# Health care workers refusing vaccine



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

60% of Ohio nursing home workers refuse vaccine - Ohio Capital Journal


As the coronavirus vaccine dribbles out far more slowly than promised, many of the people who can get it are refusing to do so.




ohiocapitaljournal.com







https://news.yahoo.com/healthcare-workers-refuse-covid-19-130028292.html



They are frontline workers with top-priority access to the COVID-19 vaccine, but they are refusing to take it.

At St. Elizabeth Community Hospital in Tehama County, fewer than half of the 700 hospital workers eligible for the vaccine were willing to take the shot when it was first offered. At Providence Holy Cross Medical Center in Mission Hills, one in five frontline nurses and doctors have declined the shot. Roughly 20% to 40% of L.A. County's frontline workers who were offered the vaccine did the same, according to county public health officials.









More Than Half of FDNY Firefighters Won't Get Vaccinated, Union Poll Suggests


Roughly 55 percent of surveyed FDNY firefighters said they won’t get the coronavirus vaccine, their union president said Sunday.




www.nbcnewyork.com


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Aunt Nancy will end up making them take it.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

mreynolds said:


> Aunt Nancy will end up making them take it.


Yep, there will be pressure and threats.


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## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

Mom 75 and Dad 77 are on the same page! They divorced thirty years ago. They say nope... At least they get along better now!!!


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

There is a lot on the shelf that people are refusing to take.
I saw, heard, or read a hospital worker intentionally let some spoil.


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## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

It can go both ways though. If they get fired for refusing the shot, who will take their place?
Here in rural SW Wisconsin they don’t have enough staff at nursing homes as it is. My next door neighbor is “retired”, and the nursing homes around here BEG her to come put hours in. When she says yes, they dump as many hours on her as they can. 
Just need enough people to stick to their guns and say “No”. Then the pressure is put back on the other side.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

67drake said:


> It can go both ways though. If they get fired for refusing the shot, who will take their place?
> Here in rural SW Wisconsin they don’t have enough staff at nursing homes as it is. My next door neighbor is “retired”, and the nursing homes around here BEG her to come put hours in. When she says yes, they dump as many hours on her as they can.
> Just need enough people to stick to their guns and say “No”. Then the pressure is put back on the other side.


She should up her rate


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

mreynolds said:


> Aunt Nancy will end up making them take it.


Do you mean?
Nancy whose last name starts with a P ? 
Or do you mean literally someone's Aunt Nancy ? I have a feeling a family member of mine will be pressuring the elders in my family to take it and I hope they don't cave to the hysteria.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

wdcutrsdaughter said:


> Do you mean?
> Nancy whose last name starts with a P ?
> Or do you mean literally someone's Aunt Nancy ? I have a feeling a family member of mine will be pressuring the elders in my family to take it and I hope they don't cave to the hysteria.


Yes, and yes lol.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

po boy said:


> There is a lot on the shelf that people are refusing to take.
> I saw, heard, or read a hospital worker intentionally let some spoil.



Yep, a pharmacist in a hospital. The vaccine spoils if setting out 12 hours. He is in deep trouble but I wonder why it was in the refrigerator and not missed for 12 hours. The hype in the news would make you think people are clamoring for the stuff. This guy spoiled 500 doses and it wouldn't be hard to find enough qualified people in a hospital to vaccinate 500 people in less than an hour. I suspect it is state and local political bickering about who gets it and when that is delaying the process.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

poppy said:


> Yep, a pharmacist in a hospital. The vaccine spoils if setting out 12 hours. He is in deep trouble but I wonder why it was in the refrigerator and not missed for 12 hours. The hype in the news would make you think people are clamoring for the stuff. This guy spoiled 500 doses and it wouldn't be hard to find enough qualified people in a hospital to vaccinate 500 people in less than an hour. I suspect it is state and local political bickering about who gets it and when that is delaying the process.


He left it out overnight, knowing that the pharmacy was closed during those hours. I suspect there has been a lot more terrible stuff he's done, or not done, over the years.

I personally wouldn't take it myself right now, because we just don't know how well it works, or for how long, or about long-term side effects. I wouldn't try to talk anyone else out of taking it, however.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

He left the vaccine out 2 nights on purpose so it would be ruined. He has since been fired and reportedly arrested.

Tens of thousands of people in vaccine trials started less than 6 months ago does not inspire a lot of confidence. The CDC is not urging pregnant women to get the vaccine because it has not been tested on pregnant women and unborn children. I am not surprised health care workers are refusing the vaccine.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Healthcare workers are usually required to have had immunization/proof of immunity for MMR & T...The refusal of the vaccine by these people and the sympathetic opinions expressed here shows the failure of our educational system to teach critical thinking.

While nobody is more critical & distrusting of the govt than me, all the evidence shows this vaccine is safe and effective. No reason not to take it. Frontline care workers who don't take it run the risk of spreading the bug to the innocent, vulnerable people under their care. Pretty stupid. Very selfish.

When you're in the hosp recovering from that gall stone attack, do you want your nurse with active, untreated TB coughing on you? Why should CoV be different?


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

doc- said:


> Healthcare workers are usually required to have had immunization/proof of immunity for MMR & T...The refusal of the vaccine by these people and the sympathetic opinions expressed here shows the failure of our educational system to teach critical thinking.
> 
> While nobody is more critical & distrusting of the govt than me, all the evidence shows this vaccine is safe and effective. No reason not to take it. Frontline care workers who don't take it run the risk of spreading the bug to the innocent, vulnerable people under their care. Pretty stupid. Very selfish.
> 
> When you're in the hosp recovering from that gall stone attack, do you want your nurse with active, untreated TB coughing on you? Why should CoV be different?


If there are front line health care workers that haven't been exposed, infected, and naturally self immunized, then either they spend a lot of time behind the scenes, or this thing isn't very contagious.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

doc- said:


> While nobody is more critical & distrusting of the govt than me, *all the evidence* shows this vaccine is safe and effective. No reason not to take it. Frontline care workers who don't take it run the risk of spreading the bug to the innocent, vulnerable people under their care. Pretty stupid. Very selfish.


bold printed in the quote is mine .......To my way of thinking, the issue for some people is that 'all the evidence' is not sufficient for a comfort level. This was distributed under a EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) which shortens the requirement for testing and long term proof of safety and is not a guarantee that once the emergency is gone the FDA will give full approval.

I am haunted by the Thalidomide tragedy
The Story of Thalidomide in the U.S., Told Through Documents


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## PaLady (Oct 24, 2006)

doc- said:


> Healthcare workers are usually required to have had immunization/proof of immunity for MMR & T...The refusal of the vaccine by these people and the sympathetic opinions expressed here shows the failure of our educational system to teach critical thinking.
> 
> While nobody is more critical & distrusting of the govt than me, all the evidence shows this vaccine is safe and effective. No reason not to take it. Frontline care workers who don't take it run the risk of spreading the bug to the innocent, vulnerable people under their care. Pretty stupid. Very selfish.
> 
> ...


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## bamabear44 (Jan 30, 2018)

My Granddaughter is pregnant with twins, about 4 months, she is the administrator of a local nursing home, and she said she would not take it, she has already had the virus, not very sick , but her daughter 4 was really sick with it, I don't' blame her for not taking it... not enough testing on it.


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## bamabear44 (Jan 30, 2018)

I don't think I will, I'm 67


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

I'm going to wait. It needs to be out in the wild for me to feel confident receiving the vaccination.

Some years ago I was on a newly released RX. I couldn't make myself trust it and quit taking it. As a few more months went by more and more serious side effects began to surface. And this was a drug that went through the more intensive testing. 

Even though they were working on a vaccine for Coronavirus' for years, it does not mean it had reached the level of testing to ascertain it's safety.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I posted this to a different forum on this same subject: 
I have spoken with a number of medical professionals. Several are not going to quickly get the vaccine and the reasons they give vary. I'm not saying I personally agree with or disagree with them, but I do think their concerns should be evaluated. Your mileage may vary.
I've heard (these are not my personal statements):

1. In October Dr. F said it would reduce symptoms but not stop the spread link If it's not creating immunity, it's not a vaccine it's a prophylactic treatment of sorts. 

2. I'm not sure this round of vaccines is safe over the long term. I'm going to wait 6-12 months or longer to see.

3. I am pregnant and it's not been tested on pregnant women enough to give me confidence (conception to post delivery = 9+ months). link

_For me personally, this made me think of the Thalidomide tragedy as I posted above._

4. I have multiple allergies and I'm not taking the chance.

5. These vaccines require special handling from manufacturer all the way through to injection, twice. I don't want to be vaccinated with something and find out later one step in the unique and specific chain of custody requirements had failed and it was not effective.

6. If it creates a true immunity (which may not be true) - for how long? When will I need a re-do - 3 months? 6 months? Not enough information for me.

7. I had Covid already, recently - I should have the antibodies. If they tested me first for antibodies, I would consider it but why would I take a vaccine for something I've had recently and should have a natural, if transitory, 'herd immunity.'

8. The manufacturers have been given a free pass as to negative impacts. If they're not going to be held accountable for the safety and efficacy then I don't trust them.

There are others, but this is what I've heard. 
Personally, I believe that if you want the vaccine, you should be able to get it.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

If you've had CoV, you don't need the vaccine, and being in short supply, it shouldn't even be offered to you. If you are pregnant, you shouldn't take it and it shouldn't be offered to you.-- no testing was done in pregnant women.

If a patient, I'd rather be cared for by an immune nurse in short supply than by an actively infected nurses in large supply....Going to the hosp shouldn't increase your risk of getting a second disease..

Logic seems to have been abandoned by you guys in favor of emotional reactions.

Once again-- NO SHORTCUTS were taken in TESTING...Only shortcuts were in the administrative approval process.

For those who are not healthcare workers, as long as ~half of everybody takes the vaccine, you can probably skate with impunity. Herd immunity will have been established so your chances of coming in contact with an active case will be minimal.

Refusing to take the vaccine "because there's no proof it gives lasting immunity" is like refusing to wear a flack jacket in combat "because I can still get shot in the head."

There's a difference between finding good reasons and finding excuses.


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## wdcutrsdaughter (Dec 9, 2012)

doc- said:


> Once again-- NO SHORTCUTS were taken in TESTING...Only shortcuts were in the administrative approval process.


Cool you were there? Got to be a part of that testing? You say it with such certainty. Why so hysterical about people wanting to make a decision for themselves? 

🤷‍♀️


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

doc- said:


> Logic seems to have been abandoned by you guys in favor of emotional reactions.


I think they get that attitude from watching Dr. Oz. But I still find it odd that they are so quick to discount medical advice. They would never dream of questioning opinions of engineers, or even their plumber, in the same way they question medical professionals.

My next door neighbors (an 80ish mother and a late-50ish daughter) haven't seen a physician in the 11 years I've known them, although they both desperately need medical evaluation. They watch Dr. Oz every morning and have offered some insight into what they have learned. These 3 things pretty well sum it up.

1. Medical doctors don't understand diseases or how to treat them.
2. Prescription medicines do more harm than good, so patients should refuse to take them.
3. If you eat the right things and take supplements you won't need to see a physician or take the medications he prescribes.

Of course eating right and taking supplements are good things, but are no substitute for seeing an physician and following his advice.

Somehow a lot of people have gotten the idea that reading a few articles on the Internet is a substitute, and perhaps even an improvement, over their doctors' knowledge. Still, my experience has been that physicians don't mind if their patients do their own research. On the contrary, they seem to like their patients taking an interest in their treatment plans.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

What channel is Dr. OZ on?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

po boy said:


> What channel is Dr. OZ on?


I bet it on the Oprah network


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

doc- said:


> If a patient, I'd rather be cared for by an immune nurse in short supply than by an actively infected nurses in large supply....Going to the hosp shouldn't increase your risk of getting a second disease..


I'm not being argumentative, but everything I've read/heard implies that this doesn't create immunity, it only reduces the severity of the symptoms in the person who has had the vaccine. Is your nurse really granted immunity by taking the vaccine?

Again, serious question, not being argumentative.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

po boy said:


> What channel is Dr. OZ on?


In Las Vegas it's on Fox, weekday mornings at 11am, channel 5.1.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> I think they get that attitude from watching Dr. Oz. But I still find it odd that they are so quick to discount medical advice. They would never dream of questioning opinions of engineers, or even their plumber, in the same way they question medical professionals.
> 
> My next door neighbors (an 80ish mother and a late-50ish daughter) haven't seen a physician in the 11 years I've known them, although they both desperately need medical evaluation. They watch Dr. Oz every morning and have offered some insight into what they have learned. These 3 things pretty well sum it up.
> 
> ...


I've never watched Dr Oz, kinda put him in there with oprah. 

As to listening to my doctor of course I do but I also ask questions, to which I want answers. If he/she can't give me reasonable answers I'll find one who can. 

Our area may be losing the only paramedic within 65 miles due to him being unable to have the vaccine. His doctor told him he can't take the vax at this time do to his having multiple food and medical allergies, his doc said there is just not enough info on it. 

Am I taking the vax, doubtful at this time, I've had covid. But the hysteria may from the top may put me in a position of either leaving my present job or taking the damn vax. I'm grateful that I am in the last group to be able to take it.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Mish said:


> I'm not being argumentative, but everything I've read/heard implies that this doesn't create immunity, it only reduces the severity of the symptoms in the person who has had the vaccine. Is your nurse really granted immunity by taking the vaccine?
> 
> Again, serious question, not being argumentative.


Serious answer: Both the Pfizer and Maderna vaccines are of the mRNA type, which instruct your body to make antibodies designed to prevent COVID-19 infections. So yes, the vaccines create immunity to COVID-19.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> Serious answer: Both the Pfizer and Maderna vaccines are of the mRNA type, which instruct your body to make antibodies designed to prevent COVID-19 infections. So yes, the vaccines create immunity to COVID-19.


For how long and to what degree?


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

no really said:


> For how long and to what degree?


The degree is known -- 90-95%. Duration is something we'll have to wait and see. We've seen recovered COVID patients have immunity for up to 7 months, but it may be longer. Time will tell how long vaccinated patients will be protected.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Nevada said:


> The degree is known -- 90-95%. Duration is something we'll have to wait and see. We've seen recovered COVID patients have immunity for up to 7 months, but it may be longer. Time will tell how long vaccinated patients will be protected.


How do they extrapolate the 90 to 95% with such a short duration of testing. As to time will tell how long the vax will protect is why many are questioning taking it. Sounds to much like the test subjects are the public, is it any wonder that many in the medical profession are turning it down?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Nevada said:


> The degree is known -- 90-95%. Duration is something we'll have to wait and see. We've seen recovered COVID patients have immunity for up to 7 months, but it may be longer. Time will tell how long vaccinated patients will be protected.



That only showed antibodies last at least that long. It is normal for antibodies to decline over time but T-Cell immunity is what is long term. Often it lasts for life. Most of us old folks who had mumps as kids no longer have antibodies for it in our blood but we are still immune due to T-Cell immunity. T-Cells carry a memory of previous infections and constantly float around in our blood. If they recognize pathogen they ramp up the immune system to destroy it.


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## po boy (Jul 12, 2010)

Nevada said:


> In Las Vegas it's on Fox, weekday mornings at 11am, channel 5.1.


Thanks, now I know how to avoid watching.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

no really said:


> How do they extrapolate the 90 to 95% with such a short duration of testing. As to time will tell how long the vax will protect is why many are questioning taking it. Sounds to much like the test subjects are the public, is it any wonder that many in the medical profession are turning it down?



Good point. I think their claim of 90-95% does not mean you can't catch the virus or give it to others, just that you have a 90-95% chance of not getting a serious case or dying with the virus. Ironically the stats for the virus itself are as good or better if you look at the death rate.


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## sharkerbaby (Jan 15, 2016)

Nevada said:


> Serious answer: Both the Pfizer and Maderna vaccines are of the mRNA type, which instruct your body to make antibodies designed to prevent COVID-19 infections. So yes, the vaccines create immunity to COVID-19.


Actually to be more precise, mRNA vaccines do NOT instruct your body to MAKE antibodies, they instruct your body HOW to make antibodies so that when your body discovers the virus floating around, it can begin to fight it rather than spend time figuring out how to attack it. So in effect, you have been infected; that is why you hear so many saying the symptoms will be mild and you may still be able to transmit it. So NO, they do not create immunity to COVID-19, they create a map on how to respond to it.


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## mnn2501 (Apr 2, 2008)

I never Beta test new software/hardware, I'm not going to Beta test a vaccine.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Well thankfully many do beta test for the good of others.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

I am repeating. They DID shortcut the vaccine development process. Eight months, give or take?

sigh

not my chart, but mostly correct


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## robin416 (Dec 29, 2019)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am repeating. They DID shortcut the vaccine development process. Eight months, give or take?
> 
> sigh
> 
> View attachment 92973


Really strange, Alice. Your graph did not show up until I clicked to reply directly to you. Another forum glitch I presume.

Anyway, what I was going to say is that they have been working on a vaccine for years for Coronavirus'. What they did do is rush it into production for release before doing the long term testing they would do before releasing any other drug.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Dr. Yager said that thanks to advances in genomic sequencing, researchers successfully uncovered the viral sequence of SARS-CoV-2 in January 2020 — roughly 10 days after the first reported pneumonia cases in Wuhan, China. The ability to fast-track research and clinical trials was a direct result of this worldwide cooperation. 

Under normal circumstances, making a vaccine can take up to 10–15 years. This is because of the complexity of vaccine development. 









COVID-19 vaccine: How was it developed so fast?


With vaccine approvals underway, MNT spoke with medical experts about how COVID-19 vaccines were designed so quickly without compromising safety.




www.medicalnewstoday.com


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> I think they get that attitude from watching Dr. Oz. But I still find it odd that they are so quick to discount medical advice. They would never dream of questioning opinions of engineers, or even their plumber, in the same way they question medical professionals.
> 
> My next door neighbors (an 80ish mother and a late-50ish daughter) haven't seen a physician in the 11 years I've known them, although they both desperately need medical evaluation. They watch Dr. Oz every morning and have offered some insight into what they have learned. These 3 things pretty well sum it up.
> 
> ...


Excellent, insightful observation.

If some non-expert tells them there are 800 billion schmigillion stars in the sky, they believe it...But they see a sign "Wet Paint" and they gotta touch it.

Knowing a little bit about such things, I've always said that if you here it on Dr Oz, you'll get rich betting it's a lie.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Mish said:


> I'm not being argumentative, but everything I've read/heard implies that this doesn't create immunity, ...


Then you haven't read enough.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> Serious answer: Both the Pfizer and Maderna vaccines are of the mRNA type, which instruct your body to make antibodies designed to prevent COVID-19 infections. So yes, the vaccines create immunity to COVID-19.


Not true.

This vaccine takes mRNA as found in the virus, allows it to enter the protein making machinery of the host cell, just like the virus itself would do. The host then makes the proteins coded by the vial RNA and the host mounts an immune response to those proteins-- just like it would do if infected with the actual bug....

The difference between the vac and natural infection is that the vac primes the immune response so that the vaccinated host reacts to a new exposure the real bug with an anamnestic response-- an overwhelming response designed to wipe out the invaders quickly before they can enter host cells.

The duration o immunity is unknown simply because it hasn't been around long enough to follow for a long period. Trivial answer. Theoretically, no reason to think it won't give permanent immunity TOTHIS STRAIN.... It's not known how quickly this bug can mutate to change its antigenicity. we've already seen a mutation that changes its infectivity.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> I am repeating. They DID shortcut the vaccine development process. Eight months, give or take?
> 
> sigh
> 
> ...


As I posted somewhere here before, they avoided initial animal studies by using new lab research methods. This may in fact be a real breakthru allowing ll future studies to avoid the very time consuming and expensive animal testing.Clinical studies in humans were NOTshortened.---except for Phase I-- usually in Phaes I one pt at atime is gieven the drug, then they wait a few ewks for untowards reactions to show up before callingit safe for thenext guy. Here they did a few dozents simultaneously, saving a few months.

Yiur posted chart is disengenuous. It shows Phase II & III to take several years each. In fact, the testing is only over a course of several months, but the application prcess takes yrs.


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## Grafton County Couple (Sep 20, 2018)

I'm 69 and do not plan to get vaccinated. First one to call 'dibs' can have it.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

My vaccine trial is year one of THREE.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Not commenting either way on the op but I do find it ironic that people that once wanted everything regulated to the max "for our benefit" do not care on this. 

It's also ironic that people who never wanted regulations at all are suddenly wondering what happened to it on this.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

A good vet is way better than a doctor. A lot of the problems that people have that keep doctors in business could be solved if they just told their patients that they are over finished.


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## 67drake (May 6, 2020)

HDRider said:


> She should up her rate


That’s what my wife told her.


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## Mish (Oct 15, 2015)

doc- said:


> Then you haven't read enough.


I was hoping for a serious answer from someone who has been in the medical field, not a "You're dumb, read more" non-response. 

That kind of obfuscation is why there is so much confusion and unwillingness to go along with the program that you seem to want people to shut up and go along with.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Mish said:


> I was hoping for a serious answer from someone who has been in the medical field, not a "You're dumb, read more" non-response.
> 
> That kind of obfuscation is why there is so much confusion and unwillingness to go along with the program that you seem to want people to shut up and go along with.


If you've been following these threads, I've addressed that concern repeatedly. One more time:
CoV vaccine DOES elicit an antibody response, ie- produces immunity.
COVID-19 vaccine BNT162b1 elicits human antibody and T H 1 T cell responses - PubMed (nih.gov)

Sorry if you thought my other response was rude. I was merely stating an obvious conclusion.."No evidence was found..." usually means they didn't look hard enough , not that there is no evidence to be found.


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## MoonRiver (Sep 2, 2007)

Mish said:


> I was hoping for a serious answer from someone who has been in the medical field, not a "You're dumb, read more" non-response.
> 
> That kind of obfuscation is why there is so much confusion and unwillingness to go along with the program that you seem to want people to shut up and go along with.


Mish, Vaccinations prevent you from getting the disease, not the virus.

What that means is you can still become infected with the Sars-cov2 virus, but if you have gotten the vaccine you will already have the antibodies to fight it off.

That's why there is the advice to still social distance and still wear a mask. Even after getting the vaccine, you could get infected with the virus and become contagious before the antibodies have had time to fight off the virus. it would likely be only for a day or 2 that you might be contagious, but still, if everyone who gets the vaccine runs around without taking precautions, they can continue to spread the virus to others.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

MoonRiver said:


> Mish, Vaccinations prevent you from getting the disease, not the virus.
> 
> What that means is you can still become infected with the Sars-cov2 virus, but if you have gotten the vaccine you will already have the antibodies to fight it off.
> 
> That's why there is the advice to still social distance and still wear a mask. Even after getting the vaccine, you could get infected with the virus and become contagious before the antibodies have had time to fight off the virus. it would likely be only for a day or 2 that you might be contagious, but still, if everyone who gets the vaccine runs around without taking precautions, they can continue to spread the virus to others.


Let's sharpen your point a little--

The vaccine gets your immune system rolling, but it takes a little time to build up to full strength. The testing and now real world experience shows that someone who gets the shot can still get sick with CoV if infected in the next several weeks..and you need that booster shot after several weeks. .. I don't think it's known yet whether or not someone infected in that interim period is themselves infectious or not. 

It seems reasonable to think that if the shot still allowed your viral load to climb high enough to make you sick, then maybe it's also high enough to shed viruses to others...or maybe not. Seems prudent to think the guy is still infectious...

Owning a bullet proof vest does no good unless you put it on, and the vac isn't effective completely for several weeks after receiving it.


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## TxHorseMom (Feb 21, 2011)

I’m a healthcare worker and I did get the vaccine last week. The only side effect I’ve noticed is a sore arm. 

It is my understanding that a BIG part of the “shortcut” to manufacturing the vaccine has been the time and red tape it takes for funding vaccine. The government(s) gave funding and cut a lot of that time out. It can take years for that stuff.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The actual studies are supposed to take longer than that. I am in a vaccine research group. Three years.

You can NOT test LONG TERM results in a few months. You cannot reasonably guess if the response is going to last if you don’t test over a long period of time.

They are telling people who take the injections that they will still have to mask and distance. While that is reasonable until the response kicks in (if it does), but it indicates there is no confidence in the long term.


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## TxHorseMom (Feb 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The actual studies are supposed to take longer than that. I am in a vaccine research group. Three years.
> 
> You can NOT test LONG TERM results in a few months. You cannot reasonably guess if the response is going to last if you don’t test over a long period of time.
> 
> They are telling people who take the injections that they will still have to mask and distance. While that is reasonable until the response kicks in (if it does), but it indicates there is no confidence in the long term.


No, it indicates that they DONT KNOW. That does not indicate confidence one way or the other. They did not study the polio vaccine for years after it was discovered. 

I’m just tired of those who don’t want the vaccine trying to scare others with “Healthcare workers are refusing to take the vaccine!!!” While I’m sure that there are some who are refusing it, I personally, as a healthcare worker (frontline, I care for (some) patients with Covid) know of more who are taking it. 

If you don’t want it, don’t take it. It’s as simple as that.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

TxHorseMom said:


> I’m just tired of those who don’t want the vaccine trying to scare others with “Healthcare workers are refusing to take the vaccine!!!”
> 
> If you don’t want it, don’t take it. It’s as simple as that.


Thank you.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Perhaps those headlines are being misinterpreted. It is information. If a reader thinks it is a scare tactic, that is the reader’s interpretation.

If you don’t like headlines, don’t read them. Freedom!


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Just information that crossed my screen.

“The trials leading to approval were also conducted quickly, but no steps in the process were skipped, Weissman says. “Usually you do a phase 1, wait a year, evaluate the results, talk to the FDA, then move on to a phase 2 and then a phase 3,” he says. “Here the phases were done one right after the other.””

The trials leading to approval were also conducted quickly, but no steps in the process were skipped, Weissman says. “Usually you do a phase 1, wait a year, evaluate the results, talk to the FDA, then move on to a phase 2 and then a phase 3,” he says. “Here the phases were done one right after the other.”


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Perhaps those headlines are being misinterpreted. It is information. If a reader thinks it is a scare tactic, that is the reader’s interpretation.
> 
> If you don’t like headlines, don’t read them. Freedom!


You're not just questioning the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines, you're crusading against them. Why?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Crusading? I am talking about my observations and decisions and how I made them.

Your interpretation of that as crusading is your thought. Not mine.


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## mzgarden (Mar 16, 2012)

I think people here can be on opposite sides of a point and respect the other's right to have a differing position.

I for one appreciate all the posts from both sides. I appreciate especially having the links.
I see someone's perspective and follow the link and make up my own mind.

There is no reason all perspectives can not be shared -with passion and strength of position. I don't want to be 'protected' from an alternate viewpoint. I'm a grown up, I can review perspectives and choose my own way.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

^^^^^. Well said


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Crusading? I am talking about my observations and decisions and how I made them.
> 
> Your interpretation of that as crusading is your thought. Not mine.


Where do we sign up Queen Alice the lioness hearted?


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

mzgarden said:


> I think people here can be on opposite sides of a point and respect the other's right to have a differing position.
> 
> I for one appreciate all the posts from both sides. I appreciate especially having the links.
> I see someone's perspective and follow the link and make up my own mind.
> ...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nevada said:


> I think they get that attitude from watching Dr. Oz. But I still find it odd that they are so quick to discount medical advice. They would never dream of questioning opinions of engineers, or even their plumber, in the same way they question medical professionals.
> 
> My next door neighbors (an 80ish mother and a late-50ish daughter) haven't seen a physician in the 11 years I've known them, although they both desperately need medical evaluation. They watch Dr. Oz every morning and have offered some insight into what they have learned. These 3 things pretty well sum it up.
> 
> ...


I don't think I've encountered nearly as many google MD's as I have since the advent of Covid. 

It doesn't matter if one's doctor has advised that masking is dangerous, a google MD is always available to to tell them to suck it up and risk their own health for the greater good. 

It doesn't matter if one can't even get the vaccination at this point and would like to discuss their specific questions with their doctor at the proper time, an internet MD will be there to tell call them an anti vaxxer or tell them to the must agree to take it NOW. 

It doesn't matter if our loved ones are locked away from us, there's someone with a brand new google degree who tells us how to think, what to think and why to think it and above all else, how informed they are on the subject. 

The same google experts are quick to report people to the 'proper authorities' even when they haven't broken the law and cheer wildly when a city bus driver beats up an unmasked woman or unmasked police take down a masked teenager at an outdoor hockey rink. 

I don't feel Dr Oz is any different than those expressing moral outrage at those around them. They've established themselves as some kind of authority, deemed themselves to have more knowledge or information that other mortals and pound their pulpit whenever they get the chance.


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## Tyler520 (Aug 12, 2011)

doc- said:


> Healthcare workers are usually required to have had immunization/proof of immunity for MMR & T...The refusal of the vaccine by these people and the sympathetic opinions expressed here shows the failure of our educational system to teach critical thinking.
> 
> While nobody is more critical & distrusting of the govt than me, all the evidence shows this vaccine is safe and effective. No reason not to take it. Frontline care workers who don't take it run the risk of spreading the bug to the innocent, vulnerable people under their care. Pretty stupid. Very selfish.
> 
> When you're in the hosp recovering from that gall stone attack, do you want your nurse with active, untreated TB coughing on you? Why should CoV be different?


I've encountered several camps of people who won't take it, but the majority, per a poll a few months ago that I cannot recall the source of, is surprising (well,maybe not really):

Only 1 in 3 are so called anti vaxxers; the majority are rabid "Orange Man Bad" automatons - some of which are doing it out off spite, and some who just don't want to go back to work (e.g. teachers)


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Tyler520 said:


> I've encountered several camps of people who won't take it, but the majority, per a poll a few months ago that I cannot recall the source of, is surprising (well,maybe not really):
> 
> Only 1 in 3 are so called anti vaxxers; the majority are rabid "Orange Man Bad" automatons - some of which are doing it out off spite, and some who just don't want to go back to work (e.g. teachers)


Color me skeptical about that.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Jan 6, 2021

I don't fit any of those categories, yet I do not want the covid vaccine.


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## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Nevada said:


> Color me skeptical about that.


What color, yellow?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Sound familiar?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

doc- said:


> Healthcare workers are usually required to have had immunization/proof of immunity for MMR & T...The refusal of the vaccine by these people and the sympathetic opinions expressed here shows the failure of our educational system to teach critical thinking.
> 
> While nobody is more critical & distrusting of the govt than me, all the evidence shows this vaccine is safe and effective. No reason not to take it. Frontline care workers who don't take it run the risk of spreading the bug to the innocent, vulnerable people under their care. Pretty stupid. Very selfish.
> 
> When you're in the hosp recovering from that gall stone attack, do you want your nurse with active, untreated TB coughing on you? Why should CoV be different?


There is a known cure for TB. There is no cure, or proven immunization for Covid. At best they think it might soften the symptoms. It will not prevent you from getting Covid, and it won't keep you from spreading it.

My wife is front line provider, she sees fifteen to twenty patients a day. She has declined the shot. The only way to prevent the spread of any virus is by proper procedure. Washing hands, gloves, masks, and face shields.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

mnn2501 said:


> I never Beta test new software/hardware, I'm not going to Beta test a vaccine.


I actually tried to get into a clinical trial, but never heard back. That, I'm willing to do, but I'm not going to get this vaccine until we know more.


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## thesedays (Feb 25, 2011)

Steven Brandenburg, the pharmacist arrested for leaving the vaccine out of the refrigerator, is in the midst of a divorce and has, among other things, brought a gun to work twice (a big no-no in a hospital) and has been filling storage units with food and other disaster supplies. I realize this means he has a lot of common with a lot of people on this website, but it has no place in health care.

One of my Facebook friends says that he was in her class in pharmacy school, but she does not remember him.









Wisconsin pharmacist who health care center said 'intentionally' removed 57 coronavirus vaccine vials is a conspiracy theorist, according to new court documents


According to court documents, the pharmacist also thought the world was "crashing down" and spent the last weeks stockpiling food and guns.




www.businessinsider.com


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

muleskinner2 said:


> There is a known cure for TB. *There is no *cure, or *proven immunization for Covid.* At best they think it might soften the symptoms. It will not prevent you from getting Covid, and it won't keep you from spreading it.
> 
> My wife is front line provider, she sees fifteen to twenty patients a day. She has declined the shot. The only way to prevent the spread of any virus is by proper procedure. Washing hands, gloves, masks, and face shields.


High lighted sentence--Simply wrong. It's being given now.

Your wife (and you) needs a refresher course in logic, not to mention how to evaluate research data.

Healthcare workers have excellent training in the use of and access to PPE, yet their rate of CoV infection is *10x* higher than the general public....So much for the "Washing hands, gloves, and face mask" wishful thinking.

I have no problem with individuals in the general public refusing this vaccine, regardless of their reasons, logical or not, but when elected Emperor, I'd require it of healthcare workers-- just like proof of immunity to measles, or a negative TB test is now. This is not a unique situation without precedent.


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## rambler (Jan 20, 2004)

Nevada said:


> I think they get that attitude from watching Dr. Oz. But I still find it odd that they are so quick to discount medical advice. They would never dream of questioning opinions of engineers, or even their plumber, in the same way they question medical professionals.
> 
> My next door neighbors (an 80ish mother and a late-50ish daughter) haven't seen a physician in the 11 years I've known them, although they both desperately need medical evaluation. They watch Dr. Oz every morning and have offered some insight into what they have learned. These 3 things pretty well sum it up.
> 
> ...


I do not like Dr Oz. He appears to be a quack that sells things, not advises independently about things.

I question engineers all the time. In farming, we own a welder, a torch, metal working equipment to redesign the equipment all the time, to make it work better then those engineers did.

plumber, I haven’t hired a plumber in a long time. I did question the furnace repair man, he spent 3 hours in my basement trying to get the oil burner to fire reliably. A good guy, I felt bad for him. He left for more parts (third time...) so I looked over his work. When he came back I said well, I notice the new spark leads you put on are bent differently on the back end, they seem pretty close to me, could also stop spark on the back side rather than the front where they are supposed to. He looked at it, bent both of them a 1/8 inch out, and the furnace has run for 5 years since.

had similar stuff when the stove repairman came out decades ago, but I won’t bore you.

if you arent questioning these folk, it explains a lot about the poorer and poorer service we get from service technicians.

Unfortunately this virus deal got politicized. Dr. F is clearly of a different stripe that the rest of the administration. He is mostly a pencil pusher, not so much an active doctor. Still, he likely has a good understanding of medicine and doctoring and all. However, he had some bad ideas in the past on the previous worldwide virus attack, and again this time around, his early statements were contradictions the statements he made the week before. As well, we needed a national response that included the realities of caring for young, old, sick, caring for our food supply, our fuel supply, and yes even our economy. All those things need to be considered for a global pandemic. Dr F took a very narrow, clinical view as time went on, where we all should isolate completely and wear goggles and shut down the entire country. He should have been a part of the response, not the whole response to the pandemic. That the media and other political motivators took his words and went off the deep end with just that one portion of advise is a shame.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Doc, 
I sent you a message in the Conversation section of this forum.
Alice


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

rambler said:


> I do not like Dr Oz. He appears to be a quack that sells things, not advises independently about things.


He's no quack. He's a cardiac surgeon in good standing. That means he knows better.

He sends a populist message to keep his ratings high. That's why he was saying there was a magic, miracle cure for obesity when no such remedy exists. Like I said, he knows better.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

TxHorseMom said:


> I’m just tired of those who don’t want the vaccine trying to scare others with “Healthcare workers are refusing to take the vaccine!!!” While I’m sure that there are some who are refusing it, I personally, as a healthcare worker (frontline, I care for (some) patients with Covid) know of more who are taking it.
> 
> If you don’t want it, don’t take it. It’s as simple as that.


Same here. I took it.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Nevada said:


> He's no quack. He's a cardiac surgeon in good standing. That means he knows better.
> 
> He sends a populist message to keep his ratings high. That's why he was saying there was a magic, miracle cure for obesity when no such remedy exists. Like I said, he knows better.


 The diploma reads "Physician AND Surgeon." Two different things. Surgeons are dexterous and have learned certain physical skills. It's the cardiologist who makes the diagnoses and plans treatment, does the thinking. 

Oz is a practioner of the old adage in journalism-- "Dog bites man is not news, but man bites dog is." Nobody is going to watch a show that just talks about the boring truth....and the truth usually is boring.


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## doc- (Jun 26, 2015)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> Doc,
> I sent you a message in the Conversation section of this forum.
> Alice


--can't seem to find it...Snap a lead on this ring in my nose and take me there, please.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Click on your avatar at the top right of any page (while logged in). The drop down menu has an entry for "conversations".


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

doc- said:


> High lighted sentence--Simply wrong. It's being given now.
> 
> Your wife (and you) needs a refresher course in logic, not to mention how to evaluate research data.
> 
> ...


When you are elected Emperor, perhaps you will have advisers who can explain this too you. The shot that they are giving now does not prevent you from getting or spreading Covid. The company who makes it explains this in their published information. They claim that it will lessen the symptoms. 

Health care workers do have excellent training in the use of PPE. The problem is that most of them do not follow their guidelines or training. Like most people they are lazy, and don't think that the rules apply to them. I have watched doctors go from one patient to another doing rounds, and never once wash their hands. When I pointed this out to the doctor he got into a tiff and left the room. Washing your hands, using gloves and a face mask only work if you use them. If your health care provider does not follow good practices and guidelines, that is your fault not mine.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I would say my main objection to the vaccine is a concern about possible side affects - esp. long term ones. If I understand it correctly, this is basically a genetically engineered vaccine and, honestly, I don't believe we understand the full ramifications of using genetically engineered proteins in our bodies. Obviously we won't know about long term effectiveness in a vaccine for a virus that's been around for such a short time... but we also won't know about long term side affects of that vaccine until its been around for a long time. 

For the person that said they don't want to be a beta tester - agreed! Beta testing is the widespread use of something in the general public to find out what's wrong with it. That's different than volunteering to be part of the early trials. My very wise veterinarian told me that he didn't like to use a new drug, vaccine or treatment for some time after it came out - he didn't want his clients to be test subjects for an unproven drug, vaccine or treatment. 

I would like to see more antibody tests made available cheaply to the general public. Cheap tests are available with results in a few minutes that are just not being promoted, manufactured and distributed. 

I'm in the camp that, if you want the vaccine, you should have it available and other alternatives should continue to be pursued. I'm not in favor of forcing anyone to take it though.


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## barnbilder (Jul 1, 2005)

Nevada said:


> He's no quack. He's a cardiac surgeon in good standing. That means he knows better.
> 
> He sends a populist message to keep his ratings high. That's why he was saying there was a magic, miracle cure for obesity when no such remedy exists. Like I said, he knows better.


There is a magical miracle cure for obesity. It's called eating at a caloric deficit.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The other “magic” is eating real food, sans preservatives, sans factory made ingredients, sans added added sugar and sugar-like products.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Nevada said:


> He's no quack. He's a cardiac surgeon in good standing. That means he knows better.
> No, it doesn't.
> 
> He sends a populist message to keep his ratings high. That's why he was saying there was a magic, miracle cure for obesity when no such remedy exists.
> ...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> The other “magic” is eating real food, sans preservatives, sans factory made ingredients, sans added added sugar and sugar-like products.


I know a guy who eats crap processed dinners every night about 7:30 and within an hour he has carb cravings.
Whatever is sweet is his fix. Then he goes to bed.
Rather than eat better and less, he is taking pills, shakes and over the counter stuff to correct his weight, his sluggishness and general zombie like feeling.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

muleskinner2 said:


> When you are elected Emperor, perhaps you will have advisers who can explain this too you. The shot that they are giving now does not prevent you from getting or spreading Covid. The company who makes it explains this in their published information. They claim that it will lessen the symptoms.
> 
> Health care workers do have excellent training in the use of PPE. The problem is that most of them do not follow their guidelines or training. Like most people they are lazy, and don't think that the rules apply to them. I have watched doctors go from one patient to another doing rounds, and never once wash their hands. When I pointed this out to the doctor he got into a tiff and left the room. Washing your hands, using gloves and a face mask only work if you use them. If your health care provider does not follow good practices and guidelines, that is your fault not mine.


I work in a hospital and your experience has been much different than mine with regards to providers and PPE.

As far as the vaccine preventing you from getting covid, this is the information from the CDC with regards to the Moderna vaccine:

Based on evidence from clinical trials, the Moderna vaccine was 94.1% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 illness in people who received two doses who had no evidence of being previously infected.
The vaccine appeared to have high effectiveness in clinical trials (efficacy) among people of diverse age, sex, race, and ethnicity categories and among persons with underlying medical conditions.
You can argue the semantics about that sentence if you like, but all evidence is that the vaccine does indeed prevent you from getting covid. In the small percentage that gets covid after getting the vaccine, it does lessen symptoms, but in the vast majority, it keeps people from getting the virus. It does not just keep you from developing symptoms. People with asymptomatic covid still show positive to a covid test.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

So the people who got the early vaccine were purposefully exposed to someone with an active covid infection?


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Danaus29 said:


> So the people who got the early vaccine were purposefully exposed to someone with an active covid infection?


No


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Well then, if they weren't deliberately exposed to covid how do they know the vaccine works? Every place I have checked says antibody tests are unreliable.









Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)


CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.




www.cdc.gov




.


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

todd_xxxx said:


> I work in a hospital and your experience has been much different than mine with regards to providers and PPE.
> 
> As far as the vaccine preventing you from getting covid, this is the information from the CDC with regards to the Moderna vaccine:
> 
> ...


From your link

“ in preventing symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, which was the primary study endpoint.”

symptomatic means with symptoms. Wording does make a difference. Not enough studies or time so far for the knowledge if the moderna vaccine prevents getting covid, passing it on, or stops it and prevents it from being passed on. Medical articles discuss this. 

The vaccine sounds like a good deal. I personally would not make any attempts to stop anyone from taking the vaccines. Anyone comfortable with it should take it I would think. The more that take the vaccines the better we will know how well they work, thus allowing those with concerns about the vaccines to make decisions in the future about the consequences of the vaccines.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Danaus29 said:


> Well then, if they weren't deliberately exposed to covid how do they know the vaccine works? Every place I have checked says antibody tests are unreliable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The same way you know if any vaccine works. If you do a study of 60,000 people, 30,000 vaccinated and 30,000 not vaccinated, you compare the numbers of people that got covid between the two groups. The assumption being that with a randomized sampling of people, it is unlikely that significantly more of one group or the other have been exposed to the virus. Now that the numbers of vaccinated people is in the millions, the numbers become more clear.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Redlands Okie said:


> From your link
> 
> “ in preventing symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among persons without evidence of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, which was the primary study endpoint.”
> 
> ...


Also from my link:

Our protocol-specified analysis on the efficacy against asymptomatic infection was not available at the time of the EUA submission. However, we did collect pre-dose 1 and pre-dose 2 nasopharyngeal swabs for SARS-CoV-2 virus and have performed a descriptive summary comparing the number of positive swabs at the pre-dose 2 timepoint in baseline seronegative participants to get an early idea on the possibility of prevention of asymptomatic infection. Amongst baseline negative participants, 14 in the vaccine group and 38 in the placebo group had evidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection at the second dose without evidence of COVID-19 symptoms. There were approximately 2/3 fewer swabs that were positive in the vaccine group as compared to the placebo group at the pre-dose 2 timepoint, suggesting that some asymptomatic infections start to be prevented after the first dose. 

I don't think anyone is making any assertion that all the numbers are in yet. Many of the answers, such as "can a vaccinated person still pass on the virus?" simply aren't known yet.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Without deliberately exposing the test subjects to the virus they have no real way of knowing if they developed an immunity or not. There has to be a standard of exposure. Otherwise the results could be skewed. Group A, vaccine, introverts who are uncomfortable around people, work from home and shop on-line. Group B, placebo, huggers, partiers, and people who have to be out and about.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

The theory is that if you use large enough test groups, that isn’t a problem.

I have no information about the size of the test groups, and if their location was on lock down, how accurate are the results?


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Danaus29 said:


> Without deliberately exposing the test subjects to the virus they have no real way of knowing if they developed an immunity or not. There has to be a standard of exposure. Otherwise the results could be skewed. Group A, vaccine, introverts who are uncomfortable around people, work from home and shop on-line. Group B, placebo, huggers, partiers, and people who have to be out and about.


While I understand the point, what are the odds that the groups would be broken down like that in a random sampling of tens of thousands of people?

As far as deliberately exposing people, there are ethical concerns to doing so. London is getting ready to start a trial doing that very thing though. Personally, I don't think it's necessary now that literally millions of people have been vaccinated. The true numbers will become evident soon enough.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Jan 10, 2021

Take the Moderna group, 30,000 volunteers, 90 in the placebo group got covid, 5 in the vaccine group got covid. The number of people in each group who got covid is still very small.









Moderna's COVID-19 Vaccine Shines In Clinical Trial


The vaccine is nearly 95% effective in preventing illness, according to an interim analysis of a clinical test involving 30,000 people.




www.npr.org





Pfizer had 36,523 trials. 170 cases of covid in the placebo group, 8 cases in the vaccinated group.





__





Pfizer and BioNTech Announce Publication of Results from Landmark Phase 3 Trial of BNT162b2 COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate in The New England Journal of Medicine | Pfizer


Data from 43,448 participants, half of whom received BNT162b2 and half of whom received placebo, showed that the vaccine candidate was well tolerated and demonstrated 95% efficacy in preventing COVID-19 in those without prior infection 7 days or more after the second dose Vaccine efficacy...




www.pfizer.com





In both groups and both trials only a tiny percentage of people got covid.

Tens of thousands, only a total of 66,523 people involved in the trials.

Do you really think the public will be notified of the number of vaccinated people who get covid?


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Danaus29 said:


> Jan 10, 2021
> 
> Take the Moderna group, 30,000 volunteers, 90 in the placebo group got covid, 5 in the vaccine group got covid. The number of people in each group who got covid is still very small.
> 
> ...


So, in each case, 20 times as many people got covid in the non vaccinated groups. And yes, 66,000 is tens of thousands of people. 

And yes, I do think the public will be notified how many vaccinated people get covid. I know at my hospital,and the county and state I live in, positive cases are tracked very closely.

It seems to me that you are just skeptical about the vaccine in general and don't want it. There is nothing wrong with that, just don't get it. No one is being forced to take it. At least not yet. Even the military and health care workers are not mandated, and they will be the first if anyone is.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Of course I am skeptical of the vaccine. Others asked why some people are skeptical of the vaccine. They say it was tested extensively. I pointed out that only the reactions were tested, not it's effectiveness. 

I wish you the best when you get your vaccine.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Danaus29 said:


> I wish you the best when you get your vaccine.


I appreciate that. I already got the first one, with the next scheduled for the 20th.


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## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Don't get me wrong todd, I do truly hope the vaccine is as effective and safe as advertised. I am so far down on the list that covid will be a thing of the past long before my turn comes around. But I have questions that have not been answered, the lack of answers concerns me greatly.


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

Posted 1/11/21 10:21 PM CST

I read yesterday of a in good health 56 year old pro vaccine doctor in Miami died just short of two weeks after getting the Phizer vaccine. The article in the Miami Herald indicated he suffered internal hemorrhaging and lack of platelet clotting related to the vaccine and the Florida Health Department and CDC were investigating the death.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Danaus29 said:


> Don't get me wrong todd, I do truly hope the vaccine is as effective and safe as advertised. I am so far down on the list that covid will be a thing of the past long before my turn comes around. But I have questions that have not been answered, the lack of answers concerns me greatly.


I do too. I have elderly parents that I'm very concerned about our I may not have gotten it myself yet. It's a calculated risk im willing to take, but I don't fault anyone who doesn't want it.


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## todd_xxxx (Apr 19, 2018)

Shrek said:


> Posted 1/11/21 10:21 PM CST
> 
> I read yesterday of a in good health 56 year old pro vaccine doctor in Miami died just short of two weeks after getting the Phizer vaccine. The article in the Miami Herald indicated he suffered internal hemorrhaging and lack of platelet clotting related to the vaccine and the Florida Health Department and CDC were investigating the death.


That is partly correct. There is no evidence that it was related to the vaccine. Literally millions of people have received the vaccine at this point, and that is the only reported death I have read anything about. As much as the media loves sensationalized stories, if there were more deaths they could attribute to the vaccine, they would be all over it. If it were related to the vaccine, it seems it would happen more than once.


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