# how affective are LGDs?



## Reed77 (Mar 20, 2011)

I maybe moving into a place with a potentially high amount of predators (mountain lions, black bears, coyotes). I am wondering how affective LGD's are? how many head can they protect? Do they ever attack/play too rough with the animals they a protecting?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

They are very effective most of the time.
There is no limit to the number they can protect as long as they can access the same areas

Sometimes they will play too rough with smaller animals, but it's usually not too hard to train them, especially with a shock collar.

Most will outgrow it by the second year


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Another good thing about LGD is their size. The size alone keeps a lot of humans off your property. Most LGDs, especially GP, like humans, but their size is intimidating. That makes them useful just to keep potential problem makers away.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi Reed: Just my opinions....for what they are worth.

I'd first ask you assess your set up (appropriate fencing is paramount to keep LGDs in) and acreage. How much stock and what kind of stock will you have, to assess no. of dogs needed, and what kind. Researching breeds is important, they are all great in their own way, and all have different pros and cons. Your experience with dogs beforehand: any? None? LGD's unlike many 'pet' breeds, are very very independent thinkers who don't push button obey. This is what they do naturally: guard livestock/property/people. Your ability to co-exist with a dog/dogs like this, you need to think about that, and I mean think honestly. Neighbors: potential for lawsuits (ridiculous yes but some people don't like barking dogs). And yes, your tolerance for barking. LGD's bark, some more than others. 

You have to monitor young dogs in stock, you can't just toss them in without supervision, its natural for them to want to play some, and you have to monitor that. If they get rough you need to correct it immediately.

I am a huge advocate of running enough dogs to cover terrain and stock. They always work best in pairs or more. When run in adequate numbers there is no limit to how many head they can guard (I know guys who run bands of sheep and upwards of 30 or more dogs with the stock). You don't say how many stock you have or what kind, again, don't expect one dog to do the job of three, ten, or twenty dogs... And... Are you prepared for upkeep costs, vet bills, regular deworming, shots, buying dog food, etc. Just things to keep in mind.... :~) Do you have the time to raise a pup or would you be better off buying started younger and older dogs? If you don't have a started LGD now who will show your pup the ropes? You should never drop a pup into a protection situation without back up or protection for him against predators who will just eat him up. An LGD can't really be effective till older and that too depends on the breed. My Spanish Mastiffs grow a lot slower than my other breeds, even though huge, they can't really be effective I think until a year or more. Do not place unrealistic expectations on a pup or a dog, either.

LGD's are a big responsibility, nothing in my opinion comes close to them in terms of guarding, but they're not for everyone, either. Keep us posted as to what you decide on and good luck, do your homework first and sounds like you are doing that. Happy Easter!


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

Reed77 said:


> I maybe moving into a place with a potentially high amount of predators (mountain lions, black bears, coyotes). I am wondering how affective LGD's are? how many head can they protect? Do they ever attack/play too rough with the animals they a protecting?


we live deep in the MO. Ozarks... we have all 3 of the predators you mention.. along with stray dogs, fox, ***** and large birds of prey.... we have a spayed/neutered sister/brother pair of Pyrs.. I have a herd of nubians that spend their days, way back in the woods. Birdwise, we have a way-to-many-to-count flock (all the birds are allowed to free range day & night.. I don't close the doors on coops.. everyone can come & go as they please)... NOTHING dies from predators.. the chickens die of old age, the Guineas from getting ran over! .... Bob Barker & his sister Lola, do a wonderful job of keeping everyone safe. Nothing bigger then a robin is ever allowed to land.. The coyotes make a wide circle around our land. The dogs are so good at their jobs.. I honestly NEVER worry at all. We do lock the goats up at night, but even then the dogs have access to every pen/coop/barn... they are also able to get up by our driveway and keep an eye on the house & cars at night.. I can't imagine living out like this without at least them. They both turn 5, next month.. my plan is to add a male puppy to the mix the spring they turn 7... that way as they age & slow down, he can be maturing and helping take on some of the night time *border patrols*... they are hands-down the most important members of our farm family...

susie, mo ozarks


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## PennyJ (Mar 31, 2008)

Simply, for us, 2 years ago we had 90 does. Some of those does had twins, all does kidded. We saved ZERO kids due to coyotes. We now have 2 LGD's and have lost ZERO kids due to predators  Worth their weight in gold!


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## Reed77 (Mar 20, 2011)

wait, you lost 200+ goats to coyotes?


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## Reed77 (Mar 20, 2011)

Thank you all for the information! I will defiantly look into getting a LGD or 2 when I start my boer herd.

So, mixing 2 dogs won't make them have their 'pack' instincts to chase/kill livestock I'm guessing? and they won't fight each other trying to protect the herd?


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Reed77 said:


> Thank you all for the information! I will defiantly look into getting a LGD or 2 when I start my boer herd.
> 
> So, mixing 2 dogs won't make them have their 'pack' instincts to chase/kill livestock I'm guessing? and they won't fight each other trying to protect the herd?


LGD breeds just don't have prey drive. They don't chase chickens/rabbits or balls that are thrown either. If they are LGDs with good protection drive, they are not supposed to have prey drive. They are bred that way. Now if you get something that had a retriever mixed into it's past somewhere, you might get prey drive, but purebred LGDs have it bred out of them.
When they are young puppies they may chew (they do chew and dig), but they outgrow that like all puppies do.


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## PennyJ (Mar 31, 2008)

Reed77 said:


> wait, you lost 200+ goats to coyotes?


We lost 2 does, but yes, all of the kids. It was under 130 kids we lost. And it was horrible. :awh:


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## Reed77 (Mar 20, 2011)

PennyJ said:


> We lost 2 does, but yes, all of the kids. It was under 130 kids we lost. And it was horrible. :awh:


Oh, gosh. that must have been tough


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## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

They are very effective. I have about 100 head of sheep right now, and one lgd. Before the lgd I was losing sheep regularly , and that was with a llama and donkey. With the dog I lose no sheep unless I am stupid enough to accidentaly leave the lgd locked in the back yard where he can't get to the sheep. Yes one night locked up and I have lost a sheep . The coyotes are that quick, and always watching it seems. If the sheep are split into more than one group you will need another dog.


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## yarrow (Apr 27, 2004)

Besides the goat herd, we also have a very small flock of sheep (3 shetlands & 2 romneys) The sheep HATE being locked up in the barns at night... so we leave them free to come & go.. there is ALWAYS at least one of the LGDs, right in the middle of the sheep, all night long... (you have to look hard to pick out which one is the dog LOL)... even with the HUGE packs of coyotes that roam here, we've never had issues (even on moon-less nights) If danger does approach the dogs will begin to bark... the sheep will run to Lola and get behind her.. Bob Barker will take off to confront the danger.. Lola will head back towards the barn lot with the sheep.. as soon as they are safe.. she takes off to back Bob) The dogs work together like a well oiled machine... I will never get over being amazed at how well they *disappear* (you would think it would be easy to see a huge white dog LOL).... 

Lola out with some of the does (she's 









Bob Barker heading out to the woods with the girls









Bob & Evelyn, the donkey









Lola watching for hawks









susie, mo ozarks


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## jhambley (Nov 21, 2004)

We tried GP but could never keep them at home on our 80 acre livestock farm. They did kill predators and bark all night to warn off the coyotes when they were home. Our neighbors are the type that shoot dogs that step on their property. People always say you need good fences to keep GPs at home. My answer to them is show me a place with 80 acres of GP proof fencing. GPs were also so friendly they let our ATVs be stolen from the barn as they watched. 

We are still in hopes of finding a LGD that stays home and is friendly to family but not strangers. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

GP are not human aggressive. You will have to find another breed of LGD if you want them to protect against human predators. There size is a good deterrent in many instances, but they don't seem to be human aggressive. Akbash are, or at least the one we had was. I think the kangals are too, but someone else would have to give their expert opinion on that, I've never had one myself.

As far as keeping them home..... an underground electric fence does wonders. Just keep the batteries in the collars changed every month.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

Our experience has been very positive with our Anatolians. When we first purchased our farm we didn't live on the farm. Our first dog, Emma, was our guard. We added Trooper a year later because they do work better in pairs. (at least in our experience). Trooper is not a wanderer. Emma jumps any and all fences. Together it works for us though. Emma will chase any stray dog, coyote, fox, etc away that she can see. Trooper stays with the goats 100% of the time and kills anything that is unlucky enough to get into the pasture. (skunks, raccoons, etc) I've never loss a goat kid or even a chicken when the two of them are on the job. 
I did keep an eye on them when we first got our chickens and turkeys, because they were new. But I don't worry about them at all anymore. Young pups do need some supervision just like human children. They have to learn. 
Our male is not people friendly. He doesn't "attack", he just keeps his distance. Emma barks until she determines that the person is "ok"
We'd never trade them. They have been the best for us.


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## Goatress (Feb 4, 2011)

mekasmom said:


> GP are not human aggressive. You will have to find another breed of LGD if you want them to protect against human predators. There size is a good deterrent in many instances, but they don't seem to be human aggressive. Akbash are, or at least the one we had was. I think the kangals are too, but someone else would have to give their expert opinion on that, I've never had one myself.
> 
> As far as keeping them home..... an underground electric fence does wonders. Just keep the batteries in the collars changed every month.


80 acres is a lot to put under 'dog proof fencing' so I understand your difficulty....it'd be expensive to really dog proof the whole thing but you might indeed try electric fencing as quoted above.....

As for keeping people away: the sheer size alone of my approx 200 pd Spanish mastiff males (and equally imposing females) keeps everyone thinking twice about jumping a gate. 

My Kangal does not like anyone she does not know; she put my UPS guy up on the porch. She has never attacked (yet) but if she could get through the fence, I know there have been times she would have taken someone on and/or their dog they were walking by. 

Only advice I have about Kangals: they are extremely intense. They are 'Jekyl and Hyde'. One second sweet, the next they can be trying to rip up another dog just for walking too close to their food dish. Even half Kangal pups I have raised and sold show this intense food posession and guard instinct.

Extremely food posessive, almost to a fault.... I had a huge dog fight yesterday here, because my Kangal had buried a bone in the front yard. While I was mowing there, everything was fine, because they know better to pull sh*t when I am there....but the second I walked in the back to put mower up, I hear this commotion: it was 2 Pyrs, 2 Anatolian/Maremmas, 1 Kangal and 1 Spanish Mastiff going at it; I know Elmas my Kangal started it because she was already prickly with the two Anatolian/Maremma males before I walked off.....obsessing over her bone. Everyone came out of it a little injured and cut up but nothing requiring any doctoring. 

I have always said every LGD breed has its pros and cons. If you want a people aggressive dog, be prepared to stay on your toes all the time around it, and be accustomed to fights, or near misses..... And you MUST be alpha dog with it....hands down. It takes huge amount of work. I do it here but even I get challenged: prime example is day the day before, Elmas challenged me in garage; I was in wood pellet pile seems she had peice of lamb fat buried in the stacked bags, she snarled at me, I had to stand her down, big time. When I say they are food possessive trust me I mean it. Again, to a fault, really, particularly if you run a lot of dogs, it can result in fights (witness yesterday here). 

My Pyrs are not. However my male Pyr does not like anyone to touch him and always is standoffish. My SM's are food posessive around other dogs yet my giant Patron will share dish with puppies. I have known Pyrs who would put people on the run. Pyrenean Mastiffs are less people aggressive yet they are intimidating as they'll run to fence and challenge but not bite or act super aggressive. Kind of happy medium. 

Tough call. No one breed can do it all, IMHO. I would never say one breed can.... Again, pros and cons for all. My advice: what is most important guarding you or herd/flock....go with what's most important and hopefully dog will also provide people/strangers/bad guys enough inspiration to NOT cross your fence or go over gate.


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