# Unschooling



## PrettyPaisley

I would love some advice ! 

I finally mustered the courage to pull Paisley from the charter school that she has been in for the past 2.5 years. My intention is to homeschool her - at some point. The child has been in some sort of formal schooling for half of her life. She turned seven in August. Frankly, I was simply over all the require memorization and the expectation she vomit back information on command. The more I thought about it the more I knew it was time to let her be a kid - and have no other inappropriate expectations placed on her at this young age. For heavens sake - she is *7* and had never made macaroni art !!!  

So the plan is (was) to just let her run wild (of course she will still have to bathe, brush her teeth, clean her room and go to bed at a respectable time), and get the wiggles out that she has been holding back for 3.5 years. I just want her to focus on playing and being a kid. I figure once we get through the spring when we will have baby goats everywhere, gardens to plant, the summer with all the harvesting and preserving and the fall garden tucked away - we can think again about a curriculum. But SO is having a fit. While the idea of homeschooling isn't really the hang up anymore (because after 13 years I've proven I can do almost anything I set my mind to) the idea of her free ranging for almost a year is more than my SO can handle. I keep getting the "we all had to do it" (meaning school) and I can't seem to get the point across that Paisley is already ahead of what she should be based on the standards of a human. SO is basing it on the school standards which no longer apply. 

So I guess what I am looking for is a way to appease SO without giving up the plan to let Paisley de-school as we prepare to unschool. I was thinking that we could go back and learn to print properly and then on to cursive because it was totally dumped from the school she went to and it is something she wants to learn to do. But all SO could say was, "Spending an hour practicing a cursive "a" is not homeschooling."  So clearly neither is homemade play dough, macaroni art and glitter glue. 

Any ideas on how to keep the peace and still let her be a kid?


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## Wendy

> Any ideas on how to keep the peace and still let her be a kid?


There is no reason why she can't have schooling & still be a kid. My kids are in public school, but when they are home, they are being kids. There's no reason why she can't do both.


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## PrettyPaisley

Wendy said:


> There is no reason why she can't have schooling & still be a kid. My kids are in public school, but when they are home, they are being kids. There's no reason why she can't do both.


 For you perhaps, but we see things differently. And maybe as "being a kid" is defined these days - sure. 

There is simply no way for her to be free to be a kid when she wakes at 6:45am, gets in the car for a 30 minute ride at 7:15am, sits in a classroom from 8:05am-3:15pm with a short recess. She even said me the very week I took her out of school, "I hated being in class and having to potty and not being allowed to because the teacher was teaching something she said I could not miss." I mean, I guess asking permission to relieve yourself is part of being a kid. I no longer agree with it. 

After standing in a car pool line (the only option is to pick up your children at this school-they did not bus the kids) she would get home around 4:15-4:30 depending on the day, and I was (I am no longer) working 3 weekdays (Wed-Fri and Saturday evenings) so we would pass in the driveway and blow kisses. It wasn't until tears started to well up in her eyes about 2 months ago that I knew things had to change ASAP. While I would have dinner ready for them each night, SO was still having to work on night chores (I can't put the goats away at 3pm when I have to dress for work and smell human) so she would sit with her sister in front of the TV until SO was finished, then dinner, homework, bath and bed. All to do it again the next day. 

That, to me, is not being a kid. That is being an unwilling participant in an insane adult world. Now whether or not anyone agrees with me sending her to a charter school that is 30 minutes away might be relevant to them, but it is not to me. Couple all of what I just said with the fact that our education system is broken and our children are being forced to perform like circus monkeys so the state will be giving federal money based on test scores and it's time to opt out. Could she catch the bus and go to a local school? Sure she could. But it wouldn't change my opinion of how broken our way of educating kids today is.


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## V-NH

Interesting perspective. I don't have any advice for you, but I thought I would comment because your perspective seems so different than my own. My wife and I are both public school teachers. We hope to homeschool with an emphasis on accelerated learning so that our kids can learn more than is taught in school in a shorter amount of time, then move on to more applied knowledge. I'm of the mindset that elementary school is the most important part of a child's education, because it teaches the essential skills. After all, everyone needs to know how to read, write, and do basic math or they've got no chance of success. It is also important to note that children are most receptive to new information (especially language skills - reading/writing) at the age your child is at now. It's going to be harder for them to learn these things as they get older. With our own children, we're going to start pushing reading and writing as soon as they can talk and hold a book.

I think it's great that you want to take responsibility for your child's education. Please just keep in mind that the job market is becoming even more competitive. Ultimately, your homeschooling regimen needs to prepare your child to compete with students that are experiencing increasingly high academic standards or they'll have a tough time when they're an adult. Making your homeschooling curriculum less rigorous than a public school curriculum is very risky. I'll be interested to hear how it turns out for you


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## KentuckyDreamer

I posted in the Montessori thread so you pretty much know my thoughts. That said, I have unschooled two of three sons. One son, after unschooling for a few years decided he needed more math and enrolled in a community college at age fifteen. He had a great start on his associate's degree before he had his G.E.D. One of his instructors asked if he was a "genius"...No, just following his interests on his own time.

My nine year old unschools. I would not have it any other way. The boy reads because he likes it, runs around the house like a wild colt, etc. Unschooling and being a child means a child is "Learning all the Time" (as John Holt writes). 

I "unschooled" after the 8th grade. When I was interested I went to college and graduated cum laude. 

My hope is your SO marvels at the process and comes to appreciate the beauty of it all.


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## Melissa

I would say that most every child will learn something if exposed to the world around them. You can't really stop them! I probably would not stop cold-turkey with any formal schooling, she may actually like doing something a little more formal with you in a one-on-one situation. So yes, have her write stories, play math games, read lots of books, watch educational videos, lots of art and music and presentations. Play games, visit local attractions as you can, go to plays/musicals, anything that captures her attention.


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## BigHenTinyBrain

Creative explanations! 
Macaroni art is "an exploration of household items as artistic medium, with an emphasis on the use of foods in a new context"
Building a couch cushion fort is "applied geometry and architecture with found materials"
Cursive is "historically accurate writing, creating a connection between the act of writing a narrative and the visual appeal of said narrative" plus hand-eye coordination
Running around like a wild child is "a creative approach to physical eduction including the exploration of her own physical limitations"

I found a "science project" that was essentially- let the kids go sledding in order to experiment with physics... try explaining how some of the unschool activities that you have in mind will be a hands-on, real world way for Paisley to learn about measurement (cooking), physics (anything that involves movement), chemistry or ecology or whatever. When you begin pointing out how every one of her "not educational" activities is actually teaching her something, something that fits into the traditional categories, maybe you'll have better luck.


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## BigHenTinyBrain

And sorry for the double post here, but...

I'm taking my kids out of public school for many of the same reasons PLUS all of what V-NH said. I do NOT want my kids to get an education with the immediate end goal of getting a career. Education is about so much more, and when the school told me they would be starting career counseling with the elementary grades... no thank you! Enough of the learning-is-part-of-the-production-line-to-new-workers attitude! What you do (and what your kids will eventually do) to pay the light bill should not be the focus of your life or your eduction.


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## ErinP

I'm _entirely_ too disorganized to be a facilitator for unschooling!!
Good luck to you. It'd too much work for me.


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## Wendy

What I meant was sitting her down & working with some books for maybe 2 or 3 hours. I personally would not cut out the books totally. I agree with Melissa, kids are always learning. I just think some structure should be there. I am not one for letting my kids run around doing whatever they want all day long. It's good for them to sit down & do some book learning. There is still plenty of time in the day for kids to be kids. They aren't in school on the weekends, breaks, or summer. When those times are here, my kids are out & about & doing what kids do, besides the evenings.


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## backwoods

BigHenTinyBrain said:


> And sorry for the double post here, but...
> 
> I'm taking my kids out of public school for many of the same reasons PLUS all of what V-NH said. I do NOT want my kids to get an education with the immediate end goal of getting a career. Education is about so much more, and when the school told me they would be starting career counseling with the elementary grades... no thank you! Enough of the learning-is-part-of-the-production-line-to-new-workers attitude! What you do (and what your kids will eventually do) to pay the light bill should not be the focus of your life or your eduction.


I so agree with you. "Education is not the filling of a bucket, but the lighting of a fire." Have you read & had your so read any books on unschooling? That's a good place to start.


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## SLFarmMI

Here's my 2 cents worth.

I work with kindergarten through 4th grade age students so I am very familiar with children in your daughter's age range. If I understand your plan correctly from your original post, you intend to let her "run wild" with no attempt at any kind of schooling for approximately one year. I would advise against completely abandoning learning for that long a time. At a minimum, she should be reading something every day to keep those early literacy skills developing. It is much easier to develop early literacy skills in a young child as opposed to an older child. 

However, play dough, macaroni and glitter and schooling are not mutually exclusive. For example, in my class today (I am a public elementary school special education teacher.) we did math with egg cartons and sponges. There are many, many ways to make learning fun regardless of the setting. I would suggest sitting down with your SO for a conversation about what you each expect your daughter to learn by the end of, for lack of a better term, her 1st grade year and then use your creative "macaroni art" ideas to make it happen.


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## mollymae

I am a public school special education teacher. I pulled my own child out of the school I teach in ...in the 7th grade. Elementary was awesome. I was there. I knew what went on daily. Junior High? Another ballgame altogether. The teachers were coaching instead of teaching. she is now in a private Christian school. I love my job teaching children, but also see the frustration and disservice to others. Makes me really angry and sad. I work my butt off for my kids every day. 
I'm so sorry that this happened to your Paisley.
Glad you caught it when you did


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## kile529

I'm in my 5th year of homeschooling. Long story short, I never wanted to and my dh and I were kinda forced into it. Best decision we ever made. That being said, just focus on developing a love of reading and math. Throw in some handwriting and copy work and you'll be good. I've been told by veteran homeschoolers with 20+ years experience to focus on those until 5th grade. Their minds aren't retaining all the info shoved at them and they can't handle it all until then. It's a great way to get started especially as a new homeschooler. Unschooling in true form is child-led learning. If she's interested in horses, base her reading on that! Let her learn all about her interests while also working on her reading etc. Besides, working on those two subjects will give her plenty of time to be a kid. You'll get the hang of it!


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## FCLady

To me homeschooling is teaching all the time. I have twin first graders that we are homeschooling. The other day I wanted to introduce fractions. So we had a fraction breakfast! Everything we ate had to be divided into a fraction. We had all the breakfast no-no's - cake was okay as long as it was a "fraction" of a piece etc. Next day when we sat down to do math they just flew through 3 fraction papers. My point - introduce fun ways to learn and how you would actually use the schooling that they are about to do.

Google Charlotte Mason. She has some very interesting learning ideas. Such as teach for a little while then leave them wanting more. My favorite way to do that is in reading. Start a book, get to a dramatic point, then leave it for tomorrow. All day they are talking about how the story could/should end. When we start our next day of schooling I hear - Finish the story PPPLLLEEEAASSE ! 

An OldFashionEducation has some great stories to read that educate as you read a story. The Meadow People, The Pond People etc. Google Grammar-Land, my kids beg me to read GRAMMAR rules to them!!!!

IMO some structure is necessary to keep them understanding who is "boss-educator" everyday. There are TONS of websites out there that will give you fun ideas and lapbooks to do - use pinterest for ideas. Keep her interested in learning but do it in a fun way - not so structured like public school. Sort of like instilling the idea of her "wanting" to learn without realizing that's what she's doing. Make education a WANT, not a HALF TO. 

Starting something like that will give you confidence and her a new understanding of education. When you read half a book - let her copy only one sentence that sort of sums up what you just read, later on let her write her own ending etc. Sometimes we read a whole short story about, say a ladybug, then we answer questions like a ladybug can - a ladybug has - a ladybug is. Without realizing it she's practicing using her imagination, plus sentence structure, plus penmanship, plus learning about the story topic.

Hardest thing for me was gaining and keeping the confidence that "I" can do this.
Hope that helps.


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## offthegrid

If your child was in public school, but because of an illness or injury couldn't attend school - the district would give you about one hour of tutoring per day for all subjects.

So....if you can give your child an hour of "tutoring" per day (aka structured activities)...then the rest of the day spend experiencing the world, reading, playing games, creating, playing music, developing projects...

That is a lot of school, especially at age 7. 

I know the idea of homeschooling seems overwhelming for many people (sorry, sometimes a lot of the dads!  ) but it does not mean...nor should mean 6-8 hours of *academic study* for most kids. Most especially kids in grades 1-6. If your child understands the subject matter...a "math" lesson might be as short as 5 minutes long. It may take 45 minutes in a public school to cover the same thing, but that's only because there are 20 kids in the room that don't all have the same understanding.

I am another one that could not truly unschool. I don't have the patience or the spontaneity for that type of lifestyle. But, I can say that my kids (grades 7 and 10) do not spend 6-8 hours each day engaged in academic study either. Some days, maybe, other days - nothing...it depends. 

I suggest starting small, and seeing where it takes you. Pick one subject to focus on (choose the one your child enjoys the most) and make it the cornerstone of your day, whether it's reading, or exploring science, or playing math games. In a few weeks, you'll know whether you need more structure or less...or something entirely different.

Your child is so young - looking back from ages 12 and 15.... don't sweat the small stuff! It doesn't have to be hard, especially at that age! HAVE FUN!


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## SueMc

PrettyPaisley said:


> I would love some advice !
> 
> 
> Any ideas on how to keep the peace and still let her be a kid?



Point out to him that she'll learn fractions when she helps you cook and has to measure ingredients using spoons and cups; microbiology if you make yogurt, keifer, sourdough starter, compost; anatomy and physiology from contact with the animals; household physics: http://science.sbcc.edu/~physics/schapansky/es-home_files/HouseholdPhysics.pdf , etc, etc.

Something as simple as talking about the science behind the change in protein structure when you cook an egg is interesting to children.
My 5y/o granddaughter knows that 3 tsps is the same as 1 TBL, one cup is the same as 4, one-qtr cups because we go through it every time she makes pancakes at my house. I don't think fractions are part of her school curriculum yet


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## jamala

I was a public school teacher for 10 years and then came home to home educate my kids. My oldest will graduate high school in May and junior college in December. My 15 year old starts college in June. Why??? Because they desire to learn and get ahead of the game! My 7 year old loves sciene and history and knows more about them than most high schoolers. But he hates reading! I had to accept that he will read when he is ready, which goes against my professional training and has been hard for me. But in the last few weeks he is turning onto reading so he can read more about science and history without me. We do workbook work for about an hour a day (reading, phonics, math) And free learn all day. He helped me make jam yesterday using reading skills to read directions, math skills to measure and time cooking etc.. So learning happens in life not just formal workbook work. I agree, enjoy your time de schooling, but don't just "run wild". Keep her thinking and learning to love learning!


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## PrettyPaisley

I'm confident in my decision to pull her out of a "formal", gov't run circus. NC is discussing the implementation of a "portfolio" of 36 tests to be administered to with the hope it will prevent mandatory failing of the 3rd grade when the student does not read at the mandated level. *NOTHING* can be said that would make me regret opting out of that insanity. (I'm also confident in my ability to guide her natural ability to learn-I just want to keep the peace around here. ) 

Charlotte Mason has been suggested to me a few times but to be honest, it seems a little stuffy. Really, it seems crazy stuffy. I could be way off base but I checked out a few library books on it and I've got to tell you-we aren't "classical" kinda people.  The more I learn about Montessori the more I am drawn to it - at least for DD2 who turned 4 in November. 

And we do read daily. I understand the importance of reading and being read to with children, and I cherish the quite time cuddled together with them each day.  

Thanks for the ideas. This definitely gives me ideas on how to work with her and find out what floats her boat.


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## jwal10

Is there any monitoring by the state? Since she is not in school now, I would think someone would be checking on her. Here I think the state needs some kind of a plan....James


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## offthegrid

PrettyPaisley said:


> Charlotte Mason has been suggested to me a few times but to be honest, it seems a little stuffy. Really, it seems crazy stuffy. I could be way off base but I checked out a few library books on it and I've got to tell you-we aren't "classical" kinda people.


Charlotte Mason IS stuffy, and it's about as far away from unschooling as you can get. They are truly at the opposite ends of the homeschooling "spectrum"...and luckily there are about 1000 different approaches in between.

Most of my friends use an "eclectic" approach - there is some structure, but it's not anything like Charlotte Mason. There are tons of different types of books and materials you can choose from...and you don't have to subscribe to any particular educational theory like Montessori or Charlotte Mason...or "unschooling" if you don't want to. You can be sort of "unschooly" for language arts (especially if you have a kid who loves to read), but more structured for math...or, the opposite... or it can change during the year.

We all pretty much know what subjects our kids should be learning - language arts, math, science, history, art, music, etc. But there is no rule that says they need to learn in any particular way, in any particular order, etc. You can keep one eye on what the public schools are doing without the pressure to keep up (or slow down) to conform to their structure. That's the benefit of homeschooling.

Enjoy! And remember that learning takes place all day. 

As to whether the state should or shouldn't keep tabs on homeschooled kids, that's up to each state. Some do, some don't.


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## ErinP

I agree with CM seeming stuffy! lol I like using "living books" (at my house we just call them "books"  ) but the rest of it seems a bit much. OTOH, we _are_ rather classical but then, my homeschooler is 14, not 7. 



jwal10 said:


> Is there any monitoring by the state? Since she is not in school now, I would think someone would be checking on her. Here I think the state needs some kind of a plan....James


In most states, a parent has to tell the district they're going to be homeschooling (to avoid any confusion with truancy), but other than that, why would the state need to be involved? 
Is the assumption that the parent is the primary guardian of a child? 
...Or the state?


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## Dupree

We homeschool/unschool our 3 boys. They are 8,6 and 4. My wife taught in public schools for 7 years, got her masters and then we decided for her to stay home with the boys. Well, that evolved into homeschooling. I grew up going to school everyday and I struggled with this for awhile but after learning more about it and going to some unschooling conferences I really accepted the idea and believe it's the right choice for us. I have found that both parents really need to be on the same page otherwise it will sure make it more difficult. Good luck with whatever road you take!!


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## Mme_Pickles

You've received a lot of good advice here already!  Nice to see so much support for homeschooling and such great suggestions!
I just wanted to add that, even with a structured curriculum (we use A Beka), my four children are generally only "in school" for about 2-3hours each day. My youngest is seven and he only has one hour of formal education. He is usually completely done with all of his schoolwork in that time. 
I began giving each student one hour of personal, one-on-one instruction. We go through each of their lessons, making sure they understand what is going on, do more research if wanted/needed, and then they have their "seatwork" which is where they practice what we've just learned. We don't always do every single portion of a lesson. It will be reviewed at some point in subsequent lessons anyway!
We start with my youngest in the morning, then on to the ten year old, the thirteen year old, and my high school freshman goes last. During their siblings' lesson times, each of them is given some sort of task to complete. Sometimes it is just cleaning their room, including putting bed linens and clothes in the laundry. Other times, it may be putting together a special art project.
They really seem to be doing well with this set-up. The true beauty of homeschooling, though, is being able to tailor your child's education to their needs and learning style! They still must follow and obey the rules. They all have learned how to be patient when waiting their turn. They know how to stand in line. The older two know how to properly fill out a question form. (They do their own forms at the doctor's office, under my supervision.) It isn't only in public school settings that children can learn how to "function in today's society". And honestly, how is it "best" for a (insert age here) to learn how to behave properly in society from 30 others of the exact same age??? *shrugs* To each their own!
The best to you in this endeavor! And I wholeheartedly agree with sitting the SO down and talking about what each expects from this. My DH wants visible results, so we do the work pages and throw in some written tests and quizzes. I just love seeing and knowing that children are learning, and I mean truly _learning_ the information, instead of just memorizing something for a test tomorrow. 

ps That was long.... Sorry!


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## Otter

While we homeschool, for my DD, unschooling was a total failure. Me, as a child, if you gave me books and materials and freedom to do - I was an unschooling poster child! I went to regular school, but I was always ahead, because of all that I taught myself on my own time, so I was really eager to go that way with DD.

It was a bust. She didn't want any part of it. All that she wants to teach herself and actually follow through is drawing - and it has taken her 3 years to realize that all the how-to-draw books and videos actually knew what they were talking about and that, and if she tried to follow them, her art improves.
Until I saw it, I could not believe how little a kid could learn if she set her mind to not. Literally could not believe it.

But we still homeschool successfully! 
The beauty of homeschooling is there are as many ways to go about it as there are kids. We do a more formal thing, and I take activities she enjoys and make them more officially school. We do online studies and she does some "classes" with a friend.
If your main problem is with your SO, I would get a grade-appropriate general workbook and however amny pages of homework she's doing now, do about that many pages in the workbook 5 days a week - it should take about 20 minutes, and the rest of the day, experiment and play and see how your kid learns!


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## PrettyPaisley

Thank you ErinP. I've spent the past 24 hours biting my tongue until it bled at the assumption my child needed to be checked in on by a useful idiot from the state. This *is* the homeschooling forum and not the I <3 State Run "Education" forum, right ??


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## offthegrid

PrettyPaisley said:


> Thank you ErinP. I've spent the past 24 hours biting my tongue until it bled at the assumption my child needed to be checked in on by a useful idiot from the state. This *is* the homeschooling forum and not the I <3 State Run "Education" forum, right ??


Well, that is definitely something to get used to, if you're going to homeschool.  People tend to attack in two ways -- first is always the lack of "socialization" -- and if that seems to get answered satisfactorily, they switch gears and start grilling your "credentials"...to teach things like 2nd grade math.  (I hope YOU took notes back in 2nd grade so you'll remember how to do it!)

In general, I try to avoid getting into arguments with people about whether homeschooling should be overseen by the state ed. departments, because it's one of those things that people will argue about for hours without ever giving it any thought. Not worth the hassle.


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## SLFarmMI

PrettyPaisley said:


> Thank you ErinP. I've spent the past 24 hours biting my tongue until it bled at the assumption my child needed to be checked in on by a useful idiot from the state. This *is* the homeschooling forum and not the I <3 State Run "Education" forum, right ??


Well, to be honest, I have not had the best experience with homeschoolers. I've had several children who were returning to public school after being "homeschooled" for various amounts of time from 6 months to up to 2 years. As the teacher consultant at my school, part of my job is assessing these children upon their return to public school to determine academic strengths and weakness. Some of these students were ahead of where they should have been, some were right where they should have been but the vast majority were way behind where they should have been when compared to their peers. Come to find out when I investigated a little further that their "homeschooling" consisted of watching television and/or playing video games. I think we can all agree that that is not homeschooling.

I have great respect for those of you who are actually homeschooling your children as I believe the folks that post here are doing. However, more parents than you may imagine are not putting in the effort to educate their children. Those parents are the ones that have led many states to retain oversight authority over homeschooling.


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## PrettyPaisley

Educated is a subjective term. Give me one of your evaluations and I won't pass 8th grade CC math. And guess what? I couldn't care less what the state thinks of how I get to my answer after being in honors classes in public school for all those years. 

I've spent almost 15 years recovering from the guilt of refusing to sit through an additional four years of indoctrination and a $50k plus debt load to boot. I do not intend to allow the state to screw them up with some monolithic, lockstep pattern from which all children must be punched. I was fed up at 17 with formal education - and you can bet your sweet britches I'm even more fed up at 43 with two kids to protect. I. Do. Not. Need. The. State. to tell me how to raise my children. You may *NOT* have them.


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## KentuckyDreamer

Just a funny; my 68 year old aunt stopped by the other day as DS was working on trapezoids. She laughed saying she was of the age trapezoids no longer mean anything and maybe it was a waste of her time to learn it in the first place. Please do not jump on me, it was just a joke. 
But it does go to show we use so very little of what is deemed "important". I took three semesters of statistics, complete with very expensive calculators. Never once used it on the job.


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## Belfrybat

I have known several families over the years who homeschooled. Some with great success whose children met or surpassed what is expected of children in formal schools (public or private). Others, whose children unfortunately were not taught and "let run wild" so when they were of an age to graduate could not pass the GED or if returning to public school were put in remedial classes. One family stands out in that the mother decided to "homeschool" because she didn't like getting up early in the morning and getting her three children ready to ride the bus. (I am NOT saying this is the case with you.)

By and large children crave structure of some sort. That doesn't mean being rigid, but to allow a child to "run wild" as you suggest at your daughter's age might not be the wisest thing to do. Why not consider a middle ground that perhaps your husband will be more on board with? 2 - 3 hours of formal instruction each day following a curriculum that is similar to what her peers are learning in school, then the rest of the day for more creative activities, including a bit of "running wild". 

This is what the standard in Texas are for homeschooling. BTW, homeschools in Texas are considered private schools, and aren't directly regulated except for broad guidelines. 

To home school legally in Texas, you must follow three state law requirements:


The instruction must be bona fide (i.e., not a sham).
The curriculum must be in visual form (e.g., books, workbooks, video monitor).
The curriculum must include the five basic subjects of reading, spelling, grammar, mathematics, and good citizenship.
I really can't see that these State guidelines are in any way onerous. And the curriculum can certainly be tailored to meet each child's needs and temperament.


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## offthegrid

I have no objection to state oversight for homeschoolers. It is serious business, and I have no problem showing everyone and anyone that we take it seriously. Not to mention, in the future, we will want to know what we did (for college applications, job applications, whatever) and being required to submit reports to the district helps me make sure I keep regular, accurate records. 

And I'm sure there are parents that don't give their kids a worthy education - and that stinks because it makes us all look bad. So, if oversight can help weed out the parents that don't take it seriously...fine. But the reality is that most BAD parents toss their kids in public school, because it's a heck of a lot easier than homeschooling. So...for every sad story about a neglected education through homeschooling, I'm sure you could find 20 similar stories of kids in public school.

What I do object to is the idea that anyone but a "certified" teacher is qualified to teach children. That's just ridiculous. Not only because many homeschooling parents are far more intelligent and educated than their public school counterparts, but the fact that we are only working with a few (two in my case) kids at any given time...so it is very easy to know if they are getting what they need. It does not take a college education to teach one kid math, especially when you don't have to write the textbook yourself.

I have a 10th grader and people question my "qualifications" to teach upper level math and science...as if I am actually standing in front of the room doing everything by myself. That's just not typical for homeschooling high schoolers - I spend a lot of time driving, actually.  To tutors, classes, co-ops, programs, etc. I don't think many people have any idea what homeschooling even "looks like" for most families.

I also hate the anecdotal reports about homeschoolers that return to school and are way below the standards. My friends and I consider these kids to be homeschooling failures - but most public school teachers don't see the success stories, because they DON'T return to public school. Of all my friends that have older kids -- NONE of them have gone back to public school. Some of them have gone to private high schools, some still homeschool, and some started college early. I can't think of anyone that attends a public high school after homeschooling. (My kids do NOT want to go to school!)

If done for the right reasons, homeschooling is a very successful way to educate children. Certainly it can be argued that it is every bit as likely to result in success as the public school system (in fact, I believe the statistics show that homeschoolers tend to fare better than average).


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## ErinP

SLFarmMI said:


> Well, to be honest, I have not had the best experience with homeschoolers. I've had several children who were returning to public school after being "homeschooled" for various amounts of time from 6 months to up to 2 years. As the teacher consultant at my school, part of my job is assessing these children upon their return to public school to determine academic strengths and weakness. Some of these students were ahead of where they should have been, some were right where they should have been but the vast majority were way behind where they should have been when compared to their peers. Come to find out when I investigated a little further that their "homeschooling" consisted of watching television and/or playing video games. I think we can all agree that that is not homeschooling.
> 
> I have great respect for those of you who are actually homeschooling your children as I believe the folks that post here are doing. However, more parents than you may imagine are not putting in the effort to educate their children. Those parents are the ones that have led many states to retain oversight authority over homeschooling.


Actually, I've had those kids in class, also. In fact, way back when, that was part of why I _didn't_ support homeschooling. Then I had the good fortune to move into a community that had a number of homeschoolers (due to our great distance to town, mostly). 
And I learned that most kids that showed up back in school were usually an example of homeschooler failures, essentially. ...And had flunked _back_ into public school. lol So, keep that in mind. 
Kids who are _supposed_ to be back in school, either because they've aged out of what Mom feels comfortable teaching, or because they only had a specific goal to achieve via homeschooling (get a kid caught up from an illness for example) usually fit back in just fine. 

Oversight from the state is rarely _productive_ in the case of homeschool dropouts, and rarely _needed_ for everyone else... It's tends to be a waste of time and money, which is why most states don't bother.
But it makes the busy-bodies feel better.


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## ErinP

offthegrid said:


> Well, that is definitely something to get used to, if you're going to homeschool.  People tend to attack in two ways -- first is always the lack of "socialization" -- and if that seems to get answered satisfactorily, they switch gears and start grilling your "credentials"...to teach things like 2nd grade math.  (I hope YOU took notes back in 2nd grade so you'll remember how to do it!)
> 
> In general, I try to avoid getting into arguments with people about whether homeschooling should be overseen by the state ed. departments, because it's one of those things that people will argue about for hours without ever giving it any thought. Not worth the hassle.


That one comes up a lot for me, that of "qualified." I rarely hear the socialization one, probably because at 14, my homeschooler is pretty much as socialized as he's going to get. lol
But I frequently hear, "Well at least you're qualified to teach!" 
Well, sort of. I'm a grade school teacher and he's an 8th grader. Granted, Nebraska still has a country-school certificate so elementary teachers can teach up to 8th in a self-contained school, but I'm definitely on the top of end of what college taught me. lol 
But more importantly, the only thing being a class room teacher ever really did for me, so far as homeschooing goes, is give me the confidence that I'm capable of doing this. I'm quick to point out that teaching a homeschool is actually more like _parenting_ than it is teaching. :shrug:



> I can't think of anyone that attends a public high school after homeschooling.


I can. I know quite a few, actually. 
And, _to a one_, they've all been at the top end of their graduating class, active in sports/music/etc, and basically an example of the success of homeschool.


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## Lisa in WA

offthegrid said:


> I can't think of anyone that attends a public high school after homeschooling. (My kids do NOT want to go to school!)
> 
> If done for the right reasons, homeschooling is a very successful way to educate children. Certainly it can be argued that it is every bit as likely to result in success as the public school system (in fact, I believe the statistics show that homeschoolers tend to fare better than average).


My daughter went on to high school after homeschooling (her choice) and graduated second in her class and is now a freshman in a top 50 ranked college. She ultimately had to take most of her classes in the high school library online through the state to get the AP and dual credit classes she wanted but to her the experience was valuable as a stepping stone between homeschool and going away to college. We used the Calvert School curriculum and it was absolutely wonderful...covered everything and then some and we finished daily lessons in just a few hours.


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## PrettyPaisley

Belfrybat said:


> I have known several families over the years who homeschooled. Some with great success whose children met or surpassed what is expected of children in formal schools (public or private). Others, whose children unfortunately were not taught and "let run wild" so when they were of an age to graduate could not pass the GED or if returning to public school were put in remedial classes. One family stands out in that the mother decided to "homeschool" because she didn't like getting up early in the morning and getting her three children ready to ride the bus. (I am NOT saying this is the case with you.)
> 
> By and large children crave structure of some sort. That doesn't mean being rigid, but to allow a child to "run wild" as you suggest at your daughter's age might not be the wisest thing to do. Why not consider a middle ground that perhaps your husband will be more on board with? 2 - 3 hours of formal instruction each day following a curriculum that is similar to what her peers are learning in school, then the rest of the day for more creative activities, including a bit of "running wild".
> 
> This is what the standard in Texas are for homeschooling. BTW, homeschools in Texas are considered private schools, and aren't directly regulated except for broad guidelines.
> 
> To home school legally in Texas, you must follow three state law requirements:
> 
> 
> The instruction must be bona fide (i.e., not a sham).
> The curriculum must be in visual form (e.g., books, workbooks, video monitor).
> The curriculum must include the five basic subjects of reading, spelling, grammar, mathematics, and good citizenship.
> I really can't see that these State guidelines are in any way onerous. And the curriculum can certainly be tailored to meet each child's needs and temperament.


Unschooling her through the summer will NOT set her back 10 years. I am simply letting her be a kid, 100%, inside out and upside down for the next several months. She has so much energy and she deserves to play. I will not break her spirit and force her to sit still and memorize test material. Not now, not tomorrow - not at all. I've already said I intend to research and settle on some sort of curriculm - I'm just not forcing it on her now. And they are not allowed TV when I am home and are given limited time on the tablet (we don't do video games-don't even have a system on which to play games). 

But we will have to disagree with our opinion on what the state should be allowed to require. You see, I was born a free soul - who was put here to live free and prosper as long as it doesn't impede on someone else's same right. So while you think it's the duty of the state to force my child to be educated in a way that the majority says is acceptable - I say I cannot be forced to teach her to spell her name if I don't agree with it. I say there shouldn't be any sort of state regulate education system - and SURELY not federal (think Common Core). I say that as a free woman, if I choose to fly through a windshield because I don't want to wear my seatbelt-that is MY business. Not your business .. not the business of the state. And along with that - I don't feel entitled to assistance from an EMT. While that may seem extreme ... allowing for grey area has caused us to swing far too far to the left and with that has come a serious compromise of our god given rights.


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## PrettyPaisley

And don't even get me started on socialization. Forced assimilation is NOT socializing. Some of the stuff that rubbed on off her when she was around all those different kids was scary.


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## offthegrid

ErinP said:


> I can. I know quite a few, actually.
> And, _to a one_, they've all been at the top end of their graduating class, active in sports/music/etc, and basically an example of the success of homeschool.


Actually I should have clarified - I know there are many homeschoolers that go back to public high school and do very well.

I only meant that many successful "homeschoolers" never go back at all...or go back to private school. So there may be an disproportionate number of "unsuccessful" homeschoolers that return to public school - simply because people that love it, and find it successful may just keep on doing it.

I live in a suburb of a medium large city - so the idea of homeschooling, and throwing kids back into a high school with 1000 kids per grade is just not very appealing, and a lot of homeschooling families don't go that route. I do have a friend that is moving to a smaller town and may send her daughter to high school there. 

As for "socialization"....it's not even the same as "socializing"...and I agree that forced assimilation is neither.  My kids feel that they have MORE friends now that they homeschool versus when they were in school with lots of other kids.


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## Wendy

> Unschooling her through the summer will NOT set her back 10 years.


Most kids don't go to school during the summer anyway, so how could it set her back?


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## Becka03

I have not read all the replies yet- but I promise I will- I wanted to respond with out being influenced- 
I get what you want- her to enjoy being 7! My mom made sure we were playing and kids at 7- and I understand your DHs ideas too- she needs school in his mind-
can you find a happy meeting place? Like half day homeschooling?
I don't homeschool so I am not familiar with the curriculum part- but what about a cooking class- heck baking to a 7 yr old is FUN! and it would teach her science and measuring- 
Teaching her some sort of fiber art? sewing, crocheting or knitting? that would be like the homeec- and have her make gifts for people with the craft she learns- working in a budgeting lesson- on how making gifts- saves money- to purchase the stuff for the baking lessons?
and gym class- I know I see online locally here- the YMCA has swimming for homeschooled kids?

just trying to make learning fun?


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## MDKatie

PrettyPaisley said:


> Thank you ErinP. I've spent the past 24 hours biting my tongue until it bled at the assumption my child needed to be checked in on by a useful idiot from the state. This *is* the homeschooling forum and not the I <3 State Run "Education" forum, right ??


It'd be really great if there was a way to support what you prefer (homeschooling OR public education) without bashing the other. 




PrettyPaisley said:


> Unschooling her through the summer will NOT set her back 10 years.


Your original quote said almost a year, so perhaps that caused some confusion for people. :shrug:



PrettyPaisley said:


> the idea of her free ranging for almost a year


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## PrettyPaisley

Wendy said:


> Most kids don't go to school during the summer anyway, so how could it set her back?


 
From now until through the summer. From January until end of August. 9 months. Almost a year, right ?


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## PrettyPaisley

MDKatie said:


> It'd be really great if there was a way to support what you prefer (homeschooling OR public education) without bashing the other.


Totally agree. Or insinuating someone from the state needs to check in on my kid because I don't have a degree in teaching.


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## Belfrybat

PrettyPaisley said:


> *Unschooling her through the summer will NOT set her back 10 years. *I am simply letting her be a kid, 100%, inside out and upside down for the next several months. She has so much energy and she deserves to play. *I will not break her spirit and force her to sit still and memorize test material.* Not now, not tomorrow - not at all. I've already said I intend to research and settle on some sort of curriculm - I'm just not forcing it on her now. And they are *not allowed TV* when I am home and are given limited time on the tablet (we don't do video games-don't even have a system on which to play games).
> 
> But we will have to disagree with our opinion on what the state should be allowed to require. You see, I was born a free soul - who was put here to live free and prosper as long as it doesn't impede on someone else's same right. So while *you think it's the duty of the state to force my child to be educated *in a way that the majority says is acceptable - I say I cannot be forced to teach her to spell her name if I don't agree with it. I say there shouldn't be any sort of state regulate education system - and SURELY not federal (think Common Core). I say that as a free woman, if I choose to fly through a windshield because I don't want to wear my seatbelt-that is MY business. *Not your business .. not the business of the state*. And along with that - *I don't feel entitled to assistance from an EMT*. While that may seem extreme ... allowing for grey area has caused us to swing far too far to the left and with that has come a serious compromise of our god given rights.


Why are you attacking me? I DID NOT say any of the above items in bold. You are way overreacting and apparently letting your anger dictate your behavior towards your child. And unfortunately your daughter will probably suffer for it. I gave you the guidelines used in Texas to show you how _unobtrusive and broad they are,_ not to dictate anything to you. It's a pity because you have received a lot of good ideas in this thread but are apparently so angry and reactive that you won't or can't hear what people are saying.


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## PrettyPaisley

I am not attacking you. 

I asked for and was given many fabulous ideas. I was also given ridiculous grief from those who think someone from the state needs to come check on my daughter. My disgust with that line of thinking will not cause my children to suffer. That is absurd. 

I did not come here to get angry. I mistakenly thought that in this forum I would not get flack for my decision to take my daughter out of school. Instead I am questioned on how I define "letting her be a kid", my words intentionally misunderstood (because I guess "almost a year" and "through the summer" don't mean the same thing to everyone else as they do to me) and given examples of children who fall behind the gov't standard because they get to play video games all day long. 

So if someone was an attacked .... I'd say it wasn't you. 

Regardless ... being attacked does not negate the positive information that was shared. Being attacked does not render me incapable of reading, comprehending and implementing. No pity needed.


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## Wendy

PrettyPaisley said:


> Thank you ErinP. I've spent the past 24 hours biting my tongue until it bled at the assumption my child needed to be checked in on by a useful idiot from the state. This *is* the homeschooling forum and not the I <3 State Run "Education" forum, right ??


 

Actually, this is not just a homeschooling forum.





> This is not only for homeschoolers, but for people who have children in public/private school, people who are returning to college, people who are looking to learn more about homestead topics, anything educational.


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## Wendy

I think I will close this now as you seem to have been given enough info.


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