# Farm Crisis 2014 - ?



## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Iâve lived most of my life in a farm state. I was raised with dad listening to the farm market reports at noon. While I donât intentionally turn of the farm reports anymore, I was working in the kitchen last week when our local radio station farm report was on. They were interviewing a farm economist with Iowa State University. I was shocked to hear him talking to farmers saying we are headed for another farm crisis similar to the 1980's and that the farmers should not expect earnings in the next few year to come close to what earning have been lately. The economist also said he looks for numerous farm bankruptcies like the 1980.

The 1980's were a double whammy for us. Dh was manager of a farm store that closed and he was out of work for 3 years. At the same time that dhâs store closed Hormel Meat packing plant closed, Iowa Beef closed, a farm manufacturing plant closed. For several years you could not give away a house in our area. I worked for an attorney doing bankruptcies so I saw daily the angst all of this caused. Unfortunately, more than a few farmers chose suicide after seeing their whole lifestyle disappear.

Iâve been saying for the last couple of years that this was coming, but was totally shocked to hear it stated so clearly by an ISU economist in a public forum. Farm income and prices for farmland have ridden up, up, up on corn sold for ethanol. Most corn is GMO which is not exported and cannot be exported to many (most?) countries. Its trucked to the nearest ethanol plant which have sprung up like mushrooms all over the landscape. Farm land in our area is selling for $10,000 per acre - - FARM crop land, not land for development. Iâve asked all along what can be produced on $10,000 (and up) per acre land that is profitable enough to warrant that $10,000 purchase price? Iâm thinking not much.

What will result be for the rest of us of a farm crisis? Small town businesses will close as farmers disappear (not that many are left since the 1980 crisis). Small farms will be gobbled up by huge corporations. Jobs will disappear in farm related fields. Some banks heavily into agricultural loans will fail. Implement dealers will close. Dominoes will keep falling. 

In light of the U.S. economy as a whole I have to wonder if this might turn out to be the last straw.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

A lot of us farmers have been thinking the same thing. I remember the 80's.


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## sand flea (Sep 1, 2013)

Even if it's not the last straw, it's going to be bad. Too many things lining up wrong economically, with the gov, and people being told health insurance means they don't have to work... sigh...

But we don't have time or luxury for more outraged rants. Time to get our seeds ordered, look into chicken coops, etc. With propane & diesel going up - how much longer till gas goes up? And at what point, does it cost more to go to a part-time job than it does for the gas to get there?


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Farming any more is just like big box stores... Unless you have millions to invest in an operation, have incredible buying power, and can hire cheap labor,there's just not much profit in much of anything for the smaller guys... 

Food has been forced into corporate control, and it's only going to get worse.. Hence all the laws that purposely hurt the little guy, that only the big guys can afford to deal with.

This country for a long time has been working to put the little guy out of business and allow only the massive companies to thrive... Look at most any industry out there now... many are down to "The Big" Three"


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Talked to a corn farmer around here a few months ago. Sold his big big farm for way more than he bought it for. Didn't know about captial gain taxes and that hurt his gain really bad. Bought a smaller farm 100+ acres and was planning to other land rent and farm his. Rent last year was... I want to say $385-$400 per acre, something like that. He knew he could never make a profit on that and passed. So just farmed his place. Great crop but prices were so low that he ended up losing $4,000 in the end(not sure if that was before or after gov subsidy). But, he is planting corn again next year. Was trying to talk him into planting sorghum (we pay $19 for a 50lb bag of cleaned white sorghum). Nope only corn.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

And there is the issue to me, the subsidies....stop paying people to plant or not to plant, etc.

Also, if you look at 10,000 per acre and try to get that return in 1 year, you wouldn't make it (at least not legally). But if you amortize it out, as long as you are clearing a profit from your expenses then you can make it work.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Not much is sadder than working 365 days in a row, to just lose money.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

Ziptie said:


> Talked to a corn farmer around here a few months ago. Sold his big big farm for way more than he bought it for. Didn't know about captial gain taxes and that hurt his gain really bad. Bought a smaller farm 100+ acres and was planning to other land rent and farm his. Rent last year was... I want to say $385-$400 per acre, something like that. He knew he could never make a profit on that and passed. So just farmed his place. Great crop but prices were so low that he ended up losing $4,000 in the end(not sure if that was before or after gov subsidy). But, he is planting corn again next year. Was trying to talk him into planting sorghum (we pay $19 for a 50lb bag of cleaned white sorghum). Nope only corn.


Same thing happened to us. We sold one of our farms and the Capital Gain taxes killed us at 19. something per cent plus we have the 4.8 % Obamacare tax added also.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

What we're seeing are the unintended consequences of the government tilting the marketplace with subsidies and crony capitalism. Left to its own devices the marketplace rights itself, but when someone is choosing winners, there will be losers.

The government created a market for corn through subsidies to the ethanol manufacturers, and skewed the market. Politicians and lobbyists playing God with the economy never ends well.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

It gets me to hear these commercials on the radio 

"You need to thank your farmer, he works 7 days a week, to provide you with food".

I laugh, since I know that the farmer is not working to provide me with food, he is providing his family with money, roof, food, etc. Farmers aren't producing food out of the kindness of their heart, they are doing it for a living, so if it doesn't make financial sense (or cents) then like anyone else in another profession, change jobs to something that does.

So, yes it is sad to work 365 days to lose money, but it also means that you might need to get another job......


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Farming - the only business where you buy retail, sell wholesale and pay the freight both ways.

My Iowa farmer great-uncle made good money growing popcorn when microwave popcorn was an expanding market. There was no "farm crisis" for him. I trust that there are still farmers who can think outside the box and find alternatives to dent corn and soybeans. In this area, have seen more winter wheat in recent years.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm waiting to see how big hemp farming is going to become.. The market for it is growing..

Problem is, it's going to be so highly regulated only the big companies can afford to do it..


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

The farm bill has nothing to do with farming. Most of it is Food stamps. That is where the crises is. Farmers will get by but those on food stamps will not.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

The grain market has been driven by drought for the last several years. Any body that gambled on the market staying where it was is fixing to get a serious lesson.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

So many farmers are locked into gov subsidies so have to do the corn/soybeans thing. I only know of two farmers who always refused government programs. One died a few years back and the other I read about in the newspaper. 

It is difficult to raise something different in an area where almost 100% are growing corn/soybeans. The chemicals for corn/soybeans often are not compatible with other crops and now days those chemicals are often sprayed from airplanes. 

In the early 90's we did a lot of bankruptcies for farmers. Chapter 7 liquidations not Chapter 12 reorganizations. Many of the farmers sold off their equipment and sometimes their land before filing bankruptcy which cost them big time in capital gains. It would have been much smarter to have filed Chapter 7 retaining the land and equipment and to have surrendered those assets to the bank in the bankruptcy and not have had any tax consequences. As it was the banks got the money from the sales and the farmers got the huge capital gains taxes which did not go away in bankruptcy. 

I'm totally unhappy with the direction this country is headed. Big government getting bigger daily. Rules, regulations, laws and then more of the same. IRS has too much power and abuses it. A President who somehow has made Congress moot and is doing law making on his own. Scary times.


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## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

joseph97297 said:


> It gets me to hear these commercials on the radio
> 
> "You need to thank your farmer, he works 7 days a week, to provide you with food".
> 
> ...


Joe, you haven't a clue, and I know because you wouldn't put in 10-16 hours a day, 300 plus days a year to lose money. The keepers livestock and tillers of the soil are the most NOBLE of all occupations, and many do it for the same reason missionaries live under a leaky roof, eating rice and beans, in what most would consider poverty - because it's not a "job", it's a "calling". Those are the farmers and food producers we need more of. It's the corporate 'producers' who have the pull to write themselves subsidies in the farm bill, who strive for profit at any cost (can we say 9 million pounds of recalled beef made from sick cows?), that are content with slave labour, using banned chemicals in other countries that poisons their soil, water and air, then importing that food and feeding you shi_, because THAT is profitable. In general, doing the things that guarantee the demise of those who give a darn about the food they raise, because doing so usually means it costs more, and YOU, the consumer want cheap more than anything else, regardless of what it costs later or to someone else.

I can well understand why a farmer would rather die than punch a clock, even IF there was another job available, and in most cases, there isn't. Gotta remember, a LOT of jobs in rural areas are related to serving the farming community, and when the farms die, so does the rest of the community, so it isn't just the farmer who is out of work. Even in less rural areas the only reason the unemployment stats look anywhere as good as they do, is the vast number of people who are no longer looking for work, who have gone on SSD, or have 'retired early' (with little hope their retirement funds will hold out, but 'the gov will pick up the tab, later'). 

Perhaps you have a "good, secure job". Perhaps you can feed yourself indefinitely if TSHTF. Even so, you should be thankful that there are people who care more about place, about community, about preserving the soil and their way of life for future generations - the things that really mater, than about that incidental called 'profit'.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Andy, you have it 100% right. Small farms have been the backbone of the country and they are disappearing like snow in June.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> Andy, you have it 100% right. Small farms have been the backbone of the country and they are disappearing like snow in June.


Small farm - what does that really mean? Back in the homesteading days, one man could claim 160 acres to farm and they were doing it with horse, mule and oxen power. So today's tractor can do the work of x amount of draft horses, farmers can farm x amount more land. It's all relative.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> Andy, you have it 100% right. Small farms have been the backbone of the country and they are disappearing like snow in June.



Yep......NO FARMS.......NO FOOD ! and it's not always about money. I don't want my family and friends eating junk. 

I saw my dad plowing behind a mule day in and day out. If he was still alive and I told him that it was all about the "money"......well let's just say I knew better. It was a way of life !

Yep I plow with a tractor now and I can tell you it's not all about the money. I still care too !


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## paulty_logic (Jan 15, 2014)

MO_cows said:


> Small farm - what does that really mean? Back in the homesteading days, one man could claim 160 acres to farm and they were doing it with horse, mule and oxen power. So today's tractor can do the work of x amount of draft horses, farmers can farm x amount more land. It's all relative.


In my mind small farm can be anywhere from 5 acres on up to 160. I would never consider 2000 acres a small farm. But.. when you get right down to it, it's not the actual space, it's how much land you need to support your family and have enough to actually pull a bit of a profit from. It's also the size that is reasonable for people starting out to be able to afford. Vague at best. I think the idea of UK/Europe smallholding is an especially valid definition(under 50 acres).


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Andy Nonymous said:


> Joe, you haven't a clue, and I know because you wouldn't put in 10-16 hours a day, 300 plus days a year to lose money.


I sure wouldn't put in those hours, those days to lose money. I would do what it takes to make sure my kids and my family have the 'money' in order to have a roof, food, clothes to not only survive but to enjoy life. If that means to grow something else or choose another profession, so be it.

Sure, I agree that the small farms are the backbone, but even then, most of them are smart enough to know that if it isn't working, switch it up. Plant something else, raise rabbits, do something to make sure that "money' can come on in.

You say it like it is a dirty word....."profit". It may be a calling, and hey, good for you or them if it is a calling. But don't whine about not making a 'profit' or how tight the money is when you are doing your calling, after all, your calling.....your choice.

Do I have the capability to grow all I need if SHTF? Only the basics for survival, but for the 'enjoyment items' I don't fret over because I know that there is someone out there looking to make a 'profit' and will produce that what we want (not need, but want). Always has been, right? And if not, then we move on to something else.

I'm not bashing the farmer who loses money, or at least not meaning to. But to lament and talk about how sad it is, sorry I won't do it. They choose that profession, be it their calling or for profit. 

What about someone who opens a bakery because they have a calling. Let's say it cost them 12 dollars to prepare, bake, ice and box a cake. If they sell that cake for 10 dollars....should I feel bad for them? Oh, the market won't let them sell it at 16? Too bad, choose another cake that doesn't have the cost input or make the demand there. 

Would you feel sorry for that baker? Would we be discussing that situation or would it go the way that it should, "Bad business decision?". But, but it may be their calling.......


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## jbo9 (Oct 30, 2012)

While there are some similarities to the 80s for the farm economy, there are also some major differences.

One of those differences is that much of the land that is being purchased is not financed through the banks but paid in cash. The farmers can pay that much for land because the prices for commodities have been very high. They've upgraded their equipment and chased the latest technology. The only thing left is more land.

The trigger for the crisis in the 80s were farmers who had borrowed money to buy land and equipment and then faced rising interest rates. That's very different from today.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Ziptie, just how many of those 50 bags will you buy from him. If you would contract to buy a few thousand he may plant it for you. The retail price has little to do with what the farmer is getting paid. In the local grocery stores a 5lb bag of cornmeal is $5, today a farmer will get around $4 for a 56lb bushel. The cornmeal is over $55/bushel.
About those subsidies, they are ending as cash payments. Crop insurance will still be subsidized. No one had to plant corn or soybeans to collect the subsidy in the past. The subsidy was figured on past planting history, but if you wanted to plant alfalfa you could collect your subsidy. Fruits and vegetables were not allowed to be planted on subsidy acres without loseing it.
I agree some of the young tigers in the farming community are going to get hurt.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

joseph. there is one difference in your analogy. The baker sets his price for that cake. The farmer has no pricing power.
Having said that. I agree farming is a business or a hobby it can not be both.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Andy Would you send us at least one of your spare benevolent farmers :sob:
Ours here grow corn and beans running 15,000 acres or more and putting up million bushel grain bins . Never knew they were doing this so the poor folks could come by for a bag of corn meal . 

We have very few small row croppers here and it is dog eat dog on renting more land  An't a farmer in two hundred miles would let you sweep up their spills to feed your chickens with either :sob:


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

Jim that's the difference in area I think. Here all you have is row crop farmers and most all that is vegetables any more. We got sold out years ago on the tobacco end. The only ones making money on tobacco now is the organic tobacco farmers. Every one here is basically still working for wadges. No new tractors, combines etc. Still running the older stuff.

I suspect if I wanted rented land around here I could be plowing before the sun set. Of coarse today we would have to push snow first. :grin: 

I know that it is a dog eat world but there are some true farmers that still care.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Perhaps "small" farm is related to attitude not size. To me a small farm is more of a homestead type farm where they seek first to be as self-sufficient as possible and add income production to that foundation. Most farmers in this area are huge, do not have a garden or any animals. 

Its extremely hard for a farmer to move outside the USDA, FSA and bankers view of farming and survive. Back in the late 1970's dh wanted to farm. His picture of farming was to buy older equipment and spend the winter fixing it ready for spring planting. We had the money for a years of family expenses saved. The only way we could get financing was if we both worked off the farm and bought new or at least newer equipment. We had spent a great deal of time and effort formulating what I still consider a good business plan. The main thing that the powers that be could not accept was our ability to live very frugally. Of course, we were fortunate not to be able to get started farming because we would have gone under in the 80's farm crisis as we would have been too heavily financed.

We had a friend who inherited a 120 acre farm. He farmed it and raised 4 kids on that land. They never gardened or kept animals. He did not buy big equipment preferring to custom contract harvest. He hated farming and felt trapped, but that small farm provided a decent living for his family. Every time I visited I felt almost ill at their lack of self-sufficiency. So again attitude determines "small" farm more than size.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

So how much profit should a farmer be allowed to make, just enough to pay the bills? Or should it be enough that he can buy his wife and kids all the things their city relatives have?

Some posting on these farmer threads have their idealistic dreams standing in the way of understanding what it actually takes to operate a farm in todays world.


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## ET1 SS (Oct 22, 2005)

I am not in a 'Farm belt' area, it is mostly just rural forest here.

'Farms' here are mostly between 4 and 20 acres. They produce veggies and many use greenhouses.

It is a different kind of farming: small-scale and organic.

I produce pork, honey, maple and a selection of veggies.

My father raised beef and share-cropped Almond orchards out West. He would have been really insulted at anyone using the term 'farming' if they had less than 500 acres.

But today, I see plenty small farms who are able to support their families.


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## paulty_logic (Jan 15, 2014)

Allen W said:


> So how much profit should a farmer be allowed to make, just enough to pay the bills? Or should it be enough that he can buy his wife and kids all the things their city relatives have?
> 
> Some posting on these farmer threads have their idealistic dreams standing in the way of understanding what it actually takes to operate a farm in todays world.


I wasn't commenting on how much they would be able to make, just that they have the capacity to be solvent from their products. If they can make a profit, great, more power to them, but at the end of the day we at least need to cover our expenses and be able to survive. The smallest amount of land capable of doing this is what I would consider a small farm.

I'm completely pragmatic when it comes to the business side of farming. It doesn't matter how much you love farming, or how much you are willing to sacrifice. if you are consistently losing money, it's only a matter of time before you are completely broke, or your property gets repossessed/sold for back taxes.


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

bruce2288 said:


> Ziptie, just how many of those 50 bags will you buy from him. If you would contract to buy a few thousand he may plant it for you. The retail price has little to do with what the farmer is getting paid. In the local grocery stores a 5lb bag of cornmeal is $5, today a farmer will get around $4 for a 56lb bushel. The cornmeal is over $55/bushel.
> About those subsidies, they are ending as cash payments. Crop insurance will still be subsidized. No one had to plant corn or soybeans to collect the subsidy in the past. The subsidy was figured on past planting history, but if you wanted to plant alfalfa you could collect your subsidy. Fruits and vegetables were not allowed to be planted on subsidy acres without loseing it.
> I agree some of the young tigers in the farming community are going to get hurt.


I would only buy about 150 bushels. The only reason I buy in 50lb bags is that is the only way the feed mill can get them(and they won't tell me where the sorghum is coming from).


Another interesting fact. When we first moved here 4 years ago I wanted to see what kinds of ag loans were out there. Talking to the main USDA loan officer for the area. He told me that around here corn grown for human consumption is considered a speciality crop in the same category as organic farming and such.:gaptooth:


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## edjewcollins (Jun 20, 2003)

"The keepers livestock and tillers of the soil are the most NOBLE of all occupations".

I have to agree with a previous poster, anyone that works hard to support their family is as noble as any farmer. I have nothing against farmers and appreciate their efforts just as they should appreciate mine. I don't however, believe there is any difference between them choosing a living and anyone else doing so. I work full time and also run a business. I also process and sell firewood. I do this so my wife can stay home and raise our daughters so they become productive members of society and not a burden to society. Am I any less noble?


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

edjewcollins, I do not think I would use the word noble as a description of an;yone based on their profession. I am a farmer and no different or better than anyone else. I do not see farming as some higher calling orsacrifice for society. I farm because it is what I want to do. Yes I have a lower standard of living than if I were still teaching, but it is a decision I made.I find it interesting here that farmers are put on a pedestal and also villified so often.


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## palm farmer (Jan 3, 2014)

Something that has struck me as I watch local farms shrink and the economy slip, people here are hinting it's like the 80's.......looks to me like it will be the 80's all over again, but this time we will be in Russia's shoes, lots of stagnation, just treading water and trying to figure out how to keep ourselves afloat, lots of imported food at great cost because at least locally a lot of the good farm land has been turned into subdivisions.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

It will be interesting to see how all of this unfolds. If farmers are more or less debt free, will a drastic drop in income sink them or just result in not buying that new pickup or combine? Obviously, if they are in debt they are sunk. I wonder what property taxes are on $10,000 an acre land -- and if that's the price its selling for that's the level that all land in the county will be assessed.

As a whole, I think the key to the economic funk is the deficit. How can we grow as a country when we are overwhelming in debt? No well run company is going to want to expand with the uncertainty of not only the economy but also the constantly increasing and changing government regulations. 

I think it would be nice (mild word!) to wipe 99% of all laws, rules, regulations off the books, eliminate 50% (or more) of government departments and start over using some common sense. Maybe we need a third party called the Common Sense Party.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

In my area of the Midwest, there's a big difference between subsistence farming and commercial farming. Subsistence farmers are the ones that are closer to what most of us think of as homesteaders or small farmers. They grow a good deal of the food needed to feed their own families and many have a bit extra that they sell locally, mostly through the farmer's markets. Most of them do it for the lifestyle and few make a very large profit. However, unless independently wealthy, even few of them can afford to go into the red for many years.

The commercial farmers are strictly business. Many are corporately owned. They focus primarily on the bottom line and don't really care what they are growing/raising, so long as it makes a profit. They are usually monocrop operations and the farmer/farm manager and family usually buys just as much of their food from the grocery store as do the people living in the apartment in town.

Neither one is superior to the other. There is nothing wrong with choosing to sacrifice and work hard to provide a particular way of life for your family, nor is there anything wrong with taking a job on a commercial farm operation where all decisions are made on the basis of profit.

I think part of the problem regarding agriculture in our country is that a majority of the population/consumers are still of the belief that farms and farmers are the way they were back in the first half of the 1900's, while the reality is much, much different. Because of this, it is very difficult to have any kind of meaningful dialog about the topic of subsidies, environmental regulations, food safety, etc., because most of the people in the conversation are on a totally different page than reality.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

ovsfarm said:


> In my area of the Midwest, there's a big difference between subsistence farming and commercial farming. Subsistence farmers are the ones that are closer to what most of us think of as homesteaders or small farmers. They grow a good deal of the food needed to feed their own families and many have a bit extra that they sell locally, mostly through the farmer's markets. Most of them do it for the lifestyle and few make a very large profit. However, unless independently wealthy, even few of them can afford to go into the red for many years.
> 
> The commercial farmers are strictly business. Many are corporately owned. They focus primarily on the bottom line and don't really care what they are growing/raising, so long as it makes a profit. They are usually monocrop operations and the farmer/farm manager and family usually buys just as much of their food from the grocery store as do the people living in the apartment in town.
> 
> ...


You made a lot of good points here!

I just need to split one hair - the "corporate owned" deal. Most farms are corporations nowadays because there are tax advantages and also it makes succession planning easier. 

It's easy for land, improvements, equipment, grain in the bins and livestock to be worth more than the limit on inheritance tax. If you don't incorporate, then your kids have to come up with $1 million dollars inheritance tax on a $2 million farm or some such madness. They have to sell the farm to pay the inheritance tax on the farm! The tax codes are what has driven more farmers to incorporate than not.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

The thing is, generalizing about farmers is sheer folly, as there is no farm that is exactly the same on this planet. We are like fingerprints, dna, or snowflakes. Each farm is different, has had different luck, a different start and backing, different debt loads, etc.

And saying commercial farms are outside some kind of mold, are somehow worse, or somehow care less about the soil and more about the money, is quite dangerous. 

I operate a commercial farm, in that I make my living farming. But I also am a "subsistence" farm, in that I grow or hunt almost all our food, all of which is from our own land we own. I farm what many think is big acres. I even use herbicides and commercial fertilizer. (oh the horror!)  But I garden, raise sheep, chickens, horses, hunt for most of our meat needs, and I have plans for goats, pigs, etc. There are many of us out there. Just because one has a certain acreage, a certain number of head, a certain way of raising their farm crops, or stock, does not mean we do not still take care of ourselves and are not sustainable. I have been accused and asked on this forum more than a couple times, why I am even on this site. I plant a gmo crop, canola. I use herbicides as required. The lack of understanding is simply so immense. Because I am a commercial farm, Folks seem to think I should not be interested in laying hens or goats...

My farm is enormous to some of you. But I raise small grains and sheep, and both take a lot of acres to make enough money to make a living off of. My farm is one of the smallest in our area. 

Something folks tend to forget, is that the romantic notion that used to be a fact, where uncle Clem and his mules did everything without fuel, or herbicides, or fertilizers, or big machinery:

In the 1940's, how much money was needed to make a living in a year? A thousand bucks? In 2014, it takes a MUCH larger amount of income to even survive. Folks forget that what was possible then, is no longer possible. To remain farming, growth became necessary to keep up to the income needs required to survive.

As farms got bigger, the disconnect of non-farming people got more vast. Hence some have this kind of a hatred for "commercial" farms. First, they fail to realize the nature of the farming business. Second, they fail to know how farming has changed and why. Third, they forget that in 1940, Uncle Clem simply did not need much land to survive.

Margins are low. Weather is fickle. Costs are high. I burn in a year, an amount of diesel and gasoline that many would find staggering, and it is not cheap. Oil is expensive, parts prices are obscene. Every time I go to town, it costs me 25 dollars in gas. My seeding tractor holds 250 gallons of diesel, and even under a no tillage system, I still burn that tank before two days are over.

Things are different now. Do I think there is a crisis? Yes, there always has been, and it appears there always will be. Not a crisis, so much as a continual roller coaster of prices and input costs. Last year, I was getting 8 dollars a bushel for my wheat. This year, I am getting 4. 

What other occupation has this little control over the prices of what they produce? What other occupation takes a 50% pay cut year over year? Actually, the way margins work, it is a 50% gross pay cut, and more like a 100% net pay cut, depending on how lucky you were in the yield department.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

I wanted to ad. I am not excited in general about super huge farms, the ones with way more land and such that they need. And I am also not impressed by big machinery etc. What I mean to say, is that a crisis for some is self caused.

Some guys who feel they HAVE to have that expensive land, that new combine, put themselves into a pickle of a debt load. 

Do you guys realize what a new combine is worth??? A tiny touch less than $500 000. .....It is CRAZY. Especially when you can get a ten year old one for half or less the price, or a twenty year old one, with lots of life left still, like the one I have, for 5% of the price, because for some farmers, it isn't good enough for them!!! lol.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

farmer dale, I understand where your coming from. Around here you do not see any new equipment, unless it's a new wahoo that thinks that's what you got to have to start with. They will find out. This was tobacco country and that has gone by the way-side. There is however a few organic tobacco farmers and they seem to be doing really good but still riding around in older trucks, older tractors etc. IMO it's the only way they can make it.

We see some farmers leaning more to organic and even some that operate 2 different farms, one organic and one not. They are covering both markets to make ends meet. On the labor side most that are large enough use migrant labor during the summer, and family the rest of the time. You will probably laugh but a large farm around here is probably 500 acres and that's a monster. 

I think it all relates to what you are comfortable doing and of coarse how much you need to make. I've seen some market gardeners make a good living on a couple of acres raising organic food. At the same time the 500 acre farmer working 20 people may or may not clear as much as the small organic farmer. I guess what I'm trying to say is, what ever your happy doing be it small or large makes no difference as long as you can make a living at it.

Thanks for your honesty.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

farmerDale said:


> I wanted to ad. I am not excited in general about super huge farms, the ones with way more land and such that they need. And I am also not impressed by big machinery etc. What I mean to say, is that a crisis for some is self caused.
> 
> Some guys who feel they HAVE to have that expensive land, that new combine, put themselves into a pickle of a debt load.
> 
> Do you guys realize what a new combine is worth??? A tiny touch less than $500 000. .....It is CRAZY. Especially when you can get a ten year old one for half or less the price, or a twenty year old one, with lots of life left still, like the one I have, for 5% of the price, because for some farmers, it isn't good enough for them!!! lol.




That used combine is like a good used car. If someone does not buy the new ones there are not any used ones to buy. I live in the heart of the grain belt where it is flat,black and expensive ground. If you want to rent cropland in this area you will #1 mow the road sides like your lawn and#2 you will have a modern line of equipment. Doesn't make you a better farmer but it is like wearing your ''good'' clothes to a job interview.


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## Sanza (Sep 8, 2008)

[_QUOTE=joseph97297;6953658]It gets me to hear these commercials on the radio _

_"You need to thank your farmer, he works 7 days a week, to provide you with food"._

_I laugh, since I know that the farmer is not working to provide me with food_ 


I'm guessing you never heard the phrase "If you ate today thank a farmer"

Did you say you grow all your food yourself?


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

To lighten things up a bit. We were at the Iowa State Fair one year and dh was looking at the new farming equipment. There was this huge combine head that looked like two passes would cover an acre. Dh says to me loudly he thinks he should buy that -- it wouldn't take any time at all to harvest his 40 acres. The guys standing around mouth's all dropped open until they got he was joking.

Dh took our youngest grandson to the local implement dealership to climb into various large tractors and combines. Grandson is a city kid and dh wanted him to know what various equipment was for and what it cost. He thought it was important that grandson understood at least a little bit about today's farmer.

When I drive by the ethanol plant I always look at the cash corn price. I recall when it was $8 or thereabouts and thought at the time that is not sustainable. I also wished I had a semi load of corn to deliver.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Sanza said:


> I'm guessing you never heard the phrase "If you ate today thank a farmer"
> 
> Did you say you grow all your food yourself?



What I ate yesterday...yes, I did. 

But for the asparagus I am going to eat today? No, so according to that logic, I need to thank the farmer for growing it, the guy who picks it, the person who shipped it, the grocer who stocks it, the guy who checks me out, then I need to thank the gas company who provides the gas for me to drive my truck (oh, thanks by the way to Dodge for making my truck), the city worker who paved the road, the electric company for providing the electricity to light the store and run the register, the county worker who scraped my county road for snow so I could get out....not to mention the American government who subsidizes farming so that 'farmers' can survive.

Then there are still multiple people that I would need to thank. Now, many would just say that the truck driver is making a living, not a calling, so why single out the 'farmer' as the only link? Shouldn't everyone in that chain be afforded the 'respect'?

So I guess it should be:

"If you ate today thank a farmer, truck driver, grocer, city worker, etc, etc, etc....and your husband/wife who drove to the store to pick up your food."

So I guess, since I pay taxes, and that money helps fund the roads, pays the county and city worker, helps subsidize the farmers, that I should get some thanks as well?

Not trying to rag on farmers, but they are in it to make a living as well as the driver, city worker, etc.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

I would say that the farmer has much more skin in the game, and an inordinate amount of risk, vs. the other folks you mention. 

The trucker gets a steady paycheck. The picker gets a steady paycheck. The grocer knows his cost, and can price in a profit.

But the farmer has no steady paycheck, has infinite weather risk, takes the price the market will pay, assumes all the risk until it leaves his farm, and in many cases until delivery is complete. The farmer has no idea when his next paycheck will come. The farmer spends hundreds of thousands of dollars, in hopes of having a positive margin with no guarantees.

I think that is what the expression came from. The farmer has by FAR, the most risk, the least consistent paycheck...

Yes, I farm to try to make a living, just like everyone else. I love what I do. Farming is my business. But it is also a way of life. The main thing is it is very hard to compare it to any other business or way of life. It has nothing in common with any other business or way of life. 

Look at the insane risks. And the semi load of corn? Well, maybe at 8 dollars, it was worth 12 000 bucks. Sounds like a pretty penny right, for just one load. But it is not like the margin is 12 000. It may be more like 2 000 net to the farmer, after he pays everyone else, after having assumed ALL the risk.

It is simply not that clearcut.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

The asparagus you might eat today.......the ground was cultivated by me...

The organic compost that went into the rows was made by....... me & God. 

When it's time to check for bugs and worms they are removed by hand by........me & the wife

When it's time to fertilize with compost again it's done by........me.

When it's time to pull row covers over the asparagus because of a sudden drop in temps in April, it's pulled over it by.........me.

When's it's time to be cut, it's cut by.......me & the wife every other day and sometimes everyday.

When it's washed, packaged, weighed, and loaded in the truck........yep me & the wife.

When the truck gets gas, insurance, oil......it's all on me.

When the truck leaves for market.......it's the wife.

When for some reason it don't sell (market flooded by Mexico) it's all on.........me.....no one else.

Even though I'm a small farmer........it's still on .....me. 

Sorry I've got to go and scrape my own road of snow, county don't come out this far. It's on... me.


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## joseph97297 (Nov 20, 2007)

Tarheel.... that is assuming that I eat your aspargus, which I am not....so moot point in regards as to whom I need to thank.

But yes, it is on you..... because it is your choice? No?

But let's take a look at your statement:

Did you make the row covers, or did you buy them? 

Do you make your own gas?

Etc, etc....

see, it's not all on you. If the gas station is out of gas, you don't get to drive or plow your own road.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to buy local and support a farmer, but the area here doesn't have a market.

Like I said, I am not knocking farmers, big or small. Just stating that it is not as simple as "If you ate today, thank a farmer". There are more links in the chain, are there not.

As to the risk, I agree, but is that not a personal choice. Tell you what, you let me know where here in America someone is forcing another person to farm and I'll load up and head out there with you to right that wrong. So let me know.......

Otherwise, if you don't like not knowing that you have a steady check or don't like the risk associated with your _chosen_ profession/life/hobby then make _another_ choice. It is pretty simple.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Well, as long as someone chooses to be a farmer I guess you'll be eating. When problems force the farmer to stop farming, then what? 

Sure there is a supply chain. But and this is a big BUT, everyone else in the chain is guaranteed his or her income. If you want gas, you have to pay for the gas at market price. The farmer takes a huge risk in buying in all the crop inputs, putting in all his labor, gambling on the weather only to find the price of his crop has dropped from $8 a bu to $4 a bu. The farmer has no control over cost of inputs, the weather or the ultimate price for his crop. Basically the farmer has only two choices to farm with all the risks involved or not to farm. 

That's why we should thank the farmer.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

When that farmer decides to quit I would venture to say someone will fill the void. When I was a child 80 acres would provide for all of a family's needs. How many acres does it take today? All of those farms were absorbed and the ground is still producing. Just as an honest question, how many hours do you think a farmer works in the off season? Why is a farmer any different than any other small business owner?


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

I run cattle on 320 acres and own a trucking company (well one truck now) neither one offers any guarantees of a profit. I do it because i love it, but realize if I don't profit my family suffers.

Both require you to purchase inputs at retail and if your not careful you sell your product at wholesale. 

It still just baffles me some of the things people will do like buying equipment because they will get tax advantages, keep doing the same things because Grandpa and dad did it that way and made money, the list goes on and on.

Around here the biggest problem I see is small farmers don't run the place as a business, while that may work when commodity prices are high for a few years what happens when you get a fall in prices.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> Well, as long as someone chooses to be a farmer I guess you'll be eating. When problems force the farmer to stop farming, then what?
> 
> Sure there is a supply chain. But and this is a big BUT, everyone else in the chain is guaranteed his or her income. If you want gas, you have to pay for the gas at market price. The farmer takes a huge risk in buying in all the crop inputs, putting in all his labor, gambling on the weather only to find the price of his crop has dropped from $8 a bu to $4 a bu. The farmer has no control over cost of inputs, the weather or the ultimate price for his crop. Basically the farmer has only two choices to farm with all the risks involved or not to farm.
> 
> That's why we should thank the farmer.



No one is guaranteed an income, all are subject to market forces.

Most will hang on to the corn until they get the price they need, I sure do haul enough of the bin components anyway.


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## Tarheel (Jan 24, 2010)

joseph97297 said:


> What I ate yesterday...yes, I did.
> 
> But for the asparagus I am going to eat today? No, so according to that logic, I need to thank the farmer for growing it, the guy who picks it, the person who shipped it, the grocer who stocks it, the guy who checks me out, then I need to thank the gas company who provides the gas for me to drive my truck (oh, thanks by the way to Dodge for making my truck), the city worker who paved the road, the electric company for providing the electricity to light the store and run the register, the county worker who scraped my county road for snow so I could get out....not to mention the American government who subsidizes farming so that 'farmers' can survive.
> .


Nope all I'm saying is that "some" farmers don't use all the people that you have implied. It don't take all these folks when you run a smaller farm, but we can still make a difference. Sure I buy or barter for things that I cannot produce or make my self. I don't drive a new farm truck.......could I ? sure but why ? my old truck does what I need it to do.

Do I have crop insurance ? nope, I just put my trust somewhere else. No american subsidies......no nothing. I do it because I enjoy growing good food for my family and friends.

Someone said (not you) that how much down time a farmer has in the off season. Well there's never an off season for a row crop farmer. There's always tractors that need servicing, compost piles to turn, cover crops to plant, high tunnels to build and it goes on and on.

Do I and others have to do it ? I don't.... but we better hope and pray that they don't all quite growing. Will just agree to disagree with our feelings about a farmer. I'm glad to have had the privilege to grow just a small portion of food on this century farm like my folks did. I've been blessed.


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## bowdonkey (Oct 6, 2007)

coolrunnin said:


> No one is guaranteed an income, all are subject to market forces.
> 
> Most will hang on to the corn until they get the price they need, I sure do haul enough of the bin components anyway.


Ya can't hold onto it forever.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

bowdonkey said:


> Ya can't hold onto it forever.


Interest, storage even if it's in your own bin you have costs such as insecticide, electricity, shrinkage, and others.


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

One of the problems is that farmers don't provide anything bu the base commodities. [grain, soy, etc.]

The money is made in the value added processes, turning it into bread, pastry, cornmeal, etc.

If farmers/ranchers could develop some value added precessing of their products, they would gain more income. Obviously much easier talked about by me than accomplished.

If I farmed [I don't], I would pack up some of my grain and sell it online via Amazon, ebay, etsy Craigslist, Ecrater. There are folks who want raw grains, and will pay a premium for it to be delivered to their home.

Hard for a single farmer to do, but a great idea for a Coop to get going. Set up a commercial kitchen and produce your own retail products.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Maybe someone is feeling personally under appreciated. I don't remember seeing someone go off on an occupation over a radio commercial before.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Read the story of Braums.


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

GoldenCityMuse said:


> One of the problems is that farmers don't provide anything bu the base commodities. [grain, soy, etc.]
> 
> The money is made in the value added processes, turning it into bread, pastry, cornmeal, etc.
> 
> ...


How long will it take you to pack 100,000 bushels and mail them out? I used to farm and I produced at least that amount. Even the pecans we had to sell at wholesale every year to find the right buyers. I produced at least 2 tractor trailer (30 foot) loads each year. I guess if a person had only 5 acres he might do that but any more than that he would be wasting time and money.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

It seems like if some one just wanted to feed their family or make money there is easier ways to do it.
the current weather situation is one of many examples to show that farming is a job of choice not just for profit.


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## milkman (Feb 3, 2007)

I see farmers here getting big government payments, crop insurance that the tax payers pay 70 percent of, prices supported by government "" tax payers" again. Farmers are big business today. They complain about the government,food stamps and welfare! Hell if you get money off tax payers it welfare, food stamps, price supports, crop insurance! I say farm on your own, can't make it get out of the business! That's what everyone has to do! Crop insurance is welfare. I know lots of farmer who live off welfare, they are not farming for us, they are making money, off you and me!


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

milkman said:


> I see farmers here getting big government payments, crop insurance that the tax payers pay 70 percent of, prices supported by government "" tax payers" again. Farmers are big business today. They complain about the government,food stamps and welfare! Hell if you get money off tax payers it welfare, food stamps, price supports, crop insurance! I say farm on your own, can't make it get out of the business! That's what everyone has to do! Crop insurance is welfare. I know lots of farmer who live off welfare, they are not farming for us, they are making money, off you and me!


Crop insurance is something that the farmers pay for It is not free or it used to be so. I had crop insurance when I farmed but never used it. I guess that you could say the same thing for heath insurance.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

milkman said:


> I see farmers here getting big government payments, crop insurance that the tax payers pay 70 percent of, prices supported by government "" tax payers" again. Farmers are big business today. They complain about the government,food stamps and welfare! Hell if you get money off tax payers it welfare, food stamps, price supports, crop insurance! I say farm on your own, can't make it get out of the business! That's what everyone has to do! Crop insurance is welfare. I know lots of farmer who live off welfare, they are not farming for us, they are making money, off you and me!


I agree with you a million times. Up here in Canada, our "subsidization" of agriculture is tiny compared to Europe or the US. And we suffer because of other nations false markets, false realities, and huge tax dollars thrown at Agriculture. 

We Canadians have been hammered endlessly by foreign national policy which distorts markets.

On several other farming chatrooms, I see so many payments American guys talk about getting, and it makes me sick. Many of them claim to want government to get lost. 

Government intervention is wicked down there. And I thought we were the socialists? lol!


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

In this area the smaller farmers are the ones more likely to produce people food. The larger farms are producing corn for ethanol and soy beans for biodiesel. Every time a smaller farm fails the land is gobbled up by the corn/soy producers. Less producers means higher prices for consumers. 

The middle or end of the food chain is where money is made. Many years ago a loaf of bread was 20Â¢. Then there was a wheat shortage and prices for bread went way up. When the wheat shortage was over bread prices did not go down. Wheat farmers were likely getting the same price all along. 

I've certainly noticed the price of meat going out of sight the last two years due to a combination of drought and cost of feed grains skyrocketing due to ethanol. Does anyone believe the price of meat will drop much when the "crisis" is over? 

I have to agree with farmerDale that we are drastically over regulated in the USA. In all areas not just farming. In a large part the over regulation is why manufacturers have abandoned the USA. Many smaller business fail due to government regulations that they cannot afford to comply with. The add in waste in government which is sickening. It begins with too many people employed by the government and trickles down to everyone having their hands out for various give aways. Congress has voted themselves benefits that they should not have EVER. The President is using executive orders to bypass his Constitutional authority. Its all a huge dirty mess.


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## snowcap (Jul 1, 2011)

i thought crop insurance was like flood insurance. Bought through the goverment, but not free.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> In this area the smaller farmers are the ones more likely to produce people food. The larger farms are producing corn for ethanol and soy beans for biodiesel. Every time a smaller farm fails the land is gobbled up by the corn/soy producers. Less producers means higher prices for consumers.
> 
> The middle or end of the food chain is where money is made. Many years ago a loaf of bread was 20Â¢. Then there was a wheat shortage and prices for bread went way up. When the wheat shortage was over bread prices did not go down. Wheat farmers were likely getting the same price all along.
> 
> ...



I think you are well aware that corn and beans have more than 1 use. The grain prices are driven by GLOBAL supply and demand. If the people of China all want one more chicken per year that would cause a large spike in grain prices. The days of local markets for corn and other grains are history.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

farmerDale said:


> I agree with you a million times. Up here in Canada, our "subsidization" of agriculture is tiny compared to Europe or the US. And we suffer because of other nations false markets, false realities, and huge tax dollars thrown at Agriculture.
> 
> We Canadians have been hammered endlessly by foreign national policy which distorts markets.
> 
> ...


 
A little independence and look at you Canadian farmers go, what was it 2 years ago they let you sell your wheat on your own with out the Canadian wheat board doing it for you. :stirpot:


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Yeah, I know global. That's why all the barges are going down the Mississippi River. That's why what happens in South America affects our farmers. That's why when China cancels soy bean contracts prices fall.


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## sand flea (Sep 1, 2013)

re: People Food vs food > fuels...

People food has become big business, in that NAFTA allowed growers in other parts of the world to supply competitively priced out of season produce to markets that came to expect avocados, bananas and oranges all year long. That created demand along with eating habits that are looking for more and more novel ethnic cuisines... that isn't sustainable, with huge overhead investments in fuel and transportation. As was pointed out: weather conditions around the world can affect the availability - and therefore the price - of certain foods that aren't locally produced and are "out of season". Some things just won't store well - or require energy to dehydrate them or freeze or can them.

Then, there are all the "processed foods" - the instant meals, meals in a box, etc. The "good stuff" in food is being spread very thin and the real nutritional value has to be added back in, artificially, to keep it from being simply starchy calories. This stuff is monumentally bad for humans - as well as more expensive due to the added cost of labor and fancy "processing" technology.

When I was raising & preserving almost everything we ate (meat, cheese & grains were the exception) and actually cooking - we were healthier and overall had a higher "well being". I got away from that for awhile - and have suffered the consequences. One of them being extra weight that's taking it's toll on joints and even my emotional contentment.

I'm gradually working my way back into "simple, fresh food" cooking and it's definitely a big difference. Next up is the third, "from scratch" garden... and before anyone goes there, and panics...

more people raising their own food won't put the small produce farmers out of business. For the most part, we don't have enough space to raise the quantities we need of some things; some plants simply won't do well for some people. We will still rely on the farmer's markets and produce farmers and local livestock suppliers.
------------------------

Using the food supply for fuel was the most idiotic idea I ever heard money was being poured into. Turns out, too - it's just AWFUL for engines. So stop it, already.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

If you think fuel from grain just started a couple of years ago you are being mislead. Price is what determines use of the grain when it is grown. We all tend to do what keeps us afloat and the same goes with farmers. World demand sets the price for what we buy and sell and to think otherwise is just fooling yourself.


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## Ozarks Tom (May 27, 2011)

Wanda said:


> If you think fuel from grain just started a couple of years ago you are being mislead. Price is what determines use of the grain when it is grown. We all tend to do what keeps us afloat and the same goes with farmers. *World demand* sets the price for what we buy and sell and to think otherwise is just fooling yourself.


Um, aren't you leaving out the other side of the equation? Supply plays just as large a part in pricing, and supply is heavily affected by artificial market supports. When the government subsidizes, and then mandates, burning food world prices necessarily rise.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Um, aren't you leaving out the other side of the equation? Supply plays just as large a part in pricing, and supply is heavily affected by artificial market supports. When the government subsidizes, and then mandates, burning food world prices necessarily rise.




If there is no demand for a product you can do whatever you want with supply and you will not change the price. As a general rule when supply tightens prices will climb. People will quit buying and the demand falls when that happens you will have a large supply of unsold goods. Falling prices will increase the demand. Food for fuel sets a demand up to a certain price point then there is no more demand. We can import ethanol from other countries so it does not have to be made here. Fuel and food are global commodities that are priced on a world stage. Just look what happened when we went to ''drill baby drill'', our oil production has skyrocketed,can you tell the difference in price at the gas pump? That gas that every one thought would be cheaper is now going to Europe.


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## plowhand (Aug 14, 2005)

snowcap said:


> i thought crop insurance was like flood insurance. Bought through the goverment, but not free.


Crop isurance, is purchased through mostly local or national insurance companies. The amount you are able to draw depends on your claims, verses your/local yields. If you don't claim for 6 years ect......have very high yields......then you have a crop failure....you will have a higher insurance payout than you would if your crop was below average and you claim every other year.
Also you need to realize that there is a large "subsidy" that pays a good deal of the insurance premium...I believe it is 63% in the new farm bill, or may be the farmers part.....
You should also know that the insurance companies pay so much.....then Uncle Sam antes up the rest.
You should also know that there are shady adjustments.....grain tickets are sometimes claimed on one farm....as to leave another farm showing a loss so insurance payments can be collected
Sometimes crops are not fertilized, wrong chemical sprayed so the crop fails...crops are not gathered fast enough..in the case of tobacco/vegetable that are insurable like peanut, sweet potatos
One section of the county I live in has, well there are areas sweet potatos can't be insured in.....even though it's jam up sweet potato land, and some still plant and harvest sweet potatos....just can't insure them...guess why


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Draw a line, pick a side and attack.

Repeat.


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## farmerDale (Jan 8, 2011)

Allen W said:


> A little independence and look at you Canadian farmers go, what was it 2 years ago they let you sell your wheat on your own with out the Canadian wheat board doing it for you. :stirpot:


I waited my whole career to have marketing freedom, tell me about it!!!


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## Lazydaisy67 (Jan 28, 2008)

I think around here we have some farmers sweating bullets. They may have talked themselves into believing that $7 a bushel corn was the "new norm" and bought land at $12,000 an acre. Now corn is at, what, $4.50 a bushel and they are in a pickle. The 'old timers' knew better, but their kids and grandkids didn't want to listen to them.


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## Wanda (Dec 19, 2002)

Lazydaisy67 said:


> I think around here we have some farmers sweating bullets. They may have talked themselves into believing that $7 a bushel corn was the "new norm" and bought land at $12,000 an acre. Now corn is at, what, $4.50 a bushel and they are in a pickle. The 'old timers' knew better, but their kids and grandkids didn't want to listen to them.




They did not buy that ground just because grain prices were high. They have made some profit for a few years and need to invest some money. With interest in the area of 1% where would you put the money. In my area it is those ''old timers'' that are buying the ground. Its a little tough going to the bank to borrow close to a $1,000,000 without a pretty good plan to pay it back!:shrug:


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## bigjon (Oct 2, 2013)

here in c.n.y. farm land is 2500 an acre.and yes theres 3 BIG farms buying all they can.i won't sell my 30acres of heaven(i'm a small veg farm squash-all kinds-cukes-2 varieties,tomatos,garlic,watermelons and punkins for the grandkids.no corn or soybeans in sight.use no weedkillers!plant under plastic mulch.yes I make a NICE profit and feed my family.all my equipment is old and used just like ME.buisness?yes.hobby?well I like to EAT.still working 52hrs a week in a steel forging shop-big or small farm?we're always on the short end/crisis?can't see it -the hole i'm in is too deep!well I got seed and fertilizer to order-lets go farm=so the citiots can eat.....


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## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Ozarks Tom said:


> Um, aren't you leaving out the other side of the equation? Supply plays just as large a part in pricing, and supply is heavily affected by artificial market supports. When the government subsidizes, and then mandates, burning food world prices necessarily rise.


When you tink about it the Food Stamps or SNAP is a good idea even with the increases. After all that is over half of the agriculture bill close to 70%.


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## Andy Nonymous (Aug 20, 2005)

I found the cartoon mentioned earlier. Interestingly, the clipping also notes a potential currency problem... Perhaps more evidence that even 76 years later, the same forces are at work.










I have more to reply, but a shortage of spare time.


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## sand flea (Sep 1, 2013)

What's the date on that clipping, Andy? It looks like 1905... but I'm not able to enlarge it without blurring it. (right now)


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## Mike in Ohio (Oct 29, 2002)

If farmland prices drop enough in our area (Central East Ohio) I'd likely be a buyer. The only problem is they aren't likely to. Utica shale is driving prices in our area. Land without mineral rights is currently running about $3,500 an acre. Water rights are becoming an issue as well. We've looked at adding some acreage but won't unless the particular deal makes sense to us.

Mike


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