# Blackberry Winter Die Off



## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

Last year we planted almost 50 thornless blackberry plants. 6 were Oachita, the rest were Triple Crown. They seemed to do well in spite of the drought as we watered and mulched generously.

Then winter came.

This spring, about a third of the plants are being really reluctant to sprout new canes. With the exception of a few, they all pass the 'scratch test'. The Oachita seem to have fared best and are now sprouting bushier than ever and looking good. The few plants that are failing the 'scratch test' have done something weird. Under the mulch around these plants, I am finding canes from last year that are very much alive and have taken root. These canes appear to still be attached to the mother plant, which hasn't sprouted new canes and if you scratch the original plant, looks pretty grim.

I'm not exactly sure what to do about them. I have fertilized twice, rain has been okay so far so they are not dry. Do I let them go and hope they sprout from the root system do I let the canes that look viable continue on and see if they sprout? I'm reluctant to call the good folks at Starke Bro nursery until I'm sure of what I am dealing with here.

Also, given that I had die back of all the canes on the Triple crown and partial die back on the Oachita, do I need to be cutting these plants back in the fall and just heaping mulch around them?

I just added another 36 Oachita's to the arbor and want to get my act together with them before fall comes and I'm wondering what to do with them this winter.


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## buffalocreek (Oct 19, 2007)

I have about 50 triple crowns that I thought had died but now notice new growth right at the base. Wait awhile.


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## wally (Oct 9, 2007)

My blackberrys took a beating this winter.I had to cut way back to remove the dead vines, they are comming back from the roots but will not make fruit this year, maybe next year


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

I was surprised that the triple crowns got hit so hard. They were described as being cold resistant. More so than the Oachitas but the Oachitas seem hardier than the TCs.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

What was your winter low temp? If they are still green at all, leave them be. They will most likely take off again after a slow start.

Blackberry plants will get more vigorous over the first several years, in my experience. You will likely see larger diameter canes come up (and more of them) each year for the next several years if they settle in well. The cold hardiness of the canes may improve as well once the plants are mature.

You can prune out any canes that are truly dead and keep your trellis clean. Any canes that are still alive and have not fruited yet, keep them going. I prune bramble canes once they finish fruiting, at whatever time of year (except for everbearing raspberries, which get to fruit for 2 seasons). 

The thornless types make great rabbit food, if you happen to raise rabbits. The thorny types are fine, as well, just harder to handle without injury!


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

My old TC canes are dead too. They have new growth at the bottom but I will not get blackberries from them this year. There's another variety in the front yard which does have live canes still. (Arapaho I think, maybe)

It was just a freakish hard winter. Too cold for the TC I think. 

Were your plants newly planted last year? If so, I would give Stark Bros a call. They should have come back by now. Mine have quite a bit of new growth and my warm weather was a couple weeks later than yours.


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

K.B. said:


> What was your winter low temp? If they are still green at all, leave them be. They will most likely take off again after a slow start.
> 
> Blackberry plants will get more vigorous over the first several years, in my experience. You will likely see larger diameter canes come up (and more of them) each year for the next several years if they settle in well. The cold hardiness of the canes may improve as well once the plants are mature.
> 
> ...


We had a pretty hard winter here. Lots of snow and bitter cold. If memory serves me right we had a few mornings of -13 degrees. The plants were all newly planted last spring.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

I have Ouchita and Navaho. I noticed some heavy winter cane die back also. I have quite a few that made it though. After our winter, I'm just happy some survived. However, I won't plant more of them since canes dying back each winter won't get me any blackberries. I'd heard the thornless were less hardy so I might have to go back to the thorned varieties. Or try one of the ones that fruit on the new canes. Pri-Jan and Pri-Jim?


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

That's why I planted Oachita this spring. They seemed to be hardier.

I'm also thinking heavier mulch might be in order.

Very disappointing. I was hoping for a crop this summer. I have a buyer lined up if they produce anything. Since they didn't produce last year, this is their first scheduled year to berry. I'm hoping that they will produce something on the new canes that are developing since they are bi-annual cane varieties.


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

Triple crown is reported to be hardy to zone 5 (-20F minimum temp, but for young plants, they may be more sensitive. Wind chill may also play a role depending on the region. 

I hope they spring back and grow well for you this season. There are only a couple types of everbearing blackberry (triple crown and ouachita are not), so the new canes that grow this year will produce berries next year.



badlander said:


> We had a pretty hard winter here. Lots of snow and bitter cold. If memory serves me right we had a few mornings of -13 degrees. The plants were all newly planted last spring.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

badlander said:


> That's why I planted Oachita this spring. They seemed to be hardier.
> 
> I'm also thinking heavier mulch might be in order.
> 
> Very disappointing. I was hoping for a crop this summer. I have a buyer lined up if they produce anything. Since they didn't produce last year, this is their first scheduled year to berry. I'm hoping that they will produce something on the new canes that are developing since they are bi-annual cane varieties.


Doesn't heavy mulch just preserve the crown of the plant and not the canes? So you would keep them alive but lose a crop? that's what happened to me. last year's canes are sprouting leaves but only 1-2 feet from the bottom of the canes. So I'll get a few berries but not 100 3-yr old plants worth.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

All I can say is either TC hardiness is overrated or it was the windchill that did them in. Mine were established plants, 3 years old in my patch.

Mulch preserves the roots, not the canes.


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

The strange thing is that on several plants, where canes had developed and ran under the mulch level, those canes are very much alive and sprouting while the TC canes above the mulch all suffered die off. The only ones that didn't suffer die off 100% on the canes were the Oachita. They suffered some cane die off but about 1/3 of the cane length survived.

Now I'm REALLY glad that my new berries are Oachita. 

If I add any more I think I'll try some of standard 'thorned' varieties.


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## snarg13 (Dec 30, 2015)

I just picked up an old book that said that a lot of winter kill can actually occur due to over mulching with the wrong kind of sticky rotting leaves caused by 2 problems 1)rot and 2)breaking dormancy early because of compost heat generation. 

So what does anyone use for mulch, and when do you take it off?

I have a new planting of 50+ with lots of varieties. Various issues kept me from getting them planted until fall.
I waited till after several frosts and then used some dusty grass hay to cover them up. Now it has snowed nicely and covered everything. Should I uncover them in March?

-in Montana zone 4+/5-?


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## badlander (Jun 7, 2009)

snarg13 said:


> I just picked up an old book that said that a lot of winter kill can actually occur due to over mulching with the wrong kind of sticky rotting leaves caused by 2 problems 1)rot and 2)breaking dormancy early because of compost heat generation.
> 
> So what does anyone use for mulch, and when do you take it off?
> 
> ...


*If you think about it, that does really make sense. The leaves would decay resulting in increased temperature around the berry plants. I have to admit that I didn't mulch at all this fall thanks to developing back problems. But the year before I mulched with brome hay that we had on hand. I usually use the same medium to mulch between the rows. The winter before, we mulched half of the canes with hay and left the rest of them uncovered. The uncovered plants fared as well as the mulched plants but we had a pretty uneventful winter also.

Our berries had their best year to date last year as two year old plants. We harvested over 60 pounds off of 50+ plants. What we had trouble with was a new pest, the Spotted Wing Drosophila fruit fly that ruined the last 15 pounds of berries we picked. We discovered the little devils in about half of our canes which meant the last half of our crop was unmarketable. I urge everyone who has black berries or raspberries to read up on them and see if they are in your area. I was talking to home extension plant specialist after I discovered that our berries were being taken over by wasps that had taken a liking to attacking me when I tried to pick berries. She told me it could be worse. We could be fighting the Drosophila fruit fly because the first cases had just been found in the county next to us. She told me what to look for, mushy 'ripe' berries. You split them open and sure enough, there is a little maggot inside. I have to set out traps this spring and if they are positive, I have to spray them and hope for the best. In the mean time, we have the honor of being the first infested arbor in our county. Our chickens loved them. The ones that were not infested went into our freezer for pie and jam.

So much for trying to raise our plants as 'natural' as possible. 

In the mean time, I have people clamoring for our berries. I have room to plant more but I'm holding off to see how this fruit fly infestation develops or doesn't in our area.

As for uncovering your berries. Better late then early. I would keep track of what they are doing under the mulch, carefully pull the mulch back the first of March and look at your canes. If they are showing green leaf buds or even little leaves, I would uncover them but keep your mulch in place so you can cover them back up if the temp takes a dive on you. We are in zone 5b and if memory serves me right our canes started leafing out the end of march last year. 

*


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## snarg13 (Dec 30, 2015)

Seems like everything is a month early. It's been in the 60's (maybe higher) several days and all the snow is gone. The lilac buds are starting to push. I uncovered a few of the berries and see that some of the evergreen growth that remained has started to even add new growth on the Prime ark freedoms. Long term trend is for temps to not get below 20-25 f so I'm going to uncover stuff. Seems to be quite a lot of mold, especially where I used the grass hay; straw is less moldy, but in general I mulched way too close to the plants.


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