# No grain family milk cow



## Gopher (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm curious to hear people's opinion on not feeding grain to a family milk cow.

Here is my observation. She has high quality hay in the morning and evening. During the day she has free choice grass hay. I feed her 6 pounds of 16% dairy ration from the local feed store. It is a conventional feed. I go out at noon and see her laying down and calmly chewing her cud. She sees the red feed pail and literally goes into a frenzy and starts salivating (literally). She acts like it is a drug. It makes me wonder what's in there that she is craving and if that is a good or a bad thing. I'm considering eliminating that feed, but an organic feed is not an option where I live. I know her milk production will go down, but it is a family milk cow and we don't really need 2 to 2 1/2 gallons per day. A local man feeds his South Devons the same hay (only) and they have fall calves on them.


----------



## Gopher (Jul 19, 2011)

OBTW, a 50 lb. bag of the feed costs me about $8.50 and does not include my time and fuel to drive 20 miles to get it.


----------



## genebo (Sep 12, 2004)

Adding grain to their diet is not a necessity for their health, unless you're milking them to death  Adding grain to their diet gives them more feed to convert to milk. If you don't want the extra milk, don't pay for it.

Grain also gives your milk a fairly constant taste. The milk tastes the same every time. When feeding all grass, the flavor varies according to what grass is in season in your pasture or what is in your hay.

Mixed feeds from Tractor Supply or Southern States may vary from time to time as commodity prices fluctuate. They may substitute barley or oats or wheat or soy beans for corn, adjusting the amount to keep the protein level the same. You can't count on the milk always tasting the same under those conditions.


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Had a whole herd of basically grain free dairy cows. During the warm months they got a handful of corn to get them into the parlor.
During the winter months the milkers would get more corn to help keep them in condition if they needed it.
Our herd average was around 9-10,000 pounds a lactation which is far below average.


----------



## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

If you could find some ground organic corn that should help keep her in condition for the winter. Or at least find a farmer that may have some none GMO corn that you could buy. Buying from a farmer should keep your costs down some also, as corn is not 8.50 a bushel, and a bushel weighs 56 lbs.> Thanks Marc


----------



## Gopher (Jul 19, 2011)

Interesting comments on the flavor. I had not thought of that. 

We live in the lake country of MN and there are few farmers near me. One is organic. That is who I buy my hay from. He has lots of oats, but no corn. I have tried cracked corn, but notice a lot just passes through her. I've been told that GMO corn is harder due to transporting and storage issues. I think I will just drop her down to a few lbs. per day to get her to come into the stanchion. 

Any thoughts on what might be in the feed that makes her act like she does?


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

it's different and it's tasty.


----------



## sharplady (May 20, 2011)

It is not the feed that causes her salivating it is the bucket. In her mind bucket = food so she is anticipating the arrival of the food and her response is to up the production of saliva so that she can eat. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning#Pavlov.27s_experiment

"The original and most famous example of classical conditioning involved the salivary conditioning of Pavlov's dogs. During his research on the physiology of digestion in dogs, Pavlov noticed that, rather than simply salivating in the presence of meat powder (an innate response to food that he called the unconditioned response), the dogs began to salivate in the presence of the lab technician who normally fed them. Pavlov called these psychic secretions. From this observation he predicted that, if a particular stimulus in the dog's surroundings were present when the dog was presented with meat powder, then this stimulus would become associated with food and cause salivation on its own. In his initial experiment, Pavlov used a bell to call the dogs to their food and, after a few repetitions, the dogs started to salivate in response to the bell."


----------



## mozarkian (Dec 11, 2009)

Some cows need grain more than others, you will want to watch her body condition for changes and adjust according (using a weigh tape on them every week will show you changes before they are can be seen). 2 of mine are bigger cows but hold their condition better and eat less than the smaller cow who tends to put everything she has in the bucket when she is fresh. Make sure your cow also has access to a good loose mineral and salt.


----------



## kycrawler (Sep 18, 2011)

6 lb a day isnt very much grain and at the price your paying is less than a dollar a day . If the cow likes it that much let her have it . Some grain cant hurt her in your balmy minnesota winters :happy2:


----------



## mozarkian (Dec 11, 2009)

> If the cow likes it that much let her have it


Amen! My cows seriously like their grain and if I calculate the cost of the milk they put in my fridge, and in my calf bottles -- the cost of their feed is a lot less than what they give back.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

mozarkian said:


> Amen! My cows seriously like their grain and if I calculate the cost of the milk they put in my fridge, and in my calf bottles -- the cost of their feed is a lot less than what they give back.


I agree. Animals innately know what their bodies need. If they are deficient in some mineral they will search it out. Take away their mineral salt block and they'll search out salty stuff. She's telling you she needs protein.

If you fed a high protein hay free choice, and had it tested so you'd really know, I might go along with a reduced grain intake. But you really have no idea.

You have a cow that has provided you with a calf and gives you 2 to 2 11/2 gal a day. Beef farmers make a living feeding cows and get no milk bonus, just to get calves. Making milk takes a lot of energy. 

In a way, this post is like the guy that bought a forest and wants to find the cheapest way to convert it into a hay field. Or the guy that buys a field and wants to turn it into a productive woodlot.

If you worry about the cost of feed and don't give much value to the amount of milk she provides, maybe you'd be better served by a goat?


----------



## BeeDaisyRabbit (Jun 12, 2009)

http://www.grazeonline.com/articles/nograindairy.html

As with all things in life, go slowly and carefully. A cow's energy demands are greatest in the first stages of lactation-approx 4 months & peaking at 2 months. A 16% dairy ration from the Co-op works well to keep her in balance. The last stages of lactation can be managed quite well with lower grain rations such as 12%.

Grass-based genetics and smaller framed cows can thrive on less carb input. 

Work with a vet or knowledgeable person that can help you know your cow's condition score to keep her from crashing - ketosis makes the milk absolutely foul and can threaten her health.


----------



## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

Folks who turn themselves inside out over some kind of ethical/moral/ideological purity drive me a little crazy.

Just pay a little attention to the cow and go from there.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

tinknal said:


> Folks who turn themselves inside out over some kind of ethical/moral/ideological purity drive me a little crazy.
> 
> Just pay a little attention to the cow and go from there.


Yup, it drives lots of folks nuts.
But from what I've seen, it is a strong wave of the future in livestock. I attended a Vet seminar that had Temple Grandin speaking. Keeping animals as happy and stress free is big business. Meyer Meat in Montana is making a fortune on humane raised red Angus. California has outlawed farrowing crates, others to soon follow. 

If you want to keep your contract, your slaughterhouse can't have the cows "Moo" beyond a specified number of times, it shows stress.

I'm not saying I completely buy into the ethical/moral/ ideological thinking, but lots of consumers feel that way and there is more of them than us, so, you might as well jump on board.

So, if bossy wants soms cracked corn, give her a couple scoops.


----------



## birdman1 (Oct 3, 2011)

My aunts & uncles very rarely fed grain we often had to go fetch the cows at milking time they seemed to stand peacefully in the yard while milked .I feed grain (sweet feed) as a bribe to make sure bessy comes in for milking .and she is usally right on time also she will stand quietly while she is milked as she eats; this is how she was broke when I got her so I continue feeding to make milking time easy.If you stop feeding and she is expecting some it will upset her as cows like a routeen to stay the same a little grain makes getting her in the stall or barn very easy .cows love grain like i love lasana and candy and training even nearly wild beef cows to reconise the bucket they will follow you any where even into the loading shute .mostly watch your cows condition if she starts loseing weight and shine or not produceing enough milk she may need extra grain every cows system is differint .I also remmber seeing some boney looking milkers on these little hillside homesteads as some could only afford to rough em through the winter on lower quality hay they put the fat in the milk bucket instesed of on thier back .as the old saying goes let the eye of the master fatten the stock ,


----------



## myersfarm (Dec 24, 2004)

and no grian with hard milking ..
my cause her not to cycle right when you want to bred her back


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

We never had a problem with that until they were around 15 or 17 years old.


----------



## G. Seddon (May 16, 2005)

You might want to look at this document on BCS:

http://www.uaex.edu/other_Areas/Publications/PDF/FSA-4008.pdf


----------



## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

what exactly is "hard milking"? I would be more worried about a fatty cow not cycling.

A grain free dairy cow is very possible. There were a couple of grain free producers that I was aware of when shipping organic. It was easier to go seasonal and not ask the girls to milk during the colder months but either way is possible.
There are other sources of energy besides corn. Barley (or probably any small grain) baleage made in the soft dough stage is an energy intensive feed rather than the high protein feed you get if made in the boot stage.
The original herd I milked was bought from an organic producer that fed lots of grain. I was told like 20-30 pounds a day. We took them down to basically 0 most days and maybe 4 for a couple of days in the deepest coldest of winter if they were milking. A couple didn't make the trip but most of them adapted quite well. These were large holsteins.


----------



## Gopher (Jul 19, 2011)

Thanks for all of the info!


----------

