# anyone have exclusively grass-fed dairy cows?



## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

I guess I thought that dairy always meant grain in addition to hay, with the exception of dexters. Just spent some time at a commercial dairy that feeds only a grass/alfalfa hay or grazing (plus salt, minerals, etc) and milks only once a day. And yes, he was not getting maximum production (averaged 28 lbs/day for mixed holstein and jersey herd) but he said that it cost so much less to do and his cows were so healthy that he came out ahead in the long run.

His cows looked beautifully conditioned! Really surprised me.

anyone here hold the grain and stick only to grazing/hay?


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

Yes, I do. They get fed hay over the winter as a maintenance feed when most of them are dry although I do milk some over the winter months. They have never been grain fed other than a few multifeed nuts at milking time which is given as a treat and the amount is so small it would have no impact on their feed intake.

I milk twice a day until they have peaked for the season - usually about 3-4 months after calving, depending on the cow - then cut back to once a day. I haven't kept any records but I would say that the cows produce as much if not more over the season using this method and tend to have a longer lactation without losing condition.


Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

This kind of dairying is becoming more and more common in the U.S. It has been proven that milk from 100% grass fed cows is healthier. It is also a way of farming that is much more sustainable. You aren't burning up a ton of fossil fuel to produce milk. All the grass-fed dairies I know have very little machinery because they don't need it. They believe it letting the cows do the feed gathering and fertilizer depositing. It helps greatly if you have cows with the right kind of genetics though. If you use AI, there are only a handful of dairies in the US with bull mothers that have the right genetics for grazing. Most grazing dairies in the U.S. use New Zealand bulls. Heather


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

I find it all just fascinating!

Heather/Up North - yes, this farmer complained mightily about the work/time involved in building his grazing-only herd. Seems many of the grazing herds are in minnesota and it's tough to move animals from Minnesota to Wisconsin due to tuberculosis testing laws.

Ronnie, when you say longer lactation - do you mean that you extend the lactation period before rebreeding or do you mean that they maintain their peak longer or maybe mean something completely different? 

My traditional dairy neighbor told me that dairies in Germany are graze-only and that the barns smell completely differently (less rancid?) and the cow patties are firmer, like horse output but larger, due to the grass. Ronnie, any input on that?

Graze only sure seems like a way to step out of the 'get bigger to survive' circle of agribusiness.... but then again, I know little. I feel the pain of my immediate traditional dairy neighbors though, in these tough dairy times and wish the 'system' was much different for their sake. Never seen anyone work harder than my neighbors. Rather in awe of the dairy lifestyle.


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## jim (Jan 22, 2008)

I milk once a day,rotational graze,free choice salt and mineral,no grain.Have 40 dutch belted,milking short horn and some holstien/jersey crosses.Somatic cell count- 100/300 range.Been doing that about 6 years.No more big feed bills at the mill.Won't be going back to the rat race anytime soon.Jim Sauk Co. WI


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## Cliff (Jun 30, 2007)

We only have Jerseys for home and family milk, but yes, that's the way we've done it for several years. Much easier, cheaper and healthier for cow and human.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

Not a dairy here but frame size is the most critical characteristic that I find for cattle being grass only fed. Frame 4 or less is IMO essential. I just sold my last larger size cow to the conventional cattle farmer next door.
cathleenc, cow patties on grass will be as you described above due to the fiber content. Grass and heavy clover will produce the usual 
ones we are familiar seeing. Cattle patties that resemble horse apples are consider by me to be representative of low nutrient feed.


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

agmantoo said:


> Not a dairy here but frame size is the most critical characteristic that I find for cattle being grass only fed. Frame 4 or less is IMO essential. I just sold my last larger size cow to the conventional cattle farmer next door.
> cathleenc, cow patties on grass will be as you described above due to the fiber content. Grass and heavy clover will produce the usual
> ones we are familiar seeing. Cattle patties that resemble horse apples are consider by me to be representative of low nutrient feed.


Your absolutely right about the cow size. We are breeding/selling the big traditional Holsteins out of our herd. Our good grass cows are considerably smaller. We also want a cow with a very wide muzzle and a wide chest. Even though he is a beef guy many of Kit Pharo's philosophies apply to a grass dairy too. We've always followed what he is up to. Heather


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## Callieslamb (Feb 27, 2007)

what kind of grass mix is in your pasture to grass feed only? I would love to do this!


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## Mrs. Homesteader (May 10, 2002)

We have jerseys that are grass/hay fed only. With our 14 year old jersey, we do give her beet pulp and alfalfa cubes just to keep her body condition up. We have an excellent grass mix, but with a drought 3 years on a row, that is why we are feeding the beet pulp. Our pasture has alfalfa, orchard grass, vetch, red clover, white clover, and that yellow one... trefol or something like that. The man who planted it try to make it like a European lea.


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## cathleenc (Aug 16, 2007)

Mrs. Homesteader said:


> and that yellow one... trefol or something like that.


Birds Foot Trefoil, lotus paniculatus. Our pasture is dominated by this and our sheep and goats love it!
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=LOCO6


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## littlejoe (Jan 17, 2007)

I'm curious?

I don't know a thing about dairying, spent most of my life around large ranches in semi-arid areas. Used to always have a couple of nurse cows, and I'd milk enough for the house.

They were grained/fed good twice a day and turned out to graze during the day. Not so much for milk production, but in order for them to cycle and breed back. OK, partially the evening graining was to keep them coming in so I didn't have to gather them up. My nurse cows were always moderate sized, but still if they weren't fed well, my luck in getting them to bull back was haphazard. I usually rotated four calves on most of them, and three sets,... they did well.

I was under dryland conditions at the time, but our native grasses are strong. Now I've got some irrigated grass being established.

My question? How is your breedback on these heavily lactating cows under grass only conditions? 

I realize that this can vary greatly with what's within your pastures. It would be nice to know what you're grazing also?

I don't intend on dairying, but this interests me???


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## springvalley (Jun 23, 2009)

well, here goes again, this is what we do and works for us. We also are a grade a dairy, milk reg. Jersey`s and do not just graze. We do feed grain, corn, oats and some soybeanmeal. (all home grown and organic~no chemicals or bought fertlizers) We milk in the winter and find it hard to keep enough weight on the girls in the dead of winter. We don`t pour the feed to them maybe 5 lbs. night and morning and all the hay they want. Our barn smells great, herd health is great, conseption rate 95%, heifer calf ratio 60%, cell count normally under 100,000. We milk twice a day no matter how low they drop in production, and normally 45 days to 60 days off dry period. And we sell alot of milk off the farm for private consumption.We have people driving three hours one way for milk, and love the Jersey milk. now granted I spend alot of time in the barn, and my family right there with me sometimes. I really enjoy my cows and get very attached to them , we have some cows close to ten years and keep them in the herd as long as they have no problems. If they start having some issues we sell them as brood cows, nurse cows or family cows. all our cows are very tame and halter broke so they are a treat to be around most times. Dairying is a career and a pasion and a way of life. Thanks Marc.


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## Ronney (Nov 26, 2004)

cathleenc said:


> Ronnie, when you say longer lactation - do you mean that you extend the lactation period before rebreeding or do you mean that they maintain their peak longer or maybe mean something completely different?
> 
> My traditional dairy neighbor told me that dairies in Germany are graze-only and that the barns smell completely differently (less rancid?) and the cow patties are firmer, like horse output but larger, due to the grass. Ronnie, any input on that?


Cath, I'm still milking two pregnant cows that went back to the bull a bit later than usual. They have both been milking for 9 months, one is producing 12 litres, the other 16 on OAD milking. Both have come through the winter in very good condition. When they went to OAD they did drop and then plateaued out and they retained that level until about two weeks ago when they started to drop again. As I said earlier, because I don't milk commercially I don't bother much with records but if I did I think I would find that I wasn't too much down on production across the whole season, plus the savings on water heating, running the milk plant and cows in much better condition. So I would have to agree with your friend as to the benefits.

Cows fed on grain, even if they have pasture, stink. It's not a smell I come across often but I do have a Jersey who has opening the sliding door to the feed shed down to a fine art. She sneaks in there and fills herself up on multifeed nuts, the chook pellets, the calves meal and man, does she pong to high heavens Grass fed cows do tend to do larger and firmer plops although these will vary with the season. With spring well under way and plenty of fresh grass, they are very runny at the moment. As the summer comes in and the grass looses a lot of it's moisture, these will firm up.

Littlejoe, I only have a very small herd and a mixture of cows ranging from first calvers through to a 13 year old, and have a 100% conception rate. The grasses are clovers, ryes and trefoil during the autumn, winter and spring with kykuyu taking over during the summer. There are also rubbish plants such as ratstail and carrot weed which are not worth the expense of trying to remove but have nutritional value if managed properly.

Cheers,
Ronnie


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## Farmsteader (Nov 7, 2008)

MARC, from Spring Valley, how many cows approx do you run there, and how many acres of pasture ? Just getting ideas, our place is a small Farmstead at this time. It is great you grow you own Organic Feed, Bravo! AJ and Denise, proud owners of one Family Jersey, Two Yearlings, and one Heifer Calf.


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## Michael W. Smith (Jun 2, 2002)

Up North said:


> Your absolutely right about the cow size. We are breeding/selling the big traditional Holsteins out of our herd. Our good grass cows are considerably smaller. We also want a cow with a very wide muzzle and a wide chest. Even though he is a beef guy many of Kit Pharo's philosophies apply to a grass dairy too. We've always followed what he is up to. Heather


This past Spring at the annual Grazing Conference they have in our county, Kit Pharo spoke. Although as you said, he is breeding and feeding for beef, you have to figure if a grass fed beef cow can gain weight on grass alone, surely a milking cow can too.

I never could figure out how the farmer's got away from milking their animals and then letting them out to graze. Many farmers today bring the feed to the cows. Not only do the cows get less exercise, but the farmer has to work harder - bringing feed to the cows and hauling manure away from the cows! How does that make sense?!?


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Michael W. Smith said:


> This past Spring at the annual Grazing Conference they have in our county, Kit Pharo spoke. Although as you said, he is breeding and feeding for beef, you have to figure if a grass fed beef cow can gain weight on grass alone, surely a milking cow can too.
> 
> I never could figure out how the farmer's got away from milking their animals and then letting them out to graze. Many farmers today bring the feed to the cows. Not only do the cows get less exercise, but the farmer has to work harder - *bringing feed to the cows and hauling manure away from the cows! How does that make sense?!?[/*QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## 65284 (Sep 17, 2003)

I'm not quite grain free, but close. My small group of Jerseys are pastured and get only a scoop of grain at milking time, mostly to keep them coming into the barn on their own.

I milk from April through mid November, twice daily until someting in June then go to once a day and dry off when the last of the hogs are butchered. They winter on mostly hay with a little ground corn in really bitter cold weather or as needed.

We use what we need for the house and the rest is fed to chickens, hogs, and calves. I don't sell milk as fluid milk, we, in a manner of speaking, sell our milk in the form of pork, freezer beef, and eggs.

Not a big operation and not getting rich, but that's not the point. We have all the meat, milk and eggs we need and make enough off of our sales of extra to cover all of our farm feed and animal expenses and pay for all of the grocery items we don't raise and a little extra.


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## Jennifer L. (May 10, 2002)

Michael W. Smith said:


> This past Spring at the annual Grazing Conference they have in our county, Kit Pharo spoke. Although as you said, he is breeding and feeding for beef, you have to figure if a grass fed beef cow can gain weight on grass alone, surely a milking cow can too.
> 
> I never could figure out how the farmer's got away from milking their animals and then letting them out to graze. Many farmers today bring the feed to the cows. Not only do the cows get less exercise, but the farmer has to work harder - bringing feed to the cows and hauling manure away from the cows! How does that make sense?!?


Because you can't pasture 300 cows. Or 1000, or whatever. Get above a hundred and you have to have a heck of a lot of pasture. And today's economics for most commercial dairyman necessitate big herds.

As far as "if a beefer can do it, surely a milker can, too", that's a case of genetics at work. I've got a really mixed bag of animals on the place now. Some of the purebred Holsteins can't keep weight on with grass/hay only. I've got a half Jersey who is fat most of the time on that same diet, and a 3/4 Jersey, 1/4 Holstein who skinnys right down. Everything that is half Milking Shorthorn does well, not fat and not skinny, either. The half Angus do well. The purebred Angus (short statured) do great. And there are some Holsteins out there that are smaller that seem to do pretty good. So they really run the gamut on what will do well on grass alone and of course it goes without saying that the quality of the grass or hay makes a big difference, as well. Some eat anything, some are fussy. The Angus will eat Bulrushes, for example. I have no idea if they get any food value out of them, but they'll eat them for fun. I never saw a Holstein even consider eating rushes. Far as I can see you really need the right genetics if you are going to go full out grass/hay only.

Jennifer


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## Up North (Nov 29, 2005)

Jennifer L. said:


> Because you can't pasture 300 cows. Or 1000, or whatever. Get above a hundred and you have to have a heck of a lot of pasture. And today's economics for most commercial dairyman necessitate big herds.
> 
> Jennifer


This is just an American mindset. The average herd size in New Zealand is around 250 cows and growing. These guys are the grazing gurus and graze exclusively. There are some folks in the U.S. that are grazing 250+ cows. Nichols in KS and Van Dalfsen in MO are just a couple of fellows that have really fine tuned their grazing operations in the U.S. For these folks you don't just throw a bunch of cows out in the pasture and claim you are a grazer. You really have to become an expert on grass and forages and the methods to most effectively utilize them. The folks that really know what they are doing are stocking one cow per acre.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

I can carry a broodcow and her calf on 1.24 acres, the cow for 365 days and the calf until it reaches approximately 550 lbs. Feeding no hay and no grain and I have done this for years. I have also ceased buying commercial fertilizer.


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## jirwin (Dec 3, 2007)

Snowville Creamery? Ohio. Check out this site. http://www.snowvillecreamery.com/


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

It's all about genetics and pasture management. I've got some jerseys that wouldn't stay fat on knee deep alfalfa and bermuda grass if they were on it year-round getting fed corn and cottonseed hulls twice a day. I've got others that will stay fat on ragweed. I'll know after this winter's feeding program which to cull and which to keep based upon fertility and body condition. 
For now, I'm just waiting to see how it goes. 

As far as putting commercial fertilizer on the pastures, I can't afford it anymore. I do use a small amount of my hayfields if finances permit though. I like to keep phospherous and potassium levels sufficient. 
I've found the best most economical fertilizer I can get comes out the back end of the cows and chickens. I just drag a pasture with a hillbilly homemade harrow once or twice a month to knock down the piles and let the rain do the rest. 

I will say I've recently gotten on a good spray regimen. For me it's cheaper to spray than to buy the diesel and time it takes to cover the pasture with a brushhog. Having an infestation with some really undesireable weeds I feel once I get them under some kind of control I ought to be able to handle them with rotational grazing.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

francismilker
I cannot support what I am about to type but I am of the opinion that something that I have not previously recognized has or is happening with my rotational grazing. I believe that with close allocating of the paddocks that the cattle have adapted to eating what was previously ignored and thought to be weeds. Following the drought of 2007, I started moving the herd daily in order to maximize the use of the forages. As the weather and the forages improved I continued the daily moves. We had a good wet growing season this year but I have noticed less weeds than any time previous. Come next growing season, I suggest you try limiting the cattle to a more restricted area and if circumstance permit maybe move as much as twice per day in the most weed infected area and not spraying at all. Remember that tolerant plants are not killed by spraying but surely they are stressed. I learned this from raising soybeans. 
As for reducing cost of fuel and time have you considered brush hogging and dragging the manure in a single trip. I have a hitch now on my brush hog and can and do pull both. As I overseed, I pull the harrow and distribute seed at the same time.


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## Lazy J (Jan 2, 2008)

65284 said:


> Not a big operation and not getting rich, but that's not the point.


That is the key, the commercial dairyman wants to have a standard of living similar to his non-farming brethren. To do so they have determined that larger numbers of cows is the way to do this.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Agman, 
Interesting point you make about the weeds. I too have noticed most of my herd will eat what I consider to be non-desirable weeds. Especially when they're young and tender. 
What I'm having to spray for is bitter-sneeze weeds, bullnettles, and horsenettles. 

The cattle clean the nettles out of hay exceptionally well. But, the bittersneeze weeds they ignore and spread the seeds out as they travel. I've also noticed they eat the mature seresa lespadiza well when it's in hay but will only eat it growing in it's young tender state. 

If I can get the bitter weeds under a bit more control I think I can get atop of it with rotational grazing on regular moves for the cows. 

To give you an idea of what I'm facing, I'm in SE Oklahoma where the only flat, tillable ground is along river beds and major creeks where years of erosion has created nice bottoms along both sides. I'm in the upland with very little bottom land. I'm atop a hill that is TOTALLY covered in scrub timber ranging in size of 4" to 16". I've got a good 6" layer of organic matter on top of red clay and sand rocks with ditches and ravines meandering through my entire place of 80 acres here at the homeplace. I've been selectively dozing about 3-5 acres a year and establishing bermuda grass. I was really on top of things until the drought of 2007 when I started buying hay that was extremely sub-standard to keep the cows alive. What I basically did was grossly overgraze my newly established bermuda and plant some pretty aggresive weeds. 

Up to that times I was able to run one cow\calf to 2 acres. Now, it's more like 5 acres. No joke, in a matter of one growing season the weeds literally took over and my sod of bermuda underneath was in such stress from the previous overgrazing I was afraid to spray. 

The intended repair: I moved all my dairy cattle with the exception of one home milk cow to my lease place where I keep my herd of beef cows and let the ground recover for a growing season. Then, I brought them back to winter here and stayed on top of harrowing manure and selectively setting out my 100% bermuda round bales on poorer spots of ground to build up organic matter in the soil. I also keep a sack of bermuda seed with me and toss a little on the ground before I place a round bale in a feeder ring. 
Things are looking up with rotational grazing. I just feel I'm going to have to go about spraying for another year. 

BTW, Most of my ground is not brush hoggable (SP?) even if I've had it cleared due to sandrock out cropping and I'm afraid I'll throw sparks and catch the place on fire in dry times. I have had some pretty good success overgrazing the grass with sheep alongside the cattle and they're slowing getting it done.


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## agmantoo (May 23, 2003)

francismilker
I know very little about bermuda grass as it does not do well here. We have a short bermuda that volunteers and it is more of a nuisance than a benefit. I am under the impression that bermuda grass does not stockpile well, does that force you to start feeding hay early in the Fall?. I grow fescue and clover and may have an edge in weed control in that the fescue is a cool season grass and being so chokes out a lot of the warm season trash in the Spring. If I do not let the cattle graze the grass too short nettle has difficulty getting started. All the farms around me are overrun with bitter weed yet for some reason I have nearly none. The five or six bitter weed plants I saw this year I pulled up. I have no explanation for the lack of bitter weed. I have observed the farms with bitter weed do all feed hay. I fed hay approximately 8 years ago and had some bitterweed then but it disappeared when I stopped feeding hay. When the bitter weed was present I would never let it go to seed as I always cut the tops off. What I do have that I would like to be free of is trumpet vine. The cattle will eat the trumpet vines but not to the point that the defoliating will cause the vine to die. The trumpet vine also survives brush hogging.
Your soil sounds better that what I started with as I had almost no topsoil, just the red clay. Fortunately I have few rocks. I do have a 30+ year told track loader and I have removed most of the trash trees and and filled in the washes. Over time and with maybe a head start, I have built a thin carbon layer and with the PH corrected I am able to grow grass on most of the farm. I get a lot of satisfaction on reclaiming the farm as I feel that you do too.


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## francismilker (Jan 12, 2006)

Agman, 
Around these parts, Bermuda grass comes in a lot of different varieties. (Common, Coastal, Guymon, Wrangler, Sahara Numex, and many others to name a few.) Depending on it's type, it's very good forage grass and excellent hay. It does stockpile well IF you are not overgrazing. AND, if you put the recommended commercial fertilizer application on it just prior to the first hard frost. A lot of the nutrients remain above ground if this is done. I'm trying to get away from adding any commercial fertilizer due to the cost of it. 
I do have some clover and fescue, but it doesn't respond as well to heavy grazing. It takes longer to regrow and doesn't take the foot traffic as well. 

And, yes, I've been feeding hay for some time now. I'm no where near the point to have grass organized well enough to go through the winter with. I might if I was at a stocking rate of 1 cow to 20 acres literally. Sounds like you've got it figured to a fine art and are constantly willing to learn new tricks. Thanks for the helpful information.


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