# tricks at burning green wood



## Paul Wheaton

So here I am in a new place and I don't have near enough wood in. 

And what I do have is wet. Or green.

And it has been raining to beat the band here for weeks. So even if I find the driest snag around, it's still gonna be wet. 

So I'm shoring up on my strategies for burning green/wet wood. 

I know that I need a super hot fire every day in order to burn out any potential creosote. I have that covered. 

I've been working on trying to get a fire started in the morning with the smallest, driest wood and then tossing in the lousier stuff later in the day. 

I've build a huge wood rack and keep it near the woodstove in the hopes that it will dry wood a bit for the next day. 

I am tempted to come up with some metal to put on top of the stove that will allow me keep a stove load of wood directly above the wood stove. My thinking is that if it touches the woodstove, that would be too hot and could ignite. But with a couple of inches, that might be enough to not ignite. But my heebie jeebie factor is too high so far. I'm wondering if anybody has any advice about something along these lines: something where today's fire can dry out some wood for tomorrow morning.


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## gideonprime

We would put wet wood under the stove (it stands on legs) and next to the stove and burn it when it was drier. I recall as a kid bringing in wood that had ice and snow on it from the end of the wood pile and putting it near the stove to shed its excess moisture.

Never had any of the wood under the stove scorch or burn (until we put it in the stove that is).

Also, I recall leaning wet wood against the stove for short periods of time to help it dry.
I am sure there are people out there right now reading this and saying "Moron is lucky the house didn't burn up", but we never had a problem with in the house.


The nice thing about green wood is it takes forever to burn while seasoned wood will burn up quicker than money in vegas.


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## -TWO-

Wood dries alot faster if the pieces are stood on end.


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## fishhead

I always filled my basement to the ceiling so any remaining moisture would be long gone by the time it went into the stove. If you can I would bring in as much as possible.


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## cfabe

One tip I've found out to help getting fires started, particularly if you don't have great kindling is to buy some of those manufactured firelogs (duraflame) and cut them into smaller chunks. I used to use one chunk of that and some smaller logs to start the fire, no real kindling at all. Seemed to work well.


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## shellyr44

We have a wood cook stove and scrounged some burner grates from an old gas stove. When the wood is damp or wet we put pieces on the grates farthest from the fire and let them dry. Of course we do this only when we are awake and can keep an eye on them. We also stack small piles around the stove to dry up the wood.


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## Silvercreek Farmer

I would say cut and split as much as you can and get it under cover as fast as you can. I have found that any drying time is better than none, even a week of seasoning seems to help. Split it small. There are some species which burn better green than others, namely ash, get it if you can, stay away from the oaks.

Any short term drying (ie a week on the porch, or 3 hours under the stove) will probably not add too much to the heat value of the wood (which is vastly improved with proper seasoning), but may dry out the outside enough to facilitate the initial ignition(preventing you from beating your head against the wall).


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## Old Vet

cfabe said:


> One tip I've found out to help getting fires started, particularly if you don't have great kindling is to buy some of those manufactured firelogs (duraflame) and cut them into smaller chunks. I used to use one chunk of that and some smaller logs to start the fire, no real kindling at all. Seemed to work well.


You can make your own fire starters by placing cotton ball or two in a empty egg cartion and fill the hole with wax or paraffin put one of them in your stove and light it and you will have a blaze in no time.


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## fishhead

Studies have shown that wood dries out 10x faster through the ends of the wood than through the sides. That makes sense considering that wood is actually a bundle of straws.
You can see it in action sometimes by watching the water boil out of the ends of wood in the fire.

To take advantage of that position your wood with the end towards the stove.


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## wyld thang

we've used green oak, split it up and set it on end on top of the stove--but not if the stove is running hot(then it starts to smolder)

if the wood is just wet, you caN split it and it will be dry inside(unless it's rotten). I always keep a bucket of dry kindling inside. set wet wood on end around the stove like people said. really it's no big deal, it will dry out faster than you think.


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## Laci

Gideon, I started reading this phrase, and thought, "wow, if I said that, I know someone would call me an idiot, an accident waiting to happen". Then I read the next line and about drowned in a drink I was taking, lol. But, in our house today (as well as all the years I was growing up), we lean wood against the woodstove to dry. Obviously, we watch it so we don't burn up, lol. 

Great thread, I was in the same situation last year, and since we're short on money this year, and don't have ready access to cutting our own wood, we're not in a much better situation this year. Thankfully, my husband works at a job where they throw copious amounts of pallet wood ends away daily, so he just brings lots and lots of pallet wood home to burn. We save nice, well seasoned wood for the evenings, and burn the think pallet wood durning the day, when we are more apt to pay attention. Lots of the pallet wood has been kiln dried, so makes great kindling. Hit up your local factories, and building sites for pallet wood. Around here, it tends to not be treated (guess it costs too much to treat it, thankfully!). 

Marcy

"Also, I recall leaning wet wood against the stove for short periods of time to help it dry.
I am sure there are people out there right now reading this and saying "Moron is lucky the house didn't burn up", but we never had a problem with in the house."


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## zukgod

I live in Wa also, go to the local Home Depot or lowes and pick up some of there free palets. Use those to get your fire hot then toss your wood in there and it will burn. I would chop your wood as small as possible or it won't dry before summer. If you find a snag in the woods it will be dry no matter how wet it looks. Let me know if you need help.

Josh


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## MorrisonCorner

Ok, someone has to say this because this thread is surely being read by someone using wood for the first time this season and thinking "cool, I can burn whatever!"

BURNING GREEN WOOD IS DANGEROUS AND YOU CAN BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN.

Burning green wood as anything less than a percentage of the wood in the box and lowering the draft so it "smolders" is coating the pipe with creosote. Creosote is a highly flammable, explosive, substance which, if it ignites in the chimney pipe, will burn so hot the fire can crack a chimney or simply ignite the wood/roof around the pipe. People's houses will burn down this winter when creosote ignites because it will go up so quickly there isn't a prayer the fire department will get to you in time.

If you burn green wood you must clean your chimney "regularly." And in the years I've burned green that means I've cleaned that chimney once a week. If you're not prepared to clean every week or two then reconsider the green wood thing. Or put the fire department on speed dial.

This winter, in some areas, dry wood is going to be at an an absolute premium, and scrap wood (the pallet suggestion) is going to go to the most aggressive scrounger. So a lot of people are going to be considering burning wood that they might not ordinarily have thrown into a stove. 

Burn hot, burn clean, and check the pipe regularly.

And since you are burning wet this winter, and obviously aware that that is an issue, spend the winter gathering wood so you don't have to do this again next winter.


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## Wisconsin Ann

One thing we've been doing with the fresh cut wood (had a couple of trees that had to come down last fall, and used them up over winter) was to put in 2 chunks of dry wood to burn first, then a chunk of green on the top. (we have a franklin type woodburner). by the time the dry wood was almost done burning, the former green wood was dry and burned nicely. Worked REALLY well over nights. a layer of dry, with green wood stacked on top.

Also, the greenwood was kept inside in a corner near the stove, the dry wood could be kept stacked outside the door.


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## Pouncer

Creosote is a real danger.....I agree with that completely.

We bought and installed a new wood stove this summer and have been using it for primary heating since. All the logs we got were fairly green, and it's been a serious chore to cut, split and stack it. 

Up here, we have birch and spruce. Our answer to having a large, uncovered wood pile is stacking the splits so that the bark is always up. This helps shed rain and snow-my husband grew up on wood heat in the Fairbanks area, and this is how they did it all winter long. We have built a wood box in the garage that will hold just over about a weeks' worth, this gives it time to dry a little more as it certainly has been raining a lot this fall.

We are very very careful to make sure we get the fire really blazing at least once per day. Our stack is straight up, the stove is a new Blaze King that works on convection action, and so far...when we clean (once every two weeks) we get less than half a cup. Spruce is the creosote builder up here, so we use that sparingly for getting a fire up in a hurry. I am still playing around with the settings on it so that I will have a good bank of coals when I get home from work-about 12 hours after loading it in the morning.


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## wyld thang

yeah on creosote etc, but sometimes you gotta work with what you have, and there are tricks to getting by--like people said, cut the green stuff smaller, dry it out good indoors using your weapon of choice. 

OP is in WA, what kind of wood are you using? If you can get a variety that really helps. You probably have a lot of fir--that's real pitchy and more creosoty, but good (when seasoned to get fires going and will burn hot and fast. If it's green it's a ***** to get going. Get some maple, oak if you can--we've managed to burn those green. Ash is fine green. Keep an eye or ear to the pipe, get the tools to clean it yourself. 

If you can learn to make fire in the Pacific Northwet, you're doing good!


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## wyld thang

here's an article from a gazillion years ago you might have fun reading
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archiv...2DE133DE034BC4E51DFB467838E649FDE&oref=slogin


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## Paul Wheaton

Wow! This is a lot of excellent information!

I really like the info on standing wood on end. It makes me think that I need to completely redesign how I store my wood. At least for this fall.

I guess I don't have the nerve to put wood on top of the stove, even if there is a bit of a buffer between the stove and the wood. Just too risky. 

I think I am going to try to keep some of the wood a little closer to the stove to dry. On it's end.

As for the concerns about creosote: my understanding (nearly all of which has come from conversations on this forum in years past) is that if you burn a VERY hot fire once a week, you are quite safe. I've been burning one super hot fire each day I burn. If this is less than accurate, I would really like to hear more.

As for getting pallets and the like at home depot: my current rig doesn't facilitate that sort of thing very well. But I did spot some free scrap lumber once and filled up with that. That sure helped with getting fires started. Once a fire is started, I could throw wetter/greener stuff in and still keep a hot fire going.

Snags: I have my eye on a couple. I'm going to bring them in soon.

As for wood that we are using right now. One is an unknown broadleaf that was on its side and covered with moss. Another was a cottonwood that recently fell over. We recently took down a dying maple that we have almost all cut and stacked - but that wood is just too green still.

I have to say that one of the most useful things in this situation has been canned air. I bought a four pack at costco a few years ago. And there they sat, untouched for years. So now I've finished one can. And nothing makes a weak fire blaze like canned air. I tried the hair dryer with the "no heat" setting - it just fills the room with smoke and ash. The neat thing with the canned air is that it seems to have a really excellent focus point. I suppose a small air compressor might do even better.


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## scorpian5

If you are burning green wood that is creating creosote in your chimney why would you burn a HOT fire once a week or day or whatever and increase the chance of a chimney fire? Around here if you are in need of dry wood go to the woods find a dead still standing (most likely elm) cut it split it burn it. There is to much to lose burning green wood


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## Paul Wheaton

Seems to me that I've read here at least a dozen times that you want to burn a really hot fire to burn all of the creosote out. If you have 40 cold fires and then a hot one, then you build up a lot of creosote and then when it burns things can go really bad. If you have 4 cold fires and then a hot one, you've built up only a little creosote and when it burns, it's no big deal.


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## marinemomtatt

Cottonwood?!
Yikes!
We were given several Cottonwood trees two years ago, burned it last year...can you say NO HEAT!!! I about froze last winter until we got back to the Pine and Cherry in the woodshed.
The remainder of the Cottonwood (that didn't get split) has been left for birds and mice.


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## ksfarmer

MorrisonCorner said:


> Ok, someone has to say this because this thread is surely being read by someone using wood for the first time this season and thinking "cool, I can burn whatever!"
> 
> BURNING GREEN WOOD IS DANGEROUS AND YOU CAN BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN.
> 
> Burning green wood as anything less than a percentage of the wood in the box and lowering the draft so it "smolders" is coating the pipe with creosote. Creosote is a highly flammable, explosive, substance which, if it ignites in the chimney pipe, will burn so hot the fire can crack a chimney or simply ignite the wood/roof around the pipe. People's houses will burn down this winter when creosote ignites because it will go up so quickly there isn't a prayer the fire department will get to you in time.
> 
> Burn hot, burn clean, and check the pipe regularly.
> 
> And since you are burning wet this winter, and obviously aware that that is an issue, spend the winter gathering wood so you don't have to do this again next winter.


:bash:

Please, everyone, pay attention to this poster. A chimney fire is not a fun thing. A chimney fire will sound like a jet engine and fire and sparks will fly out the top of the pipe and land on the roof. Find dry , seasoned wood to burn and if you need to use green wood, cut it this year to use next year.
:hobbyhors


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## Paul Wheaton

Yes, I am also concerned about chimney fires. 

And I'm glad that you have ready access to dry wood.

I hope to get dry wood soon. Maybe when it stops pouring rain and I get a bit of time off from work. 

Since I've burned a lot of green wood, and I have never experienced a chimney fire, I'm not sure if I'm safely burning green wood (which so far, I think I am) or if I may be sitting on a powder keg (I think you are leaning to the latter).

My understanding is that creosote is built up whether you use green wood or dry wood - that the real creosote builder is cooler fires. But by running really hot fires, you burn all of the creosote out of your chimney. All of it. No creosote means no chimney fire, right? 

Are you saying that a really hot fire doesn't get rid of creosote? Or that it doesn't get rid of all of it? Or, perhaps you are saying that there is something other than creosote to be concerned with?


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## scorpian5

Your chimney should only have a light coating of creosote but it all depends on your draft and other factors.My farther had a chimney fire years ago that cracked his liner and outer cement bricks he was glad there was snow on the roof at the time. I burn some green wood in my boiler but prefer it dry. You can see in this pic the creosote that came out of the horizontal pipe when i burned some walnut that seemed dry







I also have a pic of my chimney that i just took it did not need cleaning last winter and the only pipe i will clean i the one inside.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE

cut the wood short 8 -10 inches it will split easier and then get it under cover as soon as you can like they said a lot of the drying happens from the ends so less distance between ends the better , i haven't much experience with the burning of green or wet but whne i have logs that don't want to split i cut them short about 8 inches and then they split into chunks fairly easily 

but i notice a big difference in wood that was covered vs uncovered unless it has been dry (no rain) for atleast a week , my advise is elevate , like with pallets and tarp it as soon as possable , even if it is not split yet try to get it off the ground even if it is sitting on concrete it keeps it's ,moisture much more than eleivated on a pallet 

if you can keep a few days supply in the house that will help atleast to get the outside dry 

idealy you should have flames unless it is to coals


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## wyld thang

isn't creosote more likely to build up the more bends you have in the pipe? We have a straight up pipe and clean our pipe once a year and never get a lot of junk out of it, even though we make a super hot fire only very occasionally and also sometimes burn green wood(one year we burned more green oak and ash and there still wasnt' much build up to clean out). Also, we never burn fir slow(cuz it won't)--just the oak and ash goes slow.


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## Use Less

A super-hot fire does clear out creosote, but depending on the internal structure of your walls, how well the access for the chimney is separated from same, you could be overheating the surrounding wood, altering its nature and making it extremely more susceptible to catching on fire inside the walls. Be cautious!! Sue


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## Goat Servant

Marinemomtatt is right about cotton wood! It practically burns cold. 
Dont waste your time even looking at it. 
I also remember that horrible thunderous whoosh in the chimney. Cant say if it was from cottonwood cause in those days I cheated and turned on the floor furnace.


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## DixyDoodle

You guys are CRAZY!......said with respect and in a friendly tone!  I used to work for the fire prevention office at our local FD and have seen so many burned down houses from woodstove fires; they are horrifying! 

I would NEVER burn green wood or *gasp* stack wood up against a stove to dry it. You're asking for a fire that will burn your house down. Your house, belongings, maybe your pets, or God forbid, family could be lost in that fire you caused just to "save a few bucks".

You know how many times people have come in to the FPO after a fire and said, "I did it for years and it was ok"? Hardly anyone loses a house to a wood fire the FIRST time they don't heed warnings.....it's the LAST one that counts. I don't know anyone who ever made a mistake like that, that ever did it again after they lost their home, insured or not. Many would not ever even install a wood burning appliance again.

I know, you will probably say I'm a fearmonger, but you're talking about your house and family's safety. You know what burns even better and quicker than dry wood? _Your home._ Why risk it?

(Preaching over. LOL)

I was always told not to store any wood in the basement. Wood that is not dry will produce moisture in the air that is not good for the basement (ie, may contribute to rot). Or vice versa, if your basement is damp (noticeable or not), you wood will not dry as easily. Also, you may be introducing not only mice, but possibly wood-eating vermin (termites, ants) into your home.


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## stanb999

Now for the real info on wood burning and creosote.


All wood fires produce Creosote period. The dryness or wetness has nothing to do with the amount produced. Soft woods in fact produce less than hardwoods. Pine for instance will produce about half of the beloved Oak.

So what is the difference? Well it's very simple. Creosote is the precipitate out of wood smoke that starts just above the steam point of water about 220F or so. The denser the smoke the lower the precipitation point. 

Now to burning wet v/s dry wood. Well we all know how it's harder to get wet wood burning hot, Right? Well this lack of heat causes the chimney to be below the critical precipitation temp. This causes the buildup. But so does burning the driest wood in a smoldering fire. 


To prevent creosote buildup and the associated chimney fires....

1. Never burn a cold fire. If you need less heat put in less wood.

2. Have an insulated chimney. This will maintain the smoke temp longer.

3. Provide maintenance to the stove and chimney to see it's all clean and in working order.

4. **** Burn Hot at every firing. Each and every time you load the stove you should bring the stove up to full temp to be sure the chimney is hot. **** Then you can slow the fire down slightly to lengthen the burn time.


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## fin29

stanb999 said:


> To prevent creosote buildup and the associated chimney fires....
> 
> 1. Never burn a cold fire. If you need less heat put in less wood.
> 
> 2. Have an insulated chimney. This will maintain the smoke temp longer.
> 
> 3. Provide maintenance to the stove and chimney to see it's all clean and in working order.
> 
> 4. **** Burn Hot at every firing. Each and every time you load the stove you should bring the stove up to full temp to be sure the chimney is hot. **** Then you can slow the fire down slightly to lengthen the burn time.


Can you expand on this a little...as in how I know I'm doing what you're suggesting? Should I get a thermometer for the stove, the stovepipe, or both? I have SS insulated stovepipe from the outlet on the stove all the way to the roof. What's the ideal temp for the stovepipe and/or the stove?

Can you also explain what a cold fire is? I always thought that in the morning you make a rager for about an hour and then load the stove up, lower the draft, and keep it flickering all day. Then at night, you load the stove up to the top, turn the draft down again and let it go low and slow all night. Am I wrong or is there a difference between older stoves and the newer airtight models like mine?


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## Cabin Fever

stanb999 said:


> Now for the real info on wood burning and creosote.
> 
> 
> All wood fires produce Creosote period. The dryness or wetness has nothing to do with the amount produced. Soft woods in fact produce less than hardwoods. Pine for instance will produce about half of the beloved Oak.
> 
> So what is the difference? Well it's very simple. Creosote is the precipitate out of wood smoke that starts just above the steam point of water about 220F or so. The denser the smoke the lower the precipitation point.
> 
> Now to burning wet v/s dry wood. Well we all know how it's harder to get wet wood burning hot, Right? Well this lack of heat causes the chimney to be below the critical precipitation temp. This causes the buildup. But so does burning the driest wood in a smoldering fire.
> 
> 
> To prevent creosote buildup and the associated chimney fires....
> 
> 1. Never burn a cold fire. If you need less heat put in less wood.
> 
> 2. Have an insulated chimney. This will maintain the smoke temp longer.
> 
> 3. Provide maintenance to the stove and chimney to see it's all clean and in working order.
> 
> 4. **** Burn Hot at every firing. Each and every time you load the stove you should bring the stove up to full temp to be sure the chimney is hot. **** Then you can slow the fire down slightly to lengthen the burn time.


I've burned firewood for over three decades and agree fully with everything Stan has written. The key to minimizing creosote buildup is to keep the chimney temp high enough to keep water vapor from condensing.

One way that you will know that creosote is building up in your chimney is if the inside of your firebox is black and glossly after a cool, slow fire. In other words, if creosote is building up inside of the firebox it is certainly building up inside your chimney.


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## stanb999

fin29 said:


> Can you expand on this a little...as in how I know I'm doing what you're suggesting? Should I get a thermometer for the stove, the stovepipe, or both? I have SS insulated stovepipe from the outlet on the stove all the way to the roof. What's the ideal temp for the stovepipe and/or the stove?
> 
> 
> Well if you have a "modern stove" and you use dry wood. You can't burn it wrong. It wont let you. So don't worry.
> 
> Can you also explain what a cold fire is? I always thought that in the morning you make a rager for about an hour and then load the stove up, lower the draft, and keep it flickering all day. Then at night, you load the stove up to the top, turn the draft down again and let it go low and slow all night. Am I wrong or is there a difference between older stoves and the newer airtight models like mine?



Well how to explain....

First your probably doing it right in the morning. You load the stove and get it hot. Then you can slow it to where you maintain the secondary burn. This is critical. You must keep good flame. With the "overnight" burn. Well you should do it the same as the fire during the day. In fact you should be setting it at the same burn rate always. You adjust the burn time/ heat out put buy the amount of wood you put in the stove not the draft control. The draft is to slow only a really hot fire, Not to make a cold flickering one.


Here are a few tips to get longer, cleaner burns. 

Use larger pieces (only in a hot fire), thicker pieces take longer to burn. Place them side to side instead of front to back(If your main draft is in the front. Some models have a side draft. If this is the case place them front to back.) 

Use batch loading. Fill the stove. Then allow it to burn down fully. Don't add a piece or two every hour or two.

Realize that your stove will only give about 8 hrs(some may give 6 or some may give 10) of good heat. So be sure to tend the fire as needed. Wood heat isn't a furnace so it's going to have hot and cold cycles. This is what makes them feel so warm and comforting. When they are fired in a cool house. 

P.S. I only heat with wood, No furnace here. So, yes we have heat cycles.


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## Pouncer

Stan is correct in his decription. My brand new stove has a built in thermostat that plainly shows the "safe" operating range for that load. It also has an adjustable damper and a mechanical one-both of which can be adjusted for the fire in the box.

Each and every load (morning and night) I have to make sure it's in the safe operating range before setting the dampers for the day/evening. If I do it correctly, I have a really good bed of very hot coals the next time around-and it only takes a short while to get the new load of wood into safe operating range. 

Here's what we have...the Ultra, based on size:

http://www.blazeking.com/Stoves/king1107.html


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## fin29

Cabin Fever said:


> The key to minimizing creosote buildup is to keep the chimney temp high enough to keep water vapor from condensing.
> 
> .


So with an insulated chimney that gets warm to the touch but not hot, how do you know your chimney is hot enough to prevent buildup?


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## stanb999

fin29 said:


> So with an insulated chimney that gets warm to the touch but not hot, how do you know your chimney is hot enough to prevent buildup?


Fin, the best way to be sure is looking at your chimney out side when the fire is going.

Do you see smoke? If you do make the fire hotter. If you don't maybe you can lower it a bit. But check for smoke. If your stove is hot enough you should see no to tiny amounts of smoke. If your chimney looks like your running a Coal fired steam train... heat it up.


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## Cabin Fever

fin29 said:


> So with an insulated chimney that gets warm to the touch but not hot, how do you know your chimney is hot enough to prevent buildup?


Experience

It's like this, even if you knew the temp of the gases in your stovepipe as it left the woodstove, the temp is going to cool down as it rises upward. The rate of cooling is dependant on how long your chimney is, whether the majority of your chimney is inside or outside of your house, and the material the chimney is made of (ie,m concrete block or insulted chimney pipe).

Because of this, the best place to monitor your chimney temperature is at the very top of your chimney! In a perfect world, the temp of the vapors exiting your chimney at the top should be well above the temp of boiling water (ie, >212ÂºF). 

So, if you want to get this down to a science, you might want to try this experiment. Place a magnetic thermometer on your stovepipe. Send someone up on the roof with a walkie-talkie. Have him hold a thermometer over the top of the chimney. When the temp of the wood smoke exiting your chimney is about 220 to 250ÂºF, look at the temp on your stovepipe thermometer and remember it. This "experiment" should get you in the ball park of knowing what is the safe burn temp for your woodburning stove.


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## fin29

Cabin Fever said:


> Send someone up on the roof with a walkie-talkie.



You volunteering, lol? When the installers were here, the looks on their faces indicated they were less than impressed with the height of the peak...at least we have a good draft...:clap:

That does seem like a worthwhile/interesting experiment.


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