# Covid deaths will hit 60,000



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Even with all the shutdowns, we will hit this number today. I can't even imagine what would have happened if measures had not been taken. I feel for the medical staff in the areas that have been overwhelmed and are working so hard.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Tragic numbers. The medical staff have sacrificed so much. They really are the heroes in this time.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

With half of those being falsely attributed.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

And thousands of deaths not yet attributed and counted. False comfort is no comfort.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

And thousands of deaths not yet attributed and counted. False comfort is no comfort.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

The naysayers are now the down players.


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

What we have done is set ourselves up for a massive second wave this winter.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Just like the unemployment adder is keeping people home, the coronavirus relief legislation created a 20% premium, or add-on, for COVID-19 Medicare patients makes it more profitable to charge the patient with C-19


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

A bit of hype in the OP. Our number of deaths per million is much lower than many other çountries. Put into perspective, the number of deaths would be the population of 1 rather small city.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There is no hype. We have that many Covid deaths. It may be lower per capital than other countries but it is not hype. It is how many recorded covid deaths in this country. It is a horrible number.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

painterswife said:


> There is no hype. We have that many Covid deaths. It may be lower per capital than other countries but it is not hype. It is how many recorded covid deaths in this country. It is a horrible number.


Yup it is still 60,000 human beings who are no longer alive. They were fathers, sons, aunt, friends, mentors to someone.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

We won't know the true number until all the testing is done.


----------



## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

HDRider said:


> With half of those being falsely attributed.


With half the cases not reported.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

I can't get the charts to copy legibly. But I personally would throw out the stats from places like San Marino, Monsterrat (where ever that is). So rate per million people is not always best indicator

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

101pigs said:


> With half the cases not reported.


All the deaths are reported


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

It seems rather exploitative to continuously use the deaths of people as fodder for thread subject matter.
Some people will do anything for attention.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I added population density. Still no clear pattern.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> View attachment 86644
> 
> 
> https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html


It’s nice that you use links back to actual sources and don’t seem to expect us to believe that you just magically know more than everyone else.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

keenataz said:


> Yup it is still 60,000 human beings who are no longer alive. They were fathers, sons, aunt, friends, mentors to someone.


They are harsh but what can be done? BC has quite well well but it if Alberta can't catch a break, things are going to fall apart fast. Calgary/High River and Brooks areas are ugly and showing no sign of improvement until the shut down the meat plants, with our food supply being considered a very essential service. 

I would also wonder what Ft. Mac numbers will look like by the end of next week. It isn't enough that they've been burned out of their homes but unprecedented flooding has forced a large part of the city out of self isolation and into evacuation centres.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> It’s nice that you use links back to actual sources and don’t seem to expect *us to believe that you just magically know more than everyone else*.


It does take time


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Many more will die before this is over.
I'll wait for the real numbers at the end of all this.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Many more will die before this is over.
> I'll wait for the real numbers at the end of all this.


It will come back forever. It will not end. You will, but it won't.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Lisa in WA said:


> It seems rather exploitative to continuously use the deaths of people as fodder for thread subject matter.
> Some people will do anything for attention.


It seems to be a pattern.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> There is no hype. We have that many Covid deaths. It may be lower per capital than other countries but it is not hype. It is how many recorded covid deaths in this country. It is a horrible number.


About 3 million people die in the US every year and many of those are elderly people and many with severe health issues and many of those would have died this year anyway.. Those are the same people hit hardest by the virus. We won't know until next year after the yearly death total to have a good idea how much this virus impacted out death numbers. If the number is still around 3 million, the virus didn't make much difference. If the total is about 3,060,000, then we can pretty well assume the virus killed 60,000 people who would not have died anyway.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...covid-19-death-toll-undercounted/?arc404=true

"In the early weeks of the coronavirus epidemic, the United States recorded an estimated 15,400 excess deaths, nearly two times as many as were publicly attributed to covid-19 at the time, according to an analysis of federal data conducted for The Washington Post by a research team led by the Yale School of Public Health."


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I understand and it's ok if the number of dead from corvid 19 scares you and you don't want to hear it.
The problem is if we don't know the numbers we're ignorant.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> I understand and it's ok if the number of dead from corvid 19 scares you and you don't want to hear it.





SRSLADE said:


> The problem is if we don't know the numbers we're ignorant.


We can all find the numbers for ourselves.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wr said:


> They are harsh but what can be done? BC has quite well well but it if Alberta can't catch a break, things are going to fall apart fast. Calgary/High River and Brooks areas are ugly and showing no sign of improvement until the shut down the meat plants, with our food supply being considered a very essential service.
> 
> I would also wonder what Ft. Mac numbers will look like by the end of next week. It isn't enough that they've been burned out of their homes but unprecedented flooding has forced a large part of the city out of self isolation and into evacuation centres.


Tough situation. Especially with the meat processing plants. Damned if you do and ...

My daughter lives in Grande Prairie and I do worry about her


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I like the numbers.
I may forget to look them up and this helps me realize how grim a situation we're in.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> It seems rather exploitative to continuously use the deaths of people as fodder for thread subject matter.
> Some people will do anything for attention.


I don't see factual information as being exploitive


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

SRSLADE said:


> I like the numbers.
> I may forget to look them up and this helps me realize how grim a situation we're in.


And according to some they are meaningless. To me it is just a fact. Obviously, facts can be used for propoganda. But in itself it is not good or bad.

It can be looked at as a positive if some want. Because of the extreme measures much less than the earlier predictions have died.

I don't think it makes 60,000 dead better or worse. Just a fact

Now the human beings behind the tragedy-that matters


----------



## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

Want a real dose of covid19 reality, listen to today's episode of Fresh Air on NPR. (public radio).


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> Even with all the shutdowns, we ill hit this number today. I can't even imagine what would have happened if measures had not been taken. I feel for the medical staff in the areas that have been overwhelmed and are working so hard.


Any death is sad. Keep in mind that 480,000 deaths were linked to smoking (including 2nd hand smoke) in 2019 in the USA. That’s a 100% preventable problem that would not wreck the economy. Of course our medical system has had time to adjust to handle the business. Stop this problem and free up the hospitals and resources for other uses, such as current and future covid issues. Just one example. Seems this country has some serious issues with priority’s.


Edit. Keep in mind this is a long known problem and its allowed and accepted. But many of us cannot work because we might catch covid and overwhelm a hospital.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> I don't see factual information as being exploitive


There are many threads already on this exact topic.



keenataz said:


> *Obviously*, facts can be used for propoganda.


Obviously.
There have been many threads about that too.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

We seem to have had a miraculous decrease in all other causes of death! Don’t make a habit of gullibility.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

macmad said:


> We seem to have had a miraculous *decrease* in all other causes of death!


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/20...ch-2020-actually-15-average-prior-four-years/


> This Is Strange: Total US Deaths in March 2020 are Actually Down 15% from Average of Prior Four Years


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> I like the numbers.
> I may forget to look them up and this helps me realize how grim a situation we're in.


A celebration of death?


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Honoring the dead so they won't be forgotten.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)




----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I'm glad we agree it is sad when we treat others as less than human. SAD.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

If you were referencing me, my icon was crying from laughing. Loss of life is tragic. Profiting from it by mislabeling the cause deserves the harshest penalties.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Redlands Okie said:


> Any death is sad. Keep in mind that 480,000 deaths were linked to smoking (including 2nd hand smoke) in 2019 in the USA. That’s a 100% preventable problem that would not wreck the economy. Of course our medical system has had time to adjust to handle the business. Stop this problem and free up the hospitals and resources for other uses, such as current and future covid issues. Just one example. Seems this country has some serious issues with priority’s.
> 
> 
> Edit. Keep in mind this is a long known problem and its allowed and accepted. But many of us cannot work because we might catch covid and overwhelm a hospital.


And yet 60,000 people are still dead from the virus.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

macmad said:


> If you were referencing me, my icon was crying from laughing. Loss of life is tragic. Profiting from it by mislabeling the cause deserves the harshest penalties.


Well since that is not happening, you don't have to worry about that.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

That number is a lie. Do a bit of search. You will find reasons for them.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

macmad said:


> That number is a lie. Do a bit of search. You will find reasons for them.


Nope you claimed, you provide the proof,

Until then, what you are saying is not true


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

Keep telling yourself that.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The picture changes dramatically if you take out NY state from US numbers. Why is NY suffering such high numbers? They rank worst than anyone shown here in number of deaths. It has to be a proximity issue.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Just saw an interview that the main topic is more exposure to the virus. The more people you are exposed to that have it, the sicker you will be. The second person in the house will be sicker and the third even more.

I think they said it was similar to how chicken pox operates as a virus.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Interesting


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Just saw an interview that the main topic is more exposure to the virus. The more people you are exposed to that have it, the sicker you will be. The second person in the house will be sicker and the third even more.
> 
> I think they said it was similar to how chicken pox operates as a virus.


CNN or MSNBC?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

keenataz said:


> And yet 60,000 people are still dead from the virus.


How many of them would be alive if resources were available to them instead of being used elsewhere. 

The world was not shut down over other respiratory illness with similar if not worse statistics and death counts. Yet the world still turns. Perspective seems to be getting twisted around.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> Just saw an interview that the main topic is more exposure to the virus. The more people you are exposed to that have it, the sicker you will be. The second person in the house will be sicker and the third even more.
> 
> I think they said it was similar to how chicken pox operates as a virus.


I don’t think it’s more people you’re exposed to, its more VIRUS (infectious dose) you are exposed to which is why medical workers are at such risk of severe illness.
A high infectious dose may lead to a higher viral load, which can impact the severity of Covid-19 symptoms.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

.


HDRider said:


> The picture changes dramatically if you take out NY state from US numbers. Why is NY suffering such high numbers? They rank worst than anyone shown here in number of deaths. It has to be a proximity issue.
> 
> View attachment 86658


And yet New York is part of he US, so they count.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> I don’t think it’s more people you’re exposed to, its more VIRUS (infectious dose) you are exposed to.
> A high infectious dose may lead to a higher viral load, which can impact the severity of Covid-19 symptoms.


Thanks, you explained that better than I did.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

We are now over 60,000 deaths.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Redlands Okie said:


> How many of them would be alive if resources were available to them instead of being used elsewhere.
> 
> The world was not shut down over other respiratory illness with similar if not worse statistics and death counts. Yet the world still turns. Perspective seems to be getting twisted around.


Well we can never know, But I will guess a good majority would not have died from the virus if they didn't have it. Not sure what resources you are referring to.

As far as your second statement. I don't know many respiratory illnesses that have killed 60 thousand in 4-5 weeks like this. Considering the measures taken to protect people. How many would have died if things were left wide open?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

keenataz said:


> .
> 
> And yet New York is part of he US, so they count.


And to make the point even harder for you to understand, if you take the metro area of NYC out, it makes the US look blessed. NYC is the most infected area in the world.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> And to make the point even harder for you to understand, if you take the metro area of NYC out, it makes the US look blessed. NYC is the most infected area in the world.


I understand what you are saying. You want to remove an inconvenient fact to make you feel better. But you can't. And no even taking those numbers out does not make the US look blessed.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

It's hard to compare this pandemic to any other illness as we don't yet have the final numbers of deaths.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SRSLADE said:


> It's hard to compare this pandemic to any other illness as we don't yet have the final numbers of deaths.


Agreed. This may just the beginning stage of a pandemic that continues for many years and millions of deaths befor it's over. Keeping score isn't solving the problem. We need to find a cure. Then play with numbers.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Agreed. This may just the beginning stage of a pandemic that continues for many years and millions of deaths befor it's over. Keeping score isn't solving the problem. We need to find a cure. Then play with numbers.


If you don't keep track, how will you know if things are getting better or not?


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

keenataz said:


> If you don't keep track, how will you know if things are getting better or not?


I'm not interested in "getting better". I want to see it gone. That requires a vaccine or cure.


----------



## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Ironically, dying of old age complications, heart disease, cancer, lung problems all seem to have fallen off a cliff since now, most of the MEs are declaring patients are dying of Covid 19 instead. It is very ;likely that Covid contributed to the ultimate death of some of these people, but many were going to die from something anyway (with, or without a pandemic virus).


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I'm not interested in "getting better". I want to see it gone. That requires a vaccine or cure.


You don't need to leave your home for work. The numbers are important to some that do.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> You don't need to leave your home for work. The numbers are important to some that do.


I really don't see how? Will knowing today's numbers affect them in any way?


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

CKelly78z said:


> Ironically, dying of old age complications, heart disease, cancer, lung problems all seem to have fallen off a cliff since now, most of the MEs are declaring patients are dying of Covid 19 instead. It is very ;likely that Covid contributed to the ultimate death of some of these people, but many were going to die from something anyway (with, or without a pandemic virus).


Agreed. We are all going to die.... Virus or something else. Does it really make that much difference how? To me it's far more important how we live.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> *If you don't keep track*, how will you know if things are getting better or not?


People are keeping track.
That has nothing to do with constantly starting new threads just for posting death numbers here.

But you know that already.

If you want to "keep track" use credible sources:
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> You don't need to leave your home for work. The numbers are important to some that do.


How do the numbers change or affect anything for them?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The numbers directly affect how local governments make decisions on what businesses open or stay closed.


----------



## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Now what is interesting is I saw on the evening news the one evening - that Sweden has not shut anything down.

They have warned those at high risk - to stay home - but the rest of the country it's business as usual. Bars and restaurants are open and serving sit down meals, movie theaters are open, all stores are open. I guess their theory is to build "herd immunity".

So it's business as usual in Sweden where as the U.S. is mostly shut down - some small business's will never reopen, majority of people are on unemployment.

Yet the Sweden numbers don't look much different than anywhere else. How can this be?


----------



## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Yet the Sweden numbers don't look much different than anywhere else. How can this be?


Perhaps here, in the U.S, there was a political reason for scaring the public into stay at home compliance, and Sweden doesn't have those folks trying to power grab ! More than one way to develop more need for government control., all in the name of Globalism.


----------



## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

painterswife said:


> Even with all the shutdowns, we will hit this number today. I can't even imagine what would have happened if measures had not been taken. I feel for the medical staff in the areas that have been overwhelmed and are working so hard.


You don't have to imagine. Look at the results from the cruise ships that were infected. With several thousand in close contact and limited medical supplies very few people died. If the numbers in the U.S. are to be believed we must be the worst 3rd world country on earth.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Viral load is a real factor in the severity of any viral disease. High population density will increase viral load if a significant portion of that population is infected. 

New York is in the lead, because they not only have very high population densities, and the governor ordered corona infected patients into nursing homes, a very fatal mistake. Given what we knew and when we knew it, that policy should have seemed like a really bad idea, it's almost like a deliberate attempt to inflict maximum harm on human beings. They could have waged this entire war in nursing homes, assisted living facilities, and other places packed with high risk people and done a lot less to flood hospital resources than forcing all of society to be locked down together weeks, perhaps months after significant spread had already taken place.


----------



## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

unohu said:


> If the numbers in the U.S. are to be believed we must be the worst 3rd world country on earth.


The third world countries dont really test, they dont have the ability. If anybody gets tested its the wealthy or politically important.

You cant compare yourself to somebody that doesnt test. Look at Brazil, their current leader doesnt believe in covid19 and is doing nothing. Not testing, not counting, just sitting on his butt smiling. He wont get re-elected.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

HermitJohn said:


> The third world countries dont really test, they dont have the ability. If anybody gets tested its the wealthy or politically important.
> 
> You cant compare yourself to somebody that doesnt test. Look at Brazil, their current leader doesnt believe in covid19 and is doing nothing. Not testing, not counting, just sitting on his butt smiling. He wont get re-elected.


Did he do what was best for the country or what was best to get reelected ? Or something different. So many variable factors we will probably never know the real answer. Same for many other places. 
The more they test here in the USA the more people it seems that have been infected. Death rate stays the same per hundred thousand but the death rate compared to those infected is dropping rapidly it seems. 
Tragic for those that have died but will be something to see how all of this gets manipulated.


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

painterswife said:


> You don't need to leave your home for work. The numbers are important to some that do.


Some of us just go out and get it done, others huddle in anxiety focusing on numbers.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

coolrunnin said:


> Some of us just go out and get it done, others huddle in anxiety focusing on numbers.


Don't worry to much about those you think are huddled in anxiety. You don't not what is really happening.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The only numbers that matter to most are the ones they are close to.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

painterswife said:


> Don't worry to much about those you think are huddled in anxiety. *You don't not what is really happening.*


Cryptic message.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

barnbilder said:


> Viral load is a real factor in the severity of any viral disease. High population density will increase viral load if a significant portion of that population is infected.
> 
> New York is in the lead, because they not only have very high population densities, and the governor ordered corona infected patients into nursing homes, a very fatal mistake. Given what we knew and when we knew it, that policy should have seemed like a really bad idea, it's almost like a deliberate attempt to inflict maximum harm on human beings. They could have waged this entire war in nursing homes, assisted living facilities, and other places packed with high risk people and done a lot less to flood hospital resources than forcing all of society to be locked down together weeks, perhaps months after significant spread had already taken place.


Since this a novel virus without any or little prior exposure, it is likely from the evidence that one of the most important factors in survivability is the duration and concentration of your initial exposure. It takes time for anyone, even healthy people, to muster an immune response, since your immune system hasn't encountered it before. 

The decision certain, unnamed politicians, made in regards to nursing homes and housing COVID patients was either terribly irresponsible or ignorant or diabolical. The jury is out on that one.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> You don't need to leave your home for work. The numbers are important to some that do.


Those of us that are essential workers are way more concerned about those that can infect us than those who've passed. 

The death rate doesn't measure success or failure unless it compares to another number, usually the number infected.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

If you fudge the numbers and list every disease under the sun as a coronavirus death - that isn't science - it's propaganda


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

True 


wr said:


> Those of us that are essential workers are way more concerned about those that can infect us than those who've passed.
> 
> The death rate doesn't measure success or failure unless it compares to another number, usually the number infected.


The death rate is part of the equation and is therefore important and as an essential employee and I am concerned.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> The numbers directly affect how local governments make decisions on what businesses open or stay closed.





> painterswife said: ↑
> You don't need to leave your home for work. The numbers are important *to some that do*.


Context matters
The *Govt* is who needs to know the numbers.
You weren't talking about them though.



painterswife said:


> Don't worry to much about those you think are huddled in anxiety. You don't not what is really happening.


You don't not too.
Patterns..........


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

painterswife said:


> True
> 
> 
> The death rate is part of the equation and is therefore important and as an essential employee and I am concerned.


The dead aren't likely to hurt you anymore.


----------



## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

A good leader wants all the details of his enemy he can scrounge up before going into battle. Only a fool doesnt care and just goes forward waving his sword in the air full of bluster. Unfortunately lot leaders in world that truly dont care about details and seem to be full of bluster. The devil is always in the details.


----------



## unohu (Mar 10, 2020)

HermitJohn said:


> The third world countries dont really test, they dont have the ability. If anybody gets tested its the wealthy or politically important.
> 
> You cant compare yourself to somebody that doesnt test. Look at Brazil, their current leader doesnt believe in covid19 and is doing nothing. Not testing, not counting, just sitting on his butt smiling. He wont get re-elected.


Ok. Compare us to the rest of the 1st world countries then. We have 3% of the world's population and 25% or more of the world's deaths from this virus. Either everyone else is giving false figures or we are, if all things are equal.
When it comes to conspiracy theories, dragging the whole world into it makes that one a doozie.
On a positive note however, Covid-19 does seem to have made a dent on heart attacks, cancer, strokes and deaths from other diseases.  Maybe we should keep it around for awhile to improve things some more?


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Now if we just had those details. Going to be a while at best.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> Don't worry to much about those you think are huddled in anxiety. You don't not what is really happening.


What is really happening?


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Agreed. We are all going to die.... Virus or something else. Does it really make that much difference how? To me it's far more important how we live.


Yeah it kind of does matter if it’s something preventable


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

barnbilder said:


> Viral load is a real factor in the severity of any viral disease. High population density will increase viral load if a significant portion of that population is infected.
> 
> New York is in the lead, because they not only have very high population densities, and the governor ordered corona infected patients into nursing homes, a very fatal mistake. Given what we knew and when we knew it, that policy should have seemed like a really bad idea, it's almost like a deliberate attempt to inflict maximum harm on human beings. They could have waged this entire war in nursing homes, assisted living facilities, and other places packed with high risk people and done a lot less to flood hospital resources than forcing all of society to be locked down together weeks, perhaps months after significant spread had already taken place.


The governor ordered corona infected patients into nursing homes? You have a link for that?


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

macmad said:


> If you fudge the numbers and list every disease under the sun as a coronavirus death - that isn't science - it's propaganda


And again for the third time I ask for proof. Without it you just spreading an untruth.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

coolrunnin said:


> The dead aren't likely to hurt you anymore.


But they matter. At least to some.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

keenataz said:


> Yeah it kind of does matter if it’s something preventable


I don't think it's preventable. But that's just a guess. Most people seem to die before they get 100 years in. Never met anyone that went more than 105.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

keenataz said:


> But they matter. At least to some.


They certainly do matter and nobody is diminishing their value to society but we're deaing with something that we did not cause, have no control over and there is no cure. 

If you look at the comment we responded to, our responses make more sense.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

keenataz said:


> And again for the third time I ask for proof. Without it you just spreading an untruth.


Don’t hold your breath. I have all the faith in the world that you know how to search out the truth.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

Pennsylvania Forced To Remove Hundreds Of Deaths From Coronavirus Death Count After Coroners Raise Red Flags


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

it has been clearly pointed out that the virus affects the medically challenged. 
So, if somebody with a bad heart, or a diabetic , gets the virus and dies , it is a virus death.
If these same people would have been hit by a bus, or burned in a fire, their deaths would not be listed as a heart attack or diabetic .. 
not too hard to figure out.
of course the heart attack death numbers went down. those people died from the virus..
those of us who are hunkering down are not all anxious and scared. the most fear I have is someone who doesn't believe in hunkering down, happens to somehow come onto my property , carrying the virus with them.. idiots IMHO..


----------



## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

keenataz said:


> Yeah it kind of does matter if it’s something preventable


I'll let you in on a little secret, death is not preventable.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

coolrunnin said:


> I'll let you in on a little secret, death is not preventable.


Actually from the virus it is.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> The governor ordered corona infected patients into nursing homes? You have *a link* for that?


You could find one if you'd simply look:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/22/coronavirus-in-ny-cuomo-says-nursing-homes-must-supply-own-ppe/


> Cuomo’s health commissioner, Dr. Howard Zucker, on Wednesday defended the state’s policy of *requiring nursing homes to re-admit residents who’ve tested positive for the coronavirus* — and also not deny admission to new residents with the disease.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I don't think it's preventable. But that's just a guess. Most people seem to die before they get 100 years in. Never met anyone that went more than 105.


Death from
The virus is preventable. I’m sure you’ll have some folky statement to that too.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

macmad said:


> Don’t hold your breath. I have all the faith in the world that you know how to search out the truth.


So you have no proof. So you are spreading something that is untrue.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

Prove me wrong hoss.


----------



## NurseKim (Apr 30, 2020)

It's my understanding numbers are not being reported properly.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Oh look I have information, rather than just saying. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6846556/coronavirus-death-counts-missed/

Directly and indirectly, the novel coronavirusis killing more people than are showing up in official statistics, epidemiologists warn.


----------



## NurseKim (Apr 30, 2020)

It's my understanding numbers are not being reported properly.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

macmad said:


> Prove me wrong hoss.


I just did. And you made the claim, you prove it. Kind of the way things work.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

Otherwise you are just “spreading something that is untrue.”


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

NurseKim said:


> It's my understanding numbers are not being reported properly.


Well it’s my understanding they are. And you know like from places like John Hopkins. Not Fox News


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

macmad said:


> Otherwise you are just “spreading something that is untrue.”


Not playing your silly game. You made a claim, can’t back it up.


----------



## NurseKim (Apr 30, 2020)

Maybe with Johns Hopkins they are. But with the smaller local hospitals they are not.


----------



## NurseKim (Apr 30, 2020)

Some deaths are being labeled Covid and they did not actually die from covid complications.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Might want to read this info that is from you know Doctors 

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85925
So, pathologists don't certify deaths as due to COVID-19 based solely on a positive nasopharyngeal swab. We get a clinical history of shortness of breath, chest pain, fever, cough. Yes, it is possible that someone could be an asymptomatic carrier and die of heart disease -- but in those cases we would certify the cause of death as heart disease and document the COVID-19 infection as a significant contributing condition, for several reasons.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

NurseKim said:


> Some deaths are being labeled Covid and they did not actually die from covid complications.


And I await your proof. I have posted an actual fact. So I await you proving that they are lying. Or are you for Laura to tell you how?


----------



## NurseKim (Apr 30, 2020)

keenataz said:


> And I await your proof. I have posted an actual fact. So I await you proving that they are lying. Or are you for Laura to tell you how?


No I'm just a nurse who pays attention.


----------



## NurseKim (Apr 30, 2020)

NurseKim said:


> No I'm just a nurse who pays attention.


Who is Laura? I'm new here.


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

At a NY nursing home forced to take COVID-19 patients, 24 residents have died. Yahoo News


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Well at least we know what news people watch. God even Trump’s people are in on it. Oh no even Trump is in on it. Who can you trust?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...s-about-coronavirus-deaths-being-exaggerated/


Add another doctor who has now rejected this theory: Birx. She was asked about it at Wednesday’s briefing and referenced the point above about how the coronavirus exacerbates existing conditions.

_“_Those individuals will have an underlying condition, but that underlying condition did not cause their acute death when it’s related to a covid infection,” Birx said. “In fact, it’s the opposite.”

Finally, we have what Trump said Tuesday: Even as some of his allies were playing up the idea that coronavirus death counts are being exaggerated, Trump insisted they are “very, very accurate.”

“When you say death counts, I think they’re pretty accurate on the death counts,” Trump said. “Somebody dies, I think the states have been pretty accurate.”


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

Missouri files suit against China for 'enormous' consequences of coronavirus 'deceit'


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

macmad said:


> Missouri files suit against China for 'enormous' consequences of coronavirus 'deceit'


Well good luck on collecting. That’s aimed at the state, not you

I guess they could send the local sheriff to seize property


----------



## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)




----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

macmad said:


> View attachment 86686


That is well known. If a person came in very sick and with symptoms they did not test them, they presumed Coronavirus. It makes sense. So that would be cause of death or contributing cause. Could they get some wrong? Of course but insignificant to the overall numbers. Not the many the deniers keep talking about. 
If Trump thinks the numbers are accurate, good enough for me. Not political, just saying country leader would be a good indicator


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

One more. Seems like they could be telling the truth. There seems to be a lot of confirmation 
https://www.wusa9.com/mobile/articl...d-up/507-41f555ea-c051-423d-8f06-209d34aa5636
https://www.wusa9.com/mobile/articl...d-up/507-41f555ea-c051-423d-8f06-209d34aa5636

There has been speculation on social media that the number of COVID-19 deaths is being intentionally inflated. But Dr. Aiken said it is more likely that COVID-19 deaths are actually being undercounted because of lack of testing.

There are multiple reasons Dr. Aiken said Owen’s claims are unrealistic.

First, most “asymptomatic” people aren’t being tested right now. Test-kits are still in demand across much of the nation, and many regions have limited testing to those already showing symptoms. It’s also unlikely that already deceased patients would be tested post-mortem if they appear to have died from something else.

“I’m not sure why a person without symptoms, coming into the hospital for stroke would be tested for COVID-19 anyway,” Dr. Aiken said.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

keenataz said:


> Death from
> The virus is preventable. I’m sure you’ll have some folky statement to that too.


Like I said before, does it matter what kills us? Death is coming, not preventable. What is important to me is how I live until death finds me.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

NurseKim said:


> Who is Laura? I'm new here.


Luke's wife?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> If a person came in very sick and with symptoms they did not test them, they presumed Coronavirus.


It could have simply been "flu".
They shouldn't be "assuming" anything.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

keenataz said:


> First, most “asymptomatic” people aren’t being tested right now.


They aren't dying so they are irrelevant in this context.



keenataz said:


> “I’m not sure why a person without symptoms, coming into the hospital for stroke would be tested for COVID-19 anyway,” Dr. Aiken said.


What is she even talking about?


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

who is Luke ?
testing is kind of useless .. You can test negative today and in a week from now you could test positive..
If you can't get tested every week, what does one test prove ? 
frankly, I am quite at the end of my patience of listening to conspiracy theories.. 
the conspirators point their fingers at others who are concerned about the virus, while they are scared to death themselves of unsubstantiated threats..


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> who is Luke ?
> testing is kind of useless .. You can test negative today and in a week from now you could test positive..
> If you can't get tested every week, what does one test prove ?
> frankly, I am quite at the end of my patience of listening to conspiracy theories..
> the conspirators point their fingers at others who are concerned about the virus, while they are scared to death themselves of unsubstantiated threats..


Luke would be Laura's husband maybe?


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

keenataz said:


> The governor ordered corona infected patients into nursing homes? You have a link for that?


I found this: 

"At the epicenter of the outbreak, New York issued a strict new rule last month: *Nursing homes must readmit residents sent to hospitals with the coronavirus and accept new patients as long as they are deemed “medically stable*.” California and New Jersey have also said that nursing homes should take in such patients. Homes are allowed to turn patients away if they claim they can’t care for them safely — but administrators say they worry that refusing patients could provoke regulatory scrutiny, and advocates say it could result in a loss of revenue."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/nursing-homes-coronavirus.html


----------



## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Now what is interesting is I saw on the evening news the one evening - that Sweden has not shut anything down.
> 
> They have warned those at high risk - to stay home - but the rest of the country it's business as usual. Bars and restaurants are open and serving sit down meals, movie theaters are open, all stores are open. I guess their theory is to build "herd immunity".
> 
> ...


Sweden's numbers are horrible compared to Finland, Denmark and Norway, countries in close proximity with very similar socio-economic structure. 

Having said that, if there is no vaccine in the short to medium term, the death rates in those countries will even out, with the main difference being that Sweden "front-ended" their fatalities. So long as Sweden's health care capacity isn't overwhelmed, it isn't a harmful policy. If a quick vaccine is developed though, a significant number of Swedes will have died needlessly. 

Right and wrong choices will only be accurately assessed through hindsight.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> I found this:
> 
> "At the epicenter of the outbreak, New York issued a strict new rule last month: *Nursing homes must readmit residents sent to hospitals with the coronavirus and accept new patients as long as they are deemed “medically stable*.” California and New Jersey have also said that nursing homes should take in such patients. Homes are allowed to turn patients away if they claim they can’t care for them safely — but administrators say they worry that refusing patients could provoke regulatory scrutiny, and advocates say it could result in a loss of revenue."
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/nursing-homes-coronavirus.html


There has been a lot of blame directed at nursing home workers and nursing homes in Alberta but I suspect in the aftermath, we're going to find out that no residents moved in at the onset or those being moved in from hospitals, being taken out for family functions orreturning from hospital care were tested or isolated.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

This is a completely unknown virus and it is one that has very different and strange effects on the body. Not only in symptoms but in what it is attacking in the body. We are finding out new things every day including the way it attacks the organs (heart and brain too) and how it even brings in toxic shock syndrome. It has now also shown up in blackend almost frostbite looking toes in children. A form of blot clotting.

1.07 million confirmed cases and 61,700 deaths in the US. This is just horrifying and so sad. All the statistics from around the world are just as horrifying and sad. Russia is a mess and they are still hiding the real numbers.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Now what is interesting is I saw on the evening news the one evening - that Sweden has not shut anything down.
> 
> They have warned those at high risk - to stay home - but the rest of the country it's business as usual. Bars and restaurants are open and serving sit down meals, movie theaters are open, all stores are open. I guess their theory is to build "herd immunity".
> 
> ...


Sweden was smarter than us


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

emdeengee said:


> This is a completely unknown virus and it is one that has very different and strange effects on the body. Not only in symptoms but in what it is attacking in the body. We are finding out new things every day including the way it attacks the organs (heart and brain too) and how it even brings in toxic shock syndrome. It has now also shown up in blackend almost frostbite looking toes in children. A form of blot clotting.
> 
> 1.07 million confirmed cases and 61,700 deaths in the US. This is just horrifying and so sad. All the statistics from around the world are just as horrifying and sad. Russia is a mess and they are still hiding the real numbers.


These things were really scaring me about Covid too.
but then I was curious and googled (God bless google!) and many of these same things we keep hearing about related to Covid are also byproducts of other viral infections,..like the flu. Toxic Shock, stroke, blood clotting issues and skin lesions.

I’m NOT saying that Covid is the flu...not at all.
And I’m certainly not minimizing the flu. I get a flu shot every year because the flu is scary stuff too. 
But the flu and other infections can cause these symptoms.
They are rare, like they are with Covid and that information was good to know to keep this in some kind of perspective.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Yes these are the result of other things taking place in the body but it seems like covid-19 is the accelerator because of how it damages the immune system as well as starting you off with so many terrible effects, weakening even the strong.

Other illnesses such as flu have many of the same effects but we do have some effective treatments whereas we do not yet with covid-19. So many things are being tried and some help some and are completely ineffective on others.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

The Paw said:


> Sweden's numbers are horrible compared to Finland, Denmark and Norway, countries in close proximity with very similar socio-economic structure.
> 
> Having said that, if there is no vaccine in the short to medium term, the death rates in those countries will even out, with the main difference being that Sweden "front-ended" their fatalities. So long as Sweden's health care capacity isn't overwhelmed, it isn't a harmful policy. If a quick vaccine is developed though, a significant number of Swedes will have died needlessly.
> 
> Right and wrong choices will only be accurately assessed through hindsight.


It will be very interesting to see. Might prove once and for all that trying to quarantine people to treat a respiratory disease is just as bad an idea now as it was in 1918. Too bad for second wavers that could have fought the disease with good vitamin D levels, and with lungs that are not being ravaged by cold air, and didn't have the opportunity for exposures with much lower initial viral load that is common in the warmer months. 

Either antibodies work or they don't. If antibodies don't work, then a vaccine will not work. You can't have it both ways.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

emdeengee said:


> Yes these are the result of other things taking place in the body but it seems like covid-19 is the accelerator because of how it damages the immune system as well as starting you off with so many terrible effects, weakening even the strong.
> 
> Other illnesses such as flu have many of the same effects but we do have some effective treatments whereas we do not yet with covid-19. So many things are being tried and some help some and are completely ineffective on others.


the other viral illnesses (and bacterial) are also “accelerators”, as you call them or the cause of these symptoms. 
im not sure where you are getting that Covid damages the immune system any more or less than other infections.
I’m not denying at all the severity of this illness. 
just adding a little perspective. 

where are you getting that Covid damages the immune system?
Not saying you’re wrong...just curious.
HIV damages the immune system, Measles damages the immune system (and people don’t want to vaccinate against it!), but other than Covid causing cytokine storms like some flu bugs do, I wasn’t aware of this.


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Irish Pixie said:


> I found this:
> 
> "At the epicenter of the outbreak, New York issued a strict new rule last month: *Nursing homes must readmit residents sent to hospitals with the coronavirus and accept new patients as long as they are deemed “medically stable*.” California and New Jersey have also said that nursing homes should take in such patients. Homes are allowed to turn patients away if they claim they can’t care for them safely — but administrators say they worry that refusing patients could provoke regulatory scrutiny, and advocates say it could result in a loss of revenue."
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/us/nursing-homes-coronavirus.html


I did see that. But Cuomo did not order it. He says he knew nothing about it. Now he certainly should be criticized for not knowing, he did not order it.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Last year scientists discovered 28 new virus groups in glacial melt water. These contained groups with no connection to any of the viruses we know today. Both the US and China were involved in this research and took samples home. I can't help wondering if covid-19 came from something like this because the glacial melt water has been spreading out over several years which gave time for it to enter the wildlife population and develop. Could be the reason we don't have any knowledge of what this virus is about.

*Welp, Scientists Found 28 New Virus Groups in a Melting Glacier*


Scientists drilled a 164-foot hole into the 15,000-year-old glacier.









BY JENNIFER LEMAN Popular Mechanics
JAN 23, 2020









SEBASTIAN KAULITZKIGETTY IMAGES

Scientists have unearthed 28 previously undiscovered viruses, which were trapped in glacial ice from 15,000 years ago.
The team collected the samples from the Guliya ice cap in Tibet, and published their work to the pre-print website, BioRxiv.
 As glacial ice and permafrost around the world continues to thaw, scientists are concerned that ancient pathogens and toxic chemicals may be released into the environment.
It's the stuff of a Stephen King novel.

Researchers from China and the U.S. embarked on a field trip to Tibet in 2015, and discovered 28 previously undiscovered virus groups—in a melting glacier. They recently detailed their findings in a paper posted to the non-peer reviewed pre-print website bioRxiv.

The researchers drilled a 164-foot hole into the glacier, gathered two ice core samples from the 15,000-year-old glacier, and then later identified them in a lab. In total, they identified 33 virus groups—28 of which were completely new to science.

From Tibet to the Arctic to Antarctica, glaciers and ice caps around the world are melting at alarming rates. Scientists are racing the clock and climate change to collect, identify, and catalogue the microbes found in ancient ice. Having a record of these bacteria, viruses, and fungi paints a sharper picture of our prehistoric past and could be valuable for use in studying future pathogens.

Meltwater from glaciers and ice caps could ferry harmful pathogens along streams, rivers, and other important waterways, potentially exposing humans to new microbes, the researchers report. But ice isn't the only thing that's melting. Thawing permafrost, a frozen layer of earth found in high latitudes and at elevation, creates its own unique set of challenges.

Gases like methane and carbon dioxide, which have been trapped in the long-frozen earth, are being released into the atmosphere at alarming rates. Permafrost houses twice as much carbon than what's currently found in the atmosphere, climate change scientist Sue Natali of the Woods Hole Research Center told the _BBC_.

In recent years, researchers have pulled samples of smallpox, Spanish flu, bubonic plague, and even anthrax from thawing permafrost. Scientists have also found harmful pollutants, such as mercury, trapped in the reservoirs beneath Alaskan permafrost.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

emdeengee said:


> Yes these are the result of other things taking place in the body but it seems like covid-19 is the accelerator because of how it damages the immune system as well as starting you off with so many terrible effects, weakening even the strong.
> 
> Other illnesses such as flu have many of the same effects but we do have some effective treatments whereas we do not yet with covid-19. So many things are being tried and some help some and are completely ineffective on others.


Did you read this article too? 

"The surprise discovery, made by a team of researchers from Shanghai and New York, coincided with frontline doctors’ observation that Covid-19 could attack the human immune system and cause damage similar to that found in HIV patients.

Lu Lu, from Fudan University in Shanghai, and Jang Shibo, from the New York Blood Centre, joined the living virus, which is officially known as Sars-CoV-2, to laboratory-grown T lymphocyte cell lines.

T lymphocytes, also known as T cells, play a central role in identifying and eliminating alien invaders in the body.

They do this by capturing a cell infected by a virus, boring a hole in its membrane and injecting toxic chemicals into the cell. These chemicals then kill both the virus and infected cell and tear them to pieces."

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soc...uld-target-immune-system-targeting-protective


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

wr said:


> There has been a lot of blame directed at nursing home workers and nursing homes in Alberta but I suspect in the aftermath, we're going to find out that no residents moved in at the onset or those being moved in from hospitals, being taken out for family functions orreturning from hospital care were tested or isolated.


I kind of want to give a universal response, not directed at this post directly. But my concern is in the aftermath, there will be nvestigations and it will be looking for scapegoats to blame. And that will not help because everyone will be covering their butt. I hope the purpose of investigations is to determine what worked and what didn't, so we can leaarn and better prepare.

I just hope blame is left out


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

keenataz said:


> I did see that. But Cuomo did not order it. He says he knew nothing about it. Now he certainly should be criticized for not knowing, he did not order it.


Yup. And no he shouldn't be, but he will.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Did you read this article too?
> 
> "The surprise discovery, made by a team of researchers from Shanghai and New York, coincided with frontline doctors’ observation that Covid-19 could attack the human immune system and cause damage similar to that found in HIV patients.
> 
> ...


I saw that one too.
I haven’t seen much else about it, though in another article about it they pointed out that
“One important discovery is that the virus, unlike HIV, does not appear able to replicate in the T cells. So when one T cell dies, the virus will die along with it.”
That’s encouraging.
https://www.inkstonenews.com/scienc...-immune-cells-scientists-warn/article/3079592


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Cytokine storm is the new polar vortex. We used to just call it a winter storm, but newscasters, you know how they like to sell a story. Cytokine storm means inflammation. Inflammation is one of the bodies defenses against a whole lot of things. Excessive inflammation can be bad. The body calls for fluid to be sent to the place it wants to inflame, be it a twisted knee or an infected body cavity.

In many cases, with excessive inflammation, it's a matter of the body having too much fluid called from too many places. When the body said, hey, send all of our fluid down here, it meant, for a normal healthy body, not the normal healthy body plus two and a half others. 

A lot of people are doing as told, they are staying safe by staying inside and eating doritos and mountain dew. Heavens help us when they venture outside again. I just wish that people that looked like they had been in a twenty year long twinkie eating contest would stop looking down on essential workers for not wearing masks and so forth because it might impact their health. Some of these folks have been doing a fine job of impacting their own health with no help from an essential worker that can't seem to find masks anywhere.

And then we are told that the idea behind the mask is to keep from infecting others. The first masks they hoarded are the ones that have the check valve. You know, the ones that you can do physical work in without passing out, because they let go of your exhaled, carbon dioxide poisoned air through the check valve with no filtering whatsoever. Those are the masks I see out and about. I would really like to have some proper masks to do my job, safely, without finding a new disease that WHO and CDC don't even know exists yet.


----------



## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

macmad said:


> Pennsylvania Forced To Remove Hundreds Of Deaths From Coronavirus Death Count After Coroners Raise Red Flags


Yes, it's odd how many coroners didn't know that somebody died in their county of Covid 19. I heard of at least 3 or 4 coroners that this happened to. Their county was listed as having a Covid death, yet the coroner knew nothing about it. Then when the coroners start questioning, the state says "Oh wait. We must have been wrong. Never mind."



keenataz said:


> If a person came in very sick and with symptoms they did not test them, they presumed Coronavirus. It makes sense. So that would be cause of death or contributing cause. Could they get some wrong? Of course but insignificant to the overall numbers. Not the many the deniers keep talking about.


Are you sure about that? Look at the people that have been tested - and came back negative. Apparently they were sick enough and had enough symptoms to be tested for Covid - but they didn't have it. The majority of the people who were tested didn't have it. That isn't "insignificant".


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Yes, it's odd how many coroners didn't know that somebody died in their county of Covid 19. I heard of at least 3 or 4 coroners that this happened to. Their county was listed as having a Covid death, yet the coroner knew nothing about it. Then when the coroners start questioning, the state says "Oh wait. We must have been wrong. Never mind."
> 
> Are you sure about that? Look at the people that have been tested - and came back negative. Apparently they were sick enough and had enough symptoms to be tested for Covid - but they didn't have it. The majority of the people who were tested didn't have it. That isn't "insignificant".


An incorrectly administered Covid test will very often come back negative for the virus when the person actually has it. 

This is just one link, Google and you'll find many more.

"While a positive reading is almost always reliable, said Dr. Mark Abdelmalek, false negatives can surface in cases where the test is administered incorrectly, or the sample is mishandled on the way to the lab.

“All tests have a chance of false negatives,” said Abdelmalek, an ABC News medical contributor. “It’s not that this test is faulty.”

There are a few scenarios, Abdelmalek explained, that can skew test results.


Faulty Collection: The preferred swab is from the back of the nose. Samples from the back of the throat or the nostrils are sometimes taken, but those could increase the chance of a negative test even if a person is infected.

Bad timing: If the test was conducted too early or too late, virus may not be detected. Swabs collected too early may not capture enough virus for a test to pick-up the virus particles. And if they are sampled too late, virus levels may have begun to subside, leaving too little of the virus to be detected.

Mishandling: Given the crush of tests being collected, samples that are not stored properly – refrigerated immediately, and frozen if they are held longer than 72 hours – can degrade before they are tested." From: https://abcnews.go.com/US/concerned...rus-test-quarantine-experts/story?id=69921187


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Lisa in WA said:


> I saw that one too.
> I haven’t seen much else about it, though in another article about it they pointed out that
> “One important discovery is that the virus, unlike HIV, does not appear able to replicate in the T cells. So when one T cell dies, the virus will die along with it.”
> That’s encouraging.
> https://www.inkstonenews.com/scienc...-immune-cells-scientists-warn/article/3079592


The article I linked indicated the same thing:

"But there was one major difference between Sars-CoV-2 and HIV, according to the new study.

HIV can replicate in the T cells and turn them into factories to generate more copies to infect other cells.

But Lu and Jiang did not observe any growth of the coronavirus after it entered the T-cells, suggesting that the virus and T-cells might end up dying together."


----------



## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

macmad said:


> We seem to have had a miraculous decrease in all other causes of death! Don’t make a habit of gullibility.


Less auto accidents, less homicides, less workplace and other accidents, etc. Don't seem too *miraculous* to me.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> Yes these are the result of other things taking place in the body but it seems like covid-19 is the accelerator because of how it damages the immune system as well as starting you off with so many terrible effects, weakening even the strong.


Those things have been known to happen with other viruses too.
There's really not much "unique" about SARS CoV 2


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> who is Luke ?
> ..


Luke and Laura, a couple of characters on _General Hospital_.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> Luke and Laura, a couple of characters on _General Hospital_.


All the rage 40 years ago


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Danaus29 said:


> Luke and Laura, a couple of characters on _General Hospital_.


Do they take medicare?


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

HDRider said:


> All the rage 40 years ago


My grandma used to watch it, despite all her protests that she never watched that stuff.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

po boy said:


> Do they take medicare?


Nope. Patients must be very wealthy and beautiful.


----------



## RobertDane (Feb 14, 2020)

SRSLADE said:


> Many more will die before this is over.
> I'll wait for the real numbers at the end of all this.


----------



## broncocasey (Nov 7, 2011)

painterswife said:


> There is no hype. We have that many Covid deaths. It may be lower per capital than other countries but it is not hype. It is how many recorded covid deaths in this country. It is a horrible number.


The numbers aren’t accurate. We know how many die annually from influenza so I’ll be curious to see how many influenza deaths are listed as corona.


----------



## broncocasey (Nov 7, 2011)

poppy said:


> About 3 million people die in the US every year and many of those are elderly people and many with severe health issues and many of those would have died this year anyway.. Those are the same people hit hardest by the virus. We won't know until next year after the yearly death total to have a good idea how much this virus impacted out death numbers. If the number is still around 3 million, the virus didn't make much difference. If the total is about 3,060,000, then we can pretty well assume the virus killed 60,000 people who would not have died anyway.


Great reply. The CDC is going to have a hard time making the numbers work.


----------



## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

coolrunnin said:


> Some of us just go out and get it done, others huddle in anxiety focusing on numbers.


I see alot of anxiety riddled people, who are incapable of functioning because the news shows, and government has scared them into submission.

I am building a greenhouse, restoring a garden tractor, and securing next year's firewood supply.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)




----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Looks like that is a chart showing that flu mortality this year is less than other years. It shows that the lockdown worked for the flu as well.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Looks like that is a chart showing that flu mortality this year is less than other years. It shows that the lockdown worked for the flu as well.


Are you suggesting we do this every year?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> View attachment 86768


Is that all deaths in the US? or just flu deaths? 17-18 was a killer, literally


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Looks like that is a chart showing that flu mortality this year is less than other years. It shows that the lockdown worked for the flu as well.


No, it shows that the trend line, for influenza was already on it's natural downward slope and stay at home had little to no affect on it. COVID will have the same type of curve, peak then sharp decline. It looks like we are on the decline side of the peak in most areas. Of course locking down the economy will reduce the number of people who get it, but, it will set up a large second wave this fall/winter.


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I think hunkering in is the best we can do for the next year.
I'll wait for Dr Fauci to give me the all clear.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It *shows that the lockdown worked* for the flu as well.


Deaths were lower the entire time.
The "lockdown" didn't start until halfway through the chart.
What it's really showing is many of the deaths being *presumed to be* "COVID" are just as likely to be from common flu infections


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Deaths were lower the entire time.
> The "lockdown" didn't start until halfway through the chart.
> What it's really showing is many of the deaths being *presumed to be* "COVID" are just as likely to be from common flu infections


Do you have a link to this chart?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Is that all deaths in the US? or *just flu* deaths? 17-18 was a killer, literally


I believe it's flu only.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Do you have a link to this chart?


The source was given.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/economics/covid-19-deaths-how-much-are-they-understated


----------



## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

broncocasey said:


> The numbers aren’t accurate. We know how many die annually from influenza so I’ll be curious to see how many influenza deaths are listed as corona.


Actually they are to most people who believe in facts. Are they 100% accurate? Of course not, but pretty close out except for the conspiracy club members


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Scientific American.
*Comparing COVID-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is like Comparing Apples to Oranges*
The former are actual numbers; the latter are inflated statistical estimates


By Jeremy Samuel Faust on April 28, 2020


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

emdeengee said:


> Last year scientists discovered 28 new virus groups in glacial melt water. These contained groups with no connection to any of the viruses we know today. Both the US and China were involved in this research and took samples home. I can't help wondering if covid-19 came from something like this because the glacial melt water has been spreading out over several years which gave time for it to enter the wildlife population and develop. Could be the reason we don't have any knowledge of what this virus is about.
> 
> *Welp, Scientists Found 28 New Virus Groups in a Melting Glacier*
> 
> ...


So scientist are worried about virus due to glacial melt but have no issue digging it up from nearly 200 feet down?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> The 25,000 to 69,000 numbers that Trump cited do not represent counted flu deaths per year; *they are estimates that the CDC* produces by multiplying the number of flu death counts reported by various coefficients produced through complicated algorithms. These coefficients are *based on assumptions* of how many cases, hospitalizations, and deaths they believe went unreported.


Another article saying the CDC is "wrong" but using their figures to claim it proves their agenda.
I'm seeing a pattern again.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I am trying to figure out where anybody was locked down? I've been out the whole time, probably spent more time out than I needed to because of all the silly stupid measures in place, but very few people are "locked down" maybe not at work, but nothing near locked down. The first couple weeks, maybe less people, but a lot of them were still out gleaning the countryside for toilet paper at that time. If you crawled under a rock when all of this happened, you might think that we have been locked down, but we haven't been anything close to locked down, ever, at any point. I mean if you based it off people's social media narrative, you might think they were locked down, but I've seen them out. They had to go out at some point, to get necessary supplies. Some people's definition of necessary is pretty broad, too.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

It seemed like all the elected officials thought that people would actually stay at home, so they decided to push a bunch of road work, so there has been a lot of highway construction. The workers seem to be aware that germs don't live long in hot asphalt. Did the powers that be view the road workers as essential, or expendable?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

mreynolds said:


> So scientist are worried about virus due to glacial melt but have no issue digging it up from nearly 200 feet down?


What could possibly go wrong?
https://horrorfilmhistory.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/them-1954-002-ant-desert.jpg


----------



## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

The greater percentage of people seem to be taking this pandemic seriously.
The few seem to think it's ok to infect themselves and to be a danger to others.
What is it about this pandemic that's not being told to the people?
Some seem to be flipping out already.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I see a link.
I circled it for you.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/economics/covid-19-deaths-how-much-are-they-understated


What I am seeing is that we wrecked the economy for less than 45 deaths per MILLION people. Most of the safety measures used now could have been used around the country to start with. Some areas needed special attention, most did not. Factor that in and were talking about way less than the 45. Flame on.


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

We are conducting a mod review of reports filed with us on this thread. I am locking it during our review of the report posts filed on it. We will unlock it after all GC mods have read the thread, we have reached agreement of necessary moderation and cleaned the thread to HT limits.

Please do not start continuations of any arguments started on this thread and reported to us as we perform our review.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Members have been warned multiple times about arguing about sources.


----------

