# Carnation Powdered Milk question



## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

I bought a large box of Nestle's Carnation Powdered milk last week without thinking to check first. It dawned on me the other day that there were problems surrounding melanine in some milk products from China. Now I'm wondering if the powdered milk is safe to use. 

I did a search here but came up empty. An internet search produced more questions than answers. The info was vague at best. Yes, Nestle's has plants in China where they produce the powdered milk. Yes, some folks have already called the 800 number at Nestle's only to receive a convoluted response..."the product is not affected but why don't you give us the lot # just in case". The response doesn't instill confidence.

Does anyone have or know of some solid information / test results for this product? I haven't opened it yet (part of preps) so I may return it if the answer isn't clear. Any recommendations for powdered milk that has tested negative for melanine or is made outside of China?

Thanks everyone.


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## wvstuck (Sep 19, 2008)

And yet there are people who think importing food is still the right thing to do, to help the "Global Economy"

I wish I had an answer, but like everyone with a box or can of powdered milk on the shelf, you just know that something is wrong, and you find yourself living in a country that doesn't know the answer... Where is the FDA when you need them?

Side note: Anyone else looking for more and bigger government still?


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

wvstuck said:


> Side note: Anyone else looking for more and bigger government still?


More efficient yes, more in touch with the common man (or woman) absolutely, more and bigger...no. What there is doesn't work as it is. 

Yeah, I have the bad feeling in my stomach about the product. While I don't support SOP testing, in this case, with a known issue of severe consequence, the FDA should have mandated testing to ensure the product isn't tainted. I can tell you, working in a regulated medical industry, the efforts we make to ensure the products we produce are safe. Some of these efforts are mandated by the FDA, others are voluntary, stemming from the sense of responsibility we take for the products we manufacture. Apparently, imports are exempt from the same standards or sense of responsibility. Too many months have passed. I personally would like to see products labelled with country of origin. At least then, it is my choice of what I buy from where.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

Hmm.

http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2008/09/milk_from_china_purposely_lace.html


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

Interesting read, Ladycat. Doesn't help me feel good about what we eat though.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

I don't know who the heck this is, or if the information is accurate, but it's awfully interesting:

http://health.tesstermulo.com/?p=537 (Those are Phillipine test results. it may not apply here).


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

ladycat said:


> Hmm.
> 
> http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2008/09/milk_from_china_purposely_lace.html


I think I have some Walmart "Best Value" milk in my pantry....I have an email sent to Food Lion, asking about their store brand powdered milk too. I'll be very upset to throw out the milk powder I have in stock, but it's not worth poisoning my family. I'll post here if I hear back from them.

I don't even want to think about any other products I have (condensed milk, cake mixes, chocolate, cocoa powder) that might be tainted.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

AHA!

...Nestle has assured consumers that the contamination is confined to China, even though _products produced in that facility are distributed world-wide..._<SNIP>The products in question were formerly produced in Nestle's Fulton, NY, facility

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1055058/poison_alert_nestles_milk_products.html?cat=3

I found it very telling that I COULD NOT FIND A DISCLAIMER on the Carnation website, even though I found *other* food manufacturers websites that had statements promising they do NOT source milk products from China.


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

Mom Of Four please let us know of your findings as I have WalMart dry milk in my pantry also.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

Mom_of_Four said:


> I don't even want to think about any other products I have (condensed milk, cake mixes, chocolate, cocoa powder) that might be tainted.


I'm more glad than ever that I buy organic, and cook from scratch.

I made a chocolate cake last night from USA-grown certified organic ingredients (and my own eggs). It didn't cost any more to make than buying a chemical-laden cake mix would have cost, and I know there isn't any melamine in it.


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## NickieL (Jun 15, 2007)

I have aldi brand dry milk......I wonder if that's affected?


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

Ok, I've been up to my neck searching all morning, and here's a summary of what I have found out:

In 2004, Nestle moved it's Carnation plant from Fulton, NY to Quingdao, China.

In China, they have been sourcing their milk from Chinese dairies to produce Carnation Powdered milk, Good Start Infant Formula, and other dairy products.

They have been shipping these products back to the USA and around the rest of the world.

A large percentage of the sickened infants and children in China were drinking Carnation Powdered Milk and Good Start Infant Formula. 4 of the infants who died had been receiving the Good Start Infant Formula.

Much of the candy that was found to contain melamine was manufactured with dairy products purchased from the Carnation plant in Quingdao, China (!)

Consumer calls and emails to the Nestle company in the USA result in runaround answers.

And finally this:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-10/28/content_7151040.htm

_Some Nestle milk powder in Hong Kong reportedly contained melamine at the end of September, but Hong Kong's food and environment department later denied the reports and claimed that the involved Nestle milk powder products contained no melamine._

Which is odd because so many of the infants and children sickened from Melamine had been drinking *Nestle* dairy products.


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## vdeal (Aug 5, 2008)

So, does anyone know where Nestle Nido powdered milk is made?


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

Thank you Ladycat. My search turned up similiar inconsistencies. I'm not certain if the product I have contains melamine or not but one thing is for sure...if Nestle's can't provide a straight answer, then back it goes to the store. I won't risk the health of my family.

Here's another:

"In Taiwan, Health Minister Yeh Ching-chuan said testing showed small amounts of melamine in milk powder that European food giant Nestle produced in northeastern China." 10-3-08

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-10-02-nestle-asia-tainted_N.htm


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

So, it sounds like we are still SOL as far as knowing the truth about milk.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

Many of these multi-national corporations have more than one plant producing similar products. This is why one plant in China can be producing melamine contaminated products but that same company's products in the U.S. won't have any because they were made in a plant not in China.

What we're dealing with here is a lack of information about specific products. The only way to get that information is to contact each individual company and ASK. Have lot numbers ready if necessary, but ASK.

.....Alan.


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## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

Aldi around here hasn't even been able to stock powdered milk...one associate told me she orders it each week but never comes in.Always save says distributed by co. in KC, Kansas,hmmm. 

The SACO I get from Amazon says made in the USA. As does the storage cans purchased from Emergency Essentials. Nestle has had a long history of fiddling with food....starting with the scandal of giving free formula to 3rd world countries and getting women to bottle feed their infants until they can no long breast feed leading to infant malnutrition from mothers cutting the formula they can buy way too much for the proper amt of calories for growing infants. Hopefullly the new law requiring labeling of county of origion will help us all. DEE


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

A.T. Hagan said:


> What we're dealing with here is a lack of information about specific products. The only way to get that information is to contact each individual company and ASK. Have lot numbers ready if necessary, but ASK.
> 
> .....Alan.


True statement Alan. Perhaps I shouldn't believe everything I read. Unfortunately, the consensus from those who have contacted Nestleâs has not been warm & fuzzy. Rather, all have felt as if theyâve gotten to see the glossies but not whatâs under the hood. Iâll call Nestleâs later today if I have the chance or by early next week at the latest, then post what I learn. Better to get the information first hand than to become part of the panic. Thanks for the reminder...


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

A.T. Hagan said:


> Many of these multi-national corporations have more than one plant producing similar products. This is why one plant in China can be producing melamine contaminated products but that same company's products in the U.S. won't have any because they were made in a plant not in China.
> 
> What we're dealing with here is a lack of information about specific products. The only way to get that information is to contact each individual company and ASK. Have lot numbers ready if necessary, but ASK.
> 
> .....Alan.


A few points to consider:

Walmart and the Dollar stores buy a great many of their American name-branded foods and other products from the American-owned factories in China instead of the factories owned by the same companies in Mexico and the US.

A very large percentage of store-branded foods are from China.

Calls and emails to companies asking about Chinese-sourced ingredients and getting runaround answers are very telling. 

Like what happened to me when I tried to find out about Wrigley's gum. I got a runaround answer and later found out it's made in China (and I think also in Mexico with Chinese ingredients). So to appease my mother's chewing gum obsession, I tracked down an affordable "safe" gum that I can order online. We already ordered a case of it and she likes it very much. It's made in Canada with real chickle and no artificial ingredients.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

*Calls and emails to companies asking about Chinese-sourced ingredients and getting runaround answers are very telling. *

This is true. If they won't give you a clear, honest answer then assume the worst and buy another product.

.....Alan.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

A.T. Hagan said:


> This is true. If they won't give you a clear, honest answer then assume the worst and buy another product.


Yep. That's why I found another brand of gum to buy.

It's also why I found another brand of frozen pizza to buy.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

My last baby drank Good Start formula once I stopped nursing him (2004). How long does it take for melamine to affect a human?


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2008)

It would have made itself apparent before now had it been present in any significant quantities.

.....Alan.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

I have to wonder about these sources, because of one very important fact -- melamine is not something that you can just mix in to the milk, it must first be dissolved in another chemical, formaldehyde being the main choice, then mixed in with the milk, then the milk needs to be powered.

Small farmers, here and there, simply don't have the laboratory resources available to them so they could do this, and honestly, I cannot imagine Nestle setting up a lab for this, no matter what.

As for it being the suppliers, _the farmers_ doing this, no, this is a specialized, technical process. It's not like adding carrot juice to milk before making cheese, to be sure the cheese is orange, or adding food coloring to eggs so the kids can have green eggs and ham, which any of us can do.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

ladycat... what's the name of the gum you've found? I've been searching online for a source of my two favorite gums, with no luck... I've only been able to 'pick' the favorites out of mixed bags I get at a local grocer...


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

texican said:


> ladycat... what's the name of the gum you've found? I've been searching online for a source of my two favorite gums, with no luck... I've only been able to 'pick' the favorites out of mixed bags I get at a local grocer...


It's called Glee Gum and the 2 best places to order it I found were amazon.com and OutletNutrition.com

There may be other better places but I quit looking after the first dozen or so I found by searching.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

great...i stock canned milk of various brands including carnation. i guess i should beware of that as well. the sad part is that there are hardly any local dairies left around here. i would buy totally local if they would ease up on the little farms a bit.


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

Just an FYIâ¦I sent an e-mail to Nestleâs with questions regarding melamine in relation to their products. I thought it would be better to post a written response than to chance misrepresenting what was said in a phone conversation. Their Customer Service doesnât work over the weekend so Iâm guessing there wonât be a response until mid week.


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## Pink_Carnation (Apr 21, 2006)

Narshalla said:


> I have to wonder about these sources, because of one very important fact -- melamine is not something that you can just mix in to the milk, it must first be dissolved in another chemical, formaldehyde being the main choice, then mixed in with the milk, then the milk needs to be powered.
> 
> Small farmers, here and there, simply don't have the laboratory resources available to them so they could do this, and honestly, I cannot imagine Nestle setting up a lab for this, no matter what.
> 
> As for it being the suppliers, _the farmers_ doing this, no, this is a specialized, technical process. It's not like adding carrot juice to milk before making cheese, to be sure the cheese is orange, or adding food coloring to eggs so the kids can have green eggs and ham, which any of us can do.


The melamine may have gotten into the milk the same way it did the eggs that were recalled....contaminated feed.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

Pink_Carnation said:


> The melamine may have gotten into the milk the same way it did the eggs that were recalled....contaminated feed.


You are right about that (I wish you weren't!)

But as it stands, if you can't by local, or at least from the US, I wouldn't buy at all. Unfortunately, though, we don't know if any of that feed got into the US, like the dog and cat food.


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## Horns Bach (Mar 11, 2008)

Narshalla said:


> You are right about that (I wish you weren't!)
> 
> But as it stands, if you can't by local, or at least from the US, I wouldn't buy at all. Unfortunately, though, we don't know if any of that feed got into the US, like the dog and cat food.


Hi,
Novartis makes an insecticide called "cyromazine" and the metabolite of cyromazine is melamine -when the insecticide comes in contact with urea in an animal's (or humans) body it chemically transforms into melamine. You all should know this insecticide is used on cattle feed lots, dairy operations, poultry operations, etc. for controlling flys. It is put directly into the animal feed. It is used in the United States. 

Syngenta makes a crop insecticide cryromazine, to control certain larvae harmful to their (genetically engineered?) crops. It is used in the United States. It is used in tomatoes, sweet corn, onions, leafy green veggies, potatoes, etc. Cyromazine targets the nervous system of the pest insects. 

A concerned citizen approached the EPA about the dangers of cyromazine, because it showed kidney problems/kidney stones and crystallization in the kidneys in laboratory animals:
"I suggest that although short-term studies have been carried out on cyromazine, the long-term implications have not been addressed in this petition. Allowing increased levels of cyromazine in foods loved by children, e.g., milk, mangoes and sweet corn without long-term studies of the effects of this toxin is tantamount to negligence."

The EPA responded (back in 1999/2000):
"Based on the risk assessments discussed in the proposed rule and the findings made therein, the Agency concludes that there is a reasonable certainty that no harm will result to the U.S. population and to infants and children from aggregate exposure to residues of cyromazine. Therefore,
tolerances are established..."

So we have melamine in our food supply here in the United States, via the insecticide cyromazine. Let's not just put all the blame on China and let's investigate the EPA and the FDA, and Novartis and Syngenta, because our own children here in the U.S. are beginning to develop kidney stones at an alarming rate. 

DDT was also an insecticide.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

From the info I've been reading lately, I'd guess that the melamine is in the cow by way of animal feed. Then it shows up in the milk. 

I wonder how long melamine stays in a body? Does it "stick" like heavy metals, or does it pass thru the system to be eliminated? Does anyone have any info about that?

Thankfully I have a goat that freshened yesterday so that takes care of the milk around here. I'll have plenty of hens laying before much longer to take care of the eggs. Now if I only knew how to dehydrate fresh milk & eggs, I could go into business. LOL


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

Here's an interesting reply I got from Nestle' today. While I'm pleased that they even bothered to reply, I'm not that comforted. Walmart hasn't had the decency to reply to my email yet.



> November 3, 2008
> 
> Dear Ms. MOF,
> 
> ...


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## OldFart (Sep 30, 2008)

MOF

I got this reply from Nestle the same day when asking about their coffee-mate products. I didn't get a warm fuzzy feeling either. I find it interesting that in the reply I got they say they do not use ingredients from China, but in the reply you received they do.

*"While some NestlÃ© products may contain ingredients sourced from China, we have extensive on-site personnel and facility resources, allowing us to stay closely informed on quality assurance issues." 
*
So which is it? At the top of both replies they claim they don't use ingredients from China, but farther down in your reply they admit they do. I think I'll be staying away from any Nestle product for a while.


November 3, 2008

Dear Mr. ******,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about NestlÃ©Â® Coffee-mateÂ® Non-Dairy Creamer regarding the safety of our products. We welcome questions and comments from loyal consumers such as yourself and appreciate this opportunity to assist you.

*NestlÃ© USA does not purchase any milk or milk ingredients from China for use in our products manufactured in the U.S.* NestlÃ© has conducted testing for melamine. We have not identified any issues or concerns in the U.S. We are tracking this issue and working closely with our parent company and global regulatory agencies to ensure the continued quality and safety of our products. You can continue to enjoy your favorite NestlÃ© USA products knowing that they are safe.

We appreciate your interest in our products and hope you will visit our website often for the latest information on our products and promotions.

Sincerely,

Beverly Watson
Consumer Response Representative


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

I noticed that too. They're talking out both sides of their mouths on this. Is that just to say that nothing sold here has ingredients from China, but to cover their tushies for anything made elsewhere and imported here?

It's just a little confusing they way it's written.

Ladycat, excellent finds.


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## Narshalla (Sep 11, 2008)

pickapeppa said:


> I noticed that too. They're talking out both sides of their mouths on this. Is that just to say that nothing sold here has ingredients from China, but to cover their tushies for anything made elsewhere and imported here?
> 
> It's just a little confusing they way it's written.
> 
> Ladycat, excellent finds.


No, they are not, not really.

Re: Mom of Four's post: In one statement, they are talking about milk and milk products from cow, in the other, they are talking about meat and meat products from pigs and chickens.

Re: OldFart: Same thing, they get food products from China, just not milk.


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## OldFart (Sep 30, 2008)

I think you may find this interesting. Nestle does have milk producing plants in china.

http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2008/09/milk_from_china_purposely_lace.html

Its up to the consumer to decide if Nestle uses their own milk products in their powdered milk and powdered creamer.

For me, I've read enough to make it impossible for me to but any Nestle product. To believe they keep all their China produced milk products in China is just silly and to put profit margins above public safety insures that I will no longer purchase any Nestle product.

It's just my opinion, but I thought you folks should know about what your buying.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2008)

OldFart said:


> I think you may find this interesting. Nestle does have milk producing plants in china.


They have, I believe it's 4 of them, as I found out the other day while researching the subject.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2008)

OldFart said:


> To believe they keep all their China produced milk products in China is just silly


Consider that they closed their plant in the US which was producing dairy products, and have opened several dairy plants since then in China.

American grocery shelves are full of products which contain Nestle milk.

That milk is coming from _somewhere_.

Brands made by Nestle (click the A-Z's to see them all. It's a bunch!):

http://www.nestle.com/Brands/Brands.htm


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## OldFart (Sep 30, 2008)

ladycat said:


> They have, I believe it's 4 of them, as I found out the other day while researching the subject.





from article said:


> NestlÃ©âs state-of-the-art milk factory in Hailar, Inner Mongolia was opened in July 2007.... *Since NestlÃ© began investing in China two decades ago, we have opened 21 factories* and today employ about 13 000 people. NestlÃ© buys fresh milk from some 40,000 Chinese farmers and provides them with an overall regular income...


I believe this article says 21 factories.

Thanks for the link on the brands!



from article said:


> *NestlÃ© is the worldâs largest milk company, sourcing 11.8 million tonnes of milk*... NestlÃ©âs approach includes the development of milk districts, which involves regular purchasing of milk from local farmers, regardless of how much or how little they produce...


This is extremely disturbing to me since I've recently started trying to stockup on essentials and powdered milk was a big one. I've used most of what I had previously bought and am tossing whats left along with the Coffee-mate! I was going to replace it all with some canned milk but Nestle products were all that were available. I guess I'll do without!


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## pickapeppa (Jan 1, 2005)

Time to look into some mini dairy goats.  Although a box on the shelf is much more handy and less time consuming.


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## Guest (Nov 6, 2008)

OldFart said:


> I was going to replace it all with some canned milk but Nestle products were all that were available.


When I find Santini brand canned milk on sale, I get as much of it as I can. It's made in California.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

I got a letter in the mail today from Sturm Foods, who evidently produces the powdered milk for Walmart. I had given up hearing from Walmart, but I do appreciate the reply. Here is the text of the letter:



> Dear Mrs. MOF;
> 
> Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding Great Value Instant Nonfat Dry Milk. We manufacture this product and your question was sent to us for follow up.
> 
> ...


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## Rockytopsis (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks Mom of Four. We don't drink a lot of milk and found that powdered milk was a better value for us, so their reply to you has made me feel better. It is good to know that everything from walmart does not come from China.


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

Nestle's responded to my inquiry about their NONFAT DRY MILK and EVAPORATED MILK. While they do have factories in China, apparently these two products are still manufactured only in the US:




> "Thank you for contacting CarnationÂ® Nonfat Dry Milk.
> 
> 
> At NestlÃ©, the quality and safety of our products is our highest priority.
> ...


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Spinner said:


> From the info I've been reading lately, I'd guess that the melamine is in the cow by way of animal feed. Then it shows up in the milk.
> 
> I wonder how long melamine stays in a body? Does it "stick" like heavy metals, or does it pass thru the system to be eliminated? Does anyone have any info about that?
> 
> Thankfully I have a goat that freshened yesterday so that takes care of the milk around here. I'll have plenty of hens laying before much longer to take care of the eggs. Now if I only knew how to dehydrate fresh milk & eggs, I could go into business. LOL


Melamine is also used in fertilizer because of its high nitrogen content. It might be leeched into your well water. No one tests for it in groundwater. You might also be eating it in your vegetables. It may also be released in the air as an industrial pollutant and saturate rain water.

The FDA started testing for melamine and its by-products in some food and meat products in October 2008.

It's terrific as a fire retardent because it releases nnitrogen gas when it burns so it's probably in some of the fire-proofing in your home.

Melamine is also used in making plastics used in food packaging. Some plastic cups, saucers, plates and infant baby bottles are also made with melamine. You may be drinking it now.

Melamine is mostly harmless to to adult humans and other mammals. If you are healthy, the melamine forms little round crystals in your kidneys and you get kidney stones which can prevent your kidneys from working properly to remove waste. 

Long-term ingestion can lead to bladder cancer after 50 or 80 years of use. It's in line with about two thousand other things we use that can cause cancer over time!

It takes a while, but they eventually dissolve away. (drink apple juice or something citrus to help dissolve) If you have bad kidneys, it makes them worse and you die swimming in your own urea. If you're an infant or a small cat, your kidneys are too small to take the load. Hence, a handful of infants died and about a hundred dogs and cats.

Considering the stuff has been in use in the USA since the 1950s, we have all probably ingested it in our lives in some form or another.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

that doesn't make me feel much better billhoo.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

MELOC said:


> that doesn't make me feel much better billhoo.


....and they've found DDT in the tissues of arctic wildlife despite the fact there has never been a known application of it in the arctic!


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

MELOC said:


> that doesn't make me feel much better billhoo.


No, but it does help curb some of the hysteria about food additives. Thanks for the info, Billhoo! I grew up eating off of melmac plates, and don't have any health issues. But I wouldn't feed my kids milk I knew had been altered that way.


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

Thanks everyone for the info and discussion. I realize that there is not much I can do to prevent exposure to the many toxins that exists in the environment. I accept that fact for what it is. The aggravation here is that the adulteration of the products was done on purpose. I can't abide by that and refuse to support any company, country or industry that puts profits before the health of any person or livestock. IMHO, these folks should be put on trial for crimes against humanity.


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## MELOC (Sep 26, 2005)

all of this is a bit much during my recovery from researching bromated flour. i used to eat a lot of raw cookie dough and that is apparently a no-no, lol.


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

I grew up drinking Carnation milk, from the Carnation Dairy in Carnation, Washington. In fact, my kindergarten field trip was to that dairy. 

Just to give you a hint about how long ago that was, I stepped in a deep pile of cow shat, with my little mary jane shoes and lace socks, and was spanked by my teacher.

My how times have changed! They are in China now?


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Well, let's see, 2007 the head of China's Food Safety Department was publicly executed for taking bribes from drug companies that sold tainted medicine. Then the head of Mattel in China hangs himself for the lead based paint on toys scandal.

Here in the US, I think they just pay a fine. Ahem! Mortage scandal, ahem! Faulty automobile recalls. Cough! Airline pension robbery 




cowboy joe said:


> Thanks everyone for the info and discussion. I realize that there is not much I can do to prevent exposure to the many toxins that exists in the environment. I accept that fact for what it is. The aggravation here is that the adulteration of the products was done on purpose. I can't abide by that and refuse to support any company, country or industry that puts profits before the health of any person or livestock. IMHO, these folks should be put on trial for crimes against humanity.


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

BillHoo said:


> Well, let's see, 2007 the head of China's Food Safety Department was publicly executed for taking bribes from drug companies that sold tainted medicine. Then the head of Mattel in China hangs himself for the lead based paint on toys scandal.
> 
> Here in the US, I think they just pay a fine. Ahem! Mortage scandal, ahem! Faulty automobile recalls. Cough! Airline pension robbery


Couldn't agree more. They used to hang pirates...today, they put them on the cover of magazines.


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

cowboy joe said:


> Couldn't agree more. They used to hang pirates...today, they put them on the cover of magazines.


Yea, and it gets easier for them too!

The same guy who robs his company's pension plan leaving their retired employees penniless, gets hired by another company because he has the experience!

He knows the drill! Spend a few months in court. Wear an orange jump suit, pay a fine (a fraction of what was looted) and get a promotion or a new job making more money!

How do I sign up for that?

In fact, I think that's the current practice.

Corporate CEO: How do we make more money from our product?

Hotshot American Suit: We can use cheaper, somewhat dangerous materials and sell them to our own folks here despite the dangers.

Corporate CEO: Brilliant! But we cannot be implicated. I don't want to wear an orange jumpsuit!

Hotshot American Suit: I know a guy in China. He can get it all done for us on the Q T. If he gets caught, we write up a memo, look suprised and blame it on the Chinese. Our hands our clean Sir! Regardless of who is making this crap or gets caught, we still pocket the profits in our annual report!

Corporate CEO: Brilliant! You get a promotion and keys to the house in Aruba. Make it happen champ!

The problem is we are not teaching our own kids to be ethical. We have country folks selling crystal meth to local kids. We have city folks selling heroin to their neighbors. Send them to school and they learn to sell lead based toys to everyone without getting caught.


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

You forgot the part about the a golden parachute...


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

cowboy joe said:


> You forgot the part about the a golden parachute...


Yes. But I figures that is only for the kind of inept corporate criminal who drive the company into the ground.

No, I'm thinking of the professional who knows not to kill the cash cow or goose that lays the golden eggs. He'll milk them forever if he has to and will never need a golden parachute.

the kind of guy who lays off 3 thousand works and says "Folks we're in tough times. We have to do more with less. Everyone is going to be looked at to pull their own weight now that the excess fat has been cut out. Some folks may have to wear more than one hat and work extra hours for the same salary without a raise" In the meantime, he gives himself a 6 million bonus for saving the company from having to pay those 3 thousand salaries.


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## liberte (Nov 14, 2008)

ladycat said:


> Hmm.
> 
> http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2008/09/milk_from_china_purposely_lace.html




I have the exact box of the powered milk pictured in the story. It's going in the trash. 

Does anyone know of a safe brand of powered milk? Or perhaps a portable test kit for melamine would be better. I've been reading how chicken feed and other animal feeds might have melamine in it.

I wonder just how contaminated our food supply is?? Anyone??


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

liberte said:


> I have the exact box of the powered milk pictured in the story. It's going in the trash.
> 
> Does anyone know of a safe brand of powered milk? Or perhaps a portable test kit for melamine would be better. I've been reading how chicken feed and other animal feeds might have melamine in it.
> 
> I wonder just how contaminated our food supply is?? Anyone??


Hey. Take it a step further. Do you really believe the FRESH milk you buy comes from a local dairy? it may have been bottled locally, but may have been mixed with milk from a huge tanker truck coming from many different sources.

Yogurt and cheese? Much of it today is made from powdered milk products from all over the place. Powdered milk is cheaper to transport and has fewer storage and spilage problems.

Once it's been processed into yogurt and cheese, no one can tell the difference.

Cookies and baked goods? Again, what you buy gets mixed at the factory. The manufacturer wants to keep prices down and will buy from the cheapest source.

Once you bake a cake, or cookie, most people will not be able to tell if they used powdered milk or fresh.

Flavored creamers at your local coffee shop?

Puddings and desserts that are powdered or canned?

As long as you are nt an invalid or a 10 pound baby, or a 12 pound dog or cat, you will not likely suffer ill effects.

I'd worry more about drinking water, milk or juice out of plastic bottles. More toxins there over time than a glass of powdered milk.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2008)

liberte said:


> Does anyone know of a safe brand of powered milk?


I buy Bob's Red Mill brand.


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## cowboy joe (Sep 14, 2003)

Interesting development...

"FDA begins blocking import of Chinese milk products
Posted: 10:00 PM ET
(CNN) â The Food and Drug Administration has begun blocking the import of milk products from China in an effort to ensure that products contaminated with melamine do not enter the U.S. market.

The agency, in an alert posted Wednesday on its Web site, ordered the âdetention without physical examination of all milk products, milk-derived ingredients and finished food products containing milk from China due to the presence of melamine and/or melamine analogs.â

The agency listed dozens of products, including cereals, snack foods, cheese, ice cream, carbonated drinks, candy, puddings and pet foods as potentially contaminated with melamine, which is used in the manufacture of plastics and fertilizer."

http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/13/fda-begins-blocking-import-of-chinese-milk-products/

http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/melamine.html


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## liberte (Nov 14, 2008)

BillHoo said:


> Hey. Take it a step further. Do you really believe the FRESH milk you buy comes from a local dairy? it may have been bottled locally, but may have been mixed with milk from a huge tanker truck coming from many different sources.
> 
> Yogurt and cheese? Much of it today is made from powdered milk products from all over the place. Powdered milk is cheaper to transport and has fewer storage and spilage problems.
> 
> ...




It's a sign of the times that melamine contamination occured from FRAUDULENT producers. And instead of putting an instant halt to the problem, corporations and government (until today) were minimizing the problem. Complete bovine excrement. BTW, are you aware that our children are now having kidney stones at a rate unheard of a few years ago??

All the more reason for a melamine test kit. I wonder just how far our food supply is contaminated? Is the roast chicken breast you had for lunch contaminated because of melamine feed?

Time for some google work......


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

OK.

For all you are are still skittish. I recently got this courtesy of the Organization of Chinese-AMERICANS, NJ Chapter because many Chinese AMERICANS buy goods at asian groceries:


The whole world is scared of China made 'black hearted goods'. Can you differentiate which one is made in the USA , Philippines , Taiwan or China ? Let me tell you how... the first 3 digits of the barcode is the country code wherein the product was made. 

Sample all barcodes that start with 690, 691, 692 and 695 are all MADE IN CHINA. 
471 is Made in Taiwan 

<can't seem to insert the sample picture here for the barcode from Taiwan, but it kinda looks like this: >

4 7110088 412539


The first digit "4" is actually outside the boundry of the barcode sitting by itself. There are a few spaces and then you add the next two digits "71" to get 471. The other numbers that follow I suppose are inventory and warehouse numbers.

This is our human right to know, but the government and related departments never educate the public, therefore we have to RESCUE ourselves.

Nowadays, Chinese businessmen know that consumers do not prefer products 'made in china', so they don't show from which country it is made. 

However, you may now refer to the barcode, remember if the first 3 digits is 690 thru 695 then it is Made in China . 

00 ~ 13 USA & CANADA 
30 ~ 37 FRANCE 
40 ~ 44 GERMANY 
49 ~ JAPAN 
50 ~ UK 
57 ~ Denmark 
64 ~ Finland 
76 ~ Switzerland and Lienchtenstein 
628 ~ Saudi-Arabien 
629 ~ United Arab Emirates 
740 ~ 745 - Central America 

All 480 Codes are Made in the Philippines. 

Please inform your family and friends for them to be aware.


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## MaryE (Aug 29, 2007)

That barcode information is very helpful. Thanks!


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## Horns Bach (Mar 11, 2008)

I read in some news article that after the melamine thing in China with the baby formula, I believe, the Koreans(?) were killing their cattle because of this. Why would they kill their cattle if it was supposely an additive "after the fact" - you know melamine added to the powdered form? So why destroy the cows? 

Are we receiving the full story here?


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## OldFart (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks for the info. It forced me to Google for more. What I found is...

*"The first 2 (sometimes 3) digits, which are called the âflagâ, indicate in what country the bar code was issued. This âflagâ does not tell you, however, in what country the product was produced."*

Check the link below for more.

http://www.food-info.net/uk/qa/qa-fp121.htm

Thanks again for the info.

Here is another interesting read. Apparently some companies use registered code numbers from other countries to get their products sold!

http://loftware.wordpress.com/2008/11/04/gs1-barcode-coo-confusion-continues-to-abound/


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## Horns Bach (Mar 11, 2008)

Many unknowns with our food supply:
GM maize allowed to enter European Union
April 2008

The European Union has authorised imports of a genetically modified (GM) maize type for sale across its 27 national markets for the next 10 years. The maize, known by its codename GA21, is marketed by Swiss agrochemicals company Syngenta and will be used in food and animal feed, not for growing in Europe's fields.
GA21 maize has been engineered to provide resistance to herbicides containing glyphosate."
link: http://www.allaboutfeed.net/home/id102-44705/gm_maize_allowed_to_enter_european_union.html

What else is Syngenta engineering into traditional food and feed crops? There is talk of engineering plastics (polymers) into crops to replace traditional petroleum derived plastics, engineering crops to make them more efficient for biofuels, etc. Like putting rubber tree genes into corn genes and making a corn plant that produces rubber. Weird stuff like that.

Syngenta to build major global biotech research center in Beijing, China (April 17, 2008)
http://www.syngenta.com.ph/en/media/mediareleases/en_080417.html


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## BillHoo (Mar 16, 2005)

Oh don't even get into genetic alterations on this thread! That's a whole nother topic in itself.

Anyone live near the Smithfield factory farms see some of their escaped pigs?

I hear that Hogzilla they sht a few years ago was one of them. A genetically modified super-pig. Engineered to grow quickly for maximum profit and low feed cost. No problem if you slaughter them at 200 pounds when their 4 months old.

However, when they get loose and start eating unchecked in the wild, they grow to those huge proportions!

An 11-year-old Alabama boy used a pistol to kill a wild hog his father says weighed a staggering 1,051 pounds and measured 9-feet-4 from the tip of its snout to the base of its tail. Think hams as big as car tires.


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## Horns Bach (Mar 11, 2008)

Just heard news that the FDA is now moving to China as well. :bash:


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2008)

Horns Bach said:


> Just heard news that the FDA is now moving to China as well. :bash:


No they're not. They're opening some offices there so they can monitor food production more closely.


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## unregistered29228 (Jan 9, 2008)

The bar code thing....it would be great to be able to see country of origin. But a friend just gave me this link at Snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/barcodes.asp

Basically it says that the first three numbers are banking info for the home office for a company, and has no link to where their products are made. Basically the same thing from the link Horns Bach posted.


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## Horns Bach (Mar 11, 2008)

ladycat said:


> No they're not. They're opening some offices there so they can monitor food production more closely.


We've never had our FDA in China before.


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