# Seriously dissapointed with goats. Thinking about sheep.



## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

We have four Kinder goats. The doe is a wonderful milker. Can't complain over this. We purchased the foursome to clear our land of blackberries and bramble. They're hard on the thatch and all works well - when the sun shines and they bear NO risk of getting their feet wet or muddy to stroll across the pasture to get to the thatch covered knoll. This is frustrating for us. We have spent $100's on cattle panels to contain them. I can sometimes entice one of them across the mud and toward the higher ground where the blackberries are, but I don't have time for this, nor do I want an animal I have to coax with treat to get out there and do what we bought them to do.:hair I'm sure this will change as warm weather comes, but we have very short summers and a lot of wet in between.. 

so, we're thinking that perhaps we should keep a milker or two, and switch to sheep. We know nothing about them. Our objectives are brush clearing and meat. (maybe a milk sheep?). So here's questions. 

Which breed? Is there a hearty one that does better in rain? or that is more mellow? better for meat? Are they hard to contain? - will the cattle panels hold them? Can we run our chosen goats with them? Should we keep a ram? (Do they stink like a buck?) Do sheep need supplement grain? Are they hard to keep healthy? Do they need their hooves trimmed, wormed, etc? Are they harder to handle? What about this shearing thing?

We do not need registered animals. I am not very interested in their wool, unless their pelts are valuable or there's something simple that can be done with it. (My sister is a professional knitter though). We would use the offspring for meat. We have four and half acres we are slowly fencing - plan was to have the animal eat the fence line as we go. Our neighbor 1/4 mile away raises Icelandics, so we might be able to strike a deal for cheap lambs or stud service down the road. 

SO - not to bombard you with questions - but this seemed like the best place to start.

Thanks

LF & Rj


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

LFRJ said:


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> *Which breed? * Dorper or Katadin (I think there's an 'h' in that breed somewhere) they don't need to be sheared.
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## Oregon Julie (Nov 9, 2006)

Callieslamb said:


> LFRJ said:
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## LFRJ (Dec 1, 2006)

Thanks. Great info so far! A couple of important questions we left out - with goats, you must be careful to purchase from a CL, CAE free herd. Testing a must before buying - unless you're prepared. What diseases do we need to look out for? 
Also, our old neighbor who had Jacob sheep and an oberhasli goats, complained that the goats always stayed inside the shelters, but he didn't know why he bothered to make shelter for the sheep. They never used it. Will either of the above breeds do okay in the rain? Yes, we're west of the mountains. Gets wetter every year it seems.


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## Ross (May 9, 2002)

I would say goats are a little less rain tolerant than sheep but my sheep (had lots of breeds can't really see much difference except for North County Cheviots) don't appreciate rain. NCC's wouldn't miss a meal for anything.


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## VA Shepherd (Dec 26, 2010)

St. Croix is another hair breed to consider; they have good parasite resistance, and I think the heritage breeds are just tougher animals all around. 

But, I'm curious, because I've always heard that goats are superior to sheep for clearing brush; they are much more capable of browsing woody plants. Maybe it's specific to breed or type of brush, though. I could never let my sheep into the brush around here: the greenbriar would catch and hold them like velcro, and there are a LOT of native plants which are toxic to them. Goats have more resistance to high-tannin plants which might be fatal to sheep. Also, sheep are not at all excited about getting their feet wet, but pigs, of course, love a bit of mud!

This article http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/465/465-341/465-341.html talks about the value of goats as brush clearers, and states that "In a recent study of goats grazing in a power line right of way for five years in West Virginia, they reduced the brush cover from 45 percent down to 15 percent in one year. Sheep, on the other hand, took three years to achieve the same results (Magadlela et al., 1995). After five years of grazing, goats reduced brush cover to 2 percent." 

I'm hoping to get pigs in the next few years to clear out my woods, everyone I've talked to says they're the best, and there's no wool or hair to worry about. Joel Salatin uses them in the wooded parts of his farm. This article http://www.3k88.com/pasture.htm says it well: "Sometimes, it is easiest to use animals to clear the brush. Goats are specialists, often preferring brush to grass and clover. Sheep love poison ivy and bittersweet, and will clean up leafy spurge, which has proved a problem in areas as widespread as the western range states and Rhode Island. The real masters of brush clearing are pigs, who will eat roots and all if they are put out without nose rings. The trick to getting animals to clear brush and weeds is to confine them to a relatively small area with a tether or temporary fences. If they have an entire pasture to roam, animals seek out tasty new grass, clover or buds. When they are confined to a small area, they eat everything in sight, including brush and weeds. One clever trick for stumps is to drill deep holes in the perimeter of the stump and fill them with corn grain; pigs will work until they have even a large stump out to get the last of the grain."

Just a different take, good luck with whatever you get!  And some type of electric fencing would be best for any of the three.

As for diseases in sheep, scrapie is the main one, but it's not usually a problem except in certain breeds (I think Suffolks & Hampshires have the highest rates, but I could be wrong there). If you do get a ram, I'd recommend a B. ovis test, and if you're going to milk them, a TB test is pretty cheap for the peace of mind. Otherwise, you'll want to inspect the teeth, udders, and feet of every animal you buy, and avoid animals with runny eyes, and coughing or sneezing. Familiarizing yourself with FAMACHA ahead of time would be a good way to check for general parasite resistance. 

And rams do musk up in the fall, but they aren't nearly as smelly as goats!


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## birchtreefarm (Jul 22, 2007)

It does depend somewhat on the breed of sheep as to whether they are good browsers. Icelandics are very good at browsing. They will eat everything they can reach, and if they can't reach it, they'll see if they can push it over. I've watched my sheep rear up against a sapling, push, and then as it bends walk along straddling the trunk until the top is within reach. At this point all the other sheep rush in like vegetarian piranhas and denude it of its leaves. Then the sheep doing the straddling walks off the end and the naked sapling springs back skyward. They helped us clear an overgrown pasture that way.


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## KIT.S (Oct 8, 2008)

I can highly recommend Finnsheep for their sturdiness, multiple births and preference for browsing blackberries and bushes. They'll go for the blackberries before any lush grass. However, they're a smaller breed, so it takes more of them for a year's meat. They do taste good, though.
The last Icelandic ram we had broke down buildings and fences, and put a dent in the car. He was delicious, too. He also browsed waste bush well, when he wasn't being a hellion.
We have two ancient St Croix ewes who had lambs again this year, and they're between 12 and 14 years of age. Their lambs are bigger, and they taste good too! I guess I just like the taste of lamb.
Both the Finns and St Croix need foot work here in the Willamette valley. Our land isn't very rocky and is very moist in the winter, so I'm always plugging away at that.
Kit


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## flarytails (Apr 30, 2011)

I would get the Icelandics but I am partial since that is what I have. They are a tri-purpose sheep, they give milk and the best meat as well as fleece. Icelandics are also hardy and I have found them to be very friendly and easy to tame. They also fatten up well on grass and are big enough to eat at 4 months without needing any grain!


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## J.T.M. (Mar 2, 2008)

Id have to say anybreed of sheep is better then what you have now . :runforhills:


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## bricned (Jul 3, 2006)

Over the years I have raised several different breeds of goats and sheep. This includes Dorper, St. Croix, Katahdin and American Blackbelly Barbados.
I have found the American Blackbelly line that I now raise is by far the easiest
to raise. I have less time ,labor and medication in these sheep than any other
sheep or goat that I have been involve with.


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## glidergurl03 (Feb 28, 2005)

If you want brush clearing, and are dead set on sheep, get a hair sheep. They're pretty good at it. Otherwise get a couple Highlander cattle  

Rayna
North Star Shetlands


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

If you are looking at brush clearing then I think goats would be better than sheep. 

However, I have Jacob sheep and they do not clear brush. Ours need their hooves done but once a year and they are not long then at all. They are very hardy and a good wool breed, fantastic lean meat. They do have horns but I have never had an issue with that at all, mine are very friendly and my ram has never shown any aggression at all. Sturdy and strong and no dropping dead here either. 

I much prefer sheep to goats. Ours are not fence jumpers either. They respect electric and graze even through the snow. 

I am still not convinced sheep are what you need unless you get a breed that eats brambles and other brush.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

I am surprized that some are inferring sheep are not good browsers. My sheep will eat every leaf and small twig they can reach, no they will not chew a 3 inch diameter tree to the ground, but if left over the winter with trees I would bet most would be barked and dead come spring. Much of grazing preference is learned behavior. A sheep that has never seen anything but bluegrass-clover pasture may take a while to learn.


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## lambs.are.cute (Aug 15, 2010)

my suffolks, romney and dorset cross will eat about anything. I moved them to summer pasture two weeks ago and the first thing they did was eat the tree. Walked half way across the pasture ignoring all the lovely grass. They also love weeds - pretty much any weeds including thistles. They will eat the grass - mostly the babies will and the ewes will run around eating dandylions, thistles, some sort of yellow weed (which I forgot the name of), green cheat grass (thankfully the won't touch the dried stuff), trees, and my garden if they can get out (they really love spinach). 

My grandpa raised sheep and goats on the oregon coast for clearing black berries. He said that the sheep were the best at eating the black berries but they wouldn't pull them down so he got a couple of goats and the goats would hop on top of the mess and pull it down to eat but they would only nibble here and there then leave. The sheep would clean up the mess. He kept "short woolies" (I'm assuming that they were some sort of meat breed that didn't get a lot of wool on them) because they didn't have blackberry vines tangled in their wool.


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## Our Little Farm (Apr 26, 2010)

Different breeds of sheep eat different things.


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## rustyshacklefor (Sep 19, 2005)

I too am tiring of goats, but only because of trying to contain the darn things. I would like to try a small to medium breed of sheep, docile in nature, pasture is not a problem with toxic weeds, basically just need a lawn mower. And fresh lamb every now and then would not be so bad either. So if i could get a recomendation it would be appreciated.


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## ONG2 (Sep 22, 2010)

I thought about this tread last night as I was moving our goats. We have 3 goats and 30 sheep mostly American Black Belly. Those 3 goats fill up a far larger stupid bucket fuller and faster in a single day than all those sheep do in a week.


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## bergere (May 11, 2002)

I found the Soay's I had were just as good as goat for eating brush. In fact, mine preferred it.
With the Soay's make sure you buy ones that are handled, unless you want to tame them down yourself.

The Jacobs I had, seemed to like to both eat brush and graze. Some of the other breeds I had preferred to be lawn mowers.
I spun my sheep's wool and wasn't overly pleased when they got blackberry vines tangled in their fleece.


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## KrisD (May 26, 2011)

I had polypays and I loved them. They can be bred year round and they have many multiples usually. You do have to shear them however ours were so tame that they would just stand there while I sheared they didn't even need restraining. They are awesome for meat and they give a good amount of milk too. Very hardy super sweet and they are definitely the money makers of the sheep world. I do love my goats though and they aren't afraid of a little water.


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