# Goat Milk and Human Babies



## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

My Brothers and i were raised on a mix of Goats milk and Moms milk when we were little, but i dont have any working personal knolage on this other than just my mom and grandparents saying so

if someone needed to bottle feed their infant would goats milk be as good as i would think it is to feed a human baby? 

i absolutly HATE the smell of regergitated Formula when babies spit up, is it better with Goats Milk? 

also if anyone is near Montgomery AL and has Milk Goats how much do you sell it for, a friend of mine is haveing to bottle feed their son and spending ALOT on formula, and i was just thinking if i could find a good place to get goats milk for them at a decent price per gallen it would be better for the baby.


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## delphinium (Feb 4, 2006)

As an infant I was allergic to cow's milk, so was raised on goat milk. I don't remember anything other than my mother grumbling about the high cost.


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## diamonds (Sep 14, 2006)

I know of people who used goats milk on their infants. I know that some doctors recommend it if an infant has trouble with formula even in todays society. I would have her ask her pediatrician but I doubt if he would object.I would also pasteurize the milk.


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## Ark (Oct 5, 2004)

diamonds said:


> I would have her ask her pediatrician but I doubt if he would object.I would also pasteurize the milk.


I doubt if the pediatrician would _approve_!  

UNLESS, they are very knowledgeable about raw milk. 

I'd suggest they do their own research and make up their own minds, and not rely on some doctor's OPINION. 

That said, I supply my sister with raw goat milk for her kids, (she has 4 kids, age 4 and under) and they do great on it. 

ALSO, I have two more friends with babies who give them raw goat milk. One supplements with it, and the other has an adopted baby that gets 100% goat milk. 

Check out realmilk.com


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

Here is my opinion, FWIW -

If I were bottle feeding an infant today, I would definitely prefer goat's milk over formula. Here's why - all infant formula contains both corn syrup and soy. Both corn and soy have been genetically modified and no one knows what that does to anyone yet, especially babies. There may be formula that doesn't contain corn and soy that has been genetically modified, but since none of it is labeled I wouldn't want to feed that to my baby. I think there IS an organic baby formula, that would be my only choice.

Now, if I were feeding goat's milk to my baby, I might pasteurize it if the baby were under six months, though actually I think the enzymes would be more beneficial than "dead" milk. After that, I don't think I'd worry about it.. if I were the one doing the milking, if not, I'd continue to pastuerize it.

I'd also make sure the baby was getting multivitamins.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Hip_Shot_Hanna said:


> Here is my opinion, FWIW -
> 
> If I were bottle feeding an infant today, I would definitely prefer goat's milk over formula. Here's why - all infant formula contains both corn syrup and soy. Both corn and soy have been genetically modified and no one knows what that does to anyone yet, especially babies. There may be formula that doesn't contain corn and soy that has been genetically modified, but since none of it is labeled I wouldn't want to feed that to my baby. I think there IS an organic baby formula, that would be my only choice.
> 
> ...


 Not only that, but soy is estrogenic.

I would not feed pasteurized milk, personally. It truly destroys milk in more way than one. Babies aren't designed to eat cooked milk or it would come out that way.


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## TheNelsons (Oct 3, 2005)

I REALLY appreciate this topic... I am 23 weeks pregnant with my first child and have had to have several breast surgeries and do not know if I will be able to breast feed. I hope to breast feed, but if I can not I really want to use goats milk. I have one decent milker, but think I should get one more in milk before June. 
I have been a little scared to just give goats milk, but have heard it is fine...
If anyone has more info on that please pass it along...
Thanks,
Steph


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## diamonds (Sep 14, 2006)

Ark said:


> I doubt if the pediatrician would _approve_!
> 
> UNLESS, they are very knowledgeable about raw milk.


Sorry but I am a RN so I have to add the disclaimer to check with doc. However when I lived in Indiana until 2003 we had several docs that had that recommended it. They felt the soy based products were not the best in the infants interest. 

I guess it also depends upon what area you live in. Some communities are progressive and some are not. Even down here in S.W. Arkansas we have a couple of docs that also recommend it. They do want it pasteurized though. I personally do not agree with the milk being pasteurized. I feel that natural is better.


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## homeacremom (Jan 13, 2007)

We got into goats for this very reason when my milk dried up when one of our boys was only 4-5 months old. Had tried formulas and boughten pastuerized goat milk w/ no success. I personally think the raw milk is best if you are absolutely certain you have a healthy goat and proper milk handling.
Some pediatricians will actually recommend raw goat milk if that makes you feel better. I have found those that do are the ones who really care about the babies in everything rather than being bought out by the big companies... that is just IMO :baby04: 
We decided to give our son undiluted milk plus offering him plain water a few times a day. We also started him on solids very soon after so never worried about vitamins. For a new born it is often recommended that you dilute the milk w/ pure water and add certain vits. I think standard is 2 parts milk: 1 part water. Check it out... I think goat milk is next best after breastfeeding.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

ok thats basically what i had thought, and sounds like what my family did with me and my brothers, 

now i just have to find someone locally that has a good milk herd and clean production and good prices


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

Isn't there s concern about the sodium in goat's milk? I'll do some research - I used to have all of this immediately to hand but those days are gone by.


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

never herd anything on sodium in goats milk being bad, goats milk is supposed to be one of the BEST for us......but what do i know lol


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## AshleyB (Aug 6, 2005)

Here's the recipe that the Weston A. Price foundation has for homemade baby formula. At the bottom is the variation for goat's milk. 

MILK-BASED FORMULA

Makes 36 ounces

Our milk-based formula takes account of the fact that human milk is richer in whey, lactose, vitamin C, niacin, and long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids compared to cow's milk but leaner in casein (milk protein). The addition of gelatin to cow's milk formula will make it more digestible for the infant. Use only truly expeller-expressed oils in the formula recipes, otherwise they may lack vitamin E.

The ideal milk for baby, if he cannot be breastfed, is clean, whole raw milk from old-fashioned cows, certified free of disease, that feed on green pasture. For sources of good quality milk, see www.realmilk.com or contact a local chapter of the Weston A. Price Foundation.

If the only choice available to you is commercial milk, choose whole milk, preferably organic and unhomogenized, and culture it with a piima or kefir culture to restore enzymes (available from G.E.M. Cultures 707-964-2922).

2 cups whole milk, preferably unprocessed milk from pasture-fed cows
1/4 cup homemade liquid whey (See recipe for whey, below) Note: Do NOT use whey from making cheese--it will cause the formula to curdle. Use only homemade whey made from yoghurt, kefir or separated raw milk.
4 tablespoons lactose*
1 teaspoon bifidobacterium infantis**
2 or more tablespoons good quality cream (not ultrapasteurized), more if you are using milk from Holstein cows
1 teaspoon regular dose cod liver oil or 1/2 teaspoon high-vitamin cod liver oil*
1 teaspoon expeller-expressed sunflower oil*
1 teaspoon extra virgin olive oil*
2 teaspoons coconut oil*
2 teaspoons Frontier brand nutritional yeast flakes*
2 teaspoons gelatin*
1 7/8 cups filtered water
1/4 teaspoon acerola powder*

*Available from Radiant Life 888-593-8333
**Available from Natren 800-992-3323 or Radiant Life 888-593-8333

Add gelatin to water and heat gently until gelatin is dissolved. Place all ingredients in a very clean glass or stainless steel container and mix well. To serve, pour 6 to 8 ounces into a very clean glass bottle, attach nipple and set in a pan of simmering water. Heat until warm but not hot to the touch, shake bottle well and feed baby. (Never, never heat formula in a microwave oven!) Note: If you are using the Lact-Aid, mix all ingredients well in a blender.)
Variation: Goat Milk Formula

Although goat milk is rich in fat, it must be used with caution in infant feeding as it lacks folic acid and is low in vitamin B12, both of which are essential to the growth and development of the infant. Inclusion of nutritional yeast to provide folic acid is essential. To compensate for low levels of vitamin B12, if preparing the Milk-Based Formula (above) with goat's milk, add 2 teaspoons frozen organic raw chicken liver, finely grated to the batch of formula. Be sure to begin egg-yolk feeding at four months. 

www.westonaprice.org has a bunch of really great articles under child health check them out.


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## moosemaniac (Mar 7, 2003)

southerngurl said:


> Not only that, but soy is estrogenic.


If you have thyroid problems, as I do, soy is probably one of the worst things you can drink or eat.

Ruth


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

please look into the link between johnes and crohns disease before you feed your baby any milk thats not human especially unpastuerized. I know that goat milk is deficient in some things that human infants need so it would probably not be acceptable a sole nutrition. the role of fats in brain development is enormous and you should research this also, thats why you see formula companies now marketing formulas that have "DHA and ARA"( which is probably contained in goats milk). seems they went, oops, there is one more thing the breast milk has and formula doesn't. the questions I think you should ask yourself is how does goat milk compare to breast milk and is it better than formula? I don't want to be harsh... but I would hesitate to make a decision about what to feed your baby using whether it smells bad when they throw it up as one of the criteria. despite its shortcomings formula is designed to provide nutrition for human infants. the reason formula was developed was because in WWII women were going to work and their babies were being fed cows and goats milk, and many children became ill or died. now I know the argument always is "well I was raised on goats/cowsmilk or homemade stuff and I turned out ok" but there is someone to argue that sort of thing for everything from smoking to being beaten as a child. hope I didn't offend you I get really revved up when it comes to kids and the choices we make for them out of necessity.http://www.babymilk.com/infants/feeding_options.htm#who


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## Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians (May 6, 2002)

Mercola and Weston Price isn't anywhere I would go for any reasonable instructions. Just use your common sense and read that idiot formula they have you making. Worse is the other one that mixes goat milk with aloe vera juice. The worst is them giving any information to use whole raw cows milk to an infant human. You know their infomration on the site is bunk if you truly are a homesteader and have ever raised animals before.

Most infant formulas don't even contain milk solids, and if it is its from cows, most are simple whey formulas or soy, if a man knew anything about soy he would not allow his boy child to be on a phytoestrogen rich product, with no testing done on it to know the long term consequences of estrogen on our boy children as older men.

Goats milk with a multi vitamin high in niacin is perfect for a child who can not be breast fed, certainly better than any forumla.

The problem is...yes I would feed raw milk to my child from my own does, but I would pasteurise milk from another persons farm. Pasteurised milk is only heated to 165, it is not the sterile water it's made out to be, you can still make excellent cheese with it. Pasteurised goats milk is a much better alternative than any forumla. But know your source. Vicki


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## lynpea (Feb 11, 2003)

I have an interesting raw/pasturize story. We have an adopted drug exposed 14 moth old. We got him whe he was just 5 days old. He was on a milk based formula, and I wanted to switch him to soy. Being vegetarians we thought that this was a good thing........NOT! Turns out that precious little N is allergic to soy big time. His little head was soon covered in excema. At three months when he wasn't gaining anything and looked like a little naked squirrel, the Doc switched him to a high dollar special formula. N continued to have excema and nasty Bm's. At 11 months the Pediatricain suggested moving him onto whole cows milk, but cautioned me that if I saw blood in his stool to stop the milk. Like, yeah,... I am gonna do that to my baby, so the search for goat milk was on and we bought two does. N had a constant runny/green mucusy nose from the soy in the milk formula (they put it in there to boost the fat contant) and this continued even after he was on the pasturized goats milk. I started taking him to a Chiropracter and he said RAW milk. So we tried it and do you know, N's nose and congestion cleared up in THREE DAYS and hasn't come back? And he has started gaining weight and looks like a cute chubby baby. He LOVES his milk! And I LOVE giving it to him. One of our does just kidded and he will soon be drinking her milk. So we have our chickens that he gets the yolks from and the raw milk and he looks good......


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## MommaSasquatch (Dec 5, 2005)

AAACK! NO!!!! Goat's milk (and cow's milk too for that matter) has too high a renal solute load to be used undiluted as an infant's primary (or even a significant secondary) source of nutrition. It's very, very hard on the baby's kidneys. There are reports of babies who became very ill on this diet. Not all will, but it's really not a chance you want to take. Of course human milk is what babies really need, everything else is just a cobbled together substitute. It can be made into a formula in the event that human milk is unavailable, but shouldn't be used straight as is. The concerns about the allergenic potential of cow's milk based formulas and the estrogenic effects of too much soy are real but raw goat's milk isn't the answer either unless it's doctored up to more closely match the needs of a human infant.

One of the chief differences is the levels of protein and lactose (milk sugar). Goat milk has too much protein and not enough lactose for human babies and goat's milk is very similar to cow's milk in both these respects. Lactose actually plays a role in brain development, and contrary to popular belief infants don't get true lactose intolerance until they are a few years old (galactosemia, a rare and more serious disorder is another matter). Most cases of infantile "lactose intolerance" are actually an allergy to milk protein. When commercial infant formula is made the milk is first diluted to dilute the protein levels and then carbohydrates are added to make up the deficiency.

Here are some links with more info and data on milk composition:

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/milk/milk-supplements.html
http://adga.org/compare.htm


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## KSALguy (Feb 14, 2006)

wow, takeing into account that NO ONE on this list can match apples to apples on this topic its got to make a body wonder what the you know what, 

so many differint "scientific studys" you would think someone would actually have a clue, 

just makes a body wonder is all, things to make you go HMMMMM


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

I have tons of customers who feed my raw goat milk to thier infants solely. The children thrive. Raw goat milk is the closest thing to human breast milk. Google for a comparison chart . I know there is one I just can't get to it. 
The smaller protein in goats milk make it easier to digest. 
Raw is the way to go, human breast milk is raw. Just be sure it is a liscensed dairy, the milk has been tested and approved safe for humans as raw.
Steff 
ps.to bad you are not closer.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Â· Nutrient content of goat milk is slightly less than cow milk but goat milk is more digestible because the fat molecules are one-fifth the size of those from cow milk -- making it easily tolerated by those with compromised digestive systems.

Â· Seventy-two percent of the milk used throughout the world is from goats. It is one-third richer than cows milk but more nourishing and easier to digest.

Â· The flavor of goat milk is comparable to that of cow milk. Goat milk has a milder taste.

Â· Goat milk has no cream separation because of smaller fat molecules.

Â· Goat milk contains pre-formed Vitamin A in the milk fat that allows it to be readily available for use by the body.


The only thing missing is iron.
Steff
Â· Goats milk contains a more highly-evolved cholesterol than cows milk, making it more available for absorption to the brain and body. (Cholesterol is essential to the health of the myelin sheaths "white matter" of the nerves in the brain.)

Â· Goat milk is closer to human milk and is therefore easily accepted especially by those young or frail.

Â· Goat milk has an alkaline reaction the same as mother's milk. Cow milk has an acid reaction

Â· Goat milk does not form mucous (phlegm) and is therefore better tolerated by asthmatics and those with allergies.

Â· Goat milk contains more chlorine, fluorine and silicon than any other domestic livestock. Chlorine and fluorine are natural germicides and fluorine assists in preventing diabetes.

Â· Goat milk contains 2% curd, which precipitates in the stomach. Cows milk is 10% curd.

Â· Goats are naturally immune to diseases, such as tuberculosis, and are used in third-world countries to actually cure tuberculosis because of their inherent antibodies.

Â· Goats milk is tolerated by a compromised /damaged liver because of the smaller fat molecules and it's naturally homogenized.

Â· Goats milk has the ability to "sweeten" the intestinal tract and assist with constipation.

Â· Goats milk contains a higher evolved carotene (pro-Vitamin A). Researchers have found this to have cancer preventing properties.

Source: Natures Prescription Milk by Gloria Gilbere, N.D., D.A. Hom., Ph.D.


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## Hip_Shot_Hanna (Apr 2, 2005)

AshleyB said:


> Variation: Goat Milk Formula
> 
> Although goat milk is rich in fat, it must be used with caution in infant feeding as it lacks folic acid and is low in vitamin B12, both of which are essential to the growth and development of the infant. Inclusion of nutritional yeast to provide folic acid is essential. To compensate for low levels of vitamin B12, if preparing the Milk-Based Formula (above) with goat's milk, add 2 teaspoons frozen organic raw chicken liver, finely grated to the batch of formula. Be sure to begin egg-yolk feeding at four months.
> 
> www.westonaprice.org has a bunch of really great articles under child health check them out.


Or you could just supplement with the baby vitamins. Many doctors now do not recommend eggs at all until children are over a year old to mimimize allergies. And raw chicken liver... yuck!

Also.. I believe I read somewhere that donkey milk is the closest to human milk just as an aside.. lol! I know a woman that was raised on mare's milk. Personally, I would rather not milk either of those two species..


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

moosemaniac said:


> If you have thyroid problems, as I do, soy is probably one of the worst things you can drink or eat.
> 
> Ruth


Yea, I have that too. And adrenal problems. General endocrine/hormone stuff. A lot of people do and don't know it as well.


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## LMonty (Jul 31, 2006)

Vicki- Weston Price Org may not be mainstream yet- but they should be. They arent Mercola or his ilk. IMHO opinion a practising RN for 30+ yrs, they know more about nutrition (scientificly based) than your average MD. For an otherwise healthy person, they are an excellent source of information. I spent quite a lot of time independantly researching their premises and info in the past for an entirely different reason, and came away convinced they were valid- although quite different than the current nutrional dogma. 

Take a look at their board of directors. http://www.westonaprice.org/board.html
Mary Enig is one of the most important cutting edge nutritionists and scientists of our times.


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

> Goat milk has an alkaline reaction the same as mother's milk. Cow milk has an acid reaction


I think cows fed pasture, and not tons of grain, will have alkaline reacting milk as well. It is grain that causes acidity in the cow, which encourages ecoli in the gut as well (which is why grain will throw off a goat if it gets too much, and why every one gives baking soda).


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## sedjmom (Jan 16, 2007)

I have to back up what Steff said. My friend and lactation consultant always told me that goat milk is the closest thing to human milk. I used it when I had to supplement my daughter on occasion and she did great!


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

KSALguy said:


> never herd anything on sodium in goats milk being bad, goats milk is supposed to be one of the BEST for us......but what do i know lol



It is high in sodium just like cow's milk. A quick google brought up a tonne of sites - from bf sites to journals. Here's the first link - it explains it well.
http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/milk/milk-supplements.html

and from Wikipedia
"Goat's milk does not contain agglutinin, which means that the fat globules in goat's milk do not cluster together like they do in cow's milk, which makes goat's milk easier for an infant to digest. Goat's milk also does not contain many of the allergens found in cow's milk. However, like cow's milk, goat's milk is also unsuitable for infants as it also does not have appropriate concentrations of electrolytes and can cause intestinal irritation and anemia"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_milk

It isn't good for babies -it's less bad than cow's milk.


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

DQ said:


> please look into the link between johnes and crohns disease before you feed your baby any milk thats not human especially unpastuerized.


Absolutely. I was a raw milk fanatic and ended up with Crohn's with no family hx etc. Now I have pasturized milk and would never give raw to the kids. The research is good, well bad news, but there does seem to be a connection for some people. No one knows what the link is -not all people with Crohn's had raw milk and not all people who drink raw will get Crohn's BUT a significantly higher (and statistically relevant) number of people of people with Crohn's were drinking raw and vice versa.


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

southerngurl said:


> Not only that, but soy is estrogenic.
> 
> I would not feed pasteurized milk, personally. It truly destroys milk in more way than one. Babies aren't designed to eat cooked milk or it would come out that way.


If you are worried about estrogenic compounds you'd want to look at giving up things like coffee, oats, wheat, apples, red wine, rice etc. as they all have estrogenic compounds as well.

Babies aren't designed to have any milk but human milk - and not any human's, the one they've established breastfeeding with. If they need to have another animal's milk, we need to make sure it's safe for them to do so. They don't have the feedback cycle with a goat or cow that they do with the person nursing them and so they're going to become exposed to things their body has no idea how to fight off.


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians said:


> Pasteurised milk is only heated to 165, it is not the sterile water it's made out to be, you can still make excellent cheese with it. Pasteurised goats milk is a much better alternative than any forumla. But know your source. Vicki


I think you've hit on an important point Vicki. There are few among us who would say yogurt isn't healthy but it's heated to a much higher temp.


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

KSALguy said:


> wow, takeing into account that NO ONE on this list can match apples to apples on this topic its got to make a body wonder what the you know what,


I'm not sure what you mean by this.



KSALguy said:


> so many differint "scientific studys" you would think someone would actually have a clue,
> 
> just makes a body wonder is all, things to make you go HMMMMM


That's the trouble-in order for a study to be useful you have to know how to read it. Anyone can say they've done a scientific study and then have things like statistically insignificant numbers or other sorts of variables that they don't report in the abstraact. Also, a study isn't really useful until it's in a peer reviewed journal where other scientists in the same field are agreeing independently that the methodology is good and appropriate to the research question.

Finally, it's hard to find good research about "folk remedies" because there's no money in them. That doesn't meant that research done by the dairy industry - for example - is inherently flawed -it just means we don't have the appropriate breadth of people looking at the research questions.


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

Hip_Shot_Hanna said:


> Or you could just supplement with the baby vitamins. Many doctors now do not recommend eggs at all until children are over a year old to mimimize allergies. And raw chicken liver... yuck!


Egg yolk isn't such a big deal around 9 months- it's hugely rare to be allergic to that. Egg white however is to be avoided - lots of allergies there.


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## steff bugielski (Nov 10, 2003)

Do you realize that Forever people have been giving raw milk to their babies when mom could not breastfeed. Or passing the child off to any other women who was in milk. Only in the past 50-60 yrs have they pasturized. I doubt that these people all had Crohn's. There is nothing wrong with raw milk, cow or goat , if the animal is healthy. Likewise with heat treated milk. There are real problems feeding formula to an infant. Those formulas have nothing but man-made supplements in them. That baby's body does not know how to deal with such stuff. Neither do adult bodies. A body is meant to ingest food grown in nature not a lab.
Steff


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## dezeeuwgoats (Jan 12, 2006)

My son was nine weeks early, the result of a very troubled pregnancy. He didn't sleep through the night until he was nearly three - when we switched him to raw goats milk. Hardly an infant anymore - but there it is. Finally started gaining some weight at that time too.

He is allergic to cow's milk - and I don't mean lactose intolerant - he is a different person. I've never heard of such a severe reaction. No sleep for days after consuming milk or milk product, everything spoken at a yell or scream, somebody please help me stop level of activity. I was sincerely to the point where either he needed meds or I did when we 'tried' goats milk. Within two weeks I had a completely different child. We've since discovered that he is highly sensitive to corn syrup - which is in everything these days. Again, a huge change in behavior - sensory integration issues have drastically improved, he is able to de-escalate his explosive behavior and reason and even hear you when he's angry; things he was never able to do before - EVER. Is this scientific? Hardly - but due to the fact that ALL symptoms comes back if he eats those foods (milk/corn syrup), I have to say I won't be feeding them to him on purpose! The consequences are too great - it makes my life, my family's, and my son's life a living hell. I have a little boy who now has a more normal chance at life now. I could cry when I think of all the years we wasted in ignorance, with this type of information not commonly available.

I test my goats because I do take the threat of disease seriously. I also believe raw is better - but I don't think I'd drink it from someone else's farm unless they were certified, knew they tested for disease, or I had a long standing relationship with them and had watched their milking routine/milk handling, and knew they tested for disease.

Niki


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## bluebird2o2 (Feb 14, 2007)

My childs Doctor reccomended goats milk for my baby when she was not able too keep down cows milk or formula she vomited profusely.we live in the country and this is a regular country doctor.she could not tolerate soy either.bluebird


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## DQ (Aug 4, 2006)

flannelberry said:


> Absolutely. I was a raw milk fanatic and ended up with Crohn's with no family hx etc. Now I have pasturized milk and would never give raw to the kids. The research is good, well bad news, but there does seem to be a connection for some people. No one knows what the link is -not all people with Crohn's had raw milk and not all people who drink raw will get Crohn's BUT a significantly higher (and statistically relevant) number of people of people with Crohn's were drinking raw and vice versa.



Its always difficult to tell truth from hype when researching things, but I have read that pasteurization at current standard temperatures does not reliably kill Para TB and that they have obtained (unreliably) cultures from pastuerized milk. hmmm scary


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## homebirtha (Feb 19, 2004)

I wouldn't feel too much better about pasturized milk and Crohn's though. There is a great deal of suspicion that Johnes/Crohns survives pasturization. We have a family history of Crohn's and that one reason we drink raw milk from our own tested goats. But there's no 100% guarantee. My daughter doesn't like milk at all, and I have never tried to coerce her to drink it. I think her body may be telling her something about the milk not being good for her. 



flannelberry said:


> Absolutely. I was a raw milk fanatic and ended up with Crohn's with no family hx etc. Now I have pasturized milk and would never give raw to the kids.


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

steff bugielski said:


> Only in the past 50-60 yrs have they pasturized. I doubt that these people all had Crohn's.


Please do re read my post-I think you'll find that we are in agreement. FYI - a lot of people died undiagnosed with Crohn's until fairly recently - around the time of pasturization being regemented. 



steff bugielski said:


> There is nothing wrong with raw milk, cow or goat , if the animal is healthy. Likewise with heat treated milk.


If you choose to drink it more power to you - and with that comes some risk (like with most of what we do).



steff bugielski said:


> There are real problems feeding formula to an infant. Those formulas have nothing but man-made supplements in them. That baby's body does not know how to deal with such stuff. Neither do adult bodies. A body is meant to ingest food grown in nature not a lab.
> Steff


You will never see me advocating for breastmilk substitutes - that wasn't the question that was asked. It was specific to goat's milk and has been answered.


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

homebirtha said:


> I wouldn't feel too much better about pasturized milk and Crohn's though. There is a great deal of suspicion that Johnes/Crohns survives pasturization. We have a family history of Crohn's and that one reason we drink raw milk from our own tested goats. But there's no 100% guarantee. My daughter doesn't like milk at all, and I have never tried to coerce her to drink it. I think her body may be telling her something about the milk not being good for her.


I couldn't agree more. I won't touch the stuff - except as yogurt - I confess. Dh and ds love it though. Although ds is slowly swtiching to soy which is a relief. I'd like to have him off milk of any sort as a drink. But even if he just consumes less I'd be happy.


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

dezeeuwgoats said:


> I test my goats because I do take the threat of disease seriously. I also believe raw is better - but I don't think I'd drink it from someone else's farm unless they were certified, knew they tested for disease, or I had a long standing relationship with them and had watched their milking routine/milk handling, and knew they tested for disease.
> 
> Niki


It sounds like you are taking really sensible steps -I hope it continues to help him.


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## flannelberry (Jul 14, 2005)

steff bugielski said:


> A body is meant to ingest food grown in nature not a lab.
> Steff


I think the other material point is that people equate natural with healthy. Sorry, it doesn't really work that way. I'd rather eat a twinkie than injest hemlock or digitalis or be bit by a black widow. I'd rather that for my kids too (although I hope to heck they never eat twinkies!). My point is that just because it occurs in nature doesn't make it inherently good. Just because breast milk is raw doesn't mean we should drink raw everything. One difference -we have significantly fewer stomachs than the beings we are talking about drinking milk from, which significantly alters how they and we will digest the milk. 

I'm certainly not going to suck back raw eggs or raw duck no matter how careful I am (and it'd be gross) or how well I test for salmonella and e.coli. Human kids don't "naturally" drink any milk but human (the WHO recommends someone else's breastmilk before any other alternative and I'm with them). And most humans don't drink any milk past the age of weaning - that's a wierd convention in a fairly limited part of the world. It's not seen as natural in most of the world to drink any milk as a drink by itself after you're weaned. 

I'm sure you eat your oats and wheat etc. cooked - or most of you anyway. Should that be raw too? Our young livestock eat it that way so does that automatically make it right to give it raw to kids? Can you imagine the diapers? Anyway, my point isn't that you *shouldn't* drink raw milk so much as don't assume that because it comes out of the udder or breast raw that all beings should consume it that way.


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## farmgirlmama (May 8, 2006)

If I could not nurse I would make the recipe that AshleyB provided. The Weston Price website is great. I would use raw for my children if: 1) I did the milking 2) It comes from a very clean facility--tested milk, tested goats, safe handling.


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## Katherinepotter (Mar 31, 2020)

hi,

I have a 6 month old girl and it's time to change to powdered milk .I have tried a couple of types but at the moment the only one which she may drink is goats milk dg-1 from new zealand because it's a bit sweeter but she still doesn't really like it . Please Suggest me some better formula for her.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

There is no better formula. Give her multivitamin drops, too.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Over the years I have given away a lot of goats milk to families who needed it. Been a lot of babies raised on it. I remember that some of the babies couldn't use cows milk or formula. Or sometimes couldn't afford the formula.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Katherinepotter said:


> hi,
> 
> I have a 6 month old girl and it's time to change to powdered milk .I have tried a couple of types but at the moment the only one which she may drink is goats milk dg-1 from new zealand because it's a bit sweeter but she still doesn't really like it . Please Suggest me some better formula for her.


Just curious, why must it be powered milk? Is she unable to drink whole milk?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

MommaSasquatch said:


> AAACK! NO!!!! Goat's milk (and cow's milk too for that matter) has too high a renal solute load to be used undiluted as an infant's primary (or even a significant secondary) source of nutrition. It's very, very hard on the baby's kidneys. There are reports of babies who became very ill on this diet. Not all will, but it's really not a chance you want to take. Of course human milk is what babies really need, everything else is just a cobbled together substitute. It can be made into a formula in the event that human milk is unavailable, but shouldn't be used straight as is. The concerns about the allergenic potential of cow's milk based formulas and the estrogenic effects of too much soy are real but raw goat's milk isn't the answer either unless it's doctored up to more closely match the needs of a human infant.
> 
> One of the chief differences is the levels of protein and lactose (milk sugar). Goat milk has too much protein and not enough lactose for human babies and goat's milk is very similar to cow's milk in both these respects. Lactose actually plays a role in brain development, and contrary to popular belief infants don't get true lactose intolerance until they are a few years old (galactosemia, a rare and more serious disorder is another matter). Most cases of infantile "lactose intolerance" are actually an allergy to milk protein. When commercial infant formula is made the milk is first diluted to dilute the protein levels and then carbohydrates are added to make up the deficiency.
> 
> ...


My grandmother raised 14 kids on raw cows milk, and raw goats milk. My mother raised 9 kids on raw cows milk, and raw goats milk. I always considered those two women to be experts on raising kids.


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2009)

way back when we had milking goats, a total stranger came to ask if we could sell some goat milk to him for their baby..
I did him one better, I sent one of my goats home with him for as long as they needed it. They kept the goat for over a year..


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Purely observational, but when I worked for Child Protective Services in a very rural area, all the children I saw being raised on fresh (not canned) goats milk were healthier than those who weren't.


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## farmmaid (Jan 13, 2003)

We had friends that had a large dairy. When their two babies were born they were allergic to cows milk . I gave them goats milk for two years until they outgrew their allergies. ...just saying.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

Raw milk is always controversial. Here my husband's family, including him, all grew up drinking raw cows milk. When we married we started with goats milk which all my children drank and a grandchild was raised on goats milk. My husband and family all have good solid bones as they age as do my adult children and grandchildren. I however was denied milk as a child and have to now make sure I get enough calcium through diet and milk. My bones are thinning. How much calcium a person gets from birth to adulthood affects your bone density when you get old. Calcium is in nuts and green plants but the most comes from milk.

Here raw milk has been outlawed unless you drink milk from your animal. Technically you are not supposed to sell it, give it away or give it to your children. Although we drank unpasteurized milk I will say it was only because we were the ones caring for and milking the goats. We wouldn't drink raw milk from others animals unless we knew exactly how the animals were fed and cared for and the milking facilities were very clean. 

Now we don't have a goat and won't buy either pasteurized or unpasteurized milk. We have seen too many unclean milking parlors over the years. Right now I am cooking with organic pasteurized skim milk powder. I often wonder about the farm and cows this product originated with; were like? But the skim milk powder has been so processed by the time it reaches the store probably nothing good or bad is left in it! We will look for another good goat this Spring now we are resettled. We do eat a ton of dark leafy greens from Spring to winter so we are not altogether calcium deficient. I can see both sides of the milk controversy. A lot depends on the needs of those drinking the milk and availability of clean milk.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

I drank raw milk every day till I was 18 and went into the army. I have good strong bones and all of my teeth except the wisdom teeth. My wife never had any milk when she was a kid, and won't drink it now. She breaks at least one bone every year. Her hands and feet are very fragile.


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## Katherinepotter (Mar 31, 2020)

Feeding my 4 months old baby girl really is the most complex things i have ever done. When i was going to start my baby girl on formula i remember being so worried about ending up feeding her the wrong formula. A whole lot of online research got me to start her feeding on Holle ‘Goat Milk’. Getting it from an online store ever since and i think now that i see she is doing good on formula and growing super fast i am satisfied with my choice.


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## Miguel Martinez (Mar 5, 2020)

A relative had damage to her breasts as a teenager. When she was older and was attempting to breastfeed her daughter she was unable to produce the necessary quantity for her daughter. She found a "milk co-op" through her midwife and supplemented her daughter's milk with the milk from donor mothers in our community. I know it's not for everyone, but it worked for her.

Personally, I grew up on goats milk, and I still prefer the taste to cows milk.


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## jexxyb3 (10 mo ago)

Ark said:


> I doubt if the pediatrician would _approve_!
> 
> UNLESS, they are very knowledgeable about raw milk.
> 
> ...


All I can add is my son is doing great on it as well. I do add a multivitamin to 1 bottle a day and I have to dilute it with water because he's only 2 months and can't handle whole milk yet. But, I'm a believer.


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## Pony (Jan 6, 2003)

My goat mentor's family got into dairy goats because her younger brother was unable to tolerate anything else - not even human milk. Today, he is a big, strapping, healthy man. The rest of the family also drinks cow and goat milk, and they are the healthiest bunch you would ever want to see.

There are pictures from about 100 years ago (1920's-1930's) of children being held up to suckle a goat's teat. Pretty sturdy, healthy looking children. 

Earlier posts mentioned Crohn's/Johnne's. Those are, IIRC, prion diseases, usually found in cows who are fed cow products in their diet. I'd have to do more research to suss out whether it is transmitted through milk, but the studies I've looked into so far (back when a friend was dx's with Crohns) implicate meat from cows.

ANYway. Make sure that the herd from which you acquire milk is clean, and you should do well.


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