# Questions About Going Off-Grid, Building a house, Buying Land, ect.



## EarthView (Apr 19, 2021)

So we are beginning to make plans to move in the next three-ish years. We would like to be completly off grid and as low tech as possible. We are working with a very limited budget, which is part of why we are looking at Tenessee currently. We'd like to build on 2-3 acres, and we are looking to build a small house of 100-150ish sq ft. I have a few questions. 

Heating:
I've been looking and it seems that wood heat will be the cheapest and easiest form of heat for my situation. For small spaces the options seem limited for wood stoves, I'm looking at the cubic mini cub/grizzly currently. Do these have enough space to cook on? They seem very small. How much wood should I aim for per winter? One chord? It seems homes around 1000 feet use three per year, so I'm ballparking here. 

Water:
We are planning on having quiet a few animals (Goats, chickens, rabbits, dogs) so we'll be using alot of water. Would it be cheaper to dig a well or collect rainwater? If we had a well I was looking at "simply" deep well hand pumps. 

Waste:
Are composting toilets legal in Tenessee? It seems so but I'm not completly sure. 

The House:
I'm looking to build a small house. I have very little building experience, I can cut wood, drive nails and measure but have little actual building experience. It seems that sheds are not legal to convert in Tenessee, does this include the buildings sold by JamaciaCottageShop? They advertise some of their buildings as "four season cabins fit for year round living" but I'm not sure if they would be considered "sheds" by the state of Tenessee. Would it be cheaper to build something myself, even with my very limited woodworking skills? I know that it's legal to build your own house, but is it legal to do what I want to do? Build a small structure (under 200 sq ft) to live in with no running water, electricity, ect. as my perment residence? I'm assuming I'll need a building permit for a structure over 100 sq feet, but I read somewhere that any building intended for a living space requires a building permit? A lot of the information I find, if I can find it at all, seems confusing. 

Land:
Is there a certain type of land I should be looking for? Obviously something without an HOA, but other than that I'm not sure what to look for exactly. 




Are there other questions I should be asking?


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I think you need to talk to the building dept in the town you are thinking about living in . 
10x10 is 100sf ? 10x15 is 150sf
My chicken coop is 10x20 and the girls are cramped in there . 
Most towns have a minimum size house , in ny it’s 800 sf my town is 1200 sf
If it’s not to cold a trailer would be better 
Then a empty 10x10 box . 
you could probably find a old trailer for free
I have a old airstream 28 ‘ I think 
We stayed in it for a couple years working on the house 
Most places won’t let you live in a trailer 
On your land for more then 2 weeks


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## EarthView (Apr 19, 2021)

Wellbuilt said:


> I think you need to talk to the building dept in the town you are thinking about living in .
> 10x10 is 100sf ? 10x15 is 150sf
> My chicken coop is 10x20 and the girls are cramped in there .
> Most towns have a minimum size house , in ny it’s 800 sf my town is 1200 sf
> ...


I'm not worried about the amount of space, I'm used to living in small areas. I've considered a trailer but I'm not sure about the laws regarding living in a trailer for extended periods of time, and I don't care much for how they look. I belive the minimum square footage for Tenessee is 120? We don't currently live in Tenessee, and since our plans are so far into the future (3 years) I have no idea which county we will end up in. I think we'll be trying for a country with no building codes (other than the state ones) but the land price will ultimatly decide.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Travel to Tennessee. Look around. Make lists of what you like and don’t like. Price land in different locations. Research septic requirements in the counties you are interested in.

Watch construction videos on YouTube.

Make lists of your priorities for land. Soil depth and type? Trees? Access to roads? Sunlight? (Can vary depending on mountains)


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Water wells are dependent on the soil, rock, etc. You may not be able to hand dig a well at all. You may have to have a well drilled. It may be too deep for a hand pump.

Check rainfall amounts to ensure that a catchment system (given your roof area) will provide enough water for your plans.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

This is my free trailer I have solar panels on the roof with 2 golf cart battery and inverter 
In the closet . 
rain gutter to collect water in 2 trash cans . 
The trailer is 1971 vintage. 
Every thing worked in side heat hot water
All the lights shower , we have a out house 
It pretty comfortable for one or two people out in the middle of nowhere. 
The only problem is around the second week in nov the temps drop into the teens at night and by thanks giving my pillow is frozen to the wall when I get up in the morning . 
But its ok in the low 30s .


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Random information:



Areas With Few or No Codes: East Tennessee – Natural Building Blog


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

There you go your first question answered


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Wood heat is neither cheap, nor easy. Easy is turning up the thermostat on your heater. Spend a winter using only wood for heat and you will understand.

Regarding how much wood you will need, that depends on too many factors for anyone to give you much more than a guestimate. The size of your house, amount of insulation in the house, the weather and the efficiency of your stove all need to be considered. Most people keep 3 or 4 cords on hand. Prepared people keep a dozen or more cords on hand.

If you plan on drinking your water you have 2 options. 
1) well water, you might need to install a filter and softener
2) rainwater, you need to install a collection and retention system. If you want to use it for drinking you need to install a filter and sanitization system. Roof run-off water will contain some nasty bacteria.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

A clean slate approach to a homestead! Lots of planning, and lots of time to do it in, if reading your time frame right. You don't even need the final piece of property yet, so just jump online, find any 2 - 5 acre lot, and use it as an example. Planning should cover:

1. get the legal info, overlay it in Google Earth, and print out a copy of your site plan (have the librarian help, if this seems difficult). Sketch where everything would go, on copies of this site plan. On other sheets, make lists of stuff to look into ... then, go through all of Homesteading Today (HT), searching for similar threads that cover your interests!

2. start thinking about ways to get something like a container home going (8'x20', or 160sq-ft), or a tiny home on wheels (THoW, 8'x16', or 128sq-ft); the container can start out as weekend living, and ultimately become a workshop, storage, or whatnot. the THoW might possibly be built where you are now, or someplace where you can build it. Tons of info on the internet, and either is a great way to get your building skills off the ground (the container is even easier than the THoW, as you only need open the metal doors and build a wall there with french doors in it).

We'll assume you bought a perfect piece of land in the end; no HOA's, no access problems, wooded, water/springs, etc.

I would look at the code info for your state, but not necessarily contact the bldg dept until absolutely ready to get a permit; you'll have more than enough to do determining what is necessary, what others have done in the area, and what your final piece of property will support. These things are not necessarily what the bldg inspector will tell you, as they are less interested in "alternative construction"; they mostly want to see "engineered" stamps on drawings. They would want a septic system first, but not tell you that an outhouse is acceptable. Explore all the alternatives ... you may still want a septic system in the end, but investigate everything.

Heat should not be a problem, as you want a propane tank on the property ultimately, and you can fill your own bottles from it; this means you can use the 30k-btu space heaters (safe for indoor use), while you investigate and build out wood heat. Propane is a great fallback for many reasons. I suggest an old/small kitchen wood stove, as these can still be found out there; the cub/grizzly didn't look right to me. Kitchen wood stoves boil water, allows for some kinds of cooking, and lets you burn some kinds of refuse. Again, propane is the ultimate fuel, and you can start small and grow into whatever size of things is right for you.

See if the area you want to land in supports water hauling; this would start you out with a potable water supply. Add on rainwater collection, and/or drill/dig wells later, once you learn about those. It also helps with fire protection, if you have a buffer of water in a storage tank.

Is that enough to start? Good luck, get the paper napkins out, and plan away!


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

Having lived in Tennessee for about 15 years, I can say that you will probably not have an issue collecting rain water in most normal years, but when a drought hits, you'd be without. Doesn't happen often, but you'd need a backup plan to water your animals. And, TN is a southern state but depending on where you live, you will have problems with rain barrels freezing. (I've spent many hours with an axe/sledge hammer breaking the thick ice on the livestock water. 
You'll definitely want to research the area you want to live. Some have tougher regulations, others not so much. 

They do make these little tiny wood stoves that I've seen people use in tiny houses. Not sure if they have cook tops on them or not. I love wood heat, but do remember, in winter if you sole source is wood and you want to get away for a weekend, there is no one there to feed the stove, your place will be very cold (again, thinking of water freezing) 

Tennessee is a beautiful state, and yes, no income tax and taxes are pretty cheap. That being said, I'd never move back. I went to visit and the population has exploded. No way to get away from people. (that's very important to us..we're just not people people anymore.) 
Good luck!


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

Might look into turning a metal shed into house.

Not saying this place is good or not just some ideas...https://www.carportcentral.com/blog/how-you-can-transform-a-metal-building-into-a-modern-metal-home


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

I think 2-3 acres is not realistic for anything sustainable. You won't have a woodlot large enough to feed your stove, and you will NOT have privacy. Think about it. Even with a single dwelling right in the middle of 2 acres, you are only 200' away from the neighbors. Understand the laws of your state about firing a gun at a distance from neighbors buildings. In my state the law is 450'.

One cord of wood won't get you through a Tennessee winter. If you do your own woodcutting, expect to need between 5-10 acres of woods to produce just a cord. That's through thinnings, culling bad trees, and whatever the winter storms blow down. We fuel our stove SOLELY in winter blowdowns. I've yet to cut a live tree on our land for firewood. But, we have 50 acres.

If designed properly, wind/solar might be able to meet all your energy needs. Ours does, and I run my 240VAC well pump solely off solar. BUT, it needs to be designed with realistic parameters.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Don't buy anywhere on the Highland Rim. Terrible ground. Getting soil to perk is a nightmare.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

I can speak to the wood stove you've been lookin at. The cubic mini Cub is very small, you would need miniature cookware for it. I just bought one for my RV. Smaller







than the pics make it look. Let me see if I can post a pic. I'm a girl with pretty small hands for scale.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

RJ2019, how big is the opening on that stove? I don't think any of the wood that I have would fit through that door.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

As to heating with wood, I have done just that exclusively for 25 years now in an old farm house in Northern Ohio (colder than Tennessee), but it is a lot of constant, year round work, but no better heat on a cold day.

As far as water/power, you may be able to find a year round running stream on some of the properties you look at. that will provide you with a water source, and an avenue for developing a water hydro wheel that provides constant power.

I would find a cheap travel trailer, and then build a roof over it that includes a full length 3 season room where a bigger woodstove could be placed (a cubic is too small).

On a budget, the cheapest toilet is an outhouse that has a pit under it.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I hate going to the out house when it’s -0 snowing ,with the wind howling .


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

So did the pioneers. Chamber pots are vital. Watch the opening scenes of the first episode of Deadwood.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

Wellbuilt said:


> I hate going to the out house when it’s -0 snowing ,with the wind howling .


Which...hardly ever happens in Tennessee.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

It 10o oct 5 it was a cold morning in the hut .
It like this 6 months out of the year. 
Now we stay in the house in the pic , its a real long run in the dark thru the snow ⛄. 
The girls use the buddy system , one stands guard and look for furry creatures a the other one Dose there Business.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Thoughts on land; 4 acres is not enough for what you want to do. Not enough to perpetually supply firewood nor provide food for all those critters you want. You need to buy a bigger piece of land. Otherwise you wind up buying firewood and food for the critters. The good news is that the bigger the piece of land the less per acre it costs. A 40 will only cost a bit more than a 4 acre piece. Don't buy land unless it has a readily available supply of water. Springs and streams are good but the best is a driven sandpoint well. A sandpoint well can be done for $500 and may provide you with potable water. The land must be relativly free of rocks and have the water table closer to the surface than 25 feet. 

Get the biggest air tight wood stove you can find. Mine has a 3 1/2 cubic foot firebox. You need that capacity to put in enough wood to last all night. If you don't need much heat in warmer weather you just build a small fire.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

What you should know about homesteading and living off grid is, it will cost more than you thought it would, everything will take longer than you thought it would, and it is a lot of work.

Water is critical, without a well you have to collect water or haul it. I have done both, it gets to be real old, real fast.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

RJ2019 said:


> I can speak to the wood stove you've been lookin at. The cubic mini Cub is very small, you would need miniature cookware for it. I just bought one for my RV. Smaller
> View attachment 95786
> than the pics make it look. Let me see if I can post a pic. I'm a girl with pretty small hands for scale.


That isn't a stove, that is a toy that looks like a stove. To heat anything bigger than a a pup tent, you would have to be feeding it every five minutes. An hour after you go to bed the fire will be out. And because it is so small, you will have to cut your wood in small pieces. This will take longer and use more fuel in your chain saw.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Once you have everything built and set up and paid for you can live very cheaply. I spend $25 a month in property taxes, $15 a month for truck insurance, $40 a month to buy hardwood logs (only pine and popple on the property) for firewood, and $100 a month for gas and groceries. A small solar set up provides lights and TV. A generator for running the well pump, power tools, home theater, and the washer/dryer.

I plan to put in a vegetable garden which will reduce the grocery bill. I could raise critters but it's not cost effective with the current price of groceries. I hunt and have raised chickens so have those skills in the toolbox if the SHTF.


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## EarthView (Apr 19, 2021)

As for the amount of land, 2-3 acres is about all we can get with our budget ($12,000 and under). I have no delusions about off-grid being easy, or cheap. I was raised on a farm, currently living in the middle of town and I despise it. I would much rather live in a "small box" (lmao), having to feed a fire, haul water to animals, ect than continue living in town. At the moment I don't have any plans to use solar power (other than maybe a very small panel to change a phone and laptop). I did look a bit at land in Alaska and Colorado but Alaska (Grizzly Bears, remoteness) didn't look too promising. Land seems dirt cheap in CO but thats probably because it's almost desert in those areas. I do understand that with such a small area of land I would need to bring in firewood/wood pellets and animal feed. We're trying to get started with what money we have, which isn't much. Something to live in comes first, than gardens, than fences, livestock, and so on. I doubt the CO properties I've looked at could support grazing animals much anyways? Even the 10 acre ones.

For the stove, I do think we'll have to look at full sized ones. The Minis are just too small to cook on.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Nimrod said:


> The land must be relativly free of rocks and have the water table closer to the surface than 25 feet.


I can't even imagine what it would be like to live somewhere where the water table is at twenty five feet. The average here is three hundred feet.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

EarthView said:


> As for the amount of land, 2-3 acres is about all we can get with our budget ($12,000 and under). I have no delusions about off-grid being easy, or cheap. I was raised on a farm, currently living in the middle of town and I despise it. I would much rather live in a "small box" (lmao), having to feed a fire, haul water to animals, ect than continue living in town. At the moment I don't have any plans to use solar power (other than maybe a very small panel to change a phone and laptop). I did look a bit at land in Alaska and Colorado but Alaska (Grizzly Bears, remoteness) didn't look too promising. Land seems dirt cheap in CO but thats probably because it's almost desert in those areas. I do understand that with such a small area of land I would need to bring in firewood/wood pellets and animal feed. We're trying to get started with what money we have, which isn't much. Something to live in comes first, than gardens, than fences, livestock, and so on. I doubt the CO properties I've looked at could support grazing animals much anyways? Even the 10 acre ones.


If you are determined, then go for it. Stay within you budget, and don't get in a hurry.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

Colorado is a great place to homestead, not that I am biased in any way! The tricks to good parcels of land in this state is to stay away from the expensive places and get to an elevation that has the land type you want. For example, we wanted pines, which tend to grow at certain starting elevations; for us, that was 7500'. We found 40 acres (fully treed, with a well) that we considered inexpensive, no HOA/restrictions, and in the foothills of the front range of CO. We didn't pay $12k, but we estimate that acreage in our land type goes for roughly $500 to $1000 per acre, so you'd be able to get into min 10 undeveloped acres pretty easily!

To get true grazing land, you'd have to get to a different (lower) elevation; we plan to overcome the grazing issue on our land with 1.) goats (they eat anything, and will help us clear the land), and 2.) sylva-forestry, where we hope to get hay and feed pastures going in between the trees. Previous owner actually ran cattle on our land, but heck if I know what they ate ... there are grasses here and there, but it must take some amount of acreage per head of cattle; it may have been more of a tax benefit.

We got onto the land inexpensively, built the main home,support buildings, and all services as inexpensively as possible, and are now mortgage- and grid-free; everything DIY. Even with a well, we haul water; perhaps one key is that we got to minimal water use. While the projects never end when building out necessary _and_ desired infrastructure, they are fun and rewarding.

I say go for it!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Goats do NOT eat anything, but they will eat the bark off a pine tree and kill it.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

IIRC, it was close to 0 degrees in Texas a few weeks ago. It doesn't matter if extreme cold is rare in your area if you get hit with extreme cold when you aren't prepared.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I’m in ny a I have 21 acres I paid just under 2k a acre , things are expensive here , I would think you could get 6/8 acres for your 12k ? 
I have 3 Separate building lots witch is worth more .
I think 120 sf is way to small to live in , you should shoot for 16x20 any way 320 sf . 
this would cost a little more in material but the time to build it would not be much more and when your done it would have value .
any type of water is $$$$ wells $$$$ you have to have water . 
It would be rough sitting in a 10x12 box In the dark . 
My place runs on battery’s and solar panels , my trailer ran on 2 golf cart battery’s 2 solar panels and a charge controller and small inverter . 
I had a light bulb hanging off a Electric wire over the picnic table on my porch . 
This was a huge up grade 👍 it’s nice to listen to the radio , But I get 2 Stations that play the
same 40 songs on a loop day in day out . 
With Covid Att had to add cell service so every one can go to school , so I get 2/3 bars now . 
And can get service or the girls down load movies .


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

I meant to say I spend $100 a week on gas and groceries, not $100 a month.



muleskinner2 said:


> I can't even imagine what it would be like to live somewhere where the water table is at twenty five feet. The average here is three hundred feet.


On the home place I hit water about 4 feet down. A basement is out of the question unless you want an indoor swimming pool. The glacier 10,000 years ago left a lot of sand when it melted and all the lakes MN is famous for. The neighbor drilled a well even though he could get water a few feet down. He went through 80 feet of sand and 60 feet of clay before hitting sand and water again. His well water has lots of iron in it. The white plastic shower stall was orange. I have a sandpoint well 20 feet deep. I get beautiful potable water with little iron.

You have to check very carefully before you buy land in CO and other western states. In some of them you can't drill a well or collect rainwater. The land is cheap because there is no legal way to get water.


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## EarthView (Apr 19, 2021)

Nimrod said:


> I meant to say I spend $100 a week on gas and groceries, not $100 a month.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most of the land I was looking at allowed the owner to drill a well.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

When you find land you want to by you should contact a well driller and find out what it’s going to take to get water .


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## EarthView (Apr 19, 2021)

Wellbuilt said:


> I’m in ny a I have 21 acres I paid just under 2k a acre , things are expensive here , I would think you could get 6/8 acres for your 12k ?
> I have 3 Separate building lots witch is worth more .
> I think 120 sf is way to small to live in , you should shoot for 16x20 any way 320 sf .
> this would cost a little more in material but the time to build it would not be much more and when your done it would have value .
> ...


In TN most of the land is over $12k (for 1-4ish acres) that I'm looking at. We're considering CO now because of the cheaper land price, I saw 40 acres for $19,000 (And the owner was allowed to drill a well). Not as tree dense and green looking as other places but still very pretty, especially with the mountain views.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Are you looking at east or west of the Rockies?


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## EarthView (Apr 19, 2021)

Danaus29 said:


> Are you looking at east or west of the Rockies?


At this point I'm looking anywhere. We don't have much preference to what the land looks like as long as we can get enough water, and grow a garden. When the time to buy gets a bit closer we might find we have more preference but for now we're looking at cheap properties.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Cheap properties always have serious flaws. Whether it's water, flood plains, soil doesn't perk. This is one time you will get what you pay for and probably be stuck with it.


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## EarthView (Apr 19, 2021)

I've been looking at laws some more and it seems building a house in CO is more difficult than I would have thought. What are the laws regarding living in a camper/RV?


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## Hitch (Oct 19, 2016)

For the structure, you may be better off buying a Tuff Shed and having it installed for you. They come in all different sizes and styles. We spent $6k on a nice one with a loft and some additional upgrades. You can then insulate the walls and put up drywall to make it more like a home. We stayed in our shed for about 4 years before buying a 41' trailer we put up a few months ago.

For irrigation water you can put in a shallow well. If you want drinking water you'll need to go deeper and may require a permit. Buying land with a well or water at the road would be easier.

For waste, you can buy a porta-potty for about $700 and have it emptied as needed. Again, this is what we did and it worked for us. If you opt for a trailer, you can bury a septic holding tank and again the same service that empties the porta-potty can empty that too.

One thing I noticed missing from your original post was power. Think about that before buying you shed as you may want to install solar panels on the shed and you'll need a proper pitch and orientation to the path of the sun.


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

I live in CO, and as a western state, it has the same water rights issues that many western states have (lots of history to read about). However, they aren't impossible to work with, you just have to do the reading to understand what affects you and what doesn't, and determine what you're going to do about it. Some of it depends on what size parcel of land you buy ... more land = less official restrictions.

Rainwater collection was off the table for some years, but it's back on again. Everyone that wants to will collect rainwater anyway, whether allowed at the time or not. There are no rainwater police in the rural areas; there _are_ plenty of nosy neighbors if you get too close to a city, or buy a very small amount of acreage ... that's why we bought 40, way out there. If you're in those areas, you're probably going to get utilities as part of the land price, and prices go up accordingly.

You should absolutely be able to drill a well no matter what size rural land you buy, but there are restrictions on what you can do with that water, again based on parcel size. If less than a certain size, they may not officially allow you to water a herd of cattle; at 40 acres, we have no such restrictions at all. Unfortunately, drilling a well just isn't cheap these days ... one of many reasons why we haul potable water, but it works for us, and the county supports it very well ... saved 10's of $1000's in the short term, if not more.

In the rural areas (low population) everyone does what they want ... when you start asking for permission, things might get interesting.


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## EarthView (Apr 19, 2021)

Hitch said:


> For the structure, you may be better off buying a Tuff Shed and having it installed for you. They come in all different sizes and styles. We spent $6k on a nice one with a loft and some additional upgrades. You can then insulate the walls and put up drywall to make it more like a home. We stayed in our shed for about 4 years before buying a 41' trailer we put up a few months ago.
> 
> For irrigation water you can put in a shallow well. If you want drinking water you'll need to go deeper and may require a permit. Buying land with a well or water at the road would be easier.
> 
> ...


I really would love to get a shed, but as far as I know they are not legal to live in most places.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

really no body wants you living next to them in a camper . 
The thing is all my lots started out being listed for 40 k each but the sold for way less
Lind land that is in the market for 3/4byears and it will be cheep 🤗


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

I see no difference in a 120 sq foot shed or a shack you build your self , neither one is a home . You can meet building code with a shed .


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Neither one is a home? Wow. What a priggish thing to say.


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Neither one is a home? Wow. What a priggish thing to say.


. 

I did not mean To offend any one , it’s just fact . 
I i just don’t think a guy that can measure and cut wood could really out build a shed Company . 
And if the shed meets code it has to be allowed ?
Its 2021 there are not to many places you can live in a box with no running water or power .
I’m just trying to be helpful 🤗


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

Try Kentucky or West Virginia. Affordable land out there. I'm seriously considering making a visit and seeing whether it'll be for me. Got a buddy whose sister lives in WV and her house is 5 bedroom 3 bathroom and her monthly payments are $600. She lives in Buckhannon. She tells me the more rural, the cheaper the properties are. She pays like maybe $1k a year in property taxes.

I live in Kansas and you can find houses worth $30k-$55k in town (Wichita) and aren't in a horrible low income area (avoid Planeview like the plague). My wife's first house was $55k and we sold it and moved to a bigger house in Bel Aire. My property taxes are $1,500 a year. The same house if transported to Austin would be easily $400k with property taxes ranging from $10k-$30k. If you look for property 1 to 2 hours away from Wichita, land prices are SUPER affordable. Trailers are allowed but I would not honestly recommend them in a tornado alley scenario. I have been told the tornado alley is shifting closer to Tennessee those days.

I've got a friend in Oklahoma living in a shed. A literal shed after his house who was owned by his mom burnt down (arson but the perpetrators weren't caught or found) so she was dying of a kidney disease so her son got the shed and fixed it up really nice. So Oklahoma allows it.

Saw this on FB so you can order a shed customized if you want. A lot of sheds are modified into tiny homes.360sheds


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Nimrod said:


> Thoughts on land; 4 acres is not enough for what you want to do. Not enough to perpetually supply firewood nor provide food for all those critters you want. You need to buy a bigger piece of land. Otherwise you wind up buying firewood and food for the critters. The good news is that the bigger the piece of land the less per acre it costs. A 40 will only cost a bit more than a 4 acre piece. Don't buy land unless it has a readily available supply of water. Springs and streams are good but the best is a driven sandpoint well. A sandpoint well can be done for $500 and may provide you with potable water. The land must be relativly free of rocks and have the water table closer to the surface than 25 feet.
> 
> Get the biggest air tight wood stove you can find. Mine has a 3 1/2 cubic foot firebox. You need that capacity to put in enough wood to last all night. If you don't need much heat in warmer weather you just build a small fire.


i would starv if i had to forage for food in my 5.5 acres woods.
Heating with wood alone with one person is hard. If you are gone 8 10 hours day. Away overnight, injured sick hospital stay trip whatever you come home to frozen busted pipes. But guess if you are living with no running water its ok.


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## RJ2019 (Aug 27, 2019)

Wellbuilt said:


> .
> 
> I did not mean To offend any one , it’s just fact .
> I i just don’t think a guy that can measure and cut wood could really out build a shed Company .
> ...


Most definitely not helpful. This is a homesteading forum, where (ideally) we are supportive of and embrace different styles of homesteading. Your last two posts were neither helpful nor supportive. It doesn't really matter if it's up to your standards or not, anything can be called a home.

My next door neighbor has a tent in their backyard for reasons unbeknownst to me. Do I care? Not one bit. You probably would, though. And why?


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## Wellbuilt (Dec 25, 2020)

That is a easy one , some one living In a box with no electric or water just drags every ones property value down? That’s why there are building codes . 
It one thing to have a tent in the yard it’s another thing to be living in it 😳
Developing land is very expensive , it dosent make sense to invest all the money with out a house .


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## Tom Horn (Feb 10, 2021)

.

Caveat alert! To the OP poster and all the posting sheriffs, I didn't read all of the postings so there may be duplicate information offered.

Number one, you currently have a computer and internet, therefore you are sitting in front of the world's largest information library. I have on more than one occasion on these very boards done an internet search and have dug up a surprising amount of info about the questions that an inquiring mind wanted answered, posted it to them and answered at least some of their questions. 

Just about all that you could possibly need to know about an area is already up on the net and if it's not, you can get local phone numbers in your geographical area(s) of interest and let your fingers do the walking about land values, zoning restrictions for your house/trailer, septic restrictions, how much it costs to punch a well, put in a septic, if there is a livestock auction in the area, a custom kill shop for butchering, a lumber yard, a Walmart or a Piggly Wiggly. If you don't already know about YouTube, you can pull up a video about just about anything that's legal to engage in doing.

Number two, like many, you are James Bondish about the area where you are currently living and what if any off-grid, agrarian, rural living experience you have, i.e. calluses on your hands, etc.. This causes one to either insult your intelligence offering you already known information, or to assume knowledge that you do not have, causing you consternation .

Number three, everybody has more time than money and wants to keep expenses at rock bottom. Financially are you in the church mouse category, so poor that you can't even pay attention, dirt floor poor, poverty level, lower middle-class, or what? 

Number five, if you're a Yankee wanting to move into Rebel country don't try to fake it to make it. Here the old time locals say yuns rather than you-all or y'all and only politicians call it Missourah. 

Folks can sniff out a poser rube faster than ol' Jack can smell a dead armadillo and drag it into the yard. 

Now, ask me what you want and I'll tell ya what I know.

Dug this up in two minutes.






Deep Well Hand Pumps of Bison Pumps is Best Well Water Pump 

You use the above information to find out the cost.


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## Hitch (Oct 19, 2016)

Earthview, out of curiosity how do you anticipate paying for land? Are you going to need to finance it?


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Forcast said:


> i would starv if i had to forage for food in my 5.5 acres woods.
> Heating with wood alone with one person is hard. If you are gone 8 10 hours day. Away overnight, injured sick hospital stay trip whatever you come home to frozen busted pipes. But guess if you are living with no running water its ok.


The OP won't have as big a problem in Tennessee as I have in MN. If I fill my wood stove full of wood and it will heat the house for at least 12 hours, even at -40. A big wood box is needed for a long burn. I get plenty of uninterrupted beauty sleep and need it. I can be gone overnight if I get lucky.

At the home place I have a propane furnace for backup. It will keep the pipes from freezing at -40 but won't keep it comfortable for habitation. I have it set up where it is easy to blow out the pipes with the compressor. If I was sent up the river I could winterize the cabin except for all the canned goods I have stashed away.


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## kdtdenton (Dec 10, 2016)

Hi Earthview, I am always "tickled" (as we say it back home in GA) to hear that someone wants to get out there and get going. I am fairly well a newbie myself ... I bought my land in 2017, and I've been out here full time almost two full years now. And as a preacher used to say when I was a kid ... "I may not tell you much, but I'll tell you more than I know" 

All this is colored by the personal experience of only one guy on the internet who is still a newb. There are lots of probably smarter opinions out there, so please ... take with grain of salt. If I am saying anything you already know, please understand it is not my intent to be condescending ... I'm doing this for the first time myself, LOL ...

*Budget *... $12k is REALLY thin. Especially with lumber the way it is now (almost all materials in fact). And it isn't just lumber. It's tools. To frame the house in any kind of realistic timeframe, IMHO you'll need a framing nailer. And an air compressor to run that nailer. A generator to run that compressor. Circular saws. Table saws. Miter Saws. Drills. Levels. On and on and on and on. Every other day you'll be on a BMS trip. BMS = Buy More Stuff. It always ALWAYS costs more than you think. Always. I think I got away with about $30 per square foot (just materials!), finished out to the drywall, and that was doing almost everything by myself, solo. That's before adding in electrical, plumbing etc. Just the building. Not sure where or how far along you are in your life, but maybe you can hold out a little while and save all the money you can. Or perhaps look for less expensive land, generally the more remote it is, the less you'll pay (not always). Also, the larger the parcel, generally the less you'll pay per acre (again not always). Just be sure it's not cheap because it's next to a an EPA superfund site or something like that.

You might also choose a house design that is easy to add onto.

The good thing is, as long as you can get your structure dried in quickly (frame + wrap + roof + siding) you can take your time with the interior. One approach might be to calculate the materials amount for your land plus dry-in, then multiply the house cost by at least 50% (to account for tools/miscalculations/do-overs/etc).

Also, while you're saving up, you can study and research and plan. Take classes that are offered by the extension service in your county. See if the community college offers agriculture or construction courses. Buy and read books on construction/farming/water treatment. See if you can lend a hand with someone else who is building their place, you'll make good friends and you might be able to call in a favor when needed 

*Tools.* I say get good stuff, the best you can afford. I don't want to turn this into a commercial, but I think in retrospect cordless tools would have been safer, because I was tripping over the cords all the time. But you have to recharge them, and some things just aren't typically available in cordless, like table saws, so you still have to have a generator. Personally for corded tools, I like DeWalt and Makita. For cordless tools I am MakitaMan all the way. But that's just me. I will say this, though, unequivocally ... stay the heck away from Harbor Freight, at least for anything with a motor in it. Cheap is expensive and dangerous. Stick with the good high-end brands. Look for what rental shops rent out. Ask those guys, because those tools are treated mercilessly by renters. If it can handle being rented, it's probably good to go. You get what you pay for, can't say it enough.

*Parcel Size*. I would say to have at least 10 acres before you get going.15 is better. 20 is plenty. Especially if you want critters.

*Land*. I would say mostly flat, and elevation above the 100yr flood plain. Woods or pasture are your choice, but I would cut down any trees that are in a falling radius of your house/anything you care about. Rocky soil is no fun. At my place you go down 6" to hard sandstone, and after that you pretty much need dynamite, LOL. Do your research, visit the place at night and during different winds to make sure there are no annoying noises/smells, etc. Nothing like investing 20k in land only to find out you have live with the stink of a feed lot half a mile to the north, because the only day you visited the place was when the winds were blowing the stink away from you. get on google maps and look at the satellite pics around there. Ask the neighbors how they like it. Most rural people are generally nice and if they're not, that might be a warning sign. Look out for meth-head trailers, and trashy, unkempt places. It sounds arrogant, but criminals/druggies/etc tend to live in dumps. Good folks tend to be intelligent and disciplined with self-respect and therefore tend to have places that are at least clean and well kept.

*House Size.* 150 sq ft is really really small, even for one person. A lot of people do it, and do it well. My place is 16x24 plus an 8x16 add-on for a total of just under 512 sq ft. And it looks like a hoarder lives here.

*Construction*. Get a standing seam metal roof. Get a standing seam metal roof. Get a standing seam metal roof. Shingles are just ... junk IMHO. This was my biggest mistake. They peel off in the wind, they are a pain in the neck to install, you can't (or at least shouldn't) drink catchment from them, it goes on and on. . Your great grandkids will probably sit warm and dry under your 26ga galvalume roof. Make sure the coating is safe for potable water.

Study framing as much as you can. Learn things like running floor sheathing perpendicular to the joists rather tan parallel to them, and why this is best practice.

I built my place with pier and beam. That way I can get under the house if I need to, and it simplifies foundation fixes, if you wind up with a problem.

I framed my place with 2x6 walls, and got the really good doors/windows. It has come back to me in energy savings ... My electric bill is $75/month and I run the AC in August at 72 deg.

I also refuse to put any kind of hole in the roof, except for the ridge vent. This makes roofing easier, and more reliable. I also don't put anything in the walls. Not electrical. Not plumbing. Nothing. All the wiring is in metal conduit. I can get to every single inch of everything in my house if I need to. But that's just me. Oh, by the way ... before you cover the hole for the ridge vent, staple some bug screen over it. Those stupid little louvers don't keep out the wasps & moths.

In short, you get what you pay for, you really do. If you want a cheap, shoddy house, you have to start with cheap shoddy materials. Buy the very best stuff you can afford.

Take care to be safe, especially if you are building solo. You might be an hour from any help (remember the ambulance has to make a round trip). Have a good first aid kit, and know what to do if you get grievously injured, like, say, with a saw. If you have a trailer, unhook it before you begin work, so you can hop in & haul butt if you need to. Get a harness for working on the roof. Have a friend that you can check in with, that will call out the Marines if you don't check in.

My approach was to build the shed first. That way, while you're building, you have a place to store and lock up your tools and materials that can't be just covered up with a tarp. I would say at least a 12x16. Gambrel roofs are terrific IMHO because of the added space. Plus, you'll get a little bit of experience and intuition, and learn a few (probably painful) lessons while you're framing it, that you can bring to bear on the main house.

If you ever have to work solo, bear in mind it will be frustrating, painful and slow. What takes 2 minutes with a partner can take 15-20 minutes on your own. Buy many clamps. And there will sometimes be things you just simply cannot do on your own. You just can't. That's when you call in those favor from earlier LOL.

If you want solar someday, consider building single-slope structures with the roofs sloping down toward the south with about a 4 or 5-pitch. This will put you in a good position to catch maximum sunlight during the hot summer, when the AC will be working hard. I goofed here also, I built my place running north-south.

Oh yeah, one other thing ... get a standing seam metal roof 

*Critters*. I started with chickens, because it was easy enough for a goof like me to learn, and there is so much information out there about doing it. I wanted to do sheep this year, but the budget and time, and expense couldn't make it happen.

*Water*. Start with rain catchment. And treat from that. I use a DIY water filter made with Doulton ceramic filter candles. make sure everything your water touches (containers, pipes, pumps, barrels etc) is food-safe, NSF certified.

That's all I can think of now, just a brain dump. I wish you the best and look forward to hearing how it goes.

Regards
--K


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Wellbuilt said:


> I hate going to the out house when it’s -0 snowing ,with the wind howling .


You could always just wait until it warms up, about two in the afternoon.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

We built Pole Building covered with Corrugated Metal. Found using regular Stick Built was much better with 29Ga. Barn Metal.

I would heat with Wood. Triple Wall Flue Kits are the way to go.

We used Rain Water. Remember to let Rain wash the Roof off before collect. Do this by flipping a Flap at Your Gutter Y. Had a Well Drilled 325 feet but had water at 100 feet. Had a Tripod, Pully, Rope and Well Bucket to draw water.

If you want to invest Solar is way to go on Refrigerator, Freezer and Lights.

big rockpile


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

Danaus29 said:


> Wood heat is neither cheap, nor easy. Easy is turning up the thermostat on your heater. Spend a winter using only wood for heat and you will understand.
> 
> Regarding how much wood you will need, that depends on too many factors for anyone to give you much more than a guestimate. The size of your house, amount of insulation in the house, the weather and the efficiency of your stove all need to be considered. Most people keep 3 or 4 cords on hand. Prepared people keep a dozen or more cords on hand.
> 
> ...


Wood heat needs a person 24 7. If you work go away for a weekend get sick or hurt its very hard to deal without heat.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Forcast said:


> Wood heat needs a person 24 7. If you work go away for a weekend get sick or hurt its very hard to deal without heat.


We froze the winter after I had my surgery. I couldn't carry wood through the basement or go down the stairs. The electric bills ran about twice as much as usual. 

Alleyyooper had a furnace installed before he passed away. He wasn't able to keep up with stocking to wood pile or the stove.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

We went through this.

Two Propane Heaters will keep our House warm. We have Central Heat. We used some Wood Heat but I can't cut anymore.

Decided to just heat with Propane but our Son talk us into heating with some wood.

big rockpile


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