# Bears? Dogs n Bears?



## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

So gotta lotta questions here- as it seems that we might actually have a bear prowling out in the back just beyond our fence line(Our property has been cleared it has a few select mature trees for shade and brushy on the edges and our house is up in the front next to the road for easy access in winter)...
The neighbors however, have a combo of pasture and wood with their house and garden smack back in the woods just behind our land... And they have Bears! Chewing on their apple trees and tromping thru their yard (they made a little pond back there too)...
Neighbors have 2 itty bitty indoor dogs - Havanese-- that arent allowed outside, so its pretty fair game for the wildlife on their 14 acres (he also showed me how the deer jumped his fence and pulled back the netting and ate all his pepper plants)...
SO dogs were up and out back barking at the back fence second night in a row--
Any advice on Bears? Are big dogs that bark their fool heads off enough (I will feel better once great pyr/ anatolian pup grows up ... but at 12 weeks.... he is just a pup)...
It did occur to me that having the crock pot simmer all night in the back kitchen (door open for dogs' access as it is their bedding area) is probably not a good idea)...
ALso chicken yard is right under the back kitchen and there is feed everywhere....
Dont want to lose my nice hens....

And I am taking the giant schnauzer with me today, we will be back Mon night/ Tues am- she is my feisty gal, the Berner just barks.....

Should we invest in Bear spray? (we dont have guns)...
Not particularly anti- gun just done have a clue about them...

Advice would be appreciated thanks in advance...


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Bears will rarely want to mess with a dog of any size. As long as your two dogs at home bark, they will probably keep it away.

What you may really need is a yorkie!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhaQS9kf7nw[/ame]


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

or they will just eat the dogs the first chance they get , get a 12 gauge shotgun and learn how to use it ,your description of all the goodies they will have to eat at your back door of the house will become irresistible come colder weather ,or you can just leave the light on and wait for them to invite themselves into the house !


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

JasoninMN said:


> Bears will rarely want to mess with a dog of any size. As long as your two dogs at home bark, they will probably keep it away.


Ok thanx Jason, for the reassurance-- its just a short trip back tomorrow night, late, I will take my girl with me (she steals the puppy's breakfast and the hens mash - long story, but she needs supervision) and its just easier to take her with me until pup grows up some-- my big Berner will have to hold the fort til we get back-- 
DH would sleep thru the end of the world, he is out once he is Out....


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

JasoninMN said:


> Bears will rarely want to mess with a dog of any size. As long as your two dogs at home bark, they will probably keep it away.
> 
> What you may really need is a yorkie!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhaQS9kf7nw


I'm gonna disagree with this sweeping generality.
It really depends on the bear, the dog(s) and their experiences.
The bear- adolescent males often go through a phase where they think they are the baddest thing in the woods and will sit and fight a pack of dogs to prove it. If he wins the fight because there aren't enough dogs or the dogs aren't gritty enough, he'll get more aggressive. Really big old males know they're the baddest thing in the woods and don't run or climb anymore, if they really want to hurt some dogs they'll put their butt into a corner so the dogs HAVE to come in face to face.
The dog or dogs- bigger dogs and numbers will deter more effectively because in the forest, size matters. However if your dogs won't commit to a full bite and only pull on the fur, you need enough of them to make the bear feel overwhelmed and annoyed but still not get in each others way. OTH the right dog that hits hard with a full bite can put most bears on notice. I had a hogdog I also ran on bear that would hit them just like a hog, full bite on the side of the face at a dead run. For non doggers, imagine a toothed bear trap (like in the cartoons) on the end of a baseball bat being swung by Mark McGuire or some other road raging home run king. That is what this dog was doing every time he hit a bear (or hog for that matter), most everyone under 300# got knocked clean off their feet.
Experiences- if dogging bear is illegal in your area, the bear are less likely to be intimidated even by large dogs. If it is legal even little dogs represent trouble to them and they're more likely to move on. If the LGDs in your area are mostly from breeds that will physically engage (boz, kangal, koochee, Mastin, etc), the bear are more likely to be intimidated. 

Again keep in mind numbers matter. I know houndsmen that have been called to run down bear & lion that have killed LGDs. In all cases the dogs have been solo or groups less than four.
The thing about wild animals is that when you think you know exactly what they will all do, a couple will come along and do the exact opposite.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

OMG guys my DH wpuld just about have a heart attack if I went and got dog #4! Ha I am a dog lover though and getting that 180lb pyrenean mastiff would be just the thing for Xmas (we put that purchase on hold after unexpectedly getting the pyr/anatolian puppy)- not sure if he would let me even get a Yorkie for dog #4.
Not sure about the 12 gauge, we would probably end up shooting ourselves... not what I have in mind....
Well.... no more crockpottery with the door open thats for sure, and we are getting electric fence for the goats-to-be, so we will start there and ... 
I guess I will leave my fierce gal Giant schnauzer home to keep Maxie company (he held back but was barking last night at the fence, she kept charging onto the fence, not so much common sense on her part I guess)...

But hey I will def pass it onto DH that FOUR is the magic number, (although seriously am not looking forward to any bear confrontation)-- and this is our second Winter here not a peep last season, then again I didnt know my neighbor all that well... I will have to ask him bought last winter....


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Get bear spray. Learn to use a gun. Build strong fences. Don't leave food out for long periods of time. Learn to contain your garbage effectively.


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## painterswife (Jun 7, 2004)

A really good electric fence with dogs on the inside and a gun ready in the house. No feed outside, no garbage, nothing. Bears are determined animals and if you get a bad year in the mountains for them they will persevere and keep attempting to get at what smells good. If you are diligent in keeping the fence electrified and the dogs barking they will only try once and a while.


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## Conhntr (Aug 7, 2010)

Pops had good advice. Luckily around here people dog hunt bears really hard. So they are weary of dogs. And the ONLY good thing about the pack of beagles next door (around a dozen i think) is the bears wont come close!

If they dont have dog hunting pressure they probably wont be afraid of them...


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Ok have no idea about bear hunting pressure-- I will look that up- does seem like there def is a segment of hunters up here (lots of deer though-- like a 6point buck standing across the street at dusk) so maybe Bear too?
Hopefully....
Will take the advice...


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## jen74145 (Oct 31, 2006)

Your location is broad, so I just thought someone should mention how stupidly habituated to people the bears out here are. Especially around Tahoe, where there is a group of people who think they are totally harmless and feed/interact with them.

Be cautious.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

CAjerseychick said:


> Ok have no idea about bear hunting pressure-- I will look that up- does seem like there def is a segment of hunters up here (lots of deer though-- like a 6point buck standing across the street at dusk) so maybe Bear too?
> Hopefully....
> Will take the advice...


Dogging bears just got banned in CA, it'll be a year or two before they begin to lose their fear.


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## tinknal (May 21, 2004)

It is illegal to run bear with hounds here but the bears are still dog-shy. Pops has some good advise but I would add that local populations can be very different. Advise from someone in one area may be totally worthless in another. I think that the biggest factor is hunting pressure from humans. In areas where bear are hunted heavily they associate anything human as something to stay away from, and they associate dogs with humans. A black bear is basically a large raccoon, and a raccoon is an opportunist. The **** is one of the most successful mammals because of their ability to adapt to local conditions. My best advise would be to talk to some of the old timers in your area. Farmers, hunters, trappers, etc. 

I hear stories of coyotes that act differently from the coyotes here. Coyotes are another extremely adaptable species. Coyotes are hunted hard with dogs here and as a result they fear dogs. 60 miles south of here is the suburbs of the Twin Cities and coyotes are never hunted and as a result they eat dogs (small ones anyway). There are no 100 percent guarantees but my best advise would be to find some folks who know the local critters and find out how they usually act.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

If dogging is illegal they don't make a strong association between dogs and humans and you have bear that will walk into a yard to kill and eat chained dogs like in NJ & PA. But where dogging is legal they learn, trucks bring the dogs, dogs bite & harass, people follow the dogs so they avoid all three.


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## Tacoma (Apr 3, 2013)

Pops2 advice is the sensible plan. I have lived with Florida black bears for many, many years and every year it is different. They break down my chainlink fence to just get to a bird feeder if that is what they want, and they have no fear around here. Barking dogs, they just look at us and go where they want. It is a scary thing to hear them in my back fenced yard and then to see them walking around, push open a locked gate and leave a different way than when they came in. They have torn up cars looking for food nearby. Get real and at least " be prepared " to protect yourself if you have to.


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Pops2 said:


> I'm gonna disagree with this sweeping generality.
> It really depends on the bear, the dog(s) and their experiences.
> The bear- adolescent males often go through a phase where they think they are the baddest thing in the woods and will sit and fight a pack of dogs to prove it. If he wins the fight because there aren't enough dogs or the dogs aren't gritty enough, he'll get more aggressive. Really big old males know they're the baddest thing in the woods and don't run or climb anymore, if they really want to hurt some dogs they'll put their butt into a corner so the dogs HAVE to come in face to face.
> The dog or dogs- bigger dogs and numbers will deter more effectively because in the forest, size matters. However if your dogs won't commit to a full bite and only pull on the fur, you need enough of them to make the bear feel overwhelmed and annoyed but still not get in each others way. OTH the right dog that hits hard with a full bite can put most bears on notice. I had a hogdog I also ran on bear that would hit them just like a hog, full bite on the side of the face at a dead run. For non doggers, imagine a toothed bear trap (like in the cartoons) on the end of a baseball bat being swung by Mark McGuire or some other road raging home run king. That is what this dog was doing every time he hit a bear (or hog for that matter), most everyone under 300# got knocked clean off their feet.
> ...


I have to disagree with most of this. The majority is folk lore and based on a few exceptions to the "rules." I've put boars up trees with one beagle, have seen many small terrier types put a move on them as well. I lived an 1/8 of a mile from the local open pit land fill as a kid. We had more bears around our house sleeping in the yard then most people see in a life time. If given a chance a bear is going to flee, talking about what they do to hounds isn't even comparable. A bear cannot flee a hound, the do not have the endurance to out run one. They will either tree, try to take cover, or stand their ground when they have no where else to go. That is why there butt is in the corner. They don't sit around premeditating how they are going to fight a dog. As kids we used to chase the bears for fun, stupid maybe, but it was something to do. Often times when playing around at the dump looking for fort materials our dogs would run bear up trees. We never thought much about the bears, never had one stand up to the dogs. Bears are not ran with hounds here, we also have some of the largest black bears in the U.S. According to your theory ours should be killing dogs all the time and be unafraid of humans. It's a very rare occurrence to see a bear in the woods and we have 20,000 sum black bear. A dog that bites a bear hard is a dead dog. Stories about these bear stopping dogs are just that. I would like to see proof of one dog that grabs an adult bear and fights it that survives with out the intervention of a human. There ar a million bear dog videos out there, there should be one of a dog fighting a bear thats not going its but handed to it. Every hounds man has a video camera now days, so they can film the bear they treed. Where is this phenomenon on film? Oh and I would like to see a hard biting bear dog that is biting a bear thats not tethered, muzzled, tooth and clawless. Other then bear baiting the only thing I see is hounds who are dumb enough to get into the reach of a bear they CORNERED getting killed or a dog that dum enough to try fighting the bear. If bears are such willing dog smashing beasts who want to fight dogs why is it that bears need to be chained to get them to "fight" the dogs and even then they usually just run back and forth on the chain trying to get away? For the hard biting dogs bulldogs, the bears are de-toothed, de-clawed or muzzled on on short chains with at least two dogs set on them because the are pretty much corned and need to fight but they are practically rendered helpless so the dogs don't get killed. Can anyone produce a documented case of a LGD being killed by a black bear? I hear about hounds saving the day all the time, but funny these rescues are never documented. The media jumps on everything else. A news article? anything? Any dog other then a old crippled or severely obese can keep out of the reach of a bear and bears don't go around actively hunting dogs so how exactly are these LGD's being killed? A boz, kangal, koochee, Mastin, etc will all turn tail and run when they get hurt. I have about a 100 videos of them being beat up from dogs half their size. Heck, I even have a dalmatian handing a CAO its butt in a fight. Yeah a few family pets get killed each year usually by a bear corned in the yard, they are pretty rare incidents when you look at the bear population as a whole. Let's not feed into the big bad bear hype and try to scare people. Bears would rather flee then fight and not being able to run bears with hounds will not make them any less fearful of humans. If a 600lb boar met a jrt terrier in the middle of a field. 9 times out of 10 the bears going to flee first. Heck a dog or 2 can usually even move a brown bear along. 

Now perhaps the real answer is cats. 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdAKxxdRYTE[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt_1sQNyHm8[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU1F9nVHpa0[/ame]


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## montysky (Aug 21, 2006)

Buy the bear spray learn how to use it and keep food away, I live near Griz so my bear defense rifle is either a 45-70 or .450 I trade off, A bear could be run by a dog or stand its' ground and fight no way of knowing which before hand.

Don't mess with them unless you have no choice, when things go right bears are not that hard to kill, it is just when things go wrong it can get ugly and fast. and yes I have killed black bears.


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

I grew up in the heart of black bear country. One of my first memories is my grandmother chasing a bear off our porch with a broom. They tend to take the path of least resistance- usually. Whatever is easiest is what they go after IME. They'd be far more likely to go for your stew than your hens. Our mutts used to chase them off. Like Jason, we'd chase them, shoot them with bb guns, stuff like that. They never got scary till I got older and my imagination kicked, fueled by movies like "Night of the Grizzly!!!". But I've had to shoot them too when they started closing down the landfills. An hungry bear is a problem any way you cut it.

In short, your dogs will be a deterrent. But nothing is certain. I doubt the bears will try to eat the dogs. A good rifle or shotgun is a must have in bear country. Actually it's a must have anywhere.


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## Rock (Jan 5, 2009)

Most times a dog will run black bear off, they wont do as well with griz, brown or polar.
However anyone in Alaska will tell you nothing fills the tiny space up between you and the bear like a good dog.
I have a _(black bear)_ picture of dead triplets on here, laid out on a tarp. They had gone rogue and were targeting goat & sheep pens. Allegedly _(since it is illegal to hunt bear with dogs in this state)_ guys with dogs and guns got them pinned in a straight walled ravine, then they used this big American Bulldog to flush and roll them 1 at a time, and they were culled.
These bears had fed off of each other_ (group mentality, kind of like politicians stupidity)_ getting bolder in the hits, until something had to be done.
Other times it was quite rare for a bear to engage the dogs, if they could possibly get away, without contact.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

The problem is the op talked of many sources of food and open doors ,young dogs ,live bait (chickens ) and grain on the ground ,No guns and No pepper spray just sounds like an open invitaion to a bear encounter if they are already eating the neighbors apples it won't be long before they are helping themselves to some of the stew in the crock pot simmering overnight on the porch with the door open and a puppy sleeping by the fire . I wish them the best but it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen once the weather changes .


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Grumpy old man said:


> The problem is the op talked of many sources of food and open doors ,young dogs ,live bait (chickens ) and grain on the ground ,No guns and No pepper spray just sounds like an open invitaion to a bear encounter if they are already eating the neighbors apples it won't be long before they are helping themselves to some of the stew in the crock pot simmering overnight on the porch with the door open and a puppy sleeping by the fire . I wish them the best but it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen once the weather changes .


 Just had no idea there was really Bear out there we dont see a thing not even Raccoons that raid that neighbors property night after night-- 
The only thing I can think of we have the only big outside dogs in the vicinity (the other neighbors have goats no dogs, the previously mentioned ones have 2 toy dogs and an indoor cat) and that Bear and other predators choose easier pickings, ie our neighbors-- the Berner is 120lbs of bark, the Schnauzer is 80lbs and Bites as well as bark (she has cleaned us out of little vermin).... and that pup is 35lbs at 12 weeks and growing fast.....

We have an apple tree and a plum tree too-- but we were the only ones eating off those....
You are absolutely right about the dang crockpot though -- is it better just to cook the stew during the day?
I am in town for work (keeps the homestead going that paycheck)... back late tonight (maybe mid Bear?)....
Will investigate getting Bear spray for starters....


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

You know what they say about bear spray...it adds flavor to the bears dinner. I've sprayed dogs and bulls with human type spray and it had almost no effect. They tell me the bear spray is a lot more potent. Maybe, but I'm a believe in lethal force options on animals that can hurt me real bad. Guns are just tools and the learning curve is not real steep. Your choice.

Best thing you can likely do is start practicing some housekeeping and securing trash and such. Black bears are not Grizzlys, they are generally pretty shy. Personally, I have a lot more concern with coytoes than bear as far as actual loss of stock/dogs go.


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## Grumpy old man (Aug 6, 2013)

well ,It could be worse !


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Haha GOM! 
I definitely believe little bells and pepper spray are the solution!
(No)....


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Bret4207 said:


> You know what they say about bear spray...it adds flavor to the bears dinner. I've sprayed dogs and bulls with human type spray and it had almost no effect. They tell me the bear spray is a lot more potent. Maybe, but I'm a believe in lethal force options on animals that can hurt me real bad. Guns are just tools and the learning curve is not real steep. Your choice.
> 
> Best thing you can likely do is start practicing some housekeeping and securing trash and such. Black bears are not Grizzlys, they are generally pretty shy. Personally, I have a lot more concern with coytoes than bear as far as actual loss of stock/dogs go.


I do think coyotes are shot on sight here. Def appears to be a fair amount of hunting pressure on them- neighbors do NOT complain about coyote, just the bears and raccoons.
(Also tenant farmer had his lambs out exposed in pasture all last summer with a single Akbash ***** for protection with no issues)....


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

Bear spray is effective BUT you need to leave the area once its been used because the smell will attract other bears. I would not use it at a home. It's okay to be prepared but with your dogs I really doubt you have much to worry about.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

JasoninMN said:


> Bear spray is effective BUT you need to leave the area once its been used because the smell will attract other bears. I would not use it at a home. It's okay to be prepared but with your dogs I really doubt you have much to worry about.


Hmmm I did not know that about Bear spray. 
Honestly, it was fine the 2 nights I was gone with my schnauzer, not a peep. Maybe once the weather turns (its holding in the toasty 90s this week)... and I will leave her home with the other dogs as extra protection....


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

painterswife said:


> A really good electric fence with dogs on the inside and a gun ready in the house. No feed outside, no garbage, nothing. Bears are determined animals and if you get a bad year in the mountains for them they will persevere and keep attempting to get at what smells good. If you are diligent in keeping the fence electrified and the dogs barking they will only try once and a while.


^This.


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## Stonybrook (Sep 22, 2007)

This one is pretty funny too.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRQ47elTsRk[/ame]


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Ok guys, that is funny those videos are too much.... Its just ... that there is a bear out there... ( I am counting on him to have common sense I will take the leafblower to him if I have to...).....

I think it will be workable (Ha you all should have been there last night at work-- locked psych ward, angry kid, now that is the def of angry bear)...


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## Bret4207 (May 31, 2008)

CAjerseychick said:


> I do think coyotes are shot on sight here. Def appears to be a fair amount of hunting pressure on them- neighbors do NOT complain about coyote, just the bears and raccoons.
> (Also tenant farmer had his lambs out exposed in pasture all last summer with a single Akbash ***** for protection with no issues)....


Well, you're in Ca, I'm in NY. Our coyotes can weigh up to 70 lbs or more and hunt in packs. DEC here finally admitted ours have wolf DNA running through them. They are a far cry from the scrawny over grown fox sized coyotes I saw in Ca. and Az. when I was out there. We've only just got the legal okay to destroy coyotes hunting our stock. I'll take a bear over a coyote any day! Bears come in singles, coyotes come in packs of 8 or 10!!!


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Bret4207 said:


> Well, you're in Ca, I'm in NY. Our coyotes can weigh up to 70 lbs or more and hunt in packs. DEC here finally admitted ours have wolf DNA running through them. They are a far cry from the scrawny over grown fox sized coyotes I saw in Ca. and Az. when I was out there. We've only just got the legal okay to destroy coyotes hunting our stock. I'll take a bear over a coyote any day! Bears come in singles, coyotes come in packs of 8 or 10!!!


Luckily, we are a couple miles outside of Nevada City-- cute little touristy town-- they are not going to put up with that around here....
We have one of the last open spaces on the edges of town, it is nice in a lot of ways (except, the more we get into this, the more land and animals I want)....


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

They're seriously considering allowing hunting bears with dogs in Minnesota. http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/04/18_julinc_bearsndogs/ and there are numerous videos on Youtube of dogs baying up bears on the ground...there's even one of a grizzly bear being bayed up by a bunch of hounds.

What you need is a good cur dog. What's a cur dog? Dog that has catahoula or blackmouth ancestry. Try to find a full blooded one. My breed of preference is the catahoula. They're ideal for people who don't want strange animals or people trespassing on their property. The catahoula grows up knowing what animals/people are allowed and not allowed and will deal with it as they see fit. Here is my male (blue leopard on the right side of the picture) on a feral hog. They are born hating strange animals/people and extremely loyal.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

TedH71 said:


> They're seriously considering allowing hunting bears with dogs in Minnesota. http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2003/04/18_julinc_bearsndogs/ and there are numerous videos on Youtube of dogs baying up bears on the ground...there's even one of a grizzly bear being bayed up by a bunch of hounds.
> 
> What you need is a good cur dog. What's a cur dog? Dog that has catahoula or blackmouth ancestry. Try to find a full blooded one. My breed of preference is the catahoula. They're ideal for people who don't want strange animals or people trespassing on their property. The catahoula grows up knowing what animals/people are allowed and not allowed and will deal with it as they see fit. Here is my male (blue leopard on the right side of the picture) on a feral hog. They are born hating strange animals/people and extremely loyal.


I did think your dog was a fine looking specimen.... Hmmmm.....I do have people still in AR, maybe I will send some feelers out...


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## JasoninMN (Feb 24, 2006)

That article was from 2003, it never passed. I doubt it ever will.


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## Buddylee (Aug 26, 2013)

A cur dog is a mixed up huntin dog.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

Buddylee said:


> A cur dog is a mixed up huntin dog.


A cur, (more properly cu in Irish or cyr in welsh) is a celtic commoner's dog that both works livestock (especially rough stock like cattle & swine) and hunts (traditionally silent on track to avoid detection). The dogs came naturally bob tailed and are the source of the Anglo Saxon idea that working dogs should be docked. As early as the 1400s writers claim "a superior dog for hunting boar was made by crossing curres with mastives or bulldogges."
Breeds that trace back in whole or part to the original Irish & British curs are:
Mountain cur & derivatives (kemmer, Stephens, Canadian etc)
Black mouth cur & derivatives (outlaw cur)
Catahoula & derivatives ( leopard cur, Camus etc)
Old English sheepdog (by way of the Smithfield cattle dog, which originated with cur & collie crosses)
Stumpy tailed cattle dog (alleged by several Australians to be direct & relatively pure descendants of the original Smithfields)
Queensland heeler (another descendant of the Smithfield but known to have both dingo & bullterrier added)
Corgi
Interesting side note ALL of these breeds do or did throw natural bobtails.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

JasoninMN said:


> A dog that bites a bear hard is a dead dog. Stories about these bear stopping dogs are just that. I would like to see proof of one dog that grabs an adult bear and fights it that survives with out the intervention of a human. *Where is this phenomenon on film*?


Dog doesn't have to catch like a bulldog to bite hard, but even if they do that's no garantee of getting killed. I guess Roosevelt & the fella that wrote about Gen Wade Hampton hunting bears with dogs (including bulldogs) and a knife were liars too. Most real dog & bear fights in the wild last seconds & usually end with a bear quitting or a dog getting his neck, back or shoulder broke from a bear slap. BUT every once in a while a really smart & aggressive dog comes along that just has a knack for hitting them and surviving. Being on film is lousy prerequisite to something being truthful as is your personal witness of the event. By that standard the Kitty Genovese incident never happened, it was just a story some people made up.


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

JasoninMN said:


> If given a chance a bear is going to flee, talking about what they do to hounds isn't even comparable. A bear cannot flee a hound, the do not have the endurance to out run one. They will either tree, try to take cover, or stand their ground when they have no where else to go. That is why there butt is in the corner. They don't sit around premeditating how they are going to fight a dog.


You're absolutely right, 99 times out of 100 a bear (even one that's never been hunted) will bail at the first bark. But the bank guard isn't there for the 99% of customers, he's there for that 1%. Likewise you don't prepare for the 99% of happy endings you prepare for that 1% of worst case events. You're also right that hounds are going out of their way to find & pick a fight which increases the risk over an LGD significantly. But you're dead wrong that bears can't flee a hound, if they couldn't there would be no chase in the first place. As for endurance, well that varies. In NC & VA bear is a red meat. Not every state has long training seasons & not every dogger keeps his dogs in good running trim. It also depends on the country you're running in. Neither dogs nor bears sweat, both pant to lose heat. Where I've run them, bears will run for a pond in the swamp when they get hot. The swim cools them off and the long fur holds a lot of water when they come out on the other side. Most dogs will swim after them, but after they get out their thin flat coats don't hold water & they heat back up faster. So yeah, some bears can and do outrun some dogs. Clearly your knowledge of dogging bears is limited by the fact your home state doesn't allow it. Go to other states and try it, you'll be surprised how many bear get clean away. While most bears will tree, you'd be surprised at the number that just stroll along all casual and slapping any dog get a chance at. They're called walking bears. They're worse than a bayed bear. The dogs get too bold and in each others way and catch a hard slap. No they don't sit around planning a fight, but like all critters when something isn't working they try something else & when something works they stick with it til it doesn't. The bear in PA that killed & ate the tied dog was a one off, but the jersey bears were repeat offenders. Either way they probably went in the yards after dog food or bird feeders and killed the dog because it was in the way. Only after killing the dog did they likely decide to eat it. In the case of the jersey bears, what worked once became a habit.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Well so far so good... I will def let you guys know if any problems arise (like I said I spent all last winter in ignorance that there were active bears in the woods behind our property, and we are the only ones around with a pack of 3 big dogs so hoping we continue to be hard targets)....


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

CAjerseychick said:


> Well so far so good... I will def let you guys know if any problems arise (like I said I spent all last winter in ignorance that there were active bears in the woods behind our property, and we are the only ones around with a pack of 3 big dogs so hoping we continue to be hard targets)....


You will probably be just fine your whole life there, but still:
Get bear spray, learn to use a gun, put in really good fencing, don't leave food out (to include road kill near the property), and learn to properly handle your trash


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## TedH71 (Jan 19, 2003)

There are tons of videos on Youtube showing bears being bayed on the ground by hounds..and some even of grizzlies being bayed. Plott hound was basically one of the best hounds bred for hunting bears. I would like to have one some day but staying with my catahoulas for now.


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## CAjerseychick (Aug 11, 2013)

Pops2 said:


> You will probably be just fine your whole life there, but still:
> Get bear spray, learn to use a gun, put in really good fencing, don't leave food out (to include road kill near the property), and learn to properly handle your trash


am torn on the bear spray-- someone said it was an attractant? But i guess having some on hand not to bad and idea--
and guns?
We are new to the area, DH was an orphan city boy (his family goes back to the Ellis's Ellis St downtown SF in the 1800's and they may have had guns back then, but they sure dont now)... no gun experience for me either...
so no idea how to get a gun-- do you just go pick one up at Walmart? Dont they require some training? DO they have a Guns for Dummies workshop somewhere? That seems like a big deal (and we have a precocious 10yr old too)...
Fencing, yes, looked at hotwire yesterday but more likely to get the movaeable fencing run off by a solar panel (we are getting goats)...

Trash is a work in progress-- we have a teething giant puppy and there are bones and chewed up things all over the back field (the dogs bury and unbury things constantly)...

At child's basketball game last night- yup all the people that dont have dogs are ... complaining about bears (I am going to ask them next game why they dont have dogs, seems alot easier than dealing with a hungry bear every trash night)....


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## Pops2 (Jan 27, 2003)

CAjerseychick said:


> am torn on the bear spray-- someone said it was an attractant? But i guess having some on hand not to bad and idea--
> and guns?
> We are new to the area, DH was an orphan city boy (his family goes back to the Ellis's Ellis St downtown SF in the 1800's and they may have had guns back then, but they sure dont now)... no gun experience for me either...
> so no idea how to get a gun-- do you just go pick one up at Walmart? Dont they require some training? DO they have a Guns for Dummies workshop somewhere? That seems like a big deal (and we have a precocious 10yr old too)...
> ...


Find the local Boy Scout, 4H or competitive shooting club. Someone teaches the kids & would likely be willing to teach you both. In addition to safety, you want to learn good marksmanship technique. The Marine Corps fundamentals of marksmanship can be found on you tube. Keep in mind it was designed to provide the best skills to the widest variety of people regardless of experience.


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