# Six Actual Acts of Terrorism...



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

"What's the real threat to the U.S.? Here's a partial sampling of all the horrible things that have gone down while anyone turning on the news could hear someone arguing that Syrian refugees pose the biggest existential threat to public safety the country faces today."


http://mic.com/articles/129287/6-ac...F_aa1f6d282fad47d6bef7b48bfc6b53e7#.MCWY5j2oy


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Seems the liberal, progressive mindset is b/c we have so many murders here in the US, we might as well take the huge chance & bring in folks from countries that hate us, countries that produce terrorists by the "HUNDREDS". 

After all, if there's only a small % of those refuges who really aren't 'refuges' then we'll only get a few Boston Marathon incidents.

How many terrorists are we willing to let in? 1 in 5,000? 2? Maybe higher, b/c there's no way to vet these people.


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

charity without wisdom is an act of violence to self and others. 

Charity extended to Syrian refugees is an act of violence against true American citizens who need our heart felt charity. We can not even take care of or own people how can we take care of Syrian refugees as well.


----------



## mmoetc (Oct 9, 2012)

We could easily take care of own. We find many excuses not to and many reasons they aren't worthy of caring for.


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

==============


----------



## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Ya and propaganda at its best form the story tellers of lies.


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

ISIS has Syrian passports that they found when they overran at least one city. We don't know what happened with those. We know from Germany that refugees are being recruited. 

I have no issue with allowing Syrian refugees as long as they are vetted. That is the problem. In days gone by people went through Ellis Island or other places and went through processing. Simply allowing people in willy nilly is not good.

We're in the process of impoverishing people in Appalachia. People will lose their pensions. What about the Americans who lived and even served this country to preserve it for the rest of us? FWIW, the War on Poverty was a failure.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> "What's the real threat to the U.S.? Here's a partial sampling of all the horrible things that have gone down while anyone turning on the news could hear someone arguing that Syrian refugees pose the biggest existential threat to public safety the country faces today."
> 
> 
> http://mic.com/articles/129287/6-ac...F_aa1f6d282fad47d6bef7b48bfc6b53e7#.MCWY5j2oy



Maybe we would be doing the refugees a favor by not bringing them here, sounds like a real nasty place to live


----------



## Shine (Feb 19, 2011)

If our leaders and the movers and shakers were a bit more altruistic it would not be difficult at all for them to make reasonable profits all the while bringing everyone up the hill together. It is just that the people who are altruistic are becoming fewer and fewer...


----------



## greg273 (Aug 5, 2003)

City Bound said:


> charity without wisdom is an act of violence to self and others.
> 
> Charity extended to Syrian refugees is an act of violence against true American citizens who need our heart felt charity. We can not even take care of or own people how can we take care of Syrian refugees as well.


 'Take care of our own people'?? What do you mean? According to some on this forum, there is NO poverty in this country, ya know, because poor people have like refrigerators and a TV.


----------



## TripleD (Feb 12, 2011)

greg273 said:


> 'Take care of our own people'?? What do you mean? According to some on this forum, there is NO poverty in this country, ya know, because poor people have like refrigerators and a TV.


Do you think the solution is to bring more poor people here ?? You want to talk about average household income ? Are any of these people bringing their money when they come ?


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Take care of our own ? Is that like welfare ?


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

How about they stay where they are and IP can focus on her core competency?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

no really said:


> Maybe we would be doing the refugees a favor by not bringing them here, sounds like a real nasty place to live


:bow: :bow:


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

mmoetc said:


> We could easily take care of own. We find many excuses not to and many reasons they aren't worthy of caring for.


Food, housing, daycare, education and a phone ain't enough?


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Hers a thought on the Irving Texas "act of terror". They were exercising their right to openly carry long guns, they just chose to do it there! No one was hurt. The white supremacists are nothing more than street thugs like any other gang, the Connecticut shooting can be construed as a random act of violence, and the PP shooting was a psyco shooting people he despised. No terror just random acts of violence.


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Things like that happen daily in many countries not just here, so if we have issues with our own people why risk the potential for more?


----------



## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> "What's the real threat to the U.S.? Here's a partial sampling of all the horrible things that have gone down while anyone turning on the news could hear someone arguing that Syrian refugees pose the biggest existential threat to public safety the country faces today."
> 
> 
> http://mic.com/articles/129287/6-ac...F_aa1f6d282fad47d6bef7b48bfc6b53e7#.MCWY5j2oy


Quite a list, but they left a lot off, and added a few that are questionable.
Could have included this, but then your ridiculous hate site doesn't much care about victims so much as pushing an agenda.
http://capitalismmagazine.com/2013/11/dangerous-game-knockout-game-polar-bear-hunting/


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

oneraddad said:


> Take care of our own ? Is that like welfare ?


 I was not thinking of welfare but yes, if someone is going to get welfare let it be an American who needs it. The refugees will be getting welfare, foodstamps,and free houseing and those are resources real americans paid into and would be better served by. If society has to help someone get back on their feet let it help a member of it's own society not a stranger.

ESL resources in schools eat up school budget money that would better serve American students succeed in life. When I was in school it was not considered pc to exclude kids who could not speak English from mainstream classes and put them in their own resource rooms with special teachers. We all suffered in school because of that red tape, even the foreign speaking kids who never really got the help they needed. just one kid in a mainstream class who can not speak English makes it very hard for a teacher to teach and it slows the other students down, it also makes it hard for the foreign student to learn and integrate into American society.

yeah, welfare fraud is a bad thing as well as milking the system, but a lot of good hard working americans survive because of the help food stamps and welfare give them. Some use it as a hand out and some use it as a hand up.


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

A very lame article, a propaganda piece with very weak ammunition. We don't know enough about the Colorado incident yet. One of the other "examples" was calling protesters terrorists because they were armed. Really? Someone with an opinion and also exercising their rights is a terrorist now? One other incident was "firing at a mosque". Is it known that someone intentionally shot into that building, and not a drive-by, a misplaced celebratory shot fired in the air, etc?? 

Assumptions and innuendo and a remarkable lack of facts used in the piece. 

To sum it up, is that all ya got?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

MO_cows said:


> Food, housing, daycare, education and a phone ain't enough?


You forgot free healthcare


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

mmoetc said:


> We could easily take care of own. We find many excuses not to and many reasons they aren't worthy of caring for.


The homeless, vets, and other needy Americans have been a big issue for years... but they only became a problem to a certain faction since Obama said we'd take 10,000 Syrian refugees. 

Up until the certain faction were informed that the refugees were coming, hungry kids and adults didn't exist because of all the food programs available. There is whining nearly every day on one of the forums here that poor Americans get too many benefits as it is.

The "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality turns my stomach.


----------



## JeffreyD (Dec 27, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> The homeless, vets, and other needy Americans have been a big issue for years... but they only became a problem to a certain faction since Obama said we'd take 10,000 Syrian refugees.
> 
> Up until the certain faction were informed that the refugees were coming, hungry kids and adults didn't exist because of all the food programs available. There is whining nearly every day on one of the forums here that poor Americans get too many benefits as it is.
> 
> The "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality turns my stomach.


To bad, deal with it.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

JeffreyD said:


> To bad, deal with it.


A summation of the certain faction's mentality. Thank you for proving my point.


----------



## oneraddad (Jul 20, 2010)

Irish Pixie said:


> The "I got mine, to hell with everyone else" mentality turns my stomach.



You shouldn't let others get to you.

Nothing concerns me, except me and my family. Why get upset over stuff that's out of your control ?


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

oneraddad said:


> You shouldn't let others get to you.
> 
> Nothing concerns me, except me and my family. *Why get upset over stuff that's out of your control ?*


You're right, I know you're right, but it's not easy for me look at refugee kids and not see my own grand kids.


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Let me see if I got the facts in the OP right.
One terrorist bombing in Paris, over 130 dead.
*Six* "terrorist incidents" in America, *3* dead - that from one incident from a man we all can see doesn't have all his marbles.
But am I supposed to see some kind of mathematical equality in all of this?
Because I have to say, I didn't get that from the article.


----------



## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Let them come in and settle them in New York after all that is where they want to be. Some of them want to be in Washington DC to attack the framework of our society.


----------



## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

farmrbrown said:


> Let me see if I got the facts in the OP right.
> One terrorist bombing in Paris, over 130 dead.
> *Six* "terrorist incidents" in America, *3* dead - that from one incident from a man we all can see doesn't have all his marbles.
> But am I supposed to see some kind of mathematical equality in all of this?
> Because I have to say, I didn't get that from the article.


 And the more and more of TGHESE types that are allowed into the States the more and more chances WE ARE and WILL have a big problem in the future may be a heck of a lot sooner then SOME think or refuse to believe will happen. Heck they should be transported into a country CLOSE to where they LIVE NOT HERE.
Then when things get better they can go HOME much easier then form the US. 
This is the most ridiculous thing that this liberal progressive carp of folks are doing. And Doing to this once great country~!


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

farmrbrown said:


> Let me see if I got the facts in the OP right.
> One terrorist bombing in Paris, over 130 dead.
> *Six* "terrorist incidents" in America, *3* dead - that from one incident from a man we all can see doesn't have all his marbles.
> But am I supposed to see some kind of mathematical equality in all of this?
> Because I have to say, I didn't get that from the article.


 you forgot to add all the victims of 9/11, the boston marathon, the bus bombing in London, the multiple hotel attacks, Benghazi, the lone wolf attacks at military bases, the ax attack against a nyc police officer, the Charlie hebdo massacre, the soilder attacked and beheaded in broad daylight in the streets of engand, and on and on


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

greg273 said:


> 'Take care of our own people'?? What do you mean? According to some on this forum, there is NO poverty in this country, ya know, because poor people have like refrigerators and a TV.


I was thinking the same thing. I seem to remember a thread about feeding children here where we were politely informed everybody here is just fine and living high on the hog compared to other countries. 

I really want to meet these mythical people conservatives are so fond of like the illegal immigrant who both takes American jobs and is here just live on the dole. Or the poor person who is both not truly poor and living like a King and yet starving to death whenever we want to help anyone outside this country.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> "What's the real threat to the U.S.? Here's a partial sampling of all the horrible things that have gone down while anyone turning on the news could hear someone arguing that Syrian refugees pose the biggest existential threat to public safety the country faces today."
> 
> 
> http://mic.com/articles/129287/6-ac...F_aa1f6d282fad47d6bef7b48bfc6b53e7#.MCWY5j2oy


Good list. I just watched a story about all of the abortion doctors that have been shot and some killed. And then all the clinics that have been bombed or attacked. It was pretty disturbing. I knew there had been some but not so many.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Patchouli said:


> I was thinking the same thing. I seem to remember a thread about feeding children here where we were politely informed everybody here is just fine and living high on the hog compared to other countries.
> 
> I really want to meet these mythical people conservatives are so fond of like the illegal immigrant who both takes American jobs and is here just live on the dole. Or the poor person who is both not truly poor and living like a King and yet starving to death whenever we want to help anyone outside this country.


That was a thread I started: http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/sp...t/539024-summer-hungriest-time-some-kids.html

All of this is about a voluntary program run at food banks.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

City Bound said:


> you forgot to add all the victims of 9/11, the boston marathon, the bus bombing in London, the multiple hotel attacks, Benghazi, the lone wolf attacks at military bases, the ax attack against a nyc police officer, the Charlie hebdo massacre, the soilder attacked and beheaded in broad daylight in the streets of engand, and on and on


Maybe you could throw the kitchen sink in there, while you're at it. And if you could show that any one of those attacks involved a Middle Eastern refugee -- different from a terrorist, although apparently many have difficulty discerning the difference -- you might have a point. Otherwise, fully irrelevant.

Let me see if I can put this in a way you might understand.

All Native American Indians in this country can be referred to as Native American Indians.

All Muslims in the Middle East and elsewhere can be referred to as Muslims.

However...

If you meet a Cherokee Indian, he or she might become understandably angry with you if you insisted upon referring to him or her as Seminole, Apache or Navajo.

If you meet a Shia Muslim, he or she might become understandably angry with you if you insisted upon referring to him or her as Sunni, Kurd, or Yahudi.

There are many factions of Muslims. They are not all terrorists. In reality, very few of them are terrorists.

You and others need to learn to tell the difference and stop lumping them all together.

Learning the difference between a refugee and a terrorist is useful, too. Hint: The refugee is the one fleeing the terrorists.


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Raeven said:


> Maybe you could throw the kitchen sink in there, while you're at it. And if you could show that any one of those attacks involved a Middle Eastern refugee -- different from a terrorist, although apparently many have difficulty discerning the difference -- you might have a point. Otherwise, fully irrelevant.
> 
> Let me see if I can put this in a way you might understand.
> 
> ...


And a convenient way to sneak the bad ones in!


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

There's so much misinformation in this thread, it is depressing.

We have been bringing refugees in from the Middle East for... well, pretty much always. Since 2013, we have brought in over 88,000 of them.

Every refugee has been required to endure our 18 month to 2-3 year vetting process.

The vetting process includes in-depth review of each refugee by DHS, FBI, CIA, NSA, State Department and others. It includes but is far from limited to background checks, biometric data, review of papers and other processes that are classified -- for obvious, understandable reasons.

All refugees must register with the UN and stay in UN-maintained camps until their vetting process is completed.

No refugee may choose which country to which he or she wishes to migrate. They go where the UN tells them to go.

Refugees receive fare advanced for a plane ticket into the country with a requirement that they promise in writing to pay it back.

Refugees receive federal government assistance for 90 days only.

There is no documented case of which I am aware of any terrorist act committed or even planned by any refugee from the Middle East that has entered this country lawfully.

We have been asked to take 10,000 refugees in 2016. Other countries have taken millions.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> And a convenient way to sneak the bad ones in!


Hardly convenient. 

If you're truly worried about terrorists, worry about the ones that are already here. They would have come in by way of our visa waiver program with a fake Greek passport and virtually no background checks of any kind except the ESTA program, which appears to collect biographic data only. There is *no* delay in entering the United States in this manner. Twenty million people a year come through our country under this scheme.

*That* should keep you up nights.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Raeven said:


> There's so much misinformation in this thread, it is depressing.
> 
> We have been bringing refugees in from the Middle East for... well, pretty much always. Since 2013, we have brought in over 88,000 of them.
> 
> ...


Thank you for providing fact filled, well thought out posts. They are appreciated.


----------



## arabian knight (Dec 19, 2005)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> And a convenient way to sneak the bad ones in!


Yuppers just wait till something bad will happen and it will be sonnet then later i am afraid. This is a bad deal the uS will soon be nothing more then a 3rd world country. But then that is what the elf wants everyone and everything the same and a over used word, equal. LOL


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> A very lame article, a propaganda piece with very weak ammunition. We don't know enough about the Colorado incident yet. One of the other "examples" was calling protesters terrorists because they were armed. Really? Someone with an opinion and also exercising their rights is a terrorist now? One other incident was "firing at a mosque". Is it known that someone intentionally shot into that building, and not a drive-by, a misplaced celebratory shot fired in the air, etc??
> 
> Assumptions and innuendo and a remarkable lack of facts used in the piece.
> 
> To sum it up, is that all ya got?


So if a whole bunch of Muslims decided to carry guns, dress in camo and hang out in front of your Church next Sunday waving signs saying they hate you that would be cool with you right? I mean they wouldn't be trying to intimidate your or anything now would they? 

Talk about spinning the story. That takes the cake right there. 

So go ahead tell me these are just nice people exercising their 2nd amendment rights:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...que-publishes-list-of-muslims-home-addresses/

I can not believe you are defending scum like this. 

Or like this:

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/...arred-by-anti-Islam-6048881.php#photo-7454716


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

LOL, I doubt it will help. Actual facts don't seem to matter much anymore.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Raeven said:


> LOL, I doubt it will help. Actual facts don't seem to matter much anymore.


They do to people that actually want to learn, not so much, with "hate all muslims" crowd.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

farmrbrown said:


> Let me see if I got the facts in the OP right.
> One terrorist bombing in Paris, over 130 dead.
> *Six* "terrorist incidents" in America, *3* dead - that from one incident from a man we all can see doesn't have all his marbles.
> But am I supposed to see some kind of mathematical equality in all of this?
> Because I have to say, I didn't get that from the article.


I believe these terrorist attacks were all in November 2015, and only in the US.

Believe it or not, I simply don't care.


----------



## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Raeven said:


> There's so much misinformation in this thread, it is depressing.
> 
> We have been bringing refugees in from the Middle East for... well, pretty much always. Since 2013, we have brought in over 88,000 of them.
> 
> ...


What about the ones that do not get a plane ticket and walked in? Like the ones that walked to Germany.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

Old Vet said:


> What about the ones that do not get a plane ticket and walked in? Like the ones that walked to Germany.


A lawful refugee is different than an illegal immigrant. That's another important distinction to learn.


----------



## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

Raeven said:


> A lawful refugee is different than an illegal immigrant. That's another important distinction to learn.


So they weren't refugees? That is what I thought. But no body explained the way you did. So we will get both kinds.


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

Old Vet said:


> So they weren't refugees? That is what I thought. But no body explained the way you did. So we will get both kinds.


We will not be getting any refugees from Germany. Those that walked to Germany are seeking refuge in Germany, not in the United States. The only Syrian refugees coming to the USA will come from UN camps after going through the vetting process I previously described. No exceptions.


----------



## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Darren said:


> ISIS has Syrian passports that they found when they overran at least one city. We don't know what happened with those. We know from Germany that refugees are being recruited.
> 
> I have no issue with allowing Syrian refugees as long as they are vetted. That is the problem. In days gone by people went through Ellis Island or other places and went through processing. Simply allowing people in willy nilly is not good.
> 
> We're in the process of impoverishing people in Appalachia. People will lose their pensions. What about the Americans who lived and even served this country to preserve it for the rest of us? FWIW, *the War on Poverty was a failure.*


as has been the war on drugs, the war on stupid, the war on crime, the war on....... Pick any since 1945. Our government isn't very good at fighting battles that involve unseen enemies.


----------



## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Patchouli said:


> White people: random violence or insanity.
> 
> Brown people: terrorism



Nope.
The OP's article cited arrests of white people associated with Aryan nation, skinheads or whatever that were planning terrorism.
The nutjob in Colorado has been cracked up for years, I doubt he was part of any organized terrorist group.
The armed people in Irving Texas were white (as far as I could tell), rude and offensive, but not what the gov't or I would call a terrorist.

The savages that blew up and shot up Paris are terrorists of the worst kind, obviously.
Well, not obvious to everyone ................



Irish Pixie said:


> I believe these terrorist attacks were all in November 2015, and only in the US.
> 
> Believe it or not, I simply don't care.



Oh, I believe you.
That much is obvious to me.


----------



## MO_cows (Aug 14, 2010)

Patchouli said:


> So if a whole bunch of Muslims decided to carry guns, dress in camo and hang out in front of your Church next Sunday waving signs saying they hate you that would be cool with you right? I mean they wouldn't be trying to intimidate your or anything now would they?
> 
> Talk about spinning the story. That takes the cake right there.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't like it a bit, it would make me very uncomfortable - but that wouldn't make them "terrorists" by definition. If they were carrying pressure cookers on the other hand.....

Just like I thought the young men who were carrying their biggest baddest firepower into family restaurants awhile back were idiots, but they had the right to be idiots.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

MO_cows said:


> A very lame article, a propaganda piece with very weak ammunition. We don't know enough about the Colorado incident yet. One of the other "examples" was calling protesters terrorists because they were armed. Really? Someone with an opinion and also exercising their rights is a terrorist now? One other incident was "firing at a mosque". Is it known that someone intentionally shot into that building, and not a drive-by, a misplaced celebratory shot fired in the air, etc??
> 
> Assumptions and innuendo and a remarkable lack of facts used in the piece.
> 
> To sum it up, is that all ya got?


Post of the day award.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> White people: random violence or insanity.
> 
> Brown people: terrorism


I find that offensive, as well as a racist comment.

Let me ask you this: How will these Syrian refuges be vetted? Do you even care if they're vetted?


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Raeven said:


> There's so much misinformation in this thread, it is depressing.
> 
> We have been bringing refugees in from the Middle East for... well, pretty much always. Since 2013, we have brought in over 88,000 of them.
> 
> ...


How are they vetted? Like the Syrian refuge who was a shooter in Paris? How? How do we 'vet' Syrian refugees? Don't care if it takes 2 wks or 2 yrs...just tell me HOW?


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Tricky Grama said:


> How are they vetted? Like the Syrian refuge who was a shooter in Paris? How? How do we 'vet' Syrian refugees? Don't care if it takes 2 wks or 2 yrs...just tell me HOW?


This question has been answered multiple times, on multiple threads.

You are an adult, hopefully with enough skill to either search HT for the multiple threads, or use Google. I'll give you a hint: start at http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

farmrbrown said:


> Nope.
> The OP's article cited arrests of white people associated with Aryan nation, skinheads or whatever that were planning terrorism.
> The nutjob in Colorado has been cracked up for years, I doubt he was part of any organized terrorist group.
> The armed people in Irving Texas were white (as far as I could tell), rude and offensive, but not what the gov't or I would call a terrorist.
> ...


Post of the day award.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

MO_cows said:


> I wouldn't like it a bit, it would make me very uncomfortable - but that wouldn't make them "terrorists" by definition. If they were carrying pressure cookers on the other hand.....
> 
> Just like I thought the young men who were carrying their biggest baddest firepower into family restaurants awhile back were idiots, but they had the right to be idiots.


Hmmm...yup, there's also that factor of YOUR church...is it a source of inciting terrorism? Seems many mosques HAVE been. 
Hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good liberal lie, tho. You know, the ones here who HATE all Christians.

Disclaimer: I KNOW the Christian haters here don't hate ALL Christians but since they get to say WE hate all muslims, well, ya know, I get to say they're haters.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> This question has been answered multiple times, on multiple threads.
> 
> You are an adult, hopefully with enough skill to either search HT for the multiple threads, or use Google. I'll give you a hint: start at http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home


Nice website but nothing about how they'll determine if 1...2...or a dozen of these folks are terrorists. NOTHING. 
I'll ask again: how does any org get info from the Syrian gov't? On any of these people? How do THEY get passports, visas, any kind of documentation?


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> White people: random violence or insanity.
> 
> Brown people: terrorism


When someone expresses their own thoughts and opinions, is it reasonable to dismiss them as being less relevant than your own by suggesting they're racist? 

No debate is going to be won by putting words in other people's mouths or trying to back them into a corner based on a single comment.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Tricky Grama said:


> I find that offensive, as well as a racist comment.
> 
> Let me ask you this: How will these Syrian refuges be vetted? Do you even care if they're vetted?


That's been explained several times, and links posted to the UN agency that handles such issues


----------



## Raeven (Oct 11, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> How are they vetted? Like the Syrian refuge who was a shooter in Paris? How? How do we 'vet' Syrian refugees? Don't care if it takes 2 wks or 2 yrs...just tell me HOW?


I'm not sure what you missed in my original post you quoted when you asked me this question. I explained the length of the vetting process and the known agencies who investigate. I explained that some of the process is classified, and hopefully I don't have to explain the reasons for classification.

I think you and others are hung up on how someone can be vetted when they have no "history" to vet. It might be worth considering the following:

The United States conducts its own vetting process. While they may employ the services of some outside agencies to accomplish it, it is the sole responsibility of the United States to ensure the refugees that enter our soil have been thoroughly reviewed.

Many Syrian refugees do in fact have legitimate passports, birth certificates and other documentation that supports their claim of legitimacy. People know better than to leave home without this stuff, especially if they don't plan to go home. Syrians who present at UN camps with zero documentation have little chance of even starting, let alone making it through, the rigorous vetting process of the United States.

If you hate and despise the government of the United States, then I doubt any number of assurances will assuage your fears. However, it is worth noting that the agencies tasked with doing vetting -- FBI, CIA, NSA, State Department, ICE and DHS -- are pretty good at figuring out who people are, and their personnel don't change irrespective of which party is in power. Their processes remain the same. Hundreds of thousands of Middle Eastern refugees have been admitted to this country for many years, and so far, their track record is USA 100%, terrorists 0%. Of course this is no guarantee of 100% security ad infinitum. But at some point, you have to ask yourself why you are so frightened of a risk that is less than your chances of winning the Lotto.

We have an obligation as a powerful nation to consider the requests and needs of our allies. They have asked for our help in dealing with the refugee crisis, which impacts them daily in an enormous way. Even if you disagree that our invasion of Iraq was not the predicate event that commenced the spreading unrest in the Middle East, it is nonetheless true that it is the perception of both our allies and our enemies that it *was* the predicate event. As such, it is hoped by our allies that we will take some (frankly minimal) responsibility for these consequences. This includes taking some of the refugees who are now fleeing terrorism in their own countries.

Even some prominent Republicans think so: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/...te-letter-congress-refugee-legislation-216318


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Tricky Grama said:


> How are they vetted? Like *the Syrian refuge* who was a shooter in Paris? How? How do we 'vet' Syrian refugees? Don't care if it takes 2 wks or 2 yrs...just tell me HOW?


There's no proof he was from Syria, since the passport was a forgery.

I suspect you really don't read much of the information posted, since here you are arguing about a "refuge" with a passport, but another post by you claim they have no paperwork to allow them to be vetted


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

MO_cows said:


> I wouldn't like it a bit, it would make me very uncomfortable - but that wouldn't make them "terrorists" by definition. If they were carrying pressure cookers on the other hand.....
> 
> Just like I thought the young men who were carrying their biggest baddest firepower into family restaurants awhile back were idiots, but they had the right to be idiots.


Where are pressure cookers in the definition? If their goal is to terrorize and intimidate and run people off they are terrorists. 

The ones carrying guns into Target and Starbucks were idiots trying to make some sort of political point about their right to bear arms. It wasn't very effective but it was 100% political and their stated goal was actually not to intimidate anyone but to make them feel more comfortable seeing guns in public places.

The anti-Muslim protesters also have clearly stated goals: they want Muslims gone from their cities. They carry the guns and signs that say Islam is evil, go back home to your own country, behead Muslims, etc. They are very angrily promoting hate and violence and armed to the teeth to drive home their point.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Tricky Grama said:


> I find that offensive, as well as a racist comment.
> 
> Let me ask you this: How will these Syrian refuges be vetted? Do you even care if they're vetted?


Tell that's not the way it works in the media


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

wr said:


> When someone expresses their own thoughts and opinions, is it reasonable to dismiss them as being less relevant than your own by suggesting they're racist?
> 
> No debate is going to be won by putting words in other people's mouths or trying to back them into a corner based on a single comment.


Oh that wasn't based on just one comment. You should read more of his posts. It's pretty clear that TPH and plenty of others here only consider black and brown people to be the terrorists. White people get shunted into the insanity slot. Would you like quotes? Or whole threads? Because I will be happy to give you either. 

I should have clarified that the comment was aimed as an across the board statement from members here to the media in general. Apologies for not being clearer.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Patchouli said:


> Oh that wasn't based on just one comment. You should read more of his posts. It's pretty clear that TPH and plenty of others here only consider black and brown people to be the terrorists. White people get shunted into the insanity slot. Would you like quotes? Or whole threads? Because I will be happy to give you either.
> 
> I should have clarified that the comment was aimed as an across the board statement from members here to the media in general. Apologies for not being clearer.



I don't need quotes and don't need Facebook pictures to get what you feel is your point. 

I also don't feel it's appropriate to take small bits of information and paint everyone with a broad brush. Even if someone truly feels that way, in your face insults will not sway their opinion.


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

if isis is defeated and driven out of Syria who will be left to refill the country when their citizens are scattered all over the globe? 
Will the refugees go back? 
Should the refugees be forced to go back to their home once the danger is over?
Will Syria be given over to the Palestinians so they can finally have a country of their own and would that finally stop the bickering between the Palestinians and the Jews? 

I am all for helping people in need but look what happened to france after they took in too many refugees. 


It is true most americans do not know much about the middle east or islam. 9/11 forced us to even consider the middle east. radical islam forced us to notice islam. Are we better people for it, no, it is just more problems.

Life was good before 9/11 and we need to get back to the America before 9/11.


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

It is not about brown or white.


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> Oh that wasn't based on just one comment. You should read more of his posts. It's pretty clear that TPH and plenty of others here only consider black and brown people to be the terrorists. White people get shunted into the insanity slot. Would you like quotes? Or whole threads? Because I will be happy to give you either.
> 
> I should have clarified that the comment was aimed as an across the board statement from members here to the media in general. Apologies for not being clearer.


I like how I get by named in this one! I think I have said that white supremisists are nothing more than thugs just like the cartels are nothing more than narco traffickers and we know cartels are central and South American. Not terrorists to me. Don't hate them because they are a different color than, I hate them for what they do, big difference. Thanks for the recognition and keep up the fantastic work!


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

wr said:


> I don't need quotes and don't need Facebook pictures to get what you feel is your point.
> 
> I also don't feel it's appropriate to take small bits of information and paint everyone with a broad brush. Even if someone truly feels that way, in your face insults will not sway their opinion.


Their opinions will not be swayed by any argument no matter how kind or rational. Have you taken our Marine from Texas to task for his in your face insults? He flat out called me a racist and a bigot recently. 

Again though my statement was NOT an insult. It was an observation. If a shooter is white they are almost always categorized as mentally ill. If they are brown or black they are terrorists. TPH just did a nice job of showing that with his list.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> I like how I get by named in this one! I think I have said that white supremisists are nothing more than thugs just like the cartels are nothing more than narco traffickers and we know cartels are central and South American. Not terrorists to me. Don't hate them because they are a different color than, I hate them for what they do, big difference. Thanks for the recognition and keep up the fantastic work!


I try. 



Texaspredatorhu said:


> Hers a thought on the Irving Texas "act of terror". They were exercising their right to openly carry long guns, they just chose to do it there! No one was hurt. The white supremacists are nothing more than street thugs like any other gang, the Connecticut shooting can be construed as a random act of violence, and the PP shooting was a psyco shooting people he despised. No terror just random acts of violence.


I have addressed the Irving incident in other posts. Your summary is exactly what I am talking about. It wasn't a 2nd amendment rally. They went there with the sole purpose of intimidating the Muslims going to that Islamic center. But you are trying to spin it to give them a pass. 

The white Supremacists use intimidation and terror to get across their point. They also kill people. Church shooting ring a bell?

The PP shooter does not appear to have been crazy either. He has a long history of being scum of the earth but not mentally ill. He was a disgusting human being who beat multiple wives and girlfriends. He spouted hate filled religious, homophobic and political rhetoric but you can see that on any forum anywhere. 

None of those were random acts. All of them involved people who planned their attacks. Groups who coordinated their intimidation. Wrote manifestos. Filled forum boards and websites with their hateful screeds.


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> I try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's good and great, it may not be random violence to you so we can call it acts of violence.


----------



## haypoint (Oct 4, 2006)

Here's a worldwide list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

But I think the list for the US is the one you want:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/americanattacks.htm


----------



## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Patchouli said:


> Their opinions will not be swayed by any argument no matter how kind or rational. Have you taken our Marine from Texas to task for his in your face insults? He flat out called me a racist and a bigot recently.
> 
> Again though my statement was NOT an insult. It was an observation. If a shooter is white they are almost always categorized as mentally ill. If they are brown or black they are terrorists. TPH just did a nice job of showing that with his list.


How do you categorize the home grown terrorists that join ISIS yet may have no immediate familial connections to the MidEast?


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Raeven said:


> I'm not sure what you missed in my original post you quoted when you asked me this question. I explained the length of the vetting process and the known agencies who investigate. I explained that some of the process is classified, and hopefully I don't have to explain the reasons for classification.
> 
> I think you and others are hung up on how someone can be vetted when they have no "history" to vet. It might be worth considering the following:
> 
> ...


So "many" have passports, birth certificates, etc? Ya think any are fake? Forged? How to tell? The FBI Director says it will be very difficult to determine this...hmmmm...I think I'll go w/ him on this, not you. Most PTB in the security area agree there's no way to do accurate vetting. Period.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> They do to people that actually want to learn, not so much, with "hate all muslims" crowd.


Ah, I see I was deleted for calling you on your lie. Was it b/c you cannot produce links showing that any of us say we hate ALL Muslims? Please produce. Or stop lying.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Tricky Grama said:


> Ah, I see I was deleted for calling you on your lie. Was it b/c you cannot produce links showing that any of us say we hate ALL Muslims? Please produce. Or stop lying.


I think everyone knows who is the liar, and it isn't me.


----------



## M5farm (Jan 14, 2014)

Ill go on record. I do not trust a Muslim. you can call it what you want and I really don't care. People have no way of discerning what some believe are good ones from the bad ones.


----------



## City Bound (Jan 24, 2009)

M5farm said:


> Ill go on record. I do not trust a Muslim. you can call it what you want and I really don't care. People have no way of discerning what some believe are good ones from the bad ones.


The bad ones hide their faces and hide who they are. They pretend they are brave but they hide behind women, children, and masks. 
The same thing happened in Vietnam when the Vietcong soldiers dressed like civilians and hid in civilians villages. Our soldiers had to burn the villages and accidentally kill some civilians because of the confusion deliberately created by the Vietcong. The antiwar, anti-Americans used that as propaganda.


----------



## Texaspredatorhu (Sep 15, 2015)

Patchouli said:


> Their opinions will not be swayed by any argument no matter how kind or rational. Have you taken our Marine from Texas to task for his in your face insults? He flat out called me a racist and a bigot recently.
> 
> Again though my statement was NOT an insult. It was an observation. If a shooter is white they are almost always categorized as mentally ill. If they are brown or black they are terrorists. TPH just did a nice job of showing that with his list.


Indeed I did say that and yes I was informed about it. I recall myself saying white supremisists are nothing more than thugs, just like the blacks and Browns, Muslims would be a religious group not a race. Therefore hating Muslims would be prejudice not racist.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> I think everyone knows who is the liar, and it isn't me.


Seems like it's usually the person screeching about everyone else being a liar that has a pathological problem with lying. And that isn't you.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

mmoetc said:


> We could easily take care of own. We find many excuses not to and many reasons they aren't worthy of caring for.


You are free to take care of as many of the people you think are worthy. But you are not free to force your neighbor to take care of anyone!

But I have a great solution for the islamic refugee situation. We supply the necessary military cargo planes to pick them up and take them to any muslim nation they wish where the believers in the religion of peace and charity can take care of their brothers and sisters.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

greg273 said:


> 'Take care of our own people'?? What do you mean? According to some on this forum, there is NO poverty in this country, ya know, because poor people have like refrigerators and a TV.


When was the last time you saw a starving person on the street in the US? Ever seen a child on the street with a distended stomach from malnutrition? When was the last time you went to the "sanitary landfill" and saw people picking through it to find what they needed to live? 

Being "poor" in the US would be considered wealthy in the vast majority of places around the world.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> Good list. I just watched a story about all of the abortion doctors that have been shot and some killed. And then all the clinics that have been bombed or attacked. It was pretty disturbing. I knew there had been some but not so many.


And did you notice the dates? When was the last time something like that happened in the US?


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Raeven said:


> There are many factions of Muslims. They are not all terrorists. In reality, very few of them are terrorists.
> 
> You and others need to learn to tell the difference and stop lumping them all together.


You can say around the world most muslims are not terrorist but you have to admit that most terrorist are muslims.

Now let us change things a bit. We can say that most men are not child molesters but most child molesters are men, correct? Using your muslim refugee logic you should have no problem allowing the local kiddie prison to allow any random man to care for your young daughter. Or you just a bigoted sexist and would demand that any man who works with children should have a complete and very thorough background check?




Raeven said:


> Learning the difference between a refugee and a terrorist is useful, too. Hint: The refugee is the one fleeing the terrorists.


Ok, so how do you know WHY that person standing before you wants to come to the US? IOW, how do you tell the difference between your poor refugee and a terrorist who is just pretending to be one?


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Raeven said:


> There's so much misinformation in this thread, it is depressing.
> 
> We have been bringing refugees in from the Middle East for... well, pretty much always. Since 2013, we have brought in over 88,000 of them.
> 
> ...


Ok, say Iâm a refugee and your job is to vet me.

I am standing before you with nothing but the clothes on my back.

My name is George Jones, I come from Georgetown. I have no ID on me, my former nation was a third world nation and didnât have much of a record keeping system to begin with and my home town was over ran and burned to the ground. Iâm the only person from that area who escaped my former nation.

Iâm a good guy and promise Iâm not a extremist.

So do I pass your vetting?


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> They do to people that actually want to learn, not so much, with "hate all muslims" crowd.


I don't hate snakes but I treat it as dangerous until I can determine if it is venomous or not. Only a fool would do otherwise.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> as has been the war on drugs, the war on stupid, the war on crime, the war on....... Pick any since 1945. Our government isn't very good at fighting battles that involve unseen enemies.


The way we have been using the Truman 'well we don't want to really win' system of fighting seen enemies since then has resulted in a poor record of fighting them as well.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> This question has been answered multiple times, on multiple threads.
> 
> You are an adult, hopefully with enough skill to either search HT for the multiple threads, or use Google. I'll give you a hint: start at http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home


How do you vet someone when you have no way to confirm what he says is true? You can't ever prove that they are who they claim because they have no ID and you can't access what little government data there might have been. 

I can see the scene now. . . 

Vetter: What's your name?
Refugee #1: George.
Vetter: Can you prove it?
Refugee #1: Ask him.
Vetter: What's his name?
Refugee #2: George.
Vetter: Well ok I guess you really are George. George are you a terrorist?
Refugee #1: No.
Vetter: Can you prove it?
Refugee #1: Ask him.
Vetter: Is he a terrorist?
Refugee #2: No.
Vetter: Well that's good enough for me. Here's your visa George have fun in America.


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's been explained several times, and links posted to the UN agency that handles such issues


How do you vet someone when you have no way to confirm what he says is true? You can't ever prove that they are who they claim because they have no ID and you can't access what little government data there might have been. 

I can see the scene now. . . 

Vetter: What's your name?
Refugee #1: George.
Vetter: Can you prove it?
Refugee #1: Ask him.
Vetter: What's his name?
Refugee #2: George.
Vetter: Well ok I guess you really are George. George are you a terrorist?
Refugee #1: No.
Vetter: Can you prove it?
Refugee #1: Ask him.
Vetter: Is he a terrorist?
Refugee #2: No.
Vetter: Well that's good enough for me. Here's your visa George have fun in America.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

Texaspredatorhu said:


> Indeed I did say that and yes I was informed about it. I recall myself saying white supremisists are nothing more than thugs, just like the blacks and Browns, Muslims would be a religious group not a race. Therefore hating Muslims would be prejudice not racist.


Depends. Some of the hate for Muslims comes because of their race too. Technically I think it is bigotry though assuming race doesn't enter into the equation.


----------



## Patchouli (Aug 3, 2011)

watcher said:


> And did you notice the dates? When was the last time something like that happened in the US?


There have been multiple attacks on PP just since the videos came out. You really think Dear didn't go in looking for an abortion provider?


----------



## watcher (Sep 4, 2006)

Patchouli said:


> There have been multiple attacks on PP just since the videos came out. You really think Dear didn't go in looking for an abortion provider?


After seeing his record I don't think anyone can really know what he was thinking. To be honest with you I think if he had seen an anti-texting while driving ad just before he wigged out he could have just as easily have stood on the side of the road shooting at passing cars. 

Unless something has been found in the last few days he has zero history of anti-abortion support. He's not a member nor associated with any anti-abortion group. He has never been arrested for nor questioned in any anti-abortion protest. AFAIK, up until the time he started shooting he had not even expressed his POV on abortion to anyone. So saying this shooting is an abortion protest is almost like saying the shooting in Aurora, Colorado was in protest of violent movies.


----------



## Old Vet (Oct 15, 2006)

watcher said:


> How do you vet someone when you have no way to confirm what he says is true? You can't ever prove that they are who they claim because they have no ID and you can't access what little government data there might have been.
> 
> I can see the scene now. . .
> 
> ...


Lets see people were vetted and then killed people in California. So what does that say about the vetting?


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

watcher said:


> You can say around the world most muslims are not terrorist but you have to admit that most terrorist are muslims.
> 
> Now let us change things a bit. We can say that most men are not child molesters but most child molesters are men, correct? Using your muslim refugee logic you should have no problem allowing the local kiddie prison to allow any random man to care for your young daughter. Or you just a bigoted sexist and would demand that any man who works with children should have a complete and very thorough background check?
> 
> ...


Post of the year award.


----------



## Tricky Grama (Oct 7, 2006)

watcher said:


> After seeing his record I don't think anyone can really know what he was thinking. To be honest with you I think if he had seen an anti-texting while driving ad just before he wigged out he could have just as easily have stood on the side of the road shooting at passing cars.
> 
> Unless something has been found in the last few days he has zero history of anti-abortion support. He's not a member nor associated with any anti-abortion group. He has never been arrested for nor questioned in any anti-abortion protest. AFAIK, up until the time he started shooting he had not even expressed his POV on abortion to anyone. So saying this shooting is an abortion protest is almost like saying the shooting in Aurora, Colorado was in protest of violent movies.


Post of the day award.


----------

