# caponizing?



## Hexe (Mar 8, 2007)

We are thinking of learning how to make capons. I've researched it a bit and it doesn't sound like it would be that hard to learn - IF you're willing to take some losses during the learning curve. 
I'm thinking it may be a decent way to use the dual-purpose roosters and turn them into something more usable. 

Does anybody have any experience with this?


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

I too have been considering doing this with my excess roosters to encourage a different growth rate that, as you say, will make them more usable. I would like to see a comprehensive text and photo tutorial maybe video as well for this. 

If I felt I had a good grasp on the proceedure I would do this.


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

Practice on birds as you slaughter them. Since they're dead, you don't have time contains, and its easier to learn.

There are several tutorials out there on caponizing. Here's a link to some instructions, with a further link to some instructions with diagrams.

Here's a past discussion of the topic.

Michael


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## wwubben (Oct 13, 2004)

My first 4H project in 1952 was raising 50 capons.I bought them at three or four weeks old already caponized.I don't know if you can still get them that way.They make really tasty roasters.Mine were white rocks.


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

I bought an inexpensive kit from eBay with all of the needed tools and instructions, I did buy a new scalpel with replaceable blades.

I learned on dead pigeons, I shoot every flying rat that tries to take up residence in my barn. It's not as difficult as a person might imagine, after a good bit of practice, the hardest part is making the first cut on a live subject.

I've been pleased with the results, I lose very few, and love the big, juicy, tender roasters.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Thankls for the links. I'll not be trying it this year. IT's my first year doing my own chickens. But once I get comfortable with that I will be getting a kit and doing this proceedure. The price one can get for them if there is a market is crazy!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

If a person decides to caponize it is better done from 3-5 weeks old. If they are older than 2 months it doesn't do any good.


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## Adrescher7 (Nov 23, 2011)

Now this has got me interested. How exactly does this work? The way I understood it, and from my observations(of course i never really looked, but never really noticed), a rooster doesn't really have "junk", its all inside, right? So wouldn't that be a very difficult process to do at home? including keeping the bird still?


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Adrescher7 said:


> Now this has got me interested. How exactly does this work? The way I understood it, and from my observations(of course i never really looked, but never really noticed), a rooster doesn't really have "junk", its all inside, right? So wouldn't that be a very difficult process to do at home? including keeping the bird still?


Yes, you have to make an incision in the side, and go in from there. I don't think I could do that to an animal , that is awake and can feel the pain


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

You WOULD make a steer out of a young bull, would you not?


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Oxankle said:


> You WOULD make a steer out of a young bull, would you not?


Me personally? No. I might band something, but I dont think I could slice something open and go digging around inside it.


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## lisa's garden (Apr 1, 2010)

I'm with Shygal on this. Its one thing to chop a chicken's head off, something entirely different to operate on a live creature. I just order the meat birds. Young cockerels from the laying breeds are butchered young and used for soup.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Myself I would never band something. I have seen that versus cutting or using an immasculator and have concluded that banding is cruel. I use Burdizio but there are many old school herd keepers that slit and bite when it comes to castration. These sorts of things are all about what a person feels comfortable with. We all have varied opinions about what is ethical when it comes to proceedures we perform on our livestock. There are those who would never disbud their goats and many who think it's immoral to castrate at all (my husband being one of the latter *rolls eyes*).

I personally don't have a problem with the idea of Caponizing, not because I enjoy the idea of opening a live animal but because I recognize that it will make my operation more effecient and potetially trouble free (no boy fights). 

I think a lot of farming, and homesteading, is about dealing with harsh realities and finding ways to balance those with the aesthetics we would like to live our lives by.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

At one time caponizing was popular. My father did it years ago.
Now with the cornish crosses there is no real need to caponize.
Making capons out of most breeds are a waste of time as they still will not be comparable to the cornish crosses. No matter how good a person is at the practice there will still be some losses.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

With sustainability and renewability as my main aesthetic, caponizing will likely be part of my reality.


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

pancho said:


> At one time caponizing was popular. My father did it years ago.
> Now with the cornish crosses there is no real need to caponize.
> Making capons out of most breeds are a waste of time as they still will not be comparable to the cornish crosses. No matter how good a person is at the practice there will still be some losses.


If the chicks are free from your own flock of birds and you have the tools and knowledge, why is it a waste of time? You take a bird that you have to butcher small to stay tender, and convert it into one that grows to full size, and provides high quality meat. If you loose the cost of the grain up to that point, you'll still be cheaper than paying a couple of dollars a chick for cornish crosses. Some people don't like the cornish crosses anyway. This provides an alternative.

I can argue that the whole "raise your own meat" movement is a waste of time, since you can buy poultry/pork/beef cheaper than most can grow it. Its all about what you want to get out of your farming experience/production.

Michael


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

artificer said:


> If the chicks are free from your own flock of birds and you have the tools and knowledge, why is it a waste of time? You take a bird that you have to butcher small to stay tender, and convert it into one that grows to full size, and provides high quality meat. If you loose the cost of the grain up to that point, you'll still be cheaper than paying a couple of dollars a chick for cornish crosses. Some people don't like the cornish crosses anyway. This provides an alternative.
> 
> I can argue that the whole "raise your own meat" movement is a waste of time, since you can buy poultry/pork/beef cheaper than most can grow it. Its all about what you want to get out of your farming experience/production.
> 
> Michael


One reason it is sometimes a waste of time is the breed of rooster people decide to caponize. It isn't going to make that much difference in the growth, adult size, or taste.

The bird isn't going to grow into anything that it doesn't have the genetics for. If it is a meat bird it will grown to a certain size in a certain time without caponizing. Making a capon out of it isn't going to change the genetics.

Many years ago there was a difference in capons and roosters. Now with the advances made in genetics, feeds, and raising practices there isn't any real advantage. There seems to be a couple of disadvantages. The % of roosters lost and the slow down in growth until they heal.

If you do not have a good, fast growing, meat breed making a capon out of it will not do anything for it. If you have a good, fast growing, meat bird there isn't any reason to caponize.


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## artificer (Feb 26, 2007)

pancho said:


> ...
> If you do not have a good, fast growing, meat breed making a capon out of it will not do anything for it. If you have a good, fast growing, meat bird there isn't any reason to caponize.


So you're saying that if you have dual purpose birds that you use for egg production, caponizing the roo's isn't going to get you a large tender bird with less aggressive manners?

Michael


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

artificer said:


> So you're saying that if you have dual purpose birds that you use for egg production, caponizing the roo's isn't going to get you a large tender bird with less aggressive manners?
> 
> Michael



It is my understanding that this is exactly the reason to caponize... people like myself who use dual purpose birds. You are on the button there. I think that people who are against this practice even when well concidered will be against it no matter what anyone says or any proofs.

I will raise only animals that are dual purpose, my goats, my cows and my chickens. This technique will be useful to me.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

artificer said:


> So you're saying that if you have dual purpose birds that you use for egg production, caponizing the roo's isn't going to get you a large tender bird with less aggressive manners?
> 
> Michael


When we did caponizing it was many years ago. The birds were about the same size as the roosters. We raise mostly rhode Island reds, white rocks, and mixes. The capons were fatter than the roosters. We had to pen up the capons after the operation for a short while so they had a chance to heal. We would loose some. Roosters do not like capons. We usually had to seperate them from the rooster as he kept chasing the fat off them. Even the hens picked on them. 
That was before the cornish X was developed. The capons were a lot like the cornish X except for the fast growth, the large size, early maturing, and feed conversion.

I am not for or against caponizing as I believe each person should do with their animals as they want. For me it just isn't worth the time and losses. The capons were before the cornish X, Like many things they were replaced when it did not pay to do the extra work.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

The capons I have done grew really pretty and odd feathers. It could be a good sale for fly tiers as an added bonus.


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## John Carter (Oct 6, 2004)

been caponing them since 03.............only lost a couple in the first year and only experienced 1 slip.

I lke the meat much better than the standard young roo.


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## FCLady (Jan 23, 2011)

Since we hatch ALOT of our own eggs out, so we end up with a lot of roosters. Figured caponizing would save us from buying cornish X. Well, we hatched all winter for spring pullets to sell. We caponized 50 roosters total. Yep, lost some, learned a lot. Had many slips but did end up with some true capons. Fed them for about 8 months before we butchered. They were mellow and didn't fight, didn't crow, looked like hens with rooster feathers. When we butchered they were full of fat. We were really disappointed in the results. These were Rhode Island Reds. Pretty large birds, they had huge drumsticks but not much more meat anywhere else than on regular roosters.

We're looking for a meatier bird. I've ordered some White Laced Red Cornish, hoping they are a better alternative to the cornish x or the added work of the capon.


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## Patrick (Sep 13, 2011)

I agree with pancho. It's a waste of time, feed and money. You'd be better off throwing the extra cocks in the compost pile, and buying commercial broiler chicks to raise for meat.


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## CraterCove (Jan 24, 2011)

Patrick said:


> I agree with pancho. It's a waste of time, feed and money. You'd be better off throwing the extra cocks in the compost pile, and buying commercial broiler chicks to raise for meat.


You are entitled to your opinion. However, such arguments seem flippant with no substance. It is not a breakdown of monetary costs of making capons out of dual purpose birds versus raising broilers. It isn't even a call to discuss potential moral issues surrounding the proceedure. 

At what age can most people tell the cockeralls from the pullets? And at such an age how would it be useful to toss them on the compost pile? Are you really suggesting that it is a better idea to leave the chicks to the elements, to starve, to the cat or dogs or to survive feral than for people to use caponization as a means of managing their flocks?


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## lisa's garden (Apr 1, 2010)

Once I can tell the cockerels from the pullets, I get started on butchering the males. They don't have much meat on them at that point, but we still get soup or stew out of the deal. I just don't think that I want to operate on a live animal. It just seems way more invasive than banding animals with their 'junk' on the outside.

I can't see tossing them on the compost pile...we eat them. Leaving them out on the compost will attract coyotes, skunks, raccoons...all sorts of opportunistic predators that might decide your place is the local diner...then start looking for fresh meals when there's no 'compost'.


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## Patrick (Sep 13, 2011)

CraterCove said:


> You are entitled to your opinion. However, such arguments seem flippant with no substance. It is not a breakdown of monetary costs of making capons out of dual purpose birds versus raising broilers. It isn't even a call to discuss potential moral issues surrounding the proceedure.
> 
> At what age can most people tell the cockeralls from the pullets? And at such an age how would it be useful to toss them on the compost pile? Are you really suggesting that it is a better idea to leave the chicks to the elements, to starve, to the cat or dogs or to survive feral than for people to use caponization as a means of managing their flocks?


I've had my words twisted before, but that takes the cake. How did a recommendation to use a feed efficient broiler to make meat instead of a very inefficient so-called dual purpose capon turn into a suggestion to allow live birds to starve? Common sense says that anything placed in a compost pile will not be alive, else it will not compost. Your birds, your (waste of) time and money, but if you want to try doing the surgery to make some capons, see how well it works out and how much grain you use in feeding them to market weight, then see which arguement has more substance.


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## Hexe (Mar 8, 2007)

Thank you all for writing in. 
I've got two things to say: 
A) good advice from both sides of the fence and 
B) calm down, people. 

Personally I'm not replacing cornish cross with capons, I'm merely interested in better utilizing some of my "free" roosters that are raised out of the brooder or from a hen. As far as "digging around to cut" - you have to cut horses, pigs and other livestock, they cannot be physically banded. Many people prefer cutting to banding anyway and will cut even the stock that could be banded. It's all a matter of necessity, abilitiy and preference. 
The way this thought got started was that we usually get some "peanuts" with our shipment of cornish cross (odd breed rooster chicks thrown in for the heck of it) - I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. 
Well, of course those peanuts DID grow much, much slower than the cornish cross, BUT they were absolutely great in rustling up a majority of their own grub. They were ranging around and feeding themselves with not much input. Unfortunately, when the time came their minds changed from "grass" to "a.." and they started harassing each other, the meat birds, hens, you name it and we had to process them. 
I'm thinking it would be interesting to see if they can grow out somewhat longer with a better result. There's a reason why farmers make steers out of bulls, wethers out of rams, etc. etc. 
Why not try it? 

And thanks for that link on how to do this, I followed up on it and it's very informative. I printed it out for reference. Thanks again.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

I have ducks for eggs and meat and I raise Cornish Cross for meat.

If I wanted chicken eggs, I would buy laying specialists; probably brown Leghorns. I would not hatch any chicks. I consider it a big waste of time and money to raise leghorns to eat.

However, if someone wants to do a lot of hatching of dual purpose breeds and raise the roosters, then it makes sense to me to caponize. Dual purpose roosters can be a real pain to have around long before they are big enough to butcher. If they are castrated, it should prevent some of the annoying issues that rooster usually come with.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Is the amount and quality of meat you get from them, over a non caponized dual purpose rooster, worth the amount you lose in time and losses?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

The practice of raising chickens changes over time.
Something that was common and a good practice years ago may be unnecessary today.
Some people have tried it, some people have read about it, and some people have never heard of it. This is a discussion about it. Each person states their experience or thoughts on the subject.
Each person is free to do as they want with their roosters. People are free to take the advice of people who have actual experience, those who have read about it, or those who are just now learning about it.
I am the sort of person that likes to hear from people who have already tried what I am interested in but usually end up doing it anyway. Sometimes it is a success and sometimes it is a failure.


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## Hexe (Mar 8, 2007)

pancho said:


> The practice of raising chickens changes over time.
> I am the sort of person that likes to hear from people who have already tried what I am interested in but usually end up doing it anyway. Sometimes it is a success and sometimes it is a failure.


THAT is my thought exactly. Raising my additional, free roosters as capons is not going to make or break me one way or the other, but it may turn out to be something that I'll repeat. Or not. Who knows...


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## vicb66 (Oct 20, 2007)

My boyfriend and myself did this last year. We made the tool for removing the testicles from the chickens out of a twisted coat hanger.I know a tool from a crochet kit would probably do as fine a job.We did it on live birds that ranged in age from a couple of weeks to about two months.You must starve the chickens for about 24 hours and that's probably the biggest stress inducing factor.They do not struggle and the biggest problem we had was nicking a small artery that runs close to the testicles.The hardest part is cutting a membrane under the skin.It surrounds vital organs.Sharp scalpels can be purchased from the farm store.Clean bedding is a must and we lost none of the ones we were successful on.The ones you accidentally kill die quickly.No struggling.They bleed out fast if you nick the artery.Youtube has some excellent videos.That's how we learned.We did it on a milk stand with the laptop next to us for refresher information.Make sure all of the birds you try it on are males.They aren't sexually mature enough to tell until you cut them open.(oops),Now we buy a total cockrel package instead of straight runs....


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## vicb66 (Oct 20, 2007)

The best part about caponizing is that you are able to buy the cheap birds from the hatchery and raise them with your hens.It's not a "rapefest" and the birds are significantly larger than roosters and they do taste 100% better than any cornish cross because their entire life span is spent eating grass and bugs.You can purchase them in the spring.Caponize them and toss them out with the flock once they have healed and watch them grow.I can get a 10 or 12 pound capon in months on grass and scratch.Plus you are within your rights to ask a higher price and it will be paid.We get $7.00 pound for a capon or a muscovy duck.Side by side taste tests prove my point.And of 15 birds we lost 4 in the beginning now we lose none.As with everything with practice you improve.No cornish crosses here.Nothing but welsummers(hens and capons).Beautiful,large functional birds.


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## Adrescher7 (Nov 23, 2011)

vicb66 said:


> Youtube has some excellent videos.That's how we learned.We did it on a milk stand with the laptop next to us for refresher information.Make sure all of the birds you try it on are males.They aren't sexually mature enough to tell until you cut them open.(oops),Now we buy a total cockrel package instead of straight runs....


You wouldnt happen to have a link to this videos would you? i searched and found one or two videos but they were in spanish... I prefer english when I'm trying to learn haha


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## Laura Workman (May 10, 2002)

Adrescher7 said:


> You wouldnt happen to have a link to this videos would you? i searched and found one or two videos but they were in spanish... I prefer english when I'm trying to learn haha


Hey, VICB66, I just wanted second the request for links to the YouTube videos. I just spent an hour looking and found nothing I'd consider helpful (though there was one older guy who looked like he really knew his business). Links, please?


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