# Is it even possible for me to find a horse I can learn on?



## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm wondering if it's even possible for me to ever be able to handle a horse. I don't know if it's 100% me or if my gelding, Al, is just really unusually pushy. 

My heart is broken and I just can't stop crying about it but I can't deal with him anymore. I've had no less than 5 people tell me they really want him, that he's an awesome horse. The person I hired for lessons told me she's very picky about who she will "put a leg over" and that she would have bought him in a heartbeat if she'd known he was up for sale. She did tell me, though, that he's "a very pushy old gelding with a lot of tricks up his sleeve." 

It's just a nonstop freaking battle with him. I have taken to heart all the advice people have given me and I have never once given in to him when he has refused to do something I've asked him to do. I had to get spurs to force him to go forward when he refuses and I follow the advice to "ask, then demand, then force" by clicking then nudging with my feet and then touching gently with the spurs before finally having to dig them in.

Hooves were the same story - he started refusing to pick them up for me so I got the trainer over and we worked him for an hour before I finally got him picking them up again and I have never ever let him get away with not picking them up for me since then.

He's tricky - I saw him fooling a more experienced person a couple of days ago. He kept "accidentally" swinging his head and knocking grain on the floor while she was trying to use it to encourage him to get into the trailer. He got away with it 3 times before she figured out he was doing it deliberately.

Are there any horses out there who are softer touches? I'm willing to be persistent but I'm not wrestling a horse every time I try to go out to enjoy them. He's too smart for me. 

I don't mind a horse that is really forward. I have talked so much about Zippy - the green broke mare I was tricked into riding. I was totally in love with that horse. I stopped riding her for various reasons, but when I was riding her she never refused to do anything I asked her to do, never resisted me when I was on her back. She never tricked me. She was just so green and I was green too and I didn't want to get hurt. 

I have good balance and good control of my feet when I ride and I have got lessons on ground work and do exactly what I'm told to do. I just can not handle jerks and bullies and I really feel like Al is a jerk. 

Please be nice - I have already heard and heeded a lot of advice. I've done my best to surround myself with experts and they are all just so very helpful and everybody says they can "show me a few things" to get Al to behave. The problem is that they show me those things and I do them and he behaves until he figures out a way around it and then I'm calling people again. I'm exhausted from constantly being forced to assert myself and not ever being allowed to just relax and enjoy myself with this horse. 

Is it always going to be like this with every horse? Can I find one who is as sensitive as Zippy or was she only that way because she was green and hadn't figured out how to resist people yet?


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2011)

No, you just have yourself a bad egg. Sell him and buy a good egg. 
My mare is for sale, but she's 20, so I'm not really pushing her sale, if she goes, great, if not, oh well. She doesn't do jumps, just regular trails, she goes where you tell her and unless there is something bad in the way (a cow, snake, nutty dog, etc), she keeps going. 
He sounds more like a pony who's gotten away with everything for a long time and nothing but hard effort will now make him move. So he's either a project for someone who wants to deal with a pain in the butt or a pasture puff. 
Sell him and find a good, normal horse. 

I don't know Zippy's story, but green horses don't know anything yet, they haven't been taught and don't have miles under them, so they are usually all over the place until they learn. Then they become good horses or, like Al, they are allowed to get away with bad things and turn into a bad egg. So it's up to you and your trainer to make Zippy a good horse.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I wish I knew who to trust to help me find a good egg. Everybody just wants to sell their horses and when I bring an expert with me the horse will be just fine for the expert I'm sure.

I know he got away with a ton of stuff with the last person who had him. She was 90 lbs soaking wet and absolutely terrified of him. I only got him because my friend's daughter used to own him and her daughter said he was the best horse she ever had.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Well - good news. It's only been an hour since I put on my facebook page that I can't handle him and my friend's daughter who used to have him contacted me and she wants to buy him.


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## notwyse (Feb 16, 2014)

Find a good feedlot horse. Or a house previously used for lessons...and take a few lessons on him. Some horses spend a bit of time figuring out how not to do exactly what a Human wants.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

"feedlot horse"? What's that?


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

There is no amount of help or advice that is going to change Al with you. It is what it is with that boy. Sell him to the girl that owned him previously, and then go find yourself a good riding horse.

Do yourself a favor, take an impartial horse friend with you when you look at the next horse. YOU get on the horse and see if it does well with YOU, not a trainer who happens along with you to ride the horse for you. Your vet might be able to refer someone to you that could go along to look at prospective horses, and your vet might also know someone with a horse that would work for your needs. Go for a little older horse, say 14 or older, who has been ridden extensively on trails, but preferably not one that has been shown in any competitive western ranch work type shows. Those horses are going to EXPECT their riders to know their cues, to know their moves, and to know their speed and agility. Unless it is a really gentle gelding that was culled from those shows for not being competitive, which might work well for you because they will have a lot of training but not the drive to be competitive and will be easier to manage and handle. You need a horse that is forgiving when you make mistakes, not one that will take advantage of you when you make mistakes.

I never take my trailer when I go look at a horse to buy. Gives me the ability to walk a away if I get the urge to buy something that maybe isn't exactly what I need, but I really like and am having an "I want it" feeling rather than a "this is the correct horse for my needs" feeling. It works well if I have to go away for a while and think about the horse before I buy it.

There are GREAT horses out there, don't let Al dissuade you from owning a horse.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

What about horses that have been shown in western pleasure or something like that? I'm thinking that the lady who is training Ona for me might have friends who are selling their horses that didn't do well in AQHA for them. I imagine those are the types of horses she will be pointing me toward if I ask her for help. Her husband's family does a lot of endurance racing so I'm also thinking maybe one of his friends might sell an old endurance horse that isn't competitive any more.

The type of riding I would like to be able to do as soon as possible is just miles and miles of trails, most likely by myself because I have a hard time finding people to ride with me.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

IMO, an older, well trained former show horse might be a good choice. You want a horse that you can learn on, not one that needs training in what a rider wants. I would rule out any barrel, pole or other game horse. Some of them tend to get hotter the longer you ride. 
If the woman that is training Ona does show all over, in class A shows, she might be someone that could help you.
One thing Im not flexible on, the seller gets on and rides the horse first, or whoever has been riding it. I saw a horse go over on a friend when she was assured that that it was kid broke. She broke a hip very badly.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

fffarmergirl said:


> The type of riding I would like to be able to do as soon as possible is just miles and miles of trails, most likely by myself because I have a hard time finding people to ride with me.


In my opinion, this is really an exceptional skill - especially for a horse to do this with a novice rider, and alone. Yes, there are horses that can do it, of course. But there are many factors that make this work -- the horse's training and trail experience are probably 60+% of this (and therefore, are probably not going to be cheap). The temperament of the horse, and the confidence of the rider are the other 40%. 

The problem - as I know it, because I am also a rider that began as an adult, and therefore don't have 20-30 years of experience -- is that someone really confident can make almost any horse do this with ease, but *I* can't. Not tomorrow, anyway. You just can't compress 20-30 years of experience into 2-3 years and expect it to be as good. 

Unless...maybe, you buy the rare, truly confident, bombproof trail horse -- and they are out there, but can command the price they desire.

So....I guess I would ask whether there is an interim "goal" you might be able to achieve? Can you do arena work; group trail rides; shows with a trainer?

Sorry if this is not the answer you want -- it probably IS possible to find that perfect horse....but I would argue it would be the exceptional horse, not the average horse - and you would need to pay for that exceptional ability.


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## offthegrid (Aug 11, 2009)

Molly Mckee said:


> IMO, an older, well trained former show horse might be a good choice. You want a horse that you can learn on, not one that needs training in what a rider wants. I would rule out any barrel, pole or other game horse. Some of them tend to get hotter the longer you ride.
> If the woman that is training Ona does show all over, in class A shows, she might be someone that could help you.
> One thing Im not flexible on, the seller gets on and rides the horse first, or whoever has been riding it. I saw a horse go over on a friend when she was assured that that it was kid broke. She broke a hip very badly.


Yes! Always make the owner get on first (or provide a rider, whatever). Just had this conversation with a friend of mine (novice, older rider) that never thought about this. Yikes!

Also - in my experience - on my local Craigslist, I would equate the words "gaming" or "gymkhana" horse to be almost equivalent with "green broke" and/or "not trained". AKA "too *fast* for me, but might be a good gaming horse." I don't think I've ever seen the word "gymkhana" with a horse ad that described any actual training or competition - ever. But, if I saw an ad that intrigued me - I'd ask for lots more details, and would want to see someone else ride that horse before I even considered getting on.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

I guess for an interim goal I could train to do western pleasure or something and just go on some group trail rides. Group trail rides would be few and far between because I can't seem to get a group together. When people do endurance races they are essentially trail riding alone, right? Maybe an old retired endurance horse would do it?


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Molly Mckee said:


> IMO, an older, well trained former show horse might be a good choice. You want a horse that you can learn on, not one that needs training in what a rider wants. I would rule out any barrel, pole or other game horse. Some of them tend to get hotter the longer you ride.
> If the woman that is training Ona does show all over, in class A shows, she might be someone that could help you.
> One thing Im not flexible on, the seller gets on and rides the horse first, or whoever has been riding it. I saw a horse go over on a friend when she was assured that that it was kid broke. She broke a hip very badly.


Molly is right, and I should have specified that the owner should be on the horse first, not the buyer. I meant by saying you should ride the horse and not your trainer, that you need to be able to confidently ride the horse no matter what your trainer can or can't do, and you should be the one testing out the horse after watching the owner or rider get on. I should have been very specific...

I agree also that normal western pleasure horses are much cooler in temperament that the game horses. She put that well in her post. I think the Reiners, cutters, etc type horses are so trained to leg that you better be as well trained in their discipline to handle them correctly and safely. They can and will come out from under you in a heartbeat if you give the wrong signal, where a less hot horse will forgive your mistake.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

fffarmergirl said:


> I guess for an interim goal I could train to do western pleasure or something and just go on some group trail rides. Group trail rides would be few and far between because I can't seem to get a group together. When people do endurance races they are essentially trail riding alone, right? Maybe an old retired endurance horse would do it?


There may be a trail riding group in your area. You can research it online. Everywhere I have lived there were such groups.


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## Molly Mckee (Jul 8, 2006)

We have always done a lot of trail riding, no matter what else we were doing, for the horses sake as well as ours. Going around in circles has got to be boring for the horse, as well as the rider. Once you are fairly sure the new horse understands what you want it to do I would ride outside the ring. Are there fields where you could be seen from your house or the barn where the horse is? Do you have cell service where you want to ride? Once you feel confident in the horse I would go ahead and ride where I wanted to, as long as someone knew where I was, my phone worked and I wore a helmet and maybe a vest. I have been riding most of my life, so maybe I don't worry as much.
Our kids rode endurance years ago, they went out on trails from the time they were eight or so--but not alone, usually with a sister. No one ever had a problem, neither did I, either as a kid or adult. You will know if you can trust your horse. Can you have an accident? Of course, but as long as you use common sense, the risk should not be to great. Riding with a bunch of riders that don't know what they as doing may be worse than riding alone.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Almost all the riding I have ever done has been riding alone on our dirt roads and in our fields and trails. I haven't ridden the horses more than two miles from home though. Zippy absolutely loved it. She would have kept going further if I had let her but the more I rode her the faster she wanted to go. She and I were both green so I decided to stop riding her for various reasons. I loved that horse. I couldn't go under low branches with her and she acted up a bit in open fields but she was great otherwise. Maybe I will be able to buy her next year when she weans her foal.

I just assumed all horses would enjoy that. Maybe I have been too hard on ole Al, expecting him to love it as much as Zippy did. He doesn't mind getting brushed with branches or going under them. He loves being on a trail in the woods but he is one humongous pain in the butt if we have to cross a wildlife trail and we have tons of those. When we would get to one he would refuse to go forward and back into the nearest ditch and start turning around to head home. I had to fight him so hard to force him forward. I got spurs and they worked fine on the first ride without me having to dig in or kick him. By the end of the second ride he was refusing to get out of the ditch unless I kicked him really hard. I know it was a trust issue but it's not like I just took him down a trail right away. I spent months working with him on the ground before our first ride, got lessons.

Anyway. I'm glad I sold him. He was soextremely scary to load and just generally a bully. He was the older "been there done that" horse and zippy was the green broke one. Go figure.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I found a lovely mare that was 17 yrs old to try riding again after 20 years off the horses. She was a perfect baby sitter, but all I wanted to do was walk quietly and get the feel of a horse under me again, my balance and confidence was shot. Star was a total love, though even so she tried to convince me she didn't know how to longe and got away with that for a bit until she actually did one day... then I knew better and she quickly shaped up. 

They are out there and I'm sure you can find a great horse. Don't be afraid to let a horse go to a home that is more suited if it is not the horse for you. Keep going until you find that right fit - a more forward horse with good manners and sound basic training sounds good. Al sounds pretty sour and like he needs some retraining - not much fun for you!

I agree that the more specialized reining, cutting and gaming horses will likely be too hot and respond too quickly to cues you might not even know you are giving. A Western pleasure horse might be a great trail companion, or it might only know how to behave in a show ring. I see horses advertised on our CL ads all the time that have ridden and packed elk in the back country, I'm willing to bet they are pretty stable solid horses. 

There's a horse training outfit in this area that works with a lot of horses to get them well broken and desensitized to a lot of different things as well as going forward through tarps, water, bridges, etc. I suspect that something from that sort of trainer might be a good fit. 

Take your time and be patient. I'm sure you can find a good horse for you. Over the years I've had several that you would have enjoyed, that were stable, willing and fun to ride.


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## malinda (May 12, 2002)

A lot of endurance horses can be pretty hot too - they're basically trail horses who go fast and don't have much actual "training". I rode much of the endurance circuit in the upper Midwest a couple years ago (if I remember correct, that's where you live?).

A 4-H/kids horse might be a good horse for you. I'd advise against some of the WP horses unless maybe they are very low-level 4-H/open type show horses. The AQHA/APHA/ApHC type of WP horses are often trained backwards with "spur stops", using your outside leg to turn, etc., and you don't need that kind of confusion as a beginner rider. 

Definitely have the seller ride the horse first, THEN your trainer, THEN you. Your trainer should know you well enough to be able to tell after a few minutes of him/her riding a prospective horse, if that horse will be suitable for you. It also would be really helpful for you to find a more experienced rider to go with you on your trail rides, perhaps with some compensation for their time. You need an experienced friend/trainer/whatever to help you through the sticky spots and possibly ride your horse for you once in a while. I know it seems like you're just forking out money to people when it comes to horses, but that's how it is, especially as an adult new to riding. Horses are expensive, but you getting injured is far more expensive. 

And yes, be patient. Easy for us here on the internet to say, I know. You may need to look at or try 100 different horses before you find one that is the right one for you.


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## SFM in KY (May 11, 2002)

I'm not sure where you are located, but my personal choice if I were looking for a safe, reliable horse to trail ride would be a semi-retired ranch horse ... something that isn't quite up to before daylight to after dark rides in rough country but one that has had a job all his/her life and has pretty much seen it all. You can still find them that will push with a novice rider, but it's less likely with a ranch horse, who has never been allowed to get away with 'tricks'.

I wish there were some easy suggestions to find the kind of horse you need/want but unfortunately there aren't. A few good suggestions here and I agree that endurance horses and 'game' horses may be a bit too 'tight-wound' to be suitable. A horse that has been conditioned for endurance riding may not be quiet natured enough to deal with slow trail rides every few days ... a type "A" horse doesn't always appreciate leisure. I'm also a bit wary of arena show horses ... if they haven't had a lot of 'outside' miles in addition to the show training, they may not transition to 'out in the woods' with horse-eating monsters hiding in the bushes.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm just going to insert something in here, not trying to start an argument. While for most horses and riders, green plus green equals black and blue, this is not always the case. Much depends on the temperament of both the horse and the rider. I've known people that have gotten horses like this. The horse, from the time you first put a saddle on it's back seems eager to please it's rider, and it doesn't matter how experienced the rider is. Zippy may very well have been that type of horse. W/out knowing either you or the horse, I can't say for sure. 

But, if you enjoyed riding her and she did well for you, maybe instead of looking for a horse to own at this point in time, lease a horse for a few months, take lessons and go on trail rides. Then by the time she's weaned her foal, you can see if she is the horse for you.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thank you all so very much for the suggestions and for the encouragement. I have been beating myself up so bad for not being able to make it work with Al. I had the impression that buying a horse was a permanent commitment and it would be almost unthinkable to give up on him. The girl who had him before (Betty's daughter, by the way), is just ecstatic to have him back so it's a win-win-win situation for all of us.

We dont' have ranches up here, or working horses. My family in Kansas has some working horses and it would not be entirely unthinkable for me to bring one up from Kansas but I think that would be really expensive and difficult. Up here the only work you ever hear of a horse doing is dragging trees out of the woods or pulling a plow but I only hear about that from old people and I haven't seen anybody working a horse up here.

The possibility of buying Zippy absolutely brings tears of joy to my eyes. I. Love. That. Horse!!! She wasn't for sale when I was leasing her but Betty has mentioned a few times since that she might be willing to sell her to me now. 

I've decided I absolutely will not allow myself to get another horse until Spring, at least, and until then I'll just find stuff to do with other horses. Whatever horse I end up with, I'm going to get lessons on him/her (most likely her - I love mares) from day #1 and get all of the groundwork down pat. I'm going to do things in the right order and give it every possible chance of working.

Betty has this one horse (Willow) I've just been really wanting to spend time with but I only had time for one horse so every time she came up to me I had to resist my desire to bring her in the barn and spend time with her. I can't remember the circumstances of how Betty got her......if I remember right she was free or next to free......but she got her to be a brood mare. She's only seven but she's just really level headed and from what I heard during all my eavesdropping her previous owner put a lot of time into her. A couple of teenage girls were out there riding her and said she was a lot of fun, that she enjoyed being ridden and was eager to please and very easy to get along with. She absolutely loves water and they were riding her around in puddles. The only problem they had with her was that she really wanted to roll in the puddles, but they were able to keep her from rolling. Betty has been hinting around for a long time that she thought I should start riding Willow, but after what happened with Zippy I was not about to get attached to another one of Betty's horses. 

Betty contacted me last night and apologized for the Zippy thing and said if I want to pick another horse to ride she swears she will absolutely not breed the horse and she will let me get lessons on it from whoever I want to get lessons from. I told her that I wouldn't refuse to ride a pregnant horse but I'm not riding a pregnant horse that needs to have her teeth done. I'll have to find out what she wants in exchange. I've spent the last 2 years helping her clean her barn but I got so mad about the Zippy deal that I stopped helping. Her daughter has grown up and moved out and she's on her own over there so it's a lot of work for her, and she's in her sixties.

So I guess things are already looking up in the world. I'll play with Willow this winter and use the $ I was spending on Al to get some good training on Ona right away, get her started with ground driving this fall and see what happens in the Spring. I've been told by a lot of people that Ona would be a good pleasure horse. I think she'd do well in shows. The lady training her (I think I'll call her Showy Shelly) has said quite a few times that she thinks I'd enjoy showing her in halter and that she's a "very beautiful mover and has a really nice jog on her." So - whatever horse I end up getting next, will not be a show horse. It needs to be a fun trail horse with a lot of get up and go but not too much horse for me. Then maybe after I get really good at riding I can find my dream endurance horse that I've been fantasizing about. If I"m not too old by then, that is.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

If I'm not mistaken, all the horses you think are good options are green. You have classified your own skills as advanced beginner so why not take the time to find an advanced, well trained horse so you can improve your skills instead of fighting with horses that keep testing your confidence.

You speak unkindly about your friend and you were not tricked into riding anything. Nobody is, we review the situation, assess the risk and make decisions, just like you did.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Yeah.....You have a point there........


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## Cashs Cowgirl (Jan 26, 2006)

Well I will beg to differ about all the untrained endurance horses...I know many friends/people that work hard on training. Of course I also know some people that do not need to be out on the horses that they have until some further training is done. It's like that in all types of disciplines.

I would look for a horse that was carrying junior riders that did midpack to slow rides. They are normally been there done that horses and still have get up, but normally are quite used to all sorts of things on the trail. A solid horse will cost you...but then again, that's the cheapest part of actually owning them.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

I believe that every category has horses that range from beginner to advanced but I also feel that it's also a very good idea to get a solid handle on riding before one takes on a specialized event that tends to require a fair bit of skill. 

I might be wrong but it seems to me that it's a good idea to get a good seat and hands before taking on barrel racing, roping, cutting or penning so I'm thinking endurance riding would be similar.


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## Forcast (Apr 15, 2014)

on the internet look up feedlot horse for sale. I had a feetlot horse and he was the best horse we had. I took someone with me that had a lot of horse knowhow.
Im in west Va eastern panhandle and we have 3 horse rescues 
Friends had the kids rent horse for classes and then moved on to for sale horse to keep taking the classes.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

What exactly is a feedlot horse? Is it a horse that's been used to work cattle in feedlots? 

Although it really bothers me to even consider this I think I will just not ride anything but a lesson horse until Spring. I'll take all the $ I was spending on Al and spend it on good groundwork lessons with Ona, and riding lessons on Showy Shelly's old mare. Then in the Spring I'll be learning from Shelly while she trains Ona and I may or may not have time to spend with another horse. 

There is definitely something about younger horses that is attractive to me and I'm not sure what it is. I guess it's mostly that they haven't learned a lot of tricks yet. Yeah they might be more sensitive and less predictable but they haven't figured out how to rub a person on a fence or under a tree branch or knock grain out of their hands etc. etc. I might have unfair assumptions about the trained ones because the only two trained horses I've really spent time with have been Al (rolling my eyes here) and a pony I had when I was a kid. I didn't learn much on the pony because I didn't have anybody to teach me, and he also knew every trick in the book.

It seems to me that a lot of the trained "been there done that" horses are just too smart for me. 

Another reason that I think I've been kind of unconsciously steering toward younger horses is that I need to be able to know how to correct a horse that's acting up . Ona's going to be acting up a lot for the first few years, right? Even though I've got her with a really good trainer, wouldn't it be unrealistic of me to think she won't be acting up on me for several years? Am I wrong to think that the way to get prepared for that is to spend time getting lessons on a horse that's not green but also not perfectly trained?

How much does the age of the horse really say about how well-trained it is? Can you pretty much assume a seven-year-old is going to be green? I know it sounds like a dumb question but seriously - isn't it quite possible that a seven year old really does have a lot of miles under her? Don't diss me or rip me apart for asking, please. Showy Shelly has a four year old that she rides every day. By the time he's seven he'll have over a thousand rides on him. I would say a horse with thousands of rides is not green but what do I know? What is the definition of green, really?

From what I've heard (and I realize I have to take everything I've heard with a grain of salt), Willow has only had one owner before now and that lady did a heck of a lot of trail riding with her. If a horse has a dependable "whoa" and goes forward when it's asked to go forward and has been proven to be traffic safe, crosses bridges and rivers, and doesn't buck or rear and loads nicely - it seems to me that horse would be a heck of a lot nicer and safer to ride than Al was even though he was older and "better trained."

And also - as far as getting an older trained endurance horse and the talk of endurance horses being trained or untrained or too fast . . . . is a forward horse necessarily a bad thing, as long as it's whoa works? And what makes it trained or untrained? If it can do what you want it to do (travel through the woods safely) doesn't that make it trained in the trail discipline? Once a person has decent balance and can handle the reins and not bounce and keep their seat when a horse spooks, wouldn't that person be OK on a forward horse?

I'm not asking these questions to be contentious - I'm going to take things into consideration all winter long while I debate whether or not to go ahead and get another horse and what type of horse to get if I do.

I just know myself well enough to know I'm just not going to be at all interested in a horse that doesn't want to move. If I want to lollygag down a trail I can do it on my own two feet. I want a horse who will stop when I ask it to stop and not freak out about every stupid thing and one I won't have to kick to make it go. I'm not interested in cantering because I would not feel at all safe cantering on a trail yet (if ever) but I really do enjoy trotting - a lot. Zippy had a very nice fast trot and I don't know what to call it - the trot just before a horse breaks into a canter. That was a nice way to ride. I enjoyed it and it really gave my core muscles a workout, and fitness is one reason I want to ride.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

It is not necessarily the age or the training of the horse that is going to determine whether or not the horse is going to act up. What I've found to be more important is the temperament of the horse, and even where in the herd it stands. 

The one that I have the most problems with is my horse that's in the #2 position. She tests me more than my other 2 combined. If I didn't know what I was doing w/her, I'd be afraid of her. More than once, she's aimed a pair of back hooves in my direction, but she's never close enough when she does this to actually make contact. She gets put in her place pretty quick when that happens.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Kind of like messing with somebody in middle management who's trying to claw their way to the top, Dizzy?

What herd position is most likely to have an even temperament, do you think? The low ones on the totem pole can be a real pain, too, I'm assuming. I'm only basing that on my goat th at's the lowest on the totem pole. She is afraid all the time and it makes her a pain the butt to deal with.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

Those that are in the middle of the herd. Those that are at the top 2 positions and those at the bottom will normally test the most. The alpha since they want to see if you're able to lead them. The beta since they want to be at the top and the omega cuz they want someone else at the bottom.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Cashs Cowgirl said:


> A solid horse will cost you...but then again, that's the cheapest part of actually owning them.


Ain't that the truth. I've spent far more on board and care than I spent purchasing my horses, and I've only had horses almost 2 years.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Willow hangs out with the herd boss who is a gelded mustang who seems to forget he's gelded. I don't know if she hangs out with him because she's in the #2 spot . . . . .

Zippy didn't even have a spot. She didn't like the herd  She just hung out all by herself. That was one of the things I adored about her. She was not the least bit herd bound. She pretty much gave them the finger. That mustang did take her on as his girl for quite a while and that led to some problems. They kept breaking fences and running off together but I don't think she was really in the #2 spot. For some reason it seems he just adopted her as his girl and bossed her around. I don't know if that's what he's doing with Willow now that Zippy has been taken out of the herd and moved to a smaller paddock.


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## Cashs Cowgirl (Jan 26, 2006)

I want to respond to a few things after reading many of your responses. Hopefully it all comes across with kindness as I mean it that way. But I am going to take back my suggestion at getting a seasoned endurance horse and just address each question with my tiny .02 


fffarmergirl said:


> There is definitely something about younger horses that is attractive to me and I'm not sure what it is. I guess it's mostly that they haven't learned a lot of tricks yet.
> 
> It's probably like many people....They want that 'baby' to train and grow with...that is a job best left to people who know what they are doing. An inexperienced person can screw a horse up quick. A young one is quick, reactive and dangerous at times. You need to know immediately how to react or not react. You need to understand how to move those feet appropriately. They have their own tricks trust me...and they can be dangerous because they haven't learned to respect humans properly.
> 
> ...


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## Convoy (Dec 2, 2012)

Without know you or the horse first thing that come to mind is herd dynamics - if the horse doesn't see you a the 'top dog' then problems will occur. Granted some horses are just plain stubborn but your post reminded me of my sister and her one horse who refused to load. She ended up getting an old cowboy to work with him which wasn't pretty but after an hour he would load with cowboy darts.

One thing I think I should mention also a horse which is constantly testing the rider as long as is isn't dangerous is the best trainer when your learning plus if your perverse like me makes a fun ride.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

How many horses are in the herd? I'd say that Willow is probably in the #3 spot. She gets some protection from being w/the alpha, but doesn't have to fight to be top dog. 

I only have the 3, and it's interesting to watch the herd dynamics. My alpha is my gelding, Stormy. My beta is my bratty pony, Licorice. And my omega is my Arab, Misty. 

Stormy is in love w/Misty and gets quite upset if she's not in the field w/him. He keeps calling if we're any place else on the farm, but calms down if we trailer off the property-until we get back. Then, he starts running the fence line until she's back in the field. He will also charge the one fence to try to get to the geldings there. I have a good fence w/electric on it for that reason. But he will still, at times, drive Misty away. He puts up w/nothing from Licorice.

Licorice knows better than to mess w/Stormy, and she's normally pretty easy going. But some days, she starts really going for Misty. If she does this while I'm there, I put an end to it. And, Licorice is the one that tests me the most. She keeps me on my toes. 

Misty is at the bottom of the herd. Some omegas are hard to work w/but not Misty. I think it's because of the amount of work I did w/her when I first got her. She's a rescue and I spent a ton of time w/her doing groundwork B4 I ever attempted to get on her back. She had no training whatsoever B4 I got her. 

In all probability, I had no business getting her. I did not grow up w/horses, didn't have lessons as a kid, and only rode once in a blue moon until my kids were grown. Had a few lessons over the years as an adult, but have learned that everything I was ever taught was wrong, so I'm glad I wasn't able to continue w/them. I leased a horse for a few months, then got my own horse-a 20 yo Arab. Had her for just over 2 years B4 I lost her to colic. But, I've done all the training on her and am now taking lessons on her and learning how to ride correctly. I must have done something right because (other than in her own field at the farm where I board), she is not overly spooky. I've had more than one person be completely shocked when they realize she's an Arab. And, there is no question as to what she is.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

8-10 horses are in the herd. It varies. Stormy's behavior toward Misty sounds like Mayco's behavior with Zippy. I don't know if he's got to that point with Willow yet because I haven't seen anyone take her away from him yet but I imagine that will be the case with her too. It's good to hear that everything worked out well for you and you're still into the horses, Dizzy, because it sounds like our situations have started out similarly. I'm also learning that most of what I've been taught may be wrong and now I will be getting lessons from someone who definitely knows what she is doing.

Convoy - Al was definitely making me perverse. I had some pretty perverse fantasies as I was driving him past the packing plant LOL. If I'd had somebody riding with me when I was on him I probably could have really learned a lot but with where I had him, I just wasn't going to learn anything. Loading him up was too much of a problem to get him to someone who could have taught me right.

Cash's Cowgirl I truly appreciate your response!!

I feel disappointed but also like a great load has been lifted off my shoulders since I have decided to stop messing around with horses and start doing things right. Things will go a lot more slowly and probably be a lot less exciting but in the end I"ll learn faster and have much better results. I'll ask Shelly to start me from the ground up, back to the very very basics, and go from there.

Another thought that's niggling the back of my mind.....before I got the horses I had a bicycle that actually got used. Since I got the horses it's been hanging in my garage. It's a very nice bike. One day I got on it for a ride and just kept riding - went 67 miles and then had to call my husband to come and get me and drive me home  I wouldn't mind doing that again. If I don't buy that 2nd horse maybe I'll have time to. It has a good whoa on it and it goes when I ask it to go and it has never once backed into a ditch and threatened to head back home.


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

In defense of Al...

Al is the kind of horse that has the most to teach you in being a horseman. Not saying you need to tackle him or someone like him right now, just saying, that is what he is. He reflects your anxiety and he would be an excellent teacher to help you learn to control it and be peace. 

There is a saying I like to think of, "stand like mountain, flow like water". Be a rock, be grounded, yet be flexible and ready for anything. have a deep rock solid seat yet be ready to move in any direction(feel the horse). Be a leader when needed, be a companion when needed. The companion part is what a lot of horse people...forget a lot. Being top dog boss and asserting that all the time 24/7 is stressful, and those in these positions in the animal world burn out fast, are always challenged and a newer younger stronger one is always ready to take the place. Sometimes this degenerates into bullying from the perspective of the horse, especially when the reason for the assertion(nipping kicking, getting run over etc) is not identified and dealt with. Horses aren't always just being spoiled brats. They also hurt and are afraid and confused. Ie if they are dominated for being hurt, the dominator is seen as a bully and not respected. If their pain is acknowledged and addressed, you have made huge progress in the companion relationship and won respect and trust. 

Ride as many horses as you can, every time you get near a horse there is something to learn, and give. Gratitude to every one you come to. Every one. Good luck!


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## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

PS, I'm not saying strong "leadership" isn't needed. Just, don't be a dictator on a power trip ha!


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Nobody wants to see you quit riding and the poor choices you've had for horses has now left you frustrated and ready to throw in the towel. 

I have repeatedly suggested you find an older horse so this wouldn't be as likely to happen. You simply need a good honest horse that has enough experience to forgive the mistakes you will make and we've all made them. The right horse will allow you to focus on the skills you need to keep advancing instead of focusing on training deficiencies, high strung and bad manners. 

Somebody keeps trying to convince you to settle for not quite right and training is a snap ever since you got the filly and now you're frustrated and ready to throw in the towel. 

In my opinion, the best thing you could do is contact your family member, get them to find you a nice solid, finished or retiring ranch horse and learn to concentrate on enjoying riding instead of listening to people who are literally selling you a line of crap. 

I've had more than a pm's because people think I've been unfair to you but I'm honestly trying to prevent you from getting hurt or simply quitting something you should enjoy. At the level you're at, you be learning and growing, not trying to fix problem horses because advanced beginners are not ready for remedial training.


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## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

My mare is the boss mare in the field. She takes charge and that's fine in the field. She is also well trained, and completely confident in her abilities in the arena. But even so, I had to LEARN how to ride her, what buttons to push to get her to gait properly and cantering is still being learned as I am figuring out where my leg has to be to cue her to change leads, etc. 

It's a partnership and she teaches me a lot just being herself as she knows her job better than I do so I do defer to her at times in gaits and changes in gaits. I paid a lot of $$ to get a horse that knew her job so I could learn from her. I also take lessons, participate in clinics and watch videos. I participate in clinics that have nothing to do with dressage so I gain confidence in my ability to control my horse..the mounted police training was great for that. If you can push a horse through fire and smoke, through barking and lunging dogs, sirens blaring and maintain control while going over bridges through fire and smoke..it goes a long way towards developing confidence in your ability to ride and maintain secure seating.

As far as trail riding, I bought Josey and took her straight out on a trail ride two weeks later. Never knew she did not know about trail rides..we survived quite nicely because Josey is a brave horse, but she looked to me in areas of ditches, water, and deer jumping out. She spooked a little but only did bunny hops in place as she waited to see if I was going to freak out, I patted her and she relaxed and gave me the "foolish glance" look she can do when she knows she shouldn't have done something. Almost an "oh sorry, I am so.embarrassed".

Point is I don't want to train a horse from the start anymore. I just want to ride and be as safe as possible at my age. I want to learn a new discipline on a horse that has all her marbles and will try to do what I ask even if she doesn't know what I am asking. She doesn't buck, run off, refuse, or quit. Young horses can rarely be trusted to do the right thing all the time as they are still learning and haven't proven themselves as beginner "safe and friendly". There is a reason that green horse and green rider result in black and blue. 

I wanted a horse that had a "busy" mind and wants to learn. It took less than a month for Josey to figure out turn on the haunches and do it properly. She gave me back up, side pass, and all sorts of things in between that she knew might be the right response. She never got mad, sullen or quit. then one day the light bulb came on and there she was, doing a great turn on the haunches with my instructor beaming. We practice but we also go trail riding and I use fields to school her instead of the ring. She's getting more training but in a more fun environment.

Get a well trained, solid citizen horse and take some lessons from a reputable instructor and you will have more fun and less anxiety. Horses are investments in money, my DH says they are money pits with no bottom, I agree totally. Josey will likely be my last horse as I probably won't ride longer than age 70 or so and she is eleven now, maybe we will have 15-20 more years together. Then we can both retire and eat oatmeal and watch the sun set.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

The last thing I want is to give up the dream of being able to ride and I have been crying off and on for days over it. It's a dream I have had since I was a little girl and I thought I had finally found a way to make it come true. The problem is - the only people who have been available to help me are just not capable. I will get to know Shelly and see if she will be a good person to learn from. Hopefully she will be but I'm not getting my hopes up any more.

If I'm up for considering a horse in the Spring maybe I'll post ads of the ones I'm looking at and get suggestions. People lie so much, though, so an ad probably wouldn't tell us much.


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## dizzy (Jun 25, 2013)

I hear ya on not being able to find someone to learn from. I've found that most people don't know as much as they think they know.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

fffarmergirl said:


> The last thing I want is to give up the dream of being able to ride and I have been crying off and on for days over it. It's a dream I have had since I was a little girl and I thought I had finally found a way to make it come true. The problem is - the only people who have been available to help me are just not capable. I will get to know Shelly and see if she will be a good person to learn from. Hopefully she will be but I'm not getting my hopes up any more.
> 
> If I'm up for considering a horse in the Spring maybe I'll post ads of the ones I'm looking at and get suggestions. People lie so much, though, so an ad probably wouldn't tell us much.


I'm not sure that people lie as much as the fail to offer additional information if someone doesn't ask. I also think that you have fallen into the trap that a lot of new riders do and you hear certain parts of dialogue that make sense to you and filter what doesn't. 

An example would be the suggestions that you find a more mature, well trained horse (which we do know aren't easy to find) and then someone suggests you look at herd dynamics and as a beginner, you think, 'eureka, it's way easier to consider herd dynamics than to find that diamond in a pasture.' 

It's so easy for new riders to frustrate like you are when they end up with a serious of problem horses because you don't have the skill to identify a vice vs a horse walking over a timid rider. That doesn't mean you won't have those skills, you simply don't have them right now. An older, finished horse that fits you perfectly is worth 100 almost right. 

What ever became of that older mare you spoke of getting because the owner's health was declining? She sounded like she might have been a good fit.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

The older mare never materialized - the lady was a friend of Betty's and Betty went to do the hooves and when she came back from doing them she said I probably wouldn't want the mare but she didn't really say why.

I only can hear what makes sense and the rest doesn't make any sense to me so I don't understand it. When I don't understand something I don't remember it. I can't tell the difference between a good horse that's just testing me and a bad horse, or a green horse and a well-trained horse. I can't ever get those skills if I don't spend time with horses and the only horses available for me to spend time with without buying are Betty's brood mares who are all pretty young and none of them very well-trained. I can't buy a horse and have it here to learn on without help or I will ruin its training, and I can't bring them to Betty's to learn on because I just can't learn from her and she refuses to allow anybody who knows more than her on her property so I can't get lessons there, except from the one friend of hers she has approved me to get lessons from. I can't tell when somebody's not telling the whole truth about a horse.

I'm gradually learning but when I was deciding which horse to ride and Betty directed me to Zippy I sincerely believed that an 8-year-old horse was somewhat old and a good age for a beginner, especially since she told me she had a lot of trail rides on her. I only found out from Betty's daughter that my first trail ride on Zippy was only Zippy's 2nd trail ride ever and I only found out from the people on this forum that an 8 year old horse is far from old. Not too long ago you accused me of lying about what happened with Zippy. 

Now she's got a 7-year-old that she's saying the same thing about and I'm just not falling for it. I fall in love with those horses and it breaks my heart when I can't keep them. The time it has taken me to first get to know Zippy and then get to know Al has wasted a year of my life and I'm still not any closer to being able to ride a horse. I put tons and tons of effort into them and it was just wasted effort because I didn't know what I was doing.

I guess I'm being negative there. I truly did learn a lot of really good lessons and I feel like I really have a good seat now. But - I don't have a riding horse that I can use.

In time maybe it will happen. We'll just see who I meet through Shelly and what type of person Shelly is.

It makes me feel hurt and angry when people constantly tell me "your friend doesn't know anything whatsoever about horses and she's lying to you and cheating you," then when I believe them and vent about it on here those very same people say "you're being mean to your friend and accusing her of things that aren't true" and basically accuse me of being some sort of liar and manipulator. This forum and Betty have been my only sources of help and information.

WR what is your name and how old are you and can you post a picture or something - maybe seeing your face or knowing more about you would give me a better feel of if you're being mean to me or if you truly care. You answer all my posts so that gives me the feeling you care about beginners but so many of your posts contradict each other so that makes me think you either don't remember me from one post to another or you've deliberately been hurtful.

My name is Stacey. I'm an honest 45-year-old nurse living in the middle of nowhere with my 63-year-old husband. My family is 800 miles away and I live in an area where it is very difficult to make friends. I come on this forum for support. I don't believe in lying and I do not lie, nor do I deliberately manipulate people. 

You became angry with me years ago when I said some things about Betty and left others out. Specifically I said she was giving herself a very bad image by leaving her "ugly" horses out front and her "pretty" horses were hidden away. You assumed I was being shallow because I didn't state the whole truth - which was that the "ugly" horses were neglected horses of boarders who weren't paying, during a year when hay prices were sky high and after Betty's husband had a heart attack and couldn't make hay. So the neglected underweight horses were right out in plain sight and Betty's nice cared-for brood mares were further out back, which gave people the impression that all of the horses rather than just some were hungry or neglected. I didn't share their true conditions online because I was afraid somebody would react by turning her into animal control when she was doing everything she could to get them a new home and get them fed. I can tell you about this now because she doesn't have one single skinny horse on her property anymore so you can send whoever you want and she won't get in trouble. Somehow you got the impression that I was saying only beautiful registered horses were worthy of owning and after that you got the wrong impression of me and accused me of being shallow and only caring about whether a horse was shiny or not.

I put up with a lot of stuff from people and tend to befriend underdogs and people I've been warned to stay away from, because I feel sorry for those people and also because the non underdogs around here already have all the friends they need and aren't interested in making new ones. Betty is one of those underdogs and she is also my neighbor. I realize much of what people say about her is true and much is not true and she's not as bad as she seems in some ways, worse than she seems in others. She's been my only live source of horse information and she still knows much more than I do.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

Ok Stacey, the one thing I can comment on is that you HAVE learned a lot and the last year is not wasted at all, though you haven't yet found the horse that will be good for you to go on with. I think you would benefit if you just chilled a bit and assumed that everyone here is actually trying to help you, it just gets confusing because a) you are not clear about things that you don't really understand (can't so much be helped, so just be patient until we "get" what you mean) and b) it can be really hard to communicate clearly in forums - you may not understand the advice you are being given either. 

As for trying to stand up for people that seem to be picked on (that you are warned away from), very often there is good reason for those warnings, been there, done that myself. I've found its wiser to be cautious of the people you are warned away from than to champion their cause. It can take a few years to discover who they really are. 

Please read this in a friendly tone. As for wr, she is our forum administrator, very knowledgeable and actually quite kind. As you get to know her, you will come to understand and appreciate her viewpoint and the advice and information she has for us. 

BTW, I am Carol, I don't at this time have a horse and consider myself to have a pretty good background from my youth with horses, lessons and living in a horsey family. At various times in my adult life I have had horses too, including the one in my avatar most recently. I have a lot of background in breeding and showing dogs. I'm 60, very soon to be 61.


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## aoconnor1 (Jun 19, 2014)

Stacey, my name is Amy. I have owned horses all of my life (I am coming up hard on 50 years old, do the math!) and right now run a herd of 23, with only two of those singled out and away from the main herd because of their size (they are minis). I have been around all types of horse people, and I can tell you from your description of Betty that she doesn't know much, and what she does know is dangerous to a beginners horse riding life. I would run from her and not look back, and that is based on multiple things, like pictures you posted of a colt that was borderline emaciated that you claim Betty owned, and told about a mare that she also has that is a mess. And then there is her allowing you to get on a green brood mare, that you could just as easily have been seriously hurt on rather than having somewhat of a good experience on, and she is even now trying to get you on yet another green horse. That is not ok.

I think you need to listen to the advice you have gotten and walk away from Betty. Find a good trainer, no matter where they live, and start going to them for training. Research them, ask a lot of people at feed stores who they would recommend, call your vets for info, etc. don't just take one trainers or "friends" word for it. You need someone who will HELP you, without trying to get you to exercise their green horses for free. You have refused to say what area you live in, it is possible if you did that one of us here might know someone who is a real horseman or horsewoman who could actually teach you what you need to know. 

Wait until you are a more confident rider before looking for a horse to buy, you don't want to wind up with another Al, but that is probably what would happen if you jump in too soon on buying. Horses are awesome, and you WILL find one eventually that you can really connect with and learn from and with.


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## Teej (Jan 14, 2012)

I agree with Granny Carol. This last year has not been a waste of your time. Good or bad every horse has something to teach you. The more you learn, the better you'll be. 

As far as finding a horse you can trust. Every beginner friendly horse I've had or known in my lifetime still needed an occasional tune-up. My mare that I have now that I feel comfortable letting anyone ride needs an annual one. I'll notice she starts getting lazy and stubborn with the grandson so I'll have to put a good riding session on her and then she'll be good to go for another year. You need to find not only a trainer to teach you to ride but one that is also willing to get on your horse and remind it how it's it is supposed to behave under saddle. 

I also think you're being a little hard on yourself by expecting that you should know everything yesterday. The first thing that any horse person needs to learn is patience, with the horse and with themselves . I've had horses the better part of my life and access to them all my life but I don't now nor will I ever know everything there is to know about them. 

I wish you the best of luck on your journey with horses and finding someone you can trust to learn from and who makes the process enjoyable for you.


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## fffarmergirl (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks everybody - for your names and ages as well as for your advice.

The area I live in is so sparsely populated and a lot of the things I have said could easily lead somebody to pinpoint where I live as well as identify Betty to others. IDK why I bother trying to protect her because she sure doesn't do anything to protect her own reputation.

I live in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I moved her from Kansas 20 years ago with my ex husband. For those who don't know about the UP, it's hard to describe the culture up here. People from here are called Yoopers and you can live 50 years here and still not be considered a Yooper if you weren't born here. Most people can't find the UP on the map and many US maps don't even show the UP as being part of the United States. It's the peninsula between Lake Michigan and Lake Superior and is only connected to the rest of Michigan by the Mackinac Bridge. It's different from the rest of the United States, back woods and isolated. Medical care is lacking. At one of the hospitals where I worked for a while, the medical records department was a mobile home located across the parking lot. When a patient showed up in the middle of the night, the nurses would have to walk through hip-deep snow to the trailer to get the records, occasionally encountering bears on the way. I believe it was one of the last places to get electricity. A lot of people up here still get all of their meat from hunting and almost everybody has guns. Many people carry guns at all times. The winters are long and harsh (often -30), there is a tremendous amount of snow, and the riding season is short for those without indoor arenas. 

My elderly home health patients have told me that the UP did not have horses until recently, except for very few who were used for pulling logs out of the woods and occasionally for plowing. People would share the horses, most people couldn't afford to keep them through the winter. There is not a lot of horse knowledge and most "horse people" you run into are "yahoos". Remember the picture of the emaciated horse I posted? Somebody showed one worse than that at the county fair. They just have no clue. 

I saw Shelly teaching several clinics at county fairs and observed her for a while and realized she seemed to know what she was talking about. I looked into it and found out she was raised in one of the very few families up here who show all over, so I looked her up a few months ago and contacted her and asked if there was any way I could board my horse with her and get lessons from her. She actually built a stall for Ona and plans to break her out for me, and she'll be willing to help me find a horse but she's all about showing. She barrel races and does pretty much everything arena-related with her horses but she's not into trail riding. I'm not that interested in showing or arena work but people don't work cattle up here (raising cattle is not profitable in this climate) and I have not met anybody who has knowledge of working horses. Shelly's husband's family rides endurance. I'm hoping I'll eventually find the right horse through them. They're both yoopers, though, and they have all the friends they need.

I've heard there are some riding groups around. Since getting to know about local horse people I've decided to be extremely choosy about who I ride with.


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## harvestmoon1964 (Apr 24, 2014)

wr said:


> I've had more than a pm's because people think I've been unfair to you but I'm honestly trying to prevent you from getting hurt or simply quitting something you should enjoy. At the level you're at, you be learning and growing, not trying to fix problem horses because advanced beginners are not ready for remedial training.


IMO, pm's to the moderator are ridiculous. She's been nothing but a voice of common sense and safety.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Don't be surprised to find that riding groups are pretty fussy about who they invite to join them. They tend to judge newbies by their level of skill, comparability and associates (mentors, trainers, etc) and with Betty being known to be dishonest, shifty and starving horses, you may be judged by her reputation. 

Horse people can be a bit funny so be prepared to treat any initial contact like an interview. You will be judged as much on the questions you ask as the answers you give.


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## mulemom (Feb 17, 2013)

Ffarmgirl-I'm Lynn and I'm 63-53 years of that time spent with horses. Racetrack rejects (TB's)when I was a kid, mucking stalls, tacking and jogging Standardbreds for my dad until I was 15 then mucking stalls and riding QH's for a dealer through college. Started raising QH's when I was 18, did the b and c local show circuit for a few years until I got married, later did some beginner level dressage and jumping. Trained and galloped some TB's in my forties. In all those years and with time on hundreds of horses I can look back and say I've only had two that I absolutely clicked with riding. Please do not feel like what you've done has been a waste-whether we want to or not we learn from every experience. Every person and every horse you meet can teach you something-even if it's only what NOT to do. If you can take lessons do it-and if they'll let you hang around and just watch them work their horses you can learn a lot that way. My dressage instructor used to have her students ride the course in their minds and it's something I still like to do. Hang in there-sounds like you have a good plan in place.


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