# Spinning 101



## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Here's the first page of Carol's Spinning 101 copied from the other forum. I've taken out the chit chat and some of the nonessential info and hopefully it'll all fit here. I'll get the rest done soon. 

From carol ---- 
I taught myself to spin on a drop spindle, using only the 
book, Hands On Spinning by Lee Raven. That book is the best 
I've found and you can learn to spin from it, too. That's why 
we're here. 

Spinning is a tranquil and very relaxing art. And that easy 
mental state is what you want to have when you are learning 
to spin. If you get tense and wound up, you will end up fighting with the wool and that never works. Your fiber should be held 
so that it slips gently and softly thru your fingers the 
entire time you are spinning. Your fiber should never been 
held with a death grip by either fingers or fist! Learning to 
spin should be stress free - you go at your own pace. So 
instead of being tense and anxious about learning, put a big 
grin on your face and get ready to take the first steps to 
years of future adventrues and pleasure with so many wonderful 
fibers! 

I need to know a few things from the spinners-to-be. Do you 
have a top or bottom whorl spindle? Are you using fleece, drum 
carded batts, or commercially prepared wool? 

How long is the wool you want to spin? The way to check length 
is to lightly pinch a very few fibers on the top and gently 
pull them out. You should end up with with fibers in your 
fingers as wispy as cobwebs. Stretch the fibers out. Look. Are 
they all the same length? Some short and some long? Take 
another pinch and look again. Same as the first? Roughly 
measure the shortest and the longest and let me know what you 
have in length. I think it's easier to learn with fiber that's 
3" to 4" or longer, but you can learn on the shorter fiber, 
like merino, too. 

Okay! First assignment! Work this part with just fingers, no 
spindle yet. 

Read page 6 then go on and read page 8 thru 11. STOP RIGHT HERE! 

Take a look at the photos on page 8 and 10. See how thin that 
yarn is? I want you to use more fiber and fingerspin a single 
at least twice the diameter of the one in those photos. Here's 
why. I started out following the book, one page at a time. And so I tried to go as thin as in the photos. And then, waaaay 
back on page 26 is where you learn to make a join. Go look at 
that photo! Big fluffy ends of thicker yarn are easily joined. 
But if your yarn drifts apart, with yarn the size spun on 
pages 8 & 10, making joins can get hard. So do yourself a 
favor, and aim to spin a larger thread than shown in these 
beginning photos. 

Now, onward again. Get a handful of wool and follow the 
pictures on page 8 and 10. When you have about that length of 
yarn made, hold both ends and move them an inch or so toward 
each other. Does the slack in the yarn twist and kink itself 
up into a tight wad? If so, you just learned what too much 
twist is. When you relax the ends of this test piece, it 
should ply - twist around itself - and look like finished 
yarn. There is a fine line between getting enough twist in the 
wool to form yarn that won't "drift" apart and having so much 
that it kinks like crazy. So straighten this test piece out 
tautly again, and remove some of the twist. Hold and move the 
ends closer to test it again. If it still kinks and wads, take 
some more twist out. Keep going until you get the self plying 
effect that looks like finished yarn. 

Now, gently and lightly snap the two ends of the straightened 
test piece apart. Did the yarn hold? Or did you feel the 
fibers moving apart even a little bit? If you aren't sure, 
then stretch it apart and hold it under tension between your 
fingers until you can tell if it drifts. If it holds, you have 
yarn. If the spun fiber drifts even a little, it needs more 
twist. ALWAYS have enough twist in the yarn to stop any 
drifting before you go on to spin more. 

This above is all of the essentials of spinning. You need to 
be really comfortable with this experimental finger spinning 
before taking one more step. It's all about making yarn from 
fiber and that's it. 

Have fun with this! Try drafting the fiber thicker and see how 
little twist is needed to make it yarn. Do some really thin 
and see how much more twist is needed. Try different fibers if 
you have them. All fibers are different - each has it's own 
character and your fingertips tell you a great deal about any 
fiber. You can try finger spinning 5 or 6 sewing threads. And 
pill bottle cotton. Cat fur. Dog fur. Dandelion fuzz. There's 
a whole world of stuff available and a lot of it is spinable!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

I want to hear about what you each are doing and how you are 
thinking and coming along. This course REQUIRES feedback! 
Have fun! 


From RebeccaCT ------------- 
I have a bottom whorl spindle (it's an Ashford, it seems kind 
of clunky). I'll have to bring that and the book over in front 
of the computer and read Carol's email. 
I have lots of fiber to choose from... I have some 
commercially prepared Merino (which I think I won't use 
because I can't get it to hold twist)... I have some 
commercial top (not sure what breed)... I have some hand 
carded Cotswold, some hand carded Romney... some other things 
which I think would be too hard to work with for now. What's a 
good one to start with? 


From carollm24450 ---------- 
Okay, what fiber should you each use? All of 'em, at least at 
this point where you are finger spinning. Just pull off a lock 
or small piece of sliver or roving and finger spin it. You 
will start to see right away just how different the fibers are 
from each other. 

Deb, why not use that 2002 washed targhee that is really 
another wool? But DO play around with the other fibers and the 
finger spinning. The more you play with the finger spinning, 
the more fingers and eyes learn lessons about yarn and how 
it's made. 

Rebecca, how about that commercial wool? Can you remember if 
it's top, or roving? If it's top, most all of the fibers are 
going to be long, with a few shorter ones. If it's roving, the 
fibers will be a lot of different lengths. Sliver (sly-ver) is 
an untwisted ribbon or rope-like form of prepared fiber. So a 
sliver can be either top or roving. Check the fiber length, 
but I'm going to guess that it should be just fine for when we 
get to using the spindles. Slivers are made, as far as I know, 
only for spinner's and the odd felter now and then. 
__________________ 
For those who need a drop spindle, one can be 
ordered here: 
http://www.earthguild.com/products/spinning/spsmtool.htm 

If you need fiber to spin, you can order the sample pack like 
Mona Lea did, here: 
http://www.earthguild.com/products/spinning/spnatfib.htm 

I suppose I'd best offer a disclaimer: I have no connection at 
all with the above company where supplies can be ordered and I 
have no connection at all with the book other than using it to 
teach myself to spin. Drop spindles and commercially prepared 
fiber can be found in many places but if you have to order 
something, Earth Guild has a good reputation in dealing with 
customers. 

MTDeb 
Here's the link where I ordered my book. It was $12 compared 
to $19 and free shipping. And, I THINK, this is the one where 
you didn't have to have a credit card, they'll bill you later. 

www.bestbookbuys.com 

From Mona Lea ------- 
My finger spinning went pretty well last night after I 
realized that it would work better if I had on sweat pants 
instead of shorts for rolling the fiber up my leg! I am 
getting ready to go to town and get a couple of things to put 
together a bottom whorl drop spindle. I think I can get what I 
need at the hobby/craft store. If not I may order a bottom 
whorl one and try my top whorl later on. I am glad you told us 
to concentrate on the finger spinning at first, it is helping 
me get used to watching the fiber instead of worring about the 
spindle. My first finger spinning was too tight, but I think I 
have it about right now. Off to town. 


From Carol--------- 
Are you learning what is way too much twist and what is not 
enough twist? It takes a while to find out what the right 
amount of twist is. 
__________________ 
From Mona -------- 
Carol, 
I got my stuff today and made a bottom whorl drop spindle and 
it sure didn't cost much! I got a 2 and 1/2 inch wooden wheel 
that had a 3/8 hole in it, a piece of 3/8 dowel, and a little 
gold cup hook. I glued the wheel on the dowel, put in the cup 
hook and sanded the dowel to somewhat of a rounded point. I am 
so proud of it! Hope you can teach me to use it. I am still 
practicing on the finger spinning, I think I am still spinning 
a bit too tight. When I bring the ends toward each other it 
still wants to kink up some. Is that normal or too tight? I 
will keep on practicing. --------- 
From RebeccaCT ------ 
When I try finger spinning and let go, the whole thing 
unspins. Is that normal? Is the whole point that once you have 
more yarn spun it won't unspin? Or am I doing something wrong. 

I found that the Romney is easier to work with than the Merino 
top. (I also find the Angora sheddings that I collect out of 
the cage spin really well. But I don't think Angora is 
probably an economical fiber to learn on, unless they are 
gotten from the walls of your rabbit's cage. ) 

-------- 
From MOgal ------- 
When you spin yarn, you put the twist into it that holds the 
fiber together by compression and friction. Just as when you 
twist a rubber band, it wants to resume its normal 
configuration, so does the fiber. With both the fiber and the 
rubber band, the mechanical energy of twisting will either be 
released or you must retain it some way. Until you ply the 
yarn or "set the twist" in some way, it will always want to 
resume its original configuration. You can set the twist in 
singles or plied yarns by leaving it on a storage bobbin of 
some sort (even a stick will do) or by moistening it with 
water or steaming it then allowing it to dry under enough 
tension to keep the kinks out. Think in terms of using a 
curling iron on your hair. You wrap your hair around the 
curling iron and allow the heat of the iron to "set" a curl in 
your hair. Same with the fiber. 

Plying sets the twist by releasing some of the twist inserted 
into the yarn while spinning the singles if they are all spun 
in one direction, say clockwise then plied counterclockwise. 
When the singles have released enough twist during plying, the 
yarn will be stable, will no longer try to untwist (unless you 
over twisted during plying), and then will be referred to as 
"balanced." If you allow a skein of balanced yarn to hang, it 
will lie in one long loop rather than twisting again. That's a 
whole other question and you aren't there yet. 
Report Post | IP: Logged 
Posts: 465 

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From carollm24450 
Mogal gave a wonderful explanation of twist and how it works. 
Thank you! It's better than I could have done!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

MOgal 
One thing I forgot in talking about twist--you can check if a 
plied yarn is balanced by holding it under slight tension and 
examining it with a magnifying glass, just a low power hand 
held deal is fine--mine are "printer's loupes" since hubby is 
in the printing industry and are 10x. What you will see is the 
individual plies at an angle to the axis of the yarn BUT you 
should also be able to see individual fibers within the plies. 
If your plied yarn is balanced, the individual fibers will be 
parallel to the axis of the yarn. It's also fun to see the 
angle of your twist but that isn't a beginner issue so don't 
get too obsessive about it just now. 

carollm24450 
Many thanks should go to Stoneground for sending the following 
link: 
http://www.joyofhandspinning.com/HowToDropspin.html 

There is a world of info on using a drop spindle at this site 
and some very short, very small video clips already there. 
Y'all go read to your hearts content and print all of the info 
there to read again later on. This site is a great resource!! 
Thanks again for the wonderful link, Stoneground! 

Meanwhile, I need to know what kind of fiber you are going to 
use. Just need to know if you are working with washed fleece 
or commercially prepared wool. Please don't buy something 
expensive like merino or angora to learn on! Just about any 
medium grade of wool will do just fine! We need to have some 
conversations about how to prepare both types of fibers for 
spinning and we can start that now. 

There is a video I think people learning to spin on drop 
spindles sure ought to get. The title is Drop Spindle Spinning 
with Melda Montgomery. It's 39 minutes and teaches how to spin 
on a bottom whorl spindle. It covers predrafting, inchworm 
(short draw), spinning from a lock or a handful of fiber. Cost 
is $17.95. It can be ordered from Woodland Woolworks at 
800-547-3725. I haven't seen this one myself, but other 
spinning videos are so good that I don't see why this one 
wouldn't be. If you get it, tell the rest of us about it. 

There are five videos made about spinning on a wheel and I 
have all of them. I was out here on my own and if there were 
any spinning workshops within 3 hours drive of here I sure 
couldn't find them. From info on workshops I found in 
Spin-Off, the cost of workshops was usually a chunk of change. 
Even so, the videos weren't cheap either. A workshop is all 
over and done with forever after it's finished. But I could 
watch and rewatch a video, if I wanted or needed to, until I 
wore the tape right out. So, I got them, a couple at a time. 
And years later, I'm still dragging those videos out to 
refresh my memory of some technique I want to use. I'm still 
learning new skills from them, too. Even after all this time. 
So videos are a great way to learn if you aren't lucky enough 
to be living smack in the middle of a bunch of avid and very 
experienced spinners. Get the one on the drop spindle first. 
If you are going to go on to a wheel, go ahead and get 
Spinning Wool: Basics & Beyond with Patzy Zawistoski. It's 
$39.95. Woodland Woolworks has a neat catalog and carries all 
of the videos. 

The only one I wouldn't buy again is one of the most expensive 
at $39.95 and it's Handspinning, Advanced Techniques, with 
Mabel Ross. She is very much THE Perfectionist Spinner and she 
does indeed turn out mile after mile of absolutely perfect 
yarn. But I like the small variations that make my handspun 
yarn look like exactly what it is. So I can't generate too 
much energy for cranking out yarn that looks like it was 
produced by a machine. Now, the above is my personal opinion. 
I'm sure that there are many other spinners who think Mable 
Ross is wonderful. 

The other videos are: 
Spinning & Plying Textured Yarns, with Patsy Zawistoski 
Spinning Cotton, Silk, Flax, with Patsy Zawistoski 
Spinning Exotic Fibers and Novelty Yarns, with Judith 
MacKenzie 

There is just no getting around the fact that spinning is best 
learned by watching someone who knows more than you do. And 
videos do that job very well. 


From Marchwind-------- 
I do have a question for you if you have a minute. When I spin 
the spindle and I have my drafting triangle, or whatever it is 
called in spindling, my spindle begins to wobble when I get it 
going at a fair clip! I know from reading the book that Lee 
considers this a sign of an un balenced spindle but I'm not so 
sure in this case. My fibers are straight up from the whorl 
there is no odd angle and the spinning is fairly uniformed. 
Maybe I am getting carried away and spinning on too long of a line? When it wobbles it tends to stop spinning and reverse 
direction undoing my work. Any ideas????? 

I posted the sight for the Victorian Videos on one of the 
fiber threads. I'll see if I can find it again and post it 
here along with Woodland Woolworks. Patsy Z is a great lady I 
have taken many,many classes and workshops with her. She had a 
special connection with our guild. She is a very practical 
person and not as much as a profectionist as Mable. 

Here is the Victorian Video site: 
http://www.victorianvid.com/catalog.html 

Here is the Woodland Woolworks site: 
http://www.woodlandwoolworks.com/ 

I would like to say that Woodland Woolworks is a great palce. 
One day I would like to go and visit their shop. They do do 
lay-away, and they have used wheels and looms and will take 
things as trade ins. (I am in no way affiliated, I sure wish I 
was ) 
__________________ 


carollm24450 
Registered User 

Marchwind, is the wobble always toward the end of a draw? Do 
you have a long thread spun? The spindle, both top and bottom 
whorl tend to wobble badly when they start slowing down. (I 
have a top spindle I've been practicing with and they both 
wobble when they slow down for me.) When that happens, I 
usually drop the bottom tip of the spindle to the floor and 
even lay the spindle over on it's side, then pick it up and 
wind on. And sometimes I just don't get a good spin on the 
spindle and it wobbles right from the first then. Unless it's 
wobbling all the time, I wouldn't worry about it. 

Thanks for the links! And I'm a light shade of envy green 
about you getting to take classes with Patsy Z! Don't I just 
wish I could have done that, too! 

Okay, spinning with commercially prepared fiber. I don't like 
to stop to get more fiber any more often than I'm forced to, 
so I use a long length of the sliver (pronounced SLY-ver). I 
take a piece of the sliver about 2 feet long, then divide it 
longwise into three or four parts. The slyver is very, very


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

compacted and before it can be spun well, it needs to be 
"opened". So I take one of the parts of my divided sliver and 
with my hands about 4 to 6 inches apart, gently pull until I 
can feel the fiber moving just a little. That movement is what 
you want - the fibers are starting to slip against each other. 
By the time you get to the end of the sliver section, the 
"opening" may have doubled it's length and that's just fine. I 
wind the section around my left wrist, because I'm right 
handed and my left hand controls the fiber while my right hand 
draws it out to spin. If this isn't absolutely clear, please 
let me know because this is a very important step. After that, 
the only thing left to do is spin! 

Has everyone had a look at the videos on the link Stoneground 
gave us? Those show exactly how to spin with the drop spindle. 
It works the same way with both top and bottom whorl spindles. 


Chandler, I haven't found that either top or bottom whorl drop 
spindle is easier to use. Both are easy. It's getting into the 
rhythm with both hands working together and watching the 
spindle so you can stop it before it reverses that takes 
practice. And spinning with either spindle or wheel takes 
practice - there's no getting around that. 

Those of you who are using fleece - do you have hand cards or 
a carder? 

Page TWo of SPINNING 101 

From Mona--- 
When I let the two ends of my spun fiber go towards each 
other, it twists around itself, sort of like it has been 
plied. Is this right, or do I still have too much twist? It is 
looking pretty good and seems to be strong, but I can't decide 
how thin or thick to spin the yarn. Is thinner stronger and 
drifts less, or is it just according to how thick you want the 
yarn to be? Some of mine is as thin as crochet thread and some 
is as thick as rug yarn!! I am sure enjoying this and am 
getting an awful craving for a spinning wheel. I am on baby 
watch tonight (banty eggs due to hatch in the incubator) and 
am doing some drop spinning too. I am hankering to start 
knitting too, I used to know the basic stitches, but it has 
been a long time since I have picked up a knitting needle. I 
think I was born crocheting, my grandma taught me when I was 
just a little girl. Knitting socks sounds like a lot of fun 
though and a good carry-along project. I hope I haven't asked 
too many questions. 
Mona 

From Carol--- 
Yes, when you take a section of your spun yarn, called a 
"single", and move the ends together, it _should_ twist on 
itself and look like plied yarn! Sometimes, you will get one 
little self plied section and sometimes two or more, depending 
on how close together you move the section ends. And it should 
be a little tight, too. 

Here's why. You are spinning clockwise. When you ply two 
singles together, you spin counterclockwise and that removes 
some of the twist you put into the singles. So making the 
singles with a bit of extra twist is what's needed. Only 
experience teaches you just how much twist is right in 
singles. And that differs from yarn to yarn, depending on what 
sort of yarn you want to spin. For a very soft, fat yarn, I 
put in only as much twist as needed to prevent drift. For a 
harder thin yarn, I put in a lot more twist. 

Bottom line is no matter what your spun yarn looks like, you 
can use it. I had some all but glowing purple wool that came 
with my first drop spindle kit and I so concentrated on 
spinning an even yarn that I didn't pay much attention to how 
much twist I was putting in. After I plied it, it kinked up 
like crazy - waaaay too much twist in the singles and the 
plying. I was heartbroken! I mentioned it once to an 86 year 
old lady who had been spinning and weaving and teaching others 
these arts for most of her adult life. She grinned really big 
and told me it was NOT ruined yarn - it was novelty yarn! She 
congratulated me on how nice my yarn was and told me to keep 
it because one day, I would find a use for it. Purple isn't a 
color I use much for myself, so I still have those balls of 
purple novelty yarn and every time I come across them in my 
yarn stash I still smile, remembering that wonderful, gentle 
lady and her kind and encouraging words to me. 

You are spinning thick and thin yarn? Congratulations! That's 
exactly what everyone else spins when they get started. You 
are learning to spin the spindle, control the fiber, draft, 
get both hands working in harmony with each other and watch 
the twist going into the yarn - all at the same time. As you 
spin more, you will start doing these things more or less 
automatically and _then_ you will be able to concentrate on 
spinning an even yarn. It's all a natural process and it takes 
time with that spindle to get it all down. Flip thru the pages 
of projects in the back of HOS and notice that a sketch of the 
size yarn needed for each project is included. And that ALL of 
those yarns are thick and thin yarns. 

Fill up that spindle and then wind it off into a ball. 
Remember that when plying, you will be working with two 
singles so the spindle will fill up faster. If you spin two 
filled spindles, you will end up with two skeins of yarn, and 
that's okay. Spin another spindle full and wind that into a 
ball too. Then ply them togther and presto you have your very 
first skein of yarn. Treasure it and keep it around to use to 
gauge your spinning progress. You are going to be surprised at 
how fast you start spinning a more uniform yarn! But that is 
something that comes only with practice. 

Your goal in winding off into balls is to end up with a nice, 
_soft_ ball of yarn. When you squeeze your ball, it should 
give a good bit - your finger tips should sink into it. You 
don't want to wind it so tight that it's almost hard as a rock 
because your are stretching the fire out of your freshly spun 
single and that will throw your plying off. Trust me. 

Here's how to wind off. See the last paragraph on page 33 of 
HOS and the sketch at the bottom of the page for your 
reference. I start by winding the end of the single around two 
fingers for maybe 15 turns. Then take that off my fingers, 
turn it 90 degrees and wind another 15 turns over the first 
ones. That makes the core of the ball. Then I switch to three 
fingers and keep winding then turning the ball 90 degrees. 
DON'T pull that yarn tight! 

When you get two balls done, you are ready to ply. Go to page 
80 in HOS and read the section on plying. On page 87 is a 
picture of plied yarn. Use that as a guide to what you are 
trying for. DO keep your balls of singles apart! The singles 
want to unite with another single, because of the unbalanced 
twist in singles, and they _will_ kink up with each other into 
a bad snarl before you can ply them if given the chance. 

Like your thick and thin spinning, odds are good that your 
very first plying will be too tight in some places, too loose 
in others, and just right in yet other places. So what? Be not 
discouraged - you can still use this yarn! When knitted or 
crocheted, the uneven plying doesn't show so don't worry about 
it. Just relax and enjoy the spinning and the plying. You 
_will_ get more even and balanced with each skein of yarn you 
spin! WARNING! Be very aware of repetitive motion injury! I was so 
enchanted with drop spindle spinning that I spent hours and 
hours at a time spinning. I spun at home, I spun in the car, I 
spun walking thru the isles in the grocery store, I spun every 
time I had to sit and wait somewhere. And I stretched my left 
hand, the fiber holding hand, up as if I were reaching for the 
stars, just so I could get a few extra inches spun before 
having to stop to wind on again. After a pitifully short time, 
I ended up with a badly wrecked shoulder. Pain was so bad that 
I finally had to go to the doctor. I had developed bursitis - 
a bad inflamation of my shoulder. Treatment was injections 
INTO the joint and they hurt worse, for a couple of hours, 
than the shoulder ever did. Even worse, the doc firmly stated 
- in front of DH - that my drop spindle days were forever 
gone. So, DON'T STRETCH like I did. Those few extra inches on 
each spin are NOT worth all the pain and suffering you will 
let yourself in for if you do stretch! 

After several months of living with a serious fiber addict 
forced to go cold turkey, and putting up with the resulting 
moaning and wailing and sad and listless dragging about, DH 
agreed that the purchase of a spinning wheel should be moved 
to the top of our to do list. That's when the Babe's wheel 
came to live with us. Eight months later, I'd worn that wheel 
out and while DH cheerfully made the needed repairs to the 
Babe's, it was plain to both of us that a more sturdy wheel 
was needed. About 6 months later, I heard of a used Louet 
wheel for sale. We jumped in the car after making a quick call 
to the owner and it came home with us. So, now I have two 
wheels and at times, I have yarn in process on both of them. 
One wheel is wonderful. Two is having my cake and eating it 
too. I keep thinking, very briefly, about selling the Babe's 
but it really wants to stay here with us so those thoughts 
don't last long. I'm not about to part with it as long as I 
have a use for it and I do, I do, I do. 

I am so tickled that you gals are really spinning, and was 
laughing aloud to myself thinking about it. DH asked why I was 
laughing and I told him. He promptly burst into laughter of 
his own. I asked why and he said "Oh, just thinking about you 
infecting so many others with your own addiction". Yeah! You 
go, gals!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

From Carol--- 
Here's the way to get some power spin on your spindle so you 
can spin more and faster. Sit on an armless chair. If you are 
right handed, put the spindle shaft near your knee and with 
the flat of your hand, roll it up toward your hip. And do this 
FAST. Just let go of the spindle when it nears your hip, and 
being aware of breakables in the immediate area, just let it 
go. It may swing out in a wide arc and then settle down, but 
you can really get a power spin going this way. If you are 
left handed, put the spindle shaft near your left him and 
again with the flat of your hand, roll it down toward your 
knee, again FAST. Do make sure living things are not in the 
path of the spindle because it can pack a wallop if it hits 
something. See how easy it is? And now you can practice 
picking up speed with your drafting. The twist is really going 
to fly into the fiber but with a little practice, you will 
probably end up spinning about three times faster than you are 
now. 

I hope everyone will spin at least two spindles full of 
singles and then ply them before going on to the wheel. You 
really need to do this, I promise. Deb? Are you still with me? 

Once you have your yarn plied, then you need to make a skein 
out of it. I fiddled and fussed with this and then decided I 
needed a niddy noddy to skein my yarn. Almost had a heart 
attack over how much they cost and wasn't about to spend that 
much! So I studied the diagrams, went out into the woods and 
collected a dead standing sapling about 4' tall, and made my 
own. You can, too. There is nothing elegant or beautiful about 
it, but it did a grand job of measuring yardage. If anyone 
wants specific instructions on how I did it, let me know and 
I'll post it. Main thing to remember is to be sure the upper 
and lower arms are at 90 degrees to each other. Place them 18" 
apart and you have a niddly noddy that will measure off 2 yard 
skeins, and that's a right handy size skein. 

How many spinners here are going to go on to using a wheel? I 
need to know what kind of wheel you have - single drive, 
double drive, scotch tension??? I've only spun on a single 
drive wheel but if you have something else, I know someone 
else on the FAC thread has experience they will be willing to 
share. 

I've made a good bit of my fiber related equipment, including 
drop spindles, niddy noddy, lazy kate, double pointed knitting 
needles in sets of 5 needles and even one pair of regular 
knitting needles. I have a log of maple tree drying right now 
and I'm going to try making knitting needles out of that. I 
share a tight fist on the pocketbook along with Stoneground, 
and I can't make myself spend money on something I can make 
for myself and it doesn't matter to me if what I make is a 
looong way from furniture quality. I kinda like the 
"primitive" look anyway. And I still smile when I see my nn 
and remember how I felt when I finished it. Took me about 40 
minutes once I got the wood in the house and got to work on 
it. Only tool used was a pocket knife. It was ugly as all get 
out, but for the first time ever, I could measure the yardage 
I was spinning and I was delighted and pleased as punch with 
myself, too. 

Happy spindling! 
__________________ 
Carol 


From Marchwind--- 
Re: Niddy noddy 
I got an interesting one as a door prize, it is made our of 
PVC. I think it was the Babe guy who makes it. It would be so 
easy to make here is what it is made out of. 

2 t-fittings that are for 7/8" (outside diameter) PVC pipe. 

4 pieces 3 1/2" long of 7/8" (outside diameter) PVC pipe. 

1 piece 12" long of 7/8" (outside diameter) PVC pipe. 

3 rubber O rings to fit on outside of shorter pieces 

1 small piece (3/8") velcro (the firmer side) to fit on the 
12" PVC 


I don't think these are glued but I suppose you could glue 
them. Have them (the shorter pieces with the t-fittings) at a 
90 degree angle to each other on the ends of the longer piece. 
Put the rubber O rings on three of the ends that are at 90 
degrees. The little velcro piece goes on the 12" PVC (this 
holds the end of the yarn. On a traditional Niddy Noddy you 
would tie the end to the main shaft. 

If you have any questions on this let me know. I'm not sure 
how clear this is. Asthetically it isn't much to look at but 
it is light weight and probably inexpensive to make. 


From Guest--- 

Have you been following this thread but can't afford a drop 
spindle? I found a link to the Spin Off article on how to make 
a spindle with old CD's: 
http://www.interweave.com/spin/Spin_Off/spin_out/CDspindles.pdf 

You can use music CD's someone doesn't like, the free ones you 
get in the mail, or if you don't have any and really want to 
do this, PM me and I could mail you a couple (as long as I 
don't get tons of requests!) 

From Marchwind--- 
The trick with the CD spindles is finding the right gromet to 
fit the hole. Someone in my guild found something that worked 
but now I can't remember what. I think I have a guild meeting 
on Thursday, I'll ask her if I can remember and post it here. 
__________________ 

From Carol-- 
All right, Mona! Yes, now that you have plied your yarn you 
want to set the twist. I always tie both ends of the skein in 
a big floppy bow, so they are easy to find again. And I tie 
the skein in at least 4 places, using a figure 8 tie. A 
drawing of that is on pg 30 of HOS. Directions for setting the 
twist start on pg 32. 

I wash my skeins in hot water. It cools off as the yarn soaks 
in the wash water and I make sure the temp of the rinse water 
is as close to the temp of the cooled wash water as possible. 
Then one final rinse in water with Downy, or any other fabric 
softener. I usually whiz my skein in a salad spinner, to 
remove as much water as possible. Then I put both hands inside 
the skein and snap them apart several times to straighten the 
skein as much as possible. Then hold it up with one hand and 
look at it. If the yarn wants to kink up in places, or the 
skein twists to one side or the other, it needs to have some 
weight on it as it dries. DH made me a board with pegs to use 
for drying skeins and put it on a wall. When I need to weight 
a skein, I put gravel in a plastic quart sized yogurt 
container and keep adding the gravel until the kinks 
straighten out. The yogurt container lays in the bottom loop 
of the skein and rests against the wall. Be careful not to get 
more weight on the skein than is really needed. If the skein 
is stretched too much, after being knit up, it will have to be 
seriously blocked after each washing. Wool can retain a lot of water but still feel dry, so give 
your skein plenty of time to get good and dry. I dry the 
skeins in an outside covered walk way. When it feels dry to 
the touch, I take the weight out and bring the skein inside to 
dry another couple of days before storing it. There are 
probably as many ways to dry skeins as there are people 
spinning them, so don't take my method as the only way to do 
it. This is just what works for me and where I live now. 
Gravel is available right outside my front door, from the 
driveway. Before moving here, I used dried beans in the yogurt 
containers for the needed weight. 

Right now, when you have just learned to spin, the thick and 
thin yarn probably doesn't look too good to you since the 
"standard" yarn is smooth and even. But thick and thin yarn is 
also commercially made and it's fun to knit or crochet with, 
so don't be unhappy with it! As you spin more, your drafting 
will become more and more even with each skein. And once you 
start producing smoother skeins, sooner or later you will want 
to spin thick and thin again. You're going to be surprised at 
how hard that is to do intentionally! 

On page 14, in the upper left corner, is a drawing of the 
drafting triangle. As your hands learn to draft and keep the 
spindle going, you can pay more attention to that drafting 
triangle. The more even you can keep that triangle, the more 
uniform your spun singles will get and that means a more even 
skein. 

If everyone will spin at least a pound of prepared fiber on 
the drop spindle, moving to spinning on a wheel will be much, 
much easier. Two pounds is even better.


----------



## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

From Carol--- 
Here's how I wash mohair. I'm kinda gun shy after felting that 
one batch, so I'm overly careful with it. I have hot water 
from my faucet at about 130 degrees and I run a pot full of 
that, add Dawn, and then add the mohair, a handful at a time. 
I let it soak, for at least half an hour. Then I drain it and 
refill the pot with water that is about the same temp as the 
washing water was. I gently squeeze as much wash water as I 
can out of the fiber and then put it in the first rinse water 
and let it soak. With each change of the water, the water gets 
a little cooler than before. I add Downy to the last rinse 
water. If I get busy and can't get back to the mohair when the 
soak time is up it's no big deal, even if the water has cooled 
all the way down. I just go on rinsing with cooler water. The 
wash is the only water that needs to be really hot. 

If you like the shine in the dirty mohair, you are going to 
float with joy when you see the luster of the cleaned fiber! 

I made my niddy noddy out of three sticks, straight from the 
woods. It was old, dried out wood and the bark was long gone. 
I used one 22" stick and two 12" sticks. About 2" from the top 
of the long stick, I cut a notch with a pocketknife and then 
cut a matching notch in the middle of one short stick. Then I 
fitted the notches together and lashed the two sticks tight 
with a strong cord. Follow this link for a picture of a niddy 
noddy: http://www.mielkesfarm.com/niddies.htm Do you see how 
the two short pieces are at right angles to each other? That's 
what makes the niddy work so well. About 2" from the bottom of 
the long stick, cut a notch at right angles to the one on top. 
Notch the middle of the second short stick, lash together and 
you are in business. Just be sure to keep the two short sticks 
about 18" apart and you will end up with a niddy that measures 
two yards. When you are ready to use it, wind the end of your 
yarn around the outer edge of one stick a couple of times so 
it will hold and then wind the yarn on it, around the outer 
ends of the shorter sticks. If you wrap to secure the yarn 
around a bottom stick, then you next bring the yarn up to the 
edge of the top stick, then down to the bottom stick, then up 
to the top stick and so on. Look at the drawings of the niddy 
in HOS, pages 30 and 31, and you will be able to do it the 
first time you try. 

Thanks for the idea of using a dehydrator for drying fiber. 
I'm doing just that right this minute. I can't seem to get in 
tune with Mama Nature when it comes to washing fiber. If I'm 
washing, it's raining. If I can't get to washing fiber, the 
sun is shinning brightly. I had a whole mohair fleece that I 
washed last night and this morning, it's storming. Again. So I 
put it in my dehydrator and it's working wonderfully!!! Thanks 
for sharing this great idea. 

Yes, the variation in naturally colored fleece is surprising, 
isn't it? I have a Shetland X fleece that I've been all but 
drooling over that has these color variations. I'm not sure 
how I'm going to use it yet. I love the tweedy look when the 
different colors are blended together, but I'm also thinking 
about sorting it out and maybe using it for stripes. Sure do 
love looking at it tho! And the texture of it is pure heaven. 
You are going to love that sheep and wool festival, too. From Carol-- 
Sounds as if both of you are having the same problem. It's 
called "take up". Take up is what is happening when you have 
spun your yarn and now it's winding on to the bobbin. If it's 
too loose it won't wind on the bobbin and/or it jumps off of 
the hooks on the flyer. Too tight, and it jerks the yarn right 
out of your hand and you get to see just how fast that little 
fluffy end can wind itself into invisibility on the bobbin. 
Another cause of the yarn not winding on is that the leader is 
tied loosely to the bobbin and just slides as the bobbin 
spins. Make sure your leader is tied on _tight_! 

Take some time and learn right now how to quickly and easily 
adjust the tension (aka take up) of your wheels. Put an empty 
bobbin in the flyer, with about a two foot leader already tied 
tightly on your bobbin. Tie a loop about three inches long on 
the working end of the leader. 

This leader business is one of the very neatest things I've 
learned about spinning. I keep these leaders on all of my 
bobbins. When I'm ready to spin something, I take a wisp of 
the fiber to be spun, finger twist it just a bit, and then 
stick about an inch and a half thru the loop. Take the twisted 
end and bring it down along the spinning fiber. When you start 
treadling, the twist runs down the leader, the loop and into 
the fiber and you have a super strong tie on. This way of 
starting the spinning fiber makes it impossible for the fiber 
to slip away from the leader on the way to the bobbin - if you 
have enough twist in it. 

Okay, back to adjusting your take ups. Get some scrap yarn and 
put it on the leader as above. Then treadle and _feel_ how 
hard your wheel is pulling on the yarn. If it isn't hard at 
all, and if the yarn isn't winding on to the bobbin, stop your 
wheel, find your adjustment knob and turn it - just a little. 
Some wheels you can turn and turn and turn and make only a 
little difference with each turn. Other wheels you can turn 
half an inch and the take up jerks the yarn thru your fingers. 
So adjust a little along, and then test the pull of the take 
up again. After just a couple of tests like this, you will 
find out if you have a hair triggered take up or not. If you 
do, respect it by always making tiny adjustments. 

The take up you want and need at any one time changes often. 
And getting the right take up is one of the most important 
things you need to learn, because you are going to be changing 
it to be faster as you get into your own personal spinning 
rhythm and because of spinning different yarns and types of 
wool. 

Here's what you want in take up right now. You want it strong 
enough that when you want the yarn to wind on to the bobbin, 
it goes right in, as fast as you can feed it in, without 
jumping off of the hooks. You don't want it so strong that 
it's pulling hard all the time you are treadling to put twist 
into the fiber. You both have the Patsy Z video, so go back 
and watch the first part of that tape, where she is going over 
the different types of wheels and where the adjustment knobs 
are. She will show you exactly how to adjust your type of 
wheel. Then sit down and do it until you like the take up. 
Strip the scrap yarn off the bobbin and go back to spinning 
your fiber again. You probably won't get the take up adjusted 
perfectly the first try, but you _will_ be able to fine tune 
the take up as you go along with your spinning. 

As you hum along spinning, watch closely as the fibers slip 
thru your fingers and become yarn. Notice the fineness of the 
fiber you are spinning and let your fingers learn the feel of 
it. The longer you spin, the more fibers and types of wool you 
will want to at least test spin. For me, the feel of each 
fiber is part of the fun and joy of spinning! And your fingers 
learn the feel of the right amount of fiber to draft for each 
type of fiber. 

Believe me, it won't take either of you very long to be 
spinning more even yarns. In fact, you will probably notice a 
big change in each bobbin you fill. Even yarns come with fiber 
drafting practice, and each inch you spin you are getting 
better at more uniform drafting of the fiber. So go ahead and 
_enjoy_ making lumpy, bumpy yarn right now! It's YARN! And 
lumpy bumpy is sure a type of yarn. In fact, I've 
intentionally spun a couple of miles of lumpy bumpy yarn this 
past winter. If nothing else works, just pretend that you 
fully intended to make lumpy bumpy yarn in the first place. 

Now is when you are going to find out if you are a spinning 
addict or a hobby spinner. For addicts, getting in spinning 
practice isn't a chore. The hard part is having to leave the 
wheel to do unimportant things - like cook dinner or put a 
load of laundry on, or the dust is so deep that you simply 
must make it go away for a while. For me, the call of my wheel 
is a siren song I can't resist. I almost always spin at least 
a little, every day. And it's not unusual for me to sit down 
and card or comb and spin all day. 

One very, very important thing I've forgotten to mention. You 
must keep your wheel oiled! 

My wheel calls for oiling at both ends of the bobbin, where it 
rides on the spindle of the flyer. And both ends of the flyer, 
where it goes into the frame of the wheel. The instructions 
say to oil every 30 minutes of spinning. But if I did that, 
I'd have oil dripping. Instead, I've learned to listen to the 
sound my wheel makes and I can tell when I need to oil again. 
I check the lubrication every time I shift to another hook on 
the flyer, too, just by sliding the bobbin back and forth on 
the spindle. If there is any drag at all, I oil. I also keep a 
box of tissues near my wheel and wipe up any excess oil as 
soon as I notice it. Getting the oil out of the yarn isn't 
easy so quick clean up saves me a lot of work later on.


----------



## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

From Mona --- 
Do I need to release the 
tension on the brake band when I am finished spinning for the 
day? I am sure the book tells that somewhere, but I can't find 
it. My Ashford traveler seems to have a pretty touchy tension, 
maybe it is just me though. Well, I must get back to digging 
through my good stuff, I also bought a bunch of old buttons 
and am going to enjoy looking through them. I love auctions! 
Mona 


From Marchwind --- 
As for the moth ball smell I just hate it. I don't know of 
any sure fired cures other than washing it and line drying it. 
Leave it to air for a few days if you need to or wash it a few 
times. Sounds like fun, enjoy! 

The tension on all Ashfords is touchy, that is why it is so 
nice. Just play with it and experiment to see what happens 
when it is too tight. It can really whip that fiber right out 
of your hand. Don't do it with some fibers, like silk or 
angora, you will never find the end of the yarn on the bobbin. 
Some people use a piece of tape to try to find it. Sounds like 
you are having fun with the new wheel. I sure wish I had time 
to spin each day. 

From Susan in TN--- 
Hey all, I am having trouble getting the wool smooth enough 
to spin. What steps do you go thru between washing and carding 
that may help this. I must be leaving something out. Susan 

From Carol---- 
Susan, it sounds as if you are having problems with drafting. 
Go HOS and read page 8 - 11. If you still have questions, let 
me know. 

From Debâ 
I think I have the same problem, Susan. Maybe it's the 
carding???? I don't know if I'm doing that right either. 
Should you card all kinds of fibers or are there different 
methods for different kinds of fibers? I've watched the videos 
but I'm still not real sure I'm doing it right. I end up with 
a lot of lumps in my rolag. Is it because I'm not carding it 
right or well enough or is it the fiber??????? I'm not sure I 
understand the difference between combing and carding 
either???? 
Deb 


From Marchwind --- 
I do not have the time or the energy to go into it all right 
now. I have taken 1/2 day workshops on how to crad wool and 
other fibers. Some of the main points are: 

Don't have the teeth locking or really touching, maybe just 
barely juat a whisper of a touch. 

Watch the wrists for fatigue. 

It is very possible to over card wool and other fibers. 

Proper loading of the cards is important. Do NOt over load a 
card. It is far better to have a very samll amount of wool on 
the card than too much. You shouls be able to see the teeth 
and backing through the wool. You may be putting toomuch wool 
on your cards. Not only will this ruin your cards but you can 
do a lot of damage to your wrists/arms. You shouldnot have to 
pull the cards through the wool or fight with them in any way. 
It should be like combing/brushing hair, be gentle. 

From Carol--- 
I just went zipping thru the Spinning Wool: Basics and Beyond 
video on fast forward and found several parts I think will 
help both of you. My VCR is the cheapo kind and doesn't have a 
tape counter on it but when I stop it, very briefly it flashes 
on the TV screen the length of time into the video. Sooooo, 
that's all the reference I can give you to help you find these 
places in the tape. 

Drafting fiber is a bit confusing because we actually draft 
twice, usually. We predraft the fiber right before we spin and 
draft it while spinning. Some very experienced spinners hold 
the staple in their hands and spin right from that, without 
any drafting. Frankly, I'm just not that good. I predraft and 
draft. With practice I'm sure I could pick up spinning 
directly from the staples, but it just hasn't been important 
enough to me to spend the time on. Since both of you are still 
in the learning process, I strongly advise you to predraft and 
draft. 

In the video, right after she goes thru the different types of 
wheels and how to use and adjust them, Patsy Z shows you how 
to find the length of the fiber you are spinning and then how 
to predraft it. The time reference my VCR gives is 0:26:17. I 
believe that means twenty-six minutes and seventeen seconds 
from the start of the tape. She shows you how to predraft 
before spinning and then how to draft while spinning. Watch 
this part a time or two. If the time reference doesn't help 
you, then just fast forward thru all the wheel stuff and then 
stop it just as soon as you see her take some pink wool and 
start pulling out wispy fibers from one end. Go back to normal 
play and watch it as many times as you need to get this down 
pat. 

Combing fibers takes out all the short stuff and makes it easy 
to remove lumps and bumps in the fiber. Patsy Z demonstrates 
using small hand combs toward the end of the tape, my VCR time 
reference is 1:05:14. There are umpty dozen types of combs, 
from big to small. She likes the small hand combs. I like the 
big ones, where one comb clamps securely to a table top. But 
size doesn't matter - combing is done the same way with all of 
them. The teeth of the two combs are always used at right 
angles to each other and her demonstration of this is very 
good. Again, if the time reference doesn't help, then fast 
forward until you see her using two small hand combs. This 
part is just about two thirds of the way thru the tape. 

i've seen maybe a dozen people in all use hand cards and no 
two of them do it exactly the same way. It seems to be 
something that everyone makes up their own mind about what is 
best and most comfortable to them. Some say never to mesh the 
teeth, or even let the teeth touch and others get the teeth of 
one comb right down into the other comb. Patsy Z does it the 
latter way and I do, too. She demonstrates using hand cards at 
1:17:08. Watch this part of the tape a couple of times, with 
fiber and cards in your hands. Watch closely how little fiber 
she puts on the card, and how light and fluffy the fiber is 
when she is finished with it. She shows you how to make a 
rolag on curved cards and also how to make one in your hands 
if you have flat cards. Again, she predrafts this rolag before 
spinning and then drafts as she spins. This rolag is rolled 
from one wide side of the card to the other wide side. Later 
on, she shows you how to make a rolag by rolling it from one 
short side to the other, and again, she predrafts it. 
This part of the tape is right after the demonstration of the 
hand cards so you can fast forward until you see her using 
hand cards and watch from there. 

In this same part of the tape, she also demonstrates what she 
calls a double draft, but what is more widely known as the 
long draw. This technique is well worth your time in practice 
to learn it because it's a great way to spin a LOT of fiber, 
REALLY fast! And it makes a really soft and lovely knitting 
yarn. 

Deb, Mona, did you get your tension problems solved? PLEASE 
let me know! I've never taught anyone to spin before and since 
you are half a continent away, I can't see what effect my 
words are having or if I'm getting the help you need to you. 
You both are learning to spin and I'm learning to teach 
spinning, so I really need feedback from you so I'll know how 
I'm doing. 

In reviewing that tape, I was stuck with one very important 
thing that she doesn't cover. And that's using the drum 
carder. When I got mine, I figured that you just cranked away 
and shoved fiber into it. Needless to say, that's about as 
wrong as can be. Have been thinking about starting a Drum 
Carder 101 thread. Do either of you have drum carders? 
__________________ 

From Susan--- 
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I don't 
have the book or the video you were refering to, but I do have 
the Joy of Spinning by Marilyn Kluger. She talks about finger 
teasing the locks before you place them on the carders. I have 
begun to do that as well as not put so much on the carders, 
and have noted much improvement, not so many lumps. I will try 
the predrafting and see if it goes even smoother. One thing 
that Mrs. Kluger talks about that I haven't seen here or tried 
is adding some sort of oil to the clean wool some hours before 
you are going to be working with it. Have you heard of this? 
She says to experiment to see what kind of oil works best for 
you. She mentioned olive oil, and even plain old veg. oil. Of 
course you would wash it out after it is in the skein. What is 
your experience with this. Susan 

From Mona---- 
I pretty much have all my tension problems solved, at least 
with this fiber that I am spinning. I took the spring off the 
brake band and replaced it with a rubber band and it seems 
easier to adjust. I don't think I was oiling the wheel quite 
often enough either. My spinning (when I have time for it) is 
really going quite well. I would eventually like to learn how 
to spin cotton, I use quite a bit of it in my crochet work. 
I'll bet it is kind of hard to spin with the fiber being 
fairly short. They raise cotton in southeast Missouri not so 
far south of us and it would be interesting to try to spin 
some of it. You are doing a great job of teaching us Carol, I 
love having you there to get answers from! I am still 
wondering about letting the tension off the brake band when I 
am through spinning for the day. If anyone has any miracle 
cures for getting the mothball stench out of fabric, please 
let me know, it is making me and the pets a little queasy. It 
does seem to help hanging it outside like Marchwind suggested, 
but we have been getting lots of rain and I haven't been able 
to hang stuff out as much as I want. 
Mona


----------



## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

Carol--- 
Susan, we have discussed the oiling, I think on one of the old 
Fiber Arts Chat threads. Some people like to work with the 
lanolin in the fleece and some don't. I'm one who doesn't. 
Most often, I've seen oiling fleece used to control static. My 
personal experience, years of it, is that a spray bottle of 
plain water works just fine to stop static and that's what I 
use. If you do spray fleece with an oil and water mixture, or 
even oil alone, then you end up with oil in your carders, drum 
carder, combs and orifice of your spinning wheel. Also you 
have a fine residue of oil on your bobbins. And that oil 
attracts and holds all sorts of dust and dirt and lint. I 
don't want the mess so I don't oil at all. If I have fly away 
wool due to static electricity, then a short spray of water 
calms it right down. I have the sprayer set for the finest 
possible spray so I don't get the wool wet or even damp. I use 
just enough water to stop the static electricity. 

I don't have the Joy of Spinning so I can't comment on what's 
in it. We need some sort of reference so I said I'd help 
people who wanted to learn to spin if they would get Hands On 
Spinning by Lee Raven. I also highly recommend the video. Mona 
and Deb both got the video so we have something we can all 
_see_ when a problem comes up. 

I wasted a lot of time and fiber when I taught myself to spin. 
And also unknowingly picked up some bad spinning habits that I 
had a devil of a time unlearning later. When I found out about 
the videos available, I bought all of them, a few at a time. 
And my learning to spin well and easily really took off after 
that. Plus, the book and the video are usually a lot less 
costly than paying for private lessons or even for group 
classes. And once a class is over, it's over. But you can keep 
watching the video over and over and over again, as often as 
needed. I still go back and review techniques I haven't used 
in a while before I start spinning. Each video covers many 
things and I love being able to go back and review as needed. 
Both Deb and Mona will go to the place in the tape where Patsy 
Z is using hand cards and instantly see if they are putting 
too much wool on the cards. They can see instantly how much 
wool she puts on, how she cards and makes rolags and they will 
have that part of it down pat in no time. I managed to find 
out how much wool was the right amount all on my own, but it 
took me months and many hours of experimenting to figure it 
all out on my own. If I'd had the video then, I could have 
solved my problem and gone on to work on something else. Whole 
lot less frustration, wasted time and messed up fiber with the 
video! And actually being able to _see_ her spin in different 
ways makes it much easier to do it yourself than using a book 
will. From Susan n' Emily in TN -- 
carol, I agree totally about the oiling of the wool. I leave 
just a little lanolin in my wool, I like the way it feels. I 
will try to pick up a copy of Hands on spinning, I have found 
the web site thejoyofhandspinning quite helpful, it too has 
video clips, though not as long as what you are recommending. 
I will see what I can find. Also pre-drafting is really 
helping out with the lump problem. It is different spinning 
with hand carded rolags as opposed to the machine done 
rolags,I'm not sure what they are called. The rolags look so 
airy that I guess I forgot all about pre-drafting? Thanks 
again, Susan 


From Carol-- 
Susan, this is an educated guess on my part, but if I were 
you, I'd sure release the tension on my wheel when I was done 
spinning for the day. Both my Babe and Louet wheels came with 
instructions to release the tension on the drive band to avoid 
stretching the drive bands out. I don't know of any reason 
that wouldn't be true for your wheel, too. And since you are 
concerned about it, just release the tension and go right on. 
If there should be any problem with doing that, you will find 
out about it sooner or later. Tension on the wheel doesn't 
matter at all when the wheel isn't in use, only when you are 
spinning. 

The commercially prepared fibers come in what's called a 
sliver (SLY-ver). They are very, very compacted compared to 
hand carded fibers and they need to be divided and then 
seriously pre drafted. 

Glad that pre drafting your wool has helped with the lump 
problem!! 
__________________ 
From Susan--- 
I have found HOS on half bay at a very reasonable price, so It should arrive here in a day or two. I also found on Ebay a 
huge lot of weaving yarn at 15 dollars and only 6 min to go in 
the action. Could I pass that up? No of course not!!!!!!!!! 
Ebay is really bad for me!!!!!!!!!!! I hate it when someone 
out bids me at the last min. and there I did it myself. I 
won't fuss next time it happens to me. 
I am not carding my long locks yet, I decided to practice on 
the shorter ones til I get the hang of it. Should I mark the 
skeins with the less than ideal length or will I be able to 
ell just by looking? I classify short as about 2 inches, 
anything smaller that that gets put in the pillow stuffing 
bag. 
A full bobbin is no where near a skein, so do I need to knot 
the yarn together somehow so I don't have loose ends in the 
skein? Also If I am planning to ply do I need to wait to set 
the twist until after I have plyed or can I ply after set? too 
many questions, I know. Susan 


From Amelia â 
Good morning ladys, Well I didnt get to go to the sale barn 
last nite to look for angora rabbits. The sunday paper may 
have something listed in the want adds. 
I was reading here and seen that you wash the fur, fiber, and 
was wondering if you wash all fibers b4 you work with it? I 
plan on Keepin my rabbits up off the ground and make sure the 
pens stay clean. Its a Big pen so they will have plenty of 
room. If I am remembering right, I dont recall my friend sayin 
she washed her rabbit fur. I do know she did keep her rabbit 
pens very clean. I would think keepin them off the ground in a 
pen they would not get dirt or what ever else in the fur and 
the fur would stay purty much clean. Maybe just card it, that 
is what its call when you comb it right?? Well I will go to 
the other livestock sale this weekend and see what it there. 
I do wish I could find somebody where I could see how they 
keep there rabbits. I dont need to bring something home that 
is not so healthy, but you will never know why buying at a 
sale barn. Oh well I will BOLO. for my angora rabbits.


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

From Carol---- 
Susan, I'm so glad that you found HOS - it makes it so much 
easier when we can both have the same reference to work from, 
especially since we can't get together in person. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "less than ideal length" wool. 
Each type of wool has it's uses and the shorter wools are 
*excellent* for spinning woolen yarns, which are soft, fuzzy, 
cuddly and warm. A sweater or shawl made from woolen yarn spun 
from a next-to-the-skin quality wool is something wonderful to 
wear and treasure for the rest of your life. And the same 
things made from wool that isn't next to the skin quality but 
meant to be worn over other clothing is still something warm 
and wonderful and to be treasured. 

There are basically two spinning techniques - woolen and 
worsted. There is a great explanation of these in HOS on pages 
72 - 79. I haven't gone into this yet because we need to get 
very comfortable with spindle or wheel and turning fiber into 
yarn before getting into the more technical stuff, so go ahead 
and read the paqes above but don't worry about that now. 

When learning to spin, your yarn should be plied. Two plies 
give strength needed by the thick and thin yarns that folks 
make in the beginning. HOS talks about setting the twist on 
pages 32 - 34. I always wait to set the twist until I have 
plied the yarn, for several reasons. I want the twist in the 
two singles to settle in each single and also with the two 
together, all at one time. I've never even tried to set the 
twist in individual singles, then ply and set the twist again. 
That's way too much work when it can all be done at the same 
time. 

And a skein is what ever you end up with - there is no set 
amount of yardage you should be trying for. I spin two bobbins 
half full and then ply them together on a third bobbin. My 
skein size is whatever I end up with when the third bobbin is 
full of plied yarn or I run out of singles to ply - which ever 
comes first. Yardage will vary wildly when spinning different 
weights of yarn anyway. You can spin lace weight yarn that is 
about the size of quilting thread, sport weight, worsted 
weight, fingering weight, and you will get very different 
yardage from all of them. So skein yardage really isn't 
important. 

I usually use a grafting join when I've run out of one skein 
while knitting and need to start a new one. Just about any 
good knitting book from the library will show you how to do 
this. So don't worry about attaching skeins together until you 
are knitting or crocheting them. 

I label each skein, securely, with the type of wool, the 
weight of the skein in grams or ounces, the number of wraps 
per inch, the number of yards in the skein and the date. Now I 
do, anyway. I didn't at first, being sure I'd _never_ forget 
any of that info. Then I ended up with dozens of skeins and no 
idea which was what. Now I cut up thin cardboard boxes, like 
cereal boxes for instance, into rectangles about 1 1/2" by 3", 
punch a hole in one end and use scrap yarn to tie the tag on 
the skein. I tie the scrap yarn securely, in a strong knot, 
but I make sure it's loop thru the skein is lloose enough not 
to compress my precious yarn. 

Be sure and read and practice the instructions on page 34 
about how to make a really grand yarn package with your 
skeins. This is so neat! The yarn looks and feels so wonderful 
when stored this way! And just about anyone who sees yarn in 
this form is drawn to reach for the skein and gently squeeze 
it several times. I keep a basket full of these on a table by 
my couch and everyone who comes into my home is sooner or 
later pulled to that basket and the yarn. They just have to 
take them out, one at a time, gently squeezing and feeling the 
texture of the yarn. It's so neat to watch! 

Please, please don't worry about asking questions! If you are 
wondering about something, ask. So far no one has asked a 
question that I didn't have myself when I was first learning. 

Welcome, Amelia! Don't wash angora before spinning it. If you 
do, you will end up with one big felted mass that is 
impossible to do anything with. Rabbits don't have the lanolin 
in their fur that sheep have in the wool so there really is no 
need to wash it. If the cages aren't kept clean, the fur will 
be matted with the dirt and you can't brush or comb it out to 
spin anyway. 

Angora is the fiber I had the most trouble with while learning 
to spin it. It's so fine that it floats on air currents. The 
fibers are straight and slick, with no crimp at all and so 
takes a lot of twist to make yarn. It's way too easy to either 
get too much twist or not enough. One way gives you a kinky 
tangle and the other means the yarn simply whisps apart. So if 
you are just learning to spin, use wool and get good at 
spinning that. Then move into the more exotic fibers. 

I strongly urge you to get hold of some books about how to 
raise rabbits, how to cage them, how to feed and care for them 
and THEN get your angora bunnies. It's just way too easy to 
unknowingly do something wrong and then end up with dead 
rabbits on your hands. That's a real downer, believe me! 

Try your public library first. If they don't already have some 
books on raising angoras, then they can order them for you as 
an inter-library loan. That way, you can learn all about them 
first and not waste money on caging that really isn't what's 
needed. And you can learn too how to spot an unhealthy rabbit. 
Bunnies are rather fragile animals and can and do die without 
you having a clue anything is even wrong. Countryside magazine 
has ads for excellent books on raising angoras if you want to 
buy a book to have on hand for quick reference. But in 
fairness to the bunnies, and to spare your wallet, please do 
learn what you need to know about them _before_ you get them. 
Carol 

From Amelia --- 
Thanks Caroline about not washing the rabbit fur, fiber.. 
Yea I have been reading about raiseing rabbits. Sounds purty 
simple for the most part. I have raised the white ones and the 
ones that look like the wild kind, cant spell it so aint gonna 
try, hehe..I dont think I will have problems with dirty 
rabbits or fur tho. After all some how I manage to keep my 
hens butts clean so no dirty eggs, so Im sure I will have no 
problem with keepin my angoras nice an clean. Didnt have 
problems before with um so I think Im good to go with rabbits. 
Im so much lookin foward to gettin started with spinning. I 
just love tryin my hand at something new. 
One nuther ?. Can and do folks dye angora fiber? I like the 
natural myself I think for the most part, but seen where some 
of you do dye your fibers of different types and was just 
wonderin if its the right thing to do or not for rabbit fiber? 
Have a Goodun...Amelia 

From Susan n' Emily in TN --- 
Carol, I saw the neatest idea the other day. One spinner said 
that she winds her bobbins off onto a ball winder and then she 
can take both ends and ply it back onto itself! I think I 
might borrow one from the craft center and try it. I am 
pushing ahead and carding the fleece, but I am not very happy 
with the results. I have a lot to learn, this is one of those 
patience builders, I know! I may try carding the longer locks 
and see if I can get them smoother. My book hasn't come yet, I 
had to reorder! I can't wait for it to come. 
Amelia, you might want to purchase some wool ready to spin so 
that you can start learning the actual spinning techiques. If 
I had started with the processing of the fleece I may have 
decided it wasn't for me. However I started with the spinning 
and I am hooked! I'll check in later, Susan 



From Marchwind ---- 
Amelia Kay, Please do not think all rabbits are created equal 
in their care, they are NOT! I highly recommend you get and 
read from cover to cover the book Completely Angora by 
Kilfoyle & Samson. Please do this before you get your rabbits. 
Angora rabbits are very different from white rabbits. They are 
prone to parisites and diseases other rabbits are not prone 
to. They do not do will in heat. Yes they are rabbits and yes 
they breed like rabbits but their food requirements are very 
different from other rabbits too! I do not doubt that you can 
take care of angora rabbits but you really need to be an 
informed consumer for both your sake and the sake of the 
rabbits. 

Dying angora is wonderful it takes dye very well. Angora also 
comes in a wide range of natural colors! 

Good luck!


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

From Amelia Kay --- 
Mornin. Yea MarchWind thats what I have done. Most all 
critters need different kind of care. Thank goodness I havent 
had any bad problems with any of my animals, other than ol 
age. Thanks for the helpful tips. Im sure they will come in 
handy. Thats why I havent got the angoras yet. I think it is 
always a good idea to read up on anything you are try your 
hand at. 

From MOgal --- 
Susan, when you ply from a center pull ball, the strand on the 
outside winds off faster for some reason and each round wraps 
it around the strand from the center of the ball. If you try 
to ply onto the wheel from the center pull ball, it can tangle 
on you quickly. It's a real help to hand wind the two ply ball 
so you can control that wrapping tendency more easily, then 
take the ball to your wheel to ply it onto a bobbin. 

This is a good technique if you are making a two-ply yarn for 
a small project. It's hard to keep the consistency of each 
bobbin the same, especially for a beginning spinner. You will 
get more uniform finished yarn if you spin all your singles 
first then randomly select them for plying. Wind off the 
singles onto cores made from bathroom tissue or paper towel 
tubes if you don't own a ton of bobbins for a project. This 
random selection works even better if you are making 3-ply 
yarn. You may end up with short lengths from some of the 
bobbins but better that than having one skein of thick yarn 
and one skein of thin yarn to try to work into the same 
project, especially if you need a specific gauge for knitting. 

From Marchwind 
Deb congratulations on your improvements! Oiling your wheel 
is probably the most improtant thing you can do for your 
wheel. Your wheel should be oiled everytime you spin a new 
bobbin. That is just a good way to remember to do it, when you 
change a bobbin oil your wheel. Oil all the points where there 
is a joint, especially where there is metal and wood. I was 
told by a wheel maker once that mineral oil was the best all 
round oil to use as it doesn't break down. Generally I wipe 
off the old oil and re oil every part that moves and comes in 
contact with another part. Don't forget to oil the bobbin on 
the inside before you put it on the shaft, I also oil the 
shaft. Maybe someone else can tell you better than me how what 
and how to oil. Otherwise feel free to ask. In the HOS I think 
she goes into detail on oiling your wheel. 

The right chair is very important. I am tall with very long 
legs, I have a hard time finding a chair that fits me. I found 
an old kitchen chair at an auction and now it goes with me 
whenever I spin. 

From Susan--- 
MOgal, I hadn't thought about the drawbacks of plying with the center pull ball. I also hadn't heard about spinning all the 
singles first and then plying. That is a great idea. I need to 
save all the tp rolls , They really work good, you can make a 
slit to slip the ends into so that it won,t untwist. I have 
started spinning some comercial wool that I bought last fall. 
It is very smooth and nice. I spin that and am making rolags 
out of my home grown wool, using the long locks, I will spin 
that when I am done with the other. I should have quite a few 
rolags carded by then!! I am working on getting the singles 
consistantly even throughout the bobbin and from bobbin to 
bobbin. It really helps that the slyver is so smooth. I don't 
know what kind of wool it is though, that may have something 
to do with it. I can't wait till my copy of HOS gets here, the 
first one I ordered wasn't in stock after all so I had to 
order it again..... Still too much rain around here, I wish we 
could save some of it for this July when we will really need 
it! The pasture is so soggy! The sheep don't seem to mind it 
though, they just stand out there in the rain and don't seem 
to interested in coming into the shelter. Happy spinning, 

From Mona--- 
Hello Spinning Twin Deb and everbody, 
Deb, it sounds like we are in about the same place in our 
spinning, my treadling is getting a lot better too, isn't it 
nice not to have it flying backwards and all your newly spun 
yarn coming back at you I plied my first singles a 
couple of days ago and it was a challenge learning to let 
myself spin the other way. I found a neat gadget for setting 
the twist in yarn, I had previously bought a hand held steamer 
to use cleaning the grunge out of the bathtubs and stuff and 
decided to try it on the yarn, it seemed to work really well. 
It set the twist without soaking the yarn so much and 
shortened the drying time a lot. As humid as it is here right 
now, anything that helps stuff dry out quicker is welcome. 

From Carol---- 
I really wish you all could see my face as I read your posts 
about your spinning and how well you are coming right along. I 
think my grin is so big it goes all the way around my head! 
I'm not sure but I think the chances are good that we have 
just made some kind of spinning history here. I don't know of 
any other beginner spinning class that's been held the way we 
just did it. When I first told someone that I was going to try 
this, teaching people to use the drop spindle and then move on 
to the wheel, on the internet, using a book for reference and 
typed words, that person asked me if I was crazy! Spinning is 
traditionally taught person to person and hands on. But it's 
getting harder and harder to find spinners, especially 
experienced one's willing to teach others. Classes and 
workshops, when available, are usually very expensive, too. 
The people most likely to be interested in learning to spin, 
homesteader types like us, are also the ones who don't have 
bathtubs full of money to roll around in. It's awfully easy to 
spend a couple of thousand dollars buying a wheel, hand cards, 
drum carder, umbrella swift, combs, ball winders and other 
assorted stuff associated with spinning. When I first looked 
into spinning gear, I was really depressed about how much 
expense was involved. And this didn't count the cost of 
lessons either. So I just dropped it. Then we went to a 
Renewable Energy Fair in Madison, Wisconsin. There I found a 
booth for Mielke's Farm. And they had a drop spindle kit, with 
spindle, fiber, and the book Hands On Spinning. After talking 
to the lady in the booth, who was very patient with all my 
questions and gave me cheerful and encouraging answers to 
them, I bought extra fiber and my hand cards. I never looked 
back from that point on. 

When I managed to spin yarn with the drop spindle, I found 
that I didn't have any way to skein it. I kept going back and 
looking at the niddy noddies (and how expensive they are in 
the catalogs!) and thinking about pioneer women and how they 
managed. That's how I came up with my tied stick niddy. It's 
ugly as can be, but it works and that's what counted most with 
me. 

So I've put an enormous amount of time and thought into trying 
to come up with a way to teach spinning that began with people 
wanting to learn and ended with them confidently using the 
wheel. And that, incidentally, didn't cost a wad of money. 

Everyone who started out in this 101 class is now spinning. 
And there have been others who came along after it started and 
they are spinning, too. Even some lurkers have popped up to 
say they got the book and a spindle and learned to spin. So, 
it looks like this has worked very well and I couldn't be more 
pleased if I tried. 

In our back and forth email, Karen mentioned that spinning is 
very close to being a lost art and so the need to teach others 
so they can teach still others is great. I'm hoping very much 
that everyone who learned to spin here will teach at least two 
other people to spin, asking that those two each teach two 
others. Doing this will not only help keep the art of spinning 
alive and well, but it could well lead to forming your own 
close to home spinning guilds too. Wouldn't I just love to 
have one day or evening a month when I could meet with other 
spinning addicts???? Once we get permanently settled, if we 
ever do, I'm going to have a crack at forming a guild. So 
often, when I read the threads here, I so long for just one 
day a year when all of us on these threads could get together 
in person, to spin and talk and meet each other face to 
face... (Anyone have a place big enough to handle from 10 to 
30 spinners for a couple of days? Have sleeping bag and 
spinning wheel - will travel! And bring food with me.) 

It's heartwarming to see Mogal, Stoneground and Marchwind pop 
up in this thread, so generously sharing their experience and 
knowledge and skills. This sharing is truly the spirit of 
spinning. 

It's tremendously exciting to see the excitement of new 
spinners every new skill gained and how determined you all 
have been to get over the rough spots in learning. When you 
posted with a problem, someone was right there with a 
suggestion and encouragement to keep on going. I roared with 
laughter when I read about Mona reversing her wheel and all 
the newly spun yarn flying back at her. Boy! Do I ever 
remember that same experience! Attention getting, isn't it? 
I've relived my own days of struggling with getting the 
tension right, too. Too tight and the wheel zips the yarn 
right out of my fingers. Too loose and it won't wind on and 
flips out of the hooks. Treadling too fast and way too much 
twist in the yarn. Treadling too slow and there's not enough 
twist to hold the yarn together. Yup, I remember what I 
experienced as a new spinner. I think it's helped you gals 
knowing that all of the rest of us have been there too and 
knowing that we got past those sticky learning spots has 
encouraged you to keep on working at it. And now you're 
spinning yarn! WAY TO GO, GALS!!!!! 
Carol


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## Marchwind (May 10, 2002)

From Marchwind ---- 
Carol I think congratulations go to you as well! You really 
did do a great job with the discriptions. Many times I read 
this or tried to talk about something and it is really 
difficult to discribe things and proceedurred with just words! 
Well done on your teaching skills. 

To tag on to your teaching someone else to spin! I would 
encourage everyone to go out and spin in public! Do it in a 
park, in a coffee house, at a concert, walking, etc. You will 
always get people coming up to talk to you and you will get 
more than your fair share of strange looks. Check with you 
local county fair see if you can demonstrate. Our guild does 
every year and we have connected and taught many people. There 
is also a national go out and spin day when everyone is to go 
and spin in public on a given day! Spin-Off magazine I think 
sponsors or started that and promotes it. Also call the local 
schools and see if they wouldl ike you to come and demonstrate 
there. Teach kids to make a spindle and spin. Offer to go in 
once or twice a week for a month and teach the young ones, 
follow up with a knitting class. Kids learn really fast and 
they are so enthusiastic! 

It has been fun to watch everyones progress! 
__________________ 
From Mogal--- 
Marchwind is exactly right about spinning in public, speaking 
on spinning, fibers and some of the history. When we lived 
north of Kansas City, I had 7 guilds to join or visit within 
easy driving distance. When we moved to central Arkansas in 
'93, I suffered terrible culture shock because my favorite 
activity was no longer easily available to me. There was a 
guild in the town where my in-laws lived but their emphasis 
was weaving. At that time, I didn't own any looms, had no room 
for even one or the interest. There were two guilds in extreme 
NW AR but I couldn't drive up and back easily in one day. 
SO....I trotted out my appropriate period dress(all hand made, 
including the tatted lace on the neckline of my chemise and my 
cap) and volunteered to demonstrate at local state parks' 
living history weekends and took the names of interested 
people. (In addition, I learned to throw a tomahawk, start a 
fire with a flint and steel, and prep a hide for tanning) We-a 
very dear friend and I-finally formed a guild based on those 
names. Other places I demonstrated were my county fair and the 
state fair, local schools and my county's historical society. 
It was a ball especially when you visit a school in mid 
November and a very delightful, earnest little girl asks if 
you are a Pilgrim. Keep a straight face with that one. 

I don't demo much any more because this county is so eaten up 
with Civil War (Missouri voted to secede but a pro-Union 
faction dissolved legislature until the end of the conflict. 
This county seceded from the STATE of Missouri and remained 
Confederate. There is still talk among some of the old 
families about which family's ancestors were loyal to what 
contingent and by golly, it's sometimes said with animosity. I 
have no patience with that.) Female CW reenactors usually sit 
around in their finery and knit or crochet, not spin or weave. 
I also don't care to risk my most interesting equipment to the 
public in open air situations but I do special programs for 
the local library, fourth and fifth grade classes and adult 
groups who are interested. Just be sure of your historical 
facts. One woman at a demonstration sat at a wheel treadling 
like crazy and flipping the rolag in the air to keep it from 
overtwisting. I asked what she was doing and she answered, 
"Demonstrating spinning!" I did speak a little more adamantly 
"You're doing what? I don't think so!" than I intended to 
because she was no more spinning than was my dog back home and 
thereby confusing the visitors. I definitely apologized for 
it.


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