# Hay belly, good or bad?



## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

I have a small doe who will be 1 year old on the 5th of January. Supposedly she is a Saanen x Boer but looks more like a Saanen x pigmy. She always has a HUGE belly that does not go down. She eats/drinks/pees/poos/chews cud normally. Temp is 101.7 and its cold out there. Fluffy soft coat and normal looking feet that don't get overgrown very fast since copper bolus a month ago. Had the big belly before that. I have pictures if you need them.

Shes NOT bloated even though she looks it. 

She has NOT had a bout with cocci,

Doesn't have a worm overload, 

She could be pregnant but its doubtful,

She acts totally normal for a goat. She just has a HUGE belly on BOTH sides.

Do I need to be looking at other causes or is this totally normal and a good thing?


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

If she IS pygmy, they are great for looking bloated when they aren't.


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

This is a picture from a couple weeka ago. I will get a current one in the morning.


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## spiritrider (Nov 14, 2009)

A normally and well developed rumen should look rounded. I'd be concerned if she was thin.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

That's the Boer in her.  Some of them look like they've swallowed _two_ watermelons.


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## wintrrwolf (Sep 29, 2009)

Dang she looks worse than my buck did last night! Difference I think is I knew what he looked like normally so put out the baking soda. But if you have had her for awhile and thats what she has always looked like then it must be the Boer in her ...? My Saanen and pygmy doe's don't look that swollen either.


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

pookshollow said:


> That's the Boer in her.  Some of them look like they've swallowed _two_ watermelons.


That's actually a great description of what she looks like. When I went out to do the last check of the night it looked like someone aired her up.


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## garyh141 (Mar 7, 2008)

If she has any rumen issues, she will eat the baking soda on her own. My goats (nigerians) look like that but they are pregnant and the right side is as big as the left at times. IF she is bred, sometimes the babies push the rumen out more to the left and as they grow, then the right side expands to look like the left. At least it does with mine.
Sandra


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

wintrrwolf said:


> Dang she looks worse than my buck did last night! Difference I think is I knew what he looked like normally so put out the baking soda. But if you have had her for awhile and thats what she has always looked like then it must be the Boer in her ...? My Saanen and pygmy doe's don't look that swollen either.



Sometimes she is biger than this. She doesn't get grain and shes not fat. I guess the hay we get is just really good.


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

garyh141 said:


> If she has any rumen issues, she will eat the baking soda on her own. My goats (nigerians) look like that but they are pregnant and the right side is as big as the left at times. IF she is bred, sometimes the babies push the rumen out more to the left and as they grow, then the right side expands to look like the left. At least it does with mine.
> Sandra


She has baking soda if she wants it. The first time she looked like this I was stuffing BS balls down her throat. Didn't make a bit of difference and shes never had any issues with it. Its just normal for her.


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## pookshollow (Aug 22, 2005)

She looks normal to me. Her belly will go up and down as she competes in the "rumen-stuffing contest".  If she gets really huge, and feels tight as a drum - then you worry.


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## Beulah Gardens (Feb 26, 2008)

That's the Boer in her.


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## beccachow (Nov 8, 2008)

I don't know, my pygmy wether looks like he has two bowling balls in there!


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## jil101ca (Jul 2, 2007)

My Suzie is 75% Boer and is just about as wide as she is long,


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## Beulah Gardens (Feb 26, 2008)

This should make you feel better. LOL! she is prego but looks about the same when she is not.:baby04:


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

Ummm yup, that does make me feel better. Here I thought Dancer was HUGE, she's got nothin on your girl.


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## Briza (Aug 11, 2009)

This is just my opinion but I adore a huge belly and high rumen.
It says to me the goat has good gut capacity- probably no cocci scarring on intestine and was well fed as a kid to flex ribs and expand all parts of the many chambered stomachs. Their system is evolved to work off of huge amts of bulk and the more they can pack in the more they can get out of it! Love them big bellies. Not fat ya know- just full of good stuff cookin. We have dairy goats but I don't mind the boer watermelon look at night cuz in the morning the milk bucket will be overflowing.
B~


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## Tracy in Idaho (Dec 8, 2002)

LOL, she looks just fine to me!


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

Oh yeah she got lots of good foods when she was a baby. Shes actually a bottle baby we got at 3 days. She had hay and developer pellets in front of her from the beginning. We cut out the pellets a couple months ago as she seems like she was getting too fat. She now gets plain alfalfa pellets and hay. She can really pack the hay in though. Shes real healthy but I wish she would have taken after the Saanen instead of the Boer in her growth. Shes short and squatty instead of tall and sleek.


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## kitty (Dec 20, 2009)

She looks like she's fine to me -- just nice body depth.


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## jantoo1 (Mar 19, 2008)

I think she is probably just fine. ALL my pygmy`s look like they swallowed a bowling ball. It is the sign of a healthy rumen. As long as she is eating, drinking and being a goat she is fine. Maybe you might consider exercise for her. 

But, truly, pygmy`s DO have big bellies, and it is a good thing.. I call them balloon goats.. And usually one side is a bit bigger than the other.. That si normal.. So I wouldn`t worry unless she *doesn`t *eat or take water. Then there is a problem. Baking soda on hand at all times *is* good.

Relax, rest easy. she is fine.. Good luck and at our house we say Merry CHRISTmas to YOU and yours.. :goodjob:


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Fact is if your goats are getting a huge hay belly...

Your hay is of poor quality. Give them something with higher energy and they wont eat so much. They are eating and eating because they never feel satisfied.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

my saanen always looked like that!


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

stanb999 said:


> Fact is if your goats are getting a huge hay belly...
> 
> Your hay is of poor quality. Give them something with higher energy and they wont eat so much. They are eating and eating because they never feel satisfied.



HUH???

hey get Bermuda grass hay as that all I can get here. Alfalfa does not grow in this area. 

What would you suggest? without breaking the bank.


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## Beulah Gardens (Feb 26, 2008)

dragonchick, your goat looks fine. Boers are fat and dumpy they are not made to be lean and graceful like a dairy. They are a different type of goat totally, the coat, the build, the everything. Don't make me post more pictures, girl!  LOL! Honestly she looks normal. Does she get minerals?


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

dragonchick said:


> HUH???
> 
> hey get Bermuda grass hay as that all I can get here. Alfalfa does not grow in this area.
> 
> What would you suggest? without breaking the bank.




I'm sorry I didn't exactly answer your question. Hay belly IMHO is a good thing. Because it shows the amount of feed the goat can take in. But it's reason is as I said above.

As to your feed program. I need a bunch more info. 

What are you feeding, how much and when? If your feeding just hay it needs to be top quality goat hay and not horse hay. 

P.S. I'm not a goat "needs" alfalfa person.


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

Well lets see, they have all the Bermuda hay they want, oak chips( dried oak leaves ), a ginger snap cookie every now and then, cedar branches, and whatever grass they have growing in their pen. They also get honeysuckle when I go out and cut it down for them. Next summer the honeysuckle will be in the pen as its going to be enlarged. Even with the hard freezes we've had the stuff is still growing along with the grass. They get a loose cattle mineral that is gray in color with a high copper content, this is free choice. They were also copper bolused a month ago.

I don't feed grain/pellets unless bred over 90 days or its going to be super cold. Then they get alfalfa pellets or developer pellets and COB. Cob is only when super cold as corn is not really good for them.


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

dragonchick said:


> Well lets see, they have all the Bermuda hay they want, oak chips( dried oak leaves ), a ginger snap cookie every now and then, cedar branches, and whatever grass they have growing in their pen. They also get honeysuckle when I go out and cut it down for them. Next summer the honeysuckle will be in the pen as its going to be enlarged. Even with the hard freezes we've had the stuff is still growing along with the grass. They get a loose cattle mineral that is gray in color with a high copper content, this is free choice. They were also copper bolused a month ago.
> 
> I don't feed grain/pellets unless bred over 90 days or its going to be super cold. Then they get alfalfa pellets or developer pellets and COB. Cob is only when super cold as corn is not really good for them.


Looks like they have a bit of variety... Which is great.

One thing to consider is the quality of the hay. Are you baling it? If you are then I'm sure it's good. But if not it can be tricky to get good stuff. The other thing is sometimes it's false economy to buy really good hay and avoid grains. For instance this year due to it being very wet all haying season the "good" hay is very expensive. There is no great hay available local to me. The "ok" hay is the same price as always.. 2 bucks a bail. Now I can get really nice top shelf hay bails for 6 bucks a bail. But why?

I'm feeding the ok hay at 2 bucks and about 12 pounds of "feed" a day. Which is costing a total of about 4.00 or so for the same amount of "feed". This is for feeding 9 goats, 6 are pregnant does, 1 whether, and two bucks.
I figure the cost is about 40 cents a day per goat. 

For "Feed" they are getting a mix of Crack corn (12.5%),crimped oats(50%), Boss (25%) and alfalfa pellets(12.5%) 

50 pounds crack corn
50 pounds alfalfa
100 pounds of boss
200 pounds of crimped oats
Mixed at home here and stored in large plastic garbage cans. It lasts a little over a month for us. 

So I'd suggest you figure out the cheapest way to get the best bang for your buck. Great hay isn't always the best. 


P.S. The only time our goats aren't on 100% pasture is in the 5 months of winter. In fact we only started feeding them when the ground got snow covered a few weeks ago. They get no grain or hay in the "warm" months. So YMMV.


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## Briza (Aug 11, 2009)

Stan that is a tremendous percentage of BOSS. That certainly is not cheap and is very high fat. Corn is more bang for the buck there with only a little sacrifice in mineral content. Our best money is spent on the best hay we can find and gladly. Grain is not the way to make up for poor hay. You are asking for metabolic issues and permanent gut fat.

B~


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

Briza said:


> Stan that is a tremendous percentage of BOSS. That certainly is not cheap and is very high fat. Corn is more bang for the buck there with only a little sacrifice in mineral content. Our best money is spent on the best hay we can find and gladly. Grain is not the way to make up for poor hay. You are asking for metabolic issues and permanent gut fat.
> 
> B~



What's not cheap .... 40 cents a day? 12 bucks a month? 

The fat is needed for the DWC we have here. It's been that way since the first week of December. I wasn't suggesting it for other folks. It's what works here. I was suggesting that just hay isn't always the cheapest.

DWC= Damp Wet Cold, high temps in the teens and 100% humidity with snow everyday.  

P.S. Feed a goat just hay here = dead goat. I been down that road, ran it up the flag pole, and did the 21 gun salute. Five years ago I fed only good/great hay. So let's just say I learned a few things.


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## Briza (Aug 11, 2009)

Yes you do have cold to contend with and we all look at things from our individual vantage points but I was not suggesting NO grain. Just that with very large bodied dairy goats you have to bulk em out or skinny goats with no milk in the bucket! Our mix is similar to yours but with the addition of barley equal to oats and far less BOSS. Keep that cold stuff up there ok? We have green grass here. :clap:
B~


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

I do not bale the hay I get for the goats, but I do know who's fields it comes from. He sells to most of the places around this area. There is one other whom I know who grows hay and has bales the size I need. Most people say its "crappy" hay not fit for horses nor cattle because its full of weeds. Would this be a better choice?


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## Freeholder (Jun 19, 2004)

Depends on what the weeds are. As long as there isn't anything in there that's toxic to goats, it might actually be better for them, because for one thing, they like weeds, and for another thing, weeds can actually be more nutritious than grass OR alfalfa!

I like to feed BOSS to my pregnant does not because of the energy value (as someone correctly stated, corn is also high in energy), but because it's high in Vitamin E, a vitamin that is critical for reproduction. It's also good to feed it to your bucks starting a few weeks before breeding season.

Kathleen


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## stanb999 (Jan 30, 2005)

I second what BlueJuniperFarm said about "weedy" hay. 

Also, check to be sure it was fully dry. Weeds can take twice as long to dry fully. They should be green not black.


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## dragonchick (Oct 10, 2007)

I will ask to walk the fields and see what exactly is in it. I will also pick up a single bale to see if they will eat it. Even if its the best hay in the world, its a waste of money if I can only use it for bedding due to the waste.


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