# I need to set up a backup heat source in case of SHTF-any ideas?



## ladybug (Aug 18, 2002)

Our house is all electric and we do not have a fireplace, any ideas on how to install a wood burning stove when there isn't an existing stovepipe or chimney? We have 3 acres of mostly hardwoods and yet the house has central heat that costs a fortune in the winter. Any ideas or does anyone know what it would cost to have someone install one?


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

Wait first what fuel can you get today and the prices Next what fuel can you get all by yourself

example
for me here are my real options
Ele.
Nat. gas 
propane
wood
coal


What can I get all by myself.
wood right on my land
coal from the beach one mile away

the cost or the other fuels became a deal breaker a few years ago.

My stove works with coal, wood, and oil drip

What if in a shtf if you have no fuel? 

5is how I did the planning as to what route to go. It really is going to be different for people based on their personal siduation.

Now, my question would be do people where you live WHO currently heat with wood only what are thier thoughts of three acres of hardwood--is it going to be replaced with new growth to use in time or will you run out of fuel in a few years. --I do not know

We did add the stove and the chim after

Height of the chimmey will really impacte the cost. The cabin is a low 12 feet from the floor to the roof at the highest point a stove pipe needed to be. Plus 2 to 3 more feet for the outdoor piece that sticks up.

The House stove is in the basement. So 5 feet to the first floor but that has a cathedro ceiling so add 27 to reach the roof from the floor of the first floor ---making 32 feet now add two to three feet to extend the pipe to the great outdoors 

That all to show that there is alot of thought cause then there is different type of pipe I went spendy on the house =metalbesta vs this metal stuff at the hardware store that is so much cheaper than the foot price of the besta.

It will cost more for going thur floor or walls and there are some special pipes for that. Oh the diameter should match the stove and that is another factor. PLEASE get a chimmy sweep best to have it. 

so. it can be dirt cheap or a pretty penny some of the cost you have NO control over and yet you do control alot of the price.


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## Cheryl in SD (Apr 22, 2005)

My dh is looking to install a Rocket Stove Mass Heater. You can build them yourself for very little or hire someone to build it for you. We just did a google search and then ordered the book from Amazon. We have wood heat, but would like to convert the garage (basement) into more living space. This would heat that.


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## dkhern (Nov 30, 2012)

ladybug im kinds in the same situtation. i found a deal on a wood stove ((wood is the only sustainable option here) in your case i dont think 3a would be sustainable). im looking at locating stove near a window and removing glass to run pipe out then up. you dont have to have pipe above roof if there is space around pipe and the pipe is not near a part of the roof that is higher. if you have to run pipe thru wall or ceiling you will need to use triple wall pipe. its expensive. no idea what it would cost in your area. i feel it could be a diy project. good luck


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Move to West Virginia and buy a home that has FREE GAS. When the power goes out. you still have heat.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

That was my solution Darren.. although, the gas isn't so reliable.. you have to rely on the well being pumped. I've already run mine out twice now.. I have found out how to pump the well now. No that I'd do it without permission.. unless it was freeze or survive... BUT, I also have a wood stove and a fireplace as backup.. 

And if'n a guy had a generator that ran on NG, then he'll have no worries when the electric goes out....

Now if a guy also has a couple huge 100 barrel field tanks siting on his property filled with crude, he could always use a waste oil heater....  Except something tells me that green oil will burn one up fast.. OH.. I've also figured out where the drip gas collects too 

TO the OP, you may want to talk to your home owners insurance company before you install a wood heater... You may not like the new rates, or may lose your coverage all together.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Last winter we lost power... I pulled out my generator and my propane fired torpedo heater and fired it up.. heated up part of the house really fast... ran it once every couple hours for 15 minutes or so.... 

Just thinking of short term SHTF options for you.


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## simi-steading (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh... and then there is always an option like this... A central boiler... wood fired and sits outdoors... Your insurance company would like this a lo better than an indoor wood stove.

http://www.centralboiler.com/applications.php


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Price out a 3 foot section of triplewall pipe. You will need enough to get Higher than your roof line. Yes sometimes you can get away with it being shorter than the roofline but winds can change and mess with your draft,making burning neer impossible due to smoke comeing in the house. Sometimes the pipe can be more expensive than the stove. You'll need a nonflamable surface for the stove to sit on and the same on the surrounding walls,usally a gap is needed between the non- flamable surface and the wall. If you are going to buy a stove,look for one that has the flue going straight up out of the stove-not one that the flue comes out the back then has an elbow. The less elbows-the better. Elbows rot,are the weekest part of the flueing, and creasote builds there, and inhibits the draft. You will also need a support for the pipe where it goes thru the roof,it also is an area where no wood can come in contact with any part of the pipe. You need a pipe cap, keeps ot birds,rain. Rain will run down the pipe and nasty creasote will be dripping in your house.Place stove in a centeral part of the home. As you can see, read up, you can do this yourself. BUT, your insurance will probably ask if you had it professionaly installed. You could call in an installer afterward and get it OKed much cheeper.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

A masonry chimney on the outside of an exterior wall doesn't really cost that much and can be built in a day.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

You are going to have to check locally to see what the building codes are and what your insurance company will allow. Once you know if and how you can do it, then you can get estimates from local installers. If you are handy, this could be a DIY project.

The floor has to be strong enough to support the weight of the stove. There has to be enough clearance and/or heat baffels so you don't start the house on fire. A chiminy will draw best if it's a straight shot with no bends. If you have to put in bends, two 45 degree bends are better than a 90. All chiminy pipe should have at least a slight upward angle. A chiminy on the outside of the house will run cooler and creasote will condense more than one run through a heated space. Your hearth has to be big enough that you don't dribble hot embers onto a flameable floor. Get a woodstove big enough so it can hold enough wood to last through the night.

A wood stove will radiate heat to the area around it but it won't heat the areas further away. You need to locate it so you are heating the important areas like the kitchen and bathroom if the power goes off. Locate it so you can you keep the pipes from freezing without electricity. If you can't, then you will have to drain the pipes and no runnibg water is a PIA.

You could put a blower on the stove and move the heat to where it's needed but the blower won't work if the power goes out. The outdoor wood furnace also won't work if the power goes out because you have to pump the heat into the house. 

Our fearless leader has decreed that he is shutting down coal fired electrical plants and the price of electricity will skyrocket. I think you are very wise to put on an alternative heat source. I am shooting for a very minimal grid electric usage here and none at the new place. I can't afford an enormous electric bill, which is what's comming. I am going to do solar because once it's installed and working the only costs are for new batteries every so often. I'm trying for self sufficiency in most things. Of course you can't run heat or AC off a moderate solar set up so the wood heat will have to be the main source. I am not sure, but I think 3 acres of mature hardwoods is close to being sustainable for heat in GA.


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## Rainy (Jan 21, 2010)

Yes, make sure to check with your insurance company and the city...
In our town, if you want a wood stove and you want to be covered by the insurance we use... the city must come out and they will tell you who can do the work, because if it is not done by who they recommend then checked back out by the city inspector, they won't insure your place....


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

In a SHTF situation, the very LAST thing on my priority list is someone else's permission, particularly, the gov't.
Get a wood stove, run it out the side of your house and up the wall/roof.
Figure a hundred bucks every 3 feet for a total, that's using the triple wall SS flue.
I've got a 3 story house with a strove on the bottom floor. Cost about $12OO for everything including the stove, which I got a deal on. Saved almost the whole cost already this winter on my previous heating bill from the last year.

ETA.
For the worryworts, tell the insurance company it is NOT your primary source of heat, it's for decoration.
That gets you past their "regulations".


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

For safety I would go with a professional installation. The last thing any of us needs at any time let alone SHTF is a house fire.


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

I heat my 650 sq ft house with wood .I did all the work myself .I studied all the safty requirements and built a beautiful hearth with fireboard,slate and cast stone. My chimney goes out the window and it is a two story house, I spent approx. 1500, including the stove which I got a great price on .I do recommend you get all your pieces from the same manufacturer or you will have a fit problem ( btdt).

Outside pipe 100$ per three ft section , thru the wall kit 300$, stove 500$, plywood for window , fire proof board for wall and floor, mesh for installing stone work, cement, stones , slate .Didn't happen fast though, took me a couple months.

I clean my chimney every month


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## Vickie44 (Jul 27, 2010)

The wood comes from the property , I burn about 4 to five cords and have a splitter .


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

chimney , any existing chimney is likely to be one you would not want any way 

an air tight stove like a Quadrafire that is what i use , and a new double wall metalbestos stainless steel chimney is the way to go.
all you need is a place where you can go strait up from the stove and out the roof one or two small bends can be dine

mine goes up from the stove 45s toward the wall to go around the ceiling joist then 45s back strait up and out the roof then it is 6 feet out the roof with support braces to make sure it is 2 feet higher than anything 10 feet around , and we have a very steep roof 

if you have a second story usually worst case is you give up a small amount of space in the edge or corner of a room 

the UL rated high efficiency stoves can be just a few inches from a combustible wall 3 in the case of my stove from the back 8 from the sides 

so they don't take up the hole room , unrated stoves need to be 18-24 inches from a wall loosing that much space behind a stove really cuts into a room

if professionally installed that was 500 dollars an took 1/2 a day my insurance didn't even go up at all

we bought a floor model stove for 999.99 down from about 1500-1600 new the most expensive part is the good chimny at about 50 dollars a foot 

a high efficiency stove also uses less wood , we burn 3 cord for 50% or more of our heat in Wisconsin and ours is an old drafty house , as i seal it up and insulate it more we keep getting farther on the same wood.

the stove is so efficient that we don't have very much to clean and we actually clean the stove pipe from inside the house with the use of a large garbage bag , some big rubber bands 

the first section of rod gets poked thru a hole about a foot down the side of the garbage bag then rubber band the bag to the ceiling thimble then work the brush up the chimney add sections as you go up the carbon falls into the bag , add sections of rod as you go till you reach the top then work way back down till you pull the brush and last section of rod with the bag and walk it carefully outside

make sure to only use a nylon brush on stainless steel chimneys


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## Win07_351 (Dec 7, 2008)

If you're just looking for a heat backup in case power is out, a kerosene heater in the 20,000btu range will heat a couple rooms and you can heat water on top of them (the round type). If you consider this route, make sure you can buy kerosene locally at the pump at a gas station. It's much too expensive to buy by the gallon at a store.

I like the idea of a wood stove better if you have your own wood source.


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## kasilofhome (Feb 10, 2005)

the first section of rod gets poked thru a hole about a foot down the side of the garbage bag then rubber band the bag to the ceiling thimble then work the brush up the chimney add sections as you go up the carbon falls into the bag , add sections of rod as you go till you reach the top then work way back down till you pull the brush and last section of rod with the bag and walk it carefully outside

This is just what I do. It is so easy to the point that I hope that it is in the long term the best way to do it. Anyone see a problem with this way?


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

kasilofhome said:


> the first section of rod gets poked thru a hole about a foot down the side of the garbage bag then rubber band the bag to the ceiling thimble then work the brush up the chimney add sections as you go up the carbon falls into the bag , add sections of rod as you go till you reach the top then work way back down till you pull the brush and last section of rod with the bag and walk it carefully outside
> 
> This is just what I do. It is so easy to the point that I hope that it is in the long term the best way to do it. Anyone see a problem with this way?


I once had some one comment that that was great till the screen plugs up , well after 5 years i looked at my screen from the roof it has 1/2 wire mesh and it doesn't look like they are collecting any thing in the least , I asked the company i bought the stove from about cleaning she informed me that the stove i had a quadrafire was running so clean they are telling people as long as they burned dry wood every 2 years was fine for cleaning the chimney , and they weren't even very dirty after that. 

dry wood = happy chimney 
and it is a lot easier to get started , give more heat 

my guess it you would have to be doing something very wrong , like bad wet wood and lots of it to clog the screen 


if it weren't for the wood pile I don't think anyone would even know we burn wood , my mail man asked when he saw my big pile of wood not long after we got the stove , i explained yes an there was a fire going right then , if you look at the top of the chimney you can see the heat bending the light creating a mirage effect but no smoke or smell is present.

the neighbor was over not long after we got our stove 5 years ago and the first thing he said was your house doesn't smell like wood smoke , nope and had a fire going at that time , his stove was in the garage and would smell up the garage


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I would recommend wood heat...in its simplest log type form. Brand new box stoves are under $200....wont heat a large house but better than nothing.

First priority ---safe installation---- this should meet any codes that locals or ins. outfits expect of you and then some especially if you have small children--a fence around the stove is a MUST! 

A trailer home can present challenges----a metal bestos chimney is what you need and perhaps some reinforcement to the floor joists if you want to add brick/stone.
A block chimney is not "hard" but heavy back busting work. We built ours for $135 in 1994 roughly 20ft...from slab to over roof peak... 

As far as wood heat radiating...even without a fan...our house is 60 ft long and 28 ft wide....our stove kept the house above 70 degrees from end to end during the icestorm in 1998...no power for almost 2 weeks...temps. 25-35 degrees outside. 

I also suggest a flat topped stove to serve as a place to cook as well. A stove with a shaker grate and removable ash pan is also very convenient and able to be tweaked better for high heat output....think canning!


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I always got a chuckle , my grandfather was a stone mason for 45 years , he and his business partner were the guys you called if you wanted a fancy fire place , chimney or monuments. if you take a tour off rich peoples houses in southeast Wisconsin you will find his work , he did normal stuff also thousands of chimney repairs new flue liners and such but if you want to see the fancy chimneys and fire places you need to look rich , were talking way past McMansion into strait up Mansions. so being closely related to the foremost authority on stone , block or brick chimneys in southeast Wisconsin , i asked what i should do for a chimney , he said you see what i have in my house , yes , a metal chimney that goes strait up thru the roof from the stove , yup that's what you should get , unless you like cleaning them or paying guys like me to work on them but there aren't many guys like me left.
a double wall metalbestos metal chimney kept inside the house till it goes thru the roof , will last longer with no repairs , clean easier , draft better , and cost less if your paying someone else to put it in or repair it , and paying some one else to professionally install it saves money on the insurance , and it installs in a day. 

that is why the master stone mason , who did install his own metal chimney , has a metal chimney , he installed it in a day 32 years ago , and hasn't done anything but clean it since 

my parents have a masonry chimney it was in the house built in the 50's and in the same time he has made 2 or 3 major repairs , that had my mother not been his daughter would have paid for a metal chimney.

they have nearly identical stoves both installed by my grandfather in about 1980 , but his is easier to get a draft , my parents live only a few hundred yards from my grand parents and i spent my early years running over to grandma and grandpas , he would say it's getting chilly in here and would let me build the fire.


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## secretcreek (Jan 24, 2010)

We have a 1950's - woodburner in our unfinished basement. It's no longer safe to use- holes in firebox, etc. It has a pipe that goes directly into our masonry chimney that the furnace uses- the heat pump is about 8 feet to the right of the woodburner. 

When we did use the woodburner- it warmed up the basement and the floors of our home - but unless I was doing laundry and hanging it in the basement- this was a super inefficient heating source. Even if I opened the basement door to let the heat come up the stairs it was not enough to warm our two story home at all. We talked about cutting holes in the ductwork to cause the heat to naturally rise thru the ductwork but we never did this. 

Zoom to 20 yrs later and I am staring down the reality of the need to have a third source of heat after the heat pump and kerosene heaters. I could buy a wood burner on clearance- seriously considered one I saw at TSC last week under $300.00 to just have on hand, to replace the burner in the basement. I have no clue if our brick chimney outside is even safe anymore- I sure hope it is...<??>.the heat pump vents out of it. We are surrounded by woods full of hickory, maple, oak, poplar, hornbeam, beech, etc... Wood is everywhere.

I just don't see how it'd be a bad idea to have a wood stove already on hand in the event of SHTF. It certainly wouldn't take that much to get it installed in place of the old one, unless the interior of the chimney is no longer stable. Guess I need that inspected.

These are the things that reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreally concern me. We could easily have plenty of wood if our electric was no longer an option for our heatpump or generator - and our kerosene heaters are not a long term plan either...doubt they'd hold up very long. This is the stuff that has been on my mind for years and years... I'm a very non demanding spouse, never pushed many issues as DH lets me prep... but I think it's been time to prep with much much deeper forethought for some time.

I got our water source figured out now to think on heating in a new reality.


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## backwoods (Sep 12, 2004)

Rainy said:


> Yes, make sure to check with your insurance company and the city...
> In our town, if you want a wood stove and you want to be covered by the insurance we use... the city must come out and they will tell you who can do the work, because if it is not done by who they recommend then checked back out by the city inspector, they won't insure your place....


OMG what a racket! Sounds like the mafia runs your town!
We want a wood stove put in, we put it in, that simple. I'm always shocked by all the permits and baloney that folks living in the city go through just to do something to their own property...Sorry got way OT there.

Wood heat is the most reliable long term way to heat, if you have a source for wood, and are able to cut it. Even if you buy your firewood from a neighbor, it's cheaper than electric or gas.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

secretcreek said:


> We have a 1950's - woodburner in our unfinished basement. It's no longer safe to use- holes in firebox, etc. It has a pipe that goes directly into our masonry chimney that the furnace uses- the heat pump is about 8 feet to the right of the woodburner.
> 
> When we did use the woodburner- it warmed up the basement and the floors of our home - but unless I was doing laundry and hanging it in the basement- this was a super inefficient heating source. Even if I opened the basement door to let the heat come up the stairs it was not enough to warm our two story home at all. We talked about cutting holes in the ductwork to cause the heat to naturally rise thru the ductwork but we never did this.
> 
> ...



get your chimney inspected , if it needs work get a estimate to put a metal liner down it , as well as other options they can do 

yes you can get a cheap wood stove , BUT , you have to baby sit them , new UL listed high efficiency air tight stoves control the air in so that you don't have to sit and monitor them they save about 30% of your wood from going up the chimney compared to a 50% efficient cheap stove 

putting them on the main floor of your house also helps to both put the heat where you want it , and makes monitoring them at a glance easy.


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## Nimrod (Jun 8, 2010)

Old houses, from before rural electric, were heated with wood. They had grates cut in the ceiling/floor to alow warm air to rise through to the next floor. They worked really well. 

My neighbor has a barrell stove in the basement that is surrounded by bricks. He builds a hot, fast burning fire in the morning and another one in the evening. The fire goes out in between times. The brick heats up and is a thermal mass to store the heat. It radiates it for 12 hours or more and his house is nice and warm. He burns dry pine but there is minimal creasote because the fire is so hot. A similar idea is called a Russian or Finnish stove. It's more complicated to build. You do need to have a good footing to support the weight.


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## wendygoerl (Apr 30, 2005)

By "electric" do you mean radiant heating, or electrically-heated forced-air heating? I'm gussing the latter, which means you already have some kind of established airflow in and out of your house. If your concern is heating your whole house, you might want to look in to a wood-burning furnace that can be added as a supplement to your existing heating system. Even if you end up having to install a chimney, my guess is you'll be able to make up for it with all the deadfall your woods produce. And you can toss old pizza boxes (and other food contaminated paper products that can't be recycled) in it, too.


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## Marilyn (Aug 2, 2006)

OP, you asked about cost. The best way to determine this is to visit your local woodstove shop. Look at airtight, high efficiency stoves. Why look at inexpensive stopgap measures, when you can start off with something that can reduce your heating costs in good times - and then it will be in place in the event of an emergency?

Good employees at the stove shop will be able to direct you to qualified people that can give a price on safe installation. Buying and installing a woodstove is no time to go cheap. Your lives could depend on it.


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## krebolj (Feb 23, 2013)

We put in a wood burning stove when we bought our house, because we like "rustic" things. The stove itself was $150 at Harbor Freight, the stone hearth was $700, and the chimney piping was about $250. My husband did everything except the stone. This is our third year with it and we love it. I plan on purchasing replacement parts "just in case" as we can afford them.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

the only problem with not letting insurance know, is if the house burns down because of the wood stove, they wont pay.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Try getting a insurance policy with both wood heat and a "solid fuel" burning cookstove. And yes, we have a "backup" gas stove and "backup" oil furnace, and "backup" gas fireplace.Then add the Rottweilers. Then the "tripping Hazard" of the woodpile... probably a bad hair day would even keep us from getting insurance.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Imho, you should never burn your own wood. Cut someone else's as long as it's available. If your area is like mine, there's a never ending sources of free wood. A tree dies on the neighbors, ask if they want it... tree services in town cutting down wood... forest service land, etc.

I keep extra sections of stove pipe in the barn, just in case... the single walled stuff is cheap. I wouldn't install it, build a mongo fire in the stove, and go on a road trip... but, I would use it if I were going to be home all the time.


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