# 54 years, and still makes minimum wage



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Watch the video - 

He started March 30, 1964. Mr Othea Loggan’s starting salary was $1.15 an hour, the federal minimum wage, but enough, he recalls now, to save up and buy a small house, if you got lucky. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, roughly 40 percent of Americans in the early 1960s stayed in a job for 10 years or longer. Loggan never really intended to stay that long. He was only 18.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/ct-ent-othea-loggan-0831-story.html#


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

After all these years employing him at minimum wage, the owners should be ashamed of themselves.


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## FreeRange (Oct 9, 2005)

SRSLADE said:


> After all these years employing him at minimum wage, the owners should be ashamed of themselves.


I agree. That's not how you treat a good employee.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> After all these years employing him at minimum wage, the owners should be ashamed of themselves.


Why should they pay him more than the job is worth?


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> After all these years employing him at minimum wage, the owners should be ashamed of themselves.


Why?
He was happy doing what he was doing at a job that paid minimum wage....
From the article:
Asked why, after so many years, he never asked management for a less demanding job, why he stayed at the same pancake house so long, Loggan doesn’t register the question, as if those questions hadn’t been there in a long time. Ray Walker said he’s asked Loggan about advancing but “Loggan doesn’t want anything else — he’s said he’s fine where he is.” He said, “I think he views this as a place where he knows people, he’s safe and comfortable.” He said Loggan “was the complete opposite of a Black Panther kind of guy,” never an advocate or rabble rouser. He said that limited schooling “probably helped smooth out his world — I would doubt Loggan really ever dreamed about buying a Cadillac.”


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Why should they pay him more than the job is worth?


Would you give him an extra 1.50 at Xmass? I think not.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

po boy said:


> Why?
> He was happy doing what he was doing at a job that paid minimum wage....
> From the article:
> Asked why, after so many years, he never asked management for a less demanding job, why he stayed at the same pancake house so long, Loggan doesn’t register the question, as if those questions hadn’t been there in a long time. Ray Walker said he’s asked Loggan about advancing but “Loggan doesn’t want anything else — he’s said he’s fine where he is.” He said, “I think he views this as a place where he knows people, he’s safe and comfortable.” He said Loggan “was the complete opposite of a Black Panther kind of guy,” never an advocate or rabble rouser. He said that limited schooling “probably helped smooth out his world — I would doubt Loggan really ever dreamed about buying a Cadillac.”


When you put it that way, it sounds like the good old days down on the plantation.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> When you put it that way, it sounds like the good old days down on the plantation.


Good grief!!
What is this about a plantation?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Would you give him an extra 1.50 at Xmass? *I think not*.


What you think I would do is irrelevant.

You didn't answer the question I asked.
Why should they pay him more than the job is worth?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> When you put it that way, it sounds like the good old days down on the plantation.


We don't care how you do things up North.
This thread is about a man in Chicago.
If you think he deserves more money, you can send it to him.
Nothing is stopping you.


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## ridgerunner1965 (Apr 13, 2013)

I have seen many people work their whole lives for min wage. they just never get ahead. is that their fault? well yes it is. be the best yu can be, show up early and stay late. work harder than everyone else and pretty soon yu may advance.

if you don't then move on.

lots of min wage jobs have politics involved in who advances and who doesn't. about 35 yrs ago I learned sum skills.

skills will get yu where yu want to be.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> We don't care how you do things up North.
> This thread is about a man in Chicago.
> If you think he deserves more money, you can send it to him.
> Nothing is stopping you.


Do you think you speak for the south? I would not be so presumptuous as to think I was qualified to speak as the representative of the north. I can speak to what I see as an injustice. Even then it's just my opinion.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SRSLADE said:


> Do you think you speak for the south? I would not be so presumptuous as to think I was qualified to speak as the representative of the north. I can speak to what I see as an injustice. Even then it's just my opinion.


You presume to speak for Mr. Loggan and judge his employer.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> Do you think you speak for the south?


I think I can get a good consensus.



SRSLADE said:


> I can speak to *what I see as an injustice*.


Feel free to alleviate it with your own funds.
Just don't expect someone else to do something simply because you think it's a problem.

You still haven't answered the question, but I understand why.


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## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Times change. Once upon a time an employee showed faithfulness to their employer and that was rewarded by an employer that looked out for their employees. Employers competed for hard working experienced employees. Sure there were employees that had little skill and were easily replaced.
But in the past 20 years, things changed. Pensions, that often tied employees to a job for a decade or three, gone. When employees were faced with paying experienced, hard working employees more for retention, many chose to accept a constant turnover at low wage. If a dollar could be saved, 20 full time employees with health insurance would be replaced by 40 part time employees with no benefits.
But the new generation understand this. They hold no faithfulness to their employer, are willing to change jobs monthly if they have to work too hard or the hours don't suit them. It seems so universal that employers are willing to accommodate them.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

54 YEARS, let it sink in, a faithful, dedicated employee, is only worth minimum wage and not a penny more??? Hopefully after this story is read by customers, his tips will increase.
How nice of the owner to give the employees his old cast off clothing instead of a raise, what a peach.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

doozie said:


> 54 YEARS, let it sink in, a faithful, dedicated employee, is only worth minimum wage and not a penny more??? Hopefully after this story is read by customers, his tips will increase.
> How nice of the owner to give the employees his old cast off clothing instead of a raise, what a peach.


The owner very well could have written off the used clothing s a charitable donation.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Hiro said:


> You presume to speak for Mr. Loggan and judge his employer.


Yes.


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## big rockpile (Feb 24, 2003)

Our Son was working Construction for less than Minimum Wage. Illegal Latinos came took his Job because they would work for less.

But see this all the time here.

big rockpile


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

SRSLADE said:


> Yes.


I am certain Mr. Loggan is much better off from your righteous indignation. Have you considered he is perfectly content doing what he is doing for what he is getting paid? Do you think you are better than him so you can decide for him what he should be doing? 

I'll leave you with this little anecdote. I live in one of the poorest counties in the Commonwealth of Virginia. There was an older gentleman that lived down the road from me. He had lived in the home he was born in for over 70 years (I don't know precisely) and it was without power or indoor plumbing. Some well intentioned folks thought he needed power and demanded that the local utility run power to his house. Well, you can imagine the headaches that caused. But, everyone that knew him managed to get a local electrician to run wiring and get it where his home wasn't condemned. Yay!!! Problems solved....or not. Then, some of the original do-gooders (who didn't lift a finger to get his home wired) decided he needed plumblng because he was getting water from a nearby church to cook and clean and bathe decided he needed a well. That brought a whole world of problems......he was using an outhouse which you can't do anymore if you have utility delivered power. 

I really don't know where this man ended up other than he was run out of his house that he seemed to be quite content living in without power or indoor plumbing.

Do not try to help someone who doesn't ask or need your help. If someone needs your help, give it freely.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Hiro said:


> I am certain Mr. Loggan is much better off from your righteous indignation. Have you considered he is perfectly content doing what he is doing for what he is getting paid? Do you think you are better than him so you can decide for him what he should be doing?
> 
> I'll leave you with this little anecdote. I live in one of the poorest counties in the Commonwealth of Virginia. There was an older gentleman that lived down the road from me. He had lived in the home he was born in for over 70 years (I don't know precisely) and it was without power or indoor plumbing. Some well intentioned folks thought he needed power and demanded that the local utility run power to his house. Well, you can imagine the headaches that caused. But, everyone that knew him managed to get a local electrician to run wiring and get it where his home wasn't condemned. Yay!!! Problems solved....or not. Then, some of the original do-gooders (who didn't lift a finger to get his home wired) decided he needed plumblng because he was getting water from a nearby church to cook and clean and bathe decided he needed a well. That brought a whole world of problems......he was using an outhouse which you can't do anymore if you have utility delivered power.
> 
> ...


Well said, but I think you meant "if someone needs and ask for your help...."
This man is doing what he is happy doing at the wage he is happy with..
His hourly wage is more than 3 times the minimum wage for wait staff and there are millions of them that work only the hours food is served.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Why should they pay him more than the job is worth?


Because he busses more tables now, and gets then so much cleaner than he used to. The man seems like decent honest guy, takes a day's pay for an honest day's work. Let's not ruin his version of the American Dream.


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## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

I found the story both uplifting and sad. Uplifting in the man's work ethic. Sad that he didn't have the drive to do more. Also sad that his employer didn't do more for him. The man is much more than a busser, the customers love him and that is worth far more than min wage.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

I can now see why my post showing a caring couple driving 900 miles on their own dime and renting a 20 yard roll off dumpster out of their own pocket for some one they never met, then spending a week cleaning trash up for the guy for free, has soo few comments.


I have noticed people seem to ignore or dismiss that which makes them feel uncomfortable...…


I have done many jobs for way less than could have been charged and I have also paid employees way more than needed.....to encourage them, even if they worked some place else and I never saw a return on that encouragement. I want to be free and happy, the wealthy seldom are...…..I will leave those things to some one else.


Most people rarely get the opportunity to see first hand or find what makes for happy life, a abundance of money does not help or insure either of those...…..and in most cases inhibits them. But it is foolish to try and convey those things...one who has never been hungry does not understand it and one who has never had a abundance of money and time does not understand it......people have to see it for themselves to understand it or live it to know it.

Simply stated, the grass is always greener on the other side...…...don't worry, I resigned long ago that its wasted breath to try and change a persons mind, no one can be told, they have to see it for themselves.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

WOW what a pissing contest -- wonder who will win?

All I know is years ago all people got to retire on was a gold watch. We have it so much better now. There is a breaking point if a person makes over a certain amount they have script copays and appointment charges % of charges unless you have part B and D if you make less you get more services free better costs on many drugs and if you qualify companies will send your drugs free.

The middle class is getting a beating you either have to be below the poverty line or make over 70,000 a year (so if you have health problems you have to pay for a lot ) below 70,000 property taxes and increasing prices on everything just whittles away until your pinching pennies.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MO_cows said:


> The man is much more than a busser


Not really.
They pay him based on the job he performs, not on whether or not customers "like" him.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

He said how he treats his customers. He has many regulars. I expect he is rewarded well by his customers.

He seemed happy.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

MO_cows said:


> I found the story both uplifting and sad. Uplifting in the man's work ethic. Sad that he didn't have the drive to do more. Also sad that his employer didn't do more for him. The man is much more than a busser, the customers love him and that is worth far more than min wage.


He was offered better positions and said no. His employer gave employees Christmas bonuses and personally started a retirement program for him.

There were several people mentioned that had worked at this particular restaurant for decades. The owner must be doing something right to get that kind of loyalty.

A good story would be to find out why so many people have stayed at this particular restaurant and stayed in the same low paying job. All I can think is the employees are probably treated with respect and dignity, something more important than money when it comes to job satisfaction.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Before making wild assumptions and blanket statements, perhaps it would be wise to read the whole story again, slowly.
There was much more in there than a simple "he is happy/he is not happy" conclusion.
It took almost 10 years just to get the man to give the interview (for free BTW).
When he did, even then, the answers weren't simple or easy.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

I read the article, and, in it, Mr. Loggan said he LIKES what he's doing, and does not want to change (advance) to another position. Why do we have to argue about HIS choices?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Because someone else always knows better what is good for you, than you.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> Because someone else always knows better what is good for you, than you.


Sad, sad truth.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

nehimama said:


> I read the article, and, in it, Mr. Loggan said he LIKES what he's doing, and does not want to change (advance) to another position. Why do we have to argue about HIS choices?


Because there are some on here that belong in that '' share the wealth'' club. I say if he's happy let it be....


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

doozie said:


> 54 YEARS, let it sink in, a faithful, dedicated employee, is only worth minimum wage and not a penny more??? Hopefully after this story is read by customers, his tips will increase.
> How nice of the owner to give the employees his old cast off clothing instead of a raise, what a peach.


If he thought it a problem he could have moved on after a few years. Not a problem for him? Not a problem for me. Low or no skilled jobs are just not worth that much, no matter how long a person has been doing them.


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

Someone needs to start him a gofundme page, because I won't.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

I don't think anyone said that Mr. Loggan wasn't happy, ever wanted a different job, and certainly never said they knew better than he did what was good for him, I concluded from the posts that many think Mr. Loggan's employer should have rewarded such an excellent employee with raises over the years. It wasn't said in the article that Mr. Loggan turned down any offered raises, correct?


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## 4tu (Jul 24, 2018)

in a world with such problems, this is a nothing burger.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Here we go with the "shoulds" again!


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

nehimama said:


> Here we go with the "shoulds" again!


Isn't that what the discussion is about? Should anyone care about Mr. Loggan, should Mr. Loggan's employers given him raises, etc. 

In fact, most discussions on message boards boil down to "shoulds", don't they?


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## geo in mi (Nov 14, 2008)

This discussion caused me to remember Studs Terkle's book, "Working"

https://libcom.org/files/Working - Studs Terkel.pdf

geo


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Isn't that what the discussion is about? Should anyone care about Mr. Loggan, should Mr. Loggan's employers given him raises, etc.
> 
> In fact, most discussions on message boards boil down to "shoulds", don't they?


Yep, meddlers really "should" tend to their own knitting, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Yep, meddlers really "should" tend to their own knitting, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.


I said nothing of the sort, but you know that...


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

Who has the right to tell others what they "should" do?


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

nehimama said:


> Who has the right to tell others what they "should" do?


Progressives / Socialists think they do.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

nehimama said:


> Who has the right to tell others what they "should" do?


Those who believe in the greater good.
Those who believe you aren't smart enough to make your own choices.
Those who believe inequality is someone else's fault.


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

The article itself questions why, if his employees had few clothes to wear, they didnt get a raise.
Sheesh.
It's a question.
His employer is under no obligation to pay more than minimum wage,it's just if someone works a lifetime for you, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to reward such employees.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Misguided empathy can be unhealthy in itself.
Many times people/groups/agencies use empathy as a guise.
It isn't hard to recognize when empathy is used as an excuse to label and denigrate people and groups one doesn't agree with.
It isn't so much about the have nots but about people who don't feel good about themselves and will target others using their own disillusionment.
There are many liberal policies in recent history that do little more than enslave, breakup and addict families to social programs under the scheme of help, all because of people who thought they knew better.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

doozie said:


> The article itself questions why, if his employees had few clothes to wear, they didnt get a raise.
> Sheesh.
> It's a question.
> His employer is under no obligation to pay more than minimum wage,it's just if someone works a lifetime for you, it wouldn't be out of the ordinary to reward such employees.


Exactly.


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## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

I don’t understand why folks are angry at the business owners. The gentleman isn’t complaining. I mean the article says and quoted him as saying “Why do you want to ask about my working here? I come to work, who cares?”. Really, why worry about what this gentleman has been doing and what he was being paid. He certainly doesn’t care.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

hiddensprings said:


> I don’t understand why folks are angry at the business owners. The gentleman isn’t complaining. I mean the article says and quoted him as saying “Why do you want to ask about my working here? I come to work, who cares?”. Really, why worry about what this gentleman has been doing and what he was being paid. He certainly doesn’t care.


I wish I could "like" this a dozen times.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I don't feel you need permission to do the right thing. It's not telling someone what to do when you're giving them raises, It's the right thing.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Funny the employer has offered the man everything people said they should. 
The guy just said no. They can’t fource him. 
However look closely and you will see his customers reward him and he accepts that. 
He is making in the area of $14 a hour.


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

SRSLADE said:


> I don't feel you need permission to do the right thing. It's not telling someone what to do when you're giving them raises, It's the right thing.


No. YOU "feel" it is the right thing. Virtue signaling possesses no authority on this issue. Find his address and write him a fat check if YOU "feel" it is the right thing.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

GTX63 said:


> Misguided empathy can be unhealthy in itself.
> Many times people/groups/agencies use empathy as a guise.
> It isn't hard to recognize when empathy is used as an excuse to label and denigrate people and groups one doesn't agree with.
> It isn't so much about the have nots but about people who don't feel good about themselves and will target others using their own disillusionment.
> There are many liberal policies in recent history that do little more than enslave, breakup and addict families to social programs under the scheme of help, all because of people who thought they knew better.


It’s exactly the same with unfeeling callousness.


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> It’s exactly the same with unfeeling callousness.


But it is always all about the "feels" isn't it. Logic and reasoning are foreign entities to those who are all about the "fee fees."


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Those people without empathy are called psychopaths, I’m glad I can feel empathy toward others.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Isn't that what the discussion is about? Should anyone care about Mr. Loggan, should Mr. Loggan's employers given him raises, etc.
> 
> In fact, most discussions on message boards boil down to "shoulds", don't they?


The article was written to create a victim, and a villain.

I saw him as a solid guy, working to support his family. He seems to know his mind, and could have explored options if he'd wanted.

The long tenure of the bussers there seems very unusual. 

Me personally, if it was my restaurant, I think I would reward quality, and being there that long they must be doing a good job. That said, I don't fault the owner for not raising it. It is a market economy, and he has a business to run, and a payroll to make. His call.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

geo in mi said:


> This discussion caused me to remember Studs Terkle's book, "Working"
> 
> https://libcom.org/files/Working - Studs Terkel.pdf
> 
> geo


I think I read that in the early 80's.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

He should have fired the employee years ago...if the bird will not fly, boot it from the nest.


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> Those people without empathy are called psychopaths, I’m glad I can feel empathy toward others.


Liberal "empathy" is generally attached to someone else's pocketbook. Empathy balanced by reason is the healthy alternative.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Irish Pixie said: ↑
> Those people without empathy are called *psychopaths*, I’m glad I can feel empathy toward others.


Psychopaths are often quite good at faking emotions.
It's how they manipulate people while pretending they are somehow superior.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Those people without empathy are called psychopaths, I’m glad I can feel empathy toward others.


Do you feel enough empathy to send the man an extra twenty bucks a week? Or should someone else empathize with him?


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

Sheesh, the dude is bussing tables. Last I checked, that is minimum wage work. Those jobs were intended for kids to buy gas and have fun money and for part timers to earn a little extra income. They were never intended to be life long careers, this guy just happened to choose that path, which seems ridiculous. He obviously wasn't too upset about the money either or he could have moved on to a zillion other jobs in the Chicago area. Don't hate on the employer. Running a small restaurant is a tough business and the owner would be lucky to be making much more than average wages himself.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

The guy doesn’t make minimum wage. He makes around$14 a hour.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Sounds like the guy would not cash a check you sent him or would return to sender any cash...…...apparently he is happy and has all he wants. 

I salute being happy and content....more power to him.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

This article is an opinion piece and the writer is entitled to his own opinion. He is only looking at it from his viewpoint only though. I have read all the posts so far and they are all valid too. One thing I havent seen mentioned is the other two busboys employees. One for 15 years and one for 38 years and counting. Now Mr Logan is certainly entitled to do whatever he wants. Most here are acting like its an anomaly. If it is a one off then why are there (at least) two more busboys that have over 15 years employment at the same store?

Could it be that its not as bad as it seems?

Maybe the employer really does care and treats his people right? 

Or do we just have three career busboys at the same place? *Thats not likely*. There is something else that none of us are not seeing here.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

mreynolds said:


> This article is an opinion piece and the writer is entitled to his own opinion. He is only looking at it from his viewpoint only though. I have read all the posts so far and they are all valid too. One thing I havent seen mentioned is the other two busboys employees. One for 15 years and one for 38 years and counting. Now Mr Logan is certainly entitled to do whatever he wants. Most here are acting like its an anomaly. If it is a one off then why are there (at least) two more busboys that have over 15 years employment at the same store?
> 
> Could it be that its not as bad as it seems?
> 
> ...


I think what some are overlooking is a man content with where and who he is. I'm not a wealthy man, never earned enough to break what the government dubs "poverty level" but am quite content with my lot in life. I have food in the pantry, liquor in the cabinet, enough cash flow to keep my bills paid, a gorgeous wonderful wife, numerous very good freinds and a fine dog, this guy seems to truly understand the real values in life.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I think what some are overlooking is a man content with where and who he is. I'm not a wealthy man, never earned enough to break what the government dubs "poverty level" but am quite content with my lot in life. I have food in the pantry, liquor in the cabinet, enough cash flow to keep my bills paid, a gorgeous wonderful wife, numerous very good freinds and a fine dog, this guy seems to truly understand the real values in life.


And 2 cats


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I think what some are overlooking is a man content with where and who he is. I'm not a wealthy man, never earned enough to break what the government dubs "poverty level" but am quite content with my lot in life. I have food in the pantry, liquor in the cabinet, enough cash flow to keep my bills paid, a gorgeous wonderful wife, numerous very good freinds and a fine dog, this guy seems to truly understand the real values in life.


I think that was the closest comment to the truth.
He is *content *not necessarily happy about his life, but content with it. His son said he never complained about anything. The day he got on the bus to work, it sounded like he'd rather have been at his aunt's funeral and wasn't _*happy*_ about it, but went to work anyway. He was content with doing what he could.

Last night on the news, they were talking about "job shaming" a few celebrities that had been found working in ordinary jobs, like busboys in a restaurant after their entertainment careers went flat.
It seemed cruel to try to embarrass someone for doing what they could to put food on the table and that's exactly how one of them put it. I think he used to be on 'The Cosby Show'.

That's one of the things I got from the OP's article, how uncomfortable this man was being put on the spot like that.
I don't know what he thinks, and apparently very few do as well including his employer. But being able to hold the same job for 54 years, no matter what the pay or position, is something very few can claim - even the top CEO's in this country. 

That IS something to be proud of and maybe that's what he thinks too, who knows?
He probably WOULD be happier if he made more money for his efforts but he raised his family in spite of it all.
THAT'S something he should be proud of, after all his son is a cop in one of the most dangerous cities in America and HE is surviving too.

We each have to make our own way in this world and some paths are harder than others.
I think this man's story is a unique one to celebrate AND contemplate this past Labor Day, where we honor the worker.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Psychopaths are often quite good at faking emotions.
> It's how they manipulate people while pretending they are somehow superior.


Nope. Psychopaths don't pretend anything, they completely believe they are superior to other people due to the personality disorder.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

macmad said:


> Liberal "empathy" is generally attached to someone else's pocketbook. Empathy balanced by reason is the healthy alternative.


And utter callousness is generally attached to conservatives who try to to cut education, healthcare, and food programs for poor families. 

I agree that empathy should be balanced by reason, but it seems to be one sided.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Psychopaths don't pretend anything, they completely believe they are superior to other people due to the personality disorder.


The emotions are still fake whether they "believe" it or not.
Their delusions don't make the emotions nor their supposed superiority real.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The emotions are still fake whether they "believe" it or not.
> Their delusions don't make the emotions nor their supposed superiority real.


Nope again. That's not how a personality disorder works, it's not a delusion to a psychopath, it is their reality. But you know more than everyone else, including psychiatrists that specialize in psychopathy, so feel free to go on another ten posts trying in vain to prove your point.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Nope again. That's not how a personality disorder works, it's not a delusion to a psychopath


You just want to pick a fight, like you do with nearly everyone about everything, every day. 


Irish Pixie said:


> But you know more than everyone else


You should get some original material.
This routine is boring and you've done it to death.



Irish Pixie said:


> feel free to go on another ten posts trying in vain to prove your point.


You prove my points for me.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You just want to pick a fight, *like you do with nearly everyone about everything, every day. *


From the poster who has almost three times the number of posts she has and has been on the forum less years. You are the perfect example of what you accuse her of.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> You are the perfect example of what you accuse her of.


I'm not surprised you'd say that, even though it's completely false.

You play the same daily game yourself, as I've often pointed out to you.

You're doing it now, and pretending no one can see it.

Next will come the denials, and then the victim routine.

Save if for someone who hasn't seen the act.



> painterswife said: ↑
> *She is poking* other posters insteading of debating. Not good debate form.


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Maybe Angie had it right and some members shouldn't have been reinstated ?


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

painterswife said:


> From the poster who has almost three times the number of posts she has and has been on the forum less years. You are the perfect example of what you accuse her of.


OOhhhhh Bear. Now you are in trouble. Pixie's little sidekick has arrived and now we are all in for a tongue lashing.  I am reminded of one of the Great Levin's famous quotes ...


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

macmad said:


> OOhhhhh Bear. Now you are in trouble. Pixie's little sidekick has arrived and now we are all in for a tongue lashing.  I am reminded of one of the Great Levin's famous quotes ...


What is the purpose of this post? Was the sole intent to denigrate another poster, it certainly wasn't to add anything constructive to the topic.


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

Ridicule for the sophmoric actions of one poster coming in and throwing out a, "naner naner boo boo" comment in defense of her liberal progressive sidekick. Next question.


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

My bad though for the non-constructive zinger in response to a non-constructive comment. Had to balance the force.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

macmad said:


> Ridicule for the sophmoric actions of one poster coming in and throwing out a, "naner naner boo boo" comment in defense of her liberal progressive sidekick. Next question.


You seem to be doing exactly what I did. BFF ridiculed Pixie and I responded. Good job in following in my footsteps.


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

painterswife said:


> You seem to be doing exactly what I did. BFF ridiculed Pixie and I responded. Good job in following in my footsteps.


So you admit it. Good, that is the first step to recovery. Don't get the unders all wadded up. Most of this is in good fun. What are forums for anyway? Well ... beside decent homesteading information that is.


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

What would life be like if a conservative can't poke at a liberal, and the other way around?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

macmad said:


> So you admit it. Good, that is the first step to recovery. Don't get the unders all wadded up. Most of this is in good fun. What are forums for anyway? Well ... beside decent homesteading information that is.


I agree I responded to another posters ridicule. I don't agree with your characterization. I don't expect you to agree with mine.


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

Back on topic. The dude has been working a tip job for the past 54 years. He has been making out.


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## macmad (Dec 22, 2012)

painterswife said:


> I agree I responded to another posters ridicule. I don't agree with your characterization. I don't expect you to agree with mine.


That is fine. I don't feel we have to agree. Variety is the spice of life. Our perspectives on life are surely very different in many areas.


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## Twp.Tom (Dec 29, 2010)

Maybe this restaurant has great food? And the employer feeds the staff,grattis? I know someone that works for a tech company in Denmark, and has a part time job preparing lunch for the employees(small firm). She also gets to partake in lunch too. I think it's a good gig-fair pay,dental, optical,Awesome healthcare- and a really good meal every day*


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Nope. Psychopaths don't pretend anything, they completely believe they are superior to other people due to the personality disorder.


Honest question here.... Do you happen to know what causes normal people to think they are superior to psychopaths?


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Honest question here.... Do you happen to know what causes normal people to think they are superior to psychopaths?


Why don't you tell me?


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Irish Pixie said:


> Why don't you tell me?


Because I don't know. That was why I asked.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> What is the purpose of this post? Was the *sole intent to denigrate another poster*, *it certainly wasn't to add anything constructive* to the topic.


Just like PW's which you "liked" 

Now some facts:
https://brocku.ca/brock-news/2015/03/psychopaths-mimic-emotions-very-accurately-brock-study/
*Psychopaths mimic emotions very accurately: Brock study*


> " “He was always so friendly, cheerful, polite.” “I don’t believe it – he was such a nice guy! How could he do something like that?”
> 
> These are common reactions when finding out that someone we know, who’s seemingly empathetic, warm, and supportive, turns out to be psychopathic.
> 
> But new research by Brock psychologist Angela Book shows that psychopaths are able to display emotions they don’t feel to the extent where everyone around them is convinced that those emotions are real."


http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/psychotic-affective-disorders/hidden-suffering-psychopath



> Despite their outward arrogance, *psychopaths feel inferior to others and know they are stigmatized by their own behavior*.
> 
> Some psychopaths are superficially adapted to their environment and are even popular, but they feel they must carefully hide their true nature because it will not be acceptable to others. This leaves psychopaths with a difficult choice: adapt and participate in an empty, unreal life, or do not adapt and live a lonely life isolated from the social community. They see the love and friendship others share and feel dejected knowing they will never be part of it.
> 
> ...


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> painterswife said: ↑
> You seem to be doing exactly what I did. BFF *ridiculed* Pixie and I responded. Good job in following in my footsteps.


You seem confused.



painterswife said:


> I agree I responded to another posters ridicule. I don't agree with your characterization. I don't expect you to agree with mine.


And there's the denial I said would come. 
You're quite predictable.
It's the same thing every day.
No "ridicule", just reality.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

"Psychopaths tend to do these:
1. Contradictions / contrariness
2. Tell STORIES nonstop
3. Conversations shoot aimlessly
4. Robotic detachment, unemotional reactions
5. Pose Odd questions
6. Scapegoating & false crediting
7. Moves in close very quickly
8. “Pity me” ploy for all occasions
9. Hot-cold-hot attention to you
10. Many “misunderstandings” "

https://brocku.ca/brock-news/2015/03/psychopaths-mimic-emotions-very-accurately-brock-study/


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## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You seem confused.
> 
> 
> And there's the denial I said would come.
> ...




Talk about predictable


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> What is the purpose of this post? Was the sole intent to denigrate another poster, it certainly wasn't to add anything constructive to the topic.


It was kind of funny,


Twp.Tom said:


> Maybe this restaurant has great food? And the employer feeds the staff,grattis? I know someone that works for a tech company in Denmark, and has a part time job preparing lunch for the employees(small firm). She also gets to partake in lunch too. I think it's a good gig-fair pay,dental, optical,Awesome healthcare- and a really good meal every day*


I used to work for a Swedish company, Flakt. I worked in the US. We had a company newspaper and they interviewed a longtime employee, in Husqvarna I think, he said "Flakt is a great place to work if you don't expect too much.". We could not believe they published that.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Totally off topic but I find this hilarious, set to the tune of Paul Simon's "Slip Sliding Away"

Bing Binging away
Bing Binging away
The more your desparation
The more you're Bing Binging awaayy. 

LOL


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> Nope. Psychopaths don't pretend anything, they completely believe they are superior to other people due to the personality disorder.


 That's because in most cases they are in some ways...…..that's what the military special forces looks for is high functioning self regulated psychopaths......they spend a great deal of time finding and training these people for elite positions.


In the civilian world, they are usually among the more successful crowd...…….in business or at jobs.

People tend to fixate on the Hollywood dogma of a psychopath as Hannibal Lecture or real life Dahmer types, while those violent/crazy ones are only a minute portion of these people.


Think of start trek and think of the Vulcans and that is most of the large psychopath population in this country.


Once again you can thank Hollywood and the media for distorting a definition and a group of people for profit.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

shawnlee said:


> That's because in most cases they are in some ways...…..that's what the military special forces looks for is high functioning self regulated psychopaths......they spend a great deal of time finding and training these people for elite positions.
> 
> 
> In the civilian world, they are usually among the more successful crowd...…….in business or at jobs.
> ...


Wow. Just wow. The highlighted portion is just the tip of the iceberg, I don't know where to even start... so I won't.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Totally off topic


No surprises there.
You're just upset because I posted actual data that refuted your claims and proved you were wrong. 



Irish Pixie said:


> The more your *desparation*
> The more you're Bing Binging awaayy.





> *des·per·a·tion*
> */ˌdespəˈrāSH(ə)n/*
> noun
> 
> 1.a state of despair, typically one which results in *rash or extreme behavior*:


There's nothing "rash or extreme" about being able to substantiate one's claims, but it could apply to making up silly songs that add nothing of substance to the topic, and are only intended to denigrate another member. 

Some complain about that sort of thing 



> Irish Pixie said: ↑
> What is the purpose of this post? Was the sole intent to denigrate another poster, it certainly wasn't to add anything constructive to the topic.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Totally off topic but I find this hilarious, set to the tune of Paul Simon's "Slip Sliding Away"
> 
> Bing Binging away
> Bing Binging away
> ...


Maybe you can post a recording. I'm not getting it.


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## Twp.Tom (Dec 29, 2010)

*****


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I wanted to hear IP sing it.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I wanted to hear IP sing it.


You really, really don't want to hear me sing it. I could _try_ it in interpretive dance, but I'm afraid I couldn't convey the true meaning. I guess you'll just have to bing it.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I wanted to hear IP sing it.


My toes hurt so I'm stuck in a chair for a bit, and I'm bored, so I actually tried to put up a recording of me singing it, but HT doesn't accept audio or video.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> My toes hurt so I'm stuck in a chair for a bit, and I'm bored, so I actually tried to put up a recording of me singing it, but HT doesn't accept audio or video.


YouTube it


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Irish Pixie said:


> I'm bored, so I actually tried to put up a recording of me singing it, but HT doesn't accept audio or video.


Sometimes the Admin/Mod squad is merciful to us. 

No one wants to hear me sing either, lol.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

You can thank ibuprofen too.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> I wanted to hear IP sing it.


I really wanted to hear an answer to my question too, but have a feeling thats not going to happen either. All I got was "why don't you tell me?".


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Sorry to hear about your toes , what happened ?


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