# Generaters Verses Battery Capacities?



## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Has anyone really looked into the economics of running a generator for short periods verses multiple days of Battery power?

It seems like my overnight loads should be small perhaps I should size for just that?
Perhaps Id be better off to crank up the generator for a 1 or 2 hour water pump, washer, dryer, freezer and battery recharge cycle?


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

What exactly are you asking?

You want a smaller battery bank and to run a generator for short periods of time instead of buying batteries? Are you concerned with the cost, or wear and tear (and eventual replacement) on batteries? Or are you concerned with more day to day type expenses?

I, for one, would like for someone to thoroughly look into the environmental aspect of batteries and solar panels versus running a generator to produce a like amount of electricity. I have often wondered if, at the end of the day, it is less carbon emissions to just manufacture and then run a generator versus manufacturing solar panels and components, batteries, and then replacements for those parts as they get old just to produce the same amount of electricity.


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## Hooligans (Jul 11, 2017)

I think the best compromise is to use the generator as primarily a battery charger, and when possible, run your bigger loads while batteries are charging to make the most of excess generator capacity.

I don't know if that helps with your question, but that's how I intend to do it. Currently we have only a generator and it sure is nice to shut it down and enjoy the quiet


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

Hooligans said:


> I think the best compromise is to use the generator as primarily a battery charger, and when possible, run your bigger loads while batteries are charging to make the most of excess generator capacity.
> 
> I don't know if that helps with your question, but that's how I intend to do it. Currently we have only a generator and it sure is nice to shut it down and enjoy the quiet


I've done it the same way before. My RV's system, I needed to charge the batteries off the genny a couple of times a week in winter, and never in summer. For loads like power tools and vacuuming, I just ran the genny.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> Has anyone really looked into the economics of running a generator for short periods verses multiple days of Battery power?


It all depends on your power requirements.
Without details there can't be any good answers.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Thanks hooligans that’s what I mean 
Thanks Shannon that’s how I intend to do it. 
It seems like one of the things that makes solar crazy expensive is trying to size for peak loads and repeated days of no solar energy 
If the peek is twice the regular load and you size for a battery backup of a week you are looking at spending 14 times as much as bass load
If you can deal with that with a. Hour or two of generates a day it seems like that might be the better economics.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

AmericanStand said:


> If you can deal with that with a. Hour or two of generates a day it seems like that might be the better economics.


That's not how it works.

Your peak loads will come randomly, every time a motor starts.
Your battery/inverter system has to be able to handle those loads.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

It can work if you run your heavy loads (well pump, washer/dryer, power tools, etc.) only off the generator. Many already do that. I have a solar system for lighting, fans, and music at the cabin. Anytime I want to run anything else I start the generator.

WWW


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

wy_white_wolf said:


> It can work if you run your heavy loads (well pump, washer/dryer, power tools, etc.) only off the generator. Many already do that. I have a solar system for lighting, fans, and music at the cabin. Anytime I want to run anything else I start the generator.
> 
> WWW


 Is there a load manager that would sence loads and start a generater automatically when the battery voltage dropped to a certain point or a big load was applied ?


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> Thanks hooligans that’s what I mean
> Thanks Shannon that’s how I intend to do it.
> It seems like one of the things that makes solar crazy expensive is trying to size for peak loads and repeated days of no solar energy
> If the peek is twice the regular load and you size for a battery backup of a week you are looking at spending 14 times as much as bass load
> If you can deal with that with a. Hour or two of generates a day it seems like that might be the better economics.


I think the economics part largely depends on how much money you have to shell out for your battery bank and solar components, how long you have to use them, and battery life before replacing. I will say, though, that you'll be beating your batteries up pretty bad if you are always discharging them deeply before turning the generator on to charge them again. In my case, it was all I had to work with so I made it work.


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

AmericanStand said:


> Is there a load manager that would sence loads and start a generater automatically when the battery voltage dropped to a certain point or a big load was applied ?


I think so, yeah. Probably an inverter that does that. Possibly a charge controller would perform that action for you also....gonna have to ask a wiser man than me about that one.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

AmericanStand said:


> Is there a load manager that would sence loads and start a generater automatically when the battery voltage dropped to a certain point or a big load was applied ?


That feature is built-in on many higher end inverter/chargers. As far as being a single unit I'm sure there is but don't know of one.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Part of the thought of frequent generator use and during heavy demand is to prevent deep discharge of a much smaller battery bank.


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## doglessfur (Dec 7, 2018)

I don't know if this helps but we run exclusively off generator power at the moment. We have a 3,000 watt generator and go through about 20-25 gallons of gas a week. We're looking into solar to help augment the generator in the spring. It's been running for six months now. It runs 24/7.

Part of what helps is having an Inverter generator with eco throttle. This keeps the gas usage and noise levels down. The other part is keeping our electrical loads down.


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

doglessfur said:


> I don't know if this helps but we run exclusively off generator power at the moment. We have a 3,000 watt generator and go through about 20-25 gallons of gas a week. We're looking into solar to help augment the generator in the spring. It's been running for six months now. It runs 24/7.
> 
> Part of what helps is having an Inverter generator with eco throttle. This keeps the gas usage and noise levels down. The other part is keeping our electrical loads down.


That is a ton of fuel, I could see where you would want to look into other options. Are you running the generator standalone or using it to charge a battery bank? Even batteries and a generator without any solar augmentation would help your situation a lot. Even if you get solar panels, you are going to need some batteries anyway, so... might as well get some batteries.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

doglessfur said:


> I don't know if this helps but we run exclusively off generator power at the moment. We have a 3,000 watt generator and go through about 20-25 gallons of gas a week. We're looking into solar to help augment the generator in the spring. It's been running for six months now. It runs 24/7.
> 
> Part of what helps is having an Inverter generator with eco throttle. This keeps the gas usage and noise levels down. The other part is keeping our electrical loads down.


 I’m very interested in the situation I suspect that just adding one deep cycle battery to your set up would allow your generator to run less than half the time. 
So if you do add batteries please come back and let us know what happens.


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

doglessfur said:


> I don't know if this helps but we run exclusively off generator power at the moment. We have a 3,000 watt generator and go through about 20-25 gallons of gas a week. We're looking into solar to help augment the generator in the spring. It's been running for six months now. It runs 24/7.
> 
> Part of what helps is having an Inverter generator with eco throttle. This keeps the gas usage and noise levels down. The other part is keeping our electrical loads down.


Instead of going straight to solar you could add a battery bank and an inverter/charger. That would cut down on generator time and possibly cut fuel costs by running the generator at a higher efficiency load when it does run. One step at a time.

WWW


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## oldasrocks (Oct 27, 2006)

It takes a fully charged 40 lb battery to equal the energy in 6 ounces of gasoline. Todays batteries only last a couple of years. Do the math.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

How many ounces to the gallon ?


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

You must be using absolute crap batteries then. A 40-lb battery.... lol, do you mean the regular car batteries?
Because my batteries are at least 80 lbs each and have already lasted twice your estimation of "a couple years". And they aren't even close to top of the line. Capacity is better than 6ozs worth of gasoline also, depending on their application.

Where, exactly, did you get this info anyway? I'm curious.


oldasrocks said:


> It takes a fully charged 40 lb battery to equal the energy in 6 ounces of gasoline. Todays batteries only last a couple of years. Do the math.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

ShannonR said:


> Capacity is better than 6ozs worth of gasoline also, depending on their application.
> 
> .


A liter of gasoline has about 2400x more energy in it than a typical 50amp-hr car battery. Think of this way: how long can you keep your starter motor cranking before the battery wears down? How much gasoline would you have used to keep it idling for that minute or three? How far could you drive on that liter? How far would your standard trans car have scooched along in gear with just the starter motor turning until the battery conked out? (This why a conventional ICE is so much more practical than an EV.)

Battery life has more to do with number of discharge cycles than with the calendar.


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

doc- said:


> A liter of gasoline has about 2400x more energy in it than a typical 50amp-hr car battery. Think of this way: how long can you keep your starter motor cranking before the battery wears down? How much gasoline would you have used to keep it idling for that minute or three? How far could you drive on that liter? How far would your standard trans car have scooched along in gear with just the starter motor turning until the battery conked out? (This why a conventional ICE is so much more practical than an EV.)
> 
> Battery life has more to do with number of discharge cycles than with the calendar.


Dude! We aren't talking about cars here... nor was I meaning to talk about their batteries... but while we're on the topic, yeah, electric and hybrid technology needs to be vastly improved to become an actual economic option.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Yes it’s actually a pretty poor comparison since the starter runs all the dead weight of a jet engine while it moves your car. 
A point of it in a system including a battery bank though is that you don’t have to invest in those ounces of gasoline to run that generator for 22 hours a day and thus you get rid of a significant debt load which is probably where the average 24 hour a day generator spends most of its energy A point of it in a system including a battery bank though is that you don’t have to invest in those ounces of gasoline to run that generator for 22 hours a day and thus you get rid of a significant dead load which is probably where the average 24 hour a day generator spends most of its energy. 
So perhaps the idea of running that starter through a dead engine is a closer example and it seems !


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## jerry arnold (Dec 1, 2018)

AmericanStand said:


> Has anyone really looked into the economics of running a generator for short periods verses multiple days of Battery power?
> 
> It seems like my overnight loads should be small perhaps I should size for just that?
> Perhaps Id be better off to crank up the generator for a 1 or 2 hour water pump, washer, dryer, freezer and battery recharge cycle?


if you've ever used a RV you are probably aware that most are set-up for a 30amp service...when setting up a battery storage system...it's a really great idea to use as many 12VDC appliances as possible and avoid all restive heating appliances...and limit the use of inverters since there will be power lost to the inverter

i'm considering a generator for charging a small battery bank, along with some solar...but i've not found a really practical way to operate HVAC on battery/solar...so i'm looking a generator fueled by propane for that service


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

ShannonR said:


> Dude! We aren't talking about cars here... nor was I meaning to talk about their batteries... but while we're on the topic, yeah, electric and hybrid technology needs to be vastly improved to become an actual economic option.


You doubted the comparison of energy in gasoline to that in batteries. Gasoline contain 50MJ/L; a typical car battery contains 50 amp-hrs of juice @12 volts. Do the math-- 2400x more energy in the L of gasoline. One problem with the ICE is that it's no more than 20% efficient at turning the chemical energy into work (including generating electricity) so reduce the 2400x number to 480x more powerful in practical application. The car starter example was to illustrate in a way you might recognize that there isn't too much energy in a car battery compared to a small amount of gasoline....gasoline is energy dense; batteries aren't.


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## doglessfur (Dec 7, 2018)

ShannonR said:


> That is a ton of fuel, I could see where you would want to look into other options. Are you running the generator standalone or using it to charge a battery bank? Even batteries and a generator without any solar augmentation would help your situation a lot. Even if you get solar panels, you are going to need some batteries anyway, so... might as well get some batteries.


We don't have an inverter and battery bank yet. I agree it would help. We are working on the plans for that.



AmericanStand said:


> I’m very interested in the situation I suspect that just adding one deep cycle battery to your set up would allow your generator to run less than half the time.
> So if you do add batteries please come back and let us know what happens.


I can do that.



wy_white_wolf said:


> Instead of going straight to solar you could add a battery bank and an inverter/charger. That would cut down on generator time and possibly cut fuel costs by running the generator at a higher efficiency load when it does run. One step at a time.
> 
> WWW


Agreed as Shannon mentioned as well. We're looking into the best option that will allow us to grow the system over time without having to toss out too many pieces. Our plan is to add the batteries and inverters, then solar panels.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Dog less fur 
What is your night load ?
My mind keeps fixing on that 24/7 thing!


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## ShannonR (Nov 28, 2012)

doglessfur said:


> We don't have an inverter and battery bank yet. I agree it would help. We are working on the plans for that.
> 
> I can do that.
> 
> ...


You should hopefully be able to use just one inverter. It would be highly ideal if you purchase both or all batteries at once, buying them a few at a time might cause problems down the road as far as charge rates and stored power goes. I reccommend getting some less expensive, but still useable, batteries such as T-105's and using them to learn with. Newbies do tend to be hard on battery banks... My farm's solar system got upgraded to (4) L-16's last year and I inherited the pair of T-105's for the RV. While still useable, the older batteries have certainly seen better days. They're almost 5 years old and still kicking, if that gives you an idea of longevity. They have something like 420 amp hours combined.


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## Falfrenzy (Aug 20, 2018)

AmericanStand said:


> Yes it’s actually a pretty poor comparison since the starter runs all the dead weight of a jet engine while it moves your car.
> A point of it in a system including a battery bank though is that you don’t have to invest in those ounces of gasoline to run that generator for 22 hours a day and thus you get rid of a significant debt load which is probably where the average 24 hour a day generator spends most of its energy A point of it in a system including a battery bank though is that you don’t have to invest in those ounces of gasoline to run that generator for 22 hours a day and thus you get rid of a significant dead load which is probably where the average 24 hour a day generator spends most of its energy.
> So perhaps the idea of running that starter through a dead engine is a closer example and it seems !


Let the children argue. Eventually they'll realize that a car uses a "starting" type battery to turn the flywheel via the starter. And the proper type of comparison involves a deep cycle battery. Marathon use, not sprints.


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## Studhauler (Jul 30, 2011)

AmericanStand said:


> Perhaps Id be better off to crank up the generator for a 1 or 2 hour water pump, washer, dryer, freezer and battery recharge cycle?


Speaking from experience, it takes running a generator more than 2 hours a day to keep a deep freeze operating. I think I was at 2 hours run time 4 times a day. You want to keep a deep freeze at a nice constant temp, not cycling 20 above to 20 below.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Did you keep your deep-freeze full I’ve heard that helps. 
What’s the logic of not wanting him to cycle between 20 below and 20 above?


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## Studhauler (Jul 30, 2011)

The temperature fluctuation reduces the storage life of the meat.


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Really ? I have never heard that. Do you know how long it reduces the storage life or how many cycles it takes?


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## 50ShadesOfDirt (Nov 11, 2018)

A late reply to a several month old posting, but ...

We went the (off-grid) route ... we didn't estimate loads, size things, etc. ... most all electric house & outbuildings, most any device of peak starting power you can imagine. it seems to me that the answer to everything (and it's not the # "4") is a "buffer"; a buffer between what you need all the time, and what you want occasionally. In this case, the buffer is a battery-bank, as it flattens the peak demands, gets us through long periods of light demand, and it couples nicely to the solar panels, inverter/mppt, gennie, etc. We don't run 12v (costly) devices, we don't really monitor usage (sometimes we remember to power off the vampires), and we pay the propane bill every once in a while.

The devil is in the details, of course, but there, my (detailed) answer is: 48-volt system; pre-wired magnum 4048 inverter w/ mmp & midnite classic mppt, rolls-surrette 8x6v battery bank (932AH), and Generac standby 22KW propane gennie w/ autostart capability, and of course, solar panels. After all my hard-knock lessons, this is now my ideal, and I hope it'll benefit others, w/o taking the knocks I did. We can coast for days w/ good sunny days, and the system automatically fires up the propane gennie if it needs to augment, either because of non-sunny days, or we run some monster load device; it shuts down automatically. All automatic, no interruptions to whatever we're doing, it just runs & runs (barring maintenance or improvement activities).

I do have to maintain it, as I am my own power grid, and I constantly think of backups (to backups), tweaks, performance tuning ... that's where you come in, as everything discussed in these forums makes me think of more improvements. IE, store an extra set of batteries "dry", for backups to the battery bank (thank you, whomever that was ... brilliant); it's almost like "store what you eat, and eat what you store" (in battery terms).

I hope to write this up better, for a future post ... but, it's achievable, now ... and, no more grid-down outages, utility bills, ...


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## MichaelK! (Oct 22, 2010)

In my own case, I designed my solar system to handle my biggest load, which is my 1hp well pump. I basicly installed enough panels to double the wattage the pump consumes. I couldn't be more pleased with how it has worked out. What a lot of people don't realize is that the solar panels are actually the very cheapest part of a solar system. The batteries and all the electronics cost far more than the panels themselves. So, since the panels are so cheap, I went overboard and installed far more panels then what the system is "supposed" to be rated for. What that means in the real world is that I can start running my wellpump by about 8:30 in the morning. I keep the peak amps lower by facing some panels SE and some SW during the noon hour. What eventually happened is after a year of not running the generator at all, I discovered that the piston rusted in the cylinder from inactivity. Now I use the generator for 30 minutes every month or so just so it stays running. My system is big enough now that I don't even have to run it in the rainy winter weather. Now I have to use up all my stored gasoline.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

I have a simple enough system that handles all our needs.

System was originally built in 2015 and got one upgrade 4K inverter from 3K Inverter.
2080 Watts of Panel (8 Canadian Solar CS260P's) Today I would use Heliene Split Cell 315W panels. ($240 ea)
Midnite Classic 200 MPPT Controller. Midnite MNDC250 E-Panel, Samlex EVO-4024 Inverter.
Battery Bank is 8, Rolls Surette S550's in Series / Parallel for 24V, 856 Amp Hours / 20Killowatts stored. 428 Amp Hours / 10Kw useable to 50% DOD. Note that this inverter only uses 3W in standby & trigger threshold is programmable. I am presently "paneled" to the max spec on the Controller but as I am using a Fixed Ground Mount it is safe to over-panel by a MAX of 20% ( that varies relative to sun hours per day / location etc). Fortunately, with MidNite, I can link another controller in and expand the system if needed as they are stackable.

This system allows for Dual AC Input, 1 from a Generator with auto-start capability and one from Grid Power which can be prioritized. It can operate as a UPS if Grid Power fails, or can operate in Battery First then Grid or Generator if battery charge reaches threshold. As I am off-grid, only a Genny is attached and the Grid 120V is left off.

I only use 120V as I have no use for Split Phase 240V. My well pump is a Grundfos SQ-5, 120V soft start (and never makes the inverter even blink) which is 250' deep, feeds a 50gal Pressure Tank @ 45psi and pushes water 75' to cabin and you never notice a change in pressure and that's with dual filtering to 1 micron ! I have an Energy Star, High Efficiency fridge that only uses 250 Kilowatt Hours per year (actually less in real world use). Hot Water is provided by an On-Demand Water heater, Heating #1 is a Radiant Heating system that has it's own Takagi TH3M On-Demand heater (dedicated as it's filled with antifreeze), Heating #2 is a Woodstove. The house is fully wired and everything works a treat... Just have to be aware of everything that is on but that's not hard to do.

At this time, I am programming some software to not only monitor & track my Midnite Controller but to also interface with my Inverter & monitor my Weather Station and other gear. The Software is being developed on the Raspberry Pi3 Platform and will be opensource & available when I am completed. I've decided to go this way as the software that is provided by the various gear doesn't provide the information I want and long term tracking & recording to a Database is important for system tweaking & performance monitoring. I hope to be able to include a Library of Modbus equipped Solar Components to simplify setup & management for people using various brands of equipment, like Magnum, Schneider, Victron, Outback, etc... as long as they have published their Modbus specs & accessible registers.

**** Generators ****
I built my place with Generator Power as I am far from Powerlines AND they wanted $55K to bring them here... DUH, don't think so ! Since the solar system went online, I have only had to use my Big Genny 7200/9000 to run my compressor, table saw & Mig Welder and I think that's self explanatory. To hat end, I am now searching for a Propane Conversion Kit for that Genny and a conversion to use Auto-Start (haven't had a need yet BUT the future is unknown).

REF Links:
Classic 200: http://www.midnitesolar.com/product...- Classics&productCat_ID=21&sortOrder=2&act=p ** Classic-200-SL is cheaper & does Solar Only, no Wind / Hydro support
MNDC250 E-Panel: http://www.midnitesolar.com/product...Disconnect&productCat_ID=8&sortOrder=5&act=pc
Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G5 Solar Panels (new): https://www.q-cells.com/en/main/products/solar_panels/residential/residential02.html
Samlex EVO-4024 Inverter/Charger: https://www.samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=575


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

ShannonR said:


> I, for one, would like for someone to thoroughly look into the environmental aspect of batteries and solar panels versus running a generator to produce a like amount of electricity. I have often wondered if, at the end of the day, it is less carbon emissions to just manufacture and then run a generator versus manufacturing solar panels and components, batteries, and then replacements for those parts as they get old just to produce the same amount of electricity.


US made lead acid batteries are virtually 100% recycled.
Acid/electrolyte is cleaned and reused, plates, bridges & terminals are recycled,
Even the cases are recycled in most cases.

The energy expended to make lead acid batteries isn't all that efficient.
Batters don't produce power, batteries do a job nothing else can do as efficient, not that lead acid batteries are efficient at all.
You will *Normally* (on average) loose 15% to heat and chemical losses when the battery is charged,
You will loose another 15% on average converting the chemical energy back into electrical energy when there is a demand.
We use batteries because there isn't anything better commonly available...

Lithium batteries have much higher charge density that lead acid,
And they have several hundred times the charge cycles than lead acid batteries, which makes them many times more useful before they need a little more difficult recycling.

LiFeP04 batteries are much like lithium, but have even higher charge density and charge cycles.

Lithium based batteries are more energy efficient to make than lead acid batteries,
The issue with lithium based batteries is the components need to be super purified, and that takes energy...
And again, batteries don't PRODUCE energy, they simply store energy, so all batteries start well behind any direct energy producer (like solar cells, wind & water generators, etc.)

Solar panels have come a LONG way towards being easier to recycle.
The issue with solar panels is there just isn't a lot to them past the frames (aluminum) and the glass, very small amounts of metals in solar panels.
The energy expended on making solar panels isn't even close, the panel will produce several thousand times the power it took to make the panel.

One thing I've been testing in scale is electrical super capacitors.
These don't have an 'Expiration Date', in theory they last forever.
They are also VERY efficient, minimal losses when charging/discharging since they aren't converting electrical energy into chemical energy, then back into electrical energy.
It stays electrical energy, and is stored directly, and used directly.

-------------------

Combustion engine generators are VERY WASTEFUL.
An intense amount of energy has to be used to smelt iron, copper, aluminum, etc to make the generator castings & parts...
Then it take a lot of energy to make machine tools to shape the base materials into a working g unit with a bunch of parts.
Then there is the (usual liquid) fossil fuel that needs to be drilled for, refined, shipped, retailed, and eventually burned...
Then there is the emissions, toxic and green house gasses...

Then there are the oil changes, air, fuel & oil filters,
The crankcase lube oil, etc.

With all the moving parts, and the heat, there is maintiance & replacement parts.

Again, you use a generator because you need a specific amount of power ('X' amount) and there isn't anything else that does the job available...

When you consider heat losses, fuel cost, maintenance, replacement costs, etc there isn't any comparison.
While my solar has produced 100% of home and 80% of shop power, I've had to rebuild my generator twice which is only used to weld or run 3 phase machines...
The solar hasn't failed in more than 16 years, I've changed batteries once (but I started with 'Used' batteries).

Then consider your usage,
While a little converted car alternator powered by wind or water, and solar will produce plenty to charge batteries, and those batteries will power everything with a little conservation,
Why be burning fuel all the time for the same power?
Sun, wind, water costs nothing...

----------------

Think about it this way,
A gas 'Golf' cart costs you money every second you own it.
Oil needs changed no matter if it runs or not...
It's good for transportation only.

An electric golf cart, with solar panels on top the 'Sun Shade' charges itself,
The battery bank will power your home via inverter (with added solar panels, wind or water charging)
The batteries have enough power to arc weld with.
Add a DC air compressor, you have air power for tools.
It works when it's sitting still.
And by unplugging a connector, it still does transportation.

This isn't theory, this is exactly what I did with a golf cart nearly 2 decades ago.
Wheel bearings, some tires, one set of batteries and a couple electrical relays is all the maintenance it's needed.
No air, fuel, oil filters, no oil changes, no 'Fuel', provides power tool power at my homestead job sites, plugs into the solar panels and provides it's battery bank to power the home/shop when not being driven or powering a job site...

It will charge it's own batteries via onboard solar panels FROM DEAD in about 3 days.
Keep in mind the 3 panels are 20 years old, and I purchased them used...

-----------------

There is another very good side to solar,
I'm 100% off grid and have been for 20+ years.
I power the home, homestead, and a machine/welding shop with 90+% solar.

Solar Is Expandable!
When I need more power, I simply add panels & inverters, batteries if needed.
I've NEVER seen a generator I could 'Stretch' to produce more power.

Backwards, or forwards upgradable.
I went with separated charge controllers, inverters, panels, any one fails and I can upgrade to what's most efficient.
With a modular system, any one part can be changed since it MODULAR.
No sending anything to the manufacturer to get it fixed when one function fails.
With a generator, you are stuck with the manufactures replacement parts, direct replacements, no upgrades.

I've upgraded from lead acid batteries to lithium & LiFeP04 batteries, only one string of lead acid left in the golf cart.
I'm also testing a set of super capacitors in place of batteries, which theoretically won't ever have to be replaced...

Lifespan/Warranty.
I've also never seen a generator with a 20 year warranty like my solar panels came with.
Batteries are good for 8 to 15 years depending on the type,
The better inverters are good for up to 20 years, I'm still running the inverters I bought 20 years ago...

Redundancy,
Your engine puts a rod through the block, or the generator burns, you are DONE.
One battery bank fails, one inverter fails, one solar panel fails you simply jump over the problem and keep right on producing.

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