# SOS question



## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

I must admit I know nothing about energy, besides using it, but installing, etc. Nope. Same goes for DH. 
I have a question I hope someone can answer. How much would it cost to have one solar panel installed on a barn roof so there would be lights to switch on, two by the animal stalls, two upstairs in the hayloft, and one each in a couple of back rooms that we use for farm stuff storage. I saw that Harbor freight sells kits for 300 dollars. An Amish wants $1900 to do the whole thing. Is that too high? It is supposed to take two days to install. 
Thank you for any enlightenment coming my way.

.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

What specifications and equipment did the Amish guy give you for what he was putting in ? That's the only way to tell if 1900 is a good price or not.

The 300 Harbor Freight "kit" isn't much of a kit....it's only 45w of panels ( which is very little) and cheapie charge controller.

From the description:

_The solar panel kit comes with three 15 watt solar panels - simply connect the solar panels to *your own 12 volt DC storage battery*, and then use at least a 300 watt power inverter *(sold separately)* to power your 120 volt AC appliances anywhere._

You must answer these questions for anyone to give you a decent answer:


1. Exactly HOW many lights are you going to want ?

2. What wattage of each light ?

3. What is the voltage of each light ? ( 120v, or is 12v ok ?

4. How long to you plan to have the lights on each day ?

5. How many days would you like to be able to go without the sun shining, and you continue to use the lights ( has to do with number/size of batteries )


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Im guessing his panel is much better than the HF,need to know what you are getting to answer.Inverter or 12 volt,battery,what kind?

Hard to say otherwise but if its inverter,decent batt and a nice panel installed that could be a fair price easily.


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

It is supposed to be a very simple system that charges the battery, and the battery supplies the power to the lights. No inverter involved. DH says it is a 12 volt system, the battery is a marine battery, whatever that is. . He had it installed over a year ago. It has never worked. 
we need/use the lights,( two lightbulbs, the curly cew ones that are, I think 13 watt), in the aninmal part, about half an hr a day in winter. (Right now we do not even turn a light on every day). I need a light for five minutes in the hayloft to throw hay down into the mangers, same energy saving bulbs there,two of them. I use one light in the storage room where the stairs are, to walk up the stairs to the loft. Nobody does much in the barn at night. Like I said, half an hr. so we can find our way around. I did not know how much my dear hubbes paid and almost fell off the chair when I found out the other day. Then we went to harbor freight and they have a kit for 179.99. That is why I am posting, I think that is very expensive light, especially since it does not work and never has. We are having a fight with the Amish man who installed it. Every so often, my DH runs an extension cord through the barn window and charges the battery. The system has not worked since it was installed. And that was over a year ago. Thank you for replying. I appreciate it.


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

First of all, the lights and switch's you are using , need to be completely independent from any and all house wiring. The 12v is dc current and the house would be ac current. It is like driving you car on the ocean should they get mixed. At this point since you only need it to power a couple of lights, you would need only one decent 12 volt solar panel , from 60 -120 watts. Wire down to a small charge controller, which in turn , go to the storage battery system. Now, you would need to run wire to the switch's and then on to the light bulbs. The "curly" light bulb is again the wrong bulb as it is ac like in your house. You would need to buy either marine 12v dc light bulbs or sometimes you can get them at your local auto parts store. You can also get 12 volt fluorescent fixtures fairly cheap


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

I am going to go out on a limb here, but you need to change the light bulbs right away. Maybe all you need to do. 


Make sure the bulbs are 12VOLT DC only !!!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Edit-what Nadja said too....

OK,so you have a panel? You need to put your voltmeter to the 2 wires coming out and see what the voltage is.Should be somewhere between 17-21 volts if a 12 volt panel

These wires should be going to the charge controller.Test there.

Then you need to test the 2 wires coming out from the charge controller and see what the voltage is coming out,should be around 13.2-14.4 volts.

Then the battery itself should be about 12.7 or 12.8

click to enlarge pics....
So here is what I have *in full sun* pretty much....
1- I check the solar output wires,the 2 on my far left on this controller,its 18.4 volts....




2- I check the controller output,its the two wires heading to the battery,its 14.1-14.2.....



3- Then I check at the battery,its also 14.1 so that looks good....the charge from the controller is reaching the batteries

4- After the sun goes down check battery again,its should be 12.7 volts or better if battery good.You let the battery rest a few hours or overnight to dissipate the 'surface charge' which gives false high readings... and check
My batteries are at 12.9,a little surface charge remains,as soon as a load applied it drops to 12.7-12.8 volts.




Thats all there is to it.

If controller is bad a good one can be had for 50 bucks,and if battery is bad a new deep cycle marine can be had for what,60 bucks or so? I havent looked lately.Marine isnt the best choice either,but if you decide to fix system people will offer advice on a good battery.

You can fix your system for 175.00 or less and be waaaay ahead on quality of the HF system.

Can you check those and get back to us,pictures of panel,controller and battery?


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

Nice pic's Mightybooboo. Great educational ones for sure. I will post some pictures on one of my web sites and insert them here. I'll try !


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Here are some sources of 12 volt LED lightbulbs that screw into regular style lamps.Beware,they take a MONTH to deliver but prices are good.

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/e27-6w-8000k-96-led-white-light-lamp-bulb-grey-dc-12v-45946

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/e27-5w-8000k-78-led-white-light-lamp-bulb-white-dc-12v-45944

or these,Ive used them before,very bright!
http://www.amazon.com/12-Volt-Screw-Light-Bulb/dp/B000ALEM6W/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

or these,not very well rated,maybe nadja is right,you have a bulb issue?
http://www.amazon.com/Camco-41313-12V-15W-Fluorescent-Light/dp/B000EDSSJS/ref=pd_sim_auto_1


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## Fowler (Jul 8, 2008)

Tabitha said:


> I must admit I know nothing about energy, besides using it, but installing, etc. Nope. Same goes for DH.
> I have a question I hope someone can answer. How much would it cost to have one solar panel installed on a barn roof so there would be lights to switch on, two by the animal stalls, two upstairs in the hayloft, and one each in a couple of back rooms that we use for farm stuff storage. I saw that Harbor freight sells kits for 300 dollars. An Amish wants $1900 to do the whole thing. Is that too high? It is supposed to take two days to install.
> Thank you for any enlightenment coming my way.
> 
> .


What do Amish know about solar panels?...sorry It made me laugh.ound:

I'm sure they do.:bored:


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

I am not in the market for a HF system. I just saw it and noticed the low price and compared it to the high price DH paid. 

I want to find out if the price of $1900 is realistic for a 12v system that involves a few lightbulbs, a marine battery, no inverter. We are using the light bulbs the installer recommended. The wiring in the barn has nothing to do with the wiring of the house. There is no connection whatsoever. The barn is off to itself, to charge the battery there DH has to run a couple of long extension cords to the barn. Of course we have told the installer, an Amish guy, a dozen times to please come and fix it, only he won't. 
I find this question a lot more complex than I anticipated. I thought there would be a simple quote. 
The lights work as long as the battery is charged, as soon as it is drained, they quit working, (of course). The solar panel on the roof does not charge up the battery. This is the crux of the technical problem, but I am still wondering how much does it cost to have a simple system like ours installed. If someone has an idea, how much is a reasonable price? I am a tad upset because we paid a lot of money for a bunch of aggravation. Thanks for all the input. 
Mighty booboo, thanks for the trouble you went to. I can see it already, I have to do some studying.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Tabitha,dont let it scare you,if hubby has any mechanical Ability at all this is SIMPLE,just like you said.

If panel is a name brand its almost certain the problem is the controller,to change that is a 50 dollar part and screw on 2 wires from the panel,and 2 wires to the battery,its extremely simple.THATS IT,screw on 4 wires.

Just stick the volt meter to the panel wires,if good,and we know battery and rest of system works almost for sure its a failed controller,there are some really BAD controllers out there.

Take a look at this.....its most likely all you need,45 bucks

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/controller-folder/sunsaver10.html


http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/support/library/SS.IOM.01.EN.pdf
Look at page 5-6,all you do is hook the wires from the panel to it,and the wires from the battery to it.
You hook up 1,2 to battery,3,4 wires from panel in that order,5 and 6 ignore.

If you decide to fix it,just check those voltages like I show,SIMPLE,if panel is good then check controller output,bet money its dead.So many crummy controllers out there,this morningstar is the small system workhorse,world class quality and CHEAP because the new model has come out,this model is plenty good for your installation.People here will talk you through *each wire step by step* if you want to fix it.

About the 1900,depends on panel,mounts,controller,battery and how much wiring/type of wire he did/parts and labor to say if fair price or not,without knowing the specifics of installation just cant say,and Im sure the installers here would agree.

also if interested look at this,its me hooking up a system in pics,doesnt get much simpler than that,ignore inverter part and multi panel hookup,wont apply to you,yours is even simpler.Ignore my costs too,this is all craigslist used good deal parts.

http://eastcherokee.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=electricgaswoodoil&action=display&thread=3323


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

If you dont have a voltmeter go to HF and just get a cheapo that does dc,

While waiting for that do this.....

Check back of panel and make sure wires are intact.Then follow wires from there to controller and look for any fuses and check they are good.

Then follow controller wires to battery and make sure they are intact and follow those runs and check for fuses and see if they are blown.

Would be cool if all its is is a disconnected or loose wire or blown fuse.

If I had a 1900 dollar investment I sure would attempt to fix it on the cheap,and if the panel is good and battery will take a charge and lights work its a cheap fix indeed.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

This is the entire wiring,just the 2 panel wires to controller and 2 from controller to battery,thats it!OK,for those who didnt read whole thread I did stick an automotive fuse inline on a panel wire and a battery wire.


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## Tabitha (Apr 10, 2006)

thank you, I am sure DH can manage that, but he will have to climb on the barn roof. Maybe my original post was misleading. 

so are almost 2000 dollars fair market value for this kind of set up? 

I have no idea why DH hired this amish to do this. Maybe because he did not think he could do it himself.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Tabitha said:


> thank you, I am sure DH can manage that, but he will have to climb on the barn roof. Maybe my original post was misleading.
> 
> so are almost 2000 dollars fair market value for this kind of set up?
> 
> I have no idea why DH hired this amish to do this. Maybe because he did not think he could do it himself.


Maybe,I guestimated a 180 watt or so system the parts were going to be around 1200 or so new back in July 2009,with the wiring and labor and bulbs at 700 I dont think he is out of line but the installers here know the costs to do it for a living,I dont.And parts cost,not sure what you have....but the more I think about it that may have been a fair price depending on your panel.Unless you got junk and a tiny panel Im going to say....fair price.IMO,FWIW.And I dont do this professionally,just a schmuck who plays with it.

Comparing the HF to any other system cant be done,that stuff is cheapo cheap cheap quality.Crummiest built panels Ive ever seen BY A LONG SHOT,a charge controller that doesnt work,no battery,no wiring/switches like you got....apples and oranges.

The *only *thing HF system beats is no system at all,and thats only for a while at that.It is the bottom of the barrel,sorry you folks who own one but thats true.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Pictures would be worth their weight in gold on this if you are able to do them


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## sandc (Apr 26, 2010)

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet.

Go up and clean off your panel(s)

A barnyard can get pretty dusty and the power from your panels can be drastically reduced once they get dirty. I have been out to look at several systems recently that the owners were complaining about and they were just dirty.

One thing you might look at for a barn if you are needing loft lighting during daylight hours only would be a solatube. I love them. We installed 36 of them into an indoor horse arena 
in May and when I followed up with the owner she said that based on her last two electric bills they would pay for themselves in 10 months


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## jwal10 (Jun 5, 2010)

nadja said:


> The "curly" light bulb is again the wrong bulb as it is ac like in your house. You would need to buy either marine 12v dc light bulbs or sometimes you can get them at your local auto parts store. You can also get 12 volt fluorescent fixtures fairly cheap


They do make these, I have used them....James

http://www.amazon.com/Camco-41313-12V-15W-Fluorescent-Light/dp/B000EDSSJS/ref=pd_sim_auto_1


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

Jwal10. Well , I stand corrected sir. I guess it is never to late to teach an old dog new tricks afterall. !


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## roachhill (Jul 8, 2009)

I'm suprised he installed a marine deep cycle and not a couple golf cart batteries, they are a much better choice. I've been using 12 volt CF light bulbs for a little while now and have been pretty happy with them, those LED lights look pretty good though, I may have to try them.


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