# .22 help needed



## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

I have a .22 marlin glenfield that set for a year or two. During that time a think a wasp built a mud nest in the barrel. I fired the gun two or three times before I figured out that the bullets were not coming out. Now I have a nice 10-22 that has a lead plug in the barrel about 8" from the exit end of the barrel. Won't budge. Any ideas on getting the lead out?


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

1.Try heating barrel up,lead should start to dribble at about 600
2.Brass rod and beat from rcvr end forward if possible,I had to do this to a 10/22 but that barrel comes off...

Darn mud wasp,we have to cover any aiir outlets for tractor or trailer,put air chucks in box,etc,etc


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Thanks. Torch time. Google says lead melts @ 622*


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

I'd try driving them out first.

If they start to melt, and THEN don't come out, you'll not be ABLE to push them out.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

penetrating oil and a brass rod to beat it back thru 

actually you may need a few lengths of brass rod depending on where the obstruction is you can measure that with your cleaning rod 

you only want about 4 inches to beat on sticking out or you can to easily bend it over 

get the biggest diameter brass rod you can slid in the barrel without resistance , should be right about 3/16 

the good new is that being a blow back operation and not a locked breach it probably didn't do much if any damage , it just blew back harder than normal and vented the pressure 

lead melts at 622 but that bullet isn't all lead , if it was it would have a BHN of about 5 but most lead 22 bullets will be more like 8-11 for a BHN that usually means Antimony Sb on the table of elements is used to harden the alloy it also increases the melting temp and gets it closer to 680-700*f if it is copper plated you may have to get it even hotter yet

i would try bearing it out with the brass rod first 

cheap penetrating oil can be made form 1/2 ATF automatic transmission fluid , 1/2 k1 i add 10% marvel mystery oil also so that i have a 45/45/10 mix , it is actually great all around gun oil and close to Kroil a commercially sold penetrating oil


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

if your going to keep storing it in them conditions , you might want an oiled patch rubber banded over the muzzle to keep unwanteds out


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## frankva (May 21, 2009)

And the moral of the story...


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

edcopp said:


> I have a .22 *marlin glenfield* that set for a year or two. During that time a think a wasp built a mud nest in the barrel. I fired the gun two or three times before I figured out that the bullets were not coming out. Now I have a nice *10-22* that has a lead plug in the barrel about 8" from the exit end of the barrel. Won't budge. Any ideas on getting the lead out?


You've gotten good advice on how to remove the bullets. What I want to know is the rifle a Marlin-Glenfield (probably Model 60) or a Ruger 10/22?


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## zant (Dec 1, 2005)

GCPs recipe for a penetrant is a good one-have used for years....it also is a great cutting lube for glass cutters.


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

I wish I could lay claim to the penetrating oil recipe , that is all Ed Harris it is Ed's red oil to use in conjunction with Ed's red cleaner 

bore cleaner recipe Ed's Red' Bore Cleaner


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## Cabin Fever (May 10, 2002)

GREENCOUNTYPETE said:


> I wish I could lay claim to the penetrating oil recipe , that is all Ed Harris it is Ed's red oil to use in conjunction with Ed's red cleaner
> 
> bore cleaner recipe Ed's Red' Bore Cleaner


I knew Ed Harris was in a lot of movies involving guns, but I had no idea he had his own formulas for gun oil and cleaner! He is one of my favorite actors.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Cabin Fever said:


> You've gotten good advice on how to remove the bullets. What I want to know is the rifle a Marlin-Glenfield (probably Model 60) or a Ruger 10/22?


Mod. 60 Purchased new in 1970. $49.95 if I remember right. Scope was included. Prices ain't what the once were.


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

Thanks to all for the help. Back in operation now.


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## Badger (Jun 11, 2010)

Are you gonna tell us how you did it?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Badger said:


> Are you gonna *tell us how you did it*?


I agree.
These stories need the endings


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

The plug was about 5" from the muzzle. The 12" long drill bit that I located was 3/16" in diameter. Drilled it out on slow speed. I might still have a bit of lead to work out. Test drives fairly accurate.

1 drill bit $9 an extra .22 rifle back in service. Priceless.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I might still have a bit of lead to work out.


If you've fired it, there's minimal lead left 
Glad to hear it turned out well


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## RonM (Jan 6, 2008)

Just happy it didnt create backpressure and blow up when you initially fired it....


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## Dale Alan (Sep 26, 2012)

Glad it worked out for you . .22s are a staple .


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## edcopp (Oct 9, 2004)

RonM said:


> Just happy it didnt create backpressure and blow up when you initially fired it....


Me 2, be assured.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Just happy it didnt *create backpressure and blow up* when you initially fired it


That's nearly impossible with a 22* semi auto*, since they work on "blowback" instead of a locked breech.

Most of the barrels are relatively thick compared to the chamber pressures generated by a 22 RF cartridge.

It only generates 24,000 PSI MAXIMUM

Max Chamber Pressure - SAAMI Specs


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

This is a good example of fps lost in a semi-auto .22. I remember once when someone claimed that no power was lost in such a rifle. Not only was the fps much lower than a locked breech, it was nil! 

Martin


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Not only was the fps much lower than a locked breech, it was nil!


There is no logical reason why one would be measurably slower than the other.
*Physics *and *Internal Ballistics* both say they should be virtually the same


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Physics says that each bullet is impelled out of the cartridge with exactly the same force as long as the powder charge behind it is the same regardless of breech conditions or barrel length. What determines the muzzle fps depends upon how much of that force is employed elsewhere within the weapon's mechanism. In this case of a bullet not exiting the barrel, 100% of the force was lost before the bullet reached the muzzle. Thus the muzzle fps was zero.

Martin


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Paquebot said:


> Physics says that each bullet is impelled out of the cartridge with exactly the same force as long as the powder charge behind it is the same *regardless of breech conditions or barrel length*. What determines the muzzle fps depends upon how much of that force is employed elsewhere within the weapon's mechanism. In this case of a bullet not exiting the barrel, 100% of the force was lost before the bullet reached the muzzle. Thus the muzzle fps was zero.
> 
> Martin


None of that has anything to do with *velocity loss in a semi vs a locked breech* 22.

Also, with a 22 RF, when barrels are too long, you can actually LOSE velocity due to friction.

You can get maximum velocities with just 16 inches of barrel with most 22 RF loads


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Paquebot said:


> Physics says that each bullet is impelled out of the cartridge with exactly the same force as long as the powder charge behind it is the same regardless of breech conditions or barrel length. What determines the muzzle fps depends upon how much of that force is employed elsewhere within the weapon's mechanism. In this case of a bullet not exiting the barrel, 100% of the force was lost before the bullet reached the muzzle. Thus the muzzle fps was zero.
> 
> Martin





Bearfootfarm said:


> None of that has anything to do with *velocity loss in a semi vs a locked breech* 22.
> 
> Also, with a 22 RF, when barrels are too long, you can actually LOSE velocity due to friction.
> 
> You can get maximum velocities with just 16 inches of barrel with most 22 RF loads


Barrel length has nothing to do with how fast the bullet is expelled from the cartridge. Doesn't matter if the barrel is 2" or 2'. The charge behind it determines that. Muzzle velocity or feet per second after that is another thing altogether. 

Martin


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Barrel length has nothing to do with how fast the bullet is expelled from the cartridge. Doesn't matter if the barrel is 2" or 2'. The charge behind it determines that. Muzzle velocity or feet per second after that is another thing altogether.


You said:


> This is a good example of *fps lost in a semi-auto* .22. I remember once when someone claimed that no power was lost in such a rifle. Not only was the *fps much lower than a locked breech*, it was nil!


Nothing you've said since that has had anything to do with *what I replied to*.


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> You said:
> 
> 
> Nothing you've said since that has had anything to do with *what I replied to*.


I replied to *physics* and *internal ballistics*. With the bullets failing to leave the barrel, that's about as internal as one can get! 

You should know where all of the power goes in a blocked 10-22 barrel. You should also know what is needed for anything to be propelled forward. A bullet needs something to hold it in place. If it didn't, it would be the casing which becomes the part which moves much like a rocket. Again, you should know that. Ed's case is typical of what happens with a blocked semi-auto barrel. All of the explosive force of the gunpowder was lost when it exhausted through the loading mechanism. Had it been a bolt action, the force would quite probably have pulverized the blockage by the compressed air and Ed would have seen only a cloud of dust.

Martin


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## GREENCOUNTYPETE (Jul 25, 2006)

however he could have seen a bulged or ruptured barrel , always check the bore if you can it is just good practice because while it isn't nearly as often a problem with 22 , a lot of other guns are almost a sure thing to cause damage if fired with a blocked barrel 

if your lucky you don't also get hurt 

the gunsmith next town over a few years back had 2 rifles with damage both 22lr , they suspect that they had a squib load then fired a full power load 

always check if it doesn't sound like a proper normal report 

with autos on a failure to fire a tap rack is a common drill , but if you are not in a fire fight do the tap rack , but then stop and drop the mag , and eject the cartridge , check the barrel if you can see it is clear continue 

a co worker has had one of these rounds with out powder , if a bullet gets stuck in the barrel and a tap rack is run , and a mess follows , some guns the chambers cut so that if pressure spikes high enough that the brass fails and vents the pressure down the mag well causing quite a scare and others are not so lucky.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> *Had it been a bolt action*, the force would quite probably have pulverized the blockage by the* compressed air* and Ed would have seen only a cloud of dust.


Not really, since the* air pressure* would have peaked *before* the action opened.

Any "compressed air" acting on the blockage would only be the air *between* the bullet and the obstruction

It wouldn't have *more* pressure in one action vs the other


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Not really, since the* air pressure* would have peaked *before* the action opened.


Action would not be opened in a bolt action.



> Any "compressed air" acting on the blockage would only be the air *between* the bullet and the obstruction


Yep! That compressed air is capable of removing any loose or dry plug such as a wasp nest would be. Frozen or wet would be another situation completely and does not apply here.



> It wouldn't have *more* pressure in one action vs the other


Definitely did in this case!

Martin


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Action would not be opened in a bolt action.


Nor in the semi until AFTER the pressure was dropping, and the bullet (in this instance) had *already stopped.*



> Yep! That *compressed air is capable of removing any loose or dry plug *such as a wasp nest would be. Frozen or wet would be another situation completely and *does not apply here*.


If the bullet moved to within 8 inches of the muzzle, compressed air DOES "apply", and may have even blown the obstruction out, since that wasn't stated for certain, but WAS *implied.*

What was said leads me to think it WAS blown out *when the bullet hit it*, and then was stopped



> During that time a *think* a wasp built a mud nest in the barrel





> Now I have a nice 10-22 that has a lead plug in the barrel about *8" from the exit end* of the barrel


Subsequent bullets stacked behind the first


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## Paquebot (May 10, 2002)

Repeat, frozen or wet DOES NOT apply here if it were a wasp's doing. There would be a thin wall of dry mud, usually clay, followed by a brood chamber of insects to feed young after they hatch. There may be more than one such cell but each divided by only a thin wall of clay. A wire would easily have penetrated through the whole affair with little resistance. Firing a shot through that nest should have resulted in an explosion of dust and insect parts. 

That would NOT be the case in compacted wet or frozen soil. That is the bane of waterfowl hunters in cold weather who end up with wet or frozen mud in their shotguns. If the obstruction were dry dirt, chances are great that nothing bad will happen. If merely wet, the result is often not good since it may compact further under pressure. Of course, that depends upon how much muck and mud actually is involved. If that is then frozen, I'd say a 99% chance of something very unpleasant could happen.

I hunted **** for many years. Took a lot of headers and barrel ended up plugged. Never once worried about it since there is so little that can get into that .22 opening. Remington 550-1 was original but never was happy with the killing power. Even a chest shot might find the bullet not exiting. Bought a 581 and never again found a bullet in the carcass. And, it also dropped 14 or 15 deer! 

Martin


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> I hunted **** for many years. Took a lot of headers and barrel ended up plugged. Never once worried about it since there is so little that can get into that .22 opening. *Remington 550-1* was original but *never was happy with the killing power*.
> 
> Even a chest shot might find the bullet not exiting. Bought a* 581* and never again found a bullet in the carcass. And, it also dropped 14 or 15 deer!


There is NO appreciable *velocity difference* in the two types of actions.
Any difference in "killing power" or "bullets recovered" were due to other factors, or simply imagined


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