# EpiPen Price Hike Has Parents of Kids With Allergies Scrambling



## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Is this true? It seems to be a large increase.

The cost of saving your child's life has gotten a lot more expensive.

Parents getting ready for back-to-school season have another item to toss in the basket along with Trapper Keepers and boxes of pencils â and they're facing sticker shock at the latest price increase.

Doctors and patients say the Mylan pharmaceutical company has jacked up the prices for an EpiPen â the portable device that can stop a potentially life-threatening allergic reaction â from around $100 in 2008 to $500 and up today. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/eco...ids-allergies-scrambling-ahead-school-n633071


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

It's up to $600 here in Canada in 2006 it was $95 when I had to start keeping one. 
If the pen get's hot or cold, exposed to sunlight it goes bad. 
They recommend replacing at 6 months.

I used to have an Epihaler which was much cheaper, but that company ceased making it. People could take too much and it could not be used for kids either, so limited. Screwy if you were going into anaphylactic shock and trying to futz with it.


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

Go to epipen.com Mylan has a copay assistance program that brings it to a $0 copay. There is also a generic epinephrine pen. The pharmacy I work it had it for a little while. We stopped stocking because everyone only wants the branded Epipen. There was another one on the market that talked you through injection but it was removed from the market.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

no really said:


> Is this true? It seems to be a large increase.
> 
> The cost of saving your child's life has gotten a lot more expensive.
> 
> ...



I didn't bring this up in another thread on healthcare and the rising cost, but it is relevant.
A case of more than one cause, both legitimate, and both likely defended by opposite political views.
Anyway, here's a little more truth to add to the story........

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/28/b...ackman-hearing-congress-drug-prices.html?_r=0

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/in-36b-king-deal-pfizer-gets-a-small-but-important-epipen-monopoly/


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

Why charge a fair price and make a good profit when you can bend your customers over the barrel and rapd them


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

Tommyice said:


> Go to epipen.com Mylan has a copay assistance program that brings it to a $0 copay. There is also a generic epinephrine pen. The pharmacy I work it had it for a little while. We stopped stocking because everyone only wants the branded Epipen. There was another one on the market that talked you through injection but it was removed from the market.


Teva's generic injector has been stalled by the FDA and Mylan's competitor Auvi-Q has been recalled. 

I've bought those suckers from 1989 on and now my peanut/tree nut allergic daughter is grown and buys her own. Mylan's keeps tweaking their design just enough to keep the patent. There is no excuse for the way they've been jacking up the prices on these things with no competitor and I hope they get their heads handed to them.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Teva's generic injector has been stalled by the FDA and Mylan's competitor Auvi-Q has been recalled.
> 
> I've bought those suckers from 1989 on and now my peanut/tree nut allergic daughter is grown and buys her own. Mylan's keeps tweaking their design just enough to keep the patent. There is no excuse for the way they've been jacking up the prices on these things with no competitor and I hope they get their heads handed to them.


They need to get pushed out of business the whole thing stinks of a monopoly! Friend has two kids with allergies, that need the pen with them at all times. She is very upset.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

no really said:


> They need to get pushed out of business the whole thing stinks of a monopoly! Friend has two kids with allergies, that need the pen with them at all times. She is very upset.


Generally, the kid carries one, the school nurse has one, the teacher has one and parents carry one. If they get too hot or too cold, as when child leaves backpack in the car, they have to be tossed. It's very expensive and they must be replaced yearly.


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> Generally, the kid carries one, the school nurse has one, the teacher has one and parents carry one. If they get too hot or too cold, as when child leaves backpack in the car, they have to be tossed. It's very expensive and they must be replaced yearly.


They are also some of the most short dated items we receive from our warehouse and distributor--usually just over a year before expiring. That savings card from Mylan is good for at least a year but there are no restrictions on getting a new one.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

So much for Anti-Monopolies... I'll say this up front, I am a Trekkie and while many aspire to being  Ferengi  like certain Politico's and Business people, one industry is leading the pack in applying the  Rules of Acquisition  most notably *Rule 27 "There's nothing more dangerous than an honest businessman" & 87 "Learn the customer's weaknesses, so that you can take better advantage of him"* 

There used to be exchange for the Epipens which the pharmacy would give you a certain credit but that got done away with ages ago.
Actually if you glance at those "rules" I can see where the show writers got their inspiration from.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

As you might have guessed, sourcing meds from overseas inexpensively is kind of a hobby of mine. Interestingly I've had a few people ask about EpiPens recently. Here's one from a pharmacy I've dealt with before, no Rx necessary.

https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-768-epipen-autoinjector.aspx

Still kind of high at $170. Here's one for $84, but I'm not personally familiar with the pharmacy, and they require a prescription.

https://www.northdrugstore.com/buy-Epipen-Adult.html

Still, a pretty good price.


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## PrincessFerf (Apr 25, 2008)

Nevada said:


> As you might have guessed, sourcing meds from overseas inexpensively is kind of a hobby of mine. Interestingly I've had a few people ask about EpiPens recently. Here's one from a pharmacy I've dealt with before, no Rx necessary.
> 
> https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-768-epipen-autoinjector.aspx
> 
> ...


Nevada, I'm curious. How can you ensure that the medication is actually what they say it is? How can you ensure the quality of the meds?

I've heard a lot of horror stories of people getting what they think is "medication X", but there are other drugs in the medication. Sometimes the medication has not been properly handled and is contaminated or expired.


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## 1948CaseVAI (May 12, 2014)

PrincessFerf said:


> Nevada, I'm curious. How can you ensure that the medication is actually what they say it is? How can you ensure the quality of the meds?
> 
> I've heard a lot of horror stories of people getting what they think is "medication X", but there are other drugs in the medication. Sometimes the medication has not been properly handled and is contaminated or expired.


Yep - check with Prince. He had a bottle with a hydrocodone label on it but the ersatz pills contained fentanyl. Now he's dead of the fentanyl OD.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

PrincessFerf said:


> Nevada, I'm curious. How can you ensure that the medication is actually what they say it is? How can you ensure the quality of the meds?
> 
> I've heard a lot of horror stories of people getting what they think is "medication X", but there are other drugs in the medication. Sometimes the medication has not been properly handled and is contaminated or expired.


The medications that I source are legitimate meds that follow European Union (EU) standards. They have an agency similar to the FDA. Most of the world follows EU standards, not FDA standards.

So the meds are packaged and labeled professionally. For what they charge it wouldn't be worth it to make a fake label of that quality. Most counterfeit medications are just put in a bottle with a questionable label, which you should be suspect of.

Here's what generic Singulair from India looks like. It wouldn't be easy to fake, and it isn't expensive enough to make it worth doing.


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## Belfrybat (Feb 21, 2003)

It's not just the Epi-pen that has gotten very expensive quickly. The same thing is happening to insulin. A 2-300% increase in the past few years. And most insulins are only good for a month once the first dose is taken. There is no generic insulin in the US, even after it's been on the market for 100 years. Lantus, the brand I take, costs $260+ a vial with coupons and discounts, which only lasts a month. With Medicare Advantage, the price for me is $48.00 a month -- still very expensive.


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Belfrybat said:


> It's not just the Epi-pen that has gotten very expensive quickly. The same thing is happening to insulin. A 2-300% increase in the past few years. And most insulins are only good for a month once the first dose is taken. There is no generic insulin in the US, even after it's been on the market for 100 years. Lantus, the brand I take, costs $260+ a vial with coupons and discounts, which only lasts a month. With Medicare Advantage, the price for me is $48.00 a month -- still very expensive.


I had no idea that insulin did not haves generic!!


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## terri9630 (Mar 12, 2012)

I go to the epi pen website and get the coupon for free co pay. It does nothing about the $500 price but it helps my wallet.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

Nevada's image of the generic Singulair bubble pack exactly illustrates the economics of buying many of the ADC products. (I've been buying that from them for over ten years now, probably a net savings of >$2000 versus my otherwise $30+ a month co-pay from an HMO for Singulair alone.) At the bottom of the packet is printed the Indian retail price, 123 rupees for 10 tablets. A rupee is 1.5c, US. ADC charges a bit over 40c now per tab, $12 or so a month assuming you can buy some other items for enough to get $25 S&H charges waived. The Indian retail is therefore about $6 for a month, ADC doubling their money, *at least*, and likely more since surely they purchase many meds at wholesale costs rather than allowable retail. That's a Cipla brand packet, too, and they're a huge pharm company with no particular quality control issues. That's how much the US consumer is getting ripped for "on patent" prescription royalties.


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

Is it always the pharm company or can the drugstore retailers be involved too?

I remember at my gun club someone put up a poster showing what the big pharm companies charge the drugs stores as a wholesale price and what the drug stores charge as retail. It was pretty shocking.


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## MDKatie (Dec 13, 2010)

This is why government regulation is needed. When you control the market on a drug and price gouge, that is not ethical. Making a reasonable profit is ethical. Charging exorbitant prices for a life-or-death drug because you have the monopoly is shameful.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

What ever happened to the US Anti-Monopoly & Anti-Trust laws that came in for Darned Good Reason in the 1920's forward ? No longer bothering to properly enforce them ? might hurt the politicians investment portfolio's... if it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's pretty likely a duck.


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## DryHeat (Nov 11, 2010)

The pharm companies' justification for milking their blockbuster meds for huge profits centers on the admittedly large numbers of prospective compounds that go bust on them during clinical trials, plus basic costs of researchers and computer time isolating structures that could have desired effects. Of course, they don't mention the amount of that early development and searching that gets done in university academic departments and med schools funded by taxpayers by grants. To my mind, much more of the development and clinical trial certification should be done at taxpayer expense but with very limited upside profits allowed also. Pretty much, turn drug companies into utilities like electric and water companies, with overseeing bodies limiting investor profits and executive salaries to modest amounts. Of course, any such discussion gets quashed by lobbyists paid by the present gravy train with loud wailing decrying interference with the free enterprise market system, evils of socialism, liberal expansion of government interference (regulation).

All that lobbying pressure has worked even internationally with, over the past ten years or so, various intellectual property and royalty treaties being signed by countries like India to clamp down on their formerly free-wheeling interpretations of patent laws. Some 25 years back, development of generics was allowed there if only the most minor tweaking of a blockbuster western drug was done in the chemical manufacturing process. Sometimes exactly the same end product was made with steps 3 and 4 switched around, sometimes the patented boomboom-Na was turned into boomboom-K, if it were seen that there was no difference between sodium and potassium salts of the final compound. The anti-HIV antiviral drug monopoly was busted by Indian companies, Cipla in particular (Ranbaxy, Sun, Dr. Reddy's are others), doing that and selling for a modest profit 1/20 of what the US and Europe insurance carriers were getting ripped off for. (Just Google Cipla, AIDS, HIV generic drugs, or some similar terms.) Now, pirated "generics" are grandfathered in India, but treaties have been signed making similar development of more recent blockbusters rather unlikely.


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## haley1 (Aug 15, 2012)

since the fda is full of former pharma works that take their turn working there and then go back to their drug companies does not help


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

*" U.S., drug manufacturers charge what they think the market will bear. Unlike other countries, the U.S. government doesn't regulate drug prices ".*

This is a fact which you can look up quite simply. So WHO is the Government working for and in WHO's best interest ?

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-us-pays-more-for-prescription-drugs-2016-8

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. "
~Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey 

"Our society must make it right and possible for old people not to fear the young or be deserted by them, for the test of a civilization is the way that it cares for its helpless members". ~Pearl S. Buck 

"Any society, any nation, is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members -- the last, the least, the littlest." ~Cardinal Roger Mahony, In a 1998 letter, Creating a Culture of Life


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

I think that the problem is less the epipen company (although they are a bit greedy,) and more the FDA's baby. The FDA has required all of the generics be pulled, and have allowed the epipen patent to be extended quite a bit, in effect allowing a government sponsored monopoly. The company may also be at fault in terms of price hikes, but the price hikes may also be helped by government price drivers, such as the low reimbursement rate for government healthcare. (ever wonder why list prices for most medical care is so high, or why there is usually no cash discount?)

Try investigating the FDA, and see what rats start coming out of the woodwork.

Loki


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## no really (Aug 7, 2013)

Interesting article, it points to some large problems.

If lawmakers follow the usual script, Bresch could get called up to Capitol Hill next month to explain her companyâs justification for raising the price on the life-saving allergy shot. But that could be awkward, since sheâs the daughter of Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia. 

While Breschâs family ties may mute the ire of some lawmakers, others are already asking the company about taxpayers having to foot the bill for these price increases -- particularly after Bresch and the company successfully pushed legislation to encourage use of the EpiPen in schools nationwide. 

Bresch, 47, has been CEO of Mylan since 2012 and previously held other senior posts at the company, including as head of government relations. Last year, she had to defend the company after it moved its corporate address overseas to lower its U.S. taxes in a transaction known as an inversion. Now incorporated in the Netherlands, its principal executive office is in Canonsburg, Pennsylvania.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...hter-who-raised-prices-on-anti-allergy-epipen


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

That sure puts a different spin on everything doesn't it? (Manchin's daughter)

When I started looking at all this last week, not for the first time either, I came up with a simple, constitutional way to handle such extreme cases that doesn't involve any more gov't laws or regulations. 
Quick and effective.
I've gotta run in a few, but I'll come back tomorrow and see if there are other like minds that might have guessed how to handle this.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

Time for a Tea Party ? Overthrow the Oligarchs & Plutocrats and declare freedom. Ohhh Right, wrong century.


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## hoddedloki (Nov 14, 2014)

I didn't want to be the first to comment on the political angle, but the politics on this one are real. The CEO is the daughter of a democratic senator, and the company has donated a fair bit to the Clinton Foundation. And oddly enough, the FDA has required their competitors to pull the competing products from the market based on unsubstantiated claims. The main competitor (Sanofi) has donated significantly to republican campaigns. Guess they backed the wrong horse. 

Nothing to see here citizen, Move along.

Loki


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

Ohhh My * - The Scramble is ON *
http://time.com/money/4466052/epipen-prices-cut-mylan-gouging/

Ohh and they are shifting blame to the Affordable Care Act - Ohhh the LAMENESS ! But you are all aware this is just a MICROSCOPIC peek of what is really going on right.... 

Just for fun (better sit while doing it) take a look at who owns the bigger Hospital Groups and Medical groups and their Holding & Management companies. Then consider the "list of doctors" your Ins. Co allows you to see... As a patient you have to go where the insurance co tells you to go... Not much Freedom of Choice.

Doctors don't take the Hippocratic Oath anymore either in some countries... Think about that for a second.... get's in the way of Profit$

!! Another Article that further exposes things to consider and how they get away with it... Now folks are gonna really start grumbling... https://theconversation.com/the-real-reason-the-epipen-and-other-off-patents-are-so-expensive-64346


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

Steve_S said:


> Just for fun (better sit while doing it) take a look at who owns the bigger Hospital Groups and Medical groups and their Holding & Management companies. Then consider the "list of doctors" your Ins. Co allows you to see... As a patient you have to go where the insurance co tells you to go... Not much Freedom of Choice.


I don't mind that, because I see it as one of the few choices I have. The thing is that restrictive HMO & PPO insurance programs reward you for accepting their limited list of medical providers. It's a deal you make with them, where they say, "If accept our program and stay within our provider network you'll have much smaller copays."

So I found an HMO program that my doctor participates in, and I find the choices of hospitals & provider clinics convenient enough. It's worth it to me to go along with it. But if I ever develop major health problems I'll want to change to an indemnity plan.

I can always change to straight Medicare during the autumn open enrollment period, which is an 80/20 indemnity program. Most doctors, hospitals, & clinics will see straight Medicare patients.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

Fortunately for me anyways... I don't have any of those limits, restrictions and locked in service providers... My script fee is $8 and due to my disability status no copay's. That doesn't work like that here as the system is very different. The point is that no one should be held hostage because of their health... Ransoming the sick.... 

This kind of topic really get's my Dander Up as you may have noticed... sorry if I upset anyone, not intentional but when I see such abuses I wanna just go POP.... I have seen people die because they could not get $20 worth of antibiotics for political bull phooey (overseas) and to see that anywhere just boils.... [ Stepping off the box ] Maybe it's because I have put myself in the line of fire to protect & save folks and the resulting PTSD... dunno, gonna talk to my counsellor about that. Now I gotta go hide for a bit...


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

hoddedloki said:


> I didn't want to be the first to comment on the political angle, but the politics on this one are real. The CEO is the daughter of a democratic senator, and the company has donated a fair bit to the Clinton Foundation. And oddly enough, the FDA has required their competitors to pull the competing products from the market based on unsubstantiated claims. The main competitor (Sanofi) has donated significantly to republican campaigns. Guess they backed the wrong horse.
> 
> Nothing to see here citizen, Move along.
> 
> Loki


Sounds about right.
You donate to me, I'll donate right back


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

Simple work around.
Use a regular syringe and medicine. 
Costs about $10


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

AmericanStand said:


> Simple work around.
> Use a regular syringe and medicine.
> Costs about $10


Yup. the active ingredient in an epi pen is available in a single use ampule. A syringe costs under a dollar. All an epi pen is at it's core is a way for people who don't know how to do medical stuff to do medical stuff..... if a diabetic kid can be taught how to inject himself with insulin, a kid with severe allergies can be taught how to use a syringe too. Parents can be taught, teachers can be taught, and by golly the school nurse can be taught. 

If the child needs a layperson to use the medicine, I guarantee you that they'd need just as much time to figure out how to use an epi pen as they would to figure out how to use an ampule & a syringe. Both are very user friendly, and it helps that the general public has been watching shows like ER, Grey's Anatomy, NCIS, etc that show people drawing up liquid with a syringe. Really, I promise, it's not that hard.


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## wiscto (Nov 24, 2014)

MDKatie said:


> This is why government regulation is needed. When you control the market on a drug and price gouge, that is not ethical. Making a reasonable profit is ethical. Charging exorbitant prices for a life-or-death drug because you have the monopoly is shameful.


It is needed, but it can't be in the hands of a bureaucracy full of corrupt appointees whom the people cannot remove via election. This is crony capitalism at its worst. The FDA is working for BigPharma and there's no ignoring it now. And the corporations don't care if we react, because they know we will _overreact_ by removing the very thing the corporations had to spend billions of dollars to defeat. They won't have to spend those billions of dollars corrupting people anymore, and they'll still charge us whatever they want. Simple anti-monopoly laws... No you can't own the generics. No you may not have an unlimited patent, just like Coca Cola doesn't really have an unlimited patent on common ingredients.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

@bluemoonluck... have you ever tried to do something when going into anaphylactic shock ? You have no time to futz with anything... I have about 7 minutes, my youngest daughter has less than 2 minutes IF she's lucky. Just getting the injector out of the pouch then out of the container and pulling the safety off can be a lot, all on it's own... And now the damned schools won't let my daughter carry her epipen after allowing it for a decade. "Some child might take it and use it" is the lame excuse... Don't ask what I'll do if they screw up and she suffers as a result.

An Epihaler is fast as well but can be overdosed easily (especially kids). Epihalers have been discontinued as well... 

Syringe & Ampule, sure BUT you gotta have enough time to get the kit, setup & inject.

If you want to trust your life to some shmuck who watched something on TV and thinks they know how... Good Luck with that !


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

bluemoonluck said:


> Yup. the active ingredient in an epi pen is available in a single use ampule. A syringe costs under a dollar. All an epi pen is at it's core is a way for people who don't know how to do medical stuff to do medical stuff..... if a diabetic kid can be taught how to inject himself with insulin, a kid with severe allergies can be taught how to use a syringe too. Parents can be taught, teachers can be taught, and by golly the school nurse can be taught.
> 
> If the child needs a layperson to use the medicine, I guarantee you that they'd need just as much time to figure out how to use an epi pen as they would to figure out how to use an ampule & a syringe. Both are very user friendly, and it helps that the general public has been watching shows like ER, Grey's Anatomy, NCIS, etc that show people drawing up liquid with a syringe. Really, I promise, it's not that hard.


You're right.
And it's about 50 cents worth of epinephrine in there.
Lots of people don't realize what they CAN do until they put their mind to it.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

Syringes are not the solution and here is an article that discusses WHY and highlights alternatives that are available. http://www.livescience.com/55911-epipen-alternatives.html

Most critically:


> In one study, it took parents 142 seconds (2.4 minutes) to draw up a dose of epinephrine for infants using a syringe. (Since the dose of epinephrine in the EpiPen and Adrenaclick is premeasured, it doesn't need to be drawn up.)
> 
> Also, people should not premeasure a dose of epinephrine in a syringe (to have on hand in case of an allergic reaction), because epinephrine can degrade if it's exposed to light for a long time, according to the AAAAI.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

Why can't you get something like this kit?

https://www.zogomedical.com/autojec...ghO-0MuyJe7HtkMoZ9pASoxj-b23G2a3mgaAnrc8P8HAQ


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

coolrunnin said:


> Why can't you get something like this kit?
> 
> https://www.zogomedical.com/autojec...ghO-0MuyJe7HtkMoZ9pASoxj-b23G2a3mgaAnrc8P8HAQ


One would likely have to check with their doctor because if the kit isn't fully sealed the drug would degrade but it would be worth investigating.


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## Darren (May 10, 2002)

Look up the CEO Heather Bresch and her connections. Mylan's stock has fallen. Oddly enough she sold a bunch of stock with impeccable timing. Mr father is Senator Joe Manchin, Democrat scum from WV.


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## coolrunnin (Aug 28, 2010)

wr said:


> One would likely have to check with their doctor because if the kit isn't fully sealed the drug would degrade but it would be worth investigating.


Guess if you want perfect you need to spend the money, and not complain.


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## Nevada (Sep 9, 2004)

wr said:


> One would likely have to check with their doctor because if the kit isn't fully sealed the drug would degrade but it would be worth investigating.


Epinephrine has a fairly short shelf life, even when properly sealed. It should be clear, and be discarded if it starts to take on an amber color. I've seen it go bad in a few months during warm weather.

But single dose vials are probably sealed better than EpiPens because the EpiPens have to allow for a plunger mechanism. Single dose vials are sealed glass, and the top stem is snapped off immediately before use. They look like this:


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## Shrek (May 1, 2002)

A two pack of Adrenaclick auto injectors (if I recall the name correctly) are still under $125 through some pharmacies.

A neighbor has to use them for insect stings and has chosen the Adrenaclick over the Epipen brand because it has always been more cost effective since it was rolled out into the epinephrine auto injector market and his insurance lists it as their preferred brand.

He refilled his two pack Friday or Saturday at the same price tag he has been paying for the last few years.

When I asked him why there was such a hub bub over the epipen brand he said a lot of it has to do with like all vacuum bottles are now called "Thermos" or throw away snot rags are called "Kleenix" instead of tissue.

Knowing that he had to use them and a time or two I had to stick him in the leg when he couldn't breath , I asked him about it and that is when he told me that his pharmacist told him she didn't foresee any major change in the cost of his generic injectors except maybe some possible price decrease as more folks learn to ask for generic epinephrine auto injectors instead of asking for "Epipen".


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

coolrunnin said:


> Guess if you want perfect you need to spend the money, and not complain.



My son no longer needs them and quite honestly, I'm not of the opinion that the world is a perfect place. 

It was discovered that my son needed the pens only after his life was saved by a feedlot vet using veterinary grade medication but it's not something I'd personally recommend either. 

Beyond the pen, he required an ultra expensive inhaler with no genetic option.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

*! Mylan in Damage Control Mode !​*
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/m...pen-allergy-injection-102334551--finance.html

Too bad a couple of commenters never bothered to read the previous articles... Sure can tell who has no experience or understanding of this issue...


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## AmericanStand (Jul 29, 2014)

If you kept a syringe preloaded how long would the drug be good ?
Is there such a thing as a preloaded SEALED syringe ?


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## Tommyice (Dec 5, 2010)

AmericanStand said:


> If you kept a syringe preloaded how long would the drug be good ?
> Is there such a thing as a preloaded SEALED syringe ?


Can't answer the first part but yes there are preloaded sealsed syringes. Kinda. Flu vaccine (and pneumonia) come as a prefilled syringe. The needle gets added when you are ready to administer. The uniqueness of EpiPen is the AUTO injector.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

I sure wouldn't want to have to do any more than the autoinjector if I were in anaphylactic shock and I sure as heck wouldn't want my kid to try and use an ampule and syringe and take care not to hit any blood vessels while injecting herself while trying to stave off the panic of an anaphylactic reaction. Forget that.

I'll continue to raise my voice against the greed of this company.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

I find it hard to believe that it takes anyone over 2 minutes to draw up an injection from a single-use vial. Parents have to be taught how to use an epi-pen, and teaching them how to draw up the contents of a vial could be done too.

I've heard all sorts of stories over the years of the autoinjector in the epi-pens malfunctioning and leaving people in big trouble. The daughter of one of my mother's co-workers almost died when her epi-pen's autoinjector mechanism failed - the medicine was right there but she couldn't administer it to herself.

I agree that the epi-pen price hike is utter bull. There should be generic options. But faced with the choice of an expensive epi-pen that could fail or an inexpensive vial and syringe, I'd put the cheaper option that doesn't rely on an autoinjector in the hands of parents and nurses. For a minor child or someone with a very severe reaction and only a few seconds to act, I can see exclusively giving them an epi-pen. But then, if the injector fails, it's just as bad as not having one at all :shrug: 

If one of my kids had severe enough allergies to need an epi-pen I'd make sure they had BOTH the epi-pen and ampule/syringe on hand and I'd teach them to use both. That way if one of them fails they have a plan B at hand.


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## Lisa in WA (Oct 11, 2004)

bluemoonluck said:


> I find it hard to believe that it takes anyone over 2 minutes to draw up an injection from a single-use vial. Parents have to be taught how to use an epi-pen, and teaching them how to draw up the contents of a vial could be done too.
> 
> I've heard all sorts of stories over the years of the autoinjector in the epi-pens malfunctioning and leaving people in big trouble. The daughter of one of my mother's co-workers almost died when her epi-pen's autoinjector mechanism failed - the medicine was right there but she couldn't administer it to herself.
> 
> ...


after buying Eli pens for the past 28 years as the mom of a peanut allergic daughter, seeing many different allergists, pharmacists, having a family member in the high echelons of the pharmaceutical industry, and belonging to several boards of allergic people and their parents I've never heard of an epi pen malfunctioning so your post sent a chill through me.

So I've searched Google and posted on online forums and can't find anything about epi pens malfunctioning anywhere. Plenty about one epi pen not being enough, but nothing about the autoinjector not working 
Do you know of any place there is some kind of info on this because I can find nothing. You'd think with even one failure it would be on the web somewhere.

Auvi Q voluntarily recalled for unsubstantiated issues. I can't imagine given the anecdotal numbers of mechanical failure you're talking about, that epi pens wouldn't have been recalled.


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

LisaInN.Idaho said:


> after buying Eli pens for the past 28 years as the mom of a peanut allergic daughter, seeing many different allergists, pharmacists, having a family member in the high echelons of the pharmaceutical industry, and belonging to several boards of allergic people and their parents I've never heard of an epi pen malfunctioning so your post sent a chill through me.
> 
> So I've searched Google and posted on online forums and can't find anything about epi pens malfunctioning anywhere. Plenty about one epi pen not being enough, but nothing about the autoinjector not working
> Do you know of any place there is some kind of info on this because I can find nothing. You'd think with even one failure it would be on the web somewhere.
> ...


All I can tell you is what I've heard over the years :shrug: I can't imagine that anything on the planet works 100% the way it's supposed to 100% of the time.

My Mom's co-worker talked about her daughter's incident with it to a group of us at a party probably 5-6 years ago now. She said that her daughter was lucky that an ambulance was so close or she'd be dead, and that it was absolutely awful feeling to know that there was medication right there in her hand that she couldn't get into her kid  It was her opinion that it was worse to have an epi-pen not work than to not have one at all, because she had a false sense of security. She also said when they were in the ER immediately after the incident the ER doc mentioned that he'd seen it happen over the years, that it was a very rare occurrence but that hers was not the first case he'd seen of an epi-pen auto injector malfunctioning.

A friend of mine who is an ER nurse and I were talking about this whole epi-pen price hike maybe a week ago and we were talking about the pros and cons of sending people around with epi-pens vs ampules/syringes, and she mentioned that she had heard of rare occurrences over the years of an epi-pen auto injector not working. 

And when I was in vet tech school back in the late 90's the woman who taught the CPR/First AId course (she was a paramedic) told us when teaching us how to use an epi-pen that if the pen failed to work we needed to tell the 911 operator that so they could prepare the paramedics en route. I remember it because one of the gen ed kids taking the class with us had to carry an epi-pen and she completely wigged out when we went over that part, she had an out and out panic attack, because it had never occurred to her that her epi-pen might fail. 

I figure that most epi-pens are not used, they're manufactured and distributed and held onto by parents/patients/nurses/etc but they expire before they're needed. I have no idea how many epi-pens are actually used every year. But if we just pick a number out of thin air and say only 0% of them are used every year and of all the ones manufactured only 1% of them have faulty auto-injectors, it stands to reason that the odds of an epi pen being needed that is faulty is pretty slim. 

But really, nothing *always* works like it's supposed to. I find it easier to believe that the auto-injector sometimes doesn't work than I do that it always works without fail.


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## Steve_S (Feb 25, 2015)

I only ever had one fail and that was because we went down the side of a cliff and the container got busted, fortunately I had a backup in my kit. The Syringe solution for such is NOT PRACTICAL. Unless you have needed to use one and have such conditions that require you posses one, you simply cannot grasp the issue, through no fault of your own.

There has been crud posted in this thread... I won't point any of it out, it's pointless. ALWAYS CHECK WITH YOUR ALERGIST & DOCTOR - apply salt to ALL comments from the internet. A proper & GOOD allergist will not let you leave the office without first trying it once your given your first prescription. This is done usually top allow YOU to experience what it does and the effects so you do not panic when the adrenaline gives you that kick (it can scare people who are unprepared). They also should review procedures every time you get your prescription renewed.

Some other companies have stepped up now and moving forward with Epipens of their own, so soon there will be more choices and options and hopefully more realistic pricing.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Bumped this for an update. I heard tonight CVS is selling one for $109 with a $100 coupon.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/con...d-epipen-while-cvs-offers-generic-100-n706171


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## Iddee (Sep 25, 2005)

This may be even better.....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...ill-soon-hit-the-market/ar-AAm2cbL?li=BBnbfcN


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