# Skinny sheep



## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

We've been trying to fatten up our 5 new lambs for a month. I guess I expected them to put on a little weight but perhaps the shipping stress was more than I expected.

These lambs are fairly recently weaned - somewhere between 3 and 4 months old I would guess. They are East Friesians and Friesian/Churro crosses. Maybe I don't even know what their body condition should be like (new to sheep...) but you can feel every rib and you can feel their spine sticking out over their abdomen. Gives me the creeps every time I touch them. I can only assume that's bad.

They've been on coastal pasture with some browse as well. We are rotating them to new pasture once a week now with the electric fence. They all have practically no worms (thought I was doing the fecals wrong until I FINALLY found an egg) and don't seem to have any other parasites (lice, mites, etc). They used to get alfalfa hay as well, but they mostly just pulled it out of the manager and trampled it or ignored it. They seem to like the coastal better. They also get about 1/2 pound of grain a day (oats, barley, BOSS, beet pulp, molasses - mixed for our dairy goats).

They have plenty of fresh water and free choice sheep minerals.

Any tips? Should we "force" them to eat alfalfa by restricting their pasture? More grain? Different grain? Or perhaps they just need more time. These are not being fattened for slaughter. Just trying to bring them up to what I feel would be a healthier weight.

Thanks!


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

Hmm, it is hard to say without feeling them myself. Friesians are smaller sheep (but not tiny). I've only seen them once, never got to lay my hands on them to feel their condition. With my sheep, I body score them feeling between the last rib and the start of the hip. 

When you say you can feel the spine, is it rounded or sharp? Also is the eye (the area on either side of the spine) full or depressed? If there is some covering of the spine and the eye is full, then they are fine. If all you feel is bone and they are very prominent (ie the eye is depressed), then I would think there is something going on. 

A 1/2 lb of grain each should be enough. On good pasture, I don't feed any grain and by 6 months my lambs are over 100 lbs each. If they have good pasture, they won't eat much hay. (I don't know what BOSS is, a lot of people feed COB (corn, oats, barley)).

If you pull back the eyelid, is it a nice red/pink or pale to white? If it is not red/pink, then they could have barber pole worm.


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## funnyfarmnatura (May 27, 2009)

What kind of minerals are you providing?


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

The spine is bony on the sides between the ribs and the pelvis. So I guess I would say the eye is depressed. I will squeeze on them again tomorrow to be sure. But I'm pretty sure it's as you say.

BOSS is black oil sunflower seeds. Just a little mixed in with mostly 50/50 oats and barley.

The pasture is good coastal and they are eating it down quick! I though we would only have to move the electric fence every 2 weeks, but it's more like every 5 days! We are getting a second fence.

The fecals didn't show any barber pole worm eggs (well, actually, that was the ONE egg I found), but I will rerun anyway. Silly me, I haven't checked the eye membranes!

The minerals are a loose mix formulated for sheep (and just sheep). I can't remember the name - I will look it up when I'm back on the farm tomorrow.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

If your sheep are definitely healthy, no worm load for sure, I wouldn't worry to much.
My sheep are carrying a nice fat layer by the end of fall but in spring they loose it all and thin out for summer. Not skinny, just lean. 
My sheep always have a nice muscle build but mine are dual heavy breeds.
With the wool they dont need a fat layer in summer.

My sheep put on their winter fat with just pasture. They dont need anything else to plump up. The seasonal changes seems to trigger fat strores.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

Beorcaile (Shelley) had issues with not being able to get her e. friesian crosses to put on weight last year, you can always ask her for suggestions if you see her onboard. And Eioeiomom (Deb) breeds e. friesians - she'll have insights into the breed, too.

Can you weigh them to see if what you are doing is effective or not? Last year I had my lambs develop a very quick case of bottlejaw - once thoroughly addressing the parasite issue I started weighing them weekly while I could still pick them up and see over their wooly bodies to be able to read the scale. The ram lamb averaged a 12 lb/month gain for the two months that I could pull the weighing off - on a diet of soy/corn/oats (maybe 2 lbs daily) with 1/2 cup of boss and all the alfalfa he wanted.

gl!


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

cathleenc said:


> And Eioeiomom (Deb) breeds e. friesians - she'll have insights into the breed, too.


These are actually descendants of Deb's sheep! A breeder she sold to lives a few hundred miles from us. She (breeder here) also suggested the same things as you guys - worms, just lean right now, shipping stress. None of her animals were skinny (and they had just been shorn the week I got these guys) so I guess I'm not overly worried. 

I didn't really notice they were skinny until about 2 weeks ago because one of them was scouring really badly. FINALLY got that under control (I think it was the change in pasture) but he was skinny - then I noticed they all were (hard to tell through all that fluff!)

I'm going to rerun the fecals tomorrow. What sort of FEC should I be worried about? Sheep get an invermectin drench, right?


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

Hi !

Higher % Friesians do tend to be lean and lanky, but should have good rib cover, especially lambs, which should not be skinny.
These lambs are crossed with Churros and I believe they are easier keepers ?

Sounds like you spoke with the breeder and she would be the best for suggestions, since she has been raising them and doing a great job.
She has come up with a feeding program that fits your area and type of sheep and may have other feeding tips too.

Friesians do condition score differently than your other breeds. Much like dairy cattle, they do not cover over the spine, but they should have nice cover over the ribs and be evaluated based on this.

Sounds like they need to get back their condition, after what they have gone through. 
I would feed them the best you can and deworm them if they have not been dewormed, keeping them off the pasture if possible for a couple days after worming.

Corn and very palatable alfalfa in addition to their grazing pasture or whatever the breeder has suggested too, should get them looking better within a couple weeks..... Just remember to make any changes very gradually !

Yes, and hopefully Shel will report with what she was feeding her sheep too, with her expertise in the ruminant field 

Deb


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## funnyfarmnatura (May 27, 2009)

Just to throw my 2 cents in...I am a big advocate of loose minerals specifically formulated for sheep(I personally like the sweetlix brand), separate loose salt in deep tubs(I like redmond natural) and a selenium block that is copper free. All of which are free choice located nearby the loafing area by water and shade to encourage them to use them at free choice. Kinda like an ala-carte supplementation to the barn free, 24-7 intensive rotational grazing that we do here in North East PA.
Of course my management plan may or may not suit you and your needs in your region, but I feel like the lack of minerals and good access to salts are often an issue when it comes to poor ewes, missed cycling/breedings and slow gaining lambs.
Just a thought  Best of luck to ya!

Cheers,
kerry


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

Ok, got more info. The loose minerals they have are sweetlix brand. They don't have loose salt or a selenium block. Speaking of which, we aren't in a selenium deficient area. Should we still give them one? I thought I had read that too much was bad. But perhaps it has to be a WHOLE lot too much.

Now that I've read some more and squeezed on them somemore, I think that they are just lean, and not "skinny".

We have 2 that are high % Friesians and they actually seem to be in the best body condition. I know it's hard to tell from a picture of a fuzzy sheep, but here's one of them:










It's the Churro/Freisian crosses I was worried about. I think it might be because they are younger and probably not 100% weaned. So that stress, the stress of moving and all three of them scoured the first day or two they were here - and then one of them for much longer. But their "eye" is not depressed - at least I don't think. You can kinda see in this shot:










So I'm thinking that they are just lean. Is there an easy resource for me to look up on how to do body scores?

Thanks for the help everyone. I'm going to add salt and the selenium block if it won't be a problem of having too much.


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

I always have selenium salts out for my sheep and I am not even near being deficient in our area.
They only take what they need.
I have it available because the amount of selenium can very in hay and foods.
I dont feed sheep feeds that have added minerals. I feed only whole grains when they are pg or lactating. And I have no clue where the whole oats in the bag was grown!

The too much comes in the form of injections and oral applied forms where the animal has no choice and people are making the call without knowing whats needed. You have to know the correct amounts if giving selenium directly.

Your sheep look really nice!!!!!!


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

Thanks RiverPines! 

Sheep are turning out to be more and more different from goats. We have quite a list for the feedstore on Monday!


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## LibertyWool (Oct 23, 2008)

Here is a link to a body scoring pdf file. 

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/ec/ec1433.pdf

They look like nice sheep. It is interesting to see the different types of sheep. Milk sheep have a different body shape than meat sheep....


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## eieiomom (Jun 22, 2005)

Unfortunately, you can't tell condition score unless you use your hands.
They are nice sheep though 
Here's another link, however this will not apply to your high % dairy crosses...http://www.case-agworld.com/cAw.IU.framescore.html

Rib cover... I would suggest that the ribs feel similar to the back of your hand when making a fist, but this would probably depend on the person's weight too ?
This would apply more to mature ewes....my lambs have more cover than this.
Some of the lambs are very plump and others cover differently, really based on the breed % they are crossed with.
Similar to the rule about horses, without their wool, should be able to feel the ribs but not see them.

They still finish very nicely for the freezer (customers rave about how lean and good they are), some just take longer, first growing taller before conditioning over the backs.
Others are ready in a shorter time thanks to their dams producing lots of milk.

Hope you enjoy your new sheep !

Deb


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

Thanks for the links! Ok, I thought the "eye" was something else -lower down, below the transverse process.

I'll squeeze again in the morning, but I'm thinking they are going to score a 1. I didn't try to get my fingers under the transverse process though. I guess that's not as bad as it sounds for dairy breeds. But probably still wouldn't hurt putting a few more pounds on them.

And yes, we are enjoying them a lot! They all have such different voices, so we are always laughing about who is bellowing and can be heard across the whole farm! They are getting much friendlier as well and will let us handle them more and more. I do like them!


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## madness (Dec 6, 2006)

Ok, couple more questions. The Freisian/Churro crosses are certainly at a body condition of 1. The high % Freisians are between a 1 and 2. The transverse process certainly doesn't make you gag when you feel it like it does on the crosses. Ugh, it just sticks out so bony. 

The feed store had selenium crumbles but warned against feeding them without Vitamin E. What should I do there?

And what is a good ratio for COB? Just equal amounts? We picked up corn so we could add it to the feed. I'd like to keep the BOSS and molasses in for a bit to help with calorie intake.

We also picked up Ivomec for the dairy goats. Is that what you worm sheep with? What's the dose and how's it administered? If it's not right, what product should we use?

Thanks!


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## RiverPines (Dec 12, 2006)

madness said:


> Ok, couple more questions. The Freisian/Churro crosses are certainly at a body condition of 1. The high % Freisians are between a 1 and 2. The transverse process certainly doesn't make you gag when you feel it.
> 
> The feed store had selenium crumbles but warned against feeding them without Vitamin E. What should I do there?
> 
> ...


I use injectable Ivermectin, orally, on my sheep same as I do with my goats. I follow the directions for the dose as the injectable liquid does not need to be triple the dose for goats like it is with the paste.
Mine is 1ml per 22 pounds.
I haven't had a prob with worms in my sheep. I did get new lambs that had worms but they are all good now! 

I cant help you with feed as my sheep hold good weight just with pasture and hay. Sorry.


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