# Does Roundup 'go bad'?



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

I have a bottle of roundup that has been in my shop for at least 2 years. Will it still do the job or will I just be wasting my time mixing and spraying? I've got the start of sandburs and they HAVE TO DIE and I don't care how. Roundup, diesel, used motor oil, tactical nuclear weapons, I don't care, I will NOT have them around here.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Mix in a good crop oil/surfactant and use the "roundup" glyphosate you have. Is it 41% active ingredient?


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## Linkovich (Apr 17, 2009)

My dad lent me some round-up that was a few years old and he said it probably wouldn't be very effective. 2 weeks later and all that darned quackgrass in my garden has turned brown! Whoot!


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## jmtinmi (Feb 25, 2009)

I've had a huge jug of 'round up' type stuff for several years. And it appears to still be good. Last year I left some of it mixed in a sprayer over the winter (sprayer is only used for it). Then in the spring, when I discovered the partially used mix, I decided to spray with it anyways to see what would happen. The weeds still died, but I did think it took a wee bit longer.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Concentrated glyphosate (such as Roundup) store fine for years. Your one problem is it is salt based, and it tends to settle over long periods of time. The top of the jug will be mostly water, and the bottom will be heavier concentrate.

All you need to do is shake it up a little.

Good to go.

Mixed with your water, it does not store nearly as well. It likes to bind up with impurites in the water, and doesn't like hard water, so if it sets for even a week mixed, it will start losing it's effectiveness. Doesn't mean it won't work, but good chance not as well...

--->Paul


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Well its spraying time tomorrow if the wind don't blow. Thanks for the answers


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## 3ravens (Mar 16, 2006)

watcher said:


> I've got the start of sandburs and they HAVE TO DIE and I don't care how. Roundup, diesel, used motor oil, tactical nuclear weapons, I don't care, I will NOT have them around here.


I agree with all the above except the nukes. The sandburrs will just mutate, and then you'll have mobile sandburrs looking for YOU!!! :run:


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## ronbre (Apr 26, 2009)

good info


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

People call several different plants sandburs so what you have really needs to be identified correctly. Buffalobur, puncture vine, and grassy sandbur are the three plants most often referred to simply as sandbur in the area where I live. 

If this is what you have in your lawn there is no need to kill it all to kill them. http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/grasses/plants/sandbur.htm

This product is labeled for both puncture vine and sandbur (grassy sandbur). 
http://pbigordon.com/pdfs/MSMAHerbicide-SL.pdf Use legally and properly as labeled which means follow the cautionary information correctly.


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## highlands (Jul 18, 2004)

Roundup started out bad. It went worse from there.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

highlands said:


> Roundup started out bad. It went worse from there.


Ah yes, the old street talk of bad meaning good. Yup, it is a very good and relatively safe product and I agree.

Generic glyphosate manufacturers apparently agree as do farmers and city users alike since so many use the product.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

highlands said:


> Roundup started out bad. It went worse from there.


Well what were the odds someone wouldn't have beat me to it with 9 replies!  We use it very sparingly but it does what we need done and since we're cheap we buy the big 10 litre jug and store it for years! About all it won't kill is young stinging nettles new or old.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

highlands said:


> Roundup started out bad. It went worse from there.


In the old days we used, used engine oil to kill weeds along fence lines and around buildings. We used diesel fuel to spot kill thistle and johnson grass. Now seriously, would you rather I go back to using that in place of roundup?


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Windy in Kansas said:


> People call several different plants sandburs so what you have really needs to be identified correctly. Buffalobur, puncture vine, and grassy sandbur are the three plants most often referred to simply as sandbur in the area where I live.


Its the kind that sticks in your bare feet, that's all I need to know for it to die. I'll kill off the entire yard area if I have to but I ain't going to have it growing here. If need be I'll salt the soil!


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## Jeff54321 (Jan 26, 2005)

watcher said:


> In the old days we used, used engine oil to kill weeds along fence lines and around buildings. We used diesel fuel to spot kill thistle and johnson grass. Now seriously, would you rather I go back to using that in place of roundup?


Actually in the really "old" days there was no engine oil or diesel and natural methods were used to control unwanted plants.

If the only options are petroleum product or Monsanto poison, I would let the weeds grow. These toxic practices will have the greatest effect on your health first and then that of your neighbors. Take a look at the state of human health where chemical farming predominates and compare that to the health in the same area 100 years ago. If you look objectively without clouding the issue, you are likely to see a tremendous difference.


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## sammyd (Mar 11, 2007)

Yeah that increased lifespan is a sure indicator of badness.


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## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Jeff54321 said:


> Actually in the really "old" days there was no engine oil or diesel and natural methods were used to control unwanted plants.
> 
> If the only options are petroleum product or Monsanto poison, I would let the weeds grow. These toxic practices will have the greatest effect on your health first and then that of your neighbors. Take a look at the state of human health where chemical farming predominates and compare that to the health in the same area 100 years ago. If you look objectively without clouding the issue, you are likely to see a tremendous difference.


I do. I see that we are living longer and keeping very sick children alive today who would have died back then. Those kids who did live used to die in their 40s from TB, cholera, the flu and even an infected splinter. Because people are living longer they now have the chance to die from cancer and heart disease. 

This is harsh but its life. We are saving so many children who would have died 100 years ago. Now these people can pass their bad genes along to their children. Studies are showing many diseases have a genetic link this means we now have more and more people with these genes. Logic tells us that the more people with bad genes means more people getting diseases.

And we have stopped doing hard physical labor and eating so much we get fat. Being out of shape and fat means you are going to have tons of health problems.

Now I'm not saying chemicals have no effect on us but I look at the benefits gained from them I think we are better off now than in the "good old days".

As for the sandburs. They are not going to grow here. The dangers of using chemicals are way out weighed by the problems they cause.


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## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Roundup IS 'bad'. Just sayin'.
:lonergr:


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## Linkovich (Apr 17, 2009)

I totally don't agree with roundup, but I moved into a rental property and the garden plot had become completely overtaken with quackgrass, so roundup was pretty much my only option if I wanted a garden this year! It makes me so happy to walk by and see it getting browner and browner!


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Roundup doesn't break down in the jug. It can form some crystal-like pieces that can plug a sprayer, but it isn't often a problem.

Roundup does break down when in contact with soil. It becomes CO2.

In the old days, before Roundup, used engine oil, etc, we hand pulled the weeds for the King and his Empire. Ahhh, the good old days......

But, for those of you not decended from the EU areas, weeds were not a problem. Just paddle your birch bark to the berry patch or spear a monkey. Either way, expect a lifespan of 35years, tops.

For just a moment, folks, lets get real. Some chemicals are harmful. There's a guy right here on HT that says 100,000 people die from FDA approved drugs. So, I guess chemicals are dangerous. Pesticides tend to be far more toxic than herbicides. Some products take a long time to break down. Roundup breaks down quickly.

But if the Anti-Chemicals group were to get their way, we'd have a heap of troubles. Without chemicals, the cost of production would sky-rocket. Hungry city dwellers would desend upon your farms like locust, a sight far worse than anything Brigam Young ever imagined.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

Just to be clear---herbicides are classified as pesticides. All part of the great umbrella which includes herbicides, insecticides, fungicides, rodenticides, and ??


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm sure he meant insecticides are more toxic to humans than herbicides. I noticed that too.

Heck, I've mistyped those same words on another ssite. 

--->Paul


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## rscheiderer (Dec 30, 2009)

Please don't think I'm taking sides in this RoundUp debate...I just have a question (yes, a real question, not a snide remark masked as a question) about the safety of using it. Where do you get the information that it's safe? Does the info come from Monsanto or independent studies?


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## dezingg (Feb 25, 2010)

In the study published in the 15 March 1999 Journal of American Cancer Society, the researchers also maintain that exposure to glyphosate 'yielded increased risks for NHL. (non-Hodgkin's lymphoma)
http://www.organicconsumers.org/monsanto/glyphocancer.cfm

My point is that you're dealing with a form of poison when you are spraying. Take precautions. Don't breathe the spray. Don't get it on your skin. Don't be fooled by the 'safer than salt' arguments. Treat the stuff like poison when you're using it.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

rscheiderer said:


> Please don't think I'm taking sides in this RoundUp debate...I just have a question (yes, a real question, not a snide remark masked as a question) about the safety of using it. Where do you get the information that it's safe? Does the info come from Monsanto or independent studies?


OSHA requires Material Safety Data Sheets known as MSDS. The Interactive Learning Paradigms Incorporated site provides some FAQs on MSDSs. Information under section #1 explains the various safety aspects from flash point to toxicity. http://www.ilpi.com/msds/faq/parta.html

From what I can gather it is up to each company to supply the information MSDSs.
I found this statement online: "In an effort to improve the completeness, accuracy, and consistency of MSDSs, the Chemical Manufacturers Association (CMA) has developed a voluntary standard for their preparation. The standard was published in 1993 as ANSI Z400.1-1993, "American National Standard for Hazardous Industrial Chemicals -- Material Safety Data Sheets -- Preparation." 12 The Standard is 179 pages long. It establishes an MSDS format containing sixteen sections."

I suppose, but don't know, that it would be up to OSHA to test any sheet information that is challenged for accuracy. 

One very important aspect of any product safety is following ALL safety information such as proper application when dealing with chemicals. For chemicals it is illegal to use them other than labeled. It is important to note that chemicals may not be labeled for use in all states.


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## Windy in Kansas (Jun 16, 2002)

As a safety question follow up this PDF may answer some questions. 

npic.orst.edu/factsheets/glyphogen.pdf

The NPTN or National Pesticide Telecommunications Network is sponsored cooperatively by Oregon State University and the EPA. 

There will always be those that believe any exposure to chemicals outweighs any benefits and that is certainly their right. There are also those that will always believe the safety of products of any kind are understated and in many instances have proven that they are correct with their assumptions. 

Some of us consider glyphosate to be very safe while others consider it anything but safe. We each have to decide for ourselves after we have reviewed available information. To each their own thoughts.


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## RedneckPete (Aug 23, 2004)

We have a province (think state) wide ban on &#8220;cosmetic pesticide use.&#8221; As a result our cities are overtaken by dandelions, every crack in the sidewalk is filled with weeds, and the cracks between the asphalt and curbs have a row of 6&#8221; high grass growing in them.
The municipalities are using tiger torches (burning non renewable propane) or hot water pressure washers (burning non renewable diesel) to take care of this problem. The pavement is being damaged, and the lifespan of the roads (made of non renewable asphalt paving) is undoubtedly being reduced. This is happening while the surrounding countryside has thousands of gallons of roundup sprayed on it in order to grow no-till crops, because no-till saves the topsoil and is better for the environment.
We really need to give our heads a shake. It&#8217;s time to worship the Creator rather than the creation. 

Spray your roundup wherever you please. No it doesn&#8217;t go bad. It came good from the factory and will stay that way for a very long time.

Pete


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## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

I just went around my place and sprayed not round up but stuff just like it, all round the clothes line polls, road culvert, around the mail box post, things like that now I don't have to use the weed eater as much. YEAH. Good stuff.


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## dezingg (Feb 25, 2010)

Several years ago I believe that I read a notice that one state's department of transportation was concerned about possible links between cancer and Roundup. It may have been Minnesota, but I forgot.

I searched the web to see if I could find anything definitive about risks of being exposed to Roundup. Most often I found myself reading about glyphosate. But I specifically wanted to know about Roundup as a product, not just its primary active ingredient. 

A few quotes from the link provided by Windy_in_Kansas - http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/glyphogen.pdf

"Doctors reviewed cases of accidental and intentional exposures to glyphosate products. Exposures to the skin did not
result in symptoms. Humans who drank glyphosate products experienced digestive tract irritation, low blood pressure,
and respiratory dysfunction. Symptoms from accidentally drinking glyphosate disappeared within 24 hours. Some people
who intentionally drank glyphosate products died (10)."

"Researchers proposed that the symptoms and fatalities resulting from drinking glyphosate products may be caused by an
ingredient other than glyphosate in the products (11)."

The above statements seem to suggest that glyphosate is not the most dangerous ingredient in the package. 

I found one website that lists known inert ingredients of pesticides. http://www.pesticide.org/FOIA/glyphosate.html

Roundup U1traDry Herbicide
EPA Registration No. 524-504 
Inert ingredients; 
Polyethoxylated tallowamine CAS #61791-26-2,
Polyethylene glycol CAS #25322-68-3,
Water CAS #7732-18-5,
Sodium sulfite CAS #7757-83-7,
[claimed confidential],
[claimed confidential],
[claimed confidential] 

Three of the ingredients found were claimed to be confidential, so the list of ingredients is not complete.

The pesticide.org website may be useful for anyone curious about other pesticides too.

I'm not certain what to make of the glyphogen.pdf page. It contains quite a bit of information, but I was hoping the statements would be more definitive.

As a personal note. I do have and use Roundup on poison oak plants, but not as a general herbicide on weeds. I'm also not a farmer, if I was I might use Roundup more.

Each year as I remove more brush on the property I have more weeds. I keep saying that I wish I'd put up enough fences to get something to eat the weeds!


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

I'd like to mention weed killers have been used since the late 1950's, and pretty regularly & heavily since the mid 1960s. Many of these tend to last in nature for months to years. Some are quite toxic to mammals, tho not many.

Glyphosate (such as Roundup) comes in on the low, low side of most all of these sorts of tests. It binds up with clay & does not let go until it breaks down, so it doesn't interact with the environment after it is sprayed. It is far less toxic than gasoline, which I assume we handle weekly without gloves, by the gallon....

The 'extra' ingredients in glyphosate are different types of soap. They allow the spray to penetrate waxy leaves, and be more effective. These soaps are sometimes much more 'toxic' (because it lasts longer) to the environment than the actual weed killer itself is. But - the 'soap' used is related to hair shampoo. That doesn't mean it's as _safe_ to us as hair shampoo. But, it should again give one pause to consider....

We need to pick our battles.

Do you really want to get rid of Roundup, and go back to the old chemicals??? How is that any sort of improvement?

Or would you ban all weed killers? Then we can't notill any more, which means much more dirt & dust, much more wind & water erosion, much more diesel fuel being used. Is that a good idea?

And weed killers aren't all that dangerous - compared to insecticides. Since they work on insects, not plants, they are closer to harming us mammals. So if you want to ban weed killers for 'safety', then you better ban all the insecticides too!

But - what about the ants, roaches, termites, etc. home owners have to deal with? Those of us in agriculture also have a lot of special bugs we deal with. We will see more wasted food without those sprays, higher priced food.

I'm just supposing... What is it we really want? Which way is better?

There is a lot to consider. We can't just stop using these things with no other effects to our food supply & land & water.

--->Paul


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

rambler said:


> I'd like to mention weed killers have been used since the late 1950's, and pretty regularly & heavily since the mid 1960s. Many of these tend to last in nature for months to years. Some are quite toxic to mammals, tho not many.
> 
> Glyphosate (such as Roundup) comes in on the low, low side of most all of these sorts of tests. It binds up with clay & does not let go until it breaks down, so it doesn't interact with the environment after it is sprayed. It is far less toxic than gasoline, which I assume we handle weekly without gloves, by the gallon....
> 
> ...


:rock: What he said! I can't say it any better.


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