# Older dog had a seizure



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

We have an 11-year-old lab-rott cross named Max. We've had him since he was a wee puppy. He's always been kinda big and dumb, but over the last year or so he has been getting a bit more "dense", but he has always been healthy.

Last night he had a seizure. He was outside in the dog run beside the house, with our other dog, Roxy. I heard some kind of weird loud scraping sound, then Roxy began barking.

I looked out the window to see Roxy barking into one of the dog houses. I threw some boots on and ran out into the dog run. Max was in his Igloo thrashing and foaming at the mouth. I took Roxy by the collar and led her to our house and handed her off to my husband. Told my softie husband to stay inside with Roxy till I figured out what was going on. Honestly, I though that the old dog was dying and I didn't want him to have to see it. Heck, I didn't want to see it either.

Went back to Max and the thrashing had stopped. Fearing the worst, I peeked into the dog house and Max had his head up and looked dazed. Lots of foam and some vomit on his face and dog house floor.

After a bit of coaxing I got Max out of the dog house. He was shaky and very weak. He was dazed and disoriented. Didn't respond to his name, but did respond to a kind voice. I sort of shepherded him toward the house, where my husband came out and handed me a leash.

Over the next three hours, Max slowly recovered. At first, he was ravenous and very thirsty. He was restless and disoriented. Kept running into things and displaying very out-of-character behavior (not agressive, though). Gradually he settled down, began obeying commands again, and finally after about five hours was back to his normal self.

I spent almost all of those five hours researching dog seizures on the Internet.

Today, I took Max outside with me while I cleaned stalls and exercised horses. He is easily tired and his back end is weak. He got disoriented and restless a couple of times. Once he went to the other side of the barn and wouldn't come when I called (very out-of-character). I went and found him and he was lying down. I called him to me and he had a hard time getting up. I can't tell if his hind end is really weak or if it is kind of weak and he is also dizzy.

Has anyone here had anything like this happen to their dog? All of the grand mal seizure stories I've found on the internet do not leave the dog with residual effects like this, unless they are having cluster seizures. His residual symptoms don't seem severe enough for him to be having cluster seizures.

As soon as I find out what is covered by his insurance (it figures: he's the only animal we have with health insurance and also the only one who has never needed it) we'll be taking him in to the vet to have them check some fluids. I don't think it could be epilepsy, as he is too old. I don't think it's diabetes.


----------



## GoldenMom (Jan 2, 2005)

Some dogs take a long time to recover from seizures (older dogs especially). You're right, at his age epilepsy is less common, so a vet visit is a good idea. I don't see why a seizure wouldn't be covered on his insurance. If all his blood values look good, I'd still consider anti-convulsant meds even though epilepsy is less likely.


----------



## RandB (Aug 13, 2002)

I can't offer too much help for you, but sending sympathy - our older dog is having some similar problems, too. He is a 9 yr. old lab cross, a big boy about 90 lbs. He's always been very healthy. Then about 8 weeks ago he had a seizure for the first time ever, as far as we know. He did fully recover from it, and has been OK since. During the seizure besides the usual symptoms, we noticed his body got extremely hot, too, but cooled down after.
Just today something happened with him. When we got up this morning, he had vomited in the living room. He was upset and panting hard. DH took him outside, said he peed many times. He did eat and take his walk normally. As the morning went on, he was drinking a lot, and laying around. When I saw him panting again (it is still cold weather here!) I took his temp. It was 104.6 !!! That scared me, I got an aspirin in him. He didn't want any food or water at that point. Now in the late afternoon, the fever seems to be gone, he ate his dinner, but is still kind of "droopy" compared to normal. I know (and hope) it could have been some kind of virus, but this fever spiking up concerns me, since he got very hot during the seizure. I'm wondering if all this stuff is connected somehow.
Good luck with your boy, hope he is soon back to normal!


----------



## Willow101 (Feb 20, 2008)

Siezures in older dogs have some, usually identifiable, underlying cause. These dogs should go to the vet for blood work and a physical.

Parasites also cause seizures. Whip worms will cause them and they are hard to diagnose because of the lifecycle. One of the very first things I would recommend is a good worming....but that too should be meds from the vet...not a pet shop.

Willow101


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

From what I have read, a high temperature during a seizure is common. In fact, if the dog has one of the more rare types of seizures that doesn't stop, the rapidly rising temperature can result in brain damage.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Max had another seizure last night. The recovery period was much longer this time. He couldn't even lift his head for an hour. I thought he was leaving us for sure. He eventually recovered enough to stand (with difficulty) and eat and he wags when when I talk to him, so we have a vet appointment in an hour.

Found his insurance paperwork. Don't know if it covers enough of a MRI for us to be able to get that, but at least we'll be able to do blood and urine tests.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Back from the vet. The vet took blood and urine samples. We'll know more tomorrow, even if it is just ruling some stuff out. From my description of the facial twitching just prior to last night's seizure, the vet feels that the seizures are intra-cranial in origin rather than extra-cranial. Still could be a chemical imbalance rather than a tumor, but we'll see. The vet sent us home with a needle-less syringe with liquid diazepam to admister rectally in the event of a seizure.

Hope it's not a brain tumor.


----------



## peacebaker (Dec 30, 2005)

Poor guy, here's hoping you get some good info on what's going on. Give him lots of hugs--sounds like he's a sweetie.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Just went out to collect a stool sample help and it's FULL OF TAPEWORMS!

I have read that a tapeworm infestation combined with a not-so-great commercial diet can lead to seizures!!!

Man-oh-man am I ever going to feel rotten if that is what is causing his seizures. OTOH, it would be treatable and reversible!


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Well, tapeworms aside, Max has low blood sugar! Very, very low blood sugar! "Normal" for a cat or dog is anywhere from 80-150. At the time that Max had blood drawn a couple of days ago, he hadn't fasted. In fact, he'd had a small meal about 4 hours prior to the blood draw. The blood glucose level in that sample was 50.

The vet was concerned and called me right away (very early in the morning) and told me that starting immediately I was to give Max frequent small meals. Then she wanted me to fast him for 6 hours and bring him in for another, more controlled, test. Due to a communication error in our household, we accidentally fasted him for 11 hours and as I was loading him up to go in to the vet to have blood drawn, he started acting loopy and weak. I gave him 2tbsp of honey to keep him from seizing and drove at warp speed to the vet. They took their blood sample and then put him on a glucose drip and plunked him down with a bowl of food. 

Max had almost gone into seizure with just 11 hours of no food. And his blood sugar level? 30!!!!!!!!

So, now we have to figure out what the heck is going on. It's either something producing too much insulin (like an insulin-producing tumor of the pancreas) or his body not producing glucose.

In the meantime, Max is in 7th heaven. We used to feed him once an evening... essentially once every 24 hours. Now he gets a snack every 4 hours!! :banana02:


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Still no more seizures. Still giving Max small meals every 4 hours. Yesterday, Max was actually FULL and turned down a meal for the first time in living memory. He ate the kibble about 20 minutes later, but holy smokes - didn't think anyone would ever see the bottom of that previously-bottomless pit!

Insulin results are due back some time today. We will be seeing a specialist next to discuss what diagnostics should be performed.

One vet at the hospital says that he has been in practice 19 years and only seen low-blood-sugar-induced seizures once. A 9-year vet at the hospital has also seen it once previously. The other vets there had never encountered it.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Well, the insulin results came back - they're through the roof! The vet is guessing that Max has an insulinoma: an insulin-producing tumor... probably on the pancreas. Insulinomas are pretty uncommon, she says, but the other things that can result in high insulin and low glucose levels are even more rare. In any case, it's on to the internal specialist next.

Still no more seizures. Yesterday we started adding brown rice to his regular kibble, for added complex carbohydrates. We keep the honey bear handy just in case.

The vet says that since the seizures were induced by very low blood sugar, the rectal diazepam will not be very effective. Honey smeared on the gums would actually do more to bring him up out of seizure - but it might be a little dangerous trying to get it in his mouth if he's actually in the middle of a seizure. I'm going to get some Karo syrup and a squeeze bottle (like for catsup) as a sugar delivery method to have on hand.


----------



## ajaxlucy (Jul 18, 2004)

You might try the little tubes of cake frosting - squeezable sugar. You can smear some on his gums instead of trying to get it right inside his mouth, too.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

That is a good idea. I think there is also a type of frosting in a pressurized can. I'll check into the sugar levels in that type of thing.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Well, so far we have had only one more close call that required instant simple sugars and the corn syrup worked great to bring him back from the brink. No more seizures thus far. We have been feeding him every six hours or so - lots of complex carbohydrates, as few simple sugars as we can. Protein, fats... it boils down to mostly brown rice, canned chicken, a bit of peanut butter, and a bit of his dry dog kibble. 

We had an appointment with an internal medicine specialist today. They did ultrasound and xrays of the thorax. Lungs are fine, liver is fine. They did locate one suspicious looking blob on one arm of the pancreas, as well as a lump on the spleen and on the left kidney. Due to the minute size and the location of the blob on the pancreas, they couldn't get a sample of it to send to the lab, but they did get a tiny sample from the blob on the spleen and on the kidney. We'll get the results on that labwork later this week.

So it's looking more and more like Max has an insulin-producing tumor on his pancreas. Since it is on an "arm" of the pancreas and not the central area of the pancreas, it is a bit more operable. If the blobs on the kidney and spleen come back as benign, then we might go through with surgery on the pancreas.

If the blobs on kidney and spleen come back malignant, then it would appear that the tumor has already spread and the outcome with surgery is less optimistic. 

The vet sent us home with some steroids (prednisone) which will lower his sky-high insulin levels, and raise his super-low glucose levels. That should help stabilize Max until we make a decision regarding surgery.

The vet gave us some statistics regarding dogs with insulin-producing tumors of the pancreas. Looks like, with surgery, the average outcome is another two years of life. However, this is a tumor that most commonly shows up in older large-breed dogs. So is the additional two years of life span (as opposed to, say, five) due to the fact that the surgery isn't 100% successful? Or do the dogs only live an average of two more years because they're already old?

Tough decisions ahead.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

The cytology reports on the samples taken from the spleen and kidney are non-cancerous. The lump on the kidney is some type of fluid-filled cyst and is probably reactive to the off-kilter blood sugar problem. So far nothing has cultured out of the fluid taken from the cyst. The spleen is fine too.

So it's just this operable probably tumor on the pancreas.

However, we just got done reviewing Max's health insurance coverage information and totaling up all the vet bills so far during this journey of diagnostics. And it ain't pretty. Looks like we've already eaten up all the benefits we are elligible for in this situation. So no money left for surgery. And a pricey surgery it is, too.

It's looking like we're going to have to try to just stretch Max's time with us through the use of medication to suppress the insulin production, and carefully timed meals.


----------



## peacebaker (Dec 30, 2005)

Sounds like you've got the seizures mostly under control already with your management--I'd have a hard time doing major surgery on our 11 year-old guy, even if cost wasn't a factor, it just seems hard to put an old guy through it. Sounds like he's had a great run, and you have some extra time to love him up and keep him happy and comfortable, I think that's great  

And if he's anything like my senior, eating every four hours would be absolute heaven! 

Thanks for sharing this--it really helps those of us who are trying to plan ahead for quality of life issues for our pets. I wish we could keep our guys forever, but we can't, and the best we can do is give them a good life and a peaceful landing...

Best of luck to you guys and Max!


----------



## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear of your problems with Max. I had a diabetic cat that I had to give insulin shots to twice a day. Kept it up for 4 years but time and teh disease took its toll and eventually his quality of life was so bad we made the hard decision. It was the right one to make, but it was still hard. 

The only thing I can say is do what you can, but when its time, don't prolong it.


----------



## jennigrey (Jan 27, 2005)

Well, Max's tumor grew more rapidly than we had expected. Meals and steroids weren't keeping his blood sugar high enough for him to have much energy. Last week or so he spent a lot of time just lying there with his head on the floor, only moving his eyes. Oh, he'd get up to go outside and pee, or come when called, but otherwise just conserved his energy.

On Thursday evening of last week (May 22nd) he had another seizure. This time, he didn't bounce back. He ate ravenously after the seizure, but on Friday morning he was listless and couldn't stand. We loaded him up and took him to the vet, expecting that he would need IV glucose. 

The vet found that he had a very high fever and that his right forearm was swollen with cellulitis, with a lump in the armpit (lymph region). 

Not really sure what was going on... fever indicated infection, but where??? Abdominal from the aspirates that were taken from the kidney and pancreas? Was it the body's attempt at fighting the rapidly-growing tumor? Was the fever because of the swollen forearm or was it a separate issue? And what was the lump in the lymph area? Was it from the cellulitis? Why the cellulitis in the forearm? Was the cellulitis an infection from one of the IV catheter sites?

If it hadn't been for the fact that meals and steroids were of diminishing effectiveness in keeping Max's blood sugar up, we would have started antibiotics and continued the fight. But, all things considered, on Friday, May 23rd we had the vet put dear old Max to sleep. He rode home in "his" sidecar (something he'd been too weak to do for a while) and we buried him in the garden.

Our other dog, Roxy, is quite bereft. She hides and howls. She only picks at her food and pushes it around because we nag her about it. I have been dragging her everywhere with me to try to get her interested in things. 

On Monday I bought Roxy her own pair of dog goggles (Max's pair were too big for her). She'd never shown much interest in riding in the sidecar. Partly because if we left Max at home, she fretted and pined till we got home again and if we brought Max along as well, it was pretty crowded in the sidecar and Roxy's paws inevitably got stepped on by the much larger Max. That's only part of it, though. She's not the easygoing relaxed friendly lump that Max was. She's fretful and anxious, she's sensitive and a worrier. She doesn't like being stared at by strangers and she doesn't like them coming up and talking to her.

We went for a ride and Roxy quickly figured out what the goggles are all about. She made one halfhearted attempt at removing them but left off when I told her to. After the first couple of miles wearing her new goggles, she realized that the ride is much nicer with them on. Now she accepts them gracefully. 

Roxy weighs about half what Max did - 45 to his 80. I have a duffel bag with some large chunks of granite that I plop into the sidecar for additional ballast. Max and I put many miles on the sidecar rig together. If after a few more rides Roxy really doesn't take to the sidecar, I won't force her to go with me. Sure would be nice if she did, though.

Dear old Max. What a lunkhead. Never was too bright, but he was a great sidecar buddy. If I was working in the garage or garden and Max turned up absent, I'd often find him laying next to or sitting in the sidecar, looking hopeful. He loved the attention that a goggle-wearing, sidecar-riding dog inevitably garnered. Ate it up like a bacon double cheeseburger. 

Good boy, Max.


----------



## peacebaker (Dec 30, 2005)

Aww, what a great picture! I'm so sorry for your loss, glad you have some great memories with your boy. Maybe a little of his sidecar spirit passed to Roxy


----------

