# That changes everything



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The Iowa Attorney General’s Office is no longer seeking the commitment of a former Midwest Christian Services student convicted of myriad sex crimes because the individual now identifies as a woman.


https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...-after-sex-reassignment-treatment/4479275002/


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> The Iowa Attorney General’s Office is no longer seeking the commitment of a former Midwest Christian Services student convicted of myriad sex crimes because the individual now identifies as a woman.
> 
> 
> https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...-after-sex-reassignment-treatment/4479275002/


That's not exactly what the article indicates. It states that due to a much lowered testosterone level she is less likely to re-offend. It seems she is still going to be locked up and is going on a sex offender registry for life.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> That's *not exactly* what the article indicates.


It is *exactly* what the article indicates, since it's copied and pasted from the article.

"The Iowa Attorney General’s Office is *no longer seeking the commitment* of a former Midwest Christian Services student convicted of myriad sex crimes because the individual now identifies as a woman.

Court records show* the state dismissed the application* on Jan. 9. Attorney general spokesman Lynn Hicks wouldn’t comment on the reason for the dismissal other than to say “an offender’s hormone levels are an important part of substantiating an offender’s likelihood of recidivism.”



Irish Pixie said:


> It seems she is *still going to be locked up* and is going on a sex offender registry for life.


That is not what the article says at all:

"An Iowa Department of Corrections spokesman said Smith was *transferred* on Saturday to the Sioux City Residential Treatment Facility *for transitional release*. He did not say when Smith will be released."


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> It is *exactly* what the article indicates, since it's copied and pasted from the article.
> 
> "The Iowa Attorney General’s Office is *no longer seeking the commitment* of a former Midwest Christian Services student convicted of myriad sex crimes because the individual now identifies as a woman.
> 
> ...


*What type of facility is the Sioux City Residential Treatment Facility?*


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> What type of facility is the Sioux City Residential Treatment Facility?


He's being sent there prior to being *released*.
It's like a "half-way house".
It's all in the article.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> He's being sent there prior to being *released*.
> It's like a "half-way house".
> It's all in the article.


What type of facility is it, can you say?

*It's a corrections facility. And there is no indication how long Ms. Smith will be there prior to being released.*

https://siouxcityjournal.com/news/l...cle_17b16888-c12d-5cb0-ab1c-29de8294aff8.html

Sometimes there is a need for deeper Bing/Google searches.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> What type of facility is it, can you say?


I already did.
It's in the article also.
Your repetition isn't going to change anything, and if it's all you have to offer I'll let you just keep reading my prior posts rather than play this same tired game.



Irish Pixie said:


> And there is no indication how long Ms. Smith will be there prior to being *released*.


I knew you knew he wouldn't still be kept locked up.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I already did.
> It's in the article also.
> Your repetition isn't going to change anything, and if it's all you have to offer I'll let you just keep reading my prior posts rather than play this same tired game.
> 
> ...


Thank you.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> That's not exactly what the article indicates. It states that due to a much lowered testosterone level she is less likely to re-offend. It seems she is still going to be locked up and is going on a sex offender registry for life.


I copied that from the article.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> I copied that from the article.


Yes, you did. I further investigated, I'm funny like that.


----------



## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

It appears that the offender has already served approximately 4 years. It also states that the State was looking for a commitment of an indefinite period. Such commitments, because they are indefinite, need to meet a high standard. In Iowa, that means the state has to prove that the probability of re-offending exceeds 51%. The gender reassignment and lower hormone levels made it unlikely that the State could meet that burden.

As noted, the offender will have life long monitoring. An unusual case, but it seems to be a disposition consistent with the law.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Yes, you did. I further investigated, I'm funny like that.


You are also quick to accuse folks of stuff when you get your SJW button pushed


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

HDRider said:


> You are also quick to accuse folks of stuff when you get your SJW button pushed


I do have a tendency to jump to conclusions, but as I usually do, I looked further than the stated article into the supporting science and the type of facility she will be released to.


----------



## dyrne (Feb 22, 2015)

My understanding is that transgender women actually commit sexual assault or normal battery at a significantly higher rate than the male population as a whole... can't locate the studies offhand for some reason the google results just go to a bunch of activism links. They seem to have started with a reasonable hypothesis (lower t means lower chance of recidivism) but if they'd researched this I think they may have come to another conclusion. 

Maybe not though. The world is changing maybe a bit too fast for me to keep up with today.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> I do have a tendency to jump to conclusions, but as I usually do, I looked further than the stated article into the supporting science and the type of facility she will be *released to*.


He's not being "released *to*" a facility.
He's being sent there to be released *from* incarceration.
Words have meanings.
It was clearly stated in the OP.



> "An Iowa Department of Corrections spokesman said Smith was *transferred* on Saturday to the Sioux City Residential Treatment Facility *for transitional release*. He did not say when Smith will be released."


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

dyrne said:


> My understanding is that transgender women actually commit sexual assault or normal battery at a significantly higher rate than the male population as a whole... can't locate the studies offhand for some reason the google results just go to a bunch of activism links. They seem to have started with a reasonable hypothesis (lower t means lower chance of recidivism) but if they'd researched this I think they may have come to another conclusion.
> 
> Maybe not though. The world is changing maybe a bit too fast for me to keep up with today.


I'd be interested in seeing the studies if you find them. I'm sure you will eventually. 

It's been thoroughly researched as indicated in the original link.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Bearfootfarm said:


> He's not being "released *to*" a facility.
> He's being sent there to be released *from* incarceration.
> Words have meanings.
> It was clearly stated in the OP.


Yes, words have meanings. How long will she be at the Sioux City Residential Treatment Facility (which is a correctional facility) prior to release?


----------



## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

dyrne said:


> My understanding is that transgender women actually commit sexual assault or normal battery at a significantly higher rate than the male population as a whole... can't locate the studies offhand for some reason the google results just go to a bunch of activism links. They seem to have started with a reasonable hypothesis (lower t means lower chance of recidivism) but if they'd researched this I think they may have come to another conclusion.
> 
> Maybe not though. The world is changing maybe a bit too fast for me to keep up with today.


Its a complex subject, and I don't profess to know the answers. But I think you have to differentiate sexual assault from normal battery as a starting point. Interestingly, the study summarized at the link below found that male-to-female transitions resulted in retaining the male pattern of criminality, and that female-to-male transitions resulted in movement towards the male pattern of criminality. But that's all criminal behaviour, not specifically sexual assault, were testosterone is going to be more of a factor. 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

So if she changes her mind and stops the hormone therapy upon release... what happens then?


----------



## 54metalman (Jul 12, 2011)

It is a halfway house house. I have family that works there and they are to assist in the transition of the inmates being released. Set with paroll officers and housing. Smith is being released. Standard stay in halfway is min 30 days to 90 days


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

gleepish said:


> So if she changes her mind and stops the hormone therapy upon release... what happens then?


She goes to prison. The release to another correction facility was contingent on her continuing female hormone therapy.


----------



## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

gleepish said:


> So if she changes her mind and stops the hormone therapy upon release... what happens then?


Well, it's a surgical reassignment, so I think there is a low likelihood of that happening. But that's why you maintain the monitoring. If the risk profile changes, then you re-evaluate.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> She goes to prison. The release to another correction facility was contingent on her continuing female hormone therapy.


I didn't see that in the article, I must have missed it.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

The Paw said:


> Well, it's a surgical reassignment, so I think there is a low likelihood of that happening. But that's why you maintain the monitoring. If the risk profile changes, then you re-evaluate.


She started taking hormones two years ago... nothing indicates that she has had the surgery, unless I missed that part too... which is a possibility.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Well there ya go! Just remove a male offenders ability to "offend" and all will be just fine. (SARCASM)


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Danaus29 said:


> Well there ya go! Just remove a male offenders ability to "offend" and all will be just fine. (SARCASM)


Didn't they in times not so distant past, in the US, neuter them and eventually set them free? They weren't transgendered, they were degendered.


----------



## hiddensprings (Aug 6, 2009)

What I find amazing is that he/she molested " as many as 15 victims, ranging from ages 1 to 13, before being sentenced to prison in December 2015." AND...."victims were of both genders". So regardless of how he/she identifies, he/she is guilty. Nice, a new way not to hold someone accountable for their actions.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> How long will she be at the Sioux City Residential Treatment Facility (which is a correctional facility) prior to release?


The answer to that was also in the OP article.
I'm not sure why you ask so many questions that have already been answered.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> The *release to another correction facility* was contingent on her continuing female hormone therapy.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

> Irish Pixie said: ↑
> She goes to prison. The release to another correction facility was contingent on her continuing female hormone therapy.





gleepish said:


> I didn't see that in the article, I must have missed it.


Here's what the OP article actually said:


> “Josie Smith will be *subject to strict sex-offender reporting* required of those who commit the crimes she did,” Hicks said. “*She’ll be subject to supervision for the rest of her life*.”
> Hicks said the attorney general's office has *never encountered a case exactly like Smith’s*.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

The Paw said:


> It also states that the State was looking for a commitment of an indefinite period. Such commitments, because they are indefinite, need to meet a high standard. In Iowa, that means the state has to prove that the probability of re-offending exceeds 51%. The gender reassignment and lower hormone levels made it unlikely that the State could meet that burden.


All that was in the OP article too.
I suspect the biggest reason for the decision is they don't want a pretend female in an all male prison.
It's a recipe for disaster.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

So She doesn't have to continue... can decide to be a man again. And then since has already done his time, so... until he hurts someone else he's a free man. Interesting.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Bearfootfarm said:


> All that was in the OP article too.
> I suspect the biggest reason for the decision is they don't want a pretend female in an all male prison.
> It's a recipe for disaster.


So a sex offender being molested and enduring what his victims went through is a "bad" thing?

And since he/she started treatment while serving time, guess who gets to pay for this change.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

The 9th is a radical court

*9th Circuit: Taxpayers Must Pay for Sex Offender’s Gender Reassignment Surgery*


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

More information on the Idaho case:

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/23/7537...er-confirmation-surgery-to-transgender-inmate


----------



## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

The way to fix all of this is to give him the surgery. Remove his genitals and he will NEVER offend again. I suggest that the incision be between the C1 and C2 vertebrae.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'll have to google the original pdf reports related to sex crime recidivism among the Egyptian enuchs during the periods of 1000-600 BC.
I'm pretty sure it was way below the numbers attributed to the general populace at the time.
That may have been due to the Pharoah's "One Strike You Are Out" policy.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

So now if someone wants a sex change operation but can't afford one, all they have to do is get arrested and convicted before they ask for it.

I think a better plan would be to help them find a job and pay for it themselves instead of making the public fund them.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Looks like them paying for the operation just might save them money in the long run.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Looks like them paying for the operation just might save them money in the long run.


Letting him do his own castration would have saved the most.
An operation won't cure his mental illness.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> Letting him do his own castration would have saved the most.


Not likely. Doing it right the first time always is cheaper in the long run.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> Doing it right the first time always is cheaper in the long run.


It's not being "done right" now.
They are catering to the mentally ill in order to be politically correct.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> Looks like them paying for the operation just might save them money in the long run.


The state of Idaho may not be paying for this one, it's under appeal. And yes, with all the court cases, medical treatment for the DIY surgeries, it may be cheaper to pay for gender reassignment.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> it may be cheaper to pay for gender reassignment.


That does nothing for his mental illness.
It's like buying an alcoholic his own liquor store at the taxpayers expense.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> The state of Idaho may not be paying for this one, it's under appeal. And yes, with all the court cases, medical treatment for the DIY surgeries, it may be cheaper to pay for gender reassignment.


Other states have paid

You may be right, the 9th is being corrected


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> You may be right, the 9th is being corrected


Yes, I believe that's accurate.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

If we follow the commonly held belief that rape and sexual assaults are crimes of violence, I'm unable to accept the concept that someone who is gender reassigning or reassigned will suddenly be able to control their urges. 

I'm somewhat surprised that some are quick to support the inmate's position, given the nature of his crimes and one victim being a year old at the time of the assault (the oldest being 13). 

Perhaps I'm insensitive to the inmate's situation but I'm strongly of the opinion that a release shows disregard for the young victims and there I can find no statistics proving that someone who's had gender reassignment will cease to offend.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> If we follow the commonly held belief that rape and sexual assaults are crimes of violence, I'm *unable to accept the concept that someone who is gender reassigning or reassigned will suddenly be able to control their urges. *
> 
> I'm somewhat *surprised that some are quick to support the inmate's position*, given the nature of his crimes and one victim being a year old at the time of the assault (the oldest being 13).
> 
> Perhaps I'm insensitive to the inmate's situation but I'm strongly of the opinion that a release *shows disregard for the young victims* and there I can find no statistics proving that someone who's had gender reassignment will cease to offend.


Agree. The only issue I have with what you wrote was the implied apology for wanting the inmate punished.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Who supported the inmate's position. I see posts clarifying the facts. I see the correction system taking a position that they can't provide the proof needed to further incarcerate this inmate.

Nowhere did anyone say this would work or claim to believe it will other than the corrections system.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> Who supported the inmate's position. I see posts clarifying the facts. I see the correction system taking a position that they can't provide the proof needed to further incarcerate this inmate.
> 
> Nowhere did anyone say this would work or claim to believe it will other than the corrections system.


You must think some of us are stupid.

The position you, and a couple of others took is plain. Own it.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> Who supported the inmate's position. I see posts clarifying the facts. I see the correction system taking a position that they can't provide the proof needed to further incarcerate this inmate.
> 
> Nowhere did anyone say this would work or claim to believe it will other than the corrections system.


Maybe if one only bases support solely on using the correct pronouns... I don't support the inmate's position, I do give credence to the decision based on experts to let her leave prison and go to a correctional treatment facility. And I agree it's based on the legal means of keeping her in prison more than anything.


----------



## The Paw (May 19, 2006)

wr said:


> If we follow the commonly held belief that rape and sexual assaults are crimes of violence, I'm unable to accept the concept that someone who is gender reassigning or reassigned will suddenly be able to control their urges.
> 
> I'm somewhat surprised that some are quick to support the inmate's position, given the nature of his crimes and one victim being a year old at the time of the assault (the oldest being 13).
> 
> Perhaps I'm insensitive to the inmate's situation but I'm strongly of the opinion that a release shows disregard for the young victims and there I can find no statistics proving that someone who's had gender reassignment will cease to offend.


I wouldn't see my position as taking the inmates side, but rather being in favour of a principled process and relying on the judgement of experts instead of an emotional revulsion to the crime.e

The inmate served 4 years, and given the summary of the crimes, that certainly sounds light. But without more detail its impossible to say if that's within normal sentencing guidelines.

But the original sentence isn't what is at issue. The state was seeking indefinite commitment, something they typically do when an inmate is reaching the end of their sentence and still pose a substantial risk to public safety. The standard for indefinite commitment is higher, and rightfully so. In this case, the state didn't feel they could meet the standard, as the risk to reoffend was much, much lower after reassignment. That's a complex assessment, and I would rather rely on experts to make it. 

If you read the part of the article that talks about the inmates childhood, its pathetic. These offenders arent typically fire breathing sons of Satan, they are monumentally screwed up victims in their own right. I am less interested in the punitive aspect of sentencing, and more in the public safety aspect. If gender reassignment serves to protect the public and also helps this person stabilize psychologically, why wouldn't we do that?


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

The Paw said:


> I wouldn't see my position as taking the inmates side, but rather being in favour of a principled process and relying on the judgement of experts instead of an emotional revulsion to the crime.e
> 
> The inmate served 4 years, and given the summary of the crimes, that certainly sounds light. But without more detail its impossible to say if that's within normal sentencing guidelines.
> 
> ...


Before my brother in law went into policing, he worked with sexually abused children and it seems the cycle is endless and repairing those broken lives seems improbable. Those who were sexually abused as children go on to sexually abuse other children and so on. 

He spoke often of young girls who were sexually abused that come to believe that acting in overly sexual ways toward adults is not unusual and repairing that damage is problematic. 

I'm also of the opinion that if someone is not able to comprehend that sexually assaulting a one year old child is wrong, there is no place in society for them, regardless of how much time they've served or what gender they prefer. 

If it makes it easier to understand my firm support of victims, it's best to disclose the fact that my cousin was murdered several years ago and the consequences for one person's actions have a very long lasting impact on many others, even if the system does feel they're reformed and unlikely to offend again. 

I also look at a friend's son who was released after serving time for manslaughter in a drug deal gone bad and while she thinks he's reformed and living the clean life, his Facebook page strongly suggests otherwise. I can't claim to know if he will shoot another dealer but he was back dealing drugs within 24 hours of his release and it wasn't long after that when he was posing for pictures with another illegal firearm.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

wr said:


> I'm somewhat surprised that some are quick to support the inmate's position, given the nature of his crimes and one victim being a year old at the time of the assault (the oldest being 13).


I wonder if it's really "support for the inmate's position" or the usual "desire to disagree".

I still believe they just couldn't figure out where to put him so they decided to release him and be done with it.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

The Paw said:


> These offenders arent typically fire breathing sons of Satan, *they are* *monumentally screwed up* victims in their own right.


Hence the need for "commitment" so they can be assured of receiving the *treatment* they need.

It's funny how those who keep saying the solution to the homeless and addicts is "*treatment*" of their mental health issues, but in this case they want tax-payer funded surgery that helps nothing at all. 

I guess patterns never change.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I wonder if it's really "support for the inmate's position" or the usual "desire to disagree".
> 
> I still believe they just couldn't figure out where to put him so they decided to release him and be done with it.


I think you hit the nail on the head!


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

gleepish said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head!


I call them as I see them.
Not everyone agrees, but that doesn't bother me.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> Maybe if one only bases support solely on using *the correct pronouns*...


The *correct* pronouns are "he", "him" and "his.
The pretend pronouns are "she", "her" and "hers".


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

First cleanup.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Women have be known to be sexual abusers of children. Simply removing an appendage will not change the possibility that "IT" will not abuse another child or children. I don't care how much torment the abuser has/will endure in jail. Abusers think nothing of what their victims endured. 

Soon we will have to make gender neutral jails to hold the gender "confused" people.

My huge concern is that this abuser was sentenced for a crime they committed. I don't give a fig about if they are capable of committing that crime again. They deserve to finish the rest of their sentence. Let them serve in a female prison or mental facility if necessary but they deserve to finish the sentence as dictated by the court.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I believe this person has served the sentence. The discussion is about if they can commit this person for further time based on special rules.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

My correct pronouns are those the transgendered person has decided upon. Apparently, Ms. Smith uses "she and her" as that is how the article was quoted.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> The discussion is about if they can commit this person for further time *based on special rules*.


Based on his mental illness and their *guess* about the odds of his repeating his crime of pedophilia.
The easy way out is release.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

painterswife said:


> I believe this person has served the sentence. The discussion is about if they can commit this person for further time based on special rules.


From everything I read on the internet articles, the person in the op is being released because they will have the offending appendage removed. The lower testosterone level makes them no longer a threat, according to all the articles. I could not find an article giving the original length of the sentence.
IMO, a person who sexually assaults babies does not belong on the streets.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

In Iowa sexual predators can be committed civilly until they are deemed no longer a danger to society. This person is going to finish her sentence which is 10 years with possible time off for good behavior. Because she is now a she and is taking testosterone blockers they don't believe they have the legal basis to commit her civilly. That is the case that is being dropped. Not her initial charges and sentence.

(mod edit)


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> mod edit.


What is "important" is this man molested 16 others, most of them minors, and only served 4 years.



> A preliminary report prepared by the state’s expert, Dr. Jeffrey Davis, says Smith molested as many as *15 victims, ranging from ages 1 to 13*, before being sentenced to prison in December 2015.


He got off by claiming he wants to be a woman.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

One year per incident, give or take, does not seem near long enough to me. There is only one way to cure a pedophile, well, actually there are several, but a bullet to the head--regardless of their gender--solves the issue and ensures they never EVER harm a child again.


----------



## 54metalman (Jul 12, 2011)

OK so lets take my OPINION on this freak. Removing the offending item from a person and low T levels does not make them less likely to offed or repeat. FACTS to back that up. They find other things to use in place of their own item. This SMITH has both male and female minor victims. FACT. The comment about a victim growing up to be a predator is not as much as you think. Yes it happens but not nearly like they would have you believe. The only true cure for this SMITH and others like it is death. Cats dont change their spots. Becoming any INNY instead of an OUTTY doesnt change a thing. $.75 bullet is the only cure. Going to a halfway house after tax payers pay for surgery is not a cure.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Cleaned up.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

This person is serving her sentence still. They only dropped the case to civilly commit her under the Iowa law for sexual offenders.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

Iowa needs to change their laws regarding sexual predators. Bill Cosby would probably not served any time if he had committed his crimes in Iowa.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

painterswife said:


> In Iowa sexual predators can be committed civilly until they are deemed no longer a danger to society. This person is going to finish her sentence which is 10 years with possible time off for good behavior. Because she is now a she and is taking testosterone blockers they don't believe they have the legal basis to commit her civilly. That is the case that is being dropped. Not her initial charges and sentence.


Do you have a link to that info? It's not in the original article. If it is I missed it despite reading it twice.


----------



## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

The fact that he survived anytime in a state prison for molesting a one year old is the most surprising part of this.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

So if such treatments are deemed by the court to greatly lower future problems and allow release then it would seem there is a state approved medical treatment that could be used on many others. If it’s good enough for the state in this case it should be good enough in other cases.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Do you have a link to that info? It's not in the original article. If it is I missed it despite reading it twice.


I pieced the information together from several articles. It took a bit of work because it has been blasted over many right wing sites. I will try in the morning to get the links if I have time. Which info were you unable to find?

She has two convictions, the first in 2012, the second in 2014. The first when she was 15. It looked like she has been in custody since the first conviction.

Iowa has a civil commitment law where they can keep sexual predators that have a 51 percent probability to re offend in a special mental institution. That is the case that was dropped because she has been chemicaly and possibly surgically castrated due to her gender change process.

She is now in a correctional half way house until she gets parole or maybe work release.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

The initial sentence for the crimes.
You're right, it's all over the 'net. There's even a site with a petition to keep him/her in jail.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> I will try in the morning to get the links if I have time.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Redlands Okie said:


> So if such treatments are deemed by the court to greatly lower future problems and allow release then it would seem there is a state approved medical treatment that could be used on many others. If it’s good enough for the state in this case it should be good enough in other cases.


There is no reason to believe that gender reassignment controls sexual urges, given the amount of transgender people in sexually active relationships. 

I'm only able to base my thoughts on an independent survey of one but the person I know who had male to female gender reassignment has mentioned no decrease in sexual urges and has been in a healthy long term relationship for decades and her husband is prone to mentioning their robust sex life. 

When this came up, I also did a bit of supplemental reading on the subject and google provides a wealth of information on the sexual urges/performance aspect of gender reassignment and it seems to work just fine. 

I also did some reading on chemical castration and came to learn that it doesn't eliminate urges and seems to be about 50% more effective than therapy alone. 

The only difference I can see is that the tools have changed but nothing indicates that sexual urges or the desire for relations will children will cease and the decision was based on a misunderstanding of gender reassignment.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Danaus29 said:


> Do you have a link to that info? It's not in the original article. If it is I missed it despite reading it twice.


https://alphanewsmn.com/child-sex-o...idered-a-threat-after-transitioning-to-woman/

"Authorities convicted Smith of second-degree sex abuse as a juvenile in 2012 and of lascivious acts with a child in 2014, attorney general spokesman Lynn Hicks told the Daily Caller News Foundation, whereby Smith was sentenced to 10 years in prison."

She has had the surgery." Smith underwent medical treatment prior to gender reassignment surgery in November 2019, the Times reported. "


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

painterswife said:


> https://alphanewsmn.com/child-sex-o...idered-a-threat-after-transitioning-to-woman/
> 
> "Authorities convicted Smith of second-degree sex abuse as a juvenile in 2012 and of lascivious acts with a child in 2014, attorney general spokesman Lynn Hicks told the Daily Caller News Foundation, whereby Smith was sentenced to 10 years in prison."
> 
> She has had the surgery." Smith underwent medical treatment prior to gender reassignment surgery in November 2019, the Times reported. "


Thank you. It's best to have the facts.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Iowa law also has hormonal therapy or intervention for sex offenders built right into their laws.

http://fifthdcs.com/FifthPolicy/index.cfm?policy=SotpHormonalInterventionTherapy

*TITLE: Sotp Hormonal Intervention Therapy*
*POLICY*
Iowa Code Section 903B and Iowa Administrative Code 201-38.4 require that all eligible sex offenders be evaluated for the appropriateness of hormonal intervention therapy. The Department will provide hormonal intervention therapy for designated sex offenders whose offense occurred after June 30, 1998. Hormone intervention provides offenders with controlled levels of medroxyprogestrone acetate (MPA) or other approved pharmaceutical agent treatment as a condition of release by the Court or Board of Parole. Offenders may voluntarily undergo a permanent surgical alternative approved by the Court or Board of Parole.

The Department shall contract for psychological services for the psycho-sexual assessment, medical services for the medical assessment and the administration and clinical supervision of the hormonal therapy.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Thank you. It's best to have the facts.


I would agree, which is why I did research on gender reassignment and the ability to perform sexually after assignment and how the hormone therapy may affect sexual performance. 

I would suggest that f one is going to pick and chose facts, it's best to have all the facts presented as well as the mistaken notion that chemical castration makes sexual predators safe to walk the streets.

I think we can all agree that judges don't always get it right.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Iowa has a very comprehensive policy and procedures to deal with the legal and civil process for sexual predators from incarceration to permanent civil commitment and or release after serving the legal sentence.

They believe that her chemical and surgical castration, therapy mental and hormonal and history of being abused at a young age that they have the no legal basis to hold her for permanent civil commitment.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

gleepish said:


> There is only one way to cure a pedophile, well, actually there are several, but a bullet to the head--regardless of their gender--solves the issue and ensures they never EVER harm a child again.


With this guy, his head would be for the last bullet.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> With this guy, his head would be for the last bullet.


At the very least I’d keep him locked up. In a men’s prison or hospital.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> Iowa has a very comprehensive policy and procedures to deal with the legal and civil process for sexual predators from incarceration to permanent civil commitment and or release after serving the legal sentence.
> 
> They believe that his chemical and surgical castration, therapy mental and hormonal and history of being abused at a young age that they have the no legal basis to hold him for permanent civil commitment.


That doesn't mean that everybody is in agreement with the comprehensive policy or the basis for the decision. 

As someone who is pretty vocal about protecting the rights of those who speak out about sexual assault, their need to see justice and to know the system works for them, this isn't a policy or procedure I can support nor do I feel it provides much comfort to the victims. 

Perhaps I would feel differently if you could provide me with some evidence of pedophiles that have actually been cured in recent years.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Herm


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

wr said:


> That doesn't mean that everybody is in agreement with the comprehensive policy or the basis for the decision.
> 
> As someone who is pretty vocal about protecting the rights of those who speak out about sexual assault, their need to see justice and to know the system works for them, this isn't a policy or procedure I can support nor do I feel it provides much comfort to the victims.
> 
> Perhaps I would feel differently if you could provide me with some evidence of pedophiles that have actually been cured in recent years.


I have not taken a stance on this either way in this thread. I have only provided further information about the situation. I am not here to sway your opinion one way or another. How you feel about the information provided is for you to decide.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> I have not taken a stance on this either way in this thread. I have only provided further information about the situation. I am not here to sway your opinion one way or another. How you feel about the information provided is for you to decide.


I did ask for information on cures for pedophilia and you're usually pretty handy with research and facts.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

A cure really does not play into this discussion in my opinion. Rates of recitivism are the measure used in this legal determination.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> It's best to have the facts.





> A preliminary report prepared by state expert Dr. Jeffrey Davis shows that Smith molested up to 15 victims between the ages of 1 and 13, the publication reported. The report also shows that *authorities sentenced Smith to prison in December 2015* and that Smith’s likelihood of committing another sex offense within five years was greater than 20% because Smith’s victims were both male and female.


The "facts" are they are going to release male pedophile because he decided to pretend he's a woman.



painterswife said:


> They believe that her chemical and surgical castration, therapy mental and hormonal and history of being abused at a young age that they have the *no legal basis* to hold her for permanent civil commitment.


They are guessing he won't molest children again.
Let's hope they guessed correctly and that he doesn't do it again.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

The bottom line on the topic of this thread is that the Iowa Corrections Department cannot legally hold this inmate. She has done her time, met the criteria for a gender re-assignment (and one article indicated she as already had the surgery), is (and has been) on hormonal and other treatment, and does not meet the 51% threshold for recidivism. She'll be on the sex offender list and monitored. 

Everything else is conjecture.


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

All I can say is that I think this is so very wrong and I hope that steps are being taken to change this law. On the other hand, Reagan did get it right when he told people to vote with their feet when it came to local conditions. Maybe they figure if they release her, 'society' will take care of the rest. Then they can decide if 'society' has a 51% threshold for recidivism or not. Maybe it's a win win.


----------



## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Lisa in WA said:


> At the very least I’d keep him locked up. In a men’s prison or hospital.


Right and wrong, moral and legal, hmmm, now where was I reading a thread lately on that topic...
This fellow seems to be somewhat of a contradiction. Could infantile rape be just a step or two above owning slaves, because I can't imagine dignifying a man who sexually penetrates little boys and girls as anything other than "it" or monster, yet such terms seem reserved for the apparently less dignified crimes against humanity.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Irish Pixie said:


> Everything else is conjecture.


Conjecture is basically an educated opinion. 
Aren’t you always reminding us that you’re entitled to your opinion?
I’m sure you won’t mind if the rest of us express ours.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> The bottom line on the topic of this thread is that the Iowa Corrections Department cannot legally hold this inmate. She has done her time, met the criteria for a gender re-assignment (and one article indicated she as already had the surgery), is (and has been) on hormonal and other treatment, and does not meet the 51% threshold for recidivism. She'll be on the sex offender list and monitored.
> 
> Everything else is conjecture.


I don't think that prevents people from discussing it or disagreeing with the Iowa corrections department. 

Laws and policies are formed and ameneded based on public opinion quite often and I'm thankful for that or we'd still be living in a time when women weren't allowed to vote, fired for the sexual orientation or a woman accused of causing their own rape.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wr said:


> I don't think that prevents people from discussing it or disagreeing with the Iowa corrections department.
> 
> Laws and policies are formed and ameneded based on public opinion quite often and I'm thankful for that or we'd still be living in a time when women weren't allowed to vote, fired for the sexual orientation or a woman accused of causing their own rape.


 You indicated prior that picking and choosing facts was wrong. I put out the facts of this topic as they were in the original post, and subsequent research on the Iowa law regarding sex offenders.

I'm not preventing or disagreeing with anyone's opinion or conjecture.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> You indicated prior that picking and choosing facts was wrong. *I put out the facts* of this topic as they were in the original post, and subsequent research on the Iowa law regarding sex offenders.


I think you offered your opinion of which facts you want to believe, while ignoring the facts you don't want to admit.

The facts in the OP say this *man* molested 15 minors and they are guessing he won't do it again because he now wants to pretend he's a woman.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> You indicated prior that picking and choosing facts was wrong. I put out the facts of this topic as they were in the original post, and subsequent research on the Iowa law regarding sex offenders.
> 
> I'm not preventing or disagreeing with anyone's opinion or conjecture.


I don't believe I indicated in any way that picking or choosing facts is wrong because picking and choosing facts is how we form opinions that are most logical to us. 

If the facts you presented are what are logical to you, that's great but I tend to look into the future to see how it will be used as a soft landing for someone else and I have strong empathy for victims and little to none for those who have sexually assaulted children. 

I've mentioned in the past that I provided respite care for a group of children and I can assure you the young boy who was sexually assaulted by a local man has a long journey ahead of him. His abuser has been long since released yet the misery he imposed on the child's life is starting to look like a life sentence.


----------



## Danaus29 (Sep 12, 2005)

painterswife, thank you for posting the info. 

All I can say is that I hope this person really doesn't continue to molest children. I hope the state of Iowa repeals their law because it sounds like he/she found a legal loophole and will soon be free to commit more crimes.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It is not really a legal loophole.

Iowa has a law and system for offenders that choose hormonal intervention.therapy.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It is not really a legal loophole.


It got him out of a long sentence for being a pedophile no matter what you want to call it.
It sends a message to all the other pedophiles.

It seems inherently unfair to base punishment on hormone levels, saying men are worse than women.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

It did not get her out of a long sentence. It got her out of civil commitment. The same path of hormonal intervention therapy is available to women though the number of sexual assault by women is less to start with.

She also is not a pedophile. All acts occured before she was 16.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

wr said:


> I don't believe I indicated in any way that picking or choosing facts is wrong because picking and choosing facts is how we form opinions that are most logical to us.
> 
> If the facts you presented are what are logical to you, that's great but I tend to look into the future to see how it will be used as a soft landing for someone else and I have strong empathy for victims and little to none for those who have sexually assaulted children.
> 
> I've mentioned in the past that I provided respite care for a group of children and I can assure you the young boy who was sexually assaulted by a local man has a long journey ahead of him. His abuser has been long since released yet the misery he imposed on the child's life is starting to look like a life sentence.


Empathy is great, I have empathy for sexual assault victims as well, but it cannot circumvent established law.

Many want to use this case as a rallying cry of all transgender people are bad. And many have. And it's just not true.

ETA: All states in the US have civil commitment laws. More information here: https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/browse-by-state/new-york

Here is NY's sex offender civil commitment procedure: https://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/nsor/som_faqs.htm


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> It did not get her out of a long sentence.


I disagree.
The OP article disagrees also.



painterswife said:


> She also is not a pedophile. All acts occured before she was 16.


That's irrelevant to the crimes committed.
The age of the victims determines the crime.
He was molesting infants.



Irish Pixie said:


> Many want to use this case as a rallying cry of all *transgender people are bad*. And many have. And it's just not true.


This one is, but they are going to overlook it because he wants to pretend he's a woman.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I disagree.
> The OP article disagrees also.
> 
> 
> This one is, but they are going to overlook it because he wants to pretend he's a woman.


The original article does not present all the facts.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> The original article does not present all the facts.


It presents those facts.
It's a fact he didn't pretend to be a woman until it was to his advantage, and after most of his crimes were committed.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Empathy is great, I have empathy for sexual assault victims as well, but it cannot circumvent established law.
> 
> Many want to use this case as a rallying cry of all transgender people are bad. And many have. And it's just not true.
> 
> ...


I haven't seen one person suggested that transgender people are bad but I do see a lot of people who feel that gender reassignment is not criminal reassignment. 

As I stated previously, laws have been changed many times over the years and not every law is a good one nor does one have to agree with a law just because it is a law.


----------



## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> It did not get her out of a long sentence. It got her out of civil commitment. The same path of hormonal intervention therapy is available to women though the number of sexual assault by women is less to start with.
> 
> She also is not a pedophile. All acts occured before she was 16.


What part of the definition of pedophile doesn't apply? Anything I've read indicates that a 16 year old is at the young end but meets the legal and psychological definition of a pedophile.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

The perpetrator was 15 and younger when the acts happened.

Actually I am incorrect. The second charge was for an act when he was 16. So technically he could be classified a pedophile.

A pedohile is anyone 16 or older having sexual relations with someone 13 or younger. I wonder how many people here could be technically classified as a pedophile. Personally I always thought of a pedophile was someone sexually attracted to prepubescent children.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> The perpetrator was 15 and younger when the acts happened.


Fifteen is old enough to be sexually mature (many mature younger) and he preyed on children who were not sexually mature.
Whether or not he was a legal minor is a social and legal construct.
I think most *rational* humans will agree that a sexually mature person who molests a toddler is a pedophile.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Just curious @painterswife:
You’ve been arguing legalities.
Legal arguments aside:
Do you, yourself believe this person should be released into society?


----------



## gleepish (Mar 10, 2003)

painterswife said:


> The perpetrator was 15 and younger when the acts happened.
> 
> Actually I am incorrect. The second charge was for an act when he was 16. So technically he could be classified a pedophile.
> 
> A pedohile is anyone 16 or older having sexual relations with someone 13 or younger. I wonder how many people here could be technically classified as a pedophile. Personally I always thought of a pedophile was someone sexually attracted to prepubescent children.


Old enough to distinguish right and wrong/


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

I have and will continue to only discuss the facts and legalities of this situation. I and no one here have a real incite into why, she did this or if she will do it again.

She meets all the legal hurdles for release with regards to time served and hormonal intervention therapy whether she is transgender or male taking hormones. She should not get any special treatment and she is not.

The only reason this discussion started is she is transgender and it was falsely implied that gave her special treatment. Transgender topics get special bashing here. Not once before has a situation where a sexual predators was not civilly committed in Iowa because they had hormonal therapy brought up.


----------



## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

painterswife said:


> I have and will continue to only discuss the facts and legalities of this situation. I and no one here have a real incite into why, she did this or if she will do it again.
> 
> She meets all the legal hurdles for release with regards to time served and hormonal intervention therapy whether she is transgender or male taking hormones. She should not get any special treatment and she is not.
> 
> The only reason this discussion started is she is transgender and it was falsely implied that gave her special treatment. Transgender topics get special bashing here. Not once before has a situation where a sexual predators was not civilly committed in Iowa because they had hormonal therapy brought up.


You were arguing a few days ago how something can be legal, and be wrong. Plus, you claimed to posses some super power related to divining right and wrong. Now you say it is right that this person serves so little time for heinous crimes.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

painterswife said:


> I have and will continue to only discuss the facts and legalities of this situation. I and no one here have a real incite into why, she did this or if she will do it again.
> 
> She meets all the legal hurdles for release with regards to time served and hormonal intervention therapy whether she is transgender or male taking hormones. She should not get any special treatment and she is not.
> 
> The only reason this discussion started is she is transgender and it was falsely implied that gave her special treatment. Transgender topics get special bashing here. Not once before has a situation where a sexual predators was not civilly committed in Iowa because they had hormonal therapy brought up.



Why? The facts are what they are and none of us, including you have any impact on what happens. This is general chat and most of us, including yourself share our opinions. What else is the point?
Regardless, I think most of us can figure out where you stand and what your opinion is.


----------



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Not


HDRider said:


> You were arguing a few days ago how something can be legal, and be wrong. Plus, you claimed to posses some super power related to divining right and wrong. Now you say it is right that this person serves so little time for heinous crimes.


Not once did I say how much time this person served or did not serve was right or wrong. I said the legal requirements are being followed.


----------



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Is this person going to be on the sex offender list, so people around can be warned. Hate to see person allowed to be around any children.


----------



## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> Is this person going to be on the sex offender list, so people around can be warned. Hate to see person allowed to be around any children.


boy, I hope so.


----------



## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

What this _person_ did was loathsome, absolutely horrible, unforgivable. They did their time, and can't be civilly committed. Those that are so upset by the fact that some sex offenders can't be civilly committed should realize that all 50 states have some type of regulation. 

As the article stated, and it's been mentioned many times in the thread, this person is on the sex offenders list, and will be supervised.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> The perpetrator was 15 and younger when the acts happened.
> 
> Actually I am incorrect. The second charge was for an act when he was 16. So technically he could be classified a pedophile.


He's a pedophile no matter how you want to spin everything.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> As the article stated, and *it's been mentioned many times in the thread*, this person is on the sex offenders list, and will be supervised.


It's also been mentioned many times he is being *released* because he's going to pretend he's a woman.

Repeating everything changes nothing.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> As the article stated, and it's been mentioned many times in the thread, this person is *on the sex offenders list*, and *will be supervised*.


Wasn't he being "supervised" when he committed his last crimes?
He has a long history of sex crimes and convictions.


----------



## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

painterswife said:


> It did not get her out of a long sentence. It got her out of civil commitment. The same path of hormonal intervention therapy is available to women though the number of sexual assault by women is less to start with.
> 
> She also is not a pedophile. All acts occured before she was 16.


So what is a person under 16 or 15 considered to be that commits sexual crimes against a child ?


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> The Iowa Department of Corrections considers her a woman. And they're the agency that is dealing with the situation.


I don't much care what they think he is.
They are just taking the easy way out by pretending he's a woman too.
They mostly consider him a problem they don't want to keep.


----------



## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Redlands Okie said:


> So what is a person under 16 or 15 considered to be that commits sexual crimes against a child ?


A "sex offender" at the very least.


----------

