# Free Seeds Are Back!



## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Third year in a row of giving everyone a chance to get some seeds at the lowest possible price, FREE, and then laugh at the different methods used to kill the seedlings!

This year's Jung's trial vegetable is an old "heirloom", Little Gem Cos Lettuce. Those who've grown it before know that it's a nice little Romaine lettuce just the right size for a nice salad. About 300 seeds per packet so you'll be able to find every possible way of failing!

The trial flower is the dwarf French marigold Tiger Eyes. I've never grown that one but there's about 25 seeds per packet of those no-brainers.

But that's not all. For all of those who did their best to NOT bring a beet to the table, you'll have a second chance as I've obtained more of the Red Cloud beets and tripled the amount in each packet. Now you'll have to look for three times the excuses for failure!

Also still have ample packets of Convolvulus, also known as Bush Morning Glory. No, I will not keep repeating that it does NOT climb and is named for the flower's appearance and is not even related to a morning glory.

Need something more to play with? How about tomatoes? The greatest field tomato ever developed was on the edge of vanishing. Not offered commercially anywhere in 2003. A one-man campaign now has seeds in the hands of gardeners in almost all 50 states, most of the provinces, as well as Australia and New Zealand. That's the Wisconsin 55 tomato. About 25 seeds per packet, organic grown for the purists. Developed 60 years ago as an all-purpose field tomato and never matched.

Finally, need a good determinate bush Roma? Paquebot Roma also being given a nationwide release this year. Trialed by some other HT members this past season and will be repeated this year. But it's a tomato plant with a bit of a twist. 2002 seed produced close to 15% tricotyledons instead of the normal dicotyledon. If anyone wants to play with them and have use for a lot of paste tomatoes, ask for them also. But watch for a tri-cot and save seeds from them to keep the project going.

So, six different free offers. Let me know what all you want. For certain, you'll get the Little Gem and the marigold regardless. You'll need to request any or all of the others when you send me a mailing address. 

Oh yes, please use the e-mail feature. This has to be the slowest forum on the Internet and I can brew a pot of coffee in the time it takes to access a PM!

Happy Gardening!

Martin


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## Nancy in Maine (Jun 24, 2002)

Martin--can't send you an email. Got this message: 

"Sorry! That user has specified that they do not wish to receive emails through this board. If you still wish to send an email to this user, please contact the administrator and they may be able to help."


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## Katherine in KY (May 11, 2002)

Martin, please check your pm--sorry, but the e-mail feature doesn't work.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Kathy & Nancy,

Thanks for advising that something is screwed up, as usual! The more things change, the more they remain the same. Took 2 days for me just to access HT! First thing I did before posting last night was to check to make certain that everything was OK in the profile. It was, and still is! I'll just have to keep deleting the earliest responses to prevent any requests being bounced back because the mailbox is full. 

Responses are going well. To those who have come back for the second and third time, at least a friendly Hi! in case I don't reply. For those new ones who forget to include a mailing address, I've tried to send seeds through the Internet but they keep jamming up in the modem! Ain't gardening fun?

Martin


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## marisal (Jun 3, 2003)

You should have mail...I used the email link. I hoped it worked!! 

~Marisa


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

E-mail feature working just as it was supposed to. Last Sunday, all dressed up and no place to go! Ready to fill orders and site goes down. Why does that always happen only when I get involved in some project? I was happy to see that my e-mail inbox was loaded with seed requests this morning as I knew that things were working right again.

So, don't be bashful about requesting something free and with no strings attached. Such a thing is rare these days. The supply of lettuce and flower packets is unlimited. GW members know that the remaining Wisconsin 55 tomato seeds are reserved for my "home" forum so orders from those members have ceased. When those seeds are gone, late requests may end with a prolific canner such as Moneymaker. Based on last year's number of seed requests, I should be OK. We'll see how it goes. 

Think spring! -6 right now.

Martin


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## sweetbabyjane (Oct 21, 2002)

Hi Paquebot,
Just sent you an e-mail. Sounds too good to pass up. 

Have a great day,
SBJ


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

Sent you an E Mail !! Thank you so much !!! I really appreciate your kindness !


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## Earthbound (Feb 3, 2003)

Just sent you an e-mail, cant wait to start growing!!!! Thank you sooo much for the generous offer.
corry


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## thefarm (May 11, 2002)

I just sent you a PM.. Thanks so much.. Happy Planting... Brenda :dance:


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## thefarm (May 11, 2002)

Just wanted to let you know that I replied to your email.. But I didn't see where it went ??? Brenda


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

I have a feeling that the forum is wounded but still trying to fly with one wing. One PM to start the day and nothing but e-mails since. No PMs in regards to this seed offer. If anyone PMed their address to me today, I didn't get it! If you e-mailed and saw that it went nowhere, that's where it went, nowhere. One member tried several times before it got through. Again, all OK on this end. Maddening!

Martin


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## Earthbound (Feb 3, 2003)

I e-mailed you again!
Corry


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Martin, I emailed you and PM-ed you both. Can you tell I am a bit excited about the seeds??? Thank you so very much for your generous offer!!!
God Bless you and yours
Debbie


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

It appears that everything is working OK again. If you requested seeds today and don't have them by Wednesday, 4 Feb, at the latest, contact me again. I'm only keeping a paper record under your forum names. Those who know that seeds are coming now can begin finding new ways to ways to kill the plants. I think that we heard every possible excuse last year with the beets! Bigger selection this year so you'll really have to work hard to kill all of my "children"! But if anyone can find a new way, you guys will do it!!

Anything after this post will not go out until Monday. I ran out of Tiger Eyes marigold seed packets.

Martin


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## doodles (Sep 27, 2002)

Thanks so much for the seeds.I wsill do my best not to kill them. I'll report back in the spring


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## Animal (Nov 20, 2003)

Martin,
Just sent you an e-mail. Thank you so much for this offer. Our children want to garden this year so they get their own raised bed. I'm starting to think that the plants will do better than I will.

Thanks again.

Animal


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## onthehill10 (Jan 9, 2004)

:dance: Sent you E-mail. Thank You!


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## onthehill10 (Jan 9, 2004)

Sent you a PM E-mail would not work. Thank You! Mike


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## thefarm (May 11, 2002)

:dance: Thanks so much for your sharing.. Looking forward to getting them and I will be starting them inside then transplant outside. I will keep you posted on how they are doing. Thanks again.. :dance:


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Hello Martin,

Please add me to your list again this year!! 

Think we have the Rabbit population down this year. 

Last years Tomatoes were great!! The two carrots I managed to steal from the Rabbits were wonderful. 
Shared the beet seeds with a like minded friend.

All in All, this is a wonderful thing you do Martin !!

Thank you.


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## Linda Camello (May 7, 2003)

I sent you an email with my address...I hope you got it ok. I'm so anxious to plant....plant....plant!!!! Thank you so much!!!!


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## Nan (May 13, 2002)

I would like to be added to your list too! Thanks! Loved those beets from last year!!! This is really nice Mr. P!! God Bless! Nan


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## Fla Gal (Jul 14, 2003)

Hi Martin,

I emailed you. Thanks so much. I'm hoping I'm not going to be killing any of them. :no:


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Finally think that everyone is accounted for so far. If anyone was missed, blame the forum!

For those getting the tomato seeds, don't take them lightly just because they are free. A lot of work and headaches went into making them available. It's also hoped that some of you will save seeds from them to keep them going, especially if they do well for you. For some fun reading, check out the mountain that I had to climb in Garden Web when a simple free offer went ballistic! "One man with courage is a majority." 

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/exch090156456690.html?43 

Martin


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## thefarm (May 11, 2002)

Went to the web site and did some reading.. allot of nice things were said.. I'm also from Maine so I hope everything will grow well for me... Thanks. Brenda :dance:


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## marisal (Jun 3, 2003)

I am definetly saving my seeds this year. My husband keeps hounding me every year because I keep talking about bigger and bigger gardens, and he talks about cost. So I told him if I grow varieties that I can save the seeds from, That would lower the cost to next to nothing. He liked that. I am starting to grow a wide variety of tomatoes, to see what kind I like. I haven't any early varieties yet though...I also like the odd ones....sorry for the rambling! 

~Marisa


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## kitty32_z8 (Jun 17, 2003)

Martin,
I received my seeds today. THANK YOU! :dance: 
Can you refer me to information on the identification of the tricotyledons( I dont even know what that means  ) in the Romas? I am not educated in this stuff. This year will be my first year trying to save seeds for next year. So as you can tell I have lots to learn yet, but willing to learn!

Kathy


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

OK, it's time that you all got an education on that subject. There are two kinds of seedlings. One is monocotyledon and the other is dicotyledon. Both words will be found in your standard dictionary. Cotyledons are the first leaves to emerge from the seed. Usually, they are very much unlike the second set of leaves which are called true leaves. Deviation from the normal is not common and in many cases is fatal. For example, a 3-lobed walnut or hickory nut is not uncommon but those seeds can never grow. It's Nature's way of not allowing her mistakes to continue.

Now we come to the tomatoes. With normal indeterminate varieties, perhaps there will be a tricotyledon at the rate of 1 in 4,000. Or you may grow thousands of seedlings per year and never see one in your lifetime. However, determinate varieties, such as most of the paste types, have different genes. One, although not named, is an acceleration gene which causes the plant to grow rapidly and produce a large number of fruit at one time. I have proven that it can be manifested right from the start with the seed producing 50% more growth immediately by producing an extra cotyledon. Being true cotyledons rather than two normal and one double, from a twin embryo, the tricotyledons also then produce three true leaves instead of the normal two. Throughout the growing period, growth will continue to be 50% more than normal.

We've already established that it is a fixed recessive gene in my variety. With time, I am certain that it would become a dominant gene and to the point where a normal dicotyledon seeding would be culled as being inferior. There has been only one tricotyledon study made and that was 80 years ago and with an indeterminate variety. It's never been researched with a determinate type until now. Four generations of mine has produced tricotyledons. Seed only saved from those plants. I fully expect 1 in 12 seeds to produce a seedling with an extra cotyledon. However, all of the seed that has been sent out this year is unproven as to the percentage of tricotyledons. It would disappoint me if everyone didn't end up with at least one or two per packet.

Accelerated growth? One test plant went into the garden on 3 June with just the three tiny cotyledons showing. 14 weeks later, the plant was worn out and dead after having produced 142 fruit. That is what is possible with the Paquebot Roma if given decent growing conditions.

Then, just when I have my hands full with the Paquebot Romas, there was a tricotyledon Riesentraube cherry tomato which showed up last year and gives me one more to play with!

Oh yes, you will not find tricotyledon in the dictionary. Not yet!

Martin


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## ponyexpress (Feb 15, 2003)

Thank you so much, Martin!
I'm hoping I will have LOTS of tomatoes! If not, I'm sure I'll amuse everybody telling how I managed to kill them!
Thanks again!

Anne


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## Trisha A (Apr 27, 2003)

Thank You !!
I received my seeds today, that I had no idea where coming!! I was very surprised, since we had not been able to access the site, I didn't even think you had gotten my PM. Thank you again, I will be planting some next good planting day in a bed I just cleared out. I will let you know how they do here in SW Florida.

Trisha A


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## kitty32_z8 (Jun 17, 2003)

WOW! Thanks for taking the time to explain!
I will try to keep track of what I have in my seeds and if I wind up with any tri's I will save seeds. Oh will I bee canning tomatoes this year :dance: . I dont need a tri cherry tomato! I use the sweet 100 and 1000's and have numerous tomatoes.
So do you need the information on the ones I dont kill that are tri's? Do you need number of fruit or the pounds of fruit info.? Tell me what info. and I will try to track it.

Kathy


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Hello Martin, and thanks for making your offer of seeds again this year! I emailed but didn't get a confirmation that it was sent, so I hope you got it! If not, let me know, and I'll try again! I'd like to try the tomatoes...any or all of them, especially the Romas. I have just a few of the yellow carrot seeds left from last year, so they're going in as soon as the ground is ready, and I'll let you know if I manage to grow them this year! Thanks for your generosity! Be sure everyone, to report back to him on how the seeds do in your area! 

Jan in CO


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Thanks for the offer! I sent an email last night hope you got it!


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## mowarren (Mar 2, 2003)

sent you an email. great explanation on cotyledon's, would you post best way to save seeds on the tomatoes then again maybe that should be a new thread.


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## Animal (Nov 20, 2003)

Seeds arrived today. Thanks. Can't wait to start planting.
Animal


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## CountryBumpkinLisa (Dec 31, 2002)

Thank You so much for the seeds. They arrived today! Come on spring! Can't wait for more beets!
Thank You again :worship:


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## marisal (Jun 3, 2003)

Yea!

I got mine yesterday. Thank you for them all!! Is there any information I should record that you would like? I will be starting my tomato seeds around the middle of March.

Let me know, and I'll keep track of everything for you.

~Marisa


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2004)

The requests are exceeding expectations. Based on the two previous years, I figured that HT would result in 50 requests maximum. We're well over that already and half of the regular garden killers haven't asked yet! I had reserved about 1,000 Wisconsin 55 seeds for HT but if you read the GW thread, you will see my claim that I will NOT run out of seed. Thus I am arranging for more seed to be sent down from Randolph, Jung's headquarters, so that everyone will have a chance to grow it. Supposedly quaranteed pure and came from the same original source as mine. 

This summer, we'll have a thread on saving seeds to keep the tomato varieties going. It's not complicated rocket science. Old farmers did it for many years and still do. There's no excuse to ever buy an OP tomato variety more than once in a lifetime.

Happy gardening! 

Martin


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

My seeds arrived yesterday------Thank you!


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## CMATE (Jan 29, 2004)

:dance: :dance: :dance: 
just sent you an 'pm'/email too, that is very generous & Thanks again.


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## CMATE (Jan 29, 2004)

Unregistered said:


> The requests are exceeding expectations. Based on the two previous years, I figured that HT would result in 50 requests maximum. We're well over that already and half of the regular garden killers haven't asked yet! I had reserved about 1,000 Wisconsin 55 seeds for HT but if you read the GW thread, you will see my claim that I will NOT run out of seed. Thus I am arranging for more seed to be sent down from Randolph, Jung's headquarters, so that everyone will have a chance to grow it. Supposedly quaranteed pure and came from the same original source as mine.
> 
> This summer, we'll have a thread on saving seeds to keep the tomato varieties going. It's not complicated rocket science. Old farmers did it for many years and still do. There's no excuse to ever buy an OP tomato variety more than once in a lifetime.
> 
> ...


  That is a great idea, I just recently joined SSE & am studying up on this subject as we speak!


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

Got me seeds yesterday !!!!! Thank you Seed Man !!!


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## Jay1 (May 30, 2002)

Received my seeds yesterday. Thank you!


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## Ed in S. AL (Jun 5, 2002)

Got my seeds today. Thank you so much!


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

Seeds arrived today Martin. Thank you !!! :worship: 

My DH built me a nice cold frame, with a wire bottom, yesterday. So should not have as many Bunny problems.
The seeds shall grow and not get eaten, by anything other than Humans. :haha:


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## revontulet (Jan 31, 2004)

Martin, I got the seeds today- Thank you!
It will be awhile befor I can plant them up in Northern Minnesota.
This will be my first garden so pray for your "children"


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## Fla Gal (Jul 14, 2003)

Got my seeds today! Square foot container gardening with rabbit poo or tea is what I'll be doing. The soil will cost a bit but I believe will be worth it.

Thanks so much for the seeds. I'm really looking forward to growing and harvesting them and saving seed.


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## gccrook (Nov 21, 2003)

Received my seeds yesterday. Thanks so much. I look forward to great tomatoes if I can keep from killing or maiming them.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Seeds arrived today. Thankyou!! :worship: 
The wife looked at me opening the envelope yesterday and asked what I got. When I told her seeds, she just looked at me & rolled her eyes.  She doesn't seem to understand that each year your garden MUST get a little bigger than the previous year!! :no: 

Come on Spring!!


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## Hears The Water (Aug 2, 2002)

Martin, thank you so much for the wonderful seeds. I feel so very priveliged (sp?) to get them. I knew exactaly whent he packet came in the mail because my 13yo dd Devon came running up the driveway!!! Thanks again!!!

Now, if you are not totaly exhausted from having to explain stuff to those of us who are just starting out in gardening, let me re-write how I understand this whole "tri's" thing. I need to do this so I can be sure that I understood your explanation. What you are suggesting to us is to watch for the first set of true leaves and on the plants that have three instead of the standard two, we should plant those and then later on save seeds from them. Correct? This is so cool. I think I will turn this into a homeschool lesson for my kids! It is only just to bad that the homeschool science fair is in March, otherwise my budding gardener (pardon the pun) could use this whole thing for an awesome project. Hmmmm, maybee for next year!!! Thanks again so very much not just for the seeds, but for my renued enthuseasim (sp?) for gardening!!
God Bless you and yours
Debbie


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## momma (Dec 5, 2002)

Thank you so much! Your generosity is overwhelming. I was so excited to get my seeds today that I made my husband sit still while I read the descriptions on the packages and did a happy dance between each description!


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## onthehill10 (Jan 9, 2004)

Got my seeds today! Thank You Very Much! They are going in the seed growing box tomrrow. :dance:


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2004)

My seeds have arrived.Thank you thank you. I have only had 2 below zero days so far but some little critter says we are to have 6 more weeks of Winter. I guess here in the mountains of Montana that means green house gardening because I don't think that I can wait that long.I will share with some friends down in the valley just to see how the altitude affects the tomatoes.
Thanks again,
Qwerty


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## sweetbabyjane (Oct 21, 2002)

Thank you Martin!
Got your seeds yesterday and it made my evening! There is something magical about seeds, they contain the secret of life. Just holding those packets fires up your dreams and imagination. They are already grown and producing in my head! 

Told my dad and he's as excited as I am.  Gonna share them with him, he's the one I inherited my love of gardening from. 

Thanks so much for sharing!
SBJ


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## thefarm (May 11, 2002)

:dance: Thank you Martin got seeds today.. What nice stamps and a post mark on it. Ray collects stamps and post marks he will be very happy when he gets home to see that.. And I'm very happy to recieve the seeds and so many.. thanks.. Very cold here but will start in my greenhouse I hope in two weeks if all goes well.. thanks for sharing and taking the time and effort and money to send... Thanks.. Brenda :dance: :dance:


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

Ours arrived today, too. And THANKS, Martin! I'll get the tomato seeds all started under the grow lights right away. Looking forward to seed saving this summer, too! Thanks again for being so generous! Jan in CO


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Brenda, it's quite certain that you've never seen a postmark like that. Your Ray may have heard of them but possibly never seen one. It is my own private postmark! It's showing a bit of wear but has been in continuous use since 1986. It's been a standing joke in this city that there are two post offices and two postmasters. But it is correct as my desk is a indeed a private PO. This past Monday morning, I was using a Groundhog Day cancel at the PO but not on any seed requests as it would not have given a very clear impression. You see, I postmark the stamps BEFORE the envelopes are stuffed so that they are still flat. Yes, I am a different old bird, aren't I? :haha: 

(Editing some hours later after struggling to connect with this part time forum.)  

I see that Janice wanted to be the first killer. Unless you are in Florida, Gulf Coast, or Southern California, don't even think of starting those tomato seeds yet. Maximum 6 weeks before last frost date for the WI55s and one month for the Paquebot Romas. Start them any earlier and their accelerated growth patterns will simply kill them, for lack of sufficient light, or they'll try to grow long and spindly. WI55 is a semi-determinate, Paquebot Roma is a determinate. You can not bury a long stem of either and expect it to grow new roots. That is reserved for the sprawling indeterminates. Ideally, both should be planted in the garden when they have perhaps no more than 4 true leaves and only about 3" tall. You all got that now? 

Martin


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## healing herbals (May 20, 2003)

I received my seeds, thank you so much


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Pam, I guess that it's OK to hijack my own thread and change the subject! Do you have anything in your bag of cures for bronchial pneumonia? My son's a nurse and he says that is what I've been fighting for two weeks. As long as the body is strong enough to keep coughing up those golf balls, I'll survive. At only 65, I do have very high hopes of seeing 66 and a lot more but the past few weeks have had me with some doubts! Tired of supporting the drug stores and buying cures that don't work.  

Martin


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## hercsmama (Jan 15, 2004)

Martin, so sorry you aren't feeling well!
Just wanted to let you know that I got my seeds yesterday and will be starting them probably next week! Thank you so much! Hope you feel better soon!


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## thefarm (May 11, 2002)

Martin guess we are showing some age also because Ray used to do his own stamping also he belongs to the PMCC Club do you? He used to be a big stamp and postmark collector until I came into his life and then he has gotten out of it some... He would think nothing of spending $100.00 a month on new stamps and then never use them... Brenda


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## healing herbals (May 20, 2003)

Martin,
I am so sorry to hear you are sick. Actually, I do have a herbal remedy I designed this year, that has been great for kicking the flu in the butt. I am finishing up a new batch this afternoon. I will be glad to overnight it to you tomorrow. In the meantime, Up the Vit C preferably in herbal or liquid form (elderberry tea is both vit c and anti flu). Lots of liquids, water and organic juices preferred, to clean your Whole system. And try this, Take 1 onion and 1 garlic clove. leave the onion in fairly large pieces, but mince the garlic and be sure to scrape all the goodies off the cutting board. Saute them together in 1/4 cup shortening (not oil) even pure lard will work, then before it cools, cover your chest with it and wrap yourself in a large beach towel or sheet. And sleep that way over night, or for as long as you can stand it. Also eat garlic & onion rich soup. (If you don't like pure onion soup, make a potato soup, without much milk).
Lay off the milk products, because they cause more mucous. If you need caffeine, after your first cup of coffee (or 2) a day, drink green tea.
I will also send you a bag of my detox salts. Epsom, sea salt and ginger, in a tub of hot water, and it opens your pores and lets you sweat, which is GOOD.
Anyway, some suggestions. I will email this private, too, so you get it and I will have all the directions wrote down with your bottle of herbal remedy I send you
All the best
Pam


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## MaryJane (Jun 3, 2002)

Martin,
My seeds arrived -- thanks sooooo much! I do have a question...my seeds were put in the rural route box Sat afternoon but hubby didn't check the mail until Sunday morning. It got down to 15 degrees that night.  Are the seeds going to be OK? I have my fingers crossed!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Cold ain't going to hurt those seeds. If it did, there would not be a million tomato volunteers each year in my garden. And, I would not have planted a lot of tomato seeds in the cold frame on Thanksgiving Day. In fact, I've given up trying to start Kellogg's Breakfast inside since it is such a wimpy and sickly thing as a seedling. Those seeds have been outside all winter and only endured -12 so far. They'll come up twice as tough as any pampered inside seedlings. Heatherington Pink may also be an outside candidate as those seedlings also were difficult to get to any size. Both are great large tomato varieties but a bugger to get started. The cold start actually is better for them.

Still have plenty of seed packets left. About 35-40 of the Wisconsin 55 tomatoes and the beets but unlimited for all others. 

For those of you who have sent money, you didn't have to do that. :no: Social Security Administration already sends me more than I can spend each month! For those who've sent seeds, when can I also expect the ground to grow them in?  

Martin


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## fellini123 (Feb 2, 2003)

Whooo Hooo I'm so excited I got my seeds today!! Now to figure out how it kill them!!! I think I am going to start the tomato seeds next week as we are leaving town for about a week.
I've got a place all set up to kill the beets in, and hubby was excited about the thought of getting fresh beets!! I didnt have the heart to tell him!! LOL
Thanks so much.
Alice in Virginia


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## Elffriend (Mar 2, 2003)

My seeds arrived today. Thank you, thank you!


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## mamajohnson (Nov 27, 2002)

Got my seeds yesterday! Yippeee!!! I can almost taste those tomatoes now!!! 
I must go get my hands dirty now!
ahhh inspiration!


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Martin,Doc gave me zithromax is something called a z-pack.You take em for like 7 days and it worked great.By day 2 i was way better,and I was very sick when I started on them.Not a natural cure,but very effective.:worship: 
BooBoo


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## Jaclynne (May 14, 2002)

Thanks Martin, you're a gem!! Got my seeds today, now if I can keep myself from starting them too early. These 50 and 60 degree days make one forget that it drops to 25 and 30 at night. We don't really have any 'winter' weather here in NE Tex until Feb. Thank goodness its a short month!

I hope you are feeling better soon. 

Life is good!!    
Halo


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Thanks for the "Get Well" concerns. Hibernated the past 3 days and played with seeds. Verdict is that you will see me around here for awhile! Finally out today to mail this week's accumulation of mail and pick up more Jung's packets. 

2004 definitely must be the Year of the Garden for HT. 75 requests as of today. Only the next 11 will include the Wisconsin 55 tomato. When they are gone, the second tomato will be strictly a canner type, probably Moneymaker or Alicante.

Martin


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

Thanks! I got the seeds day before yesterday.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

Martin,thank you SO MUCH for the seeds!Its really appreciated!
Carl in Crestline


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## ach (Jan 20, 2003)

Thanks so much for the seeds, Martin! I'm glad you're feeling better.

Anne


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## cwgrl23 (Feb 19, 2004)

I sent an email and pmed you! I can't wait to start playing in the dirt as my husband says.  With 20 inches of snow on the ground and more to come this weekend, I think it will be a while for I get to "play" :waa: We have been in a drought for the last couple of years so I can't complain too much about this much needed moisture.


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## Reauxman (Sep 14, 2002)

I would also like to thank Martin for the seeds. I love growing the mixed salad things, so I was exited to see those, as well as the tomatoes and flowers, and the beets. Have 60$ worth of gurney products, so with all thse seeds, should have a nice garden.
Roo


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## Tom McLaughlin (Nov 16, 2002)

Also want to thank you for the seeds. Sure is nice of ya, Thanks, Tom.


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## elvira (Feb 22, 2004)

Hi Martin,
Just sent you an email. Thanks, Jan
:yeeha:


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

The expected 50 requests is now at only 85! No limit on everything else but only one packet of Wisconsin 55 seeds left. After that one is gone, the canner will be Hellfrucht, a German version of Moneymaker. However, it's strictly an indeterminate climber and needs a tall cage or trellis. Known to climb straight up 7', back down 7', and start back up! But 25# or more may result with decent soil and produce a day less than forever until frost kills it! 

Martin


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## cwgrl23 (Feb 19, 2004)

I got my seeds in the mail today! I am so excited, I can't wait to start planting. Unfortunately I have 2 more months before I can even think about starting my seeds. Until then I will dream of ripe, read tomatoes :haha:


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## BeeFree (Feb 23, 2004)

Martin,

I received the seeds today. Thank you so much. Your kindness is very much appreciated. 

I am looking forward to gardening this year. 

Thanks,
B


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## cc-rider (Jul 29, 2003)

Thanks! I received my seeds this week. I'm so excited! I can't wait to try them all out. Just how soon CAN I start my seeds inside in zone 5??


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## creeklady2000 (Feb 22, 2004)

Paquebot said:


> Finally think that everyone is accounted for so far. If anyone was missed, blame the forum!
> 
> For those getting the tomato seeds, don't take them lightly just because they are free. A lot of work and headaches went into making them available. It's also hoped that some of you will save seeds from them to keep them going, especially if they do well for you. For some fun reading, check out the mountain that I had to climb in Garden Web when a simple free offer went ballistic! "One man with courage is a majority."
> 
> ...


 we got our seeds today thanks so much they will be greatly enjoyed


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Are you all done? If so, it is at exactly 100 requests. That was double what had been expected. It's been fun again, just as in previous years. The offer will continue at least through March. After that, everyone had better be busy planting what they have instead of looking for seeds!  

Martin


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2004)

Martin, I am in SD. How soon should I start the seeds? I just got a new greenhouse for my birthday!  I put it up yesterday!


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## cwgrl23 (Feb 19, 2004)

Martin that above post is me!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Cwgrl, wish I'd have known that. I'd have told your husband to hide those tomato seeds for an Easter present. That would be the time for most tomatoes in our zone. No matter if you got Wisconsin 55 or Hellfrucht, neither should be started before 1 April. For other indeterminate tomatoes, you can start them any time. But remember that you will be constantly potting them up into bigger and bigger pots in order to stay ahead of the root and foliage growth. If you don't, you set out a tall plant with small roots and it takes a month for it to recover and grow new roots. The month's early start is then wasted effort. 

15 April would be best for a determinate such as the Roma. Definitely do not want to set out a tall spindly plant. They need to be small and just forming a root system. If too tall and have a weak root system, you just get a single stalk rather than a bush. 

So, use those dates even with a mini-greenhouse. 1 April for indeterminates and 15 April for determinates.

Martin


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

Good post for "learning me" about when to start my seeds.
Thank you!
But---tell me (again?)
What's the difference between determinate and indeterminate-------and how do I know which is which?


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## Guest (Mar 11, 2004)

Tallpines! What is this? We have a garden forum moderator who does not know what is the difference between a determinate and an indeterminate tomato plant? After all these years of reading descriptions of tomato varieties in seed catalogs, and one important part of those descriptions being det. or indet., the seed companies were just adding a few extra words to help out the printing ink industry? I'll forgive you since you have admitted to me that you've still got a lot to learn about gardening.

Saying it in as few words as possible, a determinate plant sets all of its fruit over a short period of time and the plant dies. An inderminate plant continues to grow until something kills it. Got that? Or it can be explained in a lot of words. 

A determinate reaches a genetically programmed heighth and the growing tip stops growing. Then all energy is diverted to the lateral branches and fruit. Those lateral branches also have a set length of growth so those plants will always grow as a short bushy plant. I might also add that you must NEVER remove a sucker from a determinate as each becomes a fruit-bearing stalk. In some varieties, there is no main stalk and the plant will appear to have 5 or 6 identical stalks branching from the second or third internode. The Paquebot Roma is such a plant.

An indeterminate is virtually a perennial. The growth tip will continue to grow for as long as the plant remains healthy and nothing kills the plant. If all suckers were removed, there are varieties which will grow as much as 15' in a single season even in the northern zones. Yellow pear will easily do that for me and that from volunteer plants. A pair of Tidwell Germans were allowed to branch into laterals at 3' and became the "kudzu" of the garden with 10' branches leaving a trail of 1#+ fruit behind. A Kellogg's Breakfast easily went out 10'. Had frost not killed them, they would still be growing! 

But, now and then you will see a variety listed as semi-determinate. There are not many. You will have to search a long time through the seed catalogs to find one. Wisconsin 55 is such a plant. In the short seasons of zones 4 and 5, it may be an indeterminate as it may not be done when the first frosts arrive. With the longer growing seasons of lower zones, the plant may be all done by early fall. Soil, weather, rainfall, and other factors inform the plant as to what it should do. In our drought last year, my plants were grown as a field tomato would be grown and the only water it received came from the sky. They were finished producing fruit before frosts arrived. Had I grown them at home, and faithfully hauled water to them, there would still have been green tomatoes in October.

So, now you know!

Martin

(Shop computer won't allow me to log in anymore. Stupid Gateway)


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

yah-----isn't it something!
I'm still trying to figure WHY Chuck ever ask me to be moderator!

I told him to find someone who knew at least a little bit about gardening---and next thing I knew-----My name was listed as moderator!

I have MANY, MANY hobbies and know lots and lots about a lot of stuff but, gardening is WAY at the bottom of my knowledge base.

And, SERIOUSLY--------
If you or, anyone wants to be moderator, I'll gladly give up the position.
I am definaly NOT very helpful to any one here.

Some one like you, really should have the Title.

How about it?


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Tallpines, you are doing the job just perfectly! One of the two previous moderators thought that half-cocked advice applicable to a small part of Texas was the only way. When I finally told him to keep his nose out of Northern gardens and stick to the South, he went and hid and was never heard of again. The other was a nice guy who just referred everything to the first! A good garden forum doesn't need a know-it-all moderator. Gardeners are an independent lot and many don't appreciate being told to do something different from the way it's been done for generations in the family. I said no once before and still say no. Besides, you're doing a great job. Even I haven't been able to find one tiny bit of bad advice given out by you! :haha: 

Martin


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

I am also going to add... Tallpines you are an excellent moderator!!
Thank you for all your hard work!! :worship:


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

Well, Thank you........I guess there's truth to the line...."Ignorance is Bliss"......

(at least in my case, it seems to be helping me).


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2004)

Mr. Bot... what must I do to get your free seed? I definitely don't mind paying what they're worth + paque!

God bless you , sir!


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## Guest (Mar 12, 2004)

Paquebot said:


> Tallpines, you are doing the job just perfectly! One of the two previous moderators thought that half-cocked advice applicable to a small part of Texas was the only way. When I finally told him to keep his nose out of Northern gardens and stick to the South, he went and hid and was never heard of again. The other was a nice guy who just referred everything to the first! A good garden forum doesn't need a know-it-all moderator. Gardeners are an independent lot and many don't appreciate being told to do something different from the way it's been done for generations in the family. I said no once before and still say no. Besides, you're doing a great job. Even I haven't been able to find one tiny bit of bad advice given out by you! :haha:
> 
> Martin


I believe you're referring to a Center Point Texas "Master Gardener" that referred all stuff to his head. And then changed it for all to see.

I'm so glad you ousted that person and I will use your advice in place of HIS silly inuendo.

He did not carry the MG course far enough to be effective.

BTW, Ms. Lynn says God bless you and thank you for the wonderful seed. The tricotyledon are planted and under scrutiny.......

Thanks, Martin.

Quote Snapple:

The first sailing boats were built in Egypt!


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## Luv~N~Jesus (May 7, 2003)

I sent you an email and wonder if this kind offer is still valid? I sure hope so!


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## Luv~N~Jesus (May 7, 2003)

Martin, I just received your email! Thank you so much for your generosity! I'm definitely looking forward to checking my mail now!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Sorry all, but I've been busy riding point on another sticky forum and it's taken awhile to clean up my guns in case I am called upon again to rescue damsels in distress or protect the townspeople from the bad guys! Also, something must have been wrong with the notification process as there are 4 replies here that I have not seen. Master computer probably confused since I reply from two different systems and now HT doesn't recognize me from one of them. 

Unregistered, that was a sticky mess. Now I find that that thread is apparently archived somewhere as another member found it yesterday. Good! Let it be an example that forums consist of the members and that all members are the forum. When "Forum Nazis" take over, it is no longer a forum of the members. Enough said. 

WV Rebel, procedure to partake of my seed offer is simple. Just refer back to my original posts on this thread! Contact me with a mailing address and they'll be on the way. No fine print and no hidden requirements. Some dear forum friends do send surprise "gifts" but my biggest need is more land to grow everything that I have now. Booked through 2010 as it is! 

One more thing, the last 30 or so got something other than Wisconsin 55 tomato but a decent canner. I was able to purchase more to keep my promise on Garden Web so Luv N Jesus begins WI55 seed again.

Happy gardening to everyone. 

Martin


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## Luv~N~Jesus (May 7, 2003)

I received the seeds in the mail today Martin and was so excited when I opened them. We just tilled our garden spot today and will be planting potatoes we bought tomorrow Lord willing and now I can't wait to see how all these do too! My husband loves beets and I'm so excited about the tomato seeds too! All of them! I'll keep you updated and hopefully have some seeds to send back to you come Fall. Thank you Jesus Christ and thank Martin for your kindness.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

My goodness! Don't thank me too much or none of the seeds will grow! I had an old aunt whom if you thanked her for a plant of seed, she'd snatch them out of your hands twice as quick as when she gave them! Every possible words of appreciation could be used but never thanks.

Addenda on the beets. Last year, they were almost forced on the customers who came into the local Jung's store. Tons were left over. Not now! Instead of dumping them as instructed, the manager and head clerk decided to hand them out again this year to anyone who wanted them. Gardeners who reluctantly accepted a packet last asked if they could take more than one this year. Two months ago, there was a 2x2x2 box full of trial packets of Red Cloud beets. There are now 18 and I have all of them! Next year, you are on your own for finding them.

There is more concerning my beloved old Wisconsin 55. Seeds of Change had it this year after hearing of my one-man campaign to be that variety's St. Christopher. "Overwhelmed" with requests and sold out several weeks ago. Jung's cut off the supply of packets to their stores but one screamed loud enough that more were released to a single store. Word received today is that no more WI55 seed will be coming down no matter what. Every seed that remains in Randolph is now reserved for catalog sales. 

For those keeping historical records and so on, several sites give the history of WI55 as being developed in the 1950s. That is wrong as it was released in 1942. It's possibly the only 4-way cross to create a new variety. Del Monte, Early Biltmore, John Baer, and ******* were the four varieties involved. All but John Baer are now possibly extinct as separate varieties.

Happy gardening!

Martin


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2004)

We planted the romas and they are coming up in the house. Planted the marigolds yesterday and the morning glories so no word yet. The beets will be saved for the garden area as my test beets from a friend didn't come up yet; maybe too early. Also the WI 55 aren't up yet either; will bring them in from the barn tomorrow.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2004)

Praise the Lord!
Is the offer still good on the free seeds? If so, what do I do to get them?
I truly would appreciate any you want to give away. Thanks, In Jesus Name, 
praisejesus




Paquebot said:


> Third year in a row of giving everyone a chance to get some seeds at the lowest possible price, FREE, and then laugh at the different methods used to kill the seedlings!
> 
> This year's Jung's trial vegetable is an old "heirloom", Little Gem Cos Lettuce. Those who've grown it before know that it's a nice little Romaine lettuce just the right size for a nice salad. About 300 seeds per packet so you'll be able to find every possible way of failing!
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2004)

is this offer stiff available? if so i would truely enjoy any free seeds.
thanks!


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2004)

Piggy, only one way to find out. Follow instructions!


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## WV Rebel (Feb 27, 2004)

Mr. Paquebot,

If you'll remember, I am in here with you on your one experiment.. Out of all those Romas, I have but one that has 3 first leaves. Is this a normal thing? He doesn't look 200% healthy, either.

I see you're sending more seed out, even though it's getting late. I will opt for them. You have my specifics.

God bless you, sir!

Carol Lynn


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

There were between 400 and 500 requests on Garden Web. Most requests were deleted after 10 days unless there were some other reasons to keep a message. If I kept everything, and a new virus slipped past the defenses, it would have a ball harvesting a thousand addresses from this machine so there's nothing to gain and everything to lose if I kept everything. No WV Rebel or Carol Lynn in there! 

The number of tricotyledon seedlings are strictly the luck of the draw. The overall may be 30% or 0% as there is no way to know in advance. And, none of the 2003 seed had been grown out to know what to expect. 15% from 2002 seed and that's from only testing about 100 seeds.

The tricot seedling usually takes a day or so longer to come up and then lags for a few days. Once it gets the first true leaves, it takes off and passes the rest.

Martin


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## Marsh (Apr 29, 2003)

you may have email from me, a lady freezing up north 

Thanks 
Marsh


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## poultryprincess (Aug 9, 2002)

:haha:  :haha:  :haha:  :haha: :eek THANXXXXXXXX so much for the seeds! When you said you would ship to the Great White North I had my doubts ( hey I'm a city girl, comes with the territory) I just checked my mailbox, & your seeds were there.....amazing! I am soaking my peat pellets as I type. Thanx again, & I look forward to planting them. :worship: yvette/poultryprincess


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Yvette, the only difference between US and Canadian mailings was 11 cents postage. No big deal! And Canada does allow "hobby" gardeners to receive seed with no Customs hassle. I haven't watched to see how many Canadians are in HT but you were the only one, that I recall, from Canada to request seeds. In contrast, a lot of Garden Web Canadian members requested the Wisconsin 55 tomato, especially out on the Prairie. Seems that that tomato had a big following out there in the past. When I'd get a request from someone out there who remembered them from their childhood, it really made my day to help bring those memories back. 

Still enough seeds left for about a dozen requests. Marsh was #112. And I only expected 50!

Martin


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

I have 5 wisconsin 55 tomato plants doing well, growing nicely.


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## Marsh (Apr 29, 2003)

Martin, 
Thank You!!! The seeds arrived today and will be planted this weekend. Well at least the ones you can start inside will be. Anything outdoors would float away. Rain Rain go away come back when it's summer. HEHE

Take Care 
Marsh


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## Cara (May 9, 2002)

Ok, I can't stand it. I've tried to not ask for seeds, because I was in the seed swap and didn't want to be greedy, but only 11 of my tomatoes sprouted, so I have to be greedy! I'll PM my address, Martin. I've never planted beets before, but 3 out of four kids love them, so I'll try it!


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## BeeFree (Feb 23, 2004)

Martin,

It is so wonderful. I have several 55 and Roma plants started. They are just over an inch or so tall. If it would warm up here just a bit more, they would really take off. 

I want to try to save seeds from them if all goes well. I am expecting some nice tomatoes from those little plants. When they get big enough to set out, hubby gets to do that as he has a special green thumb with tomatoes. 

I will plant the other seeds when it is time. By the way, do I need to plant the morning glory in the garden or a flower bed? Does it come up from the scattered seeds the next year, or do I have to replant each year? I am not at all familiar with it.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

BeeFree, don't know what to tell you about convolvulus reseeding since I only first grew them last year. Remember that they only got the morning glory name because that's what the flower looks like. I used them along the outside of a flower and vegetable bed as a border plant. No flower is allowed in my vegetable garden unless I can eat it! They are advertised as being only a foot tall. Mine stayed closer to 8 inches but did branch out into a low mound. They probably would have gotten a little bigger had they not been overrun with a yellow pear tomato plant and gotten more water. Since I plant right up to the sidewalk in the front of my home, I'll be using them at the end of that garden for everyone to enjoy. But they will have to compete with small hot ornamental peppers as well in that border. 

Martin


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## boogeyman87 (Feb 26, 2003)

THANX Martin got my seeds today will get them started tomorrow.


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## CMATE (Jan 29, 2004)

:dance: 
Martin,
Thanks so much for the seeds, it has finally warmed enough & I took your advice & waited till April 1 to sow my seeds! :dance: I HAVE SPROUTS :dance: 
I plan on sowing new seeds about every 2-3 weeks, however, both the 55's & the Paquabot's are sprouting nicely. Am keeping an eye out for the special set of leaves, so far everything is just pairs of leaves, no tri's. They are on the window sill as our last "official" frost date is May 15 so I am waiting before i put them outside. Will keep you updated, Thanks, Cathy :worship:


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

Martin,
This inexperienced gardener has taken your lessons on tomatoes and actually made an outline and graft with the info.
Never thought I'd get this excited about growing tomatoes.

I planted about 12 seeds each of WI55 and the Roma's (too early 'cause I wasn't paying close enough attention soon enough!).

No "tri's" ----- BUT ----- I do have one "tri" amongst some seeds I planted from
Seed Savers in Madison. 
Its a LONG TOM.
Is this something to be EXCITED about?


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2004)

A year ago, my study on tricotyledons was pooh-poohed by the tomato heirarchy. Biggest grower of all said that it may be 1 in a million and that he could never recall seeing any in the thousands of seedlings that he grows each year. And when I got them in two different varieties, it seemed quite improbable. This year, everyone is watching their seedlings and they are showing up in a number of varieties. Some thought that it was just a gene in the determinate varieties. As it's turning out, the Paquebot Roma is the only determinate thus far to show that factor. Long Tom adds yet another variety to have it. 

It's also quite unpredictable. After last year, I was certain that we'd see at least 15% tricots. Thus anyone with 25 seeds would surely end up with several. That's not been the case. My first test planting had but a single tricot from 100 seeds. At the same time, a gardener in Canada planted half of her seeds, 13, and got 3 tricots. Nobody else has reported more than 1 thus far. 

Treat your Long Tom tricot as you treat the others. Then watch it and compare its growth and production with the other plants. Because of my efforts, it's now become a nationwide study via the Internet. We hope to accomplish more in several years than it would take in a lifetime if one person was doing the work in a backyard garden.

Martin


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

I'll have several different breeds of tomatoes in my small garden area.
When it comes to blossom time, will I need to take special care so as to not have this Long Tom mix with the other guys?


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Just plant your tricot Long Tom the furthest from any other variety. Have at least 3 or 4 other Long Toms between that plant and the next variety. Some sources will say 25' isolation and others say 35'. I use about 15'. One must decide beforehand as to if tomatoes are going to be grown just for eating or for seed saving. Then plant accordingly or plan on a lot of work to bag blossoms. 

Martin


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

Can I be a PEST and ask one more question?

It seems to me that you alluded to a TRUE 3rd leaf and/or a twin lobe.
In studying my 3 leaved Long Tom, I'm wondering if I have the REAL 'tri'.

On my Long Tom, there is one larger leaf and the other is equally divided into 2 smaller leaves.
Is a "tri" 3 equal sized leaves?


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2004)

You won't have to isolate that one for seed saving but you might watch it to see if it grows faster and produces more fruit. You do not have a true tricot. You have a twin instead even though there are only 3 cotyledons. That's caused by a twin embryo and more common than one hears. Often there will be two stems fused together and 4 leaves. The reason why it is not reported much is that some such mutations are fatal. The seedling dies before the grower notices it. I've seen that once and the seedling never got out of the cotyledon stage before it suddenly died. The true tricot has 3 identical leaves and it's first growth after that will be 3 true leaves. Last year, I regretted having a digital camera as there also was a Riesentraube tricot. The cotyledons grew to well over an inch and then 3 identical leaves filled in between. Viewed from above, it was like a perfect green snowflake!

Martin


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## sweetbabyjane (Oct 21, 2002)

Hi Martin,
We will be eating the last of the beets tonight with supper. Just wanted you to know that they were delicious and very much appreciated!

In case anyone wants a good recipe for them, here's one I got off the web:

about 5 good sized (2-3 inch) beets
1 packed Tablespoon brown sugar (having a sweet tooth I used two). 
3/4 cup orange juice
1/4 cup white vinegar
1/2 teaspoon salt
little pepper (I didn't use any)
1 Tablespoon corn starch

Leave root and about two inches of stem on beets. Steam beets until you can poke a fork into them, then rub the skin off under cold water. Slice beets about 1/4 inch thick.

Mix OJ, vinegar, salt, pepper, brown sugar, and cornstarch together and bring to a boil, stirring frequently. After the sauce thickens, add the sliced beets and cook until tender, around 30 minutes.

Yum,
SBJ


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## evilbunny (Apr 18, 2004)

I believe I have one plant coming with the tricot. This is in the Roma and the beginning leaves are three leaves, two of them the same size and one only slightly smaller. There arent any true leaves on it as yet and it is only about 1" high so far. It isnt any slower growing or starting than the others. 

Is this what I am looking for? I am doing some research tonight to see but would like your opinion.

The seeds are great. Next year I will send you a little soil for you to add to your ground...giggle my version of a play on your wish for more land to grow on....

The beets were planted last week. The lettuce didnt get planted in the first lettuce planting so it will wait another week till I start harvesting some. The morning glory will be planted in a week when I get my flower bed started.

So much fun and its even legal and good for me..WOW


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Evilbunny, sounds like you've got one. Sometimes the third leaf is not exactly the same size as the other two. The prettiest ones are when all three are identical. Then three identical true leaves develop and they are like a living green snowflake. 

It's so funny. A year ago, all of the Garden Web tomato experts thought that I was nuts to pursue it or pulling their legs. This year, we are getting reports of tricots in many varieties. One person finally believed when he got one. Before he could get over his surprise, he found a second one in another variety! Now at least 3 of us can report seeing them in two varieties at the same time.

There is one thing that all agree on. The tricots grow a lot faster than their "normal" siblings. That was exactly what I kept saying for 5 years. Watch the one you have and see if it also will grow faster.

You won't be able to find much to research. The biggest study is going on right now and the scientists and growing fields are the people who got my seed as well as everyone else who has joined the faculty by finding more tricots in other varieties. In other words, you are one of them!

I had no plans on planting any out this year as there are many other things to accomplish in the gardening field. But what happens? There are some volunteer tomato seedlings coming up in a flower planter. Yes, one of them is a tricot. I'll have to grow the darned thing out to find which variety it is. Just like Pandora's Box, can't be stopped!

Martin


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

so far , no tri' s.......but more seedlings are popping up now, so we'll see. Beets are slowly growing........

Thanks Martin, not just for the free seeds, but for the learning you teach !!


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## Guest (May 21, 2004)

Paquebot2 said:


> You won't have to isolate that one for seed saving but you might watch it to see if it grows faster and produces more fruit. You do not have a true tricot. You have a twin instead even though there are only 3 cotyledons. That's caused by a twin embryo and more common than one hears. Often there will be two stems fused together and 4 leaves. The reason why it is not reported much is that some such mutations are fatal. The seedling dies before the grower notices it. I've seen that once and the seedling never got out of the cotyledon stage before it suddenly died. The true tricot has 3 identical leaves and it's first growth after that will be 3 true leaves. Last year, I regretted having a digital camera as there also was a Riesentraube tricot. The cotyledons grew to well over an inch and then 3 identical leaves filled in between. Viewed from above, it was like a perfect green snowflake!
> 
> Martin


I have what I believe to be a true tricotyledon tomato. It started with 3 equal-sized seed leaves and is now producing its first true leaves - of which there are three! The batch of seeds I got produced several of these tricots. I'll be interested to see what/if any fruit it produces.

I found this site through a search for "tricotyledons". It looks like it might be interesting - I shall look around after it post this.

Margaret


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## Miz Mary (Feb 15, 2003)

All of my tomato seeds sre up , and NOT ONE tri !!!
Bummer !!! Oh well, I can still save seed from the WI 55 !! 
MY beets came up VERY sparsely, so I am babying them.
Actually just praying over them as I like my beet greens !!
This is such a learning expirience that I am grateful for !!
I bought a tomato plant at the store - made me mad because it did not say if it was deteminate or indeterminate !!!! So, I searched it out - determinate !!
Thanks Paquebot for the valuble learnin' !!!


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Miz Mary, you may save seeds from both tomato varieties, not just the Wisconsin 55. The tricot gene is in the entire line of the Paquebot Roma. Next year, you may have a dozen tricots! There's just no way to predict what will happen in each generation. 

Martin


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## CMATE (Jan 29, 2004)

Hi Paquabot,
I want to update you that my Roma's & Wisconsin 55's have formed some beautiful looking tomato's, they are still all green & I'm so impatient to see them ripen!! Can hardly wait to try them!!  

Now, I must say, the Paqabot Plant looks kinda wierd, almost like a mutant!! But it does have the most perfectly shaped tomato's. The leaves seem to curl up, like its suffering.....though all my other Tomato's look healthy & 'upright' & they are watered every other day with a timed sprinkler system. Is this right? Or do they need extra water? Though they look that way, the fruit's are growing well.


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2004)

CMate, the Paquebot Roma does naturally have small leaves. But that doesn't mean that you haven't got an oddball. In the years that I grew and stabilized it, I would now and then get one which refused to grow laterals. Instead of forming a bush with half a dozen main stems, the darned thing would grow like a green twig! No seed ever saved from them. 

Also, they are a determinate. Once they begin to set fruit, the leaves are no longer supported by the root system. Every bit of energy goes to ripening the fruit instead. Shortly after that, the entire plant simply gives up and dies. 

Martin


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## kitty32_z8 (Jun 17, 2003)

Martin,
I am having the same deformed leaves on my Wisc. 55's as CMate. I seem to have great fruit setting. The leaves however are not straight and bend right and left, although seem healthy other than that genetic defect. It is not caused from fruit setting being they have been this way since they were about a 1 1/2' tall. Way before fruiting. 
They are monsterous sized plants  ! I have never had plants so heathly. I have a literal jungle. I decided to not prune this year and they have taken over! I dont know yet if any Romas survived being I mixed my seedlings up. No roma fruit that I can tell through the jungle.
Note to self: make sturdier LARGER cages and give mass growing room!  

Kathy


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## evilbunny (Apr 18, 2004)

Thought I'd report in as well.

My tri leaf plant got sat on by my puppies. It is still alive but not very healthy. I swear they go out there every night and camp on it. It has grown to about 2 ft but looks so wimpy next to all my other tomatoes. LOL

I planted some of both varieties. The only one I know is which is the tri leafed one. So I can say with confidence...I have nice looking tomatoes, all my plants have oodles of tomatoes on them. Except the yellow beefsteak type one I got from the nursery here. I am really wondering about that thing. It set two tomatoes which split while still green from too much rain. Then nothing. I get blooms but no tomatoes. 

All in all I should have tomatoes coming out my ears in a few weeks. 

  

I saved the extra seeds you sent for next year. I can hardly wait to get them in the ground at a normal time. This year we had a super late frost and I managed to cover the tomatoes, but not the peppers. :waa:


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Some of you certainly can find new ways to kill my children! A puppy this time? It happens!

And I'm going to "murder" CMate for bringing this thread back to the front page. I'm already getting requests and haven't even got ripe fruit yet! I'll have to see if Tallpines can't hide the darned thing somewhere and we can start over!!

Kathy, you are probably seeing something completely different with the WI55 leaves. There are some varieties which almost look like they want to climb. After the plants get so big, the leaf bracts grow into arcs as if they want to hook onto something for support. Two of mine are doing that and they are trying to grow straight up. They are getting help from a grapevine and pea fence. Two in front of them are not showing any curved leaf bracts but they are sprawling all over the place instead. All reports are that the WI55 is growing to type all over the country. Variations are being mentioned in the Roma but I knew that would possibly happen. As long as they are all setting fruit, you're in business.

Martin


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## southerngurl (May 11, 2003)

I have gotten a few tomatoes myself. They are a fine tasting variety. I've had some stink bug and (if I remember the name right) blister beetle problems, but some pyrethrin has taken care of them. 

Will you be accepting seed donations to send out to others the next go round?


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

Paquebot2-------
This thread has gained popularity and now you want it to go into hiding?
Tsk--Tsk!
Being a "hero" can be a curse sometimes---can't it !?!


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2004)

The problem, Madam Tallpines, is that it indeed is a good thread but monstrously long. Even if someone takes the time to wade through the first 2 pages, there are still 3 to go. As a result of its restoration to the first page on this forum, I received 3 requests for seeds yesterday! OK, so a waiting line has begun. If something happens between now and when the next offer comes along, and I lose those 3 addresses, those gardeners may not end up getting anything. Then I go from being a hero to a cad. Not a good thing for my reputation!

There was one thing which came to light yesterday due to this thread's revival. In the deepest part of Florida, the time to start tomatoes would be November-December. My Garden Web tomato offer begins in the fall here and thus those Florida gardeners receive their seed at the proper time. I may include HT in that offer but strictly for the extreme southern growers. Since the cost of postage is borne 100% by me, with special thanks to the Social Security Administration, I don't think that it would be fair if I were asked to be so generous twice in the same season. I have no way of knowing what the Jung's trial packet for 2005 will be until January. Availability to me may not be until mid-February. Were they something really desired by someone whom I had already included in the GW tomato seed offer, that would put everyone between a rock and a hard spot. It would be a free offer, with no strings attached, but costing me twice as much. I'd be in a tight spot if someone also asked for the second offer since I'd have already sent seeds to that person. Gardeners would be in a bind since they may really want something in the second offer but won't ask out of politeness and fairness. And if I asked for postage to cover the second request, then it isn't free! 

Anyway, I'm not going to worry about crossing that river until I get there. No bridge there yet but it's under construction!

Martin


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## CMATE (Jan 29, 2004)

Paquebot said:


> Some of you certainly can find new ways to kill my children! A puppy this time? It happens!
> 
> And I'm going to "murder" CMate for bringing this thread back to the front page. I'm already getting requests and haven't even got ripe fruit yet! I'll have to see if Tallpines can't hide the darned thing somewhere and we can start over!!
> 
> Martin


  Sorry about that!!  

_Also, they are a determinate. Once they begin to set fruit, the leaves are no longer supported by the root system. Every bit of energy goes to ripening the fruit instead. Shortly after that, the entire plant simply gives up and dies._ 

Thanks for the above explanation, that seems to be the case...but Ooooh they do have the most perfectly shaped tomato's! :worship:


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## tallpines (Apr 9, 2003)

Per Paquebot's suggestion, I' going to LOCK this thread.
Essentially it was for the SPRING 2004 season and to avoid confusion with succeeding growing seasons it will be best to Lock it.

Its been an informative thread-------thanks to all who contributed.


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