# Why do Homeschoolers have to pay school taxes?



## Patches (Aug 9, 2006)

My husband asked me the other day why we had to pay school taxes. They are about two-thirds of our personal property taxes each year. We have been homeschooling for 4 years now and purchase the ciriculum ourselves. We have no attachments to the public school system, so why do we have to pay so much tax. The people who rent houses and send their kids to school do not have to even pay the school taxes. What is fair about that? Anyone know if I can legally get out of paying the school tax? Thanks, Marilyn


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I don't even have kids and I have to pay them.

People who rent do pay, as they pay the homeowner who pays the taxes.


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## trixiwick (Jun 9, 2004)

People without kids pay in, as do people who send their kids to private school. Nobody ever said life was fair.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I do wish we could get some credit for our curriculum (like my homeschooling counterparts in WA state do) but as far as paying taxes for school...someone else paid the taxes for you to go to school if you were in the public school system and it is better for our society to have a (somewhat) educated populace.


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## hassette (Jan 31, 2006)

No kids here either and we pay about $3000 per year toward the county school system. I grumble to DH about this a couple of times a year but in reality we don't get to pick and choose where our tax money goes. There are any number of services we pay for that we will never benefit from but that's the way the system works.


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## Mysticdream44 (Dec 29, 2004)

We rent and we pay school taxes.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

The same reason that people who don't go the hospital in an ambulance pay for EMT's and police coverage... to make a better community.

Sorry... you asked.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

You pay school taxes because you are part of a community. You also pay for a library you may not use, ambulance service that is used mostly by an older populace, police you never call. It kinda comes down to paying for schools or paying for more prisons and more welfare. I choose schools.


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## sugarbush (Jul 15, 2007)

If they changed the tax code so that homeschoolers, the elderly, people without children, and those who send their kids to private schools did not have to pay school tax. local government would have to invent another tax to cover the lost revinue, so you would still be paying it, just in a different form  

Taxation is for the greater good; smile and tell yourself that every time you look at that paystub


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

Like Lisa said, you're paying for an educated population. I don't have kids, either, and I pay a lot of school taxes. I'd be very happy to opt out of them since I don't have kids, but that's not an option. Personaly, I'm waiting for school taxes to be based on income, not property value.

Jennifer


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## Use Less (Nov 8, 2007)

Seedspreader has it right. Public services are paid for by all for the benefit of whoever needs them. Your taxes are not about your exact & immediate need. If we are lucky, we never need the fire department, the police, the state troopers, the ambulance core, the Fed. forest-firefighters, Army Corp of Engineers. Anyone can send his/her kids to public school, and no one is charged a per-kid fee, as is common in most parts of the world. The ready availability of a basic education is one thing that makes America as great as it is. No kids here either, but my $1 per student in my local district feels like a great buy to me. Sue


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## sugarbush (Jul 15, 2007)

Jennifer L. said:


> Personaly, I'm waiting for school taxes to be based on income, not property value.
> 
> Jennifer


They already are here. We pay our property tax, and then we have a local county tax that covers county schools and services. The county tax comes out of your paycheck based on income just like other taxes.


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## NWoods_Hippie (Nov 16, 2006)

As a child-free by choice woman in her mid 40's, I will proudly say that when the majority in my area was fighting against upping our property taxes a bit for the local grade school I WAS fighting hard for the tax increase!! 

Children should have the best education posssible, and if my landlord had raised my rent because of the tax increase I would have happily paid the increase, he didn't however because he feels the same way I do!!

Margie


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## DocM (Oct 18, 2006)

Patches said:


> The people who rent houses and send their kids to school do not have to even pay the school taxes. What is fair about that? Anyone know if I can legally get out of paying the school tax? Thanks, Marilyn


Common misconception. I have two rental properties. The rent paid to me covers the property tax on that rental. The renters are paying an amount that indeed covers the local school taxes. 

I homeschooled all four of my kids. I've never begrudged paying for the local schools to operate. It's my choice not to partake of something the government provides. Is it fair? Yes.


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## OkieDavid (Jan 15, 2007)

sugarbush said:


> The county tax comes out of your paycheck based on income just like other taxes.


Which strikes me as ironic considering that same public funded school system prepared me to continue my education (at great expense) and obtain a college degree, which allowed me to land a well paying job so that I would be paying more into the very system that provided my early education.....I consider it a pleasure to do my part in providing for the education of our kids as it is an investment in the future. As to homeschooling, got nothing for or against it but I suppose if one were so inclined to think only of self and ignore community that a little research could be conducted to find locations/states/countries to re-locate to where such taxes wouldn't be imposed.


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## cindyc (Nov 12, 2005)

I don't have a problem with paying taxes for schools. Wish there was more accountablity for its spending. But that does not negate the fact that many people cannot, or should not homeschool, (or simply do not want to) and it is in the best interest of society (and of those kids) that those kids get the opportunity to be educated. Homeschooling happens to be in the best interest of my particular children. That does not mean that I no longer have a responsibility to society at large in the area of education. It is likely that I will not get the benefit of that money for my kids, yet I COULD get it if ever I needed to. That is a great comfort to me since life is unpredictable and I may end up having to use that system at some point. I hope not, because that is not what is best for my particular kids, but it could happen.

My two cents,  
Cindyc.


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## sugarbush (Jul 15, 2007)

NWoods_Hippie said:


> As a child-free by choice woman in her mid 40's, I will proudly say that when the majority in my area was fighting against upping our property taxes a bit for the local grade school I WAS fighting hard for the tax increase!!
> 
> Children should have the best education posssible, and if my landlord had raised my rent because of the tax increase I would have happily paid the increase, he didn't however because he feels the same way I do!!
> 
> Margie


You will appriciate this story and I am sure those members who live in New England with town meeting style politics can relate. 

Several years ago the town we are from in Vermont had a vote to increase taxes for the school system. Budgets are approved at town meeting by the voters of the town and the voters voted against the tax increase. The town councel had to cut the budget so began looking around and decided that they no longer had the money for busing. So they parked the buses and made parents drive their kids to school. When he budget came back up for a vote it passed 

Too bad politics do not work this way more often.


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## annethcz (Sep 25, 2004)

Why do I have to pay for roads that I don't drive on? Why do I have to pay for social programs that I don't use? Why do I have to pay for hospitals that I don't use? Why do I have to pay for streetlights on someone else's street?

Because I live in a community that has decided that it is in the community's best interest to pay for these things, to improve the quality of life for everyone. Like it or not, school does improve the quality of life for many children who attend school. It is in the community's best interest to have an educated population.

I am a homeschooling parent myself, and I don't mind paying school taxes. I know that school is a good thing for many children who attend.


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

We usually vote for the education taxes. There are too many people who can't, for various reasons, homeschool or send their kids to private schools. Even tho we homeschool, we are able to use public school resources. I'm glad they are there, along with the other public service resources. 

I just wish they'd get 4 wheel drive ambulances. At the moment, our driveway cannot be navigated without it. Lot of places around here like ours.


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## Reptyle (Jul 28, 2005)

seedspreader said:


> The same reason that people who don't go the hospital in an ambulance pay for EMT's and police coverage... to make a better community.
> 
> Sorry... you asked.


What he said...

You've probably never stayed in the local jail or prison either, but guess where taxes go?

Have you ever gotten to sleep in the Whitehouse or ride in Air Force One? Hmmm, taxes there too.

A lot of things your taxes go towards that you'll never get to use...Of all of them, I object to school taxes the least.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

Its for the greater good, I don't have kids---may never have them. But I have neighbors, and family and friends and strangers who've I've never met but are all conected somehow. I'll pay the taxes because it's for the greater good.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Yes, I see why we pay school taxes. 

I think it is not being used well, or wisely, and that's the problem, but I do see the reason for it.

Don't know how much I agree with the action regarding the school buses --

I see the side of the homeschoolers and even those who send their kids to private school. WE did for serveral years. I am not, however, in favor of school vouchers. I think the ideal would be to fix the public education system and I think more would leave their kids in public school.

It is in our best interest, all of us, to have a well educated citizenry. I don't, however, think we are getting our money's worth.


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

I love school vouchers... best of both worlds... community supported competitive schooling. 

Competition is good for the educational economy.


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## sugarbush (Jul 15, 2007)

Trixie said:


> Don't know how much I agree with the action regarding the school buses --


They had to cut something, what are the options. They can not buy new computers, or they can cut PE, Art, Music, but that is all at the expense of the children.

They have to pay the teachers and the light bill, so the only things they can cut are things that are none essental like diesel fuel for the buses.

It got the point across.


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## Bonnie L (May 11, 2002)

A district superintendent told me several years ago that bus service is not mandated. If the district can't afford the buses, it's up to the parents to get their children to school.


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## Terri (May 10, 2002)

I paid taxes for 15 years before I had kids. 

That is so when I am old and grey I have reasonably well-educated people to lean on when I need aid.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

*I love school vouchers... best of both worlds... community supported competitive schooling. * 

In theory and in a perfect world.

Nothing about school vouchers will make public school more competitive. They don't need to be. The schools, of some kind will remain open, will still cost money to operate and the kids remaining will still not be getting a good education.

Then there's the factor that you will be dealing with the government - 

First off, I don't know that everyone is going to get school vouchers. Can you imagine if everyone desired vouchers? 

Suppose a homeschooler gets vouchers or tax credits, or whatever for homeschooling. Everything is going fine - then a couple of years down the road the government decides in order to continue, they must allow the government to sanction what they are teaching - how many hours the kids are in actual instruction, if they have a real classroom, etc., etc.

Suppose a church sponsored private school accepted kids with vouchers and their school burgeoned. They borrowed money to expand, etc. Then the government decides they want to dictate what they teach, etc.

In fact, it was a minister and a private school principal that set me straight when I posed vouchers would be good.

Never let the government get a foot in the door if you can help it and especially they don't need to be involved in church sponsored schools. To assume they are going to put out any goodies like vouchers without strings and hooks is not thinking how this government operates.


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## Shepherd (Jan 23, 2005)

hassette said:


> No kids here either and we pay about $3000 per year toward the county school system. I grumble to DH about this a couple of times a year but in reality we don't get to pick and choose where our tax money goes. There are any number of services we pay for that we will never benefit from but that's the way the system works.


Yep, same here - we pay and we have no children...


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Trixie said:


> *I love school vouchers... best of both worlds... community supported competitive schooling. *
> 
> In theory and in a perfect world.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, lot of "what ifs" there. 

Real easy solution, "if" that happens you stop taking their money... 

But it won't happen, they will outlaw private schools and homeschools before they have the opportunity to do what you suggest. Tax money is always a sticky subject.

Most "private schools" i know, allow the state to haul their kids on "public school busses" because the state has that responsibility if they provide it for other schools.

We take advantage of our states school voucher system by "homeschooling" our kids using one of the "virtual academies". We've been ultimately pleased with the results. Our kids test higher, their credits are readily transferable to a public institution if we choose, and we get to elaborate and teach what we want. It's been the best of both worlds for us really.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

No problem here paying the taxes, but will agree that it should be better spent.

My wife (Special Education Teacher) and mother (ILT) have listened to me rant and rave many times. The quality of students is not up to par and while that is not the Teacher's individual fault, the system needs to own up.

When we were living in Alaska, there was talk about using a student's attendance to influence their PDF (that "free" money you get for living in Alaska) but it was all a bunch of hot air.

If there was only some way to get the parents to take more responsibility. At least with attendance, tie it in with Tax Refunds or something.

As far as the teachers, some think they are mini-dictators and need to realize that outside of the classroom, they are dealing with other adults. I actually had a teacher call and ask why I had my son bring home all his books over the weekend when he didn't have homework and I nicely replied " well, so he can keep those straight A's that he has been getting". Then I actually went and sat in the class a few weeks ago, he is in Seventh grade, and the class was like a bunch of three year olds running around and the teacher had no idea of what he was teaching, so I politely told the teacher that maybe he should carry his lesson plans home over the weekend and study up himself.

Paying the taxes, not a problem. Just wish they had some fiscal common sense.

Joseph


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

Plus, my taxes are going more directly to my kids (just wanted to add that)


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Taxes are what I pay the government to stay out of my business.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Those what if's are based on past government behavior and a realistic view of our government - think about it. 

Yes, the real solution is to stop taking the money and homeschoolers can do that more easily than a private school - but you know money like that tends to have a way of becoming 'necessary' money. I think many would stop, but a church who would go bankrupt if they stopped accepting voucher kids, would bow to the inevitable. That's just a fact.

They tried to outlaw private schools, and homeschooling - or at least make it so tough many would stop. They used the guise of safety, lack of athletic programs, etc. - but the schools continued. They were not taking government money so they had the freedom to continue.

As for homeschoolers - the first family to homeschool in our district was a minister and his wife. The school district itself tried to create all kinds of problems. 

When I removed my daughter from public school and enrolled her in private school, I got a letter (threat) from the school district saying they might not and didn't have to accept her back if I choose to re-enroll her in public school. That didn't frighten me as I knew it to be untrue - but others may not have known.

I don't know about all private schools, but I don't know any around here where private school kids ride public school buses. My daughter's school had their own bus, as do the ones I know - or parents provide their own transportation. Someone told me that in their district it happened, but I haven't seen or heard of it.

I'm glad it works for you - but I am adamantly opposed to the federal government becoming involved in private schools - especially church schools. Churches should stay as far away from politics as they can. The church will loose everytime.

Think about it - if this government was really, truly interested in ALL children getting a good education - wouldn't they clean up the public schools? There's plenty of money there. It isn't the lack of money that is the problem. WE've been throwing money at education for decades and it still keeps going downhill.

We once had a good education system in this country - we could again.

No, it's has little to do with education and a lot to do with control.


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## ArkansasLady (Jan 1, 2003)

why do I pay school taxes as a homeschooler, ummm because it is the law, do I like it, not necessarily, but it is the law, is it fair, probably not, but no one ever said life is fair. I figure if they dont get it this way they would figure out another way to get it. So I grin and pay..ROFL..

~C~


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## lenii (Dec 31, 2005)

same reason seniors have that are on Social Security have to pay them.


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## Pizza Guy (Jun 5, 2006)

Trixie said:


> Think about it - if this government was really, truly interested in ALL children getting a good education - wouldn't they clean up the public schools? There's plenty of money there. It isn't the lack of money that is the problem. WE've been throwing money at education for decades and it still keeps going downhill.
> 
> We once had a good education system in this country - we could again.
> 
> No, it's has little to do with education and a lot to do with control.



So true. Children are indoctrinated into the liberal mindset via the public school system, at least here in California and it really disgusts me. I recently read an article about school systems in Europe and they spend much less per student than we do here in the USA and yet their test scores are much better. Why is that? The simple answer is attitude. Most Europeans "treasure" education and recognize the benefits of a good education. Too many in this country don't. 

The government should get out of education completely. The free market would do a much better job at a much lower cost.


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## Scrounger (Jan 6, 2007)

Yup! About 70% of our taxes go to the worthless public school system. Now the state is talking about giving every teacher/admin/etc a $2500 bonus, just because. MORE of our tax money sucked out of us.


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## saramark (Nov 2, 2004)

I find it a bit ludicrous that we would believe that school buses taking kids to school was the thing that had to be cut in the previous post. New computers, while nice, are completely unnecessary. All athletic programs cost money. Basketball here in Maine is one of the worst. Because of the way they set up scholastic sports, kids here travel up to 3 hours each way by bus on a regular occasion. This costs wear and tear on the bus, a driver by the hour(usually overtime) heating the gym with the entry door flapping open all the time, referees, coaches, uniforms, more wear on the gym floor, a need for more custodial care for the facilities used, and a policeman on the overtime clock for security. I don't know what all that comes to, but it certainly is less necessary than children getting to and from school. It was a dirty tactic to hit where it hurt so the town could up the budget as much as they saw fit and make the parents feel guilty about not wanting to pay more.
If a hospital was having money problems, they would not cut the ambulance or emergency care first. They would keep the critical functions first and cut off some of the fat in the ledger. Here, the special needs kids go swimming and bowling weekly at taxpayers expense. How could you justify the "need" for this stuff? 
We home educate our kids. We are also foster parents and are not allowed to keep those kids home to teach them. The foster care system is another place that uses their income sources far to carelessly. 
I would be completely fine with pay per use police, fire, school, and medical care. I don't use them often, and in the off chance I needed one, I would be happy to pay. An "educated public" is far too lame an excuse for what is being spit out of the public school system nowadays. I speak from experience. My FIL is a teacher,as is my wife's aunt, along with a list of others I speak with regularly. The system is broken, it does not work, so we just throw more money at it hoping to get different results. 

mark


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Nowhere in the Constitution does it provide freedom from paying taxes for services you do not consume.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

*saramark* Those are the feelings I had about the school bus situation, also.

Money is not the answer - and giving tax cuts (costing more money) to allow some to leave is also not the answer.

Fix the thing. Surely some could research what we were doing years ago and maybe even talk with other countries - I mean if they don't know themselves.

An educated public is a good thing - and I don't have a problem with paying for it - but that's not what we are getting now.


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

Maura said:


> You pay school taxes because you are part of a community. You also pay for a library you may not use, ambulance service that is used mostly by an older populace, police you never call. It kinda comes down to paying for schools or paying for more prisons and more welfare. I choose schools.


But wait. There is a very big difference here. I always have the option to go to the library if I wish to. I can always call an ambulance if I need one. On the other hand, I am not ALLOWED to use any school facility for my own purposes. There are school exercise rooms that have THOUSANDS of dollars worth of equipment that are used less than one or two hours a day, but that equipment is NOT available to the community. Likewise the computer lab. NOT available for the community that has paid for it. I once asked if I could come and USE THE TRACK to walk because I cannot walk along the highways where I live because they do not have a shoulder. The answer from the school was that they do NOT ALLOW unauthorized adults on school property for security reasons.

So I pay hundreds of dollars for this equipment to "Make the community better" and I am not ALLOWED to use any of it. 

It's incredibly stupid if you ask me and it is also taxation without representation which I believe a war was fought over once about 200 years ago.

donsgal


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## seedspreader (Oct 18, 2004)

I didn't think we were discussing the STATE of public schools, but why we pay the taxes.

The schools need overhauled... there is no argument. But the answer to the original post doesn't change.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

donsgal said:


> But wait. There is a very big difference here. I always have the option to go to the library if I wish to. I can always call an ambulance if I need one. On the other hand, I am not ALLOWED to use any school facility for my own purposes. There are school exercise rooms that have THOUSANDS of dollars worth of equipment that are used less than one or two hours a day, but that equipment is NOT available to the community. Likewise the computer lab. NOT available for the community that has paid for it. I once asked if I could come and USE THE TRACK to walk because I cannot walk along the highways where I live because they do not have a shoulder. The answer from the school was that they do NOT ALLOW unauthorized adults on school property for security reasons.
> 
> So I pay hundreds of dollars for this equipment to "Make the community better" and I am not ALLOWED to use any of it.
> 
> ...


As a homeschooler, I do not want in any way to set foot inside of a public school. I don't want to use their gym, their cafeteria, their computer labs, or even their bathroom.

As Claire Wolfe once stated, "You can't kill the beast if you're sucking from its teat." 

However, your argument is fundamentally invalid. You are not allowed to go to the public library and raise chickens. You are not allowed to call an ambulance to deliver you a pizza. You can use these public functions only for those functions which have been deemed appropriate. And the only function that has been deemed appropriate to a public school is indoctrination.


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## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Our school district has diversified quite a bit in the last 10 years. Parents and students can homeschool using the state's online academy. There is the Homeschool Plus program where students go in once or twice a week for help with their weaker subjects. Students can attend classes on campus part time for academic or enrichment classes, like band or auto shop. Extracurricular activities are also open to homeschool students.

My homeschooled senior has a student body card. She plays sports and attends many functions at the school with her friends. It isn't a problem.


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## Rascal (Oct 18, 2007)

Trixie:
An educated public is a good thing - and I don't have a problem with paying for it - but that's not what we are getting now.

Ernie:
And the only function that has been deemed appropriate to a public school is indoctrination.

That is exactly the way I feel.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Yes, the thread has drifted, but I followed it - and even helped a little I guess.

But to answer the question, I guess, we all pay for things we may never use. 

We have never taken welfare, food stamps, gotten a government sponsored home loan, college loan, small business loan, etc., etc., but we pay for them nonetheless.

Just an old granny, but I don't necessarily want to kill the beast of public education - just tame it, and make it work for us rather than our simply continuing to feed something that preys on us.


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

When I was a child, I went to a public school. That's good enough reason for me to pay taxes to support them.


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## veme (Dec 2, 2005)

No kids here & we pay through the nose :grump:


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## nebula5 (Feb 4, 2003)

Donsgal wrote:"Likewise the computer lab. NOT available for the community that has paid for it. I once asked if I could come and USE THE TRACK to walk because I cannot walk along the highways where I live because they do not have a shoulder. The answer from the school was that they do NOT ALLOW unauthorized adults on school property for security reasons."

This must vary by district policy. Both the school my kids go to and the school I work at allow community members to use the track and tennis courts after the school day is done, and when not being used by teams. If you were wanting to use it during the school day, I understand why they said no.
Groups can use part of the school for community events; usually they have to pay a fee to pay for the custodian's time. 
Our rural school district has offered Saturday computer classes for community members. There is no open computer use, but why would there be? Someone would have to supervise whoever's using it, after hours. Surely you can understand why you could not use it during the school day. Security in schools is much tighter than it used to be.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

donsgal said:


> But wait. There is a very big difference here. I always have the option to go to the library if I wish to. I can always call an ambulance if I need one. On the other hand, I am not ALLOWED to use any school facility for my own purposes. There are school exercise rooms that have THOUSANDS of dollars worth of equipment that are used less than one or two hours a day, but that equipment is NOT available to the community. Likewise the computer lab. NOT available for the community that has paid for it. I once asked if I could come and USE THE TRACK to walk because I cannot walk along the highways where I live because they do not have a shoulder. The answer from the school was that they do NOT ALLOW unauthorized adults on school property for security reasons.
> 
> So I pay hundreds of dollars for this equipment to "Make the community better" and I am not ALLOWED to use any of it.
> 
> ...


On the other hand, we can't use the offices of congressmen, President, or have use of the Treasury Building. In fact, you have to pay an admission to even tour many governmental facilities in Washington, DC. Sometimes it isn't practical for us to have use of all we pay taxes for. It's just life.

Schools wouldn't even be safe and upkeep would be out of this world if every Tom, Dick & Harry in the community had use of them.

We pay taxes because it's the right thing to do. If only those who had children enrolled in schools paid for the schools, that would be a "private" school. Not many could afford to go to school. That would really help America!  

No tax without representation???? You have all sorts of elected officials who represent you regarding taxation. If you disagree about how it's done, all you have to do is write or call them.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

paying school taxes is the right thing to do....and as a point of curiosity does anyone have at hand any stats indicating that homeschoolers go on to become Ph.D's, doctors, CEO's, ect at a higher rate than public schooled kids?


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## morrowsmowers (Jun 14, 2004)

The thing that gets me about school taxes is that they are so much higher than all the other taxes. The taxes I pay to run my town and county all totaled are less than just the school tax. The schools are only operating part of each day and only part of the year and yet they cost more than police, fire, ambulance, library, etc., etc., etc., all totaled. And the other things operate all day, every day. 

Ken in Glassboro, NJ


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

*morrowsmowers* I always thought that was true and it is true at our place in East TExas - but here the county taxes are almost the same as the school taxes.

I'm not sure why.


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## RockyGlen (Jan 19, 2007)

BobK said:


> paying school taxes is the right thing to do....and as a point of curiosity does anyone have at hand any stats indicating that homeschoolers go on to become Ph.D's, doctors, CEO's, ect at a higher rate than public schooled kids?


http://www.hslda.org/research/ray2003/HomeschoolingGrowsUp.pdf

Try that - it's the result of a survey of 7000+ adults who were homeschooled. Pretty interesting reading. It includes lots of things, such as happiness levels, civic involvement, finances, and compares all the homeschooling figures to the national averages.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

That is very interesting. 

I had heard some good things -


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## RockyGlen (Jan 19, 2007)

Ernie said:


> As Claire Wolfe once stated, "You can't kill the beast if you're sucking from its teat."



Gee, maybe they should print that on all those income tax rebate checks they are going to give to people who don't pay income taxes!

Sorry for the drift, but I like that quote!


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## Scrounger (Jan 6, 2007)

veme said:


> No kids here & we pay through the nose :grump:


Here, too.
I went to a public school, too. My parents paid for it. I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's kid to graduate with a 7th grade education. There are a LOT of wasteful things that the schools could do away with. Ours sends out a multi-page news letter every month to every household in the district. They can keep mine. Taxes also pay for "Green Fees", clubs, and other costs to get the 6 person golf team around the state to play, $48,000 for new band uniforms, etc, etc.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

My dad pays them and he's almost 100 years old. When we were kids we bought all our school supplies, including books and workbooks. The school didn't supply anything. We paid for lunches or carried lunch from home. 

It's not fair that everyone now has to support the schools by paying "school tax". I think we should go back to the old ways. The local people know what's best for their children and should have control of the local schools.


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## Becca65 (Jul 13, 2005)

Scrounger said:


> Here, too.
> I went to a public school, too. My parents paid for it. I shouldn't have to pay for someone else's kid to graduate with a 7th grade education. There are a LOT of wasteful things that the schools could do away with. Ours sends out a multi-page news letter every month to every household in the district. They can keep mine. Taxes also pay for "Green Fees", clubs, and other costs to get the 6 person golf team around the state to play, $48,000 for new band uniforms, etc, etc.



Huh?? Sorry but i don't agree.. some kids might graduate with only a 7th grade education, But i know quite a few that haven't! don't know where you get those statistics from.. 
And as for Band uniforms go at the High School my daughter goes too they do tag days where the kids stand outside playing their instruments in front of a store or resturaunt, and that money is what pays for band uniforms. 
My Dh is on the band booster committee so i do know that for sure.
Thats to bad you dont take the time to read the newsletter you might actually find out whats going on in the schools.


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

Karen said:


> On the other hand, we can't use the offices of congressmen, President, or have use of the Treasury Building. In fact, you have to pay an admission to even tour many governmental facilities in Washington, DC. Sometimes it isn't practical for us to have use of all we pay taxes for. It's just life.
> 
> No tax without representation???? You have all sorts of elected officials who represent you regarding taxation. If you disagree about how it's done, all you have to do is write or call them.


My elected officials do a job which benefits me directly. Not only that, but I have the opportunity to VOTE to say how my tax dollars are used by these elected officials and if I do not like what they are doing I have the privilege of voting them out of office.

With regard to the school system, I have no say. Oh yes, I know what you're going to say...you can vote for the school board, you can even BE ON the school board if you so desire as a concerned citizen. But you are totally missing the point.

I can not join the school board and vote that school taxes be used to build a community storm shelter. I cannot vote that school taxes be used to fix pot holes in the street. I cannot vote that the school taxes be used to buy books or supplies for the local (not school) library. Sure I can join the school board, but what difference does that make? They are still going to use my tax dollars for things that do not benefit ME in any way.

Oh sure, you can say....by giving your community a good education you and everyone benefits. That is not necessarily the case either. Just because someone who went to high school becomes an EMT, there is no guarantee that I will ever use their services. Can someone guarantee me that the children who I am paying for will stay in the community and become doctors, lawyers, etc. to benefit the people who have paid hundreds or thousands of dollars? Of course not. So what are we investing that money for? SO that they can move to Toledo and provide THOSE people with medical or legal care? 

Oh sure you will say...."Somebody paid for your education". But that is no argument because if public education (as sorry as it was/is) was not available then my parents would have paid for it instead. We did not rely on other people's money to pay for my education just like we did not rely on other people's money for our food or housing. Funny how people who are against welfare and food stamps and Americans using the "government's" money to live off of instead of working and making their own way are perfectly happy paying for their children's education instead of requiring them to pay for their own. Which is what would be FAIR.

donsgal


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## Quint (Nov 12, 2004)

Simple. To provide state indoctrination of children and to provide incompetent parasites a means of gainful employment.


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## cem (May 5, 2006)

I home school and don't totally hate paying school tax (maybe a little). The public school teachers in AZ can claim school supplies that they had to buy, and are reimbursed when filing taxes. The regulations clearly states that if you are a teacher homeschooling you are not eligible. 
Now is this fair?


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## Scrounger (Jan 6, 2007)

Becca65 said:


> Huh?? Sorry but i don't agree.. some kids might graduate with only a 7th grade education, But i know quite a few that haven't! don't know where you get those statistics from..
> And as for Band uniforms go at the High School my daughter goes too they do tag days where the kids stand outside playing their instruments in front of a store or resturaunt, and that money is what pays for band uniforms.
> My Dh is on the band booster committee so i do know that for sure.
> Thats to bad you dont take the time to read the newsletter you might actually find out whats going on in the schools.



Why would I CARE what is going on in the school? The only two times I have set foot in the building in over 30 years is for a couple of graduations (no, didn't go there). Yeah - the band raises money for stuff - the $48,000 is ABOVE that.


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## MarleneS (Aug 21, 2003)

Paying towards public school educations helps to improve the world we all share. The better educated the general public the more enriched the community. The more opportuntities children have to gain an education the better all our futures will be.

Choose not to educate the children who's parents income can not even pay for basic necessities and you will help to create a world where a far larger and greater part of it is made of future parents equal to the world in which they were raised.

Frankly, I think anyone against taxes going towards education are the ones most needing of an education themselves.

Marlene


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## Scrounger (Jan 6, 2007)

Not saying I'm against education, but I AM agaist it's present form. They could operate just as well - better in some cases - without sucking so much tax money out of the district.


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

seedspreader said:


> I love school vouchers... best of both worlds... community supported competitive schooling.
> 
> Competition is good for the educational economy.


I totally, 110% agree!


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

RockyGlen said:


> http://www.hslda.org/research/ray2003/HomeschoolingGrowsUp.pdf
> 
> Try that - it's the result of a survey of 7000+ adults who were homeschooled. Pretty interesting reading. It includes lots of things, such as happiness levels, civic involvement, finances, and compares all the homeschooling figures to the national averages.


well that was a pretty carpy study!

half of the respondents in the homeschooled category are still in school and we have no idea how that compares to the 'control' group since there is no breakdown of who was polled or how it was done..

no mention of pool size of the 'control' group

ect

ect


no statistical significances reported for any category so I assume that there were none.....so what I gleaned from the study that for all the bashing the public schools are getting homeschooling can do no better......


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## RockyGlen (Jan 19, 2007)

BobK said:


> well that was a pretty carpy study!
> 
> half of the respondents in the homeschooled category are still in school and we have no idea how that compares to the 'control' group since there is no breakdown of who was polled or how it was done..
> 
> ...


That is just a synopsis of the actual study - which costs $10 to buy and is several hundred pages long. It does say that most of the info. for the general population comes from Census bureau, Dept of Ed., etc. If you would like to shell out the money for the whole thing and let us know what it says, I'd appreciate it.

And as far as homeschools doing no better, there are alot of articles out there about how colleges are actively recruiting home school students because they are better prepared, more well-adjusted to independent living, and need fewer remedial classes. There are also alot of articles and information comparing the SAT and ACT scores of homeschooled students with those of public and private schooled students.

If you want more info. about actual degrees and jobs, you either need to accept what is available, or wait until more have graduated college. Homeschooling really only became popular in the eighties.


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## BobK (Oct 28, 2004)

> That is just a synopsis of the actual study - which costs $10 to buy and is several hundred pages long. It does say that most of the info. for the general population comes from Census bureau, Dept of Ed., etc. If you would like to shell out the money for the whole thing and let us know what it says, I'd appreciate it.


I would think that if the data were significant it would be mentioned in a synopsis.......the report makes no mention if the data are aged matched or the sample size... perhaps that would be in the complete report....or not......



> And as far as homeschools doing no better, there are alot of articles out there about how colleges are actively recruiting home school students because they are better prepared, more well-adjusted to independent living, and need fewer remedial classes. There are also alot of articles and information comparing the SAT and ACT scores of homeschooled students with those of public and private schooled students.



How many public schooled kids are actively recruited....quite a few I imagine......and my wife and I spent years undoing the damage of homeschooling on our niece and nephew so convincing me it is all roses and accolades for homeschooling is going to be a very tough sell.....but if you have the citations for the study I would certainly take a look at them.....




> If you want more info. about actual degrees and jobs, you either need to accept what is available, or wait until more have graduated college. Homeschooling really only became popular in the eighties.


I'm not sure what is available ....that is why I asked! Seems like a sufficient number of children should have reached adulthood and started their various careers......which is a criticism of the study that was posted......no breakdown in the demographics of the homeschooled kids....for example how did the older adults fare.....the ones not still in school...


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Yes, I think public education was/could/should be a very good investment in this country. That is simply no longer the case. WE are not getting our monies worth - not by a long shot and we are graduating a lot of children who are not capable of making a living. 

That doesn't mean that giving school vouchers is the answer - I don't think. That would allow some children to go to private school or homeschool at adding expense to the taxpayer. People, we are smart enough to know the schools are not going to become empty and our taxes are not going to decrease because some of the kids opt out. YOu and I know they aren't going to allow all of them to opt out.

I truly don't know how the voucher system is supposed to work - as in how much money. Who gets it? Do the schools have to qualify in some way? How many could receive it? 

Competition never, ever, made the government work better - and it never will.

We can talk theory all day - but we know there is many a slip between the cup and the lip and theory always sounds good - but when you let the government put something in practice, it is seldom good. Even if it begins well, it usually is tinkered with and ruined later on down the line. 

As for school uniforms, states are different and schools districts are different, but most I know pay for school uniforms, build huge football stadiums, state of the art workout rooms for athletics, greens fees for golf teams, bigger salaries for coaches than math teachers, etc. There's lots of room for trimming down the budget.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Is it really true that we are graduating large numbers of people who can't make a living? I know around here most everyone has a job. The very few I know who don't are usually on disability due to serious injury-we have a lot of coal mining jobs etc... where getting hurt is a sad reality. But most people do work. Most of the people I know who are getting some kind of assistance do so on a very temporary basis. I think Ohio has a limit of three years, which gives people a chance to have some schooling. 

My kids go to public school and they are all very smart, hard-working and have sound moral values. I think the schools do a great job and where they struggle it is usally because the parents have failed-not the school.


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## SteveD(TX) (May 14, 2002)

Think about it:

-if you don't use the library, you shouldn't have to pay for that part of your taxes used to support it. The same with the fire dept. (never had a fire and don't plan on it), police protection (you're fully armed and have never committed a crime), community college (don't need that either), etc. etc. etc. School taxes are a fact of life. If the only people who paid for public schools were the families with kids enrolled there, they wouldn't be PUBLIC schools, would they?


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## RockyGlen (Jan 19, 2007)

I have a friend from Europe who was very confused when she moved here. Apparently, over there schools paid for by the government are called government schools and private schools paid for by the parents are called public schools. 

If you think about it, our schools are government schools as the public has less to say about how it is run than the government does.


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## Jim S. (Apr 22, 2004)

I don't have kids, either, but we pay them because we believe it is fundamental to having any kind of modern society that we support its basic commitment to educate its children to perpetuate its own future. Home-schoolers opt out of that system, and that's fine, but in our view it does not absolve them of that basic commitment to society as a whole.

I attended private schools through high school, and my parents paid BOTH school taxes and private tuitions. They understood that basic commitment to society, and that they had chosen to put me in private schools, and that choice did not absolve them of the commitment to society. They never even considered not paying those school taxes, in those days. It was different times back then.

If we do not wish to honor these basic commitments to the greater good and if it is consequently every person for themselves, I have got mine and you have got yours, then our society will disintegrate.

In cities, many people use public trains and subways for transportation. So therefore, they should not have to pay taxes to be used for highways, right? If someone disagrees with the Iraq war, they should not have to pay taxes to support it, right? And so on. 

Take that philosophy all the way to its logical end, and you have no society at all, and none of the benefits inherent to having a greater collective than just each single human being. Like it or not, we are social animals for a reason, and the group is always stronger and more able to fend for and take care of its members than is an individual on his or her own.

I know all those views are not popular with a lot of folks here -- maybe the majority -- but they are mine.


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## Little_Flower (Feb 18, 2006)

I detest paying school taxes. They are so expensive in my area. I attended a private school for most of my education, so my parents paid for most of my education. I attended one of the "best" public schools in the state for a few years, and there was very little educating going on there. I think the taxpayers were getting ripped off, because I learned absolutely nothing in my years at a public school. Now I have no children, yet we have to pay in for school tax. I don't mind paying taxes for other services because it is put to good use, but paying for school tax is a waste. I averaged that I am paying $50 a week towards school tax. That's an awful lot for someone with no kids to pay. The kids in my neighborhood are rude, misbehaved, narcissistic, and not at all intelligent. The teenagers are even worse. Yet people believe that if we just keep voting yes on school referendums, the kids will somehow get smart. Well, I've been waiting for quite some time, and I have yet to see one shred of intelligence in these kids. I work at a department store, and the teenagers we get in are lazy and expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter--they never learned that you have to work in order to get something. They can't figure out basic mathematical equations, and they can't spell either. Their penmanship is horrible. They are bad with the customers. The teenagers that I deal with on a daily basis, whether it be co-workers or customers, don't know how to behave in social situations and can't carry on conversations--whenever I speak with them, they just grunt and look away. Now, for all the money we are pouring into the system, shouldn't we be seeing a return on our investment?? Shouldn't we be seeing kids who are intelligent and who have better social skills than what I have mentioned above?? BTW, my school district is one of the best in the state. I shudder to think how the kids are in the bad school districts. Hopefully, the system will be modified so the people who are actually using the school system will have to pay instead of the childless, elderly, homeschoolers, etc. I think the more kids you have in the school system, the more you should pay. It's that simple.


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## Becca65 (Jul 13, 2005)

Little Flower I hope your not lumping all teenagers as being the way you just described that go to PS.. 
My DD16 is nothing like you just described and it upsets me when people think all PS kids learn nothing and have no morals and whatever else, because it's just not true. Sure there are some bad PS kids, but i'm sure you could call out some Homeschooled kids that are the same or even some worse. 
I can understand too it's gotta be frustrating when you don't have kids and your paying for a school tax, but thats how it is and probably always will be.


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## Little_Flower (Feb 18, 2006)

Another thing to think about (aside from the quality of education) is the type of environment your children are exposed to each and every day. When I was in school--and keep in mind this was one of the "best" schools in the state--there was a lot of drug use and sex going on right on the school grounds. One journalist called American high schools the modern day brothels, and that is no joke. Many of the teachers in schools are in their early to mid-twenties--fresh out of college and still immature themselves. There were many instances of these young teachers flirting with the teenage girls--and going even further than that. From what little education I did receive in public school, it was sprinkled with very liberal ideas that conflicted with the morals my parents were trying to instill in me. For example, if you think that abortion and gay sex is morally wrong, your child will be told otherwise in health class. And your money is paying for all of this. Do you all think that the public school your child attends is any different?? Well my parents thought the public school we were attending was OK too. But it wasn't until years later that I told my parents what really went on in the schools, what their money went towards. You see, a lot of kids don't confide in their parents about the crap that goes on at school. I once read that 6% of public school teachers are having a sexual relationship with their students. Think about it.


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## nana-san (Sep 22, 2006)

I always believed education was a parent's responsibility too, and not just the school and teacher. Half the time parents are not involved in their children schooling, not checking homework, not attending parent-teacher conferences, no clue as to what goes on but are first to complain.

What the poster describes in the above post sounds more like lack of good home raising. Whether a child is home schooled or attending public school values and education begin at home with the parents first.

If they are rude and obnoxious, believe me they were well on their way before joining a school environment.

If parents grumble and complain about the schooling isn't it only natural that the children will pick up on the attitude and believe the same negativity?

We pay school taxes and have no kids attending the local school system.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

To say they can't get a job is probably too broad - but they are simply not getting as good an education as they should. 

We are behind the rest of the world - I think that was by design.


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## Becca65 (Jul 13, 2005)

Hmm depends on the school system..My DD16 and DD6 are doing really well in the PS. but it all starts at home..If you don't teach your child morals then you more then likely get a child thats out of control and doing drugs and having sex.
My DD tells me what goes on at school, and which girls are sleeping around or pregnant. not many secrets kept from us.
As for the teachers being in their 20's.. Ha not at this HS and Elementary school these are seasoned teachers that have been around for awhile. My DD16's english teacher for instance is in her late 50's.. History teacher is in his early 40's.. Oh her Spanish teacher is proably late 60's.. Are you saying most of the teachers are in their 20's in your area? Because it sure isn't like that here. 
My DD16 will graduate next year with a 4.0 and my youngest is following right behind. I really like our school system I'm sure there are some out there not as good, but not fair to say there all like that.


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

> My kids go to public school and they are all very smart, hard-working and have sound moral values. I think the schools do a great job and where they struggle it is usally because the parents have failed-not the school.



I agree! I am very happy with the public schools here. Most of my kids are testing way above their grade levels. They are polite & respectful to their teachers & classmates. I am told this all the time. The foundation of how a kid will behave is set way before they enter school. If they are troublemakers & not learning in school, a large part of that can be blamed on the parents. You have to be involved no matter how your child is educated. If you have a kid that's not learning in PS, then find out why. Go to the board meetings, PTO meetings, meet with the teachers, whatever. Make sure your kid knows you are involved too.


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## Quint (Nov 12, 2004)

SteveD(TX) said:


> The same with the fire dept. (never had a fire and don't plan on it),


Not here. You have to pay to have fire protection. I pay every year for it.

You're not forced at the point of a gun to pay for it but if you're not a member they won't come put out your fire. That or you can arrange for them to come out and put out your burning home but they'll charge you a couple or grand to do it.

It's a completely voluntary system that works great.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

BobK said:


> ...and my wife and I spent years undoing the damage of homeschooling on our niece and nephew so convincing me it is all roses and accolades for homeschooling is going to be a very tough sell...


You had custody of said children? If that's the case, then I would suggest that there were reasons why said children needed to have "damage undone" -- i.e., parenting and or an emotional trauma.

I'm sick of homeschooling being blamed for such situations. 

Homeschooling, when done by parents who give a darn about their kids, is successful. It's not for everyone -- just like the public system is not for everyone. My children are home educated. They have been for nearly eight years. Both of them score in the 105th percentile on national tests. 

Homeschooling works if the parents involved understand that it takes work, and commitment, and good parenting practices. Children who have issues already, emotional or otherwise, are probably going to show signs of those issues. It's unfortunate that some people are incapable of admitting the true reason, and immediately conclude that homeschooling is to blame, rather than place "blame" where it's due -- with parents who were unable or unwilling to make the commitment it requires to succeed.

Why should we pay school taxes? Because we ALL benefit from the education of our young people. I have no problem with paying school taxes. An uneducated public does not appeal -- people who are not educated are easier to lead, because they don't ask questions. Our countries have both decided that that is unacceptable. Our children have the right to an education -- and that is a good thing. 

I would prefer a voucher program for our education system -- I think it would encourage excellence and support the programs that were best for families, rather than what is best for school boards. However, what we have now is better than nothing. Really, it is. YOU might be willing to keep your tax dollars and put that money toward your own child's education, but there are many out there who would not make the effort or see the value in it, and it is the children who would suffer for it. In turn, as those children grew into adulthood, it would be our society that suffered. Not acceptable, IMHO.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

I think though, that if children who do have problems at home are kept at home and homeschooled, they don't have as much of a chance of overcoming their problems. I would hate to think how my brothers, sister, and I would have turned out if we had been homeschooled! Personally I was, and still am, extremely thankful that there are public schools. School was a welcome retreat from a bad home life.


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## Melissa (Apr 15, 2002)

Wanted to say that homeschooling would not have been the exact cause of our issues, but sometimes the public schools do very good work for many children. As Tracy has mentioned it is a parenting issue and there are parents who for whatever reason, just can't do the job. Now I know some people here will think, "So what? Let the kids fend for themselves!" I just can't do that because I was one of those who would have had to fend for myself, and that's hard to do when you are six or seven...


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

There are some kids doing well in school - and I don't want to offend anyone as you know your situation, but I am concerned about the tests. I don't know what any other state is doing, but I have had teachers voice serious misgivings about them. 

We are falling behind the world and we are loosing kids in the public school system and we are going to have to deal with those kids that are lost, ignored, or not educated. That's just a fact.

Vouchers seem like such a good idea. In a perfect world, adminstered by good and wise government officials - we have none of those things.
If I were homeschooling, or still sending my kids to private school, I might want some relief in the form of vouchers. To say it will do anything more in a positive way, is not being realistic about the way things work. 

Knowing government help always comes with strings attached and a fish hook at the end of that string, I would be very cautious about it. It will be giving them the 'foot in the door' they have wanted for a very long time.

The public school system will not clean itself up just because a part of the kids leave for private schools or homeschooling. I can certainly understand thinking you can't fix everything, so take care of your own, but those public schools are still going to be churning out kids with no education and they will have to be dealt with at some point in time.

They will not lower school taxes because kids are leaving the schools. They will always find something for which they need the money and more.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Melissa said:


> Wanted to say that homeschooling would not have been the exact cause of our issues, but sometimes the public schools do very good work for many children. As Tracy has mentioned it is a parenting issue and there are parents who for whatever reason, just can't do the job. Now I know some people here will think, "So what? Let the kids fend for themselves!" I just can't do that because I was one of those who would have had to fend for myself, and that's hard to do when you are six or seven...


Absolutely, Melissa -- homeschooling is NOT for everyone. However, did the public school system make your parents better parents? I suspect not. I suspect that they were what they were, and you coped -- albeit with the help of some adults at school who recognized your unique challenges, and stepped up.

But if you had been home educated, and not gotten a decent education, it wouldn't have been because of HOMESCHOOLING -- because your parents wouldn't have been educating you, because they were less than optimum parents. A LOT of things have to be in place for home education to fully succeed, just as a LOT of things have to be in place for public schooling to succeed.

It's being honest with yourself as a parent and admitting your weaknesses and HONESTLY THINKING ABOUT the ramifications of each method of education and making an honest decision about your children's future and how best to help them succeed that creates a positive educational environment, no matter whether you choose to home educate or publicly educate.

It's ALL about parenting -- and hard work. Either way you go, your children are not going to get an OPTIMUM education without parent involvement and a great deal of effort on the part of said parents. Period. So it's about the quality of parenting, not the methodology.


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## booklover (Jan 22, 2007)

Little_Flower said:


> I detest paying school taxes. They are so expensive in my area. I attended a private school for most of my education, so my parents paid for most of my education. I attended one of the "best" public schools in the state for a few years, and there was very little educating going on there. I think the taxpayers were getting ripped off, because I learned absolutely nothing in my years at a public school. Now I have no children, yet we have to pay in for school tax. I don't mind paying taxes for other services because it is put to good use, but paying for school tax is a waste. I averaged that I am paying $50 a week towards school tax. That's an awful lot for someone with no kids to pay. The kids in my neighborhood are rude, misbehaved, narcissistic, and not at all intelligent. The teenagers are even worse. Yet people believe that if we just keep voting yes on school referendums, the kids will somehow get smart. Well, I've been waiting for quite some time, and I have yet to see one shred of intelligence in these kids. I work at a department store, and the teenagers we get in are lazy and expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter--they never learned that you have to work in order to get something. They can't figure out basic mathematical equations, and they can't spell either. Their penmanship is horrible. They are bad with the customers. The teenagers that I deal with on a daily basis, whether it be co-workers or customers, don't know how to behave in social situations and can't carry on conversations--whenever I speak with them, they just grunt and look away. Now, for all the money we are pouring into the system, shouldn't we be seeing a return on our investment?? Shouldn't we be seeing kids who are intelligent and who have better social skills than what I have mentioned above?? BTW, my school district is one of the best in the state. I shudder to think how the kids are in the bad school districts. Hopefully, the system will be modified so the people who are actually using the school system will have to pay instead of the childless, elderly, homeschoolers, etc. I think the more kids you have in the school system, the more you should pay. It's that simple.


So, you think that the taxes you pay, ACTUALLY should be for RAISING the children properly. I don't see how anything you mention has anything to do with SCHOOLING at all. It has everything to do with PARENTING.


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## booklover (Jan 22, 2007)

FWIW - We spend over 10K a year to send our dd to a private school and I have ABSOLUTELY NO problem paying taxes for schools. If I didn't pay the taxes for schools, I'd be paying it to build more prisons. Imagine if there were no public schools! If only people with kids in school had to pay... well, most parents couldn't afford to pay for schooling, so kids would end up staying home by themselves all day long while their parents worked. That right there would be the end to a civilized society. I can't believe that people actually resent maintaining simple civilization. I mean, my god, can you imagine what life would be like if all those millions of kids were just on the streets all day instead of in school? It'd be anarchy! Isn't that worth a few bucks? Public school may not be perfect, but it's better than chaos.


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## Selena (Jun 25, 2005)

Patches said:


> My husband asked me the other day why we had to pay school taxes. They are about two-thirds of our personal property taxes each year. We have been homeschooling for 4 years now and purchase the ciriculum ourselves. We have no attachments to the public school system, so why do we have to pay so much tax. The people who rent houses and send their kids to school do not have to even pay the school taxes. What is fair about that? Anyone know if I can legally get out of paying the school tax? Thanks, Marilyn



Too bad so sad, quit whining. YOU made the choice to homeschool. Everyone shares in infrastructure cost. Why should I pay taxes for roads that lead to the church? Or city services that non-tax paying entities use? You're not a martyr and right now you can't say with any surety your kids are turning out "better". Me, I'm tired of supporting those who pay no taxes cuz they have 10 kids and make 30K.


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## saramark (Nov 2, 2004)

Booklover- what about all the societies that don't have a public education sytem, or our own country not that long ago. Many towns got together, parents only, and paid for a teacher that they chose and considered qualified. That is how the Mennonites do it. They all take care of the teacher, who is someone that was usually raised in their community and holds the same standards as they do. Old folks didn't pay for schools, and many times the buildings were maintained with free labor or religious groups donations. Sometimes, the building also doubled as the church. My thought is more one of accountability. If you teach something the parents disagree with in majority, you have no job. If you spend too much money, you run out and your paycheck is the one that goes out the door first. Government and schools run on a completely impossible business model. They just spend whatever they want and if someone complains, they give them a guilt trip and charge more money anyway. That is some kind of system.

BTW, the inmate rates and crime statistics were much much lower when the Bible was a main textbook in schools. Teen pregnancy and STD rates were much lower before public schools and sex education. Nobody remembers those days, huh? 

Mark


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

You know I have (somewhere) a very interesting article written by a teacher who was once named Teacher of the Year in the NYC (I think I'm right) school district.

It is a very interesting bit of history about the public school system and what he says was the reason for it.

It was to 'dumb down' the kids of the regular folk so the elites could maintain their status. 

In some instances when the opened public schools and people refused to send their children, they children were taken from the parents and the parents were otherwise punished.

It is an interesting article and I wish I could find it.

Oh, dear, I'm not saying all public school kids are dumb - please don't jump. I'm just thinking how much better it could be for them - and should be.


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## Tracy Rimmer (May 9, 2002)

Trixie -- You're thinking of John Taylor Gatto -- who was indeed a NY Teacher of the Year... and he has since published a book called "Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling". Many articles have been written with this theme -- the book is eye-opening, to say the least.

It's also one of the first books I suggest to prospective home educators at conferences.


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## Trixie (Aug 25, 2006)

Thanks, Tracy, I didn't remember the name and my memory is kinda faulty. I remembered the gist, though.

It does make one think. 

Actually, we had little choice when our kids were in school. I think if I had tried to homeschool my oldest, I would have been arrested. It was not as prevalent back then as it is now. 

Also the choice for private schools still are not as good or as numerous for small towns.

Our daughter went to a private church school for a few years and it was very good for her. She went back to public school for high school.

We always tried to add to our kids education, though, with books, music, trips, etc.
My kids always thought every vacation had to have a bit of education included.


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## Rascal (Oct 18, 2007)

Heres a link to an article written by John Taylor Gatto:

http://www.rense.com/general42/how.htm


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