# My Homesteading Adventure Begins!



## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Hi Everyone! 

It has begun! And by that I mean I have started my homesteading adventure! Woot woot! 

I have been looking for about three years for a 10+ acre property within an hour commute of Philadelphia for under $300,000. My realtor thought I was nuts. My family thought I was nuts. My friends thought I was nuts. Pretty much everyone thought a) it couldn't be done and b) I was nuts. Well...in the last week of October, I found a foreclosed horse farm in Chester County, PA for $220,000!

The property is 10.3 acres of abandoned horse pasture including a huge bank barn, 3 bedroom farmhouse built in 1845, a outbuilding, a two seater outhouse, and a creek running through it all. It's in a top rated school district which is awesome. The commute to work will be just over an hour, which is a little far but so worth it. The property is two+ acres wide and about 5 acres long. 

The buildings are in great shape with only minor structural repairs needed. The farmhouse needs $50,000 worth of renovations, like a new kitchen, full bath, half bath, an addition needs a gut job, insulation in the attic, and paint throughout. The floors are level, original, and in great shape. We plan to refinish them. The barn needs probably $10,000 in repairs such as stone work, new garage door, and some minor facia pieces need replacing. The outbuilding (tractor garage) is near perfect with just a few minor cinematic repairs. 

The land is overgrown pasture with a creek in the middle. It slopes gently down 30' in elevation over the course of three acres on either side of the creek. There is electric fencing surrounding the property with paddocks already pole'd out. It needs a lot of work but not crazy amounts. 

I will post our journey, like using a private lender to get hard money or things to watch out for in old farmhouses, as I move along. Plus I will post my overall plan for the farm. Please follow along and let your ideas, advice, comments flow freely! 

~ Brian 

P.S. I need a farm name! 








Main farmhouse








Large bank barn








Overgrown pastures








Kitchen with old cook stove


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## Hitch (Oct 19, 2016)

Looks like a great property! Good luck with the renovations, it'll be worth it in the end


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Love the cast iron stove! 
Thanks for the pics! 
Lot of work ahead of you, but I'm sure you'll be rewarded. 10 acres of heaven! Mmmm....
Nothing beats getting back to nature and after a hectic day in town, you'll appreciate coming home to a quiet idyllic homestead (especially on weekends). 
All the best!


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Let me know if you need old repair pieces, as in wood, or for the cookstove. I have some left and come across other parts and pieces at auctions. 
Oh you wonder how that helps you. Well I live in York County, and work in Lancaster (Rohrerstown). I go to auctions etc and get scrap metal from many folks, including parts to old cookstoves. 
I was just going through a plastic tub last night filled with electrical parts and pieces, such as brand new junction boxes etc. Of course instead of scrapping them I kept them, because someone will eventually need them. There is also good paint brushes, screwdrivers etc in the box


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

beowoulf90 said:


> Let me know if you need old repair pieces, as in wood, or for the cookstove. I have some left and come across other parts and pieces at auctions.
> Oh you wonder how that helps you. Well I live in York County, and work in Lancaster (Rohrerstown). I go to auctions etc and get scrap metal from many folks, including parts to old cookstoves.
> I was just going through a plastic tub last night filled with electrical parts and pieces, such as brand new junction boxes etc. Of course instead of scrapping them I kept them, because someone will eventually need them. There is also good paint brushes, screwdrivers etc in the box


Thanks beowoulf! As of now, a friend is going to take the cook stove for his cabin. I will let you know if I need anything since you aren't that far from me. Any recommendations for tractor dealers between me and you?


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

On Monday, I have my renovation loan Inspection. Basically, with a renovation loan the lender inspects the house before hand to get a baseline. Hopefully it all goes well. 

Here are some more pictures:







Original parlor 








Barn interior








Room above the parlor


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## ForestToFarm (Feb 28, 2016)

kilgrosh said:


> On Monday, I have my renovation loan Inspection. Basically, with a renovation loan the lender inspects the house before hand to get a baseline. Hopefully it all goes well.
> 
> Here are some more pictures:
> View attachment 57805
> ...


In that first pic of this post the walls look very thick at the door jam. Is it log frame behind the sheet rock or plaster or whatever that is? I knew a guy who had lived in a family home that had been past down over the generations. They decided to remodel a bedroom that was on the interior of the house. As they uncovered the walls they discovered it had originally been a log cabin that had been added onto/expanded over the years. Know body knew the logs were inside the walls. It was an awesome discovery.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

The walls are stone a foot and half thick. Log homes were used as temporary until the main house was finished. Around here there are many quarries and field stones for use in homebuilding. 

Down the road we would like to add a master bath which entails drilling through that stone. Fun times ahead!!!


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

kilgrosh said:


> Thanks beowoulf! As of now, a friend is going to take the cook stove for his cabin. I will let you know if I need anything since you aren't that far from me. Any recommendations for tractor dealers between me and you?



I have no recommendations for tractors. The only place I could get parts for the MF is gone. Messicks and Landis Brothers, both in Lancaster County are where I go if I need to find typical tractor supplies. Which is rare since mine MF has been sitting for the last 3-5 years.. One of the best resources for anything farm related is http://www.lancasterfarming.com/

You can also get a printed copy delivered weekly. Also check out your local auctions for other items you may want. or look in the paper mentioned above. There is an auction you could go to almost every day if you wanted to. Some are more farm related than others, but they all will have something of interest..


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## shaky6 (May 15, 2015)

I'm jelly. I want to start over in a better local. Get an orange tractor to start off with, an HST model. 38hp at least if you can swing it. They have some good finance options right now. You'll be pleased with the quality over the green plastic ones.


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## shaky6 (May 15, 2015)

kilgrosh said:


> The walls are stone a foot and half thick.......
> Down the road we would like to add a master bath which entails drilling through that stone. Fun times ahead!!!


Hey, not such a big deal! Rent an SDS Max (or a standard spline drive) rotary hammer drill and get a couple core bits big enough diameter for the piping you plan to route through. You'll be done in a few hours. If we're talking inch and a half piping, you might not even need the core bit and a standard masonry bit in that diameter could work.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

shaky6 said:


> Hey, not such a big deal! Rent an SDS Max (or a standard spline drive) rotary hammer drill and get a couple core bits big enough diameter for the piping you plan to route through. You'll be done in a few hours. If we're talking inch and a half piping, you might not even need the core bit and a standard masonry bit in that diameter could work.


I agree!
I have one of those Bosch 1-5/8" SDS Max rotary hammer drills...sweetest tool I have. With a 4 flute bit, it goes through concrete like butter. Takes a little longer through rock, but it still motors. German made...fine tool. 
I don't have a gun, so in lieu of one, I call my Bosch, "My Little Friend". 
Although, it isn't so little...
Got lucky...back in the day, Home Depot, of all places, used to have a daily auction online, and the Bosch came up for bidding...
If you got 1-1/2' of rock wall all around, it might be worthwhile to have SDS Max on your wish-list of tools to own. Our rental place is pretty reasonable, but a pain to get and return. I factor in time to get it, and return it, plus gas...in the end, I've just bought tools I use more than once. The big upside, is I don't feel rushed to complete a job...and more often than not, I find myself needing a tool for several days.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Thanks for the tip on the Bosch and drilling ideas. I will definitely check for deals on tools. I already have an extensive list going! 

I saw the Kubota financing deals too. Problem is I won't be buying one until late spring after renovations are complete. 

I had my renovation loan inspector walk through this morning. He was huge wealth of knowledge on what needs to be done to get refinanced into a conventional loan. My design plan has changed a bit from his suggestions.

I went with a hard money lender because conventional banks, even the ag ones, wouldn't lend on the property. It has been a huge learning experience but so far a great one. I will post a little later about it for everyone's benefit.


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

That's a sweet cook stove !


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

It is Fishindude! A buddy of mine has already laid claim to it. In return I might need use of his tri-axle dump truck filled with gravel for the driveway. 

Anybody have ideas for the lower level of the bank barn? Can I dig out the bottom dirt to make more height? What about layout of stalls or pens? It has electric and water already as there was a horse washing room with a hot water heater. 

I plan on raising rabbits, pigs, ducks, chickens, and maybe just maybe a beef cow or feeder lambs.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

kilgrosh said:


> It is Fishindude! A buddy of mine has already laid claim to it. In return I might need use of his tri-axle dump truck filled with gravel for the driveway.


No idea why you would part with a stove like that...even if I never used it, I would keep it as a museum piece...put a counter on it or something and repurpose it. 

Finding the footings on that barn would be my first order of business. Would let one know how deep they could dig down (taking into account the frost level depth for your area). 
It looks like the barn needs a total reno...I'd rip out all the crap, seal/mortar the walls, make sure posts have proper footings, and beef up beams, if necessary. 
If foundation is solid, I'd get after roof, and see that it is good shape, both structurally and weather tight. A good roof will protect whatever work you do below.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

The stove takes up too much space on the kitchen and isn't useful for my purposes. My friend will use it as a stove in his mountain cabin. 

You bring up good points on the barn. I have a barn restoration contact that I plan on having come over to assess the structure. I am hopeful that I can get some use out of it. If not, it will be torn down


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

kilgrosh said:


> The stove takes up too much space on the kitchen and isn't useful for my purposes. My friend will use it as a stove in his mountain cabin.
> 
> You bring up good points on the barn. I have a barn restoration contact that I plan on having come over to assess the structure. I am hopeful that I can get some use out of it. If not, it will be torn down


Good call! 
I've seen too many homes that should have been tear downs, yet the owners cobble it together...they spent way more on restoration than if they built new. 
And the restoration is half *****. 
I do hope your barn is salvageable though. Some of those old builds were built by craftsmen (tenon and mortise joints). That the foundation can be repaired/sistered, and the superstructure (big timber) has some life in it. 
If not, hopefully, there is some reclaimable timber in it. My old home (new build) had reclaimed douglas fir flooring from old warehouses that were torn down. While I did find DF flooring a tad soft, I would love to have big timber features in my home.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

If I did have to tear it down, I would use all the stone and wood to build the next barn. I don't want to tear it down but I don't want to throw money at it for the next 30 years just to get it functional. 

I'm still waiting the bank to sign the deed and set a settlement date!! (Insert words and comments that would make you go to confession) We were supposed to settle last Friday, then Monday, then this coming Monday, and now we are hoping to settle before 2017!! It is very frustrating having to wait on others to move forward.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

*Getting Financing - Options*

There are several options for getting financing for your future homestead. By financing, I mean lending institutions & banks. You can always borrow money from family (check IRS gifting rules), pool money with friends/investors, or buy for cash, if you have the money. 

You can get a conventional mortgage through a regular bank. As long as the property is under 10 acres, you shouldn't have a problem when you have 20% for the down payment. Since many homesteads, at least for my area, are well over $300,000, coming up with $60,000 for a down payment plus closing costs can be daunting. Also, for Pennsylvania, if your property is over 10 acres a regular bank won't lend on the property. 

The next option is an ag lender or farm bank. These are great sources of knowledge on farm properties. Farm Credit is in PA and the loan officer has been awesome. Farm Credit can easily lend on a property over 10 acres, if you have 20-25% down. They also have stricter rules on the livability, usage, and LTV ratios for your property. 

Another option is using a hard money lender. These are the private lenders that finance construction and development projects with short term loans. Their rates are triple the regular mortgage rate. They have the least stringent lending guidelines and very short terms, 6 to 12 months.

*My Method*

Here is what I did to acquire my future homestead. This method might not work for you, but just keep it in mind when you are seeking financing. First, think outside the realm of normal sources of money. Second, don't be ashamed of asking for help in getting money. Third, make sure the numbers work out before accepting any loans. 

When my farm came on the market, I had 4 days to secure financing and make an offer. My Farm Credit Loan officer, Dean Loux of Farm Credit Mid-Atlantic, told me upfront that he would need at least two weeks to get me approved because the farmhouse was livable but not realistically livable. I grabbed my phone and called everyone I knew that had money, used money daily in their course of business, or was involved in finances. I was referred to a hard money lender that specializes in large properties (I am in the middle of horse country - Belmont Stakes take place only an hour from me) and unique developments. 

I never had worked with a hard money lender but it was a way for me to get my financing. I sat down with the loan officer, Patrick Heller of Direct Lending Partners, and we started looking at the numbers. The property was $220,000 + closing costs and needed about $50,000 in repairs. The after repair value (ARV) was estimated/appraised at $425,000, but I like to be conservative and based my numbers on $400,000 ARV. The loan is costing $2,900 per month to carry...yes thats a lot, bear with me here.

Purchase Price: $220,000
Closing Costs: $15,000
Renovations: $50,000 
Loan Cost (6 months): $18,000
*TOTAL: * $303,000
*ARV:* $400,000
*80/20 LTV*: $320,000

At the end pf the renovations, I will refinance with Farm Credit (already have it in motion with Dean) and pay off all of the previous loans. I borrow $45,000 from my parents as a bridge loan (promissory note and everything) to be repaid after refinancing which will cover any unforeseen large expenses. I have also put up $50,000 of my money for the main renovations portion, which I borrowed from my 401k. When all said and done, I will have repaid all of the loans (hard money, parents, my 401k...in that order) back and created almost $100,000 in equity. :dance:

_Notes: Having great credit and a steady job go a long way in making this situation work. My goal is to be finished in 2 months thus reducing my loan cost to $6,000. I had my two lenders already talk to each other so they both knew what was going on. The renovations are to get me out of the short term loan and into a conventional loan, not make a dream house out of a 150 year old farmhouse. The dream portion will come over the next several years. I don't plan on farming full time until I leave my current job in 15 years, so I am okay with having a large mortgage right now. I do not mind risk, but I am not everyone._

It might not be for everyone but her money lenders are an option. They are stressful, plenty of what-ifs scenarios, and still a gamble like any loan. I highly encourage you to look at all options and find the one that best fits your situation. Stay tuned for more details about working with a foreclosed property, renovations, and maintaining your sanity through it all!


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

kilgrosh said:


> *Getting Financing - Options*
> 
> There are several options for getting financing for your future homestead. By financing, I mean lending institutions & banks. You can always borrow money from family (check IRS gifting rules), pool money with friends/investors, or buy for cash, if you have the money.
> 
> ...


Geesh, from your own stash, and your parents bridge loan, you have 36% down...would think most banks/Farm Credit Unions would jump at that. 
Cut out the shark loan. 
Then, you can take your time making home 'livable'. I have no idea what is required to make your new home livable, but I'm sure you know, time and money estimates are just that, estimates...lol. I've done this sort of thing twice, and in both cases, my time and money were double or more of what I estimated. Hate to see you get stuck in a shark loan for a extended period of time. Those blood suckers are hard to get out of, if your max'd out. 
And when you say livable, is the house condemned? Up here, if it has an occupancy permit, no matter the condition (livable or not), one can get a typical mortgage. 


In my present situation, I had to put down 50%, as my property was a bare lot. That sucked, but my goal is to have no mortgage at all, so in the end, it is for the best. I had to go through a Credit Union as the big banks wanted to charge me non-mortgage rates (personal loan rate of 8-9%). I balked at that! So, now that I have a fully serviced lot, and these same big banks are coming after me....lol. They want to lend me money. No idea how they found out I've improved my lot, but whatever...Once I get an occupancy permit for my bunker shack, then I'll be golden, as my loan to assessed property value will be around 25% or less. 
Kilgrosh - I know you are obviously aware given your research on the matter, but up here, a bare lot requires 50% down, IF you want a decent interest rate (mortgage rates). You can put less down for a bare lot, but banks up here want 'private loan' rates (8-20%). A place with a permitted house, one just has to put about 20% down (5% down with CHMC mortgage insurance). 

At any rate, all the best...hope it all works out. One huge bonus for folks down south is you get write off interest paid, whereas we cannot. If you sell your home down the road, do you guys have to pay capital gains tax? Up here, no matter the appreciation in home value, we don't have to pay any tax on selling our primary residence. In some cases, especially in the city, folks who bought in the early 80's are sitting on lottery money (back then, a home was 100-200k, now they are worth $2 million or more). I still remember a dude who I worked with at 7-Eleven of all places, who managed to buy a city home. He worked his touche off at minimum wage! I'm sure he is sitting pretty right about now.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

melli said:


> Then, you can take your time making home 'livable'....And when you say livable, is the house condemned? Up here, if it has an occupancy permit, no matter the condition (livable or not), one can get a typical mortgage.
> 
> ....
> 
> Kilgrosh - I know you are obviously aware given your research on the matter, but up here, a bare lot requires 50% down, IF you want a decent interest rate (mortgage rates). You can put less down for a bare lot, but banks up here want 'private loan' rates (8-20%). A place with a permitted house, one just has to put about 20% down (5% down with CHMC mortgage insurance).


I looked at taking my money plus my parents to get a normal loan but my parents need the money back as soon as possible. Its part of their retirement investments and they don't want it tied up for too long in my house, which I totally understand and agree with. As for livable, technically the house is livable, as in functioning bathroom, kitchen, heat, water, and sewer. Its not livable for my wife or two young boys though. I would have loved to renovate the home over time and kept the mortgage way down doing so. 

I plan on getting out of the hard money loan as quickly as possible. They even recommended I start the refinance process as soon as the kitchen is ready to install. They are just as interest in getting their money back as I am in getting out from under them! Thankfully I do not have to get a Use & Occupancy certification in my township which can hold up the project.

In the U.S., if you own your house as a primary residence for more than two years, you do not pay taxes on the first $250,000 in gains ($500,000 if married). Many people I know of have purchased flips/REOs, renovated them while living in them over a two year period, and then sold them without paying taxes on the profits. 

The farm bank I am using (Farm Credit) requires 25% down on bare land, I believe. I never got that far because all the useable land around here is bought by developers and the crappy land (i.e. giant rock pile of trees or swamp land) isn't worth the money.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

I hear you...I just had a bad experience with 'hard money loan' as you put it. Wasn't that I defaulted, but one thing led to another and four years later I paid them off (20%+ back in the 80's). I couldn't believe how much 'real' money I gave them for the loan. Heck, I look at my pathetic mortgage loan and groan at how much I pay in interest every month. That is dead money to me...that is money I'm giving away. 
The hard money lender may say they want their money back, but I suspect they want to squeeze you for as long as possible....that is their business model...lol


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

There is a tv show that is on one of the Do-it-yourself channels that has a guy the restores/remodels barns in Chester County, PA.. If I recall correctly his name was Steve.

Anyway, the point i was trying to get at was, they may be able to help find financing or have suggestions on who to talk to..

You can always call Restore &#8217;N More in Manheim, (251 West Stiegel Street, P.O. Box 128, Manheim, PA 17545 717-664-7575 PA009613)
They tend to be expensive, but their work is quality and the restoration is done right..


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

beowoulf90 said:


> You can always call Restore âN More in Manheim, (251 West Stiegel Street, P.O. Box 128, Manheim, PA 17545 717-664-7575 PA009613)
> They tend to be expensive, but their work is quality and the restoration is done right..


Thanks for the referral. Manheim isn't too far from the farm. There are several barn restoration companies near the farm because of the old homesteads being converted into usable houses. 

On a positive note, my GC/roofer explained that the barn roof is sheathed already so replacing the roofing material wouldn't be difficult. My new concern is some of the fascia boards and siding has deteriorated so much that when we start the roof, we end up replacing all the siding too!


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Title company notified us today that we are clear to close!!! I am awaiting a specific closing time and instructions on depositing money into escrow. WOOHOO!!!!!! :hobbyhors


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

We own our farm!!!! Settlement was today. The title company wasn't ready which was a huge pain but we got it done. So we are officially homesteaders!! 

Demo day is on Saturday. Then the real fun work begins.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Congrats! 
If you enjoy a little sweat equity, you won't regret it. Best.


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## ForestToFarm (Feb 28, 2016)

Happy days!!


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

kilgrosh said:


> We own our farm!!!! Settlement was today. The title company wasn't ready which was a huge pain but we got it done. So we are officially homesteaders!!
> 
> Demo day is on Saturday. Then the real fun work begins.



Congrats!
Let us know if there is anything we can help you with.


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## shaky6 (May 15, 2015)

Work never ends starting now.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Contractors, electricians, well service, septic, plumbing, roofing, painting, and a whole lot more!!! 

It will be a busy few days getting the tradesman all lined up and scheduled. Especially with the holidays, schedules become very tight. 

I have learned that being organized, using a project notebook, and upfront with everyone involved, that things go way smoother. I write everything down and keep detailed notes as I go along. If any issues arise, I can refer to my notebook easily. 

I ordered the insulation yesterday. I bought Roxul Comfortbatt R-30 to cover my whole attic, about 1,000 sqft. I purchased it from Insulation4us.com. I never heard of them before but they were $5 cheaper per bag and delivery in 10 days. Cost about $1000. I will let you know how it turns out. 

Also, I bought a DIY spray foam kit from Foam It Green. I will use that to create an air seal between my attic and the second floor. I bought enough to put 1" (R-7) down and enough to seal up the sill plates in the basement. It's was cheaper than hiring someone but still about $1500.


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## shaky6 (May 15, 2015)

For attic I wouldn't use anything else besides blow in, and blow it in heavy, like 12-18 inches. Decent price at Lowes plus they let you borrow the blow in machine for a refundable deposit.


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## shaky6 (May 15, 2015)

Don't go and start spray foaming in the attic without some serious inquiry into what you're doing. I don't know if you're a building pro or not, but sealing the attic space requires forethought into how your home works as a system. I.e., combustible appliances, ventilation, etc.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

kilgrosh said:


> Contractors, electricians, well service, septic, plumbing, roofing, painting, and a whole lot more!!!
> 
> It will be a busy few days getting the tradesman all lined up and scheduled. Especially with the holidays, schedules become very tight.
> 
> ...


Hope you have a strong back...that roxul weighs a bit...humping it up into attic will break a sweat I suspect. Neat idea to seal second floor ceiling...


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

kilgrosh said:


> Contractors, electricians, well service, septic, plumbing, roofing, painting, and a whole lot more!!!
> 
> It will be a busy few days getting the tradesman all lined up and scheduled. Especially with the holidays, schedules become very tight.
> 
> ...


Do you need to submit Plumbing designs? Or need Plumbing drawings to submit to the township? If so let me know, I work for a HVAC & Plumbing Company. I'm their Draftsman/CADD Operator & Plumbing Estimator.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

shaky6 said:


> Don't go and start spray foaming in the attic without some serious inquiry into what you're doing. I don't know if you're a building pro or not, but sealing the attic space requires forethought into how your home works as a system. I.e., combustible appliances, ventilation, etc.



I understand your concern. I have checked and all the venting goes through the roof. No appliance in the attic space since anything like that goes up the chimneys. Also, spray foam is the only way to seal the house properly. Too many cracks and crannys to deal with. 

Blow in insulation won't seal the house properly but I did look into it thoroughly. Keep the ideas coming!!!


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

I'll keep that in mind beowolf


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## shaky6 (May 15, 2015)

If you have anything that burns, gas stove, heater, etc, sealing up the house is a bad idea. You have to have fresh air infiltration


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

shaky6 said:


> If you have anything that burns, gas stove, heater, etc, sealing up the house is a bad idea. You have to have fresh air infiltration


Thankfully we don't have these things. Also, you make a good point about fresh air ventilation. the house is old, so there will always be a way for fresh air to get in.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Demo Day #1 was a huge success!! 



This past Saturday I had about 10 friends and family show up to help with demolition of the farmhouse. We took out the kitchen without destroying the walls. The bathroom was removed, and just needs the vinyl floor and plaster walls removed. The downstairs carpet was ripped up. Though the carpet was removed we have this weird red foam backed carpet glued to the subfloor that is near impossible to remove. The wall paper came down and is halfway complete. The big project of the day was the take down of the shed. It took nearly four hours but it finally came down! 

























We filled a 20 yd dumpster with ease. I will be ordering another one tomorrow since I still have more demolition to go. Next up on the list is installing the insulation in the attic, tearing out the plaster in the bathroom, and scraping all the paint off the walls. 











Anybody have any ideas for removing this red foam carpet junk? I took me three hours just to get this portion done. I used a floor scraper, Goof Off adhesive remover, putty knives, and all the back muscles are sore! 













Added bonus of the week: my oil furnace works great and will last another few years. The well pump was replaced in the last year. And the septic is perfectly fine for the house. :hobbyhors


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## shaky6 (May 15, 2015)

Careful, that old vinyl has asbestos


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

kilgrosh said:


> Demo Day #1 was a huge success!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If glued down tile, I would suggest a heat gun, but with that foam, probably not a good idea. Other than ripping up sub-floor, your options are limited. I hate it when folks do stuff like that...foam underlay for carpet is not supposed to be glued down. Maybe a staple here and there, or glue at transition. Is it glued all the way? 
Look on the bright side, you got X amount less to do...feel for you. 
Once done, I would consider a deck sander with a heavy grit to smooth it out...will likely go through a few pads. Hmmm, got me thinking if there is a floor pad for a polisher that could accomplish the same thing....


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## ForestToFarm (Feb 28, 2016)

Look good kilgrosh!

The current house we are living in has linoleum/tile floor. I suspect it has asbestos as someone mentioned above about yours. Either way I plan to do a little remodel to it after we get our new home finished. When I do replace the old floor I plan to cut through the flooring and plywood. Then remove the plywood and completely replace it. 

While the plywood is up I will give the joist system a good looking over and make sure everything is in good shape and level. Then new plywood and new linoleum. This method is a bit extreme but I feel it will accomplish the best end result in a long run. the floor will look better with the new plywood installed and the new flooring will look better and be easier to install over raw plywood than over a stripped old plywood. Plus it exposes us to the least dust from the old flooring. We will just pry it all up at once but of course some areas will have to be cut to accomplish the removal. I will have a big squirrel cage fan in the door and one in the window sucking all possible dust out the window as the work is done and work my way toward the fans so as to avoid being in the dust as much as possible. 

A new floor system for my kitchen which is the room I am talking about will not add a huge amount of cost and will result in a nice finish. 

Good luck on yours and let us know how it goes!
Terry


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Terry, good idea on the squirrel fan in the window. Since the room is only 12x12, a few sheets of plywood might be the ticket. 

Meli, the downside is the room is 18' x 43' and it takes me three hours to do a 3'x10' section...which means that's almost 80 hours of labor!! :Bawling: I will keep looking for a way to make it go quicker.


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## beowoulf90 (Jan 13, 2004)

Maybe renting a floor sander will make it easier to remove the foam padding. 

I don't know how much it will gum up the sanding pad, but it might be worth a try in a small area.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Demo day #2!!! There was heavy ice and rain so the roads are crap. It means it's a one man show today! Time to tackle the plaster in the bathroom!








And then I find an old stove pipe hidden in the wall... well just another hole to fill!


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## ForestToFarm (Feb 28, 2016)

kilgrosh said:


> Demo day #2!!! There was heavy ice and rain so the roads are crap. It means it's a one man show today! Time to tackle the plaster in the bathroom!
> View attachment 58155
> 
> 
> And then I find an old stove pipe hidden in the wall... well just another hole to fill!


I would suggest wearing a face mask or better yet a respirator type mask. That plaster can contain a lot of bad stuff you do not want to breath. 

Good luck and have fun!
Terry


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Terry, I went through three dust masks. I did find out the easiest way to take out plaster is to recip saw it out. I went and bought a box of short 6" embedded wood blades and cut the plaster out in sections. It made it easier to handle and less dusty. I only went through about 8 blades for the day. 

Also, plaster is heavy!! Keep that in mind when you fill a trash can full of pieces. I made that mistake early in the day and ended up hauling 200lbs of plaster down the stairs. But after using the recip saw, I could easily take four large pieces (a whole 8' stud2stud section) down to the dumpster.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Something to be said for Lath and Plaster walls...better than drywall we have nowadays, which doesn't have the soundproofing or strength L&P does. Plus, I believe one got better wall breathing,, much like an earthen home.
I remember, as a kid, we owned a 1905 built home with L&P. Couldn't hear a thing between floors, other than the squeaky floors (T&G floors will do that, especially without glue). Although, insulation wasn't high on the list in 1905. 
Not suggesting you keep it, but they sure don't make them like they used to...the time and effort to build a wall like that would drive me mad. The studs look to be in good shape, plus they look like they are full dimension. 

Find any time capsule material behind the walls yet? In ours, we found dated newspapers...was kind of cool to see advertisements for clothing costing pennies or a brand new wood-stove for a few dollars. 
Any history on the house? As to how old it is? 

If I was reno'ing a hundred year old home, I'd do my best to preserve as much as possible, but if it was built in the 70's or later, I'd probably bulldoze it...lol
I really have a thing for the Art Deco style homes built in 30's and 40's. As a kid, I rented an art deco home with some fellow students. Unfortunately, they painted all the woodwork and trim, but still, the style was unmistakable. Classic home. 

Looking forward to following you on your reno journey...best.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

I haven't found anything super cool yet. I'm sure as I dig through the house I will come across items. The studs are full dimensional and in solid shape. The previous owners cut through one to put in a medicine cabinet so I will have repair the one. The original house was 1845 with several additions over the next 60 years. I think one addition was post civil war, another just before 1900, and the last in the1980s. 

I agree on a 1970s home...just gut it and start over. My property is a great property but if if I had the money (like $500k or more) I would have bought the land and built a home. 10 acres or more typically costs $250k at a minimum for raw land and a house costs about $125/sqft. to build. And this is all if the land is build-able and not a land locked hill of rocks and trees.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Back to work after the holidays. We had a great day yesterday. The shed is all to pieces and by the dumpster ready for removal. My parents came by and helped out. They cleaned out the garden beds and removed bushes from the front of the house. My father worked in the basement putting in lolly columns. Apparently the support posts that were there were not actually supporting anything! 

We have found a great plumber and electrician. They start work next week and then the real fun begins! 

One issue that arose was our insulation. If you remember I had ordered Roxul from Insulation4US.com. Here is might take away:

1) plan on having your order arrive 4 weeks late. They don't have any stock and direct ship from an intermediary. 
2) they are based in Ireland. Creates huge problems when you want answers. 
3) I only saved $300 by ordering from them

Basically use them only on large orders to make the savings add up. The order did finally arrive and everything was accounted for.


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## ForestToFarm (Feb 28, 2016)

Gotta be careful with those older homes. My brother bought an old house with support problems. The worse problem was a beam across the basement that had been covered to make it "look nice" according to the owner selling it to my brother. They had fixed up a small room down there. Turns out they covered it because it had just about rotted away. When the entire house started to sag in the middle my brother ripped the covering that "looked nice" off the beam and sure enough it was all but gone. It was a costly but repairable surprise. 

Looks like you guys are doing a good job. Good luck!


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Glad you noticed and took care of the structural issue in basement. Without structure, you have a house of cards. 
Reminds me of a neighbor...I pointed out her beam was sagging on main floor. Turns out they removed a support post because it ruined the 'view'. I put a laser to it. 3" deflection. Geesh. 
I'm sorry, I could never live in a house with substandard structural members. I really tried to hammer home the importance of a solid house. I think she opted not to put to anything heavy on second floor...lol

Love the pics Kilgrosh!


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Thanks for the support everyone. Taking Friday off from work so I can get a three day weekend in on the farm. 

Anybody have any ideas on how to remove the pointy-popcorn paint on ceilings? I'm using a hand scraper and it is taking me over an hour to get a 2'x2' area done! Not to mention that my shoulders are super sore!


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

kilgrosh said:


> Thanks for the support everyone. Taking Friday off from work so I can get a three day weekend in on the farm.
> 
> Anybody have any ideas on how to remove the pointy-popcorn paint on ceilings? I'm using a hand scraper and it is taking me over an hour to get a 2'x2' area done! Not to mention that my shoulders are super sore!


A bigger scraper? Like the ones used to scrap off floor tiles. They have a long handle, so your not reaching up so high. Problem is they usually have a heavy handle (actually I see they have wooden handle ones). See if you can find a hallow handle one, or duct tape a wide (8") taping and putty knife to an pole extension. Google floor scraper and taping and putty knife, then click on images...
If paint, likely have to go with floor scraper...
I hate that stuff...whoever thought up of popcorn ceilings or textured ceilings, ought to be....


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Changed course with the ceiling. Now we are just scraping the points off the stiff paint and giving it a good sanding. It's taking too long and my painter (aka Uncle Matt) said you would notice a difference. 

This weekend I will build the bathroom back up. The plumber roughed in all the lines and drains this week. Also, this gave me a great reason to buy a compressor and framing nailer. Merry Christmas to me!!  

Pictures will be coming soon!


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

It's been a busy few days at the farm. Last weekend I was supposed to frame up my shower stall and tub surround so the plumbers could finish up. Well, when I went to do the work the rough ins were in the wrong place and off by about an inch plus! I was so mad!








My brother had come out to help me and now we were off to a bad start. I called the plumber (on a Sunday) and they said they would come out the next day to redo the work. The day wasn't a total loss though. We moved all of the leftover appliances out to the curb, including the broken wood cook stove. That sucker is heavy! We removed all of the old carpet underpayment. And plugged all of the old radiator holes in the floor with dowels so the floor refinishers can start their work. 

We cleaned out the attic. There must have been 100 lbs of mice poop up there! The previous owners had stapled up reflective paper to the rafters to try to keep the heat in the house. P.S. It doesn't do anything, except crest a nice place for mice to live! With the attic all clean, I am going to lay my Roxul on top of the floor boards for now. I will worry about properly insulating the attic when I have more time. 

We also finished scraping the dining room ceiling!  all that is left is for me to sand some spots to smooth out the rough bits. 

On Tuesday, the plumber calls me and politely tells me I'm an idiot  I didn't realize that the shower pan goes up against the studs and the drywall is placed just on top, with the tiling covering the gap! 









So today, I am heading up to do the framing. Also, I am replacing the sub flooring. Last time I noticed that there was a lot of give in the floor. I pulled up a piece of subfloor and tore it to shreds trying to get it up! The little give I felt was from my joists being 24" apart and the subfloor I bought (1/2" OSB) was meant for 16" O.C. joists. I bought 19/32" plywood and had Lowe's cut it in half for me. The sheets of plywood were very curved/bent so the manager gave $5 off per sheet! 

Little tip: in the lumber section, Lowe's commonly has a Cut Pile. It's all the lumber that is too warped, cut improperly, or not good enough to sell at full price. They typically will mark down the price by 90%! I got a 7 1/2 ft. PT 4x4 post for $1.50!!! Nothing was wrong with the post other than it wasn't 8 feet (a customer had cut it and then returned it). For homesteading projects, perfectly straight isn't necessary all the time and now I have a great source of good lumber!


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## ForestToFarm (Feb 28, 2016)

Sounds like you are on the right track. 

I remodeled our bathrooms a few years back. 

On the master I was just going down to replace tile and fixtures and cabinet. Before it was over I completely tore our the entire room including floor joists. My wife almost walked into the room and I said wait. Look inside first. She sees me at about chest high standing in the crawl space, lol. She says I thought you were just replacing the tile!! I was like "ooops", ha ha. In the end she was very pleased. The joists and plywood had gotten wet over the years and had rotted. The previous owner just put new tile over the mess.


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## shaky6 (May 15, 2015)

kilgrosh said:


> Thanks for the support everyone. Taking Friday off from work so I can get a three day weekend in on the farm.
> 
> Anybody have any ideas on how to remove the pointy-popcorn paint on ceilings? I'm using a hand scraper and it is taking me over an hour to get a 2'x2' area done! Not to mention that my shoulders are super sore!


Take a spray bottle with water in it and mist over the areas you are scraping. Let it soak in about 20 min.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Appreciate your honesty (shower pan)...lol
We all have our share of gaffes...my latest was putting chainsaw oil in gas tank...doh!
Still messing with carb (months later)....

Oh yeah, I did mention on my thread, I ran over my chainsaw with excavator (twice, just to make sure).


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

I was able to get the bathroom all framed up and ready for the plumbers to finish up. That was a very long day! I replaced the sub flooring because the OSB sagged too much between the joists. When I removed it, it tore apart. I used 19/32 plywood on the second go round. Also, I added 2x6 cross joists under the tub and middle joists to add rigidity. The framing was not difficult just time consuming when by yourself. Nothing is level, square, or straight in old houses!! 

This weekend it's tiling and drywall! 









Also had a UV Light system added to my water line since my water test showed a high bacteria count.


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## ForestToFarm (Feb 28, 2016)

Progress!! 

That cross bracing will add a lot of rigidity to your floor system. Wit two foot on center I would add it every chance possible.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

ForestToFarm said:


> Progress!!
> 
> 
> 
> That cross bracing will add a lot of rigidity to your floor system. Wit two foot on center I would add it every chance possible.



It did come in handy when we went to tile the floors. The floors aren't level but at least the are even now. Also, the cross bracing was needed when the plumbing cut through the joists. One cannot cut through 150 year old oak with a hole saw! The plumbers just notched enough out of the top to fit the pipe


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

We had a huge weekend!! Started out Saturday morning with just studs and ended up with a fully tiled shower and tub, plus the floor! I have had a lot of help on this entire project but today it really showed. 

My friend Jen worked three full days with me. My brother Kevin worked 2 and a half. And we had a few helpers here and there throughout the weekend. I am super excited to see the bathroom when it's done this week. Just need the plumber to add valves to the water lines (toilet, sinks) and install the bathtub faucet, then I can set the finishes and trim pieces!


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

You obviously picked the right friends! lol
Especially qualified tile installers...hmmm.....


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

A little update on my finances. Money is all over the place because of the renovation, moving, etc. In a few weeks I will have a better update when things quiet down for me but for now I am still on course-ish :indif:

All in all, I budgeted $50,000 for the renovation, but I am approved for $75,000. I am currently at $53,000 for the projected final budget. even though my major utilities passed other aspects of the renovation have caught me by surprise. My electrical wiring is all updated but none of the rooms had proper, updated lighting and working switches. The kitchen needed an overhaul electrically too. Total cost is $11,000, when I budgeted only $5,000. Painting is another area where I severely under budgeted. I thought it would cost $5,000 to paint 2900 sqft. Even with my Uncle doing the painting (he is a professional painter by trade), it will cost me $8,500. I thought this was high but another contractor said that price is probably 25% below anybody else. The final surprise was my chimney. I have two chimneys: one is for a fireplace and the other is for the furnace. The furnace was unlined, no capping, and wouldn't pass inspection for a loan. That was $3,000 I hadn't budgeted for either. 

Other little items have crept the costs up too. Dumpster rental so far has cost $1500, and I have crammed everything I could in those things! fixtures, finishes, and hardware seems like it wouldn't cost much but adding it all up is another couple thousand. My water tested positive for bacteria so I had a UV Light system installed...$1,200. Random supplies and materials, like new compressor and framing nailer or protective items (dust masks, gloves, glasses, etc.), have added $2,000 to the budget. 

I am not complaining about the costs at all, because every penny spent has been well worth it. I want others to know who are looking to do the same to really put pencil to paper when it comes to budgeting. Take your time. Get expert opinions on costs even if it costs you a site survey fee. Spending $50 to have a professional walk through and give a scope of work for a particular area will help you budget better in the long run.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

If you can be only 3k (6%) over budget on a reno, you'd be superhuman. I'd consider 6% a rounding error....Did that 50k include a contingency line item? Usually, most contractors will add 10-20% on a quote to cover unforeseen expenses. 
Nobody ever comes under budget...lol
Especially on a 200yr old home. 

So, your really pushing to be living in this home asap? 
You must have an accounting/business background...keeping a clamp on expenses in a reno has to be the hardest thing to do. I can't even budget properly for building shed/decks, even though I've done dozens of them, and have the actual material receipts from previous builds staring me in the face (I know the price of most materials by heart). There is always some wrinkle/alteration in every build. 

I assume if your utilities passed, you have smoke/C02 alarms all over? Excuse me for being safety conscious picky...
best
melli


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## shaky6 (May 15, 2015)

Have you considered the cost to set up your home brewing system???


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

melli said:


> If you can be only 3k (6%) over budget on a reno, you'd be superhuman. I'd consider 6% a rounding error....Did that 50k include a contingency line item? Usually, most contractors will add 10-20% on a quote to cover unforeseen expenses.
> Nobody ever comes under budget...lol
> Especially on a 200yr old home.
> 
> ...



I'll take just being human for now!! I am pushing to get in as quick as possible. Per the loan agreement I cannot move in until I am refinanced as the loan is a non-consumer loan. Each month costs me $3300 in carrying costs so speed is a necessity! 

My father and brother are in finances so I picked up numbers along the way. I'm super organized too so I have allotted time to finish projects plus overage and setbacks. When one trade finishes I usually have about a day or two before the next one starts giving me time to prep the space, thus cutting down on labor costs. I have found the really expensive portion is the labor. 

My method with the contractors has been very simple and straightforward: bid accurately and honestly, otherwise don't bid. It also helps being in law enforcement...gives it the "or else" effect quite nicely 

Smoke alarms and carbon monoxide detectors are all being installed before we move in.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

shaky6 said:


> Have you considered the cost to set up your home brewing system???



I don't home brew but I will have a sawmill and wood shop!


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

kilgrosh said:


> ........
> 
> My method with the contractors has been very simple and straightforward: bid accurately and honestly, otherwise don't bid. It also helps being in law enforcement...gives it the "or else" effect quite nicely
> 
> ................


Geesh, law enforcement...lol
I sold a truck to a retired RCMP officer, and he made it clear numerous times he was a retired RCMP officer...lol
I was like, yeah, so what does that mean exactly.... Cagey guy. My mistake was letting him take me on a test ride. I did demand money up front prior to test drive, but it wouldn't have made much difference if he killed me. He had a brain cramp and downshifted (popped clutch) at hwy speeds, and while turning. I get shivers thinking about it. He did man up and apologize. I regret selling that truck :bored:...I get the odd report that he is happy with it, and he has done some body work on it, by running into things....poor truck.


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## rjwassink67 (Dec 18, 2012)

Just found your thread!!! You are living a dream! I cant wait until I have a chance to buy and improve my own land and buildings. Keep the pictures coming. Will be tracking from here on out.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

rj, start looking now and talking to people in the area you want to be. After buying the farm, I started to notice more "for sale by owner" signs at the end of long driveways.


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Been a busy couple of weeks. The hardwood floors have been refinished. They turned out awesome! I redid the downstairs half bathroom. Only took 11 trips to Lowe's and more frustration than I thought possible. Lessons I learned on plumbing a bathroom:
-PEX is easier than copper
-old copper will snap off if you twist hard enough
-push fittings are the easiest but most expensive fittings
-toilets aren't scary after all
-buy several sizes at one time to avoid trips back to the store

Now its time for the contractors to finish up the kitchen, carpet, and paint!!








Twisted it right off!







PEX push fittings are a snap







Floors came out great







Flooring guys used the wrong door when instructed not to and this was the result. They took $100 off the bill. Took me $0.50 in trim nails to put it back up. #winning


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## littlebay (Jan 26, 2017)

That floor is a thing of beauty!


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## ForestToFarm (Feb 28, 2016)

kilgrosh said:


> Been a busy couple of weeks. The hardwood floors have been refinished. They turned out awesome! I redid the downstairs half bathroom. Only took 11 trips to Lowe's and more frustration than I thought possible. Lessons I learned on plumbing a bathroom:
> -PEX is easier than copper
> -old copper will snap off if you twist hard enough
> -push fittings are the easiest but most expensive fittings
> ...


I'm jealous, its gonna be a long time before we get close to moving to our land. You appear to be getting very close. Good for you.
Terry


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

Quick update: kitchen cabinets are in 




















Our awesome GC was able to craft a support for the counter top extension we wanted. Cost $115 in materials when the cabinet company charges $450 PER LEG!!


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## ForestToFarm (Feb 28, 2016)

Won't be long and you can invite us all (from this forum) over for dinner! Ha ha.

Looks great!

Terry


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## kilgrosh (Apr 29, 2014)

You're welcome to road trip up here anytime this summer Terry. 

The upstairs is painted. The bathroom is 90% complete, just need to have the sinks hooked up an mirrors installed. All the electrical fixtures are put in upstairs. As soon as paint is complete in the kitchen, everything will get buttoned up there too. The counter tops went in last week and the backsplash should be done tomorrow. I figure that I am about a three weeks away from starting the refi process. Move in date should be mid April. 








One of the boy's room







Light gray for our room







Kitchen island with large sink







Stove and corner cabinets. Eventually the wall on the left will be removed to open it up to the family room. But that's a few years down the road.


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## ForestToFarm (Feb 28, 2016)

Looks great! We did some remodel work at our current home. wish we would have took out a kitchen wall to open it up a bit such as yourself. if we were not moving I would do it.


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## melli (May 7, 2016)

Did those floors turn out nice! You really transformed an old tired country home!
You should be a contractor, and these pics in your portfolio. Quick and on budget...
Best.


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