# When does it end?



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

> *NORAH O’DONNELL: *What is your advice about Thanksgiving?
> *DR. ANTHONY FAUCI: *I think people should be very careful and prudent about social gatherings, particularly when members of the family might be at a risk because of their age or underlying condition. You may have to bite the bullet and sacrifice that social gathering, unless you’re pretty certain that the people that you’re dealing with are not infected. Either they’ve been very recently tested, or they’re living a lifestyle in which they don’t have any interaction with anybody except you and your family.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

It isn't ending and it won't. 
It isn't about a flu; the bizarro has is and will continue to evolve and now so will you have to also, or you will become a victim.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> It isn't ending and it won't.
> It isn't about a flu; the bizarro has is and will continue to evolve and now so will you have to also, or you will become a victim.


A pandemic isn't the kind of war that conservatives like to fight.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

What does that mean exactly?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Nevada said:


> A pandemic isn't the kind of war that conservatives like to fight.


What are we fighting? My friends, neighbors, and relatives are not dropping dead in the streets. I literally know ONE person who has tested positive since this whole mess started almost 9 months ago here, and he lives in a completely different country and is currently perfectly healthy.

I don't like fighting propaganda wars, personally. We're all just in dog training school at this point in the game. And it is a game.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Nevada said:


> A pandemic isn't the kind of war that conservatives like to fight.


A pandemic is the kind of war that democrats like to politicize and claim conservatives are the ones doing that.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Mish said:


> What are we fighting? My friends, neighbors, and relatives are not dropping dead in the streets. I literally know ONE person who has tested positive since this whole mess started almost 9 months ago here, and he lives in a completely different country and is currently perfectly healthy.
> 
> I don't like fighting propaganda wars, personally. We're all just in dog training school at this point in the game. And it is a game.


Is your point that if you don't know anyone who has died from COVID-19 that it's not a big deal to you? Did you feel that way about 9/11 victims?


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Yes, it is more obvious every day that the Left has taken advantage of this virus, which, in reality isn't that dangerous to anyone in reasonably good health. They are using it to see just how far they can push the American population into doing what they want. That is why the mask thing is pushed harder than social distancing and hand washing. You can't really quantify hand washing, or, social distancing, but, you sure can with masks. According to the WHO, it is estimated that 10%, or, more of the world population already has had this virus. That means that the survival rate is around 99.9%. Because of a bad cold, we have done a wonderful job of killing small business and doing much psychological damage to the population. I have seen 20 somethings cry, uncontrollably when they learn that a healthy sibling has tested positive because they have been led to believe that a positive test is next to a death sentence. I know one person who had a relative who died with COVID. Of course, that person had end stage COPD, but, hey, that isn't mentioned when cause of death is written. I have known a few people who had it. They were from early 20's to their mid 80's. The worst case was from a 50 year old diabetic who said it felt like a car parked on his chest, but never had to be hospitalized. His parents, in their 80's barely had symptoms, just felt a little off for a few days. The younger ones were doing outdoor chores when they found out they had it. We need to stop the Leftist drama and stop living in fear.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Is your point that if you don't know anyone who has died from COVID-19 that it's not a big deal to you? Did you feel that way about 9/11 victims?


If a terrorist attacks you, you are much more likely to die than if you get this virus.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Is your point that if you don't know anyone who has died from COVID-19 that it's not a big deal to you? Did you feel that way about 9/11 victims?


My point is that I live in an extremely populated part of the country - you've been in southern California, you know how it is. My husband and all but one of my relatives, all of my friends and neighbors have been physically going into work this entire time, and the ONLY person I know who has even tested positive for Covid-19 is in another country. No one at my husband's workplace has tested positive (it's a very large workplace with people working in the field with the general public). None of the oldsters - you know, the ones dropping dead all over the place - at my MIL's church have tested positive, gotten sick, or keeled over. I haven't even heard of friends of friends or relatives of friends who tested positive.

If this was a deadly pandemic, you'd think I'd know more than one person who even minimally tested positive at this point. And that one person, although elderly and in a supposedly high risk group, spent 3 days in bed, was treated with aspirin and a round of steroids and fully recovered. You'd think I'd have at least heard of someone who someone else knows that tested positive, got sick, was in the hospital, anything. I haven't.

This isn't a deadly plague. It's just not.

ETA, I lived near the Pentagon and personally knew people who died during 9/11. So, no, I think 9/11 was much, much worse than this farce. But thanks for asking.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> If a terrorist attacks you, you are much more likely to die than if you get this virus.


But you are much more likely to die from COVID-19 than a terrorist attack.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Is your point that if you don't know anyone who has died from COVID-19 that it's not a big deal to you? Did you feel that way about 9/11 victims?


So, again, what does that have to do with a person's ideology?
Wouldn't it, or shouldn't it be more of an issue of humanity?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Nevada said:


> But you are much more likely to die from COVID-19 than a terrorist attack.


Not if you're minimally healthy and not near the end of the average human lifespan.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Mish said:


> Not if you're minimally healthy and not near the end of the average human lifespan.


That's turning out to be not as true as first thought.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> But you are much more likely to die from COVID-19 than a terrorist attack.


So? You are more likely to die from hundreds rent things than a terrorist attack. It is highly unlikely that I will die from Ebola, but, if it were circulating in the American population, I would stay home for as long as it takes. Why? because if I were to get it, there is a high probability that I will die from it. The same reason I won't be visiting any terrorist camps. This souped up cold just isn't that dangerous on an individual basis.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The "how many lives" mantra is so musty smelling.
_Some lives matter_ seems to be the slant as those with an agenda seem to value one life over another, atleast as it suits them.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> That's turning out to be not as true as first thought.


Most people, who get it, never know they had it.


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Mish said:


> My point is that I live in an extremely populated part of the country - you've been in southern California, you know how it is. My husband and all but one of my relatives, all of my friends and neighbors have been physically going into work this entire time, and the ONLY person I know who has even tested positive for Covid-19 is in another country. No one at my husband's workplace has tested positive (it's a very large workplace with people working in the field with the general public). None of the oldsters - you know, the ones dropping dead all over the place - at my MIL's church have tested positive, gotten sick, or keeled over. I haven't even heard of friends of friends or relatives of friends who tested positive.
> 
> If this was a deadly pandemic, you'd think I'd know more than one person who even minimally tested positive at this point. And that one person, although elderly and in a supposedly high risk group, spent 3 days in bed, was treated with aspirin and a round of steroids and fully recovered. You'd think I'd have at least heard of someone who someone else knows that tested positive, got sick, was in the hospital, anything. I haven't.
> 
> ...


I live in a very rural area. Two people on my road contracted it. The mother not wanting to listen about being careful gave it to her daughter. Her daughter said she's never been so sick in her life and was knocking on the door of hospitalization. It's been nearly two months and she still is not fully recovered.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Nevada said:


> But you are much more likely to die from COVID-19 than a terrorist attack.


Is there some point you're trying to make?



Nevada said:


> That's turning out to be not as true as first thought.


Show your data.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Nevada said:


> That's turning out to be not as true as first thought.


Really? Even according the the CDC numbers, if you're under 70 and somewhat healthy, your odds of dying from this are less than your odds of dying from random weird acts of God. I'm pretty sure I'm much more likely to die in a fiery crash on the freeway here on any given day. I should probably stop driving completely.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

robin416 said:


> I live in a very rural area. Two people on my road contracted it. The mother not wanting to listen about being careful gave it to her daughter. Her daughter said she's never been so sick in her life and was knocking on the door of hospitalization. It's been nearly two months and she still is not fully recovered.


So based on the results in your immediate area, as the mayor or town potentate, would you order the shut down and padlocking of the feed mill, the local sale barns and co op, the coffee shops, the off the square retailers, beauty salons and churches, the funeral homes, leaving the Walmart and Superfuel to remain in business?
How would you respond to the the locals, your neighbors and townfolks who come to you pleading for their jobs and access to the loved ones?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> So? You are more likely to die from hundreds rent things than a terrorist attack. It is highly unlikely that I will die from Ebola, but, if it were circulating in the American population, I would stay home for as long as it takes. Why? because if I were to get it, there is a high probability that I will die from it. The same reason I won't be visiting any terrorist camps. This souped up cold just isn't that dangerous on an individual basis.


We don't stay home, wear masks and observe social distancing necessarily to protect ourselves, but to protect others in the event that we have unknowingly contracted the disease. You don't care if you infect others who are more vulnerable?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Mish said:


> Really? Even according the the CDC numbers, if you're under 70 and somewhat healthy, your odds of dying from this are less than your odds of dying from random weird acts of God. I'm pretty sure I'm much more likely to die in a fiery crash on the freeway here on any given day. I should probably stop driving completely.


Really? Do you have that article?

But that doesn't do me a lot of good. I turned 70 two months ago.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

robin416 said:


> I live in a very rural area. Two people on my road contracted it. The mother not wanting to listen about being careful gave it to her daughter. Her daughter said she's never been so sick in her life and was knocking on the door of hospitalization. It's been nearly two months and she still is not fully recovered.


I'm sorry to hear that, I really am. It sucks to be sick. 

This still doesn't rise to the level of something that requires the entire population to be locked down or for businesses to be shut down. Even the two people you mention didn't require hospitalization, and happily didn't die. 

This is not an apocalyptic event. It's conditioning at this point. We're being conditioned to be afraid, and to obey. Period.

Also, I love the compassion for people who come down with the virus. Apparently you only get it if you're not being careful. You know, because that's how viruses work, they go after those aren't careful or virtuous. Perhaps the daughter wasn't being careful enough, either.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Really? Do you have that article?
> 
> But that doesn't do me a lot of good. I turned 70 two months ago.


Happy belated birthday. You could do what's best for you in your situation, perhaps by self-isolating or whatever makes you feel safer.

And let the rest of us do what's best for us.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

My parents had it while our of state, thought they had a bad cold. They are in their 70's. But they are very healthy in comparison for their age group.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Mish said:


> I'm sorry to hear that, I really am. It sucks to be sick.
> 
> This still doesn't rise to the level of something that requires the entire population to be locked down or for businesses to be shut down. Even the two people you mention didn't require hospitalization, and happily didn't die.
> 
> ...


Look at it this way, 3,000 Americans died on 9/11 and conservatives had no problem taking extraordinary measures. But 215,000 Americans died from COVID-19 and you can't be inconvenienced. Go figure...


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Mish said:


> Also, I love the compassion for people who come down with the virus. *Apparently you only get it if you're not being careful.* You know, because that's how viruses work, they go after those aren't careful or virtuous. Perhaps the daughter wasn't being careful enough, either.


According to HHS, a study of people that tested positive and mask use:
Never wear a mask 3.9%
Rarely Wear a mask 3.9%
Sometimes wear 7.2%
*Often Wear 14.4%
Always Wear 70.6%
That's 85% of positive tests wore masks. *


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Look at it this way, 3,000 Americans died on 9/11 and conservatives had no problem taking extraordinary measures. But 215,000 Americans died from COVID-19 and you can't be inconvenienced. Go figure...


Most Americans were on board with extraordinary measures at that time, not just conservatives. Biden - you know, the guy the Democrats picked to run for President - voted to give Bush approval to commence military action against Iraq. Stop trying to rewrite history and at least make an attempt at being intellectually honest.

The numbers are still fluid for Covid deaths. We won't know the truth for years likely, if ever. The whole thing has been politicized to the point that facts are no longer facts unless they're politically expedient - kind of like your statement about 9/11.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> We don't stay home, wear masks and observe social distancing necessarily to protect ourselves, but to protect others in the event that we have unknowingly contracted the disease. You don't care if you infect others who are more vulnerable?


The more vulnerable should be the ones staying at home to avoid the virus. Why don't we do this for Flu? Flu is more dangerous to the same folks that react badly to COVID. We don't shut down an entire economy to protect a very small segment of the population. We sequester that segment. You wear masks because government told you to. They tell you to wear masks to see if you are malleable.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Shutdowns were an attempt to slow down and minimize the spread. It did not work because people did not understand the severity of the need to follow the protocols. The ultimate goal of the need to slow down the spread is multifold.

Allow our medical professionals time to figure out how to deal with this new virus.
Slow down infections so the hospitals and staff could deal with the virus without putting them in harm's way and to stay on top of the medical needs. The more tired and overwhelmed they are the more people would die including those we need to take care of the ill.

Shutdowns now will need to be targeted at places where infections are ramping up to achieve the same thing for the medical staff. 

Covid 19 is more infectious and deadly than the flu. Not taking measures in the entire population would escalate the hospitalizations and that alone would cripple our health care system and therefore cripple the country far worse than short targeted shutdowns.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Look at it this way, 3,000 Americans died on 9/11 and conservatives had no problem taking extraordinary measures. But 215,000 Americans died from COVID-19 and you can't be inconvenienced. Go figure...


I guess as long as your social security check comes, you can label people being fired from their jobs because of a fiat from a gov or mayor as being "inconvenienced". I imagine those that can't work would use a different terminology.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Shutdowns were an attempt to slow down and minimize the spread. It did not work because people did not understand the severity of the need to follow the protocols. The ultimate goal of the need to slow down the spread is multifold.


Didn't some folks say that without shutdowns we would be looking a millions of deaths by the end of summer? So, being that we only have a little over 200k, shouldn't you be claiming that the lockdowns worked?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Hiro said:


> I guess as long as your social security check comes, you can label people being fired from their jobs because of a fiat from a gov or mayor as being "inconvenienced". I imagine those that can't work would use a different terminology.


Or those who work from home.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> Didn't some folks say that without shutdowns we would be looking a millions of deaths by the end of summer? So, being that we only have a little over 200k, shouldn't you be claiming that the lockdowns worked?


You are correct, they did work to some extent.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Thanks to the shutdown the hospital closet to us has shutdown half it's beds and furloughed or fired a large portion of it's staff. Now most surgeries and treatments have to go to the next hospital which is over 200 miles away. Even than it's a get in line and hope for the best.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

painterswife said:


> You are correct, they did work to some extent.


But Sweden has similar numbers to us, adjusted for population and they didn't lock down, so, did they work at all?


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> But Sweden has similar numbers to us, adjusted for population and they didn't lock down, so, did they work at all?


Just more evidence that some here took it seriously and some did not and therefore while our numbers are better than they could be they are not as good as they would have been if the people of this country really understood and accepted the reality of how serious this virus is. Covid 19 is not the flu.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

painterswife said:


> Just more evidence that some here took it seriously and some did not and therefore while our numbers are better than they could be they are not as good as they would have been if the people of this country really understood and accepted the reality of how serious this virus is. Covid 19 is not the flu.


Or, evidence that the "experts" either through ignorance, or agenda, gave us useless advice. And COVID is not the flu, it is a different family of virus. It is a bad cold.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Farmerga said:


> Why don't we do this for Flu? Flu is more dangerous to the same folks that react badly to COVID.


Speaking for myself, I get the flu shot. Sometimes the protection is right on, other years not so much. But it provides better protection than not getting it.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Nevada said:


> That's turning out to be not as true as first thought.



Why do you post nonsense? Look at the stats.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> We don't stay home, wear masks and observe social distancing necessarily to protect ourselves, but to protect others in the event that we have unknowingly contracted the disease. You don't care if you infect others who are more vulnerable?


I fully agree with social distancing but you're going to have to explain the mask theory to me a bit better. Logically, if we all agree that outside germs can make it past the mask and infect me, the same germs can sneak out from my side and infect someone else. 

It scares the stuffing out of me that people believe that poorly fitting masks are the magic bullet that's going to save somebody's life.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

In regards to the original post, we might eschew Thanksgiving as it's really not a very important holiday other than eating. I can do that any day of the year.

Today our office had to close unexpectedly as one employee went to Florida without telling his superiors and didn't quarantine and was in the office more than usual this week with minimal mask use. I like the guy but thanks for making us all have to suffer for your trip south to get a dog.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Look at it this way, 3,000 Americans died on 9/11 and conservatives had no problem taking extraordinary measures. But 215,000 Americans died from COVID-19 and you can't be inconvenienced. Go figure...


Why didn't you care when democratic governors sent tens of thousands to their premature deaths? Liberals had no problem with this. They can't be inconvenienced by the truth. Go figure....


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## Fishindude (May 19, 2015)

My 65 year old brother had some flu like symptoms and got a test. He tested positive.
Had a fever for 2-3 days, sore and tired like any other flu and feels fine now.

My buddies 55 year old wife experienced similar, headaches, feeling a little poorly, got a test and tested positive.
2-3 Days later and she was fine, minimal problems.

Heck, Trump got through it rapidly and pretty unscathed and he's mid 70's plus a bit overweight.

It's just not near as dangerous as they are making it out to be.
Certainly not dangerous enough to continue this mask and business shutdown program.


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## altair (Jul 23, 2011)

Fishindude said:


> My 65 year old brother had some flu like symptoms and got a test. He tested positive.
> Had a fever for 2-3 days, sore and tired like any other flu and feels fine now.
> 
> My buddies 55 year old wife experienced similar, headaches, feeling a little poorly, got a test and tested positive.
> ...


I get your point but three examples shouldn't be enough to base a conclusion from. I could cite three examples who ended up dead and then we'd be deadlocked.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

From the CDC. If a person has these issues they are at risk to serious illnesses.









People with Certain Medical Conditions


What you can do if you are at higher risk of severe illness from COVID-19.




www.cdc.gov






Cancer
Chronic kidney disease
COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease)
Heart conditions, such as heart failure, coronary artery disease, or cardiomyopathies
Immunocompromised state (weakened immune system) from solid organ transplant
Obesity (body mass index [BMI] of 30 kg/m2 or higher but < 40 kg/m2)
Severe Obesity (BMI ≥ 40 kg/m2)
Sickle cell disease
Smoking
Type 2 diabetes mellitus


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

You can't logically compare terrorism and Covid. One is a force of nature, one is a social movement. If we don't put on masks and don't use ridiculous policies that cause trauma to people's lives, it does nothing to empower a virus, the virus doesn't care. If we apologized to terrorists, and send them money in apology for being horrible American infidels, it would strengthen and encourage them. Two entirely different battles, on two entirely different fronts. Death numbers mean nothing. Fly a plane into a building, build and deploy a nuclear weapon, both have different death tolls, but you can stop terrorists in between those two points. There is absolutely nothing that humans can do to prevent old sick people from dying. We can shift the causative agent around a little, but they will die from something, around 78 years old on average.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> You can't logically compare terrorism and Covid. One is a force of nature, one is a social movement. If we don't put on masks and don't use ridiculous policies that cause trauma to people's lives, it does nothing to empower a virus, the virus doesn't care. If we apologized to terrorists, and send them money in apology for being horrible American infidels, it would strengthen and encourage them. Two entirely different battles, on two entirely different fronts. Death numbers mean nothing. Fly a plane into a building, build and deploy a nuclear weapon, both have different death tolls, but you can stop terrorists in between those two points. There is absolutely nothing that humans can do to prevent old sick people from dying. We can shift the causative agent around a little, but they will die from something, around 78 years old on average.


I can't tell dad that. He's 77 and uses the largest weed eater stihl makes!


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> You can't logically compare terrorism and Covid.


Both were national security threats.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Both were national security threats.


Were? It must be over then.. just after super Tuesday...


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Both were national security threats.


So is the democrat party.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Mish said:


> Happy belated birthday. You could do what's best for you in your situation, perhaps by self-isolating or whatever makes you feel safer.
> 
> And let the rest of us do what's best for us.


Except he went to Mexico and to the Casino several times in keeping with the covid program. Look in the dark rooms and you will see. 

Holier than thou. Smarter than you or me. He has beat it with his 70 year old self.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

painterswife said:


> Shutdowns were an attempt to slow down and minimize the spread. It did not work because people did not understand the severity of the need to follow the protocols. The ultimate goal of the need to slow down the spread is multifold.


More like the government told us to get off our butts and go to work. We were essential after all. We needed to buy a Kia or a GMC. It was essential. We needed to keep those construction schedules. Cant pay for lost time. We needed our Starbucks coffee and our McDonalds. It was essential. I* NEED *my egg McMuffin I tell ya. 

That is al I need to tell me it was false or a ruse. 

The hospitals laid people off because there was not enough patients. ( I work at the hospitals so I know this for fact. _*Not just one but all of them in a large radius*_) 

Dentists went to the golf course because they were not allowed to work. 

How does a doctor do an exam on you online? Over the phone? 

BUT.....you could sure go and get a Starbucks and an egg McMuffin after your "phone visit" with the Dr. 

*Aesop's fable #210........*

Look it up*. *


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

no really said:


> Thanks to the shutdown the hospital closet to us has shutdown half it's beds and furloughed or fired a large portion of it's staff. Now most surgeries and treatments have to go to the next hospital which is over 200 miles away. Even than it's a get in line and hope for the best.


Yes, That is never discussed on here as fact. It has happened all across this country though. Nurses and medical professionals have been laid off because of the pandemic.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> How does a doctor do an exam on you online? Over the phone?


I know that you're just being obtuse, but telemedicine is a good idea and it's here to stay. There are appropriate disorders for an online visit, and there are problems that are not appropriate. You might see a doctor online for a sore throat or seasonal allergies acting up, but you wouldn't use it for abdominal pain of unknown origin or a broken arm.

If you call for a sore throat the online doctor can prescribe an antibiotic and call it into your pharmacy. You can see a doctor online 24/7 and the wait is seldom more than 10 minutes. You can call from the comfort of your own home wearing PJs. My insurance covers telemedicine visits 100% with no copay.

I've never actually used it myself.but my next door neighbor has. She broke a blood vessel in her eye and the appearance frightened her. The doctor was able to see it with the webcam and reassured her that it would go away on its own. No prescription was necessary. Without telemedicine she would probably have gone to the ER.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Nevada said:


> We don't stay home, wear masks and observe social distancing necessarily to protect ourselves, but *to protect others* in the event that we have unknowingly contracted the disease. You don't care if you infect others who are more *vulnerable*?


If the "vulnerable" stay at home, they won't be affected no matter what anyone else does.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Shutdowns were an attempt to slow down and minimize the spread. *It did not work* because people did not understand the severity of the need to follow the protocols. The ultimate goal of the need to slow down the spread is multifold.


That's simply false.
Why parrot lies?









Dr. Birx predicts up to 200,000 coronavirus deaths 'if we do things almost perfectly'


"I think in some of the metro areas we were late in getting people to follow the 15-day guidelines," the White House coronavirus response coordinator said on "TODAY."




www.nbcnews.com




*



Dr. Birx predicts up to 200,000 U.S. coronavirus deaths 'if we do things almost perfectly'

Click to expand...

*


> Birx said the projections by Dr. Anthony Fauci that U.S. deaths could range from 1.6 million to 2.2 million is a worst case scenario if the country did "nothing" to contain the outbreak, but said *even "if we do things almost perfectly,"* she still predicts up to 200,000 U.S. deaths.






painterswife said:


> Shutdowns now will need to be targeted at places where infections are ramping up to achieve the same thing for the medical staff.


Infections aren't "ramping up".
Testing is.

It fuels the media hype to pretend the number of cases is increasing more rapidly.
Silly word games.......


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Just more evidence that some here took it seriously and some did not and therefore while our numbers are better than they could be they are not as good as they would have been if the people of this country really understood and accepted the reality of how serious this virus is. Covid 19 is not the flu.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> We don't stay home, wear masks and observe social distancing necessarily to protect ourselves, but to protect others in the event that we have unknowingly contracted the disease. You don't care if you infect others who are more vulnerable?


I find it amazingly careless that your risking your life from what you seem to think is a almost sure death by relying on someone else’s sanitary habits.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> Speaking for myself, I get the flu shot. Sometimes the protection is right on, other years not so much. But it provides better protection than not getting it.


Why have you and others waited years and years to start wearing a mask when you believe a mask will help prevent you getting the flue or other similar illness ?


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Redlands Okie said:


> Why have you and others waited years and years to start wearing a mask when you believe a mask will help prevent you getting the flue or other similar illness ?


Why? Because I've always followed medical advice. When I was a kid I had no choice, since my father was a doctor. But I found that it was pretty good advice.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Redlands Okie said:


> Why have you and others waited years and years to start wearing a mask when you believe a mask will help prevent you getting the flue or other similar illness ?


I don't believe masks help. Might as well lick your hands and go around touching everything the way most people handle their masks. But until covid started spreading bad, no one believed in social distancing and kept crowding strangers in stores. The only way to keep people away was a dish of bad beans, which worked for only so long.

Or people who are sick could just stay home! Maybe cold and flu remedy medicine should be illegal so sick people feel too sick to be out spreading whatever crap they are carrying.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Germs, cooties and airborne virals didn't just occur in 2020, they just got weaponized.
If you believe a mask helps then good for you.
If you would have waved a UV light 20 years ago while staying at your hotel/hospital/inlaws, or your own house, you might have been wearing one then.
This has become like a bad spin off (ie Aftermash, Brady Brides, Joanie Loves Chachi) that just doesn't wear well.


----------



## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

GTX63 said:


> Germs, cooties and airborne virals didn't just occur in 2020, they just got weaponized.
> If you believe a mask helps then good for you.
> If you would have waved a UV light 20 years ago while staying at your hotel/hospital/inlaws, or your own house, you might have been wearing one then.
> This has become like a bad spin off (ie Aftermash, Brady Brides, Joanie Loves Chachi) that just doesn't wear well.


Spot on. I find it odd that those who bash the idea of herd immunity went all in for herd manipulation. "Listen to the science, they say". What science? The science on this is all over the place depending on which scientists you listen to and which day it is. Dr. Fauci said Remdesivir is a valuable weapon against this virus. Now a large new study says it doesn't help at all. Fauci pushed our government to spend over a billion dollars buying the stuff. It was easy for government to totally manipulate those who think government should and can solve every problem and banish their fears. Really sad.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

poppy said:


> What science? The science on this is all over the place depending on which scientists you listen to and which day it is.


There is science that says face masks don't help?

Nonsense. There is no controversy over the effectiveness of face masks. All surgeons wear them.


----------



## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

During the "15 days to stop the spread" people went on multi-state quests to buy toilet paper. During the time period that any of that would have done any good, we had leaders encouraging visits to China Town, encouraging people to travel, encouraging people to attend large events, etc. All because an opposing leader, whom they didn't like, suggested that the virus could be a serious threat. The decision to keep liquor stores open, sell lottery tickets, and allow mega corporations to pack their stores while closing gyms and hair salons was very telling. The decision to purposefully kill off nursing home residents to boost death numbers was also very telling. The mask mandates came far too late to do anything but save face for those leaders, in the eyes of people unable to see reality. If a real, scientific study was performed on disease transmission with masks as worn by the general public, the results would likely show that it increases disease transmission. That study might have happened, and could be a reason for the mask mandates, to increase the infection rate as the natural infection curve wanes.


----------



## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> If a real, scientific study was performed on disease transmission with masks as worn by the general public, the results would likely show that it increases disease transmission.


That's simply ridiculous.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> There is science that says face masks don't help?
> 
> Nonsense. There is no controversy over the effectiveness of face masks. All surgeons wear them.


Surgeons don't fish a mask out of the console with a bunch of change, throw it on to walk in a store, pull it down on their chin to talk to a cashier, then throw it back in the same console, with some fresh change that has been in somebodies pocket. They aslo don't wear one past hundreds of people, then lay them on a restaurant table while they eat, and then put them back on.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> That's simply ridiculous.


"As worn by the general public". Not ridiculous at all. Maybe from under your rock, but not ridiculous to people that are cognizant.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

The debate on masks will end up holding the same stature as Ford vs Chevy, Glock vs 1911 and Great Taste vs Less Filling.
Meanwhile, I know of numerous folks who are now flat on their back broke.
Business owners who are living on savings, or less. 
Business owners who are selling off inventory, fixtures and assets to make it thru the month. They are having to eat muscle because there is no fat; some know they will never be able to afford to invest and restart their stores.
A "stimulus" isn't going to save them but they continue to watch the politicians fight and walk away from bills that were supposed to be "for the unemployed" yet because there is no money for illegals, or pet projects or an activist cause.
But if you are getting a check from your trust fund, your retirement, etc, you can stay home and have a late breakfast and watch the news and play with your dog.
The other people worry they won't have a home, money for food and may have to eat the dog.
Selective outrage wins again.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

barnbilder said:


> Surgeons don't fish a mask out of the console with a bunch of change, throw it on to walk in a store, pull it down on their chin to talk to a cashier, then throw it back in the same console, with some fresh change that has been in somebodies pocket. They aslo don't wear one past hundreds of people, then lay them on a restaurant table while they eat, and then put them back on.


I've seen masks on people that looked like they had a case of "bacon neck".
What a t shirt looks like on Tuesday after having been soaked thru with sweat on Monday.
I don't think they have seen a washing machine since they were pulled from the plasti wrap.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> The other people worry they won't have a home, money for food


Maybe you should start supporting social programs like welfare and food stamps.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Nevada said:


> Maybe you should start supporting social programs like welfare and food stamps.



It's all one big circle for you on the left. Listen to government and when government fails, rely on more government. Don't you see the problem there?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Nevada said:


> There is science that says face masks don't help?
> 
> Nonsense. There is no controversy over the effectiveness of face masks. All surgeons wear them.


Are you saying no one who wears a face mask gets the virus? At best, face masks only prolong the inevitable. Nearly all countries require face masks or did at some point. Look at the charts for those countries and see what happens. The lockdowns did work but were unsustainable. Cases are rising in places where most people wear masks. Look at Sweden. They were bashed for not locking down or requiring masks. The had a big spike in April but then a steady decline. Now they are averaging only 2 deaths per day. We, and most other countries mandated lockdown and masks and are still having outbreaks and clusters.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

poppy said:


> It's all one big circle for you on the left. Listen to government and when government fails, rely on more government.


Nailed it


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Maybe you should start supporting social programs like welfare and food stamps.


I think you missed the part where the government caused this with their nonsensical rules. 

It's unsafe to visit a mom and pop restaurant, gym, or beauty parlor (most of which rarely have more than a handful of people in them at a time), but perfectly safe for everyone to crowd into Walmart, Home Depot or grocery store, many times with a non-socially-distanced line out the door. Here, you can eat at a restaurant, but only outside, usually in roped-off areas of the parking lot. With tables just as close together as they would have been indoors. You couldn't send your kids to school, but you can send them to "learning centers" where they sit side by side with other children on computers talking to teachers who, I presume, are the ones being kept "safe" - not the volunteers at the learning centers or the children.

We're in crazy land, and the stupidity would be amusing if it weren't actually destroying lives.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Maybe you should start supporting social programs like welfare and food stamps.


Why would I support welfare and food stamps?


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

GTX63 said:


> Why would I support welfare and food stamps?


I was wondering that myself, seemed like a very random comment or simply another diversion.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Mish said:


> I think you missed the part where the government caused this with their nonsensical rules.
> 
> It's unsafe to visit a mom and pop restaurant, gym, or beauty parlor (most of which rarely have more than a handful of people in them at a time), but perfectly safe for everyone to crowd into Walmart, Home Depot or grocery store, many times with a non-socially-distanced line out the door. Here, you can eat at a restaurant, but only outside, usually in roped-off areas of the parking lot. With tables just as close together as they would have been indoors. You couldn't send your kids to school, but you can send them to "learning centers" where they sit side by side with other children on computers talking to teachers who, I presume, are the ones being kept "safe" - not the volunteers at the learning centers or the children.
> 
> We're in crazy land, and the stupidity would be amusing if it weren't actually destroying lives.


Looters/rioters are allowed to skip the rules also.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

GTX63 said:
Why would I support welfare and food stamps?



no really said:


> I was wondering that myself, seemed like a very random comment or simply another diversion.


Nevada may not choose to respond, but the thing is-

If people are operating their own businesses and companies, investing, hiring people, buying goods, paying taxes, and generally helping to support and serve local communities, why would they want to sit on the porch every 3rd of the month and wait for the mailman?
Why would I support that?
And why is that any less of a tragedy? Because of 200k death certificates that had coronavirus added after a comma.
Outrage at one yet not the other is why I don't buy much of what is being sold.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Nevada said:


> Speaking for myself, I get the flu shot. Sometimes the protection is right on, other years not so much. But it provides better protection than not getting it.


Yep, but, many years the Flu shot does little. Why don't we shut down the economy with such is the case? Are the lives taken by flu, worth less than those taken by COVID?


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## nodak3 (Feb 5, 2003)

Stupidity abounds, apparently.

The choice is not between wear masks, distance, wash your hands, and close the economy or no mask, no distancing, no hygiene, let's get out and about and save the economy.

Hence the stupidity. IF we do the masks, the distancing, and the hygiene THEN we can do a whole heck of lot of saving the economy. The economy will not crash if we don't all go to grandma's for Thanksgiving, or take the kiddies trick or treating, or gasp even close the school buildings if a community has a run up of the virus.

We are in a very rural area, and while some brag they don't know anyone who has gotten sick or died, some of us know a number of people in each of those categories.

And it did not have to be this way: we could mask, distance, limit large gatherings, run the schools more sensibly, and save the economy.

Instead our local powers that be are hell bent to save the economy no matter how many lives are lost. And who loses? Some lose their lives, some lose their health, and a whole lot more lose their jobs cause guess what? Nobody wants to shop, eat out, or spend money in a hot spot. Folks go out to work what they must and then go home and hunker. Those that do not have to go out at all don't. We don't spend local because it isn't safe, so we buy everything on line.

THIS will tank the economy, cause hardship, and cause more loss of life than covid. And it could have been prevented with simple face masks, distancing, closing large meetings, hygiene, and common sense.

The left is not pushing masks to control you. The right is denying the use of masks because they don't give a flip who dies if it lines their pockets. Which, in the ultimate irony of all, it won't. It will bankrupt this country not to get control of the virus.

Your money or your life? Covid lives vs collateral damage lives? NO! Doing the right public health things will give you a better chance at your money AND your life.

But as I said, stupidity abounds.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

So your point is that people who don't agree with you are stupid?
I do agree with you, skipping thanksgiving won't crash the economy. That already happened.
You are also the 2nd poster to use the left/right ideology, and the health before wealth slant is a platform shown to be another episode of gaslighting


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

nodak3 said:


> Stupidity abounds, apparently.
> 
> The choice is not between wear masks, distance, wash your hands, and close the economy or no mask, no distancing, no hygiene, let's get out and about and save the economy.
> 
> ...


I can take a guess you are not deemed an ecentuial worker?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

nodak3 said:


> Stupidity abounds, apparently.
> 
> The choice is not between wear masks, distance, wash your hands, and close the economy or no mask, no distancing, no hygiene, let's get out and about and save the economy.
> 
> ...


Except in places like where I live (California), we have been forced to do all of the things you mention since about April (other than wash your hands, so far no threats to fine or jail us if we don't do _that_) and our economy STILL has not opened completely up. In fact, our illustrious governor is putting more regulations on things (for example, now, instead of allowing you to take your mask off while eating or drinking OUTSIDE the restaurant, because those still haven't opened, we are being told to pull your mask down and pull it back up with every bite you take - which increases the odds of getting germs in your mouth/nose as you are touching "dirty" items and then putting your hands all over your mask and face, and into your mouth, repeatedly - stupidity, if you believe the mask hype, and stupidity if you don't). Constant threats by the powers that be in Sacramento (over a 7 hour drive away from where I live, which would be like most of you having the next state over decide your fate) to downgrade or upgrade our threat level - which indicates how many businesses may be open or must be closed - by how the media portrays our behavior (Oh no! People are on the beaches in the summer!) or how Sacramento interprets our Covid test numbers.

At this point, I find it very hard to believe this is nothing more than a control tactic. The right isn't pushing not wearing masks here (the right barely can get a word in sideways without being literally pummeled into submission). People have been playing by the rules of pointless and stupid for months, and months, and months, and the boot is still either stepping on the neck of the economy or hovering right over it, threatening to stomp with any small move you may make that they don't like. 

Left or right, makes no difference to me, other than the elite controlling the peons. Peons better learn their place, or else. Especially peons in counties that have the tendency to not vote properly.

It may be different where you live, but the state in which I live, a place almost completely controlled by one party, this is obviously a political game. A stupid, dangerous game, but an obvious game nonetheless.


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## Rodeo's Bud (Apr 10, 2020)

GTX63 said:


> I've seen masks on people that looked like they had a case of "bacon neck".
> What a t shirt looks like on Tuesday after having been soaked thru with sweat on Monday.
> I don't think they have seen a washing machine since they were pulled from the plasti wrap.


That would be me. Then I washed them and they smelled and tasted much better.

Then I stuck it on my dash, ate taco bell, drank tea, sneezed a few times and stuffed in in my pocket with some old gum.

Smells the same again.

OK, I didn't have any old gum.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Mish said:


> Except in places like where I live (California), we have been forced to do all of the things you mention since about April (other than wash your hands, so far no threats to fine or jail us if we don't do _that_) and our economy STILL has not opened completely up. In fact, our illustrious governor is putting more regulations on things (for example, now, instead of allowing you to take your mask off while eating or drinking OUTSIDE the restaurant, because those still haven't opened, we are being told to pull your mask down and pull it back up with every bite you take - which increases the odds of getting germs in your mouth/nose as you are touching "dirty" items and then putting your hands all over your mask and face, and into your mouth, repeatedly - stupidity, if you believe the mask hype, and stupidity if you don't). Constant threats by the powers that be in Sacramento (over a 7 hour drive away from where I live, which would be like most of you having the next state over decide your fate) to downgrade or upgrade our threat level - which indicates how many businesses may be open or must be closed - by how the media portrays our behavior (Oh no! People are on the beaches in the summer!) or how Sacramento interprets our Covid test numbers.
> 
> At this point, I find it very hard to believe this is nothing more than a control tactic. The right isn't pushing not wearing masks here (the right barely can get a word in sideways without being literally pummeled into submission). People have been playing by the rules of pointless and stupid for months, and months, and months, and the boot is still either stepping on the neck of the economy or hovering right over it, threatening to stomp with any small move you may make that they don't like.
> 
> ...


It almost looks like an attempt to destroy small businesses and break the middle class. 

I've talked to a friend I know that are having trouble being able to access their dialyses treatments. Getting treatment for suspected cancer, heart issues and other tests is not coming in a timely manner. There be a lot of problems and deaths from the focus being so targeted on covid to the detriment of other illnesses.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

More evidence that masks are just good for virtue signaling and pushing political agendas.









Efficacy of masks and face coverings in controlling outward aerosol particle emission from expiratory activities - Scientific Reports


The COVID-19 pandemic triggered a surge in demand for facemasks to protect against disease transmission. In response to shortages, many public health authorities have recommended homemade masks as acceptable alternatives to surgical masks and N95 respirators. Although mask wearing is intended...




www.nature.com


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## mikemike (Feb 16, 2016)

We know a couple in the hospital with COVID. Both are in their high 80's and poor health. The first week they tested negative now they are both positive and we really don't expect them to make it. 
Political yes it is 
The 
End


----------



## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Nevada said:


> There is science that says face masks don't help?
> 
> Nonsense. There is no controversy over the effectiveness of face masks. All *surgeons *wear them.


Those of us that are civil are not cutting people open on the street!


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## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

Nevada said:


> Maybe you should start supporting social programs like welfare and food stamps.


GTX63, as well as the rest of us including you, already support social programs like welfare and food stamps...it’s called TAXES!!!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

no really said:


> It almost looks like an attempt to destroy small businesses and break the middle class.
> 
> I've talked to a friend I know that are having trouble being able to access their dialyses treatments. Getting treatment for suspected cancer, heart issues and other tests is not coming in a timely manner. There be a lot of problems and deaths from the focus being so targeted on covid to the detriment of other illnesses.


We've seen quite a few die from Covid related treatment delays in critical surgeries, others still waiting for rescheduled surgeries and quite a few just aren't getting doctor's appoointments in a timely manner. 

We're losing patients in long term care facilities from what is being described as failure to thrive due to isolation. We always think of the restrictions on family visits but those patients are being being kept in their rooms with the absolute minimum of human contact. Meals are often delivered to their rooms and trays are picked up later on. Nobody is even monitoring if they have eaten enough to sustain themselves and in one case, an elderly dementia patient actually chocked to death on his dinner and was found dead when the tray was picked up later on. 

In order to prove to me the lockdowns worked, we need an accurate count of the collateral casualties as well.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

po boy said:


> Those of us that are civil are not cutting people open on the street!


Surgeons use those masks in an already sterile environment, which is much different than a trip to the grocery store. 

I've questioned the homemade masks for months and Canada recently upgraded their recommendations on them to include mention proper fit and in order for them to be effective, they need a filter between the layers of fabric, which makes a whole lot more sense to me. 

The strongest recommendation is that Canadians make them to either allow for purchased filters or use woven propylene materials such as a piece cut from a recyled shopping bag. 

Essentially, Canada has deemed the inexpensive homemade masks as ineffective.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

wr said:


> We've seen quite a few die from Covid related treatment delays in critical surgeries, others still waiting for rescheduled surgeries and quite a few just aren't getting doctor's appoointments in a timely manner.
> 
> We're losing patients in long term care facilities from what is being described as failure to thrive due to isolation. We always think of the restrictions on family visits but those patients are being being kept in their rooms with the absolute minimum of human contact. Meals are often delivered to their rooms and trays are picked up later on. Nobody is even monitoring if they have eaten enough to sustain themselves and in one case, an elderly dementia patient actually chocked to death on his dinner and was found dead when the tray was picked up later on.
> 
> In order to prove to me the lockdowns worked, we need an accurate count of the collateral casualties as well.


We also need to add in the increase in suicides, I feel it hasn't reached the peak yet. When many who have been laid off and haven't been able to keep up with their house payments, rent and utilities find out they will have no where to go and their credit is shot. To the point it will be difficult to find even basic housing. The ripples are just getting started. IMHO


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

no really said:


> We also need to add in the increase in suicides, I feel it hasn't reached the peak yet. When many who have been laid off and haven't been able to keep up with their house payments, rent and utilities find out they will have no where to go and their credit is shot. To the point it will be difficult to find even basic housing. The ripples are just getting started. IMHO


I completely agree. Like most people, I don't have any answers but I also don't feel that lockdowns were the success that many believe.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

no really said:


> We also need to add in the increase in suicides, I feel it hasn't reached the peak yet. When many who have been laid off and haven't been able to keep up with their house payments, rent and utilities find out they will have no where to go and their credit is shot. To the point it will be difficult to find even basic housing. The ripples are just getting started. IMHO


True and you cant buy OR rent a decent house without credit.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> True and you cant buy OR rent a decent house without credit.


IMHO this is going to be a much larger crisis than covid.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

no really said:


> We also need to add in the increase in suicides, I feel it hasn't reached the peak yet. When many who have been laid off and haven't been able to keep up with their house payments, rent and utilities find out they will have no where to go and their credit is shot. To the point it will be difficult to find even basic housing. The ripples are just getting started. IMHO


Yes, now that it appears that the shutdowns have achieved their sole intention, and their is little hope for economic upturn, there are two choices for a lot of folks. Russian roulette or government assistance.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> and their is little hope for economic upturn


Investment bankers disagree. Goldman Sachs takes the position that the recovery will go faster under Biden.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Investment bankers disagree. Goldman Sachs takes the position that the recovery will go faster under Biden.


Because Biden has already given them billions for a bailout. Why not count on it again?


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

Not to mention they're all in bed with each other. Why not be confident.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

I would rather see Goldman Sachs muckity mucks playing Russian roulette instead of decent people caught in the crossfire of their world domination plans.


----------



## jeepgrrl (Jun 3, 2020)

Lol Goldman Sachs...you actually trust anything they say after their role in the 2008 financial crisis? There’s the writing on the wall for ya!


----------



## JohnStinson (Dec 8, 2020)

barnbilder said:


> I would rather see Goldman Sachs muckity mucks playing Russian roulette instead of decent people caught in the crossfire of their world domination plans.


Well... personally I agree with you, but...


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

He's back


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## keenataz (Feb 17, 2009)

HDRider said:


> He's back


I never really left


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Even though you get the shot keep wearing your mask, distancing and shelter in place until we all get the vaccine. We all have to get the vaccine. It truly never ends


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

It really bothers me that there is this idea that some guy in a distant place knows what's best for me.

Just can't really wrap my head around that. 

Advice from a system that is known to harm people and also foots no liability if someone is harmed. From a system whose "help" comes in the form of a pill, not a lifestyle change. A pill that will cause a problem and then you have to take another pill to fix that problem. If people want to choose that route, fine, good for them, it's called a choice. As in, I choose not to eat certain foods that I have reactions to. I could eat them and take a pill to help with the reaction, or I could not eat the food. A choice. An individual choice. God given free will.

The fact that they are so very pushy with their recommendations under the idea that it is for people's safety and health is ridiculous. If that were true, and the illusionary figures of authority really cared then explain cigarettes, fast food, food additives, toxic hair dye, make up, perfume, cleaners. If people have a choice with what they eat and consume otherwise, they should have a choice with everything else they put in their body. 

Everyone walks their own path and the need for some people and agencies to say get on this path or else is pathetic and the work of dark forces.

I've already given it too much time this morning.


----------



## justascout1 (Jun 4, 2019)

We have to flatten the curve to protect hospitals from being overrun. 

We need to wait for a vaccine. 

We have to get everyone vaccinated. 



There’s a novel pneumonia discovered in Kazakhstan. We have to flatten the curve...


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> It really bothers me that there is this idea that some guy in a distant place knows what's best for me.
> 
> Just can't really wrap my head around that.
> 
> ...


People getting vaccinated only benefits us all. The medical community is offering an end to this deadly pandemic. I don't know why anyone would not take advantage of that.

As for lifestyle changes, from where I sit it appears that the same people who oppose getting the vaccine are the same people who don't want to wear masks, social distance, or stay home until the pandemic passes. They don't want the vaccine and they don't want lifestyle changes.

Simply put, if you get the vaccine then you're part of the answer, and if you refuse the vaccine you're part of the problem. There's nothing smart about refusing this vaccine.


----------



## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Nevada said:


> People getting vaccinated only benefits us all. The medical community is offering an end to this deadly pandemic. I don't know why anyone would not take advantage of that.
> 
> Simply put, if you get the vaccine then you're part of the answer, and if you refuse the vaccine you're part of the problem. There's nothing smart about refusing this vaccine.


Ha ha ha.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> Simply put, if you get the vaccine then you're part of the answer, and if you refuse the vaccine you're part of the problem. There's nothing smart about refusing this vaccine.


I know you struggle with direct questions, but I am a patient person.

You are protected if you get the shot, right?

I am unprotected if I chose not to get the shot, right?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

A young family of three say they were heading to New York to see the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree and to visit family in New Jersey last week when United Airlines forced them off the plane before takeoff because, despite their best efforts, their two-year-old daughter refused to wear a mask.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1337872192281907201


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HDRider said:


> I know you struggle with direct questions, but I am a patient person.
> 
> You are protected if you get the shot, right?
> 
> I am unprotected if I chose not to get the shot, right?


We know that the Pfizer vaccine is 95% effective, so protection is not absolute. Still, it's better to have a vaccine that's 95% effective than no vaccine at all.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Social distancing, masks still necessary after getting COVID-19 vaccine: Fauci


Dr. Anthony Fauci said Sunday it will still be necessary to social distance, wear masks and take other COVID-19 precautions after a vaccine becomes available to Americans. “I would recommend …




nypost.com


----------



## SLFarmMI (Feb 21, 2013)

Nevada said:


> People getting vaccinated only benefits us all. The medical community is offering an end to this deadly pandemic. I don't know why anyone would not take advantage of that.
> 
> As for lifestyle changes, from where I sit it appears that the same people who oppose getting the vaccine are the same people who don't want to wear masks, social distance, or stay home until the pandemic passes. They don't want the vaccine and they don't want lifestyle changes.
> 
> Simply put, if you get the vaccine then you're part of the answer, and if you refuse the vaccine you're part of the problem. There's nothing smart about refusing this vaccine.


You seem to be forgetting that this is a brand new vaccine with zero data on long term side effects. You can't imagine why that would be concerning to folks? What are the effects of this vaccine 2, 5, 10 years out? Do you know? Does anyone?

No way am I getting a brand new, fresh out of the gate vaccine that has no long term data behind it.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

Nevada said:


> As for lifestyle changes, from where I sit it appears that the same people who oppose getting the vaccine are the same people who don't want to wear masks, social distance, or stay home until the pandemic passes. They don't want the vaccine and they don't want *lifestyle changes.*


It's true, people who take care of themselves and don't rely on illusionary figures of authority to take care of them, are able to have an independent thought and therefore, most likely, are not afraid.

The lifestyle changes I was referring to are daily practices such as,
Limiting or eliminating sugar, gluten and dairy - all of which contribute to inflammation in the body, which contributes to disease.

Avoiding alcohol, excess caffeine, cigarettes, perscriptions, over the counter meds, toxins in personal care products and cleaning products, which all contribute to ones on toxicity. Toxicity contributes to disease. 

Breathing deeply, oil pulling, meditating/praying, being in nature, spending time with your loved ones, moving your body, keeping your body warm when out in cold weather, keeping hydrated, especially in warm weather, avoiding mindless entertainment and instead developing hobbies based on your own interests.

It is absolutely 100 percent everyone's individual choice how to care for their own body. I am not an expert, but I have studied these ideas. I am not suggesting everyone should do exactly as I wrote. We are individuals and you need to figure out what works for you. But don't tell me to do what works for you. None of what I listed is mandated or even suggested. None. of. it. Where are the recommendations on how to support your immune system while you wait for the vaccine? 

I know nothing I wrote here is going to change your mind, that's fine and I don't want to argue, really, I don't have a need to convince you. But I wanted to be clear about what I meant by lifestyle changes. 


sidenote: Do you have any idea how many people walk around downtown with a mask on, outside, and no winter hat? It's 15 degrees and most people are not wearing a hat. Do most people not feel the cold?😳


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> People getting vaccinated only benefits us all. The medical community is offering an end to this deadly pandemic. I don't know why anyone would not take advantage of that.
> 
> As for lifestyle changes, from where I sit it appears that the same people who oppose getting the vaccine are the same people who don't want to wear masks, social distance, or stay home until the pandemic passes. They don't want the vaccine and they don't want lifestyle changes.
> 
> Simply put, if you get the vaccine then you're part of the answer, and if you refuse the vaccine you're part of the problem. There's nothing smart about refusing this vaccine.


I'm undecided about the vaccine but I'm pretty far down the list on getting it as well. My concerns lie with the lack of testing, unspoken side effects and the recent disucssion about a newly mutated form of the virus.

Since there is only 3 months of compiled data, we were told that scientists don't actually know how long the vaccination is effective. Do you know something they don't and does your opinion outweigh advice people receive from their doctors? 

When I spoke with my doctor about the vaccine in recent days, his response was much different than yours and indicated that there was plenty of time to make an informed decision and he was keeping a close eye of the people having serious allergic reactions. 

I would suggest that people should do what they feel is best for them and that includes those concerned about side effects, their own medical history and wanting to make an informed decision deserve better than condescending comments and rhetoric.


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## newfieannie (Dec 24, 2006)

some around here want to have the people who have had the vac. to show proof. i don't think our top doc is having any of that. how bad would that be when people start shunning because they will like they do in some of the churches around here. there will be this class and that class etc,etc.

in any case i don't plan on getting it. i'm high risk i guess but i'm in excellent shape and i have never had even a flu shot. i'll wear my mask the rest of my life if i have to the few times i go out. although i'm not convinced it works.

it's too early. we can't know if this is safe or not. i remember the thalidomide pills for morning sickness. that was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread and we all know what happened there. when i look at my darlin today. i'm so glad i refused to take them. ~Georgia


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

By the time there is enough of the vaccine to get to me, most people will have been vaccinated and covid won't be a problem. _Unless_, the vaccine is not as effective as they claim. I also hate wearing a mask and have a good medical reason to not wear one at certain times. I also don't want to change my lifestyle, but I hate crowds, close talkers and I have lots of stuff to do at home.



wdcutrsdaughter said:


> sidenote: Do you have any idea how many people walk around downtown with a mask on, outside, and no winter hat? It's 15 degrees and most people are not wearing a hat. Do most people not feel the cold?😳


I'd be one of those people walking around when it's 15 degrees with no hat. Except for a ball cap to keep my hair up in the summer I don't wear hats. I might pull the hood up on my unzipped jacket. But then, I won't be wearing a mask outside. I still haven't found one that allows me to breathe and see at the same time.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

SLFarmMI said:


> You seem to be forgetting that this is a brand new vaccine with zero data on long term side effects. You can't imagine why that would be concerning to folks? What are the effects of this vaccine 2, 5, 10 years out? Do you know? Does anyone?
> 
> No way am I getting a brand new, fresh out of the gate vaccine that has no long term data behind it.


Those are fair concerns, but keep in mind that I turned 70 last summer. The fact is that there are risks in my not getting a vaccine. I also would like to get back to eating terrific meals at casinos, and the vaccines will make that possible. I plan to take the vaccine when it becomes available to me.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

The worst is supposed to be over by end of January. With high-risk patients and health care professionals being the 1st to be vaccinated, the number of deaths and hospitalizations are supposed to plummet. When you add in all the people who have already had Covid-19 plus those with natural immunity, the virus is going to have a harder time spreading.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Those are fair concerns, but keep in mind that I turned 70 last summer. The fact is that there are risks in my not getting a vaccine. I also would like to get back to eating terrific meals at casinos, and the vaccines will make that possible. I plan to take the vaccine when it becomes available to me.


Good for you. This is what I love about freedom of choice. 

Just remember to let us keep our freedoms too.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

I suspect there will be serious discussion early next year about mandatory vaccinations, mandatory masks, and mandatory lockdowns (except for the expendables, and nice dinners for governors and such)


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> Those are fair concerns, but keep in mind that I turned 70 last summer. The fact is that there are risks in my not getting a vaccine. I also would like to get back to eating terrific meals at casinos, and the vaccines will make that possible. I plan to take the vaccine when it becomes available to me.


I would strongly suggest you do what you feel is best for you but insisting others should take the vaccine regardless of their concerns because you want to eat out seems a bit self absorbed.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wr said:


> I would strongly suggest you do what you feel is best for you but insisting others should take the vaccine regardless of their concerns because you want to eat out seems a bit self absorbed.


And here I was trying to be nice lol.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> I would strongly suggest you do what you feel is best for you but insisting others should take the vaccine regardless of their concerns because you want to eat out seems a bit self absorbed.


I'm not insisting that others do anything. I'm just saying that taking the vaccine benefits us all. My eating-at-casinos remark was intended to say that businesses could open back up, which all of us want to see.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (KTUU) - The first adverse reaction to the COVID-19 vaccine in the U.S. happened Tuesday in Juneau, Alaska, members of the Alaska COVID-19 Vaccine Task Force said Wednesday.

Alaska’s Chief Medical Officer Dr. Anne Zink said a health care worker at Juneau’s Bartlett Regional Hospital had an anaphylactic reaction to the vaccine 10 minutes after being vaccinated.

The female health care worker felt flush, was short of breath and was transferred to the emergency room.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HDRider said:


> ANCHORAGE, Alaska (KTUU) - The first adverse reaction to the COVID-19 vaccine in the U.S. happened Tuesday in Juneau, Alaska, members of the Alaska COVID-19 Vaccine Task Force said Wednesday.
> 
> Alaska’s Chief Medical Officer Dr. Anne Zink said a health care worker at Juneau’s Bartlett Regional Hospital had an anaphylactic reaction to the vaccine 10 minutes after being vaccinated.
> 
> The female health care worker felt flush, was short of breath and was transferred to the emergency room.


Of course, people with allergies to food or medicine need to discuss the vaccine with their doctor before getting immunized.


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> We know that the Pfizer vaccine is 95% effective, so protection is not absolute. Still, it's better to have a vaccine that's 95% effective than no vaccine at all.


You really should read up on the 95% effectivity claim before repeating it, as should have the media reporting:

This is not how vaccine effectivity is calculated


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Hiro said:


> You really should read up on the 95% effectivity claim before repeating it, as should have the media reporting:
> 
> This is not how vaccine effectivity is calculated


From the article.

_*Pfizer’s vaccine is now available to anyone who wants one. *_

OK, where do I go to get mine?


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

Nevada said:


> From the article.
> 
> _*Pfizer’s vaccine is now available to anyone who wants one. *_
> 
> OK, where do I go to get mine?


I suspect it won't be long for you to get yours. A lot of the doses that have been allocated are being refused. I didn't write the article and do not believe every syllable. But, when I read the initial efficacy claims, I rolled my eyes. It wasn't until the details came out that I noted they didn't do diagnostic testing on all the participants, both placebo and vaccinated. That is no way to run a vaccine study, let alone claim 95% efficacy. But, have at it.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Nevada said:


> We know that the Pfizer vaccine is 95% effective, so protection is not absolute. Still, it's better to have a vaccine that's 95% effective than no vaccine at all.


For the tenth of a percent of people having serious complications from covid, I guess a supposed 95 percent successful vaccine is good news. Keep in mind we have had flue vaccines available for many years. Still have the flue, people still get the flue, some even get the flue after taking the vaccine. People are still dying as a result of flue complications. And companies are still selling and profiting from flue vaccines. 

Absolutely NO reason for all business to not be open and customers deciding where, when, and how to shop. 


Best of luck with your shots just the same.


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## gilberte (Sep 25, 2004)

If you want the vaccine, go for it. Don't try to force it on me. If my head's cold I'll put on a hat.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

There are adverse reactions to vaccines, has not as much to do with the vaccine as it has to do with freak sensitivity issues in the individual getting the shot. If you can get anything close to 90 percent immunity from a vaccination program, you are doing great. If a vaccine works, then herd immunity works, and the untold thousands of people that have had the virus are effectively vaccinated. The vaccine could have been helpful right after it was created during a weekend last January. But we had to jump through a bunch of bureaucratic hurdles to appease paper pushers and politicians. There was one guy that sped that whole process up, won't mention his name, but it would have taken about four years. But with today's technology, vaccine creation is pretty much a plug and play process. Academic elites have been taking a bootleg nasal version since last spring. With the storage temperature requirements this vaccine has though, there are likely to be a whole lot of people getting ineffective vaccine shots, if it's really that temperature dependent. Whenever you are depending on a chain of competency, results will vary.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

European markets are set to trade lower on Monday as investors monitor a fast-spreading new variant of the coronavirus strain that has shut down much of the U.K. 

The variant is thought to be up to 70% more transmissible than the original strain of the disease. The World Health Organization said it has so far been identified in Denmark, the Netherlands and Australia. 

It led to several countries in Europe and elsewhere to block travel from Britain. France, Germany, Italy, Ireland and the Netherlands all barred flights from the U.K., while Canada and Israel have done the same. 









European stocks fall sharply amid jitters over new coronavirus strain; Stoxx 600 down 2.3%


European markets fell sharply on Monday as investors monitored a fast-spreading new variant of the coronavirus strain in the U.K.




www.cnbc.com


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

HDRider said:


> European markets are set to trade lower on Monday as investors monitor a fast-spreading new variant of the coronavirus strain that has shut down much of the U.K.
> 
> The variant is thought to be up to 70% more transmissible than the original strain of the disease. The World Health Organization said it has so far been identified in Denmark, the Netherlands and Australia.
> 
> ...


We should name it Covid 20, and close liquor stores, big box stores and package deliveries for the next year.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

barnbilder said:


> We should name it Covid 20, and close liquor stores, big box stores and package deliveries for the next year.


That is only fair


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

barnbilder said:


> We should name it Covid 20, and close liquor stores, big box stores and package deliveries for the next year.


It appears that the newly developed vaccines will also work for the new strain virus, which gives us a leg up on ending it. But vaccine distribution of the masses is still months away, perhaps reaching most people in late spring or summer. That means we need to do what we can to curb the spread.

Closing liquor stores places a burden on the public. I know that churches got political & legal mileage out of the term "liquor store" in a recent supreme court case, but it sends an inaccurate message. Liquor stores aren't important because they sell liquor, they're important because they are also modern-day corner grocery stores. Many people depend on corner liquor stores to source fresh milk, bread and eggs between trips to supermarkets. Some elderly people actually do all of their grocery shopping at liquor stores because their perimeter is so small.

I don't expect package delivery to end or big box stores to close. They'll just need to observe social distancing a face mask guidelines.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Nevada said:


> It appears that the newly developed vaccines will also work for the new strain virus,


Dr. Scott Gottlieb said existing Covid-19 vaccines are* likely* to provide protection against it.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Closing liquor stores places a burden on the public. I know that churches got political & legal mileage out of the term "liquor store" in a recent supreme court case, but it sends an inaccurate message. Liquor stores aren't important because they sell liquor, they're important because they are also modern-day corner grocery stores. Many people depend on corner liquor stores to source fresh milk, bread and eggs between trips to supermarkets. Some elderly people actually do all of their grocery shopping at liquor stores because their perimeter is so small.
> 
> I don't expect package delivery to end or big box stores to close. They'll just need to observe social distancing a face mask guidelines.


What about the folks who don't cook; the elderly who go out to their corner mom and pop shop for coffee and eggs?
How about the old timer that can't drive but has that local 2nd hand store where he gets his shirts and shoes?
Maybe those people don't use or aren't able to shop online.
See, as you stated, some elderly actually do their shopping nearby because their perimeter is so small.
If I am an old timer, that argument only stretches as far as you want it to.

And if liquor stores aren't important, then close the ones down that don't sell milk and sugar.
Empty the shelves at Walmart of big screens and watches and bras and allow them to sell only basic necessities like bread and milk.
Wouldn't this be an accurate and fair absorption into the "guidelines"?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> It appears that the newly developed vaccines will also work for the new strain virus, which gives us a leg up on ending it. But vaccine distribution of the masses is still months away, perhaps reaching most people in late spring or summer. That means we need to do what we can to curb the spread.
> 
> Closing liquor stores places a burden on the public. I know that churches got political & legal mileage out of the term "liquor store" in a recent supreme court case, but it sends an inaccurate message. Liquor stores aren't important because they sell liquor, they're important because they are also modern-day corner grocery stores. Many people depend on corner liquor stores to source fresh milk, bread and eggs between trips to supermarkets. Some elderly people actually do all of their grocery shopping at liquor stores because their perimeter is so small.
> 
> I don't expect package delivery to end or big box stores to close. They'll just need to observe social distancing a face mask guidelines.


Cant buy milk in Liquor stores here.


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## nchobbyfarm (Apr 10, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> Cant buy milk in Liquor stores here.


Here the liquor stores are run by the county government and sale nothing but liquor.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Here the liquor stores are run by the county government and sale nothing but liquor.


Ours and Missouri are private and only sell beer, wine and liquor.

Some convenience stores and supermarkets sell beer and wine, no liquor.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

nchobbyfarm said:


> Here the liquor stores are run by the county government and sale nothing but liquor.


I remember a while back, was buying liquor in Pa. I went in and saw a state trooper at the register and asked them what they were doing there. I figured they had got robbed.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

HDRider said:


> Ours and Missouri are private and only sell beer, wine and liquor.
> 
> Some convenience stores and supermarkets sell beer and wine, no liquor.


Ours is the same but Nevada must be different. I bet you could probably get a hooker in one too.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

mreynolds said:


> Cant buy milk in Liquor stores here.


You can't buy milk at a liqour store here either. The official government statement indicated that liqour stores and weed shops must remain open to help those with addictions but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that both products are taxed. 

Most mom & pop stores are closing down again because they can't afford to stay open at less than 15% of fire code capacity but I don't see anyone counting numbers at my local Walmart, nor does my local Walmart even a capacity limit sign in their window, as required by all other businesses.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Well in the communist wealth of VA, liquor stores are property of the state and only sell liquor. And they stayed open, while other small businesses were shuttered.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

mreynolds said:


> Ours is the same but Nevada must be different.


I don't think anyone depends on corner convenience stores more than people in New York City.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Nevada said:


> I don't think anyone depends on corner convenience stores more than people in New York City.


I dont recall NYC selling liquor in the corner gas station when I was there last. Did something change since then?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

mreynolds said:


> I dont recall NYC selling liquor in the corner gas station when I was there last. Did something change since then?


The governor got an Emmy


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

HDRider said:


> The governor got an Emmy



You misspelled enema.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

What are the potential long-term hazards of COVID vaccines?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

California will stay locked down until 2022? Maybe longer. Their governor is amazing.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

HDRider said:


> California will stay locked down until 2022? Maybe longer. Their governor is amazing.


Doubtful. We'll mostly be back to normal by end of summer or early autumn. After that, we'll be concentrating on restoring employment.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> Doubtful. We'll mostly be back to normal by end of summer or early autumn. After that, we'll be concentrating on restoring employment.


Normal for post 1975 Lebanon maybe.


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