how people reacted and acted. It brings me no pleasure that with each disaster we are seeing the same behavior in some degrees happening after other disasters in all different locations.

IMO, FEMA is feeding it by providing too much assistance in some areas and not enough in others. And that means that people who are in areas where their homes and lives are for the most part intact should not be standing in lines looking for MREs or other food handouts. Ice maybe, water maybe, but by George, they should have enough cans of tuna and peanut butter in the house to rough it for a week or so. 

And people are def part of the problem because one sees another getting something for free, they think they need it, too. I saw it on the Coast after Katrina. People who weren't really bad off were still hopping from one supply pod to the next just to see what they could gather. Granted, I hope it was a minority, but there is a false sense of radical self-entitlement in this country that we need to grow out of as a species. 

People who have lost everything DO need help, though. Especially those folks who were barely getting by in the first place. I'm not saying that we have to totally rebuild their lives for them, but we can't leave them living under bridges, either.

Again, there are no easy answers on this. Our society is going to have to find a workable solution that we can all live with at some point or ew're going to have bigger problems down the road. IMO, of course.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

Seeing those images on the telly of a *person* getting a 12 pack (I think) of Bottled water and a bag of ice leaves me shaking my head in disbelief. . . . . . . . . . . .I know I live in northern Michigan, . .but what, pray tell, is the ice good for when 29 minutes later it has melted . . .??

With all the advance warning for 'Ike' these "peoples" (would rather use other wording) couldn't\didn't put up 5 gallons or so of drinking water . . .???

And this evening I think I heard one of those '*******' say that she was gonna bath with the bottled water !!!

time for Forest Gump's great line "Stupid is as stupid does"


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Jim-mi, it's my understanding that the ice will go either into a cooler with food and can last a day or a couple of days depending on the cooler and how much the lid is flapped. Or it could go into the freezer compartment of an electric frig/freezer to help keep some foods cool enough to last that day or more.

Not the best, but it does the same as the ice one buys for when they go camping.

Angie


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Jim-mi said:


> Seeing those images on the telly of a *person* getting a 12 pack (I think) of Bottled water and a bag of ice leaves me shaking my head in disbelief. . . . . . . . . . . .I know I live in northern Michigan, . .but what, pray tell, is the ice good for when 29 minutes later it has melted . . .??
> 
> With all the advance warning for 'Ike' these "peoples" (would rather use other wording) couldn't\didn't put up 5 gallons or so of drinking water . . .???
> 
> ...


I hope you never have to do debris removal in 100 degree temps with humidity at 90% while the power is off and the AC isn't working. Five gallons for a family of 4 or 5 would last one day.

Y'all may think we Southerners aren't so bright, but we do know what an ice chest is and most of us own several or at least one. We can keep ice from melting long enough to cool beverages. It sure is nice to get a cold water while you're working out in the heat all day. We went through over a case a day of water after Katrina. We hauled in several cases when we went back in, but those were gone in a few days and the stores still were not open, so yeah, we took the free cases offered to us to tide us over until the stores got back into operation.

Oh, and after you've been out in the heat for 3-5 days, yeah, bottled water just might become a shower. I can bathe completely AND wash my hair with under one gallon in a solar shower bag. Best bath you'll ever know after working in mud clearing debris for a few days. Especially if you've been working in possibly contaminated water.


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

I wanted to expand on my last post last night, but couldn't seem to get hte internet gods to let me log back in..... so....


First, I'm all for cutting back on waste expenses during a disaster. Water is not a luxury; it's a necessity.

Many families and folks DO have water stocked up before a storm, but the national standard of preparedness as per FEMA calls for having supplies for "at least 3 days." Some people go beyond that, but I'm afraid many people aren't being as responsible for their own welfare as they should during a disaster.

We were always taught to fill the bathtubs, and all of the large cooking pots with water before a hurricane. The water from the tub was used for spit baths and flushing the toilet. If your power is out for a month, tho, that's going to run out.

That can be handled one of a couple of ways:

1) Let them figure it out on their own

2) Take in basic necessities as temporary relief

I'm going to explain why the Govt., whether State or Federal, is going to choose #2. Jim-mi, this is specifically for you, so I hope you read this.

When the power is out and all available emergency services are concentrating their efforts on the hardest hit areas, it leaves other areas of the state with less manpower, both at hospitals and the emergency services.

People, when working to remove debris, will inevitably injure themselves and put a bigger strain on already strained medical resources.

If you let people do #1 (Let them figure it out on their own), there will be people who will not keep themselves hydrated, and by day 5-10 of a disaster where the power is still off, they will start needing medical attention for dehydration, heat stroke, and various other issues resulting from dehydration.

FEMA knows this and believe me, supplying water to the masses is far more efficient than dealing with calls for ambulances that are not available or trying to find bed space in a hospital that's short on beds AND personnel.

It's cheaper to let people remain in their homes after a storm and provide a few supplies than it is to evacuate them and pay for hotel rooms. And I don't care who you are, or how prepared you tried to be, if your power is out for 3-4 weeks, I'm betting you didn't store enough water.

Generally when the power returns and a grocery store or 2 reopens, the distribution centers are shut down in those areas and people go back to purchasing their water and supplies.

I know some of this is harder to grasp if you've never dealt with a disaster of this proportion before, but SOME of the things being done are being done for very good reasons.


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

JGex said:


> Some people have lost everything they owned.


Well, now, that's what I thought. But I've seen a lot of messages saying that all these folks _*should*_ have this, that, and the other thing stored away so they wouldn't need government help. I've been trying to figure out how they were supposed to do that...assumption seems to be that people need stuff because they were ill-prepared, and I wondered if folks in Texas stored stuff away from the house or some such thing.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2008)

If the storm knocks down your house then blows your preps away I can certainly see why the victims would be standing in line as soon as the winds died down enough for them to safely do so.

But the vast majority of the folks standing in those lines suffered no such devastating losses. This is seen in every hurricane to have hit the United States for at least the last twenty years.

It's not like these things are earthquakes that hit with no warning. You have to be blind and deaf NOT to know there is a hurricane heading your way if you live in an area where they are a danger. How hard is it to fill the cooking pots with water if you really have no other suitable containers? If a person usually only has one or two days worth of food in their home as a matter of course I could understand why they'd need to go stand in the relief line the day after the storm, but again that does not describe most of the folks who actually do go stand in those lines. 

It's well and good to say there should be more preparedness education and there should be. But I can tell you for a fact that you cannot get it to penetrate most people's attention unless they've suffered in the not too distant past. I've manned tables with hurricane preparedness information, spoken with people about it, tried to convince people to prep and most of the time it is time wasted on my part. It does not penetrate. 

But let a storm hit them and they start screaming for help! It's FEMA this, FEMA that, and FEMA the other thing but if the storm misses them and all those supplies aren't needed right away so that they start to spoil or major money has to be spent to store them it's moan and complain time about all the money that was wasted.

SELF-RELIANCE is where it is at. Unless their house was blown down or washed away there should be NO ONE who was capable of living independently as an adult who needs anything from the government in the way of food, water, or ice for at least the first three days after a storm has passed. The frail, seriously ill, elderly, and all other such folk who are not able to care for themselves we should certainly be looking out for as that is our duty. Stranded travellers should be looked after. Folks who suffered serious losses in the storm we should look after. But I can tell you for having watched hurricane aftermaths all of my life that the vast majority of people who end up in those lines - many having driven themselve in their cars to reach them - do not fall into any of those categories. These are all people who were perfectly able to fill a pot of water, locate their can opener, fill their refrigerators and freezers full of bags or bottles of water to freeze in advance of the storm so that they wouldn't lose their refrigerables in the first three days but they did little to none of those things. But they can by gosh get in that line to get their hand outs and scream when they don't get them.

If you live on the Gulf Coast or in a Southeastern Atlantic state you have to actively ignore the warnings to get ready for hurricane season to not know you should be doing so. It's on the television, it's in the newspapers, the information is given out in the grocery stores. The season comes around every year at the same time. We see big storms spinning around hitting one part of the country or another. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you live in a coastal state that maybe you'd better prepare too. It doesn't take a lot of money to lay in basic storm preps so that anyone who isn't regularly eating in a soup kitchen can do so. Generators are nice but they are not vital for any one who isn't medically dependent on electrical power. And if you are have you registered with your local emergency management agency so that they can incorporate your needs into their planning? They have to know you exist before they can do anything to help you. Yelling about it AFTER the storm has passed makes you a part of the problem where you could have been a part of the solution.

It's the same thing every year. 

.....Alan.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Good post Alan.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Folks on the coast have many days notice that a storm is coming, no reason not to be prepared. A person living there should have some sort of emergency storage that can be easily transported to their car in case they have to leave the area. It's hurricane season. 
It wouldn't help the folks who lost their house that lost alot of belongings, but it would give them the ability to not have to depend on the government for help. 
Personally I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I was so helpless that I needed to rely on FEMA for survival. I would want to be taking care of myself, and back at work fixing up my home as soon as possible. 
I'm also amazed that some of the people who weathered out the storm were told to leave so authorities could work on the place. Wouldn't they welcome more help from the people who live there? What else are they going to do? they have no place to go?


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## wildwanderer (Mar 2, 2004)

I want to just add a few thoughts:

We live well away from the coast, actually where we live was chosen because of its possible lack of natural disasters. When I saw the TV at work and the path of this storm was projected our way I took that into consideration we would only get the storm after it had slowed down a lot but we were right in the path it would take as it slowed down. Knowing I would be at work the time we would get hit by this I had to leave home prep with my soon to be husband (who bless his heart has never considered the world might be ending or the apocalypse is hiding in the bathroom until he met and fell in love with me) so planning had to be done with his ability in mind. I work in emergency services so I know that if needed they can keep men for as long as they deem necessary, so I wanted to make certain he could do what needed to be done until I could get home in worse case scenario. I sent him out for bottled water (some left in the truck in case he had to flee), we have the canned goods and means to cook without power as well as noncooking needed food. I had him fill up the bathtub after his morning shower and explained when he looked at me like I was crazy that this would be hygiene water he understood. We also made certain to park his car away from the local tree hazards and that he had basic stuff to stay warm, dry and understood the bug out bag (which I have packed just in case). I love my fiance and he took to this learning quite well when we had a problem bearing down on us, but he would have listened half hearted before this I believe because lack of threat allows us complacency. I explained he should move any food he wanted to the frig and leave the freezer closed I froze a couple extra two liters of water to help just in case we lost power - cold water when the freezer finally has to be emptied and before that it serves to help keep everything cold. 

The storm hit and other then a near miss at work with our personal vehicles and a tree it all went ok, water rose knew two ways out of town to miss river crossings and get home so we were fine. My partner followed me out the back way of town and he was safely home to his wife and baby (who I made him wake up when the storm hit because windows were blowing in and his wife sleeps next to one). I got home, we didn't have much problem, but we were good. If things had been bad we would have pulled out to my parents place. 

But we have a system in place, and he learned from the experience so now next time he will be more ready, we have prepared even if everything were lost we have the gear to walk to the parents if the cars are gone. We have the practical skills and accumulated knowledge even if we only have the clothes on our backs to make it in most situations. 

Lastly if I saw FEMA headed my way I would head the other, however I understand their system if they keep a person in a line all day begging for ice and water that person can't be vandalizing the neigbors or stealing stuff, they can keep people neatly counted for thier report. Hell they can run your biometric data who knows what else maybe vaccinate you against some tropical disease that the hurrican blew in, or implant a chip or turn you into a zombie (a little paranoia is healthy)....

Learn how to survive where you are and where you might be because some day you will have to whether they warn you or not. This seems so logical to me how can it not to those people who have been hit by disaster after disaster. 

Take care - I hope you all stay safe


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## wildwanderer (Mar 2, 2004)

I have a question (after looking through those pictures on the other thread )- all the fires that happened does anyone know what likely caused them? 
Thanks


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

It seems to me that people are being coddled too much. Instead of being pampered, someone needs to have the guts to get on TV and be a drill sergeant dressing the entire population down for their behavior. Emphasize the need for personal responsibility; condemn those with a 'welfare mentality' (which isn't always the folks on welfare -- working people will be standing there after a disaster with their hands out saying 'gimme, gimme', too). Give a brief history lesson describing the self-sufficiency and independence of our ancestors, and cry 'shame' for those who are too lazy to prepare. 

Kathleen


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

wildwanderer said:


> I have a question (after looking through those pictures on the other thread )- all the fires that happened does anyone know what likely caused them?
> Thanks



Just a guess, but could have been electrical shorts as the water started coming into buildings. Probably would have helped if everyone had shut the power off at the main breaker before they evacuated.

Kathleen


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## p1gg1e (Aug 20, 2008)

We went through Ike here also though he was less powerful he really sent us through the ringer! 

bottled water , ice, generators ,fuel (we had lines and shortages) were the first to go.

I'm going to stock more bottled water and look into an emergency food/water supply for the car .

Any suggestions for a small kit I could tuck under the seat that would be ok in real hot /cold extremes? 

Id rather charity take care of people then Government. They do a better job anyway, more likely to teach people to be independent....though I don't use hand outs.


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

Here in Ohio, I was without power for 5 days. All my preps worked out great !! I used the Uptake gas cooker stove (like the enclosed single burner type you see in the Emerg. Essentials book) and it cooked and made coffee like a dream. I also had my coleman propane gas stove and plenty of cartridges on hand. I ran on the generator (5500 watt) all day and evening keeping the refrigerator and freezer cold. I also hooked up the satellite box and TV to the generator so I could see what was going on in the world .... at least in Ohio anyway. A new spark plug and proper storage so it was clean and ready made the generator run strong and long without a hiccup.

The 3 different battery powered lanterns worked great, plenty of light and I still have lots of batteries if needed. I had at least 24 of each size battery on hand. The candles I had stored did fine and I still have lots left for future issues. You would see people on the news complaining they didn't have enough batteries, or light or water because the pumping station was down.
I have 24 2 liter bottles of drinking water stored in recycled 2 liter pop bottles and an additional 50 gallons of rain water in rain barrels. Fortunately, my water stayed on but I was ready for that event also. My neighbor gave up after two days. She was mad about everything (inconvenienced). I worked on their generator several times to get it running, but in the end they just gave up. What they did was fought against this hurricaine outage the whole time instead of going with the flow and doing things to make the outage easier to live with. I never really felt inconvenienced, and I would laugh at myself when I would walk into a dark room and flip on the light switch and nothing happened. 

The only real issue was the wind did lots of roof damage to my garage. The insurance company will fix it, and that is already in the works so no big deal.
I only had to go for gasoline on the last day as my cans of gas were used up after 4 days. I never needed to go out to eat, or needed to go for supplies as I had more than enough. My prepping plans and strategies worked perfectly, and I would give myself an A minus for a grade. The minus is because I ran out of generator gas. It was important to have everything at your fingertips as the stores were all closed and nothing could be bought anyway. I didn't want for anything, and the last 5 days were smooth sailing.
2 million other people in Ohio couldn't say the same thing. 

I talked to a friend in inner Columbus tonight, and he said people during this in the inner city were angry, mean and agitated because their way of life had been interrupted. He also said people everywhere in inner city Columbus are on the verge of looting and robbing because still in Columbus many stores and gas stations are still closed. Supplies for inner city people have long run out and run dry. The Police are working overtime and non-stop to combat the problems happening as I type. Large areas of columbus won't have power restored until Saturday, 9/20. Man 'o man it is great to live rural without those kind of fears .......
Ohio Rusty ><>


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Rusty - thank you so much for your report of issues.

And the way you handled things. I really think your frame of mind was a huge plus over the physical things that made it work for you and your family.
Congratulations - can I say, I'm proud of you.

Angie


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## Kmac15 (May 19, 2007)

You should be proud of yourself and what you have managed to do.
Your pre planning was as important as your attitude is now.

Great work.


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## tx_bhp (Jun 23, 2008)

We live just west of Alvin, TX. We lost power and cranked up the generator. I drove to Dallas, on Monday, and met my brother coming down from north Oklahoma, he brought 2 more generators and 35 gal of gas. That got 2 more family members wired up. Would not dream of trying to go to store. Lost part of the flock of chickens and 2 coops. The barn is a tear down and rebuild - better. Minor damage to house. Plenty of home canned food to live on. The whiners started as soon as the wind died down. Then came the POD (Points of Distribution) people. All begging for food and wondering why it was not delivered to their door.


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## Jim-mi (May 15, 2002)

wildwanderer, rusty, Alan, etal good posts.
Sure is nice to read that some *prepared* folks made it just fine in part because they 'thought ahead'. . . . . . .and didn't need to be seen by the tv camera begging................
But yes I will have to admit that thats the stuff the tv likes to show . . .it does *sell papers*.
I've been there, done that, when I worked on news crews as a free lance soundman for the tv stations.
(we had just come down off the pile of rubble when the place blew up again) . . .been there.

Guess I should pipe in that the water thing kinda bugs me.
My own case is that I built a "water house" right next to the house. Only a quarter of it is above ground. It contains a 350 gallon water tank that I could tap from should my batterys-inverter electric system fail for what ever reason. It also would be my shelter should a tornado get too close for comfort.

rant off


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Like Rusty, we made out fine. Our power was out only 2 days, but we were prepared. I do need to stock up on batteries again. Also, you can NEVER have too much water stored. You go through it much faster than you would think. Man, people were/are stealing generators & going nuts. We borrowed a generator from my BIL & it went between several houses. We all took turns. No screaming or fighting over it. Once my other BIL got power he sent his generator home with us to make things easier. It didn't bother me at all not to have lights, TV, computer, etc. What I was worried about was the freezer full of food. I have lots canned, but didn't want to lose what was in the freezer. We were out of power for 4 days duiring an ice storm a couple of years ago, but it was cold enough I didn't have to worry about the freezer then. 

I want go eventually get a generator of our own, a gas stove or at least a camp stove or something I could can my food on if I couldn't keep the freezer going. I cooked on the charcoal grill & even heated water on it. I also want to get a hand pump for the well. We can dip it out with buckets, but I want to make things a little easier.

I can't believe the way people cry just being without power for 1 day. It is just amazing to watch people turn into a bunch of cry babies when they can't take a shower or watch TV. It really is pitiful the state this country is in. A bunch of coddled cry babies.


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## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

I was talking to my S/O last evening, and she was saying "Yanno, in spite of all the bad news of late, I feel really at peace, because I do have skills, can provide for our needs and have things I can barter". 
I replied "Yeah, I'm not so concerned about you or I being able to do for ourselves, even long term, but when I look around and see so many who haven't a clue, who expect to be taken care of - THAT gives me pause. The odds are real good that when someone comes to the door hungry, they aren't going to be satisfied with a packet of seeds, or with a few fertile chicken eggs to hatch that they can eat for years - they'll want the chicken breaded and cooked, with green beans, mashed potatoes and carrot cake, on a microwavable TV dinner tray. Hot. Right Now."

... and when you don't have a liter of Diet soda to slam with that, they may just burn the place.

And with a mentality like that, it's no wonder the TV crews don't lack for examples of "the hardship caused by Ike". "I like Ike" (most of you are too young to remember that), because this Ike is helping some folks sort out the ones they might be able to work with when the MHTV, and the ones to avoid like the plague. "I see your true colors, shining through". And with so many expecting 'everything they deserve', the larger disasters on the horizon say this isn't likely to bode well, even for those who prep.


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## Sabre3of4 (May 13, 2008)

O,K, maybe this is pollyanna-ish but maybe some of those people were there doing what has been advocated on this board so many times? 
Looking ragged and taking the Dole to cover what they actually had at home? Staying under the looters radar?:shrug:
I know if this happens in our area, that is exactly the plan around here. Some neighbor in true need will answer a knock to find extras on the doorstep that night.

Sabrina


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

to the OP... You can NEVER have too much ammunition...

One of the problems I see is that we ARE helping the people that live in areas unsuitable for permanent habitation. I love the Galveston area, but building anywhere on barrier islands is not wise... Building anywhere where storm surges can flatten your everything is not wise...

If insurers and the government were to stop bailing out people who choose to rebuild, a lot of it would cease. If a person wants to build a home, knowing that it had a good chance of being wiped out every five years or so, go for it. But they'll have to pay for it each and every time.

Anyone building in a 100 year flood zone takes a risk. Anyone building on the coast takes a risk. If individuals wish to take on the risks, more power to them. But, as a country, we need to decide, whether we want to subsidize those people.

In our local county, there's only one residence that gets flooded regularly, about every ten years. Most folks build high... this place is built low, next to a large bayou. The pity for those folks ended back in the sixties, after a couple of huge floods... this was pre-FEMA or other govt. handouts... the community pitched in and rebuilt their place... next flood came, and little help arrived... it's flooded time and again (right off a major highway {US 59}) and now no one bothers anymore. AND, since this is one of the few places that'd ever flood, FEMA wouldn't bother with our county, unless there was massive wind damage.

--------------
We made out fine here... had to spend some extra cash, but we could have survived on prepped goods... Stuff I bought, last minute, was just extra insurance....... haven't really used any of the last minute stuff.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

JGex said:


> (snip)_In many of the Coastal areas, people (especially the poorer communities) didn't "choose" to live there. They were born there. Their entire family is there and has been for many generations. They neither own property, nor have savings accounts, so they aren't in a position to sell out and move. They aren't even in a position to evacuate financially._(snip)


They also _choose_ not to get an education, not to get a job, to start a drug habit . . . . Some people need a hand up. Some, no matter _what_ you give them, all you are giving them is a handout.



texican said:


> (snip)If insurers and the government were to stop bailing out people who choose to rebuild, a lot of it would cease. If a person wants to build a home, knowing that it had a good chance of being wiped out every five years or so, go for it. But they'll have to pay for it each and every time.
> 
> Anyone building in a 100 year flood zone takes a risk. Anyone building on the coast takes a risk. If individuals wish to take on the risks, more power to them. But, as a country, we need to decide, whether we want to subsidize those people.(snip)


Agreed!


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## Elie May (Apr 24, 2008)

I think what is really scary is that now, still over 1 week later Galveston is not allowing it's citizens to return. This is probably the #1 reason why I will never leave my home during a storm. Most of these people just want to see what's left and make plans for their lives. But with Lyda Ann Thomas at the helm, she is all too important to be bothered with her citizens. 

I lived in Galveston for over 10 years-It breaks my heart to see that government is ALLOWED to keep people from their homes. 

It makes no sense to me. Most of these homes are not liveable, at least let them drive there, pick up some of what might be left, and take pictures for their insurance.

Why do we tolerate a government that allows this to happen?


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## Elie May (Apr 24, 2008)

nothing...


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Narshalla said:


> They also _choose_ not to get an education, not to get a job, to start a drug habit . . . . Some people need a hand up. Some, no matter _what_ you give them, all you are giving them is a handout.


Let me set this straight: when I talk about "poor people," I am NOT talking about crackheads or thugs or people who could but don't have jobs. They are a miniscule part of society.

The people I am referring to are the elderly on fixed incomes, the ones who DO have job(s) and are barely scraping by, the blue collar folks on the lower end of the wage spectrum and any of a number of other salt-of-the-Earth folk who have worked their entire lives, paid their taxes and raised their families just like everyone else. And there are a bunch of people who fall in this category - school teachers, security guards, fishermen, farmers, etc, etc. 

I have both friends and relatives who are good as the day is long, and who have worked all their lives and barely have 2 dimes to rub together outside of taking care of their essential needs, but they take care of themselves. They aren't on welfare and they would give you the shirt off their backs if you needed it. 

There are a bunch of you folks who can't seem to get past that one miniscule bad element that is often what the media focuses on instead of realizing that there is a far larger group of the other people who could use just a little compassion or help when things like natural disasters happen. 

:soap:


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## JGex (Dec 27, 2005)

Elie May said:


> I think what is really scary is that now, still over 1 week later Galveston is not allowing it's citizens to return. This is probably the #1 reason why I will never leave my home during a storm. Most of these people just want to see what's left and make plans for their lives. But with Lyda Ann Thomas at the helm, she is all too important to be bothered with her citizens.
> 
> I lived in Galveston for over 10 years-It breaks my heart to see that government is ALLOWED to keep people from their homes.
> 
> ...


You are making some very valid points here.

THIS is why people choose to stay instead of evacuating. People are angry because they have lost everything and anything they might be able to salvage now will have been sitting for 2 weeks in the sun and elements further deteriorating.

The grocery store is open on the island, so make sure people have enough water to drink and supplies and let them back in. Apparently the sewer service is at least 50% back on, so let those folk back in.


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## ldc (Oct 11, 2006)

Well, I've written elsewhere about BR's experience with Gustav, which was severe for our area and so far (per capita) more expensive than Katrina. Did people help neighbors? Sure. We have an estimated one million trees down, which means a lot fell on houses, garages and cars, trucks. A few fell on people. Many just got their power back on, on Friday, which made it 19 days. I couldn't believe the amount of fussing from the folks whose houses and vehichles were perfect, but were just missing electric. These were not people w health needs such as oxygen; just regular healthy people. Then the people with destroyed owner-owned housing and those who rent who were trying to figure out what to do next. FEMA ran out of supples after 2 days, and got more later. Where I work, many were trying to get handouts, in general. The lines when FEMA did have supplies were miles long, either wrapped around the Siegen mall or a mile long down Nicholson Dr. Many FEMA stations were miles (like 25) out of town, where inner city people without cars could never get to, and it was inner city dwellers who had a lot of need. They don't have good appliances nor the means to put supplies up for later. The suburban people mostly all have generators, so while they complained about how expensive gas was per day to feed them (approx. $45), they were pretty well situated. Areas outside of town still have a 10 minute boil order for water, as many sewers have contaminated nearby drinking water. On day 19, the Army Corps of Engineers patched my roof w plywood, which was something I couldn't handle myself. I started out w this trying to add to, or respond to, comments in other posters' quotes; sorry if I rambled! ldc


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## Madame (Jan 1, 2003)

JGex said:


> Let me set this straight: when I talk about "poor people," I am NOT talking about crackheads or thugs or people who could but don't have jobs. They are a miniscule part of society.
> 
> The people I am referring to are the elderly on fixed incomes, the ones who DO have job(s) and are barely scraping by, the blue collar folks on the lower end of the wage spectrum and any of a number of other salt-of-the-Earth folk who have worked their entire lives, paid their taxes and raised their families just like everyone else. And there are a bunch of people who fall in this category - school teachers, security guards, fishermen, farmers, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


Thanks, JGex. You said what I thought, but far more eloquently.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2008)

Madame said:


> Thanks, JGex. You said what I thought, but far more eloquently.


Ditto.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Elie May said:


> I think what is really scary is that now, still over 1 week later Galveston is not allowing it's citizens to return. This is probably the #1 reason why I will never leave my home during a storm. Most of these people just want to see what's left and make plans for their lives. But with Lyda Ann Thomas at the helm, she is all too important to be bothered with her citizens.
> 
> I lived in Galveston for over 10 years-It breaks my heart to see that government is ALLOWED to keep people from their homes.
> 
> ...


From what I understand, there's nothing to come back to... the Gulf is reclaiming the island.

If you had stayed on Galveston Island, you'd probably always 'be' on Galveston Island.

Personally, I have no problems with people wanting to stay at home when a hurricane hits... But, if I did choose to live in Galveston, the foreknowledge of the 1902 disaster would have made me leave. Things are bad enough when you're on high ground, and live in hurricane proof homes... when you're living up on stilts, on a sand bar, in the ocean.........

As far as the govt.... the govt is the people.... anyone can go to Galveston if they really really want to... but you'd have to sneak in, and be subject to bad things happening..... and, unless your a survivalist and can take care of yourself (how many survivalists are there in Galveston???), there'll be less than zero services that city folks take for granted...


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## Wanderer0101 (Jul 18, 2007)

I would like to say that my hat is off to some of the Companies that really did everything they could to make supplies available to people. HEB deserves special mention and Kroger wasn't too bad. It looked to me like HEB was selling some items like bottled water at near cost. They also had the lowes gas prices I saw.


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## Zipporah (Jul 30, 2006)

> but what, pray tell, is the ice good for when 29 minutes later it has melted . . .??


It last longer than that in a ice chest and some people need it for medications that have to be kept cool. Heck if it melts there's bath water or what ever it's need for.


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## roostercogburn (Mar 12, 2007)

Our son-in-law's parents are in the Angelina forest area. They aren't usually effected by hurricanes, so the extended family always gathers there from Houston, Beaumont, Galveston, Orange, Lake Charles, New Orleans and Port Arthur. They had 30 people at their place, including our daughter and grandkids, who were visiting when they heard Ike was headed their way. Luckily, no one was injured or killed during the storm at their place. However, the 2nd floor of their house is now roofless in areas. After Ike hit, they were told it would be at least 6 weeks before they have power again. They have been using the generator and some solar, but are set up to be able to live off grid when necessary. They always keep food, water and supplies on hand, but like most people prepared for the worst, not real talkative about the situation. Keljonma hasn't talked to them yet this week, but aside from the roof repairs, all seemed to be doing well, considering.

Our daughter, sil and the grands live in Houston County. They just purchased their place, and hadn't even moved in yet. They are being told power should be on this week-end. They lost a couple fruit or nut trees in the back of their property, but luckily no damage to house or outbuildings.

We haven't heard from keljonma's cousin, who lives in Port Arthur, so not sure how they are doing. They have family in Tennessee, so they may have gone there.

Here in NE Ohio we got the 65 to 70 mph winds and heavy rain, but no real damage. Although I heard that some in our area were without power until this past Monday.

It makes us feel really blessed and we say prayers for those who were hit hardest.

edited for spelling


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