# Men are afraid to mentor women after #MeToo



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

*Men are afraid to mentor women after #MeToo and it hurts us all: study*

"By Rob Bailey-Millado
May 17, 2019 

Men are scared of women now.

LeanIn.org and SurveyMonkey’s new #MentorHer poll reveals Friday that 60% of male managers report feeling “too nervous” about being accused of harassment to interact with women in “common workplace” activities such as mentoring, socializing and one-on-one meetings.

That’s a 32% spike from 2018, with an additional 36% of men saying they now actively avoid women in junior-level positions — effectively chopping down their shot at climbing the corporate ladder.

The study reports that the fear factor grew in concurrence with the rise of the massive #MeToo social media movement founded by activist Tarana Burke and fueled by a torrent of models and actresses accusing Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby of sexual harassment and assault."

https://nypost.com/2019/05/17/men-are-afraid-to-mentor-women-after-metoo-and-it-hurts-us-all-study/


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Well women have been afraid of men for thousands of years.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I completely understand that. Why voluntarily put yourself in jeopardy? Any slip of the tongue, joke, or accidental elbow bump is cause for accusations. 

The Me 2 folks had some valid complaints, but 50% of women are of lower than average intelligence. The dingbats are creating unintended consequences.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Well women have been afraid of men for thousands of years.


That has nothing to do with this though.
We've had lots of threads about that.
This one is about the consequences of constantly complaining.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

I mentioned here last summer that the men my friends and I meet with at the mall are scared to talk to any women now just the ones they have known for many years. they shy away from anyone they don't know. it's too bad it's come to that.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The dingbats are creating unintended consequences.


I fear they will continue, still mistakenly thinking they are accomplishing something worthwhile.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Women are told not to dress a certain way, not to put yourself in certain situations. They are called names when men want to marginalize them. Al.l this done in the workplace and in schools. Men understanding how this feels is not a bad thing.

Women have dealt with this forever.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

I wear suspenders. I have had more than one totally unitroduced woman snap my suspenders.
do I get to join the "me too" club ?


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I fear they will continue, still mistakenly thinking they are accomplishing something worthwhile.


I too feel the need to somehow have a chaperone in attendance. Having had the experience of false accusations myself, I had to sit through a number of proceedings and saw the unlevel playing field that was presented for men. There were some proceedings where the man was not present and the statement of the woman, because of the man's absence, was taken as gospel.

Nope... not me, I have a lot to share and I would do so in an honorable fashion but I won't do it without protecting myself.

Disclaimer: I accept and hate the fact that the actions of some men made Domestic Laws necessary but that process got turned into a money making adventure for those that might get qualified to build and run one of those shelters


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Totally understandable for the men to be that way. I avoid most all women now except in wide open public. There is a woman I've known for about 15 years. Occasionally she will call and ask if I want to meet for dinner in town. I usually go, but make sure I get there before she does or after she does. Sit in open public area. Leave a bit after she does. If we talk outside, it is in front of the doors. She is trustworthy, but I'm still gonna cover my behind.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> *Women* are told not to dress a certain way, not to put yourself in certain situations. *They* are called names when men want to marginalize them. Al.l this done in the workplace and in schools. Men understanding how this feels is not a bad thing.
> 
> *Women *have dealt with this forever.


You keep trying to change the topic.
This thread is about women *complaining,* and now having to reap what they sowed.

They wanted to be left alone.
They got what they asked for.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> I wear suspenders. I have had more than one totally unitroduced woman snap my suspenders.
> do I get to join the "me too" club ?


I should think so. After all it's akin to snapping a bra strap. I don't understand why anyone would walk up to a perfect stranger and fiddle with their clothing.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Well boys, it's like this.......

Being cautious is good, being respectful is good.
Being kind and helpful *whenever possible* is good.
But going thru life scared of women..........not so good.

Now, they ARE one of God's awesome creations.
And the fact they can bring forth new life into this world, bleed several days every month and not die, and STILL manage to out live us men should make us handle them with care, but fear?
Not really.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Danaus29 said:


> I should think so. After all it's akin to snapping a bra strap. I don't understand why anyone would walk up to a perfect stranger and fiddle with their clothing.


I wouldn't even do it to an *imperfect* stranger.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Danaus29 said:


> I don't understand why anyone would walk up to *a perfect stranger* and fiddle with their clothing.


Usually in a workplace they aren't really "strangers" by the time something such as that is done.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

I have only had one experience remotely relevant. Once I was slapped on the rear by a female co-worker. 

First, I was fully aware that I had drifted into a gathering of the wild crowd and nothing was intended beyond clowning around.

Second, I knew she was a lesbian and had no interest in me aside from clowning around as an end in itself.

Consequently, I took no offense whatsoever.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

I've been afraid of women my whole life. The power they exert over us mere men is mind boggling.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> Women are told not to dress a certain way, not to put yourself in certain situations. They are called names when men want to marginalize them. Al.l this done in the workplace and in schools. Men understanding how this feels is not a bad thing.
> 
> Women have dealt with this forever.


Turnabout is fair play, isn't it? For centuries women couldn't let their guard down around men, and now it's them that is nervous. If mentoring women is part of a man's job, he had better figure out a way to interact with women pretty darn quick or they'll lose his job.

It's not hard to be a decent man around women, be professional and keep your hands to your self.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Turnabout is fair play, isn't it? For centuries women couldn't let their guard down around men, and now it's them that is nervous. If mentoring women is part of a man's job, he had better figure out a way to interact with women pretty darn quick or they'll lose his job.
> 
> It's not hard to be a decent man around women, be professional and keep your hands to your self.


And then she gets mad about something and lies. Game over.

It is very telling how you and a few others consider this "Turnabout is fair play".

From now on, smart men will use the Pence rule.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> And then she gets mad about something and lies. Game over.
> 
> It is very telling how you and a few others consider this "Turnabout is fair play".
> 
> From now on, smart men will use the Pence rule.


"I never touched that woman" "I never told her she'd be fired if she didn't have sex with me" "I only slapped her on the butt, where is her sense of humor?" Men have lied about what they did to women for centuries. 

So they're going to call women "mother"? and treat them as second class citizens? LOL That'll work (outside of the old white male dominated political game) right up until the first one files a complaint with HR.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Men will choose to have a third party in attendance to forestall bogus claims.

Some women are simply making it more difficult for other women.

Maybe it is simply revenge for you @Irish Pixie


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Women should not be scared to report legitimate sexual harassment because men are scared that their behavior might cross the line and be reported.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

https://www.bing.com/images/search?...72220FEC88750DFE14CBD0840FAFE82CD&FORM=IQFRBA


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

At our work we had a very extensive meeting about their "sexual harrassment" policy.

All of our copies were written in red and every employee had to sign off on it.

Now I know there are some pretty sleazeball guys out there, but I kind of think this went over the top.

One woman I work with on our charitable foundation changed the style and color of her hair.

I mentioned to her last week that it looks very nice and than realized that I had just violated our companies sexual harrassment policy.

If something so simple is a violation I would hate to be a manager working with woman I was supposed to train.

Since our new policy went into effect I kept my eyes (or ears) open and have found many situations among both Male and female

employees who made statements that could be a violation.

Almost all were made by "more mature" employees who had worked together for a number of years.

However, the same simple statement made to a younger new employee who has been properly brainwashed would have been

a federal case.

It's not only working with woman.

Men are also reluctant to do volunteer work with young people.

On the whole our society suffers.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

By the way, I wear a size 13 wide width shoe.

Women at work have made comments about men with big feet.

Even though I told them they should not believe what they hear, do I need a lawyer?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> Turnabout is fair play, isn't it? For centuries women couldn't let their guard down around men, and now it's them that is nervous. If mentoring women is part of a man's job, he had better figure out a way to interact with women pretty darn quick or they'll lose his job.
> 
> It's not hard to be a decent man around women, be professional and keep your hands to your self.


 No
Turnabout is NOT FairPlay .
Two wrongs do not make a right. 
If it was wrong for some it is doubly wrong for those that have experienced it to do.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> No
> Turnabout is NOT FairPlay .
> Two wrongs do not make a right.
> If it was wrong for some it is doubly wrong for those that have experienced it to do.


I'm not suggesting that women sexually harass men, the turnabout is that men now have to be careful about what they say and do to women. Perhaps I wasn't clear...


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> No
> Turnabout is NOT FairPlay .
> Two wrongs do not make a right.
> If it was wrong for some it is doubly wrong for those that have experienced it to do.


I would agree in principle but I have also observed that most people have little or no motivation to remedy the wrong until it expands to include them directly in its effects.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

JJ Grandits said:


> By the way, I wear a size 13 wide width shoe.
> 
> Women at work have made comments about men with big feet.
> 
> Even though I told them they should not believe what they hear, do I need a lawyer?


I come from a family rather well know locally for substantial size and ability. 
I had a woman grab the front of my pants yank the pants out ,peer in and make the remark “ 
I’m not impressed”
How should I have replied?
1 he isn’t either
2 he is in hiding
3 not as big as yours ?
4 yeah he remembers your last visit.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

AmericanStand said:


> I come from a family rather well know locally for substantial size and ability.
> I had a woman grab the front of my pants yank the pants out ,peer in and make the remark “
> I’m not impressed”
> How should I have replied?
> ...


If you could think it through like that at the time of the incident, I am I.pressed. I would most likely be frozen in shock and disbelief.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There are men who behave badly. There are woman that behave badly. Just because an article points this out and some are abundantly cautious in their future interactions, #metoo will not stop or should it. Men understanding what women have faced for ages is a good thing.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> @HDRider You are not the determiner of what I think, dear. And no, women just want to be able to live life without being harassed by men. Men simply have to be conscious of what they say and do to women now because there are consequences.


It appears to be a simple matter of revenge for you. 

You are right, I do not determine what you think. I determine what I think about what you write.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> It appears to be a simple matter of revenge for you.
> 
> You are right, I do not determine what you think. I determine what I think about what you write.


Exactly, nothing but your opinion!


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

IndyDave said:


> If you could think it through like that at the time of the incident, I am I.pressed. I would most likely be frozen in shock and disbelief.


Lol I was
She was a few steps away before I reacted by tossing my drink at her. In advertantly hitting her on the butt 
The gender roles were so reversed that when she turned I threw the words “you b witch” and a limp wrist in her direction. 
Everyone Broke silences and laughed then started offing up helpful suggestions of what I should have said a few of which I included above.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

She did call you dear.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm not suggesting that women sexually harass men, the turnabout is that men now have to be careful about what they say and do to women. Perhaps I wasn't clear...


 No you were clear and that’s what I responded to.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> Men understanding what women have faced for ages is a good thing.


 It isnt and we won’t.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

This whole thing is stupid. Act like you're in a professional situation at work and it will never be a problem.

I've always watched my P's and Q's while with people I don't know, or with people I know at work. It's work. It's not your clubhouse, a bar, or a backyard BBQ. 

It's not difficult. The fact that there's the supposed hysteria going around is maybe a clue, if you're worried about it, even you know your behavior has been questionable. I've never worried about it because I know I'm always professional in a work or work social situation. If you act that professional, always, and someone falsely accuses you, everyone around you will know it's a false accusation. Act like a grownup and you won't have a problem.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mish said:


> This whole thing is stupid. Act like you're in a professional situation at work and it will never be a problem.
> 
> I've always watched my P's and Q's while with people I don't know, or with people I know at work. It's work. It's not your clubhouse, a bar, or a backyard BBQ.
> 
> It's not difficult. The fact that there's the supposed hysteria going around is maybe a clue, if you're worried about it, even you know your behavior has been questionable. I've never worried about it because I know I'm always professional in a work or work social situation. If you act that professional, always, and someone falsely accuses you, everyone around you will know it's a false accusation. Act like a grownup and you won't have a problem.


I disagree. Rabid dogs bite for no reason.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

HDRider said:


> I disagree. Rabid dogs bite for no reason.


And if you've always acted appropriately and carefully around dogs that might be rabid, you aren't going to have to worry about people falsely accusing you of being bitten.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

St. Mish, how many men followed just what you described and were still accused ??
all a woman has to do is call "rape" and it is all over for any innocent man..
just keep this in mind, it could happen to you..
that is what this thread is all about.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Mish said:


> This whole thing is stupid. Act like you're in a professional situation at work and it will never be a problem.
> 
> I've always watched my P's and Q's while with people I don't know, or with people I know at work. It's work. It's not your clubhouse, a bar, or a backyard BBQ.
> 
> It's not difficult. The fact that there's the supposed hysteria going around is maybe a clue, if you're worried about it, even you know your behavior has been questionable. I've never worried about it because I know I'm always professional in a work or work social situation. If you act that professional, always, and someone falsely accuses you, everyone around you will know it's a false accusation. Act like a grownup and you won't have a problem.


I agree with this and do exactly that. I dont mind mentoring anyone as long as they have the drive to do better.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> St. Mish, how many men followed just what you described and were still accused ??
> all a woman has to do is call "rape" and it is all over for any innocent man..
> just keep this in mind, it could happen to you..
> that is what this thread is all about.



Your/their history should speak for itself.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mreynolds said:


> I agree with this and do exactly that. I dont mind mentoring anyone as long as they have the drive to do better.


I can't imagine a man such as yourself would be unprofessional, and that's really all women want.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> St. Mish, how many men followed just what you described and were still accused ??




I don't have the numbers of men who acted nothing but professionally and were accused, do you care to provide them? I'm betting it's lower than the number of men who have acted like they were anywhere but work and were accused, but I don't have statistics. I'd love to see the numbers you have.



[email protected] said:


> all a woman has to do is call "rape" and it is all over for any innocent man..


This is patently untrue and makes me think you have no idea how any of this works.



[email protected] said:


> just keep this in mind, it could happen to you..
> that is what this thread is all about.


It could happen to me? I'm somewhere around the ::cough:: half century mark and have neither been accused of sexual harassment/rape nor accused anyone else of it. As I said, I'm always professional in professional situations and have always been extremely careful about not putting myself in situations where questions might be asked.

Maybe that's because I'm a female and that's the best way to keep yourself from getting in trouble. It works for men, too, as I know plenty of very professional men who have also never been sexually harassed/raped nor been accused of either.

Give it a try. It works.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> I can't imagine a man such as yourself would be unprofessional, and that's really all women want.


It's been my experience that most women will start a professional relationship very guarded. I can only imagine what goes through their head but I tend to guess. 

_Does he think I am an airhead female? _

_Is he listening to me or staring at me chest?_ 

_He doesnt believe I can do his job. _

If so, this is understandable because men think many of the same things. Case in point the OP and how many men are running scared. It doesnt mean they are all past offenders but just unsure of how to proceed. Good communication begins with and ends with respect. If #metoo wants to enact real change they should cut out all the innuendos and communicate better. If men dont want to be worried every time they clock in they should do the same. 

IE, it doesnt help when Alyssa calls for a sex ban because that implies that women have power over men. I thought the whole point was to be equal and not one having power over the other. Anyway, in my opinion, there is a lot wrong on both sides and communication is key.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mish said:


> And if you've always acted appropriately and carefully around dogs that might be rabid, you aren't going to have to worry about people falsely accusing you of being bitten.


I don't think it matters how you behave around rabid dogs, they bite.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

HDRider said:


> I don't think it matters how you behave around rabid dogs, they bite.


So only be around rabid dogs while there are other people present to help watch the dog. Don't tease the rabid dog. Don't play with the rabid dog. Treat it with respect and keep your distance. 

It's not rocket science.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mish said:


> So *only be around rabid dogs while there are other people present* to help watch the dog. Don't tease the rabid dog. Don't play with the rabid dog. Treat it with respect and keep your distance.
> 
> It's not rocket science.


That is what I said a dozen posts ago.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

HDRider said:


> That is what I said a dozen posts ago.


You're implying that all dogs are rabid. Most dogs aren't, and shouldn't be treated as such.

Should I be offended by the dog analogy? Nah, dogs are cool.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mreynolds said:


> It's been my experience that most women will start a professional relationship very guarded. I can only imagine what goes through their head but I tend to guess.
> 
> _Does he think I am an airhead female? _
> 
> ...


There are very very few that agree with Alyssa and her sex ban, and that was about making abortion a criminal offense even in the case of rape, incest, and the health of the woman, not MeToo. It is about equality, and not power.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Mish said:


> You're implying that all dogs are rabid. Most dogs aren't, and shouldn't be treated as such.
> 
> Should I be offended by the dog analogy? Nah, dogs are cool.


I never implied all dogs are rapid, only that rapid dogs exists. Rapid dogs are most definitely not cool


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

mreynolds said:


> Your/their history should speak for itself.


But doesn’t everyone have a spotless history till they are accused ?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Nope


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

How does that work ?


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## Alder (Aug 18, 2014)

Stupid consequences of stupid actions. 

Gads. Guess I don't have a lot of sympathy for "MeeeeeToo!" after coming of age as a young woman before the Women's Lib BS thing took off, when you simply had to trust your gut, watch out for bad situations, and expect/DEMAND to be treated like a lady (that YOU YOURSELF actually behaved and dressed as!).

OK. I'm done now.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Alder is right.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Alder is right.


Alder is alright.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I’m still waiting to find out how some one would have a spot on their record before thay had a accusation.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

IndyDave said:


> I have only had one experience remotely relevant. Once I was slapped on the rear by a female co-worker.
> 
> First, I was fully aware that I had drifted into a gathering of the wild crowd and nothing was intended beyond clowning around.
> 
> ...





IndyDave said:


> I have only had one experience remotely relevant. Once I was slapped on the rear by a female co-worker.
> 
> First, I was fully aware that I had drifted into a gathering of the wild crowd and nothing was intended beyond clowning around.
> 
> ...


(She was a Lesbian) LOL some of my best were Lesbian. Being a Lesbian does not mean they don't want some loving.  from a Man.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I’ve had some great dates with lesbians. The didn’t seem interested in sex just a nice day out.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Illinois has two laws that pretty much has led to a fear of being alone with women at all
A rape can be prosecuted for 18 years after it happened or after the woman’s 18th birthday which ever comes last
Conviction of rape can be based on the testimony of one person.
Think about how long a period of opportunity for revenge based on something else extends.
How can you defend yourself from something that did not happen as much as 36 years ago when her account is all that counts?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Irish Pixie said:


> There are very very few that agree with Alyssa and her sex ban, and that was about making abortion a criminal offense even in the case of rape, incest, and the health of the woman, not MeToo. It is about equality, and not power.


And I understand this but even if she was protesting green beans with a sex ban she is also one of the main faces of Metoo. She is implying that women have power over men to make them toe the line. I have nothing against her but I think she was wrong for that. 

People only have power over you if you give it to them.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> I’m still waiting to find out how some one would have a spot on their record before thay had a accusation.


Not exactly what you said. Depends on if you are talking about recorded history or hidden history.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mreynolds said:


> And I understand this but even if she was protesting green beans with a sex ban she is also one of the main faces of Metoo. She is implying that women have power over men to make them toe the line. I have nothing against her but I think she was wrong for that.
> 
> People only have power over you if you give it to them.


People aren't infallible, and Alyssa Milano was absolutely wrong to try to start a sex ban. She doesn't speak for everyone.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> St. Mish, how many men followed just what you described and were still accused ??
> all a woman has to do is call "rape" and it is all over for any innocent man..
> just keep this in mind, it could happen to you..
> that is what this thread is all about.


To this day I am still often shocked at just how ignorant men's behaviour can be towards women. In all circumstances. There are millions of decent men who do know how to behave towards women AND other men but there are also millions who are just complete jerks and actual criminals. Of course men never accept this as a fact and protect each other. And sadly many decent men do not involve themselves when they see harassment or assault happening. Too afraid to confront the disgusting men and their behaviour in case the bile turns on them. 

I have worked since the 1970s and although times are changing slowly so much is still the same. Thankfully I had a father who taught me to defend myself. Never allowed anyone to touch me and get away with it or disrespect me or anyone in my presence. Of course men do not think that this was the huge problem it was and is, but seriously - sometimes it was like having to swat flies all day long. Fortunately I had a very good and accurate punch. And what a bunch of whiners when they got a response. 

Every place that I worked had a creep list. Sometimes it was just one but other times quite a few on it. As soon as we started work the women would educate us as to who was a creep and who were the decent men that you could depend on. Some truly fantastic men stepped in to protect and in a few cases administer well deserved lessons. 

Innocent men have been falsely accused. No denying this. Guilty men have also walked away and still continue to walk away despite clear evidence. If you consider how many women have been assaulted verbally, physically and sexually at work and in their personal lives - and not been believed or in fact they have been punished for reporting - then it is high time that men clean up their act. What are you teaching your sons? As far as I can see - the same disrespect and bullying that has always been accepted.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

emdeengee said:


> To this day I am still often shocked at just how ignorant men's behaviour can be towards women. In all circumstances. There are millions of decent men who do know how to behave towards women AND other men but there are also millions who are just complete jerks and actual criminals. Of course men never accept this as a fact and protect each other. And sadly many decent men do not involve themselves when they see harassment or assault happening. Too afraid to confront the disgusting men and their behaviour in case the bile turns on them.
> 
> I have worked since the 1970s and although times are changing slowly so much is still the same. Thankfully I had a father who taught me to defend myself. Never allowed anyone to touch me and get away with it or disrespect me or anyone in my presence. Of course men do not think that this was the huge problem it was and is, but seriously - sometimes it was like having to swat flies all day long. Fortunately I had a very good and accurate punch. And what a bunch of whiners when they got a response.
> 
> ...


Perfect post. Thank you.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> If mentoring women is part of a man's job, he had better figure out a way to interact with women pretty darn quick or they'll lose his job.


It's not a part of their job.
It's a courtesy they are no longer willing to extend due to #metoo.
It seems you didn't read the article.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Women should not be scared to report legitimate sexual harassment because men are scared that their behavior might cross the line and be reported.


Men shouldn't be afraid to be alone with women due to those who will lie,* but*...........
You're still trying to change the topic.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Mish said:


> So *only be around rabid dogs while there are other people present* to help watch the dog. Don't tease the rabid dog. *Don't play with* the rabid dog. Treat it with respect and *keep your distance*.
> 
> It's not rocket science.


That's pretty much what the OP article said too, and it's costing females advancement opportunities.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

First cleanup.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

You reap what you sow. The sexual revolution sowed it’s disgusting seeds in the 60s and today the harvest is plentiful and ripe.

Enjoy.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Women have been afraid of men in the workplace forever. Men sexually assault them and lie about it. They pass them over for advancement and lie about it. Nothing new there.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Women have been afraid of men in the workplace forever. Men sexually assault them and lie about it. They pass them over for advancement and lie about it. Nothing new there.


Women lie too.
Nothing new there either.

You're still just trying to change the topic.
Nothing new there.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Women have been passed over for advancement by men as long as they have been in the workplace just because they are women. Now some men have another fake excuse. Thankfully there or more than enough good, honest men that don't need those games to the use as an excuse.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Women have been passed over for advancement by men as long as they have been in the workplace just because they are women. Now some men have another fake excuse.


There's nothing "fake" about it.
Women complained and men have reacted.



painterswife said:


> Thankfully there or more than enough *good, honest* men that don't need those games to the use as an excuse.


If all women fit that description there would be no problem, but we know that's not the case.
Some women will lie to get what they want, even when men have nothing to do with it at all.
You know that's true.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Men lie to get what they want. They use excuses like " men will be men" to excuse their bad behavior. There are men who are going to use #metoo to hide their bad behaviour. Good men will not have too.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

People are people. The sooner everyone grows up the better off everyone will be.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Good men will not have too.


Good men have to protect themselves.
It means lost opportunities for all women.

You keep trying to change the topic by repeating yourself again and again.
Militant women caused this situation.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> Men lie to get what they want. They use excuses like " men will be men" to excuse their bad behavior. There are men who are going to use #metoo to hide their bad behaviour.* Good men will not have too.*


This is the entire point of the MeToo movement. If you are a good person, you have nothing to worry about. If you aren't, have people around you to so you will be forced to be a decent person.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Good women in have been trying to protect themselves forever. Women who have been abused, raped, humiliated, put down, have finally stood up and said they won't take it anymore and men are finally beginning to understand what they have dealt with for decades and more. You call them militant , another put down after what they have suffered for generations. That is disgusting.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> This is the entire point of the MeToo movement. If you are a good person, you have nothing to worry about.


Brett Kavanaugh would say you're mistaken.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Good women in have been trying to protect themselves forever.


More repetition.



painterswife said:


> You call them militant , another put down after what they have suffered for generations. That is disgusting.


I call them what they are.
I think you're just trying to get the thread locked now.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Brett Kavanaugh would say you're mistaken.


LOL. Thank you for making my point.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> LOL. Thank you for making my point.


Thank you for making mine.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Thank you for making mine.


I agree wholeheartedly.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

From today's headlines..
It was only after the neighbor’s death that Sorey admitted to police that she “fabricated the entire report of sexual battery and that it never happened.”


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I can't quote this, please read. https://pagesix.com/2017/10/16/harvey-weinstein-allegedly-masturbated-into-potted-plant/

Nor this one: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/arts/television/louis-ck-sexual-misconduct.html

Good read: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/la-et-bill-cosby-timeline-htmlstory.html

 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/23/us/metoo-replacements.html


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Women being called militant because they had the courage to finally speak the truth about the attacks they experienced, the sexual harassment they experienced. Is that the same thing the men who speak up if they experience such things will be called? That is must plain sad. Turning on the victims.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Women being called militant because they had the courage to finally speak the truth about the attacks they experienced, the sexual harassment they experienced. Is that the same thing the men who speak up if they experience such things will be called? That is must plain sad. Turning on the victims.


Courage is reporting the crime when there is a chance to prove it in a court of law.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Rape/sexual assault law is expanding to no statute of limitations in some states, and many states have no statute on reporting and DNA.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Rape/sexual assault law is expanding to no statute of limitations in some states, and many states have no statute on reporting and DNA.


Understood. Still need proof


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Courage is reporting the crime when there is a chance to prove it in a court of law.


Courage? What do you know about courage and rape/sexual assault? SMH


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Courage? What do you know about courage and rape/sexual assault? SMH


Probably about as much as anyone else.


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## IndyDave (Jul 17, 2017)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Probably about as much as anyone else.


One wonders if he has been raped and required to apply said courage.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Women being called militant because they had the courage to finally speak the truth


Not all of them "speak the truth".



> Irish Pixie said: ↑
> Courage? What do you know about courage and rape/sexual assault? SMH


Still trying to change the topic I see.


----------



## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Women have been passed over for advancement by men as long as they have been in the workplace just because they are women. Now some men have another fake excuse. Thankfully there or more than enough good, honest men that don't need those games to the use as an excuse.


AND hopefully there will be enough good, honest women out there for them....


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Well women have been afraid of men for thousands of years.


 Nice one !


I will expand that to people are afraid of everything now,....scared of everything from A-Z...…..

Best quote I have heard in a while the other day......" The young ones are scared of everything now a days"...…...it was said by a old Indian chief.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

Haven't seen this addressed in the thread: If you heard the term, "Slept --- way to the top". Whom do you believe would be the subject of conversation, a man or a woman?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yes it addresses a power women have that men generally do not. 
We won’t speak about it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Courage? What do you know about courage and rape/sexual assault? SMH


Courage is making a difference in the calculus of the attacked and the attacker. Proof and a court of law does that.

Courage is not singing in a choir hiding behind a hashtag.

I don't have to die on a beach to know those young men had courage. I don't have to be raped to know it takes courage to bring the attacker to justice.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gilberte said:


> If you heard the term, *"Slept --- way to the top".* Whom do you believe would be the subject of conversation, a man or a woman?


Kamala Harris was the first one I thought of.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Kamala Harris was the first one I thought of.


She was #2. Harvey was #1


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Is that the same thing the men who speak up if they experience such things will be called?


If they wait 10 years or more and can't show any real proof that's quite possible.
If they seem to be more politically or financially motivated they will likely be called other things too. 

But men are better at avoiding such situations and not as likely to play the victim the way some women like to do.



> That is must plain sad. Turning on the victims.


People falsely accused are also victims.

But this thread isn't about those things.

It's about women reaping what they sowed with the #metoo movement.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Perfect examples of men demeaning women because of who they have slept within their personal lives and using it to put them down. Telling them that they are not worthy if they don't have the courage at the time of the rape to report it so they are again deficient. If you report it your a **** and it is only your word against his but likely you were just sleeping your way to the top.

Perfect examples of why women have not reported. You could not win either way.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Perfect examples of men demeaning women because of who they have slept within their personal lives and using it to put them down. Telling them that they are not worthy if they don't have the courage at the time of the rape to report it so they are again deficient. If you report it your a **** and it is only your word against his but likely you were just sleeping your way to the top.
> 
> Perfect examples of why women have not reported. You could not win either way.


You seem so confused.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Courage is making a difference in the calculus of the attacked and the attacker. Proof and a court of law does that.
> 
> Courage is not singing in a a choir hiding behind a hashtag.
> 
> I don't have to die on a beach to know those young men had courage. I don't have to be raped to know it takes courage to bring the attacker to justice.


You don't have a clue what courage means to a woman (and men as well) that have been raped/sexually assaulted. Especially years ago, when society wasn't as accepting. 

What if you don't know your attacker? What if you're 12, and don't know if your parents will support or blame you? What if your attacker is your boss, you need the job, and he tells you he'll blackball you in your field? What if you're scared and just tuck the absolute violation of your mind and body away? The shame, blame, and terror that it could happen again is overwhelming.

The hashtag #MeToo gave women the hope and courage to confront their attackers and it worked. Look at all the powerful men that abused women and have lost everything. Validation is everything.

You also don't have a clue of the courage needed to storm the beaches at Normandy. I don't, no one does, unless they were there, and it's rather disgusting to use very young dead men to try to prove a point. I believe this is the second time in the last few weeks you've used the deaths of those good young men.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Perfect examples of men demeaning women because of who they have slept within their personal lives and using it to put them down.


You seem to be overreacting again, and still just basically repeating yourself.



Irish Pixie said:


> *You don't have a clue* what courage means to a woman (and men as well) that have been raped/sexually assaulted. Especially years ago, when society wasn't as accepting.


This thread isn't about rape.
It's about women *missing opportunities in business* because of #metoo.

https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/men-are-afraid-to-mentor-women-after-metoo.596256/


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> You don't have a clue what courage means to a woman (and men as well) that have been raped/sexually assaulted. Especially years ago, when society wasn't as accepting.
> 
> What if you don't know your attacker? What if you're 12, and don't know if your parents will support or blame you? What if your attacker is your boss, you need the job, and he tells you he'll blackball you in your field? What if you're scared and just tuck the absolute violation of your mind and body away? The shame, blame, and terror that it could happen again is overwhelming.
> 
> ...


Courage is acting when the time calls for it.

Regret, revenge, and bitterness are not courage.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Yes it addresses a power women have that men generally do not.
> We won’t speak about it.


Only on your mind.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Courage is standing up and telling what happened to you, no matter when you do it and how many people with put you down because of their judgment of when and how you did it.

#metoo

It obvious from this thread that all those children molested in the churches must have had no courage and are judged deficient because they did not report it when it happened.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Courage is acting when the time calls for it.
> 
> Regret, revenge, and bitterness are not courage.


You don't get to decide what is courage for anyone but yourself. You don't get to decide when it's the right time for another person to come forward, if at all. Your job as a decent human being is to not abuse, to intervene when you see someone being abused, and realize their pain, shame, violation, guilt is theirs and theirs alone. Don't judge. 

Regret (this is beneath a decent human being), revenge (justice/validation), and bitterness (there is probably bitterness toward the person that shattered your world when they violated your mind, body, and soul). Courage is getting up day after day knowing that the man that shattered your soul is still out there, and living anyway.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It obvious from this thread that all those *children molested in the churches* must have had no courage and are judged deficient because they did not report it when it happened.


Wrong again. 
That also has nothing to do with the real topic:

https://www.homesteadingtoday.com/threads/men-are-afraid-to-mentor-women-after-metoo.596256/


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

An acquaintance of mine is going through a crap situation right now due to this very thing. A young lady in his office came in one morning and his first interaction with her was to comment on her shoes, his words were, "Wow, my wife would love those shoes, where'd you get them, they look great." It was said in the office in front of about six witnesses ant 9 AM. By 1130 he was in HR with a complaint against him for sexual harassment. It has turned into a nightmare, because the woman swears she was harassed and felt threatened. Every witness has filed their statement as to what happened, and HR rep has told my friend that she doesn't see where he did anything wrong, but the young lady is threatening a lawsuit if he is not terminated. 

This is the problem. Seth


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> Men will choose to have a third party in attendance to forestall bogus claims.
> 
> Some women are simply making it more difficult for other women.
> 
> Maybe it is simply revenge for you @Irish Pixie


Perhaps it's just guilt and justification for you, @HDRider ?


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Why is it that even though I am responding to what others have posted, I am the only one that keeps getting told that I am off topic? Selective judgment. Very on point.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Seth said:


> An acquaintance of mine is going through a crap situation right now due to this very thing. A young lady in his office came in one morning and his first interaction with her was to comment on her shoes, his words were, "Wow, my wife would love those shoes, where'd you get them, they look great." It was said in the office in front of about six witnesses ant 9 AM. By 1130 he was in HR with a complaint against him for sexual harassment. It has turned into a nightmare, because the woman swears she was harassed and felt threatened. Every witness has filed their statement as to what happened, and HR rep has told my friend that she doesn't see where he did anything wrong, but the young lady is threatening a lawsuit if he is not terminated.
> 
> This is the problem. Seth


If there was nothing else said or done by the acquaintance and woman in question, that is not sexual harassment. HR needs to stand up and support the acquaintance.

This type of situation helps no one.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> *You don't get to decide* what is courage for anyone but yourself.





painterswife said:


> *Courage is* standing up and telling what happened to you, no matter when you do it and how many people with put you down because of their judgment of when and how you did it.





Irish Pixie said:


> *Courage is* getting up day after day knowing that the man that shattered your soul is still out there, and living anyway.





Irish Pixie said:


> *Don't judge*.





Irish Pixie said:


> *You also don't have a clue* of the courage needed to storm the beaches at Normandy. I don't, no one does, unless they were there, and *it's rather disgusting *to use very young dead men to try to prove a point.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Why is it that even though I am responding to what others have posted, *I am the only one* that keeps getting told that I am off topic? Selective judgment. Very on point.


You're not the "only one" 
I highlighted your comments to make it easy to understand.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> If there was nothing else said or done by the acquaintance and woman in question, that is not sexual harassment. HR needs to stand up and support the acquaintance.
> 
> This type of situation helps no one.


It's a direct result of #metoo.


----------



## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> If there was nothing else said or done by the acquaintance and woman in question, that is not sexual harassment. HR needs to stand up and support the acquaintance.
> 
> This type of situation helps no one.



I agree, however, the prevailing climate today is geared toward believing every accusation and reacting. I do not know this guy very well, he and his wife are customers of mine (bought a nice Zturn mower from me, so I cannot really say what kind of guy he is). I heard the story from a guy I know and trust that works in the same office.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Seth said:


> I agree, however, the prevailing climate today is geared toward believing every accusation and reacting. I do not know this guy very well, he and his wife are customers of mine (bought a nice Zturn mower from me, so I cannot really say what kind of guy he is). I heard the story from a guy I know and trust that works in the same office.


Yes because of #metoo accusers are taken more seriously. That is a good thing. Those that use it for their own nefarious purposes are damaging. Things bounce too far the other way. I can't, however, find anything wrong with the real good that #metoo is doing for people that have been sexually assaulted in the past and are now speaking up.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Seth said:


> I agree, however, the prevailing climate today is geared toward believing every accusation and reacting. I do not know this guy very well, he and his wife are customers of mine (bought a nice Zturn mower from me, so I cannot really say what kind of guy he is). I heard the story from a guy I know and trust that works in the same office.


Yes. The prevailing climate is supposed to be listen to women, and act accordingly. There is substantial proof that the woman, who may have felt harassed, was not sexually harassed.


----------



## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

painterswife said:


> Yes because of #metoo accusers are taken more seriously. That is a good thing. Those that use it for their own nefarious purposes are damaging. Things bounce too far the other way. I can't, however, find anything wrong with the real good that #metoo is doing for people that have been sexually assaulted in the past and are now speaking up.


I agree.



Irish Pixie said:


> Yes. The prevailing climate is supposed to be listen to women, and act accordingly. There is substantial proof that the woman, who may have felt harassed, was not sexually harassed.


How would we convince someone who FELT harassed that she hasn't been harassed? That's the million $$$ question. Either she goes on to think it was swept under the rug and she's been marginalized, or a man loses his career.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> *I can't, however, find anything wrong* with the real good that #metoo is doing for people that have been sexually assaulted in the past and are now speaking up.


Then maybe you didn't read the article in the OP.
It explains it quite well.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Seth said:


> How would we convince someone who FELT harassed that she hasn't been harassed? That's the million $$$ question. Either she goes on to think it was swept under the rug and she's been marginalized, or a man loses his career.


The same way we convince men that think constantly asking a female work colleague out, that they can't do that. Education.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Seth said:


> I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> How would we convince someone who FELT harassed that she hasn't been harassed? That's the million $$$ question. Either she goes on to think it was swept under the rug and she's been marginalized, or a man loses his career.


A solid criteria of sexual harassment must be developed, just like any other harassment in the work place.

ETA: If she felt she was sexually harassed, but it didn't meet the criteria, she probably will think it was swept under the rug. That's going to happen. In this case, there are six other people that reiterated what the acquaintance said, that information should be weighed against the set criteria, and a determination made. If she doesn't like the determination she has the choice of filing a lawsuit.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Seth said:


> How would we convince someone who FELT harassed that she hasn't been harassed?


You can't, which is the root of the problem.
Some love playing the role of "victim" and will do so at every opportunity.

Businesses now will do stupid things to appear politically correct, and if that means firing someone based on a vague allegation, they won't hesitate.

That's precisely why men are starting to avoid them altogether in the workplace, and it will end up hurting the women more than the men.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Perhaps it's just guilt and justification for you, @HDRider ?


I have zero guilt. You lose on reason, and so you stoop this. Sad.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You can't, which is the root of the problem.
> Some love playing the role of "victim" and will do so at every opportunity.
> 
> Businesses now will do stupid things to appear politically correct, and if that means firing someone based on a vague allegation, they won't hesitate.
> ...


It is hysteria.


----------



## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

Mish said:


> So only be around rabid dogs while there are other people present to help watch the dog. Don't tease the rabid dog. Don't play with the rabid dog. Treat it with respect and keep your distance.
> 
> It's not rocket science.


Wait....who is the rabid dog in this scenario....the man or the woman.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I have zero guilt. You lose on reason, and so you stoop this. Sad.


I was responding in kind to disgustingness you spewed at me, and your accusation of false sexual assault that has since been been deleted. Who knows what your guilt is, if any. 



HDRider said:


> Men will choose to have a third party in attendance to forestall bogus claims.
> 
> Some women are simply making it more difficult for other women.
> 
> *Maybe it is simply revenge for you @Irish Pixie*


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> It is hysteria.


I think social media would say it's "trending".
Some do seem to get hysterical over every little thing though.


----------



## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Seth, reminds me of a situation of my own. Teaching school, lunch in workroom, 6 or 8 witnesses. A young woman teacher sat in front of me with an oversized men's shirt on. Top 3 buttons open. I looked up from my lunch, saw a vast amount of skin and foundation garment and told her to button her shirt. She went to principal and charged me with sexual harassment. Principal investigated. Talked to all who were present. The other women in the room were the ones who got me exonerated.

Funny thing, about 5 years later, I retired. That same young teacher told me she hated me leaving because I was the only teacher in the school that would still talk to her.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I think social media would say it's "trending".
> Some do seem to get hysterical over every little thing though.


I think "trending" on twitter is hysteria


----------



## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> And I understand this but even if she was protesting green beans with a sex ban she is also one of the main faces of Metoo. She is implying that women have power over men to make them toe the line. I have nothing against her but I think she was wrong for that.
> 
> People only have power over you if you give it to them.


 funniest part about it is shes only punishing the guys that agree with her already. Why? Because they arent doing enough to punish the people that disagree with her. Honestly i dont know the whole story behind it. I dont have twitter FB or watch tv news.


----------



## dmm1976 (Oct 29, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> Not exactly what you said. Depends on if you are talking about recorded history or hidden history.


Isnt it tricky though? History gets rewritten all the time. People change. Memories are not factual. Some are complete fabrications of our subconcious.


----------



## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

dmm1976 said:


> funniest part about it is shes only punishing the guys that agree with her already. Why? Because they arent doing enough to punish the people that disagree with her. Honestly i dont know the whole story behind it. I dont have twitter FB or watch tv news.


And she is also trying to punish the women who agree with her. The women that don't won't listen to her anyway. 

She just didn't think that one through all the way and then doubled on it again.


----------



## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

dmm, love that last sentence


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Good morning. I am on the way to a cabin in the Ozarks. No TV. No internet. No phone unless I walk up the hill. 

I think the media is deliberately flinging the excrement of society (and the world) to get ratings. This has already been discussed. 

Spend a day or a week without thinking about the media’s messages. 

Almost all of it has NO influence on your life unless you let it.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> This type of situation helps no one.


 Really ?
Then why does it exist ?

I does help someone 
I think some of the men here See who and understand it and others. Here refuse to see it


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Good morning. I am on the way to a cabin in the Ozarks. No TV. No internet. No phone unless I walk up the hill.
> 
> I think the media is deliberately flinging the excrement of society (and the world) to get ratings. This has already been discussed.
> 
> ...


We don’t alway agree , perhaps we seldom do. But this is the stuff. That leaves me in. No doubt as to your wisdom.


----------



## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

Women are designed to maneuver and seek status in society via softer measures than the typical male targets of group achievement and conquest. With modern society assigning status to you based on your level of victimhood, problems like this are inevitable. On the flip-side, abuse is unacceptable and we want people feeling empowered to stand up for themselves in personal situations and the courts if necessary... Is the solution segregating the workplace? Is a better solution to begin to direct women away from the workplace and back into the home? Maybe. That would certainly boost wages for men and possibly be a good first step towards getting us out of this death spiral of a negative birthrate and crumbling culture.

I listen to a bit of Australian media and there was a fellow recently that stopped to help a young girl who was having car trouble and had his life destroyed (marriage fell apart, lost friends etc) with false accusations and only avoided jail in the end because nearby surveillance video surfaced showing he was a gentleman the whole time. None of the above workplace measures would have protected this young man and I can't help but wonder how many men in similar situations didn't have the luck to have a camera trained on them and ended up being labeled predators for the rest of their lives. Is the solution then to stop helping women stranded on the side of the road?

Maybe we need cameras covering everyone everywhere at all times. We do have the technology to archive our entire lives and maybe that is the only real solution.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes. The prevailing climate is supposed to be listen to women, and act accordingly. There is substantial proof that the woman, who may have felt harassed, was not sexually harassed.


 But this instance can be correctly handled ONLY be cause it was promptly reported and handled 
In a year or two everyone but the offended would have forgot about it in 20 years tThe witnesses not only will have for got it but may well be dead and forgotten themselves while the victim. May have built it far larger in her mind.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> But this instance can be correctly handled ONLY be cause it was promptly reported and handled
> In a year or two everyone but the offended would have forgot about it in 20 years tThe witnesses not only will have for got it but may well be dead and forgotten themselves while the victim. May have built it far larger in her mind.


It happened in the open. Most of the time it happens where no one can see it. Women knew that the man would be believed over them and they would be called names, denigrated, lose jobs, lose advancement possibilities. Yes some make false accusations but in my experience, that is only a very small portion of what really happens.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Irish Pixie said: ↑
> Yes. The prevailing climate is supposed to be listen to women, and act accordingly.


There's no logical reason to give a woman more credibility than a man.
The "prevailing climate" is just trial by social media, presided over by Social Justice Warriors.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> Yes some make false accusations but in my experience, that is only a very small portion of what really happens.


 How much experience do you have ?
What is your sample size.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> You don't have a clue what courage means to a woman (and men as well) that have been raped/sexually assaulted. Especially years ago, when society wasn't as accepting.
> 
> What if you don't know your attacker? What if you're 12, and don't know if your parents will support or blame you? What if your attacker is your boss, you need the job, and he tells you he'll blackball you in your field? What if you're scared and just tuck the absolute violation of your mind and body away? The shame, blame, and terror that it could happen again is overwhelming.
> 
> ...


I don't think metoo has been about children who were raped but even today, few see justice because they are deemed poor witnesses. 

There are laws to protect women from being blackballed for reporting sexual assault, which is part of the progress we've made by being strong and I do feel we have more work ahead of us but the problem I have is that trial by media is nothing more than sanctioned slander. 

At one point, metoo had so much momentum that actors lost jobs and awards with nothing more than a twitter hate campaign. No evidence, no judge, no jury, no day in court and in my opinion, that's not any more right than blackballing women for reporting sexual harassment. 

Cosby and Weinstein should be tried but they needed to be tried in a courtroom but what about those who's lives have been damaged because because of a twitter storm based on abiguous rumours? The woman who was outed by media for an issue with Justin Trudeau, did not want to be outed. Does metoo and the media, have the right to leave a woman's life in tatters for the cause?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Without the media, these women may have never come forward and we may not be moving forward to solve the system that allowed women to be so easily harassed. There is good and bad in reporting but if not for the media those big companies and even the House and the Senates boys club would still be paying off women and then repeating the bad behavior. The system is not perfect but it is moving in the right direction more than it is not.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

#MeToo is about rape/sexual assault of any type and sexual harassment of all females of any age. Infants are raped, it's doesn't matter the age. It's less about justice than it is telling her experience and finally being validated, many (most?) of the women in the beginning of #MeToo came forward knowing they wouldn't get justice, but did it anyway.

Cosby was tried for his rape of Andrea Constand in 2018, and sent to prison. He'll be there barring early release for 3-10 years, unless he dies incarcerated. Weinstein's rape trial has been postponed until September 2019. Absolutely not a trial by media for either one.

No. I don't think a woman should be outed. I don't think anyone should be forced to do something without their consent.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Seth said:


> An acquaintance of mine is going through a crap situation right now due to this very thing. A young lady in his office came in one morning and his first interaction with her was to comment on her shoes, his words were, "Wow, my wife would love those shoes, where'd you get them, they look great." It was said in the office in front of about six witnesses ant 9 AM. By 1130 he was in HR with a complaint against him for sexual harassment. It has turned into a nightmare, because the woman swears she was harassed and felt threatened. Every witness has filed their statement as to what happened, and HR rep has told my friend that she doesn't see where he did anything wrong, but the young lady is threatening a lawsuit if he is not terminated.
> 
> This is the problem. Seth


Why would HR fear a lawsuit?
With that kind of evidence she has no case.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It's a direct result of #metoo.


I disagree, she sounds like she would do this type of thing regardless.


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## Seth (Dec 3, 2012)

coolrunnin said:


> Why would HR fear a lawsuit?
> With that kind of evidence she has no case.



Bad publicity


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I completely understand that. Why voluntarily put yourself in jeopardy? Any slip of the tongue, joke, or accidental elbow bump is cause for accusations.
> 
> The Me 2 folks had some valid complaints, but 50% of women are of lower than average intelligence. The dingbats are creating unintended consequences.


. 

Oh I love you Alice in TX/MO...you are my spirit person. I agree 100%. I've told my sons to be careful around women or at least find some like their mother who doesn't have thin skin and can hold her own.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Thank you, hiddensprings.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I wish that my opinion, belief, and views were the best for everyone as some seem so vehemently to believe. Black and white, rather than varying shades of grey, would make life so much easier. Alas, everyone's experience is just different.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Without the media, these women may have never come forward and we may not be *moving forward* to solve the system that allowed women to be so easily harassed.


They aren't all "moving forward" as noted in the OP.
It's actually holding some back.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> coolrunnin said: ↑
> Why would HR fear a lawsuit?
> With that kind of evidence she has no case.


Lack of evidence doesn't prevent the filing of lawsuits and it's often easier for companies to pay settlements than to fight in court.

Women know that, and they know they can get away with lies.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> They aren't all "moving forward" as noted in the OP.
> It's actually holding some back.


No problem women will just go around. They have before and they will again. Some short term pain will not stop them. Good men know that and will work with them.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

painterswife said:


> No problem women will just go around. They have before and they will again. Some short term pain will not stop them. Good men know that and will work with them.


According to some there aren't any "good men". At least not alive.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> *No problem* women will just go around. They have before and they will again. Some short term pain will not stop them. Good men know that and will work with them.


Glad to hear there's "no problem".
Maybe you should tell those who did the OP study that actually *found* problems.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> There's no logical reason to give a woman more credibility than a man.
> The "prevailing climate" is just trial by social media, presided over by Social Justice Warriors.


Using the criteria of 60+ years ago decried by so called "Culture Warriors". Women have rights, one of them is the right not to be sexually harassed. It may have been common, even accepted by some back in the day, it's not now.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Using the criteria of 60+ years ago decried by so called "Culture Warriors". Women have rights, *one of them is the right not to be sexually harassed.* It may have been common, even accepted by some back in the day, it's not now.


Good luck with that. So far women haven't even been able to define it clearly, much less get it established as a right, then there's that whole fraternization with the enemy thing! 

Btw, I like the concept of "Medicare for none"..... It's a step in the right direction.


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## Grey Mare (Jun 28, 2013)

Wow....this thread went sideways fast! I have to say, I spent 2 weeks with a friend who is a huge feminist and we had some heated "discussions" while she was here visiting. 

I am not afraid of men. I worked in fire stations that where predominately men, they were crude, they were sometimes rude, colorful stories and in the end, knew that they had my back when it mattered. I didn't get all huffy or offended at words...yes, words. I was called "NavaHO" and they got back as good as they gave from me. Many woman now a days get their panties stuck and become cranky, lighten up. 

I shoot...again, a predominately male sport. I can hold my own, and I love a lot of the shooters as good friends and they come over to shoot with my husband. I am not going to sit and think that every guy who says something crude, who said something in a locker room in their youth should go to jail or is out to harm a woman or whatever else label you wish to put on it. 

Men have a reason to be weary of woman....I feel sorry for half of them who have had a woman scream rape, or gotten pregnant to trap them, levied charges against them that turn out to be false because that woman had an issue with that man, etc....personally, I would much rather have a male friend than a female, as they aren't as back stabbing, vindictive, and mean spirited.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Grey Mare said:


> Wow....this thread went sideways fast! I have to say, I spent 2 weeks with a friend who is a huge feminist and we had some heated "discussions" while she was here visiting.
> 
> I am not afraid of men. I worked in fire stations that where predominately men, they were crude, they were sometimes rude, colorful stories and in the end, knew that they had my back when it mattered. I didn't get all huffy or offended at words...yes, words. I was called "NavaHO" and they got back as good as they gave from me. Many woman now a days get their panties stuck and become cranky, lighten up.
> 
> ...


Do you think other women should put up with being sexually assaulted?


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## Grey Mare (Jun 28, 2013)

What I am saying Painters Wife is how often is it truly sexual harassment and not some woman with her nose bent out of shape? True sexual harassment no....but I have seen more woman scream it and they were just 
"delicate flowers" who didn't have the sense god gave them!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Grey Mare said:


> What I am saying Painters Wife is how often is it truly sexual harassment and not some woman with her nose bent out of shape? True sexual harassment no....but I have seen more woman scream it and they were just
> "delicate flowers" who didn't have the sense god gave them!


You have experience working in professions where men are the majority. I have as well. You cope well with the treatment by them that crosses the line in the work place. I have as well.

At what point is it all right for that behavior to continue? Up to where you personally can handle it? Why should it happen in the first place?


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## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

Wow, this thread has degenerated into a festival of button-pushing and stick-poking. Here's an effort to head back to the original subject, the loss of mentoring opportunities.

I fully believe that many male managers are more nervous about mentoring etc. (and some of them should be), but I also believe that most of the hyper-concern is a short term phenomenon. Once everything normalizes a bit, managers will unclench and find appropriate ways to provide mentoring and other contact.

For my own part, I have always had pretty exemplary behaviour with co-workers and clients, and haven't ever been accused of something in this vein, but nonetheless I have modified some practices out of caution.

1. I used to occasionally meet a client in their home. That's no longer an option for me.

2. When on the road for work, at a conference or such, I won't go to a meeting in a co-workers hotel room. Ever. Or expect them to meet me in mine. Coffee shop or lobby.

3. I haven't been a drinking man for many years, but going drinking with junior employees would definitely be out. Lunch is fine, after-work drinks that slide into a "social evening" is just a mine field.

4. I have never been very prone to comment on someone else's appearance, but now I just avoid it as a general rule. Small chance of a problem, no discernable upside, why bother?

This standard of behaviour isn't that onerous. I don't think it will prevent me from being helpful to my female co-workers. Its just a bit of an adjustment is all.


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## Grey Mare (Jun 28, 2013)

painterswife said:


> You have experience working in professions where men are the majority. I have as well. You cope well with the treatment by them that crosses the line in the work place. I have as well.
> 
> At what point is it all right for that behavior to continue? Up to where you personally can handle it? Why should it happen in the first place?


Some men are going to be pigs, who knows why they have to act like that but they do. I am saying that there is too many things being pointed at as sexual harassment when it was nothing more than the woman being vindictive or wanting to get the man back is all. 

As for trivializing it...I was not talking about what happened to her nor was I going to bring it up.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Grey Mare said:


> Some men are going to be pigs, who knows why they have to act like that but they do. I am saying that there is too many things being pointed at as sexual harassment when it was nothing more than the woman being vindictive or wanting to get the man back is all.
> 
> As for trivializing it...I was not talking about what happened to her nor was I going to bring it up.


Vindictive women or men are wrong. That happened before and will continue to happen. Telling other people what they should be able to handle is trivializing their sexual assault or sexual harassment experience. I don't want to handle that crap. I don't want anyone to have to handle that crap. Women trivializing other women's way of dealing with it is counterproductive and is not moving the entire situation forward for all.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

This is gone well past GC limits and entering a member's child into discussion is unacceptable.


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