# greed and prices



## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

I talked to a man who runs a local produce stand and asked for some pinto beans. He said his supplier has pulled every bean in stock to reserve for sale this fall because he "CAN DOUBLE HIS MONEY ON THEM."

So, the produce vendor is looking for other suppliers who aren't trying to profit from the drought.

This makes me angry. The supplier has beans NOW, but is purposely waiting for the fall prices to skyrocket so he can be greedy and double his price. It might backfire, though, as the produce vendor probably won't be doing business with him again.

Just something to think about.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

There actualy was an add in Craigslist asking why was hay so expensive, and that gas was the same price to produce it and do farmers want everyone to have to part with their animals.Well, one of our fields usally produces 20 large round bales of hay. In the drought it produced 3 bales. It still cost the same in fuel to produce those 3 bales,and the cost is spread out over the ammount one charges in the end. 
I do understand that taking what is in stock,just to jack up the price is a diffrent issue. I just thought others would like to know that some people out there are getting mad at Farmers and in many instances there is nothing we can do.


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## Forerunner (Mar 23, 2007)

Blaming won't fill the pantry.

Better explore other options.


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Why shouldn't he? It costs as much to grow a field of beans even if you only get a tenth as many, should we willingly take a loss to keep prices low?


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Sounds to me like the man with the beans made the right decision. Why do we always think that farmers should sell their product at a price we want them to charge. They have to stay in business. A small crop means they need more money. Farmers have grain storage on their farm sites so that they can sell at the best times possible instead of being at the mercy of the harvest glut and selling for very low prices just so that the elevators etc. make all of the money for little or no work.


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## Pam6 (Apr 9, 2009)

I call that smart business money management..... :shrug:


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Yep he would get rich fast selling his beans for say a dollar a pound and replacing his beans for his next sale at a dollar fifty a pound . Everyone should be in some sort of business one time . :cowboy:


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## janetn (Apr 26, 2012)

Pam6 said:


> I call that smart business money management..... :shrug:


Yep :goodjob: Nobody was willing to pay extra when prices were so low farmers lost money. Wonder how many people would like it if their paychecks were cut so that the consumer of their wares or skills could get them at what they deemed a good price.


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## elkhound (May 30, 2006)

get debt free and get out of the system as best you can.produce for yourself and live free....well as free as the powers let us.


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## anniew (Dec 12, 2002)

do you want capitalism or not?


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## Elizabeth (Jun 4, 2002)

Just to add, in a "good" year we can get three cuttings of hay from our fields. Well, we haven't had a "good" year for about 4-5 years here. We _hope_ that we will get a _second_ cutting this year.

In our case, all of our equipment is paid for so we have no loan payments, but many farmers do have loans and have to make their principal and interest payments whether they get 1, 2, 3, or no hay crops (or whatever other crops they are growing).

Having had a reduced income during the bad years, when there is a good year we need to maximize our income to the fullest extent possible in order to get through the next round of bad years.


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## Mutti (Sep 7, 2002)

Might point out that Americans have the lowest food costs in the world. We aren't used to spending 50% or more on food. Think about being in a poor country where the dollar you make for a days' work is all spent on food. Think about living where there isn't a food bank around the corner or food stamps to help feed your family. Even the poorest of Americans still have some backup.

Why shouldn't the farmer make an honest living? Considering that most Americans wouldn't dream of working as hard. We are a soft nation who expect to always have our full supermarket and cheap gas. The slow slide into poverty is coming as quite a shock to many people. Have you ever worked in a food bank where people actually complain about the FREE food they are receiving?


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Well I'm guilty!...I got a 50# bag of pintos at salvage for 40c a pound and I did not ask the man selling them to split the bag so someone else could get the same deal.....I just took the whole bag and will eat them until prices come down.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Mutti said:


> Might point out that Americans have the lowest food costs in the world. We aren't used to spending 50% or more on food. Think about being in a poor country where the dollar you make for a days' work is all spent on food. Think about living where there isn't a food bank around the corner or food stamps to help feed your family. Even the poorest of Americans still have some backup.
> 
> Why shouldn't the farmer make an honest living? Considering that most Americans wouldn't dream of working as hard. We are a soft nation who expect to always have our full supermarket and cheap gas. The slow slide into poverty is coming as quite a shock to many people. Have you ever worked in a food bank where people actually complain about the FREE food they are receiving?


Most won't take free dry pinto beans unless they are canned refried...they don't know how to cook them nor do they want to invest the time and effort.

The busiest week at the pantry is the week before foodstamps come out....and I've researched the $$ foodstamp allowances and it is double and triple the amount a working family has in their food budget. My budget is $200 a month....on welfare a family of 5 receives $700 roughly in stamp$$ and these people run short!?! at the end. Its insane.


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## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

I have NO problem with farmers trying to make ends meet. I understand all about farmers having it rough, and yes, they deserve to profit for their labors. The man I'm talking about is NOT a farmer. He's a middleman who buys from the farmers and sells to others, including my local produce vender, stores, etc. 

For me, this would be like having all the quilting supplies I need on hand for a quilt, but telling people I'm waiting for fabric prices to increase so I can charge them double.


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## Guest (Aug 9, 2012)

The guy at the produce stand will most likely get what he can when he can, even if it means working with his higher priced supplier. Not much sense in him sitting there with nothing to sell, is there?
He will pass the higher prices on to his customers that's all. And they will pay it, they do have to eat.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

Its no different than buying futures in the commodities market...or stocks in the stock market...grow as much of your own and do for yourself to avoid the middlemen (plural) mark ups...the packers, shippers, storage and retailers....they all take a cut and moreover they employ PEOPLE...

A job is a good thing.


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## ||Downhome|| (Jan 12, 2009)

I don't begrudge the guy.
The hay here has been short on yield this year.
My friend Sold the last of his second cutting for 7.00 a bale this year.
His customers are in a tizzy, most of them that is.
the gal that bought it, took the whole field and wants more.
He said last year he could not get more then a 1.50 a bale.

Its a balancing act though, sort of like rabbits and fox.
a increase in rabbits results in a increase in fox but by the time the fox catch up, the rabbits are in decline which directly results in the fox declining. then the cycle starts over. Same with all markets.
If you price your customers out of the market, you then set yourself up for surplus, simple supply and demand. the lower prices may encourage others to re/enter animal keeping. but it will cycle again. like I said balancing act. 
regular loyal customers are very few in this world. Which makes it hard to show favor as a supplier. If I knew it was a one time shot,most certainly I would take as much as I can.
Most are only loyal to the dollar. But if I know its going to be study and regular, I would be more inclined to foster the relationship. Many folks do not think this way though.

I was getting feed from a farmer next county over. He had a fair price and good product.
then he jacked it through the roof. So much so It was no longer in my better interest to buy from him. I can go half the distance and pay less. I don't begrudge him for making as much as he can but think him foolish. Basically hes running a feed mill on farm, I know he has invested in equipment and labor,he is avoiding other expenses and getting top dollar in return. he could still turn a nice profit at a lower price and have all the customers he wanted. I think he sells a lot less now. 

Any way you cut it always going to be six of one and a half dozen of the other.


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

Becka said:


> I have NO problem with farmers trying to make ends meet. I understand all about farmers having it rough, and yes, they deserve to profit for their labors. The man I'm talking about is NOT a farmer. He's a middleman who buys from the farmers and sells to others, including my local produce vender, stores, etc.
> 
> For me, this would be like having all the quilting supplies I need on hand for a quilt, but telling people I'm waiting for fabric prices to increase so I can charge them double.


Thing is if the cotton crop is a total loss and you make and sell your quilt and it takes more to just replace your supply's than you got for it , you would been just as well off pounding sand in a rat hole :cowboy:


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## lemonthyme7 (Jul 8, 2010)

Farming is basically a gamble. My brother contracted 10,000 bushels of his corn at the beginning of the season. Now, of course with so many areas in drought he probably could get a much better price per bushel but that is not something you can know at the beginning of the season. It could have just as easily been a great year for corn and he would have made out because he contracted for $7 a bushel ahead of the harvest. We are lucky enough to be in an area where the corn and soybeans are doing well so he should be able to do pretty good on his uncontracted crops. Of course he is not going to get rich off of any of this. He put in a corn dryer a couple of years ago so has payments on that - maybe this year he will show profit on his tax return after all the deductions.


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

lemonthyme7 said:


> Farming is basically a gamble. My brother contracted 10,000 bushels of his corn at the beginning of the season. Now, of course with so many areas in drought he probably could get a much better price per bushel but that is not something you can know at the beginning of the season. It could have just as easily been a great year for corn and he would have made out because he contracted for $7 a bushel ahead of the harvest. We are lucky enough to be in an area where the corn and soybeans are doing well so he should be able to do pretty good on his uncontracted crops. Of course he is not going to get rich off of any of this. He put in a corn dryer a couple of years ago so has payments on that - maybe this year he will show profit on his tax return after all the deductions.


It sure is. I've got over 75 chickens out there, and am woundering If I should sell them(eggers) before everyone realises how the price of corn is going up. Or if I should keep them,pay for the feed myself and butcher them for me.My chick guy say my French Black Copper Marans are going for 50. a pair right now.I have 50, was raising them for the egg market-now????


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## emdeengee (Apr 20, 2010)

That is free enterprise and capitalism. There is no moral or legal obligation on the part of the seller that prevents him from holding on to his goods to sell when it suits him or when he thinks it would be more profitable. What controls prices is competition and the fact that people have good memories. He may make more money now by his actions but if his competitors undercut him by even a little or when there is once again adequate product people will remember and take their business elsewhere. 

And of course the man who runs the produce stand may be setting you up. He may be the one who intends to profit. Blames the supplier so that when he raises the price no one blames him.


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Higher prices are a form of rationing, or would you rather that the government done it.


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## uhcrandy (Sep 16, 2010)

Price is the point that, supply meets demand. More demand= higher price. Less demand = lower price. Supply work the same way.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

mpillow said:


> Most won't take free dry pinto beans unless they are canned refried...they don't know how to cook them nor do they want to invest the time and effort.
> 
> The busiest week at the pantry is the week before foodstamps come out....and I've researched the $$ foodstamp allowances and it is double and triple the amount a working family has in their food budget. My budget is $200 a month....on welfare a family of 5 receives $700 roughly in stamp$$ and these people run short!?! at the end. Its insane.


Prime meat has soared, and the FS' just don't goes as far. (Buy steak/lobster, sell for smokes, dope, drinks... the oldest fs scam)

Supply and demand will take care of it.... last summer, there was little to no hay cut locally.... a 20$ roll was suddenly worth 100$... you 'could' drive half a day and get hay for a little more than 20.... but spend hundreds in fuel, by the time it got back here it was 3x or 4x what it should've cost locally.

Dr. Walter Williams (columnist) had an excellent article a few years back about price gouging in emergencies, greed, and whatnot. His premise was immediately higher prices discouraged people from scooping up all the normally easily available goods at the old prices, and by having them high, forcing the consumer to buy only what they needed, and with high prices, everyone would have access... (or something like that).


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## hintonlady (Apr 22, 2007)

If you don't like the way the free market operates grow your own. Simple as that.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2012)

Mutti said:


> Have you ever worked in a food bank where people actually complain about the FREE food they are receiving?


Having done a very great deal of volunteer work, I have run into that over and over and over.

I have NEVER complained when I've been on the receiving end.


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## lmrose (Sep 24, 2009)

My husband got out of dairy farming in his thirties because he was tired of working 7 days a week for low pay and no benefits. Years later we raised and sold organic vegetables on our present farm. We were nickel and dimed to death by customers who thought our crops should be cheaper than at the store because " they just grew on their own with no middle man to profit"! So after 20 years of working hard while the neighbors enjoyed their summer vacations we quit selling vegetables. Now Bill teaches people how to garden if they are interested in knowing.We just grow a smaller garden for ourselves now and to share with others.

Farmers will never be rich. Most work seven days a week and don't calculate their time. They don't make minimum wage and most carry debt. Middle men may gouge prices but that is called free enterprise. Does anyone really want government controlling more of what we do? In Canada many commodities are already controlled by government marketing boards. There is already too much government. That is why we chose ro farm small to avoid all the red tape connected to big farms.

We believe in people doing whatever they can to help themselves in their particular circumstances. We also believe in helping those who can't help themselves for physical or mental reasons. As for those middle men or anyone else who gouge prices when the country is suffering from drought and profit at the expense of others; when their hordes of beans or what ever are gone they will be without like everyone else. The money they got won't feed them if there is no food to buy.


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## unregistered168043 (Sep 9, 2011)

Its called business. Nothing new going on here its what makes the world go 'round and has been going on for thousands of years. I do agree that I might prefer a vendor who didn't use these techniques but he'd probably be out of business.


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## WV Farm girl (Nov 26, 2011)

I can see both sides. Being a daughter, granddaughter and great granddaughter of farmers I am aware and appreciate the hard work they do and believe they need compensated. However it is the middle man who usually profits. 
Few people realize but when Richmond fell during the American Civil War southerners were having to pay well over $100 for a barrell of flour. Most people at the time and even today thought there was a shortage. Fact is there was flour in storage being held by speculators and off the market while they waited and hoped that prices would climb even higher!
Lesson? Greed is the same today as then. "Shortages" can be created to drive prices and the farmer will not be the one to benefit.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Diamond market is the same thing--there is no shortage--they keep the supply limited to drive up the price. If they weren't controling how much hits the market they would be cheaper than glass.


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2012)

cvk said:


> Diamond market is the same thing--there is no shortage--they keep the supply limited to drive up the price.


100% correct!


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## where I want to (Oct 28, 2008)

lmrose said:


> Farmers will never be rich.


You might be surprised. Depends on the farmer, the location and the times.
I worked at a place where I had to review complete tax returns for older individuals in an area with a lot of farmers. 
They might have worn overalls but some of them were darn rich with multi-million dollar business. And they were not "corporate farm"ers. You just couldn't tell by looking how well they were doing.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

mpillow said:


> Well I'm guilty!...I got a 50# bag of pintos at salvage for 40c a pound and I did not ask the man selling them to split the bag so someone else could get the same deal.....I just took the whole bag and will eat them until prices come down.


As far as Im concerned...you were the one smart enough to seek out the salvage store, and find the deal. Enjoy. Others walked past that...you would not believe the people I know, my own mom included, who would say "I dont need that many, that will take us a year to eat that :umno:
not thinking that if they buy a pound this week, make some chili, next time they want baked beans or chili they will need to buy more. 
just thinking...take that all back. Other than you folks, Im the only person I know that bothers with dry beans.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Speculators can get burned too.... One of my relatives best friends was a trapper, that decided to get into the 'real money', and quit trapping, and just buy pelts and sell to the wholesalers. He bought a walk in cooler and had several thousand pelts, and the market went from 40$ each to next to nothing, overnight. Believe it was bobcat or some other spotted animal... federal regs were added and he just 'ate' a huge loss. BTW, he no longer speculates.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

where I want to said:


> You might be surprised. Depends on the farmer, the location and the times.
> I worked at a place where I had to review complete tax returns for older individuals in an area with a lot of farmers.
> They might have worn overalls but some of them were darn rich with multi-million dollar business. And they were not "corporate farm"ers. You just couldn't tell by looking how well they were doing.


I know several farmers and they have a job, several have 2, besides farming.


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## Soupmaker (Apr 28, 2012)

Becka said:


> I have NO problem with farmers trying to make ends meet. I understand all about farmers having it rough, and yes, they deserve to profit for their labors. The man I'm talking about is NOT a farmer. He's a middleman who buys from the farmers and sells to others, including my local produce vender, stores, etc.
> 
> For me, this would be like having all the quilting supplies I need on hand for a quilt, but telling people I'm waiting for fabric prices to increase so I can charge them double.


Makes me wonder why you are 4 stepping the purchase of a basic commodity.

If you don't like the price or terms of sale pintos are really easy to grow.


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## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

Soupmaker said:


> Makes me wonder why you are 4 stepping the purchase of a basic commodity.
> 
> If you don't like the price or terms of sale pintos are really easy to grow.


:umno: Because I have disabilities and am unable to do so! 

Honestly, not all of us here are "Rambo" people, young, healthy, strong, with all the physical strength to "grow our own" as some here have suggested. Some of us are trying to make do with what we have, the best we can.

If you can "grow your own" that's GREAT and this thread must not apply to you. I posted this as a heads up for those who don't/can't and must find other ways to get food. I did NOT post this thread to degrade capitalism, farmers, or anything else. Sorry if that's the way it read to some of you.

Seems like the tone on this forum gets more and more snarky every day. What's wrong, people? Is the economy turning us into snide, unkind people?


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Becka, I understand what you are saying. We've seen prices on fuel go up when a disaster hits. They are not allowed to raise the price on the fuel the station has already in it's underground tanks. They will get fined ,it's called "price gouging".


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## Sawmill Jim (Dec 5, 2008)

7thswan said:


> Becka, I understand what you are saying. We've seen prices on fuel go up when a disaster hits. They are not allowed to raise the price on the fuel the station has already in it's underground tanks. They will get fined ,it's called "price gouging".


Think you might re think that . If they sold gas at $3.50 knowing their next delivery was going to cost them $3.75 they would all close . This is why when you see the price change while driving around town .No business can sell for less than their replacement cost long . Not many independent gas stations left the big Co's change prices as the market changes they pay the stores owners a per gallon fee for despincing their fuel .


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## Soupmaker (Apr 28, 2012)

Becka said:


> Seems like the tone on this forum gets more and more snarky every day. What's wrong, people? Is the economy turning us into snide, unkind people?


That's odd because that is exactly how I took your OP.:shrug:

Sorry. My bad on the disabilities.


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## mpillow (Jan 24, 2003)

I have purchased a few cases from here along the way...the price has gone up $10 a case in 5 yrs BTW

Pinto Beans - LDS Online Store
free shipping in lower48


Pintos dont grow well in maine...too short a season and too humid....


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Well, I don't remember if I got snarky or not---didn't mean to but I also get irritated when I see the enormous prices charged at things like Farmer's markets even though I believe they have the right to raise prices etc. We don't have to buy if we don't like the price but when I go there and see eggs for $4 per dozen it is just insane. I have chickens, I know what it costs to produce eggs. For that matter I also have an idea what they would get if they sold their eggs wholesale instead of marketing them themselves. On the other hand--I had looked into the price of selling at the Farmers market and it was $65 per summer. So you can't tell me they HAVE to charge those kinds of prices to survive. Call it what it is--Greed. I remember them and they never get my busines. When I had goats I sold my goat milk to cancer patients for the cost of regular milk in the store because I had to buy all my feed. My neighbors were charging $8 per gallon for it at the time for sick babies that couldn't drink cows milk when regular milk was about $1.89 in the store. That is insane and I don't like people taking unfair advantage of a NEED. Then again it is their right to do it if that is what they want to do. I just remember them for what they are and walk on by. We are in a tourist town---every price reflects the greed of needing to fleece them while they are here in the summer--problem is that permanent residents have to pay the same prices. Guess, it is just the nature of the beast.


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## Soupmaker (Apr 28, 2012)

cvk said:


> Well, I don't remember if I got snarky or not---didn't mean to but I also get irritated when I see the enormous prices charged at things like Farmer's markets even though I believe they have the right to raise prices etc. We don't have to buy if we don't like the price but when I go there and see eggs for $4 per dozen it is just insane. I have chickens, I know what it costs to produce eggs. For that matter I also have an idea what they would get if they sold their eggs wholesale instead of marketing them themselves. On the other hand--I had looked into the price of selling at the Farmers market and it was $65 per summer. So you can't tell me they HAVE to charge those kinds of prices to survive. Call it what it is--Greed. I remember them and they never get my busines. When I had goats I sold my goat milk to cancer patients for the cost of regular milk in the store because I had to buy all my feed. My neighbors were charging $8 per gallon for it at the time for sick babies that couldn't drink cows milk when regular milk was about $1.89 in the store. That is insane and I don't like people taking unfair advantage of a NEED. Then again it is their right to do it if that is what they want to do. I just remember them for what they are and walk on by. We are in a tourist town---every price reflects the greed of needing to fleece them while they are here in the summer--problem is that permanent residents have to pay the same prices. Guess, it is just the nature of the beast.


Charging $4 for eggs at the farmers market is not GREED.

What they could get for them wholesale is a moot point.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Neither is $8 goat milk if somebody is willing to pay the price. That is how people make money. On the other hand I have to admit that I take great pleasure in watching them have to feed it to their cats. And the man that charges $12 for a dozen ears of corn and also sells to all the local groc. stores for 15 cents a cob--he can take them home with him and put them in his compost pile. They can price at any price they choose but nobody has to buy any of it.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Why is corn considered over priced at $7.67 per bu ? If it is okay to pay inflated prices at Farmers Markets? That is the real question. We are all looking to get the best prices for what we sell but cry about the prices when we are buying.


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## Soupmaker (Apr 28, 2012)

cvk said:


> Why is corn considered over priced at $7.67 per bu ? If it is okay to pay inflated prices at Farmers Markets? That is the real question. We are all looking to get the best prices for what we sell but cry about the prices when we are buying.


I don't think $8 corn is overpriced.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Actually, $8 corn is still way cheaper than wheat or soybeans. It isn't the only source of sweetners or oil even if it does tend to be in everything we use or eat these days. People getting paid that price for corn are tickled pink and everybody else is crying.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Becka said:


> :umno: Because I have disabilities and am unable to do so!


Please Becka, dont explain yourself to people you dont know. Momma always said, your wont have to explain yourself to your friends, and they are the ones that matter  I wanted to post the same thing to MPillow when she explained why she was buying food from amazon someone didnt approve of. 
Jeez, this isnt the organic food board, or the lets boycott store bought beans in favor of growing your own board, its a survival and preparedness board. What I took from the OP was there apparently might be a shortage of pintos, and being we are all preparing for our own needs, it might be wise to shop around, and stock up on some more pintos, there might be price gouging in our near future. Beans are probably the #1 best storage item.
I hope you have a great day AND I hope you find a great deal on beans


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## 7thswan (Nov 18, 2008)

Sawmill Jim said:


> Think you might re think that . If they sold gas at $3.50 knowing their next delivery was going to cost them $3.75 they would all close . This is why when you see the price change while driving around town .No business can sell for less than their replacement cost long . Not many independent gas stations left the big Co's change prices as the market changes they pay the stores owners a per gallon fee for despincing their fuel .


Maybe I'm not clear, and that wouldn't be a surprise. While back we were out of electricity for 10 days(maybe 1996). The beginning of the situation,people were lined up buying fuel. The stations would run out and the next station would jack up their prices-because they could,since who knew when the supply would be replenished. The Governor came out and told the Stations that they could not raise their prices over what they were originally getting. Anyone that had-got fined and their customers got their $ back(if they could prove the purchase).


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Its interesting how gas shortages at the pump occur. My cousin owns several small gas stations and a couple larger truck stops on the Interstate in Iowa and Missouri. He explained that he's allowed so many dollars to per purchase from his jobber based on some sort of calculation related to past purchases and dollar guarantees. If prices go high then he can buy less with the allowed amount which results in no fuel available at his stations before he can buy again.

I usually harvest at least a gallon of dried pinto beans from my garden. This year I will not have any. It was too hot and dry for the blooms to set so the vines are now drying down without a single bean on them. They are still blooming but its too late in the year for those to mature before frost. If a farmer in this area was growing pinto beans then there will be no harvest.

Farmers usually contract their crop in advance so the $8.29 at the ethonol plant this week will not be what farmers will be getting when they deliver this fall's crop. I'm also wondering if the ethonol plant will sue the farmers when they cannot deliver the amount of grain contracted due to the drought. 

Food stamp fraud is widespread. My grandson has 5 step children 4 of whom live with their father. Father gets FIP and food stamps for all 5. Last month father sold food stamps to get money to pay utilities and asked grandson for money for food. Grandson told him if the kids lived in his house he'd feed them but since they live with father its his responsibility. Grandson was outraged that a father would sell food stamps rather than feed his children no matter what bills were due.

I think there is a difference between smart business practices and price gouging. However, I'm never sure exactly where the line should be drawn.


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## julieq (Oct 12, 2008)

I don't want to get flamed for derailing this heated debate, but ARE bean prices going to double by this fall?!


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

It makes sense to me, based on the drought over most of the USA heartland, I would expect prices to go up for beans, corn, lots of stuff...eventually it will trickle down to meats, as the grains fed to the animals are crops lost in the drought. stock up while you can.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Washington state raises alot of beans, lentils and wheat. They have no drought and have big crops. However, if there are shortages for other foods then people could start eating more beans and drive up the prices. I bought several pounds of lentils and will buy more so that I can use them to make bean sprouts if I am short green veggies.


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## bourbonred (Feb 27, 2008)

I didn't respond to the OP, but my first thought was, "Here's another person who doesn't understand capitalism". It may well be that I misunderstood, but there are a lot of people who think getting top money for your product is greed. Capitalism has changed the world and decreased poverty. It should be protected and guarded.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

cvk said:


> Washington state raises alot of beans, lentils and wheat. They have no drought and have big crops. However, if there are shortages for other foods then people could start eating more beans and drive up the prices. I bought several pounds of lentils and will buy more so that I can use them to make bean sprouts if I am short green veggies.


where do you live in WA. State. You may want to look into North West pea and bean in Spokane. You can buy straight from the silo.


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## Becka (Mar 15, 2008)

cvk said:


> Washington state raises alot of beans, lentils and wheat. They have no drought and have big crops. However, if there are shortages for other foods then people could start eating more beans and drive up the prices. I bought several pounds of lentils and will buy more so that I can use them to make bean sprouts if I am short green veggies.


Thing is, Washington state could have a great crop, but by the time they truck all that to the east coast, prices will skyrocket due to the gas prices.

I'm buying local as much as possible--that should help boost my local economy AND save in shipping costs passed on to the consumers. 

(By the way, lentils have gone up 20% at my grocery store.)


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

julieq said:


> I don't want to get flamed for derailing this heated debate, but ARE bean prices going to double by this fall?!


The same 50 pound bags of pintos that were $20 last summer are $32 now at the Cash and Carry. Add what the drought is going to do to them and it's going to get pretty darn expensive.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

I don't live in WA anymore. I lived there for many many years and have friends and family still there. I don't need any beans. Right now I am buying fresh lentils so that I am sure that they will sprout. The whole green peas will also sprout by the way. Both are $1.08 per pound at Walmart right now and a couple pounds make a big bunch of sprouts.


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## cvk (Oct 30, 2006)

Thanks for the info on where to buy in Spokane. I have a friend that lives there.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

beaglebiz said:


> Others walked past that...you would not believe the people I know, my own mom included, who would say "I dont need that many, that will take us a year to eat that :umno:
> not thinking that if they buy a pound this week, make some chili, next time they want baked beans or chili they will need to buy more.


I hear those types of things all the time too. There was a sale on pasta at .59 a pound for all sorts of spaghetti, rigatoni, penne, etc, a few weeks ago. I bought dozens and dozens of the pound boxes. It keeps forever. And I had three separate people comment on how much I had in my cart or at the checkout.
I don't understand their reasoning. Isn't it better to clear the shelves at that price rather than buying it once a week when it is back up to almost two dollars a pound? I mean, it won't go bad. It can sit on my pantry shelf for three years if it takes that long to use it all up, and still be fine. I just don't understand people's thought process when they pass up things like that.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

SEVEN Billion humans, and dwindling food and fuel resources........Things are going to get real ugly. This is why China is buying ALL of Africa that it can buy......Food. 

If humans don't like the price now when food can be had for some price......Just think how unhappy they will be when there is no food at any price.

Old Sourdough saying: "One day eat Eagle next day eat Eagle feathers".


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Ann-NWIowa said:


> Food stamp fraud is widespread.
> 
> I think there is a difference between smart business practices and price gouging. However, I'm never sure exactly where the line should be drawn.


I kind of believe that foodstamps are more to profit big ag (not farmers, but big ag) rather than to help the little guy. If it were really to just feed the poor then there would be some limits on how they are spent like no soda, no chips and empty calorie foods, etc. 

I understand you comment about the line between free market and price gouging. I really don't see how gas should be as high as it is right now. Is it price gouging by the oil companies? IMO probably yes.


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## mekasmom (Jan 19, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> SEVEN Billion humans, and dwindling food and fuel resources........Things are going to get real ugly.


I believe when God made the world He was smart enough to provide enough food for all that would live on it. The problem is with getting the food to the people in need. And greed stops a lot of that. Even if we send food to the needy, how much of it actually gets to the ones who need it? And how much is gobbled up by the greedy who just want to profit?


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## gracie88 (May 29, 2007)

> This makes me angry. The supplier has beans NOW, but is purposely waiting for the fall prices to skyrocket so he can be greedy and double his price.


Don't be angry, they're his beans. Just buy somewhere/something else.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

cvk said:


> I don't live in WA anymore. I lived there for many many years and have friends and family still there. I don't need any beans. Right now I am buying fresh lentils so that I am sure that they will sprout. The whole green peas will also sprout by the way. Both are $1.08 per pound at Walmart right now and a couple pounds make a big bunch of sprouts.


i can't get the whole peas to sprout with out sliming out, so we grow them in small pots in the winter, for greens. We've also grew them in the garden and harvest them for fresh peas. As well as using them for rabbit feed.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2012)

mekasmom said:


> I believe when God made the world He was smart enough to provide enough food for all that would live on it. The problem is with getting the food to the people in need. And greed stops a lot of that. Even if we send food to the needy, how much of it actually gets to the ones who need it? And how much is gobbled up by the greedy who just want to profit?


People need to take control ot their food back into their own hands. Including cutting out the middle man. If they won't do this they need to quit complaining.


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## Sourdough (Dec 28, 2011)

mekasmom said:


> I believe when God made the world He was smart enough to provide enough food for all that would live on it. The problem is with getting the food to the people in need. And greed stops a lot of that. Even if we send food to the needy, how much of it actually gets to the ones who need it? And how much is gobbled up by the greedy who just want to profit?


God also said "GLUTTONY was a Sin" (America has a lot of FAT Sinners).


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## DaleK (Sep 23, 2004)

Threads like this just remind me how spoiled North Americans are to only spend 9-10% of their income on food, and to complain when prices start cutting in to the 90% "necessities"


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## Common Tator (Feb 19, 2008)

We have a You-Pick apple orchard. We opened for three years in a row, and I charged the same rice all three years. Then two years where we lost our crop and had no income at all for the year from our orchard. Now when we open this year, we will increase our prices. I wonder if people will call me greedy? Our prices will still be a little lower than most of the grocery store apples, and you never know how old those apples are. 

We are one of the few apple orchards n Southern California. The next nearest is nearly an hour away.

That income from the apples only covers a portion of our actual costs. We still pay most of it from hubby's income from his job.

But I have had people complain about me "gouging". Unbelievable.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

Soupmaker said:


> Makes me wonder why you are 4 stepping the purchase of a basic commodity.
> 
> If you don't like the price or terms of sale pintos are really easy to grow.


Calculus for growing pintos doesn't compute, with me at least. I can buy a 20lb bag of dry beans for less than 30 minutes of 'paid work'.... or spend several days cumulative hard work, a lot of money (many multiples of the 20lb bag) on seed and fertilizer and fuel... and still possibly lose it all to the omniscient drought, bugs, and deer.

If the 'end' came, I'd have to grow em instead of buying em... but then, I'd have endless time to do so...


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## wally (Oct 9, 2007)

lets see, I have a product that you want or need..You dont like my price and will not pay it..Excuse me the guy behind you would like to buy it.. oh have a nice day.


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## Soupmaker (Apr 28, 2012)

texican said:


> Calculus for growing pintos doesn't compute, with me at least. I can buy a 20lb bag of dry beans for less than 30 minutes of 'paid work'.... or spend several days cumulative hard work, a lot of money (many multiples of the 20lb bag) on seed and fertilizer and fuel... and still possibly lose it all to the omniscient drought, bugs, and deer.
> 
> If the 'end' came, I'd have to grow em instead of buying em... but then, I'd have endless time to do so...


But your not the one belly aching about the price or availability.

Your also _way_ over estimating the needs to grow pintos.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

I bought a packet of pinto bean seed 15 years (or longer ago). Each year I plant seed saved from the previous year. These are climbing beans so I plant on two cattle panels. I do not do anything other than weed until late fall when the beans dry down then I pick daily because when the pods are totally dry they pop open spewing the beans. Since I want the beans I pick before they reach the spewing stage. Usual harvest from two cattle panels is 1 gallon to 1Â½ gallons of dried beans. I don't have a deer problem and pests don't seem to bother much as they prefer the more tender green beans. However, this year the combination of heat and drought means my harvest is zero so I'm thankful beans are available commercially. Its good to know what a row of beans produces in an average year so I know what I need to do to double or triple my harvest. In 15 plus years this is my first crop failure.


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## beaglebiz (Aug 5, 2008)

Soupmaker said:


> But your not the one belly aching about the price or availability.
> 
> Your also _way_ over estimating the needs to grow pintos.


No one bellyached about price or availability. We were having a discussion. AND I do believe there is a slim chance Texican knows exactly what his needs are. Keep up this attitude and you are likely to be playing in the sandbox alone.


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## Soupmaker (Apr 28, 2012)

beaglebiz said:


> No one bellyached about price or availability. We were having a discussion.


The OP was/is.


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## AngieM2 (May 10, 2002)

Becka said:


> :umno:
> 
> Seems like the tone on this forum gets more and more snarky every day. What's wrong, people? Is the economy turning us into snide, unkind people?


Becla = I've not been reading closely that last day or two, BUT you are quite right on the snarky factor.

So. let me let the new ones being confrontational and snarky - you've chosen the wrong forum for that. It will be deleted, and if continued it will be stopped.

This is to be a more civil forum, and less confrontational. Not arguments, conversations.

I have to remind some as we get some new posters that think they are on other types of forums. So, not in your face, not confrontational, yes to discussions.

Remember the main rule of the whole HT site is "be nice" and I push being civil (which falls under "be nice" )

Angie


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

AnnNW Iowa. I am one of those guys who has a contract to deliver corn, at $5.50/bushel, and will not be able to deliver. This what will happen. On my 1000 bu contract if I only deliver 500. I will have to buy out the remains of the contract. eg 500 bu at going price that day say $8.00 plus 15 cents carry charge minus the $5.50 they were to pay me so I will pay them 8.15-5.50=2.65x500=$1325. Yep I got caught. Luckily this corn is coming from fields I rent out on shares so I actually have no expenses except the taxes and mortgage payments. Last year my share was over 2000 bushel. The difference in income will be over $10,000 for me. Time to pull the belt a little tighter. This is on 50 acres, a drop in the bucket compared to most corn farmers. Oh, they will get sued if they do not honor the contract one way or the other and rightfully so. Most elevators forward sell the corn the same day they write a buy contract with a farmer, so they will go through the same process if they can not deliver on their contract.


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## texican (Oct 4, 2003)

mekasmom said:


> I believe when God made the world He was smart enough to provide enough food for all that would live on it. The problem is with getting the food to the people in need. And greed stops a lot of that. Even if we send food to the needy, how much of it actually gets to the ones who need it? And how much is gobbled up by the greedy who just want to profit?


In the past, War, Disease, Pestilence, and Starvation took care of the overpopulation problem. Most humans think Nature's Law's no longer apply. They do, and the old saying, the larger they are, the harder they fall, I think is going to come back hard... when the system crashes...


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

bruce2288 said:


> AnnNW Iowa. I am one of those guys who has a contract to deliver corn, at $5.50/bushel, and will not be able to deliver. This what will happen. On my 1000 bu contract if I only deliver 500. I will have to buy out the remains of the contract. eg 500 bu at going price that day say $8.00 plus 15 cents carry charge minus the $5.50 they were to pay me so I will pay them 8.15-5.50=2.65x500=$1325. Yep I got caught. Luckily this corn is coming from fields I rent out on shares so I actually have no expenses except the taxes and mortgage payments. Last year my share was over 2000 bushel. The difference in income will be over $10,000 for me. Time to pull the belt a little tighter. This is on 50 acres, a drop in the bucket compared to most corn farmers. Oh, they will get sued if they do not honor the contract one way or the other and rightfully so. Most elevators forward sell the corn the same day they write a buy contract with a farmer, so they will go through the same process if they can not deliver on their contract.


Bruce:

I am hearing that some elevators are going to enforce delivery of contracts rather than allow buyouts. Fortunately the businesses I have contracted with are not doing that.

Jim


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## Becka03 (Mar 29, 2009)

AngieM2 said:


> Becla = I've not been reading closely that last day or two, BUT you are quite right on the snarky factor.
> 
> So. let me let the new ones being confrontational and snarky - you've chosen the wrong forum for that. It will be deleted, and if continued it will be stopped.
> 
> ...


I have noticed how danged rude most of the posters on here have gotten- honestly- it is glaring- you can not post anything with out gettin jumped on or told you are wrong blah blah- ughhhhhh oh well- you do a great job of moderating the *jerks* but ya can't catch'em all I suppose... and it is like life- there is always gonna be a few....


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## Allen W (Aug 2, 2008)

Lazy J said:


> Bruce:
> 
> I am hearing that some elevators are going to enforce delivery of contracts rather than allow buyouts. Fortunately the businesses I have contracted with are not doing that.
> 
> Jim


That would be very rough to have to do.


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## Ann-NWIowa (Sep 28, 2002)

Thanks for the explanation. I did wonder how that worked. I foresee a lot of Chapter 12 bankruptcies in the coming year. We dealt with a number of farmers and truckers when Vera Sun filed bankruptcy. In fact, the fallout from that is still around.


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## oregon woodsmok (Dec 19, 2010)

Incidentally, one thing to consider. It's not so much that prices are going up as it is that the purchase value of the dollar is falling falling falling.

That's not the farmers. That's your government. That's your inflation that the government is insisting is not happening.


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## bruce2288 (Jul 10, 2009)

Lazy J, I think that would make it tough in Indiana, from what I here about the crop there. Here, we have a lot of irrigation and I could directly buy from someone and have it delivered in my name. the elevators there could well be getting the squeeze from who ever they sold to.


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

I was at the feed store this morning. I just stopped to say hi and grab a soda, but while I was there a guy bought 2 bags of chicken scratch. $32! HOLY MOLEY! My girls better appreciate what scratch we have because I'm not paying $16 for a 50lb bag. I get up/go to bed early so I use the scratch to get them in the coop when I want them in for the night. They may just have to sleep with the coop door open when we run out.


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