# Active shooter in West Texas on interstate



## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Please advise anyone you might know in the area. Odessa, I think.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Two shooters in two vehicles possible.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

They want the word out. tell them to shelter.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Gold Toyota and a mail truck.Midland as well


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

I get bills in the mail all the time, never shot at them!


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

Report from police. One shooter and he is dead.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> I get bills in the mail all the time, never shot at them!


I put my neighbor's address on all my bills.
Now his wife wants to know who he took to the De De Mao Buffet last month.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> I put my neighbor's address on all my bills.
> Now his wife wants to know who he took to the De De Mao Buffet last month.


You bad boy!


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## doozie (May 21, 2005)

Just read 5 dead and 20 injured.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

5 dead. At least 7 of the 21 shot in critical condition. 4 of those shot are cops.


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## blanket (May 28, 2013)

ya scooped that one


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Just heard about this. Thanks for the heads up.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

The shooter is dead too.
It all started as a traffic stop gone bad.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Bearfootfarm said:


> The shooter is dead too.
> It all started as a traffic stop gone bad.


I've long supported banning traffic stops.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

painterswife said:


> 5 dead. At least 7 of the *21 shot* in critical condition. *4 of those shot are cops*.


Do you have confirmation of your "facts"?
This says different:

https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/seth-ator/



> Seven victims were killed in Saturday’s rampage, according to federal officials. More than 20 others were injured, several critically. *Three law enforcement officers who were injured*, including the state trooper who was shot during the traffic stop, are expected to recover.


https://gossiponthis.com/2019/09/01/seth-ator-photo-odell-midland-texas-shooting-suspect/


> A total of eight people, including the gunman, were killed in the shooting rampage. At least another 22 people were injured, but *it wasn’t immediately clear if all of the injuries were from gunshots.*


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> 5 dead. At least 7 of the 21 shot in critical condition. 4 of those shot are cops.


The Odessa murders were certainly terrible but nothing out of the ordinary in our major cities. Why don't you post a thread about the weekly killings in our cities? Why does the national press ignore them too? Is it because the murders are committed with handguns and doesn't fit into the left's evil rifle narrative? Here's the stats last week in Chicago. Notice how Blacks are way over represented in both assailants and victims. Why isn't BLM demanding something be done? Just curious.

Murdered in Chicago.... 
Last Week’s Totals (8/25 – 8/31)
Shot & Killed:.......12
Shot & Wounded:..51
Total Shot:...........63
Total Homicides:...14

Year to Date 2019
Shot & Killed:..........318
Shot & Wounded:...1558
Total Shot:............1876
Total Homicides:......347

2019 Race of Victim/Assailant
Race..............Victim Assailant
Black...............252.......17
Hispanic............36.........4
White/Other.......13.........1


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

poppy said:


> The Odessa murders were certainly terrible but nothing out of the ordinary in our major cities. Why don't you post a thread about the weekly killings in our cities? Why does the national press ignore them too? Is it because the murders are committed with handguns and doesn't fit into the left's evil rifle narrative? Here's the stats last week in Chicago. Notice how Blacks are way over represented in both assailants and victims. Why isn't BLM demanding something be done? Just curious.
> 
> Murdered in Chicago....
> Last Week’s Totals (8/25 – 8/31)
> ...


You might not have taken the time to notice, I only posted about an ongoing situation. No opinions, no judgements, no sermons. Nothing since then. Does that matter to you or will your judgement of me continue?


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

painterswife said:


> You might not have taken the time to notice, I only posted about an ongoing situation. No opinions, no judgements, no sermons. Nothing since then. Does that matter to you or will your judgement of me continue?


I don't need to judge you. There are 2 things you can be counted on to start a thread about. One is anything about a judge striking down anything Trump does. The other is a mass shooting. Your reasons are obvious.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

poppy said:


> I don't need to judge you. There are 2 things you can be counted on to start a thread about. One is anything about a judge striking down anything Trump does. The other is a mass shooting. Your reasons are obvious.


You judged, we can count on that.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

poppy said:


> The Odessa murders were certainly terrible but nothing out of the ordinary in our major cities. Why don't you post a thread about the weekly killings in our cities? Why does the national press ignore them too? Is it because the murders are committed with handguns and doesn't fit into the left's evil rifle narrative? Here's the stats last week in Chicago. Notice how Blacks are way over represented in both assailants and victims. Why isn't BLM demanding something be done? Just curious.
> 
> Murdered in Chicago....
> Last Week’s Totals (8/25 – 8/31)
> ...



That chart, and the victims contained in it, deserve a bump.
Pushed by the administration to do something about it or the feds would show up, the mayor of Chicago politely told them to "Mind their own business".
That was maybe 2 years ago, and you see that the pattern just continues.
Little reporting, no changes.
It isn't sexy, and it doesn't fit the demographic to get the intended results by the influencers.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

GTX63 said:


> That chart, and the victims contained in it, deserve a bump.
> Pushed by the administration to do something about it of the feds would show up, the mayor of Chicago politely told them to "Mind their own business".
> That was maybe 2 years ago, and you see that the pattern just continues.
> Little reporting, no changes.
> It isn't sexy, and it doesn't fit the demographic to get the intended results by the influencers.


And we all know which party controls and has controlled Chicago since, like forever.......
Not a political statement here in GC - rather a statement of fact.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

The guy in Odessa was apparently just a wacko. They are saying he was fired from his truck driving job the morning of the shooting. A picture of his house is on the site and looks to have a homemade deer blind on top. A neighbor lady said he had no water or electricity and she would see him sitting in his car in cold weather. He would also get in the thing on top of his house and shoot animals in his yard at night. She said he once threatened her with a rifle and she called the cops but they never showed up because GPS doesn't work out there and it is hard to find.

https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/Odessa-Midland-Shooter-was-fired-from-his-job-the--559108101.html


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Wolf mom said:


> And we all know which party controls and has controlled Chicago since, like forever.......
> Not a political statement here in GC - rather a statement of fact.


Good point. The gun control party runs the place and has the strictest gun laws in the state.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Other gun deaths (except for Chicago) always seem to be left out of research of many posters. And others are compelled to add the statistics of other types of deaths into any thread that remotely references guns. 

So, here are some statistics (both sites are highly fact based on mediabiasfactcheck.com) from total gun violence in America: https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-america/

2017 Fatal car crashes (including drunk driving) https://safer-america.com/2018-fatal-car-crash-statistics-in-the-u-s-a/

The yearly totals of gun deaths and fatal car crashes are very similar. Yet there are are millions more cars and drivers (that driver every day) than than there are gun owners. Could that be because there are requirements for someone to own and drive a car?

Food for thought...


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

I don't know anything about it, but I think the cheese slid off this boy's cracker


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> The yearly totals of gun deaths and fatal car crashes are very similar. Yet there are are millions more cars and drivers (that driver every day) than than there are gun owners. Could that be because there are requirements for someone to own and drive a car?


Nope.

There are far more requirements to legally own a firearm.
There are very few requirements to buy alcohol.

Most of the "gun deaths" are suicides and justifiable shootings.
None of the drunk driver deaths are justifiable.

Gun deaths are lower now than they were decades ago, even though there are many millions more guns, and more people who carry them every day.

It's just another anti-gun thread in GC, like so many others that came before it.



Irish Pixie said:


> *Food for thought*...


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

poppy said:


> The guy in Odessa was apparently just a wacko. They are saying he was fired from his truck driving job the morning of the shooting. A picture of his house is on the site and looks to have a homemade deer blind on top. A neighbor lady said he had no water or electricity and she would see him sitting in his car in cold weather. He would also get in the thing on top of his house and shoot animals in his yard at night. She said he once threatened her with a rifle and she called the cops but they never showed up because GPS doesn't work out there and it is hard to find.
> 
> https://www.cbs7.com/content/news/Odessa-Midland-Shooter-was-fired-from-his-job-the--559108101.html


For them to have a difficult time finding the address and taking a bit longer is one thing. Not finding it or not showing up should have a serious effect on a few peoples job. GPS does work there. No trees or other satellite blocking objects to restrict it.
People got around there for years before GPS. Used to live in the area.


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## mreynolds (Jan 1, 2015)

Redlands Okie said:


> For them to have a difficult time finding the address and taking a bit longer is one thing. Not finding it or not showing up should have a serious effect on a few peoples job. GPS does work there. No trees or other satellite blocking objects to restrict it.
> People got around there for years before GPS. Used to live in the area.


Been there many times myself. The GPS story is a cop out. 

No pun intended.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> Other gun deaths (except for Chicago) always seem to be left out of research of many posters. And others are compelled to add the statistics of other types of deaths into any thread that remotely references guns.
> 
> So, here are some statistics
> 
> *Food for thought*...


Some will rot your brain.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

Redlands Okie said:


> For them to have a difficult time finding the address and taking a bit longer is one thing. Not finding it or not showing up should have a serious effect on a few peoples job. GPS does work there. No trees or other satellite blocking objects to restrict it.
> People got around there for years before GPS. Used to live in the area.


GPS works here too, except where it doesn't. It's lead me and others to the wrong address many times. I went to check a house a while back and used GPS. Took me out in the country a few miles and when it told me I had reached my destination, I was sitting on a hill surrounded by farm fields with no house in sight. Finally tracked the house down almost 2 miles away. The guy living there said GPS doesn't work to find his house. I hear that a lot.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> Some will rot your brain.


I find it's usually the half baked food that's the worst.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

I'm not sure why being concerned about gun violence or drunk driving is an issue.
As a society we should be concerned about both.
What we have been doing and what we're doing now isn't working.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

SRSLADE said:


> I'm not sure why being concerned about gun violence or drunk driving is an issue.
> As a society we should be concerned about both.
> What we have been doing and what we're doing now isn't working.


What I see in common with both issues, as well as others, is our society has not being taught respect for others. I can't put a finger on only one reason for this but between Spocks book, lack of religion, the "sexuall revolution", and government social programs relieving people of the need to be responsible for themselves...... here is where we find ourselves.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

“What we are doing isn’t working.”

Hmm. Yes. For CENTURIES.

I don’t expect significant change.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> I'm not sure why being concerned about gun violence or drunk driving is an issue.
> As a society we should be concerned about both.
> What we have been doing and what we're doing now isn't working.


What I do works great


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> “What we are doing isn’t working.”
> 
> Hmm. Yes. For CENTURIES.
> 
> I don’t expect significant change.


I'd say since the beginning. Humans are innately evil, and innately good, and forever conflicted.


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> Other gun deaths (except for Chicago) always seem to be left out of research of many posters. And others are compelled to add the statistics of other types of deaths into any thread that remotely references guns.
> 
> So, here are some statistics (both sites are highly fact based on mediabiasfactcheck.com) from total gun violence in America: https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-america/
> 
> ...


Nobody tries to take the cars away from everybody else every time someone uses a car to kill.
Why is that?


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## Cornhusker (Mar 20, 2003)

SRSLADE said:


> I'm not sure why being concerned about gun violence or drunk driving is an issue.
> As a society we should be concerned about both.
> What we have been doing and what we're doing now isn't working.


Maybe we need to pass a whole bunch of new laws?
Maybe disarming potential victims will help?
Maybe making it harder for law abiding people to obtain guns and ammo will stop crazy people from doing crazy things?


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

For y’all with no sense of humor, my sarcasm detector just pegged out.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

Here ya go...
https://www.ibtimes.com/skulls-foun...-brutality-against-rebellious-village-2819211

They just didn’t have Facebook and Twitter and the media to stir up folks.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Cornhusker said:


> Maybe we need to pass a whole bunch of new laws?
> Maybe disarming potential victims will help?
> Maybe making it harder for law abiding people to obtain guns and ammo will stop crazy people from doing crazy things?



Lol, I felt my skull cramp trying to contort my brain to think like that. Very nice indeed,,,,


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

40 million Americans will go hunting this fall.
Anyone want to speculate on the number of mass shootings that will take place?
I will- 100%, if they are any good at it.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Your link gave me an idea. 

The skulls are a sign for the ruling-class, in which the severed heads of four politicians (of your own choosing) were erected as a warning display from the common people.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

GTX63 said:


> 40 million Americans will go hunting this fall.
> Anyone want to speculate on the number of mass shootings that will take place?
> I will- 100%, if they are any good at it.


Is a mass good to eat? How do you cook it?


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Cornhusker said:


> Nobody tries to take the cars away from everybody else every time someone uses a car to kill.
> Why is that?


The gun phobes would have you become a criminal while you relax in your lazyboy, and you won't have to do a thing for it.
Meanwhile, the intentional criminals, well, they just gonna keep on criminalin...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> Is a mass good to eat? How do you cook it?


The cooks say it is an acquired taste.
I'm pretty sure it is shoved down your throat raw but it is supposed to be healthy for everyone else.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

And again, I'm not arguing about an issue that will be resolved in the voting booth. I'm entitled to my opinion, and I posted information that I feel pertains to the topic at hand. 

Y'all (  ) have a wonderful day.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Irish Pixie said:


> And again, I'm not arguing about an issue that will be resolved in the voting booth. I'm entitled to my opinion, and I posted information that I feel pertains to the topic at hand.
> 
> Y'all (  ) have a wonderful day.


You too!


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

It's a case of those that won't govern themselves.
Gun ownership is a responsibility to yourselves but also to others.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> I'm not sure why being concerned about gun violence or drunk driving is an issue.
> As a society we should be concerned about both.
> What we have been doing and *what we're doing now isn't working*.


That's why calling for more of the same is pointless.

I don't think "concern" is the main motivation though.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

The shooter had a police record but nothing violent. They did say he failed a firearms background check in the past but did not say, or probably know, where he got this gun. He was fired from his job that morning and then got pulled over by the cops. He apparently had a bit of an anger issue already and he likely just flipped out. May have even wanted to die but couldn't kill himself so he chose suicide by cop and figured he would do something bad enough to make sure they killed him. Who knows what goes on in someone's mind? I can't even understand my wife at times.


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## Alice In TX/MO (May 10, 2002)

As a society... hmm. That’s an interesting thought. 

My mind is rattling around on that. 

Exactly what does that mean to you? 

U.S. citizens? World population? The gang members in Chicago?


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

HDRider said:


> Is a mass good to eat? *How do you cook it*?


In a *large* pot, with lots of stirring.


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

Irish Pixie said:


> And again, I'm not arguing about an issue that will be resolved in the voting booth. I'm entitled to my opinion, and I posted information that I feel pertains to the topic at hand.
> 
> Y'all (  ) have a wonderful day.


What laws do you think would be helpful?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

wr said:


> What laws do you think would be helpful?


I went down that long rode, hand in hand with her. We stopped the car at nowhere. I had to hitch my way back


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

wr said:


> What laws do you think would be helpful?


That question always goes unanswered because there is no answer. Law's simply do not work. Murder has been against the law since forever but people determined to kill someone still do it. The same applies to any other possible law. This shooter could have just as easily plowed his car into a crowd of people. What laws would stop that? Many people are bludgeoned to death every year, perhaps mostly by people who don't have a gun. Murder has been part of life ever since Cain murdered Abel and won't go away anytime soon.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> Other gun deaths (except for Chicago) always seem to be left out of research of many posters. And others are compelled to add the statistics of other types of deaths into any thread that remotely references guns.
> 
> So, here are some statistics (both sites are highly fact based on mediabiasfactcheck.com) from total gun violence in America: https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-america/
> 
> ...


While Everytown’s statistics may be _factual_, I’m going to ask you to really think about whether they’re saying anything meaningful, and if it’s free of bias. 

Here’s just one example, but I’d be more than happy to put others up for discussion as well:

Everytown

Nearly two-thirds of gun deaths are suicides.5 The U.S. gun suicide rate is 10 times that of other high-income countries.6
Access to a gun increases the risk of death by suicide by three times.7 Gun suicides are concentrated in states with high rates of gun ownership.8”
Most people who attempt suicide do not die—unless they use a gun. Across all suicide attempts not involving a firearm, less than five percent will result in death.9 But for gun suicides, those statistics are flipped: approximately 85 percent of gun suicide attempts end in death.10
Note #6 points to a study published in the American Journal of Medicine:
https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(15)01030-X/fulltext

The list of other “high-income” countries included in the study were:
Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Korea, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom

Reading through the study, most of the statistical findings were presented as _United States = x ; Everyone else in-aggregate = y. _Fine; they wanted to compare the US to an average. 

For some reason, though, the study (and Everytown) wanted to glom onto the US’ higher rate of suicide-by-firearm. *The data in the study, though, shows the US suicide rate, per capita, at 12.4, with everyone else in-aggregate at 15. *

The US had a statistically-significantly *lower* rate of suicide than the other countries’ average, despite having 10x as many suicides-by-gun than the aggregate. Is that part supposed to be shocking to anyone? If so, consider the gun ownership rights in that aggregate of countries, and ask yourself again.

But, more importantly, take the suicide rates (US=12.4 ; Aggregate=15), and consider it with Everytown’s last point: suicide attempts are 85% successful with a gun, but only 5% successful otherwise.

According to the study, just over 50% (6.3 : 6.1 = 12.4) of the US’ suicides are committed with a gun, while just under 6% (0.8 : 14.2 = 15) of the aggregate’s suicides are committed with a gun.

Everytown presented the stats from the studies cited above, in the way that they did (_as did the study cited in #6; read their final conclusion, the bias is palpable_) to spark the implication that the US has this endemic problem, and that removing guns could eliminate it.

They’re counting on their audience not to do the math in their heads- but we don’t have to. We have calculators, and a desire to be honest with ourselves- right?

If guns were eliminated from the equation, and those Americans who committed suicide-by-gun instead used the “5% effective” other-methods, then the US would have a per-capita suicide rate of just 6.4.
(6.3*0.05)+6.1=6.415

Take a look at the developed-world rankings in any by-country suicide rate chart (example below) and ask yourself if that even sounds realistic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

But, even more revealing, consider it the other way: if the aggregate nations had access to guns like the US, and over half of their suicide attempts that are currently committed with “5% effective” methods suddenly switched to the “85% effective” method, then the aggregate of nations listed above would have a per-capita suicide rate of 121.5:
(((14.2/2)/0.05)*0.85)+0.8 = 121.5

Considering that the highest per-capita suicide rates hover around 30, do you believe that US-levels of guns in the “aggregate of high-income” countries would elevate their rate to 121.5?


Bottom line: While, taken individually, the facts that Everytown is presenting may be “accurate”, do you really believe they are telling you anything meaningful when they say that the US has a rate of suicide-by-gun that is 10x higher than the average of other high-income nations?


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## Redlands Okie (Nov 28, 2017)

Alice In TX/MO said:


> “What we are doing isn’t working.”
> 
> Hmm. Yes. For CENTURIES.
> 
> I don’t expect significant change.


That is probably one of the best I have read on this thread. Lots of old problems in this world. Wonder why people expect life to be easy with no unpleasant issues.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

because everyone gets a trophy


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

SRSLADE said:


> I'm not sure why being concerned about gun violence or drunk driving is an issue.
> As a society we should be concerned about both.
> What we have been doing and what we're doing now isn't working.




….and it never will, but go ahead and help take out our freedoms one by one in the name of safety and protection, until one day it is secure as a prison....where there is still rape,murder,suicide,drugs and weapons manufacturing.


Its the bad people, not inanimate objects, how about we work on that, instead of restricting the 99% because of the 1%...….


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> It's a case of those that* won't govern themselves.
> Gun ownership is a responsibility* to yourselves but also to others.


The overwhelming majority of gun owners never shoot anyone at all.
It's disingenuous to pretend "gun owners" are the problem.

The conversation *always* reverts to "gun control" when that's been proven to not work at all. 

Lawful gun owners could help prevent many of these "mass shootings" if they were simply allowed the freedom to do so.

The anti-gunners "solution" is to create more gun free zones and hope the killers will obey those silly little signs.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> The U.S. gun suicide rate is 10 times that of other high-income countries.6


I guess they never heard of Japan.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

Irish Pixie said:


> And again, I'm not arguing about an issue that will be resolved in the voting booth. I'm entitled to my opinion, and I posted information that I feel pertains to the topic at hand.


Was it just a coincidence your "source" was an organization whose sole purpose is to promote the banning of firearms?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Bad people do bad things, new laws won't change it, but political parties thrive on it. If you will just vote for them, their new and improved version of reality will be all cookies and coolaid. And when it doesn't work, they will come up with an even better plan. It never ends, new laws, less freedom, higher taxes, more social programs, there will always be a new set of problems for the political elite to save us from. Meanwhile they fly around in government jets, with armed bodyguards, making money for themselves and their friends. Who would want to change a great system like that?

I can't change it, and neither can anyone else. People thrive on turmoil and strife, it is a natural condition. If they don't have it, they will invent it. The crusades, the inquisition, settling the new world, two world wars, Korean war, Vietnam war, Iraq. They all served their purpose, to thin the herd, make money, and most important to make some political figure look good.

I know that it is selfish, but I really don't care what people do to each other. If there is one thing we do not have shortage of, it is people. 

P.S. When you come for mine, bring yours.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Bearfootfarm said:


> I guess they never heard of Japan.


That was my initial thought, as well, but you’ll notice they chose to focus on “_gun suicide rates_”... and then compare it to a list of countries with extremely low rates of gun ownership. Look at their quote again- “the US gun suicide rate is 10 times...”

That’s why I asked the question of whether @Irish Pixie thought Everytown’s stats were really saying anything meaningful.


According to “studies” that Everytown chose to cite (for _whatever_ reason they chose them), the US has a lot of suicides committed with guns, and guns are 17 times more effective than other methods... but, still, the US’ suicide rate is significantly lower than an aggregate of “similar” countries (they did choose to leave that last bit out of their website, though- you have to dig pretty far into one of their chosen studies to find it).

What does Everytown’s cherry-picked and strategically arranged statistics teach us?

Absolutely nothing.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

_When you come for mine, bring yours._

Today's pithy wisdom thanks to @muleskinner2 

BTW - How's your boy?


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

HDRider said:


> BTW - How's your boy?


Working me into the ground.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

muleskinner2 said:


> Working me into the ground.


Good job old son..


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

It's not guns that need controlling.
It's the ANGER.
Many people seem to hate themselves and others around them.
Doctors have prescribed drugs that help some and make others worse.
Political rancor is at an all new high. Not helpful.
We need to help each other lead meaningful lives. I've had some meaningful handups in my life and some real harsh knockdowns.Through it all, the good outweighs the crap.
ANGER SUCKS.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> It's not guns that need controlling.
> It's the ANGER.
> Many people seem to hate themselves and others around them.
> Doctors have prescribed drugs that help some and make others worse.
> ...


Forgive me for saying, you seem angry.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

As an update, so far this Labor Day weekend in Chicago 37 people have been shot and 7 killed. Seen anything about it on national news?

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/...r-day-weekend-shootings-gun-violence-homicide


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

Maybe they are just waiting until midnight and then they'll run the totals.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

I see Fox News did briefly mention it a 15 year old boy is the latest fatality


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Forgive me for saying, you seem angry.


Thank you. I consider it more of a conviction than an anger.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> It's not guns that need controlling.
> It's the ANGER.


But the left only offers more gun restrictions.



SRSLADE said:


> We need to help each other lead meaningful lives.


How's that working so far?


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> But the left only offers more gun restrictions.
> 
> 
> How's that working so far?


One offers gun grabs and the other offers nothing.
No matter what we think change is happening and it will do so with or without us.
I for one would like a say in how that goes down.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> One offers gun grabs and *the other offers nothing*.


That's not true at all.
The gun owners have lost in every "compromise" to date.

They have offered to provide armed security but the left wants to fight that too.



SRSLADE said:


> No matter what we think change is happening and it will do so with or without us.
> *I for one would like a say* in how that goes down.


You can have a say in what you do.
You don't get to control anyone else.

All the "change" so far has done no real good in regards to stopping criminals.
Let's try the other direction for a while.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

Bearfootfarm said:


> That's not true at all.
> The gun owners have lost in every "compromise" to date.
> 
> They have offered to provide armed security but the left wants to fight that too.
> ...


Time will tell.


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## poppy (Feb 21, 2008)

SRSLADE said:


> It's not guns that need controlling.
> It's the ANGER.
> Many people seem to hate themselves and others around them.
> Doctors have prescribed drugs that help some and make others worse.
> ...


Nothing wrong with helping someone needing help but we are WAY beyond that. We now expect nothing from anybody. If you screw up, you are a victim who deserves no blame. Kids can't do well in school? Lower the standards and don't honor those who do well. Don't know what sex you are? You poor victim. People should just accept you as whatever sex you want to be. Have trouble taking tests at school? We'll give you extra time to do the test and a safe space to study in. Don't want to work? We'll promise you a guaranteed minimum income without working. You have cancer? Someone else is responsible for it. File a lawsuit. We have harmed society greatly by not demanding responsibility from everyone. Forget helping each other live meaningful lives. Let's stop preventing others from living meaningful lives.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

SRSLADE said:


> It's not guns that need controlling.
> It's the ANGER.
> Many people seem to hate themselves and others around them.
> Doctors have prescribed drugs that help some and make others worse.
> ...


I’m not denying that it takes a lot of anger to cause someone to kill, but I don’t think that’s the nexus, either. 

I think the continental divide, as it were, is that people now think so much of themselves, and so little of others, that it’s easier for their anger to manifest as homicide. 

If there is something unique to our current situation, it’s that people are no longer ashamed to let their feelings so traumatically and violently impact the lives of others. 

Narcissism is the sickness.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

I'd say the past is a better arbiter than the future, and no politician will ever fix this.
There is that thing about those not learning from history are doomed to repeat it that keeps getting ignored.
To say one side offers gun grabs and the other side offers nothing indicates to me you are listening selectively. 
Gun owners are continually battered with the "common sense" angle to leverage a position; what "common sense" reasoning do you believe law abiding, innocent, tax paying members of this nation should be responding to that would prevent a crime?
I think if one boils that onion for a little while, they may realize that onions aren't part of the recipe for pie.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I’m not denying that it takes a lot of anger to cause someone to kill, but I don’t think that’s the nexus, either.
> 
> I think the continental divide, as it were, is that people now think so much of themselves, and so little of others, that it’s easier for their anger to manifest as homicide.
> 
> ...


Anger isn't always the mechanism. I've known people able to kill with the same emotion as I would shooting a rabbit.
I do agree about narcissism. It is a drug fed to the populace and encouraged.


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## shawnlee (Apr 13, 2010)

There will always be bad people,.....but I think the frequency has easy to spot symptoms...….causes.


Societal,...not sure that's the right word...… people feel pinched off,hemmed in, bottled down, like a number, a cog in the wheel.....like its a world going no where and all contributions to said world are wastes of their lives.

Top that off with healthy dose of media division propaganda and you have the makings of sending a person off the edge with nothing to lose.


Especially kids who are fed a disillusioned skewed vision of the world.....


Kids are easily impressionable, especially when their fears are fed,...….some people never grow out of it.


I have seen kids/adults alike whipped into a frenzy watching the news from both sides,...…..sad thing is, most of the time it will never have anything to do with them. I ask them why it matters, will they ever do that, the answer is no, have you ever had that happen to you, the answer is no,.....would you even know or care if the media did not blow it up,....same answer,....no.


Just like all the restrictions have the adults hemmed in, so are the youths...……..anyone who is around/over 50 do a overlay of what you did as a kid with what they can do now,....you will find it all restricted,banned or worse yet, liable to get them labeled terrorists for life or sexual predators.

Now recall how restricted you felt as a youth with basically no restrictions and think how the youth feel now,...….every single minute detail has been locked in and defined for them, every action has a label,....just talking will get you labeled a cyber bully, racist,homophobic etc etc etc etc...…….a normal kids conversation from school 30 or 40 years ago with result in hate crime charges/expelled and mandatory counseling and Zoloft. 

Pull the fire alarm and moon the other team,...now you are a terrorist and a sexual predator.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

GTX63 said:


> osition; what "common sense" reasoning do you believe law abiding, innocent, tax paying members of this nation should be responding to that would prevent a crime?


My common sense tells me,they do not have to do anything. The other side says, "If your'e not part of the solution you must be part of the problem."
Other than locking up ones guns when not in use and practicing personal safety, Not much more you should do.
I love the thought of a person that's honest, goes to church,pays taxes and all of the other fluffy stuff. Does it really exist? Sounds kind of mayberryish.
Only we would know and if you have your doubts just listen to us crow. It must be true, we said so.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> One offers gun grabs and the other offers nothing.
> No matter what we think change is happening and it will do so with or without us.
> I for one would like a say in how that goes down.


I offer to not shoot anyone except in self defense, and only then if no other course of action is available.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Time will tell.


Sadly, I agree with you, the 2nd has been eroded, and will probably be washed away by people like you, with conviction.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> My common sense tells me,they do not have to do anything. The other side says, "If your'e not part of the solution you must be part of the problem."
> Other than locking up ones guns when not in use and practicing personal safety, Not much more you should do.
> I love the thought of a *person that's honest, goes to church,pays taxes* and all of the other fluffy stuff. Does it really exist? Sounds kind of mayberryish.
> Only we would know and if you have your doubts just listen to us crow. It must be true, we said so.


Way more of that than you seem to think.

I have always thought evil and good exist in equal measure.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Sadly, I agree with you, the 2nd has been eroded, and will probably be washed away by people like you, with conviction.


I have a feeling you don't know people like me.
You paint with a broad brush.


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## SLADE (Feb 20, 2004)

HDRider said:


> Way more of that than you seem to think.
> 
> I have always thought evil and good exist in equal measure.


Are you crowing?


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> I have a feeling *you don't know people like me*.
> You paint with a broad brush.


Hard to say for sure. I only know you by what you say and post. To that end, I do know people like you.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

SRSLADE said:


> Are you crowing?


Just a counter to your downer.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

Irish Pixie said:


> *And again, I'm not arguing about an issue that will be resolved in the voting booth.* I'm entitled to my opinion, and I posted information that I feel pertains to the topic at hand.
> 
> Y'all (  ) have a wonderful day.


There are several that either didn't understand this post, or who seem to be baiting me for a response... Just my opinion, of course.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> “_gun suicide rates_”


I have never heard of a gun committing suicide. Of course, I have never heard of a gun committing a mass shooting either, but, they certainly get blamed for them a lot.


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> There are several that either didn't understand this post, or who seem to be baiting me for a response... Just my opinion, of course.


And, so it would appear that there are some who either don't understand the difference between discussion and "argument", or who seem to prefer to just drop rhetorical grenades and walk away.


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## Irish Pixie (May 14, 2002)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> And, so it would appear that there are some who either don't understand the difference between discussion and "argument", or who seem to prefer to just drop rhetorical grenades and walk away.


We will never find common ground. Ever. So it's argument, and I don't care if you agree with that or not. 

I prefer to say I gave my opinion, and _explicitly stated_ I'm not going to argue. I think I was completely clear. 

Have a wonderful day. I will.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

SRSLADE said:


> I have a feeling you don't know people like me.
> *You paint with a broad brush*.


As do you.



Irish Pixie said:


> We will never find common ground. Ever. *So it's argument*, and I don't care if you agree with that or not.
> 
> I prefer to say I gave my opinion, and _explicitly stated_ *I'm not going to argue*. I think I was completely clear.


You're always clear to us.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Since it's almost always men that commit these crimes, rape, mass shootings, murders etc I think I have a solution. It's obviously due to testosterone so how about we just nip it in the bud and castrate all males at birth....No more testosterone... Problem solved! That would prolly reduce the number of immigrants solving that problem too.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Since it's almost always men that commit these crimes, rape, mass shootings, murders etc I think I have a solution. It's obviously due to testosterone so how about we just nip it in the bud and castrate all males at birth....No more testosterone... Problem solved! That would prolly reduce the number of immigrants solving that problem too.


NO!
I don't like the 'Nipping' idea!
'Nipping' sounds BAD! 

Now I'm going to shrivel up every time I hear 'Nip It', Or see a picture of Barney Fife!


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## muleskinner2 (Oct 7, 2007)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Since it's almost always men that commit these crimes, rape, mass shootings, murders etc I think I have a solution. It's obviously due to testosterone so how about we just nip it in the bud and castrate all males at birth....No more testosterone... Problem solved! That would prolly reduce the number of immigrants solving that problem too.


Don't give them any ideas.


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## Farmerga (May 6, 2010)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Since it's almost always men that commit these crimes, rape, mass shootings, murders etc I think I have a solution. It's obviously due to testosterone so how about we just nip it in the bud and castrate all males at birth....No more testosterone... Problem solved! That would prolly reduce the number of immigrants solving that problem too.


Sure, round up everyone who hasn't raped anyone and cut off their man parts. (most rapes are done by men, most often using the male assault organ.)


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Irish Pixie said:


> We will never find common ground. Ever. So it's argument, and I don't care if you agree with that or not.
> 
> I prefer to say I gave my opinion, and _explicitly stated_ I'm not going to argue. I think I was completely clear.
> 
> Have a wonderful day. I will.


I will point out that this is a forum, not your blog. If your goal is to post whatever articles and opinions you like, without the annoyance of anyone interacting with you or your opinions, you might find a personal blog to be a more satisfying experience.

I don’t understand the need to predispose the interaction into antagonistic terms. There is a difference between a discussion and an argument, and openly asking someone a question is not “_baiting them for a response_.”

We have found common ground in the past, and I continue to be open-minded. If you prefer to post loaded information, and then walk away from any interaction over it, that is your prerogative, but you cannot reasonably expect the holes, bias and/or misinformation in your articles to not be _discussed_ by other participants, nor to not be asked questions about it.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

Farmerga said:


> Sure, round up everyone who hasn't raped anyone and cut off their man parts. (most rapes are done by men, most often using the male assault organ.)


There ya go, kinda like what some would have us do about these shooters.


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

This will take research, so I'm sure the very idea will be jumped on by deniers seven ways from Sunday....

We, as a first world population, have been 'Social Engineered'.
It's not a new idea, been around for a couple milennia, but was scientifically defined & refined in the early 1900s, and made a lot more effective by mass media where the 'Engineers' were in our ears/eyes through radio & TV much of the day. 
The steering message is simply more effective the more times it's heard.

Now keep in mind, any 'Science' can be used for (relative) 'Good', or 'Bad'.
The steering can be positive, or negative (or even fail) on the 'Subjects' in the experiment.
I ran into a BUNCH of this in the military during the 80s, Reagan & Bush I were involved in a BUNCH of psychologic warfare operations (psy-ops) all around the world while I was in,
The difference being I was on the side doing the steering and it was explained to us.
(Which sparked my interest in psychology)

There will be (for lack of better, more accurate terms) a 'Far Left', a 'Center/Middle' and a 'Far Right', anyone that watched TV or heard a radio has heard these terms repeated over and over... For a reason rather than describing anything specific.

The idea is to divide, a decided 'Adversary' is easier to defeat than a united one.
The 'One America' campaigns during wartime, particularly during the world wars is an example.
The tobacco companies paid huge fees to get smoking in general, and their brand in specific into movies before TV was around, and it worked.

This went even further after WWII, with the BIG LIES.
"Better Living Through Chemistry" campaigns, 
In politics, it was "Capitalism" was the opposite of Communism, while one is an economic model, the other a system of government.
(The opposite of Communism is Democracy)
When repeated loud enough, long enough, people believed the big lie... (And still do)

These social engineers also noticed the 'Go Along' effect (used by con men for centuries).
You tell two truths,
Example: 
People don't have freedoms under Communism. (True)
People should be free to choose. (True)
Capitalism will bring freedom to the Communists. (False)
People nod right along, and when said loud/long enough, repeated enough times, people think it's true.

Capitalism concentrates investment money at the top, and the top people decide where, when and on what that money will be spent, there is no 'Freedom' in Capitalism.

----------

With economic models it's gone (by direct design) from a free market to capitalism.
From free market, someone making a better, stronger, longer lived product or better, more reliable service,
Which makes jobs locally, has local spending, pays local taxes, supports local communities,
But does NOT concentrate profits/power in a central location...

To a 'Consumer' based economy, cheaper made products that are designed to fail, made remotely, away from the area of the 'Consumer', 
Enough power & money to crush any smaller manufacturer by underselling them until they fail, then buying up the bones of the failed company, moving the jobs away, re-engineer the product to fail so it's 'Consumer' over and over.

If you DON'T think it works this way, look for 'Made In USA' on things in any store...

--------------

Now, consider WHEN this social engineering started to divide the US population...
When the (actual) news was on three networks for national news, and every area had a local newscast, it concentrated, and since these newscasts were ran as a public service (usually at a loss for the providers) the viewing public wouldn't tolerate 'Opinion' or Editorializing.
They formed their own 'Opinion' themselves, or with friends/family.
There was a built in regulator for the extreme/dangerous/stupid ideas.

With the advent of cable/satellite TV, bought & paid for 'Talk' radio, and later the internet,
The inherent safeties were removed, the 'Far Right/Left' ideas/propaganda were being directly beamed into the heads with none of the usual safeties/regulation,
And the 'Bad Actors' took full advantage of this since it could be done with a home computer, low power radio transmitter, or cheaply bought time on public access TV.
(57 channels and nothing on, but that band width MUST be paid for...)

In the start, this bandwidth/air time was at the PERFECT time to reach the disenfranchised, late night/early AM, and went mostly unnoticed by the working masses that had to sleep so they could continue to build & operate America.
(The worst, blackest ideas grow in the dark)

------------------

Now, we have 24/7/365 'Opinion', bought & paid for pundts pushing propaganda, and the mass population doesn't ask where it's coming from, why it's being produced, or who benefits (follow the money).
It's full scale social engineering, you can't get away from it, and the slicker it's produced, the less likely you will question it, or so much you don't have time to fact check, ask the questions, etc.
We as a population are simply overwhelmed by the sheer volume, and all the conflicting ideas, opinions, and emotion/vitriolic propaganda is confusing and scaring us.
Fear & confusion breeds anger, and an angry, confused, scared person is dangerous...

A (singular) person *Can* be rational & reasonable.
People (plural) are dumb, panic stricken, dangerous as a herd.
With about zero time to sit, think, sort things out, we (collectively) become dangerous to ourselves and anything/anyone else around us.

Discount the 'Crazy', just plain mentally ill/defective,
The shooters have chosen to take input from extremest sources, from extreme religion, white supremacists, etc., And the investigations of these people show they spent an large portion of their time absorbing, feeling off of and into these 'Far Right/Left' ideas available 24/7/365.

Don't kid yourselves, we are being 'Social Engineered', from the engineering the government does to support war or compliance with counter productive laws, to companies selling 'Consumer' products, to political groups dividing the voting base, to the far right/left recruiting for these idiotic ideas, 
The PRE-information overload generation aren't the issue... They have some idea of how to separate the propaganda from real life,
If you are a 'Baby Boomer' or younger, you had a non-stop bombardment of propaganda from radio/TV/internet from the cradle.

Think about 'Nostalgia' for TV shows, 'Nostalgia' for something completely fictional...
It never was anything real, just TV shows, but those shows both trained us to watch the idiot box, AND took time away from having real experiences with real people for our memories, we aren't 'Nostalgic' for real people and things that actually happened,
We are Nostalgic for staring at a box of fiction/lies completely blocking out everything & everyone that was real.

------------

Unintended Results...
While there was a governing body in, and over the three basic networks,
'Family Friendly' programming, practices & standards, nothing too extreme one way or the other was introduced where children could be viewing.
From the very beginning, the people running government & the big three networks understood this was a HUGE influence, and these people agreed on how to use this new media...
For 'Good', or 'Bad', the networks HAD to make a profit, so they pandered to advertisers, and since the government controlled the licencing, they also pandered to government.

The mass marketing allowed the 'Consumer' economy to creep into, and eventually take over the free market economic model, replacing it with the false 'Consumer' economy.

With mass distribution of far left/right propaganda, the internet has taken over.
Keep in mind the MONEY was by far on the far right, 'Capitalism' viewpoint was (and still is) pumped way more than the (broke) far left viewpoint.
The idiotic idea of 'Right To Work' crushed unions, and unions/labor groups are what built the economic 'Middle Class' in America.
'Capitalism' concentration of money at the top allows for money to be poured into paid pundts speaking against a fair wage for a days work, and it works since crushing labor unions completely crushed the 'Middle Class' in America.

This also extends into what you can collect from big companies when you are injured or killed. Limitations on awards completely voids the decisions of the juries, which is subverting the justice systems.
Every part of a Capitalism system is stacked AGAINST the worker or common man, but we as a people have been bombarded with the Pro Capitalism system 24/7/365 since the 80s.

The far right/left has simply taken a page from big business/government and gone after everyone, from all sides, and they obviously have full on converts, partial converts, people pulled far right from center, etc.
They are VERY good at keeping you scared, keeping you in a razor edge, an emotional person REACTS without thought...
From the vague 'Red Menace', to 'They' are coming for your guns, to Y2K, 12/21/12, and every other 'End Of The World' "Threat", 
Scared people don't 'Think', analyse, form a plan and ACT on actual threats,
They immediately REACT on emotion, and CONSUME!
Some go so far as to start shooting... And we get mass shooters.

-------------

While I'm endlessly called a 'Prepper' because I have solar power, live in an earth sheltered, poured concrete home, grow a large portion of my own food,
It's not a 'Prepper' thing, each choice was either threat or economic based.

Termites, carpenter ants, rot ruin homes all the time around here, and cause constant expensive upkeep to keep ahead of.
I simply chose a building material that was immune to those very real threats.

I live in 'Tornado Alley', several large storms and small tornados every year,
Big tornados (and I mean HUGE) every 20 years or so.
Between storm damage and insurance costs, heating & cooling costs, it made economic sense to do earth sheltered.
The home is stupid thermally efficient, mostly fire, bug, rot proof, and concrete is a minimum of 125 years of virtually maintenance free construction.

The electric company wanted $5,000 up front for a ground mount transformer which wasn't covered by insurance or the electric company (one lighting strike and it would be at least another $5,000),
And the same electric company wanted to tack $118,000 to my electric bill over the next 20-30 years.

For an investment of $28,000 over time, as I needed more power, I got a solar PV system that paid for itself, and continued to make power long after it returned initial investment, and is still paying me in power every day.
Keep in mind, with enough power, everything else is possible, clean water, heating/cooling, producing something real outside the 'Consumer' economy...

After directly seeing what goes into processed food, and doing a little research on what those chemicals and processing do to the food and me, I decided to grow most of my staples myself.
A clean food supply from an actual threat.
That farming/gardening produces an income and/or barter material, real, actual goods.

I chose a business with real, actual results in the real Free Market Economy.
I make & repair real, actual production & machinery.
Machine & welding shop with actual, locally (county, state, country) based customer base of 'Hard' or 'Durable' goods/services.

I saw the problem, I did what I could to solve the problem in my sphere of influence.
I don't expect to 'Get Rich' on 'Consumer' products through middle men, produced in some third world country.

I'm a LONG WAY from perfect, I don't have all the answers to everything (and despite what the propaganda producers tell you, no one does),
As a simple man, I SIMPLY don't aggravate well known issues by participating in the problems.
I refuse to be a co-conspirator for a few bucks here & there, opting for reducing waste, consumption, pollution, far left/right political ideas/lies, or participating in the false 'Consumer' economy that benefits no one but the few at the very top.

Call it stubborn, call it 'Anti-American' (calling a 16 year veteran Marine that's disabled is the actual 'Un-American' act), call it 'Isolationism' because I choose to do business locally, call it 'Activism' when I choose not to poison the land that produces my food and I live on everyday...
That's what propaganda does, twist the truth around.

Choose what ever you want, believe that all 'Brown' people are inferior, choose to believe that one religion is 'Superior' to another, choose to believe humans can't kill themselves by killing the biosphere they live in, choose to *believe* that anyone with different choices is an 'Enemy' worthy of being murdered...
Just keep in mind *IF* you make those choices, then you are on exactly the same ground as anyone on the other side of your *beliefs*/choices. If you target someone, someone will be forced to target YOU...

Keep in mind, we have a leader that *Believes* anyone that is overweight, older, has a big nose or physical defect is 'Bad' and can't do any particular job, is a worthless drag on the 'Beautiful People'....
Attacking people publicly, loudly & repeatedly for looks, handicaps, service to their country, etc.
So, unless you are 'Perfect', 'Beautiful' and Rich, and you directly support this president, you are nothing, worthless, an 'Enemy' of the state.
I don't know any 'Perfect' people, some are flawed more that others, but exactly ZERO 'Perfect' people. 

I'm on the president's hit list because I was shot twice, blown up twice, in three aircraft crashes in the military, and now I'm disabled, a leach on society, taking government 'Entitlements' & 'Handouts/Welfare'.
I lost an ankle, both knees, one hip, three vertebrae in my lower back, 21 breaks in my ribs, two vertebrae in my neck, one shoulder, nerve damage and most of my hearing in the line of duty.

Am I allowed damages/compensation/care for those losses? 
Or am I a blood sucking leach riding the system, expecting everyone else to provide me with unreasonable/unearned income & services?


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)




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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)




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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

Maybe you guys knew this. 
The shooter called the FBI about 15 minutes BEFORE going on a rampage.
The shooter had threatened to shoot his neighbor, and the neighbor had called the police. The police never followed up. I think I saw that posted earlier.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

nehimama said:


>


He truly loved her, just putting her out of her obvious misery!


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

Bumper stickers, memes, slogans, etc don't have enough room to tell the truth, so are usually lies or at the very least, misdirection.

Like a hook line in a pop song, it doesn't have to be fact/truth, it just has to be 'Catchy' so it becomes an 'Ear Wig'.
From cults to propaganda, the key is repeating the same false I formation over and over until the 'Subject' can't tell the difference between fact and fiction.

Ignorance is cured by education.
Ignorance is simply not being educated in a particular subject.
Education often opens up the mind to what the person DOESN'T know, they find out there is a BIG VOID of information & facts they didn't know existed.

Stupid is having the proper, correct & provable facts available, but refusing to educate yourself or take education from others.
This continues, insanity is doing the same things over & over again, expecting different results.

Of course, this won't fit on a bumper sticker or meme, so it will go largely ignored and/or protested...

The Dunning-Kruger effect is in full force when anyone *Thinks* a meme or bumper sticker can educate anyone on anything...
A tiny amount of information leads to Dunning-Kruger Effect, someone is given an idea, and they *Think* they are an "Expert" with 100% confidence they are an authority on the subject.

The more they actually learn about the subject (research into actual facts) the confidence goes down in their previous beliefs.
Confidence will come back up as they gain education, but it never reaches the level of the 'Zealot' they were at first since they now know how many variables there are in the subject they have studied.


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## Elevenpoint (Nov 17, 2009)

Not one gun killed another person ever.
Never.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

JeepHammer said:


> Bumper stickers, memes, slogans, etc *don't have enough room to tell the truth*, so are usually lies or at the very least, misdirection.


Sure they do.
The truth doesn't require long rambling diatribes.



JeepHammer said:


> A tiny amount of information leads to Dunning-Kruger Effect, someone is given an idea, and *they *Think* they are an "Expert"* with 100% confidence they are an authority on the subject.


Couldn't that apply to those who constantly try to "educate" others?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

JeepHammer said:


> This will take research, so I'm sure the very idea will be jumped on by deniers seven ways from Sunday....
> 
> We, as a first world population, have been 'Social Engineered'.
> It's not a new idea, been around for a couple milennia, but was scientifically defined & refined in the early 1900s, and made a lot more effective by mass media where the 'Engineers' were in our ears/eyes through radio & TV much of the day.
> ...


Wow.

Two questions:

1) Does Hunter S. Thompson know you found his stash?

2) Are you gonna pass it, or Bogart it?


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## GunMonkeyIntl (May 13, 2013)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> nehimama said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...


I think you're misreading that, Mr. Yvonne.

The first part was a trick question. She never would have allowed herself to befriend someone who would think of owning a gun.

His foot is up in the air because she just stole his shoe before jumping off the cliff.

Like, because, everyone knows that, like, the only thing worse than a, like, fascist is, like, a fascist with shoES?


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

GunMonkeyIntl said:


> I will point out that this is a forum, not your blog. If your goal is to post whatever articles and opinions you like, without the annoyance of anyone interacting with you or your opinions, you might find a personal blog to be a more satisfying experience.
> 
> I don’t understand the need to predispose the interaction into antagonistic terms. There is a difference between a discussion and an argument, and openly asking someone a question is not “_baiting them for a response_.”
> 
> We have found common ground in the past, and I continue to be open-minded. If you prefer to post loaded information, and then walk away from any interaction over it, that is your prerogative, but you cannot reasonably expect the holes, bias and/or misinformation in your articles to not be _discussed_ by other participants, nor to not be asked questions about it.


Howard Johnson is right! Who can argue with that?


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## Hiro (Feb 14, 2016)

JeepHammer said:


> This will take research, so I'm sure the very idea will be jumped on by deniers seven ways from Sunday....
> 
> We, as a first world population, have been 'Social Engineered'.
> It's not a new idea, been around for a couple milennia, but was scientifically defined & refined in the early 1900s, and made a lot more effective by mass media where the 'Engineers' were in our ears/eyes through radio & TV much of the day.
> ...


I don't think you know what the words capitalism or free markets mean. The propaganda definition you seem to have a fine grasp upon.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

JeepHammer said:


> This will take research, so I'm sure the very idea will be jumped on by deniers seven ways from Sunday....


One of the easiest ways to "engineer" someone into doubting your perspective is to make a presupposition before even beginning that to understand truth, or your point of view in this case, requires intellect at the level of the one selling the idea.
Ironically, it is usually the ones who do little actual research, think for themselves, or possess that low "QI" that tend to gather around the wagon to sample that elixer.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

QI ?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

whiterock said:


> QI ?


I think that's an IQ that's so low it's going in reverse.


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## HDRider (Jul 21, 2011)

whiterock said:


> QI ?


The opposite of IQ - Quotient of Ignorance


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

whiterock said:


> QI ?


I think it was sarcasm. He has an endless repertoire.


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## nehimama (Jun 18, 2005)

HDRider said:


> The opposite of IQ - Quotient of Ignorance


Well! That's even better than sarc.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Remember when moron, imbecile, and idiot were legitimate terms regarding people with lower IQ? Nothing to do with this conversation, just a thought that ran through when I saw the QI thing.


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

HDRider said:


> The opposite of IQ - Quotient of Ignorance


Yes, QI.
Thank you for playing folks. For the winners in today's game stop by the counter on the way out, we have some great coupons and special offers.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

HDRider said:


> The opposite of IQ - Quotient of Ignorance


The one thing that exceeds infinity!


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

whiterock said:


> Remember when moron, imbecile, and idiot were legitimate terms regarding people with lower IQ? Nothing to do with this conversation, just a thought that ran through when I saw the QI thing.


Those used to be common terms used by most people. Sadly in today's world they have been outlawed for fear of hurting someone's feelers.


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

GTX63 said:


> Yes, QI.
> Thank you for playing folks. For the winners in today's game stop by the counter on the way out, we have some great coupons and special offers.


OOOOH!
Can I get a left handed hammer?
I've got to reverse an entry door today.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

farmrbrown said:


> OOOOH!
> Can I get a left handed hammer?
> I've got to reverse an entry door today.


Going for an exit door?


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## farmrbrown (Jun 25, 2012)

Yvonne's hubby said:


> Going for an exit door?


LOL.
That's my motto everyday.
Always know where the exit door is.


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

Know where the exits are AND sit facing the front door!


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## whiterock (Mar 26, 2003)

no really, I learned to do that when I was a teen reading Louis L'Amour western novels. Sit with your back to the wall, face the door, or where you can watch the doors if more than one, know where exits are, and observe others in the place and their actions. My EX used to fuss at me for "staring" at people. I told her I wasn't staring, I was watching. 
Once, I met friends at a restaurant we often ate at. I always sat in one particular chair, back to wall facing the door. One lady decided she would pull a trick on me and she and her husband sat on my side in my accustomed place. When I entered they were grinning like mules eating briars. I said nothing, just took the empty chair and moved it to the end of the table around the side from the back to door position.


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## Evons hubby (Oct 3, 2005)

farmrbrown said:


> LOL.
> That's my motto everyday.
> Always know where the exit door is.


Puts me in mind of the old boy I heard about in eastern Ky. His wife had finally talked him into going to church. When the preacher started tossing rattle snakes into the crowd, the old guy looks all around and asks the wife where the back door was.., she replied "don't think there is one", his response... "I wonder where they want one!"


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## JeepHammer (May 12, 2015)

GTX63 said:


> One of the easiest ways to "engineer" someone into doubting your perspective is to make a presupposition before even beginning that to understand truth, or your point of view in this case, requires intellect at the level of the one selling the idea.
> Ironically, it is usually the ones who do little actual research, think for themselves, or possess that low "QI" that tend to gather around the wagon to sample that elixer.


Now that virtually everyone went off on tangents,

It starts as drip feeding, using the TV as a babysitter, once addicted to 'Virtual' (false/fiction) has replaced actual/real, and the kid is completely addicted,
Then the parent allows violent TV/Movies/Video games, introduced to ever growing violence and bad ideas.

The child isn't 'Socialized' by family, friends.
The child is 'Videoized' for lack of a better word.

Then as they get older, they get exposed to the remarkably stupid ideas from web sites.
As they seek out increasing stimulation, not from sports, family, jobs, travel in the real world,
Immersed in a 'Gaming' world is bad enough,
Porno is worse,
But the idiotic DANGEROUS ideas is the worst.

Once this becomes their focus, the person will find people that support the idiot/dangerous ideas, push that person farther, and all the safety checks & balances of friends/family are not present, it's a cycle of feeling into, and off of it...

It's no secret virtually all the mass shooters were feeding on radical religion, white supremacy, anti-immigration etc. web sites.

Add in the gun culture and it's no stretch.
More guns than Americans make guns available cheap & easy.
While the far right says a firearm never killed any person on it's own, the other side of that is there has never been a firearm murder when a firearm wasn't present. The two have to intersect.

The military uses video game training, shoots at human shaped targets, etc.
That's by design, to get troops used to shooting at humans, which used to be the worst possible thing you could do, a 'Cardinal Sin'.
The military has to train the hesitation to shoot humans out of troops that *Used* to be taught 18+ years NOT to shoot at humans, even by accident.

While we all get 'Steered' by advertisement companies, government, etc. it shouldn't be a surprise when a fraction does mass shootings.
It's the unintended consequences from the early socal engineering, but it's entirely intended, premeditated by the guys pumping the extreme religion/white supremacists.
With the explosion in available stimulation, a videoized population, availability of firearms, traditional checks & balances being bypassed, I'm actually surprised it didn't happen sooner and more often...


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## GTX63 (Dec 13, 2016)

There is a saying that "Perception is a reality to the one experiencing it" so, I suppose there is that.

You seem to be as fervent in your ideology as you are misinformed and appear to be the very example of the socially engineered lemming you speak of.
Just a couple drops of truth mixed in makes the most blatant falsehoods believable and draws the soft minded closer to the page.
smh...


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## wr (Aug 10, 2003)

This one seems to have run it's course.


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