# Immunizations & public schools



## AverageJo

My kids are wanting to go to public schools and I've heard there is a way out of getting all the immunizations by writing a letter stating that you don't do it for 'religious' reasons. Has anybody successfully done this? If so, please message me!! I do NOT agree with all the immunizations our schools are making mandatory, although we do some. Please help!!


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## kasilofhome

Contact school request vaccines exemption from fill it out.


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## AverageJo

I talked to the school nurse and there is no 'vaccine exemption form'. She said the only way around the school vaccine requirements was to get the doctor to sign off for health reasons (and I'm already fighting them on this) or write a letter for 'religious' reasons.


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## Danaus29

Good luck getting a doctor to sign off on any of them. They'll never recommend a child go without the battery of shots if the child has never had a reaction to any. Hard enough getting one that will excuse a certain shot due to the child's health.


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## kasilofhome

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...are-the-vaccine-exemption-laws-in-your-state/

http://ilga.gov/commission/jcar/admincode/077/077006950000300R.html

I deleted incorrect info... my mistake.


Hope this s helps.


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## farmrbrown

I posted on your other thread,


http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...599-schools-immunizations-how-get-around.html


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## AverageJo

Thank you for your help!! Just trying to find the right balance between the government's demands, my children's health as well as the children that they'll come into contact with. 

What I was looking for was the documents necessary to research this and go from here. Thank you all for being kind in this thread.


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## NEfarmgirl

We were caught in the middle of a vaccination mess while we were foster parents. The kids where not vaccinated and we were not warned of this before we took them. We had no legal say in it because we had no rights. The parents tried saying they did not vaccinate because of religious reasons and that did not hold up because they could not provide a religion that satisfied the state. The religion they practiced was very common and the problem was people that practice the same religion are vaccinated. The oldest was to start school and there ended up being a court order to vaccinate the kids. Most families here choose to homeschool because it is getting very difficult to even claim religious beliefs to not vaccinate. Good luck!


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## LOLPuertoRico

Nice to see that this is a much gentler thread. It is amazing how worked up people get over this subject. More often than not, it seems to be vaxers hurling insults and trying to degrade non-vaxers even though we're all just trying to do what we feel is best for our children. Whether it is childhood vaccinations or adult vaccinations, I think it is pretty scary when government and society can demand we inject foreign bodies into ourselves even if it be against our will. Especially considering the many societal "experiments" the government had done on groups over the years without their knowledge or consent.

Good luck to the OP and please keep us updated with the outcome.


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## doc-

A few points for rumination by parents unsure about vaccines:

-vaccines DO NOT cause autism. Period.
-bad reactions to vaccines are mostly limited to those allergic to eggs (used in producing the vaccine)

-some vaccines are really worth it: diphtheria & perutssis were common and KILLERS prior to vaccines. Polio was a devastating and common disease prior to vaccines. Now, all three are rare due to the widespread use of the vaccines. 

-German measles (rubella) caused many, many birth defects in pregnant woman who had not had the disease already. The advent of the vaccine made that a rarity. OTOH- measles (rubeola) and mumps are mild diseases and only those kids with bad immune systems have trouble with them. Those kids, sadly, can't have the vaccine anyways and are doomed to further problems. But since the MMR is a single shot, it's a moot point. Get it for your kids if you're worried about the infection and then you don't have to worry if other don't get theirs. No need for mandates.

-flu shots, hepatitis shots, HPV shots are all being pushed by BigPharm & BigBrother for pseudoscientific reasons. Follow the money.

-small pox was a nasty disease wiped out by world wide use of vaccines. If you're younger than BabyBoomer age, you probably didn't get the vaccine and don't have immunity. Samples of the live virus are kept in labs in the US and Russia. Can you imagine the devastation that will be wrought on the planet if they should be released into the wild? Who's gunna work to pay the taxes to keep the SS checks coming in the mail for us geezers that do have immunity? :shrug:


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## Lisa in WA

doc- said:


> A few points for rumination by parents unsure about vaccines:
> 
> -vaccines DO NOT cause autism. Period.
> -bad reactions to vaccines are mostly limited to those allergic to eggs (used in producing the vaccine)
> 
> -some vaccines are really worth it: diphtheria & perutssis were common and KILLERS prior to vaccines. Polio was a devastating and common disease prior to vaccines. Now, all three are rare due to the widespread use of the vaccines.
> 
> -German measles (rubella) caused many, many birth defects in pregnant woman who had not had the disease already. The advent of the vaccine made that a rarity. OTOH- measles (rubeola) and mumps are mild diseases and only those kids with bad immune systems have trouble with them. Those kids, sadly, can't have the vaccine anyways and are doomed to further problems. But since the MMR is a single shot, it's a moot point. Get it for your kids if you're worried about the infection and then you don't have to worry if other don't get theirs. No need for mandates.
> 
> -flu shots, hepatitis shots, HPV shots are all being pushed by BigPharm & BigBrother for pseudoscientific reasons. Follow the money.
> 
> -small pox was a nasty disease wiped out by world wide use of vaccines. If you're younger than BabyBoomer age, you probably didn't get the vaccine and don't have immunity. Samples of the live virus are kept in labs in the US and Russia. Can you imagine the devastation that will be wrought on the planet if they should be released into the wild? Who's gunna work to pay the taxes to keep the SS checks coming in the mail for us geezers that do have immunity? :shrug:


Just curious, Doc. Are you an actual MD?


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## LOLPuertoRico

No one, no doctor or any other human being, can say, without a doubt, that there is zero chance that vaccinations cause autism. Anyone who boldly states something like that immediately becomes suspect. 

Putting aside what vaccinations are ideally supposed to achieve, the bottom line is forcing anyone to inject themselves or their charges with anything against their will violates basic human rights. It is such a tired and silly argument when people try to force other people into doing what they want (vaccinating) by bullying or claiming herd protection. Do not talk to me about herd protection. If you are being vaccinated or vaccinating your children to protect you and them against diseases then that vaccine better darn well work well enough that you should not be affected by my choice to not vaccinate myself or my child.

On another vaccination thread on this site, someone asked if the OP was setting a good example by teaching her children to lie. Never-mind the fact that the person who posted such a question wants us to believe that they have never told a lie or never told a lie in front of their kids, I can answer that question in a hot Mississippi second; HECK YES! You do whatever it takes to keep your kids safe, including lie. The safety of your children comes before all else. When your kids are getting to that age where they are beginning to stay home alone, do you instruct them to LIE and say you're busy if a stranger comes to the door or do you tell them to be truthful to the stranger and tell them they are home alone? Uh-huh, thought so.

The other worn and tired retort from vaxers who don't want intentionally unvaccinated children in the schools is what about the safety of kids who have not been able to get vaccinated due to age or other reasons. Here's the thing: If you are so worried about your child catching something from my unvaccinated child then you may want to consider putting your kid in a bubble because, let me tell you, the minute they leave your home they are in contact with other people who pose just as much a threat as my unvaccinated child in school. Do you take your child to the grocery store, movies, restaurant, and EEK, the doctors office??? Did you know that adults are encouraged to re-up on their vaccinations? Do you know why? It is because the vaccinations wear off over time. So while you're trying to point a finger at my unvaccinated child, the fact of the matter is it could be anyone of any age in any place posing a viral threat to your child. My child may not be vaccinated but she is well versed on the importance of cleanliness which is one of the biggest deterrents to disease that there is.

I am of a certain age. I've seen so much domestic terrorism from inside my own country (USA) that I know better than to just trust government, groups, agencies, etc. just because they say so. From the FDA who approves things like aspartame for human consumption while blocking natural cures that save lives because they would rather fill their pockets to the many documented unethical government experiments performed on the public without their knowledge or consent. We're all homesteaders or aspiring homesteaders (like myself) so who hasn't heard of the many stories of FDA abuses illegally raiding small farms and destroying property? Who is not aware of the FDA backing Monsanto? Yet some still want to put all their faith in an institution which has demonstrated time and time again that their interest lies in money and power and not in the best interest of the citizens.

You say mandatory vaccinations are a good thing because "they" are just trying to protect people? Well, why don't "they" outlaw proven killers of people like tobacco and alcohol; two of the biggest non-natural killers of people? Thanks to Snowden and others like him, we are well aware of the shenanigans our government still gets up to these days and, yet, there are still people who will just drink the Kool aid and do what they are told...amazing.

I prefer to teach the importance of cleanliness and take my chances with Mother Nature. At least she doesn't have an agenda. Please know that I am not trying to offend anyone unlike the many people who go online hurling hateful insults at me and people like me who are only trying to do their best to raise happy and healthy kids. I was just so irked to see the OP attacked the way she was by people who may believe in herd protection but operate on a herd mentality unable to accept that some of us don't need to be told what to do by less than trustworthy sources. You will never see me go on a website about vaccinations and attack people, yet, a lot of vaxers tend to display a self-righteous attitude and feel perfectly OK with saying some really hateful and hurtful things to non-vaxers. Enough already. I respect your personal choice for your child because, like I said, we're all just trying to do the best we can. I don't think it is asking too much to expect the same in return.


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## BigHenTinyBrain

When you choose to not vaccinate you are making a decision for your family and your child. You are doing what you feel is best. When you send your unvaccinated child to public school (and you seem to be trying to find a way to do so even if you did not have a religious objection or health reason, but simply because you felt it was best) then you are making that decision for every other family, as well.

That seems objectionable to me. Your decision for your family is fine, but try to keep it to yourself instead of imposing it on my kids, also.

We actually considered unvaccinated kids to be a good reason to homeschool- in a state with very high non-vaccination rates and recent outbreaks of whooping cough and measles, we thought our kids would be better off not being exposed to, say, YOUR kids.


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## Laura Zone 5

Does anyone have a reliable statistic showing that unvaccinated children bring 'diseases' to school and infect vaccinated children?

That whole statement just sounds off.
How can my 'unvaccinated' child affect your vaccinated child? 
My kid could have raging mumps, but if your kid has had the vaccination, then it should be no big deal? 
AND if my unvaccinated child is the 'minority': lets say 100 kids, only 5 are not vaccinated, then only 5 kids will get the mumps......

Help me understand.


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## Belfrybat

I followed your other thread before it got derailed. It seems that your minister or other parents in your congregation would have already faced this and could guide you much better than "strangers" can. 

Actually, I curious which religion you belong to that opposes vaccinations? The only religion in the US that I know is still opposed to vaccinations is Christian Science. But they are opposed to all medical intervention. Even the Jehovah Witnesses now support vaccinations (but still stand fast on blood transfusions). Some ultra orthodox Jews oppose some vaccines, but not all. The same is true of Muslims -- only ISIS and the Taliban still oppose vaccinations on the belief the shots are designed to make their people sterile. 

Also, you mentioned in your other thread that you had your children vaccinated for some diseases. You might want to find out what specific vaccines are necessary to attend public school and only get those. In Texas it is a rather small number. Here's the Texas statute:



> *Education Code*
> CHAPTER 38. HEALTH AND SAFETY
> 
> Sec. 38.001. Immunization; Requirements; Exceptions.
> 
> (a) Each student shall be fully immunized against diphtheria, rubeola, rubella, mumps, tetanus, and poliomyelitis, except as provided by Subsection (c).
> 
> (b) Subject to Subsection (c), the Texas Board of Health may modify or delete any of the immunizations in Subsection (a) or may require immunizations against additional diseases as a requirement for admission to any elementary or secondary school.


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## LOLPuertoRico

Again no offense intended but if you find my unvaccinated child such a threat to your child who is supposedly protected from disease because of vaccinations then you should be the one to withdraw your child from the public education system. After all, we all pay taxes and to outright deny my child access is the equivalent of taxation without representation and didn't our country (USA) start a war over such unethical practices? If government and citizens insist on barring unvaccinated children then it would only make sense that families who choose not to vaccinate, and thus are barred from public schools, receive a tax credit or some effort be made to fund unvaccinated children's home-schooling costs.

It just seems so illogical the way people can be so tunnel visioned. Do you really believe that school is the only place your kids can be in contact with diseases and only by other children? If I may reiterate, your children may be exposed to diseases from anywhere and from anybody; not just from other children in school. They are exposed from people and unsterile surfices everywhere you go. YOU are a potential threat if you ever leave the house and come into contact with anyone or anything that may be harboring diseases. Please stop pretending my child is somehow a major threat. That is, obviously, not the case.



BigHenTinyBrain said:


> When you choose to not vaccinate you are making a decision for your family and your child. You are doing what you feel is best. When you send your unvaccinated child to public school (and you seem to be trying to find a way to do so even if you did not have a religious objection or health reason, but simply because you felt it was best) then you are making that decision for every other family, as well.
> 
> That seems objectionable to me. Your decision for your family is fine, but try to keep it to yourself instead of imposing it on my kids, also.
> 
> We actually considered unvaccinated kids to be a good reason to homeschool- in a state with very high non-vaccination rates and recent outbreaks of whooping cough and measles, we thought our kids would be better off not being exposed to, say, YOUR kids.


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## wannabfarmer

My wife and I have been tossing thus idea around also. 
Lolpuertorico: I agree with you about the tax credit. I feel if you have a child going to school you pay tax. When we owned our house in pa we had center city kids get dropped off and picked up everyday to go to our very expensive blue ribbon school. Their grandmother rented the house next to us so for the 5 kids being dropped off they get a top tier education for free! I know this is off topic of the vaccines but my main belief is that if someone trusts the "government medacine" then Y should it bother them if my non vaccinated child is around them? Don't get me wrong medacine is a miracle and when applied right can do wonders. The problem is our big brother government has a track record of doing whatever the F they want regardless of the individuals choice. 
The word choice is becoming more and more of a joke to our government.


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## BigHenTinyBrain

My town had a huge whooping cough outbreak 2 years ago. It began with a large family that chose to not vaccinate, had a sick kid and chose to let them go to school so no one had to miss work. It was a couple of months before the district stopped reporting newly infected kids. 

No, might not have been YOUR kid LolPuertoRico, but it might have been. If you want a tax credit, fine. But I'd like compensation for lost wages and doctor's visits. I don't think either of us will ever see a dime from one another.

My only point is, make your decision for your family. But don't expect to impose that decision on the whole neighborhood. Do you have the right to decide for everyone? No one should be forced to vaccinate their kids- but no one should be forced to be around unvaccinated kids, either. That's why my kids aren't exposed to your kids all day any more. 

By the by- a tax credit for unvaccinated homeschooled kids? What about the tax credit for community members with no kids, or the credit for people who don't have cars (thus not using the roads, plows, salt trucks) or people who never have house fires (not requiring the services of the fire department)...? That isn't how taxes work, sorry to say!


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## Laura Zone 5

BigHenTinyBrain said:


> My town had a huge whooping cough outbreak 2 years ago. It began with a large family that chose to not vaccinate, had a sick kid and chose to let them go to school so no one had to miss work. It was a couple of months before the district stopped reporting newly infected kids.


So.........if everyone was vaccinated, why did they get sick?
Only the 'unvaccinated' should have gotten sick?
Help me understand.


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## farmrbrown

Laura Zone 5 said:


> So.........if everyone was vaccinated, why did they get sick?
> Only the 'unvaccinated' should have gotten sick?
> Help me understand.


From the CDC.....

http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/about/faqs.html


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## gibbsgirl

Laura Zone 5 said:


> So.........if everyone was vaccinated, why did they get sick?
> Only the 'unvaccinated' should have gotten sick?
> Help me understand.


Exactly and amen!

And, I don't buy the herd mentality the way its presented at all. It's spun with bunk information the same way "vaccines work" is.

If you needed herd immunity to make vaccines work, then it's not the vaccines working, its the herd immunity minimizing the spread.

When people travel abroad, doctors can make recommendations for shots to get beforehand. People are told to get ones that are available to fight known diseases where they are traveling and frequently those places do not have herd immunity, but the vaccines are still expected to work.

The arguments for the vaccines and herd immunity and vaccine safety and effectiveness frequently remind me of listening to a conman who's trying to keep talking at you so fast and changing up the conversation because their house of cards will crumble at the slightest breeze.

My opinion anyway.


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## Laura Zone 5

farmrbrown said:


> From the CDC.....
> 
> http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/about/faqs.html


Great information!!

So my niece, who was vaccinated, who came down with whooping cough, did so because no vaccine is 100% fool proof, and her friend (also vaccinated) who GAVE it to her and was up to date (got the shot in April / May, came down w/ whooping cough in October) and got sick as a dog.

My unvaccinated daughter, was the nanny........spend days on end with my niece, caring for her, helping her w/ home work, cooking for her, etc.
Never got sick.
Praise the Lord!!!


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## farmrbrown

Yep, there's usually more to a story than what people like to repeat.

Another point that I haven't seen discussed much with childhood diseases was brought out by that link. Mothers passing immunity to infants.

It used to be well known that much of a mother's immunity was passed thru breastfeeding.
I know that's not always possible for everyone to do, but it's the exact same concept as herd immunity. We're mammals and we've always had herd immunity because of this long before vaccines.
Infants and the very young were protected when they were most vulnerable, and when they got old enough to be stronger, when they got the mumps, measles, chickenpox, they then got their lifetime immunity.

It's a whole lot easier to play the blame game than it is to assimilate and understand scientific data, facts and results.
Add the element of fear, and you see how easy it is to convince the masses that Big Brother knows best.


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## Ed Mashburn

good morning to all- I was a public school teacher for 37 years. I worked mainly in small rural schools in Arkansas, Missouri, and Alabama. I helped raise three kids with my wife. She was an RN in addition to being a school speech therapist. That's our backgrounds.
Before I make any statements, the one idea I want to put forth is this: There are NO decisions made by anyone which affect only the person making the decision. No matter what we decide to do, it will not affect just us- someone else always will be affected.
Now, about required immunizations. How could an unvaccinated child be a hazard to other kids? How about if one or more of the other kids is undergoing chemotherapy for cancer? Or under medication because of heart transplants with a severely compromised immune system? I've had both of these situation in classes I taught, and this situation is not unusual. There are many kids in school who are at risk from being infected with serious diseases from unvaccinated persons. How would you feel if your unvaccinated child shared a disease with a kid in his/her class and that other kid got really, really sick from it? Does your decision really mean that much?
On another point, in my family we had a young family member nearly die this summer from tetanus. His parents didn't"believe" in vaccinations, so the child was never vacinated, and he's still not out of the woods yet.
I believe in people making their own decisions, and I honor it, but as I said at the beginning, NO decision is made for just one- a decision affects lots of people- some who don't have the ability to make their own choices- like kids.
So, should all kids get tested and proven to be safe vaccinations before entering school? Absolutely. 
If you have a problem with this, there are always options.
good day to all- Ed Mashburn


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## Daniel Michael

Dr. Tim O'Shea even has a book by that title. They intentionally play these little word games to deceive people. A State-prepared exemption form is another deceptive document which not only uses the word immunizations, which is false, but also tricks the parent into agreeing with a statement that vaccines work and that they are doing something bad by not injecting their child with filth and poison. You don't have to use their forms anyway, just write your own exemption stating the facts. Vaccination is a religious practice btw, and "public schools" are religious assemblies.



AverageJo said:


> My kids are wanting to go to public schools and I've heard there is a way out of getting all the immunizations by writing a letter stating that you don't do it for 'religious' reasons. Has anybody successfully done this? If so, please message me!! I do NOT agree with all the immunizations our schools are making mandatory, although we do some. Please help!!


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## Ed Mashburn

Daniel Michael- with the best will in the world, I do not understand what you are saying. 
I'm sorry you feel the "government" is out to deceive and abuse you. To be quite honest, I don't think I -or you- are important enough to be worth the trouble for the "government" to go out of its way to abuse.
And if you don't want your children to be vaccinated, as I said earlier, there are always options.
As far as vaccinations being totally safe with no possible bad effects- there's no such thing as ANYTHING in this world being totally safe. Getting up in the morning is sometimes a dangerous undertaking.
But I always slept better knowing that I had done everything possible to insure that my kids were as safe and protected as humanly possible against infectious diseases.
And I really don't understand your statement about public schools being religious operations- not the schools I worked at, anyway.
Good day to all- Ed Mashburn


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## FarmFamily

I didn't read all the replies so this may or may not be helpful to you... Immunizations are going to be difficult for you to get around in a public or private school setting. Are you currently homeschooling and your children desire to be in public school? If so what is it about public school that makes them want to go that route? Activities... Friends and socializing...?? Have you considered a homeschool co-op? This may satisfy your children's needs/desires while still allowing you to stay true to your personal beliefs/convictions. Good luck!


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## Darren

Anyone interested in a connection between autism and vaccines should read the book _Neurotribes_. It covers the history and explains why we see more autism today. It goes to the definition. Read the book. You'll never look at medicine the same way again.


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## Lisa in WA

Darren said:


> Anyone interested in a connection between autism and vaccines should read the book _Neurotribes_. It covers the history and explains why we see more autism today. It goes to the definition. Read the book. You'll never look at medicine the same way again.


Looks interesting:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/books/review/neurotribes-by-steve-silberman.html?_r=0


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## Darren

basketti said:


> Looks interesting:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/books/review/neurotribes-by-steve-silberman.html?_r=0


It's excellent. We're not having an epidemic of autism. It's always been there. We haven't had the tools to recognize it nor understand what it really is. The book makes the case that autisism is often of great benefit to mankind.


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## doc-

More importantly, school districts get extra govt money for each kid with "special needs" like autism or my favorite ADHD. Now, if you don't sit like a statue and squirm a little on that hard wooden desk seat, you are diagnosed as "hyperactive" and the school gets a windfall. Your tax money at work for you.


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## SLFarmMI

doc- said:


> More importantly, school districts get extra govt money for each kid with "special needs" like autism or my favorite ADHD. Now, if you don't sit like a statue and squirm a little on that hard wooden desk seat, you are diagnosed as "hyperactive" and the school gets a windfall. Your tax money at work for you.


Not exactly. Yes, there are some additional federal funds designated for the special education population. No, it isn't a windfall. The extra services that these kids require (physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech, resource room, categorical classrooms to name a few) require money from the district's budget. Regarding ADHD -- that is a medical diagnosis. Very, very few children in my experience who only have ADHD qualify for special education services. Their ADHD is co-morbid with another disability. If a student only has ADHD, it would have to be extreme in order for them to receive services and it would be way, way beyond "squirming a little". 

Your post also seems to imply that you believe schools are pushing certification of students to reap this magical "windfall". That is absolutely not true, in my experience. There are certain criteria that must be met in order for special certification. It also takes a great deal of time and an incredible amount of paperwork so school personnel are not attempting to certify students on a whim.


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