# The Bible Talks About Slavery. So Why Are Conservative Christians So Afraid of Critical Race Theory?



## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

> Republican legislators nationwide are waging a fierce battle to prevent teachers from teaching critical race theory--and they’re being helped by conservative Christian leaders willing to intentionally misrepresent their faith for political gain.
> 
> Take the Conservative Baptist Network, a major partnership of Southern Baptists across states, which called CRT “anti-gospel” and “divisive” and incompatible with efforts to oppose racism. Meanwhile, the far-right religious Center for Renewing America claims CRT seeks to eliminate the idea that “all men are created equal, endowed by their Creator with unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” And in a new book, theologian Dr. Voddie Baucham argues that CRT falsely creates its own version of Original Sin—racism—and gives no hope for forgiveness. Their theology proclaims antiracist education a greater evil than racism itself.
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-bible-talks-about-slavery-so-why-are-conservative-christians-so-afraid-of-critical-race-theory/ar-AANYhzm?ocid=msedgntp


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Because people are not right bright. The objection is one of logic, not religion.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I don't know what they are teaching today in school. I have no kids in school. But back when I was in school we learned the horrors of slavery, Jim Crow and all that stuff. Nothing we were taught sugar coated anything. 

And this was Texas in the '70s. I was the first class who had integrated from kindergarten all the way to 12th. 

When did they stop teaching this I wonder?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Christians come in several categories. The ones who misrepresent their faith for political gain are not true Christians.

Besides, the laws under the covenant with Moses required that slave owners treat their slaves well and that they were to be offered their freedom during the Jubilee years. Slave owners in the Americas did neither.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I don't know the story of taking slavery out of the Bible to teach slaves to become Christian. First I had heard of it. I can see how that could happen for very non nefarious reasons though.

The slave holders made them take it out as a condition of teaching them. But once inside and having gained the trust of both the slaves and slave holders they could add it in other ways.

Not saying that is what happened but if they didn't care then why teach them at all?


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Objections to CRT have nothing to do with teaching history.

Not sure what the connection being made between CRT and the bible is. Neither should be taught in public schools.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

CRT has absolutely nothing to do with teaching slavery. It is entirely about a group of impressionable kids whose Marxist college professors turned them into Marxist teachers, some of whom later went on to become Marxist school board members, wanting to start the indoctrination into Marxism even earlier by infecting our grade schools with that mental disease. 

The author of this article constructed a red herring to posit that CRT was something other than what it is, and then argued that Christians were therefore hypocrites if they didn’t support it. That’s how Marxists argue. They’re dirty and can’t be trusted.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

Those today who talk about CRT are not talking about anything in a constructive sense. Rather they are using this CRT nonsense as a destructive tool to spread their poison and destroy society.

There was a show on TV these last number of days recalling the events of 9/11 and the heroic rescue efforts, digging through the rubble to save those trapped inside.

White folks and black folks all digging in earnest to save the lives of white and black folk trapped in the rubble, this is what the archival footage displayed and they interviewed those who are still alive today.

If the US is so racist why were white and black folks helping one another? Why not just leave each other to die in the rubble if the US is racist?

See how these arrogant proponents of CRT never mention that, do they. And they never will. So don’t listen to their poison.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> CRT has absolutely nothing to do with teaching slavery. It is entirely about a group of impressionable kids whose Marxist college professors turned them into Marxist teachers, some of whom later went on to become Marxist school board members, wanting to start the indoctrination into Marxism even earlier by infecting our grade schools with that mental disease.
> 
> The author of this article constructed a red herring to posit that CRT was something other than what it is, and then argued that Christians were therefore hypocrites if they didn’t support it. That’s how Marxists argue. They’re dirty and can’t be trusted.


Everyone, read that one more time. Print it off and share it with your friends. 

A teacher bragging about turning students into Marxist "I have 180 days to turn them into revolutionaries"


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Why the big push to harp on something that ended 156 years ago? Slavery was legal, now it isn't, and it was terrible. Nobody today needs to feel guilty or angry about it. Unless their intention is to keep everybody divided and ready to fight about something. Race baiters are using it for political reasons. 

The Taliban is enslaving young women as we speak, and our leaders claim they can be trusted. Where is the outrage, where are the marches and mostly peaceful protests?


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## Vjk (Apr 28, 2020)

Well, ya know, I seem to see a whole lot more Africans trying to sneak into this country than trying to sneak out of it. Nuff sed.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

If we are going to be worrying about slavery in the bible, shouldn't we be thinking about giving the Jews reparations then?

Or that would be what Egypt owes anyway.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

mreynolds said:


> If we are going to be worrying about slavery in the bible, shouldn't we be thinking about giving the Jews reparations then?
> 
> Or that would be what Egypt owes anyway.


Yes, we should give the Jews their Promised Land. But we (the US) don't own it. Just like the African people who want reparations should be given their historical homeland. Given the choice I doubt many would want that solution.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Better to face the crimes and social injustices that your country perpetrated (and those that are still ongoing) than to pretend they never happened, hide them and re-write history. The problem is that people feel guilty about what their ancestors did as if they had some control over the past. Guilt is a waste of time but facing the realities what was done by your country is the only thing that will prevent these things happening again and stop them now. My ancestors were really bad people - not considered that bad for the time the lived in - and I bare no responsibility for what they or our countries did. I am responsible if I do not change what is happening today by learning about the past and being aware of what is going on at any time in my country. To speak out about what your country is doing wrong is real patriotism. Not the "my country right or wrong " garbage that people try to pass off as patriotism.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

There is a big difference between teaching history and telling a certain race that they are racist just because of their skin color. History should be taught, but without the opinion pieces that the govt tosses in.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

But skin colour did play a huge role in genocide and racism and religious persecution To deny this is absurd. And the inequalities between skin colours still exist today. To deny this is absurd. And it is not just whites who hate other skin colours and treat them as less than human. History of slavery and empires shows that all the time. The Roman empire was one of the few places that really did accept all races, colours and religions. They allowed slaves to buy their freedom and become citizens - in fact the encouraged it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

emdeengee said:


> pretend they never happened


Total BS


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I never said racism did not and does not exist. Racism has been taught for centuries. Racism is alive and well in people of *ALL* colors even today. But teaching racism or that people of one color are racist while another color is not is wrong. Teaching racism is part of the CRT agenda.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

I will ask again.

When did they stop teaching about the horrors of slavery?

When did they stop teaching about Jim crow?

Some of you are acting like it's just not done anymore. Is this true?

Back in the day we just called it history.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> I will ask again.
> 
> When did they stop teaching about the horrors of slavery?
> 
> ...


They did not stop teaching about it. Everyone knows it still taught.

Some want to teach the new age "white people bad, always were bad and always will be bad" lesson.

It is nothing but another tool to divide us to set the stage for the reformation.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> They did not stop teaching about. Everyone knows it still taught.
> 
> Some want to teach the new age "white people bad, always were bad and always will be bad" lesson.
> 
> It is nothing but another tool to divide us to set the stage for the reformation.


In reality it is not part of the curriculum but a certain group keeps saying it is to stir up their base as a tool to divide.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> In reality it is not part of the curriculum but a certain group keeps saying it is to stir up their base as a tool to divide.


That is a lie

Proven a lie many times over.

You are an agent of the reformation


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

emdeengee said:


> But skin colour did play a huge role in genocide and racism and religious persecution To deny this is absurd. And the inequalities between skin colours still exist today. To deny this is absurd. And it is not just whites who hate other skin colours and treat them as less than human. History of slavery and empires shows that all the time. The Roman empire was one of the few places that really did accept all races, colours and religions. They allowed slaves to buy their freedom and become citizens - in fact the encouraged it.


First Nations peoples.....what are YOU doing to stop YOUR government from continuing the torture and oppression of them?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> That is a lie
> 
> Proven a lie many times over.
> 
> You are an agent of the reformation


I am refuting your lies. You are an agent of lies.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I am refuting your lies. You are an agent of lies.


You use lies


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> You use lies


You believe that because you have been indoctrinated and no longer can tell the truth from reality.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I am refuting your lies. You are an agent of lies.


Your not refuting much now are you? I see you post more lies than pretty much anyone else. Refute that with facts.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> You believe that because you have been indoctrinated and no longer can tell the truth from reality.


You funny.

You do the indoctrinating. It is obvious for anyone to see.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> You funny.
> 
> You do the indoctrinating. It is obvious for anyone to see.


The force is buried deep in you. One day it will spring to the surface and the indoctrination will fall to the wayside. You will be horrified with the lies you have spread in the name of your indoctrinators.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> The force is buried deep in you. One day it will spring to the surface and the indoctrination will fall to the wayside. You will be horrified with the lies you have spread in the name of your indoctrinators.


I can do this as many times as you.

Everyone on here sees you for what you are.

You can deny it all day, every day, but we all see it.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I can do this as many times as you.
> 
> Everyone on here sees you for what you are.
> 
> You can deny it all day, every day, but we all see it.


Blinded by the light from your indoctrinators. You see what they want you to see, not reality.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Blinded by the light from your indoctrinators. You see what they want you to see, not reality.


I see you, we all see you, for what you are.

You are an advocate, ever how poor of one, for the reformation.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I see you, we all see you, for what you are.
> 
> You are an advocate, ever how poor of one, for the reformation.


Hopefully, someone will wipe your glasses clean and you will see the crap your indoctrinators have piled in front of you.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

emdeengee said:


> Guilt is a waste of time but facing the realities what was done by your country is the only thing that will prevent these things happening again and stop them now.


not true


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> In reality it is not part of the curriculum but a certain group keeps saying it is to stir up their base as a tool to divide.


This has been discussed before. The public schools are not teaching Critical Race Theory. We acknowledge that. Critical Race Theory, itself, is college-level curriculum designed to push students to activism for the dismantling of our current society so that a communist one can be constructed in its place.

What those on your side of the table are pushing for us to allow those school teachers who have been indoctrinated into the tenets of CRT to indoctrinate our children into allowing our society to be dismantled and replaced with communism.

When we say “they’re teaching CRT in our public schools”, what we more precisely mean is “the teachers are practicing CRT in our schools”.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Were these two posts intended as strawmen? Because that’s exactly what they are.

If this one is not a strawman, then please quote a single person in this thread saying that we do not or should not teach the history of US slavery 


emdeengee said:


> Better to face the crimes and social injustices that your country perpetrated (and those that are still ongoing) than to pretend they never happened, hide them and re-write history. The problem is that people feel guilty about what their ancestors did as if they had some control over the past. Guilt is a waste of time but facing the realities what was done by your country is the only thing that will prevent these things happening again and stop them now. My ancestors were really bad people - not considered that bad for the time the lived in - and I bare no responsibility for what they or our countries did. I am responsible if I do not change what is happening today by learning about the past and being aware of what is going on at any time in my country. To speak out about what your country is doing wrong is real patriotism. Not the "my country right or wrong " garbage that people try to pass off as patriotism.





emdeengee said:


> But skin colour did play a huge role in genocide and racism and religious persecution To deny this is absurd. And the inequalities between skin colours still exist today. To deny this is absurd. And it is not just whites who hate other skin colours and treat them as less than human. History of slavery and empires shows that all the time. The Roman empire was one of the few places that really did accept all races, colours and religions. They allowed slaves to buy their freedom and become citizens - in fact the encouraged it.


If this one is not a strawman, then post a quote where Danaus “absurdly” denied that skin color has been a factor in historical genocide or enslavement. She specifically said that there was a difference between teaching history and teaching people they are racist because of their skin color.

Why can’t you have an intellectually honest discussion?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> This has been discussed before. The public schools are not teaching Critical Race Theory. We acknowledge that. Critical Race Theory, itself, is college-level curriculum designed to push students to activism for the dismantling of our current society so that a communist one can be constructed in its place.
> 
> What those on your side of the table are pushing for us to allow those school teachers who have been indoctrinated into the tenets of CRT to indoctrinate our children into allowing our society to be dismantled and replaced with communism.
> 
> When we say “they’re teaching CRT in our public schools”, what we more precisely mean is “the teachers are practicing CRT in our schools”.


I am definitely not pushing it or anyone that I know that believes as I do. That is propaganda. I admit there is always a few on any side of a situation that are outliers but tarnishing everyone is just really feeding into the propaganda wave that wants that to cause problems.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Critical Race Theory is not being taught in public school. Nor are the teachers using CRT. Nor is there some plot afoot to allow "our society to be dismantled and replaced with communism". That is just silly. 

The simple truth is that there is a segment of people who do not want any discussion of racism, slavery, equity, etc. to happen and so they have decided to label any discussion or mention of the same as CRT. CRT is their new boogeyman to scare their base.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

painterswife said:


> I am definitely not pushing it or anyone that I know that believes as I do. That is propaganda. I admit there is always a few on any side of a situation that are outliers but tarnishing everyone is just really feeding into the propaganda wave that wants that to cause problems.


Whether you support it or not is for you to say (and for only you and God to know if you’re telling the truth), but the continued claim that they’re not teaching CRT in schools is dishonest. Teachers, many, MANY teachers are practicing CRT, _via their teaching_, in our public schools. They may not be giving the students exams on CRT proper, but they absolutely are teaching the things that they were taught to advance the tenets of CRT.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> …The simple truth is that there is a segment of people who do not want any discussion of racism, slavery, equity, etc. to happen and so they have decided to label any discussion or mention of the same as CRT. CRT is their new boogeyman to scare their base.


Yet ANOTHER strawman. No one (no one) is saying that any discussion of slavery or racism is CRT. In fact, we all acknowledge that both slavery and the history and current concerns of racism have been and should continue to be taught. CRT is making its way into our schools via indoctrination on topics about “whiteness”, “systemic racism”, and the so-called inherent racism of white people. Those things are the very underpinning of CRT, and are designed specifically to be used as weapons to tear down our society so that a communist alternative can take its place.

CRT admits its purpose is to dismantle our society and replace it with one aligned with Marxism. The concepts of whiteness and systemic racism are constructs of CRT. When we, the taxpayers behind our public schools, see handouts and class notes discussing our “whiteness” and the “systemic racism” of our country, we righteously get upset and demand that it be stopped. Likewise, if we saw a rash of class notes coming home from the taxpayer-funded youth-indoctrination camps that denied slavery or a history of struggles with racism in our country, we’d be just as upset and demand answers.

To sum it up against the inevitable construction of your next strawman:

We WANT the topic of slavery to be included in our public school American History classes.
We WANT the civil rights movement to be included in our public school American History classes.
We WANT the topic of racism to be included in our public school Sociology and Psychology classes.
We DO NOT want the topic of “whiteness” or “systemic racism”, or any other construct of CRT, taught anywhere in our publicly-funded school system, and will fight you tooth-and-nail everywhere you try.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Yet ANOTHER strawman. No one (no one) is saying that any discussion of slavery or racism is CRT. In fact, we all acknowledge that both slavery and the history and current concerns of racism have been and should continue to be taught. CRT is making its way into our schools via indoctrination on topics about “whiteness”, “systemic racism”, and the so-called inherent racism of white people. Those things are the very underpinning of CRT, and are designed specifically to be used as weapons to tear down our society so that a communist alternative can take its place.
> 
> CRT admits its purpose is to dismantle our society and replace it with one aligned with Marxism. The concepts of whiteness and systemic racism are constructs of CRT. When we, the taxpayers behind our public schools, see handouts and class notes discussing our “whiteness” and the “systemic racism” of our country, we righteously get upset and demand that it be stopped. Likewise, if we saw a rash of class notes coming home from the taxpayer-funded youth-indoctrination camps that denied slavery or a history of struggles with racism in our country, we’d be just as upset and demand answers.
> 
> ...


Pin a medal on that man


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Yet ANOTHER strawman. No one (no one) is saying that any discussion of slavery or racism is CRT. In fact, we all acknowledge that both slavery and the history and current concerns of racism have been and should continue to be taught. CRT is making its way into our schools via indoctrination on topics about “whiteness”, “systemic racism”, and the so-called inherent racism of white people. Those things are the very underpinning of CRT, and are designed specifically to be used as weapons to tear down our society so that a communist alternative can take its place.
> 
> CRT admits its purpose is to dismantle our society and replace it with aligned with Marxism. The concepts of whiteness and systemic racism are constructs of CRT. When we, the taxpayers behind our public schools, see handouts and class notes discussing our “whiteness” and the “systemic racism” of our country, we righteously get upset and demand that it be stopped. Likewise, if we saw a rash of class notes coming home from the taxpayer-funded youth-indoctrination camps that denied slavery or a history of struggles with racism in our country, we’d be just as upset and demand answers.
> 
> ...


You are wrong. Those screaming that CRT is being taught in the schools are seeking to label any discussion of racism, slavery, equity etc. as CRT. You only have to take an honest look at the comments they make and the laws that they are seeking to pass (and have passed) to know that. 

BTW, any time you use the word "indoctrination" in a discussion about education, you show that you have zero credibility in the discussion.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

To add insult to injury.

Imagine a high school classroom where the history teacher asks the students how societal structures continue to support the enslavement of Black people. Then the conversation continues to dissect the role of slaves in the development of America, abandoning the predictable narrative of the Civil War, emancipation, freedom.​​That curriculum exists. The Pulitzer Center helped turn The New York Times’ The 1619 Project — which received worldwide attention when it was published last year — into a curriculum that’s now taught in more than 4,500 schools nationwide.​​In conjunction with the new teachings, the Heritage Foundation, a conservative research and educational institution, sent a survey conducted by Braun Research to 1,001 parents and 566 school board members across the country to measure their outlook toward the state of civics education and The 1619 Project as a whole.​​Two-thirds of the parents surveyed, 74 percent of who were white, think the current civics education in public schools provides enough historical instruction, and about the same amount do not think schools should reframe the teachings to tell students that U.S. history has been tainted by slavery and racism.​​Similarly, 73 percent of the surveyed school board members, 53 percent of who are located in the southern region, think that 1776 should remain America’s birth year, a year the contributors of the project want to change to 1619 to mark the first enslaved Africans arriving in the U.S.​​​







The 1619 Project curriculum taught in over 4,500 schools — Frederick County Public Schools has the option - Medill News Service


Teachers in Frederick County Public Schools have the option to teach slavery via The 1619 Project curriculum.




dc.medill.northwestern.edu


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are wrong. Those screaming that CRT is being taught in the schools are seeking to label any discussion of racism, slavery, equity etc. as CRT. You only have to take an honest look at the comments they make and the laws that they are seeking to pass (and have passed) to know that.
> 
> BTW, any time you use the word "indoctrination" in a discussion about education, you show that you have zero credibility in the discussion.


No, you are wrong. Most people I talk to do not equate crt to slavery or civil rights education. They are 2 different things. We want civil rights taught. We want the true history revealed. 

Just tell the truth in class. Don't add that because Joe's daddy is white Joe has more opportunities than Bill. It's just not true.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

2008 I had a white friend lose his full time job. Then he started having chest pains but had no insurance at part time. He applied for emergency Medicaid but was turned down. He was in tears while he pleaded with the lady. She tore up his ap and told him to reapply as African American. He did and was accepted. The lady told him there are plenty of white Africans and no one ever checked anyway.

Is that equality or reparations?

A friend was building a government building in Huntsville Texas 20 years ago. He asked me for some construction advice because the job wasn't going well. I gave him what he needed and on the drive home he told me that the government gave him a zero interest loan with no down. 20 year note and the SS admin was guaranteed to rent building for 25 years. The rent was twice the note with escrow included. When I asked how I could get me some of that he says "you can't. Your not black. Only black people are allowed to get this deal."

Is that equality or reparations?

I didn't really have a problem with either scenario but don't tell me that a black can not make a good life all because of a white man. If you really believe that and teach that then you are the racist.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

It is shameful how little the school knows about what happens in a classroom. 

The Natomas Unified School District in California, announced Wednesday it plans to terminate the Advanced Placement Government teacher who was heard boasting he was using Antifa propaganda to turn his students into “revolutionaries.”​​

https://natomasunified.org/what-we-know-about-teacher-in-video-and-next-steps/?__cf_chl_managed_tk__=pmd_cmXa7_y4W6Ul6UgioX1mjj6w7GXFs16Pp2sW6pi7JZg-1630591948-0-gqNtZGzNAuWjcnBszRIl


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

emdeengee said:


> Better to face the crimes and social injustices that your country perpetrated (and those that are still ongoing) than to pretend they never happened, hide them and re-write history. The problem is that people feel guilty about what their ancestors did as if they had some control over the past. Guilt is a waste of time but facing the realities what was done by your country is the only thing that will prevent these things happening again and stop them now. My ancestors were really bad people - not considered that bad for the time the lived in - and I bare no responsibility for what they or our countries did. I am responsible if I do not change what is happening today by learning about the past and being aware of what is going on at any time in my country. To speak out about what your country is doing wrong is real patriotism. Not the "my country right or wrong " garbage that people try to pass off as patriotism.


Put blame where the blame belongs.

Africans sold other Africans into slavery.

Go to Africa and preach to the BLACKS there about your Critical Race Theory.

Because it was BLACKS who supplied the people for the slave trade.

Demonize BLACKS for a change. . Try to cash in on reparations from them.

Oh wait, they're broke and still running around in rags and animal skins, better to go after the North American whites, they have more money.



> Incomplete depictions of the Atlantic slave trade are, in fact, quite common. My 2003 study of 49 state U.S. history standards revealed that not one of these guides to classroom content even mentioned the key role of Africans in supplying the Atlantic slave trade. In Africa itself, however, the slave trade is remembered quite differently. Nigerians, for example, explicitly teach about their own role in the trade:
> 
> Where did the supply of slaves come from? First, the Portuguese themselves kidnapped some Africans. But the bulk of the supply came from the Nigerians. These Nigerian middlemen moved to the interior where they captured other Nigerians who belonged to other communities. The middlemen also purchased many of the slaves from the people in the interior . . . . Many Nigerian middlemen began to depend totally on the slave trade and neglected every other business and occupation. The result was that when the trade was abolished [by England in 1807] these Nigerians began to protest. As years went by and the trade collapsed such Nigerians lost their sources of income and became impoverished.
> 
> ...


Blacks whose ancestors were brought here as slaves should be on their knees thanking God that they wound up here, where even the poorest of the poor are better off than nearly any African who is compelled to drink out of a mud puddle full of giraffe piss.



> Mortality resulting from the consumption of contaminated food and water in Africa is around 700,000 annually.
> 
> The incidence of diarrhea caused by consumption of contaminated food and water was estimated at up to five episodes per child per year.
> 
> Contaminated food, water causes 700,000 deaths in Africa annually.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are wrong. Those screaming that CRT is being taught in the schools are seeking to label any discussion of racism, slavery, equity etc. as CRT. You only have to take an honest look at the comments they make and the laws that they are seeking to pass (and have passed) to know that.
> 
> BTW, any time you use the word "indoctrination" in a discussion about education, you show that you have zero credibility in the discussion.


You are so reliant on that strawman that you can’t even address the point after the position was spelled out in plain, bullet-point English. For continuity’s sake, here it is again


GunMonkeyIntl said:


> To sum it up against the inevitable construction of your next strawman:
> 
> We WANT the topic of slavery to be included in our public school American History classes.
> We WANT the civil rights movement to be included in our public school American History classes.
> ...


I even said, in that same post, that we’d be upset if we found out teachers were trying to eliminate teaching the history of slavery or the civil rights struggle in the US. So, no, those “screaming” about CRT (myself included) are clearly not labeling the teaching of the history of slavery as CRT. We’re “screaming” about topics like “whiteness” and “systemic racism”, which are, in and of themselves, racist and tenets of CRT, in our schools, on OUR taxpayer dime.

The fact that you couldn’t argue against the point being made, and had to construct a strawman to poke at instead, is on full display for anyone who ever comes along and reads this thread in the future. Do you want to engage the debate at hand, or continue making yourself look foolish?

Do you teach your students about “whiteness”?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I wonder how many times in a single school year she uses the term "whiteness", or something similar.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

There is a district here in central Texas where a history teacher ABSOLUTELY tried to teach the students about white advantage and that white Christian people were systematically evil.

My grandson and my son put a stop to that.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> BTW, any time you use the word "indoctrination" in a discussion about education, you show that you have zero credibility in the discussion.


actually it shows more credibility than those who try to deny its existence.


----------



## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> There is a district here in central Texas where a history teacher ABSOLUTELY tried to teach the students about white advantage and that white Christian people were systematically evil.
> 
> My grandson and my son put a stop to that.


"Teachers" like that need their license revoked.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> You are so reliant on that strawman that you can’t even address the point after the position was spelled out in plain, bullet-point English. For continuity’s sake, here it is again
> 
> 
> I even said, in that same post, that we’d be upset if we found out teachers were trying to eliminate teaching the history of slavery or the civil rights struggle in the US. So, no, those “screaming” about CRT (myself included) are clearly not labeling the teaching of the history of slavery as CRT. We’re “screaming” about topics like “whiteness” and “systemic racism”, which are, in and of themselves, racist and tenets of CRT, in our schools, on OUR taxpayer dime.
> ...


Take a look at all the comments being made about the supposed teaching of CRT in the real world outside of HT and you will see that I am correct no matter how much you want to claim the opposite. Look at the language in the text of the laws that have been proposed and passed. Look at the hissy fit some HT posters were throwing over a school district conducting an equity survey to ensure that all of their students & families were being served equitably. So your claim that the discussion of race, racism, equity and slavery is not being labeled as CRT is false. 

You appear to think that if you declare that "CRT is making its way in the schools" that somehow that makes it so. Then you make the erroneous claim that teachers have been "indoctrinated" into CRT in college and are passing that on to students. You are 100% wrong.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Take a look at all the comments being made about the supposed teaching of CRT in the real world outside of HT and you will see that I am correct no matter how much you want to claim the opposite. Look at the language in the text of the laws that have been proposed and passed. Look at the hissy fit some HT posters were throwing over a school district conducting an equity survey to ensure that all of their students & families were being served equitably. So your claim that the discussion of race, racism, equity and slavery is not being labeled as CRT is false.
> 
> You appear to think that if you declare that "CRT is making its way in the schools" that somehow that makes it so. Then you make the erroneous claim that teachers have been "indoctrinated" into CRT in college and are passing that on to students. You are 100% wrong.


I’m impressed! How can you come down on the wrong side of every discussion??


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> I’m impressed! How can you come down on the wrong side of every discussion??


That is the question for the ages.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> I’m impressed! How can you come down on the wrong side of every discussion??


And, you are wrong again, as usual.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> And, you are wrong again, as usual.


Right, I’m sure college students aren’t being indoctrinated into Marxism any more than your students are.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Right, I’m sure college students aren’t being indoctrinated into Marxism any more than your students are.


Right, based on your experience total of zero, you're totally believable. Sure.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

How many times do I need to remind you guys throw in a picture, it confuses the algorithm.


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## georger (Sep 15, 2003)

A lot of this conversation points to too easy access to food, too much time at the computer and not enough time spent working for food.


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## MichaelZ (May 21, 2013)

As I have posted before on this, National Education Association, National Science Foundation, And National Counsel on Teaching Mathematics all promote CRT in curriculum. It is not in every school, but the powers that be in these influential organizations wish that it was.


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## The B.O.M. Farm (Aug 12, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> Besides, the laws under the covenant with Moses required that slave owners treat their slaves well and that they were to be offered their freedom during the Jubilee years.


Leviticus 25:44-46 reveals the double standard... curious why people always leave that out.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Right, based on your experience total of zero, you're totally believable. Sure.


What makes you think I haven’t discussed this with college students? What makes you think I’ve no experience with our educational system? If, as you say, crt is not being taught, why worry about laws against it?
what makes you think?


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## The B.O.M. Farm (Aug 12, 2021)

Internalizations

Under "Constructed Racist Oppression":

"sees a person of color only as a member of a group, not as an individual"

Under "White Privilege":

"expect to be seen as an individual; what we do never reflects on the white race"


... I found this interesting.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> Take a look at all the comments being made about the supposed teaching of CRT in the real world outside of HT and you will see that I am correct no matter how much you want to claim the opposite. Look at the language in the text of the laws that have been proposed and passed. Look at the hissy fit some HT posters were throwing over a school district conducting an equity survey to ensure that all of their students & families were being served equitably. So your claim that the discussion of race, racism, equity and slavery is not being labeled as CRT is false.
> 
> You appear to think that if you declare that "CRT is making its way in the schools" that somehow that makes it so. Then you make the erroneous claim that teachers have been "indoctrinated" into CRT in college and are passing that on to students. You are 100% wrong.


How about you take a look at the comments in this thread? These are the people you’re actually talking to. How about you answer the clear and direct questions posed here? _Do you or have you taught your students about “whiteness”?_

If you really want to debate the specific legislation being posed, I’m happy to do that, but, so far, you haven’t shown that you’re willing to have an intellectually honest or clear discussion of the topics so far posed. Here are two of the more hotly contested government actions against CRT. What in these texts do you take issue with?

NC Bill


> The belief that the U.S. “is a meritocracy is an inherently racist or sexist belief, or that the United States was created by members of a particular race or sex for the purpose of oppressing members of another race or sex.”
> An individual, solely by virtue of his or her race or sex, is inherently racist, sexist or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.
> An individual, solely by virtue of his or her race or sex, bears responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.
> Any individual, solely by virtue of his or her race or sex, should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress.





FL Ban


> 6A-1.094124 Required Instruction Planning and Reporting.
> (3) As provided in Section 1003.42(2), F.S., members of instructional staff in public schools must teach the required instruction topics efficiently and faithfully, using materials that meet the highest standards of professionalism and historical accuracy.
> (a) Efficient and faithful teaching of the required topics must be consistent with the Next Generation Sunshine State Standards and the Benchmarks for Excellent Student Thinking (B.E.S.T.) Standards.
> (b) Instruction on the required topics must be factual and objective, and may not suppress or distort significant historical events, such as the Holocaust, slavery, the Civil War and Reconstruction, the civil rights movement and the contributions of women, African American and Hispanic people to our country, as already provided in Section 1003.42(2), F.S. Examples of theories that distort historical events and are inconsistent with State Board approved standards include the denial or minimization of the Holocaust, and the teaching of Critical Race Theory, meaning the theory that racism is not merely the product of prejudice, but that racism is embedded in American society and its legal systems in order to uphold the supremacy of white persons. Instruction may not utilize material from the 1619 Project and may not define American history as something other than the creation of a new nation based largely on universal principles stated in the Declaration of Independence. Instruction must include the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights and subsequent amendments.
> (c) Efficient and faithful teaching further means that any discussion is appropriate for the age and maturity level of the students, and teachers serve as facilitators for student discussion and do not share their personal views or attempt to indoctrinate or persuade students to a particular point of view that is inconsistent with the Next Generation Sunshine State Standards and the Benchmarks for Excellent Student Thinking (B.E.S.T.) Standards.


I see a lot about prohibiting teaching that any one race is inherently racist, that one sex is inherently sexist, that our nation was founded on anything other than the motivations stated in the Declaration of Independence, and, curiously mentioned, anything that denies or marginalizes the Holocaust. You take issue with any of this?

I’ll answer any question you pose about legislative action taken against practicing CRT in our public schools, but I want an answer to the following, which was posed first:

Do you or have you taught your students about “whiteness”, “white privilege”, or “systemic racism”?


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

mreynolds said:


> I will ask again.
> 
> When did they stop teaching about the horrors of slavery?
> 
> ...


My kids were not taught about slavery or Jim Crow in public school. This was back in the late 90's to early 2000's. My son's history book commented on the Trail of Tears by saying it was called that because the Indians had to move to the reservation. Nothing more, just one sentence.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The B.O.M. Farm said:


> Leviticus 25:44-46 reveals the double standard... curious why people always leave that out.


I would have to go back and research it more but it was my understanding that even the bondmen who were strangers were supposed to be given their freedom or option every so many years.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> How about you take a look at the comments in this thread? These are the people you’re actually talking to. How about you answer the clear and direct questions posed here? _Do you or have you taught your students about “whiteness”?_
> 
> If you really want to debate the specific legislation being posed, I’m happy to do that, but, so far, you haven’t shown that you’re willing to have an intellectually honest or clear discussion of the topics so far posed. Here are two of the more hotly contested government actions against CRT. What in these texts do you take issue with?
> 
> ...


First, the laws you have posted are seeking to ban a practice that is not happening. They were proposed to make political hay. I take issue with the constant bashing and scapegoating of the teaching profession. These laws are yet another example of that. 

Laws that dictate that teachers may only teach that "...slavery and racism are anything other than deviations from, betrayals of, or failures to live up to, the authentic founding principles of the United States, which include liberty and equality..." are dishonest. Let's face it, at the time of its writing, "all men are created equal" meant in practice "all white men who own property are created equal". Hardly a "deviation" when you are leaving out large segments of the population. Here's one of the founding principles of the Confederate States of America as found in their Constitution -- "No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs,. or to whom such service or labor may be due. " Kind of hard to have an honest discussion when teachers are required to lie and claim that it's just a "deviation". 

Your last question is nonsense based on the myths you want to believe about public school but I'll answer it for you. No. There's your answer. I'll even expand on the answer for you -- Neither has any teacher whose classroom I have been in and, due to my job, I have been in many classrooms over the course of my career. You are so desperate to believe CRT is happening in the public schools that you are falling for whatever comes down the pike.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> "No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs,. or to whom such service or labor may be due. "


How is that so different than this? 
ARTICLE IV, SECTION 2, CLAUSE 3
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> How is that so different than this?
> ARTICLE IV, SECTION 2, CLAUSE 3
> No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.


Both are examples that claiming that slavery and racism are "...anything other than deviations from, betrayals of, or failures to live up to, the authentic founding principles of the United States, which include liberty and equality..." is dishonest. Let's face it, for much of our history for much of our population, the phrase "all men are created equal" was just words on a page. Those words had no meaning in any practical sense for them.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Both are examples that claiming that slavery and racism are "...anything other than deviations from, betrayals of, or failures to live up to, the authentic founding principles of the United States, which include liberty and equality..." is dishonest. Let's face it, for much of our history for much of our population, the phrase "all men are created equal" was just words on a page. Those words had no meaning in any practical sense for them.


Sounds like a deviation to me. What am I missing?


----------



## Raffo (May 30, 2015)

I should say , slavery had their bad and their good my relatives kept slaves and when they freed them only a couple left , the others were like family . I was able to meet a lady born slave in my relative properties and she only spoke good things of my family , my family were Christian and they even had a pastor providing services every Sunday to their slaves and family so is like every thing some good some bad .


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> My kids were not taught about slavery or Jim Crow in public school. This was back in the late 90's to early 2000's. My son's history book commented on the Trail of Tears by saying it was called that because the Indians had to move to the reservation. Nothing more, just one sentence.


Well that explains a lot then. That should be criminal.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

mreynolds said:


> Well that explains a lot then. That should be criminal.


Our district doesn't teach a lot of history in history class. I'm not sure what they do teach in history class.

Actually, I don't remember learning much about Jim Crow in school. I learned about it when doing some pleasure reading. 

I learned more about slavery by watching _Roots_ than I learned in school. My mom let me stay up and watch it because she thought it was important to learn about the slave trade.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

I think school districts and teachers tend to be different in their approach to different aspects of subjects. My school was pretty thorough in teaching about slavery, Jim Crow and the treatment of native Americans. I remember because the tests were very in depth.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> Laws that dictate that teachers may only teach that "...slavery and racism are anything other than deviations from, *betrayals of, or failures to live up to, the authentic founding principles of the United States*, which include liberty and equality..." are dishonest. Let's face it, at the time of its writing, "all men are created equal" meant in practice "all white men who own property are created equal". Hardly a "deviation" when you are leaving out large segments of the population. Here's one of the founding principles of the Confederate States of America as found in their Constitution -- "No slave or other person held to service or labor in any State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such slave belongs,. or to whom such service or labor may be due. " Kind of hard to have an honest discussion when teachers are required to lie and claim that it's just a "deviation".


Emphasis above is mine. You seem to be willfully ignoring the part about it being a betrayal of our founding principles, a failure to live up to our founding principles. That is exactly what slavery was. What is being banned is “teaching” students that slavery is something other than a betrayal of our founding principles; that it was core to our founding principles, ala the 1691 project. My schooling, way back in the dark ages of the 1990s, openly discussed the horrors of slavery and the hypocrisy of some of our slave-owning founders. Nothing being proposed would put an end to teaching that very important aspect of our history. It’s aiming to keep out the Marxist indoctrination represented by 1691 and CRT.



SLFarmMI said:


> Your last question is nonsense based on the myths you want to believe about public school but I'll answer it for you. No. There's your answer. I'll even expand on the answer for you -- Neither has any teacher whose classroom I have been in and, due to my job, I have been in many classrooms over the course of my career. You are so desperate to believe CRT is happening in the public schools that you are falling for whatever comes down the pike.


I accept that you say you haven’t taught “whiteness” in your classroom, but it absolutely is happening elsewhere. You are so desperate to believe that those criticizing any aspect of public-funded schooling that you’re willing to ignore overt examples of the Marxist principles of CRT worming their way into school systems across the country.

This is just a quick collection of links, from media sources considered to be “right”, some considered to be “left”, and some from the school organizations themselves:









White Teachers, Our Whiteness Is Getting in Our Way


Since the murder of George Floyd, teacher leaders across America have sought to prove the necessity of antiracism in public education. And rightly so: from




educationpost.org













East Side Community School Tells Parents to Become “White Traitors”


A New York City public school principal calls on white parents to “subvert white authority.”




www.city-journal.org









__





White privilege school assignment in Mancelona causes controversy







upnorthlive.com













NYC public school asks parents to ‘reflect’ on their ‘whiteness’


A city public school principal is asking parents to “reflect” on their “whiteness” — passing out literature that extols “white traitors’’ who “dismantle institutions,&…




nypost.com









__





News Bureau | ILLINOIS


Most college and professional development programs for school leaders fail to teach them about racism’s foundational role in public education and give them the skills to address bias and inequities in schools, University of Illinois graduate student Nathan Tanner found.




news.illinois.edu













Fury over school’s ‘whiteness’ chart


A chart identifying the “eight levels of white identity” has caused outrage in the US after a school sent out guidelines encouraging students to dismantle the “regime of whiteness”.




www.news.com.au













Fact Check: Are Buffalo Schools Teaching That Whites Perpetuate Racism?


Buffalo Public Schools (BPS) in Erie County, New York, found itself the subject of national headlines this week for its work incorporating anti-racist principles into its curriculum.



www.newsweek.com













Palm Beach County school board may retract its vow to dismantle ‘white advantage’ after outcry


The school district has been inundated with messages from parents criticizing what they described as racially divisive language.



amp.palmbeachpost.com







https://www.nextgenlearning.org/articles/what-happened-when-my-school-started-to-dismantle-white-supremacy-culture











LA High School Teacher Hangs ‘F*** the Police’ Poster in Classroom | National Review


Over the last year, teachers and administrators nationwide have weaponized K-12 education by injecting progressive politics into classrooms.




www.nationalreview.com


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Shall I go on?
Oh, why the hell not?

Massachusetts school district pushes grade schoolers to read books about 'White privilege,' 'Whiteness' | Fox News

https://trace.tennessee.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1068&context=catalyst

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1090573.pdf

Nashville school board pledges to fight racism, white privilege amid critical race theory ban

GHS principal to white teachers: Check your privilege | The New Old North

Teaching About White Privilege - Educators 4 Social Change

https://www.record-eagle.com/news/t...cle_89fcdc02-81d6-11eb-9f92-77c21442ca4e.html

Fighting Systemic Racism in K-12 Education: Helping Allies Move From the Keyboard to the School Board - Center for American Progress

Teaching 6-Year-Olds About Privilege and Power | KQED
(This one proudly titles itself “Teaching Six Year-Olds About Privilege and Power”, for crying out loud!)

Medford Teachers Taking White Privilege, Systemic Racism Training

S.F. high school students get a lesson in subtle white privilege

School District Includes Books About ‘Whiteness’ And ‘White Privilege’ On Suggested Summer Reading List For Grade School Students - The Daily Caller

Teachers go to school on racial bias

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/07...ite-privilege-he-was-fired-it/?outputType=amp

https://amp.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article207952379.html


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Raffo said:


> I should say , slavery had their bad and their good my relatives kept slaves and when they freed them only a couple left , the others were like family . I was able to meet a lady born slave in my relative properties and she only spoke good things of my family , my family were Christian and they even had a pastor providing services every Sunday to their slaves and family so is like every thing some good some bad .


I’m dying to hear about the “good” aspects of slavery. 
Please do share.


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Emphasis above is mine. You seem to be willfully ignoring the part about it being a betrayal of our founding principles, a failure to live up to our founding principles. That is exactly what slavery was. What is being banned is “teaching” students that slavery is something other than a betrayal of our founding principles; that it was core to our founding principles, ala the 1691 project. My schooling, way back in the dark ages of the 1990s, openly discussed the horrors of slavery and the hypocrisy of some of our slave-owning founders. Nothing being proposed would put an end to teaching that very important aspect of our history. It’s aiming to keep out the Marxist indoctrination represented by 1691 and CRT.
> 
> 
> I accept that you say you haven’t taught “whiteness” in your classroom, but it absolutely is happening elsewhere. You are so desperate to believe that those criticizing any aspect of public-funded schooling that you’re willing to ignore overt examples of the Marxist principles of CRT worming their way into school systems across the country.
> ...


You are wrong again. When the founding documents of our country restrict full citizenship rights to a limited segment of the population, that's not a "deviation", that's foundational. The Founders got a lot right but they also got a lot wrong and denying or sugarcoating that is dishonest. I realize that taking a hard look at some of the things the Founders did and some things they failed to do makes some people uncomfortable.


----------



## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are wrong again. When the founding documents of our country restrict full citizenship rights to a limited segment of the population, that's not a "deviation", that's foundational. The Founders got a lot right but they also got a lot wrong and denying or sugarcoating that is dishonest. I realize that taking a hard look at some of the things the Founders did and some things they failed to do makes some people uncomfortable.


That’s exactly what they mean when they accept that allowing the institution of slavery to persist at our found was a _betrayal_ or a _deviation_ from our founding principles. They are acknowledging that slavery was not consistent or true to the principles stated in the Declaration of Independence.

The core founding principle of our founding was that God created all men equal, but no one denies that slavery betrayed that principle. The bill you’re railing against allows for that reality to be taught. It prohibits teaching the Marxist CRT version that states that the US was found specifically to exploit black people for the benefit of white people.

We don’t want our tax dollars being spent on the salaries of Marxist-activist teachers indoctrinating our children to think that our country is an evil, racist place and that white people are unfairly privileged and inherently racist. I provided you over a dozen links of evidence of that very thing happening; a thing which your Union propaganda instructs you to deny.


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Tom Horn said:


> Put blame where the blame belongs.
> 
> Africans sold other Africans into slavery.
> 
> ...


----------



## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> not true


 If you feel guilt or shame for what your ancestors did then you are wasting your time. You did nothing- they did whatever they did. You have no control over what they did and thus bare no responsibility for what they did. But you can learn from what they did and do better. Of course this would only apply if you think they did wrong. Many people still think the way their ancestors did.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> That’s exactly what they mean when they accept that allowing the institution of slavery to persist at our found was a _betrayal_ or a _deviation_ from our founding principles. They are acknowledging that slavery was not consistent or true to the principles stated in the Declaration of Independence.
> 
> The core founding principle of our founding was that God created all men equal, but no one denies that slavery betrayed that principle. The bill you’re railing against allows for that reality to be taught. It prohibits teaching the Marxist CRT version that states that the US was found specifically to exploit black people for the benefit of white people.
> 
> We don’t want our tax dollars being spent on the salaries of Marxist-activist teachers indoctrinating our children to think that our country is an evil, racist place and that white people are unfairly privileged and inherently racist. I provided you over a dozen links of evidence of that very thing happening; a thing which your Union propaganda instructs you to deny.


Nice try but when, in its foundation, rights are only granted to a select segment of the population, that's a founding principle of the country. Not a deviation, a foundation. And the "OMG, teachers are indoctrinating our kids" hysterics want that fact to be denied. I thought you had better sense than to align yourself with the crowd of indoctrination hysterics but I guess I was wrong. 

This whole hue and cry about CRT and the claims it is being taught in the public schools is just a lot of nonsense. It's generated out of the fear and anger that resulted from the George Floyd incident. It's a way of attempting to avoid having some hard conversations that we, as a country, need to have.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> You are wrong again. When the founding documents of our country restrict full citizenship rights to a limited segment of the population, that's not a "deviation", that's foundational. The Founders got a lot right but they also got a lot wrong and denying or sugarcoating that is dishonest. I realize that taking a hard look at some of the things the Founders did and some things they failed to do makes some people uncomfortable.


What rights were denied to which citizens in which founding documents?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> What rights were denied to which citizens in which founding documents?


Are you serious? You can't possibly be that uninformed.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Are you serious? You can't possibly be that uninformed.


Apparently I am. In spite of having studied our nations history, the founding documents in particular and still can’t find these groups you speak of being denied full rights of citizenship.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I wish Monkey was teaching and SLF was selling pencils in Times Square


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> I wish Monkey was teaching and SLF was selling pencils in Times Square


I wish you would take your hate & ignorance and go spew it somewhere else.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> I wish you would take your hate & ignorance and go spew it somewhere else.


I don't hate Monkey


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> I wish you would take your hate & ignorance and go spew it somewhere else.


Could we just discuss the topic?


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> I wish Monkey was teaching and SLF was selling pencils in Times Square


Let’s play nice, it’s a good thread.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Evons hubby said:


> Let’s play nice, it’s a good thread.


People need pencils


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Apparently I am. In spite of having studied our nations history, the founding documents in particular and still can’t find these groups you speak of being denied full rights of citizenship.


You obviously didn't study very hard. Let's start with an easy one. Who was granted the right to vote under the 14th Amendment? Who was left out? Who had the right to vote prior to the 14th Amendment? Who didn't?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> You obviously didn't study very hard. Let's start with an easy one. Who was granted the right to vote under the 14th Amendment? Who was left out? Who had the right to vote prior to the 14th Amendment? Who didn't?


Who is denied the vote today?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Who is denied the vote today?


Not relevant to the question that was posed which was "What rights were denied to which citizens in which founding documents?"


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> You obviously didn't study very hard. Let's start with an easy one. Who was granted the right to vote under the 14th Amendment? Who was left out? Who had the right to vote prior to the 14th Amendment? Who didn't?


Where was anyone denied the vote in the original text? Nobody! I consider the original text and the first ten amendments to be “founding documents”. The 14th came much later, not two centuries, but later.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not relevant to the question that was posed which was "What rights were denied to which citizens in which founding documents?"


The amendments are part of the founding documents


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Where was anyone denied the vote in the original text? Nobody!


Nice try, but wrong.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Nice try, but wrong.


Please enlighten!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> Nice try, but wrong.


The process to evolve is in the founding documents


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> The amendments are part of the founding documents


The amendment in question was not part of the document at the founding and you know it. Or you should.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> The amendment in question was not part of the document at the founding and you know it. Or you should.


Again - The process to evolve is in the founding documents


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> The amendment in question was not part of the document at the founding and you know it. Or you should.


Thank you for recognizing!! Now where in the founding documents were people denied any rights?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

HDRider said:


> Again - The process to evolve is in the founding documents


Again -- many groups were denied the right to vote when the founding documents were written which is the topic at hand. Try to keep up.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Thank you for recognizing!! Now where in the founding documents were people denied any rights?


Again. Who had the right to vote when the founding documents were first written? This pretend obtuseness (at least I hope it is pretend) doesn't advance your argument.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Again -- many groups were denied the right to vote when the founding documents were written which is the topic at hand. Try to keep up.


I can’t find this in my copies?!?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Again. Who had the right to vote when the founding documents were first written? This pretend obtuseness (at least I hope it is pretend) doesn't advance your argument.


Voting rights varied widely, depending upon the state one resided, kinda like they do today. But as a nation? Nobody was denied voting privileges.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Voting rights varied widely, depending upon the state one resided, kinda like they do today. But as a nation? Nobody was denied voting privileges.


I'm sure you believe that.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> I'm sure you believe that.


I do, and will continue to unless you can show me where anyone’s rights were denied in either the constitution, or Declaration of Independence. As a teacher I would hope you know this basic stuff, or should I say you should know at least the basics if your teaching our kiddies.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> I do, and will continue to unless you can show me where anyone’s rights were denied in either the constitution, or Declaration of Independence. As a teacher I would hope you know this basic stuff,


I do know it. Unfortunately, you don't appear to.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> I do know it. Unfortunately, you don't appear to.


A simple article and section will suffice to clear any confusion as to which of us knows. I’ll wait.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> A simple article and section will suffice to clear any confusion as to which of us knows. I’ll wait.


I was wrong. You can be that obtuse. I didn't think it was possible. Ask yourself the following questions. Why would the 14th Amendment guaranteeing the right to vote for all men 21 and older be necessary if ALL men in that group already had the right in this country? Why would the 19th Amendment guaranteeing the right to vote for women be necessary if women already had the right in this country? Why would the 26th Amendment guaranteeing the right to vote for 18 year olds be necessary if that group already had the right in this country? Use your inferencing skills and think really hard. See if you can come up with it.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> I was wrong. You can be that obtuse. I didn't think it was possible. Ask yourself the following questions. Why would the 14th Amendment guaranteeing the right to vote for all men 21 and older be necessary if ALL men in that group already had the right in this country? Why would the 19th Amendment guaranteeing the right to vote for women be necessary if women already had the right in this country? Why would the 26th Amendment guaranteeing the right to vote for 18 year olds be necessary if that group already had the right in this country? Use your inferencing skills and think really hard. See if you can come up with it.


I’m waiting. Article and section that denies citizenship rights to anyone?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

On the federal level, slavery was never legal. It just wasn't illegal. Slavery has been a part of human history for as long as there have been humans. In the Americas it was practiced on a large scale, bur for a relatively short time. In some parts of the world it is still openly practiced. In Saudia Arabia they openly advertise castrated male slaves for sale, on Craigs List. 

Recently, white Americans seem to revel in this self hating guilt trip, so we hear about how bad slavery was. Yet more people died under Stalin than ever died under slavery in the United States. Today in Afghanistan all girls and women between the ages of 14 and 45, have been placed on a list. The new government intends to gift them as wifes to the Taliban fighters. Yet there are no marches, or mostly peaceful protests. Our government leaders are making secret deals with the Taliban, and have gifted them billions of dollars worth of arms and equipment. Leaving all of that stuff behind was not an accident.

We have more important things to worry about, than something that ended in America 156 years ago. 

An appeaser, is someone who feeds the crocodiles, hoping they will eat him last.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> I’m waiting. Article and section that denies citizenship rights to anyone?


I knew you wouldn't have the intellectual honesty to ask yourself the questions I posed. Is it really that difficult for you to admit that the history of this country, from the founding onward, has not been the happy festival of equal rights for all that you want to fool yourself into believing it was?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> I knew you wouldn't have the intellectual honesty to ask yourself the questions I posed. Is it really that difficult for you to admit that the history of this country, from the founding onward, has not been the happy festival of equal rights for all that you want to fool yourself into believing it was?


I have no quarrel about how the violations of peoples rights took place, and still do. But that wasn’t the question was it? The question was and remains as to where in our founding documents was anyone’s rights denied them? I notice the absence of that particular information. It really does make a difference. Accuracy counts when teaching young impressionable minds.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> An appeaser, is someone who feeds the crocodiles, hoping they will eat him last.


naw, I like them fattened up before I eat them!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Evons hubby said:


> naw, I like them fattened up before I eat them!


Appeasers or crocodiles?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

muleskinner2 said:


> Appeasers or crocodiles?


Both!


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> I have no quarrel about how the violations of peoples rights took place, and still do. But that wasn’t the question was it? The question was and remains as to where in our founding documents was anyone’s rights denied them? I notice the absence of that particular information. It really does make a difference. Accuracy counts when teaching young impressionable minds.


Wow, the extent of the willful blindness you are willing to engage in is truly amazing.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Wow, the extent of the willful blindness you are willing to engage in is truly amazing.





SLFarmMI said:


> When the founding documents of our country restrict full citizenship rights to a limited segment of the population, that's not a "deviation", that's foundational.


still waiting for which founding documents you are referring to here? Accuracy counts!


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> still waiting for which founding documents you are referring to here? Accuracy counts!


And the willful blindness continues. I understand why you don't want to admit that, in fact, there were huge segments of the population who did not have the same rights as others when this country was founded. However, the fact that you don't want to admit that those folks were not guaranteed rights until certain amendments rolled around doesn't make it any less of a fact.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> And the willful blindness continues. I understand why you don't want to admit that, in fact, there were huge segments of the population who did not have the same rights as others when this country was founded. However, the fact that you don't want to admit that those folks were not guaranteed rights until certain amendments rolled around doesn't make it any less of a fact.


Nope, I’ve never denied that some folks were late in the game, just that it’s NOT in our founding documents as you stated. Example: article four section two clearly states otherwise.
“The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.”
your turn…..


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

Evons hubby said:


> Nope, I’ve never denied that some folks were late in the game, just that it’s NOT in our founding documents as you stated. Example: article four section two clearly states otherwise.
> “The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.”
> your turn…..


It's pointless. This won't go anywhere.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kinderfeld said:


> It's pointless. This won't go anywhere.


I know that, you know that. But fun is fun!


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

georger said:


> A lot of this conversation points to too easy access to food, too much time at the computer and not enough time spent working for food.


I have said this before one of my favorite quotes I learned in collage...When much food there is many problems, when there is no food there is only one problem.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Ziptie said:


> I have said this before one of my favorite quotes I learned in collage...When much food there is many problems, when there is no food there is only one problem.


And when the body reaches room temp all problems are solved.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not relevant to the question that was posed which was "What rights were denied to which citizens in which founding documents?"


The founding documents have been amended, and yet people like you are still whining about how it used to be. Our present government leaders seek to enslave the entire country, to further their agenda. They use the economic status of poor minorities and poor whites, to whip up hatred, and call it a fight for equality. Anyone who seeks to disarm you, seeks to enslave you. 

And if anyone complains they are labeled racist, or some nasty white something or other. They allow privately funded terror groups to riot, loot, burn, and attack American citizens. Then they defund the police, and blame the law abiding gun owners because the crime rate goes up. 

Yet when the next election come around, it will be the same old politicians spewing the same old BS, about the same old problems, that they failed to fix the last time they got elected. And the American tax payer will cross his fingers, cast his vote, and pay his taxes. Then when he turns on the news, he gets to hear some whining liberal talking head tell him how it's all his fault for not thinking the correct way, or for not voting for even more insane programs that spend more money and help nobody except the politicians who get to spend the money.

If we taught every white American student how terrible his great, great grandparents were, and how he should hate himself and his entire race because he happens to be white, the whining liberals would find something else to whine about. Yet they would never admit that they can whine, complain, and demand to be heard, because a group of white men wrote a constitution, founded a country, then fought and died so that the whining, crybaby, cowards, could complain about how bad they have it. In a country where men can pretend to be women, and demand to be taken seriously. 

In the same country that elected a black man as president twice, they still whine and complain. And now a white liberal coward, who happened to get elected as president, managed to dishonor the entire nation in the eyes of the world. Give billions of dollars of weapons and equipment, to the worse enemy we have ever had. The Taliban makes Hitler look like a Sunday School teacher. And we are supposed to call this a good thing, then all stand and clap our hands at the progress we are making.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Nutshell:
The founding documents do not mention any exclusions. It was the cultural understanding that women and slaves didn’t have those rights, but it was NOT mentioned in the documents.

Point, game, and match to Evons Hubby.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Nutshell:
> The founding documents do not mention any exclusions. It was the cultural understanding that women and slaves didn’t have those rights, but it was NOT mentioned in the documents.
> 
> Point, game, and match to Evons Hubby.


Nutshell:
Women and people of color didn't have those rights regardless of how much certain members want to claim "well, the language didn't exclude them specifically so they must have had them". Apparently those members think folks went through the amendment process just for fun.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

muleskinner2 said:


> The founding documents have been amended, and yet people like you are still whining about how it used to be. Our present government leaders seek to enslave the entire country, to further their agenda. They use the economic status of poor minorities and poor whites, to whip up hatred, and call it a fight for equality. Anyone who seeks to disarm you, seeks to enslave you.
> 
> And if anyone complains they are labeled racist, or some nasty white something or other. They allow privately funded terror groups to riot, loot, burn, and attack American citizens. Then they defund the police, and blame the law abiding gun owners because the crime rate goes up.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Women and people of color didn't have those right


You are correct, they didn't have those rights. Well, they have them now, and some of them are still whining about how bad they have it.


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## kinderfeld (Jan 29, 2006)

muleskinner2 said:


> You are correct, they didn't have those rights.


I think the point was that they weren't denied these rights due to any exclusion by the founding documents so much as extra-constitutional policy based on the norms of the day. The amendments that "gave" these rights simply reinforced/clarified what was already written.



muleskinner2 said:


> Well, they have them now, and some of them are still whining about how bad they have it.


Yes. Some people just suck. They're just losers. A red carpet of opportunity and all they do is complain. If you want to achieve something bad enough, you'll find a way. If not, you'll find an excuse. It's their own fault that their lives suck.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Nutshell:
> Women and people of color didn't have those rights regardless of how much certain members want to claim "well, the language didn't exclude them specifically so they must have had them". Apparently those members think folks went through the amendment process just for fun.


Certain members never once claimed everyone enjoyed the same rights. Only that the federal government tried its best to see to it they had them. Other members stated blatantly (erroneously as well) that the founding documents denied those rights. They simply do not. Please refrain from teaching our children false information, they get plenty of that from the msm already.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

kinderfeld said:


> I think the point was that they weren't denied these rights due to any exclusion by the founding documents so much as extra-constitutional policy based on the norms of the day. The amendments that "gave" these rights simply reinforced/clarified what was already written.


exactly!


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> Certain members never once claimed everyone enjoyed the same rights. Only that the federal government tried its best to see to it they had them. Other members stated blatantly (erroneously as well) that the founding documents denied those rights. They simply do not. Please refrain from teaching our children false information, they get plenty of that from the msm already.


The Federal government most certainly did not "try its best to see to it that they had them". You are simply delusional if you believe that.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SLFarmMI said:


> Nutshell:
> Women and people of color didn't have those rights regardless of how much certain members want to claim "well, the language didn't exclude them specifically so they must have had them". Apparently those members think folks went through the amendment process just for fun.


Again, you’re willfully dodging the point. As Alice pointed out, the exclusion of equal rights was born out of the cultural norm of the world at that time.

Our nation wasn’t founded to punish anyone but tyrants. The founding principles are what they were, and it took us time to bring ourselves to integrity with them. Our children need to be taught about our past sins and our struggles to work past them, but teaching that our country was founded with the intent of exploiting women and people with different skin colors, for the sole benefit of white men, is a political bastardization of our history, intended only to weaken our nation and open it for a shift to communism.

Teaching about past sins can be done with at least some semblance of objectivity. Time has buffered us from the people involved, and “The History” is mostly settled. Trying to teach about what someone perceives as present-sin inescapably becomes political. One group thinks it’s a sin, another group thinks it isn’t, and it just becomes a conduit for one side to try to indoctrinate the other side’s children over to their politics.

Keep all politics out of the classroom. We’re willing to fight on that point, and we pay the salaries.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> The Federal government most certainly did not "try its best to see to it that they had them". You are simply delusional if you believe that.


They wrote it down in both the constitution and the Declaration of Independence. I’m still waiting for where they denied anyone any rights in either document.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> ...Our nation wasn’t founded to punish anyone but tyrants. The founding principles are what they were, and it took us time to bring ourselves to integrity with them. Our children need to be taught about our past sins and our struggles to work past them, but teaching that our country was founded with the intent of exploiting women and people with different skin colors, for the sole benefit of white men, is a political bastardization of our history, intended only to weaken our nation and open it for a shift to communism...


Well said... but I fear this most excellent post is beyond some peoples comprehension.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> Again, you’re willfully dodging the point. As Alice pointed out, the exclusion of equal rights was born out of the cultural norm of the world at that time.
> 
> Our nation wasn’t founded to punish anyone but tyrants. The founding principles are what they were, and it took us time to bring ourselves to integrity with them. Our children need to be taught about our past sins and our struggles to work past them, but teaching that our country was founded with the intent of exploiting women and people with different skin colors, for the sole benefit of white men, is a political bastardization of our history, intended only to weaken our nation and open it for a shift to communism.
> 
> ...




Look at the hissy fit some HT members threw here over the suggestion that the perspectives of groups other than white male European be brought into the classroom and then see if you can type with a straight face about them wanting topics to be taught with objectivity. Our children also need to be taught that "our struggles to work past" our "past sins" aren't over yet and there is more work to be done. But there is a contingent that doesn't want them to know that. Teaching honest history from multiple perspectives & not the Disney version that some appear to want is not attempting to create a "shift to communism" or and attempt to "indoctrinate" any one's children. 

BTW, you lose any semblance of credibility you may have when you start spouting off about "OMG they're trying to make my kids communists" and "they're indoctrinating my kids".


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Look at the hissy fit some HT members threw here over the suggestion that the perspectives of groups other than white male European be brought into the classroom and then see if you can type with a straight face about them wanting topics to be taught with objectivity. Our children also need to be taught that "our struggles to work past" our "past sins" aren't over yet and there is more work to be done. But there is a contingent that doesn't want them to know that. Teaching honest history from multiple perspectives & not the Disney version that some appear to want is not attempting to create a "shift to communism" or and attempt to "indoctrinate" any one's children.
> 
> BTW, you lose any semblance of credibility you may have when you start spouting off about "OMG they're trying to make my kids communists" and "they're indoctrinating my kids".


Given the preponderance of evidence, those that haven't recognized what is happening in public education that don't recognize what your ilk is doing don't have any credibility. There are good teachers and there are good intentions and ethics with many of them. But, those that deny what is going on with some systems and teachers makes them lose any credibility.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Our children also need to be taught that "our struggles to work past" our "past sins" aren't over yet and there is more work to be done.


I totally agree on this point, we still need to work on equal rights for one large group in this country. Not the right to vote, not the right to own property or borrow money even, just the very basic right to live their lives.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLFarmMI said:


> But there is a contingent that doesn't want them to know that.


Just how big do you think this contingent really is? 1/2 the country? More?

I think it is very small (and was getting smaller) and you are reading into something that is not there.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Our founding principles dwell not so much on what people can do, but what government can not do.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

Why does the term virulent obstinance keep coming to mind on some posts???"


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

barnbilder said:


> Our founding principles dwell not so much on what people can do, but what government can not do.


That is among the larger failures of our education system today. That is also why this nation is in such discord now. Dependence on government largesse has made much of the populace willing serfs.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Hiro said:


> That is among the larger failures of our education system today. That is also why this nation is in such discord now. Dependence on government largesse has made much of the populace willing serfs.


So true, and one of the reasons our founders restricted/prohibited such nonsense. See tenth amendment.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Hiro said:


> Given the preponderance of evidence, those that haven't recognized what is happening in public education that don't recognize what your ilk is doing don't have any credibility. There are good teachers and there are good intentions and ethics with many of them. But, those that deny what is going on with some systems and teachers makes them lose any credibility.


Sad that you apparently think those screaming "it's a Communist plot" and "OMG, indoctrination" have an iota of credibility.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> Sad that you apparently think those screaming "it's a Communist plot" and "OMG, indoctrination" have an iota of credibility.


I am one of the awakened.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Hiro said:


> I am one of the awakened.


You misspelled deluded.


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## homesteadforty (Dec 4, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Sad that you apparently think those screaming "it's a Communist plot" and "OMG, indoctrination" have an iota of credibility.



nuh-uh... you do
nuh-uh... you do
nuh-uh... you do

nah nah na poopy do... jeez


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SLFarmMI said:


> You misspelled deluded.


It must be terribly disappointing that your plot has been recognized and opposed. Wrong nation, even if your county and state continue to fund your efforts.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Hiro said:


> It must be terribly disappointing that your plot has been recognized and opposed. Wrong nation, even if your county and state continue to fund your efforts.


You might want to think about having your meds adjusted.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> You might want to think about having your meds adjusted.


You’re rambling again. How you coming along with finding voting rights being denied to anyone in our constitution?


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Evons hubby said:


> You’re rambling again. How you coming along with finding voting rights being denied to anyone in our constitution?


Your question has already been answered as you well know. If you want to continue the "how obtuse can Evons Hubby be" game, you're on your own.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> Your question has already been answered as you well know. If you want to continue the "how obtuse can Evons Hubby be" game, you're on your own.


No, I hadn’t seen it. I saw diversions, distractions, and numerous other interesting things, but not one reference to any article and section of our constitution denying any one any rights. I’d think if you’re so certain you could point it out.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Evens Hubby posed a question that several folks misunderstood. Now some posts seems to be sour grapes. 

Just my observations.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

SLFarmMI said:


> You might want to think about having your meds adjusted.


Why resort to these rants nearly every time? Why didn't you answer my question? Can you not have an honest discussion about this?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SLFarmMI said:


> I was wrong. You can be that obtuse. I didn't think it was possible. Ask yourself the following questions. Why would the 14th Amendment guaranteeing the right to vote for all men 21 and older be necessary if ALL men in that group already had the right in this country? Why would the 19th Amendment guaranteeing the right to vote for women be necessary if women already had the right in this country? Why would the 26th Amendment guaranteeing the right to vote for 18 year olds be necessary if that group already had the right in this country? Use your inferencing skills and think really hard. See if you can come up with it.


Answer his question.

Post one section of the Constitution that says specifically that blacks could not vote. You know you can't. Your tricks might work on 5th graders, but not here.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Well. I posted my reply to her before I saw what others posted.

It scares me to think there are legions just like the one here teaching our children. Scares the hell out of me. 

Some of you made some great posts. Thanks for that.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> BTW, you lose any semblance of credibility you may have when you start spouting off about "OMG they're trying to make my kids communists" and "they're indoctrinating my kids


Except when it's true.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> Why resort to these rants nearly every time? Why didn't you answer my question? Can you not have an honest discussion about this?


You have an odd definition of "rant". 

It is hard to tell if the contingent of those who do not want kids to know that we have some work to do in this country and that all is not hunky dory is growing larger or if they are just getting more air time for their nonsense. These people apparently don't want an honest discussion of anything. If you are not nodding your head and agreeing that "it's all a communist plot" and "they're indoctrinating our kids" then they aren't interested.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

We need a Pinochet.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SLFarmMI said:


> You have an odd definition of "rant".
> 
> It is hard to tell if the contingent of those who do not want kids to know that we have some work to do in this country and that all is not hunky dory is growing larger or if they are just getting more air time for their nonsense. These people apparently don't want an honest discussion of anything. If you are not nodding your head and agreeing that "it's all a communist plot" and "they're indoctrinating our kids" then they aren't interested.


The operative word here is “honest”. I’m not apposed to honest discussions with our kids about most any topic. But let’s be sure we aren’t using half truths, distortions etc to promote an agenda.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> We need a Pinochet.


I fear there may be one in our future. I am not sure if he will Pino to the left, or chet to the right, but one may be a coming under the guise of bringing us all together.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> We need a Pinochet.


That or a pinot noir.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Well. I posted my reply to her before I saw what others posted.
> 
> It scares me to think there are legions just like the one here teaching our children. Scares the hell out of me.
> 
> Some of you made some great posts. Thanks for that.


One of the reasons we decided to homeschool our daughter. Our son made it through public school but it really opened our eyes. We've become much more involved in the education of our kids and are holding the teachers and school boards accountable for their actions. Were getting like minded parents seated on the board to the dismay of the liberals. It's fabulous. We, can change things but it takes time.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> that we have some work to do in this country


What is it we need to do, that we aren't already doing? What are the huge problems we need to teach kids about?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> Not relevant to the question that was posed which was "What rights were denied to which citizens in which founding documents?"


So, to be clear, you are all upset about a wrong that no longer exists?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

SLFarmMI said:


> The Federal government most certainly did not "try its best to see to it that they had them". You are simply delusional if you believe that.


At this point, what difference does it make?


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

So you are a racist or some superior type of jerk?

CRT is racism. Period. Equity is racism. 

Get a job.


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

mreynolds said:


> If we are going to be worrying about slavery in the bible, shouldn't we be thinking about giving the Jews reparations then?
> 
> Or that would be what Egypt owes anyway.



Not only the Egytians oweing the Jews, what about the Germans and English? Those nasty Romans (Italians) owe me something for that (for the dense, this was sarcasm)


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## B&L Chicken Ranch and Spa (Jan 4, 2019)

JeffreyD said:


> First Nations peoples.....what are YOU doing to stop YOUR government from continuing the torture and oppression of them?


The important word in your statement is "DID". 
America has done many wrongs. 
What makes US unique is our continual drive to correct those mistakes and not LIVE IN THE PAST.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Evons hubby said:


> I’m impressed! How can you come down on the wrong side of every discussion??


It's a gift.


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