# Google Solar



## Harry Chickpea (Dec 19, 2008)

Could be a way for a few folks to go off-grid?

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20110927/D9Q108180.html


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

No, this will be grid tied only.

And as much as I'm for solar, and would like to see it expand, I would not want to lock myself into a long term contract ( which is, I assume, the only way they are gonna do this ) unless they guarantee a locked in price on the electric rate.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

By the way, the power guy just read our meter a few minutes ago....we bought 412kw/hrs this past month, and produced 358.....the way TVA pays on solar, that should result in a slightly negative bill.

I hope to bring my new array online in a few days, and up that 358 number considerably next month.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Could be a sweet deal... read a few articles on the program.

The sweet would be the fact that the system is here, on site, and if the shtf happens, they'd stay here. Oh, I would walk the mile up to the mailbox and write a check and put it in the mail... of course, post-teotwawki doubt if the mailman would actually show up.

Personally, I'd want to get a battery backup added to the system, just in case the grid 'goes away and stays'.... otherwise it's all just a waste of time.


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Texican, although I agree about the SHTF situation, the problem with a grid tie ONLY system is about the only thing you could use out of it for an off grid system is the panels themselves...you'd still need a charge controller(s), battery bank, and off grid type inverter to make AC ( assuming you want AC ).

Even trying to use the panels directly might be 'iffy', since they could be a weird voltage that wasn't even close to something you could use for a 12v system....in a grid tie ONLY system, they use about anything in the way of panel voltage and string them together to get 300-600v to the inverter ( lot of grid tie ONLY inverters won't even 'fire' up below 250v DC input ).

SO, if you're thinking is along that line ( as mine is too ), you'd need to put in a small, separate system at a minimum, to produce line quality AC, then back feed that to the grid tie only inverter to "fool" in into 'thinking' the grid was still up so it would not go into shut down mode.....then re-route the output only to you, and not the neighbors.... 

Let's just say it would take some 'creative' electrical cobbling.....ahahahaaaa


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

Andy, your always thinking aren't you ? Love it


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## TnAndy (Sep 15, 2005)

Like a white lab rat, Nadja.......ahahahaaa..


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## Raven12 (Mar 5, 2011)

TnAndy said:


> No, this will be grid tied only.
> 
> And as much as I'm for solar, and would like to see it expand, I would not want to lock myself into a long term contract ( which is, I assume, the only way they are gonna do this ) unless they guarantee a locked in price on the electric rate.


I was thinking along the lines of what's the catch? It is one of those sounds too good to be true situations.


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## nadja (May 22, 2011)

Not really, Andy is very correct and cunning I might add. Lets say they put 20 - 235 watt panels on your roof. Well, you could unwire or rewire say 12 of them to come down a seperate set of wires, where you could wire them into your outback mxpp or what ever charge controller, control the voltage that way and then feed it into your inverter,. Of course you would NOT want it all in the same service box (breaker box) as that would be a possible fatal mistake on your part. But you could run most of your house this way and only the high power draw items remain "hooked" up to your service box that the double meters are on. It would look pretty much "normal" to the power mongers, especially the meter readers. Just my thoughts


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## wy_white_wolf (Oct 14, 2004)

Raven12 said:


> I was thinking along the lines of what's the catch? It is one of those sounds too good to be true situations.


http://solarleasedisadvantages.com/

This may be a little biased but it gives you an idea of the downside to leases


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## Bluesgal (Jun 17, 2011)

TnAndy said:


> Texican, although I agree about the SHTF situation, the problem with a grid tie ONLY system is about the only thing you could use out of it for an off grid system is the panels themselves...you'd still need a charge controller(s), battery bank, and off grid type inverter to make AC ( assuming you want AC ).
> 
> Even trying to use the panels directly might be 'iffy', since they could be a weird voltage that wasn't even close to something you could use for a 12v system....in a grid tie ONLY system, they use about anything in the way of panel voltage and string them together to get 300-600v to the inverter ( lot of grid tie ONLY inverters won't even 'fire' up below 250v DC input ).
> 
> ...


This has been my hang up as well. All the "big guys" that do solar (i.e. the solar city guys) will only install a system that is grid tied and shuts down if the grid does.I understand why the system work and shuts down if the grid does, but to me that's when I'll need the solar poer MOST. 

I've been working with an electrician friend of mine to try and figure out how to design a "bypass" to be able to run most of the house in the event of a grid failure. I'm expecting to at least need a second panel and inverter which will certainly increase the cost of the installation. Batteries are too expensive for a "just in case" situation and we figure being in the SW we get enough daily sunlight that I can keep the refrigeration units for the food cool if I don't open the doors at night when the power is off.

I'm certainly open to suggestions about this and would welcome any input you guys may have on how to achieve this. Thanks.

Adding: The system would a "self" design not one of the "packages" that the solarcity type guys suggest. So equipment ideas are welcome as well.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

TnAndy said:


> Texican, although I agree about the SHTF situation, the problem with a grid tie ONLY system is about the only thing you could use out of it for an off grid system is the panels themselves...you'd still need a charge controller(s), battery bank, and off grid type inverter to make AC ( assuming you want AC ).
> 
> Even trying to use the panels directly might be 'iffy', since they could be a weird voltage that wasn't even close to something you could use for a 12v system....in a grid tie ONLY system, they use about anything in the way of panel voltage and string them together to get 300-600v to the inverter ( lot of grid tie ONLY inverters won't even 'fire' up below 250v DC input ).
> 
> ...


That's where I was thinking also...

I could probably 'live with' it being grid tied, as long as there is such a thing as the grid. If the grid went bye-bye, I'd disconnect the 'strange' and unwanted voltages, make em all feed into a large controller, to power a 24 or 48v bank, and then to an inverter for the 120vac.

I spent 13 years here, completely off grid, and have kept all my equipment. If I "did" get google solar, believe I'd also, on the side, get a controller to handle all that power, a larger inverter (most of my gear ran off of 12vdc, but did have a pure sine wave inverter for some special electronics that I couldn't get in 12vdc) and a larger battery bank. If the grid went away, I could rewire it all to suit my needs.

I've been off grid for a decade now, and I always get confused when I look at my creative panels and safety shutoffs in my utility room. I'd probably have to spend a day or two refiguring out exactly how/why/what all of those doodads connect/work up....

30, 40K worth of panels is way beyond my reach. 5K worth of batteries, new controller, possibly larger inverter.... way doable.


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## SolarGary (Sep 8, 2005)

Bluesgal said:


> ...
> I've been working with an electrician friend of mine to try and figure out how to design a "bypass" to be able to run most of the house in the event of a grid failure. I'm expecting to at least need a second panel and inverter which will certainly increase the cost of the installation. Batteries are too expensive for a "just in case" situation and we figure being in the SW we get enough daily sunlight that I can keep the refrigeration units for the food cool if I don't open the doors at night when the power is off.
> 
> I'm certainly open to suggestions about this and would welcome any input you guys may have on how to achieve this. Thanks.
> ...


Hi,
I'm at the last part of a simpler but cruder way of using my grid tie system during emergencies. 
I have an ElecTrak electric tractor with a battery pack of 6 golf cart batteries. I have a good sized inverter/charger for it, so it can make 120VAC. In an emergency, I'll just use the ElecTrak pack with its inverter to power 120VAC loads in the house with extension cords -- seems like for an emergency you only need a few things to run.

For charging the battery pack with the grid tie array, I got an Xantrex 150 charge controller. This kind of charge controller takes a very wide variety of PV panels in strings of 2 or 3, with multiple of the strings in parallel.
So, I have to reconnect some of the MC4 connectors on the PV panels to put make strings, but this looks very straightforward to do.

I have it all set up and ready to go -- I'm just waiting for a good time to actually test it.

Its a pretty simple way to go, and the only expense for was the Xantrex charge controller at $480. Outback makes similar FLEX charge controller.

PDRiverman has described some even simpler systems using a golf cart battery pack.

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If you think about permanently converting a grid tie system into an off grid system, basically the only part of the grid tie system you lose (waste) is the inverter. You end up throwing away the inverter, then buying a battery pack, charge controller, and new inverter -- but, you would have had to buy all those anyway if you had started with an off grid system.

For me the deal breaker for having a battery backup gridtie or pure off grid system was the cost of maintaining the batteries. It looked me that battery replacement over time just about eats up the money you save on power. That was a little too hard to swallow for me.

Gary


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