# epidemics - when to make the decision?



## bama (Aug 21, 2011)

when would you make the decision to quarantine yourself from the outside world?

this flu going rampant everywhere really has me on edge, and i am truly not a germophobe. i got to thinking about WHEN would you decide enough is enough and isolate yourself?

hard to make that decision, what with work and school starting back up tomorrow. i was hoping that the two week vacation would give everyone time to get over it, but it seems to be stronger than ever.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

I think that unless you have a particular health problem that would be increased by the flu, that you have to consider both transmission rates and mortality rates. 

Although I wouldn't like it, I wouldn't be too concerned if the transmission rate was high but the mortality rate was low. In that case, I'd do what I could (wash hands frequently, stay away from crowds as much as possible, try to strengthen my immune system)but wouldn't quarrantine myself. I would still go to the grocery store, church, martial arts class, etc., just would avoid as much direct physical contact as possible.

However, if the mortality rate was high and there were cases reported in my area, then I would start isolating myself more. If transmission rates were also high, dh would probably start working remotely from here at home and we would limit store trips to unpopular hours and wear a filtration mask. Would also consider wearing gloves and doing a thorough decontamination every time we returned to the property.


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## MissKitty (Mar 16, 2005)

I was thinking about this very thing..both my husband and I have asthma and he is diabetic..we do the vit....burn diffusers...avoid sickness when we know it is there but we are out in the public a few days aweek...


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## MissKitty (Mar 16, 2005)

When would you be safe to "come out?"


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

The flu circulating at present is nothing to worry about. It is the regular garden variety low mortality flu. If you want to decrease your chances of getting it use hand sanitizer regularly when out in public. The virus lives on surfaces so touching handles carts ect will contaminate your hands and if you touch your face -bingo! 

A flu like H5N1[the bird flu] is a whole different story. It at present does not pass from human to human easily. If it ever mutates so that it can transmit easily we are in trouble. The mortality rate is anywhere from 50% to 80% and that is with hospital /ventilator support. Which in a pandemic will not be available. I plan on SIP when the first case is announce in the USA. A new [novel ] flu historically comes in waves lsting about 20 weeks. You would be able to go out inbetween waves. Their are usually three waves with a new flu strain in pandemics. Hopefully by the time we get to the third wave we will have enough vaccine available for everyone.


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## Helena (May 10, 2002)

Mentioned this before that only about 1/3 of our population received the flu vaccine. so...I personally now am able to stay home and I do as much as possible. Husband going to store today for me...why both of us need to go ?? Wash hands, disinfect bathroom daily and common sense. eat well and get your rest.


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## ovsfarm (Jan 14, 2003)

Re the vaccine, as of now, our family does not get the flu vax. A homeschooling website I read had posts from moms whose doctors had told them that a lot of the flu cases they were seeing this time had already had the vax, so apparently the vax is not formulated for the current strain.

However, if a serious pandemic strain came along, I do think we would eventually get the vax, but hopefully would have the luxury of waiting a couple of months to be sure that the shot was safe. While I'm not big on most vaccinations, I think the possible risks from a shot would be less than those posed by a high-mortality-rate flu.

What do you all think?


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

Minnesota has been hit really hard with the flu, so far there are 4 deaths.

Take extra Vitamin C and Vitamin D3 to help your immune system.


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## ginnie5 (Jul 15, 2003)

dd works in a doctor's office and she says that the vaccine is not covering the strain that is hitting everyone.....contrary to what I heard on the news. Quite a few at our church had the flu just before Christmas. We took the precaution of staying home 2 weeks. I'm not worried about it though. No major health issues here other than my high bp. Immune systems are pretty good and we eat well. 
Oh and except for dd (who had to have the vax or wear a mask) no flu shots here and no plans to get them.
If it was hitting hard here and there were deaths we would stay home. Dh works on the road and would come home as he was able. Any shopping that needed to be done would be me only (kids stay home) late at night and I would wear a mask and was my hands the second I was done.


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

janetn said:


> The flu circulating at present is nothing to worry about. It is the regular garden variety low mortality flu. ...........
> ..................


Six children have died in our area in the last month. No all flu going around is the same in all areas so be careful of your advice. 

I thought of my son going back to school this week. I thought twice about sending him. I even thought I'd call the school to see how many kids didn't show up today due to illness. I do not know when I would pull the plug and keep him home. Probably too late. GEnerally, however, we are not sickish people. I have never had the flu. DH, however, had it for 3 weeks over Christmas. He's not too interested in being exposed to it again.


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## Ohio dreamer (Apr 6, 2006)

Dh has to go to work, so there is no quarantine for us. Kids are homeschooled, so there is less chances of germs that way. But then again, my kids are homeschooled....so we are out and about everywhere, lol. As of last night, everyone is getting a dose of elderberry with their supper. I'm requesting everyone drink 3 glasses of water a day. That will boost out immune system and keep up hydrated...since low immune systems and dehydration makes you more likely to pick up illness. 

After reading here, I think I'll add hand sanitizer to our "getting back in the car" routine.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

Callieslamb said:


> Six children have died in our area in the last month. No all flu going around is the same in all areas so be careful of your advice.


 
So sad. 
Do you know, were these children immuno-compromised? Or were the otherwise healthy kids?


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

PrettyPaisley said:


> So sad.
> Do you know, were these children immuno-compromised? Or were the otherwise healthy kids?


The news said all that died here were healthy. A few children, most in their 20's &30's.


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## bama (Aug 21, 2011)

my mom has "thick" pneumonia. if she isn't much better in a couple days, she will be in the hospital.  she had the flu over christmas.

i am torn between taking the sambucol (elderberry) and various supplements and. . .not. i am afraid that this could mutate into a more deadly version that would trigger a cytokine response. might be better to get it now and be really sick for a week versus getting it later and ending up dead.

can you tell i have read way way way too much about the 1918 spanish flu? LOL


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

We have a 14 year old clinging to life here in MN and she's a basketball player so I assume she was pretty healthy to begin with. She also had the flu shot.

There was a 17 year old boy from Texas that died last week in a hospital here in MN.


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## meddac (Nov 21, 2008)

Your more likely to be killed in a vehicle accident than the present flu. If it mutates and starts killing off 10+% of the population then hunker down.


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## PrettyPaisley (May 18, 2007)

bama said:


> my mom has "thick" pneumonia. if she isn't much better in a couple days, she will be in the hospital.  she had the flu over christmas.
> 
> i am torn between taking the sambucol (elderberry) and various supplements and. . .not. i am afraid that this could mutate into a more deadly version that would trigger a cytokine response. might be better to get it now and be really sick for a week versus getting it later and ending up dead.
> 
> can you tell i have read way way way too much about the 1918 spanish flu? LOL


I am no flu expert but I make elderberry syrup for the family to take this time of year. Does the eldeberry cause this "cytokine response" ? I tried to google but wasn't following it. 

I hope your mom gets better soon.


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## justincase (Jul 16, 2011)

at some point in time awhile back i wrote a post re this matter....it was when h1n1 was floating about and it seemed like it could get bad. I had a newborn so i took matters into my own hands.....everone that came over thought i was nuts . now please not I had a 19 year old daughter and her boyfriend living at home so my measures for cleanliness was not recieved well...and I hear I was crazy alot. This is what I did and not one not one sniffle or illness of ANY sort in my home that winter. I sprayed the grocery bags in the parking lot and the food in the bags with Lysol spray...you have NO idea what gross germs you are bringing into your home from the grocery store. An Example and TRUE...lady picks nose picks up can of corn decides does not want corn puts on shelf..you buy the snot infested can of corn(yum?) people caugh sneeze etc handle food and put it back or stock it. I then came home sprayed the bottom of my shoes and removes them (habit I got into while working in Hospital, now work in grocery store) wiped down food etc with a lil rubbing alcahol or at leats sprayed with lysol. wahsed hands afterwards. The following year we had cold on and off all winter my oldest daughter said"sorry i daid you were crazy last winter with all your cleaning cuz we should have done it this year cuz we all have been nothing but sick this year" A teen saying that to a parent well hold alot of weight, I mean admitting they were wrong! Your worst germ carriers are your shoes and things others touch.....you can just not even imagine how dirty things are..the keypad to the ATM, monry, doors to the store fridge or freezer I mean how often ddo you think those get wiped down? The store I work in is very clean but we have no time for that kinda cleaning....think about what you are touching really think about itand who and what may have touched it before you.... it will get your mind becoming truely aware of the importance of cleaning. I am shocked how I would visit people in a hospital and walk into my home with shoes on with no thought....yea they get mopped after seriuose spills and at least really clean nightly.. but the sputum and blood vomit etc you are bringing that home on your shoes....or how many dudes spit in a parking lot, could you have stepped in that sputum and tracked that in? I am not a germaphobe but think about how to REALLY be ready for a seriuose event.....good luck and hope ya feel better.. we had a cough that was bad for over 6 weeks mine turned into pneumonia and lasted forever..take care and rest up


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

When my youngest was born with health issues, all of her doctors told me NOT to try to eliminate all the germs. If your never exposed you won't build immunity. I am far, very far from a neat freak we don't get flu shots and have had nothing but the occasionally cold. When all the kids at school are sick we wash our hands more and that seems to bee working just fine.


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

Callieslamb said:


> Six children have died in our area in the last month. No all flu going around is the same in all areas so be careful of your advice.
> 
> I thought of my son going back to school this week. I thought twice about sending him. I even thought I'd call the school to see how many kids didn't show up today due to illness. I do not know when I would pull the plug and keep him home. Probably too late. GEnerally, however, we are not sickish people. I have never had the flu. DH, however, had it for 3 weeks over Christmas. He's not too interested in being exposed to it again.


 Callie I am careful with the facts I post, the info is from the CDC Both the A and B types are the same predominate strain in the entire US and their has been 18 pediatric deaths in the whole US the year, statisticly that is very very low. Although tragic for those whom it effects. Out of the 18 pediatric deaths Im bettinga large number of those children had other existing conditions. As is usually the case
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

One of my DD has breathing problems when she is sick so I am extra vigilant. Both she and my dh seem to not have very hardy immune systems.

I would get concerned when an epidemic has:

*Gone airborne and virulent.
*Has an unusually high mortality rate
*Is spreading through many communities rather than isolated pockets and cities.

Of course at that rate it could be too late but the life changes required to do a full on quarantine are serious business.

As a part of quarantine I would post a polite sign in my yard saying "We have the flu, please contact us via phone for your safety" even if we were not sick.

I would do 100% of my shopping online. If it were delayed or stopped due to pandemic I can survive on preps and various resources. My dd's and I would not leave the home except to go in our fenced yard to play.

I would instruct the UPS guy to leave all packages in our vehicle. They would quarantine in there for 72 hours. In hot weather the germies would hopefully cook or in cold weather hopefully freeze. Plus the time frame should do it. As an extra prepanoia precaution I would lysol the heck out of them too.

DH makes his own schedule and doesn't come in contact with too many people when he goes out on calls. He would have to follow some pretty stringent precautions with plenty of germex, lysol, gloves and masks. He would have to change clothes in the shop and immediately shower in the mudroom bathroom. He would have an "invisible bubble" of probably 5 feet (3 feet is in cough, sneeze range as far as I know). We would not share linens, dishes, his recliner, remote controls and would have to bypass physical affection.

Super OCD on my part but my dd with the breathing issues cannot get a bad flu in a pandemic situation, she would not survive because she sometimes requires a special treatment only found at a hospital, where all the sick people go.

IF things got bad enough for a real quarantine we would keep up the precautions until the passing of the following flu season. We may step it down or modify but that length of time would feel safe for my piece of mind.


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## Cyngbaeld (May 20, 2004)

I can't say it enough. EVERY home should have a long handled vibrator that a person can use to break mucous up in the lungs. Run it over the chest (front and back) several times a day if you have flu or a cold that seems to be settling in the chest. It can keep you out of the hospital. It is also good to use in an asthma attack.

Everybody should also learn basic breathing techniques that singers use. Even if you cannot carry a tune in a bucket you need this. It can save your life when your lungs are not functioning at top capacity. Either look for them online or buy a dvd or find a singing coach and ask her/him to teach you to breath properly.

Our first line of defense is handwashing. I also am careful to never put my hands near my face when I am out in public unless I have a tissue between my hand and my face. Shoes come off at the door always. Hands are washed as soon as we come thru the door. 

If you have to eat out, be sure all the food is HOT and in disposable dishes. No salad bars or buffets.


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

Cyngbaeld said:


> I can't say it enough. EVERY home should have a long handled vibrator that a person can use to break mucous up in the lungs. Run it over the chest (front and back) several times a day if you have flu or a cold that seems to be settling in the chest. It can keep you out of the hospital. It is also good to use in an asthma attack.


I realize what your intent is and it is a great idea. I would have understood better the first time I read this if you said a long handled vibrating back massager.

I started to imagine a long handled *ahem* vibrator. Then I read the part about the lungs and had to stop to think BEFORE you said over the chest. All I was seeing was the *ahem* massaging actual lungs. 

Oh my gosh...that visual was amusing and pretty much says waaaay too much about me.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

Sadly, the 14 year old girl I had posted about, died today.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/20535380/st-louis-park-girl-14-dies-of-flu-complications


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

scooter said:


> Sadly, the 14 year old girl I had posted about, died today.
> 
> http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/20535380/st-louis-park-girl-14-dies-of-flu-complications



How sad.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Cyngbaeld said:


> I can't say it enough. EVERY home should have a long handled vibrator that a person can use to break mucous up in the lungs. Run it over the chest (front and back) several times a day if you have flu or a cold that seems to be settling in the chest. It can keep you out of the hospital. It is also good to use in an asthma attack.


I'm sorry but a vibrator isn't going to help an asthma attack that is a constricting and swelling of the brochial passages in the lungs. 



> Our first line of defense is handwashing. I also am careful to never put my hands near my face when I am out in public unless I have a tissue between my hand and my face. Shoes come off at the door always. Hands are washed as soon as we come thru the door.


I'd say that this is the #1 defense in germ warfare. Wash and keep hands away from the face. Doing this will probably prevent 80% of illnesses (my guess).


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

The H3N2 strain *tends* to be a more severe seasonal variety than H1N1 is, more of a threat to older folks and causing some bad illness in younger, also. This is nowhere as bad as a contagious H5N1 would likely be, or the 1918 pandemic H1N1 strain, either, but figuring ways to avoid getting it at all is a very sensible strategy. What I've seen is that some of the sampling and full genetic analysis done by the CDC and WHO over the past half year or so has turned up some of what they call "low reactor" variants in the overall H3N2 strain. What that means is that a short genetic sequence in one of the virus' genes that the vaccine shot drives our immune systems to recognize and attach to has changed the virus (= its proteins) just enough that the shot doesn't work very well. That's IF what gets out there more and more is in fact this slightly altered variant, but that does sound to me like what's happening. It's not that anything drastic like a swapped gene ("reassortment") has happened and is getting traction, but it's not a good thing to be added to the mix if in fact only 30% of Americans have gotten the shot this season. 

I had a routine visit with my family MD a few days ago and asked what he was seeing locally, given that I haven't seen reports yet of the serious upsurge in cases in many other parts of the US. He gave me a pretty concerned look and said he had three patients with flu and two of them were hospitalized, so I figure the pump is primed here, too. This morning I had a chat with the young woman who puts in a half-dozen short shifts weekly as a personal assistant for my elderly MIL (mid-90s) who still lives independently but needs help, told her that since she has a couple of kids 10-13 or some such that IF either come home with likely flu we'd appreciate it if she'd wash up real good before entering MIL's house, and skip sessions altogether if she had the slightest sense of symptoms, since their all having had the shots may not do the job this season. I figure to be doing "shelter in place" sorts of moves with MIL as soon as there are any reports of ERs jammed with patients and/or any sounds of coughing getting more common in public places. We're all getting older too so the shots may not stimulate immunity for us as well even without that "low reactor" finding in the mix.

I did start up with elderberry syrup twice a day for myself maybe a week ago. My best guess is that unless clear reports of "cytokine storm" reactions start coming in, the possible immunity boost from the berries isn't very likely to cause that overreaction, but that is surely a somewhat gray area regarding plusses and minuses if it works at all.


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

DryHeat said:


> The H3N2 strain *tends* to be a more severe seasonal variety than H1N1 is, more of a threat to older folks and causing some bad illness in younger, also. This is nowhere as bad as a contagious H5N1 would likely be, or the 1918 pandemic H1N1 strain, either, but figuring ways to avoid getting it at all is a very sensible strategy. What I've seen is that some of the sampling and full genetic analysis done by the CDC and WHO over the past half year or so has turned up some of what they call "low reactor" variants in the overall H3N2 strain. What that means is that a short genetic sequence in one of the virus' genes that the vaccine shot drives our immune systems to recognize and attach to has changed the virus (= its proteins) just enough that the shot doesn't work very well. That's IF what gets out there more and more is in fact this slightly altered variant, but that does sound to me like what's happening. It's not that anything drastic like a swapped gene ("reassortment") has happened and is getting traction, but it's not a good thing to be added to the mix if in fact only 30% of Americans have gotten the shot this season.
> 
> I had a routine visit with my family MD a few days ago and asked what he was seeing locally, given that I haven't seen reports yet of the serious upsurge in cases in many other parts of the US. He gave me a pretty concerned look and said he had three patients with flu and two of them were hospitalized, so I figure the pump is primed here, too. This morning I had a chat with the young woman who puts in a half-dozen short shifts weekly as a personal assistant for my elderly MIL (mid-90s) who still lives independently but needs help, told her that since she has a couple of kids 10-13 or some such that IF either come home with likely flu we'd appreciate it if she'd wash up real good before entering MIL's house, and skip sessions altogether if she had the slightest sense of symptoms, since their all having had the shots may not do the job this season. I figure to be doing "shelter in place" sorts of moves with MIL as soon as there are any reports of ERs jammed with patients and/or any sounds of coughing getting more common in public places. We're all getting older too so the shots may not stimulate immunity for us as well even without that "low reactor" finding in the mix.
> 
> I did start up with elderberry syrup twice a day for myself maybe a week ago. My best guess is that unless clear reports of "cytokine storm" reactions start coming in, the possible immunity boost from the berries isn't very likely to cause that overreaction, but that is surely a somewhat gray area regarding plusses and minuses if it works at all.


In talking with the nurses at the local hospital they are not seeing anything like cytokine storms. What they are seeing is people getting their butts kicked by the flu which leaves them vunerable to pneumonias, and in some COPDers outright resp failure. Where Im at in long term care were seeing a big uptick in cases in the patients this week - were now getting ten plus new cases a day. About 10% are ending up in bad shape, and either shipped off to the hospital or dying. That isnt particularly unusual for our population. But we are starting Tamiflu quickly - not even waiting for the swabs. Treating according to presenting systoms. If I get through the next week untouched I will breathe a little easier [literally] I skipped the vaccine this year since I had taken it the past two years because of H1N1. I dont usually vaccinate unless their is a particularly novel strain - I watch the southern hemisphere to see what we might see - I think I screwed up by not getting the vaccine  Im so exposed at this point that Im afraid to take the vaccine now as Id with my luck get a double whammy - both hit with the virus and the vaccine response at the same time. Im hitting the vit D and sambucol, and a little trick I learned by accident - Zinc in my nostrils - supposedly cold viruses have a hard time adhering to cells with zinc. Thats the theory behind cold eze ect. Plus it keeps my nose from drying out which causes cracks in the mucus membranes - this has absolutly no scientific eveidence behind it other than my hope and prayers - I figure it cant hurt. So for me its the smell of zinc oxide creame for a while ound:


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## westend (Jul 11, 2012)

Boston just declared a public health emergency. 25% of severe flu cases on Boston are requiring hospitalization. http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/general/news/jan0913flu.html

This type of emergency declaration might be one of your indicators. Flu rates (and severity) differ by location --look up your local public health agency and most report publicly (although the data can lag a bit). 

Google also keeps a flu-trends from data mining (very good) that link is here: 
http://www.google.org/flutrends/us/#US

As for the vaccine, it is still very much worth getting --up to a 60% effective rate. IT IS NOT TOO LATE to get it. 

Take a layered approach, including the vaccine and when out, avoid touching your face (really makes a difference), clean your hands frequently, and give other folks a little distance. 

True flu infection is often followed by secondary pneumonia infection. This most often happens when people start feeling a little better and try to get back into things. It can take weeks to recover from the flu.

And stay hydrated -- dehydrated humans get sick far easier (had a prominent public health doc tell me this when we were working on the 2009 pandemic.)


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

westend said:


> Boston just declared a public health emergency. 25% of severe flu cases on Boston are requiring hospitalization. http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/general/news/jan0913flu.html
> 
> This type of emergency declaration might be one of your indicators. Flu rates (and severity) differ by location --look up your local public health agency and most report publicly (although the data can lag a bit).
> 
> ...


 The 25% number is a bit misleading - its 25% of REPORTED flu cases. Most cases are never reported. Most folks tough it out without ever seeing a doctor. Its the really sick ones that end up seeking medical attention. Some cases even at the doctors offices are not reported as the doctors dx and tx by symtoms during an outbreak without testing for the flu - if it walks like a duck type of thing. 
That said this is a nasty flu bug this year. It will be a flu season to remember - like the Hong Kong flu decades ago or some others.

Eveyone remember anything you touch in public can [and probably is] contaminated with the flu. Hand sanitizer is your friend when out and about.


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## scooter (Mar 31, 2008)

The National news on TV doesn't sound good. A lot of hospitals are now requiring face masks for visitors. I wish I had some face masks in my preps, as right now with what's going on, I would wear one if I have to go out to do some shopping. I did have the vaccine this year, but so many of the people that had it, are now sick, some with the same virus that the vaccine was suppose to cover.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

Scooter, one of the hospital's in the next town over is not allowing anyone to visit the patients....... with the exception of close family, and i think its also no one under the age of 15,and also folks have to wear mask.
Also a friend of ours Mom is in a nursing home, and they are allowing no visits till they get the flu under control...
Erin Burnett of CNN is doing a special on the flu stuff tonight also..


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

I just got home with my daughter from the ER (20 year old, sudden chest pain and dizziness - she is doing fine now though) and there were a TON of patients there with the flu and when someone left a bed, they took down the curtain, took all linens out and SCRUBBED the entire area. I was surprised about even the curtain being taken down!! I asked the nurse if they are seeing a lot of flu and she just rolled her eyes and said "yes". We were there for 2 hours and 2 flu patients were brought in by ambulance.


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## bama (Aug 21, 2011)

y'all are not helping with my freaked out feeling! LOL j/k

i just honestly don't trust the media to tell the truth and hard facts, to know if a sickness is truly deadly, kwim? maybe its time for a little tin foil hat? i have been watching facebook and the obits here to see if i see or hear of anything.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

Annsni, glad your daughter is okay, and i sure hope you all don't come down with the flu....


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

Rainy said:


> Annsni, glad your daughter is okay, and i sure hope you all don't come down with the flu....


Thanks. Both of us have had the flu shot and we sanitized as we left and then washed up well when we got home.  She's feeling good now thanks to a shot of pain killer and we're about to order Chinese. That will make us ALL feel good!


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## westend (Jul 11, 2012)

Bama....the CDC does report fatalities. It is a very trusted source. And you can check that site for the latest mortality rates. The CDC numbers lag about a week, but they are honest. I've worked intensively on flu... Starting with pandemic planning before 2007 and working through the 2009 event as a crisis manager. Look at the public health site in your area and the CDC site. 

The CDC site also has very good, and accurate, advise on how to avoid/minimize your exposure.


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## shannsmom (Jul 28, 2009)

Scooter, if you don't know anyone in the medical field who can get you some masks, home improvement stores sell N95 masks in the drywall/paint section. They're not cheap, but better than getting the flu.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

We've had 8 deaths here in Oklahoma from it, 1 in my county and 3 in the next county over, where I do all my shopping, doctor visits, etc., and I'm sick as a dog with it right now. Got sick hard and fast night before last. Tamiflu was almost $300 without insurance, so I'm just hoping to tough it out with symptomatic treatment. My doctor will give me antibiotics if I develop a secondary infection.

My county even closed some schools today because over 25% are out with it, and a lot of others are coming in sick. The local doctors' offices and hospitals are getting overwhelmed.

I do medical transcription for a couple of hospitals in Connecticut, and they're just bombarded with it, our dictation has doubled in the last week, almost all new flu cases or secondary infections after the flu. The staff are working extra shifts, and they've set up extra beds anywhere they can. They're even turning people out of the ICU sooner than they would otherwise because they need the beds. Don't want to scare anyone, but it's getting pretty bad folks. 

I kind of like Cyng's idea about the massager. It might help break up the thick mucus and help with expectorating it out. There's a machine that respiratory therapists use that basically does the same thing, vibrating, breaking it up and shaking it loose, only stronger, so the patient can cough it up. If I wasn't half dead, plus not wanting to infect anyone else, I might go get one and give it a try, lol. 

I'm not normally a worry wart about these kinds of things, but I do recommend lots of hand washing, hand sanitizer if you have to be out in public (but not getting out if you don't have to) and anything to boost your immune system like vitamin C, L-lysine, vitamin D, echinacea, ginseng, garlic, elderberry, etc.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

calliemoonbeam, Hope you get to feeling better soon.....take care and drink lots of fluids.


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## calliemoonbeam (Aug 7, 2007)

Thanks Rainy! I was only out of bed for a couple of hours when I posted that, and this is my first time today, other than bathroom and fluid trips. Drinking lots of water, tea and fruit juice. Still really sick, coughing and congested and weak as a kitten, lol. But my fever seems to be coming down, not having to take so much acetaminophen, thank goodness. Thanks for the good wishes!


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

calliemoonbeam said:


> Thanks Rainy! I was only out of bed for a couple of hours when I posted that, and this is my first time today, other than bathroom and fluid trips. Drinking lots of water, tea and fruit juice. Still really sick, coughing and congested and weak as a kitten, lol. But my fever seems to be coming down, not having to take so much acetaminophen, thank goodness. Thanks for the good wishes!


Callie a lot of the weak crappy feeling is from dehydration [from the fever] So your on the right track drinking a lot. 2500 cc of liquids a day is what you should be drinking -soup sherbet and jello count as a liquid. They also give you a little boost. 

The flu is not giving up the ghost as of yet where Im at. We are still getting new cases everyday. Ive had more people coughing in my face the last four days at work than I care to think about. We are losing staff to it, it is not letting up a bit. If Im still flu free as of Tuesday Im counting it as a direct blessing from God. Im fortunatly off till Friday Hoping its run through the building by then. The local hospital is now closed to admissions. They are overwhelmed and diverting patients to other hospitals. The staff is falling vicitm too, so they simply cant provide the staff to cover the patients. They still have beds available but no nurses to care for the patients in those beds. The mortality rate is still low - which is the only bit of good news so far.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

Tamiflu has been shown to be USELESS, don't waste your money.

Cytokine storm?
From my research NO ONE can agree on what prevents a cytokine storm and what supports one. There are anti-echinacea, anti-elderberry anti-everything that lends a boost to the immune system (Astragalus, Pau d arco, Oregano) Then there are the Immune system stimulant lovers that stress strengthening the system once illness is seen. BUT what about the 1918 Spanish flu that took YOUNG, HEALTHY IMMUNE SYSTEM STRONG men and women?
So far most agree that we should focus on Anti-Virals, Garlic, Onion, Turmeric and Ginger being the most commonly found in our kitchen.

The press is so winky-----y in their fever to get stories out that fact checking isn't a priority. One woman says the flu virus can live outside the body for 8 to 10 hours, another person said it can only survive for minutes and today another said upwards of 24 hours....sheesh!


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

marinemomtatt said:


> Tamiflu has been shown to be USELESS, don't waste your money.


In what world? I know a dozen people who have taken it in the last few weeks and they all have gotten over the flu significantly faster than others (we're talking feeling better within 24 hours).


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

How long ago was Tamiflu developed? How many NEW strains of the flu virus are now in existance? How quickly does the virus mutate? 
Now, how effective is Tamiflu when you consider those questions? Is it truely worth $300?

LOTS to consider before spending so much money for what just 'might' be a placebo effect.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

marinemomtatt said:


> How long ago was Tamiflu developed? How many NEW strains of the flu virus are now in existance? How quickly does the virus mutate?
> Now, how effective is Tamiflu when you consider those questions? Is it truely worth $300?
> 
> LOTS to consider before spending so much money for what just 'might' be a placebo effect.


Tamiflu is not flu virus specific. It does not just attack certain strains of the flu but instead works against both strains A and B. 

I would say that for those who get the flu who are immunocompromised, $300 is worth it. Heck, for those who have had the flu that I have spoken to, they would have paid $300 in a heartbeat to get rid of the horrible flu they had. However, it MUST be given in the first 24-36 hours of symptom onset or else it won't be very effective.


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## marinemomtatt (Oct 8, 2006)

From my understanding...I may be wrong...Tamiflu was developed for use on folks who are NOT immunocompromised ( http://www.thefreedictionary.com/immunocompromised ), it is for those that were healthy BEFORE getting the flu.

Personally I'd keep the bucks in the bank and instead dose with 5 Thieves Vinegar, some prefer 4 thieves. (Apple cider vinegar, garlic, ginger, onion, horseradish, cayenne ;o} )


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

marinemomtatt said:


> From my understanding...I may be wrong...Tamiflu was developed for use on folks who are NOT immunocompromised ( http://www.thefreedictionary.com/immunocompromised ), it is for those that were healthy BEFORE getting the flu.


It is also used on those who are immunocompromised.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

Although I'm not quarantining myself, I chose not to go to church this morning nor will I go anywhere else this week where I'll be shut up with folks. Will need to go to the Post Office and quilt shop, but will not be around many people. Our local hospital is full (all 34 beds) with flu patients, so I've decided to minimize contact.


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## Annsni (Oct 27, 2006)

We went to church (no choice since hubby is the pastor!) but no kissing. Just hugs. And I put hand sanitizer at the Welcome Table.


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## Spinner (Jul 19, 2003)

In years gone by people wore gloves when they went out during flu season. If you notice a lot of pictures from the old days the ladies had gloves on. They were made to look pretty, but they weren't worn for style, they were for medical reasons. I remember having to wash my gloves every time we got home. We washed them in dish soap, then rinsed in bleach water and hung them in the sun to dry.


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## bama (Aug 21, 2011)

Just thought I would bump this up, as it has some good info IMO


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

There is a lot of variation in flu severity from year to year. A "bad" flu year is still a relatively mild manifestation of what a disease is capable of... when a pandemic reaches conditions that require extraordinary measures, such as SIP, it will be immediately obvious, IMO.


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## bama (Aug 21, 2011)

I guess my concern is that once it becomes obvious, it could be too late for me or mine


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## K.B. (Sep 7, 2012)

bama said:


> I guess my concern is that once it becomes obvious, it could be too late for me or mine


it is a possibility, but I think it is not very probable since you are paying attention and watching out for the signs. 

Based on the numbers of average deaths and significant morbidity due to flu in the US, imagine the signs of a 10-100 fold increase of a major shift in mortality. The impact on a region involved in an initial outbreak of a significantly more lethal strain will be severe and obvious. I think the rest of us that are watching will have time to hunker down. Just my opinion


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