# What would kill a 2 week old calf



## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

ok here is the story last night the calf drank great and has been doing great ever since i got him no sign of any thing good poop looked good bright coat 

this morning i went to feed him and he is down and has water yellow crap and is all bones and cant even stand or lift his head off the ground or hold his head up 

what would cause i good calf to pretty much die is less than 8 hours?

im thinking its the TOX word we had one do this last year but she didnt have the water yellow crap and he is too far gone to even call the vet and spend another $100 and have him die right AFTER the vet leaves or before he evens gets there and still get charged a $45 call


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

after reading what to say when you have a sick cow ill add some info 

jersey bull calf 2 weeks old today (14 days)

had moms milk for 4 feedings 

was getting a bottle a day of medicated milk (what i feed all my calves and i have 9 more that are drinking the same stuff) 

was breathing slow 

isnt dehydrated

had it since it was 2 days old been drinking a bottle twice a day

and was active till this morning now it just looks like its dead but still breathing just no power to hold his head up or his eyes open toung hanging out the side of his mouth 

his crap like i said is water yellow and smells bad 

he has spit out his mouth with his toung 

i know nothing will help save him but im trying to find out what would do that to him from going great to almost dead in 8 hours


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I would try to get some electrolytes into him, if possible. A shot of antibiotics won't hurt him.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

he is too far gone to try to put any thing through him if he cant keep his eyes open or lift his head there not gonna help


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I think you may have wiped out the normal gut flora by antibiotics being fed daily over a long time.


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## Timberline (Feb 7, 2006)

I'm sorry about your calf. Sounds like scours caused by e coli, which the antibiotics aren't very effective against anymore. The watery yellow scour is a common symptom. When I was a vet tech and calls would come in about scouring or down calves, the vet's first question was always "What color is the scour?"

_Normal gut flora of all mammals so E. coli is ubiquitous (everywhere).

Three disease forms:

Colisepticemia - any strain:
Enterotoxigenic - specific strains (K99 and others).
Enteropathogenic - specific strains.

A most common cause of calf death.

Because the organisms involved in calf scours are usually highly antibiotic resistant, OTC antibiotics are usually not effective.
_

That's from this page which has basic info about the different causes of scours. 
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/courses-jmgay/VMADCalfScours.htm


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## Tilly (Oct 16, 2007)

We almost lost our calf the same way. I called an old cattle guy from our church to "please help, I don't know what else to do". Calf was bottle fed, a bit over two weeks old. That poop was very foul smelling. He couldn't even lift his head, he seemed to be dead right in front of us. I thought he would just put the calf down, but he tubed him with electrolytes, gave him a shot of penicillin, and two sulfa drugs. the next morning he was on his feet, we fed electrolytes for two more feedings, gave two more doses of sulfa, and got off of the medicated milk. Now he is a nice big steer. 

Tilly


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

ya well he is still alive not any better though i went ahead and tubed him and gave him some penicillin but if he will make it i dont think so he has bloody poop now and its really stinky smells like a egg that has been under the chicken for a month that was never fertil and blew up so if he makes it past 8 tonight i will be surprised 

his ears are way down he cant even hold his eye lids open and he is making hard short breaths im going to get a different kinda of milk replacer today from a different place the guy that runs it raises alot of calves so ill just get what he uses and hope no more are like this but the other 9 are doing fine and think its feeding time when i have to go by them to check on this one and come running to the end of there pen and all but one has yellow good poop and then the other jersey (one of the other ones we got from the same farm as the sick one) has some nasty dark brown solid poop it looks like dirt 

and that one the very first day we got him he wouldnt drink and he has this nasty yellow water crap and we put him on this stuff (it was a huge pill and you had to shoot it down his mouth then wait an hour and give him milk) i forgot the name but ill check when i head back out there tonight i had to tube that one for 5 feedings and he was doing great but when checking on the other one i see that he has dark brown poop its still solid like the rest just brown is this some thing that i should worry about? he has been off the pills for 8 days and drinking on his own out of the bottle for 11 days and looks really healthy just his poop today has got me wondering if some thing is wrong with him now too he has fresh water every day that none of them are drinking yet and he has some grain which he might be messing with but most of it is spilled but its only like a hand full of grain so its not enough even if he is eating it to change the color of his poop 

sorry for going on and on just trying to make sure every one understands so i dont have to keep replying and rewording it


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

agmantoo said:


> I think you may have wiped out the normal gut flora by antibiotics being fed daily over a long time.


Some dairies feed MMR all the time with no problems.


BM 
Keep a eye on the rest of your calves. Sounds like a out break of cryptosporidia. Its extremly fast acting. You might want to call your vet and see if they have any product for crypto. A higher dose of drugs for coccidiaosis is what it used. 
Bob


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## copperhead46 (Jan 25, 2008)

sounds kinda like cocciciasis to me........
p.j.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

coccidia thats what the other one died from last year she was doing fine then one day went down and wouldnt drink any thing called the vet he gave her a bunch of crap and 10mins after he left she died and a over $100 vet bill that i still needed to pay 

but really there is no treatment for this and it says that 96% of jerseys have it and only some die from it or even show signs of it 

i think it lives in the ground here cause when we got this place 15 years ago my parents tried to raise some of the calves from our farm here and most of them died for no reason im pretty sure it was coccidia 

so pretty much im fighting an uphill battle with this crap time to sell and move


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

Coccidiosis is treatable. Our calves have had it and we treated them with a product called Corid. You can give your calves a prevention dose also. Jeffers Livestock Supply has several medications for the treatment of coccidosis. 
http://tinyurl.com/yllblrn


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

Coccidia and Crypto are very close cousins. Both are treated with a coccodiastat. Just the fact with teh dose you give for crypto is high. 
We use a product a vet here makes. They use saw dust that is sprayed with the coccidiastat drug. this way you can measure it easy and not worry about a over dose. 1 table spoon in the milk twice aday is the dose. It cost $5.00 for a pound
Bob


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

so should i treat all them since there in the same barn just different pens?


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## linn (Jul 19, 2005)

I would give them a preventative dose. I may be wrong, but I think once that the coccidia gets into the ground, nothing will kill it. You might have to raise calves on different ground or take preventative measures from now on.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

ya thats what i heard im building a horse barn down a little bit so i might just have to swap thing and make it a lean building and take down the cow building here and make the horse building cause there older and i dont think it can hurt them (could be wrong) 

but im thinking about giving it to every one some stuff to at least try to help it sucks having a calf 2 weeks old that has drank all that milk just die with no signs of being sick till it was to late id rather have them die first day i get them


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## Madsaw (Feb 26, 2008)

When we had our cyrpto out break. I lost 16 out of 17 calves in 2 weeks. The ranged from 2 days old to 3 weeks. That makes you sick. We keep teh meds on hand and if have any sign we treat. We also use Sustain III tablets too. They work good for pnuemonia and also treat coccidia. Sustain III is a sulfa based drug.
Bob


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## gina kay (Sep 12, 2007)

We just lost a calf that was only a couple of hours old (if that old since we don't know exactly when it died). I saw it when it was a few minutes old and when we checked on mama and baby again a couple of hours later it was dead. The mother is about two years old and kind of on the small size. This was her first calf. Heifer's dad (a Brahman) was the calf's dad (inbred problem?). Could the two diseases previously mentioned in the other posts be the cause of this calf's death? When it was born it never stood but the mama was licking it thoroughly it seemed. It was warm weather and mama was protective. Reason I'm asking about coccis is that we have been free ranging chickens but have never had a problem with them getting it and don't usually bring in chickens from off the farm. Have always free ranged and have had healthy calves before. In process of stopping the free ranging and containing them in a run.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

usually the coccis wont change breeds so cows get cows type and chickens get chickens type you shouldnt have to worry about your chickens getting sick 

but was the calf breathing? when we had calves that didnt get up we would always go in there and clean there nose off and stick some straw to make them cough and then they would always get up 

was its coat yellow? or a nasty color?


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## whatknott (Apr 27, 2008)

If you are tubing, are you using electrolytes? There are lots of good meds out there for scours. I use Resorb; there is also bounce back that works miracles too. But you need to get it off the milk until it has stopped the diarrhea. The electrolytes will perk it up quite quickly. And that is normal temperature; I'd get some resorb or something else at your feed store right away and not even try given any other antibiotics. I've raised quite a few auction calves and it's been a long time since I ever lost one, but they sure can scare you when they get that yellow squirts that stink.

As far as the one that died in a few hours, there was something else wrong with it - maybe even the mother stepped on it. coccidia doesn't kill a newborn calf.


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## gina kay (Sep 12, 2007)

bigmudder77, yes the calf was breathing. That's the first thing I checked for when I saw it the first time. It was moving also and mooing. Must've been something congential or maybe she did step on it.


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## bigmudder77 (Jun 9, 2008)

i HATE bounce back that crap killed 2 calves of mine and made the other 2 very sick 

resorb does great but its a bit much here 

1 day responce works great so far (knock on wood) i have never lost a calf with this stuff (the vets dont like any of this stuff they said it should be on milk) well its off milk for 4 feedings and most times it only takes 2 feeding and its up and comes running 

i do 2 feedings 1 day with just this stuff if it comes running to me in the morning the next day it gets half and half if not then it just gets another packet of that stuff then night its always mixed half and half and then the next morning (5 feedings later) it gets milk works great for me


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## DJ in WA (Jan 28, 2005)

This was a good chance to review this subject I studied many years ago. Letâs see if I can summarize from the site chalk creek posted and this from the Merck Veterinary Manual:
http://www.merckveterinarymanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/22108.htm

What is the cause of your calfâs disease? Hard to say. Sometimes it can be a combination of bugs. Possibilities are bacteria like E. coli or Salmonella. Or viruses like corona and rotavirus. Or protozoa like cryptosporidiosis. You can have feces cutured, but results are often confusing, since their presence does not necessarily mean they are the problem. Many of the bugs can be found in healthy calves.

Crypto is supposed to be more mild unless combined with other bugs. The common E. coli usually hits before 5 days old. Salmonella may be likely, as it causes foul smelling diarrhea as you described. It infects all the body, not just the gut, so requires injected antibiotics, but penicillin and other common drugs are ineffective due to overuse and resistance.

The main treatment for severe diarrhea is fluids for dehydration. Dehydration and itâs consequences are usually what kills the calf. If the calf is down and weak, the fluids need to be given IV (in the vein) to do any good. Very dehydrated calves lack sufficient circulation for fluids given orally to be absorbed from the gut. Calves also need energy to recover, so may need to add sugars to fluids and/or keep feeding milk.

Penicillin does not work for viruses, or E. coli, or Salmonella, or protozoa.

Why is this calf more affected than others? Individuals vary in their resistance to disease organisms. Some calves get less colostrum if they are weak from a difficult calving, or from other problems. Or the colostrum may lack protection if the cow is unvaccinated, or from a heifer which hasnât yet been exposed to disease.

Calves also differ in their exposure to bugs. Many of the organisms causing disease are all around, or in the feces of the cows or other calves. Some bugs have a certain minimum number to cause disease. So if a calf happens to get a mouthful of feces containing these organisms, it will be more likely to get sick. Which is why clean bedding is helpful, and spreading out calves, and general cleanliness.


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## ErinP (Aug 23, 2007)

I'm going to question the coccidiosis theory. Cox is also known as "bloody scours" because of the way it usually presents. 
Not that it can't show any other color, but I'd think that if he actually died of it, that he would have been showing blood in the stool... 
And, as evidenced by the number of suggestions in the thread, the only way to really know is to have the vet post him.



Tilly said:


> but he tubed him with electrolytes, gave him a shot of penicillin, and two sulfa drugs.


This is our standard protocol, too. 

However, I will say, because of our scale, prevention is our bigger concern. 

And to prevent scours, cox, etc, the best thing to do is _not calve_ in the same spot year and after year. 
Pair out ASAP (that is, take the new pairs out of the calving area and to pasture)
And above everything else, try to calve in a dry location. Muddy corrals are the absolute worst for calving problems. (and that's exactly what we have on this ranch.  )
For scours, ScourGuard is a good maternal shot given about 3-6 weeks before calving starts. But honestly, my experience has been that moving calving locations, and pairing out is the best prevention.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I found this to be an interesting article
"Medicated milk replacers &#8211; Yes or No?
The most popular option for calf milk replacers in
the US is Neo-Terra (USDA survey in 2008).
Interestingly, this medication option was recently
applied as a treatment in two separate expert
review publications. The quick take home
message is neither was better than the nonmedicated
control.
In a Penn State University study, the three milk
replacer treatments were a non-medicated
control, a commercial microbial product, and Neo-
Terra. There were no differences in calf weight
gain, medical treatments, and scouring.
In a study from Washington State University,
there were four treatments: 1) non-medicated
milk replacer, aggressive antimicrobial treatment
for scours, 2) non-medicated milk replacer,
electrolyte treatment with limited antimicrobial
treatment for scours, 3) Neo-Terra medicated
milk replacer, aggressive antimicrobial treatment
for scours, and 4) Neo-Terra medicated milk
replacer, electrolyte treatment with limited
antimicrobial treatment for scours. Calves fed
medicated milk replacer had more days with
scours than calves fed non-medicated milk
replacers. Calves treated for scours with
electrolytes with limited antimicrobial treatments
had fewer days with scours and tended to have a
greater body weight gain than calves
aggressively treated with electrolytes. Use of a
non-medicated milk replacer with electrolyte
treatment with limited antimicrobial treatments
saved $10 per calf and resulted in healthier and
possibly heavier calves."
Sources: Livestock Sci. 125:149-154 (2009); J.
Dairy Sci. 92:4707-4714 (2009).


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