# Gold: Not such a good investment after all?



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

At least not if you buy if from Goldline, it seems.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/07/glenn-beck-goldline/

http://weiner.house.gov/reports/5 17 10 Goldline Report.pdf

There's a sucker born every minute!


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

I wonder who the "and others" are and why Goldline was singled out?

Could it be because of the show they sponsored?


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

Makes me glad we're investing in our farm!! At least our 'commodities' are easily traded and have some room for growth without relying on someone's 'melt value'....
Catherine


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

willow_girl said:


> At least not if you buy if from Goldline, it seems.
> 
> http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/07/glenn-beck-goldline/
> 
> ...


In this case, no. 

This report considers no nuismatic or collector value of the coins cited, simply the melt value. That's kinda like assessing all homes based on square footage rather than neighborhood the house is sitting in.

And that's kinda silly.

As for Beck owning gold coins and taking advertising dollars from a gold seller...well, at least he's putting his money where his mouth is.

Lastly, every portfolio should contain a smidge of precious metal. Not that gold will make you a lot of money, because it probably won't. It will, however, hold its intrinsic value, which is more than I can say for some of my stock purchases over the last few years.

My best investment over the last couple of years has been gold.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

This is old news spewed forth by someone that wanted to discredit Beck because Goldline is one of his advertisers. 

I guess no one ever heard of comparison shopping? Do you really believe that an investor would not do that?


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I invested in lead. That and the brass the surrounds part of it. Its market price can go up or down but its intrinsic value will always be high, and at sometime in the future, priceless.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Guess it depends on who invested in gold what gold they bought and when. I bought gold when it was $32 and it is $1164 now. I am satisfied.


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

This is old news. They figured out it was some ne harrasin Beck. Some senator named Weiner or winer or some thing like that..


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## SquashNut (Sep 25, 2005)

pancho said:


> Guess it depends on who invested in gold what gold they bought and when. I bought gold when it was $32 and it is $1164 now. I am satisfied.


Ya, we have some silver we bought when it was $3.50. back then it was alot of money for us to buy even a few rounds at a time. Dh wanted to buy all he could get... That's one time I wish he hadn't listened to me.
Now a days gold and silver are being manipulated and then there's that tax when you sell it.


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> At least not if you buy if from Goldline, it seems.
> 
> http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/07/glenn-beck-goldline/
> 
> ...




This is really really old news. 

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/40889/

"There's a sucker born every minute!" I rest my case, your Honor.


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## EDDIE BUCK (Jul 17, 2005)

Just be danged sure the finger that the golds going on, is gunna stay around a while, and don't go overboard from the getgo, and spend a fortune.All that will do is keep ideas popping up in their mind.

Such as,bet I could get a new car with this ring,or I could probably leave and not have to work for at least five years, if I sold this ring.Start out with a thin band, and over the years add to it every now and then, and your investments will remain close to home.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

I wonder.....since Beck uses a Sleep Number bed, and they are one of his sponsors, if the left is going to begin attacking Select Comfort as being a scam? :hysterical:

Y'all really need to give it up. It's just too obvious where this is coming from.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> "There's a sucker born every minute!" I rest my case, your Honor.


Yup! Quite the little scam Beck and Goldline have going. Beck arouses the anxiety of listeners, prompting them to buy gold, then profits from Goldline's advertising. Goldline fields calls from naive would-be investors, and instead of just selling them bullion (a reasonably sound investment) 'upsells' collector coins with a higher mark-up and shaky resale value. All perfectly legal, of course! Brilliant.

I've heard it said that you can't scam a person who isn't greedy, thus my sympathy for 'victims' usually is pretty limited, but I think in this case, probably a lot of people were driven not by greed -- the desire to make an easy buck! -- as much as fear of an economic collapse, fears whose flamed are being fanned by Beck. So I'm a bit more sympathetic than usual, especially for the older folks, who generally suffer more from unwise investments. 

Above links should be mandatory reading for anyone thinking of buying gold!


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

What a silly argument willow-girl. And to end with the bleeding heart statement about elders. Do you really think any elder listening to Beck is too stupid to question any advertisement?

How about let's go after all the sponsors on other shows that you don't like?

This has been hashed and re-hashed. Look up the arguments on-line. Squash Nut is correct. 

This sounds like you are doing what you are acusing Beck of - fearmongering.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Liberal democrat congressmen using an investigation to harass Glen Beck's advertisers? 

I'm shocked I tell ya...SHOCKED!


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> What a silly argument willow-girl. And to end with the bleeding heart statement about elders. Do you really think any elder listening to Beck is too stupid to question any advertisement?


Sure. I used to be a telemarketer. (Years ago, and NOT my proudest moment by a long shot!) Later on, I wrote a consumer-protection newspaper column about scams and scammers. It's a pity Goldline wasn't prominent then; I would have had a field day taking them apart.

It's well-known that elderly people are easier to scam (or sell to, depending on one's perspective). They tend to be more trusting. Many are lonely and desperate to have a 'relationship' with someone, even just a telemarketer on the other end of the line. (A dear lady whose house I clean, and who got into financial trouble from ordering too much stuff from QVC, HSN, etc., admitted this was her problem. The salespeople were just so _nice_, and it brightened her day to talk to them! To the tune of hundreds of dollars a month, which she could ill afford.) 

Older people also may have cognitive and/or hearing problems which they're embarrassed or reluctant to admit, and which may make it difficult for them to comprehend or process information rapidly. They may acquiesce to a salesman's recommendation for fear of being perceived as stupid or senile. Afterward, they may be reluctant to reveal to anyone (i.e., kids) that they've been scammed for fear of being perceived as unable to manage their own affairs. 

In short: the elderly often are easy marks, and too many unscrupulous salespeople are more than willing to take advantage of them.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Guess we need a new law to protect us old folks from our self .:help:

How did some people get the money they have if they are that stupid in the first place .

New law send it all to the Gov we'll take care of you no worries :bouncy:


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Guess we need a new law to protect us old folks from our self .


I think the congressman who spearheaded this investigation is proposing legislation that would require Goldline and similar companies to tell customers how much the gold is worth in the coins they're buying, and the "spread," or how much gold will have to go up in value for them to recoup their initial investment. 

From a consumer protection standpoint, I think that's a sound idea.

As it stands now, coins are considered a "collectible" and not regulated. No doubt it's a scammer's paradise!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Common Tator said:


> Liberal democrat congressmen using an investigation to harass Glen Beck's advertisers?
> 
> I'm shocked I tell ya...SHOCKED!


Sounds like a legitimate gripe.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Son bought coins that are 1oz not collector type but at market value .

That would be why they are called collector coins worth what a collector is willing to pay based on supply and how rare . If someone hoards or buys up certain coins they go up if non on the market


I can see Gov figuring out the up coming value of the last gold coin with the image of O on it in 30 years .:smiley-laughing013:

Main worry the Gov has is who has what gold that is out there . 

With the usual stupidity of the Gov and trying to keep up with and tax these sales will be a larger underground market


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> Yup! Quite the little scam Beck and Goldline have going. Beck arouses the anxiety of listeners, prompting them to buy gold, then profits from Goldline's advertising. Goldline fields calls from naive would-be investors, and instead of just selling them bullion (a reasonably sound investment) 'upsells' collector coins with a higher mark-up and shaky resale value. All perfectly legal, of course! Brilliant.
> 
> I've heard it said that you can't scam a person who isn't greedy, thus my sympathy for 'victims' usually is pretty limited, but I think in this case, probably a lot of people were driven not by greed -- the desire to make an easy buck! -- as much as fear of an economic collapse, fears whose flamed are being fanned by Beck. So I'm a bit more sympathetic than usual, especially for the older folks, who generally suffer more from unwise investments.
> 
> Above links should be mandatory reading for anyone thinking of buying gold!



"There's a sucker named Willow Girl born every minute!" Do you understand that any better? :hammer: :shrug:


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> I think the congressman who spearheaded this investigation is proposing legislation that would require Goldline and similar companies to tell customers how much the gold is worth in the coins they're buying, and the "spread," or how much gold will have to go up in value for them to recoup their initial investment.
> 
> From a consumer protection standpoint, I think that's a sound idea.
> 
> As it stands now, coins are considered a "collectible" and not regulated. No doubt it's a scammer's paradise!



I don't have to "think" about this smear campaign. Weiner is specifically targeting conservatives. He cares nothing about gold or about "older folks, who generally suffer more from unwise investments". He's only going after the conservatives. What about the liberal older folks? I guess they're on their own. 


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0510/Goldline_girds_for_Weiner_assault.html



> Tomorrow May 18th Congressman Weiner (NY-D) will be either having a press conference or sending out a press release that will involve Goldline International and Glenn Beck. Congressman Weiner will also be going after other conservative supporters that endorse Goldline International. We are not sure what exactly Weiner will be saying but we do know that it will not be favorable to either Goldline or any of the conservative personalities that support Goldline.


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## Tiempo (May 22, 2008)

Dr. Mom said:


> "There's a sucker named Willow Girl born every minute!" Do you understand that any better? :hammer: :shrug:


Nice.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

In this article, they believe that the only value of a coin is it's melt value. They don't consider factors like rarity or condition or the going rate at other coin dealers. In the age of the Internet, you can research coins for yourself, and see what various coin dealers are selling coins for.

Intelligent consumers buy from Goldline and other dealers with full knowledge of what the going rate is and what other dealers are charging.

And the melt rate value is like saying that you should pay no more for a house than what you would pay for a pile of lumber. Once again, intelligent consumers know that the finished product is a whole nother story.

I hate to burst your bubble Willow Girl, but you got snookered. This case is going nowhere. And it was a wise move on Goldline's part to advertise on FOX. They are growing by leaps and bounds.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Wasn't it Weiner who stated that the government has NEVER confiscated gold, does not have the authority to confiscate gold? 

Who's the real scammer here?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

SquashNut said:


> Ya, we have some silver we bought when it was $3.50. back then it was alot of money for us to buy even a few rounds at a time. Dh wanted to buy all he could get... That's one time I wish he hadn't listened to me.
> Now a days gold and silver are being manipulated and then there's that tax when you sell it.


I sold some silver last week. I don't do the tax thing. All cash and carry for me, that is one of the things that attracted me to gold and silver. No paper trail.
It is being manipulated but it is possible to make a little money anyway.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

EDDIE BUCK said:


> Just be danged sure the finger that the golds going on, is gunna stay around a while, and don't go overboard from the getgo, and spend a fortune.All that will do is keep ideas popping up in their mind.
> 
> Such as,bet I could get a new car with this ring,or I could probably leave and not have to work for at least five years, if I sold this ring.Start out with a thin band, and over the years add to it every now and then, and your investments will remain close to home.


Now you tell me. If I would have known that years ago I could be retired today. Now my investment is drawing interest somewhere else.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Sounds like a legitimate gripe.


Sounds like Obamaco going after someone who exposes their lies.
mob tactics and you fell for it again 
Like usual, Obamaco stoops pretty low and instead of trying to prove Beck wrong, they try to cut his advertisers throats.
You got some Obamadrool on your shirt there......................


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

To me, it just makes sense that if gold has come up every year for the last 10 years, and now it's being advertised like crazy all over.. that it's balloon that's going to pop.

Those saying Beck is scamming people are grabbing at straws. Notice they never want to talk about the facts he brings, only Beck himself. As though, if he were not legitimate, the information he brings for wouldn't be either. Facts are facts no matter who speaks them. Facts need to stand on their own merits, anyone but God can be wrong.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

In comparison it might be nice if someone was to sue General Motors on the melt value of a new Corvette being only about $140 per ton.:smiley-laughing013:


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

edcopp said:


> In comparison it might be nice if someone was to sue General Motors on the melt value of a new Corvette being only about $140 per ton.:smiley-laughing013:


GM isn't purporting themselves to be selling metal commodity investments.

This is a clear case of an investment firm offering bad advice and taking advantage of customers. While probably not illegal, this is just about as bad of a thing to happen to their image as possible.

What's not clear is whether Beck knew anything about the quality of the investment. It's entirely possible that he didn't know, but his image will probably take a hit anyway.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

southerngurl said:


> To me, it just makes sense that if gold has come up every year for the last 10 years, and now it's being advertised like crazy all over.. that it's balloon that's going to pop.
> 
> Those saying Beck is scamming people are grabbing at straws. Notice they never want to talk about the facts he brings, only Beck himself. As though, if he were not legitimate, the information he brings for wouldn't be either. Facts are facts no matter who speaks them. Facts need to stand on their own merits, anyone but God can be wrong.


This just helps make Obama look petty and weak.
Never before has a "president" attacked a TV channel or individuals working for it like Obama does.
He ignores the people he should be paying attention to and attacks those he should be ignoring.
What a dunce.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Nevada said:


> GM isn't purporting themselves to be selling metal commodity investments.
> 
> This is a clear case of an investment firm offering bad advice and taking advantage of customers. While probably not illegal, this is just about as bad of a thing to happen to their image as possible.
> 
> What's not clear is whether Beck knew anything about the quality of the investment. It's entirely possible that he didn't know, but his image will probably take a hit anyway.


It's a case but it is not clear. GL sells the basis and possibility of a perceived value, as well as melt value. So that investment is based largely on a perception. Who can say what it will be worth, someday.

A lot of what makes a corvette desirable is it's high cost, and the value of the dollar. It seems that banks manipulate both the value of the dollar, and the cost of gold so there is a comparison.

Now from where I sit it often looks like the banks control the government here in the U.S. as well as world wide. If the banks decide that gold will increase in value by 40 times, it will. It is more likely for the price of gold to increase than it is for it to decrease (greed 101). So the selling of the perception that an item might go up in value is realistic, actually a lot more realistic than G. Beck being worth $14,000,000 a year. Beck will be O.K. no matter what happens.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

edcopp said:


> GL sells the basis and possibility of a perceived value, as well as melt value.


That's not the impression I get from Beck's promotion.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Wonder how many commercials there are on tv trying to get people to buy something? Wonder how many well known people are paid to advertise a product? Wonder how many of the commercials are really true?

Anyone ever watch late night tv?


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

If anyone takes the time to actually listen to Beck, you will hear him explain his reasons for buying gold (not as an investment), and that the way he chooses to buy gold is probably the most expensive way you can buy it. He recommends that people consider their own situation, pray about it, and then decide if buying gold is right for them. He also recommends that people educate themselves on the issue before making a decision. He recommends Goldline since they are a sponsor, but he was a customer of theirs before they became his sponsor. I don't see anything that constitutes a scam. What I do see is a President who is afraid of people who use facts to expose what is going on in Washington.

If you really want to see the definition of the word "scam", take a long look at Barak Obama.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

deaconjim said:


> If you really want to see the definition of the word "scam"


I wouldn't call this a scam. I would call it misrepresentation. They are not selling one product while claiming it's another, which would be a scam. So far as I know, they deliver the product they promise.

What I object to is Beck representing the product to be suitable as a hedge against an international economic SHTF scenario, which it is not. You may find gold buyers in a post-SHTF society, but you won't find coin buyers who will offer any numismatic value.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

Nevada said:


> I wouldn't call this a scam. I would call it misrepresentation. They are not selling one product while claiming it's another, which would be a scam. So far as I know, they deliver the product they promise.


What about the promise of "transparancy"?



Nevada said:


> What I object to is Beck representing the product to be suitable as a hedge against an international economic SHTF scenario, which it is not. You may find gold buyers in a post-SHTF society, but you won't find coin buyers who will offer any numismatic value.


He is very clear about his position on gold. He is not a financial advisor, so it would be silly for anyone to buy gold just on his opinion. It would also be silly for someone to read your post and decide not to buy gold based solely on your opinion. Beck does recommend that people consider the option, pray about it, investigate the facts, and make an informed decision. I know this because I've actually listened to his show long enough to hear it. I've never heard him say anything that was in the least bit deceptive. I can't say the same for those who are attacking him.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

Txsteader said:


> Wasn't it Weiner who stated that the government has NEVER confiscated gold, does not have the authority to confiscate gold?
> 
> Who's the real scammer here?


Yup, Weiner it was....what a crock of ButterScotch...some folks...
Matt


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

Dr. Mom said:


> "There's a sucker named Willow Girl born every minute!" Do you understand that any better? :hammer: :shrug:


Classy.


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## Shygal (May 26, 2003)

pancho said:


> Wonder how many commercials there are on tv trying to get people to buy something? Wonder how many well known people are paid to advertise a product? Wonder how many of the commercials are really true?
> 
> Anyone ever watch late night tv?


You mean Colon Cleanse wont rejuvenate me and add years to my life?  Say it isnt so!!!


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Nevada said:


> That's not the impression I get from Beck's promotion.


Then you've never listened to it. He couldn't BE more upfront about it.

Keep grasping.

I am really surprised though, this made it's play through DU and the Daily Kos months ago. You and Willow Girl must have been pretty busy.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

"But wait, there's more...purchase in the next 10 minutes, and we'll improve the ecomomy. Yes, the new ....... reform bill", whatever is in it, you can't see 'til is approved, but it will do wonders for us all, especially those that are in favor of it...Really"
Aside from that, what idiot would invest in something as high valued as gold without doing some research...? Agreed, another straw grasp...
Matt


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

Nevada said:


> That's not the impression I get from Beck's promotion.


Nevada, I realize that this is an emotional issue for you. You have no clue what representations Glen Beck has made, yet you really want to take him down.

You would benefit from watching Beck. Then you can speak intelligently about him and what he says. 

Until then, you simply can't speak intelligently about the man or what he says.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

deaconjim said:


> He is very clear about his position on gold. He is not a financial advisor, so it would be silly for anyone to buy gold just on his opinion. It would also be silly for someone to read your post and decide not to buy gold based solely on your opinion.


But that's just it; they aren't selling gold. They are selling gold coins with more than 50% of the cost being speculative numismatic value. In other words, they are dealers to coin collectors. That's very different from selling gold.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Common Tator said:


> You have no clue what representations Glen Beck has made


Huh? How do you figure? You don't think a leftie can understand Becks plugs for that dealer?


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Hopefully soon, some Liberal Protector of the People will begin an investigation of Apple, and their exorbitant pricing structure. They prey on their fanboy base, putting out pretty looking devices, priced several times higher than a good socialist corporation should. I shudder to think, but they actually make profits! Obscene profits (to a progressive socialist, all profits are obscene). To make matters worse, Apple hoards these obscene profits in Cash!!! and not distributing those profits to the stockholders. I want a Crusader to step in and seize that hoard of cash, and do something good with it... like build some more housing projects for the progressive socialist working (well, not really working) class.

In my minds eye, there's no better way of educating yourself, than by getting 'taken'. Sometimes the education is cheap, sometimes it takes everything. Think: Bernie Madoff.

In all seriousness, thankfully the financial law the progressives passed will make the Fed's investigation proof... The SEC will no longer have to answer FOIA requests. Hey Big Brother... as soon as you arrive... you better get in touch with the people........ (sorry, anytime I hear Big Brother, that song pops in my head).

If someone does get taken, at least they have their gold.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Shygal said:


> You mean Colon Cleanse wont rejuvenate me and add years to my life?  Say it isnt so!!!


Only if you paid separate shipping and handeling for 2.


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

Nevada said:


> What's not clear is whether Beck knew anything about the quality of the investment. It's entirely possible that he didn't know, but his image will probably take a hit anyway.


Are you kidding? Beck's ratings went thru the roof when the story broke and GL maintained their A+ rating. The story backfired on Weiner and exposed his "financial misconduct" during his reelection campaign.

Do your homework. I did mine. When you finally get enough nerve to actually watch Beck himself on TV, instead of listening to what others say about him, then come back and we can have an intelligent conversation. Until then, you will continue to be just like Obama . . . afraid of a man with a chalkboard. 

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/3622-glenn-beck-vs-congressman-weiner



> Weiner alleges that âGoldline rips off consumers,â and that Beck is manipulating public fears to help Goldline make a profit. So Congressman Weiner is simply looking out for Beckâs viewers, huh? One wonders what brought Goldline to Weinerâs attention in the first place, since Goldline has boasted an âA+â rating with the Better Business Bureau and, in fact, has recently sent out a press release emphasizing this point in dispute of Weinerâs charges. In an industry full of âFâ-rated gold companies, like Superior Gold Group LLC, My Gold Envelope, Money4Gold Holdings, Inc., etc., why would a business that has been assigned an âA+â rating pique Weinerâs interest?
> 
> The congressman continues to cite the existence of 40 complaints against Goldline as evidence of the companyâs shady tactics, but given the companyâs 50-year history, $525 million annual revenue, and nationwide service, 40 complaints seems like a drop in the ocean.
> 
> ...


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> "There's a sucker named Willow Girl born every minute!" Do you understand that any better?


How am I a sucker? I certainly didn't buy any overpriced gold coins from Goldline! 



> Those saying Beck is scamming people are grabbing at straws. Notice they never want to talk about the facts he brings, only Beck himself.


Hell-O! I posted two links that spell out the facts in detail! The chart at http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/07/glenn-beck-goldline/ lays it all out in a particularly nice, and occasionally humorous, fashion. 

In a nutshell: People listening to Beck and panicking over a possible TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI are inspired to take his advice to buy gold. They call Goldline, where a salesman (who sounds suspiciously like a financial advisor), steers them away from bullion and toward highly speculative numismatic coins. 

As the chart indicates, "People buy numismatic coins because they are rare works of art. They also sell them back to other coin collectors. Gold numismatic coins have additional value (and cost) which is entirely useless in a financial collapse if you either have to melt down your rare coins (losing all additional value) or try to find someone buying rare coins at that time." 

Worse, Goldline palms off some very common coins as "rare," and they vastly overcharge (as compared to competitors). The chart above cites one example, 1/4 oz. Proof Gold American Eagles, which have a melt value of $285. Competitors sell them for $318, but Goldline charges $813. "If you bought these as a hedge against inflation, you immediately lost 64 percent," the chart notes. 

Among the key findings in Weiner's report:



> The average Goldline markup was 90% above the melt value of the coin. The largest markup on any coin was 208% above the melt value. Furthermore, the average Goldline markup is 47% higher than better-priced competitors, with some of the companyâs markups going as high as 102% compared to its competitors on one of the coins they offered.


Of course, this is what capitalism is all about, though, isn't it? "Buy cheap and sell dear"? It's not illegal; some would argue it isn't even unethical. (Everything is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it.) But customers who pay these inflated prices because they're too dumb or gullible to exercise due dilligence are suckers. And Glenn Beck, I'm sure, is laughing all the way to the bank! :shrug:


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

Good Grief, WG! You are a sucker because you fell for the story hook, line, and sinker. Without doing any research on the old, outdated story. You just posted it because it looked like a good Beck-bash. 

When will you understand that Weiner's smear campaign had nothing to do with gold, gold prices, or even Goldline. It had everything to do with attacking a non-liberal talk show host without any reliable evidence to support his attack. Period. 

The Democrats will do anything to discredit conservatives, Republicans, and independents. The problem is that it almost always backfires on them. See the above link to see Weiner's financial problems during his reelection campaign. 

"Beck refers to a $47,000 fine against Weiner because of financial misconduct during his reelection campaign and a $28,000 loan made to one of Weinerâs campaign committees by his own parents." 

This story backfired on you, WG. Better luck next time. 

Oh, and you might want to watch Beck once in a while. He can explain these kinds of smear campaigns a lot better than I can.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Oh, I listen to Beck every day. I find him hilarious. 

So, it's a "smear campaign" when investigators expose a company's questionable practices? I don't see anyone disputing the substantive issues here -- that Goldline's products are overpriced, and its marketing tactics shady. (Even Beck isn't disputing them. Instead, he's whining that the government is trying to stop people from buying gold.) For instance, as Weiner's report alleges:



> Goldline Salespeople Misrepresent Their Ability To Give &#8220;Investment Advice&#8221;
> 
> Sales people imply that they are &#8220;investment advisors&#8221; or &#8220;financial advisers&#8221; by offering investment advice, which insinuates that they have some sort of fiduciary responsibility to get you the most return on your investment.
> 
> However, since they are not licensed investment advisors, they have no such responsibility. In 2006, the Missouri Secretary of States&#8217; Office, Securities Division filed a formal consent order against Goldline for exactly this reason and recovered over $200k for an elderly consumer that was ripped off.


And as far as the story being dated, I believe the latest news broke just last week -- that the Los Angeles County District Attorney and the Santa Monica City Attorney are conducting a joint investigation into the firm's business practices. I guess I'm nine days behind the curve, but hey, I'm not in the news business anymore. 

This was the first I'd heard of this situation, but I'm glad to hear it apparently has gotten a lot of publicity. Hopefully some prospective gold-buyers will take heed and steer clear of this company!


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> In a nutshell: People listening to Beck and panicking over a possible TSHTF or TEOTWAWKI are inspired to take his advice to buy gold. They call Goldline, where a salesman (who sounds suspiciously like a financial advisor), steers them away from bullion and toward highly speculative numismatic coins.


Have you ever visited the Survival & Emergency Preparedness forum right here at Homesteading today? Many (if not most) of us do feel a sense of urgency to be prepared. You are insulting a large percentage of the posters here. Many of whom, prepare without ever having watched Glen Beck. And there is much more to preparedness than buying gold. Please educate yourself.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Have you ever visited the Survival & Emergency Preparedness forum right here at Homesteading today?


Yeah, usually I save that one for Saturday nights, though -- it cracks me up the same way Beck does. Zombies?!

Sorry, but I think Beck and his fellow doom-mongers are leading a bunch of dim folks around by their noses ... and profiting from their gullibility, and that's sad! (Remember, I used to write a consumer protection column. I researched cases of scammers who preyed on the foolish and elderly, and I hated those scammers with every fiber of my being!)

As others have pointed out, in recommending Goldline's grossly overpriced products, Beck had to be either a woefully incompetent financial advisor, or a willing participant in the company's shady dealings. Take your pick! :shrug:


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

WOW! Did I miss the thread where it said "Thursday & Friday are rake willowgirl over the coals day!"?

Good grief folks. She simply posted some information. As usual it all turns into a "For them / against them" thing. I really think willowgirl could care less about Beck. (I don't watch him nor know anything about him.)

As for the "survival forum". I'm betting ALL through history SOMEBODY has been a doom and gloom sayer. SOME are right - the MAJORITY are way off - and life continues as usual.

While I think I person should spend their money prudently (and also be prepared for the occasional rainy day / drought), this whole prepare for the "END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT" scenario can get a bit "odd" too.

Give willowgirl some slack folks!


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> Oh, I listen to Beck every day. I find him hilarious.
> 
> So, it's a "smear campaign" when investigators expose a company's questionable practices? I don't see anyone disputing the substantive issues here -- that Goldline's products are overpriced, and its marketing tactics shady. (Even Beck isn't disputing them. Instead, he's whining that the government is trying to stop people from buying gold.) For instance, as Weiner's report alleges:
> 
> ...



Wow, just Wow. If you "listen to Beck every day" and all you learned from listening to him is that he personally recommends sponsors who have "questionable practices", then you have just lost any credibility in my book.

I have better things to do. Beck is on and I'm going to watch and learn from him. Have a nice day.

Oh, BTW, I hear that the congressman who started this whole smear, Weiner, went ballistic on the floor of the House today. You might want to watch it and see if you can find any credibility in him after his rant.


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

Michael W. Smith said:


> WOW! Did I miss the thread where it said "Thursday & Friday are rake willowgirl over the coals day!"?
> 
> Good grief folks. She simply posted some information. As usual it all turns into a "For them / against them" thing. I really think willowgirl could care less about Beck. (I don't watch him nor know anything about him.)
> 
> ...


She brought on herself. She deserves no slack or any credibility. I picked up on the fact that she could care less about Beck, even though she "listens to Beck every day". I doubt very much that she does. Why would she waste her time? I don't like Shawn Hannity, therefore I don't watch him. 

"(I don't watch him nor know anything about him.)" Then you nothing about what you are talking about. 

I presented facts to her that it was a smear campaign on Beck, not Goldline, and she refused to acknowledge it. She posted "information" that was erroneous and she refused to take any responsibility for her mistake.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

willow_girl said:


> Yeah, usually I save that one for Saturday nights, though -- it cracks me up the same way Beck does. Zombies?!


The "Zombies" we speak of so commonly in the SEP subforum is a catchall word for people like yourself, who think there's absolutely nothing to worry about.

Zombies are people who don't prep. Who make fun at those who do, and call them "nuts" of one stripe or another.

Zombies are the people that don't prep who once a disaster (shtf or TEOTWAWKI) arrives, will be trying to appropriate the food and supplies of those who did prep.... either quasi-legally, through citizen's groups, through begging, or through looting/raiding.

We've all heard the story of the Ant and the Grasshopper. The difference between humans and ants vs. grasshoppers, is humans won't go willingly into that good night (accept responsibility for their ignorance and unwillingness to take care of their own futures... and having made a fatally wrong decision, do the right thing and just die).... instead they'll try and take what others have laid by, for the hard times.

When we speak of zombies, it's unprepared humans, not George Romero's living dead brain eating zombies.

Of course, you know that...  [geesh, I hope you do]


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> She brought on herself. She deserves no slack or any credibility. I picked up on the fact that she could care less about Beck, even though she "listens to Beck every day". I doubt very much that she does.


Well, not every day, because when the Pirates are playing, he's preempted by the ball game. But yeah, usually his show is on when I'm driving home from work, and often I'll tune in. I find him amusing. He's a case study in using a lot of words to say nothing at all. It's all suggestion, innuendo, and rumor-mongering, leading the listener to draw their own ominous conclusions. His style gives critics little to dispute, since he seldom actually _says_ anything; he merely _suggests_ it. 

Along the same lines, his latest pitch for Goldline (heard it today) is, "It's right for my family." What, exactly, does that mean? Especially to the listener? (Maybe that Goldline is a good option for millionaires who can afford to pay half again for a product without batting an eyelash?) They're words that actually have no meaning, make no promises, but are vaguely reassuring, aren't they? 



> Why would she waste her time?


It's fun to take apart what he's saying, examine how he manipulates his audience. It's like analyzing how a magician performs his tricks. It isn't hard to do in Beck's case if you have a modicum of critical thinking skills. He's good at what he does; he's a brilliant huckster. He must _hurt_ himself laughing when he reads the fan mail he gets from the mouth-breathers who hang on his every word.



> I presented facts to her that it was a smear campaign on Beck, not Goldline, and she refused to acknowledge it. She posted "information" that was erroneous and she refused to take any responsibility for her mistake.


I guess I missed something! I haven't seen any attempts to refute the allegations made by Weiner as to Goldline's pricing and business practices. Even Beck (and Goldline) aren't trying to argue that their prices aren't wildly inflated when compared to their competitors. Beck's primary defense (besides sophomorically poking fun at Weiner's unfortunate surname) seems to be to mutter ominously that the government is trying to take away the public's right to buy gold. The sky is falling! Of course, no one said no such thang. 

Bottom line is that Beck has been shilling for a company that grossly overcharges its customers and engages in questionable business practices. (You can find the 2006 Missouri consent order online if you wish. I suspect there will be many more to come! Complaints filed with the FTC, obtained by a journalist under the Freedom of Information Act, can be read here: http://motherjones.com/files/MotherJonesGoldlineFTCComplaints.pdf). I find it very difficult to believe he wasn't aware of this, in which case, it seems he was content to allow his listeners to be fleeced. Nice guy? Umm, not so much.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> When we speak of zombies, it's unprepared humans, not George Romero's living dead brain eating zombies.


Willow's too smart to not know that 
She just likes pokin'


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

P.S. for Texican, hey, "Night of the Living Dead" was made here in my town! In Pittsburgh, we're _all about_ the zombies! 

That said ... there are sensible folks who keep a flashlight in the cupboard and a snow shovel in the truck, and who are aware of meteorological or other hazards of their area and are prepared in the event of blizzard, hurricane, etc. Heck, I'm one of them myself!

Then there are folks who, it seems, spend an inordinate amount of time indulging in fantasies about what they'll say to their formerly spendthrift brother-in-law after TEOTWAWKI, when he and his family -- ragged, desperate and starving -- show up at the bunker door begging sustenance. And any time I've visited the Survival forum, it seems there are always one of two threads going in which people share these reveries, gleefully savoring the imaginary opportunity to stick it to all the folks who are out there having a good time, running up their credit cards, vacationing in Panama, getting their nails manicured and their bikini lines waxed, instead of being good grasshoppers and squirreling away wheat berries, bullets and Krugerrands. 

And ... that's a little weird, IMO.

But ... to each his own!


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

Nevada said:


> But that's just it; they aren't selling gold. They are selling gold coins with more than 50% of the cost being speculative numismatic value. In other words, they are dealers to coin collectors. That's very different from selling gold.


From the "About Goldline" section of their website:



> For 50 years, Goldline International has served precious metals investors and collectors with a full range of products, including gold, silver and platinum coins and bars, numismatic and collectible coins, and rare currency.
> 
> Goldline products are delivered direct to your door or stored in a secure, independent facility. Goldline offers a unique Price Guarantee Program which can help protect you from short-term price changes.
> 
> Whether you&#8217;re an investor looking to diversify your portfolio or a seasoned collector seeking to establish a unique collection, Goldline&#8217;s personal Account Executives will assist you in learning about the wide array of precious metal products we offer.


That's an explaination of what they offer in farily plain English. Most of us are intelligent enough to understand that without depending on our liberal friends to explain it to us. Beck has also discussed that very point, explaining it very well, and explaining that he chooses to buy the coins for his own reasons knowing that his method is the most expensive way to buy gold. He also recommends that people examine their own situation and educate themselves on the issue, and after praying about it, make an informed decision about buying gold. That is good advice in my opinion.

Of course, you can go to them and make unwise investments, or you can go to them and make sound financial decisions based on your particular situation and goals. Of course, you can do the same thing with any investment firm in the world. 

They do sell a product, and they make it clear what they are selling. I can choose to take their advice of ignore it. I can remember you suggesting that people could make a lot of money by skirting the rules at certain Las Vegas casinos, and I wisely chose to not follow your example. Perhaps you should step out of your glass house before you start throwing stones.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> He also recommends that people examine their own situation and educate themselves on the issue, and after praying about it, make an informed decision about buying gold.


I notice he doesn't advise them to comparison-shop. I suppose praying is safe enough -- God isn't going to tell people that they could almost certainly buy the same product cheaper from another dealer!


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

I think i would prefer the worst gold deal ever to that Government Motors Volt :shrug::teehee:


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

Another one of Beck's sponsors is FoodInsurance.com. Their prices are higher than other sources, you could argue that people are being deceived into buying from a more expensive source. 

Are the moonbats going to attack them, too. Maybe Anthony Weiner should look into it.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Apparently he will hawk anything as long as he's making a buck off it. Pity the gullible people who think he's giving them good advice! Well, caveat emptor, I guess. :shrug:


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Most free advice is worth just what you pay for it . Maybe out King will take over the advertising market next :hysterical: I get mail every day trying to sell me something and the print so small you can;t read it with a microscope .

At least Beck says it check it out . My latest Dish Network flyer try to really sucker you into a contract for two years :flame:

Again i had rather have the worst gold deal in the world as a Dish .

How did some consumers make this long with out someone protecting them from their self . 

Hurry up O protect us from those awful Co trying to sell us things like those AT&T phone bundles :thumb::hysterical:


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> I notice he doesn't advise them to comparison-shop. I suppose praying is safe enough -- God isn't going to tell people that they could almost certainly buy the same product cheaper from another dealer!


Actually, I have heard him advise people to comparison shop, but most of us are smart enough to comparison shop on our own without having to be told. 
It is actually not uncommon to hear an ad for a company that doesn't recommend comparison shopping, yet this is the first time I've heard you complain about it. Why is that? Are you holding Beck's sponsors to a higher standard than everyone else?


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Apparently he will hawk anything as long as he's making a buck off it. Pity the gullible people who think he's giving them good advice! Well, caveat emptor, I guess. :shrug:


Like most people in the entertainment or news business, he makes his living through advertising. You may not believe buying gold from GL is a wise thing to do, and by not buying it you are following Beck's advice to make a decision based on your situation. 

Beck was a Goldline customer before they became a sponsor, so apparently he does believe that buying gold coins is right for his situation. That is his decision to make, but it does indicate that he does believe in the things he says about them. His opinion about the issue is different from yours, but does that make him dishonest? Is that the standard by which you judge people's honesty?

I wonder how the results of Beck's investment strategy would stack up to yours?


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Hey, Willow, don't let anyone bother you. We all need someone to slow us down and make us think. 
I like gold and wish I could buy a little more. Gold coins for their nuministic value or investments is something I run from. I am even smarter than that and I can be talked into just about anything.
Buying anything just because someone on tv says I should isn't that smart.
Like him or not, I wouldn't take his word on gold investment.
I watch him sometimes, more for the entertainment value than anything else. He is fun to watch when he gets excited about something.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Hey, Willow, don't let anyone bother you.


You should know me well enough by now to know that I don't care what people think of me IRL, let alone on a relatively anonymous Internet forum. 

At any rate, for anyone interested in ethics, this issue is interesting from a lot of angles. Companies undoubtedly choose Beck because they believe he has credibility with his listeners. But if a spokesman flogs a number of companies that sell products that are markedly more expensive than their competitors', and that engage in high-pressure sales tactics, should that make us suspicious? Is Beck really looking out for his listeners, or is he only interested in making a buck for himself? 

Then there's the whole question of the extent to which Beck's fear-mongering whips up sales of products like gold coins and MREs. Let's say you picked up your local paper found the front page plastered with stories about how real estate prices were set to skyrocket in your town and mortgage interest rates were going up. (OK, say this happened about 5 years ago -- more likely then, LOL.) Every article advised readers that if they were going to buy a home, they'd better hurry, or they'd be shut out of the market. 

Let's say you took that advice, but the boom didn't happen, and later you found out that the newspaper happened to be owned by the biggest real estate broker in the area. Would you feel you'd been duped?


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

P.S. 



> I wonder how the results of Beck's investment strategy would stack up to yours?


Seems most of my money is invested in retired dairy cows. LOL


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

I'm just curious as to why the left is attacking his advertisers. Seems rather childish to me.

Why not simply disprove what he says in his programs? 

Otherwise, you make yourselves look more silly by the day.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Good thing it's Beck pushing it, if it was Obamaco, it would be mandatory to buy it.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Txsteader said:


> I'm just curious as to why the left is attacking his advertisers. Seems rather childish to me.
> 
> Why not simply disprove what he says in his programs?
> 
> Otherwise, you make yourselves look more silly by the day.


Because Beck tells the truth about the politicians, and aside from just outright having him killed (which I'm sure hasn't been ruled out) they try to discredit him.
Since they can't discredit what he says, they try to discredit his sponsors in some kind of odd, desperate attempt to save Obama.
Won't help, too many people are waking up, and it is thanks to people like Beck who won't let the truth stay buried under a pack of lies.
I'd really like to see some Obamabats discuss Beck's message instead of resorting to Chicago style BS.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Since they can't discredit what he says,


How do you discredit speculation and suggestion? I'd venture 99% of what Beck says is nothing more than vague, ominious predictions as to what MIGHT happen. Cripe, he's more psychic than Jeanne Dixon. LOL 

But,really, how do you combat that? By suggesting the worst-case scenario _might_ not play out in every circumstance? :shrug:


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> How do you discredit speculation and suggestion? I'd venture 99% of what Beck says is nothing more than vague, ominious predictions as to what MIGHT happen. Cripe, he's more psychic than Jeanne Dixon. LOL
> 
> But,really, how do you combat that? By suggesting the worst-case scenario _might_ not play out in every circumstance? :shrug:


You don't listen very closely, do you?


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> How do you discredit speculation and suggestion? I'd venture 99% of what Beck says is nothing more than vague, ominious predictions as to what MIGHT happen. Cripe, he's more psychic than Jeanne Dixon. LOL
> 
> But,really, how do you combat that? By suggesting the worst-case scenario _might_ not play out in every circumstance? :shrug:


You'd _venture_?? So you don't bother researching whether he's correct or not, huh? 

DeaconJim's right.....you don't listen very closely. I'd add, you should try watching his TV program sometime, so you can see the videos he plays.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

I think if you are getting info from a scum like Wiener....lack of brains may be a problem.This idiot said FDR and the scumocrats DID NOT ban gold in the 30's,when proven 100% WRONG,he put the usual made for braindeads spin on it...what a marooon...


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

Txsteader said:


> You'd _venture_?? So you don't bother researching whether he's correct or not, huh?
> 
> DeaconJim's right.....you don't listen very closely. I'd add, you should try watching his TV program sometime, so you can see the videos he plays.



She doesn't listen to anything, but has an opinion about everything.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> You'd venture?? So you don't bother researching whether he's correct or not, huh?


I'd _venture_ that 99 percent (not 46 percent or 78 percent) of what he says is no more than vague blatherings designed to strike fear into the heart of his (precious-metals-buying) sheeple.



> DeaconJim's right.....you don't listen very closely. I'd add, you should try watching his TV program sometime, so you can see the videos he plays.


Sorry, I don't do TV.
And if it's anything like his website, well, I doubt I'm missing much. I've heard that his response to Weiner's criticism of the scam he and Goldline are running has been to suggest followers send him doctored photos of Weiner depicting his nose as a frankfurter. (Gee, making fun of a Jewish guy's nose -- how original!) What an articulate response, NOT! The sad part is that his brainless minions will lap this up and giggle over making sport of Weiner -- and go right on getting ripped off by Goldline. 

OTOH, why should I care whether Beck's followers get ripped off? Heck, following his logic, I should be rolling on the floor laughing at their gullibility. I'm sure he is!


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> OTOH, why should I care whether Beck's followers get ripped off?


You don't care. You've already shown what you think of them



> Heck, following his logic, I should be rolling on the floor* laughing at their gullibility*


Now that's closer to the truth


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

No, actually, I was feeling bad for the suckers! Remember, I used to write a consumer protection column ... this was something I chose to do, not something I had to do. I've always disliked people who take advantage of others. It's unkind.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> No, actually, I was feeling bad for the suckers! Remember, I used to write a consumer protection column ... this was something I chose to do, not something I had to do. I've always disliked people who take advantage of others. It's unkind.


 If you are intellectually honest(but being a dim,thats kinda impossible)you must really dislike the Obama regime:bash:


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

willow_girl said:


> I'd _venture_ that 99 percent (not 46 percent or 78 percent) of what he says is no more than vague blatherings designed to strike fear into the heart of his (precious-metals-buying) sheeple.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You don't watch Beck but you know what he says and what he means?
Beck states facts, shows how things are tied together and asks questions.
He tells others to question with boldness.
Obamaco is scared to death of him exposing their corrupt core so they get these little smear sessions started, just like they did with Palin, Rush, etc.
Low life tactics from low life gangsters.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

Roadking said:


> "But wait, there's more...purchase in the next 10 minutes, and we'll improve the ecomomy. Yes, the new ....... reform bill", whatever is in it, you can't see 'til is approved, but it will do wonders for us all, especially those that are in favor of it...Really"
> Aside from that, what idiot would invest in something as high valued as gold without doing some research...? Agreed, another straw grasp...
> Matt


Matt - this shows how utterly stupid this entire thread's premise really is. How in the "heck" can anyone say anything about anything when they absolutely BUY all this carp.
Like Corny said - they've all got Obamadrool all over them and anything they can add is just a massive dose of hyper jealousy.
Thanks for the summation.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

willow_girl said:


> Apparently he will hawk anything as long as he's making a buck off it. Pity the gullible people who think he's giving them good advice! Well, caveat emptor, I guess. :shrug:


Maybe if the progressofascists hadn't pressured every company in the universe to not advertise on his site, there wouldn't be a need.

Unfortunately (it seems), we live in a capitalist world. People expect to make money when they work... To advertise on a nationally broadcast television program costs real money. 

Would it make sense to lose money with advertisers? Is GB getting a personal check from Goldline (a percentage) of every sale? or, is Goldline paying a set rate, per commercial slot, based on viewership ratings? I think it's pretty standard to have set rates ahead of time.

Lift the boycott, and maybe some of his old sponsors will return? Of course, the chance of the Left losing their anti-capitalist genes is about as likely as snow falling tomorrow, outside my door.

Oh, and the weirdness thing.... sometimes newbies to prepping think it's going to be all kum-ba-ya when things head south. Sometimes it's best if they know the possible negatives, instead of only the possible positives...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> No, actually, I was feeling bad for the suckers!


You'd be more credible if you didn't keep calling them suckers and brainless minions 
Surely you're smarter than those who's only tactic is juvenile name calling


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

I'm a precious metal bug (bought in at $640 Au and $7 something Ag wish I had earlier) and like (not love) Glenn Beck. I think goldline is something of scam; but it is a free market. Unethical yes. Illegal no. Do you own due dillegence. Info on gold investing is not that hard to find. Thing that ----es me off is that they will use this as an excuse to impose more regulation (and thus drive up costs for the dealers and customers).


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

texican said:


> Oh, and the weirdness thing.... sometimes newbies to prepping think it's going to be all kum-ba-ya when things head south. Sometimes it's best if they know the possible negatives, instead of only the possible positives...


It is not going to be worth much if and when things hed south; hopefully after the reboot it willl carry its wealth into the future.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> If you are intellectually honest(but being a dim,thats kinda impossible)you must really dislike the Obama regime


What's a "dim"? If you mean "Democrat," no, I'm not. I'm registered as an independent. Recently I took a quiz which suggested my beliefs put me in the libertarian camp. 

And yes, I'm disappointed with the current administration. ("Regime" makes it sound slightly sinister, doesn't it?) At the outset, I had hoped the new president would be much more aggressive in repudiating (notice the "p") the policies of the last administration -- things like torture and the preemptive and needless (not to mention very costly) war against Iraq. We really went off the rails in the past decade, IMO, and I don't think it could have been proclaimed strongly enough that that is NOT what America is all about! Geez. This is the country that won WWII and liberated Europe from the Nazis. Too bad we couldn't have stopped the shot clock right there ...

The American people gave the Democratic Party a real mandate in the last election-- both branches of the legislature _and_ the presidency, and instead of taking advantage of that opportunity, they've *****footed around, trying to be all bipartisan (most likely for wrong and contemptible reasons), rather than having the courage of their convictions and carrying out that mandate. The problem is, where do we go now? Republicans drove the car into the ground for 8 years and haven't really expressed any remorse or demonstrated how they'll do any better if we give them back the keys. (Do you really believe they'll cut spending? After the free-for-all that was the Bush administration? I don't.)



> You'd be more credible if you didn't keep calling them suckers and brainless minions


Well, what SHOULD we call them? "People who have been taken advantage of" is rather cumbersome, as well as not grammatical. And I think we're much too quick to apply the "victim" label these days. To my mind, a victim is someone who could not have avoided the misfortune that befell them, whereas these folks simply apparently failed to exercise due diligence. I don't believe that rises to the status of "victimhood." YMMV.



> You don't watch Beck but you know what he says and what he means?


One word for you: Radio. 



> Beck states facts, shows how things are tied together and asks questions.


Beck, IMO, uses facts as springboards to wild speculation, building enormous castles in the air, envisioning the darkest motives and direst outcomes imaginable. Eventually, I suspect people will become weary of his "The sky is falling!" approach. Everything is always terrible and we're perpetually hovering on the brink of disaster -- but it seems it's been this way for awhile now, doesn't it? What's up with that? Hey, I'm still waiting for the opportunity to buy Rolexes on street corners for pennies on the dollar, a situation he promised was imminent a couple years ago.

I almost wonder, given the size of his listening audience (as well as that of the other doom-mongers) if we aren't venturing into the territory of the self-fulfilling prophecy. Is a business owner who listens to Beck daily going to make the bold move to expand, even if the numbers indicate conditions are favorable? Or will he hang back, convinced the country is on the brink of going down the tubes? Believe it or not, a good bit of our economy is based on something so ephemeral as consumer confidence. The fact a sizable number of people are tuning in to a steady stream of negativity has gotta have some effect. 



> Maybe if the progressofascists hadn't pressured every company in the universe to not advertise on his site, there wouldn't be a need.


Didn't he make some controversial allegations (the subject escapes me) that caused a lot of his advertisers to shy away? 

At any rate, I have no philosophical objection to consumer boycotts. It's a free country! And the conservative right wing is quick enough to use them when it suits their purposes -- for instance, by boycotting businesses that offer spousal benefits to same-sex couples or sponsor events targeted to GLBT audiences. :shrug:


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> What's a "dim"? If you mean "Democrat," no, I'm not. I'm registered as an independent. Recently I took a quiz which suggested my beliefs put me in the libertarian camp.


If that's the same quiz that most people have taken, it's designed to put everyone in the libertarian camp. I wouldn't give it too much credence.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

willow_girl said:


> What's a "dim"? If you mean "Democrat," no, I'm not. I'm registered as an independent. Recently I took a quiz which suggested my beliefs put me in the libertarian camp.
> 
> And yes, I'm disappointed with the current administration. ("Regime" makes it sound slightly sinister, doesn't it?) At the outset, I had hoped the new president would be much more aggressive in repudiating (notice the "p") the policies of the last administration -- things like torture and the preemptive and needless (not to mention very costly) war against Iraq. We really went off the rails in the past decade, IMO, and I don't think it could have been proclaimed strongly enough that that is NOT what America is all about! Geez. This is the country that won WWII and liberated Europe from the Nazis. Too bad we couldn't have stopped the shot clock right there ...
> 
> ...


Your humble opinion is just that - an opinion and doesn't seem to be too "humble" but, like other parts of the body - everybody has one - this rates right up there with that body part.
Beck will keep the "dims" astir and blathering away about his message and his "followers" - they have to, he's correct and they know it - he's totally against all they hold dear to their little cannibal, baby flushing, wealth redistribution hearts.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> If that's the same quiz that most people have taken, it's designed to put everyone in the libertarian camp. I wouldn't give it too much credence.


Is that so? Interesting. I've wondered where the Libertarians are as of late. It seems they were the original Tea Party, weren't they?! I've read and agreed with their platform as often as not (much more so than either the R or D) but the Libertarians I knew back home (the party was quite active locally) tended to be flakes, which was off-putting. 

I would say I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal. I really don't care what people do with other consenting adults in their private lives as long as they're paying their own way. In an era of multinational corporations, I don't have a problem with government regulation of business when it benefits the citizenry -- in fact, given the size and power of some corporations, I think it's essential, and we'd be naive to believe otherwise. I think America meddles entirely too much in the rest of the world's affairs. I believe our current economic straits stem from the fact we didn't love our neighbor -- we didn't care if he kept his job as long as could buy cheap stuff; and we didn't care whether our neighbor in Mexico or China worked under safe conditions and made a living wage. We're reaping what we sowed and we're not going to enjoy much.

People like to blame the government for all our country's problems, but I think the people themselves are to blame. (Heck, they elected that government!) Likewise, the solution, if it comes, will be the result of people making better choices, not just government.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Quit confusing "them" with logic willow.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

bowdonkey said:


> Quit confusing "them" with logic willow.


"They" aren't at all confused - "they" do not always fall for the liberal double talk. When a socialist attempts to torpedo anything that is NOT socialism there might be some sort of "logic" involved - hey, maybe that IS socialist logic and I'm so sorry that so many ARE confused by this sort of "logic".


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## MaveRick* (Jun 21, 2010)

This is where gold is on my survival and prep list:

1. One year supply of food.

2. Three year supply of ammo.

3. Three or more years supply of homesteading supplies and gear.

4. 5 to 40 acre plot of farm-able land. 

5. Renewable energy setup

6. One year fuel supply and bio-fuel equipment.

7. Good quality tractor and implements.

8. ATV and trailer for quick bug out.

9.

10. (I will fill these in when I remember what I left off my list)

11.

12. Gold


So far, I have 1,2 and 3. As you can see, I have a long way to go before I can even consider buying gold. Gold would be useful if we are able to reestablish secure markets. If everyone is struggling to produce enough just to stay alive and not getting raided by looters, gold would be just useless dead weight.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> "They" aren't at all confused - "they" do not always fall for the liberal double talk. When a socialist attempts to torpedo anything that is NOT socialism there might be some sort of "logic" involved - hey, maybe that IS socialist logic and I'm so sorry that so many ARE confused by this sort of "logic".


Of course I must be a socialist; after all, I work two jobs (including owning my own small business, as does my husband). Clearly I'm just looking for a free ride at the taxpayer's expense.


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## Gercarson (Nov 2, 2003)

MaveRick* said:


> This is where gold is on my survival and prep list:
> 
> 1. One year supply of food.
> 
> ...


Very good - I would move everything down from number 2 and insert a water supply there. The ammo supply ... I was wondering whether or not to make that number 1? Tough choice there.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

It would be a little hard for me to judge what a years supply of food really is.
Hunting and fishing would supply most of my food supply.

A 3 year supply of ammo would be how many bullets? What if I had a fire fight in the first 3 weeks and had to use much of my ammo. I think I would rather have a bow, slingshot, and snares with ammo for defense purpose only.

Homesteading supplies and gear could be made or built.

Good tractor and implements would be useless in my SHTF as there wouldn't be any fuel for them. ATV and trailer would be in the same shape.

Renewable energy setup would be worth a lot.

One year fuel supply could be a large tank, might show up when people started looking around. Could attract a lot of unwanted attention.

Land would be a good thing to have but in my SHTF you would be able to choose what land you wanted as long as you could defend it.

In just about anybody's SHTF gold could buy all of these things. Could be hidden, is very easy to carry. I think gold and silver might be closer to the top of my list.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Nevada said:


> GM isn't purporting themselves to be selling metal commodity investments.
> 
> This is a clear case of an investment firm offering bad advice and taking advantage of customers. While probably not illegal, this is just about as bad of a thing to happen to their image as possible.
> 
> What's not clear is whether Beck knew anything about the quality of the investment. It's entirely possible that he didn't know, but his image will probably take a hit anyway.


It is a clear case of a difference of opinion, nothing more.


Now the big banks sell gold that is not really gold, because they have not got enough gold to deliver what they sold. Contracts for future gold deliveries. Only paper. The gold is not there. The difference here is that the big banks own and operate the U.S. Government. So whatever they do legal or not there is no consequence. 

Real gold in hand is Gold. Anything else is an opinion, a theory. Can the people who put out the theory be trusted? Who knows, it's a matter of opinion.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

Nevada said:


> But that's just it; they aren't selling gold. They are selling gold coins with more than 50% of the cost being speculative numismatic value. In other words, they are dealers to coin collectors. That's very different from selling gold.


Just for the record, they do sell gold as well as gold coins. In fact, they also sell platinum and other things. You can learn about these things by going to their website at http://www.goldline.com/goldcoinsbullion. It's amazing what a little (and by little, I mean very little) investigation can do for you.

So, now that I've demonstrated the fact that, rather than either Goldline or Glenn Beck misrepresenting what Goldline offers, it would appear that you and their other critics are guilty of the very same thing you are accusing them of doing. 

Facts do make being a Democrat difficult, don't they?


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Jim, if you look at the log of complaints filed with the FTC and other agencies, a pattern emerges, which goes roughly like this: 

A Beck listener calls the company seeking to buy bullion as a hedge against TSHTF, TEOTWAWKI, etc. The Goldline salesman (likely realizing he's dealing with a rookie) then attempts to 'upsell' the customer, aggressively pushing numismatic coins, which have a higher profit margin for the company (but do not really meet the customer's needs). The complainant caves to the high-pressure sales techniques and purchases the coins, but finds out afterward that he paid much more for them than the "going rate." When he calls the company to try to get his money back, he's given the run-around, or subjected to additional sales pitches aimed at persuading him to keep the coins.

Now, should such "bait and switch" tactics be illegal? I don't think so; I think it's the customer's responsibility to exercise due diligence. OTOH, they're sleazy! Would an honorable person represent a company that does business this way?


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## MaveRick* (Jun 21, 2010)

pancho said:


> It would be a little hard for me to judge what a years supply of food really is.
> Hunting and fishing would supply most of my food supply.
> 
> A 3 year supply of ammo would be how many bullets? What if I had a fire fight in the first 3 weeks and had to use much of my ammo. I think I would rather have a bow, slingshot, and snares with ammo for defense purpose only.
> ...



Great idea! In fact, you should forget all about prepping for any type of disaster. Collect as much gold as you possibly can. Sell everything you have now and just collect gold. Don't worry about your food supply, there will always be grocery stores for whatever you need. Even if the stores did close, anybody will gladly sell even their last can of beans for your gold. You can also rely on the factories never closing. Having gold means you never have to worry about anything, ever. Good Luck!


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## onthespot (Oct 7, 2007)

That's what they say in this article
http://theburningplatform.com/blog/2010/08/01/gold-bugs-rejoice/


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## MaveRick* (Jun 21, 2010)

He concluded his remarks with the following advice: âYou need to hold âgood moneyâ and the ultimate âstores of valueâ â the only âgood moneyâ â is gold and silver and thus the best protection from the events that lie ahead.â

I'm not a financial wiz so you can sell me all your guns and ammo so you can buy more gold! You're never going to need them anyway!


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

MaveRick* said:


> Great idea! In fact, you should forget all about prepping for any type of disaster. Collect as much gold as you possibly can. Sell everything you have now and just collect gold. Don't worry about your food supply, there will always be grocery stores for whatever you need. Even if the stores did close, anybody will gladly sell even their last can of beans for your gold. You can also rely on the factories never closing. Having gold means you never have to worry about anything, ever. Good Luck!


Guess you didn't really read what I posted or didn't understand. Not your fault, sometimes I have a hard time posting what I really mean.

At this time I do not use grocery stores very much. If they all closed today I would not be effected. I live in a bio-shelter. I have no use for canned foods as I raise my own food year round. Same with meat animals. I raise my own.

Same for factories. I make or build just about everything I use. Built my bio-shelter by myself, every board and screw.

I am very good at hunting and fishing and foraging. I can live off the land for a very long time. I can use a bow, trap, and snare plenty of food animals.

About the only need I will have if SHTF is paying taxes, if there is still anyone collecting them. I don't think paper money is going to work and don't think the local bank will help. Gold and silver will always be of value and that is what I plan on using.

Thanks, I usually tend to make my own luck.
I am prepared mentally and physically for whatever happens.
Food, no problem.
Shelter, no problem.
Weapons, no problem.
Ability to use weapons, no problem.

As you can see, I won't have near the problems as many will. It won't be much difference in my day-to-day living.
Just need a little something to keep any government groups at a distance. The gold and silver should help.

How are you prepared?


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

Gercarson said:


> "They" aren't at all confused - "they" do not always fall for the liberal double talk. When a socialist attempts to torpedo anything that is NOT socialism there might be some sort of "logic" involved - hey, maybe that IS socialist logic and I'm so sorry that so many ARE confused by this sort of "logic".


You sound confused Ger. No worries mate, it's nothing a tumbler of iced Wild Turkey can't fix. Cheers.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

poncho maybe you need to type slower :cowboy::bouncy:


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Jim, if you look at the log of complaints filed with the FTC and other agencies, a pattern emerges, which goes roughly like this:
> 
> A Beck listener calls the company seeking to buy bullion as a hedge against TSHTF, TEOTWAWKI, etc. The Goldline salesman (likely realizing he's dealing with a rookie) then attempts to 'upsell' the customer, aggressively pushing numismatic coins, which have a higher profit margin for the company (but do not really meet the customer's needs). The complainant caves to the high-pressure sales techniques and purchases the coins, but finds out afterward that he paid much more for them than the "going rate." When he calls the company to try to get his money back, he's given the run-around, or subjected to additional sales pitches aimed at persuading him to keep the coins.
> 
> Now, should such "bait and switch" tactics be illegal? I don't think so; I think it's the customer's responsibility to exercise due diligence. OTOH, they're sleazy! Would an honorable person represent a company that does business this way?


How is that any different than what happens when you pay a visit to your local GM dealership? It's a common sales tactic, and I don't see anyone attacking shows that generate revenue from GM ads.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

And everyone knows car salesmen are sleazy, right?

When you do business with a car salesman, you know (or should know) he's not your friend. 

The consent judgment in the Missouri case acknowledged that the Goldline sales representative in the case was acting as a financial adviser, without being licensed to do so. 

A financial adviser has a fiduciary duty to make recommendations that are in the client's best interest. A salesman, of course, has no such duty. A client who fails to distinguish properly between the two is in jeopardy. 

Do other Goldline sales representative cross this line, encouraging (perhaps subtly) their clients to think of them as advisers rather than salesmen? I suspect the recently-launched investigation may shed some light on the company's business practices.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Jim, if you look at the log of complaints filed with the FTC and other agencies, a pattern emerges, which goes roughly like this:
> 
> A Beck listener calls the company seeking to buy bullion as a hedge against TSHTF, TEOTWAWKI, etc. The Goldline salesman (likely realizing he's dealing with a rookie) then attempts to 'upsell' the customer, aggressively pushing numismatic coins, which have a higher profit margin for the company (but do not really meet the customer's needs). The complainant caves to the high-pressure sales techniques and purchases the coins, but finds out afterward that he paid much more for them than the "going rate." When he calls the company to try to get his money back, he's given the run-around, or subjected to additional sales pitches aimed at persuading him to keep the coins.
> 
> Now, should such "bait and switch" tactics be illegal? I don't think so; I think it's the customer's responsibility to exercise due diligence. OTOH, they're sleazy! Would an honorable person represent a company that does business this way?


Then, I'd have to say that the buyer/Beck listener isn't doing what Beck advised, which is to do your own research. 

And I think DeaconJim's car salesman comparison is a valid one. Bottom line, it's the consumer's *responsibility* to know what they're buying & what the contract says before signing on the dotted line.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> And I think DeaconJim's car salesman comparison is a valid one. Bottom line, it's the consumer's responsibility to know what they're buying & what the contract says before signing on the dotted line.


I agree. There is only so much society can do to protect people from their own foolishness. And there's a *lot* of foolishness out there, as I learned in a couple years of writing about scams. 

That said, some businesses are sleazier than others. If I were in the market for gold, I think I'd pass on Goldline.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> I agree. There is only so much society can do to protect people from their own foolishness. And there's a *lot* of foolishness out there, as I learned in a couple years of writing about scams.
> 
> That said, some businesses are sleazier than others. If I were in the market for gold, I think I'd pass on Goldline.


Naw who would of thunk it :grumble: And that is before a real phone call :bouncy:


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

Common Tator said:


> Have you ever visited the Survival & Emergency Preparedness forum right here at Homesteading today? Many (if not most) of us do feel a sense of urgency to be prepared. You are insulting a large percentage of the posters here. Many of whom, prepare without ever having watched Glen Beck. And there is much more to preparedness than buying gold. Please educate yourself.


Well put. I never watched Glen Beck, never even heard of him, until I started reading through the forums here, but I knew that things were going bad and came here to learn as much as a I could about homesteading and being self-sufficient.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> I agree. There is only so much society can do to protect people from their own foolishness. And there's a *lot* of foolishness out there, as I learned in a couple years of writing about scams.
> 
> That said, some businesses are sleazier than others. If I were in the market for gold, I think I'd pass on Goldline.


We agree on this point. I've never done business with Goldline, and probably never will. I don't vouch for their honesty, but I certainly don't fault others for doing paid advertisements for them. Every major media outlet in the country has run ads for the DNC, and we all know what liars and cheats they are.

If someone has a beef with Beck, they should show the intellectual honesty and courage to debate him on the points he makes rather than attacking those who do business with him. That is way too close to attempting to stifle political speech, especially when those who are leading the attacks work in the White House.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Sawmill Jim said:


> poncho maybe you need to type slower :cowboy::bouncy:


If I get any slower I had might as well stop completely. I type with two fingers.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Hey Willow, just about everyone that trys to sell you something isn't that concerned with your benefit. Most financial advisors want to be paid for their advice. If they do it for free you usually get your moneys worth.
Especially if they are on TV giving advice. Might as well go to Earl Hickey for financial advice.


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## Txsteader (Aug 22, 2005)

deaconjim said:


> If someone has a beef with Beck, they should show the intellectual honesty and courage to debate him on the points he makes rather than attacking those who do business with him. That is way too close to attempting to stifle political speech, especially when those who are leading the attacks work in the White House.


Well said, Jim.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

I dunno; I don't have a problem with politicians going after scammers. If it prevents somebody from getting ripped off, that's a good thing, right? 

Back home, the Attorney General's office had a long history of scam-busting. (Both R and D AGs carried the torch.) They even did a kind of scanner sting operation, where they went into stores, bought items, and recorded how often they were incorrectly charged by electronic scanners. (Funny, the overcharges always were more frequent than the undercharges, for some reason!) Then they published lists of which stores had the most and least accurate scanners. After a few years of doing this (and publicizing the results) almost all the stores surveyed had increased their accuracy! Coincidence? I think not!


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> I dunno; I don't have a problem with politicians going after scammers. If it prevents somebody from getting ripped off, that's a good thing, right?
> 
> Back home, the Attorney General's office had a long history of scam-busting. (Both R and D AGs carried the torch.) They even did a kind of scanner sting operation, where they went into stores, bought items, and recorded how often they were incorrectly charged by electronic scanners. (Funny, the overcharges always were more frequent than the undercharges, for some reason!) Then they published lists of which stores had the most and least accurate scanners. After a few years of doing this (and publicizing the results) almost all the stores surveyed had increased their accuracy! Coincidence? I think not!


There is nothing wrong with enforcing the law, unless that enforcement is being done to silence political criticism. If that is the case, I am more concerned with the scams being perpetrated by the politicians than I am a dishonest business. People have their money stolen every day, and they can usually make more to replace it. Once our freedoms are gone however, they ae lost forever.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> There is nothing wrong with enforcing the law, unless that enforcement is being done to silence political criticism.


I guess this is where we differ. I don't care what the motivation is for exposing the scammer, or who shines the light on bad business practices -- whether it's the AG, a politician, BBB, Angie's List, whatever -- it's in the public's best interest, as long as the claims being made are true. (And we have laws against slander and defamation to protect against false accusations.)

I also don't see how a scammer being exposed results in citizens-at-large losing some freedom. And why should we assume that someone exposing a scammer automatically is corrupt? 

The fact the "crusader" may be motivated by political animosity doesn't change the fact that exposing the scam may prevent some people from being ripped off -- and that's a GOOD outcome! In this case, the end justifies the means, IMO.


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## Jolly (Jan 8, 2004)

willow_girl said:


> And everyone knows car salesmen are sleazy, right?
> 
> When you do business with a car salesman, you know (or should know) he's not your friend.
> 
> ...


Mighty big paint brush you're using...sure you can pick it up?


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> I guess this is where we differ. I don't care what the motivation is for exposing the scammer, or who shines the light on bad business practices -- whether it's the AG, a politician, BBB, Angie's List, whatever -- it's in the public's best interest, as long as the claims being made are true. (And we have laws against slander and defamation to protect against false accusations.)
> 
> The fact the "crusader" may be motivated by political animosity doesn't change the fact that exposing the scam may prevent some people from being ripped off -- and that's a GOOD outcome! In this case, the end justifies the means, IMO.


You don't have a problem with politicians using the police powers of gvernment to silence their political opponents? Wow, you are a trusting soul, aren't you?

I'm not that naive. I can see the difference in magnitude between a scam being perpetrated by a business and a politician abusing his office. If a politician uses the government to silence his opponents, alarm bells start going off everywhere. That is a gross misuse of power and authority, and is a genuine threat to freedom. This is why we have a bill of rights.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> You don't have a problem with politicians using the police powers of gvernment to silence their political opponents?


As I said earlier, if the "opponent" is genuinely running a scam, I have no problem with it being exposed. 

Regardless of the motivation of the person doing the exposing, it's a good thing when scams come to light. 

The only sacred cows in my world are the 4 in my pasture.


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> In this case, the end justifies the means, IMO.


End Justifies the Means--the basic tenant of ulitiarianism and one of the main philisophies of communism (which, along with fascim is a ulitiarian branch).


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Yes, when all else fails, toss around words like "communism" and "fascism." 

So, if I understand your logical correctly, it's OK for people to be scammed, as long as we _like_ or agree with people doing the scamming?

When is it OK for the truth to come out, and when should it be hidden? 

Sunshine all around, I say.


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Yes, when all else fails, toss around words like "communism" and "fascism."
> 
> So, if I understand your logical correctly, it's OK for people to be scammed, as long as we _like_ or agree with people doing the scamming?
> 
> ...


Do your own diligence; it is about a 2nd google search to research gold. 

It is very simple. Seller meets buyer. Seller offers to sell an item for certain price. Buyer accepts said price and pays his/her fiat. Simple undergraduate contract law. If the buyer later thinks he/she paid too much, then tough do do unless the seller has a return policy (which is part of the contract). The seller has no (in simple contract law) duty to inform the buyer of anything except the price he/she is willing take for their property. This is not like contracting for a service where the quality of work being performed is important (i.e. a new roof),


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Sure. It's possible that Goldline is doing nothing illegal (although the Missouri consent judgment suggests otherwise) but even if a company stays on the right side of the law, knowing that it has a history of using high-pressure sales tactics and "bait and switch" (bullion to numismatic coins, in this case) techniques may be helpful to a customer who is evaluating whether they want to do business with a particular company. 

I say let the information come out, and let people make of it what they will. :shrug:


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

I'll be the first to say I would not buy from Goldine. However, if I call wanting some Gold 1 Ouce Maples and I know what spot is (2 second google search) and I did a cursory search of other dealers (10 minutes max) to see how much premiums were and they try to sell me some old french coins at 2x the melt value, I might just say "I'll get back to you" and do a 20 minute read up on exactly what I might be buying. Caveat emptor.


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Sure. It's possible that Goldline is doing nothing illegal (although the Missouri consent judgment suggests otherwise


That's called legistlating off the bench.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Whatever you call it, the settlement Goldline signed off on acknowledged that its salesmen had behaved in a way they were not licensed to (i.e., as financial advisors), and the company agreed to make the customer whole. 



> I'll be the first to say I would not buy from Goldine. However, if I call wanting some Gold 1 Ouce Maples and I know what spot is (2 second google search) and I did a cursory search of other dealers (10 minutes max) to see how much premiums were and they try to sell me some old french coins at 2x the melt value, I might just say "I'll get back to you" and do a 20 minute read up on exactly what I might be buying. Caveat emptor.


Would that everyone were such a savvy customer. In a couple years of writing about scams, you wouldn't BELIEVE the stuff I came across! It's sad. 

As I said earlier, there is only so much society can do to protect people from their own stupidity. Some will simply *insist* on sending that Western Union funds transfer off to Nigeria! *sigh* 

Luckily there are some sources of information and ways people can become informated and protect themselves -- the BBB, Angie's List, AG investigations, columns like the one I wrote, the warnings that pop up on Craigslist when you click on certain forums, even the ability to do a Google search. Etc. Last time I was in my bank, they had signs up at all the teller windows warning people withdrawing funds that if certain conditions were present, they might be the target of a scam. I think there's even a TV show that sets up various scams and shows unsuspecting people being victimized (although they give them their money back afterward, LOL). 

Those are all good things, IMO.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> As I said earlier, if the "opponent" is genuinely running a scam, I have no problem with it being exposed.
> 
> Regardless of the motivation of the person doing the exposing, it's a good thing when scams come to light.
> 
> The only sacred cows in my world are the 4 in my pasture.


You're blurring the lines here. Glenn Beck is providing a service (advertising) for his customer (Goldline) for a fee. The Obama administration is trying to shut Beck down, first by trying to orchestrate boycotts of Beck and his advertisers, and having failed at that, they are now conducting investigations to intimidate existing advertisers as well as potential new advertisers.


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

deaconjim said:


> You're blurring the lines here. Glenn Beck is providing a service (advertising) for his customer (Goldline) for a fee. The Obama administration is trying to shut Beck down, first by trying to orchestrate boycotts of Beck and his advertisers, and having failed at that, they are now conducting investigations to intimidate existing advertisers as well as potential new advertisers.



Don't confuse her with the facts. She can't deal with the truth. She doesn't want to believe that there is an unwarranted scam on an A+ rated business brought on by a D- rated politician.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Dr. Mom said:


> Don't confuse her with the facts. She can't deal with the truth. She doesn't want to believe that there is an unwarranted scam on an A+ rated business brought on by a D- rated politician.


D rated politician wow you in a good mood today giving out such high ratings:icecream:


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

Sawmill Jim said:


> D rated politician wow you in a good mood today giving out such high ratings:icecream:


It was actually D minus. 

I graded on a curve. :nana:


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Well i notice the d and f are side be side though maybe you zigged when you meant zag :bow::teehee:


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> You're blurring the lines here. Glenn Beck is providing a service (advertising) for his customer (Goldline) for a fee. The Obama administration is trying to shut Beck down, first by trying to orchestrate boycotts of Beck and his advertisers, and having failed at that, they are now conducting investigations to intimidate existing advertisers as well as potential new advertisers.


Was the investigation politically motivated? Undoubtedly; but it still turned up information useful to consumers. I don't have a problem with that.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Was the investigation politically motivated? Undoubtedly; but it still turned up information useful to consumers. I don't have a problem with that.


That's like saying you don't mind a tornado because it clears the leaves off your lawn. Any threat to consumers' finances pales in comparison to the threat to the consumers' freedom.

Sorry, your partisanship is showing.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> Was the investigation politically motivated? Undoubtedly; but it still turned up information useful to consumers. I don't have a problem with that.


Not many do till it is their turn in the barrel :shrug:


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> That's like saying you don't mind a tornado because it clears the leaves off your lawn. Any threat to consumers' finances pales in comparison to the threat to the consumers' freedom.


Exposing bad business practices threatens our freedom ... how?

'Cause I'm not seeing a connection there, frankly.


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Exposing bad business practices threatens our freedom ... how?
> 
> 'Cause I'm not seeing a connection there, frankly.


If you don't see the danger in what is happening, you are incapable of understanding freedom. I know that you are too intelligent for that. Frankly, I'd rather believe you are being deliberately obtuse because you don't want to face the truth about what your side is doing.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> If you don't see the danger in what is happening, you are incapable of understanding freedom. I know that you are too intelligent for that. Frankly, I'd rather believe you are being deliberately obtuse because you don't want to face the truth about what your side is doing.


Nope, I'm serious. I wrote dozens, perhaps hundreds, of articles exposing scammers (sometimes my own investigations, mostly recapping the work of others). It never once occurred to me that I was destroying consumers' freedom by warning them of unethical business practices. :shrug:


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> 'Cause I'm not seeing a connection there, frankly.


LOL Yes you do.



> Was the investigation *politically motivated*? Undoubtedly


You're just pretending not to understand what's being said here


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Nope, I'm serious. I wrote dozens, perhaps hundreds, of articles exposing scammers (sometimes my own investigations, mostly recapping the work of others). It never once occurred to me that I was destroying consumers' freedom by warning them of unethical business practices. :shrug:


If your consumer protection skills were as well developed as your willful ignorance, you'd have your own network TV show by now.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Hurling insults does not answer the question.

_How are our "freedoms" being threatened by bad business practices being disclosed?_

I suppose you will argue that such investigations have a chilling effect that will drive away advertisers, but if a business is doing nothing wrong, it should have nothing to fear. Right?

And certainly right-wing organizations are free to investigate the sponsors of left-wing commentators if they wish. As I said earlier, _let the chips fall where the may. The consumer is the ultimate beneficiary when bad business practices are exposed._


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Hurling insults does not answer the question.
> 
> _How are our "freedoms" being threatened by bad business practices being disclosed?_


It was not intended to be an insult, just an observation. If you find that insulting, perhaps you should be be willing to see what is in front of you. Of course, the choice is yours. 



willow_girl said:


> I suppose you will argue that such investigations have a chilling effect that will drive away advertisers, but if a business is doing nothing wrong, it should have nothing to fear. Right?


And if you have nothing illegal in your house, then you don't mind the police searching your house without a warrant, right?



willow_girl said:


> And certainly right-wing organizations are free to investigate the sponsors of left-wing commentators if they wish. As I said earlier, _let the chips fall where the may. The consumer is the ultimate beneficiary when bad business practices are exposed._


Yes, but those "right-wing organizations" don't have the police power of the White House. You can see the danger in this, or you could if it were being done by a Republican administration. It's okay though, as long as it's the One doing it.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Hi Willow,
Have you given any thought that Beck is doing a paid advertisement much like any other actor? You can see them every day trying to sell some products. That does not mean they believe in or use the product. They are paid to say what they are saying.
I can think of several actors advertising products that I am sure they have never tried. What about those actors advertising medical supplies. Those advertising the reverse mortgages. There are even thoe who advertise certain foods. In my opinion these could be considered about the same as Beck, they do as much damage with their adds as Beck does with his. The same could be said of those advertising cars for sale. It would seem like many more people are taken advantage of by car dealers that gold dealers.

Beck, along with all of the others are paid for their time. No one with common sense should believe everything an actor says. Especiually when the actor is being paid for their work.

I can understand your side also. You are more intelligent than that. I can understand not liking a person, not liking their belief. I know you can see why there is no more need for government intervention with Beck than there is Sally Fields, Walter Brumley, or any of the other actors. 

I have faith in you. I know you can see the danger of investigating actors work just because of their political beliefs. Especially when most any normal person can tell it is only a paid advertisement


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Yes, but those "right-wing organizations" don't have the police power of the White House.


I fail to see where the congressman who conducted this investigation used any extraordinary means to do so. It looks like he reviewed the complaints filed against Goldline with various agencies and obtained product pricing from the company itself. I don't see anything out of line there. :shrug:



> You can see the danger in this, or you could if it were being done by a Republican administration. It's okay though, as long as it's the One doing it.


I have repeatedly stated I have no problem with Rs going after Ds or Ds going after Rs. In either case, if bad business practices are exposed, the consumer benefits. Do I have to say that one more time? It appears so. *sigh*

The kind of partisanship to which you're referring is one of the things ruining this country, IMO. Too many people will excuse any kind of wrongdoing as long as "their side" benefits from it.



> Hi Willow,
> Have you given any thought that Beck is doing a paid advertisement much like any other actor? You can see them every day trying to sell some products. That does not mean they believe in or use the product. They are paid to say what they are saying.


True, they're only paid shills, but their reputation reflects on the product, and vice versa (or it should). 

Beck undoubtedly commands a premium from advertisers because he can demonstrate that many of his listeners believe what he says. Therefore, when he tells listeners, "You can trust Goldline," that message will have more credibility than if it were delivered by, say, Billy Mays (yeah, I realize he's dead). 

In Beck's case, apparently he and his advertisers have little to fear, as his listeners apparently are so slavishly devoted to him that they'll ignore any evidence that a business he shills for acted improperly. I'd be willing to bet that a few Beck fans ran right out and bought overpriced French rooster coins from Goldline just to spite Weiner! (Not really, but it's a funny thought.) 

I'm going to work now for the rest of the day... ya'll have fun in my absence!


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## palani (Jun 12, 2005)

Gold might be considered a masculine investment. Females seem to concentrate on precious stones. Then possibly the stone is not the investment but what it represents.


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

She refuses to acknowledge the 600-pound Weiner in the room.  

Here are several sites that indicate gold as being a bad investment in Obama's economy. 

http://www.newsmax.com/Ruddy/beck-goldline-weiner-currency/2010/05/25/id/360114



> Gold has become an enemy of the state.
> 
> It is an enemy because it is an ancient store of value. It even can act like a currency. In fact, as currencies lose confidence, as we have seen with the dollar and the euro, investors often buy gold.
> 
> ...




http://biggovernment.com/amellon/20...ck-and-goldline-amateur-arrogant-and-asinine/



> Of course, it is the unscrupulous businessmen and their shills in the media who are preying on peopleâs fears to make a buck. Guess what Mr. Weiner? It is because people like you are running our nation that is precisely why people are turning to gold, and precisely why places like Goldline can charge a premium.



http://www.rbr.com/media-news/24319.html



> Beck discussed Weinerâs attack on his Premiere Networks radio show, calling it part of a smear campaign engineered against himself and Goldline by the Obama administration. He wondered if other organizations besides those airing conservative talkers, and running Goldline ads, would also be targeted.
> 
> Beck also said that his money is where his mouth is on this one. âIf my people that do financial advising â because I'm worth â you don't listen to me for financial advice and that's why I've said don't â I buy it not as an investment. I buy it as insurance policy. If my people, my advisors would allow me to buy 50%, I'd have 50% of my savings in gold. But they all say that's nuts. 10%, no more than 10%, no more than 10%. I think I have 15? 15, maybe 20% of mine in gold. From Goldline. Now, you tell me. If I'm such a scam artist, why would I be scamming myself?â
> 
> According to Politico, Goldline also responded. Goldline president and CEO Mark Albarian said, âIt feels like itâs politically motivated in that neither the Congressman nor anybody from his office ever contacted executives from the company to really ask the important questions that they need to ask to understand this business.â He claimed that Weiner âdoesnât getâ the gold business and suggested that the companyâs relationship with Beck was the true motivation for the attack.




http://news.coinupdate.com/rep-anthony-weiner-attacks-goldline-and-glenn-beck-0282/



> The political angle of this attack seems obvious to me. Buying physical gold and silver can be interpreted as a rejection of paper currencies and government regulations. Owning precious metals may signify a degree of mistrust in the government. If you own an ounce of gold or silver, the government cannot inflate it! Therefore, the politicians and bureaucrats with the political power have an incentive to discourage people from buying physical gold and silver. An attack on a major dealer that makes the whole industry look bad can help accomplish such a goal.
> 
> As questionable as some of Goldlineâs business practices may be, the amount of money âlostâ by their customers is insignificant compared to losses sustained by those who invested in Enron, Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers, General Motors, AIG, Wachovia Bank, Washington Mutual, Chrysler, the other 200+ US banks that have failed in the past three years, and most US-dollar denominated government and corporate paper assets. Further, the massive federal budget deficits are harming Americans more than all the alleged misdeeds by all coin and bullion dealers put together. Even at the high prices that Goldline may have charged customers a decade ago, I suspect that many are now in a profit position.
> 
> I would not be at all surprised to learn that the attack on Goldline had more to do with political retribution against people who value their freedom and are trying to protect their wealth than any concern by politicians and bureaucrats for the well-being of the citizenry. The attack also helps divert attention from the growing political and financial mess for which governments shoulder a major part of the blame.



The govt is attacking the gold industry in general and is using Weiner as the attack dog.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> Here are several sites that indicate gold as being a bad investment in Obama's economy.


Generally the purpose of investing is to make a profit. "Buy cheap, sell dear," is the time-honored formula for success. With gold approaching record-breaking prices, it may indeed be a bad time to buy.



> As questionable as some of Goldlineâs business practices may be,





> Even at the high prices that Goldline may have charged customers a decade ago,


Sounds like Goldline has been scamming its customers for awhile now. Good that someone finally had the testicular fortitude to call them on it!


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Generally the purpose of investing is to make a profit. "Buy cheap, sell dear," is the time-honored formula for success. With gold approaching record-breaking prices, it may indeed be a bad time to buy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's funny that you aren't bothered by the fact that Obama is scamming the very same consumers, on a much bigger scale.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Gold has been a pretty good investment for some time. I bought in when gold was at $32. I am satisfied with what I have made. Gold has done quite a bit better than many other investments.
Gold is sometimes seen not as much as an investment as a safe place to put money. Since gold will always have value there isn't a chance that your money will be lost completely. Many stocks can be completely gone over night. If a person has an amount of cash they do not want to take any chance of loosing gold is a good place to put it.
Gold is much like anything else if a person is looking for an investment. You have to buy cheap and sell high. For the last year or so it is just about the only really safe investment.


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

willow_girl said:


> Generally the purpose of investing is to make a profit. "Buy cheap, sell dear," is the time-honored formula for success. With gold approaching record-breaking prices, it may indeed be a bad time to buy.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like Goldline has been scamming its customers for awhile now. Good that someone finally had the testicular fortitude to call them on it!


It is the consumer's job to do their homework and shop around for the best gold prices. It is NOT the federal government's job to protect the consumer if they chose to make an unwise purchase. 

There is a grocery store in town that charges more for it's items than another grocery store in town. Should the federal govt start telling everyone to stop buying their groceries there because I choose to shop there? I don't think so. That's my business and the consumer's business to shop wherever we want to. 

Again, this is only a smear campaign by the federal government against Beck for being a client of Goldline. It might also be a way to discourage people from buying gold instead of spending their money or saving it, where it can be monitored and taxed.

All I can say is that the feds need to stay out of our lives and quit telling us what is best for us. And stop sending members of congress out to do the dirty work. Especially one who already has campaign financial allegations.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> It is the consumer's job to do their homework and shop around for the best gold prices. It is NOT the federal government's job to protect the consumer if they chose to make an unwise purchase.


This is a grey area. A lot of consumer protection laws do just that. Others require companies to give consumers information that will help them make wise choices. For instance, if I apply for a mortgage, the bank is required by law to enumerate its fees and to tell me how much the loan will cost over its lifespan. If I buy a house, in some states the previous owner will be required to disclose any known defects. I think those are good laws. 

I think it's possible to strike a balance that doesn't overly burden the seller, but that helps the consumer make an informed decision. In the case of gold, perhaps we might require the seller to state the weight of the gold in the coin in ounces, the spot price of gold near the time of the transaction, and the resulting value of the gold in the coin. To extend a metaphor used earlier, the person who is interested in buying a mint-condition '59 T-bird will not be fazed by learning its scrap price, while the person who's really in the market for scrap metal will be tipped off to the fact someone's trying to selling him a classic car instead! No one loses in this equation except an unscrupulous dealer.


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

There is no grey area, except between your ears. 

You are purposely avoiding and talking around the fact that Goldline and Beck were deliberately slandered by the federal govt. Obama sent his pit bill named Weiner to defame them. This is intimidation and harassment to stifle dissent. 

I have to go now, Beck is coming on soon. I'm going to watch him while I still can . . . before Obama decides to stifle the media next. 

By that time buying gold at the right price will be the least of your worries.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

pancho said:


> . . . . . I bought in when gold was at $32. I am satisfied with what I have made. Gold has done quite a bit better than many other investments.
> . . . . . .Many stocks can be completely gone over night. If a person has an amount of cash they do not want to take any chance of loosing gold is a good place to put it.
> Gold is much like anything else if a person is looking for an investment. You have to buy cheap and sell high. For the last year or so it is just about the only really safe investment.



Have you sold some of your gold? If not, then you haven't made any money. Yes, your gold is WORTH more than you orginally paid for it (right now), but until you actually sell your gold and have cash in hand, you haven't made ANY profit.

(The same for stocks. You can buy a stock at $15.00 / share and if the following year it's worth $30.00 / share a person could say "I made money in stocks - I doubled my money." But until you actually sell the stock and have cash in hand, the only "profit" made is on paper.

"Many stocks can be completely gone overnight."  Perhaps a handful of companies their stock prices plummeted overnight. If you invest in a good solid company, chances are you aren't going to lose money on that stock overtime.

"For the last year or so it (gold) is just about the only safe investment." REALLY?!? Here is a list of a few stocks prices today versus a year ago today:
COMPANY TODAY'S PRICE YEAR AGO PRICE

Apple INC $261.70 / share $165.11 / share 
Campbell Soup $36.29 / share $30.75 / share
Caterpillar INC $71.96 / share $46.64 / share
Corning, INC $19.22 / share $16.58 / share 
Dominion Resources $43.55 / share $33.67 / share 
Exxon/Mobil $62.71 / share $70.03 / share
Hewlitt Packard $46.35 / share $43.26 / share 
Kraft Foods $29.66 / share $28.33 / share 
Monsanto $61.29 / share $84.53 / share
McDonalds $70.45 / share $55.09 / share
National Fuel Gas $49.86 / share $40.64 / share 
Netflix $110.53 / share $44.31 / share
Pfizer $16.19 / share $15.87 / share
Schlumberger $63.26 / share $54.10 / share
Verizon $29.55 / share $31.27 / share
Walmart $51.62 / share $49.20 / share


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

Michael W. Smith said:


> Have you sold some of your gold? If not, then you haven't made any money. Yes, your gold is WORTH more than you orginally paid for it (right now), but until you actually sell your gold and have cash in hand, you haven't made ANY profit.
> 
> (The same for stocks. You can buy a stock at $15.00 / share and if the following year it's worth $30.00 / share a person could say "I made money in stocks - I doubled my money." But until you actually sell the stock and have cash in hand, the only "profit" made is on paper.
> 
> ...


Yes, I have sold quite a bit of it. I bought quite a bit back when it was $32. I don't have very much left. It is very hard to turn down a profit of over $1000. I have a few stocks also. Some of the ones you mentioned. A few have split a few times since I bought them, none made the profit gold did. A few of the stocks are completely worthless.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> You are purposely avoiding and talking around the fact that Goldline and Beck were deliberately slandered by the federal govt.


It would seem if this were the case -- slander -- Goldline and Beck would be filing a lawsuit to clear their names, not asking listeners to send in photos of Rep. Weiner with a "wiener nose." Wouldn't you think? 

I have not heard Beck or Goldline dispute the charges on a factual basis (i.e., that Goldline's prices _aren't_ substantially higher than competitors', or that the company _doesn't_ engage in bait-and-switch and high-pressure sales tactics). 

Ranting that the government is trying to stop people from buying gold (as Beck is doing) isn't a fact-based defense. Apparently his faithful minions are so lacking in critical thinking skills that they can't recognize this, though. :shrug:


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## Dr. Mom (Jan 13, 2008)

Beck and Goldline don't have to dispute the charges or clear their names. All they have to do is point out what the gov is doing and let the people decide for themselves. Weiner should be trying to clear his own name of financial misconduct during his reelection campaign. 

The fact that the congressman is so desperate for "evidence" that he accused the Better Business Bureau of fraud should be worthwhile to note.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/politics/3622-glenn-beck-vs-congressman-weiner



> Beck asserted, âHereâs a guy whoâs trying to tell an A+ Better Business Bureau-rated company how to do business when he has been nailed twice for financial improprieties.â Here, Beck refers to a $47,000 fine against Weiner because of financial misconduct during his reelection campaign and a $28,000 loan made to one of Weinerâs campaign committees by his own parents.
> 
> In response to this report from the BBB, Weiner told Bill Oâ Reilly on The OâReilly Factor that the BBB may be guilty of fraud, and that Goldline may well have paid for their A+ rating. And yet, Weiner continues to assert that Beck is the âconspiracy theorist.â In truth, if Weiner was concerned that the BBBâs ratings could not be trusted based on the presumption of fraudulent practices, shouldnât his investigation be focused on the Better Business Bureau and not Goldline or Glenn Beck ?



http://commonamericanjournal.com/?p=14534



> Goldline president and CEO Mark Albarian said Weiner is targeting the company because of its relationship with Beck, the popular conservative radio and television talk show host who has drawn rebukes from the White House for his scathing attacks on Obama.




It should be apparent to the most casual observer what the gov is attempting to do. It would seem that those who are truly lacking in critical thinking skills can't recognize this, though. It's funny, though, I don't see Beck's name mentioned anywhere.

http://news.coinupdate.com/rep-anthony-weiner-attacks-goldline-and-glenn-beck-0282/



> The political angle of this attack seems obvious to me. Buying physical gold and silver can be interpreted as a rejection of paper currencies and government regulations. Owning precious metals may signify a degree of mistrust in the government. If you own an ounce of gold or silver, the government cannot inflate it! Therefore, the politicians and bureaucrats with the political power have an incentive to discourage people from buying physical gold and silver. An attack on a major dealer that makes the whole industry look bad can help accomplish such a goal.
> 
> I would not be at all surprised to learn that the attack on Goldline had more to do with political retribution against people who value their freedom and are trying to protect their wealth than any concern by politicians and bureaucrats for the well-being of the citizenry. The attack also helps divert attention from the growing political and financial mess for which governments shoulder a major part of the blame.



http://biggovernment.com/amellon/20...ck-and-goldline-amateur-arrogant-and-asinine/



> Most importantly, consumers are individuals who in free markets remain sovereign, but this sovereignty is violated when politicians get in the way of consumersâ voluntary decisions. When you regulate peopleâs decision-making, you regulate their very being. You violate their freedom to think and to act in ways that they deem beneficial as individuals, which at the aggregate level benefits us all. Meanwhile, while Weiner and friends try to protect us from ourselves, they neglect to recognize our true enemies, failing at their single most important job which is to protect us from others.



http://www.newsmax.com/Ruddy/beck-goldline-weiner-currency/2010/05/25/id/360114



> So this precious metal is now an enemy of the state because it is competing with the dollar. Every time an investor purchases gold, they take money out of circulation. The velocity of money slows.
> 
> The economy suffers. Obamaâs re-election in 2012 will also suffer unless he can get dollars circulating again.
> 
> ...


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> It would seem if this were the case -- slander -- Goldline and Beck would be filing a lawsuit to clear their names, not asking listeners to send in photos of Rep. Weiner with a "wiener nose." Wouldn't you think?
> 
> I have not heard Beck or Goldline dispute the charges on a factual basis (i.e., that Goldline's prices _aren't_ substantially higher than competitors', or that the company _doesn't_ engage in bait-and-switch and high-pressure sales tactics).
> 
> Ranting that the government is trying to stop people from buying gold (as Beck is doing) isn't a fact-based defense. Apparently his faithful minions are so lacking in critical thinking skills that they can't recognize this, though. :shrug:


Apparently you are so lacking in critical thinking skills that you can't see the danger of the government trying to silence political opposition. I assure you, that presents a far greater danger to everyone in the country than anything Goldline might be doing.


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

willow_girl said:


> It would seem if this were the case -- slander -- Goldline and Beck would be filing a lawsuit to clear their names, not asking listeners to send in photos of Rep. Weiner with a "wiener nose." Wouldn't you think?
> 
> I have not heard Beck or Goldline dispute the charges on a factual basis (i.e., that Goldline's prices _aren't_ substantially higher than competitors', or that the company _doesn't_ engage in bait-and-switch and high-pressure sales tactics).
> 
> Ranting that the government is trying to stop people from buying gold (as Beck is doing) isn't a fact-based defense. Apparently his faithful minions are so lacking in critical thinking skills that they can't recognize this, though. :shrug:


Goldline prices are higher than compettitors for the same product. Prices of numunastic coins vary quite a bit according to the coin, size, quality, condition, and age. 
You can also see adds on TV and radio about some hoard of silver or gold coins found in different places. The last few I heard were old gold coins found in some other country in uncirculated condition, and a hoard of old silver morgan dollars found in a basement, in uncirculated condition. I haven't seen these coins but others I have seen are new minted coins which are a copy of the original. They are still gold or silver, still the same coin, but are just copies of the origional.

Any coin or bullion seller will try the bait and switch or upsale, no exceptions.
Just like a car dealer, they do not usually even have the car they advertise, but they just happen to have quite a few with other higher price options.

This is just my opinion and is not necessarily true but I think Beck is taking advantage of the Obama's administration reaction. It is a great sales tool. The majority of his listeners do not care for the present group we have in the white house and will do just about anything to show it. Just like the supporters of the president will do anything to discredit anyone who speaks up against him. Really one group isn't much different than the other. Both are in it for personal reasons and helping others isn't at the top of either list.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> The fact that the congressman is so desperate for "evidence" that he accused the Better Business Bureau of fraud should be worthwhile to note.


I wrote about this years ago, so my recollection is a bit hazy, but I believe the BBB has different standards for member and non-member businesses. Any business that shells out the bucks to join is automatically considered in a more favorable light ... something about demonstrating their commitment to customer satisfaction, etc. What it boils down to is the BBB has to keep its office staffed and the lights on just like everybody else. It does make it a little harder to root out the truth of the matter, though. A business can have quite a few complaints filed, but as long as they're a BBB member and "working to resolve the issue" they'll retain their good rating. Caveat emptor!

More later ... gotta go to work now!


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Whoops, seems I have time for one more:



> Apparently you are so lacking in critical thinking skills that you can't see the danger of the government trying to silence political opposition.


So, if a Democratic mayor goes rogue and holds up a bank, should the Republican sheriff hesitate to arrest him for fear he'll be accused of trying to silence his opposition?

Of course not; good men would want to see the lawbreaker brought to justice regardless of his politics. 

Now, we're not talking violent crime here, so the impetus is much weaker, and (being realistic) we can't expect the R's to go after their fellow R's, or the D's after D's ... but if each side goes after the other, and exposes their opponent's shenanigans, then the public ultimately is served. 

What? You don't think there are conservatives out there trying to dig up the dirt on liberals' sponsors? Don't be naive. And in any case, if a business is operating above-board, it should have nothing to fear, right?


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> Whoops, seems I have time for one more:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're obviously convinced that the One can do no wrong, and that he is no threat to our liberty. Fortunately, the majority of Americans now know otherwise. You go ahead and enjoy the view through your rose colored glasses while the rest of us are busy defending your liberty.



> It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt.âJohn Philpot Curran: Speech upon the Right of Election, 1790. (Speeches. Dublin, 1808.)


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## pancho (Oct 23, 2006)

willow_girl said:


> I wrote about this years ago, so my recollection is a bit hazy, but I believe the BBB has different standards for member and non-member businesses. Any business that shells out the bucks to join is automatically considered in a more favorable light ... something about demonstrating their commitment to customer satisfaction, etc. What it boils down to is the BBB has to keep its office staffed and the lights on just like everybody else. It does make it a little harder to root out the truth of the matter, though. A business can have quite a few complaints filed, but as long as they're a BBB member and "working to resolve the issue" they'll retain their good rating. Caveat emptor!
> 
> More later ... gotta go to work now!


You are right about the BBB. If a business is a member any complaint through the BBB either gets lost or is looked on as a trivial matter.
Money talks. If you know the right person to pay off you can do just about anything you desire.


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## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> You're obviously convinced that the One can do no wrong, and that he is no threat to our liberty.


I'm not a huge fan of Obama, actually. I believe the people gave him a tremendous mandate, which he's mostly squandered on trying to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" with Republicans. Won't work! He also appears clueless where public opinion is concerned. As ole Abe Lincoln noted, in America, public opinion is everything. We had a large clue as to Obama's cluelessness when, on the campaign trail, he made disparaging remarks about the "bitter clingers." I got the sense that he really believes this country is made up of Ivy League-educated intellectuals of the sort he fraternized with at Harvard Law Review. Well, not so. Not by a long shot. Had he been so inclined, he could have taken a huge lesson from Bill Clinton, another president with a hoity-toity education who nevertheless saw the necessity of appealing to the common man. 



> Fortunately, the majority of Americans now know otherwise. You go ahead and enjoy the view through your rose colored glasses while the rest of us are busy defending your liberty.


Condescending much? OK, in the same spirit, here's what happened, as I see it: Weiner & Co. hoped to embarrass Glenn Beck by highlighting his connection with an unscrupulous business. Weiner assumed the public would be outraged by the thought of Bad Shepherd Glenn herding his sheeple straight into the jaws of the Goldline wolf. 

But Weiner, like Obama, misjudged a few things, including 1) the slavish devotion of Beck's followers; 2) their lack of capacity for rational thought; and 3) their suspicion, bordering on paranoia, of anything connected to the government (or, more specifically, the Democratic Party). And thus Weiner's stunt appears to have backfired, as far as showing Beck for the charlatan he is. His minions remain in his thrall. :shrug:


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## Txrider (Jun 25, 2010)

southerngurl said:


> To me, it just makes sense that if gold has come up every year for the last 10 years, and now it's being advertised like crazy all over.. that it's balloon that's going to pop.


Ding Ding, we have a winner...

Buy low, sell high... Which is why they are on TV pushing gold like crazy right now before the price dips when the economy starts recovering better.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Txrider said:


> Ding Ding, we have a winner...
> 
> Buy low, sell high... Which is why they are on TV pushing gold like crazy right now before the price dips when the economy starts recovering better.


We should live so long . China and the rich will corner the market thus driving the price up . Of course most libs thing things are just peachy :teehee:


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## deaconjim (Oct 31, 2005)

willow_girl said:


> But Weiner, like Obama, misjudged a few things, including 1) the slavish devotion of Beck's followers;


It's more like he overestimated his and the Democrat party's credibility.



willow_girl said:


> 2) their lack of capacity for rational thought;


I suspect both you and Weiner underestimated our capacity for rational thought, which is why we are more interested in the evidence Beck presents rather than the mudslinging to which the Democrats have had to resort.



willow_girl said:


> and 3) their suspicion, bordering on paranoia, of anything connected to the government (or, more specifically, the Democratic Party). And thus Weiner's stunt appears to have backfired, as far as showing Beck for the charlatan he is. His minions remain in his thrall. :shrug:


Perhaps it would work better for them to actually try to dispute the facts Beck presents instead of the pitiful attempts at character assasination,; but that would be too hard. We are most certainly suspicious of the Democrat party, and so far those suspicions have proven to be justified.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

One thing for sure there is just so much gold in the world . :cow:

Interesting reading http://dollarcollapse.com/dollarcollapse-faqs/


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## silverbackMP (Dec 4, 2005)

Txrider said:


> Ding Ding, we have a winner...
> 
> Buy low, sell high... Which is why they are on TV pushing gold like crazy right now before the price dips when the economy starts recovering better.


Who owns gold? Do you personally know one person in the flesh that owns gold (other than jewellery, etc)? When your busboy or barber is talking about spot price, that is when it will be in a bubble--not before. It will go parabolic in the last blow off mania. If we hyperinflate, then all bets are off.


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