# Homeless - solutions-only, please ...



## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

... the issue is the homeless, and to this thread, tack on your (real) solutions, as comment free as possible. In this way, perhaps we can better compare and contrast between real solution ideas. Because I posted this in General Chat, I don't know if this thread can remain "chat-free", but inflammatory comments on _any particular solution_ might be better served in a separate thread for that solution?

_My_ solution to homelessness is ... each city surpassing a homeless threshold should consider:

getting state/federal money to build out one or more resource areas that contains, at a minimum, enough land for X amount of individuals _and_ families to car/tent camp (park your car, pitch a tent).
centralized restrooms/showers, for individuals _and_ families, along the same heavy-duty lines as a rest stop area or park facility bathroom; energy-independent as possible with RE.
self-service support services:
regardless of what scenario you find yourself in, here's how to get out of that scenario
anonymous method to request aid in getting out of that scenario, just like getting the "next number to be served"; you get a number to tie into support services, but no name or other PII is exchanged.

 travel, between the resource area and those service areas that make sense for that city (walmart/car-parts-store, greyhound bus stop, service assistance center to match services to the number you pulled, etc)
It's geared to be both help to those who want it in the form that they need most (immediate help, because I just got kicked out of my apartment), and a resource that just isn't available in most any downtown area (quit showering in the visitor center bathroom sink).

In my neck of the woods, the closest real town has a homeless issue as well, and the city council is still stuck in the "how dare they" attack-mode, not "what can we do" solution-mode.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Good ideas.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I would add laundry facilities to that list too.
But what about winter? Any kind of warming facility in your scenario?


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

The best practices on ending homelessness use a "Housing First" philosophy. It focuses on providing permanent, affordable housing with pre-conditions for readiness (i.e. sobriety). So they try to stay away from shelters or campground types of solutions. They also take a recovery orientation, realizing that supports are necessary to help someone deal with addiction once they are housed (battling addiction while being homeless is much more difficult). So it ties into a harm reduction philosophy. 

There are a wide range of supports that may be needed, some housing-related, some pscho-social, some income related. Not all homeless people are homeless for the same reason, so the interventions and supports need to be tailored to the individual or family.

Here's a link if people are interested in more detail:





__





Housing First | The Homeless Hub







www.homelesshub.ca


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

The two most basic needs I considered in my "solution" was 1.) a defined _place_ to park a car or pitch a tent, and 2.) a toilet/shower. After that, everything else was available in some form or fashion. These first two items were impossible to find in any city, and are in my opinion the ones that resulted in the most problems.

Nobody sleeping in their car or pitching a tent complained that they couldn't stay warm ... it wasn't camping. It was a temporary place to land until they figured out the next step.


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## Bront (Jan 26, 2021)

The solution started in nov 2020.....and continues...


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

1. go back to institutionalizing the insane. It is more humane, AND better for society, to have them in an institution.

2. Fight the drug problem. Meth has created many more insane people. Make personalized use quantities a crime with rapid judicial processes and 30 days in the clink every time. Close the border to keep the Mexican meth out.

3. Repeal some of the codes/regulations that make building multi-family homes prohibitively expensive for investors (Biden's proposed 500k limit on 1031 exchanges is just going to worsen this) so we can build affordable housing.

4. Strong social safety net to get people INTO those affordable homes and good jobs.

5. Less free stuff.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

All these specific programs like "housing first" are way above my pay grade ... they seem more long-term than short-term; definitely do them if it fits the local environment and it can be gotten off the ground.

My solution was simply to provide a place to land, find resources, and move on to the next stage, whatever that is given your scenario and the area you are in.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

There is a shelter in my area. You have to be there by 6pm and not drunk or high. In the morning there are people there that need day labor and are willing to use these people. They pay them (I don't know what) and they give half to the shelter. If they remain for 3 months straight (and they have a job) without any hiccups, they get that money back in full and use that to get a place to live. You abide by all the rules while there are you can be kicked out.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

The FIRST step should always be - Identify the problem
The Second Step is - Analyze the Problem

Ignoring the first 2 steps means you are doomed to failure.

In other words, who are the homeless?
How many are there?
Are they permanent or temporary?
How many are there because of drug problems?
How many are there because of alcohol problems?
How many are there because of other mental problems?
How many are freeloaders?
How many children are among the homeless?
and on and on ....

There is no one solution that solves the problem. There are many problems, each probably requiring its own unique solution.

I keep pointing out on political sites everyone wants to complain about problems, but no one seems willing to do the really difficult upfront work that needs to be done. Just how long have we as a country been addressing the homeless problem, only to see it getting progressively worse.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

If it wasn't obvious in my 1st post, all the items are at one location. You can park a car or pitch a tent AND use the toilet/shower, along with signage or what-not for the other items. Nothing too expensive or massive ... if it was successful, it might be no different than a city park or a skateboard park, and cities build these all the time (and get external funding from many sources to do so).


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I also know someone that went to a rehab. It was a 12 month commitment. Once in the only way out was jail but you had to sign the contract to do it. 

They get you a job that pays better than 11 dollars an hour. They give you 35 a week of that to buy necessities. They keep the rest. If you don't go to jail you get 50 percent of that money back in one lump sum to start your new life. 

Oh yeah, you have to go to a 3 month dry out program first. This never cost anything to the person.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

Shelters are good things, in their own way, and perhaps a reasonable local solution ... is it the only solution, the least expensive, and the best interim step? Don't know ... maybe it is another tool in the toolbox, which hopefully has more than one tool in it.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

The local shelter here is based on $75 per week. If you work/get a check you get two meals a day and four to the room. Stay sober and you can achieve what ever your goal is. Showers are there with a closet for personal items. Storage out back for tools / mowers and weed wackers if you do chose... It's full!!!


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> Shelters are good things, in their own way, and perhaps a reasonable local solution ... is it the only solution, the least expensive, and the best interim step? Don't know ... maybe it is another tool in the toolbox, which hopefully has more than one tool in it.


In my mind they will only work if they are structured and have hard and fast rules. If your not going to be homeless you have to play by most of the rules anyway. Plus you have to give them something to work towards. If not, it's all for nothing. This shelter has been around longer than I have been alive and with 100 percent private money. They can only help those that want to be helped though.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

Take care of not only the physical need but also the spiritual. The goal should be that the homeless be given a new purpose in life and a new self-worth so they will then strive to eventually be self-sufficient. 
Pacific Garden Mission does this.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

TripleD said:


> The local shelter here is based on $75 per week. If you work/get a check you get two meals a day and four to the room. Stay sober and you can achieve what ever your goal is. Showers are there with a closet for personal items. Storage out back for tools / mowers and weed wackers if you do chose... It's full!!!


It's a good deal for four people on the same crew. Drive the crew cab to work and head back at quitting time. Only one television to the room of four. Cheaper than a motel just grab lunch while you are gone!!!


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> ... the issue is the homeless, and to this thread, tack on your (real) solutions, as comment free as possible. In this way, perhaps we can better compare and contrast between real solution ideas. Because I posted this in General Chat, I don't know if this thread can remain "chat-free", but inflammatory comments on _any particular solution_ might be better served in a separate thread for that solution?
> 
> _My_ solution to homelessness is ... each city surpassing a homeless threshold should consider:
> 
> ...


.

You can't change the people around you; but you can change the people around you. 

Please ask for an explanation if you don't get it.

I have BTDT as far as homelessness. Nearly five years worth as I built my life back from zero after being kicked to the curb by my wife of 26 years..

While I do believe there are the mentally ill and some genuine need out there, that need is crushed under the inexorable weight of bums. Those who have chosen homelessness as a lifestyle because they lack the maturity and discipline to join the rest of productive society and choose to live by being parasites, sucking the life and vigor out of all the well-meaning who reach out to them. Because most do-gooders are saps and suckers for a sob story or a cardboard sign on the median.

Ever watched The Grapes of Wrath? Those people depicted were up against it, yet they didn't whine and roll around like they were gut-shot demanding to be rescued from their circumstances. It may have been a movie, however that is a demonstration of how survivors react to hardship. 

They get back up when they are knocked down hard, dust themselves off and solider on.

Most do-gooders are doing nothing more than enabling and exacerbating the problem, rather than facilitating any worthwhile change.

It's the same as giving an alky a bottle of Jack Daniel's and slapping yourself on the back because you eased his pain.

Hardcase? Bet your ass. 

I have zero tolerance or sympathy for those who I have given an opportunity only to be spurned because it can't be turned into adult beverages or recreational substances.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Tom Horn said:


> .
> 
> You can't change the people around you; but you can change the people around you.
> 
> ...


So what's your solution?


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

Let's take step 3 or 4 of my plan, and amend it to add "here's the local shelter" in this area. My nearby town doesn't have a shelter, but it does have half a dozen churches, etc., all of whom would lend a helping hand or point someone in the next direction.

Kind of a "you are here" map arrow, with all these other things listed in relation!


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Many many years ago in Texas we helped build one room building s bed kitchenette shower sink toilet. Larger open area building for rec room group meeting group meals. Withing a short time the upkeep became too much. Not having someone on site 24 7 to monitor behavior and transportation medical mental health drug testing rehab the list kept growing. Seems free doesn't work. A lot of the reson people become homeless keeps them for becoming tenets. 
With rules they cant and wont follow keeps them on the streets. Otherwise they could just live rough in a campground. States could offer section 8 for campgrounds state parks ect. But they wont because of the issues with behavior and lossing paying guests . shoot use some of the million storm sandy trailers the government owns.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Easy peasy - Open up a couple large mothballed army/air force bases.
They have _everything_ anyone wants/needs for the homeless. 
Makes it easier for services to be rendered with everyone in the same place. 
I bet if run correctly, you'd find some good leaders rise to the top. 





__





OurMilitary.com







www.ourmilitary.com


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Wolf mom said:


> Easy peasy - Open up a couple large mothballed army/air force bases.
> They have _everything_ anyone wants/needs for the homeless.
> Makes it easier for services to be rendered with everyone in the same place.
> I bet if run correctly, you'd find some good leaders rise to the top.
> ...


I don't want this to get thrown in the basement. This should happen with Congress. Roll call and breakfast at 0600, on the bus to work and be back in their district after four months. I'm simple minded I know!?!?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Wolf mom said:


> Easy peasy - Open up a couple large mothballed army/air force bases.
> They have _everything_ anyone wants/needs for the homeless.
> Makes it easier for services to be rendered with everyone in the same place.
> I bet if run correctly, you'd find some good leaders rise to the top.
> ...


I remember you posting about this before and I still think it sounds like a good idea.
we also have an old psychiatric hospital outside town and that might be a good place to have a homeless facility.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

One of the keys to getting people off the street is location. They are in those cities because they want to be there. Otherwise, they would take a bus ticket to move on. The services used to move them from street to a home need to be based where they are. Moving them to camps or army or air force bases in other places is not conducive to integrating them into the places they want to live.

It is far cheaper in the long run to solve the problems that are the reason they are on the street for those that you can.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

mreynolds said:


> So what's your solution?


Quit sitting around waiting for someone else to rescue you.

Get off your [butt] * and work your way out of the situation that you are most likely 99% responsible for in the first place. 

If you are willing to work, you will find work.

It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

Observers need to stop applying worst case scenarios to homelessness. "Oh the humanity!!" wears as thin as Chicken Little's, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" 

"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid."- John Wayne

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."- Albert Einstein

* Edited by Shrek 5/3/21 7:14 PM CDST
Content originally posted in brackets is only acceptable on equine board .


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> All these specific programs like "housing first" are way above my pay grade ... they seem more long-term than short-term; definitely do them if it fits the local environment and it can be gotten off the ground.
> 
> My solution was simply to provide a place to land, find resources, and move on to the next stage, whatever that is given your scenario and the area you are in.


"Housing first" can seem overwhelming, but its really a philosophical underpinning, and the details are less important than the principles. The notion of steering people towards permanent housing rather than temporary fixes like shelters or camps is because (a) a lot of the resources and energy that could go into permanent solutions gets siphoned off by temporary fixes, and (b) those models don't work for everyone.

I am not knocking shelters, the people who run them are well-intentioned, and some people do benefit. But we know that there are many, many homeless people who simply do not feel safe in a shelter. It's also not the most dignified environment. If you get a chance, read Down & Out in Paris & London, by George Orwell, it paints a vivid picture of the experience.

the camp setting sounds better, and your description did remind me of the government camp described in Grapes of Wrath. A camp-like facility as a temporary solution isn't the worst idea, but not everyone will fit in, and eventually we have to look at permanent solutions. 

Interesting thread, thanks for starting it.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Tom Horn said:


> Quit sitting around waiting for someone else to rescue you.
> 
> Get off your [butt]* and work your way out of the situation that you are most likely 99% responsible for in the first place.
> 
> ...


I don't need to be rescued.

This thread wasn't to rant about the homeless. If you want to do that there is another thread for that one. Perhaps you could be considerate enough to respect the op's wishes and go there for that instead.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Tom Horn said:


> Quit sitting around waiting for someone else to rescue you.
> 
> Get off your ass and work your way out of the situation that you are most likely 99% responsible for in the first place.
> 
> ...


Trust me!!! Mreynolds has worked his way up.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

I only read the first couple posts and saw what I expected-- everybody seems to miss some basic science on this subject--

There are two types of homeless people-- the temporary homeless and the hardcore, shall we say, for lack of a better term.

The temporary type includes, for example, the young wife who has finally taken her last beating from the drunken husband, [acks the three kids and a few clothes in the Chevy, drives off to live in the car for a few days. She's resourceful, seeks help from the local social service agencies and they help her out with housing, food, etc until she can find a job and provide for herself...Maybe there's the person who is laid off work, runs thru savings, etc. They to can & do get plenty of help from local agencies.

The ones we read about and see on the news are the hard core types-- They are basically suffering from severe mental illness-- schizophrenia, often of the paranoid type. That's compounded by their all too frequent drug/alcohol use...I'm familiar with the situation in Chicago where there are literally hundreds of shelter beds, good meals, etc available but unused. These people don't trust anyone and actually feel safer living in their cardboard boxes on Lower Wacker Drive then to make use of the several city/county & private agency facilities easily accessible to and for them.

There is plenty of money and resources available. It is largely misplaced, spent in the wrong places and for the wrong things by well meaning but uninformed authorities....The problem probably isn't any bigger now on a percentage basis than ever before, but remember, US population has triples since we BabyBoomers were born, and family life has deteriorated since than also...These people were taken care of by family in the old days, and despite his name, Big Brother is not a good family man.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

TripleD said:


> Trust me!!! Mreynolds has worked his way up.


And I was one truly homeless living under a bridge. No jobs then. Took me 4 months until I was back on my feet. Never asked for anything free but I did ask for work.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> And I was one truly homeless living under a bridge. No jobs then. Took me 4 months until I was back on my feet. Never asked for anything free but I did ask for work.


Wasn't it oatmeal?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

If I was Mayor.

Homeless people don't get to make the rules.
Advocates for homeless people don't get to make the rules.
Homeless people shall follow the rules,
Homeless people who violate the rules will get arrested.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

TripleD said:


> Wasn't it oatmeal?


Yes. No sugar or salt or anything. Just creek water. A box of Quaker Oats will last a week if you stretch it. Back then it was 2 quarters a box. You could find that in the phone booth of you were lucky.


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## boatswain2PA (Feb 13, 2020)

The Paw said:


> The notion of steering people towards permanent housing rather than temporary fixes like shelters or camps is because (a) a lot of the resources and energy that could go into permanent solutions gets siphoned off by temporary fixes, and (b) those models don't work for everyone.


There are a RIDICULOUS amount of programs like this. They dont work for most because of the behaviours of the "tenants".


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

boatswain2PA said:


> There are a RIDICULOUS amount of programs like this. They dont work for most because of the behaviours of the "tenants".


You will never be able to help them all. Only the ones that want help.


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

mreynolds said:


> I don't need to be rescued.
> 
> This thread wasn't to rant about the homeless. If you want to do that there is another thread for that one. Perhaps you could be considerate enough to respect the op's wishes and go there for that instead.


My solution is to work your way out of homelessness.

That is one of the most effective cures.

Karen


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

TripleD said:


> Trust me!!! Mreynolds has worked his way up.


So have I.

But I didn't come here to play you show me yours and I'll show you mine.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Tom Horn said:


> My solution is to work your way out of homelessness.
> 
> That is one of the most effective cures.
> 
> Karen


Did you just call him a Karen?


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> You will never be able to help them all. Only the ones that want help.


But what about those who don’t want help. Just want to live where they please in city parks or yards drinking and drugging contentedly?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> contentedly


Are they?

I'd suggest tortured


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Lisa in WA said:


> But what about those who don’t want help. Just want to live where they please in city parks or yards drinking and drugging contentedly?


Sadly, I have no answer to that one.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Tom Horn said:


> So have I.
> 
> But I didn't come here to play you show me yours and I'll show you mine.


My personal way up?!?! Simple go get a job! I never play baby games. Learn the job from the one above you and teach it to the one below you. You're on point now!!!


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

[


HDRider said:


> Are they?
> 
> I'd suggest tortured


That may be. but if they’ve rejected a way out of addiction or illness, then that’s on them. 
not that I’d abandon them or society at large. Those are the ones who should be at a mental health or addiction recovery centers. Or whatever they’d call them.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> [
> 
> 
> That may be. but if they’ve rejected a way out of addiction or illness, then that’s on them.
> not that I’d abandon them or society at large. Those are the ones who should be at a mental health or addiction recovery centers. Or whatever they’d call them.


I think they are incapable of breaking addiction, flotsam


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

MoonRiver said:


> If I was Mayor.
> 
> Homeless people don't get to make the rules.
> Advocates for homeless people don't get to make the rules.
> ...


Sounds good on paper. How many extra holding cells does your jail have? How’s your grocery budget? My dad recalled when a fair sized group of homeless had camped along the river, were stealing cattle to eat During the depression. County could not feed them due to lack of funds. No arrests could be made. Solution? Cattleman’s association stepped in, donated beef. Thefts stopped.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> One of the keys to getting people off the street is location. They are in those cities because they want to be there. Otherwise, they would take a bus ticket to move on. The services used to move them from street to a home need to be based where they are. Moving them to camps or army or air force bases in other places is not conducive to integrating them into the places they want to live.
> 
> It is far cheaper in the long run to solve the problems that are the reason they are on the street for those that you can.


Thats what real estate is all about.
Location, location, location.
Not everyone gets to live where they want because they can’t afford it. Meaning most people.
California, Portland, Spokane, Seattle, NY, Austin, Miami, etc. All high price cities. Why should the homeless get to live in cities that hard working people can’t afford to live in, just because they want to.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I think they are incapable of breaking addiction, flotsam


Then protect the rest of us from them.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

My thoughts:

There are many, many of congregations, of many different belief systems, enjoying tax-free status. Since most religions espouse helping others, how about each congregation takes a few homeless/down on their luck folks, and commits to helping them get into a higher functioning place in the world?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Pony said:


> My thoughts:
> 
> There are many, many of congregations, of many different belief systems, enjoying tax-free status. Since most religions espouse helping others, how about each congregation takes a few homeless/down on their luck folks, and commits to helping them get into a higher functioning place in the world?


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Evons hubby said:


> Sounds good on paper. How many extra holding cells does your jail have? How’s your grocery budget? My dad recalled when a fair sized group of homeless had camped along the river, were stealing cattle to eat During the depression. County could not feed them due to lack of funds. No arrests could be made. Solution? Cattleman’s association stepped in, donated beef. Thefts stopped.


Civics lesson: We have a representative government. We elect city council members who are to handle the affairs of the city. They are not doing their job. If I was Mayor, I would force the issue and put the responsibility exactly where it belongs - City Council.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

HDRider said:


>


Well, that gets people fed.Pretty slick.

Now to get them functioning in a reasonably autonomous way...


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Lisa in WA said:


> Thats what real estate is all about.
> Location, location, location.
> Not everyone gets to leave where they want because they can’t afford it. Meaning most people.
> California, Portland, Spokane, Seattle, NY, Austin, Miami, etc. All high price cities. Why should the homeless get to live in cities that hard working people can’t afford to live in, just because they want to.


Exactly. Not having housing that hard working can afford is why many become homeless . The beginning of the cycle that creates a good portion of homelessness. Affordable housing essential to reversing the cycle for that portion of the workforce.


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

Lisa in WA said:


> [
> 
> 
> That may be. but if they’ve rejected a way out of addiction or illness, then that’s on them.
> not that I’d abandon them or society at large. Those are the ones who should be at a mental health or addiction recovery centers. Or whatever they’d call them.


There are not near enough facilities to cover them.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Exactly. Not having housing that hard working can afford is why many become homeless . The beginning of the cycle that creates a good portion of homelessness. * Affordable housing essential to reversing the cycle for that portion of the workforce.*


There is affordable housing. It's just not always where some want to live. Some cities are just too expensive for some people.


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## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

Sorry, I don’t really have the answers, but a little experience. Most has been touched on already.
We used to live in an urban area south of Milwaukee. My wife volunteered at our local homeless shelter, and it was eye opening. The majority of the people there were there by choice. She estimates about 1/2 were mentally ill and/or drunks or addicted. Some people would rather live on the street and not have the responsibility of a place to keep or bills to keep track of, even if it’s given to them. It’s just a hassle and another thing they have to be responsible for.
I remember the story she told me of one of the other volunteers going to the bank with one of the people in the shelter. He had $18,000 in his bank account, but chose to be homeless. It’s just the way he was. He didn’t want his own place.
I think Tom Horn mentioned it, but you can’t help someone who doesn’t want to help themselves. Same goes for the drunks and addicts. I don’t think we’ll ever see 100% homelessness.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

67drake said:


> Sorry, I don’t really have the answers, but a little experience. Most has been touched on already.
> We used to live in an urban area south of Milwaukee. My wife volunteered at our local homeless shelter, and it was eye opening. The majority of the people there were there by choice. She estimates about 1/2 were mentally ill and/or drunks or addicted. Some people would rather live on the street and not have the responsibility of a place to keep or bills to keep track of, even if it’s given to them. It’s just a hassle and another thing they have to be responsible for.
> I remember the story she told me of one of the other volunteers going to the bank with one of the people in the shelter. He had $18,000 in his bank account, but chose to be homeless. It’s just the way he was. He didn’t want his own place.
> I think Tom Horn mentioned it, but you can’t help someone who doesn’t want to help themselves. Same goes for the drunks and addicts. I don’t think we’ll ever see 100% homelessness.


We will never see 100 percent homeowners either!!!


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

TripleD said:


> We will never see 100 percent homeowners either!!!


Hope not!


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

kinderfeld said:


> Hope not!


If we do I might have to go into my second profession or third!!! I could have to get a job...


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

TripleD said:


> ...I could have to get a job...


That would suck. Fortunately, I don't see it happening.


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## stars at night (Mar 12, 2021)

Forcast said:


> Many many years ago in Texas we helped build one room building s bed kitchenette shower sink toilet. Larger open area building for rec room group meeting group meals. Withing a short time the upkeep became too much. Not having someone on site 24 7 to monitor behavior and transportation medical mental health drug testing rehab the list kept growing. Seems free doesn't work. A lot of the reson people become homeless keeps them for becoming tenets.
> With rules they cant and wont follow keeps them on the streets. Otherwise they could just live rough in a campground. States could offer section 8 for campgrounds state parks ect. But they wont because of the issues with behavior and lossing paying guests . shoot use some of the million storm sandy trailers the government owns.


you hit it right on


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

keenataz said:


> There are not near enough facilities to cover them.


Not currently perhaps. That’s why some propose to revamp military bases or possibly create entirely new facilities dedicated to giving our homeless a fresh chance at life on their own.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

I think there is room for many more tools in the toolbox ... what I suggested wasn't the only thing that can be done. It can and should be part of a bigger framework, which again, is above my pay grade. However, a place to land and a toilet/shower isn't much of a free handout, and I don't think it will empty out any other long-term solution; the intent was that it be "temporary". Item 3 (and 4) was to point the temporarily homeless towards other resources and more permanent solutions.

In a way, this also accommodates the the can't/won't crowd (they want to be homeless), by becoming the "official" place to do the things that are the main pain points elsewhere IN EACH CITY ... you get caught p**-ing, showering, sleeping elsewhere, then go to jail. But why do this illegal thing, when the absolute minimum service of these functions exist in each city? This way (and I'm no lawyer), the city has a leg to stand on, if a service was available but you still did these things in front of city hall.

It's up to each city (we want a local solution) to decide where the temporary facility goes, and it should be much easier to get this off the ground, at much less cost, than converting a military base, or a hospital, or any other such solution; those sound like "great city" only options to me.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

kinderfeld said:


> That would suck. Fortunately, I don't see it happening.


I'm thankful on that. Somebody on here might give me an interview... Who knows I might be an idiot 🤣...


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

TripleD said:


> If we do I might have to go into my second profession or third!!! I could have to get a job...


Yuck! I had a job once... didn’t like it, this guy kept coming around wanting me to do stuff!


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> Yuck! I had a job once... didn’t like it, this guy kept coming around wanting me to do stuff!


You were /are self employed. Don't be taking orders from yourself ☺...


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

TripleD said:


> You were /are self employed. Don't be taking orders from yourself ☺...


True, I was self employed, but I had a great boss then!


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> True, I was self employed, but I had a great boss then!


Those tenants are still our employees even if you don't see it that way...


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

TripleD said:


> Those tenants are still our employees even if you don't see it that way...


Ima good boss to them too.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Posted 5/3/21 7:03 PM CDST

Many years ago a coworker seeing a line of shopping cart scrap collectors wagon training to a scrap yard joked that including the scrap they recycled that the city should give the shopping cart scrap collectors free shoes with miniature street cleaner rollers so as they shuffled along collecting scrap , they could also clean sidewalks and gutters as they made the city cleaner making their daily petty cash.

His joke got me thinking how the city's resident recycle effort was a failure at the time and I wondered what if the city built a combination recycling center / homeless shelter providing "3 hots , cot and showers" sort of jail house or boot camp commissary account style..

The first level would be the homeless cart pushers selling their scrap for their petty cash, but also earn basic needed clothing / hygiene items , a cot, and meals for their labor.

Next level would be like in the military boot camp couse, they advance and become part time cart collectors and part time recycle center work for allowance pay in their "luxury snack accounts.

Third and fourth level could be movement to better municipal labor , pay and transition back to society during their progression.

Of course, during all phases, the homeless population's health could be monitored by a shelter clinic

Maybe in the upper progression levels, GED / junior college classes could be offered to help the cream of the crop to move further into tax paying society.

It wouldn't work for all the homeless population but with municipal recycling centers, labor jobs and domestic volunteer projects, maybe 1/4 would return to gainful society as many former service personnel are homeless and maybe the clinics could identify homeless mentally ill better as municipalities eliminate some hobo jungles , improve waste recycling and augment their labor pools..


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

^^^^
Good idea


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Those who advocate _just_ "get a job" probably have no idea these days how difficult it is without an address, phone or transportation. (even with government 'free phones')

Those who advocate "go to a shelter" most likely don't realize that unless you're in front of the line, there's not enough beds - and when you do get in, you're likely to be robbed or worse.

There was a study done years ago in Phoenix where free housing (small apartment) was given to the homeless. The result was that within 6 months, most were back on the streets as, basically, they did not want to live under "someone else's rules".

Most of what is advocated, is similar to what is already being done to relieve the homeless situation. Doing the same thing over and over, just dressed in different wording is, yes, crazy.

I believe, some of what is needed, is to enforce rules already on the books - No loitering, etc. People don't allow kids to sleep anywhere, so why allow homeless, many with altered thought processes, to do the same?

Having worked in social services, (now retired). I believe the whole social services system needs revamping. A lot of "helping" is just perpetuating the problem. "Give a man a fish, you feed him for today, teach him to fish, you feed him forever." We're doing a lot of giving, not teaching. Not always literally. A hand up not a hand out....

Tough love is hard, on both sides. Few like it as it _is _hard. A line has to be drawn and kept.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

WM just enhanced my solution ... brilliant! That's how ideas are supposed to flow back and forth!

The whole reason to have a resource area as I described, is that one _can_ get showered and cleaned up, and make it through that next job interview, even while living in your car or pitching a tent, for reasons beyond your control.

Now, I need to add to the plan to get a free-use phone (do they still make public phones?), and some kind of anonymous postal service hub (mailbox pedestal?). Those who temporarily found themselves without a home can make use of these things to get back on their feet.

No rules, just make use if you want of a service (resource area) provided by each city.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

My solution is bring back the CCC the civilian conservation corps or something like it. it could be any number of projects. work for the day , and eat that night and get your breakfast and lunch for the next.

not to far off what Shrek was saying. just an expansion of possibilities.

the CCC was developed to teach young men how to work , give them skills and train them in how to hold a job.

it needs to pay for it's self at least over time to large extent. renovating housing , invasive vegetation removal , erosion projects


Shrek said:


> Posted 5/3/21 7:03 PM CDST
> 
> Many years ago a coworker seeing a line of shopping cart scrap collectors wagon training to a scrap yard joked that including the scrap they recycled that the city should give the shopping cart scrap collectors free shoes with miniature street cleaner rollers so as they shuffled along collecting scrap , they could also clean sidewalks and gutters as they made the city cleaner making their daily petty cash.
> 
> ...



this is similar to my idea which is to revive the CCC civilian conservation corps Civilian Conservation Corps - Wikipedia.

in the 2021 world it should extend to men and women 

the pay would be roughly equaling to 600 dollars a month now , but it included food , shelter , health and clothing.

it made them more employable training labor skills 
if persons 17 -28 had this program it would be helpful

at the same time a work a day eat for a day program for others.

what we know doesn't work is giving anything away 


my daughter started her first job recently she is 16 , unfortunately she is realizing even people employed are often trying to do the minimum. She has only been there 2 weeks and can point out people who like to avoid the work. unfortunately in the current labor market just keeping the positions filled for each shift is an issue.

seems odd we talk about how nearly every business can't hire enough people right now yet there are many people still collecting unemployment 

I feel far to many are holding out for a Cousin Eddie "I am waiting for a position in management"


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Why try? Why work? Why bother?? When the government gives you free phones, free food, free medical and a pay check every once in a while.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

GCP ... that idea is good enough to steal! I'll add a piece to my solution, something along the lines of:

Each city donates land (something they usually have or can acquire); needs bus route or other method of access to all other services. Using their folks and equipment, they build the "bones" of the site (roads, restroom/shower, etc.).

The Homeless Corp ("THC is free here" ... which should attract a few before they figure out what the acronym really means!) will then jump in to finish out the site, hopefully reducing the overall cost of site construction ... it's all manual labor, so no conflict with trades. Get local businesses to donate/fund/hire from participating homeless, and perhaps the labor pool just got bigger, while reducing problems elsewhere.

After the site is built out, continue the program, in CCC-style, wherever it is that the participating city needs other work done. It's free labor, and the homeless participants get all kinds of benefits from that (like job interviews with a guaranteed bump to the top of the list, because of work performed).

How's that for reducing startup costs ...


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Tom Horn said:


> .
> 
> You can't change the people around you; but you can change the people around you.
> 
> ...


Very well said.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> GCP ... that idea is good enough to steal! I'll add a piece to my solution, something along the lines of:
> 
> Each city donates land (something they usually have or can acquire); needs bus route or other method of access to all other services. Using their folks and equipment, they build the "bones" of the site (roads, restroom/shower, etc.).
> 
> ...


This sounds very nice, but it is based on the idea that the homeless want to work, and or get back to a more normal life. The majority of them do not want to change, they have come to like their lifestyle, and have learned to live on the free bees and handouts. Without the very real incentive of staying out of jail, or going hungry, you will never get more than thirty or forty percent participation. My guess on the percentage of those who will participate is probably too high. Probably closer to ten percent.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

Agreed ... but I'm OK with some fraction of 100%, as the original solution accommodated both groups ... those wanting help and those not. In the end, you are getting out (of the situation) because services are available where they weren't before, or getting arrested (p**ing in front of city hall) ... I can live with that.

Again, I think the city has a better leg to stand on by offering the service(s), and then getting tough with the remainder ...

Far too often, I see the "getting tough" part, coupled with the "no help at all" part (I've traveled to way too many cities over my career). I think this idea of mine should be the very minimum of what is offered ... but, I'm a bit biased.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> ... the issue is the homeless, and to this thread, tack on your (real) solutions, as comment free as possible. In this way, perhaps we can better compare and contrast between real solution ideas.


Around my part of the world the majority of homelessness is due to people giving up on self discipline and their life due to drug and booze addiction. A slippery slope.

By the standards I was raised with, an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure.

So always stay clean. Respect money. Embrace hard work as a lifestyle.

Reject all foolishness of social pressure.

Look after yourself and your loved ones.

And always remember that not everyone out there is your friend, certainly not everyone out there has your best interests at heart.

So you have to be on guard for yourself at all times.

That’s my advice.


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

There are quite a few areas in the vicinity of Columbus, OH where there is an abundance of unoccupied office buildings. These are large, well-built buildings that could be converted into shelters as well as low income/affordable apartments. These buildings are in some of the safest parts of the city/suburbs, located on/near the bus lines, in good school districts (not Columbus City), and there are also plenty of job opportunities in many industries in these areas as well. Because these buildings are in office parks, thus not abutting some HOA subdivision where folks could complain, I would think the community would look favorably on this. Not sure how letting these large, empty buildings remain unoccupied is lining anyone’s pockets.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

My local building inspector once told me something like "I don't care what you do to the dirt ... push it around all you want, build roads, etc. Call me before you even _think_ about a building, so we can discuss the engineered plans and such".

Which makes me think a piece of land with nothing more than a restroom/shower facility on it, along with "prepared spots to park/camp" is the low-hanging fruit.

However, big cities might have no other choice? There's no land anywhere, but dead buildings abound. That'll be $10 million to bring each one up to code, before we let the 1st homeless person in (even though they are probably already in there).


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Everything homeless needs to be in walking distance. Guess thats why they live in town. Heck its 14 miles to town for me. If you dont have transportation its hard. If you take out the mental health folks, losing income loose your car then your home. Hard to get a job with out phone and transportation.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

It is interesting to watch this evolve.

“AUSTIN, Texas — On Thursday, the Austin City Council will consider a resolution related to creating designated campsites for people experiencing homelessness.”









Austin City Council approves resolution related to establishing designated homeless campsites


The resolution unanimously passed at the City Council meeting on Thursday.




www.kvue.com


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

Kinda wish they had put the carrot in place before swinging the stick, but ... voters have voted.

In other news, I solved the "keeping them warm" part, if camping at my proposed solution ... OK, I didn't solve it, but these folks did:









MICRO TINY HOME


MICRO TINY HOME




www.microtinyhome.com





I knew the tiny home would replace the McMansions ...


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

Those sleeping in their cars don't have the transportation problem (I think, if not broken down?); they just don't have a place to park. Those on foot, can take advantage of the bus system (I think they would?) that my proposal called for; they just don't have a place to pitch their tent.

What they don't have, in either case, is a place to shower ... kind of hard to jump out of your car or tent and go to that interview for something, when you aren't at a minimum cleaned up a bit.

I believe the big problem with homeless isn't that they are "homeless in the cities", it's that they are homeless without some _key_ resources (a space to land in, some minimal facilities, and _no stick_ hovering over them), and I believe my proposal gives those, that want it, the absolute minimum lift up. I can't count the number of times someone else gave me a key resource, and all of a sudden I could do the thing I was trying to do, and do it right. There's still a lot wrong with my solution ... no doubt, but it seems to be inching in the right direction ... just needs a little more pushing along.

"... in a way, we is all homeless--just working our way toward home.” Movie/book "same kind of different as me"


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Sad to think of that many people who's family have given up on them.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

There are reasons for everything.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

My grandpa born in 1909 told me this . " You can't save all the birds in all the trees down thru the woods" I don't mind helping but I can't refloat the ship... He picked oranges in florida before he started up the moonshine still!!!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> There are reasons for everything.


Can a person be "saved" from a self destructive life style when their own family has given up on them?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Can a person be "saved" from a self destructive life style when their own family has given up on them?


Everyone can be. It's just a matter them wanting it bad enough.


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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

I doubt the homeless situation will ever be solved! However, the "cities" (like Portland) could do much by enforcing its own laws!

All people have a right to live as they choose...as long as it does not encroach upon the right of another to do the same; yet so many of the homeless have no respect for themselves let alone respect for the rights of others. Trying to teach this respect has to start with each city's respecting its own boundaries. If the homeless cannot get in and stay in they will learn or move on. If they learn then making opportunities for those willing is a "must" for any city that actually respects itself. 

I certainly have no solutions; however, I do think were each city to establish an area "outside its boundaries" where the homeless can at least clean up and sleep just might be a good first step. And having some type of transportation to and from that area might be a 2nd good step as it could provide a means for those truly interested in bettering themselves. (There are always jobs to be had in the cities for anyone willing to do the work even though those jobs may not be what most would call good jobs. Still it is a step in the right direction....but only for the homeless actually wanting to better themselves.)


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Everyone can be. It's just a matter them wanting it bad enough.


That is my point. None of this will do anything to "save" the homeless that will not make the change for themselves and in themselves.

The best one can hope is that the homeless do one day decide to get better. The real question is what to do in the meantime.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

HDRider said:


> That is my point. None of this will do anything to "save" the homeless that will not make the change for themselves and in themselves.
> 
> The best one can hope is that the homeless do one day decide to get better. The real question is what to do in the meantime.


The one size fits all solution hasn't worked well in the past and is unlikely to start working well in the near future. 

I would suggest that with so many reasons for people to become homeless, we need to look at broader solutions.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Or realize there is no “solution,” there is only management.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Or realize there is no “solution,” there is only management.


Not to quibble, but I would say that there are no panaceas, but there are a wide range of solutions. And for a certain percentage of people on that continuum, managing the problem is the only practical solution.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Or realize there is no “solution,” there is only management.


Right. Either let them self destruct with as little public harm, or wait and hope they bounce back after hitting bottom. Some hit bottom many times. If you don't splatter you rise up, and keep going.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Paw said:


> Not to quibble, but I would say that there are no panaceas, but there are a wide range of solutions. And for a certain percentage of people on that continuum, managing the problem is the only practical solution.


Undoubtedly. Then the question arises as to how much management do you "force" on them. Is the management for the public benefit, or for the benefit of the homeless individual. It is not always, maybe not even more often than not, to the benefit of both.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Here is the next step for Texas, not just Austin.









Texas House advances bill that would ban homeless encampments in public


The bill still needs final approval by the House — usually a formality after it's passed in the chamber's first vote — and then will head to the Senate.




www.kvue.com


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

In reference to not quibbling,  As a former English teacher, to solve something means to end or rectify a problem.

Your definition may include additional connotations.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Aaaahhhhh. More information.










late Middle English (in the sense ‘loosen, dissolve, untie’): from Latin _solvere_ ‘loosen, unfasten

Therefore, to partially relieve the problem WOULD be called a solution.

I stand corrected.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I stand corrected.


Go ahead and sit down


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Undoubtedly. Then the question arises as to how much management do you "force" on them. Is the management for the public benefit, or for the benefit of the homeless individual. It is not always, maybe not even more often than not, to the benefit of both.


Well, enforcement strategies imposed upon people have notoriously poor results in addressing homelessness. Fines don't mean a lot to people with nothing left to lose, and incarceration is much more expensive for society than other solutions that require the consent of the homeless.

As a society we have a strong tendency to want to sit in judgement on the less fortunate, to point out their situation is their own darn fault, and to posit that only if they acted like us, they would be fine. The reality is that this does nothing to really solve either the problem of the homeless person, or the problem of communities and citizens that are inconvenienced.

For some reason, we seem to be willing to spend more on cops and jails than treatment, alterative housing, social supports, income supports, all the things that help people move from homelessness to more stable situations. There has been this socialization where "Joe Taxpayer" figures that if an addict gets treatment, a poor person gets food stamps, or someone in crisis gets counselling, that they are somehow getting over on us. 

If we could get past these mindsets and invest in supports that address the actual individual needs of people experiencing homelessness, both we and they would benefit many times over.


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Aaaahhhhh. More information.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very gracious of you, I was going to let it go, because there seemed no way to reply without becoming a quibbler.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

So, it seems Austin, even with the current ban in place (the stick), might be inching towards a formal campsite (the carrot?), whereas Texas seems to think the stick needs to be in place at the state level.

Elsewhere across the country, many cities have the stick firmly in place, or are moving towards it. If any solution is being proposed for the homeless in the same city with a stick, it is pretty much shelters and housing first, both of which are expensive, and neither of which can keep up.

I still think a barebones site, with car and camping slots, would be the minimal solution ... it helps those that want help (30%), and is part of the stick for those that don't/won't (70%). If evictions proceed, with all the pent-up demand in there, the 30% number would bump up ... I might have to give up on the camp site solution, and move faster on the "how to live in a vehicle with a family of four" solution. Walmart will run out of parking slots (at the back of the lot).

Perhaps it is not that we can't move to a solution phase and find something that works, from top to bottom, it is that we aren't done with the stick phase?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

You still have to incorporate some kind of stick as well as a carrot. Not everyone responds to the same stimuli.

My bil got fat on carrots that I gave him for years. It was the stick that actually gave him the help he needed.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

See if you can find the show
United States of tents.
If you want to build a homeless camp solution this will show the dos and don'ts .


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

The Paw said:


> Well, enforcement strategies imposed upon people have notoriously poor results in addressing homelessness. Fines don't mean a lot to people with nothing left to lose, and incarceration is much more expensive for society than other solutions that require the consent of the homeless.
> 
> As a society we have a strong tendency to want to sit in judgement on the less fortunate, to point out their situation is their own darn fault, and to posit that only if they acted like us, they would be fine. The reality is that this does nothing to really solve either the problem of the homeless person, or the problem of communities and citizens that are inconvenienced.
> 
> ...


You are aware that 2/3 of our annual federal budget goes to social programs.... right? Probably more this year with the COVID relief payouts.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Austin does NOT have a ban in place. The vote to reinstate it was last Saturday. Nothing has changed. The mayor has called for a study. When I was in Austin yesterday, most of the areas under overpasses were still fully populated.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




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## motdaugrnds (Jul 3, 2002)

Well this is going to sound harsh; but if a city does not respect its own boundaries, it gets what it deserves, i.e. the trashy homeless sites under bridges and in parking lots.............

I relate the homeless situation to one needing some "tough love", i.e. either you follow the home rules or you stay out! (A good parent often has an alternative plan that provides a safe option for the one they are pushing; and in the case of a "city", this could be an area outside the city limits that has some type of public cleaning facility, even a type of postal service, donation services, etc. for anyone "willing" to work for it, i.e. clean-up is one way anyone can work in any given area that can "earn" some respect, contribute "positively" to one's living area and actually benefit all around.)


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

The Paw said:


> Well, enforcement strategies imposed upon people have notoriously poor results in addressing homelessness. Fines don't mean a lot to people with nothing left to lose, and incarceration is much more expensive for society than other solutions that require the consent of the homeless.
> 
> As a society we have a strong tendency to want to sit in judgement on the less fortunate, to point out their situation is their own darn fault, and to posit that only if they acted like us, they would be fine. The reality is that this does nothing to really solve either the problem of the homeless person, or the problem of communities and citizens that are inconvenienced.
> 
> ...


Just as a point of order, when you say "we", do you have a mouse in your pocket or are you speaking for others?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Hiro said:


> Just as a point of order, when you say "we", do you have a mouse in your pocket or are you speaking for others?


Someone gave him permission to speak for everyone else. Not sure who


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

“We the people“ have rights too. Among them is having the right to say “not in my back yard”. Or my front yard, or the streets we built, or our parks or other places we built, own and maintain. Want to live like pigs, go find your own pig pen.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Some interesting ideas above. Seems drugs are a common issue. A variety of post also talk about the importance of motivation. Seems that a guy in the Philippines has been getting results with his anti drug program and thus helping out some of his other social problems. Lots of motivation seems common so as to not have to get involved with his program. Its a good example of how a problem needs to be solved before it gets out of hand. Keep in mind his program has got him elected several times by the general population as he has moved up the political ladder. His methods seem to work but are on the extreme side.

Rodrigo Roa Duterte 









Rodrigo Duterte - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Bring back poorhouses. If you make homelessness easier, you just get more homelessness. Just like if you pay unwed women to make babies, you get more unwed women having babies. Throw them all in a poorhouse and make them bust their butts for 8 hours for a day's room and board.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Redlands Okie said:


> Some interesting ideas above. Seems drugs are a common issue. A variety of post also talk about the importance of motivation. Seems that a guy in the Philippines has been getting results with his anti drug program and thus helping out some of his other social problems. Lots of motivation seems common so as to not have to get involved with his program. Its a good example of how a problem needs to be solved before it gets out of hand. Keep in mind his program has got him elected several times by the general population as he has moved up the political ladder. His methods seem to work but are on the extreme side.
> 
> Rodrigo Roa Duterte
> 
> ...


Looks like Jair Bolsunaro has similar ideas about drug runners. He just had 2 dozen of them killed in a shoot out.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

Homelessness and drug addiction are tow separate problems.

Drug addicts are not homeless. They are addicts and until that is removed housing them is a waste of time.

The homeless need to be helped. I know that in the two areas I have lived in in the last 20 years, most cheap housing has been torn down. That is a problem.

I have two members of my extended family that are drug addicts. Until THEY decide to change, nothing will change them. It is sadder than I can express.
(Oh, and BTW. I believe that when drug dealers are spotted, they should be knelt down, shot in the back of the head, and left there for a week, and that is the nice version of what I think should happen)


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

mreynolds said:


> So what's your solution?



Choose your friends wisely.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

jeepgrrl said:


> There are quite a few areas in the vicinity of Columbus, OH where there is an abundance of unoccupied office buildings. These are large, well-built buildings that could be converted into shelters as well as low income/affordable apartments. These buildings are in some of the safest parts of the city/suburbs, located on/near the bus lines, in good school districts (not Columbus City), and there are also plenty of job opportunities in many industries in these areas as well. Because these buildings are in office parks, thus not abutting some HOA subdivision where folks could complain, I would think the community would look favorably on this. Not sure how letting these large, empty buildings remain unoccupied is lining anyone’s pockets.


And those buildings belong to somebody, they are private property, the community doesn't have anything to say about it. If you gave the buildings over to the homeless, within six weeks they would be trashed beyond repair.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> Homelessness and drug addiction are tow separate problems.
> 
> Drug addicts are not homeless. They are addicts and until that is removed housing them is a waste of time.
> 
> ...


If their were no addicts, the drugs dealers would be out of business. They are all killing themselves slowly, too slowly I think.


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa said:


> (Oh, and BTW. I believe that when drug dealers are spotted, they should be knelt down, shot in the back of the head, and left there for a week, and that is the nice version of what I think should happen)


Or just open the borders and let drugs flow freely all through the country.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I think we are supposed to label posts like that

SARCASM


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

muleskinner2 said:


> If their were no addicts, the drugs dealers would be out of business. They are all killing themselves slowly, too slowly I think.


Discontinue the use of Naloxone (Narcan, Evzio). No need to be helping the habit to be continued.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Get rid of demand, the dealers will fold up shop. Instead of destroying seized drugs, lace it with arsenic and put it back on the streets. Less demand, fewer dealers, fewer homeless.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

Evons hubby said:


> Get rid of demand, the dealers will fold up shop. Instead of destroying seized drugs, lace it with arsenic and put it back on the streets. Less demand, fewer dealers, fewer homeless.


Or just decriminalize it. That way, while there may be a market, the dealers and drug lords will not have a place in it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Pony said:


> Or just decriminalize it. That way, while there may be a market, the dealers and drug lords will not have a place in it.


It would put a lot of G Men out of work too


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Someone gave him permission to speak for everyone else. Not sure who


He does have a tendency to be condescending in his posts. Kind of a mansplainer. No offense to men who don’t patronize others in their posts.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

The Paw said:


> Well, enforcement strategies imposed upon people have notoriously poor results in addressing homelessness. Fines don't mean a lot to people with nothing left to lose, and incarceration is much more expensive for society than other solutions that require the consent of the homeless.
> 
> As a society we have a strong tendency to want to sit in judgement on the less fortunate, to point out their situation is their own darn fault, and to posit that only if they acted like us, they would be fine. The reality is that this does nothing to really solve either the problem of the homeless person, or the problem of communities and citizens that are *inconvenienced*.
> 
> ...


Inconvenienced?
Is that what you call being assaulted, raped, chased, harassed, losing your business, used needles all over parks diminished and property values?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Lisa in WA said:


> Inconvenienced?


Until it happens to him


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

I was able to pull some great information out of all your comments ... thanks, all! My design is actually ready to put into proposal form. Many of your good ideas will go into it as well ...

To summarize my original solution, which was a car/camping site:

it helps those who can be helped (upwards of 30%?)
it gives a legal leg up to cities, as there is a defined spot for homeless support; if doing any of the illegal things elsewhere, the city can and should come down hard on them (upwards of 70%?); this would include the drugs, alcohol, and such crowd, whom most think won't want help.
Other solutions included: converting existing/unused buildings, pointers to approaches like Austin's proposed camp site, Portland's "homeless villages", and so on. Beyond the "new" approaches, there are multitudes of "help" approaches, like housing first, etc. ... many organizations and programs exist to help, if those in need and desiring help can find and get to them.

Ban- or law-wise, many cities have all kinds of bans, and put forth all kinds of efforts to roust the problem out of the city.

I think that summarizes most everything ... it was an eye-opening thread ... thanks again!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Salt Lake City is building a tiny home village with shops and Airbnbs to address the homelessness crisis- see inside


A rendering of the tiny home village's neighborhood. Salt Lake City - Salt Lake City will be partnering with a nonprofit to create the Other Side Village to house the city's unhoused residents. - The village's neighborhoods will be filled with tiny homes, a popular shelter alternative being...




news.google.com





*Salt Lake City is building a tiny home village with shops and Airbnbs to address the homelessness crisis—*


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

“To create this community feel, the village will have communal spaces that surround these neighborhoods, including a garden, dog park, and community center, according to renderings of the village.”


I wonder what they will do when these areas are filled up by other homeless and thus create a unsafe environment for the ones living in the tiny homes. I assume this will be ok since its the method currently being practiced.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

With everything rules need to apply. Drug uses your out. At least one person in the home Having to work and pay rent. The show United States of Tents has a good setup in Hawaii cost millions to set up build infrastructure its for families with children for the most part. They do have to work and pay rent. The project does not pay for itself so money is needed. The projects developer believe breaking the chain of homeless needs to start with the children. In the show it has both a working system and the non working tent city right next to a vacation area.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)




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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

50ShadesOfDirt said:


> I was able to pull some great information out of all your comments ... thanks, all! My design is actually ready to put into proposal form. Many of your good ideas will go into it as well ...
> 
> To summarize my original solution, which was a car/camping site:
> 
> ...


I rem,ember when they had these same problems in NYC

They wasted money on some of the same "solutions" proposed here

The problems were only "solved" when Giuliani made law, order, and personal responsibility the way to run the city.

Now those principles have been thrown to the side and we have lawlessness. Shock!

Drug addicts are not homeless people.


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