# Tactical rifle options?



## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

I am attempting to narrow down a few choices for deciding on the purchase of a tactical/hunting rifle - as of now, I am considering:

-Winchester Model 70
-Remington Model 700
-Kimber Model 84

I would appreciate any input as to why I should pick one over another. Also any features I should make sure to include in a purchase.

I am by no means a firearms expert, but the research I've done so far has listed all of these models as top choices for the past few years. I'd like it to pull double-duty as home defense and hunting. 

Feel free to recommend another manufacturer if you think it is warranted.

+++a bonus question: what optics would you pair with rifle?

Thanks in advance,
Ty


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Just a personal opinion here as to the purpose of the guns I have for hunting vs tactical... 

I see you are looking at only bolt actions. Those are slow fire hunting weapons. To me, this isn't a tactical home defense weapon. For me, tactical means short stock, short barrel, and semi-auto, and able to hold at least 10 rounds, preferably more to take a lot of un-accurate shots with if need be.

To me, tactical is something short you can hold close to you, and be able to swing around in an enclosed room. Something I can let loose with a lot of rounds at once, to cause someone to keep their head down, or when having to chase a fast moving target.

Bolt action long guns are something you want to use to take your time with for a long shot with accuracy. They aren't something you want to be using in a close up fight.

That's just my personal preference between tactical and hunting... This is why I own an SKS with a folding stock and detachable magazines, and a Mauser. One for accuracy, one for defense.

If you really want to break it down in my mind, tactical is a marketing term usually meaning military style


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

BTW, with that said, I"d probably end up with the Remington but I also like Winchester. I don't know much about Kimber, but I do know I'm not fond of their 1911's.


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

Good point - they all just list those rifles under "specialty/tactical" now since they are commonly 'kitted out' and used for law enforcement/military.

I would also add that I would differentiate a 'proper' tactical rifle as intended for approx. 200m +/- encounters. For this option, I am leaning toward AR15 or M4, but am not yet ready to make that purchase - for the time being, I have a Mossberg for home defense.

So let's say this rifle is for long distance/hunting.

Kimber seems to be becoming more popular due to ruggedness, simplicity, and reliability. But Remington and Winchester have the edge on customization options.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

You can do some serious long distance shooting with an AR-15.. I'm talking 500m and more... I worked with a guy that shot competition with them, and was deadly accurate at those kinds of ranges.. He shot 1000 yard competitions a lot. So maybe that might change your thinking on what you want to get maybe?

If you are set on a bolt, which I believe every hunter should have at least one of, I'd personally go with the Remington... They are just so hard to beat for machining tolerances and accuracy... Bang for the buck, you can't buy a much better gun in my eyes. That's reason it's one of the most popular hunting rifles you can buy.


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## rags57078 (Jun 11, 2011)

I have a savage model 10 in a .223 , with factory rounds 5 shots has a 3/4 moa . once I start reloading I will have that at 200 yrds


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## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

weatherby vanguard rifles are best bang for your buck just bought one in 223 for $329 . remington 700's are great rifles hard to find at a decent price . ruger m 77 is a great rifle as well


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

Depends what your looking for a 5.56 is not a long distance killing weapon. Yes, they can kill at 500+ yards, but look at what the muzzle energy is. A AK and AR to me are 200 and less weapons that work well at that distance and less. I would go with something in the 7mm and larger range.

Yes, there is going to be those who disagree with me, but when I'm using a rifle for hunting or protection I want a lot of muzzle energy to deal with the situation.

Bob


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

kycrawler said:


> weatherby vanguard rifles are best bang for your buck just bought one in 223 for $329 . remington 700's are great rifles hard to find at a decent price . ruger m 77 is a great rifle as well


You can pick up a 700 in .308 with a Burris scope, synthetic stock and sling for about $650 at Gander Mountain... For the quality you're getting and the extra's that's not a bad price at all... 

I agree too about the .223 and stopping power out past 2 to 300m... Hence my Mauser 7mm...


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

Also take a look at the Tikka T3 or a Savage with the Accu-Trigger both guns have good reputations.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> So let's say this rifle is for long distance/hunting.


 
What are you hunting?

It won't make much difference in the rifle, but it will in the cartridge.
(I'd go with the Remington 700)


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Nothing beats accurate half mile shots (if your real good) with a bolt action... reach out and take down zombies from a distance. When the horde gets up close and personal, I'd sling the bolt and pull down either an AR15 or an AK and go with firepower.

Imho, firearms are like tools... right tool for the job is always a good idea. I have a lot of hammers... I don't try to drive t-posts with a staple hammer, or hammer tacks with a sixteen pound sledge. Don't even get me started on the hundreds of different screwdrivers.

As far as brand, go with what you know. Seeing as I already have a Winchester Model 70, and know how to adjust it all, I'd go with another one. Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge...


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

savage makes a very nice bolt rifle 

savage has some in their law enforcement line that have higher capacity box mags 

as for optics Nikon has been good for my uses but i have not used their hi power line above 9x , and it is just plain hard to go wrong with a Leupold with their life time warranty


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

For the money Savage is one of the best buys. They are the most accurate rifle out of the box.

Bob


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I want a semiautomatic for defence. Nothing like being able to pepper the bushes with bullets to discourage the bad guys. I have not tried the SKS yet but the Remington 7400 is fairly good at long range. With no practice I was able to put all the bullets into a 5 inch circle at 200 yards. I am not likely to be bumping off zombies at that distance, or more, because how do I know they have evil intentions?

If you have your heart set on a bolt action I reccomend the Browning A-Bolt with BOSS. I have an A-Bolt Medallion (fancier gun than standard) with the BOSS in really good condition. I picked it up used from a pawn shop for $500. The barrell is free floating and the BOSS is a weight that can be adjusted to dampen the vibrations of the barrell. This thing drives tacks. It's more accurate than I can utilise. It is a beautiful gun. Rosewood caps on the forend and grip, engraving, and a figured piece of wood.

Keep in mind that you have to practice (oh darn) to be really good. Cheaper ammo means more practice so chose the caliber with that in mind as well as the purpose of the gun. My 30-06 cartridges cost between $.50 and a doller each so practice gets pricey real fast.


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## WoodTick (Oct 16, 2012)

The truth is while rapid fire is an advantage to a semi-auto it is also a way to run out of ammo quickly if your fire is not aimed. I own semi-auto rifles, lever action, and bolt action rifles and like any other tool, Texican is right you must pick the right one for the job. 

I have my bolt action rifle for precision shoting at ranges over 100 yards out to the limit of my capabilities, which is probably about 300 yards. One of my semi autos is a military style rifle and my thought for that is within 100 yards it would be ideal for self defense against "Marauding Hordes." 

Even with a semi-auto though aimed fire is important. I do agree that a quick volly of 8 or 10 rounds could discourage a group of ne'er do wells. But if not, a couple well aimed shots dropping a couple of them may be even further encouragement for them to go and be marauders somewhere else. 

To be brutally honest though folks, I hope I never have to even point a gun at someone, let alone shoot them. But the facts are if I find myself or my loved ones in peril I will do whatever I need to to insure a positive outcome for us. ,


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## reluctantpatriot (Mar 9, 2003)

Production methods have changed and now it is possible to obtain semiautomatics that are just as accurate as bolt actions even if they are slightly more expensive. That being said, planning to fire warning shots instead of threat stoppers is legally ill-advised. If one is needing fast follow up shot capability, then a semiauto action is better than even a pump action. It also does not require both hands or arms to function for operation in the case of having one limb taken out of action.

I have a Windham Weaponry SRC AR-15 with a flattop upper and gas block that allows me to put foldable backup battle sights on it plus still have the ability to swap out a red dot, short range scope or long range scope as needed. I can also swap out the upper receiver for various other calibers so that the same lower can be used and thus have a multiuse firearm. All it takes is swapping out the upper receiver assembly and sometimes a magazine to change calibers.

This allows me to only need to customize the lower to my liking once and then change calibers for hunting or self-defense scenarios as needed. Depending upon hunting regulations, I could use the same upper receiver assembly to hunt with as for self-defense, though I might want to swap out what ammo I have in the magwell.

Don't get me wrong, I love bolt actions and I have a Savage .270 for deer hunting or precision shooting. However, I would go to the AR-15 for self defense due to its adjustable buttstock, 16 inch barrel and ability to swap out optics and sights easily as well as load task specific mags of ammo.

Given that the sheriffs office uses AR-15s with 55 grain Hornady TAP rounds for duty, I go with that for home defense use as well. I can control it with two to five tap strings as needed or take my time and place shots accurately one round at a time.

Statisically one will engage threats at 100 yards or less more often than beyond that range. In the majority of cases, legally one is not "fearing for one's life" if the engagement is beyond a short distance, more than 10 yards more or less. I say most because generally one is being attacked within 21 feet (7 yards). Unless one is in law enforcement or the military, most of us are NOT going to be defending ourselves where we have to use 20 power scopes and .300 Winchester Magnum chambered rifles or similar.

If one is worried about bears, I would put a .458 SOCOM upper on my AR-15 and be happy. If one needs something with a little less penetration, I would step it down to 6.8mm SPC II or .30 AR. However, I would be just as happy with the 5.56x45 NATO upper that is on it so long as I use the right ammo for the task.


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## unioncreek (Jun 18, 2002)

I reload al my rifle rounds, way cheaper than buying even when you figure in the cost of reloading equipment. The last time I figured my cost I was at less than a quarter of retail. 

Bob


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

unioncreek said:


> I reload al my rifle rounds, way cheaper than buying even when you figure in the cost of reloading equipment. The last time I figured my cost I was at less than a quarter of retail.
> 
> Bob


that's because w/ the loaded rounds you're paying for all of it to be shipped three times or more, & the guys that actually work on the assembly process & their managers & the 401k & the health insurnace for them.


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## Forestdude (Jun 9, 2012)

I agree with the above posts about what you expect this gun to do for you. If you already have a Mossberg (assuming shotgun) for home defense, then you got that covered (though a sidearm to compliment that would be even better). *If you're looking for a long-range rifle, what do you plan on shooting with it? * 

I have a Rem Model 700 .270 for hunting deer/hogs here in LA. It's not "tactical" by any means. It's got a scope and a sling on it. It's reliable and accurate. It serves it's purpose. That being said, if I moved out to Idaho and started hunting elk, I'd be looking for a bigger gun. 

If I was going to buy a "tactical" rifle to be used for home defense and/or hunting, I personally would get an AR style .308. That's just me and would suit my expectations for the gun.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

my perfect rifle would be a AR10 clone in 358 Winchester , I know very obscure cartridge but the parent case is 308 there are so many good 35 caliber bullets and who can argue with 250 gr of lead at 2200 fps 

but if your planing to purchase ammo absolutely go with a common cartridge like 308 30-06 

it really is hard to go wrong with a 30-06 from 130 gr to 180 gr it will take most anything in north America


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Forestdude said:


> I have a Rem Model 700 .270 for hunting deer/hogs here in LA. It's not "tactical" by any means. It's got a scope and a sling on it. It's reliable and accurate. It serves it's purpose. *That being said, if I moved out to Idaho and started hunting elk, I'd be looking for a bigger gun*.


why? the 270 will take everything that walks in north america, and you're already comfortable w/ it.


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## KMA1 (Dec 9, 2006)

Well I am going to say that "tactical" is just a buzz word right now. For any fight you have to change tactics at different distances. At over 200 yards, my tactic will be something that each shot is a kill. That is a good quality rifle that shoots a large bullet at a flat trajectory with enough energy to do the job at 500+ yards. I like 7 mm and .30 calliber myself, which are very good hunting rifles with a quality scope. If I were buying today, it would probably be another Weatherby Vanguard. I bought mine 33 years ago. At that time there was no comparison between the the action of Remington 700 ADL or the new Winchester 70, to that of the Weatherby Vanguard. I dpon't have a single complaint with my rifle after 33 years of use and lots of compliments. Today you can get one at Walmarts cheaper than I paid for mine 33 years ago. By the way, the magnums shoot flatter with more umph at the end than standard chambrs, though the ammo is pricier, specially if you don't reload.

I will also say htat the R 700's and the W.70's of today are not the rifles they were 35 years ago. More options and plastic stocks can't make up the difference inside.


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## Forestdude (Jun 9, 2012)

Pops2 said:


> why? the 270 will take everything that walks in north america, and you're already comfortable w/ it.


I guess I tend to assume much:lookout:I stand corrected, you're right. After doing a little search, I saw that the .270 is a popular rifle for elk, moose and bear (w/150 gr.). I never knew, I assumed that a larger chunk of lead would be preferable for animals that large.:shrug:

Speaking of hunting...what am I doing here...It's a beautiful evening and I think squirrels would be dying to jump in the fry pan


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

Buy a Savage .308 with a good scope and either an AR or Ak and be done with it.You are'nt going to find a "dual purpose" long range or "tactical" firearm without spending a lot more than the 2 I mentioned would cost.....If you want a firearm that CAN give MOA out to 500yds AND is good for upclose-2 that I know off-M240(175-200K0or an H&K21E(25-35K)both will astound you with their grouping.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Forestdude said:


> I guess I tend to assume much:lookout:I stand corrected, you're right. After doing a little search, I saw that the .270 is a popular rifle for elk, moose and bear (w/150 gr.). I never knew, I assumed that a larger chunk of lead would be preferable for animals that large.:shrug:
> 
> Speaking of hunting...what am I doing here...It's a beautiful evening and I think squirrels would be dying to jump in the fry pan


i know a lot of people don't bother to go on those dream hunts because they think they have to go buy a bunch of stuff. or they miss an opportunity by using a huge new gun they're aren't as accurate with. so if you get the chance feel free to bring that 270 out west and drop a good bull.
by all means if you need an excuse to tell the wife for buying a new gun an elk/moose rifle is a GREAT reason to buy a nice 35 whelan or a 358 winchester (or even a nice 405 lever action).


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

I have owned 2 Rem 700 BDL .270 and .22-250 for 45 plus years and taken several deer and other things with each of them. They're accurate and reliable, I have used them hard and have no complaints. Wouldn't hesitate to buy another, but wouldn't trade either for a new one.


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## Malamute (Sep 15, 2011)

I think your on the right track, you have a shotgun that will work for home protection, get a decent hunting rifle. If you want more flexibilty with it, get one that has iron sights for backup/close range, or get what you like and have sights put on it. I've had good sights put on several rifles.

I think magazine capacity is over rated. Cooper commented on that once, he said "large capacity magazines are great,...if you miss a lot". Our needs as individuals is not the same as that of a military unit working with other guys, against a group of other guys. "Suppresive fire" gives your guys time to work around someone, its a group tactic. I'm a believer in shooting to make hits, not noise and wasting ammo.


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## lonelytree (Feb 28, 2008)

Tikka T3 in 30-06.


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## catalekid (Jan 23, 2011)

If something can go wrong, it will. That being said, I would prefer any firearm to be as trouble free as possible if I intend to use it for defense. For me, I want a long, non-rotating claw extractor and a mechanical ejector. The rifles that include these features are Mauser 98s and their clones, newer Rugers and pre 64 style model 70 Winchesters. In your case I would look at the Ruger Gunsite Scout rilfe.

On the other handm, a good old Winchester 94 can be quite formidable in the hands of an experienced user.

Regardless of your decision buy a LOT of ammo and practice, practice, PRACTICE. Get to know your rifle's capabilities and you capabilities with it.

And one more thing, if you decide to put a scope on it, DO NOT cheap out! You will get exactly what you pay for. It is not a matter of IF but a matter of WHEN a cheap scope will let you down.


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## Halfway (Nov 22, 2010)

lonelytree said:


> Tikka T3 in 30-06.


Exactly!

Light weight.
Accurate.
Minimal moving parts.
Easy to maintain.
Durable.
Magazine fed. Buy plenty!

All the essential qualities of a tactical work horse if needed.
:rock:


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## Owldancer (Jun 24, 2010)

Halfway what is the largest mag for the Tikka T3 and where can you get it?


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