# Canning w/o Pressure Cooker or Mason Jars



## BR-mom (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and am enjoying the community.

I live in a place where canning is done the old fashioned boiling way (not using a pressure cooker). And they don't use (and I cannot find) Mason type canning jars. Most people just use re-purposed glass jars with the original lids (not canning lids, mind you.)

Any suggestions on a process for this type of canning? I grew up using Mason jars - AND - it's been MANY years since I've canned.

While I get my gardens going here at the new place, I'm planning on starting to buy produce when it's super cheap at the market and canning it.

Thanks!


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## Limon (Aug 25, 2010)

Yikes. Those methods haven't been considered safe for a very long time. About the only place you'll find any information on it is in some old recipe books or canning guides.

Personally, I'd look into dehydrating the produce before canning without canning jars. If you have to can, I'd stick with pickles and jams. The acidity in the pickles will help somewhat, and you can scrape mold off jams/jellies. I have no idea if you can even water bath those reused jars without water leaking into them or running the risk of breaking them.


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## kenworth (Feb 12, 2011)

Many parts of the world still preserve like this. 

In the last year, an acquaintence in Europe told me they don't have the same jars as we use in the US, either. She told me that they boil foods in reused jars and lids for hours on end, and it seems to preserve it successfully.

Good luck with your project.


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## Limon (Aug 25, 2010)

Botulism spores *cannot* be killed by boiling water. Foods that aren't high in acid have to be heated to 240 degrees to destroy it. Any method of canning that doesn't pressure can low-acid foods runs the risk of botulism. It's a rare disease, but it's also one you don't want to get. Even if you survive, you'll be in the hospital for months.


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## Jan in CO (May 10, 2002)

I second the suggestion to dehydrate all that you can. Even tho our ancestors did the water bath and open kettle method, I would hate to tempt fate! Good luck! You can build a solar dryer for food fairly easily.


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## strawberrygirl (Feb 11, 2009)

Welcome to HT! Glad you joined us! :grin: 

I third the suggestion to dehydrate. Not to be a negative Nancy, but you really don't want to mess with unsafe canning methods. There is a chance you could end up very sick. Not only that, but if you do have failures you will have to throw away all of the food that you worked so hard to preserve. :Bawling:

Good luck!


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

*I can't recommend this practice but I do it*.....I buy my spaghetti sauce in glass jars and re-use them....for canning milk (goat milk, 1hr boiling water bath), tomatoes (45min BWB)
pickles, apple sauce, salsa, jams and jellies (BWB for 10 min)

I do not pressure can in these bottles...I save my mason jars for those low acid, meats items


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

I can in the Atlas spaghetti jars- but I use the actual canning lids- not sure I would use reg jars- mmmm even though I do quite a bit of things canning wise that would have the canning police show up at my door step!


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## praieri winds (Apr 16, 2010)

I never do any WBC with anthing but mason jars an lids I saw a film one time on how unsafe the other jars were then it is only pickles and jams and such tomatoes are usually dryed then ground into a powder to use in sauces and soups 
if you google you can find jars you can order and the pressure canner also


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

I water-bathed mason jars for over 30years like that before we bought our first pressure canner. And my parental family always saved all sorts of jars, other than mason jars, to reuse. I know it works because.... well, because we are alive, and never had food poisoning. 
I do have to say that a pressure canner is just so much faster and easier. I can't really speak about the jars so much, because I always used canning jars not regular jars. But I know my grandma saved every peanut butter jar and mayo jar that came into the house to can in, so it does work.
I would really suggest you get a pressure canner and canning jars as you can though simply for the speed and ease of canning. Plus canning jars don't shatter like the thinner jars can shatter. It's just cleaner and easier to do it the more common way.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Becka03 said:


> Ieven though I do quite a bit of things canning wise that would have the canning police show up at my door step!


Same here.


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## Sonshine (Jul 27, 2007)

I use jars other than mason jars for things like pickles ect. Anything that I water bath can I use other jars. But I wouldn't waterbath low acid foods.


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

I was given access to salvage a large number of mason jars that had been in a farm house basement for along, long time .:happy:
Along with the ball jars were many others , looked like old mayo jars , that they had used for canning also but they were hard to tell apart from the ball jars , nothing like the mayo and other jars I get from the store today.

I wouldnt do it . My sister had botulism once and it was horrible for a very long time .


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## BR-mom (Apr 2, 2012)

Thanks, everyone, I appreciate the feedback!


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

the thought just occurred to me and I may be wrong but interior Brazil is generally quite humid so I would think that dehydrating would be challenging...??? Plus bugs of every kind imaginable!
Is smoking being used for game and fish? Salting?


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## Karen (Apr 17, 2002)

Welcome BR-mom we're glad to have you join us! 

Even with the humidity, you can still dehydrate food, it just takes longer. I would definitely then vacuum seal it after dehydrating. Worked for me when we lived in Florida with 95-100% humidity all summer long.

As far as canning goes, we've all argued over this forever on here. I would not feel comfortable canning low acid in WB, but I do know people who still do it. My mother and grandmother canned that way as did people years before them. I personally have never known anyone who has gotten sick and we did a poll a while back that showed no one else here knew of anyone either. I'd rather be safe than sorry for myself, but I won't criticize someone else for choosing that method. 

Actually, there is no scientific testing/study done on the topic that isn't biased; and hasn't even been a study done in years and years. The CDC has only 15 cases involving home canned foods (only 2 deaths) in 7 years and they are not certain whether those cases are due to bad product to begin with, improper cleanliness, canning times, etc. In fact, what we are told today about the procedures in canning are only theoretic - not proven. So who really knows!

In Europe, the canning techniques would make our toes curl; but so is that true of other countries. If it were so bad, I keep thinking they'd change their ways; but I really have no idea.

Nonetheless, in your situation, I would opt for dehydrating or smoking. My theory is better safe than sorry, no matter what the statistics say.


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## Pelenaka (Jul 27, 2007)

I'm curious what foods are canned and what are the recipes ? Wondering if the recipes are heavy on vinegar. Another thought is that the locals all have acquired immunity which is not to say that one can have immunity from botulism, my point is one can't always go completely local. 

When I picture Brazil I picture zone 7 & up so I'm curious if that's the case can't you just garden all year long for the most part ?


~~ pelenaka ~~


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## BR-mom (Apr 2, 2012)

mpillow said:


> the thought just occurred to me and I may be wrong but interior Brazil is generally quite humid so I would think that dehydrating would be challenging...??? Plus bugs of every kind imaginable!
> Is smoking being used for game and fish? Salting?


Hi! You are absolutely right. It's VERY humid here, so dehydrating is really not an option for me. LOL about the bugs - that is VERY true! Many people here preserve with salt, and that's something I am just starting to study so I can give it a try. I have a friend here who knows how, so I'll be asking her.


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## BR-mom (Apr 2, 2012)

Karen said:


> Welcome BR-mom we're glad to have you join us!
> 
> Even with the humidity, you can still dehydrate food, it just takes longer. I would definitely then vacuum seal it after dehydrating. Worked for me when we lived in Florida with 95-100% humidity all summer long.
> 
> ...



Hi Karen,

Thanks for the welcome!

I may look into dehydrating, but we'll see. I am also looking for some canning jars and I've found some good resources online. 

Thanks for the feedback!


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## BR-mom (Apr 2, 2012)

Pelenaka said:


> I'm curious what foods are canned and what are the recipes ? Wondering if the recipes are heavy on vinegar. Another thought is that the locals all have acquired immunity which is not to say that one can have immunity from botulism, my point is one can't always go completely local.
> 
> When I picture Brazil I picture zone 7 & up so I'm curious if that's the case can't you just garden all year long for the most part ?
> 
> ...


Hi Pelenaka,

I'll be canning mostly produce from my garden, or that I find on sale. For meat, I want to try jerky style (in the oven) or salt preservation. 

We can garden, but we just moved to our property and put in a small garden. I really don't know the soil here to know what will grow well and what will not. It'll take a year or so to figure it out, I think. I want to can what extras I have come in.


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## overunder (Feb 14, 2015)

Limon said:


> Botulism spores *cannot* be killed by boiling water. Foods that aren't high in acid have to be heated to 240 degrees to destroy it. Any method of canning that doesn't pressure can low-acid foods runs the risk of botulism. It's a rare disease, but it's also one you don't want to get. Even if you survive, you'll be in the hospital for months.


Actually this is incorrect. If you heat your foods to over 180F for 10 minutes you'll kill any and all types of pathogens - this includes botulism spores. 

At sea level boiling water is 212F (I live at approx. 4500 feet and my water boils at 202F at 10000 feet it's 200F).

The reason why pressure cookers are required is because many people don't leave their foods in the boiling water bath for long enough for the food to heat over 180F completely, and if the middle of the food doesn't reach 180F for over 10 minutes you might as well have not done it at all.

I'm very cautious with the foods I that can, and if there is any worry (low acid foods) I'll heat the product I'm canning to a simmer (over 180F) and at that temperature I'll load it into bottles that I've just removed from a boiling water bath (usually in my canning pot - this is how I sterilize). And then seal them in a water bath.

side note(s): If you sterilize your bottles in the same pot that you can in you'll have to remove some of the water before you put the filled jars back in or it will overflow (I've gotten to busy filling the jars and done this). Never put hot food in a room temperature or colder jar as the jar might crack. Also don't put a hot loaded jar in cold water for the same reason (preheat your water bath). Last note: If you plan to do it as I do with the hot food and jars, make sure you have jar tongs before you start, something to dip out boiling water, hand protection for putting on rings and seals, and if possible a canning funnel for the jars (funnel is optional, but makes life much easier). Working with everything at this temperature can be dangerous so be careful.

I've known many people that re-purposed bottles for canning with no problems. Just make sure the sealing edge is clean and the bottle has no chips or cracks. 

I normally don't use re-purposed bottles as I like the heavier/more durable glass of canning jars but I don't have a problem with anyone else doing so (some of the jars I use were my Grandmother's, a couple are even my Great Grandmother's). 

However re-purposed lids I'd be a little iffy on as getting a clean seal could be a problem. However I have used re-purposed lids on foods that were low risk, like jams or jellies (though I often seal them with paraffin also). Usually I only did this as I liked the jars and was giving them away as presents (I don't like giving away my canning jars - though I often have). 

I've used old mayonnaise jars and later sealed them with the original lids when making sauerkraut - but as I would normally make it in an open crock or in unsealed canning jars (until it stops fermenting - produces gas). And as I never seal them in a hot water bath the jar's suitability is more flexible.


Disclaimer: I have re-used both lids and the jars before and "canned"* leftovers from dinner. However I stored them in the refrigerator and seldom left them for more than a week before eating them.
*I don't actually consider this canning - I don't put them in a water bath long (or occasionally at all) - I just put hot food into a hot sterilized jar and then cool it in the refrigerator (so it cools faster, and gets out of the danger temperatures faster). I do this so I can store it in the refrigerator longer. --This actually could be considered an unsafe practice - don't do this.


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## Werforpsu (Aug 8, 2013)

I know a bunch of people who can green beans and meat for 3 hours in a water bath canner. It was how their mothers and grandmothers taught them to do it. Since I taught myself to can, I follow all the guidelines.

Is it possible to have jars and a pressure canner shipped to you? Would cold storage be an option for you?


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Sorry, but you can boil something for 24 hours & it still will not get above the boiling point. Pressure canning needs to be done on certain foods to kill botulism. If you plan on opening up your jars & boiling them for 10 minutes every time to kill the spores then you may get by with only water bath canning. I prefer to not take my chances when it comes to that. Some things just will not heat thoroughly enough in a water bath canner. Just because something was done a certain way years ago, doesn't mean it should be done that way now. As with most things, tests are ran & better & safer ways of doing things are revealed.

Just curious, why would you want to run a canner on the stove for 3 hours when you can use a pressure canner & have it done in 25 minutes & know it was done the safest way possible?


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

Wendy said:


> Sorry, but you can boil something for 24 hours & it still will not get above the boiling point. Pressure canning needs to be done on certain foods to kill botulism. If you plan on opening up your jars & boiling them for 10 minutes every time to kill the spores then you may get by with only water bath canning. I prefer to not take my chances when it comes to that. Some things just will not heat thoroughly enough in a water bath canner. Just because something was done a certain way years ago, doesn't mean it should be done that way now. As with most things, tests are ran & better & safer ways of doing things are revealed.
> 
> Just curious, why would you want to run a canner on the stove for 3 hours when you can use a pressure canner & have it done in 25 minutes & know it was done the safest way possible?



I use a pressure canner, but either way it's on the stove for hours. It's takes time to heat up, vent, can and cool.


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## Homesteader (Jul 13, 2002)

Quoting overunder in part:

"Actually this is incorrect. If you heat your foods to over 180F for 10 minutes you'll kill any and all types of pathogens - this includes botulism spores."

To overunder - last I checked, the bot spores (not the bacteria, the spores, which give off the toxin that kills), is not destroyed unless subjected to 240F for a certain amount of time. Pressure is required to raise the water temp above boiling point, and that time and pressure are determined by your altitude.

If you have found quotable information that actually proves this wrong, please share. If indeed it's true, this would revolutionize the canning world. If you are simply misinformed, or misunderstood, please come back and share that as well.

Are you aware that the bacteria and spores are killed at two different temps?


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## Wendy (May 10, 2002)

Yes, but the cooling time the canner is not turned on. I would say total for a batch of greenbeans is an hour tops.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

overunder said:


> Actually this is incorrect. If you heat your foods to over 180F for 10 minutes you'll kill any and all types of pathogens - this includes botulism spores.


Spores and toxin is different, spores require the 240 degrees f to kill. Less than that temperature the spores will hatch (i guess for lack of a better word)and create toxin, this is what is disabled when you heat above 180 degrees f. So if in doubt you heat the contents of the canned jar to 180 for 10 minutes to disable the toxin before it is eaten. Most people would like to err on the safe side and be sure to kill the spores in the first place so the toxin isn't of concern to them.


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## starlady (Sep 9, 2009)

FYI, this thread is 3 years old. Presumably OP has gotten their canning situation sorted out by now.


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## BlackFeather (Jun 17, 2014)

yes, but post 21 revived the tread and information needed to be addressed.


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## IowaLez (Mar 6, 2006)

Actually, I have a really nice home canning book dated 1915. I fought a bidding war on Ebay for it and it cost me plenty of $ to win.

In it, the method is boiling water bath for 1 hour, than let cool for 24 hours. Then boiling water bath for 1 more hour. Then leave cool for 24 hours, and then repeat it one last time.

The theory is that in the 24 hour intervals, any botulism spores will "hatch" I guess you could say, so the next hour of boiling water bath, would kill them. And doing that twice and then a final boil is said to make it safe.

So while it IS three hours in the waterbath, it's not three continuous hours at once.

That book is going be arriving here at my apt on Saturday along with a trailer of all my other books (400?) and my bookcases, so once I get them sorted and on the shelves, I'd be happy to get it out and pass on any additional info in it.

Also, there is a book about preserving foods without canning and the like that are safe ways to do it, I'll have that book here and can give you the title of it.


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