# Tell me what you know about Belgian Malinois



## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

We have an 11 year old aussie/heeler cross and a 15+ (possibly as old as 18) year old dog I suspect to be a malinois mixed with something that gave him merle markings -- aussie would be a good guess. He has the malinois look, definitely. Super athletic, agile, tough dog. 

Both dogs are still in pretty good shape, though our old boy is definitely showing his years. We NEED guard dogs here against coyotes and small varmits mostly.

We've ruled out LGD breeds due to excessive barking. Property's one acre. Not big enough for an LGD, and really, they don't have quite the right temperament. We have too many people who come over visiting to have a dog who's that territorial and potentially aggressive around. 

I like my malinois mix and I've been wondering about the purebreds. The general breed description seems to fit the bill. Basically, we need a dog that'll chase off most predators, that can be trained to leave the cats and poultry alone, has enough of a herding drive and toughness to work horned goats, and which can stay outside with access to a heated dog house in all but the nastiest weather. We need a breed with a lot of stamina and general toughness.

Has anyone used them as working farm dogs, and what did you think? How are they with stranger who come visiting, assuming one trains and socializes them from an early age around people?

(I like australian cattle dogs too, and have a lot of experience with the breed. However, I'd like a dog that's slightly larger because the coyotes and bobcats around here are huge. We may still go with a cattle dog, but malinois are on my short list.)


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## ksfarmer (Apr 28, 2007)

My son is a LEO. He had a Malinois that was trained as a drug dog and tracker. After the dog retired he became a farm dog. Great dog, very intelligent and quickly learned how to be a proper farm protector, gentle with kids, tolerant of cats and other pets. He never had occasion to tangle with a coyote that I know of, but, I suspect he could have handled one. He was very affectionate and greatly missed after his passing. Bacco was the long-haired variety of Malinois and a beautiful dog, did require brushing and more grooming than the short hair variety.


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## BarbadosSheep (Jun 27, 2011)

They are high energy, especially as puppies. But they are scary smart and learn quickly. For someone with an active live style that plans on including the dog, it's a good match. I prefer Dutch Shepherds. they are very very similar to Malanois except that they have an off switch (and they are brindle), which many mals do not have.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

High energy isn't an issue -- my favorite breeds are working stock dogs like cattle dogs and aussies. The current probable-malinois-cross I have still patrols the fence line for hours at a time and plays like a puppy and he's possibly old enough to vote. He's the energizer bunny reincarnated as a dog. (I've had him 14 years and he was 2-4 years old when I got him from a shelter. Most people don't think he's anywhere near that old! LOL.)


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Huge variety of temperament between a show dog and a working dog. Most are bred for protection now days and those dogs are very "sharp" dogs and quick to bite. Everyone that our city has had as a K9 officer has bit its handler, handlers family and one even bit the mayor. They are known for biting their handlers. The are also know for not getting along well with cats and other animals. I wouldn't trust one to greet strangers alone, chances are some one will get bit. They are crazy busy as well so you will need to work with it a lot to keep it stimulated. They are a lot of dog.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

A Mal can be a very difficult dog to own. You have been lucky with your mix. I don't know if you can get most of them to leave the cat alone. I think you should look for a grown Mal so you know what you are getting. They need an alpha type person, a job, and training. Even then, as posted above, the dog may not be trustworthy. Since your dog would be loose, this could become a problem for you.

Not all LGD's bark. Do a bit more research into LGD's. There may be one that suits your needs. Or even a giant schnauzer or Dobermann.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

The mal cross I've got *can* definitely be a handful. I actually got him from "death row" at the shelter -- a volunteer brought him out to me as a hail mary last-ditch attempt to find him a home, as they were going to put him down that day. 

I'd been by the pound looking for a prospect for a working guard dog several times and wasn't finding what I was looking for. He'd been adopted out twice, and returned, and then placed in a foster home with a supposed trainer where he lasted two days before biting someone when they tried to leash him.

Took a bit (a lot!) of training to turn him into a good dog, but he's more than earned his keep over the years. However, I can definitely see where they get the reputation for biting their handlers! He's lightning fast if something surprises him or he feels threatened.

My definition of "good dog" is probably different from your average city dog-owner's definition. I LIKE dogs with a lot of energy and drive, and I pretty much know how how to train them to be safe and useful animals.

However, if those of you with experience with mals think they couldn't be trained to accept visitors coming in the yard unannounced, that's definitely a negative vote in the breed's favor. Likewise, the cat issue. 

For as isolated as we are, we have lots of friends and family and neighbors who come visiting, sometimes unannounced. I'm virtually certain I can train most heelers and working-type aussies to see visitors as a good thing and to leave the cats alone. I don't have enough experience with mals to know how strong their prey drive and territorial instincts are, so I will listen to the experts. ;-)


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Whew! There are so many dogs out there that would work out for you. I figured you could handle a dog that other people could not, but the idea of a loose malinois with strangers dropping by&#8230;.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I don't have a lot of experience with Mals, but used to groom one many years ago. He was sharp and quite reserved. He trusted me though, I was very careful handling him not to upset or challenge him, we got along fine. One day a couple of young men came in the front of the shop and started to give me a bad time (nothing much, just kidding around, guys I knew) and he was about to fly off the table after them. I did always have that feeling I was working with a loaded gun that had a hair trigger, but I sure liked the dog. I felt he would have protected me had it been someone else that meant me harm coming in.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

And yet they are used as Search and Rescue dogs...and therapy dogs...

Mon


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## JJ Grandits (Nov 10, 2002)

I believe they are also the prefed dog of the navy SEALS. Whole lot of dog there.


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## GrannyCarol (Mar 23, 2005)

I am reasonably sure the one I worked with was an extreme of temperament within the breed, if I remember correctly that is what his owner told me. I still liked him a lot.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

They are easy to train, catch on fast. One reason they can make a good assistance dog, too. 

IF you plan on keeping the dog outside and away from humans, except for visitors every now and then, bad idea. They really DO need their interaction with humans. They can be "barkey", and can be JUST as inventive as Border Collies when left alone and bored. A cat can easily be Belgian's idea of going out for lunch.

Then again, many have cats as close friends. Many are used for herding, but they are NOT livestock guardian dogs. Many are used for ringsports.

And you might just want to see what they cost.

Mon


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## bluemoonluck (Oct 28, 2008)

Have you considered a Beauceron? They aren't quite as "sharp" as Mals are, but very similar otherwise IMO.


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## Barnbum374 (Oct 5, 2013)

I had a Belgian shepherd that passed away about 2 yrs ago. He was one of the best dogs I ever had! He was super smart and would do anything for his kong! He was extremely loyal, and very reserved around strangers. I always felt safe with him around! They are not for beginners, but if you know how to establish yourself as a pack leader, they are great! 

You may want to consider also a Catahoula. We have one who is great around our animals and is quite intimidating.

I have considered getting another Belgian shepherd, but we already have 5 dogs right now, because people keep dumping dogs on our dirt road and they end up finding their way to our house. 

Want a chihuahua? That was the latest dog that showed up.


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## Otter (Jan 15, 2008)

Breeds change a LOT over the course of a decade. Those who had a beloved Mal in the past, the breed is not the same. As Jason said, the current Ma l really sharp.

Cygnet, I understand just where you're coming from, I can also handle a lot more dog than most and appreciate that sort of temperament.

But I would not take on a Mal at this point in my life, with children and the farm needing a lot from me, if that tells you anything. It's a breed that is a job for the first couple of years.
You can find the mellower (although that is strictly an in-breed comparative word here!!) lines if you really search, but you'll be doing some hunting for it.
Also, the more common current Mals tend to be on the smaller size of the breed standard so don't really have as much of a size difference on a cattle dog, especially as over-size cattle dogs are so easy to find.

You might be a lot happier with a Belgian Tervuren or Sheepdog. They aren't as hair-trigger as the Malinios.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Actually our LGD dog is the one best with strangers dropping by(during the day), the other dogs go nuts and wont turn off, he will quietly approach them and is very gentle. He is clear his job is to guard the ANIMALs not against people-- although once the sun goes down all bets are off....
He also the calmest dog.
We have a fairly typical giant schnuazer- and I agree with the rest-- anything sharp (different from the working qualities in a herding dog, similar but it is different) is a liability with strangers dropping by-- 
we sent our dog to boot camp to mediate her Sharpness -- and that really paid off for the 2 little Jehoviahs witness old ladies that made it (past our chained front gate) and to our front door while I was in the shower, although by that time- they were trapped there, at our front door and werent being allowed to move....

But yeah, I would prefer less sharp and more watchdog, guardian style for our setup (we have 2 acres right on the edge of town)...


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Hey someones been trying to place a spayed female Beauceron for some time now-- I think the dog was too much for a home with a toddler, but might work for you!


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## Peeperpuppy (May 30, 2017)

I know this is an old topic but thought maybe someone searching for info my pick it up (as I did) & thought I'd add to the thread. I had a working Malinois who was a brilliant farm dog. At first she was a chicken killer but we trained her past it. (People say that can't be done but that doesn't make it so, just persistence & the dog's willingness to be what their human needs. No shock collar or beating required - which is what I've often been told were the only ways to break a dog from killing chickens.) Anyway, I've used her to work cattle, to move chickens. When she encountered a chicken killing ****, he bit her once & got his neck broken for his effort. After that, no **** got a chance to bite her. She was a ferocious dog. She was my personal guardian, the real deal & had zero tolerance for anyone putting their hands on me unauthorized. She was so tuned in that one day when my husband was demonstrating to a client why so many people get bitten by dogs & he reached for me slowly but grabbed my arm, she took him off me. Period. The only reason he didn't get a bite that day was his behavior was so out of character for him. We don't fight & for certain don't get physically violent, so when he acted weird, she bumped him & the next would have been a bite if he hadn't amended his behavior. She meant business every day of her life. The day I fell down the stairs, she threw herself between me & the banister. I struck her head with mine during the fall & it chipped a bone on her skull. Many dogs when hurt that way would snap or bite from the pain, not her. Of course I wasn't careless, it happened during the fall. Maybe if she hadn't thrown herself at me as she did, I might have been killed or had brain damage from the strike. AMAZING dog. She was the do-it-all dog. The difference between her & many of the dogs modern bred for sport or police work is that my dog was not bred to extremes (she was not a show dog. She was a working dog, bred to be a working dog for many generations however her breeder kept to the old ways.) Before anyone gets upset at this comment, I have worked for years with all levels of police & military dogs. I know what's required. My girl was more than capable of doing high level work. She had the tools but she was not driven into madness as SOME sport or police bred dogs are. She was a thinker but she was fast on her feet. She required a leader & she was a dog of action, always but she was not bred to extremes. A dog bred such as she was is an amazing family dog. I would have trusted her with children (had I had kids). Where the breed gets into trouble is too often they are faster than their humans (mind, body, reaction times, etc...) so often times the handler gets preoccupied or isn't paying attention & that's just not good with a Mal.

As you can tell, I loved my mal. She was a good dog with an amazing work ethic. She was a fast learner, in fact she was fast at anything. Her very first down/stay was 30 minutes. It was an accident on my part as I was training with her while cooking in the kitchen. She required no correction or reminder. Solid working dog. Like many a good farm dog of olden days, she learned our chores, learned our normal behavior & she was a pro at accompanying us, helping us, & seeing to it we were safe while doing it.

In my opinion, in order to have a good Malinois you need to have a handler who really enjoys working with dogs. If the dog's bred properly they're not hard to live with. In fact, I'm trying to find one again that I would like to live with but there are just so many bred for things I'm not interested in. They are not police or sport dogs only. They are supreme farm dogs but they must be bred properly, they MUST have a job & they must have someone who is consistent with praise, repetition & corrections when needed. They are not a dog you get & dump off in the yard & expect them to turn into Rin Tin Tin. They need a handler who shows them what is expected but when you get them through puppyhood & they've figured out the rules, they are just the best.


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## Maura (Jun 6, 2004)

Peeperpuppy, you might want to check the dates when you read past the top five or ten posts. This is from 2014.

I sure would like to know if Cygnet got her mal, though.


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## Peeperpuppy (May 30, 2017)

That's why my first post states: I know this is an older post... The reason I went ahead & posted is people search for topics on farm use in the breed & I'd hoped to add to the information for those folks. It's how I found the topic to begin with then I started reading the forum & really enjoyed it. So I did look. I'd also hoped that by posting maybe Cygnet would see someone responded & might share if she got her Malinois &, if so, how the pup was working out for her?



Maura said:


> Peeperpuppy, you might want to check the dates when you read past the top five or ten posts. This is from 2014.
> 
> I sure would like to know if Cygnet got her mal, though.


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## Bearfootfarm (Jul 13, 2006)

If you get a Malinois, get one that understands English.
One of the local PD's bought one imported from the Netherlands that only understood his commands when spoken in Dutch.


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## Wolf mom (Mar 8, 2005)

Just had animal control pick up a youngster here today. Same dog that I found loose dragging his chain locked to his collar last week. 

Beautiful dog, full of play and oh, so, strong.


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

For some reason I'm not getting emails from this site. Just saw this.

A bit of updatery: We put my mal mix down due to dementia a few years agoand we lost my heeler-x-aussie unexpectedly, with zero warning, to hemangiosarcoma last winter.

I ended up getting a 3/4 border collie 1/4 mcnabb pup in Feburary, from true working lines off an old fashioned working ranch. At not quite six months now, he's already rounding the chickens up (including ... sometimes ... knowing his directions), has about ten commands down solid, I think he was born housebroken LOL, and gets along with everyone. Only issue we have with him really is that he's a bit aggressive towards strange dogs, and that's not a huge issue (a firm "no" shuts him down when he starts lifting his hackles and barking).

He's absolutely unflappable -- I've yet to see him upset/scared/nervous, even when scary things are happening. He just sort of takes everything in stride. Recent scary things included evacuation from a wildfire -- fire trucks rumbling by, cats wailing in the back seat, several days in a crate, hordes of strangers (firefighters) in a neighborhood where there are normally no strange people and only twelve full time residents, all the humans he knew all very upset, and he took it all in stride. (We were fine, and got to go home after four days. He was amazing for a five and a half month old border collie puppy.) 

He's a pretty typical border collie other than the "nothing upsets him" part. I expected him to be a lot more high strung than he is. 

So, in short, I ended up not getting a mal. Got a dog suited to what we needed.


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## Jlynnp (Sep 9, 2014)

Cygnet said:


> High energy isn't an issue -- my favorite breeds are working stock dogs like cattle dogs and aussies. The current probable-malinois-cross I have still patrols the fence line for hours at a time and plays like a puppy and he's possibly old enough to vote. He's the energizer bunny reincarnated as a dog. (I've had him 14 years and he was 2-4 years old when I got him from a shelter. Most people don't think he's anywhere near that old! LOL.)


I bred and trained Malinois for several years. A to depends on the breeding behind the dogs BUT Mals are extremely high drive. They need a qualified trainer not just any trainer will do, they learn very quickly and that translates to learning bad behaviors as well as good ones. I tried to bring my last Mal to the farm and it did not work, he killed a couple kids and I have no doubt it would have continued. I have worked with one Mal who killed a smaller horse, he went on to do Police work. It is a big risk bringing a high prey dog such as a Mal to do this type of work.


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## frogmammy (Dec 8, 2004)

I have a Belgian...have had several...and have fostered for rescue for all the main Belgian breeds...Terv, Sheepdog, Mal...for several years. As said above, a LOT depends on the breeding behind the dog. Seems to be a lot of people breeding for "drive" and not paying attention to any OTHER aspect of what makes a GOOD dog, especially where Mals are concerned. You also have to have a very good idea of what YOU want in a dog.

I am not a high drive person, but I like dogs with more drive/brains, like Belgians and Border Collies, only I look for the one that can settle, and has an "off" switch. There are some out there.

LOVE a creative dog!

Mon


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## Cygnet (Sep 13, 2004)

I think Rocket will eventually develop an off switch. He does well in a crate at night (curls up and goes to sleep) but he's hit that point of puppy puberty where it's a good thing he's cute, because there are days when that's the only thing keeping him alive. (Kidding!)

Six months old. Perpetual motion during the day. Impressively athletic, which doesn't make it easier. NOT nervous or high strung -- he's definitely not one of those dogs that seem to vibrate even when sitting still -- but he's always in motion. He's also hit the stage of "I don't wanna! You can't make me!" reactions to reasonable commands, and he hasn't yet learned that, yes, I CAN make him do whatever it is I just told him to do, I'm far more stubborn than he is and I'm not going to give up until he does it, and he WILL sit/stay/come/down/walk nicely on a leash/etc. but there's been some interesting tests of wills over the last few days.

This too shall pass. It's a stage. I know it's a stage; it's not my first rodeo with a dog this age. My heeler-x-aussie was 10X worse.

Still ... it's a good thing he's cute.

I can see the potential, and he's definitely got a creative streak and a huge sense of humor. He also ... expands ... on commands when he actually wants to do something; for example, after he's put all the goats and chickens into the barn, he will run a circuit of the pasture making sure he hasn't missed any chickens. His idea, he came up with that on his own.

He also knows "fetch" and has expanded that to anything I drop.


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