# New kind of fondation ???



## RangerBrad (Aug 15, 2008)

Howdy folks, Was talking to a friend of my dads and he says he uses a new kind of plasic fondation that is the whole comb so all the bees have to do is fill them and cap them. He says it has greatly improved his honey production as the bees don't have to build comb on top of fondation. I talked to a local beekeeper and he says he's never heard of them. Have any of yal heard of these types of fondation? and if you have ever used them how did they work for you? It sounds very interesting to me. Brad


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

It is called Honey Super cell. I don't use any of the plastic parts.

http://www.honeysupercell.com/


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## RangerBrad (Aug 15, 2008)

Iddee, Thank's for the come back, You don't use any plastic parts and I respect that. Can you tell me why? Is it tradition, health or cost factor? Maybe you can give me a heads up about it. Thank's, Brad


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

Only tradition....I'm too old to change now. 

People scream "natural" beekeeping, then buy plastic hive bodies, frames, foundation, and lids. I don't understand it. I am staying with wood and wax, and langstroth hives.


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## RangerBrad (Aug 15, 2008)

Thank's for the info. I think I'll look into these. My main emphasis will be on home production(most with the least) and pollination of garden and fruit trees. Brad


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## MikeParks (Apr 2, 2006)

Interesting. I wondered why there wasn't full drawn comb. But looking at the site made me realize something...

Where WILL the bees build their drone cells? I know they need the drones and (from what I have read and heard) there really is nothing you can do to stop them from making at least the number of drones they need to be a healthy hive. So where will they build them?

Also, how do you clean them? I mean, from what I have read (and heard) it is a good idea to rotate out brood wax to keep down disease and pests, but with it being plastic how would that work?

Mike


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

Maybe next year they will come out with plastic robotic bees and we won't need drones. No more dead outs, either. :bouncy: :baby04:


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

Ii have a mix of plastic, wooden frames with plastic foundation, wooden frames with normal foundation and a couple starter strips in frame. The bees worked all just fine.

That is my limited experience.

I just picked up 50 frames of the Honey Super Cell Medium honey frames. They have a little pip in the bottom of the cell so the queen does not lay (thus no queen excluder needed). Engineering of the frames pretty much rocks.

I also just got about 300 one piece frames dipped in wax Pierco.

I'll let folks know how it goes.

As tot he deep HSC pre-drawn. I have no experience. I want to run two colonies on it, but I am not ready to drop the cash on 'em yet. 40 frames to run two double deeps costs a pretty penny.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Dec 31, 2008)

I have over 100 hives that use 100% Honey Super Cell deeps or Permacomb frames. HSC as you have just heard are fully drawn deep frames with all small cells. PermaComb are fully drawn medium frames which the cells measure 5.1.

I have been using PC exclusively since 2002 and started adding HSC two years ago. I also do not use any treatments in my hives of any kind and have been increasing my numbers steadily making use of splits, swarms and removals from buildings. I buy no queens.

Mike if you want to clean the frames they can be taken to a car wash and cleaned that way. They can take temperatures up to 220 degrees. I have yet to do this but it is an option.

When using these type of frames you have to change a lot of your methodology. A person could write a book on this, but suffice it to say that there are little habits I incorporate in my using them that make my beekeeping much easier as a whole.


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

I've been reading up on this but...

...Bill can you explain how you introduce our bees to these frames and how long it takes for acceptance?

I've heard nothing but good things about HSC.

To tackle drone populations I have seen people cut panels out of the frame or use the green "IPM" drone frames. I've seen micr-frames built from HSC as well.

A very interesting experience it seems.

Bill, do you have photos you can share and can you give us an idea of the layout and densities of your bee yards?

I am not a skeptic I really would love to know more.


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## the kid (Jul 9, 2006)

I f the main reson you are getting bees are for the garden ,,, 
I have 4+ fruit trees in my yard 2 years ago not a bee was seen on any of them ,, wasp and yellow jackets but no honeybees ... that was with 2 , hives ,, last year they were full of honeybees ... bees go were they want not were you want them .. 
tom


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## Durandal (Aug 19, 2007)

the kid said:


> I f the main reson you are getting bees are for the garden ,,,
> I have 4+ fruit trees in my yard 2 years ago not a bee was seen on any of them ,, wasp and yellow jackets but no honeybees ... that was with 2 , hives ,, last year they were full of honeybees ... bees go were they want not were you want them ..
> tom


Not too sure what this was in response to, but my previous question was directed towards Bill and his use of HSC and no treatments. 

Plenty of anecdotal evidence suggests that keeping bees in small cell separate and in low density yards with large spacing between colonies works really well. If Bill is not doing that and has higher density yards it makes his results even more positive.

As to your comments, while you cannot force bees to visit anything there will be periods of bloom that the bees will definitely visit. Four trees are such a small number in a veritable sea of sources that its not that unusual to see them not visiting them. But I will lay money that i,f say, Black Locust is in full bloom that they have bees in 'em and hitting 'em hard. Likewise in the alf-alfa going into the second cutting which is also our normal dearth period around here.


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## RangerBrad (Aug 15, 2008)

Thank's folks, I find this all very intresting and am calling the company tomorow. Speaking with the family friend agin this weekend he stated they also sold the larger cell frame for drones and that he used 9 small cell frames and 1 large cell frame per brooder and used 2 brooders per hive. He stated that by using theses supercell frames he was able to build a very strong hive in a short period of time.


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## BULLSEYE BILL (Dec 31, 2008)

Richard, I have been using Permacomb for about seven years almost exclusively, so when I decided to start incorporating HSC I just added a full box of it to the hive and let them expand into it. Other options were to split the hive and put one or two of the medium broods on or under one deep of HSC.

I also put swarms on HSC but it is a bit trickier. Since it is not pre-waxed I would either trap them into the box or use a queen excluder as an includer so the queen could not leave the hive.

One of my favorite tricks is to take some honeycomb with honey in it and mix it into a paste. Then using a hive tool or spatula, smear a couple of bands across both sides of the frame. The bees really take to it and will usually stay with the frames.

I see no reason to worry about drones, they find enough space in between the boxes of frames to lay drones.

Yes I have many photos, and need to update them. Until I do you can check out these --> http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=257111195 after you sign in click the word pic under my picture and it will take you to a number of albums. Enjoy.


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