# Ethics question



## pcdreams (Sep 13, 2003)

As some of you know I just started a new job (help desk).. I can't say what company's products we support but...

Anyway I have some questions as to some of the practices they are expecting us to implement.

First of all this was Suppose to be a Support only position (ie no selling) now they are telling us we're expected to sale accessories/ extended warrenties, etc.

Besides being lied to about the sales portion.. here are my other issues.

Selling "extended warranties"

We're suppose to try to sale extended warrenties, but the way its set up, I think is unethical.

Here is an example. Someone buys a new computer (1 year warranty) and calls in for service. Say they are 3 days from the end of their warranty period, we are suppose to try to sell them an extended warrenty for a year.. Thing is the extended warranty starts from date of purchase.. Thus they would only get 3 days on the extended warranty. If you sell them a 2 year extended warranty then it would actually be for 1 year and 3 days. As we are forbidden to mention this fact, this seems unethical.

Second.. If someone calls in with an out of warranty product, and the fix is going to cost more than a new system.. we are not allowed to offer this option. In my eyes this rides the line on unethical.. True the person should be able to go "hey I'd be better off buying new" but at the same time I don't feel it's right to rip off a grandma (or anyone else) just because they don't stay current with computer sales.

So what does one do to stay both ethical and employed in this situation? Its a decent job, good pay, bennies, but I don't think I can live with myself if I have to make that money dishonestly.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

Get the statements that your suppose to lie to the customers in writing. Maybe its not company policy but your managers policy. Since your questioning the ethics of it I think you already know the asnwer


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## Stann (Jan 2, 2005)

So, now you know what constitutes the ideal person for that position, a good PC tech and a dishonest person. If you fit that description, you'll do fine. 

If you're a good PC tech and not dishonest, you partially fit the description and therefore they'll probably will keep you until they wish to get rid of you. 

If you're a dishonest person (and also a "suck up") and not a good tech, you partially fit the description and therefore they'll probably will keep you until they wish to get rid of you.

I think you get the picture. Remember, sales is not all bad (just in case the word "sales" invokes negative impressions). The "best" sale, for an honest person, is finding what you can get the customer to make him happy.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

If not desperate for job, it would be bye-bye if it were me. If desperate, then I would do the job the honest way and go look for new job immediately expecting that they would fire me soon afterwards. Any company lieing to you about your duties on new job isnt going to have any problem firing you on slightest whim. They dont care about their customers then they arent going to care about their employees.

If it were the bottom of a severe economic downturn and there were no other jobs and it involved making my family live under a bridge if I lost the job then ?????


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## pcdreams (Sep 13, 2003)

Well.. I'm a good tech and an honest person... Guess I'll look for better employment on my time off.

I agree with what you are saying about sales. I'm just a bit miffed that I (as well as the other 100+ employees) were lied to about the type of position it was.

The only reason I'm going to go ahead and hang in there is because this is the first position in this field that I've been able to find in this area (been looking for quite some time).


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

What you've written sounds very much like fraud. If you sold a "one year extended warranty" on a new computer which already had a one year warranty, and by your definition of the terms of the warranty, its not an "extended" warranty at all. Are you sure you're understanding the warranty policy correctly?



> Here is an example. Someone buys a new computer (1 year warranty) and calls in for service. Say they are 3 days from the end of their warranty period, we are suppose to try to sell them an extended warrenty for a year.. Thing is the extended warranty starts from date of purchase.. Thus they would only get 3 days on the extended warranty. If you sell them a 2 year extended warranty then it would actually be for 1 year and 3 days. As we are forbidden to mention this fact, this seems unethical.


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## WindowOrMirror (Jan 10, 2005)

I would be very very certain of my facts and get everything in writing before doing anything drastic. Then I would search for a job and THEN I would sit down with my manager and discuss my concerns with the policy. Then I would discuss it with the director, the VP and as far up the chain as it took to make the properly sized "stink".

If the issues were not resolved by this, I would go to my new job. I'd then likely take the writing I had, and give that to a motivated claims attorney... or at least write it all up on companynamesucks.com

But, that's just me

R


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## donsgal (May 2, 2005)

pcdreams said:


> As some of you know I just started a new job (help desk).. I can't say what company's products we support but...
> 
> Anyway I have some questions as to some of the practices they are expecting us to implement.
> 
> ...


I was quite surprised to learn that extended warranties "always" run from date of sale *the ORIGINAL SALE* not the sale of the warranty. I found this out when I was talking to the salesman where we purchased our freezer. SO, it is not a policy that is limited to your product alone. IN fact, IIRC I was talking to a car dealership about this very thing a while back, and yes, even an extended warranty for an car operates the same way.

Therefore, I would think that *most* people would know this factoid. However, I was pretty darn old when I found this out, so unless you have had something with an extended warranty, you might not know. 

As for the other matter. I would find out if it would be ok for you to ask if they have looked at the new models rather than wanting to get the old one fixed. You are NOT making the statement that it is actually cheaper, but you are gently steering them toward buying something which is more up to date and that they can get "more for their money" than their existing machine. I would think that you would make everybody happy by trying to sell a new product rather than fix an old one. I mean, isn't that what our throw-away society is all about? 

I'd check with management to see if there isn't some script you can adopt that will give you this option.

Actually, in both of these cases I would say that this policy is pretty much "standard operating procedure" for most large corporations. Unethical or not, it is the way that business is conducted now days. The concept of honor and truthfulness in big business is pretty much passe. You are going to find that not working there in the name of ethics is going to be kind of like shooting yourself in the foot. But if your conscience is that strong, do what you must to be happy.

donsgal


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## pcdreams (Sep 13, 2003)

OntarioMan said:


> What you've written sounds very much like fraud. If you sold a "one year extended warranty" on a new computer which already had a one year warranty, and by your definition of the terms of the warranty, its not an "extended" warranty at all. Are you sure you're understanding the warranty policy correctly?


Of this fact I am VERY certain. Several of us ran this question into the ground (which made mgmt fidget and try to move on to other topics)..


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## pcdreams (Sep 13, 2003)

donsgal said:


> Actually, in both of these cases I would say that this policy is pretty much "standard operating procedure" for most large corporations. Unethical or not, it is the way that business is conducted now days. The concept of honor and truthfulness in big business is pretty much passe.
> donsgal


I wasn't aware (and don't think most folks are) that this is how extended warranties work. I always though that extended warranty was just that. If I had a warranty for 1 year and bought a 2 year extended warranty for (what I would assume was a 2 years) that, that would carry 2 years beyond the end of the original warranty..

They say they want their customers to be happy.. but you can't bend them over and have them happy. I Just don't understand business mentality.


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## diamondtim (Jun 10, 2005)

pcdreams,

I would advise you to play by their rules, and _*look hard*_ for a new job. 

Don't raise any stink, advise customers other than directed (your conversations are most likely recorded) :nono: or even ask troubling questions in a meeting (don't ask how I know this) :shrug: . Be a exceptional little worker bee and keep quiet (your fellow employees may rat you out)  .

Kind of like an employment SSS  .

Good Luck on finding a new job! :angel:


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## lharvey (Jul 1, 2003)

I worked the 'help' desk for a MAJOR corporation for about 8 months.

It was pure technical support and it was a really good job. Sure it had it's moments but over all it was a fun and rewarding job.

Then.... After about 6 months, we had a big meeting and the rules changed. The job shifted, not officially but understood, towards more SELLING UP, but not officially.

The job, was not what I was hired for. I didn't want a sales job. I did not like selling something to someone they didn't need or understand. The only upside was there was no cold calling involved.

As time went by, there was more pressure to sell. The Quality Control people ( the ones who monitored your calls from time to time ) would score you lower for not doing the sell thing.

I hated it. It was wrong. People were calling for help not a sales pitch.

I Quit.

Lee


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

Although I realize that jobs are often not easy to come by - and that if you don't do it, someone else certainly will - yada yada yada. I suppose the bottom line is that at the end of the day, you have to live with yourself and the decisions you make - and sometimes our options are not what we'd like, but actually the "lesser of two evils". 

You're certainly in a tough spot - best of luck in whatever path you choose. 



pcdreams said:


> I wasn't aware (and don't think most folks are) that this is how extended warranties work. I always though that extended warranty was just that. If I had a warranty for 1 year and bought a 2 year extended warranty for (what I would assume was a 2 years) that, that would carry 2 years beyond the end of the original warranty..
> 
> They say they want their customers to be happy.. but you can't bend them over and have them happy. I Just don't understand business mentality.


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Although I understand your concerns, since I'm also an ethical person and believe a person's creditibility depends on their ethics, I don't see any conflict; rather just business proceedure differences.

As for the warranty issue, I don't think it is unethical issue since that is how all extended warranties work. Your not presenting a product that is dishonest nor different from it's intended use; rather your selling a product as the product is intended. It is no different than selling insurance of any type. It is really up to the consumer to educate himself on the pluses and minus of any insurance policy/contract/warranty.

With regards to the repair vs. new product, there again, it's really not your responsibility to educate the consumer. To some degree, we consumers are responsible for educating ourselves and compare products before we make any major financial determinations.

It isn't that your selling something they don't need. They need their computer fixed. If they can buy one cheaper, it's really up to them to think through whether they should buy a new computer or have that one fixed. No different than if you needed your washer fixed. If your presented with an estimate of what the repair bill will be, it's up to you to determine if it is better to fix it, or replace it.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I don't really see the ethical dilemma here. All companies expect you to sell their products any time you have interaction with the customer.

Don't lie to the customer and tell them they need a new computer when their computer can be fixed. Give them the information (it costs X to buy new and Y to fix this one) and let them make the decision. Also when selling additional appliances and such, don't try to force them. If it's a useful item it will sell itself and just identifying it to the customer may be enough to make the sell. There's lots of useful stuff I might buy if I simply knew it was for sale. However, nothing is going to make me buy something I don't need. 

This isn't an ethical dilemma and you shouldn't wrap it in that flag. It's a personal dilemma about how you feel you were misled about your job description. It's not unethical to sell products. It's unethical to trick customers into buying stuff they don't need. 

As for how the extended warranty works, your company needs to sort that out. I'd point out to my manager that I'm not going to lie to the customer either through a deliberate falsehood or an act of omission. I'll point out the usefulness of the extended warranty and give the dates on which it both takes effect and expires. That said, prepare to get fired. I've made a number of ethical stands in my career and each and every one of them has resulted in near-to-immediate unemployment. There's nothing you can do about it, but I've been blessed by God in that each and every one of those terminations resulted in a better job where I earned more money, endured less stress, AND got to be true to my own values ... and none of them cost me my car, my home, or my children's health. We just knuckled down, started looking for a new job, and ate a lot of beans and rice for a few weeks.


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## bill not in oh (Jul 27, 2004)

Perhaps there are services and benefits to the customer in the 'extended' warranty that don't exist in the basic warranty, in which case I think the term 'expanded' warranty would be a better description. For instance Dell has 4 or 5 different warranty 'packages' that do this exact thing. I don't know how they phrase these offers, but it seems to me that 'extended warranty' is not it.


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## OntarioMan (Feb 11, 2007)

To be asked to sell (or attempt to sell) someone a "1 year extended warranty" which will expire in only a few days - and being told *not to mention that fact* - is in my opinion, deceptive and unethical.

_Customer _ : "this one-year extended warranty which you are proposing, when would it expire?"

_Service Tech_ : "in three days"

_Customer_ : "why would you attempt to sell me a one-year extended warranty which you knew would expire in only three days?"

If you were the service tech., how would you answer the above question in accordance with your ethics? 

Everyone is an ethical person - some just live by a different set of ethics.



Karen said:


> Although I understand your concerns, since I'm also an ethical person and believe a person's creditibility depends on their ethics, I don't see any conflict; rather just business proceedure differences.
> 
> As for the warranty issue, I don't think it is unethical issue since that is how all extended warranties work. Your not presenting a product that is dishonest nor different from it's intended use; rather your selling a product as the product is intended. It is no different than selling insurance of any type. It is really up to the consumer to educate himself on the pluses and minus of any insurance policy/contract/warranty.
> 
> ...


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## gccrook (Nov 21, 2003)

Of all the extended warranties I have purchased or been offered, none have started on the date of purchase of the original item. They have always started at the end of the original manufacturers warranty. This is why they are called "extended" warranties. I have never had a company offer me an extended warranty that started on the date of original purchase.


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## Stann (Jan 2, 2005)

pcdreams said:


> ...
> Someone buys a new computer (1 year warranty) and calls in for service. Say they are 3 days from the end of their warranty period, we are suppose to try to sell them an extended warrenty for a year.. Thing is the extended warranty starts from date of purchase.. Thus they would only get 3 days on the extended warranty. If you sell them a 2 year extended warranty then it would actually be for 1 year and 3 days. *As we are forbidden to mention this fact, this seems unethical.*
> Second.. If someone calls in with an out of warranty product, and the fix is going to cost more than a new system.. *we are not allowed to offer this option. * ...


 (bolding added by me)

JMO, but since it is stated to be forbidden to mention the bolded situations, this is unambiguously dishonest and unethical.

The word "dishonest" and the phrase "intentially misleading" are synonymous and seems to be what your management requires of you. Most customers won't appreciate that approach. If the customer determines that he has been cheated by being mislead then he won't be a happy customer. 

If I were to go to a reputable computer repair firm I'd expect to get a full and expert assessment at a fair price from that firm. That means that there will be no intentional omissions and no unnecessary additions. Maybe that's just me, but anything else would be crooked.


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## jefferson (Nov 11, 2004)

To All you people out there in the employment jungle. ALWAYS keep your eyes open and your ear to the ground........Your employer does.


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