# Air-rifle as a survival tool??



## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

O.K I'm not talking about the daisy red rider here. I'm talking about a real functional air rifle which go all the way up to .50cal and are used to take down boar, deer and etc. The Koreans make some of the best, and you can peruse some here; www.pyramydair.com.

They go from .22 all the way up and cost as much as a traditional 'fire-arm'. Louis and Clark had one on their voyage and commented that it was more reliable and functional than their firearms.

I see the advantage being that, with a special hand pump, you can manually reload in perpetuity. With a simple 'tool and die' kit from Corbin you can make your own pellets and recycle them forever without needing to buy anything. The process is different from 'casting' bullets, it is a 'cold' process called 'swaging' which is actually alot less labor intensive.

The other advantage is sound. The bigger calibers make noise too...but a lot less noise than a powder gun. The smaller calibers, many of which work with a 'nitro' spring are reported to be whisper silent. I don't see it as a defense weapon BUT.... In a survival situation, I can definitely see an advantage to being able to take down game silently, with a gun that doesn't need bullets...( plus they are cool ). What say you?


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

I think they'll work for a long time but sooner or later whatever rubber gasket inside of them that holds pressure will degrade.

Other than that, I like them. But it wouldn't be my main weapon. Probably a great poacher's tool.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Air rifles are dandy for killing game up to at least rabbits with a head shot even in .17 caliber. Years ago Beeman imported the Feinwherkbau from Germany that used a spring that you compressed by operating the barrel as a lever. I saw one with an 8 power Leupold. It was very accurate. Another idea, depending on your state, is to buy a silencer for a .22.


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## megafatcat (Jun 30, 2009)

Poaching or training up the younguns. We will not be giving the kids a couple bulk packs of .22 for practice, but they will need to shoot well.
For hunting, if there is any chance of big game, I will take the biggest, baddest repeating rifle I can because the meat and hide would be too important for a single shot.


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## time (Jan 30, 2011)

My grandad had a .22 cal. Worked great for many years. I think it's still around, don't know who ended up with it when he passed.


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

"Great poachers tool",I bought a pyramid at a yd sale pretty cheap..and I have 6-20oz CO2 tanks,it will kill a big rabbit and a small coyote(LUCKY shot).I believe in as many backups for everything.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

It worked well for Lewis & Clark like you say. Really wowed the natives. I believe it was a .36 cal, but really don't remember from the history I read. I did have a .22 cal German made air rifle that shot at about 1100-1200 fps. It killed rabbits as well as any .22 powder gun. That said now I use a .22 powder gun with sub-sonic shells.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

In the 60s my grandpa gave me his old Benjamin 22 air rifle and he bought a new one. I wore out and rebuilt the old one, twice. It finally fell apart from metal fatigue on the air chamber area. I got his new one when he passed and used it this morning to take a magpie at 40 yards. I built a scope mount for it that uses a shotgun scope to give some clearance for he loading area. 

I bought my dad an RWS 17 cal 25 years ago. He loved it and kept the crows away. 

From what I've read about the hand pump for the large caliber type rifles, if you think pumping up your little bike tire to 50 psi takes a while, you better pack a lunch when it comes time to refill your rifle chamber. 

If it was an end of the world survival situation where I was hunting larger game, I would probably have a suppressor along to compound the felonies. why not?


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Ed Norman said:


> From what I've read about the hand pump for the large caliber type rifles, if you think pumping up your little bike tire to 50 psi takes a while, you better pack a lunch when it comes time to refill your rifle chamber.


I saw a video of a guy doing it...he said it takes roughly 140 pumps ( which get progressively harder ) to fill it. He said if you are under 140lbs ( unless unusually strong ) you might not be able to do it. 

The good news is that one fill gets you around 10 shots...but I guess you have to release the pressure before putting it away for the day.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Ernie said:


> I think they'll work for a long time but sooner or later whatever rubber gasket inside of them that holds pressure will degrade.
> 
> Other than that, I like them. But it wouldn't be my main weapon. Probably a great poacher's tool.


No definitely not a main weapon, but a nice tool. I'm thinking about a real long term survival situation. Let's say the complete TEOTWAWKI, end of the world scenario...you have a hunting tool that doesn't need bullets and doesn't alert local roving bands of zombies who want your plunder.

Yes eventually it wears out just like everything else, and if you can't take it apart and repair it, it becomes junk.


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## Roadking (Oct 8, 2009)

The remingtons and rugers are quite nice; accurate, powerful and have a purpose (a fella I know managed to take a "wounded" deer a few years back...I was there and still call it poachin'). 1700 fps, quiet, ammo cheap...yep, a nice lil gun to have as a learning/educational/occassional small game tool to have.
Then again, so is a .22 short.
Just my $0.04...inflation, ya know.
Matt


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## ryanthomas (Dec 10, 2009)

One advantage I didn't see mentioned is they are not firearms, so do not have many of the legal issues attached to that particular category of weapon.

ETA: There are semi-autos available, too.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

kirkmcquest said:


> No definitely not a main weapon, but a nice tool. I'm thinking about a real long term survival situation. Let's say the complete TEOTWAWKI, end of the world scenario...you have a hunting tool that doesn't need bullets and doesn't alert local roving bands of zombies who want your plunder.
> 
> Yes eventually it wears out just like everything else, and if you can't take it apart and repair it, it becomes junk.


Are you talking about a flatbow or longbow you made out of that tree over there, or the lumberyard board with the right grain? 

Ehh, I'd take a big air rifle, too, because I don't have one.


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## InvalidID (Feb 18, 2011)

Ernie said:


> I think they'll work for a long time but sooner or later whatever rubber gasket inside of them that holds pressure will degrade.
> 
> Other than that, I like them. But it wouldn't be my main weapon. Probably a great poacher's tool.


 Then you learn how to make leather gaskets. I have made a few in my time.

Also, a certain someone that isn't me once made an air rifle out of scrap parts and an air tank. Shot straight and took down a deer without issue. It was however, kinda louder than folks would think.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> With a simple 'tool and die' kit from Corbin you can make your own pellets and *recycle them forever* without needing to buy anything.


That's only if you fire them into a bullet trap.

Otherwise you'll never see them again


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

kirkmcquest said:


> I saw a video of a guy doing it...he said it takes roughly 140 pumps ( which get progressively harder ) to fill it. He said if you are under 140lbs ( unless unusually strong ) you might not be able to do it.
> 
> The good news is that one fill gets you around 10 shots...but I guess you have to release the pressure before putting it away for the day.


My how times have changed. Here is a quote from a long article about the original Lewis and Clark air rifle:



> Certainly the soldiers were not going to fully pump up their three cylinders in regular use as this would require about 4500 strokes with the hand pump! Even a single cylinder could have taken a half hour of hard pumping action!


http://beemans.net/lewis-assault-rifle.htm


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I saw a video of a guy doing it...he said it takes roughly* 140 pumps *( which get progressively harder ) to fill it. He said if you are under 140lbs ( *unless unusually strong ) you might not be able to do it*.


That's not a "survival weapon"

You'll burn more calories pumping it than you'll gain from the game you kill.

Take that money and buy a good 22, and 10.000 rounds of ammo

No pumping required


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

I am getting a air rifle for the bug out bag.....not a .50 cal one....a regular break barrel.

Light , discreet and will not use up valuable ammo...most good ones come with 2 barrels, a .22 and .177 barrel.


The newer ones have velocities almost equall to a .22 and will last for thousands of shots.

I still will carry a .22 pistol and a .22 rifle , but will use the pellet/ bb rifle for most survival game...

Think you can get alot of .22 ammo in your survival pack....500 bb guns rounds fit in a skoal can

Would I rely on it as a sole means....never...will it make a great covert cheap addition to any survival plan....you bet.

A good ear in the quiet woods can detect a gun shot for many miles.......for about 250 to 400 bucks you can get a quality one that will last a lifetime...depending on use and care.

Like I mentioned, it is great for covert hunting and conserving ammo even if you are bugging in and especially if you are close to others/urban......last thing I want the Jones knowing is I am eating squirel they fed in thier feeder for the last 5 years or that I have food at all........

It would make a great addition to your arsenal and give you options.......would I rank it at the top of the list of things to get...no, but if you have the extra cash, it could come in handy and save ammo.

Go take a look at some air rifle forums and get a look at the game they take with the newer ones and the size of some of the game......

They also have some nice selections of ammo now for the air rifles...it`s not just bb`s and flat nosed pellets anymore........

I am not a fan of the big caliber air rifles that can cost over a grand easy, some closer to 2 grand and are very limited in service life....at that price and noise level you would be better served with a real rifle........for the price of a nice .36 to .50 caliber air rifle you can get a used 700 rem bolt action and a few thousand rounds of ammo....


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

I have been looking at them for a while now. Did a bit of looking on Youtube. This guy gunner17722has a really good channel. He is from England and showes how average guys hunt there with air rifles. He has quite a few videos of a man names John Darling. He does some pretty work with air rifles. Theis gunner17722 also has other videos of how to make rabbit snares and such. The videos are easy to watch not like some on youtube that may have good info but the presenter is irritating.

http://www.youtube.com/user/gunner17722


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## Ohio Rusty (Jan 18, 2008)

If you are looking to add a gun to your collection for survival, a pellet rifle is one you should own. That is a good .177 caliber or .20 or .22 caliber pellet rifle (not BB gun). Something like a one cock spring piston rifle that shoots 800 to 1000 feet per second. I have an older model Fienwerkbau 124 .177 caliber. My brother has a Beeman R9 in .20 caliber. 
The pros of and praise for these rifles are endless. They are quiet when they shoot so you don't attract attention to yourself. There is no resrictions in buying these in about every state in the country. It's a good pest remover. Pellets are available everywhere. You can carry several thousand rounds in the palm of your hand. There are no gunpowder residue or other forensic issues with a pellet rifle. You don't need a specific ammo ...any pellet configuration in the right caliber will shoot accurately. They are EXCELLENT small game harvesters. ***Remember that EVERY BIRD on the north american continent is edible (turkeys, chickens, grouse, ducks, field and yard birds, et all.). In really hard times you can set up several feeders and gather enough birds and other game animals (squirrels, raccoons, etc) to feed your family every single day -- whether you live in the city or the country. A half dozen birds a day will feed you so you don't go hungry. (think smallish rock cornish game hens). If you don't have access to large game like deer or farm animals, this is meat in your stomach !! A good pellet rifle will also harvest frogs, fish and turtles.
Lastly, you can get a rifle like this for under $100.00 at Walmart and other similiar stores. You can practice your marksmanship skills with one of these everyday indoors, even if you live in an apartment. Try THAT with a high powered rifle, shotgun or pistol.
A high power, high velocity pellet rifle should be a priority in your survival arsenal. If you only own 2 guns, one should be a good high quality pellet rifle.
Ohio Rusty ><>
Psalms 27:1-3/Psalms 91:9-11 (AMP)


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

I can attest to the small game/varmit killing power of even a modestly decent air gun. Squirrel, rabbit, chipmunk, birds, at least up to and including a groundhog (I took one of these down a couple weeks ago with a Crosman multi-pump pistol).

Are they a man killer? No. They're not even a man stopper in any practical sense of the word.

They remain, however, a useful tool. My tack hammer can't do the job of my sledgehammer either, but the tack hammer remains a useful tool. I can use my airguns in my suburban backyard without scaring the bejebees out of my neighbors, or their even being aware that I'm firing a 'gun'.


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## damoc (Jul 14, 2007)

even a less expensive 150 -250 dollar one is an excelent survival tool
a great hunter on small game and a great defender of the chicken coop from
skunks and raccoons.very cheap to shoot and quiet if that is important.


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Related to the above, when I was about 12, I got shot with a pump action pellet gun and the pellet went into my pectoral muscle. I can attest to the fact that it isn't a stopper, but it did make me stop and think twice about what I was doing, and then get the heck out of dodge.

It also gave me an immediate lesson in first aid. The friend I was with wimped out, so with a scalpel and a pair of tweezers, I had to get the pellet out myself. It only took a small incision. Auto-surgery was however, a much more attractive alternative than explaining to my parents what I was doing to get shot in the first place.


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## beachcomber (Dec 2, 2008)

if your trying to be quiet so as not to be found out ,how you going to eat your game,raw?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> if your trying to be quiet so as not to be found out ,how you going to eat your game,raw?


It's easier to hide a small fire than a loud sound

You can boil water with a few candles


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## Gabriel (Dec 2, 2008)

NoClue said:


> Auto-surgery was however, a much more attractive alternative than explaining to my parents what I was doing to get shot in the first place.


So, what _were_ you doing? :shocked:


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## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Gabriel said:


> So, what _were_ you doing? :shocked:


Even 35 years later, I'm pleading the fifth


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

NoClue said:


> Even 35 years later, I'm pleading the fifth


My Ma is in her 80s, I don't admit anything.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

beachcomber said:


> if your trying to be quiet so as not to be found out ,how you going to eat your game,raw?


 Dakota fire hole is one method...


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## GoldenCityMuse (Apr 15, 2009)

You can eat it raw, or slice & marinate in vinegar.
Or I suppose douse it in that cheap homemade wine mentioned in the other thread. The alcohol will kill a lot of the germs & even a few parasites.


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

You can cook in the ground like a clam bake or luau.


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## Explorer (Dec 2, 2003)

shawnlee said:


> Dakota fire hole is one method...


Ah yes, the original rocket stove. Learned to make them when I was just a boy and they are really effective.


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## Ernie (Jul 22, 2007)

Even a Dakota hole will light up the night if you're not very careful with it.

The rule I was taught is this ....

If there is any risk at all of being caught, then it's a cold camp. No fire. If that means you don't eat then you _don't eat._

Eating a warm meal is NOT worth being caught and killed, nor is it worth being captured and thrown into the gulag. 

You light a fire only if the alternative is freezing to death.


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## sandc (Apr 26, 2010)

For silence I think I will stick to my bows. Can't hardly beat a good recurve. That being said, I do have a few of the crosman backpacker pistols running around here. Had the opportunity to shoot one of rifles in a .308 caliber and was impressed, but wouldn't want to rely on it in place of my bow. The pistols are nice in that I can take small game quietly with them consistently.


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## Pouncer (Oct 28, 2006)

My spouse is entranced with the Gamo Extreme Hunter. 1650 fps, oh my gosh. There is video of this gun taking down javalina too. That's fairly sizable game, in my book. We have two air rifles, both have some age on them (over 40 years) and they function perfectly. 

One pump for the kids to plink with at targets, four or five for squirrels and so forth. My only thing about the Gamo is that it's a 60 pound one! Not sure I could do that easily, certainly not repeatedly with my arthritis.

That said, I will bite the bullet this fall and get him one anyhow. He can find me a stealth quiet cross bow that won't break the bank, and we're even 

Now, how is it we make pellets? I have quite a bit of lead on hand.........


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## PhilJohnson (Dec 24, 2006)

I have an air rifle, a .17 cal Beeman break action. It works well enough for getting rid of small critters anything over a possum forgettaboutit. I also have a Crossman BB gun. It was one of the higher velocity ones they had, killed a lot of small critters with it like rats, bats, squirrels. The bb gun I use to kill small varmints in the house, thus far I've killed two mice with it, one squirrel, and two bats within the house. I shot a mouse once with a .22 revolver in the house. It was a dumb idea. Not only was I half deaf but the mouse exploded all over the place plus I had a hole in the ceiling. Air guns have their place, cheap and quiet way to keep my marksmanship up.


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## Just Cliff (Nov 27, 2008)

PhilJohnson said:


> I have an air rifle, a .17 cal Beeman break action. It works well enough for getting rid of small critters anything over a possum forgettaboutit. I also have a Crossman BB gun. It was one of the higher velocity ones they had, killed a lot of small critters with it like rats, bats, squirrels. The bb gun I use to kill small varmints in the house, thus far I've killed two mice with it, one squirrel, and two bats within the house. I shot a mouse once with a .22 revolver in the house. It was a dumb idea. Not only was I half deaf but the mouse exploded all over the place plus I had a hole in the ceiling. Air guns have their place, cheap and quiet way to keep my marksmanship up.


Also a bad idea is shooting a mouse in a toilet. Kills the mouse well enough but left a pin hole that squirted up everytime the toilet was flushed.


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## Ed Norman (Jun 8, 2002)

When I was single and renting a bad little place, I would sit in the recliner in the evening with my blowgun between my toes, watching the tv. When a mouse came out under the kitchen cupboard, I would nail him to the wall. 

I knew an old guy who used 22 shotshells, his baseboard trim looked like he had termites.


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## Del Gue (Apr 5, 2010)

I have a .177 pistol. It's good for killing rats at a fair distance. It will work on a bunny just as well. 

I've tried several different pellets, solids, flat nosed, and those 2 piece kind that had a lead body and a solid copper ball set in the nose. Those do some damage, and kill the rats better than a standard pellet.

The nice thing about pellets vs a .22 is, the ammo is more compact, and getting it wet is no worry. Rats cats birds and bunnies are your main bush meat anyway, they are plentiful, easy to sneak up on. I have a few air rifles I had as a kid and they still work fine after 1000s of shots. I can't see a new one wearing out in your lifetime under shtf conditions.

Plus they're quiet. You don't disturb the quiet or the other game.

Anything else you want to shoot, you have a rifle (you should anyway) to do it with. We used to go backpacking and we used a break barrel .177 to hunt bunnies and squirrels. Real backpacking, for a week or so sometimes just with the stuff on our backs. I have no doubt if that's all you had to hunt with, you'd eat good. In hindsight I should have been packing an AR-7.

A bow & arrow is a great idea. If you're a rotten shot like me, you'll starve to death. LOL


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## kirkmcquest (Oct 21, 2010)

Pouncer said:


> My spouse is entranced with the Gamo Extreme Hunter. 1650 fps, oh my gosh. There is video of this gun taking down javalina too. That's fairly sizable game, in my book. We have two air rifles, both have some age on them (over 40 years) and they function perfectly.
> 
> One pump for the kids to plink with at targets, four or five for squirrels and so forth. My only thing about the Gamo is that it's a 60 pound one! Not sure I could do that easily, certainly not repeatedly with my arthritis.
> 
> ...


I am a little wary about the Gamo hunter series because I read a bunch of reviews criticizing it's accuracy. I am considering the Walther falcon or the one from Remington instead. All have similar FPS...also you have to be careful with FPS claims because it depends on the type of Ammo used, lead ammo has lower FPS but may still produce a greater or equal impact...and lighter grain has higher FPS than heavy.

That sight 'pyramair' or whatever its called, does a good job of comparing apples to apples. They do their own tests and post the results for different pellet types.


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## mightybooboo (Feb 10, 2004)

PhilJohnson said:


> I have an air rifle, a .17 cal Beeman break action.


Ditto,cool gun for sure and does have its place IMO.Also a bow is nice too.

Mine isnt exactly quiet.Beeman.


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## Justin Thyme (Jun 3, 2011)

GoldenCityMuse said:


> The alcohol will kill a lot of the germs & even a few parasites.


A _few_ doesn't seem like _enough_.


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## kkbinco (Jun 11, 2010)

Pouncer said:


> ... Now, how is it we make pellets? I have quite a bit of lead on hand.........


Corbin has a swagging kit if you're interested. Kind of pricy though. http://www.corbins.com/pellets.htm


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