# Leagues, what are they?



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

When someone perceives another person to be "Out of their league," what does it mean? What is a League? Is it made up of socio-economic strata? Is it sorted by IQ? Looks? The car you drive, the clothes you wear, how high you stick your nose in the air?

When it comes to looking for a relationship, "In My League" is no where on my list. The automatic scratch-offs are city dwellers, townies, and negativity.


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

There are definitely "leagues" as far as dating. It seems the more money you have, the better looking you are, the more educated you are and the more socially skilled you are the higher your league.
Some items on the list may be negotiable for some, but I believe we all have our own standards as far as what we will or will not accept (i.e. settle for) in a relationship.
I think most of us who have worked hard to have accomplished what we have would prefer to be with someone with similar amounts of accomplishments and an equal amount to bring to the table. 
In other words, I won't be your Sugar Momma, I need to find you attractive, and there must be something special about you so that being with you makes my life better than it already is.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Speaking as a guy, and rememb ering my own experiences with leagues, id say,
U take a woman/girl, and put her in tight jeans with spike heels, push up brakk, low cut blouse, hair that flows around both sides of her shoulders, and down to her bra strap and over her boobs.

AND THEN

Take that same woman/girl, and put her in flip flops, with loose jeans that are old, a loose floppy plad blouse with no bra and hair tied back, or cut short.

Id think the first was out of my league, but not the second
A part of that is in my thinking that the younger, richer, handsomer guys are going to be trying for the first one. Ill have less comp in the second.


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

Bill, you have described the way a woman dresses before and then after marriage!!! ound:ound:ound:ound:ound:


----------



## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

Leagues are where our estimation of ourselves intersect with reality. 

Somewhere, someone, wrote or explained to me that 'choice' is not distributed equally: some of us are smarter than others, some are better looking, some have more money, some are more charismatic, and all of these 'mores' equate to haveing more choices in certain aspects of life. As this applies to dating, at least when I'm speaking of it, it means that the better looking one is, the more choices they have when it comes to dating. Yes, there are other factors that can skew this allotment of choice, but you get my drift.

Confining the discussion to looks, but you could substitute your own criteria in there, most of us are, statistically speaking, average. You as an individual may, of course, be absolutely stunning and I bow in your general direction. Me personally, I tend to be more clever than good looking. I leverage that to the best of my ability, and it works out well in my professional life, but I've found through practice (mostly, but not always, failure) I can only leverage clever in combination with average looks so far in the dating world - so at a certain level of good-lookingness, a woman is out of my league.

The league system works both ways though. If a particularly attractive woman starts paying an unusual amount of attention to me, I am very aware that maybe she thinks she has just discovered her soul mate - whatever that is - but most likely, she wants me to fix her television, computer, or reach something up high. I'm out of her league in the opposite direction, and it's to my advantage to be aware of that.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I hadnt realized it when I wrote it SZ. BUT ITS TRUE lol


----------



## wyld thang (Nov 16, 2005)

hm. I have a close friend that I've known a long time and we felt each other out for a relationship, well like a traditional long term type and we are just too different of tastes, ie he's a city boy and I'm a mountain grrl. BUT I connect with and understand his deeply wild hairy side in a way no one else has or ever will (his words), his deep down real self he doesn't let loose. We're still that deep friends thing.

He likes that kind of girl that I consider "out of my league"--foreign, super(over haha) educated(phd), huge money maker/investor, big paying job, rich fine tastes, dresses in high end stuff etc. Course those girls have always broke his heart because eventually he has to let his wild side scream and they're like WTH????

Not a league I wanna be in btw. It's ok though, I consider it a precious gift to have a friend show me their true self and consider me trustworthy to love it and care for it and be a safe place, ya know?


----------



## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

The perception of 'leagues' is just that, a perception, which may or may not be shared with someone else. The biggest fallacy that can keep you from doing anything is the idea that there is any type of consensus or collective agreement between all members of society. Every person you meet is an individual with a completely different set of experiences and perceptions.

That girl or guy who you think is 'out of your league' may not think so, or worse, he/she may think that you are out of HER league. We project our own thoughts and beliefs on the outer world and it gets reflected back to us ( or so we perceive ).


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Yeah. You know...I've no idea. I've been told so many conflicting things in people's opinions in this sort of thing. Actually had this conversation last weekend with a group of people at the club. They all totally contradicted each other. All it really taught me about myself was: I'm intimidating. Which seems to be my theme that I cannot do anything about. And it seems to also go in contradictory ways. What it actually means, whether it is a good thing or a bad thing, I can't really figure out.

It is at this point that I take a draw off my flask and go dance. :shrug:


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Give me the baggy jean/ flip flops / flannel dhirt with no bra girl. just reafing it kinda got me goin!

Forget dpike heels snd push up bras! What ya goin do in them? i reslly, really dont like that crsp.



i think dome folks see leagues.

As laura said in the other thread, i tend to be harder on myself then others.


----------



## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

mickm said:


> Forget dpike heels snd push up bras! What ya goin do in them? i reslly, really dont like that crsp.


If wearing high heels, you can plant corn 

And you can do anything in a push up bra that you can do while not in one. 

Personally never subscribed the "out of my league" theory. Could be because of where I grew up. See you didn't know whether that fella in the ripped up jeans and faded flannel shirt shoveling manure at the barn was really a multi-millionaire who just liked hanging around horse pucky. Or that gal that looked like a china doll in the fancy hunt getup going out with the hounds was really the laundromat attendant when not on that Thoroughbred.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

mickm said:


> Give me the baggy jean/ flip flops / flannel dhirt with no bra girl. just reafing it kinda got me goin!
> 
> Forget dpike heels snd push up bras! What ya goin do in them? i reslly, really dont like that crsp.
> 
> ...


 
See I understand this. An example: My roommate and I share a lot of common interests but we also contrast a lot. To outsiders we seem like completely opposites...though inside we aren't. But what is really funny is she IS the outlandish, stylish (expensive) fashionista in 6 inch heels and crazy cool makeup and etc. And I'm the one that shows up with a full length skirt, leather flat sandals and a tank top. I'm quiet compared to her. I seem reserved. She gets a lot of attention when we go out. A LOT of attention.

And people tell me I need to be like her. And I can be...I have been...and I have had a lot of fun, but I have a lot of fun just the way I am. This idea that I have to change myself or what I wear to gain interest just doesn't compute for me because I compare quality. Yes, it is awesome to get attention...but where she likes a lot of different people to talk to and mingling with say 20 people in short conversations...I like to find the ones that can sit back, play cards and bull$hoot all night.

Several people have said, "you need to do this or that to get a man's interest"...all I keep thinking is...but that isn't me and if he thinks he's got me because I look or act like that, they are gonna find out sooner or later.

Is that "leagues"? No idea.

But it has been fun showing up every once in a while being 6foot 6inches tall. LMAO Thank the heavens for men that like to give foot massages! WhoooHoooo!


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Glazed explains this phenomenon as....the other person is a girl and I'm a ....*ahem* WO-man. LOL if only text sounded like she does when she says that LMAO.


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

The bottom line is just be who you are. Be true to yourself and embrace your inner/outer beauty...flaws included. Once you are able to do that, you will be attractive to the right person for you.


----------



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

shanzone2001 said:


> The bottom line is just be who you are. Be true to yourself and embrace your inner/outer beauty...flaws included. Once you are able to do that, you will be attractive to the right person for you.


Exactly, and even better when you give up dating all together. It means you get to not wear make up and put your hair back in a braid and get away with it. Those jeans kinda become your second skin and push up bras are over rated. If I tried to wear one of those I would be a freak show. . Yep, I am kinda liking the whole no dating, no having to please another person kinda life. :thumb:


----------



## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

cindilu said:


> Exactly, and even better when you give up dating all together.* It means you get to not wear make up and put your hair back in a braid and get away with it. Those jeans kinda become your second skin* and push up bras are over rated. If I tried to wear one of those I would be a freak show. . Yep, I am kinda liking the whole no dating, no having to please another person kinda life. :thumb:


sounds like my kinda girl, make up is over rated!!!!


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I find it amazing we SAY we are looking for those inner qualities of a person character, but we judge according to a convoluted League system based on externals. These externals we award or subtract points for are things that are prone to smoke & mirrors illusion tricks and vulnerable to douchebaggery. Right?

I haven't been aware of Leagues since high school when two different boys I dated told me they could only marry money, land or political power. It was the only way to preserve the vineyards for future generations of their families. They ended up not being happy men, but the agricultural businesses are intact.

I believe life levels the playing field for everyone and I've believed this for decades. In my 50s, I'm not looking for "potential," you shoulda' achieved that already. I am looking for strength of character in a woodsman. He often makes admirable decisions that don't align with money, looks, education and social skills. His decisions are based on what's right.

Yeah, I had a profound encounter with a blast from the past.

My next question about Leagues, who is more conscious or of the League system? Men or women? Who is the most judgmental about it?


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

I have seen several women on here say they wouldnt date a guy who didnt have a job? Some who said that a man must own his own home, one who said a man must be organised. 

isnt that telling domeine, they are not in your league?


----------



## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

My gal says I'm in a league of my own but even if I'm the only player in the league I want to hang on to her as team manager


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I think men feel the league thing way more than women. Men dress and look, generally one or 2 ways. Women have a hey day with their looks, which can blow a guys perception of them as to how they are, by how they look.
As an example. U see an old guy with a straw hat, a blue long sleeve shirt, overhalls, you tend to think he might be a farmer. U see the same guy in a cowboy hat, a long sleeve striped shirt, TIGHT jeans,and cowboy boots, Youd tend to think he was a cowboy of some sort. NOW, in this example, Neither, as to what they wear, means there unapproachable, to a woman. It just shows a bit of perceptions as to clothes worn. I dont know how women feel about the clothes worn by men, BUT I do know that men feel somewhat intimadated, by SOME of the clothes and accessories, worn by SOME of the women.


----------



## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

women have special powers that men don't. I suspect that men are more likely to perceive the legues than women, but what I know about women would easily fit on a single sheet of paper.

Seriously, the 'leagues' aren't fixed or set in stone, they're more of a general guideline - in my opinion at least.


----------



## sidepasser (May 10, 2002)

I have often heard that term and understand it to be something like:

If you are dirt poor and the other party is filthy rich - you might think that person is out of your league. You might be right as people with tons of money tend to look at things a bit differently than people who have none. 

A person who is a physical fitness guru may feel out of her/his league dating a couch potato.

A person with no education may feel that dating someone with a PHd would be out of their league.

Basically it means that dating/marrying someone totally out of one's own social, economic, educational status. I have found that many times those types of situations end badly for both parties and have witnessed it right here on HT over and over as people complain about "X can't handle money, X won't work, X is from the city and I am from the country". Those are people that generally have married outside their "league" or "home turf" status.

sure it can work but I have seen that is appears to be A LOT OF WORK to make it work. 

I think that is why people tend to gravitate towards those that are similar in background and when they date or marry, they tend to have a much easier time staying together. Not saying they always stay together, but in general, there are less things to "argue" about.

we see that frequently on HT. Someone will say "she hates the country, how do I get her to like it or talk him into moving to the country or helping around the farm he bought me"..
uhm you don't because you married outside your league (sphere of interests) and usually those folks don't change.

A person who has no respect for money should not marry a frugal person (how is that working for those that did it?)

That is what I have always been told about "leagues" and what I have found to be true most often. You can call it any number of terms, but the idea remains the same. When you date or marry someone so much different from yourself and your background, it can be said "wow he/she is sure out of your league". doesn't mean that person is better than you, just that person is so dad blasted different that things are likely to go south rather than move forward smoothly.

Rarely have I heard it used about makeup, clothing, or other things that are not part of the inherent nature/background of the person. Occasionally I have heard it about beautiful women or very handsome men (like attracts like and a homely person might feel out of their league dating a supermodel be it man or woman).


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I drive a 25 year old pickup that is more than disreputable looking. That weeds out the women real fast. Even if I came into a lot of money I wouldn't drive a newer vehicle.


----------



## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

FarmboyBill said:


> ....As an example. U see an old guy with a straw hat, a blue long sleeve shirt, overhalls, you tend to think he might be a farmer. U see the same guy in a cowboy hat, a long sleeve striped shirt, TIGHT jeans,and cowboy boots, Youd tend to think he was a cowboy of some sort..


Actually, I see a guy in TIGHT jeans and I want to giggle...and I'm NOT the giggling type!

Mon


----------



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Darren said:


> I drive a 25 year old pickup that is more than disreputable looking. That weeds out the women real fast. Even if I came into a lot of money I wouldn't drive a newer vehicle.


The good thing about driving a older truck, much easier to fix the a computer model and also no microchip. The no microchip gets my vote any day of the week. Oh and the no truck payment as well, now that is always a good thing.


----------



## glazed (Aug 19, 2006)

WhyNot said:


> Glazed explains this phenomenon as....the other person is a girl and I'm a ....*ahem* WO-man. LOL if only text sounded like she does when she says that LMAO.


:donut:

You. Made. Me. Laugh. Out. Loud.

:donut:​


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> If you are dirt poor and the other party is filthy rich - you might think that person is out of your league. You might be right as people with tons of money tend to look at things a bit differently than people who have none.


Ya know what? I think people might assume that a guy with a lot of money has it made ... he can get any girl he wants. Right?

But how will he ever know if she really loves him, or just his money? :shrug:


----------



## I_don't_know (Sep 28, 2012)

[FONT=&quot]I set the preamitors for my own league. Given a choice I&#8217;ll take: [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]
Brains over looks[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kindness over charisma[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Consideration over manners[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Truth over Airs
Love over wealth 
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Dependability over ability

[/FONT] Can any one add to the list? (The gender is really not important that I can tell.) 

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

cindilu said:


> The good thing about driving a older truck, much easier to fix the a computer model and also no microchip. The no microchip gets my vote any day of the week. Oh and the no truck payment as well, now that is always a good thing.


The downside is the love/hate relationship with the truck. I'm about to take the bed off for the fourth time to work on the fuel system. It does have an early computer which only serves as another possible bad part. The truck is a good runner. It's not a heavy hauler with a 6 cylinder, but it does what I need. Once I get the gas gauge working again, I wouldn't hesitate to drive the truck to California if there was a reason to do that,

The saving grace is I can sit in the engine compartment when I working on it.


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

With the League system we reduce each other and ourselves to a commodity. We can overvalue or undervalue, limiting our choices. 

I think I liked being clueless about Leagues. I think it explains a lot, but not sure what.


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

willow_girl said:


> Ya know what? I think people might assume that a guy with a lot of money has it made ... he can get any girl he wants. Right?
> 
> But how will he ever know if she really loves him, or just his money? :shrug:


No woman has ever loved me for my money, 

However,

I am not real sure any woman has ever loved me.

My point being, i am all about be a good man, and good father honest, relativly moral etc...., but for some reason i walk through this life alone.

I dont mean this as a sexist statement, although it may actually be, but most rich guys font. spend a lot of time looking for dates, despite everyone's assurances thst money foesnt matter!

Dont get me wrong, i like my life and more important i like me. i wouldnt trade that for any woman.

However, it does lead to dome of ys good ol'boys insecurities.


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

willow_girl said:


> Ya know what? I think people might assume that a guy with a lot of money has it made ... he can get any girl he wants. Right?
> 
> But how will he ever know if she really loves him, or just his money? :shrug:


 
Just another reason why women should be independent and have their OWN money. There is nothing more gratifying than to tell a man you are with him because you WANT to be, not because you NEED to be.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Im wondering if, cause men are afraid to ask nearly ANY girl out, IF they have a higher rainge where, they know by the few times theyve been shot down asking just any girl out, They KNOW they dont DARE ask a gal in this ligher level. Hinccwe the termonolgy.

Shes leagues away from you, man


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Course, that might have been an englishn expression, whereas, an american one might be,
Shes inna big leagues U inna farm team.


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

FarmboyBill said:


> Im wondering if, cause men are afraid to ask nearly ANY girl out, IF they have a higher rainge where, they know by the few times theyve been shot down asking just any girl out, They KNOW they dont DARE ask a gal in this ligher level. Hinccwe the termonolgy.
> 
> Shes leagues away from you, man


 
But once you have been shot down, it is best to just walk away. 
Constantly following someone's posts, asking them to be your Facebook friend, requesting to chat, etc. are behaviors of a man who seriously can't get a clue!!! :hammer:


----------



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

shanzone2001 said:


> But once you have been shot down, it is best to just walk away.
> Constantly following someone's posts, asking them to be your Facebook friend, requesting to chat, etc. are behaviors of a man who seriously can't get a clue!!! :hammer:



Not only someone who cannot get a clue but that is the sign of a very sick man. If you have been asked nicely to not contact or make contact with someone and you still continue then you are going past boundaries. When you have made appeal after appeal to not have contact then you are crossing a line where the police should be involved. At least that is my opinion.


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

cindilu said:


> Not only someone who cannot get a clue but that is the sign of a very sick man. If you have been asked nicely to not contact or make contact with someone and you still continue then you are going past boundaries. When you have made appeal after appeal to not have contact then you are crossing a line where the police should be involved. At least that is my opinion.


I agree with you, Cindilu. The word desperate comes to mind, but I do agree that there must be some sort of mental illness. Furtunately, I sleep with a cop so I feel a little safer!

Hey, Guys: When a woman says you make her uncomfortable and to please stop making contact with her, please listen.

Creepy guys are in nobody's league!!!!


----------



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Oh yeah, that is right, you sleep with a cop, lol. Hand cuffs and play time come to my mind right now, teehee. 

Exactly about the other issue. There is a point where stalking takes on a whole other level and it is not healthy. Mental illness is a real thing but we do not need that in our lives.


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

You naughty, naughty girl!!! Love it!


----------



## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

I would like to meet a woman that is outdoorsy and likes to play in the dirt, anyone else is out of my league.


----------



## NoClue (Jan 22, 2007)

oddly enough, all this discussion of cluelessness isn't about me...

How the heck did that happen?


----------



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

NoClue said:


> oddly enough, all this discussion of cluelessness isn't about me...
> 
> How the heck did that happen?


I know right? This time and only this time you were saved by the bell, teehee. 
:stars::thumb:


----------



## SimplerTimez (Jan 20, 2008)

I haven't dated that much, so I was never really aware of this 'league' thing.
I have been rich, and I have been poor.
I've driven an expensive sports car, and I've driven a paid for beater truck.
I've shopped at high end boutiques, and I've shopped at Goodwill.
I've had a reserved chair at a salon where they had wine waiting for me, and I've had my hair cut by a woman in exchange for a gallon of goats milk.

The one thing that has never changed is who I am inside. All the rest of that stuff is literally just stuff. And in the end, what is inside and how someone treats others is all that really means anything at all.

So I say ...who cares what they mean? It's the person that actually counts.

~ST


----------



## rkintn (Dec 12, 2002)

Darren said:


> I drive a 25 year old pickup that is more than disreputable looking. That weeds out the women real fast. Even if I came into a lot of money I wouldn't drive a newer vehicle.


I don't know about all this league business, but I do love an old beat up truck


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Laura said:


> I find it amazing we SAY we are looking for those inner qualities of a person character, but we judge according to a convoluted League system based on externals. These externals we award or subtract points for are things that are prone to smoke & mirrors illusion tricks and vulnerable to douchebaggery. Right? (snip)
> 
> (snip)
> My next question about Leagues, who is more conscious or of the League system? Men or women? Who is the most judgmental about it?


I maintain that I treat people equally. That is, I really don't care who you are (or think you are) or what your status or stature is, respect is respect and integrity is integrity.

Reminds me of a situation I found myself in where, I suppose, being aware of "leagues" may have served me better, but as usual I came out alright only because it apparently does not affect me.

In one of my past lives I worked for a multi millionaire who owned a lot of things. One of those things was a restaurant where other multimillionaires and presidents of companies and what not..celebrities and sports stars would come to be "woooed" and etc.

Anyway we were really busy. I was contracted to coordinate and manage banquets and was head server. I was also 17 and supposed to be intimidated by older men with power. Uh Huh. So we were so busy that the dishwasher (the equipment not the person) could literally not keep up with the demand so we resorted to plastic glasses. Not solo cups lol but plastiware nonetheless. Not very fancy.

I was serving 25 tables that afternoon and already had one waitress have a meltdown so was not in a good mood. This guy who was the vice president of a company that shall remain unnamed, was more than put off by his mountain dew being served in a plastic glass. He made a stink (and an ass of himself) saying something like, "I am the vice president of ____ and being served on plastic is an insult to me."

My response, "Yes Sir, I understand. As you see we are extremely busy but I will go right now and get you a dirty glass glass for your mountain dew because that is all available." And gave a more than winning smile... I whisked his plastic glass off the table and started towards the kitchen. 

For some reason he got right up and let me know the plastic would be fine. I got a huge tip from everyone at that table except for him. He complained to the big boss (not my direct boss, he was a puss). "Waitress with attitude" Big bosses response, "Well...she wasn't wrong."



So really I do not see leagues or play homage to some sort of serf class system. If you are an ass, I will treat you accordingly possibly with a courtesy and a smile.

Same as I will treat a little ole hillbilly up in Arkansas like a king. 

But I think who is more sensitive men or women....eh not sure if it is gender based...I would imagine if people were truthful and you polled America it would be about even of who it matters to between the sexes.


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Why Not, I think the reason you and I don't *get* Leagues is because you and I are in a League of our Own. We aren't followers because it never occurred to us to follow. The idea of following is icky. 

Everyone gets the same smile, the same curtesy, a chance to be seen and to be heard. A person's behavior determines how that goes for them, nothing else. I have no problem keeping my smile while telling someone it's okay for them to be an ass, but not to me.

I'm wondering if when we talk with men and it's really good, but they show that brief moment of shame at something, if it has to do with this League thing and how they perceive us? League perception is something that makes men feel not *good enough* to follow through with a connection.


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

I don't think it's a shame thing as much as how conscious people have become of possible socioeconomic differences. There's something going on below the level of thought. There's a pretty woman at a local convenience store that's probably in her twenties. BTW, I'm not a good age guesser. For all I know she could be in her thirties. The thing that I noticed about her is she's a hard worker.

Yesterday I commented on her hair color. She's normally a brunette and sometime recently changed to a lighter color. I mentioned that her hair was attractive in either shade. She thanked me. That was a sincere comment on my part. There was no ulterior motive. If she was maybe thirty or forty years older, I might be interested in her.

In these times it's a different world. Long ago you could have a crush on a woman and maybe not be creepy. For some reason the creep factor is a serious issue now. There seems to be much more crap out there now. I don't know if it was always there or if some people feel in today's seeming more permissive society anything goes when it really doesn't.

Makeup is sort of an alarm for me. I prefer a no makeup woman. It's not that I don't appreciate the effort involved but it really doesn't matter in the dark or anywhere else for me. Depending on how obvious it is, it's something that is not a positive for me. It's not so much a league thing but a what's up with the face paint alert that goes off in my mind.

The issue of women and men wanting certain things in their partner may be hard wired in some way. If the woman is 5' 2" and only wants to date someone 6' or older, who am I to argue about what floats her boat? Finding someone compatible is much more complicated on many levels than is obvious if you're going to be together for the long haul. By being distracted by the makeup I could miss getting to know a really great person.


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Ofcourse there are leagues.

Non of the women here consider money, and none of the guys consider looks, but everyone eose in the world does.


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

> None of the women here consider money,


If money were important to me, I would have stayed with my last husband! ound:

Funny, I haven't missed any of that, and doubt I will. :shrug:


----------



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

Darren said:


> I don't think it's a shame thing as much as how conscious people have become of possible socioeconomic differences. There's something going on below the level of thought. There's a pretty woman at a local convenience store that's probably in her twenties. BTW, I'm not a good age guesser. For all I know she could be in her thirties. The thing that I noticed about her is she's a hard worker.
> 
> Yesterday I commented on her hair color. She's normally a brunette and sometime recently changed to a lighter color. I mentioned that her hair was attractive in either shade. She thanked me. That was a sincere comment on my part. There was no ulterior motive. If she was maybe thirty or forty years older, I might be interested in her.
> 
> ...


Darren, keep in mind something about the make up thing. Some of us wear it when we go out or when we know we are going to have pictures taken. Some of us don't bother when we are at home all day but want to look nice when we go to town. Ya just never know really until you get to know the real person...


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Cindi lu

some guys really mean it ehen they say you are more attractive without make up. comfortsble is a turn on! 

Willow, i get it. We are generally speaking in general terms.

I have made the mistake of attraction for looks. i can certsinlly under stand a woman being attracted gor financial security.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Mick, as to your last post, Whaddia u mokein and tokin man? lol


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

cindilu said:


> Darren, keep in mind something about the make up thing. Some of us wear it when we go out or when we know we are going to have pictures taken. Some of us don't bother when we are at home all day but want to look nice when we go to town. Ya just never know really until you get to know the real person...


You're right. Make up isn't a complete turnoff. It really depends on too much to explain. Most woman are prettier than they think. Our marketing driven, give me your money, society is dedicated to making us feel either insecure, your teeth aren't white enough. or that some aren't good looking enough, you need the right shade of lipstick or mineral stuff, to reel them in.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Laura said:


> Why Not, I think the reason you and I don't *get* Leagues is because you and I are in a League of our Own. We aren't followers because it never occurred to us to follow. The idea of following is icky.


Haven't really given that following thing much thought. I reckon I blaze my own trail, but I am sort of untrusting in a way. I trust people in general until they show me I should not. But I don't trust agenda's. I trust honest motivations. A lot of people are not honest with themselves, much less others.

I'd much rather someone tell me what it is they are looking for, want, dream of, etc. Than them try to be something or someone that they aren't. Even if what they are trying to hide is silly to hide, I find that dishonest and it's off-putting.

Another interesting phenomenon that I have encountered is that so many people are surprised by a person who can walk away. From anything. I have a lot of people in my life with a lot of different backgrounds. Some are filthy rich, some are in and out of jail and rehab and have crazy drug addictions. A couple are homeless and they intend to stay that way.

People seem to think that my laid back attitude (yes I actually have one) and that I so much embrace being free and letting yourself go and that I am so tolerant and accepting that I am some sort of person that will allow just anyone or anything into my life. Uhmmm... no. But I am not a B about it. I simply move on.

I don't tolerate being treated badly no matter if it means walking away from employment, relationship, friendship, whatever.

The first job I had down here, they thought they could treat me badly. Perhaps some of it was cultural as the entire company is actually made up of middle easterners. I literally was the only female and the only white person. There were a lot of misunderstandings that were cultural. However, I think the largest misunderstanding on their part was thinking that they could jack me around with my pay. He truly thought I would not quit because I am a woman in a "man's field" and that I needed his crappy pay. He even expressed his concern about me just getting "huffy" (lol huffy) and walking away without having a job in place.

Well. I had a job within 5 days at seriously triple the pay at a place I absolutely love. Makes the agony of having to be in the city much easier to bear, makes the horrendous amount of hours I put in to get out of the city much, much easier to bear...not necessarily the cash but looking forward to the day instead of having to stele yourself against it.

Sometimes it literally pays to simply walk away.

I am waiting for the next social revolution because what people in general have "evolved" to right now in their crazy way of thinking is nuts...just nuts. It's so complicated and full of anger, resentment and hostility....(read:fear)...it's so tiring, people have forgotten life doesnt' have to be like that but they are so far into it and it is so pushed on them with what is good and what you have to be and how you are supposed to think they have no idea....no idea.


----------



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

mickm said:


> Cindi lu
> 
> some guys really mean it ehen they say you are more attractive without make up. comfortsble is a turn on!
> 
> ...


Uggg, lol.. Now you sound like some of my guys friends who have seen me with and seen me without and they MUCH prefer the with out. I am working on it, really I am. Some day I will get brave a post a picture of the natural me, the one that is the day in and day out look. Yikes. rincess: But for today I am going to wear a tiny bit of make up, do my hair, go to my sons track meet and then go out to dinner with a friend of mine whom I dated 25 years ago and moved back into town. JUST dinner, and I am NOT considering it a date.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

----ed makeup. I have 6 sisters, I'm also the youngest. They ALL are all about makeup and clothes and etc...or were when younger. I think this made an impression on me growing up. I think it's why I really have troubles with fakeness. I mean...it does not bother me when people make themselves up and I like to dressup and look nice and etc as well. But I think growing up I got this idea into my head that my sisters were trying to be something for someone else...not for themselves.

Course, also growing up not many people could tell me what to do and have me do it LOL whoops.

Anyway I don't feel comfortable in a lot of makeup. And even though I do wear it sometimes, it can be difficult to tell. I also get really tense if I'm wearing a lot of makeup. I have let my roommate do crazy makeup on me and then dress me in some crazy club clothes before. I was tense all night long. not sure why.

I do wear a bit of makeup to work, largely because I don't get a lot of sleep and it makes me look not as dead or tired. But usually because I am under desks and in places that is full of equipment where people don't go often...I get sweaty and dirty and it's all off by noon anyway.

Once when I was about 22 I let some girl do my makeup. It felt like it was work to open my eyes she had so much stuff on them and my lips felt heavy and my face felt like...I dunno...spackled lol I had to wash it off a few hours later, I think I was having a small panic episode. All I kept thinking was that my face was suffocating. LOL silly, I'm sure.

Thing is...if a woman truly enjoys makeup and isn't comfortable without...self-consciousness is not sexy. I think people should do what they are comfortable with. I like to press on my limits and boundaries and test things out that I am uncomfortable with and sometimes I find out I like it. I have found that I can wear a certain amount of makeup and be just as comfortable as without...I just know when I have reached my limit with it. Same goes the other way around. 

My grandmother did NOTHING not one thing until she had bright red lipstick on. If she didn't have time to do her entire face...she always had that lipstick. Always! And they were true homesteaders


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

My best friend says she won't let anyone see her without her makeup. Funny thing is most people haven't seen me WITH any makeup on!
I like the motto "What you see is what you get." Granted, I don't think I am at a point where I NEED to wear makeup, but if and when I do, I will consider it. Maybe.

Like I said, be yourself and you will attract the right person for you.

Darren, having a crush on a girl isn't creepy. Constantly trying to make contact with her and following her posts on a forum when she has asked you MULTIPLE times to leave her alone is creepy.


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I wear make up because using mineral powder is a sunblock to prevent sun damage to my skin. Mineral make up appeals to me because it is basically putting DIRT on my face. I don't go for the asphalt applied with an asphalt brush or all the theatrical grease paint. Yes, I like my moisturizing sunblock lipstick, too. I think beyond the lipstick, most men don't see make up unless it includes asphalt and clown colors.

Recent RL conversations have been about the emotional blackmail of TV telling people they aren't cool unless they have this, use that. How I see some other women wearing make up, coloring and lacquering their hair, and sometimes their behaviors, I think they are imitating the over-dramatized theatrics of TV. Those of us without TV programming have no idea how uncool we are? If it's a League, I'm cool with not being in it. 

Strong capable women are definitely a different league which can't be stuffed into a pigeonhole. I think this is why my friend called me the Wild Card. 

Another League question for both men and women. How much of your League Perception, the choices you make and your feelings toward others are based on the opinions, influences, judgments and agendas of other people? Are you aware of this?

It's blatant in high school. I was pretty unaware it extended well into adulthood.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Back to the makeup for a minute. I just realized something. We already covered the whole "be yourself, don't dress/makeup for others' etc) But it just dawned on me that also there is a stigma that women who wear no makeup or not much and especially if they don't dress in certain ways that they don't take care of themselves.

I remember being told this..."you have to wear makeup and better clothes, take care of yourself for crying out loud!" Uhm...I do maintenance. I just don't laquer everything after I'm done. The point to doing deep cleansing and steam baths and etc is to GET RID of toxins and slough off dry skin....not to suffocate it with a bunch of chemicals and colors.

I remember a while ago that thread about shaving and hair or whatever. I also remember being ridiculed for not shaving, not liking to shave and whatever else was said. I do shave my legs and pits but this is not an everyday ordeal. I really am most comfortable natural and would probably go around naked or topless most of the time if there weren't so many creeps and if it were legal. 

Point being...I don't mind being ridiculed for my preferences, I have many others that I am sure most people here would find horrendous...but it doesn't bother me because it's not my problem. It's not my problem if someone thinks I'm frumpy because I am not wearing everything skin tight. It's not my problem if a man is put off by a little peach fuzz in my pits. I'm not the one grossing out and uncomfortable. :shrug:


About your last question, Laura, I don't know that others' really have a large impact on my choices. Sure, some...have to be realistic but...I certainly do not share all of my friends' opinions of how things are or how to treat people or whatever else. I probably demand more respect from people but I do not try to muscle them to it...I demand it through my actions towards them and if they don't recognize it then I just don't really interact. Again, it's not my problem if they have a problem with me, it's theirs.

Not sure how much you and I are alike Laura, but it seems very much over the last year or so on this board. What other people say and do certainly impacts me in some way even if it's just given me something to think about but my choices and my opinions are exactly that, mine. I have a lot of friends who do not share the same opinions but we are still friends. Although every so often they really want me to change mine...but...I'm not down with being forced through shame or whatever else to change who I am. I may change but it is on my terms and by coming to my own conclusions.


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

The shaving thing is over rated. I'm not sure if it's changed throughout Europe. I'd rather the woman let it grow long, than let it grow out as stubble and get prickly when she forgets to shave. I don't think it makes a woman any less feminine.

Putting together my shopping list:

Fifties or older.
No makeup
Pass on the shaving.
Nice smile.
Can be taller. I don't care.

I'll add more later.


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I think we're a lot alike. I remember way back in HS taking my friend to the city so I could meet her new friends. The synthetic clad, chemically enhanced asphalt caked girls were telling me I didn't take care of myself because I didn't use asphalt or shave. I HAD to do this to get a BF. They said this as they were shoving another fast food meal into themselves and doing drugs. Yeah, where's the nearest health food store? I needed food before heading back to the hills and my man.

I don't consider that league ranking, that city stuff is a different universe. 

Even though I've lived here for 14 years, I was pretty much an unknown when I became divorced. I've had to overcome the crap BPDx spread. If I were what he said, I would not have been able to accomplish what I have for my DD and myself. I chalk a lot of the nastiness I've faced directly to him. I keep being myself and the TRUTH wins!

Men like me. Few women do until they know me. Insecure people spin or blow themselves up against me. I have very few friends, but they are golden. 

Some of the things that were going on with my guy friends that I found confusing and a quite distressful were them protecting me from my social cluelessness and lack of League awareness. PrairieMan is quite the social engineer.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Yeah lol. I also make friends easier with men but the female friends I do have, we are pretty tight and most I have known for most of my life. I also end up having men protect me from myself...lmao...a lot.

Actually I come from a very small village but I have been to a lot of places although one of those places has never included a lot of time in the south. On several occasions I was glad to have a strong of character and good man with me or around me or I could have gotten into a lot of trouble or had a lot of trouble...or more trouble than I had in places like Mississippi, New Orleans...and ah... Arkansas LOL

The nice thing about it, and I feel like I have been very fortunate, was to not realize that what I am saying or doing is completely WRONG in certain settings. Even something I would consider innocuous. Glad to have those guys take me under their wing and what is more that they knew me well enough to know that I was not trying to be insulting...it's just ... I'm different and come from a different area and mindset.

I've learned a lot traveling the south...a lot of unexpected things. And it's been great.


----------



## viggie (Jul 17, 2009)

I'm in a city and I don't do any of that stuff. Location doesn't determine who you are.


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

I think even though you don't wear makeup and just throw your hair up in a ponytail you still need to make sure everything else is groomed. Jeans and a tshirt can be be casual but still be cute. 
Personally, I don't think women ahould be hairy, but that is just me. I think that being hairy should be reserved for men. Just my opinion.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Everyone has their thing, Shannon. Just because I have hair "there" doesn't mean I am not clean and fresh  And the men I hang with, whether or not they go there, prefer that so...it's all cool. There is someone or some bodies for everyone. That is why this life is so beautiful.

Speaking of makeup and not shaving...I'm out...have an awesome night, all!

Ok...well I may hang for a minute..I have to read everything first..and then...I am out. *MWAH!*


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

And here I thought Shan was talking about _armpits_! :shocked:

This thread calls for a song!
[youtube]MvFSgXpyhoM[/youtube]


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

lol lol


----------



## willow_girl (Dec 7, 2002)

Hint, if you've never seen that vid before ..._ pay close attention to the cat_! ound:


----------



## shanzone2001 (Dec 3, 2009)

That video is too funny! I was referring to pits and legs because I didn't want to go "there" in regards to not shaving. To each his/her own.


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Prolonged time in backcountry camps is called going Full Bush. Nobody packs in shaving stuff. Men who have to take their women to civilization for full comfort station accommodation get razzed.

The rapidly changing social dynamics of divorce, nobody knows how it's gonna shake out. I stepped out of who xh said I was and asked for help from friends in my neighborhood. My few friendships are based on rural lifestyle, character, trustworthiness and intelligence. Those things are not vulnerable to illusions.

I emerged onto town's social scene, an unknown in a bullytown that eats outsiders alive, in the alpha league because of my close friendships with Hayseed, PrairieMan and Marlboro Man. I am not there because of MY
money, looks, social skills and education. I am there because these alpha men SAY I am in how they treat me, how they speak of me to others, and how they run off azzclowns. These things I highly appreciate. Other things I found highly confusing, now I realize it had to do with The League, and my league protection.

I think I need to ask my bulls for the list of names of approved men in my League. And ask them to tell the men of character, trustworthiness and intelligence it's okay to ask me out. It would save everyone a lot of work.

A couple of weeks ago a man I recognized as a close friend of Hayseed's came to see me at work near closing time. I had never talked to this man before, but a close friend of Hayseed is an endorsement of character and trustworthiness. I assumed he was there to see that I was okay after Hayseed's last plummet into despair. I let him lead the conversation. It was about healing, why some choose healing, why some cannot choose healing. After awhile I realized the conversation was way beyond Hayseed and I, reaching back in time I was hearing these words in his voice from the past. This woodsman looked me in the eyes and said, "I choose healing." In a 45 minute conversation, the only off was he displayed shame when he mentioned work.

When I asked his name again and he told me his FULL name and we shook hands, I KNEW who he was 25 years ago. He was a top logger who turned down the Big Money, walked away from a significant increase in scale offered to entice him to stay, in order to honor his commitment to his wife to BE THERE emotionally when she became ill. He came here to the last timber empire before 180 local mills closed down. 

I am pretty sure he recognized me from 25 years ago too. The few old crewmembers do. Loggerhero was his boss. He spoke words of healing and sorrow to me way back then, when we faced emotional trauma and Loggerhero chose to be married to his job, financially responsible but emotionally absent.

Even though he said he would come and see me the next Monday and I said I would be there, I figured he would be a No Show because he displayed shame when he mentioned work. He may still work in the woods, but he isn't logging, he isn't in the Money. 

Money isn't on my list of League Qualifications


----------



## tambo (Mar 28, 2003)

I am in a guy's league that wants this.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEtR28N_3tY[/ame]


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I have now processed this League stuff thoroughly and became aware of WTH is going on in my social life. Leagues implies competitive games, sports, point systems, scores, goals, skills, teams and sportsmanship.

I've pretty much focused on helping DD with autism with her social issues since becoming single and putting her in public high school. To her horror she got stuck in the retard room while her assessments were completed. What was even more horrifying for her is the young man she'd shared a longstanding flirt with, a Cool Jock, discovered she was in the retard room. Another Jock knew she didn't belong there and invited her to join them at the Jock table in the lunch room when she finally escaped the Room.

No matter how cute, how smart, educated, nice, she was still the Girl from the Retard Room. Her and I discussed the problem with a close friend, a local sports hero. "V needs Cool Points, *I will GIVE her Cool Points*. I'm their assistant coach," said the King of Cool, Master of Sportsmanship. Massive Cool Points as he spoke her into their League. At the Homecoming dance she was the center of the Hot Jock Royalty dancing on cloud 9. 

However one does not escape the retard room and go directly to dancing alpha League without repercussions. The girls who kicked, scratched, clawed, gossiped and backstabbed their way trying to get to that position went off on her. The Shrew Crew went into full attack frenzy.
Coping strategy I offered, GO STAND IN THE MIDDLE OF THE JOCKS.

One does not step out of the Cow Pasture League into town via Feminazi Sisterhood of Perpetual Victims, join the tables and dance with alpha Industrialists. I know them as Quillbilllies out here among the cow patties and elk droppings, men of high character and very close friends.

The Shrew Crew? Yeah, their mommas! I was dancing on skates having a good time, didn't know it was Roller Derby! Cluelessness has an advantage. Stand there with a smile thinking WTH while one by one the shrews blow themselves up in public hagnastiness. Yeah men dig that!
What the men dig is a team mate who can pull the teeth out of these bulldogs using a spine and a smile. Massive Cool Points.

Competitive team sports. Sportsmanship, covering each others' positions and vulnerabilities, play with our best skills and assets, play fair and with style, don't hog the ball, pass or set up for a score, have fun while developing skills, abilities and character and share the glory. Oh, and tell PrairieMan about any douchebaggery.

Don't date players from the rival team, the Carpetbaggers.

I've gone forth with my new League Awareness knowing I wasn't a tool or a toy, but I'm a valuable team member. The grace that was given me I can afford to extend to others experiencing League struggle. I can award Cool Points, open the field, then step aside and let her tackle the Badge Monkey. I don't want to date Badge League, she does. 

Oh, the trustworthy FOAF surfaced the other evening. He was circling like a border collie in his work truck. The only reason he gets dirty is 'cause he want to. Perhaps the shame he displayed is over the long hours. If I want to catch up with him I'll need to be at the coffee shop 4 am for logger breakfast.

I thought I was socially inept. My friends say I am not. League is not money, looks, social skills and education

League is sportsmanship. Character, physical fitness, mental agility, intelligence, personality and the willingness to play well with others.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Whatever you think.

I will agree that what you say in your last IS what it SHOULD be,

I wouldnt know if a woman had any of those things, other than PF just be looking at her.


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Laura, you must have EMT training! About the time a thread is dead, setteled, or we have agreed to disagree, yoy bring 'er back from the verge!

I dont see what your saying. I see it in this example, but not as a whole.

Rule of thumb? Attractive women date rich guys and vice versa. Yes there are examples, and exceptions, but thats wjere leagues come from.....

If a guy says "out of his league", he means the woman is too attractive to be interested in him. Physically or intelligence doesnt matter, its the same answer. No its not right, but any guy over his mid twenties has been taught this lesson with a bazooka since childhood.

But what do i know? I am just a guy


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

yup. Thats whut I said.


----------



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

All this talk about women with or without make up on. I guess I am missing the point where if you do wear makeup you are not allowed in the dirt or someone thinks just because you do wear make up then you do not like to get dirty, get a garden going on, work with animals? I wear make up alright, but I can also shoot a gun, grow a garden, get dirty, go hiking and yes even go camping. I prefer country life to city life, would rather share my yard with chickens then asphalt. But I can still do all that with make up on. I guess what I am trying to say is maybe not judge someone by the cover, take time to read the book. Ya never know what the pages might read like until you get a taste.


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

Mickm....Hmmmm. Perhaps so many men say they like women without makeup on is because with it on we are then too beautiful to be in their league? haha. I wonder if this "If a guy says "out of his league", he means the woman is too attractive to be interested in him. Physically or intelligence doesnt matter, its the same answer." is my problem. Hmmmmm...

Cindilu, yeah I know. I don't do a lot of making up but I end up wearing nice looking clothing...not expensive but nice I guess. Most of it is garage sale and thrift store stuff but I take care of my stuff and like wearing clothes. I get a lot of comments similar...as if...I actually couldn't or wouldn't do something like haul hay or get dirty or pet muchless milk a cow.

Apparently this league stuff makes people not read books.


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

cindilu said:


> All this talk about women with or without make up on. I guess I am missing the point where if you do wear makeup you are not allowed in the dirt or someone thinks just because you do wear make up then you do not like to get dirty, get a garden going on, work with animals? I wear make up alright, but I can also shoot a gun, grow a garden, get dirty, go hiking and yes even go camping. I prefer country life to city life, would rather share my yard with chickens then asphalt. But I can still do all that with make up on. I guess what I am trying to say is maybe not judge someone by the cover, take time to read the book. Ya never know what the pages might read like until you get a taste.


It totally isn't about make-up. It's the instant judgment or attraction on "Looks." Looks like money (flash, debt), looks (glamor) and degree (faked), or the perception of that judgment being made upon you.

I think us Homesteady people have different Leagues than that. Ones that dig a little deeper into the true characteristics of what we want in a mate and relationship. What we want is to be loved, to share trust and respect.

I've known my League Bud neighbors or their family members as friends for 13 years. They knew me when I was frumpy dumpy and married. I didn't know of their wealth until a few years ago when a neighbor told me, when she stopped laughing at me for giving 2nd hand clothes. They drive 30 year old trucks and dress like most men out here, including the foragers living in tramp camps. They clean up pretty well. They aren't available for domestic relationship. They're using their league status to help me find the right man, one they think is good enough for me. I am doing things for them they cannot do for themselves.

Competitive team sportsmanship and strategy applied to social leagues is having very positive results. Everybody plays their position and plays their best. Support and cheer each other on. It gets everybody further down the field toward our goals.


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

No, i just like a woman without makeup. hair pulled back in jeans etc.....

I like the comfortable look.

I know very few women wear no make up. Ya'll definitely got a bad deal on that. I its too bad.


----------



## viggie (Jul 17, 2009)

I don't wear or even own makeup. But I'll still never be in anyone elses league here cuz I can't afford more land apparently. Even though money isn't supposed to matter. What silliness


----------



## WhyNot (Jun 21, 2011)

vigilant20 said:


> I don't wear or even own makeup. But I'll still never be in anyone elses league here cuz I can't afford more land apparently. Even though money isn't supposed to matter. What silliness


Yeah...now that's fun, isn't it?  There is discrimination and silliness no matter where you go, who you are, what you do.... I find it has best served me to use a Cartman line, "______ you guys, I'm going home."

Because my home, no matter where or when it is or even if it's mine...is where I make sense and people like and understand me. There it doesn't matter that no one else gets me or wants to be around me and certainly no one thinks I'm too pretty to simply talk to.

I don't even have land yet...well homesteading land but no one counts the other land either...or maybe they do...and that is what makes me not in their league either.

:shrug: I give up on trying to figure all that out. Clear blue sky out there...I'm going up on the mountain.


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

vigilant20 said:


> I don't wear or even own makeup. But I'll still never be in anyone elses league here cuz I can't afford more land apparently. Even though money isn't supposed to matter. What silliness



Vigilant, your volanteer work and interest in self improvment should make you very attractive to lots of guys!

I just like a "natural" look. I will admit i am a wierdo. As i have said, i cant tell ya what guys like, i can only tell ya what this guy likes.


I am sooooo different from the majority of society, i shouldnt be commenting i guess.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Mick, U say you like her hair pulled b ack in her jeans??"
That dont sound too comfortable to me LOL


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

Again, it's not WHAT you have that puts you in the upper Leagues with more choices, it's how you use what you have. It's your attitude and how you play. The ability to play and push past our own self-limiting thoughts and actions to score Cool Points is what alters people's perceptions of us. 

Who awards the Cool Points? The Team Captains, those who others want to emulate. They have shown their abilities to work hard and to encourage others.

Being ODD is a matter of perception. DD is ODD, she's been called weird. Many people weren't very nice about it. She carries the stigma and social barriers of autism. She doesn't wear make-up to school, her hair is unadorned and sometimes in a ponytail. She doesn't try to be anyone but herself. Fitting in by trying to be Normal won't happen. Embrace your Oddness, Farm Girl. That's her Happy Place.

Yet she escaped from the retard room dragging THAT stigma, gained massive Cool Points and joined the top League. Instead of those negative perceptions about her, she is Cute, Sweet, Funny, Hella Smart and has options. Her integrity shines through. Those still stuck in the retard room get out once in awhile. Cool to them is hanging with DD and she brings them to the Cool Table with the jocks. DD gets more Cool Points because she doesn't snub those with less. She's admired.

If you're gonna be Odd, don't be insecure about it. It's the perceptions of the intangibles that make a difference.

Mick, you have a kid who does league sports, right? The principles of good sportsmanship and work is what propels a person or team to the top of their league and into higher leagues. We have all these athletic programs for kids because it builds....????


----------



## SimplerTimez (Jan 20, 2008)

Okay, I'm gonna grab the other end of the rope here Laura and tug a bit.

The whole absurdity of 'cool points' is just, in my opinion, destructive to our kids. Why can't we teach our children enough self-confidence to not worry about what others think of them, if they are being true to themselves? As mother to three daughters, I have watched my kids contort themselves into pretzels trying to fit in, usually by doing stupid things. The strength to be themselves was not something I was ever able to communicate well to them apparently. I've never been about fitting in myself, being an introvert and usually not giving two whits about what others thought of me as my general life's walk even as a kid. The times I have been most unhappy is when I have tried to be what someone else thought I should be, or act the way someone else wanted me to act. 

If team captains were truly based on ability to work hard and the encouragement of others, I would agree. Most often in my life experiences, that was not the persona of team captains be they male or female, especially in the youth arena. There are of course, exceptions. 

I am happy for your daughter and her social successes and the fact that she is comfortable being herself and being kind to others.

And I realize that I am probably beating my head against the wall, because I think social constructs as a whole are designed to label and pigeonhole people into manageable arenas and herd them, leaving only the periphery of society for freethinkers and individualists. We are as humans, social beings. Without societal norms, anarchy would be the tone of the day, so I realize there must be some conforming in some areas.
Some of us just need less social interaction and acceptance than others, and find this league and coolness thing leaves a bad taste in our mouths. 

~ST (putting away her soapbox and going back to work on pricing stuff)


----------



## cindilu (Jan 27, 2008)

I am going to stick my neck out and just say that I beat my own drum. I am not a follower of who does what, says what and who is popular and who isn't. I guess I could really care less. I do not care to live up to the Jone's or what ever that would include. 

I just want my own property, with enough room to put a small garden on, have a couple of chickens, and run my daycare out of said property. That is it, my needs are simple I would like to think. And it doesn't even have to come with a guy. I am prepared to go guyless, I just want to go, lol.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

U all have gotton so far from the op its amazeing, And I dont know why it should be. That happens with every post.
L, Ofg all you said, I agrewe with your next to last post only. Ive been odd my entire life. Always tried to do things differently. I dressed like either a 50s hood, or a 1930s farmer. I farmed intentionally with ancient equipment, I have cap and ball pistols.
NEVER felt the lest ashamed about how I am, and am, rather proud that I lived my life on my terms.
Wouldnt advise it to anybody else to try. Not worth the effort, in the wide spectrum of things.
Ive always constantly had to show that I wasnt what I seemed to others to be.


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I totally agree with you ST. The entire peer pressure contortionism to "fit in" is stupid and destructive. It still exists and every kid in school feels it. How they choose to deal with it is up to them. The contortionists, whether they're climbing or dumbing down, do not come off as sincere and authentic. 

Those who choose to embrace who they are, the Freethinkers and Individualists become the Trendsetters, not Followers. We are free to create our own Leagues or be drafted into Leagues that share our true values.

I was blindsided that Leagues exist in the adult world, and it IS competition team sports. It was like freakin' high school, it sucked. My choice is how to deal with these social aspects of establishing relationships. I'm glad I got it figured out! 

Being myself, I work for the Feminazi Sisterhood of Perpetual Victims. I sold tickets to our fundraiser in the Man Caves. My immediate supervisor is a vegetarian Bhudist treehugger. I launched a small logging company with clearcut contracts and sold organic beef. Pigeonhole ME! Shaking out in Varsity League based on character, integrity, honesty, trustworthiness, hard work and respect because I DON'T CARE about money, looks social skill and diplomas.

So yeah it can suck when you don't get it. Once you get it, you can display the responsibilities of good sportsmanship, or you can be a Poor Sport, pick up your ball and go home.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I might as well pick mine up and head home. Im lost lol


----------



## no1cowboy (May 2, 2004)

mickm said:


> I just like a "natural" look. I will admit i am a wierdo. As i have said, i cant tell ya what guys like, i can only tell ya what this guy likes.
> 
> 
> I am sooooo different from the majority of society, i shouldnt be commenting i guess.


I also like this look!


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Laura said:


> Again, it's not WHAT you have that puts you in the upper Leagues with more choices, it's how you use what you have. It's your attitude and how you play. The ability to play and push past our own self-limiting thoughts and actions to score Cool Points is what alters people's perceptions of us.
> 
> Who awards the Cool Points? The Team Captains, those who others want to emulate. They have shown their abilities to work hard and to encourage others.
> 
> ...




heck i guess we are wierd. my son played and i coached sports, because it was fun.

Infact, my son isnt plsying basebalk this year because the town i live closest to takes it way too serious, at too early of an age, in my opinion.

No, i sm sorry, i sint gettin your anslogies here!


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

I fo my best to notice people, and teach my kids to notice people, that are good prople. infact, 

I kinda like the wierd ones!


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

mickm said:


> heck i guess we are wierd. my son played and i coached sports, because it was fun.
> 
> Infact, my son isnt plsying basebalk this year because the town i live closest to takes it way too serious, at too early of an age, in my opinion.
> 
> No, i sm sorry, i sint gettin your anslogies here!


 A Good Sport is always up for Sandlot no matter which league they're in. It doesn't matter if you're playing up, down or lateral as long as you're having fun and improving skills. Pitch the ball and see who can hit.

If you choose to subscribe to Dating League thinking, then you need to accept it as another competitive sports subject to the rules of sportsmanship and douchebaggery. "Out of my League" is completely self limiting, and a permanent condition for those who refuse to play at all.

Let's use another analogy. Picking the sweetest fruit from the top of the trees is "Out of My League." It would require tools and effort. I will let the birds pick for me and hope for the best, I will pick only the low hanging fruit.

I don't know about others and their relationships with their orchards, but I'm in major competition with birds! I've learned the difference between a sapsucker and a bugpicker and a fruiteater. I win most years.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

I subscribe to your 2nd and last para.


----------



## mickm (Jul 23, 2010)

Laura said:


> A Good Sport is always up for Sandlot no matter which league they're in. It doesn't matter if you're playing up, down or lateral as long as you're having fun and improving skills. Pitch the ball and see who can hit.
> 
> If you choose to subscribe to Dating League thinking, then you need to accept it as another competitive sports subject to the rules of sportsmanship and douchebaggery. "Out of my League" is completely self limiting, and a permanent condition for those who refuse to play at all.
> 
> ...


when ut comes to dating, or relationships in general, they are best when both feel they are lucky to be in that relationship. I guess both should feel lije they are out of their league.

Jyst a little!:bow:


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

mickm said:


> when ut comes to dating, or relationships in general, they are best when both feel they are lucky to be in that relationship. I guess both should feel lije they are out of their league.
> 
> Jyst a little!:bow:


 And you can't judge them by their shoes. You won't know anything until you toss the ball with them and learn if you both enjoy it.

I didn't put myself in Varsity League. My Quillbillies did because I play Cowpies well with them, and I survived the Roller Derby Queens in town without a meltdown. I have a responsibility to keep playing well for my friends who think and speak highly of me.


----------



## FarmboyBill (Aug 19, 2005)

Im thinking were getting a female Zong here lol


----------



## GeorgiaLady (Jul 18, 2012)

This thread is way out of my league. :gaptooth:


----------



## Laura (May 10, 2002)

I did another slingshot and blew a fine lady right past her backstabbers into power position. Then I explained Roller Derby to her. She'd been wondering what the heck's been going on, too. I have another quality team mate and trusted friend. :banana:

I'm getting the hang of this Leagues thing. Off to fire meeting with the Drama Kings. Their games are football and billiards and p...ing matches.


----------

