# Measles Detected in California School



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/measle...umber-unvaccinated-children/story?id=38028790



> Measles Detected in California School With *High Number of Unvaccinated Children*
> 
> By Gillian Mohney
> 
> ...





> Measles is one of the most infectious viruses on the planet. Unprotected people exposed to the virus have a 90 percent chance of being infected. The virus is airborne and an unprotected person can be infected if they simply enter the same room an infected person was in hours earlier.
> 
> Symptoms of measles include diarrhea, ear infection and pneumonia. Rare severe complications occur more often among children under five, those with compromised immune systems, and adults over the age of 20 are at higher risk for severe complications such as encephalitis or death.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

Why don't they say what strain of the virus it is? Maybe they don't want us to know where it really came from.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Yup - just like Tuberculosis - eradicated in the US until the mass influx of illegal aliens


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

People that don't understand the disease process and vaccines are responsible for the come back of these diseases. Ridiculous.

Measles is very highly contagious and because of the (probable) irresponsibility of anti vax parents the school will be shut down, kids will be sick, and education will be disrupted.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association â Pediatrics last year found that 88 percent of measles cases in the country âwere internationally imported or epidemiologically or virologically linked to importation.â

There were a few cases not linked to any kind of importation over a period from 2001 to 2011, but they did not seem to be endemic, researchers said. The study ultimately found that while endemic measles was still eliminated, international importation remained a serious risk.


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> http://abcnews.go.com/Health/measle...umber-unvaccinated-children/story?id=38028790


Just goes to show a person just how Important it is to be Vaccinated~! Plain and Simple with no need to argue about things like this that come right out and stare a person right in the face~!


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm sure there will be those who claim vaccination doesn't work, and that it's highly toxic and ineffective.


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

I was wondering if anyone on this board lives in the area where this school is. Maybe they can shed light on this ... How come that majority of children in this school is unvaccinated since CA does not allow exemption except for medical reasons? The article states that the school has only 42.6 % vaccination rate. Something does not add up. 

I am all for parental choice when it comes to vaccines and while I know people who do not vaccinate, they are definitely a minority. Especially those who do not vaccinate at all (v.s. alternative schedule or selective vaccination). From personal experience here in TN and in FL, I have not met a single person who completely does not vaccinate and has children in public school. Both TN and FL allow for exemption so it is possible to not vaccinate and attend school here. But if only 43% of people vaccinate, you would think we would run into one or two unvaccinated kids. That is why I find it very surprising that more than half of children in this particular school are not vaccinated.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Not trying to be judgmental, but don't the Scientologist not believe in vaccines? Or any kind of medicines at all? 

Might be why they are all youngish.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Not trying to be judgmental, but don't the Scientologist not believe in vaccines? Or any kind of medicines at all?
> 
> Might be why they are all youngish.


I think you're thnking of Christian Scientists. The Scientologists seek conventional medical treatment but they don't care much for psychiatry unless I'm misremembering.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

haley1 said:


> Why don't they say what strain of the virus it is? Maybe they don't want us to know where it really came from.


They said they think it came from someone who had traveled overseas.
What real difference does the particular "strain" make?
It's not a Flu virus

Not everything is a Govt conspiracy


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

The difference the strain makes is the severity of the disease. I had the "3 day" measles as a kid, but even then there was another strain that was much more serious. I remember having some fever and getting the spots, but really didn't feel all that bad. But getting the "real" measles was a pretty serious matter, could even be life threatening, IIRC. Fast forward to today, who knows what it has mutated into.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> How come that majority of children in this school is unvaccinated since CA does not allow exemption except for medical reasons?


That's a new law that just took effect this year.
I believe before there were "religious and personal" exemptions which could explain a large group not being vaccinated

http://www.nvic.org/Vaccine-Laws/state-vaccine-requirements/california.aspx


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MO_cows said:


> The difference the strain makes is the severity of the disease. I had *the "3 day" measles as a kid*, but even then there was another strain that was much more serious. I remember having some fever and getting the spots, but really didn't feel all that bad. But getting the "real" measles was a pretty serious matter, could even be life threatening, IIRC. Fast forward to today, who knows what it has mutated into.


That's a different virus, not a different "strain" of Measles
One is Rubeola (Measles) and is the disease named in the OP article
The other is Rubella (German Measles)

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/rubella/basics/definition/CON-20020067



> Rubella, also called German measles or three-day measles, is a contagious viral infection best known by its distinctive red rash.
> 
> Rubella is not the same as measles (rubeola), though the two illnesses do share some characteristics, including the red rash.
> 
> *However, rubella is caused by a different virus than measles*, and is neither as infectious nor usually as severe as measles.


The confusion comes from both including "measles" in the common name even though they are different diseases altogether

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubeola



> Measles affects about 20 million people a year,[1] primarily in the developing areas of Africa and Asia.[4] It causes the most vaccine-preventable deaths of any disease.[8] It resulted in about 96,000 deaths in 2013, down from 545,000 deaths in 1990.[9] In 1980, the disease is estimated to have caused 2.6 million deaths per year.[4]


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

They not only have the word "measles" in the common names, Rubella and Rubeola are both pronounced the same and the red rash appears the same.
I'll admit this is the first time I heard an explanation of a is a viral difference between the two diseases.
If I would have had kids, I probably would have heard it from a doctor before now, but I doubt I'm the only one on the planet that was ignorant of that fact, thanks for sharing that info.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

basketti said:


> I think you're thnking of Christian Scientists. The Scientologists seek conventional medical treatment but they don't care much for psychiatry unless I'm misremembering.


Looks like you're right. I know a lot of people who hold this belief.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Science



> Christian Science is a set of beliefs and practices belonging to the metaphysical family of new religious movements.[n 2] It was developed in 19th-century New England by Mary Baker Eddy, who argued in her book Science and Health (1875) that sickness is an illusion that can be corrected by prayer alone. The book became Christian Science's central text, along with the King James Bible, and by 2001 had sold over nine million copies.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

farmrbrown said:


> They not only have the word "measles" in the common names, Rubella and Rubeola are both pronounced the same and the red rash appears the same.
> I'll admit this is the first time I heard an explanation of a is a viral difference between the two diseases.
> If I would have had kids, I probably would have heard it from a doctor before now, but I doubt I'm the only one on the planet that was ignorant of that fact, thanks for sharing that info.


They aren't pronounced the same way. http://www.cdc.gov/bam/diseases/immune/db/kreeps.html

German measles is a pretty big deal if it infects a pregnant woman...it can cause serious birth defects.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Here is the thing. That diseases were bad before vaccines because of medical care. Our parents grandparents and great grandparents weren't vaccinated for any of this stuff and they were just fine. Now we have better ways to care for the illness. Heck they are saving people with ebola. So do say we are all doomed because of lack of vaccines is just silly. Infact. Vaccines and antibiotics are creating super bugs that can't be controlled.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Here is the thing. That diseases were bad before vaccines because of medical care. Our parents grandparents and great grandparents weren't vaccinated for any of this stuff and they were just fine. Now we have better ways to care for the illness. Heck they are saving people with ebola. So do say we are all doomed because of lack of vaccines is just silly. Infact. Vaccines and antibiotics are creating super bugs that can't be controlled.


Got a valid scientific source to back up this claim? Since you're talking about facts and all...


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

basketti said:


> Got a valid source to back up this claim?


Life! Why aren't chicken pox an issue?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Life! Why aren't chicken pox an issue?


Not exactly sure what you're trying to say but I do have a friend who contracted CP as an adult so I ll ask her. Oh wait...I can't. She died from it. 

Maybe you'd care to expand on your "Life!" pronouncement?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

JeffreyD said:


> Life! Why aren't chicken pox an issue?


They are. Complications include:

Serious complications from chickenpox include

dehydration
pneumonia
bleeding problems
infection or inflammation of the brain (encephalitis, cerebellar ataxia)
bacterial infections of the skin and soft tissues in children including Group A streptococcal infections
blood stream infections (sepsis)
toxic shock syndrome
bone infections
joint infections
Some people with serious complications from chickenpox can become so sick that they need to be hospitalized. Chickenpox can also cause death.

From: http://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/about/complications.html

And the further problems of the herpes virus- shingles. The complications for shingles are:

The most common complication of shingles is a condition called post-herpetic neuralgia (PHN). People with PHN have severe pain in the areas where they had the shingles rash, even after the rash clears up.

The pain from PHN may be severe and debilitating, but it usually resolves in a few weeks or months in most patients. Some people can have pain from PHN for many years.

As people get older, they are more likely to develop PHN, and the pain is more likely to be severe. PHN occurs rarely among people under 40 years of age but can occur in up to a third of untreated people who are 60 years of age and older.

Shingles may lead to serious complications involving the eye. Very rarely, shingles can also lead to pneumonia, hearing problems, blindness, brain inflammation (encephalitis) or death.

From: http://www.cdc.gov/shingles/about/complications.html


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

CP may also not be an issue any more because so many children have been vaccinated for them since 1995. Mine were.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Here is the thing. That diseases were bad before vaccines because of medical care. Our parents grandparents and great grandparents weren't vaccinated for any of this stuff and they were just fine. Now we have better ways to care for the illness. Heck they are saving people with ebola. So do say we are all doomed because of lack of vaccines is just silly. Infact. Vaccines and antibiotics are creating super bugs that can't be controlled.


Many died from childhood diseases in our grandparents and great grandparents day. 

We certainly do have better medical care now but it seems to me that treating someone for complications from a preventable disease is a lot more expensive than preventing it in the first place and treatment isn't always a complete success.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Let me repeat that for you who need it repeated:



Vahomesteaders said:


> A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association &#8212; *Pediatrics last year found that 88 percent of measles cases in the country &#8220;were internationally imported or epidemiologically or virologically linked to importation.*&#8221;
> 
> There were a few cases not linked to any kind of importation over a period from 2001 to 2011, but they did not seem to be endemic, researchers said. *The study ultimately found that while endemic measles was still eliminated, international importation remained a serious risk.*


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Wolf mom said:


> Let me repeat that for you who need it repeated:


So? What is your point?

Does that make it less likely that unvaccinated American people won't contract it and lessen herd immunity? Doesn't this bolster the idea of making sure everyone is vaccinated?

Or are you bringing up the idea of making tourists produce vaccine records which is a different argument?

If it's the "illegal aliens are infecting us!!!" argument, then: http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/false-narrative-on-measles-outbreak/


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

If your children are vaccinated and your so confident in them then no worries. They won't hey the illness anyway correct?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Vahomesteaders said:


> If your children are vaccinated and your so confident in them then no worries. They won't hey the illness anyway correct?


If you haven't learned yet about herd immunity (what is it and why it's so important) then it isn't up to me to educate you. I and countless other posters have posted links and explained it ad nauseum. 
Google it, find someone to break it down for you, or remain unknowledgable. Your choice.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

I know what it is. It was coined by a doctor who studied measels for 30 years pre vaccine. He found that almost 68% of children had developed a natural immunity. We are artificially suppressing our natural immunities and it will blow up in our faces. 

http://vaccinechoicecanada.com/abou...he-misplaced-driver-of-universal-vaccination/


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

And isn't it odd that as they add more and more vaccines autoimmune diseases keep increasing.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I know what it is. It was coined by a doctor who studied measels for 30 years pre vaccine. He found that almost 68% of children had developed a natural immunity. We are artificially suppressing our natural immunities and it will blow up in our faces.
> 
> http://vaccinechoicecanada.com/abou...he-misplaced-driver-of-universal-vaccination/


If you want to believe unscientific fairy-tale drivel, be my guest. It doesn't make your "argument" any better.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I know what it is. It was coined by a doctor who studied measels for 30 years pre vaccine. He found that almost 68% of children had developed a natural immunity. We are artificially suppressing our natural immunities and it will blow up in our faces.
> 
> http://vaccinechoicecanada.com/abou...he-misplaced-driver-of-universal-vaccination/


That isn't what A W Hedrich said, "His study published in the May, 1933 American Journal of Epidemiology concluded that when 68% of children younger than 15 yrs old had become *immune to measles via infection*, measles epidemics ceased. For several reasons, this natural, pre-vaccine herd immunity differed greatly from today&#8217;s vaccine &#8216;herd immunity&#8217;.1,2

When immunity was derived from natural infection, a much smaller proportion of the population needed to become immune to show the herd effect; compare the 68% measles immunity required for natural herd immunity to the very high percentages of vaccine uptake deemed necessary for measles vaccine &#8216;herd immunity&#8217;. In his &#8216;Vaccine Safety Manual&#8217;, Neil Z Miller cites research which concluded increasing vaccine uptake necessary for &#8216;herd immunity&#8217; ranging from &#8220;70 to 80 percent of two year olds in inner cities&#8221; in 1991 to &#8220;&#8216;close to 100 percent coverage&#8217;&#8230;with a vaccine that is 90 to 98 percent effective.&#8221; in 1997. Miller notes that, &#8220;When the measles vaccine was introduced in 1963, officials were confident that they could eradicate the disease by 1967.&#8221;

From your link.

He stated that measles epidemics wouldn't occur because many were immune through *infection*. Of course, once you've had measles you can't get it again.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

basketti said:


> If you want to believe unscientific fairy-tale drivel, be my guest. It doesn't make your "argument" any better.


Silly me. 

I was just reminded that you were the poster behind this gem about your own special kind of birth control: 



Vahomesteaders said:


> We are 34 and in our prime. Without going into detail there are ways not to allow the boys to swim up there. Just picture a mack truck driving out of a tunnel very fast in reverse. Working great for 10 years with no transmission problems. Lol


So given that level of medical, biological, and physiological expertise and knowledge, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you. 

You have a nice day now.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Vahomesteaders said:


> And isn't it odd that as they add more and more vaccines autoimmune diseases keep increasing.


Sigh. There have always been autoimmune diseases, they were known as "rheumatism" and other things.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Vahomesteaders said:


> If your children are vaccinated and your so confident in them then no worries. They won't hey the illness anyway correct?


_If_ their titers are high enough, and they are healthy enough to have been vaccinated. 

Too bad for Susie with leukemia... right?


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

Yes, recent measles outbreaks in the US have been "imported." That does not imply they've necessarily come from *immigrants* illegal, or legal, much as recent Islamophobes find it comforting to claim. See http://www.kvoa.com/story/27930242/78-people-now-infected-in-us-measles-outbreak


> The majority of recent outbreaks have been traced back to unvaccinated U.S. residents.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> They not only have the word "measles" in the common names, Rubella and Rubeola are *both pronounced the same* and the red rash appears the same.
> I'll admit this is the first time I heard an explanation of a is a viral difference between the two diseases.
> If I would have had kids, I probably would have heard it from a doctor before now, but I doubt I'm the only one on the planet that was ignorant of that fact, thanks for sharing that info.


They aren't "pronounced the same"

Ru-bell-a

Ru- be- o-la


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Here is the thing. That diseases were bad before vaccines because of medical care. Our parents grandparents and great grandparents *weren't vaccinated for any of this stuff and they were just fine.* Now we have better ways to care for the illness. Heck they are saving people with ebola. So do say we are all doomed because of lack of vaccines is just silly. Infact.
> 
> *Vaccines and antibiotics are creating super bugs that can't be controlled*.


Except for those who died or went blind.
Don't fall for the hysteria


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> If your children are vaccinated and your so confident in them then no worries. They won't hey the illness anyway correct?


This has been discussed already.
There are many who are still at risk due to weakened immune systems or that are too young to be fully vaccinated


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I know what it is. It was coined by a doctor who studied measels for 30 years pre vaccine. He found that almost 68% of children had developed a natural immunity. *We are artificially suppressing our natural immunities* and it will blow up in our faces.
> 
> http://vaccinechoicecanada.com/abou...he-misplaced-driver-of-universal-vaccination/


You only get "natural immunity" by being exposed to the disease.
Vaccines expose you to a mild form of the disease.

You're parroting the hype while not understanding the facts


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They aren't "pronounced the same"
> 
> Ru-bell-a
> 
> Ru- be- o-la


Fair enough.
I didn't know the "o" wasn't silent either apparently.
That's one more I thing I learned today. :thumb:


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## fireweed farm (Dec 31, 2010)

Am I dreaming, or are the anti vaxxers here also all flaming trump supporters? No thinking required as long as it sounds good?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

fireweed farm said:


> Am I dreaming, or are the anti vaxxers here also all flaming trump supporters? No thinking required as long as it sounds good?


I think you might be dreaming :hysterical:. Try a nice cup of coffee or tea, helps ya wake up.


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Here is the thing. That diseases were bad before vaccines because of medical care. Our parents grandparents and great grandparents weren't vaccinated for any of this stuff and they were just fine. Now we have better ways to care for the illness. Heck they are saving people with ebola. So do say we are all doomed because of lack of vaccines is just silly. Infact. Vaccines and antibiotics are creating super bugs that can't be controlled.


Your first statement is partially true. Diseases had worse impacts due to poor medical knowledge. However, your next line, that grandparents were just fine, is the anecdotal evidence logical fallacy. Many grandparents lived, but their brothers and sisters died at a much higher rate.
The fact that they are able to treat Ebola is due to vaccine technology and the world wide medical community creating a cure, or prevention, for the disease. Even still, it's not completely effective, and public support for it waned after the initial explosion. Would you deny people Ebola vaccines just because you think the vaccines aren't safe? That would be highly unethical.
There are superbugs, and some are created through overuse and misuse of drugs. We should rectify these problems, but stating that they should be removed because there are now superbug problems is the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Please correct your fallacious views to be taken seriously.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Heritagefarm said:


> Your first statement is partially true. Diseases had worse impacts due to poor medical knowledge. However, your next line, that grandparents were just fine, is the anecdotal evidence logical fallacy. Many grandparents lived, but their brothers and sisters died at a much higher rate.
> The fact that they are able to treat Ebola is due to vaccine technology and the world wide medical community creating a cure, or prevention, for the disease. Even still, it's not completely effective, and public support for it waned after the initial explosion. Would you deny people Ebola vaccines just because you think the vaccines aren't safe? That would be highly unethical.
> There are superbugs, and some are created through overuse and misuse of drugs. We should rectify these problems, but stating that they should be removed because there are now superbug problems is the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Please correct your fallacious views to be taken seriously.


I never said removed. I say only that it's a person's right to choose what goes in their body. There should be no law forcing you to put a chemical in your body. Just as there should be no law saying you can't create these things. To each their own. People scream right to choose on every issue they agree with but force on the issues they don't. It goes both ways. Freedom for all or freedom for none.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I never said removed. I say only that it's a person's right to choose what goes in their body. There should be no law forcing you to put a chemical in your body. Just as there should be no law saying you can't create these things. To each their own. People scream right to choose on every issue they agree with but force on the issues they don't. It goes both ways. Freedom for all or freedom for none.


If you were only jeopardizing _your_ life I'd agree with you 100% but you're not. Your rights end when they impinge on someone else's.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Vahomesteaders said:


> A study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association &#8212; Pediatrics last year found that 88 percent of measles cases in the country &#8220;were internationally imported or epidemiologically or virologically linked to importation.&#8221;
> 
> There were a few cases not linked to any kind of importation over a period from 2001 to 2011, but they did not seem to be endemic, researchers said. The study ultimately found that while endemic measles was still eliminated, international importation remained a serious risk.


I looked for this but could not find it. Would you happen to have a link, please?


Irish Pixie said:


> _If_ their titers are high enough, and they are healthy enough to have been vaccinated.
> 
> Too bad for Susie with leukemia... right?


Yeah, too bad for Susie with leukemia, little six month old Johnny who won't get his measles vaccine until his one year checkup, and Grandma Jean who is just old.

Hey, you might be fine with your unvaccinated kids getting it because they're healthy, but some people aren't.


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

Well, I can tell you from personal experience there's a big difference between Rubeola and Rubella. Both are serious diseases, but Rubeola is much more serious. I got it as an adult. Not sure how my parents missed vaccinating me, since they were very conscientious about making sure their children all received their vaccinations, but somehow it got missed.

When I went to the doc to confirm my suspicions that I had measles, he told me he thought I had Rubeola but I wasn't sick enough. He took swabs to test to make sure. I went home and obliged him. By the next day, I've never been sicker in my life. Light sensitivity (wore a blindfold for several days), bad fever, vomiting and the worst respiratory distress I've ever suffered. Made worse by the secondary bacterial respiratory infection I got on the heels of the disease.

Sick enough that the illness had to be reported to the Department of Health.

Sick enough that my doctor called me at home several times a day, to make sure I was still making a recovery. He was really worried.

Took several weeks to get through the whole ordeal, and I was lucky.

I urge the vaccination. It was bad. And I have always hoped I didn't infect anyone else.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Raeven said:


> Well, I can tell you from personal experience there's a big difference between Rubeola and Rubella. Both are serious diseases, but Rubeola is much more serious. I got it as an adult. Not sure how my parents missed vaccinating me, since they were very conscientious about making sure their children all received their vaccinations, but somehow it got missed.
> 
> When I went to the doc to confirm my suspicions that I had measles, he told me he thought I had Rubeola but I wasn't sick enough. He took swabs to test to make sure. I went home and obliged him. By the next day, I've never been sicker in my life. Light sensitivity (wore a blindfold for several days), bad fever, vomiting and the worst respiratory distress I've ever suffered. Made worse by the secondary bacterial respiratory infection I got on the heels of the disease.
> 
> ...


Have you considered you may have had the vaccine and it didn't work. It's rather common.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Narshalla said:


> I looked for this but could not find it. Would you happen to have a link, please?
> 
> 
> Yeah, too bad for Susie with leukemia, little six month old Johnny who won't get his measles vaccine until his one year checkup, and Grandma Jean who is just old.
> ...


http://www.microbiologybook.org/mhunt/measles-import.htm


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Have you considered you may have had the vaccine and it didn't work. It's rather common.


How common is it? Do you have a source for this claim?

The CDC says: Between 2% and 5% of people do not develop measles immunity after the first dose of vaccine. This occurs for a variety of reasons. The second dose is to provide another chance to develop measles immunity for people who did not respond to the first dose.

That doesn't sound common to me.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> I never said removed. I say only that it's a person's right to choose what goes in their body. *There should be no law forcing you to put a chemical in your body*. Just as there should be no law saying you can't create these things. To each their own. People scream right to choose on every issue they agree with but force on the issues they don't. It goes both ways. Freedom for all or freedom for none.


There are no laws that say you have to be vaccinated.

There are laws that make it a requirement if you want to partake in certain Govt provided services such as public schools.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

In case of the 54 people who got it in California recently 6 were vaccinated and 1 had received the first of 2 shots. So 6 is a rather high percentage considering such a small group.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Have you considered you may have had the vaccine and it didn't work. *It's rather common*.


It's more common for folks to make such claims without offering any corroborating evidence.
I'd be happy to see yours


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Vahomesteaders said:


> In case of the 54 people who got it in California recently 6 were vaccinated and 1 had received the first of 2 shots. So 6 is a rather high percentage considering such a small group.


Do you have a link?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> http://www.microbiologybook.org/mhunt/measles-import.htm


That says 88% of the cases were "imported" and the remaining 12% were *"unknown"* in origin

What is it again you think this proves?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Vahomesteaders said:


> In case of the 54 people who got it in California recently 6 were vaccinated and 1 had received the first of 2 shots. So 6 is a rather high percentage considering such a small group.


Here you go

http://www.wired.com/2015/01/vaccinated-people-get-measles-disneyland-blame-unvaccinated/


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## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Have you considered you may have had the vaccine and it didn't work. It's rather common.


I considered it, but I think it's unlikely. I spoke with my parents to see what they remembered about it, and they both recalled that they thought I'd had measles in childhood so didn't need the vaccination.

The incidence of vaccinations not working is so minute I would never use it as a basis to tell people not to bother. Even if I was one of the very few for whom the vaccination didn't work, chances are excellent it would still work for them.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That says 88% of the cases were "imported" and the remaining 12% were *"unknown"* in origin
> 
> What is it again you think this proves?


It means you can't jump all over American born people who weren't vaccinated. Over the last 10 years is been the folks coming into the country bringing the majority of diseases. Who knows what's coming in with all the illegals. Considering the high rates of these diseases down south of the border, it's safe to assume sobe are coming in. But nobody wants to blame them. Only the local folks with the right and freedom to choose what they will do with their body. So it very well could be illegals killing the immune compromised child. But nobody wants to talk about that. 


Here is the article on effectiveness of the vaccine. While it's fairly high is not perfect. So it can't all be blamed on antivaxers. 

My kids and myself were vaccinated. I'm not saying they are bad. But I believe in a right to choose. I also seen my beautiful niece who was a normal 3 year old get her 3 year shots and within weeks was a different person and was later diagnosed with autism. I seen first hand the change in her. Then her brother was born and was a normal little boy. Starting to talk good. Got the same shots and emediatly changed. Regressed in speach and and developed behavior issues. Then the autism diagnosis. He didn't start to speak full sentence until 9 and still doesn't communicate well. So he went from "hi uncle matt. I missed you" to incoherent dribble. Weeks after the shots. I don't know if they had genetic predisposition that the vaccine triggered. But it's something that needs to be studied and parents the right to choose. As the vaccine list had grown. So has the cases of autism and other issues.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...less-effective-for-mumps-than-measles-rubella


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## Heritagefarm (Feb 21, 2010)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Have you considered you may have had the vaccine and it didn't work. It's rather common.


Some people's immune response is limited. It's unclear why, but it fails to eliminate the effectiveness of the treatment.



Irish Pixie said:


> If you were only jeopardizing _your_ life I'd agree with you 100% but you're not. Your rights end when they impinge on someone else's.


To a certain extent, I'll agree with that. Certain vaccines have indeed been recalled or shown to have damaging effects that outweighed the disease they sought to hinder.



Vahomesteaders said:


> I never said removed. I say only that it's a person's right to choose what goes in their body. There should be no law forcing you to put a chemical in your body. Just as there should be no law saying you can't create these things. To each their own. People scream right to choose on every issue they agree with but force on the issues they don't. It goes both ways. Freedom for all or freedom for none.


If we're talking about abortions, and please don't pursue that line of discussion, as I've fairly well gotten tired of it, but suffice it to say -- someone getting an abortion effects only themselves and the child. Failing to vaccinate, especially on a large scale, can harm many people.



Vahomesteaders said:


> It means you can't jump all over American born people who weren't vaccinated. Over the last 10 years is been the folks coming into the country bringing the majority of diseases. Who knows what's coming in with all the illegals. Considering the high rates of these diseases down south of the border, it's safe to assume sobe are coming in. But nobody wants to blame them. Only the local folks with the right and freedom to choose what they will do with their body. So it very well could be illegals killing the immune compromised child. But nobody wants to talk about that.
> 
> 
> Here is the article on effectiveness of the vaccine. While it's fairly high is not perfect. So it can't all be blamed on antivaxers.
> ...


I'm sorry for the people you know. I think it is possible some people may have deleterious immune responses to vaccines. Also, your argument displays the small-sample size logical fallacy. That doesn't negate it, however. I could, however, show you a graph where organic food sales mirror the rise of autism.
You must consider other causes of autism. There is extremely little link between autism and vaccinations, and the paper that supposedly revealed this link was repealed, redacted -- possibly shredded and burnt.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> It means you can't jump all over American born people who weren't vaccinated. Over the last 10 years is been the folks coming into the country bringing the majority of diseases. Who knows what's coming in with all the illegals. Considering the high rates of these diseases down south of the border, it's safe to assume sobe are coming in. But nobody wants to blame them. Only the local folks with the right and freedom to choose what they will do with their body. So it very well could be illegals killing the immune compromised child. But nobody wants to talk about that.
> 
> 
> Here is the article on effectiveness of the vaccine. While it's fairly high is not perfect. So it can't all be blamed on antivaxers.
> ...


If everyone was vaccinated who could be, it wouldn't make much difference when the occasional case comes in. 

It's when it's spread to multiple people who thought it was fine not to be vaccinated that it causes problems

Nothing the world is "perfect" so if that's the standard you set for vaccines, you're unrealistic. In the the real world anything above 90% is about as good as one could expect, which is what your source states for Rubeola


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

I have been following this thread to see if anyone familiar with the area responded to my earlier question as to why this school only has 42.6% vaccination rate. There must be something about this particular community. California overall has a 92.6% vaccination rate (in 2014-15 - per CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-man...ew/data-reports/coverage-reports/2014-15.html)

In California also the percentage of exemptions is 0.2 % (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-man.../data-reports/exemptions-reports/2014-15.html). 

As I said before ... something does not add up. I did look up the information on the new vaccine law in CA that allows only for medical exemption and it does not go into effect until next school year (I thought it was already in effect when I posted earlier). It will be interesting to see how these statistics change. If at all. 

Somehow I do not think that the 0.2% of parents who file for vaccine exemption who do not vaccinate are the culprit ...


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

FarmerKat said:


> I have been following this thread to see if anyone familiar with the area responded to my earlier question as to why this school only has 42.6% vaccination rate. There must be something about this particular community. California overall has a 92.6% vaccination rate (in 2014-15 - per CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-man...ew/data-reports/coverage-reports/2014-15.html)
> 
> In California also the percentage of exemptions is 0.2 % (http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-man.../data-reports/exemptions-reports/2014-15.html).
> 
> ...


You're asking about Nevada City? I'm not from there but a quick Google shows there is a substantial "hippy" type population there and is even an "Ayurvedic" college.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

From a quick search on Google it also host a hefty illegal immigrant population.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Vahomesteaders said:


> From a quick search on Google it also host a hefty illegal immigrant population.


Really? Where do you find that? I'm finding a very small Hispanic community overall there. Especially given the usual demographics in western states. http://nevadacity.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

And if you are in fact talking about Hispanic illegal Immigrants, I believe I posted a source earlier pointing out Central America and Mexico's measles vaccine compliance at or exceeding the U.S. measles vaccine compliance rate.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

basketti said:


> Really? Where do you find that? I'm finding a very small Hispanic community overall there. Especially given the usual demographics in western states. http://nevadacity.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm


Took all of 2 minutes to find:

New Report: Nevada has Highest Rate of Illegal Immigrants and Illegal Workers

KTVNNews, February 1, 2011
LAS VEGAS (AP) -- A report on illegal immigrants says* Nevada has the largest share of illegal workers in the nation, a population that has grown despite record unemployment.*
The Pew Hispanic Center's annual report published Tuesday shows roughly 10 percent of Nevada workers are illegal immigrants who are not authorized by the federal government to work.
California's 1.85 million illegal workers are the largest in the nation, but they only represent 9.7 percent of the Golden State's work force.
Nevada also has the largest share of illegal immigrants at 7.2 percent. Only 3.7 percent of people in the United States are illegal immigrants.
Nevada's population of illegal workers was 9.4 percent in 2009. The Silver State's unemployment rate has since climbed to 14.5 percent, the highest in the nation.

http://sanctuarycities.info/sanctuary_state_nevada.htm


Or this:

*Nevada has highest proportion of illegal immigrants in U.S.: *study

Nevada has the highest proportion of illegal immigrants of any U.S. state at 7.6 percent of its population while the number of illegal immigrants nationwide is leveling off at about 11.2 million, according to a study released on Tuesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-nevada-idUSKCN0J300H20141119


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Took all of 2 minutes to find:
> 
> New Report: Nevada has Highest Rate of Illegal Immigrants and Illegal Workers
> 
> ...



Oh for bleeps sake. This is why I already said I wouldn't post back to VaHomesteader and now you're joining in on his level. Read the posts.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

basketti said:


> You're asking about Nevada CITY? I'm not from there but a quick Google shows there is a substantial "hippy" type population there and is even an "Ayurvedic" college.


see? Nevada City. Not the state.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

basketti said:


> see? Nevada City. Not the state.



Oh for pets sake! Get real.
So illegal criminal aliens don't travel? Why not look at the states numbers too?


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## FarmerKat (Jul 3, 2014)

basketti said:


> You're asking about Nevada City? I'm not from there but a quick Google shows there is a substantial "hippy" type population there and is even an "Ayurvedic" college.





Vahomesteaders said:


> From a quick search on Google it also host a hefty illegal immigrant population.


So basically, this school is in a community that has an unusually high number of unvaccinated children. Maybe this community needs to do something locally to address the challenges they may be have to prepare for. But instead (like CA passing the law to do away with non-medical exemptions) we penalize the small % of parents who file vaccine exemptions.

Also, I downloaded the full spreadsheet with exemption data from the CDC site. In CA it is 0.2 % medical exemptions and 2.5% non-medical. I apologize for the incorrect number. I simply read the website but not the detailed data at first.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

JeffreyD said:


> Oh for pets sake! Get real.
> So illegal criminal aliens don't travel? Why not look at the states numbers too?


Jeffrey...if you can't read the posts, don't bother responding to me. I don't think you are even aware of what the thread is about or what I was responding to.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

FarmerKat said:


> So basically, this school is in a community that has an unusually high number of unvaccinated children. Maybe this community needs to do something locally to address the challenges they may be have to prepare for. But instead (like CA passing the law to do away with non-medical exemptions) we penalize the small % of parents who file vaccine exemptions.
> 
> Also, I downloaded the full spreadsheet with exemption data from the CDC site. In CA it is 0.2 % medical exemptions and 2.5% non-medical. I apologize for the incorrect number. I simply read the website but not the detailed data at first.


Looks like it. Will be interesting to see how it's handled.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

basketti said:


> see? Nevada City. Not the state.


Oh for pete's sake! The state of Nevada and Nevada City, California are the same thing!! :facepalm:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeffreyD said:


> *Took all of 2 minutes to find:
> *
> New Report: Nevada has Highest Rate of Illegal Immigrants and Illegal Workers
> 
> ...


You're in the wrong state dude.
It's "Nevada City, CA"


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeffreyD said:


> Oh for pets sake!* Get real*.
> So illegal criminal aliens don't travel? *Why not *look at the states numbers too?


Because it has *nothing* to do with anything being discussed would be the logical answer.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Because it has *nothing* to do with anything being discussed would be the logical answer.


Thank you.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

Nevada city has a population of right at 3000 people. In 2015 12% of the population was Hispanic. That's of the known Hispanics. So it could easily be 15 to 20% as data on undocumented immigrants can vary as much as 5 to 10%.


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

And when they say only 43% vaccinated that's still a very low number. Schools in our area have more students then the entire population of the town.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Nevada city has a population of right at 3000 people. In 2015 12% of the population was Hispanic. That's of the known Hispanics. So it could easily be 15 to 20% as data on undocumented immigrants can vary as much as 5 to 10%.


And you know absolutely zilch about how many illegal aliens there are there or what their vaccination rates are. this is all supposition by you.

I do notice that you are determinedly ignoring my two posts about the high compliance rate of people in Central American and Mexico. It's hard when facts don't fit your agenda.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Vahomesteaders said:


> Nevada city has a population of right at 3000 people. In 2015 12% of the population was Hispanic. That's of the known Hispanics. So it *could *easily be 15 to 20% as data on undocumented immigrants can vary as much as 5 to 10%.


According to JeffreyD they *could* have all moved to Las Vegas


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## Vahomesteaders (Jun 4, 2014)

A very interesting article. 

http://thinkingmomsrevolution.com/vaxxed-cover-catastrophe/


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Vaxxed, the anti-vaccine documentary made by a team of anti-vaccine activists *(but curiously, no vaccine experts)* has come and gone and come again. Nice one sided view of things once again paranoia on full scale alert.
The movie is likely to disappear into relative obscurity soon the way others have gone bye bye to the deep unknown vast emptiness.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

From the original article in the 1st post..........



*California public health officials are working to stop a possible measles outbreak after a student tested positive for measles at a school with a high number of unvaccinated students.

The Nevada County Public Health Department said the unnamed student attended the Yuba River Charter School and showed symptoms when the student attended school earlier this month. The agency did not identify the grade of the student. Nevada county is in the Sierra Nevada mountains, about an hour north of Sacramento and near the border with Nevada.

*





Vahomesteaders said:


> *Nevada city has a population of right at 3000 people.* In 2015 12% of the population was Hispanic. That's of the known Hispanics. So it could easily be 15 to 20% as data on undocumented immigrants can vary as much as 5 to 10%.




So let me get this straight.
*1* student in a town of 3,000 got measles, .03% of the population.........and this is an outbreak that will doom grandma, infant baby Joe, little Susie with leukemia and countless others all over the state, and maybe even the world?!!! 

Doesn't it actually mean that the town actually has a better success rate than the CDC averages of 97%?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> From the original article in the 1st post..........
> California public health officials are working to stop a *possible* measles outbreak after a student tested positive for measles at a school with a high number of unvaccinated students.
> 
> The Nevada County Public Health Department said the unnamed student attended the Yuba River Charter School and showed symptoms when the student attended school earlier this month. The agency did not identify the grade of the student. Nevada county is in the Sierra Nevada mountains, about an hour north of Sacramento and near the border with Nevada.
> ...


I don't remember anyone calling it an actual "outbreak", and they really don't know how many *may* come down with the disease, hence the word "possible".

It can take up to three weeks for symptoms to develop after exposure

It really says nothing about any "success rate" for the town since the virus came from outside the country and it's too soon to tell who may be sick.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That says 88% of the cases were "imported" and the remaining 12% were *"unknown"* in origin
> 
> What is it again you think this proves?


Also, this shows that the last year they have statistics for is 2011 -- so it has nothing to say about the 2015 Disney outbreak.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Vahomesteaders said:


> A very interesting article.
> 
> http://thinkingmomsrevolution.com/vaxxed-cover-catastrophe/


Of course you do, it's misinformation aligns perfectly with your view. 

The director of âVaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastropheâ is Andrew Wakefield. Wakefield's anti vax study (released in 1998) has been roundly dismissed as false with vaccine experts for well over a decade.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Of course you do, it's misinformation aligns perfectly with your view.
> 
> The director of âVaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastropheâ is Andrew Wakefield. Wakefield's anti vax study (released in 1998) has been roundly dismissed as false with vaccine experts for well over a decade.


Not only was he thoroughly and completely discredited, but he was stripped of his medical license for his fraud and abuse of developmentally challenged children.


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