# Am I a prude?



## FCLady

Okay I sent 3 kids to public school. The youngest was 16 when we adopted twin girls that were 6 months old. We are homeschooling the twins after a lot of issues with the others in public school. So we've done both the public and homeschool thing.

The twins are now in third grade and doing fabulous in homeschool. We do several extra curricular things as well. We are all really liking doing the homeschool and all of us are having fun. I can really see the difference in the twin's attitude and behavior from that of the kids who went to public school.

This issue really took me by surprise. We are pretty active in our church and I was just "expected" to enroll my girls in a new youth program at the church. Anyway even after church and exposure to public schooled kids I have to correct and discuss why "we" don't act and talk like "that". I'm just not sure that I want to keeping exposing them to what we consider unacceptable behaviors week after week. Am I just being a prude? I really like how much more peaceful the house is especially since we are pushing our 60s this time around...

Comments and suggestions are appreciated.


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## NEfarmgirl

No you are not a prude. Society has just learned to accept unacceptable behavior; things are very different then from even 20 years ago. We removed our oldest from public school to get him away from the abuse he endured from other kids and adults who didn't care. They can't really do anything to kids that act out at school anymore. We started fostering and had gotten a couple kiddos that were not socialized and were isolated for the first years of their lives. We were asked to put them in daycare to socialize them and we did. After we adopted them we kept the oldest in a preschool/daycare program. He overheard an older kiddo say something on the playground and decided to repeat it to his teacher one day. They did not take kindly to being told he had something to kill her with even though he had no idea what it meant. This was a program ran in a church; it was worse in a normal center. He is now home being homeschooled since we don't need that kind of socialization. I totally understand what you are saying. 

I really don't have any suggestions besides trying to find a homeschool group that you can join. We have a few groups in our area that are actually a very good influence on our kids because the parent are all like-minded. Don't let other people's opinions make you feel like you are not doing the best for your children either. You know what they need best.


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## Laura Zone 5

I homeschooled, and I did not allow the kids in youth group.
Youth group (at my church) was unstructured and 'fun' driven; a lot of inappropriate language and behavior.

The kids and I volunteered by cooking the meal on Wed nights, and I went to wed night Bible study. The kids sat out side the class room (there was a couch, chair and table) and they worked on their school work (usually reading or writing). They were 13, 12 and 10. 

I was asked many times why they were not in youth group, and I said, as many times: They are just fine working on their school work. 

We finally quit going to that church because the enormous pressure we (the kids and I) felt to 'join' youth group. THEY were not interested, I was not interested, and no one would respect our decision.

It's not easy not going with the flow.


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## MichaelZ

You should not be expected to enroll your kids in anything that you do not fully approve of. No one should be pushing you to do this. Do what you know is right - you are the parents - that is your true expectation. And just because it is "youth group" does not necessarily mean the kids are learning what they should.

If you feel that you are getting grief for making this kind of decision, then you might want to consider moving on to another church.


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## beenaround

I don't think it's good to allow kids to be around kids that are inappropriate. Train them up right and with that foundation they will do well on their own around people who are not so grounded.

Our kids had other home schooled friends and we protected them from influences we thought were wrong in order to give them a childhood. Seems today kids are robbed of a childhood unencumbered by the stuff everyone knows makes life dirty. We knew someday they would see the world as it is, and they have, but they didn't see it from us. From us they got love. You have to know what love is and then isn't to understand it's importance. We gave them love, they see the other now that they are older. They handle it well I think and will give their kids what they had, I hope.

I think it needs said even though it should be obvious. The church is pretty much the only group that calls in the worst in society, that's kids too. Keep that in mind and an eye on your children. It's just reality.


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## farmrbrown

Proverbs 22:6King James Version (KJV)

6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.


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## FCLady

Thanks for the encouragement. Odd that the homeschool parents I speak to understand exactly what I'm saying. Other parents don't. Even the pastor of our church doesn't get why I am not interested.


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## Shin

You're doing the right thing by keeping them from bad company. It's absolutely necessary.


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## gibbsgirl

Church has ironically been one of the more difficult and awkward places for us with this issue.

We're Episcopal and do not like any children's classes or activities that happened during the regular services.

We just don't like what we see. Kids expect snacks and games and treats and play INSTEAD of services. So our kids just stayed with us and learned to sit through church from the time they were wee ones.

We've seen too many other people's kids grow up and leave the church because they outgrew Sunday school or youth group and had no use for just regular plain old church. Also, many people bring games, toys, snacks, etc into the services for their kids if they bring them when children's classes are not happening. We don't allow them that.

It's helped them develop patience and learn what we value about church so they hopefully won't outgrow it so easily as we've seen happen to others.

But, its been very awkward because we don't want to hurt other folks feelings or be critical of them. We just want to do it our way for our family.

If we have time, and there's kid stuff outside of services, w'vee let them do that.

There is a big impact sometimes when you get involved in groups whether church, sports, hobbies, co-ops, 4h, etc. Just figure out whether yall fit somewhere or not, and if not, just move on if it's too big of a negative.


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## cfuhrer

Your house.
Your rules.


'nuff said.


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## Laura Zone 5

FCLady said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. Odd that the homeschool parents I speak to understand exactly what I'm saying. Other parents don't. Even the pastor of our church doesn't get why I am not interested.


A word of advice/warning:

DO NOT try to explain yourself.
No matter WHAT words you use, how eloquent you speak, how true your words are, how much sugar you coat with............

The one you are trying to explain your reasons too WILL WILL WILL WILL not hear what you are saying they will hear "Oh so she thinks she's better than _____". 

Just say "not gonna happen" drop the mic and walk away.
The more you try to explain the more 'ammo' you give away to be used against you.


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## Oldshep

Since we do not know what language or behavior caused such a fuss, we do not know whether the OP is or isn't a "prude". I think homeschooling is great, but I also believe you need to take steps to have your children exposed to the outside world and that includes words, behaviors, and ideas that you personally may not approve of. Otherwise you run the risk of sheltering and isolating those children and their transition into the outside world ( which they will have to make at some point ) will be that much tougher.


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## SLFarmMI

Oldshep said:


> Since we do not know what language or behavior caused such a fuss, we do not know whether the OP is or isn't a "prude". I think homeschooling is great, but I also believe you need to take steps to have your children exposed to the outside world and that includes words, behaviors, and ideas that you personally may not approve of. Otherwise you run the risk of sheltering and isolating those children and their transition into the outside world ( which they will have to make at some point ) will be that much tougher.


I agree with Oldshep. I was one of those super sheltered kids. (Amish girls have more exposure to the outside world than I did.) When I left home to go to college, it was like I'd been dropped off on Mars. I did not handle the transition well to say the least. It would have been a lot easier if I had had a bit more exposure to the outside world like Oldshep mentioned in his post.


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## NEfarmgirl

I do not know about the OP, but our kids are still involved with the community and activities so they get a dose of outside world reality. They are now able to see what good behavior and bad behavior is and understand the difference. Our kids play at the park with other kids, go to church with other kids, and are involved with age appropriate activities like scouts. Our kids are also involved in social groups that allow them to be around other kids their age.

Not long ago our service at church was interesting. The pastor looked out over everyone and announced that his church was full of misfits and it was. The congregation is made up of people that have come from other churches who felt shunned or forced to do things that they did not want to do. It is an amazing group of people and we have not once felt forced to participate in anything.


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## FCLady

OLDSHOP that is EXACTLY my roller coaster ride. But at the 3rd grade level, 8 years old, how much exposure is too much for them and me. I do want them to understand that we are raising them different. They already feel that because they are adopted, because we are older parents, (we have grandchildren older than they are), because we homestead, because we don't have cell phone, because we homeschool etc.etc. 

We are self-employed and work from our home. They are exposed to lots of people here, even Amish who always have some kids with them. Our girls always ask if they can go play with the kids while mom "talks" with the parents. They take archery classes, horseback riding classes and play seasonal soccer. All have homeschooled kids and public schooled kids. Seems like those are more structured classes than the youth group tho.


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## BigHenTinyBrain

It sounds like your twins are exposed to all sorts of people without this youth group. So they are already benefitting from access to many kinds of behavior, they are not shut in a bubble. If this youth group is causing a problem, eliminate it. 
If it was not a church activity would you be feeling the same worries about removing them? Are you mostly concerned about the pressure you feel from others in the congregation? Remember- these people are likely the parents of the kids who are demonstrating such unpleasant behavior for your kids... It sounds like you'd be much happier (and the twins probably would be, too) without this specific youth group.


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## light rain

FCLady, what do your grown children think on this matter?

I agree that when kids go into a group they are susceptible to ideals and behavior that may be diametrically opposed to their family's beliefs. Sometimes they are even at risk for violence. 

You would think with a church group the adults would guide/enforce a minimum standard of behavior but this is often not the case. Churches and parents fear if they set down rules that the kids will choose to associate elsewhere. Then the adult authority says we won't correct them for fear we may lose them. In reality they have already "lost" them with this knuckling under. 

I hope you find a church group that cares enough about the children to praise them when their doing good and correct them when they are doing wrong. 

As they get older the opportunity to do more volunteer work in your community with you or your husband doing it with them by their side may give them the chance to experience more interaction with the world in a climate of safety because of your involvement. They will definitely need this exposure before going to college or into the military. Otherwise it is like someone jumping into deep pool without knowing how to swim...


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## MichaelZ

With regard to "social skills" and fitting in, it is much like learning to drive. You don't take your new 16 year old driver to drive on the freeway at rush hour. You take them on a vacant road. They get used to it, and then, when they know all the correct driving rules and have the hang of it, you get them on that freeway. Our 13 year old just about took a dark turn, thanks to an online secular academy with all sorts of bad influences, both from classmates, curriculum, and the internet she would sneak onto at all times. She was angry or upset all the time (since she was behind all the time), and was taking on values widely different than she previously had. Now she is back in a solid curriculum that does not require internet, restricted internet after school, and she even has one day of planned activities with other kids at the charter school. What a difference! She is by no means sheltered, in fact less sheltered, but the influences that she receives are far different. By the time our youngest daughter is 16, she will have most adult privileges (like her sister), and all adult privileges when she is 18. 

This is what we are talking about here. It is not about whether or not to be in youth group or not, it is this particular group.


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## Laura Zone 5

I echo you Michael Z.

My 3 were exposed to the world, kids their age, etc.
In small doses......
We talked alot.
My son did travel hockey and we would talk about how timmy's dad would get wasted drunk and leave timmy in his room(his own hotel room) w/ his own debit card, cell phone, and access to room service (at age 9) and on the surface, that looks really cool to have all those things at 9, but really what timmy needed was to spend that time w/ his dad. Not watching him stumble into his adjoining room at 3 am wasted. Again.We talked about how this would effect timmy all his life.

My boy didn't spend the night w/ timmy, because I didn't want him to think drinking / drunkenness was OK. He was friends w/ timmy, and he learned empathy from watching timmy grow up w/ a drunk dad, instead of having a normal dad. Not envious of all the cool things, and cool freedom timmy had.

Today, by the Grace of God, my boy is in college, playing hockey, working a job, making good decisions.
Timmy? Been in an out of trouble, made it thru college by the skin of his teeth (and daddy's money) and is now working in the world to make enough money to drink himself silly, every, single, day.

That's just a snap shot of the lessons I could teach, when *I* spent 40 hours a week with my kids, instead of cutting them loose 40 hours a week w/ 'teachers and peers'.

I think that's what the OP is talking about......

And I highly discourage doing any more than asking the opinion of older children.
Ultimately, this is 100% your decision, regaurdless if ANYONE one else likes it.


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## Danaus29

Laura Zone 10 said:


> A word of advice/warning:
> 
> DO NOT try to explain yourself.
> No matter WHAT words you use, how eloquent you speak, how true your words are, how much sugar you coat with............
> 
> The one you are trying to explain your reasons too WILL WILL WILL WILL not hear what you are saying they will hear "Oh so she thinks she's better than _____".
> 
> Just say "not gonna happen" drop the mic and walk away.
> The more you try to explain the more 'ammo' you give away to be used against you.


I wish I could "like" this twice. You know the Miranda rights say "anything you may be used against you". But I have found that in most cases "everything you say WILL be twisted and used against you".


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## FCLady

light rain. My youngest of the oldest kids agrees with me 100%. She's the closest to our situation. My DH and I pretty much have agreed not to send them to the youth group. I guess I sometimes I want to make sure I'm not being over protective - just protective


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## light rain

While we all can give our opinion and hope it is helpful, in the end it is totally you and your husband's decision. Pray for guidance and wisdom and do what you two think is best for your family.


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## motherhenshow

Sounds to me like you are doing a great job. I think the girls are blessed to be in a home that recognizes that a bad influence is just that-bad.


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## MCJam

Only YOU know YOUR kids, and only YOU can make the best decision for Them! Go with your convictions. You will never please other people, nor should you make decisions based on what others think. Be on your knees before your God and do the best you can. Yes, you will make mistakes, but you have to be able to look yourself in the mirror and know that you did your best. 

We also do not do youth groups. Yes my children are sheltered and rightly so. I want them to be immersed in love, kindness and service. I want them to be disgusted by much of what they see in the world when they are mature enough to have discernment. I want them to have discernment. My husband and I have 5 homeschooled children. The oldest two are now young adults, and going out into the world as confident adults, with their own convictions, which the tides of fashion, fad and culture will not sway. They are our pride and joy, and we have no regrets, Nor do they. They thank us for the care we gave and the limitations we placed on them while young. Now there is no fear of them going astray.
Again:
Train them up in the way they should go.........

Swimming against the tide is difficult at times, but much less difficult than trying to pick up pieces and wonder where you went wrong and why the children are going astray.

God Bless you!


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## Tsrwivey

We went through the exact same problems as the OP & youth groups are a major point of contention for many homeschoolers. The church should be a place you feel supported in your efforts to raise godly children. Some churches don't have youth groups, instead the focus is on families learning, worshipping & fellowshipping together. They are generally full of hsers. Ask some other hsers in your area if they know of one. Perhaps a church like that may be a better fit for your family?


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## Rectifier

Reading this thread makes me realize my viewpoint will likely be unpopular in this thread as it's pretty much the opposite of all presented. However I hope you will hear me out. I am concerned about the ability of children/youth who are sheltered to be successful in society.

I'm 30 years old and usually a rough and tough tradesman type. I'm also a father to a baby girl. In the appropriate situations I don't mince my words, I cuss and swear, bluster and swagger, call people's bluffs and play heavy metal music too loud. Unless I'm around older folks and godly types, and then I can easily turn that construction site persona off just like a switch. At home I am a kind and loving husband and hardworking rancher. But that's a choice I can make after having been exposed to both extremes.

That's the way the world is these days. It's dog eat dog and you don't want your child to be the smaller dog. A person needs to be capable of operating in situations that involve rough language and behaviour so that they can be flexible in different situations. Apprentices are picked on to no end and they need to be tough to make it as the trades are where the good jobs are these days. I always felt pretty sorry for the gentle souls who cowered under the yelling of the foreman and ended up carrying loads of pipe all day. 

My little girl is going to grow up rough and tough, and you know why? When I went to college, there were plenty of inexperienced, sheltered girls there looking for new experiences. They were easy prey for a party animal like my younger self. Don't kid yourself of what happens after the good little girls grow up and leave home. I've been there first hand and seen the results.

The girls who grew up with bad company had the confidence and experience to recognize and stay out of trouble, and they get to gain that experience while still being able to rely on the support of their parents. Otherwise, they are out there all alone trying to figure out the world.

Anyways I have always been one of those bad influence types but found myself nothing but success in life. I'm not a burnout, a drunk or an addict. I have a beautiful wife of 7 years, a profitable farm and a lovely daughter. 

Just another viewpoint from a guy who grew up in both the rural country and the big city.


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## light rain

Rectifier, not only, by your own words, you saw the results, you formed the results. :hrm: A lot of the young women who grew up in bad company had no clue what their options were in situations. They repeated what they learned in their environment. I remember one beautiful, intelligent young woman who died before 25. She choked on her own vomit. 

Children need to be educated about people who can go from sweet and supportive to deceiving and dishonest in 5 seconds flat, usually to further their own desires. But to say that a good education comes from growing up in a rough, chaotic household to me is not what I have experienced in my 60 plus years of life...

I do think that your opinion is valued and appreciated because it gives another view of the situation.


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## Bret

You are the expert for these two. Good work. What a gift.


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## beenaround

Laura Zone 10 said:


> A word of advice/warning:
> 
> DO NOT try to explain yourself.
> No matter WHAT words you use, how eloquent you speak, how true your words are, how much sugar you coat with............
> 
> The one you are trying to explain your reasons too WILL WILL WILL WILL not hear what you are saying they will hear "Oh so she thinks she's better than _____".
> 
> Just say "not gonna happen" drop the mic and walk away.
> The more you try to explain the more 'ammo' you give away to be used against you.


The bible is a book of simple phrases. As I've read it and history it became apparent to me the 2 go hand in hand. The one simply says X and the other tells why it was said.

The older I get the more I trust those simple phrases.

"Let your yes be a yes and your no be a no". History also says doing this will not be tolerated for long. Forced submission is around the corner.


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## Rectifier

light rain said:


> ...to say that a good education comes from growing up in a rough, chaotic household...


I'm actually not in favour of the household itself being rough and chaotic. That tends to result in people who grow up to become drunks, abusers etc. I grew up in a stable and loving home, and ran with a wild and "bad" crowd at and after school much like the OP fears. My parents allowed this as long as I never got into any "real trouble" i.e. drugs, crime, pregnant girlfriends. I never did get into any of that sort of trouble, and I attribute that to being allowed to blow off enough steam while learning where to draw the line. 

I believe home should be a sanctuary where the kids can come home from whatever trouble they have been getting into and know their parents are there to support them. As I mentioned, I believe exposure to both sides of the spectrum is essential to growing up well balanced. 


Cases like the young woman you mentioned are all too common. I was taught about responsible drinking by my father in a more European manner, rather than the hard line approach often taken in America. As such I was disgusted by the irresponsible drinking, near deaths and projectile vomiting of some of my 19 year old college peers who got to purchase alcohol for the first time. It's no different from giving a boy a race car to learn to drive - an accident waiting to happen.


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## beenaround

I was the other view, a merchant marine and a biker. Grew up catholic so I was whatever you want to call it.

When I was around 30 I came to a cross roads. More than 1 person asked me if I knew Jesus, another biker did so it wasn't from church people.

I was alone thinking about it. Came to me that I didn't really, who does. Sitting there, in honesty I said, I don't know him, but I want to. From that day things changed.

I doubt anyone here cursed as much as a bunch of men on a merchant ship did. Today I look upon cursing as a weakness, a tell of a persons character. Why? because I lived it. My kids know I could curse like a sailor, but don't. They know they're not missing anything, BECAUSE there is no escaping it, except for dad.

Be an example, you might be the only one they know.


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## Laura Zone 5

I wish there were more men like you in this world.
It's men like you that will turn this ship around.


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## TheKingsTable

I know this thread is a little old, but...

I don't have kids so no homeschooling here. Kind of randomly clicked on this thread, but I'm glad I did. You all have given me a new perspective. My husband is a youth pastor, and I have seen/heard more than I ever expected to in a church. I know all about the "rough" youth group, and yet it never crossed my mind that there would be proactive parents who would keep their kids from the group. I guess I haven't had to think about it since I have no kids and most of our youth come without church-going parents. But for future scenarios that may arise, your opinions have helped me. I hope I show understanding and compassion if I face such a situation, rather than making a parent feel defensive or awkward.


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