# Crossing AGHs with PBPs? Why not?



## happydog (May 7, 2008)

I'm scared to even ask this question for fear I'm displaying gross ignorance, as well as insensitivity and sacrilege about Preserving Heritage Breeds. 

Obviously I'm looking at this as practical homesteading rather than from a preservation aspect. To me, smaller pigs are a great fit on a homestead for a lot of reasons. I just want to raise the thriftiest little pigs I can.

I like American Guinea Hogs. They're near perfect for homestead needs. But I've noticed that the vast majority are sold as breeding stock, not meat (unless they have very obvious flaws). Well natch, because they're still rare, AGH piglets usually run $150-$200 (vs $50 for a plain ol' piglet) so of course they're more valuable as breeding stock. 

So I would, at least in the beginning, be raising them primarily to sell as breeding stock and only eating the culls. 

But for our own personal consumption, wouldn't crossing them with another breed confer some hybrid vigor and produce larger litters? Small litters are a definite drawback to AGHs. And the logical choice would be another small breed, like the one that's been a staple of asian homesteads for hundreds of years - the humble potbelly. Wouldn't the resulting AGHxPBPs have benefits the same as any other hybrid pigs, with the additional advantage (for my purposes anyway) of being small? 

So in addition to buying an AGH boar and several gilts for purebred breeding stock, I'm also wondering about getting a PBP gilt or two to cross with the AGH boar, and then breeding the best of the resulting crossbred gilts to an unrelated AGH boar, to give me some pork. (I considered a Berk gilt at first, but I'd rather stay with small pigs.)

Wouldn't a cross confer some hybrid vigor and larger litters? So why is nobody else doing that? I've certainly never read of anyone who is crossing AGHs with any other breed. Would another breed work better than PBPs as a cross for AGHs? Is it taboo to apply the benefits of crossbreeding to AGHs? Or is it simply that it's more profitable or desirable to produce purebred AGHs at this point?

Maybe I'm the only person on the planet interested in small, thrifty, mutt pigs, lol?


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## KIT.S (Oct 8, 2008)

Nahh, other people do it too. Mostly because there aren't enough AGH to go around right now. And people just don't advertise it, for fear of being grumped at. People around here are still trying to find "good homes" for hugely fat, old, mean, uncut boar PBP's because of course they're NOT FOOD! (Of course they're not food at that point! They've been mistreated, overfed, and it's not worth it at that point!) I had one advertiser tell me that her pigs were PETS, not food. When I responded that they have been food for centuries in Viet Nam, we actually got into a nice, calm discussion, and next time we butcher, she's willing to taste and maybe be convinced.
My neighbors have AGH, and I would like to switch to that breed, but I'd also have the problem of finding a boar near enough to use.
Kit


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## Gailann Schrader (May 10, 2002)

I raise "pure" AHH (Asian Heirloom Hogs... aka PotBelly Pigs) for meat. I've so far had 6 sows with 6 different body styles. The sow that is showing the most promise is an AHH that is almost regular hog-style. Long loin, fairly nice hams, nice hocks and foreshoulder (picnic). I figure she's about 145# at the most. I've bred her to a stocky AHH and am awaiting her babies. 

These are smaller pigs, take less food, take less space, blah blah blah. Walter will say that you could raise up regular hogs to a smaller size, but for some reason I would want to raise them to full-size anyway. And I don't have the room or money to feed them out... Or a way to butcher the full-sized ones either (nor do I need in excess of 150# of meat). These littler pigs are just the ticket for me. Besides! Split down the back they fit on a roaster/grill quite nicely!

AHH's are usually fairly inexpensive as people grow tired of them when they get full-sized and assertive. Watch Craigslist... Good luck and have fun!


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## harplade (Jul 14, 2005)

I am buying 2 gilts that are pot belly and wild boar mix. They will be bred to my Guinea Hog boar and leave the GH gilt's babies for resell. We've eaten pot belly's before and they have been fine.

Not a bad idea at all.

Happy eating!!


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## Levonsa (Dec 17, 2008)

I have a KuneKune Boar that we will be crossing to our AGH's for the same reasons that you mentioned. I also like the the traits of the KuneKune and hope to get a small pig that will forage well and graze too. As long as you are diligent about keeping them seperated so you know which are pure and which are crossed. I see no problem with it. To me, they are pigs and if we can't create a demand for them on the table, they will not have a lasting place on the farm. The one AGH that we have eaten so far was very good. I can't wait until the next one is ready to go.


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## Mare Owner (Feb 20, 2008)

It has not been many years since they were only a few Guineas left, though today it seems like there are always some for sale somewhere, ten years ago you couldn't find any if you wanted to buy them. Because of that, a lot of breeders are still working on just getting enough purebred hogs on the ground, and trying to market them and develop a larger breeding population. They are still listed as Critically Rare with the ALBC.

Having said that, I am planning to cross my Guineas with a PBP just for my own curiosity, to get some colorful small meat hogs, HOPEFULLY with the Guinea's temperament. The PBP gilt I bought is the spookiest pig compared to the Guineas.  I have a large extended family so there won't be any shortage of freezers that need to be filled with pork.

I don't know that I will sell any crosses, because honestly, I'd rather see the market for purebred Guineas be the focus. Again, because they are still quite rare and we need more breeders. People get in and they get out, and so there is always a need for more breeders, especially when the breed is so rare, and we're trying to keep the breed around.


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## olivehill (Aug 17, 2009)

As others pointed out, if you're doing so responsibly (housing your cross-bred sow and her pigs separate from your purebreds, not selling them as AGH, etc.) I see no problem with it. 

From a purely personal standpoint if you're an AGH breeder and are trying to contribute to the growth of the breed and establish a market for the meat I would not advertise what you are doing. I would not hide it; but I would not make it a prominent part of my operation unless you find a great combination that is worthy of publicity in it's own right as a hybrid. At which point you would be well beyond experimental phases. I think it may reflect poorly on your operation from the consumer's point otherwise, but you know your market best.


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## Beggs n Achin' (Feb 26, 2021)

I have bred AGH/Kune Kune for 8 years, and last year I started doing big hog (Hamp/York/Duroc) mamas to AGH/KK boar. 

My first two that I held back, 125 lbs at 9 months. I wasn't pleased with that. That was from a big breed mother that was runt of the litter though, and didn't get any size until...9 months or so. 

Also, these ones were raised in a barn stall with younger piglets in there with them hogging off the food, I think. 

I'm disappointed with the growth rate. 

I have a second batch of big/ littles weaned the end of March, and I will keep back a couple of those as well. Try something different maybe and see if I can get them to grow better. 

I have been documenting everything, including all of my screw ups, and made a YouTube video or two, farm blog entries. Pics, FAQ page...

beggsnachin.webstarts.com

I totally prefer the little pigs, both for the easy feed bill, smaller size bc I process at home, and their mellow temperment. But ya, I catch a lot of flack from people "I don't want those little pigs...all I see is little pigs.". Then I tell them that I don't castrate, and then BOY the fun begins! Lol



happydog said:


> I'm scared to even ask this question for fear I'm displaying gross ignorance, as well as insensitivity and sacrilege about Preserving Heritage Breeds.
> 
> Obviously I'm looking at this as practical homesteading rather than from a preservation aspect. To me, smaller pigs are a great fit on a homestead for a lot of reasons. I just want to raise the thriftiest little pigs I can.
> 
> ...


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Pot belly pigs look good when they have lots of land to run find their own food. Like in the far east kind of potbelly 
We got them as pets and changed how they eat drink use litter boxes and sleep in the house .


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

happydog said:


> But for our own personal consumption, wouldn't crossing them with another breed confer some hybrid vigor and produce larger litters? Small litters are a definite drawback to AGHs. And the logical choice would be another small breed, like the one that's been a staple of asian homesteads for hundreds of years - the humble potbelly. Wouldn't the resulting AGHxPBPs have benefits the same as any other hybrid pigs, with the additional advantage (for my purposes anyway) of being small?
> 
> So in addition to buying an AGH boar and several gilts for purebred breeding stock, I'm also wondering about getting a PBP gilt or two to cross with the AGH boar, and then breeding the best of the resulting crossbred gilts to an unrelated AGH boar, to give me some pork. (I considered a Berk gilt at first, but I'd rather stay with small pigs.)
> 
> ...


Yes, this thread is cobwebby but relevant.

The quick answer is they are your hogs to do with as you please.
How do you think we got so many strains of Roses?

Small litters in American Guinea Hogs are typical for the first litter only. 
9 seems like a common number for our litters.
I sell the picks of the litter for breeding stock and the remaining are sold as feeders or culled to improve the line.
Kunes are popular crosses with AHGs.
Potbellies would work. The key when experimenting is to not judge success or failure by a few pigs or a single litter. Knowing how to identify defects in hoof, size, temperament, etc will enable you to use the best stock to continue your line.


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