# micro wind?



## Riverdale (Jan 20, 2008)

Anyone using micro wind for power? I'm in central Michigan, and am concerned that solar will not always be a viable option, but the wind (almost) always blows.
I would be happy to use a mix.
I am not looking for federal or state 'credits' for alt energy (but I 'might' use them, depending on the hoops)
I would like to have a $5 electric bill every month (we are at about $75/ month average) 
Would like to have this installed by 2023, because I woould like to retire


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Riverdale said:


> Anyone using micro wind for power? I'm in central Michigan, and am concerned that solar will not always be a viable option, but the wind (almost) always blows.
> I would be happy to use a mix.
> I am not looking for federal or state 'credits' for alt energy (but I 'might' use them, depending on the hoops)
> I would like to have a $5 electric bill every month (we are at about $75/ month average)
> Would like to have this installed by 2023, because I woould like to retire


I’d love to try out a wind turbine powered system made out of 55 gallon oil drums. Cut the drums in half lengthwise making two vertical cups. Attach them to a vertical axel so half of the cups are always facing into the wind As it spins.


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## Gary in ohio (May 11, 2002)

If you get an electric bill now, then I doubt it will ever be $5, even if you use NO electricity and turn of the power at the breaker box, you bill will most likely be more than $5 from your provider. Take a look at your bill, its broken into two parts, The electric used and distribution cost. If you plan on staying on-grid, Your distribution cost will never change, only your usage would go down.

As for micro wind power, What are you calling micro wind power? that is typically 100-500watts of power. Thats not much power. This is all back to how much power do you use and how much can you generate. 

YOu need to step back, Determine how much power you use and need. Determine your locations solar and wind feasibility. 

Even if you go offgrid you $5/month I think is unrealistic, Solar is seldom cheaper than gird power is grid is already available. Also Lower month cost on solar usually means a radical change in how you use power. 

Please done be discouraged but if your just trying to replace the grid and save money your solution may not work.
Work through the numbers, Understand your power needs and generation capabilities. then determine if its going to be cost effective. SInce you appear to have some time before retiring, there may be changes in cost and technologies


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

You are grid-tied right now; any type of installation you do should also be grid-tied ... you'd be reducing your bill with any energy locally produced, if the utility company allows it. See what they want you to do, as a starting point ... maybe they would steer you to programs that might make sense for you, such as a battery wall that allows you to store electricity during low demand, and use it during high demand, thus shaving off peak costs.

The low-hanging fruit is solar, and depending on your level of expertise and diy-ness, you can do some research and jump right in, or you can find an installer and pay them to set you up. Either method would get you in touch with the folks and the numbers that let you know if it's been done in your area, is cost-effective, and would result in reducing your elec bill.

You might even be able to find those folks who are part of a program to "lease" your solar installation to you, if available in your area. I've never seen a similar lease program for wind ...

Every time I look into wind, it's chock full of problems ... snake oil salesmen, mechanical issues, a huge tower expense, special requirements to tie into my existing off-grid solar equipment, and so on. I've decided that, until I can put up a small installation all by myself (and the technology has to get to the point where it helps me do this), this isn't going anywhere.

Whereas, solar was a breeze (excuse the pun) ...


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

We were out of power last year due to fire danger. 5 days or so. 

We are on a prepay electric billing system. I paid like 25 bucks into it the day before they turned the power off.

5 days later the power comes on and I get a notice that our balance is empty. Seemed odd, as we had not been able to use any power, so I called them.

They told me that the distribution fees were still being charged, so my balance went down whether we used it or not. I was not a happy camper.

So even if you don't use any, you will still have a daily charge. Ours is more than the power.

Same reason city water is so much. Our local town is around 120 dollars a month, water only to start. All fees, except for 15-20 bucks in water.

Long way to make the point, that you probably won't save any real money and will probably spend more after buying all the equipment.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

If you want t get off grid to save the world, you won't and there's no sense talking further because we can't discuss your religion to any benefit.

There are only two reasons to go off grid--(1) you will be located so far off grid that the cost of connecting exceeds the cost of installing wind &/or solar, and (2) for energy security (a consideration looking more important every day lately.)

Advocates of alternative power generation all brag about the pay-back time --"It will pay for itself in only 7 yrs!"--Maybe if you live in AZ, but it's more like 20 yrs if you live where the sun don't shine most days and juice is cheap--- and-- they always seem to forget the Lost Investment Potential of shelling out $20,000 up front. ..Those guys that spent $20Gs on solar 10 yrs ago now have saved $1500 a yr for the last three yrs, but that $20G would now be worth about $50Gs had they stayed on grid and put the money in the Dow.

In order to make alt energy workable, you usually have to conserve quite a bit-- a good idea for everyone anyway-- but if you stay on grid and do all that conserving, your bill will be low and you'll still have the convenience of running an electric rototiller or circular saw whenever you want to (maybe).


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

I love wind power and have a mix of wind and solar for my off grid place but if I was still grid tied I would not consider it simply because it would involve a lot more paperwork, towers and maintainance than solar. There is a lot of discussion about wind turbines even small ones killing birds and bats so expect more environmental regulation on them.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

May be of interest--Reinventing the Small Wind Turbine - LOW-TECH MAGAZINE (lowtechmagazine.com) 

Where you're located makes a big difference. If you're on top of a ridge with good wind, maybe it'll work...If you're in a forest with less wind, you will need a tall tower and then there's problems with access for maintenance (blades break; bearings run dry).

Another alternative-- Raise hogs or cattle, save the manure to generate methane and use that to run an engine--That avoids the problems of intermittency & high cost of solar or wind generation. Create Electricity from Manure | MOTHER EARTH NEWS 

Question: if you can't afford $75/m in retirement for grid power, how will you afford $10-20,000+ to install wind or solar?


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

doc- said:


> Another alternative-- Raise hogs or cattle, save the manure to generate methane and use that to run an engine--That avoids the problems of intermittency & high cost of solar or wind generation. Create Electricity from Manure | MOTHER EARTH NEWS


It worked for Bartertown in _Beyond Thunderdome_. Just kidding, it never works in real life as well as it works in the movies.

The Franklin County Landfill in Ohio was supposed to sort out the methane produced from the landfill and use that to produce energy. Instead the methane is burned off at the landfill site.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Danaus29 said:


> It worked for Bartertown in _Beyond Thunderdome_. Just kidding, it never works in real life as well as it works in the movies.
> 
> The Franklin County Landfill in Ohio was supposed to sort out the methane produced from the landfill and use that to produce energy. Instead the methane is burned off at the landfill site.


Methane collection at a landfill is not cost effective-- too little ch4 produced per volume of your average garbage-- as opposed to manure collection where that ratio is very high...It's also somewhat dangerous-- almost 100 farm workers are killed in manure pits each year (by asphyxiation)-- a third of them being the fellow workers trying to rescue the original victim...Almost all of these incidents are on large operations, not your small homesteads.

All technologies have their problems. Personally, I'd rather have to occasionally tune an engine or clean a manure pit (gotta do that if you have livestock whether you collect the ch4 or not) than climb a 300 ft wind tower or mess with batteries or replace solar panels that blow away in a storm or avoid using power tools when I want to because the wind isn't blowing.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

- Got thinking about running an engine to charge a battery---

A full size car battery holds about 50 amp-hrs of juice, and it takes about an hour of driving to fully charge a flat one. When discharging the battery, you don't want to go below 50% in order to preserve battery life, so we''ll say the battery effectively holds 25 amp-hrs.

In numbers rounded off to the nearest power of 10-- a 10W LED light gives the same light as a 100W incandescent (for comparison)and uses ~1/10 amp so you could run that LED light for 250 hrs on one charge of the battery (or 10 LEDs for 25 hrs)

Here's a list of some common electric appliances and their amp usage Home Appliances Ratings | Electrical Safety First As you can see, many of them use less than 1/2 amp, so that single car battery charge could run each of them for 50-ish hours.

My point is, why not just hook up a second battery in your car for charging and use it in your house? Many of us use our cars at least a half hour/d, so we could get 3-5 battery charges per week with just incidental driving-- power that is otherwise going to waste.

A call to critics--What's wrong with this plan?


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

doc- said:


> - Got thinking about running an engine to charge a battery---
> 
> A full size car battery holds about 50 amp-hrs of juice, and it takes about an hour of driving to fully charge a flat one. When discharging the battery, you don't want to go below 50% in order to preserve battery life, so we''ll say the battery effectively holds 25 amp-hrs.
> 
> ...


Doc a lot of people out this way use a similar setup to your idea and it works well for small loads like led lighting like you suggested or occasional heavy loads. The drawbacks are you need to drive enough to keep the battery charged which around here a lot of people probably don't do. The second battery needs to be correctly installed or it will not charge quickly and it may even drain your start battery.This is what I have found to be a better way.


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