# Would (or could) you forgive a cheating partner?



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I know that Mr. Pixie has never cheated, the man is a horrible liar and guilt would eat him alive. Plus his organizational skills just aren't up to any level of sneakery. 

I may be able to forgive (but not forget) one indiscretion, maybe. But certainly not a serial cheater. An affair is such a major trust violation, and the trust that Mr. Pixie and have together is crucial. 

Could you forgive an affair?


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Probably not


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## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)

This is only an issue for those who believe in monotony .... errr .. monogamy.


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Irish Pixie said:


> I know that Mr. Pixie has never cheated, the man is a horrible liar and guilt would eat him alive. Plus his organizational skills just aren't up to any level of sneakery.
> 
> I may be able to forgive (but not forget) one indiscretion, maybe. But certainly not a serial cheater. An affair is such a major trust violation, and the trust that Mr. Pixie and have together is crucial.
> 
> ...


Many times.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Could forgive and have.
Harder to forget than forgive.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

There are some circumstances I could forgive, some not. It really depends on how they treat you during the cheating and afterward. Do they really regret it and still loved you through it or were you treated badly and they are just waiting for a chance to do it again or use it to hurt you.

I won't be a second , third or fourth choice. I won't be a "until" or "good enough for now".


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## Micheal (Jan 28, 2009)

Sure I would "forgive" ...... right after I put her suitcase outside the door.....

As a side note: Those that I know that have "cheated" on their spouse have no feelings of guilt. Or if'n they do it's only after being caught.....


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

Micheal said:


> Sure I would "forgive" ...... right after I put her suitcase outside the door.....
> 
> As a side note: Those that I know that have "cheated" on their spouse have no feelings of guilt. Or if'n they do it's only after being caught.....


When i was young it mattered a lot. The older i got the less it mattered.  She pasted away a few years back. Miss her.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

First off define cheat
Second define affair.
I think most guys don’t even notice most woman’s cheating even when it’s done hundreds of times in front of them.
I define cheating as going out side the relationship for needs without consent.
Unfair negotiation tactics.
For instance a woman who reads a romance novel INSTEAD of offering her husband the sex he wants. ( short circuited by lower cost negotiation)
Or will not offer sex no matter what the husband offers (non negotiation)


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> First off define cheat
> Second define affair.
> I think most guys don’t even notice most woman’s cheating even when it’s done hundreds of times in front of them.
> I define cheating as going out side the relationship for needs without consent.
> ...


You are hilarious. A romance novel stokes the fire and ends up with sex. Even better if you read the good parts outloud together.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> You are hilarious. A romance novel stokes the fire and ends up with sex. Even better if you read the good parts outloud together.


 But according to my definition that wouldn’t be cheating would it ?
Notice I even capitalized the word instead !


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> First off define cheat
> Second define affair.
> I think most guys don’t even notice most woman’s cheating even when it’s done hundreds of times in front of them.
> I define cheating as going out side the relationship for needs without consent.
> ...


A physical or emotional relationship that is purposely concealed from your partner. 

There is no negotiation for sex in our relationship, we either want it or we don't. No games. Either one of us is fully able to say no, and that's the way it should be.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Micheal said:


> Sure I would "forgive" ...... right after I put her suitcase outside the door.....
> 
> As a side note: Those that I know that have "cheated" on their spouse have no feelings of guilt. Or if'n they do it's only after being caught.....


Mr. Pixie is catholic, he says he was born and bred to feel guilt over everything.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> A physical or emotional relationship that is purposely concealed from your partner.
> 
> There is no negotiation for sex in our relationship, we either want it or we don't. No games. Either one of us is fully able to say no, and that's the way it should be.


I agree. If you have to negotiate for sex then you are not meeting your spouses need in ways that make them want to have sex with you.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

Nope,never! I take being faithful very serious and in my book there is NO excuse ever for cheating. I'd be done right there on the spot.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

I feel this strongly because i've gone through it twice and it tore my world apart.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> A physical or emotional relationship that is purposely concealed from your partner.
> 
> There is no negotiation for sex in our relationship, we either want it or we don't. No games. Either one of us is fully able to say no, and that's the way it should be.


 Your relationship is truly blessed to be perfectly balanced.
But not every relationship is that way. Some need more romance others more physical some more companionship.
I suspect that these imbalances factor into cheating.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Oregon1986 said:


> I feel this strongly because i've gone through it twice and it tore my world apart.


 My like for your post was actually a agreement not actually a like for cheating.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> A physical or emotional relationship that is purposely concealed from your partner.
> 
> There is no negotiation for sex in our relationship, we either want it or we don't. No games. Either one of us is fully able to say no, and that's the way it should be.


 Perhaps you are not a qualified experienced expert on cheating and failed relationships ?


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cornhusker said:


> Could forgive and have.
> Harder to forget than forgive.


I have a friend who said the same. Her and her husband sorted things out and initially, she felt that because she had forgiven, all would be well but the problems she had forgetting was making it difficult for them to rebuild their relationship until they went for counselling.

I have been cheated on and was unable to forget or forgive but in both cases, it was a symptom of an already unworkable relationship.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

No. Divorced my wife over it.
Once the trust is gone it's over.


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## HermitJohn (May 10, 2002)

painterswife said:


> You are hilarious. A romance novel stokes the fire and ends up with sex. Even better if you read the good parts outloud together.


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## tripletmom (Feb 4, 2005)

Nope, and don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I suspect the truth of if you would forgive won’t be known till after the fact.


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## montysky (Aug 21, 2006)

A fox never just steals one Chicken; he/she will be back for more. 

In time I could forgive, but I could never trust her or forget what she did. So we would part ways -- Now the guy she cheated with I would give him a beat-down his great grandkids would talk about some day.


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

I heard a friend say once, "If I ever cheated the last thing I would hear is...."How do you reload this thing...?""

geo


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

montysky said:


> A fox never just steals one Chicken; he/she will be back for more.
> 
> In time I could forgive, but I could never trust her or forget what she did. So we would part ways -- Now the guy she cheated with I would give him a beat-down his great grandkids would talk about some day.


Why would you beat the guy? He didn't cheat your wife did.


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## Grafton County Couple (Sep 20, 2018)

No.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Trust is the most important element in a relationship. Once it is gone it is almost impossible to get back. You may be able to live day to day deliberately forgetting what happened and even live forgiving but some shadow of distrust will always be there. Not to mention the terrible hurt.

I still wonder why anyone would bother having an affair with someone who is married/in a relationship and trust them. The simple reality is if they will do it with you they will do it to you.

Sexual infidelity is a huge cause of divorce but 25% of divorces are due to financial infidelity.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> Your relationship is truly blessed to be perfectly balanced.
> But not every relationship is that way. Some need more romance others more physical some more companionship.
> I suspect that these imbalances factor into cheating.


I agree. We will be married 37 years in November. It wasn't always perfect, but both of us have worked hard to keep the marriage together.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> Your relationship is truly blessed to be perfectly balanced.
> But not every relationship is that way. Some need more romance others more physical some more companionship.
> I suspect that these imbalances factor into cheating.


I doubt many relationships start this balanced, but over time partners that care move to a center balance.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I can't say 100% if I would be able to forgive. I've never been in that situation. We just celebrated 38 years of marriage. I've never worried about hubby straying and he hasn't worried about me. Has everything always been perfect? Nope, but we've both grown in our relationship AND as individuals. Fortunately, we've both continued to travel down the same road.


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

Yeah, cheating generally considered to be sexual, but how about talking bad about husband to your mom or friends. Or hiding money or spending, or sneaking around consulting lawyers about divorce?

I’ve heard gossip from my wife her friends tell her that make me cringe.

Cheating happens much more than we know. If you have to have complete trust, few marriages would last, with continuous anger and insecurity.

Healthier to assume spouse is cheating, and just live to support each other. You don’t own each other.

Forget trust


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

colourfastt said:


> This is only an issue for those who believe in monotony .... errr .. monogamy.


I've been thinking about this, and I'm fine with poly, open, etc. as long as everyone agrees. Honestly, I can't share a kitchen, so I'm certainly not going to share my man.


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## montysky (Aug 21, 2006)

coolrunnin said:


> Why would you beat the guy? He didn't cheat your wife did.


Easy both cheated, I was raised that a man never puts his hands on a woman, Not only that he bedded my wife ruin our four kids lives granted the kids are getting older (20-15) and turn the Family's life upset down. their is not a lot of people in Montana so he would know she was married and to be honest it would make me feel real good to kick his backside and I would leave her which would crush me. 

Side note their is zero chance that either of us would every cheat it is just a what if question.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I wonder how many people have cheated, or been cheated, and have no clue?

To say you KNOW your spouse has not cheated stretches reality to the breaking point.

Google says - *60 percent* of men and *40 percent* of women will have an affair

Unless all that cheating is done in the same marriage, that is high odds of cheating going on.


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## montysky (Aug 21, 2006)

DJ in WA said:


> Yeah, cheating generally considered to be sexual, but how about talking bad about husband to your mom or friends. Or hiding money or spending, or sneaking around consulting lawyers about divorce?
> 
> I’ve heard gossip from my wife her friends tell her that make me cringe.
> 
> ...


without trust you have nothing,


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I wonder how many people have cheated, or been cheated, and have no clue?
> 
> To say you KNOW your spouse has not cheated stretches reality to the breaking point.
> 
> ...


Which one of you have cheated?

I *know* I haven't, and I'm 99.9% certain Mr. Pixie hasn't. In fact, I'll say *I'M* more likely to cheat than he is, and I know I won't.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

montysky said:


> A fox never just steals one Chicken; he/she will be back for more.
> 
> In time I could forgive, but I could never trust her or forget what she did. So we would part ways -- Now the guy she cheated with I would give him a beat-down his great grandkids would talk about some day.





montysky said:


> Easy both cheated, I was raised that a man never puts his hands on a woman, Not only that he bedded my wife ruin our four kids lives granted the kids are getting older (20-15) and turn the Family's life upset down. their is not a lot of people in Montana so he would know she was married and to be honest it would make me feel real good to kick his backside and I would leave her which would crush me.
> 
> Side note their is zero chance that either of us would every cheat it is just a what if question.


Hmm, how do I say this politely. Wife can find them and bed them quicker than you can get bailed out of jail. Not to mention the rest of the associated time and cost involved in teaching the other guy a lesson. Who do you think is going to win that race ? Hard to take care of the rest of your family from jail. The man is not the problem. The woman is. Of course that works both ways. 

Is a cheating partner really worth the hassle of jail, and all of the associated cost. Best to just send em down the road.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

A few weeks after my wife started her first nursing job, she mentioned that one of the doctors was a flirt and was always hitting on the nurses. I asked if he had hit on her, and she said, "Just once". I replied, "Well if you run off with him, have him buy you a ranch in Montana". She asked, "Why in Montana". I said, "Because I have always wanted to work on a ranch in Montana". Every few years I ask her, "When are we moving to Montana". No luck yet.


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## jen32245 (Jun 29, 2019)

hiddensprings said:


> I can't say 100% if I would be able to forgive. I've never been in that situation. We just celebrated 38 years of marriage. I've never worried about hubby straying and he hasn't worried about me. Has everything always been perfect? Nope, but we've both grown in our relationship AND as individuals. Fortunately, we've both continued to travel down the same road.


I forgave my hubby We were very young and I just had our first son. It broke my heart, but we worked thru it and have been together for 25 year's. We have so much in common. It is what it is. You never forget.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

Wouldn't be able to forgive or forget, he'd be out the door.


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## kalmara (Aug 21, 2011)

no


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

I am in control of me. I am not in control of others. If I align with someone and somehow, some day, their alliances go against that which I uphold then I am allowed to walk away - I am not allowed to tell the other to change.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Shine said:


> I am in control of me. I am not in control of others. If I align with someone and somehow, some day, their alliances go against that which I uphold then I am allowed to walk away - I am not allowed to tell the other to change.


Bingo


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Shine said:


> I am in control of me. I am not in control of others. If I align with someone and somehow, some day, their alliances go against that which I uphold then I am allowed to walk away - I am not allowed to tell the other to change.


Of course, it's not like marriage is a life sentence. Would you cheat, or walk away?


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Been there and done that. I walked out ! It only cost $175 and some hurt feelings...


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Confession is never a good thing. I've never heard of a case where a person confessed, hoping to be forgiven, that ended well. Any thing you do, expect to be caught.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

haypoint said:


> Confession is never a good thing. I've never heard of a case where a person confessed, hoping to be forgiven, that ended well. Any thing you do, expect to be caught.


First, I couldn't betray that trust. Second, I rarely lie, and if I do, it slowly drives me insane. And then I confess. It's just how I am.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

Shine said:


> I am in control of me. I am not in control of others. If I align with someone and somehow, some day, their alliances go against that which I uphold then I am allowed to walk away - I am not allowed to tell the other to change.


The marriage bedroom is to be pure. The couple are to be one and none other and to live peacefully together. They should set boundaries for what each consider to be infidelity. Betrayal is a breach of trust and should not be ignored or condoned. Otherwise it slowly erodes away the oneness.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

elevenpoint said:


> No. Divorced my wife over it.
> Once the trust is gone it's over.


I agree,if I can't trust the person i'm with than there is no point on continuing


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

The worst is when you get cheated on and you have no clue it's been going on till way to late. Nothing worse than having your heart broken and feeling like an idiot. My daughters father and I had been together almost 5 years when he left me for his now wife. Yeah he wasn't working late


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

You don't believe that some relationships can be saved? Sometimes people do make mistakes. I know that most are not redeemable. I never say never because I know people that came out the other side and made it.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

painterswife said:


> You don't believe that some relationships can be saved? Sometimes people do make mistakes. I know that most are not redeemable. I never say never because I know people that came out the other side and made it.


I think every relationship is different and it all depends on the individuals.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I honestly don't think that one can say what they'd do in any situation, until it's happened. I know couples who's marriages have failed because of cheating, I know others who viewed the infidelity as a symptom, found help and their marriages are stronger now than ever before. I know a woman, who's looked the other way for 40 years of cheating because she's not overly interested in the sexual aspect of their marriage but loves her husband and family dearly, has an illness that hasn't allowed her to work in many years, leaving her somewhat financially dependent and she's generally happy with her life. 

I know another who lived many years knowing her husband had another woman. Their relationship worked for them and after she died, he married the second woman, with his wife's blessing. 

I chose to send my spouse packing because I felt, he had already distanced himself from the relationship. I'd like to believe that would never happen to me again but I agree with Shine. I can only control my actions. 

I'd never look down on someone who chose to stay together and work on their relationship, nor would I tell someone else how they should handle difficulties in their relationships and I'm not sure that someone who hasn't dealt with it can actually know how they will handle the situation, if it arises.


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## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Of course, it's not like marriage is a life sentence. Would you cheat, or walk away?


Sorry, cheating on a loved one is not in my makeup...


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

I don't think we really know what we would do till the time came. depends on the person. if they love enough to forgive or not. I'd like to think I would if it was only the one time. god I don't know what I would do now if I found out my husband had cheated. not much I could do . likely flush his ashes down the toilet. ~Georgia


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

painterswife said:


> You don't believe that some relationships can be saved? Sometimes people do make mistakes. I know that most are not redeemable. I never say never because I know people that came out the other side and made it.


Cheating is not a mistake. Cheating is a choice. 

I would not be able to forgive and forget. The relationship would be over.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

SLFarmMI said:


> Cheating is not a mistake. Cheating is a choice.
> 
> I would not be able to forgive and forget. The relationship would be over.


 Really you catch him one time with a playboy magazine and they’re out the door number to return? 
Or does it take more like a trip to the strip club or perhaps a strip club and a lap dance ?
question where are the limits ?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I think those that said, you don't know what you'll do until it happens are correct.
It's the one thing that would be the ultimate test for my marriage. Having been cheated on before, it was the main reason I didn't get married when I was younger. At least when I found out, a divorce wasn't necessary to part ways.

If forgiveness was asked for, I'd like to _*think*_ I could do it, but................I can't be certain.
Besides the obvious hurt and trust issues it brings, there's also the huge lack of respect that has to be dealt with and overcome in order TO forgive, IMO.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

It can start out so innocently. A group of co-workers going to lunch. One LOL's and it catches another's attention. Next thing, them two... they're going to lunch together, alone. Bam, and there it is. 

Forgiveness is a process and even tho a couple works thru the stages of it, it still can rear it's ugly head even years later. The feelings can be so deep and painful that for a lot of people it's just best to part ways, in my opinion.

It's really sad for everyone, especially the children.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

HDRider said:


> I wonder how many people have cheated, or been cheated, and have no clue?
> 
> To say you KNOW your spouse has not cheated stretches reality to the breaking point.
> 
> ...


Ahhh yes, all knowing google.



AmericanStand said:


> Really you catch him one time with a playboy magazine and they’re out the door number to return?
> Or does it take more like a trip to the strip club or perhaps a strip club and a lap dance ?
> question where are the limits ?


A magazine and a strip club are not the same as physical cheating, IMO.

And people's limits in their relationships are a private matter.

I don't know what I'd do, I hope I don't ever have to figure it out. I'd be heartbroken.


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

AmericanStand said:


> Really you catch him one time with a playboy magazine and they’re out the door number to return?
> Or does it take more like a trip to the strip club or perhaps a strip club and a lap dance ?
> question where are the limits ?


The point was, regardless of how you personally define cheating, it is not a mistake. Cheating is a choice that one makes. Mistakes are things like using the wrong fork or taking the wrong off ramp.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Cheating can be both a mistake and a choice.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> Ahhh yes, *all knowing* *google*.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually it was Psychology Today


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## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

painterswife said:


> Cheating can be both a mistake and a choice.


Sorry, not buying that. How do you accidentally get naked with someone else? Oops, I tripped, my pants fell down, my genitalia fell out and rubbed up on someone?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> Ahhh yes, all knowing google.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Lol I take it you haven’t spent a lot of time in strip clubs? 
I think cheating needs to be defined that’s why it was the first question I asked in the beginning of the thread 
I’ve met more than one woman that would throw her husband out of the house if she caught him with a play boy magazine .
In some places a lap dance can include minor intercourse 
Is it just physical cheating that qualifies in this thread? Would that be intercourse or just cuddling and holding hands and things qualify?

I totally agree with you that peoples limits in their relationships are a personal thing but that is the very question that is asked in this thread .
You don’t have to participate in this thread but if you do you should be willing to talk about the subject.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

SLFarmMI said:


> Sorry, not buying that. How do you accidentally get naked with someone else? Oops, I tripped, my pants fell down, my genitalia fell out and rubbed up on someone?


Large amounts of alcohol?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

HDRider said:


> Actually it was Psychology Today


 Now that’s a scary magazine


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

SLFarmMI said:


> Sorry, not buying that. How do you accidentally get naked with someone else? Oops, I tripped, my pants fell down, my genitalia fell out and rubbed up on someone?


 Do you realize you’re arguing against yourself? That’s not with the person you quoted said .
PW said mistake , A mistake it’s not the same as an accident Mistake implies thought and choice that were incorrect an accident implies something that was not thought out that happened without direction.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

My first reaction to both questions was no.
I do think you have to define cheating within your relationship though.
What I might see as no big deal, would be different for another person.


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## Oregon1986 (Apr 25, 2017)

doozie said:


> My first reaction to both questions was no.
> I do think you have to define cheating within your relationship though.
> What I might see as no big deal, would be different for another person.


very true. I also believe in the beginning of any relationship, people need to communicate and define what they see cheating as.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

In legal terms what we have here is a noncompetitive sole source supplier contract .
In the past the courts have ruled that if the supplier refuses to supply or raises prices beyond acceptable limits the other party is not compelled to honor the sole source part of the contract .


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> You don’t have to participate in this thread but if you do you should be willing to talk about the subject.


I don't think it's up to individuals to define who can participate and under what parameters others can participate. If you have concerns about another member's participation, feel free to report and mods are capable of making those decisons.


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## CKelly78z (Jul 16, 2017)

My wife, and I have been very lucky for the last 32 years. Early on, we had a really active sex life, and tried everything with each other, and enjoyed it all. With my multiple health issues, and her fibromyalgia that created a far diminished drive, we can love each other without having to prove it daily.

I have certainly had my chances with other women, but knew better, and am now so glad I didn't pursue them. Regardless of what anyone says, it doesn't happen unless BOTH partners are willing, and open to someone new. I have had pretty co-workers offer themselves up in as many words. As said before in this thread, it doesn't happen by accident, and once it does happen, it is so much easier the second, and third times.

This is where TRUST is lost, and NO, I don't think I could get over someone cheating on me.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wr said:


> I don't think it's up to individuals to define who can participate and under what parameters others can participate. If you have concerns about another member's participation, feel free to report and mods are capable of making those decisons.


Does that addressed to me or to wood cutters daughter? It was wood cutters daughter that made the statement “And people's limits in their relationships are a private matter “
So are you saying you want the posters here to not reply to the subjects in the thread?
And what about the notice to speed reporters that has been posted? I thought we weren’t supposed to bring every little thing to the mods I think we’re going to need some guidance here .


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I do think the whole question of a response to infidelity depends on the structure of your relationship as well as very different social and moral ideas about sex.

My Swiss godparents were married for nearly 50 years and they adored each other. I admit I was quite surprised when I learned that God papa had a mistress. I was terribly worried that finding this out would be very upsetting for God mama and I admit I was angry with God papa. 

One day we were in town and we saw a friend of theirs who was walking with a lovely young woman. I wanted to say hello but was grabbed by the arm and frog marched away. God papa said that this was not the time to speak to him as he was with his mistress. I looked at God mama thinking that this was awful to say in front of her in case it raised suspicions but she just continued walking arm in arm with God papa. A little while on she said to Godpapa "Ours is much prettier".

Different ways all over the world.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

AmericanStand said:


> Does that addressed to me or to wood cutters daughter? It was wood cutters daughter that made the statement “And people's limits in their relationships are a private matter “
> So are you saying you want the posters here to not reply to the subjects in the thread?
> And what about the notice to speed reporters that has been posted? I thought we weren’t supposed to bring every little thing to the mods I think we’re going to need some guidance here .


I was responding to your advice to another member that they didn't need to respond to the thread. The choice to respond is up to the individual member or mod decisions and comments like that have a way of making members feel unwelcome or that members are representing mod opinion in some way. Clear enough?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Exactly apparently my comment was unclear .
What I wanted to say was when choosing to respond to a thread that ask about personal subjects it seems that it is your choice to respond about a personal subject. 

It seems odd to choose to respond to a thread about cheating with the response that’s personal and you don’t wanna talk about it. 

But of course you’re right the thread is open to different opinions and thoughts and anyone is free to respond as they wish


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

emdeengee said:


> I do think the whole question of a response to infidelity depends on the structure of your relationship as well as very different social and moral ideas about sex.
> 
> My Swiss godparents were married for nearly 50 years and they adored each other. I admit I was quite surprised when I learned that God papa had a mistress. I was terribly worried that finding this out would be very upsetting for God mama and I admit I was angry with God papa.
> 
> ...


Lol I’ve heard this story presented as a joke from many countries.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Never heard my story told as a joke. It certainly was a very eye opening experience for me. My parents were European but this way of living was not theirs. I was also quite shocked to find that son of God Parents had a mistress as they were only a few years into their marriage. So was his wife who did not agree with it and divorced him. So it all depends on what you want, believe in and often can negotiate.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

It took me close to 10 years and a divorce and a new marriage to finally forgive my first wife after she had an affair. We email a few times a year now, I wish her all the best (....but then she had the best and threw it away  ). I would never be able to trust her though.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Much like you my ex decided she needed something better she later changed her mind but she can’t come back I’m not interested in sleeping with her again and while we are very good friends I’m not going to plow the same field twice
Besides it took me 10 years to admit that my new wife is a woman for me I’m sure not gonna take a chance on that now. 
It took her about 10 years to finally find a good man and I wish them all the good luck in the world


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> Lol I take it you haven’t spent a lot of time in strip clubs?
> I think cheating needs to be defined that’s why it was the first question I asked in the beginning of the thread
> I’ve met more than one woman that would throw her husband out of the house if she caught him with a play boy magazine .
> In some places a lap dance can include minor intercourse
> ...


You got me there, I haven't been in a strip club, but it makes sense that things can go another way there, than what is presented.

If I didn't want to talk about something, I wouldn't respond at all. I just thought it was worth saying that it is a private thing.
It was my understanding that the thread was a question about if you would be able to forgive cheating, not what are your limits in regards to what you consider cheating. I guess I misunderstood.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> You got me there, I haven't been in a strip club, but it makes sense that things can go another way there, than what is presented.
> It was my understanding that the thread was a question about if you would be able to forgive cheating, not what are your limits in regards to what you consider cheating. I guess I misunderstood.


The two are kinda hard to separate.
One person's definition of 'cheating' may not be the same as another's, therefore when, where and why the forgiveness comes into play can be totally different too.

My own policy is a closely guarded secret........IOW I don't really know and never tested the boundaries or even asked what they were. 
The best advice I heard was to say, "What woman? What'd she look like? Guess I didn't notice her, I was too busy looking at _you_, baby!"

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> You got me there, I haven't been in a strip club, but it makes sense that things can go another way there, than what is presented.
> 
> If I didn't want to talk about something, I wouldn't respond at all. I just thought it was worth saying that it is a private thing.
> It was my understanding that the thread was a question about if you would be able to forgive cheating, not what are your limits in regards to what you consider cheating. I guess I misunderstood.


 Fair enough I can’t argue with that 
As I said earlier in this thread the definition of cheating is very important I’ve noticed the definition of cheating tends to be What men do that annoys women


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> I’ve noticed the definition of cheating tends to be What men do that annoys women


Lord, I hope not or there won't be but a few of us left if the definition is expanded to THAT..........and I'm not sure if the gay guys would get a pass or not.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

My husband anoys me as I am sure, I anoy him. Neither considers that cheating.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

farmrbrown said:


> The best advice I heard was to say, "What woman? What'd she look like? Guess I didn't notice her, I was too busy looking at _you_, baby!"
> 
> That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!


 Or as my wife tells me "I lost all interest in men once I married you." I'm not 100% sure that is a compliment.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

To clarify cheating tends to be defined by women as the things that men do for some reason the definition of cheating tends to leave out the things that women do.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Me to Mr. Pixie, "Were you looking at that woman's butt?" Mr. Pixie, "Stuttering". Me: "It's OK, her butt was awesome. Remember who bore you children, and stuck with *your* butt for almost 37 years." Mr. Pixie, "Your butt is better." Me: "Smart man."


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> My husband anoys me as I am sure, I anoy him. Neither considers that cheating.


If annoying were cheating, Mr. Pixie would be an every. single. day. cheater. To be fair, I'd be a once a week cheater...


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Yep, there's plenty of room for lesser charges on our indictment.
I usually just worry about the capital offenses..........


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> My husband anoys me as I am sure, I anoy him. Neither considers that cheating.


Hmm, if either of you annoy someone else...... is that cheating ? 

just kidding around in case someone takes it serious


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## Ziptie (May 16, 2013)

mnn2501 said:


> Or as my wife tells me "I lost all interest in men once I married you." I'm not 100% sure that is a compliment.



HA... That is about what I tell my husband. I love my DH tones but one husband is enough for me and never again.


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Cheating is a symptom of a problem. Get to the root of the problem so you can learn from it even if you decide to end the relationship or it may rear its ugly head in your next relationship.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Ziptie said:


> HA... That is about what I tell my husband. I love my DH tones but one husband is enough for me and never again.


Really !
I honest feelv bad for those men with multiple wives. 
And even worse and that each one comes with a mother-in-law OY!


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Irish Pixie said:


> Me to Mr. Pixie, "Were you looking at that woman's butt?" Mr. Pixie, "Stuttering". Me: "It's OK, her butt was awesome. Remember who bore you children, and stuck with *your* butt for almost 37 years." Mr. Pixie, "Your butt is better." Me: "Smart man."


Might be on a diet
But he can look at the menu.


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## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

elevenpoint said:


> Might be on a diet
> But he can look at the menu.


That's a two way street and can be a slippery slope. Some don't know how to just look.


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## bobp (Mar 4, 2014)

Personally I've stated many times if I sat on the divorce court bench, I'd never grant divorces due to infidelity. 
It's not something that can't be healed or gotten past, and too many children and families are hurt by divorce to allow it to be arbitrary. 

Marriage isn't something you should be able to just quit....

I trust my wife, and never worry about her straying, however if she did I doubt it would be so catastrophic as to cause us to split the family up.....dont get me wrong.....I'm sure itd be rough and ugly at times, but we'd get through it.....

Full disclosure I'm on my third marriage, but only my first wife, and partner....the first we were just kids and married out of foolish impulses, second was to help with a child custody issue....


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

bobp said:


> Personally I've stated many times if I sat on the divorce court bench, I'd never grant divorces due to infidelity.
> It's not something that can't be healed or gotten past, and too many children and families are hurt by divorce to allow it to be arbitrary.
> 
> Marriage isn't something you should be able to just quit....


IMO, once a spouse has slept with another person they have already quit the marriage. It's in the contract, "forsaking all others". But that's just my opinion. I don't think i could get past it. Thankfully I've not had to deal with that issue.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Since each individual, or pair of individuals, gets to decide on what set of silly boundaries they wish to impose on their relationship, then I would say that it is up to those individuals to determine the ramifications for overstepping those boundaries. 

Most of these boundaries are based on religious ideas, which just coincidentally happen to induce guilt in certain situations. Like for instance, you are a fifteen year old girl, arranged marriage in a male dominated society, that has now grown into a 30 year old woman, and realized that her fat, bald, smelly husband is the epitome of all things revolting. Mustn't cheat, or god will hate you. Poor girl has already been cheated, by a society that allows religious ideas to even hint at a suggestion of what love actually is.

Those societal norms really level the playing field. Well I find you repulsive now, but a vow is a vow. Imagine how many bald overweight guys that drink too much, and how many women that just let themselves go would be cooking/changing oil for themselves if we didn't have these "norms" in place. And the lawyers, laughing all the way to the bank, over pure silliness.

When britches come off, in a clandestine extramarital encounter, that relationship is already long gone. Sex is just a thing, and not a very big thing, in the grand scheme of things. It's a shame so many lives are ruined over it.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

*"IMO, once a spouse has slept with another person they have already quit the marriage."*

I believe this also. 

When a married person is living like a single person the marriage is usually over. They've quit physically and emotionally with their spouse.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Danaus29 said:


> IMO, once a spouse has slept with another person they have already quit the marriage. It's in the contract, "forsaking all others". But that's just my opinion. I don't think i could get past it. Thankfully I've not had to deal with that issue.


 Do you really believe what you say here ?
Because I believe it applies to more than just sex.
If a woman has Resorted to Harlequin romances, chick flicks, girls nights out etc. for some of her romantic needs I believe she’s already cheating. Obviously if she resorts to those things she is not forsaking all others.


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## colourfastt (Nov 11, 2006)

Hmph .... I don't think I've ever seen such rigid thinking before. In my case, I had been married for 4 years and my now ex-wife went through an early mid-life crisis. Used up all of her vacation time hitting the bars at the beach .. that sort of thing. One of the members of the bar-hitting group was a new employee where she worked ... straight out of college (in other words, about 15 years younger than her). She started spending nights at his condo (not that I cared) and when his lease ended, he moved into my house (I slept in the master bedroom and they slept on sleeping bags in the living room). It was an efficient situation: they took her car to work and I drove HIS car to work.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Lol I don’t think that my thinking is rigid , for instance I Have no problem with your situation I just think that it is accurate and fair.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> If a woman has Resorted to Harlequin romances,.... for some of her romantic needs I believe she’s already cheating.


Maybe I'm not comprehending. 

I do understand it is your relationship with your wife however you both choose. 

May I just say tho, as an author of subjects containing 'romance' and of 'physical intimacy', a lot of what is written is to enhance a readers personal relationship and not to bring damage or negativity to the readers personal life.

How does one learn without books...


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## 101pigs (Sep 18, 2018)

AmericanStand said:


> Really !
> I honest feelv bad for those men with multiple wives.
> And even worse and that each one comes with a mother-in-law OY!


LDS and some others in UT. Don't seem to have a problem with many wives.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I had more problems with the one I had than some of them have.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> Do you really believe what you say here ?
> Because I believe it applies to more than just sex.
> If a woman has Resorted to Harlequin romances, chick flicks, girls nights out etc. for some of her romantic needs I believe she’s already cheating. Obviously if she resorts to those things she is not forsaking all others.


I’m curious, if a woman masturbates is she cheating? How about if a man does?


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

How about other women. Hers, not mine.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> I’m curious, if a woman masturbates is she cheating? How about if a man does?


I think you might have to negotiate those events in his relationships.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> I think you might have to negotiate those events in his relationships.


I knew a couple women that considered masturbation cheating. For both partners.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> I’m curious, if a woman masturbates is she cheating? How about if a man does?


Of course. 
Or maybe not. 
Does it deprive your partner of anything ?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

tiffanysgallery said:


> Maybe I'm not comprehending.
> 
> I do understand it is your relationship with your wife however you both choose.
> 
> ...


 personally I’m a big fan of on the job training


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> Of course.
> Or maybe not.
> Does it deprive your partner of anything ?


No clue. I also don’t know if reading bodice rippers is depriving a partner of anything. In my opinion, it’s not cheating.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

101pigs said:


> LDS and some others in UT. Don't seem to have a problem with many wives.


 I have met a few of those men is why I staunchly believe in mono-monogamy


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> No clue. I also don’t know if reading bodice rippers is depriving a partner of anything. In my opinion, it’s not cheating.


Could you present us with your definition of cheating?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I already did near the beginning of the thread.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

painterswife said:


> You are hilarious. A romance novel stokes the fire and ends up with sex. Even better if you read the good parts outloud together.


You know I’ve heard that about sex with others.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> A physical or emotional relationship that is purposely concealed from your partner.
> 
> There is no negotiation for sex in our relationship, we either want it or we don't. No games. Either one of us is fully able to say no, and that's the way it should be.


This is the problem. 
I belive it is the most widespread form of cheating


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> A physical or emotional relationship that is purposely concealed from your partner.


 So as long as you don’t hide it it’s not cheating?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Irish Pixie said:


> I already did near the beginning of the thread.


 Thank you very much for having posted your definition you’re one of the few that would do so. I think that is brave of you and honest
You were correct I had to go back and read it carefully I am sorry to of missed it.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> personally I’m a big fan of on the job training


I appreciate your honesty in your reply. 

I don't know, maybe your getting your ideas from Religion?


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

101pigs said:


> LDS and some others in UT. Don't seem to have a problem with many wives.


The LDS do not have more than one wife - its been an prohibited since the 1890's.
There are some splinter groups that do practice polygamy but they are all extremely patriarchal groups.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

tiffanysgallery said:


> I appreciate your honesty in your reply.
> 
> I don't know, maybe your getting your ideas from Religion?


 Religion tends to have lots of good ideas about getting along with other people and in relationships so yes I draw some of my ideas from there


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

tiffanysgallery said:


> May I just say tho, as an author of subjects containing 'romance' and of 'physical intimacy', a lot of what is written is to enhance a readers personal relationship and not to bring damage or negativity to the readers personal life....


 Do you your readers read just one book and then go out and apply the lessons? Or do they read many books with the same lessons in them ?
why do you suppose that might be?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> Do you your readers read just one book and then go out and apply the lessons? Or do they read many books with the same lessons in them ?
> why do you suppose that might be?


Why do you think romance books are cheating?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

AmericanStand said:


> So as long as you don’t hide it it’s not cheating?


I already explained this as well. If both partners know, and agree with a poly, open, etc relationship, it’s not cheating. So yes, if it’s not secret it’s not cheating, in my opinion.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Religion tends to have lots of good ideas about getting along with other people and in relationships so yes I draw some of my ideas from there


Well, there's nothing wrong with that .
I thought I saw a bit of religion in your comments, thus why I asked this. 
Thanks again.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Do you your readers read just one book and then go out and apply the lessons?...


I don't know the answer to your question. 
I just write and sell the books. I don't go home with those who buy them.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Or do they read many books with the same lessons in them ?


It is possible. 
Like, people have more than one cookbook.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Do you consider eating chocolate cheating? Listening to love songs? There is no relationship with the characters in a book. If you think someone is choosing that over sex with a partner, I believe you are wrong in 99.9 percent of situations. If they stopped having sex with you and are not having it with someone else then there is something else going on. Not cheating. It could be anything from no libido to not getting the romance they need from you. Not everyone is comfortable in asking for what they need or want or maybe they did ask and it did not click with to you.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

tiffanysgallery said:


> It is possible.
> Like, people have more than one cookbook.


Same thing.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Do you your readers read just one book and then go out and apply the lessons? Or do they read many books with the same lessons in them ?
> *why do you suppose that might be?*


It could be that some people are only interested in that subject so that's what they like to read. 

My Mother, love her, has given the book, _The Joy of Sex_, as a wedding gift to just about every female in our family. I don't know why she does this, but it seems to be an important book for couples, and the ladies have always seem grateful for their copy.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Do you your readers read just one book and then go out and apply the lessons? Or do they read many books with the same lessons in them ?
> why do you suppose that might be?


Do you ever read books?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

tiffanysgallery said:


> It is possible.
> Like, people have more than one cookbook.


 But every cookbook would have different Formulas , lots and lots of different formulas 
When it comes to the lessons learned in your books aren’t there a very limited amount of formulas?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

mreynolds said:


> Do you ever read books?


Yes I try to limit it to one a day


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

tiffanysgallery said:


> It could be that some people are only interested in that subject so that's what they like to read.
> 
> My Mother, love her, has given the book, _The Joy of Sex_, as a wedding gift to just about every female in our family. I don't know why she does this, but it seems to be an important book for couples, and the ladies have always seem grateful for their copy.


 Ding Ding Ding 
We have a winner in fact we have two winners !
I like what you said about your mother !
Dont you suppose if someone likes to read about one subject there’s a reason?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Tiffany I stand in awe of your ability to write books.

I am a teller of adult bedtime stories specifically tailored for one person on the subject of their request .
I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to write to a broader audience ,one is all I can handle at a time .


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Ding Ding Ding
> We have a winner in fact we have two winners !
> I like what you said about your mother !
> Dont you suppose if someone likes to read about one subject there’s a reason?


I appreciate your words. 
Yes, certain subjects spark interest for some and not for others.



AmericanStand said:


> Tiffany I stand in awe of your ability to write books.
> 
> I am a teller of adult bedtime stories specifically tailored for one person on the subject of their request .
> I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to write to a broader audience ,one is all I can handle at a time .


I believe everyone has a story they can write.
Maybe, one day, you may want to write your bedtime stories down on paper. It could be a gift from you to her, and that would be a great memory for you both. 
I don't think about writing to a broader audience when I write, I just write, everyday, and I write more. 



AmericanStand said:


> So as long as you don’t hide it it’s not cheating?


I'm glad you don't fully understand cheating. 
It's deception at it's finest. It's also dishonest. And when it happens, the hurt goes straight to the core of a being. It's not anything nice or kind and it never will be.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Yes I try to limit it to one a day


Most fiction book regardless of genre have some kind of romantic interest in them.

You cheat on your wife every day. You should go to her and ask forgiveness.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I read almost only science fiction/fantasy. I have yet to read a book without a love story in it.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> I read almost only science fiction/fantasy. I have yet to read a book without a love story in it.


That's my main genre too mixed with a little Grissom and Kounce.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

mreynolds said:


> Most fiction book regardless of genre have some kind of romantic interest in them.
> 
> You cheat on your wife every day. You should go to her and ask forgiveness.


Don't do it AS!
Plead ignorance or stupidity instead, it's always a man's best defense cuz they'll believe that one!
Please don't upset the delicate balance of thousands of years in our relationships.


----------



## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

Am I 100% sure of what I'd do if I was cheated on in a relationship? When it happened to me in the past I forgave them multiple times . But they never ceased their infidelity. I had to make choice and I chose self respect and filed for divorce. Although they've been forgiven,it will never be forgotten. I've dated a few times since my divorce but I've remained "Independently Owned and Operated" for closing in on 17 years. And while I often find myself wishing that I had someone to share life with I'm now "Damaged Goods" with lots of issues that not many women would be willing to deal with.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I had to add this.

Fiction books are about relationships. All aspects of relationships. Some are more graphic, some are not. A good writer puts you right there, makes you feel what the characters are feeling. How in the world can that be cheating? I guess if all you do is read and don't interact in any way with your partner it might possibly be but then it is more likely they are not getting what they need from the other partner and they are not really in a relationship of any worth.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

mreynolds said:


> Most fiction book regardless of genre have some kind of romantic interest in them.
> 
> You cheat on your wife every day. You should go to her and ask forgiveness.


I’ve asked she has forgiven
me in advance.
The book I’m currently Reading is one of the most blatantly sexualized books I’ve read in quite a while. 
“ genetic diversity in Kodiak island ursa major “


----------



## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> I’ve asked she has forgiven
> me in advance.
> The book I’m currently Reading is one of the most blatantly sexualized books I’ve read in quite a while.
> “ genetic diversity in Kodiak island ursa major “


Pervert.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

tiffanysgallery said:


> I believe everyone has a story they can write.
> Maybe, one day, you may want to write your bedtime stories down on paper. It could be a gift from you to her, and that would be a great memory for you both.
> I don't think about writing to a broader audience when I write, I just write, everyday, and I write more.


 I can’t agree with you on this one.
I would love to be able to write and I have tried to again and again but writing eludes me
I’m not sure that writing the stories down would be such a good thing anyway a very important part of the telling of the stories is actually in my voice.
The girls that have heard my bedtime stories refer to my voice as sin wrapped and dark chocolate with a glass of wine on the side.


----------



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

tiffanysgallery said:


> I'm glad you don't fully understand cheating.
> It's deception at it's finest. It's also dishonest. And when it happens, the hurt goes straight to the core of a being. It's not anything nice or kind and it never will be.


 I agree with you on this. And I found that many men do not understand it until it’s explain to them but wanted to explain to get it instantly. 
Many men seem to find them selves trapped in a loveless marriage with no the physical attributes that attracted them to it .
They don’t understand how it can be so wrong of them to leave a marriage that isn’t giving them anything they want.
They think that there is something wrong with them when they can’t get what they came into the marriage expecting. 

When there is seeking that romance the physical loving and the physical intimacy and the woman there with doesn’t they see the inequality of it. 
When a woman denies them access to her body how can it be wrong for them to access another? When a woman denies them access to their body how can they be expected to continue to pay for the bills to support the children that they didn’t desire. 
When that woman was so physical before they got married?


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Mish said:


> Pervert.


You have no idea !!
this Chronicles many layers and interactions of incest


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> The book I’m currently Reading is one of the most blatantly sexualized books I’ve read in quite a while.
> “ genetic diversity in Kodiak island ursa major “
> 
> You have no idea !!
> this Chronicles many layers and interactions of incest


A book about "ursa major" would be about astronomy.



> *Ursa Major - Wikipedia*
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursa_Major
> Ursa Major (/ ˈ ɜːr s ə ˈ m eɪ dʒ ər /; also known as the Great Bear) is a constellation in the northern sky,





> The Kodiak bear (Ursus arctos middendorffi),


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

I guess you’re going to have to take that up with the indigenous peoples


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

emdeengee said:


> I do think the whole question of a response to infidelity depends on the structure of your relationship as well as very different social and moral ideas about sex.
> 
> My Swiss godparents were married for nearly 50 years and they adored each other. I admit I was quite surprised when I learned that God papa had a mistress. I was terribly worried that finding this out would be very upsetting for God mama and I admit I was angry with God papa.
> 
> ...


 I thought you might want to see this from EBaums world. 

*Ours is Cuter*

A married couple was enjoying a dinner out when a statuesque blonde walked over to their table, exchanged warm greetings with the husband, and walked off.

"Who was that?" the wife demanded.

"If you must know," he coolly replied, "that was my mistress."

"Your mistress? I want a divorce!"

"Are you sure you want to give up a big house in the suburbs, a
Mercedes, furs, jewelry and a vacation home in Mexico?" he asked.

They continued dining in silence. Finally, the woman nudged her husband and said, "Isn't that Howard over there? Who's he with?"

"That's his mistress," her husband replied.

"Oh," she said, taking a bite of dessert. "Ours is cuter."

———————————————————_
I suspect it’s a relatively common event That Has been repeated in the lives of more than one couple


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Well that sure is a surprise. I have never heard of this site so looked it up. EBaums world was started in 2001. My time in Europe with my Godparents took place in 1970 to 73. Not sure in which of those years the "mistress walk' took place. I have written about this on several sites including on this one before. I wonder if I am owed royalties? Probably worth millions by now. Probably not as none of my posts have a copyright Probably should still sue. Kidding. Maybe.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

I would say that the definition of cheating all depends on what you have agreed on with your partner. One reason to have very frank discussions before entering into a permanent (or actually even casual) relationship. If you choose/negotiate/ decide on sexual monogamy then there is no sliding scale that would allow for a physical affair. The same applies to an emotional affair. Deciding on what constitutes an emotional affair is quite complex I think. This is quite an interesting article.


https://pairedlife.com/problems/What-Is-Considered-Cheating-men-and-women-point-of-view


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> I agree with you on this. And I found that many men do not understand it until it’s explain to them but wanted to explain to get it instantly.
> Many men seem to find them selves trapped in a loveless marriage with no the physical attributes that attracted them to it .
> They don’t understand how it can be so wrong of them to leave a marriage that isn’t giving them anything they want.
> They think that there is something wrong with them when they can’t get what they came into the marriage expecting.
> ...



But you make it sound like a man just gets married so he can have sex when he wants. He can have sex the same as married or unmarried. The same rules will still apply. It still takes two to tango. 

Why would a man want to get married just so he thinks he can have his way with a woman?


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

Romance novels and chick flicks are not cheating. Most are stimulants for the emotions with some titillation. A lot of good sex is in the mind. I wonder just how insecure a man would have to be to be threatened by a paperback novel. How would he ever handle a hardcover?

Men seem to require and prefer more physical and graphic sex scenes as in pornography or at strip clubs to get turned on. And of course all the closeups of women's anatomy on TV. One of the funniest of these scenes is from FRIENDS - the Baywatch episode.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

emdeengee said:


> How would he ever handle a hardcover?
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Lol, thanks for that. I needed a laugh.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

So you know - With technology encroaching on all parts of our lives, the study looked at "robot sex" and one in four singles would have sex with a robot, yet nearly half of singles would consider it cheating if their partner had sex with a robot.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

mreynolds said:


> But you make it sound like a man just gets married so he can have sex when he wants. He can have sex the same as married or unmarried. The same rules will still apply. It still takes two to tango.
> 
> Why would a man want to get married just so he thinks he can have his way with a woman?


Certainly sex isn’t all there is to marriage but it is an important part of it far more important than just the sex itself


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> nearly half of singles would consider it cheating if their partner had sex with a robot.


Is a vibrator a "robot"?
Some are named Bob.


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

HDRider said:


> So you know - With technology encroaching on all parts of our lives, the study looked at "robot sex" and one in four singles would have sex with a robot, yet nearly half of singles would consider it cheating if their partner had sex with a robot.




I have known women who consider their husband's use of his hand to be cheating. Others just happy for the break.
Robots, vibrators, sex toys and even other partners. To each their own as long as the couple agrees on their life.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

emdeengee said:


> Well that sure is a surprise. I have never heard of this site so looked it up. EBaums world was started in 2001. My time in Europe with my Godparents took place in 1970 to 73. Not sure in which of those years the "mistress walk' took place. I have written about this on several sites including on this one before. I wonder if I am owed royalties? Probably worth millions by now. Probably not as none of my posts have a copyright Probably should still sue. Kidding. Maybe.


I am pretty sure that I have been hearing those stories since before the 70s but they almost all universally feature a Swiss Banker so maybe you’re right
And it is your story


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

emdeengee said:


> Romance novels and chick flicks are not cheating. Most are stimulants for the emotions *ding ding ding *with some titillation. *Ding Dong Ding *A lot of good sex is in the mind. *Ding ding ding *I wonder just how insecure a man would have to be to be threatened by a paperback novel. *The same amount a woman is when threatened by a man having sex with someone *How would he ever handle a hardcover?
> 
> Men seem to require and prefer more physical and graphic sex scenes as in pornography or at step clubs to get turned on


 I think your first line is wrong and then you go on the refute it 
with everything else you say !


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## Oxankle (Jun 20, 2003)

I've been around a while and have watched a few unfaithful spouses. One acquaintance is devoted to his wife but is a serial cheat. They've been married for over sixty years that I've known them. I once asked a priest about this; my comment was that I supposed most cheaters were men. "No, chuck, nowadays it is about fifty fifty."

My own opinion, and this is nothing but opinion, is that men are programmed to cheat if a woman offers herself---and any man who has ever dealt with the public or has any particular distinction, achievement, good looks, authority, money---knows that women will offer. The married man who declines such offers does so because he has a sense of loyalty, likes what he has at home and does not want to endanger it. 

LOL, I once sat in a conference next to an important man. Suddenly I felt a bare foot caressing my ankle. Without changing expression I leaned back, stretched my arms and yawned, and looked across the table at a young woman staring intently at the important man. I still wonder if she ever realized that her aim was bad. That one was simply amusing; some others were a bit dicey. Once, on an interview in August way out in the country, I was about to leave and asked the lady if I might have a glass of water before I left. "Of course, I've some cold water in the fridge.' Next thing I knew she was standing two inches from my nose with the water held slightly behind her shoulder. I fled.

Women, I believe, cheat when they are not given at home what they need---not enough affection, not enough attention. The woman who feels that she is not loved or valued, kept around only as a household servant and convenience, will stray or leave. A man really has to devote some time to a woman if he expects her to keep his house, bear his children, feed and clothe him, tend him when he is ill and assure him that he is special. It is an every day job, not once a week. In short, you keep them the same way you catch them.

Of course there are outlaws of both sexes who simply defy all the rules, but most, I think, fall within the bounds of my comments.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> Certainly sex isn’t all there is to marriage but it is an important part of it far more important than just the sex itself


And because of this important fact is why you don't just expect it just when *YOU* want it. It has to be reciprocated. If it's not then you need to find out why and solve the problem. 

I have been married for decades and do understand the importance of sex.


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## tiffanysgallery (Jan 17, 2015)

AmericanStand said:


> ... I would love to be able to write and I have tried to again and again but writing eludes me... very important part of the telling of the stories is actually in my voice... *The girls *that have heard my bedtime stories* refer to my voice as sin wrapped and dark chocolate with a glass of wine on the side.*


Whomever said this, ^ in bold, is your writer. Just like Laura Ingalls Wilder, these girls may grow-up and write nostalgically about the stories they hear you tell. That's wonderful.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

mreynolds said:


> And because of this important fact is why you don't just expect it just when *YOU* want it. It has to be reciprocated. If it's not then you need to find out why and solve the problem.
> 
> I have been married for decades and do understand the importance of sex.


Yes yes yes !
I think the other person desiring sex is sometimes more inportant than the actual sex. 

But peoples appetites and never exactly the same as part of a couple issues a team effort and we need to accommodate each other. 
That’s a lot of what I’ve been talking about here. The processes we use to accommodate each other


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## Scott SW Ohio (Sep 20, 2003)

haypoint said:


> I've never heard of a case where a person confessed, hoping to be forgiven, that ended well.


Here's one. I came home from work one day in 1990 and my wife told me she had been having an affair. We had been married seven years, and I had no clue that anything was wrong with our marriage. I was pretty stunned initially, but over the next day or so we talked a lot and I discovered my wife felt that we were incompatible and she really wanted to be with a different kind of guy. So I got an apartment and we separated. Six months later we were amicably divorced and in new long-term relationships. Now, 29 years later, she is in Arizona with her "new" guy and I am still in Ohio with my "new" wife of 28 years. We are still in touch, speak by phone often and exchange birthday cards and treat each other as old friends. Probably getting divorced was the best thing that ever happened to me because it lead to me finding the real love of my life and mother of my daughter, and I know my ex is happier too.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Scott SW Ohio said:


> Here's one. I came home from work one day in 1990 and my wife told me she had been having an affair. We had been married seven years, and I had no clue that anything was wrong with our marriage. I was pretty stunned initially, but over the next day or so we talked a lot and I discovered my wife felt that we were incompatible and she really wanted to be with a different kind of guy. So I got an apartment and we separated. Six months later we were amicably divorced and in new long-term relationships. Now, 29 years later, she is in Arizona with her "new" guy and I am still in Ohio with my "new" wife of 28 years. We are still in touch, speak by phone often and exchange birthday cards and treat each other as old friends. Probably getting divorced was the best thing that ever happened to me because it lead to me finding the real love of my life and mother of my daughter, and I know my ex is happier too.


I guess my "not ending well" I meant the rift was repaired and they stayed together and the marriage was stronger.

IMHO, once the word divorce is uttered, each partner begins to protect themselves. Hold back a bit of emotion, so the fall won't hurt. Hold back money, start a private savings account. Protection so you'll have a smoother separation, if it comes to that. Assume that any time away could be either another affair or a retaliation for your affair. Shadows of doubt grow. That can spiral to "I don't want to be the fool, if they are having an affair (the only proof is pure speculation) I'm going to get out there and cultivate my new lover."

Marriage requires every bit of giving there is, without the expectation of equal return. When you start holding back, it fails.

First there needs to be a verbal apology. Next there needs to be an assurance that it won't happen again. Sort of like parole. Then the damage needs to be repaired. Might involve some big compromises. This is for all friends and lovers.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

haypoint said:


> Marriage requires every bit of giving there is, without the expectation of equal return. When you start holding back, it fails.


 Now that right there is some wise counsel


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

I guess it also means the word "forgiveness" has different meanings as well as "cheating".
The happy ending after Scott's divorce sounds like forgiveness too.


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## DebbieJ (Oct 9, 2016)

Since I’ve been married previously to my husband, and they cheated on me. I don’t think I could ever trust them. As I didn’t before. Married and divorced twice before to serial cheaters. I’ve been married to my present husband for almost 30 years. I trust him 100% not to cheat. We are both retired now and are together every day. Almost all day. I love him more today than the day we married. I feel if you cheat on your spouse, you don’t respect them. And I’m big on respect!


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## Chris in Mich (May 13, 2002)

no loyalty equal no trust


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## Miss Kay (Mar 31, 2012)

Actually I’ve known a few couples who have repaired their marriage after infidelity and went on to grow old together. The key is they faced the issues that were causing the underlying problems and moved forward with a better working marriage. I actually have a relative that was shot by his wife’s boyfriend and survived. It was staged to look like a robbery but once the investigation turned up the boyfriend his wife had to confess. Not sure I could have ever gotten past that but it’s been twenty years or so and they are still married. The couples who made it long term really loved each other but were not always happy with each other.


Before retiring I was a supervisor over a group of people and found that when they came in and closed the door behind them, I became their den mother. One young man told me about seeing his wife in the arms of her Dentist so he moved out and was preparing for a divorce. He loved his wife and missed his kids but assumed his marriage must be over. I told him about some of the couples I had known who had gone through something similar and how they put their marriage back together. After 6 months or so apart, they decided to get counseling and it was an eye opener for him. They both made the changes needed and last I heard they have a very happy family now.


I would hate for a couple to read some of these posts and assume it must all be over because one of them cheated. If you want your marriage to work, then work on it. Don’t give up until you are 100 percent sure it is over. Most people don’t talk about it but there are many marriages out there that bounced back from a near divorce and yes you can live happily ever after again. I’ve seen it!


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

*Muslim Wedding Vows*
Bride: "I,offer you myself in marriage in accordance with the instructions of the Holy Quran and the Holy Prophet, peace and blessing be upon him. I pledge, in honesty and with sincerity, to be for you an obedient and faithful wife." Groom: "I pledge, in honesty and sincerity, to be for you a faithful and helpful husband."

*Hindu Wedding Vows*
"Let us take the first step to provide for our household a nourishing and pure diet, avoiding those foods injurious to healthy living.

"Let us take the second step to develop physical, mental and spiritual powers.

"Let us take the third step to increase our wealth by righteous means and proper use.

"Let us take the fourth step to acquire knowledge, happiness and harmony by mutual love and trust.

"Let us take the fifth step so that we are blessed with strong, virtuous and heroic children.

"Let us take the sixth step for self-restraint and longevity.

"Finally, let us take the seventh step and be true companions and remain lifelong partners by this wedlock."

*Protestant Wedding Vows*
"I, take thee, to be my wedded husband/wife, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I pledge thee my faith [or] pledge myself to you."


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

The forgive part is really not too difficult, but I find it impossible to forget, or to ever trust the cheater again. 

Miss Kay brings pointed insights to the question.

The cheater will never have my trust or RESPECT again.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm not going to dump all over people who could forgive a cheating partner. I haven't heard anyone who couldn't get past an unfaithful partner cutting down those who could forgive a cheater. Seems a bit skewed that the ones on the forgiveness side are so harsh on those who can't forgive a cheater.

Forgiveness or not is a very personal issue. Everything depends on the attitude of the people involved. 

Traditional marriage vow;
*Officiant:*(Bride) will you take (Groom) to be your lawful husband, will you love him, honor and keep him in sickness and in health and forsaking all others keep only unto him so long as you both shall live.

My definition of cheating, intercourse or intent to have intercourse with a person you to whom you are not married.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

I knew a couple where the man was a habitual cheater, for many years. The wife forgave him repeatedly. Then when she was feeling neglected she sought comfort elsewhere. Husband caught them and immediately moved out and filed for divorce. 

Another couple where the wife was the habitual cheater, husband found out about it after her second child was born. The marriage fell apart while paternity was being determined.

I know of other couples who tried to get past a cheater but the marriages eventually fell apart for other reasons, and other marriages where they stayed together despite years of multiple partners. 

Sure, people can get past a cheating partner. No one ever said that no one would ever be able to forgive a cheating partner. It all depends on those involved. But the original question wasn't if a marriage could be saved if a partner cheated. The question was could you personally forgive a cheater.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

I know a few who have forgiven and gone on to have strong marriages also. my brother in law for one. he forgave my sister and I can't say for sure of course but I do believe he's totally forgotten it. that was something like 45 years ago.

I have a cousin who spent years in prison for killing his wife when he found her with a guy. that's about 60 years ago now.he'd likely get off now with temporary insanity. he was such a quiet guy.


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