# Kudos to Iowa



## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

When I lived in Nebraska I had numerous opportunities to hunt big game in Iowa. Having to get an our-of-state tag was one thing but their restriction to use a rifle/slug was intolerable for me. I'd rather throw rocks at the deer. But today, with all the AR-15 misinformation flying so freely I see this:









Reynolds expands deer hunting with semi-automatic rifles


Iowa deer hunters will be allowed to use semi-automatic weapons including AR-15 rifles to kill deer in more parts of the state during a newly created antlerless




ktvo.com


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Wisconsin went rifle state wide about 10 years ago 

Sheriffs deputies actually had fewer calls after going rifle for farm equipment and out buildings struck by projectiles than when it was slug only in our county.

People treat a rifle like rifle and generally hit what they were aiming at 

people will try to Lob in slugs like they are mortar rounds in desperation at a deer 175 yards away , they don't understand that the slug will go 400 yards they just can't predict where it will go once it starts tumbling to get a hit on a deer so slugs hits the wagon parked on the fence row that they never thought it could even reach,


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## BadOregon (12 mo ago)

Don't take this the wrong way, but please explain to me why you need a semi auto to hunt? As a youngster (with a gunsmith father who was in the military) I was taught to shoot/hunt with a rifle. And had to practice till I could hit the target correctly with one shot. Doesn't hitting the target with multiple rounds make a mess of the meat? 
This has always confounded me.


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

BadOregon said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but please explain to me why you need a semi auto to hunt? As a youngster (with a gunsmith father who was in the military) I was taught to shoot/hunt with a rifle. And had to practice till I could hit the target correctly with one shot. Doesn't hitting the target with multiple rounds make a mess of the meat?
> This has always confounded me.


Ideally you don't need to fire multiple time at a game animal. For many people a semi auto is the only rifle they have ever fired. A semi auto may be the only rifle they own. If the rifle is in a caliber suitable for the game you are hunting, the government has no business telling you that you can't hunt with it. When Winchester came out with lever action rifles, and marketed them as hunting rifles, many people argued that they had always hunted with a single shot, and nobody needed a self loader to hunt game. 

The truth of the matter is, it's nobody business what you choose to hunt with. If the weapon, yes rifles are weapons. If the weapon is legal to own, and you are using it in a legal fashion, the choice of which type of rifle it is shouldn't matter.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

BadOregon said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but please explain to me why you need a semi auto to hunt? As a youngster (with a gunsmith father who was in the military) I was taught to shoot/hunt with a rifle. And had to practice till I could hit the target correctly with one shot. Doesn't hitting the target with multiple rounds make a mess of the meat?
> This has always confounded me.


why do you need anything , but it sure makes shooting multiple runners a lot easier 

we might have 5+ extra tags deer are thick in some places this isn't like some places where you get 3 months to deer hunt you get a week.

I don't do it al the time but several times I shot 2 deer a half second apart some day I might get to 3


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

BadOregon said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but please explain to me why you need a semi auto to hunt? As a youngster (with a gunsmith father who was in the military) I was taught to shoot/hunt with a rifle. And had to practice till I could hit the target correctly with one shot. Doesn't hitting the target with multiple rounds make a mess of the meat?
> This has always confounded me.


This is a question often used by anti-gunners to justify taking away semiautomatic guns from citizens. It sounds logical to the uninformed. Anti-gunners strategy is to remove select categories of guns from us until we can only have flintlocks. Small bites.

From the standpoint of hunting, you don't "need" semiautomatic weapons. They just make things easier. I can crank off rounds almost as fast with my pump action as a semiautomatic. The difference is that the action of pumping pulls the gun off target and you have to reacquire it. With a semi you can concentrate on staying on target while the gun reloads itself. I have shot 2 deer with my semiauto before the second one could move. When multiple pheasants flush or a dozen ducks fly into the decoys you can bag more of them with a semi. 

For non-hunting situations a semi is definitely the way to go. When a pack of coyotes is attacking your sheep you want to kill as many as possible before they get out of range. Scaring them away is only temporary. They can't come back later if they are dead. The same thing is true with human coyotes doing a home invasion. In that case I want a 30 round magazine to handle up to a dozen perpetrators and keep shooting until they stop trying to hurt me.


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## BadOregon (12 mo ago)

So you are using the semi auto to hit multiple targets, not just one. Last time I hunted, I was lucky to see even one dang deer, much less a bunch of them. I could see that being useful with multiple tags. Or bird hunting. Only time I ever hunted birds, they flew up in front of me and startled me so bad I didn't hit a one.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

the instant you introduce proving a NEED it ends up like NYC handgun permits , you could have multiple threats on your life and the city just stamps insufficient NEED on the form because you aren't well connected or politically influential,

Need is a slippey slope , Adolf used Need and Sporting purpose to register and disarm Europe yes more than just Germany he convinced many countries that this was the answer to greater safety , it sounds so elegant when you talk about it in polite company , it's a whole lot less elegant staring down an execution for being the race you were born.

nothing but a lie.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

BadOregon said:


> So you are using the semi auto to hit multiple targets, not just one. Last time I hunted, I was lucky to see even one dang deer, much less a bunch of them. I could see that being useful with multiple tags. Or bird hunting. Only time I ever hunted birds, they flew up in front of me and startled me so bad I didn't hit a one.


sometimes it is for one deer and you fire one shot just because you have more than you don't have to use them , sometimes it is running deer , want to get more deer train to hit them running some times you miss but when the next round is 2 strides from the last one you can stay on them till they are on the ground. does it damage more meat , sure but 50 pound of meat with 3 pounds of waste is easier to eat than 0 pounds of meat with 0 pounds of waste.

some states have a round limit of 5 rounds in semi auto guns for hunting 

this isn't some new thing in 1905 they were recognizing the benefits of semi auto rifles in hunting.


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

BadOregon, I'm sorry I brought this up. I didn't mean to cause an Oregon moment. You are correct - one shot and one kill. In perfection it should be right on target. Can you do that or are you just haranguing us homesteaders that take our meat from the field? Sometimes it isn't the case for a clean shot. You ever chase a wounded animal? Hours and hours chasing a blood trail and it disappears. You know the animal will die but you can't find it. Oh, if there was only a decent follow up shot the animal would not have been wasted....

My favorite is a 45-70. I personally am glad it is not a semi-auto.


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## BadOregon (12 mo ago)

Seriously dude, I really wanted to know. If you actually read my posts, you will see that I agreed with the reasoning and that I hunt as well. Just because I don't use one doesn't mean I can't understand why one would. Asking a question does not make me having "an Oregon moment" as you so rudely put it. Living in Oregon does not make me an idiot, any more than living in Washington makes you one. 
I hardly think getting more information is "haranguing" you homesteaders.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

BadOregon said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but please explain to me why you need a semi auto to hunt? As a youngster (with a gunsmith father who was in the military) I was taught to shoot/hunt with a rifle. And had to practice till I could hit the target correctly with one shot. Doesn't hitting the target with multiple rounds make a mess of the meat?
> This has always confounded me.


I hunt squirrel with a semi-auto rifle.


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## BadOregon (12 mo ago)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> the instant you introduce proving a NEED it ends up like NYC handgun permits , you could have multiple threats on your life and the city just stamps insufficient NEED on the form because you aren't well connected or politically influential,
> 
> Need is a slippey slope , Adolf used Need and Sporting purpose to register and disarm Europe yes more than just Germany he convinced many countries that this was the answer to greater safety , it sounds so elegant when you talk about it in polite company , it's a whole lot less elegant staring down an execution for being the race you were born.
> 
> nothing but a lie.


So just change the word "need" in my question to "want". I really only wanted clarification since I haven't hunted with a semi auto.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

semi auto guns have a place in young or small statured shooters because they soften the recoil.

the go to gun when we shot clay at the end of hunters education was a Remington 1100 20ga they would only load one round at a time but it was very soft shooting.

my first gun to hunt with was a 1100 20ga semi auto that my dad bought when I was 11 for me to hunt with.
my first shotgun that I bought was a 1100 12ga a few years later 

later my dad used his 12ga browning semi auto after his first neck surgery and then later yet the 1100 20ga as he got more and more busted up he has back , neck fusions and shoulder , hip replacements.

as he got older he got more and more recoil sensitive and he would hurt after shooting the shotgun with a slug.

he now uses an AR in 300 black out and has shot more deer in the few years that he has had it than he had in the previous 20 years of being busted up and shooting the shotguns it doesn't hurt to pull the trigger any more. he also hasn't taken more than one shot on any of those deer.

I know a lot of people get a AR in 300 blackout and run deer rounds in it for youth hunts some also using the 350 legend in an AR for deer also these are very soft recoiling option with adjustable stocks that can fit the kid well 
even if you only load a few rounds in a small magazine it gives them a solid very low recoiling option to shoot deer. 

the 300 blackout isn't overly powerful but with decent shot placement and the right bullet will kill deer fine


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

BadOregon said:


> So you are using the semi auto to hit multiple targets, not just one. Last time I hunted, I was lucky to see even one dang deer, much less a bunch of them. I could see that being useful with multiple tags. Or bird hunting. Only time I ever hunted birds, they flew up in front of me and startled me so bad I didn't hit a one.


 You need more practice hunting and you will experience the opportunity to fire more than one round. 

Your initial question about why someone "needs" a semiautomatic for hunting triggers me because the uninformed think it justifies making semiautomatic guns illegal. The reality is that semiautos are needed for the reasons I listed. The second amendment is not about hunting but about self defense and preventing a tyrannical government.


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## BadOregon (12 mo ago)

I did not know about the softer recoil. That seems like something I should look into. No matter how many times my dad changed the recoil pad or reworked my stock, I ended up with a bruise and sore shoulder. (guess I'm a wimp) He even
custom built me a 20 ga., still bruised me. 
Would type of ammo also soften recoil? He's gone now or I could ask him.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

BadOregon said:


> So you are using the semi auto to hit multiple targets, not just one. Last time I hunted, I was lucky to see even one dang deer, much less a bunch of them. I could see that being useful with multiple tags. Or bird hunting. Only time I ever hunted birds, they flew up in front of me and startled me so bad I didn't hit a one.


I do a lot of wing shooting. I shot a semi auto or pump guns for years. I have only used over and unders the last 15 years. After transitioning to the o/u, I miss far less and have cleaner kills. Both are important to me. 

But I would never think of limiting another from the use of a semi auto.

Just my $.02


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

BadOregon said:


> I did not know about the softer recoil. That seems like something I should look into. No matter how many times my dad changed the recoil pad or reworked my stock, I ended up with a bruise and sore shoulder. (guess I'm a wimp) He even
> custom built me a 20 ga., still bruised me.
> Would type of ammo also soften recoil? He's gone now or I could ask him.


Check into having a mercury tube installed in the stock. I did that for my daughter when she was having recoil issues. It works great. Then shoot whatever load you like.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

BadOregon said:


> I did not know about the softer recoil. That seems like something I should look into. No matter how many times my dad changed the recoil pad or reworked my stock, I ended up with a bruise and sore shoulder. (guess I'm a wimp) He even
> custom built me a 20 ga., still bruised me.
> Would type of ammo also soften recoil? He's gone now or I could ask him.


yes you can also reduce the recoil with ammunition , 20ga target or reduced recoil rounds will do that however they don't make for hard hitting hunting ammo so you need to reduce the range you shoot some.

as nchobbyfarm mentioned a mercury tube in the stock adds weight and as a fluid it dampens more than just a solid weight

an object at rest stays at rest unless acted upon by an outside force
the heavier gun takes more reaction before it starts moving.

my Remington 742 circa 1964 in 30-06 was already a much softer recoiling 30-06 than bolt action 30-06 rifles with it being semi auto (these were developed in 1939 and put on hold till 1950 after the war was over so not new) they were a very popular woods hunting gun in the 1950s through the 80s they quick to the shoulder like a shotgun as they were a scaled down Remington shotgun in their design origin but with hi pressure rotating bolt locking lugs they operated from a 4 round magazine. the most common chambering was 30-06 but they were offered in a wide variety of cartridges. I load for mine and I load to the same velocity as my 308 which is about 8% less velocity don't worry a deer at 100 yards will never know it wasn't a full power load.
it makes the gun extremely soft shooting and you can keep watching the target in the scope for follow up shots. the recoil mostly used up running the action shucking the case out and loading the next one
I shot a nice buck running about 125 yards at my cousins I did miss the first time the buck was running through some pot holed area near the edge of the woods and I was across a small hay field it dropped in a hole as the trigger broke, I took longer aim let it hit flatter ground and hit it on round 2 , i couldn't tell for sure if I had hit it and let it go 2 strides and hit it again this time it started going down it rolled and went to get back up , I hit it again this time it was done for.
yes it cost me a little meat , but 50 more yards to the direction it was turning and it crossed the fence line , i hate chasing deer and I hate it even more when you have to go ask to chase them on some one elses farm. my cousin came over to give me heck for shooting so fast " what is this WWII?" then I showed him my 3 hits in the area about the size of a soft ball. the buck landed about 15 yards into the hay field drove the truck right to it for pick up.
he had been hunting a bolt action since he put down the lever gun 45 years ago if I would have had a spare 742 and 100 rounds of ammo to sell that day I think he would have started shucking out 100s on the spot having missed some deer down in the swamp a fast to shoulder fast on the follow up gun with a heavy bullet was just what he was looking for.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

The simple fact is that using a centerfire rifle -vs- a shotgun and slugs is a significant advantage for hunters making it easier. My home state IN was shotgun only for many years but opened it up to pretty much all centerfire rifles a few years ago. Illinois appears to be heading down this path as well.

Having hunted deer for 50 years now, I wish they would just leave the regs alone and keep the sport more challenging via the old time tested weapon restrictions. It's supposed to be a difficult, challenging sport. Don't get me started on crossbows .......


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

Fishindude said:


> The simple fact is that using a centerfire rifle -vs- a shotgun and slugs is a significant advantage for hunters making it easier. My home state IN was shotgun only for many years but opened it up to pretty much all centerfire rifles a few years ago. Illinois appears to be heading down this path as well.
> 
> Having hunted deer for 50 years now, I wish they would just leave the regs alone and keep the sport more challenging via the old time tested weapon restrictions. It's supposed to be a difficult, challenging sport. Don't get me started on crossbows .......


the issue is they want deer dead , they all but killed the deer drive which was especially well suited to shooting deer with old time tested weapons restrictions , so with a bunch of people sitting in a stand waiting for deer to move on their own well it makes them very shy and nocturnal by 08:30 on opening day 
the DNR wants a quota of deer taken to manage the heard 
they want it done it X hours 
they should lengthen the season but don't so other guns , ammo and xbows are the answer 
other issue is too many horn hunters not enough meat hunters 

and of course the very biggest issue , land access and the not in my back yard crew , moan and groan about deer eating all your stuff and being everywhere but never let anyone in to hunt those deer , you never change the habits of protected deer is you don't stop protecting them.


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## JRHill02 (Jun 20, 2020)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> the issue is they want deer dead , they all but killed the deer drive which was especially well suited to shooting deer with old time tested weapons restrictions , so with a bunch of people sitting in a stand waiting for deer to move on their own well it makes them very shy and nocturnal by 08:30 on opening day
> the DNR wants a quota of deer taken to manage the heard
> they want it done it X hours
> they should lengthen the season but don't so other guns , ammo and xbows are the answer
> ...


Absolutely insightful comments.

First, my apology to Badoregon. I didn't mean to insult him directly - it was more like a tease to a neighbor that came off wrong. I thought it better to let it go for a bit. Now I humble myself. Usually I align to those in the south.... Oops, there I go again 

Back to the subject, deer management problems are profound in a lot of places. So here is a thought: West Virginia vs. EPA. This is not just the issue on the surface. It really begins hitting at unelected officials from the alphabet soup of agencies doing what legislators should be doing b/c they are too busy. This case is at the Fed level. But what about the state level? Unelected state officials establishing Game Management Units because they have a budget for helicopter surveys and can then tell with accuracy what the hunting limits should be this next year? And one badged game cop to cover one of the biggest counties in WA (and he spends the time watching tribal folk and fishermen along the rivers?)? He has a badge an side arm.

The Sheriff's dept has the resources to investigate cattle getting killed in a pasture and having just the backstraps stolen and left in the field. Our Sheriff has been chastised because he investigates our county's problems immediately. He doesn't await the DNR. If they don't make it, tough. DNR sys he's uncooperative. This extends to big cats, etc. I'd love that $ not be collected from us to go to the Fed to instead stay in the state. And I'd love for $ collected from us NOT going to the state would stay in the county. And my county commissioner, who I don't exactly always appreciate will take a phone call and we can talk. There is local involvement and control.

These issues have a long way to go....

BW, I have a few semi .223's. But I like .308. In the trees its a 45-70. Or the Casuall but it really hurts.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

BadOregon said:


> I did not know about the softer recoil. That seems like something I should look into. No matter how many times my dad changed the recoil pad or reworked my stock, I ended up with a bruise and sore shoulder. (guess I'm a wimp) He even
> custom built me a 20 ga., still bruised me.
> Would type of ammo also soften recoil? He's gone now or I could ask him.


Sometimes ammunition does make a difference.


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## Kiamichi Kid (Apr 9, 2009)

JRHill02 said:


> Absolutely insightful comments.
> 
> First, my apology to Badoregon. I didn't mean to insult him directly - it was more like a tease to a neighbor that came off wrong. I thought it better to let it go for a bit. Now I humble myself. Usually I align to those in the south.... Oops, there I go again
> 
> ...


I’ve owned several Freedom Arms 454’s. I carried them whenever I was Bowhunting in Alaska mostly.


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