# Socializing pups that you want as guard dogs



## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

In another thread it was mentioned that our ACD/?beagle pup needs socializing. 

As I can't drive we won't be out in parks or many public places as staying home suits my physical needs best. Sam is a pet who we want guarding/alerting us to strangers. We don't want him wagging his tail/asking for attention at everybody that comes to the house.

Does he still need social training? Meeting other dogs and people, new situations. My learning is what I know of GSD and Schnauzers, so how different are ACDs, ACD/mix??


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

YES he still needs social training. 

It is _especially_ important if you want him as a guard dog. Dogs without social training nearly always have a fear response to people. So he will either skulk away or he will snarl and growl at _everyone_, being a danger and a nuisance, but not a good defender.

GSDs and Shnauzers are good build up to an ACD, you know about their protective instinct and how important it is to socialize them. ACDs are prone to more extreme behavior, they are more prone to bite. (Not trying to offend anyone, but they are famous for that lightening quick "grip")
The problem is, without social training, they do it out of a fear response. That means that the big scary guy breaking in your window will be too much for your dog to go for, but the squealing young neighbor girls will be just threatening enough that the dog may "dare" to go after them. 

The more people your dog meets, and the more situations he is exposed to, the more it builds his confidence and gives him a sense of what is Ok and what is Not Ok. They can tell the difference between a friendly stranger and someone who is giving off tense vibes. 
My old dog would let anyone in through the front door, but don't you dare come around the back door!! Not unless you wanted to be greeted with 50 pounds of teeth. He defended my home, property and DD on several occasions, but any child could play with him, sit on him, dress him, pull up his lips to look at his teeth.

My 2 youngsters are still learning. Any child can come up and knock on my door and I wont hear a peep. But they let me know if someone pulls in the driveway by barking. They are well on their way to being good guard dogs* and NOT loud, growling, barking pests who need to be "put up" when company comes over or who I need to worry about biting the trash guy (but, he was stealing our stuff..)

(guard in their cases means a warning bark, I wouldn't count on a beagle or golden to defend, lol)


----------



## wendle (Feb 22, 2006)

Socialize, socialize!! Your dog needs to be exposed to many situations and people. I take my dogs along almost everywhere I go, dog friendly of course. I insist they be friendly with strangers and are willing to be petted and fussed over. I also like to know I can trust my dogs to be sensible when going to the vets, or out in public. If they were to get lost or need to be watched by another person they need to be able to deal with the change. If your dog is allowed to be overly aggressive as a guard dog, not socialized, and ends up attacking somebody, it could mean a death sentence for him. 
Even with all the socializing and training done my dogs will bark at intruders. They are big enough and intimidating so nobody seems to want to get close enough to see if they might actually bite.


----------



## Willow101 (Feb 20, 2008)

Territorial guarding is a genetic trait. Socializing will make the dog much safer but will not discourage guarding behavior.

My concern, given the combination of breeds, is trainability and control. I don't think you will have any problem getting the dog to defend it's territory but I would be concerned that it may not listen when you ask the dog to stop defending against a particular person or threat.

Both Beagles and ACDs are independant. Beagles even more so that ACDs. That is one reason you don't see many of either breed in obedience competitions. I would highly suggest obedience training just to keep an upper hand on any aggression that might develop as an adult.

I have never owned an ACD so can only speculate about adult temperament based on what I have heard from friends who have owned them. Those owners said they are independant thinkers, devoted and VERY good guard dogs...perhaps to a fault. They are tough and often dominant in nature. Those that have owned them here might comment with a much better first hand opinion. 

I have owned several Beagles and their LACK of trainability is legend. They have a mind of their own. I have also found that aggression is common and usually comes in the form of dominance aggression and not so much territorial aggression. Dominance seems to be present in both breeds and the way to deal with that is obedience which supports your role as a pack leader.

They do not have to be dominant to guard. But they do have to be controlable to be safe and to prevent law suits that could cost you thousands.

Willow101


----------



## twohunnyz (Apr 27, 2006)

shepmom said:


> As I can't drive we won't be out in parks or many public places as staying home suits my physical needs best.


Socialization is critical if a dog is _not_ to develop aggressive behavior towards people and other dogs. It is recommended that a puppy meet as many new people _each week_ as possible. Socialization also needs to continue during a dogs life, it is not a matter of once socialized, always socialized. They can lose it if not used. 

I am house-bound due to health and transport issues, too. Are you able to take him for a walk? Is there another family member who can take the puppy out for socialization? If not, what about asking friends and family to come to you? Even the postal carrier, sales person, religious folks and UPS man are 'strangers' your puppy will benefit from meeting. Everyone you can think of! It made a wonderful difference in our young dog. He is very well-socialized, yet is an excellent guard dog. I have _absolute_ trust and confidence in his judgment as to the vibes he gets from people. 

Krystal


----------



## funnyfarmnatura (May 27, 2009)

Everyone is right on the money with socializing. But I would also like to point out that *YOUR* leadership skills need to be tops. This dog needs to look to *you* for his next move upon alert. *You* decide what he should do or not do next. 
For instance his natural guarding will prevail on its own merit, in that he may decide that those chickens or lambs or even kids on your place are HIS to do with at his own discretion. You need to make sure he understand his limits and boundaries. He needs to be obedient now. Set him and you up for success now while he is young. Get involved in obedience classes if you are capable so that you are in a social setting and where you can gain handling skills.
Best of luck to you all!
Kerry


----------



## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

**I have owned several Beagles and their LACK of trainability is legend. They have a mind of their own. I have also found that aggression is common and usually comes in the form of dominance aggression and not so much territorial aggression. Dominance seems to be present in both breeds and the way to deal with that is obedience which supports your role as a pack leader.**

No wonder he's such a stubborn mule. 

Well, I'll need to start with collar and leash and go from there.


----------



## twohunnyz (Apr 27, 2006)

shepmom said:


> Well, I'll need to start with collar and leash and go from there.


That's it... baby steps for everyone.  

I find it amazing how quickly a puppy, with no prior exposure, learns to walk with collar and lead. For the first few weeks, I actually have my pup on lead practically tied to me! As I take a step I say 'come'. It learns really fast to tune into your moves and body language. Plus, having it with you all the time helps it to bond to you, look to you as the leader, and aids tremendously in your getting to know the signs that it needs to go potty. All huge bonuses in my book! 

Have fun with your puppy!

Krystal


----------



## shepmom (May 29, 2003)

**I wouldn't count on a beagle or golden to defend, lol**

LOL...he can do a mean number on ankles.

I've been keeping him outdoors more, as he isn't as rambunctious with the heat.
He knows the word NO perfectly. Working on sit. Getting better with NO BITE(people aren't your chewies).

Socializing with the sheep. The sheep are fascinated with him. He sniffs, licks then goes for a bite to their noses and barks at them through the fence. They just stare at him. Groups of them will line up to look at him.


----------



## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

LOL, well...
Marley Golden is very BIG and Scooter Beagle is very LOUD and that's enough for most people to stop right there.
-However-
If you decided to push on anyway, the only real danger you'd be in is you have a very real chance of being beaten to death by their tails.

Marley has that perfect Golden temperament in which he can-not be convinced that there is anything that a human being can do that would be bad.
Scooter, with typical hound dog stubbornness, thought he could be very big and bad when he was younger. But I've got enough kids and company regularly that he and I had it out and when I convinced him that if I wanted a tough dog it wouldn't be him he just as stubbornly decided that _fine then_, he would never cross that line again.

But I guess with the right beagle you could have a pretty fierce guard dog.

Now if only all criminals were midgets.....


----------



## HilltopDaisy (Feb 26, 2003)

**Everyone is right on the money with socializing. But I would also like to point out that YOUR leadership skills need to be tops. This dog needs to look to you for his next move upon alert. You decide what he should do or not do next. 
For instance his natural guarding will prevail on its own merit, in that he may decide that those chickens or lambs or even kids on your place are HIS to do with at his own discretion. You need to make sure he understand his limits and boundaries. He needs to be obedient now. Set him and you up for success now while he is young. Get involved in obedience classes if you are capable so that you are in a social setting and where you can gain handling skills.
Best of luck to you all!
Kerry**


Awesome post!


----------



## HilltopDaisy (Feb 26, 2003)

funnyfarmnatura said:


> Everyone is right on the money with socializing. But I would also like to point out that *YOUR* leadership skills need to be tops. This dog needs to look to *you* for his next move upon alert. *You* decide what he should do or not do next.
> For instance his natural guarding will prevail on its own merit, in that he may decide that those chickens or lambs or even kids on your place are HIS to do with at his own discretion. You need to make sure he understand his limits and boundaries. He needs to be obedient now. Set him and you up for success now while he is young. Get involved in obedience classes if you are capable so that you are in a social setting and where you can gain handling skills.
> Best of luck to you all!
> Kerry


I agree!!!


----------

